﻿
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2026-08-19</date>
    <parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 19 August 2026</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">DEPUTY </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Brockman</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
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      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Tabling</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  I table documents pursuant to statute as listed on the Dynamic Red.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">Full details of the documents are recorded in the </span>Journals of the Senate<span style="font-style:italic;">.</span></span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
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      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Meeting</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Proposals to meet have been lodged as follows:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee—</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) today, from 9.10 am.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
              <span class="HPS-Small">public meeting on Thursday, 20 August 2026, from 4.30 pm, to take evidence for the committee's inquiry into the Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) today, from 9.10 am.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Migration—Joint Standing Committee—private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) today, from 9.30 am, for the committee's inquiry into the value of skilled migration to Australia.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>1</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brockman, Sen Slade (The DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>30484</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="30484" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">09:01</span>):  If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7502" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>1</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:02</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>1</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:02</span>):  I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I move that this Bill be now read a second time. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill is the next step in our government's delivery of the most ambitious tax reform package for a quarter of a century. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's all about helping more people to buy their own home, cutting income taxes for workers again and again, and better aligning the treatment of labour and asset income. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's a package focused on delivering a better tax system for business by encouraging investment and innovation and delivering a simpler and more sustainable system as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill being introduced today delivers the next important part of our plan. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It backs Australian businesses and it helps them to succeed. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Our plan is good for workers, good for first home buyers and good for the millions of businesses that make such an important contribution to our economy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It introduces two-year loss carry-back to help encourage sensible risk taking and smooth out difficult periods, and makes the $20,000 instant asset write-off permanent to encourage investment and slash compliance costs. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">These measures go hand in hand with the steps announced last week, which are all about providing more clarity and confidence to investors, more support for small businesses and more incentives for innovation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We will extend the eligibility of the 50 per cent active asset capital gains tax reduction to more businesses by increasing the turnover threshold from $2 million to $10 million.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This means all 2.7 million active small businesses and 98 per cent of all active businesses will be eligible for generous CGT concessions.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And we are consulting on the design of a 50 per cent CGT discount for early-stage investors, including founders and employee share scheme participants of innovative start-up businesses. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Altogether, we are proposing over $3.8 billion in new measures that lower taxes for businesses, supporting new and growing businesses at critical stages in their life. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The reforms in this Bill support resilience, investment and sensible risk taking by Australian firms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 1 to the Bill amends the <span style="font-style:italic;">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997</span> to introduce loss carry-back for companies with annual global income of less than $1 billion from 1 July 2026. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It enables eligible companies to carry back a tax loss and offset it against tax paid up to two years earlier, generating a refundable tax offset.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 1 applies to revenue losses only and is subject to a company's franking account balance, ensuring refunds are appropriately limited to prior tax paid.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">OECD research shows that loss carry back is an effective policy to improve the neutrality of the tax system and increase the resilience of companies to adverse shocks.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">By allowing losses to be recognised against earlier profits, loss carry back will be particularly valuable for established businesses that have been profitable in recent years but experience a temporary downturn. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It will also support otherwise profitable small companies that incur a tax loss because they have invested in new assets, including those that are eligible for the permanently extended instant asset write-off. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is all about improving cash flow and helping firms remain resilient through periods of adjustment or broader economic shocks. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Loss carry back is expected to benefit up to 85,000 companies each year, mostly small businesses, with the largest impacts in construction, manufacturing, professional and scientific services, finance and insurance, and wholesale trade.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Government is making the instant asset write-off permanent to give small businesses the certainty they need and deserve.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This is all about backing small businesses, cutting compliance costs and helping them invest with confidence. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 2 to the Bill amends the <span style="font-style:italic;">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 </span>and the <span style="font-style:italic;">Income Tax (Transitional Provisions) Act 1997</span> to permanently extend the $20,000 instant asset write-off from 1 July 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Up to 4.1 million businesses with aggregated annual turnover of less than $10 million will be able to immediately deduct eligible assets costing less than $20,000 from 1 July 2026. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The $20,000 threshold will continue to apply on a per asset basis, so small businesses can instantly write-off multiple assets. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Assets costing $20,000 or more can be placed into the small business simplified depreciation pool and depreciated at 15 per cent in the first income year and 30 per cent each income year thereafter. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The lock-out rules, which prevent small businesses from re-entering the simplified depreciation regime for 5 years if they opt-out, will continue to be suspended until 30 June 2027 so that small businesses can take advantage of the measure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The permanent $20,000 instant asset write-off is estimated to reduce ongoing compliance costs for small business by around $32 million per year. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's part of our plan in the Budget to cut red tape and compliance costs by $10.2 billion a year. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 3 to the Bill provides an income tax exemption for income derived in respect of employment with the PNG Chiefs Limited, the new PNG-based National Rugby League franchise. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This exemption seeks to ensure that income tax exemptions legislated by the Papua New Guinea Government for players and staff of the PNG Chiefs Limited will operate as intended. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Schedule 3 is connected to the Government's broader strategy to listen and act on the priorities of our alliance partner and closest neighbour—Papua New Guinea—and support rugby league in the Pacific. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The establishment of a PNG team in the NRL is an important symbol of the deep partnership between Australia and PNG. This partnership is underpinned by shared strategic trust and commitment to delivering peace, prosperity and opportunity for the people of Papua New Guinea and Australia. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Introducing these arrangements as part of this Bill will provide certainty and support the effective administration of the tax arrangements PNG has put in place.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Finally, Schedule 4 to the Bill builds on the legislation to reform negative gearing and capital gains tax passed in June.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The amendments in Schedule 4 ensure a property owned on Budget night will retain access to negative gearing in certain circumstances.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">They ensure an individual can retain this treatment for an ownership interest in a property where:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">the property was acquired from a spouse through an inheritance or relationship breakdown; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-SmallBullet" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SmallBullet">someone inherits part or all of a property in which they already had an ownership share.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">They also ensure new builds will retain access to negative gearing and concessional capital gains tax treatment in the same circumstances. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">These are sensible changes and ones I hope this entire chamber can get behind. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">But they are changes that took an ambitious Labor government to introduce, and an ambitious Labor government to make permanent. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It was Labor that first introduced the instant asset write-off in 2011.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And it was Labor that introduced loss carry back at that time as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Disappointingly, these important measures to support business were unwound when the Coalition came to office.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It took those opposite years to realise what a mistake they made and bring these measures back, but even then, only temporarily.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Now, we're making both of these tax measures permanent—because Labor backs Australian businesses and is invested in helping them grow and get ahead.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That's what these measures are all about. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That's what our $3.8 billion in business tax relief is all about. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It's what our plan to create a more productive economy, to cut $10.2 billion of red tape, to grow GDP by $13 billion by working with the states, and to encourage innovation and risk-taking is all about. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We are proud of this Bill and we are proud of our ambitious tax reform package. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And that is why I commend the Bill to the Chamber.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>3</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
                <name.id>I0M</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:02</span>):  What an absolutely extraordinary capitulation by the Albanese government. After all the denials that we have heard from those opposite, after all of the excuses and after all of the arrogance, they are now voting to repeal the widows tax, which they said did not exist. Anthony Albanese has finally been dragged kicking and screaming to the position the coalition has been arguing for from the very, very beginning, before, in fact, this legislation was even rammed through the parliament by the Australian Labor Party with—don't you worry—the tail wagging the dog, the Australian Greens, who were salivating as it went through. We were telling the government, 'Get rid of Labor's widows tax.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Prime Minister was specifically told, prior to the legislation being rushed through, that this toxic tax package would impose a tax on widows, would impose a tax on divorcees and, shamefully, would impose a tax on those fleeing a violent relationship. But do you know what the Prime Minister of Australia did? Do you know what the Minister for Women did? Do you know what every single person in the Albanese government did? They voted to impose this tax. They legislated a tax on widows, they legislated a tax on divorcees and, shamefully, as I said, they legislated a tax on those fleeing a violent relationship. The Prime Minister of Australia legislated a tax change that punishes Australians at one of the most difficult periods of their lives. That's what he did—he taxed them. Worse, what did Prime Minister do as this legislation was rushed through and real life examples came forward and he and his government were finally exposed? What did the women on the front bench of Labor do when this tax was finally exposed and when they were questioned on this tax and the impact it was having in particular on women in Australia? Did they say, 'We got it wrong; we need to fix it'? Did they admit they made a mistake? No. They are on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> record time and time again denying that there was a problem. When they worked out it was actually true and they should have listened to the coalition when they raised these concerns, they tried to minimise the problem. When real life examples came forward of the impact of Labor's tax on them at this most difficult time in their lives, do you know what they then tried to do? They tried to explain the problem away.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think they were hoping that Australians would just not see through a tax on widows. Seriously, what a disgrace! What type of government is it that stands up and says, 'We champion women in Australia,' then knowingly votes for a tax on widows? What is worse—because again, history records this. The coalition introduced a bill and said to Labor: 'We will actually get rid of the tax you have imposed on widows. This is your opportunity to work with us to fix what you have done.' Do you know what Labor did? They voted against us. Let that sink in. On 29 June of this year, the coalition moved amendments to remove Labor's widows tax. Labor could have said then: 'We made a mistake. Taxing widows is wrong.' But, instead of fixing their mistake then and there and ensuring that particularly women in Australia were not subject to this distress at one of the most horrific times in their lives, Labor said no.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Worse are the Australian Greens. They almost sicken me when they stand up and say that they're champions of women. What a joke! They were salivating as the widows tax passed the parliament. So I'd say to the Australian people don't listen to the rewriting of history that those opposite will try and do today, because it is there in black and white on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> record. Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister of Australia, and every single Labor person in this place, including the Labor senators on the frontbench, were told that you were legislating a widows tax. You looked Australians in the eye and you said that you didn't care.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">You rushed this legislation through the parliament knowing the impact that it would have on some of the most vulnerable people in this country. You then denied there was a problem, and, worse, you sought to minimise it. Then, when presented with an opportunity done in good faith by the coalition to abolish this toxic, shameful tax, you didn't take it up. You didn't vote for it, and now here we are today. Why? Because the Leader of the Opposition, Angus Taylor, wasn't going to let you get away with that. He wasn't going to let you get away with knowingly legislating a tax on some of the most vulnerable people in this country, and, on behalf of Australians, he stood up to the Prime Minister. He called the Prime Minister out, and he told him he was wrong.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I said, you now have a capitulation and not one that the Prime Minister wanted to do. Let's make this very clear. The Labor Party have been dragged kicking and screaming to this position today, and they're going to stand up and tell you: 'We were consulting. We had to understand the impact of our tax. We knew that we would have to bring in amendment legislation to actually fix up some of the messes we created.' That's not good enough, because guess what? There was little to no consultation on what they are proud to say is a major reform to the taxation system in this country. So spare us your words when you stand up here today to say that you had to consult to get it right. You knew there was a problem. We told you there was a problem. We said we'd work with you to fix your problem. We even introduced a bill to do just that, and you laughed in the faces of Australians, particularly the widows, and you basically told them you didn't care.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But sadly, as Australians have come to know, that's the nature of the character of this prime minister. It's been on display now in relation to the podcast he did, in relation to the disgusting, crude comments he made about the female prime minister of Japan. It's on display with the Labor women standing up and saying, 'We'll defend our prime minister's crude and disgusting comments every step of the way.' It's amplified with Labor women voting knowingly to tax widows in this country and then standing up and saying, 'Don't look here, because really we actually champion the causes of women, except when it comes to knowingly legislating a tax on widows.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">You're capitulating today, and I have to say I welcome the capitulation. Welcome aboard, Prime Minister. It took you long enough, but the coalition has been clear. This tax should never have existed. Once its consequences became clear to the Prime Minister of Australia, you should have actually eaten a little bit of humble pie, and you should have come forward immediately and brought in the legislation to actually change it. But that is the pattern of behaviour Australians now see—deny, deflect, delay. And then, when none of that works, you get dragged kicking and screaming to what a solution is, but only when it's proposed by the coalition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Imagine the impact of this tax on people—people who have saved hard their whole lives. They've paid their taxes. They've saved. They may have bought an investment property, not because they're rich. They're just average Australians. They bought the investment property to provide some security in retirement. They have done exactly what governments tell them to do—work hard, save, and try and provide for yourselves in your retirement. And then tragedy happens. One partner dies. The surviving husband or wife is grieving. Their life has been turned upside down. And, because ownership of that property changes, the widows tax, knowingly legislated by the Prime Minister and all of the Labor women, potentially now changes the tax treatment of that asset. That's why it's known as the widows tax. That is the problem that Labor knowingly legislated.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So Labor can't stand here today and now say, 'There was never really a problem,' because if there's no widows tax, as you kept on telling us, what exactly are you now repealing today? If there's nothing wrong with your legislation, why are you changing it? The coalition is supposedly playing politics. Why have the Treasurer and the Prime Minister now adopted the coalition's position? That's because the answer is obvious. Labor got caught. They rushed through their massive tax changes with little to no consultation. They clearly had no clue about the actual real-life impact on the ground of some of the most vulnerable people in Australia. Even when the impact was raised directly with them, they basically looked Australians in the eye and said: 'We actually don't care. We're going to legislate anyway.' And that is exactly what they did. They rushed through a massive tax change. They didn't understand the consequences, but worse still—and this is where it's so shameful—they didn't listen when those consequences were identified. They rushed them through instead.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is what happens when a prime minister attacks aspiration. This is what happens when a prime minister attacks Australians just trying to build financial security. This is what happens when a prime minister knowingly misleads Australians—he gaslights them—over 50 times prior to an election. At that press conference a journalist said, 'Will you rule out changes to negative gearing and capital gains?' and the Prime Minister—it's there for all to see—snaps at the journalist and, in his own words, says, 'For the 50th time.' Well, for the 50th time, Prime Minister, it's not good enough. It's not good enough that you gaslighted Australians. It's not good enough that you say, 'Well, actually, now that we've consulted.' Now that you've had real-life Australians that have been impacted by your changes at the most vulnerable time in their lives come forward, suddenly you've woken up. You made a mistake. That is just not good enough.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition's position has been very simple from the beginning. This was hurting Australians. You needed to axe it. The legislation had unfair consequences. You should never have passed it. You knew it had unfair consequences and you refused to fix it. So I have to say I welcome the capitulation by the Prime Minister today. It doesn't go nearly far enough, quite frankly. Our commitment to the Australian people—we'll take this all the way to the election, and if we're elected, we'll implement it—is that we are going to axe all of Labor's toxic taxes because we believe in aspiration. We believe in the Australian people. We believe in you getting out there and doing what you can every day to actually have a fair go and perhaps build some wealth to plan properly for your retirement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sadly, that's not Anthony Albanese's record. Anthony Albanese's record as the Prime Minister of Australia and Labor's record—they'll stand up shortly to try and defend their actions—is that they legislated a widows tax. That's on you and the Australian Greens. That's on you. You legislated a widows tax. You knowingly legislated pain on the Australian people. A widow should never have to worry that Canberra is waiting with a tax consequence when their husband dies or when their wife dies. Yes, we welcome the humiliating capitulation by Anthony Albanese today after all the denials, all the excuses, all the arrogance, and after knowingly taxing the most vulnerable Australians at the most terrible time of their life. Even if today the vote will go through, that's something you will need to live with.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>5</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Darmanin, Sen Lisa</name>
                <name.id>301128</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="301128" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DARMANIN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:17</span>):  The Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026 represents the next stage of the government's ambitious tax reform agenda. Rather than rewrite history, as Senator Cash has just said we were doing, I would like to take the opportunity in this debate to focus on some of the other important schedules that this bill covers that were neglected in the contribution that we just heard from Senator Cash, which was laden with hyperbole which focused solely on schedule 4.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As part of the government's 2026-27 budget tax reform package, this bill does contain three other measures designed to support investment, strengthen business and resilience, and advance important national priorities. The bill includes schedule 1, which introduces a two-year loss carry-back tax offset; schedule 2, which makes the $20,000 instant asset write-off permanent for eligible small businesses; schedule 3, which provides an income tax exemption for players and staff associated with the PNG Chiefs; and, as you just heard some discussion about, schedule 4, which ensures that certain properties that are owned on budget night will retain access to negative gearing in some circumstances.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Taken together, these measures help deliver a better tax system for business, encourage investment and innovation, and support a simpler and more sustainable tax system. These reforms, as we know, sit within a broader agenda focused on helping more people buy their own home, cutting income taxes for workers again and better aligning the tax treatment of labour and asset income. These reforms are part of a broader effort of our government to reshape Australia's tax system for the future. We want a tax system that makes it easier for Australians to get ahead, not one that locks younger generations out of homeownership or discourages productive investment. That means that we need to create a fairer balance between the taxation of labour and assets, reducing unnecessary complexity and ensuring that the system supports growth, productivity and opportunity. This bill takes another important step in that direction.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The first schedule introduces a two-year loss carry-back tax offset. This measure is about helping businesses manage uncertainty, navigate difficult periods and recover more quickly from setbacks, and it is a practical reform that responds to the real-world needs of Australian businesses. Businesses do not always operate in straight lines, as we know. Industries experience disruption. Companies invest and take risks and sometimes face periods where losses arise before growth and profitability return. The loss carry-back measure recognises that reality. At its core it's about improving cash flow and helping businesses remain resilient through periods of adjustment or broader economic shocks.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">By allowing eligible companies to carry losses back against previous taxable profits, businesses can access support when they need it most. Importantly, this measure is expected to benefit more than 85,000 companies annually. It encourages businesses to be able to take those sensible risks while providing a practical mechanism to help businesses remain viable during challenging periods. Businesses that can weather difficult conditions are more likely to keep investing, retain workers and continue contributing to their local communities. And there is strong support for this reform. Business groups, including the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, the Business Council of Australia and the Housing Industry Association have recognised the role it can play in improving cash flow, strengthening resilience and supporting business investment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The second schedule makes the $20,000 instant asset write-off permanent. This is a really significant reform. Up to 4.1 million businesses with aggregated turnover of less than $10 million per annum will be able to immediately deduct eligible assets costing less than $20,000 from 1 July 2026. This bill provides a permanent framework that gives businesses confidence when making investment decisions. The $20,000 threshold will continue to apply on a per asset basis, meaning eligible businesses can instantly write off multiple assets. For assets costing $20,000 or more, businesses will still be able to access the small-business simplified depreciation pool, depreciating those assets at 15 per cent in the first income year and 30 per cent in each income year after that. The bill also continues the suspension of the lockout rules until 30 June 2027. These rules currently prevent small businesses from re-entering the simplified depreciation regime for five years if they opt out. Their ongoing suspension ensures businesses can continue to access the arrangements that best meets their needs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We are making it less complex for small businesses to do what they do best and just get on with it. The instant asset write-off forms part of the government's broader commitment to reduce red tape and compliance costs by $10.2 billion annually. It is estimated to reduce ongoing compliance costs for small businesses by around $32 million every single year. At the moment, the instant asset write-off threshold is just $1,000. This government increased that threshold to $20,000, and we are making it permanent. That means greater certainty, less paperwork and stronger incentives for businesses to invest in productive assets.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, stakeholders have strongly backed this reform. The Business Council of Australia stated:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Making the instant asset write-off permanent and delivering loss carry back are useful steps for small- and medium-sized businesses and will help businesses invest, grow and create jobs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">CPA Australia described the measure as:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… a critical step toward giving small businesses the certainty that they have long been calling for.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">PwC similarly welcomed the reform, observing 'the instant asset write-off is no longer a moving target' and that small businesses 'now have a more stable basis on which to plan investment in productive assets'. The Housing Industry Association also highlighted the benefits for builders and trades, noting that these measures will improve certainty and financial resilience across the sector. When business groups, tax professionals and industry representatives all point to the benefits of greater certainty, reduced compliance and stronger incentives to invest, it is clear that this is a reform that is worth supporting. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Now I want to turn to the third schedule. Schedule 3 provides an income tax exemption for players and staff associated with the PNG Chiefs. This measure forms part of a much broader partnership between Australia and Papua New Guinea and reflects the important role that sport can play in bringing people together. The Albanese Labor government has committed $250 million over 10 years to the Pacific Rugby League Partnership. This forms part of a broader $600 million investment that includes support for a Papua New Guinea team, now known as the PNG Chiefs, to enter the NRL competition by 2028. It also includes investments designed to strengthen rugby league participation across Papua New Guinea, Fiji, Samoa and Tonga. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This partnership is so much more than the game. It includes expanding youth engagement and violence prevention programs to reach more communities and establishing primary and high school competitions across Papua New Guinea, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. It includes programs to promote girls' participation in rugby league, and it includes building men's and women's national competitions across a range of age groups while continuing to support Pacific Championships matches and identifying opportunities for NRL and NRLW matches to be played throughout the region. All of this—the partnership and initiatives—helps build pathways in education, in leadership and in employment, strengthen communities and create great opportunities. It also strengthens relationships between Australia and our Pacific neighbours. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sport, as we know, has a unique ability to connect people in a way that few other things can. While the direct beneficiaries of the tax exemption are the players and the staff of the PNG chiefs, the broader benefits extend far beyond the team. This measure is one part of a wide partnership designed to strengthen regional relationships and support long-term community development. Papua New Guinea is making a substantial contribution to this partnership. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">To ensure that Australia does not inadvertently undermine that contribution through the operation of domestic tax law, this bill provides a targeted exemption for PNG Chiefs players and staff. The exemption helps support the success of the team, which in turn contributes to the success of the broader partnership and grassroots development programs connected to it. The Prime Minister of Papua New Guinea, the honourable James Marape, has been a champion of this project. In a country with more than 800 different language groups and cultures, he has recognised the power of sport as a common language capable of bringing people together and building national pride around one team and one nation. That vision and pride shines through this partnership.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's go to schedule 4. The amendments in schedule 4, as I said earlier, ensure a property owned on budget night will retain access to negative gearing in certain circumstances. They ensure that an individual can retain this treatment for an ownership interest in a property where the property was acquired from a spouse through an inheritance or relationship breakdown or where someone inherits part or all of a property in which they already had an ownership share. They also ensure new builds will retain access to negative gearing and concessional capital gains tax treatment in the same circumstances. The government released drafts of these amendments for consultation on 4 August, reflecting our intention to consult on the more complex aspects of these reforms. Our intention had been to progress this legislation as a priority following the consultation process. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, I would like to acknowledge the work of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee in its examination of this bill. As chair of the committee, I'd like to thank all of the individuals and organisations who contributed to the inquiry, whether through written submissions or by appearing before the committee to provide evidence. Their contributions assisted the committee in its consideration of these important reforms. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The second tranche of the government's budget tax reform is a set of practical measures that will help businesses invest, grow and remain resilient. But, as we know, it's part of something bigger. The governments' agenda recognises that our tax settings should work for people, support investment and productivity and help more Australians achieve the security that comes from owning a home. We are making it easier for Australians to buy a home. We are delivering tax cuts for workers. We are creating a fairer balance between the taxation of Labor and assets. We are building a tax system that supports productive investment rather than complexity and loopholes. I commend this bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>7</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bell, Sen Sean</name>
                <name.id>319142</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="319142" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">One Nation Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:30</span>):  Why are we here today? We're here today, again, to fix a mistake from this hapless Albanese Labor government. We're here today to fix their widow tax that they legislated after everyone told them not to. We all said: 'Your legislation is flawed, and in your rush to implement a big tax grab on the Australian people you're making a terrible mistake.' We warned you over and over again; you did it anyway. You rushed the legislation through, and now we're having to clean up the mess. People are dealing with the consequences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I was listening to Senator Darmanin's speech—through you, Acting Deputy President—and I was very interested as to when they would get to the part where they would address the mistake, the widow tax. I believe we got to that when Senator Darmanin said that changes are being implemented to correct an issue where people lose their negative gearing tax exemptions in certain circumstances. I think that's what the senator said. Those certain circumstances she's talking about are people dying. That's the certain circumstance that Labor is talking about. They're talking about divorce. That is the certain circumstance that they're referring to. If someone dies and they have a wife or a husband, the legislation that Labor put in meant they would lose a tax exemption that would be grandfathered in. That is the certain circumstance that we are here today to fix.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Divorce. That's another certain circumstance, as Labor puts it, that we are here to deal with. We all warned you that your legislation would essentially be increasing taxes on people getting divorced. We all knew this, and you did it anyway. Let us think about that. They drafted the legislation, they introduced the legislation, they defended the legislation, and then despite being told what they were about to do—what everyone knew they were going to do—they passed it anyway. And it wasn't passed in an orderly process. They passed it like we're doing to this legislation today. A motion was moved in the Senate to limit debate, to limit scrutiny and to rush it through. It's probably because they would hope that people didn't pick up on their mistakes. How else can you treat their actions? People rush things through and limit debate because they want to limit scrutiny because they want to get away with making mistakes or sneaking things through. Again, we're doing it again today.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This legislation that we're actually dealing with, the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026—the fix for the widow tax wasn't initially in this legislation. That was added in, and I suspect they've picked this bill because they desperately needed a Treasury laws amendment on which to attach this fix. They had to find a solution. They knew they'd screwed up. So they've picked this one and said, 'We'll shoot that up the list and rush that through too.' Then, as part of the process for fixing the mistakes they caused by rushing everything through and trying to hide scrutiny, they've done a guillotine with many more bills attached to it, which are all going to be dealt with without debate and without scrutiny. One has to wonder: Why are we doing it again? Why are we doing it like this? Why are we shutting down debate and blocking scrutiny? As we have seen with this legislation and with the widow tax, when you do this, Labor makes mistakes. In their rush to grab your taxes—their desperation—they literally legislated a version of a death tax. That is what they have done. Today, we are here trying to fix it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's look closely at this. The legislation they put in meant that, when somebody had a relationship change—a partner dies tragically or they get divorced—exemptions that exist for everyone else on their property would be eliminated because they were going to count that as the property changing hands. This is not some obscure circumstance that could not have been anticipated. We know that because, I'll say it again, we all warned you that it was going to happen. People pass away, properties pass between spouses, marriages end, assets are transferred, and yet the Labor Party, writing the laws of the Commonwealth, managed to create a situation where the death of a husband or wife left the surviving spouse with a tax bill. It's something so horrendous that only this Labor government could have thought that was a good idea and could have sat down, written the bill, debated the bill, defended the bill and then voted on the bill. They voted for their widow tax. The undertaker does their job, and then Jim Chalmers started his. That was the plan. Now we are here, back in parliament, trying to put that band-aid over the bullet wound that Labor shot into the economy. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This tells us almost everything that we need to know about the Albanese Labor government's economic competence. They start with the ideology. They start with the plan to grab those taxes so they can spend them on their preferred ideological goals, regardless of who pays it. They just need the money in the budget. Then you rush the legislation, you hide the scrutiny, and then, if someone manages to pick up on the mistake or the trick that you've played, you'll go: 'We can deal with those consequences later, and we'll continue to gaslight the Australian people. Perhaps we won't talk about the fact we legislated a death tax or a divorce tax. We'll just refer to people dying or getting divorced as a "certain circumstance".' It's just typical Labor spin. Imagine trying to diminish a person passing away, one of the most horrible things that can occur in someone's life, when their partner dies, and then just trying to claim that it's a 'certain circumstance'—geez! </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then we've got the further consequences just beyond that. Beyond a relationship, you have the consequences to the economy at large. When Labor does this, the consequences are very severe. It creates a huge amount of uncertainty. When Labor is forced to amend or recall defective economic policy, it's the Australian public who pays. Its businesses. It's individuals. Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers have been running this country into the ground for years. They're running out of people to blame their mistakes on. Soon, they'll have to look in the mirror and realise that the only people they should be blaming are themselves. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's just reflect again on the sheer level of incompetence required to produce the result that we are here fixing today—passing legislation that failed to take into account the fact that people die and properties pass to spouses, failed to take into account the fact that marriages end, and assets get transferred. These are not bizarre hypotheticals or 'certain circumstances', as Labor might like to refer to them. Yet Labor has passed its laws, defended its laws, and now here we are, back again, rushing to fix them. This is what happens when political objectives come first and competent legislation and competent process come second. This is what happens when the Albanese Labor government treats Australian money as their own personal piggy bank, where they are desperate to do whatever it takes for them to grab an ever-increasing chunk of it. It is not your money. It is the Australian people's money. The disregard that you have for the hard work that the Australian people do to earn that money—with your failure of due care and your failure of process—is quite shameful. Just look at how hard those opposite defended the indefensible, and they constantly do it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's look at Labor's housing policy. They keep talking about how they're spending more and more money, they keep announcing funds and schemes, and yet prices keep going up. Let's look at the broader consequences of the big tax grab in their budget. Let's look at what they said in their budget. The Albanese Labor government told Australians that the effect of these rushed changes they are putting through, which included the widow tax, would be that rents would not increase by more than $2 a week. They said that in their budget. Yet what do we see? NAB modelling came out and warned that rents could rise by 20 to 30 per cent under this legislation. Immediately, the Albanese government rushed out trying to discredit them but, unfortunately, we have seen real estate bodies come out and say, 'No, it's very likely.' We actually can see in Jim Chalmers's own electorate, Rankin, that some properties are already increasing rents by close to 30 per cent. One example I saw was a $240 increase in rent—after you said in your budget that the effects on rent would be less than $2 a week. If you were wrong about the widow tax, I think you're also wrong about this. I think the effects we're going to see on rent from your rushed tax grab will be terrible.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's budget also said that its tax changes—this tax grab that included the widow tax—would actually not drop the price of housing. In your budget, you said that housing prices would continue to grow, just at a slower rate, and yet what have we seen? Prices are dropping across the country. Labor are now arguing the merits of the price drop as opposed to arguing the fact that their budget was wrong. The budget said that house prices would continue to grow, just at a slower rate, but we are seeing the price of housing go down. So the question is: did you know that was going to be the effect? Did you know that was going to happen? Did you mislead the Australian people, or did you get it wrong, just like you got the widow tax wrong? How soon will it be before we are back in this place having to fix those mistakes as well? You said that rents would be going up by $2 a week. They're going up more. You said that the price of housing wouldn't go down. It's going down. You said that you weren't doing a widow tax, but you did one. We are here having to fix your mistakes and, unfortunately for the Australian people, I think we're going to be here often, having to fix these mistakes for a very long time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While Labor are fiddling with tax settings and announcing housing deals, you continue to add extraordinary population demand to the housing market. If people think back in time, prior to the first Albanese government, you actually promised to cut immigration. You actually said immigration would be lower, yet you delivered, I think, the record for net immigration in Australian history. Then, when you start to slowly wind that back from its record peak—though it's still extremely high—you ask for credit, 'Give us credit for reducing net migration,' from, I think, over 500,000 people a year to something close to net 350,000 as you try to get towards net 250,000. Again, if we're talking about mistakes, if we're talking about misleading budget figures, nothing has been more wrong than your continued failure to predict immigration figures. Every single budget, you have completely blown past your immigration targets. Your failure to manage some of these economic laws is only rivalled by your failure to manage our immigration system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then we have to come back and fix it, and then, in the process of fixing it, you move a guillotine, you rush things through and you have a compounding effect—bad legislation, a rushed process and mistakes fixed with more legislation in a rushed way. We're not going to have appropriate time to go through and do a proper committee stage on half of these things. We'll do our best. But that's not your intention. Your intention is to take away our time. Your intention is to rush things through. It's hard to say what mistakes are going to be laid within the further tranches of legislation that are coming this week, but I'm sure they'll be there, and I'm sure it won't be long before we're all back here in this place arguing again about how to fix the mistakes you have made. I think the Australian people deserve significantly better than this. They also deserve the truth. We're not here dealing with certain circumstances; we are here dealing with the fact that you legislated a tax on widows and legislated a tax on divorces. It's not good enough.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>9</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chandler, Sen Claire</name>
                <name.id>264449</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="264449" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHANDLER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:45</span>):  Every government says that it supports small business, but the real test is whether the policies of that government give business the confidence to invest. That is the test that we in the coalition have applied to the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to be very clear: the coalition will be supporting this bill. But those opposite shouldn't be smiling too broadly, because the evidence before the Senate economics committee inquiry into this bill, in which I participated, was very clear: while Australian small businesses welcome the measures in this bill, many believe that they do not go far enough, and that, particularly given the broader impact of this government's budget, more support is required for our business sector. If you speak to small businesses today—we heard from many of them during the committee inquiry, and I speak to many in my home state of Tasmania—the overwhelming feeling at the moment is not one of confidence; it is caution, it is uncertainty, and, increasingly, it is a concern from businesses that survival is becoming more and more difficult. Business owners are asking themselves simple questions: can I afford to invest? Can I afford to hire? Can I afford to grow? The answer depends, largely, on whether government policy settings make those decisions easier or harder.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition supports this bill because it contains measures that improve cash flow, encourage investment and provide some certainty to businesses around the investment environment that they find themselves in. But we also believe that this bill can and should be stronger. Anyone who has run a small business knows that success is rarely a straight line. Markets change, costs rise, demand fluctuates and challenges emerge. That doesn't mean a business has failed; it just means a business is operating in the real world. That is why the coalition supports the loss carry-back provisions in schedule 1 of this bill. These measures recognise that one difficult year shouldn't wipe away years of hard work, investment and success. They improve cash flow when businesses need it most, and they are a sensible reform that the coalition is pleased to support.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Every government, like I say, says it wants businesses to invest and to grow. The question is whether government policies are actually encouraging them to do so, because when businesses invest, they grow. When businesses grow, they create jobs and employ more Australians. When more Australians are in work, communities prosper. That is why the most significant part of this bill is the instant asset write-off, which will support many Australian businesses to make more certain decisions around investing in assets for their business. The certainty around making the instant asset write-off permanent is welcome; indeed, we heard that through the Senate committee inquiry.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Small businesses shouldn't be in a position where they're having to wait until every May, when we come into this place and hand down a federal budget, to find out whether a sensible investment incentive like the instant asset write-off will be extended for another year. Business owners need to plan ahead. They need confidence. They need certainty, and making the instant asset write-off permanent will provide them with that confidence and that certainty year on year.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">While we in the coalition believe that making the write-off permanent is the right decision, we also believe that the government has set the threshold for the instant asset write-off far too low. The committee heard consistent evidence during the Senate inquiry that the $20,000 threshold no longer reflects the real cost of productive business assets in today's economy. COSBOA, ACCI, CPA Australia and HIA all raised concerns about the adequacy of that threshold. Like I say, while the coalition has long supported a higher threshold, the government has chosen to proceed with a $20,000 limit, and I think that reflects a misunderstanding of how much business costs have changed. $20,000 doesn't get you anywhere near as far as it used to, and the types of assets that we want businesses to be investing in to increase their productivity often exceed that $20,000 limit. Like I say, business costs have changed, and investment incentives need to reflect that. They should encourage businesses to invest and to grow and to create jobs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government says that it wants businesses to be in a position to invest, and the coalition agrees with that, but the evidence before the committee was very clear: a higher threshold would make a real difference to business investment, particularly to small-business investment in relation to that instant asset write-off. $20,000 simply doesn't buy what it did 10 years ago. Ask any tradie pricing a new work vehicle or a manufacturer upgrading their machinery, a construction business investing in equipment or any small business seeking to modernise through technology. The kinds of assets that genuinely improve productivity often cost well above the government's proposed threshold of $20,000. If the government's objective is to drive investment and productivity, that threshold should reflect the real-world cost of productive assets in 2026 not the cost of what those assets might have been a decade ago. The question isn't whether $20,000 helps. I'm not here saying that it doesn't. Certainly, the evidence that we heard in the committee heard was that it does. The question is whether $20,000 is good enough. A permanent write-off is good policy. A permanent write off of $50,000, noting that that is coalition policy, would be even better.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Just as importantly, good tax reform should provide certainty. Australians should be able to understand and navigate through the rules, plan for the future and have confidence that their tax system will operate fairly. This is an issue that we traversed significantly when the first stage of these tax reforms, tax reform No. 1 bill, came through this Senate before the winter break. As we heard through the debate around that bill which has now come into law, unfortunately, certainty has not always been the case with this Labor government's broader tax agenda. A clear example of this has become known as the widows tax.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians have now spent more than 90 days waiting for Labor to fix a problem of its own making. Let's be very clear about what happened here. It took the government far longer, I suspect, than 90-plus days to create this problem. After all, it was the Labor government that designed and developed the policy. When concerns were raised regarding this problem, Labor promptly dismissed them. Stakeholders were warning the government. We were warning the government here in this chamber and outside. The consequences of this widows tax were identified before the legislation was even introduced. But the Labor government guillotined debate, particularly in relation to number the tax reform No. 1 bill—and we can argue the same thing is happening here today—and forced that bill through the parliament anyway. Do you remember what happened next? Do you remember what happened when the tax reform No. 1 bill passed this chamber? Those opposite celebrated. They applauded. They congratulated themselves on the passage of this legislation. I wonder whether they're going to be quite as enthusiastic here today when the vote to unwind part of that legislation passes this place. I wonder whether those opposite will be quite as eager to celebrate the repeal of the widows tax as they were to celebrate its passage.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The problem wasn't that the Labor government didn't know or understand the consequences of what they were doing. The problem was that the government, frankly, wouldn't listen to concerns that were being raised. Now they have scrambled to fix the very problem that they spent months denying even existed, and not because they've suddenly discovered the problem. Let's be very frank about this. The reason that we are debating this legislation, as amended, here in this chamber today is not because the government suddenly woke up and realised that there was a problem. It's because the problem became impossible to ignore due to the advocacy of many people in this place and many people outside this chamber as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's be very clear. The people caught up in the mess of this seemingly inadvertent tax are widows. They are people going through a divorce. They are people trying to leave violent relationships. They are Australians dealing with some of the toughest moments that life can throw at them. This government spent weeks and weeks and weeks telling Australians that there wasn't a problem, while Australians were living with the consequences. They are now moving to fix what they were warned about from day one. That is welcome. We welcome this fix. I'm sure those opposite will hail this as a success, but we call it something else. We call it a policy backdown. I think there was every intention from this government that this tax should continue, and the only reason that it has made this fix here today is the attention that has been brought to it by many inside and outside this chamber.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In concluding my remarks on this legislation, it was very clear through the Senate Economics Legislation Committee inquiry into this bill and through the broader advocacy of the small business community in this country since the budget was handed down in May that businesses aren't looking for special treatment. All they want to see is common sense, certainty, a fair playing field when it comes to operating their business and policies that reflect the economic reality of what they are dealing with. That is why the coalition is supportive of the measures contained in this bill. The loss carry-back provisions are about resilience. The instant asset write-off is about investment and certainty of investment. Both are a move in the right direction. But the evidence before the economics committee was very clear—Australian businesses are looking for something more. They are looking for a broader agenda from government that encourages investment, rewards enterprise and supports productivity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This government needs to take that message seriously. The government also needs to take seriously the lessons of the widows tax debacle. Listen to businesses, listen to stakeholders and listen to the warnings. Don't wait almost 100 days before fixing up your own mess. When governments stop listening, Australians end up paying the price. Small businesses pay the price, families pay the price and confidence throughout the economy suffers. Australian families and Australian businesses deserve far better than that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>11</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Duniam, Sen Jonathon</name>
                <name.id>263418</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="263418" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DUNIAM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">09:58</span>):  We are truly a hot ticket today with the amount of people that have come to observe debate in this place. As I rise to speak to the Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026, I find myself asking whether what happened here was intentional or whether it was an oversight, especially when it comes to matters related to the so-called widows tax, which, thankfully, we have seen the government pivot on as a result of a sustained campaign by the opposition and, frankly, by the community around bad policy. This policy was punitive, this policy was in no way humane, and this policy, I'm fearful, was designed to hurt vulnerable Australians, all in the name of something this government is renowned for, and that is tax grabs. They were looking for money to prop up a budget that is beset by bad management and overexpenditure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a government that has not been able to rein in its bloated expenditure and has not been able to find the discipline required to manage the books in this country. Instead of reducing expenditure, they find ways to take other people's money. This very cynical attempt at doing that was something they were caught out on, something that Australians noticed and that we, as an opposition, proudly railed against—with support from the crossbench. To that question: was this intentional or was it incompetence? Was it something they overlooked and was not intended? Either way, it is a very alarming set of events to have occurred for a government that is supposed to be in charge and doing the right thing by the people of Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">All of this is happening against the backdrop of an economic crisis in this country. We've already heard others talk in this debate to some of the issues faced by Australians as a result of this government's policies. While there is somewhat of a reprieve in parts of this bill—and we'll come to those details shortly—it is worth revisiting some of those things Australians are experiencing right now. Let's start with what's happening to Australian homeowners. Let's start by looking at what's happening to first home buyers. Let's start by considering what experts are telling us about the rental market in this country, and the response by this government. The denial that there is an issue when it comes to house prices—and, therefore, the value of the most secure and stable asset most Australians will ever own going through the floor—and pretending that there is no issue here, and that it's a correction and something to be celebrated, is alarming. As a result of government policy, people's No. 1 asset—in most cases, their homes—has seen a massive dip.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When we're seeing auction clearance rates plummet, when we're seeing the number of houses brought to market similarly plummet, when we are being told this by experts and banks like the NAB—backed in by real estate agencies and Australia's largest property management agency, Ray White—you get this concern outlined that rental prices are going to increase by 30 per cent. That is something Australian households cannot afford. When prices are going down, people are not going to be selling their assets if they don't have to; they're going to get less than they want for the asset they're seeking to sell. This is as a result of government policy. Was this the intention or not? I've heard government ministers having a bet each way—that they want to bring down house prices but then running away from that claim when confronted by members of the press gallery on whether what we are seeing is as a result of government policy. I assert that it is. I assert that the economic carnage we are seeing inflicted upon Australian households is precisely that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Back to the elements of this bill. Against that backdrop of economic carnage, of Australian communities being let down by this government, which has no capacity to manage our budget, no capacity to grow the economy, no capacity to rein in its expenditure—it is frankly gobsmacking. The widows tax, as Senator Chandler rightly pointed out, was a tax that would have penalised people who lost a partner—a widow or widower—and who, through the transfer of an asset, would have been pinged by Labor's approach to this tax. The exemptions previously available to this cohort of people no longer exist. This bill changes that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill wasn't coming. We were told by government ministers that this was not an issue, that it was something we were running a scare campaign on. But the facts bear out. The biggest fact of all, the fact that the government have backflipped, demonstrates that this was an issue all along and that that denial, that pretence that this was not an issue, was completely false—and they knew it all along. The fact they were willing to consult on this and take as long as they did demonstrates that they knew there was an issue. But I guess we'll never get to the bottom of whether this government knew what it was doing or was completely incompetent and out at sea on this issue, penalising widows across the country or people who are going through that terrible life-changing event of a divorce or escaping domestic violence, penalising these people who are going through something they don't have a choice in—and attracting a higher rate of tax on the transfer of an asset because of the dissolution of a relationship. How is that a government with heart? How is that compassion? How is that anything that is good for the Australian community? It's not. It's a blatant tax grab. It was this government coming after your money hoping no-one would notice—hoping that no-one would see—that this was the intention of its policy. They hoped that, under the cover of a big budget, which had a lot of terrible measures in it, people wouldn't notice it. But, unfortunately for this government, it was spotted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">People across the country saw exactly what was going on here, and I am proud of my colleagues for having sustained a campaign to call on the government to wheel back this punitive set of taxes, to make the changes necessary and to restore some humanity to the budget for vulnerable communities in this country—people that, frankly, should not have had to experience this. Again, I have a question that remains outstanding and that is: did this government intend to do this or was it an oversight? Either way, shame on this government. I commend Angus Taylor, the Leader of the Opposition, for sustaining this campaign to bring about change, and I do therefore commend the bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>12</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:05</span>):  I thank senators who have contributed to the debate this morning. The Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Reform No. 2) Bill 2026 is a good bill to get done and have passing the Senate this week, and we're very pleased to have been able to facilitate the passage of this legislation. It is one of those rare moments when the Senate comes together and is able to deal with an issue like this—or a number of issues, actually, that are contained in this bill. As others have commented on through the debate this morning, this was a series of amendments that we were consulting on which were due to be reported on 21 August. It is unusual tax law reform and, as we said from the beginning of this process, we will be dealing with subsequent pieces of legislation in tranches—and that is exactly how Treasury has gone about this work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But, with the agreement of the Senate to do something quickly, which is quite unlike the Senate in most instances, the government is very happy to have taken the opportunity presented to make sure that we can deal with this bill this session. I would like to thank not only those who have contributed in this debate but also the Treasurer and his team and the Treasury officials who ensured that the TLAB 2 bill arrived in this Senate on time and that we were able to deal not just with the amendment that people have focused on today but also other elements of the bill. That is a great outcome because this continues to progress the tax reforms that we included in our budget. I know there's a lot of concentration on one element, but there are also all of the other elements, including around the instant asset write-off, the loss carry-back and all of those measures that form part of a much bigger and much more ambitious tax reform agenda than any recent government has put forward. It is also a budget that seeks to balance a whole range of reforms, many of which haven't had much analysis post-budget. There has been a lot of focus, obviously, on capital gains tax and negative gearing—and I'm sure we'll continue to discuss trusts as well as the legislation around trusts progresses—but other elements of the tax reform measures haven't had the scrutiny that those elements have. In fact, we were very pleased that the Senate Economics Legislation Committee had already reported and provided some recommendations, one of which we were able to pick up from the coalition—recommendation 4—which was to amend to deal with the issue around transfer of ownership in certain situations, and that has been able to be dealt with in this bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I thank those who have contributed to this debate. I welcome the passage of this, and I know the Treasurer and the PM also welcome the passage of this bill. It's another step forward in delivering on comprehensive tax reform work that was included in the budget in May. There will be further legislation to come, and I can only dream and hope that it passes the Senate as smoothly as this bill is passing the Senate this morning. Perhaps we can deliver that, and I will be one very happy repping minister in this chamber.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Limitation of Debate</title>
            <page.no>12</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Limitation of Debate</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>12</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">10:10</span>):  Pursuant to order, the time allocated for debate on this bill has expired. I will put the question before the chair and then put the questions on the remaining stages of the bill. The question is that this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question now is that the bill be now read a third time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a third time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>12</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, National Self-exclusion Register (Cost Recovery Levy) Amendment Bill 2026, Interactive Gambling (Cost Recovery Levy) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>13</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7520" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7521" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Self-exclusion Register (Cost Recovery Levy) Amendment Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7534" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Interactive Gambling (Cost Recovery Levy) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>13</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills received from the House of Representatives.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>13</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>13</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>13</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, and I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That these bills be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">es</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;"> read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">INTERACTIVE GAMBLING AMENDMENT (GAMBLING REFORM) BILL 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill delivers a significant package of reforms to reduce gambling harm in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">When the Government introduced this legislation in the House of Representatives, it did so with three clear objectives: to reduce <span style="text-decoration:none underline;">children</span><span style="text-decoration:none underline;">'</span><span style="text-decoration:none underline;">s</span> exposure to gambling advertising, reduce the targeting and saturation of wagering advertising, and strengthen protections to reduce gambling-related harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill has since been considered through the Senate inquiry process and by the House of Representatives. The government thanks the Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, as well as stakeholders, regulators, industry participants, public health experts, community organisations and people with lived experience of gambling harm who contributed to that inquiry and to the broader development of this Bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In parallel, our National Conference unanimously backed these reforms and supported considering further measures to tackle the harm caused by inducements.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We have also worked constructively to identify sensible improvements that would strengthen the legislation without undermining its practical operation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Albanese Labor Government has achieved bipartisan agreement with the Coalition to progress these reforms. On behalf of the Government, Minister for Communications and Minister for Sport, I thank the Coalition and Senator Henderson for their support to see these reforms become law.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">As a result of this bipartisan agreement, the Bill has been amended to build on the reforms originally introduced by the government in the House of Representatives. These amendments tighten advertising protections, improve consistency across platforms, establish a Wagering Advertising Opt-out Register, and introduce restrictions on the direct marketing of predatory inducements to vulnerable Australians.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Together, these amendments strengthen the Bill and provide Australians with greater protection from online gambling harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill contains a comprehensive suite of reforms to address the proliferation of wagering advertising across television, radio, sport and online.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Australians are seeing too much gambling advertising. The Bill introduces significant restrictions on wagering advertising during live sporting broadcasts, limits the volume of wagering advertising that may be shown during certain periods, restricts the broadcasting of odds, and increases controls on harmful and misleading advertising content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">These measures have been strengthened through amendments that extend protections for children's programs to broadcasting video on demand and subscription video on demand services and ensure protections for live sporting content apply consistently across both broadcasting and online platforms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Collectively, these reforms help ensure children and young people are not continually exposed to gambling advertising simply because they are watching sport or other entertainment and apply it across all platforms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Australians should be able to watch and participate in sport without gambling being a normalised part of that experience.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill restricts gambling advertising during sporting events and prohibits gambling advertising on sporting uniforms and at sporting venues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The reforms recognise that Australians increasingly consume content online and that protections need to apply wherever people are watching, listening and engaging.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under the triple-lock mechanism, wagering advertising may only be provided where an individual is logged into an account, their age has been verified as over 18, and they have access to an opt-out mechanism, which must be prominently displayed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill, as amended, will make it easier to opt-out across multiple accounts through the establishment of a Wagering Advertising Opt-out Register.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Wagering Advertising Opt-out Register will provide Australians with a 'one stop shop' to opt out of receiving wagering advertising across online content services that are implementing the triple-lock system.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Put simply, Australians who do not wish to receive wagering advertising online will have a practical and effective way to avoid it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The costs of administering, operating and enforcing the Register, should they be needed, will also be recoverable through a levy imposed on licensed interactive wagering service providers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill has also been strengthened through the introduction of new wagering harm reduction measures for licensed interactive wagering service providers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">These measures recognise that gambling harm can arise not only from advertising, but also from practices that encourage continued or increased wagering activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The amendments introduce restrictions on the direct marketing of inducements to vulnerable customer cohorts, including people who have recently opened an account, individuals who have recently deregistered from BetStop, and customers identified as being at risk of gambling-related harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The reforms also prohibit wagering providers from offering staff or affiliates commissions or similar payments linked to a customer's gambling activity, helping remove incentives for staff to push customers to increase gambling participation or expenditure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Australians should not be exposed to illegal gambling services that operate outside Australia's laws and outside Australia's consumer protections.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill further strengthens Australia's ability to disrupt illegal offshore gambling operators. It improves ACMA's enforcement capabilities, expands cooperation with financial institutions and digital services, and supports more effective action against unlawful gambling providers. Amendments made to the Bill enhance the framework to help address the publication of illegal wagering advertising online.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also enhances BetStop—the National Self-Exclusion Register, by implementing recommendations from the recent statutory review and ensuring the framework remains effective as technologies and marketing practices evolve.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In addition, the Bill addresses emerging products that have the potential to cause significant consumer harm. It prohibits online keno products, prohibits foreign-matched lotteries, and addresses lottery-style schemes operating under trade promotion arrangements that may mislead consumers or undermine legitimate lottery operators and charitable fundraising activities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The package of measures in this Bill will reduce exposure to wagering advertising, provide Australians with greater control over the advertising they receive, increases protections for people experiencing gambling harm, improve the integrity of Australia's gambling regulatory framework, and support a safer online wagering environment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill is a significant step forward in tackling online gambling harm and protecting vulnerable Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">NATIONAL SELF-EXCLUSION REGISTER (COST RECOVERY LEVY) AMENDMENT BILL 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The recent Statutory Review of BetStop—the National Self-exclusion Register, tabled in February 2026, found only 1 in 4 people are aware that BetStop exists.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And among people who placed a bet in the last 12 months, it was still only 1 in 3.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We need to make sure every Australian knows about this vital service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We also need to place the onus on gambling companies, not taxpayers, to fund this work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026 also includes a number of other provisions to strengthen the operation of BetStop.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill will expand the cost-recovery framework to ensure it covers the full range of activities that ACMA and the Department undertake to ensure the effectiveness of the register, including promotion and awareness raising activities</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">INTERACTIVE GAMBLING (COST RECOVERY LEVY) BILL 2026</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill is a companion to the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform} Bill 2026, which is expected to introduce new restrictions on inducement-based marketing and establish the Wagering Advertising Opt-out Register. This Bill ensures that the costs of administering, operating and enforcing those reforms, should they be needed, can be recovered from the wagering industry.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Government has listened carefully to the evidence presented during the recent Senate inquiry and through ongoing stakeholder engagement. We are particularly concerned by evidence about wagering inducements and the role these practices can play in encouraging gambling and exacerbating gambling-related harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is expected that the Government's reforms will respond to these concerns by introducing new restrictions on inducement-based marketing and establishing the Wagering Advertising Opt-out Register, which will provide Australians with a 'one-stop shop' to opt out of seeing wagering advertising on online platforms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Australian Communications and Media Authority will be responsible for implementing and enforcing these reforms, including monitoring compliance with the new restrictions and establishing and administering the Opt-out Register.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill enables the ACMA to recover the costs of those activities through a levy imposed on licensed interactive wagering service providers. It is appropriate that the wagering industry, rather than taxpayers, bears the costs of regulating these activities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The levy established by this Bill is intended solely to recover the costs associated with administering, operating and enforcing these reforms.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>15</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ZN4" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HENDERSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:11</span>):  I'm very pleased to rise to speak on the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, National Self-exclusion Register (Cost Recovery Levy) Amendment Bill 2026 and Interactive Gambling (Cost Recovery Levy) Bill 2026. I have to start by saying these bills, particularly the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, are vastly different to the ones that the government presented into the parliament a very short time ago.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We have worked constructively with the government to secure a wide range of sensible amendments to this bill to ensure that children are better protected and that there is much greater protection for vulnerable Australians, including those suffering from gambling harm. These amendments also include a very significant crackdown on illegal gambling ads, particularly on social media. But we want to ensure that, in prosecuting these amendments and in bringing forward a vastly strengthened bill, we preserve the personal choice for millions of Australians who gamble responsibly. We have had constructive discussions, and I do acknowledge and thank both the Prime Minister and the communications minister, but it has not been an easy road. We have seen more than three years of delay, deflection and deception from the government in relation to gambling reform.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government presented before the parliament a greatly flawed and deficient bill which did not get the balance right. It is extraordinary that that bill allowed for up to three gambling ads per hour to be served during children's television programming. It is extraordinary that the government's unamended bill did not combat predatory inducements and the shocking tactics used by gambling companies to target those suffering acute gambling harm and addiction. It is extraordinary that the government's unamended bill weakened the protections online and undid so much of the former coalition government's good work with the reforms that were passed by the parliament back in 2018. It is very disappointing that, while the Prime Minister is no longer saying this, he continued to say for a very long period of time that this unamended bill banned gambling ads during live sport, when, in fact, those prohibitions—the banning of gambling ads during live sport, including the five-minute blackout window before and after live sport between 5 am and 8.30 pm—were very significant initiatives of the former coalition government. When I talk about deception, that was a very misleading, disappointing claim by the Prime Minister—taking credit for the work of the former coalition government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But I do want to work through and discuss these amendments, which deliver sensible safeguards but, importantly, do not punish most Australians who gamble responsibly whether they want to have a bet on the races, take their chance on a lottery ticket or have a flutter on the race which stops the nation, the Melbourne Cup. In bringing forward these amendments, we also recognise the importance of the wagering sector and sectors such as racing. Thoroughbred racing alone is worth more than $13 billion to the Australian economy. It directly employs 100,000 Australians, half of whom work in regional Australia. But it is absolutely not good enough that the government's unamended bill did not combat predatory inducements, allowed gambling ads in children's television programming and weakened online protections. So now the bill, amended in the House and now before the Senate, includes a wide range of significant amendments delivered by the coalition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are tougher restrictions on broadcasters. The blackout period before live sport, before the game commences, has been extended from five minutes to 15 minutes between 5 am to 8.30 pm. It was 6 am under the government's bill. We've now brought it back to 5 am, as was the case with the current law. There will be no gambling ads allowed in children's television programming or programs directed to children. For the commercial television networks that apply the same broadcast rules, which includes a maximum of three gambling ads per hour between 5 am and 8.30 pm, where they apply the same broadcast rules to simulcast of those programs on BVOD platforms—that is now permitted, because, of course, many Australians, when they watch their smart TV, don't know whether they're watching a network through their terrestrial aerial or through the app—we have made sure that no gambling ads will be allowed during video-on-demand catch-up television programs where that triple-lock opt-out exemption applies.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There will now be tougher online restrictions. Labor's bill, as I mentioned, weakened the rules online. It dropped the five-minute blackout before and after live sport. It allowed gambling ads in unscheduled breaks, such as after a goal was scored, which was a huge shock when we first read the government's proposal. I'm very pleased to say that one of our amendments has fixed this, and now the broadcast rules mirror those online very significantly.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There will a complete ban on the direct marketing of predatory inducements. There will be a ban on staff commissions related to customer activity, such as customer spending and betting losses. So no longer will wagering companies in this country be allowed to target those who are incurring very large losses or who are addicted to gambling and making their lives hell. The direct marketing of inducements, including targeting through social media advertising, to red flag customers is now banned. There are very strong obligations to monitor customers to make sure that the gambling companies are appropriately red-flagging customers who are showing signs of gambling harm. And there are big fines for breaches.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This has never been part of our law. Responsible Wagering talks about frameworks. Well, frameworks are meaningless. Until the bill before the Senate now, there have been no laws that ban predatory inducements, and that is where so much of the harm is occurring. We heard that compelling evidence in the Senate inquiry, including from Mr Luke Bateman, a former NRL player, who told a shocking story about how he was being targeted. Those who are addicted to gambling are targeted by these so-called VIP managers, who were of course causing such enormous harm. There will be no inducements for 14 days for all new account holders. This is not just important for anyone signing up to a betting account. It also means that if someone was with one betting company and they'd reached their limit or they'd been red-flagged or they'd been restricted, they can't just go and sign up with someone else and keep betting in an uncontrolled way. So there is an important cooling-off period there.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For those who have registered with BetStop, another very important initiative of the former coalition government—we legislated BetStop—there will be a three-month cooling-off period following a customer's deregistering from BetStop.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There will be AdStop, a global opt-out register which ensures that every Australian can go to the register, a one-stop shop to opt out of all gambling ads no matter where they are online. This is a very significant initiative. The idea that Australians have got to find every single opt-out button on every website, on every social media platform, from our perspective, was untenable. This register will take up to 12 months to design and implement. The government needs to make sure it gets it right. Privacy and data have to be properly protected. But this is now one place where Australians can go to opt out of all gambling ads in this country. This is a huge warning to the gambling companies. If you want to try and get around these laws, if you want to abuse your privilege to operate in the Australian marketplace, I can tell you every single Australian will have the opportunity to opt out of wagering advertising through a very simple mechanism. So this, as I say, is a very important initiative of the coalition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We have also tackled the scourge of illegal gambling ads online, particularly on social media. Publishers of gambling advertisements are now directly liable for publishing illegal gambling ads online, including from illegal offshore casinos. Prior to this, ACMA, the regulator, had some limited powers. They were playing whack-a-mole with overseas illegal websites, but they were popping up as soon as they were being taken down. We've got to make sure that the publishers of gambling ads in this country check to make sure that they are only publishing ads from licensed wagering providers in this country. Illegal offshore gambling is causing enormous harm to Australians. It is costing Australians some $3.6 billion. The trajectory is that in a number of years it will cost up to $5 billion. They are an absolute scourge on social media. They are very deceptive. We are cracking down and shutting them out.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There will very importantly be a statutory review in three years—another coalition amendment that we fought very hard for. This will be independent. This will include public submissions. This will drive accountability and transparency. We want to make sure that nothing falls through the cracks. This is a big warning to the gambling industry. This is a big warning to all stakeholders—television, radio broadcasters, gambling companies and other online platforms. If you are going to try and get around these laws, if you are going to try and continue to hurt Australians, there will be full and complete transparency and accountability through a statutory review. The coalition has worked very hard to ensure these amendments are practical, they are proportionate and they respect personal choice and responsibility. I have to say—and I do commend others in the Senate, including the Greens and the crossbench—we drove the government kicking and screaming to a Senate inquiry. The two days of hearings shone a very significant light on the extensive gambling harm that is being caused in this country. I want to thank those who did testify in the Senate inquiry for their courage. That was very, very influential in convincing the government that they needed to do so much more. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to also reflect on the coalition's record when we were in government. I did call out the Prime Minister in relation to the fact that back in 2018 we banned gambling ads during live sport, including in the five-minute window before and after. We legislated BetStop, the national self-exclusion register, to support gamblers who needed support to take a break from gambling. That is now up and running and that is working very well. Also, we did pass laws to prohibit betting companies offering sign-up inducements, as part of the National Consumer Protection Framework. Now, as we know, we have much tougher provisions before the Senate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians lost approximately $32 billion on legal forms of gambling in 2023-24, and 25 per cent of those losses were as a result of wagering. The consequences extend well beyond financial loss. Gambling addiction can contribute to psychological distress, relationship breakdown, financial hardship and workplace impacts. Families often bear the consequences alongside the individual gambler. We also recognise that we've got to get the balance right. This is a very important industry, including, of course, the racing industry. We think that, in bringing forward these amendments, which have now been passed in the House, we have a much better bill. I commend the bill to the Senate. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>17</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
                <name.id>290544</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="290544" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:27</span>):  I rise to speak on the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026. We have a generation of Australian adults and Australian children who have grown up in an environment where gambling has become normalised—dangerously normalised. This has led to all kinds of harms both to the individual and to broader society. We know that around one in 10 Australians experience gambling harm. However, that belies the fact that this harm has a knock-on effect, a ripple effect, on families and on communities. It's not just mental health impacts. It means that families and individuals are unable to pay their bills. They're unable to put food on the table. Sometimes businesses are put at risk. Sometimes people end up homeless, or worse. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The trendline when it comes to gambling losses is going in an upward direction. Last year, gambling losses amounted to around $36 billion. That is nearly $100 million per day. That is money from hardworking Australians going out the door, in the midst of a cost-of-living crisis, and into the coffers of gambling corporations, some of whom are not even domiciled here. That's going offshore. We know that this package of reforms is not going to please everyone. I understand that—this is a morally charged issue—but I believe that these reforms are highly significant. I want to thank the coalition for working collaboratively with the government on these reforms, particularly Senator Sarah Henderson, who sits with me on a committee that has also prosecuted this work. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I also want to pay tribute to one of our own: the late Peta Murphy, former member for Dunkley, whose seminal work kicked off this response. This has been going for a number of years. We didn't fulfil all of Peta's requests, but I think we have delivered in this package of reforms highly significant changes that will make a tangible difference, bearing in mind that this is building on other reforms that we introduced in our first term of government. The work of social policy, as the minister says, is never done. It is never done. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I will go through, broadly speaking, what this package entails. It involves shielding children from gambling ad exposure; creating one set of rules for every screen, whether you're watching it on free-to-air or online through TV in an app, for example; giving people control over what they see through the triple-lock function, which gives them an opt out if they're an adult and they're logged in; closing off inducements at vulnerable pressure points and banning commissions which have driven predatory marketing behaviour; and having an industry-pays approach and enforcement with teeth, bearing in mind that this package of reforms is complementary to what we introduced in our first term.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In 2024 on some channels in this country, you could sit through eight gambling ads an hour in the middle of news. These bills cap it at three an hour on broadcast TV, meaning free-to-air TV, between five am and 8.30 pm, brought forward from 6 am, and none at all during live sport inside those hours. The blackout around a game goes from five minutes to 15—15 minutes before the first bounce and 15 minutes after the final siren. On radio, gambling ads disappear in the morning and in the afternoon around the time of children's programming, which is to say that, every time a child is strapped into the back of a car on the way to school and on the way home, they're not going to hear these ads. It's really important to ensuring that we don't normalise and socialise our children into believing gambling is part of the furniture of their lives. It isn't. Online, the ads are off by default unless a person is logged in, verified as over 18 and given a way to switch them off. That is the deluge dammed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As a former medical practitioner, I can tell you that gambling harm almost never walks through the door of a hospital announcing itself. It manifests in other ways. It presents as a mental health crisis, and I saw plenty of those. I saw plenty of young men coming through the emergency department door, some of whom were jaundiced from nearly drinking themselves to death. These were people who had really good jobs and had everything to live for and for whom something had gone badly wrong. They would come in silence. It was incredibly difficult to extract what was wrong with them, but then we would chip and chip away, and we would find that, in many cases, gambling was travelling with alcoholism and with other problems.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It may also present in other ways—a young bloke who has chest pain but not a single cardiac risk factor to explain it. Chest pain can be a manifestation of anxiety. It presents as a family sitting in the waiting room who have stopped speaking to one another. Family breakdown is real. You treat what is in front of you, but, very often, you may not find out what is underneath it. We're not very good at picking this, because it is a highly stigmatising disorder. Gambling harm runs into mental health, into family violence, into financial counselling, into homelessness services, into our emergency departments and into our family courts—one ecosystem of pain and harm and suffering. Break one part of it, and you will find the cost somewhere else. Everyone is paying for this harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are some scenarios worth considering. This one should be familiar to every Australian. It's Saturday afternoon. You've got the game on. Your kid is on the floor watching telly, and, by the time the second quarter is done, she can recite the odds back to you—not the ladder but the odds. I didn't even know what the odds were when I was a kid. I don't think I really still do either, because I didn't really grow up gambling. It wasn't part of my life. It's very different with a generation of young kids in Australia today. She thinks that the odds are part of watching football because that's what her entire life has been like.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Here's another scenario: you're 19, you've just opened your first betting account, and, for the next fortnight, your phone lights up with bonus bets, matched deposits and a little push notification at 11 pm at night telling you there's money waiting for you. Under these reforms, that first fortnight will go quiet—completely silent. There won't be inducements, and there won't be direct marketing for two weeks after an account is opened. It's in those first two weeks that a habit is formed. In those first two weeks, a lot of Australians will also be exposed to information on how they can gamble responsibly and the risks, particularly for young men.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Then, there's another scenario. This is one that should trouble us most—you've done the single hardest thing a person with a gambling problem can do. You've taken that first step, which is to put your name down on BetStop, a self-exclusion register. Some months later, you come off that register. Within days, the offers start again, timed almost to the hour from a company that knows precisely who you are and precisely what will work. They know your buttons, and they will press them. Under these bills, that stops for 90 days. That's a significant reform. It's a significant cooling-off period to protect you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Here's the fourth: you've been flagged by the company itself as a customer at risk of harm. Flagged by their own systems! They know you; they know what buttons to press. The marketing keeps coming anyway. Under these bills, direct marketing of inducements to those customers will be banned outright. Gambling companies know exactly who to target. They have always known. They have the data, they have the models, and they run them with skill. These bills take that intelligence and turn it around, using it to protect people instead.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We are also banning commissions to staff and to affiliates, and we based this on the explosive testimony that we heard in the Senate inquiry. With regards to advertising, our starting principle is simple: what you see on telly should match what you get online. It hasn't, and everyone in the building knows that. We are taking the protections that sat in the Commercial Television Industry Code of Practice, an industry code enforced by industry, and we're putting them into law. Then we're extending them to streaming. The rules on live sport and the rules during children's programming will apply on platforms like 9Now and 7plus, and on streaming platforms like Netflix and Prime—one set of rules for every screen.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The first is simulcast. Where a broadcaster is running a straight live feed on its terrestrial channel online, it may elect to follow the broadcast rules rather than the triple lock. This comes with some transparency obligations: providers must declare to their viewers and to the regulator which rules they are operating under, and the whole framework will be subject to review at three years. If, however, you're watching something on a TV on an app like 9Now or 7plus, and it's not a live simulcast, you can opt out of those ads. There should be a prominent feature on those platforms to enable you, as long as you're logged in and over 18, to actually opt out of gambling ads. It's not a given that, just because you're going to be online watching a streaming platform or a broadcasting platform like a TV in an app, for example, that you will see these ads. You may see them if it is a live simulcast from a broadcast channel, but, if you opt out, then you're not going to see them at other times.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The other reform is that we will be grandfathering stadium and jersey advertising. Existing commercial contracts cannot be voided by this parliament. What we have done here is bring the cut-off forward to the date these bills were introduced—2 July this year—so nobody can rush in and sign a decade-long deal before Christmas. We have also added a sunset, so the whole arrangement expires after five years.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Beyond advertising, these bills also go to enforcement, and enforcement is where reform either bites or it doesn't. Civil penalties have increased to 1,000 penalty units and 5,000 for corporations. In dollars, that is around $364,000 an offence and roughly $1.82 million for a company—more than five times the highest advertising penalty currently in the act. The penalties do matter. So does the opprobrium that comes from the community if these are breached. These are the difference between a rule and a suggestion.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Illegal offshore operators—since 2019, the ACMA, which is the enforcement authority, has had more than 1,700 illegal gambling sites blocked. It's lot of work but the operators are quick, they are invasive and they are sophisticated. And, frankly, the whole process has been too slow. These bills will streamline the blocking process, extend the obligation to app stores and search engines so that they must proactively keep these sites away from Australians and their feeds. Even if you reach the site, you will not be able to send funds to it from an Australian bank account—this is important—and ACMA gets the power to issue take-down notices directly, including to an influencer spruiking an illegal service to Aussie kids.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">BetStop is a reform we introduced in our last term of government. As of July this year, more than 67,000 Australians have registered, with around 41,000 who are currently active. This is a self-exclusion register. Before we came to government, that register did not exist. These bills deliver every recommendation of the Eccles review: a mandatory minimum three-month exclusion once you come off BetStop and friction added to the cancellation process so that nobody walks out of it on a bad night. Restrictions are extended beyond email and SMS to apps and push notifications, and old and new accounts will be linked so that harm patterns can actually be seen.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These bills are not a prohibition—I accept that—and not everyone will be happy. But, as a practitioner, I also don't believe in prohibition. I just don't believe it works. I never saw it work in my practice. If you clamp down, people find ways of circumventing those kinds of rules. These are significant reforms and I believe they get the balance right. They are a significant step forward in minimising gambling harm on individuals and in our wider community. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>19</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:42</span>):  The government has one core job, and that is to protect its citizens. The piece of legislation before us today, Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, fails to do exactly that. The Prime Minister and the leader of the coalition have not just failed to protect Australian citizens; they have failed the clearest moral test of all—to be honest about what they are failing to do.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor has proven itself to be captured by the gambling industry. All of those political donation inducements over years and years, adding up to millions and millions, cashed in by the gambling industry to stop this law working, to protect the gambling industry and its self-interest above and ahead of the protection of Australian families. These laws are designed to fail. Labor has proven itself to be captured by the industry, and the Liberal Party has proven itself to be weak and toothless. It is gambling companies who are the winners today, not Australian families—not even Australian media companies. The gambling industry has won the house.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill has become so convoluted it looks less like gambling reform and much more like a protection racket for the gambling industry. It's full of loopholes, delays, complexities, carve-outs. It is designed to not work. There was a very simple proposition put to this parliament, and put to the government, off the back of the Murphy review. That report recommended the ban of gambling advertising. It said clearly: 'Halfway measures do not work.' It said there needed to be a ban on inducements because of their 'predatory and harmful' nature. It said there must be a national regulator because the gambling industry has proven itself 'incapable' of doing the right thing. This bill fails on all three of those points. There is no ban on gambling advertising across any medium, there is no ban on inducements, and there is no national regulator to ensure gambling companies—who have shown themselves to be immoral, to be improper and to be corrupt—do the right thing. They have proven themselves unfit to be an industry, and yet the key recommendation, to have a watchdog to hold them to account, is missing from this entire bill and entire conversation, from both Labor and the Liberal Party. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll tell you one thing: advertising works. That's why the industry has fought tooth and nail to stop any attempt to ban ads. I'll tell you why we know it works: the gambling industry have done everything they can to get a piece of legislation that does everything but stop them from being able to advertise their dangerous product. We know that ads for gambling work because the gambling industry, in just one single year, spends $600 million on gambling advertising. In the 2023-24 financial year, Australian gambling companies spent $600 million flogging their dangerous and predatory product. You don't spend $600 million if it doesn't work. What is even more galling is that not only are they spending $600 million on gambling but it's six times more than they pay in tax. No wonder the gambling industry want anything but a ban on their advertising. The Labor and Liberal parties are so addicted to the gambling industry and the inducements that come from this industry that, despite all of the evidence and all of the stories of heartbreak and damage, they cannot bring themselves to do the obvious and simple thing.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I foreshadow that I will be moving a second reading amendment to ban the inducements that the gambling industry fork out to Labor and Liberal parties and MPs here today. Australians have lost $104 billion to gambling since the Murphy report was handed down. That's $666 million a week—$666 million a week is what Australians are losing. It is going straight into the coffers, to the profits, of the vultures in the gambling industry. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Since this debate has been elevated over the last few weeks, and we've seen the Senate inquiry and heard the experts and the people telling their personal stories, I've been inundated with accounts from Australians right across the country with their stories of absolute, complete and utter devastation. They are stories that are so shameful to tell, but Australians have been desperate to be heard. There are so many stories of people driven to suicide because they couldn't see any other way out of their gambling addiction. For one victim who wrote to my office, even in death, the gambling companies would not let her husband go. His widow kept receiving inducement offers after her husband had killed himself. What a pack of bastards. How disgusting.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There are mothers who have had to bury their sons, who will never, ever get to meet their grandchildren. There are fathers who will never know retirement, because they have to keep going back to work to support their children's rehab or addiction habit. There is the love of parents, brothers, sisters, uncles and aunts as they desperately try to keep their loved ones from doing the ultimate, heartbreaking act of ending their life to end the suffering for them and their family. There are decades worth of savings, millions of dollars and houses lost, vanished, to save a son who has a gambling addiction. There are entire small businesses that have gone bankrupt because someone in the business stole from the company in order to feed their gambling illness. The list goes on and on, yet it doesn't seem to matter how many bodies pile up on these companies' watch. It doesn't matter that the Murphy report set out a detailed road map of how this harm could be stopped.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Expert after expert has told this parliament what needs to be done. But the Labor Party, the Liberal Party, the National Party and One Nation don't care. It's all too hard. They are cowards. As they cowardly come into this place today to pretend and to beg for a pat on the back for putting through a piece of legislation that is designed to fail, the body count will continue. I feel exhausted by this. Australians and Australian families feel exhausted by this. This is what is wrong with the state of politics in this country. All of the evidence is so clear, and the public have been crystal clear, that the majority of Australians don't want these ads. Even if you like a flutter, you don't want to be bombarded with gambling advertising. You're worried about what it does to the vulnerable person next to you. But it doesn't matter, because vested interests have won the day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This opt-out register—what an absolute joke. It's as if people in this place or in the Prime Minister's office don't understand how the internet even works, and they expect a pat on the back for a fancy new product called AdStop. We know the ads are not stopping; they're not being banned. How will this opt-out register even work? The government can't even answer that. But we do know that every person in this country who doesn't want to receive ads will have to give their name, email address and phone number to the government, who will then take their name, phone number and email address to every website in the country that runs advertising—every app, every gaming platform.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It beggars belief that the government and the opposition come in here today and think they can sell this rubbish. We're not idiots. The Australian people are not mugs. They can see what has happened here, which is that the Labor Party and the Liberal Party have been played. The Murphy report said that inducements need to be banned immediately because they are so harmful. The government recognises they're harmful because they've had to do something, but it's just to look like they're doing something, because if inducements are so harmful then they should be banned. Are we going to let the gambling companies decide who is vulnerable to their inducements?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Andrew Wallace, the Liberal Party MP in the other house, is right. This is putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank. The gambling companies were on the radio today saying they've already identified these vulnerable people. I bet they have. They know exactly who to target, and they do. There is nothing that is going to stop them from doing that further, because the one thing this government has refused to do is establish a national regulator. These companies all run their dodgy, predatory grooming activities through the regulator in the NT because it's a free-for-all. Everyone knows it, and you haven't had the guts to do anything about it. The gambling companies are getting away with murder. They groom people like paedophiles groom their victims. They have no social licence in this country anymore, yet the Labor Party and the Liberal Party are rolling over for them. What a bunch of cowards.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>20</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Liddle, Sen Kerrynne</name>
                <name.id>300644</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300644" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LIDDLE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">10:57</span>):  The coalition has agreed to support the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026 only because it changed significantly from what Labor first put on offer. This is a better bill today than the one they first put forward, and it is a better bill because the coalition did the work Labor should've done. I commend my colleague Senator Henderson for her continued efforts. The coalition acknowledges the importance of protecting children from gambling harm and gambling advertising while respecting the choices of adults who gamble responsibly. The coalition did the hard work that Labor should've done. There are tens of thousands of Australians, including thousands of South Australians, whose job depends on a wagering and racing industry that operates within the law. They deserve that scrutiny.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Murphy report, <span style="font-style:italic;">Y</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ou win some, you lose more</span>, was handed down in June 2023. It was a thorough piece of work led by the late Peta Murphy and it deserved a considered, timely government response. Instead, after three years of delay by Labor, we now work constructively to fix serious holes in Labor's bill and deliver practical, proportionate reform. Three years is how long it took this Labor government to respond to a report that warned of the harm gambling is doing to Australian families. In that time, the number of Australians caught up in addiction or not-yet punters that were ripe for recruitment has grown. When the response finally came on 12 May this year, it was tabled on budget day, which is the one day that is guaranteed to bury it in the news cycle. So much for transparency and accountability; we've seen that promise broken over and over again by this Labor government. South Australians deserve better than to have a government that treats gambling harm as a media management problem rather than a policy problem that deserves real attention.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When the exposure draft of this bill was released in May and the bill was introduced into the House in July, it became immediately apparent that it had serious shortfalls. That is why coalition senators strongly backed referring this bill to a Senate inquiry conducted by the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee. Time and again, as is commonplace with government bills, the inquiry heard that the bill, in its original form, was not good enough—so we listened and then we acted. The committee heard from former NRL player Luke Bateman, whose testimony about the tactics used by some licensed wagering companies to target gambling addicts was confronting and courageous. We heard from allied professionals, from advocates and from families who lived through the damage of gambling addiction and what it can do to a household. We heard again and again that the bill as drafted did not go far enough to stop predatory targeting of vulnerable gamblers and, in some respects, actually weakened protections that already existed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">After two days of hearings, the shadow minister for communications and digital safety was clear and public about what she saw: the coalition could not support this bill in its form back then. This was a considered judgement based on evidence and is precisely the kind of scrutiny this parliament exists to provide. Because of that position, because the coalition was willing to say 'no' until the defects and shortcomings were addressed, here we are today, finally talking about a bill with real substantive improvements.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Sport time should be family time. Parents should be able to watch footy with the kids without gambling advertising being pushed at them at every turn, whether they are watching on television or streaming online. I think of Adelaide Oval on a Saturday afternoon, of families packed onto the hill or gathered around the TV at home, watching the Crows or Port—kids and pets in club colours, parents just wanting to enjoy the game together with the whole family. That is what this reform is about.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's original bill could have allowed up to three gambling advertisements an hour during children's programming. That was never going to be acceptable, and the coalition won't waive that through. We have strengthened protections around children's programs and live sport, including bringing online streaming rules into line with broadcast protections. That's the right thing to do. This matters because the way Australians watch sport has changed. A blackout on gambling advertising that only applies to free-to-air television while mainstreaming services are left untouched is a loophole, not a protection. South Australian families streaming the football on their tablets deserve the same protection as those watching on the television in a lounge room. The coalition insisted that online platforms be brought up to the same standard as broadcast, and that is now reflected in this bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We have acted on predatory inducements. The Senate inquiry heard confronting evidence about vulnerable gamblers being targeted with significant inducements. Labor's original bill did not properly deal with that problem. This was, to my mind, one of the most serious gaps in the government's original approach. We heard directly through this inquiry that some operators are identifying so-called 'red flag gamblers'—people already showing signs of harmful behaviour—and specifically targeting them with inducements designed to keep them betting. That's predatory conduct—not acceptable to the coalition. The coalition would not accept a bill that left that loophole open, and we pushed hard to see it addressed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We have secured tougher action against illegal gambling advertising flooding social media as well as global online opt-out registers, so Australians have a one-stop shop to opt out of gambling advertising online. It's simple and makes opt-out services easily accessible to vulnerable Australians should they need it, should they choose to do that. Illegal offshore wagering operators do not play by Australian rules, and they should not be allowed to advertise as though they do. Strengthening payment-blocking and website-blocking powers, and giving Australians a genuine, simple way to opt out of gambling advertising altogether, are practical measures that will make a difference to households who want to reduce their exposure to this content. It will make a difference to Australian families. This is a sensible middle ground. We should be tough on gambling harm and protect children without treating every Australian who enjoys an occasional punt as a problem gambler.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to be clear about something, because I think it gets lost in this debate: gambling done responsibly is a legal and legitimate form of entertainment for millions of Australians. The gambling sector directly employs around 33,000 Australians, and gambling taxes generate more than $10 billion a year for the essential services Australians rely on. Thoroughbred racing alone contributes more than $13 billion in economic activity and supports over 100,000 jobs, half of them in regional communities, including right across regional South Australia from Port Lincoln to Mount Gambier.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">None of that changes the fact that gambling causes real harm. In 2023-24, Australians lost more than $32 billion on legal gambling. That's among the highest rates of loss per person anywhere in the world. Wagering losses make up around a quarter of that figure. Gambling addiction can bring psychological distress, broken relationships, financial ruin and workplace harm. Both things are true at once, and good policy has to hold both truths at the same time rather than pretending one does not exist.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The coalition has a strong record of practical gambling reforms, including BetStop and the National Consumer Protection Framework, which bans betting companies from offering sign up inducements. This agreement builds on the coalition's record. It was the former government, the coalition government, that introduced the 2018 ban on wagering advertising during live sport broadcasts, including that five-minute blackout before and after the game, because we understand that footy time is family time. It's the best time. That coalition government legislated BetStop, the national self-exclusion register, which has already made a genuine difference to thousands of Australians trying to manage their own gambling. And that coalition government banned sign up inducements through the National Consumer Protection Framework. This builds on the coalition's record.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The task of all sides of this parliament is to build a framework that protects Australians from foreseeable harm while preserving a lawfully, properly regulated industry that supports real jobs and real communities. It is incumbent on all of us to guard against causing unnecessary harm to the wagering sector—and, in turn, to the racing industry and, in turn, to the tens of thousands of Australian jobs that depend on it—while never losing sight of the families who have been hurt by gambling addiction and doing what we can to protect those who are caught up in addiction.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government took more than three years to bring forward serious reforms in this space. It is because of the coalition—because we referred this bill to scrutiny, because we listened to the evidence and because we held firm until real changes were made—that this bill is now one we can responsibly pass and support. Protect children, protect vulnerable Australians, respect the choices of adults who gamble responsibly and protect the jobs of tens of thousands that depend on lawful, properly regulated industry. That's what this is. This is the balance this parliament should and must get right. Will Labor govern with balance, or will they continue to fail to govern with balance and respect for our most vulnerable people? This is a better bill because the coalition did the hard work, which Labor should have done from the very beginning, to protect Australian families and also protect the industry.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>22</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
                <name.id>316555</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:09</span>):  I rise to speak in support of the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026. Australians love their sports. In my home state of Western Australia we've been spoilt for choice, with local and international sporting events coming to our great state in recent years—from the Matildas opening the AFC Women's Asian Cup last March in Perth to the AFL bringing games to the south-west town of Bunbury, where North Melbourne played the Dockers. Might I just say, the mighty Freo Dockers are having an excellent season at the moment. Just on Sunday, the Freo Dockers women's team played their very first game at their new home in my local community of Cockburn. I can't wait to take my son to a game just down the road at the Dockers' amazing facility at Cockburn ARC, but, when I do, I don't want him to be exposed to gambling ads on the sidelines as we're watching the players play the game.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I know many families feel the same. When they're taking the train—on trains manufactured in WA, thanks to a Labor government, that are running along the Metronet network, funded by both state and federal Labor governments—they should be able to do it knowing that, when they arrive at the game, their kids won't be bombarded with ads that expose them to betting. Families deserve to be able to go to a stadium and watch the game without being worried about the ads that their kids might see. Children should not grow up believing that sports and gambling go hand in hand. Aussies love sports, but they love it for the game, not for the odds. When gambling advertising gets in the way of enjoying the footy or the rugby with your kids or with your mates, we should step up and make change. Gambling ads have taken over our sports, our stadiums, our teams, our TVs, iPads and phone screens for too long. Without these changes, you haven't been able to watch your favourite team without being told to have a crack.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This legislation is groundbreaking. Not only does this bill represent the largest reform to online gambling in Australia's history, but it is also the first time a federal government has taken proactive steps to regulate gambling advertising. The Albanese Labor government is taking the strongest ever action to tackle the harms of gambling. We will protect Australians from the harms of online gambling and we will especially protect children and young people by minimising their exposure to betting ads.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill places limits on ads so that no more than three gambling ads can be broadcast each hour between 5 am and 8.30 pm, the time that kids are most likely to watch any television. New measures announced this week, and that I'm really pleased about, enshrine what is in the code of practice into law, to legislate that gambling ads cannot be shown during shows for children. There will be a total ban during live sports broadcasts within those hours, with the marketing blackout starting 15 minutes before each game. On the radio, ads will be banned during school drop-off and pick-up times, between the hours of 8 am and 9 am, and from 3 pm to 4 pm. We are banning wagering advertisements online unless you have a logged in account and are over 18.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We will make sure that everyone has the option to opt out from these ads should they wish. For people that need to stay away from gambling related products, this will make it easier for them to reduce their exposure, because opting out should be easy and straightforward. The new wagering advertising opt-out register is designed to allow Australians to choose to not be exposed to wagering ads through a single, simple mechanism, and it will have effect across all online platforms. These are sensible and good measures.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese Labor government will also impose a levy on gambling companies to cover the cost of this register and other measures on inducements, because if companies are ready to make a profit from gambling, they should also be ready to pay for the measures that keep people safe from gambling related harm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">After the passing of this bill, online betting companies will not be able to enlist high-profile celebrities and sports players in their ads. We know that the endorsement of these figures can be highly influential, especially with young people. Sporting fans will no longer be targeted by odds-style ads, limiting the ability of betting platforms to induce bets around sporting events. These reforms will also prevent gambling companies from plastering their logos and slogans across the uniforms of players and officials, and from around sporting venues.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In recent weeks, our government has strengthened our reform following significant consultation, the evidence heard by the Senate inquiry and also the advocacy of many, many Labor members around the country which led to a platform change at the ALP's national conference last month. We've added additional measures around inducements, and these are really, really important measures. Inducements can very quickly become toxic. I think we've all seen some of the most terrible examples of those inducements in the evidence given at the Senate inquiry over the last few weeks, and there is absolutely no place for that in our country. We cannot stand for it. We condemn that action in the very strongest of terms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our strengthened measures in this bill include additional protections for consumers at the critical points that they risk tipping into gambling harm. These measures include banning inducements for 14 days after signing up with a gambling company, banning inducements on all red flagged customers, banning inducements for three months after a person deregisters from BetStop and banning commissions to staff or affiliates based on consumer activity. These are sensible measures that I think add a lot of important weight to this bill. Banning ads during live sport, banning ads during children's television shows, banning radio ads during drop-off and pick-up, limiting ads online, giving people choice to opt out simply, banning ads featuring celebrities, banning odds-style ads, keeping gambling companies off players and officials and reclaiming our stadiums for sports—these are concrete, achievable reforms that will protect Australians. These changes will be complemented with a comprehensive range of measures to address risky products and integrity concerns.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government will crack down on services that provide access to offshore lotteries. These foreign matched lotteries sell tickets locally but match their draws and prizes to products overseas. Larger jackpots are promoted to encourage higher spending, but, because the draws are being conducted overseas, they are outside Australian regulation, creating a big risk for consumers. The agencies offering these products are exploiting gaps in the legislation and competing with Australian regulated lotteries. That means they're diverting funds that might otherwise go to supporting local businesses, newsagencies and community organisations through programs like Lotterywest in my home state. We know that many charities and community groups rely on the funding raised through those lotteries. From now on, to sell lottery tickets in Australia, you will be required to run a local lottery. This will strengthen consumer protections and contribute to the financial sustainability of local community and charitable organisations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Access to new technologies, which are ever-changing—it feels often day by day—makes these kinds of reforms an ever-evolving challenge. Our government will ban emerging, harmful, online 'pocket pokies', and we will keep working to address harms related to online gambling. In line with these changes, we will boost enforcement against illegal offshore gambling providers, making sure the reforms have the intended effect of keeping people safe.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Protecting Australians from the harms of gambling also requires protecting them from illegal activity that smears the reputation of our sporting codes. We've seen cases of criminal organisations fixing matches in order to make a profit from wagering. Sport Integrity Australia leads the way in countering competition manipulation by working with sports codes, clubs and international agencies to identify and prevent instances of match fixing. We will build on these efforts by making match fixing a criminal offence consistent across the country, improving sports integrity and reducing the appeal of our local competitions as a target for illegal activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill has been designed with people's safety front of mind. These commonsense reforms are an important milestone in Labor's long track record of safeguarding Australians from gambling harm. We have already legislated a ban on credit cards, digital wallets and digital currency for both online and telephone betting services. Getting into debt to place bets is an extremely risky practice. It is already illegal for wagering companies to offer or help you access credit for the purposes of gambling.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that sometimes, for people that need to step away from gambling platforms, self-exclusion is the only viable option. That's why we created BetStop the National Self-Exclusion Register. Since its inception, more than 59,000 Australians have willingly registered, almost 40 per cent of those opting for a self-imposed lifetime ban. We will continue to strengthen this scheme following the recent statutory review. Mandatory pre-verification imposed on online platforms ensures that children under 18 and people that have opted for self-exclusion will not be allowed to place bets. In addition to these measures, our government will expand access to financial counselling support for gambling and work to continue to raise awareness of the risks associated with online gambling.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill strikes a balance between protecting an individual's right to have fun safely and, importantly, shielding our children and young people and people who are vulnerable to harm from gambling advertising, keeping them safe and putting in place safeguards that can protect them. I know that there are people in this place and outside of this place who feel like this bill doesn't go far enough, but I think we can be really confident in the work that our government has done diligently over the last few years to come to a set of reforms that are the most significant to come to this parliament on gambling ever. No government has done this before, and it is really important that we take this strong action to protect children and young people and people who are vulnerable to harm from gambling action. Thank you.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  But you're not. That's the point.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="310860" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hodgins-May</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Minister Walsh, on a point of order?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="252157" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Walsh:</span>
                    </a>  Acting Deputy President, interjections are disorderly, and the senator deserves to be heard in silence.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  Senator Whiteaker, have you finished your speech? Thank you, Senator Whiteaker.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>24</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>24</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hodgins-May, Sen Steph (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>310860</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>24</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Walsh, Sen Jess</name>
                  <name.id>252157</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>24</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>24</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:22</span>):  Today, colleagues, is a sombre day. It is a tragic reminder of why we're seeing declining trust in politicians, in politics and in governments. I only started calling myself Australian in 2002, after my family moved here, and in that time I've never seen a prime minister with such a mandate to do something. This is a prime minister who has a unanimously backed parliamentary inquiry that looks at the harms of gambling in this country and has 31 recommendations to turn things around, with not a dissenting report nor additional comment. This is a prime minister who has the support of his party, parliamentary colleagues, rank-and-file Labor members and branches. This is a prime minister who has 80 per cent of Australians saying: 'Ban the damn ads. We're sick and tired of seeing these ads on TV, online and on social media. Get rid of them. We see the impact it's having on our kids. We see that it's setting them up for failure in the country that is the biggest loser per capita in the world.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Yet we have a prime minister who, despite all that, has not just capitulated to vested interests but over the last three years has actively engaged in watering down reform, providing an off-ramp from the Murphy report, delaying the response and giving us talking points straight from the industry that no experts can actually point to being based in any sort of fact. Now there is this bill, the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, which is a betrayal of an incredible legacy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a missed opportunity to change the country for generations of Australians, and this is a victory of vested interests over the community, over the people who we are meant to be in here to serve. Today, those vested interests have won. They managed to get to the Prime Minister, and it seems like he has single-handedly stopped the Labor Party doing what 80 per cent of Australians wanted them to do and assumed they would do. The vested interests may have won this battle, but they will not win the war against the Australian people, who want our children protected and a predatory industry put in its place. Fellow independent members, members of the crossbench and senators from the major parties who disagree with this legislation will all keep pushing hard to actually implement the Murphy report in line with what communities want and with what the parliament said was necessary.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I don't know about colleagues in here, but I continue to read the most tragic emails from constituents and from Australians further abroad, emailing from Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne with their personal stories of the impacts of gambling in a country where it's become so normalised—the impacts of inducements, the impacts on their family of losing a brother, son, grandson to gambling addiction and suicide. I've heard from Canberrans who are furious that their elected representative in the south of Canberra has not mentioned gambling reform a single time in the parliament since the Murphy report—not one single time. I assume people are emailing the member for Bean. They are certainly emailing me about this. He couldn't muster a single mention of gambling reform over the last three years.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We've got the independent candidate for Bean Jessie Price out there engaging with the community. Last week, I tabled a petition of over 700 Canberrans who've had a gut full and want the Labor government to act on this. I thought I would just echo some of the concerns I've heard from Canberrans about this. One says: 'This is the first time I've ever written to any member of parliament. The very communities that I live in are appalled at the voracious predatory industry of gambling. It's a social cancer. Its impacts on people's lives in general in our society are so detrimental.' Another one says, 'What or who is stopping the ALP from doing what Australians want?' There are more emails from people saying that they were faithful Labor voters but no longer. They feel betrayed. They feel like they've been sold out to vested interests.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've seen, and we've obviously heard, Labor members out there trying to defend this weak package, which basically doesn't implement a single recommendation of the Murphy report in full, and vastly overselling what the bill actually does. So let's quickly look at the facts. You already can't have ads in live sport between 5 am and 8.30. This bill doesn't change that. It just preserves the status quo. You're lifting the code and putting it in law. That's not something to be applauded. You already can't play betting ads during G rated programs. Why should we applaud you for doing something that already cannot be done on television. And it's already the rule that inducements can't be sent to people who are struggling. It's just never enforced because we have this industry that is regulated out of the NT, and the regulator there is basically functionally useless—asleep at the wheel. We heard evidence in the Senate inquiry that the regulator in the NT that regulates all of these big multinational gambling companies has no full-time staff. We've since heard that, after the allegations were aired at the Senate inquiry, they still have not contacted a single gambling company to say, 'Hey, were you offering cocaine as an inducement? Were you hooking up drugs? Were you offering sex workers?' and that continues. The Anthony Albanese Labor government is very happy for the NT regulator to continue to have a very light touch, and that is exactly why the Murphy report called for a national regulator.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Offshore betting providers are already banned. Illegal offshore gambling is illegal. It's in the name. That's not something that you're delivering with this. There is so much spin, and it's devastating to hear Labor members trying to sell this reform to Australians.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">My team has been working tirelessly on amendments, and I really thank the drafters. I know there's a huge amount of pressure on you at the moment. I'll be moving a host of amendments to try and strengthen this bill and make it a true reflection of what the Murphy report called for. Some I would personally find hard to vote against, but that's in senators' hands. One is an amendment that would ensure that proceeds of crime have to be returned by betting companies. We heard time and time again in the inquiry—and this was canvassed in the Murphy review—that where people have stolen money and bet it, gambling companies have no obligation to actually return that money to the people it was stolen from. That's surely something the Senate could fix.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll be moving a full gambling ad ban, as recommended by the Murphy report. Peta Murphy was clear. Partial bans on gambling advertising do not work, and I'm going to take her and the committee at their word. Rather than these weak cooling-off periods that we've heard about from the Prime Minister and Labor members, I'm proposing a full ban on inducements, as recommended by Peta Murphy. She stood up and said, 'This is the most urgent part of all of this reform. We should ban inducements today.' That was three years ago. They should be banned immediately, and, three years on, we're still seeing inducements. Now, we're essentially legitimising inducements with this legislation, basically just saying, 'Inducements are fine, as long as they're not within these certain bounds or scenarios.' That's really hard to stomach.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm proposing to replace the unworkable opt-out mechanism with an opt-in one. No-one is saying, despite what the PM might say, that we want to ban gambling in this country. That's ridiculous. We just want to ban these ads. If you are over 18 and you enjoy the ads, then you can opt in. It shouldn't be on everyone else to have to go through some convoluted process and then maybe, in 12 months, hopefully, we have this opt-out register that's modelled on the Do Not Call register. I don't know how many Australians are signed up for that and still get pestered by telemarketers and all sorts of people calling their mobile phones.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Scarr:</span>
                    </a>  And hand over all your private information!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DAVID POCOCK:</span>
                    </a>  Exactly! And they check your identity. I also propose extending the ban on ads during children's programs to PG rated shows as well. Most family viewing shows—<span style="font-style:italic;">LEGO Masters</span>, et cetera—are PG. Prime Minister Albanese, and, it seems, now, Angus Taylor, think that getting the balance right is three ads per hour during those shows. We're still normalising gambling if kids are seeing those ads during <span style="font-style:italic;">LEGO Masters</span> or if they're seeing them during <span style="font-style:italic;">MasterChef</span>. Whatever the shows that you love sitting down as a family and watching are, you're still going to see gambling ads during those shows.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the things that the Murphy report talked about was breaking the nexus between gambling and sport. I'll be moving former opposition leader Peter Dutton's proposal to extend banning ads during sport—both live sports and, really importantly, replays—to 60 minutes either side, in line with the coalition's proposal. This is really sensible.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Scarr:</span>
                    </a>  Including after 8.30 pm.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DAVID POCOCK:</span>
                    </a>  Regardless of what time, Senator Scarr. We know that the vast majority of children, when they're watching Friday night footy and Saturday night games, don't say at 8.30 pm, 'It's bedtime; I've got to go off to bed.' They watch the second half, and we know that half-time will be after 8.30 pm and they'll be seeing gambling ads.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I will also move an amendment that will force gambling companies to pay to promote the government's new ad-stop one-stop shop. If people don't know about it, how are they going to use it? Finally, I will move an amendment mandating that warnings at the end of gambling ads include a reference to ad-stop. I think that's pretty commonsense. We heard during the Senate inquiry that SBS have had an opt-out option for a while now but basically no-one uses it because they're not aware of it, and they admitted that they're not going to promote something which is not good for them commercially if fewer people are seeing gambling ads that they're being paid to air.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I urge senators and colleagues: we have an opportunity to protect Australian children here today in this place. I really commend the courage of colleagues who crossed the floor in the other place and others who may be contemplating crossing the floor on amendments and, potentially, on the bill. Today is a historic day, but I think it'll go down in history for all the wrong reasons. We will look back in time and say: 'There was a prime minister who squibbed it. There was a prime minister who had the opportunity to leave a legacy for this country, and instead we got the talking points from industry and we saw the effect and impact of lobbying and of vested interests on public policy.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Finally, in my last 20 seconds, I really want to thank all the families that have told their stories and have fronted up multiple times now to this parliament. To all the advocates out there, this is a sad day, but the job's not done and we'll continue to push this government and this system to put our kids and our future first.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I move this amendment to the motion for the second reading:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that the unanimous report of the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs, 'You win some, you lose more: Online gambling and its impacts on those experiencing gambling harm', chaired by the late Peta Murphy MP, recommended:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) in recommendation 26—a comprehensive ban on all forms of advertising for online gambling, introduced in four phases over three years,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) in recommendation 16—the prohibition, without delay, of all online gambling inducements and inducement advertising, and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) in recommendation 3—the establishment of national regulation and a national online gambling regulator with the sole purpose of reducing harm and responsibility for all licensing and regulation; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) notes that this bill does not implement these recommendations; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) calls on all parliamentary parties to allow their senators a conscience vote on this bill and any amendments to it, so that senators are free to vote on behalf of the communities they represent, which overwhelmingly expect strong action to protect Australian children from an industry that is grooming them to gamble".</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>25</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                  <name.id>282997</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>25</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                  <name.id>256136</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>IND</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>26</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                  <name.id>282997</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
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            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>26</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                  <name.id>256136</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>IND</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>26</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:37</span>):  I will be supporting a number of the amendments of Senator Pocock today and I will be crossing the floor today. It'll be only the second time in the seven years I've served in this place that I've chosen to do so, but I think this is such a serious issue for millions of Australians who've been impacted by gambling harm, and the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026 is such a flawed piece of legislation that I have no choice but to do so—and it is a flawed piece of legislation. We were advised yesterday in the party room of the amendments that had been achieved, and I commend Senator Henderson for her work in relation to this—I do. We shouldn't forget this is the Labor government's bill. I went through those amendments last night. I went through the legislation and there are serious flaws in this legislation. Hence, I will be crossing the floor and voting in favour of a number of amendments which I believe address those glaring flaws.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Let me give you just one example. Let me talk you through what's going to happen during the State of Origin. In my home state of Queensland, the State of Origin is the biggest sporting event during the calendar year. More than four million people watch State of Origin. When I was a little boy of six or seven years old, wild horses couldn't keep me away from the State of Origin. State of Origin kicks off at 8.05 pm. This bill says:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">… if there is a scheduled break or unscheduled break in the sporting event—any content provided on the service during the break is taken to be content in conjunction with live coverage of the sporting event.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, for the first 25 minutes of State of Origin, you can't play a gambling ad during a break when a try is scored or a penalty is kicked because it's taken to be in conjunction with live coverage of the sporting event.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">After 8.30 pm, everything changes. The provision says if there is a scheduled or unscheduled break in the sporting event after 8.30, any content provided on the service during the break is taken not to be in conjunction with live coverage of the sporting event. That's the loophole. Black becomes white after 8.30 pm. How many kids are going to be watching the State of Origin from 8.05 pm to 8.30 pm, and then go to bed at 8.30 pm? What happens at 8.30 pm? It's open slather in terms of advertising. Every time a try is scored, and there's a break: advertising. At half-time, which will be after 8.30 pm: advertising. A penalty is kicked: advertising. An injury: advertising. It is fatally flawed. So for the Prime Minister to get up and say that this is addressing advertising during live sport, when our most totemic sporting event, State of Origin, is only going to be regulated for 25 minutes out of 80 minutes is just absurd. It's an absurdity, and I won't be part of it. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to commend all of those who were involved in the Murphy report. The Murphy report was bipartisan; it was unanimous. I've read the Murphy report, and I read it again last night as I was reflecting on what I'd do in response to the amendments which the coalition had secured. The Murphy report is clear: gambling harm is a ravage through the Australian community, through Australian families. Can you believe that, on latest estimates, 600,000 kids under the age of 18 are engaging in sport betting. There are 900,000 Australians at risk in terms of gambling harm, and for every one of those there are at least one or two or three or four people impacted. Millions of Australians are impacted by gambling harm, and all we're doing by introducing this bill is changing the contours of the marketing and advertising budgets of those who are preying on the vulnerable. That's all we're doing. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Evidence—plain, unequivocal evidence—was given by gambling experts, psychiatrists, those who've studied gambling practices for decades. The evidence was clear: gambling advertising works. That's why the gambling companies use it. It's having an impact on our children. Gambling inducements work. The research is that with the use of free bets and other promotions and inducements, people gamble more. They gamble more frequently. They're at more risk of harm. That is why, as Senator Pocock said, the Murphy report was clear and unequivocal that inducements need to end immediately. In my view, we should be spending less time listening to the gambling companies and spending more time listening to those wonderful people in the Australian community who are there to pick up the pieces after the gambling companies have done their work. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to commend all of those organisations who provided evidence to this inquiry. I'd like to commend the Alliance for Gambling Reform, and I spoke to Tim Costello last night. I went through these amendments with a fine toothcomb. Senators know me. I went through these amendments with a fine toothcomb. This is what the Alliance for Gambling Reform said in their release. I'll quote it because it's important that their words are on the record of this place when senators make their decision:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Senate Inquiry into these reforms highlighted shocking cases in which gambling companies were abusing their power, offering illicit drugs, escorts and free luxury accommodation in order to keep people betting—even when their betting was completely out of control.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The reforms that will now go through the Federal Parliament are cosmetic over substance and reflect the major party's intent to prioritise power, money and vested interests over the welfare of Australians who lose more to gambling than any other country on the planet on a per capita basis.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's what Reverend Tim Costello said in relation to this package. Reverend Tim Costello has been at the coalface in relation to trying to help people suffering from gambling harm, and some of the stories he has told are absolutely heartbreaking. I commend the work of the alliance in terms of their advocacy, and I know how profoundly disappointed they must be with the outcome that we're seeing here today.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to deal with a number of other issues. As Senator Pocock said, no-one is calling for a ban on gambling. Anyone who argues that in this place is misleading the Australian public. No-one is calling for that. But this is a public health issue of the first order, and it needs to be addressed as a public health issue.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Earlier in the week, I saw a video of a psychiatrist who specialises in addictive medicine putting a gambling addict into an MRI machine to see what was happening to that gambling addict's brain when they were gambling in an MRI machine. As soon as the addict hit the bet, even before the outcome was known, their brain lit up like a Christmas tree. It lit up like a Christmas tree. Then, when they had the win, it lit up as a Christmas tree. That is the biology that is being exploited by gambling companies with their inducements and with their advertising. That is the reality.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">People can talk about responsible gambling all they want, but gambling disorder is a recognised psychiatric disorder, and it's a real thing. The tactics the gambling companies use mean that people are spending money they can't afford, potentially not feeding their family and kids, and suffering devastating mental health consequences as a result of their gambling.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Today, I will be crossing the floor for only the second time I've done so in this place in seven years. I do not do so lightly. I'll be crossing the floor to support a number of Senator Pocock's amendments, including his amendments for there to be a true independent statutory review in relation to the operation of these provisions. I commend Senator Pocock in relation to that amendment, which calls for—and I wouldn't have thought this to be a novel idea—actual experts in relation to gambling harm and its impact on the young and the vulnerable to be the ones who actually engage in the review in three years time. I have no confidence whatsoever, given what we've seen in this legislation with respect to any review that is orchestrated by the Labor government. I have no confidence at all. Any review must be open, it must be transparent, and it must be presided over by experts.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, today, I'll be voting with St Vincent de Paul, who helps people who have suffered from gambling harm and their families. I'll be voting with the Salvation Army. I'll be voting with Anglicare. I'll be voting with Suicide Prevention Australia, who have talked about the impact of gambling in terms of rates of attempted suicide and suicide. I'll be voting with Relationships Australia, which has to deal with the consequences of relationships falling apart as a result of gambling. I'll be voting with Financial Counselling Australia as well, because they've also got to try and put the pieces back together. I'll be voting with the legion—and there is a legion—of experts in relation to gambling. There's a legion of them who have provided the evidence, which is not reflected in this bill. It's not reflected in this bill. This isn't an evidence based bill. It's some sort of awful compromise which doesn't achieve any substantial change.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll be voting with those experts. I'll be voting with the psychiatrists and the medical practitioners and the addiction treatment specialists who all wrote to the inquiry. I'll be voting with them. Most of all, I'll be voting for those people with lived experience of gambling harm, who have been the prey of these predatory companies. I'll be voting for them and I'll be voting for their families.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>28</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Walker, Sen Charlotte</name>
                <name.id>316818</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="316818" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WALKER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">11:49</span>):  I'd like to begin with something that will be very familiar to pretty much everyone my age or younger. Gambling ads are literally everywhere. When you watch the footy, they're there. When you scroll on Instagram, they're there. When you listen to a podcast or open a streaming service, there they are. Sometimes it feels like you can't engage with sport in this country without someone, somewhere, trying to get you to put money on it. For a lot of young Australians that has been the case for, basically, our whole lives. We have grown up with betting companies as sponsors, with odds appearing during sports coverage, with celebrities and athletes promoting betting companies and with gambling apps sitting on the same phone we use to message friends, check our bank account, order dinner and watch the footy. It has all become incredibly normal, so now there's a whole generation of Australians who have never known sport without gambling advertising attached to it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is something many of the young Australians I meet say over and over again. It comes up nearly as frequently as issues like housing and cost of living. Most young people understand perfectly well that adults are allowed to gamble. What they question is why gambling has to be pushed at us relentlessly. Why does watching a game mean we need to hear the odds? Why should betting companies be able to follow people across the internet? Why should celebrities and influencers be selling gambling products? And why have we allowed gambling to become so deeply embedded in Australian sport that sometimes it's difficult to tell where one ends and where the other begins? We should be able to love sport without being constantly encouraged to gamble on it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A kid watching their first AFL game should be thinking about whether they want to play footy themselves one day, who their favourite player is or whether their team can come back in the final quarter. They do not need to know the odds. They don't need to understand a multi. They do not need betting to become part of what following a sport looks like. This is something that the Labor Party has recognised. At the national conference our platform specifically acknowledged that children and young people face a heightened risk of gambling harm and committed us to strengthening inducement protections. The research backs up what young people are telling us, which is that exposure to wagering advertising has been associated with more positive attitudes to gambling, greater intentions to gamble and increased gambling activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is also evidence of a dose-response relationship, where, the more gambling advertising people are exposed to, the greater the risk of participation and harm. We're talking about the repeated exposure of gambling advertising across different platforms for years. You see betting advertising on TV and then you open your phone and you see it again. You see a betting company associated with your favourite team, your favourite competition, a celebrity you like or an influencer you follow, and the product being advertised is available instantly. There's no need to go anywhere. You can place a bet while sitting on your couch, waiting for a bus or lying in bed. That is a very different gambling environment from the one our laws were originally designed around.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We have also heard from people and groups working on the front line of gambling harm. Their experience of gambling looks very different from the one we see in ads. These ads are usually fun. There are mates, there's sport, there's excitement, and someone is having a laugh. You don't see somebody staring at their bank account after losing the money they needed for rent. You don't see someone trying to work out how to tell their partner about a debt they've been hiding. You don't see the argument with family, the anxiety, the shame or the stress. You definitely don't see the people working in support services, trying to help someone put their life back together when their gambling has gotten completely out of control. Frontline advocates see those consequences every day and, a lot of the time, by the time somebody reaches out for help, a lot of harm has already happened. There may be debt, financial stress or relationships under enormous pressure.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That is also why inducements are such an important part of these reforms. For someone who has a bet occasionally, an inducement may look fairly chill, but for someone whose gambling is becoming a problem, being offered another incentive to bet can be incredibly harmful. Betting companies have enormous amounts of information about their customers. They know who's betting, how often they are betting and how their behaviour is changing. These reforms will require that information to be used to help protect people who may be vulnerable, rather than on encouraging them to bet more. This government's amendments will ban inducements for the first 14 days after somebody signs up with a gambling company. They will ban the direct marketing of inducements to customers who have been identified as at risk of gambling harm. They will ban direct marketing of inducements for 90 days after someone deregisters from BetStop. They will also ban commissions to staff or affiliates that are based on customer gambling activity.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These are important protections at exactly the moments when somebody may be particularly vulnerable. For a long time, conversations about gambling harm focused heavily on individual responsibility. We were told to gamble responsibly. Of course, people make their own choices, but government also makes choices about the environment in which industry operates. We decide what can be advertised and where, we decide what protections companies have to put in place, and we decide what happens when companies break those rules. These bills make significant changes to the way wagering advertising and online gambling are regulated in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the central objectives is to break down the connection between wagering and sport. The bill will prohibit wagering advertising in conjunction with live sporting events, with restrictions applying across television, radio and online services. The government's amendments strengthen this further by extending the blackout period before live sport from five minutes to 15 minutes. They also bring forward the commencement of the wagering advertising frequency cap and live sport restrictions from 6 am to 5 am. That means no more than three wagering ads each hour on broadcast television between 5 am and 8.30 pm, with a complete ban during live sport broadcasting during those hours. Wagering advertising on radio will also be prohibited during school drop-off and pick-up times.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Importantly, what Australians see on television should broadly match their experience online. The current protections in the Commercial Television Industry Code of Practice will be enshrined in law and extended to online streaming services. The rules applying to gambling advertising during children's programming will also be enshrined in legislation. Online services will only be able to provide wagering ads when they take reasonable steps to ensure they are not being shown to restricted users. Users will need to be logged into a registered account, confirmed as over 18 years old and given a clear way to opt out of gambling advertising.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The government is strengthening that further through a new wagering advertising opt out register, a one-stop shop where Australians can choose not to see gambling ads and have that choice applied across their online services. For services operating under the triple lock system, that opt-out choice will also have to be prominently displayed. People should not have to dig through five menus and a page of fine print just to tell platforms they do not want to see gambling ads. The gambling industry will pay for the operation of that register through a levy. I think that this is entirely reasonable. The cost of protections introduced in response to a gambling harm should not simply be shifted onto taxpayers while the companies profiting from gambling walk away from the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is particularly relevant to young Australians because TV is only one part of how we consume media now. We're watching videos on YouTube, we're using streaming services, we're listening to podcasts and music, and we're scrolling on social media—sometimes all at the same time. There would be little point in having restrictions on the TV in the living room while the same advertising simply migrates to the phone in your hand.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Another part of this bill I particularly welcome is the restriction on using notable people to promote wagering. That includes professional athletes, celebrities, influencers and other prominent people. This is very relevant to younger audiences. The way influence works has changed enormously in the past 10 years. A young person might barely notice someone appearing in a traditional TV ad, but they might spend hours every week watching a particular creator online. They might have followed that person for years on Instagram or TikTok, or listen to their podcasts, so when that person recommends a product, the message can land very differently from a traditional TV ad.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill also prohibits the promotion of odds in wagering advertising. For too long odds have been treated like another sport statistic: 'Here is the injury list. Here is the ladder. Here is the weather. And here are the odds.' We have become so used to hearing it that it barely registers anymore, but we can enjoy sport perfectly well without gambling odds being woven through the experience.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This legislation will also prohibit wagering advertising on sporting uniforms and sporting venues. Sport occupies a pretty special place in Australian life. For young people, local sporting clubs are places where friendships are made, communities are built and people spend enormous amounts of their childhood and teenage years. Reducing the pressure of gambling advertising in those spaces is a good thing.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill also strengthens BetStop, Australia’s national self-exclusion register. Since BetStop launched in August 2023, more than 54,000 people have registered to exclude themselves from licensed online and phone wagering services. Behind those numbers are tens of thousands of Australians who have decided they need to put some distance between themselves and gambling. Making that decision can be incredibly difficult. Once somebody has taken that step, the system should help them stick with it. And we should recognise that the period immediately after somebody leaves BetStop can also be a vulnerable one. That is why the government’s amendments will prevent wagering providers from directly marketing inducements to a customer for 90 days after they deregister. If somebody has taken the step of saying, 'I need to stop gambling,' the last thing they need is a gambling company immediately trying to pull them back in.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These reforms also deal with illegal offshore gambling. Whenever stronger gambling regulation is proposed, we hear the argument that people will simply move to illegal operators. I do not accept that as an argument for keeping weaker protections around licensed gambling. These reforms strengthen enforcement against illegal offshore providers, including stronger powers for ACMA. Social media services will also be required to ensure they only serve advertisements from licensed wagering providers in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill also responds to newer forms of online gambling. Gambling products evolve quickly and our regulation needs to keep pace. There will, of course, continue to be debate about whether this package goes far enough. We know the 2023 parliamentary inquiry recommended a comprehensive phase-out of online gambling advertising. We know many public health experts and gambling harm advocates continue to support a complete advertising ban, and I've heard from other young people who would happily see gambling advertising disappear altogether, and I think those views should be taken seriously. And, importantly, this government has continued listening throughout this process.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Following the introduction of the bill, concerns raised through the Senate inquiry and by parliamentarians have resulted in further changes to strengthen these reforms. That is how this process should work. These amendments give us stronger protections around inducements. They extend the live sport blackout. They strengthen protections for children watching streaming services. They give Australians a clearer and more comprehensive way to opt out of wagering advertising. They strengthen action against illegal operators and they made the gambling industry contribute to the cost of the protections we're putting in place. These are worthwhile reforms, and I support the bills.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>30</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Waters, Sen Larissa</name>
                <name.id>192970</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="192970" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATERS</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:04</span>):  I rise to speak on the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, a bill that the Greens have opposed from the moment it was introduced by Labor.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Every member of Labor should hang their heads in shame today. They say that the house always wins, and, boy, are they winning big today with this deal between Labor and the Liberals to deliver for the gambling industry. With this cowardly deal, the Prime Minister has abandoned vulnerable Australians and given predatory gambling companies the freedom to keep overrunning our sport, our screens and every aspect of our lives.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Murphy report was clear:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Gambling advertising is grooming children and young people to gamble and encourages riskier behaviour. The torrent of advertising is inescapable. It is manipulating an impressionable and vulnerable audience to gamble online.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Three years on from this landmark report, after doing nothing for three whole years, we get this embarrassing excuse for gambling reform, the weakest possible version. It's a semblance of action done in a way that actually delivers for the gambling industry. How very Labor. This is claytons reform that actually just delivers for their donors, the gambling industry—the same industry that, in the last five years alone, have donated $4 million to the Labor Party. They're having a bet each way because they've also donated $2 million to the coalition. They're having a bet each way, buying policy inaction for three years and now buying a weak and ineffective response from government that was three years too late and is too little, too late.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's the inducement that should be banned, as my colleague Senator Hanson-Young, who's done an excellent job on this for the Greens, said. The political donations that the gambling industry uses to buy the complicity of the Labor and Liberal parties is the inducement that should be banned. Boy, haven't they won big today. These laws will not work to protect Australian families. They will allow the gambling companies to continue with business as usual.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill doesn't implement the Murphy report recommendations; it is the very half measures that that report warned against. There's no national regulator—a recommendation ignored. There's no total ban on gambling ads. Three an hour is three too many. It is the ultimate half measure, and it will not work. The minimal amendments that the Liberal Party have extracted don't fully address the inducements that prey on folk that have a gambling addiction—and there are so many of them. Our heart goes out to them. We should be helping them, not condemning them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill still relies on an opt-out model for gambling ads instead of putting people in control with an opt-in function that they could choose, if they wish. I bet barely anyone would because no-one likes these ads, they're sick of them, and they want them gone. You two have colluded to deliver for the gambling industry. The Liberals think they're really clever at creating some new powers for ACMA to administer what is basically a 'do not call' register for the internet. Does anyone think that's going to work? It's costly, and it's not going to work. The only guarantee that people have to not be spammed with gambling ads would have been to give them the right, like the Murphy report recommendation suggested, to choose to opt in, rather than having to opt out or having to send an email to ACMA, hoping they can somehow put some parameters on the internet. It doesn't match this century.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">After this bill passes with bipartisan support, Australians will still be the biggest gambling losers on the planet. Did you know we've got gambling losses of $666 million every week? Generations of Australians who've suffered through the gambling industry's bombardment will still have the ads relentlessly following them. With this dirty deal, Labor and the Liberals have teamed up to leave your living rooms, your cars, YouTube and even your kids' Spotify playlists at the mercy of gambling corporations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The predatory behaviours of the gambling corporations were laid bare through days of devastating testimony from people with a gambling addiction, from experts and from advocates. But, instead of actually taking that on board and listening and then making changes that are based on evidence to protect people, we get this pathetic policy, this absolute capitulation to the gambling industry, who donate to both sides of politics. Even some of the Liberal backbenchers are crossing the floor because this bill is too weak, and I commend them for doing so. I salute their moral stance. They're taking a stronger stance than the Labor government's—how pathetic! How will you go back to your electorates and explain that, instead of working for people, you've backed in laws that only benefit the gambling industry?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Last time I checked, the job of any government is meant to be to look after people, but Labor seems to have completely forgotten that, and they seem to have forgotten that they shouldn't be supporting an industry that is making massive profits off people's pain and misery and loss and, in some cases, their lives. You're not meant to be here to run a protection racket for corporations that have offered people with a gambling addiction drugs, booze and sex workers to keep on spending. You're not meant to be here to deliver for the companies that have breached the law over 500 times in the last three years. Oh, but you can't do anything about that, because you took too long to investigate and because there still won't be a national regulator. Instead, every chance they get, Labor bends the knee to their wealthy donors. They side with big corporations, and they leave Australians behind.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Whenever Labor and Liberal team up to rush through dodgy legislation, it means one thing: it's good for rich corporations and it's bad for people. These two parties have taken, as I said, over $6 million in donations from the gambling lobby in the last five years, so of course they will gang up to pass through weak gambling laws that will not protect Australians but will protect the profits of those donors. Corporate donations are the fatal flaw of the Labor Party. When they come under lobbyist pressure, they fold every single time. A vote for Labor is a vote for the vested interests that they protect. A vote for the Greens is a vote for people. Think about it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>31</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
                <name.id>300134</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300134" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CADELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:12</span>):  It's interesting to rise to talk on the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026 and to hear what is said on the other side. It's been an interesting thing for me as we've gone through this process, because what was presented by this government was clearly unacceptable in its original form. I compliment Senator Henderson for undertaking this in a good way and talking with government about how it needed to be better, but we were coming from a position of weakness, where there was a 'if you don't like it, walk away with what we've got' mentality. Tightening up, to some extent, on what we've done has improved this bill. We know it's not perfect. We know it'll never be perfect. There are people suffering every day. We heard those examples in the committee. But, equally, people suffer from all of the things across our country, and, when they can't all be removed, they can't all be protected from themselves. That's a real sad thing in this.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For me, when we talk of many things in this world—things like smoking, things like vaping and things like gambling—regulation has seen that we should do more and could do more yet often leads to perverse outcomes. We've seen that with smoking now. The tax is there to encourage people not to smoke, to go out there not to buy cigarettes, but it's come to the point where we're now virtually responsible for a massive organised crime wave and profitability as they sell illegal tobacco on the market. We've seen vapes that are virtually illegal but for a prescription model that isn't working in this country fail. People are now buying imported vapes from China that have no restrictions on what is in them, no restrictions on who they are sold to, and they are out there in the market. So I see the point that overregulation has failed to protect many Australians, and there needs to be some personal responsibility.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think this compromise goes a long way to getting that personal responsibility and putting that into the bill. I think it is a good thing that we have done that. Of course, there will always be horror stories, as there are with any product or anything in the world. People can abuse many things, and hearing them was average. So overall that is all I will say on the substantive motion, the bill, given the time. I know I have about 30 seconds to go before we go into continuation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But I will have more to say after this because I think there have been deals done. I think the Greens are right—certainly there have been some deals done around how this has happened, not all of them good and not all of them positive. Most of them aren't. I think the government are protecting some of their mates and certainly punishing some people out there in the world, through how they've gone about this and how they've engaged. And that does need to be brought out. When you are making things tighter because of Murphy and loosening things because of Murphy, that is not consistent. I'll talk more about that later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="274506" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Sharma</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  It being 12.15, I'll now proceed to senators' statements. Senator Cadell, you will be in continuation.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>32</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>274506</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>32</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT (Senator Sharma):</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with informal arrangements for speaking times arranged and agreed by the whips.</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Artificial Intelligence</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>32</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cox, Sen Dorinda</name>
              <name.id>296215</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="296215" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COX</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:15</span>):  Artificial intelligence is rapidly changing the world around us, and it's one of the most significant technological advances in modern history. AI will act as a defining marker for prosperous and secure countries, completely transforming the landscape of competitive advantage. It will draw a clear line between the nations that thrive and those that fall behind.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In capturing those opportunities of AI, our nation is at an existential juncture. It is, in fact, a sliding doors moment. In the first half of 2025, data centres and their computing equipment represented about four per cent of the US economy yet drove an extraordinary 92 per cent of its economic growth. Without this growth, the economy in the US rounds down to, in fact, zero. There is no longer a question of whether the AI boom will happen. It's happening, it's happening here and it's moving quickly. The question is whether Australia shapes its future or whether we let the future of AI shape us.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Capturing these opportunities cannot mean leaving people behind. We must make sure that the transformation works for everyone, and that is at the heart of the government's National AI Plan. Our ambition is not simply for Australia to use more AI but to build Australian capability, lifting living standards and making sure this technology develops in line with our interests and our values. We have every reason to be ambitious. We have world-class researchers and innovative Australian businesses, and we have some of the best solar and wind resources on Earth. We have the land to harness them at scale, and we have skilled tradespersons to turn that potential into power.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But natural advantages do not automatically become national prosperity. Australia has learned that lesson before. A boom can happen on our shores without enough of its value staying here. Investment can flow in while the benefits flow out. If a government waits until the costs are being felt by households and communities, the damage will be much harder to undo. We cannot afford to repeat those mistakes with AI. This time, Australia must set the terms from the beginning. This means building data centres and computing infrastructure that will power an AI economy while ensuring they contribute to the country that, in fact, hosts them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I know data centres have become one of the most contested pieces of economic infrastructure around the world. Some see data centres as the engine rooms for our next industrial revolution, the foundations on which Australia can build new industries, new wealth and greater sovereignty. To others they are nothing more than great big warehouses full of computers, drawing heavily on our power grids and water supply, red flags of mistakes made in the past of booms that enriched Australia without always enriching Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Each of those views captures part of the truth, but neither on its own provides a path that serves Australia's national interests. It is our job as a government to see the wood apart from the trees, to hold both sides of the argument as part of our decision-making process, and to make sure that artificial intelligence is in Australia's interests.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have quietly become one of the most attractive destinations in the world for these projects. We sit in the middle of a Venn diagram that offers a combination of political stability, Five Eyes security and an unrivalled potential for renewable power. To ensure we seize this opportunity while benefiting Australians, our government has set some strong expectations. We expect them to bring their own new renewable power so that they add clean generation rather than compete for what's already there. We expect them to pay their fair share of transmission and distribution costs so that their costs are not subsidised by the family down the road. And we expect them to provide flexibility with demand to help keep our power grids steady. These expectations make sure that the infrastructure of the AI age is built on Australian terms. But our responsibility does not end at the doors of a data centre, because most Australians will never step inside one. They encounter what comes out of them, and this in fact will impact on the workplaces and services they rely on and the information they consume—and, increasingly, in the decisions that shape their lives.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These are the moments that will determine whether Australians trust AI and whether they believe this transformation is happening with them or simply being done to them. Australians need to know that embracing AI will not come at the expense of their jobs, their privacy, their safety and, also, their creative work. That is why the rules must keep pace with the technology. If a company puts an AI product into the hands of Australians, it should carry a duty to make sure that that product is safe. If an AI system relies on our personal information, our privacy laws must be strong enough to protect it. If AI changes an Australian workplace, workers deserve a seat at the table and a voice in how that change happens. If governments use systems to aid in decision-making, those decisions must remain fair, accurate and open to explanation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That is why the Albanese Labor government is establishing Australian standards for AI, and why we've established an office of AI at the centre of government to drive this implementation. We are moving to legislate a digital duty of care, placing responsibility for safety where it belongs—with the companies who are in fact building these products. Privacy reform is being progressed to strengthen the protection of Australia's personal information.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">AI safety is now a national workplace priority, bringing unions, employers and governments together to shape how this technology is introduced. A new framework is being developed for the automated decisions made by federal agencies, and our government is standing up for Australian writers, artists and journalists, whose work should never be taken from them and handed to an algorithm without their control. Behind all this, the Australian AI Safety Institute will act as an early warning system, testing emerging technology and identifying risks before they spread, often referred to as 'sandboxing', and giving Australians the confidence and trust that someone is looking beyond the promise of what AI can deliver.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To the consequences of what happens when it goes wrong: trust is not a barrier to standing in the way of innovation. Trust is what allows innovation to take root. Without it, Australians will not embrace this technology. Without it, businesses will struggle to adopt it. Without it, the opportunity sitting before Australia will remain exactly that—an opportunity but not an achievement. In the words of my good friend the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Tim Ayres:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The biggest risk from AI may not be adopting it. The biggest risk may be being left behind.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Child Care</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Child Care</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>33</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Sullivan, Sen Matt</name>
              <name.id>283585</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="283585" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'SULLIVAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:23</span>):  I want to talk about child care, and the future of safety in child care. Child care is central to the lives of over a million Australian families. It affects whether parents can go to work, can afford to have another child and can feel confident about the care their children receive. When we talk about child care, we should talk more about that than the subsidies we're spending. We should talk about the care and the quality of that education and the quality of that care. We should be talking about families, quality, choice and, most importantly, the wellbeing of children.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Former treasurer Peter Costello said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">Debt-free government is the best youth policy you will ever come across.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to extend that principle and say that good economic policy is good family policy. Families feel the economy in their mortgage or their rent. They feel it at the supermarket, in their power bill and whether they feel secure enough to have their first child or even have another one. A sound economy gives families something no subsidy can replace: confidence in the future.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In 2024, Australia's fertility rate fell to 1.48 children per woman. Yet HILDA data shows that, in 2023, Australian women reported wanting on average around 2.09 children. So the aspiration of women and families is actually higher than what they are able to or feel comfortable to achieve. Around 80 per cent of Australians aged 18 to 49 said that the cost of raising children was an important or very important factor when deciding whether to have a child. Australians have not simply stopped wanting children. There is a growing gap between the families Australians want and the families they feel they can afford.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">For many households, living on one income is simply not realistic. Many mothers have shared with me that they would love to have more children and would love to stay home longer after having their baby to care for their newborn, to recover physically and to return to work when they feel ready. Often during this period, dads carry much of the financial responsibility for the household, but those early weeks matter for fathers too—to support Mum, to stay at home to be with their newborn and to build those early family bonds. But most families feel that they simply cannot afford it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Government paid parental leave is paid at the national minimum wage for a family with a mortgage or rent to pay. That can be a very significant hit. Some fathers rely on annual leave to return and work earlier than the family would otherwise choose. The mum may also return to work not because she is ready but because the bills still need to be paid. If they secure a childcare place so both parents can work, another substantial cost is added. They can find themselves wanting and working more and paying more and feeling like they're getting less, though. This is not genuine choice.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's been in government now for more than four years. These are their budgets, their spending decisions, and Australian families are paying the price. There is a better way. Families should not have to accept that what they're experiencing now is the new normal. The coalition has a different economic plan: the tax-back guarantee, a future generations fund linking migration to housing supply and putting a speed limit on government spending. We know that stronger economic management is possible because a coalition government has done it before. When the Howard government came to office, Commonwealth net debt had reached 18.5 per cent of GDP, and by 2005-06 the Howard and Costello government had eliminated net debt. A coalition government got Australia there once before; a coalition government can get us there again. Labor's own budget forecasts that Commonwealth debt of $616.6 billion by June 2027 will grow to a gross debt of $1.051 trillion. We in the coalition have the leadership. We've got the experience and the plan to help Australians get ahead.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But I'll go back to child care. Too often child care is discussed as an economic instrument for workforce participation, subsidy rates and productivity. But, above all, what matters most is the experience and the development of a child. So when we call a service high quality, what do we actually mean? The national quality standards largely assess structural quality—the staffing ratios, the educator qualifications, the governance and the physical environment. But research indicates process quality, the actual interactions between an educator and a child, can be even more important. Does an educator notice distress? Do they respond with warmth and sensitivity? Is there stability in that relationship? Do they engage and encourage that child? Those interactions are harder to capture on a compliance checklist, but they matter and are incredibly important nonetheless.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The E4Kids study, the largest Australian observational study of childcare quality, followed 2,494 children across Queensland and Victoria. Trained observers went into the rooms children attended and assessed the quality of the interactions that were taking place. Across all settings and locations, only one per cent of children experienced instructional support assessed as high quality. This is a relevant element, most closely associated with cognitive and academic growth. Another Australian study comparing 104 services found direct observational measures of educator-child interactions were consistently lower than the National Quality Standard ratings suggested. This is not an argument to abandon the National Quality Framework; it's a reminder that regulatory compliance is a baseline, not a complete measure of a child's experience.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While the overwhelming majority of educators can and should be trusted, not everyone who seeks access to children does so with good intentions. Parents deserve to know who has access to their children, and that they will not be the last to know when something goes wrong. This is why the coalition has called for a nationally coordinated childcare perpetrator register. Parents should have timely and legally appropriate information about people charged with, or convicted of, child sexual offences, including relevant early childhood employment history. A charge is not a conviction, and any register must respect procedural fairness and the presumption of innocence. But those principles should not leave parents searching newspaper reports and social media to work out whether an alleged offender worked at their childcare centre. Parents deserve a reliable source of truth.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But where is the government on this? Six weeks ago, deeply disturbing allegations involving people who had worked in child care sent shockwaves through families across Australia. In the weeks since, parents have understandably been asking questions about who is caring for their children, what information they are entitled to know and whether safeguards that we have in place are strong enough. Yet what has been most striking is not what the ministers responsible for child care have said; it's the fact that they've said nothing at all. The Prime Minister; Minister for Education, Jason Clare; and Minister for Early Childhood Education, Senator Jess Walsh, who's in this place, are front and centre when there is good news to announce about child care, but they are missing in action when it comes to actually dealing with this particular issue. Six weeks have passed, and we've not heard a single peep. I've not seen a single direct public response from any of the three to our proposals for a national childcare perpetrator register. There's been no direct acknowledgement of the fear and uncertainty that families are experiencing—no answer.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It's a simple question: what more will you do as a government to ensure that parents have the information that they need? We need a government that's going to step up to the plate and provide what Australian families need, what parents are looking for. They want confidence. They want trust in their childcare system. Government, please deliver it. We need it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing, Brisbane: Environment, Queensland: Youth Justice</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Brisbane: Environment</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Queensland: Youth Justice</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>35</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>298839</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:33</span>):  In the last week we've been inundated with headlines and stories of property managers and landlords declaring that any changes to the tens of billions of dollars they receive in tax concessions will result in rent hikes. In fact, we've seen reporting showing that rents have increased, including in my home state of Queensland.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a grave threat not just to the renters who are now saddled with even more burden in a cost-of-living crisis but to our democracy itself. We have a privatised housing system that has vested so much power in the hands of property developers and landlords. They are essentially holding the government hostage under the threat of rent increases. Either we continue to give them tens of billions in tax concessions and safeguard their enormous profits, or they use their power to make renters hurt for it. This is the reaction of the landlords and developers to even inadequate reforms to negative gearing. What does it say about our housing system that we are deep into catastrophic housing unaffordability with an entire generation set to be locked out of homeownership and that now we know that, if anything is done about it by our government, they will punish renters?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It is too often said that the rental market has raised prices—'the market is reacting to this or that'. No, people raised prices. People made the decision that their profits are more important than the renters and workers that need a roof over their heads. This is a particularly blatant exercise of their power. We need a rent freeze and we need to build massive amounts of public housing. We need to take power back for renters, for workers and for ordinary people. The Greens are fighting to guarantee permanent affordability, not one that waxes and wanes and endlessly trends towards ripping renters off.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">$3.8 billion has been ripped from Queenslanders. When Queenslanders are homeless, our state government is spending $3.8 billion not on housing and not on cost-of-living relief but on a stadium. Sixty-four hectares of inner city parkland and sacred First Nations land will be lost forever. Earlier this week, Yagara elders took the fight to protect Barrambin to Canberra. Barrambin, also known as Victoria Park, is a public heritage listed greenspace in Brisbane that is being destroyed as we speak. The clearing of over 200 trees across a matter of days is an environmental emergency. Ten of those trees were over 200 years old, carrying a significant historical and cultural significance, marking a time pre-colonisation. This destruction is occurring on unceded First Nations land. It is a sacred site.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In May, to enforce the LNP state government's agenda, Queensland Police forcibly and violently disrupted an Aboriginal ceremony to dismantle the Barrambin djar and Goori Camp Embassy, in violation of Queensland's Human Rights Act. But Yagara traditional custodians, the Save Victoria Park movement and the Queensland Greens will not give up the fight. On 5 August, the Yagara Magandjin Aboriginal Corporation lodged an application with the federal government for permanent legal protection for Barrambin. All of us in this place have a responsibility to preserve our environment and to honour First Nations sovereignty. I call on federal Labor to stop the desecration of this sacred site.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In the Redlands, on Brisbane's bayside, a wealthy private school where members of Queensland's LNP government send their kids is wiping out threatened koala habitat to build sports fields and new boarding facilities. There are 650 trees on this site which sits within a designated koala habitat and koala priority area. If this deforestation continues, it will wreck an important wildlife corridor and destroy habitat relied on by endangered koalas. I've  visited this site and I've met with the community. I've seen Leaf and her joey high up in a eucalyptus tree, just metres from men with chainsaws and excavation equipment. I watched as the local police fined passers-by for offering support of beeps of their horns to the protesters.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Environment minister Murray Watt gave the go-ahead for this destruction, despite more than 500 community submissions offering detailed and legitimate objections. What is the point of environment laws if they don't protect the environment, and what is the point of an environment minister if he can't even do the primary job he's meant to do? Senator Waters and I wrote to Senator Watt to ask him why he decided to give the go-ahead to Ormiston. What was his response? The college had concluded that significant impacts were unlikely to occur. Tell that to the koalas.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Centuries of barely regulated clearing and development have left Queensland's koala population on death's door. In the Redlands, the koala population has collapsed by about 80 per cent since the early 2000s, with fewer than 500 koalas remaining on the mainland. There is no community licence for this development and absolutely no support, and opposition is growing. More than 20,000 people have signed a petition calling on the school to stop clearing the site, and there are more and more demonstrations planned. The Greens support the community and their fight, and we won't give up with you.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On Friday, Queensland's Justice, Integrity and Community Safety Committee delivered its report into the state government's Youth Justice (Circuit Breaker) Amendment Bill 2026, which serves up the reheated leftovers of Queensland LNP's failed youth boot-camp program. This bill proposes to send children as young as 10 and who have not yet been convicted of a crime to a remote location away from family to do forced activities and programs. This can include free labour, which is just a nicer term for slave labour. When people are forced into free-work arrangements against their will, it acts as a perverse incentive to criminalise more children, who, again, have not had their case heard in court and who have not yet been convicted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Children will be confined to a remote, highly surveilled and controlled coercive setting, but these settings aren't proposed to be subject to inspections or reporting. More than that, there's an exemption to reporting obligations for actual or suspected harm to a child participating in circuit-breaker programs if the report might tend to incriminate the institution. Last I checked, physical and sexual abuse was a crime. How is there any situation where a report of harm will not incriminate the institution? Why on earth would this exemption exist in the proposed legislation unless it was deliberately aiding and abetting the abuse of our children?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Victims' Commissioner's submission on the bill specifically refers to the cycle of crime in which many young offenders are caught as victims themselves. Ironically, rather than breaking that cycle, this bill will perpetuate it. Youth offending will go up. When the Queensland state government is giving the green light for the abuse of children, tearing them away from everything that has been proven to stop youth offending—family, community, schooling and safe housing—those children are going to come out of these facilities angry, traumatised and disconnected from their communities. Victims of crime deserve safety, but this is not the answer.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senior Australians</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Senior Australians</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>36</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ruston, Sen Anne</name>
              <name.id>243273</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="243273" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator RUSTON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:42</span>):  There is a generation of Australians who built this country. They worked, they paid their taxes, they raised their families, and they were told that, if they did the right thing, the country would look after them when they needed it. This week, older Australians learned what that promise is worth to this government because this is a government that has decided which Australians are worth looking after and which are to be left behind. There is a carefully chosen list of Australians the government wants to carry with it to the next election, and older Australians have been left standing at the kerb watching the bus pull away and left behind. Let me be clear about something: this was not an accident. The government has chosen it. It is a deliberate design feature of its policies.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When the health minister announced he would strip the additional private health insurance rebate away from older Australians, he did not hide his reasoning. He said older Australians should no longer receive support based on their age. He called it fairness between the generations. There's nothing fair about singling out three million older Australians—most of them on modest incomes and nearly one million of them full pensioners—and telling them they have to pay more for their health care. From 2027, around three million older Australians will lose the higher rebate. Many will pay hundreds of dollars more and some as much as $640 a year more. Seventy per cent of all insured older Australians earn $55,000 a year or less—all 2.24 million of them. These are not the wealthy but pensioners and self-funded retirees on fixed incomes. They took out private health cover because they were told it was the right thing to do, and now they're been punished for it. Tens of thousands will be pushed out of private care altogether. That change, by the government's own admission, is likely to cost the public system more than the savings the federal government is making. It's just a cost shift.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Private health is only one front. At the very same time, in aged care, this government has treated older Australians exactly the same way. It has sent them to the back of the queue. Right now, more than 100,000 older Australians are on the national priority system waiting for a home-care package, and that's just the number they want you to know about. The real number, the number Minister Rae was exposed trying to hide last week, is a full 50 per cent, or 50,000 people, more. The tricky minister and his untrustworthy government doesn't want to count the people who've only been provided with part of their package. They said they didn't change the methodology and then they were embarrassed, having to come back and correct the minister's mistake. It was an admission that they had lied. The median wait from being assessed for care to actually receiving it is 10 months. Tragically, last year, more than 4,800 older Australians died waiting for the care that this government had assessed they needed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">At the front of that queue sits a computer. This week, Australians watched <span style="font-style:italic;">Four Corners</span> on the ABC and saw what this government has built. A faceless algorithm, the integrated assessment tool, decides how much care an older Australian receives. It asks more than 500 questions, then ignores most of the answers, and no trained professional is allowed to override it even when they see it has got it wrong. On Monday night, Australians met Audrey, 96 years old, blind and with emphysema and living on her own. She was assessed in person, and yet the government still refused to provide her with the support that she needed. Her daughter appealed. The appeal was sent to a post office box and was never answered. Audrey is not the exception. Tragically, under this government, she is the rule. Pay more, wait longer and get less.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Don't take my word for it. Professor Kathy Eagar, one of the country's most respected health researchers, examined this tool and said that it cannot be fixed with tweaking and that it needs to be scrapped and started again. It's an automated system that decides your fate and leaves the individual to prove it wrong. The ombudsman is now investigating. Appeals have run at six times the rate of the previous year. This is not a system settling in. This is a system failing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">At estimates, the department confirmed it all. Removing human override was a budget decision made in 2024-25 to save money. The tool was never clinically validated and never trialled in a live environment. No older person, no provider and no advocate was consulted before they switched it on. When we asked to see the advice behind that decision, the government refused to provide it. The minister said that it would take 360 hours to review the documents, and hinted that they might be protected because they'd gone to cabinet. If this algorithm decision went to cabinet, then the Prime Minister was in the room. Australians deserve to know whether Anthony Albanese personally signed off on the decision that has denied care to thousands upon thousands of older Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You do not need cabinet documents to see the human cost. Let me tell you about Lana Hamdorf. Lana asked for help from a hospital bed. Eight months later, she's still there. Lana is paralysed from the waist down. For years, her husband cared for her until his own health failed and he died in care. Living alone, she had a fall—a broken hip and a torn shoulder—and nearly died. She fought back through rehabilitation and has made it home, but she's unable to get into bed or reach the stove without help. She was assessed and denied the support that she needed. A second assessment, a reassessment, finally approved her for the highest level of care that existed, and then the algorithm handed her a medium priority in terms of the urgency of that care. That meant an eight- to nine-month wait. Her family cut back on her care and her meals just to stay within their budget. They advised me that they'd raised the matter with the minister, but nothing changed, and so the tragic saga unfolded.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Lana's family applied for a reassessment and pleaded to have Lana's case treated as a high priority. I wrote to the minister on her behalf. He said on television that he is always happy to follow up personally. In Lana's case, what did the minister do? He did follow up. He said no. Strangely, though, his own department delegate admitted that the family had been right all along. Lana's priority should've been high. That decision came on 12 August. Today, Lana still has no date as to when her new care arrangements will kick into place.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government is presiding over a slow-motion car crash in aged care, and every day older Australians and their families are paying the price. The coalition has offered this government a way out. We introduced a simple, practical bill—the Aged Care Amendment (Restoring Human Override for Aged Care Needs Assessments) Bill 2026—to restore human override to aged-care assessments and to put a trained professional back in charge in order to give older Australians the right to have a real person look at their case. We passed it through the Senate. What did Labor do? They tried to vote it down, but they failed. In the other place they didn't just vote it down; they won't even let it be debated.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's be honest about what fairness between the generations really means under this government. It means older Australians pay more for their health cover. It means they wait longer for the care that they've been assessed as needing and that they've been promised. It means they get less when that care finally comes, and when the computer gets it wrong no human is being allowed to fix the mistake. The generation that built this country is not asking for special treatment. They're asking for a fair go. They're asking that a real person, not a computer, decides what care they get and how urgently they receive it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">A computer should never have the final say on whether an Australian gets the care that they need. Labor has made a very clear choice. It has decided who it will carry and who it will leave behind. But older Australians will not forget who has left them behind, and neither will the coalition.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>37</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:51</span>):  From my first speech in this place, and many times since, I've stood in this chamber to raise the issue of women's health because I know that too often these issues have been sidelined. Too often women's experiences have been minimised. Too often their pain has been ignored or dismissed. Women haven't been heard, and I've tried to use my role in this place to change that. Whether it has been advocacy and awareness for maternal health, endometriosis, pelvic pain or perimenopause and menopause, I have sought to use this position to elevate the voices of women in order to drive the change that they deserve. Today I do so again, but this time it is deeply personal to me.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Having a baby is one of the most miraculous experiences of a parent's life. There is no greater joy or sense of achievement than holding your precious, new baby in your arms. The love is indescribable. It takes hold of your whole body and is all consuming. It's a love that never leaves you. But the truth is that, alongside these feelings, the days and weeks after birth can be particularly tough, especially for new mothers. Whether it is challenges with breastfeeding, pelvic floor, mental health or the physical experience of birth, women can find themselves suffering deeply. Too many women find themselves isolated, vulnerable and unable to reach out for help. I know this because I have lived some of these struggles.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This week I chose to publicly share some of my own experiences after the birth of my first child. I have shared that, after I gave birth, I felt like an absolute warrior. I have never felt stronger, braver or more powerful and I have never felt so much love in my heart. But it was in the days that followed that I really struggled. Breastfeeding was excruciatingly painful. I had mastitis, and it was an agonising experience. This led to postnatal anxiety. I was very fortunate. I was able to find a wonderful lactation consultant in Adelaide called Robyn who was able to guide me through those extremely difficult weeks. Because of her help, I was able to breastfeed for more than a year. If I didn't have her help, I simply do not know what I would've done in that dark space I had found myself in.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I also know that I was incredibly lucky to live in a capital city like Adelaide, to live close to care and to be able to afford the cost of that care. I know that is just not possible for a lot of women around Australia, and that is not fair. Access to good-quality care in the postpartum period should not be a matter of what you can afford and where you live, and it can't be left to luck. I want it to change. So I shared my story, and I want more women to be able to share theirs so we can drive the change we need to see. We can break down the stigma that stops women reaching out in this critical period of their lives. It stops them from getting help.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I am asking for the Senate's support for an inquiry into postpartum health care. We have done so much good work on women's health in this chamber to date. I was proud to serve as deputy chair of two Senate inquiries into women's health last parliament. Those inquiries sparked a national conversation about the level of support women were receiving and where they were being let down. Because of the courage of the women who came before our committees, we saw a national momentum towards change. We saw the government that I am proud to be a part of drive a massive step change in the way women's health is prioritised and funded in this country. This has been extraordinarily important work which has changed the lives of women around Australia. But there is still a group of women that I am afraid as a community we are not reaching—women who are struggling with their own experiences, thinking they are not worthy of extra support, women struggling with feelings of failure or shame, women too overwhelmed to leave their house because of anxiety or the physical impacts of their births. How do we find them?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This work is important, and it is deeply personal to me. I am so proud of what this Senate has done up until this point. I am so proud of the support our government has given to women's health and the funding we've put behind it. We have delivered so much, but there is more to do. I hope to have the Senate's support in this work, and I hope that together we can work to bring the lived experience of women in this period into the spotlight and deliver the change they deserve.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Health, Gambling Advertising, Donations to Political Parties</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Women's Health</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Gambling Advertising</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Donations to Political Parties</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>38</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">12:57</span>):  I want to commend and thank Senator Marielle Smith for all the work that she has done in this place and is proposing to do with this new select committee. It's really important work and will impact the lives of Australians across this great continent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Today is a stark reminder for Australians of just how far we have to go when it comes to ensuring that our democracy delivers for the people and that our democracy is set up in a way that we have a parliament that is thinking longer term and putting community interests ahead of vested interests. I think more and more Australians are starting to cotton on to what is happening and how this system and the various parts of it produce the kind of outcome that we have today, where we have gambling reform that is just so far out of line with community expectation and what evidence based policy would be. I want to touch on a few of those parts of the puzzle now.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I can almost guarantee you that a person whose life has been wrecked by online gambling and wants reform has never bought a table to a Labor fundraiser and has never spent 10,000 bucks to sit beside the Prime Minister. They're one of the Australians who can't even email the PM. They can go through the Prime Minister's portal, where you give them all your details and send some sort of message to the Prime Minister, and who knows what happens to that. We've got a prime minister you can't even email in 2026.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've got a lobbying system which for so long has just had zero transparency. We've got over 2,200 people who have access-all-areas passes to this place. Until very recently, we had no idea who they were, who gave them their pass and what they were in this building to do. Access is a good thing. This is the people's house. People should be able to access this place, but Australians deserve to know who is accessing this place and what they are doing in here. We regulate third-party lobbyists, but for everyone else it's been open slather.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The revolving door is a very inconvenient thing we need to address. Resources is probably the most stark example. Almost every resources minister in living memory has ended up working in the resources industry. Martin Ferguson started work with British Gas within weeks of leaving parliament. He chaired Apia's advisory board by October 2013. Ian Macfarlane became CEO of the Queensland Resources Council months after resigning from parliament.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Staff obviously follow. Ian Macfarlane's chief of staff became CEO of the New South Wales Minerals Council. It's the same with gambling, where we have people who know the inner workings of how these industries are regulated then going straight to work for the gambling lobby.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've also got cash for access, which has been in the news recently. There's been more than $110 million to the major parties since 1999 through dodgy cash-for-access schemes. Australians would be horrified if they knew the scale of cash for access in this place and how the Labor government seems to fly ministers around the country for a meeting that just happens to coincide with a fundraising dinner. Ministers meet and talk about something relevant to the government, which we all obviously want, but then they just so happen to all attend a fundraising dinner that night, and taxpayers have paid for them to get to that city. That doesn't cut it. This cash for access needs to change, and, clearly, it suits both the major parties, who've stitched us up as part of their electoral reform bill.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What is the cost of all this? The cost is the kind of reform we see today that sells the Australian people out, that puts vested interests ahead of the community and which erodes trust in this place and in all of us. Aussies look at parliament and say: 'Well, they're all just in it for themselves; they don't care about us. We're the ones hearing our kids recite the odds.' Rather than banning ads, they say, 'Let's get the balance right with three ads per hour during the day and as many ads as you want overnight.'</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Avian Influenza</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Avian Influenza</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>39</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:02</span>):  I rise to speak about the growing threat posed by the H5N1 avian influenza outbreak. This virus has devastated wildlife populations around the world and has caused mass mortality events in seabirds, marine mammals and other wildlife. Globally, we've seen millions of wild animals and tens of thousands of mammals that have died from bird flu, and, now, it has reached Australia, the last continent it had previously spared.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our native wildlife cannot catch a break. Between the horrors of the devastating algal bloom in South Australia and now the threat of bird flu, our iconic species are facing crisis after crisis. The government's own commissioned risk assessment predicts catastrophic impacts for our native wildlife. Eighty-seven per cent of Australia's mammals and 45 per cent of our bird species are found nowhere else. We don't truly know what the impacts will be on these very special creatures. The government estimates that close to 400 Australian native bird and mammal species face high to extreme risk from this strain of the flu. The Invasive Species Council warns that this could be a wildlife disaster on the scale of the Black Summer bushfires.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In my home state of South Australia, there have now been at least 265 confirmed positive H5 bird flu detections. South Australians are worried about our native wildlife populations. We're deeply worried about our beautiful Coorong region—such a sacred place—in South Australia, which is an important breeding sanctuary for pelicans. There's great concern for Kangaroo Island, also such a special place, which is home to many native species, including our precious sea lion population. The mortality rate of elephant seal pups in Argentina's Peninsula Valdes reached 95 per cent in 2023 because of the bird flu.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If bird flu takes hold in this region, it could push some of our native birds and wildlife closer to extinction. South Australia's coastal bird populations have already been devastated by the algal bloom. We cannot afford another ecological catastrophe, and so many South Australians live in fear of it. Our wildlife is facing an unprecedented crisis. With bird flu rapidly spreading across our country, it is critical that the government prepares for this ecological crisis, as it is set to devastate wildlife. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia's distance from other countries and lack of migratory ducks and waterbirds from the Northern Hemisphere has given us years to prepare. The Greens urged the government in September 2024—a while ago—to act immediately to strengthen Australia's preparedness. The government has known this threat was coming for a long time—nearly two years. The question now is whether it has done enough to prepare. This government needs to back calls from experts and conservation groups for this $200 million two-year boost to wildlife resilience, coastal habitat protection and invasive species control. We call on Minister Watt to deliver a dedicated and urgent $200 million wildlife preparedness package of this kind, to give our native species the best chance of survival. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Over 400 Australians have contacted my office over the past few months voicing their concerns and their support for this $200 million package. This is no time for playing politics or for delay. Our sea lions, our pelicans and our sacred spaces should not be paying the price for government delay when urgent action could help protect them. We cannot afford to repeat the mistakes of past ecological crises. Federal and state governments must work together to heed the lessons of the algal bloom and move quickly to protect our wildlife while we still have time to halt the speed. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If the Albanese government is serious about protecting wildlife, then they must urgently scale up the funding to build wildlife population resilience. South Australians are asking governments to act. We are asking governments to act to prevent an ecological disaster that we live in fear of and that we have had recent experience with. We can do more. Let's put the funding where it is needed. Let's make sure we do everything we can to minimise a catastrophe rather than see it unfold full throated in a way that puts at risk so many of our precious species. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans: Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans: Women's Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>40</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:07</span>):  Last night I told Kate's story. Kate is a female veteran who waited for three years to get surgery for vaginal prolapse. Why did she wait so long? Because she couldn't find a gynaecologist who was happy with the low prices DVA pay. If I didn't have a good job, that could have been me. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">About six months ago, my vagina started to prolapse. This is an injury that is directly connected to my back injuries from my time in the Army. My vagina was collapsing, and three months later it was taking my bladder with it, because there is such limited access to gynaecologists in rural and regional areas like Tasmania. I was looking at waiting for months for an appointment—that's in the private system in Tasmania—just to see a gynaecologist. I put my claim into DVA over a month ago—crickets. There was no duty of care from the Department of Veterans' Affairs—absolute zero. So I came to Canberra to get the operation. I paid $7,000 so I wouldn't end up like Kate. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If I was like the majority of female veterans, I would have had to wait for DVA to approve my claim and then I would have had to search and hope—hope like hell—that there would be a gynaecologist who would accept the low rate that was paid by the Department of Veterans' Affairs. That's how much they care about our vaginas. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm not alone. This is a condition suffered by one in 12 Australian women, but we can't be sure about those numbers because we don't keep accurate data. That's shocking in itself. It's one of the most common and awful conditions that can be caused by childbirth, and we don't keep accurate data. When it comes to our female veterans, it's even worse. A survey of nearly 500 female veterans who had completed a minimum of six months of active duty found that two thirds reported pelvic health concerns, including 12 per cent who reported pelvic organ collapse. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The awful thing about this condition is that it also affects your bladder. A crucial treatment for post-prolapse surgery is physiotherapy, but female veterans can only get a maximum of four physio treatments, and they have to fight their way through a mountain of forms to get that. Women not in the Army are only entitled to five physio appointments under Medicare, even though the experts say that the recommended number is between five and 12 appointments at the very least. How would that go under the cap for our veterans, let alone our women? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Prolapse can be brought on by carrying heavy packs, high-impact training and combat training. I was in the first generation of Aussie women veterans who did combat training. Men's and women's bodies are different, but, of course, that has never been factored in. When I asked Angus Campbell—years ago now—if there were any scientific evidence that women's bodies could stand up to the amount of weight that they were carrying in the Defence Force, he admitted they hadn't even bothered to look into it, and they still have not. They didn't have any scientific evidence. Once again, like I said, they still don't. They want us to fight for this country. You want us to have babies for the country, but you're not interested in supporting our reproductive systems.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When the DVA ticks off on a claim, they must factor in at least one statement of principle—SOPs we call them. These are legislative instruments that set out factors which can connect injuries, disease or death from service. These are numbers for everything from tinnitus to erectile dysfunction, but guess what? There is no SOP for vaginal prolapse. There's an SOP for penis problems but no SOP for vagina problems. Either DVA don't know that female veterans have vaginas or they actually don't care.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I would like to ask the Prime Minister, Minister Marles and Minister Keogh what they would do if their penises were hanging by a thread and what would they do if treatment for that injury directly connected to their military service was denied by the Department of Veterans' Affairs. Would they say, 'Okay, no worries. I don't really need my penis'? I don't think so. I'm asking you once more. I'm begging you, Prime Minister. We are already suffering enough. Drop the bloody cap. Drop it, mate. It is so unfair. It is what we do not need. It is enough. Veterans have had enough. Leave us alone.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="296215" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Cox</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Just before I shift the call, thank you for sharing your personal experience, Senator Lambie, and I acknowledge your pain.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>40</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cox, Sen Dorinda (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>296215</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Discrimination</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Discrimination</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ananda-Rajah, Sen Michelle</name>
              <name.id>290544</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="290544" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ANANDA-RAJAH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:12</span>):  Teachers are reporting that six-year-old boys are calling girls dumb and sluts. Two in five boys aged 13 to 17 identify with right-wing extremism. Nearly one in three follow white supremacists and harbour anti-women views like 'equal opportunity has gone too far'. When this is the reality, it is no surprise we are seeing a surge in toxic masculinity in our schools. Increasing reports by female teachers of being subjected to misogynistic taunts, gestures and language are contributing to teacher attrition. These regressive attitudes are not confined to boys. One in 10 young women believe that men are the head of the household.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These are some of the findings of a study by the University of Melbourne funded by the Office of National Intelligence. It found that hostility towards women is the single strongest predictor of violent extremism in young Australians. It is a stronger predictor of violent extremism than political ideology, religion, ethnicity or how much time someone spends online. In other words, misogyny is not just a social issue but a national security one. Just this week we have seen three private school boys aged 13 and 14 charged with aggravated sexual assault of a 14-year-old girl and five footy players facing allegations of sexual assault. Australia-wide, reported sexual assaults have increased by 10 per cent in the last year, and, on average, a woman dies every 11 days in Australia as a result of violence.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What has led to this structural problem of misogyny in our country? How are these attitudes taking root and polluting the minds of young Australians but especially our boys? Unsurprisingly, this study found that these attitudes are being shaped by online content, particularly engagement with manfluencers, porn, which is basically exaggerated and a distorted view of sexuality, and online dating. Teach Us Consent researcher Chanel Contos, who is in the building today, reports that, when they mimicked a 16- to 18-year-old boy on social media, it took only 23 minutes for the algorithm to feed them misogynistic content. If a young boy or a man actively searches for content in this sort of domain, the algorithm will feed them up content in two minutes. Our feeds and algorithms have become a gateway to misogynistic and violent extremism. It's infinite. It's heroin online—confirmed by Meta employees, who disclosed in the<span style="font-style:italic;"> Guardian</span> today that Instagram is a 'drug' and they are 'pushers'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our online environment for boys is tiger country, fraught with exposure to misogyny and cyberbullying. It's egging them on to violence by amplifying a perceived sense of personal grievance and personal injustice, tapping into vulnerabilities and shifting blame onto girls and women. And it's making us all less safe.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is why the Albanese Labor government has introduced a world-leading social media delay for Australians under the age of 16—for our kids. Now, 20 or more countries have fallen into line, like dominoes, behind us. Social media companies are fighting this tooth and nail, with Meta using a proxy army of global influencers, from yummy mummies to actors, to blokes who wine and dine with Meta and then talk up their piss-weak social media controls for teenagers. Arturo Bejar, a Meta whistleblower, said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">You can still search for suicide and self-harm content even though they promise you can't.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Meanwhile, the eSafety Commissioner last week disclosed that these companies are going around the world trash-talking Australia's social media delay, holding us up as a failure.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Healthy Masculinities Trial and Evaluation, backed with $3½ million from our government, is supporting student led programs in high schools and sporting clubs. Brighton Grammar—a school that I visited not long ago with our Special Envoy for Men's Health, Dan Repacholi—is doing an amazing job in this space, giving boys the space to question what they are seeing and why they are seeing it. Led by boys, for boys, it is the counter-messaging we need more of, and it probably needs to start earlier. Our impending digital duty of care bill will take this up a notch, placing the onus on social media companies to proactively keep our kids safe and save our boys.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Security</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>41</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:17</span>):  I'm getting sick of talking about this, but the Australian people need to be assured that One Nation sees and cares about the abysmal state of our woke courts and institutions. A report in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian</span> has revealed that one of the NZYQ cohort, a man from Sierra Leone in his 50s with multiple sexual assault convictions, has had a win in the Australian Federal Court. He's attempting to move to a more permanent visa to stay in the country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The ART declined to move him to a protection visa on the basis that any risk of further sexual offences was unacceptable. What a refreshingly sensible position! But the Federal Court has now overruled that decision, saying that the ART had failed to take into account the expert testimony of therapists. These therapists argued that providing this degenerate criminal with a permanent visa would lower the risk of him re-offending.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is a man who has been convicted of multiple sexual offences against young boys, and our courts are running protection for him. They are putting the comfort of this predator over the safety of our citizens—over the safety of our children and our community. It is wrong. It is disgusting. And it needs to change.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While the ART was the voice of reason in this case, they are by no means a shield for the protection of the Australian people. Between 23 March and 26 April, the ART set aside 475 visa cancellations involving non-citizens with substantial criminal records. Sixteen of these cases involved people found guilty of child sex offences. That should shock all Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There should be no world where someone comes to this country, is convicted of child sex offences and is allowed to stay. I do not care if they are in danger in their own country. Once they've crossed the line, their safety means nothing to me. In fact, I wish them every misfortune that may come their way. They should be on the next flight back to wherever they came from, and they can deal with them how they like. This man couldn't be returned to Sierra Leone because they frown upon child sexual acts against young boys over there. When did we stop frowning? Send him back, and let them dispense justice as they see fit. I would sooner see him put in jeopardy than let him loose on Australian citizens to destroy more lives. The young men who were the victims of this monster have had their lives devastated. Who here is fighting for our children? The moralising and mental gymnastics that goes along with pretending we owe foreign criminals safe haven is putting our own at risk. It's disgusting.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor have the power to act now, but they act like there is nothing to be done and that they are bound by the rules. You are making the rules; they are your rules. There is nothing in the Constitution that requires Australia to harbour foreign criminals. We do not owe them safety. Don't hide behind foreign treaties. Your only concern should be for the people of Australia. You're in control of these laws. Put the safety of Australians first.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Minister for Home Affairs, Tony Burke, has the power to issue ministerial directions to change how the ART decides to cancel visas on character grounds. He can issue new directions any time he sees fit. Yet, under current ministerial direction 110, we have seen 475 foreign criminals have their cancellations set aside, with 16 child sex offenders being told they are welcome to stay in Australia. This is intolerable. The language of that direction should leave no room for doubt as to what should happen to criminal noncitizens. Send them back.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It doesn't matter how long you've been in the country. It doesn't matter what your ties to Australia are. If you are a serious offender, if you are convicted of any sexual crime against children, your visa must be cancelled and you should be shown the door. We hear the argument that Australia owes some of these people protection, and that our laws prevent us from removing those who may face persecution when they arrive home. Too bad. Change the laws. You had your chance to live in the greatest country on earth, and you couldn't control yourself.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The only protection that is owed is to the Australian community, to our elderly, to our women and children, from these predators. If laws are standing in your way, change them. If you can't bring yourself to send back those that have raped, assaulted, molested or violated Australian citizens, resign. If you don't have the guts or the backbone to stand up for the Australian people, move aside for people that do.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marine Environment: Decommissioning, Melbourne Water, Australian Football League</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Marine Environment: Decommissioning</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Melbourne Water</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Football League</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>42</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hodgins-May, Sen Steph</name>
              <name.id>310860</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="310860" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HODGINS-MAY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:22</span>):  Let's get this straight: the gas industry gets our resources for free, pays next to no tax, obliterates our climate and environment, and now, it seems, does not even have to prove that it can clean up afterwards. You cannot make this stuff up. Our oceans, including the beautiful Bass Strait off the coasts of Victoria and Tasmania, should not be left with rusting junk, toxic rigs and contaminated pipelines when gas projects dry up, and taxpayers definitely should not be left to stump up those clean-up costs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just last month, gas companies Pilot Energy and Triangle Energy went broke, leaving behind a ghost rig and a potential $200 million clean-up bill with no clear owner. Federal and state governments must require these companies to prove they have the funds to cover decommissioning costs upfront. They must put these funds aside so that taxpayers aren't once again left to foot the bill. We ask renters to do this; the Labor government treats oil and gas giants better than everyday Australian renters. Come on! Labor keeps kicking these reforms down the road, just like the companies do with their decommissioning. The Wilderness Society was forced to do the work of bringing this vital legal case to light. This burden should not fall on NGOs. Labor must show leadership. This is clearly a matter of public interest. It's a matter of fairness and basic respect for our oceans and our communities.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've seen the privatisation movie before, and it is a dud. Victorians paid the price, and now Labor looks like it could be planning a sequel with Melbourne Water. Labor is reportedly considering whether to sell, lease or monetise Melbourne Water. But we know what can happen when essential services are put in private hands. Look at the UK—bills soared, services suffered and raw sewerage ended up in rivers and on beaches. Water is not a luxury; it is an essential public service, and Melbourne Water should not become a cash machine for a government looking to patch up a hole in its budget. That's why the Greens are calling on Labor to rule out any sale, lease or monetisation of Melbourne Water—no spin, no creative accounting, no dodgy deals. Victorians are under enormous cost-of-living pressure. They shouldn't have to pay more for water so Labor can get a short-term cash injection from a public asset. This is all part of a bigger pattern, of course. Labor has followed Jeff Kennett down the privatisation path, from ports and roads to public housing and other essential services. We've seen this movie before; we know how it ends. Public assets belong to the public, and, if Labor has nothing to hide, come clean and rule out privatising our water.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When serious allegations of sexual assault emerge, our first concern should be for the women at the centre of them, not what it might mean for a football club or a finals campaign. While the investigation must now take its due course, we also need to confront a bigger question: why is male entitlement, disrespect and violence towards women still so pervasive?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australians love AFL, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's part of a broader culture where gambling and alcohol are deeply embedded in the game and where misogyny, sexism and homophobia have long and ugly histories. We put footy players on pedestals, but what matters more than what kind of player or teammate someone is is how they treat women and girls. Women and girls who love the AFL deserve to know that the game respects them and their safety, too. When the conversation turns to what it means for the team, the finals or the AFL, our priorities are completely out of whack. We should be asking how we support the victims-survivors, how we challenge the attitudes and behaviours that enable violence and what the AFL and its clubs will do to genuinely make women safer.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This isn't about tackling the AFL; it's about expecting better from a game that we and Australians love right across this country. Respect, of course, has to be more than a slogan. Men have a responsibility to challenge misogyny and to challenge harmful behaviour every time they see it. No club's reputation, player's career or premiership will ever be more important than the safety and dignity of women.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation, Housing</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Superannuation</span>
              </p>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whiteaker, Sen Ellie</name>
              <name.id>316555</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="316555" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITEAKER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:27</span>):  Last week, Senator Bragg felt like going out on a little adventure to the Press Club—Braggie's big day out. I think it gave everyone a little teaser of what we might expect to see if, God forbid, we ever end up with a government that's some combination of Taylor, Hume, Bragg, Canavan and Hanson. It would be an absolute horror show for working Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What's become clear yet again is that the right-wing parties—the Liberal Party, the National Party and One Nation—are after Australians' super. It's not the first time and, sadly, I don't think it will be the last. Senator Bragg, in his little adventure to the National Press Club, said that he thinks superannuation is a strange experiment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I think that working Australians would disagree, but we'll see. He called super for young people 'super for cats and dogs'. He absolutely did. Pauline Hanson, just this week, has said that she thinks our super system is broken. For a long time now, we've seen attack after attack on superannuation by those opposite—the Liberal Party, the National Party and now Senator Hanson and One Nation, too. The Liberals' only solution to the housing crisis has been that people should be able to raid their super to buy a house.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor says that you can have both. You can have the super that you need to retire comfortably—an investment that will compound, build up over time and give you security in your retirement, and, because of Labor and our efforts to get more people into their own homes, you can own a home of your own too. While those opposite, the right-wing parties, are coming after working Australians' super, Labor will always protect it because Labor created superannuation. Unions and working people fought for superannuation, and we will not allow the right-wing parties to come after it and take away the very thing that working Australians rely on to retire with security and with dignity.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Polley</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  We will now proceed to the two-minute statements.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>43</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>e5x</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Taxation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>43</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
              <name.id>282997</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:30</span>):  I was absolutely thrilled to join the Leader of the Opposition, Angus Taylor, and the Leader of the National Party, Senator Matt Canavan—my friend and colleague from Queensland—on one of their presentations with respect to the coalition's plan to fix the economy and protect our way of life. I've only got two minutes, so I want to just touch on two points in relation to the plan.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The first element is to stop Labor's assault on aspiration. One of the good things about this plan is that it sets out the problem, the Liberal and National parties' values and the solution. The problem is Labor's assault on aspiration. It's an assault on people who are starting businesses, generating wealth and creating opportunities. Many young entrepreneurs are going to be sent overseas because of Labor's capital gains tax. We won't get the benefit of their new enterprises. The coalition's values are that it stands with Australians who work hard, take risks, save and invest in their future. Our solution is to scrap Labor's tax changes, which are going to force 200,000 small businesses which operate through discretionary trusts to restructure.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The second element is the tax-back guarantee. The problem is the cost of living going through the roof. Inflation is going through the roof, which means Australians are struggling to make ends meet. Our values are that, when your wages increase, the tax threshold should also shift so you're not penalised by the hidden tax of inflation. The coalition's solution is to axe Labor's inflation tax by introducing the tax-back guarantee. From 2028 to 2029, we will index the bottom two income tax thresholds to inflation. Ultimately, that's going to lead to an improvement of $1,000 of extra money in the pocket for people at the lower end of the tax thresholds.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Superannuation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun</name>
              <name.id>257613</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="257613" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GHOSH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:32</span>):  The Labor Party will always defend Australia's superannuation system from the coalition and from One Nation. Last week, we heard from Senator Bragg, the Colonel Kurtz of the Liberal Party, by himself deep in the jungle, fighting communism wherever he can find it. His latest enemy is a dignified retirement for working Australians. The horror, the horror! Senator Bragg likened the extension of super to under-18s to extending super to cats and dogs. That's what he said would happen next. While the retirement future of young Australians may be the subject of jokes by the Liberal Party, it's not a joke for us.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Senator Bragg also wants to scrap the superannuation guarantee, claiming that it is one of the biggest policy failures since Federation. Imagine the delusion required to make such an absurd claim from the party that managed, created, defended and then tried to cover up robodebt. Meanwhile, One Nation's Senator Hanson wants superannuation to be like a savings account, making it easier to withdraw money early, as and when you need it, rather than saving it for retirement. The coalition playbook and the One Nation playbook have merged seamlessly in this last term. They are a uniparty. One Nation says, 'Withdraw super early,' and, during the COVID pandemic, the coalition said the same thing—that hard-working Australians should eat into their retirement funds just to get by. All the while, they were handing out billions of taxpayer dollars to companies who increased their revenue during the same period.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It just shows you what their priorities are. I can tell you about our priorities. The Labor Party will always defend the super system against efforts from One Nation and the coalition to undermine or destroy it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Executive Remuneration</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Executive Remuneration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
              <name.id>250362</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:33</span>):  Here are the latest hits on how you're getting screwed over while corporate CEOs are living it up. You're hearing the Greens talk a lot about big corporations and billionaires ripping us off, and here's why. Last week, it was reported that Tesla paid Elon Musk 2.5 million times the average worker in 2025. Australia's top earning exec took home $48 million last financial year. This is almost 500 times the full-time average wage. Telstra has been in the news recently. A national outage wrought havoc on public transport, small business and triple zero communications. You might expect some consequences for the person in charge, but, no—the CEO still managed to take home a tidy $6.8 million, a $700,000 increase on the previous year. Over the same time, Telstra told workers they needed to tighten the purse strings and got rid of 1,200 employees. When cuts come, they're sure as hell not coming for those on top. After posting an $11 billion profit, CommBank had the audacity to offer employees a wage increase below CPI. Meanwhile, their CEO's annual pay jumped to over $9 million last year, up 30 per cent from the year before.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This isn't by accident. This isn't a fluke. This is a system that flourishes because Labor, the Liberals and One Nation are looking out for their billionaire and corporate donors. The Greens are the only party not beholden to corporations, and we will always put people before profits.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>44</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Blyth, Sen Leah</name>
              <name.id>315170</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="315170" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BLYTH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:35</span>):  Labor keeps telling Australians it's got a plan to fix housing, but the numbers tell a very different story. Labor's own budget admits its changes to negative gearing and capital gains tax will result in around 35,000 fewer homes being built over the next decade. It also admits those changes will put upward pressure on rents. The housing shortage won't be fixed by making it harder to invest in housing. You cannot tell young Australians you are helping them into homeownership while pursuing policies that reduce supply. In Adelaide median rents are already above $600 a week. Families are trying to cover rent, groceries, electricity and everyday expenses, with very little room left in their household budgets. Australians can't save as fast as inflation grows.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The solution to a housing shortage is very simple. It is more supply. The coalition will back builders, tradies, small investors and first home buyers, who keep the housing market moving. The coalition will axe taxes, reduce red tape and policies, and get more homes built in Australia. We will link Australia's migration intake to the number of new homes being built and cap immigration based on the housing available. If housing supply cannot keep pace with population growth, Australians will continue competing for too few homes. The difference is very clear for Australians. The coalition has a plan to increase housing supply and restore the dream of homeownership. Meanwhile, Labor keeps telling young people that they've never had it so good and that they can own a home. The results tell a very different story. Labor's policies will leave Australia far worse off, with fewer homes for everyone.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Red Nose Day</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Red Nose Day</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Brown, Sen Carol</name>
              <name.id>F49</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="F49" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CAROL BROWN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:38</span>):  I rise today to speak about Red Nose Day, which will be held on Thursday 27 August. For almost four decades, Red Nose Day has brought Australians together to get silly for a very serious cause. Red Nose Day is also about supporting families living with unimaginable grief. Red Nose funds research, provides support to families who've experienced the loss of a pregnancy, baby or child, and delivers important education for keeping babies safe.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the most important parts of that work is safe sleeping. For babies from birth to 12 months, Red Nose recommends six key safe sleep practices. Always place your baby on their back to sleep. Keep their face and head uncovered, and keep them smoke free before and after birth. Babies should sleep in their own safe sleep space, on a firm and flat mattress with no pillows, cot bumpers, doonas, loose blankets or soft toys. Red Nose also recommends that babies sleep in the same room as their parents or caregiver for the first six months. And there is one simple message worth remembering: back to sleep; tummy to play. Tummy time is important for a baby's development, but it should only happen when they are awake and supervised. These are simple steps, but they can save lives. This Red Nose Day, I encourage Australians to get involved, make a donation if they can and take a moment to learn and share the safe sleep advice. I thank Red Nose and its staff, volunteers, researchers and supporters for the work they continue to do to save little lives and support families across Australia.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Western Highway</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Great Western Highway</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bell, Sen Sean</name>
              <name.id>319142</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="319142" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">One Nation Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:39</span>):  For months now, businesses along the Great Western Highway have been bleeding. They were told, despite begging, that there was no disaster assistance, no rescue package and no serious Commonwealth response. Then, suddenly, like a miracle from Canberra, $100 million has appeared, along with $100 million from the state government for assistance with reconstruction of the road. One wonders, perhaps, whether the Prime Minister checked behind the couch cushions. It is truly amazing what this government and the Prime Minister can do when the political pressure starts to hurt too much.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On 25 May, I wrote directly to the government and the Prime Minister, urging them to act. I said to them that this closure was an economic disaster. Even if the road hadn't physically collapsed, it might as well have. For businesses cut off from customers, the consequences were the same. This was a disaster. Trade had disappeared. Businesses were going under.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The highway has been closed since 8 March. Triple 8 Cafe at South Bowenfels shut its doors. For Geekdom in Leura, trade fell by 20 per cent, and the owner says that was the final blow. After about 168 days, Labor has finally discovered that this is an urgent matter, but there is still no federal rescue package for the workers who lost shifts or the small-business owners who watched their livelihoods disappear while this Labor government looked the other way. Labor now sees the road. It just cannot see the people who depend on it. It has taken five months, shuttered businesses and a mounting political headache for this Labor government to act, so please spare us the victory lap.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister, knew there was a problem and knew people were desperate. I wrote to him. Businesses were pleading for help. Yet, for about 168 days, the government was more or less silent. Yes, start fixing the road, but do not ask the Australians who have lost their businesses to applaud you for doing so. The miraculous discovery behind the Canberra couch cushions has come far too late for many of these businesses and many of the people in these communities.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wayside Chapel</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wayside Chapel</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>45</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
              <name.id>256063</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256063" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRAGG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:41</span>):  I'd like to acknowledge the fantastic volunteer work of the people who support the Wayside Chapel in Kings Cross. I was able to visit there a couple of weeks ago and see the great work the volunteers do. The couple hundred people who go there for a meal are extremely grateful for that service as well as for the hot showers they provide and the other services that they are a hub for. Not only do they have the site at Kings Cross; they also have one at Bondi. Regrettably, these services are under more pressure than ever as we see homelessness and rough sleeping rise across New South Wales. In fact, it's gone up by five per cent in the last year. The service provided by the Wayside Chapel will be well known to many Australians. It really is an institution which runs on the smell of the volunteers' labour and good grace. I shudder to think what these people would do without the services provided by Wayside and St Canice's Kitchen over in Darlinghurst. I want to acknowledge the great work of Wayside. Thanks to all the people who give up their time to help prepare meals, serve people, give them a friendly face and give them some advice they might need, as they try and get people back on their feet and back to doing something that they want to do.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Paid Parental Leave Scheme</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Paid Parental Leave Scheme</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dolega, Sen Josh</name>
              <name.id>316935</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="316935" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DOLEGA</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:43</span>):  The first few months with a newborn are some of the most precious moments for parents—moments that only come around once. That's why, from 1 July, the Albanese Labor government expanded paid parental leave to 26 weeks, with eligible parents now receiving over $1,000 per week. This means that families receiving the full amount will receive almost $30,000 across the duration of their paid parental leave. We're also lifting the individual and family limits so more Australians can access paid parental leave.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">That's not all. From 1 July 2025, we made sure that eligible parents receive a superannuation contribution equal to 12 per cent of their paid PPL payments. This is a huge step forward towards closing the gender pay gap in retirement savings, as most paid parental leave recipients are women.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When we came into office, eligible families could only access a total of 20 weeks paid parental leave and they didn't receive superannuation contributions. The Albanese Labor government's expansion of paid parental leave is real. It's an important change that delivers more time, more money and a higher number of people eligible. This is great for our parents, great for our kids and great for the economy.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Unfortunately, you've got the right-wing rabble, the 'uniparty' over there led by One Nation, who have questioned why people should be paid if they're not at work. They've even said that women get pregnant just for money. Disgusting! But, unlike the three right-wing parties, the Albanese government will always look after Australian families. It was Labor that created paid parental leave in 2011, and it's the Albanese Labor government that's continuing to strengthen it for all Australian families, because every Australian should be able to spend more treasured time with their newborns.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>University of Queensland</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">University of Queensland</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Allman-Payne, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>298839</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="298839" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:45</span>):  Democracy is under attack at the University of Queensland. Student democracy is at the cornerstone of a democratic society—a society that allows for dissent, resistance and advocacy, and a society that believes in solidarity and mutual aid.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The UQ Union has a storied history of these values, as an elected student organisation that fought against apartheid in South Africa decades ago and is now fighting against the genocide in Gaza. Its student volunteers and representatives provide essential services on campus. But now the university is cracking down on its student union, moving the union onto a transition plan that gives the university inordinate control over its funding and governance.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">UQ is not the first Australian university to move against its union. We've seen student associations across the country stripped of funding, sidelined from consultation or placed under university control when they've been too effective, too critical or too independent. Because of the power imbalance, the university can now deny the union the funding that it needs to seek independent legal advice. The students are being denied a voice in the treatment of their union. But students are not taking this lying down; they are resisting. Hundreds have signed the petition to preserve their independent union, and they will be mobilising on campus for a protest on 26 August.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I am a former student of the University of Queensland. I understand the value and importance of an independent student union. UQ must immediately withdraw its application for this plan. Should it land on the Minister for Education's desk, he must reject it. Student unions should be run by students, student money should be managed by students and independent student organisations should not be taken over by universities.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Low-Carbon Liquid Fuels</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Low-Carbon Liquid Fuels</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>46</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
              <name.id>39801</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:47</span>):  Yesterday marked another important step forward in our government's plan for a future made in Australia. Ministers King and Bowen announced the opening of consultation on options to support the development of a domestic low-carbon liquid fuels industry.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In the face of unprecedented global challenges in recent months, we've been reminded of something important: strengthening Australia's fuel security today and for the future is something we cannot afford to compromise on. We cannot afford to be vulnerable when it comes to protecting our industries from challenges beyond our shores. Disruptions to international supply chains and evolving pressures that come from a challenging climate are real challenges, and our government is acting.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Yesterday's announcement goes to the heart of strengthening our resilience while seizing on great opportunities ahead for us in low-carbon liquid fuels. We recognise these opportunities exist, which is why we committed more than $1 billion to growing our biofuels industry in this year's budget. As a senator for Queensland and assistant minister for agriculture and regional development, I've seen firsthand the opportunities ready to be unlocked in the regions.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just last month I visited Far North Queensland and met with cane growers and millers in Tully and Ayr. As a driving force of our nation's sugar production, the Far North and other sugar producing regions in Queensland have one eye towards the future. They have abundant and diverse feedstocks, renewable energy resources, infrastructure and workforce capability. Our sugar industry has the tools, expertise, willingness and passion that will be needed to fully harness our low-carbon liquid fuels potential.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that tomorrow's success cannot rely on yesterday's achievement. It requires innovation, diversification and a government willing to work with industry at every level. That is going to be the Albanese government's approach to this issue.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Afghanistan</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Afghanistan</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:49</span>):  I know that people from Afghanistan here in Australia are hurting today. We just received information about a blast at a school in Kabul that has injured nearly 50 children and tragically taken the life of two. While information is still coming in, we know this area was in a school that was predominantly a Hazara area. The Hazara people have faced horrific and untold persecution at the hands of the Taliban. I know the Hazara community here in Australia are watching in horror at these scenes and at the information that comes in. Reports that many of those injured are girls no older than 14 years make it even more devastating. As more information on this blast comes out over the coming hours, we stand in solidarity with our friends and the community here. Your culture and your history is safe here, but there must be a full investigation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've seen previous attacks on young women and groups like Hazara people since the fall of Kabul five years ago. In fact, this week was the commemoration of Afghanistan's Black Day. I want to thank the Afghan Peace Foundation for bringing the amazing women from the Afghan cricket team here in parliament, and I want to give a shout-out to my friend Tahera Nassrat for doing a terrific job emceeing that event. But what we heard was genuinely appalling. The Taliban regime has not only stopped women from speaking in public; they're stopping them from even being seen in their homes or seen out of their homes. It is gender apartheid at a shocking level. It reminds us that we need to do more.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We of course need to make sure that there are humanitarian pathways for people from Afghanistan to come to Australia to seek safety. Many of those worked with Australia during the war. We also need to open more scholarships and opportunities to get people, especially women, out. There is a wealth of talent, knowledge and brilliance as well as ancient cultures in Afghanistan that the Taliban is brutally repressing. Australia must do more. We owe it to all the people of Afghanistan.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vietnam War</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Vietnam War</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:51</span>):  Yesterday, I joined Vietnam veterans and their families and the Governor-General at the Vietnam Forces National Memorial on Anzac Parade and stood alongside Senator Paterson, Minister Keogh and many others to mark Vietnam Veterans' Day. This year marks the 60th anniversary of the Battle of Long Tan. On 18 August 1966, 108 men of D Company, 6RAR with the New Zealand Artillery party walked into a force estimated at more than 2,000. They were outnumbered roughly 10 to one. Eighteen Australians were killed, and 24 were wounded—more than a third of the company. Many of them were conscripts. Most were barely out of their teens. Nearly 60,000 Australians served in Vietnam. More than 3,000 were wounded, and 523 Australians never came home.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When they did return home, they were treated badly. There was a legitimate argument over the war, but it was deeply unfair for Aussie soldiers to suffer as a result of disagreements in the community. This should be made clear to those still with us, their families and their loved ones. Here in the ACT, our Vietnam veterans have spent the 60 years since building this community in the RSL sub-branches and the Vietnam Veterans Association. They fought for recognition of Agent Orange and of post-traumatic stress. Every veteran who has served since then has benefited from their fight. We owe today's veterans and serving members what we were too slow in providing to Vietnam vets—care that arrives without a fight and a country that says, 'Thank you for your service, and we will look after you and your families.'</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>47</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
              <name.id>297964</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:53</span>):  Labor has delivered a trifecta of failure on housing: fewer homes, higher rents and an absolute smashing of confidence in the market. Today, Ray White, Australia's biggest rental property manager, has said that Labor's budget handed down in May could lead to a 30 per cent spike in rental costs. This national real estate agency, which manages more than a quarter of a million properties, did the analysis the government should have done. And it's not only Ray White with the damning forecasts. The National Australia Bank also said rents would have to increase as much as 30 per cent over the next two years because of Labor's shameless tax grab. But Treasurer Jim Chalmers will no doubt hear all about it when he returns to his electorate on Friday, where rents for properties will rise by as much as 29 per cent—yet Treasurer Chalmers still backs in his absurd claim that rents will only increase by $2.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor's economic grief by design gets worse. Real-time data from Westpac shows that, since Labor's devastating budget in May, mortgage applications have plunged by 20 per cent. Buyers and investors have lost confidence in the housing market, and economists are warning that weaker mortgage demand will flow through to fewer transactions, less construction and even tighter housing supply. Labor should have known that. Their own Treasury forecasted that their tax grab would result in 35,000 fewer homes being built. So there's your trifecta to create the perfect housing storm—higher rents, confidence smashed and fewer homes. But Labor sit there congratulating themselves because they wanted this—just like Keating and Hawke, when they tried to smash the economy into decline and instead smashed it into pieces before people even noticed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I say to the Australian people: listen to how they celebrate this. We heard from Minister Wong this week. They want to redistribute the housing market. They want to redistribute your hard-earned assets. There is nothing more socialist than that. The coalition will fight all the way to protect your assets, your aspiration and your future.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Donations to Political Parties</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Donations to Political Parties</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:56</span>):  The New South Wales Independent Commission Against Corruption has been holding hearings for the past four weeks now, investigating illegal donations to the Liberal Party's branch-stacking activities, as part of Operation Rosny. There's one name that keeps coming up—the Leader of the Opposition, Angus Taylor. Through Reformers member Dylan Whitelaw, we heard that Dallas McInerney has been shaking down Mr Taylor for a $10,000 donation to a right-wing branch-stacking effort. We also heard that Mr McInerney had successfully gotten Mr Taylor to chip in $15,000, plus a monthly $3,000 donation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Just today, the ICAC heard that two men also being targeted by Operation Rosny—Christian Ellis and Jeremy Greenwood—were Mr Taylor's key fundraisers. It's extraordinary that the Leader of the Opposition's two key fundraising operatives were hauled before ICAC over their links to corrupt property developers. But even more extraordinary is that, over the past two weeks now, Mr Taylor has refused to answer questions about it. In fact, he's gone so far as to have his press secretary abuse journalists asking him the most basic questions on the matter. I'm sure his New South Wales colleagues in this place would be very keen to hear him answer those questions.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Australian people deserve answers to these questions. Angus, you can't hide forever. You should go into the House and answer these allegations. Go in there, meet the media and start answering the questions of the people of Australia, rather than hiding at every opportunity that you've had to disappear and hide from answering these questions. Give us the answers. We deserve to hear what's going on.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Polley</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Sheldon, resume your seat. That display was unacceptable, with the interjections and yelling across the chamber. It was absolutely disorderly.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  Point of order: refer to people in the other chamber by their correct title.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  There is no point of order, considering the debate backwards and forwards that I could hear, and the personal abuse. Senator Sheldon, have you finished? Thank you.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  We still have a minute. Senator Watt.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>e5x</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Albanese Government</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Albanese Government</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">13:59</span>):  The Albanese government is taking action every single day to assist Australians with their cost-of-living pressures. Despite the fact that, consistently, we have the Liberal, National and One Nation parties voting against cost-of-living relief, the Albanese government remains determined to focus on the needs of Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Dean Smith?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Dean Smith:</span>
                  </a>  It's pretty unorthodox for ministers on the frontbench of the government to use two-minute statements—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Smith, why are you on your feet?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="241710" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Dean Smith:</span>
                  </a>  It is though, isn't it? It is.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  I am quite an unorthodox senator, Senator Smith, but I'm not unorthodox in representing to Australians how much work the Australian Labor Party is doing to assist them with their cost of living. That is something that every senator in the Labor Party is proud to defend— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McGrath:</span>
                  </a>  Tell us about the funding cuts to councils.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order, Senator McGrath! Order across the chamber!</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Dean</name>
                <name.id>241710</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <talk>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>48</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>48</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
                <name.id>245759</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LNP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </talk>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>49</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Acknowledgement</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Acknowledgement</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>112096</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">14:00</span>):  I would like to draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the chamber of two parliamentary delegations. The first delegation is from Japan, led by the honourable Suzuki Takako, up in the President's gallery, as well as a parliamentary delegation from the Legislative Assembly of Tonga, led by Speaker Lord Vaea. On behalf of all senators, I wish both groups a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate. With the concurrence of honourable senators, I invite the speaker, Lord Vaea, to take a seat on the floor of the Senate.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">Honourable senators:</span>  Hear, hear!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">Lord Vaea </span>
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">was then seated accordingly.</span>
                </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>49</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Defence Personnel</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Defence Personnel</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:01</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Veterans who met with the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, Matt Keogh, yesterday say the meeting confirmed their lack of trust and confidence in him. Former RAAF pilot and GP Dr Tim Nelson says the meeting 'confirmed, for us, that lack of trust', and veterans who attended have described the minister's conduct as dismissive and disrespectful. Donna Manton—a defence veteran, prominent advocate and long-time Labor supporter—says she is 'heartsick' to be calling out Minister Keogh and the Albanese government for 'not caring for veterans'. Given veterans themselves are saying that they have lost trust and respect for Minister Keogh, does the Prime Minister still have confidence in him?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:01</span>):  The short answer is yes. I would go on to make a few points, if I may, given what the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate has said. The first point I would make is that, as I answered yesterday, those who serve our country should be treated with respect, and governments of all persuasions should ensure veterans are properly cared for. I think that is something we all agree on. If you have the courage to step forward and serve your country, then your country should ensure you are properly supported after that service. The second point I would make is that Minister Keogh, I understand, acknowledged yesterday that he 'got it wrong' in not agreeing to meet with them last week when the initial request came in, so he has made his position on that clear.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In relation to the services, I reiterate what I said yesterday. I understand that the concern that has been expressed is the $5,000 threshold. As I said yesterday, the advice I have is that veterans will continue to have access to allied health services above that threshold, where there is a clinical need. That is what the government's position is, and of course it is in the context of the government ensuring that additional investment has been put into the Department of Veterans' Affairs to try and improve the rate at which claims are assessed and determined because of the delay that the backlog had previously imposed or caused, which goes back to my very first point. We do believe, and I think it is a shared view, that veterans should be treated with respect. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Minister Keogh was wrong, but sadly for our veterans this was not one bad meeting. Minister Keogh's retrospective medals changes were condemned by veterans before he was forced to retreat. Then he withdrew longstanding travel support for the parents of VC recipient Cameron Baird VC, MG before public outrage forced your government to back down. Now veterans say they have lost trust and confidence in him. How many times does Minister Keogh have to fail veterans before the Prime Minister finally accepts they deserve someone better? <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>49</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:04</span>):  Thank you to Senator Cash. I would, again, make the same point I made on the previous occasion that, first, you are correct, Senator Cash—veterans are entitled to be treated with care and respect. That is why the government has ensured that additional funds were available to the Department of Veterans' Affairs. When we came to government, there was a backlog of around 42,000 veterans compensation claims. That caused delays in people being able to access any care. We acknowledge that there has been concern raised about the $5,000 cap or threshold. I'd make the point, again, to say, if there is a clinical need, that the access to allied health services above that threshold can continue. <span style="font-style:italic;">(</span><span style="font-style:italic;">Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Cash, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>49</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:05</span>):  Minister, again, you're not listening to the veterans. This is now a pattern of disrespect by the minister who was meant to be their champion—the medicals debacle, the treatment of the Baird family, the $5,000 allied health threshold and refusing to initially meet with the veterans who came to parliament to plead with your government. Now those veterans say they have lost confidence in their minister. If they've lost confidence in the minister, why hasn't the Prime Minister lost confidence in him?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  I think Minister Keogh did front the House of Representatives yesterday and make clear his acknowledgement about what he got wrong. He said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I acknowledge that I got it wrong in not agreeing to meet with them last week when that initial request came in. I own that. I met with them and I heard them last night.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">He then went on to talk through the meeting and said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">I take all of that feedback on board …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government is committed to ensuring that our veterans are treated with care and respect and continue to receive the support that they not only deserve but are entitled to as men and women who have served our country.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Superannuation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dowling, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>55842</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="55842" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DOWLING</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:06</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Australians spend their working lives building up their super to support themselves in retirement. Today, the Assistant Treasurer has announced another package of reforms to strengthen super. These reforms protect people's retirement savings from misconduct in the financial system. What will these reforms do, and how has the Albanese Labor government acted to protect Australians' retirement savings?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:07</span>):  I thank Senator Dowling for the question. It's an important question about how Labor continues to strengthen the superannuation and financial systems. As senators will know, the collapse of the Shield and First Guardian master funds exposed risks and vulnerabilities in parts of our financial system. Around 12,000 people were affected, and around $1 billion in retirement savings was impacted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Assistant Treasurer spoke at the National Press Club today, where he outlined another range of reforms, including banning unlicensed real-time communications around superannuation, tightening antihawking laws and strengthening penalties, and targeting the data harvesting and broking practices that sit at the front of these business models. It's also about accountability and compensation. If a trustee puts a product in front of members, that trustee should stand behind it. ASIC will be able to direct trustees to begin remediation where there are credible concerns that they have failed their obligations, and APRA will have the powers to ensure trustees offering higher risk products can meet those responsibilities. We are also progressing financial advice reforms, including a new class of adviser for super funds and life insurers and support for scaled advice. We're strengthening consumer protections to ensure that there is greater access to advice, but it will not come at the expense of member safety.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is from a party that built the superannuation system and a government that will always work to protect it and to safeguard it for future generations. It's a significant national asset, but we are all always needing to look at ways to strengthen and protect it in members' and workers' interests.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Dowling, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>50</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dowling, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>55842</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="55842" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DOWLING</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:09</span>):  Consumer protection is one part of the Albanese Labor government's agenda to strengthen super. What other changes has the government made to strengthen superannuation, and what will they mean for the balances Australians retire with?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>50</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:09</span>):  I thank Senator Dowling for that question as well. This week, in the chamber, we have talked about the reforms that Labor have done for superannuation including, importantly, ensuring that the superannuation guarantee rose to 12 per cent—after those opposite had delayed it and paused it; paying super on government funded paid parental leave to improve superannuation and how it works for women—again, no government before had been prepared to do that; in terms of the low-income super tax offset, making sure that low-income workers, predominantly women and young people, benefit from the increase to the low-income super tax offset; and legislating payday super, which means that your super sits in your super account, where it's working for you, as it should be. These have been significant and important reforms, and Labor will always protect superannuation. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Dowling, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Dowling, Sen Richard</name>
              <name.id>55842</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="55842" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DOWLING</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:10</span>):  The Albanese Labor government has lifted the superannuation guarantee to 12 per cent and has backed wage increases for millions of workers because we know that strong wages have benefits for super balances. Why is it important to support workers wages and to protect superannuation for working Australians?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
              <name.id>ING</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:11</span>):  I thank Senator Dowling for that very good question as well. New data released by the ABS today showed that wages grew in the June quarter, and annual nominal wages have now grown above three per cent for all of the four years under this government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                  </a>  I hear those opposite laughing. Under Labor, we have had 16 consecutive quarters, or four years, of wages growing above three per cent. There was not one quarter during 35 long quarters of the previous government where wages grew above three per cent. Thirty-five quarters—and not one quarter above three per cent. What we have on this side is 16 consecutive quarters, or four years, where wages have grown above three per cent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Senator Colbeck, order! Perhaps you didn't hear me, but I called order at least five times. When the minister sat down at the end of her question, you still continued your interjections. That is disorderly.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Defence Personnel</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Defence Personnel</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:12</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Yesterday, Minister Keogh admitted, 'I got it wrong,' when he initially refused to meet veterans who'd come to Parliament House concerned about Labor's $5,000 allied health limit. This is becoming a habit. He got it wrong when Labor tried to impose a 20-year limit on retrospective Defence honours and was forced to withdraw that legislation after veterans revolted. He got it wrong when his government stripped funding from Invictus Australia only to restore it after another backlash. And he got it wrong when he withdrew longstanding travel support from Doug and Kaye Baird—the parents of Corporal Cameron Baird VC, MG—before reversing that decision as well. How many times does Matt Keogh have to admit he got it wrong or be forced into an embarrassing backflip before the Prime Minister loses confidence in this minister for veterans affairs?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie, I remind you to refer to people in the other place by their correct titles.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>51</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:13</span>):  I thank the senator for the question. If you would indulge me, I do want to take this opportunity, on the second question, to acknowledge our friends from Japan and Tonga who have joined us for this question time. I'm trying to be very polite because you are here.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But, Senator, I think that really is the same question that was asked, with different words but the same propositions, by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. I understand the political point that is being made, but we don't agree with it. What I'd say to you is that, yes, the Prime Minister does have confidence in the minister. I would say to you that the minister has acknowledged what he has done wrong. I would say, also, that the minister has been very diligent in ensuring that the recommendations of the royal commission have been acted upon and are being acted upon. I can say—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  Just on a point of order on direct relevance, Madam President, I asked the minister about the—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Senator McKenzie. I remind you—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McKenzie:</span>
                  </a>  pattern of behaviour from this minister.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie, I'm speaking. I remind you that I've noted the question. The minister is being relevant and I'll continue to listen carefully.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  What we are concerned about is ensuring that our veterans are treated with the care and respect they deserve and that appropriate support is provided, which is why the government has made substantial investments in the Department of Veterans' Affairs. It's why the government has been consulting on the implementation of the recommendations of the royal commission, and it is why the government will continue to work with veterans to ensure that, in particular, the responses to the royal commission are implemented. To date, I advised the government has invested over $2 billion in funding to support initiatives in response to the royal commission. This is one of the most significant investments in veterans' wellbeing in Australian history and it has occurred under this government, this minister and, importantly, the Prime Minister, because we do believe that veterans should be respected and supported.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Minister. Senator McKenzie, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
                <name.id>207825</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>51</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  Minister, again, look at the pattern: medals, backflip; Invictus, backflip; the Baird family, backflip; meeting veterans, 'I got it wrong.' And now veterans are again pleading with the government to reconsider its $5,000 allied health threshold. How many more times do veterans have to force Minister Keogh to do his job before the Prime Minister finds someone who'll do it properly in the first place?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:16</span>):  At the conclusion of your question, Senator, you noted the $5,000 threshold. I appreciate you may not have paid much attention to my answer previously, but I again would say that the veterans—people can criticise, but could we at least have facts—will continue to have access—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  I would appreciate it if Senator McGrath would stop shouting at me across the table.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="217241" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McGrath interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Wong—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McGrath should stop shouting at me across the table</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator McGrath, you were completely disrespectful, particularly to me as I attempted to call order. You are not in a debate with me.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McGrath:</span>
                  </a>  No, I'm in debate with Senator Wong</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McGrath, come to order.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="217241" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McGrath interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McGrath, I've asked you to come to order. You can either come to order and be quiet or leave the chamber. Minister Wong, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. What I was saying is that it is misleading to fail to recognise what I have now told the chamber on multiple occasions, which is that the advice I have is that veterans will continue to have access to allied health services above the $5,000 threshold where there is a clinical need.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McGrath:</span>
                  </a>  The veterans are wrong?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  No, I'm saying what you said was wrong, Senator, not what veterans have said. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LNP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
                <name.id>217241</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LNP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McKenzie, Sen Bridget</name>
              <name.id>207825</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="207825" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator McKENZIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:18</span>):  Minister, these aren't isolated mistakes. Again and again, veterans raise the alarm and Minister Keogh refuses to listen. Public pressure builds, and then your government retreats. At what point does the Prime Minister accept that the problem is no longer the individual decision but Minister Keogh's judgement as the Minister for Veterans' Affairs?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>52</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:18</span>):  Well, I again would say that we believe—the Albanese government believes—that veterans should be treated with respect and should be provided with support.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <a href="207825" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKenzie interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKenzie, which part of 'Order!' does not apply to you? Minister Wong, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  I will start again. We believe those who serve our country should be—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Opposition senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Minister Wong, please continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  I will start again. The Albanese Labor government believes veterans should be treated with respect. Veterans should be supported and cared for. We believe that those who serve our country should be treated with respect and care. This is driven, for example—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">An opposition senator interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  If I may—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I have called for order two or three times and been completely ignored. That is disrespectful to me as the President of the Senate. I've asked you to come to order or leave the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WONG:</span>
                  </a>  This is why we dealt with the chronic underfunding and underresourcing of the Department of Veterans' Affairs that occurred under you opposite, where 42,000 veteran compensation claims were not dealt with. Those who lecture now ought to remember what you delivered in government. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>52</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
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                <first.speech />
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
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            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:20</span>):  My question is for the Minister representing the Minister for Housing, Senator Ayres. This morning at the ACTU's launch of its housing crisis plan, I heard from Lou, a nurse of 52 years, now 69, who walked away from her violent marriage with nothing. She was stalked as she slept on couches, in cars and in caravans. She's had to move further and further away from her family in Sydney, trying to find secure housing. She now pays rent that is worth more than half the pension and rent assistance combined. Rents are rising so much faster than Lou's wage. This morning she said: 'I'm unable to see a future. I feel broken and without hope.' This is a highly skilled, essential union worker who serves us every day. Your government has taken no action on the rental crisis by, for example, freezing or capping rents. What do you say to Lou, whose next rent increase may well put her back in her car?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:21</span>):  Thanks to Senator Pocock for that question. This is a government that has a bigger agenda in housing than any previous government. This is a government that is focused on the task of not just building and supporting the construction of homes in the private economy but delivering 55,000 social and affordable rental homes, 100,000 homes referred for first home buyers, and access to cheaper deposits for the workers that you point to. I do wonder, if you're so concerned about the position of people like the worker that you refer to, where were you?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Ayres, direct your answers to me, please.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  Where was she when it came to the Housing Affordability Future Fund legislation in this parliament? The truth of that and the answer to that is that the Greens political party was with One Nation and the Nationals and the poor old Liberals, holding up progress once again.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="169119" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  It is one thing for Senator Shoebridge to use the hyperbolic, bloviating rhetoric that he does—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Senator Ayres, please resume your seat.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="JKM" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McKim interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McKim, which part of 'Order!' doesn't apply to you? Order across the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  I mean, I'm always happy to be corrected on my grammar by the Liberals, that's for sure. But it's one thing to criticise; it's another thing to just use wild rhetoric and get so wound up in your own ideology and your own partisan self-interest that you find yourselves blocking the building of homes with One Nation and the Nationals and the Liberals. You have truly lost your way as what passed for a suburban political force. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I'm waiting for silence in the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="169119" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Shoebridge, again, asking for silence somehow passes you by, does it? Come to order. Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
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                <first.speech />
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              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
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                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge interjecting—</name>
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                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
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                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator McKim interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
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            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
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          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>53</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:24</span>):  I think, Minister, they are lines that will be of no comfort whatsoever to Lou and the one-third of Australians who are out there today listening to the real estate gals calling for increases in rents up to 30 per cent. Rents have gone up 23 per cent in the last five years when real wages under your government, despite figures we heard earlier, fell by five per cent in real terms. Renters don't have a buffer. They are the buffer for landlords and investors. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="282997" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Scarr:</span>
                  </a>  Give us some bloviating, Tim!</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>53</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:24</span>):  You can look forward to plenty more. I would just say that what renters can look forward to from the Greens political party is words, slogans and posts on social media—sometimes associating themselves with the achievements of this government—saying, 'We did it.' But it's mostly hyperbolic, partisan criticism that has no foundation in reality. What they can look forward to from this government is effort, reform—tax reform too—practical assistance and more homes.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOL" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Colbeck:</span>
                  </a>  But not more housing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  I hear the interjection. I agree with you, Senator Colbeck—more homes. They can look forward to more homes, more supply and more action from a government that is committed to building more homes, building them more cheaply and providing more young Australians, in particular, access to the housing market.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Colbeck, Sen Richard</name>
                <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
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            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:25</span>):  Minister, we know rent caps work. Look at the ACT. Rent caps there have kept rents down. Minister, why won't your government work with the states to do anything to help renters facing unlimited rent increases when we have a living, breathing, success story in the ACT? Why do you refuse to work with the states and to help renters and, instead, back in rich landlords and unlimited rent increases, which are throwing hardworking union members like Lou into despair?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:26</span>):  What we do is not use people as props. What we do is support the construction of new housing. The evidence in relation to rent caps is very strong. What it does is hold back construction of new homes. It's not an effective measure. It's an effective slogan but not an effective measure, in policy terms, for delivering real homes for people. That is the activity that this government has set about doing, with $47 billion in measures for home construction in the private market, through to social and affordable housing. I know that doesn't suit the Greens political party's hyperventilating rhetoric.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="169119" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Wong, on a point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  I just wonder if it would be possible for Senator Shoebridge to at least pause in his interjections.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  You can't help yourself. I've known lots of blokes like you—you and George Brandis.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="169119" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Shoebridge interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  He's the Senate genius!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Minister Wong, order!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  One does wonder how he continues to do it. Senator Shoebridge breathes through his ears. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>54</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Manufacturing Industry</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Manufacturing Industry</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:28</span>):  My question is to the Minister for Industry and Innovation, Senator Ayres. The Albanese Labor government is delivering the largest pro-manufacturing package in Australian history, backing investment in new energy, critical minerals and advanced manufacturing to drive long-term growth. Can the minister explain how the government's securing well-paid jobs in our outer suburbs and regions to create a stronger, safer and more resilient future made in Australia?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>54</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:29</span>):  Thank you, Senator O'Neill, for that question. As somebody who's been a proud supporter in regional New South Wales and regional Australia of the government's Future Made in Australia approach, I do welcome that question. It is unambiguously about making Australia stronger; making our industrial regions and our outer suburbs, where factories are inevitably built, stronger and fairer; and rebuilding our industrial base facility by facility. This isn't, of course, about making every single thing within Australia. It's not a return to protectionism but about making our economy more complex, more productive, with good jobs, and making sure that we're more resilient in the future. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have secured, through our interventions thus far, more than 35,000 jobs in regional economies like Mount Isa, Port Pirie, Hobart, Whyalla, Gladstone and the Hunter Valley—smelting capacity in lead and zinc and copper, aluminium and steel, and in critical minerals like gallium and antimony. There are 7½ thousand more manufacturing businesses in Australia than there were before this government took office. There is over $1.65 billion worth of investments through the National Reconstruction Fund.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is about hard work with Australian industry to make our economy stronger and to make our nation stronger as well, and more resilient in potentially tougher times ahead, with the benefits of these investments flowing through to blue-collar jobs in engineering and trades jobs in regions like the Hunter Valley and in our outer suburbs, and in particular for young Australians. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:31</span>):  Last week the Albanese Labor government announced that it will invest $2.5 billion, with the New South Wales government, to secure the future of Tomago Aluminium in the Hunter, prioritising investment in Australia's regions to increase our national resilience and deliver good-quality blue-collar jobs. Minister, how does keeping this capability onshore make Australia stronger? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:32</span>):  This investment is vital for our national resilience—6,000 jobs delivered in that region, secured through renewable energy, through wind and solar investments backed by gas, backed by storage.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="00AOL" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Colbeck interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator AYRES:</span>
                  </a>  'Alternative views', I hear Senator Colbeck say. And I saw what Mr Hastie said the other day. He blamed renewable energy for Tomago's problems. It's like blaming doctors for disease. It's like blaming ambulance drivers for car accidents. The thing that is securing the future of Tomago Aluminium, the thousands and thousands of jobs and that industrial capability—our end-to-end aluminium capability—is this government's efforts to rebuild what was left to us in a moribund, clapped-out electricity system. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator O'Neill, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck interjecting—</name>
                <name.id />
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
                <name.id>16913</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator O'NEILL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:33</span>):  The Tomago Aluminium smelter supports more than 6,000 jobs across the Hunter region. Can the minister explain what this means for the workers of Tomago Aluminium and their families? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ayres, Sen Tim</name>
              <name.id>16913</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="16913" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator AYRES</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Industry and Innovation and Minister for Science</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:33</span>):  Thank you to Senator O'Neill. This is a workplace I've been going to for 30 years in my efforts in our industrial economy. And I can tell you that, while we are focused on those issues of national resilience and industrial progress, of course it has a human dimension. I have met many of these people before, many times, over the course of my working life. Operator Luke Miller said, 'When you've got young kids, it's pretty good to be able to come home with a smile and tell them that we've got at least another 10 years.' Marcus Faulkner, who's worked there for over 30 years, said, 'Let's be honest; we were going to be out of a job.' The Prime Minister spoke to a young family—mum and dad, who worked at Tomago Aluminium, knew that they could now buy a home with confidence. It has a human dimension. These people turn up for work early and work hard, and the government is working hard for them. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I advise the chamber that Senator Thorpe has passed her question to Senator Roberts. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northen Australia Infrastructure Facility</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Northen Australia Infrastructure Facility</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:34</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Northern Australia, Senator Farrell. Minister, the great Australian infrastructure project—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order! Senator Roberts, please resume your seat. Order across the chamber. I need to be able to hear the question. Senator Roberts, I'm going to invite you to start again, and I expect there to be silence.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator ROBERTS:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, President. There'll be no welcome to country. My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Northern Australia, Senator Farrell. The great Australian infrastructure project, GAIN, proposal has been with the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility for more than two months now. The proponents have provided all the information the NAIF requested.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This proposal is coming from a consortium of leading Australian companies, some publicly listed, who have the expertise and resources including funding to progress this project. The GAIN project will add more than $100 billion to Australia's GDP, provide 40,000 breadwinner jobs and provide transport, power, water and internet access across northern Australia, including lifting remote Aboriginal communities out of poverty through improved market access, town services and tourism.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister, will you undertake to work with the NAIF to progress GAIN as a matter of urgency?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
                <name.id>266524</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>55</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:36</span>):  I thank Senator Roberts for his intriguing question and thank him for the advance notice, which gives me an opportunity to give a very factual response.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="282997" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Scarr:</span>
                  </a>  As opposed to usual.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FARRELL:</span>
                  </a>  That is very unkind. Look, I could be hurt by something like that, but I won't take offence. So just as to make sure I understand this particular project, the idea behind this particular project, is to run a transcontinental railway line from Pilbara through to the Bowen Basin. That's the proposal we're talking about here, I think. Senator Roberts, just to make sure—?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Farrell, Senator Roberts has asked a fulsome question. It's not question and answer. Thank you for standing, Senator Roberts, but I'm going to ask the minister to continue.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FARRELL:</span>
                  </a>  Well, let's assume for the purpose of the debate—and perhaps in your subsequent question, you can answer that question—if this item has only recently been put forward to the NAIF then I don't think the proponents on a proposal like this, a very dramatic big-picture proposal, should necessarily expect a response in weeks. It obviously is a very ambitious project. I can recall when South Australia handed back the Northern Territory to the federal government in 1911, the condition was that the railway line between Alice Springs and Darwin would be completed and that took another 80 years to happen, so these big-picture proposals don't occur overnight. But can I say this— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Roberts, a first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>55</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
                <name.id>I0N</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <continue>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
                <name.id>I0N</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </continue>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:38</span>):  The mining industry employs 314,000 Australians directly and 800,000 indirectly. These are largely breadwinner jobs that create families. Many are union members. Minister, why is the supposed party of the worker showing no interest in a project that will create tens of thousands of breadwinner jobs in mining, steel, ceramics, fertiliser, industrial gas—including oxygen—and cement, which we badly need for housing construction and to revitalise the productivity in this country?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:38</span>):  I would hope all of the jobs would be union jobs, not just some—the Australian Workers' Union, I suppose, a very good union, a very fine union actually, come to think of it. All of those things that you've just mentioned are really, really good things for this country to be doing and, I would imagine, would be the sorts of things that the NAIF is interested in. But the NAIF has an independent board process that assesses all project financing applications against its investment mandate and rigorous due diligence requirements. You wouldn't want a project that can't be successful to be supported by public funds, I'm sure. These processes can take some time, and as the NAIF very, very diligently manages public funds— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Roberts, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>56</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:40</span>):  Aboriginal communities across the Top End are living in appalling conditions. The GAIN project will bring transport, town water, electricity, internet, fresh food and market access to more than 100 remote communities. It will facilitate movement of cattle to port in a way that does not stress the animal and improve returns to Aboriginal communities who rely on grazing for their income. Minister, why is the government not interested in a real project to change the lives of Aboriginals in remote communities?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Farrell, Sen Don</name>
              <name.id>I0N</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0N" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator FARRELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Trade and Tourism, Special Minister of State and Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:40</span>):  Senator Roberts, this government is interested in doing exactly what you say in Indigenous communities around the country. Obviously, if this project could help those people, then that's a very good thing. Given your interest in this, Senator Roberts, I shall personally make some inquiries to see whether or not I can find out where this proposal is up to. It's a very ambitious proposal. I think you're being a little bit unrealistic in how quickly you can expect a response, but, nevertheless, I shall take it upon myself to make an inquiry to see where it's up to and I shall come back to you personally on this issue as soon as I can.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:41</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Yesterday, the Prime Minister dismissed warnings of higher rents as an 'absurd justification'. This morning, the Minister for Housing, Minister O'Neil, claimed that the impacts of Labor's taxes on rent rises would be very small, and Assistant Minister Hill questioned the motives of real estate agents who are speaking out. Treasury says the impact of Labor's taxes on housing will be just $2 a week. Minister Butler said, 'We are very confident in our forecast.' Will the minister guarantee that no Australian renter will pay more than $2 a week more because of Labor's increased taxes on housing?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>56</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:42</span>):  What I can say is this. I can absolutely guarantee that our changes are motivated by a desire to bring on more housing supply. And I can guarantee that your opposition to the government's changes would have resulted in less housing supply in this country. I think we can all see what the opposition is doing, and what I would say is that I think we know some of the reporting has not been accurate. I would refer you to the clarification both from the NAB and from Ray White real estate today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's again look at the facts. The budget made no change for people who already negatively gear property. I remind the senator who supports higher taxes and larger deficits, Senator Hume, that the arrangements that were in place up to budget night remain grandfathered in. Secondly, I would make the point that negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount of 50 per cent can still be used for new builds. So, when people choose to invest in housing, they will be investing not just in their future wealth and assets but also in the assets of the nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The ABS, the Australian Bureau of Statistics, have pointed out that these settings have already made a difference. There are more investors borrowing to build new homes than ever before, and there are fewer investors competing with first home buyers for existing homes. In the June quarter there was a 27 per cent increase in investor loans for new builds and a 20 per cent increase for construction loans. What all of this means is that we are already seeing the market responding to the incentive for additional supply. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:44</span>):  The Minister for Housing told Australian renters not to listen to politicians. I don't think that's going to be a problem. I'm pretty sure Australians stopped believing the housing minister and the Prime Minister some time ago. Under Labor, median capital city rents have risen from $470 to $690 a week. Was Minister O'Neil really warning renters not to believe her own government's claims that these tax changes will cost them just $2 a week? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:44</span>):  Senator Hume talks about people not listening to politicians, and I wonder if people were supposed to listen when she said that tax cuts were 'egregious' or not. Were people supposed to listen when she went to the last election advocating for higher taxes? Were we supposed to listen or not when you advocated for higher taxes and lower wages and higher deficits? Were we supposed to listen? I'm all ears, Senator, as to whether or not we were supposed to listen to you when you said all these things over and over again. We are committed to bringing more housing supply into the market because that will help renters and that will help first home buyers, and those policies are all about dealing with the lack of housing supply that occurred under the coalition. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
              <name.id>266499</name.id>
              <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator HUME</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Opposition</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:46</span>):  Yesterday, the Minister for Housing boasted that Labor has the boldest housing policy in 70 years—how very <span style="font-style:italic;">Yes Minister</span><span style="font-style:italic;">.</span> Rents are up already by $220 a week under Labor. They're up 29 per cent in the Treasurer's own electorate, and experts are warning the Prime Minister's new taxes could push rents even higher. Minister, is 'bold policy' just Labor's latest excuse for making renters poorer? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
              <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WONG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Foreign Affairs and Leader of the Government in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:46</span>):  Senator, this government is about bringing more new housing supply into the system. This government has also increased rent assistance by more than 50 per cent, the largest increase in three decades, Senator, which is not something you have ever advocated for nor something you have ever supported, as far as I can see. So, far from being the champion of renters, I don't know that anybody would think of Senator Hume as the champion of renters. I think people would know Senator Hume is the champion of lower wages for working people. So don't come in here and pretend you are somehow a champion of renters when we know that the very wages that so many families in this country rely on—you would advocate for lower wages. Well, that is not Labor's way. What we will do is keep working to bring more housing supply into the market. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, Minister. Order! Senator Hume, I called you personally about three times. I called order, and you completely disrespected me. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  I'm sorry.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>57</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hume, Sen Jane</name>
                <name.id>266499</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Avian Influenza</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Avian Influenza</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:48</span>):  My question is to the Minister for the Environment and Water, Senator Watt. Minister, the <span style="font-style:italic;">N</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ational risk scores for H5 bird flu for native birds and mammals</span>, a document released on 4 August, has been referred to as the bird flu 'doom list'. It places nearly 380 species at high risk to extreme risk, including five at extreme risk. Extreme risk seems to mean a species will not survive where the virus occurs. The doom list was released to the public just over two weeks ago. How long has this list existed? </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>57</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:48</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock, for the question. Obviously, our government is taking the risk of H5 bird flu extremely seriously. We started taking that seriously well before we started seeing the first cases of that strain of bird flu enter Australia's shores. It's why, for the last couple of years, our government has been investing in preparedness. I dare say that that's one of the reasons that it has taken so long for that strain of bird flu to get to Australia, noting that we are the last continent on Earth to have this strain arrive on our shores. The list that you're referring to, which some environmental organisations have referred to in the way that you have, was published by my department a couple of weeks ago. I don't know the exact date that it was first prepared, but it wasn't months earlier. It's been an ongoing piece of work. It was an important piece of work undertaken by my department to inform our preparedness exercises.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">It so happens that the five species that were identified as being at extreme risk of extinction in that list have all received some form of financial support towards their resilience, monitoring or surveillance under the preparedness activities that we've been undertaking over the last couple of years—as have many of the other species listed in that list as being at high risk of extinction. That has been an ongoing piece of work that has informed the funding decisions that my department has undertaken. To give you a couple of examples, here in the ACT, we have invested $60,000 towards supporting the construction and deployment of floating island refuges across the ACT's lakes, dams and wetlands. In New South Wales, more than $1.2 million is supporting New South Wales to reduce invasive species. They're the kinds of investments that have been made to protect those very endangered species. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:50</span>):  Thank you, Minister. I appreciate it. If you are happy to give us that date at some point when your office can get it, that would be great.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">According to the Biodiversity Council, this year's budget cuts on-ground nature programs by nine per cent in real terms. How can the government say that it's serious about no new extinctions and being prepared when we see a cut to on-the-ground conservation in this country?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:51</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock. I have seen that claim made by the Biodiversity Council, and I don't think they would be the only advocacy organisation in the country who would be seeking more funding for the issues that they care about. That is the role of advocacy groups. In a similar way, we see housing groups seek more funding for housing. We see business groups seek more assistance for business. Understandably, we see a group called the Biodiversity Council seek more funding for biodiversity. That is the nature of things.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I do reject, though, their claim about the funding that has been provided in this year's budget. I was very pleased that we were able to extend the funding for our Saving Native Species program, which, again, is investing in the resilience of endangered species. Of course, the funding that we provide through the Natural Heritage Trust is continuing as well. So I reject the figures that they have cited. I'm very proud of the efforts that this government has made to invest in our native species to back in our commitment to have no further extinctions.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>58</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  Minister, as you know, conservation groups have costed an urgent response of $200 million over the next two years for predator control, surveillance, wildlife response capacity and insurance populations. Will the government be coughing up $200 million to save these species, given the kind of money we see going to smelters and other places? This is our natural heritage, our environment, that we're talking about.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:52</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock. Again, this government has already invested significant funds towards the resilience of our precious native species. Of the $113 million that this government has invested in bird flu preparedness, around $47 million of that has gone towards wildlife resilience. Again, you would expect the groups that are calling for this additional investment to do that. That is their role. They have, in fact, been calling for that kind of investment to occur in native species for some time, not just since bird flu arrived.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've said that we have an open mind about the need for further funding in this space. My colleague Minister Collins is, obviously, also working with states and territories about the needs of the agriculture sector to deal with the bird flu virus having arrived here. I might say, though, that we make no apologies whatsoever for investing in the future manufacturing capacity of our country and the tens of thousands of jobs that rely on it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wages and Salaries</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wages and Salaries</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <question>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>58</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:53</span>):  My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Watt. The Albanese Labor government is delivering real change for Australian workers by helping Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn. Today, new data released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics shows that the wages of Australian workers have risen again, growing above three per cent. Can the minister provide details on the data and outline the factors which have led to this increase?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>59</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">14:54</span>):  Thanks, Senator Smith, who, again, is one of the very active members on this side of the chamber who've put a lot of work into wage rises for Australians over the years. In good news for Australians and particularly good news for Senator Hume as the shadow spokesperson, new data released by the ABS today shows real wages grew in the June quarter and annual nominal wages have now grown above three per cent for all four years under this Labor government. Senator Hume, I look forward to your press release welcoming the fact that Australian wages are increasing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Real wages were up this quarter, but we acknowledge they were down through the year—not because wages have been too low but because inflation is still too high, something that the government is playing its role to drive down. The ongoing wage increases for Australian workers is a direct result of the Albanese Labor government's workplace laws, which were consistently opposed by the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's recognise how much pressure many Australian families are under right now due to the global inflation shock that they are dealing with. Can you imagine how much harder life would be for those Australian families if we still had a government in Australia that wanted to see wages remain low and dedicated its entire economic policy apparatus to keeping wages low? That's the situation that Australian workers and their families would have been in.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We're helping to deliver higher wages for workers because we know this is one of the best ways to help with the cost of living. We're helping to boost wages for workers, giving every taxpayer a tax cut, and strengthening super at the same time as we're helping to address inflation. If you want an indication about where the Liberals, Nationals and One Nation stand on these issues, just think about the fact that Senator Hume famously claimed that wage increases 'would be the worst thing for Australians'.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  When did I say that?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  How out of touch with the reality of Australians!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  Is that a lie?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberContinuation">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator WATT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hanson is no different, saying: 'You can't just say, 'We're going to give you a rise. The reality is'— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Smith, first supplementary?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralInterjecting">An honourable senator:</span>  Hang on.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McAllister?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="121628" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McAllister:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume's interjection was disorderly and she ought to withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="266499" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Hume interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Just a moment, Senator Hume. I did not hear an interjection. I'm sure, if Senator Hume made an interjection, she will withdraw it, but I did not hear it. Senator Hume?</span>
              </p>
              <a href="121628" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McAllister interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator McAllister, you've made your point. I've invited Senator Hume—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  There was a reflection made upon me, and I don't think it's unreasonable to respond to that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Honourable senators interjecting</span>—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Order. I believe I'm running the chamber.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="217241" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator McGrath interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Who said that? That can be withdrawn, that comment.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator McGrath:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. Senator Hume, I didn't hear the comment. I've invited you to withdraw. If you don't wish to, that is your decision.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you, President. I will withdraw, but I would ask you to consider exactly what was said by the minister in his response.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. Please resume your seat, Minister Watt. As I said at the beginning, I did not hear the interjection. I can't consider something I did not hear. I've invited you to withdraw. You've asked me to consider it, but I cannot consider something I did not hear.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  Again, I reiterate that I do withdraw. However, it does seem to be an increasingly common occurrence that those opposite are reflecting on those on this side of the chamber, and that goes unchecked by you, President.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, please resume your seat.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="266499" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Hume interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Hume, please resume your seat. You're not in a debate with me. I've asked you to withdraw—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  And I have withdrawn.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Well, you've also added a caveat. I would simply ask you, if you're going to withdraw, to withdraw the comment without any other additions.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="00AOU" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Wong interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Just a moment, Senator Wong. Senator Hume, I'm inviting you, once again, as I do with every senator in this place—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266499" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hume:</span>
                  </a>  I withdraw.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you. Sometimes I hear interjections and sometimes I don't. You will find, if you reflect on my record, if I hear an interjection, I ask for it to be withdrawn. Minister Wong?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  Thank you.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Is this on the point of order?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  It's on the point of order. We accept Senator Hume's point of order. We accept that Senator Hume has withdrawn. We are happy for you to consider the matter that Senator Hume has averred to. I would make the point there are existing provisions in the standing orders, if senators feel that something incorrect has been said, that they can avail themselves of. It's not a matter for the President to censor what every senator says. I would suggest that those opposite would understand that having said some of the things they have said over the years.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  I will inform the chamber, once again, that the only comment I can have a look at later is what Senator Watt said. Now, that doesn't give it a context. I did not hear what Senator Hume said. She has withdrawn in the interest of the chamber. I thank her for that. I'm happy to listen to what Senator Watt has said, but I'm not sure it gives me much more to go on.</span>
              </p>
              <a href="243273" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Ruston interjecting</span>—</span>
                </p>
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                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Ruston, you're not in a debate with me. Senator Smith, first supplementary?</span>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
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                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
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                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
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                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
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        </answer>
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          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
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            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:00</span>):  Lifting the wages of working Australians is one of the ways the Albanese Labor government is helping people with cost-of-living pressures. Minister, what policies has this government implemented to support higher wages for Australian workers?</span>
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            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </question>
        <answer>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:00</span>):  Thanks, Senator Smith. The Albanese Labor government understands that many Australians are under pressure at the moment. That's why we're taking action by helping to address inflation and rolling out more cost-of-living relief, including higher wages and more tax cuts. Just last month, almost 2.8 million workers on the national minimum wage and the modern award got a pay boost, and 14 million Australian taxpayers got another tax cut under this government. Our government supported the increase to the minimum wage through our submission to the Fair Work Commission.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now, we know that higher productivity is key to higher wages and living standards over the long term, and that's why turning around Australia's longstanding productivity challenge, which goes back at least 20 years, is also a key focus of the government. We've made a lot of progress in our economy, with strong wages growth under Labor, but the job's not yet done. We know that Australian people are under pressure, and that's why we continue to take action to boost their wages, help address inflation and deliver cost-of-living relief.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Smith, second supplementary?</span>
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                <page.no>60</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
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          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
              <name.id>281603</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
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                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="281603" type="MemberQuestion">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberQuestion">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:01</span>):  Minister, higher wages in the pay packets of millions of Australian workers helps lift the standard of living. That means more money for the things that matter, like putting a roof over your head or putting food on the table. Minister, why is the Albanese Labor government supportive of higher wages, and are there any obstacles that may stand in the way?</span>
              </p>
              <a href="282997" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Scarr interjecting</span>—</span>
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                <page.no>60</page.no>
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            <talker>
              <page.no>60</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Watt, Sen Murray</name>
              <name.id>245759</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
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          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="245759" type="MemberAnswer">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberAnswer">Senator WATT</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for the Environment and Water</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:02</span>):  It sounded to me like Senator Scarr was putting up his hand when the word obstacles was used then! Higher wages do mean a better life for working Australians and their families, and, every day, every member of the Albanese Labor government pushes for higher wages because we know that it will improve the lives of the millions of Australians that we represent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When we first came to office, real wages were going backwards under the coalition by 3.6 per cent. Both annual and quarterly real wages fell for the last five quarters under those opposite, and that's because lower wages were a key design feature for the Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison governments' economic policy. The reality is that those on the other side hate wage rises. They might have different party names, but, for the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation, there's never a good time for a wage rise. They're already in coalition—the Liberals, the Nationals and One Nation—because they need each other to govern and because they share an agenda, which is all about cutting Australian wages and making life harder.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="00AOU" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Wong:</span>
                  </a>  President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Notice Paper</span>.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>61</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Wong, Sen Penny</name>
                <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </answer>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</span>
          </p>
          <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Normal">
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</span>
              <span style="font-weight:bold;">:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with the informal arrangements agreed on by the whips.</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Answers to Questions</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
              <name.id>297964</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:03</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Well, I must admit that I am growing increasingly disappointed with the Labor government and the way that it continues to back in its ministers that are failing the people of Australia. We asked today about Minister Keogh, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs—and, quite frankly, what a disgrace he's been for our veterans. We have seen a pattern from this government since the start of the year. Let me run through all the insults that they have hurled at our veteran and serving community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">First they released the <span style="font-style:italic;">Defence estate audit</span> report, which told all the veterans and serving members in Australia that they were going to sell our key defence assets, like Victoria Barracks Sydney, which is the birthplace of the Australian Army and the heart and soul of the Australian Defence Force. They didn't do any consultations on that. They didn't do any consultations on Lancer Barracks, which is a place that people call home, a place veterans have called home for decades and decades and a place where they ask to have their ashes spread. They ask to return home to their barracks. This Labor government doesn't care. They want to sell it and put apartment blocks there. They want to sell it to the highest bidder because the Minister for Defence can't get the money he needs to pay the bills.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then they brought the most bizarre bill to parliament about medals and the tribunal, which told veterans that they now had a time limit to get their applications in for a medal or an appeal for a medal. They had to pay for the application, and they restricted the people that could apply on their behalf. Of the 63 submissions that went in on this particular bill, 62 of them said: 'What on earth are you doing here? Why are you doing this?' There was also a clause in that bill that gave the minister the power to remove a medal from a veteran, and no-one could appeal it. Not one person could appeal that. It was a political decision. Guess what happened with that bill? They had to remove it because there was such public outcry and backlash.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then they tried to cut funding for Invictus, which is such an important institution for our veteran family right across the world. The things it does for the mental health of our veterans—they tried to cut that, but they've withdrawn that. Then they tried to take the funding away from the Baird family who go around Australia and teach our children about our Victoria Cross recipient and his brave heroism for our country. They backflipped on that too.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now they're trying to put caps on allied health for our veterans. We had veterans come down here just this week to tell our minister that this is not okay. He did not receive them. He did not shake their hands. All he did was roll his eyes at them. What an absolute disgrace. I say to the Labor government that the standard you walk past is the standard you accept, and you have all backed him in. It's a disgrace and it's an embarrassment. I want to say to all the veterans out there that I am truly sorry, on behalf of this government, for how they've treated you.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>61</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen</name>
              <name.id>e5x</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e5x" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator POLLEY</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:08</span>):  Well, that was an interesting contribution from the good senator on the other side. Obviously she's got her speaking notes. Yet again they want to whip up a scare campaign when, really, we need to talk about the facts. Let's talk about the facts of what this government has done since we came into office and cleaned up the mess that those opposite left behind.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But, before I get into that, as somebody who is very proud of my family's contribution to serving this great country in the Defence Force—generation after generation—I can tell you from firsthand experience who was in government in the fifties and sixties, who neglected the veterans who came back from the Second World War and who did nothing at all to support them or their families. That's the reality of it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's look at what happened while you were in government in the previous decade. What happened then? Everything was absolutely run down. You did nothing in terms of providing accommodation or giving veterans the support that they needed. I honestly don't think—well, there might be some people in that corner down there, but the majority of people in this chamber actually respect and want to honour the brave men and women who are enlisted in the three defence forces that serve this country, and every one of us should be very grateful for them. Too many of them have lost their lives in conflicts and also suffered greatly on their return. But, as to the reality of what's happening, those opposite do little when it comes to being truthful about the facts.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since we came into government, the amount of investment that has been made by this government is in the order of more than $233 million. That's the reality of it. We have also rebuilt the Department of Veterans' Affairs because those opposite allowed it to be run down so that it was an ordeal trying to get support from the department for those very real veterans that those opposite are now trying to use for their own political advantage. Labor also has acted to simplify the complex veterans compensation scheme, and the government has progressed the reforms to harmonise and simplify the legislation, responding to the first recommendations of the royal commission. They want you to believe that there was nothing to see on that side when they were in government for 10 years and all the problems are here. I will say that at least the minister acknowledged that he made an error, unlike the former minister, who was the minister for colour coding and rorting the grants that she had responsibility for, Senator McKenzie. At no time did she ever apologise for what she did.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm going to run out of time, but I also want to put on record, when it comes to housing, the record of those opposite, who joined with the Greens and held up legislation dealing with the Housing Australian Future Fund for an entire week in this chamber to avoid having a vote, because they wanted to play politics with housing and homelessness in this country. What they do when it suits their political narrative is to come here and cry those crocodile tears, but, when you look at what we have done in the time that we've been in government, as opposed to those opposite, the record is very, very clear. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="30484" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  Senator Polley, I will advise you to be cautious in your use of language. Some of the language you used was getting very close to an imputation.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>62</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Brockman, Sen Slade (The DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>30484</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McGrath, Sen James</name>
              <name.id>217241</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LNP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="217241" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McGRATH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:12</span>):  I would like to apologise to the veterans and their families for the fact that you have a minister for veterans affairs who is the worst minister for veterans affairs since the creation of the department in 1976. By the way, the Prime Minister has full confidence in this minister's incompetence. This is a minister who refused to take a meeting with veterans yesterday who wished to raise very important issues concerning the health treatment and the health services available to veterans. This minister refused to take the meeting. He was shamed into then taking the meeting and—I know this as a fact—he walked into the meeting and refused to shake the hands of the veterans. What a disgrace to the veterans and their families. A disgraceful minister refused to shake the hands of the veterans. He sat in this meeting, folded his arms—like this—and rolled his eyes at the veterans because he was upset that he was unable to go to a social function at Government House. He was upset that he had to give up having tea with the Governor-General. Instead, he had to do his day job, which was to meet with veterans to deal with the issues that impact their lives.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This minister is the worst minister for veterans affairs since the creation of the department. Ever since he's been sworn in as a minister, his decisions have had to be reversed. He's had to backflip on serious decisions because he has disrespected the veterans and their communities. The Prime Minister might have confidence in the minister for veterans affairs, but the opposition does not, and I can say that every veteran and every veterans group that I know—and I know quite a few—do not have confidence in this minister for veterans affairs. They know that he's not up to the job. They know that he does not understand that this country is safe because of these men and women putting their lives at risk.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'll give you another example of this minister's incompetence. Three years ago, the defence honours tribunal brought down a decision and made a reference to the minister. This minister sat on that decision, concerning the service of the men who served in Rifle Company Butterworth in Malaysia during the Malayan emergencies. The minister has sat on the decision of this tribunal for three years. This is a classic case of delay, deny, die. This minister refuses to meet with veterans, hoping that they'll fade, that they'll go away, using bureaucratic language, because the minister's response is that it needs a whole-of-government response before he can make a decision. Well, I say to the veterans of Rifle Company Butterworth and to the veterans who were in the non-meeting earlier this week that I'm sorry that you have such a poor minister for veterans affairs. I am sorry to Australians that you have such a poor minister for veterans affairs. I am sorry for those men who have died for Australia that we have such a poor minister for veterans affairs.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>62</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sheldon, Sen Tony</name>
              <name.id>168275</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="168275" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHELDON</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Chief Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:16</span>):  Think of all the issues that the coalition would bring up in question time—and they bring up housing! These are the people that wanted to take tens of billions of dollars out of housing at the last election. These are the people that opposed the HAFF, Help to Buy and Build to Rent. Actually, it's more than that. Not only are these the people with a policy strategy to take billions of dollars—$29 billion to be exact—out of housing, the ones that starved housing for just over a decade; these are the people that turn around and think this about housing: when asked about the policy on 12 August on <span style="font-style:italic;">ABC Radio National</span>, Liberal shadow Treasurer and spokesperson Tim Wilson said that, in some cases, people could put 'a jumper on in winter rather than spending huge amounts of money' on improving housing quality. That was in response to Senator Bragg at the National Press Club on 12 August. The Guardian said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The opposition's housing and environment spokesperson, Andrew Bragg, said a Coalition government would cut the National Construction Code from more than 2,000 pages to 80, and strip away all requirements for new homes beyond demanding they were "basic and safe".</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Well, Senator Bragg, if you did your homework, what you're suggesting is that essential structure, fire safety and health related standards will be retained. But the fact is that the fire related sections in the existing code run for more than 80 pages. So what's left—the house falls down? That's the policy they have—tens of billions of dollars out of housing and a policy to turn around and put people into hovels. And, if the hovel's too cold, wear a jumper!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, you have on the flip side of the delay for the HAFF, Help to Buy and Build to Rent the Greens, because they also blocked those arrangements—a nearly 12-month delay from getting support to many, many people in need in our community. That's social housing for single parents and people seeking to escape domestic violence. One thing I do agree with the Greens on, because they agree with us too on this—in actual fact, everybody agrees on this—is that housing was not being built for social housing and affordable housing in this country during the period that the coalition was in power. I'll just say that figure again: it was $29 billion that they wanted to take out of social and affordable housing in this country, when there's such a problem for our kids, our families, our neighbours, our community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then they jump to the important issue of questions about rent. So now they're running a rent scare campaign! The opposition and the Greens have been running on this unity ticket for a new housing scare campaign. I say 'the opposition'—of course, that's One Nation, the Nationals and the Liberals; the coalition to the Right, coming up with these extremist views, thinking that the lowest common denominator is what they should take to the election or what they should fight for to say that they have a place in government.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>The reality of what people are saying about the rent strategy is—and these are important people. These are the people who are actually involved in the rent organisations. They're the ones listening to renters. They're the ones actually turning around and saying the policies we've brought in are making a difference. Organisations which represent renters back the changes we've done on CGT. They back the changes we've done across the board in the announcements that were opposed by those opposite—delayed by those to my right. For example, Everybody's Home said rents have been surging for years, partly because investor tax breaks have been fuelling the housing crisis. The idea that we should be doing more of the same is an insult to the intelligence— <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>63</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sharma, Sen Dave</name>
              <name.id>274506</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="274506" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHARMA</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:20</span>):  It was a year ago today that the Economic Reform Roundtable kicked off in this building in Canberra. It feels like an eternity ago because nothing has happened since. That was the time when we had CEOs and trade union leaders and industry groups—the great and the good—file into Canberra to be geed up by the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, and the Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, and to be told by them that they wanted 100 flowers to bloom and they wanted to hear all ideas on the table about how to boost productivity. I was just familiarising myself with the concluding press conference that the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, gave at the end of that. He said in that press conference:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… higher living standards is the holy grail, and a more productive economy is how we deliver it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We haven't heard much on the one year anniversary of this Economic Reform Roundtable from the Labor government. I would have thought they would be championing their achievements and highlighting the gains that have been made. Jim Chalmers, in his closing press conference, talked about 29 hours of discussions, 327 different contributions and the spirit of camaraderie and constructiveness that characterised the conversation. Here we are, one year later, and, if you look at the scorecard, things are worse on every metric. Productivity is lower. Productivity was growing at 0.8 per cent annually at the time of the Economic Reform Roundtable. It's now down to 0.3 per cent. The Reserve Bank expects productivity to actually go backwards for this calendar year by 0.5 per cent, and the Reserve Bank has downgraded its long-range or medium-term productivity forecasts for Australia to 0.7 per cent.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've got inflation which is eating workers' nominal wage increases and inflation high at 3.8 per cent. We just got the figures from the ABS about the wage price index, and it confirmed, as Minister Watt acknowledged, that it shows real wages have gone backwards again over the past year. In fact, real wages have been underneath the level last seen in June 2022, now, throughout the life of this government. We've got government debt larger—gross government debt was $935 billion at the time of the Economic Reform Roundtable last year. It's now $985 billion. And we've got weaker economic growth weaker. We've got, in the one year since the summit that was meant to kickstart the Australian economy, get productivity moving again, we've got worse productivity. We've got higher inflation. We've got slower growth. We've got larger debt, and we've got real wages falling and declining. That is some scorecard.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I did seize upon one particular mention that was made there by the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, in his concluding press conference where he talked about some of the easy wins or the quick wins, as he described it. One of those was to 'reduce complexity and red tape in the National Construction Code'. He said:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">… we've asked Clare—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">that's the housing minister, Clare O'Neil—</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">to do that work relatively swiftly.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">One year later, we just had Senator Sheldon say the Construction Code shouldn't be touched and needs to remain north of 2,000 pages. Apparently, the housing minister was instructed, tasked, at the national Economic Reform Roundtable one year ago, to simplify the National Construction Code. Nothing has happened. As my colleague Senator Hume said earlier, one of the results of that is that housing has become more expensive to build and that rents are going up.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>This isn't a scare campaign. This isn't fanciful. In my own city of Sydney, rents have already gone up by $50 a week, or 6.3 per cent, since the budget was announced. The last time that negative gearing was removed for investment properties by a Labor government in the mid-1980s we saw house rental prices in Sydney go up by 43 per cent over a 27-month period. It was so bad the government had to reverse those changes. The government has changed course on its widows tax. It should change course on some of these other changes in the budget. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>64</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen Barbara</name>
              <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="BFQ" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:24</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Industry and Innovation (Senator Ayres) to a question without notice I asked today relating to renters.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I asked Minister Ayres what he would say to Lou, a 69-year-old nurse who has worked in the profession as a registered nurse for 52 years and is now living in a very precarious rental circumstance. I listened to Minister Ayres's response very carefully. It was a mixture of personal attack, party politics and reference to the HAFF. There was no mention of renters in Senator Ayres's answer, of any significance. He did not take it seriously. He did not offer any comfort or practical response to the circumstances of Lou, a nurse who has given decades of her life to our health system and who found herself, as she left her marriage—a violent marriage—with nothing, and slept in her car and lived in caravans, and had to move further away from her family—as I said in my question—and give more and more of her income to rentals, living in acute rental stress.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Lou is not alone; a third of Australians are in such a circumstance right now. She suffered from financial abuse which left her with nothing. Even when she secured affordable housing in Wollongong, a very long way from her family in Sydney, she had to work six days a week to afford rent that took up 65 per cent of her income. Even that rental accommodation remains uncertain if she faces an increase in rent ahead. Lou said governments on both sides of this parliament have failed her. She has worked, as I said, her entire life—a union member—without a secure and affordable home owned or rented.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We also heard this morning, from the ACTU delegation, from Maddie, a teacher from my home state of South Australia. She loves being a teacher but can't live anywhere affordable, as a renter, that is close to her work. Like so many Australian workers, she has very long commutes, very poor living conditions in her rental and feels unsafe. She says her mental health and her general health have been affected. Everything is harder when your housing is uncertain and substandard.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Lou and Maddie are workers with good jobs—teaching and nursing. They're union members. I thank them for coming to the parliament with the ACTU today, with their ideas about what needs to change. But they must be very disappointed with what they heard today from the minister, who did not pay respectful attention to the nature of the crisis that they face as individual women and that so many Australians face alongside them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This government's policies are not touching the sides of a massive housing crisis. I have listened carefully to answers time over time in this place. The government is doing way too little in view of the 190,000 people currently on our waitlists and the 640,000 Australians living in acute housing stress. The HAFF will build 40,000 homes; that is six per cent of the people who are living in such dire circumstances. And there is nothing for renters in what the government is offering—not a single policy at the last election for renters, nothing in the budget for renters or people experiencing homelessness. The Labor Party promised to tackle Australia's housing crisis. But, after four years in government, people are struggling more than ever and 70 per cent of renters are in deep financial stress. That is a lot of Australians, and they are living with their families in acute anxiety.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Liberals are no better. Just a week ago, as we heard from Senator Sheldon, Senator Bragg told lower-income earners that they need to accept substandard housing under a Liberal government. He since walked it back after getting scolded by his party, but we all know what his so-called solutions to the housing crisis will mean—worse living standards and more anxiety for renters. Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson told shivering Australians, as Senator Sheldon said, to 'just put on a jumper'. How out of touch can you be?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Greens believe no-one should live in this very wealthy country we're in without secure housing that supports their health and wellbeing. Most importantly, we need to see caps on rents, after a year of extreme rental rises. We really need to see renters supported by caps on greedy landlords so they can put a life together. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>65</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:30</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister representing the Minister for Northern Australia (Senator Farrell) to a question without notice I asked today relating to the great Australian infrastructure project, GAIN.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Despite me providing the minister with not only a notice of my question last Thursday but also the actual question, he was unable to provide an update on the progress of the project. I was not asking for the project to be approved. I was merely asking for the minister to commit to ensuring the project was advanced expeditiously. Despite the minister saying advance notice gave him time to determine the status of the project, he clearly had not done so.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I'm stunned. Infrastructure should be bipartisan. One Nation is not trying to take credit for the 12 projects we're working on with proponents. They're not our projects; they're Australia's projects. History will not remember the politics of the project; it will remember which government built it. To the Prime Minister I say: take the win, advance the project, grow Australia's productive capacity and deliver wealth and opportunity to all Australians—those who were here first and those who have come since.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These projects do not require any significant taxpayer investment. International merchant banks have seen through the net zero scam and are now desperate to finance actual, proper productive infrastructure. Australia is a prime destination for international capital, which has realised successive Liberal and Labor governments have neglected infrastructure for so long. There is a plethora of opportunities here.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">While the financing is available for construction, it's not available for business cases. There's a simple reason for that: international capital does not trust the Australian government any longer. After fiascos like Inland Rail, Snowy Hydro 2.0 and the Adani mine, who would trust us? Proponents want to see government skin in the game before committing their own money. This may be as little as millions for middle-stage development. All of these projects have already had private funding for early-stage development.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Australia is bringing in so many people our GDP is being sliced into smaller and smaller slices, and the public are feeling it. Any responsible government has a duty to grow the pie and increase GDP to maintain our standard of living. The way to do that is roads, rail, port, pipelines and internet backbones. It includes tertiary processing of Australian minerals, coal and iron ore into steel for domestic use and export, taking advantage of our resources to undercut foreign steel and create breadwinner jobs—union jobs. I look forward to Minister Farrell updating himself on this project before we return in September. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Avian Influenza</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Avian Influenza</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>65</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:32</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for the Environment and Water (Senator Watt) to a question without notice I asked today relating to our preparedness for H5 bird flu and the doom list for Australian animals.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government knows that Australians care about the incredible biodiversity we share this continent with, and they've made all sorts of promises, like 30 by 30 and no new extinctions. The thing they won't do is cough up the cash to make that a reality. It is a great tragedy, as a country, how little we spend on conservation in this country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have many in the party that calls themselves conservative that don't actually seem to want to conserve this great continent, and I find that really hard to take. Then you have a Labor government who says they're doing all the right things and then are spending 6c out of every $100 in the budget on biodiversity conservation in this country. That's one buck for every $1,667. How is that the case, given what we're seeing in nature and given what is at stake?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We seem to try and convince ourselves that we somehow live outside of nature. We are wholly reliant on nature for our survival. Physically, emotionally and, I'd argue, spiritually we have a connection with nature, and we will be damned to our future generations if we don't actually get this right and step up. We've seen multibillion-dollar bailouts for smelters, and you could argue that there's good merit in that. Where's the bailout for nature? Why does nature have to rely on the crumbs from the government? I'll certainly be listening to the Biodiversity Council before I listen to the Labor government about what they're spending on biodiversity conservation in this country. We're not spending enough, and, year on year, we're going backwards. It's very generous to extend a fund for a couple of years, but then it falls off a cliff. We've got to get serious about conservation in this country. I think this bird flu is a total wake-up call for our country. We're in for a rough ride. I think we stand to lose a huge amount, and there's going to be a lot of grief across this country as we start to lose the incredible wildlife that we know and love.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Presentation</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-style:italic;">
                </span>
                <span style="font-style:italic;">The document was unavailable at the time of publishing.</span>
              </span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Postponement</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Postponement notifications have been lodged in respect of the following:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 1 (Senator David Pocock), till 7 September 2026.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Business of the Senate notice of motion no. 3 (Senator Bragg), till 20 August 2026.</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">General business notice of motion no. 619 (Senator Hodgins-May), till 20 August 2026.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Reporting Date</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">
                <span style="font-weight:bold;">The Clerk:</span>  Notifications of extensions of time for committees to report have been lodged in respect of the following:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">Procedure Committee—Orders for the production of documents—from 19 August to 14 October 2026</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="74" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Works Joint Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:36</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That, in accordance with the provisions of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Public Works Committee Act 1969</span>, the following proposed work be referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works for consideration and report as expeditiously as is practicable:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Services Australia—Proposed fit-out of leased premises at 10 Macquarie Street, Parramatta, New South Wales.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I table statements in relation to the works.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:36</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That, in accordance with the provisions of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Public Works Committee Act 1969</span>, the following proposed work be referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works for consideration and report as expeditiously as is practicable:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts—Norfolk Island multi-purpose service facility—Stage 1 residential aged care replacement project.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I table statements in relation to the works.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Relations: Australia and China</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">International Relations: Australia and China</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>66</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:37</span>):  At the request of Senator Paterson, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Prime Minister, by no later than 5 pm on Friday, 4 September 2026, the briefing note on Australia's relationship with the People's Republic of China provided to the Prime Minister by the former Prime Minister, the Honourable Paul Keating, as referenced in the article 'Inside Keating's private push to steer Albanese on China and Trump' by James Curran, published on 16 August 2026 by Politico.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Amendment (Disqualified Officers) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1510" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Amendment (Disqualified Officers) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>67</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="&#xA;    font-size:9.5pt;&#xA;  ">
                    </span>
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:37</span>):  At the request of Senator Hume, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following bill be introduced:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A Bill for an Act to amend the law relating to workplace relations and for related purposes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KOVACIC:</span>
                    </a>  I present the bill and move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>67</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                  <name.id>306168</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>67</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:38</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KOVACIC:</span>
                    </a>  I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Thank you, President.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>I rise to introduce the <span style="font-style:italic;">Fair Work Amendment (Disqualified Officers) Bill 2026.</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In 2024, the CFMEU was rightfully placed into administration. The level of corruption and crime that infiltrated the construction sector around Australia, and particularly in my home state of Victoria, became too evident to ignore any longer. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under the current scheme, the administrator can take disciplinary action. He can expel members and he can disqualify officers. But he cannot do either for longer than five years, no matter how bad the behaviour or the offences committed. A member expelled today can apply to re-join the union in just five years' time. That is the limit, and it applies no matter their offences. This is a provision that, to me, seems unjust in every way. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In practice, this gives some of the most well-known and worst documented characters in the CFMEU a path back into the ranks of the union, and it opens the moment that five year expiry kicks in. This is highly problematic, and deserving of reform today. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Do not take my word for it that five years is not enough. Take the administrator's.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">On 30 July, on the ABC's<span style="font-style:italic;"> 7.30</span>, Michael Crosby AM was asked why he was suspending John Setka's membership for only five years. His answer was that the rules limit him to a maximum of five years. In his words, "That's as much as I can do."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Pressed on the need for reform, Mr Crosby did not rule it out.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is the administrator this Parliament appointed, on national television, describing the limits of his own powers. He is not asking for a free hand. He is telling us that where he judges conduct to warrant expulsion of more than five years, the law doesn't allow him to exercise that judgement. The Government may disagree with me about a great many things in this debate. It cannot disagree with its own administrator that he is working with one hand tied behind his back, a limit on his powers. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Those opposite will try to argue these powers are sufficient. But I want to put on record the extent of the bad behaviour that this administration is dealing with, the importance of which has only become more evident by the day. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">John Setka ran the Victorian branch of the CFMEU for twelve years. His record is not a matter of rumour or partisan invention. It is a matter of public record.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In 2019, he pleaded guilty to harassing a woman by phone. In the same year, after reported comments disparaging the advocacy of Rosie Batty, his conduct became so indefensible that Anthony Albanese himself moved to expel him from the Labor Party. The Prime Minister couldn't stomach him. The law of this country still guarantees him a way back into the union movement. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under his leadership, the Victorian branch of the CFMEU handed paid delegate and safety roles to members of outlaw motorcycle gangs and figures from organised crime. And when the Nine papers and 60 Minutes were about to put the evidence to him in July 2024, he would not answer the questions. Instead, he resigned, and expressed the hope that his departure would end the scrutiny of his union. It did not, because the scrutiny was well deserved.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Let me put on the record what accountability looks like when it is applied to this union.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The former administrator, Mark Irving KC, asked a straightforward question. He asked for information about how members' money had been spent. This is the reply he received, as set out in the Watson report. I warn the chamber that the language is confronting.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">"Go f--- yourself, Irving."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">"You f-----g dogs have endangered my life with all your leaks to the media, and I will come into the office whenever I want. I'm not an ALP stooge like you two c---s."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">"One more leak you dogs and I'll fix it myself."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is what a request for basic financial transparency to members produced. Not an answer. Abuse, and a threat.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">And it did not stop there.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In November 2025, John Setka was arrested and charged over emails police allege he sent to a union administrator, following a notice to produce.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">In February this year, he was arrested again. Charged over further messages to the administration, including one police say was sent on Christmas Day, and charged with committing an indictable offence while on bail.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">On 14 August, he was arrested for a third time. Charged over social media posts featuring images of the former administrator Mark Irving and the assistant administrator Matt McGowan. A court bailed him on the condition that he stop posting intimidating or vulgar material about the people overseeing this union.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Three arrests. Three sets of charges. Every one of them arising, on the allegations before the courts, from correspondence aimed at the people this Parliament put in place to clean up the CFMEU.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is the environment the administrator is working in. And this Parliament tells him the most he can do is five years.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is just a glimpse into the record of John Setka, and the type of person he is.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That is the man the administrator examined when he imposed the toughest sanction available to him. And that is the man to whom the current law guarantees a return date. Five years, and the door must be opened to him again. Not because anyone reasonable thinks it should be, but because the statute says so. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">But this Bill is not about one man. Setka is the example everyone knows. But he is not the only one. Let me turn more generally to the suite of allegations raised recently.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Queensland Commission of Inquiry into the CFMEU and Misconduct in the Construction Industry has received even more confronting evidence about the CFMEU. This includes evidence that the union maintained a "hitlist" of workplace inspectors it sought to force out of the state regulator, Workplace Health and Safety Queensland, and evidence of bullying and intimidation so severe that one executive suffered a breakdown and attempted to take his own life.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Nine papers led by Nick McKenzie have also extensively reported about the conduct of CFMEU members and officials on <span style="font-style:italic;">Big Build</span> sites. These include paid delegate and safety representative roles handed to members of outlaw motorcycle gangs, instances of women being physically abused and intimidated while the CFMEU protected men on government sites, and even Big Build operations being turned into drug distribution hubs for outlaw motorcycle gangs, with subcontractors continuing to pay underworld figures for access as recently as 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Knowing this information, it is concerning that the Administrator's disciplinary powers remain subject to an arbitrary five-year limit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This Bill before us today removes the five-year statutory limit, giving the Administrator the option to impose any longer or indefinite period where warranted. This should not even have had to happen. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Individuals with behaviour so unacceptable should not be allowed to walk back into the union movement with open arms. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also includes an amendment to the Act to clarify that a person is a "removed person" if they are "disqualified" under the Scheme. This avoids any doubt and makes clear our policy. I would assume all of this Chamber would agree that persons disqualified under the Scheme should not be permitted to hold positions within registered organisations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also amends the Determination itself to remove the words "so long as the period is not greater than a period of 5 years". </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill also includes a transitional provision allowing the Administrator to amend a disqualification decision made before commencement where the Administrator would have imposed a longer period had the five-year statutory limit not applied. This ensures that persons who have already been subject to the maximum available sanction are not advantaged merely because their disciplinary decision was made before commencement of this Bill's amendments.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We can fix this today. We can get it done.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The objective of this Bill should attract support from all sides of this chamber.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I commend the Bill to the Senate. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator KOVACIC:</span>
                    </a>  I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>67</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                  <name.id>306168</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>68</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                  <name.id>306168</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:39</span>):  At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Housing, by no later than midday on Friday, 21 August 2026, a list setting out the number of recipients of the Australian Government 5% Deposit Scheme since 1 October 2025, broken down by federal electorate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workforce Australia</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Workforce Australia</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:39</span>):  At the request of Senator Hume, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that the response to order for the production of documents no. 540, tabled on 11 August 2026 (the minister's reference MB26-000390), withholds three documents in their entirety, identified in the response as Document 3 (pages 11 to 23), Document 5 (pages 28 to 29) and Document 6 (pages 30 to 32), and redacts others, in reliance on exemptions under the <span style="font-style:italic;">Freedom of Information Act 1982</span>, which the Senate has never accepted as grounds for refusing to produce documents to the Senate;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claim to the extent that it relies on prejudice to the department's deliberative processes and on assertions concerning the deliberations and decisions of Cabinet that do not identify the documents or parts of documents to which they apply; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, by no later than 9 am on Thursday, 20 August 2026, to fully comply with order no. 540, including production of complete copies of Documents 3, 5 and 6 as identified in the response.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel Security</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fuel Security</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:40</span>):  At the request of Senator Sharma, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Prime Minister, by no later than 5 pm on 4 September 2026, the diary of the Fuel Supply Taskforce Coordinator, for the period from 23 March to 10 August 2026, to the extent it contains information relating to meetings, briefings, roundtables and any similar events held with government or external entities.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Amendment (Transparency and Reporting) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1513" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing Australia Amendment (Transparency and Reporting) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">First Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
                <name.id>256063</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256063" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRAGG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following bill be introduced:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A Bill for an Act to amend the <span style="font-style:italic;">Housing Australia Act 2018</span>, and for related purposes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256063" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRAGG:</span>
                    </a>  I present the bill and move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Bill read a first time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>69</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
                  <name.id>256063</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Second Reading</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>69</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
                <name.id>256063</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256063" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BRAGG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:41</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256063" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRAGG:</span>
                    </a>  I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The speech read as follows—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">President, I rise today to introduce the Housing Australia Amendment (Transparency and Reporting) Bill 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Labor Government has delivered a trifecta of failure on housing: fewer homes, higher rents, and confidence in the market smashed. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Labor has committed to over $80 billion in housing spending, but has built fewer houses than under the Coalition. Labor has also put in place $77 billion in higher taxes in their 2026-27 Budget, which, by design, delivers 35,000 fewer houses. Labor has further instituted a ban on Self-Managed Super Funds on borrowing to invest in housing, which will affect at least 4,000 transactions each year—or 40,000 over the next year. Industry says it's far higher than this with at least 16,000 transactions affected. Combined, this effort to cut supply undoes all of the 40,000 houses that are meant to be built by the Housing Australia Future Fund. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This bill addresses one of the many failures in the Government's housing policy: the complete absence of transparency, financial scrutiny, and accountability regarding how billions of dollars of taxpayers' money are being spent by Housing Australia and through its subsidiary programs including Housing Australia Future Fund (HAFF).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Since Labor came to power in mid-2022, Australia's population has increased by some 1.8 million, of which around 1.5 million has been through net overseas migration (NOM). But during the same period, the dwelling stock has increased by only 550,000. This has created a shortfall of some 130,000 dwellings, which are needed to house at least 350,000 and up to 400,000 persons. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">To date, Labor is 112,000 homes behind their own 1.2 million housing target. Their own government modelling suggests they will miss the target by well over 200,000 dwellings. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under the former Coalition Government, Australia was completing close to 200,000 homes each year. Under Labor, that has crashed to 170,000. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Under Labor the population has grown but housing supply has collapsed. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Labor has created massive housing bureaucracy instead of building houses. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Housing Australia is the agency entrusted with overseeing the $80 billion commitment. Housing Australia manages the Government's housing gimmicks including: the 5% home deposit scheme (formally known as the First Home Guarantee scheme), Help to Buy and the Housing Australia Future Fund.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">It is difficult to know what Housing Australia is doing, if anything. Greater transparency is urgently needed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">For years, the Australian people have been promised that billions in public funds would solve the nation's housing crisis, build tens of thousands of new homes, and restore the dream of home ownership. Instead, what Australians have received is an opaque bureaucratic labyrinth, a wall of secrecy, and a masterclass in government waste.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I have relentlessly pursued answers through Senate Estimates, orders for production of documents, Freedom of Information requests, and formal requests to the Auditor-General. For too long, Labor has stonewalled questions regarding how Housing Australia operates, who receives funding under the HAFF, and how many genuine new homes have actually been constructed. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">After two years of operation and more than $11.5 billion of taxpayer funds, the HAFF has delivered very little new housing. It's actually hard to tell what they have done. For years, Labor has blocked questions about what the HAFF actually does and how many homes have been built or bought with financial assistance from Housing Australia. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Auditor-General provided the first glimpse into how that HAFF has failed to deliver. The Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) report on the <span style="font-style:italic;">Treasury's Design and Delivery of the Housing Australia Future Fund and the National Housing Accord Facility</span>, confirmed what we on this side of the chamber have warned for years that "there has been insufficient transparency on program delivery, costs and impact" within Labor's housing fund. Internal Treasury advice repeatedly warned that the government's headline targets were "unlikely to be met" and rated as "high risk."</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">When the HAFF was established, the government promised it would deliver 40,000 social and affordable homes over five years. Yet after almost three years of operation, the ANAO revealed that a paltry 1,432 homes have been delivered. Even more damning is the fact that nearly half of those, 670 homes, were not newly constructed buildings at all, but existing dwellings purchased.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Buying existing houses is not building new houses. Purchasing existing homes does not add a single new brick to Australia's housing supply. In fact, when a government agency enters the open market with taxpayer funds to buy up existing houses, it actively competes with everyday Australians, pushing home ownership further out of reach for young families and first home buyers. This "buying, not building" sleight of hand is a complete betrayal of the Australian public. It contradicts evidence previously provided to Senate committees and proves that Housing Australia's flagship program is failing on supply.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">When they actually try to build houses, they spend up to $1.2 million to build a single new dwelling, when the average cost of building a new house in Australia is closer to $500,000. Why should the taxpayer pay more than double for Labor's houses?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Furthermore, before a single new home was completed, Housing Australia managed to spend millions of dollars on its own administrative expenses, bureaucrats, and external consultants. It has been a classic case of filling the trough for bureaucracy while first home buyers are left out in the cold.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Housing Australia has been more distracted with its internal dysfunction and chaos than with building houses. With a staff turnover of over 25 per cent in twelve months to August 2025, and four Work Health and Safety cases—it is clear that there are serious cultural and organisational issues plaguing the agency.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We have received through the Senate process the most recent staff surveys conducted in Housing Australia; which show 40% of employees are unfavourable towards the statement "I rarely think about looking for another job", with only 31% of employees being favourable towards the statement. When it is clear that someone is not delivering in their role, we do something about it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We should talk about what is holding back supply, what Parliament is doing on accountability, and how our housing agenda is shaping up. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">If taxpayers are expected to underwrite Housing Australia's balance sheet, its loan guarantees, and its multibillion-dollar disbursements, Parliament and the Australian public are entitled to complete financial transparency.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Housing Australia Amendment (Transparency and Reporting) Bill 2026 establishes a strict, statutory quarterly reporting framework under a new section 10A of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Housing Australia Act 2018</span> to bring this agency out of the shadows.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">First, the bill inserts a mandatory quarterly reporting function into Housing Australia's core statutory responsibilities. Housing Australia will be legally required to prepare and submit a detailed report to the Minister as soon as practicable after the end of each quarter. To ensure parliamentary oversight, the Minister must table a copy of each report in both Houses of Parliament within 7 sitting days of receiving it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill is intended to strengthen parliamentary and public oversight of Housing Australia and ensure timely reporting on the use of public funds and the delivery of housing programs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill mandates line-item transparency on expenditure. Each quarterly report must explicitly detail total spending across all Housing Australia functions, including activities established under the Investment Mandate, expenditure relating to the Help to Buy program, capacity building functions, administrative costs, and every single dollar spent on external consultants.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill will require Housing Australia to report the total amount spent across every individual program and measure; including the total number of projects that have received financial assistance from Housing Australia, broken down by each of the activities established. This will provide transparency as to how many homes have been bought off the market.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill will provide transparency on all guarantees issued by Housing Australia. Reports must state the total number of guarantees issued, broken down by individual guarantee stream and categorised by the recipient's income decile, as well as the price per dwelling for houses from Housing Australia. This will show how much taxpayers are liable for this scheme and will show exactly who is benefiting from government-backed guarantees.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill mandates full disclosure regarding the Help to Buy program and project assistance, including the number of Help to Buy arrangements entered into, as well as the associated residential property values and purchase prices for supported projects and associated houses.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The bill requires each quarterly report to include summarised minutes of all meetings of the Housing Australia Board that have taken place during that quarter, to open up the governance and decision-making processes of Housing Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Finally, the bill will explicitly prevent the Minister from issuing directions to Housing Australia regarding its quarterly reporting function. This guarantees that Housing Australia's reporting remains independent, objective, and free from ministerial interference or political spin.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">President, housing affordability is one of the greatest economic challenges facing our nation. But we cannot solve a housing crisis through bureaucratic opacity, financial waste, and statistical tricks. Australian taxpayers deserve full value for every dollar spent, and Parliament deserves complete visibility over Housing Australia's operations.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">This bill delivers the transparency, accountability, and financial scrutiny that Housing Australia desperately lacks. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">I commend the bill to the Senate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256063" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator BRAGG:</span>
                    </a>  I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted; debate adjourned.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>69</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
                  <name.id>256063</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>71</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Bragg, Sen Andrew</name>
                  <name.id>256063</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Taxation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>71</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:42</span>):  At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on 13 May 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 485, relating to the impact of changes to housing taxes on housing supply and rents,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) on 22 June 2026, the Minister representing the Treasurer provided a letter of response to the order, raising public interest immunity claims over some of the documents relating to the order, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the order has only been partially complied with;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claims made by the minister in relation to the unproduced documents, noting that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) it has not been sufficiently established that the documents would reveal the actual deliberations of Cabinet rather than being documents that have been prepared for Cabinet or that merely have a connection to Cabinet, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) potentially misleading the public or restricting the department's ability to provide advice to government has not previously been considered an acceptable ground for a claim of public interest immunity; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) requires the Minister representing the Treasurer to comply with the order by no later than midday on Friday, 21 August 2026.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:43</span>):  I move general business notices of motion Nos 628, 629 and 630 together:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 628</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, by no later than midday on Monday, 7 September 2026, all documents relating to the establishment, operation, participant selection or assessment of the Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 629</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Industry and Innovation, by no later than midday on Monday, 7 September 2026, all documents relating to the establishment, operation, participant selection or assessment of the Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 630</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Finance, by no later than midday on Monday, 7 September 2026, all documents held or transmitted by Export Finance Australia relating to the establishment, operation, participant selection or assessment of the Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Industry, Science and Resources: Freedom of Information</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Department of Industry, Science and Resources: Freedom of Information</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
                <name.id>250026</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>JLN</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:43</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Industry and Innovation, by no later than midday on Thursday, 20 August 2026, the list of 151 records or documents that were identified through the searches conducted by the Department of Industry, Science and Resources in relation to FOI LEX 300572.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Infrastructure: Land Transport</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Infrastructure: Land Transport</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:44</span>):  At the request of Senator McKenzie, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the Senate notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) on Wednesday, 12 August 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 576, relating to land transport infrastructure projects, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to comply by 10 am on Tuesday, 18 August 2026,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the order has not been complied with, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the minister has subsequently advised Senator McKenzie that additional time is required to comply with the order and that the requested documents would be provided to the Senate by Monday, 7 September 2026; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) if the order has not been complied with by the start of proceedings on Monday, 7 September 2026, the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government be required to attend the Senate on Tuesday, 8 September 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">COMMITTEES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postpartum Healthcare Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Postpartum Healthcare Select Committee</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Appointment</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>72</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Smith, Sen Marielle</name>
                <name.id>281603</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281603" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:44</span>):  I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on Postpartum Healthcare, be established to inquire into and report on:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) best practice approaches to postpartum healthcare, including the delivery of physical and mental health support and services for mothers and their partners including those who have experienced infant loss;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) women's experiences in the postpartum period, including the physical, psychological, emotional and economic impacts of birth;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) best practice pregnancy and postpartum care models to support long-term maternal physical and mental health;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the cost and accessibility of postpartum healthcare, including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) infant feeding supports,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) mental health supports and services,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) physiotherapy services, including pelvic health services, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) related allied health services;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) antenatal and postpartum reproductive health support and education, including contraceptive care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) research, education and training on pregnancy and postpartum care for healthcare professionals working in maternal care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) existing Commonwealth, state and territory government policies, programs and healthcare initiatives addressing postpartum care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) data collection, reporting and monitoring processes and allocation of research efforts; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) any related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) That the committee present its final report by 18 August 2027.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) That the committee consist of 6 senators, as follows:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) three nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) two nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) one nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) That:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate or any minority party or independent senator;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) participating members may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee, and have all the rights of members of the committee, but may not vote on any questions before the committee;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) a participating member shall be taken to be a member of a committee for the purpose of forming a quorum of the committee if a majority of members of the committee is not present; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) if a member of the committee is unable to attend a meeting of the committee, that member may in writing to the chair appoint a participating member to act as a substitute member of the committee at that meeting; if the member is incapacitated or unavailable, a letter to the chair appointing a participating member to act as a substitute member of the committee may be signed on behalf of the member by the leader of the party or group on whose nomination the member was appointed to the committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) That the committee may proceed to the dispatch of business notwithstanding that all members have not been duly nominated and appointed and notwithstanding any vacancy.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) That the committee elect as chair a member nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate and, as deputy chair, a member nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) That the deputy chair shall act as chair when the chair is absent from a meeting of the committee or the position of chair is temporarily vacant.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(8) That the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, may appoint another member of the committee to act as chair during the temporary absence of both the chair and deputy chair at a meeting of the committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(9) That, in the event of an equally divided vote, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(10) That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of 3 or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters which the committee is empowered to consider.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(11) That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(12) That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(13) That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such papers and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such proceedings as take place in public.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>74</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:45</span>):  by leave—At the request of Senator Waters, I move an amendment to the motion that has been circulated in the chamber:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on <span style="font-weight:bold;">Women's Health</span>, be established to inquire into and report on:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) best practice approaches to postpartum healthcare, including the delivery of physical and mental health support and services for mothers and their partners including those who have experienced infant loss;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) women's experiences in the postpartum period, including the physical, psychological, emotional and economic impacts of birth;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) best practice pregnancy and postpartum care models to support long-term maternal physical and mental health;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) the cost and accessibility of postpartum healthcare, including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) infant feeding supports,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) mental health supports and services,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) physiotherapy services, including pelvic health services, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iv) related allied health services;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) antenatal and postpartum reproductive health support and education, including contraceptive care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) research, education and training on pregnancy and postpartum care for healthcare professionals working in maternal care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) existing Commonwealth, state and territory government policies, programs and healthcare initiatives addressing postpartum care;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) data collection, reporting and monitoring processes and allocation of research efforts <span style="font-weight:bold;">relating to postpartum healthcare</span>; </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(i) <span style="font-weight:bold;">the ways in which women and girls experience recurrent, severe, or long-lasting pain conditions;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(j) <span style="font-weight:bold;">women's experience in seeking appropriate healthcare responses to pain, including experiences of medical misogyny;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(k) <span style="font-weight:bold;">barriers to effective pain management, including the range and affordability of available treatments;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(l) <span style="font-weight:bold;">best practice approaches to assisted reproduction treatments;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(m) <span style="font-weight:bold;">access and affordability issues relating to fertility and assisted reproduction treatments;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(n) <span style="font-weight:bold;">the regulation of medical devices used in women's healthcare treatments, including risk assessments, monitoring and reporting;</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>(o) <span style="font-weight:bold;">the role of relevant regulators and other agencies in responding to complaints regarding medical devices; and</span></span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(p) any related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">As listed on pages 5 to 7 of today's Notice Paper</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is the amendment as moved by Senator McKim, standing in the name of Senator Waters, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Original question, as amended, agreed to.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>74</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics References Committee</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="40" type="Committee">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Economics References Committee</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Reference</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>74</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Bell, Sen Sean</name>
                <name.id>319142</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ON</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="319142" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator BELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">One Nation Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:45</span>):  At the request of Senator Hanson, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the following matter be referred to the Economics References Committee for inquiry and report by 23 November 2026: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The issue of skyrocketing grocery prices, with particular reference to:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the overall increase in grocery prices over the last 25 years, with and without substitution;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) fuel vulnerability and price impacts on inputs and transport from the shutdown of domestic refineries;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) international fertiliser price spikes and domestic fertiliser production capacity;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) increased regulatory burden and costs to farmers from red, green and blue tape;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) the long-term increase of power prices under the last 25 years of net-zero policies;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) the proportion of Australian agricultural farmland controlled by foreign corporations, family-owned ventures and cooperatives;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) the amount of money extracted overseas by farmland owning foreign corporations;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) the challenges faced by farming cooperatives in the modern market;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) market abuse by supermarkets;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(j) the increased cost that climate reporting and general regulatory compliance is placing on farmers;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(k) the amount of agricultural land required to be given up for carbon sequestration and the impact on national food and fibre production; and </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(l) any other related matters.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that business of the Senate No. 2, standing in the name of Senator Hanson, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>75</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:50]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">DOCUMENTS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Prime Minister</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>75</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:53</span>):  At the request of Senator Paterson, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That the Senate—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) order for the production of documents no. 586, agreed to by the Senate on 13 August 2026, concerning correspondence from the Government of Japan and related matters, has not been complied with,</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister stated in his response, dated 17 August 2026, that a matter has been referred to the Australian Federal Police, and as a result, it would be inappropriate to respond to the order at this time, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(iii) the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister has not specified the harm to the public interest that could result from disclosure of the requested documents;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) rejects the grounds that the minister has provided for refusing to comply with the order; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) requires the Minister representing the Prime Minister to comply with the order by no later than midday on Thursday, 20 August 2026, or specify the grounds on which the minister believes disclosure of the requested documents is not in the public interest.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>76</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:53</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-DivisionResult">
                    </span>
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                    </a>  As Minister Wong and the Prime Minister have made clear, it is inappropriate for the opposition to seek to score political points on Australia's relationship with Japan. The Prime Minister of Japan is a friend of Australia and a friend of the Australian Prime Minister, and the relationship with Japan is closer than it has ever been. The government has responded to the order, indicating, as this motion says, that the matter has been referred to the AFP, and, as a result, it would be inappropriate to respond to the order. This remains the government's position, and we oppose the motion.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion 624 standing in the name of Senator Paterson be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>76</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>76</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                  <name.id>ING</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>76</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:55]<br />(The President—Senator Lines.) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods Administration</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods Administration</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Order for the Production of Documents</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Kovacic, Sen Maria</name>
                <name.id>306168</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="306168" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator KOVACIC</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:57</span>):  At the request of Senator Antic, I move:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, by no later than midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026, all documents relating to the current evaluation of mFLUSIVA by the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA), including documents in draft, interim or preliminary form and documents generated or received to date and including the following:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the application dossier and all TGA evaluation reports and assessments, including drafts, preliminary, interim and first-round reports, relating to clinical, nonclinical, quality/manufacturing, statistical and pharmacovigilance matters;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) all documents assessing or discussing safety, efficacy and the benefit-risk profile of mFLUSIVA, including known or potential risks, safety signals, uncertainties, missing information, data gaps, Risk Management Plans (RMPs), risk-minimisation measures and proposed pharmacovigilance or post-market requirements;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) any post-market safety documentation, PSURs/PBRERs, signal assessments and RMP updates;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) all questions, requests for information or clarification, including notices pursuant to section 31 of the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989, together with sponsor responses, supplementary information and correspondence between the TGA, sponsor, evaluators or other parties concerning the evaluation of mFLUSIVA;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) all draft or completed Delegate's Overviews, briefing papers, internal reviews, recommendations, meeting records and expert advice, including material prepared for or received from the Advisory Committee on Medicines or other expert advisers; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) all documents prepared to date concerning proposed approval, rejection, indications, conditions of registration, Product Information, RMP requirements or other regulatory outcomes, including draft recommendations, proposed decisions and any draft AusPAR or decision summary.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>77</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                <name.id>ING</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GALLAGHER</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Minister for Finance, Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Women, Minister for Government Services and Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">15:58</span>):  I seek leave to make a short statement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  Leave is granted for one minute.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ING" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator GALLAGHER:</span>
                    </a>  The government will not be supporting this motion. We have well-established regulatory frameworks and robust mechanisms governing the development, manufacture, marketing and supply of therapeutic goods. These processes put public health front and centre whilst also balancing transparency with the need to protect commercially sensitive and confidential information. Requiring the publication of these documents would cut across that established framework and could create an adverse precedent that may discourage industry from bringing medicines to the Australian market. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that general business notice of motion 625, standing in the name of Senator Antic, be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>77</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>77</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Gallagher, Sen Katy</name>
                  <name.id>ING</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>77</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:59]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">NOTICES</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Presentation</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>78</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
              <name.id>I0U</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:02</span>):  by leave—I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Communications, by no later than Friday 21 August at 10am:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">a) any documents, notes, briefings and correspondence from the Department to the Minister for Communications and their office, and the Prime Minister and their office, relating to the Government's proposed AdStop register;</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">b) all correspondence from the Department showing any evidence that AdStop would work; and</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">c) all correspondence from the Department showing how AdStop will function.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">MATTERS OF URGENCY</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>78</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Sterle, Sen Glenn (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>e68</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="e68" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator Sterle</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">16:03</span>):  Senator Cash has submitted a proposal, under standing order 75, today, which has been circulated and is shown on the Dynamic Red:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The serious failure of judgement demonstrated by the Minister for Veterans' Affairs in initially declining to meet veterans and bereaved family members who came to Parliament House to raise urgent concerns about their health care, and the question of whether the minister retains the confidence of the veteran community he is entrusted to serve.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Is consideration of the proposal supported?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>78</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>78</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cash, Sen Michaelia</name>
              <name.id>I0M</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="I0M" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CASH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Leader of the Opposition in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:03</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The serious failure of judgement demonstrated by the Minister for Veterans' Affairs in initially declining to meet veterans and bereaved family members who came to Parliament House to raise urgent concerns about their health care, and the question of whether the minister retains the confidence of the veteran community he is entrusted to serve.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister Keogh has sadly lost the confidence of the veterans he is supposed to support and champion on a daily basis. In their own words—this is an indictment on any minister—he has lost their trust. He has lost their respect. On that basis alone, it is no longer tenable that Minister Keogh hold the position of Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister for Defence Personnel. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Our veterans are the Australians who put on the uniform, and they put it on proudly. They are the people who serve this country. They are the people who are prepared to put themselves in harm's way so that they can defend the freedoms that each and every one of us has on a daily basis. They should never have to fight their own government and, in particular, their own minister simply to be heard. Yet, under Minister Keogh, that is exactly what they are being forced to do. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Sadly for Minister Keogh, this is not one bad meeting, as he would like Australians to believe it was. It's not one mistake. It is now an established pattern of behaviour: make a decision detrimental to veterans and ignore the veterans' pleas. They fall on deaf ears. Then the outrage happens. The Australian public and the veterans stand up. They stand up to the Prime Minister and to Minister Keogh, and then they retreat.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This week has been an utter disgrace in this portfolio. Veterans came to Parliament House in good faith, deeply concerned about Labor's $5,000 allied health threshold and what it could mean for them and veterans with serious health complaints and complex health needs. We heard of suicides that have now occurred because of the stress that these veterans are under. What does the minister, who is meant to be championing them every single day, do? He refuses to meet with them. That is just sick, quite frankly. What Minister for Veterans' Affairs refuses to meet with veterans who come here to plead with this government, 'Please don't take any further action that is going to be detrimental to our health'? He refuses to meet with them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Only after he is actually called out by the former deputy prime minister Michael McCormack and publicly shamed does he agree to sit down with them. My God, the reports now coming out of that meeting from the veterans who attended—he walked in without shaking their hands. He sat with his arms crossed. He rolled his eyes at the people who had served our country, who were being detrimentally impacted by so many now of Labor's changes. And then he says to them he's missing an appointment with the Governor-General. What, an appointment to go and have drinks? You've got to be kidding me. He now says he got it wrong. Guess what, Minister Keogh? Shame on you. Yes, you did, but this is the problem now: what's come out of the meeting?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is what the veterans are saying. Former RAAF pilot and GP Dr Tim Nelson said that the meeting 'confirmed for us that lack of trust'. Donna Manton, a defence veteran, an advocate and a long-time Labor supporter, says she is heartsick to be calling out this government and this minister for not caring for veterans. Former Royal Australian Navy diver John Armfield said, 'I enlisted under the Navy values of courage, honour, honesty and loyalty, and yet you, Minister Keogh, have failed to display any of these values.' That is the veterans talking.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">What we now have with this minister is a pattern of behaviour. Remember when he made—and this is probably one of the sickest decisions a government has ever made under a minister—the decision to remove the very small amount of funding that former prime minister Tony Abbott had given to the parents of Corporal Cameron Baird, a Victoria Cross recipient who lost his life—a few grand a year to travel around this country and raise the case for our veterans, and that minister cancelled it. What type of a sick minister does that? This minister has lost the respect of the veterans. We've lost respect for him, and, quite frankly, he needs to go.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>79</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Grogan, Sen Karen</name>
              <name.id>296331</name.id>
              <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="296331" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GROGAN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Government Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:08</span>):  Before I start, let's just be really clear. Every single veteran and every single serving member and every bereaved family member who comes to this parliament deserves to be treated with respect and deserves to be heard. Above all, they deserve a government that will invest. They deserve a government that puts actions behind the words. It's all very well to have a lot of words and a lot of hot air, but it's the actions that are going to significantly impact their lives as well.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I will say that Minister Keogh has said that he made an incorrect call in not meeting with those veterans, and he has put his apologies forward, and I'm not going to go into that. But what I am going to go into is the fact that, when we came to office, the Department of Veterans' Affairs had been underfunded and underresourced for years and years.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Almost 42,000 new claims were sitting in a backlog when we came to government. That's 42,000 veterans who were languishing with no care or respect by those opposite when they were in government. Forty-two thousand—just let that sink in for a minute. Those people were ignored and neglected by those opposite. The government, our government, the Albanese Labor government, funded additional departmental staff and cleared that inherited backlog, but it has taken time. We couldn't get through that in no time at all. We couldn't look at such neglect from those opposite to our veterans. We couldn't get through that in no period of time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have continued to invest. Not only have we invested to clear that backlog, but in looking at the system, it was not working. It was not working for those veterans who have fought for our country, who have stood there in their uniform, prepared to defend the rest of us. We will respect them. We do respect them. And that respect comes with significant action.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There have been a lot of very emotional stories this week about situations of health care, situations of abuse—all sorts of really horrible, horrible situations. The royal commission made a series of recommendations, and those recommendations are the ones that we are rolling out. That royal commission was what gave us the blueprint for what veterans, their families and their communities need. Not only are we processing claims more quickly, not only are we putting forward better health care and compensation to support veterans when they need it, but we're working to fix this system so it's less complex. That work has begun. That work is on foot.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">From 1 July this year, we began implementing the most significant reform that Australia's veterans support system has seen in generations. Just to be clear, we had the royal commission and 1 July brought significant change. We're now seven weeks on from that. We should start to see significant improvements as this system is now rolling out. The new arrangements simplify the compensation system. It makes it easier for veterans and their families to understand their entitlements and access them. It also allows claims to be processed much quicker. These reforms were shaped through consultation with veterans and their families because that's how we do things.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Also on 1 July we opened the new Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency. That is about helping veterans find their way through quite complex systems, and it's a system that we have seen rolled out in South Australia. The Northern Adelaide Veterans' and Families' Wellbeing Hub at Elizabeth Vale is now supporting our community of more than 11,000 veterans and family members. That's on-ground actual assistance helping veterans. It's helping them look to what they need, how to get there and how to have that support at their hand. Support for mental health issues, physical health issues, employment support, access to housing, financial advocacy, transitions assistance—these are all of the things that they desperately need. We are providing them because we respect those veterans and every last one of them deserves our gratitude and our respect. And they have it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>80</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Whitten, Sen Tyron</name>
              <name.id>317026</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="317026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator WHITTEN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:13</span>):  Labor is making veterans fight another battle—the battle to access the care they need. If you listen to the other side, it's all rosy. Why would they be here looking for money if they didn't need it? What is actually disturbing is the way the Minister for Veterans' Affairs has treated those that have served our country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Under the 2026-27 budget, allied health services have been capped at $5,000 a year. For a veteran requiring physiotherapy, rehabilitation, psychological support, specialist appointments and ongoing treatment, $5,000 can disappear very quickly. For veterans in regional and remote Australia, the burden is even greater with travel, accommodation and other costs adding to the expense of the care. But veterans who travelled to Canberra to raise these concerns faced another battle to even be heard by their own minister. Veterans and bereaved family members made the trip because they wanted to explain the real-world impact of these changes. They wanted to propose practical solutions. They wanted their minister to listen. Instead, they say the minister initially declined to meet with them. Outrageous.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When a meeting eventually took place, the veterans who attended have described the minister's conduct as 'deeply disrespectful'. They say he refused to shake their hands, sat with his arms crossed and rolled his eyes as they explained their concerns and put forward possible proposals. They also say the minister complained that the meeting with them meant he was missing an appointment with the Governor-General. Boohoo!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is an extraordinary way to treat Australian veterans. These are people who served our nation—people who put their lives on the line. They're not travelling to Canberra to be dismissed; they travelled to be heard. Instead of showing them respect and compassion, they say they were met with indifference and disrespect. The Minister for Veterans' Affairs has a responsibility to listen to veterans, not make them fight to get through the door. He has a duty of care. He has a responsibility to understand the consequences of a government policy, not dismiss the people living with those consequences. Veterans should never have to beg their own government for dignity. The $5,000 cap is deeply concerning, but so too is the attitude veterans say they encountered when they tried to challenge it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Five thousand dollars is not a measure of what a veteran's health is worth. A veteran's access to care should not depend on how quickly a budget allocation runs out. Those who served our country should never be made to feel like an inconvenience when they ask the minister to listen. We ask our servicemen and women to run towards danger to protect our country. The very least they deserve in return in respect. Our veterans deserve better from this government, they deserve better from this minister, and they deserve to be heard, respected and properly cared for. This isn't good enough.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>80</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">McDonald, Sen Susan</name>
              <name.id>123072</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>LNP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="123072" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McDONALD</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Nationals in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:16</span>):  Our veterans are Australians who put on the uniform, who serve this country and who are prepared to put themselves in harm's way to defend our freedoms and our way of life. Yesterday, on Vietnam Veterans Day, a number of veterans came here to be heard by their government. As a senator based in Townsville, one of the largest veteran communities in the country, I was appalled to hear their stories. This minister has developed a pattern of behaviour that neither he nor veterans nor the Prime Minister should consider acceptable. This is not just one bad meeting. This is not one mistake. This is a pattern of behaviour. He makes the decision, he ignores the veterans, he waits for the outrage, and then he retreats.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This week, we heard from former RAAF pilot and GP, Dr Tim Nelson. He said the meeting 'confirmed for us that lack of trust'. This is a meeting they had requested and only received as a result of Michael McCormack MP, the member for Riverina, calling out the minister for not meeting with veterans in question time. Very hurriedly, a meeting was organised.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Donna Manton, a Defence veteran, advocate and longtime Labor supporter said she was heartsick to be calling out this government for not caring about veterans. Former Australian Navy diver John Armfield said, 'I enlisted under the navy values of courage, honour, honesty and loyalty, yet the minister failed to demonstrate any of those values.' This is the verdict of veterans who are completely aligned on scrapping this tax.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">But this did not start this week. There was the medals debacle. Minister Matt Keogh tried to impose a 20-year limit on retrospective Defence honours and awards. Veterans condemned it. Major veterans organisations opposed it. Former lieutenant colonel George Hulse described it as 'a regressive, repressive and oppressive' action. Eventually, the government was forced to withdraw the legislation. Even then, Minister Keogh blamed it on an inflammatory misinformation campaign from the veterans. Veterans object, the minister gets it wrong, and, somehow, everybody else is to blame.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Then came Doug and Kaye Baird, the parents of Corporal Cameron Baird VC, MG. Minister Keogh withdrew their longstanding travel support. Doug Baird said the minister had 'failed us badly'. Public outrage followed, then another reversal. Invictus Australia had funding removed. Veterans pushed back, and the funding was reinstated in another backflip. But now this, the $5,000 allied health threshold—again, announce first, consult later. There was a hastily convened, late in the day meeting where they were treated so disrespectfully, with not even a handshake on greeting. That is the Australian way to greet people, but the minister, apparently, had so little respect for veterans, he couldn't even bother with that.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Renee Wilson, CEO of the Families of Veterans Guild, said the first she heard of the minister's discussion paper was in question time. What did the minister tell the parliament? He said that consultation with the veteran community will be starting soon—starting soon when the policy had already been announced. Veterans are already fighting it. Only now does the minister decide it might be useful, perhaps, to listen to them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is his record: medals, a forced retreat; the Baird family, a reversal; Invictus, a reversal; the $5,000 threshold, announce first, consult later, and there are already veterans on suicide watch; and on refusing to meet veterans, 'I got it wrong'. How many times can one minister get it so wrong? How many veterans can he fail? How many veterans' families can he fail? Instead of attacking the messenger, Labor should finally listen to them. Our veterans have fought for Australia. They should not have to fight Minister Keogh as well. They say they have lost trust in him, but what about the Prime Minister? When is the Prime Minister going to take action on this minister who has lost the trust of our most revered people in Australia, our veterans?</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>81</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun</name>
              <name.id>257613</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="257613" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator GHOSH</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:21</span>):  Veterans and veterans' health care are incredibly important to the Albanese government. They're incredibly important to the minister, and I'm sure they're incredibly important to everybody in this chamber. Our veterans deserve deep respect. The respect, debt of gratitude and support that we owe Australian soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen does not end when they take off their uniforms. Anyone who signs up to serve in the military should be confident that they will be well supported not only in their career but also after their service ends.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have an example this week where we're acknowledging that Australia didn't do this as well as it could have done for Vietnam War veterans, because this week, right across the country, we are commemorating Vietnam Veterans' Day. We remember those who were killed and say thank you to the almost 60,000 Australians who served during our involvement in the Vietnam War. We acknowledge and remember the more than 3,000 who were wounded and the 523 who were killed. Many of them did not get a choice as a result of the conscription policy and many were not recognised properly upon their return. It is a stain that still sits on this country's history.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Across all services, it's estimated that there are currently around 640,000 people or more who have served in the Australian Defence Force in Australia today. That is 640,000 individual stories of service and of men and women across this country who have made sacrifices, including some in this chamber. I do want to acknowledge and applaud Senator Lambie for her courage in speaking openly not only today but on many occasions about her own experiences in the Australian Defence Force and some of the struggles afterwards with health and support. I also acknowledge Senator McLachlan and all the other senators and members of the House of Representatives who have served in our armed forces. I also acknowledge that, for a long time, many women who have served haven't been properly acknowledged, and they deserve our respect as well. We need to rectify some of the gender issues that still exist within our armed forces.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If I could speak to the rub of this motion for a moment, Minister Keogh has acknowledged that his initial decision not to meet with the groups of veterans, when the request initially came in, was wrong. He corrected that in that he met with that group and listened to their concerns. Minister Keogh is committed to treating veterans with care and respect. That's reflected in his record in this portfolio. He has been dedicated in his efforts to improve the system.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When you look at the recommendations from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veterans Suicide and the findings that were handed down, they were, in places, utterly damning. It was a system criticised for complexity, delay and a claims process that too often retraumatised the people who it was intended to serve. There are a lot of people who were responsible for that over the years, because, when you look at what was actually in that royal commission report, you see that this wasn't a problem that arose overnight. It arose over a very long period of time.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Since taking government in 2022, the Albanese government and Minister Keogh, who's been the veterans' affairs minister since 2022, have worked incredibly hard to improve the Department of Veterans' Affairs, to improve its funding and to ensure that it is properly staffed. That's been reflected across budgetary decisions, but it's also been reflected across the way in which backlogs of claims have been cleared. It's been reflected in changes in the way we process claims in order, as I said earlier, not to retraumatise veterans. That's a result that speaks to substance.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There are also structural problems that have been addressed by the minister and this government, including simplifying veterans entitlements legislation and trying to improve integrity within the system. The changes that came into effect on 1 July this year to simplify the veterans compensation scheme will make it easier for veterans and their families to understand what they're entitled to and shorten the timeframe that it takes for them to get it. Those changes included the creation of the new Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency, one of the key recommendations that emerged from the royal commission that has now been implemented.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Albanese government and Minister Keogh are committed to supporting those who sacrificed their time and their mental and physical health for their country. Those people deserve our respect. They deserve our gratitude and they deserve our ongoing support. But I don't support this motion from the coalition because I think the focus should be on working together to improve the lives of those who've put on a uniform for this country, and that goes to the substance of the policies and the support we actually give them. I think that when you look at the record—when you look at what's actually been done across four years and not just the attempt to make an attack here today—you'll see a government that's deeply committed to trying to improve the experience of veterans when they take off their uniform, and it will continue to be committed throughout the term of this government.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>82</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Steele-John, Sen Jordon</name>
              <name.id>250156</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250156" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator STEELE-JOHN</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:26</span>):  The government must immediately abandon its proposed annual $5,000 cap on allied health services for veterans. I have heard from veterans fearful about what this cap will mean for them, and I want to thank everyone who has got in touch with me about it. Allied health care is so important for our veterans. In real terms, it can mean a veteran with complex PTSD being able to see a psychologist or somebody who has a physical injury recovering from that injury with the help of a physiotherapist or an OT. When a veteran acquires a lifelong injury or disability, they experience trauma. They should be able to access essential care, not be told that they've hit some arbitrary limit. Come on! We've seen this story before. Give us a break!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This government is cherry-picking examples of what they're framing as fraud or overcharging, using them to get themselves a media headline and then turning around to punish veterans, who are the victims of this activity. They're taking a situation with a few bad apples and using it for a smokescreen for cuts. The coalition are rightly outraged. But I've got to say, folks, what did you think was going to happen? This is exactly the kind of thing you voted for last night with the NDIS. They've come for disabled people, cut the supports, and now they're coming for veterans.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government says, 'Don't worry; if it's over $5,000, you've just got to jump over another hoop.' But you've provided no detail, no clarity and people don't trust you. Allied health care saves lives. Veterans should not have to fight the system that they served. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>82</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Collins, Sen Jessica</name>
              <name.id>297964</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>LP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="297964" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COLLINS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Opposition Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:29</span>):  I feel really sorry for those on the other side. They have to get up and back in this minister, and the words that they are saying are cheap. The talk is cheap. At its core, it's just gaslighting of the Australian people. What matters most is how we treat our individuals, how we treat our veterans and how we treat the families of those veterans. What we saw from our Minister for Veterans' Affairs this week was an absolute disgrace. It was a spit in the face of all veterans and serving members—an absolute spit in the face. I tell you what: the veterans don't get upset easily, but they are absolutely fuming. They are hurt. They have no longer any trust in this government and no confidence in this Minister for Veterans' Affairs. I'll tell you why they don't. Let me tell you what he has done to this veteran community over the last six months.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">First he tried to take away their appeals for medals and honours. He tried to put time limits on all of that and make them pay for their appeals. Then he tried to take away the funding for Invictus, an important institution for the mental health of our veterans. Then, and probably the most egregious part of all, he tried to take away the funding for the parents of VC winner and national hero Corporal Cameron Baird. He backflipped on all of that because he realised he got it wrong. The veterans were disappointed. They were outraged. Quite frankly, they were insulted.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The Coalition of Veterans' Voices came to Canberra to share a warning for the Minister for Veterans' Affairs that his cuts to allied health funding meant that some veterans are on suicide watch, and he didn't even take a meeting. He didn't even take a meeting. I don't know if anyone here had the privilege of listening to Senator Lambie's speech last night about the lifelong trauma that people can carry with them after having served our country and being prepared to lay down their lives for us and our children and their children. He goes and takes their funding. This is the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, let's not forget.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We have bipartisan support for the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. There is absolutely no doubt about that. But what this minister is doing to the veteran community right now is nothing short of a disgrace, and we must hold him to account on this. Quite frankly, after this pattern of behaviour and the impact on the mental health of our veterans that this minister is causing, this minister must resign. I can't for the life of me understand why the Prime Minister continues to back him in. Why won't he stand him down? He refused to shake the hands of the veterans when they finally got a meeting with him. He sat there and crossed his arms. He rolled his eyes. It's an embarrassment for one, and absolutely not becoming of the man who is meant to represent them.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now he has an opportunity to do the right thing. We in the opposition, the coalition, believe that his position is untenable and he should stand aside and make amends. If the Prime Minister had a backbone, he'd sack him today. Minister Keogh has lost the confidence and the trust of veterans right across the country—the veterans that he is supposed to be serving. Veterans should not have to put up with this minister for one more day. The Prime Minister should show some leadership and sack him. <span style="font-style:italic;">(Time expired)</span></span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator O'Neill</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  The question is that the motion moved by Senator Cash be agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>83</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>140651</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:38]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator O'Neill)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Collins, J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>21</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>8</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans: Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans: Women's Health</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>84</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">O'Neill, Sen Deborah (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
              <name.id>140651</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="140651" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                  </a>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                  <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator O'Neill</span>
                  <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">)</span> (<span class="HPS-Time">16:40</span>):  The Senate will now consider the proposal, under standing order 75, from Senator Lambie, which has been circulated and is shown on the Dynamic Red:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The Albanese Government must immediately scrap the proposed $5,000 cap on allied health services for veterans which is contrary to recommendations from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide and represents a callous disregard for veterans' health and wellbeing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Is consideration of the proposal supported? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">
                  </span>
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</span>
                </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT:</span>  With the concurrence of the Senate, the Clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips. </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>84</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT, The</name>
                <name.id>10000</name.id>
                <electorate />
                <party />
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>84</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Lambie, Sen Jacqui</name>
              <name.id>250026</name.id>
              <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
              <party>JLN</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="250026" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator LAMBIE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:41</span>):  I move:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">The Albanese Government must immediately scrap the proposed $5,000 cap on allied health services for veterans which is contrary to recommendations from the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide and represents a callous disregard for veterans' health and wellbeing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Yesterday, 18 August, was Vietnam Veterans' Day. It was our Vietnam veterans who first called for a royal commission into the treatment of Australian veterans by our government. Thanks to years of campaigning from veterans, mothers and families who are advocates, and the many Australians who stood beside us, we got the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. The royal commissioners were clear: one of the biggest triggers for veterans taking their own lives is the lack of timely, accessible and ongoing health care. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The minister and the Prime Minister embraced the royal commission's findings. On the day of the report's release, the Prime Minister said, 'Just as our veterans and defence personnel step up for our country, we have an obligation to step up for them.' I have asked: how is putting a $5,000 cap on our allied health providers stepping up for us? </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">DVA is supporting over 357,000 veterans, with about 3,000 of them receiving allied health services in excess of $15,000 a year. That's less than one per cent of us. The question is: How did DVA measure the effectiveness of those services? Did they get them back on their feet? Did they get us back on our feet? Did they improve our quality of life? You're not stepping up for veterans; you are now stepping on us veterans. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">There is a growing number of organisations, including the national RSL—thank you, Peter Tinley; it's great to see the national RSL active again. I know you've been on those phones for over a month, Tinley. I've seen you walking the corridors up here, mate. Thanks for your support—all the veterans out there, all the ESOs and, of course, the mothers (it's always the mothers), like Julie-Anne Finney (thank you, Julie-Anne), speaking with one voice, saying, 'Scrap the cap.'</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">DVA's approach to veteran care is going backwards. Doctors and specialists are getting out because their fees are much lower when they treat veterans—and it would help if DVA would actually pay them on time. I know of at least five doctors over the last month who have stopped treating veterans because they can't afford it, and there are many on the sidelines saying that they can't hold on for much longer. Veterans are waiting months for DVA to approve a claim when their treating doctor has already delivered to DVA a report that proves their claim, or they get shunted off to mlcoa, an independent assessor that we do not trust, to get an additional report. It's just another slap in our faces.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You don't want to pay a little bit extra for our doctors; you want to go the cheap way. That is not going to save lives. If a doctor tells me that I have to get a procedure, I could be waiting up to 60 days for DVA to approve it, and for some liability claims it's taking well over 12 months just to decide on the initial liability claim. Are you kidding me! I'm lucky I have a good job and some savings that I can draw down on to pay for a procedure upfront. Most veterans do not. They cannot pay upfront. </span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">According to DVA's own data, there are currently over 100,000 claims waiting to be ticked off. As I told the Senate last night, in some cases DVA has used medical reports that have been provided to them to assess claims and still have not paid for those reports. You are shameful—absolutely shameful!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I heard of another case yesterday. The DVA has asked for the same report three times and received that report three times—three times! This is an incident that is growing and growing. We are going back to the good old days. I can't believe how far we have come, and now we are going backwards. What is happening in that department? What you need to ask yourself is: how many veterans' lives will this cost? Is it worth the one per cent of us—seriously, the worst of us? It's not worth it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This proposed cap on allied health services is totally out of step with the findings and recommendations of the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. For the seven per cent of veterans like me that have ongoing chronic issues from our service, this is a hammer blow. Allied health—which includes such things as physiotherapists, psychologists, podiatrists and exercise physiologists, along with other allied health services—is often the difference between a veteran getting back on their feet or not.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">So I ask Minister Keogh and the Prime Minister to please scrap this cap. I do believe it will cause suicides. But the shame of it is—I don't understand why you're having this fight with us. There are other savings that could be made in that department without hitting veterans. It is not worth it. And it is not worth your leadership, PM; it's just not. But, more importantly, it is not worth a veteran's life. So, once again, I am begging you to scrap the cap.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>85</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cox, Sen Dorinda</name>
              <name.id>296215</name.id>
              <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
              <party>ALP</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="296215" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator COX</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Western Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:46</span>):  I begin by acknowledging Senator Lambie's long and determined advocacy for veterans and her personal contributions both last night—here in this chamber, while I was in the chair—and earlier today. Sharing an experience like this in this chamber cannot be easy. Senator Lambie has taken her own pain and used it to fight for women and veterans without the same platform, resources or ability to pay. She brings this matter forward because she wants veterans to receive the care they need. That is the goal we all share.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Pelvic health conditions affecting women veterans have not always received the research, the recognition and the attention they deserve. On a personal side note as a former police officer, I still have hip pain decades later from wearing accoutrement belts. The government must take this seriously.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">On the question before the chamber, there's an important distinction. The government is not introducing a hard $5,000 cap after which veterans allied health services simply stops. From 1 July 2027, there will be a $5,000 threshold at which further treatment is clinically reviewed. Where additional care is clinically required, DVA will continue to fund it, including multiple additional episodes when needed. But I understand why the word 'threshold' provides little assurance to someone who's spent too long fighting the system.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">DVA will continue to consult veterans, families, providers and ex-service organisations to ensure that mechanisms are fast and simple and that they do not interrupt essential treatment. Senator Lambie's contribution should be heard as part of that process, and I want to honour that here today.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">These changes also come with a $169.7 million investment into allied health provider fees, the largest increase in more than two decades. When Labor came to government, DVA was underfunded and underresourced. Almost 42,000 claims had not been looked at. Labor funded DVA, hired staff and cleared that backlog. Today, DVA is better resourced than in the last three decades.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Funding for veterans services, rehabilitation and compensation has risen from around $10 billion under the previous government to $15 billion just in this year. We have delivered the most significant reform for veterans entitlements in generations. We simplified the system the royal commission found was so complicated it was damaging veterans' mental health. We opened a $78 million Veteran and Family Wellbeing Agency and established the independent Defence and Veterans' Service Commission.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">By the end of last year we had implemented 32 of the royal commission recommendations, and we expect to have implemented two-thirds by the end of this year. That is real change for veterans, and these allied health reforms build on that record. But no government should use its broader record to dismiss a veteran who says the system is still failing them. Senator Lambie has given this chamber a deeply personal warning about where those failures can lead. I cannot support this motion, because the proposed arrangement is not a hard cap on care. But the concern behind it must be heard. The test will be whether veterans like Kate and Senator Lambie receive the treatment they need without delay and unnecessary battles, and that is the standard veterans deserve. It is the standard our government accepts, and we will work to meet it.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>85</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
              <name.id>300134</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>NATS</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="300134" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CADELL</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:50</span>):  I was in the Senate estimates room with Senator Shoebridge, and I think Senator Pocock was there too, when we were asking questions of DVA about these cuts and this cap. When you get down to why these things happen—it came down to, out of all our veterans, two veterans receiving over $100,000. That's it. Two veterans out of the whole thing. I think one was getting a lot of money on dietitian work. I think that was one of them. I don't know the other one; it was maybe podiatry, but I can't remember. At the time, we asked, 'What are you doing to stop the rorts from these providers?'</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">If I were to see something going wrong—if I see overbilling—I would go after the provider and say, 'What you're doing is wrong and you are no longer part of the system.' I'd take action against them. We were stunned to hear that no action was taken against the providers, but action was taken against every single veteran—more than 25,000 of them—who went over the cap, over the $5,000 mark, in 2024-25. So two providers are potentially taking advantage of the system by rorting it, rorting taxpayers and rorting veterans, as well as taking money out of the system, and the government's answer is to punish 25,000 veterans by putting a cap on allied health services. In some articles of war, collective punishment is actually forbidden on this sort of thing, but we're doing it to our own veterans.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Imagine going and fighting overseas and serving in your military—doing all of this—and then being the victim of collective punishment by your own government for the actions of potentially one or two people. They talk about the crime of going to see the physio. That's a very good point. Imagine going to see the physio and being punished for it. When we talk about these 25,000 veterans that went over the cap and the savings—I heard them say: 'It's amazing. We're putting $79 million into allied health.' That's great! You're pulling $748 million out of the system and you want to be congratulated for putting a bit more than 10 per cent back into the system. This is the wrong way to go about it.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I texted a gentleman from Scone that I was talking to last week about this. I haven't got permission to use his name yet, but, if it comes through while I'm talking, I will. This $5,000 for him is in two months. He's in dire straits from his service. He was a young, fit man; his body's failing him. He's had open-heart surgery. He's had all of these things. For him, the uncertainty about what this means is causing more stress. It's actually making his position worse. We can't sit here as the kind of nation we are and say that the ends justify the means in this case. How can we possibly say that taking all of this certainty and all of this care from people who have put themselves forward to go to war for us is a good thing?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">When it comes to the ongoing consultations, I have an email from this same gentleman I was talking about earlier. It says: 'Can you suggest that he push the Minister for Veterans' Affairs to send any discussion papers to each and every RSL subbranch in the country? This will give a strong message back to the government of what they actually need and want. Everyone I talk to from my cohort of military mates is fuming, and they will tell the story that they need to, not the'—I'll remove the last two words from this because they're explicit. This is what I can't get down to. It is a missed call. People get these things wrong all the time, but it is a cap that serves no purpose. Imagine not fixing a problem. Imagine just extending how long the pain goes for if you get to your cap. It's a ridiculous thing.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've seen this time and time again. The government can identify a problem, but it doesn't even know how to go about fixing it. An action where it ticks a box is what this government wants, not an action that fixes the problem.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I say to our veterans: you deserve better. I say to our veterans: this is uncalled for. I say to the 25,000 veterans that need this help—there were 25,000 last year, and there may be more in the future: you need this help; you deserve it; and we will restore it, because it is just part of our deal with you. We are breaking a covenant we made with you when you took the oath, when you went into uniform, when you agreed to serve your country.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We've heard the very personal stories from Senator Lambie. We've heard them around. It was an unbelievable thing, sitting in that chamber, just hearing that this is all because of a couple of providers that have done the wrong thing, and that no action was taken against them. Don't punish the people that do the right thing for the actions of a couple of criminals.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>86</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Shoebridge, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>169119</name.id>
              <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
              <party>AG</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="169119" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">16:55</span>):  Thanks, Senator Lambie, for bringing this motion and telling it again like it is. I know it's hard. I'm really grateful you've been able to tell it like it is, Jacqui.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is about life-saving care. Allied health is not some abstract thing. I've heard from veterans about what it means to them. It means being able to go to the physiotherapist so you can get the chronic pain dealt with, so you can play with your kids in the backyard. It means being able to go the psychologist, and not just once or twice but maybe once a week, so you can get out of bed and engage in life. It's about being able to go to the occupational therapist, so you can stay at work and contribute and look after your family. That's what we're talking about here when we talk about allied health.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">As to a $5,000 cap: if you really need the care, you could churn through that in a matter of months. And what do you do for the rest of the year? You spend your time begging Veterans' Affairs, through some as-yet-unplanned bureaucracy, to see if they'll let you go to the physiotherapist; to see if they'll let you go to your psychologist. Who would come up with this?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We asked questions about it in estimates: 'Who did you talk with? Who did you consult? How would this work?' There were no answers at all. It's a thought bubble designed to reap three-quarters of a billion dollars in savings out of the veteran community.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The cap threatens life-saving care. Veterans aren't mugs, and they can see that a cut is a cut. They can read the budget like I can read the budget, and they can see the three-quarters of a billion dollars that this miserable government wants to take out of their care.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">The government says only one in 10 veterans will be impacted, but that's 10 per cent of all veterans. And they are the most vulnerable. They are the most in need. They are the most complex cases. They're the very people that we need to keep as far away as possible from the Veterans' Affairs bureaucracy and as close as possible to care. And this policy does the exact opposite. It takes them away from their physio, it takes them away from their psychology, and it feeds them into the mincing machine that is Veterans' Affairs bureaucracy. Who would come up with that!</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">They now claim they're 'consulting' about it. They're consulting on a policy that they've already put in the budget. That does not pass the pub test. That doesn't pass the kindergarten test. It sure as hell doesn't pass the test of veterans, who, as I said before, are not bloody mugs.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This isn't consulting. This is the same as we saw with the defence estate sell-off. They named the 70-odd properties they were going to sell. They told us about them. They published them in a list. And then they consulted on them. What is wrong with this government?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And do you know what? They've now come out and done the exact same thing they did with NDIS. They've come out here and said it's all about dodgy providers. They've said, 'Oh, there are people milking the system. It's about dodgy providers.' They ran it in the media.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">To those in the media listening: we watched you recycle these stories from the government again. We watched you, and veterans watched you. They're on to you as well, because, when you run those stories for Labor, you give them cover to take away the benefits from veterans, just like you gave them cover to take away help for those who need it from the NDIS. This government is using the media like a hammer to smash the victims of the system, not the dodgy providers. I can tell you this: every veteran I've spoken to would join you in a heartbeat to go after a dodgy provider. We'd join you in a heartbeat to go after a dodgy provider. But this isn't designed to go after dodgy providers; this is designed to go after veterans, punishing them for service.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Let's also remember that the government that's taking three-quarters of a billion dollars off veterans care is the same government that's actually handing $5 billion to Donald Trump for a bunch of nuclear submarines we'll never get. It's the same government that is spending hundreds of millions of dollars building houses for US troops in Perth. Why are Australian veterans at the back of the queue? Why is it always the same—money for war, money for weapons, money for Trump but never money to help the veterans who actually went and did service for us?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">You'll send a veteran to Iraq to fight in a war, but when they come back here and they need physiotherapy, they need psych treatment, you say: 'I'm sorry; I haven't got any money. I've given it to Donald.' Reverse this. Scrap the cap. Until you do, we'll keep coming back until it happens.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>87</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Roberts, Sen Malcolm</name>
              <name.id>266524</name.id>
              <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
              <party>ON</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="266524" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator ROBERTS</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:00</span>):  One Nation supports Senator Lambie's matter of urgency. The Albanese Labor government is again denigrating and mistreating our honourable and deserving Australian veterans, the people we rely on to keep us safe; who put country first, ahead of their own lives and safety; and to whom every Australian owes a huge debt. These are our finest—decent, caring, disciplined, noble—and, in serving Australia, some have been injured or damaged. This government is now treating these women and men with a contempt that should be called out for the shame that it brings on all Australians.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">I recently met with yet another group of veterans, the Coalition of Veterans Voices, concerned about Labor's interventions into veterans rights and care. These men and women are genuine, sensible and intelligent Australians alarmed at Labor's imminent curbing of veterans rights to essential allied health care needed as a result of their services to Australia. They said the minister, the Hon. Matt Keogh, who begrudgingly met with the veterans, declined to even shake their hands. What's wrong with Labor politicians? The group told me of the broken DVA claims processing—the uncaring system that hinders rather than helps—that seems not to have performance standards—and if it does, it rarely meet those standards. I was told that veterans are being denied their choice of provider. They're funnelled to a single provider contracted to the Department of Veterans' Affairs, where claims are then underestimated and delayed.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">DVA's own figures reveal that last year the average time to determine an initial claim took 364 days—virtually a year!—of wait time. As at 30 June 2026, the department had 103 outstanding claims. This system is clearly broken and needs to be reviewed and rebuilt. By the way, Senator Grogan mentioned that when her government came into office the backlog was 42,000. It's now 103,000. The changes will not assist veterans. They callously short-change veterans.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Labor now has an upper limit cap of $5,000 on allied health services and treatment for conditions and injuries that occurred because of defence service. Doctors and our veterans are worried, and have every right to be worried. Labor claims that this cap won't hurt veterans with complex cases, and yet admits that a system to apply the funding has not even been designed. The cap is contrary to recommendations by the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide. It's callous disregard for the health and wellbeing of veterans and is highly disrespectful.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Physiotherapy, occupational therapy, psychological services and other rehabilitation services are not discretionary needs—they're vital means to support vets to regain their health—and they need to be continuous, not capped and then having six months of no care before they're renewed. Veterans should be able to choose a practitioner who knows their care needs. A $5,000 cap is not a budget efficiency; it's a barrier to treatment. The cap must go. Scrap the cap.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In sync with this is the need for Labor to restore a veteran's right to choose their assessor and not be restricted to a government paid contractor likely to want to cut corners. Our relatively small Defence Force plays a vital role in defending the security of 28 million Australians, yet Labor fails to support vets under attack. When the ABC grossly misrepresented and harmed distinguished veteran Heston Russell, Labor did nothing despite the ABCs use of taxpayer funds. ABC lost a court case and failed repeatedly to apologise to Heston.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">And former commissioner Paul Brereton undermined accused veterans, including our most decorated soldier, Ben Roberts-Smith. Brereton's inaction reflected Labor's failure to assist and support veterans. Diggers went to Iraq on the basis of weapons of mass destruction and then, two years later, we found there were no weapons of mass destruction. That was a lie, but no-one apologised. Why would anyone seriously wish to join the military if they knew that they would be thrown on the scrapheap or ignored and disrespected if they left the service through service related injury or conditions?</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Are Labor's imminent caps on care the result of Labor's wasteful spending in other areas that's sending our country broke? Is this the Albanese government's trademark deceit and hypocrisy? Three words frame Labor: waste, hypocrisy and deceit. This inept Albanese government tries to look good, not do good—words, no substance. Yet, despite Labor's hype, misinformation and propaganda, Australians are waking up. One Nation and I completely support this matter of urgency.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
        </speech>
        <speech>
          <talk.start>
            <talker>
              <page.no>88</page.no>
              <time.stamp />
              <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
              <name.id>256136</name.id>
              <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
              <party>IND</party>
              <in.gov />
              <first.speech />
            </talker>
          </talk.start>
          <talk.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                  </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:05</span>):  I rise to support Senator Lambie's urgency motion today. In doing so, I thank Senator Lambie for her leadership on this issue and on all the issues, big and small, that affect veterans.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">At the Australian War Memorial, there is a truly haunting exhibit called 'Deathmin' by Kat Rae. I encourage all senators to have a look at it next time they're at the War Memorial. It shows a stack of DVA paperwork over 1½ metres high received by Ms Rae following her husband's death by suicide. Rather than describe it for the Senate, I thought I'd read Ms Rae's description of this exhibit and what it represents:</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">After my veteran husband Andrew suicided in 2017, I inherited a stack of post-death admin. This "deathmin" contains thousands of pages in which Andrew requests support for his broken body. Eventually, DVA paid $7 fortnightly, later reduced to $5. Three months before Andrew died, payments ceased.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Small">…   …   …</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">In the army, you are taught that no matter how tired you are, you cannot lean against walls. Heavy with fatigue and leaning precariously like the fate of so many, <span style="font-style:italic;">Deathmin</span> is weary and wants to rest.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Small">
                  <span style="font-style:italic;">Deathmin</span> is a counter-monument to the strong, upright imagery often conveyed in the Australian War Memorial. At my height and Andrew's weight, <span style="font-style:italic;">Deathmin</span> embodies the burden placed on veterans and their families. It asks bureaucratic institutions to care for the people they say they will.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">This is the lived reality of many veterans and their families across the country, and many I speak with here in the ACT, of battling with the DVA at every turn just to get the care they need.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Now we have this—a cap on the amount of allied health services a veteran can access each year. Yet more bureaucracy that a veteran has to engage with to receive health care—another form, another appointment. It might not seem like a lot to people who make these rules and introduce these caps, but it all goes on the stack. It's on the shoulders of veterans and their families. It's another doctor's appointment. For those who don't live in Canberra, it is pretty hard to get in to see a GP. We know that the vast majority of GPs don't even accept a white card here in Canberra.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">In introducing this cap, the government is saying, 'If you sustain an injury in service to this country, then we're only going to pay to fix some of it.' As I understand it, this is the first cap that we have ever, in the history of our country, put on veterans' health care. Truthfully, I find it offensive. People have talked about the kind of contract we have with veterans. If you're willing to serve our country and put your life on the line, and, in many instances, put your family through it—they're there with you. They're the ones moving around the country. They're the ones worrying about you when you are deployed or doing exercises off the coast or up north.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">We say we will look after you when you break your body, when you have mental injuries or when you suffer trauma, and, as has been well ventilated, my understanding is that the minister didn't even consult with veterans on this. Surely, we can do better than that—an arbitrary cut without consultation and an unprecedented cap to go after a few shonky operators. Let's go after the operators. Send the cops. I'm sure the AFP would love to go after operators who are screwing over veterans. Why don't we do that? Surely, that's the starting point rather than putting another burden on veterans. I know the government will say, 'Well, they can go to the GP, and they can work around it, and we can extend their cap'—but why? What are we doing this for? Surely, we can do better than this.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, thank you, Senator Lambie, for your work on this. How much you have their back is often commented on by veterans in the ACT.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">
                  <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                  </a>  The question is that the urgency motion moved by Senator Lambie be agreed to.</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </talk.text>
          <interjection>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>89</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
            </talk.text>
          </interjection>
        </speech>
        <division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:15]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Collins, J.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>21</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
    <debate>
      <debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>90</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo>
      <debate.text>
        <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
          <p class="HPS-Debate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
            <span class="HPS-Debate">BILLS</span>
          </p>
        </body>
      </debate.text>
      <subdebate.1>
        <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, National Self-exclusion Register (Cost Recovery Levy) Amendment Bill 2026, Interactive Gambling (Cost Recovery Levy) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>90</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
        <subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7520" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7521" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Self-exclusion Register (Cost Recovery Levy) Amendment Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7534" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Interactive Gambling (Cost Recovery Levy) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Limitation of Debate</title>
            <page.no>90</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">Limitation of Debate</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>90</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:17</span>):  Pursuant to the order agreed to on 18 August, the time allotted for the second reading of the interactive gambling bills has expired. I will now put the question before the chair and then put the remaining questions required to complete the second reading stage. I will first deal with the amendment moved by Senator David Pocock.<span class="HPS-DivisionResult"></span>The question is that the amendment on sheet 4005 be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:22]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>90</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:23</span>):  I will now deal with the second reading amendment circulated by the Australian Greens. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Greens' circulated amendment—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) notes that the major parties have been given more than $10 million by gambling companies and lobby groups;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) acknowledges that these political inducements being funnelled into the two major parties by the gambling lobby has bought the gambling industry significant influence throughout the debate on these bills;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) notes that this level of vested interests in politics is corrosive to our democracy; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) calls on the Government to ban all political donations from the gambling industry".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the amendment on sheet 4009 be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>90</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:24]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>91</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                <name.id>112096</name.id>
                <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">The PRESIDENT</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Time">17:26</span>):  I will now deal with the second reading amendment circulated by Senator Thorpe.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Senator Thorpe's circulated amendment—</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit all words after "That", substitute "the Senate rejects the bill and is of the opinion that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) gambling disproportionately harms Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the bill was subject to inadequate consultation with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people impacted by gambling harms; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the bill ignores many of the recommendations in the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs report 'You win some, you lose more' (known as the Murphy report), including:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) that the Australian Government should establish a national online gambling regulator with the sole purpose of reducing harm and with responsibility for all licencing and regulation, and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) that this regulator should levy online wagering service providers to fund national strategy harm reduction measures, including supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled health organisations to develop and implement measures that reduce gambling harm impacting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question is that the amendment on sheet 3973 be agreed to.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Question negatived.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>91</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>91</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McKim, Sen Nick</name>
                <name.id>JKM</name.id>
                <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="JKM" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McKIM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Tasmania</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Australian Greens Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:26</span>):  I ask that the Australian Greens' support for Senator Thorpe's second reading amendment be noted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="112096" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The PRESIDENT:</span>
                    </a>  The question now is that the bills be now read a second time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal"> </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>91</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Lines, Sen Sue (The PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>112096</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:27]<br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division>
        </subdebate.2>
        <subdebate.2>
          <subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
          <subdebate.text>
            <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
              <p class="HPS-SubSubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubSubDebate">In Committee</span>
              </p>
              <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-Normal">Bills—by leave—taken together and as a whole.</span>
              </p>
            </body>
          </subdebate.text>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>92</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                <name.id>250362</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator FARUQI</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:30</span>):  I'm not a betting woman but you can always be confident betting on the two major parties to screw over the people who live in this country. It isn't even a gamble to bet on Labor and the Liberals joining up to pass half-baked weak laws, because this is what the big gambling corporations want them to do. They just say, 'Yes, sir'. Labor collected over $4 million in gambling-related bribes—sorry, I mean 'donations'—between 2020 and 2025.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CHISHOLM:</span>
                    </a>  I'd ask that Senator Faruqi withdraw that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="257613" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ghosh</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Faruqi, there's been a request that you withdraw your reference to bribes. I think that it would be appropriate for you to do that. You corrected it and said something else, so I will ask you to withdraw that, please.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="250362" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator FARUQI:</span>
                    </a>  I withdraw. Labor collected over $4 million in gambling-related inducements between 2020 and 2025. This legislation makes clear exactly who is pulling the strings.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The late Peta Murphy, in a foreword to her report <span style="font-style:italic;">You win some, you lose </span><span style="font-style:italic;">m</span><span style="font-style:italic;">ore</span>, said that she was proud to deliver a unanimous report that says enough is enough. She was explicit when she said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A phased, comprehensive ban on all gambling advertising on all media, that leaves no room for circumvention, is needed. Partial bans on gambling advertising do not work.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">But you guys paid no heed. Since the publication of Peta Murphy's report, Australians have lost over $104 billion to gambling. That's $666 million per week. The social harm that this has caused has devastated people and families.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Labor and Liberal senators voting for this today should be so ashamed. It seems that you come in here with the determination of harming people and communities. Yesterday, it was the cruel NDIS cuts. Today, it is the gambling industry that you are supporting and propping up. This is the Albanese Labor government's MO: do just enough to get a headline, but don't actually fix the real issue, and definitely do not risk upsetting whichever corporations and their bigwigs that are paying politicians so they can keep ripping people off.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It's not oversimplifying to say that this is all just about political donations. In this case, it couldn't be clearer. Four in five Australians support a total ban on gambling advertisements, including on TV, radio and online. A total gambling ad ban is an overwhelmingly popular policy. But what does this bill do? It is nowhere near it. The only winners today are the big gambling companies preying on the vulnerable and raking in profit after profit.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">One of the core focuses of this so-called reform has been on inducements, or what the gambling industry likes to sanitise through the term 'generosities'. This was yet another crystal clear recommendation of the Murphy report: ban inducements. Yet the draft bill we got from Prime Minister Albanese didn't even touch on them. Now, pushed in the Senate inquiry to do something, the Prime Minister and Angus Taylor have cut a deal to put their gambling company donors in charge of who is or isn't able to access inducements. What an utter disgrace!</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Recent data from the Australian Gambling Research Centre showed that around three million people are engaged in some form of harmful gambling. Many of these people have told their devastating stories over and over, but the government has turned the other cheek and somehow still feels comfortable getting up and pretending that this is reform and that this will stop harm. Well, it won't. It won't stop harm. This is just another Labor and Liberal stitch-up that will continue to see gambling decimate families and decimate communities. Gambling companies are the winners once again, just like the gas companies are the winners of the failure to impose a gas export tax and just like the war machine is the winner of the failing AUKUS deal.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Time and time again, this Labor government proves that it is completely bought out by vested interests. The days of a Labor Party that stands up for the workers are long gone. What is left is a party bereft of courage and full of cowardice. They have shown that again today, and they showed it yesterday. We see right through you. People see right through you. You are fooling no-one, and you will be held to account for these terrible decisions. The Greens will be moving amendments to give teeth to this legislation, and I want to foreshadow two amendments to the bill that I will be moving. They will remove the gambling reform exemptions from horse racing, harness racing and greyhound racing. It hasn't been talked about much, but it is a very important amendment.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">After decades of excusing horse and greyhound deaths, all in the name of so-called sport, the Labor government now wants to say that horse racing and greyhound racing are not sports for the purposes of gambling. Which is it? Are you finally admitting that this horrific cruelty is no sport at all? There are no lines the Albanese government won't cross. There is no hypocrisy it won't engage in if it fills their election war chest. In the inquiry hearing, even Racing Australia CEO Paul Eriksson admitted that, without wagering, there is no racing industry. This is because horse and greyhound racing lost their social licence years ago.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Ordinary people don't want to watch horses and dogs be run to their deaths. Go to a greyhound racing meet, and the stands will be empty. But the racing industry says: 'No worries. Under Labor, Liberals and One Nation, we will always be able to rely on robbing the public of their hard earned money. We can continue to cover their screens in ads encouraging gambling, and we will always be able to prey on people's suffering.' The exemption for animal racing is purely to sustain what would otherwise be a dead and buried industry—buried in the ground alongside the gorgeous animals that they have forced to race.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill does not protect Australians from gambling harm. It gives a green light for wagering companies to go all-in on funnelling their marketing budgets into horse and greyhound racing, but the irony doesn't stop there. The Albanese government says that, if you are a dedicated racing channel or program, you're not constrained by any of these weak reforms either. Effectively, you are saying gambling advertising must be constrained somewhat because of the harm it causes—that is, unless your whole business is dedicated to increasing gambling. Make it make sense. Minister, my question to you is: why the hell have you brought this piss-weak bill into parliament?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="257613" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ghosh</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Minister, I'm going to call you in a moment. Senator Faruqi, I note that some of that phrasing is going right up to the line of what would be parliamentary. I'm giving you an indication of that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>92</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                  <name.id>39801</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>92</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>257613</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>92</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Faruqi, Sen Mehreen</name>
                  <name.id>250362</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>93</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>257613</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>93</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:39</span>):  Thanks, Senator Faruqi, for the question. This is the most substantial and strongest ever action that any government has taken in terms of gambling reform. You can tut-tut all you want, but it's actually the reality of what we are dealing with in terms of this legislation. You did make mention of the Murphy report, which is obviously a substantial bit of work that has gone into influencing the government's decision on this. I am someone who has the highest regard for the late Peta Murphy and the work that she did, and that has been important in terms of influencing government on the decisions that we've taken.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This is part of an extensive consultation where we've listened to a range of views to land the balanced approach that we have in this legislation. Whilst we've heard for a long time that many Australians enjoy having a bet and that it's part of their social life, for others it becomes a trap that they can't escape. That's something that we're dealing with in terms of this legislation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We understand that there are strongly held views about this issue in the parliament and also around the country, but we believe that this legislation gets the balance right. It implements reform that protects people from gambling harm. It also protects children from overexposure to gambling ads. We think that that gets the right balance for this parliament to be supportive of.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="257613" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ghosh</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Before I call the next question, I need to note that, with the concurrence of the Senate, the statements of reasons accompanying the requests circulated for this bill will be incorporated in <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span> immediately after the requests to which they relate. There being no objection to that, it is so ordered.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>93</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun (The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT)</name>
                  <name.id>257613</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>93</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:41</span>):  by leave—in respect of the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026, I move amendments (1) to (9) on sheet 3863 together:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (after table item 2), insert:</span>
                </p>
                <table class="HPS-Hansard" cellspacing="0" style="&#xA;          width:471pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;        border-collapse:collapse;margin-left:16.4pt&#xA;      ;">
                  <tr class="HPS-" style="height:0;page-break-inside:avoid;">
                    <td class="HPS-" style="&#xA;    width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;  border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;border-top:none windowtext 0pt;border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;">
                      <div class="-firstRow">
                        <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                          <span class="HPS-Small">2A. Schedule 4A</span>
                        </p>
                      </div>
                    </td>
                    <td class="HPS-" style="&#xA;    width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;  border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;border-top:none windowtext 0pt;border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;">
                      <div class="-firstRow">
                        <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                          <span class="HPS-Small">1 January 2030.</span>
                        </p>
                      </div>
                    </td>
                    <td class="HPS-" style="&#xA;    width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;  border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;border-top:none windowtext 0pt;border-bottom:none windowtext 0pt;">
                      <div class="-firstRow">
                        <p class="HPS-Small" style="text-align:left;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                          <span class="HPS-Small">1 January 2030</span>
                        </p>
                      </div>
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                  <tr height="0">
                    <td style="&#xA;              margin:0;padding:0;border:none;width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;            ">
                    </td>
                    <td style="&#xA;              margin:0;padding:0;border:none;width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;            ">
                    </td>
                    <td style="&#xA;              margin:0;padding:0;border:none;width:157pt&#xA;      ;&#xA;            ">
                    </td>
                  </tr>
                </table>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Clause 4, page 2 (line 15), omit "Schedule 1 of", substitute "Schedule 4A to".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) Page 92 (after line 28), after Schedule 4, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Schedule 4A</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Full prohibition on wagering advertising</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part 1</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Main amendments</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">Interactive Gambling Act 2001</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">1 Section 3 (paragraph (g))</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "in certain circumstances", substitute "in most circumstances".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">2 Section 62A</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the section, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">62A Simplified outline of this Part</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Line">‚</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        &#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Content that includes advertising, promotional or sponsorship content (called <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">wagering advertising content</span>) must not be broadcast, datacast, or included in online content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        &#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Sporting uniforms, apparel or equipment and sporting venues must not display wagering advertising content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        &#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Athletes, celebrities and certain other people must not be used to promote wagering services.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        &#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Exceptions apply, including for programs, channels and online services dedicated to racing and for internet search engine results for licensed interactive wagering services.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">3 Section 62B</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the following definitions:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">account</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">channel</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">live</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(d) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">odds</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(e) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">promotion of odds</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(f) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">program</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(g) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">restricted user</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(h) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">scheduled break</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">scheduled start</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(j) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">unscheduled break</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">4 Sections 62G and 62H</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the sections.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">5 Subsections 62J(7) to (12)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the subsections.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">6 Division 2 of Part 7C</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the Division, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Division 2</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Prohibition on broadcasting or datacasting wagering advertising content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">62K Prohibition on broadcasting or datacasting wagering advertising content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Civil penalty provision</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">broadcasting or datacasting of content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) A person contravenes this subsection if the person broadcasts or datacasts wagering advertising content in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note: See sections 62ZA, 62ZB and 62ZC for general exceptions for conduct relating to content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil penalty:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Civil penalty provision</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">authorising or causing broadcasting or datacasting of content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) A person must not authorise or cause wagering advertising content to be broadcast or datacast in contravention of subsection (1).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note: See sections 62ZA, 62ZB and 62ZC for general exceptions for conduct relating to content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil penalty:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Exception</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">dedicated racing or wagering program or channel</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if the broadcast or datacast of wagering advertising content is on:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) a dedicated racing program or channel; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) a dedicated wagering program or channel.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 1: A person who wishes to rely on this subsection bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter in this subsection (see section 96 of the Regulatory Powers Act).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 2: See also sections 62ZA, 62ZB and 62ZC (which are about general exceptions for conduct relating to content).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 3: For when a program or channel is <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">dedicated</span> to racing or wagering, see section 62E.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">7 Division 3 of Part 7C</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the Division, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Division 3</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Prohibition on providing wagering advertising content on online content services</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">62P Prohibition on providing wagering advertising content on online content services</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Civil penalty provision</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">providing content on online content service</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) A person contravenes this subsection if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the person is an online content service provider; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) wagering advertising content is provided in Australia on the online content service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note: For the meaning of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">online content service provider</span>, see section 4. For the meaning of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">online content service</span>, see section 10C.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil penalty:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Civil penalty provision</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">authorising or causing content to be provided on online content service</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) A person contravenes this subsection if the person authorises or causes wagering advertising content to be included in content provided on an online content service in contravention of subsection (1).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil penalty:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Exception</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">internet search engine service</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the person is an internet search engine service provider; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the content is a search engine result for a licensed interactive wagering service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note: A person who wishes to rely on subsection (2) or (3) bears an evidential burden in relation to the matters in those subsections (see section 96 of the Regulatory Powers Act).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Exception</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">dedicated racing or wagering online content services</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) Subsections (1) and (7) do not apply if the wagering advertising content is provided on:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) a dedicated racing online content service; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) a dedicated wagering online content service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 1: A person who wishes to rely on this subsection bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter in this subsection (see section 96 of the Regulatory Powers Act).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 2: For when an online content service is <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">dedicated</span> to racing or wagering, see section 62E.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Separate contraventions</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (2)<span style="font-style:italic;"></span>commits a separate contravention of that subsection in respect of each time that wagering advertising content is provided on the online content service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">8 Division 4 of Part 7C</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the Division.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">9 Subparagraph 62V(a)(i)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">After "uniform", insert "or other apparel".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">10 After subparagraph 62V(a)(i)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ia) equipment used by an individual in Australia who is a participant or official in connection with a sporting event or an activity related to a sporting event; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">11 Section 62V (penalty)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the penalty, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil Penalty:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12 Section 62W</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the section, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">62W Prohibition relating to notable people promoting wagering advertising content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) A licensed interactive wagering service provider contravenes this subsection if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the licensed interactive wagering service provider makes a contract or arrangement, or arrives at an understanding; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the contract, arrangement or understanding relates to the sponsorship, participation or involvement of a notable person in connection with the promotion of wagering advertising content in Australia.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 1: See sections 62ZA, 62ZB and 62ZC for general exceptions for conduct relating to content.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 2: For the meaning of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">notable person</span>, see section 62F.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Civil penalty</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) for an individual—2,000 penalty units; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) for a body corporate—20,000 penalty units.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Exception</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">racing</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the sponsorship, participation or involvement of a notable person relates to the promotion of wagering advertising content that:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) relates solely or principally to racing; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) is or will be:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) broadcast or datacast on a dedicated racing program or channel; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      57pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) provided on a dedicated racing online content service.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 1: A person who wishes to rely on this subsection bears an evidential burden in relation to the matter in this subsection (see section 96 of the Regulatory Powers Act).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Note 2: For the meaning of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">racing</span>, see section 62B. For when an online content service is <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">dedicated</span> to racing or wagering, see section 62E.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">13 Sections 62X, 62Y and 62Z</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the sections.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">14 Paragraph 64A(xa)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62K(3)", substitute "subsection 62K(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">15 Paragraphs 64A(xb), (xc), (xd), (xe), (xf) and (xg)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">16 Paragraph 64A(xi)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62P(7)", substitute "subsection 62P(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">17 Paragraphs 64A(xj), (xk), (xl), (xm) and (xn)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">18 Paragraph 64A(xp)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62W(1)", substitute "section 62W".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">19 Paragraphs 64A(xq), (xr), (xs), (xt), (xu) and (xv)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">20 Paragraph 64C(1)(xa)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62K(3)", substitute "subsection 62K(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">21 Paragraphs 64C(1)(xb), (xc), (xd), (xe), (xf) and (xg)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">22 Paragraph 64C(1)(xi)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62P(7)", substitute "subsection 62P(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">23 Paragraphs 64C(1)(xj), (xk), (xl), (xm) and (xn)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">24 Paragraph 64C(1)(xp)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62W(1)", substitute "section 62W".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">25 Paragraphs 64C(1)(xq), (xr), (xs), (xt), (xu) and (xv)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">26 Paragraph 64D(1)(xa)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62K(3)", substitute "subsection 62K(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">27 Paragraphs 64D(1)(xb), (xc), (xd), (xe), (xf) and (xg)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">28 Paragraph 64D(1)(xi)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62P(7)", substitute "subsection 62P(2)".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">29 Paragraphs 64D(1)(xj), (xk), (xl), (xm) and (xn)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">30 Paragraph 64D(1)(xp)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Omit "subsection 62W(1)", substitute "section 62W".</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">31 Paragraphs 64D(1)(xq), (xr), (xs), (xt), (xu) and (xv)</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Repeal the paragraphs.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(4) Schedule 5, page 93 (after line 3), before item 1, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part 1</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Interpretation</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(5) Schedule 5, item 1, page 93 (lines 6 to 10), omit the following definitions:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">commencement day</span>;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) definition of <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">new IGA Act</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(6) Schedule 5, item 1, page 93 (after line 10), at the end of the item, add:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">stage 1 commencement day</span> means the day when Schedule 1 commences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">stage 2 commencement day</span> means the day when Schedule 4A commences.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">stage 1 IGA Act</span> means the <span style="font-style:italic;">Interactive Gambling Act 2001</span> on or after the stage 1 commencement day and before the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;font-style:italic;">stage 2 IGA Act</span> means the <span style="font-style:italic;">Interactive Gambling Act 2001</span> on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(7) Schedule 5, page 93 (after line 14), after item 2, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part 2</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Stage 1 application</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(8) Schedule 5, items 3 to 12, page 93 (line 15) to page 96 (line 15), omit the items, substitute:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">3 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">broadcasts, datacasts and online content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) The following provisions of the stage 1 IGA Act apply in relation to a broadcast or datacast that occurs on or after the stage 1 commencement day:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) Division 2 of Part 7C;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) subsection 62W(2);</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) sections 62X, 62Y and 62Z.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) The following provisions of the stage 1 IGA Act apply in relation to content that is provided on an online content service on or after the stage 1 commencement day:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) sections 62P, 62R, 62Y and 62Z;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) subsection 62W(2).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) Section 62Q of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to content that is delivered to (or attempted to be delivered to) or accessed by an individual on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">4 Transitional provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">displaying wagering advertising content on uniforms and at sporting venues</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Excluded arrangements</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Section 62V of the stage 1 IGA Act or the stage 2 IGA Act does not apply in relation to the display of wagering advertising content if:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) the display occurs during the period starting on the stage 1 commencement day and ending at the end of 31 December 2031; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) the display is covered by an arrangement entered into before the introduction day; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(c) the arrangement has not been varied, on or after the introduction day, for the purpose or effect of:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(i) extending the duration of the arrangement to the extent it relates to wagering advertising content; or</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      45pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(ii) increasing the prominence, size, duration or number of displays of wagering advertising content under the arrangement.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Subsequent broadcasts of displays</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) If:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) subitem (1) applies in relation to the display of wagering advertising content; and</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) a person engages in conduct which causes or results in the broadcast, datacast or provision on an online content service of the display of wagering advertising content in contravention of one or more provisions of Part 7C of the stage 1 IGA Act or the stage 2 IGA Act;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">then, the person is taken not to contravene the provision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">Meaning of arrangement</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(3) For the purposes of this section, an arrangement includes a contract, arrangement or understanding.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">5 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">notable people promoting wagering advertising content</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Subsection 62W(1) of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to a contract, arrangement or understanding entered into on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">6 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">information gathering</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 22A of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to information or documents required to be given or produced on or after the stage 1 commencement day, whether the information or document was obtained or created before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">7 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">use and disclosure of information</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Sections 62T and 62U of the stage 1 IGA Act apply in relation to the collection, use or disclosure of information on or after the stage 1 commencement day, whether the information was obtained or created before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Section 59DC of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Australian Communications and Media Authority Act 2005</span>, as inserted by Schedule 2, applies in relation to the disclosure of information on or after the stage 1 commencement day, whether the information was obtained or created before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">8 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">record keeping</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 62ZD of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to a broadcast, datacast or provision of content on an online content service, that occurs on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">9 Application provision</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">—</span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">transfer of funds</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Section 15J of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to a payment or transfer of funds to be made on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Subitem (1) applies whether the relevant designated interactive gambling service was provided before, on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">10 Application provision—use of infrastructure</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 15AB of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to a use of infrastructure or facilities, or a provision of services that occurs (or begins to occur) on or after the stage 1 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">11 Application provision—removal notices</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Division 5A of Part 7A of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to a removal notice given on or after the stage 1 commencement day, whether the designated interactive gambling service advertisement is published before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12 Application provision—civil penalty provisions</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Subsection 64C(1A) of the stage 1 IGA Act applies in relation to an infringement notice given after the stage 1 commencement day, whether the conduct constituting the alleged contravention, or alleged contraventions, of the provision to which the infringement notice relates occurs before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(9) Schedule 5, page 96 (after line 15), after item 12, insert:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part 3—Stage 2 application</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12A Application provision—stage 2</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Division 2 of Part 7C of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to a broadcast or datacast that occurs on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Division 3 of Part 7C of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to content that is provided on an online content service on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12B Application provision—information gathering</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 22A of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to information or documents required to be given or produced on or after the stage 2 commencement day, whether the information or document was obtained or created before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12C Application provision—record keeping</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 62ZD of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to a broadcast, datacast or provision of content on an online content service, that occurs on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12D Application provision—transfer of funds</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Section 15J of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to a payment or transfer of funds to be made on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Subitem (1) applies whether the relevant designated interactive gambling service was provided before, on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12E Application provision—use of infrastructure</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Section 15AB of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to a use of infrastructure or facilities, or a provision of services that occurs (or begins to occur) on or after the stage 2 commencement day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12F Application provision—removal notices</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Division 5A of Part 7A of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to a removal notice given on or after the stage 2 commencement day, whether the designated interactive gambling service advertisement is published before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12G Application provision—civil penalty provisions</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      23pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Subsection 64C(1A) of the stage 2 IGA Act applies in relation to an infringement notice given after the stage 2 commencement day, whether the conduct constituting the alleged contravention, or alleged contraventions, of the provision to which the infringement notice relates occurs before, on or after that day.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">12H Application provision—proceedings entered into before stage 2 commencement day</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Despite the amendments of the <span style="font-style:italic;">Interactive Gambling Act 2001</span> made by Schedule 4A, the stage 1 IGA Act continues to apply, on and after the stage 2 commencement day, as if those amendments had not been made, in relation to the following:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(a) an application made, or proceedings on foot, as at the stage 2 commencement day;</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      34pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(b) an application for review of, or an appeal relating to, an application or proceedings referred to in paragraph (a) (whether the application for review was made, or the appeal proceedings were brought, before, on or after the stage 2 commencement day).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(a), an application or proceedings are on foot until all rights of review and appeal in relation to the application or proceedings have expired or have been exhausted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;        margin-left:&#xA;      11pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-weight:bold;">Part 4—Transitional rules</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister, this sheet implements the flagship recommendation from the Murphy report. That was a phased-in ban on all gambling ads over three years. The bill will pass today. Should these amendments be supported then, in three years time, gambling ads in all forms would be banned, as the Murphy report said, giving three years to sports, free-to-air and the gambling companies to transition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">My question is: given that multiple reports now—the Murphy report and the rapid review into family and domestic violence—say that we need a full phased-in ban on all gambling ads and that partial bans don't work, why has the government gone for a partial ban that gets the balance right with three ads every hour? How is three ads every hour from 5 am to 8.30 pm getting the balance right?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>99</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:42</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock, for the question and also for moving the amendments. Just to be clear, the government will be opposing these amendments. We will not be supporting them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As I mentioned when I was responding to Senator Faruqi before, we believe that the gambling reform bill seeks to deliver real, deliverable and lasting measures that will genuinely tackle gambling harm. The reforms in this bill have been targeted to address key community concerns at the same time. That's why I emphasise that balanced package approach that we're taking, which will significantly reduce the exposure to wagering advertising—particularly for children and vulnerable people, which we believe is important—and also the work that would be done in regard to the opt-out system online. We believe that this approach gets the balance right between what is a legitimate industry that's allowed to advertise and protecting and responding to community concerns at the same time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>99</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McLachlan, Sen Andrew</name>
                <name.id>287062</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="287062" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McLACHLAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:43</span>):  I thought I'd take this opportunity to clarify for the honourable senators my position in relation to the bill. I voted against it at the second reading. I intend, during committee, to vote for Senator Pocock's amendments. They find favour with me. My intention, at this stage, is to vote no at the third reading.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I'd like to congratulate my friend Senator Scarr on his contribution at the second reading. I've been very much swayed by Senator Scarr's advocacy and also by the members for Fisher and Cowper in the other place. The member for Cowper is also, I think, the only member remaining from the Murphy report.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Scarr:</span>
                    </a>  In the coalition.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="287062" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator McLACHLAN:</span>
                    </a>  Thank you, Senator Scarr. The legislation, in my view, does very little, virtually nothing, to respond to the substantial findings of the Murphy review. I just really question what the point of a bipartisan review is when you can't respond to very significant and heartfelt recommendations from that committee.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I don't see anything in the bill that really diminishes the rivers of gold that the corporates are earning, or sufficient restraints on their abilities to prey on the most vulnerable, particularly our children. I've listened to the charities who have to respond to the carnage caused by addiction. It's their voices we should be acting on, not those that are making the money.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've listened to arguments at the second reading made by some coalition members that there could be unintended consequences that are similar to tobacco regulation. I don't find them persuasive. We're not banning gambling; we are debating how it can be promoted. We are debating the nature of the promotion of gambling and that the behaviours of many of the companies can be rightly described as predatory and underpinning addiction.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This bill will pass today. The numbers are clear. I think when we come to the review in three years we'll find that organisations like Anglicare will tell us nothing has changed, if not become worse. I hold Anglicare in the highest regard and have volunteered for them. I think that they will be saying to us, as they do now, that the regime that underpins gambling advocacy and promotion is founded on quicksand, moral quicksand, and I can't bring myself to vote for these bills in good conscience.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>99</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                  <name.id>282997</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>100</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">McLachlan, Sen Andrew</name>
                  <name.id>287062</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>100</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ZN4" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HENDERSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:47</span>):  The coalition won't be supporting this amendment. In my second reading speech this morning, I laid out the many and vast number of amendments that the coalition has worked on and brought forward. This is now a vastly stronger bill than previously, of course. But I just want to reiterate that in the bill now, with the coalition's amendments, there are now tougher restrictions on broadcasters. The data shows that, in relation to children switching on to watch live sport, the preceding 15-minute window is the principal window when most Australians seeking to sit down and watch their favourite game, switch on to wait for the whistle to blow and the game to start, so in the bill there'll be an extended blackout period that's been tripled from five minutes to 15 minutes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There is a current prohibition in relation to gambling ads not being able to be shown in children's television programming in the industry code, but, unbelievably, the government's bill before it was amended allowed up to three gambling ads per hour in children's television programming and also didn't deal with gambling ads being directed towards children. That has now been resolved and is now prohibited, reflecting the current prohibitions in the industry code. There's been an extension of this restriction window. The restriction window now starts at 5 am, as is the current law, rather than 6 am. Very significantly for the commercial networks, which apply the same broadcast rules to simulcasts of their programming, their terrestrial program on their BVOD platforms will be only on the condition that there will be no gambling ads allowed during video on demand catch-up TV programs. There'll be tougher online restrictions because the government's bill previously weakened the online rules in a number of respects, including dropping the five-minute window.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">There have been some very significant amendments now incorporated into this bill and passed in the other place banning predatory inducements. These amendments combat some of the worst harms then caused and directed towards addicted gamblers where many Australians are really suffering. There is a ban on staff commissions relating to customer activity to stop the horrendous conduct where gambling companies have been chasing those customers incurring very large losses. There's a ban on inducements to red flagged customers, including via social media targeted advertising, with very strong obligations on the wagering companies to monitor customers' activity and very big fines for breaches of that provision.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Despite what Responsible Wagering says in talking about the framework that is in place in relation to limiting inducements and red flagging problem gamblers and other gamblers showing real signs of harm, there are no laws at all, and there were no provisions in the government's bill until it was amended in the other place. These are very significant changes to the law, with the regulator having very strong powers in relation to the direct marketing of inducements. There will be a complete prohibition for all new accountholders and, of course, there will be the cooling-off period for three months after for people who have deregistered from BetStop.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The other really important thing—and this is incredibly important for families, including, of course, for children—is that every single family in Australia can, because of the coalition's amendments, go to the global opt-out register, a one-stop shop to stop all wagering ads online. This will be established and paid for by industry. There will be 12 months of design and implementation. For those who don't want to use the one-stop shop, they can be assured that every online platform will be required to display the opt-out option for gambling ads very prominently. That's another improvement to the bill.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I think one of the most significant elements of the bill, and one of the most significant amendments brought forward by the coalition, is that publishers of gambling advertisements are now going to be directly liable for publishing illegal gambling ads, such as from illegal offshore casinos. They are a scourge on social media. They are everywhere, and they are so hard to detect because they are so misleading and deceptive. They mimic the logos of the legitimate licensed wagering companies in this country, and that is a very, very big step forward. I can tell you, these ads are all over Facebook. They are costing Australians billions of dollars, and the provisions now in this bill will ensure that the regulator has very strong powers not to just play whack-a-mole against the illegal overseas websites—they take them down, and they pop up in a flash—there is now direct liability for the publishers of these advertisements in Australia so that before a wagering ad is actually published, the publisher must ensure that that ad is being served by a licensed wagering provider in this country.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I very much respect my good friends Senator Scarr and Senator McLachlan. One of the great features of the Liberal Party is that we respect the freedom and the individual conscience of every senator and member who sits on the backbench, and they have the ability to cross the floor when they feel that they have no other choice. I did it last year in relation to another matter, and so I totally respect the very strongly held views of Senators Scarr and McLachlan, but I do say that this is a vastly improved bill, and I'm really proud of the work that the coalition has done in this respect.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>101</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
                <name.id>300134</name.id>
                <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                <party>NATS</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300134" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CADELL</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">New South Wales</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Nationals Whip in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">17:54</span>):  I'd like to withdraw the amendment on sheet 3971 in my name, and I move the amendment on sheet 4008 to the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(1) Schedule 4, item 1, page 106 (lines 4 to 8), <span style="font-weight:bold;">to be opposed</span>.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">(2) Schedule 4, item 11, page 109 (line 9), omit subparagraph 8D(2)(a)(iii).</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="257613" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ghosh</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator Cadell, I'm informed that we've already got a question before the chair, so I don't think you can move it.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300134" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CADELL:</span>
                    </a>  I shan't move it, then; I shall merely withdraw it. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  Thank you. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="300134" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CADELL:</span>
                    </a>  But I want to talk about the reasons that this is important. I think there's a lot of talk about the Murphy report and what has been watered down, which seems to be everything from the Murphy report except one thing, and that is the action on foreign matched lotteries. Even a part of the government response in February said that foreign matched lotteries and the regulation around them should be tightened up so they're part of BetStop—no credit cards—forming part of everything. But someone with the right phone number, somewhere across Australia, got that and said, 'It's not good enough.' So, in between the recommendations, there's been an outright ban. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The only thing that has got harder, from the report to the legislation, is the action on foreign matched lotteries, and it has a real effect. Everyone talks about this as a gambling restriction bill and everything like that, but it's also a case where friends in the right places get the right answers. We have the Lottery Corporation, which runs the lottery—the one, as you would know, that's still owned by the state in every state except Western Australia, so maybe they were on the call—out there saying: 'We're trying to protect Australians. Who knows if they're going to get paid?'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">A question that Senator Hanson-Young was able to ask in the committee was: how do these people know they're going to get paid if there's an opt-out in there? What they forgot was that the current CEO of the Lottery Corporation was the CEO of the Illinois Lottery in America, where some of these things are taken. He had to admit on the stand the next day that he has never not paid anyone, whether they were a corporation, an entity or whatever. He admitted that everyone always gets paid in the American lottery, but it was just an argument that was happy for them. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">They also had to come forward about how they were protecting Australians, but they forgot page 71 of their 2025 annual report, where the Lottery Corporation actually states that they are seeking to increase licence value by using regulations and advocacy to restrict competition such as foreign matched lotteries. They forget to say they were out there saying that this is against newsagents, because the Australian lotteries and newsagents association were saying: 'No. This is against our members. This is bad.' </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I phoned four newsagents in my own electorate—I didn't get the tape measure out, but they were probably the four closest to my home—and I asked them about it. Do you know what they said is the greatest threat to their business? The Lottery Corporation—the people who are advocating to shut these foreign matched lotteries down. I said, 'Why?' It's all to do with your phone and your app. There used to be an app, the Lott app, on your phone, where, if you bought a ticket from your local newsagency and you scanned it, you could see if you were a winner or a loser. You could take it back to the newsagency, you could get your winnings and you could put it on again if you wanted. You could decide not to put it on and instead buy a magazine or a chocolate—invest in your local business. But no. No, no, no. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In this 2025 annual report, it also talks about increasing yield. When you have return to player odds, when you have these things, the only way to increase yield is to lower your costs. How do you lower your costs? You cut out the people that sell your product so you sell it yourself. On the app now, when you scan your ticket, you have to have an account. You never used to need an account. You now have to have an account on your phone with the Lott to scan the ticket you bought in your newsagency. As soon as you scan it, if it's a winner, it will ask, 'Shall we put this money in your account for you?' It will not go back into the lottery. It will not go back to your newsagent. Shall they take the money straightaway and put it on your online account? If you lose, it's 'play again.' </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">They are cutting out the newsagencies. They are cutting out small businesses all across Australia to improve their yield. They came to give testimony that it's all about protecting Australians, but their annual general report, given to the Australian stock exchange, said that it is about increasing the value of their licence and increasing the yield of their business. By coincidence, today they have reported their 2026 figures. Now we know why. Profit's down 22 per cent. Profit's down 22 per cent for the Lottery Corporation, and they're talking about the same things in their annual general report today. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So, the only thing that gets tightened is the only thing that returns profitability, yield and value to one company: the Lottery Corporation. Also, maybe it's done for Western Australia. Who knows! They've had this bad GST thing come out recently. Maybe this is a consequence, that we can't touch Premier Roger Cook's little bay in there. This is why this amendment that I will foreshadow, coming up later, is to make this a level playing field, to allow competition. Without these foreign matched lotteries—and there are lots of other things, the trade lotteries and things like that, which I agree are rorts; get rid of those—there is no competition. There are no options for newsagents to turn to, to sell products, if you eliminate these things. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">If you eliminate competition with the one company that has the licence to sell this across Australia—bear in mind that the Lottery Office has a licence out of the Northern Treasury and employs 50 people. I think the amendment is likely to go down, but I say to Jaclyn and I say to your staff: thank you for putting up this fight for small business, thank you for being strong and thank you for continuing to fight this good fight. I am sorry that we have lost it. I am sorry that you'll be letting your staff go over the next year, and I'm sorry that a big corporation that publishes their greed in their AGM and comes to a Senate hearing and tries to dress it up as something else has won this. Australian small business deserves better. Australians deserve better. That is why my foreshadowed amendment would fix that if it was carried. Let's not forget that the only thing that gets tightened from the Murphy report in this whole legislation is the one thing that delivers special profits to one corporation. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I seek leave to withdraw the amendments in my name on sheet 3971.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Leave granted.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
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            <interjection>
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                <talker>
                  <page.no>101</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ghosh, Sen Varun (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>257613</name.id>
                  <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
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              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>101</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
                  <name.id>300134</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>NATS</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
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              </talk.text>
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            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>101</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>101</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Cadell, Sen Ross</name>
                  <name.id>300134</name.id>
                  <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
                  <party>NATS</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>102</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:00</span>):  The amendment before us, of course, goes to the heart of the Murphy report. All of the expertise and all of the advice to successive governments and to successive parliaments has been that if you want to limit the harm of gambling, particularly to those most vulnerable—young people and those with a gambling illness—you stop the dangerous advertising. Senator McLachlan hit the nail on the head. This isn't about banning gambling. This is about stopping the promotion of a product that is very dangerous and very harmful to a number of Australians, just like we've done with tobacco advertising. When they banned tobacco advertising, they didn't ban tobacco. It was about the advertising. We're not banning gambling. We're following the advice of the experts to stop the ads. By the way, a lot of people who gamble don't like the ads either. People who are happy gambling don't like the ads either. People who play sport think ads have ruined the sport. They've certainly ruined the enjoyment of sitting down and watching your favourite team. </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Of course, what has been put forward tonight, rather than a ban on gambling advertising, is this opt-out register, like a do-not-call register. The government have called it AdStop. I've got a couple of questions to the minister. Minister, how many people are expected to use AdStop? How many Australians does the government predict will use this register? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>102</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:03</span>):  Thanks very much, Senator Hanson-Young, for that question. I don't have a number before me, but I'm happy to see if the department can provide some help on that front. But the point about the opt-out register is that it will be established and administered by ACMA. The focus on that will be ensuring that it is in a prominent place that is displayed on each relevant online platform. It's enforceable by ACMA, and it can impose a penalty if not remedied within 30 days. So it will be prominent and easy to identify, and that will give those who do want to use that the best opportunity to do so.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:04</span>):  To clarify, does the government have those figures, and you just don't have them in your lap? Do they exist? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:04</span>):  I'm trying to establish that. I'll come back to you.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:04</span>):  I'd like to understand how AdStop is going to actually work. What information does an individual have to give the government to be able to register fully, to have no gambling advertising appear on any of their devices? What personal information will be required?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:04</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young, for the question. The wagering opt-out register will provide Australians with a single mechanism to opt out of receiving wagering advertising across online content service providers that elect to show wagering advertising under the new triple-lock rules. Together with other measures, we have created a layered consumer protection framework allowing Australians to opt out either directly through individual platforms or through a single register. The register is expected to be administered by a third-party register operator appointed by ACMA, similar to the operating model used for BetStop, with ACMA overseeing the administration of the program. It would aim to allow consumers to register once for their advertising preference to apply across participating online platforms, rather than requiring them to manage separate advertising preferences on each service. Individuals will remain on the register unless they elect to deregister.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Online content service providers will be required to connect to the register to match registered details against their user accounts and ban wagering advertising to registered individuals. The register is expected to use a limited set of identifying information, primarily email addresses and mobile phone numbers, to enable matching between registered individuals and online content service providers. Detailed operational arrangements, including registration requirements, matching processes, privacy safeguards and platform obligations, will be prescribed in opt-out register rules made by ACMA.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:06</span>):  Do we know what level of personal information the register will require from an Australian citizen? Does it require their phone number? Does it require their email? Does it require their home address? Does it require their full name and date of birth?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:06</span>):  I can only reiterate what I just gave in the answer before. The register is expected to use a limited set of identifying information, primarily email addresses and mobile phone numbers, to enable matching between registered individuals and online content service providers. Detailed operational arrangements, including registration requirements, matching processes, privacy safeguards and platform obligations, will be prescribed in opt-out register rules made by ACMA.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:07</span>):  The register takes the information that the citizen has given them—their name, their email address, their mobile number and maybe or maybe not their date of birth—and then gives those details to match them with 'participating platforms'. Who are those participating platforms?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:07</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young, for the question. That would be determined, I understand, by ACMA in terms of the rules that they're making. Sorry—just to clarify, online content service providers will be the participating platforms.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:08</span>):  I want to understand from the government how widespread this opt-out is, because we've heard from the Liberals and the coalition members that this is going to be across the internet. This is going to be the strongest opt-out scheme. Which websites does the government expect will be included on this register?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>103</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:09</span>):  The simplest way to answer that question would be those websites that want to show wagering ads. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:09</span>):  So any website that wants to have gambling ads on them would have to be registered. And what happens? How on earth do ACMA search the entire internet to make sure they capture every page that wants to have gambling ads? How many people will be employed at ACMA to do this?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:10</span>):  The onus would be on the platforms to check the ACMA regulations.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:10</span>):  So the onus is on X website to tell ACMA that they want to run ads. Who's double-checking that? Where is the accountability? Where is the cop on the beat?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:10</span>):  That is obviously the job for ACMA as the body that will be responsible.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:10</span>):  How many people will be employed by ACMA to consistently scour the internet to make sure there's not a site that's running a gambling ad that hasn't self-registered? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:11</span>):  I don't have a definitive number of staff, other than to point to the decision on the industry funded levy that will be responsible for ensuring that this service does work effectively. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:12</span>):  So we don't know how many staff this is going to take. Are they going to be working 24 hours a day, seven days a week? The internet doesn't turn itself off.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:12</span>):  I've talked through the detail about how this will operate. We expect that they will have the resources they need to administer this. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:12</span>):  How much will it cost to implement this register and to ensure that it is being complied with properly? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:12</span>):  I don't have a number as to how much that will cost. I'd just point to the information I provided before about the cost recovery.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:13</span>):  This is a bit bizarre, isn't it? We are being told to ram through this place tonight what is being held up by your government as a new register under ACMA—a new role for the regulator. You don't know how much it's going to cost. You don't know how many people are going to be required to do the job. You don't even know how far the work is going to be stretched. How on earth can we be expected to vote on this tonight when you can't even tell us how much the job costs? </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:13</span>):  Probably the best example I can give, Senator Hanson-Young, is to look at BetStop. That cost $20 million to build, and the cost recovery levy will allow for the actual costs to be recovered from industry.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>104</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:14</span>):  To be clear, BetStop is a very confined thing. You register yourself on BetStop, and that's that. In order for the department and your government to keep the entire internet clean of gambling ads, you're going to have to be scouring the internet day and night every day of the week. This is how laughable this policy is. You can't explain how it actually works. You can't explain the people power it's going to require. You can't explain how much it's going to cost. It is designed to fail. I put it to you, Minister. This is designed to fail. I'd like to know who makes the call. Who's going to pick up the phone and call Kayo, call news.com, call Instagram, call Facebook, call Domain, call realestate.com, call Uber, call Uber Eats and call the various gaming apps and online and standalone applications? Who is going to be on the phone making sure these companies are doing the right thing? Is that the role of ACMA?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:16</span>):  Yes, absolutely.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:16</span>):  Does the government have a prioritised list of which websites, platforms and applications will be targeted?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:16</span>):  I can only just reiterate what I said before about all those who want to sell gambling advertising would be responsible for meeting this demand.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:16</span>):  Just to be clear, an Australian citizen who doesn't want to be bombarded with gambling advertising needs to send their details, such as their name, their email address, their phone number, to ACMA, as the government agency, and then they will get on the phone and they will call Spotify, will call Kayo, will let news.com know and will let Pornhub know that X John Citizen over here—This is his email address. This is his mobile number. This is potentially his date of birth. Even though he likes Pornhub, he doesn't want to see any gambling ads. Are you really suggesting that that is what public officials are going to be spending their time doing?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:17</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young. I think you have touched on what the key point here is. If Australians are motivated to want to get out and not see these ads, then they'll have the opportunity to do it. We've talked through what the rules will be around who can and can't advertise as a result. I think the other thing that is relevant in this discussion is around what the fines would be as well. There's obviously going to be, if you are doing the wrong thing, an opportunity to be held accountable for that. That would be $1.82 million for corporations per contravention, which can be 1,000 penalty units. There is a substantial incentive there for these companies to do the right thing, and it's both ensuring that Australians have the opportunity to opt out and that the punishment, if they do the wrong thing, is severe, at the same time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:18</span>):  This is putting lipstick on a pig. It's not going to work. You can't even explain it. You don't know how much it's going to cost. To seriously suggest that public officials are going to need to spend their time scouring the internet, from porn sites to news sites to gaming sites to sports sites, and that Australians are going to feel comfortable handing their details over to the government to do that—you know this is a farce. You know this is a farce. Who advised the government that AdStop would work?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:19</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young. It's obviously been the work of government as we've developed this package over recent months. I'd point to the examples of BetStop and the Do Not Call Register as evidence that these sorts of policies can work and be impactful and as the best examples of what this would be based on.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:20</span>):  ACMA doesn't fine anybody, by the way, let alone random websites on the internet that are running gambling advertising and targeting young, vulnerable, impressionable men. Could the minister please explain how the government is going to stop the predatory gambling industry from finding who the weakest customers are?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>105</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:21</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young, for the question. I'd point to the range of reforms that we've pursued through this legislation as being relevant to this. As I mentioned when I first spoke, these are the most substantial reforms around gambling harm that any government has ever taken and the strongest action that any government has ever taken. The reforms include the blackout period for live sports restrictions, which will change blackout rules from five minutes before live sport to 15 minutes before live sport between 5 am and 8:30 pm, which is important; the banning of commissions and financial incentives to staff and affiliates based on customer activity, where a wagering service provider must not provide, offer or arrange any commissions to staff or any third party involved in the referral of provision of online gambling to an individual based on customer activity; the banning of direct marketing of inducements to red-flag customers, which goes to the heart of what you're talking about and which prohibits direct marketing of inducements to Australians who are exhibiting indicators of gambling harm; the banning of direct marketing of inducements for 14 days after the opening of an account; the banning of direct marketing of inducements during a cooling-off period for 90 days; the fact that, following BetStop deregistration, customers are required to opt in to receive future marketing inducements; the move of the start time of the frequency cap on live sports rules for children from 6 am to 5 am to align the bill with the commercial television industry code of practice currently in force; the banning of gambling ads in content principally directed at children; the extension of the live sports restrictions to online platforms; the opt-out prominence, which I've mentioned—the opt-out register; the cost recovery expansion, which is obviously significant and which we've been talking about; and then also the illegal ads on social media.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">So I think you can see, across a whole range of areas, that this package goes to the issues that you've raised. We believe it's substantial, we believe it gets the balance right and we think it's going to be in the best interests of the country.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:23</span>):  That would be true if any of it were actually doable, but we've just discovered that you don't even know how much any of this is going to cost. It's laughable to think it can be implemented. And, of course, this is the gambling industry that has spent years creating a business model that is all about deceiving people and sucking them in. The biggest suckers of all seem to be the Albanese government.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I want to come back to my question about inducements. It feels to me that the government has fundamentally misunderstood the business model of the gambling companies and how they use inducements, because they use inducements to get people addicted. Their whole process is to induce people into gambling more, taking bigger risks and feeling special because they're doing it, even when they're losing: 'Come back for more, come back for more, come back for more.' It is an addictive business plan. That is the point. How on earth do you expect the gambling industry to identify the 'red flag' customers? Do they wait until they're addicted or do they flag them beforehand?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:25</span>):  As we've been upfront on, as has been in the news and as we've seen through the Senate legislative inquiry, we understand that inducements can quickly turn for people and become toxic. It also means that gambling no longer remains fun and goes to an addiction and becomes a problem. The Senate inquiry showed us the most toxic version of inducements, and we condemn those actions in the strongest possible terms. We also dealt with this at our national conference; this was something raised from the floor, and people identified the heightened risk of gambling harm. We included a commitment around measures around inducements at that conference.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Our strengthened measures as part of this include additional protection for consumers at critical points where they risk tipping into the domain of gambling harm. The new additional measures are: banning inducements for 14 days after signing up with a gambling company; banning inducements on all 'red flag' customers; banning inducements for three months after a person deregisters from BetStop; and banning commissions to staff or affiliates based on customer activity. These gambling companies know who to target and who will bet more. These amendments will require them to use that intelligence to identify and protect potentially vulnerable customers. That is the focus of this government and how we intend to ensure that we're doing our best to reduce the harm caused by inducements.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:26</span>):  The gambling companies who have set up an entire business model designed to induce people to make them addicted to their product, to suck them in, to keep them there, to trap them, to groom them like predators—they're the ones you're expecting us to believe should be trusted to red-flag the most vulnerable? Andrew Wallace said this was like putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank; it's a very good description.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281503" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ciccone</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Senator, I remind you to refer to members of the other place by their correct title.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HANSON-YOUNG:</span>
                    </a>  The very brave, courageous and honest Mr Wallace, who had the guts to say out loud what needed to be said, has described this sham of an inducement policy as 'putting Dracula in charge of the blood bank'. How does the government explain to the Australian people why it believes that the gambling companies will do the right thing?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>106</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>281503</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>106</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>106</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:28</span>):  The key point is that the government, not the gambling companies, sets the indicators for red flags. The risk indicators will be evidence based and will take the appropriate time to settle them via legislative instrument. I also point to the fact that many gambling advocates, including Mr Tim Costello, asked us to impose duties on gambling companies to identify customers at risk of gambling. We believe that this is something that will be important, and we believe that this is workable and will make a difference.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:29</span>):  To be fair—and I think it's worth putting on the record here—the Reverend Tim Costello asked the government to ban inducements and asked for the government to have done it three years ago. I don't think it's a good idea for the minister to come in here and verbal the reverend. Does the government believe that free tickets to the football, business class flights, Christmas hampers and tickets to the races, where you get to hang out with the hot models in the birdcage, are appropriate inducements?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:30</span>):  Sorry, Senator Hanson-Young, could you repeat the question?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:30</span>):  Does the government believe that gambling companies offering business class flights; tickets to football games; tickets to the races; special passes to the special marquees at the races, where they get to hang out with the hot models; and Christmas hampers or thousands of dollars in free credit for bets—are any of those appropriate inducements for any customer?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:31</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young. My understanding is that those inducements would not be allowed for any red flagged customers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  So you have to be evicted—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="281503" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Ciccone</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Hang on, Senator Hanson-Young. I will come to you, then I acknowledge that Senator Pocock also has some questions.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>107</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>107</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Ciccone, Sen Raff (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>281503</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:31</span>):  To be clear, the government's position is that those types of predatory inducements are okay for the majority of gamblers.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:32</span>):  Obviously the point I made before is that government, not the gambling companies, would set the indicator for red flags. That is something that, to my understanding, would be done at the appropriate time through a legislative instrument.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:32</span>):  Minister, it's concerning to hear that the ACMA is going to be the one enforcing this. I don't know if you were aware, but Entain broke BetStop rules 500 times, and ACMA took so long to investigate it that they couldn't levy a fine. Then they decided not to take it to court because, I don't know, it was too hard or something. So there are some serious concerns there. But I want to drill into some of the detail of your bill. It allows three ads per hour on television between 5 am and 8.30 pm. What evidence does the government hold that three gambling ads per hour until 8.30 pm including during PG programming—shows like <span style="font-style:italic;">Lego Masters</span>—won't continue to normalise gambling among children?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:33</span>):  Senator Pocock, I understand you put this question at the start as well. The broad objective of this is to reduce exposure. That's why we settled on the three ads per hour as the best way to do that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:33</span>):  So it's about reducing exposure and not actually stopping the normalisation of gambling amongst our children. That's good to know. I'd say most Australians want the government to stop normalising gambling amongst young people, not just reducing exposure to three gambling ads an hour. What evidence do you have that there is a drop in viewership after 8.30 pm in order to justify allowing, as Senator Scarr has talked about so well and passionately, the half-time of State of Origin and all these great sporting events to have gambling ads? How'd you pick 8.30?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:34</span>):  My understanding is that OzTAM data says that child audiences decrease after 8.30.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>107</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:35</span>):  I'm really glad you've mentioned that, because the department's own analysis of OzTAM data shows that, on average, 160,000 children are still watching TV at 8.30 pm—and you can bet the house that on State of Origin night there are multiples of that average of 160,000 children. What is the average viewership of sports programs by children after 8.30 pm according to the government's analysis?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:35</span>):  I don't have that data, sorry.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:35</span>):  Why not? How can you bring legislation to this place, telling us that you are somehow reducing the risk of exposure to children, and then, when I ask you how you've come up with 8.30 pm as a drop-off, say, 'Well, we don't have that data.'</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:36</span>):  As I explained before, Senator Pocock, the OzTAM data says child audiences decrease after 8.30 pm. If we can provide some more information around that, I'm happy to do it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:36</span>):  Minister, just to clarify, it's the government's view that 160,000 children per night, on average, is an acceptable number to be viewing unlimited ads after 8.30 pm?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:36</span>):  So 8.30 pm is the watershed that the broadcasters currently subscribe to under the rules. That was part of the thinking as well. Obviously, the whole point of this, as I mentioned at the start, is the balanced approach that we've taken to these reforms around advertising. We're doing what we can to ensure that we're minimising that harm, and the access that children have to the content as well.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:37</span>):  Thank you for clarifying that, Minister. So getting the balance right is allowing 160,000 Australian children, on any given weeknight, to see an unlimited number of ads when they're watching TV after 8.30 pm. I was wondering if I could get you on the record confirming that these reforms are not about stopping normalisation among Australian children; they're about reducing exposure?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:37</span>):  In my view, they're about doing both. That's substantially what we've tried to achieve, through this package, and I think that's what we're all striving to do. It's about getting that balance right around advertising and ensuring that we're protecting vulnerable people at the same time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:38</span>):  So, Minister, what evidence is there that three ads per hour will stop the normalisation of gambling amongst Australian children?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:38</span>):  As I said, we think this gets the balance right in ensuring that fewer ads will be available. The frequency cap works alongside other restrictions, like the sport restrictions, the ban on children programming and the ban on radio advertising during school drop-off and pick-up times. If you look at the range of measures that we've done, there has been a focus on ensuring there will be fewer ads coming into contact with young people.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>108</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:39</span>):  Minister, many people take offence when the government just makes stuff up. There is no evidence that three ads per hour will stop the normalisation of gambling amongst young people. That is not somehow getting the balance right; that's just the government saying, 'We're aiming to do that, but we have no evidence to do that.' In fact, Professor Samantha Thomas and her colleagues from Deakin University submitted to the inquiry that there is zero evidence of which they are aware that supports three ads per hour as a safe or proportionate number of ads for children. We wouldn't allow three tobacco ads for children. They cited an ABC investigation which found that children 10 to 17 years watch TV in far greater numbers during evening prime time compared to the morning or afternoon slots. So children are likely to see quite a few ads before 8.30 pm and then directly afterwards, when they are still up. In relation to Friday night footy, which I know is a concern for a lot of parents—they love watching Friday night footy, but they hate these damn ads and they expected they'd have a government that would actually listen to them and get rid of the ads—there is published, peer reviewed evidence which shows children will stay up after 8.30 pm to watch an entire game. Minister, on what basis did your government make this decision that children go to bed or stop watching TV at 8.30 pm? And how can you seriously be telling us that this is somehow getting the balance right, if there is no evidence to back you up on that?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:41</span>):  The overall goal was to reduce advertising, and that's what this bill does. It does it across, as I mentioned before, a whole range of areas, including TV, advertising, radio and live sport. There will be no ads, for instance, during play on Friday night football. There'll also be an ad ban on advertising on jerseys and on the naming of stadiums at the same time. I think, when you look at the whole of the package, it does deliver on that aim of ensuring that we are reducing the amount of advertising. That is exactly what the bill does.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:41</span>):  Minister, you just told me that your aim was also to stop the normalisation of gambling amongst young people. Is your aim to reduce the number of ads on television, or is it to stop the normalisation of gambling amongst young Australians? Maybe you can talk us through what your aims are with this legislation. Every time we raise something, you say, 'Well, that's also an aim,' but then you keep coming back to this thing about just reducing the number of ads, despite there being no evidence to suggest that'll actually work.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:42</span>):  Senator Pocock, I'm happy to talk you through what the government wants to achieve through these bits of legislation. As I've mentioned repeatedly, this is the strongest ever action that any government has taken to tackle the harms of gambling. As part of our extensive consultation, we've listened to a range of views across the community and we've also ensured that we are taking action to do that.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I've mentioned what we've done in regard to inducements and the work that's been happening there. I've also mentioned the amendments that we're making to identify and protect those potentially vulnerable customers.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">On advertisements, there's an expectation that what you see on TV should match the experience online. To meet this, we'll enshrine the current protections through the Commercial Television Industry Code of Practice into law and extend them to online streaming services. This means restrictions on gambling ads online will match those for broadcast, with the cap starting at 5 am. The rules that are in place for advertising during children's shows will also be enshrined in law. This was always the intention of the bill, but it is now in black and white in the legislation. We'll also extend the blackout of gambling ads before live sport from five to 15 minutes.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">For services subject to the triple-lock system, the opt-out choice must be displayed prominently so people can make an informed choice. We are providing further choice for Australians by ensuring the wagering opt-out register, a one-stop shop where people can choose not to see gambling ads and have it applied across their online services.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">These reforms are delivering real action to protect Australians from gambling harm. The amendments make the reforms stronger where Australians need protection most while ensuring that new rules are practical, enforceable and delivering. Overall and to sum up, we're protecting children from the harms of gambling, we're reducing the saturation of targeted wagering advertising and we're making those who profit from gambling pay for the protections to help keep people safe.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:44</span>):  It doesn't seem like the government's very clear about the aims. We hear these talking points that you read out, but it doesn't seem like there's much of an aim there. Maybe I'll read out what Minister Wells said the aims of these reforms were in her press release:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">The Bill delivers on the Albanese Government's commitment to break the connection between gambling and sport, minimising children's exposure to wagering advertising and stopping the saturation of wagering ads on radio, TV and online.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Could you tell the Senate how this bill breaks the connection between gambling and sport when we will see gambling ads on sport after 8.30 pm, we'll see gambling ads during sport replays and we'll see gambling ads during sport if Australian teams are playing in world cups overnight and millions of Australians are potentially waking up to cheer on their favourite team. The NRL and AFL will continue to receive commissions on bets placed on those sports. How does this reform break the connection between gambling and sport? That's a huge claim.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:46</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock, for the question. I think there are a number of key areas where this applies. The ban 15 minutes before live sport and during live play was substantial and will make a significant difference. There's also the ban on advertising on jerseys and the ban on the naming of stadiums. Across that range of areas—live sport, jerseys and stadium-naming rights—there are three key ways where we're breaking that connection between sport.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>109</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:46</span>):  Minister, this sounds a lot less like a break and more like a hairline fracture with sport where we'll get rid of some of the links but we're still going to flood you with ads after 8.30 pm during sport. If you're watching a replay, unlucky for you—you're going to see gambling ads. If you're waking up at midnight to watch the Socceroos, the Matildas or the Rugby World Cup, you're going to see gambling ads. How can you seriously claim that you're breaking the link between gambling and sport when you have a patchy ban that Peta Murphy warned would not work?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:47</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock. I disagree with your assessment of the reforms. I think they are meaningful. They will make a difference. They'll be impactful on the sporting codes as a result, and I think that's the evidence of how significant it is in terms of the impact it will have on them when it comes to their sponsorships, when it comes to naming rights and also when it comes to the fact that they will not be able to advertise during live sporting games.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:47</span>):  Back on the area of inducements, could the minister please explain what indicators will be used to create a red flag.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:48</span>):  Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young. All I can do is reiterate the points I made before. The government will set the indicators for red flags, not the gambling companies. The risk indicators will be evidence based, and we'll take the appropriate time to settle them via a legislative instrument. We think it is important that we hold the gambling companies to account on these matters.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:48</span>):  So we are to understand that your government is acting on one part of inducements but you can't give us the details of what those indicators are—that is, who cannot be hassled, cannot be groomed and cannot be preyed upon by the gambling industry. You haven't decided that yet. You haven't worked that out yet. Is it going to be based on age? Is it going to be based on whether someone's prefrontal cortex is fully developed? Is it going to be based on their income? On their disposable income? Is it going to be based on whether they have a house or whether they're a renter? Do they have a mortgage? Is it going to be based on whether they have children and dependants? Is it going to be based on whether they even have a job? Surely the government must have some idea who they believe should not be preyed upon and groomed by the gambling industry. If you can't give us an idea of who you think should be protected, then it really begs the question: is anyone going to be?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:50</span>):  To provide a bit more of an example that might be helpful, Sarah Hanson-Young, that is being prepared—escalating wagering expenditure, the number of deposits into a licensed interactive wagering service account within a session, wagering at unusual hours, failed or declined deposits into a licensed interactive wagering service account, removal or relaxation of gambling minimisation measures, and any other indicators determined that would be made as part of the instrument. That's to give you some examples of what would be looked at. That is actually in the bill.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:51</span>):  All of those indicators, Minister, are indicators that somebody is already addicted—that the gambling companies have already got to them, that they have already been groomed, that they have already been preyed upon and that life is not good. What an absolute failure. The gambling companies can groom and prey on young men, young women and people who can't afford to be gambling their weekly earnings, and the only indicators that they should be flagged for not being induced, coached in or groomed any further are those that show they have already been preyed upon and are already addicted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">It fundamentally misunderstands the business model of the gambling companies. They use inducements to groom gamblers to make them into addicts. Once they're addicts, maybe they will get a red flag. It beggars belief that the government tonight is asking the Australian people to believe that this gambling bill and these measures are worthy of any sort of praise. No wonder the late Peta Murphy's own husband has called it for what it is. It falls well short of anything that's required.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:53</span>):  The list I read out before is some of the specifics that are contained in the bill itself. Further indicators will be made by the minister following consultation. So it's not an exhaustive list.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>110</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
                <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ZN4" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HENDERSON</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Victoria</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">18:53</span>):  Senator Hanson-Young is right to raise serious concerns about the predatory inducements used by wagering companies, because, until the provisions that are now in this bill, there were no laws at all which stopped this insidious, revolting, disgusting behaviour. And what some of the wagering companies have been doing is repulsive—chasing massive losses incurred by those who are addicted to gambling, watching patterns of behaviour and targeting those people. I have even heard of cases where people were red-flagged and they were still being targeted.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">However, with the amendments brought forward by the coalition, agreed by the government, for the very first time, Senator Hanson-Young, these practices—assuming this bill is passed—will be unlawful. I do reject the way that you're characterising the provisions that have been now passed in the other place, because what's important to understand is that the first obligation, when it comes to red-flagging individuals at risk of gambling harm, is that a licensed interactive-wagering service provider must monitor the customer activity of individuals who use the licensed interactive-wagering service, to identify individuals that may reasonably be considered to be at risk of gambling related harm. Now that is a positive obligation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  No-one trusts the gambling companies. No-one trusts them.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ZN4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HENDERSON:</span>
                    </a>  You raise the issue of trust, and you have got a good basis, Senator Hanson-Young—and I'll take the interjection—to raise the issue of trust. There are now civil penalties of a thousand penalty units, which will apply if there is a breach of that obligation—$364,000 on an individual and $1.82 million for a corporation. So the failure to monitor customer activity of individuals considered to be at risk of gambling related harm will, for the first time, be a breach of the law and give rise to a very, very significant fine if that provision is breached.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">As the minister has indicated, there is an unlimited number of bases on which the gambling companies must identify whether a customer is at risk. I agree—I mean, even if someone is red-flagged, we know of many cases where wagering companies have dodged this obligation and imposed more harm on these people who are gambling and who cannot stop. There are a number of indicators, including wagering expenditure; someone betting at three in the morning, which should raise alarm bells; someone betting very frequently; someone making frequent deposits into their account; where there have been failed or declined deposits; where there's been a removal or relaxation of gambling minimisation measures—they are indicators that someone is at risk. But that's not a conclusive list.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">That's why it is important that the minister, by way of a legislative instrument, has the ability to add to that list—to add further indicators for the purposes of ensuring that the gambling companies are doing everything to red-flag and identify those at risk of harm. So, when we hear the stories about wagering companies talking about frameworks and how they've got all these processes in place, the coalition doesn't trust them either. That's why these predatory inducements, if this bill is passed, will be unlawful. There are very, very significant fines that now will be applied if the breach has occurred.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I also just want to raise concerns in relation to the way that Senator Hanson-Young has reflected on the wagering advertising opt-out register. What's very important about the opt-out register, Senator Hanson-Young—through you, Chair—is that this is giving Australians choice.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  Senator Hanson-Young?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  On a point of order, Chair, I'm actually quite enjoying Senator Henderson's answers to questions, but I am wondering whether she's sitting on the wrong side of the chamber.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  What is your point of order, Senator Hanson-Young? Clearly, there was not a point of order.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="ZN4" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator HENDERSON:</span>
                    </a>  Can I tell you, Senator Hanson-Young—through you, Chair—that this bill was deficient. For the first time, if this bill is passed, the predatory inducements and the predation on gamblers at risk that we have seen over and over again by wagering companies in this country will be unlawful. We've been very vocal, including through the Senate inquiry, about the fact that this bill, as the government presented it to the parliament, was not good enough. But I am proud that we worked together, in relation to supporting a Senate inquiry, to shine a light on what is going on. To give credit where credit is due, Senator Hanson-Young, this is a very significant step forward in holding wagering companies to account.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I do want to quickly reflect on the concerns you've raised about the wagering advertising opt-out register, because this is a very important initiative to give Australians choice. They don't have to use it. They don't have to sign up to the register if they don't want to see wagering ads online—and, of course, they need to comply and log in and be an adult. Whether it's Instagram, whether it's news.com.au or whatever the online platform is, they can go to that individual online platform and opt out. They don't have to use the register. If Australians want one place to go, a one-stop shop, to ensure that they never see a wagering ad online in this country again, they just need to sign up once.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Again, for an online content service provider, advertising wagering content to an individual who is on the register—if they contravene that that particular obligation, there will be very significant penalties up to a maximum of $364,000 for an individual and $1.82 million for a corporation. Australians have a choice. They can either do it through the individual platforms or they can go to the register. For families or individuals—Australians who do not want to see gambling ads online in this country—this initiative, brought forward by the coalition and agreed to by the government, is a very important choice for Australians to make.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I am disappointed with the way that this has been demonised. Of course, it was a former coalition government which legislated BetStop, which is a very important initiative. If they can do it for BetStop, they can do it for AdStop in the same way. We were not happy with the fact that there was a burden imposed on Australians of having to dig down a tunnel every time they wanted to opt out. There's also now an amendment, passed by the parliament in the House—in the other place—that the opt-out option must be prominent.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">This gives Australians a choice. This is a very important initiative. I would ask you to be a bit more gracious, Senator Hanson-Young, in relation to the important way that this register can give Australians the ability to click once, to go to the register and to never again see another wagering ad online.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
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                  <page.no>111</page.no>
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                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
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                  <page.no>111</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
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                <talker>
                  <page.no>111</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
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              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>111</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
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                </talker>
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              </talk.text>
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            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>111</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
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                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
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              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>111</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Henderson, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
                  <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
                  <party>LP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:04</span>):  Minister—or minister Henderson; credit where credit's due!—I've got a question about this flagging of customers with risk indicators. Isn't it the case right now that wagering companies under the Northern Territory rules where all these companies are registered, are already supposed to manage flagged customers with risk indicators?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:04</span>):  I just want to table a correction to the revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Interactive Gambling Amendment (Gambling Reform) Bill 2026. Thanks. Senator Pocock, your question would be better put to the Northern Territory government.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:05</span>):  It is a bit of a concern that you don't even know that. Maybe I'll answer for you—yes, they are. Under the NT rules, these wagering companies have an obligation to flag customers with risk indicators. I'm interested why you now want ACMA to oversee that if it's already happening, and, given you haven't put up a national regulator as recommended by the Murphy report, are you happy with the regulation happening in the NT?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:06</span>):  This will be a new system at the Commonwealth level that will ensure consistency for gambling companies. We believe it is important reform and that it will make a difference, which is why we are happy to support it and bring it forward.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:06</span>):  It almost sounds like you're making the case for a national regulator here. After all the evidence that the Murphy inquiry heard, that's why they recommended one. Will the gambling industry have any input into the development of your risk indicators?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:06</span>):  I mentioned that I talked through what was in the bill and that the minister, by legislative instrument, may determine indicators for other purposes and that there would be ongoing consultation with that. I would expect that the gambling companies would be part of that consultation. We make no apologies for wanting to be tough on them and ensure that they're being held to account as part of this legislative reform.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>112</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:07</span>):  Why would you allow the gambling companies to help develop the risk indicators? Surely, you're going to the experts?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Chisholm:</span>
                    </a>  That's not what I said.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DAVID POCOCK:</span>
                    </a>  You just said that you were sure that they probably would be involved in the consultation.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span class="HPS-OfficeInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR:</span>  Order, senators. Please make sure you go through the chair in terms of your remarks.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator DAVID POCOCK:</span>
                    </a>  So the government's going to develop risk indicators to flag customers, and they're going to talk to the industry, which is currently meant to be flagging customers with risk indicators but just isn't doing it because they don't have to because we have a useless, ineffective, under-resourced regulator in the NT with no full-time staff. And the Albanese government thinks this is just cool and normal. Of course, you'd get the gambling companies to come up with the risk indicators, because they're the experts! They're the experts in gambling harm. They're the ones who have been denying and then delaying and then influencing Prime Minister Albanese. I'm keen to get to some of the questions about where he's getting information in a bit. Consultation means that they have a seat at the table. It means that you are literally developing risk indicators with the very industry that you're trying to protect those people from. How are we meant to accept that you're serious about this, if this is what you're telling us you're going to do with risk indicators?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>112</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                  <name.id>39801</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
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              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>112</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                  <name.id>256136</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>IND</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
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              </talk.text>
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            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>112</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">TEMPORARY CHAIR, The</name>
                  <name.id>10000</name.id>
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
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              </talk.text>
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            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>112</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                  <name.id>256136</name.id>
                  <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                  <party>IND</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>113</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:08</span>):  What is absolutely in no doubt is that this law strengthens the role that ACMA can play, which is the appropriate regulator at the national level. The gambling companies are the ones that have the data, so of course we would want to talk to them about what data they have. So, yes, as I said before, we would consult with them about how this is implemented and to ensure that it does work effectively. As I've said repeatedly, we make no apologies for wanting to hold the gambling companies to account on this. It is a tough new provision, one that we believe will be impactful and will make a difference.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>113</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:09</span>):  On a number of occasions, the Prime Minister has been quoted as saying that, if we implement the Murphy report in full, then we would see more people betting with illegal offshore operators, a claim that has only ever been made by the gambling industry. I'll read you a quick part of a transcript so you've got some context. Sabra Lane said: </span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">A full ban is what Labor MP Peta Murphy pushed for. She died last year. She headed an inquiry into gambling. The Committee handed down a bipartisan report finding that gambling is a health hazard, insidious and needed to be banned. Why won't the government honour her legacy with a full ban?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">The Prime Minister said:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">Well what we're doing is making sure that we get these reforms right. There is such a thing as the internet, there is offshore gambling as well, which is therefore difficult to regulate and has implications across a range of areas as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Minister, what evidence has the Prime Minister been relying on to make such claims?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>113</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:10</span>):  I think when you look at the history of these matters and how impactful they've been—it's always hard to respond to a question like that, when you haven't seen the transcript and seen the context of the interview, which is often important in these matters. But we know that there has been a level of offshore gambling and that, when that happens, no Australian benefits from that. In fact, for illegal gambling companies, there's no taxation, there's no regulation and punters may not even get their money back. So this bill is tough on illegal gambling. We make no apologies for that. We think it is something that is a threat to the Australian industry. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>113</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:11</span>):  But, Minister, surely you concede that Australians are concerned when they hear the Prime Minister essentially parroting industry talking points, and there is no researcher in the country that can point to research that can justify that. And then we hear on Radio National, who provide a great service in this country, an interview with the founder of Paddy Power, Stewart Kenny. When he was asked about this argument that the Prime Minister and Responsible Wagering Australia have been putting forward that has been absolutely panned by researchers, he said, and I'll quote him because I think it's worth getting it into <span style="font-style:italic;">Hansard</span>: 'I used that argument all the time when I was lobbying. I was the main lobbyist in Ireland. I knew all the politicians. That was the first line I always used. As an industry we've been using that argument for 20, 30, 40 years. But look at Spain. They put in a blanket ban and there was virtually no pick-up in the illegal offshore market. This is a load of baloney. I used to use it all the time.' Minister, is the government misleading the Australian people with a load of baloney and giving us talking points that really aren't backed up by any evidence?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>113</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:12</span>):  No, I don't believe that's the case, Senator Pocock, and it's always very difficult to respond to questions like that when you haven't seen the transcript and the words and the context in which those claims have been made. But illegal onshore gambling is a serious concern. That's why this bill strengthens ACMA powers to disrupt illegal operators and block access to unlawful services. Australians should not be denied important consumer protections simply because illegal operators ignore Australian law. This bill strengthens protections in the regulated market while also making it harder for illegal operators to target Australians at the same time. So we obviously believe, as part of these important reforms, that targeting illegal offshore companies is an important part of that, and I do believe it is of concern to many Australians as well. </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>114</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:13</span>):  But, Minister, targeting illegal offshore gambling, which is illegal and should be targeted, is very different to the Prime Minister of this country getting up and saying, 'If we stop gambling ads, if we stop your kids seeing gambling ads, people are going to go to illegal offshore operators.' There's just no evidence for that. The Albanese government is just parroting the line from industry. And for extra measure—because we heard this during the Senate inquiry, obviously from the gambling companies—I asked Curtin University to fact-check the illegal offshore gambling claims made by Responsible Wagering Australia and passed on to the Australian people on our national broadcaster by the Prime Minister.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Here's what they said: 'None of the witnesses disclosed that the H2 Gambling Capital research was commissioned by Responsible Wagering Australia itself. The central argument of the industry case was presented to the committee as independent market monitoring when it was actually research paid for by the industry peak body—with no methodology—before the inquiry. The French and Polish studies relied on in RWA's submission concern illegal online casino markets, a product class already prohibited in Australia. In one case, in a country that prohibits online casinos entirely—and the UN figure is a global estimate of illegal betting that says nothing about the marginal effect of Australian advertising settings—on H2's own timeline, the offshore market doubled between 2019 and 2024, a period of saturation advertising in Australia.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Peak gambling ads—if Aussies think back to 2019 to 2024, that is when gambling ads hit the roof. That's when I think Aussies just had a gutful. We were seeing them everywhere. It was during that time that, according to this research, it doubled. I'll go back and quote: 'Advertising is demonstrably not what contains the offshore market; enforcement is.' So, sure, crack down—enforce them. But this comes to the denial then delay that we've seen from the Albanese government and, ultimately, lands on what experts say and what I think the community says and what a handful of senators will say are ineffective reforms.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I understand that most in the major parties think that this is a great thing for the country. I'm wondering if you can put on the record whether it is still the government's view, the Prime Minister's view, that implementing the Murphy report would cause people to shift to the illegal offshore market.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>114</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:16</span>):  What I can do is guarantee that I think the best part of this bill is that we're doing both of these tasks in terms of restricting wagering advertising in Australia—which is important and something that a lot of people identified as wanting to happen—and cracking down on offshore illegal gambling services as well. I think that is something where we are taking both issues head-on when it comes to advertising and restricting the nature of advertising and the amount of advertising that we'd see in Australia and also cracking down on illegal gambling services at the same time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>114</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:17</span>):  Minister, I want to follow up, because part of the strategy, it seems, from the gambling lobby post Murphy, was to, obviously, lobby very hard but then really lean on sports and free-to-air TV and say that, rather than protecting Australians, 'We need to get the balance right.'</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Part of the strategy, it seemed, was to say, 'Don't look at us. Look over there. Look at pokies, look at lotto, look at all these other things. Don't worry about us; we're a small part of the market. We're not to be regulated first. The real harm is happening over there.' I was very troubled when I heard, and I know many others were troubled when they heard, the Prime Minister say in the House in 2024:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">We know, when we look at where the harmful gambling comes from, that almost 70 per cent of that harmful gambling is actually poker machines. More than or around 15 per cent off the top of my head—it's about that figure—comes from lotteries and lotto and those tickets as well.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">When the Senate asked where these mystery statistics came from, the Deputy Prime Minister, who was Acting Prime Minister at the time, said, 'The Prime Minister was relying on a recollection of published material.' I asked every researcher that my office could contact, 'Where does this come from—can you find it?' No-one could find it, but it sounds suspiciously similar to comments attributed to Mr V'landys in the <span style="font-style:italic;">Sydney Morning Herald</span>, which read:</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Small">V'landys argued that independent statistics show that out of 100 people who sought help from a problem gambling hotline, 70 were due to poker machines, 15 due to lotteries, eight due to racing, four due to sport and three due to casinos.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Apparently, when the ABC contacted the NRL to find out where these stats came from, the NRL refused to respond, just as they refused to respond to questions on notice from the Senate and they refused to turn up to the Senate inquiry. Now that a couple of years have passed since these remarks, do you or any of the officials know if there's any more clarity about where the PM got those figures?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:19</span>):  Thanks, Senator Pocock. No, I'm unable to help you on that, but I do know that the legislation before us tonight will be really important. I think that there are a lot of Australians out there that are keen to see this legislation pass because it will make a difference in terms of the impact that it will have for Australians, who are sick of seeing the proliferation of gambling ads that we have seen over recent years. As I've mentioned consistently, we believe that this bill gets that balance right in terms of what we're trying to achieve, and we urge the Senate to pass it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:20</span>):  So, Minister, just for the record, are lotteries more harmful than wagering products?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:20</span>):  I might be able to provide some helpful information, Senator Pocock. My understanding is that part of those numbers is based on a Queensland Government Statistician's Office report from Queensland Treasury around gambling numbers—the share of gambling numbers is based off that. So I presume, from that, it would be based off Queensland numbers—nationwide numbers is what I'm advised.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:21</span>):  Please could you table that for the Senate.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:21</span>):  I'll see if we can find access to it and provide it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:21</span>):  I'd just like to ask the minister how the gambling ads currently on the AFL website will be blocked.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:22</span>):  My understanding, Senator Hanson-Young, is they'd be required to be triple locked.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:22</span>):  Right now, if you go onto the AFL website, right at the top of the banner are the odds—Sportsbet. It's there for everyone to see. What will the AFL now have to do under these rules? What is it that the AFL website will require customers or anyone going to their website to do?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:22</span>):  If they wanted to see gambling ads, they'd have to be age assured—</span>
                </p>
                <a href="I0U" type="GeneralIInterjecting">
                  <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                    <span class="HPS-Normal">
                      <span class="HPS-GeneralIInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting</span>—</span>
                  </p>
                </a>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CHISHOLM:</span>
                    </a>  Just let me finish. They'd have to be age assured, registered and not opted out—to see gambling ads.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>115</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</name>
                  <name.id />
                  <electorate />
                  <party />
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>115</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                  <name.id>39801</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:23</span>):  What I'm asking is: how will the AFL website change, or what will change, under this legislation? Right now, anyone, of any age, from anywhere in the country—you log onto the AFL website, and there are gambling ads there.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:23</span>):  My understanding is that the AFL website would have to provide the option of the triple-lock system for all users.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:24</span>):  At the moment, you can access the AFL website to work out what the ladder looks like, what the line-up's going to be. You don't have to log in. You don't have to have an account with the AFL. It's a publicly available website. Are you suggesting that everyone, every sports fan in the country, young or old, child or teenager or adult, is now going to have to create an account and log in in order to see the details of their favourite team's next game?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>115</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:24</span>):  My understanding is that if the AFL wanted to show wagering advertising, they would have to offer a triple-lock system. If they cannot offer a triple-lock system, they cannot show wagering ads under these reforms. I believe that's a good thing.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:25</span>):  In order to have the triple lock, there has to be an account. I just want to be really clear. The AFL will not be able to have any gambling ads on their website as it is today.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:25</span>):  Unless they offer a triple lock.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:25</span>):  I'd like to ask how all of this is going to be monitored. What is the auditing process for all of these various new laws? Does the government believe that the NT gambling commission is a viable option for keeping watch over what gambling companies around the country are doing?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:26</span>):  I'll leave commentary on the Northern Territory regulator to the Northern Territory government. ACMA will monitor and enforce these laws. The laws also give ACMA the capacity to raise revenue from the gambling companies, which can be used to resource the enforcement should it be needed.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:26</span>):  I know it's an uncomfortable question for the minister. Gambling companies around the country are regulated, registered and licensed through the NT commission because it's the only one in the country. We've called for a national regulator, and Peta Murphy called for a national regulator. Your government has said no. All of the experts have said we need a national regulator. You've said no. The reason these gambling companies get to trade and exist is that they are registered and regulated via the NT. I would like to know whether the Albanese government believes the NT commission is sufficient.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:27</span>):  I can only reiterate what I said before. We're talking about Commonwealth law. We're in the federal parliament. We do believe that this strengthens the hand of ACMA as the body responsible for these laws federally. We've got the power to regulate that in line with our constitutional power, and the laws empower ACMA, who can impose additional requirements. So we believe that this will be significant. It will give ACMA power to do more. And we also think that it's important that the gambling companies are the ones who are paying to help ensure that ACMA can do this regulatory job effectively.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:28</span>):  I might try and help the minister out here. ACMA's job, under your laws that you're putting through today, is to oversee the advertising, the communications element. But ACMA is not the body that registers the gambling company. So ACMA can have a whole list of fines—I doubt they will, by the way; they can't seem to fine anyone. Let's just say ACMA do find Sportsbet in breach of the law and fine them, ACMA can't do anything to restrict Sportsbet's licence. Maybe they'd fine them 10 times, a hundred times or a thousand times. But they can't shut the gambling company down. They've got no power to regulate what the gambling company actually does. That is all left to the NT commission. I want to know whether the government thinks the NT commission is sufficient for holding the gambling companies to account. It has got nothing to do with ACMA.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:29</span>):  I'll leave commentary on the Northern Territory commission to the Northern Territory parliament, as they're the ones responsible for its administration. But what I can say is that this bill provides ACMA with a full suite of enforcement tools for each offence under the legislation. This gives ACMA flexibility in its regulatory posture and in light of the breadth of organisations captured by these measures. We believe they will have the power to take action that will be meaningful and will ensure that the corporations are held to account, including fines of up to $1.82 million for corporations per contravention.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:30</span>):  ACMA has no power to strip a gambling company of their licence. Is that true or not?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>116</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:31</span>):  That is my understanding—that they are licensed by states and territories. But I would reiterate the strong provisions under the bill in terms of the opportunity for ACMA to use the full suite of enforcement tools, including the fine that I mentioned before of $1.82 million for corporations per contravention. We make no apologies for wanting to be tough on gambling companies and holding them to account as part of this legislation.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:31</span>):  So the government is setting up a regime where they're asking the parliament to pass a law and they're telling the Australian people these are the toughest laws ever on gambling, and yet the Commonwealth has no power over the licence of a gambling company? What on earth happens when these gambling companies continue to contravene and break the law? You have riddled yourselves useless, impotent. Why hasn't the government moved on the recommendation for a national regulator? Why has the government refused to give itself the power to hold the gambling companies to account and to be able to remove their licences?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:32</span>):  We obviously have a different approach as part of this bill, but we believe it will be incredibly effective in terms of holding these betting companies to account. We've talked about the power that we have to impose heavy penalties. That is set out in this bill, which I've talked about—the potential fines of $1.82 million for corporations per contravention. So we do believe that this does set out and give ACMA the powers to hold those companies to account, recognising that they're licensed in the states and territories.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:33</span>):  I just want to be clear here. This is what the government is setting itself up for: to promise the Australian people that you'll put in place new laws to restrict the actions of a gambling company but, if the gambling company does not obey those laws, there's nothing you can do about it. This is like fining people for speeding day after day after day, drink-driving and speeding—they might even crash and kill somebody—and you've got no power to put them in jail. This government's bill is useless. It is useless. You want us to believe in fining these gambling companies a couple of million dollars for breaching some advertising law when they're banking $104 billion off the losses of Australians?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">Do you know how much money the gambling industry spends on advertising? It's $600 million a year, and you think a little slap on the wrist in the form of a $1½ million fine is going to be the bogeyman in the corner that's holding them to account. It beggars belief that the government thinks that the parliament should take you seriously. It is quite clear that this entire piece of legislation is designed to look like you're doing something while doing nothing. It is riddled with holes, loopholes and carve-outs. It is designed to fail. There is a reason that the gambling industry is happy for it to pass. Because it's not going to change the dial one iota.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:36</span>):  You're completely wrong, Senator Hanson-Young. I've listened to your commentary on this matter for a couple of hours now, which has been dripping in cynicism the whole time and full of innuendo about the motivations of a government that's trying to do the right thing in this matter. We absolutely stand by these laws that are before the parliament now as being laws that will work and make a meaningful difference to the Australian people.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We know that for a lot of years there have been a lot of Australians who've wanted to see action. They don't want to see the proliferation of ads from the gambling industry that we've seen on TV. This deals with that. They don't want to see children impacted by these ads at the same time. We've reduced the risk that they will go before children at the same time. So you can add all the cynicism that you want, but this is an important bit of reform that will make a meaningful difference for many Australians, and it does hold the gambling companies to account at the same time.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">We absolutely stand by these laws. We know that they will make a meaningful difference. We've done the hard work of ensuring that we get the details right so that we get the balance right between reducing harm for those people that are going to be impacted while ensuring that the industry can continue at the same time. We think that's important. We think we've got that. We've also got the ability for ACMA to ensure that they can enforce these provisions and have a strong hand in terms of determining fines that help hold those gambling companies to account.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:37</span>):  Why hasn't the Minister for Communications stood up and done a press conference since this dog's breakfast of a deal was done?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>117</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:37</span>):  I'm sure the Minister for Communications has been very busy and focused on getting this legislation through the parliament. I also believe the news bargaining legislation is before the Reps, and it will hopefully be here before the Senate tomorrow as well, so Minister Wells has a big agenda when it comes to this portfolio. I'm sure at the appropriate time we'll be happy to do media.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:38</span>):  Why has no-one from the government stood up and taken questions outside of this particular—you are the only person, you are the only minister, who's had to take any questions on this dog's breakfast since it was announced. It says everything, doesn't it?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:38</span>):  Thanks for the high praise, Senator Hanson-Young.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="e5x" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">The TEMPORARY CHAIR </span>
                    </a>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">(</span>
                    <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Polley</span>
                    <span class="HPS-GeneralBold">):</span>  Do we have any other speakers? No? We have before us on sheet—I'm sorry, Senator Hanson-Young.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>118</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Polley, Sen Helen (The TEMPORARY CHAIR)</name>
                  <name.id>e5x</name.id>
                  <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:39</span>):  That's okay. I was just giving some of my colleagues an opportunity to speak if they wished to. I'd like to ask the government if they believe that the public broadcasters should be able to show gambling ads?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:40</span>):  My understanding is that the ABC does not show ads of any type but that the SBS do show ads, as they operate on a level playing field with other broadcasters.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>AG</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Manager of Australian Greens Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:40</span>):  Does the government believe that Australian taxpayers should be funding a public broadcaster that advertises a dangerous product like gambling?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:40</span>):  I can say that it would be appropriate for the SBS to be subject to the same rules as its competitors. In terms of the reforms that apply to broadcasters, that would be the case.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">McLachlan, Sen Andrew</name>
                <name.id>287062</name.id>
                <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="287062" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator McLACHLAN</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">South Australia</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:41</span>):  This is not a question directed to the minister; it's just a reflection on the debate in committee at this point in time. I know my calls to oppose these bills will fall on deaf ears because the die is cast, but I think it's a lost opportunity. I'm not convinced in any way by the argument that something is better than nothing. This is, as I said, a real lost opportunity to regulate.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I ask senators to reflect: why does the industry need the ability to have incentives? Why does the industry need to advertise? It's because its business model is predatory and designed to facilitate addiction, which is why I'm voting against these bills. I don't think these bills seek to regulate; I think they seek to facilitate. This industry is founded on the darkest practices known to corporate Australia. Tonight you stand with either the faith based organisations that live and work in the community, based on compassion and love, or the faceless board members that are counting their cash flows and their investor returns. That, for me, is the simpler choice this evening—the moral choice. When I vote on the third reading, I'll have one thing on my mind—the children of Australia.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:42</span>):  Minister, can you explain to me the logic of the first 25 minutes of State of Origin, with the kick-off at 8.05 pm, being covered by gambling advertisement restrictions, but those restrictions being lifted for the subsequent 55 minutes of the match and half-time?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:43</span>):  Senator Scarr, I don't know if you were here when Senator David Pocock went to some of these matters around free TV or broadcast TV issues. I point out that, during live sport, the change would be that there would be no advertising during live sport. That is a significant change that we think will be impactful.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">I mentioned the 8.30 timeslot because that is when the OzTAM data says the number of children decline. I understand the point you're making about State of Origin, being a Queenslander—a lot of people across the states are staying up and watching that. But we believe that this will see a reduced number of ads, as a result, across the whole board. That will be impactful and will ensure that fewer children have to come into contact with or visualise gambling ads as a result.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>118</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:44</span>):  Minister, do you accept the proposition that there are going to be hundreds of thousands of Australian children who are going to be exposed to gambling advertisements during the State of Origin after 8.30 pm?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:44</span>):  Thanks, Senator Scarr. I think the key point with this is that under this legislation—and we've always been very clear that this is about striking a balance, which we're doing in this legislation by ensuring that there will be fewer ads that people see as a result of that. That will no doubt be the case. That's delivered as part of this. Anyone watching a sporting game won't see them during live coverage. We think that's important. The 15 minutes on either side are also important. I think you've got to look at the whole package to ensure that there is less access to advertising as a result of these changes.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:45</span>):  Thank you, Minister. I have considered the whole package, and I've considered it very carefully. I also note that you're not the minister with responsibility for this portfolio, and I appreciate that you haven't had the carriage of this matter. You say there won't be any ads during live sport, but the fact is—isn't it—that after 8.30 pm there will be unlimited ads during scheduled breaks and non-scheduled breaks of, for example, the State of Origin.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:46</span>):  Yes, that's essentially correct, Senator Scarr, but the point I was making before, which is applicable, is that this needs to be seen across the whole package and how it applies across the whole industry—obviously, not on jerseys and not on stadium-naming rights. Those other elements are really important. If you were watching a game currently, you'd see that throughout the whole match. I think, across the whole range of reforms—be it in advertising, be it in restrictions on stadiums, be it in restrictions on jerseys, or be it in the 15 minutes before a game—there will be less ads as a result of the changes that we're talking about. I think that's important, and I think that'll be welcomed by Australians.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:46</span>):  Minister, I think it would be more welcomed by Australians if there were no gambling ads during the State of Origin. That's my strong view. I think it would be welcomed by more Australians if there were no ads during Friday night football, as Senator Pocock referred to. Queensland has secured the Olympic Games in 2032. The swimming finals will be on after 8.30 pm at night. Will there be an opportunity for gambling companies to have unlimited ads during the Olympic Games finals held after 8.30 pm?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:47</span>):  It's getting a little bit technical in terms of how it applies. My understanding is that the Olympic Games would be covered as live sport. It would depend on when the scheduled breaks were as part of that.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:47</span>):  Minister, assuming that a final is held after 8.30 pm in relation to, for example, swimming—and Australians are passionate about swimming—is there an opportunity for unlimited gambling ads during scheduled breaks of those finals?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:48</span>):  It's getting into hypothetical territory, but—</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="I0U" type="MemberInterjecting">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberInterjecting">Senator Hanson-Young:</span>
                    </a>  This is what the whole thing is about.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberContinuation">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberContinuation">Senator CHISHOLM:</span>
                    </a>  I'm answering the question if you'll let me, Senator Hanson-Young. Dealing with the Olympics, who knows what time these things would be on? But, if they were outside the 8.30 time period, there would be no restrictions on the number of ads.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
            <interjection>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>119</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Hanson-Young, Sen Sarah</name>
                  <name.id>I0U</name.id>
                  <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
                  <party>AG</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </interjection>
            <continue>
              <talk.start>
                <talker>
                  <page.no>119</page.no>
                  <time.stamp />
                  <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                  <name.id>39801</name.id>
                  <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                  <party>ALP</party>
                  <in.gov />
                  <first.speech />
                </talker>
              </talk.start>
              <talk.text>
              </talk.text>
            </continue>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:48</span>):  So then it necessarily flows that Australian children who are watching their Olympic champion swim in, for example, swimming finals—we know it extends to any sporting events—after 8.30 pm will be exposed during both scheduled breaks and unscheduled breaks to potentially unlimited gambling advertisements. That's correct, isn't it?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:49</span>):  That would be the case, but, as I've been reiterating as we've discussed some of these, you do need to look at these reforms in the overall sense. They're restricting the number of ads that are on during the day from 5 am till 8.30. Obviously, there are the changes that we've made with regard to radio at school drop-off times, the changes that we've made during live sport and the 15 minutes either side, the restrictions on jersey advertising and also stadium naming rights. I think, when you look at these across the whole range of measures that we're taking, they are significant changes. They are going to reduce the exposure, and that's the aim of this bill and that's the aim of the government.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>119</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:50</span>):  Minister, you referred to the 15 minutes either side of a sporting event, but it's the case, isn't it, that, if the sporting event starts after 8.30, then it's irrelevant because, whether or not it's 15 minutes before or 15 minutes after the end, there are no gambling restrictions after 8.30?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:50</span>):  Apologies, Senator Scarr. It is only the 15 minutes before the live sporting event, not the 15 minutes after. The other thing I'd point to in terms of these changes is the statutory review that will come into place—the opportunity to look at these matters and how they've been impactful in three years time.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:51</span>):  In relation to the statutory review, why is it that the statutory review is going to take place after three years and not, say, after two years?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:51</span>):  I believe it's just that the government believes that three years was the appropriate time to get the right amount of data to ensure that we're making informed decisions.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:51</span>):  How do the provisions in the legislation ensure that any statutory review is entirely independent, that the statutory review will be open to public submissions, that the public submissions will also be made public and that the people who are appointed to undertake the statutory review have the relevant expertise?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:52</span>):  I can provide a bit of detail on the statutory review in three years time. We will include a statutory review mechanism to assess the operation and effectiveness of the following parts of the bill: part 7C, restrictions on wagering advertising; part 7D, restrictions on inducements; and part 7E, the wagering advertising opt-out register. As minister, Minister Wells would be required to initiate the review as soon as practicable after three years from the commencement of the act. The review process must include public consultation to ensure stakeholder and community input is considered.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In terms of who would do the review, the legislation does not prescribe which entity must conduct the review. The minister will determine the most appropriate reviewer or review body at the time. This could be the department or an independent reviewer. The minister is then required to table the report in both houses of parliament within 15 days of receiving it.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:53</span>):  Minister, I note that you said the reviewer could be the department. I think this chamber needs to reflect on that. We just had confirmation from the minister that this statutory review, which is meant to be this wonderful check and balance in relation to the effectiveness of these provisions, could actually be undertaken by someone within the department—an internal review. We don't know who it will be, but presumably they're marking the government's own homework. Given this package that has been delivered up to this chamber, what confidence can we have as a chamber that that statutory review will be sufficiently independent, will be sufficiently rigorous and will be conducted by people with the relevant expertise?</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">In this regard, I note the amendment foreshadowed by Senator Pocock which calls upon a panel of reviewers with the relevant expertise, in terms of gambling harm, with respect to the marketing devices used by the gambling industry and with respect to their impact on children. One of the benefits of the review which has been undertaken in relation to this legislation is that we have a pretty good record of all the wonderful experts who have undertaken research in this space over many, many years. But we have no comfort whatsoever from the review mechanism which has been proposed that (a) it will be independent (b) it will be conducted by relevant experts or (c) the public submissions will actually be published so that the public has a right to see what submissions are made, including from the gambling industry. So what comfort can you provide, Minister, that there will be a rigorous, independent statutory review undertaken by appropriate experts? And why would the minister—I'm not talking about you here, Senator Chisholm; I'm talking about Minister Wells—possibly consider that a statutory review undertaken by the department would be appropriate?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:55</span>):  I can make clear that the government's intention is that it will be a statutory reviewer. It will not be internal; it would be done by an appropriate external person. Any persons who undertake the review would be required to meet integrity standards, including declaring any conflicts of interest, which would be standard practice.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>120</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:55</span>):  In relation to the opt-out register, Minister, do you think the opt-out register will be up and running by the time of the statutory review?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business </span><span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:56</span>):  We believe that the global opt-out register would take about 12 months, but we will have the platforms having to make available the opt-out service from 1 January next year.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Scarr, Sen Paul</name>
                <name.id>282997</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>LP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="282997" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator SCARR</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:56</span>):  Can you just explain to me the difference—you might need to take advice on this—in relation to the platforms being available from 1 January but it taking approximately 12 months for the register to be operational. I'm not going to hold you to every month. What's the distinction that's being made there?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:56</span>):  From 1 January, if a platform wanted to have gambling advertising, they'd have to have the triple lock option available on their website. It will take us about 12 months to build the opt-out system that we are implementing as part of this.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:57</span>):  I only have a few questions left, and a couple on the ACMA. Your own impact analysis said that this partial ban that you've gone with will be more expensive and more time consuming to enforce because it's patchy, and that a full gambling ad ban, as recommended by the Murphy report, would be cheaper to enforce and have more benefit for Australians. The ACMA and the department told us that the ACMA would be getting zero extra staff for ongoing compliance. They may get some for implementation, but then that will fade away from the forward estimates back to 12 staff to oversee everything that you've been telling us that they're going to do. Minister, is it still the case that the ACMA will be getting zero staff to manage ongoing compliance with the government's patchy ban? Just as a reminder of the need for staffing, this is a regulator that failed to investigate a single breach of BetStop within 12 months and so couldn't fine Entain for 500 breaches of BetStop.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:58</span>):  My understanding is the cost recovery levy will cover ACMA costs for staff, BetStop, inducements and also opt-out requests at the same time. My understanding is that the important point here is that the levy to industry will help us meet that need.</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Pocock, Sen David</name>
                <name.id>256136</name.id>
                <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
                <party>IND</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="256136" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator DAVID POCOCK</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Australian Capital Territory</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Independent ACT Whip</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:59</span>):  Minister, will the cost recovery levy also cover compliance with the ad ban? Is that what you're saying?</span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
          <speech>
            <talk.start>
              <talker>
                <page.no>121</page.no>
                <time.stamp />
                <name role="metadata">Chisholm, Sen Anthony</name>
                <name.id>39801</name.id>
                <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
                <party>ALP</party>
                <in.gov />
                <first.speech />
              </talker>
            </talk.start>
            <talk.text>
              <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <a href="39801" type="MemberSpeech">
                      <span class="HPS-MemberSpeech">Senator CHISHOLM</span>
                    </a> (<span class="HPS-Electorate">Queensland</span>—<span class="HPS-MinisterialTitles">Assistant Minister for Regional Development, Assistant Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Assistant Minister for Resources and Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate</span>) (<span class="HPS-Time">19:59</span>):  That's absorbed.</span>
                </p>
                <p class="HPS-Normal" style="text-align:center;direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;&#xA;          text-indent:0pt;&#xA;        ">
                  <span class="HPS-Normal">
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">
                    </span>
                    <span style="font-style:italic;">The Senate transcript was published up to 20:00. The remainder of the transcript will be published progressively as it is completed.</span>
                  </span>
                </p>
              </body>
            </talk.text>
          </speech>
        </subdebate.2>
      </subdebate.1>
    </debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>