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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2024-06-25</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
      <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 25 June 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 12:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend government business notice of motion No. 1 by omitting the Governor-General Amendment (Salary) Bill 2024 from paragraph (2)(a).</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) On Tuesday, 25 June 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the questions on all remaining stages of the following bills be put at 6 pm:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) paragraph (a) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) following the consideration of the bills, a message from the House of Representatives concerning the Treasury Laws Amendment (Support for Small Business and Charities and Other Measures) Bill 2023 be reported, and:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) a minister may move immediately—That the Senate does not further insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has insisted on disagreeing, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the question on that motion then be put immediately without amendment or debate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) at the conclusion of the consideration of the message the routine of business be the consideration of the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024 (second reading speeches only);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) divisions may take place after 6.30 pm for the purposes of the matters listed in paragraphs (a) and (c) only; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the Senate adjourn without debate at the conclusion of the second reading debate or on the motion of a minister, whichever is earlier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) On Wednesday, 26 June 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the questions on all remaining stages of the following bill be put at midday:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) paragraph (a) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) divisions may take place between 12.15 pm and 1.30 pm until consideration of the bills has concluded.</para></quote>
<para>This motion sets up very important time management for the next couple of days. The appropriation bills are included, and those budget bills need to pass today, which is why the motion has been drafted to allow those bills to be dealt with later this afternoon, along with the Treasury Laws Amendment (Support for Small Business and Charities and Other Measures) Bill. The motion also allows for debate on the vaping reforms, through the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. We understand that there is a lot of interest in this bill and that a lot of senators are wanting to contribute to this bill. This is the best way to allow for more time for second readers to occur tonight. It would set it up so that the second reading debate would continue until there are no further speakers wanting to contribute. The committee stage of the bill would be dealt with tomorrow.</para>
<para>The amendment allows the Governor-General Amendment (Salary) Bill 2024 to be dealt with separately. We will list that separately. It does need to pass this week, and I understand from my discussions across the chamber that there are senators who would like to contribute to that debate. If it were part of this motion, it may be that we would reach time on the contributions being made on vaping and that there wouldn't be time for contributions on the Governor-General bill. That's why we have moved the amended motion. I hope that the Senate is able to support this to allow fulsome debate on important legislation.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll be brief as per my commitment to the Manager of Government Business. I thank her for not moving the customary guillotines on these things. It's tempting to rail against another Labor-Greens guillotine bill, but simply let the statistics show the add-on of guillotines of bills that Labor and the Greens hypocritically continue to pile on in this place. I particularly want to highlight to the Senate—particularly to the Greens and the crossbench as they negotiate with the government in relation to these matters—the continued erosion of opportunities for senators to make free contributions in this place in the way in which these guillotine motions are being structured.</para>
<para>On this side, we would much rather see significant, additional time provided for matters, as occurred more frequently in the past, where the Senate would sit later hours, longer hours and extra days to progress bills through. It's not to say that guillotines didn't occur, but certainly there were far more opportunities. This guillotine, whilst providing extra time for second reading speakers tonight, does so at the expense of the open ended adjournment debate on a Tuesday night, which is all too routinely being knocked out. This guillotine also removes statements by senators from consideration tomorrow.</para>
<para>The point I make to the government, to the Greens and to others on the crossbench who sign up to these guillotine motions is that it is eroding the capacity of individual senators, particularly senators on the crossbench and especially senators on the backbenches of both sides, to make free and open contributions on matters that may not otherwise be structured. President, I implore and urge the government and others to consider that, in terms of time management, this could have been done last night. That would not have removed the open ended adjournment and would not have impacted upon senators who are here on Tuesday. They would have planned their opportunity this week to raise important matters for their constituency and related to their committee work in a range of other ways.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator Ayres. You may not care, but there are actually senators, diligent ones, on your side who I know like to use the adjournment contribution, as there are on our side and on the crossbench. We urge respect for that, rather than the continued erosion of those opportunities.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion, as moved and amended by Minister Gallagher, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:11]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>31</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025, Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</title>
          <page.no>3</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7187" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7188" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7186" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7190" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7189" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the appropriation bills 2024-25 and the supplementary additional appropriation bills 2023-24. Combined, Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025 and the Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025 provide for funds from consolidated revenue for the 2024-25 financial year. Collectively these bills provide for expenditure worth $187.5 billion to support the operation of government for the financial year 2024-25.</para>
<para>The opposition will be supporting these bills; however, the budget handed down with these appropriation bills fails Australians. Australians needed a budget that got back to basics, and this was a budget that didn't. This means we needed a budget that restored our standard of living by finally addressing inflation and the pressures being felt by families at the check-out and in their energy bills, a budget that restored prosperity and created opportunity by supporting small businesses and helping young Australians into a home, and a budget that restored budget discipline and honesty by restraining spending, by bringing back the fiscal guardrails and a tax-to-GDP gap, and by delivering a structural surplus, not a windfall surplus.</para>
<para>Labor's budget failed all of these tests. It simply delivered higher spending. Prime Minister Albanese and Treasurer Chalmer's budget tried to put bandaids on bullet wounds rather than deliver structural solutions to the cost-of-living crisis that Australians are facing under this Labor government. This Labor government would rather give handouts to Australians facing energy and housing pressure than tackle the issues that are driving these pressures: the supply of energy and the supply of new houses. The fact is that Australians still won't see the $275 reduction in their energy bills that the Prime Minister promised 97 times before the last election. In fact, many Australians would need to see a $1,000 cut in their power bills just to get to the promised $275 reduction.</para>
<para>On a similar basis, the Prime Minister promised cheaper mortgages to the Australian people if he was elected. But three years later the average Australian householder with a mortgage is $35,000 worse off, and according to experts this budget is likely to simply keep those rates higher for longer. As Michael Blythe, the chief economist at PinPoint Macro, said, the budget 'adds to the higher-for-longer interest rate thesis'. And Cherelle Murphy, the chief economist at EY, said</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Budget has thwarted the task of tightening the structural deficit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also undermines the Government's inflation forecast—which was lowered below the Reserve Bank's forecast and assumed to drop into the 2-3 per cent target band by the end of this year.</para></quote>
<para>The government's energy bill relief is simply a 'political trick', according to former Reserve Bank board member Warwick McKibbin, and 'smoke and mirrors', according to KPMG's chief economist, Brendan Rynne. What no-one else has called it is a long-term solution to Labor's high energy prices. So this was a bad budget. It was a bad budget and the wrong budget for these economic times, and we will continue to hold the government to account for it.</para>
<para>In addition, the supplementary additional appropriation bill of 2023-24 provides for the general purpose of government for the fiscal year 2023-24. Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024 provides a further $2.1 billion for the ordinary services of government, including $1.17 billion for the Social Services portfolio. Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024 provides just under half a billion dollars for certain expenditures relating to non-operating costs, including payments to the states and local government. The majority of this, $452 million, is for the Department of Defence. This expenditure allows for a reclassification from 'operating' to 'capital'.</para>
<para>The opposition will be supporting the passage of these bills, as we have the passage of the initial appropriation bill of 2023-24 and the additional appropriation bill of 2024-25. I also note the second reading amendment to the motion circulated by the Greens to progress these bills. The coalition knows the important role that gas has as a transition fuel to net zero and will be opposing that amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor has presented this budget while the climate is collapsing around us, while ecological systems are crashing and while millions of Australians are getting smashed by a cost-of-existence crisis, and Labor's response to this is not the strong, urgent action that these challenges demand. Labor has responded with a business-as-usual budget that is trying to convince Australians that these great challenges can be solved by continuing the very actions that have caused them or that have allowed them to happen. It's classic modern Labor—talk up an absolute storm and then abjectly fail to take strong and urgent action.</para>
<para>This budget locks in worsening economic inequality, and it will exacerbate the breakdown of the planet's climate and the ecosystems that ultimately support all life on the earth. It's a budget for the ultra-wealthy. It's a budget for the big corporations. It's a budget for the donors that line the coffers of the Australian Labor Party. On so many issues—climate change, the cost-of-living crisis—people are telling us it's getting harder and harder to tell the Labor and Liberal parties apart. This budget makes it even more clear that the political establishment in this place—the establishment political parties that make up the government and the opposition—are growing closer and closer together.</para>
<para>If a fire is burning, the last thing any reasonable person would do is pour more petrol on it. But that's exactly what this budget is doing. The Australian Labor Party continues to pump tens of billions of dollars into fossil fuel subsidies in every budget, and this budget is no exception Labor continues to put money into developing new coal and gas projects, and this budget is no exception. Our planet is literally cooking, and the cooking of our planet—global heating—is caused by burning fossil fuels and by logging native forests, but this budget does nothing meaningful to address those causes.</para>
<para>Not content that the world is now on track for a terrifying 2½ to three degrees of warming by the turn of the century, Labor continues to put public money into mapping new coal and gas reserves and providing the results of that mapping, paid for by the Australian people, to the big coal, gas and petroleum corporations—for nothing. These are public subsidies that underwrite corporate superprofits. Labor has opened up 47,000 square kilometres of ocean for the big gas corporations, the gas cartel, to exploit. Since Labor came into power about two years ago, the government has approved eight new gas projects and five new coal projects. Colleagues, the science is clear: no new coal and gas is the bare minimum that is necessary to ensure a safe climate on this planet. Yet Labor continues to approve new coal and gas mines hand over fist.</para>
<para>The government has also allocated, and it's in this budget, $1.5 billion of public money to develop the Middle Arm site, which will turn Darwin Harbour into a giant gas export facility and a giant petrochemical hub. Again, the petroleum, coal and gas corporations make off with crisis superprofits, and the petrochemical corporations make off with crisis superprofits, underwritten by billions in public subsidies delivered by the Australian Labor Party to corporate donors in the fossil fuel cartel. That's what's going on here. This is necro-capitalism. And this budget, in the face of the great challenges of our times, is an abject failure.</para>
<para>On Middle Arm, three-quarters of that site, which is going to receive $1½ billion in public subsidies, is set aside for gas and petrochemical companies. There is no way that that should be happening while the planet is heating so rapidly and with such devastating impacts on people around the world, on our ecosystems and on so many different species, many of which are on a pathway to extinction. But that problem is not just being permitted and allowed to happen by Labor; it's being facilitated by Labor, bankrolled by taxpayers.</para>
<para>This budget also locks in worsening inequality. We have a cost-of-living crisis caused by decades of neoliberal policies enshrined by the political establishment—Labor and Liberal. They've created an economy in which big corporations make massive profits, the ultrawealthy are making out like bandits and ordinary people are getting smashed. That has resulted in record inequality, and people are hurting. Millions of Australians are struggling. People are skipping meals to pay the rent. People are falling behind on their power bills to pay for GP visits.</para>
<para>Neither Labor nor Liberal will even acknowledge the excessive corporate profits that are driving this inequality and this cost-of-living crisis, whether it's the profits of the banks, those of the supermarkets, those of the energy corporations or those of property developers and speculators. The share of the economy that goes to corporate profits in Australia has never been higher, and the share of the economy that goes to people through their wages has never been lower. Colleagues, if that's not sounding the alarm bells for you then you are simply not paying attention. Of course, that disparity in income and wealth is not a bug; it's a feature of the system. It hasn't happened by accident; it's happening by design. In the Greens, we've done everything we can to reveal the price gouging of the big supermarkets and propose solutions, but instead Labor has decided to chase headlines rather than prioritise genuine help.</para>
<para>The neoliberal parties in this place, the political establishment, have backed in a strategy to make distressed mortgage holders and renters pay more. Rent and mortgages are going through the roof. The solutions are there, but the government won't pull the levers it has to address those issues. We have a full-blown housing crisis, with millions of people—renters and mortgage holders—in housing stress. But this isn't a policy failure from the establishment parties; this is a feature of the policies of the establishment parties. Those establishment parties have created this system by passing laws that benefit big corporations and the ultrawealthy, robbing an entire generation of lower- and middle-class Australians of a future.</para>
<para>Rents are rising faster than wages. People are working harder than they ever have and holding more jobs than they ever had, and they still can't get ahead. People are doing everything that is being asked of them, but they still can't make ends meet. The system, colleagues, is absolutely broken. Politics is a mess, and someone needs to clean it up. The big corporations and the ultrawealthy have got their hooks into the establishment parties in this place, but they haven't got their hooks into the Australian Greens. People understand that politics is a mess. More and more people understand that the system is not working for them. More and more people understand that the establishment parties and the political class in this country are not acting in their interests. They see billions going to nuclear submarines while people can't afford to see a doctor. They see property speculators getting tens of billions of dollars in handouts every year, which makes it impossible for people to buy their first home. They see the climate crisis and the ecological crisis getting worse but the establishment parties giving billions of dollars every year to the big fossil fuel corporations, who are making off with crisis super profits.</para>
<para>Now, we're a year away from a federal election and we in the Greens step into that campaign as the only party ready to take on the big corporations, to take on the ultrawealthy and to fight for people. We want to make price gouging and profiteering illegal. We want to end the tens of billions of dollars in tax handouts going to property investors and property speculators through negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount. We want to freeze and cap rent increases, and we want to establish a public property developer to build homes, like we used to back in the day, which can be sold and rented for prices that ordinary people can afford. We are the only party that is in here fighting for renters. We are the party of people who are locked out of housing and facing homelessness. We are the party for people who can't afford to feed their families because they're being priced gouged at the supermarket checkout. We are the party for people who can't afford to see a GP.</para>
<para>It's never been more important to stop coal and gas. We've got a government that has basically thrown its hands up and given up on protecting nature and protecting the environment. We are here to fight for the future of the Great Barrier Reef. We are here to fight for the beautiful, magnificent forests of places like Tasmania and New South Wales. We are here to fight for the rivers that are the lifeblood of our nation, and we need to be very clear-eyed about what is threatening those places. It is big corporations who are only interested in greed and profits, and it is the political class in this place—the establishment parties, the Labor Party, the Liberal Party and the National Party—that those big corporations and their corporate donors have got their hooks into. And how have they got their hooks into them? They give them millions of dollars every year in political donations.</para>
<para>The system is broken. The system is cooked. The Greens are here not just to point that out but to fight—to fight for nature, to fight for a liveable climate, to fight for people so they are able to have a fair go, afford food and groceries, pay the rent, pay their mortgage payments and go to see a GP. We are here to fight to wipe student debt. We are here to fight to put dental and mental health into Medicare. We have a bold, positive vision for the future, and we don't take political donations from the big corporations who are making off with crisis super profits while they are cooking the planet and destroying nature. That is the bold vision that the Greens will put before the Australian people at the next election.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a rare opportunity to provide some comments on the government's fiscal strategy. As senators make their contributions about the state of the budget, it will become apparent that the way you run a budget and the way you run your policy priorities is a reflection of the colour and the values of the government. If we were to go back a hundred years and look at what Alfred Deakin was saying about the Labor Party then, we could basically just repeat what Deakin said, which was that the problem with the Labor Party is that it is beholden to vested interests. That is a structural problem. The problem the Australian people have is that the government that is supposed to be governing for them is only interested in working hard for the people that support the Labor government financially and organisationally. Effectively that means that the government has spent two years running the policy of the nation and running the budget of the nation for the benefit of the rent seekers and the bloodsuckers which support its political movement.</para>
<para>In relation to the budget, I say as an old accountant—probably not always the best accountant but certainly an old accountant—there is a revenue side and an expenditure side. On the revenue side, the government has had to raise taxes, including breaking a number of promises because it has had to fund its spending, which has increased significantly in order to support its vested interests. When you strip it all back, the real problem the Australian people have is that they have a government that will never solve the problems which the people are facing, such as housing and inflation. These are things the government can't solve because of its structural impediments. These are the structural and public impediments which come from being a government for vested interests.</para>
<para>In relation to the revenue side of the budget, there was this hilarious start to the year where the government announced it was going to break its promise on the stage 3 tax cuts. It said it was going to give most people a bigger tax cut. But helpfully the Parliamentary Budget Office was able to do some work for me and was able to tell me that in the medium term the Australian people will be paying more tax, not less tax, because of this government's tax policy.</para>
<para>As I've said before, I as a parliamentarian was very surprised to have lived through this era when this parliament reversed one of the only improvements to the tax system in recent years when the parliament voted to reintroduce a tax bracket which was abolished in the last parliament. The reintroduction of that tax bracket means there will be a permanent re-insertion of bracket creep. The reason that the budget office says that for an average income for full-time employees it will rise from 25.1 per cent in 2022-23 to almost 26 per cent by 2023-34 is the reintroduction of bracket creep. So, sure, the government might be claiming that some people will get a bigger tax cut today, but in the medium term more people will be paying higher taxes because the government has reinserted tax brackets which the last parliament removed. The reason the last parliament removed that tax bracket was that it was a tax on aspiration. When you go and work an extra shift or do a second job, you are now going to be punished because of the new tax structure the government has put in place.</para>
<para>So, in reality, we have higher income taxes, but we also have higher taxes on superannuation and we also have a higher tax on franking credits. The government wanted to bank higher revenues through playing around with franking credits—$40 million. We were able to demonstrate through the legislation committee's inquiry into this bill that, in fact, that was a very strange attempt to play around with capital markets which I'm not sure the government really understands or comprehends. Certainly the minister, Stephen Jones, seemed to be quite clueless. But that is an attempt to book $40 million in higher taxes on franking credits, which the government said it would never touch.</para>
<para>The government also promised before the election that it would not play around with superannuation taxes, but the government has announced a plan to increase taxes on superannuation by almost $1 billion. The centrepiece for this plan is to introduce a tax on unrealised gain. When I was learning and working as an accounting at Ernst & Young, one core principle was that you pay tax when you have generated a profit or realised something. This policy of government would, in fact, impose, for the first time in Australian law, an unrealised gain tax. That means that, even if you haven't booked any gains, you have to pay tax. Perhaps if it's on a lumpy asset, you might be subject to a lock-in period. You might be a farmer. There are a whole lot of flies on this policy. This is the consequence of needing to raise taxes for the purpose of increasing expenditure.</para>
<para>So where has the money gone? The government has been very good at setting up major slush funds. The Housing Australia Future Fund has been given $10 billion to invest in housing. So far, it has spent $30 million and hasn't built a single house. It has, though, been able to use taxpayer funds to hire a slew of public servants, including a six- or eight-person corporate and government affairs team, so that people who work for Housing Australia can walk around this building, as lobbyists for Housing Australia, effectively, and build no houses. So we have a government that wants to increase taxes to establish funds like the Housing Australia Future Fund and the Reconstruction Fund.</para>
<para>The Reconstruction Fund is strangely named. I'm not sure what we're reconstructing from. If you look at the broader use of reconstruction in Australian history, it was widely canvassed after the Second World War that there would be policies of reconstruction in which both major parties had a say. But this Reconstruction Fund, which has become a retirement home for union officials—a bit like an industry super fund board—has been given a lot of money. We discovered during Senate estimates that it's been having sham meetings, and that, in fact, it had a number of meetings on the same day to meet its legislative obligation to have meetings. But, again, this fund, which has been given $15 billion, hasn't invested it in anything either. So there's this very strange situation where tax dollars are going to these slush funds. The funds themselves are so poorly governed that they can't spend any money, or they are simply spending money on government affairs people and corporate affairs people to go around this building and do God knows what.</para>
<para>The other piece on expenditure that is quite curious is the expansion of the Public Service in Canberra. We've seen 12,000 public servants hired at a very large cost to the budget. Of course, we need to have a reasonable number of people working in the public service to provide the services that people expect, but a massive expansion of this magnitude after we've been through COVID seems like a very strange priority. Overall, you measure the effectiveness of a fiscal strategy by where you're going in the medium term. In the medium term, although we're looking at a surplus this year, we're looking at deficits next year of $28 billion and then $42 billion and $26 billion and then $24 billion. So we're looking at over $100 billion of deficits over the forwards. It's a significant position for the Commonwealth to take after crowing about having a surplus this year. That happened because the government locked in structurally higher spending over the medium term. They're locking in higher spending to pay for these slush funds and to pay for these decisions to increase the size of the Public Service. This goes back to my governing thought about the government's fiscal policy, which is that it really is calibrated finely to try and suit the interests to which Labor is beholden—public sector unions, and then, of course, paying off their favourite fellow travellers with policy over the cycle.</para>
<para>Ultimately, the most depressing part of the fiscal debate is the lack of ambition. I am still surprised that we have wound back the only structural income tax reform that has been delivered by the last few parliaments, and now we have a position where the government has no plan to deal with bracket creep and no plan to cut taxes across the board, and has favoured this crony capitalism where you set up these massive government slush funds, put all your mates on the boards, give grants to your mates—if they ever get around to having a proper board meeting—and hire a whole lot of public servants to run around this building doing so-called government affairs. It's not a very good position for the country to be in: to have no ambition on the tax side. We know that Australians pay very high rates of income tax. If you look at the OECD data or the IMF data, you will see that people and the companies in this country have a very high burden of taxation. So I would have thought that any party of government would be wanting to develop an agenda to try and lighten the load on companies and on people, but all we've seen from this government is a rolling back of reforms of past parliaments with zero ambition. That is what is most depressing about the fiscal debate.</para>
<para>As we roll into the last year of this term, we hope that the government might awaken from its slumber. It spent two years feathering the nests of all the people who lined up—the conga line of people who want to have their pay-off for handing out things at the elections, helping out with the preselections, all the people who work for the unions. But they've paid them off now. They've done pattern bargaining, they've done 'same job, same pay' and they've got the ABCC back—well, not back in place. They've done all the stuff the super funds want. They're now trying to establish a system where the super funds own all the houses. They've got the Housing Australia Future Fund giving payments to super funds. They've got a bill in the parliament that's going to give the super funds a tax cut if they build build-to-rent properties.</para>
<para>So the government have calibrated all their policy in favour of this small group of institutions: unions, super funds and class action law firms. All the fellow travellers have been paid off for two years. So I would say that, after two years of governing for a small set of vested interests, it would be a good opportunity for the government to think about how it can solve some of the problems that are facing the Australian people. What can the government do that's actually going to move the needle on housing. How can they get some houses built? Their supply policies—the Housing Australia Future Fund and the housing targets—are a disgrace and an embarrassment. The only demand-side policy they have on housing, which is the Help to Buy Scheme, will never pass the Senate, and they've got no other ideas. Inflation is getting worse in Australia, whereas it's getting better in the United States and other economies. So I wonder, as we wind down the clock on this contribution and also on this parliamentary term later this year or next year, whether the government will spend any time thinking about the problems facing the average worker. Will the government do anything on housing? Will it do anything on inflation? Will it do anything for small business? I won't hold my breath.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just before I give the call to Senator Scarr, Senator McKim, I believe you're seeking leave to move your amendment on sheet 2660?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I do seek leave.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate is of the view that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) public money should not be used to support the new extraction and burning of coal and gas, while there is a climate crisis;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the proportion of the $566 million for Geoscience Australia to map coal and gas reserves and providing this information to coal and gas corporations for free should be removed from the budget; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the $1.5 billion equity injection to facilitate the construction of the Middle Arm Gas and Petrochemical Hub should be removed from the Contingency Reserve."</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I really do compliment my friend and colleague Senator Bragg on his contribution. The more effusive I am with my compliments to Senator Bragg the more difficult it will be for him to leave the chamber as I give my contribution. He's such a courteous individual. He can leave if he wants to, if he has other things to do, and he can watch my contribution later on ParlView, which I'm sure he'll do. I see he's taken the opportunity, as well, not that I can reflect on that.</para>
<para>One of the most terrifying things I've seen in relation to post-budget commentary in recent times is an article by Michael Read, economics correspondent for the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline>. For those listening to this debate, you're hearing the words of different politicians putting forward their own perspectives, and that's what this place does, but I want to cut through that and go to the words of the Reserve Bank of Australia. These are the professional economists whose role it is to make decisions about interest rates. When they make a decision to either keep interest rates where they are or to increase interest rates, that has consequences for every single Australian, especially those who have mortgages over their homes, so we should listen very carefully to what the Reserve Bank of Australia is saying post budget. From my perspective, that provides the Australian public with the best objective evidence as to whether the budget reflected in these appropriation bills has been successful or unsuccessful.</para>
<para>We've now received that evidence, in relation to the latest consideration of interest rates by the Reserve Bank of Australia, and it is deeply disturbing. What is especially disturbing is that the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, member for Rankin, came out after the Reserve Bank's statement by the Reserve Bank governor, Michele Bullock, who is an expert of the first order, and said: 'I don't tell the Reserve Bank of Australia governor, Michele Bullock, how to do her job, and the governor doesn't tell me how to do my job.' Let's consider that. We have the Treasurer of Australia, who's responsible for the budget and fiscal policy in this country, defending his position and saying: 'Well, the Reserve Bank of Australia governor shouldn't tell me what to do. I don't tell her what to do.' We've got the Reserve Bank of Australia raising concerns about inflation and therefore interest rates, and that's how the Treasurer responds. That's how the Treasurer responds to comments made by one of the most important people in our system of government, the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia, who leads the decision-making process on interest rate changes. It is deeply, deeply concerning that the Treasurer of Australia would make that comment: 'I don't tell RBA governor Michele Bullock how to do her job, and the governor doesn't tell me how to do my job.'</para>
<para>If you were in any organisation in any position which required close collaboration, dealing with extraordinarily complicated matters to achieve an outcome, and you had someone who has a leadership role in achieving that goal making that sort of comment—this is someone in a senior position in this country, with their hand on the lever of interest rate policy—you'd be astounded. It is deeply disturbing that we have the Treasurer of Australia making that comment. Quite a few economists have come out and said that the economy is in burnout mode. What they mean by that is that the federal Labor government has its foot on the government-spending accelerator and the Reserve Bank of Australia, at the same time, has its foot on the brake, trying to address the inflationary problem through monetary policy—higher interest rates. What do you get? You get a burnout. And the comment from our Treasurer is: 'I don't tell RBA governor Michele Bullock how to do her job.' I should say this is Michele Bullock, graduate of the London School of Economics, who's worked at the Reserve Bank of Australia for decades. The Treasurer doesn't tell her how to do her job. Well, that's great. 'And the governor doesn't tell me how to do my job.' Maybe—just maybe—the Treasurer of Australia should actually listen to what the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia is saying, because the comments of the Reserve Bank of Australia reflect what economists told us following the last budget.</para>
<para>I want to quote from some of those comments following the last budget. I quoted them when the budget was brought down. Independent economist Chris Richardson agreed that budget spending had made the RBA's juggle trickier:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My key test for the budget was that it not poke the inflationary bear. I don't think it's passed that test. I've consistently been saying for a long time that I didn't see a rate cut until the end of this year but that's starting to slip into next year.</para></quote>
<para>So many Australians are struggling in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, trying to pay those increased mortgage rates and trying to do things like put the fuel in the car, pay for groceries and pay the electricity bill, and I'm hearing from colleagues—and I've heard it again this week—that, when they attend sporting events, numbers are down in terms of children's sport. Why? It is because people are cutting back anywhere they can in terms of their discretionary spending. That's what's happening out there at the coalface.</para>
<para>Another economist said 'a lot of spending in the budget and a lot of it is not particularly targeted'. They said the government 'haven't quite hit the mark on reducing inflation'. Another economist said, 'We were left disappointed on all three fronts.' Ross Greenwood, whom people would be familiar with, said, 'This is the biggest taxing government in 23 years.' Steven Hamilton, economist, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is the most irresponsible budget in recent memory. The government set itself a simple standard: not to make the Reserve Bank's job harder. Michele Bullock—</para></quote>
<para>the Reserve Bank of Australia governor—</para>
<quote><para class="block">may just choke on her cornflakes.</para></quote>
<para>That's what they said immediately after the budget.</para>
<para>I have extracts from a transcript of an interview with the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia, who Jim Chalmers doesn't want to tell him how to do his job—maybe Michele Bullock should change careers, move into the political sphere and actually do the Treasurer's job. I'm sure she could do it much better than the current Treasurer. In an interview after the last interest rate decision of the Reserve Bank, which kept interest rates high, the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">And as I noted earlier, on average households have reduced their saving rate by more than we thought to support their spending. It's tough just to keep up with essentials—groceries, petrol, health, education, rents, insurance expenses, I could go on, they're all going up.</para></quote>
<para>But the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, doesn't want the governor to tell him how to do his job. It sounds to me like the Reserve Bank of Australia governor is right on the mark. I'll quote further:</para>
<quote><para class="block">So, what does this all mean? Well, the recent data have been mixed but, overall, they reinforced the need to remain vigilant to the upside risks to inflation.</para></quote>
<para>That's what the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said—not a politician. She also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We need a lot to go our way if we are going to bring inflation back down to the 2-3 per cent target range. The Board does need to be confident that inflation is moving sustainably toward target and it will do what is necessary to achieve that outcome.</para></quote>
<para>This is deeply concerning. Are we going to have an interest rate rise by the end of the year? This is what the governor said. Those opposite, including the Minister for Finance, tell us in this place, 'We're putting downward pressure on inflation; there's downward pressure on inflation.' The Governor of the Reserve Bank, the governor who Jim Chalmers does not want to tell him how to do his job, says—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I ask you to please refer to people in the other place by their correct titles—that is, the Treasurer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thought I did say that. This is what the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">So, yes the Board did discuss the case for increasing interest rates at this meeting. In the end it decided that its current strategy of staying the course and trying to bring inflation back down by bringing supply back to demand was the right way to go.</para></quote>
<para>I repeat that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">So, yes the Board did discuss the case for increasing interest rates …</para></quote>
<para>So—although all the economists said we needed a budget which would put downward pressure on inflation—at the first meeting of the Reserve Bank of Australia following the budget, the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said the board had actually considered increasing interest rates, which would have the impact of increasing mortgage repayments for thousands and thousands—millions—of Australians. This happened after the budget. The next meeting of the Reserve Bank of Australia is in August, so Australians are going to have to grapple with the current interest rate crisis until at least August. We know that at the meeting in June the Reserve Bank of Australia wasn't considering cutting interest rates; it was actually considering putting them up. That is deeply concerning for every Australian with a mortgage and for first-home buyers who are trying to enter the property market in extremely difficult circumstances.</para>
<para>John Rolfe from the <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph</inline> said to the governor:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You mentioned that the case for a rate increase was discussed by the Board. Was a case for a cut considered and is the likelihood of an increase in rates increasing?</para></quote>
<para>The Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">No, the case for a cut was not considered.</para></quote>
<para>But an increase was. The governor went on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I can't tell them—</para></quote>
<para>that's the Australian people—</para>
<quote><para class="block">when they can expect some relief—</para></quote>
<para>in the form of interest rate cuts. 'I can't tell them,' said the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia. So, to all those millions of Australians who, in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis, are trying to pay their mortgages and make the interest payments for their family homes, the Reserve Bank governor, honestly, is saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I can't tell them when they can expect some relief. What I can say to them is I am very conscious that the high interest rates are hurting particular sectors of the economy more than others. The interest rate is the only tool we have and it's a blunt instrument. I do understand it affects different people in different ways. It is our only tool to bring inflation down and, again, what I would say and I've said it a number of times before, is that interest rates are part of what's hurting them but inflation is really hurting them. Businesses are feeling it because all of their input costs are going up and if they can't pass it on that's obviously hurting them. Consumers are feeling it when they go to the supermarkets. So, again, I can't tell them when we will bring interest rates down, but I can say that my laser focus and the Board's laser focus is bringing inflation down and that will help them. That will really help them.</para></quote>
<para>That's the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia. It seems to me the governor is extremely well connected with the cost-of-living crisis which all Australians are going through.</para>
<para>I've read you substantial quotes from the transcript of the media conference given by the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia. In response to that media conference, the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers MP, member for Rankin, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I don't tell [RBA governor Michele Bullock] how to do her job, and the governor doesn't tell me how to do my job.</para></quote>
<para>It doesn't give you much confidence, does it? It doesn't give you much confidence that the Labor government has what it takes to deal with the inflation problem. They've got their foot on the accelerator in terms of government spending—an extra $315 billion of government spending since this government came to power. At the same time, the Reserve Bank of Australia is doing its best to bring down inflation. But at their last meeting, the meeting immediately following the bringing down of the budget, they didn't consider a cut to interest rates but only an increase to interest rates. These are not the words of a politician but the words of the Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia. That, from my perspective, provides objective evidence to every single Australian that the Labor government has the wrong fiscal policy for these current times.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, to say that this is a budget of missed opportunities would I think be an extreme understatement, which is unfortunate not only the people of Tasmania that both you and I, Acting Deputy President Polley, represent but also for Australia's environment. As the shadow minister for the environment, I get the opportunity to have a very close look at what this government is doing—or what they at least say they're doing—in relation to environmental policy. And not only is it a budget of missed opportunities, as I said, but it's far worse.</para>
<para>Before the last election and not long afterwards, we were promised that this government would bring in what they call the Nature Positive Plan—that we would have laws that would be better for the environment and better for business. And it was referenced in this budget—not because things are on track, not because things are going well, not because the policies and promises that were made by the government in the lead-up to the election were honoured but because they have not been. Part of that promise around the Nature Positive Plan relates to the fact that those laws that were supposed to be better for the environment and better for business—a great little catchphrase—would be in parliament by the end of last year.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cadell</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How did that go?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cadell asks, 'How did that go?' Well, I can tell you. Given that the Albanese Labor government has had to budget further funding to continue consulting on these proposed laws to replace the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act, which are Australia's federal environmental approval laws, it's not going well—and there is no end in sight. In fact, the Prime Minister and his environment minister, Tanya Plibersek, have both conceded that environmental approval laws will not be introduced into this parliament by the end of this parliamentary term—that is, before the next election. That is an egregious breach of faith with the voters of Australia. Instead, though, we do get more money being ploughed into this continued consultation process, a further $5.3 million to progress legislation reforms that, I add, we were promised would be in place, passed through this parliament, enacted, better for business, better for the environment. But no, we don't have that; we have further funding being spent on that.</para>
<para>Further, the budget doesn't actually do a thing to assist the environment. There is no new money being invested in on-ground environmental activity—the things that make a difference: repairing damage to the environment and assisting community groups to remedy problems in their local environment. There are amazing volunteer groups right across this country that know their country best, know what needs to happen, know how to unclog a river of debris, know how to fix a riparian zone and know how to rehabilitate landscapes. There is not a dollar for that sort of thing, but there are hundreds of millions of dollars for more bureaucrats in the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water.</para>
<para>Would you believe that, since the election, 2,300 bureaucrats have been employed in that department in Canberra? I'm sure every one of those bureaucrats are very well meaning and want to protect our environment, and they want to work with stakeholders to ensure that we have a resilient environment in this country moving forward. But I don't think they're going to be able to achieve a lot from their carpeted, air-conditioned offices here in Canberra for the far-flung corners of our country that need hundreds of millions of dollars in investments to achieve the needed outcomes. In addition to those 2,300 new bureaucrats, $96 million is being spent on speeding up approvals under our federal environmental approval laws, which I've already referenced.</para>
<para>So, we've got broken laws. The government promised to fix them. They haven't, but they've got to spend nearly $100 million on top of employing 2,300 bureaucrats to speed up approvals. I'm not much of a gambling man, but I would be willing to wager that nearly $100 million will not make one iota of difference in the time taken to approve or reject projects under our environmental approval legislation in this country. It is a waste of money to plough it in this way, which doesn't tangibly improve outcomes for our environment and doesn't advance the agenda of this government the way we were promised it would.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, while they're pouring this money into their Canberra focused approach to environmental policy and law reform by employing an extra 2,300 bureaucrats and putting another $100 million into speeding up reforms—why that is needed I do not know—the Australian Institute of Marine Science had almost $36 million wiped from its annual appropriations and nearly $85 million taken out of its total net resourcing. The Australian Institute of Marine Science is the government funded entity that looks after the Great Barrier Reef and surrounding areas. They are the ones that do our world-leading science on that very, very important, valuable and fragile environment. Why is this government, which talks a big game on being committed to the reef, reef health and the community and the economy sustained by the reef, taking money away from on-ground action outside of Canberra up near the reef? AIMS is based in Townsville. Why is it having those reductions? There has been $36 million wiped out in one year and there's been a total net resourcing reduction of $85 million. That doesn't make sense to me. The rhetoric of this government is all about protecting the reef, improving reef health and castigating the former government for its terrible record. Now it's taking money away from this world-leading agency. It just doesn't make sense. But I guess they have to get the money to pay for these extra bureaucrats in Canberra from somewhere. They may as well go to Townsville and take it out of there!</para>
<para>Why don't we go to the Bureau of Meteorology? It's an important agency certainly as far as this government seems to be concerned. They say that they're climate champions and that climate science is exceptionally important, but the Bureau of Meteorology is having more than $82 million cut from its annual appropriations. That's $82 million being cut from our government funded national weather agency. I don't know how this works. Why are we taking money out of an agency charged with assisting the Australian community understand the weather and what it means and with long-term forecasting and predictions to help farmers make decisions about how they stock or destock their farms, what crops they plant and whether they need to plan to irrigate in a certain season or not? There have been terrible failures on the part of this agency around some of those long-term forecasts, so why, then, is this government off the back of that, instead of investing more in frontline meteorological activity and in the Bureau of Meteorology in totality, taking money out? I do not get that approach. Again, it probably speaks to this government's priorities. It's big on rhetoric, but when it comes to on-ground action and supporting frontline science that actually makes a difference to our country it's saying: 'We've got to find the funding to employ these extra 2,300 bureaucrats in Canberra somewhere; we may as well take it out of the Bureau of Meteorology. Why not?'</para>
<para>But there was a winner in the budget under this Labor government. It was one that I did not expect. That was the Environmental Defenders Office. It was an election promise honoured by this government. I have to give them credit for that. They said they would, and they have. They provided at the time of the election about $8.3 million over the next three years for the Environmental Defenders Office. This organisation, some might recall, was castigated in no uncertain terms by a Federal Court judge, Natalie Charlesworth. She pointed out that this organisation, funded by the Albanese Labor government, had confected evidence, coached witnesses and manipulated facts to suit a particular case they were bringing against the Santos Barossa project in northern Australia. That Federal Court judge did not mince her words. So egregious was their conduct that the federal environment minister, Tanya Plibersek, ordered her department secretary, Mr Fredericks, to review the funding of that organisation. We don't know what was in that review. We don't know what was asked for. We do know that the review apparently found, 'There's nothing to see here.' So, on the one hand, you have a Federal Court judge saying: 'This is terrible. This government needs to check its actions.' Of the other hand, you have a government funding them and a review saying, 'There's nothing to see here.' Funnily enough, before the review had even finished coming off the printer, this government had in these budget papers committed to ongoing funding for this organisation.</para>
<para>I might remind everyone that it's the Environmental Defenders Office, funded by this Labor government, that has hung the axe over the Tasmanian salmon industry. More than 400 jobs in the town of Strahan on the West Coast of Tasmania are uncertain today because this government funds an organisation that seeks to unpick the approvals that that industry operates under. It is that organisation that is funded by, in honouring a promise, this Labor government. Again, it goes to priorities.</para>
<para>While we're on Tasmania, I think it is important to focus on some of the things that weren't in the budget for Tasmania. There was, frankly, no funding for infrastructure around things like the South East Irrigation Scheme. I think that's a real failure. We've led the way when it comes to converting dry, unproductive land into productive farm country. The fact that there wasn't a dollar in there for projects like the South East Irrigation Scheme, to enable farmers to buy in and progress their projects, was a real lost opportunity. Roads funding shifted from a Liberal electorate to a Labor electorate—from Braddon to Lyons. I'm sure Mr Mitchell, the member for Lyons, is very happy with his Lyell Highway funding, but the people of Braddon are not happy that the funding was taken from the Bass Highway program to fund that.</para>
<para>Then, of course, Labor have stuck to their promise of funding for a Hobart waterfront stadium, but, sadly, this Labor government has refused to protect that funding when it comes to GST revenue. This government, while promising to fund a stadium on Hobart's waterfront—$240 million—has said: 'You know what, Tassie? We are not going to exempt that from GST calculations, and therefore you're going to have to pay for the whole lot.' What's funny, though—and this is what really makes my blood boil—is that the Treasurer of Australia, Jim Chalmers, has exempted a stadium in his own electorate from GST calculations. But, when asked by the Tasmanian members and senators who signed the letter, he said, 'No, we will not.' Of course, there was not a single Labor senator or member from Tasmania that signed that letter. There's still space on that letter. It's still sitting on my desk, and I invite any Tasmanian senator or member from the Labor Party who wants to sign it to sign it, because it's the right thing to do by our state. Sporting infrastructure is a great thing, and, of course, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the Queensland electorate that Dr Chalmers, the Treasurer of Australia, represents, which is getting a stadium, is worthy of receiving a GST exemption—his stadium in his electorate—then I would argue that Tasmania, a smaller state, a smaller jurisdiction, with a smaller capacity to raise its own revenue, certainly would be worthy of receiving a GST exemption on this funding.</para>
<para>To date, we've heard nothing out of the Tasmanian Labor members and senators, except for Mr Mitchell, who I heard on radio defending the Treasurer's decision to not grant this exemption and acting like Canberra's man in Lyons, rather than Lyons's man in Canberra. He was defending the indefensible, saying: 'It's okay. We've just got to live with it. It's everyone else's fault.' The fact is that if we consider every Tasmanian member or senator, whether they are Labor, Liberal, Green—and I acknowledge Senator Whish-Wilson, who signed that letter, and good on him for doing so—or Independent, everyone signed that letter except the Labor members and senators. As I say, there's still time. This budget has a big hole, ready to be filled by a GST exemption for the stadium in Tasmania. I look forward to your support on that.</para>
<para>Of course, there is no funding for the redevelopment of LGH, the Launceston General Hospital, a very important project—something absolutely essential for the health of northern Tasmanians in the electorate of Bass, parts of Braddon, and indeed, northern Lyons as well. It is critical infrastructure, but guess what: there is not a dollar in the budget for that. For further redevelopments at the Royal Hobart Hospital down south, which services a good portion of our population, there is not a dollar.</para>
<para>So really you do have to wonder what the Tasmanian Labor contingent here in Canberra are doing. I've just listed a whole heap of failures, including the most egregious one, which is this failure to exempt from GST $240 million for a waterfront stadium in Hobart—funding that would otherwise go to support our health system, our education system and critical infrastructure. It's an opportunity missed. At the end of the day, the only people that lose out here are not the politicians but the people that need that funding for the essential services it would provide.</para>
<para>So I say this budget is a failure when it comes to the environment portfolio, and certainly it's a failure when it comes to the people of Tasmania, where we have been dudded and we now know how this government really feels about Tasmanian men, women and children, including salmon workers, right across the state. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me begin by first congratulating my colleague Senator Duniam for his fine words. He highlighted how the Labor members of this place and the other place from Tasmania have done little to stand up for their own state. I'm going to tell a similar story of my home state of Western Australia, where the most egregious part of this budget is, from my perspective as a Western Australian who comes from a farming background, the ban of the live export trade from Western Australia.</para>
<para>This is an issue that, indirectly, has huge flow-on negatives, but, directly, the negatives affect Western Australia and Western Australia alone. This is an industry that is 100 per cent Western Australian. It comes out of mostly one electorate. About 80 per cent of live export sheep come out of the electorate of O'Connor, which is the large electorate that covers the southern Wheatbelt. It is the electorate that is represented by my good friend and colleague Rick Wilson, the member for O'Connor, who has done a power of work highlighting the negative impacts of this government's ban on his local communities. But it's not just Rick Wilson, it's not just me and it's not just some of my colleagues in this place that have spoken out; the community has spoken out.</para>
<para>The community has risen up in a grassroots movement that, a few weeks ago, saw a convoy—in fact, four convoys—go through the city of Perth. There was a north convoy, a south convoy, an east convoy and a port convoy, and all converged on the transport yard at Muchea, protesting the government's ban. Then, just a few days ago, in conjunction with the rushed and, quite frankly, disgracefully conducted House of Representatives inquiry into the Export Control Amendment (Ending Live Sheep Exports by Sea) Bill 2024—where two hearings were held in a week, with no time even for most of the submissions to be considered by the committee—we saw the community turn out in big numbers. There were 2,000 people from across Western Australia. But it wasn't just farmers at that rally. It wasn't 2,000 farmers, and it wasn't 2,000 farmers, shearers, truckies, the local IGA and the petrol station. There were plenty of people—and I know because I was there and I walked through the crowd and talked to hundreds of those people. Many, many people had come up from Perth to show their support for Western Australian regional communities because they are the ones who will be hit hardest. They are the ones that will suffer the brunt of this attack on Western Australia and the Western Australian agricultural sector.</para>
<para>Those opposite will say, 'Oh, no, there's an adjustment package. It'll all be okay.' But then why has every agricultural organisation, not just in WA but right across Australia, described this as a red line in the sand? It's because they know that the radical activist groups that are behind the campaign to end the live export of sheep will not stop there. They do not agree with feedlots, with the live export of cattle, with practices in abattoirs, with shearing, with mulesing or with the use of glyphosate for cropping. They basically don't agree with agriculture. They don't agree with farming. They don't agree with Australia playing a role in feeding the world. You've got to remember that Australia produces three times as much food as we consume. We are an exporting nation not just when it comes to minerals, though we do that very well—we also export food. We feed the world. We feed twice our population overseas through the sale of high-quality food products, and that includes live exports.</para>
<para>The really sad thing about this is that industry has actually won all the debates in this space. There was a moral question asked. People asked, 'Is this industry being managed in an ethical way? Are animal welfare standards being maintained to a high level?' But the absolutely clear and overwhelming evidence is: yes, they are. We not only have the best animal welfare standards in the world when it comes to our live export industry but we actually export those standards. We say to countries that want to buy our live animals, 'Yes, you can come, you can buy them, but if you do so then you have to live up to our standards of animal welfare and how those animals are managed, how they are moved and how they are treated in slaughter.' Not only do we export live animals but we also export animal welfare standards to the rest of the world.</para>
<para>A little over a decade ago, Saudi Arabia, who were one of our biggest markets, said: 'No. We are not going to do what you ask us to do. We're not going to do what you tell us to do through your export standards. We'll go elsewhere.' Saudi Arabia today—still the largest importer of live animals, I believe, in the world, importing some four million head of livestock per annum, have reconsidered. They've said: 'Wait a sec; maybe we should actually improve our animal handling and welfare standards. Maybe we should have a look again at the Australian system and re-enter that market—bring our abattoirs and our animal handling systems up to their requirements and be able to purchase from Australia once again.' That is what they have done. They have signed on to meet the requirements of our animal supply system. They have signed on to meet our ESCAS requirements. They have said, 'We will meet the highest animal welfare standards in the world because we know Australia produces high-quality animals that meet the requirements of our market.' That is what we see—when Australia is involved in this industry, we export not just live animals but also our animal welfare standards. So we've won the moral argument. We've won that ethical argument. The industry has won it.</para>
<para>What about the scientific argument on how those animals go aboard ship? It is very clear now that with the changes made—not just over the last few years but, in fact, over decades—mortality rates have fallen to a level where they are actually better than on-farm. One of the vets at the inquiry that the House of Representatives undertook described ships as 'floating feedlots' because those ships are designed to take animals and increase their weight. Every farmer will tell you—every livestock farmer in Australia will tell you—if an animal is putting on weight, it is not under stress. Animals do not put on weight if they're uncomfortable or if they're under stress. Those ships now have mortality rates lower than in a paddock.</para>
<para>We've won the scientific argument. We've won the community argument and the social argument. This industry being banned will destroy regional communities because those communities are based on an industry that supplies jobs. We heard Darren Spencer, the head of the shearing association, talk about his role and his business' role in one country town. He talked about the $100,000 he spent at the local IGA, the $50,000 he spent at the local petrol station. He talked about the families he employed in town, the kids who went to school because of his business and the doctor that was still in town because those families were still in town. This government's ban will rip the heart out of those communities because they rely on this industry as a key part of—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time allotted for the debate has expired. You will be in continuation. I will now go to two-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>14</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Antisemitism</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The recent rise of antisemitism on university campuses masquerading as activism is disgraceful. During Senate estimates, we heard from representatives from the Australian National University. ANU—which is home to 6½ thousand students, many of whom who are Jewish and Israeli—has become a site of a pro-Palestinian and anti-Jewish encampment over the past two months. Imagine what it's like for a Jewish student to stumble across a short clip online of antisemitic protests from the safety of their home. It may be upsetting to see, but at least they have the option of turning off their device. Now picture stepping outside your front door to find the protestors camped out on your front lawn and refusing to leave for two months. This is the reality that Jewish students face at ANU: navigating through antisemitism every day, even before their morning classes.</para>
<para>ANU's Vice-Chancellor Professor Bell stated that campus protests must be peaceful and respectful. Jewish students at ANU have reported Nazi salutes, Hitler impersonations and hateful antisemitic comments. Such behaviour is far from peaceful and respectful. These students are 18, 19 and 20 years of age. They're kids. They shouldn't have to deal with this kind of horrible racial and religious rhetoric. ANU has shown it can relocate protests for safety reasons, yet it seems that the social, emotional and mental health safety and wellbeing of Jewish students are not even being considered.</para>
<para>The right to protest should never be a cover for intimidation, racism or religious discrimination. Being bombarded with hateful imagery and feeling like an outcast at home is neither peaceful nor respectful. It is not the Australian way.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>First Nations: Early Childhood Education and Care</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While most of us take access to early childhood education and care for granted, sadly, this is not the case for many Indigenous children and families. As a former early childhood educator, I'm very aware of the disadvantages facing Indigenous families when it comes to accessing vital education and care services in their early years. We know that, for First Nations children, there is a gap in their early childhood education and care, and we know that this often translates to long-term disadvantages when it comes to health, education and employment outcomes.</para>
<para>I am, however, very happy to report that we're now seeing some real progress in this area through the Connected Beginnings program. Connected Beginnings is a grant based Closing the Gap initiative, aimed at providing a range of services that wrap around Indigenous children in those vital first five years of life. This community owned and led program empowers First Nations people to have a say in how early childhood activities are delivered to their people in their own places and on their country in a culturally specific way that is tailored to break down barriers and foster positive engagement with the scheme.</para>
<para>The success of Connected Beginnings speaks for itself. So far we've seen a 10 per cent increase in early childhood education participation for First Nations children accessing Connected Beginnings throughout Australia. There are currently 41 Connected Beginnings sites across Australia, and we've committed to expanding to 50 sites by the end of this year, including three that are currently being rolled out in my home state of Tasmania in Burnie, George Town and Bridgewater-Gagebrook. The long-term benefits to participants in this program cannot be underestimated, and I celebrate this initiative in making real inroads into closing the gap for our Indigenous communities.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Donations to Political Parties</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The South Australian Labor government just announced its intention to ban donations to political parties. The Greens have long called for comprehensive donations reform to get the influence of big money out of politics: donations caps, real-time disclosure and a ban on dirty donations from dirty vested interests who buy political outcomes, like stopping the coal and gas companies from running this place behind closed doors because of the donations they make. We welcome the SA government's move, although we do need to ensure that any reform doesn't ignore third parties or stifle smaller parties and Independents. After all, diversity is vital for a healthy democracy.</para>
<para>Prime Minister Albanese made big promises about transparency and accountability before coming into government, but we have been waiting for over two years and are yet to see or be consulted on any electoral reform legislation from this government. Earlier this year, I joined with crossbench colleagues to introduce an electoral reform bill that would improve transparency, introduce truth in political advertising, reduce the influence of lobbyists, level the playing field and increase territory representation. The Greens remain ready to work walk towards genuine electoral reform.</para>
<para>People are desperate for a parliament that is more diverse and more representative. They don't want the Coles and Woolies of politics anymore, and they're sick of not being able to tell the difference between the two major parties on most of the issues that matter to them. This is why support for the big parties is falling, and this is exactly why the government now has a choice. Will the Labor Party do a dirty deal with the Liberal Party so that you can both keep the donations rolling in from coal and gas? Or will this government commit to genuine electoral reforms that actually improve democratic outcomes? We all can't wait to see the answer to that.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef Aquarium</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Every regional town and city in Australia has a landmark, whether man-made or created by nature, which defines it, which locals will insist visitors take a look at, which is the jewel in the crown. Sometimes, they're a huge investment; other times, they're a blessing, but they're always such pride and joy that whatever maintenance is required throughout their lifetime will be an unwritten understanding and priority for the town. In Townsville, one such landmark is the Great Barrier Reef Aquarium.</para>
<para>In 1985, 100,000 Townsville investors contributed $1 million to kickstart this wonder. It was built in 1987, and it opens its doors to over 100,000 local, national and international visitors each year. Middle-aged Townsvilleans marvelled at the majesty of marine life at face level when they were tiny tots. They have since taken their children and grandchildren to thrill the excitement while learning about our unique Barrier Reef ecosystem. World-renowned marine scientists value the aquarium as a global showcase in reef protection and marine science.</para>
<para>The employment and economic contribution of the aquarium to Townsville has outweighed any other project in the community. But this is all at risk—the pride, the joy, the science, the education, the economic powerhouse. The aquarium is at risk of permanent closure because of the Albanese Labor government's failure to include $100 million in funding in its last budget last month. The government's failure to rebuild the aquarium leaves an enormous gap in the Townsville landscape, the North Queensland economy and marine science education. As shadow minister for Northern Australia, I applaud the Townsville community for coming together and fighting to reopen the doors of the Great Barrier Reef Aquarium, which is parochially our landmark but also the man-made epicentre of the Great Barrier Reef.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day of Play</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Every single child deserves every opportunity to reach their greatest potential, and one of the most foundational aspects of raising healthy children is play. That's why, on 11 June, we celebrated the International Day of Play and why the Parliamentary Friends of Early Childhood hosted an event to celebrate it.</para>
<para>The government has a crucial role in supporting every child's right to play, from access to playgroups, local community playgrounds and support for families to maternal health and so much more. Play is not optional but essential for healthy human development. It helps build healthy, connected communities, and, as a parent, it is absolutely magic to witness. Giving children free rein to direct their own play and see the curiosity, awe and wonder on their faces as they learn new skills and find their capacity to challenge themselves is one of the greatest joys of parenting—indeed, it's where the magic happens.</para>
<para>Encouraging play can help children build strong social relationships and learn fundamental skills like sharing, taking turns, conflict resolution, appreciating different perspectives, leadership, equality, inclusivity, empathy and so much more. The Albanese Labor government has developed the Early Years Strategy, with play listed as one of the eight outcomes. It will continue to work towards an Australia where children are provided with nothing less than every opportunity to reach their full potential, including through play. I'd like to acknowledge and thank the hardworking team at Play Australia for their advocacy in this space. CEO Robyn Monro Miller has been a dedicated voice speaking on behalf of Australian children and their fundamental right to self-guided play. Indeed she was critical in expanding my understanding of the importance of self-guided and independent play. I've committed this month to parking my parental anxiety a bit more in the spirit of facilitating free and adventurous play and I encourage all families in the spirit of this day to foster a little more play in their lives.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's tax time again, and I am glad that those rejigged stage 3 tax cuts will finally start kicking in and giving some relief to low- and middle-income Australian families—but only just, I can assure you. I wonder if these families know that at least 100 Australians who earnt over $1 million in 2021-22 paid no tax at all. Analysis of the data by the Australia Institute and the ABC shows this cohort of rich taxpayers earnt on average $3.8 million each. This group of non-taxpaying high earners claimed deductions of $200,000 on average for managing their own tax affairs. Isn't that just disgusting? During COVID, the rich got a lot richer and the low-income Australians got a hell of a lot poorer. We like to think of ourselves as the land of the fair go, but what is fair about the richest Australians paying the least amount of tax in this country?</para>
<para>I've spent a lot of time on the ground in the last few weeks talking to Tasmanian families and I can tell you, my God, they are doing it tough. Tasmanian mums and dads are skipping meals to feed their kids, seniors are skipping meds because they can't afford them—they've already gone over their quota—and there are nearly 5,000 families on the housing waiting list in Tasmania alone. Is this the land of the fair go? Is it? Is this who we are? This government came to power promising to make Australia a fairer place. Of the three million people living in poverty in Australia right now 750,000 are children and 1.2 million are under the age of 24. UNICEF and ACOSS and many other organisations agree that the gap between the rich and the poor in Australia is only getting wider. The Labor Party likes to say they are the party that believes that there should be a level playing field for everyone, a fair go for all, but what are they really doing to close these tax loopholes? When will the Labor Party stop giving the rich Australians a leg up and start giving those who need it a fair go?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Discrimination</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was shocked and saddened to hear of a shocking incident just last week where a Tibetan community leader in Perth was assaulted—punched in the chest—after attempting to fly the Tibetan flag over the Great Eastern Highway in Perth. This is unacceptable behaviour in any context but especially so in this case considering this man, a Tibetan Australian, came to our country fleeing political persecution abroad, persecution that saw him imprisoned for no less than four years and subjected to torture and bashings. I must begin by wishing the victim, a person I know through my work with WA's multicultural communities and with the Parliamentary Friends of Tibet, a full and speedy recovery. I condemn this incident, as I know many in my home state of Western Australia will, whether they are Tibetan or otherwise.</para>
<para>Any person who comes to Australia seeking safety and liberty should be confident they'll have it instead of being met with violence and intimidation. I know that all of us in this place are united in support for the preservation of every Australian's right to express their political views in peace and security. I also know that in this place we stand united with the cause of Tibetan people in exile and in Tibet. Regardless of where they sit on the political spectrum or what their views are, every citizen in Australia should be free and safe to speak their mind and engage in the political process—provided they remain peaceful and respectful, because we have seen protests elsewhere in Australia in recent months that regrettably have not been. Finally, to Western Australian and Australian Tibetans alike: know that you are welcome and supported here and a valued part of the wider Australian community.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bridge Hotel Forth</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Within my duty electorate of Braddon is the picturesque town of Forth. Forth has a population of just 738 residents, and in the heart of the town stands the Bridge Hotel. The Bridge Hotel was built in 1872 and is one of the longest continually running establishments in Tasmania. Over the years 33 publicans have run the establishment, with the current owners, Trent and Tim, turning the Forth pub into a spot where all Australia's biggest artists want to come to perform. In a year we have seen some of the biggest festivals, like Splendour in the Grass and Grovin the Moo, are taking a break, and some capital cities are also taking a hit. Forth is busting the trend by selling out shows within a few hours of tickets being released. People are coming from all over Australia for the gigs at the Forth pub.</para>
<para>The Forth pub is just across the road from the beautiful Forth River, and just over the river, on the banks, is the footy ground where they have free camping. There aren't too many places in Australia where you can see some of the biggest names, such as the Whitlams, Peking Duk and the Jungle Giants, and camp right across the road for free. I want to take this time to congratulate Trent and Tim for hosting some of the biggest names in Australian music and for keeping the live music industry alive, which we do really well in Tasmania, particularly in the north-west, where we also have other venues that promote live music. Again, I congratulate Trent and Tim for hosting some of the biggest names in Australian music and keeping the industry alive.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I recently joined dozens of peaceful activists and forest defenders on a canoe and kayak flotilla on the Arthur River. We gathered together to protest the destruction of coupe FR002A. That coupe sits right at the junction of the Frankland and Arthur rivers in north-west Tasmania, in the heart of takayna / Tarkine. That coupe is being logged by the Tasmanian Liberal government, with support from the federal Labor government.</para>
<para>This place is a forest and river wonderland. It is peaceful and it is beautiful. It's worth defending and protecting for its ancient trees, for all the creatures that make that place their home, for the massive amounts of carbon in its forests and in its soils, and for the stories of the Aboriginal people who have had stewardship of that place since their time began. It's home to threatened species, like the azure kingfisher and the masked owl. We know the endangered masked owl is there, because its call has been recorded over a hundred times and, very recently, it was photographed in that very coupe by inspirational Tasmanian conservationist Rob Blakers.</para>
<para>I want to give a massive shout-out and a heartfelt thanks to the activists, the forest defenders, who have rallied to protect that place, many of whom have been arrested protecting that place. Thank you for your dedication. You all stand on the right side of history. This place should be protected, not destroyed by logging. It's time to end native forest logging, there in Tasmania and right around Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There has been a lot of talk about the cost of energy over the last couple of weeks, but the key to reducing bills is household electrification—rooftop solar, batteries, electric appliances and EVs. Successive Australian governments have turned rooftop solar into a global success story. With 3.7 million households having already installed rooftop solar, Australia boasts the highest per capita installation of household solar in the world.</para>
<para>Rooftop solar now produces 11 per cent of the National Electricity Market's demand, surpassing black coal as the largest fuel type by generation capacity, and the economic benefits of household electrification are huge. Households that adopt rooftop solar see their energy bills reduced by up to 57 per cent, translating to annual savings of up to $1,350 per household. Transitioning from gas to electric appliances also presents a significant opportunity for savings. Electric appliances are two to six times more efficient than their gas counterparts, resulting in substantial reductions in energy bills. The average household in cooler Australian climates can save 1,200 bucks annually by replacing gas appliances with efficient electric alternatives. Households could be saving $1.2 billion per year if they changed their gas appliances to electric appliances. If the government is serious about reducing energy bills, it will work to promote household electrification, particularly for low-income households, renters and apartment owners. They find it most difficult to transition but will benefit the most. There's an opportunity right now to get going with this.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Mountford Berries, Pacific Australia Labour Mobility Scheme</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Next time you're at the supermarket picking up a punnet of berries, look at the label. If they're Driscoll's, it's quite likely they are from a farm in northern Tasmania. I was pleased to have the opportunity to visit the Mountford Berries farm near Longford with my colleague Senator Jane Hume during her recent trip to Tasmania. After initially raising livestock, the Mackinnon family pivoted to horticulture 10 years ago, and the family is now one of the biggest Tasmanian suppliers in the berry category across Australia. Hugh, his son, Roly, and his daughter-in-law, Gemma, grow some of the freshest, sweetest strawberries and raspberries in the country and are looking at new berry categories to add to their rotation.</para>
<para>Mountford Berries are a great success story that has been assisted, especially during the pandemic years, by access to seasonal workers through the Pacific Australia Labour Mobility scheme, the PALM scheme. They are a PALM Scheme success story because they have made the system work for them. The Mackinnon family have built on-farm accommodation for their workers, and they take responsibility for them while employing them on their farm. They also work cooperatively with other farms to maximise opportunities for their workers.</para>
<para>During our visit, Hugh highlighted the many cost-of-living pressures impacting the seasonal workforce, including fluctuating foreign exchange rates and the increasing cost of food, accommodation, transportation and airfares, as well as a tax rate of 15 per cent on every dollar they earn. While Mountford Berries continue to utilise PALM scheme workers, there are fears that many agribusinesses are turning away from the scheme. New data from the National Farmers Federation has shown an 11 per cent drop in the number of PALM scheme workers employed in Australia. Farmers and labour-hire companies are turning away from the scheme because of the high demands of regulation and compliance. With the Albanese Labor government adding red tape and extra regulatory compliance to the scheme, it's being shunned by the very industry it was set up to support, and Tasmania's agricultural industry may well suffer as a result.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The housing and rent crisis is a national tragedy. In Australia, one of the richest countries in the world for resources, we have working families homeless, sleeping in their cars or under bridges. In August 2020, the national average rent was $437 a week. It's now $627, an increase of 40 per cent in just a few years. The national rental vacancy rate is just one per cent—actually slightly under that—far below the three per cent rate that's considered a healthy market. House prices are out of control. In 1987, the average house cost 2.8 times the average income. Today, a house costs 9.7 times the average income. This is why there are hardworking Australians sleeping on the street—families on the street. People under 30 have given up hope of ever owning a home, yet we oldies are meant to hand our young people a better life than we had.</para>
<para>One Nation promises to fix this housing crisis for all Australians. We will make the tough decisions that the Liberal and Labor uniparty won't. Two point eight million temporary visa holders are in the country today, up from 2.3 million pre COVID. That's an additional 200,000 homes needed for these new arrivals. While Australians can't afford roofs over their heads, we need some of these people on visas to leave. An Australian can't buy a house in China, yet foreign investors can buy both new and existing houses here. One Nation would ban all foreign ownership of residential housing. Australians must come first. We would allow people to use some superannuation to invest in their homes. After all, it's your money. We will ditch Labor's facade, its pathetic, bureaucratic Housing Australia programs. Instead, we'll use the same funds to create cheap 30-year mortgages fixed at five per cent interest to get Australians into homes.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor and the Liberals are both climate wreckers. How many more bushfires, floods and heatwaves must the world suffer? How much more loss of wildlife, damage to our ecosystems and destruction of sacred sites must happen before the government starts to give a damn? It's clear that Labor has no interest and remains at the behest of companies like Santos, Rio Tinto and BHP. With Labor pushing their Future Made in Australia policy and Future Gas Strategy, we can forget about tackling the climate crisis or meeting any targets whatsoever. And where do I even begin with Peter Dutton and the coalition, a completely out-of-touch party living in a parallel universe where their response to the climate crisis is to pursue a dangerous nuclear fantasy which should never, under any circumstance, become a reality?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So it's nuclear or more coal and gas—two terrible options being brought to you by the Liberals and Labor. What a complete disaster! What an absolute slap in the face to the scientists who have been sounding the alarm for decades! What an absolute slap in the face to First Nations people who have preserved and cared for country for tens of thousands of years! What an absolute slap in the face for people in the Pacific and the global south, who, despite contributing the least to global emissions, will be the most harmed by the climate crisis!</para>
<para>It's clear that voters who care about the climate crisis have only one option: the Greens. We are the only party that is committed to clean renewables, an end to coal and gas, and climate justice—no nuclear, no coal, no gas.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will ask senators to pay courtesy and give senators the respect of being heard in silence.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Yarkuwa Indigenous Knowledge Centre, Taxation</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Yarkuwa Indigenous Knowledge Centre, located in the beautiful town of Deniliquin in my duty seat of Farrer. Last week I stopped by to talk to David Crew and his team of Indigenous rangers and educators about the important work they do in preserving the connection to country in south-west New South Wales. During our conversation, David gifted me a series of five small books. Each read-aloud book will teach young children their Wamba Wamba language. The Wamba Wamba language is one of over 500 Indigenous languages spoken throughout Australia. Primarily, this one occurs in the south-west of New South Wales and north-west of Victoria, through the beautiful Murray region.</para>
<para>The Yarkuwa Indigenous Knowledge Centre, in collaboration with the Aboriginal Languages Trust of New South Wales and the WCC Language Program, is working to revive the knowledge of the Wamba Wamba among the Indigenous people of the region. Based on research conducted by Dr Luise Hercus in the 1960s, Yarkuwa has set out to document, preserve and teach the entirely spoken language of the Wamba Wamba people. The proof of their success is best demonstrated by their Our Languages Our Way program, which has enabled local primary and secondary schools to weave language learning through their arts and culture programs, enabling children to learn their heritage and history in a fun and engaging way.</para>
<para>The Yarkuwa centre is a testament to the rich and vibrant culture that exists in the region and the opportunity for communities to work together for the preservation of language and culture. I was honoured to meet with the wonderful staff at the centre and I look forward to returning there someday soon.</para>
<para>There is change on the way. Only a few more sleeps till 1 July, and the people of Farrer, including the people from Deniliquin, are going to be recipients of a tax cut. Seventy-six thousand people who live in the seat of Farrer are going to be the beneficiaries of Labor's policy. Sixty-six thousand people will get a bigger tax cut than they would have got under those opposite, because Labor believes you need to earn more and keep more of what you earn.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today is a very good day to be the Special Envoy for the Great Barrier Reef, because we know that the Great Barrier Reef is home to precious marine life, supports thousands of jobs and is a global tourism icon. I am very pleased that, because of our government, UNESCO has today announced that it will maintain the Great Barrier Reef's World Heritage listing. The draft decision today recognises that the Australian and Queensland governments have made significant commitments to protect the reef and that we are delivering on those commitments. In particular, we've made significant progress on climate action, implementing sustainable fisheries and improving water quality.</para>
<para>The draft decision also recognises that we are delivering a record $1.2 billion in funding. But it also acknowledges that we're putting this funding to work where it is needed most: in the water and in the catchments. We're talking about the remediation work that we're doing and the coastal wetland restoration, which we announced just last week. I am proud of this decision because it recognises two years of incredibly hard work from a huge team of people who call the reef home and protect it every single day, and I want to say thank you to them.</para>
<para>For the past week we have watched Peter Dutton make the case for less climate action, less urgency and more delay. Under Peter Dutton, the reef would be seriously at risk not just under the World Heritage Convention but in very real terms. This means that thousands of jobs across the country, particularly in regional Queensland, would be at risk as well. Peter Dutton won't tell you the cost of his plan, but we know the cost to the Great Barrier Reef— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, I remind you to refer to members of the other place by their correct title.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>19</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Uranium</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, Senator Farrell. Yesterday, the minister stated that the Albanese government wished to see more Australian uranium mined and more Australian uranium exported to support zero emissions energy generation throughout the world. Minister, how does the Albanese government plan to achieve the growth in Australian uranium exports? What strategies is the Albanese government pursuing to support Australia's uranium industry and its growth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his question. We start the process with one of the finest resources ministers we've ever had.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, you ought to at least appreciate that, for the first time in our history, we have a resources minister from your home state. We've got one of the finest people, with one of the finest minds—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we have a fantastic female resources minister from Western Australia. All I'm saying is in answer to your question about what we are doing about—</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">An honourable senator interjecting</inline>—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is it the first time from Western Australia? I don't know about the first time, but she's a very fine female resources minister. So we start our process with this woman. Then we look around the country for where is the best, largest, most successful uranium expansion. It comes from your home state of South Australia, Senator Birmingham.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It does produce good wine. That's true. We got a lot of that wine back into China just recently, Senator Watt. But you are distracting me. We start with a great resources minister and a state with a wonderful resource in the far north of South Australia— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given Minister King is such an exceptional minister, in your words, and such a champion of the uranium industry and its exports to the world, does Minister King support removal of the moratorium on uranium mining and exporting from her home state of Western Australia?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong is on her feet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will just make the point that I think the senator is asking about a state government position.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I asked about—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, you are free to stand once the minister has concluded.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that question to be about state government legislation. It's not a matter within the minister's portfolio.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on the point of order, I was very clear in asking about the federal resources minister and her position and her actions as they relates to a ban in her home state which impedes, relating to the primary question, the ability to export more uranium to the world.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am inclined to agree with the response to the point of order as put by Senator Birmingham. The question did relate to exports, which is a federal matter, and it did relate to Minister King.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his first supplementary question. What I know about Minister King is that she supports the policies of the Labor Party.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She's a fine minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She is a fine minister. She supports the policies of the Labor Party and, like all of us in this job, in the Labor Party, we're here because of the Labor Party and we follow the policies and the decisions of the—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She doesn't like farmers.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I completely reject that suggestion—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister King has the greatest respect for farmers, particularly Western Australian farmers, and of course— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given the stated ambitions of the Albanese Labor government to export more Australian uranium to the world, does the government welcome the opportunity provided by the increased use of zero-emissions nuclear energy in so many potential export markets?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The ambition of this Albanese Labor government is of course to increase our—</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Prices!</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>exports—and push up the prices of those exports, of course. We have a situation, Senator Birmingham, where our terms of trade have never been as great as they are at the moment, and the volumes of trade. One of the products we are exporting is uranium. Just a few minutes ago I met with the people from the Port of Newcastle, a wonderful port that's in the process of a massive—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, here we are: Senator Cadell knows all about it, knows all about the Port of Newcastle. We're on the cusp of an amazing expansion under the Albanese Labor government. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Cost-of-living relief for all Australians is the core focus of the government's budget. Labor's tax cuts, the centrepiece of the budget, start in just six days time, which means that more Australians will get to keep more of what they earn. The Albanese Labor government has delivered tax cuts for all Australians, not just some. Better still, 90 per cent of women will be better off under Labor's plan. Can the minister elaborate on how Labor's tax cuts will support women with the cost of living?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Green for the question and yes, I can, because those on this side of the chamber know how important it is to drive women's economic independence and improve women's economic security. That is why, when the tax cuts come in, in just days, there will be not only a tax cut for every taxpayer but a bigger tax cut for 95 per cent of women compared with the tax cuts that were previously designed. So, there will be more tax cuts going to more women.</para>
<para>I note that the former Prime Minister said, when asked about the original stage 3 tax cuts, 'You don't fill out pink forms or blue forms for your tax return.' But, again, on this side of the chamber we know that how much you earn, how the tax system interacts with that and therefore how tax cuts are designed does matter to women; it matters enormously to women. So, 90 per cent of women who pay tax will be better off. That's 5.8 million Australian women. On average, women taxpayers will receive a tax cut of $1,650, which is about $700 more than they were going to receive under the former government's tax plan. Childcare workers, disability carers, aged-care workers, nurses and teachers are amongst those occupations that will benefit the most. These are the occupations, of course, as we know, that have high levels of women workers. In those occupations, the workforces are around 80 per cent women on average—vital industries that contribute to our economy, our community and our quality of life. That's why, when we designed these tax cuts, women were not an afterthought. They were absolutely front of mind. Women work hard across our economy, and we want to ensure that they keep more of their hard-earned money. From 1 July, they will.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that the recent budget was focused on the cost of living and the government is doing everything it can to provide relief for Australian households while putting downward pressure on inflation. Labor's tax cuts are the centrepiece of this effort, but can the minister outline how other measures in the May budget address the cost of living and benefit women?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Green. I can. As well as the tax cuts, on 1 July, we will see two extra weeks of the government funded PPL scheme, the Paid Parental Leave scheme, taking the PPL entitlement to 22 weeks. There will be $300 off every household's energy bill, a freezing of the cost of PBS medicines and, of course, a pay rise for 2.6 million workers who are working on the award wage.</para>
<para>From 1 July this budget also delivers over $1 billion for women's safety, bringing investments in women's safety to over $3.4 billion. We've also provided funding to pay superannuation on PPL, $1.9 billion to lift rent assistance, over $3 billion to reduce student debt and fix indexation of HELP loans, and important investments in women's health. Importantly, we don't see any of these investments as welfare policy. I know those over there, Senator Hume, identified that the budget was welfare policy. It's not. These are important investments in women's economic independence. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Green, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>After a decade of women being left behind by the former coalition government, it's clear that the Albanese Labor government has put women back at the centre of government decision-making. How does representation of women in the government influence policymaking, and why is it so important?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can hear those over there groaning as we talk about important investments in women; important investments in women's safety; tax cuts; over $3.4 billion for women's safety; expanding PPL and paying super on it; cheaper child care; lifting rent assistance; expanding parenting payment single and ditching ParentsNext; workplace relations reform; Medicare reform; and pay increases for the lowest paid and aged-care workers. Over 50 per cent of this government are women, but 100 per cent of this government are committed to working for women. Those opposite haven't advanced any ideas that would support women in Australia, because they are still having a fight with themselves about whether advancing women's rights or equality for women in their own ranks is the right thing to do.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement: Submarines</title>
          <page.no>22</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Minister for Defence was asked in the other place yesterday to confirm that Australia's future nuclear powered submarines were safe, and he answered, 'The short answer to the honourable member's question is that it will be safe to serve on a nuclear powered submarine.' I welcome this clarification, and I seek confirmation that you agree with the defence minister that nuclear submarines are safe for Australia's submariners, as well as those who will build them and maintain them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I respect the fact that Senator Fawcett did serve our country; I always respect that. But I don't respect the way in which your party is seeking to bring the AUKUS debate—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>'I respect him, but then I tip a bucket on him.'</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, mate. You're wrong. I don't respect the way your party is choosing to bring up the AUKUS endeavour in a vain attempt to shore up your energy plan, which is risky, expensive, uncosted and a consequence of the anti-renewables obsession of your leader. I am, and have been since we were briefed in opposition, an advocate for AUKUS—in my party, publicly and in the country. I have made clear our support for the project and our belief in the safety of this technology in nuclear submarines, operating as it has in the Virginia class and others for decades. But to try and bring AUKUS, the biggest endeavour this country has ever engaged in, into a pathetic political fight, in an attempt to shore up a policy that you're embarrassed by, is really the height of hypocrisy. It really is. It is beneath, frankly, the dignity of some on that side who understand the importance of AUKUS and the importance of bipartisanship. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
<para>Senator McKenzie interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, it applies to you. Order, Senator McKenzie! Senator Fawcett was on his feet. Senator Fawcett, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As you will have been aware, that question was not about AUKUS; it was about nuclear safety. Minister, is the nuclear reactor facility at Lucas Heights, which has been in operation in the suburbs of Sydney since 1958, safe?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not sure how this is a supplementary, but we'll go with it. If I can just refer to the primary also, I'll make this point: today we've seen the co-author of the <inline font-style="italic">D</inline><inline font-style="italic">efence strategic review</inline>, Mr Dean—and there have been others, including Mr Richardson—publicly raising concerns about the way in which AUKUS has been brought into your policy debate. Maybe have a think about the fact that some people who are supportive of and have been part of the defence—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Paterson</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is Lucas Heights safe?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You said this is a supplementary, so I'm now going with the primary. They are raising the same concerns I am. The Lucas Heights facility has operated with support from both parties of government, including the Labor Party, for many decades to provide appropriate medical isotopes and the like, so of course we'll support it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, thank you for that confirmation that nuclear technology is safe. Given Australia's track record of and commitment to nuclear safety, as demonstrated by Lucas Heights and also by the future fleet of submarines, will you or the Prime Minister now direct Labor members of parliament to cease undermining the confidence of Australian people in nuclear technology with their reckless social media messages, including the depiction of Australian cartoon characters with three eyes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It says something about the coalition that they're more worried about some social media memes than about ensuring that national security is above politics. It says something absolutely about them, doesn't it? You're so glass jawed. You're so worried about some social media thing I haven't even looked at, but you're happy to bring national security issues into a partisan debate. Give us a break.</para>
<para>In relation to Lucas Heights, I would remind those opposite that, as I said, the facility in Lucas Heights is a medical research facility; it isn't a nuclear power plant. It's completely different in operation and scale from a traditional power plant, producing just 20 megawatts of energy, about two per cent of the size of a typical one-gigawatt large-scale nuclear facility. I know you're grasping at straws because you still can't tell taxpayers how much you're going to make them pay.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, when did you turn into a socialist, making taxpayers pay for this plan to build seven reactors? When did you turn— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Minister Wong. Last night, UNESCO's report on the Great Barrier Reef made it clear that climate change is the greatest threat to the Great Barrier Reef and that the Australian government is still on probation over the Great Barrier Reef's World Heritage in-danger status. In particular, UNESCO urges the Australian government to act on climate and increase our emissions-reduction targets. Will your government now legislate a more ambitious emission reduction target in order to help secure the future of the Great Barrier Reef? Will you take this commitment to the next election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Whish-Wilson for the question. He is right to raise again the issue of the Great Barrier Reef. We know that the biggest threat to reefs worldwide is climate change, and, obviously, the Great Barrier Reef is one. It's an extraordinary reef, but there are many coral reefs around the world which are feeling the effects of climate change and are at risk of further damage as a consequence.</para>
<para>The Australian government and the Queensland government have welcomed UNESCO's latest draft decision on the Great Barrier Reef. It's a huge win for Queensland, a huge win for the thousands of people who rely on the reef for work, and a huge win for all the plants and animals that call it home. I acknowledge the work of Senator Green as our envoy for the reef and for the work that she has done with communities and more broadly.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on relevance: I asked specifically whether you would now legislate a more ambitious emissions-reduction target as requested by UNESCO.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You did, and there was a preamble around UNESCO and what UNESCO recorded. The minister is being relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We understand, unlike those opposite, that climate change is a risk for this country, which is why we have legislated both to reach net zero and a 43 per cent emissions-reduction target for 2030. I know that the senator and his party say that's not enough. I trust that they also tell their voters that those opposite don't support the action to reduce emissions and, as I can see from Senator Canavan's recent statements, still don't support net zero by 2050. Things just keep going back to where they were—it's like Groundhog Day again. What I would also say to you, senator, is those targets have to be delivered, and that requires us to transform this economy from a high-emissions economy to one— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority said today only the strongest and swiftest actions to decrease global greenhouse gas emissions will reduce the risks and limit the impacts of climate change on the reef and coral reefs around the world. How is opening new coalmines, and a future gas strategy that, for example, facilitates the Barossa gas project, one of the dirtiest projects in Australia's history, compatible with the strongest and swiftest actions on climate change?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would make a few points about our action on the reef. Apart from the net zero target and the commitment to reach 82 per cent renewable energy supply by 2030: we've invested more than $1 billion in the reef; we've accelerated water-quality improvements, including $200 million for projects such as revegetation, grazing management and engineering work; we've introduced legislation to establish an independent EPA; we've withdrawn federal funding for dams that would have had a detrimental impact on reef quality; the minister has rejected a coalmine that could have had direct impacts on the reef; we've engaged more Indigenous Rangers to manage sea country, including the crown-of-thorns outbreaks; and we've commenced a phase-out of gillnets in the marine park with a $185 million package. We are doing a great deal because we understand the importance of the reef not only to jobs and to the economy but also for future generations. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you just said that the report by UNESCO last night was a huge win for Queensland, a huge win for thousands of people who rely on the reef for work, and a huge win for all the plants and animals that call it home. Minister, the reef is fighting for its life after the seventh mass coral bleaching event this summer—the worst on record—and the science tells us that as the planet warms this will get worse. How exactly is this a huge win for the Great Barrier Reef?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The senator might not think that it's important for Queenslanders that this listing be maintained. He might want to speak against that. We understand the importance to Queenslanders, and to Australia, of the reef both economically and as part of our natural heritage. It's part of our natural heritage.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You need to take more action.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the interjection about more action. As I have repeatedly said in this place, I know that some in the Greens political party think that yelling loudly about an issue actually is policy. It is not. Yelling loudly about an issue does not transform an economy. Yelling loudly about an issue does not deliver an 82 per cent renewable energy component of our national electricity system.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Whish-Wilson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Two points of order. Firstly, Senator Wong is misleading the chamber. There was no yelling loudly. Secondly, can she actually explain how the death of the Great Barrier Reef—one of the great tragedies of our lifetime—is somehow a huge win for people who live on the reef?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, both of those are debating points. Minister Wong, please continue.</para>
<para>An honourable senator: That was yelling, if you want a good yell!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's true. You weren't yelling before, just then, so that's okay. My point is that, as a government that is committed to acting on climate change, we actually are taking on the hard task of changing our economy. That's what's required. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Wong. Given how important affordable energy is to Australian households and business today, can the minister please outline the progress being achieved under the government's reliable renewables plan, and can the minister please provide details on the Albanese Labor government's plan to help Australians with their power bills right now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Pratt for her question, and I say to her that the only plan supported by experts to deliver the clean, cheap, reliable and resilient energy system Australia needs is Albanese government's reliable renewables plan. Under that, under Labor, we've had an increase in renewables in the national grid of around 25 per cent, we've had record investment in batteries and storage, we had over 330,000 rooftop solar installations last year alone and we've green-lit more than 50 renewable projects—enough to power three million homes. And, of course, from 1 July, the Albanese Labor government is taking $300 off the power bills for every household.</para>
<para>Of course, as senators know, this stands in stark contrast to Mr Dutton and his nuclear reactors. He won't tell us what it will cost taxpayers. He won't say how much it will push up bills. Perhaps it's because his nuclear reactors are the most expensive option and they are decades away. Analysis by the Smart Energy Council estimates building the coalition's seven nuclear reactors could cost as much as $600 billion of taxpayer money. Who would have thought Peter Dutton was such a tax-and-spend socialist? That's $600 billion of taxpayers' money. This nuclear fantasy has to be one of the riskiest, most ill-thought-out policies ever put forward by a party of government—one of the worst we have ever seen.</para>
<para>Now, we all know that we've got work to do after Australia suffered a decade of denial and delay and incompetent inaction under the Liberal and National Parties. Twenty-four out of 28 coal-fired power stations announced their closure under you, and you did nothing. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know the government's energy price relief will make a big difference to people right across the country. Can the minister please now detail the importance of providing certainty in the energy transition and the impact on Australians' energy bills of risky, unrealistic and uncosted alternatives?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pratt. The Albanese government's energy plan is the best way to deliver cheaper, cleaner and more reliable energy. What we know about Minister Dutton's plan is it's too slow to keep the lights on, too expensive to build and too risky for Australia's energy needs. Since we have come to office, renewable generation in the National Electricity Market has increased by 25 per cent. That's a result of certainty for investors and industry. Even Senator Birmingham said last week, 'There is absolutely a place for large-scale renewables; it's an important part of the mix.' Of course, the day before, Mr Littleproud had said the opposite.</para>
<para>As I said, 24 out of 28 coal-fired power stations announced their closure under you, and you did nothing, and you still haven't learned. You're putting forward a policy too slow to keep the lights on, too expensive to build and too risky for Australia's energy needs.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Incoming Chair of the Climate Change Authority and former New South Wales Liberal Treasurer and energy minister Matt Kean, yesterday said about nuclear—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, please resume your seat. Order across the chamber! I could not hear Senator Pratt's question.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Pratt, would you please begin again?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can begin again if the clock is reset.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sure.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Incoming Chair of the Climate Change Authority and former New South Wales Liberal Treasurer and energy minister, Matt Kean, yesterday said about nuclear energy—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie! Order! I would like to—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie! I would like to be able to hear Senator Pratt ask her question. Senator Pratt, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Matt Kean said, 'It would take far too long and be far too expensive.' Can the minister please explain to the Senate why renewables are the best way to achieve a more reliable, affordable and cleaner energy future for Australia?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know how much those opposite like to be reminded about what Matt Kean has said, so I will just say that Mr Kean is right: reliable renewables are the best and cheapest way to secure Australia's energy future. Meanwhile what we have is Mr Dutton refusing to tell Australians how much it will cost to build nuclear reactors and refusing to tell Australians how much more their bill will be as a consequence of this policy. He also won't tell Australians how he's actually going to power the country in the decades it's going to take for these taxpayer funded reactors to be built. The only thing he will say—I love this!—is this: 'But it will be a big bill. It will be a big bill. No question about that—it will be a big bill.' That's the transparency with the Australian people of the alternative prime minister of Australia: 'It will be a big bill.'</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Artificial Intelligence</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Attorney-General, Minister Watt. Minister, Meta has announced that from tomorrow it plans to harvest social media users' data to train its new AI tools, sparking serious concerns right around the world about privacy issues and copyright, particularly amongst creatives. Consumers in the EU and UK are able to opt out if they choose to because of protections their government has put in place. What action is the government taking to protect the data of Australians and Australian small businesses?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pocock, and I share your concerns, as does this government. I'm certainly aware that, from 26 June—which is tomorrow—Meta plans on using public social media activity from users to train and improve its AI tools. I think that this raises privacy concerns for many Australians. It corresponds with the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner's 2023 privacy survey, which found that roughly 70 per cent of Australians consider that organisations using AI must comply with strict privacy rules and less than 20 per cent are comfortable with businesses using AI to make decisions about them based on their personal information.</para>
<para>Senator Pocock, you asked what action the government is taking. As a starting point, the Privacy Commissioner, Ms Carly Kind, has requested a meeting with Meta to discuss their proposed privacy safeguards regarding its AI tools. The Albanese government is also committed to stronger privacy protections for Australians. As you'd be aware, Senator Pocock, we do have a number of proposed privacy reforms that we seek to bring through this parliament. They would assist in mitigating some of these risks and concerns by requiring the collection, use and disclosure of personal information to be fair and reasonable in the circumstances. They would require consent to be voluntary and informed and would recognise the ability for individuals to withdraw consent; they would require entities to provide clear information about the use of algorithms and profiling to recommend content to individuals; and they would provide individuals with additional rights, including a right to erasure under certain circumstances.</para>
<para>It's a bit trite, I guess, to say that, with the use of AI growing in Australia and internationally, we are finding that the laws that we have in place right around the world need updating to ensure that safeguards are provided. I'm looking forward to the outcome of that meeting between the Privacy Commissioner and Meta while we get on with our broader reforms.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. It's good to hear that you've requested a meeting with Meta. I was listening to an interview in which Dr Julia Powles, associate professor of law and tech at UWA, highlighted that the speculative collection of information for future unknown purposes is unlawful in Australia. Will the A-G actually stand up for Australians and prevent this foreign company from breaching our laws and taking Australians' data without their consent?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Pocock. I certainly can assure the Australian public that the Attorney-General will use all powers at his disposal to ensure that Australians' privacy is protected, whether it be from social media giants or from others who do not observe the privacy rights of Australians. So, to the extent that existing laws do permit action to be taken, I'm confident that the Attorney-General will give that serious consideration while these discussions go on directly with Meta about the precise issue that you're asking about and that, according to Meta, it intends to pursue from tomorrow. So there can be no doubt about the Albanese government's commitment to ensuring and upholding Australians' privacy rights. As I say, we do have a range of privacy reforms proposed that we intend to pursue to strengthen those rights. But, as I say, to the extent that laws provide opportunities for the Attorney-General to take action, I'm confident that he'll do so.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. On what date was a meeting requested with Meta, and is the government's plan of action to take action after-the-fact or is there some sort of pre-emptive move from the Attorney-General to tell Meta that they can't do what they plan on doing from tomorrow? This is not something that can wait.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lambie</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yeah, from tomorrow. What are you doing to protect our info?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, it's not your question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would obviously have to take on notice the date that that meeting was sought by the Privacy Commissioner, and I'm happy, in doing so, to provide any further information I can as to other steps that the Attorney-General and his department have taken in relation to this matter. But, as I say, I think the fact that that meeting is occurring between the Privacy Commissioner and Meta does demonstrate the seriousness with which we take these issues, along with those extensive privacy reforms that we intend to bring into parliament as soon as we can.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Legal Centres</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Attorney-General. Chronic underfunding of community legal centres is forcing centres to turn away more than a thousand Australians every day. Not only did the budget fail to provide desperately needed funds to address workforce shortages and increasing demand; it does not provide commitment to funding beyond June 2025 in the forward estimates. Tasmania has the lowest ratio of legal practitioners to population of any jurisdiction in this country, with a lack of lawyers placing more pressure on the legal assistance sector. At the same time, Commonwealth funding for community legal centres has not kept pace with the population growth in Tasmania. Why is the government neglecting to appropriately fund community legal centres in Tasmania and across the rest of the nation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Lambie. I can assure you that I very much understand the important role that community legal services play. In my much younger days, I did quite a bit of volunteer work in community legal services both in Melbourne and, I think, in Brisbane as well, to my recollection. They play a vital role in providing legal advice and legal services to some of the most disadvantaged members of our community. That's exactly why in this year's budget the government announced $44.1 million of urgent funding, for this coming financial year, to help legal assistance providers address current resource and workforce issues until the new National Legal Assistance Partnership agreement commences, on 1 July 2025. The forming of that new agreement, which commences in just over 12 months time, is the key point in time in which we can lock in longer term funding for community legal services, but we recognise that it is important to make sure they have the funding they need to get them through to that point in time so that they can meet the very real resource and workforce issues that many of them have.</para>
<para>The new National Legal Assistance Partnership between the Commonwealth and all states and territories is intended to be a five-year agreement to fund vital legal assistance services for the most vulnerable Australians. As I say, it's through that longer term agreement, which will commence in a bit over 12 months time, that we will be seeking to lock in longer term funding and provide certainty for community legal services. That requires negotiations with the states and territories, and, inevitably, that takes a period of time, but we didn't want to leave those community legal services stranded without the extra resources that they need in the meantime. That's why we provided that urgent funding through this year's budget, and I certainly hope that that goes some way to meeting the needs of those services.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, you did provide that funding, but the additional funding needed was $125 million—you were way off and way short—to address funding issues for community legal centres, which will be used to keep the doors open and employ around 2,000 full-time staff to simply meet the demand. With just $9.3 million in extra funding provided in the budget, does the government have a plan to address this funding shortfall, and when will the government commit the necessary funding to community legal centres to ensure access to justice is maintained into the future?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I say, Senator Lambie, we very much understand the financial difficulties that many community legal services are under and have been under for a long period of time. I'm sure—within my notes here, somewhere—I could talk about the underfunding of those services by the former coalition government, but we're more interested in trying to sort out the problem and provide them with the funding that they need.</para>
<para>As I say, the new five-year agreement, which is expected to come into force in a bit over 12 months time, would be the vehicle to provide longer term funding for those services. I'm sure you're aware that we have now—only very recently, since the most recent budget—received the report of Dr Warren Mundy to review the current Legal Assistance Partnership agreement between the Commonwealth and the states. That has provided us with good advice that we can take into account in working out the proper funding level, going forward.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The community legal sector is a female dominated workforce, with salaries significantly less than in private practice or for equivalent positions within government, by as much as 35 per cent. If the government is serious about addressing the gender pay gap, what is the government doing to address the gender pay gap experienced by those employed in community legal centres across the country, especially those women?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You're right, Senator Lambie. In my experience many—a majority, in fact—of the staff who work at community legal services are women, and, just like in every other part of the workforce, unfortunately, too many of them continue to experience the gender pay gap. More broadly, one of the things that this government is most proud of is the fact that we have reduced the gender pay gap—to the lowest it has ever been, on record—across the entire economy, but we recognise that a gap still exists, including in legal services, and that's something that we want to tackle.</para>
<para>It would certainly be our intention that the extra funding that was provided in this year's budget and that will inevitably be provided in the next five-year agreement would go some way to meeting those issues. Of course, it wasn't that long ago that, under a Labor government, we did see a significant pay rise for workers in the community sector, including these legal services, the majority of whom are women. Labor has a pretty good track record in trying to meet those needs in those services, and we'll continue to do what we can. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Assange, Mr Julian Paul</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong. Over the last two years, the Albanese Labor government has worked to help bring Julian Assange home. Just last month, the Prime Minister said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… enough is enough. There's nothing to be served by the ongoing incarceration of Mr Assange. And we continue to work very closely to achieve that outcome.</para></quote>
<para>Can the foreign minister please advise the Senate on what the government is doing to support Mr Assange?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Urquhart for the question, given that the Prime Minister has just responded in the House to a question on Mr Assange. The Prime Minister and I have been very clear. Mr Assange's case has dragged on for too long. Over the last two years, the Albanese government has advocated for him to come home. That advocacy has been led by the Prime Minister, and the Prime Minister has been very clear about the priority he gives to Mr Assange's case. He has been supported in that by the Attorney-General and me, and by the relentless work of senior diplomats and others. We want to be in a position to see Mr Assange reunited with his family in Australia. Mr Assange has legal proceedings scheduled in the United States. Obviously, it isn't appropriate for me or anyone to comment on ongoing court proceedings. What I can do is acknowledge that there are many here in parliament who have advocated for Mr Assange to come home, as have supporters in Australia and around the world.</para>
<para>Since we came to office, the Albanese Labor government has been working to bring Mr Assange's case to a close. The Prime Minister has led these efforts and has personally raised Mr Assange's case at the most senior levels, including with President Biden and Prime Minister Sunak. Similarly, the Attorney-General, and I, as foreign minister, have raised Mr Assange's case, as I've said in this place, with American and United Kingdom counterparts. Australian officials—in particular, Ambassador Kevin Rudd and High Commissioner Stephen Smith—have worked closely with US and UK officials in support of these efforts. We have worked constructively with the US and UK for the efforts to find a pathway for all parties.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Over the last few years, how has the Albanese government supported Mr Assange and his family?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Over the last two years, the Albanese government has worked to support Mr Assange and his family. This included advocating for due process, for humane treatment, for medical care and for legal representation—just as we do for all Australians who are detained overseas. As foreign minister, I have met with members of Mr Assange's family and legal team on a number of occasions, as have Australia's High Commissioner to the United Kingdom and our Ambassador to the United States, as well as our hardworking consular team in Canberra.</para>
<para>For several years, Mr Assange declined Australian government consular visits, but last year, at my request, our High Commissioner to the United Kingdom met with Mr Assange and has done so on a number of occasions since. We will continue to provide consular assistance to Mr Assange.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am aware that there are many in this place who have supported Mr Assange. Can you please update the Senate on cross-party efforts to help bring him home?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for that question. I know that there are many around the world, and in Australia, who have passionately advocated for Mr Assange and I recognise those parliamentarians who have been part of that advocacy.</para>
<para>Last September, the Bring Julian Assange Home Parliamentary Group co-conveners travelled to Washington and they advocated for the incarceration of Mr Assange to end. That is consistent with the position that has been articulated by the Albanese government and that we have been very clear on. We have consistently stated that there is nothing to be served by the ongoing incarceration of Mr Julian Assange.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, on 31 July 2023, you told the chamber that electricity prices in the ACT had fallen due to its 100 per cent renewable energy generation. If you still believe this to be true, can you explain why the ACT energy provider, ActewAGL, has increased its prices by 12.75 per cent just this month?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McDonald for the question. In relation to ActewAGL, which is the provider here in the territory, that's really a matter for them. I don't have responsibility for the price setting. There's an ICRC in the ACT that does that, and then the utilities apply that to their account holders. So I can't answer on that, but what I can say is that the ACT has led the way in terms of renewable energy generation. I was proud to be part of a government that took that decision many years ago and started the shift from a reliance on gas, particularly, to more adoption of renewable energy across households in the ACT. Households in the ACT have been the beneficiary of that not only in terms of some of the price increases that we have seen around the country but also importantly in terms of supporting the investment into renewables.</para>
<para>I know we were one of the first jurisdictions to have reverse auctions for renewable energy projects. We were one of the first jurisdictions to have big solar farms built, providing energy into the grid here. I think the ACT has often led the way on these things, and I'm proud to be part of a government that continues to support the rollout of renewable energy. I'm proud to stand here and say it is the cheapest form of energy. It will help households with these costs. We don't support the scam that they're trying to pull on people with this nuclear energy fantasy that seems to be peddled by some over there—not all, because I've hardly seen you awake this question time in terms of leaning into support for such a so-called big announcement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, almost five per cent of this increase was due to network and transmission costs. Have transmission cost increases of five per cent been included in the costings of your renewables-only energy policy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): Rewiring the Nation and the cost of that have been outlined in the budget paper since we came to government. Through Rewiring the Nation we're investing in the projects that are required but also in the transmission and how we hook other projects up to the grid. So, in terms of being upfront about what some of those costs are: yes, we have been. I can talk to other projects where those costs are outlined in the budget papers. But there is no doubt, whichever way you try to slice and dice it or confuse it or pretend it's otherwise, that renewables are the cheapest form of energy. The world is shifting to renewables, and here we have a so-called plan, a policy of a few pages, that doesn't say how much it costs, doesn't say how they will do it and doesn't say when they will do it. What a joke! You had 22 policies in government and you couldn't land one. You have one in opposition and you can't land that. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, how much more are Australians paying for energy since the Prime Minister promised to reduce power bills by $275 on 3 December 2021?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thankfully it hasn't been left to those opposite to decide this because, of course, they opposed the energy bill relief that we provided in the last budget. When we took a vote in this chamber about energy bill relief, taking the pressure off some concession households and small businesses, what happened over there? They opposed it. Whilst we are taking responsibility for the shift and the transition to a renewable energy system and being the renewable energy superpower that we can be and seizing all the opportunities that come with that, we are at the same time investing in that and making sure that people have some help with the cost of living and with their energy bills in particular. We can support households with the shift, seize the jobs that come, attract the investment we need, deliver the projects that are needed and be upfront and take responsibility for it—unlike those opposite.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Renewable Energy</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Minister Watt. The cost of living is top of mind for regional Australians, with energy affordability one of their key concerns. The Australian energy market operator has said that renewables are the lowest-cost way to supply electricity to homes and businesses throughout Australia's transition to a net zero economy. How will the Albanese Labor government's clean, cheap and reliable energy plan benefit regional Australians?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Good question, Senator Stewart.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It was a very good question, arguably the best all day. On 1 July—in only six days time—we're taking $300 off the power bills of every regional household around Australia. Some of them are starting to smile for the first time today—we know you like that! In two decades, in contrast, Mr Dutton will serve up to regional Australians the most expensive form of energy there is with zero relief in the meantime.</para>
<para>Our reliable renewables plan is the only plan supported by experts to deliver the clean, cheap, reliable and resilient energy system that regional Australians deserve, and it's the only energy plan that is delivering jobs for regional Australians right now. Under Labor, we've had a 25 per cent increase in renewables in the national grid, we've had record investment in batteries and storage, we've had more than 50 renewable projects greenlit—enough to power three million homes—and we've had more than 330,000 rooftop solar installations last year alone, and many of these have been in regional Australia. That's because renewables are the cheapest form of energy, and getting more renewables into our system is the key to bringing regional power prices down. That is something that regional Australians already understand.</para>
<para>Only a few weeks ago, I was in Armidale in the electorate of anti-renewables zealot Mr Barnaby Joyce, and there I met with the local mayor, Mr Sam Coupland, who said that local farmers were increasingly putting wind turbines on their properties to shore up their businesses during times of drought. Mayor Coupland has also said the construction phase for renewables will likely last many years and provide a significant boost to the local economy. Former NFF president Mr Brent Finlay is another who is said to host more than a dozen turbines on his property in south-west Queensland, and he says this is a region that has been heavily impacted by drought and there's very little chance to diversify. This is a chance to diversify and spread— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, I will ask you to withdraw the last part of your comment about Mr Barnaby Joyce.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stewart, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That sounds like a very sensible plan. At the May budget, the government outlined its plan for a future made in Australia, creating jobs and economic opportunities across the country. Why is the Albanese government's rollout of renewable energy so important to securing jobs in the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Stewart—another cracker of a question. We know that the world's climate emergency is regional Australia's jobs opportunity. Jobs and Skills Australia has found Australia will need 32,000 more electricians between now and 2030, and 85,000 more to 2050. In the 38 critical clean energy occupations we need 240,000 jobs by 2030, and the renewable energy rollout is already creating jobs in regional Australia. For example, in my home state of Queensland, the town of Gladstone is cementing its spot as a world leader when it comes to creating new, clean-economy manufacturing jobs in hydrogen and renewable energy.</para>
<para>But renewables are also vital to keeping existing jobs in towns like Gladstone. Earlier this year, global resources giant Rio Tinto signed Australia's largest renewable power purchase agreement to supply its Gladstone operations in Queensland. Its CEO said, 'We now have a pathway to provide the competitive firmed power our Gladstone plants need.' Renewables are the key to keeping our regions strong. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stewart, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>After a decade of failed energy policies under those opposite—Liberals and Nationals—regional Australians want reliable and resilient energy sources today. Why is investment in renewable energy sources the right path for powering regional Australia, and what are the main risks to securing clean, cheap and reliable energy for the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Stewart. Renewables are cheap, clean and provide a valuable source of income for regional Australians, but, of course, the biggest risk to this income source is the coalition's risky nuclear gamble led by the new advocate of Soviet-style policies, Mr Dutton. That's right. 'Proletariat Pete' is not content with chasing away the thousands of jobs being created in our regions through cheap renewable energy—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt! Order!</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order across the chamber!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie! Minister, please withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He's not content with chasing away the thousands of jobs being created in our regions through cheap renewable energy. He and his team, led here by 'Bolshevik Birmo' and 'Comrade Cash'—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw. They won't tell regional Australians how much they will pay to build their nuclear reactors, how much nuclear power will add to their bills, how much nuclear waste there will be or where it will go and just how many reactors there will be in regional Australian communities. Nuclear is the most expensive form of energy. All that means is higher taxes and higher bills for regions. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY OFFICE HOLDERS</title>
        <page.no>31</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY OFFICE HOLDERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>President</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to inform the Senate that, on Wednesday 26 June 2024, I will be temporarily absent from the Senate on account of parliamentary business and that, in accordance with the standing orders, the Deputy President will take the chair.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>31</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of answers by ministers to questions without notice asked by coalition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>I'd particularly like to start by pointing out that, when people keep quoting these supposedly independent reports, the Australian public must always ask: what were the constraints placed on the report that people can make? We've seen a recent example with the Australian Law Reform Commission report which the government is citing as an 'independent report which guides its action', yet the head commissioner who wrote that report, after publishing the report, said in a conference, 'This is not the result we would have liked to have delivered, but we were constrained by the government's terms of reference, which align with their policy.' So we need to look at the constraints that these other agencies have and then compare them with reports that come from overseas agencies.</para>
<para>When we hear the rhetoric from those opposite—including from Minister Wong today, who says that nuclear power is the most expensive form of energy, and she quotes the figure $600 billion—we have to then look at their own reports that they commissioned, such as the CSIRO's <inline font-style="italic">GenCost</inline> report, which says it's about $8.65 billion for a run of nuclear reactors. When you round that up, that's about $60 billion. Compare that to the work that was done by the University of Melbourne, University of Queensland and Princeton University called the Net Zero Australia project, which is a detailed scientifically based analysis of the cost of the renewables-only plan that the Albanese government has endorsed. What they say is that it's an estimated commitment of between $7 trillion and $9 trillion. Let that figure sink in. Worst case, even the exaggerated boast of Senator Wong was $600 billion. More likely, according to the CSIRO, it's in the order of $60 billion. But, according to the Net Zero project, the Albanese government wants to spend $7 trillion to $9 trillion. If you break that down on cost, you'll see that businesses and residents would be paying so much more.</para>
<para>The key takeaway from the Net Zero project was that the clean energy infrastructure investment represents 65 to 77 per cent of the total capital required. Let's look at independent bodies, like the OECD. The International Energy Agency worked with the OECD to produce a report that was published in April 2022. On page 37, it says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the costs of reaching net zero with high shares of variable renewables are likely prohibitive.</para></quote>
<para>And why? It's because of the overbuild required in terms of the distributed nature of variable renewables, as well as the infrastructure costs of all the additional transmission lines and the batteries to firm.</para>
<para>These are independent bodies, internationally recognised, who are saying that the assertions from those opposite are clearly not right. They also say that it's going to take far too long. And, yet again, in that same report, on page 40, it says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… historical and recent experience show that under the right policy frameworks and a robust programmatic approach, nuclear power can be a low-carbon technology with rapid delivery times and with the highest rate of annual increase of electricity generation per capita …</para></quote>
<para>If you look at the UAE and what it has achieved in terms of the amount of clean energy in a decade, it dwarfs the amount of energy over a decade that the EU has achieved with its massive investment in renewables. Rather than dealing with the facts of the matter, we see lots of assertions and, more concerningly, we even have the Hon. Patrick Gorman, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, using his office resources to send out letters to members of the coalition, with little cartoons of what a reactor might look like, inviting us to come to his office and stick it on a map to show where we'd like the reactor to be so that they can mount a scare campaign with communities.</para>
<para>That shows that the government is afraid to engage in a fact based discussion, to take into account all of the evidence from around the world, not only of that which is done by scientists and researchers but of the lived experience of countries such as Canada that show that, as the OECD in the IEA report, long-run nuclear power is the cheapest form of grid-scale electricity for a nation. And because new nuclear, which is on a par with grid-scale solar for new build, will run for nearly five times the length of solar, it is the cheapest, it is reliable and it is quick to install.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It has been interesting to listen to the debate today and over the last little while on nuclear. When we talk about experts, it's important to look at what they are actually saying rather than cherry-picking some of the evidence.</para>
<para>The Smart Energy Council, which is renowned for its work in terms of clean energy and other forms of energy in Australia, conducted an analysis and found that the cost reach was as much as $600 billion—which was the figure that Senator Wong mentioned earlier in question time—to build seven nuclear reactors. That's $600 billion of taxpayers' money to deliver some energy in maybe 15 or 20 years time.</para>
<para>A recent report from the CSIRO, another well-respected agency on both sides of politics—calculated that the costs for large-scale nuclear reactors revealed that the electricity generated from nuclear power in Australia would be at least 50 per cent more expensive than solar and wind. Yesterday, in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline>, a paper renowned for its analysis and impact on the business sector in Australia, wrote an outstanding article looking at the viability of nuclear in Australia, with the headline, 'Nuclear is unviable because of economics, not engineering'. The article goes to the point that the economic numbers simply don't stack up for nuclear. It reads::</para>
<quote><para class="block">The CSIRO—</para></quote>
<para>report that I mentioned—</para>
<quote><para class="block">estimates the cost of 90 per cent renewables, with firming, transmission, and integration costs included, at $109 per megawatt hour. Based on South Korean costs (roughly one-third of the US and Europe), a 60-year lifespan, a 60 per cent economic utilisation rate (as per coal today), and an eight-year build time (as per the global average), nuclear would cost $200 per megawatt hour—nearly double.</para></quote>
<para>Further, the article also mentions:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Its worth noting that, even at 93 per cent utilisation (the highest ever achieved in the US where nuclear is a small share of supply), nuclear is still 25 per cent more expensive than renewables. This is also where the opposition's claim that nuclear will ensure system reliability falls apart. For nuclear, the goals of reliability and viability are fundamentally opposed. To bring nuclear closer to economic viability, it must play a minor role in the system to consistently run at full capacity, with nothing more to give when called upon.</para></quote>
<para>So, as we can see, the costs of nuclear are very high, and this has been the government's argument since the opposition made their announcement, not too long ago, that nuclear power is simply a political distraction, that it is simply too expensive and will ultimately push up costs for everyday Australians.</para>
<para>Reports from other independent experts tell us nuclear can't be built in Australia before 2040. I think even the coalition admits that that is the case. What are we going to do between now and then? Experts also confirm that solar and wind, backed up with storage in gas, is by far the cheapest way to generate power for Australian homes and businesses. And as Senator Farrell also mentioned, our fine Minister for Resources, Madeleine King, has done an outstanding job of securing gas here in Australia, ensuring that we have a gas strategy so that Australian households around the country can tap into the gas supplies that are so desperately needed.</para>
<para>The Albanese's government reliable and renewable plan is delivering cheap, clean power, and this shows that we're on the right track. It's delivering good, lasting jobs in many parts of Australia, particularly in the regions, which have powered Australia's prosperity. The so-called plan that's been put forward by the opposition is a plan that has no costings. The opposition can't tell us what form of nuclear reactor will be built. They can't even tell us how many reactors will be built at the seven sites that have been selected, as we saw from the shadow minister over the weekend on <inline font-style="italic">Insiders</inline>.</para>
<para>It's worth noting that this government, in the recent budget, is investing heavily. We're investing $22.5 million over the next decade to help Australia become a renewable energy superpower, $3.2 billion for ARENA to promote clean energy innovation, $1.7 billion for the Future Made in Australia Innovation Fund and $6.7 billion for hydrogen production tax credits.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I guess the rest of the world should just be looking to this Labor government, because clearly over 30 countries across the world who already have nuclear energy as part of their mix, and the other 50 who are looking to introduce it, need to have a chat to—Senator Farrell? Senator Watt? I mean, God help them if they went and had a chat to Minister Bowen—how that'd go. But clearly these ministers know something the rest of the world does not, because the rest of the world—19 of the largest 20 economies of the world—have nuclear energy as part of their mix. Guess who the one outlier is: that would be us. It is embarrassing to hear these regurgitated arguments that clearly were in Labor's talking points and that no-one's updated. No-one's been listening to the way the debate's gone over the last two years. No-one has bothered to update the talking points that are distributed. It's still the scare campaign: nuclear's too expensive; it's not safe. That is an absolute abomination—to have ministers of the Crown come in here and refuse to acknowledge the safety of nuclear power, when we have a nuclear reactor at Lucas Heights and when we are about to put our submariners to sleep and to work right next to nuclear reactors. To have ministers of the Crown refusing to acknowledge the safety aspects is beyond deplorable.</para>
<para>But the thing that I think got me—apart from the fact that I don't even know what Senator Farrell was talking about; he certainly didn't refer to the question, let alone provide any sort of answer or information to the chamber—was, interestingly, Senator Watt's response with regard to rural and regional communities and apparently the great focus that the ALP and this government has on rural and regional communities. I guess that's reflected in the fact that pretty much none of them ever votes for a Labor member, because the electorates there are far too smart and actually understand that Labor, and particularly this government, have no interest in rural and regional Australia. Yesterday we had 'transmission Monday' for the 10th time, where we've been asking for an inquiry to have a look at the transmission lines that are being bulldozed through rural and regional communities with very little to no consultation, that are being bulldozed through Indigenous heritage sites and that are being bulldozed through koala habitats. But those opposite paired up with their mates in the Greens, who used to care about the inquiry. They used to actually worry about the environment. They used to worry about koala habitats, but not anymore. If they can get a brand new transmission line for renewable power, that's their priority.</para>
<para>The other thing is those opposite—because most of them wouldn't know what a farm is compared to a zoo—don't understand that the nuclear footprint in terms of land required is a significantly smaller amount than for renewable projects. We are talking considerable differences in land size. To get a bit of an understanding, let's look at nuclear reactors that take up about the size of half a football field. Let's be specific, if we want to talk about specifics in reports. The Rolls-Royce SMR takes about five acres of land. The Westinghouse AP1000 takes up about 22 acres of land, so it's a bit larger than Parliament House. For every megawatt-hour of energy produced, though, to produce the same amount of energy from a wind farm, you would require 360 times that amount of land. Think of Parliament House—I'm sure everyone wants to think about 360 more parliament houses anywhere! An area 360 times the size of this Parliament House would be required to generate the same amount of power as one Parliament House would generate from nuclear. From the solar perspective—and we don't talk about the fact that Uighur and Chinese slavery is used to build solar panels—we would need 75 times the land mass.</para>
<para>When Minister Watt and any of those opposite want to go and talk to rural and regional communities, they might want to start to get their heads around the size and scope of the arable farming land, the fact that you are going through communities and the disruption that is happening in those areas. That's why rural and regional communities are fighting back against these reckless renewable programs that are not reliable energy and are so far behind schedule that it is absolutely jeopardising the future of our country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is such a fascinating debate. We know full well what those opposite did for 10 long years when they were in government. They watched 24 out of 28 coal-fired power stations announce their closures. Obviously, that was going to mean that there would need to be some form of alternative energy coming into the system to make up for that. We all know that coal has to decline. We all know that that is the future. That's what's happening. But those opposite knew for years and years and did absolutely nothing about it. They didn't propose a nuclear plan, there was no legislation on nuclear and there was no money for nuclear—nothing. But now, in the all-care-and-no-responsibility of opposition, in an attempt to reignite the climate wars and look for a leverage point as we lead up to an election in the next 12 months, they bring on this risky, risky plan.</para>
<para>Why is it risky? Because, quite simply, there is no understanding of how this is going to roll out. There is no understanding of the reality of the sites. I can speak to you about Port Augusta, one of the sites that's in that plan, and tell you that where they have determined to place their nuclear plant is a power station that closed down in 2016. Has that land sat vacant since 2016? No, it really hasn't. It is overseen by Port Augusta Operations, and they have a plan in place. There is an organisation, Hallett Group, who are working on a green cement plant there. They had no idea. No-one rang them up. Nobody said: 'We're thinking about putting a nuclear reactor on this site. Is that okay? Is this an appropriate place?' No—nothing. That land is not vacant. It is not free. It is not available. What does that do for the investment of those companies that committed to that site and have ploughed into the projects that they are planning? Such is the economic vandalism of this proposal and the shortsighted nature of this proposal.</para>
<para>I don't propose to speak for the people of Port Augusta on the idea of putting nuclear there because I haven't asked them that question. I wouldn't be that arrogant. But, obviously, those opposite are. We need to engage communities about where things are going. And guess what? Two years ago, when the Albanese Labor government came to power, we put in place a plan that we had been talking to the community about for years. It's a plan that has seen businesses invest significantly in renewable energy because they see it as the way forward. We have seen energy companies make those choices about where the pathway is going for them. They're not clamouring at the door, saying, 'Bring us on a nuclear option for the future.' No. That's because they have invested significantly in a renewable energy future. We have an abundance of wind. We have an abundance of solar. We have plans for pumped hydro, offshore wind and onshore wind. These are things that Australia has on offer. These are things that are natural to our country and that we have in abundance. We can harness that to meet the energy needs of the future.</para>
<para>When we came to government there was a huge gap caused by the abject neglect of those opposite when it came to the future of the energy needs of this country. We can rage about memes and feign anxiety about different campaigns that people might run, but how about we think about the people? How about we think about the people who are out there who have invested heavily? It's not just businesses; it's governments and communities. Over 330,000 people put solar on their roofs last year. That is a significant investment. This plan from those opposite for nuclear reactors is risky and shortsighted, and it has undertaken no meaningful consultation with the people who it will actually impact.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of answers to questions to the government, and I am thinking about the different answers across the uranium industry, energy prices and nuclear energy. There really weren't a lot of clear answers. There was a lot of rhetoric and a lot of reference to the coalition's nuclear policy, part of which was announced last week. That is really interesting because there is this ongoing deflection around key elements of the government's own work and the government's own policy, which we don't seem to hear a lot about. We hear a lot about what the former government did and what the opposition is doing now but very little on what the government is doing.</para>
<para>It really saddened me to hear about this fantastic $300 energy rebate. A lot of the social media from members and senators on the other side talks about how people are going to have access to that from 1 July. Well, they are not. It's $75 a quarter. The problem is that everybody gets it. People who don't need it at all will get it and people who really, really need it are going to have to wait to get $75 a quarter. I don't really think that that's the right message to be sending when we are actually meant to be caring about people, as Senator Grogan indicated.</para>
<para>The thing I want to talk about most is the technology of nuclear submarines and nuclear safety. These were some questions to Senator Wong. It made me pause to think, because she commented on the Lucas Heights reactor. I will be quite open: I don't know as much about that as I should. So it led me to do a little bit of research. I discovered that that site is called ANSTO. That's the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation. That is the site. It is Australia's centre of excellence for nuclear and it has a mandated role to advise the Australian government on all nuclear and science technology matters. I thought that was really interesting. What is nuclear stewardship? It says on their website that nuclear stewardship is 'the responsible planning, operation, application, management, and leadership of nuclear facilities and technologies to ensure the highest levels of safety, security, safeguards and sustainability.' I think it's pretty important and pretty impressive that we have a facility that is already achieving those things. Further on, I discovered:</para>
<quote><para class="block">ANSTO is responsible for the planning, operation, application, management and leadership of nuclear facilities and technologies to ensure that the highest level of safety, security safeguards and sustainability are met to maximise utilisation, benefit and assurance for the people of Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Apparently, this Open Pool Australian Light-water (OPAL) multipurpose reactor is one of the most advanced reactors in the world. So the answer to the question that was put to Senator Wong would have been, yes, this is very, very safe; it's as safe as the AUKUS submarines.</para>
<para>I came across another interesting thing, and this thought came to my mind when Senator McDonald asked Senator Gallagher a question and she responded: 'What a joke! This is all a joke, what you guys are doing.' It's actually not a joke. It's really important, because this is an Australian asset, effectively. It's a capability and a skill that we have, particularly in the science and technology realm. When I was having a look on the website, I found a really interesting letter from the Hon. Ed Husic, right after his appointment as Minister for Industry and Science. I'm going to read a few excerpts from that letter if I have time, but the key one is:</para>
<quote><para class="block">ANSTO is well-positioned to support Government and industry in catalysing Australia's energy transition towards net zero emissions … I expect ANSTO to be impartial with respect to the role of nuclear energy in Australia's pathway to net zero, and to use its expertise in climate science, materials science and environmental science to contribute to this objective.</para></quote>
<para>I think that leads us to understand that, when we want to solve the energy problem, we need to look at a balanced approach.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water (Senator Wong) to a question without notice I asked today relating to the Great Barrier Reef.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to take note of the response by Senator Wong to my question, but I would also like to briefly reflect on the question on Julian Assange asked of Senator Wong by Senator Urquhart. I'd like to add my thoughts and give my thanks to Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, for showing leadership on the issue of bringing Julian Assange home, and to all MPs in the Labor Party and those brave enough in the LNP to have stood up on this issue. A special thanks goes to Ambassador Kevin Rudd, who I had dinner with in Washington last year, along with the delegation. I got the very strong impression at that time that he was doing everything he could to secure the release of Julian Assange. He said to me, 'Power in this place is a bit like playing Rubik's cube: every time you think you've got something lined up, something else pops up in a combination.' I got the impression that it has been a long road for a lot of people. So my thanks go to the Prime Minister. I can't help but make the contrast with the previous Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, who openly boasted about having Mike Pompeo, the head of the CIA, on speed dial, and they're now working together. That's why we had no action at all from the previous government to secure Mr Assange's release. It's been night and day between the two governments in the last five years.</para>
<para>I asked a question of Senator Wong today about UNESCO's report last night on the Great Barrier Reef. In the Senate here today, Senator Wong said the exact words that are in Minister Plibersek's media statement—that the UNESCO report was somehow a huge win for the Great Barrier Reef, the people on the reef and all the animals and corals on the reef. It's quite outrageous, considering we are talking about a time in history when the Great Barrier Reef is literally fighting for its life. We've had a seventh mass coral bleaching this summer, the worst on record. We don't know yet what the coral mortality will be, but, having been up there myself and borne witness to this, I can attest that what is unfolding on one of the greatest natural wonders on this planet is absolutely devastating. It is one of the great tragedies of our time. For the government to somehow claim that a UNESCO report that tells the government it needs to do more on climate action is a huge win for the Barrier Reef just doesn't make sense.</para>
<para>I'd like to read a direct quote from Minister Plibersek's media release. She says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We need to act on climate change. We need to protect our special places and the animals that call them home. And that is precisely what we are doing.</para></quote>
<para>That's precisely what UNESCO said in their report last night that we are not doing. We are not doing enough. They've called for more ambitious emissions reduction targets from Australia. The targets we legislated in this chamber that the Greens supported equate to a two-degree warming on pre-industrial levels. We have seen devastation on the Great Barrier Reef at 1.2 degrees of warming on pre-industrial levels. Imagine what an almost doubling of that trapped heat will do to the Barrier Reef. We are already witnessing this kind of devastation now.</para>
<para>Queensland Premier Steven Miles says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's why my government legislated renewable energy and emissions targets that sets out a cleaner future that will strengthen our economy, create good jobs, and deliver strong climate change action.</para></quote>
<para>Once again, they are completely ignoring the fact that UNESCO was calling for new emissions reduction targets from Australia. It has been said multiple times now that you are not out of the sin-bin, Australian government. You need to do more. The prospect of the outstanding universal values of the World Heritage inscription of the Great Barrier Reef being listed as 'in danger' from climate change is still there if you don't do more. Yet here we have this cynical—and I'm going to call it out here today—bullshit from the government again that somehow we're acting on climate change, when UNESCO and the IUCN are calling for more action. I'm not going to let that go to the keeper. I've been banging this drum, as have my colleagues, like Senator Waters and others, for many, many years now. The Barrier Reef is in danger from climate change unless we act radically and we do it now.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I know you're passionate about the environment, but please refrain from using that word in the future.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>37</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2 standing in my name.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I amend the motion in the terms circulated in the chamber. I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee for inquiry and report by 28 November 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's responses to the wrongful detention of Australian citizens overseas, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) how Australia can improve its policy framework to deter the practice of arbitrary detention for diplomatic leverage ('hostage diplomacy') and increase transparency and public awareness of the regimes which engage in the practice;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Australia's foreign policy responses to regimes that wrongfully detain Australian citizens;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Australia's current processes for categorising and declaring cases of wrongful detention;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the management of cases of wrongful detention by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) communications with and support for families of Australians being wrongfully detained overseas;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) communications with and support for Australians who have been released from wrongful detention; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>37</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That consideration of the business before the Senate on Wednesday, 26 June 2024 be interrupted at approximately 6 pm, but not so as to interrupt a senator speaking, to enable Senator Hodgins-May to make her first speech (of approximately 20 minutes) without any question before the chair.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senate Temporary Orders</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the continuing order of the Senate of 17 October 2018 relating to quarterly updates of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory, be amended as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Paragraph (1), after "not later than", insert "11.30 am on the day"; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Omit paragraph (2), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Once received by the Clerk or the President, documents returned and any correspondence responding to the order shall be deemed to have been presented to the Senate, and publication of the documents is authorised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">For information</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">the amended order will read</inline>:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by not later than 11.30 am on the day 5 calendar months after each:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) 31 March;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) 30 June;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 30 September; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 31 December;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the quarterly update of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Once received by the Clerk or the President, documents returned and any correspondence responding to the order shall be deemed to have been presented to the Senate, and publication of the documents is authorised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) This order is of continuing effect.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cement Australia</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than Thursday, 4 July 2024, advice regarding alternative fuels to be used in Cement Australia's 'Railton Alternative Fuels Transformation' project received by the minister from the independent panel that assessed applications for the most recent round of Powering the Regions funding; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) this order is restricted to advice regarding:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the origins and quantities of wood fibre that will be used as alternative fuels, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) impacts of alternative fuels on the emissions profile of the Railton kiln and its supply chains.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commission of Inquiry into Antisemitism at Australian Universities Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1417" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Commission of Inquiry into Antisemitism at Australian Universities Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to establish a commission of inquiry into antisemitism at Australian universities, and for related purposes. <inline font-style="italic">Commission of Inquiry into Antisemitism at Australian Universities Bill 2024</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard.</inline></para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Today Australia faces its greatest threat to multiculturalism with the emergence of antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In particular, the studied indifference to Jew hatred on our campuses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jewish staff and students are abandoned by those charged with creating a safe place for students to study and for staff to research, teach and work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a tragedy for Australia which unlike almost anywhere else has been welcoming to the Jewish people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From the days of the First Fleet when a dozen Jewish convicts stumbled ashore at Sydney Cove, Jewish people have had the opportunity to thrive free from discrimination and hatred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With that freedom and opportunity, Jewish Australians have contributed to our country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our job in this place is to ensure that all Australians enjoy the right to education free of harassment and intimidation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our job is to ensure that the next generation of Jewish students are not discouraged from entering any field of Australian life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is a particular tragedy about campus antisemitism which seeks to exclude Jews from the intellectual life of the nation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Because Jewish tradition values education as one of the highest virtues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jews are taught to have arguments for the sake of heaven—to arrive at truth through debate and discussion. This is the essence of a university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At their best, universities are life changing places where people get an education and improve their opportunities in life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's where the next generation of leaders are formed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is why it is so important that antisemitism does not take hold. Its why students need to be taught about the evils of antisemitism. That is why it is always important to reject antisemitism however it manifests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That it's not OK to be a bystander.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we are not teaching this to the next generation then we are setting our society on a course for a future based in conspiracy not fact. On othering not personal responsibility. On social discord not social harmony.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's for this reason that addressing antisemitism on campus is so important because what happens on campus today sets the tone for the Australia of tomorrow.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a parent I want my children to have the same educational opportunities I did. But I am concerned about what today's Jewish students are telling me.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today young Jewish Australians who are taking their first steps into the adult world are facing unprecedented levels of antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The next generation of contributors are turning up to university open days, to lectures, to university lawns, and being met with a clear message: Jews are not welcome here.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Enough. We should not accept that in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">History</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The antisemitism we are seeing on Australian campuses is not new. It goes back years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In August 2023—two months before the Hamas terrorist attacks—the Australian Jewish University Experience Survey revealed:</para></quote>
<list>64% of Jewish university students had experienced antisemitism on campus.</list>
<list>57% of Jewish students had hidden the fact they were Jewish.</list>
<list>19% had stayed away from campus because of antisemitism.</list>
<list>When antisemitism occurred 61% who made a complaint were dissatisfied with the outcome.</list>
<quote><para class="block">In 2022, the Member for Macnamama, the Member for Wentworth and I, as co-Chairs of the Parliamentary Friends of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, wrote to Australian universities to ask them to adopt the IHRA definition of antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The IHRA definition of antisemitism should not be controversial. We emphasised that legitimate criticisms of the State of Israel do not amount to antisemitism under the definition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The definition has multipartisan support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unfortunately, only 5 of our 39 universities have signed up.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since October 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And while antisemitism was already a problem before 7 October, since then it is off the charts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have seen encampments, where student chanting 'intifada' and "river to the sea" are deciding who should be allowed access to university buildings based on their religion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And other stories which are deeply troubling.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Like the student living in on-campus accommodation who held a Shabbat dinner for Jewish and non-Jewish students at her college. It had nothing to do with the Israel-Hamas war—it was simply an opportunity to gather for a meal and to share her traditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But the following morning, that student woke up to find Palestinian flags shoved under their door.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At another university, a Jewish student wearing a kippah was walking through campus. He had to walk past a pro-Palestine gathering to get to where he was going. One of the people from the gathering approached him and asked, "do you support the murdering of babies and the genocide in the Middle East?"</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are multiples stories of Jewish students being spat on and taunted with swastikas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's happening to Jewish staff too.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In one incident, an ex-pat Israeli staff members' working area was urinated on and the word "resign" scribbled on their desk.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The message in all these stories is Jews are not welcome here.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's not just students and outside activists propagating this stuff—it's professors and PhDs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have seen academics say Jews don't deserve cultural safety.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And last week we saw another academic deny that the rapes on 7 October even occurred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Hamas deniers are no different than Holocaust deniers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But for academics in places of learning and truth to deny the truth of human testimony and history is to make a mockery of their mission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What we are seeing on Australian university campuses today is the next evolution of a hatred that has endured throughout human history.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The failure of universities</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Long before October 7, universities were failing to take antisemitism seriously and to act to protect Jewish students in the way that they protect other minorities on campus. But now we see:</para></quote>
<list>Vice Chancellors negotiating research contracts with protestors.</list>
<list>University encampments allowed to run and fester.</list>
<list>Universities unwilling and unable to evict professional agitators from the far-Left and people carrying Jihadi flags.</list>
<list>Jewish Students harassed and intimidated in lectures and tutorials.</list>
<list>Student learning and staff teaching disrupted by protestors.</list>
<list>Complaints mechanisms that are mere tick-a-box exercises.</list>
<list>Vice Chancellors implying that hate fuelled protests are just the price Jewish students have to pay for free speech.</list>
<list>And a collective statement from 39 university Chancellors which was so weak it did not even mention the words "jew" or "antisemitism".</list>
<quote><para class="block">I don't believe university leaders are antisemitic. But I do believe that they are wilfully blind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One chilling aspect of university wilful blindness is their failure to acknowledge the antisemitic nature of: "from the river to the sea".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Imagine if a terrorist group in our country committed terrible crimes and people started chanting: "From the Indian Ocean to the Pacific, Australia will be free of…" and insert the name of the religion, the political affiliation, the sexuality or any aspect of identity that terrorists might want to eradicate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's what the phrase "from the river to the sea" means.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's a statement of intent to violently annihilate Jewish people from the land of Israel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From the river to the sea is a line that sends a chill because it's spoken by murderers and parroted by people who know no better.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But the Vice Chancellors of our universities do know better—and that's why their complicity is such a problem.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is why we need a judicial inquiry into their systemic failures on this issue.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need a judicial inquiry</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill provides for the establishment of a Commission of inquiry with Royal Commission powers led by a current or former Judge to inquire into antisemitism on university campuses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The inquiry will examine incidents of antisemitic activity on campus both before and after 7 October 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will consider whether the response of university leaders, regulators, representative organisations and others has been adequate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Among other the things, it will examine whether the universities adequately define and recognise the modern manifestations of antisemitism and whether they have put in place appropriate policy responses to prevent, reject and deal with it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will examine university policies and their enforcement including complaints handling and disciplinary policies, security arrangements and university powers to expel people from campus for antisemitic activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will examine what steps universities are taking to ensure course materials and what is delivered during lectures and tutorials do not include antisemitic content.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it will make recommendations on institution specific and sector wide policy, regulatory and legislative changes including education programs, disciplinary sanctions, and ministerial intervention.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill and its powers are based on the Bill which established the 2007 Equine Influenza Inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A judicial Inquiry is crucial to ensure that the rise of antisemitism on campus in Australia can be effectively investigated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A judicial inquiry is the most authoritative form of inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Led by an independent, respected jurist with full investigatory powers, assisted by skilled cross-examiners, the inquiry could hear evidence confidentially without witnesses fearing reprisals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Such an inquiry provides the best chance to ensure that antisemitism on campus—a long running cultural problem which is a serious concern for the social cohesion of Australia—is properly addressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's proposal for an inquiry by the Australian Human Rights Commission into various forms of racism on campus is woefully inadequate. It has neither the independence, nor the powers, or personnel to deal with these matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The AHRC has proven itself to be unready and unwilling to respond to antisemitism in Australia despite the 738% rise in antisemitic incidents since October 7. The AHRC has sat on its hands or worse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jewish Australians simply do not have faith in an inquiry led by the AHRC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill by contrast has the support of the Jewish community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is tempting to think of antisemitism as the domain of the uneducated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But history tells us that is not the case. History tells us that antisemitism also lives in the minds of society's best educated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">More than half of the people who attended the Wannsee Conference that developed the Final Solution were either doctors or had PhDs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When antisemitism first came to the most cultured and sophisticated country in Europe it came not in a flood but in a trickle.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This ideology only took hold when people remained silent, preferring their comforts rather than defending the freedoms of a minority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is part of ensuring we never get to that point.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was Martin Luther King who said "in the end we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As Peter Dutton said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Whenever and wherever the forces of antisemitism are on the march, there is a need for moral courage and moral clarity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I call on the Government to show moral courage and clarity by adopting the Bill and allowing it to be brought on for debate.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Housing and Homelessness Plan Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1416" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Housing and Homelessness Plan Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to require the preparation of a National Housing and Homelessness Plan, and for related purposes. <inline font-style="italic">National Housing and Homelessness Plan Bill 2024</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">We stand at a pivotal point in Australian history, grappling with a housing crisis that is impacting all aspects of our society. Economist Alan Kohler and numerous other experts agree: Australia's housing system is in a disastrous predicament. We have some of the world's most expensive housing, effectively locking more and more young people out of home ownership. Rising rental stress is pushing more renters into poverty, and homelessness is increasing, with growing numbers sleeping in their cars or living in tents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These issues are not just statistics; they represent real people and families. Consider the women escaping domestic violence who must camp out at already full refuges because there are no affordable rental options. Think of those facing steep housing cost hikes because rent restrictions on their government-subsidised affordable rental home are expiring. Picture the young adults seeing their hopes of home ownership fade as property prices continue to outpace wages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our underperforming housing system isn't only a concern for those directly affected. The damaging impacts on growth and productivity make us all poorer. Over-expensive housing means Australia has one of the highest household debt rates in the world. This debt is mainly sunk into housing—an unproductive asset. Investment that could and should be creating more jobs and prosperity is instead tied up in real estate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Many of our housing problems have escalated in the past couple of years, made worse by policy mistakes like the former government's HomeBuilder program. But housing stresses are hardly new for Australia. They've been building not just for years, but for decades.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is obviously a complex area and there is no single solution or silver bullet. In a complex system, some solutions can have unintended consequences that may end up causing bigger problems than they solve. Only by pulling all the right policy levers in a coordinated way can we possibly address the problem. That's why housing is one of those areas where a strategic approach to policy making is desperately needed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the Constitution, state and territory governments have direct responsibility for housing services and development. But it is the Commonwealth Government that retains control over key housing-related powers, including tax, social security, and migration. Only a national plan led by the Commonwealth can commit to actions related to these powers. Only the Commonwealth can coordinate nationally consistent approaches to housing regulation and funding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This would not eliminate the need for complementary strategies at the state and territory level to reflect the diversity of housing policy challenges and opportunities across Australia. Rather, it sets out the national priorities that such documents should address.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government has pledged to develop a National Housing and Homelessness Plan and has been progressing this. But they declined to embed the Plan in law. Doing so would enhance its standing and durability. We must lock in the responsibility of the national government to maintain a sustained interest in Australia's housing future. The country can't afford to continue with the erratic level of engagement we've seen over recent decades. That's why we need legislation that will continue to bind future governments, irrespective of political complexion and priorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The debate on this Bill can enable Parliament to strengthen the Plan by defining its scope and ambition, as well as by identifying the housing policy challenges it needs to address. Another reason for tabling this Bill is my concern about the way the Government's Plan development process has been unfolding over the past year or so. It has been a low-profile exercise, based on an official Issues Paper that was highly inadequate in the scope and depth of its analysis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill takes its legal force from the Commonwealth Government's constitutional authority on external affairs. It will give effect to our international obligation to ensure access to adequate housing as a human right. This dates back to an international treaty Australia signed in 1966, the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR). There are precedents for this approach to legislating on housing at the Commonwealth level.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Numerous other OECD countries have formal national housing and/or homelessness strategies. The most directly relevant of these is Canada, which legislated its first-ever National Housing Strategy in 2019. The particular relevance of the Canadian example is that it involves a federal state with many governmental similarities to Australia. That's why the Australian legislation is directly influenced by the Canadian model.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Especially important aspects of Canada's approach that have inspired our own Bill are the Canadian oversight and accountability dimensions. The Australian Act will therefore create a National Housing Consumer Council and a National Housing and Homelessness Advocate. The Council will advise the Minister on the Plan's effectiveness from the perspective of tenants and homebuyers. This is an important counterweight to the powerful influence wielded by housing industry interests in Australia. The Advocate will monitor the Plan's implementation and conduct reviews of systemic housing issues to inform Plan evolution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also designates Housing Australia as the lead agency for assisting the Minister in developing, implementing, and maintaining the Plan. This reflects the fact that there is no department of housing in the Commonwealth Government's administrative structure. It is therefore logical to task these Plan-related functions with the specialist agency already established in this area. Again, as a specialist national agency supporting housing policymaking, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) provides a relevant example for Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Act will provide a framework for the Plan, rather than the detail of its content. It is appropriate for that content to be developed within this framework by competent officials. That must be informed by consultation with interest groups, technical experts, and the public at large. The current government has already progressed a process of this kind, although only in a relatively low-profile way and, I would argue, without adequate underlying analysis of the problems the Plan should seek to address.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill specifies Plan objectives as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Ensuring everyone in Australia has an adequate home</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Preventing and ending homelessness</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Ensuring the social housing system meets needs and drives wider housing system performance</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. Improving choice in the housing system</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. Improving housing quality</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Improving housing affordability</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7. Improving housing supply</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8. Improving the contribution of the housing system to wider economic performance</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9. Improving the ability of people with disability to live in the community, with choices equal to others</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10. Involving Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples in developing, determining, and administering housing programs affecting them</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These goals have been inspired by research published last year by the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute. They reflect what the researchers identified as housing policy objectives on which there is a high degree of expert and public consensus. The proposed goals also reflect expert consensus views on the range of housing problems currently affecting Australia, such as insufficient housing consumer choice and unsatisfactory housing energy performance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The suggested objectives also indicate the Plan's intended scope; for example, addressing poor housing conditions as well as housing shortage and unaffordability. A legislated National Housing and Homelessness Plan cannot guarantee that Australia will squarely face up to its housing problems. It cannot ensure that resulting measures will decisively moderate the housing stress affecting growing numbers of Australians. But I believe it is an essential pre-condition for the more equitable and functional housing system the country badly needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our housing system is in crisis, impacting individuals and families across Australia. The damaging effects on growth and productivity affect us all. Only a coordinated national plan, embedded in law, can address the complex and multifaceted nature of this crisis. The legislation I propose will ensure that we take a strategic and sustained approach to housing policy, benefiting current and future generations of Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I thank the Member for North Sydney, Kylea Tink, for moving this Bill in the House of Representatives, and the Member for Indi, Dr. Helen Haines, for seconding it. I'd also like to thank Professor Hal Pawson and Dr. Chris Martin for their work and input into this Bill, as well as the 117 individuals and organizations, including leading academics, industry experts, economists, former politicians from both sides of politics, peak bodies, and advocates who have signed an open letter calling on the Housing Minister to legislate such a plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19 Response Commission of Inquiry Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1418" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">COVID-19 Response Commission of Inquiry Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>43</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senators Rennick, Antic, Roberts, Babet and O'Sullivan, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to establish a commission of inquiry into Australia's response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>43</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The last few years have seen the biggest restrictions on the freedoms of Australians outside of wartime. In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, Australian governments have locked people in their homes, prevented them seeing their loved ones in their final moments, forced some to take medical treatments against their wishes and closed small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ameliorate the economic impact of these harsh measures, governments spent more than $300 billion. The massive fiscal expansion has played a role in causing an inflation breakout that continues to hurt the standard of living of most Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It seems obvious that a full and proper inquiry should be conducted into government policies of this scale and cost. Yet, to date, the Australian Government has refused to establish a proper and independent inquiry into the COVID-19 pandemic.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is despite the Prime Minister promising Australians before the election that he would establish a COVID-19 inquiry "through a measure like a royal commission." The "Clayton's inquiry" that the Prime Minister has established is an insult to all of the Australians who suffered from the harsh COVID-19 measures that state and federal governments took.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Prime Minister's inquiry is not even looking into the actions of State and Territory Governments even though the harshest of COVID-19 measures, such as lockdowns and most vaccine mandates, were decisions taken by these governments. 'Actions taken unilaterally by state and territory governments' have been explicitly excluded from the scope of his inquiry.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some of the Prime Minister's appointments to the review panel can hardly be described as "independent" either. For example, one inquiry panel member, Angela Jackson, a former deputy Chief-of-staff to former Labor Finance Minister Lindsay Tanner, in July 2021 said that Victoria needed "a hard lockdown and a dose of luck to get through this".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The conduct of the Prime Minister's inquiry also raises serious questions about whether it is serious. Despite being established last September; all the inquiry panel has done so far has accepted submissions and held some "closed door" invitation only 'key stakeholder' and 'focus group' roundtables. There have been no public hearings, no draft report and hardly any publicity. There is just three months until this inquiry is due to report in September yet there is no indication that it will deliver the proper accountability to government officials that the Australian people deserve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We really should not need to go to the length of passing a Bill like this to establish a proper inquiry because it is so obvious that our government should do this by the stroke of a pen. Yet given our government seems to want to hide from accountability we have taken the step to introduce this Bill so that the Senate, and the Parliament, can do its job and hold the Executive Government to account.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Parliament cannot establish a Royal Commission because only the Executive government can empower the "Royal" insignia towards an inquiry. However, the Parliament can establish a "Commission of Inquiry" with all the same powers and independence of a Royal Commission, and this is what this Bill would do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is based on previous efforts such as those to establish a Commission of Inquiry into the banks in recent years. When it became obvious that the proposed Commission of Inquiry into the banks would pass the Parliament, the then Turnbull Government established its own Royal Commission. We would welcome the Government taking the same action in response to this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As an aside, this experience raises the question—why is the Australian Government happy to force an inquiry into the actions of third parties like the banks, but not an inquiry into its own actions which have been even more impactful on our economic and social life? This double standard only further erodes the collapsing trust that Australians have in their government institutions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill builds on the excellent work of the Senate inquiry into the terms of reference for a COVID-19 Royal Commission. We want to thank Senator Scarr for his involvement in this inquiry and the substantive report that he helped write. We commend other senators for their persistence in building support for the inquiry in the first place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That inquiry clearly demonstrated the widespread support for the establishment of a COVID-19 royal commission. Of the 559 submissions received by the committee, only three did not support it. This bill incorporates the extensive terms or reference proposed by the committee in the final report of that inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission of Inquiry would be tasked with investigating the response of the Commonwealth, State and Territory Governments. The Commission's powers to summon witnesses from State Governments may be limited by restrictions on the Commonwealth's powers but the Bill creates the ability for the States to confer powers on the Commission if they so choose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the inquiry established by this Bill will mostly look at decisions made in the past, holding the inquiry is urgent because there are some still affected by COVID-19 decisions in the present, and we must learn the lessons of the last pandemic in case one occurs in the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unbelievably some states continue to maintain vaccine mandates. For example, some firefighters in Victoria still cannot return their jobs because they have not got two vaccines and a booster.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Many people lost their livelihoods through the imposition of vaccine mandates. The Supreme Court of Queensland recently found that the manner in which vaccine mandates were imposed on police officers and health workers breached Queensland's Human Rights Act. Some people continue to be restricted from jobs (such as firefighters in Victoria) due to continuing vaccine mandates. These workers are now seeking compensation for the unlawful mandates which cost them their jobs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other Australians continue to live with the fallout of the pandemic response. At least part of the reason for elevated inflation is due to the massive fiscal stimulus unleashed during the pandemic.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, Australia has recorded more than 20,000 extra (non-COVID related) deaths since the beginning of the pandemic. It is still unclear why our fatality rate has remained at historically high levels, but many have put the blame on the lingering impacts of medical restrictions during the pandemic, the health impacts of social isolation and side effects from coronavirus vaccines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is obvious that there should be a deep and comprehensive inquiry into the management of the COVID-19 pandemic. The Prime Minister has established an inquiry, but it is limited in scope, for example it is not looking at the response of State or Territory Governments, even though it was these governments that imposed the most stringent restrictions on civil liberties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We propose this Bill in the spirit of forgiveness and understanding. We understand the anger that many feel about the decisions that upturned their lives and, in some cases, destroyed their lives. However, to put our society back together we must confront the difficult task to forgive mistakes. This does not absolve officials from accountability. If people broke the law in the response to the pandemic, then those officials should be accountable under the law. This Commission of Inquiry would have the powers to refer such matters to the appropriate authorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Equally, there is a need for the decision makers to genuinely subject themselves to examination and be willing to admit when mistakes were made. We all made mistakes of judgement. Early in the pandemic some of us supported lockdown measures that were too harsh. Some of us got the vaccine, a decision we may now regret given that we know that the vaccine was not very effective and caused many severe side effects, including death for some.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The officials who made decisions in response to the pandemic were all human and it is not surprising or shocking that mistakes were made. We exacerbate the harm caused by these mistakes, however, if we are not willing to admit error.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also seems clear that some officials lied, even if well-intentioned, about some of the measures in the pandemic. For example, many decisions (such as mask mandates) were made on flimsy "behavioural science" grounds to maximise compliance with broader restrictions rather than their merit per se. The wisdom of knowingly telling lies to your own people, even if it does deliver a short-term gain, deserves a proper examination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia now faces another pandemic of mistrust. Fewer Australians now trust medical or government officials. The take up rate of the flu vaccines is at historic lows. Trust will not be restored by governments hiding from accountability and hoping people forget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need a proper Commission of Inquiry to close what has been a painful period for many during the pandemic. Such an inquiry offers the only hope that we can heal these wounds and restore the harmonious and high trust society that Australia enjoyed before the pandemic.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>45</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>45</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that yesterday evening at 6.30 pm a division was called on the closure motion moved by Senator Watt relating to a proposed reference to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee. I understand that it suits the convenience of the Senate to hold that division now. For the sake of clarity, if the closure is not agreed to, the motion will be called on again for debate at item 20 of today's order of business.</para>
<para>I will put the question. The question is that the closure motion, as moved by Senator Watt, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:45]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given that closure was agreed, the question now is that the motion proposing a reference to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee, moved by Senators Colbeck and Cadell, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:49]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>46</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A letter has been received from Senator O'Sullivan:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the Albanese Government all aspects of energy generation are off track, with Labor's 82 per cent renewables by 2030 target way behind schedule and running at less than one third of the pace required last year, while gas prices are spiking following the energy regulators risk notice warning of gas shortages impacting Australians right throughout winter.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock in line with informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under the Albanese government all aspects of energy generation are off track, with Labor's target of 82 per cent renewables by 2030 way behind schedule and running at less than one-third of the pace required last year, while gas prices are spiking following the energy regulator's risk notice warning of gas shortages impacting Australians right throughout winter. This is the matter that we are considering right now and that I bring before the Senate for consideration. This is an urgent matter because Australians are facing higher prices and we have an energy grid that is at risk of failure.</para>
<para>Yesterday in question time the Prime Minister refused to be upfront with the Australian people in relation to the costs of Labor's renewable-only rollout and, here in the Senate, Senator Wong and Minister Gallagher were no better. We asked genuine questions, questions that deserved answers, and we got nothing. They avoided answering the questions, particularly when it came to the cost of their program and the cost of their rollout. We know that it is unaffordable and that those costs are being passed on to the Australian consumer, to energy users across the country. It doesn't matter whether it's a household or a business. If it's a business, those costs are passed on to every single Australian. When asked a very simple, straightforward question, the government did what they always do. They avoided responsibility and blamed the opposition. You would think that for a simple question like, 'What is the total system cost of achieving the Anthony Albanese Labor government's 82 per cent renewable energy target by 2030?' you would get a simple answer. It's a simple question; we should get a straightforward answer. But we didn't. The Australian people deserve better. They should be getting straightforward answers, but they're not.</para>
<para>Princeton University senior research scientist Dr Chris Greig had a simple, straightforward answer. He estimated in his report that the capital cost of the energy transition following a similar pathway to the government's current plan would be between $1.3 trillion and $1.5 trillion. This is from a senior research scientist at Princeton University. This is serious. It's not a flimsy report. It's not someone you should not take seriously; this is someone who should be taken seriously—a cost of $1.3 to $1.5 trillion. And, as I said, those costs simply get passed on to Australian consumers. That's why Australians are paying more.</para>
<para>The Albanese government and Mr Albanese himself took to the last election a promise that energy bills would be reduced by $275. He said it nearly 100 times throughout the election campaign. But have you seen that reduction? Of course you haven't. In fact, we've seen energy bills go up in some markets by over $1,000. Now they've put in some subsidies that can be applied to your bill, but that's not the long-term structural change that is needed.</para>
<para>Mr Dutton has a plan that he's put forward to see energy prices reduce. We're not going to rush to see coal and coal-fired power stations removed from the market. We're not going to rush to see this transition to a renewables-only approach. No: we want to see a balanced approach, particularly where gas becomes a dominant generator of electricity. But we need to have exploration. We need to have new gasfields, particularly here on the east coast. AEMO have said we'll be in some serious trouble if new gas is not provided into the market. If the winter continues to be as cold as it's been, we're going to see a reduction and we're possibly even going to see a limitation of power in this market. This is of great concern to Australians.</para>
<para>This government is off track. In fact, it's worse than that: the train has not even left the station. They're hopeless. Bring on the election as soon as we can so we can deal with this lot over here.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a pleasure to follow Senator O'Sullivan, who made an interesting contribution. I saw an obsession with costing our policies, yet they didn't cost their own policies that they released last week—well, I wouldn't quite call it 'policy'; I'd call it a bit of a half-baked press conference where they announced support for nuclear power. We know that the history of nuclear power is that it is more expensive. It does take an enormous amount of time to deliver, and that is why what is coming from those opposite is so dangerous. I'm not someone who is philosophically opposed to nuclear power, but I am opposed to economic vandalism, and what was announced last week by the opposition actually resembles economic vandalism, and that is why it is so dangerous for the Australian community.</para>
<para>We were elected to government on a platform to actually take action, to implement a renewables plan, to work constructively with states and territories. We saw from those opposite 10 years of delay and denial, and the damage that did. That's what we've been overcoming since we came to government. We've been working really hard to do that, and our record points to that. On that record, I should start with the $300 off power bills for every household that will begin in six days time. We know that energy bills are challenging for so many families out there, which is why it's important that the government has acted again in this budget.</para>
<para>But our reliable renewables plan is supported by experts and is based on evidence from the CSIRO and AEMO that renewable firm batteries and pumped hydro is actually the lowest-cost plan to build new capacity into the grid. That is why we are pursuing it. Since the election our plan has delivered a 25 per cent increase in renewables in the grid, a record investment in batteries and storage, approval for more than 50 renewable projects around the country, and 280 gigawatts of generation and storage projects in the pipeline—4.5 times the capacity of the grid today. As I travel around—being the Assistant Minister for Regional Development, I spend a lot of time in regional areas—I see the opportunity these projects are providing to so many communities across the country and also, importantly, the support and confidence it is giving those communities so that they know they can have a brighter future.</para>
<para>The week after the budget the Treasurer and I were in Gladstone and were talking about a hydrogen project there that will be powered by renewable energy. So, we know that these things already happening, that it's generating jobs; it's generating investment. All that the plan from those opposite is going to do is put those things in doubt. It's going to set them back. It's going to make those businesses second guess whether they have the confidence to go through with this. You have to remember their record in government—the 22 policies. They spent $3 million on a study into a coal-fired power station in Collinsville. Where is the study? Senator McDonald, do you know where the study is? We never saw the study. That shows you what their priority was in government. They don't actually believe in climate change; they don't actually believe in renewable energy. They will do anything they can to stop and delay and not let the best and cheapest form of technology be implemented. That's the damage it's done.  </para>
<para>You only have to look at the evidence since they made the announcement last week. This is the Nationals leading the Liberals. Today we heard Senator Canavan say that he thinks they should roll back and not support net zero. That is at the heart of their policy. They don't want to see the plan we have implemented, that has the support of experts, and that should be dealt with in a bipartisan manner. They want to take us back to the Dark Ages, to the dark old days of the coalition government, when they did nothing. They had culture wars with the states. They didn't work constructively with them, and our country was worse off as a result. What I want to say to the Australian people is that, since we got elected, we've gone about implementing a plan, working constructively with states and territories, and we are making progress. We're seeing more renewable investment. We're seeing industry adapt and ensure they can get the renewable capacity they need to support their industry and business, and we're working constructively with states and territories to deliver on that.</para>
<para>There will be a clear contrast at this election between a government that has a track record of investing in renewables and doing what it can to alleviate the pressure on household power bills and those opposite who don't want to see any progress made on renewables and who want to take us back to the dark old days and do nothing about capacity for 15 years, let alone abandon the net zero ambitions of this country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> I'm not surprised that this MPI has been brought to this chamber by Senator O'Sullivan today. What we heard this morning from Minister King was that gas isn't making it to the eastern seaboard because the pipes aren't there, the infrastructure is not there. No-one in the Australian public should that that's true. Eighty per cent of the gas from this country goes overseas for export.</para>
<para>In my home state of Western Australia—and Senator O'Sullivan should know this—the Western Australian parliament have looked into the domestic gas arrangement from the Burrup Peninsula on behalf of Woodside. They're not even fulfilling the 15 per cent they're supposed to under that agreement without any consequences. So they're pumping it offshore, fracking and sending it overseas. They're selling it on, in fact. When we sell it to the Japanese, they're selling our gas to other countries. While we're in a cost-of-living crisis and Australians are doing it tough, the gas cartels of this country are rubbing their hands together. In fact, Minister King, the Minister for Resources, was asked this morning, 'Are you going to pull the trigger on the mechanism that this government created not to put Australians in hardship?' They're having a conversation, and it's a bit of a smokescreen about nuclear.</para>
<para>Nuclear is a pipeline dream. The thing about that is that it's such a serious conversation we should be having about nuclear because it's about safety in Australian communities, in the seven communities that they've picked off the map and said, 'We'll go there, and we'll go there for nuclear reactors.' It's the most expensive form of energy. It is not going to help Australians tomorrow today who are doing it hard with their electricity bills. It is not. The 82 per cent renewable target, yes, great—43 per cent by 2030—but they're still opening up offshore gas fields. Minister King and Minister Plibersek are still opening gas fields and approving coalmines in this country. This wreck and delay strategy is what's wearing absolutely thin. It's wearing thin for Australians that are doing it hard. And if the two majors cared about that, they wouldn't be on a unity ticket right now creating this smoke screen that is leading to the price hikes in this country and the energy shortage. It's time to join the 21st century.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is an incredibly important topic and I thank Senator O'Sullivan for bringing this matter to the Senate for debate. Despite the government coming to the last election promising a reduction in power prices, Australian consumers—whether they be households or businesses—have seen nothing but skyrocketing prices. There are jobs and businesses leaving our shores because they can no longer afford the cost of doing business in this country. I'm not just telling you that; we're seeing it from public companies who are making those announcements; we're seeing an increase in the number of businesses that are struggling and in liquidation numbers; and we're seeing it with the number of businesses and households that are just saying they can't afford these bills.</para>
<para>Of course, it started in Queensland, the state that had the lowest energy prices thanks to the introduction of coal-fired power stations a long time ago, when the Labor government of the day introduced a 45c-per-kilowatt subsidy for putting solar panels on your roof. Every public servant in town who heard about it had them on their roof. That was terrific. A lot of farmers put them out in their fields. But what it did is increase a billion dollars a year to the costs in Queensland. That had already started happening. We've seen more renewables rolled out, but what we've also seen is increasing prices.</para>
<para>It is time that the government came clean that every time they say renewables are the cheapest source of electricity, that is a lie, because they never factor in transmission lines. They never factor in the terrible price to communities. When I was in Rockhampton the other day, I had landholders telling me of the confidentiality agreements they have to sign with offshore, big, international, foreign-owned wind farm proponents—the very people who will provide no manufacturing jobs in Australia because all the wind turbines are manufactured offshore, as are the solar panels. There are no manufacturing jobs here. There are no royalties coming here from electricity generation. There is no investment. Instead, it's dividing local communities into those who have—those with the wind farms on their properties—and those who have not—those living right next door but get all the downside and the impact on their roads. That is the government's mantra—to destroy regional communities without a care, apart from continuing to talk about how renewable energy will bring down prices.</para>
<para>More urgent is the terrible intervention into the gas market. This government, nearly two years ago, intervened in our gas market so dramatically that we have seen investment fleeing Australia. That's not just investment into big projects—it's not big business. It's into the small businesses regionally. It's into the well-paid jobs that Australians are missing out on. It's the royalties and company taxes that the Australia of the future will miss out on. This is such economic irresponsibility that it's hard to know where to begin. If you look at Australia's balance sheet, it is driven by coal, iron ore and gas, and the only thing that changes is that order. And when you start ripping the legs out from underneath gas, you tell coal that they're surplus to requirements, and who knows what's next for iron ore, what you do is damage Australia's balance sheet, future cash flow, and ability to pay for schools and roads and hospitals and all the things that we enjoy in this country. That is the direct result of this crazy mishandling of energy policy that is threatening reliability and threatening costs.</para>
<para>I love that every time the government talks about their payment to help with electricity bills, they are robbing Peter to pay Paul. They are putting their hand into your pocket, taking out some of your hard-earned tax dollars, and giving it back to everybody else in the community. There's no checking of whether you deserve it, whether you're struggling, or whether you're somebody who owns multiple homes. No, they're just handing it to everybody because there is no fiscal responsibility. It's just: create a problem and then rob it from Peter to pay Paul to try to solve it.</para>
<para>So you're absolutely right, Senator Chisholm: there is going to be a clear contrast at the next election. There's going to be a contrast between the government that is driving us up onto the rocks and a government that actually has a plan, which is in line with other major economies in the world, to reduce emissions and have reliable, affordable electricity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For those watching at home, we're debating a motion the Liberals-Nationals coalition introduced proposing a matter of public importance. The motion complains that, 'Labor's 82 per cent renewables by 2030 target is way behind schedule.' I have two responses to that: 'Who cares!' and 'Good!' Renewables are the collection of wind, solar, hydrogen, battery, pumped hydro and other scams that parasitic billionaires own and pump up with billions more in taxpayer subsidies. Every new solar panel and every new wind turbine installed represents another increase in Australians' power bills.</para>
<para>I commend the Liberals and Nationals for further opening the debate on nuclear, which One Nation has always advocated. I cannot abide, though, the insistence that we do nuclear so that we can meet net zero targets. Net zero is economic suicide, human catastrophe and environmental disaster. The only thing that can truly bring Australian power bills down is coal and, in North Queensland, hydro. To comply with net zero, the coalition's proposal is to forcibly acquire coal-fired power stations, shut them down and replace them with nuclear. We don't need to end coal to do nuclear. We can do both. Why would we stop using coal here while we ship hundreds of millions of tonnes of coal to China and other countries every year. The United Nations World Economic Forum net zero target: that's why. A foreign, unelected bureaucratic organisation is telling Australians what we can and can't do.</para>
<para>There's only one solution: tell the foreign, unelected organisations and their billionaire donors, like Bill Gates, to bugger off. Australia is one of the most resource-rich countries in the world. We should be using every bit of these resources right here for the benefit of Australians and especially for getting back to being the source of the world's cheapest electricity. Put Australians first.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not sure about the billionaires in Tasmania with hydro and renewables; the last time I looked, that wasn't the case. Putting that to one side, what this debate is really about is the fantasy about the nuclear 'policy'—the nuclear fantasy from those opposite. As we saw, the nuclear plan from those opposite is more of a budget black hole than it is a policy, because it actually turns around and takes additional costs from every Australian's pocket. They have to turn around and have money taken out: $1,000 extra per week. That's the increase in their tax bills as a result of the energy fiasco on the 23rd energy policy from those opposite. What's that energy policy actually based on? It's based on the fact that they can't reach agreement in their own caucus. It's about lying to the Australian public because they're trying to maintain their own cohesion whilst turning around and still arguing about the policy being incorrect. So not only are they not giving us answers but they haven't got a consistent position across their party.</para>
<para>The fact is that they've got person after person coming forward and saying that this policy is a crock. We've seen frontbencher after frontbencher and member of parliament after member of parliament contradicting each other. We saw it in the statement that 'the local community is going to be consulted'. The deputy leader was then contradicted by the Leader of the Nationals, because the local public where these reactors are going to be placed are not going to be consulted. We then look at the arguments put forward, and some of the decisions made, by the likes of the opposition leader in the Senate, Senator Birmingham. The opposition leader—Mr Dutton's own frontbencher—Senator Birmingham, spoke in favour of renewables, saying that they've become more cost competitive in their own right and are an important part of the mix. But then we're going to hear person after person get up here and make contradictory arguments. It is that simple.</para>
<para>They haven't got their act together, and if this policy they're putting forward, the $600 billion, does go forward—I used to watch that show called <inline font-style="italic">The Six Million Dollar Man</inline>—he'll be the $600 billion man. But, unlike <inline font-style="italic">The Six Million Dollar Man</inline>, it's not going to be entertaining because everyone will be paying more for their energy. They're going to be putting on more costs and putting more on their bills. There will be more consequences for families that are trying to deal with the cost of living.</para>
<para>Then there is this other fantasy that says that workers who have been working in coal-fired electricity generating facilities are going to somehow miraculously be moved over to these new facilities run by nuclear energy. The fact is that those workers need support now, because the coal industry is already moving out and coal-fired power stations are already getting closed down. Those workers don't need to wait till 2035, under the best-case scenario, not the reality scenario. Even those opposite admit that it'll be 2035.</para>
<para>So they've already decided that they're going to abandon communities to higher prices, no job transition and no dealing with the reality of climate change so that they can bring every sort of crazy idea that exists within their caucus and make them all feel at home whilst they actually deliver an economic bombshell to the entire Australian community. It's a bombshell in your home budget, it's a bombshell in your business budget and it's a bombshell across the Australian economy. It's the black hole of policies, where this nuclear money will just get ploughed in and ploughed in, and it will come out of the pockets of everybody's in this country.</para>
<para>Quite clearly, the only thing we can see that's more mysterious than these nuclear reactors is Area 51, because they actually aren't telling us what the policy is going to do. They're not telling us what the costs are. They can't quite work out how many nuclear reactors they're going to have and what models of reactors they're going to have on each site. They can't work out what the gigawatts are going to be. They can't work it out. They tell us that they have made the decision to commit every Australian in this country to spending $600 billion, and they still haven't worked out the answers. It's a fantasy.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So many speakers before this have made this a battle between renewables and nuclear. It is not that; it is far more than that. It is about certainty and credibility as we go forward. What we've seen is net zero reduction achievements of zero or 0.2 or nothing over the last two years of this government, which goes to the crux of this matter: they're not doing it; they're not getting on with it.</para>
<para>When we go to Senate estimates and they talk about their 43 per cent renewable target, we hear evidence from their own departments and their own ministers that says their goal is 38 per cent with extensions for another five per cent. Let's look at those extensions. They're the energy emissions bill, which was reduced, so that's actually not going to achieve what they want. Then there's the Safeguard Mechanism. That's not going to achieve what they want. And they're rolling out power for the 38 per cent more slowly than they ever thought possible. So their policy is not working. The results are on the scoreboard. There is very little reduction in emissions, and the progress towards other energy is going ever more slowly.</para>
<para>Mums and dads at home want to have certainty—short of putting their kids in hamster wheels to power the household. They know that, when they flick the light on, they'll have it there. They want to keep the fridge on to keep the food good. Small businesses need to know that they'll be able to keep operating and that they'll have the power to continue their businesses. Manufacturing needs certainty. What has caused that certainty to fail? It is the policies of this government.</para>
<para>When you look at the renewables rollout, it is being rushed, it is hodgepodge and it is amateurish. That sums up so many actions of this government. But when we've asked have a committee to look at how we can do the renewables rollout better—which we've done 10 times here—the answer has always been no. If we were able to look at better sites, better methods for landholders and better ways to roll out transmission lines, that would give the certainty we want. But all we hear from the other side is nuclear versus renewables. They all have a place in creating certainty for mums and dads here. Everything has a place in creating the energy we need.</para>
<para>Primarily, we want to do it as cleanly as possible and as cheaply as possible—we owe that to the Australian people—but we need that certainty, and this plan is failing. The energy rollout under Labor is failing, because they rush to communities and don't consult properly, so there are legal challenges and other impediments. There are community protests. We're seeing that in the Illawarra and in Port Stephens.</para>
<para>The government talk about nuclear not being viable. I don't want to make this one thing, but there are 440 nuclear plants in the world—including some dodgy Russian ones. Let's be honest about that, but they exist. When the government talk about green hydrogen production facilities, there are none. When they talk about floating substations for floating offshore wind, there are none—zero, an integer less than one. So the only hypothetical things we are talking about are the energy sources in Labor's policy. They want to build approximately 200 floating offshore wind constructions off the Illawarra and Port Stephens, on one site. In the world, there are fewer than 20. Five of them are powering gas and fuel rigs off the Scandinavian coast. Five are up in Scotland, at the Hywind facility, and they are averaging $14,000 per megawatt. That is the cost of what we're talking about here. But this government, which has achieved so very little so far, thinks it can do it for five. Forget inflation and all these other things.</para>
<para>So what we're saying is not only that the reduction target is off but that getting to that figure of 82 per cent renewables, the very thing that Senator O'Sullivan is talking about here, is not going to happen. Only one group of people in this building has had the courage to point out this isn't going to happen, and that is the group over on this side, including Senator O'Sullivan and Peter Dutton in the other house. They are saying we aren't going to get there. Labor should come clean and say we are not going to reach 82 per cent renewables by 2030 or get the emission targets by 2030, and the reason is that they are not competent. They have dropped the ball. They are messing around. They're great at saying what they're going to do or what we're going to do, but they aren't good at doing what they're meant to be doing, and the people who will suffer are the mums and dads at home and the employees in businesses that won't have sure power. We all need to get together to run renewables better. We need renewables in the mix, but it has to be done better, and we need to get an energy system that works.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East: Occupied Palestinian Territories</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will now consider the proposal from Senator McKim, which is shown at item 13 on today's Order of Business. The President has received the following letter from Senator McKim:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to recognise the State of Palestine."</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKim, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the Senate to recognise the State of Palestine.</para></quote>
<para>It has been eight long months of Israel's full-blown genocide in Gaza—eight months in which Israel has slaughtered more than 37,000 Palestinians, including 15,000 children, and eight months in which Israel has relentlessly bombed schools, hospitals, ambulances, universities, places of worship and the tents where forcibly displaced Palestinians are taking refuge. Many thousands of Palestinians are missing, buried under the rubble. Nothing has been spared and no-one has been spared. Doctors who are returning from Gaza are calling it hell on earth.</para>
<para>The need for justice for Palestine and the recognition of statehood has never been more urgent, and all Labor, who are in government, have offered are hollow words, tepid statements and expressions of concern, all of which Israel has ignored and will continue to ignore. When it comes to action, the Albanese government have absolutely failed. They have failed to join South Africa's ICJ case against Israel, failed to end the two-way arms trade with Israel, failed to sanction Israel, failed to expel the Israeli ambassador, failed to acknowledge the undeniable reality that what we are witnessing is a genocide—they can't even call it a genocide when it's happening right in front of their eyes—and failed to call for an end to Israel's apartheid and occupation. They have also failed so far to do the bare minimum and join the 147 countries which recognise the State of Palestine.</para>
<para>So today we give them a chance to finally take this bare-minimum first step. Frankly, it is embarrassing and shameful that they haven't done this already. Today I say to every member of the Albanese government in this chamber, and in the other chamber as well: you should be embarrassed that it has come to this. You refused, you voted against, a similar Greens motion in the House just last month, and you should be even more ashamed and embarrassed if you don't vote for this motion today. The Greens are the only party here with a conscience, the only party that gives a damn about Palestinian lives. And we will do all we can to drag the Albanese government kicking and screaming to take real action.</para>
<para>At the heart of recognising Palestinian statehood must be the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to self-determination and to liberation. That includes the right of return for Palestinian refugees, the right to ownership and control over land and resources, and the right to live freely in dignity and equality in their homeland. But it cannot be the only step. The Labor government must take tangible actions which put an end to Israel's never-ending catalogue of human rights abuses, including the imposition of an arms embargo and sanctions. Just this year alone, the Albanese government has sanctioned Russia, Iran, North Korea and Myanmar, and it beggars belief that Israel is getting away scot-free. The occupation has to end. The apartheid wall must fall. The world must do to Israel what it did to South Africa: boycott, divestment and sanction. That broke the back of the racist apartheid regime in South Africa, and we need to do the same in Israel.</para>
<para>Last month, as I said, Labor cowardly voted against a motion similar to the one we're moving here today in the Senate by refusing to recognise Palestinian statehood. In doing so, Labor firmly cemented themselves as an enemy of the Palestinian people and as a traitor to their own party. And now, here we are: they really are trying to water down a very simple, straightforward motion to recognise Palestine as a state—ducking and weaving, trying to move amendments—rather than take a principled position, a position that is actually in their policy platform. You are playing political games while there is a genocide happening.</para>
<para>Labor is trying to escape accountability and to have it both ways: to pretend they care about Palestine when doing nothing for Palestine. And people can see right through it. You're trying to strip down a motion calling for a basic, fundamental act of justice to recognise Palestine. Well, I say to you, Labor: Our motion is clear and simple. We're not changing it. All it does is call on the Senate to recognise the state of Palestine, consistent with your own policy. We're not backing down. We are not going to change our motion. You have to decide whether you want to vote for it or against it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's be clear: the only reason the Senate is considering this motion at present is that it was triggered by the events unfolded since Hamas's barbaric and brutal attacks of 7 October. And frankly, it is shameful that we find ourselves in the position of considering and debating something that Hamas has welcomed and Hamas considers to be an advance on the position since 7 October.</para>
<para>This parliament, and certainly the parties of government, should have maintained the longstanding bipartisan position in relation to a two-state solution—a longstanding clearcut and bipartisan position that set in place clarity and conditions for how and when a two-state solution could be achieved that would enable an enduring and peaceful settlement between Israeli peoples and Palestinian peoples. We should never forget that Hamas, on 7 October, deliberately targeted civilians—the elderly, children, babies, young people at a music concert—and that they continue, to this day, to hold hostages and to hide those hostages amongst Palestinian civilians, placing those Palestinian civilians at even greater risk whilst their leadership hide in tunnels, underground, in a network extensively built with funds that should have instead been used for the advancement of Palestinian peoples. These are the facts that we face—a dangerous terrorist organisation that no country could, should or would live alongside, one sponsored by Iran as part of their plan of disruption around the region and the world—and yet Hamas sees parts of the UN, some governments and certainly political parties like the Greens entertaining their demands or advancing on those demands. It is shameful, and we continue to stand very firmly against this.</para>
<para>I note the amendment that the government has circulated and the correspondence from Senator Wong in relation to that amendment. That amendment is inadequate. It woefully fails to deal with what must clearly be the preconditions for a two-state solution for recognition of a future Palestinian state. That's why the coalition has circulated a further amendment to Senator Wong's proposed amendment. We are clear that, to have recognition of a Palestinian state, there must be recognition by Palestinian representatives and the Palestinian authority of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state. There must be no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian state, and inherent in that is that all hostages must be released. There must be reform of the Palestinian Authority, including major security and governance reforms. There must be agreement and resolution of final status issues, including borders and rights of return, and there must be appropriate security guarantees between parties to ensure peace and security within recognised borders. These are essential preconditions to ensure that recognition and a two-state solution deliver an enduring and lasting peace for the people in Israel and for the Palestinian people. These are also the preconditions that used to be bipartisan, that have been spoken about by the government—some of them still are, even in Senator Wong's letter, and certainly in the United Nations—but all of them are consistent with what had been a long-standing bipartisan commitment to a two-state solution and how it would be achieved.</para>
<para>Our appeal is for the government to come back to what had been a decades-long bipartisan position in Australia to support these preconditions for how and when we could recognise a Palestinian state as part of an enduring two-state solution that provided for peace and the prospect of prosperity and did not reward the likes of Hamas for the evil doings of October 7. Our support for any government consideration of amendments depends upon there being clarity that our amendment would get to be considered.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. The time for debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move an amendment to the motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is not granted.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the Leader of the Government in the Senate and pursuant to contingent notice of motion, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving an amendment to the motion.</para></quote>
<para>We know the conflict in the Middle East is deeply distressing for many Australians, including the many Australians with a connection to the region and loved ones that are directly impacted. The widespread human suffering we are witnessing in Gaza is completely unacceptable. This cannot continue, and the war must end. This devastating crisis demonstrates the need for a political solution to the long-running Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We know that the only way to break the cycle of violence and achieve an enduring peace is through a peace process leading to a two-state solution—a Palestinian state and the state of Israel living side by side in peace and security within internationally recognised borders. Because Israel's long-term security depends on a two-state solution, without it Israel will continue to face the insecurity of not being fully recognised in its region. Because Palestinian self-determination depends on a two-state solution, without it Palestinian's rightful aspiration for justice, prosperity and statehood will not be met.</para>
<para>The world is trying to create momentum towards that. That's why, in the recent vote at the UN General Assembly, 143 countries, including Australia, expressed a wish for progress to lasting peace through a two-state solution. We voted in favour of the resolution because of this government's steadfast commitment to a two-state solution. Unlike some in this place, we have been clear in that throughout. The government has made clear that it will be guided by whether recognition will advance the cause of peace. Like many in the international community, we have been frustrated by the lack of progress towards a two-state solution. And like Canada, Germany, the UK and other partners, Australia no longer sees recognition as only occurring at the end of the process; it could occur as part of a peace process.</para>
<para>A Palestinian state cannot be in a position to threaten Israel's security, which means no role for Hamas. We want to see a reformed Palestinian authority that disavows violence and is ready to engage in a meaningful political process. To that end, the Minister for Foreign Affairs has directed the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to examine ways Australia can support reform of the Palestinian Authority so that it can deliver on the needs of the Palestinian people. We want to see a commitment to peace in how the Palestinian Authority leads its people. The final status of core issues such as Jerusalem and the borders of a future Palestinian state should be defined through direct negotiations.</para>
<para>It is now six months since Australia voted with 152 countries at the United Nations for a ceasefire. We support the comprehensive ceasefire proposal endorsed by the UN Security Council and want to see it fully implemented by both parties. We will continue to work with countries that support the peace process, so that all parties can agree to terms immediately. Any delay will only see more lives lost. Whilst Australia is not a central player, we have a respected voice, and we are using it to advocate for a ceasefire, the protection of civilians, increased humanitarian access and the release of hostages.</para>
<para>We have pressed for these outcomes in persistent and extensive engagement with foreign counterparts, including in the Middle East as well as with partners in Europe, Canada, Japan, the UK, the US and in our region. We have pressed the Netanyahu government directly, as have officials in Canberra and in Israel. We have pressed countries with influence over Hamas to secure the immediate and unconditional release of the remaining hostages, and we have committed $72.5 million to address urgent needs arising from the conflict in Gaza and the protracted refugee crisis in the region. We have been clear in our support and respect for the independence of the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court. We are using our voice and our vote in international forums.</para>
<para>Given the distressing impact of the conflict in the Middle East and here at home, it is my hope that senators will send a clear statement in support of the international efforts. I advance the cause of the two-state solution to adjust an enduring peace, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the closure motion moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:42] <br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>39</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to speak on the suspension motion.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion to suspend standing orders as moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:45]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>39</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Thorpe, I ask you to come to order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're complicit in genocide, every one of you!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Thorpe, this has been a respectful debate; it will remain that way.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, you are being disrespectful. I've asked you to come to order and you will come to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Disrespectful is ignoring the genocide.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Shame on you all!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators there are other opportunities for you to put your position, not now.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amendment as circulated in the chamber:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion add, "as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace".</para></quote>
<para>The Australian government is working with the international community to create momentum for a lasting peace in the form of a two-state solution: a Palestinian state alongside the State of Israel. We know that it is the only way to break the cycle of violence. The momentum is what we saw in the recent vote in the United Nations General Assembly where 143 countries including Australia expressed our aspiration for Palestinian membership of the United Nations. Australia and a number of other countries including Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada have shifted our position so that recognition of a Palestinian state is no longer seen as being at the end of negotiations.</para>
<para>Australia is firmly part of the international effort to see recognition of a state of Palestine as a part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace. It is widely recognised that major security and governance reforms are needed. At the foreign minister's direction, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is examining ways Australia can support reform of the Palestinian Authority so that it can deliver on the needs of the Palestinian people. The government's amendment to this motion reflects the work Australia is contributing in the international community. Given the distressing impact of the conflict in the Middle East and here at home, it is the government's hope that senators will send a clear statement of support to international efforts to advance the cause of the two-state solution and a just and enduring peace.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the coalition, I move the amendment standing in the name of Senator Birmingham to the government amendment for the reasons outlined by Senator Birmingham:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the government amendment be amended as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the government's amendment add: ", once the following preconditions have been met:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">i. recognition by Palestinian representatives and the Palestinian Authority of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish and democratic state;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ii. that there is no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian state;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">iii. reform of the Palestinian Authority is achieved, including major security and governance reforms;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">iv. agreed processes to resolve final status issues including agreed state borders and rights of return; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">v. appropriate security guarantees between parties to ensure peace and security within recognised borders."</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to speak to the opposition's amendment. The State of Israel continues to deny Palestinians of the right to self-determination and continues to dispossess them of their land. This injustice must be rectified in ways that allow both Palestinians and Israelis to live in peace, security and equality and to exercise self-determination as described by the UN Charter. Self-determination is central here. True self-determination must be supported by the Australian government and by this parliament for Palestinian peoples. Self-determination means you do not prescribe the end point and conclusion of the self-determined process.</para>
<para>We must recognise the reality that the actions of the State of Israel, the actions of its many governments, have systematically worked to render a two-state solution unachievable. We must have an Australian government which does recognise Palestinian statehood and we must have a government that supports the self-determination of Palestinian peoples. We must do so in a framework that enables that self-determination to be genuine and authentic. We must have an Australian government and a parliament that is willing to recognise that the actions of the State of Israel, both in the invasion of Gaza and before the invasion of Gaza, have continued to perpetuate a deep and profound violation of the rights of Palestinian peoples. We must have an Australian government willing to condemn and reject all forms of violence, especially against civilians, whether it's perpetrated by states, organisations or individuals, and it must be able to do that while recognising the rights of Palestinian people to resist Israeli occupation in accordance with international law. We must have an Australian government that is able to oppose all forms of racism, religious or cultural intolerance, and discrimination in Australia and internationally while rejecting the suggestion that any criticism of the State of Israel or its policies inherently constitutes antisemitism, when that in itself is an antisemitic idea.</para>
<para>We must have peace and justice for Palestinian peoples. That is what we here in the Greens, with like-minded members on the crossbench, will continue to work in solidarity with Palestinian peoples to achieve.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Steel-John. I advise the chamber that the time allocated for debate of this amendment has now concluded. The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Cash and standing in the name of Senator Birmingham be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:57]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>34</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion to amend the MPU as moved by Senator Chisholm be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:04]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>23</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>40</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the urgency motion as moved by Senator Faruqi be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:08] <br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>13</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>52</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>58</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>58</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>58</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—On behalf of Senator Chandler, I present additional information received by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee on its inquiry into the human rights implications of recent violence in Iran.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>58</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the chair of the Economics Legislation Committee, I present additional information received by the committee in relation to its inquiries into the provisions of the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024, the Superannuation (Objective) Bill 2023, and the Treasury Laws Amendment (Better Targeted Superannuation Concessions and Other Measures) Bill 2023 and a related bill.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>58</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the chair of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, I present additional information received by the committee in relation to its inquiry into the provisions of the Defence Trade Controls Amendment Bill 2023.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, I present the <inline font-style="italic">H</inline><inline font-style="italic">uman rights scrutiny report </inline><inline font-style="italic">No.4</inline><inline font-style="italic"> of 2024</inline> and the report of the committee on Australia's human rights framework, together with accompanying documents. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report of the committee on Australia's human rights framework.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Capital and External Territories Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Capital and External Territories, I present the report of the committee entitled <inline font-style="italic">A capital for all Australians: </inline><inline font-style="italic">fostering and </inline><inline font-style="italic">promoting the </inline><inline font-style="italic">significance of Australia's </inline><inline font-style="italic">national capital</inline>.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, I present the fourth report of 2024 of the committee on its inquiry into facilities to support advanced Growler phase 6.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treaties Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties, I present the 215th report of the committee on the second protocol to amend the agreement establishing the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Law Enforcement Joint Committee, Economics References Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Joint Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, Intelligence and Security Joint Committee, National Capital and External Territories Joint Committee, National Disability Insurance Scheme Joint Committee, Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee, Treaties Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>59</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present 17 government responses to committee reports as set out in the document available in the chamber and listed on the Dynamic Red. I seek leave to have the documents incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity—Joint Statutory Committee—Report—Integrity of Australia's border arrangements—Government response, dated April 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1: The committee recommends that Australian Government law enforcement agencies develop, in consultation with ACLEI, a coordinated serious crime and corruption strategy with a particular focus on strategies and actions to enhance integrity and to identify, prevent and prosecute corruption at Australia's borders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2: The committee recommends that the Department of Home Affairs portfolio agencies and Department of Agriculture, Water and the Environment work together to ensure a consistent approach to the development and implementation of integrity and anti-corruption frameworks. In addition, that these agencies work together to develop agreed site-specific integrity and anti-corruption plans and procedures that take into account site-specific corruption vulnerabilities whilst aligning with the broader integrity and anti-corruption framework.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3: The committee recommends that the Australian Government review the overall administration of the ASIC and MSIC schemes to consider either a single issuing authority or a significantly reduced number of issuing bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4: The committee recommends a central register of ASICs and MSICs be established that is updated on a regular or real-time basis to reflect, at a minimum:</para></quote>
<list>relevant convictions;</list>
<list>cessation of employment; and</list>
<list>individuals holding multiple cards.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5: The committee recommends that the Australian Government assess the capability of law enforcement agencies to appropriately and proportionately exercise powers to undertake their roles in preventing, disrupting and investigating criminal activity at Australia's ports and related facilities in the supply chain and consider how best to mitigate existing barriers to effective law enforcement at ports and along the supply chain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6: The committee recommends that the Australian Government ensures there is a program of ongoing research on corruption activities at Australia's borders and within agencies operating at the border. This will assist to identify corruption risks and better inform anti-corruption measures that can be updated to meet the constantly evolving risk environment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since the report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics References Committee—Australia's sovereign naval shipbuilding capability—Future Submarine acquisition: A shambles—We don't think, we know—Second interim report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Government reviews the size of the ADF in order to ensure a more sustainable and credible conventional force is available for future military operations, particularly sustained operations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Department of Defence provide in a manner suitable for publication:</para></quote>
<list>an explanation as to why the Department informed the Parliament that the cost of the Future Submarine Program was $50 billion out-turned when the Department of Finance already had put that figure significantly higher; and</list>
<list>an explanation for the claim that the original tender for the Attack-class was $20 billion—$25 billion range in 2016 dollars rather that the $50 billion that has since 2016 consistently been cited by both the Government and the Department.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With the aim of increasing its staff's awareness of their democratic responsibilities:</para></quote>
<list>the Department of Defence re-examine its induction and training programs and corporate culture regarding its role as a department answerable to the Australian people through the processes of the Australian Parliament; and</list>
<list>report back to the Parliament on the progress it making on those induction and training programs.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics References Committee—Australia's sovereign naval shipbuilding capability—Future Submarine program: Ringing of bells, wringing of hands—Interim report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commonwealth Government and the Department of Defence report to the Parliament on what discussions were or are being undertaken with Saab/Kockums, or any other alternative submarine builder, about the provision of a Collins-class derivative boat, or any other design, as part of a 'Plan B' should the Naval Group agreement be cancelled.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Department of Defence provide the Senate Economics References Committee, on a confidential basis, an un-redacted version of the renegotiated Strategic Partnership Agreement with Naval Group for scrutiny.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With the aim of increasing its staff's awareness of their democratic responsibilities:</para></quote>
<list>the Department of Defence re-examine its induction and training programs and corporate culture regarding its role as a department answerable to the Australian people through the processes of the Australian Parliament; and</list>
<list>report back to the Parliament on the progress it making on those induction and training programs.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the Department of Defence provides to the committee in un-redacted form all the documents requested under the Senate's Order of Production of Documents (General Business Motion, No. 786).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics References Committee—Future of Australia's naval shipbuilding industry—Final report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Commonwealth and state governments work together to develop a national shipbuilding plan, incorporating the existing naval shipbuilding plan. A national shipbuilding plan should include the following:</para></quote>
<list>agreed procurement principles focused on support for a continuous build of vessels in Australia utilising Australian industry and Australian shipyards;</list>
<list>at a minimum, all vessels procured by the Commonwealth, scientific and research vessels, federal police and customs and border protection vessels, and agriculture vessels. These procurements should be subject to the same level of scrutiny as naval procurements have been, and be planned accordingly in the national interest;</list>
<list>how remaining shipyards not identified in the government's naval shipbuilding plan will be utilised in a continuous national shipbuilding build program;</list>
<list>how Australia's commercial and exports industry can be supported and planned for into the future;</list>
<list>the requirement that reporting against the plan be provided every six months to the Commonwealth Parliament for scrutiny; and</list>
<list>any other matters deemed essential to the development of a holistic national plan.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that in the absence of a national shipbuilding plan in the short term, reporting against the government's current naval shipbuilding plan and its four key enablers and three major continuous build programs be provided to the Commonwealth Parliament every six months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the government prioritise finalising the future location of Collins Class sustainment activities and confirm plans for the future of the ASC and its employees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the funding announced in MYEFO expenditure of $29.4 million over three years from 2017-18 for ASC job retention scholarships be immediately released to the ASC to prevent further job losses from the strategically vital naval shipbuilding industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Naval Shipbuilding College establish structured consultations mechanisms with Industry Reference Committees associated with Naval Shipbuilding Occupations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Industry Skills Committee task the existing Industry Reference Committees, responsible for the development of training products associated with naval shipbuilding occupations, with establishing Technical Advisory Groups to ensure that skills gaps identified through their own industry consultations or by Naval Shipbuilding Colleges are integrated into existing training package development and maintenance work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the government provide clear definitions about what constitutes Australian involvement, content, and participation, and how this will be achieved in each project outlined in the government's naval shipbuilding plan. These definitions and requirements for Australian industry involvement are to be stipulated in each contract.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Australian Industry Capability plans for new Defence naval projects are subject to examination by the Senate—conducted in a manner similar to international treaties. The committee further recommends that finalised Australian Industry Capability plans are subject to six monthly reviews against progress by the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade—Joint Standing Committee—Expanding the membership of the Comprehensive and Progressive Trans-Pacific Partnership—Report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government continue to embrace an ambitious free trade agenda by working with other CPTPP members to expand the CPTPP to include new members that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) support an open, transparent and stable trading environment in the Indo- Pacific;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) demonstrate an ability and willingness to meet the agreement's high standards including a commitment to deliver against its rules and norms; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c) offer export potential through enhanced market access.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government works with other CPTPP members to leverage the process that applied to the United Kingdom as the first aspiring economy to formally request accession as a template for future aspirant economies while also learning lessons from the United Kingdom experience including the:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) benefits that accrue from negotiating a bilateral FTA with the United Kingdom while concurrently encouraging and facilitating its accession to the CPTPP;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) importance of government-to-government engagement during the CPTPP accession process, including at the ministerial level;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c) value of clear guidance on the CPTPP accession process such as deal stages and related expectations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to encourage and facilitate the accession of the United Kingdom to the CPTPP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to encourage China to re-establish full trading relations including ending its coercive trade measures and reengaging in ministerial dialogue, and to demonstrate an ability and willingness to commit to the CPTPP's high standards, prior to supporting the commencement of an accession process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to encourage and facilitate the accession of Taiwan to the CPTPP and to consider negotiating a bilateral Taiwan-Australia FTA concurrently, noting the benefit of a similar approach taken with the United Kingdom.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to support South Korea in submitting a formal request to accede to the CPTPP, and to provide encouragement and facilitation of its accession upon a formal request being submitted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to encourage the United States to renew its interest in the CPTPP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with other CPTPP members to encourage informal discussions with Thailand, Indonesia, the Philippines and other economies which have expressed an interest in acceding to the CPTPP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade—Joint Standing Committee—One region, one family, one future: Deepening relations with the Pacific nations through trade—Report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response to the recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government prioritises its support for the Pacific region to recover from COVID-19 by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) increasing its development assistance contributions to countries in the region to help them mitigate economic and health crises resulting from the pandemic (refer paragraphs 6.3, 6.5, 6.8—6.11, 6.17 & 6.22);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) providing vaccine coverage for countries in the region including health workforce training and education campaigns (refer paragraphs 6.9—6.10 & 6.25)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that, given the evidence received, the Australian Government prioritises the activation of greater trade and investment with countries of the Pacific region by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) considering measures and reforms to the Pacific Agreement on Closer Economic Relations (PACER Plus) to address any gaps in key areas such as in rules of origin, customs, biosecurity measures, standards, trade in services and investment during the Agreement's implementation by Australia, New Zealand and Pacific island countries (refer paragraphs 4.5, 4.8, 4.10, 4.37, 4.40, 4.82, 4.91);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) providing training, seed funding, and targeted support to allow Pacific islanders, including Pacific islander small business owners and Pacific exporters, to gain access to Australian markets and also meet the standards required (refer paragraphs 3.102—3.104, 4.88—4.89, 7.45 & 8.4);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c) supporting further research and evaluation of Australia-Pacific island trade and investment (refer paragraphs 3.49, 5.127 & 5.129);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">d) focusing its Aid for Trade program in the Pacific on building human resource, educational and institutional capacity in the Pacific island countries to reform national economic and trade policies, improve trade facilitation processes and build trade-enhancing institutions (refer paragraphs 3.90, 3.91, 3.93 & 3.95—3.104);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">e) supporting with technical assistance and expertise the establishment of National Standards Bodies in Pacific island countries with the ambition of developing a regional Pacific standard (refer paragraphs 7.26—7.38);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">f) supporting the Pacific Quality Infrastructure Initiative and other bilateral, regional and multilateral projects involving Australia in the Pacific region aimed at delivering quality infrastructure (refer paragraph 7.39);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">g) coordinating with interested super funds to support and promote pilot investor tours of Pacific island countries (refer paragraph 6.112);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">h) assisting interested governments of Pacific island countries to join Australia's kava commercial importation pilot and for the pilot to consider the feasibility of classifying kava as a food under a joint food standard of Food Standards Australia New Zealand (refer paragraphs 8.13-8.33).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government improves travel and mobility between Australia and the countries of the Pacific region by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) establishing a Pacific travel bubble between Australia and New Zealand that includes interested countries of the Pacific region, subject to health advice and the implementation of COVID-safe travel and quarantine arrangements (refer paragraphs 3.30—3.46);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) investigating the potential for improving infrastructure and its maintenance to encourage and enable increased air and sea links between Australia and the Pacific (refer paragraphs 3.142, 3.145—3.146, 3.148, 3.157—3.158 & 3.160);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c) introducing a Pacific Business Travel Card, similar to the visa APEC Business Travel Card (refer paragraphs 6.44, 6.48—6.49 & 6.51—6.52);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">d) reviewing existing labour mobility arrangements, including the Seasonal Worker Programme and the Pacific Labour Scheme, for workers from countries of the Pacific region with consideration for:</para></quote>
<list>improving regulatory and administrative processes (refer paragraphs 5.33, 5.70—5.71 & 5.105);</list>
<list>improving working conditions including improved monitoring and enforcement activity in compliance with relevant provisions on workers' entitlements (refer paragraphs 5.72—5.75 & 5.108—5.114);</list>
<list>improving workers' access to superannuation by making the transfer of funds into workers' superannuation accounts in the Pacific easier</list>
<list>and faster (refer paragraphs 5.76—5.79);</list>
<list>improving workers' access to health care and insurance while on assignment in Australia (refer paragraphs 5.81 & 5.108);</list>
<list>improving communication and access to information on workers' rights (refer paragraphs 5.80 & 5.108—5.110);</list>
<list>incorporating industry-led third-party audited certifications, such as Fair Farms which is used in the horticultural industry, to help oversee ethical treatment of Pacific island workers (refer paragraphs 5.92 & 5.111—5.114);</list>
<list>introducing induction training on labour mobility schemes to new diplomats from countries of the Pacific region (refer paragraph 5.103); and</list>
<list>identifying youth and women employment opportunities (refer paragraphs 5.115—5.117, 5.125 & 5.126).</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government works towards deepening people-to-people ties between Australia and countries of the Pacific region through:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) sport</para></quote>
<list>by expanding its Sports Diplomacy 2030 and Australia's Pacific Stepup initiatives through a new program called 'Team AusPac'. Team AusPac would be spearheaded by the Australian Government and, in partnership with relevant sporting organisations, the program would aim to (refer paragraphs 7.67—7.70):</list>
<list>maximise opportunities for Pacific island countries to be closely associated with, and actively participate in, the 2032 Olympic and Paralympic Games in Australia (refer paragraph 7.74);</list>
<list>create a special Pacific islands program as part of the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) in support of elite athletes from the Pacific (refer paragraph 7.70);</list>
<list>support efforts by the Pacific to have a team from a Pacific island country enter the National Rugby League (NRL) competition (refer paragraph 7.68);</list>
<list>expand the number of sports to receive special focus under the PacificAus Sports program beyond netball, rugby union, football and rugby league (refer paragraph 7.70);</list>
<list>expand the scope of the PacificAus Sports program to include a capacity building program for sporting coaches and trainers from the Pacific (refer paragraphs 7.67 & 7.70).</list>
<quote><para class="block">b) Churches</para></quote>
<list>by continuing and building upon investment in cultural bridging programs such as the Pacific Church Partnerships program (refer paragraphs 8.34—8.39);</list>
<quote><para class="block">c) media—by supporting the provision of more Pacific-related Australian media content on issues such as seasonal work opportunities or aid projects to Pacific nations while also assisting with the expansion and the quality of Pacific-focused business media services to the Pacific (refer paragraphs 6.113—6.115, 6.121—6.123, 6.127—6.130 & 8.35);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">d) education—by offering a capped number of Commonwealth Supported Places, or equivalent, to prospective students from countries of the Pacific region, to attend Australian secondary schools, technical and further education institutes, and universities (refer paragraphs 2.92—2.93, 2.101, 3.88 & 7.59—7.61).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government recognise the role played by Australian states and territories, in particular by Queensland, in Australia's relationship with countries of the Pacific by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">a) analysing the recommendations in this report within a Queensland context;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">b) undertaking a feasibility study on expanding the services of a Pacificfocused office for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in Queensland, resourced by senior departmental staff (refer paragraphs 3.151—3.152 & 3.162); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">c) engaging with the Queensland State Government and relevant local government authorities in Queensland on opportunities to work collaboratively on the recommendations in this report and other initiatives to further strengthen Australia's relationship with countries of the Pacific region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee—Report—Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023 [Provisions]—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Introduction</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 10 May 2023, the Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023 (the Bill) was introduced into the House of Representatives by the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence, the Hon Richard Maries MP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 11 May 2023, the Senate referred the provisions of the Bill to the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee (the Committee) for inquiry and report by 9 June 2023. The Committee published 117 submissions, including those made by the Australian Government Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water, and ARPANSA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill was passed by Parliament on 22 June 2023 and received Royal Assent on 3 July 2023 as the</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Act 2023.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government Response to the Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government thanks the Committee for its work. The Government agrees with the Committee's recommendation that the Bill be passed without delay, which subsequently occurred on 22 June 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response to additional comments by Coalition Senators</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government welcomes the bipartisan support from Coalition Senators in relation to the passage of the Bill, but does not support lifting the moratorium on civil nuclear power. The removal of prohibitions on the use of nuclear energy is not necessary to support Australia's acquisition of conventionally-armed, nuclear-powered submarines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response to the Dissenting Report by the Australian Greens</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not agree with the Australian Greens' Dissenting Report and notes that accepting high level radioactive waste from other countries is not under consideration as part of Australia's nuclear-powered submarine program. No decision has been made regarding Australia joining the Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons (TPNW) but the Government shares the Treaty's ambition of a world without nuclear weapons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Contributing Departments and Agencies to the Government Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Submarine Agency Department of Defence</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Impact of Defence training activities and facilities on rural and regional communities—First interim report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence engage with the Office of the Industry Advocate to investigate opportunities for events or workshops which also include regional areas and local businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence review its formal mechanisms for communication and coordination in the Upper Spencer Gulf region to ensure:</para></quote>
<list>the most effective flow of information including plans which may generate potential business opportunities;</list>
<list>as much information about upcoming training exercises is being disseminated to the local community with as much advance notice as possible; and</list>
<list>that a contact point regarding local exercises is available on an ongoing basis and that this information is disseminated regularly.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence hold a post exercise debrief with the local community representatives on a trial basis and then, in consultation, evaluate whether it would be useful for stakeholders on an ongoing basis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence review Defgram 218/2017 to clarify or issue supplementary guidance to staff that local purchases outside the Standing Offer Panel is also encouraged as required.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence make information available to local communities about</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence expenditure in the area. In consultation, with the local community, Defence should consider how best to present and disseminate this information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Impact of Defence training activities and facilities on rural and regional communities—Second interim report—Government response, dated May 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that, in consultation with the local councils, Defence review its mechanisms for communication and coordination in the Fitzroy and Townsville regions to ensure the most effective flow of information including plans which may generate potential business opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence make information available to local communities about Defence expenditure in the area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence commission an independent economic impact assessment of the loss of rateable land which would result from the proposed expansions in these areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence review its formal mechanisms for communication and coordination in the areas around the Shoalwater Bay Training Area to ensure that:</para></quote>
<list>as much information about upcoming training exercises is being disseminated to the local community with as much advance notice as possible; and</list>
<list>that a contact point regarding local exercises is available on an ongoing basis and this this information is disseminated regularly.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Impact of Defence training activities and facilities on rural and regional communities—Third interim report—Government response, dated May 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence make information available to local communities about Defence expenditure in the area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence review the evidence from the Ngaigu-Mulu Aboriginal Corporation at the Katherine public hearing and investigate the issues raised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Impact of Defence training activities and facilities on rural and regional communities—Fourth interim report—Government response, dated May 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence review the accessibility of military museums located within Defence bases and investigate options to improve access and increase visitor numbers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence investigate the feasibility of introducing tailored security arrangements to facilitate streamlined access to the Puckapunyal Military Area in limited circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence, in consultation with local councils, reviews its existing regional communication mechanisms with a view to establish a regular forum to facilitate discussion about Defence activities and potential business opportunities in the region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4 4.19</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence consider requiring, through an additional provision in Base Services contracts, Tier 1 contractors to use a payment system similar to the system currently used by Defence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Defence make information available to local communities about Defence expenditure in the respective area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendations. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Intelligence and Security—Joint Statutory Committee—Report—Annual report of committee activities 2021-22—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Department of Home Affairs notify the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security in writing when terrorist group re-listings are not being sought or are being de-listed. This is to occur as soon as practicable after the event. Written notification is to be followed up by, if requested, an oral briefing to the Committee on the basis for the revocation or non-renewal of terrorist group listings</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that any Bill referrals are accompanied by a submission from the department(s) responsible for the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the appropriate Minister notify the Committee of any amendments to the Intelligence Services Act 2001 affecting the role or functions of the Committee, not contained in a Bill reviewed by the Committee or in a government response to a Committee report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government refer Section 29 and Schedule 1 of the Intelligence Services Act 2001 to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security for review and report at the commencement of the 47th Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government investigate, in consultation with the Presiding Officers of the Parliament, the Director-General of Security and the Director-General National Intelligence, the feasibility of additional classified meeting spaces within Parliament House for use by parliamentary committees, including the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Capital and External Territories—Joint Standing Committee—Inquiry into availability and access to enabling communications infrastructure in Australia's external territories—Interim report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Overview</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The interim report on the Availability and Access to Enabling Communications Infrastructure in Australia's External Territories was tabled by the Joint Standing Committee on the National Capital and External Territories (the Committee) on 28 February 2022. The Government's responses to the Report's recommendations is below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's response to the interim report on the <inline font-style="italic">Availability and Access to Enabling Communications Infrastructure in Australia's External Territories </inline>is set out in detail below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that early in the 47th Parliament, a new Inquiry be referred to this Committee with terms of reference that are similar or comparable to the 'Inquiry into the availability and access to enabling communications infrastructure in Australia's external territories'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Capital and External Territories—Inquiry into economic, social and environmental sustainability in the Indian Ocean Territories—Interim report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Overview</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The interim report into the Economic, Social and Environmental Sustainability in the Indian Ocean Territories (IOT) was tabled by the Joint Standing Committee on the National Capital and the External Territories (the Committee) on 28 February 2022. The Government's responses to the Report's recommendations is below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's response to the interim report on the inquiry into economic, social and environmental sustainability in the Indian Ocean Territories is set out below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that early in 47th Parliament, a new Inquiry be referred to this Committee with terms of reference that are comparable or similar to the 'Inquiry economic, social and environmental sustainability in the Indian Ocean Territories'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Disability Insurance Scheme—Joint Standing Committee—Final report—NDIS workforce—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations made by the Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government facilitate the collection of data to support better understanding about new working models being employed in the National Disability Insurance Scheme, including online and platform-based services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government ensure that workers in the National Disability Insurance Scheme and their representatives, as well as other stakeholders, are consulted in all regular pricing review processes and processes to review the Cost Model for Disability Support Workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government, through co-design with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and organisations, develop and report on specific outcomes for initiatives in the NDIS National Workforce Plan 2021-2025 to support the growth and development of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander NDIS workforce.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. The Committee recommends the Australian Government implement a targeted strategy to improve employment opportunities for people with disability within the NDIS workforce specifically, that is co-designed by people with disability and peak bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government address the funding and resource implications of any new training and upskilling initiatives, in relation to NDIS service providers and individual disability support workers within the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. The Committee recommends the Australian Government develop and implement a robust strategy to increase and improve opportunities for student placements in the NDIS workforce. The strategy should include strong partnerships with NDIS service providers, universities, TAFEs and other training institutions, and be co-designed by people with disability and peak bodies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government, in consultation with NDIS participants and their advocates, the disability and allied health sectors, and NDIS workers and their representatives, develop and publish clear and measurable outcomes for each of the initiatives in the NDIS National Workforce Plan 2021-2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8. The Committee recommends that the Australian Government develop and publish a comprehensive consultation strategy for the implementation of measures under the NDIS National Workforce Plan 2021-2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation. However, given the passage of time since this report was tabled, a substantive Government response is no longer appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public Accounts and Audit—Joint Statutory Committee—496th report—Inquiry into the Defence major projects report 2020-21 and 2021-22 and procurement of Hunter class frigates: Interim report on the 2020-21 and 2021-22 Defence major projects report—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">General Comments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence acknowledges the observations of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit ('the Committee') in Report 496 that specifically addresses the 2020-21 and 2021-22 Major Projects Reports (MPR). Defence agrees with all three recommendations the Committee has made, and has made improvements in policies and practice since the development of the last MPR.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation No: 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends that the Department of Defence updates internal governance to require decisions for projects to enter the Projects of Interest or Projects of Concern list be actioned in a timely manner, taking no more than three months between decision and implementation.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Summary of response: Agreed</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Supporting rationale:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence acknowledges the Committee's concern that projects must be elevated to Projects of Interest or Concern in a timely manner, as a result of the issues identified in the 2021-22 Major Projects Report regarding the Civil Military Air Traffic Management System project.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence has implemented reform measures announced on 10 October 2022 by the Deputy Prime Minister and the Minister for Defence Industry to strengthen and revitalise the Projects of Concern process. A revised policy on the performance reporting and the Projects and Products of Interest and Concern regime was introduced in February 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The policy provides specific guidance on timeframes to action the advice and remediation planning for Project of Interest or Concern. Advice to the Group Head must be provided within one month of the need for consideration of elevation being identified. In the case of Projects of Interest, the Group Head is the decision-maker. Should the Group Head determine that the project should be elevated to a Project of Concern that advice is to be provided to the Minister for Defence Industry within two weeks. A remediation plan is to be in place within three months of the decision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation No: 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends that the Department of Defence provide a detailed update on the implementation of and compliance with internal policies for contingency funding and Lessons Learned for Major Projects.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Summary of response: Agreed</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Supporting rationale:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence has been supporting its major project teams with additional guidance and assistance to improve their compliance with policies and processes associated with project management. Defence is seeing positive signs that the contingency funding and lessons learned policies are being adhered to across the MPR projects, and continues to assess compliance across all major projects.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Contingency funding</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In accordance with the existing Defence contingency management policy, if a major project is unable to manage a contingency event within its approved budget allocation, it must enter a formal process to access contingency provisions. The Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group Risk Management Manual specifies the requirement for a major project to maintain a contingency budget log, an artefact required for the contingency application process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The requirement for submission of the contingency log, to be assessed as part of the contingency application process, ensures that major projects maintain a record of management decisions relating to the emergence and realisation of contingent events. This enables the project to be able to access contingency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An assessment of the projects in scope of the 2022-23 Major Project Report identified that all five projects that had used contingency had linked this to a risk in their respective logs, and followed the Defence policy. Defence continues to assess compliance for all major projects.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Lessons learned</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the release of the Capability Acquisition and Sustainment Group (CASG) revised Lessons Program Policy in 2022 (with which all MPR projects must comply), Defence has continued to improve the way that lessons are captured and shared for major projects.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Observations, insights and lessons are captured within the Defence Lessons Repository. Under the CASG Lessons Program, major projects must develop a Lessons Collection and Management Plan, which draws on existing information in the Defence Lessons Repository relevant for their project planning and management. The Plan also requires the project to record their own observations, insights and lessons. This process supports the planning of future projects.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to policy, there are a range of other ways that lessons information is shared and utilised. Lessons panels are held on specific projects, where the project team and their leaders provide insights and advice to an audience of senior leaders and project teams across CASG. Case studies are also developed to share knowledge more broadly. Additionally, systemic themes from the Defence Lessons Repository are analysed and fed back into policy and training.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence is undertaking specific action to record the lessons from previous exited Major Projects in the Defence Lessons Repository. This includes the issues identified regarding compliance with contingency management and lessons learned policies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An assessment of the projects in scope of the 2022-23 Major Projects Report identified that all of the projects have related lessons information available within the Defence Lessons Repository. Defence has reinforced with its project teams the requirement for capturing lessons in the repository and is monitoring this and providing assistance to project teams to ensure this occurs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation No: 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends that the Department of Defence provide an update on the requirements and consideration process to close recommendations from the Australian National Audit Office and the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, including an explanation as to why Recommendation 4 of Report 489: Defence Major Projects Report 2019-20 has been closed without meeting its intended purpose.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Summary of Response: Agreed</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Supporting Rationale:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With regard to Recommendation 4 of Report 489: Defence Major Projects Report 2019-20, Defence understood the Committee was seeking Defence to better define the declaration of operational capability milestones. Defence determined that, going forward, there would be only two authorised terms describing a delta or deviation from achievement of project milestones—'caveats' and 'deficiencies'. These were updated in Defence policy in December 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence acknowledges that "the definition of the two terms does not meet the intention of the Committee's recommendation to clarify any term relating to a deviation from project milestones being achieved". Recommendation 4 of Report 489 was closed in accordance with Defence's recommendation closure policy and process, with Defence advising the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit of audit closure of Recommendation 4 of Report 489, via a tabling document on 1 June 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Defence's intention in responding to Recommendation 4 was to identify to the Committee that there would only be two terms going forward. Defence intended to define any remaining legacy references in the 2022-23 Major Projects Report via its glossary and accepts that the response to the recommendation would have benefited from that clarification. There are three projects that use the legacy term 'exception' from 2021 in relation to achievement of project milestones in the 2022-23 Major Project Report. Definitions of 'exception', 'issue' and 'risk' were included in the 2022-23 Major Projects Report glossary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All projects will adhere to the endorsed terms of 'caveats' and 'deficiencies' going forward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With regard to the process to close recommendations from the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) and the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, Defence's Chief Audit Executive provides independent and objective assessment of evidence to show the requirements of the recommendation have been met to close recommendations. Once the Chief Audit Executive approves closure of the Parliamentary recommendation, Defence will provide a response back to the relevant committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The status of recommendations, including when they are considered implemented, is also reported regularly to the independent Defence Audit and Risk Committee. The ANAO are provided these updates on the status and closure of audit recommendations, as they are permanently invited guests to the Defence Audit and Risk Committee meetings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2021, the ANAO conducted the <inline font-style="italic">Implementation of ANAO and Parliamentary Committee Recommendations Audit (Audit 34 of 2020-21) </inline>to examine whether the Department of Defence implemented a selection of agreed parliamentary committee and ANAO performance audit recommendations. One of the key criteria was to assess if Defence had appropriate governance arrangements in place to respond to, monitor and implement recommendations. The ANAO audit acknowledged Defence had appropriate governance arrangements for responding to, monitoring and implementing ANAO recommendations and partially appropriate governance arrangements for parliamentary recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response, Defence reviewed its existing recommendations processes and revised them to establish a clear line of sight of the process, roles and responsibilities for responding to and implementing recommendations for internal and ANAO audits and parliamentary committee recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ANAO does not require Government departments to provide advice on the status or closure of ANAO performance audit recommendations. Defence prepare a closure pack for the ANAO to assess the remediation of financial statement audit findings. In addition, as detailed above, the ANAO are permanently invited guests of the Defence Audit and Risk Committee meetings where the status and closure of ANAO and Parliamentary recommendations are discussed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treaties—Joint Standing Committee—202nd report—Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement—Government response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government thanks the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(the Committee) for its expedited consideration of the Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement (ECTA).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government provides the following response to the Committee's recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response to the recommendations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government strongly pursues greater market access for the Australian wine industry in future Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement negotiations.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Seeking additional market access for wine is a priority in negotiations for an Australia- India Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends the Australian Government implements the recommendations of Report 193: Strengthening the Trade Agreement and Treaty Making Process in Australia, particularly in relation to greater consultation and transparency, and in providing independent modelling and analysis of trade agreements.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation and proposes to formally respond in the Joint Standing Committee on Trade and Investment Growth inquiry: <inline font-style="italic">Inquiry into the Australian Government's approach to negotiating trade and investment agreements.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is improving its consultation and transparency in relation to the free trade agreement (FTA) negotiations process and endeavours to undertake economic modelling and/or analysis of trade agreements where appropriate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government requested the Joint Standing Committee on Trade and Investment Growth inquire into the Government's approach to negotiating trade and investment agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Identifying methods to strengthen stakeholder consolation and improve transparency was a key reason for this request.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has also established a Trade 2040 Taskforce, which held its inaugural meeting on 2 November 2023 and brings together government, industry, unions and community representatives and serves as a consultative mechanism to further the Government's trade policy agenda. The Taskforce will help improve the consultative processes with stakeholders across the forward trade and investment agenda, including with business, unions and community representatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, National Cabinet decided on 30 September 2022 to include a Ministerial Council on Trade and Investment in the Federal Relations Architecture. It held its second meeting on 20 October 2023 and is intended to increase coordination on international and national priorities related to trade and investment across Commonwealth, State and Territory jurisdictions, including in relation to trade agreements. More information can be found at: Communique—Second Meeting of the Ministerial Council on Trade and Investment | Minister for Trade and Tourism (trademinister.gov.au) DFAT sources information on opportunities and potential impacts of FTAs through extensive consultations and stakeholder engagement. DFAT undertakes appropriate economic modelling, both commissioned and in house, of individual FTAs on a case-by-case basis. Independent analysis on new and existing FTAs is also provided by stakeholders in submissions addressing impacts on the Australian economy as a whole or on certain sectors. These processes commence before the development of a mandate and continue throughout the negotiations and after entry into force.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee supports the Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement and recommends that binding treaty action be taken.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has implemented this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australia-India Economic Cooperation and Trade Agreement entered into force on 29 December 2022.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to speak on the committee's inquiry into the bank closures in regional Australia. First of all I'd like to acknowledge the great work of my committee colleagues, in particular, the chair, Matt Canavan, who has done a very good job of raising this issue in the media. I also acknowledge other committee colleagues, in particular Linda White—she will be sadly missed; she was a great committee member—Glenn Sterle, Senator Colbeck, Senator Brockman and Senator Allman-Payne. I think it's fair to say that it was a very collegiate committee. We all shared the same values, which is that we believe that people out there in regional and metropolitan Australia are entitled to have access to banking services. Indeed, the first recommendation of the committee was that it is time that it is recognised in this country that banking is an essential service. That is very, very important because, like all other essential services in this country, you have to have a public-private set-up. With hospitals, you have public hospitals and you have private hospitals. With schools, you have public schools and you have private schools. It is time we recognised that, with banking, we also need a public bank. The sale of the Commonwealth Bank did not increase competition; it actually concentrated market powers.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth Bank was set up by the Labor Party and Andrew Fisher and King O'Malley way back in around, I think, 1911 or 1913—I'll stand to be corrected on one of those dates. It actually started off as a central bank as well and it funded many infrastructure projects across the country, but I won't dwell on the infrastructure bank project issue now. Eventually the national bank aspect of that Commonwealth Bank got segregated. The Reserve Bank side of it got segregated in 1959. Eventually the responsibilities of the RBA side were again segregated in the nineties, with APRA, the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, being separated from the RBA, and that's a shame because what we've got now is a situation where too many cooks are spoiling the broth.</para>
<para>I don't think APRA has done a very good job at all of enforcing the voluntary code of conduct that was implemented 20 years ago that says that the last bank in town has to keep that branch open. One of the things that we heard from many constituents is that major banks were closing down branches without actually consulting the community. Indeed, one of the recommendations of this report is that we now introduce a mandatory code of conduct and that banks be forced to consult with APRA if they close a branch in a regional town or a metropolitan area. I have to be honest: I think the horse has bolted on that one. But it is a recommendation that I think we should still implement just as an extra safeguard. It is something that must be done.</para>
<para>It's important to understand, and I just want to identify, the vulnerable communities out there that need face-to-face banking. First, there are the retirees. Many retirees aren't comfortable using computers. They're afraid of scams. And it's not just retirees who weren't necessarily tech savvy in the beginning. I've spoken to retirees who were tech savvy but who, as they've got older, have got Alzheimer's or Parkinson's or whose eyesight isn't as good. They're not as comfortable using a mouse and reading the computer and they're not as sharp as they once were. I've got to admit that, with some of the spam emails that go round, it is very easy to be confused. We owe it to our retirees to make sure that they can go to a branch, get face-to-face service and build up a customer relationship with that bank—a bank that takes their money at, say, one or two per cent and then lends it out at five or six per cent. There are billions of dollars out there in very low interest accounts. Those banks have an obligation, if they're going to hold these people's money on their account and pay them a very low rate of interest, which is often what they do, to make sure that they deliver a service in return for getting the benefit of lending on that money at a higher interest rate.</para>
<para>A second, very important part of the community that relies on bank branches is, of course, small businesses. They need access to banks for a number of reasons, not least of which is cash. Cash is still an important part of our economy. No-one is doubting for a minute that we're going to go electronic, but there are always times and places for some cash transactions. Some people want to use cash all the time. I myself can live with using electronic payments, but I must admit that at times it is convenient to have cash, especially if you're a tourist. One of the things we heard from Port Douglas, for example, is that many tourists go up to Port Douglas—I think it has something like half a million visitors a year—and the branches are closing and aren't open five days a week from nine till five o'clock. Often the tourists, if they're on holiday from Sydney, need cash or they might have to finish off a banking transaction and may need access to a bank branch. They're another vulnerable community.</para>
<para>Another community that is very important is community groups. They hold fetes and things like that. I know myself; I was the president of my son's school P&F. We had to change all the signatures, which was quite a kerfuffle. I was living in town at the time, and it was a kerfuffle to all meet at the same place at the same time. We've heard stories of people having to organise a 200- or 300-kilometre round trip to go to another town to sign signatures. Whether it's a school P&F or some other volunteer organisation, they need a bank branch.</para>
<para>Another community that needs support is immigrants. They don't always speak English very well when they arrive. They're not necessarily comfortable reading all the terms and conditions and using, say, an English based internet front end. They would also like to speak to a teller face-to-face to get important personal service. These are some of the vulnerable groups that have been impacted by the banks that rip out $30 billion of profits a year.</para>
<para>I'm very glad the first recommendation was that banking is an essential service, and a part of that is the public bank. I'm not a big fan of the current Bank@Post system at the moment, where post office franchisees are required to provide various banking services for the major banks. I don't think the major banks—and this is something we learnt in the inquiry—are paying the post office franchisees enough, and then the post office is expected to understand all the different nuances of all the different banks and their products. I would much rather we had a government account, which is backed, and those services and those payment systems are actually underpinned by the RBA.</para>
<para>I was recently at a public works inquiry at the RBA head office in Sydney where I was fortunate enough to be able to speak to the RBA governor, Michele Bullock. The RBA still manages the payment systems today. We already have post offices out there that have the physical infrastructure, and we have an RBA with an electronic infrastructure. We can combine those two to provide a bank. If we could somehow turn our post office into a bank and, quite frankly—I'll throw this in as well—as a government insurance office—we should have never privatised the state government insurance offices—we could have a one-stop government owned financial services hub that provides banking services, insurance services and post office services. We could even combine it with Centrelink services whereby people could go in, a bit like a New South Wales model, and get access to all the necessary government services in one place. The money could be used from the profit because we would obviously have to underwrite a certain rate of return so that we wouldn't take away the private banks' profit. Let the private banks rip by all means, but we need a public to maintain ethical competition as well.</para>
<para>I have no doubt that the privatisation of the CBA in the 1990s and the introduction of superannuation led to the actual royal commission into financial misconduct and financial services. That was because we didn't have a public bank to keep a lid on unethical practices engaged by the private banks. I want to thank everyone who has supported this committee and this inquiry, and I strongly encourage the current government of the day to take these recommendations seriously. I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator Barbara Pocock be granted leave of absence for the period 24 June 2024 to 4 July 2024 inclusive.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Law Enforcement Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise as chair of the parliamentary Joint Committee on Law Enforcement to speak about the committee's report, <inline font-style="italic">Australia's illicit drug problem: Challenges and opportunities for law enforcement</inline>, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Reflecting on the magnitude of the problem, the committee was aware that a significant amount of work exists on the issue of illicit drugs in Australia's community. This report adds to that body of work by focusing on the role of and the impact on law enforcement in dealing with this issue.</para>
<para>This enquiry was timely given the recent implementation of legislative reforms in Australia's states and territories as well as in other countries that changed the way drugs are treated under criminal law. For example, the Australian Capital Territory has legalised possession of cannabis of up to certain thresholds and decriminalised possession of a small amount of other drugs. These reforms inevitably have implications for law enforcement.</para>
<para>During this enquiry, the committee received 69 submissions and took evidence at four public hearings. The devastating impacts of substance abuse and addiction were well known to the committee at the outset of this enquiry. However, the evidence received reinforced the sheer scale of drugs, supply and the use in Australia, as well as in challenges that exist in addressing drug related harm experienced by individuals, families and the broader community.</para>
<para>Australians have an insatiable appetite for drugs, especially methamphetamines, which is growing, having rebounded from the impacts of COVID-19 lockdowns and border closures. Australians are also prepared to pay high prices for drugs, creating significant profit margins for the suppliers. It is therefore unsurprising that Australia is an attractive market for transnational serious and organised crime networks seeking to generate profit from the drug trade.</para>
<para>Aside from drug production, trafficking and possession, the illicit drug trade also contributes to a myriad of other crimes, including but not limited to money laundering, possession of illegal firearms, violence, intimidation and murder both here in Australia and in other jurisdictions. As the committee was so eloquently reminded by Mr Michael Barnes, commissioner of the New South Wales Crime Commission, there is no fair-trade cocaine.</para>
<para>Disrupting the illicit supply chains is an immense challenge for Australia's law enforcement agencies. The vast majority of drugs originate offshore and are imported into Australia. The AFP and its partners do an incredible job disrupting significant amounts of these drugs before they can make their way into Australia. The AFP assisted overseas police to seize 66 tonnes of illicit drugs offshore, resulting in $10.9 billion in avoidable harm. Domestically, in 2022-23, the AFP seized 30 tonnes of illicit drugs and precursor substances, which resulted in $11.8 billion in avoidable harm. However, law enforcement cannot solve Australia's illicit drugs problems alone.</para>
<para>While there are no easy answers to problems of illicit drugs, the committee found that there are a number of areas of potential improvement. For example, the national policy document for dealing with drugs, the National Drug Strategy 2017-2026, has been subject to the ongoing evaluation process proposed at the commencement. The committee believes there is very limited value in drafting a new strategy when there has not been a comprehensive evaluation of the existing strategy. Further, the government framework that the strategy rested on the Council of Australian Government's architecture brought together Commonwealth, state and territory ministers and officials from law enforcement and the health sector. This standing integrated framework was not reinstated under the national cabinet. Both matters should be addressed to support effective implementations of the current and future drug strategies.</para>
<para>A significant proportion of evidence to this enquiry focused on the merits of decriminalisation of illicit drugs. This is complex and is largely a legislative and policy matter for state and territory governments. The committee's focus was on the impacts of the drug policy on law enforcement agencies, including where decriminalisation has been introduced. What was clear to the committee is that experience in the international jurisdictions which have introduced this reform should be carefully considered over time before broad-scale, fundamental changes are implemented. Two examples of decriminalisation discussed in this inquiry, in Portugal and Oregon, clearly demonstrated that decriminalisation cannot be successful without significant investment in a robust and sustainable health response. The absence of this risks an even greater burden being placed on law enforcement. In its report, the committee makes seven recommendations relating to these and other matters which, in the committee's view, will improve the overall response to reducing the harms of illicit drugs.</para>
<para>I want to thank all witnesses and all the submitters for their assistance to the committee and acknowledge the daily contributions of many of them to improving the lives of those affected by substance abuse and addiction. I also want to thank my fellow members of the committee for what was a very constructive approach to this inquiry. Decriminalisation of drugs and the impact of drugs is always an emotional topic and one which I know that all our committee members took very seriously, as does everyone, I believe, in this chamber. But it is really important during those inquiries to pay respect to witnesses and to fellow members of the committee, because at times there is robust dialogue, and it's important that we remember that our job is to ensure the best outcomes. This inquiry was focused on the impact on law enforcement, which is the responsibility of our committee.</para>
<para>I want to take the opportunity to again place this on record: I know all committees acknowledge the wonderful work, commitment and dedication by their secretariat, and it is no less so with mine. So, to the committee secretariat and the team there: we appreciate the efforts that you make to ensure that we produce very good, constructive reports that reflect the hearings. I commend this report to the Senate. Thank you, Senator Brockman. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee report <inline font-style="italic">Bank closures in regional Australia: Protecting the future of regional banking</inline>, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This was a really important inquiry initiated by Senator Rennick and me and very ably chaired by Senator Canavan, with the support of Senator Colbeck. This is a key issue. We see country towns under an extraordinary amount of pressure. We see regional communities losing access to things that people in the city take for granted. One of those is banking services. We heard so many stories during the inquiry of the almost contemptuous way in which banks treated regional communities. The first they heard of a closure was a note taped on the door of the local bank. When they tried to engage with those banks, they could get nowhere. There was no appeals process. There was no chance to say, 'We'll use the service more; we'll bank here more.' There was no chance to negotiate the presence of an ATM. There was no chance to continue having those high-quality jobs in that community through the banking services.</para>
<para>This inquiry was a chance to shine light on the plight of those regional communities. We went to the Shire of Ashburton in the north of Western Australia—a shire that exports 1.6 per cent of Australia's entire GDP without one bank in the local government area. This is not acceptable in a modern society. There are solutions. One that I am particularly attracted to is making the Bank@Post system more efficient and work better. Bank@Post, through Australia Post outlets, is in many of these communities. In fact, it provides essential services in these communities. If we can improve that system to ensure that those Bank@Post outlets are remunerated fairly and that the services they offer are consistent across all financial institutions, then we can make that system work for regional communities. This is a challenge for us all, but we have to stand up for regional Australia. They cannot be the second-class citizens of this country. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation annual report 2023.</para></quote>
<para>This report was presented out of sitting on 17 May. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the scrutiny work and engagement of the committee in 2023 across the 15 delegated legislation monitors tabled in 2023. The committee considered 1,885 legislative instruments, of which 363 raised scrutiny concerns, which is a slightly lower proportion of instruments raising concerns compared to 2022. I also want to acknowledge that, while I'm giving this report as the Chair of the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee, this work was really done under the leadership of Senator Linda White, ably assisted in her absence by Senator Scarr. I want to acknowledge those colleagues for their work in doing this important scrutiny.</para>
<para>In 2023, there was a significant increase in scrutiny issues raised at the ministerial level, with 101 scrutiny issues raised, compared to 65 in 2022. Concerns raised with the relevant minister most often related to the availability of independent merits review in delegated legislation. I wish to emphasise the committee's expectation under this principle that, where an instrument empowers a decision-maker to make discretionary decisions which have the capacity to affect a person's rights, liberties, obligations or interests, those decisions should ordinarily be subject to independent merits review. Therefore, the explanatory statement to any instrument including such powers should explain whether the independent merits review is available and, if it is not, the characteristics of the relevant decision which justify their exclusion from the merits review by reference to the Administrative Review Council's guide, entitled <inline font-style="italic">What decisions should be subject to merit review?</inline></para>
<para>Chapter 3 of the annual report contains case studies of some of the most significant scrutiny concerns the committee had in 2023. For example, the committee raised numerous concerns in relation to Public Service Regulations 2023, including regarding the adequacy of consultation. The committee was concerned that, although the instruments set out matters directly relevant to the employment and promotion of Australian Public Service employees and review of APS actions, those affected by the instrument were not consulted. However, the committee was pleased to conclude its examination of this instrument following engagement with the Minister for the Public Service, who undertook to consult more broadly with stakeholders, including the Community and Public Sector Union, on proposed further amendments to the instrument. The committee thanks the minister for her engagement and cooperation. The committee reiterates the importance of ensuring consultation with those likely to be affected by an instrument and with experts prior to the instrument being made and continues to monitor this scrutiny issue in 2024.</para>
<para>The committee held four private briefings in 2023, including a private briefing with the Australian Law Reform Commission on 20 April 2023. In light of its inquiry into financial services legislation which details proposed multiple corporations and financial services laws, that proposed model includes recommending a single scoping order containing class exemptions to primary legislation and thematic law books detailing specific areas of law which would both be subject to sunsetting.</para>
<para>I wish to reiterate the committee's expectations that, where exemptions or modifications are included in delegated legislation, they should be time-limited to facilitate regular parliamentary scrutiny and so they do not operate as de facto amendments to primary legislation. While the committee's view is that a time limit of three to five years is generally appropriate, it considers that at a very minimum such instruments should be subject to the 10-year sunsetting period.</para>
<para>Additionally, the committee continued its ongoing engagement in relation to longstanding systemic concerns about a number of Treasury portfolio instruments that create ongoing exemptions to the operation of the primary legislation. This included holding a private briefing with the Assistant Treasurer and his department on 10 March 2023 to discuss the committee's concerns. Following this engagement, the committee was pleased to note the more frequent inclusion of sunsetting in relation to the duration of such instruments, which is in line with the committee's minimum expectations in this regard.</para>
<para>Throughout 2023 the committee continued its engagement regarding legislative instruments exempted from disallowance under the Biosecurity Act. The committee's longstanding view is that all instruments should be subject to appropriate parliamentary oversight with limited exemptions from disallowance. Where an instrument is exempt, the committee expects a detailed justification to be included in the explanatory statement. The disallowance process is a vital tool for the parliament to appropriately debate and scrutinise delegated legislation.</para>
<para>In 2023 the committee, via its secretariat, continued to engage directly with relevant agencies to gather information or seek clarification to resolve minor technical scrutiny concerns. I remind ministers and their agencies that the committee's guidelines set out the committee's work practices as well as its expectation in relation to each technical scrutiny principle and how these matters should be addressed when preparing explanatory statements to legislative instruments. The guidelines are available from the secretariat and the committee's website.</para>
<para>I also wish to acknowledge the ongoing assistance of ministers and agencies. The response of ministers and agencies to the committee's inquiries is critical to ensuring the committee can perform its scrutiny function effectively.</para>
<para>On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank the committee's former and current legal advisers, Associate Professor Andrew Edgar and Professor Lorne Neudorf, as well as the committee secretariat for their assistance in 2023. As I indicated, I want to acknowledge the great work of former senator White, who chaired this committee between 3 August 2022 and 29 February 2024. I commend the annual report of 2023 to the Senate.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation's <inline font-style="italic">Delegated legislation monitor 5</inline><inline font-style="italic"> of</inline><inline font-style="italic">2024</inline> was presented out of sitting on 17 March. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>It reports on the committee's consideration of 164 legislative instruments registered between 28 February and 25 March 2024.</para>
<para>I'd like to draw the chamber's attention to the committee's comments on the Migration Amendment (Bridging Visa Conditions) Regulations 2023. The instrument amends a number of existing conditions and specifies two new conditions applying to bridging class WR visas in certain circumstances. The committee previously sought the advice of the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs about the factors that the minister takes into account in relation to whether a visa condition prescribed in the regulations is 'not reasonably necessary' for protection in the community, as well as safeguards on this discretion, such as independent merits review. The committee thanks the minister for providing advice about the relevant factors taken into account and advising that merits review is available in relation to decisions not to grant a bridging visa not subject to a prescribed condition. The committee is now seeking the ministers' advice about whether the explanatory statement can be amended to provide clarity with regard to these matters.</para>
<para>The committee is also seeking the minister's further advice about the consultation that was undertaken in relation to this instrument. While the minister advised of roundtable discussions with relevant stakeholders following commencement of the instrument, the committee is seeking further advice regarding the outcomes of these discussions and whether the consideration could be given a further legislative amendment to address the feedback provided. In this regard, I wish to emphasise the committee's expectation, under scrutiny principle (d) and the Legislation Act, that consultation be undertaken prior to a legislative instrument being made.</para>
<para>I would also like to draw the chamber's attention to the committee's comments in relation to the Biosecurity (Electronic Decisions) Determination 2023. The committee expects that, where instruments facilitate automated discretionary decision-making, there will be safeguards in place to ensure that the decision-maker exercises their discretionary powers personally and that the explanatory statement would justify why the use of automated decision-making is necessary and appropriate. In this instance, the committee had sought advice of the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry on the operation of a number of safeguards as set out in the Biosecurity Act in relation to the automated decision-making facilitated by the instrument.</para>
<para>The committee thanks the minister for his engagement and welcomes his detailed advice regarding the operation of these safeguards, including to ensure computer program decisions meet the objects of the Biosecurity Act, as well as the process for review and audit of automated decision-making. The committee is now seeking further advice from the minister as to whether this information can be incorporated into the instrument's explanatory statement.</para>
<para>To facilitate ongoing engagement with the relevant ministers about these scrutiny concerns, the committee has resolved to place a 'protective' notice of motion to disallow both instruments. This provides the committee and each minister further time to resolve the remaining scrutiny concerns.</para>
<para>Finally, I would like to draw the chamber's attention to the committee's concluding comments on the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Rules Amendment (Chapter 21 Amendments) Instrument 2024, which has the effect of creating ongoing exemptions to a number of obligations in the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights report on its inquiry into Australia's Human Rights Framework. By way of background, on 15 March 2023, the Attorney-General, the Hon. Mark Dreyfus KC, referred Australia's Human Rights Framework to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights for inquiry and report.</para>
<para>I thank all my fellow committee members for their work on this inquiry, which spanned 12 months and which conducted six public hearings. The inquiry was conducted in a cordial and cooperative matter. I and other coalition members of the committee—Senator Rennick and the member for Bowman, who was the deputy chair—do not support the enactment of a federal human rights act as proposed by the Human Rights Commission and have provided a dissenting report to the chair's report that was tabled today.</para>
<para>The Australian Human Rights Commission's proposal, frankly, is a bizarre reimagining of human rights, with key rights deleted or distorted. Absolute rights are not recognised as such—a deliberate devaluation of internationally recognised protections for the freedom of thought, conscience, religion and belief. No justification can be found for extinguishing or reducing the fundamental rights in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the ICCPR, in the way which has been proposed via this human rights act. Proponents of the AHRC proposal have failed to demonstrate that our current systems are not providing adequate protection of human rights or that their reform model would achieve preferable outcomes where current protection is lacking. An Australian human rights act would be unnecessary, divisive and dangerous and should not be adopted by this government.</para>
<para>Coalition members are concerned that the inquiry sought to produce an example bill of what a human rights act would look like. It is an extremely unusual step for a committee to provide its own draft of a bill, I think. The example bill appended to the inquiry report has not been in any way subject to any public consultation or indeed expert review. Coalition members consider this legislative model a concerning departure from international human rights.</para>
<para>Contrary to the principle of human rights being universal, the example bill's preamble outlines that some human rights have a particular significance for Indigenous peoples, implying a lesser significance for other Australians. Coalition members reject this assertion entirely. The proposed human rights act deviates dangerously and unjustifiably from these international standards, selectively diluting protections for our fundamental freedom while introducing ambiguous and uncertain provisions, allowing an unsupportable scope for limiting rights.</para>
<para>The proposals threaten to undermine the robustness of Australia's parliamentary democracy by empowering the judiciary to be the arbiters of contentious political issues, with excessive power to interpret such uncertain provisions. This would result in an American-style conflict between branches of government.</para>
<para>Enacting a human rights act does not provide a guarantee that rights will be sufficiently safeguarded, particularly in extraordinary times. You only need to look to Victoria, who have a human rights act. We saw during the COVID pandemic that it spectacularly failed the people that it purports to protect. When it comes to what is most needed, it was found wanting. If it cannot protect its citizens from draconian government overreach during a crisis, then how can it during ordinary times?</para>
<para>Similarly, when it comes to freedom of religion, how can we possibly trust that a human rights act will protect citizens of faith? According to the Rule of Law Institute of Australia:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the commission's model would enable the legislature to avoid taking responsibility for difficult public policy issues such as setting the limits on the manifestation of religious freedom.</para></quote>
<para>During the inquiry, widespread concern was expressed by faith groups about implementing a human rights act and its implications for freedom of religion. The Australian Christian Lobby said in their submission, in reflection on the Human Rights Commission model, that it is incompatible with Australia's treaty obligations. The Human Rights Law Alliance were also critical of the AHRC's lack of prioritisation of religious freedom. In a blunt assessment, the Human Rights Law Alliance said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The AHRC model should be scrapped altogether. It cannot be described as upholding human rights when it undermines so significantly key rights which are intended for Australians under international law.</para></quote>
<para>Rather than fixing the lack of religious protections or inserting new safeguards, the commission's model actually creates more imbalances. Its model elevates some rights above others, increasing the imbalance.</para>
<para>The coalition members reject this report. We reject what the majority on the committee have recommended. We reject the proposal to have a human rights act in Australia. Our position was supported by Christian Schools Australia, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is a significant retrograde step for the protection of religious freedom. It replicates and reinforces one of the fundamental weaknesses of existing domestic bill of rights type legislation.</para></quote>
<para>Here we are again, seeing that the Labor government is proposing yet more division and elevating some rights above others. Have they learned nothing from the failed Voice referendum? Let us have faith in our democratic institutions and continue to trust in the principles that have served our country for so long. Promoting and enhancing human rights in Australia requires an approach that fosters unity and trust within the community rather than one that divides.</para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>80</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025, Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7187" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7188" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7186" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7190" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7189" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the consideration of the Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024 and four related bills has expired. We come to sheet 2660, standing in the name of the Australian Greens.The question before the Senate is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator McKim be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:04]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the second reading amendment circulated by Senator Thorpe on sheet 2687 be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Senator Thorpe's circulated amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Independent Review of the National Legal Assistance Partnership 2020-2025 (NLAP) found that current funding is far below what is needed for critical legal assistance services to meet growing demand,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the NLAP made 39 recommendations for significantly increased funding for legal assistance services and changes to the way funding is delivered which the Government has not yet responded to,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the May budget allocated $41.4 million to legal assistance services, with just $15.4 million of that earmarked for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services sector, which was calling for $229 million in funding to meet increased demand and operational costs; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to provide the full amount of recommended urgent funding for legal assistance programs to provide lifesaving support services".</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:08] <br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Original question agreed to.<br />Bills read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Support for Small Business and Charities and Other Measures) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7081" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Support for Small Business and Charities and Other Measures) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration of House of Representatives Message</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate does not further insist on its amendments to which the House of Representatives has insisted on disagreeing.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to the order agreed to earlier today, I am required to put the question immediately. The question is that the Senate does not further insist on its amendments to which the House has insisted on disagreeing.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</continue>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:14] <br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7169" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand to make a contribution to the debate on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024, which amends the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 to ban the importation, domestic manufacture, supply, commercial possession and advertisement of disposable single-use and non-therapeutic vapes. The bill preserves patients' access to therapeutic vapes for smoking cessation and the management of nicotine dependence under clinical conditions. The bill will impact the sale and supply of non-nicotine vaping products, as vapes containing nicotine are already subject to restrictions under the Poisons Standard classification.</para>
<para>The coalition will not stand in the way of this bill passing the Senate. This brings both non-nicotine and nicotine vapes under the same framework, treating both categories of vaping product in the same way. It creates a single framework under the TGA for the regulation of all vaping products regardless of their nicotine content. We agree with the principle of all vapes being treated the same way under the TGA, and we would use the same framework as part of our strictly regulated retail model.</para>
<para>We've been clear from the get-go that it is our priority to protect Australian children from the harms of vaping, and, in line with that priority, we will not stand in the way of this change. No-one wants to see Australian children having access to vaping products or becoming addicted to vaping, and the coalition's primary concern is preventing children from getting access to these products. We've focused on stamping out the organised-crime driven black market that is supplying these illegal vapes to children. Let's be clear: it has always been illegal to sell vaping products to children, but, under Labor, Australian kids are being targeted by a thriving and dangerous black market. The Albanese Labor government has failed to control the illicit vaping market and has failed to protect children against the proliferation of vaping products. Labor's prohibition-style approach plays straight into the hands of organised crime syndicates, who are profiting massively from the sale of illegal vapes.</para>
<para>We do not want to see organised crime continue to thrive across the country under this weak government, placing community safety further at risk. It is these criminals who would benefit from the government's plan to double down on the failing medical model. This is why greater scrutiny of this legislation was absolutely essential and why the coalition pushed for a Senate inquiry into the issue. It would have been completely irresponsible not to demand further investigation of this very serious issue. We note the findings of the inquiry, including submissions that raise significant concerns about the failure of the current model. Notably, the inquiry highlighted how the illicit vaping black market is out of control and thriving in Australia. Right now it is illegal to buy a nicotine vape without a prescription, yet kids are still getting ready access to flavoured vapes in coloured packaging that contain nicotine. The latest National Drug Strategy Household Survey found that one in 10 Australians under 18 are currently vapers. This represents a fourfold increase since 2019. This is unacceptable.</para>
<para>It is clear that the current model is failing. Right now less than 10 per cent of Australian vapers are purchasing their product through the prescription model. Even the TGA has acknowledged that the prescription-only model has not achieved its goals. Entrenching the existing failing medical model will not prevent children from having access to vaping products, and it will further drive the sale of these products to the black market. So the Albanese government has been doubling down on an approach that is simply not working. In fact, they've even conceded that their model is failing by making a last-minute dirty deal with the Greens. This deal seeks to have vapes sold by completely unwilling pharmacists.</para>
<para>We know that pharmacists want to use their valuable time to provide primary care advice to the community and, as they themselves have said, not to become tobacconists or garbologists. Pharmacists have made it clear that they do not support this model and take exception to being forced to take on the role of dispensers and disposers. The core role of our community pharmacists is to dispense registered medicines and provide important primary care support and advice to the Australian community. The Labor-Greens policy completely undermines that core role. It also sends a concerning message to Australians, who would see vaping products being sold next to essential medicines like children's Panadol behind the pharmacy counter. This greatly undermines the government's own policy of quality use of medicines.</para>
<para>This last-minute, harebrained, snap decision to buy the Greens' support has clearly not been thought through. There are a litany of issues that have not been addressed prior to making this announcement—issues like: the fact that the Queensland medicines and poisons law requires schedule 3 medicines to be recorded, including the person's name, yet Labor and the Greens say this information won't be collected; the likelihood that pharmacists simply will not stock these vapes anyway; and the potential impact of liability and insurance on pharmacies, let alone the need for pharmacies to find the storage area within their stores to store the vapes and manage disposal.</para>
<para>This is just another demonstration of the complete contempt that the Labor Party has for the 6,000 small businesses that are Australia's community pharmacy sector—the very same people who kept their doors open during COVID. In rural, regional and remote areas, they are often the only health professional in town. Yet the government didn't even give the courtesy of speaking to the Pharmacy Guild or the Pharmacy Society about this dirty deal they've done with the Greens. They first heard about it when they heard it in the media—another example of no consultation, of just forcing policy onto Australian businesses without any consideration of the impact on those businesses or the staff who work in those stores. And the government's senseless and chaotic approach will not protect the health outcomes of young Australians, who are already buying illicit vaping products. The mess Labor has made on this vaping policy will only drive more Australians into the hands of the black market.</para>
<para>But it is also clear that if you're serious about stopping children vaping you've also got to be serious about enforcement. The resourcing of enforcement measures at the borders and at the point of sale have been grossly insufficient under the Albanese Labor government. Currently vaping is a multibillion dollar business in Australia, and the black market is already estimated to be worth in excess of $1 billion. More than 100 million illicit disposable devices are estimated to be sold on the black market each year. In Victoria alone, the black market for vapes has been valued at up to $500 million.</para>
<para>Yet this thriving black market is still going largely unchecked. The government has yet to establish or fund the promised illicit tobacco and vaping commissioner they agreed to fund to get this thriving black market under control. Last year, when confronted during the debate on Public Health (Tobacco and Other Products) Bill 2023 about their failure to address enforcement, the government agreed to support the coalition's amendment to establish a new illicit tobacco and e-cigarette commissioner within the Australian Border Force. However, since the government announced they would act on the amendment in January, we have not seen any evidence at all that this critically important commissioner has actually been established. Once again, the Albanese government have proven they're all announcement but no action and they just aren't up for the job of cracking down on organised crime. Enforcement is the critical component of cracking down on this issue, but right now the vaping black market is thriving under Labor's watch.</para>
<para>We, the coalition, are serious about stamping down on the black market and we're serious about protecting children. That's why the coalition has announced that we will invest another $250 million towards law enforcement efforts. That's 10 times more than the Albanese Labor government. The funding will be used to set up an illegal tobacco and vaping taskforce led by the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Border Force to tackle illegal vapes from the border to the shopfront. The critical investment into enforcement will form part of alternative approach to vaping, which will crack down on the black market and protect Australia's children.</para>
<para>A coalition will introduce a strictly regulated retail model for vaping products under the TGA to put a stop to the dodgy retailers selling vapes to Australian children with impunity through the rampant black market. This model will include a licensing scheme, prevention campaigns and a strong enforcement effort as part of a sensible approach to keeping money out of the hands of criminals while stopping the sale of vapes to our children. Our regulated approach will also address the dangerous and unknown chemicals contained in illegal vapes by placing strict requirements on safety and quality.</para>
<para>Bringing Australia in line with European countries, a regulated model is in the best interest of both public health outcomes and law enforcement. Only a coalition has the strength to be honest with the Australian public about this very real issue. The government's senseless and chaotic approach will not protect the health outcomes for young Australians who are already buying illicit vaping products. Regulating the vaping market through strict and sensible retail based policies will protect our kids from the harms of vaping and protect our community from organised crime.</para>
<para>Once again, the coalition's priority remains protecting children from the harms of vaping. We're committed to cracking down on organised crime in the black market that has been bolstered by the Albanese government's insistence on doubling down on a failed model. That is why I'll be moving a second reading amendment that calls on the government to move alternative regulatory models such as our strictly regulated retail model if its bill and the medical model it continues to pursue is proven to fail. There is no sense in continuing with an approach that just simply is not working. The coalition is only interested in a model that does work. This is in the best interest of our public health outcomes and community safety.</para>
<para>Whilst we won't stand in the way of this legislation passing the chamber, the coalition condemns the government for doing a dirty deal with the Greens, a deal that shows a weak government in chaos, a government desperate to get their legislation through such that they're prepared to drop a policy on our frontline primary care workers, professionals and pharmacists without notice or consultation. I move the second reading amendment standing in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) provide definitive and objective measures on what it considers constitutes the success or failure of this bill; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if these measures are not met, move to alternative regulatory models such as allowing vaping products to be sold in general retail".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I speak tonight on behalf of the Greens on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. I begin by acknowledging that the rising rates of nicotine dependence in our community are a significant public health problem. We have been deeply concerned about the explosion of vaping rates among our children. The status quo in Australia is far from ideal, and reform to ensure that the tobacco industry's grip on our community is broken and long overdue.</para>
<para>The tobacco industry has been prioritising its profits taken at the expense of the wellbeing of our community for far too long. It is shameful that the policy settings of this country have allowed a new generation to become addicted to nicotine. These harmful products have been allowed to feature cartoon characters, to be accessible to kids within 100 metres of a school and have enabled them to be sold where products have been and often are targeted to children. In addition, we have seen products sold in Australia despite them being unsafe, falsely labelled and with dangerous, unknown ingredients often contained within them.</para>
<para>The Greens welcomed the referral of this bill to inquiry. It was essential that the community have the opportunity to feed back on this legislation. Through that inquiry, I was committed to hearing a range of perspectives. I've heard from people who have been long-term cigarette smokers who feel that vaping has improved their health and wellbeing. I've heard from healthcare professionals who are concerned about the unknown impacts of vaping products. I've heard from people who have business interests in vaping product who feel they've done the right thing to this point. I've heard from parents and teachers about their deep concerns about the impacts of vapes on our young people. I've heard from schoolkids who have shared with me how access to vapes have contributed to peer pressure and to bullying. What has been clear is that the status quo is failing. It is failing far too many. It is time for change.</para>
<para>The Greens have come to this debate with a clear-eyed acknowledgement that the war on drugs—prohibition—has failed. At the heart of this failure is a deep desire of politicians to criminalise people who are experiencing drug dependency. We cannot let that continue for people who are dependent on nicotine vaping products. Our goal through this process has been to ensure that we get vapes out of the hands of kids, while ensuring that adults can access therapeutic vaping product and guaranteeing that there is no chance that an individual is criminalised for possessing a personal vape.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens felt that the original legislation proposed by the government did not meet these goals. This is why we have used our role in the Senate to chart a pathway away from a restrictive, costly policy to one that strikes a greater balance. The Greens have secured carefully crafted amendments that will enable the creation of an equally carefully regulated scheme that focuses on public health outcomes, reducing harm and minimalising use, particularly among children. I acknowledge the government for working constructively with us to secure these changes, which will be presented as government amendments. It is with these amendments that the Greens will support the legislation's passage through the Senate.</para>
<para>I'd now like to step through what exactly the Greens have secured. Let's be clear; these are significant changes to the government's prescription-only model that risked criminalising people for possessing vapes for personal use. The first significant change and improvement is an amendment to the legislation from a GP-prescription model to a pharmacist-only medication for adults over 18 years of age. This will see nicotine vaping products become a schedule 3 medication, where an adult can go to a pharmacy, have a conversation with a pharmacist and get a therapeutic vaping product. This product will be in plain packaging, and the ingredients will be clearly marked. At the end of the day, this will mean that many people will not need to go to their GP—perhaps taking time off work to do so—to then pay out-of-pocket to get a repeat prescription. This will save people hundreds of dollars a year. GPs will still be able to prescribe vaping products—something we have ensured for people who want to have the support of their GP for smoking cessation—and, importantly, GPs will be able to be part of the support system for people under the age of 18 who have become, often unintentionally, addicted to nicotine. GPs will still be able to prescribe vaping products, something we have ensured for people who want to have the support of their GP for smoking cessation. Importantly, GPs will be able to be part of the support system for people under the age of 18 who have become, often unintentionally, addicted to nicotine.</para>
<para>Our second change and significant improvement is that the Greens have ensured that people will not be criminalised for their possession of personal vapes. It is not well known that the original proposal from the government had a pathway for individuals to face hefty fines and criminal charges for personal possession of vaping products. The Greens have secured and ensured that there will be an exemption for personal use, and we have additionally secured an amnesty period for individuals until 30 June 2025. I hope that this will provide some certainty to community, and I note that there will still be strong penalties for people seeking to make a profit and sell vapes in commercial quantities. Again, we have struck a balance by increasing access to vaping products for adults while ensuring that we reduce the impact of the tobacco industry.</para>
<para>Thirdly, in striking this balance, we must acknowledge that this legislation will be a first. In fact, it will be a world-leading piece of legislation. Because of this, the Greens felt it was vital to legislate a review of this policy. Because of our work, the Greens have ensured that these policy settings can be evaluated and community can give feedback, and community feedback will be sought. To ensure a robust review, we urge the government to focus on improved data collection, and we also urge the government to actually invest in education for our community. Ultimately, the goal of this review will be to ensure we have the harm reduction settings right.</para>
<para>Fourthly, many in our community have raised concerns about the number of disposable vaping products that are littering our streets and our waterways. We do not have a clear picture of just how many vaping products are thrown out across Australia each year, but we do know that people are hoping to do the right thing—that is, to responsibly dispose of a product containing a lithium battery. There are few places in Australia where you can do so. This is why the Greens have pushed to make it easier to safely dispose of vaping products by getting the government to expand their Return Unwanted Medicines program to allow for disposable vapes. What this means in real terms is that people can take their unwanted vapes to a pharmacy and dispose of them safely.</para>
<para>This commitment to take back vaping products will go a long way to getting lithium batteries out of our waterways and out of our landfills and reduce the risk of lithium-battery-related fires. We know that many are concerned about the increasing incidence of lithium ion battery fires. Indeed, the <inline font-style="italic">7.30</inline> report has revealed that lithium ion batteries have caused more than 1,000 fires in the last year alone. Of course, this is not just about vaping products, but nonetheless it is clear that this government had failed to address the problem of lithium batteries. The Greens amendments will reduce the risk, but we urge the government to do more to invest in solutions for the recycling of lithium batteries and other vaping components.</para>
<para>The fifth improvement the Greens have secured to this legislation is that advertising of vaping products to healthcare practitioners will be further restricted. This amendment recognises that the marketing tactics used by the tobacco and vaping industry can often be incredibly unethical and that healthcare professionals providing vapes to adults should not be subjected to that. The Greens have heard from the community and from public health organisations like the Cancer Council of Australia that they have concerns about big tobacco having an avenue to influence pharmacists and to do so in an unethical way. This amendment will restrict that in order to keep vapes within a therapeutic framework rather than a profit framework. Lastly, but by no means less importantly, the Greens have secured additional funding commitments from the government to support young people quitting vaping.</para>
<para>To close my contribution: we must ensure that no-one is incentivised to return to cigarette smoking and that people can get the support that they need when they need it. That's why the Greens have been willing to work with the government to amend the legislation to ensure that no person will be criminalised for personal possession of vapes and that people can access therapeutic vapes as needed. We have also ensured a review of the legislation so that we can ensure that it is meeting its harm reduction goals.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. We all know that the Albanese Labor government is taking strong action to reduce smoking and stamp out vaping, particularly among young Australians, because we know that young people are being targeted by the corporations to get them hooked on vaping, just as the previous generations were hooked on tobacco. We are making the tough calls to ensure that, through strong legislation, enforcement, education and support, vaping will be eradicated in this country.</para>
<para>This bill builds on Australia's pioneering tobacco control reforms, including our world-first tobacco plain packaging reforms and the Public Health (Tobacco and Other Products) Act 2023, which was passed in parliament in December. Aligned with these previous reforms, the Albanese government is now introducing world-leading vape reforms to prevent serious, current and future public health problems. Lung cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in Australia, and First Nations communities carry a much higher burden of both smoking and cancer, such that cancer is now the leading cause of disease related death for First Nations people. We know young people who vape are three times more likely to take up smoking, so is it any wonder that under-25s are the only cohort in the community currently recording an increase in smoking rates? Vaping is creating a whole new generation of nicotine dependency in our community. It poses a major threat to Australia's success in tobacco control and the Albanese government is not going to stand by and let this happen. After nine years of delay and inaction by the former government, the gains of Labor's world-leading plain packaging reforms were squandered. Australia must reclaim its position as a world leader on tobacco control. These reform measures will help protect the health of Australians while reducing the pressure on our health system, and, critically, they will help to achieve a reduction in smoking rates to five per cent or less by 2030.</para>
<para>Vaping is a public health scourge. The immense risk and the immense rise in vaping amongst young people are so disturbing. The latest national data is showing that, in the year to June 2023, one in six high school students had recently vaped—a fourfold increase since the previous survey in 2017. This is a public crisis amongst Australia's youth. This is why the Labor government under Anthony Albanese is taking and has taken decisive action on this issue to save the lives of young Australians now addicted to vaping. The bill addresses these concerns through strong legislation and enforcement. It represents the centrepiece of vaping reform and supplements import controls that were instituted at the border earlier this year.</para>
<para>The bill will ban the importation, manufacturing and supply of commercial possession of disposable, single-use vapes while preserving safe—I repeat: safe—access to vapes through pharmacy settings for smoking cessation and the management of nicotine dependency. To achieve this outcome, the bill extends the operation of the Therapeutic Goods Act to all vapes irrespective of their nicotine content or therapeutic claims. This is appropriate and necessary in the circumstances to address strategies used by companies and criminal syndicates to avoid detection and seizure by mislabelling vapes to conceal their nicotine content. Such tactics for too long have frustrated compliance and enforcement efforts by the Therapeutic Goods Administration, Border Force authorities and the states and territories by requiring laboratory testing of the vapes before any action is taken. We are putting an end to that. These measures will help address the significant threat to public health caused by cigarettes and vaping and maintain Australia's hard-fought success in tobacco control.</para>
<para>Under the bill, there are significant penalties for the importation, manufacture and supply of commercial disposable, single-use, non-therapeutic vapes. These deterrence measures will aim to stamp out vaping. Consistent with the federal cooperation scheme, the Commonwealth will take responsibility for enforcing importation, manufacture, sponsor, supply and advertisement. The states and territories will take responsibility for enforcing wholesale supply, retail supply and commercial possession. The Australian Border Force will lead enforcement at the border. The Therapeutic Goods Administration and state and territory health officers will exercise powers and functions in unison with police authorities as required, particularly crucial when dealing with organised crime.</para>
<para>The focus of the bill is to criminalise unlawful advertising and supply and to bring the lawful supply of vapes under the expert supervision of pharmacies. Strengthening the regulation for all vapes through enhancing border controls, banning all disposable, single-use and non-therapeutic vapes and ending the supply of vapes outside of pharmacy settings will make it easier to identify and disrupt the illicit supply and the advertisement of vapes and to take appropriate enforcement action. This is needed to protect young Australians. It is really that simple.</para>
<para>Under the Therapeutic Goods Act there will be offences and civil penalties for commercial possession of unlawful vapes. These offences and penalties being created are aimed at unlawful retailers and operators as well as other persons with significant quantities of vapes who deny any involvement in commercial supply. Our government is not interested in penalising vape users. Those looking to quit smoking will be able to access vapes at pharmacies even without a prescription if they are over the age of 18. This bill is about strong deterrence from illegal conduct that has the potential to harm an entire generation of future Australians. We don't want kids using vapes within our schools or outside of them. They are a killer and they set people up for a lifetime of poor health and wellbeing.</para>
<para>Vapes are being sold to the Australian community as a therapeutic good that will help those seeking to quit cigarette smoking, and so it is entirely appropriate to regulate them as therapeutic goods with controls that simultaneously ensure legitimate access for adults and provide sound public protection specifically for countless young Australian children. We must act now to stop the importation and the manufacturing of these vapes in our country and we must stop these illegal vapes from coming across our borders. Our future generations depend on us taking these measures to protect them and their health going forward. The Albanese government has been listening to Australian parents, Australian school communities and Australian health leaders. We want every Australian to grow up in a country that supports them to be the best and the healthiest they can be.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, not everyone in this place shares that same attitude. Indeed, the National Party have declared unanimously that they are going to oppose treating vapes like the deadly poison that they are. On Monday, the Australian Medical Association spoke out against the dangerous and irresponsible position taken by the Leader of the Nationals, saying that their stance 'shows a complete disregard for the health of Australians'. We have health experts, the AMA, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is incomprehensible that when confronted with these facts your party—</para></quote>
<para>the National Party—</para>
<quote><para class="block">appears to want to gamble with people's—</para></quote>
<para>lives. In particular, they're prepared to gamble with our children's health.</para>
<para>The Hon. David Littleproud MP, the Leader of the Nationals, called this bill a tax grab. He called looking out for children's health and regulating and controlling this deadly poison a cash grab. The coalition can be as cynical as they like, but all they're doing is playing into the hands of the tobacco companies. I wonder why the Nationals would be doing that! It is because they're the political party that still takes donations from the tobacco companies. Maybe that's a bit of a vested interest.</para>
<para>As I've said many times in this place, vaping is a scourge, and it's a scourge not just here in Australia but around the world. In Europe and in the US, vaping is a huge problem, as it is here. But Australia is leading the way once again, just as we did with reform to cigarette advertising and plain tobacco packaging. We took the lead when we were last in government and have built on that since we've come into government now. We did it for our nation and for the health and wellbeing of all Australians, and I hope that other jurisdictions around the world, which are being manipulated by organised crime and preyed upon by those who are also trying to exploit the Australian community, will see the lead that we've taken, as a Labor government, in the interests of the health and wellbeing of Australians and will follow suit.</para>
<para>If you care about the next generation and about the health and wellbeing of Australians, I'm urging you to vote for this legislation. Vote for this legislation because it is good for public health, it is good for young Australians and, most importantly, it's good for the entire community. I've listened to local principals, teachers and parents in my home state of Tasmania speaking openly and often, contacting me and asking that we display leadership on this. They are so concerned about the damage that is being done to young Australians. In fact, it's not just high school students that are vaping; it's happening in our primary schools. So I urge those opposite to put the health of young Australians and Australians more generally at the forefront of the decision that they make, and I urge them to support this legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was sitting here waiting to talk, I was wondering whether I would take the high road or the low road in this debate on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. Prompted by the assertions of the last speaker, I'll probably take the low road.</para>
<para>What we've heard is a rambling about the National Party motives on this that would have been better distributed by a fertiliser truck on an open field than in any debate in the parliament. What we hear is that the Nationals are taking donations and therefore they must support the tobacco industry. By that theory, the Labor Party must be taking money from organised crime because 92 per cent of the vapes distributed in Australia are distributed by organised crime and criminal gangs, including bikie gangs and triads. That is the extension of that thought. It is so farcical that it is a joke, but that is the extension. If the eight per cent of industry, of big tobacco, that supply people who are getting their prescriptions are responsible for us taking this view, then I say the criminal gangs, the triads and the bikie gangs are responsible for Labor's policy, because that is where they stand. By not fighting the illegal supply of vapes, that is what's going on here.</para>
<para>I'll come back to the high road for a little bit. The good part about this bill is single-use vapes—get rid of them. They are wrong. They are what our kids use. They are easily brought in and they are hard to get rid of. They don't belong here, except for use by people with fine-motor-skills issues who can't reload the cartridges and the batteries. We may need a niche of prescription single-use vapes for those people. This doesn't go there, but I think there could be exceptions made for people who don't have the fine motor skills to reload the cartridges and batteries.</para>
<para>If we come to the mischief that everyone in the chamber—Labor, us, the Greens and the crossbenchers—want to stop, it is youths getting their hands on vapes. Let's not kid ourselves: every vape that an underage kid has taken to school, used or got somehow is illegal. It has been sold illegally, imported illegally and distributed illegally. They don't get their hands on the prescription, though there may be cases where they steal Mum's or Dad's prescription; I'll give you that. But we all want to stop that, and, philosophically, there is just a difference in how to do that.</para>
<para>Everyone is coming to this argument with their heart in the right place. I get that. That's what we want to do. But the evidence is clear: regulated vaping, where people have things to lose, stops illegal vaping more than prohibition. Almost every country in the world has vapes. It is like America in the thirties banning alcohol, when all their neighbours had it. You cannot stop it. Prisons ban smoking and drugs, and they still get in. That is the reality of what we're dealing with. The kids will still get their hands on vapes. Let's not kid ourselves: under this bill, under our policy or under any policy, kids will still get their hands on vapes. What I want is traceability of products, so I know where they come from, where they're made. I want suppliers who have traceable ingredients, with a limited batch of ingredients, so I can go out and take action against companies that do the wrong thing. We can ban companies. We can give prohibitions. We can put penalties on them for supplying vapes that hurt people.</para>
<para>There is evidence—it was even on <inline font-style="italic">60 </inline><inline font-style="italic">M</inline><inline font-style="italic">inutes</inline> on Thursday night—about the ingredients that go into vapes. Drugs of the morphine variety that are thousands of times more powerful are being included. We have seen the Queensland Health analysis of vapes in their schools, where they contain formaldehyde and all manner of things. That is what we are trying to stop, and all of this chamber is on that page. That is good and that is the upside, but I believe firmly in allowing industry to supply goods to fight the illegal access and prevent criminals from bringing these things in. Starting on this pathway is a step in the right direction.</para>
<para>We hear those opposite and those in the corner talk about the tactics used by industry and big tobacco to get people hooked. These are crime gangs. We see them firebombing vapes stores. We see them threatening people in convenience stores. This isn't big tobacco; this is serious organised crime, as was said by the Australian Federal Police, in one of our hearings, and as was said by the police union. It is not big tobacco and it is not industry. They are criminals. And why do they do this? It's because the profits are real—massive—and the penalties have been short. I support the increase in penalties. I think any increase in enforcement is good. I don't think it's strong enough. I support Senator Ruston's point about a $250 million funding increase for policing, between AFP and Border Force. That is going somewhere near this. Let's get these penalties right. Let's put these people away, because it is wrong.</para>
<para>So we go to the mischief and stopping the kids. I believe a regulated model is better for that. But then I go to the estimated 1.4 million users of vapes across Australia right now. Again, they're mostly using illegal vapes—they don't know what goes into them—but some are using Australian made non-nicotine vapes. We'll talk about that industry a little bit later. Name anyone that doesn't have a vice, a hobby or something to do. People should be able to use vapes if they want to, in my opinion. It is not nicotine that causes cancer; it is smoking that causes cancer. If nicotine can be bought in gums, patches and pouches, why can nicotine not come in vapes? It is tobacco and smoking that cause the problem here, and over a million Australians, 1.7 million, have a right to use vapes and have access to them. It is their choice. I know pokies are a tax on stupidity, but I'll still have a slap every now and then. I know alcohol causes brain cells to die—and I haven't got many to spare!—but I'll still have a drink now and then. People can choose their way forward.</para>
<para>I say to those people out there: this model will have you going to a business that does not want to sell vapes and where you don't want to buy them, a pharmacy. There has not been enough consultation on that. I get what we're saying about the Greens amendment here and how this will improve things. I think it comes from a place of good intentions, but I think it falls short in what it will do. That's why I liked the fact that Senator Ruston, our shadow health spokesperson, got out there today and said, 'A fully regulated model is where we'll go in the next election,' because I think that fixes those problems, and the vapers out there will be able to go to a licensed store, which has something to lose, to buy the products that they want and not feel persecuted.</para>
<para>I come back to the Australian manufacturers of non-nicotine vapes and even retail vape stores. This has come on quickly for them. I note this bill does not offer one cent in compensation—no relocation of their business and no help for their business to get out. There are people who we heard of who have invested millions of dollars, who make non-nicotine vapes in Australia, who have the equipment, who get inspected, who buy their products and who get them regulated. They are stuck there with nothing now. People with leases on their licensed tobacco vaping stores now will not have a business, but they'll still be stuck in the lease. There's nothing for them, and that is not good enough.</para>
<para>We talk about the enforcement again. I sat on the main street in East Maitland while I was up there for a visit, and I watched from the IGA as, three doors down from a police car with police in it, people in school uniforms walked into a tobacconist vape store and walked out with a product. That is how easy it is to get. I have never smoked or vaped in my life. In Canberra, I found a place and put it on card in 15 minutes. Why? We heard from the police associations that they are so busy dealing with domestic violence, organised crime and other real issues that they can't go in and check where these vapes come from. I know it's a state issue because we are responsible for the wall around us to stop this stuff coming in. We haven't done it successfully. We say, 'We've caught this many hundred thousand vapes,' which is nothing in the overall supply. But enforcement has to be there. There needs to be more in this. There needs to be more money for the state policing organisations to resource the police to do this. There needs to be a taskforce set up to stop people selling these things. This doesn't do that.</para>
<para>In the end, what have we got? We had a bill that prohibited vaping unless it was with a script from a doctor. Many places don't have doctors that will see you to do it. Many doctors are uncomfortable giving a script for vaping. It was a pretty rubbish bill, other than the single-use ban. Then, as I said in the party room today, the Greens come along and say: 'Hold my beer. I can make it a little more stupid by having people who don't want to sell it sell it over the counter.' They've done that.</para>
<para>This is not a good bill. This doesn't stop vapes that we don't know the origin, contents and damage of from ending up in Australia. We will see more fire bombings in Melbourne. We will see more threats to shop owners. We will see more damage to young people. We will see more drive-by shootings because of this bill. The gang wars in Victoria especially are alive and well because there is money to be made in illegal vapes, and this doesn't stop it. I am disappointed in this bill. I am disappointed it doesn't go far enough to hurt the harm. I'm disappointed it doesn't help people who enjoy vaping and have a right to vape—nicotine or non-nicotine—out there in the world. And I'm disappointed it doesn't help Australian businesses—honest, clear, good businesses until this bill gets enacted—transition in any way shape or form. We've done it on everything else but not here, and that is not fair.</para>
<para>I will sit quietly when this bill passes. It should not pass; it should be better. I know it comes from a place that wanted to do the right thing but, like so many things in this government, it falls short. It was rushed—we got, on average, four-minute blocks in our Senate hearing to talk to people. We didn't get really good questions. Once again, we want to be seen to be doing something rather than actually doing it. So we are here. We will vote on it. Our kids will not be safer. Our people who are using vapes as a method to get off smoking will not be safer. The most important thing came right at the end of the hearing, when I asked the department: 'What does success look like? What are the vaping rates and new smoking rates that we'll see because of this bill?' The answer was, 'We haven't done that yet.' So I asked: 'What does failure look like? What is the youth smoking rate that we'll accept going up if pull these vapes?' And the answer was, 'We haven't done that yet.' So, here we go. We don't know what success looks like, we don't know what failure looks like, we don't have compensation for people whose business we'll take away, and this will pass. That is sad. As I ended my statements in the committee, this is a farce, but it is a farce that will pass.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm speaking to the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. I note the government circulated 11 pages of amendments just an hour or so ago. The large number of amendments indicate the process of consultation was flawed, and concerns from senators have caused fundamental changes to this bill. Is it in, out, in or out? I hope the government learns a lesson from this and in future honours the spirit of genuine consultation. I hope it honours the committee process to produce a bill that doesn't need last-minute, wholesale changes.</para>
<para>I note the bill amends the poison schedule, to downgrade vapes from schedule 4 to schedule 3, and adds conditions to their use in that listing. When I tried to do exactly the same thing—to downgrade medical cannabis and add conditions to that listing—I was told, 'That's a very strange thing to do,' and my bill was not supported, in part because of that. Now they're doing the very strange thing that they said was very strange.</para>
<para>In Queensland, vaping products with or without nicotine are illegal unless on prescription. Vapes are subject to the same laws as cigarettes or tobacco products as to where they can be used and the circumstances in which they can be purchased. Queensland law right now prevents children under 16 accessing or using a vape. Personal health and child welfare are rightly the responsibility of the states. Yet, once again, this government seeks to increase its powers in areas where it has no Constitutional authority.</para>
<para>This bill amends the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989 and the Customs Act 1901 to limit the importation, domestic manufacture, supply, commercial and private possession, and advertising of non-therapeutic and disposable vaping goods. Over-the-counter sales at chemists will be permitted, and access to children under 18 will be via the Special Access Scheme. There are substantial differences in how possession for personal use and commercial use are handled, yet the bill does not specify this threshold, which will come later in regulation that we haven't seen. Too much of this bill will come later in regulations. The government is asking us to trust their judgement on a bill that is a litany of bad judgement. The bill defines a vape as 'anything that's held out to be a vape'. It explicitly excludes the need for a lab analysis to prove that the item is in fact a vape. Much of the bill goes into the licensing arrangements for importation, manufacture, distribution and possession.</para>
<para>The bill was developed after supposed consultation, yet the government's reaching out to selected friends in the health industry who share the same commercial interests as informed this bill is not consultation. It's an echo chamber of self-interest, as the substantial last-minute amendments now prove. Everyday Australians were not permitted to make a confidential submission. Their submissions had to be public and accompanied by a declaration of interests—something very few witnesses felt comfortable doing. In particular, this prevented personal stories of how vaping helped defeat a smoking or other addiction and weighted submissions towards self-interested corporate health providers and charities.</para>
<para>The evidentiary burden of proof in the offences under the bill are reversed. This removes the common law protection that fault must be found before an offence has been committed. While the government may find contesting charges in a court of law tiresome, 800 years of common law rights should not be so lightly dismissed and disposed of. There's no justification for reversing the burden of proof. For this reason I have submitted an amendment to this bill in the committee stage to restore the presumption of innocence enjoyed by all Australians since our country's settlement. At section 41P(1), 'vaping substance' is defined as 'any liquid or other substance for use in, or with, a vaping device'. There's no nuance in the penalties. Possessing a vaping substance carries the same penalty as possessing a vape itself.</para>
<para>People who make cakes, fudges, chocolates, lollies and similar products use the same flavourings as can be used in vape manufacture. Those flavourings shouldn't be used in vapes. They may be considered safe for stomachs, but not for lungs. Yet they are used in illegal vaping solutions, and I've received complaints from bakers that, for this reason, Border Force are seizing shipments of flavourings. Under this legislation, a baker or confectionary manufacturer importing a food flavouring that can be used in vaping must first have it approved for use, despite its being in use for generations, and then obtain a licence to import or possess commercial quantities—of cake flavouring! The importer and probably their largest customers will need to keep records of their use of these potentially illicit food flavourings to ensure that organised crime is not supplied out the back door, with penalties of up to $3.8 million and/or imprisonment for seven years. This is serious business.</para>
<para>I appreciate that this is not the intention of the bill. Yet it is the wording of the bill. I point out that the bill and the explanatory memorandum provide no guidance as to which goods should be permitted and which should not. The minister has complete power to make this decision. So far job losses from vaping prohibition are around 2,000, with 500 vaping stores already closed. The trade in vaping has now moved into the hands of organised crime, with a gang war breaking out in our capital cities to control the illicit vaping trade, as well as the illicit tobacco trade now that tobacco has been taxed to the point of idiocy. The bombings, ramraids, murders and violence so far in this underworld war are on the government, for breaking the government's social licence to act fairly, honestly and reasonably towards the public. The best interest of the public has been replaced with the best interest of crony capitalist stakeholders.</para>
<para>The last-minute deal with the Greens to add over-the-counter sales at chemists may serve to head off that outcome. Time will tell. The Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme 2022 post-market review of medicines for smoking cessation found that 550,000 prescriptions were written for smoking cessation products in 2022. And get a load of this: these included varenicline, from Pfizer, costing $194 a prescription, which in the various formulations was responsible for 2,042 Australian adverse event notifications, including 55 deaths. And there is bupropion, from Aspen pharmaceuticals, which has had 2,100 adverse event notifications, including 22 deaths. The incompetence—does it stop? The post-market review says, 'The mechanism by which bupropion enhances the ability of patients to abstain from smoking is unknown.' So, we don't know why it works. It's killed 22 people—yet, prescribe it anyway! Just don't let people buy their own vapes. We can't have smokers quitting on their own, can we?</para>
<para>The explanatory memorandum for this bill cites data from the <inline font-style="italic">Australian secondary school students</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> use of tobacco and e-cigarettes</inline> report, which states that the proliferation of vaping across the community represents a severe public health concern. Vaping has been associated with severe public health effects relating to adolescent brain development, worsened pregnancy outcomes, cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease and cancer. Vaping also carries other health effects such as burns, seizures and poisoning.</para>
<para>Let me deal with the last one first. Yes, illicit vapes do cause internal burns and cause external burns if they explode. They cause poisoning and seizures as a reaction to that poisoning. A poorly made vape will burn and put toxic chemicals into the user's lungs. Unregulated vaping in the USA caused 28 deaths coming from the use of ethylene glycol, a popular substance in commercial baking. It's considered safe to be eaten but not safe to be vaporised into the lungs. This illegal use of a legal substance is what caused the popcorn lung syndrome. Illegal vapes can contain thousands of substances we call 'compounds' when in legal products and 'chemicals' when not in legal products. There are, however, 7,000 chemicals in cigarette smoke—more than are found in a quality vape, not an illicit vape. Telling one side of the story never communicates an honest picture of the truth. It condemns you. It used to be possible to import quality vapes from New Zealand. The Labor government stopped this. Now we have unsafe, illegal vapes. Who knows what's in them? The TGA's tweets against vaping were community noted with a comprehensive bibliography of good science that counters their scare stories. I will reproduce those community notes with citations on my website for anyone who wants to educate themselves on legal, safe vaping.</para>
<para>Is vaping a gateway behaviour to smoking or drug-taking? Actually, no; it's not. On page 8 of the secondary school report, smoking rates amongst schoolchildren have fallen over the last five years. 'Ever smoked' is down from 17.5 per cent to 13.5 per cent. 'Smoked in the past week' is down from 4.9 per cent to 2.1 per cent—more than halved. This was in a period when vapes were readily available. Vaping is clearly working to reduce smoking rates. This is what has the quit smoking industry worried.</para>
<para>The UK government's periodic data review titled <inline font-style="italic">N</inline><inline font-style="italic">icotine vaping in England: </inline><inline font-style="italic">2022 e</inline><inline font-style="italic">vidence update</inline> found that 98.3 per cent of children who had not tried smoking did not try vaping. This means any increase in vaping rates is either in replacement of smoking or in conjunction with smoking. This data is in contrast to the secondary schools report which found that past month vaping alone was at 15 per cent. Let's have a look at that. The study covered vaping as a generic class, including e-cigarettes and herbal vapes, which are a large part of the vaping market. Despite the effort put into this study, no attempt was made to analyse the vapes consumers were actually using, and no firm conclusion can be drawn as to the presence of nicotine or any other regulated substance.</para>
<para>The other study the government cited, <inline font-style="italic">Australian secondary school students</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> use of alcohol and other substance</inline><inline font-style="italic">s</inline>, is alarming. It showed that 22 per cent of secondary school students had used alcohol in the past month, 10 per cent had used alcohol in the past week, and four per cent were engaging in risky drinking. Why aren't we worried about that? What hypocrisy to introduce the world's harshest legislation on vaping and ignore the elephant in the room: teenage drinking. Other drug use is down. Figures for 'used in the last month' show black market cannabis use down from 8.1 per cent to 6.6 per cent, hallucinogen use down from 1.1 per cent to 0.8 per cent, MDMA use down from 2.1 per cent to 1.1 per cent, pharmaceutical opioid use down from 1.9 per cent to 1.4 per cent, and cocaine use down from 0.8 per cent to 0.6 per cent. These small reductions are more significant than they appear. With 1.5 million Australians in the secondary school age group, every 0.1 per cent of reduction in hard drug consumption means 1,500 young Australians are not getting addicted to hard drugs. Across all types of hard drugs, the figure is over 50,000 lives saved from the misery of hard drug addiction.</para>
<para>The scare campaign that vaping is a gateway to smoking and to hard drugs is fraudulent and designed to cover up the reverse, because the reverse is true. The committee did look at the use of vaping as a smoking cessation tool and concluded the evidence was inconclusive. So there is no reason to save vaping on that account. Poor judgement indeed.</para>
<para>In their deliberations, the committee gave a thought of time to the quit smoking industry, which is funded at $500 million across forward estimates—half a billion dollars! This does not include the financial benefit of fundraising. That half a billion dollars is just the government's contribution, yet quit smoking rates have been stagnating across the Western world. Firstly, that's because the few people who still smoke have the money to afford smoking, want to smoke and will continue to smoke. Secondly, there are people for whom the current industry of gums, patches and financial blackmail is just not working. Some people have found that, where these other measures did not work, vaping did work. These are the people who will, no doubt, be forced back to smoking as a result of this bill. Imagine all those extra smokers to keep government revenue rolling in—all those extra smokers to keep the 'quit smoking' industry and taxpayer money for years to come. The financial impact statement for this bill doesn't mention the increase in revenue from smokers being forced back to smoking. I imagine it will be substantial.</para>
<para>Another failure in this bill is forfeiture. The easiest way to control vaping in schools is to allow teachers to seize vapes when they see them. That provision is not in this bill. Seizure is limited to commercial quantities seized with a court order or any good 'seized by the control of customers at the border'. The one thing this bill could do to help control adolescent vaping is to allow teachers to seize vapes, and it doesn't do that. I foreshadow my second reading amendment calling on the federal and state governments to sort out jurisdictional issues and give teachers the power to confiscate and destroy vapes brought into schools without a prescription.</para>
<para>As a result of measures to ban vaping, organised crime is moving into the illegal tobacco and vape market with horrific consequences. This is not so they can sell our children a nice bergamot herbal vape; it's so they can sell vapes laced with hard drugs to get our children hooked and to take back the market share vaping has cost them. I have said all along that vapes are as safe as the vape and the liquid inside. A better idea is to provide for a future made in Australia and allow Australian companies to produce legal, quality tested, regulated vapes and then ensure these are, firstly, kept out of the hands of children and, secondly, subject to the same restrictions on use as smoking.</para>
<para>I look forward to the government monitoring the outcome of this hasty, incomplete bill closely and acting quickly if the outcome is not as expected. I think the outcome will bring horrific consequences, so please monitor this for the sake of our children.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to speak on Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. I wholeheartedly support this bill, because fundamentally it is about protecting young Australians from the dangers of nicotine and the harms of addiction. Those harms are real, they are present and they are hurting young people in Australia and their families.</para>
<para>At the outset I want to say to every single member of this chamber: If you had an opportunity today to step back to the 1930s and to regulate tobacco differently, would you do that? If you had a chance to take action that would protect generations of Australians from the devastation and harm of smoking, would you do that? This is our moment. We know the evidence around vaping is trending in a way that shows us it is not safe. We know it is hooking a new generation of young Australians to nicotine addiction. We know the involvement of big tobacco in this industry. We know. So, if your answer is yes, that you would do things differently when it came to tobacco, then you must support the bill before us, because this is our moment to stop generations and generations of further harm.</para>
<para>Vapes were sold to Australians as a therapeutic good to help people quit smoking, and for some people that may have been the case. But we are kidding ourselves in here if we think that's the business model, because when your products are targeted directly at young people—when they are marketed on Instagram and when they are made to look like highlighters, flavoured in things like bubblegum—you cannot honestly say that is about smoking cessation; that is purely about hooking a whole new generation of Australians on a substance that is insanely difficult to break an addiction from. The only demographic which is increasing its smoking rates in our country is young people—why? Because of vaping. It is starting with vaping.</para>
<para>I chaired the inquiry into this bill, and there's a lot of rubbish in some of the additional comments in there. I'm not going to waste my time on them here, but I do want to highlight the evidence. It was overwhelmingly supportive of this bill. We heard one in four young Australians are vaping. We heard one in six high school students are vaping. These are young Australians becoming addicted to nicotine, and, more often than not, they don't even know they're consuming nicotine. They think they're using a product which is nicotine free. How do they find out? They start withdrawing from nicotine, and the impact of that on a young person, not just on their physical health but on their mental health, is extraordinary.</para>
<para>The impact on a young person, when they start going through nicotine withdrawals in the classroom—how do you think they learn at school that day? How do you think their teacher copes at school that day, when they have a young person withdrawing? They've been sold a product full of nicotine, and they don't even know it has nicotine in it. Young people are smart. They know the dangers of cigarette smoking, but when they've been given a product, marketed a product, which is said to be safe and which is targeted and focused at them, then they are making a horrific mistake. It's a mistake which has long-term consequences on their physical health, their mental health, their wellbeing, their education and their families.</para>
<para>We heard, in our committee, that 98 per cent of vapes confiscated from schoolchildren in New South Wales contained nicotine, and it is so easy for young people to get these vapes. But a 14-year-old child on the way home from school should not be able to walk into the corner store, where they buy chocolates, treats and other things, and pick up a vape. That is absurd. These products are deliberately, despicably being marketed to our kids. Allegedly nicotine is designed to look like toys, and nine out of 10 of the vape stores which are selling these products are within walking distance of our schools.</para>
<para>Big tobacco is setting our kids up to become addicted. It's a business model rolled out before, with devastating consequences and devastating harm, and it is not okay. Our committee heard from teachers and principals about the impact of nicotine addiction on their students—how it impacted their learning, how it impacted school harmony—and the burden it was placing on teachers because of the enforcement role required of them and because of having to deal with this in their classrooms. Teachers told us that they were struggling. They didn't want to be policing the schoolyard for these vapes. They didn't want to be experiencing the disharmony in schools.</para>
<para>We heard from health experts about the impact of nicotine addiction on the health of young people, and of how it can manifest in things like aggression, anxiety, sleeplessness and depression. These are terrible consequences being borne by our youngest citizens.</para>
<para>Our party, the Labor Party, has always led on tobacco reform. Plain packaging, under former minister Nicola Roxon, was a game changer. She had a hell of a fight to get there at the time, with the opposition leader calling it a bridge too far, but those reforms worked. They had an impact. Then we had a decade of stagnation under the coalition government. Do you know what happens when governments stagnate on tobacco reform? Big tobacco wins, and we are seeing that now. We are seeing it in smoking rates among young people. We are seeing it in the uptake of vapes. I think it's time that our country returned to its status as a leader on smoking reform and on tobacco reform.</para>
<para>This bill isn't about going after the vapers; so many of them have been sold a lie. It's about stopping the supply of vapes. It's about ensuring that those few Australians who genuinely find value in vaping on their pathway to quitting smoking can do so with support, guidance and care, because giving up nicotine is extremely hard, and you need that help; you need that care. For those genuinely using vapes to help them quit smoking, it is going to be more effective if you have help from a healthcare professional when you're trying to do so.</para>
<para>I ask senators in this chamber again: if you were a regulator holding the role you hold now back in the 1930s, back when cigarettes were first allowed on the market, knowing everything you know about the harm they have caused, the lives they have stolen and the damage they have done to our country, what would you have done then? Would you have let them onto the market? Would you have regulated them differently? If you vote no to this legislation, you are saying you would take exactly the same decision again. If you genuinely believe that we could have done something better back then and you can see the evidence that vaping is trending in the same way as cigarettes were nearly a century ago, you need to support this legislation. We cannot afford to make the same mistakes in Australia that we did with cigarettes. We cannot afford to make those mistakes.</para>
<para>The No. 1 conversation I'm having with parents in South Australia at the moment is about vaping. They are alarmed about the impact of vaping on their kids. They're horrified by it. It's what teachers are telling me too. It's what principals are telling me as well and so are young people who have inadvertently developed a nicotine addiction from using these products. We have seen so much suffering in Australia from tobacco use and nicotine addiction. We have a chance to do something about this growing source of addiction, this growing source of harm. We cannot oversee generations and generations of addiction and mass suffering from a product built by big tobacco again. So I implore all senators to vote for this bill, and I commend it to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have been listening to the debate on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024 so far and I have to speak about what is the reality of the world in North Queensland. I agree with everything that previous senators have said about the risks of vaping, but I don't think there is a genuine understanding that it is only about seven or eight per cent of vapes that are legally supplied. The rest of them are illegally supplied not by big tobacco but by illegal factories in China importing them into Australia with no oversight and massive biosecurity risks. Illegal shops are setting up right around the country that are being run by crime lords and bikie gangs. We are feeding an illegal industry of criminals. We are doing that because we are not properly funding police in North Queensland. They can tell me where there is illegal activity, but they have no funding and it is not prioritised. It is not prioritised in the tasks of things they need to deal with, particularly the crime wave and youth crime problems that we have in North Queensland.</para>
<para>So, every time somebody says that we have to do something about vapes, I completely agree. But the government is doubling down on failed legislation. This is well outside putting it into the unwilling hands of pharmacies to sell. We are now expecting them to police vapes? In Queensland, contrary to the legislation and the deal that has been done between Labor and the Greens, for section 3 drugs the buyer has to provide their licence, their name and their address. That's Queensland law. That is in direct contravention to what I understand the Greens were trying to achieve with that deal. But what is the point of trying to say that pharmacies have to sell a product that is, in the vast majority, being sold illegally? These are products that are not manufactured under any sort of licensed arrangements. They could be full of fentanyl. Who would know what's going into them? But selling vapes through a pharmacy is not going to solve the illegal vape trade. It won't even put a dent in it. Wherever I go, whether it's here in Parliament House or down the street in North Queensland, I can be guaranteed that most of the vapes I'll see have not been provided legally. They have certainly not been manufactured legally. And yet what the government is going to do is double down on failed legislation and a failed prescription model. What are the druggies going to do? What are the crime lords going to do? What are the bikie gangs going to do? They're going to continue their business as usual, because this legislation doesn't allow for more funding to support them. It certainly doesn't provide any more funding for the hospitals to treat this illegal activity. No, we're going to keep pretending that prohibition works and that the prescription model works, and it does not.</para>
<para>I have carefully shepherded my three children through to adulthood not to be smokers. As an ex-smoker myself, it was something that was important to me. I didn't want them to go through the quitting process that I had gone through. But—guess what?—as adults they've all started vaping because that's what everybody's doing. It's okay to do it. You can do it at a restaurant. You can do it everywhere. So I am appealing to the government: stop this ridiculous process of thinking that you can double down on a failed policy, because prescription does not work. If you ask anybody you see later tonight or tomorrow whether or not they got their vape with a script, don't be surprised at the answer. We know the data for most of them—the vast majority. Fewer than 10 per cent of the vapes that we see people using are used with a prescription. The rest go to drug lords, who take money not just from our kids but from our young adults and all of those people who say things to me like, 'Yeah, we had a vape the other day. I couldn't feel my feet afterwards.'</para>
<para>This is what we are knowingly allowing to happen. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept, and we have no idea what's in the 92 or 93 per cent of illegal vapes on the street that we are walking past. For those people who'd like to think that big tobacco is manufacturing them, that is in your wildest fantasy, because they are coming out of factories that are not legal and are not managed, and we have no idea what's going into those things.</para>
<para>I don't want to labour the point, but what is going on is outrageous. Thanks to Labor and the Greens getting together, we're going to pass legislation which will not address the illegal activities, will not protect our children, and will see illegal vape shops continue to flourish right around the country. We're funding drug lords and bikie gangs and making our kids sick because we are too lazy to do the real work, which is funding police and cracking down on crime. That's all I have to add to this.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've listened to both sides of the debate tonight and I've got to say that both the Labor Party and the LNP have got some good points. Specifically, I don't necessarily want to talk about the health risks posed by vapes but about the environmental risks. Like Senator McDonald, I do want to admit that I'm an ex-smoker. I was one of those smokers who never thought they were a smoker. I went weeks, or months sometimes, without having a cigarette, and then I'd go on holiday and smoke a packet and think, 'What am I doing?' This went on for years.</para>
<para>Well before single-use vapes were on the market, I did buy a reusable vape from a tobacconist and I did use vapes to get off cigarettes. For me, that worked very well, and I want to disclose that tonight. I think it's important for me to do that. But I also can attest to just how addictive single-use vapes are. I haven't used a vape for a while now, but I do know people in my family who still do, including young people. I also know they're readily available. Even though the government's been cracking down and putting in their best endeavours to stop them at the border, they are still readily available to most young Australians right now.</para>
<para>My party has openly talked about the fact that we don't support prohibition. We don't think prohibition works. We think government regulation and harm minimisation is the best way forward. Personally, I would like to have seen vapes regulated in the same way that cigarettes were regulated. However, that's not going to be the case, so I have just a few comments about the pharmacy model.</para>
<para>To get off vapes, I had to go to pharmacies, and I'll admit tonight that I also bought Nicorettes, nicotine gum and nicotine spray, and that worked. Within a month or six weeks, I no longer felt like I needed to vape any longer. Those products worked for me and they were available at a pharmacy. Pharmacists have jumped up and down in the last couple of days about the fact that they may have to sell reusable vapes and cartridges with nicotine dispensing products, but they do sell nicotine products in pharmacies already. They were originally schedule 3, where they were available only by asking for a pharmacist, and now they're schedule 2. You can walk into any pharmacy in Australia—I obviously am over age, so no-one ever asked me for my ID, but I'm guessing anyone can go and buy nicotine lollies or patches at a pharmacy. I'd be happy to be proven correct, but those nicotine products are available for anyone who wants them in a pharmacy. So it's not a big stretch, as someone who has walked this path themselves, for me to imagine that, by going into a pharmacy, I can buy another form of nicotine dispensing in the form of a reusable vape with the cartridges dispensed by a pharmacist to help me get off cigarettes.</para>
<para>I think I also know, from personal experience, that the flavours that are going to be offered under this model will not appeal to a lot of people. I don't think they're going to be appealing to young people, and even people trying to get off cigarettes are probably going to struggle with them, so I hope they work. Vaping did work for me, long before the single-use vapes came on the market. I couldn't go back to smoking after I tried vaping. Smoking became so unpleasant. It actually worked for me.</para>
<para>I know the evidence is mixed, but I'm just telling my personal story here tonight. I do think the pharmacy model is worth trying. Senator Steele-John has done an amazing job negotiating with the government to get some changes in a number of areas, including a review of this legislation in the years to come. I hope for those people who want to get off cigarettes that they can go into a pharmacy, ask the pharmacist for a reusable vape and buy the cartridges. I've seen the cartridges in other forms, such as medicinal cannabis. I know what's available out there. Presumably, you use a vape pen or something similar that you charge in your wall at home. Therefore, you don't have lithium batteries going into the environment like we have with single-use vapes. It is better for the environment, and hopefully, it will actually generate a positive health outcome for smokers who want to get off nicotine and cigarettes.</para>
<para>In terms of the environment, single-use vapes are a real problem. It's not just because they're not being recycled but also because they're dangerous. When they're thrown in the litter stream and compacted under pressure with heat, they can cause fires—and they are causing fires. It's been a serious issue now for a long time. I've talked to some recyclers about how they're dealing with this issue. I know there are some places where they're just literally being crushed in special machines where they can't start fires. I have no idea what they're being used for, in terms of the aggregates that they're forming from crushing these vapes. At the moment, they can be recycled, but they're not being recycled.</para>
<para>At the end of the day, we don't want them for health reasons, and there's a better alternative than having a product on the market that most people are just going to throw away. It's going to make its way to landfill or it's going to start a fire in a garbage truck. I'm sure that Senator Sheldon, through his work with truck drivers, knows just how dangerous it is at the moment for many workers in the waste disposal industry. It's a very serious risk that they're dealing with right now. I'll be quite glad to see the end of single-use vapes from an environmental point of view.</para>
<para>I would just say to everyone that this is a good compromise that has been reached here tonight. Both sides have got some valid points. There is going to be a lot of work to do to crack down on the black market. Now the genie is out of the bottle and single-use vapes are popular, it's going to be a lot of hard work to stop them coming in at the border. Organised crime have managed to sell other illicit drugs now for decades and make a lot of money out of them. They're making a lot of money out of vapes already, and there's a big road ahead of us here to actually eliminate them from society and from our waste stream. I think we should give this a go. I'm proud of the amendments that the Greens have been able to negotiate with the government on this, and we will be supporting this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Big tobacco is moulding the minds of our children, one puff at a time. Disposable vapes are brightly coloured, they are bubblegum flavoured and they are deliberately sold within walking distance of our schools. Steve Robson, President of the Australian Medical Association, has called vaping 'one of the greatest public health challenges'. The Australian Parents Council has warned:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our children are being used as guinea pigs—guinea pigs to test what vaping might do to them in the future.</para></quote>
<para>The Albanese government is backing these organisations in taking strong action to stamp out vaping through stronger legislation, enforcement, education and support. There is strong and consistent evidence that young Australians who vape are around three times more likely to take up tobacco smoking compared to young Australians who have never vaped. The latest national data, from 2022-23, showed one in six high school students recently vaped—a fourfold increase since the previous survey in 2017.</para>
<para>When I was the deputy chair of a Senate inquiry into tobacco harm reduction back in 2020, I heard about the companies that profit from the death and disease of their customers. The perverse business model of tobacco companies means that politicians must always be alert to their efforts to ease restrictions on tobacco and nicotine. This is why Australia is a signatory to the World Health Organization Framework Convention on Tobacco Control. The convention requires public figures to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… be alert to any efforts by the tobacco industry to undermine or subvert tobacco control efforts …</para></quote>
<para>We hoped that there would be bipartisan support for our efforts to crack down on vaping, and I welcome the constructive engagement with the crossbench and the Greens. But recent reporting in the <inline font-style="italic">Guardian</inline> and the <inline font-style="italic">Age</inline> have outed the companies that are trying to influence Australia's vaping policy, often through third-party fronts. For example, one of the groups that are supporting vaping is the Australian Lottery and Newsagents Association, whose corporate members include British American Tobacco, Imperial Tobacco and Philip Morris. The minister, Mark Butler, has said that the only groups who want to regulate and sell vaping products are those who profit once kids get hooked on nicotine: big tobacco and tobacco retailers. That list also includes the National Party of Australia, who, themselves, are desperately hooked on donations from big tobacco. Philip Morris has donated tens of thousands of dollars to the National Party since 2019. British American Tobacco has also made significant donations to the National Party in the last year. In exchange, they got a membership to the National Policy Forum, which allowed them to:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… engage proactively on solutions to combat the rapidly growing unregulated nicotine market.</para></quote>
<para>Clearly, tobacco thinks it's a great return on investment to be filling the party coffers of the Nationals.</para>
<para>The Public Health Association of Australia, the peak body for public health, have said the Nationals' 'views on vaping are worse than irrelevant' and their proposal is:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… likely to be influenced by the industry which seeks to continue to profit from ill health and nicotine addiction …</para></quote>
<para>This week, the Australian Medical Association has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Littleproud and the Nationals need to put the health of our children first and say 'no' to toxic vapes; 'no' to harming the health of Australian children; and 'no' to the shameful tactics of Big Tobacco.</para></quote>
<para>There's an opportunity for the Nationals tonight, including all those opposite, to turn their backs on big tobacco and their donors and put their arms around their kids and look after their health.</para>
<para>In contrast, the government's approach to vapes aligns with leading public health organisations in Australia, including the Royal Australian College of General Practitioners, the Cancer Council, the National Health and Medical Research Council and all state and territory health departments.</para>
<para>I note that therapeutic vapes will be available in pharmacies for those who need to quit smoking. There is no doubt that quitting smoking is difficult. It can take years and many attempts. Therapeutic vapes can play a role in supporting people to manage nicotine addiction, but the government's approach will prevent unregulated access among young people. We put in place regulations to choke off the supply of vapes from overseas, and since 1 January the Australian Border Force has seized almost two million disposable vapes. The changes in the regulations that have been proposed in this law will make that process even clearer and more possible.</para>
<para>In April this year, the minister brought all the state and territory health ministers together for a coordinated approach to protect young Australians. The legislation that is now before the Senate will ban the under-the-counter sale and supply of vapes. It has only ever been Labor governments that have taken the strong, principled action needed to implement tobacco control, and it's only our government that will deliver the next step in vaping.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to start by acknowledging what Senator Sheldon has said. He claimed that big tobacco is killing our children one puff at a time by selling brightly coloured, highly flavoured disposable vapes within walking distance of our schools. While he is right that those sorts of vapes are being sold within walking distance of our schools and, unfortunately, many of our children are accessing those vapes, they are not the vapes manufactured and marketed by big tobacco. They are the vapes manufactured and marketed by organised crime—organised crime and the black market—and that will not be fixed by the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024.</para>
<para>This is a bit of a confessional tonight, with all of the ex-smokers standing up. Mea culpa—I'm another one. I was a long-term smoker, but I was lucky because I gave up before vapes were on the market. I was able to kick my habit long before these lovely, fancy and pretty-smelling products were made available. I got away with it. But, like others, I now have children. I educated my children. I was able to say: 'Don't smoke; it makes you smell. It turns your teeth yellow and makes your hair lacklustre, and let's not talk about the effect on my skin. Really, I'm only 21.' Like others, I thought my children got it. In fact, my children get it. There are still enough smokers in my family. My children are like, 'Yeah, smoking stinks!' Unfortunately, vaping doesn't. Vaping doesn't stink, and, unfortunately when vaping first came out, people were saying that it was a healthier alternative to smoking. I never believed it, because all you are doing is swapping one addiction for another, as we heard from Senator Whish-Wilson. He swapped one addiction for another, and then he had to swap it for other addictions like chewing gum and sprays until he was finally able to kick it. I congratulate him, because nicotine is a very strong addiction; let me be clear about that.</para>
<para>Originally, vapes were the healthier alternative, and, somehow, our kids fell for that. They also fell for the claim that the fancy-smelling vapes didn't actually contain nicotine. Thanks to the hard work of CHOICE magazine, we found out that most of them actually do contain nicotine, even if they're marketed as non-nicotine vapes. Worse still, some of the other ingredients in them are even more addictive and carcinogenic than nicotine. The worst thing is that the current model does not have any form of quality control for those single-use disposable vapes. I just want to say that one thing we all agree on—everyone who has spoken—is that we do not want our children to be addicted to vapes. We can all agree on that.</para>
<para>The current model under which nicotine vapes are prescription only unfortunately isn't working. It was our model; we introduced it. But it's not working. But, unlike Labor, we're not doubling down. We are not going to keep kicking a dead horse. We have admitted that the current model does not work, and we have today announced a highly regulated model. But now, interestingly, as to Labor's new model—which they've just thought of in the last 24 or 48 hours with the Greens—do we really know? It's complicated, and maybe Labor just hope that it's a little too complicated for people to be able to follow. The mess that Labor are creating will drive more people onto the black market and will increase the risk to our children.</para>
<para>The legislation before us, with its half-baked, 11th-hour changes negotiated with the Greens—who support legalising all manner of illicit substances irrespective of health implications—won't overcome the many health, social and legal problems associated with the black market. We know that, despite the current, rather ineffective prohibition model, vaping products are still sold freely, as described by Senator Sheldon. We know children have no difficulty accessing vaping products and are quite openly using them. Walk down to any shopping centre, and you'll see teenagers happily puffing away. Link that with the incredibly fast-growing illegal tobacco market and its underworld connections, and you see how wet lettuce leaf this legislation is.</para>
<para>The government has gotten itself into this situation. They're trying to shut the stable door long after the horse has bolted, but this legislation will not get that horse back into the yards anytime soon. The chaos of the last 24 hours has seen Labor go from being absolutely, 100 per cent committed to a prescription-only model to having an access-at-all-pharmacies model.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Pratt</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It would have helped if you'd voted for it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! You'll have your chance, Senator Pratt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Ours were touted as being the strictest vape rules in the world, whereby a person would only be able to access vapes with a prescription from their doctor. Mind you, good luck seeing a doctor! Now anyone over the age of 18 can access a vape just by walking into their pharmacy. If you're under 18, you can get a vape with a prescription. This reminds me of the seventies, when my mother used to send me toddling off to the corner shop with a note saying I was allowed to buy her cigarettes. That's what it reminds me of. Someone under the age of 18 with a prescription can go and get a vape? I thought we were trying to stop our children getting vapes. And yet Labor are proposing to allow our children to get vapes.</para>
<para>I've got grave concerns about that aspect of this bill. Given the speed of the change in the position of the government, I'm not sure even they know exactly what they've signed up for. But what we do know is that the people they are requiring to be the policemen, the tobacconists and the garbologists for this legislation didn't know what it was about. They didn't know it was coming. The Pharmacy Guild said the first they heard of it was when they read the Greens press release. The health minister did not even have the decency to give them a heads-up—not even a half-hour warning to say: 'Hey-ho, this is coming your way! Be ready to hang up your flashing neon signs saying, "Vapes available at a pharmacy near you!"' The health minister defends this by saying pharmacies already sell vapes. That may be so, but it's under a very, very different model that was negotiated with pharmacists. The health minister says pharmacies can choose whether or not they want to supply vapes. Really? So this is an opt-in for pharmacists? But what if none of them decide to opt in? How will that work for this new model? We know what will happen because we're seeing it now.</para>
<para>We know that, despite the retail sale of nicotine e-cigarettes having only been legal through prescription from pharmacies, people are walking down the street and acquiring them in ever increasing numbers. The black market is thriving. Under the Labor government's proposal, I don't believe we'll be any better off. Organised crime will continue to profit from the illegal black market, and we will be no better off. We know the current prescription-only model has done nothing to limit the use of vaping, especially among young people. In fact we're seeing numbers increase. Evidence to the Senate inquiry from a criminologist suggested that nine out of 10 vapers already reject the prescription-only model and buy their products on the black market. With now 1.5 million Australians vaping and accessing vapes illegally, the bans have created the second-largest illegal drug market in the country. Instead of achieving the health minister's supposed goal of stamping out recreational vaping, the risk is it will do the opposite.</para>
<para>Then you have the problem of these illegal vapes with unknown ingredients being illegally imported into the country. In the Senate inquiry, my colleague Senator Cadell asked the Police Federation of Australia whether they could force the elimination of the illegal vaping black market through prohibition. They said they clearly could not, and this bill doesn't do enough to fix that. This bill will not curtail the estimated $100 billion black market that imports an estimated 100 million illegal vapes each year. This bill will not stop money being funnelled into the hands of organised crime syndicates. I fear this bill does nothing to prevent children accessing illegal vapes, and, because they are illegal, I fear what our children are inhaling through these illegal products.</para>
<para>This bill does not adequately fund enforcement measures. It also does not adequately address enforcement at the border or the point of sale. Rather, it puts the burden on pharmacists to be the point of sale enforcement and still leaves the borders woefully unprotected. Our policy to regulate vapes equivalent to cigarettes and limit point of sale includes significant funding for enforcement. It includes funding to stand up an illegal tobacco and vaping taskforce that would crack down on organised crime at the border and crack down on the import of illegal vapes at the border. So this legislation is at best half baked. We know we have problems with the vape industry. We have a plan to address that through regulation, through quality control, through education and, importantly, through enforcement. And that's what we will do if we have the opportunity from government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For more than 50 years, well-qualified public health professionals have been trying to tell Australian governments how to respond to serious public health issues, including smoking and vaping, gun laws, seatbelts, batteries in toys—a whole range of really important public health issues. And, time and time again, parliaments often prove themselves too slow to prevent significant harm to the Australian community. But I say that this government has listened and acted. Be it on the heads of those opposite, who let this pandemic of vaping absolutely explode in our community under their watch.</para>
<para>I say that as someone who has been an active vaper and has seen and felt its impact. I have, in confidence, conversations with a great many people about how it has impacted their lives. I come from a family of smokers, and for some, for some time, vaping seemed like it could be a pathway out of smoking. For some, it has been. For others, it elevated their nicotine addiction and therefore upped their need for nicotine in a way that meant they ended up smoking more.</para>
<para>We know that big tobacco has links with vaping in Australia and elsewhere, recruiting a new generation to a nicotine addiction, but frankly I care not about those facts. We are in an entirely new environment, and there are a whole range of new industries and new economies connected to the internet and online purchasing that have seen these products penetrate deeply into our community.</para>
<para>The 14-year-old daughter of a very good friend of mine told me of students in her own class smoking through their jumpers—hiding the vape under their jumper and sucking it through the fabric and doing that right there in the classroom, not just one student at a time but a number. I said, 'What does the teacher do?' The answer seemed to be, 'I guess the teacher has noticed, but they have not been in a position to do anything.' And, to be honest, it's little wonder that they haven't really been able to act. If you were to think frankly about the level of addiction that they've reached with a habit like vaping or smoking, that would in effect be the equivalent of coming into the Senate and seeking to have a senator having a vape under their coat because they've reached that level of addiction.</para>
<para>Honestly, it breaks my heart to think of the fact that the young people of Australia have been conned into this level of addiction with vanilla, banana, mint and strawberry flavoured nicotine products. I used one myself that was frankly shaped like a milkshake, coloured in yellow and banana flavoured. People talk about things that look like highlighter pens. They look like toys. It was absolutely devastating to hear, during the Senate inquiry of the community affairs committee into this legislation, the story of a toddler who lost their life because they ingested e-vaping liquid in the unregulated environment that the previous government led us to.</para>
<para>You let in this idea that vaping was somehow going to be less harmful to the Australian community than smoking. Well, I think it's like comparing apples and oranges, except that you're comparing deadly apples and oranges. A high level of nicotine addiction is going to impact your mental health and your cardiovascular system. It may or may not impact your lungs in the same way, in terms of cancer risks. But, if you look at the admissions to hospitals of young people who have had their lungs collapse from vaping, it is not justifiable to make the kinds of comparisons that say vaping is a safer alternative than tobacco—because there's no way that a young person would get away with smoking tobacco in their classroom.</para>
<para>It is very difficult to believe that smoking, at that age, could lead to such a high level of nicotine addiction as some young vapers have today. It is why I very much support providing support to young people for their nicotine addiction, under medical supervision with an e-script. I truly wish we did not have to do that. I truly wish there were an alternative. But, as those opposite say, there is the scourge of the black market in our country. Well, we know that there is work to do to get rid of the black market in vapes. We know that. But parents are being deprived of being able to have a real conversation with their young people about a serious addiction because they have no way of dealing with that addiction in their household other than to condone, to fight or to argue, or for it to take place surreptitiously. It's really important that a parent is able to say: 'Hey, let's have a discussion about your vaping and mine'—the conversation may well go—'or my smoking. Let's go and see the GP about how we cut down on nicotine use and give it up.'</para>
<para>I even heard a story from a teacher who said: 'I don't have to buy vapes anymore. I confiscate them off my students.' I heard someone else say to me: 'You can discreetly vape on an aeroplane even though it's banned. People do it all the time.' But I say: we see you, big tobacco. We see those who hide behind the veneer of this being a safer product that helps people give up smoking. We see through your strawberry milkshake with a cherry on top—flavoured vapes with fun colours to exactly match the youth market that they're aimed at. The tragedy is happening all around us, and the strategy of these marketeers is working.</para>
<para>I started my speech talking about what public health advocates have said for a long time—that where we have had strong policies on tobacco or nicotine control they have worked. But we have fallen behind in the past decade with regard to e-cigarette control. With the very diversified economic networks of today, we will, of course, have more work to do with regard to the black market. Yes, indeed, I know of several places in Perth where you can walk in and buy a carton of cigarettes illegally, and I must follow-up on that and use the hotline to dob them in.</para>
<para>The thing is that when those opposite say, 'You've got to spend more on law enforcement'—these are not either/ors. Public health advocates who are asking for these reforms know this too. Public health organisations like the Public Health Association of Australia have membership organisations that include harm minimisation organisations, where they have to deal with the reality of drug use in a diversity of circumstances every day. They have to support the health of addicts in their policies every day, yet they know the difference that policies and law reform like that that we have before us in the chamber tonight can make.</para>
<para>In that regard, while I appreciate the fact that, yes, getting in to see a GP is difficult, equally I am concerned that the Greens have watered down this legislation and that while those opposite say tonight that they're going to waive it through, at the same time most of their speeches seem to oppose it. It's a very confusing repertoire from those opposite, bar the fact that, while they say they're now going to waive it through, they didn't negotiate. Frankly, they didn't come to the party to get a strong set of laws through to tackle vaping in our nation in accordance with the strongest health advice. It's little wonder to me that they take donations from big tobacco.</para>
<para>I'll tell a funny little anecdote in the last few moments of my speech; I wasn't going to share it. In one of those moments in my life where vaping and smoking had led to an elevated nicotine addiction, I had begged for a cigarette off someone in the building and I was looking for a light. I saw a cloud of smoke billowing up from chairs just outside the Senate, and there were two young spivs in their skinny black suits. I went to ask them for a light, and they said: 'Sorry, we don't have one. We're vapers. We're vaping.' They said: 'Where are you from? Who do you work for?' I said, 'I'm Senator Pratt, from Western Australia.' They said, 'Oh, we're very, very sorry we don't have a light for you, Senator.' I asked these two young men in their black suits, 'Okay, so where are you from?' They said, 'We're from Philip Morris.' When we talk about the intersection of big tobacco with the vaping industry, I've seen firsthand how real it is inside this building and I have seen firsthand how those opposite are still taking their money. You may vote for this legislation, you may have mostly debated and made parliamentary contributions against it, but may the scourge of the health impact of vaping for generations to come be on your heads because of your inaction. We are working very hard to clean that up—and we have a lot of work to do—with the work already done and, indeed, with these very important reforms before us. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I didn't have many views on vaping many years ago; I had never vaped myself, and it wasn't something I was that interested in. But I had my views changed considerably a few years ago when the Morrison government, under health minister Greg Hunt, sought to ban the importation of vapes with just three weeks notice. I had many constituents contact my office, concerned by this change, and I met many people that were vapers and spoke to many of them. I distinctly remember meeting a young mother of four children who had, for many years, tried to kick the habit of smoking. It was a terrible, debilitating addiction for her. It wasn't until she tried vaping that she was able to successfully kick the habit, and that completely changed her life. Before that time, she had difficulty keeping up with her children, playing with her children; she would be out of breath. Generally you would go outside to smoke, away from the children. It separates you from your children. It wasn't a good existence for her. Vaping changed her life. That's just one particular story; I heard many more. There are thousands of people across the country, and I've met hundreds of them over the years, who, on this issue, have had their lives changed for good by using vapes.</para>
<para>This idea that I continue to hear that somehow vaping is worse or as bad as smoking is palpably untrue. You just have to speak to people who do it. It's untrue in their own lives, it's untrue in their lived experience and it's untrue in scientific literature. I don't want to spend a lot of time tonight going through Cochrane reviews and reviews of journals, many of which I've read over the years, but the scientific conclusion is very clear: the ingestion of carcinogenic tobacco as a nicotine delivery system is much, much worse than relying on a vaporised gas to deliver nicotine to the human body.</para>
<para>I don't recommend anybody take up vaping. It's probably best to stay away from drugs of all forms, but I myself am probably similarly addicted to caffeine. I need a few cups of coffee every day. Maybe it does help me; maybe it does some long-term health damage to me. I don't really know. The science on these things seems to change every day of the week, but it's my choice. As an adult, as a consenting adult, we should generally allow people to make choices that don't otherwise cause debilitating changes to their lives. We allow people to legally buy cigarettes. We allow people to consume vast quantities of alcohol, which has terrible social impacts from time to time, but we live in a free society which generally allows adults to make those free choices without the government trying to tell us all what to do, and so I think that generally should be our preference. We should generally prefer, if possible, to let adults make their own choices.</para>
<para>Thankfully, that ban a few years ago did not come into effect, but there's also a misconception here that somehow vaping is legal or has been legal until this government acted. It has actually been illegal to sell vapes for many years at the retail level, largely under state legislation, in Australia. That would be probably surprising and shocking to many Australians. When you walk down any street, you'll trip across multiple shops that are selling vapes—sometimes quite openly. For the people I speak to, it's certainly no difficulty for them to acquire vapes from a variety of stores across the country, including since the government has announced crackdowns on this in the last few months.</para>
<para>Clearly, we're not winning this so-called war on vapes. It's not something I think can be won. The government is not in anyway serious about the resources it has put towards this effort. Obviously, we have limited police and law enforcement resources, and they should be devoted to the most serious of crimes. We have a runaway problem in my home state of car theft, of basic burglary and of robbery. Many people feel unsafe in their own homes in Queensland at the moment. I do not want scarce police resources being devoted to running down and policing what adults want to do in terms of vaping or smoking or drinking or eating or anything else that adults like to do with each other from time to time. I don't think there is a role for governments in our bedrooms, in our houses. It's really up to each and every one of us to make those decisions as we see fit, even if sometimes they're not the best decisions for our long-term health.</para>
<para>There is a real issue with the availability of illegal, dangerous, addictive vaping products around our children and in our schools. It's a serious issue, but it must be said that issue has grown in an environment where vaping is illegal. The availability of these products to our children has coincided in a period where the law says that it is illegal to sell vapes anywhere in the country. It's illegal to sell vapes at retail outlets, it's illegal to sell vapes in the street, it's illegal to sell vapes at or around a school—obviously. But that still happened. In effect, what the government has brought to this parliament, despite everything being illegal—they're spinning more laws here because they say they've come up with a real solution to this. The government has had a brainwave: all we need to do is make criminal activity illegal! Why didn't we think of this before? All we have to do is make crime illegal, and then it will all go away! That's the approach of this government—that this is somehow revolutionary. They've got something that's already illegal, and now they're coming in and making federal laws on top of the state laws to make it further illegal, and somehow that will stop people being criminals. I mean, it is so absurd, that this government thinks that if this parliament merely signs a piece of paper, if some media releases are put out, this problem will suddenly vanish, will disappear. Why hadn't anyone thought of this before?</para>
<para>It's clearly not going to have that effect; in fact, it hasn't had that effect, even in the period since the government announced these changes. They announced these changes months ago, and there's been no appreciable change to the availability of vaping products in our community, their availability to our children. It's time to recognise a much more sensible approach, an approach that balances the rights and freedoms of adults to make choices about their own health, about what they consume, and also protects our children by devoting scarce enforcement resources to that issue.</para>
<para>We have in front of us a real-world example of where the approach that the coalition has adopted today has worked; it really has worked, and we used to champion this. We've gone quiet about it for now, because it's inconvenient to the government to admit this. But over the past few decades Australia has achieved enormous success at reducing smoking rates for young Australians by having an environment where it is legal for adults to buy and sell smokes. They're freely and very readily available. Yet at the same time we have significantly reduced the number of young people who smoke. We've done both those things at the same time. And we've done that through no real rocket science but through a very strong education campaign to our children, through enforcing laws on illegal trade in terms of the availability of cigarettes, in reputable stores, supplied by reputable businesses that are law abiding. And these laws don't allow the emergence of a large black market in cigarettes—until recently, and I'll come back to that. That has allowed us to lead the world in reducing smoking rates for the overall adult population and, most importantly, reduce the smoking rates for children.</para>
<para>Now we've got an A/B test, if you like. So, that's the A, and we've got a B test where we've tried to crack down on vaping for everybody, adults and children alike. But we're doing neither. We've got kids vaping more and more—runaway increases in children vaping—and we've got adult vaping skyrocketing, too. On top of that we're funding a massive criminal gang network who are abusing the black market that we've allowed to grow through this short-sighted, impossible target we're trying to reach. That's perhaps the most destructive thing we've done with our approach, because there is no doubt that criminal gangs in this country are making a lot of money selling vapes to all Australians, including children. That is helping fund a variety of criminal activities, probably some of the ones I mentioned earlier that are unrelated to drug crimes per se. It's helping to fund the broader sale of harder and much more serious drugs. It's helping to fund the importation of illegal tobacco—so-called chop-chop, which is the colloquial term for it.</para>
<para>Again, you come into this place and you think: do these people live in the real world? We hear these speeches, and they seem so disconnected. I mean, I just have to go down to my kids' sports and talk to the dads and mums. Some of them smoke. I'd say to other senators here, go and ask those parents where they get their smokes from. Where do they buy them from? Maybe they won't tell you honestly if they know you're a senator, but I think generally people don't care. Almost everyone to a man where I live now doesn't pay 50 bucks a pack; they're not doing that. They go and pay $15 or $20 a pack at different stores. It's all under the table; it's not seen. We see that in the government revenue in tobacco excise, which is falling off a cliff. Smoking rates aren't falling off a cliff anymore; they've somewhat plateaued. But that revenue is falling off a cliff, because everybody's just going to buy the illegal tobacco, because we've allowed this black market to grow, and we think that continuing a failed strategy is somehow going to fix it. It's not. We should look to replicate the success we've clearly achieved with a balanced approach which allows adults to be free in a regulated market and to put all our resources into educating our children—into keeping vapes away from kids and cracking down on anybody who supplies them to young children. That should be a criminal offence—we actually all agree with that, I think—and we should make the penalties very severe.</para>
<para>I welcomed the announcement today that a Liberal-National government will see common sense on this issue and adopt the same types of regulation that almost every other developed country in the world has—countries like us: New Zealand, the UK and some states in the US. The US, of course, has a very different system, with lots of different approaches across their country. But, basically, we need to have a system that replicates the success we've had with smoking rates: one which regulates vape products; makes sure we get rid of these ridiculous flavours and attractions to young children; sells them in reputable shops, behind cabinets and without advertising; and keeping them away from our children. That just seems to be complete common sense here. It's hard to see why we would go any other way.</para>
<para>I suppose there's some hope that we'll end up getting to this environment now, with one side of politics adopting this as our policy. The other side of politics is now descending into a complete shambles on this issue—an absolute shambles. A dog's breakfast has now emerged, with the government saying they want to have a prescription model for vapes. Over the last few months, the last year, they were going to require everyone to go to the doctor to get a prescription, take that to the pharmacy and get their vapes that way. But just this week—overnight, really—they announced that no, they're going to walk away from that model and have some other model that we don't really know too much about yet, but vapes will just be available over the counter from pharmacists. We're now going to have the absurd situation in next few months, over most of winter and a little bit of early spring—from 1 July through to October, I believe—where people will need a prescription to buy vapes from a pharmacy. For those three months you'll need a prescription. You'll have to go to the doctor, get your prescription, go to the pharmacy and fill it. That will be the law of the land for those three months. Then, in October, when late spring and summer hit—over Christmas, when you end up on holidays—you won't need a prescription anymore. You'll be able to go to the pharmacist and get one over the counter. You'll have to have some kind of discussion with the pharmacist, apparently—I'm not sure if you'll have to do that every time or what the situation is; it's not clear. Hopefully, you'll have to show your ID, because schedule 3, which it's going into, is actually available to kids over 16, so they had better fix that issue! It's going to be completely different.</para>
<para>I think the citizens of this country deserve to have a government that can at least clearly explain what the law is so that people can abide by it. That's just the basic expectation you'd think the Australian people have. I think that most of the people who vape—that mum I spoke to years ago and most people who have to do this—want to abide by the law. They don't want to be criminals, but this government is making people into criminals because the government has presided over a complete and utter mess in this policy area—of their own making. It's a complete mess! We're going to vote on this today and they're going to change the law in a few months time through changes they haven't brought to this place—we haven't seen the scheduling changes. This is ridiculous! And how do they expect Australians to be able to comply with the law? Are they going to prosecute people in July, August and September if they don't have a prescription? They might say, 'Hang on, we just saw an announcement from the health minister which said you don't need a prescription.' It will be: 'No, that doesn't start until October; you didn't read the fifth paragraph of the media release. You're in trouble!'</para>
<para>I can't believe we're doing this. Why don't we just drop this right now? This bill is not really needed; it doesn't actually deal with nicotine products, which is what the government seems to be very concerned about. It deals with products that deliver nicotine but which aren't actually related to nicotine. As I said, there are already laws against that. Don't believe the spin we're getting; there are already laws against the availability of liquid nicotine. We're not going to fight this right now because it's completely pointless; this particular policy is not going to last. But why doesn't the government drop this and come up with the commonsense approach to this issue that Australians want? They want to comply with the law, they want to manage their own health issues, including some addictions to smoking, and to make their lives better through their own choices.</para>
<para>Obviously, the government has shown with their chopping and changing in approach over that the last few years that they should never be responsible for the direct health of individual Australians. We should give them the power to look after their own health and make the law clear for everybody to abide by.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to speak on the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. I can see the argument for the use of therapeutic vapes where they are being used to help somebody give up smoking. I can see the benefit of that. However I, like millions around the country, are concerned about the level of access children have to vaping products, and it's this primary point that I intend to address tonight.</para>
<para>My biggest concern about vaping is that children can access vaping products at school, at the local corner shop or worse, online—with products purchased from anonymous offenders and delivered right to them. This is not a situation that should be allowed to continue. The message is simple: children should not have access to vaping products and, by extension, children should not be living in a society where they can become addicted to vaping products.</para>
<para>The Albanese government's failure to control the illegal vaping market is its failure to protect our children. Constituents have told me their children speak about the pretty coloured vaping packaging they have seen littered around their schools. They were even more disturbed to learn their children are refusing to use the toilets at school because they are crammed full of students vaping. You can even buy body sprays that smell like your favourite vape so, when teachers ask if you are vaping, you can produce the body spray and use that as an excuse for the smell.</para>
<para>An entire industry has developed around poisoning our children, encouraging them to become addicted to vapes. Earlier this year, the education minister, Jason Clare, told members of the Matilda Centre at the University of Sydney that vaping is a menace. He said, 'Principals say vaping is the biggest behavioural issue in our schools at the moment.' Vaping should not be considered cool or fun or smoking for kids; it is a dangerous habit that will lead to lifelong health problems.</para>
<para>A Kidsafe Western Australia witness told committee members the proliferation of these unregulated devices into the market has raised some concerns, particularly for young children, around nicotine poisoning, because small amounts of high levels of nicotine can have major effects on a child. Advice from the Royal Childrens' Hospital Melbourne confirms that even small volumes of liquid nicotine solutions, such as used in vapes, can cause life-threatening toxicity in children. Impacts from nicotine on children can include nausea and vomiting, changes in their heart rate—either too fast or too slow—wheezing and shortness of breath, seizures, respiratory failure, and they can even slip into a coma.</para>
<para>The most critical issue we must consider in scrutinising this legislation is that children are still able to access bubblegum, berry and mango-flavoured vapes in fun, coloured packaging. The issue of vaping must be viewed through the lens of protecting our children from these harms. In its national drug strategy household survey in 2022-23, the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare found that, despite the retail sale of nicotine cigarettes to children never being legal in Australia, the rate of young people aged 14 to 17 who have ever used vapes or e-cigarettes has increased from 9.6 per cent in 2019 to 28 per cent in 2022-23. That's almost three times the rate in less than four years. Of those young people who said they had ever used a vape, more than half, or 55 per cent, said the last one they used contained nicotine. More concerning is that those aged 14 to 17 years were the most likely from the age groups surveyed by the AIHW to report they didn't know whether the last vape they used contained nicotine, making it likely the number 14-to-17-year-olds nicotine vapers is much higher than the 55 per cent stated.</para>
<para>The impact analysis of the proposed reforms to the regulation of vapes found the number of adult vapers who have a nicotine prescription for a therapeutic vape could be as low as three per cent. So in addition to the volume of young people who know they are using nicotine vapes, it is obvious that almost all adult vapers are using unregulated products bought from black-market operators too. It is clear the prescription-only model has failed to address the unfettered growth of underage vaping in communities around Australia. Even the Therapeutic Goods Administration acknowledges the prescription-only model has not achieved its aims. Indeed, at the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee's public hearing for this bill, criminologist Dr James Martin outlined just how dire the situation had become. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The consequences of this ban have been disastrous, with nine out of 10 vapers having already rejected the prescription model and instead sourcing their products from the black market.</para></quote>
<para>The ban has allowed a situation to develop where now around 1.5 million Australians are vaping illegally, a situation that amounts to the second-largest illegal drug market in the country behind cannabis.</para>
<para>Instead of stamping out recreational vaping, as health minister Mark Butler said the ban would do, this action has allowed a black market to thrive. In Mr Butler's own words, this black market 'is a lucrative source of revenue for criminal gangs who use it to bankroll drug trafficking, sex trafficking and all of their other criminal activities'. This black market is estimated to be worth $1 billion, fuelled by the sale of millions of imported and stockpiled disposable devices. Dr Martin also said that increasing the penalties for ignoring the ban or policing it further won't actually stop criminals from entering this vaping black market. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">They simply allow them to charge more for their services and increase the profits available to organised crime.</para></quote>
<para>Further, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… markets adapt, and supply goes underground, where it is even more difficult to police.</para></quote>
<para>Experience tells us that black markets are unregulated, and in this case Dr Martin said that 'unregulated' means that the vapes that are being sold on the black market are 'more potent, more addictive and more dangerous than their legal alternatives'. That means the vapes that are finding their way into the hands of our children fall into the highly addictive and dangerous category.</para>
<para>This bill will not stop children having access to vaping products and will likely allow the underground market to continue. Western Australia has banned the sale of all vapes—both nicotine and non-nicotine vapes—but the vapes can still be brought into the state. In February, the <inline font-style="italic">West Australian</inline> published an article stating that, despite the ban, vape stores are still operating within metres of schools. Even more concerning was the revelation that, when the journalist asked for a berry flavoured vape containing nicotine, they could buy it in eight stores. This is happening out in the open despite laws prohibiting such sales.</para>
<para>The ban is not working, and one of the major reasons for that is the lack of resourcing. Our state police and Border Force officers are already stretched, but now they have to conduct enforcement action against illegal pop-up vaping stores and online vape ordering and delivery services. On top of the difficulty our police are having in enforcing the vaping ban, resourcing around Australia's borders and at the point of sale is also insufficient.</para>
<para>In a move that signals that they also know the retail sales ban has failed, Labor and the Greens made a dirty deal to get this bill through, allowing vapes to be sold at pharmacies without a prescription in the near future. So, once Minister Butler has deemed that enough time has passed, you can just pop down to your local chemist, have a chat with the pharmacist and pick up a flavoured bait when you get your sleeping tablets or Sudafed. That's a long way away from a complete ban and even further away from a generation of children who cannot access vapes.</para>
<para>Despite this deal, these vaping reforms do not explain how the legislation we're debating today will stop children accessing vaping products, how it will avoid continuing to fuel the black-market further or how the government will ensure enforcement measures will be adequately funded. We don't even know how the government plans to measure this policy, so how will we know whether it's a failure or a success?</para>
<para>To add to this list of concerns, the government has not established or funded the illicit tobacco and e-cigarette commissioner that was promised when it supported the coalition's earlier amendments. The commissioner was supposed to operate from within Australian Border Force to support strategies to address illicit tobacco and vapes and enforce existing regulations. Labor had not even considered that a commissioner was needed before the coalition's amendment, which highlights its lack of action on enforcement. It's time this role was set up, because it is clear a commissioner is needed to adequately address the burgeoning tobacco black market.</para>
<para>My coalition colleagues on the Community Affairs Legislation Committee raised concerns about the way the inquiry into this bill was managed. More than 60 of the 200 submissions received were published less than two days before the public hearings, making it difficult to understand all the different views presented before witnesses gave evidence. This process is yet another example of the Labor government's contempt for the committee process, its rejection of carefully considered policymaking and its poor attitude towards those stakeholders who are genuinely uneasy about the reforms presented in this bill. More than a third of the submissions received concerned the fire bombings and homicides that have escalated since this black-market trade in nicotine products exploded. Small-business owners who have been running their enterprises lawfully have been the targets of violent attacks, many of which were perpetrated in Melbourne suburbs, but none of these submitters were invited to give evidence in person.</para>
<para>Additionally, a number of international experts made submissions to the inquiry pointing out the differences in Australia's approach to restricting access to nicotine vaping products to prescription only when compared to other countries. None of these international experts were invited to provide evidence that the committee hearings either. The submission from Action for Smokefree 2020 Aotearoa New Zealand pointed out:</para>
<quote><para class="block">New Zealand has seen very little evidence of an organised illicit vape market … due to … competition from the legal marketplace.</para></quote>
<para>New Zealand's regulated model provides more safety for consumers and supports people using vaping to quit smoking. We could have learned much from one of our closest neighbours, but they were not invited to expand on their evidence.</para>
<para>Professor Ann McNeill from King's College in London said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The medical prescription requirement appears cumbersome and unlikely to be a workable option for people who smoke.</para></quote>
<para>Professor Nancy Rigotti from Harvard Medical School said that Australia's regulatory models for vapes failed to make them readily available to smokers whose lives could be saved. This international expert, who sits on the Tobacco Policy Scientific Advisory Committee, urged Australia to switch to a risk-proportionate model, as other Western countries have done. The World Health Organization's former director of research policy and cooperation, Professor Tikki Pangestu, said in countries where vapes are regulated—such as New Zealand, the USA and the UK—they have had 'significant reductions in youth vaping numbers'. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Regretfully, such reductions have not been observed in Australia and perhaps there are lessons to be learnt from these other countries with regards to strategies and policies which are effective in reducing the incidence of youth vaping.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In markets where a total ban applies to vaping products, it is inevitable that an illicit 'black market' will become a major problem for the government.</para></quote>
<para>None of these experts, who have vast experience in this space between them, were invited to speak during the inquiry, yet what they had to say makes a lot of sense.</para>
<para>To this end, I am pleased the coalition confirmed its stance on this issue when Senator Ruston and Senator Paterson outlined our preference for a regulated model to address illegal vaping earlier today. This sensible approach will reform the mess that illegal nicotine vapes have created in Australia and will disrupt the vape trade to our children. We know that without additional enforcement action we cannot protect children from vapes, so we're putting more support behind a new Australian Federal Police task force which will be established to deal with the illegal vape and tobacco black market.</para>
<para>The key result from any vaping reform must be to halt kids vaping. We must do more to stop the myriad of ways children can access vapes. Easy access is leading to poor behaviour at school, vaping addiction and long-term health problems—some of which we are yet to fully understand. Illicit vaping is out of control in Australia and our children are at risk. Making vapes available via prescription or a chat with a pharmacist will not address the growing black market trade in illegal vapes because it is still easier to go to one of the many vape shops that have been set up in communities in every state and territory and select from the wide array of colourful, flavoured options on offer. A regulated model is the solution to this dire problem and that is what will keep our children safe.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to start by acknowledging the work of my colleague Senator Steele-John on behalf of the Greens in navigating a pathway through what is a wicked social problem. The Greens came to the issue of vaping with a set of solid principles behind the politics of it, based upon the experience of regulating other drugs. That experience is not just one the Greens have seen but anyone with their eyes open can see. That's why the Greens' position acknowledges the harm and the addiction possible through vaping and wants to do what we can to treat it as a public health concern and, in treating it as a public health concern, also acknowledge the lessons from the failed efforts to prohibit other drugs.</para>
<para class="italic">Taking that public health and public interest perspective together, we have worked with the government to deliver a set of reforms that we hope gets the balance right. Nobody can suggest that you can just magically put the genie back in the bottle without any disruption after well over a decade of inaction. And we hear from the coalition that this package is not perfect. They say that they have some other better solution to it. I think they came up with that solution at about 12:15 pm today, a bit after midday.</para>
<para>I think the coalition—after nearly a decade in government—finally came up with their solution a bit after midday today, and it's the Coles and Woolies approach to it. They want to have vapes available through Coles and Woolies. That's the coalition's solution to this quite vexed and difficult social problem. After a decade in government, they had nothing. They literally left this market totally unregulated. They let millions of Australians get addicted to an unregulated product and now they're solution is to give it to Coles and Woolies. That's actually what they're saying! It's not a serious response to a serious issue.</para>
<para>The package that has been negotiated is a serious response to a serious issue. What does that look like? First of all, that looks like ensuring that nobody will go to jail for personal possession of a vape, and for the Greens that was a non-negotiable element in the discussion. We must learn the lessons of previous efforts—and some current and ongoing efforts—to prohibit drugs and to punish people because they have an addiction or because they have a drug in their possession that one politician doesn't like. That would not work and will not work. The idea that we would criminalise people for the personal possession of vapes was a nonstarter for our party. Thankfully, the package of reforms that has now been negotiated means that that will not happen.</para>
<para>Nobody will go to jail. Nobody will be having an unfortunate interaction with police. Nobody can be stopped and searched simply because they've got vapes in their possession. That should offer a degree of comfort to young males out in Western Sydney, who know they're often targeted by police. Police use stop-and-search powers in relation to cannabis, for example, to stop, search and prevent them from just walking down the street. That will not happen with vapes as a result of the Greens amendments that have been negotiated. People will be protected. Whether the vapes that they have in their possession were legally or illegally purchased, people will not be able to be stopped and searched by police and prosecuted on that basis. That is an essential protection that we have negotiated through these changes.</para>
<para>The Greens have also looked at the initial government proposal for a prescription-only market—for individuals to have to go to a GP to get a script, take the script to the chemist and then get it through that process. Indeed, if you listen to some of the coalition's responses, you can see that a vast amount of evidence suggests that that was going to be deeply problematic. That was going to inevitably drive a large and unregulated black market, and it was going to exclude many particularly vulnerable people from having access to legal and well-regulated vapes. The Greens could see the difficulty in that.</para>
<para>The question is: what's a pathway that gets the balance right—not the Coles and Woolies pathway that the coalition is proposing but the pathway that gets the balance right? That is why the pharmacy model has been incorporated into this, after good faith negotiations—and, again, I give credit to my colleague Senator Steele-John for helping navigate this pathway. That will mean that people won't need to get a prescription. They won't have to pay—sometimes $50 or $100—to visit their GP in order to get a script so they can go to the chemist and get vapes through that pathway. That was going to be such a barrier, particularly to young adults, particularly to people with less income and particularly to people in rural and regional parts of the country, where it is so hard to get to see a doctor, even for a serious ailment. That wasn't going to work.</para>
<para>What's another pathway that isn't the coalition's Coles and Woolies approach but is a pathway that has people able to access vapes in a regulated, legal market, where they can gain some advice about the addictive qualities of it and, potentially, other options but still have access to a legal and regulated market, without all those barriers? That's where the pharmacy model came in. As with pseudoephedrine and a variety of other pharmacy-only medicines, it's a pathway we know will work. It's a pathway that we know is practical, and it's a pathway that is available wherever there's a pharmacy across the country. That is an extraordinary opportunity.</para>
<para>If there's one thing I've learned in politics, from watching the Pharmacy Guild over the last decade or more, it is that the Pharmacy Guild can normally tell where a profit will be, and if they can make a profit from a market they will. That's a basic truism, if you've followed the path of the Pharmacy Guild over the last couple of decades. If they can make a profit from a product, they will.</para>
<para>We heard from healthcare professionals, but we also listened to young people. We also listened to the experience of people who had been criminalised for things like the possession of cannabis, and we did not want to repeat that mistake. That would be an inexcusable act from this parliament. We haven't repeated it; we've found the pathway through that gets that balance right to do everything we can to ensure that kids do not get access to vapes.</para>
<para>Can you say that, as part of this package of reform, no child will ever get access to a vape? Of course, you can't. Might there be a continuing black market available for some of the flavoured vapes? There probably will be, to some extent, and we'll need to constantly review this scheme and work with regulators to refine the package over time. That's one of the reasons why the Greens negotiated a statutory review, not 20 years into the future but three years into the future so we have some experience. We should be actively looking at the international experience, too. We should be following what is happening in New Zealand, the UK and other jurisdictions, and learn from that other experience as well. This reform that we're backing in that will become law because of good faith negotiations between the government and the Greens is a reform that has the best chance that we can see to get that balance right, to do everything we can to stop kids having access to vapes, to do what we can to have a regulated, legal supply where people know what's in the product that they're consuming, to try and put a lid on and reverse the scale of addiction to vapes over the next few years, and to try and get that public health, public interest lens right so that we're listening to the health professionals and also learning from the experience of other efforts to prohibit drugs.</para>
<para>I again want to end by commending the work of my colleague Senator Steele-John. He worked with the Greens party room and he worked with our stakeholders around the country. What I hope is that the coalition gives up on their plan to hand it to Coles and Woolies. I hope they actually try and do long-term decision-making and policy-setting that doesn't end up with them to only get their final position at a quarter past midday on the day that the legislation's being voted on in the Senate. I hope that what we can do with other hard, public policy decisions like this is follow the evidence, follow the experience and try to get that balance right.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The most concerning matter in relation to this bill is, by far, the prolific nature of children vaping. That should be the primary concern of all of us, of government, ensuring that our vulnerable children are not subjected to the addiction to nicotine at such a young age. I'm not talking about teenage kids who are no less of a concern; I'm talking about primary school aged children who are 10 and 11 years old.</para>
<para>The biggest factor in allowing children to vape and access vaping products is the proliferation of the black market. We already have a prolific illegal market for these substances, and that's because these bans don't work. Senator Shoebridge talked about looking at the evidence. Globally, the evidence clearly shows that the bans do not work. That is clear on every metric: the scale of the black markets, the rates of vaping amongst children and the fact that the vast majority of adult vapers are using a vape acquired from the black market, not a prescription vape from their pharmacy. These are otherwise everyday, law-abiding Australians accessing vapes on the black market. Australia has been isolated in this approach. Quite simply, it is not an approach that we see anywhere else in the comparable world, and that's because it doesn't work.</para>
<para>It's a good thing that the government has changed some of their policy in recognition of the fact that their former policy was not going to work at all. Perhaps they should've taken care and more time in the formation of the bill initially and not rushed it, as seems to be their general practice. But their solution, that will now see community pharmacies turned into vape shops, isn't a great deal better, and I don't think it is something that anybody wants to see. I don't want to see it. The Pharmacy Guild doesn't want to see it. I don't think our local community pharmacies want to be selling and disposing of vapes. And I really don't think everyday Australians want to see that. But under this agreement between the government and the Greens, not only do pharmacies get to sell vapes but they also get to be the avenue—the disposal network—for vapes, too. How is that going to work? On the one hand, we go there for medical care, for treatment and for understanding around best practice, and on the other they will be a disposal place for vapes. For those wanting to quit smoking by moving on to vapes as a smoking-cessation tool, it is better to have those vapes available to them at the places they typically buy cigarettes, surely—not at the pharmacy. The commonsense solution would be to have them at the same place where they buy cigarettes so they can actually make that active choice: I won't buy that, I'll buy this.</para>
<para>The Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill looks to ban the importation, domestic manufacture and supply of non-therapeutic, disposable, single-use vapes while preserving patient access to therapeutic vapes for smoking cessation and management of nicotine dependence where clinically appropriate. The bill will mainly impact the sale and supply of non-nicotine vaping products. Vapes containing nicotine are already subject to restrictions under the Poisons Standard classification. However, the problem is that the vapes that are targeted at children are advertised as being nicotine-free, and they have nicotine in them. This is despite a ban, further highlighting that the ban does not work.</para>
<para>The bill makes two important changes which the coalition supports. Firstly, it doesn't allow the sale of predatory and dangerous single-use disposable vaping products which are targeted to children and contain nicotine. Secondly, it creates one single framework under the TGA for the regulation of vaping products, regardless of the nicotine content. We have been clear from the get-go that our priority is to protect Australian children from the harms of vaping, and in line with that priority we do not stand in the way of those measures. No-one wants to see Australian children vaping. No-one wants to see Australian children become addicted to vaping. Nobody wants to see Australian children addicted to nicotine. But kids are being targeted by a thriving and dangerous black market. Our primary focus in this area is preventing children from getting access to these products. We are focused on stamping out the organised-crime-driven black market that is supplying these illegal vapes to children.</para>
<para>Right now, it is illegal to buy a nicotine vape without a prescription. It has always been illegal to sell a vape to any child under 18, yet kids are still getting ready access to flavoured vapes in coloured packaging. I have some stats here on it. It is illegal. Despite it being illegal, the latest National Drug Strategy Household Survey found one in 10 Australians under 18 are vapers. This is a fourfold increase since 2019. In Victoria alone, the black market for vapes has been valued at up to $500 million, and this is despite it being illegal.</para>
<para>Australians, including children, are getting ready access to illegal vapes in every state and territory because the law is not being adequately or consistently enforced. It is clear that the current medical model is failing, with only around 10 per cent of current vapers purchasing their product legally through prescriptions. The TGA has acknowledged that the medical model has not achieved its goals. Entrenching the existing failing medical model will not prevent children from having access to vaping products and will further drive the sale of these product to the black market. Labor's prohibition-style approach will play straight into the hands of organised crime syndicates, who are massively profiting from the sale of illegal vapes and the sale of vapes to our children.</para>
<para>We have announced that, if elected, we will take an alternative approach to the government's and crack down on this organised crime that has been allowed to thrive, and we will act to protect Australian children. A coalition government will introduce a strictly regulated retail model for vaping products under the TGA to put a stop to dodgy retailers selling vapes to Australian children with impunity through the rampant black market. This model will include a licensing scheme, prevention campaigns and strong enforcement efforts as part of a sensible approach to keep money out of the hands of criminals while stopping the sale of vapes to children. Our regulated approach will also address the dangerous and unknown chemicals contained in illegal vapes by placing strict requirements on safety and quality—again, noting that many of these single-use vapes that are targeted at children contain very high levels of nicotine, causing nicotine addiction in our children.</para>
<para>By bringing Australia in line with European countries, a regulated model is in the best interests of both public health outcomes and law enforcement. If we are really serious about protecting our children from vaping then we have to be serious about enforcement. That is why the coalition will also provide 10 times more funding towards law enforcement than the government has through a new $250 million law enforcement package. I mean, let's be serious. The government's package of $25 million of law enforcement for vaping is so grossly inadequate it's almost comical. Our $250 million of funding will be used to stand up an illegal tobacco and vaping taskforce, led by the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Border Force, to tackle illegal vapes from the border to the shopfront. It will provide desperately needed Commonwealth leadership to crack down on organised criminal activity and protect our children.</para>
<para>Our coalition has the strength to be honest with the Australian public. The government's senseless and chaotic approach will not protect the health of young Australians who are already buying illicit vaping products. The government's failure to control the illicit vaping market and its failure to protect our children against the proliferation of vaping products mean that greater scrutiny is absolutely essential. It would be completely irresponsible not to demand further investigation into these issues as they evolve. We did this via a Senate inquiry and we should continue to monitor it.</para>
<para>Submissions to the inquiry were provided by a wide range of stakeholders and raised some really significant concerns. Notably, the inquiry highlighted how the illicit vaping black market is out of control and thriving in Australia. We heard evidence through this process that reiterated our concerns that entrenching the failed prescription-only model will not prevent children from having access to vaping products and will further drive the sale of these products to the black market. That is why it is clear that regulating the vaping market through strict and sensible retail based policies will protect our children from the harms of vaping and will protect our community from organised crime.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government sought to pass the Public Health (Tobacco and Other Products) Bill last year without addressing this thriving illicit tobacco trade. Why? The news is filled with stories of firebombings of cigarette stores and convenience stores as a result of this black market. In a clear acknowledgement of their lack of action on enforcement, the government supported the coalition's amendment to establish a new illicit tobacco and e-cigarette commissioner within the Australian Border Force. The coalition welcomed the government's decision to support our amendment and our leadership to protect Australians from the growing black market in both illicit tobacco and illicit vapes. The commissioner would support developing and implementing strategies for addressing those illicit substances and enforcing existing regulations. We called on the government to act quickly to set up the commissioner and adequately address the tobacco black market. However, it is clear that the government have failed to do so. They must tell us whether any meaningful work has been done to establish this critically important commission.</para>
<para>I would like to finalise my comments with some quotes from the vaping inquiry that I and Senator Cadell sat on. The committee heard evidence relating to consumer and community safety. We heard that according to the Office of Impact Analysis's <inline font-style="italic">Pr</inline><inline font-style="italic">oposed reforms to the regulation of vape</inline><inline font-style="italic">s: Impact</inline><inline font-style="italic"> analysis</inline>, the number of adults who have a nicotine prescription for vapes is as low as three per cent, indicating that as many as 97 per cent of adult vapers are purchasing unregulated products. During my exchange with from the fields Pharmaceutical, Mr David said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You just need to look at the numbers. Today there are anywhere from one to 1.7 million adults who are vaping … Unfortunately, their access point has been through unregulated illegal products, which are far more dangerous than regulated products.</para></quote>
<para>The Royal Australian College of General Practitioners stated Australia is the only country in the world to restrict access to nicotine vaping products on a prescription-only basis. Despite the Australian government being a global outlier, there has been a dramatic increase in youth vaping under this policy.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's always been illegal to sell vapes and e-cigarettes to minors. Vapes are, of course, addictive, and their contents are often a mystery box to their users. The level of nicotine in one vape can equal the nicotine in fifty cigarettes. I'm not going to go over too much why vapes are bad for your health, bad for your pockets, bad for the environment and simply bad—think cancer, think lung scarring, think poisoning and think addiction. My focus is on why the Labor government's response to this product is bad too. It's a typical response from this Labor government and the Australian Greens: a big announcement but with little likely impact.</para>
<para>With a kaleidoscope of colours and flavours such as peach, grape and lemonade, vapes are packaged and marketed to audiences to entice young people. It is shameful but sadly successful. In fact, curiosity was the reason for vaping given by 73 per cent of respondents aged 15 to 24 in the National Drug Strategy Household Survey. The outcome of the increase in vaping and e-cigarettes and the delay by this government in delivering this bill has been significant takeup, more nicotine addiction and, of course, in the last 12 months, a significant increase in organised crime.</para>
<para>It's the story everywhere. In my home state of South Australia, statistics revealed just last week showed that 15 per cent of school-aged students, aged 12 to 17 years old, used an e-cigarette at least once during the past month. That is 2.4 per cent higher than it was in 2017.</para>
<para>Nationally, there has been a sixfold increase in the use of vapes by youth aged 15 to 24 since 2019. The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare states that 13 per cent of Australians aged 15 to 24 currently using e-cigarettes were not smoking regular cigarettes in 2022 or 2023. Parents I talk to tell stories, relayed through their children, of kids as young as 11 and 12 hiding out in the school toilets to satisfy what may already be, but will surely eventually be, a vaping addiction. Walk down any stairwell in any Australian CBD and take a closer look at the street gutters; you will see vape cartridges just about everywhere. The illicit trade in South Australia, and no doubt across our nation, is enormous. An eight-week blitz last year took more than 4,000 illegal vapes off South Australian streets, and 12 Adelaide businesses were fined. That was in eight weeks. In January more than 13 tonnes of disposable vapes were seized in Adelaide. That illegal haul was the equivalent of 30 grand pianos.</para>
<para>I'm interested in all Australians being protected equally where it can be done and reducing harm generally, but, as shadow minister for child protection, I think this discussion is of particular importance because of those who are more likely to be disproportionately affected when it fails to deliver the outcomes that the Labor Party and the Australian Greens intended it to deliver. Use of e-cigarettes has increased among priority populations in Australia in recent years, including among low-socioeconomic-status groups, people who haven't finished high school, the unemployed, regional Australians and those who identify as LGBTQIA+. People with a mental health condition are about twice as likely to currently use e-cigarettes—12.3 per cent, compared with 5.8 per cent of people without a mental illness being diagnosed.</para>
<para>The coalition has also been clear from the get-go that our priority is to protect Australian children from the harms of vaping and e-cigarettes. While there are arguments for the therapeutic benefits of vapes, the selling of nicotine vapes through chemists is not an answer to stopping illegal vapes reaching our shores and our children. Last I looked, chemists are not tobacconists. They have been blindsided by this Australian Greens and Labor government coalition. It is under this Albanese Labor government that a thriving and dangerous black market has grown, and with that growth there has been a flourishing criminal element associated with that black market. State and territory governments can definitely do better to apply the law, because clearly it's not being adequately applied right now. Of course, the Commonwealth—that would be the Albanese government—must do more and can do more. It's allocation for law enforcement is nowhere near enough under this model.</para>
<para>It is illegal to buy a nicotine vape without a prescription. That has always been the case—and I have to say it again—yet only around 10 per cent of vapers buy their product legally through prescriptions. That's the reality of this challenge, and it's not addressed in this bill. Labor's prohibition-style approach plays straight into the hands of those organised crime syndicates and triads who are already profiting from this lucrative illegal trade. This bill amends the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989—or the TGA Act, as most people would know it—to ban the importation, domestic manufacture, supply, commercial possession and advertisement of single-use, disposable and non-therapeutic vapes. It preserves patient access to therapeutic vapes for smoking cessation and the management of nicotine dependence where clinically appropriate. However, as Labor senators have admitted, teachers do not want to police vapes in schools, just as chemists have reacted by saying they don't want to sell vapes. You would have known that if you had asked them. Chemists do not want to sell e-cigarettes and vapes beside essential medicines like Panadol and Nurofen. It's just not the right product mix. As my Senate colleague Senator Kovacic said: 'Why wouldn't you put it with other cigarette products and treat it the same?' It's all nicotine. That's the dangerous part. That's the common part in all of this. I don't get why you don't get it.</para>
<para>The coalition won't stand in the way of passing this bill and supports aspects of it, but fundamentally it's a flawed model. Firstly it bans predatory and dangerous single-use disposable vaping products popular with children, because those single-use products specifically target them. That's a good thing. Secondly the bill creates one single framework under the TGA for the regulation of all vaping products, regardless of their nicotine content, and the coalition would do the same in our strictly regulated retail model, if elected.</para>
<para>But there are some really dumb elements of this bill. This government has already failed to establish or fund its promised illicit tobacco and vaping commissioner. But Australians are getting used to broken promises and disappointment under this government. Currently the vaping black market is estimated to be around $1 billion, which is fuelled by the importation of more than 100 million illicit disposable devices each year. We've all seen the firebombings—the extortion tactics targeting tobacco and vaping retailers. It is yet another failure on national security under this Albanese Labor government that that hasn't been addressed. This Albanese government has failed to adequately explain how they will ensure enforcement measures are properly funded, not just at the border but also at the point of sale, and how they will measure the success or the failure of this policy.</para>
<para>Of course, the coalition government approach would be different to this one. It would introduce a strictly regulated retail model for vaping products under the TGA to put a stop to dodgy retailers selling vapes with impunity through the rampant black market to Australian children. A coalition government would provide 10 times more funding towards law enforcement than Labor through a new $250 million law enforcement package. This funding would be used to stand up an illegal tobacco and vaping taskforce, led by the Australian Federal Police and the Australian Border Force, to tackle illegal vapes from the border to the shopfront, because that's what's actually needed. This model would include a licensing scheme, prevention campaigns and strong enforcement efforts as part of a sensible approach to keep money out of the hands of criminals while stopping the sale of vapes to children. Our regulated approach would also address the dangerous and unknown chemicals that are contained in illegal vapes by placing strict requirements on safety and quality.</para>
<para>Naive Australians thinking of taking up vapes might think that, just because it's in a chemist or just because it's in a shop, it must be okay for you, on the basis that it's been allowed into this country. That's why looking more at what's in the vapes is equally important. European and Western countries already know that a regulated model is in the best interests of both public health outcomes and law enforcement, because they're already doing it. We all agree that this needs to be addressed, but this approach by this Labor-Greens coalition just won't work. It does not set up for or do the real work of cracking down on crime that will stop the illegal vapes from crossing our borders and coming into the hands of our children.</para>
<para>Vapes, as I mentioned earlier, should be regulated in the same way as cigarettes. The model is there, and the model has worked to reduce the smoking of cigarettes over decades and decades. I don't suggest that anybody hold their breath for this Labor-Greens alliance approach, because it won't do the job that it could or it should do. Australian parents and children have been sold short by this model. It could be so much better than what has been presented by the Australian Greens and the Albanese Labor government in this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to quote from an article in the <inline font-style="italic">Guardian</inline> from earlier today. This is an article by Josh Butler and Melissa Davey. They write:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The lobby group representing pharmacy owners said its members were "gobsmacked" by a deal between the Greens and Labor which will see vapes sold over-the-counter by pharmacists without a prescription, claiming they only heard the changes via media release after the deal was done.</para></quote>
<para>They were gobsmacked. I love that word 'gobsmacked'. It means flabbergasted, astounded. Gob, from the old Irish Gaelic, means mouth. Gobsmacked—that's what they were. The pharmacists were gobsmacked. We've had this wonderful deal which has been done between Labor and the Greens. Labor and the Greens have got together, and they've decided that their compromised position is: 'We're going to get the pharmacists to sell vaping products without prescription.' That's wonderful, except they didn't talk to the pharmacists. They didn't talk to the people who they expect to sell the product. It's almost like you're in the crowd watching the emperor with no clothes, and you've just pointed it out, saying, 'The emperor has no clothes.' The pharmacies weren't consulted. You're expecting them to sell a product. You're placing all sorts of obligations on them. They don't want to do it. The emperor has no clothes at all.</para>
<para>This is what the pharmacists said in their media release from 24 June titled 'Not tobacconists or garbologists':</para>
<quote><para class="block">A Bill is currently before Parliament to change the current medicines schedule for nicotine-containing vapes from Schedule 4 (Prescription Only) to Schedule 3 (Pharmacist Only).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The result of the proposed change is that nicotine-containing vapes could be available for purchase through a community pharmacy without the requirement for a valid prescription.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Guild strongly opposes this proposal.</para></quote>
<para>It's there in big bold type: 'The guild strongly opposes this proposal.' So Labor and the Greens have reached a compromised position, which is that only pharmacists can sell vaping products without prescription, but the pharmacists don't want to do it. This is quite absurd. It's absolutely absurd. It's hard to believe we're legislating in this way. It really is genuinely hard to believe.</para>
<para>Labor and the Greens make a deal and have a wonderful thought bubble: the pharmacists will sell vaping products. But they don't want to do it. What could possibly go wrong? Here's an idea: they won't do it. They won't actually sell the vaping products. I can give you a reason why. I've read every word of the amendment. This is what you expect a pharmacist to do when they're selling this vaping product. You're basically expecting them to do everything a doctor would do when they prescribe these products. Why are they going to spend the time and effort to do everything a doctor would be required to do to prescribe such a product for medicinal purposes when they're not being paid for that and they can only charge $25 or $35 for the vaping product? This is what they've got to do. Just listen to this list. Put yourself in the position of a pharmacist who needs to do this with respect to selling a product worth, say, $25 or $35, and you'll see the absurdity of this proposal.</para>
<para>This is item (11) subsection (6):</para>
<quote><para class="block">The pharmacist must:</para></quote>
<para>'Must'—so they need to keep a record of this—</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) inform the patient, or a parent or a guardian of the patient, that the therapeutic good is not a listed good or registered good; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) obtain informed consent from the patient, or a parent or a guardian of the patient, in relation to, and before, the supply of the therapeutic good; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) supply the therapeutic good in accordance with good pharmacy practice; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) provide professional advice to the patient on alternative cessation supports and therapies, appropriate dose and frequency depending on age, weight and severity of condition, length of treatment, suitable titration, and interactions with other medicines; and—</para></quote>
<para>It's not finished—</para>
<quote><para class="block">(e) provide contact details about smoking cessation support services to the patient; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) if the pharmacist becomes aware that the patient has suffered an adverse event in relation to the therapeutic good—notify the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the sponsor of the therapeutic good about the adverse event in accordance with the reporting guidelines set out in the SAS Guidance; and—</para></quote>
<para>It goes over the page. What could possibly go wrong?</para>
<quote><para class="block">(g) if the pharmacist becomes aware of a defect in the therapeutic good—notify the Therapeutic Goods Administration and the sponsor of the therapeutic good in accordance with the reporting guidelines set out in the SAS Guidance.</para></quote>
<para>So they've got to do seven different things in relation to selling a $25 or $35 product. They've essentially got to perform the role of a GP issuing a script, except they're not going to be able to charge for it. What could possibly go wrong? Here's an idea: they won't do it. They won't do it because it's too onerous. They won't do it because they don't want to do it. This is what the people you're expecting to do this say: 'Everyone wants to keep illegal vapes out of the hands of kids and teenagers, but the Senate wants pharmacists to stock vapes next to children's Panadol, cold and flu medicine, and emergency contraception.'</para>
<para>I haven't even started dealing with the issue of the Senate's expectation that community pharmacies will become vape retailers and vape garbage collectors. I couldn't find that in the amendment. I don't know if it was intended to actually be in the amendment, but I can't find anything referring to disposal in the amendment. I just make that comment by the way. I know that this is being done on the run. The Senate's expectation that community pharmacies will become vape retailers and vape garbage collectors is insulting. That's what the people whom you're expecting to sell this product and do all those things listed in 11(6)(a) to (g) are telling us.</para>
<para>Labor and the Greens have come up with this proposal that the pharmacists, and only pharmacists, will sell vaping products. You put all these burdens onto pharmacists, if they choose to do it, and are you then expecting that they're going to do it? Why would they? You can't make a profit selling a $25 to $35 product, providing all of that therapeutic advice and doing all that record keeping listed in (6)(a) to (g). It's impossible to do that properly, including—I just want to read this again, and just reflect on this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… provide professional advice to the patient on alternative cessation supports and therapies, appropriate dose and frequency depending on age, weight and severity of condition, length of treatment, suitable titration, and interactions with other medicines …</para></quote>
<para>Seriously?</para>
<para>I spent a morning with a pharmacist earlier this year, after we moved to 60-day prescriptions, and that gave me an insight into the burdens we're placing on our community pharmacists. I saw the interactions between that pharmacist and their patients, the issues they had to deal with on an unremunerated basis and the pressure they were under. Owners of community pharmacies are working six or seven days a week because they cannot afford to employ other pharmacists in their stores. I can tell you that, with that shopping list of things they're required to do under this model, it will not work.</para>
<para>You should have the review. I suggest you have the review in a month, after the new scheme comes in, rather than in three years, because I think that we'll know it's a dud after a month. It will have failed miserably. You will have people from all over Australia coming into the pharmacy saying, 'I want to buy vapes,' and the pharmacist will say, 'We don't do that.' The more I think about it, you will see a proliferation of signs across community pharmacies all over Australia saying, 'We do not sell vapes.' What are you going to do then? What's plan B? Because you didn't even talk to those people you were expecting to play a key role in relation to this compromise. It's absolutely astounding. I wish you good luck, but I deeply fear this is going to be an unmitigated disaster and that you will be back in this place in a number of months with plan B, whatever that will be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a replacement explanatory memorandum relating to the Therapeutic Goods and Other Legislation Amendment (Vaping Reforms) Bill 2024. The replacement explanatory memorandum responds to matters raised by the Scrutiny of Bills Committee.</para>
<para>In summing up, I simply thank senators for their contributions to the debate on this bill, and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 21:36</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>