<?xml version="1.0"?>
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2026-10-12</date>
    <parliament.no>3</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"/>
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Monday, 12 October 2026</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 10:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line">&#xA0;</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARTY OFFICE HOLDERS</title>
        <page.no>2</page.no>
        <type>PARTY OFFICE HOLDERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Greens</title>
          <page.no>2</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I advise the Senate the new Australian Greens leadership positions are as follows: Senator Shoebridge is the Leader of the Australian Greens. Senator Hodgins-May is Deputy Leader of the Australian Greens. Senator Hanson-Young remains as manager of business, I remain as whip and Senator Allman-Payne remains as deputy whip.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKim. On behalf of the chamber, congratulations to Senator Shoebridge and Senator Hodgins-May.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>2</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>2</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r7501" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>2</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>2</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>According to the statement of reasons for the government amendments on sheet HG147, the amendment (3) 'will change the destination of money appropriated, which will increase a burden in relation to an appropriation'. This reflects the advice to the government from the parliamentary counsel, but the Clerk's view is that this does not accord with precedents of the Senate. The third paragraph of section 53 of the Constitution provides that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people.</para></quote>
<para>This has relevantly been taken to mean that the Senate may not amend a bill to increase the proposed expenditure under a standing appropriation. However, the amendment in question does not have that effect.</para>
<para>The advice of the Clerk, which is set out on the amendment sheet, is that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The amendment broadens the purposes for which higher education providers may spend the equity component of their needs-based funding grants. It does not change the provisions determining the amount of those grants or the total proposed expenditure under the standing appropriation. The fact that the grants may be used to support a larger class of persons does not itself increase the amount payable by the Commonwealth.</para></quote>
<para>This is consistent with the approach the Senate took in relation to the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility Bill 2016 and the Veterans' Entitlements, Treatment and Support (Simplification and Harmonisation) Bill 2024. I have considered the views of the parliamentary counsel and the Clerk and consider that the Clerk's view is consistent with the precedents of the Senate. I therefore rule that the amendment should be framed as an amendment, not a request.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 9 (line 27), at the end of subsection 30-45(1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; (d) student demand.</para></quote>
<para>The Greens have worked really hard with Minister Clare's office on this bill and have made this bill much better than it was with the 13 amendments that have been agreed to by the government, which we have pushed. The bill is now focused on student needs and student choice much more than it was before, and it allows much less intervention now by the minister than it did before&#x2014;and that is a good thing. The amendments that the government has agreed to have been amendments that unis and students and their unions have really wanted, and that is the reason we have worked so hard to make them happen. We have an agreement now with the government.</para>
<para>This particular amendment goes to student demand. As the bill originally was, nothing required the minister or ATEC to consider student demand when making allocation decisions. For a bill that is supposedly all about growth, for ATEC to not even turn its mind to or consider student demand is quite absurd. You cannot force students to attend institutions chosen by the minister or ATEC. They simply won't go. This amendment ensures that ATEC must consider the demand from students when making allocations. Without this amendment, student choice would have been sidelined in the managed growth system, with the government attempting to shift students around in order to fill funding gaps that their own policies have created. Higher education should be staff- and student-led, not led by the minister or ATEC-led, and I'm pleased that the government will support the Greens amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Faruqi for this amendment and confirm the government's support.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the Australian Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4046 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (line 23), omit "at the time the person enrols in the unit,".</para></quote>
<para>This amendment is about the timing of low socioeconomic status&#x2014;or SES&#x2014;applications. Again, for a bill that the Albanese government has marketed as being all about equity, an understanding of how disadvantage operates and impacts on student lives was sorely missing from this bill. Universities, staff and academics all criticised the profound inequity in the bill, especially when calculating the applicability of needs based funding and a student's low SES at the time the person enrolled in the unit. This means that the low-SES student living in a regional area who moves to the inner city for university will apparently no longer be disadvantaged.</para>
<para>This perverse position should really never have made it into the bill and into parliament. This Greens amendment will remove the words 'at the time the person enrols in the unit,' that precedes 'the person is a low SES student'. The government has, appropriately, agreed to support this amendment to ensure that low-SES regional students who move for university are not excluded from much-needed support. This will make the bill more sensible and more equitable and will remove any ambiguity around who is a low-SES student and who isn't just because of where they live and where they might have moved from.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move Greens amendments on sheet 4055 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 6 (line 18) to page 7 (line 28), omit subsection 30-20, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30-20 Requirements for allocations to Table A providers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Number of places that must be allocated</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A *Table A provider's *domestic student profile for a year must be equal to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) if at any time during the year, a mission based compact under Division 2 of Part 3 of the *ATEC Act was in force between the *ATEC and the provider&#x2014;the sum of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the *core student load for the provider for the year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the *additional growth allocation (if any) for the provider for the year; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) otherwise&#x2014;the core student load for the provider for the year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Places for particular higher education courses</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The allocation must not specify that a number of the Commonwealth supported places in the provider's *domestic student profile are for a particular *higher education course or kind of higher education course.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 8 (lines 27 to 32), section 30-30 to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 5, page 12 (lines 24 and 25), omit "other than *designated higher education courses (see subsection (2))".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 5, page 12 (lines 26 and 27), omit paragraph 33-5(1)(b).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 5, page 13 (lines 2 and 3), omit "<inline font-style="italic">other than designated higher education courses</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, item 5, page 13 (line 5), omit "other than *designated higher education courses".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 1, item 5, page 14 (line 13) to page 16 (line 29), omit subsections 33-5(3) to (7), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) If the *number of Commonwealth supported places provided by the provider in *higher education courses during the year exceeds the provider's *domestic student profile for the year, then the amount for those courses is the amount worked out by multiplying:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the provider's *domestic student profile for the year; by</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the provider's *average cluster rate for those courses for the year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Schedule 1, item 6, page 25 (lines 15 and 16), omit "other than *designated higher education courses".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Schedule 1, item 6, page 25 (line 17), omit paragraph 33-15(2)(b).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Schedule 1, item 10, page 26 (lines 1 to 3), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Schedule 1, item 12, page 26 (lines 7 and 8), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Schedule 1, item 31, page 35 (lines 1 and 2), omit the definition of "<inline font-style="italic">designated courses profile</inline>".</para></quote>
<para>These amendments remove the ability for the minister to set specific courses as designated higher education courses. With this power, the minister would have been able to set the Commonwealth supported place allocations to zero for a specific degree. Ministers change, and any future minister could do that. Frankly, it is not hard to imagine a world under One Nation or the coalition where the minister decides that art degrees are too woke and that no student can study them. No minister should be able to tell students what they can and cannot study. We saw what the coalition government did with Job-ready Graduates. They made art degrees so expensive that students either don't do them or come out with tens of thousands of dollars of debt if they do deign to study them. These Greens amendments remove every reference to designated higher education courses and strip the minister of this power. These amendments, I am happy to report, will be supported by the government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These are amendments which, out of an abundance of caution, we will oppose. It is a finely balanced issue. We oppose these amendments because they go to one of the central budgetary risks in this bill that we identified when it was first introduced. One of the main changes in this legislation is a change to the way domestic places are funded. Currently, unis are given a bucket of money and they decide the types of places. That changes under this bill. Unis are given a number of places, but not all places cost the same. That creates a budgetary risk if providers decide to deliver high-cost places. This designated places regime gives the minister one way to control that risk because ministers can designate the number of places that can be given in particular types of courses, and there might be other reasons to exercise that power in the national interest. Right now, the designated places regime is not in use, but it might be necessary in the future if we're to bring the budget back to balance under this Labor government's mess.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The first question is that amendments (1), (3) to (9) and (12) be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">A division having been called and the bells being rung&#x2014;</inline></para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan is seeking leave to cancel the division.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could we have the coalition's position recorded as opposed to the amendments.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That will be recorded.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've still got one question to put. The question remains that, in schedule 1, section 30-30 in item 2 and items 10 and 12 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>():&#xA0;&#xA0;by leave&#x2014;In lieu of a division, we ask to have our position recorded.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd now like to move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4110:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 16, page 29 (lines 20 to 29), omit section 33-39, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">33-39 Default deemed allocation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A higher education provider's <inline font-style="italic">default deemed allocation</inline> for a year is 105% of the provider's *domestic student profile for the year (rounded up to the nearest whole number).</para></quote>
<para>This amendment goes to overenrolment. One of the concerns raised by many universities was the bill's introduction of rigid enrolment caps where universities enrol over their allocation. This cap is problematic both because of the implications of student choice and the number of enrolments and because of its lack of flexibility. Professor Andrew Norton's analysis found that, if this cap were in place in 2025, for instance, it would have permitted only half the overenrolments, at the cost of more than 20,000 places across the system. That would have been 20,000 students potentially cut out of higher education. This amendment expands the overenrolment buffer to 105 per cent of a provider's domestic student profile and allows for flexibility for universities to respond to student demand. I welcome the government's support of this important amendment to protect student choice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition does not support this amendment. It is an improvement on the bill, but it is a weak second best to the alternative we propose, which creates more choice for students, better flexibility for providers and better outcomes for the taxpayers and helps the smaller providers. This is an amendment which does not address the perverse incentive that sees universities punished if they improve their retention rate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I seek to have our position recorded in lieu of a division.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move Greens amendments (1) to (3) on sheet 4113:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 24, page 33 (line 8), omit "2031", substitute "2030".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (line 24), omit "2031", substitute "2030".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (line 25), omit "<inline font-style="italic">review</inline>", substitute "<inline font-style="italic">evaluation</inline>".</para></quote>
<para>These are quite simple amendments. They bring forward the commencement date of the evaluation of the operation of the managed growth funding system for domestic students and the needs based funding part of the bill to before 2030 instead of 2031. This allows for a more timely independent evaluation of the new system. Again, I'm happy to report that the government is supporting these amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll indicate that we will be supporting amendments on sheets 4113, 4114 and 4115. These are technical amendments which make minor improvements to the bill in relation to the timing of decisions.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4114:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 16, page 29 (line 14), after "consecutive years", insert "ending immediately".</para></quote>
<para>This is also to provide certainty. The reference year for the definition of overenrolled places will now be based on the year immediately prior to the reference year. This means that the calculation for a provider's overenrolled places will be based on the year prior and based on their most recent growth instead of the minister being allowed to pick and choose which year of a provider's history to calculate overenrolments against. The minister and the government have seen sense with this amendment, and I appreciate that they have.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4115:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 4 (line 14), omit "1 July", substitute "1 June".</para></quote>
<para>There has been very loud disapproval for the total allocation pool determination deadline being set so late, at 1 July, in this bill. Consistent with the sector's calls, this amendment changes the deadline to 1 June. This amendment will give universities at least an extra month of planning to recruit and to make offers, giving certainty to both providers and students. Again, as I said, we have made an agreement with the government that they will support this amendment.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 4116 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 43 (line 8), after "that class", insert ", which must not be less than 1".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 45 (line 24), after "Grants Guidelines", insert ", which must not be less than 0.5".</para></quote>
<para>Yet another problematic aspect of the bill is that it allows an education minister to quash all needs based funding with a flick of their pen. The section these amendments address is the power for the minister to set the equity support amount provided to a university, which they could set at $0. You cannot say that you are providing needs based funding but leave it open to make this funding $0. The Greens will not let any government, whether it's this one or any future one, set needs based funding to $0. The amendments ensure that the equity modifier amount in the bill is at least one and the regional modifier amount can be set to no lower than 0.5. Again, the government is in agreement with these amendments, and I thank them for coming to the same position as the Greens.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will not oppose these amendments. That's because we support the regions. The regional funding guarantee fixes the loopholes in the regional component of equity funding, and that is very consistent with our support for the regions.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4117:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (lines 2 to 17), omit section 39-65, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-65 Conditions on grants</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A higher education provider receives a grant under this Part on the following conditions:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) that the provider complies with section 39-70 (providers to use amounts for certain purposes);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) that the provider meets the <inline font-style="italic">[</inline><inline font-style="italic">*]</inline>quality and accountability requirements;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the conditions (if any) specified in the Needs-based Funding Grants Guidelines.</para></quote>
<para>The Albanese government, like it seems they do with every single bill that they put in parliament, once again have tried to give themselves unprecedented ministerial power in this bill to intervene in how universities operate and how they work. Every single stakeholder that we heard from who provided evidence at the inquiry was so adamantly opposed to the minister imposing conditions, which are unlimited in subject matter and which could be provider specific, on funding grants. This could have seen a minister impose conditions, for instance, prohibiting protests on campus, which is a basic right that we have in our democracy, or even imposing the controversial IHRA definition that conflates antisemitism with the criticism of Israel and many more things. This amendment removes these powers from the minister. There is no reasonable justification for a minister to have these powers, and no deal could have been done without the removal of these excessive powers. I am relieved that the government has agreed to support this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will not oppose this amendment. It is consistent with the concerns that we flagged on day one of this legislation about the bill centralising too many powers in the hands of the minister, and we support it on that basis.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move Greens amendments (1), (2), (3), (4), (5) and (6) on sheet 4118 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 22, page 31 (line 24), omit "Providers", substitute "Medical course providers".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 22, page 31 (lines 25 to 27), omit subsection 36-65(1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section applies in relation to a higher education provider that has a *medical courses profile for a year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) The Minister may, in writing, determine conditions that a specified higher education provider must comply with in relation to *medical courses provided by the provider, for the purposes of this Division.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 22, page 32 (line 2), omit "subsection (1)", substitute "subsection (1A)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 22, page 32 (line 18), omit "subsection (1)", substitute "subsection (1A)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 22, page 32 (line 20), omit "subsection (1)", substitute "subsection (1A)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, item 37, page 35 (before line 22), before the definition of<inline font-style="italic"> medical courses profile</inline>, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">medical courses</inline> has the meaning given by section 30-70.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments work in conjunction with the amendment on sheet 4117 because, without these amendments, the minister would still be able to have a set of powers to impose on providers when administrating medical courses, as exists now. With these amendments, the minister will have restrained powers. This is to allow for the continuation of incentives to grow medical student numbers and completions and First Nations medical student places and to address regional shortages as well. We know what a difficult situation it is that medical students are in already. So this will at least make life a little bit easier. With the government's help, again, these amendments will hopefully pass the chamber today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition does not support these amendments, these second-best amendments. They do not do what the sector asks, which is to remove the centralisation of power from the hands of the minister entirely. Instead, they leave that power in place as it relates to medical places. We do not think that that is necessary. This chamber should vote for a more superior amendment, which is either Senator David Pocock's amendment or ours, which essentially does the same thing.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;in lieu of a division, I ask that our position be recorded.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 4119 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 9 (line 16), after "account", insert "and publish".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 9 (line 29), at the end of section 30-45, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Statement to be published</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The *ATEC must, as soon as practicable after the ATEC has allocated the total number of Commonwealth supported places specified in a *total allocation pool determination for a year, publish on the ATEC's website a summary of the matters the ATEC took into account when allocating those places for the year.</para></quote>
<para>This bill and, in general, the Albanese government seem to be allergic to transparency. Staff, students and universities do not accept that student allocation decisions can be made behind closed doors, never to see the light of day, with no publication of reasons or information about those decisions and how they were arrived at. These amendments insert a critical transparency measure requiring ATEC to publish the considerations it takes into account when allocating Commonwealth supported places for each and every year. The government has decided that it will now support this transparency measure being inserted into the bill, which will make a really significant difference to universities in planning for the future and best providing for their students.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will not oppose these amendments. They are transparency amendments in the same vein as the amendments that we proposed for sections 30 to 50 of the HESA, which were actually specifically asked for by the sector, and we are not opposed to that transparency. The difference between these amendments, which the Greens are bringing forward, and the coalition's amendment on sheet 4036 is that the coalition requires transparency about allocation decisions at provider level and, unfortunately, these don't. Ours does more to provide clarity and prevent patronage; the Greens amendments don't do that. So, for all those that support these amendments and not the coalition's amendment, frankly, it's up to you to explain why you did not adopt the amendment that the sector specifically asked for, which provides greater transparency, and why you decided instead for this vague system-level publication requirement.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I now move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4120:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (line 27), omit "a course", substitute "courses".</para></quote>
<para>This amendment removes the ability for the minister to specify kinds of courses and providers for international student allocation. In another interventionist attack, the bill sought to give the minister the ability to allocate international students to specific individual providers and specific courses. This is an entirely unacceptable intrusion into the autonomy of universities and yet another attack on international students by the Albanese government. The Albanese government has tried again and again to use education policy as migration policy and has failed again and again. But they do not give up their attempts. It's not enough for them to dog whistle on international students and really dehumanise international students; they keep trying to use education policy to crack down on them as well. Migration policy does not belong in an education bill. International students are not cash cows and, now, scapegoats. They really aren't. You need to have some more respect&#x2014;respect for the students who come here and contribute so much to society.</para>
<para>It is absolutely shameful that the three parties&#x2014;Labor, Liberal and One Nation&#x2014;are now using international students over and over as scapegoats, blaming them for every war. That is their fault, because they haven't addressed the housing crisis. They haven't addressed the cost-of-living crisis. It is absolutely shameful that the tens of thousands of students who choose Australia for study are being treated so poorly and so badly. They will stop coming. You will ruin the international education reputation that Australia used to have. Your cruelty to international students knows no bounds. We have made this change, at least in this education bill, and we will not stop there. We will not stop there, because the Greens will not allow you to keep treating international students the way that you are.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This amendment clarifies that a minister cannot set limits at the course level. This reflects our policy intent that only the ATEC is empowered to issue allocations and only at the provider level. The government will be supporting this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition does not support this amendment. We said earlier that the migration powers in this bill are important and should not be in any way eroded. Let me be clear that we do not think that this amendment has any real effect as a matter of interpretation, but it sends a signal in relation to migration that we simply do not agree with, and, therefore, we will oppose it on that basis.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the Australian Greens amendment (1) on sheet 4120 be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I'm happy to just have our position recorded in lieu of a division. We oppose.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move government amendments (1) to (6) on sheet HG147 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 4 (after line 10), after subsection 30-5(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) The total number of Commonwealth supported places specified for a year must be equal to or greater than the total number specified in the most recent total allocation pool determination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 4 (lines 24 to 29), omit paragraph 30-5(4)(b), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the year is 2028 or a later year&#x2014;the number of Commonwealth supported places specified in the most recent total allocation pool determination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (lines 21 to 26), omit subsection 39-70(2), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Total equity component</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The higher education provider must spend an amount of the grant that is equal to or greater than the *total equity component for the provider for the year on the following activities:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) activities that are primarily for the purposes of supporting *eligible equity students to access, participate in and complete *eligible equity courses;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) activities that are primarily for the purposes of supporting persons mentioned in paragraph 39-25(1)(b) to access eligible equity courses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 67, page 51 (after line 12), at the end of subsection 41-45(2), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: For variation and revocation, see subsection 33(3) of the <inline font-style="italic">Acts Interpretation Act 1901</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 67, page 51 (lines 13 to 14), omit subsection 41-45(3), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A determination under subsection (2) for a year:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) must be made before the start of that year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) may only be varied before the end of that year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, item 67, page 51 (lines 15 to 16), omit subsection 41-45(4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PARLIAMENTARY COUNSEL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026 HG147</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement of reasons: why certain amendments should be moved as requests</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 53 of the Constitution is as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Powers of the Houses in respect of legislation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">53. Proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys, or imposing taxation, shall not originate in the Senate. But a proposed law shall not be taken to appropriate revenue or moneys, or to impose taxation, by reason only of its containing provisions for the imposition or appropriation of fines or other pecuniary penalties, or for the demand or payment or appropriation of fees for licences, or fees for services under the proposed law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate may not amend proposed laws imposing taxation, or proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual services of the Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate may at any stage return to the House of Representatives any proposed law which the Senate may not amend, requesting, by message, the omission or amendment of any items or provisions therein. And the House of Representatives may, if it thinks fit, make any of such omissions or amendments, with or without modifications.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Except as provided in this section, the Senate shall have equal power with the House of Representatives in respect of all proposed laws.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (3)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The effect of this amendment is to allow for higher education providers who will receive a certain grant under the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003 </inline>to spend part of the grant in relation to a larger class of persons. This will change the destination of money appropriated, which will increase a burden in relation to an appropriation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Bill 2026 &#xA0;&#xA0;&#xA0; . SHEET HG147</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement by the Clerk of the Senate pursuant&#xA0;&#xA0;&#xA0;.to the order of the Senate of 26 June 2000</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (3)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to the statement of reasons for the government amendments on sheet HG147, amendment (3) is covered by section 53 of the Constitution because it "will change the destination of money appropriated, which will increase a burden in relation to an appropriation". This does not accord with the precedents of the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The third paragraph of section 53 provides that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This has relevantly been taken to mean that the Senate may not amend a bill to increase the proposed expenditure under a standing appropriation. The amendment in question does not have that effect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendment broadens the purposes for which higher education providers may spend the equity component of their needs-based funding grants. It does not change the provisions determining the amount of those grants or the total proposed expenditure under the standing appropriation. The fact that the grants may be used to support a larger class of persons does not itself increase the amount payable by the Commonwealth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is therefore in accordance with the precedents of the Senate for the amendment to be treated as an amendment, rather than a request. This is the same approach that the Senate took in relation to the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility Bill 2016 and the Veterans' Entitlements, Treatment and Support (Simplification and Harmonisation) Bill 2024.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will not oppose these amendments on this sheet. Amendment (3) of sheet HG147 is about supporting more kids in specified cohorts to go to universities. As senators would have seen, the coalition has circulated amendments specifically to ensure that. In addition to the funding for regional delivery, regional students are also included as an equity cohort. As I have said, and the coalition has said, we will always stand up for the regions. We know the challenges that kids from the regions face when it comes to going to universities. When the time comes to vote for our amendments, we'll see whether the government also agrees. Amendments (4) to (6) are largely technical and governance measures. They are about the timing of a decision and the requirements for it to be in writing. The implications, as we understand them, are likely to be minimal in practice and may assist to improve certainty in the sector, so we will not oppose them.</para>
<para>That brings me to amendments (1) and (2). The government will tell you that this is all about locking in growth. It's about putting a floor under the total allocation pool for Commonwealth supported places. Well, let me say a few words about that. What we've been asked to do here is to prohibit precisely what the government did in 2025, and it's doing it again now here in 2026. In the evidence before the committee, which I'm a member of, it was clear from pre-eminent experts on higher education, like Professor Mark Warburton, Professor Andrew Norton and Emeritus Professor Clive Smallman, that the government ripped $1 billion out of funding from university places in 2025 and 2026. Let me say that again: at the same time as they were talking about managed growth and opening the doors to opportunity, the Labor Party ripped $1 billion out of funding for Commonwealth supported places. That means that fewer Australian young people are able to go to uni.</para>
<para>It's quite an amazing level of hypocrisy, and it was hidden from the Australian people. Not only did the government cut $1 billion from Commonwealth supported places over this year and the last; they didn't put it in as a budget measure that they knew would be scrutinised by the Australian people. Instead, they buried it in estimates variations. This is all spelled out in detail and in writing in the evidence provided to the Senate committee from Professor Warburton. So let me be clear for everyone in this chamber, for those watching on and for <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> for posterity: Labor ripped $1 billion out of funding for Commonwealth supported places in 2025 and 2026 and then tried to hide it. For those who want to check, it's laid out in detail not only in Professor Warburton's submission but also on page 4 of his answers to questions on notice from Senator Scarr. Let me read again what Professor Warburton's submission said so that it's written here as the record in this debate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the 2024-25 Budget, there was sufficient funding for 2025 and 2026 to fully fund more CSPs than delivered in 2024. Since that time, funding for the 2025 and 2026 years has been reduced by more than $1 billion (around $550m less for 2025 and $470m less for 2026).</para></quote>
<para>Then, at the bottom of page 4 in his answers to questions on notice from Senator Scarr, it spells it out like this: it says that the reduction in funding across 2025 and 2026 is $1,025,520,000. Let's be very clear: there was a cut of $551,701,000 in 2025, and there was a cut of $473,819,000 in 2026. Together, this is a cut of more than $1 billion. That is bombshell evidence, and the answer goes on to explain how the government chose not to put these cuts in its budget and instead presented them as estimates variations, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Most of the downward variation in estimated CGS expenditure for CSPs appears to have occurred as estimates variations, rather than as 'measures' identified in Budget documentation.</para></quote>
<para>So let's be clear about what happened here in relation to items 1 and 2. The Labor Party cut $1 billion out of funding to send Australian kids to university. Those cuts started last year and they're continuing right now. Then they came into this chamber and moved an amendment saying that governments shouldn't be allowed to do that. Well, do you know what? That's not even a question of policy or financial management. It's about integrity. It's about whether you can believe what that lot over there have to say.</para>
<para>Let me also say this: any group or body that wants to be seen as credibly advancing the interests of the sector must, from time to time, be prepared to stand up for the sector even where it is politically inconvenient to this government. That means going beyond the unbalanced and tired old complaints about Job-ready Graduates, where the government has given political licence to criticise even while it adopts its own Job-ready Graduates program as part of its own policy; it means calling out major cuts to university places that Labor has made; and it means things like acknowledging that this government cut $2.3 billion out of research through the Australian Economic Accelerator. It means acknowledging that this government terminated the Trailblazer Universities Program, which generated over $1 billion in research investment in this country, and it means acknowledging that the budget allocation to Australia's research capacity program is now $920 million lower than it was when the coalition left office. It means acknowledging that the government has ripped $1 billion out of Australian student places in the last two years and it means acknowledging that, when it comes to the number of places for Australian students on current funding projections, the government will not surpass the coalition 2021 figures until 2029.</para>
<para>Let me spell that out. In 2021 there were 796,000 places against the census count of only 25.4 million people. Based on Professor Warburton's analysis, it will not be until 2029 that we will see a higher number of places in the system. Therefore, it's lower in every year in between. By 2029, there will be 658,855 CSPs, just over what it was in 2021, but the Australian population is projected to reach 29 million people. On the available data, that is an extra 5,000 places for an extra 3.6 million people.</para>
<para>That brings me back full circle. This government is trying to prohibit the exact thing that they have done for the last two years. What is more, they are saying that, even with those flaws in place, they will achieve far less than what was achieved by the coalition.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move opposition amendments (1) to (3) on sheet 4025:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 16, page 28 (lines 19 to 22), omit the definition of <inline font-style="italic">over-enrolled places</inline>, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">over-enrolled places</inline> means:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the number of places worked out under subsection (3); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the provider is a *transitioning Table A provider&#x2014;the number of places worked out under subsection (4);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">reduced by the adjustment determined under subsection (6).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 16, page 29 (after line 19), at the end of section 33-38, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) For the purposes of the definition of <inline font-style="italic">over-enrolled</inline><inline font-style="italic">places</inline>, the ATEC must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consider the provider's student retention rate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) inform the provider, in writing, of the adjustment that the ATEC proposes to determine for the provider under this subsection; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) invite the provider to make a submission, in writing, to the ATEC in relation to the proposed adjustment within 30 days after the giving of the invitation; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) after the earlier of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) receiving the provider's submission (if any);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the end of the period of 30 days after the giving of the invitation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">determine, in writing, an adjustment for the provider for the reference year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The ATEC must consider any submissions made by the provider in accordance with an invitation given under subsection (6).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) An adjustment under subsection (6) may be zero.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 16, page 29 (line 22), omit "lesser of", substitute "greater of".</para></quote>
<para>This sheet addresses the most substantial drawback of this bill. As we've said previously, the overenrolment provisions of this bill penalise providers if they educate more students than they are paid to by the taxpayer. Now, this has three main drawbacks for the taxpayer. It means that we pay more money to educate the same number of students. It is anti productivity. For the university it means they are not able to respond to student demand and that there is no flexibility to respond to factors beyond the university's control. For the student it means less choice. It means they are less likely to be able to study at the university of their first preference, and that's because universities are incentivised not to offer more places lest they get slapped with a penalty. And there's a perverse incentive too: as drafted, the legislation allows the situation whereby a university is penalised if it improves its retention rate.</para>
<para>This amendment addresses both of those issues in a way far better than what was proposed by the Greens. Rather than proposing a straight 105 per cent buffer across the board. This gives smaller providers more certainty. It gives them more headroom, it means that they won't get hit with a penalty unless they hit the proposed 750 student limit and it tilts the balance in favour of the newer, smaller providers, not the mega-universities. The government and Greens have not addressed the perverse incentive, presumably because they think the ATEC will never make a mistake and there will never be unforeseen circumstances like an economic downturn, which history tells us will lead to greater retention. They are counting on universities never being unfairly slapped with an overenrolment penalty.</para>
<para>This is a sensible improvement that is materially better than the alternatives on offer, and I commend them to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendments (1) to (3) on sheet 4025 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:49]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Colleagues and Chair, what I propose to do is speak to all my amendments and then I'll move them all one by one at the end. That means we can save bouncing backwards and forwards from the chamber. I'll start firstly with opposition amendment (1) on sheet 4027. I move the amendment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (after line 24), after subparagraph (1)(b)(ii), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iia) immediately before the person enrolled in the *eligible equity course, the person's usual place of residence was in a *high priority area;</para></quote>
<para>This is an amendment that backs in regional students. It says that, in the primary legislation, if you're a kid from the bush, you should be eligible for support. We know that regional students often face greater challenges, and we want more of them to be able to go to uni and succeed if that's what they want to do. That's why we in government set up measures like the tertiary access payment, because we know that that sort of help can be a game changer for kids from the regions. So we are saying to the government: put it in the primary legislation.</para>
<para>Let me be clear. Regional students could be listed as recipients of support under section 39-25(1)(b)(iii). But why not put those kids in the primary legislation in the same way that other groups are listed in section 39-25? It's about showing your support for the regions. That's who we're supporting with this amendment. For those in this place who don't support the amendment, it will be for you to explain why you did not support regional kids.</para>
<para>Later on, I will move an amendment on sheet 4029. This amendment is about the minister's extraordinary overreach in this bill. The coalition belled the cat on this issue, in a range of areas, when the bill was introduced, but one of the most egregious examples was the minister's unilateral power to impose conditions on universities. Right now, the law says that providers must comply with conditions that they agree to. This is in section 36-65 of the Higher Education Support Act, or HESA. Fair enough. You're a university. You agree to a condition; you must abide by it. We pointed out that, for some reason, the minister was changing that. The new sections 36 -65 introduced by this bill says, among other things, that the minister may in writing determine conditions that a specified higher education provider must comply with for the purposes of the division. What does that mean? On the drafting that was introduced, it means that, at any time, the minister could impose a condition on a university, and the university would be required by law to comply with it. They would not agree to it. The minister just decides, and the uni must comply. The minister is not at all required to consult. The minister is not even required to publish the condition. And the condition must be retrospective.</para>
<para>It is unfettered in its scope. As we specifically pointed out, it can deal with industrial relations matters with an extraordinary degree of power. It is not subject to disallowance in this parliament, and it is not subject to merits review. The government changed this in the House, but they changed it in a very narrow way that was all about their own sectional interests, because the changes they made in the House specifically and deliberately removed from the minister the power to make conditions in relation to industrial relations conditions. You can imagine why that happened&#x2014;how the NTEU dropped their bundle at the prospect of a future minister having control over their industrial conditions, how they rang the minister's office and told them to fix it. You can imagine the flurry of activity that occurred.</para>
<para>Let me be very clear here: the coalition finished talking on this bill around 12.45 pm on 2 July in the other place. This was the first time that the issues with the power were pointed out. The next day of sitting was 11 August, and the government amendments in the House were ready to go before the very next sitting day. We know this because, helpfully, the amendments in the other place had a time stamp. The government amendments were finalised on 10 August 2026 at 3.13 and four seconds, to be precise. It's good to see that the government is responsible for the sectional interests of its funders, but the amendment in this provision in the other place did not go far enough. Like us, many in the crossbenches and the sector at large say that these powers should not be centralised in the hands of the minister, so section 36-65 should go.</para>
<para>In dealing with sheet 4032 amendments, which I'll move later as well, this is a very straightforward, sensible amendment. This is about competitive neutrality. It's about treating providers who provide the same products in the same way. The bill establishes a legislative framework for managing international students. And, as we've said, it sets out how those international student places are allocated to every provider in the system. Under this bill, only table-A and table-B universities are entitled to be consulted about their allocations. The mind boggles. When you're talking about independent providers who are not table-A or table-B universities, you're saying to them that they are not entitled to be consulted about their own financial future&#x2014;their own livelihood. This is silly. It's unfair. It needs to go. This is a commonsense amendment that restores some basic fairness.</para>
<para>Then I'll go to sheet 4033, which I'll also move later on in this debate. This amendment goes to one of the core issues that we think is missing in this legislation, and that's a focus on quality. Quality should be the watchword, but it's simply not found at all in this bill. It should be, and it starts with the National Tertiary Education Objective. It's worth revisiting what the current version does, because it will be an iron rod that guides this new regulator. What does the objective say? This legislation says that the National Tertiary Education Objective is an objective for tertiary education in Australia, firstly to promote a strong, equitable and resilient democracy and secondly to drive national economic and social development and environmental sustainability. Then, if that wasn't clear enough, the legislation goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">When performing functions and exercising powers, the ATEC and the ATEC Commissioners must have regard to the National Tertiary Education Objective &#x2026;</para></quote>
<para>This is an explicit requirement in law. It guarantees that, in circumstances where they would otherwise be irrelevant, the ATEC must be thinking about social development, whatever that means, and environmental sustainability. And that's important, because every administrative lawyer will tell you: when a body like the ATEC makes a decision, it must have regard to relevant considerations and must not have regard to irrelevant considerations. Under the law, if a matter is relevant, you must take into account. If it's not relevant, you must not take it into account. So, absent the requirement in law, ATEC would be required to take social development and sustainability into account where they are relevant, but would be required to not take them into account where they are irrelevant. Putting it in legislation changes that. It says that, to be a valid decision, the ATEC must take those things into account regardless. Under the National Tertiary Education Objective right now the ATEC is required that deeply political but otherwise irrelevant considerations&#x2014;like social development and environmental sustainability&#x2014;must infect every decision that ATEC makes. You're opening yourself up to every green lawfare activist who wants to challenge a decision about a provider in the courts because it doesn't adequately deal with the climate change or the latest progressive social trend. That in itself is bad enough, but worse than that is the objective misses the obvious. It fails to set the things that are and should be relevant to decisions about tertiary education in this country&#x2014;things like teaching and learning, research, scholarship, productivity, positive student experiences, competition, innovation across the sector, Australian values, efficiency, value for money both for the taxpayer and for the student, and the reduction of regulatory burdens. Those are the things that a regulator should be taking into account when making decisions about our tertiary sector. Those are things you'd expect and hope to see.</para>
<para>It's not just me saying this. It's not just the Liberal Party saying this. It's even bodies like the NTU&#x2014;no great ally of centre-right politics. It's no excuse to say that it was a recommendation of the universities accord&#x2014;that does not bind the government. It is for governments to consider a recommendation and to weigh up the justification powers provided, the pros and cons, and the implications. Deciding to write into the legislation is an act of policy decision by the government. Once it's in your legislation, you own it.</para>
<para>The National Tertiary Education Objective as drafted is not fit to proceed. Amending it should be a necessary but not sufficient condition for legislating anything like an ATEC. This amendment changes it. It's simple, it's straightforward and, I would like to think, it's uncontroversial. It says that the objective of tertiary education in Australia is exactly what you'd expect it to be&#x2014;teaching, learning, research, scholarship, productivity, positive student experiences, competition, innovation, efficiency, value for money, and support for Australian values. If the government does not support it, they'll be sending a very clear message they will be prioritising misplaced pride over substance, and they'll be voting against teaching, against learning, against research and against support for Australian values. Let them explain that. Let them give excuses for why they wanted to vote against teaching, against learning, against research and against Australian values in our tertiary sector, and let it be on their heads.</para>
<para>We have a number of other amendments which I'll also speak to. I will later come to sheet 4037. This sheet goes to a matter that should not be controversial. Antisemitism is not just about Jews; it's about all Australians. Antisemitism is a national security issue&#x2014;more than 30 of our most senior national security, defence and intelligence leaders said so. Universities have been told now by both sides of politics that they need to clean up their acts and prevent the antisemitism that has taken root on their campuses. But instead of doing something serious to prevent and respond to antisemitism, they debated the definition of the word. This is absurd. These changes end the ridiculous situation where conduct that is antisemitic at one campus on one side of Sydney is acceptable at another campus on the other side of Sydney. They establish in law a single national definition of antisemitism for higher education in Australia. It is the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism&#x2014;the definition that, as the Royal Commission on Antisemitism and Social Cohesion itself said, has been adopted by the Commonwealth and state governments. It is the definition that was adopted by the royal commission itself, it is a definition that the Prime Minister himself expressly says he accepts, and it's a definition that explicitly allows criticism of Israel in the same way that we'd criticise every other country.</para>
<para>So we're asking the government to please vote for its own policy. The amendments on this sheet explicitly require universities to prevent, combat and respond to antisemitism. They ensure that taxpayers aren't funding research to promote, enable or amplify antisemitism. They make sure that the shameful displays that we saw in the encampments never, ever happen again and that we don't have the academics taking children to encampments to call for intifada. We know what intifada looks like in this country: it looks like 15 people being murdered at Bondi Beach. So, to the government, we say this: support these amendments. We are asking you to vote simply for your own policy. We're asking you to set it down in law to send universities the clearest message that our parliament expects them to rid their campuses of the Jew hate that they have allowed to fester. Doing so unequivocally is in the interests of all Australians.</para>
<para>Later on, I'll come to and move amendments on sheet 4096. These are sensible and straightforward amendments that list two university colleagues as table B universities: the University of Theology and Alphacrucis University College. They are both reputable, highly effective and respected institutions that have met all the thresholds required to be listed as table B providers. We are asking the government and all those in this parliament to recognise these wonderful institutions and list them in legislation. In doing that, can I take a moment to recognise, as is appropriate, that both of these institutions deserve to be recognised in legislation and that that wouldn't happen without the support of the government. I thank the government very much indeed for their constructive approach. For full transparency, I note that I've studied at Alphacrucis myself&#x2014;before it was a university, mind you&#x2014;many years ago. It is a fine institution, and I'm pleased that this amendment is being proposed here today. I look forward to these two very fine institutions being recognised in law.</para>
<para>In the time I've got left, I'll deal with a few more. We've got amendments on sheet 4106. These are amendments that say one simple thing. They say that regional means regional&#x2014;it is the regional funding guarantee. They ensure that funding for regional campuses goes to regional campuses. We support funding for regional campuses. It is a simple fact that regional delivery costs more. The cohorts are smaller. There are greater difficulties in recruiting staff. There is often a requirement, sometimes set down in state or territory laws, to maintain facilities across multiple campuses or sustain a breadth of course offerings beyond what is economically sustainable. The regional component of needs based funding is intended to address exactly that.</para>
<para>I think I spoke about this when I gave my speech in the second reading debate. I made clear that there are two major flaws in the regional funding. First, the definition of a high-priority area was not confined to regional, remote and very remote Australia. It would have allowed the minister to specify any area he wanted as a high-priority area. That would be the inner west of Sydney or the inner north of Melbourne. It undermines the intent of the funding. Second, the bill allows regional funding to go to a university if it has a course that is 'administered in the regions'. Make no mistake: this is a real concern of the regional providers. They have identified the risk that every large metro university will set up a regional hub with a laptop and a local administrator to 'administer' their courses regardless of where those courses are being delivered or where they're delivered from. The amendment closes the loophole, and that means a win for the regions, a win for the taxpayer and a win for the country. I will commend those to the Senate when we move them.</para>
<para>The other amendment that I'll be addressing today is the amendment on sheet 4107. This amendment corrects what appears to be either a drafting error or an arbitrary distinction that prevents postgraduate courses of study from being eligible for needs based funding. It preserves some of the flexibility that saw extraordinary success for the Job-ready Graduates program in postgraduate cohorts. There are very good reasons why the minister has included Job-ready Graduates in five successive portfolio budget statements. The Job-ready Graduates scheme drastically reduced the amount paid by teachers, nurses and others in their field of study. At the commencement of the Job-ready Graduates scheme in 2021, the maximum annual student contribution for education and nursing was $3,950, compared with the $6,804 rate that applied previously. This was a reduction of approximately 42 per cent. In other words, since Labor came to power, every single teacher who has graduated from a higher education institution in a Commonwealth supported place has been a beneficiary of Job-ready Graduates. It is the same with the nurses and the STEM graduates. They all paid much, much less. In any balanced discussion, these benefits, along with others in the nursing, STEM and other fields, would also feature.</para>
<para>In the inquiry into this bill, the committee received a significant contribution from the Council of Australian Postgraduate Associations, CAPA. CAPA pointed out that one of the features of Job-ready Graduates was to allow universities greater flexibility to move Commonwealth supported places between levels of study. CAPA linked that flexibility to an increase in subsidised postgraduate opportunities, allowing institutions to respond to demand and students to undertake study that might otherwise have been available only at full fees. CAPA's evidence highlights that Commonwealth supported postgraduate course load increased by 8,422, or 17.2 per cent, between 2020 and 2024. Health represented about 72 per cent of the total expansion in postgraduate CSP load. That is an extraordinary increase in the number of postgraduate qualified personnel entering the workforce in fields which increasingly require postgraduate qualifications, and it particularly benefits regional Australia, where universities needed and used the flexibility to offer postgraduate courses. What this amendment does is preserve some of that flexibility by ensuring that needs based funding is available for postgraduate courses as much as it is for undergraduate courses and levelling the playing field.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, do you have further contributions you wish to make?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I only have one more paragraph, actually.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: That may be the case, but the standing orders provide that you can only have two consecutive 10-minute slots. If another senator wishes to make a very&#x2014;oh, sorry. The minister is seeking the call.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to assist the chamber, I'll give an indication of the government's support and otherwise. I'm really doing that to assist the chamber. The government will oppose amendments on sheets 4027, 4029, 4033, 4032, 4037, 4036 and 4107. The government will support amendments on sheets 4096 and 4106, and we thank Senator O'Sullivan for those amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will just wrap up my comments. What I was saying is that the amendment on sheet 4107, which I was alluding to, preserves some of the flexibility by ensuring that needs based funding is available for postgraduate courses as much as it is for undergraduate courses, and so it levels the playing field and removes the disincentive that would otherwise apply for higher level degrees, ultimately for the benefit of students.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendments on sheet 4027 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:19]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move amendments on sheets 4029, 4032, 4033, 4036 and 4107 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4029</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 22, page 31 (line 22) to page 32 (line 21), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22 Section 36-65</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4032</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (line 16), omit "that are Table A or Table B providers".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 25), omit "must consult certain providers", substitute "must consult providers".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (line 19), omit "that is a Table A or Table B provider".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4033</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Page 63 (after line 13), after Schedule 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3A &#x2014; Amendment relating to National Tertiary Education Objective</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Universities Accord (Australian Tertiary Education Commission) Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Act 2026.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 13(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit the subsection, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The <inline font-style="italic">National Tertiary Education Objective</inline> is the objective for tertiary education in Australia to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) develop a world-class tertiary education sector that drives excellence in teaching and learning; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) deliver world-leading research and scholarship, particularly in strategic areas of national significance; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) improve productivity by developing a highly skilled, adaptable and productive workforce; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) establish close links between tertiary education providers, industry and business to strengthen student outcomes and support innovation across the economy; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) deliver positive student experiences across the tertiary education sector; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) promote competition and innovation across the tertiary education sector; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) support Australian values, including equality of opportunity, the rule of law, and Western liberal democratic traditions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) drive efficiency across the sector to provide value for money for students and the Australian taxpayer; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) reduce regulatory burdens on the tertiary education sector where practicable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4036</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (line 5), at the end of section 30-50, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; and (c) the criteria used by the *ATEC in determining each allocation made under subsection 30-15(1) or (1A) for a year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4107</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 42 (line 4), after "undergraduate course of study", insert "or a postgraduate course of study".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendments on sheets 4029, 4032, 4033, 4036 and 4107 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:28]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;Can I please record my opposition to 4033.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 4037 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 5), omit "Schedules 2 to 4", substitute "Schedules 2 to 5".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 68 (after line 17), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 5 &#x2014; Amendments relating to antisemitism in higher education</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Australian Research Council Act 2001</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Section 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline>: see section 4A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 At the end of Part 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4A Meaning of <inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline> means a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note 1: Manifestations of antisemitism might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong." It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective&#x2014;such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(k) holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note 2: The definition in this section, and the material in Note 1, is taken from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's working definition of antisemitism, as published as at 14 December 2025 on the Alliance's website (http://holocaustremembrance.com).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 After paragraph 49( 2)( eb )</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ec) require that the organisation, and each researcher involved in the research project concerned, must not promote, enable or amplify antisemitism; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 At the end of section 58</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Without limiting subparagraph (1)(a)(i) or subsection (2), the eligibility criteria must include that an application must not relate to an organisation, research program or research project that promotes, enables or amplifies antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Without limiting subparagraph (1)(a)(iv), the rules must deal with any other matters that the Board considers appropriate to ensure that financial assistance to an organisation under a funding agreement is not used to promote, enable or amplify antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 Transitional provision &#x2014; variation of funding approvals</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A funding approval made under section 48 of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Research Council Act 2001 </inline>that is in force when this item commencesis revoked, by force of this item, at the end of the 6-month period beginning at that time unless the approval is varied, before the end of that period, to require that the relevant organisation, and each researcher involved in the research project concerned, must not promote, enable or amplify antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Act 2011</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6 Section 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">antisemitic</inline> means the conduct of expressing antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline>: see section 5A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7 After section 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5A Meaning of <inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline> means a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note 1: Manifestations of antisemitism might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong." It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective&#x2014;such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(k) holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note 2: The definition in this section, and the material in Note 1, is taken from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance's working definition of antisemitism, as published as at 14 December 2025 on the Alliance's website (http://holocaustremembrance.com).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8 Paragraph 24(a)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "31", substitute "31A".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 After section 31</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">31A Condition &#x2014; preventing, combatting and responding to antisemitism</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A registered higher education provider must adopt and implement for all purposes the definition of <inline font-style="italic">antisemitism</inline> in this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A registered higher education provider must ensure the provider prevents, combats and responds to antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Without limiting subsection (2), a registered higher education provider must take appropriate steps to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) recognise the specific and unique nature of antisemitism; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) understand how antisemitism manifests in modern times; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) publicly reject antisemitism in all its forms; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) put in place adequate arrangements to deal with antisemitism on campus, after appropriate consideration of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the adequacy of their policies and rules, and the nature and extent of their enforcement of these policies and rules; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) their disciplinary procedures and complaints handling processes; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) any differences between their approach to antisemitism and other forms of discrimination; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) put in place adequate arrangements for the security and safety of Jewish students, academics, staff and visitors, including for:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) physical safety; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the display of cultural and religious symbols; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) barring or expelling people from campus for antisemitic activity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) adopt and implement policies and procedures to prevent academics, staff and students from engaging in:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) de facto boycotts against collaborations with Jewish or Israeli academics, institutions, students or staff; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any other antisemitic discrimination or vilification; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) take steps to ensure that antisemitic content is not included in course and teaching materials, or delivered during lectures, tutorials and other classes; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) provide adequate support arrangements for academics, staff and students experiencing antisemitism on or off campus.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10 After subsection 58(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) Without limiting subsection (1), the Threshold Standards must include standards against which the compliance of a registered higher education provider with the condition of registration in section 31A can be assessed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11 Application provision &#x2014; registered higher education providers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 31A of the <inline font-style="italic">Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Act 2011</inline>, as inserted by this Schedule, applies in relation to registered higher education providers whether registered before or after the commencement of this item.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 4037 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:36]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move opposition amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 4096 and (1) to (3) on sheet 4106 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4096</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (after table item 4), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 52 (after line 11), after Schedule 1, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1A &#x2014; Amendments relating to Table B providers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 16-20(1) (table)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 Transitional rules</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister may, by legislative instrument, make rules prescribing matters of a transitional nature (including prescribing any saving or application provisions) relating to the amendments made by this Schedule.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) To avoid doubt, the rules may not do the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) create an offence or civil penalty;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) provide powers of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) arrest or detention; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) entry, search or seizure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) impose a tax;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) set an amount to be appropriated from the Consolidated Revenue Fund under an appropriation in this Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) directly amend the text of this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4106</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 44 (line 21), omit "administered or delivered", substitute "delivered (by any mode)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 44 (after line 27), at the end of subsection (1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: For example, the mode of delivery of a unit may be online or face-to-face, or both.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 59, page 45 (lines 1 to 6), omit subsection (4), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) An area is a <inline font-style="italic">high priority</inline><inline font-style="italic"> area</inline> if it is a Remoteness Area categorised under the *ABS Remoteness Structure as Inner Regional Australia, Outer Regional Australia, Remote Australia or Very Remote Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BELL</name>
    <name.id>319142</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;At the request of Senator Hanson, I move One Nation amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3915 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 68 (after line 17), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 5 &#x2014; Amendments relating to the publication of the average income of graduates</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 36-65</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">36-67 Providers to comply with regulations under section 238-1B</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A higher education provider must comply with requirements prescribed by regulations made for the purposes of section 238-1B (publication of average income of relevant graduates) to the extent (if any) to which the requirements are applicable to the higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After section 238-1A</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">238-1B Publication of average income of relevant graduates</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The regulations must establish a scheme to facilitate the publication of information about the average taxable income, for an income year, of relevant graduates:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) 2 income years after graduating; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) 5 income years after graduating; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 10 income years after graduating.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the regulations may provide for and in relation to the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the publication of information about the average taxable income, for an income year, of relevant graduates who have completed a specified *course of study at a specified higher education provider;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the publication of information about the average taxable income, for an income year, of relevant graduates who have received a specified class of *higher education award from a specified higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The regulations may require, in prescribed circumstances, a higher education provider to publish, on the higher education provider's website, information about the average taxable income, for an income year, of relevant graduates who have undertaken a *course of study with that higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The regulations may require a higher education provider to give to the *Commissioner information (including *personal information) that is in its possession relating to students that the *Commissioner reasonably requires for the purposes of a scheme established for the purposes of subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">graduate</inline> meansobtain a *higher education award.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">relevant graduate</inline> has the meaning prescribed by the regulations.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These amendments relate to the publication of the average income of graduates. The coalition will support this measure. It's a simple and straightforward transparency measure that allows students, parents, taxpayers and everyone with an interest in higher education to draw a clear and direct link to how they perform in the workplace. It will help students make informed decisions about their prospects, and it incentivises providers to align their degrees with employment outcomes. This is a sensible measure. That is why we'll support it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that One Nation amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3915 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:46]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am going to run through my amendments. I will probably be five to seven minutes and won't be forcing divisions; I know people have things to do. I will give a brief explanation of each together now rather than one by one. I seek leave to move the amendments on sheets 4064, 4065, 4066, 4068, 4069, 4070, 4072, 4073, 4075, 4076, 4077, 4078, 4079, 4080, 4081, 4083, 4084, 4085, 4099 under my name together.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4064</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 22, page 31 (line 22) to page 32 (line 21), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22 Section 36-65</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4065</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (lines 5 to 10), omit subsection 46B(3), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Determinations must not specify particular matters</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The matters specified in an international allocation pool determination:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) must not apply to a particular ESOS registered higher education provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) must be limited to system-wide considerations that apply to all ESOS registered higher education providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3A) To avoid doubt, in making an international allocation pool determination, the Minister must not:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) direct the ATEC to allocate a number of international student places to a particular ESOS registered higher education provider; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) specify a number of overseas students that may commence a particular higher education course or kind of higher education course; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) otherwise determine an allocation by the ATEC for a particular ESOS registered higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (lines 15 to 19), omit subsection 46B(5).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4066</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (after line 10), after subsection 46B(3), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3A) However, if the Minister varies an international allocation pool determination:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the varied determination must not specify matters that apply to a particular ESOS registered higher education provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the matters specified in the varied determination must be limited to system-wide considerations that apply to all ESOS registered higher education providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (after line 18), after subsection 46E(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) However, the Minister must not direct the ATEC to vary the allocation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (before line 19), before subsection 46E(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1B) Despite regulations made for the purposes of paragraph 44(2)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline>, section 42 (disallowance) of that Act applies to a legislative instrument made under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (lines 19 to 23), omit subsection 46E(2), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The direction may specify:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) matters that the ATEC may take into account when considering whether to vary the allocation; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) matters that the ATEC may comply with if the ATEC varies the allocation as a result of the direction.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) However:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the direction must not specify matters that apply to a particular ESOS registered higher education provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the matters specified in the direction must be limited to system-wide considerations that apply to all ESOS registered higher education providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) To avoid doubt, the ATEC is not required to vary an allocation as a result of the direction.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 2, page 60 (after line 27), after item 15, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15A Subsection 71(1) (note)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the note.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15B After subsection 71(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) Despite regulations made for the purposes of paragraph 44(2)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline>, section 42 (disallowance) of that Act applies to a legislative instrument made under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4068</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (line 10), omit "in writing", substitute "by legislative instrument".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (after line 15), after subsection 30-55(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Allocation must not cap places for Indigenous students</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) The Minister, in making an allocation under subsection (1), must not impose a limit on the number of the Commonwealth supported places in a provider's *demand driven courses profile that can be provided by the provider in respect of *Indigenous persons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (lines 27 and 28), omit subsection 30-55(4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 2, page 11 (after line 5), after paragraph 30-60(1)(a), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(aa) a course of study that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) is undertaken by an Indigenous person; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) is a *postgraduate course of study; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) is not a course of study in medicine;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 2, page 11 (line 22), omit "in writing", substitute "by legislative instrument".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, page 12 (after line 3), after subsection 30-65(4), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Allocation must not cap places for Indigenous students</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4A) The Minister, in making an allocation under subsection (1), must not impose a limit on the number of the Commonwealth supported places in a provider's *medical courses profile that can be provided by the provider in respect of *Indigenous persons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 1, item 2, page 12 (lines 4 and 5), omit subsection 30-65(5).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4069</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 4 (after line 10), after subsection 30-5(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Total number of places must not decrease</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) However, the Minister must not make a *total allocation pool determination that specifies a total number of Commonwealth supported places for a specified year that is lower than the total number of Commonwealth supported places specified in the total allocation pool determination for the previous year (a <inline font-style="italic">negative determination</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1B) Despite subsection (1A), the Minister may make a negative determination if the Minister is satisfied, on reasonable grounds, that exceptional circumstances exist.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1C) If the Minister makes a negative determination, the explanatory statement (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline>) for the determination must include:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a description of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the exceptional circumstances giving rise to the negative determination; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the anticipated duration of the exceptional circumstances; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) evidence for the exceptional circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 5 (lines 24 and 25), omit paragraphs 30-5(9)(a) and (b), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a *total allocation pool determination that is not a negative determination; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a variation of a total allocation pool determination that is not a variation of a negative determination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: To avoid doubt, section 42 (disallowance) of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline> applies to a negative determination and a variation of a negative determination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4070</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 7 (line 30) to page 8 (line 14), omit subsections 30-25(1) and (2), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Core student load</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The <inline font-style="italic">core student load</inline> for a *Table A provider for a year (the <inline font-style="italic">reference year</inline>) is the number of Commonwealth supported places that is:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) if the reference year is 2027&#x2014;the *number of Commonwealth supported places (rounded up to the nearest whole number) provided by the provider in *higher education courses during the most recent year for which, as at immediately before the reference year, there was *verified student data for any higher education provider; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the reference year is 2028 or a later year&#x2014;the greater of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the provider's *domestic student profile for the immediately preceding year;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the *number of Commonwealth supported places (rounded up to the nearest whole number) provided by the provider in *higher education courses during the most recent year for which, as at the time the *ATEC first made an allocation under subsection 30-15(1) for the reference year, there was *verified student data for any higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4072</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 11 (lines 28 to 33), omit subsections 30-65(2) and (3), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Minister may make the allocation by specifying a whole number of places.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 12 (after lines 3), after subsection 30-65(4), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Minimum number of places that may be allocated</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4A) The *medical courses profile for a year (the <inline font-style="italic">reference year</inline>) for a provider mentioned in subsection (1) must be no less than:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) if no allocation has previously been made to the provider under subsection (1)&#x2014;the *number of Commonwealth supported places provided by the provider in *medical courses during the most recent year for which, as at immediately before the reference year, there was *verified student data for the provider; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) otherwise&#x2014;the higher of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the provider's medical courses profile for the most recent year for which such an allocation was made; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the *number of Commonwealth supported places provided by the provider in *medical courses during the most recent year for which, as at immediately before the reference year, there was *verified student data for the provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4073</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (lines 23 and 24), omit subparagraph 39-25(1)(b)(ii), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) at the time the person enrolled with the provider, or in the unit, the person was from a *low socioeconomic background;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4075</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (line 14), omit "all", substitute "both".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (line 18), omit subparagraph 39-25(1)(a)(ii).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 59, page 41 (line 31) to page 42 (line 8), omit subsection 39-25(3).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 59, page 42 (lines 15 and 16) omit "an *eligible equity course", substitute "a *course of study".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (lines 21 to 26), omit subsection 39-70(2), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Total equity component</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The higher education provider must spend an amount of the grant that is equal to or greater than the *total equity component for the provider for the year on activities that are primarily for either or both of the following purposes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) supporting *eligible equity students to access, participate in and complete *courses of study;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) supporting under-represented students to access, participate in and complete courses of study.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (line 4), omit "either or both", substitute "any".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (line 9), at the end of subsection 39-70(4), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; (c) supporting under-represented students to access, participate in and complete courses of study.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (after line 17), at the end of section 39-70, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Under represented</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> students</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(b) and (4)(c), the ATEC may determine, in writing, that a student, or a student in a class of students, is an <inline font-style="italic">under-represented student</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) In making a determination under subsection (7), the ATEC must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consult with higher education providers; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) consider the need to improve the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) student outreach;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) aspiration-building;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) access to higher education;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) participation and retention of existing students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Schedule 1, item 66, page 49 (lines 23 and 24), omit the definition of <inline font-style="italic">eligible equity course</inline> in subclause 1(1) of Schedule 1.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Schedule 3, page 62 (after line 21), after item 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3A At the end of subsection 29(4)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; (c) include terms that require publication of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) total expenditure under a grant under Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003 </inline>for a year for the purposes of paragraph 39-70(2)(b) and (4)(c) of that Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) outcomes as a result of that expenditure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4076</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (line 24), omit "for the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (after line 26), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The amount may be spent in the year the grant is received or a later year: see subsections (6) to (10).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (line 4), omit "for the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (after line 9), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The amount may be spent in the year the grant is received or a later year: see subsections (6) to (10).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 59, page 48 (lines 14 to 17), omit subsection 39-70(6), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Rollover of grant amounts</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) If a higher education provider does not spend either or both of the amounts referred to in subsections (2) and (4) (the <inline font-style="italic">unspent amount</inline>) before the end of the year, then the unspent amount is taken to be granted to the body under this section in respect of</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the next following year; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a period determined by the Secretary under subsection (9).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The amount taken to be granted under subsection (6) is taken to be granted for the same purpose as the original grant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) The grant taken to be made under subsection (6) is taken to be made under the same conditions as the conditions of the original grant&#x2014;except the grant is taken to be made in respect of the next following year or the period (if any) determined by the Secretary under subsection (9).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) For the purpose of paragraph (6)(b) the Secretary may, in writing, determine a period in respect of which an unspent amount is taken to have been granted to the body.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) The Secretary may, in writing, determine reporting requirements for the purposes of this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4077</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (line 4), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (line 6), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (line 9), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, item 15, page 56 (lines 25 to 33), omit subsection 46B(1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister may, by legislative instrument, make a determination (an <inline font-style="italic">international allocation pool determination</inline>) specifying:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the number of overseas students that may commence a course of education with ESOS registered higher education providers during a specified calendar year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) matters that the ATEC must comply with in relation to making an allocation for the year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The Minister may vary an international allocation pool determination (see subsection 33(3) of the <inline font-style="italic">Acts Interpretation Act 1901</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">When determinations must be made</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) The Minister must make an international allocation pool determination:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) for 2027&#x2014;before 1 January 2027; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) for 2028 or a later year&#x2014;before 30 June in the immediately preceding year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1B) To avoid doubt, if an international allocation pool determination has not been made for a calendar year (the <inline font-style="italic">current year</inline>), the international allocation pool determination for the previous calendar year applies for the current year until a new international allocation pool determination has been made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 4), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 22), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 24), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 32), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (line 33), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (lines 3 and 4), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (line 7), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (line 9), omit "that period", substitute "that year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (line 26), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Schedule 2, item 15, page 58 (line 28), omit "that period", substitute "that year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (line 14), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (line 26), omit "the period", substitute "the year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (line 31), omit "a period", substitute "a calendar year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(18) Schedule 2, item 15, page 59 (line 32), omit "that period", substitute "that year".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4078</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 15, page 60 (after line 27), at the end of Part 4A, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">46G Independent evaluation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause an independent evaluation to be conducted of the operation of the amendments made to this Act by Schedule 2 to the <inline font-style="italic">Universities Accord (Opening the Doors of Opportunity) Act 2026</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the evaluation must consider the impact of the amendments on the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) autonomy;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) transparency;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) regional impacts;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) visa processing;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) sustainability;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) student choice;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) administrative burdens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Timing of evaluation</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The persons conducting the evaluation must commence the evaluation within two years of the commencement of this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Consultation requirement</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The persons conducting the evaluation must undertake appropriate consultation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Minister to be given report of review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The persons conducting the evaluation must give the Minister a written report of the evaluation within six months of commencing the evaluation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Tabling</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Minister must cause a copy of the report of the evaluation to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the Minister receives the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Government response to recommendations</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) If the report sets out one or more recommendations to the Commonwealth Government:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Minister must cause a statement setting out the Commonwealth Government's response to each of the recommendations to be prepared; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) within 30 days of tabling the report of the review in a House of the Parliament, the Minister must table a copy of the statement in each House of the Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4079</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 16, page 30 (after line 27), after subsection 33-39A(4), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4A) The *ATEC may amend a determination under subsection (4) to specify a higher whole number of Commonwealth supported places in relation to a specified *transitioning Table A provider and a specified year if *verified student data shows an excess in the *number of Commonwealth supported places provided by the provider during the year was caused by unanticipated demand, changed enrolment patterns, improved retention or progression, data correction or circumstances beyond the provider's control.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4B) Subsection (4A) limits the application of subsection 33(3) of the <inline font-style="italic">Acts Interpretation Act 1901</inline> in relation to a determination under subsection (4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4C) A *transitioning Table A provider may, in writing, request the *ATEC to amend a determination under subsection (4) in accordance with subsection (4A).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4D) If a provider makes a request under subsection (4C), the *ATEC must consider the request and decide:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) to accept the request; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) refuse the request.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4E) If the *ATEC refuses a request under paragraph (4D)(b), the ATEC must give the provider written reasons for the refusal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, page 33 (after line17), after item 26, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">26A Section 206-1 (after table item 1ABA)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4080</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 9 (line 31), before "The *ATEC", insert "(1)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (after line 2), after paragraph 30-50(a), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(aa) the criteria, reasons, relative weightings, data, methodology, material assumptions or constraints proposed to be used by the ATEC in determining allocations under subsection 30-15(1) or (1A) for a year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ab) the criteria, reasons, relative weightings, data, methodology, material assumptions or constraints used by the ATEC in determining each allocation made under subsection 30-15(1) or (1A) for a year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 2, page 10 (after line 5), at the end of section 30-50, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The *ATEC must redact the following information from the website:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) *personal information;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) information that is commercial-in-confidence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) However, if the *ATEC redacts information under subsection (2), the ATEC must ensure that a meaningful summary is available on the website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4081</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 9 (line 27), at the end of subsection 30-45(1), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">; (d) the provider's mission;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the provider's financial sustainability;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the provider's continuing-student capacity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) each Remoteness Area categorised under the *ABS Remoteness Structure from which the provider administers or delivers units of study;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) the quality and outcomes of the provider's services;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) student demand in relation to the provider;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) the total *equity component for the provider for the year;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(k) the provider's contribution to supporting *eligible equity students and other under-represented students to access, participate in and complete *courses of study;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(l) the provider's contribution to Australia's skills needs;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(m) alternative local provision (if any);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(n) overall system diversity and sustainability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4083</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 8 (after line 26), at the end of section 30-25, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Publication of determinations and statement of reasons</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The *ATEC must publish each determination made under subsection (2) and (4) on the ATEC's website as soon as practicable after it is made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) A determination published under subsection (6) must be accompanied by a written statement of reasons, including the following information:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) an explanation of the purpose and operation of the determination;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the power under which the determination was made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the factors taken into account by the *ATEC in making the determination, including any relevant statutory criteria;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) whether the determination is reviewable and the avenues for review (if any);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) whether the determination was made by a delegate of the *ATEC;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) any other information the *ATEC considers relevant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 2, page 12 (line 10), before "The Minister", insert "(1)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 2, page 12 (after line 14), at the end of section 30-75, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) An allocation published under subsection (1) must be accompanied by a written statement of reasons, including the following information:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) an explanation of the purpose and operation of the allocation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the power under which the allocation was made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the factors taken into account by the Minister in making the allocation, including any relevant statutory criteria;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) whether the allocation is reviewable and the avenues for review (if any);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) whether the allocation was made by a delegate of the Minister;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) any other information the Minister considers relevant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 16, page 30 (after line 29), at the end of section 33-39A, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Publication of determinations and statement of reasons</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The *ATEC must publish each determination made under subsection (4) on the ATEC's website as soon as practicable after it is made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) A determination published under subsection (6) must be accompanied by a written statement of reasons, including the following information:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) an explanation of the purpose and operation of the determination;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the power under which the determination was made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the factors taken into account by the *ATEC in making the determination, including any relevant statutory criteria;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) whether the determination is reviewable and the avenues for review (if any);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) whether the determination was made by a delegate of the *ATEC;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) any other information the *ATEC considers relevant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, page 33 (after line 20), after item 27, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27A At the end of section 238-5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1)(b), the Minister must not delegate their powers under subsections 30-55(1) and 30-65(1) to an APS employee other than an SES Employee or acting SES employee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4084</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 5 (lines 21 to 25), omit subsection 30-5(9), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Explanatory statement</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) If an instrument made under subsection (1) specifies a different *total allocation pool determination for a specified year than for the previous year, the explanatory statement (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline>) for the instrument must include a description of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the basis for the different total allocation pool determination; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) in plain English, the anticipated impact of the different total allocation pool determination on Commonwealth supported places.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 15, page 57 (lines 15 to 19), omit subsection 46B(5), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Explanatory statement</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) If an instrument made under subsection (1) specifies a different international allocation pool determination for a specified period than for the previous period, the explanatory statement (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Legislation Act 2003</inline>) for the instrument must include a description of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the basis for the different international allocation pool determination; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) in plain English, the anticipated impact of the different international allocation pool determination on the number of international student places.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4085</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (line 13), omit "in writing", substitute "by legislative instrument".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 59, page 47 (lines 16 and 17), omit subsection 39-65(3).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 4099</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 1), omit "Sections 1 to 3", substitute "Sections 1 to 4".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 2 (after line 11), after clause 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Review of Job-ready Graduates Package and student contribution settings</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause a review to be conducted into the operation of student contribution amount requirements in the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003 </inline>and the amendments made to that Act by Schedules 1 and 2 of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Amendment (Job-Ready Graduates and Supporting Regional and Remote Students) Act 2020</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Content of review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting the matters in subsection (1), the review must consider the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the adequacy, equity and simplicity of the Job-ready Graduates Package funding and the student contribution settings and effects on student choice and participation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the effect of the Job-ready Graduates Package and student contribution settings on student choice and participation in higher education;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) alternative schemes for student contributions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Consultation with higher education providers</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The persons who conduct the review must consult with higher education providers (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Advice from the Australian Tertiary Education Commission</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) For the purposes of subsection (1), the persons conducting the review must obtain advice from the Australian Tertiary Education Commission by 30 June 2027.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The persons conducting the review must provide the advice to the Minister as soon as practicable after it is received.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Minister must cause a copy of the advice to be published on the Department's website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The Minister must cause a statement setting out the Commonwealth Government's response to the advice to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting daysof that House after Minister receives the advice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Timing of review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) The review must commence as soon as practicable after the end of the period of 6 monthsstarting on the day this section commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Minister to be given report of review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) The persons conducting the review must give the Minister a written report of the review before the end of the period of 12 months starting on the day the review commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Tabling</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) The Minister must table a copy of the report in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the report is given to the Minister.</para></quote>
<para>This is a good bill, but it could have been better. We've seen a number of amendments to try to improve it. My amendments reflect the evidence tendered by experts and stakeholders to the Senate committee inquiry. The amendment on sheet 4064 removes entirely the powers the government is seeking to give the minister in this bill that I think are complete overreach. A common and fundamental concern expressed widely in evidence to the Senate committee is that the bill as drafted bestows inordinate power on the minister of the day, including to override the decision-making of the recently established Australian Tertiary Education Commission, ATEC, which was recently designed to operate independently and at arm's length from the executive. Government amendments in the House of Representatives go some way to addressing these concerns but do not resolve them completely. Further reform is required here specifically to remove ministerial powers to set course-level caps for international students, cap demand driven places for Indigenous students and set provider-specific funding conditions. The dangers of failing to curb excessive ministerial power in current and future governments for the future of our universities are clear, and the Senate should step in to prevent them.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4066 seek to put limits on ministers' directions to ATEC and make them disallowable, preserving the independence of this body as it was legislated, and I think that, as a Senate, some things that we should be mindful of when every piece of legislation comes before this place are ensuring that there is a check on the executive and that we are not giving away our power as a Senate.</para>
<para>Amendment sheet 4068 seeks to make allocations disallowable instruments and removes the ability to cap allocations for Indigenous students, including in postgraduate courses. If we are serious about equity cohorts then we should be encouraging more First Nations students to undertake postgraduate study, not allowing the number of supported students to be capped. Again, if the government wants to make changes, they should be disallowable by this Senate.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4069 seek to prevent the total allocation pool from decreasing year on year. This whole bill is all about managed growth, but we need to bake that into the legislation. As the 2050 Alliance told the committee, while the aim is to give effect to the new managed-growth funding system, the bill doesn't actually legislate sustainability or growth. It sets the rules for maximum allocations to institutions but does not specify minimum allocations. We need to set that floor to ensure our universities can grow into the future, not slip backwards.</para>
<para>Amendment sheet 4070 seeks to establish a minimum core student load. Again, this helps legislate to stop our universities going backwards and protects places. Amendments on sheet 4072 seek to legislate a minimum allocation for medical courses. We are currently in the absurd situation of importing over half of our new doctors in this country, often from countries that desperately need those doctors. We should be training those students here in Australia. I think this feeds directly into the debate we're having in this country about migration, and yet I don't hear people talking about it enough. Why are we not training enough doctors in this country? It seems to me that it comes down to cost and governments not wanting to actually bear the cost&#x2014;'cost' in their mind&#x2014;of training doctors. But we know that that is an investment in our communities. And so they'd rather just bring them in from overseas, from countries that also need doctors. I think this does need to change.</para>
<para>The amendment on sheet 4073 seeks to change the low-socioeconomic student enrolment timeframes, addressing a major concern raised by the ANU and the University of Canberra and by universities more broadly, like Western Sydney University. Despite pockets of deep disadvantage in the nation's capital, no students are deemed to come from low-socioeconomic families, because of how the socioeconomic indexes currently work. This is clearly laughable, and there was an admission during the inquiry that this is basically just because of a lack of data, a lack of information. That does not cut it in 2026. Further work is needed on this point, but moving the point at which the low-SES definition applies to students from the time they enrol in the unit to the time they enrol with the institution will help in the interim and is something I urge my Senate colleagues to support.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4077 seek to have the international allocation pool apply for a calendar year, to align with established international student recruitment processes.</para>
<para>Amendment sheet 4078 seeks to implement an additional an independent evaluation of international student place allocations, as moved by the member for Curtin, Kate Chaney, in the other place. International education is the ACT's top export industry and a huge contributor to our national economy as well. At a minimum, I think it is entirely reasonable to review the allocations and to make sure this vital part of our system is working as intended with the changes proposed in this bill.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4083 seek to require the publication of allocation determinations with a statement of reasons and to curb the delegation of ministerial powers. These are sensible amendments that promote transparency and ensure appropriately senior decision-makers are exercising power.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4084 seek to make international allocation pool determinations disallowable instruments, preserving parliamentary oversight over this key component of our higher education system. Again, as a Senate, why do we keep handing the executive power into the future? We should be retaining the right to disallow, and, where appropriate, we should actually be forcing the government of the day, when they want to make big changes, to bring legislation through this place.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4085 seek to ensure that conditions on needs based funding grants are determined by legislative instrument rather than the whim of the minister.</para>
<para>Amendments on sheet 4099 seek to require a review of the failed job-ready graduates scheme and student contribution settings. The JRG is saddling students with eye-watering amounts of debt, with undergrad students finishing with a $50,000-plus HECS debt. This debt is taking students decades to pay off and leading them to delay key life milestones, like buying a house or starting a family. It's clearly a failed system, something that the government have recognised&#x2014;recognised before they even won government&#x2014;but seem to be in no hurry to actually fix it, and that's having a huge impact on students.</para>
<para>I thank the government for bringing forward this bill. Again, I think it could be strengthened. My amendments seek to reflect that and to better support universities at a time when many of them feel like they're collateral damage, in terms of both a lack of investment in R&amp;D in this country and a lack of investment in research in universities. Then, there's a lot of talk about, and a clamping down on, international students, which the universities have had to rely on to cross-subsidise things like research in this country. So this is a welcome bill, but there's a very long way to go to better invest in universities, better invest in higher education and better invest in research in this country, rather than just talking about it.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I indicate the Greens' support for Senator Pocock's amendments on sheet 4099.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;In lieu of calling for divisions, I indicate the opposition's position on the amendments. The coalition support sheets 4064, 4076, 4080, 4083 and 4085. We oppose all the others.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd just like to say that I supported all of Senator Pocock's amendments. Unfortunately, my amendment isn't here and ready, which is really unfortunate, but I just want to say a few words for a couple of minutes, because I imagine there's a lot of kids out there to whom we're still saying, 'Dream a little cheaper.' I just want to remind those kids out there what happened a few years ago when the Morrison government brought in the job-ready graduates program, making arts degrees more expensive. Remember those kids? Remember them? I thought that move was appalling, and so did many others in this chamber. Telling our kids they had to dream a little cheaper&#x2014;well, I tell you what: fair go!</para>
<para>The Labor Party said, when they were in opposition, that they would get rid of the job-ready graduates scheme. As a matter of fact, they took that to the election last time. It's just another failure, on the government, when it comes to our young kids and giving them an education that will serve their purposes for the rest of their lives. Well, the government are halfway through their second term and they still haven't fixed this. That would tell me that they have no intention of doing so.</para>
<para>The government commissioned the universities accord to have a look at the scheme&#x2014;in 2023, for you kids out there. The interim report was very, very clear that the job-ready graduate scheme needed to be redesigned before it caused long-term damage. Those were their words.</para>
<para>Three years later, we have a bill in front of us today which doesn't mention a damn word about the job-ready graduates scheme, for you kids out there. And you know what's even worse? I've got the Greens over here saying they're there for you kids&#x2014;well and truly saying they're behind you on this&#x2014;and yet they've just done a deal with this government to get this legislation through. But they couldn't have the courage to make sure, before they did this deal, that this was brought back&#x2014;this money for you. And there's no mention from the Greens about the job-ready graduates scheme, like I said. And here's what Senator Faruqi said to you guys in 2024:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Labor should have dumped Morrison's Job-Ready Graduates scheme the second they came to power.</para></quote>
<para>And she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Students starting university next year shouldn't have to cop these ridiculous fees.</para></quote>
<para>Yet here we are today. The Greens have come through to do a university accord, and yet they couldn't stand their ground a little bit longer and say: 'We're not doing this until you go back to your word'&#x2014;to what was promised to you kids out there. That's where we're at today in this Senate chamber. So if you young kids out there think the Greens are doing you a favour while you're at university, then have a good look and think again, because this was their perfect opportunity to do something and do a deal for this, finally, once and for all. But oh no. So I just say this to you kids: you just keep dreaming a little cheaper&#x2014;just keep doing that&#x2014;because a deal could have been done for you today, and it has not been.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>32</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7491" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>33</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am pleased today to speak to the Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures Bill) 2026. The Australian Greens support primary care incentive programs and recognise their role in ensuring people have access to safe, affordable and effective primary health care. The Bulk Billing Practice Incentive Program has contributed to much-needed rises in the rates of bulk-billing, which the Australian Greens welcome. The Workforce Incentive Program stream allows a general practice to hire nurses, midwives and allied health professionals, as well as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health workers. This enables practices to utilise multidisciplinary teams. It allows general practices to do this in a way that enables interprofessional working. The Greens are supportive of this because we know that these allied health professionals are the best placed to work together in support of better outcomes for those that they work with, because they see a person as more than simply a set of symptoms; they see the whole of the person before them. Another stream of the Workforce Incentive Program is the Rural Advanced Skills Stream, which provides payments to doctors working in rural and remote communities who have advanced skills or training in emergency care.</para>
<para>These programs are just a few of the incentive payments that are within the scope of this bill, and the Greens believe that these should be protected. The purpose of this bill is to ensure that there is a clear legislative mandate for these programs and to ensure their continued operation. As stated, we absolutely support the objective of these programs. We understand they are central to ensuring that our Medicare system is able to provide funding to primary health care. However, we do question why these programs have been operating for years without a clear legislative mandate. The practice incentives program has been running in various forms since 1998, and it is only now, in 2026, that the government has realised that these programs need a clear legislative basis. It's not really good enough. The government should do better when it comes to these vital programs. People expect better from the politicians they elect and the governments that they fund with their taxes.</para>
<para>This bill also changes the name of the Health Insurance Act to the Medicare Act. In the minister's words, 'This change better reflects the scope and purpose of the legislation and improves public recognition and understanding of the act.' It is important that the legislation stays up to date with what people need. This is why it is so important that the telehealth rules within Medicare are updated to better reflect the needs and circumstances of the people who rely on telehealth medicine. Access to telehealth appointments isn't just a matter of convenience; for many Australians it is a vital lifeline. Yet Medicare rules typically require people to have attended an in-person GP appointment within the last 12 months before they can book a telehealth appointment. For disabled and chronically ill people, that requirement can place care out of reach, especially for people with conditions like ME/CFS, where travelling and securing support can place an unnecessary stress on a body that is already struggling to cope. For those in rural and regional communities, it can mean hours on the road, added expense, and time away from work, family, daily life and daily responsibilities, simply to preserve access to a service that could be safely accessed remotely. This just does not make sense.</para>
<para>The government needs to fix these dated rules so that people who cannot reasonably attend appointments in person can have access to affordable, appropriate GP care through telehealth. I foreshadow that I will be moving a second reading amendment to this bill which calls on the government to update these telehealth rules so that they are not preventing access to health care for disabled people, for people with chronic illnesses and for others who struggle to attend in-person appointments.</para>
<para>I would also like to take this opportunity to highlight some of the suggestions that came through to us throughout the period of inquiry into this bill. The committee heard that the bill should use the opportunity to further strengthen the role of nurses, midwives, allied health professionals and other non-medical healthcare professionals in primary care. The Australian Nursing &amp; Midwifery Federation explained in their submission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Allowing health services to access practice incentive programs will support their sustainability and &#x2026; provide high-quality consumer care and create opportunities for consumers to obtain accessible, equitable&#x2014;</para></quote>
<para>health&#x2014;</para>
<quote><para class="block">care, particularly in rural and remote communities where access to general practices can be challenging or even impossible.</para></quote>
<para>Nurses and other non-medical professionals play an important role in primary care. But, for too long, their skills and contributions have been overlooked in government policy. This is the reality. This is an opportunity to incentivise and encourage better utilisation of the expertise of nurses, midwives, allied health professionals and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Health workers.</para>
<para>We know that interdisciplinary care, supported by a culture that enables interprofessional working, can be transformative for patient health and wellbeing. It is so important that this legislation is sufficiently flexible to allow a broad range of models of care to be included in future programs. This flexibility is particularly important in rural and regional communities, where alternative models of care play a critical and often unique role in improving access to high-quality, equitable health outcomes.</para>
<para>Another concern that was raised through the inquiry was around the bill's use of automated decision-making powers. The Royal Australian College of General Practitioners highlighted that these concerns are serious and are genuinely held. In their submission to the inquiry, they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Decisions relating to eligibility, compliance and participation often involve complex clinical and operational circumstances that require professional judgement and cannot be adequately reduced to a set of automated rules. Eligibility determinations may involve nuanced clinical and practice-level considerations that automated processes are unlikely to fully capture, increasing the risk of inaccurate or unfair outcomes.</para></quote>
<para>Here we see, again, government pushing for automated process, thinking that an algorithm or a computer can do better than an expert, a clinician or a trained professional. Senator Allman-Payne would know a bit about this in the aged-care space. I certainly know a lot about it in the disability space. How many times do we have to learn the lesson? Automated decision-making processes that remove human beings from the loop or constrain their ability to intervene and utilise their expertise do not work. They place people at risk of harm. The private sector tech whiz-kids selling this crap to government have figured out just how to pitch it. They say that it is quicker and cheaper, that it will prevent people from challenging outcomes, improve government efficiency and deliver an improved bottom line. It's nonsense; you're falling for the con.</para>
<para>The people who will pay the price are the people who will be subjected to faulty decision-making about their aged care, their health care and the disability supports that they need. There is a reason why administrative systems in the social care spaces were built originally with the idea that human beings would get to know human beings and their unique and individual circumstances before making decisions that would affect their lives. It was recognised that, without that, there was a huge danger to health, safety and wellbeing. We must turn back. We are going the wrong way, and people will be harmed. The Greens will continue to fight automation and to fight these programs that will remove your ability to appeal, request review and articulate your expertise everywhere that the government attempts to insert them.</para>
<para>These concerns, as I say, are genuinely held. They reflect this broader pattern of government decision-making, this preference for automation. Once again, they appear to be accompanied by inadequate safeguards, human rights oversight or adequate pathways to appeal. When the analysis of these programs is ultimately written, I fear we will see yet another report identifying yet another systemic and cultural failure that put people at risk, that caused harm, injury and potentially even loss of life. We cannot just sit by and let that happen. Both sides of politics cannot say they are not now being warned. Act, for goodness's sake. Think of your loved ones subjected to these systems, and act. Use the power given to you to push back. The Greens are supportive of calls to ensure that automated decision-making in healthcare incentive payment programs is subjected to meaningful human oversight, transparent decision-making criteria and appropriate review mechanisms.</para>
<para>This bill protects, as I said, important programs that help Australians access affordable primary health care. But we must go further by making telehealth fairer, supporting nurses and allied health professionals and ensuring rural and regional communities can access the care that they need. When important decisions are being made about people's health care, there must always be human oversight, transparency and a right to review. The Greens support this bill and will continue to push for primary care systems that work for everyone.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank members for their contribution to the debate on the Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026. Medicare represents the very best of Australia. It is a system that is literally the envy of the world, allowing Australians to receive high-quality health care regardless of their bank balance. Our government is deeply committed to Medicare, deeply committed. We are strengthening Medicare because it is at the heart of universal health care. We are making it easier for Australians to see a GP for free. This bill establishes for the first time a clear and enduring legislative framework for Commonwealth primary care incentive payment programs. These programs are a central part of how the government supports access, affordability and quality in Australia's primary healthcare system, including in rural and regional communities.</para>
<para>Primary care incentive programs represent more than $1.4 billion of annual government investment. Yet a number of quite significant programs operate without a dedicated legislative scheme that is tailored to establishment, administration, compliance and review. And so, the bill before the Senate at the moment addresses that gap. It inserts a new part into the Health Insurance Act 1973, creating a consistent statutory basis for incentive payment programs while allowing detailed program settings to be dealt with in rules. That approach will give providers and government greater certainty, but it also preserves the flexibility that is necessary to keep program settings up to date as health system needs evolve. The bill establishes clear processes for participation, administration and decision-making, and that includes approval pathways, notification requirements, reconsideration rights and access to independent merits review through the Administrative Review Tribunal. It strengthens the integrity of public expenditure by applying appropriate compliance, recordkeeping, information use, civil penalty and debt recovery arrangements to these programs. Importantly, the bill does not change the underlying policy settings of existing programs. It does not alter substantive eligibility criteria or payment amounts, and existing participants are intended to transition into the new framework without any requirement to reapply.</para>
<para>The bill also supports efficient high-volume administration by enabling specified administrative action to be undertaken with the assistance of computer programs. This is subject to oversight, transparency, substituted decision safeguards and review rights. And I do want to take some time to address the remarks made by my colleague Senator Steele-John, because we should approach this discussion carefully, and a blanket assertion that the use of computers in the administration of government is dangerous is an unhelpful way to approach this debate. The government does now use and has for many years used computers to make high-volume decisions. These processes are already in place. These are essential tools of public administration, and they allow many thousands of transactions to be completed every day.</para>
<para>Raising fear about that process in the community and necessarily causing alarm about the use of computers in government is a foolish way to approach this debate. But of course we should be thoughtful about the safeguards that are necessary with any use of computers. Of course we should be careful. And this bill establishes a regime of transparency around the use of computers. I want to talk a little bit about that. The bill's automated decision framework is strictly limited to the administration of incentive payment programs. For example, it does not authorise and it cannot be used for any form of clinical decision making&#x2014;any form whatsoever. So it can't be used in relation to a patient's diagnosis, their treatment or their health care. And so to come into the chamber and to imply that perhaps it can be used for these purposes is not helpful to an informed debate. I think if we could agree on anything in this place it might be that, in 2026, what would be useful would be a debate based around fact rather than fear. And I think every senator in this place has an obligation to pursue debate on those terms.</para>
<para>The approach that we propose is intended to support efficient, timely and consistent administration of high-volume programs, and it is expected to be used for objective administrative functions. This might be assessing objective eligibility requirements and some payment calculations where the relevant criteria can be reliably applied by a computer program. For example, verifying GP practice accreditation or whether Medicare billing information indicates that a required service threshold has been met might be a way that you can reliably, predictably and safely use a computer to make a decision. Importantly, any decision that is proposed for automation must be capable of being reduced to sufficiently objective criteria. Where a matter requires individual judgement, discretion or consideration of a person's particular circumstances, like a serious compliance action, like a banning order, it will remain subject to human decision-making. This is a sensible and proportionate application of a technology that is available to us, and I think it's incumbent on people in this chamber&#x2014;we owe it to the Australian community&#x2014;to have a sensible conversation about how we use these technologies in the public interest. The bill includes strong safeguards to ensure that automation is used safely and appropriately. Only actions that are specified in rules may be automated. Importantly, automation does not displace review and reconsideration rights for providers.</para>
<para>I make these points because I do think that we are at risk of allowing this debate to descend into one based on fear and unfounded assertions rather than one based on facts. Today, I seek to put these facts on the public record in the hope that the debate may proceed in a slightly different direction from here on. I note that the bill also strengthens information sharing arrangements to support administration of program integrity while ensuring that those arrangements remain targeted, rules based and subject to appropriate protections for personal information. Importantly, this bill provides stability. Patients can continue to benefit from the outcomes of these programs and from the strengthened access to primary care that they provide.</para>
<para>A further important feature of the bill is the amendment to the short title of the Health Insurance Act 1973 to the 'Medicare Act'. This includes a transition period to support the consequential amendments and systems changes required across Commonwealth, state and territory frameworks. This is a foundational reform that will strengthen the administration, integrity and sustainability of Medicare incentive programs and help ensure that the government investment in primary care is delivered effectively.</para>
<para>I note that a number of senators have circulated and moved second reading amendments, and I thought I might use the time remaining to address the substance of those amendments. I'll turn first to the second reading amendment circulated by Senator Steele-John. The government won't be supporting this amendment. We do recognise the important role that telehealth plays, and that is especially true for vulnerable groups and for people in regional and remote Australia. There are currently more than 200 MBS items for telehealth services that are available nationally for eligible patients. They are available for consultation with a general practitioner, of course, but also with a nurse practitioner, a non-GP specialist, a consultant, a physician, an allied health provider and other providers. In the last financial year, 2025-26, more than 11 million patients received more than 35 million MBS telehealth services from more than 92,000 providers. The total benefits that were paid out for these services were $1.88 billion.</para>
<para>Current telehealth eligibility requirements reflect contemporary evidence and expert advice. They balance this with the role that telehealth plays in supporting patient access to health care. Patients are eligible for telehealth from a GP or a nurse practitioner if they have had at least one face-to-face service, either with that provider or another provider at the same practice, in the last 12 months. This reflects the evidence that telehealth is best integrated with continuous care and a relationship with the provider that is established face to face. Patients are also eligible if they are registered in MyMedicare at the practice they are receiving the service from or if they meet one of the exemptions for these requirements. The government acknowledges the very significant role that telehealth plays, but we do not support the approach suggested by Senator Steele-John in the second reading amendment that he has circulated.</para>
<para>I want to turn to the amendment circulated by Senator Ruston. The government is very proud of the record investments that we are making in Medicare and bulk-billing, and we note that, since commencing that investment and since commencing the payment incentives that we have put in place to encourage GPs to bulk-bill, we have seen very significant increases in bulk-billing across the country. This is of course immensely important because bulk-billing and the ability to see a GP for free lies at the heart of the Medicare promise. It's why we did go to the Australian people promising to invest in Medicare and promising to deal with the collapse in bulk-billing that occurred because of the previous government's negligent approach to Medicare and their hostility to Medicare. We're unapologetic about our continuing investments to drive bulk-billing so that you can see a doctor for free. We continue to invest in urgent care clinics for the same reasons.</para>
<para>Pleasingly, we are seeing more and more Australians avail themselves of the services either of a bulk-billing GP or of an urgent care clinic. We do see more and more Australians who are seeing a doctor for free. This matters. It matters because Australians should be able to access health care when they need it. They shouldn't have to worry about the cost of health care, and it's why we continue to prioritise these investments in Australia's public healthcare system.</para>
<para>We don't agree with the assertions in Senator Ruston's second reading amendment, and the government will not be supporting them. What we will do is we will continue to make investments in strengthening the Medicare system, including, as this bill does, strengthening the legislative framework that enables it. I also table an addendum to the explanatory memorandum relating to the Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026. The addendum responds to matters raised by the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Ruston be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:36]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Steele-John foreshadowed a second reading amendment. Senator Steele-John, would you like to move that now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I would. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) telehealth is an increasingly important part of Australia's health care system, and many people rely on telehealth to access healthcare when they are unable to attend appointments in person,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) to access a Medicare benefit for a telehealth consultation with a GP, a person needs to have had an in-person consultation with that practitioner within the previous 12 months, subject to very limited exceptions,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) for many disabled and chronically ill people, this in-person attendance requirement is prohibitive and can be a significant barrier to accessing affordable and ongoing healthcare, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) for people living in rural and remote areas, the requirement can mean hours of travel, substantial costs and significant time away from work, family and other responsibilities to attend an in-person appointment; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to update the telehealth rules for accessing Medicare benefits for GP appointments with a view to ensuring that disabled people, chronically ill people, and other people who cannot attend in-person appointments can access affordable and appropriate care".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Steele-John be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:39]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Slade Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. <br/>Original question, as amended, agreed to. <br/>Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3945 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 4, page 10 (line 13), at the end of subsection 54(2), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">and; (c) in the case of the Secretary&#x2014;the Secretary has had regard to any instrument in force under subsection (5); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) in the case of the Chief Executive Medicare&#x2014;the Chief Executive Medicare has had regard to any instrument in force under subsection (7).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 4, page 10 (after line 18), at the end of section 54, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Secretary must, by legislative instrument, determine guidelines in relation to the exercise of the power under subsection (1) by the Secretary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Without limiting subsection (5), the guidelines must set out the matters that the Secretary may have regard to in determining whether to exercise the power under subsection (1) in relation to an eligible provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The Chief Executive Medicare must, by legislative instrument, determine guidelines in relation to the exercise of the power under subsection (1) by the Chief Executive Medicare.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Without limiting subsection (7), the guidelines must set out the matters that the Chief Executive Medicare may have regard to in determining whether to exercise the power under subsection (1) in relation to an eligible provider.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate that the government won't be supporting the amendments on sheet 3945. The amendment is unnecessary. It proposes guidelines for the exercise of the power by the secretary and chief executive of Medicare, which will already be covered by the rules established for each incentive program.</para>
<para>This relates to section 54. It provides a power for the secretary or chief executive to approve participation in an incentive payment program without the participant having to put in an application. This is to cater for circumstances where the government already knows who is eligible for incentive payments based on information that's already held&#x2014;for example, like Medicare benefits claiming data. As an example, eligibility for the Workforce Incentive Program Doctor Stream incentivises practice in regional, rural and remote locations. That perhaps may be determined without application if it is clear from the Medicare data that doctors are billing for the eligible services in eligible locations. Approving incentive payments in this way avoids unnecessary administrative burden on providers when the government already knows that they're eligible. It ensures that eligible providers don't miss out just because they weren't aware that they were eligible.</para>
<para>This type of action can only occur when the eligible provider meets all the eligibility criteria or any other requirement outlined in the rules for that incentive payment program. Given that those rules already govern how this power is to be exercised, developing additional legislative instruments, as is proposed in the amendments presently before the Senate, in the form of guidelines is duplicative and unnecessary. It's on that basis that the government won't be supporting the amendments moved by Senator Ruston.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3945 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:50]<br/>(The Chair&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move opposition amendment (1) on sheet 3946:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 4, page 24 (after line 10), after subsection 66(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) Rules for the purposes of paragraph (1)(a) or (b) must only specify a provision that is a section, subsection, paragraph or subparagraph.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Rules for the purposes of paragraph (1)(a) and (b) specify provisions under which computer programs may take incentive payment programs administrative action for the Secretary or the Chief Executive Medicare. Specifying such provisions at the section level or lower makes easier to identify which kinds of actions are to be taken by a computer program.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment provides for greater guidance on what specific decisions can be made through automated decision-making. As I mentioned in my speech in the second reading debate, while autonomous decision-making may be appropriate for simple decisions, applying it more broadly or universally can have disastrous effects, as we have witnessed with the use of automated decision-making when it comes to the Aged Care Act. This amendment seeks to make sure that we do not see a repeat of what we've seen with the aged-care algorithm, and I would commend this amendment to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Senator Ruston has indicated, her amendment proposes specifying how a provision subject to automation is to be referred to, and the government won't be supporting this. We consider the amendment as drafted unnecessary, but it is also insufficiently broad to cover provisions that may be located in rules. I think the purpose of Senator Ruston's amendment is to ensure that provisions under which automated decision-making is taking place are sufficiently specified by the rules, and that requires, under the amendment, a provision to be specified by reference to a section, a subsection, a paragraph or a subparagraph. This is unnecessary, because we would not be able to specify a provision of the Health Insurance Act without reference to the section. So this amendment doesn't really add anything in relation to transparency. However, it could complicate rules drafting, in particular if the provision being automated sits in a schedule which isn't referred to as a 'section'.</para>
<para>I would observe, as I did in my contribution to the second reading debate, that transparency of the provisions being automated is already provided for in a series of ways in addition to specifying them in the rules. That includes notifying the person who the decision relates to that a decision was taken by a computer program, setting out the provisions that are being automated on Services Australia's website, notifying the person who the decision relates to that a computer-made decision was overridden by a human decision-maker and publishing all of those occurrences as part of the annual report.</para>
<para>I make the other broad observation that the public will be better served by a conversation around the use of computers in government administration that is based on facts rather than on fear. I am concerned that some of the contributions to this debate, either in this chamber or outside of this place, veer towards fear rather than fact. The problem with that is that computers already play an essential role in public administration. They enable thousands of transactions to take place quickly, efficiently, at a relatively low cost and in ways that are enormously helpful to the Australian public. Demonising those or falsely representing such decisions as dangerous or unsafe doesn't help the debate.</para>
<para>Nothing I say obviates the separate point that we should, of course, be cautious and use computing in government decision-making responsibly and sensibly. Everyone in this place saw what happened with robodebt. I can assure this chamber that our government will not repeat the mistakes that were made by the previous Liberal government. That scheme was illegal. It was immoral. We will not make those same mistakes. The bill that's before the chamber amongst other things sets out the transparency arrangements that we do consider are necessary when a computer is being used for automated decision-making.</para>
<para>But, I say again, we ought not let fear and fearmongering drive the tone of this kind of debate. The use of computers is already a very important part of public decision-making; it's already a practice that delivers very significant benefit to millions of Australians. We ought to be mature enough to have a sensible conversation about the safeguards that are necessary for the use of computers in government administration. I think that is an objective&#x2014;that mature conversation&#x2014;that members of this Senate could consider signing up to, should consider signing up to. We owe it to the Australian public to deliver the very best Public Service that we can. Often that will mean retaining the role for a human, perhaps for a clinician, in making a key decision. But at other times it will involve continuing the use of a computer, because that helps us. It helps everybody, and it helps us free up human resources for the tasks that matter. That's true in government, and it's true in other service systems.</para>
<para>Those are broader contributions about the way we might approach this debate, but, as I have laid out in my earlier remarks, we won't be supporting the amendment that is presently before us and that has been moved by Senator Ruston.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On the basis of the contribution that the minister has just given in relation to what I believe is a very sound amendment that's been moved by the opposition, is the minister able to give the chamber an absolute assurance that there are sufficient provisions contained within this bill to ensure that we won't see a repeat of the complete mess that has resulted with the automated decision-making processes that are contained in the Aged Care Act, which has seen much controversy about the removal of human override when it comes to the decision-making process? I raise this because of the incredible importance of the process that is fully automated in the aged-care system, and that is the decision about the assessment of the care needs and the prioritisation of care needs of older Australians. We have seen a government who have put through a bill, the Aged Care Bill, that hid much of the detail in subordinated rules that were not available for the public or for this Senate or for this parliament to scrutinise. I'm asking the minister: can you absolutely assure this parliament that we will not see a repeat of the mess that occurred in the Aged Care Act around the determination and the decision-making processes that the government put in place for automated decision-making?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I indicated in my second reading speech, any decision that is proposed for automation must be capable of being reduced to sufficiently objective criteria. Where a decision or a matter requires individual judgement, discretion or consideration of a person's particular circumstances, like serious compliance action or banning orders, it will remain subject to human decision-making. The bill includes strong safeguards to ensure automation is used safely and appropriately. Only the actions specified in rules may be automated, and, importantly, automation does not displace review and reconsideration rights for providers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek some clarification in relation to your initial comment, about objective criteria, in response to that question. That is the very problem with the aged-care automated decision-making algorithm: the objective criteria are wrong, but we were not able to see any evidence of those criteria before the algorithm was put into action and provided a series of inaccurate results for older Australians. Do you stand by the basis of my original question, which was that it was actually the objective criteria that were wrong&#x2014;albeit objective, they were still wrong&#x2014;that caused the problem?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The bill's decision-making framework is strictly limited to the administration of incentive payment programs. It does not authorise and cannot be used for any form of clinical decision-making about a patient's diagnosis, treatment or health care. More generally, it's intended to support the efficient, timely and consistent administration of high-volume incentive payment programs. It does, as I've already indicated, include multiple safeguards to ensure full transparency and accountability for automated decision-making. Only actions set out in the rules will be able to be automated. These will be subject to stakeholder consultation and to parliamentary scrutiny. Any action that requires any level of discretion will require ministerial satisfaction that it is appropriate to automate, and a standard operating procedure instrument setting out the process of how such action will be made must be made and published. There are also, as I've indicated previously, transparency requirements that include website publication of automated arrangements, notices telling affected persons when action was taken by a computer, annual reporting and powers for human decision-makers to substitute a correct or preferable decision. As I have said already, automation does not displace review and reconsideration rights for providers.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that opposition amendment (1) on sheet 3946 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:08]<br/>(The Temporary Chair&#x2014;Senator Sharma)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move opposition amendment (1) on sheet 3944:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 4, page 30 (after line 32), after Subdivision A, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Subdivision AA &#x2014; Expert advisory committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">68A Expert advisory committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must, within 6 months of the commencement of this section, establish an expert advisory committee to provide advice, and make recommendations, to the Minister about matters relating to incentive payment programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A committee under subsection (1) must be established in writing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The committee may provide advice, or make recommendations, to the Minister on its own initiative or at the request of the Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The committee consists of the members appointed by the Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Minister must, in appointing members to the committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) ensure that the composition of the committee reflects the diversity of the interests in the matter or matters that the committee will be dealing with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) ensure that the members of the committee have suitable qualifications or experience.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Minister must, in writing, determine:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the committee's terms of reference; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the terms and conditions of appointment of the members of the committee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the procedures to be followed by the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) An instrument under subsection (1) or (6) is not a legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment, which seeks to establish an expert advisory committee, is in direct response to the fact that the government has almost made an art form out of introducing legislation into this place without properly consulting those that are affected by the legislation. So what this particular amendment seeks to do is to say this to the government: if you want to use this piece of legislation, which does give you quite substantial powers, and if you want to make changes, then you have to run it through a group of experts that will actually understand the consequences of the legislation&#x2014;the changes that you are seeking to make or the powers that you are seeking give yourself under this particular piece of legislation.</para>
<para>As I said, it has been quite incredible that there has been a complaint with just about every piece of legislation of significance that has been brought into this place. The Office of Impact Analysis will often say that a piece of legislation could have benefited from further consultation with stakeholders. We hear it time and time again when we send legislation to committees. The first thing you hear from stakeholders is, 'We were not consulted about this legislation before it was put into the parliament.' The fact that we have got a government that is failing to even seek the views of people who are going to be impacted by its policies before seeking to shove them through this place is, I think, a very sad indictment on the government. It's the reason we are constantly, in this place, trying to repair faulty legislation that got pushed through without the benefit of being scrutinised by those people who are experts in the field.</para>
<para>This amendment is a reasonably small amendment, but hopefully it will start to restore some sort of confidence in the health sector in that the government will be forced to consult with the sector before making any changes. If the government were to do that, we'd probably find that legislation introduced into this place would be more fit for purpose and wouldn't require constant amendment after the event.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government won't be supporting the amendment. The amendment, as proposed, would duplicate existing consultation mechanisms and advisory bodies and would reduce flexibility in how the minister seeks expert advice on incentive payment programs. It also has the odd consequence of requiring this forum regardless of whether it is needed or whether it would be duplicative.</para>
<para>I make this point: this bill covers a range of different incentive payment programs. They are context sensitive. Each program does not have the same impact on stakeholders. The minister and the department already draw on advice from stakeholders, clinical experts, peak bodies, Services Australia and other relevant parties as they need, and, in going and seeking that advice, it is, of course, specific to the particular policy considerations, the particular issues that arise and the particular priorities that are being pursued by the relevant incentive program. So a standing committee, as envisaged by this amendment, risks duplicating existing consultation mechanisms and advisory bodies even while not actually providing the particular policy guidance and input that would be required should policy adjustments be required. If we think about existing bodies, for example, the Strengthening Medicare Implementation Oversight Committee was established to consider the broader reform program. That includes workforce incentives and after-hours services matters. That body already provided advice and recommendations on incentive program reforms, and it continues to provide advice on delivery of reform objectives. I note also that the proposed provisions do not specify membership, scope, reporting obligations, decision-making status or interaction with existing advisory bodies, which would create additional uncertainty not just about this proposed entity but about other existing advisory arrangements.</para>
<para>The minister can already establish advisory groups. The minister can already consult expert stakeholders. The minister can already seek targeted advice as needed without requiring a statutory obligation in the Health Insurance Act. Of course the government wants to hear from stakeholders when we're developing policy in this portfolio or in any portfolio. Of course we're committed to meaningful stakeholder engagement. Our view is that stakeholder engagement should be fit for purpose. It should be targeted. It should be relevant to the actual policy issues under consideration. It should be able to be responsive to the matters that are before the government at the time. We do not consider that that is best achieved through a fixed statutory committee model, and it's on that basis that we won't be supporting the amendment proposed by Senator Ruston.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for your response to what I believe is a very sound amendment. In your contribution, you made the statement that the minister can set up advisory groups and engage in consultation with stakeholders and that he has the powers to do all manner of things to engage the sector when it comes to legislation. He may well have the powers, but he does not use them. You say you want to hear from stakeholders. Well, you can't hear from stakeholders unless you actually tell them what you're seeking to get their advice on prior to making a decision, because consultation following a decision is really nothing more than an information-giving exercise. It is not consultation.</para>
<para>I raise this in the context of another piece of health legislation that is before this parliament, and no piece of legislation could be a clearer example of this government's absolute refusal to consult with the sector before moving substantial changes that will have an impact on millions and millions of Australians. That is the decision of the government to change the arrangements in relation to the private health insurance rebate for people over the age of 65. We've just travelled around the country, and we have met with many, many stakeholders. We have had many submissions. Whether they be from individuals or from members of the health community who will be impacted, whether that be doctor groups, the private health insurers themselves, the private hospital sector and the specialists that work there or older Australians who are impacted by this, their families and the communities that support them&#x2014;every single one of those stakeholders had no knowledge whatsoever of this policy change and this legislation until after they were put on the table by the minister.</para>
<para>So you will excuse the coalition's and the opposition's inability to take you at your word when you talk about the fact that you will be consulting in relation to any changes that are enabled as a part of this particular legislation. You'll excuse our cynicism about your genuine preparedness to actually undertake consultation, because of your track record as a government when it comes to consultation and transparency, your track record when it comes to burying things in the rules that we don't get to see until after the legislation is passed and your inability to even tell the truth about what has actually been provided in terms of advice to the government.</para>
<para>I draw the chamber's attention to the fact that the minister went out and told every single Australian that 44,000 people were estimated to drop their private health insurance cover as a result of the changes for the over-65s PHI rebate. We now find out through freedom of information&#x2014;not through any other process but because of a freedom-of-information request&#x2014;that that number is actually 78,000. That is 78,000 older Australians who are going to drop their private health cover. And that doesn't include anybody who's going to downgrade their cover. So you will excuse me, as I said, for being incredibly cynical about taking in anything that this government says in relation to an assurance that they are actually going to consult. The government has a track record of not only not consulting but actually providing false information into the public domain and only backtracks on that public information's inaccuracy when it's called out by something like a freedom-of-information request, an order for the production of documents or a Parliamentary Budget Office paper that contradicts what the government said.</para>
<para>So I would say to the chamber and particularly those other than the government in this place: we need greater scrutiny of what the government's doing, and we need stakeholders to have greater capacity to be involved in decision-making. The habitual failure of this government to do the homework before they put a policy into the public domain is why we are seeing problem after problem after problem, and it's why we're having to see the government backflip, backflip, backflip on so many things that they put into this parliament. So I think it would be very wise for the government to actually say: 'We are prepared to be consultative in this process. We are prepared to engage with stakeholders.' And one way in which you could get the confidence of stakeholder groups back is to support this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I simply wish to respond briefly to the contribution made by Senator Ruston. You never, of course, want to let the facts get in the way of a good story! For example, as I've already indicated, the government has established a Strengthening Medicare Implementation Oversight Committee. It is considering the broader reform program that does include workforce incentive and after-hours services matters. It has already provided advice to government. It has provided recommendations to government on incentive program reforms.</para>
<para>The government is committed to engaging with stakeholders. We engaged with stakeholders in the development of the bill that's before us at the moment, and we'll continue to do that. But we reiterate that that is best done in response to the actual matters, the actual policy questions, that are before the government at any time. That's not enabled by a rigid statutory model. We don't consider it necessary, and we don't intend to vote for the amendment that has been circulated by Senator Ruston.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendment (1) on sheet 3944 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:28] <br/>(The Temporary Chair&#x2014;Senator Sharma) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J. N.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br/>Progress reported.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>We will now move to senators' statements.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>45</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Western Australian families face rising costs of living, inflation is placing additional pressure on household budgets. At the same time, the state is facing an unprecedented shortage of skilled tradespeople as the AUKUS program builds up and gathers pace. I recently visited Rockingham to hear firsthand about the infrastructure needed to support AUKUS. The challenge is significant, and it cannot be left to local governments to shoulder the burden alone. Both the Cook and Albanese Labor governments have been slow to recognise the consequences of their inaction. Essential road infrastructure remains inadequate, and workforce planning has failed to keep pace with future demand. The implications extend beyond Rockingham. Those challenges affect communities across Perth's south metropolitan region.</para>
<para>According to the <inline font-style="italic">West Australian</inline> newspaper, the redevelopment of the Australian Marine Complex and surrounding areas highlights the sheer scale of the task ahead. It is expected to consume three times the amount of concrete used annually by Perth residential builders alone. That scale of development demands long-term planning and early investment. Yet, as usual, the Cook Labor government is playing catch-up. First, it turned the proposed Garden Island Highway extension project into a bin fire, with a study that resembled a child's homework assignment. Now it's scrambling to develop the statewide workforce plan needed for Henderson's shipbuilding and submarine maintenance work. Meanwhile, commuters face daily traffic congestion, while the defence sector competes directly with the resources industry for skilled workers. The MBA of WA is right to call for major investment in skills and training, but Labor must also demonstrate vision. It must show political courage, and, most importantly, it must get on with the job and deliver the infrastructure and the workforce planning that should have begun years ago. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Raise Our Voice in Parliament</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This week, senators in this place will have a chance to read speeches written by young people in our communities as part of the Raise Our Voice campaign. I'm pleased to be, I think, the first one kicking this off today. I'm going to read a speech from 15-year-old Zainab, a Queenslander who is passionate about strengthening social media protections. Her speech reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What if the apps we use every day were designed not to help us live better but to keep us online for as long as possible? For my generation, social media is not something that exists outside our lives; it's where we communicate, learn, create and express ourselves. But it can also expose young people to harmful content, unrealistic expectations and systems deliberately designed to keep us scrolling.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We should not have to choose between being connected and being protected. I am asking parliament to strengthen protections for young Australians by requiring social media companies to take greater responsibility for the content and design of their platforms. This should include stronger safeguards against harmful content, and greater transparency around features designed to maximise screen time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Young people should have a voice in shaping these protections, because we are the generation growing up with this technology. Social media is not going away, and I don't believe it needs to, but innovation should never come at the expense of young people's wellbeing. Parliament has the power to make sure technology serves our generation rather than our generation being shaped by technology. Our future deserves better than an algorithm deciding what we see, what we think and what we become.</para></quote>
<para>I thank Zainab for that wonderful speech and that contribution to a really important debate&#x2014;a debate about protecting young people online. This is the voice of a young person posed directly to the parliament, calling on this parliament to do exactly that: to take action to protect young Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment: Coral Harvesting</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BLEYER</name>
    <name.id>25813</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've spent my life fighting against the logging of our native forests, but there is another, equally destructive activity occurring in our oceans. Fifty-nine licence holders have been granted access to nearly two-thirds of the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park, where they drag 190 tonnes of coral to shore every year. You can say that coral reefs are the native forests of the ocean. Like native-forest logging, removal of coral is called 'harvesting', but, instead of blades and diggers, these harvesters use hammers and chisels to rip corals from our reef. Remember, corals are living creatures. Like in wood-chipping our native forests for exports, about 85 per cent of these corals are sold overseas. The corals that remain on the Great Barrier Reef are resilient. They have had to be. They've survived bleaching, cyclones and floods and persistent agricultural pollution. It is nonsensical to allow our wild, resilient corals to be shipped off to stock aquariums overseas when at the same time this Labor government is reaching into the taxpayer's pocket to spend $200 million on tank-grown, heat-tolerant corals to replace the ones that are lost to mass bleaching events. Much like timber plantations can transition us away from native-forest logging, onshore aquaculture can do the same for coral being sold for aquariums.</para>
<para>These precious places belong to us all, and the responsibility for protecting the place that is the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park belongs to this federal Labor government. It needs to protect it and stop plundering this precious place for the profits of a few.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government's recent backflips on public policy reveal why it is now considered to be the worst since the Whitlam government. Among the biggest backflips was Labor's most recent retreat from its proposal to slash Commonwealth disaster-recovery funding. Labor wanted to replace the longstanding arrangement&#x2014;where Canberra contributes up to 75 per cent of eligible disaster recovery costs&#x2014;with an incredibly unfair fifty-fifty split. For Queensland, as Australia's most disaster-prone state, it would have been devastating. It would have shifted enormous costs onto remote councils, communities and ratepayers already struggling to recover from floods and cyclones. But Queensland councils refused to surrender. All 77 councils joined the fight. They stood together. They kept the pressure on Canberra and refused to accept a policy that would punish communities and leave them worse off.</para>
<para>I congratulate those councils, their mayors and councillors, and the Local Government Association of Queensland. They demonstrated what local leadership can achieve, particularly given that their local Labor MPs were completely missing in action. Why weren't they fighting with the same determination? Instead, these councils were exposed, first-hand, to the worst of Labor's Canberra-focused, autocratic and anti-regions approach to lawmaking.</para>
<para>Labor was forced into another retreat recently over the Australian Tax Office's plans to stop accepting credit card payments, which was put on hold after an outcry from small business. Then there was Labor's extraordinary attempt to impose a $5,000 annual threshold on veterans' allied health treatments. After fierce opposition from veterans and their advocates, Labor abandoned that proposal too. Australians are sick of these attacks and Labor's half-hearted attempts to make&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(</inline><inline font-style="italic">Time e</inline><inline font-style="italic">xpired</inline><inline font-style="italic">)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scouts Tasmania</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DOWLING</name>
    <name.id>55842</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Some lessons stay with you for life. One of mine is 'Always be prepared.' I learnt that growing up in Tasmania as a proud member of the Lindisfarne Cub Scout group. That lesson has stayed with me. While my knot-tying skills leave a little to be desired and I wouldn't even back myself to start a camp fire these days, the lesson of being prepared has stayed with me.</para>
<para>Last week, I met Scouts Tasmania's chief commissioner, Phil Harper, at the Lea Scout Centre in Kingston. That's a place where I remember learning some of those knot-tying skills very early on, some 30 years ago, as a young Scout, and it was good to be back and hear the difference that Scouting continues to make for young Tasmanians and those across the country. Scouts Tasmania supports around 1,300 young people, helping them build resilience, leadership skills and confidence. This isn't just nostalgia talking. Research by Resilient Youth Australia found that Scouts were more likely to face up to problems, to help others and to talk to someone when they're upset. They also reported being more positive, better able to cope with life and less likely to use devices overnight. At a time when we're concerned about young people's mental health, social connection and screen time, these findings are particularly encouraging. Those are the skills that last long after the badges are earned and the tents are packed away.</para>
<para>The Lea centre itself is a valuable community asset, hosting school camps, outdoor education and activities for community groups. None of this would be possible without the dedicated volunteers who give their time helping young Tasmanians, and I thank them for their service. More than a century on, Scouts are still preparing young Tasmanians not just for their next adventure but for life. I'll finish with an old Cub Scout call: 'Dyb, dyb, dyb. Dob, dob, dob. Do your best. Do our best.'</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last month, the Australia Institute stated that big government serves the interests of everyday Australians and small government only serves the rich. The point was to attack as 'neoliberal' policies that One Nation is promoting. It fails to understand One Nation's central belief that an economy run for the benefit of the people will grow wealth and abundance for all, reducing the need for government support as people take care of themselves. It fails to understand that it's not the size of government but what government does that counts. The Australia Institute advocates an inheritance tax to target, in their words, 'the untaxed compounding of intergenerational wealth'. One Nation calls that wealth that parents build up during a lifetime of hard work 'people getting ahead'. That's what it is. It's what parents do: work hard and pass the benefit to their children.</para>
<para>The political left hate people becoming self-sufficient, because economic resilience removes subservience to government. The fundamental difference between One Nation and Labor-Greens socialism is economic independence. Small business is in the Australia Institute's sights, with a proposed two per cent wealth tax on assets over $5 million. Not income&#x2014;assets. The losers from this include farmers, truckers, restaurants, fishers, fast food franchisees and childcare workers. These Australians are asset rich and income poor. Paying a $100,000 annual tax would force them out of business.</para>
<para>One Nation rejects a wealth tax and an inheritance tax. The Albanese Labor government listened to the Australia Institute when they advocated recent capital gains tax changes. The Treasurer needs to stop pushing socialism. Founded on ideology not economics, these changes have caused a housing price crash, wiping billions from our national estate and placing many young Australians who used the five per cent deposit scheme in negative equity. Thanks, Treasurer. Now please stop helping. Enough! Bring on the next election so that One Nation can slay the socialist dragon. <inline font-style="italic">(</inline><inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline><inline font-style="italic">)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bali: Attacks</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Twenty-four years ago, on 12 October 2002, Australians awoke to news of an act of terrorism that would leave an enduring scar on our nation. The Bali bombings claimed 202 innocent lives, including 88 Australians. Of those, 16 were Western Australians.</para>
<para>For Western Australia, the tragedy was deeply personal. Just days earlier, 20 young men from the Kingsley Amateur Football Club in Perth's northern suburbs had travelled to Bali to celebrate the club's first premiership. Only 13 came home. Seven Kingsley teammates were killed&#x2014;almost half of the Western Australians who lost their lives that night. Their loss devastated families, friends, a football club and an entire community. But, in the years since, Kingsley has also demonstrated something enduring about Western Australians: our instinct to rally around each other in times of great tragedy. We remember the courage shown that night and in the days that followed: survivors helping the injured, and Indonesian medical staff and local people and Australian police, Defence personnel and emergency personnel responding to unimaginable scenes.</para>
<para>The bombings changed Australia and strengthened our resolve to confront terrorism alongside our Indonesian neighbours, but they did not break us. As Prime Minister John Howard said in Bali days later, the Australian spirit remained 'strong and free and open and tolerant'. Twenty-four years on, we remember the 202 lives taken, the survivors who carried the scars and the families and communities who still feel their absence, and in Western Australia we especially remember our 16, including seven young mates from Kingsley who went away together to celebrate a premiership but never came home.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmanian Government</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In my eyes, Tasmania always comes first, but we recently found out that Tasmania has ranked dead last in the Commonwealth Bank's rankings of each state, down three places in a single year. Unemployment has jumped from 3.8 to 5.1 per cent, the biggest rise in the nation. Fewer people and businesses bought from us this year than last year, with sales down by more than three per cent. Every other state and territory held steady or grew, so we were the only state that went backwards.</para>
<para>Here's the difference: one government is giving to Tasmanians; the other is taking away. The Albanese Labor government has delivered an additional $705 million for Tasmania's public hospitals, bringing the Commonwealth's total funding to $5.1 billion. We've rolled out eight Medicare urgent care clinics, with more than 200,000 free visits, taking pressure off our emergency departments. This Labor government is funding new health hubs in Burnie and Smithton, bringing care closer to home. That is a government investing in Tasmanians.</para>
<para>The state Liberals have cut education. They want to cut $700 million from our health system. Bowel cancer is on the rise, but you might need to wait for 1,000 days to get a screening test in Tasmania. That just isn't good enough. These are the sectors we know create growth. They're focused on cutting jobs, not creating them. You can't build an economy by starving it. Yet, for a billionaire, the Tasmanian chequebook opens. We recently found out that one company effectively leases the MyState Bank Arena for less than 30 grand a year, less than it costs to rent a house in Glenorchy. One government builds hospitals and clinics; the other builds sweetheart deals and starves the economy. Tasmanians deserve better. They deserve a Labor state government.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Raise Our Voice in Parliament</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is my privilege and pleasure to read out a speech today as part of the Raise Our Voice in Parliament campaign. Sara, 14, from New South Wales says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Hello Australia,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a kid, it sometimes feels impossible for adults to change their mind. You give your best explanation, over 1,000 of you can skip school and take a stand for something you believe in. At best: nothing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At worst adults accuse other adults of 'manipulating the youth into their politics'. Because I am a child, my feelings don't matter, my observations are useless. I "don't have life experience" or I'm "being indoctrinated"&#x2014;actual quotes from the comments section on a 7News report on students' rallies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's confusing. I know every single adult has been a kid just like me, feeling like sometimes the adults just don't listen. So why don't they now? Just because we haven't lived as long as you doesn't mean we haven't lived at all. We feel, think, observe, see, we're not stupid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This speech isn't just about parents and teachers, it's about you. This competition is a step forward, but it's annual.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Kids have many thoughts and opinions that deserve to be expressed beyond this, including speeches not being read today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Start a call-line, an Email, host this bi-annually. I'm not asking for much, I'm just asking for us, all of us, to be heard and taken seriously. What's shaping our future? Well I want it to be me. I want it to be us: kids. We can only do that if you listen.</para></quote>
<para>I must say, it's hard to disagree with Sara. And I hope parliament is listening.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Public Service</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>People often ask me why Australia never changes&#x2014;why it doesn't change direction. It doesn't matter who wins an election; it all stays the same. Labor out, Liberals in; Liberals out, Labor in&#x2014;different politicians, same disastrous results. Here's why, in my opinion.</para>
<para>What we call democracy has become political theatre. Politicians come and go, but the bureaucrats remain. Donald Trump calls it the deep state. You know what I call it? The Public Service&#x2014;that's what I call it. These unelected officials advise governments, shape policy and maintain enormous influence, regardless of who wins the election and whose name is on the big office.</para>
<para>Consider eSafety, established under the coalition and continued under Labor, or net zero, embraced by the Liberals and enthusiastically pursued by Labor. Consider the misinformation legislation, the idea of which was drafted under the coalition, then advanced by Labor; it didn't get up, obviously, but it was still there. Different parties&#x2014;same agenda.</para>
<para>And then there are the career politicians&#x2014;people who have spent their entire lives as party staffers, climbing factional ladders, following orders and never challenging the machine. Eventually they're rewarded with preselection. And we're supposed to believe that these professional followers will suddenly become independent leaders. Fat chance, I reckon!</para>
<para>Australia needs parliamentarians who've actually lived in the real world&#x2014;people who have run businesses, raised families, paid mortgages and met payrolls; people with a staunch point of view, independence and enough backbone to tell bureaucrats no. Elected reps, not bureaucrats, are supposed to decide the direction of the nation. Changing Australia requires more than swapping Labor for Liberal or Liberal for Labor&#x2014;and back and forth it goes. We must restore the Public Service to its proper role and elect politicians prepared to lead rather than obey.</para>
<para>Australians are waking up, and that's why the political landscape is fracturing. But, for those of us determined to rescue Australia from decades of decline, these are exciting times. One nation or no nation.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Israel Attacks: Third Anniversary</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last Wednesday, we paused to mark the third anniversary of Hamas's October 7 terror attacks on Israel. Hamas murdered some 1,200 people&#x2014;the largest loss of Jewish life on any single day since the Holocaust. Families were torn apart. Hundreds were taken hostage. Young people who had gathered at a music festival were hunted down. We remember all of them: those who were murdered and those who were taken. We remember Australian Galit Carbone, whose life was stolen, and we hold her family close as they endure each day without her.</para>
<para>For those who lost someone dear, no day since has been easy, and we know anniversaries carry their own weight. For Jewish Australians, that weight is heavier this year, as we soon mark one year since the antisemitic terror attack at Bondi. To the Jewish community here and around the world: Australia stands with you. We stand against antisemitism and terror in all its forms. We unequivocally condemn the terror of Hamas, and we continue to call for Hamas to disarm and for it to have no role in the future of Palestine.</para>
<para>After such terrible suffering and loss of civilian life, Australia will keep pressing for the implementation of the Gaza peace plan and a two-state solution where Israelis and Palestinians can live peacefully and securely within internationally recognised borders. As the Prime Minister has said, such a future would be the greatest victory of humanity over hatred. And it is a future we must strive for together.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Israel Attacks: Third Anniversary</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Three years ago, on 7 October 2023, Hamas terrorists crossed from Gaza into Israel and carried out the deadliest attack on the Jewish people since the Holocaust. They attacked with guns, grenades and knives, and they wore body cameras and took mobile phones to film what they did. They felt no guilt. They acted with glee. They murdered more than 1,200 innocent men, women and children. Young people were massacred at the Nova music festival. Families were butchered in their homes. Rape was used as a weapon. Some 250 people were dragged into Gaza as hostages and endured the most unimaginable captivity. Today, we remember every one of them, as we did on October 7. We remember those who were murdered, the survivors who still live with the horror of that day, the hostages and the families who continue to grieve. We must also remember the facts and stand up for the truth. Even now, there were those who downplay, deny and even defend what Hamas did. They try to cast Israel as the villain and Hamas as the victim. That loss of moral clarity fuels antisemitism. Australians know this because that hatred came to our shores.</para>
<para>In December of last year at Bondi Beach, Jewish families gathered to celebrate the first night of Hanukkah, and they were targeted by terrorists, and 15 innocent people were slaughtered on Bondi Beach. It was an attack on Jewish Australians and an attack on all of us. Hate has no place in this country, and the coalition will never be silent whilst Australians are targeted for who they are. To the people of Israel and to the Jewish community who are dear and valued Australians, we stand with you always. Never again means exactly that. Never again.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Freedom of Information</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before the Albanese government were elected in 2022, they promised the Australian people that they would strengthen our freedom-of-information laws. They promised they would be more transparent. They promised that they would do a better job than the Morrison government. They are now halfway through their second term and not only have they done nothing to protect Australia's freedom-of-information laws, but they are trying to make it harder for Australians to access documents. It's as simple as that.</para>
<para>Last year, they brought a bill on which they said was an FOI reform package&#x2014;yes, funny!&#x2014;but it was, in fact, a bill designed to weaken our FOI laws in favour of the government so it can be even less transparent. That bill had no mates, and I wonder why. Thanks to the pressure from the crossbench and civil society groups, the government shelved that bill in February this year. Now, they are trying to scare Australian citizens off putting in an FOI request in the first place.</para>
<para>In the past three months, two FOI wins by former senator Rex Patrick have been appealed to the Federal Court, with one of those orders being sought for costs if the citizen is unsuccessful in defending his win. If this precedent stands, it means that Australians could be facing costs even if, like Rex, they won their case. In other words, even if you win your FOI case, you still lose big time. See you later to the house you're living in. Australians know the term coercive control. What the federal Labor government is doing is financial coercion. As Geoffrey Watson told the media today: 'This is a typical litigation tactic of the well-heeled bully. It says it all.'</para>
<para>I am introducing a bill that will ensure that the government meets a citizen's reasonable legal costs if it appeals the citizen's FOI win to the Federal Court from either the information commissioner or the Administrative Review Tribunal. Australians have lost trust in this government and lost trust in politicians. Behaviour like this is not helping. If the government want to get people to trust them, then they should stop this financial coercion now and support the bill.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Crimes Amendment (Prohibiting Shackling During Childbirth) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="s1507" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Crimes Amendment (Prohibiting Shackling During Childbirth) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Surprise, surprise! Labor and the coalition don't want to pass my bill banning shackling of people during childbirth when it's voted on this Thursday. As usual, they're handballing it to states and territories. It's a joke. States and territories are racing to be as cruel as possible to people in prison. If Labor doesn't show leadership, states and territories will never change. What part of rehabilitation is this? It only causes more harm. How many more people will have to go through this? How many more babies will be put at risk? Governments love talking about 'do the crime' and 'do the time'. What crimes have these unborn babies committed? Why are they subjected to danger and life-long trauma?</para>
<para>Overwhelming evidence to the inquiry said this bill is urgent, state and territory policies have failed and Commonwealth action is necessary. Shackling during childbirth was described as barbaric, convict era, cruel and degrading. Evidence was clear that the Commonwealth government has powers to stop it. This open letter, signed by thousands of people, calls on the government to pass this bill, and it's backed by the obstetricians and gynaecologists college, the nursing union, the midwives board and many, many others. Implementing this bill doesn't require any big overhaul or massive cost. Labor, you have the opportunity to end a barbaric, inhumane, outdated practice. Senators in this chamber on Thursday, if you don't pass this bill, you are all voting for literal torture of unborn babies and their parents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Health</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> () (): The Women's Health Committee has received over 1,200 submissions, some of them representing the voices of hundreds more women&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Banking and Financial Services</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Does the Prime Minister seriously expect Australia's small businesses to believe his promise that banning credit card surcharges will save them money, when his own tax office decided that the very same policy was so financially damaging it would stop accepting credit card payments altogether?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll make a few points. The first point is a point about transparency. We as a government do think that it's important that the charges that people are paying are transparent and predictable, and that was not the case. I would also make the point Australians were paying around $1.6 billion a year in surcharges. I would also make the point that, as part of these reforms, there are lower fees now charged to process transactions, and the saving from that to business will be about $910 million. We're very conscious of the challenges that small business faces. I would make the point that 84 per cent of businesses did not surcharge before these changes. Obviously, those businesses are benefiting from lower fees charged to process transactions. And the major banks have already announced reductions in merchant fees. Westpac has cut fees by 41 basis points, and other major banks have also cut&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Coffee's gone up!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm just wondering if Senator Ruston is ever going to draw breath. She keeps interjecting on her own leader's question.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Opposition senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Opposition senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A bit of tension! In relation to the ATO, as we said, we do think that a transition period and engagement with small business is necessary. The government has stepped in to ensure that that transition is longer, to allow businesses time to adjust, and we look forward to those discussions continuing in the transition period, which we have extended.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Isn't it the height of hypocrisy that the ATO decided it couldn't afford to absorb credit card processing fees, but the Albanese government expects Australia's struggling small businesses to do precisely that?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>():&#xA0;&#xA0;Thank you, Senator Cash. Minister Wong well. I make a few points. First, obviously the ATO is bound very clearly to levy tax in accordance with its statutory framework. The second point I'd make is that the majority of businesses&#x2014;and I'll just give Senator Cash that figure again, which is 84 per cent of businesses&#x2014;did not surcharge before these changes. Now, we accept there is a proportion of business that was imposing these charges. They obviously will gain some benefit from merchant fees being reduced, but there is a need for a proportion of small businesses to utilise credit cards in the context of the tax system. There has been a change on that. We recognise that comes with certain implications, which is why the transition period has been extended.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, the Albanese government has yet again been forced into another humiliating backdown, this time delaying the ATO's proposed credit card ban until 30 June 2027. Will the Prime Minister now direct the ATO to scrap it all together and accept credit card payments once again, heeding the calls from small businesses right across this country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, I know that those opposite have really thrown any kind of economic and fiscal responsibility out of the window&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about small businesses?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No. You would know that that would come at a cost to the taxpayer.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about small businesses?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What I have said to you is that we recognise that 16 per cent of businesses were applying.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Give yourselves an award!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, I had just got the chamber to order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I'd make the point that the coalition have been advocating for less government spending but in here come and advocate for more of it. At some point you actually have to make the sums add up. We know that last time their response was to go to the election with higher taxes and a higher deficit. That appears to be the same approach today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer. Senator Gallagher. Last month the Albanese Labor government released the Final Budget Outcome for 2025-26, which shows an improvement in the budget bottom line compared to what was forecast in the budget. How has the government repaired the budget since coming to government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Darmanin for that important question. As senators would know, the Final Budget Outcome that the Treasurer and I released a couple of weeks ago shows the deficit comes in $6 billion better than forecast at budget time. We have delivered a stronger budget than we inherited in every year since we have been in office.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Opposition senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Opposition senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know it's an inconvenient truth for you over there, but they're the facts. The budget over the last four years has been $230 billion, or almost a quarter of a trillion dollars, better than what we inherited. And the outcome shows that the Albanese Labor government is the government that is responsible for the budget repair&#x2014;indeed, for delivering two surpluses when those opposite couldn't deliver one&#x2014;and for improving the budget bottom line in every year since.</para>
<para>We have limited real spending growth. It has averaged two per cent over the four years we've been in government, which is half of what our predecessors averaged. We have delivered substantial savings and reprioritisations of around $178 billion since we came to government in 2022, including $23.8 billion in 2025-26. We have returned about 75 per cent of all tax receipt upgrades to the budget bottom line. At the same time, whilst repairing the budget responsibly, we've made room for significant investments to support households with cost-of-living pressures and to strengthen Medicare and housing. In addition to that, we've been dealing with automatic spending pressures across social security payments, natural disasters, veterans payments and aged care.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Darmanin, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that, Minister. What approach has the Albanese Labor government taken to finding savings as an important part of responsible budget management, despite the pressures on the budget increasing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note those opposite find that question funny, about finding savings. You found none! You increased the debt, two-thirds of which was increased before the COVID pandemic, though you'd like to rewrite those facts as well. On an almost daily basis, we see commitments from the opposition to spend more&#x2014;no savings, spend more; let's just spend a whole lot more. On their logic alone, that would be worse for the economy right now.</para>
<para>We have found significant savings because it's the right thing to do to make sure the budget has room to meet the pressures that we need to deal with in our economy, whether it be in defence, NDIS, social security, health care or aged care. That is what a responsible government does: it finds savings to fund the areas of need.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Darmanin, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DARMANIN</name>
    <name.id>301128</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How is the Albanese Labor government continuing its work to strengthen the budget position in the lead-up to the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We'll continue the approach that we've taken in the previous budgets in MYEFO, where we will look to continue to find savings, and that work is underway now. We recognise that getting the budget in better shape&#x2014;and we have done so&#x2014;is important if we are to meet the very significant funding pressures that are coming our way. Now, the pressures on the budget are not decreasing; they are increasing in almost every area. They are increasing in aged care, in health care, in defence, in national security&#x2014;in all of those important areas that the government needs to fund. In order to do that, we need to tighten our belt and find savings in other areas of government administration. That's what we've done to date, with $178 billion worth of savings and reprioritisations, and you'll see that approach continued in MYEFO.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Small Business</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Prime Minister, before the last election, said, 'Small business should be backing Labor in this campaign,' and, 'We are making sure small businesses get looked after.' Minister, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry's latest survey found that the negative impact of red tape on small business has increased. There are rising costs through fees and charges, pressures on cash flows and burdensome compliance and employment costs, all placing greater pressure on businesses. Is this what the Prime Minister meant when he told small businesses that he would take care of them?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to get a question from the deputy leader of the Liberal Party and the senator for higher taxes and higher deficits.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't you answer the question rather than go personal, Penny?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Don't worry; I will. What I'm interested in is that that culture and that intellectual contribution to the opposition appear to be continuing under the Taylor-Hume leadership. It is very clear, with the promises that have already been made by the opposition, that the Senator Hume approach of higher taxes and larger deficits is going to continue under the Taylor opposition.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's on relevance&#x2014;any relevance.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hume. I will direct the minister back to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In the last financial year, we saw more than 85,000 new businesses added to the economy, almost all of which are small businesses. I'm asked about&#x2014;</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How many have gone under?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, you asked me a question; I'm seeking to answer it. Either we can have a debate or I can answer the question. Compared to 2022, which is, I think, relevant to your question, there are over 265,000 more active small businesses today. I would make the point that we do know that the economic circumstances are difficult, that the environment for both business and wage earners is difficult and that inflation is challenging, for all the reasons that the Treasurer and the finance minister have outlined. We are seeking to do what we are able to do, including in relation to small business. In fact, in the budget, the Treasurer announced some $3.8 billion in new practical measures to assist business.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, Labor ministers, including you, Senator Wong, had three different positions on the burden that Labor has placed on small businesses by removing the ability for them to use credit cards to pay their tax. First it was that you would consult, then it was that you couldn't direct the ATO and now you've told the ATO to delay the change. Is this why the Prime Minister believes that small business should be backing Labor?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to why small businesses should be backing Labor, I want to run through a list of some of the things we've delivered. There is the $20,000 instant asset write-off, which is permanent, and the two-year loss carry back, which is now permanent. This is a measure that we introduced in 2011 and a measure that you unwound in office. Now we are making these tax measures, which benefit small business, permanent. We've introduced loss refundability for startups. There are tax cuts for about 1.5 million sole traders, including the new working Australians tax offset. We've expanded tax incentives for venture capital and are expanding CGT concessions to all 2.7 million small businesses and 98 per cent of all active businesses. We are reforming the R&amp;D tax incentives, and we are cutting regulatory costs by over $10 billion. And, as I recall, you opposed the first tranche of&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before the last election, the Prime Minister said, 'Small businesses are the lifeblood of the economy.' The Australian Bureau of Statistics now reports that the number of businesses closing in the economy has increased every single year under Labor. Is the Prime Minister concerned that the lifeblood is draining from our economy under your watch?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First, I again go back to the point I made, which is that we actually have more active small businesses today than we had when we were elected. I know that is an inconvenient fact for you, Senator Hume, but those are the facts. There is no doubt that we want to continue to focus on how it is that we can ensure that this important part of the economy continues to be able to operate and to thrive. You would have seen some of the measures that we have taken that I've outlined. We've also provided targeted relief in the context of the fuel supply crisis and access to mandatory standards to assess the impact of regulations on small business, so there is work being done in the context of an economy which we acknowledge is facing some challenges but primarily as a consequence of the war in the&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wages and Salaries</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister. Minister, wages are going backwards under the Albanese government. Right now, people in Australia are earning, in real terms, no more than they had in 2011, falling back to where they were 15 years ago, while people work longer, take on two jobs and see their lives getting harder. How do you explain the Albanese Labor government's failure to increase real wages?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Shoebridge. I'll take the opportunity to congratulate you, Senator Shoebridge and Senator Hodgins-May, on your election. It's a real honour to lead the party in this place, and I acknowledge your election.</para>
<para>In relation to real wages, we obviously have done an enormous amount of work to do what we could to improve Australians' wages, and you've seen the benefits of that. You've seen the benefits of that particularly in the care economy. You've seen the benefits of that for early childhood educators. You've seen the benefits of that in a whole range of care economy professions that Senator Walsh speaks about regularly. As a consequence of that, we have seen the gender pay gap reduce. That is a good thing. We have also, as a government, ensured that there have been increases in the minimum wage, and, unlike those opposite, we do not take the view that low wages are a deliberate design feature of our economy and that we want them to continue.</para>
<para>But you would know, Senator, that the government does not control inflation, particularly inflation that is primarily driven by the largest impact on global energy markets that the world has seen, with consequences throughout our economy. We also know that continuing to invest to remove the capacity constraints in the economy is a focus of this government&#x2014;hence our investment in infrastructure and in human capital. There is no magic wand which will ensure that we can simply wave away inflation&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. While wages are flatlining, the cost of almost everything else is on the rise&#x2014;energy, food, rent, mortgages, insurance. And yet we see corporate profits on the rise, extracting more and more from people with less and less. Why has Labor doubled down on an economy where it's only corporate profits, not real wages, that increase on your watch?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is just untrue. I did read some of your comments when you were first elected as leader, including on these and related issues and including in relation to One Nation, and I would make the point that, unlike you, I would actually work with you to ensure that they are politically defeated. You would rather attack Labor. That really does say something about who you're prepared to work with. Very progressive position to do that!</para>
<para>The reality is we have seen living standards that were falling when we came to office. We have seen that we have worked through the range of measures that I've outlined to increase real incomes. We're pleased that real incomes per capita have grown faster in this country than most of the G7 nations. There is more work to. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, thanks for the gratuitous advice, but, under the Albanese Labor government, inequality is at an historic high, with the top one per cent having hoarded more wealth than half the Australian population combined&#x2014;more than half. You refuse to tax record profits and won't touch corporate tax or gas taxes or even consider a billionaire tax. Is it just a coincidence that those who benefit from your inaction also fund your election campaigns? Just a coincidence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When we came to government, I think we were ranked 43rd in the world when it comes to gender equality. We're now ranked eighth, and that is because of the commitment on this side of the chamber and particularly the work of Senator Gallagher to try to improve equity in this country, because we are about fairness. No amount of political rhetoric will change that. You may have a different view. We happen to think that improving wages, particularly for women and workers in the care economy, is a progressive thing to do. Advocating for increases in the minimum wage is a progressive thing to do. Ensuring that we improve access to prescription medicine is a progressive thing to do. We will continue to do this because we believe in equity and fairness.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My positive question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Last month, the minister joined the Prime Minister as he led Australia's delegation to the United Nations, where Australia launched its bid for a seat at the UN Security Council for the year 2029-30. The Albanese Labor government has also showed global leadership when it comes to AI and digital security and safety, bringing together world leaders to shape the future of this technology. Minister, how does the government's approach to international engagement make Australia safer and more secure in an increasingly contested world?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>And we congratulate the Speaker too&#x2014;absolutely. He did a great job. Thanks to Senator Ciccone, who understands very well, from the work that he does in chairing the senate committee, the circumstances that we live in. In a time of global uncertainty, it is a fact that Australia's peace and security rely on working with others, playing our part to shape the kind of world Australians want to see. We take the world as it is and seek to shape it for the better, and we do this best by working with international partners. That is the approach we took at the UN last month, and it's why the Prime Minister launched our campaign for a seat on the UN Security Council for 2029-30&#x2014;to give Australians a stronger say in the decisions that affect us and our region. Our priority is to work to prevent conflict, uphold the rules to protect us all and promote peaceful, resilient digital futures.</para>
<para>Australia is an active and ambitious middle power, and we've seen Australian leadership on digital safety and on AI regulation being adopted around the world. Prime Minister Albanese introduced our world-leading under-16 social media ban and led the way again with the digital-duty-of-care announcement. At the United Nations, the Prime Minister joined with more than 20 world leaders to support control over frontier AI models. I was pleased to co-chair the inaugural meeting of signatories of the Declaration for the Protection of Humanitarian Personnel with the Deputy Prime Minister of Jordan. One year after its launch, in honour of Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom, we achieved historic support from more than two-thirds of the United Nations, and 132 countries are now signed on to support our efforts to drive safer conditions for aid workers. Australia listens with respect, partners as equals and protects what matters most.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that positive answer. The Albanese government has been working to give Australia a stronger say in decisions that affect Australians. Central to this work has been securing Australia's place in our region, particularly the Pacific. What work has the government been doing at the United Nations and in regional forums to strengthen ties with our Pacific neighbours and friends and elevate our shared concerns?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A stronger and safer sovereign Pacific is good for Australia and for our region. At the UN, the Prime Minister and I met with our counterparts from Solomon Islands as we continue our work to elevate our relationship through a comprehensive treaty. I also joined the meeting between the UN Secretary-General and leaders of the Pacific Islands Forum, the central body for strengthening Pacific relationships, trust and regionalism. The Albanese government believes in listening, respecting and acting on Pacific priorities in the Pacific Way, and this approach has delivered new alliances with Papua New Guinea and Fiji and breakthrough agreements with Vanuatu, Tuvalu and Naoero. We will continue to work to strengthen our relationships with the Pacific because Australian security is underpinned by the security, stability and prosperity of the Pacific.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians benefit not only from a peaceful, stable and prosperous region but also from a world that is governed by rules and not by power and force alone. At the UN, the PM met with Ukraine's president and the leaders signed a bilateral security agreement and announced new military support for Ukraine. Minister, why is it so crucial that the government show real support for Ukraine against Russia's illegal and unjustified invasion?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It was an honour to meet President Zelenskyy alongside the Prime Minister, and we made new announcements which bring Australia's support to Ukraine to almost $1.9 billion, $1.6 billion of which is military assistance. President Zelenskyy has thanked Australia for our military support. Australia stands with Ukraine not only because we support the people of Ukraine but also because we cannot accept a permanent member of the Security Council breaching the United Nations Charter, and that is what Russia did when it invaded Ukraine. Russia's war against Ukraine and its cooperation with North Korea make our world and our region less secure. I want to say it was disappointing to see the new Greens leader channelling, frankly, President Putin and sounding like Senator Roberts, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">&#x2026; we don't support military aid to the Ukraine.</para></quote>
<para>Well, Labor will continue to provide support to Ukraine in support of a just and lasting peace. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Minister Wong. Last week, the High Court ruled that governments must consider emissions from coal burned overseas when deciding whether to approve a coalmine. For the Mount Pleasant coalmine, those emissions count for 98 per cent of the project's total emissions. This was a fantastic win for the Hunter Valley community and, of course, for our planet. Minister, does the Prime Minister agree with this community and these science teachers that the coal dug out of the Hunter and exported to the world is causing climate change?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hodgins-May. Again, I acknowledge your election as deputy leader. In relation to the Mount Pleasant mine, as I understand it, there are three points I'd make. The federal government is not a party to the proceedings, so this is a matter for the New South Wales government. I'm also advised that the High Court did not consider the EPBC Act. The case does not relate to a Commonwealth decision. There are no outstanding applications, as I'm advised, before the Australian government in relation to this project. We'll obviously work through the judgement carefully and consider any broader findings. Any federal decisions are made in accordance with the national environmental law under the EPBC Act.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hodgins-May, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So no acknowledgement of climate change. Minister, has the Labor government obtained legal advice on the Hunter Valley court case, and will it make it available to the public so that they can understand the ramifications of the case on any future coal and gas approvals?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take issue with the little riposte.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hodgins-May</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was a question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, no, Senator, you chose to put a political barb in, which I'm entitled to respond to.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hodgins-May</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not a barb.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I'm entitled to respond to your political barb. This government&#x2014;</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ayres</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When they do it, it isn't a barb.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When we do it&#x2014;yes, there are very different standards. We are committed to acting on climate and we always have been. And we have worked, when we have been in government both this time and previously, to reform our economy to respond to the challenge of climate change. So I do take issue with the barb&#x2014;</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hodgins-May</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on a point of order, can you please draw the minister back to the question about legal advice&#x2014;whether it's been obtained and whether they will make it public.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hodgins-May, as you are well aware, all parts of your question are relevant. You stood up and said, 'No acknowledgement of climate change.' That is what the minister is currently addressing, so she is being directly relevant to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, what I am saying to you, Senator, is this government is acting on climate. What we recognise, unlike others, including your party, is that that is a big structural change in our economy that has to be manifested over time. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hodgins-May, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, will the Prime Minister rule out ever granting federal approval of the massive Hunter Valley Operations coalmine extension&#x2014;prior to COP31, the world's biggest climate conference? Will he rule it out full stop, or will the hypocrisy continue?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, what is actually being called for there is for the Prime Minister to go around the law. I would make the point that the Australian Greens are the defenders of proper process and the defenders of governments doing what they should in accordance with the law, except on this occasion, where they don't like what the result may or may not be. Now, we will apply the law. That is the obligation of ministers and decision-makers in relation to this issue&#x2014;a law which was amended by this chamber in November of last year, with your support. So we will apply that, as is appropriate.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Ageing, Senator McAllister. For months, Minister Butler has told Australians that only 44,000 people will drop their private health insurance under Labor's plans to cut the additional rebate for those over the age of 65&#x2014;44,000 people. He has repeated that number again and again. But a secret briefing released under freedom of information shows that 44,000 is only the initial effect of the policy and that, by 2029-30, the number of people dropping private health insurance will reach 78,000, almost double the number the minister has repeatedly quoted. Minister, a simple question&#x2014;does the government concede that its own department found 78,000 older Australians will drop their cover under this policy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The estimate of around 44,000 in 2028-29 is the most accurate reflection of the effect of the proposed change. The modelling does extend beyond that, but the reliability of that modelling decreases over time, and that is because assumptions about behaviour, economic conditions and policy settings become less certain over time.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Despite the change, the overall number of people with private health insurance is expected to continue to increase, including people aged over 65, as it has consistently for the last five years. I would make this point&#x2014;that the government is determined to invest in aged care in particular and the requirements of older Australians, and it is&#x2014;</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could you ask Senator Ruston to desist on the interjections?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have. Senator Ruston, you've asked your question. I think the chamber, including me, would like to hear the answer. So, if you could just desist, that would assist me. Minister McAllister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has decided to make changes to the way that we offer the private-health insurance rebate and to return the savings derived from that to aged care. It is a very different approach to the approach taken by those opposite, who never generated savings and who were unable to find the savings that were necessary to meet the pressures on the budget, including the pressures associated with aged care.</para>
<para>It is a curious thing, I think, for those opposite to start to answer, because there is a lot of discussion about the need to reduce expenditure, say, from Senator Hume or from Mr Wilson, who says that home aged-care packages need to be controlled, but Angus Taylor didn't back him in. Mr Taylor didn't back him in when he was asked about that. He won't say, in fact, where he will make cuts. All we hear&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The same briefing to which I refer admits that the department 'was not aware of reliable and complete data on pensioners at the time this policy was announced'. Your government simply assumed only a limited number of full-rate pensioners would hold gold or silver cover. It was only after Senate scrutiny that your government admitted that around 700,000 full-rate pensioners will be hit by this change. Why did you announce this cut before doing the work to find out who would be hit by it, which seems to be a hallmark of the Albanese Labor government. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston refers to hallmarks. I think we understand very clearly what the hallmarks were of the previous government when it came to health, because it was the coalition, of course, that froze the private-health insurance rebate, increasing out-of-pocket costs for Australians. It was the coalition that attempted to introduce&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order on relevance, I don't believe that the answer of the minister goes anywhere near to being relevant to the question that I have asked.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will draw the minister to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The senator asks about the hallmarks of health, and what I will say is that this government is determined to invest in public health, an $8&#xBD; billion investment in Medicare, so that public health is available for Australians when they need it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again on relevance. I really cannot understand how anything the minister saying is relevant to my question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I drew the minister to your question in the first instance because she was referring to the previous government's policy. The minister is now being directly relevant to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government is determined to make the investments that are necessary for care for Australians, including older Australians, and it includes directing an additional $3 billion from the savings made by this initiative, a responsible&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister keeps talking about fairness. We're talking about Australians who've paid private health insurance for decades. They did the right thing on the basis that they'd have a little extra help to keep their insurance in retirement. Now, by the department's own figures, a 70-year-old on gold cover will need to find an extra $643 a year. Pensioners live on fixed incomes. They cannot ask for a pay rise. They cannot pick up extra shifts. Minister, how is that fair?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We will continue to make investments in aged care. We understand that this will not be a welcome decision for many older Australians, but it is the right one, because it allows an additional $3 billion to be invested in delivering more aged-care beds, more packages and better care for older Australians. It reflects the increased investment that has been made to aged care in our time in office. The per-bed rate that we pay residential aged-care providers has increased for the care they provide by 65 per cent per bed in just four years. Last year we increased the number of home-care places by 25 per cent. Assessment wait times are down very substantially, and people who need an aged-care package at home urgently are getting it within a month. We continue to make the investments that are necessary to support older Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Grants</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Senator Watt. Minister, did you or your department seek or receive advice from ASIO or the Australian Federal Police before granting more than $68,000 to the Islamic Multicultural Youth Centre, also known as MyCentre, which has been linked by United Arab Emirates prosecutors to the suspect in the flydubai terrorist hijacking?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Hanson, for the question. Minister Burke and his department have been looking into this, and the government's position is that we expect all organisations that receive government funding to conduct themselves in line with guidelines and funding agreements and in accordance with the expectations of the Australian taxpayer. If any activities breach these, the funding will be reviewed. All multicultural grants programs are administered in accordance with the Commonwealth Grants Rules and Principles, the Australian Government Grants Framework and the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act.</para>
<para>Senator Hanson, what you're referring to involves allegations that a pilot involved in that recent incident on that plane may have had some connection to an Australian organisation. The Victorian Joint Counter Terrorism Team, which comprises the Australian Federal Police, Victoria Police and ASIO, has confirmed that it is investigating the man's links to Australia. As an investigation is underway, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment more broadly. What I can say, though, is there is no current threat to the community or public safety here in Australia. We trust our agencies to do their jobs and help keep Australians safe.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You didn't answer the question. Minister, did you or the department receive any security advice, undertake any Google searches or review the Facebook pages for any of the organisations receiving your multiculturalism grants before giving them taxpayer money?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, if I have any further information to add in answer to your question, I'll provide that. More broadly, I can certainly say that our government does not make any apologies for investing in multicultural communities. We support multicultural communities. I know that's not the position of the One Nation party, which believes in a monoculture, whatever that is. I don't think anyone's been able to quite work out what that is at this point in time. We support multicultural communities. As I said in my first answer, we expect organisations that receive government funding to follow guidelines, follow funding agreements and comply with the expectations of Australian taxpayers.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance to the question. Did they receive any security advice? That is the direct question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister is being relevant to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The only other thing I'll say on this matter is that I've seen One Nation's comments about the need to deport hate preachers. There have been suggestions made that there may be a connection between an alleged hate preacher and this pilot. We all remember that earlier this year there was one party that didn't vote for the legislation to deport hate preachers, and that was Pauline Hanson's One Nation party.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You need to look at the rest of your legislation, which would have taken away freedom rights from the people of Australia. That's why we wouldn't support that rubbish legislation. Minister, are any of the organisations that have received nearly $400 million in multicultural grants awarded by the Labor Party since coming to office under any form of investigation or monitoring by ASIO or the AFP?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Hanson. Just before answering this question, I'll just pick up on what you said before when I pointed out that your party, Pauline Hanson's One Nation party, voted against our legislation to enable the deportation of hate preachers. I know you're sensitive about that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance to my question. He's got one minute to answer it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, when I invited you to put your second supplementary, you started off talking about the legislation. The minister is entitled to take that as part of his answer. If you don't want him to make comment, don't mention it.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, I know you're very sensitive when your hypocrisy is pointed out in here. You've pointed out that there were other aspects of that legislation that you did not support. I can only assume that that was the measures we imposed to crack down on Neo-Nazis, because that was one of the central aspects of that legislation that was involved as well. Was that the bit you didn't like? You didn't like deporting hate preachers. You say it was because of other issues. Was that because you had problems cracking down on Neo-Nazis? I can't see any other reason why you would have voted against that legislation. Even the Liberal and National parties voted with us to make it easier to deport hate preachers, and yet you have the hide to come in here and ask questions about taking more action against hate preachers. You're a hypocrite.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, I remind you to direct your responses to me.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Minister Wong. Minister, six months ago I asked you if it was in the national interest to permit the importation of all fuels, even if these fuels originate from Russia. Your answer was&#x2014;and I'll quote here:</para>
<quote><para class="block">With respect, Senator Babet , your support for President Putin's regime is a disgrace.</para></quote>
<para>Now, Minister, I note that a few days ago President Donald Trump announced that the United States would purchase Russian diesel to help ease pressure on American families. Minister, my question is: is the President of the United States also a disgrace?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Honourable senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, particularly on my right! I remind the chamber Senator Babet has the right to have his question heard in silence. That is what I expect.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator Babet, you mentioned the question six months ago, and I have to say it's good to have you back, mate. In fact, this is the first question you've asked in six months. It's six months since your last question, and in fact, during that time, you haven't actually spoken on government legislation. I know it's embarrassing&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Honourable senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Government senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Government senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! Senator Babet, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Babet</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance, President. Please answer the question: is the President of the US a disgrace?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Babet. There was a timeframe referred to in your question. The minister's being relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The timeframe referred to in the question was the last time you graced us with your presence, mate. In between then and now, people have been observing on Facebook and Instagram your magical mystery tour. I did wonder if you were actually overseas maybe meeting with the people who manufacture your supposed 'Australia first' merchandise, but apparently you were just holidaying in Europe.</para>
<para>We have a clear position on Russia and Ukraine. We believe that Russia's breach of the UN Charter in its invasion of Ukraine was illegal and was wrong, and we will continue to stand with Ukraine. I understand you want to stand with President Putin against Ukraine. I completely disagree with you, and I do think that is a shameful position. We will not be changing our position. If you want to talk about what's disgraceful, I think it's disgraceful that a senator rocks up here, takes six months before he actually turns up to do some work and continues to pull his salary whilst posting his holiday pics everywhere.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>():&#xA0;&#xA0;That was an art form. It didn't answer a single thing. Well done. You're a professional, seasoned vet. Minister Wong, has your government raised any objection with President Trump over his decision to import Russian diesel, or is Australia simply prepared to accept that America is simply putting its national interests first while we don't do the same? Why don't we put our national interests first as well?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We do, and you should give it a go&#x2014;putting the national interest first&#x2014;because actually it is in our national interests, as a nation of our size, for the United Nations Charter and the prohibition against the territorial integrity of a country being compromised by a larger power to be held and to be observed. That is in our interest. So it is in our national interest to take the position we have taken, just as it is also in our national interest to ensure that we enter the market in order to assure fuel and fertiliser supplies for Australians, Australian businesses and Australian agriculture. And that is what we have done.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, is your government's refusal to import Russian fuel driving up prices for Australians at the pump&#x2014;yes or no? Are you driving up prices needlessly with your stubborn refusal to put this country first? Disregard what happens there. Put us first. Import the oil, import the diesel, import the fuel&#x2014;whatever it is. Bring the prices down for us here, the people of this country, our country. Australia first.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>'Australia first,' but you manufacture overseas, right? No? This is the hypocrisy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All your merch is overseas made.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> All your merch is overseas made. In terms of 'Australia first', we are ensuring that more fuel and fertiliser come to this country. That's what we have done. Export Finance Australia, under the leadership of the board and also Senator Farrell, have done an outstanding job through global disruption to ensure that our economy has had sufficient supplies of petroleum, of diesel and of petroleum related products, including urea. That has enabled our economy to continue functioning during a period when there has been a constraint on supply. And we have done that without compromising our position in relation to Russia for the reasons I have outlined to you. It is not in our interest to be saying that it is okay for a larger country to invade another. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is also to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Minister, the <inline font-style="italic">Foodbank hunger report </inline>found that one in three Australian households experienced food insecurity over the past year, 44 per cent of households are struggling to put food on the table, and rising supply and transport costs are forcing charity networks to cut back. Foodbank Australia CEO, Kylea Tink, has warned:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is no longer about temporary belt-tightening&#x2014;it is becoming dangerously entrenched &#x2026;</para></quote>
<para>What does the Prime Minister say to the thousands of charities and not-for-profits on the front line, like Foodbank, who are seeing the human consequences of Labor's cost-of-living crisis every day?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know many Australians are under pressure, which is why we are doing something about it. It's why we are delivering tax cuts, why we're delivering cheaper medicines, why we're delivering more bulk-billing and why we are delivering free TAFE, paid prac and lower student debt. We know there is more to do and there's more work to deliver that change. But I would make the point that, if you had been elected, Australians would be worse off. We would have higher taxes today. Every housing policy that makes a difference would have been abolished, and we would have had fewer homebuyers and fewer houses built. We would have fewer bulk-billing doctors. We would not have more urgent care clinics. Medicines would be more expensive. Aged-care workers, early childhood educators, minimum wage workers and gig workers would have been paid less. So let us be clear about which party is actually looking to help Australians who are doing it tough with cost-of-living pressures. It is certainly not the coalition, because your policies would be for lower wages, less bulk-billing, fewer urgent care clinics, fewer houses built and higher taxes today.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Anglicare Australia's cost-of-living index found that struggling households are facing a devastating baseline deficit, with executive director Kasey Chambers warning that families are skipping meals, delaying health care, relying on emergency relief and building unsustainable debt. How can the Prime Minister claim Australians are better off when families cannot afford to eat properly, access health care or pay their bills without going into further debt?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I again make the point that the senator asking this question is from a party that wants lower minimum wages, lower minimum wages, lower minimum wages and lower minimum wages. He is a senator who is part of a party that wants there to be less bulk-billing and fewer urgent care clinics. So let's be really clear about that.</para>
<para>In relation to the broader issue of food relief, I have now been given some assistance on that. The government has announced another $4.7 million in funding for frontline services to help more people who need it most. That includes $2 million for food relief, to be shared amongst OzHarvest, Good360, Foodbank and SecondBite, and an increase to emergency relief providers, who will get an increase of 15 per cent on their national funding.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd add that charities have described today's announcement as abysmal and equal to just $1 per welfare recipient, but I digress. The Salvation Army reports families are being pushed to desperate levels of hardship, with parents skipping meals, children going to school hungry and some people resorting to eating spoiled food. When working Australian families are increasingly turning to charities for emergency food relief, at what point will the Prime Minister admit that Labor's cost-of-living policies are failing Australians? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I again go back to where I started. We recognise there are many Australians who are under pressure. There are families who are finding it extremely hard to make ends meet, which is why we are doing what we are doing&#x2014;tax cuts, cheaper medicines, more bulk-billing, free TAFE, urgent care clinics and the other points I have raised. That is also why we have advocated for increases to the minimum wage and why we have lifted wages in the care economy, particularly in relation to early childhood educators and aged-care workers.</para>
<para>Finally, I would make the point, in relation to the food relief providers, that there has been a significant increase as against the 2024-25 baseline funding. That's because the government understands that these providers do such an important job supporting those families who are doing it tough.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Watt. The Albanese Labor government continues to deliver cost-of-living relief. The key part of that delivery is helping Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn. The latest <inline font-style="italic">Trends </inline><inline font-style="italic">in federal enterprise bargaining</inline> report shows that the government's changes to workplace laws are putting more money in Australian workers' pockets. Minister, how has the government improved wages, reinvigorated enterprise bargaining, addressed the gender pay gap and improved job security?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government's workplace reforms continue to deliver strong outcomes for Australian workers, with the highest number of active enterprise agreements since June 2018. After 10 years of a coalition government who deliberately held wages low, the Albanese Labor government is now delivering higher wages with policies that enable Australians to earn more and keep more of what they earn.</para>
<para>Enterprise agreements are good for workers and good for businesses. Workers get better pay and conditions, and businesses get more flexibility and productivity. The latest <inline font-style="italic">T</inline><inline font-style="italic">rends in </inline><inline font-style="italic">f</inline><inline font-style="italic">ederal </inline><inline font-style="italic">e</inline><inline font-style="italic">nterprise </inline><inline font-style="italic">b</inline><inline font-style="italic">argaining</inline> report shows that there were 11,614 active enterprise agreements in place as of June 2026, and, as I say, that's the highest in nearly 10 years.</para>
<para>Our Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Secure Jobs, Better Pay) Act was passed by our government in December 2022 to improve wages, reinvigorate enterprise bargaining, address the gender pay gap and improve job security, and that's exactly what that legislation has done. Now almost 2.6 million Australian workers are covered by current enterprise agreements. Employees covered by new enterprise agreements received average annual wage increases of four per cent, compared with 3.2 per cent growth in the wage price index. So workers who are covered by enterprise agreements are earning more than the average worker. This marks eight consecutive quarters in which wages under enterprise agreements have grown faster than the national average.</para>
<para>But, of course, not everyone agrees with our successful reforms, which are putting more money in the pockets of workers across the country. I noticed that, over the last three weeks, Senator Hume has used a speech at the HR Nicholls Society, those noted supporters of Australian workers, to prove again that the coalition does not support workers' rights, including the right to disconnect and same job, same pay laws. What that means is that, if it were up to the coalition and One Nation, tens of thousands of dollars would be stripped from workers' pay packets each and every week. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under the Albanese Labor government, we've seen the lowest average unemployment rate of any government in the last 50 years alongside the creation of more than 1.3 million jobs. Minister, why is it important that Australia's labour market remains resilient to help Australians deal with cost-of-living pressures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia's labour market remains resilient, despite ongoing global economic uncertainty. Almost 40,000 jobs were added in August, and, while unemployment remains low, it's not surprising to see it tick up slightly in the context of the current global uncertainty. More than 1.3 million jobs have been created since we came to government, most of them full time, and we have stronger jobs growth and higher participation than every G7 economy. It's worth repeating that for the benefit of opposition members: Australia, under the Albanese Labor government, has stronger jobs growth and higher employment participation than every one of the seven biggest economies across the world. And don't you hate that fact! We remain focused on supporting those Australians who are still doing it tough. That's why we're cutting taxes, which you opposed, and we'll keep working to create more jobs, lift wages, which you opposed, and ensure people have the security that they deserve at work, which you opposed as well.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You certainly hit a sore spot there, Minister, with those opposite. Whether it's higher wages, improved job security or more fairness in the workplace relations system, the Albanese Labor government is backing everyday Aussie workers at every turn. Minister, why is it important that workers are supported by the government and real action is taken to protect their wages and conditions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We on this side of the chamber believe that Aussie workers deserve to be paid properly and have their wages and conditions protected. That's why the Albanese government is doing just that. We know that the coalition, together with One Nation, have consistently voted against every law we've introduced that has helped to lift wages for workers. Now we know that they want to do that again if they ever get to govern in coalition with One Nation. We saw Senator Hume's speech at the HR Nicholls Society and, on show over the weekend, at that cringe-worthy CPAC conference held in Brisbane, we saw them competing for who could be the most right wing. We saw Senator Canavan, Senator McKenzie, Senator Nampijinpa Price and Senator Henderson&#x2014;that Pauline Hanson tribute band which sits over there and plays very second-rate covers of the original item sitting even further to their right&#x2014;yet again getting out there saying that they want to undermine working conditions and ensure that workers have a harder time and find it harder to get ahead. We are going to stand against that and make sure it doesn't happen. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on notice.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Banking and Financial Services, Small Business</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with the informal arrangements agreed by the whips.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of answers given to questions without notice asked by Senator Cash and Senator Hume today.</para></quote>
<para>During question time today, we saw again reasons why the Australian people cannot trust or believe a thing that this government says. They're unwilling to admit the mistakes that they made with respect to the changes to credit card fees and the complete shambles of a process in relation to the Australian Taxation Office and its attitude towards the prohibition of using credit cards in this country.</para>
<para>It was more than an organised, structured or consulting based process, all of which were thrown up as smokescreens by the government. It was more like an episode of <inline font-style="italic">Laurel and Hardy</inline>&#x2014;what another fine mess you've gotten us into. First we'll consult; next it's an independent decision by the ATO, and we can't direct. And then, of course, we tell the ATO to delay the decision by 12 months or until 1 July next year and put another $200 million on the Australian taxpayer's credit card. That's what's happened over recent times with respect to this ridiculous decision of the government to see the payment options for Australian business to the tax office limited. Small businesses around this country understandably continue to lose confidence in the government. You've got an increase in the number of small businesses losing their position in the market because of increased costs, and the small business that I talk to say this is the last straw. 'What else can the government do to us? You've attacked us with relation to our business structures through the attack on trusts. You've increased our taxes through trusts as well. And now you're reducing our payment options&#x2014;our capacity to manage our cashflow&#x2014;to the tax office.' What else could you dream up? What else could this government dream up?</para>
<para>The problem is that, with the way this government is running both the parliament and the nation, we will continue to see these unintended consequences crop up from all of these measures that aren't properly tested by the parliament. We saw it with the widow's tax. We've seen it with a number of other measures where the parliament has to come back and clean up the mess that's been created by this government. As I said, it's out of the <inline font-style="italic">Laurel and Hardy</inline> playbook. What a fine mess you've gotten us into again. The government needs to take decisive action with respect to the tax office accepting credit cards. They've talked about a delay. They've put another couple of hundreds of millions of dollars on the national credit card. But what they really need to do is sort this out. Scrap it. Scrap the prohibition on businesses using credit cards to pay the tax office. Why should Australian business lose one of its payment options to manage its cashflow, just because the government can't go through the appropriate process to put legislation through this parliament? Why should small business pay the cost? Why should industry pay the cost of the government's complete failures with respect to structuring some of the measures that they're putting through this parliament?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, what a combination. We've got them talking about cost of living&#x2014;and these are the people that start talking about the effects on small business. And yet on so many occasions in this place have we seen these people vote against the interests of small business and working people in this country. We saw it, certainly, in everything from Closing Loopholes to Same Job, Same Pay but also in an area of small business they like to forget about&#x2014;a very important area that dealt with the road transport haulage industry, where they said that gig workers were able to turn around and get minimum standards. They wanted to stop microbusinesses from even getting paid minimum-standard payments by big tech companies from overseas. These are the people that try to pretend that they're agents for small business. Well, the reality is that, when it comes to voting records within this place, they consistently vote against small business. On the issue of small business, of course, it comes to the present challenges that we have in the economy. We're seeing that with the Middle East fuel crisis and the pressure that's putting on the Australian economy. The legislation that was put forward in Closing Loopholes gave the opportunity for the trucking industry, small businesses, transport companies and mid-sized businesses to be able to recoup costs. Otherwise, those companies would have collapsed. That would have been both an economic challenge for this economy but also a structural challenge in logistics for the entire country. It's a Labor government that made those changes as a result of what we had done through closing loopholes&#x2014;small business and working people are getting decent outcomes because of the thoughtful, strategic approach by this government.</para>
<para>And, of course, when you look at the list of things that we've done in the small business area and arena, there's a large number. You have to remember the Reserve Bank reforms mean that Australians are no longer paying $1.6 billion a year in surcharges, and businesses will save $910 million. It means when you go to the check-out and&#x2014;rightly, the delay has taken place so that people get a chance to absorb the concepts of what's going on and what the challenges are. But it's quite clearly the surplus surcharges at the check-out when choosing to tap your credit card now will not be just something&#x2014;the debit card arrangements have ended. When you choose to tap that card, you won't be surprised. Everybody must have tapped their credit card and found out they've been hit with an extra cost. It's now about transparency and about capacity. There is capacity because there are real reserves. There's no longer $1.6 billion in surcharges, and businesses will save $910 million that they no longer have to pay.</para>
<para>These are things that make a real difference for businesses. When you start looking at the questions that they raise when it goes to the question of what's happening in the economy more generally, and particularly in regard to cost of living, you see the medicine arrangements that we've brought in here. You see the cuts that we've made in the cost of medicines. You see the opportunity for people to go and get bulk-billed. You see the opportunity for small businesses to get an instant $1,000 tax deduction. We've cut taxes five times in five different ways, putting nearly $3,000 a year more in the pockets of workers on average incomes by 2028. These are changes which make a change for every Australian&#x2014;changes for small businesses and for every Australian in the cost-of-living pressures. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BLYTH</name>
    <name.id>315170</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's always heartbreaking to sit on this side of the chamber and listen to Labor tell small-business owners and the Australian people that they have never had it so good under their, quite frankly, mismanagement of the Australian economy. I don't know how many people on that side of the chamber in their lives have ever owned their own business or who have ever employed people, but I can tell you, as a former small-business owner, that it is tough out there. When government is constantly coming at you, getting in your way, adding costs and charges and making it very difficult to do what you do in your core business, it is almost impossible to keep the doors open and, frankly, that is where we are at now in Australia. Small businesses across the country are shutting up shop after decades of running a small family business. They can no longer take what this government is dealing out to them. The credit card surcharge was just the final straw that broke their backs for a lot of businesses.</para>
<para>It is ironic that we've got Labor over there saying it's fantastic these small businesses can't charge a surcharge anymore so consumers will be better off. You won't be paying $5.08 for a coffee at your local cafe anymore. No, the cafe is going to have to put up that cost. So now consumers are paying $5.50 for a cup of coffee. And these poor businesses have had to look at how they are going to just make ends meet. Because, let's not forget, it's not just this surcharge for credit cards; it's their power bills which have gone up by over 40 per cent under this Labor government. For these businesses, a lot of them are set up under family trust structures and let's not be sort of blind about this. Labor's also coming after those structures as well. These businesses are trying very, very hard to do what they do, whether it's making a cup of coffee or pouring a beer. They are struggling. It is not good enough that those opposite sit here, sitting week after sitting week, constantly telling the Australian people that they've never had it so good. We have seen the greatest fall in living standards in the developed world, right here in Australia. This Labor government is responsible for that, and the Australian people know it. Every time those opposite go out and try to tell the Australian people, 'We've got all these extra things that we're doing,' they know that they are being fed a pack of rubbish, quite frankly.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister himself has acknowledged that he thinks that small business is the lifeblood of the Australian economy and it's creating jobs. But we've seen all of that stagnate under this government. Let's not forget the latest interest rate rises, because those that own small businesses generally have a home mortgage as well. So these poor people are struggling to try and keep the lifeblood of our economy going&#x2014;the lifeblood of our economy, as our own Prime Minister accepts as fact&#x2014;and, instead, we've got those opposite lecturing us, and telling us that Australians have never had it so good and to think about all the changes that they've made.</para>
<para>Well, when I sit back here and I look at the changes that this government has proposed, all they are doing is looking after their union mates. They are not interested in the mum-and-dad small businesses, because&#x2014;let's be frank&#x2014;they don't sign up to a union. So this government is not interested in looking after hardworking, everyday, mum-and-dad small businesses and everyday Australians&#x2014;those that are out there working the land, growing the food that we need. They're not interested in them, because they don't sign up to a union. These guys only want to look after their union mates, and they are coming after everyone for as much tax as they can get. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Deputy President, for the opportunity to contribute to this debate. Things are really tough for a lot of small-business owners in Australia right now&#x2014;indeed, for many Australians. We know there are significant pressures when it comes to the cost of living, and we know there are substantial challenges we face when it comes to inflation and the broader conditions within the Australian economy. We understand that, and we acknowledge that. No-one is shying away from the effort and the work required to address that, to help people.</para>
<para>I have been incredibly proud, over the past five or so years, to watch one of my siblings, my younger brother, establish a small business. I watched as, during COVID, he went through really, really difficult times&#x2014;and lost his business, in the first instance. I've been there and watched as he's tried to build something back and create something that he can be proud of and that we are all proud of. I've also seen how hard that is for him&#x2014;the toll it takes on him. He puts every hour&#x2014;every moment&#x2014;into his business. I miss a lot of family functions, but my brother misses more because of the hours he needs to do and the work he needs to do in growing his business and making sure it thrives. I have seen those pressures firsthand&#x2014;as many of us in this chamber have&#x2014;on the people in our lives that we love and know, and on the businesses we frequent and service, and on the businesses in our communities which keep our economy moving and going. We see how difficult and challenging it is.</para>
<para>It doesn't serve any of the people in our community running these businesses to engage in the kind of hyperbole that we've seen in the chamber today, or to make the kinds of sweeping statements which say: 'The government is coming after you.' Those statements aren't designed to serve or help the people working their butts off to run these small businesses in Australia; they're designed to make them feel fearful and scared and less hopeful for the future. And that's just not the kind of politics I want to engage in.</para>
<para>It is reasonable, as a government, to actually lay down the facts about what we are trying to do to help small businesses in our country. Speaking about the facts&#x2014;speaking about the policies in place and the things we are doing&#x2014;is actually a useful thing to do for those businesses, because maybe they don't know every support which is available or how to access them. It's important that they know that the government is backing them in and that we see how hard they work, we understand the critical role that they play in our economy and we understand that they're trying to create and build a legacy and build something which makes a contribution to our communities and to our economies. So I will proudly talk about what our government is doing to support small business, because it is significant.</para>
<para>That's not to say that there's not more work to do or more things to do. We acknowledge it is really tough out there. It is really tough out there&#x2014;not just for these business owners, but also for the people working for them. It's tough right across our community. To minimise or simplify the challenges that are facing us in our economy is actually doing a complete disservice to those Australians living through this and trying to get by.</para>
<para>In the budget, the Treasurer announced more than $3.8 billion in new practical measures, which are all about trying to ensure that businesses not only survive in this economic climate but thrive&#x2014;things like the permanent $20,000 instant asset write-off and our investments to make the two-year loss carry-back permanent, even though this was something which was unwound by the coalition during their time in office. We've introduced loss refundability for startups. We've introduced tax cuts, including the new $250 working Australians tax offset, for around 1.5 million sole traders in our economy. We've expanded tax incentives for venture capital. We've expanded CGT concessions to all 2.7 million active small businesses. And, as a result, we're seeing more small businesses operate in Australia and start to flourish too.</para>
<para>These are important investments which make a real difference to those businesses doing an incredible service in our economy and making a really significant contribution. I'm proud of the investments, but I also acknowledge that, for those businesses&#x2014; <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I loved my uncle Stewart&#x2014;a great man and sporting editor of the <inline font-style="italic">Newcastle Herald</inline>, which is a great publication up there&#x2014;but they referred to him as Snake Bite because he could enter Phar Lap in a donkey race and lose. This is the ability this man had. I looked up 'snake bitten' in the dictionary, and it says, 'an idiom meaning to be extraordinarily unlucky, doomed to misfortune or caught in a persistent streak of making mistakes and stuffing things up'. And what about this government? This government should be named 'Snake Bite' because this is everything they do; this is their modus operandi.</para>
<para>We have our treasurer, Dr Jim Chalmers. He's not a medical doctor; he's a doctor of economics. If he were a medical doctor, he would know the Hippocratic oath says do no harm. But that's not this doctor. This doctor walks in like a bull in a China shop and has a go. Let's have a look at the last month. We've had backdowns on ATO fees, on the veterans cap, on the widows tax and on the trust tax. This guy doesn't know what he's doing. The treasurer of this country doesn't know what he's doing. Competency has to matter. We come in here and we hear all the great words: 'Oh, we know things are tough, but wages are up.' But real wages aren't up. It doesn't matter what's in your pay packet; it's what you can buy that matters. And, under this government, your pay packet buys less&#x2014;every day.</para>
<para>They come in here with these words. We look at all of their policies. They're out there saying, 'Oh, businesses will absorb these costs,' but their own tax department won't absorb these costs. They've stopped taking credit card payments while they're closing down on cash and while they're doing all these things. This is hypocrisy and a stunning inability to govern this country, which is why we are here. Do no harm. Protect the Australians, protect your businesses and protect your economy. Get your policy right. Live in the real world. The wheels are falling off.</para>
<para>Let's go through this. We have housing taxes that they brought in to make housing more affordable. They've actually brought down the value of everything that you already own, so your house is worth less. But&#x2014;here's the kicker&#x2014;because interest rates have gone up because of these taxes, people are less able to afford them. You can't afford a house even though it costs less, because serviceability has gone up. They've got a housing future fund that they put $10 billion into, and it isn't actually building anywhere near the amount of homes it's allowed to do. You've got a social media ban for under-16-year-olds that doesn't stop them having social media. You have wage rises that are putting up inflation and giving you less in your packet. You have $12 billion worth of subsidies for industry so they can keep their doors open for the cheapest energy in the world. Everything you do turns to rubbish. You guys couldn't organise hand relief in a monkey brothel with a bag full of bananas. This is a ridiculous state of play. Do no harm!</para>
<para>I know there are good people over there in the government&#x2014;I know there are. It is time to stand up to the Prime Minister. It is time to say, 'Get out of the seat.' Put the good people in charge, the people who know what they're doing. Stop subjecting the Australian people to this sort of rubbish policy. Stop subjecting the Australian people to words that do nothing. Stop subjecting the Australian people to pain every time they get a pay packet.</para>
<para>We see it doesn't work anywhere. We saw the massive billions that went into offshore wind&#x2014;gone. We saw the billions that went into hydrogen&#x2014;gone. And we're seeing the billions that are going everywhere&#x2014;gone&#x2014;because this government wants to play student politics and not govern the nation in the interest of the Australians. They want to govern it in the interest of their friends. They want to govern it in the interest of their unions and their industry super funds. I know there are good people. Stand up to the Prime Minister and say, 'Get out of the way.' Stand up to Dr Jim Chalmers, the Treasurer, and say, 'Get out of the way.' Put people who can do the job to run this nation in control. The wheels have fallen off. We can't wait for an election. You people in the Labor Party should stand up and change it today.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs (Senator Wong) to a question without notice I asked today relating to climate change.</para></quote>
<para>Imagine asking the Prime Minister whether the Prime Minister agrees that digging up Australian coal and exporting it to be burned overseas contributes to climate change and not getting a straight answer. Well, that is exactly what happened here today in 2026. When I asked that very question of the minister representing the Prime Minister, she would not provide an answer. The climate crisis is unfolding before our very eyes, and this Labor government still cannot acknowledge it. I feel like I'm in some sort of parallel universe when I come inside this place.</para>
<para>On the streets, people are excited about this landmark victory. They are celebrating the fact that the courts are doing their job to protect the futures of young people, like those sitting up here in the chamber today, but this government cannot even acknowledge that. They cannot even bring themselves to back the retired schoolteachers and community members who took on the might of the coal industry and won. What a victory.</para>
<para>Last week, those very Australians secured that landmark victory in the High Court. The court made clear that the emissions from Australian coal burned overseas cannot simply be ignored when governments assess the climate impacts of coal projects&#x2014;of course they can't. For the Mount Pleasant project, overseas emissions account for 98 per cent of its total emissions&#x2014;98 per cent. That means just two per cent of the project's emissions were originally being counted. Imagine assessing the climate impact of a massive coal mine and leaving out 98 per cent of that pollution.</para>
<para>This is an enormous win for the Hunter Valley community, who have spent years fighting to protect their homes and their future. Retired teachers, local residents, ordinary people who refused to accept that their community should be sacrificed for the profits of billionaire coal companies&#x2014;they stood up, they organised, they went to court and they won. The community has done its job. The courts have done their job. Now it is time for this Labor government to do its job. It doesn't matter whether coal is burned here or burned overseas; it is still being burned. It is still contributing to the climate crisis.</para>
<para>But what did we hear from Minister Wong today? We heard that the federal government wasn't party to those proceedings. Well, I'm sorry, but you cannot administrate your way out of a climate crisis and you certainly cannot hide behind legal technicalities while continuing to approve the very projects driving this crisis. The minister also refused to tell us whether the government has received legal advice, let alone whether they'd actually share it with the public, who I would argue have an interest in understanding and knowing the impacts and the flow-on effects of this landmark victory. This is more secrecy, more evasion, more of the same from this Labor government.</para>
<para>The minister told us that the government would apply the law. Well, I'm sorry, but that is the bare minimum that people expect. They expect leadership. They had high hopes, when you took office, that you would work with the Greens to actually make people's lives better, to stop digging up new coal and gas, to stop feeding this climate insecurity. Well, the real question is whether Labor will finally accept responsibility for the climate consequences of the coal and gas projects that it keeps approving. There have been nearly 40 new coal and gas projects approved since this Labor government came to government, because they are still refusing to rule out the massive Hunter Valley Operations, another enormous coal project that will pollute for decades to come. And all of this is happening as Australia is preparing to head to Cop 31, the world's biggest climate conference.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister will stand shoulder to shoulder with Pacific leaders, talking about Australia's climate leadership while back home his very government continues to wave through new coal and gas projects. This is an existential crisis for people across the pacific islands. The very future of their nations is on the line. It is doublespeak. How can you look Pacific Island leaders in the eyes and promise climate action while going home and approving more coal and gas? Well, we say shame on you. You should be utterly embarrassed by your hypocrisy, because you cannot stand with Pacific Island leaders while approving the very projects that threaten their futures. Australians see through the spin. COP31 cannot be another stage for Labor to grandstand on while doing exactly what the fossil fuel industry wants back home. Labor must do its job. It needs to stop approving new coal and gas and it needs to leave those fossil fuels in the ground.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Grants</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by Senator Watts to my question on multiculturalism.</para></quote>
<para>Last week an accused terrorist tried to hijack a plane trying to fly to Tel Aviv to conduct a 9/11-style attack. United Arab Emirates prosecutors have announced that the accused co-pilot was radicalised in Australia when he was here on an international student visa. They've linked the co-pilot's time in Australia to an extremist, high-profile Melbourne Islamic organisation called MyCentre. Last month, One Nation released our investigation into Labor's multiculturalism grants rort. They revealed these grants are a Labor Party slush fund, increasing from $6 million a year in 2023 to more than $325 million last year. Last year, 94 per cent of the money went to Labor seats. Now we know more than 68,000 grants went to MyCentre, linked to the Flydubai hijacker's radicalisation. You can't make this up.</para>
<para>I asked the minister whether he'd got security advice about this organisation from ASIO or the AFP before they handed over money&#x2014;no answer. I asked if they had even bothered to do a Google search on any of the grant recipients&#x2014;no answer. Well, One Nation did, and we found terrible radical posts from the so-called leaders of this organisation. The Labor government didn't even bother to check whether they were funding extremism with a Google search, let alone security advice. I finally asked the minister, 'Are any of the organisations they funded currently on a terror watch list?' No answer.</para>
<para>Why is the government even funding this? Well, I will tell you: it's so Labor can buy votes. They don't care if it's accidentally funding terrorism, and they don't think these deradicalisation programs are doing anything, either. Two hundred and ninety-eight people are participating in deradicalisation programs as of 30 June. That's up 18 per cent in just six months. Labor and the Greens have already voted down One Nation's bill to keep foreign terrorist fighters out. They continue to allow alleged ISIS members back into Australia while the national terrorism threat level remains probable. Now it looks like they'll keep funding extremists, and with taxpayers' money too. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, that was a masterclass. Well done&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, could you indicate&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer to the question asked by me to Minister Wong today regarding fuel.</para></quote>
<para>I've got to say, that was excellent. It's exactly what I expected. Minister Wong did not disappoint at all. I have to give it to her. I really do. Australia's foreign policy should be guided by a simple question: does it benefit Australia? That's it. If something benefits Australia then, of course, we should do it. If something does not benefit Australia then we should not do it. These principles are pretty simple. Acting in the national interest isn't hard to understand. Yet from what I'm seeing, our government behaves like I'm trying to explain quantum physics to them&#x2014;I'm not. As a nation, we should be particularly wary of entanglements that cost us billions of dollars, that damage our economy and that just make life harder for ordinary Australians.</para>
<para>I filled up my car a couple of days ago and I paid nearly three bucks for a litre of diesel. It's absolutely ridiculous. And I make $220 K a year from this place; even I'm struggling. I can't even imagine how people out there are doing right now. It's not right.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Honourable senators</name>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators interjecting&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm talking about people outside, Senator&#x2014;especially when the entanglements that we're in right now are done in the pursuit of some grand moral gesture, and the only purpose of this grand moral gesture is to make our political class feel better about itself. Russia is a perfect example of this. We're told that Russia must not be allowed to have a sphere of influence. Yet the United States has a sphere of influence. China has a sphere of influence. Australia have our own interests in this region right here, and we expect other countries to respect those interests. But, when it comes to Russia, apparently the rules of international relations cease to apply. Why is that? Having a sphere of influence obviously doesn't mean that countries have a blank cheque to invade their neighbours&#x2014;of course not&#x2014;but pretending that great powers don't have security interests or that those interests can simply be wished away isn't foreign policy; it's fantasy with a defence budget. That's what it is. We barely even have that right here. The world, not least of all the Russians, was assured that NATO would not move one inch eastward&#x2014;not one inch. Yet NATO did move closer to the Russian border. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>68</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Andrew, Hon. John Neil AO</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death, on 5 October 2026, of the Hon. John Neil AO, a former Speaker of the House of Representatives and member for the division of Wakefield, South Australia, from 1983 to 2004. I understand that arrangements will be made to move a motion of condolence at a future date.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Defence Amendment (Sexual Assault Prevention, Intervention and Response Commission) Bill 2025 be considered on Wednesday, 14 October 2026 at the time for private senators' bills; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) on Thursday, 15 October 2026:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Crimes Amendment (Prohibiting Shackling During Childbirth) Bill 2026 and the Crimes Amendment (Prohibiting the Strip Searching of Children) Bill 2026 be considered at the time for private senators' bills,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the bills may be considered together for the second reading debate, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) at the conclusion of the second reading debate, the questions on each bill be put separately.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence be authorised to hold a private meeting otherwise than in accordance with standing order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate today from 6.15 pm.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Waters from 12 October to 15 October for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave&#x2014;I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators, for personal reasons:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senator McKenzie for 12 and 13 October 2026;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator Bragg for today; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Senator McLachlan for 14 and 15 October 2026.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are no objections, the business is postponed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Census and Statistics Amendment (Parliamentary Oversight of the Census) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="s1520" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Census and Statistics Amendment (Parliamentary Oversight of the Census) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill for an Act to amend the Census and Statistics Act 1905 and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows&#x2014;</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Introduction</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I rise to commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill introduces a parliamentary review of the Australian Census.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Census of Population and Housing (the Census) is conducted every five years by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), under the authority of the <inline font-style="italic">Census and Statistics Act 1905, </inline>and is one of Australia's most important statistical collections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Census data is used to inform decisions about transport, schools, health care, infrastructure and business. The data also helps plan local services for individuals, families and communities, in addition to providing accurate population estimates for Australian Electoral Commission redistributions and for GST distribution calculations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The operations of the Census are complex, as it attempts to count every single person and household residing in Australia on a single designated night.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Census must capture an incredibly detailed, granular profile of every single person physically present in Australia on a single night. This includes children, infants, international students, and tourists.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It requires tracking down and obtaining the details of transient populations, people on long-haul transport, and those in rural, regional and remote communities. In terms of sheer volume, the Census involves collecting detailed data from approximately 28 million people and roughly 10.5 million households. It also requires the development and rollout of a digital platform to process online submissions and a massive surge workforce of over 30,000 field staff to execute.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Census is also an expensive exercise, with the 2026 Census costing over $700 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Given the nature of such an exercise, it is necessary for the conduct, operations and administration of the Census to be subject to scrutiny and review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ANAO provides a report into Cyber Security Readiness for the Census, and the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) undertakes and manages several reviews into the operations and outcomes of the Census.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, there is no fully independent, comprehensive review that examines in detail all aspects of the operations and outputs of the Census.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Parliament conducts a review after every federal election to ensure the integrity, safety and transparency of our nation's democratic processes. This review is currently managed by the multi-party Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will introduce a similar Parliamentary review process for the Australian Census. A parliamentary review into the Australian Census will serve several important functions.</para></quote>
<list>It will evaluate Census operations and oversight, assess the performance of the Australian Bureau of Statistics and identify any operational bottlenecks;</list>
<list>It will examine data integrity and identify emerging risks; and</list>
<list>It will provide a voice to the public, allowing individual Australians and community groups to provide submissions and testimony outlining their personal Census experience.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Despite the complexity and cost of the Census, parliamentary review of the Census outside of the Senate estimates process has been limited to three inquiries:</para></quote>
<list>Senate Economics References Committee- 2016 Census: issues of trust, November 2016.</list>
<list>House of Representatives Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs&#x2014;Saving our census and preserving our history, May 1998.</list>
<list>Joint Committee of Public Accounts&#x2014;Automatic Data Processing (The Bureau of Census and Statistics Network), October 1966.</list>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will provide for the establishment of a permanent parliamentary review mechanism into the conduct of the Australian Census, modelled broadly on the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters' inquiries into the conduct of federal elections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">What the Bill does</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Amendments made by this Bill will:</para></quote>
<list>insert a new Part into the Act that establishes the Parliamentary Joint Committee on the Census and provides for its pre-Census and post-Census oversight functions;</list>
<list>provide for the Committee to maintain oversight of preparations for each Census, including topic selection; question design and testing; the rationale for collecting information in relation to topics; and operational preparedness. The Bill gives the Committee an advisory and reporting role; it does not give the Committee power to approve or determine Census arrangements;</list>
<list>require the Australian Statistician to prepare a comprehensive statement about the conduct of each Census and give it to the Minister and the committee within six months of Census day. The statement must address matters including workforce and operational performance, systems and cyber resilience, data security, privacy and accessibility, and lessons from other reviews;</list>
<list>provide that the Committee must commence an inquiry into the conduct and outcomes of the Census no later than 6 months after Census Day. The Committee may commence the inquiry before receiving the Statistician's statement;</list>
<list>require the Committee to complete the inquiry and report within 18 months after Census Day. However, if the Committee commences the inquiry later than 6 months after Census Day because its members were not appointed in time, it has 12 months from commencement of the inquiry to complete it and report; and</list>
<list>provide that an inquiry is not discontinued by the expiry or dissolution of the House of Representatives. The Committee appointed in the next Parliament must continue the inquiry and may use the evidence or documents obtained before the expiry or dissolution.</list>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments contained in this Bill are designed to provide a practical mechanism for comprehensive and independent parliamentary review of the operations and conduct of the Census.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is a sensible and timely initiative that adds to the various other reviews into a highly complex and important statistical exercise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on 30 June 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 546, relating to first home guarantees issued by Housing Australia for the 2025-26 financial year, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Thursday, 2 July 2026,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) on 2 July 2026, the minister provided an interim response from the Minister for Housing stating that additional time was required to respond to the order,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) on 17 August 2026, the Senate agreed to a further order noting that the original order had not been complied with and requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on 19 August 2026, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the order has still not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to attend the Senate at the start of proceedings on Thursday, 15 October 2026 to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 730, as moved by Senator Kovacic, be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:46]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Future Fit Program</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on Wednesday, 12 August 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 569, relating to the Future Fit Program, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to comply by midday on Tuesday, 8 September 2026, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors to comply with the order by no later than 9 am on 14 October 2026.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Extended Producer Responsibility Scheme</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on 15 October 2026, the following documents covering the time period of 27 March to 18 September 2026:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all correspondence between the office of the Prime Minister and the office of the Minister for the Environment and Water relating to an extended producer responsibility scheme; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all briefs, speaking notes, memoranda, correspondence and other documents relating to an extended producer responsibility scheme prepared for or provided to the Minister for the Environment and Water by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the office of the Minister for the Environment and Water, or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the office of the Prime Minister;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in preparation for the joint meeting of environment ministers to be held on 18 September 2026.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Ruston, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table, by the Minister representing the Minister for Aged Care and Seniors, by no later than 5 pm on Thursday, 15 October 2026, all documents released by the Department of Health, Disability and Ageing in response to freedom of information request FOI 26-3159 relating to the Single Assessment System, in full and without redaction.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that general business notice of motion No. 762 be withdrawn.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Facilities</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Collins, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate notes the inadequate responses provided by the Department of Defence to questions on notice lodged through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee inquiry into the management of Defence estate assets and Defence's ongoing failure to provide revised answers to questions on notice; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than 9 am on Tuesday, 13 October 2026, documents or information that provide the details of the proposed scope of work, the estimated cost breakdown of the work, the total cost of the work and any site and environmental impact for the following Department of Defence medium public works projects:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) PDS Project EST09153&#x2014;Enhanced Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility Capability at RAAF Glenbrook, NSW, 13 February 2024,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) PDS Project EST08770&#x2014;RAAF Glenbrook Falcon Building 48 refurbishment, 2 February 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) PDS Project EST08215&#x2014;Officers Mess refurbishment, Victoria Barracks, NSW, 31 January 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) New Service Residences, East Middlesex Way, Victoria Barracks, Paddington, NSW, 7 February 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) PDS Project EST07005&#x2014;HMAS Penguin Building 6 refurbishment, NSW, 31 January 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) PDS Project EST08141&#x2014;Building refurbishments, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 21 March 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vii) PDS Project EST08250&#x2014;Building 16 refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(viii) PDS Project EST08214&#x2014;Combined Mess refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ix) PDS Project EST08282&#x2014;Building 20 refurbishment, HMAS Penguin, NSW, 29 August 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(x) PDS Project EST07737&#x2014;Building EP2 refurbishment, Edinburgh Parks, SA, 21 November 2022, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(xi) PDS Project EST05853&#x2014;Wharf works, Spectacle Island, NSW, 21 March 2022.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 752 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:51]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on 2 July 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 564, Defence reform study, with a compliance date of no later than 28 July 2026,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) on 30 July 2026, the Minister representing the Minister for Defence provided a letter from the Minister for Defence which stated that additional time was required,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) on 16 September 2026, the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme provided a letter of response from the Minister for Defence raising public interest immunity claims on the grounds that publication of the document would prejudice Australia's national security, disclose Cabinet deliberations, prejudice the effectiveness of future procurement and tender processes and prejudice Australia's international relations, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the order has still not been complied with;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claims raised by the Minister for Defence, noting that the Minister does not acknowledge the benefit to the public interest of having this document disclosed; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Defence to comply with the order by 5 pm on Thursday, 22 October 2026.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition has been assured by the government that its public interest immunity claim is justified on cabinet confidentiality and national security grounds. As a party of government, the coalition respects these grounds for PII claims. The government has also assured the opposition that an appropriately redacted version of the report in question would effectively be of the same utility as the publicly available version on the Defence website. As such, the coalition does not support this motion.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 753 be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:57]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>16</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names/>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Cadell, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Veterans' Affairs, by no later than midday on Wednesday, 21 October 2026, the final version of each question time brief, however described and regardless of authorship, prepared for, provided to, held by or used by any minister representing the Minister for Veterans' Affairs in the Senate between 1 May 2026 and the date of this order, relating to the proposed $5,000 annual monetary limit or review threshold for allied health services for veterans.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Kovacic be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:04]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>36</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>There are more divisions coming, and they will be one-minute bells.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 755.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKenzie, I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 679 and 680, relating to projects as part of the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories and the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to comply by midday on Wednesday, 16 September 2026, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the orders have not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Minister representing the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories and the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government to attend the Senate on Wednesday 14 October 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the orders, and that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Of one minute?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, of one minute.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll just, in the interest of time, give this statement once, but it relates to 755, 763 and 764. It's not the practice of the Senate to go straight from an OPD to calling for an attendance of the minister. These orders were complied with during the last sitting week, and an attendance in relation to this order would be an inappropriate use of the Senate's time.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Kovacic be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:08]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Future Fund, Housing</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 676 and 677, relating to the Housing Australia Future Fund (HAFF) funding round 3 and housing delivery, requiring the Minister representing the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) on Thursday, 10 September 2026, the Senate agreed to orders for the production of documents nos 688 and 690, relating to Treasury modelling and analysis on housing matters and first home buyers, housing investors and borrowers who have fallen into negative equity, requiring the Ministers representing the Treasurer and the Minister for Housing to comply by midday on Tuesday, 15 September 2026, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the orders have not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Ministers representing the Treasurer and the Minister for Housing to comply with the following orders by no later than midday on Thursday, 15 October 2026:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) no. 676 (HAFF funding round 3 market industry briefing),</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) no. 677 (HAFF funding round 3 funding and housing delivery),</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) no. 688 (private credit, debt and insolvencies in the housing construction sector), and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) no. 690 (first home buyers, housing investors and borrowers in negative equity).</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 761, moved by Senator Kovacic, be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:12]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>81</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKenzie, I withdraw general business notice of motion No. 763 for today.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>81</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKenzie, I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 764.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That&#x2014;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on Wednesday, 9 September 2026, the Senate agreed to order for the production of documents no. 678, relating to projects as part of the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, requiring the Minister representing the Prime Minister to comply by midday on Wednesday, 16 September 2026, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the order has not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Senate requires the Minister representing the Prime Minister to attend the Senate on Wednesday 14 October 2026, immediately before government business is called on, to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of the failure to comply with the order, and that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any such motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes and shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Kovacic be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:15]<br/>(The Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Brockman)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                  <name>Bell, S.</name>
                  <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                  <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Collins, J.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Whitten, T.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                  <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walker, C.</name>
                  <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>82</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Supermarkets</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim has submitted a proposal, under standing order 75, today, which is shown at item 13 on today's Order of Business:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Government to step in to break up the Coles and Woolworths duopoly and provide cost-of-living relief for Australians by rolling out publicly owned supermarkets.</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places&#x2014;</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKim, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Government to step in to break up the Coles and Woolworths duopoly and provide cost-of-living relief for Australians by rolling out publicly owned supermarkets.</para></quote>
<para>If ever there was an idea whose time has come, it's this. Woolies and Coles made a combined $2.2 billion in profits last year, gouging hundreds of dollars from every family in this country in pure profit to the shareholders of Coles and Woolies, much of it going overseas to private equity firms who are making bank, literally. This duopoly is making bank while so many Australians are struggling just to put food on their table. It won't come as a surprise to anyone who's been out talking, but 79 per cent of Australians found it harder to put food on the table last year, and more than one in three reported that they'd been skipping meals or eating less due to the cost of groceries. People are pushing their trolley down the aisle and then, when they're heading up to the checkout, it's like they're pushing a boulder up a hill with the anxiety: will you be able to afford food for your family&#x2014;food for yourself and food for your kids? The same basket of groceries at Woolworths has gone up by 8.5 per cent in just the last 16 months, and, at the same time as these prices are going up, people's pay cheques under Labor have just flatlined. They haven't moved since 2011. They are back to where they were in 2011. These numbers are shameful.</para>
<para>And the big supermarkets want us to think that they're struggling with inflation. Fuel prices, cost of living&#x2014;'It's tough for Coles and Woolies too, you know, and that's why you're paying more.' But Australians don't buy that rubbish. We know that the likes of Coles and Woolies are profiteering, taking the money when they can, because they've got the power in the market. They dominate the market and they squeeze out other competitors. Don't let them compete on price to keep their profits up. And Australians feel that in the price of essentials, the price of food. And what does the government do? All we get from Labor are reasons for doing nothing. 'Oh, no, we couldn't possibly afford to build something. Oh, no, we haven't got the competence to do that. Oh, no, we can't.' They'll probably roll out sovereign risk or some other kind of do-nothing excuse.</para>
<para>And you know what? Australians don't buy that either. They have to buy overpriced groceries, but they don't buy that rubbish coming from this government. Eighty-eight per cent of voters say the federal government could do a lot more to reduce the price of food and groceries, and they're right. Government could do something, not wring its hands and say: 'Oh, isn't it bad that our mate Donald Trump started a war and increased the fuel prices? Oh, isn't it sad that it's getting so expensive?' They don't want you wringing your hands. They want government to help. People are right to be fed up with government saying it's too hard to make the bold action. We need to actually start making life better for people. Millions of Australians are struggling to put food on the table, and they want a government to be part of the solution, not one that's just protecting the profits of Coles and Woolies.</para>
<para>Here's an idea: Australians should have a publicly owned supermarket chain that makes food cheaper and puts pressure on the big chains to stop the profiteering. Mayor Mamdani is doing that in New York, right? When he rolled it out, the corporations there and all these political opponents said, 'Oh, this is terrible. This is terrible,' but you know what? New Yorkers love it. They love the idea of cheaper groceries. They like the idea of taking the profit out and not feeding the profit of some corporate when they're just trying to feed their families. Better things are possible. Labor, the Liberals, One Nation&#x2014;they're all taking the dime from big corporations, taking the private planes, taking the big donations, taking the fossil fuel donations to run their campaigns. Do you know the party that doesn't? It's the Greens.</para>
<para>If Australians are struggling to put food on the table, Coles and Woolies should not be posting billion-dollar profits. It's time to break up the duopoly. It's time to act for Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's interesting that, every time we don't agree with the Greens on something, it's because we're on the take of the corporations or something like that, forgetting the fact that the Greens held the record for some time with the largest corporate donation in Australian history. That was from the Wotif corporation. But let's just go away from that. Maybe we don't support something because it's a stupid idea, and I think this is a stupid idea. All marks and no originality here, we mentioned Mayor Mamdani and what he's doing in New York, but it's been tried in Australia. If you go back to 1915-1916 in Queensland, Queensland thought, 'We'll go out there and we'll buy a whole lot of supermarkets, but we won't stop with that. We'll spend half a billion pounds'&#x2014;</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators&#x2014;</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, Order! Please resume your seat. This is a Greens motion. We need to maintain our order. Senator Cadell, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>'And, not only that, we'll get the supply chains. We'll go and we'll buy some farms and we'll get some transport and we'll do this.' The only problem was it lost money. So you might not be paying more in the shops, but you're paying more overall in your taxes. You're paying more overall.</para>
<para>One thing I do know&#x2014;and I was on the supermarket inquiry, Senator McKim, and I know these guys aren't good guys. When you can have a company like Lidl spend half a billion dollars knowing that they don't want to compete in Australian markets, you know that it's a tough gig out there. And you think the Australian government can compete any more with these guys when the scale is there, when the logistics are there? You won't be delivering things cheaper unless you subsidise, which means higher taxes. Someone always pays. That is the problem with this. That's why increasing competition in the sector is better. That's why I stood and supported the motion for divestiture in this place&#x2014;because greater competition is required in supermarkets. With less power, a lesser number of stores and less crowding out&#x2014;and it's not through their contracts on their purchases; it's through their property dealings. It is when they sit on blocks of land for 20 or 30 years to crowd out the little guys, because these big supermarkets can. That is the problem. It is a market failing to maintain competition in the market.</para>
<para>An Australian government supermarket will not work. When you're going into retail&#x2014;when you're going into markets&#x2014;if the answer is government then the question is bloody stupid. We've found that so many times in this space.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator David Pocock</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Except in health and education.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I hear the interjection about health and education. Where there is market failure, I agree. But the supermarkets that are out there have too many outlets. They have these sorts of things. You have people like IGA and you have the Metcashes of the world out there, trying to have a go. But the answer is more competition and less government control so they can have a crack&#x2014;getting these things there. The answer to getting supermarkets in more competition is simply that: restrict the outflow and restrict the market size.</para>
<para>That's why I go back to having supported Senator McKim's very good motion for an inquiry on divestiture from supermarkets. It was unpopular for votes over on that side, but it had to be done. But this is a cut-and-paste socialist playbook. It is nothing more than that. It is nothing less than that. People in this country do best when they are not bound by unfair rules and unfair guidelines, and the economy does better when it can be all it can be. In the supermarket space, there are some adverse things, but government cannot do it cheaper than the big guys. When a corporation that actually specialises in grocery diversification in Europe comes here and says, 'We can't compete,' that is a problem. These people think a government body&#x2014;when we see how long it takes this government, or any government, to do anything&#x2014;can go out and compete in a free market. That is wrong.</para>
<para>The motive is good: more power, more buying and a lower cost of living for people. I get where they're coming from. They're coming from a good place of giving people more groceries for their buck, but that is in the hands of the government. It is in the hands of inflation. It is in the hands of government spending. It is in the hands of all these things we've raised. If people want to be able to afford more, we have to become a wealthier nation, and we don't become a wealthier nation through socialism; we do it through embracing markets, employing people and lifting everyone up. We don't cut different slices of the pie; we build a bigger pie so everyone eats more. Unfortunately, some rich people will get richer. I accept that. But everyone will be better off, and we will build an efficient safety net. That is where we're going. That's what we should do.</para>
<para>They go out there and talk about Mamdani supermarkets. People might love them. They aren't making money. They aren't doing the right thing yet. You always pay, whether it's through taxes or whether it's through subsidies, just because you go in there. There were many ways we looked at people helping out. People were dumpster diving when we went to Tasmania and toured. We can do food banks. We can do all sorts of things to help those people doing it tough, probably at a cost less than what we would lose by operating supermarkets. The objectives of this are good. The process is wrong. Let's help people who need it, not flush millions of taxpayers' money on supermarkets.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DOWLING</name>
    <name.id>55842</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll begin with an area of agreement: supermarket competition is not working as it should, and Australian families are rightly concerned about grocery prices. The ACCC has established that. But the Greens' own research institute's solution is to spend $25 billion turning the Commonwealth into a supermarket operator. If the economics sound extraordinary, wait until you meet the authors. The Green Institute describes itself as a think tank. It also describes itself as the official research institute of the Australian Greens, devoted to building their political movement. Its executive director is Max Chandler-Mather, the former Greens MP defeated in Griffith at the last election. So let's be clear. This is not independent economic assessment; it's a Greens political campaign dressed up as economic research. What does this think tank produce? An eight-page report proposing $25 billion in public spending, 624 supermarkets and 13 distribution centres. That's more than $3 billion for every page of research. I've seen longer and more sophisticated shopping lists.</para>
<para>Then there's the inspiration: New York mayor Zohran Mamdani has promised five publicly owned supermarkets. Not one of them has actually opened yet, but Mr Chandler-Mather has seen that and decided Australia needs 624 of them. The original hasn't even opened, and we've already got the tribute act proposing a nationwide tour! Mamdani won an election. Mr Chandler-Mather lost his. Labor's Renee Coffey defeated him 61-39 in the two-party preferred, but apparently taxpayers can now fund the comeback.</para>
<para>Let's examine the economics for a moment. The Greens promise grocery bills that are 22 per cent lower and essentials that are 30 per cent cheaper. Here's the problem: Coles's latest supermarket operating profit margin is 5.7 per cent. Woolworths's Australian food margin is 5.5 per cent. For every $100 spent at the supermarket, roughly $5.50 is operating profit. Wipe out every cent of that profit, and you've saved yourself $5.50. But this so-called Greens plan promises to save $22. So where does the extra $16.50 come from&#x2014;the farmers, the workers or the taxpayers? They claim they will eliminate marketing, executive salaries and unnecessary expenses. That would save you about 60c per $100 in sales. Their report even assumes a 25 per cent reduction in other store expenses by eliminating security guards and CCTV. Apparently, government ownership also abolishes shoplifting. But the real trick is having the Commonwealth pay for the land, buildings and distribution centres. The cost hasn't disappeared; it's simply been transferred from the supermarket checkout to the taxpayer. And their own financial forecasts reveal how fragile this scheme would be. By year five, they project almost $22 billion in revenue but a surplus of just $24 million. That's a margin of approximately one-tenth of one per cent. One bad assumption, and taxpayers are back on the hook.</para>
<para>Then there's the polling. The Greens proudly claim 84 per cent of Australians support trying publicly owned supermarkets. But look at the question; it was push polling at its finest. Respondents were first told about New York establishing publicly owned supermarkets to lower prices by cutting out profit. Then they were asked if they'd support trying that here. They weren't told about the $25 billion price tag or the compulsory acquisition of 200 existing supermarkets. Of course people support cheaper groceries. I'm surprised it wasn't 100 per cent. The challenge is delivering them, not writing them into polling questions.</para>
<para>Australia needs genuine supermarket competition. Labor is focused on making supermarkets Australians already have compete harder and charge fair prices. Since 1 July, excessive pricing by Coles and Woolworths has been illegal. We've made the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct mandatory. We've tackled Shrinkflation, because a smaller pay packet at the same price is no bargain. We've strengthened merger laws, so supermarket acquisitions face proper scrutiny. And we're giving the ACCC more resources to enforce the rules. The ACCC delivered 20 recommendations covering pricing transparency, supplier protections and barriers to new competitors. But Australians deserve serious economic policy, not a $25 billion political publicity exercise based on eight pages of wishful thinking. Mr Chandler-Mather can try to be Australia's Mamdani, but he can't make $5.50 in profit pay for $22 in discounts, and no amount of political cosplay can make the arithmetic work. I cannot support this ridiculous motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This motion is two-thirds of a good idea. Yes, the Colesworth duopoly needs competition. One Nation would do that, funding the ACCC to investigate and prosecute restrictive trade practices in the industry used for the market advantage of Coles, Woolies and Aldi, including supplier agreements, side agreements, rebates, dishonest advertising and disadvantaging competitors, sweetheart union agreements and government policy designed to damage small and medium competitors. Secondly, yes, everyday Australians desperately need cost-of-living relief. One Nation would do that, shrinking the government to fit the constitution, as we said, in early 2025, eliminating government waste and duplication, then passing on the savings in the form of tax cuts, with more people keeping more money of their own. That's One Nation's way.</para>
<para>It's the third part that One Nation opposes: a government run supermarket. With this policy, the Greens looked across the Pacific to New York and its communist mayor, Mamdani, and thought: 'You know what? We're going to try to run state run supermarkets.' That's always failed badly. And price caps have been another disaster wherever they've been tried. At least Mamdani is building his supermarket. The Greens just want to steal Coles's and Woolies's existing sites. Mamdani doesn't open his first supermarket until next year, and already the Greens are declaring the idea a winner. There's no talk of just compensation, because it's against the federal constitution, so I assume the Greens will use state governments for acquisition&#x2014;the same trick John Howard used to steal farmers' property rights to comply with the UN Kyoto protocol. Strange bedfellows, indeed!</para>
<para>Supermarkets are low-margin operations. Yes, they're getting greedy, and this is where One Nation would step in, as I mentioned. The $2.1 billion figure is not accurate. The figure includes all divisions: supermarkets, variety stores, pet stores, liquor, property, hotel businesses, and online and loyalty programs in Australia and New Zealand. Coles has funds employed&#x2014;the investment to build and run supermarkets&#x2014;of $12 billion on a 12 per cent return on investment. Woolworths has $19 billion invested on a 17 per cent return on investment. Those are healthy returns and suggest more competition is needed&#x2014;not much, though. The actual $1 billion or so in profit that 'Colesworth' makes from supermarket sales comes from around $100 billion in annual sales. A one per cent reduction in prices would wipe that out completely. Are the Greens promising to subsidise their supermarkets with taxpayers' money? If so, be honest about it. How much will be needed, and whose taxes will you put up to pay for it? The most this idea will save is between one and two per cent. The Greens are promising a 30 per cent saving. It just doesn't add up.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Imagine a young man living in an Australian city today. He wakes up in a rental that costs him hundreds of bucks a week. It's mouldy, it's draughty and it's freezing in winter, but, if he complains, his lease won't be renewed, so he doesn't complain. When interest rates go up, his rent goes up. When interest rates don't go up, his rent goes up. His taxes subsidise the obscene tax breaks his landlord receives. He gets huge electricity bills from a privatised energy company charging exorbitant prices to heat a home that should never have been so cold in the first place.</para>
<para>For breakfast, he eats groceries from the supermarket duopoly. He knows he's being price gouged, but what choice does he have? Somebody needs to fund their billions of dollars of profits. He drives to the station to catch a train to work. He's going to work 11 hours today just to give himself a chance of economic survival, but he can't drive to work because petrol is two bucks 50 a litre, and, if he could drive to work, he'd be paying Transurban, a company that pays absolutely no corporate tax, 20 bucks for the privilege of using roads.</para>
<para>He gets on the train and he opens his phone. Social media companies serve him gambling ads. They know to serve him gambling ads because they're surveilling his data and selling it to the gambling companies. The other thing he gets served on his phone is extreme right-wing content funded by many of the same interests profiting from the economic misery that he and his mates are living through. That message is always the same: blame migrants, blame trans people and boo the welcome to country. Direct your anger sideways and down and never direct it upwards to where it actually belongs. The billionaires and the big corporations, the one per cent in this country, have got one hand around his throat, and their other hand is pointing him towards anyone except the actual people responsible for his immiseration. When election time comes, the Labor Party, the Liberal Party and their orange, racist rival keep it that way. At best, Labor will promise to investigate potentially loosening a single finger of the hand at this young man's throat, but only if the hand agrees.</para>
<para>But there is another way: break the hand, break the fingers and give people more power. We need governments that are prepared to act in the public interest, including a publicly owned supermarket to take on the supermarket duopoly. Get power out of the hands of the one per cent and back in the hands of everyday Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My eyes couldn't possibly roll further back into my head watching the media and the usual suspects crash out over the Greens policy to run publicly owned supermarkets. But, if the commentariat and some of my colleagues took a single moment to unclutch their pearls, none would dare to suggest that the status quo of the supermarket duopoly is actually working for Aussies right now. Last financial year, Woolworths made $1.13 billion in profit, and Coles wasn't far behind, with a net profit of $1.09 billion. It's entirely by design that these figures are super-hard to comprehend, but, to put it into context, if these profits were combined and those supermarkets became a nation-state called 'Colesworth', they would have a bigger economy than most of our Pacific neighbours, half of the Caribbean and a handful of African countries. And where are these profits going? They're not going into the pockets of workers who keep the shelves stocked up and who are mostly on minimum wage&#x2014;and that's if they haven't fallen afoul of another incident of systematic wage theft. They're not going into the pockets of the families who are buying the essentials like meat, bread, milk, fruit and veg, because, as we all know, the prices of those things have exploded dramatically.</para>
<para>So I do congratulate my colleagues the Greens on bringing this issue to light and providing us with the potential solution to the egregious corporate greed we continue to fall prey to. To all the naysayers out there: really look at the profits, follow the money, and you will know that this is not serving Australians at all.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Here's the offer that is on the table for everyday Australians: you put your hand out and receive the receipt for the weekly shop, and it is 31 per cent higher than it was in 2019. On the other hand, Coles and Woolies receive $2.23 billion in profit in just six months. What a dud of a deal for everyday people! The duopoly have been ripping people off for years. A trip to the shop shouldn't make you anxious. Picking up milk and bread after work shouldn't cause stress. The supermarket duopoly are simply out of control, prioritising their profits over people. But of course they will; they're corporations. It's the government's job to rein them in. Grocery prices in this country are being driven by predatory price gouging by Coles and Woolies, and people are absolutely desperate for relief.</para>
<para>I know that government are busy accepting donations from tech billionaires and gas companies, so we've done them a favour, and we have put forward a solution: publicly owned supermarkets. Dare to imagine essentials like milk, eggs, fruit, veg and nappies priced 30 per cent cheaper than at the major supermarkets. We can reduce anxiety. We can bring down people's stress in this terrible cost-of-living crisis that they're currently experiencing. If Labor had the guts to break up the Coles and Woolies duopoly, Australians could save in the realm of 80 bucks a week&#x2014;over $4,000 a year&#x2014;by shopping at a publicly owned local supermarket. Making big corporations pay their fair share of tax means that we can dare to fund meaningful solutions to the cost-of-living crisis and lift the burden off Australians' weekly shop, because you deserve access to affordable, high-quality local products more than the duopoly deserve their astronomical corporate profits.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>More than $2 billion in profit for Coles and Woolworths and their CEOs taking home millions upon millions of dollars in bloated pay packets&#x2014;and, for everybody else, skipped dinners, empty lunch boxes and mounting grocery bills. Woolworths gets an 18 per cent surge in profits while you can't afford to fill your trolley. What a sick, ugly system, and all Labor and Liberal governments can manage is to shrug their shoulders and say, 'That's just the way things are.' Well, I reject that completely. The Greens believe that things can be better. We know that, if a system is failing people, you don't keep tinkering around the edges; you change the system.</para>
<para>That's why the Greens have put publicly owned supermarkets on the table. When voters were asked if they wanted this idea to be tried in Australia, 84 per cent said yes. Of course they said yes, because they are struggling, and because children shouldn't be going hungry in one of the richest countries in the world while corporations make billions. Those rebuffing publicly owned supermarkets want you to believe that there is no alternative, that governments cannot intervene and that corporations must run everything and we simply have to accept whatever they give us. That is a lie. Throughout history, governments have stepped in when markets have failed to provide the basics&#x2014;the essentials&#x2014;that people need. We have enough food, we have enough wealth and we have enough resources in this country for everyone to share. What we don't have is a government willing to take on corporate power. If the system can deliver billions of dollars in profits but cannot feed people then it is time to change that system.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At my electorate office in Gladstone, we run a community pantry to do what we can to provide food to people who need it, and right across the road from that pantry is a Woolworths&#x2014;a Woolworths that has a massive amount of food that's the result of a system of production and distribution that relies on thousands of farmers and workers to deliver that food to its shelves. But what is the point of that system if it can't feed ordinary people? What is the purpose of it if it can't prevent Australians from skipping meals? Ultimately, all this system is designed to do is to deliver billions of dollars in profits to Coles and Woolworths and the exorbitant executive pay going to their executives in the top one per cent. When we say that the economy is doing well, why is that defined by share prices and corporate profits? What is an economy for if it's not to deliver goods and services and food to people? But this isn't how our economy is run. Our government has let the supermarket duopoly decide how much food people can afford. If Coles and Woolworths cannot deliver the essentials to ordinary Australians without price gouging and excessive profits then what are they good for?</para>
<para>One of the most important sections of our economy is failing to perform its basic function, and, when that happens, we need to start talking about alternatives. Publicly owned supermarkets need to be on the table, and nationalising some of those supermarkets also needs to be on the table. In a democracy, power should not rest in the hands of duopolies; it should be with the people, and, if the people had their say, supermarkets would be run for human need, as my office's pantry is, and not for corporate profit.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, what are people talking about out there? I can tell you what they're talking about in the streets of Adelaide, and it's the price of groceries. We know this is a national conversation. Recent surveys by CHOICE tell us that, in June this year, 82 per cent of people across our country said cost of living is a major pressure on their household budgets, and we know what that pressure does. We know what that does to conversation in a household where choices are made between paying for a school excursion and putting food in the fridge or between paying the rent&#x2014;now, on average across our country, $700&#x2014;and trying to feed a family. It's the squeeze on budgets that is putting so many Australians under pressure&#x2014;people who now face, of course, rapidly increasing costs for their mortgage. It's not just people facing price gouging in our big duopoly supermarkets; it's also the farmers and suppliers who are price takers from these big duopolies. They want and deserve fairer returns.</para>
<para>Here we are in our country with amongst the most concentrated supermarket chains in the world. Between them, Coles and Woolworths control 67 per cent of all of the supermarket business in our country. We know that they are price gouging because they have the power&#x2014;the power to confront consumers and the power to set prices for those farmers and sellers. All this is happening against the background of a five per cent fall in real wages under Labor for workers across our nation. They are caught in a squeeze between big corporate profiteering on one hand and falling real wages on the other. Prices are up, we know from CHOICE's recent survey, by six per cent on basic goods, things like a combination of apples, bananas, strawberries, potatoes and rice&#x2014;six per cent in three months. That is a massive increase in prices. Australians deserve better.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>257613</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pocock. The time for this debate has now expired. The question is that the urgency motion moved by Senator Shoebridge be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:53]<br/>(The Acting Deputy President&#x2014;Senator Ghosh) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names/>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Small Business</title>
          <page.no>88</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>257613</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will now consider the proposal, under standing order 75, from Senator Cash, which is also shown at item 13 on today's Order of Business:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government's staggering incompetence in pretending that banning credit card surcharges eliminates transaction costs, when those costs are merely hidden from consumers or passed on through higher prices, while the Australian Taxation Office refuses to absorb those same costs and instead plans to stop accepting credit cards, exposing how utterly clueless Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers are about running a small business.</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places&#x2014;</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>257613</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government's staggering incompetence in pretending that banning credit card surcharges eliminates transaction costs, when those costs are merely hidden from consumers or passed on through higher prices, while the Australian Taxation Office refuses to absorb those same costs and instead plans to stop accepting credit cards, exposing how utterly clueless Anthony Albanese and Jim Chalmers are about running a small business.</para></quote>
<para>Just when you think the Albanese government couldn't possibly demonstrate any greater ignorance as to how a small business in Australia runs, along comes the Prime Minister and the Treasurer of Australia, and yet again we are proved wrong. As a small-business owner said to me on the weekend, and I have no doubt that they were expressing the views of so many small-business owners across Australia, you cannot script this&#x2014;insert your own expletive&#x2014;show! These two economic geniuses, our prime minister and our treasurer, seem to now believe that they have discovered a new revolutionary principle of economics. It's this: if you ban a credit card surcharge, apparently the cost of processing that transaction simply disappears. Brilliant! So why is it that Australian small-business owners didn't think of this years and years ago? That would be because Australian small-business owners live in the real world. They wake up every day in the real world and they are smarter, without any doubt in terms of running a small business, than the Prime Minister of Australia and&#x2014;God help them!&#x2014;our hapless treasurer.</para>
<para>They understand that you're not waving a magic wand and suddenly these costs disappear. They understand that the processing costs don't disappear. The banks are still charging them. Somebody still has to pay them. And that's really worked out well for this government, hasn't it? At this point in time, the government have made this very clear to small business: 'We've hidden the cost. You can't charge it. You still have to actually pay the bank for the processing fee, and you will have to absorb it.'</para>
<para>You could not script, though, the fact that the ATO, the Australian Taxation Office, a government department, then came out themselves and said: 'Oh, good God! Well, the cost of absorbing these processing fees is so high that we are now going to ban credit card payments.' You could not script that if you tried. What did Mr Albanese and the Treasurer do? They smiled at the ATO and said, 'Well, you can have it your way?' And they looked at small-business owners, the men and women of Australia who get up every single day and do what we need in this country&#x2014;run a small business, take risk and employ people&#x2014;and said: 'It's bad news for you. You have to absorb it.'</para>
<para>Small-business owners are now saying, 'Well, that's great, but the bad news is this: we'll have to close down in some cases, which means our employees will lose their jobs.'</para>
<para>A business that has to close employs no-one. Sadly, Mr Albanese doesn't seem to understand that small fact. And here is the alternative. So much for Mr Albanese's cost-of-living measure, because what did other businesses say? 'Well, you know now what we're going to have to do: we will increase our costs.' So that coffee that was costing you $5.12 is now costing you $5.50, is now costing you $5.80. That is how quite frankly stupid this government is when it comes to understanding how small businesses in this country run.</para>
<para>Perhaps the Prime Minister and Mr Chalmers should just try running a corner shop for one week. On second thought, they probably shouldn't. And do you know why? This is how it would go. On Monday they'd have to hire three consultants to tell them how to actually open the front door to the business. By Tuesday they would have established a committee to understand why nobody was coming into their business. On Wednesday they would have introduced a new tax on customers coming into the business. On Thursday they would have said, 'Well, this isn't going well,' and then they would have looked to blame the previous owners. By Friday their small business, based on their record and their total and utter lack of understanding of how a small business in this country operates, would be bankrupt. The employees would be out of work. But guess what. The Treasurer would be there, holding the press conference, looking the Australian people in the eye and telling them how well everything was going.</para>
<para>Well, it's not going well for small businesses in this country. They deserve a government that understands the difference between running a business and running a press conference, and it is quite time the Prime Minister and the Treasurer started to understand that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITEAKER</name>
    <name.id>316555</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak against this motion. It's quite astounding for Senator Cash and the Liberal Party to come in here and say that they want Australians to pay more when they tap their cards. That's not something that our government agrees with. You know what's nice? You know what I think Australians will appreciate when they go to tap their card as they pay? I think they will appreciate that they don't have to pay a hidden surcharge&#x2014;because it was always just a little bit sticky. Sometimes you'd go to pay and you'd think maybe your coffee was $4.50 or $5.12 or what Senator Cash said&#x2014;I think she's buying expensive coffee in Perth's western suburbs&#x2014;and then sometimes there'd be a charge added on top. That's sneaky.</para>
<para>We know that the vast majority of small businesses were not passing those charges on. I think something like 84 per cent of businesses were absorbing that cost themselves. And now our government has made it really clear that we don't want Australians to pay more when they tap their card. You shouldn't have to pay more if you decide to pay with your card than if you are paying with cash. It's of course not a small amount on its own, but, when times are tough, when Australian families are struggling with the cost of living, those small costs at the cafe when you're buying a coffee, at the servo, at the chemist add up. I think people just got used to it, perhaps accepting it as part of making a purchase.</para>
<para>I'm really proud of this change. I'm really proud that we have recommended that the RBA look into this issue, because there is no more important time for us to think about all the ways that we can help Australians who are struggling with the cost of living, and ultimately that's what this change is about. Card surcharges were costing Australians around $1.6 billion every single year&#x2014;$1.6 billion being paid by ordinary families, by young people. That's $1.6 billion that comes out of a household budget for no reason other than they chose to use their card instead of cash. And we know cash is just not king anymore. I can't really think of anyone I know who carries cash around these days unless they're buying off Facebook Marketplace.</para>
<para>Now here's the part that Senator Cash and the Liberal Party like to leave out. These reforms are expected to save businesses $910 million a year. I'll help them along the journey because I think they need a bit of assistance.</para>
<para>In late 2024, our government said that we were prepared to ban surcharges on debit cards. We were clear that this would be a decision that would be subject to further work by the Reserve Bank and that there should be appropriate safeguards to make sure that both consumers and small businesses&#x2014;ordinary Australians and small businesses&#x2014;came out ahead. The Reserve Bank went away and did that work and decided that the best path forward was to remove surcharging on both debit and credit cards. That change, of course, kicked in just a few weeks ago.</para>
<para>The RBA is also&#x2014;and this was left out, by Senator Cash, conveniently, in her contribution, and in their media blitz on this issue in recent days&#x2014;lowering the cap on interchange fees, which are the fees that businesses end up paying every time a customer taps their card. Yes, you heard that right. You didn't hear that from Senator Cash earlier, did you? That's lower fees for businesses. On top of that, payment companies and the banks are now required to be more transparent about the costs that they are charging, so that small businesses can shop around and find a better deal.</para>
<para>When you put it all together, it's a pretty sensible set of reforms. It means Australians pay less when they go to the checkout, whether that's at a coffee shop or at a chemist. It means that small businesses are paying less to the banks when customers use their cards. It means lower costs for Australians and lower costs for small businesses. I'll remind you that 84 per cent of small businesses were absorbing this fee already. So those businesses will be better off under these changes, because they will see lower interchange fees from their bank.</para>
<para>Sometimes I wonder why those opposite are so determined to undo this&#x2014;lower costs for shoppers; lower overheads for businesses; more transparency from the banks. But what I know is that the Liberal Party and Senator Cash want Aussies to pay more&#x2014;more for their groceries, more for medications, more to see their GP and more at the checkout. We don't.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BLEYER</name>
    <name.id>25813</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A family in Tasmania who owns a small business&#x2014;a restaurant business named Stelo, at Launceston, that makes house-made pasta using Tasmanian produce&#x2014;is losing sleep at night right now, and that's because they are staring down the barrel of closing down their business, due to not being able to use their credit card to pay the ATO. They're a seasonal business. There are plenty of seasonal businesses, not just in Tasmania but across the country, and the way that many of these seasonal businesses operate is that, during the quieter months, during the cooler months, they pay their tax by credit card, and then, in the warmer months, in the busier months, they can pay off their credit card and pay their tax out of their own pocket, and so the cycle goes on. This family is a dad, who's a head chef, a mum who is in charge of front-of-house at the restaurant, and three kids in primary school.</para>
<para>This is just one example of families who are looking at closing their businesses by this time next year as a result of not being able to pay their tax&#x2014;as a result of not being able to pay their debts as and when they fall due&#x2014;if the ATO sees its promise through and stops accepting credit card payments for tax from 1 July 2027. Then this Labor government will have been complicit in the closure of small seasonal hospitality and tourism businesses across this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand in support of this motion. It is clear that the Albanese Labor government does not understand small business, as has been evident this week. Treasurer Jim Chalmers and the Albanese government have been forced, once again, to backflip on a poor policy decision. Surprise, surprise!</para>
<para>The credit card surcharge ban and the ATO credit card debacle are just the latest examples of Labor's inability to consider the consequences of their actions. Prime Minister Albanese promised Australians they would save money every time they tapped their cards. But banning a credit card surcharge does not magically make the underlying transaction costs disappear. These costs must still be paid by someone. That someone is either the small businesses wearing the cost or Australians ultimately paying more at the check-out. Small businesses are the backbone of our community. They deserve a government that recognises the realities of running a business, not one that leaves them struggling with yet another unnecessary bill.</para>
<para>Labor's lack of consultation is absolutely evident in the ATO's backflip, delaying these changes until 30 June 2027. This capitulation raises the obvious question: why wasn't industry properly consulted before these changes were announced? It feels like deja vu. Why didn't the Albanese Labor government actually listen to small businesses, who have been crying out for help and support from their government? Instead, this ATO credit card debacle has added unnecessary stress and angst when small businesses already have enough to worry about. For many small-business owners, the ability to pay a tax bill by credit card helps manage cash flow during difficult periods, as we just heard. Removing that option only makes an already challenging situation even harder.</para>
<para>The ATO has estimated that absorbing credit card processing fees would cost the government around $200 million a year and declared that it is not tenable for the ATO to absorb the costs associated with accepting credit cards on an ongoing basis. No kidding! It is also not tenable for small businesses to have to absorb these costs. A small-business owner, Glen, recently told me that some of his suppliers are now refusing to accept card payments. Surprise, surprise! This is called the knock-on effect. Some are adding new admin fees at 1.5 per cent, and others are saying, if Glen's business needs to use a card payment, the fees still apply. It's as clear as mud for some small businesses trying to do the right thing and play by Labor's rules and shifting goalposts, which they were not consulted about once more.</para>
<para>Small businesses need a government who knows the pressures of running a small business, not one that places even more burdens on them. The Labor government seems to have made a real habit of announcing first, listening second and backflipping third. Small businesses deserve better.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This coalition urgency motion is honestly pretty crap. It's so misleading. Thanks to the Albanese Labor government, Australians are no longer getting hit with surprise surcharges at the check-out when choosing to tap their card now that credit and debit card surcharging has ended. We've spoken a lot about this and so has the media. But what the coalition and the media have been awfully quiet on is that we've also lowered businesses' underlying costs for using the payment system itself. Alongside the removal of surcharging, we've lowered transaction fee caps and introduced new transparency requirements so that businesses have a clearer understanding of what they're paying. It means they can more easily compare providers and secure a better deal. These changes are expected to save small businesses approximately $910 million each year. To be clear, this isn't by shifting costs around; it's by reducing the cost of doing business.</para>
<para>This government has reduced the overhead costs for business. We've reduced the domestic interchange fee cap for debit cards from 0.2 per cent to 0.16 per cent and for consumer credit cards from 0.8 per cent to 0.3 per cent as a maximum, effective from 1 October 2026. That reduction means that card payments are cheaper for businesses to process. Business costs therefore go down under this policy, putting downward pressure on consumer prices. While advertised prices at merchants that currently surcharge may initially go up to cover their payment costs, consumer prices should end up being less overall as reduced payment costs for merchants flow through to lower prices. Sellers on plans where changes in most cost components flow through automatically, known as unblended plans, will automatically receive the benefit of lower interchange fees. The RBA estimates that 23 per cent of merchants are on this type of plan. For sellers on plans with a single advertised rate, known as single rate plans, several large providers have already announced reductions in pricing from 1 October. The RBA estimates that around 40 per cent of sellers are on this type of plan.</para>
<para>The major banks have already announced reductions in merchant fees. Westpac has cut fees by 41 basis points. The other major banks have cut by 10 to 15 basis points. Small businesses should talk to their service provider and see if they can now get a better deal. This is a real win for small businesses, lowering their overhead costs and putting downward pressure on the price they charge consumers. It's a win worth $910 million in savings to businesses and $1.6 billion each year in surcharge savings to consumers. That's a huge cashflow boost, almost $1 billion a year. It means small businesses will get a fairer deal from the big banks and payment providers. Eighty-four per cent of businesses didn't even surcharge before these changes. Those businesses are already benefiting from lower transaction fees.</para>
<para>That said, I recognise why some business owners remain sceptical and want to see those benefits materialise in practice. That's why, from 30 October 2026, payment service providers and card schemes will progressively be required to publish information about card payment fees and how reductions in interchange fees have flowed through to merchant service fees. The full reporting requirements will be in place from 1 April 2027. The new reporting arrangements are intended to provide greater visibility around where the lower interchange costs are flowing through to merchants, and the Reserve Bank will continue to monitor the implementation of the reforms.</para>
<para>While we're on the topic of fact-checking misinformation from the opposition, let's talk about the recent decision by the ATO to stop accepting credit card payments. What the coalition seems to ignore is that only around five per cent of small businesses use credit cards to make tax payments. We aren't talking about most small businesses; we're talking about five per cent. Regardless, this government is passionate about looking after small businesses, so we've stepped in to ensure that small businesses and other taxpayers have a longer transition period so that there's more time for the ATO to consult with small businesses. This will give them the time to get it right. I'm proud to be in a government that lowers the cost of doing business and isn't in the business of spreading misinformation to catch the seven o'clock news.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When it comes to small business, the ignorance of those opposite simply knows no bounds. In fact, we found out today that the minister and the cabinet didn't even know about the ATO's decision not to accept credit cards until the ATO announced it. That's how across their policy they are. That's how across the impacts of their policy they are.</para>
<para>Senator Tyrrell talked about interchange fees. But the trouble is that small business typically pay their payment service providers at a bundled rate. There's absolutely no guarantee that, within that bundled rate, interchange savings actually flow through to small business. Senator Tyrrell actually admitted that herself. She admitted that herself by saying, 'Well, the RBA is going to keep an eye on this.' So there are no savings. These savings that Labor trumpets&#x2014;savings for small business&#x2014;are simply illusionary. They're simply a number plucked out of thin air and will never materialise.</para>
<para>Let me give you the case of Shelley, a small-business operator. She has operated two small businesses over 33 years. She uses credit cards to manage cashflow, including BAS liabilities and tax debt. This gives her, she says, approximately six weeks between paying a bill and settling the credit card balances, which she always pays in full. It's a cash flow management tool. She considers the cost of processing fees a small and acceptable cost for the flexibility. The withdrawal of credit card payment options risks removing an established cash flow management tool from businesses like Shelley's. Large quarterly ATO payments in particular are a massive concern in this challenging economic environment, an economic environment that Labor has completely mismanaged. She also fears&#x2014;and this is something we have heard over and over again&#x2014;that credit card payments will no longer be accepted by her suppliers and other creditors. This loss of flexibility puts her businesses under extraordinary pressure, and the ignorance of those opposite in trumpeting Labor's management of this issue shows no bounds. Small business is not just struggling; small business is closing its doors. And Labor seems to be doing everything it can to help close them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITTEN</name>
    <name.id>317026</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor has a real problem with economics. Numbers and percentages don't seem to be their strong point. They think that, if you can't see a cost, it has vanished. They're like babies playing peek-a-boo. With hands over their face, they think you've disappeared. The adults in the room know that, just because you can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not there. These card surcharges don't magically vanish. The banks don't stop charging them. The bills still arrive in the mail. What changes is that consumers lose visibility of the costs. We all know that they're still there. Nothing got cheaper. But Labor still jumped on their social media telling Australians they had just saved them $1.6 billion. The public saw through that. It is no wonder they're trying to censor the internet! They are being absolutely roasted. The real victims here are the small businesses.</para>
<para>I started a business with my brother. I know what it's like to try to comply with mountains of regulations and government imposed costs. It costs precious time. It costs money&#x2014;not the sort of money that Labor thinks grows on trees; real taxpayer money. It's the sort of money that owners and workers in these businesses had to get up early to earn by providing a service that someone else needed. These businesses take risks, find ways to be more productive and employ workers. Remember those people, Labor? Those costs are absorbed by these businesses until they can't afford it anymore. Then it is paid by the customer. If they can't raise their prices, we lose that business, and their employees lose their jobs. Under Labor, everything is suffering. Cash or card&#x2014;it is more expensive. Small businesses are getting crushed under Labor. They now have to comply with payday super laws. They have to send in gender equality reports. They need to report on their carbon footprint. Their interest rate payments are soaring thanks to this big-spending government. And, when they go to sell their businesses, this Labor government is waiting to take a huge bite of their retirement with the new capital gains taxes. This ban is just another ridiculous Labor disaster.</para>
<para>When they realised that no-one was buying the spin on these charges, they shifted gear. This morning, Minister McBain was on TV claiming that the Labor government never said they were banning surcharges. Let's check the record on that. Stephen Jones, the then Assistant Treasurer, said in a 2024 ABC interview:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will introduce a ban by the beginning of 2026 on debit card surcharges.</para></quote>
<para>The Prime Minister told the National Press Club in April this year:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We delivered on our promise to ban surcharges on credit and debit cards.</para></quote>
<para>This lot couldn't lie straight in bed! One Nation will make it easier to do business in this country, and it's time for this incompetent and dishonest Labor government to go.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What a mess the Albanese Labor government is presiding over. But the problem is that the price is being paid by Australians and by Australian small businesses. Australians have spent years being told by this government that it understands the pressures that they're under and that it's providing cost-of-living relief&#x2014;all of these kinds of things&#x2014;and we know that's a load of rubbish. Households are having to make difficult decisions about what they can and can't afford&#x2014;food, things for their kids, which school activities they can go on, how much petrol they can put in the car. All of these decisions are being made on a daily basis because of the actions of this government. Every time someone pays by card, there are costs associated with processing that payment. Those costs don't cease to exist for a small business because this government decided that they should no longer appear separately on your receipt.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister gloated about these changes. On 31 March this year, on social media, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These small surcharges add up fast, and this will save you money every single time you tap.</para></quote>
<para>That's what he said. On 30 September, again on social media, he said: 'Pay by card? From tomorrow, your morning coffee will be cheaper.' Wasn't that wrong&#x2014;totally wrong. Either the Prime Minister lied to Australians or he doesn't know how our economy works, because costs don't disappear just because the Prime Minister says so. On 1 October, on social media, he said: 'Every time you tap, those little surcharges add up. Right now they're costing Aussies $1.6 billion each every year. But from today they're banned&#x2014;saving you money every time you tap.' What a load of rubbish.</para>
<para>Assistant Minister Charlton defended the ATO when the ATO banned card payments. He defended them. He didn't defend small businesses. Nobody from that side defended small businesses, but they ran to defend the ATO. If the ATO cannot afford to absorb card surcharges, then explain to me how small businesses are meant to. Shockingly, today, the small business minister, in the other place, said she had no idea. She heard about the surcharge on the day that it was announced. They didn't even run it past her. They didn't even talk to the minister in charge of small business about the impact of this ban on small business. That tells you everything about how much this government cares about small business, which is less than zero. That's why they're crushing them.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the urgency motion as moved by Senator Cash be agreed to.</para>
<para>&#xA0;</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:31]<br/>(The President&#x2014;Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Babet, R. D.</name>
                <name>Bell, S.</name>
                <name>Bleyer, V. E.</name>
                <name>Blyth, L.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. P.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gatenby, C.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. A.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Whitten, T.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>22</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ananda-Rajah, M.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A. D.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Dolega, J.</name>
                <name>Dowling, R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Walker, C.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whiteaker, E.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>8</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Mulholland, C.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B. G.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
              </names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>93</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>93</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia, Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility, Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, Fuel, Australian Electoral Commission, Airservices Australia, PFAS (per and polyfluoroalkyl substances) Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>93</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>93</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to orders for the production of documents concerning Housing Australia, the Fuel and Fertiliser Security Facility, the Major and Local Community Infrastructure Program, Export Finance Australia, the Australian Electoral Commission, Airservices Australia and the government response to the report of the Select Committee on PFAS.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>94</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Amendment Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7448" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Amendment Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>94</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>94</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows&#x2014;</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Transnational, serious and organised crime actors continue to adapt and develop new ways to exploit the Australian community and target our economic systems to generate illicit profits and launder the proceeds of crime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Money laundering is not a victimless crime. Each year, billions of dollars of illicit funds are generated from criminal activity such as drug trafficking, cybercrime, child exploitation, tax evasion, and other illegal and corrupt practices. It is also used by authoritarian regimes to fuel corruption and undermine the rule of law across the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AUSTRAC has observed that Crypto ATMs are one of these new mechanisms, linked from everything from money laundering to scams and fraud, to illicit substances and to child exploitation. When AUSTRAC looked at the top 90 most prolific users of these ATMs in 2024, 85% of these users were either scam victims or money mules who had been tricked or coerced into moving money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While not everyone who uses these ATMs is linked to illicit activity, the observations of our law enforcement agencies is that unfortunately, a substantive amount of their use contributes to criminal gain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Amendment Bill 2026 responds to Crypto ATMs and the broader modern financial crime environment which facilitates serious crimes and harms both Australia's financial system and the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the bill will introduce a new framework in the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006</inline> to empower the AUSTRAC CEO to restrict or prohibit businesses regulated under the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing regime from using a high-risk product, service, delivery channel or thing to protect the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This implements commitments I made at the National Press Club on 16 October 2025 to combat the significant harms being caused by organised crime and scams across the country. The Australian Institute of Criminology estimates that serious and organised crime cost Australia up to $82.3 billion in 2023-24, causing misery and financial hardship for victims. The illicit profits are also reinvested in further serious crimes that cause untold harm to the Australian community and our region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The emergence of new technologies in recent years have presented great opportunities for the economy and the community. However, these same opportunities can also be exploited by criminal actors. We have seen criminal groups exploiting high-risk mechanisms coerce everyday people to move and launder money from scams and illicit drug sales. For example, cryptocurrency ATMs are often exploited by criminals coercing individuals to exchange money for virtual assets. These high-risk mechanisms are used because they make it harder for our law enforcement and intelligence agencies, like AUSTRAC, to trace the movement of money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure the new power is appropriately targeted, the AUSTRAC CEO must be satisfied of the significant harm of the high-risk mechanism before exercising the power, and that a restriction or prohibition is necessary in the public interest. The new power is intended to support AUSTRAC's flexible, risk-based response to emerging and evolving money laundering and terrorism financing risks, while still allowing reporting entities to use innovative technologies and business models.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 of the bill will make technical amendments to the meaning of financing of terrorism in section 5 of the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006 </inline>to reference new offences introduced in the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995</inline> for financing a state sponsor of terrorism. This definition will also be updated to reflect developments in Australian sanctions laws on terrorism financing, including by allowing new sanctions offences to be prescribed in the future. These amendments will also ensure Australia unequivocally meets its commitments as a member of the Financial Action Task Force, the global ant-money laundering and terrorism financing watchdog.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 of the bill contains technical amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act </inline><inline font-style="italic">2006 </inline>that were identified through the implementation of the significant reforms enacted by this Government through the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Amendment Act 2024</inline>. The 2024 reforms were a critical and long overdue step in Australia's compliance with international standards and ensuring we do not become an international 'back door' for illicit funds. The technical amendments will make compliance easier for Australian businesses who have obligations under these laws, while still delivering strong anti-money laundering outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government will always act to prevent the criminal abuse of our economy and the harm and suffering this causes to our entire community. For those who think crypto ATMs provide a new loophole to turn cash into crypto and evade law enforcement&#x2014;know this&#x2014;we will close the loopholes, we will track you down, you are in our sights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this bill.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7517" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows&#x2014;</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Every older Australian deserves care that sees them, knows them, and treats them with respect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That looks different for everyone.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians, that means care that understands their culture, their history, and&#x2014;in many cases&#x2014;the adversity they have faced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill delivers something that will give older First Nations Australians a clear voice to Government: Australia's first permanent, independent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's a key recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety, and today this Government delivers it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The case for this role is clear. Older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are more likely to need aged care, and more likely to need it earlier in life. Yet they use it at lower rates than other Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can't continue to shy away from away from why that is. For so many older First Nations people, aged care has felt like a system built by others, for others.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A system that asked them to leave their Country or Island Home, to move far from family, to explain themselves in a language that wasn't their first.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For some, reaching out for care means trusting institutions that have given their families little reason to. That history shapes the choices people make today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When a care system doesn't understand someone, they don't work around it&#x2014;they go without it. They wait longer. They get sicker. And too often they miss out on the dignity that every older person has earned.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While there is much work to do to build back the trust of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians that care institutions have eroded over decades and centuries, this Commissioner is a profound step forward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner will be a strong and independent advocate. They'll work to make sure that, in every corner of our nation&#x2014;in the cities, out bush and on the islands&#x2014;aged care is culturally safe, is sensitive to trauma, and is responsive to the people it serves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner will advise on how Government should move to improve and expand access to care, and support co-design of policies and programs for First Nations people. They'll promote cultural capability across the sector, so that the people delivering care understand the people receiving it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They'll help more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations become registered providers&#x2014;because care delivered by community, in community, is often the care that works best.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And they'll help us lift the number of First Nations people working in aged care, so older people can see themselves in the people who look after them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner will sit within the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission, with an independent statutory role. This is a similar model to how the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner has been established.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That placement is deliberate, and it is a strength. It connects an independent First Nations voice directly to the levers that regulate aged care, and build capability across the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It means their advocacy doesn't stop at advice; it will have teeth. This includes powers to collect information and report publicly on what they hear from the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It reaches into how providers are registered, how quality is measured and held accountable, and how care is delivered on the ground.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An independent voice, with a direct line to the parts of the system that can act on what it says, including the Minister and the System Governor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This role has been shaped by the people it's for. The outgoing Interim First Nations Aged Care Commissioner, Ms Andrea Kelly, travelled the country and listened deeply.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">She held 135 forums and met with more than 1,000 older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, their families, communities, and providers. She heard what was working, what wasn't, and what people wanted this role to be.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I have visited Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities and services around the country, I have heard of the power of that Commissioner role&#x2014;to bring a First Nations voice to where change can be made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We'll run a robust, competitive process to make sure that the very best Commissioner is appointed&#x2014;someone who has a track record as a respected and trusted leader from the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we know that appointing a Commissioner doesn't get us all the way.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is so much more work for Government to do to make Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged care as culturally safe in practice, in every instance, as it is written in the Aged Care Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That work has commenced&#x2014;with the enshrining of those rights, with the exemption of redress payments, with the work of the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we will continue that work until every Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community in Australia knows that aged care is a system they can trust and rely on&#x2014;and the Commissioner will play a central role in support of our work to do that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill does more than establish the Commissioner. It features technical, but important, components to strengthen the system older Australians rely on every day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It makes permanent a set of measures, enacted through rules, that have kept the new Aged Care Act running smoothly since it commenced on 1 November 2025, giving older people and providers the continuity and certainty they need through this transition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It strengthens protections for older people&#x2014;making clear the obligation on providers to refund contributions and fees that have been overcharged or overpaid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It makes a practical fix so elected local councillors are no longer captured as responsible persons under the Act. This brings local government in line with state &amp; territory governments, and it keeps councils delivering aged care in the communities that depend on them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it makes a range of further technical amendments to keep the Act operating as intended as the sector continues its transition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Examples include a small but important change to ensure individuals have flexibility to choose how they pay for their residential aged care while they await the outcome of the means testing process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These are sensible improvements. They keep faith with the reforms this Parliament has already passed, and they keep the system working for the people it serves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But at the heart of this Bill is a simple idea. Older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people deserve a louder voice in their own care, and now they will have one.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the resumption of the debate be made an order of the day for a later hour.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>96</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7464" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2>
  <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>96</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>97</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Joint Committee on Defence</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.2>
  <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>97</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>97</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulatory Reform Omnibus Bill 2026, Wage Justice for Early Childhood Education and Care Workers (Special Account) (Extending Support and Strengthening Safety) Bill 2026, Major Sporting Events (Indicia and Images) Protection Amendment Bill 2026, Health Legislation Amendment (Improving Choice and Transparency for Private Health Consumers) Bill 2026, Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026, Customs Amendment (Safeguard Inquiries) Bill 2026, Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026, Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <p>
              <a href="r7481" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Regulatory Reform Omnibus Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7529" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Wage Justice for Early Childhood Education and Care Workers (Special Account) (Extending Support and Strengthening Safety) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7499" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Major Sporting Events (Indicia and Images) Protection Amendment Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7434" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Legislation Amendment (Improving Choice and Transparency for Private Health Consumers) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7539" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Knox Class Action (Facilitation) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="s1495" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Safeguard Inquiries) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7464" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Force Discipline Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 1) Bill 2026</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7498" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (RCDVS Implementation and Related Measures No. 2) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2>
  <subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>97</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7491" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Amendment (Incentive Payments and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>97</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate/>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill, as amended, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with an amendment; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>97</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>97</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" background="" style="">
            <a href="r7517" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>97</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. We acknowledge that this bill establishes a permanent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care commissioner and the bill also makes a long list of repairs to Labor's new Aged Care Act. And since the bill's introduction, it has been amended to establish a new escalation pathway for decisions regarding Labor's algorithm, which it so often gets wrong. Disappointingly, this amendment that's been put forward does not fix the flawed tool itself. Together, this bill tells you a great deal about the state of aged care in this country.</para>
<para>First&#x2014;the commissioner. This bill gives effect to a key recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety, a royal commission established by the coalition. The royal commission said that this role should be in place by 1 July 2023. However, it's taken this government four years to even bring this particular issue to the parliament, so it's important that the government is held to account on making sure that it meets the commitments that it makes. A new title on the door by itself does not shorten a single wait.</para>
<para>Second&#x2014;the repairs. Much of this bill is machinery. A large part of it writes into law interim arrangements the government had already put into place using Henry VIII powers. Those are the powers that let a minister change the effect of an act by regulation without coming back to the parliament. The government leaned on them just to keep its new system running. Those powers are due to sunset this month, so the government is here, asking the parliament to make its emergency arrangements permanent before the clock runs out.</para>
<para>On top of that, there are 13 technical amendments&#x2014;contributions, means assessments, refundable deposits, payment methods, reviews and overpayments. Some are welcome. Clearer obligations on providers to refund fees that were overcharged and stronger powers for the regulator to deal with unreasonable prices are sensible protections for older Australians, and we absolutely support them. But this is a clean-up, not a cure. In three weeks, Labor's new Aged Care Act turns one. It is a reform this government promised would make aged care simpler, fairer and more responsive, and, within months, ministers needed emergency powers just to keep the act working. This is not the mark of a system that was ready when it first began; it's the mark of reform that was rushed.</para>
<para>That brings me to the third and most revealing part of the bill. For months, the government told this Senate, assessors and older Australians that a trained human was involved in every step of the assessment process. That was not true. Documents released under freedom of information show the department's own staff regarded human override as a settled position, and then it was removed from the top down, with officials learning of it three days before the tool went live. Now, nearly a year later, the government has added schedule 4 to this bill, an escalation pathway for what it calls exceptional cases. Let me be clear about what this pathway actually is. An assessor who knows the algorithm has got it wrong cannot fix it. They must get the older person's consent within seven days and they must refer the case to the department of health and aged care in Canberra, and the criteria for who even qualifies will be set out in the rules the government has not actually yet written. Schedule 4 does not put a human back in charge; it gives the computer a supervisor in Canberra.</para>
<para>The Senate has already passed the fix for this problem. On 2 July, this chamber passed the coalition's Aged Care Amendment (Restoring Human Override for Aged Care Needs Assessments) Bill 2026 with the support of the Australian Greens and the crossbench. It would let a qualified assessor override the algorithm on the spot, require decisions to explain how the tool was used and give every older Australian assessed since it began the right to a reassessment. In the other place, Labor used its numbers to vote down urgent consideration of it&#x2014;that is, they wouldn't even let this urgent issue be debated. They simply said no and refused any further conversation. The government should remember the words of one of its own senior ministers:</para>
<quote><para class="block">&#x2026; in every case there needs to be human oversight of any use of AI. We don't just hand over decision-making to abstract computer programs &#x2026;</para></quote>
<para>Those were the words of Minister Plibersek in the House of Representatives on 27 May. Labor set the standard. Labor did not meet it in aged care.</para>
<para>When the committee examined the bill, the sector told us it had lost confidence in the tool because it produced strange outcomes that were causing harm. Advocates told us the existing reconsideration process can take more than 90 days, and still the department would not accept the tool is flawed. No algorithm has ever grown old, and no older Australians should be reduced to a score generated by a computer.</para>
<para>While this bill tidies up some paperwork, it does nothing for older Australians who are waiting and waiting and waiting. According to the department's last report, last financial year, more than 325,000 older Australians spent time in the home-care queue. In Labor's first full year in office, it was 199,000. And last financial year, 6,436 of them died while they were waiting for care. That's more than 17 people every single day dying while waiting in a queue for aged care. That's up 93 per cent on Labor's first full year in office. Think about that. It's someone's mother or someone's husband, someone who has already been told that they need care, and this government only handed over those figures after failing to comply with two orders of this Senate.</para>
<para>For those who do get a package, providers tell us that many are placed on a minimum-service offering&#x2014;a convenient way of just saying that they haven't been given their full package. Just 60 per cent of the funding is allocated of the assessed need. Sixty per cent of the funding is allocated to just about everyone who receives a part package for the first time. And the department has admitted it changed how it counts the waitlist so that someone on a part package no longer counts as waiting. Prior to 1 November 2025, those people remained counted on the waitlist until they received their full package. When you can't shorten a queue, the Labor Party's answer is: you refine it and you redefine it.</para>
<para>On home support, the government has finally retained the Commonwealth Home Support Program until at least 2029, after providers, advocates and a Senate inquiry told them. I suppose it's better late than never. On residential care, the sector needs around 10,500 new beds a year to keep pace with demand. In 2024-25, just 802 new beds were built. That is why more than 3,000 older Australians are stuck in public hospital beds with nowhere to go, and the government's answer is an increase of just 2.55 per cent, against a 4.75 per cent wage increase providers are already paying. The former Inspector-General of Aged Care put it plainly: 'The way this government is implementing aged-care reform is causing harm.'</para>
<para>Let's be plain about what this bill does not do. It does not restore human judgement to assessments. It does not clear the waitlist. It does not fund a single new aged-care bed. And it does not get one older Australian out of a hospital bed and into a place to receive the care they need. Behind every assessment, every review and every funding decision in this bill is an older Australian&#x2014;someone who's worked, raised a family and built this country, someone now waiting for a package, an assessment, a bed or an answer. The coalition believes the person must come before the process. That means restoring human judgement to assessments. It means telling older Australians the truth about how long they will wait. And it means judging this government not by how tidy its legislation looks but by whether an older Australian can get the care that they need when they need it.</para>
<para>We welcome this bill, as it fixes so many problems that this government was warned of on the passage of the Aged Care Bill in the first instance, but Labor has got a very, very long way to go, because older Australians deserve better from this government. It's time this government backed in its promise of putting the care back into aged care instead of putting the 'wait' into 'waitlists'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. As a Mutthi Mutthi Wamba Wamba woman, this bill speaks to something at the heart of who we are as First Nations people and our responsibility to elders. Our elders are more than older members of our communities; they are our teachers, our storytellers, our knowledge holders and our connections to the generations that came before us. They carry language, culture, family history and lived experience that cannot be found in a textbook or a government report. When an elder passes, we lose knowledge that can never be replaced. That is why aged care matters.</para>
<para>It's not simply about services; it is about dignity, and it is about respect. And it is about ensuring that the people who have given so much to their families, to their communities and to this country receive the care that they deserve. Every older Australian deserves care that sees them, knows them and treats them with dignity. But we also know that dignity looks different for different people. For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, dignity in aged care means being able to maintain a connection to culture, family and country. It means being cared for by people who understand who you are, understand where you come from and understand the experiences that have shaped your life. This bill takes an important step towards delivering that outcome. At its heart is the establishment of Australia's first permanent independent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner. This was a key recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety. Today, this bill, if it's successfully passed through the Senate, will deliver on that commitment.</para>
<para>The case for this role, in my mind, is really clear. We know Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are more likely to need aged-care support at a younger age than the broader population. We know many experience poorer health outcomes and carry a greater burden of chronic illness. We also know that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians access aged-care services at lower rates. That really should be something that concerns all of us because, when people do not engage with the aged-care system, it's rarely because they don't need the support. More often it is because they do not believe that the system understands them.</para>
<para>The truth is that, for many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, aged care has historically felt like a system built somewhere else by someone else for someone else. Too many elders have been asked to leave their communities in order to access care. Too many have felt isolated from family and culture. Too many have carried experiences that have made it difficult to trust institutions. I think it's important that we are really honest about that history. Many elders alive today lived through government policies of exclusion and control. Many experienced racism in institutions that were supposed to help them. Many members of the stolen generations are now reaching the age where they need aged-care support. For some of those elders, walking into an institution is not a neutral experience. It can bring back memories of a time when governments decided where Aboriginal people could live, where they could work and who they could see. It can bring back memories of being separated from family, community and culture. If we want Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to trust the aged-care system, we have to acknowledge that history. We have to recognise that cultural safety is not a box-ticking exercise. It's not an optional extra; it's fundamental to delivering good care. It's good policy. When people feel understood, respected and safe, they're far more likely to engage with the services available to them. This commissioner is an important step in rebuilding that trust within the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community.</para>
<para>The commissioner will be an independent advocate for our elders. They will listen directly to communities, they will advise government on how services can better meet the needs of First Nations people, they will help identify barriers that prevent people accessing support and they will provide an important mechanism for ensuring that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander perspectives are heard inside the aged-care system itself. Importantly, this role is not simply symbolic, and it's important that roles like this aren't just symbolic. The commissioner will sit within the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission, with an independent statutory function. That means that they will have direct connection to the parts of the system responsible for oversight, accountability and improvement. It means that their advocacy can drive practical change. The commissioner will support better cultural capability across the sector. They will promote culturally safe care, they will help more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations become aged-care providers and they will help strengthen the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care workforce.</para>
<para>All of these things matter, because we know that care often works best when it's delivered by the people who understand the communities that they serve. We know it works best when services are designed around people rather than forcing people to fit around systems. We know it works best when elders can remain connected to family, language, culture and country.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge the work that has already been done to help shape this role. The inaugural Interim First Nations Aged Care Commissioner, Andrea Kelly, travelled extensively across Australia and met with communities, providers and older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. She listened carefully. She heard people's stories. She heard what was working and what was not. Most importantly, she heard what people wanted this role in particular to become. That work laid the foundations for the permanent commissioner that this bill establishes. I also want to acknowledge interim commissioner Jodi Cassar, who has continued that engagement and consultation with communities across the country. The success of this role will depend on the trust it builds with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and community. That trust can only be built through genuine engagement and genuine listening. This legislation recognises that.</para>
<para>As someone who spends a great deal of time in communities across Mallee and Nicholls, I hear regularly from older Australians about the challenges they face in accessing services. Whether in Mildura, Swan Hill, Kerang, Cohuna, Echuca, Rochester, Shepparton or many of the smaller communities right across regional Victoria, people tell me they want the same things. They want to remain where they belong. They want to stay close to family. They want to remain connected to friends, family and community. And they want to continue living independently for as long as possible. For Aboriginal elders, that often means remaining on country. For others, it means staying on the farm they've worked on all their lives, remaining in the township where they raised their children or continuing to be part of the community that they helped build.</para>
<para>These are not unreasonable expectations. In fact, they are exactly what most of us would want for ourselves. A good aged-care system should support those choices. It should not create barriers to them. That challenge is often even greater in regional Australia. Distance matters. Workforce shortages matter. Access to services matters. When there is only one provider available or when care is delivered hundreds of kilometres from family and community, the impacts are felt deeply by older people and those people who care for them. That is why it is so important that regional voices continue to inform aged-care policy. This commissioner will help ensure those voices are heard.</para>
<para>This bill also contains a number of practical measures that strengthen the operation of the broader aged-care system. Some of these amendments are technical in nature, but they are nevertheless important. This bill strengthens existing consumer protections. It makes clear the obligations on providers to refund contributions and fees that have been overcharged or overpaid. That is a really important safeguard. Older Australians and their families deserve confidence that the system is operating fairly. This bill also includes amendments that support the ongoing implementation of the new Aged Care Act.</para>
<para>As anyone involved in major reform knows, legislation of this scale often requires technical improvements once implementation begins. It is entirely normal. The purpose of those changes is not to alter the direction of the reform but to ensure that reforms operate as intended. The government amendments before the chamber today are a good example of that at work. These amendments establish an additional review pathway for certain assessment and prioritisation decisions. That might sound technical, but it has a very practical purpose. Not every older Australian's circumstances fit neatly into an assessment tool. Not every person's aged-care needs can be fully captured through a standard process. Sometimes circumstances are more complicated. Sometimes individual situations are exceptional. When that happens, there needs to be a mechanism that allows those decisions to be reviewed. The amendments provide that pathway. Where assessment organisations believe a person's circumstances warrant further consideration, there will be an ability to escalate those decisions for review. That is an entirely sensible approach. It recognises that good systems need consistency but that they also need flexibility. Most importantly, it recognises that the purpose of the system is to serve people. The measure will provide an additional safeguard for older Australians with complex circumstances and help ensure people receive support that reflects their genuine needs.</para>
<para>I also want to acknowledge an aspect of the bill that is particularly important for regional communities, and that is the amendments relating to local government. On the surface, this may appear to be a technical matter; in reality, it is deeply important for many communities across regional Australia. Local councils play a critical role in delivering services that support older Australians. They provide practical assistance. They connect people with services. They help older residents remain independent and engaged in their communities. In many regional areas, councils deliver these services because there is simply nobody else to do so. Across Mallee and Nicholls, local councils are often the organisations that hold communities together. They know the people that they serve, they understand local needs and they are often the first point of contact when somebody requires support. This legislation recognises that reality. By addressing the issues around responsible person arrangements and bringing local government into line with state and territory arrangements, these amendments remove unnecessary administrative burdens and provide greater certainty to councils. That is a welcome and practical reform. Ultimately, we want councils to be focused on delivering services, not navigating avoidable bureaucracy. For many regional communities, maintaining those services can mean the difference between an older person remaining in their community or being forced to relocate somewhere else to access care.</para>
<para>At the centre of all of this is a simple principle: growing older should not mean losing your dignity, growing older should not mean losing your voice and growing older should not mean losing connection to the people that you love. For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people that includes maintaining connection to culture, community and country. For regional Australians it includes maintaining connection to the towns, the neighbourhoods and the communities they've spent a lifetime helping to build. This bill supports those goals. It establishes a permanent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care commissioner, it strengthens consumer protections, it improves assessment processes, it supports local governments and it continues the work of building an aged-care system that is safer, fairer and more responsive to the people it serves.</para>
<para>I want to finish by reflecting on something. I understand that One Nation are likely to put forward an amendment to this bill that is entirely unnecessary. The bill that we've got before us today helps the government to deliver on a key recommendation from the royal commission, and we are not in the business of declining recommendations from royal commissions. Never mind that this bill, which will help the government deliver for older First Nations Australians, is the right thing to do; it is good policy. One Nation need to reconsider an amendment that they might put forward to this bill. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak to the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. First, I'll echo the comments made by Senator Stewart around the foreshadowed amendments to be made to this bill by One Nation. The permanent appointment of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged care commissioner is long overdue. It is a recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aged Care, and it is essential to making sure that First Nations people in this country get access to culturally safe and appropriate care. I would like to echo Senator Stewarts calls, and the Greens also call on One Nation to strongly reconsider not moving its amendment.</para>
<para>As I've said, the Australian Greens welcome the establishment of the permanent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged care commissioner, and we too would like to commend the work of the interim commissioner in developing recommendations alongside First Nations communities. However, notwithstanding that the government is finally moving to make this position permanent, the Greens argue that this legislation does not establish sufficiently the independence of the First Nations aged care commissioner. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people need and deserve a commissioner that will be strong and independent, able to stand up to the government of the day.</para>
<para>And for the commissioner to be able to independently advocate for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander elders and older people, we think that their independence must be reflected in the legislation. The Greens believe that the commissioner should have their own office, that they shouldn't be directed by the minister and that they shouldn't be subordinated to another office within the department. The Labor government needs to walk the talk when it comes to First Nations self-determination and independence in aged care.</para>
<para>So the Greens will be moving a number of amendments to this bill, which reflect that view and the view of the First Nations advocates and organisations that gave evidence to the legislative inquiry into this bill. The Greens will be moving an amendment to establish the office of the commissioner as independent from the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission, because we believe that embedding the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged care commissioner within the existing regulatory framework compromises the independence of that office. As I said, First Nations people need a strong and independent advocate that is not tied to existing institutions.</para>
<para>The Greens also believe that the commissioner should represent and be accountable to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander older people, not the government of the day. The minister shouldn't be able to direct the commissioner as to their work, when it is the commissioner who should be holding the government to account. Similarly reflecting evidence from multiple First Nations stakeholders and organisations to the inquiry, the Greens believe that the commissioner should have the ability to initiate their own motion inquiries and to request responses to their recommendations. The commissioner should be able to initiate and undertake inquiries of their own without needing the permission or the prompting of the minister.</para>
<para>Further, the Greens believe that the First Nations aged care commissioner needs to have strengthened powers to gather information. At the moment, in the legislation before us, the commissioner does not have the power to compel information. They simply have a power to request it. The Greens believe that, if the commissioner is to undertake a strong independent role, they should have the ability to compel organisations and others to provide information consistent with the powers that other commissioners have.</para>
<para>We also believe that general principles of cultural safety and human rights should be embedded in the primary legislation. It's essential that this act sets out clearly in that legislation, for example, the fact that the role of the commissioner should be to help the government uphold its principles, particularly under the UNDRIP. First Nations people deserve to have that embedded in the act, not for it to come later in the rules.</para>
<para>Finally, on the first on the issue of First Nations aged care, the Greens believe that it is essential that the government moves to exempt redress payments from means testing for older First Nations people for Support at Home. Whilst the government has done this for residential aged care, they haven't done it for Support at Home. We think that needs to be remedied. Affordable home support is essential for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to age with dignity on country, and we know that co-payments are already placing an unfair barrier between older people and the essential care that they need to remain where they live. But the idea that they could be charged more if they've received Stolen Generations redress payments we think is an unjustifiable added insult, and the government needs to move with haste to remove those from means testing for Support at Home. The Greens are going to move an amendment that would exempt those payments from means testing and would force the government to address this injustice.</para>
<para>Now I want to move to the amendments that the government has now inserted around the Integrated Assessment Tool. We have heard clearly in the inquiry into this bill, as well as in the inquiry that is ongoing into Support at Home, that the Integrated Assessment Tool is consistently underassessing older people's needs&#x2014;including, for example, in the case of MND. I spoke again to MND Australia today. They have evidence that there is no consistency in the assessing of people with MND using the Integrated Assessment Tool.</para>
<para>We heard clear evidence from Professor Kathy Eagar, who is an expert in this area, that the Integrated Assessment Tool does not work to adequately assess the needs of older people. It does not adequately account for frailty, for dementia, for cognitive decline or for the other support needs that older people have. We have heard overwhelming evidence, from providers, from people who provide care, from the care workers, from families and from older people that the Integrated Assessment Tool is not appropriately assessing older people's care needs.</para>
<para>The idea that the care needs of an older person&#x2014;of every older person&#x2014;are not complex is a furphy. When you assess an older person's care needs, you need to sit in front of that person. A clinician sits in front of that person and they have the entire context for the care for that person in front of them. What is the layout of their house like? How does that impact their ability to move around? What are the interrelations between potential dementia or becoming more frail?</para>
<para>We've heard evidence, clearly, in our inquiries that the Integrated Assessment Tool is not fit for purpose, and yet the government seem to be continuing down this path where they have confused equality with equity. Assessing everybody the same does not result in equitable assessments. Clinicians are trained to make decisions about the care needs of older people. If the government were serious about addressing the concerns with the Integrated Assessment Tool, they would not bowl up an amendment to this bill which simply seeks to provide a different pathway for a review of a decision and not one that is going to be reviewed or takes into account the expertise of the clinician in front of the older person doing the assessment, but one that sends it into the black box of the department to review that decision. Just as with the first round of aged-care reforms, where we didn't see what was in the rules until the last minute, we have no information in front of us as to what the criteria are by which the department is going to decide if the Integrated Assessment Tool has fairly assessed an older person. This is not the way to fix the problem.</para>
<para>What we need to fix the problem is to reinstigate the primacy of the professionalism of a clinician to sit in front of an older person, to understand their context, to understand the context of the family and supports around them or lack thereof and to make a clinical judgement about the needs of that older person. To use the words of Professor Kathy Eagar, the current tool is not a needs assessment tool. It is a financial eligibility tool. And it has not been designed in such a way as to properly assess the care and support needs of older people. We heard that repeatedly in our inquiry. Some advocates&#x2014;for example, COTA and service providers&#x2014;are saying that the only reason they would support this amendment is that they think that it will further expose the size of the problem.</para>
<para>Now, the Greens don't think more and more people should be forced into a review pathway when people are already waiting too long for care. They're waiting too long to get an assessment. Then, when they are assessed, they're waiting too long to get their package. And then, when they do get their package, they're waiting too long to get their full package. Forcing more people into a system that simply sends them around again for a review when the tool is broken is not a fix. The Greens do not support the amendments to the integrated assessment tool.</para>
<para>What the Greens support is immediate reinstigation of human override of the algorithm for every older person's assessment and a complete reworking of the integrated assessment tool with the expertise of relevantly qualified clinicians and proper testing, because we heard in our inquiries that this was never properly tested by clinicians, and it was never properly tested on actual people. Running a series of previous decisions through the algorithm is not a sufficient test for something that makes life-and-death decisions for older people. When a person with MND who was previously on a level 4 package comes back with a decision from the IAT that they are not at the top level, level 8, and that is happening routinely, that tells you something is fundamentally wrong. When a 90-plus-year-old with vision impairment seeks a reassessment, as we saw on <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline>, years down the track after having her initial assessment, and it comes back as lower, that tells you that something is fundamentally wrong. What these amendments tell the Senate is that the government, the minister and the department do not seem to understand that. Or, alternatively, they do, but this is a distraction to make people think that they've fixed it. Well, it doesn't and it won't.</para>
<para>Older people have spent their whole lives contributing to our communities, contributing to our economies and contributing to this country. At the point in their lives where they expect that a human will make an assessment about the care and support that they need into their older years, this government bowls up a robo assessment tool that they know is flawed. The Greens will not support the amendments to the IAT, and we call on the government to reinstate human override and to completely rework the IAT.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston advised before that the coalition position is to not oppose this bill. The Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026 makes a range of changes to the operation of Labor's new Aged Care Act. The bill establishes an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care commissioner within the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission. The bill also makes a range of operational and technical amendments arising from the implementation of the new Aged Care Act. Many of these changes effectively legislate interim arrangements the government previously put in place using Henry VIII powers. True to form, at the last minute, those interim powers are due to sunset in October 2026, and we have this legislation in front of us now. The government is now seeking to put these arrangements into legislation and the rules permanently.</para>
<para>The bill also contains 13 further technical and machinery amendments, including changes relating to contributions, means assessments, refundable deposits, payment methods, reviews and the recovery of overpayments. The government has since moved amendments to the bill&#x2014;schedule 4&#x2014;to create a pathway for final assessment decisions to depart from the outcome produced by that integrated assessment tool algorithm. The Senate committee inquiry was reopened to consider those amendments. The coalition will not stand in the way of sensible measures that are contained in this bill. However, the fact that Labor is already having to make substantial legislative changes less than a year after its new Aged Care Act commenced demonstrates that the system was not ready when it was introduced and that Labor rushed through this reform. We see this over and over again from the Labor government. Labor promised a simpler, fairer and more responsive aged-care system. Instead, providers and older Australians are being forced to navigate an increasingly complex system that continues to require legislative and regulatory fixes&#x2014;let alone the stories that people are telling us out there in the community about their experience with aged care.</para>
<para>The bill establishes the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care commissioner, a recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety. Establishing a dedicated commissioner is intended to ensure the aged-care system is responsive to the needs of First Nations older Australians. The commissioner role is a permanent statutory position, but that must be accompanied by genuine improvements in the care Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people receive. We hear a lot from people about not even being able to connect to the system, let alone navigate it once they're in there. Responsibility for providing responsive care does not, however, sit with the Aboriginal community controlled sector alone. It is naive to think that they are perfect&#x2014;that they are the only people that should be providing care to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people&#x2014;and I think it is offensive to suggest that they should. It is a whole-of-sector responsibility. Choice and control should be available to everyone. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people must be able to retain choice and control, regardless of who they want to care for them as they age.</para>
<para>I turn now to schedule 4. Here we have Labor finally admitting the assessment algorithm is getting it wrong. How much evidence do you need to know you've got it wrong? By introducing schedule 4, the Albanese Labor government has, for the first time, conceded that its algorithm is producing the wrong outcomes for older Australians. You just need to ask people in communities across my home state, South Australia. They will tell you that over and over again, but they tell you with tears. They tell you with pain. Their families are frustrated. They're sad. They're terrified. That algorithm, as it currently is, stinks. As Professor Kathy Eagar told the Senate committee, a mechanism allowing final decisions to depart from the criteria built into the algorithm would be unnecessary if the algorithm were working as intended. This concession has come after almost a year of evidence from older Australians, assessors, providers and experts. Schedule 4 is a bandaid on a symptom, not a fix for the cause.</para>
<para>Add to that that there is no statutory timeframe for the department to decide on the outcome. The eligibility criteria, decision-making requirements and safeguards that will determine whether the pathway works in practice have been left to rules the government has not yet released. Parliament should not be asked to repeat the lack of transparency that created this problem in the first place. Officials were unable to explain whether anything in the act prevents the existing rules being amended to restore clinical discretion at the point of assessment&#x2014;the very discretion assessors were told they would have. It appears the minister could reinstate human override as part of the original decision-making process with the stroke of a pen.</para>
<para>Australians should not have to worry about the care of an aged parent or grandparent. They should be listened to. Their experiences, their concerns, their fears should be considered. But Labor has proven it is not prepared to do that.</para>
<para>On schedule 4, the coalition remains open to working with the government on amendments that would address those concerns with the algorithm. Unless the government is prepared to acknowledge that the algorithm has failed and set out a clear plan to correct it, the coalition is not willing to support a measure that treats only the symptom. Doing so risks entrenching a flawed system and relieving pressure on the government to undertake the fundamental reform that is required here.</para>
<para>Less than a year after Labor's so-called reform, here we are. We need a fix. The new Aged Care Act commenced in November 2025. While this bill fixes some of the symptoms, it does not address the fundamental problems with Labor's aged-care reforms. Older Australians are still waiting far too long for care, receiving inadequate interim funding and facing an assessment system that places too much weight on algorithms and bureaucracy and not enough on the care of older Australians. It doesn't fix the aged-care crisis.</para>
<para>The coalition supports the technical and machinery changes in this bill and, as I said, welcomes the establishment of the commissioner, but older Australians should be under no illusion that these amendments amount to fixing Labor's aged-care system, their so-called reform. This is a technical clean-up, not a reform bill, and that is exactly why the coalition is supporting its passage. Passing legislative housekeeping does not change the fact that, well over a year on from the commencement of Labor's new Aged Care Act, older Australians are still waiting longer for care, still navigating a broken assessment system and still with nowhere to turn as the crisis of Labor's own making continues to unfold. The computer generated, algorithm driven integrated assessment tool remains in operation without any human override capability despite mounting evidence from the former inspector-general of aged care. Providers from across the country, advocates and older Australians and their families have said that the tool is not delivering appropriate outcomes and is putting older Australians at risk.</para>
<para>Only a little over a week ago, I was in Clare in South Australia, where a lot of people go to retire, and we heard there from the community about issues with their assessments. You don't have to work in aged care. You don't have to be an expert in the algorithm. You just have to be prepared to listen to those people. It's not working. It needs to be changed. It is unfair and it is not providing them the care that they need. More than 100,000 older Australians remain on the national priority waitlist for a Support at Home package, while an additional 100,000 people are just waiting for an assessment. That's not just an issue for the person waiting for care; it's an issue for their families and loved ones too. Wait times for Support at Home have blown out to 10 months. The Commonwealth Home Support Program has been left in uncertainty, with providers withdrawing due to unclear future funding arrangements. Funding has also failed to keep pace with demand, while Labor's last-minute backflip on the future of CHSP came too little, too late. These issues are exacerbated in areas of thin markets in rural and regional Australia.</para>
<para>Labor's own data shows Australia needs to build 10,500 new residential aged-care beds every year for the next decade just to keep pace with demand&#x2014;yet in 2025-26, just 802 new beds were built. That is a massive shortfall at a time when older Australians are already being left stranded in hospitals because there simply aren't enough aged-care beds. Look no further than my state of South Australia. You want to see a real disaster in hospitals, in health care and in aged care, where there are hundreds of people sitting in hospitals that shouldn't be there? No wonder we have record ambulance ramping. Older and frail people deserve better than languishing in a hospital they don't need to be in, in a clinical setting like that.</para>
<para>Labor's latest AN-ACC funding increase is another blow to an already-struggling sector. A 2.55 per cent increase falls well short of CPI and health inflation, leaving providers to face rising costs while being expected to deliver more. We heard that again in Clare the other week. Providers who care for the people they've been caring for are doing stuff out of the goodness of their hearts. How is that fair? More than 3,000 older Australians are stuck in public hospital beds because there are no aged-care beds or Support at Home packages available&#x2014;a number that surged 30 per cent in just five months and is costing taxpayers well over $1 billion a year.</para>
<para>With home-care packages delayed, assessments backlogged and residential beds not being built, older Australians and their families are being left without options in a crisis of Labor's own making. This bill does nothing to address any of these failures. It does not fix the assessment tool. It does not clear the Support at Home waitlist. It does not fund a single new aged-care bed. It does not get one older Australian out of a hospital bed and into the care that they need. While the coalition will not oppose the passage of this bill, we will not allow its passage to be mistaken for Labor fixing aged care; that is not what this is. Older Australians deserve better than technical amendments; they deserve a government that delivers the care it promised.</para>
<para>These amendments might be technical, but the consequences of Labor's aged-care system are anything but technical for older Australians. Behind every assessment review, funding decision and administrative process is an older Australian waiting to receive care. Labor has created a system that is increasingly difficult for older Australians and their families to navigate. Older Australians should not have to fight through layers of bureaucracy to access care that they have already been assessed as needing. The coalition has consistently argued that the person must come before the process. That means restoring human judgement to assessments, reducing unnecessary bureaucracy and ensuring older Australians receive the care they need when they need it. Our focus is on making sure older Australians can access the care they need, not simply on making sure the legislation looks tidy on these pieces of paper. Aged care should be built around the person, not the process.</para>
<para>The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner was recommended by the royal commission, and that royal commission was initiated by the coalition. However, this bill is also a demonstration that Labor's new aged-care system has experienced significant implementation problems. This is a technical clean-up bill, which is why, as I said before, the coalition supports its passage. But Labor still has a long way to go to fix the aged-care crisis and to fix the failings of its own aged-care reform. Schedule 4 is a bandaid on a symptom, and, unless Labor acknowledges that the assessment algorithm has failed and sets a clear plan to fix it, the coalition is not willing to support a measure that treats only the symptom. Older Australians and their families deserve better government than what Labor is currently delivering.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITEAKER</name>
    <name.id>316555</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. This bill will establish a permanent Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner. It will give older First Nations people a dedicated advocate in the aged-care system, with responsibility for helping improve access to culturally safe care. This was a recommendation of the royal commission&#x2014;and an important one. It's an important one for the First Nations Australians in my home state of Western Australia, who live right across our beautiful state, from Perth in the south-west right up into the Kimberley and in very remote communities.</para>
<para>I am the Chair of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, which inquired into this bill, and I want to draw on some of the evidence that was provided through that inquiry and thank those who made submissions. The recommendations in our report reflect the importance of this role, the extensive community consultation that informed it and the improvements that this bill makes to the operations of the aged-care system.</para>
<para>At the centre of this bill are older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and their right to receive care that respects who they are. For an older person, receiving care involves substantial changes to their life. In the various aged-care related inquiries that I've overseen in my relatively short time as Chair of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, it's been really clear to me that that these are times that can be challenging to any older Australian who's having to make big decisions and face big changes about their life. It means allowing someone to come into their home, relying on help with extremely personal tasks or, in some cases, moving out of home and into a residential service, and those decisions and changes require trust. It's a big leap.</para>
<para>For older First Nations people, that presents a particular challenge, because that trust is affected, rightly, by experiences of discrimination and by the history of institutions, many of which have not treated older First Nations people with the respect and dignity that they deserve. So, when care fails to recognise those experiences, it deepens a person's reluctance to seek support, and we see that right across the country. Certainly we've heard that from older Australians in First Nations communities and the organisations that care for them. When care disregards language and cultural responsibilities or connection to country, it leaves people feeling isolated at precisely the time that they need reassurance and security. The Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety identified significant inequalities in access to culturally safe and appropriate aged care. It found that the system had not adequately recognised the distinct circumstances of our country's first people. In our inquiry into this bill, we heard the same thing. Older people and their communities and carers described a system that sometimes felt alienating and could be difficult to understand and challenging to access, and they also described care that did not adequately support their cultural needs.</para>
<para>It's this evidence that I think explains really clearly why an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner is so important to give First Nations people greater advocacy and support. We need to address the barriers that prevent older Australians from getting the support that they need and navigating a system that is complex, and that requires listening to First Nations people, who experience these barriers in a very particular way, and giving their priorities a place in the decisions that are made that shape our aged-care system.</para>
<para>The Aged Care Act 2024 already recognises the right of older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to culturally safe services, trauma-aware services and healing informed services. But this bill is an important addition to that. It's an important way of advancing that right through the establishment of a permanent commissioner. The commissioner will provide strategic leadership and advice, engage directly with communities and advocate for improvements across the system. It will promote cultural safety, support Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander providers&#x2014;who do really tough work in some of the hardest places in our country&#x2014;and strengthen the development of the aged-care workforce in many of these markets, which are thin. Its focus will extend beyond the people who are currently receiving services and will also engage with people who are missing out on care. I think this is really essential if we are to understand where access is failing and what needs to change.</para>
<para>This bill recognises the need to engage with a broad range of people, including those in remote communities and people with other additional challenges, people with disability and people whose first language is not English. This bill gives the commissioner really practical functions to help improve the care that people receive. It will provide guidance on cultural safety training and assessing and benchmarking for that training and will support providers to build their capacity to deliver culturally appropriate trauma-aware and healing informed services. The commissioner will advise on the design and delivery of Commonwealth aged-care policies and programs and assist older people, their families and their supporters with navigating the system. These functions connect the experiences of older First Nations people with the way that services are designed and delivered. It will help identify where providers need support and where government processes need to work better.</para>
<para>This permanent role has been established off the back of significant consultation. Andrea Kelly, as the inaugural Interim First Nations Aged Care Commissioner, held 135 forums and met more than 1,000 older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, family members, carers, community representatives and service providers, and I want to acknowledge her contribution to this reform. It provided an opportunity for people to explain their experience, to have their voices heard and to see their experiences reflected in this bill.</para>
<para>Our committee also received evidence from these organisations and many others like them&#x2014;advocacy groups, health professionals and aged-care providers&#x2014;and there was broad support for establishing this role. The National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Ageing and Aged Care Council emphasised the significance of this work. The Australian Medical Association and the Australian Indigenous Doctors' Association welcomed its contribution to care that responds to the needs and aspirations of elders. Many other submitters supported the commissioner's functions in community engagement, in workforce development and in improving access. That support was accompanied by many considered suggestions about how the role should work operationally, and those contributions also deserve attention, because the effectiveness of the commissioner will depend on the confidence of the people that it serves, and I have every confidence that that will be able to be delivered through this bill.</para>
<para>One thing that's really important to consider in the context of this bill and in the work of the commissioner is the decision to locate the office within the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission. The Aged Care Council of Elders supported the importance of this independent voice with direct access to the minister and the department, and it identified the benefits in locating the commissioner inside the regulator, where the needs of older Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people can inform its broader work. The National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation highlighted access to administrative and staffing support and the opportunity to influence quality standards and compliance as also being important in terms of co-locating this office within the quality and safety commission, and so our committee concluded that that arrangement does support a strong and independent advocate, and it follows similar arrangements to those already established for the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner.</para>
<para>This bill carries community participation into the appointment of the permanent commissioner. Again, this is an important way of giving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and their communities a voice in this process. It's important that this person is themselves a First Nations Australian and has significant experience in Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community life. These requirements recognise that the commissioner's effectiveness will depend on cultural knowledge and community trust because older Australians, particularly First Nations Australians, deserve to have confidence that their advocates understand their experiences and represent their priorities.</para>
<para>Another really important part of this role is the support it will give Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations to become registered aged-care providers. Community controlled organisations bring significant knowledge of local needs and relationships with the people they serve. Supporting their participation in aged care can help expand the availability of services in thin markets in remote and regional parts of our country. The commissioner will also support the design, development and delivery of workforce programs to build the capacity of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care workers and increase their representation in the workforce.</para>
<para>It is really important that we are clear about this role and why it is being established. It is to provide advocacy, advice and leadership, supported by real reporting and engagement functions. It will work inside the existing aged-care system alongside bodies that exercise real regulatory power.</para>
<para>I also want to talk very briefly to some of the other changes that are included in this bill. This bill makes practical improvements for older Australians across the aged-care system. It strengthens obligations on providers to refund fees and contributions that have been overcharged or overpaid. It restores flexibility in how people pay for residential accommodation while their means assessment is being finalised. It excludes local councillors from the definition of a responsible person, aligning their treatment with that of elected representatives at the state and territory level. But, importantly, relevant non-elected officials responsible for council aged-care services do remain within scope. These changes address a number of financial and administrative arrangements that impact people's care, and they provide for clearer understanding of the obligations that providers will need to be able to comply with. They help the system operate as intended.</para>
<para>An amendment to this bill that we've heard about in previous contributions provides an additional review pathway for the integrated assessment tool. This amendment responds to stakeholders and feedback from older Australians and advocacy groups. This pathway provides a practical safeguard for older people whose classification or priority category does not adequately reflect their circumstances or their care needs, importantly including deteriorating cognitive impairment and social vulnerability. This additional review pathway forms part of broader work by the government to improve the aged-care assessment process. This includes changes that we've already made to the assessment process and the rapid review of the Support at Home prioritisation mechanism.</para>
<para>I know that there are further improvements that the department has committed to overseeing as this rolls out. I know there are concerns about how this pathway will operate in practice, including about the time available to request a review and about the expertise of the reviewers. But the committee, in considering the evidence before it, came to the view that these issues can be appropriately addressed through the aged-care rules and supporting guidance.</para>
<para>I welcome the department's and our government's continued work on this. It's really important to us that older people have the right to review decisions when they feel that a decision does not reflect their circumstances, and we are committed to working closely with older people, with advocates and with clinicians to make sure that the rules and supporting guidance ensure this happens in a way that is fair. This is, of course, part of the broader work that our government has done to fix a broken aged-care system and to provide quality and safe care for all older Australians. For those reasons, I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. For First Peoples of this continent, elders are at the heart of our communities. They are not just leaders; they are responsible for passing down knowledge and culture and for ensuring connection to family and country. Without their wisdom, guidance and care, we cannot persevere. Despite their importance, our elders have faced inequity in access to care, worsening health outcomes and loss of connection to family, community, culture and country. In 2021, the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety acknowledged that the current aged-care system does not ensure culturally-safe care for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander older people. Our elders need an aged-care system that puts their lived experience, needs and culture at the centre.</para>
<para>Now, years after the royal commission, the Labor government is legislating for an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander aged-care commissioner. But Labor's current bill gives over no power to that commissioner. It is more tokenism and black cladding. They are using yet another blackfella to make it seem like the government cares about our people. This bill doesn't give the commissioner any staff. This bill doesn't even say the commissioner needs to be full time. The commissioner has to take orders from 'master minister', whoever that is, and the commissioner doesn't even have to consult with elders, community or anyone in the First People's aged-care sector on their annual work plan. The only person they have to consult with is their 'master minister'. My proposed amendments to this bill would fix all of these issues to make the commissioner position something more than black cladding.</para>
<para>Let's be clear here: don't mistake a black aged-care commissioner for self-determination. Giving us crumbs is not self-determination. Self-determination means the right to self-governance and to be the architects of our own future. When we say we never ceded sovereignty, it means we never gave up our right to self-determination or to self-governance. When this bill to legislate for an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander commissioner is passed, I am sure the commissioner will do their best to advocate for our elders to get more accessible and more culturally appropriate aged care. But, ultimately, they won't have the power to make decisions and change the system. They will be at the hands of the government and depend on what the government is willing to do. As much as the Albanese government might pat themselves on the back for putting another black commissioner in place, one person with very limited powers on their own cannot do much. By putting in black commissioners, the Albanese government can say it is doing something. In reality, my people continue to suffer at the hands of the colonised and unjust child protection system, justice system, health system and aged-care system.</para>
<para>These commissioner positions cannot be tokenistic advisers&#x2014;we have to see change&#x2014;like how the Voice was going to give us some tokenistic little advisers on the side. Why don't you just get an adviser? That's all you are doing with this commissioner. Change can only be achieved by First Peoples of this country self-determining their own lives and futures. Labor, you have to stop black cladding. We need action.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll move a second reading amendment to the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026, which has been circulated in the chamber by my colleague Senator Allman-Payne on behalf of the Australian Greens. At the request of Senator Allman-Payne, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that the Government&#x2019;s commitment to the Integrated Assessment Tool and the unfair co-payments system has hurt older people; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) abolish the Integrated Assessment Tool,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) end the regime of excessive co-payments, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) fully fund aged care, including in-home support".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that your contribution?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's the bulk of the contribution. However, now that I think about it, I'll just add a couple of points to this overall piece. The aged-care assessment tool that is the subject of the second reading amendment that I just spoke to represents, as far as I can tell, a kind of advanced evolutionary point of a current trend within government and bureaucratic decision-making. That trend is towards automated decision-making by government departments and by service delivery systems. We see it, as I said earlier, in what is intended for the NDIS. We see it in other areas. Health care came up as a topic of conversation during an earlier piece of legislative debate, and we heard a bit of a response to the concerns raised in that debate.</para>
<para>The Greens were framed by the government as scaremongering when it comes to automated decision-making in government processes. Well, I'm sorry&#x2014;if you look at what is actually happening to older people in Australia right now who are being subjected to the assessment tool, there is a lot to be scared of. This is horrendous. What we are finding, through inquiries and through evidence given by community members and advocates, is a tool which is systematically leading to older Australians being left without the funding and support that they need to be able to live with any kind of dignity.</para>
<para>People from the government have said, 'Well, government decision-making and government systems must be able to be simplified into systems and decision points that can be subjected to automated processes.' I'm sorry; human life doesn't really work like that, folks. I'm really, really sick&#x2014;and I know so many of my constituents in WA are sick to the back teeth&#x2014;of hearing Labor and Liberal governments moan about the complexity of delivering services to the communities that they were elected and commissioned to serve, as though the community is meant to feel sorry for a government and a bureaucracy that was, at times, being forced to reckon with the fact that people don't fit neatly into boxes.</para>
<para>I've had senior government bureaucrats give evidence in estimates and outline in detail how difficult it is for their teams to work in situations where there might be a right to appeal or a right to query a decision made by government, how unreasonable that level of flexibility is. Well, that's not good enough, folks, because older people, disabled people, people accessing the healthcare system&#x2014;they vote at elections and they expect and demand a government that is able to deliver services that reflect the complexity of their experience and the complexity of their needs. What we have in the aged-care assessment tool is something which has utterly failed to do that, leaving so many people without&#x2014;the very people we should be dedicated every day to providing with the support they need, when they need it, in the way that works best for them.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026 amends the Aged Care Act 2024 to, firstly, establish yet another permanent statutory office, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner, within the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission; secondly, to incorporate temporary modifications made to the Aged Care (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) (Aged Care System Modification) Rules 2025 into the Aged Care Act and Aged Care Rules 2025 and repeal the instrument; and, thirdly, to vary arrangements concerning refundable deposits, including their use while an individual awaits a means-test assessment, the ability to transfer deposits between providers and the treatment of deposits in aged-care means-testing. One Nation is in support of these long-overdue changes. Fourthly, it will make other administrative and regulatory amendments concerning direct-care staff, local government providers, specialised residential care homes, residential care subsidies, fee advice notices, deemed decisions and the recovery of Commonwealth overpayments.</para>
<para>This bill has been referred to two committees for reporting&#x2014;the second because the government added a new schedule late in the passage of the bill. Both reports recommend the bill be passed. I note once again that the Labor government has packaged something we do agree with&#x2014;the improvements and technical clean-up in schedules 2, 3 and 4 of the bill&#x2014;with something we do not agree with, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner. This is designed to force One Nation to oppose the bill and, in so doing, provide social media fodder for the ALP and the Greens at the next election. They want to claim One Nation opposed reforms to help our elderly. It's a wedge, another bloody wedge&#x2014;one of the many wedges this cynical Labor government have used lately to entertain themselves while everyday Australians continue to go backwards. You don't care about the people.</para>
<para>One Nation has moved an amendment on sheet No. 4177 to remove the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander commissioner provisions and leave the remainder of the bill intact. One Nation opposes discriminating against Australians based on physical characteristics, including ethnicity, age, sex, sexual orientation and disability. Positive discrimination is still discrimination. It seeks to present a morally superior position which inevitably fails in a perfect storm of cost escalation, empire building, self-interest, mission creep and unexpected consequences that the taxpayers pay for.</para>
<para>According to the Guardian newspaper, Aboriginal children in Australia have historically been murdered at roughly three times the rate of non-Aboriginal counterparts&#x2014;three times. Aboriginal children experience rape at five times the rate of non-Aboriginal children, a figure that's underreported to the point of official data being useless&#x2014;bloody useless. Aboriginal children are being left in squalor without adult supervision. All of this is under the watchful gaze of the virtue-signalling elites who advance bills like this and then crack open the chardonnay to celebrate how worthy they are. This government and state governments won't stop Aboriginal children being raped and murdered, yet they have the money for a dedicated Aboriginal aged-care commissioner and their staff. This will of course lead to more regulations and higher costs for everyone. The entire idea, of course, will have no KPIs&#x2014;not one&#x2014;to measure progress, because for Labor it's not about the outcome; it's about feelings.</para>
<para>We do not need an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner. We need our aged-care system to support everyone that it's tasked with supporting. A One Nation government will send its attorney-general into Aboriginal communities, along with ministers for housing, health and infrastructure, to fix the crime and the structural problems behind these heartbreaking, unacceptable statistics&#x2014;unacceptable to most Australians but not the government.</para>
<para>We will create jobs to restore the future of Aboriginal communities, using mining and value-adding of raw production, including in agriculture. We will oversee Australia's largest infrastructure project, the northern rail crossing from east to west, part of the national rail loop, to bring rail transport, water, electricity and the internet to remote communities. That's our idea of helping the Aboriginal community, not this window dressing BS.</para>
<para>Anyone who thinks this is a good idea need only look at Closing the Gap. A measure there intended to reduce the life expectancy gap between Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians has in part failed, completely failed, with life expectancy in recent data getting worse for Aboriginals, not better. An analysis of government outlays over the first eight years of the strategy alone, from 2008 to 2016, calculated that total combined spending towards meeting the Closing the Gap targets exceeded&#x2014;wait for it&#x2014;$130.2 billion. The source of that data is Adam Creighton in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> quoting the Productivity Commission data on 12 February 2018. The Productivity Commission estimated in 2017 that federal government spending on Aboriginal affairs was $25 billion a year. I see nothing to suggest that that number has been going down since then. And then add the state spending.</para>
<para>I hope the Senate will realise it's time to change course on the Aboriginal industry. Stop funding more parasites in consultants, academics, lawyers, bureaucrats and larger top-end supervisors. Instead, directly fund the communities where it's needed. I'll say it again. This is what we're advocating: instead of the parasites getting the money, let's get it to the communities, to fund the communities, where it's needed directly.</para>
<para>Moving on, the new schedule 4, added in the House of Reps, makes changes to take account of criticism of the government's use of AI for decision-making. Applications for aged care have for the last year been determined using AI, not human beings. The Albanese government implemented a system last year which featured strict prohibition of human override. Expert, qualified human-needs assessors were explicitly barred from altering or overriding the algorithm's outputs, even when they knew a decision was clinically wrong. Second was the systemic under-assessment of vulnerable people. Critics noted that the rigid computer program frequently failed to capture the complex realities of ageing, leaving vulnerable older Australians without adequate funding or essential homecare packages. Without their packages&#x2014;so much for care! Third was the lack of consultation and transparency. The automated tool was introduced quietly with no public consultation, no industry trials and no transparency regarding the underlying algorithm&#x2014;no openness; just a secretive AI. Fourth was the severe bureaucratic backlogs. Appeals against robodecisions ballooned sixfold after the system rolled out, meaning many elderly citizens faced extensive waiting lists, with some tragically dying before their reviews were resolved. Robo decision-making is a counterproductive efficiency measure, and I wonder about the real motivation for robo decision-making.</para>
<para>This Labor government has declared war on the elderly. Just listen to these: removing their health insurance discount rebate, forcing more elderly Australians into the public health system and, in the end, costing taxpayers at least $2 billion more a year in public health to save $350 million on the rebate. That $2 billion figure is likely conservative, with up to 75,000 elderly Australians being forced to give up private health, almost double the government estimate&#x2014;your estimate, doubled. The Albanese government tried to introduce co-contributions on personal care for aged pensioners. This was so badly received that the government backed down&#x2014;you backed down&#x2014;and agreed that vital personal care, like bathing and dressing, would not require out-of-pocket fees. Increased costs for capital and daily living&#x2014;self-funded retirees and part pensioners must pay significantly higher means tested fees for everyday accommodation, capital contributions and clinical assistance.</para>
<para>The Support at Home mess&#x2014;the government absorbed existing homecare packages into the new Support at Home framework. Seniors groups have heavily criticised the measure for severe package backlogs, long wait times and plans to fold the entry-level Commonwealth Home Support Program into it, which critics say threatens independent living in regional and remote communities. The government lifted social security deeming rates by 0.5 per cent&#x2014;half a per cent!&#x2014;which means that, even if pensioners' bank accounts are not yielding high interest, Centrelink now legally assumes they are anyway and adds made up unpaid interest to their income, reducing their pension. That's what you're doing. You're basically stealing money from pensioners. For older veterans reliant on specialised treatments, the government produced a $5,000 annual cap on allied health services. Older veterans who require year-round support were told to pay for it themselves&#x2014;'Just pay for it yourself'&#x2014;a measure that the Senate forced the government to withdraw. It's no wonder the government wanted to use robo decision-making to deflect the blame for this attack on elderly Australians away from themselves&#x2014;cowardly, dishonest, a lie.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 in this bill will help in improving rules around robodecisions. It must be the law that any decision taken using AI be subject to human review. A One Nation government will introduce legislation to prevent computerised decision-making anywhere in the government. AI can do the legwork, sure. It should never, though, be used to make a decision, let alone make final decisions that a qualified staff member cannot overturn when an error is detected.</para>
<para>I foreshadow second reading amendment 4176, which has been advanced in response to many constituent concerns around the expansion of and advocacy for voluntary assisted dying. Voluntary assisted dying is now legal in all states. Nothing in our amendment advocates against voluntary assisted dying occurring. It simply seeks to protect aged-care providers who have a conscientious objection to providing voluntary assisted dying services on their premises. A religious objection is the most common conscientious objection. New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia have a law in place which explicitly regulates institutional objections. They mandate that residential aged-care facilities must not block external voluntary assisted dying practitioners from entering the premises. Because an aged-care room is legally considered a resident's home, facilities are required to allow all stages of the voluntary assisted dying process, from consultations to death, to take place onsite. In Ontario and British Columbia, provincial governments in Canada have removed the right for aged-care facilities and hospitals to refuse voluntary assisted dying. This is very troubling to me, and it's troubling my constituents. Our amendment seeks to provide support for aged-care facilities with encouragement that they're not alone and to hold the line and uphold their convictions.</para>
<para>This amendment is not about voluntary assisted dying as much as it's about freedom of conscience and freedom of religion. Currently, in South Australia, healthcare providers can opt out of voluntary assisted dying if they advise residents that the facility does not offer voluntary assisted dying. This allows the resident a transfer to a facility that does offer voluntary assisted dying. My amendment reflects this sensible compromise. The South Australian model works and should be the national model. In the very difficult, emotive space of euthanasia, it's very important to respect the differing views in the community and to allow residents to choose a non-voluntary-assisted-dying facility if they so want and for providers to opt out of voluntary assisted dying if it conflicts with their values. I ask the Senate to support my amendment 4176.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to acknowledge and thank all of the senators who spoke on the Aged Care Legislation Amendment (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner and Other Measures) Bill 2026. The amendment bill ensures that the Aged Care Act 2024 functions effectively and upholds the integrity of our aged-care system, maintaining its relevance to the evolving needs of older Australians. The bill establishes the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Aged Care Commissioner, reflecting the government's strong commitment to meeting the ongoing needs and aspirations of First Nations elders and our commitment to addressing the recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety. I thank senators for their contributions to debate on this bill.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I put the question on the second reading, I should advise that the chair has two amendments here. So the first question that I'll put is that the second reading amendment that's been moved by Senator Steele-John on behalf of Senator Allman-Payne on sheet 4180 be agreed to. A division having been called, I remind senators that, it being after 6.30 pm, we will defer the division for consideration on another day of sitting. Just for everyone's understanding, the bill will now be adjourned till tomorrow, because we cannot deal with anything, given that divisions have been deferred.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1>
  <subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Technical Changes No. 2) Bill 2026</title>
          <page.no>111</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo>
  <subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r7515" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Technical Changes No. 2) Bill 2026</span>
              </p>
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        </subdebate.text>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>111</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Technical Changes No. 2) Bill 2026. The bill comprises nine schedules to make minor and technical amendments across social services, child support and family assistance legislation to ensure the legislation reflects the administrative practices being undertaken for the delivery of payments.</para>
<para>Schedule 1 of the bill amends the family assistance act to allow the automation of applications for advance payments so people can apply for payment online as well as over the phone or in person. More than 2.7 million advance payments were processed in the previous financial year, an essential lifeline for people who find themselves in a difficult situation with urgent bills to pay, like electricity and gas bills; with repairs to their home or in replacing essential items, like their fridge; with unexpected medical costs or in buying work supplies, like boots or tools, for their new job.</para>
<para>These changes will allow requests for advance payments to be made online so people can apply for them when they need them and in a way that best suits their circumstances. The changes in this schedule will also support people by introducing more flexibility to repayment amounts. If people find they are in a position to make their repayments quicker, they will be able to do so. Equally, if they need more time to repay the debt, that can be approved too.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 of the bill will amend the Administrative Review Tribunal Act and the family assistance act to allow the secretary to alter certain social services decisions undergoing a review at the Administrative Review Tribunal to ensure decisions reflect the most up-to-date information available. It is hoped that this will expedite some decisions that end up at the ART and ensure that both the ART and Services Australia have the most up to date information when considering appeals of decisions.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 will amend the family assistance act to ensure the agency can use pre-issue income data from the Australian Tax Office to complete reconciliations of a person's entitlement to family tax benefit. Pre-issue income data is the income a person has on file with the ATO. Essentially, it uses what has been reported by your employer as your income to date to determine what your annual income is. This information could also be used to determine a person's entitlement to FTB or the single income family supplement and apply end-of-year notification requirements to recipients who are not required to lodge a tax return. The use of a person's pre-issue income data will help Services Australia make more accurate payment decisions and should lead to fewer debts being created. Most importantly, these changes do not take away a person's right to seek review of any decision or appeal the decision should they disagree with it.</para>
<para>Flowing on from that, schedule 4 of the bill will amend the family assistance act to allow the pre-issue income data to be used for childcare subsidy reconciliations and to ensure a person's entitlement is updated when their income changes. Again, this will help ensure a person's payment is accurate and large debts aren't created. While stakeholders support the use of pre-issue income data at a general level, Economic Justice Australia and Single Mother Families Australia have raised some concerns about the long-term use of pre-issue income data where it differs from a person's final assessment amount. I would strongly encourage the Minister for Social Services and her department to carefully consider this point because it is important that we have correct assessments. A person's final assessment amount should be used as soon as possible to make a determination on their payment entitlement.</para>
<para>Schedule 5 of the bill will amend the child support act to allow a person's pre-issue income data to be used for child support assessments. This change is particularly important. Single Mother Families Australia, Relationships Australia and even the Commonwealth Ombudsman are supportive of these changes because getting child support payments right matters. Relationships Australia have said the use of pre-issue income data will help address the weaponisation of the child support system by thwarting a payer's attempt to delay assessment of their tax obligation by ensuring that we have more current and more accurate child support assessments.</para>
<para>Under the Albanese Labor government, child support debt has skyrocketed. Outstanding child support debt has hit record high levels, with more than $2 billion now owed by parents. That's $2 billion that should be in the pockets of parents and carers to raise children. We are in a cost-of-living crisis where we know families are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and put food on the table. Far too often, we hear about parents who are doing the wrong thing&#x2014;going on overseas holidays, buying new cars and boats, and failing to lodge their tax returns so their payments don't go up.</para>
<para>Around 230,000 parents owe a debt, with the average debt now sitting at $8,675. Astoundingly, the highest debt owed is $2 million. Ten parents have debts of more than $1 million, and another 190 parents owe more than $150,000 in child support payments. Of the 230,000 parents that owe a debt, only 33,000 have wage garnishing orders in place to recover the debt from their pay. That's just 14 per cent of parents with a debt. Worse still, there are only just over 4,000 departure prohibition orders in place to stop parents travelling overseas if they owe a debt. That's less than two per cent of debtors. Child support payments are not optional. Parents have a moral and legal obligation to pay child support. This money is to help raise, feed and clothe your children. It has nothing to do with your ex-partner; it is always about putting your children first. The Albanese Labor government needs to use every power it has to start collecting on these debts, because this is unacceptable.</para>
<para>Schedule 6 of the bill will amend the family assistance act to enable merit reviews of decisions to use tax refunds to offset family assistance debts like the family tax benefit. Schedule 7 of the bill will amend the Paid Parental Leave Act to ensure that a person's paid parental leave superannuation contribution reflects the settings of the scheme. This will ensure that, if a person's paid parental leave amount is changed after their initial claim, the superannuation contribution is based on the actual entitlement. Schedule 8 will make minor amendments to the Social Security Act to confirm in the legislation that a restriction on requesting urgent payments is triggered once a person has been paid their 10th urgent payment rather than when their next request is rejected. Schedule 9 of the bill will fix minor cross-referencing errors in the legislation between this bill and the last technical bill in 2025. As I said at the outset of my speech, this bill is technical in nature, and the coalition will support these changes.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Technical Changes No. 2) Bill 2026. I begin by moving my second reading amendment on sheet 3923:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) release any reports arising from the Department of Social Services consultation on the future of income management; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) respond to the recommendations made by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights in the report of its inquiry into compulsory income management tabled in September 2024; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) introduce legislation to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) abolish the partner income test for all social security payments, ensuring that a partner's income will no longer be required to be considered for a social security payment for an individual in recognition that the test forces people to be financially dependent on their partners,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) abolish the parental income test for Youth Allowance for those 18 years and over or not living at home, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) reinstate a six-year limitation period on debt recovery proceedings as recommended by the Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme".</para></quote>
<para>This bill is more proof that Australia's social security system is too complex and often inaccessible. Services Australia can't seem to grasp social security law&#x2014;and they're the ones administering it. Every day, people who are sick, working, parenting, elderly, disabled or just trying to live their lives are punished for making minor mistakes. This government has made the deliberate choice to keep all social security payments below the poverty line. It's Anti-Poverty Week. The fact that we even have to have an anti-poverty week should be a source of shame. It's the start of Anti-Poverty Week, and instead of ending government induced poverty the Minister for Social Services has announced meagre funding for emergency relief charities that amounts to less than $1 per welfare recipient, while people in this country are dying from poverty.</para>
<para>The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare's latest report on mortality outcomes showed that people accessing the JobSeeker payment are up to 10 times more likely to die than people not on any income support. Almost three in five people aged 22 to 64 who passed away between 2012 and 2022 were accessing income support. Social security is supposed to help people. It's in the name&#x2014;'security'. But governments, including this one, continue to impose strict conditions policing the ways people can get support and what people must do to get that support. It's gatekeeping, and it's killing people. Poverty is always a political choice.</para>
<para>The Greens support the part of this bill that makes accessing advance payments easier for people facing sudden costs. But the reality is that social security payments are so ridiculously low that people are trapped in cycles of applying for and paying off advanced payments. People rely on advanced payments because they can't afford the everyday necessities. Every necessary expense becomes unaffordable without an advance. People are trapped in a constant state of crisis&#x2014;and that's even more true for remote areas of Australia, where living costs are up to 40 per cent higher.</para>
<para>Today I met with the Central Land Council, who are asking the government, yet again, to please raise the Remote Area Allowance, and not just by indexation, which the government regularly likes to claim is an increase. Indexation is simply trying to keep up with inflation. People in remote areas need a meaningful increase to the Remote Area Allowance. Go to Warraber Island. It's $10, minimum, just for a carton of milk and $70 for a piece of steak. These are things that the government should and needs to act on.</para>
<para>Many remote communities rely on diesel generators or diesel fuelled trucks to deliver produce to the local store. Now, because of the war in Iran, which this government was first out of the gate to support, those costs are higher than ever. In the Territory, even funeral costs have gone up. First Nations families are having to fork out $10,000 for a basic funeral just to bury their loved ones on their own country, yet the government has refused to allow the Remote Area Allowance to keep pace with these costs. Shamefully, the Remote Area Allowance sits at a maximum of $9.10 extra each week&#x2014;not even enough for a carton of milk in places like Warraber Island&#x2014;and has only ever been increased twice, unlike other payments that are indexed yearly. Remote communities are no less deserving of fresh food and fuel than people living in cities. A real social security system&#x2014;one that was designed to provide people with security&#x2014;would ensure that everyone has enough to live a good life regardless of their postcode.</para>
<para>The Australian government must also use every lever at its disposal to end femicide in this country. Government support should not be restricted based on someone's relationship status, yet the unfair and discriminatory practice of partner income testing forces women and disabled people into financial dependency. The evidence tells us this. Advocates tell us this. The government needs to listen. Nobody should be financially punished for who they love, but that's what the government is doing.</para>
<para>Research by disability advocate Sophia Redjeb has highlighted the significant harm wielded by partner income testing against people who are just trying to get support. People subject to partner income testing describe financial dependency, hardship, relationship strain and safety concerns. Alarmingly, 44 per cent of respondents said that the partner income test had made them feel unsafe or prevented them from leaving a relationship. This practice, at its best, forces financial dependency on partners. At its worst, it facilitates financial abuse and denies victim-survivors the means to escape dangerous situations. Perpetrators of family violence may withhold financial records or lie to the victim-survivor about their income, resulting in the victim-survivor unknowingly misreporting their joint income to Services Australia. When the victim-survivor accrues a debt as a result, they are left to deal with the consequences&#x2014;yet another financial harm inflicted by their abuser, and the government lets that happen.</para>
<para>The government repeatedly justifies partner income testing by saying it's a work incentive, but 46 per cent of disabled Australians cannot work and rely solely on the disability support pension to survive. Even disabled people who have been assessed by Services Australia as having zero hours job capacity, meaning the government recognises that they are medically exempt from work, are still subject to partner income testing. This government has repeatedly talked about lived experience. Report after report calls for people's lived experience to be recognised as expertise; that people are experts in their own lives and know best what support they need. But this government refuses to listen to disabled people and victim-survivors of domestic violence when they tell them they need an end to partner income testing to be safe.</para>
<para>When asked about partner income testing in the report <inline font-style="italic">The human cost of the partner income test</inline>, disabled people said, things like, 'My partner's income doesn't make me any less disabled.' They said no government agency has explained why it is the partner's sole responsibility to ensure the welfare recipient's financial wellbeing. Well, that's because the government knows that it doesn't make sense. This respondent put it best: 'I will never be in an equal relationship until this test is eliminated.' The Greens believe in relationship equality and equal access to social security. Partner income testing must be abolished so that Services Australia can focus on delivering support, not probing into people's love and sex lives.</para>
<para>This bill also makes it easier for the government to recoup debt from single mothers' tax returns. Governments have learnt nothing from robodebt, and social security bill after social security bill remains hell-bent on debt recovery rather than supporting people who need it. Schedule 3 of this bill is more of the same, allowing the government to automatically take money out of women's tax returns to pay off family tax benefit debts, some of which we know have been calculated incorrectly.</para>
<para>Some of the families harmed by robodebt are still waiting for compensation. Mothers who lost loved ones because of a punitive scheme designed to extort income support recipients have been barred from the class action, but they are not invisible, and the Greens will keep fighting for them until the robodebt royal commission recommendations are implemented in full. That includes full and fair compensation for everyone touched by the scheme, and it includes making sure something like robodebt never happens again.</para>
<para>For this reason, the Greens support reinstating the six-year debt recovery limitation, a recommendation of the robodebt royal commission that still remains outstanding. The Greens want to see social security reform that focuses on creating a system that makes sure help is there for all of us whenever we need it, not a system that forces hundreds of thousands of Australians to live well below the poverty line; not a system that sees one in six kids living in poverty; not a system that forces people into the punitive Targeted Compliance Framework, which this government still cannot reassure us is lawful; and not a system that forces people to reveal intimate details about their love and sex lives for a partner income test that we know forces women into situations of domestic violence that are unsafe and forces people with a disability into unsafe relationships with partners. These are all things that a government that genuinely does not want to leave a single Australian behind would do. That is the job of government.</para>
<para>Our Constitution says people are entitled to social security. This government needs to deliver on that and not continue to prop up a system which it cannot say with certainty is lawful, which requires bill after bill after bill to come into this place to fix the errors and which continuously gives the government and the department a free pass for those errors when the system that they oversee punishes and punches down on people who rely on welfare and who are living in poverty in a cost-of-living crisis that is grinding them further and further into the ground. A government that genuinely cared about every citizen in this country&#x2014;a government that, when the Prime Minister says the Labor Party does not want to leave anybody behind, truly believed that&#x2014;would raise the rate of income support, abolish the partner income test, abolish mutual obligations and finally deliver a social security system that lifts people up instead of continually punishing them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Technical Changes No. 2) Bill 2026 includes technical amendments to ensure that social security, family payments and child support programs operate as intended. It includes amendments to improve the operation of advanced payments and family tax benefit processes and to address technical issues across the child support and family payment systems. The government remains committed to ensuring our social security system is up to date and fit for purpose. This is a technical bill that ensures the systems that people rely on are up to date and working effectively, ensuring people have confidence in government processes and systems that underpin them. The government will always do what it can to help those most in need, which is why we continue to deliver targeted and responsible support for social security recipients and have announced the most significant reforms to the child support system in many years, aimed at closing loopholes that can be weaponised to cause financial abuse. The government will continue to take opportunities to address technical issues across the social security and family payment system while also considering opportunities for broader policy reform that is in the best interests of the Australian people.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll now put the question that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Allman-Payne be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
  <subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>114</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the Greens amendments seek to protect a woman's right to be financially independent from her partner and to prevent ex-partners from weaponising the child support system. Currently, the New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999 requires Services Australia to assume that a parent who uses private collect has been paid the full amount of child support that they are owed, regardless of whether or not the child support has actually been received. In practice, this legislative assumption artificially inflates the receiving parent's income, resulting in a family tax benefit debt. Because of this legislative presumption, women are doubly squeezed. Ex-partners withhold the child support that women are owed, and Services Australia simultaneously raises and recoups family tax benefit debts against women.</para>
<para>We know that there is widespread manipulation and weaponization of child support, often as an extension of abuse that happened within a relationship. Mothers and children are hurt the most by this abuse. One in five children are in the child support scheme and all of them deserve the financial support required to have fulfilling childhoods, yet two-thirds of single mothers are owed child support and many of those same mothers also face enormous tax bills, because their ex-partner has been able to use the system against them. The government chasing women for debts when child support is still owed is outrageous and unfair. It puts women and children at financial risk and it amplifies the impact of their exes' financial abuse.</para>
<para>Since our amendment was circulated, the government has introduced their first 'ending financial abuse in the child support scheme' bill, and one of the provisions in this bill makes a small change to family tax benefit debts for women privately managing child support. While the announcement is a step in the right direction in making these systems safer, it still puts the burden overwhelmingly on the shoulders of women. Unlike the Greens's amendment to this current bill, the government's proposal just puts more responsibility at women's feet.</para>
<para>Instead of preventing unfair family tax benefit debts in the first place, the government has only suggested holding off on recouping family tax benefit debts for three months. During those three months, women are expected to contact the other parent to chase down the child support that they're owed. This reinforces the burden mainly on single mothers for the financial irresponsibility of other parents and ignores the reality of women who are victim-survivors of coercive control and economic abuse. Exemptions that require self-reporting just mean that women who are in dangerous situations are punished by our social security system, rather than supported.</para>
<para>Minister, will your government support the Greens's amendment to this bill, which essentially just requires Services Australia to do their homework and use every measure possible to verify whether child support has actually been paid before raising a family tax benefit debt?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's good to get to this point today. We've been dealing with a lot of legislation. The issues that Senator Allman-Payne raise in relation to this amendment&#x2014;the amendment proposes that the legislation be amended to remove deeming in private collection arrangements so we no longer assume people have collected their full child support entitlement and we create an obligation on the secretary to notify an individual of the child support collection methods and how they affect family tax benefit payments. The effect of the amendment proposed by the Greens will mean that amounts of privately collected child support will only be counted under the family tax benefit maintenance income test when a parent declares that they have received such income.</para>
<para>The government won't be supporting this amendment proposed by the Greens. But I would also say that Minister Plibersek and I have been looking at this issue closely. It has been raised with us by a number of organisations, mainly women's organisations, who feel that the child support system can be used in a way that impacts the primary parent and, in certain situations, creates a debt around family tax benefit payment. So looking at the ways that those two systems interact is part of the work that Minister Plibersek and I have announced. Not only have we announced it; we have put money in the budget to deal with it&#x2014;to reduce the weaponisation of the child support system and the way that it impacts the family tax benefit, in particular the accrual of debts owing to the primary parent in relation to how the other parent pays or provides that child support money.</para>
<para>We will have a bill to enact the first tranche of those reforms; I think it's in the House now. Yes, it has been introduced into the House. That will deal with some of the issues that are identified by this amendment. This bill is a technical bill that makes necessary but minor legislative changes to ensure legal clarity and alignment between legislation, policy and practice.</para>
<para>So, Senator Allman-Payne, there is a bill coming your way and coming the way of the Senate that will be, I think, a more appropriate vehicle for some of these discussions around how those two systems interact. We are aware of it. That's why we're the first government ever to tackle this issue. As Minister for Women, I have met with kids who have come through the child support system who have had one parent behave in a way that has kept them in poverty and often in a way that mean debts have been incurred by the primary carer parent because of the way the system works. So the work that Minister Plibersek and I have done is around systems abuse. We've got a taskforce that works across government looking at areas where systems can be weaponised. The area that was identified as the most urgent for government attention was child support. Through that, it was not only the nonpayment of child support, the noncompliance with child support and the different arrangements between agency collect and private collect but also how the payment interacts with other payments across our payment system. They are the areas where the allocation of funding has been made by this government.</para>
<para>It's over $200 million. I'm trying to think of what the number is. It's well over $200 million. I think maybe $220 million is going into making sure our IT systems in particular but also our policy responses are able to deal with some of the impacts of the weaponisation of the child support system. It's things like nonpayment as punishment and how we deal with that. It's how we enforce departure orders&#x2014;that's for the people who are refusing to pay but then want to go overseas. It's how people report, or don't report, their income through the tax office. Nonreporting for a number of years their income is what leads to the issue with the family tax payment because the primary carer doesn't get the payment and so they are then are eligible for the family tax payment only to have the other parent then lodge all of their income returns for a number of years and, all of a sudden, that primary parent is in debt to Centrelink because they've been overpaid family tax payment prior to that income being provided to them.</para>
<para>These are all the areas that the government has acknowledged are a problem. We can't be out lecturing other organisations about ensuring their systems don't weaponise domestic family abuse or violence and not have a look at our own systems. So, whilst we won't be supporting this amendment, we do acknowledge this. There is a bill currently in the House that will make its way to the Senate&#x2014;and hopefully the Senate will be able to deal with it&#x2014;that will allow us to stop some of the behaviour that we've been seeing. We believe that, if you have dependent children, regardless of whether your relationship breaks down, you have a responsibility to look after those children until they are adults.</para>
<para>We have two different systems&#x2014;private collect and agency collect. It is up to individuals to determine how they want to engage with the child support system. Sorry, I should correct the record. It's a $183 million package of targeted reforms to make the child support system safer and fairer. These reforms are the first major changes to the child support system in nearly 20 years. Even though many have known about these issues and campaigns have been held to change the way our system operates, we are the first government that's actually stumped up the money for changing this and making the system work better for children and for those primary parents.</para>
<para>I've met with primary parents in a number of jurisdictions. I've met with adults around the country who as children lived under the system where these problems emerged. It's hard to have a meeting like that and not walk away wanting to do everything you can to change the system for the better. I think of the bravery of some of those kids. One who's just a university student out of home acknowledged that their carer parent worked a couple of jobs in order to get them through school and through university because the other parent made a choice about whether or not they were prepared to pay for their children as a punishment to that other parent. It is impossible to leave those meetings and not want to ensure that you're doing everything you can to make the system better and fairer.</para>
<para>So I understand where Senator Allman-Payne is coming from. I understand the motivation&#x2014;the good motivation&#x2014;behind some of the changes she seeks. But we don't believe this bill is the appropriate place, and there is another bill coming your way for this discussion to be had.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Minister. It being 8 pm, I shall report to the Senate.</para>
<para>Progress reported.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>116</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Heseltine, Sir William Frederick Payne, GCB, GCVO, AC, QSO, PC</title>
          <page.no>116</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to pay tribute to one of Western Australia's most remarkable sons, Sir William Heseltine, GCB, GCVO, AC, QSO, PC, who died on 2 October at the age of 96. His was an extraordinary Australian story: from East Fremantle to Buckingham Palace, and, ultimately, to the position of Private Secretary to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. He remains the only Australian ever to have held that office.</para>
<para>Born in 1930 to two schoolteachers, William Heseltine spent part of his childhood in Wyalkatchem, before attending Christ Church Grammar School in Claremont. He graduated from the University of Western Australia with first class honours in history, and began his career in Canberra. His abilities were quickly recognised. At just 25, he became private secretary to Prime Minister Robert Menzies, placing a young Western Australian alongside one of the towering figures of Australian political life.</para>
<para>In 1960 came an opportunity that would change his life. He was selected for a posting to Buckingham Palace as an assistant information officer. Sir William recalled responding: 'I've never had anything to do with the press.' The reply was wonderfully dry: 'They'll probably consider that an advantage.' He soon encountered a palace press operation firmly rooted in another era. Its formidable head, Commander Richard Colville, believed his job was largely to keep journalists at bay. His refusal of almost every request earned him a memorable nickname from the press: 'the Abominable No Man'. Sir William brought a different instinct. He recognised that changing times required the monarchy to communicate differently&#x2014;not by diminishing its traditions, but by making them more accessible. As he later observed, the monarchy did not need to be 'too avant-garde', but it could not afford to fall too far behind the times. That philosophy would help shape the modern monarchy.</para>
<para>When Sir William became press secretary in 1968, he helped pioneer a new relationship between Buckingham Palace, the media and the public. He was instrumental in the groundbreaking 1969 <inline font-style="italic">Royal Family</inline> documentary, which offered millions of people an unprecedented glimpse behind palace walls. He also developed another innovation now synonymous with royal visits: the royal walkabout. Today these seem things seem unremarkable. At the time, they were regarded as revolutionary. Sir William understood that enduring institutions must know how to change without losing what makes them endure.</para>
<para>His career at the palace continued as private secretary, deputy private secretary and, finally, private secretary to the Queen from 1986 until 1990. He had travelled a remarkable distance from the young Western Australian who arrived in London with no experience of the press. Yet what distinguished him was not simply how far he rose, but how he conducted himself when he got there. He brought judgement, discretion, humour and integrity to one of the most sensitive positions in public life.</para>
<para>Between periods of royal service, Sir William also served as assistant federal director of the Liberal Party and maintained a lifelong interest in its fortunes. But he understood that absolute distinction between personal political belief and his duty to the sovereign. That was characteristic of the man: beliefs firmly held; duties faithfully discharged. After retiring from royal service in 1990, Sir William returned to Western Australia. He remained active in business and community life and served as president of the Royal Western Australian Historical Society.</para>
<para>He also remained in correspondence with the Queen until her death in 2022. After her passing, Sir William reflected that he always left conversations with the Queen feeling rather uplifted. It was a simple observation that spoke to a relationship built over decades on trust, respect and affection.</para>
<para>From Wyalkatchem and East Fremantle to Canberra and Buckingham Palace, he stood close to history without ever needing to place himself at its centre. He modernised without discarding tradition, he advised without seeking attention and he served without making service about himself. That is a considerable legacy.</para>
<para>In Perth this morning, Sir William was farewelled by family and friends at Christ Church, Claremont. Western Australia has lost one of its most distinguished sons, Australia has lost an exceptional public servant, and the Crown has lost a devoted and trusted servant whose contribution deserves to be remembered.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Action</title>
          <page.no>117</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BLEYER</name>
    <name.id>25813</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This Labor government has a habit of approving big developments that communities are opposed to. Look at how this federal Labor government is refusing to put a moratorium on mega AI data centres until there are proper regulations in place. These are big developments that destroy our natural environment, adversely impact our tourism industry, and interfere with a person's right to live peacefully at home and in their community. So as this Labor government keeps approving big developments in the interests of big corporations who line their pockets with donations, the community is going to have to do more of what this federal Labor government isn't.</para>
<para>I know what it's like. There was a day where at my home, in my community, in what was then a $50-million-a year tourism industry, when a federal Labor government approved a big dirty, stinking pulp mill in my backyard. The community rose up and stopped that big development. So let me tell communities across Australia how we went about it to stop that dirty, stinking pulp mill and how we've gone about stopping other big developments that should never have been approved.</para>
<para>First, you must involve yourself in a community and political engagement campaign. Get the community together. You will not be the only one that has identified that our federal Labor government is doing something that's not in our interests and in the interests of the environment that we depend on. Organise a town hall meeting, call everyone together, organise for there to be appropriately qualified persons speaking at those community events and then keep the community organised. Engage politically. Speak to your elected representatives. They have been elected to make decisions that are in our best interests, and, when they're not doing so, we should let them know.</para>
<para>Second of three pillars to stop a big development that shouldn't proceed is litigation. When it came to the pulp mill, we challenged state and federal government approval decisions more so than any other project in the country. Often when a government makes a decision in the interests of a big corporation that lines its pockets, it's prone to make mistakes, as was my experience as a lawyer. So get legal advice. If there are grounds to run a case challenging a government decision then take the opportunity if you can.</para>
<para>Third, there's direct action. If that soil starts to turn, stand outside with a placard representing the position that you rightly hold if a big development has been approved that is in the wrong place and is not in the best interests of the community and our natural environment. So now, community, you know what you can do to do what the government isn't&#x2014;to stand up for your rights, to stand up for your backyards and to stand up for your natural environment.</para>
<para>But of course, this federal Labor government can instead choose to make decisions for people rather than profit. My message to the community is: if the day comes when you are fed up with a federal Labor government who is not making decisions that you think they should, the Greens are here to make decisions for the community before corporations. Join the movement.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Albanese Government</title>
          <page.no>118</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BLYTH</name>
    <name.id>315170</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Rome didn't just fall in one day. It was sold in instalments&#x2014;a little gold to buy peace, a few foreign soldiers to fill the ranks. Each deal made sense at the time and nobody thought that they were ending an empire. They thought they were being practical. They traded their freedom for convenience. You've probably heard of the bread-and-circuses quote from the Roman poet Juvenal. What few people are aware of is that Juvenal was lamenting a political state in which Roman people had become so rich and comfortable that they were unwilling to discuss or consider the trade-offs. They preferred the bread and circuses to the hard business of governing themselves.</para>
<para>When we consider convenience, there's a question every household and every small business can answer: what happens when you spend more than you earn year after year? And the simple answer is you go broke. Yet this government is doing exactly that and keeps telling us it's fine.</para>
<para>Now, let me be clear. I will always back a safety net. A decent society looks after the sick, the frail and the unlucky. And I'll never apologise for that. But a safety net was never meant to be a way of life. We stopped asking what it costs or who pays. For every $3 that Canberra spends, $1 goes to social security and welfare. In Britain the government pays more in interest than it spends on its armed forces. A nation that stood alone against tyranny in 1940 now pays its creditors more than its defenders.</para>
<para>Our kids are the ones who pay. A generation already locked out of housing is inheriting debt it never chose. Labor's answer to every problem seems to be a new payment, a new bailout, a new rebate or a new subsidy. And when you ask them who's paying, they go quiet. The Labor government don't have a single dollar that belongs to them. Every dollar they spend is taken from a hardworking Australian. Take the NDIS, a scheme we should all be proud of. It now costs more than $40 billion a year and is growing faster than the economy that pays for it.</para>
<para>My own side don't have an unblemished record, but we have proven what can be achieved. Just 20 years ago, the coalition paid off national debt completely. But more recently, during COVID, we showed less of that restraint we were known for. We all have to do better. Politicians didn't do this alone. We spend because voters ask us to and electorally punish those who suggest spending less.</para>
<para>Let me say something personal. I love this country and, like you, I feel it changing. I feel it slipping away. The Australia my children are growing up in is not the Australia I grew up in. My first mortgage was a mere $96,000. My eldest daughter now needs more than that for a deposit, and her real wages haven't kept pace with inflation. So the question isn't whether we can change course. It's whether we will, because it can be done, and it has been done before. It seems that Labor's answer to every problem is to try and spend their way out of it. But a nation cannot spend its way into lasting prosperity. Government must focus on defending our nation, upholding the rule of law, supporting decent health care and education, and providing the infrastructure our economy depends on. But beyond those responsibilities every government program, grant or agency should have to justify its existence. We must stop handing taxpayers' money to favoured industries, vested interests and activist organisations. Every dollar government spends is a dollar we have taken from a hardworking Australian, and every dollar wasted is a dollar that the taxpayer could have spent supporting their family or investing in business.</para>
<para>Changing this culture of dependency will not be an easy feat. And those who argue restraint will, of course, be called heartless. But the real cruelty is leaving our children a mountain of debt they never chose. There is nothing moral about borrowing money for our kids to repay because it leads to the greatest cruelty of all, which is allowing future generations to inherit a country less free and less prosperous than the one we inherited. Australia was not built by big government. It was built by Australians who took risks, worked hard, raised families and just got on with it. It's time now for government to do less so that the Australian people may do more.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 20 : 15</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>
