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  <session.header>
    <date>2024-11-25</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
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  <chamber.xscript>
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          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Monday, 25 November 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 10:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
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    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, marking the start of 16 days of activism against gender based violence. I know, for many years now, my friend and colleague in the other place Sharon Claydon, who is deeply committed to ending violence against women, has read out the names of women killed by violence in the previous year as recorded by Destroy the Joint, as has Senator Waters from this chamber. Ms Claydon is doing that again this year, and I encourage people to go and listen to her speech—a poignant reminder of just how many women's lives have been cut far too short. It's a distressingly long list of names, and the truth is we wouldn't have enough time if we were to add the list of all the women and children who have felt the impacts of violence in their lives.</para>
<para>Since 1989, when this data started to be collected, 1,710 women have been killed by their intimate partners, but we know that that number doesn't show us the whole picture—the too many women who die by suicide after years of violence and abuse; the children who grow up witnessing violence, fearful for their lives or for their mothers' lives, then so often experiencing the enduring impacts of this trauma; the missing and murdered First Nations women who so often don't get the same media coverage as other women across Australia; the women who experience brain injury as a result of gender based violence, which is a consequence that is terrifying and yet we know far too little about it; and the women that live in fear every day, scared to go home, when the person that professes to love them is the greatest threat to their life, being tracked, abused and threatened, all for taking the brave decision to leave a violent relationship, living with the emotional and physical scars of violence.</para>
<para>As Minister for Women, it's an honour to be entrusted with so many women's experiences, from women who talk to me when I'm out and about in communities across Australia, to women who write to me, to women who turn the most horrific experiences into action and advocacy and meet with me at parliament. I'm inspired by all of these women and their supporters, and I say to them that this government is committed to ending this violence. We all want change. For some it's personal; for everyone, though, it matters. We know ending violence requires action and investment. It's why, since coming to government, we have made record investment to end this violence</para>
<para>At every economic update, we've looked at ways to invest to support the National Plan to End Violence Against Women and Children and its bold but important ambition of a future free from violence.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge Minister Rishworth, Assistant Minister Eliot and Assistant Minister Thwaites for their leadership in driving action to support this ambition. We've invested $4 billion in this important task, in investments to prevent violence, to intervene where it happens and to respond and support victims-survivors to recover and heal. This is on top of the $3.9 billion for legal assistance announced following the National Cabinet's historic meeting into ending violence against women and children. These investments also include extra funding for housing and specific investments targeted at women escaping violence. There are also our significant investments in women's economic equality, including reforms to Parenting Payment Single so that women can access payments until their children are 14—a significant reform for so many mothers fleeing domestic violence and in need of economic stability.</para>
<para>It's not just about the dollars; it's also around legislative reform like paid family and domestic violence leave so that women don't have to choose between their job or their safety or improving the family law system so that it's safer, fairer and better responds to experiences of family violence. There is always more to do, and until all women and girls are safe, whether at home, online or in their communities, we cannot take our foot off the accelerator. So we press on, guided by our deep determination and optimism that we can achieve a community free from gender based violence.</para>
<para>On this day and every day, I think of the lives of women and girls across the country. I reiterate my commitment and the commitment of everyone across the Albanese government to an Australia free from gender based violence, because a safer and more equal Australia for women is a better country for all of us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition also acknowledges that today is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. It is held on 25 November each year. It signifies the 16 Days of Activism to end gender based violence across Australia. Addressing violence against women remains at the forefront of women's issues around the world and here at home, for as long as women are subject to gender based violence, there can be no genuine gender equality.</para>
<para>This year alone, more than 50 women have allegedly been murdered by a man. As of 16 November, that number was 56. That averages out to be more than one woman per week. But that statistic doesn't paint the full picture because, for every woman murdered, there have been so many more who have lived through violent situations or are currently living through them.</para>
<para>When I delivered this speech last year, I named some of the women whose stories have stuck with me. I hoped that this year would be different, that by some miracle we wouldn't need to mention them. Unfortunately, I was wrong. I still think of Hannah Clarke, Shirley Kidd and Kylie Griffiths. Now I also think of Nikkita Azzopardi, the 35-year-old from South Morang in Victoria. I think of Hannah McGuire, the 23-year-old from Ballarat, and Lilie James, the 21-year-old from Sydney. Unfortunately, there are many more names across our country.</para>
<para>Too many women have been killed as a result of violence, and many more have been assaulted. The numbers are going in the wrong direction, and immediate action is required. These names remind us that, despite our progress as a society, there is still so much more to be done. Family and domestic violence is a plague, and improving the safety of women and girls is above politics. The data shows the urgent need. Reported FDV incidents have risen by 20 per cent nationwide. In my home state, police are called to a family violence incident every five minutes. In the 12 months to November 2024, there were 99,000 family violence reports. Western Australia is forecast to have its highest number ever of family and domestic violence offences on record this year and has a restraining order breached every 44 minutes.</para>
<para>We can and must do better in the interest of the future of all women and all children. We know that the health of Australian women and girls is absolutely critical to their overall wellbeing and ability to fully participate in society. Women should feel safe at home, and when matters of domestic violence arise, they should feel safe and supported in their decision-making, including when leaving a violent relationship. We must ensure policies are announced, implemented and delivered to keep our women and children safe, which requires all levels of government to continue to work together. From bail laws to federally funded support programs, the policy levers span across Commonwealth and state lines.</para>
<para>Ending violence against women and children was a key priority for the coalition government, and in the 2021-22 Women's Budget Statement we invested $1.1 billion to address violence against women and children. This brought the coalition's total investment in family and domestic violence to more than $2 billion since 2013. We supported programs that focused on: prevention; early intervention; response and recovery; funding initiatives like Our Watch, Stop it at the Start, and the Respectful Relationships education online platform; expanding DV alert training; the Escaping Violence payment that was championed by my colleague Senator Ruston; maintaining protection against cross-examinations by family violence perpetrators; and many more vital programs. The coalition will continue in its work with government and the sector to combat the scourge and help women and children escape the violence they are facing. We will demand greater action and hold the government to account for their commitments. The front-line family and domestic violence sector need action, and for government to deliver on the promises that have been made. Australians deserve better and we must do better.</para>
<para>The International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women is an important day to recognise. We recognise that the Albanese government promised 500 front-line workers at the 2022 election, and 352 by 30 June 2024, but it has delivered only 336 by 31 October. More needs to be done. This day allows us to shine a light on the issues that millions of women face daily in Australia and around the world. In a country like ours, we can and must do better to tackle violence against women. The coalition, whether in government or in opposition, will work with all parties and parliamentarians to do better against this scourge.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is the first day of the global 16 Days of Activism against Gender-Based Violence, and I'm really proud that our parliament is honouring that day and that we'll hear some powerful speeches across the chamber today. What saddens me is that there are barely any blokes in this chamber and there aren't many on the speakers' list, either. We know this is a problem for men to fix. We know that 95 per cent of perpetrators are men. What a real shame that we don't see more engagement on this issue from the parliamentarians who are not with us in the chamber this morning. We know that sexism and gender equality and rigid gender stereotypes are driving the rates of violence against women, and we know that we are all part of changing those cultural and behavioural attitudes, and that needs men, too. So, where are they?</para>
<para>Violence against women is at epidemic proportions globally, and here in Australia. Every week in Australia women and children suffer at the hands of men, and this year more than one woman a week has been killed, mostly by men's violence. According to the volunteer organisation Counting Dead Women, 66 women have been killed so far this year. Now, this number is not a record that's kept by government—as it should be—but by volunteer organisations. I salute their dedication, but this figure should be collected and promoted by government, just like the road toll is, to serve to increase awareness and to have that preventive effect. I've asked for that for years and will continue to call for that.</para>
<para>The rate of violence is getting worse. It used to be one woman a week, but it's only November and we're already at 66 killed this year. Men's violence against women is an epidemic—it's a national crisis—and we have a collective responsibility to act. We need to do that deep prevention work, and that is all of us. We need fully funded front-line services, including crisis housing and long-term affordable housing, so that everyone who reaches out for help is able to get it. We acknowledge that there have been some funding improvements under the current government, and that's very welcome, but it's still a rate where those organisations are having to turn women and children away when they reach out for help, because they don't have the money to help everyone. We should cancel all of the submarines, but at the very least we should cancel one of them and fully fund front-line response services so that women and children can be saved and can live and get free from violence.</para>
<para>We need to keep women in their homes and oust the perpetrators of violence, not the survivors, where it's safe for them to stay at home.</para>
<para>We need to stop the victim blaming and shift the emphasis to where it belongs. We need to fund healing and recovery. There's only one centre that does that wraparound trauma support nationally. That should be fixed. Safety is a fundamental human right, but the reality is that most women in Australia are not safe. They are not safe in their homes, their workplaces or their communities. This must change, and it requires a commitment from every single one of us. We must also confront the uncomfortable truths that First Nations women, migrant women and women with disabilities experience disproportionately higher rates of violence and often face systemic barriers to support. There have been 12 First Nations women killed just since June. Eight of those were in the Northern Territory. Their lives and their names matter, and yet there was barely any media coverage of those murders.</para>
<para>This is all the more reason why the government must urgently respond to the recommendations from the Senate inquiry into missing and murdered First Nations women and children, which my colleague instigated. The government is already late in responding to it. Sexual violence is increasing at an alarming rate, and workplace harassment remains pervasive. These realities demand that we all—governments, communities, workplaces and individuals—do everything in our power to change the systemic culture of gendered violence to one that prioritises women's safety.</para>
<para>Successive Australian governments have underfunded frontline services that could save lives. And, as I mentioned, while this government has made some progress, neither of the two big parties has ever committed to fully funding frontline services to help everyone who seeks help. The Greens are committed to doing that and to ensuring that survivors receive the resources and the support they need. We also urge continued investment in perpetrator accountability programs and long- and short-term strategies that address the root cause of violence. Violence is not inevitable. It is preventable, but prevention requires all of us. As I've done for years, I will be reading out the names of women and children killed by violence. I'll flag that, in the matter of public urgency I'll be bringing to the chamber later today, that's what I'll be using my time to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very honoured to represent the Nationals on this significant issue. The Nationals acknowledge the devastation caused by domestic violence, and we also acknowledge, as Senator Waters said, the need for men to be part of the solution. That is why our shadow assistant minister for the prevention of family violence, the former police officer and police prosecutor, Pat Conaghan, is very, very dedicated to this significant issue.</para>
<para>Domestic violence does not discriminate. It is not limited to one particular ethnicity, religious sector or income level. It is not limited to physical violence. It can take the form of mental abuse and coercive control, and it is not limited to geography. In fact, domestic violence is more prevalent in rural, regional and remote areas than in urban Australia. One of the most common things I hear from people who've never known domestic abuse or a controlling relationship is, 'Why don't they just leave?' Oh, if only it were so simple. The answer is often that they can't. They may have no financial independence. They may have no support networks. In regional areas, they may be isolated, and there may be nowhere to go. Just last week, it was reported that the Young Crisis Accommodation Centre in southern New South Wales was handing out tents because there was no room at the inn, so to speak. In fact, in most New South Wales regional shelters, they're operating at or above capacity. Why is domestic violence more prevalent in regional areas? Some published literature attributes this to the higher Indigenous population, but that is not true. Data from New South Wales, for example, shows that the top 10 localities for domestic violence incidents include some predominantly white agricultural areas.</para>
<para>There is still stigma around domestic violence, particularly in regional areas. When everyone knows everyone else's business, the less said about domestic violence the better. But that is not true. The solution to countering domestic violence is not a cure; it is prevention.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, our current federal budget is heavily skewed towards the three Rs—response, recovery and research—for domestic violence. That gets 83 per cent of the budget, where preventative measures and intervention measures are just 17 per cent of the budget. Men's support and behavioural change services get less than one per cent of the budget. We need to ensure that our community is aware of the warning signs and is prepared to call out problem behaviour. We need to start addressing it young. We need to educate our young men and women on what domestic abuse looks like and why it is not acceptable.</para>
<para>I get my free-to-air television through the VAST network with Imparja Television services. I have to acknowledge their powerful set of ads that show a young girl playing an absolute ripper of an AFL game with her boyfriend watching on. There are two versions of the ad. In one, his disparaging comments about her game go unchecked, and it ends with a clearly toxic relationship. In the other, his mates tell him it's not appropriate. He rethinks what he's just said, and everyone has a really good day. That's what needs to happen. It may be oversimplified for a short television ad, but wouldn't it be good if sometimes it were that simple? If you don't call it out, you won't address it. If we don't talk about it and raise awareness, we won't prevent it. It was once said to me that the first punch is the hardest because once that has happened, a taboo has been broken. We need to discuss and address domestic violence before that first punch is thrown.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women. I'm very supportive of the Senate acknowledging this day, but I'm sad that we even need to acknowledge it at all. Yet here we are. As much as this makes me angry and sad, I know we must talk about domestic and family violence—that is, violence against women, children and partners—because sweeping violence under the carpet allows a violent culture to continue. The United Nations tells us that violence against women and girls goes unreported in so many cases because of fear, stigma and shame. As hard as it is to talk about violence, the more we do it, the more that stigma is reduced.</para>
<para>Violence against women and girls can be physical, sexual and psychological. It's more than the images our minds replay when we think about family and domestic violence. Earlier this year I spent valuable time with a beautiful group of women in Hobart who are part of the Be Hers mentoring program. Be Hers runs events and online campaigns to raise awareness about human trafficking. When I spoke with these women from Be Hers, they shared horrific stories about how they and their children had been subjected to violence. It was really confronting to hear, but I was so pleased to see that they had survived and were using their experiences to fight for the freedom of vulnerable women and children being trafficked.</para>
<para>These and other violent acts are happening around us daily. Crime statistics for Tasmania make sobering reading. In 2022-23 Tasmania Police recorded 3,906 assaults, a number that is 14 per cent higher than the year before and an increase on the previous five-year average. Violence is on the rise in my state. Tassie's police stats also show that, in 74 per cent of cases, the person committing the assault was known to the victim and that women were the victims in just over half—54 per cent of cases. These women are more than numbers in a crime report. They're your neighbour, your friend, you sister or even you. It's so important that victims of gender based violence know they are supported and know where to go to get the help. They need to stay out of danger.</para>
<para>One of the most important ways to help victims-survivors of domestic and family violence is to properly fund community legal services and legal aid. In the last round of estimates, I asked about funding for legal services in Tasmania to see how my state's funding stacked up after the Australian government announced $3.9 billion in funding over five years as part of the new National Access to Justice Partnership.</para>
<para>When the case management pathway for the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia was introduced, as part of this partnership, it came with additional funding, known as costs consequences. Costs consequences funding was allocated to legal services to account for the additional legal assistance costs that came with the new system, which made sense, considering the increased workload, but that funding has stopped. It wouldn't be so bad if demand for family law services had dropped, but demand hasn't dropped at all. Tasmania Legal Aid has had no choice but to reduce frontline services, and that means Tasmanians experiencing family and domestic violence will have to wait longer for legal services, if they can access these important services at all.</para>
<para>Funding for legal services is only part of the solution to eliminating violence against women. We need action to help those committing violence, too. There are programs to change the behaviour of those who use violence, including the Men's Referral Service, which provides telephone counselling, information and referrals for men in Victoria, New South Wales and Tassie. Men's Referral Service also helps people who want to change the abusive behaviour of their male partners or family members, all with the aim of reducing the risk of violent behaviour. We haven't collected enough data on these programs, so, as well as making sure we are working to change violent behaviour, we must evaluate how effective they are. We need to know what works to change violent behaviour and what doesn't.</para>
<para>The culture and behaviour around domestic and family violence needs to shift. Most of all, we need to keep this conversation going. Everyone has to take responsibility for fixing this crisis, because everyone has a right to feel safe and live free from violence. Australia needs behavioural and cultural change around violence towards women and other victims-survivors. This will happen when those who are escaping violence and those who are committing violence can access the support they need when they need it. When we see these changes, we'll know we're getting somewhere. It has to happen sooner rather than later. Eliminating family and domestic violence is a priority every day, not just today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for the opportunity to speak on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. The level of men's violence against women in Australia this year is a national crisis. Research by Counting Dead Women and Destroy the Joint shows 64 women were murdered last year. We've already surpassed that number this year, with 66 women murdered.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge the work of advocates standing out on the front lawn of parliament to honour these women's lives. On their behalf, I want to restate a plea for change, for a true step up in funding for frontline services. I acknowledge and commend the increased investment from the Labor government, but it clearly has to go further. We need to see the Commonwealth government and state and territory governments step up when it comes to funding, and the way that we fund, frontline service providers. I hear too often about the short-term funding cycles which mean it's hard to retain staff and hard to plan for the future. This is unacceptable and inexcusable, given the work that these organisations do and the community sentiment around this. Australians want elected representatives to be stepping up and doing all we can. We need to see a magnitude of investment that will start to genuinely turn the tide, to bring the number of murdered women down, rather than see it continue to go up. That's one of the things that we can do here in this place to make a difference.</para>
<para>We can fund frontline service organisations and we can ensure that there's funding for men's behaviour change programs. I've spoken to many organisations that would love to do more in this space—to start working with more men, particularly young men, on their attitudes towards women, and to draw young people, particularly young men, into the conversation, not in a polarising way that makes them feel they're not heard but in a way that shows them how in our culture they are missing out in not being able to connect with, and find ways to regulate, their feelings and emotions.</para>
<para>State and territory governments also need to step up. We can't have the situation where the Commonwealth tips in money and states and territories say: 'You beauty! We'll cut back on ours.' This is going to take every level of government stepping up, and this is well worth the Senate spending more time on.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, on International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, I want to call out this government for actively fuelling and funding the culture of violence against women, girls, queers, my sistergirls and brotherboys. I want to start with the words of Dr Amy McQuire, a proud Darumbal and South Sea Islander woman, who writes about the First Nations femicide in this country:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Violence is one of the key stories told of Aboriginal communities, and yet Aboriginal women are silenced in these conversations, seen as without agency or as bodies on which acts of violence are perpetrated. In this way, the active resistances of Aboriginal women … are disappeared. To speak is to speak an end to an unsafe space in which these violences are continually weaponised against whole communities, leading to unsafe policy outcomes like more police, more jailing and draconian racist policy responses … which only reproduce the violence, leading to further pain, wounding and harm.</para></quote>
<para>This year Sherele Moody Femicide Watch, which does incredible work tracking the number of murders of women in this country, found that 86 women had been killed. They're just the ones we know of. This violence is no accident and it is far from random. It is deeply embedded in how this government and society, as an extension, operate—a continuation of the violent processes of colonisation, which have never ended. Violence is their tool to keep people in fear, to maintain control and to protect wealth and power.</para>
<para>How can we talk about ending violence against women when this government provides diplomatic, financial and military support to those who bomb, rape and pillage the homes of families overseas, all the while locking up First Nations mothers and children here at home—even handcuffing them while they're giving birth? This is a government that thrives on manufacturing hate and division. It creates enemies and profits from wars, shaping its economy to benefit from human suffering.</para>
<para>Governments that bomb villages in the Middle East and call it liberation have no right to preach about safety in our homes. Research from many, including Joanna Bourke, highlights how the violence we export overseas, whether through wars or imperial domination, inevitably comes home, embedding itself into our culture, shaping institutions and perpetrating harm within our own communities. Like Malcolm X says, that violence will come home to roost. Violence at home fuels violence abroad and vice versa.</para>
<para>The media plays a powerful role in sustaining a culture of violence through selective reporting, sensationalism and biased narratives. It shapes public opinion to dehumanise victims while protecting those in power. It sounds familiar, doesn't it? It allows governments to justify bigger police budgets, more surveillance and more prisons. We're seeing a move towards this in a bill being introduced this week, which will crack down further on those in immigration detention.</para>
<para>All of this happens under a pretence that violence is necessary to bring peace, security and stability, while refusing to acknowledge that it is governments who have always perpetrated chaos and destruction. It's really about control. Those same tools are turned back on us, especially black and brown women. To the politicians who are funding war crimes, who wring their hands over violent porn while defunding public housing, leaving women and children with nowhere to escape: your hypocrisy is violent. To those who pass laws blaming sex workers for society's ills, while ignoring the gendered, racialised and economic violence that governs our lives: you are the problem.</para>
<para>True safety comes from liberation, not domination. It means dismantling the systems that keep us in fear—the endless war machine, the cages called prisons and the unchecked power of police. It means listening to First Nations women, to migrant women, to trans women, to sex workers—to all whose lives and labour erased are exploited. It means housing is a right and health care is a right.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There have been more than 60 women killed in violence this year. We know that even more women live with near-death experiences every single day. Today's findings, expected to be handed down in the Northern Territory coroner's inquiry into the deaths of four Aboriginal women, will no doubt highlight many issues. It will sadly tell us what we already know. Each of those four women died at the hands of partners who were known to police and had a history of violence. In other words, those tragedies could have been prevented. Sadly, people who love them stayed silent, felt hopeless and helpless or didn't even know it was happening. This means most cases of family and domestic violence go unreported.</para>
<para>As we mark White Ribbon Day and the start of 16 Days of Activism against gender based violence on the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, the severity of family and domestic violence in Australia cannot be underestimated or understated. Every four minutes in Australia, a call is made to police for help. In some parts of the nation, a restraining order is breached every 44 minutes. The numbers are worse everywhere. The Northern Territory has one of the worst rates of family and domestic violence. Eight Territory women have allegedly been killed at the hands of their partners since 1 June—four in the Big Rivers region around Katherine.</para>
<para>Western Australia is on track for 2024 to be the worst year for family and domestic violence offences on record, Senator Cash. In my home state of South Australia, police data shows a 15 per cent increase in family and domestic violence offences in the year to August. Caught in this growing epidemic are children who will carry the scars for a lifetime. Reduced social skills, poor school performance, impaired language ability, a higher likelihood of criminal offending and negative physical and mental health outcomes are among the many outcomes for children who experience any type of neglect or abuse.</para>
<para>Family violence is the most common contributor to children entering the child protection system. It affected more than half of the 45,000-plus children in out-of-home care on 30 June last year. They are all too often the forgotten voice in the family and domestic violence response. For the taxpayer, out-of-home care is a heavy burden, with the cost of residential care up to $1.1 million per child per year. This government's so-called independent review of the removal of the cashless debit card did not give a single voice to a child about what has happened to them since the card was removed. In 2015-16, it was estimated the cost was two per cent of the national GDP. In 2024 terms, that's an estimated $32 billion a year lost to family and domestic violence. However, the issue is not isolated to one state or one territory.</para>
<para>Let's start with the countless hours I've spent in this place calling out the failed rollout of the 500-worker initiative. The government's election promise was for 352 workers on the ground by 30 June. At 31 October, there were just 336—far short of the 500 promised as part of that election commitment. Crucial funding the sector badly needs is now being delayed until after the federal election, probably to protect Labor's bottom line. Frontline services want help now, not from 1 July. Community legal services want help now so that they can stop turning away 1,000 people per day. The sector knows where the money is needed, the sector knows how to use the money for better outcomes and the sector knows they need the money. Prevention must be given greater focus, and the solution must, of course, include men. State and territory governments must step up instead of stepping back and expecting the federal government to do the work.</para>
<para>The 16 Days of Activism should spark conversations within communities, around dining tables, on social media and in the workplace. I urge the government to act on its rapid review with rapid action in finalising its federal funding agreements and getting money to services that need it now, not after the next federal election. We are on a unity ticket about responding to violence, but that's not at the expense of calling out inaction, doubletalk, and, of course, underdelivery by the Albanese Labor government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is from Full Stop Australia's CEO, Karen Bevan, in the last number of days:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We know that for every woman who has been murdered, there are many, many more women who today, tomorrow and yesterday, who were living in situations where they were afraid, where they were subject to violence, where they were scared for their children, and where their children were scared.</para></quote>
<para>The 16 Days of Activism, uniting for a future free from violence, is a critical time for us to think and rethink about our responsibility as both a community and a parliament. Family and domestic violence affects people of every age, from every cultural background and with different jobs and levels of education or income—people living in different areas and leading very different lives. It destroys lives, and, of course, one life lost is one life way too many. This has to come to an end.</para>
<para>Just this week, we heard the terrible story of 19-year-old Isla Bell murdered in Melbourne. I pass on my sincerest condolences to her family and the community. As we know, even from discussions with senators on this very important day, there is no silver bullet to fix the societal problems. Amanda Rishworth said that the 2024 theme 'Every 10 Minutes, a Woman is Killed. #NoExcuse. UNiTE to End Violence against Women' is an important reminder that ending gender based violence is the responsibility of all Australians:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A whole of society response is needed and ending gender-based violence requires genuine, ongoing effort from everyone, everywhere.</para></quote>
<para>The challenges for the entire community are critical. I recall, from my previous life as a union official, representing 97 per cent male dominated industries; going to employers and negotiating some of the first White Ribbon gender based violence agreements within workplaces; finding largely, again, male employers who had an open mind to those discussions; and having people talk through the necessity that all of their workplace be safe and secure for everybody's family life and personal life.</para>
<para>It is important that all of us take a deep responsibility about the change that's necessary. Part of that deep responsibility also sits with government. I think we should certainly clear the air, because it is important to make sure all Australians are aware that there is substantial work that's being done in this space. Whilst there's more work that needs to be done, we've put $4.4 billion of new funding on the table to respond to the government initiated Rapid Review of Prevention Approaches. That includes commitments that were reached at two separate National Cabinet meetings on gender based violence, including government investments of $3.9 billion in support for frontline legal assistance services. The federal government is also investing $351 million over five years for a five-year national partnership agreement, and this will be matched by additional funding from the states and territories. As part of that commitment to the community—and to make sure that people know this is an important issue that all of us are putting our mind and substantial energy to—in addition to those billions of dollars, we've also allocated $169 million in targeted initiatives to support the national plan and $1 billion, through the National Housing Infrastructure Facility, for housing for women and children impacted by violence.</para>
<para>I also want to say there's an obligation for us all, especially men, to take responsibility for our actions and to hold our mates and community to a higher standard.</para>
<para>I know that many men, as I've mentioned before, in male dominated workplaces are taking on that responsibility. I give credit to those workers and credit to those employers for taking a more thoughtful and appropriate approach to make sure it's a societal response in workplaces and across the community. But we need changes and further changes to attitudes. Young men and boys are getting fed misogynistic views through algorithms on social media, and this needs to be addressed through a regulatory response. We also need to support parents to start a conversation with their teenage children. I'd also say to call 1800RESPECT—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Sheldon. That concludes the time the chamber has for these statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>8</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>8</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>8</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government continues to reiterate its view that it cannot agree with the assertions made in this motion. We do, however, acknowledge the interest in the chamber in continuing to reform the NDIS to get it back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians. The government has also acknowledged the support from the opposition for working together with the government to this end and for voting in support of the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, which passed the parliament on 22 August 2024. The NDIS bill received royal assent on 5 September 2024 and commenced on 3 October 2024.</para>
<para>On 8 February 2024, the government tabled the final report of the Independent Review into the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which was publicly released on 7 December 2023. In producing this report, the independent NDIS review panel travelled to every state and territory, including regional and remote communities. It heard directly from more than 10,000 Australians, worked with disability organisations to reach out and listen to more than 1,000 people with disability and their families, recorded more than 2,000 personal stories and received almost 4,000 submissions. The review delivered 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to respond to its terms of reference. In delivering its recommendations, the review provided exhaustive analysis and proposals to improve the operation, effectiveness and sustainability of the NDIS. The independent NDIS review panel has said its reforms can improve the scheme and meet National Cabinet's annual growth target of no more than eight per cent growth by 1 July 2026.</para>
<para>The NDIS bill was the first legislative step by this government to ensuring its annual growth target is achieved. Following passage of the NDIS bill, discussions will continue with senators across this chamber as well as with members in the other place to address questions about the government's NDIS reform agenda that it is pursuing together with the disability community. We look forward to continuing to work with senators in this place to get the NDIS back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians.</para>
<para>In relation to the order being discussed, the government have previously outlined that we have claimed public interest immunity over the requested documents, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. The Minister representing the Treasurer has already tabled key documents for the benefit of the Senate, in addition to the aforementioned review.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the explanation.</para></quote>
<para>Disabled people and our families are struggling so much right now. The cost-of-living crisis is hitting so hard, making life more difficult and adding so much pressure. Every day brings another impossible choice between food and making the payments demanded to keep a roof over our heads, between medical bills and medicine, all while living or trying to live on a disability support pension or a carer's payment that was nowhere near enough before this crisis.</para>
<para>And now we are having to add another item to that list of impossible choices—the disability supports, the essential services that we or our children need to get about in the world, to communicate, to connect with friends and to get a job. We have to add that to the list and try to figure out how to pay for it, how to make it stretch a bit further, because this Labor government has cut so much from our NDIS.</para>
<para>This Labor government is kicking so many disabled people—so many disabled kids, particularly—off the NDIS. Why are they doing it? Why is Labor doing it? Because the government got in a room with premiers and chief ministers and made a secret deal to cut our NDIS and to kick people off. The Greens, on behalf of the community, are continuing to demand that the government be honest with the community and release the documents related to that decision. For over a year, we have been trying to get those answers, demanding that honesty. Today, again the government refuses to be honest. It refuses to own up to what it agreed and continues the secrecy—a pattern of secrecy, a pattern of forcing decisions that should be made in the public space into secret spaces that is, to this day, a feature of disability legislation and policy made in this place.</para>
<para>We have a document revealed to the Senate, finally made public, detailing the hundreds of confidentiality agreements that are demanded by this Labor government of disabled people and our advocates and organisations before we are able to consult on policy or legislation. The disability community have a principle: 'Nothing about us without us.' Well, when it comes to this Labor government and any policy about us, the principle Labor applies is: 'Everything about you, and you can only even get a word in if you sign this confidentiality agreement.' This binds our advocates and our organisations to their own impossible choice between getting a look in at all at what the government might be planning, in the hope that potentially somebody might see sense, and actually being able to consult with the community and get the views of their members.</para>
<para>This is totally inappropriate and a complete indictment and shame upon this Labor government. The secrecy, the confidentiality, the non-disclosure agreements—this is the very opposite of what you promised at the last election. Labor said that they would deliver transparency, honesty and integrity and no cuts to our NDIS, and you've backflipped on all of them. You've joined with the Liberals to cut our NDIS over $14.4 billion in the last budget alone, and you continue to demand silence from disability advocates. Shame.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Shame indeed on those opposite, not only for the lack of transparency, for the hiding of data and for the flouting of the order from this place to provide the most basic level of visibility but also because the minister, week after week, keeps coming out and saying, 'We've consulted all of these people,' but, as Senator Steele-John said, you have not heard a thing. Not only have you introduced and passed NDIS legislation, but you haven't even reported or provided a government response to that great inquiry, and yet here you still trumpet that it is a public interest immunity claim.</para>
<para>The only reason it would prejudice Commonwealth-state relationships is that you have entered into this legislation, you've palmed off a whole series of foundational supports—you've carved them out of the federal budget—but the states and territories have agreed to not one single cent of that expenditure. The fraud continues on and on.</para>
<para>The NDIS annual financial sustainability report was due shortly after the end of the financial year, which is over five months ago now, and those opposite are still hiding the AFSR. Why are they doing that? They are doing that because it would expose the financial fraud those opposite have now inflicted upon not only the 650,000 participants and their families but the Australian taxpayer. They have produced the first-quarter report for this year, but of course it was after estimates—and no wonder, because what the quarterly report shows, as the AFSR will when it comes out, no doubt, is the full extent of their financial fraud.</para>
<para>What do we know from the first quarterly report? First of all, they've carved $60 billion worth of savings over 10 years out of the scheme, and, to date, they've hidden every single bit of financial analysis that would enable this place and Senate estimates to scrutinise where those savings are coming from. What the first quarterly report shows is that not only are they not going to make those savings—we don't know where they're coming from—but, in the first quarter of this year, guess what? Even with all the cuts, the reviews, blocking people from entering the scheme, shunting people out of the scheme and sending people to the AAT in record numbers, the scheme is still going up above that forecast in the budget, which is exactly what those on this side of the chamber have said it would do for years now, since Bill Shorten became minister. So the total payment level is on track to exceed the 2024 total payments, which highlights that, even with all of the cuts and the broken promises, they still cannot manage the scheme in accordance with the budget.</para>
<para>Here are the facts they didn't want us to know at estimates. Average and median payments per participant have continued to increase by 7.6 per cent and 4.2 per cent, respectively, over the past two years—completely the opposite of what those opposite promised. Somehow they were magically going to cut the scheme, and they've taken the money out of the budget, but guess what? They are going to keep supplementing the scheme.</para>
<para>Average plan budgets have also increased. This is the second driver of cost in the scheme. The first is participant numbers and average payments per participant. Average plan budgets have increased over time for all participants by 5.5 per cent per annum over two years, and 9.4 per cent if you look at the special independent living, SIL, arrangements. But plan inflation also continues to rise, with an annualised plan inflation level now of 12.8 per cent, which has increased from 10.1 per cent from June this year. So not only can they not manage the scheme—scheme costs going up and administration costs are going up—but the scheme is blowing out, even with all of the cuts those opposite have made.</para>
<para>One of the things they championed so much—hand on heart, they said, 'We are going to reduce the number of cases down at the AAT. We are going to be more generous. There will be no cuts.' Well, that is simply not true. Again in the first quarter, there were over 50,000 requests for participant plan reviews, 4,000 per week. Most concerningly, plan reassessments, which can be initiated by the NDIA, increased from 40,000 to 55,000. So, despite the claim they would fix this scheme—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Reynolds. Senator Hughes.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Happy anniversary to all of us; we've been doing 'NDIS Monday' every Monday all year. This is getting out of control. You would think over the entire parliamentary year we might have eventually got some information—but no. Here we are again, on the last Monday of the year, possibly the last Monday of this parliament—we don't know; it could it be the last Monday of this parliament—and there's still no information.</para>
<para>What worries and concerns me, and what people don't seem to remember, is that when the NDIS was set up it was, at its core, an insurance scheme. That means there was to be investment early to save costs later. That is a fundamental principle of the scheme. But the greatest increases, when you look at where they are coming from, are coming from the supported independent living side of the scheme—that is, where people live in group homes. They cannot live independently, so they live in a supported environment. We're seeing the number of supported independent living participants consistently increase. At the other end of the scale, the end of the scale where we should be having an impact, where we should be changing the trajectory of the lives of people with a disability to ensure their independence, we are seeing the government ignore that concept. They've created a list of approved and non-approved supports. The problem is that they've been so arbitrary they've failed to understand different elements of different supports.</para>
<para>Some of these things, on the top line, I personally, as the parent of a child with autism, don't buy into. We have equine therapy. Do I think putting a kid on a horse is going to cure autism? No, I do not. It is absolutely ridiculous that some people have been advocating equine therapy as some sort of cure for children with autism. But what has been caught up in the ban on equine therapy is services like Riding for the Disabled. They are a charitable organisation who have been around for a long time, but they are now finding it increasingly difficult to survive—in fact, they may not survive—because equine therapy is no longer on the list of approved supports.</para>
<para>Riding for the Disabled is about much, much more than just putting a kid on a horse. These are kids for whom, by the very nature of their autism, working together in groups and being part of a team doesn't come naturally; in fact, it's very difficult for a lot of these children. At Riding for the Disabled they get in with other children and they not only do work on the horse but do work around the horses. They help with feeding, with the stables, with the courses that are put up, with washing the horses; they take instruction; they work collaboratively. All of these are the soft skills that boost the development of a child. It may seem funny to hear about a child learning to take instruction: how could that be part of it? It's part of everyone's life. Everyone has to take instruction, and when you've got a child with autism, who finds that challenging, this is a way you can start to introduce that skill.</para>
<para>Then there's music therapy. When my son was diagnosed, we had OT that gave parents a set of headphones with music that, if you played it at a particular pitch, would somehow or other alleviate autism. Rubbish! Complete and utter rubbish! Music therapy is no longer on the list of supports. But what does music therapy do? It puts children in a group situation. They learn turn-taking; they learn to participate in group activity. But, on top of the skills that the child is developing, it helps the parents of that child with a disability, particularly if you've never had disability in your family, if it's a new experience to you. It's very isolating for families. Families get a chance to meet other parents of children with a parallel disability—perhaps children who normally struggle to find friends, who are excluded from activities—to find some form of social network.</para>
<para>Because we don't know what this government is doing—we don't know what foundational reports states are going to provide—but all of these lists of approved and non-approved supports are already in action, we have children missing out on a lot of activities. That will not aid their development and potentially puts them on a trajectory to supported independent living, not independence.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>11</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>11</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>11</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report of the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee on the provisions of the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, together with the accompanying documents, and I seek leave to move a motion relating to the recommendation in the report.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate adopt the recommendation in the report, and that the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 be withdrawn and immediately discharged from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this motion, concerning the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, as the Minister representing the Minister for Communications. The way Australians and, indeed, the world consumes information is changing. More and more, we access information online and we access it through social media platforms. To call this a revolution is actually to understate it; this is a profound change in the way we work and our world works. Governments have a responsibility to respond both to the opportunities and the challenges presented by this change.</para>
<para>There are benefits that arise from these changes, but there are challenges too: ensuring equality of digital access for the information online that people want; the exposure of some of the most vulnerable people in our community to scams and exploitation; the use of platforms to bully and harass; young people's access to a range of inappropriate and sometimes addictive material; how best to fund the news that is the pillar of our democratic arrangements; and the spread of misinformation and disinformation that is often deliberately designed to disrupt our democracy and to damage social cohesion.</para>
<para>The responsibility to deal with all these challenges does not just lie with the executive; the responsibility to deal with these challenges lies with this parliament. To quote the minister in a speech she gave a few weeks ago:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For policy makers to take an elevated view of how technology can shape our future for the better, we need to deal with the excesses of social media, and other emerging technologies like AI, otherwise, they will continue to disproportionately dominate public debate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We must get to a place where public trust in technology and innovation are in a virtuous circle.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I am confident in our ability to do this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The truth is there is no consensus on the governance of digital platforms and how to keep children safe and healthy in the digital age.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Yes, the task of change is hard and the road is not straight—but what is clear is that doing nothing is not an option.</para></quote>
<para>Those are the minister's words.</para>
<para>The Albanese government's approach is not to pretend this isn't happening or to pretend, as others do, that the answers to these challenges are simple. We have sought to work with the community, stakeholders, media old and new, and the parliament to deal with this, to devise solutions that mitigate harms while allowing every Australian to enjoy the benefits. The community is rightly concerned. The community is looking to all of us for solutions, and our government is putting forward solutions: passing legislation to create new penalties for privacy violations like doxxing and creating and distributing deepfake pornography; quadrupling base funding for the eSafety Commissioner; backing in the News Media Bargaining Code; working to combat scams; and seeking to legislate age limits on access to social media. And we intend to complement this by establishing a digital duty of care.</para>
<para>As everyone in this place knows, we have also sought to regulate the spread of seriously harmful misinformation and disinformation. The first role, the first responsibility, of this parliament should be to make laws that keep Australia safe, and the combating misinformation and disinformation bill was an opportunity for the parliament to do this. Doing nothing in the face of growing problems of mis and disinformation means doing nothing about the concerns of 80 per cent of Australians and a number of statutory agencies. Our regulators and agencies, who are at the front line when it comes to keeping us safe, have identified the threat posed by misinformation and disinformation; the ACCC, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, the AEC, ASIO and NEMA have all spoken about this. We're talking about content that is verifiably false, misleading or deceptive, that is amplified by algorithms and that can cause serious harm—including content spread by malicious actors via bots and troll farms.</para>
<para>Failure to support this bill means this bill will not be legislated, and it means that we will not be in a position to help keep Australians safe with laws that address 21st-century challenges that we and other democracies face. Our best chance for finding good answers to the questions that confront our nation is in our collective capacity to have a well-informed and inclusive public discussion. The spread of serious disinformation in digital public squares often by people who intend to sew discord and distrust makes that task all the more difficult. And it's incumbent on democracies to grapple with these challenges, to do so in a way that puts citizens first. Misinformation and disinformation are an evolving threat. No single action is a perfect solution, but we must continue to improve safeguards to ensure that digital platforms offer better protections for Australians. These are challenging questions. They are not assisted by three-word slogans or simplistic responses to complex problems. They are not assisted by inconsistent approaches, with some in this place supporting certain regulatory tools in some contexts and bitterly opposing them in others, and they are not assisted by cynically ramping up fear before backflipping on a previous commitment. The coalition committed to legislating safeguards when they were in government, but they have since chosen another path. The Australian Greens don't want self-regulation, but that is exactly what they get by opposing this bill. It is another example in the growing list of examples where the Greens would rather vote with the coalition than work with Labor to advance reform on an issue that they say is important.</para>
<para>Some senators thought this bill went too far; others thought it did not go far enough. But it's clear that the bill as introduced—on this case, the Senate was not prepared to find common ground or support it as a step in the right direction when it comes to holding big tech to account. It's for that reason that the government does not seek to proceed with the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024. The government invites all parliamentarians to work with us on other proposals, to strengthen democratic institutions, to keep Australians safe online, while safeguarding values like freedom of expression. It is incumbent on democracies to grapple with these challenges in a way that puts the interests of citizens first and protects our society against those that would use our openness against us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This could well be a bill that ought be renamed the 'chaos and contempt bill' from the Albanese Labor government. 'Chaos and contempt' is what has been shown throughout this whole very long and drawn out process, which ultimately has led to what we've just seen, which is the Albanese government taking the highly unusual step of moving to withdraw their own bill. Having been listed as the first bill of the day, with them having only a few days ago thought this was going to be what they'd prioritise and charge ahead, it's now to be dismissed and discharged instead. It's a chaotic process that didn't just have its start a few days ago; this is effectively two whole years of chaos from the Albanese government on this topic. All the way back to January last year, in 2023—that was when Minister Rowland and the Prime Minister were waxing lyrical about what it was they were going to do to address what indeed are serious issues in terms of the threats that misinformation and disinformation pose. We don't for a second deny that there are significant challenges there.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's why as a government we put in place a range of different steps in terms of the Foreign Influence Transparency Scheme and the Foreign Arrangements Scheme—we made sure that we were on the front foot in those areas. But what we didn't do, Senator Ayres, was decide that the big-brother hand of government was the way to try to regulate what was or wasn't correct for people to say. Our concerns on this are hardly concerns that are isolated to the coalition.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So do the 24,000 people who responded to your public consultation process. Do you know how hard it is to get people to respond to a government consultation process?</para>
<para>Usually, when people respond to a government consultation process, you will get a few of the different organisations that will put their views in. Maybe you'll get a few dozen. If it's really big, you might get a few hundred. This bill had 24,000 people make submissions, overwhelmingly stating their objections to the bill and highlighting the flaws in the bill. Before Senator Ayres continues by trying to besmirch all those who oppose as being One Nation supporters or otherwise, let's understand that the opposition to this bill united everyone from the Australian Human Rights Commission through to religious leaders, civil liberties bodies, the Law Council, academics and others. Right across the ideological and political spectrum, the opposition to this bill was clear-cut, widespread and demonstrated the just how wrong the government had got it.</para>
<para>Having got it so wrong, having had the message through that consultation period with thousands upon thousands of people making submissions, you would have thought the government would have gone back to the drawing board at some stage. You would have thought they would have listened to those criticisms. You would have thought they would have tried to bring a different proposal forward. But no—not this government. They just kept digging deeper and deeper and deeper into the hole and into the trench until, ultimately, they were forced into this humiliating backdown today where they withdraw their legislation and they are left with no clear agenda in terms of the way forward.</para>
<para>There are questions unanswered. Having heard Senator McAllister's contribution, I don't know whether this legislation is still the government's policy or not. Will they come back with the same proposal all over again, or is this legislative retreat also a policy retreat by the Labor Party? Can we have some clarity around that from the government? Who knows what their policy is today as a result of this chaotic process. Having ignored the views of the people who made submissions, having failed to write the bill through its journey, they then got to the point of last week, clearly somehow thought they were going to do a grand deal and ram it through here, only to discover that from the Greens through the crossbench to the coalition, nobody supported it, just as in the public domain. It was a friendless bill right across the spectrum.</para>
<para>So what is Labor 's policy? What is their direction here? What is the alternative that they are going to develop in terms of how to tackle these issues without creating a situation where a minister or a bureaucracy is given some type of monopoly on the truth and assessment of how political debate and discourse is undertaken? That's the fundamental challenge that requires reconciliation in relation to this issue. Yes, you have misinformation and disinformation driven by state and nonstate actors in and outside of our country that do pose genuine threat. Equally, you have the need—as has always been the case in a robust democracy like ours—to enable free speech, free expression and the contest of free ideas to occur.</para>
<para>I don't know whether or not the government are going to proceed with it—I don't know—but they have debated and discussed 'truth in political advertising' laws with the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters. Their proposal is for something based on South Australia—my home state, the only state to have 'truth in political advertising' laws. I would love to stand here and tell the Senate that, as a result of those laws, state election campaigns in SA, with the Electoral Commission, are able to arbitrate over whether something is accurate or not, and that our election campaigns have a higher standard and loftier ambitions. But you can't tell the difference, aside from the fact that each political party has teams of lawyers who sit there and fire complaints against one another, and the poor Electoral Commissioner is caught and wedged in the middle, having to somehow try to navigate the terrain of whether or not these are honest, accurate statements and to judge these things.</para>
<para>Bureaucrats, public servants, shouldn't be put in those positions. They shouldn't be put in a situation where they are having to judge the political debate of our country, and yet that was what this government was headed towards. So we welcome their withdrawal of this bill.</para>
<para>In terms of chaos, it came on the weekend, when the same minister also had a big policy retreat when it came to action in relation to gambling harms. I understand that the government has now abandoned any hope or ambition of responding this year to parliamentary reports in relation to problem gambling and online gambling. The coalition know where we stand. Indeed, the Leader of the Opposition, 18 months ago, announced our position in relation to a ban on gambling advertising during live sport, and we brought legislation to the Senate as well, which the Greens and the Labor Party combined to defeat. What do we have 18 months later? A government without a policy on mis- and disinformation and without a policy in relation to gambling bans and harms, and no action having been taken in relation to any of these issues because of the chaos that we see from those opposite.</para>
<para>Whilst we welcome this progress, the government stands condemned for its mishandling of this process and its failure to advance the types of reforms that could generate support because they would sensibly balance the competing interests at play here and would actually progress the public policy of our nation. Instead, we're left with a government with no policy, with no idea and, clearly, with nothing but a chaotic process and contemptuous policy ideas.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham said chaos and confusion. This government is trying to get through 76 bills this week. They list the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 as their first item on the agenda, and then they have to do a backflip and pull it. But I think, Senator Birmingham, the one word that was missing from the chaos and confusion was the cost—the cost that this bill would have had to the Australian people had the government secured the numbers to put it through. Let's face it—misinformation and disinformation? You've got to be kidding me. This bill was nothing more and nothing less than Mr Albanese and the Australian Labor Party—shame on them—seeking to censor free speech of the Australian people in this nation.</para>
<para>This bill has no friends. When the Australian Human Rights Commission is siding on the side of the coalition and calling out this government for censoring free speech, Australians need to wake up. Let's look at what leading constitutional lawyer Professor Anne Twomey told the Senate inquiry. Again, if you don't want to believe what the coalition and most other Australians are saying, let's listen to what a leading constitutional expert is saying. She said the government's bill, if passed, would 'create worse problems through large-scale censorship of contested views and the undermining of democracy in the name of cleansing it of misinformation'.</para>
<para>I have to say, colleagues, I've been in this place for 16 years. Senator Birmingham has been here longer than me, at 17 years, and, if you ever said to me as a member of the Australian parliament that a government would seek to bring in a bill that seeks to censor the Australian people from having an opinion and that seeks to effectively gag them from having free speech, I would have said to you that you've got to be kidding.</para>
<para>But I'm glad this government's done this. I actually am, because, in a few months time, the Australian people will have to make a decision.</para>
<para>The decision is going to be for a government—and all commentators are now saying Australia's heading to minority—that's in minority with the Australian Greens. Let's be very clear. The Australian Greens have withdrawn support for this bill and are not providing support for it not because they believe in free speech but because, worse, they think the bill doesn't go far enough. You can be guaranteed that, after the next election, if the Australian people vote for this government with the Australian Greens, you will be silenced. Why do I say that? You have a bill currently on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> that seeks to silence you.</para>
<para>This is possibly, as Professor Anne Twomey has said, 'large-scale censorship of contested views' and, worse, 'the undermining of democracy in the name of cleansing it from misinformation.' You read about this, quite frankly, in the books of history. I don't know too many Western democracies that have sought to cleanse their community from misinformation. If the Australian people don't think this is serious, be very, very careful. The people who will be judging whether what you say is indeed true are going to be a bunch of bureaucrats. Nobody gets to judge whether or not what you say is true. Free speech is something that we all hold dear. It is the fundamental principle—that you have the right to say what you believe and that I contest that right with my ideas if I don't agree with it. For a government to come into this place and to seek to censor the Australian people, to seek to censor their right to free speech, shame on them. I would encourage all Australians to have their say at the ballot box.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>To the people of Australia, congratulations—you've won. You put so much pressure on the 'uniparty' that you won; they folded. Four years ago I came out against the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, and it's been a slog ever since. That's when the Morrison-Joyce Liberal-National government introduced it. I'll just make some comments there. This is a part of five components—the mis- and disinformation bill; the Digital ID Act; identity verification bill; under-16s banned from social media; Reserve Bank of Australia working on a digital currency that'll be connected to a global digital currency—of a package towards social credit. The second point is that that package is being put by the major parties—Liberals, Nationals and Labor. The third point is that it's connected to implementation of a similar package around the world in many other nations right now. It's led to the arrest of 150 people in the United Kingdom, with jail for some, simply for making comments dissenting against the British government.</para>
<para>This misinformation and disinformation bill had some worthy sections on regulating the tech giants, but it was primarily about censorship and censoring the Australian people. One Nation supports a referendum to enshrine freedom of speech in our Constitution. One Nation supports legislation to mandate and enable free speech and to make free speech sacrosanct so that no state can trump it. One Nation wants to appeal 18C. This has come out of 18C, which is scandalous. They're some of the basics.</para>
<para>I will read part of my dissenting report on the Senate's inquiry into this bill. It began:</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.1 I thank the witnesses for their submissions and for attending the hearings.</para></quote>
<para>There were many, many witnesses. Thank you, Australia.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.2 The committee report—</para></quote>
<para>as it was originally drafted—</para>
<quote><para class="block">into the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 flies in the face of the expert evidence the committee has received across three days of hearings into the bill.</para></quote>
<para>That evidence just completely smashed it and reversed it. But, with the tidal wave of views from across Australia, the committee changed its view—wonderful.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.3 A committee inquiry should not perform the function of gift wrapping a decision which has already been taken. A committee inquiry should have the role of deciding if the decisions taken in the bill are correct.</para></quote>
<para>The first report did not do that fundamental thing.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.4 For three days, the committee heard from human rights advocates and stakeholders who all criticised this bill on human rights grounds, and added warnings the bill would backfire.</para></quote>
<para>That's what the committee heard almost unanimously.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.5 It is extraordinary the committee would choose to ignore the recommendations of the very people who they invited to attend to advise them on this matter.</para></quote>
<para>Only when the public turned savagely against the government was the committee report changed at the last minute to reflect today's motion. The action of the committee to that point would have made it harder:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… for any Senate inquiry in the future to attract the quality of witnesses this inquiry attracted.</para></quote>
<para>Censorship was the purpose of this bill. Censorship was the purpose of the committee report. The criticism of the bill was well placed. My comments continued:</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.7 The Australian Human Rights Commission questioned a basic foundation of the bill—the definition of 'information'. In the Explanatory Memorandum the term 'is intended to include opinions, claims, commentary and invective'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1.8 The Australian Human Rights Commission stated 'considerable caution should be exercised before including opinions and commentary within the scope of "information" as this significantly broadens the potential reach of this legislation and increases the risk of it being used to censor legitimate debate about matters of public importance.</para></quote>
<para>That is profound. That is the bedrock of a democracy.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.9 One Nation agrees with this concern. The bill misconstrues human rights as relative, indeed as subordinate to the need of government to suppress opinions they don't like.</para></quote>
<para>That's what you tried to do.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.10 The Human Rights Law Centre recommended Clause 11(e) should be amended to reflect a broader commitment to human rights in the bill's objectives. It also recommended the Australian Human Rights Commission should be consulted on the development of codes.</para></quote>
<para>'Consultation'—that'd be nice.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.11 Several submissions related to the specific areas of misinformation. The Australian Medical Professional Society submitted:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By centralising control over what constitutes medical 'truth' in the hands of government regulators, we risk creating an even more Orwellian twist in a system that is already subject to manipulation by powerful interests, to further suppress inconvenient facts and legitimate debate. This would be disastrous not only for free speech and democracy, but for public health as well.</para></quote>
<para>People's lives depend on this. And you wanted to stop it.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.12 The report failed to address a critical failing in the debate around COVID. Namely that information presented as medical truth at the time has been proven to be wrong—</para></quote>
<para>not only wrong but completely contradicting the truth—</para>
<quote><para class="block">and information banned as misinformation has now been proven to be true.</para></quote>
<para>Repeatedly, repeatedly and repeatedly.</para>
<quote><para class="block">1.13 On the issue of COVID messaging, One Nation has maintained a contrary position to the Government of the day since 2020. This followed expert testimony from multiple specialists, research doctors and whistle blowers which contradicted the official narrative.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1.14 The implication is simple—what is misinformation one day is truth the next. This is the danger in the Government deciding what is and is not misinformation. The bias will always be in favour of the government's 'truth'.</para></quote>
<para>I asked every witness a fundamental question on the last day of the hearing: who is the arbiter of truth? No-one could say who is specified as the arbiter of truth in the bill. They all said that it would default to ACMA. Other provisions in my additional comments included: religious freedom, inauthentic behaviour and media literacy. But the fundamental thing is this was an attempt by the Labor Party to build on the Liberal Party's previous attempts at censorship by corralling misinformation under their definition, and then driving the social media organisations, the big tech companies, to ram it down people's throats. That was what you were doing. I'm pleased to see that the people of Australia have put the brake on you.</para>
<para>Now I appeal to the people of Australia to keep a foot on their throat because we must stop the banning of under-16-year-old people from social media.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, you have 10 seconds.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Ten seconds! How embarrassing it is for the Labor government to have to withdraw the misinformation and disinformation bill on the first day of the last sitting week. You've silenced the Senate this week, and you're trying to silence Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKenzie. Unfortunately, the time has expired for this debate. The question is that the motion moved by Senator Grogan be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>16</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cyber Security Bill 2024, Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024, Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7250" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Cyber Security Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7252" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7255" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>16</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>16</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table revised explanatory memoranda relating to the bills, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">CYBER SECURITY BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill, alongside the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill (ISA Bill) and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill (ERP Bill), form the Cyber Security Legislative Reforms Package that will collectively strengthen our national cyber defences and build cyber resilience across the Australian economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This suite of legislative reforms will implement seven initiatives under the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy, a significant step in achieving the Australian Government's vision of becoming a world leader in cyber security by 2030.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To achieve this goal, we must understand that cyber security is everyone's responsibility.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our connections online form a significant part of the lives of most Australians—they enhance the way we live, work and play, and as we continue to invest in transformative digital technologies, this will only expand. At the same time, we need to be clear about how we're protecting Australian individuals and businesses. In order to enhance our collective cyber resilience, we need a clear legislative framework that addresses whole-of-economy cyber security issues, and positions us to respond to new and emerging cyber threats.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need to ensure individuals can trust the products they use every day; we need to enhance our understanding of the threat of ransomware and cyber extortion so we can break the ransomware business model; we need to enhance protections for individuals experiencing a cyber incident to encourage their engagement with government; and we need to learn the lessons from cyber security incidents that have had a significant, detrimental impact on millions of Australians so that we can be better prepared going forward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Cyber Security Bill provides this framework, bringing together measures to achieve the Australian Government's vision under one holistic piece of legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill contains four measures:</para></quote>
<list>The first measure under the Bill will ensure Australians can trust their digital products by enabling the Government to establish mandatory security standards for smart devices. This measure will not only bring us into line with international best practice, but will provide Australians with peace of mind, that the smart devices we have come to rely on also meet our expectations around security.</list>
<list>The second measure helps to build our understanding of the ransomware threat that continues to cause large-scale harm to the Australian economy and national security. Mandatory reporting of ransomware payments will crystalise the picture of how many businesses in Australia are being extorted into making ransomware payments. With these timely and comprehensive insights the Government will be better able to develop the resources, tools and support that are most useful to industry, and help break the ransomware business model.</list>
<list>The third measure seeks to support and assure Australian organisations as they respond to a cyber security incident. This measure affirms the role of the National Cyber Security Coordinator to coordinate whole-of-government incident response efforts, and seeks to increase trust and engagement between business and Government during a cyber incident by limiting the circumstances under which the Coordinator can use and share information that has been voluntarily provided by an affected entity. This measure complements the limited use measure put in place for the Australian Signals Directorate through theIntelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill. With these measures, businesses will have greater comfort to report cyber incidents and gain the assistance they need to respond to, and recover from, cyber incidents.</list>
<list>The fourth measure in the Cyber Security Bill establishes the Cyber Incident Review Board as an independent, advisory body to conduct no-fault, post-incident reviews of significant cyber security incidents in Australia. Reflecting the success of the United States' Cyber Safety Review Board, this new Board will review the circumstances that led to a significant cyber security incident, form findings and provide recommendations for both government and industry to enhance collective cyber resilience.</list>
<quote><para class="block">These four measures form the Cyber Security Bill. Together with the other Bills in this Package, this Bill will equip both Government and industry with the awareness and resilience to better protect Australians from cyber security threats, providing a cohesive legislative toolbox for Australia to move forward with clarity and confidence in the face of an ever-changing cyber security landscape.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 9 October, the Government referred the package to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. The Committee has now handed down its report and recommended that, subject to implementation of the recommendations in its report, the Package be passed by the Parliament. The Government agrees or agrees in principle to all thirteen recommendations in the Committee's report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees to recommendations two and three, and will ensure reporting is user friendly, leveraging the existing single reporting portal. The Government will take an education-first approach, informing impacted entities of their new obligations through communications campaigns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees in principle to recommendation four. The Government agrees that ransomware payment reporting obligations will only apply to the extent that the ransomware incident relates to the reporting business entity's operations in Australia. The Cyber Security Bill as drafted gives this effect and this will be clarified in guidance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees to recommendation five and has revised the Explanatory Memorandum. The Explanatory Memorandum as tabled in the Senate gives effect to this intention that Standing Members of the Board will not need to be members of the Australian Public Service. In line with the Committee's report, composition of standing members will be considered further through industry consultation on the rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees in principle with recommendation six, that the Minister for Cyber Security should consult with the Board before approving the Terms of Reference for each review. Consultation with the Board is built into the legislative framework and the Terms of Reference will be developed by the Board itself, prior to seeking approval from the Minister for Cyber Security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees with recommendation seven of the Committee's report, and has made amendments to the Cyber Security Bill in the House of Representatives to address this recommendation. The Cyber Security Bill, as introduced in the Senate, clarifies that information obtained by the National Cyber Security Coordinator in relation to a cyber security incident, or acquired by a Commonwealth body or State body from a ransomware payment report, is not admissible against the impacted entity in certain criminal or civil proceedings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Concomitantly, these amendments ensure that information obtained by the Cyber Incident Review Board in the performance of its functions is not admissible in evidence against the entity in certain criminal and civil proceedings. The ISA Bill has also been amended in the House of Representatives to address recommendation seven to further clarify the application of the admissibility protections conferred by the limited use obligation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Protections afforded to individuals and information under limited use have been further clarified in the Bills, explanatory memorandum and industry guidance, to address recommendation seven.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These actions ensure Government and industry can work together to communicate with clarity and confidence, making our responses more efficient and based on real-time insights. Cooperation on a national scale is one of Australia's greatest advantages against malicious cyber activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees in principle to recommendation eight. The Government agrees any other right, privilege or immunity that a ransomware payment reporting entity has in respect to any proceedings, including legal professional privilege, will not be impacted. The Cyber Security Bill, as introduced in both chambers, provides this legal effect and the Department will ensure that this is clear to entities affected by the regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees to recommendation nine, and the Department of Home Affairs will publish additional guidance on the intended interpretation and application of key definitions introduced in the <inline font-style="italic">Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018</inline> (SOCI Act). This will be part of the comprehensive guidance being developed on the amendments being made under the ERP Bill to assist regulated entities in understanding their obligations. Consistent with previous reforms to the SOCI Act, the Department will continue to take an education-first approach to compliance, reserving compliance and enforcement action to a last resort.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees with recommendation ten of the Committee's report, and has amended the Cyber Security Bill in the House of Representatives. The Cyber Security Bill, as introduced in the Senate, introduces a provision that the Committee may review the operation, effectiveness and implications of the Cyber Security Act as soon as practicable after 1 December 2027.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees to recommendation eleven. The Minister for Home Affairs will initiate an independent review under section 60A of the SOCI Act by no later than 1 November 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees with recommendation twelve, and has amended the ERP Bill in the House of Representatives to amend section 60B of the SOCI Act to extend the Committee's ability to initiate a review into the operation, effectiveness and implications of the SOCI Act from 3 years to 5 years from Royal Assent of the <inline font-style="italic">Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure) Act 2021</inline> (SLACI Act). The Government acknowledges the importance of conducting a holistic review of the SOCI Act, after the amendments being made by the ERP Bill are implemented. Together, the approach to recommendations eleven and twelve will ensure an independent review can fully assess the operation of the SOCI Act in time to inform the Committee's next review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees with recommendation thirteen, and has amended the ERP Bill in the House of Representatives to repeal section 60AAA of the SOCI Act, removing the now redundant six-monthly reporting to the Committee relating to consultation undertaken by the Department on the amendments made by the <inline font-style="italic">Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure Protection) Act 2022</inline> and the SLACI Act. I thank the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security (Committee) for its work on this Bill through its inquiry and recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I extend my thanks to staff at the Department of Home Affairs for their incredibly hard work developing this Bill. I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">INTELLIGENCE SERVICES AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (CYBER SECURITY) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is the second Bill in the Cyber Security Legislative Package and seeks to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Intelligence Services Act 2001</inline> to legislate a limited use obligation for the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), similar to the provisions relating to the National Cyber Security Coordinator under the Cyber Security Bill. A limited use obligation will protect the information voluntarily provided to, or acquired or prepared by, ASD during an impacted entity's engagement in relation to a cyber security incident or vulnerability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian networks continue to be regularly targeted by opportunistic malicious cyber actors. As outlined in ASD's Annual Cyber Threat Report 2023-2024, ASD responded to over 1,100 incidents from Australian entities. Separately, nearly 87,400 cybercrime reports were received, averaging one every six minutes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together with the other Bills in this Package, this Bill will equip both Government and industry with the awareness and resilience to better protect Australians from cyber security threats, providing a cohesive legislative toolbox for Australia to move forward with clarity and confidence in the face of an ever-changing cyber security landscape.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ASD relies on the receipt of timely, detailed technical information from industry and victims of cyber attacks to build a coherent national cyber threat picture, provide advice on cyber security uplift, diagnose the cause and severity of cyber incidents, and assess the information against ASD's intelligence holdings to mitigate harms in the early stages of a cyber incident.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, both industry feedback and ASD's operational experience indicates a declining willingness from entities to share technical cyber security incident information with ASD in a timely manner, principally due to concerns that information shared with ASD could be co-opted by other parts of Government to inform regulatory action.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A limited use obligation will ensure this information can only be communicated by ASD to others for a permitted cyber security purpose. It is not a safe harbour for industry and will not exempt an organisation from complying with their existing legal and regulatory obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security (Committee) for its work on this Bill through its inquiry and recommendations. The Committee made one recommendation (recommendation seven) in its advisory report that relate to this Bill. As noted in the second reading speech for the Cyber Security Bill, the Government agrees with this recommendation. This Bill has been amended in the House of Representatives to address recommendation seven. As introduced in the Senate, this Bill clarifies the application of the admissibility protections conferred by the limited use obligation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With this measure, alongside the establishment and clarification of the role of the National Cyber Security Coordinator, we will ensure Government and industry can work together to communicate with clarity and confidence, making our responses to cyber security incidents more efficient and based on real-time insights. Cooperation on a national scale is one of Australia's greatest advantages against malicious cyber activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I extend my thanks to staff at the Australian Signals Directorate for their work developing this Bill. I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SECURITY OF CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (ENHANCED RESPONSE AND PREVENTION) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is the third Bill in the Cyber Security Legislative Package. This Bill seeks to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018 </inline>(the SOCI Act) to strengthen existing security obligations on critical infrastructure sectors to address gaps identified following recent major cyber security incidents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia currently faces heightened geopolitical and cyber threats, which means that our critical infrastructure is increasingly at risk. The risk to our sovereignty, defence, and security has never been more present, especially for the critical infrastructure providing essential services crucial to our way of life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recent incidents illustrate that threats to the operation of Australia's critical infrastructure continue to be significant and far-reaching. From natural hazards through to human-induced threats—all have the potential to significantly disrupt critical infrastructure. Indeed, the Director-General of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation has stated, "malign foreign powers will consider using sabotage to coerce, disrupt or retaliate during times of escalating geopolitical tensions. Pre-positioning malicious code in Australia's critical infrastructure is the most likely means."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An attack on a single critical infrastructure entity can quickly create catastrophic cascading consequences across critical infrastructure and Australia's socioeconomic stability, defence and national security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will build upon previous reforms to the SOCI Act to uplift and enhance the security, resilience and agility of critical infrastructure in the face of an increasingly hostile and complex threat and risk landscape.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill contains six measures in total:</para></quote>
<list>First, the Bill seeks to clarify the application of the SOCI Act to data systems associated with a critical infrastructure asset. This recognises and protects the integrity of data held on the asset's secondary systems to reduce the risk of widespread disruptions caused by a successful attack or breach of a secondary system or lateral transfer to operational technology.</list>
<list>Second, the Bill will put in place a more effective government assistance framework to respond to second and third order consequences across all incidents, regardless of their origin, including non-cyber incidents. This will facilitate the Government in addressing and managing multi-asset events and cascading impacts.</list>
<list>Third, the Bill will clarify the definition of protected information and the operation of the disclosure provisions to allow greater cross-industry collaboration and intra-government sharing, including in response to major incidents.</list>
<list>Fourth, the Bill will empower regulators to compel a critical infrastructure entity to remedy a seriously deficient risk management program where there is a risk to national security, the defence of, or the social or economic stability of Australia.</list>
<list>Fifth, this Bill will bring appropriate elements of the Telecommunications Sector Security Reforms, including security and notification obligations, from Part 14 of the <inline font-style="italic">Telecommunications Act 1997</inline> into the SOCI Act, with enhancements to align the regulatory frameworks and clarify telecommunications-specific obligations, including through delegated legislation.</list>
<list>Finally, the Bill will remove direct interest holders from reporting obligations associated with Systems of National Significance. This will reduce administrative burden without compromising security.</list>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security (Committee) for its work on this Bill through its inquiry and recommendations. The Committee made four recommendations (recommendations nine, eleven, twelve and thirteen) in its advisory report that relate to this Bill. As noted in the second reading speech for the Cyber Security Bill, the Government agrees with each of these recommendations. To address recommendations twelve and thirteen, the Government has amended this Bill in the House of Representatives. This Bill, as introduced in the Senate, will amend section 60B of the SOCI Act to extend the Committee's ability to initiate a review into the operation, effectiveness and implications of the SOCI Act from 3 years to 5 years from Royal Assent of the <inline font-style="italic">Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure) Act 2021</inline> (SLACI Act); and will repeal section 60AAA from the SOCI Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together with the other Bills in this Package, this Bill will help to strengthen our responses to the dynamic, cascading consequences of serious incidents that impact our critical infrastructure, and more broadly, the Australian community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I extend my thanks to staff at the Department of Home Affairs for their incredibly hard work developing this Bill. I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution on this cybersecurity legislative package: the Cyber Security Bill 2024, the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024 and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024. The coalition supports the policy intent of the bills. As cyberthreats continue to evolve and the strategic environment continues to deteriorate, urgent action is required to uplift Australia's national cyber-resilience. As the ASIO director-general, Mike Burgess, said in his most recent annual threat assessment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The most immediate, low cost and potentially high-impact vector for sabotage is cyber. Our critical infrastructure networks are interconnected and interdependent, which increases the vulnerabilities and potential access points.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ASIO is aware of one nation state conducting multiple attempts to scan critical infrastructure in Australia and other countries, targeting water, transport and energy networks.</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Signals Directorate has also spoken of near constant cyberattacks on our government networks and critical infrastructure. But it is not just government and big corporates that have been impacted. Small businesses and everyday Australians are increasingly falling prey to criminally motivated cyber actors. In its annual cyberthreat report released on Wednesday, ASD highlighted that it received over 87,000 cybercrime reports in the 2023-24 financial year. This averages out to a report every six minutes. The threat report also noted that 11 per cent of the 1,100 cybersecurity incidents ASD responded to in the last financial year related to critical infrastructure, highlighting how these networks are an attractive target because of the sensitive data they hold and the widespread disruption that a cybersecurity incident could cause. Against this backdrop, we must ensure that our laws are fit for purpose to prepare for and respond to the quickly evolving cybersecurity challenges facing Australia. I support the efforts to do so through this legislation.</para>
<para>Before I speak to the bills before us, it's worth briefly reflecting on the history of reforms in this space. In government, the Liberal and National parties made tough but necessary decisions to secure our digital sovereignty, to equip our intelligence and security agencies with the appropriate tools and to harden the private sector from cyberattacks. We established the Australian Cyber Security Centre within the Australian Signals Directorate in 2014 to help drive a partnership between industry and government. We released the first ever cybersecurity strategy and appointed the first ever cybersecurity minister in 2016. We appointed the first ever cyber ambassador in 2017.</para>
<para>In 2018, we made ASD a statutory agency and legislated the first ever Security of Critical Infrastructure Act. We also led the world by banning Huawei and other high-risk vendors with close connections to the Chinese Communist Party from providing 5G mobile technology in Australia. Many other countries have since followed our lead. In 2020, we updated our Cyber Security Strategy and backed it with $1.67 billion of investment. This stands in stark contrast to the cybersecurity strategy released by the Albanese Labor government last year, which commits only $192 million over four years.</para>
<para>In 2021 we legislated a new legal framework for the Australian Federal Police to take the fight to criminals on the dark web, drawing on the assistance of ASD. We significantly enhanced the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act in 2021 and 2022 by expanding the sectors it covered from four to 11, requiring critical-infrastructure providers to implement risk management plans and giving emergency powers to ASD to step in in the event of a catastrophic attack on our most systemically important networks. And we made the largest-ever investment in ASD's history through Project REDSPICE—$10 billion over 10 years to effectively double their size, with 1,900 new personnel and the acquisition of new platforms, technologies and capabilities. The reforms introduced by the package of legislation before the Senate today represent a logical extension of the world-leading approach taken by the former coalition government.</para>
<para>The Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024 contains a number of provisions that extend the powers of the existing SOCI framework, most significantly by expanding government assistance powers to facilitate the use of last-resort directions for managing the consequences of all hazards incidents. I remind the Senate that, in the wake of the Optus and Medibank cyber incidents in 2022, the then Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security, Clare O'Neil, trashed the SOCI Act, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… that law was bloody useless, like not worth the ink printed on the paper, when it came to actually using it in a cyber incident. It was poorly drafted.</para></quote>
<para>On a separate occasion, she actually praised the SOCI reforms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If you look at the work that was done…on the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act in the last Parliament, when I describe that law to politicians around the world, their mouths are open thinking, "how can we construct something similar in our country?"</para></quote>
<para>It's somewhat ironic, then, that the backbone of Labor's now-much-touted cyber legislation is a modest and logical extension of the SOCI reforms introduced by the previous government. Former minister O'Neil's desperation to politicise what should have been bipartisan national security policy is, unfortunately, emblematic of Labor's broader chaotic approach when it comes to national security. But it is good to see that the government has finally seen reason as to the merits of the coalition's world-leading SOCI reforms to the point that it's decided to double down on our approach, and I welcome the SOCI measures included in the legislation before us.</para>
<para>I also welcome the limited-use provisions in this legislation, which will provide assurance to entities that the information they disclose to government about cyber incidents will not be used against their interests in the future. We need seamless, time-sensitive sharing of information between government and business when there is a cyberattack. We can't afford for any CISO or their CEO to hesitate to pick up the phone to the ACSC and share what they know.</para>
<para>I asked the former director-general of the Australian Signals Directorate, Ms Rachel Noble, about the merits of a limited-use provision at a Senate estimates hearing two years ago. Ms Noble reflected:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Speaking purely from ASD's perspective, I think the safe harbour concept is a most excellent idea because, to your point, where there is ambiguity—if I'm dealing with a government, do you hand that information to other government departments or don't you? How can I be sure that that won't occur without my permission and so forth? So from an operational perspective, in that heat of the incident, if you will, when we're still trying to pull people out of the water and into the lifeboats, to have that absolute confidence for the private sector, that at the very least their operational engagement with ASD would be exempted from the inquiry of others, whether they are other government agencies or other people scrutinising the process, like we've seen in class action lawsuits, for example, that is very attractive to us as well.</para></quote>
<para>I first publicly called for a legislated limited-use obligation on 22 March 2023. I note that if the Australian government had moved more quickly with this reform it may have gone some way to address the declining willingness of industry to share information with ASD in a timely way, which we have witnessed in the intervening years.</para>
<para>The proposed mandatory standards for smart devices in the Cyber Security Bill are welcome and long overdue. I note that the proposal to introduce minimum standards for internet connected devices was first canvassed by the former government in the July 2021 discussion paper stemming from the 2020 Cyber Security Strategy. The need for these reforms has become more acute in recent years as we have learned more about the national security risks of internet connected devices. In this term of parliament, I've conducted successive audits which revealed hundreds of Chinese manufactured cameras, drones and internet connected solar inverters in use across the Commonwealth government on many sites, including many in our Defence and law enforcement agencies. As a result, departments and agencies committed to removing more than 1,000 cameras made by Hikvision and Dahua from Commonwealth sites. Many agencies, including Australian Border Force and the ADF, have grounded their fleet of drones made by DJI. But all these actions came only after I called on the government to address these vulnerabilities and after many of our allies had done so.</para>
<para>The government's piecemeal response is not a robust or sustainable approach to addressing issues that are core to our national security, and it is my hope that the provisions in this legislation lead us towards a more consistent and economy-wide approach to managing these risks.</para>
<para>I welcome the two subsequent PSPF directions, issued by the Department of Home Affairs in July, which relate to managing the risks of foreign interference in technology assets, but I also note the ironic and deeply concerning revelations that the Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security, Mr Burke, is himself the owner of a Chinese-made, internet connected electric vehicle. This came after the department admitted it was possible for these EVs to listen to the occupants, track the movements of the driver and record people and places, and to transmit all of that data back to the manufacturer. It beggars belief that our Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security is driving around in a car that is a potential listening device for the Chinese Communist Party, and I hope these reforms can be used to protect regular Australians, and the minister himself, from these kinds of risks.</para>
<para>Cybersecurity is a shared challenge, and no-one is immune from cyberattacks. That's why it's important that we learn the right lessons from every major cyber incident and apply these lessons across industry and government to make sure we are better equipped next time we face something similar. Two years on from the data breaches suffered by Optus and Medibank, we are still in the dark about the specifics of what led to these incidents, how they were managed and what companies can learn from the incidents to guard against future cyberattacks of a similar nature. This is what prompted me, over a year ago, to call for a mechanism to conduct dispassionate, objective investigations following a significant cyber incident, for the collective benefit of the organisations, who may be able to learn the lessons. This came after the US government announced the establishment of a cyber safety review board in 2021. Had the Australian government acted sooner to establish an equivalent construct here, it may have assisted in post-incident investigations in significant incidents, such as the MediSecure data breach and the CrowdStrike outage, which occurred this year. Nevertheless, I welcome the establishment of a legislated cyber incident review board and I welcome the clarification provided that standing members of the Cyber Incident Review Board do not necessarily need to be members of the Public Service, which will provide flexibility to include representatives external to government if the minister deems it appropriate.</para>
<para>In its most recent cyberthreat report, ASD noted 11 per cent of all incidents ASD responded to in 2023-24 included ransomware—a three per cent increase from the year before. In a report released earlier this year, the UK's National Cyber Security Centre assessed that AI will heighten the global ransomware threat and increase the volume and impact of cyberattacks in the next two years by lowering the barrier to entry for novice cybercriminals, hackers for hire and hacktivists. The mandatory reporting requirements for entities who make a ransomware payment is therefore timely. The regime will assist government and industry to get a fuller sense of the scale of the problem so that our cyber defences are tuned appropriately. There are many other worthy reforms in this package of legislation that I do not have time to discuss at length.</para>
<para>While the coalition support the policy intent of the bills, we do continue to hold significant concerns about the government's rushed process and the limited time for parliamentary scrutiny, which increases the risks of overlooking unintended consequences and drafting errors in the legislation. The former Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security originally announced the development of the most recent Cyber Security Strategy on 8 December 2022. The strategy was released on 22 November 2023, and on 19 December 2023 the department released a consultation paper on legislative reforms arising from the cyber strategy, which informed the current bills. The Department of Home Affairs consulted on a targeted exposure draft of the proposed legislative reform between 4 September and 11 September this year, and the government then introduced the bills on 9 October and referred them to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security on the same day, with submissions due by 25 October. This means that stakeholders had only two weeks to make a submission on the bills and that the PJCIS had just a month to consider and report on the bill.</para>
<para>Given these reforms have been in train for close to two years, it is inexplicable that the government has seen fit to reduce the time for parliamentary scrutiny in its desperation to pass the legislation before the end of the year. Multiple stakeholders shared these concerns during the PJCIS inquiry. The government has shown disregard for these concerns, and it remains clear that the condensed inquiry timeframe was not sufficient to properly scrutinise what is highly complex and consequential legislation. The intelligence committee report canvasses numerous issues identified throughout the inquiry, which has prompted the government to amend their own legislation in line with some of those recommendations. It stands to reason, though, that a more extensive scrutiny process would reveal even more that warrants further consideration.</para>
<para>The coalition has repeatedly cautioned against this approach, and any unintended consequences that arise in the future as a result of this rushed process will lie solely on the government.</para>
<para>As I said, the coalition supports the policy intent of this legislative package. In the face of a complex and evolving threat environment, the government needs robust levers to protect Australians from cyberthreats. We will always support sensible changes which ensure our legislation is fit for purpose to tackle the ever-evolving cyberthreats facing Australia, which is why we will be supporting the passage of these bills and the accompanying government amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on behalf of the Greens to speak to this package of bills: the Cyber Security Bill 2024, the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024 and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024. I note at the outset that this process has been extraordinarily rushed by the government. There's been a chaotic, end-of-year rush to bring this legislation through, first of all, the somewhat secretive Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, which, even though it's stacked with government and opposition members, expressed its concerns about the rush with which this legislation was brought to parliament.</para>
<para>Indeed, this complex legislation proposes a raft of cybersecurity changes for corporate and non-corporate Australia which we know are going to intersect with a series of other existing statutory obligations. Those obligations under the Corporations Act, the existing SOCI Act, the Australian taxation system and the Telecommunications Act, especially in relation to encryption, as well as obligations under the defence exports regime, mean that this legislation is actually incredibly complex reform which will potentially have ripples across an array of existing regulatory requirements.</para>
<para>And what did the government do? It gave the community and stakeholders two weeks to come to terms with the draft legislation and put submissions in. The Law Council of Australia, in their submission to the PJCIS, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Law Council is disappointed that a period of just over two weeks has been afforded between the tabling of the Package and the deadline for written submissions. We emphasise the complex nature of the legislation, which will have wide-reaching impact and consequences in a highly technical field. With respect, the current consultation period does not allow for meaningful and robust consultation with stakeholders to ensure the laws will work as effectively and efficiently as possible.</para></quote>
<para>It wasn't just the Law Council. Pretty much every stakeholder that my office has spoken with and those that put in submissions have made these same points. The Cybersecurity Coalition, for example, in their engagement with the PJCIS said that, yes, they wanted to commend the government on its approach to industry consultation, but they reiterated concerns about the lack of time. The Australian Institute of Company Directors expressed their concern with the lack of time. The Australian Information Security Association also expressed their concerns with the lack of time.</para>
<para>So what does this legislation propose to do? It proposes to put in mandatory security standards for smart devices, the so-called Internet of Things, and I'll speak to that briefly when I talk about what this bill does and doesn't do. It puts mandatory obligations on certain businesses to report ransomware and cyberextortion requests and a very limited-use obligation that restricts how that cybersecurity information provided to the National Cyber Security Coordinator can be used and disclosed, and, again, I'll talk to the concerns about the lack of safe-harbour provisions in this legislation. It also establishes a cyber incident review board to conduct post-incident reviews into significant cybersecurity incidents, and I'll speak to the lack of independence in that cybersecurity review board as well.</para>
<para>Could I deal first of all with the mandatory security standards for smart devices. In this regard, I note that the Greens have circulated a second reading amendment which seeks to add to the motion the following:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) this scheme will work best if the rules applied to Internet of Things devices are harmonised with similar regulatory obligations in other jurisdictions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the government has indicated it will consider alignment of schemes following the passage of the bills.</para></quote>
<para>It is obviously necessary to put in place protections so that, as the Internet of Things grows—as our fridge talks to our car, talks to the front door, communicates with the phone and then shares that online—we have adequate security measures in place to ensure that, as we just travel about our daily business, we don't find ourselves the subject of some sort of global eavesdropping. And we know that's already happening. We know that's already happening, not so much because of the work of the government but because of the work of organisations like CHOICE and others that have pointed out that, for example, in the context of our motor vehicles, how many of the major brands are recording and transmitting data, including sometimes video and voice data, without our consent, simply as we move around in these vehicles.</para>
<para>Perhaps the worst offender is Tesla. Tesla motor vehicles actually record snippets of video and voice without your consent, without your information, as you drive around in Tesla motor vehicles, as well as data about where you go and how you drive, and feed that back to Tesla corporate headquarters in the United States—and feed it back to that champion of human rights, Elon Musk! You would have thought that the opposition would be concerned about that. They don't seem to be concerned about that. We're concerned about that. But it's not just Tesla that's doing a live feed from our motor vehicles back to Elon Musk, who is a danger to democracy, can I point out—absolutely a danger to democracy. It's Korean car brands and it's pretty much every imported Chinese car brand that in one way or another is gathering data about us without our consent, without any protections for us, and feeding it back to heaven knows where.</para>
<para>Of course we need security protections, and this legislation proposes that at some point, maybe in the next 12 months, there will be a process under which some rules will be written and maybe we'll get some kinds of security protocols put in place for the Internet of Things. But we don't know what. We don't know what. Industry has been saying there are well-established international standards that should be clearly articulated by the government, and they'll say that's what they're applying. Don't make up your own standard; look across the world and get the best global standards to put in place.</para>
<para>I'll just refer again to the PJCIS report, which dealt with this in some detail. At 5.26 in the report, it said this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For example, the Institute for Integrated Economic Research … stated that it 'would be sensible' to adopt international standards, 'with the flexibility to change as the threat changes', but that 'it would be useful to set the one standard and enforce compliance' rather than adopting multiple standards. Similarly, … the Software Alliance … submitted that the government should 'take every effort to avoid a divergent approach from other like-minded countries'. Infoblox submitted that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aligning with international standards is not only beneficial for the impacted entities to comply but also essential for Australia to maintain global interoperability and consistency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consumer Electronics Suppliers Australia recommended that 'Australian requirements align with those of major overseas market' to 'minimise the need for bespoke Australian solutions and ensure the future-proofing of regulations against technological advancements'.</para></quote>
<para>What are the standards that the government are applying? That's a question we'd like to see the minister answer. What are the standards it is intended will apply? For example, is the government intending to use the United Kingdom's Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act standards in rule making?</para>
<para>For example, is the government intending to use the United Kingdom's Product Security and Telecommunications Infrastructure Act standards in rule making? Is there an intent to use those international standards, agreed by much of industry, such as the ETSI EN 303 645 standard? What's the standard that the government's intending—are you just going to make up some sort of local South Pacific standard, which will then see a disconnect between Australian security standards and those in comparable jurisdictions? That, I think, is a question that surely the government will have an answer to today before we pass this rushed legislation. Surely, you know what standard you want to apply to the internet of things. But we need to do it rapidly. I don't know about you, Deputy President, but I don't like the idea of my car having a direct conversation with Elon Musk or whoever is monitoring it in Seoul or whoever is monitoring the information feed in Beijing. I'm not much attracted to that concept, and I would have thought the government should be passing legislation to prevent it happening. That is one of the other remarkable failures of this government—in its privacy legislations. This is meant to work coherently with privacy legislation, which is meant to be protecting our data, stopping it being farmed and sold for corporate benefit. But, while we get this rushed legislation through, we've also got a parallel piece of privacy legislation that doesn't even touch upon this. It doesn't do one thing to protect our data. This incoherence from the government on cybersecurity and privacy, failing to understand how these two things connect, is one of the key problems with this government's rushed legislation.</para>
<para>Can I speak briefly to the issues of ransomware and cyber extortion payments and this concept of limited use provision. The purpose, as the Greens understand it, of the limited use protections is do with whether entities—corporate or individuals—are supplying information to the government about their vulnerabilities, cybervulnerabilities or potentially ransom attacks. Remember this isn't always just one email saying, 'We've got your data; if you don't give us $1 million, we're going to blow your data.' Often these ransomware attacks can happen over months or even over a year or more. The limited use provisions mean that no government entity can use the information that has been supplied by entities that have reported for the purpose of civil proceedings against them. But there's no protection against criminal proceedings. I suppose the question that the government hasn't answered yet is: if you want cooperation from industry—and we absolutely need cooperation from industry—why aren't there safe harbour provisions, which already exist in the United States, which seem to be very effective in the United States in ensuring there is a relationship of trust between industry and government? These limited use provisions will not create that relationship of trust between industry and government. That will stop the flow of information and reports back to government, and that will not make us any safer.</para>
<para>Finally—although there is much more in this legislation that we could speak to—the proposed Cyber Incident Review Board is a modest step forward. Actually reviewing what went wrong, actually reviewing what happened in a cyberincident, and having some part of government responsible for doing that work is useful. But it should not be part of Home Affairs, because Home Affairs may often be the problem. Home Affairs may have failed to identify a problem. The regulation presented by Home Affairs may be part of the reason why a ransomware attack was successful. It may by why information wasn't supplied in a timely fashion. This Cyber Incident Review Board needs to be independent of Home Affairs. Our preferred option would be a standalone statutory entity. In the time we've had available, and given all the stress on our parliamentary drafters, we weren't able to do that and we're still waiting for the amendment to be circulated. That's no criticism to parliamentary drafters; they are absolutely under the pump and they're underresourced by this government.</para>
<para>But we're waiting for the amendment to be circulated that will move the Cyber Incident Review Board from Home Affairs, where there are obvious conflicts of interest, into, at least, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet so there's some functional separation between the review board and the entity primarily responsible for cybersecurity. I'll finish with this. This is rushed legislation that's important, and the rush is part of the problem. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That at the end of the motion, add "but the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) this scheme will work best if the rules applied to Internet of Things devices are harmonised with similar regulatory obligations in other jurisdictions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the government has indicated it will consider alignment of schemes following the passage of the bills."</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to speak on the Senate's consideration of the Cyber Security Legislative Package 2024. This package aims to protect Australia's cyber infrastructure, which is an essential part of our national security. Our critical infrastructure underpins our country's ability to deliver essential goods and services to all Australians as our reliance on the digital economy continues to develop and grow. As we know, cyber attacks and threats to our critical infrastructure can be highly lucrative for cybercriminals.</para>
<para>At the end of October and the start of November, I chaired the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security inquiry into this very important package. I want to start by thanking the corporate, industry and civil society submitters and government departments who participated in the public hearings. The committee, in its report, made clear that it supports the urgent passage of these three bills under the Cyber Security Legislative Package 2024. I also note that the evidence that was received by the committee from stakeholders was near universally supportive of the package. I am pleased to see the government's acceptance of the recommendations listed in the report, as illustrated by the amendments to the bill that were brought forward before the chamber. This is something that I and members of the committee welcome wholeheartedly. I'm also pleased that the Department of Home Affairs has considered the feedback and is intent on assisting industry to understand their responsibilities under the reforms.</para>
<para>The first of the three bills in the package, the Cyber Security Bill 2024, provides a very clear framework for the government to identify and to respond to new and emerging cyber attacks. It will provide additional protections to Australians and businesses and improve the government's threat picture to inform additional protections, current incident response procedures and future policy. The bill will also address existing legislative deficiencies that the government outlined throughout the development of the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy.</para>
<para>Let's take ransomware, for instance. The sophistication of ransomware is unprecedented and causes serious problems for businesses right across Australia. It's one of the most pervasive forms of cybercrime. In response to this growing threat, the government's Cyber Security Bill will create mandatory ransomware payment reporting requirements for businesses who are affected by a cyber incident and make ransomware payments. Mandatory reporting of ransomware payments will apply to businesses in Australia that meet an annual turnover threshold. They'll be required to report a ransomware payment to the Department of Home Affairs or to the Australian Signals Directorate within 72 hours of making the payment or becoming aware of the payment. The simple fact is that the current voluntary reporting scheme is underutilised, limiting the government's understanding of the ransomware threat landscape.</para>
<para>It will also allow the government to understand the sheer scope ransomware has on the Australian economy and protect Australian businesses to recover as quickly as possible. The reporting obligations aren't about calling out businesses and hurting their reputation. Instead, they'll enable us to determine the threat level and assist Australia's domestic law enforcement to disrupt cybercrime activities both locally and abroad.</para>
<para>Businesses will be protected from regulators and law enforcement, and the department has emphasised the importance of an education-first approach, not an enforcement led approach, to assist businesses. Ransomware alone costs the Australian economy up to an estimated $3 billion in damages each year.</para>
<para>The bill will also mandate security standards for smart devices that are either internet or network connected. These devices include smart TVs, smartwatches, home assistance, baby monitors, home routers and even consumer energy resources such as rooftop solar systems. Smart devices have become part of our daily lives. Many of us simply can't live without them. Unfortunately, however, many of these devices have poor security features that expose Australians to cyber threats, compromising users' cybersecurity, privacy and online safety. These connectible products will have to meet certain standards, bringing them into line with European standards, for example. Under this measure, smart devices in Australia will have a basic level of cybersecurity. The Australian Cyber Security Centre advises that, by securing smart devices, consumers' information will be protected and will have a reduced risk of being targeted by cybercriminals. Manufacturers and suppliers will also be responsible for compliance and will be required to provide a statement of compliance. Enforcement notices may also be issued if a smart device is not compliant with mandatory standards.</para>
<para>Lastly, the bill will also seek to establish a cyber incident review board to conduct reviews into significant cybersecurity incidents that have impacts on the Australian economy, national security or social prosperity. Currently, Australia has no formalised way to conduct post-incident reviews when such incidents occur. Recent cybersecurity incidents, such as the Optus and Medibank data breaches in 2022-23 and the MediSecure data breach in 2024, highlight that industry and government need an avenue to investigate and learn lessons from such incidents and to prepare for contingencies for future attacks. The board won't act as an investigative body that apportions blame to an organisation that is before the post-incident review. Any information that is given voluntarily to the board isn't admissible in criminal or civil proceedings and doesn't impact any existing legal obligations. Instead, the board will enable our country to learn from cybersecurity incidents to weigh up vulnerabilities that led to the attack and the effectiveness of the government and the industry response to the incident. The formation of the board will align Australia with other jurisdictions around the world—including the United States of America, which created its own cyber safety review board in 2022.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024 amends the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018. These reforms aim to improve the security and resilience of critical infrastructure by assisting the government and industry's ability to help prevent, manage and respond to future significant incidents impacting critical infrastructure through the act. Our country is facing increased geopolitical and cyber threats, putting our critical infrastructure at heightened risk. Critical infrastructure provides essential services that we rely on every single day. It's important that we make these reforms and pass them as quickly as possible. It is worth noting, however, that data is not the only target of threat actors. Critical infrastructure organisations are also targets, as they provide essential services to support Australian life and businesses, including our electricity, water, health, transport, logistics and telecommunications networks.</para>
<para>Finally, the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024 amends the Intelligence Services Act 2001 to legislate a limited-use obligation for the Australian Signals Directorate. Limited use is designed to encourage industry to share cybersecurity incident information with ASD, thereby bolstering ASD's ability to perform its cybersecurity functions.</para>
<para>The provision will work hand-in-glove with the compulsory reporting obligations to help us understand the scope of the threats.</para>
<para>Last week, ASD's <inline font-style="italic">Annual cyber threat report 2023-2024</inline> highlighted our rapidly evolving cyber threat landscape, with over 87,000 reports of cybercrime received over the financial year—on average, a report every six minutes. The report also showed that, from last year, the average cost of cybercrime for small businesses rose by eight per cent to $49,600 per report, and for individuals, it rose by 17 per cent to $30,700 per report. We'll hear a lot about these bills before us—and it sounds like we'll probably end up in the committee stage—but our inquiry was certainly efficient and thorough. I also want to make the point that the process itself had a very comprehensive discussion around the issues the opposition and the crossbench have raised today.</para>
<para>The comprehensive consultation process—one of which I can only describe as 'gold standard' by the department—made it easy for the committee to discuss the issues that were raised with witnesses that appeared before it. It was fantastic to hear that the department had engaged with many stakeholders, particularly those in industry, for some time about these issues. That is why I mentioned earlier in my speech the fantastic work that was done to consult and iron out some of the issues before these bills were drafted and brought before the parliament today.</para>
<para>It's also important to reiterate that, as a direct result of this consultation process, there was and is broad support for the bills by industry and by many others that put submissions to the committee. In fact, many stakeholders participated in the inquiry. There government's consultation was best practice. Therefore, nothing in these bills was a surprise to them, with much of the content in the package already well known to industry. I also want to thank the government for the release of its 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy back in November 2023 and the consultation paper that preceded it.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is committed to lifting our country's cyber legislative strategy and doing everything it can to support Australians and small businesses around the country. The Cyber Security Bill and related bills provide an opportunity for this country and for the Senate to strengthen our national cybersecurity defences. The bills will position Australians and our businesses, particularly in the small business community, to better respond and recover from cybersecurity threats and help our nation become a world leader in cybersecurity by 2030 in an evolving threat environment. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Cyber Security Bill and related bills. This issue is of great importance to our country, our citizens and our economy. As chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Law Enforcement and as a member of the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs, I understand the importance of this issue. It's gripping Australia, and it's gripping the world. Governments around the world must act now if we have any chance of getting ahead of the game of crime syndicates, professional hackers, foreign adversaries and fighting against cybercrime.</para>
<para>I often relay tips to the public about the importance of personal online safety and tools they can implement to try and keep them safe online. There are simple strategies that can boost your cybersecurity, like updating your device regularly, setting up and performing regular backups, learning how to make a copy of your files so that you don't lose that valuable data, turning on multifaceted authentication, setting secure passphrases, recognising and reporting scams, learning how to identify common cyberattacks and defending yourself against cyberattacks. The simplest way you can protect your devices from cybercrime is to turn them off every day.</para>
<para>To get into the practice of doing that, before you get into the shower, turn your mobile phone or your iPad off and, when you get out of the shower, turn it back on. That is a really simple but effective way to help protect yourself.</para>
<para>As a government, since coming to office we have been very committed to meaningful reform. That's why I'd like to acknowledge the Minister for Home Affairs and Minister for Cyber Security, the Hon. Tony Burke, and the previous Minister for Home Affairs, now the Minister for Housing and Minister for Homelessness, the Hon. Clare O'Neil, for the work that they've undertaken. Cybersecurity deserves our attention, and this bill, the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill 2024 and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill 2024 form the cybersecurity legislative reform package of the Albanese Labor government.</para>
<para>As a government, we are committed to strengthening our national cyberdefences and building cyber-resilience across the Australian economy after some very high-profile cyberattacks and data breaches over the last five to 10 years. This suite of legislative reforms will implement key initiatives under the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy, which Minister O'Neil worked tirelessly on, and I acknowledge her contribution. I also acknowledge the department's contributions and submissions to the inquiry of the Intelligence and Security Joint Committee. They were always informed and completely focused on enhancing our cybersecurity intelligence and infrastructure. I know our security and intelligence organisations, and sometimes we take them for granted, but they are so essential to ensuring our national security and our own personal security, so I want to acknowledge them here today.</para>
<para>This is a significant step in achieving the Australian government's vision of becoming a world leader in cybersecurity by 2030. To achieve this vision, Australia needs a clear legislative framework that addresses whole-of-economy cybersecurity issues and positions us to be able to respond to new and emerging threats from wherever they may come. Our country relies on a framework that enables individuals to trust the products that they use every day. We need a framework that enhances our ability to counter ransomware, cyberextortion and end-to-end encryption and to live with cryptocurrency and technological advancements. These are all important things that are part of our world now. We need a framework that enhances protections for victims of cyber incidents and encourages them to engage with government. We need a framework that enables us to learn lessons from significant cybersecurity incidents so that we can be better prepared, because time is of the essence. When a cybercrime has occurred, you have only hours to report that crime to have any hope of being able to track the cybercriminals, which is why we must report these crimes when they occur.</para>
<para>I don't know how many people I've met in the last few months that have actually lost tens of thousands of dollars and been far too trusting. These cybercrimes are real, and they can impact any of us. Sometimes people will say to me, 'You're a high-profile politician, and that's why you're a target.' That's not true, unfortunately. Cybercrime can happen to each and every one of us. So we need a framework that enhances protections for victims of cyber incidents and that, as I said, encourages them engage with the government. We need to ensure that people understand the importance of reporting these crimes as soon as possible.</para>
<para>I know people that have been stung by various scams, and they feel embarrassed.</para>
<para>They really do feel embarrassed and that they should have known better. But the reality is, these criminals are smart, they change the way that they operate all the time. They come from different places as well as from Australia—all these cybercrimes aren't just being perpetrated from people offshore.</para>
<para>The Cyber Security Bill provides a framework to build our cybersecurity as a nation in a globalised and technologically advanced world. The first measure under this bill will ensure that Australians can trust their digital products by enabling the government to establish mandatory security standards for smart devices. Australians are prolific users of smart devices—we love our gadgets—but consumers need to be assured that smart devices are still safe for them to use. To date, smart devices have not been subject to mandatory cybersecurity standards or regulations in Australia. Therefore, this bill will bring our country in line with international best practice and also will provide Australians with peace of mind that the smart devices we've come to rely on almost every day will meet our expectations around security.</para>
<para>The bill will enhance consumer security by prohibiting the use of universal default passwords on a smart device which create backdoors for potential hackers. The bill addresses the ransomware threat that continues to cause large-scale harm to the Australian economy and national security. Businesses are losing millions of dollars every year because of ransomware. We can stop it in its tracks with mandatory reporting of ransomware payments to learn from these attacks. We must prevent future ransomware crises and equip businesses to be able to bounce back following any incident.</para>
<para>The Cyber Security Bill's third measure seeks to support and assure Australian organisations as they respond to cybersecurity incidents. Close cooperation between government and industry is one of our greatest defences against cybercrime, which is malicious. In the wake of cybersecurity incidences, businesses need to know that they can call on government to quickly get the support that they need. The bill affirms the role of the National Cyber Security Coordinator to coordinate whole-of-government cyber-incident responses effectively. It also seeks to increase trust and engagement between business and government during an incident by limiting the circumstances under which the coordinator can use and share information that has been voluntarily provided by an affected entity. With these measures businesses will have a greater comfort to report cyber incidences and gain the assistance they need in order to respond to recover from cyber incidences.</para>
<para>We must remember that cyber crimes can impact businesses and individuals, and it's important that when you have an incident, you report it and reach out and get the support that you need. I thank Minister Burke and Minister O'Neill for their leadership, and I thank those who provided evidence to our committee to investigate this. I recommend the bill to be passed in the Senate today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The cybersecurity legislative package will strengthen our national cyber defences and build cyber resilience across the Australian economy. This suite of legislative reforms will implement seven initiatives under the 2023-2030 Australian Cyber Security Strategy, a key milestone towards the Australian government's vision of becoming a world leader in cybersecurity by 2030. There are three bills within this package: the Cyber Security Bill, proposing new legislation to rectify gaps in Australia's existing cybersecurity regulatory frameworks; the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill, to introduce a limited-use provision for the Australian Signals Directorate, similar to the provisions related to the national cyber security coordinator under the Cyber Security Bill; and the Security of Critical Infrastructure and Other Legislation Amendment (Enhanced Response and Prevention) Bill, to amend the Security of Critical Infrastructure Act 2018.</para>
<para>On 9 October Minister Burke referred the package to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security.</para>
<para>That committee has now handed down its report and recommended that, subject to implementation of the recommendations in its report, the package be passed by the parliament. The government agrees or agrees in principle to all 13 recommendations in the committee's report and, in line with recommendation 1, proposes the package be passed by the parliament. I thank the committee for its work on these bills through its inquiry and recommendations, and I thank all senators for their contributions to the debate on these important bills. On that basis, I commend the bills to the chamber.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>Original question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>28</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, a raft of submitters in relation to the proposed standards for the internet of things urged the government to be very clear about what standards the government is intending to adopt. Can you advise the Senate what standards the government is intending to adopt?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government recognises that, while Australia is a small technology market, it is essential to align the security standards with international approaches, including those of the United Kingdom. Any standards made as ministerial rules are intended to reflect international standards and closely follow global best practice that Australia agrees should apply to smart devices available or reasonably expected to be made available in Australia. Despite some level of influence in the negotiation of international standards, Australia does not oversee these instruments, which can be updated by international standards bodies. The rules based approach to incorporating standards under the act in Australia will help to ensure that consumers in Australia are protected from cybersecurity risks by updates to standards as they arise.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, is the government intending to adopt ETSI EN 303 645, which is probably the most broadly accepted global standard for consumer internet of things cybersecurity? Is that the intent?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's intention is to adopt, if that is the correct word, the first three ETSI.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When you say 'the first three ETSI', does that include EN 303 645, and, if so, which other ones?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that we will be adopting the first three of—I think the number you quoted was 303 645.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When you say 'the first three', it's my understanding that that standard has 13 high-level recommendations and there are 33 mandatory requirements. When you say 'the first three', do you mean the first three of the high-level recommendations of that standard? Do you mean the first three of the 33 mandatory requirements? What do you mean?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I have been advised is that, within that overall standard, there are three—there are a number of standards within that number, and we are proposing to adopt the first three of those. I could seek some further advice on what they deal with, if that would be useful.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I think that would be useful. Thanks, Minister. The reason I'm asking is that this is at the core of this cybersecurity standard, and so knowing what's actually going to be implemented is important. If you could get some further information on that, that would be of great assistance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't I rustle that up for you, while you move on to your next question?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Minister. Two of these bills have limited-use provisions which partly respond to the concerns that industry have about the provision of the information in relation to either ransomware or other cybersecurity. Much of the world, not least the United States, has moved to far more comprehensive safe-harbour provisions to ensure absolute protections. What was the rationale for limited use rather than safe harbour?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Providing for a safe harbour would give entities a shield against any legal liability incurred as a result of a cybersecurity incident. We think that the Australian public rightly expects that entities should comply with their legal obligations and do what they can to proactively respond to cybersecurity incidents. Limited use will not exempt an organisation from complying with their existing legal and regulatory obligations. The limited-use provisions are not a safe harbour to shield business against legal liability but will instead operate to ensure information provided by industry during a cybersecurity incident can only be used by government agencies, including the Cyber Security Coordinator, for the purpose in which it was shared—that is, a permitted cybersecurity purpose.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The safe-harbour provisions that operate in the United States are focused on providing protection against proceedings in circumstances where entities are actively reaching out to regulators to seek assistance and actively reaching out to provide information to the government to not only protect themselves but also protect consumers and others. Safe-harbour provisions in the United States do not come with a complete shield but do provide protections for entities when they, in good faith, reach out in those circumstances. Is it the government's view that the safe-harbour provisions in the United States are not working?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've already made the point that providing a safe harbour regime—and I'm not sure that it extends quite as widely in the US as you've said—would give entities a shield against any legal liability incurred as a result of a cybersecurity incident. I didn't say that it was a complete shield, but it would provide a shield against liability.</para>
<para>The other issue with going down the safe harbour path is that that would interfere with a number of other regulatory regimes that Australia has in place, including those that relate to regulatory agencies like APRA. There are a number of others as well, and our view is that providing for limited use is a more appropriate way to go for Australian circumstances.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the short consultation period for this and the complexity of the legislation, and given it cuts across existing regulatory and reporting requirements under the corps act, under the tax system, under the SOCI Act, under the Telecommunications Act, and, indeed, under Defence Export Controls, is the government intending to produce some clear regulatory guidance to industry that will show how these things will work after this legislation is passed and how they will interact? If so, who's going to produce it and when are we going to see it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, that is the intention, and the intention is that once this bill is passed, if it is passed, the Department of Home Affairs and the Australian Signals Directorate will provide that guidance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are they each intending to provide separate guidance? It's the fractured nature of the regulatory regime here, which is going to be even more fractured after the passage of this bill, if this bill is passed, that's causing multiple concerns and quite genuine concerns. Is ASD going to produce something and Home Affairs going to produce something separate, or is it going to be a whole-of-government response saying, 'This is how it works'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's likely that that will be whole of government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, once information is provided to the ASD under the amendments to the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill, there's no requirement in this legislation to seek the consent of the entity that's provided the information before it's shared by ASD to either the National Cyber Security Coordinator or others. Equally, in relation to the Cyber Security Bill, once information is provided to the Cyber Security Coordinator there's no requirement to seek the consent of the entity before the information is shared to ASD. The coordinator can share to ASD and ASD can share to the coordinator once information is provided, but at no point is there the seeking of consent of the entity who provided that. If you want to have a relationship of trust with reporting entities, and you want this early provision of information—and I think we all share that goal—why isn't there a requirement to make efforts to seek consent?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's view is that requiring that type of consent would significantly slow down the information sharing that is required to resolve and manage a particular cybersecurity incident. I make the point that both the ASD and coordinator have limited-use powers.</para>
<para>In answer to your earlier question about the standards within ETSI 303 645, the first three standards that I referred to were, firstly, that there's no default password; secondly, that there's a requirement to have a vulnerability disclosure statement; and, thirdly, to let consumers know how long they are willing to support the device. That mirrors the UK.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is on the Cyber Security Bill. The review board will sit within Home Affairs. Given the review board, in significant part, will be reviewing the adequacy of the regulatory arrangements and the responses from Home Affairs, why was it decided to put the review board in Home Affairs and not in some other agency so that there's at least the appearance of independence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As you'd be aware, the Department of Home Affairs is the lead agency for cybersecurity matters. The Cyber Incident Review Board is being set up in such a way as to ensure that it's independent, and there are processes in place to manage conflicts of interest—for example, if a board member from industry is part of an investigation into its own company or a competitor.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What are the arrangements for independence? It's not entirely apparent that there will be structural and legal independence, from the legislation. So, if there are any legal provisions in here for independence, can you identify them? If they're not going to be in the form of statutory protections in the bill, what are the other provisions that you say will provide the independence?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Cyber Security will establish the eligibility requirements for board members and the expert panel to ensure the board has an appropriate mix of skills, experience and diversity. The eligibility criteria will include a requirement to hold or be eligible to obtain a security clearance and demonstrated qualifications and/or experience in the fields of law, cybersecurity, information security, incident response and crisis management, public administration, critical infrastructure sectoral experience, critical infrastructure regulation or audit and assurance experience. I mentioned that some thought had been given to how board members would handle conflicts of interest, which I'm happy to go into, but we are also proposing here to enshrine the Cyber Incident Review Board in legislation as a way to ensure its independence and enable the board to have powers to gather documents.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hope that the board doesn't take its advice on conflicts of interest from the Commissioner of the NACC. Deputy President, I seek leave to move Greens amendments (1) to (24) on sheet 3161 together.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Cyber Security Bill 2024, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 8, page 8 (after line 18), after the definition of <inline font-style="italic">personal</inline><inline font-style="italic">information</inline>, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Prime Minister's Department</inline> means the Department administered by the Prime Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 8, page 9 (after line 1), after the definition of <inline font-style="italic">Secretary</inline>, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Secretary of the Prime Minister's Department</inline> means the Secretary of the Prime Minister's Department.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Clause 45, page 53 (line 13), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Clause 46, page 54 (line 7), after "Minister", insert "or the Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Clause 46, page 54 (line 19), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Clause 51, page 58 (line 17), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Clause 51, page 58 (line 33), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Clause 54, page 61 (line 21), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Clause 54, page 61 (line 31), omit "the Minister", substitute "the Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Clause 55, page 62 (line 23), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Clause 56, page 64 (line 21), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Clause 60, page 69 (line 8), omit "Department", substitute "Prime Minister's Department".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Clause 60, page 69 (line 10), omit "Department", substitute "Prime Minister's Department".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Clause 63, page 71 (line 1), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Clause 64, page 72 (line 4), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Clause 66, page 72 (line 23), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Clause 68, page 73 (line 20), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(18) Clause 69, page 74 (line 13), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(19) Clause 71, page 75 (line 27), omit "Department", substitute "Prime Minister's Department".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(20) Clause 72, page 76 (line 6), omit "Secretary of the Department", substitute "Secretary of the Prime Minister's Department".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(21) Clause 75, page 78 (line 23), omit "Secretary", substitute "Secretary of the Prime Minister's Department".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(22) Clause 76, page 79 (lines 3 and 4), omit "Secretary and given to the Minister", substitute "Secretary of the Prime Minister's Department and given to the Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(23) Clause 76, page 79 (line 15), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(24) Clause 77, page 79 (line 27), omit "Minister", substitute "Prime Minister".</para></quote>
<para>These are Greens amendments that would make the board at least to some extent independent, because they would move the Cyber Incident Review Board from Home Affairs, where the board would, effectively, report to the entity that it's overseeing and be selected by the minister who's responsible for the department that the board's meant to be overseeing, to the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. We don't think it's a perfect solution for independence of the board but we think it's at least some structural independence from Home Affairs. You could also say that Home Affairs has enough on its plate without having another review board added to it.</para>
<para>More fundamentally, given this review board is going to be reviewing what went right and what went wrong in major cybersecurity incidents and given the conduct of Home Affairs will be central to that, of course the review board should not be within Home Affairs. We think the appropriate authority or agency in that regard should be the Prime Minister and Cabinet, to show the seriousness of this matter and to provide at least some functional independence for the review board. I commend the amendments to the chamber.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to take the opportunity to put the coalition's view on each of the Greens amendments in one go. The coalition will not be supporting any of the Greens amendments today for two reasons. Firstly, we were not given sufficient time to consider amendments that have potential unintended consequences. We cannot support them on that basis. Secondly, I think there is a great risk that the Greens' amendments, while well motivated, will not achieve their own intended objectives. For example, moving the Cyber Incident Review Board into the Prime Minister and Cabinet portfolio does not make much sense. PM&C, qualified, competent and patriotic though they no doubt are, do not have expertise in cybersecurity incidents, and it is not the relevant portfolio to be managing it.</para>
<para>We're also concerned about the other amendments, which would seek to restrict the ability of the ASD and cybersecurity coordinator to work together in the heat of a crisis. The provisions on limited use are strongly supported in the sector, but this would complicate the government's own incident response, and that's not something we should do.</para>
<para>While I'm on my feet I did also want to take the opportunity to gently clarify the personal cybersecurity advice that was given by Senator Polley in her speech in the second reading debate. As well intentioned as I'm sure it no doubt was—and certainly not her fault, because the Prime Minister has said similar things—it is not a good idea to tell Australians that they can protect themselves from cybercrime by turning their phone on and off every day. There's highly specialised advice to people like members of parliament who are targets of sophisticated state-backed actors, including foreign intelligence services, trying to engage in espionage on them. Most Australians are not the target of foreign intelligence services for espionage, and this will not offer them any protection against a ransomware attack, a phishing email, a business email compromise, a socially engineered attack or a data breach. Instead of relying on any politician, Senator Polley or me, Australians should go cyber.gov.au, where there are very practical tips about things you can do to protect yourself from a cyberincident.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will also be opposing the Greens' amendments. I've already made the point that the legislation that we're debating does preserve the independence of the Cyber Incident Review Board—in particular, in clause 63 of the bill. And I've have already outlined the reasons the government does not support requiring consent to be obtained before, for example, ASD and the cyber coordinator can exchange information.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The next two amendments, although they're to different pieces of legislation—one to the Cyber Security Bill and one to the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill—effectively do the same thing, although in reverse. I think it would be most convenient if I move the amendment on sheet 3171 first, in relation to the Cyber Security Bill. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Page 46 (after line 14), after clause 39, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39A Limitations on disclosure to ASD</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Despite any other provision of this Act, the National Cyber Security Coordinator must not disclose information that has been:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) provided to the Coordinator under this Act; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) provided by, or on behalf, of an entity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to the Director-General of ASD, or a staff member of ASD, unless:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the entity has consented to the disclosure; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) if urgent or other exceptional circumstances exist—the Coordinator has taken reasonable steps to obtain the consent of the entity to the disclosure, but the entity has not responded to the request for consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If the Coordinator discloses information under this section in urgent or other exceptional circumstances without the consent of the entity, the Coordinator must notify the entity of the disclosure as soon as practicable after the disclosure occurs.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment would require the National Cyber Security Coordinator, before disclosing to the ASD information obtained by an entity, to seek the consent of that entity and take reasonable steps to obtain that consent. Why do we say this is important? This is about building that environment of trust and relationship of trust, and stakeholders have said that this is important. If they're going to have confidence in sharing information with the National Cyber Security Coordinator, they want that relationship of trust, and that would include in every reasonable case seeking the consent of the entity before the information is passed on to the ASD, because, of course, the ASD then would use it for quite distinct purposes from which the National Cyber Security Coordinator would use it.</para>
<para>This amendment also recognises that there may be urgent or other exceptional circumstances where it's not possible to get that consent, even though reasonable efforts will have been made, and will permit the sharing even where there isn't consent in those urgent and exceptional circumstances. But it then says that if that happens they have to inform the entity about the information being shared. I heard from both the opposition and the government that they will be opposing this because they say that there needs to be the ability to share information in urgent and exceptional circumstances. I point out that the amendment incorporates that concern. What I also don't understand is why the government and the opposition are resisting at least telling entities that the information has been shared. There's nothing in the Cyber Security Bill that tells entities when the information has been shared without their consent. If you want a relationship of trust, if you want the information to flow, keeping entities in the dark does not assist. So I commend that amendment to the chamber.</para>
<para>I'll speak briefly to the amendment on sheet 3172, which does exactly the same thing for the Intelligence Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Cyber Security) Bill, only in that case it provides that, where the Director-General of the ASD has information, they can't communicate that information to the National Cyber Security Coordinator without consent. Again, it provides for the 'urgent and exceptional circumstances' exception to that and then also requires, as do the amendments on sheet 3171, the Director-General to inform an entity if the information has been provided without their consent.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I want to ask you a few questions about the review board itself. How much will it cost taxpayers to create the Cyber Incident Review Board? What does their remuneration look like?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The chair and standing members will be remunerated as determined by the Remuneration Tribunal. Remuneration for expert panel members participating in a review will be determined under the rules. That will be subject to a 28-day consultation period following passage of the bill. So there will be an opportunity for people to have their say on that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How does the minister select the chair and the standing members? What's the process?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The board will comprise three parts: a chair, standing members and an expert panel, who form a pool of members that can be called upon for individual reviews. The board will also be allocated support staff from the Department of Home Affairs to assist with the functions of the board and for administrative duties.</para>
<para>The chair will be appointed by the Minister for Cyber Security and have the role of leading the board and making decisions in response to powers granted within the legislation. In the event there's a vacancy in the office of the chair, the minister may appoint an acting chair to carry out the chair's duties.</para>
<para>The standing members will be appointed by the minister. Together the chair and the standing members will form the core component of the board. Their terms are limited to a maximum of four years.</para>
<para>The third component of the board will be the expert panel, which will comprise industry participants, subject matter experts, cybersecurity specialists, academics and other individuals, as appointed, to assist the board to undertake a review of a cybersecurity incident. Appointment to the expert panel will be managed through a comprehensive appointment process including a register of interest.</para>
<para>You may have heard me mention before the eligibility criteria to serve on the expert panel. Those people would be required to obtain a security clearance and have demonstrated qualifications and/or experience in fields related to these matters.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What do those 'fields' mean exactly? What sorts of qualifications will they exactly be looking for?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The kinds of fields that people would be expected to have experience in to serve on the board or the expert panel would include law, cybersecurity, information security, incident response and crisis management, public administration, critical infrastructure, sectoral experience, critical infrastructure regulation or audit and assurance experience. In line with the recommendation made by the PJCIS report, the eligibility requirements for standing members and the expert panel will be consulted further as part of the consultation on the rules. So, obviously, if you or others had views on that, we'd be happy to take them into account in that consultation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you telling me that I have to have only one of those qualifications or all of those qualifications you just listed? That's a big range of qualifications. You can come out with some sort of assurance experience, but it doesn't mean you have any idea on security whatsoever. So what does this look like?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not sure that anyone in Australia would necessarily have every single one of those qualifications. But, as is the case with the board of a company or the board of any government authority, we'll be looking for people who have a mixture of skills. Some of them will have them in cyber incident response. Some of them will have them in law. Some of them will have them in impact on critical infrastructure. Basically, we will be trying to come up with a board that has an overall cross-section of those skills.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you know that there are over 1,240 Australian government advisory boards right now? So I want to ask you: Why is the department not capable of providing that advice? Why haven't you hired them into the department?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Department of Home Affairs is the lead agency when it comes to cybersecurity. But Australia currently has no formal mechanism to conduct post-incident reviews into cyber incidents that do have significant impacts on the Australian economy, national security or our social prosperity. What we've seen through some of the most recent high-profile cybersecurity incidents is that industry and government need to do more to effectively investigate and learn lessons from cybersecurity incidents and prepare contingencies for future attacks. The government's view is that we do need a standing independent mechanism—independent of government, rather than housed in a department or run by a department—that is responsible for undertaking post-incident reviews of vulnerabilities that led to a significant cybersecurity incident or the effectiveness of the government and industry response to the incident. By establishing this board, it brings us in line with a range of other countries, such as the US, which established its own cybersafety review board in 2022. I guess one of the risks in simply ensuring that the department manages these things is that there could be a situation where the department's own response was not adequate. Having an independent review board gives us the ability to have someone independently look at the actions of that department as well as industry and anyone else involved.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The word is that you already have some people in mind for these jobs. This is 'jobs for mates', is it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm certainly not aware, as the representing minister, of anyone who has been put forward for this or has intentions for this. I've previously outlined what the process will be for finding people to serve in these roles.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendment (1) on sheet 3171, moved by Senator Shoebridge, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the Australian Greens' amendment on sheet 3172:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 2, page 7 (after line 36), after section 41BB, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">41BBA Limitations on disclosure to National Cyber Security Coordinator</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Director-General of ASD, or a staff member of ASD, must not communicate limited cyber security information to the National Cyber Security Coordinator that has been voluntarily provided to ASD, in the performance of its functions, by, or on behalf of, an entity unless:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the entity has consented to the communication; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if urgent or other exceptional circumstances exist—the Director-General or the staff member has taken reasonable steps to obtain the consent of the entity to the communication, but the entity has not responded to the request for consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If the Director-General of ASD, or a staff member of ASD, communicates limited cyber security information under this section in urgent or other exceptional circumstances without the consent of the entity, the Director-General or the staff member must notify the entity of the communication as soon as practicable after the communication occurs.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>Bills agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills reported without amendment; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>33</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7231" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>34</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are doing the second reading on the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024, but there are a number of deferred motions; that's what we're dealing with at the moment. The first deferred motion is in the name of Senator Henderson. The question is that the motion as moved by Senator Henderson be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:12]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll now deal with the deferred vote on the second reading amendment on sheet 3113, as moved by Senator Faruqi. The question is that the amendment be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:16]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the second reading amendment as moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:23]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>41</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>4</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move my second reading amendment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that student debt has skyrocketed in recent years, compounding a growing intergenerational inequity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) immediately reform the failed Job Ready Graduates Program that has been the primary driver of increased student debt,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) amend the timing of indexation on student loans so that no indexation is charged on amounts already repaid, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) stop indexation from accruing until the compulsory repayment threshold is reached".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move the amendment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes the importance of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) supplying targeted financial support for students, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) increasing the flexibility of the Higher Education Loan Program (HELP); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to explore further measures to achieve this, including by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) amending the treatment of HELP debt repayments so that payments made in the year preceding the date interest is calculated are deducted from the amount of the debt before the interest calculation,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) reduce both the student and Government funding contribution for units that are delivered as practical placements, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) allowing practical placements undertaken by Australian students overseas to be recognised as course credit by their Australian higher education provider".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>36</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Greens amendments (1) to (3) on sheet 2949 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 2), omit "Part 1".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 2, page 2 (table items 3 to 6), omit the table items.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, page 4 (line 1) to page 28 (line 10), omit the Schedule, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 — Ending HELP indexation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 140-5(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the subsection (not including the method statement), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A person's <inline font-style="italic">former accumulated HELP debt</inline>, in relation to the person's *accumulated HELP debt for a financial year, is the amount worked out using the following method statement:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 Sections 140-10 and 140-20</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the sections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 Subclause 1(1) of Schedule 1 (definition of <inline font-style="italic">HELP debt indexation factor</inline> )</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the definition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Application of amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> made by this Schedule apply in relation to a person's *accumulated HELP debt for a financial year that begins on or after 1 July 2025.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We've actually hit the hard marker of 1.30 pm, so we will be moving to two-minute statements.</para>
<para>Progress reported.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>37</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Small Business</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 19 November, ASIC released data on insolvencies. Labor set a new high, revealing that 1,364 Australian businesses went under in October 2024. This is the highest number of business insolvencies ever recorded in a single month, surpassing all previous records and making yet another alarming milestone under this government. This is on the back of the previous record set by this government in May this year.</para>
<para>Over 40 businesses a day are closing their doors, unable to weather the cost-of-doing-business crisis that this government has allowed to fester in our country. Unfortunately, my home state of New South Wales is impacted the most. Labor has ensured New South Wales remains at the top of the leaderboard—an unenviable first place—among all states for business insolvencies. In fact, over this term of parliament New South Wales has contributed over 40 per cent on the national insolvency figures. They aren't just statistics; each number represents livelihoods lost, families struggling and communities weakened.</para>
<para>Small businesses are being crushed under rising interest rates, soaring energy costs and burdensome red tape. Despite the devastation to small businesses and the people who worked hard to build them, this government refuses to act in any meaningful way. Only last month Senator Gallagher downplayed this alarming trend at Senate estimates, suggesting insolvencies had not really reached historical highs. We need meaningful action to address business closures, especially in the hardest-hit construction, retail and hospitality industries. It is time to stop ignoring this problem. It's time to stop pretending this problem doesn't exist. Small businesses are being crushed under this government, and we need to meaningfully act now to help them survive.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Dungowan Public School: 150th Anniversary</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was absolutely pleased and proud to have the opportunity to speak just a few weeks ago at the 150-year anniversary celebrations of Dungowan Public School. The school, in its various forms, has operated continuously from 1874. It's a bush school in the beautiful Dungowan Valley, slightly to the east of Tamworth. It's beautiful Australian farming country. There were students and dozens of former students there, as well as teachers, former teachers and members of the Dungowan Valley community, to celebrate what was a wonderful day. All of them together sang the national anthem and watched wonderful performances from the school choir and other musical performances. I spoke to the school captains after the event, who both proudly told me they were looking forward to enrolling in Farrer Memorial Agricultural High School the following year.</para>
<para>I have a personal connection with the school; my great-grandfather taught there and was the principal from 1910 to 1932. William John Roberts was a proud former teacher at that school. He employed his wife, my great-grandmother, as the needlework teacher—no doubt a voluntary contribution—over the course of those 22 years. It was a school that was established in 1874, before Australia itself existed. The great educational reforms led by Sir Henry Parkes in New South Wales meant that it was one of the first schools in New South Wales and in Australia to be part of our public school education system. I was really pleased to see the pride and resilience of that country community and the pride they have in their local school.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rising Tide: Protests</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I spent the last three days on the water and on the beach in Newcastle with thousands of Australians in one of the most significant climate uprisings on the planet. The tide is rising, and Newcastle's Rising Tide festival was a powerful act of celebration and protest. Over 5,000 Australians came together to peacefully protest and occupy the world's largest coal export port, standing together to stop shipping in Newcastle port. They're asking this government to stop new coal and gas, to end exports from Newcastle by 2030 and to tax fossil fuels and put the money that we get from tax towards the transition that we so desperately need and Newcastle needs. However, since coming to power, the Albanese government has approved 28 new fossil fuel projects, and hundreds are in the pipeline. The science is clear: we cannot have new fossil fuel projects and ensure a safe future for our planet.</para>
<para>This is the future of our kids we're talking about, and they know it. Amongst the 170 arrested were 14 children and young people aged under 18. The youngest was 13, and he had lost his home in the Lismore floods. More than 20 people affected by the floods travelled from the Northern Rivers and stood with people also affected by bushfires. They know the score. I rode alongside 17-year-olds from across our country and people from all occupations. More than 180 South Australians made their way there, alongside miners, doctors, childcare workers and so on.</para>
<para>Clumsy attempts of the New South Wales Minns government to stop the protest failed. Protesting should not be this much fun. It might just change the world. It's only going to grow, so see you next year, all of those who came this year, when we assemble again in October and November.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7239" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wanted to take the opportunity to celebrate the great victory for free speech that has been struck this morning, with the government's decision to face reality and discharge the terrible, antidemocratic Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill, the so-called MAD bill. This bill was the most antidemocratic piece of legislation to ever come before this parliament, and it would've effectively established a government ministry of truth to decide for themselves what Australians can or cannot say on social media.</para>
<para>While this was a terrible piece of legislation, what was heartening to see over the past year and a half was the great uprising of Australians who cherish the democratic rights and liberties and the ability to speak our own mind to each other so much that they fought very hard against this bill. I want to say thank you to those thousands of Australians that gave up their free time to fight for the basic rights of all Australians, including future Australians, to make sure we don't have government censorship in this great, free southern land.</para>
<para>The Senate committee on the MAD bill took almost 30,000 submissions. I'd never seen anything like it. I don't think all of them were able to be processed; there were too many submissions coming through. There were thousands of others on social media who raised issues with this. That work did not go unrewarded today, with the final removal of this bill. It was a total victory over those who want to restrict and gag Australians. It also meant that all crossbench senators had come out and declared their opposition. I thank them for standing with the Australian people on this issue.</para>
<para>This defeat has been so comprehensive and so total that, surely, no government ever again will have the temerity to bring forward a piece of legislation which seeks to silence the speech of free Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This Friday marks Black Friday, a huge day of spending for consumers around the world. But, as we hit the shops and add to cart, there are a few important things to remember. First, as we hit the shops, as frantic as it may be and as stressful as it may be, it is absolutely essential to treat all retail workers with the respect they deserve. No-one deserves a serve at work, and every worker has the right to be safe and respected at their place of work. Second, as we buy online, it's important to remember that, whilst we all love the convenience that online shopping brings, this convenience cannot come at any cost.</para>
<para>We know the gig economy both responds to and shapes our changing world, but, as the economy has changed around us, too many workers have been left behind. Some of the biggest businesses benefiting most from this change have some of the worst industrial conditions of all. Some aren't just profiting from insecure work; they actively champion it. That's what the Make Amazon Pay day is about—workers, unions and activists across our world standing together in the fight for justice and fairness, especially within the gig economy.</para>
<para>Here in Australia, unions like the Transport Workers Union and the SDA have been at the forefront of advocating for better conditions for these workers, including workers from these global businesses. The union movement has worked shoulder to shoulder with us here, a Labor government who has legislated the closing the loopholes bill, ending the race to the bottom that has existed in the gig economy and that hasn't served workers, good businesses or consumers well at all. Convenience matters, but not at any cost. These reforms would only ever have been delivered by a Labor government, something we are all proud of—reforms that matter. This Black Friday, let's keep in mind that no-one deserves a serve, and all workers, whether they're in the gig economy or not, deserve protections and to be paid fairly for the work they do.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mining Industry</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was delighted to be a guest at the National Mining Day event hosted by Santos and sponsored by many leading mining companies at Moomba in South Australia last week. This event celebrates the mining sector and its enormous contribution to Australia and its high standard of living. Executive chair of Hancock Prospecting, Gina Rinehart, laid bare the essential and irreplaceable contributions of mining to Australia. Mrs Rinehart said that industry paid more than $43 billion in tax and delivered more than $31 billion in royalties, enough to cover our entire defence budget plus all federal spending on roads and schools.</para>
<para>Mining has helped deliver to Australia some of the highest living standards in the world, but Mrs Rinehart also said that this could no longer be taken for granted. And she's right. We've been in a per capita recession for six quarters now. We need the mining sector to flourish if we are going to reverse this decline in our living standards, but this government, supported by the Greens, Teals and Senator Pocock, is doing everything it can to stifle mining with red, green and black tape.</para>
<para>Labor has stopped a billion-dollar gold mine over a mythical insect and is holding up a $29-billion gas project over a poisonous snake. Labor is killing the golden goose. Mrs Rinehart reminded this government that it does not create wealth; it only consumes the wealth of the private sector. It must get out of the way of the industries which create wealth. If we want to see higher investment, better living standards, higher wages, more jobs and more onshore innovation, cut the government's undue burdens on mining and other wealth-creating industries and introduce to the parliament government efficiency. I'll call on all those opposed to show me the clear evidence that human induced carbon dioxide affects climate change. Until then, you are destroying our country and standard of living.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Future Fund</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's time to stop the rorts. Yesterday it was revealed that the Ambassador for Gender Equality had spent $335,000 in the last two years flying around the world. On top of that, we'd just seen the week before the Ambassador for Climate Change fly to Baku to give a presentation where there were about five people in the room. She did a welcome to country in another country. Why you do a welcome to country when you're in another country is beyond me. How many more ambassadors do we have out there wasting taxpayer dollars, flying around the world and virtue signalling instead of spending that money here to provide essential services to the Australian people, who are struggling under a cost-of-living crisis?</para>
<para>I note last week that the Treasurer has come out and said that he's going to extend the time in which they're going to continue to grow the Future Fund or not draw down on that Future Fund. The Future Fund is actually misnamed. It's an Orwellian term. It's not a future fund; it's a slush fund for retired bureaucrats in Canberra. The idea that this is some sort of sovereign wealth fund needs to stop because the funds from that fund or the proceeds from that fund go to retired bureaucrats. They're not going to all Australians. Yes, all Australians are contributing through their hard-earned taxes to this particular fund, but the fund is only going to be applied to about 130,000 retired bureaucrats.</para>
<para>Originally, that was going to start being drawn down in the 2020s—that is, now—but it is continually being pushed out at a massive cost in administration fees to maintain this. Why don't we pay down the future fund by paying out the defined benefits, provided those defined benefits are means-tested, and get on with the business of delivering services to the Australian people?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, I had the privilege of meeting with representatives from the Tamil Refugee Council as well as individuals from the Tamil, Iranian and Bangladeshi communities, all of whom have been deeply affected by Australia's temporary visa system and the uncertainty surrounding it. Their stories speak to the urgent need for a clear and permanent pathway to protection for refugees in this country.</para>
<para>I spoke to Abishek, who, at just seven years old, travelled for over a month with his mother to seek safety in Australia. After initially spending 2½ years in the Darwin detention centre, Abishek is now a high school graduate. Despite his hard work, he faces a major obstacle. He has no permanent residency, no right to work and no opportunity to go to university. He can't join his friends in pursuing their futures, yet Abishek hasn't given up. Instead, he volunteers his time laying timber floors, determined to contribute to the country he calls home.</para>
<para>Abishek's situation is not unique. Many refugees—like a carpenter I met from Bangladesh—have high-demand skills but are unable to work due to no working rights. Similarly, an Iranian refugee shared his story of fleeing persecution in 2012 after being an outspoken human rights advocate. Although he aspires to contribute to Australia as a heavy vehicle mechanic, his temporary status prevents him from working or studying.</para>
<para>For over 100 days, the Tamil Refugee Council have been protesting for permanent protection and enduring discrimination from some government officials while receiving support and solidarity from the community. Regardless of these challenges, their resolve remains strong. These stories highlight the pressing need for change. It's time to end the limbo and offer a pathway to permanent protection so that refugees can contribute fully to our Australian society.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living, Housing</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A recent survey found that the two most important issues for people in Western Australia are cost of living and housing. The survey found that 82 per cent of people said that their housing costs had increased, and nearly half of respondents said that they were now very concerned about their ability to cover their housing costs. People aren't cutting back on food. The survey found that 37 per cent of people who gave their view said they were very unsure and believed they would be unable to cover a $500 unexpected bill without borrowing money, using a credit card or, in other ways, going into debt like selling an asset.</para>
<para>The experience of renters in Perth is harrowing. There are so many people in WA who can no longer afford to live where they need to, pushed out of their communities and their connections to schools, support networks and a place to call home. In Perth right now, the median Perth rental price of a house is $780. The vacancy rate is 0.8 per cent. We have this situation because major party politicians have left renters behind for decades, choosing to set government policies to the detriment of renters, choosing to put renters in stress, choosing to subject renters to unsafe homes and choosing to subject renters and families to packing up their homes and moving into their cars and not knowing where to turn next.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights (Children Born Alive Protection) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are those in this place who say they are all about democracy and human rights, yet they continually undermine democracy and show, in my opinion, disdain for human rights. The move tomorrow to have the Human Rights (Children Born Alive Protection) Bill 2022, co-sponsored by myself, Senator Canavan and Senator Antic, removed from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> is a case in point.</para>
<para>All this bill would have done is ensure that a baby born alive following a botched abortion is provided medical care. What type of care? Perhaps it's a warm blanket or perhaps it's pain relief. It's up for debate. At least, it would have been up to for debate. Can you imagine elected representatives who will not tolerate even a discussion on the rights of babies born alive after a botched late-term abortion? It blows my mind that any person, let alone an elected senator, would cancel or perhaps oppose a bill that guarantees a provision of medical care or perhaps comfort to a living, breathing baby.</para>
<para>There are many things that happen in this chamber that I disagree with, and there are things that happen that I just think are plain wrong. But I would never try to silence anyone's opportunity to have a debate. The move to shut down the discussion on the welfare of babies is just unconscionable. There are those in this place, like I said before, whose love of democracy, in my opinion, is self-serving and whose advocacy of human rights is entirely selective. Shame on those who don't support the born alive bill and who seek to silence discussion on the issue. What you have done is really beyond politicking. May God forgive you.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Future Fund</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to express my great concern with respect to the Labor government's intrusion into the investment decisions of the Future Fund, and, in doing so, I associate myself with the remarks of two previous chairs of the Australian Future Fund, David Murray and Peter Costello. Last week, the Labor government introduced an investment mandate that sought to interfere with the investment decisions of the Australian Future Fund. Why is this important? The Australian Future Fund currently has $229 billion under management. Those funds have been quarantined to assist to meet the unfunded superannuation liabilities of Australian public servants, which, at 30 June 2028, will equate to $332 billion. Even on the basis of current investment returns, the current size of the fund is not sufficient to cover those unfunded public servant superannuation liabilities, but the Labor government can't help itself. It's interfering with the fund, dictating to the fund how it should make investment decisions.</para>
<para>Secondly, it's acting in a way inconsistent with the Future Fund Act, which specifically says that the responsible ministers must not give a direction under section 18(1) of the act which has the effect directly or indirectly of requiring the board to make particular investments. So the investment mandate issued last week is in direct contravention of section 18A of the Future Fund Act, and yet the board of guardians, under their current leadership, are standing by and acquiescing. It's an absolute disgrace.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>E-Cigarettes and Vaping Products</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last month, Tasmania's vaping laws changed, and they now go further than federal vaping laws. The Tasmanian government says the laws passed here were watered down and didn't go far enough to protect children and young people from the harms of vaping. But what about the adult Tasmanians who are now unable to access therapeutic vapes to help them give up smoking? I don't believe in flat-out bans, and I've spoken about that a lot. Forcing people who use vapes to beat their nicotine addiction to now jump through extra hoops is backwards, and it's dangerous. It pushes people to the black market or back to legal sources of nicotine—cigarettes. Under the laws that came in on 1 October, people in Tassie can legally buy e-cigarettes, e-liquid and vaping devices only from pharmacies and only with a prescription from their doctor.</para>
<para>Let me tell you how this is working in my household. Tim, my partner, was using vapes to quit smoking. His doctor has refused to issue Tim with a script for a nicotine vape and will only give him a non-nicotine script. Tim is addicted to nicotine. He was using vapes to reduce the amount of nicotine in his body, so guess what? Tim's back on the ciggies. He's smoking again, and that's a direct result of these dangerous vaping laws introduced by the state government.</para>
<para>Tasmanian pharmacists are not happy about being told they should sell nicotine vapes if a person has a script. I don't blame them. Pharmacists want to help people get well, not supply addictive substances.</para>
<para>The point I really want to make is that these laws are not working the way they are supposed to. Instead of Tim using vapes to quit his nicotine addiction, he's now right back where he started and smoking again. That is some unintended consequence right there.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth of Australia</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I want to talk about the practice of swearing allegiance, which persists throughout so-called Commonwealth countries. When we join the parliament in this country, we are required to swear allegiance to the British Crown or so-called King. Our job is to serve the people here, yet we're asked to be accountable not to the people here but to the colonising King on the other side of the world. As First Peoples, this requirement is like kneeling to the oppressor—a continuation of the colonial practices and oppression in this country and across the world. Just a few days ago, it was reported that new members of a Canadian town council refused to take an oath for King Charles, in protest of Britain's history with First Peoples in Canada. This brought the council to a standstill, even though the new members are completely committed to serving the people that they're elected by.</para>
<para>Politicians in this place are not committed to and don't swear allegiance to the people in this country. What a farce! Politicians should be committed to working for the people here, be guided by the people here and have allegiance to the people here, rather than to someone on the other side of the world. We need to grow up as a nation—to cut the apron strings, stop swearing allegiance to a foreign colonial power and have a head of state that's from here that we can all call our own. Every politician in this place swears allegiance to a foreign power rather than to the people who live in this country. Grow up, Aus, and let's get rid of this worn-out King coloniser.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The governance of artificial intelligence poses one of the 21st century's greatest public policy challenges. AI is the wheel, the printing press and the steam engine. Everything is going to change; everything is changing. Any AI policy framework ought to safeguard Australia's cybersecurity, intellectual property rights, national security and democratic institutions without infringing on the potential opportunities that AI presents in relation to job creation and productivity.</para>
<para>As we approach the two-year anniversary of the public release of ChatGPT this week, these threats to our sovereignty have been clear and in the public domain for 24 months, yet the federal government has done absolutely nothing to deal with these threats to Australia's cybersecurity, intellectual property rights and national security across the entire two-year period. Indeed, in January this year, as part of its <inline font-style="italic">S</inline><inline font-style="italic">afe and responsible AI in Australia </inline><inline font-style="italic">consultation</inline> report, the Department of Industry, Science and Resources stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… existing laws … do not adequately prevent AI-facilitated harms before they occur, and more work is needed to ensure there is an adequate response to harms after they occur.</para></quote>
<para>This Labor government has been asleep at the wheel. There has been not one single item of legislation or serious attempt at a bipartisan approach.</para>
<para>Though reports suggest AI could create 200,000 new jobs and contribute up to $115 billion to Australia's economy, there are threats to our security and our intellectual property rights. The Labor government has neglected its responsibility to deal with any of the threats that the growth of AI poses to the Australian people and their entities.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Amazon</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The front page of this morning's <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial </inline><inline font-style="italic">Review</inline> says Amazon is now the second-largest online retailer in Australia. That should terrify anyone who cares about workplace rights, tax avoidance or general human decency in this country. Amazon's business model is to destroy the communities it operates in. Amazon destroys livelihoods by undercutting wages and forcing people into insecure work. Amazon destroys labour standards through its union-busting strategies. Amazon destroys work health and safety standards by imposing intensive work productivity targets and workplace surveillance.</para>
<para>That means drivers urinating in bottles and defecating in bags because they don't have time to have toilet breaks, female warehouse workers fired when they become pregnant, and stealing the work of thousands of Australian creatives to train AI products without consent or payment. Stop—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for two-minute statements has expired. We will move to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>42</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7239" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>McKENZIE (—) (): My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Albanese government has been forced to scrap its disastrous Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 after realising that every single non-Labor senator was going to vote against it. This followed criticism from distinguished experts like Professor Anne Twomey, who said that she was worried that your government would 'create worse problems through large-scale censorship of contested views and the undermining of democracy in the name of cleansing it from misinformation'. Can the Prime Minister promised the Australian people that he will not reintroduce this bill or any similar bill after the next election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question, although I was anticipating a cost-of-living question. I'm very happy to respond in relation to the legislation that the government did withdraw today, and I thank Senator McAllister for her handling of that. I will say three things: first, the minister issued a statement in relation to this on the weekend; second, Senator McAllister, who is the representing minister, spoke today about the issues. Obviously, the bill did not have the support of the chamber, which is why the government made the decision to withdraw it. What I would say to you, Senator McKenzie, and this is a serious question, is that our democracy is under threat and at risk from foreign interference, foreign disinformation and misinformation, including—as people might remember—Russian bots and campaigns—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on direct relevancy. Does this remain the Prime Minister's policy? Yes or no?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, you forgot the quite large preamble at the beginning of your question, which the minister is being directly relevant to.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would say to Senator McKenzie that there is a serious question about making sure our democracy is resilient in an age where misinformation and disinformation are far more prevalent. First and foremost, I am a small-d democrat, and I believe in protecting the institutions of our democracy. I would hope, Senator McKenzie, that you do too. The problem is that there are elements who wish to use the openness of our society in order to damage the democracy. The democracy does require us to ensure that we do not have misinformation and disinformation fuelling risk to who we are and to our institutions. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Greens, whom Labor gives its second preference to every single election, have said that their main reason for not voting for your bill is that your misinformation bill doesn't go far enough. Will the government rule out any deal with the Greens to reintroduce an expanded misinformation and internet censorship bill after the next election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I would say to you, Senator, that the government has withdrawn this bill. The government has made clear it is not proceeding with the bill. Senator McKenzie, if you—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, you've caused enough trouble recently; do you think it would be possible to just leave this alone? You know exactly what I mean.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister Wong please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are not proceeding with the bill, and I am advised that this includes not reintroducing this bill, but I would again say to you, Senator McKenzie—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about the Greens?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're the one voting with the Greens; why don't you ask them? You ask me about the Greens. You're the one that voted with them. Why don't you ask them what they will introduce? You've probably got more knowledge about their policy agenda than we have.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the Albanese Labor government can't or won't say whether it will pursue this bill again or if it will do a deal with the Greens following the next election, how are the thousands of Australians who oppose the bill meant to think anything other than it being a delaying tactic by Labor rather than a genuine withdrawal?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's a bit more misinformation! I just said we will not be proceeding with the bill; I just said that. I'll say it again: we are not proceeding with this bill. We will not be reintroducing this bill; that is what we have said. I would say to you is we do have to—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>After the next election?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are desperate for a scare campaign, aren't you? You really are. You don't want to listen to what I have to say. What I would say to you is there is an issue with disinformation and misinformation in our democracy, and those of us who care about democratic institutions—including the few on those sides of the chamber who do about democratic institutions—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath! Senator McKenzie!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>should work with the government on working out how we protect our democracy against disinformation and misinformation. That would be the responsible thing to do, Senator McKenzie, and I invite you to be responsible.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, before I call Senator Green, I remind you that interjections are incredibly disorderly, and, quite frankly, yelling louder than the person whose microphone is on is incredibly disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I, like all my colleagues, understand that people are under pressure and that the housing shortage is driving one of the key cost-of-living challenges that Australians face. What are the consequences of a decade of reckless neglect of housing supply in Australia by the Liberals and the Nationals, and how is the Albanese Labor government working to boost the supply of all housing to make it easier and more affordable to rent and buy, including with the $32 billion Homes for Australia Plan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese Labor government is focused on cost-of-living relief. We are working to lift wages and bring down costs. We are working by offering tax cuts and electricity bill relief. We are working to strengthen Medicare and build more homes.</para>
<para>We know Australians are under pressure and there is much more to do. But we also know that the Liberals and Nationals are out of touch with the pressure Australians are under. You know how we know that? Because those opposite block every single cost-of-living measure. Mr Dutton's feckless arrogance has real costs. His agenda is wrong for Australia, he is wrong for Australia and the Greens are not any better. We see again the Liberals and the Greens voting together to block environment reform, immigration reform and housing reform. There are two more important housing initiatives in the Senate we are all aware of that the Liberals and the Greens are voting together to block—Help to Buy, a shared-equity scheme to help more Australians get into the market, and Build to Rent, which will build tens of thousands of new rental homes in the country.</para>
<para>The government has already invested $32 billion in addressing Australia's housing shortage—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How's that going?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>including helping 120,000 people into their first home sooner, Senator Ruston. We have announced 13,700 social and affordable homes from the first round of the Housing Australia Future Fund. We have increased the maximum rent assistance by more than 40 per cent since coming to government and given the biggest boost to rent assistance—which, Senator Ruston, as the former social services minister, you never achieved—in 30 years. And we have an ambition target of seeing 1.2 million homes built over five years. There is so much more to do. Friends, we're building and they're blocking. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. In my home state of Queensland, what work is the Albanese Labor government doing to deliver more social and affordable homes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has made important progress in helping Queenslanders who are trying to rent or buy. Through the Housing Australia Future Fund, we're funding 1,315 new dwellings in Queensland in the first round alone. There's some $860 million in funding for new homes. Through other initiatives, we are also working to boost supply across the state. This includes 490 social and affordable homes in Cairns; 126 social and affordable homes in Chermside; another 82 new homes in Redcliffe; 81 new social and affordable homes in Woolloongabba; 50 social housing rentals and 32 affordable homes in Stones Corner, Brisbane; 75 new homes in Toowoomba, with 25 social housing rentals and 25 affordable homes; 158 new homes in Southport; 38 social housing rentals in Lutwyche; and 42 in Windsor. I'm sure that those opposite will be very pleased to know about the new housing availability in Queensland. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, is it true that the Albanese Labor government delivered more support for building new homes in just our last budget than in the entire nine years the Liberals and Nationals were in power?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): Senator Green, yes, I regret to say that that's true. In one budget, there was more funding than in the nine years of the coalition government. When you hear them yelling—and I see that they're quiet now—when Senator Cash, Senator Ruston, Senator Birmingham and others start shouting about housing, remember that in nine years they had less to do, less to say and less to contribute than we did in one budget. Mr Dutton's reckless arrogance has real costs. And now, in the middle of a housing crisis, Mr Dutton wants to cut $19 billion from housing. That is what he wants to do. He wants to cut $19 billion out of housing. Mr Dutton's agenda is wrong for the country and wrong for Australians. He wants to cut $10 billion from the Housing Australia Future Fund, $5½ billion from Help to Buy and $3 billion from the new homes bonus. This is what Mr Dutton wants to do while he complains about housing affordability. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. American President Joe Biden described the decision of the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The ICC issuance of arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous. Let me be clear once again: whatever the ICC might imply, there is no equivalence—none—between Israel and Hamas. We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security.</para></quote>
<para>Does the Prime Minister agree with our ally President Biden's very strong stance in support of our other democratic ally, Israel?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You've heard me say many times in this place, Senator Cash, that there is no equivalence between Hamas, a terrorist organisation, and the elected Israeli government. In relation to the International Criminal Court, Australia respects the independence of the International Criminal Court and its important role in upholding international law, as I have—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the interjection from the shadow Attorney-General. She says, 'Right.' Unlike you, we actually believe—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am answering the question. We actually believe that adherence to international law is a matter of principle and is in Australia's interests. What I would say to you is that I have made clear many times in this place that all parties to the conflict must comply within international law, and I again say that we respect the independence of the International Criminal Court and its important role in upholding international law.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In contrast to President Biden, Albanese government minister Ed Husic said the ICC 'was doing its job by issuing the arrest warrant for Mr Netanyahu'. Does the Prime Minister back the US President's view that the arrest warrant was outrageous or the view of Minister Husic?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Excuse me! Order! The interjections between Senator Whish-Wilson and Senator McKenzie will stop. They should have stopped when I said 'Order!' the first time, not the third time. I expect silence when the minister responds. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First, in relation to the United States, the United States is not a party to the Rome statute. The Rome statute, which established, or gives effect to, the International Criminal Court was, in fact, ratified by the Howard government in 2002. Since Mr Howard ratified the Rome statute we have as a country respected the International Criminal Court. This is because it is in our interests as a nation for international law to be upheld. So I would again say to you, Senator, that our position is that we respect the independence of the international court and its important role in upholding international law.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, I believe that I am managing the chamber, not you. Your interjection was, again, unhelpful. Senator Cash, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, is it the intent of the Albanese government to execute any arrest warrant issued by the ICC?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I certainly don't propose to speculate on hypotheticals. What I can say to the chamber is that Australia will act consistently with our obligations under international law, and our approach will be informed by international law, not by politics.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the Minister for Social Services, Minister Farrell. Every week in Australia women and children suffer at the hands of men. According to volunteer organisation Counting Dead Women, 66 women have been killed so far this year. We know this is a problem for men to fix. We know that 95 per cent of perpetrators are men. As a male minister of the Albanese government, what are you and all of your male cabinet colleagues personally doing to drive down the rates of violence and change cultural and behavioural attitudes amongst men?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Waters, for raising an important issue. The short answer is: everything we can—everything I can do as an individual, as a man, as a member of the Labor Party, as a minister and as a father of three daughters, with one granddaughter and a wife. I will do everything I can, Senator Waters.</para>
<para>I believe as a government we take this issue very, very seriously. Family and domestic violence is a very terrible scourge on our society. One death is one death too many in this space. As a government and to a man we completely reject domestic violence. We have to act, I think, as a community to try and resolve this terrible, terrible issue. It's not an easy issue to resolve, Senator Waters. I think I would speak for every male standing behind me that we all want to see an end to this scourge that is domestic violence. As a government we're, of course, investing in a whole range of programs that are designed to try and reduce the impact of domestic violence, and I know the minister— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There have been 12 First Nations women killed just since June. Eight of those women were in the Northern Territory. The government is late in responding to the missing and murdered First Nations women and children inquiry recommendations, which went to making police interactions more culturally safe and centring the voices of First Nations women to shape solutions and collect better data. Will you implement these recommendations in full, and when?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Waters, for your first supplementary question. Of course, we work very assuredly in this space. I work with Senator McCarthy to ensure that we address all of these issues. Again, I make the point, like it or not, that these are difficult issues to resolve. They're difficult issues to resolve quickly. What we have tried to do as a government, whatever the issue might have been, is to take practical action, practical steps, to make life better in this space. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The women's safety sector has long called for $1 billion per year to meet demand for frontline services so that they have the resourcing to help everyone who reaches out for help. Will the government finally commit at least $1 billion per year to address the epidemic of men's violence against women with the urgency that it requires?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Waters for her second supplementary question. The government, of course, has committed $7.7 billion in funding for gender based violence and legal assistance over our 2½ years in government. This is on top of almost $2 billion to expand the single parent payment, which provides critical financial support for women and children escaping violence and over $10 billion to expand social and affordable housing and crisis accommodation, which we know is crucial so that women have a place to go. Funding for frontline services have traditionally been the responsibility of the states and territories, but, at National Cabinet, we extended our funding for the national partnership agreement to provide long-term funding certainty for frontline services and leverage hundreds of millions in— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. The Albanese Labor government is strengthening the economy and delivering cost-of-living relief for all Australians. We have delivered tax cuts, energy bill relief, urgent care clinics, cheaper medicines and university debt relief, whilst the Liberals and Nationals have rejected every cost-of-living measure we have put forward. What have the minister and the Treasurer done to provide responsible cost-of-living relief that does not add to the inflation challenge in the economy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Walsh for that question and for the focus on cost-of-living measures that the government has been putting in place over the last 2½ years. This is the government that has been working hard to get wages up and inflation down. We're strengthening Medicare and building more houses, and we can make reforms such as these because we're focused on building a stronger economy. Back-to-back surpluses and lower government debt are important indicators that we are on the right track. We're focused on reducing inflation—it's halved since we came to government—with cost-of-living policies, such as energy-bill relief, driving inflation down. We're focused on job creation, with one million jobs created in this term of parliament alone, more than any other term of parliament.</para>
<para>Not only do we want more people in jobs but we want them to earn a decent wage. There's certainly more to do, but wages are heading in the right direction with four quarters of wages growth after years of coalition wage stagnation. We've advocated for wages growth at every opportunity, and we've prioritised pay rises for aged-care workers and early childhood educators who had been underpaid and undervalued for way too long. We want people to earn more and keep more of what they earn, as this is the best form of cost-of-living relief. We have record levels of people working. We have record levels of women working, and the pay gap is as narrow as it's ever been. Manufacturing jobs are up. Industrial disputes are down, and the number of small businesses is up. We know there is more work to do, and we know that life is tough for many Australians right now.</para>
<para>That's why the Albanese Labor government has been focused on how to make appropriate investments in areas like Medicare, cheaper medicines and urgent care clinics to make sure that people are getting access to the services they need right now.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. Central to our economic plan has been the Albanese Labor government's determination to get wages increasing. We've seen some good progress already, but, after a decade of wage stagnation, there is more to do. Why is it so important to get wages moving again?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We on this side of the chamber, the Australian Labor Party, always care about the workers, the conditions they work under and the wages they work under. And those opposite—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We can hear them start squealing now—squirming and squealing—because of their policy, which was: how do we stop working people from getting proper wages? That was their economic policy. That is in stark contrast to our economic policy, which is that good, secure jobs with good wage growth matter to the economy, and it matters to working people. So, for aged care workers, what happened in the previous decade? Nothing. We didn't see a role for government to support wages growth of a highly feminised, underpaid part of the economy. That's why this government has prioritised leaning in, arguing for wage increases for the minimum wage workers and for those essential workers in our economy.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. As the Albanese Labor government continues to focus on helping with cost-of-living pressures, the Liberals and Nationals recklessly vote against cost-of-living relief at every opportunity. What challenges has the government faced in delivering cost-of-living relief for all Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hear that they don't like the word 'reckless', but their voting record in this chamber has been reckless. It paints a picture of what would happen were they to be on this side of the chamber again. We know the risk involved. They've been reckless. Remember, they wanted to go to an election over the tax cuts for every taxpayer in the country. That was so terrible they wanted to call an election. They've argued against higher minimum wages. They've argued against the IR reforms. They've argued against pay rises for aged care workers. And cheaper medicines—who would have thought you could actually argue against cheaper medicines? But this group found a way to do it. There are urgent care clinics and 24-hour nurses in aged care. There's the tripling of the bulk-billing incentive. There's the energy price relief plan. You're coming in here complaining about energy prices but then voting against energy bill relief. Of course, they voted on everything to do with housing and fee-free TAFE, if you can believe that. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator McAllister, and is regarding the United Nations Conference of the Parties, COP29. Minister, COP29 marks 29 years of climate action. After 29 years, it must be starting to work. As a result of the measures implemented via COP agreements, how much have world temperatures been reduced?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>McALLISTER (—) (): We should acknowledge that, in asking this question, Senator Roberts of course starts from the premise that climate change is not real, is not caused by humans and is not a problem that requires us to deal with it in any way. These are the positions he has put repeatedly—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator Roberts, please go ahead.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't need a dissertation on myself; I'm asking about temperatures.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Roberts. I'll listen to the minister's answers, but she has been answering your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, the starting point for Senator Roberts's question, as he has made very clear over his long period in this place, is that he does not believe in the science of climate change, he does not believe that that science has been demonstrated and he does not believe that there needs to be—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator Hanson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I question Senator McAllister's response—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is it a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it is a point of order. She's repudiating Senator Roberts's character in her response—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, that is a debating point. Please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's passing strange to be asked about the effectiveness of climate action because I don't believe that Senator Roberts actually wishes it to be successful.</para>
<para>However, I will say this. At COP28, the information that delegates received was that the projections had been for a four-degree increase in temperature and that that had been reduced to three degrees based on the actions that had been taken by states to date. Three-degree average global warming is actually a very troubling number. It offers very disturbing consequences for many Australians, including Australians in your home state, Senator Roberts. There is a heatwave warning in place today for the peninsula region of Queensland, and there are flooding warnings in Queensland. All of the advice before us suggests that the extreme weather events that Queenslanders are exposed to are only going to increase as a consequence of a warming climate.</para>
<para>It is in Australia's interests for there to be effective global action to contain warming. That's why we are— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister seems unaware that Queensland had bigger floods in the 19th century. How many people did the Australian government send to UN's COP29? For clarity—just those your government paid for and the cost of that all up, please, including travel, accommodation, wages and expenses.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I think the senator will know from when previous questions of this kind have been asked at estimates, the complete costs associated with travel to events such as these, multilateral forums, generally are not available until sometime after the travel has been completed.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The communique from COP29, released overnight, announced that developed nations will ramp up annual payments to be paying $300 billion annually by 2035, supposedly to meet the costs of transitioning developing nations, including India, with payment being a combination of public and private money, loans and grants. Media reports suggest Australia's share is $8 billion. I don't see a government statement to that effect. Minister, how much taxpayer money will be sent overseas as grants to discharge our obligation under the agreement made at COP29?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia does welcome the outcome at COP29, in Baku, to agree a new finance goal to support developing countries. This goal was incredibly hard fought. It is not everything that everyone wanted. In fact, people wanted a range of outcomes, and there was, as there always is in such forums, a compromise. But it is an important step to support emissions reduction and development goals around the world.</para>
<para>We are proud be to be back as a constructive actor on the world stage. It safeguards our national security. Our goal is to accelerate our transformation—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Order! Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, I've called order three times. I've called you to order, and you've completely ignored me. Your interjections have completely drowned out the minister. Listen in silence, or I invite you to leave the chamber. Minister McAllister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I've frequently said to Senator Roberts and others in this chamber, it is in our interests as a nation for there to be effective action to limit global warming. I will say we are now cleaning up the mess left that was left by 10 years of the Liberals and Nationals making a mockery of our— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Business</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, last week, in response to a question from Senator Canavan, you disputed recent ASIC figures which indicate insolvency rates in Australia are at a record high. You stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… what we're seeing at the moment is not at a historical high.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm just putting some facts on the table.</para></quote>
<para>Minister, unfortunately the facts show that the average number of business insolvencies per quarter is the highest of any government since records began in 1999. The Albanese government has managed to drive more businesses into the ground per quarter than even Julia Gillard or Kevin Rudd did in the GFC. This comes on top of the latest monthly data, which shows Labor has now broken its previous September record for the highest number of business insolvencies in a single month, rising to more than 1,300 in October. Minister, will you apologise for misleading the Senate and, more importantly, to those Australian businesses hitting the wall, for whom you've said, apparently, 'It could be worse', even though that's not true?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I did not say, 'It could be worse', so don't verbal me.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I did not say the language that you used, as much as you'd like to argue that.</para>
<para>I did acknowledge that some businesses are becoming insolvent and that it's a really difficult time for many businesses. I also made the point that we've seen many new small businesses start in the same period. The point I was making was that corporate insolvencies as a proportion of total companies stood at 0.37 per cent for the period from November 2023 to October 2024. This rate is lower than the long-term historical average of 0.42 per cent—that's the point I was making last week; that was data from November 2001 until October 2023—and the pre-COVID average of 0.46 per cent. That is the point I was making, so my answer to Senator Canavan was correct. It remains higher than the COVID period averages, when a lot of companies were supported by taxpayer support during that time—and for good reason.</para>
<para>I went on to make the point that the Albanese Labor government have been working hard to make sure we are investing and supporting small business where we can. We've done that with energy bill rebates. We had a bit of a stand-off here about the instant asset write-off, but small businesses tell me that that is an important tax measure for them. We will continue to support small business. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The recent COSBOA <inline font-style="italic">Small </inline><inline font-style="italic">b</inline><inline font-style="italic">usiness </inline><inline font-style="italic">p</inline><inline font-style="italic">erspective</inline><inline font-style="italic">s r</inline><inline font-style="italic">eport</inline> revealed that surging operating costs have crunched margins, with 46 per cent of businesses experiencing increased expenses and 57 per cent of small-business owners reporting high stress due to financial strain, with one-third not paying themselves due to cashflow issues. With a record number of small businesses hitting the wall, what's it going to take for your government to acknowledge that your plan isn't working and is hurting?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I made clear in the last answer that in our budgets we have been looking at what we can do to support small business, including by providing energy bill rebates—something that small businesses have argued for. There are our investments in cyber wardens programs, which, again, is an area small businesses have argued for. We've got the $20,000 instant asset write-off. I draw attention to the fact that we had 2.6 million small businesses in the June quarter—which is up on the number of small businesses from when we came to government, which was 2.44 million.</para>
<para>I'm not disputing some businesses are finding it tough right now, which is why the government and the minister, Minister Collins, have been so focused on responding to those areas of need. I would say the worst thing for small business would be a $315 billion cut to the federal budget, which would force them into even more difficult times. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Actually, in the same COSBOA report, small businesses reported the worst thing for them was rising energy costs followed by increasing costs of doing business, inflation and the impact of interest rate increases.</para>
<para>Prior to the last election, Mr Albanese promised cheaper mortgages and cheaper energy bills and promised not to touch multi-employer bargaining. Does the government accept any responsibility for the fact that its broken promises are what are truly hurting Australian businesses?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would draw the Leader of the Opposition's attention to the statistics that I read out earlier. Whilst those opposite would like to paint the bleakest possible picture, I think it is important to look at the numbers as they stand and as they compare to previous records. In terms of energy bill rebates—we brought it in, and you opposed it. You come in here and you complain about small-business energy costs, and then, in the same breath, you oppose providing that support. And then you go and complain about government spending when that spending is targeted to helping small businesses with some of their costs. You threatened to cut it. The worst possible thing that could happen to the economy and to small businesses, who rely on a strong economy to ensure customers and growth, is the $315 billion worth of cuts that Peter Dutton and his colleagues are arguing for.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gambling Advertising</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The parliamentary inquiry led by the late Peta Murphy reported 18 months ago, and yet the government has failed to implement the unanimous recommendations of that committee. When I say 'unanimous', I mean 'bipartisan', 'tripartisan' and every one in-between. Does the government agree that gambling ads cause harm and fuel addiction, and, if so, why have you delayed action again?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, I would make a few points. The first is that the government has done more in the last couple of years to tackle gambling harm than those opposite did for nine years. We made it clear that the status quo is untenable and have been focused on addressing three key priorities: minimising children's exposure to wagering advertising; breaking the connection between wagering and sport; and reducing the saturation and targeting of wagering advertising. We've delivered significant online-wagering harm reduction initiatives, including: verification for online wagering; banning the use of credit cards for online wagering; forcing companies to send their customers monthly activity statements outlining wins and losses; introducing new evidence based taglines in wagering advertising; providing direct funding for specialist financial counselling to support people affected by problem gambling; introducing nationally consistent staff training and new minimum classifications for video games with gambling-like content, which will go live shortly; and launching BetStop, the national self-exclusion register, which has been used by more than 32,000 Australians. So there is a lot of action that has been undertaken, and obviously there is more to do.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Government announced yesterday that it wouldn't be moving ahead with the ban on gambling advertising this year. That is the single most important thing you can do to stop and minimise the harm that gambling is doing to families. You're tinkering around the edges unless you ban the ads. When will you get on and do it? Are you going to do it this side of the election or not?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The senator really answered her own question with the opening, which is that the government has a very full agenda for these next four days of the parliament, and the government is focused on making sure that we pass the legislation which is before the parliament. Obviously, this is not one of the reforms that are currently before the parliament.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the government rule out taking donations or having any more dinners, lunches and birthday celebrations with the gambling lobby before it acts on banning the ads?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, I'm sure you are aware that that question is not Senator Wong's ministerial responsibility. However, I will give the minister an opportunity to answer in whatever way she thinks fit.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't know who's having birthday celebrations, but I can tell you I don't think having birthday celebrations with lobbyists would be most people's idea of fun, to be honest with you, with all due respect for everybody. What I would say is that, in relation to donation reform, Senator Farrell has worked tirelessly across the parliament on this, and I'd invite Senator Hanson-Young to support the legislation in the parliament which deals with donation reform.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Watt. Going into Christmas, cost-of-living pressures are front of mind for all Australians as they budget for gifts and plan their festive meals. What is the Albanese Labor government doing to help Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn this festive season?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Sheldon. With now one month, exactly, until Christmas, many Australians are turning their minds to their Christmas budgets—presents for the kids, travel costs to see loved ones, a Christmas ham, maybe even a few prawns for lunch—and the costs of getting together for Christmas can certainly add up. We understand that this Christmas will be tough for many Australians, even after the cost-of-living relief our government has provided and even after all of that was opposed by the opposition. Our government's economic plan is all about helping people with their cost of living, while fighting inflation.</para>
<para>Just as we're focusing on bringing costs down, we've also worked hard to get wages up. I'm pleased to say that, ahead of the final pay cycles of the year, before the festive shopping season officially begins, Australians' wages are again higher due to strong action taken by the Albanese government. New figures show that this festive season the average Australian is now earning a six-figure salary, at more than $103,000—an increase of $8,372 per year, or $159 per week, since the election of the Albanese government.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm surprised to hear the opposition so unhappy that Australians are earning higher wages, although I guess I shouldn't be surprised, because you've always opposed higher wages—and it would seem that you still do.</para>
<para>Along with delivering a tax cut for every Australian worker, the Albanese government has changed the law on a range of issues that were stifling wage growth under the coalition—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>including our same job, same pay laws, getting tough on wage theft, pay rises for aged-care workers and early childhood educators, and three above-inflation increases to the national minimum wage. The result has seen wage increases recorded for both minimum-wage and award-wage workers in recent months.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Real disposable income is going backwards, mate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, Senator Hume, we'll get to you in the supplementary about what you think about wage rises. Just hold your horses. There are plenty of quotes to come, especially from Senator Hughes, when it comes to wages and helping working people.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that Mr Dutton and the Liberals believe wage increases would be 'the worst thing for Australians'. What is the Albanese Labor government doing to support Australians into well-paid, secure work, and why is this so important?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, well, that's right, Senator Sheldon: Peter Dutton's shadow finance minister, Senator Hume, said that wage increases would be 'the worst thing for Australians'. How in touch the Liberals are with Australians out there! As cost-of-living pressures hit working Australians, it's vital that wages stay ahead of inflation, and that's why the Albanese government has been so focused on getting wages moving again after 10 years of coalition wage stagnation.</para>
<para>You would think that at a time when Australians were doing it tough all political parties would support increasing wages, but, weirdly, Peter Dutton and the coalition have tried to block every single cost-of-living measure this year. They've also tried to block every step we've taken to improve wages. Now Mr Dutton and the coalition are recklessly promising to cut pay and conditions for millions of Australian workers. They've promised to cut casual rights, cut the right to disconnect, cut same job, same pay and cut multi-employer bargaining, and they're considering making it easier to sack workers as well. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I do remind you—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The people out there don't believe you, Murray. They're coming for you.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister, I do remind you to refer to people in the other house by their correct title. Senator McGrath, I invite you to make a contribution at some other point, not question time. Senator Sheldon, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that Mr Dutton and the Liberals have proudly stated, 'On the coalition side of the chamber we always stand with the employers of Australia.' Going into the festive season, what is the Albanese Labor government doing to stand with Australian workers and families to put more money in their pockets, and what are the key barriers to achieving this?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Sheldon. While the Liberals and Nationals may say that they always stand with the employers of Australia, the Labor Party supports cooperative workplaces where both employers and workers win. Right now, due to our workplace changes—opposed by Mr Dutton—wages are up, jobs are up, inflation is down and industrial action is down.</para>
<para>Mr Dutton's reckless opposition to our workplace changes only hurts Australians who are doing it tough. At every turn an arrogant Mr Dutton wants to put his hand in your pocket and rip out thousands of dollars. He wants to recklessly cut your pay. He wants to take away your tax cuts. He wants you to pay more for essential things like medicine, power and child care. Mr Dutton is the grinch who wants to steal Christmas from every Australian worker. If Mr Dutton had been in power over the past two years, the average Australian household would be $7,600 worse off. Mr Dutton just doesn't add up for working people. When Australians are under pressure, Peter Dutton will make things worse. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator McAllister. Last week you stated that, without Labor's temporary, one-off energy bill subsidy, electricity prices would have risen by 15.4 per cent since June 2023. Minister, can you please clarify how much electricity prices will rise once this one-off subsidy ends just after the election.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Energy prices are a serious issue for households, and they're a serious issue for businesses. Our No. 1 priority is delivering cost-of-living relief for households and businesses, including through the support that we're providing for energy bills. People are doing it tough, but we are seeing green shoots, and, as you've indicated in your question to me, there is some indication that we are seeing electricity prices fall. The challenge is, of course, that those on the other side voted against that energy price relief. They voted against it, and they want to wind back those rebates that are going out at the moment to Australian families and to Australian businesses. Their plan would actually mean higher power prices.</para>
<para>I think the most interesting thing, of course, when you're asked about price, is that our plan for the electricity system is long term and is to ensure that we are making investments in the cheapest form of new generation that there is, and that is firmed renewables. The opposite, of course, is an utterly reckless plan to invest in the most expensive form of energy that—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister McAllister, please resume your seat. Senator Duniam?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Duniam</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on relevance: I asked about how much power prices are going to be going up after the subsidy comes off, not about all the other extraneous matters.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister talked about energy prices, and the minister is being relevant to your question.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! Minister McAllister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>When we talk about the future of the energy system, the truth is that the plan that is being promulgated by those opposite is for the most expensive form of energy that there is, to be delivered in more than a decade's time, well after it is required. Independent analysis suggests that that could add at least $1,200 to the average bill for a four-person household. It would deliver less than four per cent of the energy that we actually require. It won't be delivered until 2040, according to CSIRO, and it could cost $600 billion—a source of funding for which has yet to be provided by a coalition that is advocating for a scheme that is uncosted, unspecified and will occur on some unknown timetable.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given electricity prices are being artificially suppressed by 15.4 per cent, according to your estimates, they're likely to go up by at least that much or more over the 12 months from June 2024 when your subsidy comes to an end. Will the government make taxpayers foot the bill by extending its payments for another year, at a cost of $3.5 billion, or will electricity users foot the bill directly instead?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will continue to do everything that we responsibly can to help households and businesses at a time that we acknowledge is genuinely difficult for many, many people. It's been our singular focus over the course of this year and, indeed, the year before—making sure that households and businesses are supported by delivering cost-of-living relief and that little bit of extra support, all of which you have opposed. It doesn't matter whether it's cheaper medicines, cheaper child care, higher wages, energy bill relief or tax cuts. All of those things have been met with opposition by those opposite. So, when people talk to us about prices and about the future and about the cost of living, there is only one group of people in this chamber who have consistently and persistently sought to deal with the challenges that Australians are facing, and it's the people on this side of the chamber. Everybody sitting over there can go to an election or go into the next year understanding that they have done very, very little indeed to help. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the Prime Minister sold an energy plan to Australians at the last election in which he promised 97 times that Labor's plans would cut at least $275 off household energy bills by 2025—about 20 per cent, at that time, of an average bill in Sydney. What's your message to those households who are now paying 10 per cent more in real terms since 2022 and whose only bill relief is delivered via a one-off subsidy at the expense of rate cuts instead of the better energy system they were promised by you?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am asked about the energy system and I'm asked about the future of the energy system, and it's a curious line of questioning from a group of people whose proposition is that they will deliver the most expensive form of energy available in a decade's time. And it's curious, too, to reflect on the actual record, because what was the approach taken by those opposite over the decade that they were in power? It was to sweat coal assets, and what did that produce? It produced four gigawatts of dispatchable power leaving the system over the period. It produced 24 coal-fired power stations bringing forward or announcing their closure dates, and not a thing was done about it. Do you know what their plan is for the next decade? It's to do exactly the same thing—just sweat those assets, people, and you'll get exactly the same result that you got the last time you tried it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Services</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories, Senator McCarthy. Despite what those opposite might think, our regions are more than just a grant program. How's the Albanese Labor government working to improve the lives of people in the regions?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order across the chamber! Senator McKenzie, which part of me calling order did not apply to you?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator O'Neill for the question. From day one the Albanese Labor government has been getting on with the job of delivering for regional Australia. We've delivered on our commitment to restore integrity and transparency in our regional grant programs, because now every community, regardless of their postcode, can apply—the $600 million Growing Regions Program, the $400 million Regional Precincts and Partnerships Program and more.</para>
<para>As someone who drives for hours across the Northern Territory, I know how important it is to improve the safety of our regional roads. We're progressively doubling the Roads to Recovery Program over the next five years to $1 billion annually. In the senator's home state of New South Wales, this means that councils will be receiving $1.2 billion over the next five years, a $461 million increase. We're also increasing the road Black Spot Program from $110 million to $150 million per year, meaning more money for improving some of the most dangerous sections of our roads. We have launched the new Safer Local Roads and Infrastructure Program, with $200 million available each year, a $50 million boost. And we have delivered an additional $250 million to regional councils through phase 4 of the Local Roads and Community Infrastructure Program.</para>
<para>We know on this side of the chamber how important connectivity is in our regions, which is why we have made a record investment. We're delivering a further $2.4 billion to expand NBN full fibre to an additional 1.5 million premises around Australia, 660,000 of those being in the regions.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that fulsome account—but it's not only road and community infrastructure which is so essential to our regional areas; it's access to services. What is the Albanese Labor government doing to boost service delivery in the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator. Yes, we on this side of the chamber understand that regional development isn't just about investing in our roads or infrastructure; it's also about investing in our people and enhancing service delivery. When we came to office, people in regional towns couldn't get in to see their local GP. After a decade of neglect, we know we can't fix this overnight, but we're getting on with the job. Our landmark investments to strengthen Medicare have seen an additional 2.2 million bulk-billed visits in regional and rural areas since November last year. Would you like me to repeat that? That's a pretty significant number.</para>
<para>A government senator: Yes, repeat it.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's 2.2 million bulk-billed visits in regional and rural areas since November last year. We are getting more doctors where we need them most by waiving HECS fees for health practitioners— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our regions need to attract and retain skilled workers to ensure they can continue to deliver these important services—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, please resume your seat. The senator is entitled to make her—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston! Your disorderly conduct during question time today is setting new records. I invite you to either listen in silence or leave the chamber. Senator O'Neill will put her question in silence. Please continue, Senator O'Neill.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And it is important to talk about the regions and to listen to the answers. Our regions need to retain skilled workers to ensure they can—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill, please resume your seat. I would have thought, and I think that was you, Senator McKenzie, but apologies—Senator Henderson.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order on my right! I would have thought, Senator Henderson, if you heard me calling one senator to account, you might work out that that really does apply to all senators, including you. Senator O'Neill, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll try again, for a third time, to stand up for people in the regions against those opposite. Our regions need to attract and retain skilled workers to ensure they can continue to deliver these services— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd request that Senator O'Neill be allowed to repeat her question, given how much she was interjected upon by the opposition.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill, I'm going to invite you to complete the question from the point you got to. You have a clear voice, so I was able to follow, but the interjections were disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So, Minister, what is the Albanese Labor government doing to allow people to stay and train in our regional towns?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We want people to train at home and continue working locally, because you shouldn't have to leave home to build your career. We are bringing university closer to students living in the regions, investing in 20 more regional university hubs. Our fee-free TAFE has already supported over 500,000 people nationally, including over 127,000 in our regions. That's why we will make fee-free TAFE permanent. Just because you're getting it for free doesn't mean you don't value it, unlike what those opposite might think. To attract and retain the workers of our communities, we need to build more housing.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You don't care about the regions. You obviously don't want to hear about them. You never want to know about any success in the regions—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Order!</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! I would like silence for the next eight seconds. Minister McCarthy, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To attract and retain the workers our communities need, we are building more housing—$32 billion in housing initiatives to help Australians to build, rent and buy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the answers to all coalition questions during the course of question time. Let me say this: what a great honour it is to kick this off on the very day that the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 died in the Australian parliament, after thousands and thousands of Australians contacted their senators and local representatives and said, 'Kill the bill.' Well, the bill is dead; however, the answers given by Senator Wong to Senator McKenzie's questions did not instil confidence that the bill will not make a reappearance in some guise sometime in the future.</para>
<para>I appreciate that Senator Wong wasn't the responsible minister for this absolute debacle. It was the Minister for Communications. I went back and read the minister's statement yesterday, when she withdrew the bill from today's <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> today, and this is what the minister said: 'It is clear there is no pathway to legislate this proposal through the Senate.' That's what the minister said. Does that give anyone confidence that the Labor government have had some sort of Damascene conversion and have decided to stand up for freedom of speech in this country? Does it give anyone any confidence that they've actually listened to the thousands of Australians who made submissions, saying they did not want this piece of legislation? No—absolutely not.</para>
<para>The only reason they've withdrawn this legislation is that they didn't have the votes. They haven't changed their philosophical position. They haven't changed their position that ACMA, a government agency—which should be known as the 'Ministry of Truth' under this proposal—should have a role in telling us what is misinformation or disinformation. They haven't changed their philosophical position on this at all. The only thing that has changed is that they don't have the votes, and the Minister for Communications made that very clear in the statement she issued yesterday. I'll repeat it: 'It is clear there is no pathway to legislate this proposal through the Senate.' There's not a single piece of recognition that thousands upon thousands of Australians wrote to their representatives and said they didn't want this bill.</para>
<para>This bill represented an attack on the free speech of all Australians. It represented giving a government agency, ACMA, the power to decide what was misinformation or disinformation, as opposed to all Australians having the freedom to make that judgement in the battleground of ideas. That's what this bill sought to do. It was an intrusion on freedom of speech in this country, and, along the way, it had some absolutely outrageous provisions.</para>
<para>Firstly, the communications minister could have personally ordered misinformation investigations and misinformation hearings on terms of her own choosing. The Minister for Communications would have become the commissar of free speech, deciding what was and wasn't legitimate free speech. She would have been able to order investigations—show trials—into what was or wasn't free speech. Secondly, if people didn't cooperate with the public hearings ordered by the minister, they could have faced jail for up to one year—absolutely extraordinary stuff buried in the provisions of this awful piece of legislation, which died a legislative death today. Thirdly, religious groups and faith based groups were concerned that the bill would have impinged upon freedom of religion. They were concerned the bill would have empowered digital platforms and government bureaucrats to determine whether or not a religious belief was 'reasonable'—again, overstepping the mark in terms of legitimate activity of the Australian government.</para>
<para>I say to all of those thousands of Australians who wrote to their federal representatives and senators: you made a profound difference in relation to this bill dying a legislative death today.</para>
<para>I also repeat what I said to many of you in response: if this bill ever makes a reappearance, I will oppose this bill, I will vote against this bill and I will always speak out against this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too want to refer to death, but I want to refer to three deaths that happened as a result of mis- and disinformation. Constable Matthew Arnold was 26 when he died alongside Constable Rachel McCrow, who was 29 years of age. Constable Keely Brough and Constable Randall Kirk survived an attack on them, but Alan Dare, the neighbour of a person who was absolutely influenced by mis- and disinformation, also lost his life that day.</para>
<para>What we've seen from Mr Dutton, in the aftermath of the Wieambilla shootings, in the state that he purports to represent, is this statement:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the spread of disinformation on the internet and the way in which that infects people's minds and … contributes at least to them committing extreme acts should be of concern to any right-thinking Australian.</para></quote>
<para>Yet what we've seen is opposition to the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, which would have combatted dangerous conspiracy theories. Senator Scarr has indicated accurately that there is not sufficient support here in this chamber for this particular disinformation and misinformation bill to go through. But the reality of disinformation and misinformation in the community continues.</para>
<para>We saw, in the aftermath of the Bondi and Wakeley stabbings, Sussan Ley talk tough, saying Elon Musk's approach was a 'free-for-all' and that X should be forced to obey Australian laws. But the problem of misinformation and disinformation continues on X because we haven't been able to find a path forward here in the Senate. In fact, I think efforts to find a path forward together dissolved the minute that the Leader of the Opposition, in an arrogant and reckless move, determined that he should just get rid of this bill instead of work to make it an effective piece of legislation to prevent the spread of the kind of disinformation that cost the lives of those wonderful community minded public servants, the police, who went to attend to a welfare check on the Trains.</para>
<para>In the inquest following that terrible consequence of misinformation and disinformation, a specialist from the emergency response team made a statement about the experience, on arrival, of finding people so paranoid and so jacked up on conspiracy and information that was absolutely inaccurate. This was how it was described:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It was like nothing I've ever seen … they were almost robotic, no gestures, no yelling out.</para></quote>
<para>Dr Andrew Aboud, a forensic psychiatrist, went to evidence about was happening behind the scenes that led to the deaths of constables serving their nation, because of misinformation and disinformation. The digital footprint revealed the extent of the delusions of Nathaniel, Gareth and Stacey Train, and there were four areas of major concern. Gareth Train, in particular, focused on conspiracy theories. They are just one source of misinformation and disinformation, and, certainly, this bill is not going to go through today and is not going to be re-introduced, but the problem is not going to go away. Gareth Train had a belief that he was being monitored by government agencies, and he was led to believe, through deep immersion in disinformation and misinformation, that police were state actors, devils and demons.</para>
<para>That is why we saw him take that devastating action. He even believed that neurological bioweapons were being manipulated that would turn humans into nonhumans. That is the sort of mis- and disinformation that remains a problem for Australia to deal with. This legislation is not going to advance but the problem remains.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We heard Senator Birmingham ask Senator Gallagher earlier about the insolvency rates in Australia being at record highs, and mentioning that when she was questioned about this last week she said, on a number of occasions, 'The facts don't support that.' Well, let's look at the facts. The insolvency rates in Australia right now are 25 per cent higher than they were prior to the pandemic. The rate in October was 5.04 per cent, which means one in 20 businesses are failing. In the construction sector it's higher—5.3 per cent—and in the hospitality sector it's 8.5 per cent. CreditorWatch expects this rate to get worse; it expects business conditions to continue to deteriorate. The chief executive officer of the Council of Small Business Organisations Australia—COSBOA—aid in their 2024 small-business perspectives report said that small businesses are under colossal pressure. But we heard from Senator Gallagher that the facts don't support that.</para>
<para>Small businesses—and the COSBOA report makes this clear—are grappling with increasing costs in energy, increasing costs in rent, increasing costs in insurance, higher interest rates, and complex industrial relations changes. That is a perfect storm putting small businesses under colossal pressure. Let's look at each of those in turn. Electricity prices are up 30 per cent since the election if we ignore the government's one-off rebates. Gas prices are up 30 per cent since the election. Rent is up 16.3 per cent since the election. Insurance is up 17.3 per cent since the election. We've had interest rates increase 12 times by a total of 400 basis points, with no relief in sight. As for complex industrial relations changes, we've had 757 additional pages added to the Fair Work Act since 2022. We've had broken promises, not to reintroduce multi-employer bargaining. We've had great uncertainty for small business introduced in terms of the status of casuals and the meaning of the right to disconnect. It's little wonder with those complex industrial relations systemic changes that labour productivity has declined now by two per cent in the past two years. Businesses are grappling with higher costs of energy, higher costs of rent, higher costs of insurance, higher interest rates and complex industrial relations changes. It's little wonder that they are feeling under so much pressure.</para>
<para>We also have, because of this government's mismanagement of the economy, consumers with much less to spend. Disposable incomes are down 8.7 per cent since the first quarter of 2022. That's worse than any other advanced economy. It's worse than any other OECD economy. In fact, it's the worst since records began. What that means is if you're an average full-time earner on $95,000 a year, you have 150 less per week to spend in disposable income. That means you're spending less on a meal out and less on coffees. It's no wonder that, particularly in the hospitality sector, small businesses are struggling. Small businesses are small in size, but in terms of their scale and importance to the economy, they are massive. They employ more than five million people. They're often started by and run by families and extended family units, and they are the heart of many communities in our towns and suburbs and cities across Australia. So if small business is doing it tough, that's not just a problem for them; it's a problem for all of us. It's a problem for the people who work for small businesses, it's a problem for the people who run the small businesses, it's a problem for their customers who rely on small businesses, and it's fundamentally a problem for the health of the economy.</para>
<para>Rather than saying, 'The facts don't support that,' and denying that there is a problem, denying that there is an issue, denying that electricity prices are higher, denying that gas prices are higher, denying that interest rates are at record highs and denying that rent and insurance are both going up, this government needs to grapple with the scale of the economic challenges facing our nation and to grapple and sympathise with—at least as a very first point of call—the challenges being faced by small businesses in particular, who are, frankly, getting smashed by this government's economic policy. We have seen insolvency rates higher than they have ever been—the highest since records began, in 1999—and their business climate is only growing worse.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wanted to follow on from my good friend Senator O'Neill around the misinformation and disinformation line of questioning that we had from the opposition today in question time. I want to focus on a number of inaccurate claims that those opposite—with the irony—are trying to put out there in the community around the substance and the merits of the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024, which was before this parliament. There have been many inaccurate claims.</para>
<para>We heard some contributions earlier from senators opposite, and, to be clear, this bill that was put forward by the government is not a censorship bill. Nothing in this bill empowers the regulator themselves to take down content or accounts or to require platforms to do so, unless it is disinformation that results in behaviour that is not authentic. The key motive here is about making sure that we get rid of and take away the ability for a number of computer generated bot programs on the internet to keep pushing misinformation and disinformation across our media platforms.</para>
<para>The idea that this bill is a threat to free speech or outsources censorship decisions to big tech is just absurd. The platforms that we were discussing are already the chief censors. Every single day they are unaccountable, because posts remain live. They have the power to take down posts—or not. There is no transparency around how these companies deal with complaints when one puts forward a complaint about certain posts online and what the methodology is that sits behind these posts. What we've seen in recent times, around antisemitism and the like, is that—surprise, surprise—these types of posts somehow manage to be on the top of your feed every morning when you wake up and check your social media platforms. Why is that? Why do these social media companies feel it is the right course of action to promote these anti-social-cohesion type posts? What we're trying to do is de-escalate the temperature in our community, yet what they are trying to do is increase the temperature and cause conflict.</para>
<para>The bill also isn't inconsistent with our international human rights obligations. It preserves the freedom of speech and actually protects human rights online. The bill also doesn't empower the minister or the regulator to investigate everyday Australians or throw them in jail, as we heard from some senators across the aisle. So that's another false allegation that is being put to the government. The bill doesn't cover all content or opinion; it sets a very high bar. The bill also won't impinge on free or open debate in Australia. It contains carve-outs to ensure that there is free and open debate. The bill is, I believe, a very modest and sensible approach in light of all the other debate that we have heard not just in this place but also in the community, and the government had consulted with many stakeholders before presenting the bill to the parliament,</para>
<para>But, sadly, what we find as we get closer to the end of the year—it's the last sitting week of the parliament—is that those opposite, classically, will oppose things and try and make sure that this government—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Every single time, Senator Cadell. They work with the crossbench to frustrate the agenda of the government, the democratically elected government, in this place. Instead of making sure that our mandate, our ability, to represent Australians and implement Labor Party policy is honoured and respected, those opposite choose a different course of action, playing pure politics with the lives of many people. People right now deserve government's assistance and deserve the government to provide some certainty, to provide protection and to provide a framework that, should there be a worst-case scenario—we heard from Senator O'Neill that people are being abused online—stops these media platforms from promoting misinformation and disinformation.</para>
<para>What did those opposite say?</para>
<para>No, we don't. Why? Because we want to play politics in the lead-up to the next federal election. And that is the sad case that we are now facing in this place. Instead of actually putting words where his mouth is, the Leader of the Opposition stood in the other place and was proud to back the government and work with the government on making sure that people under the age of 16 are actually banned from social media platforms.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia is a liberal democracy, and, in a liberal democracy, people would expect that there is a reasonable restraint on the state's capacity to interfere with the lives of its citizens. This misinformation and disinformation bill strikes at the heart of that settlement between the people and the government of that state, and I was surprised to hear Senator Ciccone defend this concept of a misinformation and disinformation bill because I think most people have come to the view that this was a very bad idea. I understand that the government is a bit like the dog that caught the car. It doesn't know what it wants to do, so it's found a grab bag of ideas of things to pursue, perhaps half-heartedly. But this misinformation and disinformation bill—I must say, for the record, this is one of the most aggravating and nebulous terms thrown around in the current public debate—is a very bad idea, and there is no way that you could deploy a scheme where a bureaucrat would be asked to determine what is misinformation, what is disinformation, what is truth and what is false.</para>
<para>The reality is that we live in an age where there is a smorgasbord of opportunity for people to make up their own minds because of the disaggregation of the traditional media. It still exists in various forms and is being complemented by people being able to engage in their own form of journalism, citizen journalism perhaps, through various mediums. We have more choice than ever. People can make up their own minds. People can shop around, and there is still the traditional media. We've never licensed newspapers. People have always been able to make up their own minds based on reading what they want to access. So the idea of the government coming in—and some of the provisions in this bill were frankly very spooky and scary—and the minister deciding to commission an inquiry into an idea or into an outlet is crazy stuff.</para>
<para>We all respect Mr Rudd's position in Washington, but some of the things that he was doing when he was a private citizen in pursuing the idea that a certain media outlet was running the world and engaging in these conspiracy theories is just as dangerous as the concept of a minister creating a department or a bureaucrat to decide what is true and what is false. Thank goodness this idea has been junked. Long may that be the case, and we will fight against any return of this bad idea.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy (Senator McAllister) to a question without notice I asked today relating to COP29.</para></quote>
<para>Three-nil! I asked three questions and got nil specific answers. For 29 years, the United Nations has convened a conference of parties on climate change to counter the manufactured threat of global warming, climate change, climate disruption, global boiling, net zero and many other rebrandings. For 29 years, taxpayers' money has been wasted on this pointless to solve a fake problem and failed to change world temperatures. Many in this chamber think that giving money to the United Nations will enable us to affect world temperatures, yet we can't because temperatures are the result of factors not in our control.</para>
<para>COP29 focused heavily on finance. Rich countries, which are overwhelmingly blamed for natural climate variation, agreed in 2009 to ramp up annual payments to provide $100 billion a year in 2020 to developing countries. That pledge was met in 2022—two years past the deadline. At Baku, the United Nations came up with a new number, meaning more Australian taxpayer money would be spent overseas to fight this concocted problem. The new deal agreed on yesterday requires wealthy countries, including the US, European nations and Australia, to ramp up payments to $300 billion annually in 2035.</para>
<para>So I asked the minister: what's Australia's share? The minister didn't know. If we paid based on the UN formula, Australia would be paying $6 billion every year—money sent overseas and never seen again, reducing Australia's gross domestic product and with that the standard of living for all Australians. Worse, the agreement refers to a wider ambition to increase payments to developing nations up to $1.3 trillion—annually, I believe. Developing nations include China, India, Egypt—all modern, vibrant economies. Worse, these nations have no formal obligation to cut their output of carbon dioxide gas or to provide financial help to poorer countries. One Nation will withdraw from the UN climate agencies and UN imposts that are really income redistribution, communism disguised as climatism. One Nation will stop the UN theft.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gambling Advertising</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of answers given by the Minister representing the Prime Minister (Senator Wong) to questions without notice asked by Senator Hanson-Young today relating to gambling advertising.</para></quote>
<para>Today, when asked if the government agrees that gambling ads cause harm and fuel addiction and why it has again delayed urgent reform on gambling ads, it compared what it has done to the coalition's track record. Really, could the bar be any lower? When asked if it would finally act on gambling harm and ban gambling ads, we were told that they were too busy. Yet this government has enough time to attempt to ram through discriminatory, inhumane migration legislation—migration legislation so draconian, so cruel, that in a contest with the coalition it would inevitably come out on top. We have waited for the government to respond to the parliamentary inquiry led by the late Peta Murphy for over 18 months. Now, this government has completely squibbed it. It is the one thing that experts have said will keep people safe over summer, when families and kids are sitting down to watch sport and kids continue to be bombarded with gambling ads—the one thing. But nada, nothing—more excuses, more dodging and more weaving. When asked if you would stop taking donations from the dirty gambling industry, you laughed dismissively with full knowledge of the responsible minister's lavish society birthday lunch. It is more clear than ever that Labor are unwilling to bite the hand that feeds them.</para>
<para>It has been over a year since the late Peta Murphy tabled the report of the House inquiry into online gambling, a report that gave a clear recommendation to end gambling ads across all media within three years. In the face of the Labor government's inaction, the Greens recently introduced a bill to ban gambling advertising in line with those recommendations. We did this because we know that it's what the public wants. But the major parties are completely out of touch with this reality because they spend more time listening to the gambling lobby than they spend listening to the public. For far too long, effective regulation of the gambling industry has been obstructed by dirty political donations to the major parties and the revolving door between this place and lobbying firms. Labor and Liberals continue to receive millions of dollars in political donations from questionable donors, including in the gambling industry. They serve their donors while ignoring the pain that gambling harm inflicts on families right across this country. The power and dirty donations of our gambling lobby cannot be allowed to infect our democracy and put our kids in harm's way any longer. It's clear for anyone watching to see that Labor has caved and failed to act on gambling ads.</para>
<para>But no-one should fall for Peter Dutton's trickery either. The coalition was in government for years and did nothing, absolutely nothing, on gambling. Both Labor and the coalition are completely captured by the gambling lobby, while Australian families and gambling addicts lose out. This is the last sitting week of the year. We could pass laws to ban gambling ads by the end of the year with the Greens bill, in line with the Peta Murphy inquiry recommendations. Labor could choose to prioritise gambling reform instead of the cruel, inhumane migration bills it's trying to pass. Labor talks big on social media safety for young people under 16 yet fails to do anything to protect them from the exposure they face to gambling. If this government is serious about making social media safer, it must get on with banning gambling ads.</para>
<para>The Greens are the only party with a clear plan to reduce gambling harm that goes beyond advertising bans to comprehensive national regulation. We are calling on the government to urgently ban all gambling advertising across TV, radio and print and social media. We're calling on the government to establish a national independent gambling regulator. We're calling on Labor to put an end to political donations from the gambling industry.</para>
<para>These measures would go a long way towards keeping our kids and families safe.</para>
<para>We know that gambling ruins lives and disrupts families, and it's a scourge on the Australian community right now. People want policies like those of the Greens to end gambling ads. This Labor government can run from gambling reform, but it can't hide from the seven in 10 Australians who want gambling ads banned now. We need a consistent approach to gambling, not a patchwork of regulations and loopholes. The Greens are ready to work with the Labor government this week, today, to end gambling ads and the scourge that they create to our society. It's time for Labor to choose a side. Do Labor work for Australian families, or do they work for the bookies? I think the decision should be pretty straightforward.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>59</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice given on 21 November 2024 on behalf of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I withdraw two items: firstly, business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2 for five sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Therapeutic Goods (Vaping Goods—Possession and Supply) Determination 2024 and, secondly, business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 for seven sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Therapeutic Goods (Vaping Goods—Possession and Supply) Amendment Determination 2024.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Messner, Hon. Anthony John, AM</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death on 11 October 2024 of Hon. Anthony John 'Tony' Messner AM, a senator for the state of South Australia from 1975 to 1990.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate records its sadness at the death on 11 October 2024 of Anthony (Tony) John Messner AM, former Minister for Veterans' Affairs and former senator for South Australia, and places on record its gratitude for his service to the parliament and the nation and tenders its sympathy to his family in their bereavement.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Messner was a proud South Australian, despite having the misfortune of being born in Victoria. Growing up, he attended the Pulteney Grammar School and the South Australian Institute of Technology. He was an avid rugby union player in his younger years, playing in both Western Australia and South Australia. As reflected by many, he was built for the sport and was usually one of the biggest and strongest players on the field.</para>
<para>However, Mr Messner had competing passions. He became a chartered accountant and settled in Mount Gambier. It was there that he dived headfirst into the world of business and politics, going on to become the secretary of the Mount Gambier Chamber of Commerce and becoming involved in the South Australian Liberal Party. He rose through the ranks quickly in the party, starting as an office bearer with the Young Liberals before holding the post of policy coordinator for the South Australian branch of the party and serving several terms on its state executive. Mr Messner would be elected as a senator for South Australia in December 1975 and was re-elected in 1977, 1983 and 1987.</para>
<para>This was a man that did not shy away from his beliefs. He saw small business as the lifeblood of the Australian economy and would use every opportunity to highlight their contributions and bring awareness to their struggles.</para>
<para>In November 1980, Mr Messner became the Minister for Veterans' Affairs and the Minister Assisting the Treasurer, The Treasurer at the time was the Hon. John Howard. With 20 years of practical experience as a chartered accountant, Mr Messner was an impressive assistant Treasurer, immersing himself in the policy discussions and steering Treasury bills through the Senate.</para>
<para>The Veterans' Affairs portfolio came with its unique challenges, with allegations that the exposure of Vietnam veterans to Agent Orange was causing various cancers and psychological disorders. Yet he did not shy away from these challenges and he travelled to the United States to examine how they were addressing this issue. Despite the difficulties, Mr Messner managed to achieve some truly remarkable things in the Veterans' Affairs portfolio. It was under Mr Messner that a veterans counselling centre was established in every state and the Northern Territory. It was under Mr Messner that amendments to the repatriation legislation were passed, ensuring that every Australian veteran, including peacekeepers, was eligible for repatriation benefits regardless of what conflict they served in. Mr Messner said, in regard to compensating those who had served our nation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is a philosophy which reflects the very best of the Australian character, that is, helping those in need, standing together in times of need and making sure that useful people are not thrown on the scrap heap before their time.</para></quote>
<para>Even after Mr Messner left the Senate, he continued to dedicate his time to worthy causes, including Operation Flinders Foundation, an outback adventure program dedicated to transforming the lives of disadvantaged young people. In 1997, Mr Messner was appointed the Administrator of Norfolk Island, a position which he held until 2003. In 2004, he was deservedly appointed a Member of the Order of Australia for his considerable contributions to the people of Norfolk Island, Australian veterans and to the federal parliament.</para>
<para>I never had the pleasure of meeting Mr Messner, but by all accounts he was a dedicated and passionate individual who left a very proud legacy. I extend my condolences to those that knew him. The loss of a loved one is heartbreaking. While he will be sadly missed by his loving family and friends, I trust they will reflect on the happy memories and his lasting contribution to the nation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to join with the Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate in acknowledging the life of the Hon. Anthony John Messner, known to all as 'Tony'. Tony Messner was the only child of Thelma and Colin Messner, a banking officer. His father, while working for the Bank of Adelaide, moved the family across the country, with, as Senator Farrell acknowledged, Tony's childhood being spent across Adelaide, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth. He followed in his father's footsteps and, after finishing his education, was employed by the ANZ Bank before taking on chartered accountancy work in Mount Gambier and, later, in Adelaide, from 1965 to 1975. In 1963, Tony married Louise, with whom he had two sons, before later marrying Robyn in 1983. While living in Mount Gambier, Tony became involved with local community organisations, including the local chamber of commerce and what would become the South Australian Liberal Party.</para>
<para>Like most pathways into politics, Tony's wasn't always one of smooth sailing. Having joined the then Liberal and Country League, Tony would be an unsuccessful candidate for preselection for the state seat of Davenport in 1972. He would also be unsuccessful on the Senate ticket of the 1974 double-dissolution election before ultimately being elected to the Senate in the coalition landslide victory at the 1975 election. During his time in the Senate, Tony navigated his passion for tax reform, befitting his chartered accountancy background, while also holding a range of portfolios across the shadow ministry, including social security, community services, finance and taxation, industry and commerce, communications and public administration, to name most but not all of them.</para>
<para>Five years into Tony's time in the Senate, he was appointed to the ministry to the positions of Minister for Veterans' Affairs and Minister Assisting the Treasurer—as Senator Farrell acknowledged, one John Howard at that time—in the Fraser government. As Minister for Veterans' Affairs, though for only a few years, Tony Messner certainly left a clear legacy in terms of his work on issues of repatriation benefits and other supports for Australia's veterans community.</para>
<para>After the defeat of the Fraser government in 1983, then opposition leader Andrew Peacock appointed Tony as spokesman on social security matters. Tony was judged by the media of the day to have maintained a high profile in that role as shadow social security minister through the vigour and persistence of his attacks on the Hawke government's introduction of an assets test for the age pension at the time. When John Howard assumed the Liberal Party leadership in September 1985, Tony, who was a friend and strong supporter of John Howard's, was promoted further into the shadow front bench as spokesperson on finance and taxation.</para>
<para>In that same month as his appointment, a shadow cabinet paper prepared by Tony was leaked to the late-night ABC TV current affairs program. The document in question laid out a strategy of how best to respond to the Hawke government's stated intention to introduce fringe benefits and capital gains taxes. It also addressed some speculation that there could be coalition senators who might cross the floor on these matters. Tony's reaction was quintessential to his style, and that was by no means to take a backwards step but instead to move a motion urging the government to abandon its proposal for a capital gains tax because of the destructive effects this would have on incentive. Tony's motion was debated on the first Tuesday in November of 1985, Melbourne Cup Day. Tony decided to make the most of the timing, telling the Senate at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Twenty-six or 27 of the best horses in Australia race in one race and we make sure that the one that has the best chance of winning is weighed down with lead. That is the kind of approach adopted by this Government.</para></quote>
<para>In each of his shadow portfolios, Tony took bold stances. When appointed shadow minister for public administration, he declared, 'The real world of today is tough, mean and lean, and it demands a tough, lean and mean public service.' He continued by proposing sweeping changes to the Commonwealth Public Service, including the need to set up independent watchdogs within each department to identify and eliminate waste and inefficiency.</para>
<para>Tony was eventually stood down from the front bench by Andrew Peacock in 1989 and, later that year, announced his intention to resign. In 1990, he was replaced in the Senate by then former South Australian opposition leader and later to become South Australian Premier John Olsen. The Senate opposition leader at the time of Tony Messner's resignation, Robert Hill, reflected on Tony's Senate career, stating that Tony 'possessed fine political skills' and had been unlucky in the timing of his political career because 'the time in which he was high in the pecking order in our shadow ministries were the years in which we were losing elections'. It is true, indeed, that Tony's contribution, though important as a minister, was especially marked during his time in opposition.</para>
<para>Tony's funeral service was held near his and Robyn's home at Berry in New South Wales, where they had settled in retirement. A eulogy was given by former prime minister John Howard. Not only was Tony the Minister Assisting the Treasurer during John Howard's tenure in that portfolio from 1980 to 1983, but, quite famously, Tony Messner and Mr Howard shared a flat in Canberra, along with the late Senator Warwick Parer, during many years of parliamentary sittings. Mr Howard spoke fondly of being able to share with completely trusted colleagues and the mutual friendships they all developed, including their spouses, during their time sharing that Canberra flat. He also spoke of an enjoyable holiday that he and Janette had had on Norfolk Island during the time Tony was administrator there. Tony's background as an accountant before entering parliament was invaluable in his time as Minister Assisting the Treasurer, and Mr Howard spoke happily of delegating to him responsibility for the Australian Taxation Office because of that expertise that Tony held.</para>
<para>After leaving the Senate, Tony returned to Adelaide, becoming treasurer of the Operation Flinders Foundation, a charity that continues to run a wilderness adventure program for young offenders and youths at risk.</para>
<para>As acknowledged, in 1987 he was appointed Administrator of Norfolk Island and held that position until 2003. In 2004 he was appropriately acknowledged as a Member of the Order of Australia for his service to parliament, Norfolk Island and the community. From then until 2009 he continued to hold the positions of director and chairman for Health Services Australia.</para>
<para>Tony Messner's life was one of dedication to his community and of fierce advocacy around his passions. We thank Tony for his contributions in this place and his service to Australia. On behalf of the Senate, the opposition and in particular the Liberal Party: to Tony's loved ones, his wife, Robyn, and his family, we extend our sincere condolences and thanks.</para>
<para>Question agreed to, honourable senators joining in a moment of silence.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That private senators' bills be considered this week as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Legalising Cannabis Bill 2023, on Wednesday, 27 November 2024; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Criminal Code Amendment (Genocide, Crimes Against Humanity and War Crimes) Bill 2024, on Thursday, 28 November 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>64</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>PRESIDENT (): If there is no objection, the business is postponed.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted for Senator Colbeck for today, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Dean Smith, I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2 for today.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Telecommunications (Emergency Call Service) Amendment Determination 2024 (No. 1)</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>65</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Telecommunications (Emergency Call Service) Amendment Determination 2024 (No. 1), made under the <inline font-style="italic">Telecommunications (Consumer Protection and Service Standards) Act 1999</inline>, be disallowed [F2024L01353].</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement for one minute.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support the motion. Telcos made a commercial decision to switch over their 3G networks. The overriding concern throughout the 3G switchover process has been to protect public safety. Everyone using a mobile phone in Australia should have confidence that their device is able to call triple 0 in an emergency. That's why the Minister for Communications directed ACMA to amend the ECS determination to require service providers to identify mobile phones that are unable to access triple 0, notify the user and cease providing a service to the effective device.</para>
<para>Consumers were notified multiple times in a variety of ways by their mobile operator about the need to upgrade. Australians will continue to have a wide variety of handset options that they can purchase through their telco or from a third-party vendor. As such, the government opposes this motion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a one-minute statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts's motion highlights the chaos that this government's handling of the 3G shutdown has brought about. In late October, thousands of 4G phones were deactivated because the communications minister ordered telcos to do so without public notice. A late October determination required telcos to identify phones unable to access triple 0 and cut off service, but no public warnings were issued. This left phone owners unprepared and frustrated.</para>
<para>The government, warned about 4G connectivity issues last year, has struggled with this transition, shifting blame to the telcos. The 3G shutdown is necessary, but the process was poorly managed, impacting many, many Australians. While we understand what's prompted this motion, it's not practical to undo the 3G transition, which is why the coalition will not be supporting this disallowance.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Reform) Bill 2024, allowing it to be considered during this period of sittings.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Minister Gallagher in relation to the exemption of a bill from the cut-off be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:01]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>21</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>19</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Procedure Committee</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Faruqi, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That the following matter be referred to the Procedure Committee for inquiry and report by 31 March 2025: Whether, in line with recommendation 10 of the report <inline font-style="italic">Set the standard: Report on the independent review into Commonwealth parliamentary workplaces</inline> (the report), any changes to the language and interpretation of the standing orders are required to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) eliminate language, behaviour, decision-making and practices that are sexist, racist or otherwise exclusionary and discriminatory;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) improve safety and respect in the Senate chamber; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) clarify unclear and inconsistent types of behaviour and enforcement of standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That for the purposes of this inquiry only:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the committee be authorised to hold public hearings and to move from place to place;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate or Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, or any minority party or independent senator; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) such participating members may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee and have all the rights of members of the committee except that a participating member may not vote on any questions before the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) That the Senate directs the committee to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) hold a public hearing for a period of not less than 4 hours;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) ensure that a majority of witnesses invited are those adversely impacted by racism, First Peoples and culturally and racially marginalised people;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) invite a representative from the Australian Human Rights Commission who has been involved with the report and/or the <inline font-style="italic">Mapping government anti-racist programs and policies</inline> report to attend as a witness;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) consult with Parliamentary Workplace Support Service regarding the conduct of the inquiry; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) ensure that each of the following groupings is allowed at least 45 minutes to question witnesses at the hearing:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Australian Greens senators, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) independent senators.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move an amendment to the motion.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Omit paragraphs (2) and (3), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) successive governments, working across the Parliament, have taken strong action to implement all 28 recommendations of <inline font-style="italic">Set the Standard: Report on the Independent Review into Commonwealth Parliamentary Workplaces </inline>(Set the Standard report) which was tabled on 30 November 2021,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Government and the Parliament have taken action to implement all recommendations of the Set the Standard report, working through the Parliamentary Leadership Taskforce, and recommendations from the report are now all ongoing or completed, with a review to take place 18 months after the commencement of the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the President referred an inquiry into recommendation 10 of the Set the Standard report to the Procedure Committee in October 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the Procedure Committee presented its report in response to this referral on 12 September 2023,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the Senate unanimously adopted the Behaviour Standards and Codes of Conduct for Parliamentarians and MOPS Act Staff on 10 October 2024, which commenced on 14 October 2024,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) specifically, the Behaviour Standards require that people 'uphold laws that support safe and respectful workplaces, including</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">anti-discrimination, employment, work health and safety and criminal laws' and state that 'bullying, harassment, sexual harassment or assault, or discrimination in any form, including on the grounds of race, age, sex, sexuality, gender identity, disability, or religion will not be tolerated, condoned or ignored', and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vii) the Parliament established a Parliamentary Joint Committee on Parliamentary Standards on 10 October 2024;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) reaffirms that all parliamentarians have a role to play in upholding appropriate standards of behaviour in the Parliament, including those outlined in the Behaviour Standards for Commonwealth Parliamentary Workplaces.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a one-minute statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens will be opposing the government's amendment, because here we are again, wanting the procedure committee to look specifically into racism, to include black and brown people of colour in that inquiry and to have a hearing and actually listen to those voices.</para>
<para>I know that all this that you have noted in your amendment has happened, but that hasn't changed a thing. You can laugh away at this because, for you all, it's a laughing matter, but, for some of us in here and many of us out there, racism is not a laughing matter. If you are serious about tackling racism, then why are you amending this motion? What are you afraid of? Listen to what people in here and out there have to say about racism in this chamber.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition supports the amendment moved by the government; however, it's important to note, as the government has, that, with the Procedure Committee review of the standing orders, consistent with recommendation 10 of the <inline font-style="italic">Set the </inline><inline font-style="italic">standard</inline> report and its second report of 2023, the coalition maintains the view that the current language of the standing orders and the practices of the Senate in applying the President's rulings are sufficiently flexible to enable that framework to cover matters identified in the report. The parliament established the Independent Parliamentary Standards Commission, which will enforce the behaviour codes for parliamentarians and for MOP staff. In addition, the Senate Privileges Committee was given additional functions where the IPSC refers a serious breach finding, and the Senate standing orders were amended to approve standards of behaviour and behaviour codes. The Senate and indeed the parliament are currently implementing these significant reforms to improve workplace behaviour and culture, and the coalition remains committed to ensuring this important work continues.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a one-minute statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not surprised, as a blak sovereign woman in this place who has experienced racism since I walked in the door, about this ongoing denial when we call out racism. You get together and go, 'How can we make this white?' Not 'right'—'How can we make this white?' And that's what youse have done. You've shut down two black and brown women in this place who've said: 'We want to deal with racism. Can you assist us please, Senate?' And you two get together and talk about how much whiter you can make this place and how unsafe you're going to continue to make this place. We've called this out because we don't feel safe. For the two speakers of your parties—both white—to deny our right, shame on you both!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Thorpe and Senator Faruqi be amended.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">A division having been called and the bells being rung—</inline></para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, please, there's ample opportunity for you to express yourself in other parts of the day.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, please, it's a division, and soon the tellers are going to need to concentrate.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:08]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> We've got the native police sitting there. Shame!</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can we hold the count for a moment. Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> A point of order: Senator Thorpe should withdraw that. Senator Thorpe, you're the one that speaks about safety and respect in the chamber. That comment is neither—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> I don't actually have any for her.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> I am speaking, actually.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, show the Leader of the Government in the Senate some respect and allow her to speak. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> Senator Thorpe should withdraw what she said previously. I don't care about me but I do care about the comment which was directed at First Nations senators on our side. She should withdraw it. She speaks of respect and safety in this place. She should show some.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, on the representations of the minister—and I did hear the comment—I have to ask you to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> What's wrong with 'native police'? I'll say it every time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll give you an opportunity to withdraw, otherwise I'll have to refer it to the President at the conclusion of the division.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> Refer it to the President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise you, Senator Thorpe, of the last asking. I'll ask you to withdraw, otherwise I'll refer it to the President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> I'm not withdrawing.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please proceed with the count.</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal Services Funding</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Attorney-General statements which detail the expenditure by the Commonwealth on:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) funding for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services by state and territory, including funding allocations made by states and territories; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) funding for National Family Violence Prevention Legal Service providers including funding allocations made by states and territories.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That the statements are due not later than the tenth day after the end of the preceding three month period commencing 1 January, 1 April, 1 July, and 1 October.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) That each statement is to include:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) details of how this expenditure addresses any funding shortfalls predicted by the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services and National Family Violence Prevention Legal Service providers, by state and territory; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an explanation of the purpose of the expenditure and the outcomes it is expected to deliver.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) That this order is of continuing effect.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting this motion. The Prime Minister's significant announcement following National Cabinet in September demonstrates our government's commitment to access to justice. First ministers have signed a heads of agreement for a new National Access to Justice Partnership. This partnership will commence on 1 July 2025 and will deliver vital supports to all parts of the legal assistance sector, including Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander legal services and family violence prevention legal services. The new $3.9 billion agreement is due to be finalised by the end of this month. It's the biggest Commonwealth commitment to legal assistance ever. The allocation of this new money will be finalised through the Standing Council of Attorneys-General very shortly. All of the information Senator Thorpe seeks through this motion can be accessed through Senate estimates, which renders this motion unnecessary.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:15]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>17</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw my motion because the government copied and moved it earlier.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>AUKUS, Order for the Production of Documents</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Birmingham, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Prime Minister, by no later than midday on 27 November 2024, all correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes, or other records of interaction between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Prime Minister and/or his office and:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Minister for Foreign Affairs and/or her office,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the Minister for Climate Change and Energy and/or his office, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet and:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in relation to the new agreement between the UK and US on civil nuclear collaboration announced by the UK Government on 18 November 2024, including documents which reference Australia's possible participation in the agreement.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>AUKUS</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Birmingham, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than midday on 27 November 2024, all correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes or other records of interaction between the Minister for Climate Change and Energy and/or his office and the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water in relation to the new agreement between the United Kingdom (UK) and United States on civil nuclear collaboration announced by the UK Government on 18 November 2024, including documents which reference Australia's possible participation in the agreement.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>AUKUS</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Birmingham, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, by no later than midday on 27 November 2024, all correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting notes, meeting agendas or minutes, or other records of interaction between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Minister for Foreign Affairs and/or her office and:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Minister for Climate Change and Energy and/or his office, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">in relation to the new agreement between the United Kingdom (UK) and United States on civil nuclear collaboration announced by the UK Government on 18 November 2024, including documents which reference Australia's possible participation in the agreement.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw general business notice of motion number 693.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Non-Disclosure Agreements</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) on 3 October 2024, questions on notice nos 3633 to 3679 were submitted, requesting that ministers of all portfolios provide specific information relating to the use of non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) in this term of Parliament,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a number of ministers responded to questions with identical answers stating that 'governments of all persuasions have used non­-disclosure agreements (NDAs) from time to time to assist in the development of policies and legislative proposals' and multiple others responded that they did not keep 'centralised records', and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the answers to the questions provided by the ministers did not provide the information sought by the questions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) there be laid on the table by the ministers to which the questions were directed, by midday on 27 November 2024, revised answers to questions on notice nos 3633 to 3679 (excluding questions on notice nos 3634, 3635, 3643, 3645, 3646, 3648, 3649, 3652, 3660, 3661, 3663, 3668 and 3672), placed on notice on 3 October 2024, that provide the information sought by the questions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) if this order has not been complied with by midday on 27 November 2024 the Senate requires the Minister representing the Prime Minister to attend the Senate at the conclusion of motions to take note of answers to provide an explanation, of no more than 5 minutes, of why the answers have not been provided, and that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the motion may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes, shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, could I ask that paragraphs (a) and (b) be put separately to paragraph (c) for this motion?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the opposition, I'm going to split the question, so there will be two questions. The first question is that paragraphs (a) and (b) of the motion moved by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that paragraph (c) of the motion moved by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
<para>The Senate divided. [16:21]</para>
<para>(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>19</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>72</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators are reminded that on Wednesday 20 November 2024, after 6.30 pm, a division was called on the motion moved by Senator Nampijinpa Price relating to a proposed reference to the Environment and Communications References Committee. I understand it suits the convenience of the Senate for the deferred vote to be held now. I note there's no objection.</para>
<para>The question before the Senate, on a deferred division, is that the motion moved by Senator Nampijinpa Price be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:28]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>9</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7239" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Honourable senators, Senator Cadell has submitted a proposal under standing order 75:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to acknowledge the shocking flaws in Labor's misinformation bill, and for the Government to categorically rule out reintroducing it"</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to acknowledge the shocking flaws in Labor's misinformation bill, and for the Government to categorically rule out reintroducing it</para></quote>
<para>Today we had the withdrawal of a bill that should never have seen the light of day. I heard speakers earlier today talk about what it was meant to be but what it wasn't. It all comes down to a confluence of many things. The bill, in reality, ended up being three things. It ended up being a bill on disinformation, a bill on misinformation and a bill on accessing data on social media platforms. One of those things had merit. What I hear in this place is exactly one of the problems we had with it: misinformation and disinformation merging; people's real views out there in the world—people's freedom of political expression—and freedom of information merged with inauthentic, unreal bot disinformation.</para>
<para>That was just the beginning of what we saw. This bill tried to fix a credible area around disinformation and inauthentic and non-state actors doing things, but it tried to do it by silencing people at home, people out there with true beliefs, people who want to progress thought in this country. I have many signs around my office walls to annoy my staff. I have Sun Tzu, I have Patton—I have all these things. I think of the George Patton one in my conference room: 'When everyone is thinking the same, someone isn't thinking.' That's what we had in this bill—the absolute predominance of groupthink. If you had any thought that was different from the mainstream, it wasn't wanted.</para>
<para>We hear that in this bill opinion was not excluded, but Senator Sharma, who's behind me in the chamber, pointed out during the committee inquiry that the EM explicitly said opinion, even invective, was included in what could be seen as contributing to serious harm. These are things that the other side will say weren't included. We hear that the bill wasn't censorship, that the government never wanted to censor anything, but under this bill the government wanted to impose such harsh penalties on the platforms that they would have had no choice but to censor. When you are faced with global fines of up to $12 billion if you allow misinformation to continue on your platform, what do you do? You shut down thought. You shut down speech. You shut down the capacity for people to express their opinion. Nations are at their very best when people can think. Nations are at their very best when people can challenge the status quo.</para>
<para>When we are all here and we hear the views of those dialling in, emailing in and writing in and telling us their views, it is only the weak of mind and the weak of thought—only the weak—who are challenged and offended by having that put upon them. That is why freedom of speech should be not only implied in the Constitution. We should look at having it enshrined in the Constitution, because I love it when I can have a conversation with someone where I can hear new information, where I can make a new decision and where I can be challenged.</para>
<para>There were many, many reasons we heard for the bill. They wanted to link it to disinformation all the time. They wanted to link it to the worst of the worst. But, when it comes down to opinion, when it comes to silencing those at home and the penalties it proposed, this had to stop. I raise this MPI today because it should never come back. It is okay that it has been withdrawn. I had second thoughts when I saw Senator Roberts trying to withdraw this bill by himself from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> last week. I though that maybe I wanted it brought into this chamber and voted down, because what the government achieved with this bill was something they couldn't achieve last year with the Voice. They unified all of Australia apart from themselves, because they did haven't another vote in this chamber other than that of the government. The Greens, the crossbenchers and every other party here were unanimous. This, as it stood, was not good enough.</para>
<para>It didn't just go in the chamber; it went to the witnesses over three days of hearings, led ably—I must say, very well—by Senator Grogan across the road. Only one witness that was a government agency, the Emergency Management Authority, said the bill should pass, and they put greater stress on the disinformation than the misinformation component. Every other witness had a problem with it on the way through.</para>
<para>I think it is great this bill is gone. I think it should never, ever see the light of day again. I know that Australia is better when thoughts are out there and can be debated and challenged and when people can air their views without fear of persecution.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we are debating a bill that has been discharged from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. Why is that? I think it's just so that some people can have another kick at this bill and perpetuate more and more mis- and disinformation about this bill. Seriously! That's all we've heard from the very beginning until right now, as my respected colleague Senator Cadell has been pointing out his views. We hear over and over again questions about things that are not actually in the bill. We hear about issues that people have with the bill that are not contained in the bill. All I can say is this total approach has been politicised. It's been a completely political exercise, as opposed to an exercise in unpacking the actual detail of a piece of legislation and looking at the reality of it.</para>
<para>This has happened over and over again. We had a joke, actually, during the committee hearing, where I would say to people, 'No, we're not going to lock up your granny,' because that's where people kept going. This bill, as it stood, was not going to lock up anyone. The fact—not an interpretation and not an opinion but a printed fact—is that that piece of proposed legislation had no criminal penalties. We all know what that means. Obviously, some of you don't. But, fundamentally, it means there were no criminal penalties. It means no-one was going to get locked up. That is just one example of the kind of rubbish that was put over and over again while we were debating the passage of this bill. There was constant misinformation from my colleagues across the room.</para>
<para>So we have lost the opportunity to protect people online. We have lost the opportunity to make a better platform to stop that harmful information being spread at speed by people who are doing it with malintent. This is a real problem. Of everyone that wrote to the committee and that spoke to the committee, the vast majority accepted that we have a serious problem in this country with some of the information that is distributed—again, as I say—at speed and with malintent.</para>
<para>We are not talking about opinions. We're not talking about myself and, say, Senator Rennick having a disagreement about something. I'm allowed my opinion and he is allowed his opinion. We can have a debate. There was nothing proposed in the bill that would have ever stopped that, whether we did it in this chamber or online. This was not about opinion. A vast amount of the information that has circulated about this bill is just fundamentally wrong.</para>
<para>So now we're left in this situation where we had a perfect opportunity to bring forward this bill that was measured, balanced and would have made things better—but, no, we can't do that because there's too much political opportunity for those opposite. There's too much political opportunity for them to put it to one side and think about the people in this country, to think about the harm online and actually do something about it. But, no, we can't waste that political opportunity, can we? And so we stand here again.</para>
<para>I have lost count of the number of times I've stood in this chamber on a particular piece of legislation where the opposition didn't want any of it and our friends in the Greens want way, way more. The balanced approach, the compromise, is something that neither of those two groups in this chamber are prepared to come to the table on. That is a disgrace. This chamber should be better than that. We should be looking at this bill as a good and balanced piece of legislation that would genuinely go towards helping people out there in our country. It would protect people, not silence them. But we've wasted that opportunity, so I hope that you all feel deeply proud of yourselves.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, the misinformation and disinformation bill is dead. Rejoice! But the thing is it's not dead, because the threat of authoritarian governments is never-ending. What we've seen here with the attempted passing of this bill by the Labor government is a government that is more interested in control than serving the people. With the greatest of respect, Senator Grogan—through the chair—I do enjoy debating with you on opinions.</para>
<para>We know that while people may not have gone to jail because of this particular bill, the fact is that censorship can have devastating impacts on people's lives. I saw that. Almost the entirety of the back half of my Senate term has been dictated by the rubbish that was sprouted throughout COVID. I took a stand there. I was ridiculed at the time. I had posts censored, and people have been injured. One of the really sad things about this is a lot of people come and say to me, 'Senator Rennick, you've done a really good job on this', and I say, 'No, actually, I haven't.' I took the stand and I was ridiculed, and because of that I think it's been harder to get help for people on these vaccine injuries. If a mainstream party leader had led the charge and done the right thing, we probably would have got help. But, no, the slurs went on and on. When Facebook and those social media companies were censoring posts that were starting to question the narrative, it got shut down. Sure, we didn't go to jail, but people got hurt.</para>
<para>This is the problem when you shut down free speech. These people had good intentions and they had a healthy scepticism of government. At the end of the day, governments are the biggest purveyors of mistruths; everyone knows that. Trust in government has completely collapsed, and when you try and censor people you're only destroying that confidence even more.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What a gross distortion of priorities this piece of legislation has been. With all the challenges facing our country, from the cost-of-living crisis to anaemic economic performance, 12 consecutive interest rate rises, declining real GDP per capita and increased prices in fuel, electricity and gas, the government has spent countless hours and wasted thousands of hours of Australian citizens' time pursuing this ill-conceived piece of legislation.</para>
<para>The warning signs were there from the very beginning.</para>
<para>This government, in June 2023, almost 18 months ago now, announced the intent to pursue this legislation. In response to the exposure draft that they released, they received 20,000 submissions, an overwhelming number of which were highly critical. The legislation was withdrawn, but then the government decided to come back and have another go. They introduced a second exposure draft, which generated even more hostile submissions, some 28,000—far more than the committee could read, far more than the secretariat could process, far more that could ever be published and, again, overwhelmingly hostile.</para>
<para>This isn't a case of the opposition playing politics. This is a case of widespread public discontent and mistrust in what the purpose of this legislation was. Senator Grogan in her comments, ironically or otherwise, highlighted this. In her remarks just then, she talked about 'constant misinformation from my colleagues across the room', referring to us. Now, if our opinions disagreeing with hers are characterised as misinformation, then of course, under the terms of this piece of legislation, it would fall within the scope of the mis- and disinformation act. We have seen far too much willingness by people to characterise opinions with which they disagree as misinformation. Senator Grogan, the chair of the committee who looked into this, did just this.</para>
<para>Senator Grogan also said, 'We're not talking about opinions.' She said we're not talking about opinions. The explanatory memorandum attached to this bill makes very clear that the definition of misinformation includes opinions, claims, commentary and invective, again undermining what Senator Grogan, the chair of the committee, just asserted about this.</para>
<para>We have seen countless Australians express their opposition to and mistrust of this piece of legislation. The Victorian Bar Council, for instance, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Bill's interference with the self-fulfilment of free expression will occur primarily by the chilling self-censorship it will inevitably bring about in the individual users of the relevant services …</para></quote>
<para>The Human Rights Commission said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… it … needs to be recognised that information may be opportunistically labelled as 'misinformation' or 'disinformation'—</para></quote>
<para>I wonder who's guilty of that here!—</para>
<quote><para class="block">to delegitimise alternative opinions, and limit open discussion about issues of public importance.</para></quote>
<para>Professor Nick Coatsworth said, 'The terms "misinformation" and "disinformation" have become overused in public discourse,' often employed 'as a way to dismiss opposing viewpoints without engaging in debate'. Well, this is what this legislation was about. It was about shutting down opposing viewpoints by introducing a system of incentives and punishments for the modern marketplace of ideas—global tech platforms—and not only encouraging them but coercing them to take down opinion that flies in the face of conventional wisdom. And this, I think, really gets to the heart of why this bill is so problematic.</para>
<para>As a free and liberal society since the Enlightenment, the way our society has progressed is through the open contestation of ideas and opinions. Scientific breakthroughs come about because conventional wisdom can be challenged openly, but even society advances in its own values by permitting challenges to the prevailing orthodoxy. As I said in the committee's hearing, if you were Copernicus or Galileo and this legislation existed back in the 16th or 17th century, what you said would be misinformation. If you were arguing against slavery in the 18th century or for extending the franchise to women in the 19th century, again you would be outside the realm of conventional wisdom and orthodoxy and, more than likely—it being opinion, commentary or invective—you would have fallen foul of this misinformation legislation.</para>
<para>This legislation's most pernicious threat to our society was its stifling of free debate, its imposition of orthodoxy and the removal of our ability to progress as a society. I'm glad this bill has been withdrawn; it should never return.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian people have emerged victorious in our fight for free speech, a fight against our very own government. This version of the misinformation bill is dead, but only a fool would believe that the Labor government's love affair with censorship is finished. The problem, unfortunately, goes much deeper than the Australian Labor Party. The public must never forget that the misinformation bill was first promoted by the Liberal Party. Former Liberal communications minister Paul Fletcher was the first to announce the introduction of the misinformation and disinformation bill, back in 2022.</para>
<para>Whether Liberal or Labor and whether in Australia or in other parts of the Western world, major political parties are in lockstep in attempting to censor free speech. It doesn't matter whether you're in the UK, France, Canada or New Zealand, they're all singing from the same songbook. Here's the problem: government bureaucrats across the world are determined to stifle free speech. By controlling information, globalist interests can be free to impose their utopian vision upon unsuspecting populations. Yes, the misinformation bill is dead here in Australia, but will it come back? That's the question. And what form will it take?</para>
<para>Those of us committed to freedom of speech have won a battle, but the war for the West is far from won. The major parties have turned their efforts towards social media bans coupled with mandatory identification. I will face that battle, too. For as long as I am in this Senate, I will continue to, in the words of the great Donald J Trump, fight, fight, fight. And, as Argentina's President, Javier Milei, likes to say, long live freedom!</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak in support of this urgency motion. In 1949, George Orwell wrote the dystopian classic <inline font-style="italic">Nineteen Eighty-Four</inline>, and many generations of students since then have studied this in their English classes. I think there is nothing that more distinguishes those opposite, both the Greens and Labor, from those on this side of the chamber than our respective responses to this book. Those opposite clearly, from the evidence of this bill, read <inline font-style="italic">Nineteen Eighty-Four</inline> and thought at the time: 'Wow. What a great system this is!' Those on this side of the chamber were horrified and have continued to be horrified by the concept of the Thinkpol, who control thoughts, free speech and actions on behalf of Big Brother.</para>
<para>This piece of legislation that the Labor Party put forward is not just one, two, 10 or 100 Winston Smiths sitting there in the bureaucracy, rewriting history according to the prevailing political party's truth—in that case Big Brother. Poor Mr Smith worked in the Records Department of the Ministry of Truth, and he not only had to rewrite history; he also had to identify people to ghost or, as we'd call it today, to cancel—with cancel culture. So, while this morning it was humiliating for this government to table the committee report and then exactly five seconds later withdraw this incomprehensibly bad legislation—actually, it's not incomprehensible, because it's one piece in a long line of appalling legislation that this government has tried to ram through this place.</para>
<para>As other speakers have said, this should be withdrawn permanently, and it's not just us on this side of the chamber saying that. All of us have been flooded with feedback from Australians all around the nation who have spoken up against this bill. One would have to wonder, if this bill had passed, what the thought police and the Winston Smiths of the Labor Party would have done to people who had expressed their point of view about this very legislation itself. No minister and no bureaucrat have a monopoly on truth, and we have debated many times in this chamber and in this place about what constitutes political truth. The last Labor speaker, I think, did absolutely bell the cat in terms of this legislation: what they think is the truth and what we think is misinformation—you just said it. But, as good as it is that this bill is going, it is not just those opposite that think this way.</para>
<para>For 18 months, since the government spoke about bringing this bill forward, Australians have voiced their concerns. In fact, the government received nearly 28,000 submissions against this bill and this gagging of free speech.</para>
<para>The Human Rights Commission itself sent forward a submission, and it warned that this bill needs it to be recognised that information may be opportunistically—politically opportunistically—labelled as misinformation or disinformation to delegitimise alternative opinions and to limit open discussion about issues of public importance. So I'm glad—I am so happy—that we fought to have this bill withdrawn. But it should never— <inline font-style="italic">(time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Misinformation and disinformation are dangerous. In a time when information floods in with such velocity and volume that every news report feels suspicious, particularly during unfolding events, it can be difficult to pause and consider who is delivering the information and what agenda might be driving it. This bill, however, was not the answer. Voluntary programs, such as X's—formerly Twitter's—community notes, are often effective in addressing misinformation and disinformation. Through community notes, members of the community with the time and knowledge can assess the veracity and origin of a particular post and then present their view to the rest of the community, who may not have the time or knowledge. The risk of forcing platforms to crack down on suspected misinformation and disinformation could lead to these ideas moving underground, where no regulation or oversight from the wider community creates the hazard of this misinformation and disinformation going offline and having real-world effects. The public response to this bill has been phenomenal. We saw recent submissions during the short—very short—consultation period the government had allocated to this bill from groups like the Victorian Bar Association, the Australian Electoral Commission and even the Australian Human Rights Commission, who outlined their grave concerns with the bill.</para>
<para>Outside of the government, there were almost no supporters of the bill as it was drafted. While there are some who supported the bill, this support was always qualified with various requests for amendments. Like the Help to Buy Bill and the social media ban, the government has identified a problem but proposed the wrong solution. It was a bill that the government failed to adequately consult on, but they rightfully, after much handwringing and begging, abandoned it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Removing the Communications Legislation Amendment (Combatting Misinformation and Disinformation) Bill 2024 from the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> was a humanitarian act. It's said that success has many fathers and failure is an orphan. If that's the case, I would like a paternity test on this vote, because many who are taking credit for voting down this bill only decided their vote last week. One Nation has opposed the bill since the Morrison-Liberal government first proposed this bill four years ago. One Nation has campaigned for years to raise public awareness of the human rights failures in this bill, to inspire public opinion, and we were successful. It should never have progressed to a point where democracy itself stood on a precipice. If that sounds dramatic, then you haven't read the submission to the Senate inquiry into the mad bill from the human rights and civil rights lawyers. They were scathing. How did committee members listen to three days of testimony with almost every witness calling for the bill to be scrapped yet still produce a report that said, 'Everything's fine; pass the bill.' The original decision of the committee to do just that flies in the face of the expert witnesses who the committee asked to testify. Such an action will make it harder to attract the high quality of witnesses this inquiry attracted. It's disrespectful to all concerned, and it's disrespectful to the Australian people, who expect better of this Senate.</para>
<para>I understand why the Prime Minister wants censorship—he has been community noted on X 10 times and certainly needs help with the truth. For One Nation and Australia, the Christmas present in this debacle was the way everyday Australians got involved. This was an extraordinary response and one of which Australia can be proud. I hope this is the start of an awakening to the realisation that our country, this country, is facing a bleak future of totalitarian government and economic decline unless everyday Australians take the government back from the self interests which stained this bill. One Nation will defend the human rights of every Australian—every Australian.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is an important matter of urgency because we cannot and we should not forget that this Labor government has not abandoned its ideological commitment to censoring free speech. They haven't pulled this bill because they realised how dangerous and undemocratic it was; they've pulled it because they don't have the numbers in the Senate to undertake the crackdown on free speech that they have been saying for years is a top priority for them. But what about in the next parliament?</para>
<para>What is there to stop them doing a deal with the Greens to legislate even greater restrictions on what Australians can say? If the Labor government doesn't support this motion, then Australia will go to the next election with the live prospect of a law being passed by the next parliament that says Mr Albanese and Mr Bandt will be the arbiters of what is true and what is false, of what we can and cannot say on social media. That is a terrifying thought.</para>
<para>Just look at what the Minister for Communications has been saying about this bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The time to act on harmful misinformation and disinformation is now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's number one priority is keeping our citizens and our democracy safe from harm. These laws are an important step to ensure this.</para></quote>
<para>This bill was no spur-of-the-moment thought bubble by the Labor government. It is a plan that they have been crafting and creating a narrative for throughout their entire time in power, and they have been planning for months to make this bill the priority of the last week of the parliament. The government is fully aware that it is engaging in exactly the type of behaviour practiced by authoritarian regimes around the world. On 12 July 2023, more than 16 months ago, I asked government officials in a Senate inquiry hearing whether they were aware that the term 'misinformation' is used by authoritarian regimes to censor information that they want to silence for political reasons. The response was that, yes, those government officials were aware of that, and yet the Albanese government pushed ahead with this bill, fully intending to ram the bill through this week to give itself these powers in advance of the election campaign next year.</para>
<para>Freedom of speech and the freedom to criticise the government of the day are fundamental to the protection of liberty. When the citizens are denied the right or the ability to do that, the door is open to appalling abuse and oppression. We have seen that throughout human history. Indeed, we see it today, in Tehran, in Kabul, in Moscow and Xinjiang. A government which seeks control over what you can say and even what is true and what is false is a dangerous government indeed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will now consider the proposal from Senator McKim, which is also shown at item 17 on today's Senate Order of Business:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today the Australian Greens propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">That the Albanese </inline> <inline font-style="italic">government must fully fund frontline women's safety services to at least $1 billion per year as the sector has called for to address the epidemic of men's violence against women in Australia."</inline></para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal agreements made by the whips.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">That the Albanese government must fully fund frontline women's safety services to at least $1 billion per year as the sector has called for to address the epidemic of men's violence against women in Australia.</inline></para></quote>
<para>Today is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, and we've drawn to the attention of the chamber Australia's epidemic of men's violence against women. The Greens are once again calling on the Albanese government to fully fund the frontline services that respond to and support victims-survivors fleeing violence, to at least $1 billion per year. Current Commonwealth funding is only three-quarters of the $1 billion per year that the women's safety sector says it needs to meet existing demand. This is, in effect, condemning one in four women to being turned away, back to violence.</para>
<para>The Greens today launched our election commitment of a $15 billion package to fully fund frontline services, prevention and recovery programs, and we're calling on the government to increase its investment. This is about priorities. If Labor funded just one less nuclear submarine, they would have more than the amount required to fully fund frontline services—and then some. I would hope that the Albanese government could prioritise the lives of women above one nuclear submarine.</para>
<para>As I foreshadowed this morning, and as I've done for years, I'm going to read the names of women killed by violence this year, using records kept by the volunteer organisation Counting Dead Women.</para>
<para>Their lives and their names matter: Vicky Van Aken, aged 51; Shirley So, aged 50; Mavis Stanley, aged 47; Nikkita Azzopardi, aged 35; Cheryl Davidson, age unknown; Isla Bell, aged 19; Christine Mills, aged 58; Natalie Galcsik, aged 46; Debra Hunter, aged 67; Loyla Morgan, aged 39; Jasmine Sloane, aged 35; Suzy Rackemann, aged 61; Xiaoting Wang, aged 21; Frances Crawford, aged 49; Kiesha Thompson, aged 23; Lolene Whitehand, aged 85; Kierra-Lea Jensen, aged 28; Nunia Kurualeba, aged 21; Annette Brennan, aged 67; Sarah Miles, aged 40; Carolyn McCarthy, aged 51; Annette Kiss, aged 53; Natalie Frahm, aged 34; Evette Verney, aged 61; Wanda Dorothy Uhle, aged 78; Jennifer Petelczyc, aged 59, and her daughter, Gretl Petelczyc, aged 18; Joan Drane, aged 78; Erica Hay, aged 30; Emma Bates, aged 49; Molly Ticehurst, aged 28; Yixuan Cheng, aged 27; Pikria Darchia, aged 55; Jade Young, aged 55; Dawn Singleton, aged 25; Ashlee Good, aged 38; Tara Morrison, aged 38; Hannah McGuire, aged 23; Mauwa Kizenga, aged 22; Chaithanya 'Swetha' Madhagani, age unknown; Joanne Perry, aged 53; Samantha Murphy, aged 51; Min Cho, aged 41; Amarjit Kaur Sardar, aged 41; Samira Kammalledine, aged 80; Vyleen White, aged 70; Antoinette Tozer, aged 76; Alana Martin, aged 30; Keira Marshall, aged 29; Nerol Doble, aged 65; Alison Robinson, aged 39; and 14 unnamed women aged 61, 70, 42, 37, 22, 43, 36, 77, 36, 66, in her 60s, 26, in her 60s and 42. We've got to do better by these women and their families. Please fully fund frontline support services and prevention and men's behaviour change work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Evidence tells us that the wheels of the Albanese government are not turning fast enough or in the right direction to help women and children experiencing violence. This motion demands a dollar figure in increased funding, but the deployment of funding already promised by the Albanese government will have the greatest immediate effect on addressing this scourge. Estimates uncovered that the Attorney-General's Department is still working through the funding agreements in response to the so-called Rapid Review of Prevention Approaches, recommendations finalised some two months ago. The majority of funding will not be available until 1 July next year, of course—after the next federal election—effectively kicking the much needed response down the road. Nothing is rapid about that response by anyone's measure.</para>
<para>Three thousand consultations informed the National Plan to End Violence against Women and their Children. The rapid review triggered yet more consultation. Yet the sector is almost always in unison. Today I heard directly from the Salvation Army and Homelessness Australia that, over a two week statistical snapshot just recently, 40 per cent of services closed their doors to new requests, 83 per cent of providers were unable to answer crisis calls to their service and new homelessness clients are women, children and unaccompanied young people with the primary reason for seeking help being to get help. They are unsafe in their homes because of violence.</para>
<para>Today the Northern Territory coroner, who was looking into the deaths of four women confirmed not enough is being done, especially for children who encounter violence as either victims-survivors or witnesses and, as a consequence, may also now be perpetrators. The coalition endorses the intent of Senator McKim's urgency motion as a call for greater and urgent action and is in agreement that funding is important, but effective deployment of funding must be the priority for this government, which has a track record of failing to deliver as intended. Announcements are not action. We are hearing loud and clear that prevention and early intervention is key to stop the demand for response, recovery and healing.</para>
<para>The Albanese government has found itself in this terrible situation of having to respond to crisis, some of it of its own making. This government stood by for six months while the Northern Territory alcohol restrictions were lifted before reinstatement, and locals and taxpayers are paying for it now—none more so than those vulnerable people directly impacted. Levels of crime and assault are now increasing in the Northern Territory, even with $300 million spent in Central Australia. In January 2024 there was another announcement of $3.5 million in funding to Aboriginal Hostels Ltd for the construction of up to 20 short-term beds for crisis accommodation—yet, right now, not a single bed is available. In fact, construction hasn't even started.</para>
<para>Remember, it was the Albanese government and the Australian Greens who ended the cashless debit card. On page 36 of the University of Adelaide's final report—and I quote directly, with not a single change to the words: 'CDC program cessation had negative impacts. Alcohol consumption, public intoxication and alcohol related violence rose considerably in Ceduna, East Kimberley and the Goldfields. There are declining levels of child wellbeing and welfare. Some children are not being fed or clothed properly, not attending school and being out on the streets unsupervised at night.' That is their own report. The report said increased gambling was the outcome of your handiwork in Ceduna and the East Kimberley, yet the Australian Greens have the cheek to talk about the impact of gambling in this chamber today.</para>
<para>Just like the wrong decision on the cashless debit card and the lifting of alcohol restrictions, the Australian Greens proposing an arbitrary figure in this urgency motion is not the right approach either. Family violence costs around two per cent of national GDP. In 2024 terms, that's $34 billion a year lost. The human, social and economic cost of violence requires an urgent response. Every woman killed and every woman faced with a near-death experience daily is one too many. Every child who is a victim-survivor and witness, or who goes on to become a perpetrator, is one child too many.</para>
<para>The Albanese government must follow the findings of its rapid review and act urgently to combat this epidemic that is family and domestic violence in Australia. Remember the 500-worker fiasco, from a promise by this government? Delivering on existing funding commitments is where the Albanese government's focus should be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will first take a moment to acknowledge that today is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. It marks the beginning of 16 days of activism against gendered violence. This international initiative is not just to raise awareness about the epidemic of gendered violence across the world and here in Australia; it also promotes action against it, encouraging women and men across the world to stand together against violent men. In this country, every four days a man violently murders a woman. In this country, every week, as a result of gendered violence—meaning the actions of men—15 women are hospitalised.</para>
<para>Of course, the data is worse for Aboriginal women. Seventy-one per cent of Indigenous women experience physical violence in their lifetime, with three out of five experiencing that violence at the hands of a male partner. First Nations women are 33 times more likely to be hospitalised because of gendered domestic violence than non-Indigenous women. This is an unacceptable blight on Australian society. This is a widespread problem, and it's shameful that violence against women is as common as it is today.</para>
<para>On Senator McKim's motion, I will make a point which I hope puts the scale of this problem into perspective. While these figures are disturbing to read, when you see just how many women are being hospitalised or murdered at the hands of violent male partners it's so widespread that, in fact, it's not something a single government will be able to do away with on its own. We have a shared goal with all states and territories to end violence against women and children in a generation. It remains an ongoing priority for National Cabinet and all state and federal governments to fight this crisis.</para>
<para>The reality is that this problem is deeper than legislation; it's deeper than government policy. It's an entrenched culture in this country. It is not an epidemic that the government will finish on its own. It's the responsibility of all Australians, particularly men, to reflect and call out their mates' behaviour and their parents' behaviour.</para>
<para>Members might remember that it was the Albanese Labor government which introduced paid family and domestic violence leave for women so they can have the assurance of safety without needing to worry about work. Together with state and territory governments, this government has held two National Cabinet meetings this year on gender based violence, bringing national leaders together under the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children. It was in that spirit that National Cabinet agreed on the $4.7 billion comprehensive package that harnesses opportunities for cross-governmental cooperation to tackle the crisis of gender based violence, and, through that, it was this government that invested $4 billion in over 113 different initiatives to combat violence against women.</para>
<para>We've invested $3.9 billion for our frontline legal services, which are all too often on the front lines of this violence. There's also our $32 billion plan for more housing, including for people experiencing violence. That's 4,000 new social and affordable homes for women and children impacted by family and domestic violence and $1 billion towards crisis and transitional accommodation for women and children fleeing domestic violence. Alongside the frontline legal and specialist support investments, we're investing in innovative approaches to better identify and respond to high-risk perpetrators in order to stop violence escalating. We're also looking into the role that systems and harmful industries play in exacerbating violence.</para>
<para>These are all incredible programs and initiatives which will change lives and save lives. They will be a lasting legacy of the Albanese Labor government, and quite rightly. Our government will continue to deliver activities that support action plans under the national plan, working to end gender based violence in Australia, because ending violence against women and children is everybody's responsibility. We all need to get on with the job and work together.</para>
<para>I'm proud of these reforms, as we all should be, but all these programs together will not bring an end to domestic violence. Gender based violence is not something you can legislate out of existence or throw money at. It's cultural. It's a shameful, disgraceful part of Australian culture, but, unfortunately, it's here. The most powerful change that can happen will come from men reflecting and calling out other men. There's no shame in calling out your mates. It's the right thing to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The scourge of violence against women is a pervasive issue in our society, with the disturbing and shameful statistic that one woman is killed by her partner every 11 days in this country. Women are more likely to be killed by a partner than by anyone else, making domestic violence an urgent national crisis in need of full funding. We must invest in solutions like women's shelters to provide refuge. We must support cultural change through campaigns like 'Stop it at the Start' and through community outreach. We need to continue to legislate protections such as the 10 days of domestic violence leave. Most importantly, our legal system must be resourced and informed to deal with these problems proactively, preventing harm before it becomes irreversible.</para>
<para>It is not just at home, though, that women are subjected to violence and coercion. While most abuse that workers suffer from, particularly in the retail sector, is verbal, 12 in every 100 workers have reported being physically assaulted by a customer. Sadly, it is not just customers or outsiders who inflict fear and harm. Sometimes it comes from those entrusted with leadership.</para>
<para>In the WA branch of the United Workers Union, of which I am a member, a serious allegation of sexual assault and intimidation has been made against the state secretary, Carolyn Smith. Ms Smith is alleged to have groped a member of her staff and threatened her job if she did not enter into a relationship with her. Despite these allegations now being subject to a lawsuit and an internal investigation, Ms Smith has not stood aside, nor has she been asked to stand aside. This inaction raises profound questions about the culture within the United Workers Union and its capacity to protect and support its own members.</para>
<para>When those in positions of power are allowed to operate without accountability, it sends a chilling message that dissenting voices and cries for justice can be silenced. This is not just a failure of leadership; it is a betrayal of the very values that the union is meant to uphold.</para>
<para>To all the members of the United Workers Union and every worker around Australia: I will stand by you because you deserve better. We owe it to every woman across this nation, to the women who have suffered in silence and to those who have bravely spoken up.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, and it's a day to reflect on those impacted by gender based violence. It's a day to platform the global actions being taken to protect women and children from this violence, and it's a day to remember the lives that have been lost to this violence. One life that is lost to violence against women is one life too many. It is a national shame that so many Australian women have had their lives taken or changed irrevocably because of gender based violence. There is no excuse for it, and it must be eliminated.</para>
<para>There is a genuine and really encouraging commitment across this parliament to deliver change—change that is needed for women and children—to put an end to and bring down rates of gender based violence, and to make sure that we're not just saying things need to change but that we are listening and that we are learning from the experiences of the people who are working on the front lines and the experiences of victims-survivors. We are listening, as a government, to the people who day in and day out deliver the programs and services in the community that are making a difference.</para>
<para>Last year, Minister Rishworth joined Senator Stewart and myself in a round table with organisations who do this really significant work every day in Victoria, and they told us that they want to see things get better. They also told us that it was really important to them for decision-makers to be in the room for once, listening to them, learning from their experiences and putting plans into action. This year I had the privilege of meeting with more women's organisations based at the Queen Victoria Women's Centre. Again, I heard about the absolutely life-changing support that they are providing for women, and I was also able to report back on the actions that we are taking to work to eliminate violence against women.</para>
<para>We are committed to ending gender based violence and we are committed to doing that in one generation—this generation. We have a national plan to end violence against women and children. We've held National Cabinet meetings this year, working with all governments across the country to build on and deliver this plan, and we have committed $7.7 billion in funding to combat gender based violence. We have ministers and assistant ministers across portfolios leading this work, and all these women are working every day to advance the safety and security of Australian women.</para>
<para>It's important to acknowledge the broader role that gender equality and women's economic security play in reducing gender based violence. Inequality and insecurity are both drivers of and consequences of gender based violence. Our government remains committed to an Australia where all women are treated equally, with dignity and respect. Minister Katy Gallagher has made real strides with the Working for Women strategy, outlining priority areas for this government across areas of women's economic security.</para>
<para>A priority area that I'm particularly passionate about is women's economic security. In my own work, I've seen time and time again how critical that is to the safety and the wellbeing of women. Economic inequality can prevent women from escaping or recovering from violence. It can lead to homelessness and housing insecurity, and it can prevent them from having a dignified and safe retirement. Women should never, ever have to choose between poverty and violence for themselves or for their children, and we've made real progress to strengthen the economic security of Australian women: wage rises for female dominated sectors like aged care and early childhood education; expansions to paid parental leave; paying super on top of paid parental leave; and a legislated 10 days family and domestic violence leave.</para>
<para>These are all really important pieces of work to ensure the security and safety of women. We all want women to be treated equally, we all want women to be safe, and while the government takes a lead, we know the elimination of gender-based violence is a responsibility that is shared by all of us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I echo the comments of the motion moved by my colleague Senator Waters around the fact that we must fully fund front-line women's safety services to at least $1 billion a year, as the sector have repeatedly called for this to address the epidemic of men's violence against women in Australia.</para>
<para>Three years ago I stood here in this chamber to introduce a motion for a Senate inquiry into missing and murdered First Nations women and children, and today, as I reflect on the government's lack of response to that—I urge them to act and respond to those recommendations that have been made in that report—I note that we need to give voice to those that are no longer here, those that have been left behind, and the families and the communities that I heard from during that Senate inquiry and those in the frontline who were exhausted, heartbroken, because of the women that they could not save. Our women and children are disappearing and being murdered, and most of the time they don't even get a mention in the responsible minister's media report. They are invisible to this system. Today, three years on from that, on International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women, with heavy heart, I respond to this matter with urgency and acknowledge that not a lot has been achieved since then.</para>
<para>This year 85 women have been killed across this country, at least 12 of them First Nations women, and First Nations people make up only 3.8 per cent of this population. We are being killed at disproportionate rates. These are our mothers, our daughters, our grandmothers and our colleagues. At least half First Nations women also believe that violence against women is not taken seriously, and these women who seek help from police get poor responses and are often experiencing racism. They are asked questions like, 'Why didn't you leave?' This is above petty politics and we need to act now to address what is Australia's national crisis.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today begins the 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence. This campaign is a symbol of feminist resistance. We mark this International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women in the knowledge that 66 women have been killed in 2024 by violence, predominantly men's violence against women—that's according to Counting Dead Women Australia.</para>
<para>So when will enough be enough? The system continues to fail too many women, and while the number murdered women is front and centre of most discourse of violence, we know that for every woman who is killed there are far too many others who are abused in their own homes. Yet, because there is still a desperate shortage of places in refuges, far too many women are turned away as they try to leave, many with children. Every woman turned away is a government failure.</para>
<para>The political priorities of the Labor government are all wrong when they can chuck $50 billion in subsidies to climate-wrecking fossil fuel corporations but not fully fund front-line services which need just a fraction of that money. Family and domestic violence does not occur in a vacuum. Too often, still, there is victim-blaming and gaslighting. Too often, women still are not believed. We must grapple with the reality of the patriarchy and the power imbalances that we need to dismantle. We must believe that violence against women can be stopped, and gender equity is at the core of that solution.</para>
<para>Intersectionality must also be at the heart of these solutions. First Nations women, women of colour, trans women, queer women and women with a disability face additional barriers even trying to access front-line services or navigate the legal system. Women's rights have always been hard-fought for, so this struggle goes on, because we deserve better—every woman deserves better. We deserve to feel safe and to actually be safe, no matter where we are—in parliament, in the street, at university or in our homes. To do this, we must be unapologetic feminists and anti-racists.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to remind everyone in this building that there is not just an epidemic of men's violence against women; there is an active femicide against First Nations women and girls, who are overrepresented in every statistic of harm conceivable. The only way we can understand this harm is by naming the true source of this violence: a culture and system of racial, sexual and gender based violence which has normalised the violent treatment of black women. I see the impacts of this every day in the many women and girls who come to my office for help. These are women who have been horribly abused by their white partners, who have no housing after being priced out by white settlers, whose children are being taken from them by the white man's legal system and who have been turned away from legal services that are stretched to the limit because the white politicians refuse to fund them. In the words of Aunty Vickie Roach:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's like we are refugees in our own country, on our own land. Hunted by coppers and racists alike …</para></quote>
<para>We all know that the government funding is by far not enough and that hundreds of millions of dollars of additional funding is needed. We need to fully resource Aboriginal legal services, which are inundated by requests. They are the only way for our women and girls to accept support in a culturally safe way. This national crisis needs to be addressed today, and, if you don't, then you have blood on your hands, Labor.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to ask the chamber to observe one minute of silence to remember the women and children that have been killed by violent men this year—the names read out by my colleague Senator Larissa Waters. I ask my colleagues to reflect during this time on what you can do to end gender based violence.</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">Honourable senators having joined in a minute of silence</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I rise to table the government response to the report of the inquiry into missing and murdered First Nations women and children by the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee.</para>
<para>In 2018, Kumarn Rubuntja travelled to Canberra from her tiny community of Anthepe camp, near Alice Springs. She was among a group of women who came to Parliament House to speak out about the murders of First Nations women. I met with Ms Rubuntja along with my friend and colleague Linda Burney, who was then a shadow minister. Ms Rubuntja had never been to Canberra before, but that didn't stop her speaking out for victims of family, domestic and sexual violence.</para>
<para>Her message stopped the violence. Three years later, Ms Rubuntja was murdered by her partner. She was repeatedly and deliberately run over. Today the Northern Territory coroner has handed down her findings from an inquest into Ms Rubuntja's murder and the violent deaths of three other women: Kumanjayi Haywood, Ngeygo Ragurrk and Miss Yunupingu.</para>
<para>When Coroner Elisabeth Armitage opened her inquiry in June last year, she rightly told the court:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is not somebody else's horror. This is our horror.</para></quote>
<para>She went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… as a society and as a community we are together responsible for finding a better way.</para></quote>
<para>Coroner Armitage is right—together we are responsible. First Nations women experience disproportionately high levels of violence. Nationally, First Nations women are seven times more likely to be homicide victims, and, of those women, 75 per cent are killed by a current or former partner. First Nations women are 33 times more likely to be hospitalised due to family and domestic violence than non-Indigenous women are. First Nations women in the Northern Territory experience the highest rates of gender based violence in the country. Since June this year eight First Nations women and a sistergirl have been killed in the Northern Territory. These women are not just numbers and statistics. They were daughters, sisters, mothers, aunties, grandmothers—matriarchs of our communities. Yet outside of the Northern Territory there was little or no media coverage of their violent deaths.</para>
<para>As Minister for Indigenous Australians I wish to acknowledge all First Nations women and children whose lives have been cut short through horrific acts of violence and those who are missing. As an Yanyuwa Garrwa woman, I acknowledge the women and children currently at risk, living in fear and needing protection. I acknowledge the brave survivors of family, domestic and sexual violence who made submissions to, and appeared before, the inquiry. I acknowledge the trauma, grief and pain of family members who made submissions and spoke on behalf of loved ones who were murdered or disappeared.</para>
<para>I wish to thank all committee members for their important work with this inquiry; in particular, the chair, Senator Paul Scarr, and Deputy Chair Senator Nita Green. I thank committee members for their considered and sensitive approach while conducting the hearings. I'd also like to recognise Senator Dorinda Cox for her work in calling for the establishment of this inquiry and for her campaigning and efforts in this important space. I acknowledge my friend and predecessor as Minister for Indigenous Australians, Linda Burney, who advocated for such an inquiry when we were in opposition.</para>
<para>The findings and recommendations of this important inquiry will now inform a range of work currently underway to address the appalling rates of violence against First Nations women and children. This includes informing the standalone National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan, being launched next year, which will be led by First Nations people and provide direction for future policy approaches.</para>
<para>Gender based violence is a national shame. The Commonwealth government alone cannot solve these issues. Addressing the horrific rates of murdered and disappeared First Nations women and children requires a concerted effort involving all governments and communities. States and territories have primary responsibility for law enforcement, including policing and justice system responses to family, domestic and sexual violence. In May the Prime Minister convened a National Cabinet with state and territory leaders on gender based violence and commissioned a rapid review into prevention approaches. On 6 September this year the Commonwealth states and territories, through National Cabinet, agreed to maintain a central focus on missing and murdered First Nations women and children. National Cabinet also agreed that all government commitments on gender based violence must explicitly consider the needs and experiences of First Nations people and be delivered in genuine partnership with First Nations communities.</para>
<para>The comprehensive package of $4.4 billion in new Commonwealth funding, announced on 6 September, delivers much-needed support for frontline specialist and legal services to respond to gender based violence; better identify and respond to high-risk perpetrators, to stop violence escalating; and address the role that systems and harmful industries play in exacerbating violence.</para>
<para>This investment includes $3.9 billion for the National Access to Justice Partnership, which provides ongoing funding to the legal assistance sector, including the family violence prevention legal services. Also announced was $85 million to respond to high-risk perpetrators to prevent homicide and keep women safe. This includes funding for trials of innovative models to prevent intimate-partner violence and homicide, including a Tasmanian behaviour change program for perpetrators who are the subject of a family violence order. A further $80 million boost in funding will enhance and expand child-centric, trauma informed supports with a specific focus on First Nations children and young people. That funding will prioritise the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community controlled sector, in line with the National Agreement on Closing the Gap.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is leading a range of important initiatives to respond to gender based violence, particularly through the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children 2022-2032 and the National Agreement on Closing the Gap. Last year, the government also released the first-ever Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Action Plan, which underpins the national plan, and this is supported by $194 million to fund specific actions and support the safety of First Nations women and children. The National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children sets the policy agenda for addressing violence against women and children for the next decade.</para>
<para>Through the national plan, the Commonwealth, state and territory governments have collectively committed to ending gender based violence in one generation. From next year, the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan will stand alongside the national plan, led by First Nations people. We have committed to establishing a national commissioner for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children and young people, to protect and advance the wellbeing of First Nations children across a range of issues. Applications have now closed for that role, and the commissioner will start their work in January. Strong and safe First Nations families are a key focus of the National Agreement on Closing the Gap, and, through that agreement, all governments have committed to reducing the rate of family violence and abuse against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women and children by at least 50 per cent by 2031.</para>
<para>Media organisations have an important role to play in addressing some of the issues raised in Senate inquiry. The inquiry report called for more action to recognise murdered and missing First Nations women and children, greater funding, systemic and practical changes and more respectful media coverage. During my time as a journalist, I reported on the Bowraville murders of three Indigenous children—Colleen Walker-Craig, Clinton Speedy-Duroux and Evelyn Greenup—who disappeared in 1990. I covered the story at the time, through the decades and again in 2013. The disappearances and murders, compounded by failings in the initial response, deeply affected the families and wider First Nations community in Bowraville. The families' fight for justice continues to this day. The report highlights the deep concern among First Nations people that disproportionately little media coverage is given to missing and murdered First Nations women and children.</para>
<para>To ensure the media is aware of the recommendations of this inquiry report, I have written to the Australian Press Council, copying in the Minister for Communications, the Hon. Michelle Rowland MP. I'm asking the Press Council to carefully review the relevant report recommendations of this Senate inquiry and consider providing clear and tailored guidance on coverage of missing and murdered First Nations women and children. Careful consideration of the needs of families and communities is of paramount importance in media coverage of these cases. As I've outlined, a significant amount of work is underway and ongoing with the Commonwealth's investments to end gender based violence. We are making significant ongoing investments into services that support First Nations women and children experiencing violence and will continue to drive reform at a national level through the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children and the National Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan.</para>
<para>All governments, all communities and all Australians can and must do more to put a stop to this senseless epidemic of family violence in this country. In the words of Ms Kumarn Rubuntja and countless other First Nations women: stop the violence. Yo bauji barra. Thank you.</para>
<para>I table the statement and the government's response to the report of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee on its inquiry into missing and murdered First Nations women and children. In accordance with the usual practice, I seek leave to have the government response incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee report: Missing and murdered First Nations women and children</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">NOVEMBER 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Help and Support</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This response discusses violence against women and children, missing and murdered women and children, sexual violence and racism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Free advice and support is available online and via telephone through the following services:</para></quote>
<list>1800RESPECT (1800 737 732) is available for free, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week to support people impacted by domestic, family or sexual violence.</list>
<list>13YARN (13 92 76) Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander Crisis Support</list>
<list>Beyond Blue (1300 22 4636)</list>
<list>Lifeline crisis support line (13 11 14)</list>
<list>Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800)</list>
<list>Mensline Australia (1300 78 99 78)</list>
<list>Blue Knot Foundation (1300 657 380) 9am to-5pm AEST/AEDT 7 days a week to support adult survivors of childhood trauma and abuse, parents, partners, family and friends as well as the professionals who work with them.</list>
<list>Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467)</list>
<quote><para class="block">Acknowledgement</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Government acknowledges and remembers the lives of First Nations women, children and gender-diverse people who have been disproportionately and violently disappeared and murdered. We acknowledge the trauma, grief and pain of survivors and also that of their widespread networks of families, friends and communities of support.</para>
<para>We acknowledge the physical, spiritual, mental, cultural and emotional efforts of those who have spoken out for and advocated for disappeared and murdered loved ones and those currently at risk and needing protection. We also acknowledge First Nations communities' resilience and leadership on this issue and the work of advocates, activists, community leaders and staff.</para>
<para>We acknowledge the intersectional challenges and compounding disadvantage experienced by First Nations women and girls and recognise that their roles in families and communities as caretakers and carrier of culture are central to the development, growth and diversity of Australian society. We acknowledge structural and intersectional challenges that require continued transformation of Government organisations, by requiring mainstream organisations to improve their cultural safety and responsiveness to the needs of First Nations women and girls. We acknowledge the collective effort and action needed to address this crisis and the need for a thorough and considered approach on multiple fronts with the guidance of First Nations people with lived experience.</para>
<para>We acknowledge the First Peoples of this country and recognise their continued connection to the land and seas that make up Australia. Collectively, we pay our respects to Elders, past and present. We also pay our respects to all First Nations people with a lived or living experience of violence and acknowledge the memory of all missing and murdered First Nations people, and their families, across the country.</para>
<para>Introduction</para>
<para>The Australian Government welcomes the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee's Inquiry into Missing and Murdered First Nations women and children report that was tabled on 15 August 2024.</para>
<para>The Australian Government acknowledges that action is required to ensure the safety of all First Nations women and children in Australia, including action to address the underlying systemic factors contributing to violence. First Nations women and children experience disproportionately higher rates of homicide, family, domestic and sexual violence, child removal and incarceration, and poorer outcomes across health, housing, education and employment. According to the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare (AIHW) and Australian Institute of Criminology (AIC) data, First Nations women are 33 times more likely to be hospitalised[1] and up to 7 times more likely to be homicide victims than non-Indigenous women, with almost 3 quarters killed by their current or former intimate partner.[2]</para>
<para>Addressing the issue of missing and murdered First Nations women and children requires a concerted effort, involving all governments. States and territories have primary responsibility for law enforcement and child protection, including policing and justice system responses to family, domestic and sexual violence.</para>
<para>The Australian Government is committed to the safety of First Nations women and children and is providing national leadership on a range of important initiatives to respond to discrimination, inequality and gender-based violence, particularly through the National Agreement on Closing the Gap (National Agreement) and the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children 2022-32 (National Plan).</para>
<para>The National Plan is a joint Australian, state and territory government document that sets the national policy agenda for addressing violence against women and children in Australia for the next 10 years. Through the National Plan, the Australian, state and territory governments have collectively committed to the vision of ending gender-based violence in one generation. The National Plan is supported by the dedicated Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Action Plan 2023-25, the First Action Plan 2023-2027, Activities Addendum to the First Action Plan, and the Outcomes Framework, setting the roadmap for how the Australian Government will work to achieve this vision.</para>
<list>Activities under way to support actions include:</list>
<list>building the capacity of services and systems to provide trauma-informed, connected and coordinated responses to support victim-survivors, such as through improvements to the Escaping Violence Payment.</list>
<list>improving police and justice system responses through initiatives aimed to strengthen the legal frameworks to ensure victims and survivors have improved justice outcomes and protections and building justice sector capability to better support and protect victims and survivors.</list>
<list>improving access to short-term, medium and long-term housing for women and children experiencing violence, including those living in institutional settings, and support women to stay in their own homes when they choose to do so, such as the national Keeping Women Safe in their Homes initiative which completes risk assessments, safety planning and security upgrades for women and children experiencing family and domestic violence so they can stay in their own homes, or a home of their choice, where it is safe to do so.</list>
<list>working in formal partnership with First Nations peoples to ensure policies and services genuinely meet their needs.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The National Plan acknowledges there will be emerging areas of need and emerging forms of violence that will be addressed over the life of the National Plan. New initiatives and activities to respond to emerging areas will be captured in annual updates to the First Action Plan Activities Addendum.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Action Plan 2023-2025 </inline>(Action Plan), under the National Plan, addresses current safety needs and lays a strong foundation for long-term change. The Action Plan was developed by the Department of Social Services (DSS) in partnership with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Advisory Council on Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence (Advisory Council).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A new National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan (Family Safety Plan) will provide direction on the future policy approach to addressing the unacceptable rates of violence against First Nations women and children. A public consultation process is underway, with the Family Safety Plan due to be launched in June 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 6 September 2024, National Cabinet confirmed its commitment to maintaining a central focus on missing and murdered First Nations women and children and agreed that all governments' commitments on gender-based violence must explicitly consider the needs and experiences of First Nations people and be delivered in genuine partnership with First Nations communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The comprehensive $4.7 billion package announced on 6 September 2024 through National Cabinet harnesses important opportunities to work together to prevent violence and support legal services. It brings together efforts and funding to:</para></quote>
<list>deliver much needed support for frontline specialist and legal services, including responding to gender based violence.</list>
<list>better identify and respond to high-risk perpetrators to stop violence escalating.</list>
<list>address the role that systems and harmful industries play in exacerbating violence.</list>
<quote><para class="block">This investment to end gender-based violence goes towards addressing the recommendations of the Senate Inquiry. This includes:</para></quote>
<list>$3.9 billion investment in the National Access to Justice Partnership (NAJP), which includes ongoing funding to the legal assistance sector, including the Family Violence Prevention Legal Services (FVPLS) services.</list>
<list>$85 million to respond to high-risk perpetrators to prevent homicide and keep women safe. This includes funding for trials of innovative models to prevent intimate partner violence and homicide.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government acknowledges the work of the Committee and thanks the many organisations and individuals who contributed views and evidence throughout the Inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government response to the Report was coordinated by the National Indigenous Australians Agency (NIAA) with input from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PMC) (including the Office for Women), the Attorney-General's Department (AGD), DSS, Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts (DITRDCA), eSafety Commissioner, the Department of Health and Aged Care (DOHAC), Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS), AIC, Australian Federal Police (AFP), the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT), the Department of Finance (DOF) and the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As suggested by the Committee, the Australian Government has carefully considered and reflected on the use of terminology in this matter. Throughout this response, the terminology of 'missing' and 'disappeared' is interchangeable to maintain consistency with the terminology of the Inquiry's terms of reference, but also to demonstrate our respect for First Nations' stakeholders who have undertaken outstanding work in relation to the issues considered in the Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Summary of Government response to Recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Abbreviations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government Response to Recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that federal, state and territory governments codesign with First Nations families and communities, and on behalf of all Australians, a culturally appropriate and nationally significant way in which to recognise and remember the First Nations women and children who have been murdered or disappeared.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports actions to respectfully recognise and remember First Nations women and children that have been murdered or disappeared in Australia and understands its importance. The Australian Government acknowledges the means of commemoration may be unique to each grieving family.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Inquiry heard many ways in which missing and murdered First Nations women and children could be recognised and remembered, including honouring and commemorating those loved ones by addressing the systemic causes of violence to ensure that no more First Nations women and children are murdered or disappeared. The measures discussed in this response outline the Government's commitment to action in addressing the systemic causes of violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Attorney-General tasks the Police Ministers Council to review existing police practices in each jurisdiction, consider the learnings from each jurisdiction and aim to implement and harmonise best police practices across Australia by no later than 31 December 2025, with the goal of ensuring all interactions with First Nations people are consistent and of a high standard, including standards of cultural awareness and safety. In performing this role, the committee recommends that the following practices and procedures be considered:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ongoing and mandatory cultural awareness training for all employees (that is, both sworn and civilian members);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">training courses developed and led by First Nations people, including components on lived experience, trauma-informed practice and effective communication;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">recruitment, support and promotion of First Nations people, including to senior management positions; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">appropriate guidelines for the review of past cases involving disappeared and murdered First Nations women and children where families are seeking review. These should be replicated through the justice system as recommended by the NSW State Coroner in the inquest into the death of Mona Lisa Smith and Jacinta Rose Smith (referred to in this report).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government recognises the importance of best practice in policing and acknowledges that the AFP, and state and territory police have progressed reforms to improve policing systems for First Nations people, including through a range of cultural awareness training programs for police employees (both sworn and non-sworn).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whilst the Australian Government does not have responsibility for state and territory police, including jurisdictional training, recruitment and case review practices and procedures, the Australian Government is pursuing a range of measures that seek to support states and territories to promote and implement best practice in policing across all jurisdictions. This includes working with the states and territories to develop a national training and education package, to enhance the effectiveness of state and territory police responses to family, domestic and sexual violence. The AFP also provides ongoing cultural awareness training to its employees, through programs such as the Core Leadership Continuum and SBS Inclusion Program and is currently developing a Cultural Inclusion Learning Continuum, which will include a First Nations learning framework to enhance and scale cultural awareness learning for the organisation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Justice Policy Partnership, one of 5 policy partnerships established under the National Agreement on Closing the Gap, is in the early stages of developing an anti-racism strategy for the justice system, which is one of its four strategic initiatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the Police Consultative Group on Missing Persons, the Australian Government has always and will continue to identify issues where harmonisation of best police practices can be applied.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government will raise this recommendation and work with the states and territories though the Police Ministerial Council forum but notes that any further action by jurisdictions requires the agreement of each state and territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee or the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs, or such other appropriate body, monitors progress in meeting Recommendation 2 and the progress of measures to address the issues relating to discernible data gaps (paragraph 7.11).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government acknowledges the importance of ensuring any progress in response to Recommendation 2 is appropriately monitored, noting this is a matter for the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ABS will continue working with state and territory police departments and criminal justice sector more broadly, to enhance the statistics about First Nations peoples in alignment with Closing the Gap Targets 10, 11 and 13.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government has committed to investing $15 million in a First Nations-led family, domestic and sexual violence data collection to address the current data gaps in understanding the prevalence of all types of violence experienced by First Nations women and children. This will provide new data to report progress on Target 13 of the National Agreement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Performance Measurement Plan of the National Plan identifies key performance indicators to measure and report on progress over the life of the National Plan. It includes measures related to police and justice system interactions with First Nations peoples within the context of responding to family, domestic and sexual violence. Work is being undertaken to fill data gaps in these measures. In 2024-25, the AIHW commenced a 2-year program of work on Child Protection National Minimum Data Set data development with jurisdictions. This work will consider a range of possible enhancements and development opportunities, including the capture of information related to family and domestic violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Data and Digital Ministers Meeting (DDMM) oversees implementation of National Cabinet's Intergovernmental Agreement on data sharing between the Australian Government and states and territories, which commits all jurisdictions to share public sector data by default where it is safe, secure, lawful and ethical to do so. DOF supports DDMM and provides support to PMC, AGD, DSS and other relevant agencies, with advice on best practice data sharing between the Australian Government and states and territories.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Commonwealth government appoints a First Nations person with specific responsibility for advocating on behalf of and addressing violence against First Nations women and children within the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission. Detailed consideration should be given to the way in which the position is created within the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission (for example, should it be Commissioner or Deputy Commissioner level), the powers of such position and the necessary funding for such position to maximise effectiveness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reform Area One of the Action Plan includes the action to investigate the potential for a scoping and feasibility study for an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Commissioner. This scoping will be progressed as part of the development of the Family Safety Plan, in the context of the First Nations Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Peak (a funded action under the Action Plan) and Sector Strengthening Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Assistant Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commissioner is an identified role, and is currently responsible for engaging and working alongside First Nations communities in supporting the role of the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commissioner in the monitoring and oversight of the National Plan. Monitoring of the progress of the National Plan includes the Action Plan and will include the Family Safety Plan once completed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian government urgently gives effect to the relevant recommendations in the Independent Review of the National Legal Assistance Partnership 2020–2025, in particular Recommendations 2–3, 9 and 11–12, and specifically addresses the need to increase the geographic spread and capacity of Family Violence Prevention Legal Services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 6 September 2024, the Australian Government announced an investment of $3.9 billion for frontline legal assistance services to be delivered through the NAJP, including a critical increase of nearly $800 million over five years, with a focus on uplifting legal services responding to gender-based violence. The NAJP will commence on 1 July 2025, on the expiry of the current National Legal Assistance Partnership (NLAP), and will include, for the first time, Family Violence Prevention Legal Services (FVPLS).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the NAJP, FVPLS providers will receive quarantined and additional funding to deliver critical frontline services to First Nations women and children. The Heads of Agreement also contains a commitment from all governments to work in partnership over the first 2 years to develop a Closing the Gap schedule (or similar) with ACCOs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Final details of the NAJP are being finalised between the Australian Government, states and territories, in close consultation with the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Social Services, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, the Attorney-General's Department and the National Indigenous Australians Agency develop, for implementation, a sustainable funding mechanism to provide ongoing support services for First Nations people, including women and children, experiencing domestic, family and sexual violence. This funding must prioritise service and program delivery by Aboriginal community-controlled organisations who demonstrate evidence-based primary prevention initiatives that are independently evaluated for efficacy, including for delivery in regional and remote areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All parties to the National Agreement (Commonwealth, states & territories, the Coalition of the Peaks and the Australian Local Government Association) have acknowledged that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community-controlled led services are better for First Nations peoples, achieve better results, employ more First Nations peoples and are often preferred over mainstream services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This has been supported by the Productivity Commission in its Review of the National Agreement on Closing the Gap (February 2024) which highlighted services delivered by ACCOs lead to better outcomes for First Nations peoples.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As announced on 6 September 2024, the Australian Government is investing $3.9 billion in support for frontline legal assistance services to be delivered through the NAJP, including a critical increase of nearly $800 million over five years from 2025-26, with a focus on uplifting legal services responding to gender-based violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NAJP will continue to include quarantined funding for Aborigina and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services and, for the first time, will include a quarantined funding stream for FVPLS. This represents an ongoing funding mechanism for the FVPLS, providing certainty for these critical ACCOs.lIn the 2023-24 Budget, the Australian Government committed $262.6 million to support the dedicated Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Action Plan and early investment into a standalone National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan. This included $103.4 million of funding through 4 immediate priority grant rounds for crisis accommodation services, family, domestic and sexual violence programs in ACCOs, men's wellness centres, and community prevention campaign for children that will be delivered by Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Organisations around Australia. This supports the longer term of objective of building the ACCO sector.sThe DSS <inline font-style="italic">National Child and Family Investment Strategy </inline>(Investment Strategy) is supporting the shift towards adequate and coordinated funding of early, targeted, healing-informed culturally safe support services that are effective in supporting children and families and delivered by ACCOs. The Investment Strategy is Activity 2(a) of the <inline font-style="italic">Safe and Supported: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander First Action Plan 2023-2025 </inline>and aims to build the ACCO child and family sector through commissioning investment strategies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Women's Alliance (NATSIWA) is one of the National Women's Alliances funded under the Working for Women Program to advocate for women and advise Australian Government policymakers on policies that affect women.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">NATSIWA's key functions include engaging with First Nations women, community and organisations; providing advice to government including through input to government inquiries, consultations and policy papers; and collaborating with other Alliances on intersecting policy issues of priority to First Nations women including family, domestic and sexual violence. On 29 October 2024, the Minister for Women announced that NATSIWA will continue to receive funding until 2028-29 as a National Women's Alliance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the eSafety Commissioner, First Nations organisations have been funded to design and develop culturally appropriate resources, including videos, to help First Nations individuals and communities recognise, report and respond to tech-based abuse in a variety of situations, including in family, domestic and sexual violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Preventing Tech-based Abuse of Women Grants Program, implemented by the eSafety Commissioner, delivers a total of $10 million in grant funding over at least three rounds. The intent of the program is to fund projects that focus on the prevention of online harms and enhanced safety for women and children. This may include projects that target people who perpetrate tech-based abuse and/or changing norms, attitudes and behaviours in the broader community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2023, the first round of funding awarded $3 million, and the second round of funding will be opened in late 2024. Of the $3.5 million in total funding available in Round 2, up to $600,000 has been set aside to support priority funding of projects that directly target tech- based abuse of women in First Nations communities. This recognises that First Nations people are more at risk of online hate and serious online harm than non-Indigenous people and that First Nations women have a higher risk of experiencing family violence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Preventing Tech-based Abuse of Women Gran s Program and the First Nations funding stream will also contribute to Recommendation 10 and initiatives which promote a sense of individual and community responsibility for the issue of male violence against First Nations women.t.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian government empowers First Nations women to lead the design and implementation of services and supports that address violence in their communities, as consistently advocated by the Wiyi Yani U Thangani (Women's Voices) project, and reflecting the principles contained in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Support</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is committed to progressing meaningful programs and policies that empower all First Nations peoples and is committed to listening and working in partnership with First Nations peoples and communities on policies that impact them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports the principles underlying the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People (UNDRIP), which it recognises as an expression by the international community of respect for the dignity of Indigenous peoples.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The complexity of family, domestic and sexual violence in First Nations communities requires the inclusion of all community voices, led by First Nations women. This is supported through Action 7 of the <inline font-style="italic">First Action Plan 2023-2027 </inline>as well as the Action Plan. The work of the <inline font-style="italic">Wiyi Yani U Thangani (Women's Voices) Project </inline>is a key input that informed the context, principles and targets of the Action Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Action Plan was developed through a formal partnership between the Australian Government and the Advisory Council. The Advisory Council was established in July 2021 and consists of First Nations women and men with expertise in family, domestic and sexual violence from established First Nations organisations including Victorian Aboriginal Child and Community Agency (VACCA), SNAICC—National Voice for our Children (SNAICC) and National Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Organisation (NACCHO).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, an expert Steering Committee which includes 12 First Nations members with expertise and experience in addressing family and domestic violence, and government representatives are leading the development of the Family Safety Plan which will be the first standalone First Nations National Plan to address family, domestic and sexual violence and a sister-document to the National Plan. SNAICC is providing secretariat support to the Steering Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The development of the Action Plan and Family Safety Plan have been guided by the voices and findings of extensive consultation with community that has been led by First Nations researchers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government released <inline font-style="italic">Working for Women: A Strategy for Gender Equality </inline>(Working for Women) on 7 March 2024. Working for Women outlines the Australian Government's vision for gender equality—an Australia where people are safe, treated with respect, have choices, and have access to resources and equal outcomes no matter their gender.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's implementation of this Strategy will be guided by six principles, including a principle that efforts to drive gender equality must be inclusive and intersectional, and a principle that First Nations Australians must lead efforts to achieve gender equality for their communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are specific areas identified for action for women that experience heightened barriers to equality. This includes considering improvements to how the family law system responds to victim-survivors, including ensuring cultural safety for First Nations victim-survivors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Strategy integrates and complements existing efforts across each of its priority areas and seeks to respond to the needs of First Nations women and girls, while working alongside actions and frameworks for First Nations gender justice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government commits to ensuring First Nations women are central to the design and implementation of services and supports to address violence in their communities. This includes, through DOHAC, the implementation of culturally safe, trauma informed, First Nations led designed and delivered maternal health activities such as Birthing on Country models of care which provide holistic wrap around services for First Nations women and infants (which are often inclusive of domestic and family violence support or referral pathways).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">•   the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) gives serious consideration to auditing the Attorney-General’s Department (noting the independence of the ANAO), as part of its Annual Audit Work Program 2025–2026, to assess whether the department is effectively delivering on the commitments agreed by the Australian government under the:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">o   National Agreement (in particular, Target 13);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">o   National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children 2022–2032;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">o   Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Action Plan 2023–25;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">o   the First Nations National Plan, once in effect; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">•   not later than six months after the conclusion of any ANAO audit, the Senate directs the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee or the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs to consider the ANAO's findings and assess the Attorney-General's Department's response to the audit. In the event that the ANAO declines to undertake the audit, then another independent body should be tasked with conducting the audit on the basis referred to above.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As an independent officer of the Parliament the Auditor-General's responses to parliamentary committee recommendations directed to the ANAO are not included as part of the government response. The ANAO has provided a response to this recommendation directly to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Press Council considers and reflects on the evidence given in this inquiry, with regard to how the media portrays cases of murdered and disappeared First Nations women and children, and considers how the concerns of First Nations communities and families can be positively addressed, including through the introduction of additional Standards or Advisory Guidelines or amendment of the existing Standards and Advisory Guidelines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Press Council is an independent organisation. The Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator the Hon Malarndirri McCarthy, will write, copying the Minister for Communications, the Hon Michelle Rowland MP, to the Australian Press Council to ensure it is aware of this recommendation in the Report.</para></quote>
<para>Recommendation 10</para>
<para>The committee recommends that the Australian government systematically considers the many recommendations and suggestions made to this inquiry. This includes recommendations relating to:</para>
<para>• trauma informed healing, including the recommendations made by the Healing Foundation and White Ribbon Australia;</para>
<para>• implementation of a violence prevention framework for men and boys;</para>
<para>• development of Aboriginal community-based support programs for men; and</para>
<para>• initiatives which promote a sense of individual and community responsibility for the issue of male violence against Aboriginal women.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Support in principle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the recommendations and suggestions made by the inquiry and will consider their implications for policy and program development including in the development of the standalone Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Family Safety Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 6 September 2024, National Cabinet agreed several initiatives to better identify high-risk perpetrators, share information about them across systems and state boundaries, and intervene earlier to stop violence escalating.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This included development of new national best-practice family and domestic violence risk assessment principles and a model best-practice risk assessment framework. DSS is leading delivery of this initiative which involves working in close consultation with a range of stakeholders. This includes First Nations people and communities, to support specific</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">consideration of the application of project outputs to this cohort, recognising the unique, complex and intersecting nature of the ways in which family and domestic violence is experienced by First Nations peoples.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">T e Supporting Adolescent Boys Trial is an early intervention program that seeks to provide tailored support to young men and adolescent boys who have experienced family and domestic violence to help them recover, heal and avoid choosing to use violence themselves. One trial site in Broome, Western Australia will be focused on supporting First Nations young men and boys. A second First Nations dedicated trial site will be established in the Northern Territory in early 2025. In establishing the trial, providers are encouraged to conduct consultation within the first 3 months of the grant activity period with local community members, Elders and cultural authorities, partners and other service organisation to ensure the trial is delivered in an appropriate way within the trial site.hThis approach is aligned with the Action Plan, which recognises that actions to address gender-based violence should include all men; to create better emotional, spiritual and cultural wellbeing for men, their families and the community. In addition, First Nations men must be supported to lead healing work with men and boys, empowering them to regain their dignity, determination, health and wellbeing, and engagement as positive community role models.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government committed $27 million over 5 years (2022-23 to 2026-27) to work in partnership with state and territory governments to apply innovative approaches to address family, domestic and sexual violence perpetrator behaviour. Six states and territories (ACT, NSW, NT, SA, Victoria and WA) are undertaking at least one project (scoping study or trial) with a focus on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander populations. Projects include dedicated consideration of the needs and experiences of First Nations communities and are being developed in collaboration with or led by ACCOs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the government urgently acts to provide sufficient funding, including through additional National Legal Assistance Partnership support, to deliver and expand First Nations led community services that are able to provide advocacy and support services to assist First Nations women to report incidents of violence and threats of violence to police in a way they will be both respected and heard.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendation 5 and 6 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the position on the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission should be that of a Commissioner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendation 4 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government works with First Nations communities to develop an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander violence prevention framework for men and boys.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendation 10 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That an alternative body to the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs be developed for measuring progress regarding the development of harmonised best police practices across federal, state, and territory police forces (Recommendation 2 in the majority report).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendations 2 and 3 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government works with the United Nations’ existing formal mechanisms for gender and Indigenous rights to provide international oversight over Australia’s progress on the issue of missing and murdered First Nations women and children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As stated in UNDRIP, all First Nations women and children are entitled to enjoy full protection and guarantees against all forms of violence and discrimination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a party to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (Convention), Australia has an obligation to periodically report on the legislative, judicial, administrative or other measures adopted in the implementation of the Convention. Periodic reporting occurs every 4 years and Australia will submit its ninth periodic report to the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (Committee) in 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following submission of the report, Australia will be invited to appear before the Committee who will seek clarification or elaboration of any issue referred to in the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government and state and territory governments provide input into the report, in addition to the Australian Government conducting a public consultation period prior to submitting the report to the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia engages bilaterally with key countries including the United States and Canada to discuss these issues in United Nations mechanisms including at the United Nations Permanent Forum for Indigenous Issues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government develops clear, best practice policies for the timely provision of information, including autopsy results and coroners’ reports, to the families of missing and murdered women and children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government recognises the importance of autopsy results and coroners' reports being provided in a timely, culturally safe and trauma informed manner, to support the families of missing and murdered women and children engage in the justice system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The duties, procedures and reporting requirements of coroners are legislated in each state and territory. Any reform to legislation or related policies would be a matter for state and territory governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government ensures that specialised resources for missing persons casesareused,andthatculturalsafetyandtrauma-informedprotocolsareincorporatedinto police procedures.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government acknowledges that states and territories have primary responsibility for missing person cases. Incorporating cultural safety and trauma-informed protocols into police practices would be a matter for state and territory police, as outlined in the Government Response to Recommendations 2 and 3 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the Commonwealth level, the AGD has engaged the Australia New Zealand Policing Advisory Agency (ANZPAA) as project manager responsible for the development and implementation of the Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Law Enforcement Training Measure. ANZPAA's 'Anti-Racism and Cultural Diversity Principles' will inform both the development and content of the training.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government develops targets around the elimination of racial profiling and the identification of victims and perpetrators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is developing the Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Law Enforcement Training Measure, which will help address identifying both the person in most need of protection and the primary aggressor to reduce instances of misidentification.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">Additionally, the training will address unconscious bias and its impact on policing, and identifying and managing personal, organisational and societal biases and perceptions. There is also work underway through the Justice Policy Partnership to develop a national Anti- Racism Strategy for the justice sector, focused on addressing racism against First Nations peoples.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government provides support for First Nations community services, to provide advocacy to assist First Nations women to report violence and threats.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendation 6 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 10</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government clearly defines the data-points that we expect from each jurisdiction and places targets on their effective collection and availability across the network.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is consulting with states and territories to determine priorities for addressing gaps, including state and territory level data that can be supplied to establish a national picture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the AFP led National Missing Persons Coordination Centre there is a continued commitment to standard data collection on missing persons from states and territory jurisdictions and the use of that data to derive insights to better inform agency responses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Please see the Government Response to Recommendation 3 of the majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 11</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government develops a stand-alone national plan of action, including best practice policing processes and measurement against Target 13 of the Closing the Gap agenda.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To address Target 13 of the National Agreement, including measures to combat the prevalence of missing and murdered First Nations women and children, the Australian Government is committed to delivering the Family Safety Plan. Once delivered in June 2025, the Family Safety Plan will be a signature piece of policy that will guide a whole of society approach to addressing the unacceptable rates of violence against First Nations women and children. Targeted engagement with key Commonwealth agencies will begin shortly to ensure that achievable actions to implement best practice policing processes and measurement against Target 13 of the National Agreement are incorporated into the Family Safety Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The AGD is currently working with the states and territories to develop the Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence Law Enforcement Training Measure for police across all jurisdictions. The Training Measure will work towards implementing best practice policing processes and measures against Target 13 of the National Agreement. Where appropriate the Australian Government will incorporate activities planned for the Training Measure within the Family Safety Plan, to actively support its development and implementation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government reviews and tables a comprehensive report detailing the connection between missing and murdered First Nations women and children and the failure to implement the outstanding recommendation of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody and Bringing Them Home report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with the central finding of the Royal Commission, the Australian Government is taking a system-wide approach to reducing the unacceptably high number of First Nations peoples entering prison and youth detention, including through its justice reinvestment programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the 2022-23 Budget, the Australian Government committed $81.5 million to expand and establish justice reinvestment initiatives to improve justice outcomes for First Nations peoples. An additional $10 million over four years was committed in the 2023-24 Budget for the Justice Reinvestment in Central Australia Program. These investments will enable communities to design and implement initiatives to reduce contact with the criminal justice system through prevention, early intervention and rehabilitation.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to the commitment to justice reinvestment, on 21 June 2023, the Australian Government established a national real-time reporting of deaths in custody dashboard, to bring additional transparency and accountability to this serious issue. The dashboard can be accessed on the Australian Institute of Criminology's website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The 2018 Deloitte Access Economics Review of the implementation of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, found that the Commonwealth had fully or partially implemented 222 of the 223 recommendations for which it was responsible (including where there was shared responsibility with jurisdictions), with 91 per cent mostly implemented, and 74 per cent fully implemented.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government accepts these findings, and the NIAA continues to work with partners through its policy and programs to address issues raised by the Royal Commission relating to reforming the justice system, self-determination, empowerment and the socio- economic drivers of crime (housing, jobs, education and health).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Greens Recommendation 13</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Australian government publicly commits to fully implementing the recommendations of the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs on the UN Declaration for the Rights of Indigenous People.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is carefully considering the report and recommendations of the Inquiry into the application of the UNDRIP in Australia.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>This report was not a landmark achievement. It was a continuation of the very violence it claimed to address. It was a disgraceful performance by a colonial state that would rather conceal its sins than hold itself accountable. It refused to call the murders and disappearances of our women and girls for what they are—femicide and genocide. It ignored the government, state agent, police and media complicity in the disappearances and murders of our women, sister girls, daughters and mothers. This report did not uncover the current crisis; it buried it.</para>
<para>Amy McQuire, a proud Darumbal and South Sea Islander woman, speaks truth when she says, 'State behaviours create a culture where violence against Indigenous women is free of consequences.' Here, the police, media and state institutions got off scot-free, and the white perpetrators are painted as acts of random violence. This is creating a culture of impunity for the violence against First Nations women and girls. The worst part is the committee was explicitly warned by First Nations women who are experts in that field that their inquiry was gammon, that the terms of reference were not good enough and that, if they did not change them, they would retraumatise the families involved and deliver bad recommendations, and the murders and disappearances would continue. That is exactly what has happened.</para>
<para>The first recommendation was a call for a nationally significant way in which to recognise and remember those killed without even providing a pathway to end future murders—as if that will make a difference. We saw Kevin Rudd's apology back in 2011. 'Sorry' means you don't do it again, yet the Labor government is currently overseeing and creating a whole new stolen generation.</para>
<para>Professor Watego said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Grieving families are not asking you to keep better count of our dead, or seeking commemorations and condolences for our losses … These families want justice for racial and gendered violence against Indigenous women. These families want accountability and safety for our communities now.</para></quote>
<para>This inquiry betrayed grieving families. I was told that the committee failed to create safe spaces for the families to speak. I heard they were retraumatised, alienated and ignored. Many opted out, knowing their voices would be silenced in the deafening roar of colonial indifference.</para>
<para>The outcomes of this committee inquiry are in stark contrast to the Canadian inquiry, which the committee had the benefit of reviewing. The colony of Canada actually did some truth-telling. Fundamentally, the Canadian inquiry recognised the violence against First Nations women and girls for what it is—a genocide. The Canadian committee said that it's a genocide. This committee didn't go near genocide or femicide. The Canadian committee addressed the root causes rather than the surface level symptoms, centred First Nations voices and leadership and aimed for systemic transformation, not incremental reform.</para>
<para>The Canadian inquiry presented over 200 recommendations grounded in human rights and aimed to dismantle the structures enabling colonial violence.</para>
<para>It called for First Peoples' self-determination and emphasised that colonial structures must not dictate solutions, advocating for community led programs and funding controlled by First Peoples. It called for First Peoples led justice, including a complete overhaul of policing and justice systems. What does this government do? They fund the cops! They fund the prisons! We want First Peoples oversight of police services. It called for alternatives to incarceration that prioritise healing and community based approaches, for the need to address socio-economic inequalities and for ongoing support for the families of missing and murdered women, including access to legal aid, healing services and platforms for them to share their stories without retraumatisation.</para>
<para>But here in so-called Australia, after almost three years, the gammon legal and constitutional affairs committee inquiry managed to put forward just 10 recommendations. Canada do 200, with First Nations people at the helm making the decisions—self-determined by us—and this gammon lot do 10 recommendations. It's shameful! They are 10 mostly superficial, vague recommendations that include harmonising best police practices, cultural awareness training and more black cops, as if more prisons and harmonised cops will end the genocide. Are you going to try and make the cops better? What a joke! This lack of accountability creates a culture of impunity and gives the green light for the murders and disappearances to continue.</para>
<para>It is also important to point out how the media is part of the violence. I hear the minister talk about the role of the media and say that a letter has been written—great! I love those letters; keep them going! The media dehumanise us, criminalise us in their reporting, make us appear unworthy of protection, care or accountability and send a whistle to the violent racists out there that they do not have to be scared of consequences. The racial and gendered violence that is perpetrated against our women and girls today is the same systemic and colonial violence perpetrated since invasion and the frontier wars, where rape and murder of our women and girls was routine.</para>
<para>This is not just about the past; it is about our collective future. We will not wait for justice. We will organise, demand and create it. Liberation will not be given; it must be seized.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise in support of the motion to take note of the document. Can I say—through you, Acting Deputy President Hughes—how grateful I am that the minister responded in such an efficient and quick manner, with great alacrity. Sometimes the Senate does these reports and the recommendations are made, and then we hear nothing for months and months—potentially for years. I think it is a very positive reflection on the minister that she responded to the recommendations contained in this report in a very quick way. I think the statement that was delivered demonstrates a degree of empathy and understanding in relation to the very difficult subject matter which the committee had to consider.</para>
<para>Once again, I place on the record my thanks to all committee members and my thanks to the secretariat and Broadcasting who were involved in the conduct of this inquiry as well. It was very, very difficult evidence, and a lot of thought was put into the recommendations which were made. I hope, as I'm sure we all do, that this can be a positive step in the journey of trying to address these extraordinarily important issues.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>100</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee, Department of Education, Independent Review of Commonwealth Funding for Strategic Policy Work, Department of the Treasury, Avoca Drive Upgrade Project, Digital Transformation Agency, Order for the Production of Documents</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to orders for the production of documents concerning bank closures in regional Australia, wage increases for early childhood educators and care workers, the childhood education and care report, the review into Commonwealth funding for strategic policy work, correspondence relating to the tax laws amendment incentivising food donations to charitable organisations built 2024, Avoca Drive upgrade project and the data digital strategy implementation metrics framework.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I take note of those documents and seek leave to continue my remarks later</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I take note of the documents in relation to the Avoca Drive upgrade project and in relation to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee inquiry into the closure of branches.</para>
<para>The first thing I will talk about is Avoca Drive. Last week the Senate asked the Albanese government for the business case, including colour-coded spreadsheets that justified the expenditure of $100 million for Avoca Drive. I know that the Labor Party take infrastructure spending very seriously, because when the Morrison government spent $30 million on acquiring the last piece of the Leppington Triangle, and that $30 million was spent on 30 acres of land—you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that one acre is worth $1 million, and one acre is about 4,044 square metres, or about 500 square-metre blocks. If you quickly do the sums you will realise that that was about was about paying about $12,500 for every 500 square metres of land. I don't think there is anywhere in the Sydney basin that you could buy a block of land for that, yet the Labor Party was claiming that the Morrison government paid too much for the Leppington Triangle. That wasn't the case for the reason I just laid out—there is nowhere in Sydney you can get 500 square metres of flat land for $12,500.</para>
<para>Having said that, the Leppington Triangle was for the Western Sydney airport, a critical piece of nation-building infrastructure that needed to be bought so we could finish the airport and get this country moving again. On the other hand, what we've got here is expenditure of $100 million—three times the amount of money spent on acquiring the last 30 acres needed for the Western Sydney airport—for Avoca Drive, which is a state road. It's not a federal road. The now federal government—the then opposition—committed $30 million to that road on a fifty-fifty partnership with the New South Wales government at the last election, and then suddenly last year in January 2023 they have gone and allocated another $70 million. This piqued my interest because I know that the Morrison government was strewn over the coals for spending $30 million on the Western Sydney airport. I might add that my former colleague and still friend Senator Bridget McKenzie was strewn over the hot coals for her colour-coded spreadsheets, so I think it's only fair that the Labor Party also provide their business case for spending $100 million on a state road, particularly the $70 million increase in funding that wasn't matched by the New South Wales government.</para>
<para>I find it quite interesting that the federal government, when we've got a cost-of-living issue and a lot of constraints on the budgets can suddenly find $100 million for Avoca Road that does lead to Copacabana Beach—you can draw your own conclusions there. I'm very disappointed to say that the reply we got today from the Albanese Labor government was that the federal government did no business case whatsoever; they just suddenly decided to put another $70 million on top of the initial $30 million for a road based on a business case from the New South Wales government.</para>
<para>I've put in another notice of motion—it should appear tomorrow or the day after on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>—for the production of all correspondence between the New South Wales government and the federal government. That's because I want to know why the Albanese government decided to up the ante on this expenditure without getting a similar commitment from the New South Wales government. It seems odd to me that the New South Wales government would go to the federal government without being prepared to stump up their own money. Did the Albanese government go to the New South Wales government and say, 'We need to build this road,' and the New South Wales government turn around and say, 'No, we don't,' or, 'We only need to put in $30 million each'? Why did the Albanese Labor government decide to put an extra $70 million into this road that leads to Copacabana Beach and the very house that the Prime Minister recently bought?</para>
<para>There need to be answers on this issue and this funding, and we need to see the business case. I want to see the federal government's business case. They claim they didn't do one. Well, my question is: why didn't the federal government do a business case? At the end of the day, it's taxpayers' money paid to the federal government, so the federal government should have a business case. They can't just tick and flick on a New South Wales government business case, especially when the New South Wales government wasn't prepared to put in more than $30 million. I think the Albanese Labor government needs to come clean—very, very clean—on this, because I'm starting to smell a bit of a whiff here.</para>
<para>The other thing we've had an order for the production of documents on is to see whether the Albanese Labor government has responded to the report of the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs References Committee inquiry into bank closures in regional Australia. This would have to have been one of the most widely followed Senate inquiries during the term of the Albanese Labor government. It had an enormous amount of media attention because people are rightly concerned about the closure of branches in the regions. As we found out, it's not just in the regions; there's even a lot of angst in metropolitan communities about the closure of local branches. People are fed up to the back teeth, whether it's big government or big business that's screwing the little guy.</para>
<para>That's what we're seeing now. Let's take insurance. It's not quite banking but it's similar in the sense that it was all privatised in the 1990s. When you get on the phone wanting customer service you're listening to waltzes and hitting numbers trying to get through to someone who'll actually speak to you, because you can't get any service anymore. I've had this happen to me. I like to go to the branch and stand in a line playing on my phone and then getting some face-to-face service—I'm a bit old-fashioned like that, I'll admit. But when it comes to complex administrative issues that are messy, things like internet banking just don't cut it. I've done this a number of times. I've gone to the bank and they've said: 'No, we can't serve you. You've got to ring this number.' You're shunted back to the telephone to ring someone in a capital city, in some business centre somewhere. I live in an outer metropolitan region and I can assure you that, while I can probably live with this, people in the regions can't.</para>
<para>When we were doing this Senate inquiry, we were at one town in Western Australia where they had to do a 300-kilometre round trip to go and see their local bank manager. That was a prosperous town of 2½ thousand people—not the world's biggest town, I accept, but still an important town in the great state of WA, which punches above its weight in delivering wealth for this country. These people are entitled to have access to a bank where they can get face-to-face service.</para>
<para>That's the guts of the issue, but what I want to know is: why is the Albanese government not responding to this very, very important Senate inquiry about the delivery of very, very important essential services? I'll tell you why. It's because Labor, when it comes to financial services in this country, have blood on their hands. It was none other than Paul Keating who privatised the Commonwealth Bank. I can assure you that Ben Chifley would be rolling in his grave if he knew what the Labor Party had become after his death. So I say to the Labor Party—those on the other side of the chamber: What is it that you're hiding? Why can't you respond to the report of this very important Senate inquiry?</para>
<para>This inquiry has called for the creation of a public bank—like we used to have with the CBA—to provide a bit of ethical competition and a bit of service competition to the private banks, who, in the last 30 years, have shut something like 3,000 branches. The branch network has declined by something like 65 or 70 per cent, and it's still declining. Weigh that up against the fact that, in that time, Australia's population has almost doubled. Back in 1993 or 1994, when the CBA was privatised, Australia had a population of about 15 million; we now have a population of 27 million, and we have about 60 or 70 per cent fewer branches out there. Let's not forget: the banks got bailed out during the GFC and they got bailed out during COVID. I think the least we can expect is some sort of service delivery from the banks themselves and some accountability and transparency from the Albanese Labor government, before their term ends, as to what they're going to do about this critical issue.</para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>102</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Sydney Airport Demand Management Amendment Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (Mergers and Acquisitions Reform) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7269" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7256" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Sydney Airport Demand Management Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7257" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Mergers and Acquisitions Reform) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>McCARTHY (—) (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">customs tariff amendment (incorporation of proposals and other measures)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals and Other Measure) Bill 2024 amends the <inline font-style="italic">Customs Tariff Act 1995</inline> to incorporate the measures in two customs tariff proposals moved in the House of Representatives in July this year. The Bill also makes certain minor technical amendments to the Customs Tariff Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first set of amendments in the Bill are consistent with the alterations made by Customs Tariff Proposal (No. 1) 2024, moved in the House of Representatives on 3 July 2024. These amendments repeal the general rates of duty for over 450 tariff classifications and replaces the rates with 'Free'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These tariff classifications were selected because most importers were applying relevant tariff concessions or free trade agreement preferential rates, which effectively reduced the 5 per cent duty rate to a 'Free' rate of duty. Eliminating customs duty for these classifications will reduce business compliance costs and make it easier to import a range of goods including toothbrushes, electric blankets, washing machines and a range of clothing and footwear. This is the largest unilateral tariff reform in two decades. The 'Free' rate of duty for these tariff classifications applied from 1 July 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendments will also be made to the corresponding free trade agreement preferential rates to ensure they are not higher than the general rate of duty. This ensures that importers utilising free trade agreements are not disadvantaged by the unilateral reduction of the general rate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second set of amendments are consistent with the alterations made by Customs Tariff Proposal (No. 2) 2024, also moved in the House of Representatives on 3 July 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments extend the 'Free' rate of customs duty applied to goods that are the produce or manufacture of Ukraine. As a result, goods from Ukraine will continue to benefit from a 'Free' rate of duty until 3 July 2026. This 'Free' rate of duty applies to all Ukrainian goods, except for excise-equivalent goods (being petroleum, fuel, tobacco and alcohol products).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The extension of the concessional treatment supports Ukraine's continued participation in international trade. The tariff concession is one part of Australia's package of defence, economic and humanitarian support and a sign of our ongoing and steadfast support for Ukraine and its people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The third set of amendments are technical amendments, which repeal spent phasing rates and associated provisions. Phasing rates are customs duty rates that incrementally reduce to 'Free' over a specified period of time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A number of the phasing rates in Schedules 3, 10 and 11 to the Customs Tariff Act have incrementally reduced to 'Free'. The increments are now redundant and no longer required in the text of the Customs Tariff Act. The repeal of these provisions will simplify the text without altering the operation of the Act or the duty rates applied to any goods.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">sydney airport demand management amendment bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government is undertaking the most significant reforms to Australian aviation in a decade to drive competition, improve consumer outcomes and boost resilience. This Bill takes the next step in that reform process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In February this year, a major package of reforms to the Sydney Airport demand management scheme was announced, improving the use of this significant piece of national infrastructure while maintaining community protections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since announcement of these reforms, the work of implementation has begun.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The first slot audit is well underway, with findings to be released in coming months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And, importantly, an open tender is underway to contract the slot manager, including stronger independence requirements to manage real and perceived conflicts of interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill takes the next step in implementing Sydney Airport reforms to deliver better outcomes for the Australian travelling public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's busiest airport, Sydney Airport, is our major international gateway to the world and a critical hub for the national aviation network.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Located in the heart of Australia's biggest city, Sydney Airport poses a number of challenges and community impacts that are not shared with other Australian airports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is capacity constrained, it has no room to expand, and it is located close to dense residential communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the opening of the parallel runway in 1997, the Airport has operated under a unique demand management framework that balances managing operational capacity at the airport, community concerns about aircraft noise and ensuring access for regional NSW cities and towns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Over time however, this Framework has fallen out of date, harming productivity, resilience and competition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is essential that this Framework enables the Airport to perform to its fullest potential, while ensuring that communities on the ground are not unduly impacted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is what these reforms will deliver.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Taken together, these reforms will encourage competition. By moving the responsibility for making the Slot Management Scheme from the Slot Manager to the Minister, the demand management system will be able to be updated so that it better aligns with modern international standards, while significantly increasing transparency about how slots are allocated. Airlines will be required to provide regular information on how they use slots, such as reasons for cancellations or major delays, and this monitoring information will be regularly published through independent audits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms will crack down on slot misuse by modernising the compliance regime to include new civil penalties for failing to use a slot, for no-slot and off-slot movements, for flight operations conducted not in accordance with slot requirements, for applying for slots with no reasonable prospects of using them and for failing to return or transfer unused slots, along with updated and strengthened enforcement tools for the Government to watch airlines more closely and take effective legal action where necessary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New transparency powers are being introduced to support the strengthened compliance regime. This will include a power for the Minister to compel airlines to produce information on slot usage and a requirement for the Slot Manager to regularly publish information about how slots are issued to airlines, how the airlines use them (such as information about cancellations and delays), and information about airlines that lose slots when they break the rules on slot misuse. This will help make sure that consumers have better information about airline performance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms will improve connectivity for regional communities by allowing regional NSW services to apply to use any slot during new peak period hours, not just the slots that are already set aside for priority access by regional NSW services. In addition, when allocating slots to airlines, the Slot Manager will be required to consider giving priority to regional NSW airlines asking for peak period slots among the other priorities for slot allocation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reforms will also boost resilience of the entire aviation network by introducing a 'recovery period'. This strictly controlled 'recovery period' will be implemented after severe weather events or other major disruptions (for example; security issues) to temporarily allow up to 85 movements per hour for a maximum of two hours on the same day following the disruption. This change will not increase noise impacts on communities, but it will mean more travellers can reach their destinations and spend the night at home rather than on a terminal floor or in a hotel room.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This package of reforms will benefit the flying public and include strong protections for communities affected by aircraft noise and those in regional areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those better outcomes for the travelling public are at the heart of the significant reforms being undertaken all across aviation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From better monitoring airline performance and pricing to improving outcomes for travellers with disabilities and creating the first Aviation Industry Ombuds Scheme—the Albanese Government is undertaking the most significant aviation reform agenda in a decade, delivering reforms that were left in the 'too hard' basket by those opposite.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Along with the opening of Western Sydney International Airport in 2026, this reform package will enable a more competitive, transparent and productive aviation network for years to come.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">treasury laws amendment (mergers and acquisitions reform) bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am proud to introduce the Treasury Laws Amendment (Mergers and Acquisitions Reform) Bill 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is another big step towards reforming Australia's merger rules and further boosting competition and productivity in our economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It outlines the biggest reforms to Australia's merger settings in almost 50 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will create a regime that more efficiently and effectively targets mergers that are anti-competitive, while allowing mergers that are pro-competitive to proceed faster.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We understand most mergers have genuine economic benefits and are an important feature of any healthy, open financial system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They can attract capital, re-tool businesses and improve the uptake of new technologies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They can allow businesses to achieve greater economies of scale and scope, to access new resources, technology and expertise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This can flow through to consumers via greater product choice and quality as well as lower prices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But some mergers can cause serious economic harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This can happen when businesses are not interested in improving profitability by lifting productivity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When they're solely focused on squeezing out competitors to capture a larger percentage of the market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This can strangle innovation, reduce productivity in our economy and punish consumers with reduced choice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury's Competition Taskforce has spent a lot of its time hearing about and thinking about these issues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Taskforce and its work has made plain that Australia's approach to mergers is no longer fit for purpose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for reform is clear.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia is one of only 3 OECD countries that doesn't require compulsory notification of mergers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last year, over 1,400 mergers were recorded, at a value of around $300 billion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Meanwhile, the ACCC looked at an average of 330 mergers a year over the past decade.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we don't know whether these are the right 330, or the mergers with the greatest potential to cause harm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When the ACCC does assess mergers, the current approach is not transparent for businesses or the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Clearance can be too slow and cause expensive delays for some businesses as they wait.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation will bring our merger system into the 21st century.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill enshrines our historic reforms into law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The legislation will improve our regime in five ways, by making the system faster, stronger, simpler, more targeted and more transparent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Approvals will be faster under the new system, with mergers ticked within 30 working days where the ACCC is satisfied they pose no threat to competition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The regime will be stronger thanks to a mandatory notification system and empowering the ACCC as the decision maker on all mergers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The system will be simpler, because we are reducing three streams to a streamlined path to approval that removes duplication and standardises notification requirements for mergers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will be more targeted, because mergers that create, strengthen or entrench substantial market power will be identified and stopped while those consistent with our national economic interest will be fast tracked.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, the merger regime will be more transparent, by ensuring the ACCC has better visibility of merger activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are creating a public register of all mergers and acquisitions notified to the ACCC to promote this transparency and accountability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reviews of ACCC decisions will be the responsibility of the Competition Tribunal made up of a Federal Court judge, an economist and a business leader.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the strengthened system, not every merger will be captured.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Only mergers above monetary thresholds will need to be notified to the ACCC and be approved before proceeding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government intends to set these monetary thresholds in regulations following the passage of this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will be three key thresholds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Firstly, any merger will be looked at if the Australian turnover of the combined businesses is above $200 million, and either the business or assets being acquired has Australian turnover above $50 million or global transaction value above $250 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Secondly, the ACCC will look at any merger involving a very large business with Australian turnover more than $500 million buying a smaller business or assets with Australian turnover above $10 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, to target serial acquisitions, all mergers by businesses with combined Australian turnover of more than $200 million where the cumulative Australian turnover from acquisitions in the same or similar goods or services over a 3-year period is at least $50 million will be captured, or $10 million if a very large business is involved.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Land acquisitions involving residential property development and certain commercial property acquisitions won't be included to avoid clogging up the system with simple land purchases unless they are captured by additional targeted notification requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These thresholds have been developed in close consultation with industry and the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The thresholds strike the right balance between creating a rigorous and robust regime without calling in every merger.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These thresholds will allow the ACCC to focus its efforts on the mergers that really matter.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We want to see the majority of mergers approved quickly, so the ACCC can focus on the minority that give rise to competition concerns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The thresholds will be reviewed 12 months after coming into effect, to ensure they are working as intended.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the legislation provides flexibility to allow the Treasurer to adjust and calibrate the thresholds to respond to evidence-based concerns from the ACCC about high-risk mergers, like in the supermarket sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This power, combined with the thresholds, will allow the ACCC to review all the mergers that they have been typically concerned about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Using this provision, the Government intends to make sure the ACCC is notified of every merger in the supermarket sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our intention to mandate this approach is based on evidence provided by the competition regulator.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reviewing every supermarket merger is all part of the decisive action our Government is taking to help Australians get fairer prices at the checkout.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We want to make sure supermarket mergers don't come at the cost of Australians, families and pensioners getting a fair price on their grocery bills.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our merger reforms will help ensure our supermarkets are as competitive as they can be so Australians get the best prices possible.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On the advice of the ACCC Chair, the Government also intends to use this power to get the competition regulator to review purchases of an interest above 20 per cent in an unlisted or private company, if one of the companies involved in the deal has turnover more than $200 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is all about lifting the level of scrutiny and transparency for private markets transactions, which have boomed in Australia in the past decade.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will give the ACCC the ability to analyse changes of control in private companies to ensure negative competition effects are avoided and to scrutinise these deals in more detail.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will also consider designation requirements for sectors such as fuel, liquor and oncology-radiology.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These merger laws will take effect from 1 January 2026 and apply voluntarily from 1 July 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill has been developed through detailed consultation and we'd like to take a moment here to thank everyone for their contributions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're especially grateful for the input from the Expert Advisory Panel, comprising Kerry Schott, David Gonski, John Asker, Sharon Henrick, John Fingleton, Danielle Wood and Rod Sims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm also thankful for all the discussions and consultation we have held with businesses, the competition regulator, and the broader community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That input and those views helped shaped this legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill builds on the Albanese Labor Government's substantial and broad competition reform agenda, which is all about creating a more dynamic, more productive and resilient economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This includes revitalising National Competition Policy with all state and territory governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Abolishing around 500 nuisance tariffs to cut compliance costs, reduce red tape, make it easier to do business, and boost productivity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping Australians get a fair price at the checkout with a new mandatory Food and Grocery Code, an ACCC inquiry and more funding for its investigations, reforming planning and zoning regulations and funding for CHOICE for price transparency reports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Promoting competition in our financial system, including in payments, financial market infrastructure and through the introduction of a financial services regulatory grid.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping bank customers find and follow better deals on their mortgages and higher interest rates on their savings accounts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This agenda will help expand choices, lift living standards and grow our economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will help ensure that our people, businesses and industries are beneficiaries of the opportunities before us in the defining decade ahead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The legislation I introduce today forms a key part of these competition reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And we are proud to introduce it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Reform) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7280" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Reform) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Today the Government introduces the <inline font-style="italic">Electoral Legislation Amendment (Electoral Reform) Bill 2024</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It proposes the largest reform to Australia's electoral laws in over 40 years, delivering on our commitment to strengthen and enhance the integrity of federal elections through improved transparency and accountability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill implements recommendations of the multipartisan Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM). JSCEM's recommendations and this Bill seek to remove the influence of big money in politics, so that our electoral system remains a system we can all trust.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Trust that election results are not unfairly skewed by 'big money'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Trust that elections are a contest of ideas, not bank balances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Trust that we know who is funding election campaigns with more information about campaign financing provided before voting day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes to gifts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To improve political donation transparency, the Bill reduces the disclosure threshold from the current $16,900 to $1,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It raises the expenditure threshold for a 'third party' to $20,000 over a year, supporting small, local-issue campaigners to continue their advocacy and maintain fair reporting obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also responds to community expectations by expanding the disclosure requirements for political donations that will be captured as gifts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Expedited disclosure</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's Bill improves public reporting timelines, requiring gifts that meet the $1,000 threshold be disclosed sooner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Instead of waiting up to 24 weeks after polling day, voters will be able to access information about who is funding elections and supporting candidates on and before voting day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Once an election is called, donation disclosures will be required within 7 days, and 24 hours in the week before and after polling day. Outside of elections, monthly donation disclosures will be required.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Gift caps</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Responding to JSCEM's recommendation, the Bill includes caps on political donations and caps on campaign spending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Gift caps operate effectively in other Australian jurisdictions and internationally, limiting the growth and influence of excessive donations that damage the integrity of electoral systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Disproportionately large donations undermine the integrity of Australia's electoral system. So, under this Bill, political donations from the same donor to the same recipient have an annual gift cap of $20,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The gift cap will be indexed annually and apply to all persons and entities engaging in the federal electoral system. Donation caps will not affect donations made for a non-electoral purpose, or donations related to State, Territory, or local government elections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Expenditure caps</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also implements JSCEM's recommendation to establish caps on electoral expenditure including campaign spending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed expenditure caps aim to level the playing field, providing greater access for individuals and entities to participate in political debate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The caps set a ceiling to protect the outcomes of Australian federal elections from being unfairly influenced by organisations or individuals with large amounts of money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Registered political parties will share an expenditure cap with state branches (including related state branches), their endorsed candidates, elected parliamentarians and nominated entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Accounting</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other measures in this Bill will improve reporting through annual returns. Persons and entities will be required to disclose their gifts and electoral expenditure and submit their returns within eight weeks from December 31.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Election returns will be repealed, and candidates will instead submit annual returns. Donors to candidates will report gifts for a federal purpose under the expedited disclosure rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also implements JSCEM's recommendation that those engaged in political campaigning must establish a federal election Commonwealth campaign account to allow for better disclosure and monitoring. These accounts will capture all electoral expenditure and gifts received for a federal purpose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Funding</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aligned with JSCEM's recommendation, the Bill introduces a new system of administrative funding, establishing administrative assistance funding for parliamentary parties and independent Parliamentarians. This provides registered political parties and independent members with the necessary financial support to meet the new transparency requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">JSCEM recommended an increase to public funding for parties and candidates and the Bill increases public election funding for eligible political parties and candidates. This seeks to offset some of the impact of gift caps, diminishing the reliance of political campaigns on private donors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other measures</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill introduces a number of other improvements and machinery measures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It amends the Electoral Actto expand the eligibility criteria for pre-poll and postal voting to support those with a disability to vote, and their carers if they are unable to attend a polling booth due to their caring obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill simplifies reporting obligations for members of Senate groups by requiring they only report as a candidate, removing their additional reporting requirement as a 'Senate group member'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will streamline and modernise the Australian Electoral Commission's existing powers to enforce the funding and disclosure requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will enhance the Commission's ability to investigate potential contraventions and broaden its power to prevent schemes that try to get around the funding and disclosure obligations in the Electoral Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also contains additional protections for voters and polling workers from harassment in the polling place. Inappropriate filming of polling places and polling officials without consent will be prohibited, as will live-streaming or publishing this filming.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Inappropriate filming that harasses Australians who want to vote, or that disrupts polling workers who are doing their job, will not be tolerated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the members of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, and the former Committee Chair, the Member for Jagajaga, Kate Thwaites, for their dedicated work and for delivering recommendations aimed at strengthening our democracy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the resumption of the debate be made an order of the day for a later hour.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Broadband Network Companies Amendment (Commitment to Public Ownership) Bill 2024, Oversight Legislation Amendment (Robodebt Royal Commission Response and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>107</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7259" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Broadband Network Companies Amendment (Commitment to Public Ownership) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7258" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Oversight Legislation Amendment (Robodebt Royal Commission Response and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>107</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>107</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">national broadband network companies amendment (commitment to public ownership) bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill reaffirms the Australian Government's commitment to ongoing public ownership of the National Broadband Network (NBN) and to remove existing conditions that create a pathway to privatisation of this vital national infrastructure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Broadband Network Companies Amendment (Commitment to Public Ownership) Bill 2024 (the Bill) will amend the <inline font-style="italic">National Broadband Network Companies Act 2011</inline> (NBN Act) to recognise in legislation the Government's policy that NBN Co Limited (NBN Co), the company that operates the National Broadband Network (NBN), remains in public ownership. The Bill also makes minor consequential amendments to the NBN Act and to the <inline font-style="italic">Telecommunications Act 1997</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Context of the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In December 2022, the Ministers for Finance and Communications, as joint Shareholder Ministers for NBN Co, issued an updated Statement of Expectations which confirms the Government policy to keep NBN Co in public hands for the foreseeable future, providing the company with the certainty needed to continue delivering improvements to the network while keeping prices affordable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill strengthens that commitment and makes it part of the legislative framework. This change will remove the existing legislative conditions which, if satisfied, enable privatisation of NBN Co.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN is critical national infrastructure</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN was established by the Labor Government because of the failure of the former Coalition Government to foresee and plan for the digital transformation of the economy. The sale of Telstra by the Coalition sold out communities, particularly in rural and regional Australia, both in terms of critical infrastructure investment and service quality for consumers. Crucially, the Telstra sale also deprived the Government of strategic levers to drive the investment necessary for Australians to fully access reliable high speed broadband and the productivity and digital inclusion benefits that delivers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is why it remains vital that the ongoing mission and focus of the NBN to deliver affordable, accessible high speed broadband to all Australians, be guided by the public interest, rather than the commercial interests of a privileged few.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will retain strong regulatory oversight of the pricing of NBN wholesale products by the ACCC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the Government will continue to act in the interests of regional communities to narrow the digital communications divide.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN is Australia's digital backbone, carrying the majority of the download traffic for Australian households and the NBN also carries a significant proportion of voice traffic for consumers. It is critical for this national infrastructure to be reliable, resilient and secure. In a time of rising risks of cyber-security we will ensure that the NBN stays in the ownership of the Australian people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN reaches over 12.4 million premises across Australia. Currently, more than 8.6 million homes and businesses in Australia are connected to the NBN.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has been making ongoing investment in the NBN to bring the benefits of high-speed broadband to more Australians. This Government support includes a commitment of $2.4 billion to replace the deteriorating copper network with fibre, which provides 90 per cent of Australians—around 10 million premises in the NBN fixed-line footprint—with access to faster and more reliable broadband.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This investment is already delivering benefits with increased reliability, fewer faults and access to higher speeds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the Government and NBN Co are delivering a $750 million investment to upgrade services in the NBN fixed wireless network, which has flow on benefits to NBN satellite services. This investment has already delivered uplifted speeds on existing plans and has introduced new fixed wireless high-speed tiers, with wholesale peak download speeds that range from 200 megabits per second (Mbps) and up to 400 Mbps.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The upgrade has also enabled unlimited data to be introduced for NBN satellite plans with download speeds of up to 100 Mbps.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN is vital nation-building infrastructure, essential to the wellbeing, safety and prosperity of Australians. An NBN that provides fast, reliable and affordable connectivity is critical to Australian households and businesses having access to key services to drive productivity growth,support digital inclusion and equitable access.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Keeping NBN Co in public hands is better for Australia</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Keeping NBN Co in public hands will ensure the company has the certainty necessary for its investment planning and operational decisions needed to maximise the economic and social benefits of the NBN. This is in contrast to a privately owned NBN Co that would be focussed on maximising the profits of its owners and not have strong incentives to make the investments needed to keep prices affordable and connect Australians in regional and remote Australia, including First Nations communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will be no conditions or stepping stones to privatisation</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NBN Act currently sets out conditions that once satisfied, would enable a future Government to initiate privatisation of the company. Once these conditions are met and a sale scheme completed, there would no longer be whole public ownership of NBN Co.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the Government has no intention to sell the NBN, there is no requirement for a legislative sale scheme. Other Government Business Enterprises, for example Australia Post, do not have provisions for sale in their enabling legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill removes that pathway to privatisation and commits to keeping the NBN wholly owned by the Australian people. A new section 43A will be introduced in the NBN Act to make clear Parliament's intention that NBN Co would remain wholly-owned by the Commonwealth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill would not change the operation of the NBN</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is proposed that the Bill will commence on the day after the Royal Assent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the amendments proposed by the Bill are largely mechanical in nature and do not change the operations of the NBN. These are proportionate and balanced amendments consistent with the Government's policy to keep the NBN in public hands.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed new statement of Parliamentary intent would, in recognition of the national significance and nationwide accessibility of the NBN, further reaffirm the importance of NBN Co remaining in public hands, and safeguard Australia's long term economic and security interests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through this Bill, the <inline font-style="italic">National Broadband Network Companies Act 2011</inline> will be amended to remove conditions enabling a future Government to privatise NBN Co. These changes reinforce in legislation the Government's commitment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill provides certainty to stakeholders, including broadband consumers, the wider telecommunications industry, broadband retailers, and NBN Co, that the Commonwealth will continue to retain ownership of NBN Co. This certainty supports the Government commitment for NBN Co to provide high-speed and reliable broadband connectivity for Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">oversight legislation amendment (robodebt royal commission response and other measures) bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Report of the Robodebt Royal Commission made it clear. Strong and effective oversight mechanisms are fundamental to safeguard the community in their dealings with government. Trust in government depends on this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Royal Commission concluded that the Robodebt scheme was a crude and cruel mechanism, neither fair nor legal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stronger scrutiny may have prevented the scheme's continuance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But the Royal Commission found that institutional checks and balances that should have raised serious questions about the Robodebt scheme were ineffective. And, in some cases, these checks and balances were intentionally impeded.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's response to the Royal Commission committed to improving public trust in government. It recognised the importance of impartial, independent and robust oversight to deliver on this commitment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill delivers on recommendations of the Robodebt Royal Commission. It will bolster the powers and capability of oversight agencies to ensure a failure like the Robodebt scheme can never happen again.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Because, central to the institutional checks and balances that could have made a difference to the outcomes of the Robodebt scheme, are independent and external oversight bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Oversight makes our institutions stronger. Oversight makes our democracy better. And most importantly, oversight keeps government agencies accountable to the people they serve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For these reasons, the Government is introducing amendments to the Ombudsman Act to ensure that Commonwealth agencies are subject to stronger and more rigorous oversight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Bill</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill recognises the importance of ensuring the Ombudsman has the necessary legislative powers to undertake full, independent and transparent investigations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Robodebt Royal Commission made two recommendations for legislative change to the Ombudsman Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First, that a statutory duty be imposed on departmental secretaries and agency heads to ensure their department or agency uses their best endeavours to assist the Ombudsman in an investigation. The Royal Commission also recommended a corresponding duty be imposed on the part of Commonwealth public servants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill implements this recommendation in full. But it goes further than this. The Bill extends the statutory duty to assist the Ombudsman to all of the Ombudsman's functions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means that agencies will be required to assist regardless of whether the Ombudsman is making preliminary inquiries, conducting an investigation, or following up on implementation of their recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In doing so, the Bill reinforces the responsibility of heads of agencies to ensure their agency acts in good faith and proactively assists the Ombudsman in the performance of all of their functions. By imposing this duty on the staff of agencies, the Bill also ensures the responsibility to assist the Ombudsman is clearly individually borne by all those in the public service.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second recommendation for legislative change was that the Ombudsman be conferred with a power requiring Commonwealth agencies to provide all reasonable facilities and assistance to the Ombudsman when the Ombudsman exercises their power to access an agency's records.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendments in the Bill deliver on the full intent of this recommendation. The Bill ensures that the Ombudsman has strong powers to obtain full, free and direct access to agency records as part of an investigation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To further enhance the Ombudsman's ability to access an agency's records, the Bill also specifically empowers the Ombudsman to obtain access to records remotely. These amendments ensure that the Ombudsman has a modern suite of effective information-gathering powers to keep agencies accountable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While most agencies engage in good faith with the Ombudsman, the findings of the Robodebt Royal Commission made it clear that the Ombudsman should not have to be reliant on this assumption.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments made by the Bill will ensure that the Ombudsman does not need to depend on government agencies to undertake searches and provide documents and information in the course of an investigation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new and enhanced duties and powers in the Bill will be extended to apply in respect to all statutory offices of the Ombudsman under the Act, such as the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman, Postal Industry Ombudsman and Overseas Students Ombudsman. This means that, whether they are dealing with Commonwealth agencies or other sectors such as private health, postal or education providers, the public can have confidence that the Ombudsman has effective oversight powers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also recognises the importance of the Inspector-General of Taxation and Taxation Ombudsman in providing assurance to the community that taxation laws are being administered with integrity. The Bill implements the commitment in the Government Response to the Robodebt Report to introduce equivalent amendments for the Inspector-General as for the Ombudsman.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Strong institutions are fundamental to the key mandate of government—meeting the needs of the community that it exists to serve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The public must be confident that government agencies are acting with integrity and accountability. And that they act in a manner that is lawful, fair and transparent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has committed to improve this public trust.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill bolsters the powers and capability of oversight bodies to ensure that government agencies are accountable.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper </inline>as separate orders of the day.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 115(3), further consideration of these bills is now adjourned to the days on which the committees are required to present their reports on the bills.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7276" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>McCARTHY (—) (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The decision of the High Court yesterday is not the one the Government wanted—but it is one we were prepared for.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why the Government is in a position to take immediate steps to protect community safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This morning I attended Government House, where Her Excellency the Governor-General signed new regulations that will allow us to continue to use curfews and electronic monitoring devices—ankle bracelets—as visa conditions on the NZYQ cohort.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These visa conditions are designed to protect the community—not as a punitive measure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new regulations were ready to go because the Government was meticulously prepared for every possible outcome of the YBFZ case.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those regulations are now in effect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation will support those regulations—but it is not necessary to give them effect.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part of the reason these changes are necessary is because the High Court has objected to certain conditions being presumed unless the Minister finds otherwise rather than requiring a positive decision from the Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This particular provision was not in the original Bill introduced to this Parliament but became part of amendments agreed to between the Government and Opposition before the legislation was finalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New community protection test</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes establish a revised community protection test in the Migration Regulations, requiring (among other things) that the Minister is satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the holder of a Bridging Visa (Removal Pending)—known as a BVR—poses a substantial risk of seriously harming any part of the Australian community by committing a serious offence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the revised test, the Minister must also be satisfied on the balance of probabilities that the imposition of each condition (in addition to the other conditions imposed on the BVR) is:</para></quote>
<list>reasonably necessary; and</list>
<list>reasonably appropriate and adapted;</list>
<list>for the purpose of protecting any part of the Australian community from serious harm by addressing that substantial risk.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments of the Migration Regulations also necessitate certain amendments of the Migration Act 1958.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 76E at the moment is not consistent with the new regulations. The way the regulations have been drafted it will be some weeks before section 76E will be required to be used.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Therefore while it is important for this legislation to go through within a reasonable time it does not have to be rushed through this week.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 76E provides BVR holders an opportunity to make representations to the Minister if they are granted a BVR with electronic monitoring, curfew or certain financial reporting conditions imposed, and for the Minister to consider whether to grant a new BVR without one or more of those conditions (subject to the community protection test).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Enhanced removals powers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation will also strengthen and streamline the Government's power to remove to third countries people who have had their visas cancelled.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When someone's visa is cancelled, for any reason, the first preference of the Government is for them to leave the country, voluntarily or involuntarily.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One of the most basic principles of our migration system is if you are in Australia you should either be a citizen or have a visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will of course exercise our removal powers in accordance with our international non-refoulement obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation will:</para></quote>
<list>establish immunity provisions which ensure that the Commonwealth and its officers (including the Minister) are not liable under Australian law in respect of civil claims arising out of the performance of duties to remove a person, or the circumstances of a person being removed to another place from Australia—where the Commonwealth and its officers have acted in good faith—under sections 198 and 198AD of the Migration Act (as opposed to creating a bar on bringing proceedings). This provision is prospective and does not extinguish claims for conduct that has already occurred;</list>
<list>clarify that despite any Commonwealth, State or Territory law, collection, use, and disclosure of information about criminal history —including spent conviction information, charges, findings and results of a criminal proceeding— by the Minister or an officer of the Department, for the purpose of performing a function or exercising a power, including collection, use and disclosure by a person or body who has received the information from the Minister or Department for the purpose of providing advice or recommendations, is permitted and is lawful, regardless of whether the collection, use or disclosure of information occurred before or after commencement;</list>
<list>to provide that disclosure of information—including personal information and criminal history information—to foreign countries is permitted and broadly covers collection, use and disclosure for any purposes directly or indirectly connected with the removal of a person from Australia including in relation to a third country reception arrangement. This overrides existing Commonwealth, State and Territory restrictions on disclosing spent conviction information (with certain exceptions) and includes disclosure of information obtained before commencement;</list>
<list>to make minor amendments to harmonise references in the Migration Act relating to the merits review of migration and protection decisions within the jurisdiction of the new Administrative Review Tribunal.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Enabling amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To enable the effective operation of the proposed amendments in the Bill the Bill also includes:   </para></quote>
<list>amendments to insert a definition of "removal pathway non-citizen", which includes:</list>
<list>unlawful non-citizens required to be removed under section 198;</list>
<list>Subclass 070 (Bridging (Removal Pending)) visa holders;</list>
<list>Subclass 050 (Bridging (General)) visa holders who were granted on the basis of acceptable arrangements being made to depart Australia; and</list>
<list>non-citizens who hold a visa prescribed by the regulations and which was granted on the basis acceptable arrangements have been made for them to depart Australia;   </list>
<list>amendments to sections 197C and 197D of the Migration Act to extend the application of provisions relating to the revisiting of protection findings to include visa holders covered by the definition of "removal pathway non-citizen".</list>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the house.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 115(3), further consideration of this bill is now adjourned to 26 November 2024.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill and the Migration Amendment (Removal and Other Measures) Bill 2024 may be taken together for their remaining stages.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>112</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>112</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>112</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 21 February 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The role of Australia's intelligence, diplomatic and law enforcement agencies, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the ability of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation and the Australian Federal Police to investigate former politicians who allegedly act against Australia's interests;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the ability of these agencies to examine Australian university staff in relation to allegedly false claims, particularly in regard to the origins of COVID-19, which endanger national security and health infrastructure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the relationship between Australia's agencies and those of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America in dealing with false leads, and their ability to ensure that they are not sharing incorrect information, such as that passed by a former High Commissioner to the United Kingdom to United States intelligence about Donald Trump; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to speak to this very important motion—because I think it's time we applied greater scrutiny to our intelligence agencies. In particular, I'm extremely concerned by the lack of questioning and scrutiny of the statement made earlier this year by the head of ASIO, Mike Burgess, who referred to a politician who had sold Australia out. Apparently he sold out his party and his country. That to me seems a pretty straightforward statement that there was at some stage in this place or the other place a politician that did not act in Australia's best interests and that—I can only assume by the expression 'sold out'—received some sort of benefit to do the so-called sell-out.</para>
<para>I want to know why this former politician hasn't been prosecuted, because, as I pointed out in estimates, there is a section in the Criminal Code 1995, 142.2, that says that, if any public servant receives a benefit for themselves, they can be prosecuted. I think it's very important that we send a very strong signal to people who work for the government that they must serve in the best interests of the people.</para>
<para>For the life of me, I cannot understand—and there's more to this story—why ASIO did not refer this person to the AFP. They claim that there weren't any laws in place at the time to prosecute this person. I would disagree because, as I just quoted, section 142.2 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 was in place when this person committed the crime. Furthermore, both the AFP and ASIO have been contacted by barristers who advised ASIO and the AFP of the existence of this particular section of the Criminal Code.</para>
<para>It's very important that our law enforcement agencies actually enforce the law, and it's very important that they enforce the law in regard to loyalty to this great nation, not just because it's the right thing to do—it's their job—but because people are losing trust in the establishment and in the institutions.</para>
<para>They are constantly seeing people in positions of high places not being held to account. We see this all the time, where the bureaucracy and politicians will circle the wagons to defend their own rather than take a stand and defend the little guy. We are seeing our precious way of life—this country was built by the battler, and it effectively belongs to the battler—this great egalitarian way of life, slowly be eroded because we're now getting two classes of people in this country. There are those who work for the government and are associated with the government and those who are connected to big business, big media, big super funds and big government, and then there are those who don't fall within that net—that is, small-business people, our farmers, our workers; the little guy. They're constantly being trodden on by the big end of town. They're held to account. Can I say, it's an absolute disgrace. See someone like Richard Boyle, the ATO whistleblower that tried to blow the whistle on the bullying tactics of the ATO. He could face jail time for acting with good intent, in good faith, to expose the overreach of the Australian Tax Office. Mr Boyle may very well find himself in jail very soon for trying to do the right thing.</para>
<para>Yet, on the other hand, out there, we've got some politician that could still be on a defined benefit scheme that may or may not have been a minister and that may or may not have been a lobbyist out there. To the best of my knowledge, unless the AFP have started to do something in the last week or two, they aren't actually attempting to prosecute this person. I presume there's enough evidence there, or I doubt that Mr Burgess would have raised it in his annual assessment threat. I think that it's time that we really got to the nitty-gritty of what's going on with ASIO and our intelligence agencies because I think there's an obligation here to make sure that this particular former politician is held to account for his or her actions.</para>
<para>It doesn't end there. We've also got serious concerns—and I've raised this many times with ASIO and, to a lesser extent, the AFP in estimates—about gain-of-function research in this country and the actions taken by people in our own academia with regard to covering up the origins of COVID. ASIO claim that it is not their responsibility. I've been to the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, and they claim it's not their responsibility. The AFP claim that it's not their responsibility. Well, I say to you: whose responsibility is it? There's enough evidence out there, as we heard yesterday on Sky on <inline font-style="italic">Outsiders</inline> with Professor Angus Dalgleish, a professor in cancer, who said this, that there were six inserts in the COVID virus that were actually man-made. As he said, maybe one you could live with but not six in a row. To have 18 nucleotides all lined up amongst 29,000 nucleotides at the right spot where it feeds through, the right spot for the furin cleavage site to match up with the ACE receptor—the chances of that happening through Mother Nature are the equivalent of a 'big bang' in biological terms.</para>
<para>We know that we have people here in Australia who were working for the Chinese Centre for Disease Control and Prevention, and these same people wrote a paper in the <inline font-style="italic">Lancet</inline> that completely debunked the idea that COVID was man-made or could have been man-made. Yet we now know that there is substantial evidence out there that proves that this idea was covered up and that there was a deliberate attempt to cover this up. I think it is incumbent upon our intelligence agencies, particularly given that some of these academics received millions of dollars in taxpayer funding through the National Health and Medical Research Council, to find out what exactly went on then and what's going on in the future with regard to the risks involved with gain-of-function research.</para>
<para>I know that it can happen anywhere in the world, but this research is conducted at something like 18 or 19 universities in Australia. There seems to be very little oversight of what's going on with this research.</para>
<para>It's research that, I might say, is extremely fascinating, but if it goes wrong it can have very serious consequences. After lodging this motion last week I was alerted to another incident that happened not far from here at the Double Drummer cafe. This cafe is next to a government intelligence building and was owned by the wife of a Chinese politician, and for some particular reason this was never really picked up at all. Yet again you have to ask yourself why on earth this was allowed to happen and why the intelligence agencies didn't get on to this sooner than they did.</para>
<para>Of course, we've had former ambassadors involved in giving information to US intelligence agencies about now-debunked claims of President-elect Donald Trump colluding with the Russians. Yet again we need to be asking ourselves what's going on when maybe fake information is being passed on and what we're doing to make sure that, even if it was done with the best of intentions, our intelligence agencies and our diplomats aren't involved in misinformation and disinformation. Indeed, today we've just had the Labor Party withdraw their own misinformation and disinformation bill. Maybe it's incumbent upon governments to look at their own bureaucrats and diplomats to make sure that they aren't engaging in misinformation and disinformation. Misinformation and disinformation, I may suggest, have had very, very important ramifications over the last four or five years. We've seen a lot of information be put out that, at the time, if you stuck your head up, you would get your head shot off. The so-called Russian collusion was considered the truth, and—not that this involves Australia—50 ex-CIA agents claimed that Donald Trump was colluding with the Russians. As to what brought that on, who knows? But we had our own Australian government employees tied up with this sort of information.</para>
<para>It's a time to reflect because the winds are changing. We've seen in the United States that people are sick of the deep state; they're sick of the swamp. They want to drain the swamp. And workers in intelligence agencies are government employees just like everyone else. We have estimates, and it's time that we took a closer look at the behaviour and actions of our intelligence agencies, because it's not right that they're allowed to put up the wall of silence because it's all secret squirrel stuff. A lot of this stuff isn't secret squirrel stuff. It's out there. It's known to the public, but the details are very scant.</para>
<para>If the intelligence agencies and the AFP can't make the effort to prosecute a former politician that, in ASIO's own words, sold Australia out, then who will they prosecute? They're going to go after Julian Assange, Richard Boyle, David McBride—people who acted in good faith to try and expose whatever they thought was important and in the national interest. These people could potentially be put behind bars—in the case of Richard Boyle, I don't think he's there yet, and hopefully he doesn't go behind bars. But there seem to be two sets of standards here—one for politicians. Like I said, we deserve to know who this former politician is, and I think this former politician, in particular, needs to be held to account for his or her actions. If we're not going to hold the elected representatives to account and if we're not going to hold bureaucrats who didn't act in the best interests of Australia to account, then it's going to undermine trust in our democratic systems, democratic processes and our public institutions.</para>
<para>It's not fair and it's hypocritical.</para>
<para>There are many good bureaucrats out there. I know I give the bureaucracy a bit of a hard time at times, and I call them out quite often. But, to be fair, we are never going to improve the bureaucracy if there is a culture of fear amongst the bureaucrats with integrity and with a sense of justice that, if they do speak out, they're going to lose their job or, even worse, be jailed and punished. I would recommend to the Senate—we are a house of review—to take this motion very seriously. If the Senate won't hold our intelligence agencies to account, who will they hold to account?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Senator Rennick's referral to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:30]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Hughes)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>6</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>114</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>114</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Community Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 12 February 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The failure of Australia to adopt evidence-based safeguards on the use of puberty blockers for gender dysphoric adolescents, aligning with international best practices, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the dangers posed by puberty blockers, as evidenced by poor-quality and inconclusive research on their safety and efficacy;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the inadequacy of current Australian safeguards compared to more precautionary approaches adopted in New Zealand, the United Kingdom and other nations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the over-reliance on experimental treatments instead of prioritising holistic, psychological and social interventions for young people experiencing gender dysphoria;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the lack of regulation and oversight of off-label prescriptions of puberty blockers in Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the absence of long-term data on the physical, mental health and fertility impacts of these treatments;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the Government's role in ensuring proper medical, ethical and legal standards are applied to protect vulnerable adolescents;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the stifling of dissenting medical and scientific views in public and policy debates on gender-affirming treatments; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>This is a very important issue that's facing many Australians. And I ask: why? Here we go again. This is not my first attempt to bring this issue into the light, and it won't be my last. In fact, it's the fifth attempt for common sense. I'm going to go back at least a year and a half ago—it would have to be at least that—when we had parents and mothers come to this parliament and walk the halls. They spoke to everyone and said, 'We want an inquiry into puberty blockers, gender dysphoria and the hormone treatment.' They said they got a great response. But guess what? It's the fifth time now before this parliament because I haven't been able to get common sense out of the senators in this place to realise how important it is to have this inquiry.</para>
<para>It's led by the Albanese-Greens government. The Albanese government has become even more isolated in its denial of the harms caused by puberty blockers administered to children presenting with gender identity issues. Labor has become more isolated in their denial of the lack of clinical evidence supporting the safe use of these treatments. They have been isolated by our closest friends: the United Kingdom, the United States and, just last week, New Zealand. Other countries have seen the light on puberty blockers through studies conducted and the lack of evidence supporting their use.</para>
<para>Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Finland, Italy and even Turkiye—these countries have woken up. Here in Australia, the government is still asleep at the wheel. Here in Australia, the government has repeatedly denied an inquiry into the rapid increase in children attending gender clinics and how they are being treated. They claim their denial of an inquiry is to protect trans people and children with gender issues from harm. Can you believe that? From harm! But it's their denial of the truth which is causing more harm.</para>
<para>The truth was laid bare by the Cass review in the United Kingdom, the final report of which was published in April. This review was commissioned by the UK's National Health Service in 2020 in response to issues at the Tavistock gender clinic in London, especially a rapid, massive increase in the number of children being treated there. In 2011, 250 children sought treatment at the clinic. In 2021, 10 years later, the figure had risen to more than 5,000. The review's findings included the following:</para>
<list>There is no simple explanation for the increase in the numbers of predominantly young people and young adults who have a trans or gender diverse identity, but there is broad agreement that it is a result of a complex interplay between biological, psychological and social factors …</list>
<list>There are conflicting views about the clinical approach, with expectations of care at times being far from usual clinical practice. This has made some clinicians fearful of working with gender-questioning young people, despite their presentation being similar to many children and young people presenting to other NHS services.</list>
<list>An appraisal of international guidelines for care and treatment of children and young people with gender incongruence found that that no single guideline could be applied in its entirety …</list>
<list>While a considerable amount of research has been published in this field, systematic evidence reviews demonstrated the poor quality of the published studies, meaning there is not a reliable evidence base upon which to make clinical decisions, or for children and their families to make informed choices.</list>
<list>The strengths and weaknesses of the evidence base on the care of children and young people are often misrepresented and overstated, both in scientific publications and social debate.</list>
<para>It said, 'The rationale for early puberty suppression remains unclear, with weak evidence regarding the impact on gender dysphoria, mental or psychosocial health. The effect on cognitive and psychosexual development' of puberty suppression 'remains unknown'. It then said:</para>
<list>The use of masculinising / feminising hormones in those under the age of 18 also presents many unknowns, despite their longstanding use in the adult transgender population …</list>
<list>Clinicians are unable to determine with any certainty which children and young people will go on to have an enduring trans identity.</list>
<list>For the majority of young people, a medical pathway may not be the best way to manage their gender-related distress. For those young people for whom a medical pathway is clinically indicated, it is not enough to provide this without also addressing wider mental health and/or psychosocially challenging problems.</list>
<para>There are similarly rapid rises in the number of children being treated for gender dysphoria in other countries, including Australia. From 2014 to 2021, there was a tenfold increase in Australian children being treated at public gender clinics. In the same period, there was a hundredfold increase in Australian children being treated with puberty blockers—more than 2,000 children. There are no figures available for private gender clinics, so the true number is obviously much higher.</para>
<para>If it were almost any other condition requiring a form of medical treatment, there would be outrage. There would be demands for inquiries, commissions, reviews, legislation and funding for public awareness campaigns—but not for this issue. It's because Labor, the Greens, some Liberals and also Senator David Pocock and other crossbench independent senators subscribe to gender ideology.</para>
<para>They're part of an ideology that says all children with complex mental health and identity issues can solve their problems by changing their gender. They're as responsible as any extreme trans activist for the appalling way these children are being used to further an ideology the majority of Australians despise. Sound familiar? Labor and the Greens hold many positions directly opposed by the majority of Australians—record immigration, climate change nonsense, the Voice to Parliament. The list goes on and on. They don't permit debate or inquiry because they know their position is indefensible and they know their neglect is criminal and immoral. They just chant, 'Trans rights are human rights', as if this is all the response that is needed.</para>
<para>Children's rights are human rights too. They have a right to the best comprehensive holistic treatment for gender identity issues we can provide. That right is being denied to them. Anyone who speaks for the more comprehensive, holistic approach these children deserve—just ask Dr Jillian Spencer, a highly-qualified child psychologist now locked in a legal battle with the Queensland Children's Hospital. This hospital tried to force Dr Spencer to endorse its gender affirmation approach despite her serious misgivings about it. It tried to force her to comply with the gender ideology of Labor and the Greens and suspended her for expressing concerns about this politicised approach.</para>
<para>Labor and the Greens will do everything they can to protect this ideology from any scrutiny. But I warn them: their time is coming. Western society is pushing back. If developments in the United Kingdom haven't sounded the alarm, perhaps developments across the Tasman will. New Zealand's Ministry of Health has announced it will issue guidance to ensure children with gender issues receive the treatment they deserve instead of being automatically put on the sex change production line. Just like the Cass review, the ministry has concluded there is insufficient evidence supporting the use of puberty blockers and insufficient evidence about their long-term harms.</para>
<para>The evidence is piling up. Gender ideology ignores clinical evidence. Labor and the Greens are ignoring clinical evidence. Gender ideology is destroying the lives of these kids and their families. Labor, the Greens, some of the crossbench and some of the Liberals are destroying the lives of these kids and their families. That's why they'll likely vote against this inquiry. They don't want the truth of this ideology exposed to the Australian people.</para>
<para>I'm calling for, in my motion:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… Australia to adopt evidence-based safeguards on the use of puberty blockers for gender dysphoric adolescents, aligning with international best practices, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the dangers posed by puberty blockers, as evidenced by poor-quality and inconclusive research on their safety and efficacy—</para></quote>
<para>What is wrong with that? Going on—</para>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the inadequacy of current Australian safeguards compared to more precautionary approaches adopted in New Zealand, the United Kingdom and other nations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the over-reliance on experimental treatments instead of prioritising holistic, psychological and social interventions for young people experiencing gender dysphoria …</para></quote>
<para>And it goes on.</para>
<para>What I'm asking for is basic common sense—to have an investigation into it, and to have parents and other organisations come forward and give their evidence to a Senate inquiry. This is not a piece of legislation; this is only an inquiry. This is what the people want. If you care about the children out there, why won't you have an inquiry? Why are you a bunch of gutless wonders who will not stand up for these children? I really don't get it. It's got nothing to do with being transgender. Let adults, as adults, make the decisions; let them go and get their puberty blockers. All this damage has been done. I've got to tell the people out there: puberty blockers are irreversible, as is the harm they're doing to these people. Their bone structure, everything—it just has an impact on their whole health.</para>
<para>These kids—I've heard from their parents—have their lives destroyed because of this, and you don't care. You don't care about these people at all. It blows my mind that you're supposed to be here—it's no skin off your nose to have the inquiry. You've got nothing to lose but everything to gain by showing that you're upfront and honest with the Australian people by giving them the opportunity to offer their evidence in this inquiry.</para>
<para>You can't tell me that every Labor senator over there agrees to not have an inquiry. What is wrong with you gutless wonders over there? You were voted in to represent the people of this nation—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, I ask you to temper your language.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I heard you. The fact is that the people of this nation want you to represent them, and you vote in a bloc so that you will not allow this inquiry to happen. I don't believe you. I really don't believe you—not on an important issue like this.</para>
<para>I've got to say I don't agree with the Liberals' stance on this. Birmingham, Bragg, Hume, Kovacic, Smith—they're the same. They support all this rubbish, but at least they didn't vote against my first motion for an inquiry with this. What surprises me so much is that Senator Kovacic came and spoke to me about it, because she was told that I've got another agenda with all this. She came to speak to me personally and said, 'What is this all about?' I explained it to her. She said, 'I don't have a problem with that; I don't have a problem with what you want to have this inquiry for.' Isn't it funny? They must have got to her, because she's never voted for it since. Isn't it a shame when you find out the reasons why? You want to represent the people out there and then you vote against it. That's what happens in this place all the time. That's why most of the time I don't have respect for most of the people in this parliament at all—because you don't stand up for what you believe in.</para>
<para>At least I sleep at night, and I know I'm out there fighting for the rights of the Australian people, and I will keep fighting for the rights of these children and to have an inquiry. Let the parents have their say. Bring the evidence forward. Other countries are waking up with regard to this. It is about the children. If you destroy their bodies, they will never recover again. It's no wonder we've got so much mental ill health going on in this country, and you're responsible for it. You are responsible, and it's a shame on this parliament that you keep allowing this to happen time and time again.</para>
<para>I don't expect you to have a change of heart and to support this motion of mine to get it before an inquiry. I'd be absolutely gobsmacked. I'll actually be so grateful if some commonsense prevails out there so that you allow this inquiry. I'll make a special call: Senator David Pocock, get some guts about you, mate, and vote for this one. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion standing in the name of Senator Hanson be agreed to. A division is required. It being past 6.30 pm, the division will be deferred to a later date.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>117</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>117</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7231" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>117</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the statement of reasons accompanying the requests circulated for this bill will be incorporated into the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> immediately after the requests to which they relate. There being no objection, it is so ordered.</para>
<para>The committee is considering the Universities Accord (Student Support and Other Measures) Bill 2024 and the amendments on sheet 2949 moved by Senator Faruqi. The question is that the amendments be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am going to provide a government response to Senator Faruqi on 2949. As you would be aware, we are already taking action to provide significant relief to Australian students and workers with student debt. In this bill, we're taking action to cut the cost of degrees through our changes to indexation, and we've also announced that we'll cut 20 per cent of all student debts and that we'll raise the minimum repayment threshold so repayments are lower and kick in when you earn more. This means, all up, the Albanese Labor government will cut close to $20 billion in student loan debt for more than three million Australians.</para>
<para>I note abolishing indexation was considered by the Senate Standing Committee on Education and Employment in 2023. The committee recommended that the Senate not pass that bill. Indexation plays an important role in ensuring that loans maintain their real value over time and reinforces the long-term financial sustainability of the HELP and other loan systems. But that doesn't mean that indexation settings can't be better and fairer. The changes in this bill acknowledge that. They ensure that debts won't grow faster than average wages. If indexation were to be waived altogether, the costs would be in the billions. It would break the system that has seen so many Australians get a university degree. We need more people to go into tertiary education, not fewer, and that's why we will not support this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens are moving this amendment because the students are being burdened by more and more student debt when, really, education should be free.</para>
<para>The committee report that Senator Chisholm refers to obviously came from a Labor dominated committee. But every single witness we heard from gave evidence that indexation should go. It is unfair. In Labor's term of government indexation has gone up by 16 per cent. Just shaving off a few per cent still leaves an 11 per cent increase in student debts over just 2½ years of Labor government.</para>
<para>Student debt really is spiralling. People are being crushed under indexation and student debt, so, really, it should be scrapped altogether. We have a bill sitting in parliament to scrap indexation and to raise the minimum income threshold to the median wage. Senator Chisholm said that Labor are going to wipe 20 per cent of student debt and erase the minimum income threshold, but they don't have the courage to legislate it right now. So we are going to put you on notice tonight. We're going to move amendments and see if Labor support their own policy and pledge. Labor are in government now, and they should legislate for those changes now so there is certainty for those who are being crushed under student debt. I commend the amendments to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Senator Faruqi's amendments on sheet 2949 be agreed to. As a division is required, it will be deferred until a later date because we are past 6.30 pm.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move opposition amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3046 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 7), omit the table item.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, page 29 (line 1) to page 31 (line 17), to be opposed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting these amendments. Students have been calling for changes to the student services and amenities fees, and it was a recommendation of the Universities Accord. Over a third of universities already meet this requirement. This includes those in Western Australia that are required to provide 50 per cent of SSAF to lead student organisations under WA state legislation. To suggest that unis on the west coast are already above that—we're seeking to legislate—but that other universities cannot achieve 40 per cent is wrong. Transitional arrangements have been included to support those providers that need the time to meet the new requirements. They will be able to write to the secretary of the Department of Education. Table A universities will have up to three years to transition and non-table A providers will have up to five years.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I confirm that Senator Henderson moved amendments on sheets 3046 and 3047?</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Just sheet 3046. I will confirm that. Senator Henderson, is that (2) on sheet 3046 or (1)?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've moved amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3046.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens will not be supporting this amendment. The student services and amenities fees should be exactly that, and the majority of this revenue should be allocated to student led organisations who are best placed to direct and control their funding as they see fit. Universities must be run by and for their staff and students. Democratically elected student organisations are crucial to this and must be appropriately resourced to respond to student's needs. Any attempts to further erode the power of staff and students must be resisted, and that's why the Greens will not support this amendment. Staff and students should be the ones running universities not a bunch of hand-picked executives that are walking away with hefty pay packets while corporatising universities.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that schedule 2 stand as printed. A division having been called, as it is past 6.30 pm, we will defer that to a later date. We can't do the second one on that sheet because it's reliant upon the first one, so we'll put it to one side while we work through that.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Australian Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3140 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (after table item 6), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 28 (after line 10), after Schedule 1, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1A — Reduction of AASL, HELP, SSL, FS and VETSL debts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Australian Apprenticeship Support Loans Act 2014</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 At the end of Part 3.1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">38A Rules must discharge an amount of accumulated AASL debts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The rules must provide that an accumulated AASL debt that a person incurs on 1 June 2025 is discharged by 20%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Rules made for the purposes of subsection (1) have effect despite any other provision of this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 At the end of Subdivision 140-C</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">140-45 Reduction of accumulated HELP debts on 2 June 2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) If a person incurs an *accumulated HELP debt on 1 June 2025 for that financial year, then, on 2 June 2025, the person's accumulated HELP debt for that financial year is taken to have been discharged by an amount that is worked out in accordance with the following formula:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amount of the person's accumulated HELP debt on 1 June 2025 x 0.2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Subsection (1) has effect despite any other provision of this Act, other than section 140-30 (which deals with the rounding of amounts).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act </inline> <inline font-style="italic">1991</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 At the end of Part 2AA.3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1061ZVEG Minister must discharge an amount of accumulated SSL debts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must, by legislative instrument, provide that an accumulated SSL debt that a person incurs on 1 June 2025 is discharged by 20%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) An instrument made for the purposes of subsection (1) has effect despite any other provision of this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 At the end of Part 2B.3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1061ZZFPA Minister must discharge an amount of accumulated FS debts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must, by legislative instrument, provide that an accumulated FS debt that a person incurs on 1 June 2025 is discharged by 20%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) An instrument made for the purposes of subsection (1) has effect despite any other provision of this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">VET Student Loans Act 2016</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 At the end of Division 3 of Part 3A</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">23CG Rules must discharge an amount of accumulated VETSL debts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The rules must provide that an accumulated VETSL debt that a person incurs on 1 June 2025 is discharged by 20%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Rules made for the purposes of subsection (1) have effect despite any other provision of this Act.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments are about legislating what Labor has pledged recently. That is, to wipe 20 per cent of all student debt. After years of pressure from the Greens, Labor is finally starting to adopt Greens policies by pledging to wipe some student debt but obviously too slowly and too cynically. I say slowly because it's only 20 per cent and I say cynically because they won't do it right now.</para>
<para>Labor has brought in a bill for fee-free TAFE places, and legislating that now is a good thing. But it only starts in 2027. This pledge, to reduce 20 per cent of the student debt when student debt is spiralling, should be legislated right now. There is absolutely no justification for Labor to wait until after the election to legislate this pledge. What they're doing is cruel. It is cruel to dangle student debt relief as an enticement to win votes. People can see right through it. People are sick and tired of being used as pawns in this political game. In the absence of the government bringing in legislation to do this, we are moving this amendment right now to the Universities Accord Bill because Labor doesn't want to give assurance to students and graduates, whose debts have shackled them. It takes a lifetime to pay off this debt. This is a chance for Labor to show that they actually care about people struggling under the weight of student debt.</para>
<para>I hope that Labor can support their own policy today, and I commend the amendment to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will be opposing this amendment. This proposal, announced by the government, shows the Albanese government has given up on the fight against inflation. It reeks of elitism and unfairness. Having failed to address the cost of living at its source, Labor has now decided to start running the ruler over who will vote for them and who won't without addressing the higher inflation. What this risks is higher interest rates for longer and higher inflation.</para>
<para>This proposal by Labor is not how to manage the economy. The best way to bring down inflation is to tackle the problem at its source. This requires getting the economy back on track and back to basics, reining in wasteful government spending and boosting productivity to relieve price pressures. Instead, what Labor is proposing to do is to spend more, raise taxes and add cost to the supply side of the economy that is only going to make inflation worse. This has been broadly discredited by leading independent economists. The Prime Minister has had 2½ years to get inflation under control. He's now robbing future generations to try and cover up what Australians are already realising: Labor is not up to the job of fixing the economy.</para>
<para>What's also clear here is that this policy excludes 24 million Australians who do not have a HELP debt and who are struggling with Labor's cost-of-living crisis. It just passes this debt onto all Australians—$16 billion, or $1,600 per household—and, of course, as I mentioned before, it reeks of unfairness and elitism. More than 55,000 people have a HELP debt of between $100,000 and $200,000, meaning that, under this policy, Labor would deliver them an average pay cheque of around $25,000. So some people get $25,000 and some people get a piddling amount, but most Australians get nothing at all. How is this fair when so many young Australians can barely pay the rent or put food on the table? That is why the coalition will not support this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will also not be supporting this amendment. This is a government that has done more for student debt than the Greens have ever done and ever will. We will continue to reform the HECS system to take the pressure off Australians with a student debt, and we will do it in a staged and methodical way.</para>
<para>First, we are fixing indexation, which is what this bill does. The bill caps the indexation rate at the lower of either the consumer price index or the wage price index, with effect from 1 June 2023. This wipes out what happened last year and ensures it can't happen again. This will cut around $3 billion in student debt for more than three million Australians. We will then deliver further relief to all Australians with student debt by 1 July next year—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, can you resume your seat for a moment? Senator Shoebridge, you're being very disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will then deliver further relief to all Australians with a student debt by 1 June next year, before the next round of indexation is applied. This will cut a further 20 per cent off all student debts. We will also raise the minimum repayment threshold to make the HECS repayment system fairer.</para>
<para>The third step is to establish an Australian tertiary education commission to provide advice to government on the setting of course fees. The government expects ATEC to be operating from the middle of next year. It's appropriate that any legislative changes go through the proper process of scrutiny and consultation, as the bill before us has. I can assure the Senate and the Australian community that the Australian Labor government and only the Albanese Labor government will cut a further 20 per cent off all student debts that exist at 1 June next year.</para>
<para>So what this actually is by the Greens is a political stunt. We're pretty used to them in this chamber, we'd have to say, from what they do from motion to motion, from policy to policy and from legislation to legislation. The Greens are proposing that we make significant structural changes to the HECS system without the Senate applying any scrutiny to it. No inquiries, no community consultation—absolutely nothing. They announced that they would be moving these amendments over a week ago, in a media release. Then there was silence until moments before the committee stage began this afternoon, when we finally saw the amendments, all two pages of them.</para>
<para>Having done that, the Greens voted against a motion to have these amendments properly considered by a committee. That speaks volumes for where they're at. The committee would consider, for example, if the mechanisms they propose are appropriate, if they have any unintended consequences, if they leave any students behind or if they don't grasp all of the complexities of the HELP system.</para>
<para>Instead, they expect this chamber to make significant structural changes to the HECS system on a handful of hours' notice of the provisions on a two-page amendment. It's an irresponsible approach and it's disrespectful of the process being undertaken here, and the government will, therefore, not support it. It is, however, emblematic of how the Greens approach so many areas of national importance, whether that be housing or education—they pursue stunts instead of good policy, media releases instead of considered amendments. The amendments will be opposed.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That says it all. For Labor, it's a stunt to try to do something about student debt and try to do it now. It's disrespectful to try to help so many millions of people being crushed under the load of student debt which shouldn't exist anyway. That's the reason student debt can't be fixed; student debt shouldn't exist. Here we are, putting your own policy in front of you to say, 'Sure, we legislate it now,' but you won't even do that. You stand here and go on about the hypocrisy of the Greens trying to be political—sorry, this has been our policy. You only moved to do even this meagre 20 per cent because you were forced to do so and because the community is really suffering in the cost-of-living crisis, with ever increasing student debt. It's pretty shameful that Labor can't even vote for their own policy and are coming up with these ridiculous excuses when they're bringing in bill after bill which are really complex and will have terrible consequences. They are ramming them through this week, but they stand here and say abolishing, or legislating to abolish, 20 per cent of student debt is somehow this complex bill which will have unintended consequences. The only consequence it will have is that people will get certainty that some of their student debt at least will be wiped by next year.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The hypocrisy of Labor to say that the reason they won't support these Greens' amendments to implement Labor policy to cut 20 per cent of debt is it needs to go to an inquiry because it's complex. This is the same Labor government that's ramming through three aggressive attacks on migration law with a 24-hour inquiry into migration law. They're willing to smash the rights of people seeking asylum without an inquiry, but they're not willing to cut student debt without an inquiry. This is the same Labor government that's ramming through a deal with Peter Dutton, shaking hands with the opposition leader to put through the most self-interested donations law reforms without an inquiry. They're willing to give themselves millions of dollars of additional funding without an inquiry but they won't cut student debt without an inquiry.</para>
<para>Do you know what? Labor do have a record on student debt. Labor created student debt. Labor created HECS debt. It was brought to you by a Labor government, by a bunch of entitled Labor politicians who had a free university education. Labor invented the entire concept of student debt for Australia. They put it in a ribbon—it's brought to you by Labor. Yes, Labor has a very clear tradition on this. If anyone's wondering about where their debt came from, just remember this: Labor invented student debt. Labor created HECS debt. A bunch of Labor politicians who got free education came up with the idea of putting this generation of students into debt, and now they won't even join with the Greens to give it a haircut of 20 per cent, which is their policy. Shame on Labor!</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What Senator Shoebridge doesn't understand is the history of HECS. Back in those days when the Hawke government invented HECS, most of those people hadn't actually been to university. What HECS was able to do is expand the number of people from working-class families who could go and study at university. That's what it did. You oppose that with hypocrisy, by actually pursuing this issue when it's Labor who have done more for people to attend university than any government.</para>
<para>We're proud of our record when it comes to HECS and the opportunity that it has provided. We are also passionate about ensuring that when we lower it, it goes through a proper process to ensure that it has the impact that we want it to.</para>
<para>So we will absolutely defend HECS and the role it has played in expanding the number of people who go to university. Our aim is to see more and more people be able to go to university. That's what the Accord process was all about. That's what we're trying to implement here today, to ensure that that opportunity is open to more Australians, particularly those from rural, regional and remote locations and those from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. This is the first part of that legislation. It's really important that we do it but that we do it in a considered way, and this bill has gone through that process.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to Labor's policy, its 20 per cent discount—of course, it's now voting against its own policy, as everyone can see—I think it's really important to put on the record here what the experts are saying. Chris Richardson, the leading Australian economist, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… handing $16bn to graduates is a reverse Robin Hood: it's a tax cut targeted to the big end of town—</para></quote>
<para>and we know Labor is good at looking after the big end of town—</para>
<quote><para class="block">with money going from the less well off to the better off.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's a fairness fail.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Worse still, that $16bn does nothing for the nation's future.</para></quote>
<para>Andrew Lilley, the chief interest rate strategist with Barrenjoey, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Just sad to see this. Many good ways to "spend" ten billion. Attempting to buy 3 million votes in a close election is not a good one. We should be wary—creeping populism can grow for decades.</para></quote>
<para>And this is from Ashley Craig, economist:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"This is an abominable idea that gives precious tax dollars to rich Australians while doing nothing to help with the currently elevated cost of living.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"If it is popular, it is because people don't understand this, and are being misled."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"This is exceptionally bad policy which favours the rich, doesn't help with current cost of living, and does nothing to encourage higher ed."</para></quote>
<para>This is very bad policy. As I said before, this wreaks of unfairness. This wreaks of elitism. This wreaks of Labor looking after the top end of town. I say to Labor: it's time this government starts looking at ordinary, hard-working Australians and starts treating all Australians with the fairness they deserve.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, I don't believe any Australians are ordinary; I think they're all exceptional. They all work hard, and we want to see all those people    have the opportunity to get ahead, which is why we want to ensure that they can have access to a higher education degree, if that's what they want to pursue, but that it is also one that doesn't burden them into the future. So what I would point out are the comments from Bruce Chapman, who is the architect of HECS, and he had the following to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is generally and correctly believed that the overall level of HECS-HELP debt has become excessive and that, in this context, a one-off 20 per cent cut in the level of debt is welcome …</para></quote>
<para>That's from the architect of HECS, Bruce Chapman, with his comments on our recent announcement.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a question for the minister. If Mr Chapman says that cutting 20 per cent is welcome, why won't Labor do it now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Allman-Payne. As I talked through before in my response to Senator Faruqi, we want to do that policy in a considered way where we're able to treat the Senate with the respect it deserves and also those stakeholders with the respect they deserve by going through a proper committee process. We had an amendment to that regard as a second reading amendment. Unfortunately, that was voted down. But we think that that substantial change does need to be properly scrutinised to ensure that it is done in the appropriate way and people have the opportunity to contribute to that debate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the international student caps bill went through a very rigorous inquiry process where literally every single person who gave evidence said that the bill should be canned, yet you are pushing ahead with this bill. Are there double standards here, where you make a decision on whatever is more opportunistic for the Labor government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Faruqi. No, I don't believe so. I think what that goes to is the thorough process that we went through with regard to the international student numbers. That bill was worked on for months by the committee. A substantial report and amount of work was put into it. It's really disappointing that those who participated in it still chose to oppose that bill, which we think was an important one for universities in this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Very briefly, I want to correct the record in relation to the student debt that Australians have faced under this government. One of the drivers for this bill is that student debt is out of control under Labor, and this is a direct consequence of Labor's high inflation and economic mismanagement. Labor has had to desperately scramble to change HELP indexation and the way it is calculated because we have seen student debt rise by nearly 16 per cent under this government—by 3.9 per cent on 1 June 2022, by 7.1 per cent on 1 June 2023 and by 4.7 per cent on 1 June 2024. For someone with an average loan of around $24,700 as at June 2022, this has meant a crippling increase of around $4,000. Contrast that with the average annual indexation of 1.7 per cent under the former coalition government. Even if this bill comes through, effecting the change in HECS indexation, Australians are not going to forget. This still means an increase in student debt of 11.1 per cent.</para>
<para>As for the rubbish that we're hearing about $3 billion being wiped, the bottom line is that, out of three million debtors, it's estimated that only about 200,000 of those Australians will receive a refund. For most Australians, this adjustment will appear in their HELP loan account and, of course, whatever adjustment does occur in their HELP loan account will be eaten away by future indexation.</para>
<para>This government has failed students who have a student loan. We've seen this government's inflation—high inflation, homegrown inflation—drive student debt sky-high, and now this government is scrambling to rewrite history. But I can assure the minister, and I can assure the Prime Minister and the Minister for Education: Australians will not forget what you have done to them, including the three million Australians with a student loan.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Henderson, for that contribution. But, honestly, I can't believe that you would raise the cost of degrees for people, given the record of the previous government. The damage that you did with the cost of degrees was completely outrageous. That is still being felt across the university sector.</para>
<para>Also, when it come to the economy, what did we inherit when we came to government? Inflation was much higher and rising. It is now lower and falling. That's the record of our government: inflation is lower and falling, when it was higher and rising under our predecessors. It had a six in front of it under the previous government; it now has a two in front of it. We've delivered two budget surpluses, because we know that it is important to ensure we do that to bring down inflation. We've created a million new jobs. It's an economic record that this government is proud of.</para>
<para>In terms of capping the HELP indexation rate to the lower of either the CPI or the wage price index, that's a recommendation of the Universities Accord. It will prevent growth in student debt from outpacing wages into the future. This change will provide relief for students while continuing to protect the integrity and value of the HELP system, which has massively expanded higher education access for millions of Australians. That is what we are trying to achieve with this bill, and that is why it is important for the Australian people.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There being no more contributions, the question is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 3140 be agreed to. A division is required. We will defer the division to a later date, given that is it after 6.30 pm.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Greens amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 2952 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the House of Representatives be requested to make the following amendments:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 9), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 4, page 34 (lines 1 to 25), omit the Schedule, substitute::</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 — Pay students for mandatory placements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 1 — Main amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After Part 2-2A</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 2-2B — Grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Division 39 — Grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-1 What this Part is about</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Grants are payable under this Part to Table A providers and Table B providers to pay, as a benefit to students, Commonwealth stipends to students who undertake a mandatory placement for a course of study with the provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: This Part does not apply to Table C providers: see section 5-1.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-2 The Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Grants under this Part are also dealt with in the Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines. The provisions of this Part indicate when a particular matter is or may be dealt with in these Guidelines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: The Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines are made by the Minister under section 238-10.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-3 Eligibility of higher education providers to receive grants for Commonwealth stipends</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) *Table A providers and *Table B providers are eligible to receive, for the year 2025 or a later year, a grant to pay, as a benefit to students, *Commonwealth stipends to students who *undertake a mandatory placement for a *course of study with the provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A student <inline font-style="italic">undertakes a mandatory placement</inline> for a *course of study with a higher education provider if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the student undertakes a placement with an employer for which the student is not entitled to be paid remuneration; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the placement is a requirement of the course of study with the provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the student is *enrolled in the course of study with the provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the placement is authorised under a law or an administrative arrangement of the Commonwealth, a State or a Territory; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) any other requirements prescribed by the Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines for the purposes of this paragraph are met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A provider that is eligible to receive a grant under subsection (1) is an <inline font-style="italic">eligible stipend provider</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-4 Conditions of grants</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section sets out the conditions of a grant under this Part for an *eligible stipend provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">First condition</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">provider must pay Commonwealth stipends</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The first condition is that the provider must pay, to each student who *undertakes a mandatory placement for a *course of study with the provider, a *Commonwealth stipend worked out in accordance with section 39-5 for the hours the student undertakes in the placement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Second condition</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">quality and accountability requirements</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The second condition is that the provider must meet the *quality and accountability requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Third condition</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">other prescribed requirements</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The third condition is that the provider must meet any other requirements prescribed by the Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines for the purposes of this subsection.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-5 Commonwealth stipends rate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A *Commonwealth stipend for the hours in a day that a student *undertakes a mandatory placement for a *course of study with an *eligible stipend provider is worked out using the hourly rate mentioned in subsection (2) for the day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The hourly rate for a day is the national minimum wage (when expressed as a monetary amount per hour) set by a *national minimum wage order that is in operation on the day (whether the order has also taken effect on that day).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: For when a national minimum wage order comes into operation, see section 287 of the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) For the purposes of subsection (2):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the national minimum wage is taken to be the wage set by the national minimum wage order for employees in relation to whom no exceptional circumstances exist (see subsection 287(2) of the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline>); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Fair Work Commission makes a determination under section 296 of the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline> varying a national minimum wage order; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the day the determination comes into operation under section 297 of that Act is earlier than the day the determination is made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the determination is taken to come into operation on the day the determination is made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-6 Amounts payable under this Part</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Amounts payable</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) If a higher education provider is eligible to receive a grant under this Part for a year, there is payable by the Commonwealth to the provider for the year, an amount equal to the greater of the following amounts:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the amount worked out for the provider and the year using the method prescribed by the Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines for the purposes of this paragraph;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the amount determined by the Minister under subsection (2) for the provider and the year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Minister must determine sufficient grant amount</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Minister must, by legislative instrument, determine an amount for an *eligible stipend provider and a year for the purposes of paragraph (1)(b).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: A single instrument may determine amounts for multiple eligible stipend providers and years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A determination of an amount under subsection (2) for a provider and a year:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) must be made before the start of the year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) may be varied at any time before the end of the year, but no later.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Before the Minister makes an instrument under subsection (2):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) to determine an amount for an eligible stipend provider and a year; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) to vary an amount for an eligible stipend provider and a year;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the Minister must be satisfied that the amount, as determined or varied, is sufficient for the provider to pay *Commonwealth stipends to students *undertaking a mandatory placement for a *course of study with the provider in that year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-7 Other matters relating to grants for Commonwealth stipends</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commonwealth Stipends Guidelines may provide for, or in relation to, the following matters in respect of grants under this Part to *eligible stipend providers to pay *Commonwealth stipends to students *undertaking a mandatory placement for a *course of study with the provider:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) how grants to providers are to be made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) how providers are to pay Commonwealth stipends to students of the provider;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the conditions that apply to Commonwealth stipends;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) information that providers are to give to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Minister; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the *Chief Executive Centrelink or a Departmental employee (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Human Services </inline><inline font-style="italic">(Centrelink) Act 1997</inline>); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Secretary, or an employee, of the Department administered by the Minister who administers the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-8 Rollover of grant amounts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) If:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a higher education provider to which a grant under this Part has been made in respect of a year fails to spend an amount of that grant; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the *Secretary determines under subsection (3) that this section is to apply to the provider in respect of that grant;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">then so much of the unspent amount as the Secretary determines under that subsection is taken to be granted to the provider under this Part in respect of the next following year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The grant is taken to be made:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) under the same conditions as the conditions of the original grant except the grant is taken to be made in respect of the next following year; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) under such other conditions as the Secretary determines under subsection (4).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) For the purposes of subsection (1), the Secretary may, by notifiable instrument, determine:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) that this section is to apply to a particular higher education provider in respect of one or more grants; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) for each grant, an amount of the unspent amount of the grant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) For the purposes of paragraph (2)(b), the Secretary may, by notifiable instrument, determine conditions that apply to one or more grants made to a particular higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-9 Constitutional basis of this Part</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Part relies on the Commonwealth's legislative powers under paragraph 51(xxiiiA) (benefits to students) of the Constitution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">39-10 Additional operation of this Part</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) In addition to section 39-9, this Part also has effect as provided by this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Territories</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) This Part also has the effect it would have if a reference to a grant under this Part were expressly confined to a grant in or in relation to a Territory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Indigenous persons</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) This Part also has the effect it would have if a reference to a student *undertaking a mandatory placement for a *course of study with a higher education provider were expressly confined to a student who is an *Indigenous person.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 2 — Other amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After paragraph 3-5(1)(aa)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ab) grants for Commonwealth stipends;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 After paragraph 5-1(4)(aa)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ab) Part 2-2B (Commonwealth stipends);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Section 8-1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "4 kinds" (wherever occurring), substitute "5 kinds".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 Section 8-1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After:</para></quote>
<list>grants under Part 2-2A to Table A providers and Table B providers to assist Indigenous persons; and</list>
<quote><para class="block">insert:</para></quote>
<list>grants under Part 2-2B to Table A providers and Table B providers to pay Commonwealth stipends to students undertaking a mandatory placement for a course of study with the provider; and</list>
<quote><para class="block">6 Subparagraph 22-15(1)(a)(i)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "2-2A,", insert "2-2B,".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7 Sections 51-1, 54-1 and 164-15</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "2-2A," (wherever occurring), insert "2-2B,".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8 Paragraphs 180-25(5)(e) and (6)(e)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "2-2A", insert ", 2-2B".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 Subsection 238-5(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "section 38-45,", insert "39-6,".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10 Subsection 238-10(1) (after table item 3)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11 Subclause 1(1) of Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Commonwealth stipends</inline> means stipends payable:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) by an *eligible stipend provider to a student *undertaking a mandatory placement for a *course of study with the provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) in accordance with the conditions of a grant made by the Commonwealth to the provider under Part 2-2B.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">eligible stipend provider</inline> has the meaning given by subsection 39-3(3).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">national minimum wage order</inline> has the same meaning as in the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">undertake a mandatory placement</inline>: see subsection 39-3(2) for when a student undertakes a mandatory placement for a *course of study with a higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">12 Subparagraph 8(8)(zja)(ia)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "this section.", substitute "this section; or".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13 After subparagraph 8(8)(zja)(ia)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ib) Commonwealth stipends provided for under Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> (grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14 After subparagraph 195(2)(i)(xviii)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(xviiia) the amount of Commonwealth stipends received by the person in accordance with Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> (grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 After paragraph 202(1)(da)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(db) administering Commonwealth stipends provided for under Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> (grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">16 After paragraph 202(2)(daaa)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(daab) for the purposes of the administration of Commonwealth stipends provided for under Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> (grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Veterans' </inline> <inline font-style="italic">Entitlements Act 1986</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17 After paragraph 5H(8)(hac)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(had) the amount of Commonwealth stipends provided for under Part 2-2B of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> (grants for Commonwealth stipends for students undertaking mandatory placements);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">18 Transitional provision</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Paragraph 39-6(3)(a) of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline>, as inserted by this Part, does not apply to a determination for the year 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement pursuant to the order of the Senate of 26 June 2000</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (2) is framed as a request because it amends the bill to require the Commonwealth to provide grants to eligible higher education providers, a condition of which is that those providers must pay Commonwealth stipends to students who undertake a mandatory placement for a course of study with a higher education provider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the amendment requires the Commonwealth to provide grants to eligible higher education providers, the effect of the amendment would increase the amount of expenditure under the standing appropriation in section 238-12 of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1) is consequential to amendment (2).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement by the Clerk of the Senate pursuant to the order of the Senate of 26 June 2000</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the effect of the amendment is to increase expenditure under the standing appropriation in section 238-12 of the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> then it is in accordance with the precedents of the Senate that the amendment be moved as a request.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This amendment is consequential on the request. It is the practice of the Senate that an amendment that is consequential on an amendment framed as a request may also be framed as a request.</para></quote>
<para>As far as mandatory placements go, this bill is a move in the right direction. But, I have to say, it reflects a real lack of understanding of the severity of placement poverty and its impacts on students at the moment. We support what's in the bill—that is, nursing, teaching and social work students being paid for mandatory placements. But the other thousands of students who do hundreds of hours of mandatory placements to complete their degrees should also be paid. What about students doing allied health or veterinary science or psychology or medicine, and so many others? Every student should be paid for every hour of their labour.</para>
<para>This bill only just touches the sides of the issue of placement poverty. I'm sure every single senator in this place has heard from students, especially in this cost-of-living crisis but even without the cost-of-living crisis, about how they have struggled when they have to do hundreds of hours of unpaid placement work when they are already finding it so difficult to make ends meet, to put food on the table, to go to the dentist, to go to the doctor or to pay their rent. On top of that, when they have to do placements some of them have had to take loans out or give up their paid jobs. If they don't give up their paid jobs, they're pretty much working 24/7.</para>
<para>The Greens' amendments ensure that all students are paid for the work that they do, no matter what degree they are doing, and require that payments be made at a national minimum wage. At the moment, the way it works out is $8 an hour, which is literally peanuts. These amendments would also commence earlier, on 1 January 2025. Students can't wait another eight months, until July next year, to start being paid for the work they do.</para>
<para>One of the other things our amendments do is enshrine the Commonwealth practical placements into legislation. That's what is needed. They ensure that all students who undertake mandatory practical placements as part of their studies are paid for that. I hope we can push for a move further on providing that every single student who does mandatory placements be paid for them at a minimum wage. I have heard from so many students, and recently from medical students, who are really struggling. They are the ones who do the maximum amount of hours for their placements, and they have been telling me that marginalised students especially, from marginalised communities, suffer the most. Many students have to travel as well to do their placements.</para>
<para>This is a way of ensuring that the system is fair and that every student is paid for every hour at a minimum wage, and that it is a universal payment. At the moment students are going to be chosen, as to who will get paid for mandatory placements. I commend these amendments to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not support these amendments. They go beyond the scope of the placements and they are beyond education and training. The intention of these payments is to provide cost-of-living support to students undertaking workplace based training rather than being paid for work. Students in receipt of a payment must be undertaking placements that are lawfully unpaid because of the definition of 'vocational placement' under the Fair Work Act 2009.</para>
<para>This requires that the person is not entitled to receive any remuneration for their work.</para>
<para>The proposed amendments also seek to enshrine guidelines in legislation. It is standard practice for programs of this nature to have their details outlined in guidelines. It helps with implementation. There have been a number of recent examples of this.</para>
<para>Regarding implementation from 1 January 2025, this is a new program. Providers need time to put in place arrangements to ensure payments are able to be made to students. These include new systems, communications, marketing and reporting arrangements. The government has been consulting with the sector to ensure the program can be implemented and administered simply while remaining targeted to those students who need it most.</para>
<para>Eligibility for Commonwealth prac payments will be targeted to students on low-income support and students who typically need to work to support themselves while studying. These students typically face the greatest financial pressure during placements. Eligibility criteria will be finalised in consultation with stakeholders following the passage of the legislation and well before the commencement date of 1 July 2025.</para>
<para>The guidelines are disallowable instruments. They can be considered by members of parliament once tabled, and that is standard practice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 2952 be agreed to. A division is required. Given it's after 6.30, we'll hold that division at a later time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move the opposition's amendment on sheet 3045.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Henderson, we cannot proceed any further because of contingencies on other motions. We'll have to deal with that at a later time. You can make a contribution, though; you just can't move any other amendments. Alternatively, the committee can report progress and we'll deal with it at another time. I'm in the hands of the Senate.</para>
<para>Progress reported.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>128</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7253" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>128</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm speaking in continuation on the Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024. This bill brings a critical issue before the Senate today: the future of our education system.</para>
<para>There is arguably nothing that is more important than this subject. While this bill seeks to amend the Australian Education Act 2013 to increase federal funding for government schools, it falls short of addressing the core challenges facing our classrooms. The government claims that this is a step towards full and fairer funding for our schools, yet nearly three years into their term they have failed to secure a comprehensive national funding agreement. Sadly, only a few states and territories—Tasmania, Western Australia and the ACT—have struck bilateral deals to increase the Commonwealth funding contribution from 20 to 22.5 per cent. Meanwhile, the vast majority of government schools, 81 per cent, remain uncertain about their financial future. This bill also proposes raising the federal share to 40 per cent for Northern Territory schools by 2029, acknowledging the unique challenges that they face in the Territory. While this is welcome, there's no national reform strategy to ensure that every Australian child receives a quality education.</para>
<para>The Albanese government has failed to deliver on its promises, and time is running out, with the current school reform agreement set to expire at the end of 2024, just over one month away. The situation is dire. One in three students are not meeting minimum standards in NAPLAN, and international assessments paint an even bleaker picture. Recent PISA results show that Australian students are falling further behind their global peers, with nearly half of year 10 students struggling to achieve basic reading levels. Instead of improvement, we've seen years of decline, leaving our children unprepared for the future. To make matters worse, Australian classrooms rank among the unruliest in the world. Disruption undermines learning, with students distracted by devices and disengaged from lessons. Teachers cannot do their best work in such an environment. We need a clear strategy to restore discipline, including behaviour management programs and a stronger focus on evidence based teaching methods, like explicit instruction. The Education and Employment References Committee held an inquiry into this issue last year. The significant report that we provided as a committee to the Senate lays out some very important reforms that are necessary. The government needs to respond more sincerely to these recommendations.</para>
<para>I want to applaud the work of AERO in this area by developing resources for teachers, but more needs to be done by the government to drive these reforms across all jurisdictions. I fear that the agreements put in place as part of the funding agreement that this bill deals with doesn't hold the states to the account that is needed. I note that the title of the bill says 'funding and reform', but is it really both? Is it really reform? I would argue that the reforms do not go far enough, and that is something that we as a coalition are arguing. Senator Henderson made this point very clearly in her second reading speech. We are not doing enough as a country. This government, led by the Prime Minister, is not doing enough to address reform. The government's draft reforms, while addressing some areas like phonics checks and attendance goals, lack the depth of real change that is needed. We cannot afford half measures. A truly effective education system demands a back-to-basics approach where literacy and numeracy are prioritised and teachers are equipped with the tools that they require to succeed.</para>
<para>Nowhere are these challenges more evident than in Western Australia. Despite a $1 billion investment, making WA the first state to fully fund its public schools to the school resourcing standard, the teacher shortage crisis is spiralling out of control. Alarmingly, 80 per cent of WA teachers are choosing to leave or considering leaving this honoured profession, citing poor work-life balance and overwhelming workloads.</para>
<para>This situation is made worse by the mental health struggles that teachers face, with stress, anxiety and depression rates up to six times higher than the national average. Even more concerning is that public school teachers in WA experience violence in the workplace 11 times more often than the general population. This of course is unacceptable. On average a violent incident occurs in WA public schools—guess how often; it's not measured in hours—every 45 minutes. Violence is perpetrated in WA public schools every 45 minutes every day. These conditions are simply unacceptable.</para>
<para>As Dr Saul Karnovsky from Curtin University points out, the shortage is leaving schools struggling to staff classrooms, adding to the burden on already overworked teachers. Burnout is rising, and the quality of education is suffering as a result. We must take immediate action to support our teachers, improve their conditions and restore confidence in the teaching profession. Under the coalition we demonstrated how to lift standards. Over nine years we increased school funding significantly. We implemented stronger literacy programs and improved teacher training. Yet the current government falsely claims that we cut billions from education. These claims are baseless and only serve to distract from their own shortcomings.</para>
<para>A major issue lies with the states, which are not meeting their obligations under the Gonski funding model. While the Commonwealth consistently provides its agreed 20 per cent share, states like Queensland and Victoria are falling short, contributing just 69 per cent and 70 per cent respectively instead of the required 80 per cent. This underfunding at the state level leaves schools struggling, and it's where reform must focus. Again, it's about accountability. We need to see more accountability in these agreements.</para>
<para>But funding is only part of the solution. The quality of teaching and curriculum design are equally critical. Universities must improve teacher preparation, focusing on evidence based methods and practical classroom teaching and training. The Albanese government has been slow to act, giving universities until 2025 to update their courses. This delay is unacceptable when our students are already paying the price. Teacher shortages, as I've discussed already, compound these challenges, with many educators overwhelmed by administrative burdens and the overcrowding problem. The government's response—a few scholarships and an advertising campaign—falls woefully short, and we need practical solutions, such as fast-tracking teacher training reforms, cutting red tape and providing better support for mid-career professionals to transition into teaching.</para>
<para>The curriculum itself is another area in desperate need of reform. It's overly complex and fails to focus on foundational skills. Teachers and principals alike have called for a simpler, more targeted curriculum that gives students the essential knowledge that they need to thrive. Without this our education system will continue to lag behind international standards. We need less indoctrination and more education. Let's allow teachers to get back to basics in education. The stakes are high. Research shows that students who fall behind early often struggle to catch up, leading to disengagement and broader social issues. A failure to address these challenges today risks creating a generation ill equipped to meet the demands of tomorrow.</para>
<para>One final point that I'd like to highlight is the value of the private education system. Some in this place seem to take great joy out of attacking the role that it plays. This is sad. Whichever type of education a parent decides to send their children to—faith or non-faith schools, public or private—parents should have the choice. According to data from the Australian Curriculum, Assessment and Reporting Authority, the government provides about $14,000 in public funding per public high school student.</para>
<para>ABC News reported last year that private schools received less government funding per student—about $12,000 for Catholic school students and $10,000 for independent and non-government schools. Interestingly, in 2012, 63 per cent of high school students attended public schools, while 34 per cent attended private schools. Today the proportion of high school students in government schools has dropped to 57 per cent, compared to 41 per cent who attend non-government schools.</para>
<para>I don't need to remind senators that education is the absolute bedrock of our society. It shapes the future of our children and, in turn, the nation. This bill offers an opportunity to address some of the critical issues in our schools, but it's far from sufficient. The government must finalise funding agreements with all states and territories, and ensure reforms are comprehensive and deliver real support for teachers and students alike.</para>
<para>The coalition will support this bill because we believe in the importance of investing in education. However, we call on the government to move beyond rhetoric and take decisive action to lift our schools to the standards that Australia deserves. Let's give every child the tools to reach their full potential and secure a brighter future for all.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024. Public education in Australia is significantly underfunded, and this is exacerbating existing disparities in educational outcomes, and it's hindering the potential of millions of students. The funding shortfall is both a matter of resource allocation and a set of broader systemic ideological choices made by both the coalition and the Labor governments about the role of the state in supporting public education.</para>
<para>In a country with significant fiscal and state capacity such as Australia, the underfunding and abandonment of high-quality and free public schools is a choice. This choice is not forced on governments, but it is wilfully made, and it has both short- and long-term negative consequences for our young people and the nation. And so we ask: what is the point of government, if not to provide a world-class public education system for our children and young people? It is so bitterly disappointing that we have a government that refuses to prioritise public schools.</para>
<para>Australia's public schools have been chronically underfunded for decades. Despite the Gonski review recommendations, funding for public schools has consistently fallen short of the necessary levels required to ensure equitable education outcomes for every single child. The Gonski review, released way back in 2011, called for a new funding model that would better address the needs of educationally disadvantaged students and provide a more equitable distribution of school funding across the nation, and yet, a decade after that review, successive governments have failed to fully implement that model. The system as it's currently designed shovels money out the door and into private schools while neglecting public schools. Nobody ever said that 80 per cent of federal government money had to go to private schools, and yet here we are.</para>
<para>I want to be very clear. The policies of this government and previous governments have led to a two-tiered school system. The goals of educational equity and excellence are slipping further out of reach because governments are not investing in public education to the degree that is necessary.</para>
<para>Under the current system and legislation, state and territory governments provide most of the public funding for government schools and the minority of public funding for non-government schools, and it's the reverse for private schools. This system, based on the schooling resource standard, was supposed to ensure that each student attracts the level of funding needed for a good education, with loading for additional need. And the SRS is not an aspirational standard. It's based on the bare minimum level of funding that a school requires to get 80 per cent of students to the minimum standard. We're not even talking about that other 20 per cent. So we have a system where almost no public schools are at 100 per cent of the schooling resource standard and where most private schools are at or above 100 per cent. Where I worked in Gladstone, the public high school got less government money per student than the Catholic school up the road. That is a system that is fundamentally broken.</para>
<para>While the federal government's focus is on funding private schools, states are also allowed to engage in dodgy accounting tricks that include non-educational spending in their share of public school funding, and I note that this dodgy accounting is only allowed with regard to public schools, not private ones. So the public school system is getting dudded again. Due to allowable inclusions in the way states and territories can account for their contribution towards their share of the SRS, public schools will again be left underfunded, despite the new deal signed with WA, Tasmania and the NT. Minister Clare's statement that WA public schools will be fully funded has been labelled as misleading by independent fact checkers.</para>
<para>The underfunding of public schools has a direct and harmful impact on educational outcomes. The evidence is clear that increased funding has a positive effect on educational attainment, particularly for educationally disadvantaged students, the majority of whom are in our public schools. Research consistently shows that additional investment in schools, especially in low-income and educationally disadvantaged areas, leads to improved academic performance, enhanced student wellbeing and more effective teaching and learning. However, in many parts of Australia, public schools are operating with outdated or inadequate facilities, underresourced classrooms and insufficient support for students with highly complex needs. As a result, the students in these schools are at a significant disadvantage when compared to their peers in wealthier private schools.</para>
<para>The underfunding of public schools also has a significant impact on teachers and school staff. Teachers in underfunded schools are often required to work with larger class sizes, outdated resources and insufficient support staff. This not only makes their jobs more difficult, but it also contributes to higher levels of workload intensification, stress, burnout and job dissatisfaction. It is no surprise that teachers are continuing to flee the public education system. Teachers are the backbone of the education system, and their ability to deliver quality education is heavily reliant on the resources that are available to them. Without adequate funding, teachers are forced to spend their own money on classroom materials. For public school teachers, they currently average around $1,000 a year out of their own pocket. They have to take on additional duties beyond their role, and they face an increasingly complex and challenging work environment. This has a detrimental effect on teacher retention, especially in locations with higher need, where the failure of adequate resourcing makes it harder to attract and retain educators.</para>
<para>Underfunding also disproportionately affect students experiencing educational disadvantage, including those from low-income families, First Nations students, those from rural and remote areas and students with disabilities. These students require additional support in terms of financial resources and targeted interventions to overcome the barriers they face in accessing a quality education. However, under the current funding model, these students are often left behind. They're often in the 20 per cent that we're not even accounting for in our funding. Public schools often lack specialised staff such as social workers, mental health professionals and speech therapists who can provide essential supports to students. As a result, public school students may struggle to achieve their full potential, with long-term consequences for their social mobility and life outcomes.</para>
<para>The Greens firmly believe that all students, regardless of their background, should have access to a high-quality education and the support that they need to succeed. This is a rare opportunity to end decades of underfunding and to save public education in this country. Let me be clear. As was pointed out by Senator O'Sullivan, parents are fleeing the public education system. This is what the Greens stand for: world-class, free public education, accessible for every child. We have a fundamental and deeply held belief in the value of public education. It's transformative. The Commonwealth government must raise its offer to fund public schools from a conditional 22.5 per cent of the schooling resource standard to a minimum of 25 per cent because anything less will lock in another decade of underresourcing of our public school system and will condemn another generation of children and young people to a substandard public education. Public education is the fundamental building block of Australian society. If Labor can't fund that properly, what are they doing here?</para>
<para>The government must make a choice. Will it further entrench a two-tier system where public schools which educate the vast majority of educationally disadvantaged students are forced to struggle by on inadequate funding, or will it invest in our children and young people and properly invest in and fund our public schools? Analysis from the Australian Education Union shows that more than half of all Australian private schools receive more government funding per student than comparable public schools. Every single school parent can see that this is a deeply broken, inequitable and damaging system. We have one of the widest inequality gaps in the OECD, and no-one funds their education system like we do. We're an outlier.</para>
<para>Among the government's proposed changes is a proposal to change the Commonwealth share of public school funding from a default cap of 20 per cent to a floor of 20 per cent, including a ratchet mechanism. The Greens are supportive of a positive ratchet on the share of Commonwealth funding for government schools, but the legislated 20 per cent default is a coalition relic. It is astounding that this bill does not guarantee more funding for public schools; it is reheated coalition policy. What the Greens are proposing is simply common sense: ensure that all public schools are fully funded to 100 per cent of the SRS. That starts by lifting the Commonwealth share to a minimum of 25 per cent. It is widely acknowledged that this is what is needed. Given the federal government's significantly greater fiscal capacity, it's a drop in the ocean when compared to other government expenditure. A drop in the ocean to give our kids the best possible shot in life is a price worth paying.</para>
<para>Should the government not be willing to lock in a 25 per cent minimum contribution, at the very least they should establish a floor contribution of 22½ per cent, which is their own policy and is exactly what they are offering to the states. By locking in a 22.5 per cent floor, the government can guarantee at least some rise to the level of public school funding and futureproof it right now against the coalition. For too long, public schools and public-school students have fallen through the cracks, with neither the states nor the federal government interested in delivering 100 per cent of the Schooling Resource Standard.</para>
<para>The Greens will be supporting this bill in order to provide some certainty in case the coalition are elected. While we do not see this bill as even remotely adequate, we are supportive of the ratchet mechanism and the mild increase to public school funding. We have an absurd situation where the federal government, with vastly more revenue than the states and territories, is chiefly responsible for subsidising the overfunded private sector while public schools, who serve the majority of educationally disadvantaged kids in our communities, remain fundamentally less well off. All kids deserve a fully funded public school education. It's what every society should strive for, and in a rich country like ours it should be a given. The community expects the government to ensure every child has access to high-quality, free education, and that is what the Greens will continue to push for.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank all senators for their contributions to this debate. The Better and Fairer Schools (Funding and Reform) Bill 2024 is an important bill. It will increase funding for public schools across the country by changing the Commonwealth contribution to the Schooling Resource Standard for government schools.</para>
<para>This bill ties funding to reform under the Better and Fairer Schools Agreement. These reforms will help Australian students catch up, keep up and finish school. It also ties funding to practical things like phonics checks, numeracy checks, evidence based teaching and catch-up tutoring to identify students who need additional support and to make sure they get it.</para>
<para>Under the current settings, the Commonwealth government provides 80 per cent of SRS funding for non-government schools and the state and territory governments provide the other 20 per cent. For public schools it's the reverse; the Commonwealth provides 20 per cent of the SRS funding and the states and territories are supposed to provide at least another 75 per cent. That means there is a five per cent gap. At the last election we promised to work with the states and territories to get all schools on a path to 100 per cent of the SRS and fill that five per cent gap.</para>
<para>What this means is both the Commonwealth government and the states and territories contributing more.</para>
<para>To lift the Commonwealth contribution for public schools, we have to amend the Australian Education Act. At the moment, the way the Australian Education Act works is that the Commonwealth government can provide a maximum of 20 per cent funding of the Schooling Resource Standard, that standard that David Gonski—</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>132</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef</title>
          <page.no>132</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A little over a week ago, I delivered my annual report to the minister detailing my second year as Special Envoy for the Great Barrier Reef. The past year has undoubtedly been a challenging one for the reef and coral ecosystems around the world, as evidenced by the most recent reports from the Australian Institute of Marine Science. This is why the Albanese government has stepped up reef protection efforts since coming to office two years ago, delivering a record $1.2 billion investment in a range of important programs. My focus as special envoy has been to ensure that this investment is delivered and is making a difference.</para>
<para>I'm pleased that in the past two years we have delivered record funding for water quality measures in catchments right across Queensland, continued funding for a crown-of-thorns starfish control program, commenced the process to make the reef gill-net free by 2027, doubled funding for reef science and extended the Tourism Reef Protection Initiative. All of these efforts have been recognised by UNESCO in its decision to maintain the reef's World Heritage listing. However, we know there is always more work to do.</para>
<para>Protecting the reef and building its resilience is a task that we all have a role in, and progress is most effective and long lasting when we work in strong partnership across governments, industry, science and research, and traditional owners. The Great Barrier Reef is a very special place. I'm proud to call it my home, and I'm also extremely proud of the dedicated network of people who work each and every day in the water and in the catchments to ensure the reef is protected for generations to come. I recognise the role that they play and thank them for their continuing insights and expertise.</para>
<para>Of course, Labor has always had a proud tradition of standing up to protect the Great Barrier Reef. Today marks 50 years since former prime minister Gough Whitlam stood up in Cairns and declared that the Labor government would establish the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park to protect the reef against the threat of oil drilling from the Joh Bjelke-Petersen government. Mr Whitlam said at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will take this action to protect an irreplaceable part of Australia's natural heritage. We are determined to safeguard the reef and ensure its survival. We will preserve it both for its intrinsic value and its importance to the tourist industry of Queensland.</para></quote>
<para>Fifty years on, the reef faces another major threat, and the community of Cairns, where Whitlam made his speech, faces an uncertain future. It is only a Labor government that is willing to take action to protect the reef and the thousands of jobs that rely on it. We're delivering $1.2 billion of record funding to protect the reef, we are taking action on climate change to reduce emissions and we are working towards our renewable energy targets. But this is all at risk if Peter Dutton becomes Prime Minister. The Liberal and National parties are arrogantly ignoring the science and the wishes of the community, and they are pushing ahead with a policy that will harm the reef in real terms and reputationally. Peter Dutton's expensive nuclear plan will mean more emissions for much longer. Nuclear means no net zero, which means no Great Barrier Reef. For communities like Cairns, where hundreds of businesses and thousands of jobs are at risk if we don't protect the reef, too much is at stake to take a risk on Peter Dutton's expensive nuclear plan.</para>
<para>We would love to know if the LNP candidate for Leichhardt, Jeremy Neal, supports this destructive and expensive nuclear plan, but he has refused to speak to the media about this issue. It is obvious why—because you can't support the tourism industry in Cairns if you also support Peter Dutton's nuclear plan. Jeremy 'Nuclear' Neal can either support our city or back his masters in Brisbane. He cannot do both.</para>
<para>Labor governments always have and always will step up to protect the reef and the jobs that rely on it. Whether it's oil drilling or nuclear, under the LNP the reef will always be at risk.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Territory: Family, Domestic and Sexual Violence</title>
          <page.no>133</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Youth Voice in Parliament Week</title>
          <page.no>134</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am deeply honoured to be given the opportunity today to deliver speeches written by young Queenslanders as part of the Raise Our Voice in Parliament campaign. In particular, I want to give a shout-out to Aleena and Maram from Chancellor State College for their excellent speeches and also for their patience in waiting for me to read them out. Aleena from Chancellor State College says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Today I want to talk about making food prices lower. Food isn't just a want, it's a need for life. Food these days costs an arm and a leg.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People have to plan their weeks worth of money on food. They spend half or more of their income on food. We have to ensure that food prices are fair and that everybody has food to live.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together with a bit of support from parliament we could make children grow happily and healthy. I believe this could happen!</para></quote>
<para>Thanks, Aleena. I completely agree.</para>
<para>Maram from Chancellor State College says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Today, I want to talk about rental homes. Many families rent their houses. Rentals are not just homes; they are places of hope, dreams, and stability. Everyone deserves a safe and comfortable place to live.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Renting can also be complex. Some people struggle to find affordable options. Prices can be too high, making it hard for families to thrive. We need to ensure that rental prices are fair and that everyone has access to a good home. This will help communities grow and support families in need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Let us come together to create better rental solutions. We can work on laws that protect tenants and ensure safe living conditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together, we can build a brighter future where no one is left behind. Imagine a world where every child can grow up safe and happy in their home. I believe we can make this happen!</para></quote>
<para>Thanks, Maram. I'm concerned about rental affordability too, and I couldn't agree with you more.</para>
<para>Thank you to both Aleena and Maram for taking the time and effort to raise your voices and to share your ideas with the parliament. You should both be proud.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations: Amazon</title>
          <page.no>134</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This Friday marks Black Friday, a period that will see many Australians purchasing items on sale with an eye to the upcoming Christmas period. Many of these bargains will be fulfilled online through Amazon's distributive centres and, more importantly, through Amazon's distribution workers. While many Australians will be enjoying the fruits of their labours, I want to dedicate my adjournment speech to the workers themselves and call out the antiworker practices that are part of the Amazon model.</para>
<para>Amazon consistently talks up the efficiency and cost savings of technology and innovation. However, the reality is modern-day worker exploitation, surveillance and a workplace culture that values profits over people. This has seen the proliferation of intense observation and scrutiny of workers and their every behaviour and activity, in order to squeeze every last drop of their blood, sweat and tears.</para>
<para>There are countless examples of this calculated exploitation taking place. A 2019 article by the ABC quoted one Amazon worker stating that, due to the relentless metrics set for each hour, he does not drink water, lest he need to use the bathroom and not reach his requirements. Another worker stated that the expectation to collect 120 products an hour had caused her stress, as there was no differentiation in the system between gathering light products and gathering others that weigh 15 or 20 kilograms.</para>
<para>Amazon is antiworker and fiercely anti-union. Mass surveillance was used to override an onsite HR representative and claim that an SDA delegate was technically closer than two metres to an Amazon worker. Ten days after the fact, this was advised in a letter to the union. This was clearly the result of a meticulous CCTV review and was a clear message that Amazon are always watching and that they were not on the side of the workers.</para>
<para>To Amazon, I want to say that the parliament see what you are doing, and we, too, are taking note.</para>
<para>I note that Amazon is a champion tax dodger, with the Fair Tax Foundation finding that Amazon has the worst conduct amongst the tech giants. In July 2024, Italy's tax police seized 121 million euros from Amazon's Italian subsidiary as part of an investigation into alleged tax fraud and illegal labour practices. The Milan prosecutors' office accused Amazon Italia Transport of circumventing labour and tax laws, relying on cooperatives or limited-liability companies that supplied workers while omitting VAT duties and reducing social security payments—hardly an ethical player in the public place.</para>
<para>But there are ways to hold Amazon to account. Amazon Web Services delivers 67 per cent of Amazon's profits and is a major beneficiary of lucrative public contracts, including many from the Australian government. This helps power the Amazon behemoth and keep its practices going. However, the Australian government recognises that procurement is a major economic lever that can be used to hold actors to account. I understand this capacity more than most, through my work in the Senate and on the parliamentary inquiries that investigated PricewaterhouseCoopers. I note that it was PricewaterhouseCoopers' egregious behaviour that ultimately led to the selling off of their government procurement function, valued at $1 billion, for the sum of a mere $1.</para>
<para>I call on Amazon to be a responsible corporate actor; to see that, as a large employer in Australia, they owe a duty to their workers; and to notice that the union is there to champion rights and ensure that Amazon's workforce can absolutely be productive and as safe as possible. This is a very simple request from the workers. I also say it's time to update the workplace surveillance legislation for the current age, to look to protect our valuable workers and help bring joy to the holiday season.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>135</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to address the deeply troubling decision by the International Criminal Court to issue an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. This is not only an affront to the democratic principles Australia holds dear, but it betrays the total confusion and inconsistency that characterises the Albanese government's approach to Israel. The ICC's action singles out a leader of a democratic nation that is defending its citizens from terror, and it overlooks regimes that are recognised to be perpetuating violence. Israel is a nation with a robust legal system, an independent judiciary and a commitment to accountability. For the ICC to cast doubt on such a system raises serious questions about its true intentions and undermines its credibility. It also risks exacerbating the challenges faced by Palestinians and Israelis alike.</para>
<para>This situation must be viewed in the broader context of the Albanese government's constantly shifting position on Israel. The Albanese government has taken Australia down a path that not only undermines decades of bipartisan consensus but also risks fanning the flames of division here at home. Those of us in the Liberal Party believe in the fundamental rights and freedoms of all people. This includes the freedom of thought, worship and speech—values that are central to our parliamentary democracy. Again, they are values that Israel shares with us. It is deeply concerning to see Labor's actions aligning Australia with those who seek to delegitimise Israel on the global stage.</para>
<para>The ICC's decision has emboldened voices that perpetuate potentially inaccurate narratives about Israel. What this does is risk normalising antisemitism in Australian society at a time when we should be standing firm against all hatred in all its forms. To Australians watching, the contrast could not be clearer. The coalition stands with Israel affirming its inherent right to defend itself. We understand that freedom and security go hand in hand.</para>
<para>Compare this with Labor's inconsistencies, which betray a total lack of principled leadership. This lack of conviction risks undermining our own international credibility. It also weakens what should be bipartisan foundations on one of the most sensitive and significant issues in international affairs at this time. Surely, every Australian would agree that our focus should be on ending this conflict, not intensifying it. The ceasefires we should support are those that see all hostages released and terror organisations like Hamas and Hizballah disarmed. In standing with Israel, we stand for the values that define Australia—freedom, democracy and the rule of law. I urge the Albanese government to abandon its inconsistent and divisive approach and return to the principled bipartisan policies that have long been a hallmark of Australia's foreign policy.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pakistan: Freedom of Speech</title>
          <page.no>135</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, I rise to address a grave injustice that undermines democracy and silences dissent, not only in Pakistan but through the ripple effects felt here in Australia. My constituents believe that the former Prime Minister Imran Khan was detained to block him from contesting in free and fair elections. His arbitrary detention and the denial of free and fair trials, as documented by the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention and Amnesty International, are part of a broader campaign to deny people the right to democratically elect their leaders. When Pakistanis protested this injustice, thousands were arrested. Even those abroad, including Australians of Pakistani heritage, were targeted through transnational repression, threats to their families back home, surveillance and intimidation—all tools of control used by the military regime led by General Asim Munir. This is not about one man. It's about silencing an entire population to prop up a government whose mandate is deeply questionable, imposed by a military regime that has hijacked Pakistan's democracy.</para>
<para>The October election, widely deemed the most rigged in Pakistan's history, should have been scrutinised by the Commonwealth observer mission. Instead, its final report remains unpublished, allegedly at the request of Pakistan's military. Why isn't that report public? Even worse, Australia and other Commonwealth countries are arguably complicit in this abuse, not just in enabling repression abroad but in failing to protect their own nationals from the long arm of a military backed regime. Over the weekend, Australians took to the streets in every major city, demanding justice for Pakistan and protection for freedoms here. Their message is clear, and it echoes the saying of Dr Martin Luther King Jr: 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.' Today, I call on the Albanese Labor government to demand the release of the Commonwealth observer mission report, to unequivocally condemn transnational repression and to ensure that Australians, regardless of heritage, can speak freely without fear. Further, we should join the calls coming from our counterparts in the United States Congress to impose visa bans and asset freezes on General Asim Munir and others involved in corruption and human rights abuses. Anything less is complicity. Justice demands no less.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned a t 20:23</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>