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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2024-06-24</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Monday, 24 June 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 10:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there is no objection, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Victoria</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Senators Sworn</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government continues to reiterate its view that it cannot agree with the assertions made in this motion. We do, however, acknowledge the interest in the chamber in reforming the NDIS to get it back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians. I also acknowledge the recent commitment by the Leader of the Opposition to working together with the government to this end.</para>
<para>On 8 February 2024 the government tabled the final report of the Independent Review into the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which was publicly released in December 2023. In producing this report, the independent NDIS review panel travelled to every state and territory, including regional and remote communities. It heard directly from more than 10,000 Australians, worked with disability organisations to reach out and listen to more than 1,000 people with disability and their families, recorded more than 2,000 personal stories and received almost 4,000 submissions. The review delivered 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to respond to its terms of reference.</para>
<para>In delivering its recommendations, the review provided exhaustive analysis and proposals to improve the operation, effectiveness and sustainability of the NDIS. The independent NDIS review panel has said its reforms can improve the scheme and meet National Cabinet's annual growth target of no more than eight per cent growth by 1 July 2026. Discussions have continued with senators across this chamber as well as with members in the other place to address questions about the government's NDIS reform agenda that it is pursuing together with the disability community. We look forward to working with senators in this place to get the NDIS back on track and ensure its sustainability for future generations of Australians.</para>
<para>In relation to the order being discussed, the government have previously outlined that we have claimed public interest immunity over the requested documents, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. The Minister representing the Treasurer has already tabled key documents for the benefit of the Senate in addition to the aforementioned review.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the explanation.</para></quote>
<para>After months and months and months of the Senate demanding that the government make public, that they release, the commitments they made—the details of the agreements they signed in relation to our NDIS, the details of the deal they did behind closed doors, behind the backs of disabled people and our families, which resulted in the capping of the NDIS, and their commitment to cut billions from the vitally needed supports provided by the NDIS—I still do not believe that this government really gets it, really understands why this information is important. So, let me spell it out for you in the clearest possible terms.</para>
<para>You made a commitment, a deal behind closed doors, to cap the expenditure of the scheme. In doing that, you sent a very clear signal to disabled people that our support needs, our services, our therapies, would now come second, behind the government's desire to balance its budget spreadsheets. That has two drastic implications: (1) How many people will therefore be kicked off the scheme? And (2) How many services and supports will be removed from people who currently need them? As a Senate we have tried, again and again, to get answers to these questions. Yet we have been stonewalled at every step, at every moment, by a government that promised transparency, consultation and authentic co-design.</para>
<para>Many on the government's side in the Senate may be wondering why I and so many other disabled people want answers to these questions, why we have fought for this information. Let me paint this picture. Let me try once again to give you this information. Can you imagine what it is like to sit in a wheelchair that is so small and old that it rubs pressure sores into your legs the size of eggcups? Can you imagine what it is like to be forced to live in a group home with people you don't know, with people who scare you, where you are showered only once or twice a week by somebody who doesn't look at you, by somebody who touches you, by somebody who won't listen, won't respond, doesn't treat you like a human?</para>
<para>Can you imagine what it is like to watch your son being bullied, excluded at school, falling behind, while knowing that if only you could afford the therapies and supports he needs he might be able to join the playgroup, might be able to learn how to read and write, might be able to be included, might be able to find joy in his time at kindergarten or preschool instead of enduring it? Can you imagine what it is like to look down at the hospital bed of your daughter, framed once again by guards, with scars up her arms, wasted away, while knowing that surely if the system had only seen her as a whole person, had only provided her with supports, rather than passing the buck, she might not be there?</para>
<para>We can imagine. Those were our lives before the NDIS. They are still the lives of too many of us today. That scheme gave us chance and hope to escape discrimination and to live with freedom. And you've cut it behind our backs. You do deals behind our backs. Therefore, we will not stop, we will not cease to get that answer, to get that clarity—not now and not ever.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Steele-John, once again, you are incredibly well spoken as you stand up for so many people with a disability. But, again, it's a shameful performance by the government as they continue to refuse to respond to this Senate's demands to provide the financial modelling that underpins capping the growth of the National Disability Insurance Scheme.</para>
<para>Most people don't live daily around the NDIS and don't rely on it. I don't rely on it as a disabled person, but I rely on it in having a son who is a participant. I need to know, when I'm not there, that my son is going to be looked after. I need to be secure—going to Senator Steele-John's point—that he's not going to be put in a group home with people he doesn't know. I need to know that he's not going to be diminished as a person, and that every skill he is taught—as a child, through his teenage years and as we continue to teach him—will open up his world and give him opportunities. I need to know, when I'm not there to keep the fight up for him, that he will be safe, he will be treated with respect and he will be able to live a life of dignity. But I don't know because, at the moment, we have a government hiding behind opacity. They said they would be transparent, yet here we are again with just another policy area being hidden behind National Cabinet and non-disclosure agreements.</para>
<para>We're consistently told that they can't release this modelling because it will undermine the relationship with the states, because the states are supposed to have come on board to agree to fund what we now know colloquially as foundational supports. The great thing is, when you ask disability groups, as we have done at different inquiries, 'What do you understand foundational supports to be?' they come at us with a list of things that they wish they were, what they think they should be and what they hope they will be. Unfortunately, we don't know what they are, because this minister and this government won't tell us what they consider to be a foundational support. Is community health coming back to provide speech therapy and occupational therapy for kids who don't have a permanent, lifelong disability but need a bit of assistance? We don't know.</para>
<para>The government hides behind the states. I'll give you a tip, guys: your relationships are already fractured. The premiers are already out there saying that they do not have the funding. The health ministers, education ministers and disability ministers at every state level are saying that they do not have the funding to move back into the space. Quite frankly, the states should be ashamed of themselves for the way they vacated disability as quickly as they could, but we know that was a design flaw purposely put in place, fundamentally, by the Gillard government to get them to sign up. We know that the states have no concept of what these supports are and what they're supposed to look like. They don't know how quickly they're supposed to be ramping them up. They have no idea how they're going to pay for them or exactly what they're going to do. This is absolutely causing angst not just amongst children in the early childhood stream, though that is a hugely important issue, but much more broadly within the disability sector. We don't know, in a demand driven scheme, whether it's the number of participants that is going to be cut or the value of the plans that is going to be cut—because they are the only ways you can make cuts.</para>
<para>What I've found really disturbing over the past couple of weeks is the number of families that have reached out to me in absolute despair having just gone through a review. These were children under school age, but I also was reached out to recently because of a girl who left school last year who has an intellectual as well as other disabilities. She has been cut back to the point that she has one hour of speech therapy a month and one hour of OT a month. She has four hours of community support per week, and she was told that the level of reduction in her services was because of the new legislation—the new legislation that hasn't even been introduced to the Senate yet. It's not even here yet, but, somehow or other, the agency is already making claims to slash plans based on this current legislation. Again, this is taking away opportunity. This young girl is desperate to get a job. But, instead of underpinning the insurance principles of the National Disability Insurance Scheme, the agency is slashing and burning. For those people with a disability, it's absolutely hurting their lives and their ability to participate in the community as well as hurting them economically. Shame on you for continuing to hide.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, here we are again. For nine months in this place, Greens and coalition members have been locked as one to try and get the smallest degree of transparency from those opposite—and, yet again, they fail to provide. In some ways, it's hard to put in words how awful the situation that those opposite have put us into has become. It's been nine months of this place trying to get the most basic information from those opposite on the largest public policy reform over the last 30 years in this country. Time and time again, through motions in this place and in estimates, we have sought some accountability from the government—and debate on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 is coming up after this business today.</para>
<para>This government were in opposition when I as minister, and my predecessor, started saying that this is a scheme in trouble. It was created far too fast by those opposite, instead of having a long runway to design and develop the National Disability Insurance Scheme, to trial it, to work out how to bring people in a methodical way into the scheme, to make sure they had the support they needed and to make sure that the scheme was only used by those it was designed for. But it became very clear after the first few years of implementation that things were going badly astray. As we'll talk about more today, that was because of the original legislation. Giving the benefit of the doubt to those opposite, they didn't realise—and I don't think we did either at the time—just how flawed that legislation was.</para>
<para>Here we are, over a decade later, and this is a scheme that, by design of those opposite, has no brakes on it. With Medicare, the PBS and all other demand driven schemes, those who control the purse strings are able to manage the two drivers of cost: people who are eligible for the scheme and how much they get paid. But, for the NDIS, that simply is not possible. Bill Shorten, the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, has spent two years after coming into government saying that there were no problems with this scheme. He has spent more time worrying about how he could insult me and insult my intelligence—and he was still doing it yesterday in op-eds. He should have spent less time worrying about all his zingers of insults and more time worrying about the design of this scheme, three years after we rang the bell that we needed to work together to fix this scheme to make sure that it provided certainty for everybody with a serious and permanent disability. But, no, what has he done over the last two years? This minister has spent the two years conducting a review that was never needed because we'd already had reviews. We know what the problems are with the scheme. There are many. None of the real problems are easy to fix, but they can be fixed. He has now left it for three years and the scheme has got worse.</para>
<para>In fact, over the last year alone, under his watch, the cost of the scheme—taxpayers' money—has increased by over 21 per cent. Instead of working across the chamber—and on all sides of the chamber we've reached out to say, 'Let's work on this together'—the minister has had NDAs with the sector around this legislation. He's had a review that reported in December. We still don't have a government response to it. He's now developed and is seeking to implement legislation with a completely inadequate inquiry which they've sausage-factoried through. They've already come up with a whole raft of amendments because the legislation is so bad, and yet, today, we don't have the financial figures. They spend most of their time working out how they can avoid transparency in the Senate and at estimates. At additional estimates this year, they wouldn't even provide the figures for the additional estimates variation of over $1 billion. If they had put more effort into redesigning this to save this scheme, put the controls in place and renegotiate the intergovernmental agreements with states and territories, who have completely abrogated their responsibilities to the other four million people with disability that they were supposed to look after—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Reynolds. Senator Kovacic.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The NDIS website says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our role is to … support a better life for hundreds of thousands of Australians with a significant and permanent disability and their families and carers.</para></quote>
<para>What I'm really curious to know is why this government doesn't feel that these same people deserve transparency. Why won't this government answer these questions? Time and time again, we have to listen to another minister creating more excuses as to why important documents relating to the functions of government and ordered to be produced by this Senate—in this example, following a motion moved by Senator Jordon Steele-John—cannot be tabled to this Senate. This is unacceptable. This cannot continue to go on. So long have they strayed from their promise of transparent government that they no longer even pretend to stand by that value. The transparency that we heard about over and over again no longer exists.</para>
<para>The NDIS provides critical services. We understand it does need some fixing so that we can afford to fund it and so that it continues to support the people who need it. Because of this, understanding the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework is crucial. If we don't understand it, if we don't know what underpins it, if we don't know what the financial modelling is, how can it continue to effectively work? It can't.</para>
<para>This would not be acceptable in any commercial business in this country—or anywhere, for that matter, in my view. Yet this government believes that it can withhold this critical information and continue to withhold it, despite ongoing requests to table that information. It is our job in this chamber to be the second pair of eyes over legislation and policy, and this government is not allowing us to do our job. It is our job to scrutinise and to hold the government to account. That's what happens in a democracy. Where are the documents that we have requested to be tabled, and why won't they be tabled? How can we perform our duties when the government won't even perform theirs by producing the documents that this chamber has demanded, and rightly demanded?</para>
<para>Six hundred and sixty thousand Australians rely on the NDIS for support. A few weeks ago I had the honour of going to the Shepherd Centre, an organisation that provides, in its words, a voice to deaf children. I spoke to a number of parents and saw with my own eyes the significant positive impact that that organisation has on deaf children—the smiles on children's faces when they heard noises. Will their services be cut? By how much? Will the number of services they can receive be cut? Will the quantum of the services be cut? We don't know, because this government won't answer those questions. Those families, whose children need critical support in the first three years of life, where early intervention is crucial, don't know what's coming, because this government won't tell anybody. That is unacceptable.</para>
<para>Because we are denied this information to scrutinise government, Australians do not have the transparency they deserve, either as participants or as citizens, and it degrades the confidence in the NDIS as an institution because of the actions of this very government. You have pulled the rug out from NDIS participants, some of our most vulnerable people. This is not the transparent government that you promised us before the last election.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the outset I would like to compliment the previous speakers in relation to this matter, especially Senator Steele-John, who spoke from the heart and made a lot of points of substance. I'm sure—I'm absolutely positive—that Senator Steele-John did not have to rely on the services of a $300,000-a-year speechwriter in order to make his points. I'm sure because he was speaking from the heart.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry—I stand corrected by Senator Reynolds; it's $320,000. Can you believe it? The NDIS minister, Bill Shorten, has a speechwriter he pays $320,000 a year. That's extraordinary: $320,000 a year to write speeches. Those sitting in the public gallery have just heard speeches from senators across the chamber in relation to this matter, all delivered from the heart, making points of substance, and not one of them relied upon the services of a $320,000-a-year speechwriter. So I congratulate Senator Steele-John on his independently composed contribution to the Senate, and I also congratulate all the other senators on their contributions to the Senate—obviously their own work, obviously their own homework.</para>
<para>The NDIS system is one of the most important policy areas of this country. We all have friends and loved ones who are reliant on this system—every single one of us, every single Australian. So, when we're considering the dimensions of this terribly serious public policy issue, the Australian people—through us in the Senate—have a right to the key financial information which is being considered by governments at all levels in terms of the future of this public policy, the NDIS. That is the right of the Australian people, and here in the Senate we have been seeking the information required for that right to be exercised, for the Australian people to have that key financial information upon which the federal government is making decisions which will have lasting impacts on some of our most vulnerable Australians. That is what's happening here. We're seeking information which the government refuses to provide to us. The government refuses to provide us with the information we need—which the Australian people need—to assess the future of this scheme. We do this nearly every Monday morning of every sitting week. We all line up to make the same points, and it's about time the government listened to those points.</para>
<para>I want to make one point with respect to the public interest immunity claim which has been made by the government. What's happening here is that the government is saying: we can't provide this information to you, the Senate, because it might prejudice relationships between the federal government and the state governments. Now, that begs the question: how? How is it going to prejudice relationships between the federal government and the state governments? We don't know. They don't tell us. And here's the next obvious question: have they actually written to state governments and asked for their permission? Isn't that what you would do if you were saying it could prejudice relations between the federal government and the state governments? If that was an assertion made in good faith, you would contact the state governments and say: 'Look, the Senate is really keen for this information. Do you have any objection to us providing it?' Does that sound logical and reasonable? I would have thought so, but that hasn't been done. If you go to page 666 of <inline font-style="italic">Odgers'</inline>, which is our road map forthe procedures of the Senate, this is what it says about prejudicing state government relations:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This ground, however, has appeared frequently in recent times in the following form: the information concerned belongs to the states as well as to the Commonwealth, and therefore cannot be disclosed without the approval of the states. The obvious response to this is that the agreement of the states to disclose the information should be sought and they should be invited to give reasons for any objection.</para></quote>
<para>That's what our own procedures say. That is what the federal government should do, and that is what the federal government refuses to do because they do not want the Senate—and, through the Senate, the Australian people—to have the information that they have every right to have.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>5</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>5</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7181" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>5</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>6</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bill, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is pleased to be introducing legislation into the Senate today aimed at securing the future of the National Disability Insurance Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'd like to commence my remarks by putting some context for this bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before the National Disability Insurance Scheme was rolled out over a decade ago, Australians with disability were too often unseen and unheard—living in the shadows.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians with disability suffered what was called by some 'the misery lottery'—that is, the disability support was patchy across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Depending on your postcode, you might be lucky enough to get some funding to help you and your family, or otherwise you might live a life of uncertainty and, quite often, disadvantage and poverty.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was in 2009, the then Labor Government, under Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Minister for Social Services Jenny Macklin, commissioned a report to help move the analysis and debate about people with disability in this country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That report was titled <inline font-style="italic">Shut out</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What was uncovered through the consultation phase was 'intensely moving and profoundly shocking'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It painted a picture then of people with disability isolated and alone, their lives a constant struggle for resources and support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An article written about this groundbreaking report at the time said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">"Where once they were shut in, now people with a disability find themselves shut out. Shut out of housing, employment, education, health care, recreation and sport. Shut out of kindergartens, schools, shopping centres and community groups. Shut out of our way of life. This segregation is a national disgrace."</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was clear then that Australia needed a whole system of disability support, and a scheme like the NDIS for people with the most complex support needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The nation and the Parliament at that time made a decision that we would no longer let a person's postcode or financial situation dictate whether they won the disability support lottery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Disability Insurance Scheme has fundamentally changed Australia. The NDIS represents the best about our country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It fulfills a sense of collective responsibility—the essence of the fair go. It's integral to our national identity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Its value is measured in human terms, not just economic.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People with disability should have the support they need to participate in the community and have an ordinary life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Every Australian deserves the peace of mind of knowing that if they or someone they love acquires a significant and permanent disability the NDIS will be there for them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And all of us benefit from building a more inclusive and accessible society.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a 21st century story of successful political change driven by Australians with disability who demanded more control over their destiny, and equality within their own society. After all, Australia was once referred to as having an "egalitarian society"</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can never—must never—return to the days before the NDIS. Through the NDIS, Australians have changed the way we view ourselves. It reflects the nation that we want to see in the mirror.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians do not see people with a disability as 'the other'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They're family, friends, work mates, school mates, our neighbours—any one of us, to be honest, or someone we love.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treating our fellow Australians who have disabilities as second-class citizens—too hard, too costly, someone else's responsibility—reflects an image of ourselves that I don't believe that we should recognise or like.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, despite its life-changing impact, the NDIS has been of losing its way. It has not fully delivered on the original vision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the NDIS has absolutely changed hundreds of thousands of lives for the better, it is not working well for everyone. Participants have spoken about how every interaction with the NDIS can become a battle.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They've voiced their frustration at having to prove, year after year, that they still are blind or they still have Down syndrome or motor neurone disease.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This was a Scheme that, along with thousands of passionate champions for the cause, that we've worked tirelessly to help establish.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before our NDIS people with disability were treated as second-class citizens—out of sight, out of mind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We said, 'Never again'—never again would Australians with disability be forgotten.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have worked every day with the disability sector to do everything we can to make life on the NDIS and life for people with disability in Australia better.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We promised to make the NDIS a priority and not penalise people with disability for wanting to live fulfilled lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We promised to put more people with disability on the NDIS board and conduct a root-and-branch Review of the Scheme. This is an election commitment we met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We promised to make the Scheme sustainable so that future generations of Australians with disability would have an NDIS to access.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We made a promise to ensure that the Scheme is sustainable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And we promised to restore trust in the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The work began in earnest within days of the election.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We now have more people with lived experience on the NDIS board than in the entire history of the Scheme. We have our first Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander board member.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We're getting more people with disability who are eligible for the NDIS and fit for discharge, discharged from hospital rather than waiting in beds when they are medically fit to go home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've slashed the 4½ thousand legacy appeal cases that were languishing in long queues at the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've established a partnership between the National Disability Insurance Agency and the First Peoples Disability Network to collaborate on the new First Nations NDIS strategy and action plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've established the Inklings pilot with the Telethon Kids Institute in Western Australia to help families of children who are showing early signs of autism with evidence based interventions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Early intervention is one of the key principles of the NDIS, and the world-leading Inklings program takes us from a 'wait and see' approach to an 'identify and act' approach.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Early intervention is crucial for a life with less reliance on supports later on and the chance for a child to flourish.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We also promised to make the Scheme safer for people with disability, and to tackle fraud, waste and overcharging so that every dollar goes towards a better outcome for the participant, not someone trying to make a quick, dirty buck.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In its first year, the Fraud Fusion Taskforce that we established has investigated more than a hundred cases involving more than $1 billion of NDIS funding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Michael Phelan, a former director of the Australian Institute of Criminology, and decorated former police officer, is now the Acting Commissioner of the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission is part of the taskforce alongside the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the NDIA to weed out those charging more for equipment and services simply because you have an NDIS funding package.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is wrong and it's a breach of federal law and we've upgraded the NDIS rules to make it clear that an NDIS 'wedding tax' is not on. That is when people approach a service provider and say, 'I'm on the NDIS,' and the price inexplicably goes up for an identical service.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I do say to service providers who are complaining about our campaign on price gouging: putting unfair treatment—by, admittedly, a small minority of service providers—in the too-hard basket undermines the reputation of the many very good, dedicated service providers, and ignoring price gouging and unethical conduct is a betrayal of NDIS participants and Aussie taxpayers and jeopardises the credibility and social license of the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further legal changes are coming, to more strongly prohibit and punish such unethical practices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But while an enormous amount has been achieved in a short period of time, there is much more to do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The independent NDIS Review panel undertook some of the most extensive consultation with the Australian community in the history of the Commonwealth, to set a new course for the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review's final report, released publicly on 7 December 2023, made 26 recommendations and 139 supporting actions to Government, all based on what the panel heard from more than 10,000 people, disability organisations, and what they read in almost 4,000 submissions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Cabinet considered the final report and, as part of the initial response, agreed that the Commonwealth would work with State and Territory Governments to implement legislative and other changes in the first half of 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I do acknowledge the remarkable goodwill of State Premiers and Territory Chief Ministers in agreeing to work as one for Australians with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I certainly applaud their commitment last December to fund additional disability services outside the NDIS program—the 'foundational supports' that we speak of—and I also acknowledge that they have agreed to contribute more directly to the NDIS from 1 July 2028.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the report was handed down, Minister Shorten has held no less than 10 town hall meetings around Australia where thousands of people attended in person and online.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The town halls were held to provide transparency, to listen and to reassure. This is the cornerstone of this Government's commitment to people with disability. We have been on the frontline with people with disability and the sector always—the NDIS is testament to this—and we will not waiver from this loyalty and responsibility.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We've had almost 10 years of delay on NDIS progress working for Australians with disability and the Review Panel also tells us that any changes we make to the Scheme will take years to properly implement. The process of reform will take years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians with a disability shouldn't wait a day longer than they have to for Governments at all levels to work together with people with disability to improve the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government is committed to engaging and consulting with people with disability, their families, carers, representative organisations, service providers, unions, and the broader community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have made the promise to co-design with people with disability and the sector and we will make good on this promise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill provides the framework for broader reform to the Scheme and the Government is committed to ensuring the design and implementation of these changes will include extensive consultation and co-design with the disability community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will be achieved through working together with the disability community to design and implement legislative instruments to ensure people with disability remain at the centre of the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Australia, we have an extensive network of excellent and engaged peak bodies that are recognised as representing people with disability and carers, have members who are people with disability or family members and hold valued roles on many advisory groups.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Disability Representative Organisations will play a key role in consultation and co-design activities which will include:</para></quote>
<list>Involving people from the disability community in projects to help define problems, find solutions, ultimately refine and implement those solutions.</list>
<list>Co-design workshops on specific issues, processes or products.</list>
<list>Focus groups, interviews and engagement with participants, families and carers.</list>
<list>Engagement events with members of the public and stakeholders including webinars, information sessions and community updates.</list>
<list>Surveys, discussion papers and submissions.</list>
<list>Research and partnerships with disability organisations and experts.</list>
<list>Targeted approaches to hear from under-represented participants and groups.</list>
<quote><para class="block">We want people to know they have a seat at the table and they will be listened to. We are committed to working WITH people, not doing things TO people. It's always been the sector's humble yet powerful mantra: "Nothing about us without us".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill will enable new and expanded rule- and instrument-making powers. This is why we have committed to co-design.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The legislative approach taken is that we seek to establish an enabling architecture for rules and future reforms to restore the original intent, integrity, consistency and transparency of the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These rules, together with all legislative instruments provided for in the bill, will be developed with all states and territories following the consultation with the disability community. I have just outlined.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Deep and considered collaboration with the disability sector on design is essential. This was the clarion call from the NDIS Review panel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will be complemented by design and development of foundational supports to assist people with a disability, including those outside the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This principle has also been agreed by all Governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is only the first step in this process of reform outlined by the Review. There remains an enormous amount of work to do together to implement the reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will work with state and territory partners, and across the political divide with The Opposition, to deliver a common vision for the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I note the Opposition has told Australians they will support this bill and work with Minister Shorten on improving the sustainability of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Shadow NDIS Minister indicated in his second reading speech that the Opposition would not oppose the Bill in the House. The Government welcomes this support,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Simply put, we wish to put the NDIS above the day-to-day political debate between levels of Government and between political parties, because Australians with disability and their families deserve nothing less.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will absolutely continue to engage with participants, their families, carers and disability representative organisations to ensure that this blueprint for the future reflects their experience and contributions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill is the next part of our journey towards an improved NDIS. It is about securing the NDIS for future generations of Australians and making sure it working for participants now and into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's also a first step in responding to the NDIS Review findings, and to the disability community who so generously shared their experiences and insights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But I'd like to talk directly to the 660,000 Australians who are NDIS participants, to the 400,000 people who work in NDIS related occupations, to families, carers and guardians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I know that much needed—and indeed much wanted—change can produce anxiety. I want to reassure people with disability, advocates and the sector, we have listened to your feedback and made changes to the bill to align with your advice and experience. There are four main amendments that this government is introducing into the Senate today. These are on the back of the 12 week Senate inquiry into the Bill, which recommended the Bill be passed subject to the amendments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Talk of any change to a family battling to make ends meet can sound like a problem, not an opportunity, and I can respect nervousness which might be caused by this discussion. I just want to reassure these people who've battled hard to create an NDIS and to get their packages of support: we will work with you to make sure that people are getting the right support in the right way.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under this Government this Scheme will continue to grow. Changes will be for the best interests of the participant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A critical element of design and development following passage of the bill will be a person-centered model for needs assessment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will deliver consistency and equity for planning decisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, access to the NDIS should not depend on how rich you are or who you know or the expert medical reports that you are able to procure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This change that we're talking about will not take effect until design is done and new rules are made—transition will take time, and we don't seek to rush that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, agreement by all state and federal Governments means the NDIS will become one part of a larger ecosystem of supports rather than being in danger of being the only lifeboat in the ocean.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before I talk about some of the technical parts of the bill, I do want to flag that some of the following part of this presentation will have some technical discussion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm here to explain its intent in plain language so that people with disability and their families, and disability organisations understand what is changing and when it will be changing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What we have to do is reform the National Disability Insurance Scheme Act of 2013 (the NDIS Act) and we have four goals:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1) that the NDIS provide a better experience for participants</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2) that the Scheme be restored to its original intent to support people with significant and permanent disability</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3) that the Scheme be equitable, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4) that the Scheme be sustainable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill has two parts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One section lays the foundations for implementing key Review recommendations, particularly those around planning and budget setting.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I want to go through some of that with you.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Once you're in the Scheme, you will get a plan based on your support needs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What we all want is a more dignified, person-centered process that assesses needs to determine a consistent, accurate and fair budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that that budget can be spent flexibly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This starts with a needs assessment that we'll work on with the disability sector to make sure we get it right.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I want to be clear. 'Reasonable and necessary' remains the core basis on which your support needs are met through the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill proposes no changes to the 'reasonable and necessary' core operating principle of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But your needs assessment will look at your support needs as a whole—and we won't distinguish between primary and secondary disabilities any longer. This government is moving an amendment to clarify this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If over time your support needs change, because of a significant change in your function, your information can be updated with a new support needs assessment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The result will be a budget for disability supports that are fit for you; that reflect the support needs for your disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">You can spend this budget flexibly in line with your own support needs—because you know them best. But everyone will need to manage their NDIS budget, just as we do with our household budgets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will be clear about what supports can and can't be funded by the NDIS to help you make informed choices and have confidence that you're using your NDIS funds within what is allowed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes to be implemented will be developed with people with disability and the disability sector. This will take time to get right. The legislation is starting to deliver our vision for a future NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation is not an end in itself. Until the rules and subsequent legislative instruments are made, the current planning rules will continue to apply once the rules are in place. Flexible budgets and a whole-of-person approach will increase the ability of participants to exercise real, true choice and control and to best realise their full social and economic participation in Australian society.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The changes to budget setting aim to provide participants with greater clarity and transparency and with fairer and more consistent decision-making, and will improve participant satisfaction. Creating this budget framework aligns with the original intent of the NDIS to support people with a permanent, significant disability as part of a larger landscape of supports outside the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before we can introduce these things a lot of work needs to be done collaboratively with people with disability, their families, represented organisations, and state and territory Governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are also some operational changes that need to be made. This is the second part of the bill. I know that some people feel anxious when we talk about Scheme sustainability—what they hear instead is, 'Do I lose something?'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is still some media commentary that unfairly targets people with disability in a way that is stigmatising and deeply unfair, and, of course, we live in the age of social media.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To meet some of the rumors head on, I say, (1) psychosocial disability is still included in the NDIS—full stop; (2) autism is still recognised as a disability—full stop; and (3) there are many good service providers in the Scheme, but at the same time we need to have an honest conversation about the Scheme. It cannot keep growing at the same rate that it is now. It can keep growing, but it just can't keep growing at 16 per cent annually, as it has in the past few years. The Disability Reform Ministerial Council is on record as saying:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without timely action to improve outcomes for people with disability, the NDIS is projected to grow to more than 1 million participants and cost up to $100 billion a year by 2032.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Costs continue to grow without fairness, rigor and control over this critical investment by the Australian people. We simply have to take steps to get it back on track, and that's what we're doing with this bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some operational changes to improve things can happen soon after the legislation if it's passed by the parliament and signed by the Governor-General. One is the definition of 'NDIS supports'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The legislation will, for the first time, link the definition of 'NDIS supports' to the rights of people with disability under the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. This is the first time that parts of the UN convention have been incorporated into NDIS laws. We moved amendments to ensure this did not pick only parts of the convention.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Another change relates to the provision of information-gathering for eligibility reassessment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is important to have the ability to request and receive information on whether participants meet the access criteria.. But let me be very clear—this will not result in people having to reprove their disability, but it will allow the CEO to determine if a participant is receiving the most appropriate support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The process will take into account difficulties of participants in accessing information, but participants or their nominee will need to communicate with the NDIA in a way that works best for the person on the Scheme. Not communicating is not an option.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Another change that will be able to happen pretty quickly is with plan management arrangements where there is a risk for that participant, including financial risk. I want to make clear that the Agency has responsibilities here too, and will be required to be consistent in its operations with the legislation and the rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These are just a few of the things that you may see happen early on. Because this is such an important Scheme for so many of our fellow Australians, I want to stress that those directly impacted by key decisions about the Scheme continue to play a central role in developing the detail and the implementation of the reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The biggest ideas from the Review, will take time, and we respect that process timeline There are two reasons for this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One is that these things have to be done in collaboration with people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the second is that the Review was very clear about the sequence of events, particularly about building the ecosystem of supports outside the NDIS. These changes will align with foundational supports in 2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIS was designed to help the people with the most complex support needs, but it was never designed to be the total Scheme for all Australians with disability. We now need to finish the job of building a more inclusive Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is why we, need to begin the work of foundational supports with our colleagues at the State and Territory level.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The States and Territories will play an important role here, consistent with the two National Cabinet agreements from last year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill also includes amendments to quality and safeguarding for the Scheme Watchdog. Providing greater flexibility for the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commissioner in exercising compliance powers and building on our comprehensive fraud reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes will boost the commission's ability to undertake compliance action.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I want to say again that, when we talk about improving the quality of outcomes for people with disability, some providers feel criticised. I put on the record that the vast majority of providers are good, decent, hardworking people. I wish to record my gratitude for the quality services they supply with care, compassion and professionalism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But we owe Australians the truth. Some providers are literally having a lend of the system. This Scheme was not designed to put a second-story verandah on a beach house of a provider seeking to make a quick buck. We cannot ignore this and the poor outcomes that delivers for participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With the measures we're talking about, this is not the end of the journey or the end of the story.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will consider more work in the future on quality and safety once we have the report of the NDIS Provider and Worker Registration Taskforce, led by trusted lawyer and disability advocate Natalie Wade.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What has been outlined above requires a national coordinated effort across all Governments and from each and every one of us as members of the community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms will not happen overnight—there will be a significant piece of work to design this pathway and we again ask for the support and the contributions of the disability sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This reform process has been in the making since the NDIS Review was commissioned more than 18 months ago. I want the best for Australians with disability, as I know this Parliament does across political divides.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I acknowledge there are questions and concerns from colleagues in the States and Territories, and we will genuinely work to resolve issues and allay fears. There is no arrogance or hubris with the introduction of this bill. This is, , the time to start this stage of our reform journey. It is in line with the National Cabinet agreement to introduce legislation in the first part of this year, and we're delivering on that promise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I say, I can only imagine that there will be some anxiety about any talk of changes within the disability sector, but the NDIS, as we all know, is not working the way it should and is not working consistently for many people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is our chance to make it right. This is our chance as a parliament to help finish the job. If you have a significant and permanent disability, you will be covered by the NDIS. If you have a developmental delay which can be supported by a means of support other than an individual package, you will get what you need. There is nothing to be afraid of during this transition about your future on the Scheme. We are simply seeking to put the best interests of the participants foremost in the decisions of the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is all about what people need. We are tremendously committed to improving the lives of people with disability and working with people with disability to do this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIS is a marvelous, world-leading Australian experiment. It is changing lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We cannot allow people to be excluded from the great life of Australian opportunity because of their impairment. We should be proud of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIS enables Australians regardless of their level of ability to lead the most fulfilling life possible.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I talk of a life of independence and dignity, a life of contribution to the community, a life of improved health and personal safety, a life of connection to others.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIS unlocks the great potential of Australians with disability and their families. It enables them to participate in the life of our country on their own terms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We should never change in fear, but we should never fear to change. The NDIS is not perfect, but it's not broken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We should never have a catastrophe mindset about the NDIS; we should just be truthful.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can, together, make it fairer, more transparent, more compassionate and more accountable to those it supports. It's still young—growing and learning.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But it is most certainly here to stay.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIS is, daily, changing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Australians with disability, and their families and the people who work with them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I want it to keep changing hundreds of thousands of lives, long after we've left this place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I hope that the Parliament can rise to the occasion to help secure the future of the Scheme—not just for Australians with disability but for all Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I will leave you as I began—with a quote from the <inline font-style="italic">Shut Out </inline>report. This was an anonymous submission:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Disability is characterised by desire for positive change and striving for emancipation and flourishing. It is seen every day amongst people living with disability. It is active hope. We desire a place within the community! This place is not just somewhere to lay down our heads, but a place which brings comfort and support with daily living, friendship, meaningful work, exciting recreation, spiritual renewal, relationships in which we can be ourselves freely with others. And out of this great things may flourish.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. We are two years into this lamentable government, and we finally have this bill in front of the Senate today. It's an issue that the now minister flagged as a priority when he was shadow minister, and, as with so much that this government has failed to do, we have seen nothing but hand-wringing from the government on the NDIS for the past two years. But it's good that, at the end of the long and winding road, we can be here to talk about this bill.</para>
<para>In essence, we've got a very peculiar situation here with this entire bill. Let's be frank: with the rhetoric from this government over the past two years, we know that the NDIS has changed lives for the better, with more than 660,000 Australians and their families in some way, shape or form relying on what the scheme is doing. The coalition is very proud of our extremely strong record in supporting the NDIS, essentially taking it from fewer than 50,000 participants to more than half a million in our time in government. We did the real hard work of taking what we inherited in its infancy, with many flaws, and turning it into a viable scheme for more than half a million Australians. We remain committed to fully funding the scheme to ensure that this demand driven scheme was able to grow where it grew.</para>
<para>We inherited a scheme that was underinvested in by the Labor Party. It was a scheme that was established in the chaos of the Rudd-Gillard government. In that time, however, the coalition did often make the point—and have made the point to this day—that the scheme has to be sustainable and that the scheme's very future for people with disabilities and their families will rely on the scheme remaining sustainable. We spoke about that in government, and we were absolutely criticised by the then opposition for talking about sustainability. In opposition, the now minister stood in the way, day after day, of coalition attempts to put the scheme on a sustainable footing. The now minister accused us in the coalition of 'pearl-clutching kabuki theatre', claiming the NDIS was tracking just as predicted and that the coalition was hyping fictional cost blowouts. While he was shadow minister, he also said, 'You can't move around the corridors of parliament in Canberra without tripping over a coalition minister whispering, "The scheme is unsustainable." I'm here to tell you today that that's a lie.' That's another quote from the minister.</para>
<para>The minister spent his time in opposition blocking every single attempt of the former coalition government to do some of the work that is now contained in this bill. He went to the election and said: 'None of that's necessary. The scheme is on track. It's tracking as predicted. There are no cost blowouts and there are no sustainability issues. It's just those terrible Liberals talking about it.' Then, the minute he got elected, the message changed overnight. All of a sudden, this scheme, that was tracking just as predicted, according to this minister, was on an unsustainable footing and needed to be reined in. Now we find ourselves here today.</para>
<para>Further, in the lead-up to the election, the minister tried to argue that the former coalition government made cuts to the NDIS. We know that you can't trust Labor when they talk about cuts, even though the coalition rescued the scheme by investing, at that time, $157.8 billion to support more than 500,000 Australians with a disability. So that's the great hypocrisy of it all.</para>
<para>I think every advocate and person in the disability sector knows that what shadow minister Shorten said before the election was entirely the opposite of what Minister Shorten has said since he's been in government. And now we find this bill—the culmination of his arguments that the scheme is not on a sustainable footing. You'd think in two years a minister who felt as though the scheme wasn't on a sustainable footing, that the scheme needed to be reined in and costs reduced, as he's argued consistently. Since the election, the minister has been very consistent. He's had one thing to say about the NDIS, which is that it has to be reined in: spending's got to be reduced, and ultimately the only way to make it sustainable is to reduce the number of people who get access to the scheme and reduce the amount that people on the scheme are entitled to. He has been very consistent about that. But when you're the minister you actually have to do things. You actually have to make changes. You just can't diagnose problems forever. He has failed to make the transition from opposition to government, where, once you get into government, your job is to not just diagnose problems but actually fix them.</para>
<para>The minister talks a lot about abuse of the scheme. Well, abuse of the NDIS has got worse on his watch. Abuse by people with the ill intention of defrauding the scheme has gone into overdrive since this minister has been in the big chair. It's not something he spoke that much about before the election but it's gone into overdrive. We've learned through a number of Administrative Appeals Tribunal cases what some claimants have been arguing for under this minister's framework. There are people who go to the AAT and claim that, under the NDIS, taxpayers should fund some of the following: swimming pools, sex workers and round-the-world trips. And it's all getting worse on this government's watch.</para>
<para>In fact, through Senate estimates and a number of different forums, we've asked the minister to rule out the use of prostitutes under the NDIS. Taxpayers unequivocally support the NDIS and are willing to support the tens of billions of dollars—$40 billion—that it costs to run the NDIS, provided that the money is used wisely.</para>
<para>We now see a scheme that's out of control. We've seen wait times double since this government came to power. The scheme and the agency is being run into the ground by this government, and they've been there for only two years. Boy, what could we have done in the past two years? It has taken them two years to get this bill before the Senate today, and may I say that there is a long way for this bill to go—because the litany of concerns with this bill are very long. In some respects it looks like a rushed bill, but how on earth could a bill be rushed when you've had two years to do something? This was supposed to be a high priority of this government. We're two years in.</para>
<para>he Senate today and may I say that there is a long for this bill to go, because the litany of concerns with this bill are very long. In some respects it looks like a rushed bill. How on earth could have Bilby rushed when you've had two years to do something? This was supposed to be a high priority of this government. We're two years in.</para>
<para>Here are some concerns raised by stakeholders—not all of them, because that would take up all day. But it's not clear from the bill what a participant can do if they don't agree with an outcome of a needs assessment. This particular stakeholder said: 'The NDIA decisions are notorious for being inconsistent and variable. There doesn't appear to be an avenue for review.' The second concern raised by stakeholders is: 'The new definition says the NDIS will only fund eight categories of supports. These are based on selected elements out of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities. However, by leaving out other elements of that convention, the bill excludes some supports from NDIS funding. For example, the convention recognises the right to live where a person chooses and with who they choose, as well as rights to work in employment. However, this bill does not appear to include support that would specifically facilitate participants' economic participation.'</para>
<para>The review recommendations contained a range of numerous contentions. The drafting of the bill lacked opportunities for consultation. A stakeholder said, 'Our position and that of those we represent is that, without examination and scrutiny of the full and complete proposed changes to the bill, it would deliver a result in the future that looks akin to Frankenstein's monster.' Participants, their families and providers would be scrabbling for fair and equitable access to the scheme and supports they need. Another stakeholder said: 'What is and is not an NDIS support must not be so strict as to not allow a participant to explain why it's reasonable and necessary for a request for support to be funded.' The APTOS will be incorporated as an interim measure to determine what is and is not an NDIS support, yet it has been widely recognised that APTOS has failed. There are also no provisions about providers of last resort.</para>
<para>Just to stay on the point of the stakeholders being upset with regard to the lack of transparency and co-design and the approach to the development of this bill, remember that the Prime Minister came to office saying: 'We are going to be an open, transparent and accountable government. We are going to let the light shine in.' There has been a worrying trend with this government—and it seems almost uniform—in its consultations of the use of non-disclosure agreements. If they're genuinely consulting with the sector, but the sector can only find out or be consulted on the basis that it agrees—presumably by fear of prosecution by the government not to tell anybody about it—how on earth will that be genuine consultation? NDAs—that is, non-disclosure agreements—have not been a feature of genuine consultation with the federal government, but they're an Albanese government feature. It will be written that NDAs became a feature of government consultation under a Labor government, and that is not genuine co-design. They can call it co-design, but, if they're hand-picking and selecting who they supposedly consult with and those people are unable to share information with counterparts, peers or even their own members if they're a representative organisation, that's not co-design and that's not consultation. That is a very worrying feature of this government. Let's be frank: you only get people to sign NDAs when you are trying to hide something. NDAs are not there if you're proud of the product that you are consulting on. NDAs are there if you're concerned or if you want to hide something from the Australia public.</para>
<para>We've now had the minister concede that he was wrong before the election. Before the election, when he said that the NDIS was tracking just as predicted and that the coalition was hyping fictional cost blowouts, either he was genuinely ignorant of the truth, which is possible, or he deliberately deceived the entire disability sector, community and NDIS participants when he made those statements, knowing they were incorrect. In the end, that is up to Australians to judge.</para>
<para>This coalition opposition is not going to use the more than 600,000 Australians with a disability and their families as some kind of political football or some kind of opportunity to embarrass the government. They are Australians who deserve honesty. They are Australians who are realistic and understand the strengths and weaknesses of the scheme. They are the best people to turn to when you need answers as to what to do next, which is why it is so disappointing that the minister has ignored these people, that he has not consulted with them and that he has not engaged with them. It's as if this government and the minister have gone into the bunker and decided: 'We're going to reverse our position from before the election. We're going to do the opposite of what we said before the election. So let's put the flak jackets on, get into the bunker and just do this—not consult intelligently, fairly, openly and transparently with the people who these changes will most significantly impact.' Having done so, there is now huge anxiety across the community, and I think that's a fundamental error that this minister has made. The suspicion and concern now felt by many participants and their families are a direct response not just to the mixed messages from saying one thing before an election and another thing afterward but also to the thought processes of the minister and the government. Of course, an example of this that's raised commonly is children with ASD or developmental delay. We know that, since the state governments have vacated the field, parents of those children have nowhere to go but the NDIS, yet the uncertainty and lack of supports after this bill are causing huge levels of anxiety.</para>
<para>That said, the coalition will support sensible measures in this bill—measures that the coalition actually sought to implement but that Labor actively campaigned against. At the appropriate stage, the coalition will move amendments that will improve the scheme, preserve the scheme's integrity and ensure the sustainability of the scheme to allow it to continue, improving the lives of some of the most vulnerable in our community.</para>
<para>However, insufficient time has been provided for proper consultation on the bill with the sector and the community, who have expressed widespread misgivings about the current legislation. The opportunity for thorough consultation is important in bringing the NDIS back onto a sustainable footing in a manner that does not disadvantage or negatively impact on participants most in need, and it is concerning that the Community Affairs Legislation Committee was not given the opportunity. So, as I finish up, I move the second reading amendment circulated in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "and the bill be referred to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for further inquiry and report by 5 August 2024".</para></quote>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When I was about 10 years old, I started using a manual wheelchair for the first time. The state run disability service system in Western Australia at that time gave you the option to choose between three wheelchairs. I tried them out and trialled them. None of them fit properly. All of them hurt. None of them had the right type of cushion, and none of them had side guards, simple bits of plastic, so that the dog poo, mud or rainwater that you might run through wouldn't get on your clothes or your skin. Because none of those chairs worked, because they lacked a cushion and those basic pieces of plastic, I and my family had to fight and fight and fight to get a wheelchair that actually worked, because the wheelchair that worked and the cushion and guards I needed weren't on the government approved list for wheelchairs in WA.</para>
<para>Eventually we got them. We got them because of a great team of allied health professionals and because of a mum who had spent 20 years as a social worker in the United Kingdom and had the skill to push back on the system. But God it was hard, and it was so stressful and so degrading to sit in the office of the person who could approve these changes and have to justify why I needed the wheelchair that worked for me. It made me feel terrible. At one point during the conversation, that government employee said to me, 'Well, Jordon, if we give you a wheelchair that costs that much money, we won't have enough money to put safety belts on buses for kids who go to special schools.' When I asked, 'Please can I have the pieces of plastic so that the dog poo doesn't get on my clothes and go into my skin and give me a pressure sore,' the response was, 'Well, the rules here say all we're meant to do is fund you for a wheelchair in your home.</para>
<para>This was the reality of the state based systems before the NDIS. You had to fight against a government approved list, a list of yes or no. You had to burn yourself into the ground to get anything, and there were only a couple of government approved providers that you could choose from. It was a terrible, disconnected system that led people to be abused and that constrained us, harmed us and made life more difficult for us and for our families. So we campaigned together—disabled people, our families, our allies, our organisations and the people that work with us—for a better way, for a nationally consistent system of supports that would enable you to get funding for the services that you need, for the equipment that you need, for the therapies that you need and for the support workers that you need to live a life with dignity, independence, purpose and aspiration. We campaigned for a system that would provide you with individual supports based on your specific needs and empower you to have agency over how they were used, empower you to be able to decide who came into your home and who gave you a wash, enable you to live independently on your own if that's what you chose to do and enable you to build a network of professionals around you that were paid properly for their time so that they could provide you with their expertise. We wanted a scheme that would enable disabled people to live, our families to live and the barriers in our society and community to be brought down.</para>
<para>We campaigned for our NDIS, and a decade ago we won it. Together, we spent that next decade fighting to protect it. We knew all too well that the establishment of the NDIS did not mean that the barriers would vanish. It meant that we had established a foundation stone upon which to build a life for ourselves and hope for our communities and our families and that we were now charged, as disabled people, with its dogged and determined defence. As disabled people, we know that government, if left to its own devices, makes choices about us without us. In every space, from whether there is an accessible entrance way to a public building to whether we are forced to live together in institutions or whether we get to live or exist at all, government, if left alone, makes the choice about us without us, with catastrophic consequences. So we defended it again and again and again. During all of those years of Liberal government, we defended it. The Labor government, at the last election, pledged itself to that cause, to the defence of our NDIS. They promised that, if they were elected, they would stop the cuts and they would end the awful culture that had taken root within the agency, which treated disabled people and their family members as though we were trying to get something we weren't really entitled to, as though we were criminals trying to get access to things we knew we shouldn't have.</para>
<para>They promised, more than anything else, to make any change about our scheme in deep co-design with disabled people, acknowledging that co-design requires consent of the parties to the process of co-design. Can you imagine the reaction of the Australian disability community and our families, allies and organisations when, after two years of giving our time and our emotional labour and extending our trust to review after review, to the disability royal commission and to endless numbers of taskforces, we were landed in March of this year with a bill that goes so far beyond anything that we had asked for and so far beyond anything the evidence supported as to almost make a dark joke out of the commitment to co-design and out of every sentence that had, to that moment, dropped from the mouth of the minister?</para>
<para>Let me make very clear: this bill removes choice and control from the NDIS. This bill removes the ability to have individual-specific supports funded in our plan and replaces that ability, replaces those principles, with a government mandated list of 'yes' and 'no', a government mandated list of supports created by—wait for it—ministers of the Crown, of the state and federal governments. There is not a disabled person in sight among any of them. Under this bill they get to choose, behind closed doors, what they believe we as disabled people should be able to receive, when none of them understand what it means to be a disabled person, when none of them have demonstrated in their careers an actual understanding of what is needed from government to make the community more accessible and inclusive.</para>
<para>Yet they will decide. The federal government, under this bill, is granted the ability to divide disabled people into classes, into groups. How can we, in 2024, be asked to consider a bill that gives a government the power to divide 20 per cent of the population into a class? This bill gives the government the ability to force upon us mandatory government assessments, regardless of how many we have already endured, regardless of how much trauma we may be subjected to and regardless of whether, as a First Nations person, you know damn well that those tools—designed by white people, designed by academics in some far-off place—will not represent your needs, your support, your life or your culture.</para>
<para>These processes become mandatory. Under this bill, this assessment is exempt from review, and the result of that assessment is then translated into a capped budget. You might ask, how is it translated? Well, by a method—that's all the bill says. What will be in that method? How will it translate a number of complex needs assessments and personal contexts into a budget? We have no idea. But the federal government says: 'Trust us that we'll get it right. Trust us that we'll give you what you need. Give us all the power now to decide what you may be funded for, how you may be funded for it, who provides it and when it is provided, and we will do the rest. And we promise we'll do it with you, even though the way in which we made this bill was the literal definition of designing a piece of legislation behind closed doors. Trust us that we will consult. Trust us that we will make the right decisions for you.'</para>
<para>Well, no. The disability community do not trust this government. The disability community have been profoundly betrayed by this government. The disability community do not accept this bill. The disability community reject this bill. And we do not accept that it is appropriate to ram a piece of legislation that affects the lives of 660,000 Australian citizens and their families, their friends and their organisations through this parliament with 2½ days of hearing, when the amendments offered by the government to this point are little more than lipstick on a pig—an insult to the intelligence of any disabled person, any lawyer, any advocate who reads them. We do not accept this.</para>
<para>I asked you earlier to imagine what it was like to live as we lived before the NDIS. I asked you to imagine how hard you would fight for something better. I now ask you to imagine how hard you would fight to defend the scheme—the supports and the services—that you need to live a good life or that your child needs to live a good life. I ask you to imagine it. If you fail, don't worry, because we are about to show you just how hard we fight, just how much we are willing to give and just how many of us vote.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm proud to have served in the government that established the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The NDIS will go down in history as one of the many great Labor reforms that have shaped Australia. It was Labor that built Medicare, it was Labor that built our social security system and it was Labor that introduced compulsory superannuation. It was Labor that undertook the important economic reforms of the 1980s that contributed so much to Australia's continued prosperity, and it was Labor that built the national broadband network.</para>
<para>Like all these great reforms, the NDIS has had a transformative impact. Like most Australians, I know some NDIS participants personally—in fact, some are family members—and I can see that the NDIS has made a positive and life-changing difference for them. To highlight the difference the NDIS has made for participants, it's worth reflecting on the 2011 Productivity Commission report, <inline font-style="italic">D</inline><inline font-style="italic">isability care and support</inline>. That 2011 report found:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The current disability support system is underfunded, unfair, fragmented, and inefficient, and gives people with a disability little choice and no certainty …</para></quote>
<para>The Productivity Commission report also referred to the '"lottery" of access to services' for people with disability, based on their location or the timing or origin of their disability. At the time the scheme was established, I remember speaking in this place about how people in towns situated on state borders would receive different levels of support based on which side of the street they lived on and how a person with disability waiting for a piece of essential equipment would, if they moved states, have to be shunted to the back of the queue.</para>
<para>Another important highlight of the Productivity Commission report was the lack of control people with disability had over their services and the lack of choice of service providers. Some of the issues raised by people with disability and their families and carers engaging with the Productivity Commission inquiry included long waiting times for equipment or therapists, the requirement to complete long-winded and unnecessary paperwork—sometimes providing the same information multiple times—and the lack of support for adults wanting to move out of home and gain independence. Parents worried about whether their adult children with disability would get the support they needed when the parents died or were no longer able to care for them. People also spoke about having to navigate a maze of supports and how some people with disability got lost in the maze, particularly if they didn't have friends, family, carers or support organisations to advocate for them.</para>
<para>The NDIS, now that it is in place, is not only dramatically improving the lives of people with disability but is also paying dividends in other ways. Better support for people with disability means better physical and mental health outcomes, which obviously reduces the burden on our health system. The NDIS is also improving the ability of people with disability to engage in work, which helps boost productivity and economic growth, as does taking some of the pressure off informal carers such as family members. In this way, the NDIS helps all Australians, not just those with disability.</para>
<para>While the NDIS has been a fantastic life-changing reform for many people with disability, we know that not everyone's NDIS experience has been ideal and that there is always room for improvement. Just like all the other great nation-building Labor reforms I mentioned, the NDIS needs to be adapted and improved over time. We also need to make sure, in the interests of all NDIS participants, their families and their carers, that it remains sustainable. The NDIS is projected to grow to more than one million participants and cost up to $1 billion a year by 2032. Making sure we get the best outcomes for people with disability is why we commissioned the independent review of the NDIS last year.</para>
<para>Over a period of 12 months, the review engaged with around 10,000 people from across Australia. The review's engagement was extensive and wide-ranging. Submissions were received in writing, verbally, by phone, by video, by Auslan, by artwork and even by poetry. People were invited to workshops and meetings to share their experiences and ideas. The review partnered with disability representatives and service organisations to engage, in depth, on topics of interest. Review panel members attended events and forums held by the disability community and providers, and the review also drew on the evidence from previous reviews. The review panel travelled to every state and territory and met with thousands of people, including in remote and regional areas. I commend the review panel, including co-chairs Bruce Bonyhady AM and Lisa Paul AO, PSM for their work on the review and their well-considered and comprehensive report.</para>
<para>After considering all the evidence provided, the review's report delivered 26 recommendations, with 139 action items. The National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill implements several priority recommendations of the independent review. The changes made by this bill are broadly categorised under three thematic groups: access, budget-setting, and quality and safeguarding. The bill will provide clarity on who can access the NDIS. It will require the National Disability Insurance Agency to provide participants with a clear statement of the basis on which they entered the NDIS by meeting either the disability requirements, the early intervention requirements, or both. The bill will also clarify and expand the NDIS rules relating to access provisions, including the methods or criteria to be applied when making decisions about the disability and early intervention criteria, and the matters which must or must not be taken into account. The bill will enable better early intervention pathways for people living with psychosocial disability and for children younger than nine years old with developmental delay and disability.</para>
<para>The bill will also improve how NDIS participant budgets are set, making them more flexible and providing clearer information on how they can be spent. It will create a new reasonable and necessary budget framework for the preparation of NDIS participants' plans. Participants will receive funding based on whether they access the scheme on the basis of impairments that meet the disability requirements, the early intervention requirements, or both. A new definition of NDIS supports will provide a clear definition for all participants of the authorised supports that will be funded by the NDIS and those that will not. The bill links the definition of NDIS supports to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and this is the first time parts of the convention have been incorporated into legislation—the first time.</para>
<para>The bill also strengthens quality and safeguards by giving the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commissioner greater flexibility to exercise compliance powers. This is not targeted at the majority of NDIS providers, who are good, honest people, trying to professionally and compassionately support people with disability, but we do have to recognise that there are a few providers who are rorting the scheme, and the government needs the tools to crack on those rorts.</para>
<para>As the minister outlined in his second reading speech on the bill, the government is seeking to achieve four main goals when it comes to reform of the NDIS: that the NDIS provide a better experience for participants; that the scheme be restored to its original intent—to support people with significant and permanent disability; that the scheme be equitable; and that the scheme be sustainable. I do appreciate that there is some anxiety in the community about what sustainability of the scheme means for participants. It's important to understand that under this government the NDIS will continue to grow. Participants will still get a plan based on their support needs, and 'reasonable and necessary' will continue to be the basis upon which support needs are met through the scheme. The bill creates an enabling architecture for the new rules that will give effect to those reforms, which will be developed with the states and territories. The new rules will be co-designed with the disability community, continuing to put the voices of people with disability at the heart of these reforms. This bill is also about setting a pathway towards a unified system of support for people with disability.</para>
<para>The review talked about the NDIS being an oasis in the desert of disability support, and this is clearly not what it is intended to be. To coin another analogy, as the minister has said on a number of occasions, he does not want the NDIS to be the only lifeboat in the ocean. There are approximately 660,000 NDIS participants, but there are estimated to be over four million people with disability in Australia. These people also need to be supported, but it is clearly not sustainable to have every one of them participate in the NDIS. The NDIS must exist alongside accessible and inclusive mainstream and foundational supports. I appreciate the important role that the information linkages and capacity-building grants have had in providing many of these supports.</para>
<para>Recently the government announced $90 million for the recently finalised individual capacity-building competitive grant round and $50 million to offer extensions of up to 12 months for existing grants in the national information program, economic and community participation, mainstream capacity building, economic participation, and building employer confidence and inclusion in disability program streams of the ILC program. I also appreciate the $11.6 million over two years that Minister Shorten and Minister Rishworth announced earlier this year to develop and implement the foundational supports strategy. The review proposed that foundational supports comprise both general supports and targeted supports. General supports could include, for example, community care, assistance with shopping, property maintenance, peer and family supports and early intervention support. Targeted supports should include a focus on supports for specific groups, such as: children, young people and adolescents; people with persistent mental illness; and people with hearing loss. These could include early support services, independence and transition supports, individual capacity building, and aids and equipment.</para>
<para>Foundational supports are an important part of the disability support ecosystem, not just because they provide people with disability the support they need outside the NDIS but also because they support early intervention. They also help to put downward pressure on the cost of the NDIS. If the NDIS is the oasis in the desert, so to speak, then it stands to reason that everyone in the desert will try to get to the oasis. But if some people eligible for the NDIS feel they are receiving sufficient support from mainstream and foundational supports, they will not have to rely on the NDIS. Having said that, the NDIS will be there for them if they need it.</para>
<para>We could think of these supports in a similar way to how we think about the primary healthcare system in hospitals. The hospitals are there for people who need that level of care, but they're usually not the first port of call. The more you invest in primary care services such as GPs, the less people will have to rely on hospitals. A great example of a foundational support is the national assistance card, administered nationally by the Brain Injury Association of Tasmania. I've spoken about the national assistance card in this place previously. It's a tailored card for people with disability to present while out in the community to explain how their disability affects them and what kind of assistance they may need. It's particularly helpful for people who have communication difficulties, are in distress or want to avoid continually having to explain their disability. It is available nationally for people with brain injury and, through a partnership with Autism Tasmania, is being trialled in Tasmania for people with autism.</para>
<para>I've spent some time advocating for BIAT and the national assistance card in particular, and I'm really pleased that this project has been granted an extension of funding which will also allow it to be made available for people with autism nationally. This is excellent news, considering that many people with autism across Australia have contacted BIAT expressing interest in having a national assistance card, even though they are not eligible. This is a great example of the kind of service that is forming a useful component of our foundational support systems and that can hopefully one day have a permanent place in it. It's BIAT's ultimate aim and my hope that this card will eventually become available to people with any psychosocial disability throughout Australia. For example, in addition to brain injury and autism, the card could be very helpful to people with depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, PTSD, anorexia, ADHD, schizophrenia or even dementia.</para>
<para>Labor is committed to getting the settings right to develop a system of disability care and support that works for all people with disability and their family and carers. This includes having a sustainable NDIS that meets the needs of participants and puts people at the centre, complemented by a strong system of foundational supports. Unfortunately, the previous government had very limited interest in the NDIS. They bowed to public pressure to keep it, but their only attempt at any kind of reform was their misguided and disastrous independent assessments policy. That was their only attempt at reform. The bill that is currently before the Senate is a key step in the process of getting the NDIS back on track after a wasted decade under the coalition, and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, I think, will be remembered as a day of shame for those opposite. I'd like to start off by noting that the larger and more audacious the fraud the harder those who perpetrate it will fall. Eventually those opposite, particularly Minister Shorten and those who supported the charade of the inquiry into this bill, will have to front the royal commission that I think will eventually, one day, come about because of the way this government has perpetuated this fraud. As we heard Senator Steele-John say so passionately and eloquently today, this is causing immense pain and suffering and anxiety for over 650,000 of Australia's most vulnerable Australians with disability and the many hundreds of thousands of their loved ones—their parents, their siblings and everybody else who cares about them. The shame of it is that it never had to be this way.</para>
<para>It's very important to go back to find out how we got to the position we are in today. Let's forget the monumental effort of spin by those opposite and the spinmeister himself, Bill Shorten, who has spent three years spinning the politics of this to his own advantage, instead of working with those across this chamber and in the other place to redesign the scheme to fix the obvious flaws, which were emerging four to five years ago now and which we kept calling out. As minister, I was very proud, despite the utter criticism and invective that I got from Bill Shorten, day after day, week after week, saying how stupid I was—that I obviously couldn't read the book, that there was no problem here.</para>
<para>Clearly there are problems that were baked into the scheme when the legislation was introduced in 2013. This would have been more of a problem had we not had the clear realisation, as these problems started to emerge in the scheme as it started to grow, that they were not just growing pains but were baked into the scheme, through the legislation and the intergovernmental agreements, as a federated scheme. As the scheme grew and as the budget started to blow out well beyond what the Productivity Commission and governments of the day had imagined, we went to those opposite, and to the sector, and said, 'We need to deal with these structural flaws.' Like with any other demand driven scheme, like the MBS or the PBS, just because they're demand driven doesn't mean they don't have controls on them. Of course they do. Of course they have controls in terms of the two drivers of cost: the number of people who have access to the scheme and the average cost—what they can get from the scheme. But neither of those drivers is manageable by the minister and the federal government, who are responsible for delivering the scheme.</para>
<para>It was very clear what was required, and what did Bill Shorten do, as the then opposition spokesperson? He ridiculed. He said there was no problem. He cruelly promised everybody on the NDIS and their families: 'Don't worry; we will have no cuts. We won't cut any of your plans. Don't vote for that mob; we will look after you.' He perpetuated the fraud and the fiction that this was a scheme that did not need reform. How wrong he was! And he must have known that, because budget after budget and quarterly report after quarterly report showed that this was a scheme that was spiralling out of control. In fact, today it is the third-largest Commonwealth expenditure item, and it's on track to become the second and, if not managed and fixed, it will be the most expensive, costing, by 2032, over $100 billion annually. That is clearly not sustainable, and the scheme will fail if we don't come together to fix it.</para>
<para>So let's have a look at the genesis of the legislation. I don't think I could have said it any better. What Minister Shorten has managed to do is completely unite the disability sector, families and participants against this, because they are not stupid, Minister Shorten. They understand the fraud you have perpetrated on them, and they are worried. Twelve of the largest disability representative organisations have said this about the bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The recommendations in the report of the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee into the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) Amendment Bill 2024 are profoundly disappointing and disrespectful … Our organisations are deeply disappointed that the Senate Committee—</para></quote>
<para>not even the government but the committee of this place—</para>
<quote><para class="block">did not listen to the evidence and expertise of people with disability, our families, supporters and organisations, who made extensive, and detailed submissions about the flaws in the proposed legislation.</para></quote>
<para>I participated in this inquiry, and the government gave less than a month, with two days of hearings--including one hour with the NDIA, if my memory is correct—to do justice to all of these submissions. We said, 'Give us another month so we can have more hearings into this legislation, hear the voices of the community and work with you, government, on this dog of a piece of legislation, which will make the situation worse, so we can improve it.' The marching instructions from Minister Shorten that there be no extension to the inquiry were a complete disgrace.</para>
<para>This is what the sector has also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We have engaged with the Committee over three hearings and provided substantial evidence and lived experience.</para></quote>
<para>Anybody who sat through and listened to this evidence could not have failed to be moved, and how those opposite, who sat through, heard and read this evidence, still forced this committee report through and are now supporting the introduction of this legislation is beyond comprehension. It is unfathomable. This is what the sector also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">People with disability feel a loss of trust in the Parliamentary process that promises to listen to us, as we contemplate significant reform to the services and supports provided through the scheme.</para></quote>
<para>That process shames each and every one of us in this Senate chamber, and I hope that, when that report comes to this chamber, we will throw out not only this bad legislation but that report, which was a complete abomination and an insult to every single person in this chamber.</para>
<para>After saying that there was no problem with this scheme, what did Minister Shorten do? He came into government. We'd already had 30 reviews into various aspects of the NDIS. We knew the problems three or four years ago. We knew where the solutions lay: tough discussions three years ago with the states and territories, and changing the legislation so that the scheme could be managed effectively. But no. They didn't have the guts to go through that process. Instead, the minister got his mates and did another review, an 18-month review. There were some reasonable things in the review, but none of them were new. They went out, and the government have been trumpeting how many people they have been engaging with and listening to. That review reported in December, with 26 recommendations and 139 specific supporting actions to implement. Some of them I agree with and some of them I don't, but there were a lot of reasonable suggestions in there and a number of things that actually tackled the structural problems with the intergovernmental agreements and also the legislation.</para>
<para>That report was provided in December, and before that, a draft of the report was provided to the government, but we still do not have an Albanese government report. We have no government report in relation to their position on this report, but what we do have is legislation that purports to implement the review. But it doesn't. It does not implement anything of substance in the review. There are three parts—maybe 3½, if you're generous—of the 26 major recommendations that are touched on in this legislation, but it claims that it's going to be entirely responsible for the $60 billion of cuts that this government has made to the scheme over the next 10 years—between $14½ billion and $15 billion over the next four years alone, over the forward estimates.</para>
<para>The government has not been able to say where and how this legislation is going to realise those savings. They haven't released any of the modelling or any of the assumptions that underpin the modelling—not one. When we go into Finance estimates, Treasury estimates or community affairs estimates with DSS and with the NDIA, all of them say, 'Yes, we've got these numbers, from the poor NDIA actuary.' And I said to him that I feel he is the unluckiest man in this country because everybody is looking to his planning and his heroic assumptions that underpin the $60 billion worth of savings. This bill is all about those savings, and they don't have the courage to release them. I suspect they don't because it completely reverse engineers.</para>
<para>What has been pretty clear is that the government have said, 'We're going to make these cuts.' They cobbled together this legislation that actually has almost nothing to do with the review, which I suspect is why we haven't seen the government response to the review, but they've made $60 billion worth of cuts on the assumption that they can get what they said was a 14 per cent year-on-year increase. In fact, over the last 12 months under Bill Shorten, year to year, the third-quarter results—which are the last ones we've got—show there is a 21 per cent increase. So they are making $60 billion worth of cuts, they say, under the sustainability framework, which is more elusive than the scarlet pimpernel. No matter where we look and no matter how we try, we cannot find anything to tell us what the sustainability framework is or what assumptions and modelling underpin it.</para>
<para>So not only are the government going to drop the current rate from a 21 per cent year-on-year increase down to 14 per cent, they're going to get it down to eight per cent. And the only way they could get agreement with that, tentatively, from states and territories was by saying, 'We'll take the current four per cent cap up to eight per cent, so you'll have to pay, year on year, an increase of eight per cent, after the next two years, and then we'll pay the rest.' But what they haven't made clear is that they've also promised the states and territories that there'll be a 'no worse off' clause. How is that going to work? Who is going to pay for the increase? Clearly, the Commonwealth taxpayer will. So part of the big fraud that lies behind this is that this legislation is designed in the most chaotic way that will cause, and is already causing, great angst and concern amongst the most vulnerable in our community, but the savings that the government are going to have to get and the supplementation from the budget they're going to have to keep getting is well beyond the $60 billion they've already ripped out of the scheme.</para>
<para>In conclusion, Bill Shorten could have actually spent less time and less money on spin. I would like to remind those in this place that the government and Bill Shorten, through the NDIA or the review—I'm not quite sure—has spent $400,000 on research and communications on four thick reports to tell them how to spin the legislation. And guess what? It is all about to how to sustain a values based conversation about fixing fraud in order to stop the exploitation of Australians. They don't talk about the cuts in this communications advice. So guess what? Bill Shorten, in his speeches, which no doubt have been written by his new speechwriter, who is getting paid over $600,000 for two years of work despite Mr Shorten having 400 communications staff across his agency and department, says, 'We are chasing down the rorts while we are building a better NDIS.' Have a look at Minister Shorten's speeches in the parliament, including his second reading speech. Everything he has said publicly is all taken straight from this RedBridge communications. It is all about the spin and not about the policy. Shame on you. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise today to speak on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. Senators, as you know, the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, which I chair, completed our inquiry into this bill in recent weeks. On behalf of the committee, I want to thank everyone who participated in our processes, particularly the witnesses.</para>
<para>I will just put some facts on the record about that process. We received over 200 submissions to our inquiry. We heard from nearly 50 witnesses. We held two lived experience panels. We heard from the agencies on two separate occasions over two different hearings. We held hearings across three days. Those hearings were supported by government senators on that committee. I want to thank everyone who participated in those processes and everyone who contributed to our work.</para>
<para>Our report made four recommendations to this place to improve the bill before us. It did this on the back of a number of government amendments which were also moved in the House of Representatives in response to concerns raised by stakeholders. There were significant concerns raised by stakeholders and those amendments sought to address many of those. As chair and with the support of other committee members, I made a number of other recommendations to strengthen the bill which go to issues like consultation and the rules. I think they are important recommendations and reflect the evidence we heard. They are a genuine attempt to try to address some of those concerns we heard, in addition to the government amendments.</para>
<para>I think this is a really important bill, and I think it's really important that we pass it. It is one step in a broader series of reforms that we need to make to the NDIS, that need to be made to secure the long-term sustainability of the NDIS and to ensure that every dollar of NDIS funding goes to those in our community who most need it. It is not the whole process of reform required; it is one part of it. It facilitates further reforms which came out of the broader review.</para>
<para>The NDIS is a proud Labor legacy. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of everything it has done to support over half a million adults and children with disability today. I'm proud that for a long time it has enjoyed bipartisan support. It is something we as Australians believe in, it's something we in this chamber have believed in and it has been a godsend for so many Australians living with disability and for their families, friends and carers, including family members of mine who are on the NDIS. It has been absolutely life-changing and a godsend for my family members who are participants in it.</para>
<para>But we know it could be doing more. It is not perfect. We know it could be operating far more efficiently. We need the NDIS to remain sustainable so it can continue to support future generations of Australians. We need it to remain sustainable so it can continue to maintain the support for Australians. We as a government are committed to improving the experience for all Australians with disability who interact with the NDIS, as well as their families and carers.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister, alongside premiers and chief ministers, announced last December that initial legislation would be introduced in the first half of 2024 to ensure the NDIS is best supporting the people it is intended to support. This included addressing several priority recommendations made by the independent review of the NDIS which was undertaken in 2023. The NDIS review was designed to put people with disability back at the centre of the NDIS, restore trust and pride in the scheme and ensure its sustainability for future generations. The review conducted deep engagement with the disability community over a 12-month period, engaging with around 10,000 people from across Australia. Its resulting recommendations included a range of legislative reforms to return the scheme to its original intent and improve the experience of participants. We have heard those recommendations. This bill is a significant step to allow governments and the disability community to start improving the scheme to get the NDIS back on track.</para>
<para>This bill addresses priority recommendations from this review, provides clarity on who can access the NDIS, enables better early intervention pathways for people living with psychosocial disability and children younger than nine years old with developmental delay and disability, and improves how the NDIS participant budgets are set, making them more flexible and providing clearer information on how they can be spent. Further, it strengthens compliance powers for the NDIS commission while governments consider the findings of the disability royal commission. This bill comes off the back of the NDIS review led by two prominent Australians, Professor Bruce Bonyhady AM, who we heard from in our inquiry, and Ms Lisa Paul AO PSM. The review met people where they were—virtually, face to face, online or over the phone—and we have heard that this review represented some of the best consultations the sector had ever seen. The bill implements recommendation 3 of the NDIS review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway for NDIS participants. It makes it clearer what supports the NDIS provides to participants and clarifies how participants will come onto the NDIS with a needs assessment process.</para>
<para>At our committee inquiry we heard from witnesses who said they value the NDIS, but we also heard from witnesses who said they know it needs reform. This bill provides a framework for those changes. In addition to implementing recommendation 3 of the NDIS review, it also gives effect to interconnected elements in recommendations 5, 6 and 7 and partially implements recommendation 17. Recommendation 5 is to provide better support for people with disability to make decisions about their lives. To implement this, the bill will create new framework plans for participants, which will include a reasonable and necessary budget that participants can spend on NDIS supports without having to apply to the NDIA again and again for reassessments when their support needs change. This bill makes sure flexible funding is available to participants who need NDIS supports which aren't stated supports. This change allows greater flexibility in how participants can spend their budget, and, importantly, flexible funding is included in the plan as the default.</para>
<para>Recommendation 6 is to create a continuum of support for children under the age of nine and their families. This bill sets up a new early intervention pathway for children who enter the scheme. This will provide targeted early intervention support for children, which may mean that they will not need to be on the NDIS for their whole lives. Recommendation 7 is to introduce a new approach to NDIS supports for psychosocial disability focused on personal recovery and developmental health reforms to better support people with severe mental illnesses. The bill makes it clearer how to measure the reduced functional capacity of someone with psychosocial disability and how early intervention support can help someone with psychosocial needs. The bill is abundantly clear that it will not remove anyone with psychosocial disability from the NDIS and it will not disproportionately affect the mental health community.</para>
<para>Recommendation 17 is to develop and deliver a risk-proportionate model for the visibility and regulation of all providers and workers and strengthen the regulatory response to longstanding and emergent quality and safeguard issues. The urgent measures in this bill will help fight against fraud in the NDIS while protecting people with disability from exploitation by increasing the number of quality and safety commission officers with compliance powers. It also prohibits banned people from becoming approved quality auditors.</para>
<para>As I said in my opening remarks, this bill is one step, but an essential step, on the journey towards NDIS reform. It sets up pathways and supports which will be designed in NDIS rules and legislative instruments. During the inquiry, we heard loud and clear from the disability community that these rules need to be not just developed in consultation with people with a disability but truly co-designed with them. The committee's report made four recommendations in response to the evidence we received. These were a genuine attempt to try to improve this bill and to respond to concerns raised by stakeholders.</para>
<para>Our first recommendation was that, as it is increasingly premiers and chief ministers, via National Cabinet, who have direct involvement in decision-making on NDIS reform, and because it is clear that the impact of these reforms extends right across government's work, whether that's in health, education or budgets, the bill be amended so that first ministers are also recognised as ministers for the purpose of rule-making—that they are directly consulted on the rules made under this bill.</para>
<para>Secondly, in response to members of the disability community who requested reassurance that the rules made under this legislation involve genuine consultation, we recommended that a consultation statement be tabled, accompanying legislative instruments under the bill, that sets out the consultations undertaken, making it clear to the parliament and the community whether that consultation has occurred.</para>
<para>We also heard concerns from witnesses about the powers the bill provides to the CEO of the NDIA to gather information on NDIS participants, impose conditions on their funding and adjust or cancel a participant's plan. The government has already begun to address this feedback through the amendments I referenced, made in the other place, which would limit the CEO's power to request information directly from NDIS participants.</para>
<para>The committee has recommended more action. We recommended the clarification of the circumstances under which these additional powers will be used. But ultimately we recommended, once these things had been taken into account, and in line with the additional amendments made in the other place, that the bill be passed, because it's clear the urgent passage of this bill is necessary to restore certainty and sustainability for participants and their providers and to tackle fraudulent practices.</para>
<para>I appreciate that, over the course of a Senate inquiry, there are always more conversations and more engagement to be had on any piece of significant reform we look at—any piece of legislation. I am supportive of the three hearings we had and grateful to the witnesses who participated in our hearings. I think our report reflects a genuine desire to address the concerns raised by participants in our inquiry by making those four recommendations to this chamber in its consideration of the bill.</para>
<para>That said, NDIS reform is important work. It's urgent work. We all agree on how important the NDIS is for all Australians. It's necessary for equity in our country, for opportunity and for the fair go that we pride ourselves on as Australians. We also all agree that those who attempt to manipulate and defraud the NDIS should be shut down and face the severest of consequences. We remain, as a government, determined to put people back at the centre of the NDIS and to get it back on track. So I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to speak on this piece of legislation, the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, but it's worth noting that this government has now been in office for two years and, prior to the election, the minister responsible, Bill Shorten, said there were no problems with the NDIS and there was no need to get the NDIS back on track. The coalition, when in government, warned repeatedly and sought to have a mature conversation with state and territory governments, but also with the opposition, about putting the NDIS on a fiscally sustainable pathway. But Bill Shorten, the minister responsible—the member for Maribyrnong—was not open to those sorts of mature conversations. He variously accused us of running a scare campaign, said the NDIS was tracking just as predicted, said the coalition talk of cost blowouts was misinformation and ran a highly irresponsible scare campaign. Two years later, two years into office, he's finally accepted the disingenuousness of the claims he was making before the election, and now he's telling us the NDIS needs to get back on track. Well, it does need to get back on track. The NDIS last year cost us $32 billion. That's more than the cost of Medicare. The NDIS growth in costs is running at about 20 per cent per year. If that continues for the next three to four years unchecked, we will soon see spending on the NDIS eclipse the entire defence budget of Australia.</para>
<para>The NDIS is a worthwhile scheme. It's supporting some one in 50 Australians and their families, some 666,000 people. But it cannot be an unlimited, uncapped, untested and fiscally unsustainable scheme. If the public is to retain faith in the integrity and the worthwhile purpose of the scheme, but more importantly, if taxation is going to be able to continue to support the scheme, then it must be put on a fiscally sustainable pathway.</para>
<para>Two weeks ago, at Senate estimates, we heard from officials representing the scheme about the high incidence of fraud and the high incidence of claims for items that no taxpayer in their right mind would expect would be funded under the NDIS. The scheme is at a point of crisis, not only a fiscal crisis because of the growth in cost but a continued erosion in public trust and faith in the scheme because of the rampant fraud, because of things being funded which no right-thinking Australian would think should be funded under the scheme and because of the minister's unwillingness to date to grapple with the reality and prepare the public for the hard decisions and difficult compromises that will need to be taken.</para>
<para>This legislation supposedly puts the scheme onto a more fiscally sustainable pathway of eight per cent real growth in expenditure per year but provides no detail about how that is going to be met: Are the number of participants in the scheme going to be capped? Is the growth and the number of participants going to be capped? Are payments going to be capped or reduced? Are certain conditions currently supported by the NDIS going to be no longer supported? These are all things that the community that benefits from the NDIS and the broader Australian community deserve an answer to. This legislation and this minister have not provided that.</para>
<para>Soon after we heard concerns raised by experts who run the NDIS in Senate estimates, you would have thought that the minister responsible would have bunkered down, got to grips with this issue, reassured the public that there were steps in place to address it, reassured the public of his resolve to combat fraud and other abusive entitlements within the NDIS scheme, and reassured the public that there was indeed a pathway to put the NDIS on a sustainable footing. Instead, the minister found himself on a plane flying to Switzerland, to a five-star resort, Lake Burgenstock, from memory, to attend a Ukraine peace summit. I'm a supporter of peace in Ukraine, peace on the right terms, and I'm a supporter of Australia attending the Ukraine peace summit, but why the minister responsible for the National Disability Insurance Scheme is attending a Ukraine peace conference in Switzerland when the National Disability Insurance Scheme is in disarray is beyond me. You would think we would send the Prime Minister, perhaps. You would think we might send the foreign minister, or perhaps the defence minister, or perhaps any minister who sits on the National Security Committee of cabinet. While I know this government has an unconventional approach to who sits on the National Security Committee of cabinet, I'm almost certain that the minister with responsibility for the NDIS does not.</para>
<para>When the issues facing this scheme are so pressing here in Australia,  when—remember—the minister responsible was one of the original architects of this scheme in the Gillard-Rudd governments, when these issues are confronting the nation, when public faith in the NDIS scheme is being eroded and when the fiscal pathway for the scheme looks increasingly unsustainable, his job should be here in Australia dealing with these issues rather than moonlighting or auditioning for some future diplomatic role. I don't know what he has in mind. I don't know what the Prime Minister has in mind for him. Maybe he'll be our next ambassador to Ukraine. I don't know. If he is, he could return the embassy to Kyiv rather than keep it in Warsaw. For now, his job is Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme.</para>
<para>We heard from this minister before the last election that the NDIS's costs were tracking as expected. That was not the case. That was not the case when we were in government, and we warned as much. We heard from this minister before the last election that nothing needed to change, that the NDIS was proceeding as you would hope it would proceed and that nothing needed changing or addressing. We also know that was not the case. What we finally had, after two years in office, was a recognition that the points the coalition was making were right. This isn't, or needn't be, a politically partisan or contentious dispute. Both sides of politics support the existence of a scheme which looks after the most needy in our community and allows them to live more full and meaningful lives.</para>
<para>When the coalition was in office, we took the scheme from one which supported about 50,000 people to one that now supports over half a million people. We were the ones who fully funded the National Disability Insurance Scheme, presided over a significant growth in its budget and presided over the scaling up and ramping up of the scheme. We support this scheme, but it needs to be fiscally sustainable. We have offered our support. We did 2½ or three years ago, and we continue to offer support to the government to take the decisions that are necessary to restore public faith in this scheme.</para>
<para>Now, what this bill does is introduce a number of changes, which the coalition does not oppose, and which I support, to put in place the process to put the scheme on a sustainable footing. But it's really just the first step in what needs to be a much more detailed and exhaustive process—a process that has to involve more consultation with the community affected by this scheme, a process that has to be conducted with greater transparency and accountability than has happened to date, and a process that must involve an honest levelling with the Australian public and with the disability recipients about what will be covered in the scheme and what cannot be covered.</para>
<para>We have had too many instances revealed in past weeks, at Senate estimates and elsewhere, of items being funded by the National Disability Insurance Scheme which, frankly, do not pass the pub test—items which taxpayers do not think they should be supporting and which, if released publicly, would further erode confidence in this scheme. There are two parts to making sure that this scheme is sustainable. There's the fiscally sustainable part—that is, ensuring that the NDIS does not consume an ever greater share of our budget. Remember, it now costs us more than Medicare. Medicare is something every Australian accesses. The NDIS is something that 660,000 Australians—about two per cent of Australians—access, and the NDIS is growing at a cost of 20 per cent per year. If it continues to grow at that rate, it will simply consume more and more of the government budget, which will mean that other items of social welfare spending must be cut or that taxes will have to be raised considerably. No-one is making that case yet, but unless we rein in cost we will need to start having that conversation. That's the first part: fiscal sustainability.</para>
<para>But the other part is a more broader social licence, if you like. Fair, generous, decent Australians do want to ensure that the scheme is supporting those who are genuinely in need and supporting families who have much greater care requirements for family members than other parts of the Australian community. But they also want to know that what is being provided under the NDIS is being provided to people who are genuinely needy and that what is being provided are things that help them live fuller and more meaningful lives. So that's not holidays overseas, not new cars, not streaming services, not massage therapy and not any number of other things we've heard about which no-one expects the government to pay for. Whether you're on a disability support pension, unemployment benefits or the age pension, the expectation is government, as a social safety net, will provide and fund some of the basic necessities of life to allow you to live a life of dignity and meaning, but everything else is discretionary spending and, rightly, is on you or your family. The government and the NDIS should not be supporting discretionary spending.</para>
<para>To conclude, this bill is an important step forward, but it has come far too late—two years too late. It has involved insufficient consultation and transparency with proponents, supporters and beneficiaries of the scheme, and it has come from a government and a minister that have been in denial about some of these issues which we've been seeking to raise for the past few years. There is a lot more work to do to put the NDIS on a sustainable footing and what has been done to date is insufficient.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. It's clearly on the wrong track because this is a terrible bill that will cut $14.4 billion out of the NDIS and will make huge changes that will result in significant harm to the 660,000 people who rely on the NDIS. It got sent to an inquiry for three months. There were three hearings held and over 200 submissions. Day one of the hearings saw witnesses condemn the bill and implore senators to recommend that it not pass in its current form.</para>
<para>The legislation, which proposes the most significant changes to the NDIS since it commenced over a decade ago, was developed behind closed doors with representatives from disability organisations, who had to sign non-disclosure agreements. On day one of the inquiry, the committee heard directly from disabled people. Just some of their concerns with this bill include:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… this will do nothing in achieving good outcomes. This will do nothing in protecting human rights. This will kill thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people.</para></quote>
<para>Also:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is the most dangerous piece of legislation since the changes to the DSP and robodebt.</para></quote>
<para>Another was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… this bill enables the NDIA to force me out of my home if I need eight hours of support or more. I will be forced to choose between living with my wife and my vital support needs.</para></quote>
<para>Another concern was that disability:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… varies so greatly that you cannot possibly put a black-and-white mechanism, a computer algorithm, in place, much less one that is beyond being able to be challenged by a participant.</para></quote>
<para>Another quote was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Fundamentally, this bill ceases to be fit for purpose because it does not understand what it seeks to achieve, unless all it seeks to achieve is to save a bunch of money at the cost of very many lives.</para></quote>
<para>There has been significant community backlash to this bill, with organisations and disabled people and their families sharing the harm that it will do to them.</para>
<para>The budget included a cut of $14.4 billion from the NDIS that will be achieved by this legislation. In a cost-of-living crisis, this Labor government is choosing to remove $14.4 billion in funding from the NDIS. That will lead to disabled people not getting the support they need when they need it. This government has taken an active decision to abandon disabled people. They have abandoned NDIS workers and are passing the buck to the millions of Australians who undertake informal caring roles, mostly on an unpaid basis. The Labor government have decided it is more important to fund billions of dollars in handouts to weapons manufacturers than it is to support the disability community and the many disabled people that rely on the NDIS to live happy and healthy lives.</para>
<para>It is clear that there is not an essential service that Labor won't cut to fund nuclear submarines and fossil fuel subsidies and handouts. This government have done nothing short of betray the disability community, and they should be ashamed of themselves. I sat listening to my colleague, Senator Steele-John when he gave an incredibly impassioned speech opposing this bill, and I implore people in this chamber to think carefully about their position on this bill. I think I heard the opposition say, after complaining about it, that actually they will support the bill. So it's going to be rammed through with the support of both of the big parties in this chamber. The disability community have every right to feel deeply betrayed by both of those parties.</para>
<para>Just on the process, the bill was created behind closed doors and is now being rushed through. As I mentioned before, in order to even be consulted about the bill, disability organisations had to sign a non-disclosure agreement. That is not standard practice and it's very disturbing. It comes off the back of the public revelations that the government spent $600,000 on a speechwriter for the NDIS minister. They also spent $400,000 on a RedBridge commissioned focus group with messaging to help them manipulate community sentiment. The RedBridge work provided the government with the messaging they needed in order to reach a level of community acceptance that would allow this bill to not be questioned. I'm going to quote from the RedBridge report, which is report No. 4, and it's very disturbing:</para>
<quote><para class="block">When we presented rorts, fraud, and unreasonable pricing as posing an existential threat to the NDIS, we were able to create an environment in which respondents were amenable to reforms designed to counter these things.</para></quote>
<para>Informed by the RedBridge messaging work, the government has been talking about fraud, dodgy service providers and participants spending money on things like holidays and alcohol to distract the public from this terrible bill—a bill, I might add, that does nothing to address any of those concerns, if they did have any validity. Despite those claims of fraud being made by the NDIS, when my colleague asked in Senate estimates for the proof, for the receipts, none of that was able to be provided, and neither are those issues addressed in this bill. Those issues were a dangerous distraction to help this bill sail through.</para>
<para>So let's come to the substance of the bill. It sets up the framework for pushing people off the NDIS and into supports that the government says will be provided by states and territories. Well, reality check: there is no possible way that the states and territories can provide those supports in time in a way that's nationally consistent and that would guarantee that no disabled person becomes worse off. Removing people from the scheme and onto services that don't even exist yet is outrageously poor planning, with obviously harmful consequences.</para>
<para>This bill would also make it easier to prevent people from accessing the NDIS, and it would make it easier for bureaucrats to remove people from the scheme. The bill is set to prescribe specifics of what you can and can't get from NDIS. This is a blatant attempt to control the choices that participants, until this bill might pass, have been able to make for themselves. Choice and control is meant to be one of the central pillars of the NDIS, and removing it in this way makes it clear that the government prioritises their bottom line over the wellbeing of the disability community.</para>
<para>This bill would see a restriction of supports available through the scheme. It would limit people's ability to have NDIS plans that are based on their individual needs. And it would replace 'reasonable and necessary' with a new single definition of NDIS supports. This new NDIS support list would only provide funding for supports that meet a narrow definition as defined by the politicians holding the NDIS's purse strings. Be afraid. This bill would also allow bureaucrats to demand that NDIS participants undergo mandatory psychiatric or physical examinations within 90 days in order to make a decision about whether their scheme access should be revoked. Not only would this traumatise and retraumatized so many participants, and could result in people getting unfairly kicked off the scheme, but how is someone meant to get an appointment within 90 days with a psychiatrist to undergo an assessment, when the waitlists are over a year in some areas? This is a deliberately designed system to kick people off the NDIS, to help this government save $14.4 billion off the backs of disabled people, because they would rather give the money to nuclear submarines and big coal companies in the form of accelerated depreciation and cheap write-offs. What an absolute affront to the disability community and the 660,000 people who currently rely on this scheme to live some form of decent life.</para>
<para>There are so many methods and processes mentioned in the bill that haven't even been defined, including the method for turning an assessment of support needs into a budget. These vague references to methods that calculate budgets are a recipe for robodebt 2, and the Greens cannot stand for that. We will not allow it. We won't sit for it and we won't roll with it. This bill would enable the minister to make significant changes to the scheme in future without further community consultation. There used to be a phrase 'nothing about us without us,' and it's a crucial phrase that should be applying here with a system that is designed to support and assist the disability community. Yet the bill enables the minister to make changes to the scheme without further consultation with the disability community—or with anyone in the community, for that matter. I am struggling to find an example of executive overreach that has such paternalistic damage associated with it in any other piece of legislation. Imagine if a minister could just snap their fingers and remove a life-saving support from anyone's life. That is what this bill is proposing to do. It is an extreme executive power that should be resisted with every fibre of the being of this chamber.</para>
<para>My office and my wonderful staff provide a lot of support for people who already have some challenges accessing appropriate support under the NDIS scheme, and I want to share an example of some of the issues that we should be dealing with in this chamber, some of the issues that do need fixing, instead of considering a bill that cuts $14.4 billion out of the scheme, allows participants to be wantonly tossed off the scheme and gives the minister virtually unfettered executive power for future changes. I want to share some details of a family whose daughter, an NDIS participant, has faced some seriously egregious delays that have threatened her wellbeing and safety and that of her carers and her parents. I have permission from her family to share her story.</para>
<para>The NDIS participant had outgrown the stroller that she requires every day to be safely moved around by her parents and carers. After an initial delay the NDIS agreed to provide the stroller, three months after the first application, but that was then delayed by a further two months. It took five months for the NDIS to approve a simple and straightforward assistive technology request. The lack of a suitable stroller during that time—that five-month period—meant that the participant was not only deeply uncomfortable but risked falling out of the stroller and sustaining serious injury. This is totally unacceptable, and I'm sure it's just one of thousands of similarly heartbreaking cases. This is the sort of issue that this chamber should be seeking to address and fix, not this dangerous slashing of a scheme that has been supporting so many people. Sure, it has its flaws, and, yes, we need to address those, but this bill does none of that.</para>
<para>This bill is a wanton attack on the disability community. It was staged in a super dodgy way, requiring organisations to sign nondisclosure agreements, and it gives the minister an open chequebook for any future changes, without having to consult with anyone, least of all people with disability, their families or the organisations that support and represent them. The bill absolutely should not pass. It needs to be sent back to inquiry to give the community a decent amount of time to make their concerns known in the hope that someone in this chamber, beyond the Greens, might actually listen to the community. We need to make sure that this bill and the amendments proposed therein are properly scrutinised. Disabled people and those who love them, and anyone who cares about the integrity of government social services, should have the opportunity to make their feelings about this bill known. This Labor government is so deeply disappointing, raising $14.4 billion off the backs of people in the disability community and, instead, spending money on weapons of war and subsidies for fossil fuel extraction. I don't even understand why they wanted to be in government if this is the sort of policy that they come up with.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. I'm very proud to be part of two Labor governments which have presided over the NDIS. The Gillard Labor government founded the NDIS, and now the Albanese Labor government is getting the scheme back to where it was intended to be, to help people living with disabilities and the people that are caring for them.</para>
<para>In the years before the NDIS was established, Australians living with disabilities were left in the dark with little support. People with disability, and their carers, had a very fractured support base, and a lot of the time they were disengaged and entirely absent from fully participating in our society. This lack of support, together with discrimination and social exclusion, failed millions of Australians. The NDIS was created to remedy this. It emerged from the collective work of people with disabilities, the advocates and the organisations that supported them. It was a federal Labor government which was committed to not only listening to those concerns but taking the necessary action.</para>
<para>One of the great achievements of the NDIS has been the bringing together of the state, territory and Commonwealth governments to ensure that people across the country receive the same level of support and the same level of care. Today, over 600,000 people with a disability are being supported by the NDIS. Thousands of providers have served their participants, allowing people with disabilities to live a very full life. But there is still more work to be done.</para>
<para>While many people's lives have been improved and transformed by NDIS support, there have also been frustrations. Despite the usual bleating from the Greens about no-one ever doing enough and that they're the only ones who can support people with disability, the reality is that they will never form government and have the responsibility of balancing our budgets to support Australians, whether they're people with disability or they're homeless, or whether it's through our education system, our universities or our health system. It's easy to come in here and just knock the government of the day. That's what they do best. They want to scaremonger and nitpick at everything instead of getting behind us and helping to make the lives of people living with disabilities better.</para>
<para>The 2023 independent review into the NDIS demonstrated the need for reform. The goals of the review were to put people with disability at the centre of the NDIS, to restore trust and confidence in the scheme, and to ensure that the scheme can continue to operate into the future. The review recommended 26 overarching changes to the scheme that will result in better outcomes for those participants. This reform is the first of many amendments that will bring this vision of a stronger NDIS to life.</para>
<para>Recommendation 3 of the report of the independent review calls for a 'fairer and more consistent participant pathway'. This amendment will go a long way towards achieving that goal. This measure creates a new definition for 'NDIS support' that ensures funding received by participants is focused on the vital need for support resulting from their impairment. Through its many other changes, it also clarifies the process of review, bringing more certainty to individuals and carers during the often very stressful application process. As the Minister for the NDIS, the Hon. Bill Shorten MP, who was one of the original architects in our former government, noted in his speech, the time for reform is now. Making things right for people living with disabilities requires a mature and respectful dialogue between all levels of government and a spirit of cooperation that puts the interests of Australians living with disabilities first. The time for us to act is now, and this bill will help make the NDIS fairer and, most importantly, more transparent.</para>
<para>Getting the NDIS back on track means more certainty and transparency for participants and for carers. Getting the NDIS back on track means more money going towards the support that actually make the largest impact on participant mobility, community inclusion and quality of life. Getting the NDIS back on track will place Australians living with disabilities at the core of the NDIS. After all, the formation of the NDIS was always about the people. It was for those living with disability. But it was also to help and give support to carers.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, though, when the former Liberal coalition government came in a decade ago, they took their eye off the ball, like they did with the aged care reforms that we set in place at that time, because the NDIS was done at the instigation of a Labor government. They did that in aged care—that's why they had to call a royal commission into their own failings when they were in government—and with the NDIS they lost focus. They didn't have the interest, obviously—otherwise we would not have seen the deterioration of the prime focus, which was always about providing support for those with a disability. They lost focus on that because, basically, they don't have the same commitment. It's not in their DNA, as it is with a Labor government, to ensure that those people who need a helping hand get a helping hand. Those people who have a disability have access so that they can have a fulfilling, healthier life with the support that they need to fully participate. We know and understand and appreciate the valuable contribution everyone makes to make our community better, to make our country stronger.</para>
<para>The National Disability Insurance Agency workforce was left understaffed by the Liberals and Nationals for years and years. We know that there are many places, including in my home state, where those people that have already got a package of care have not been able to access the care that they need because there were no service providers. They took their eye off the ball and they did nothing to ensure that those people who needed those very important services—and I'm talking about millions of dollars that weren't and haven't been spent because they couldn't get any services provided to them. We also know that it was under their watch—when the Liberals and Nationals were in government, there was waste, there was mismanagement, there was unethical behaviour, there were unscrupulous providers, and, dare I say it, there were even some family members who were taking advantage of that money that was being allocated to look after a family member with a disability. That money wasn't necessarily always going where it was needed. What happened? You had to wait till there was a Labor government elected again to come in and, again, clean up another mess left by those opposite.</para>
<para>The core value of people on this side of the chamber, of Labor people, is to make life better for our fellow Australians—to make life better for those people living with a disability. We want to see every dollar go to where it is meant to be, and that is to the care of those people with a disability. We want to stamp out the fraud and the mismanagement, and to make sure that those people who are assessed and who have a package can get the support that they need. There will be zero tolerance for those who would take money away from those who are in need of that support.</para>
<para>This bill and Labor's further reforms will help support the more than 13,000 Tasmanians, from my home state, benefiting from the NDIS by creating a more just and efficient scheme. The Albanese Labor government will not only help support participants but also encourage the growth and skills of services that make the NDIS possible. This will create many opportunities for Australian workers, from direct support roles to medical specialists. In that way, the NDIS reforms will help all Tasmanians thrive. Just one other way that we are helping to support the NDIS and people with disabilities is by helping to fund a community care project in Launceston, where they are building a respite centre that will be a respite and training centre for carers, whether in the aged-care workforce or in disability. I'm hoping that will go on and be a project that can be emulated around the country.</para>
<para>I will always stand in this chamber—and elsewhere—and support, and advocate on behalf of, Tasmanians living with disabilities. I'm very proud to be part of a Labor government which truly cares about all Australians—not just the lucky few, not just the wealthy and not just the big end of town. We actually have empathy, respect, and compassion. They are our key, core Labor values. It took a Labor government to introduce Medicare and the NDIS, and it takes a Labor government to manage these programs correctly. Australians can trust Labor to fund and support those living with a disability. We will help deliver life-saving and life-changing programs.</para>
<para>The promise of the NDIS is that all Australians who are born with, or who acquire, a disability have peace of mind, knowing that that support will be there for them when they need it. People living with disability should never be left behind by any government or society. Labor's vision for the future is one where everyone can fully participate in our community life and have the freedom to pursue and fulfil their own needs and desires. That's our vision of the NDIS. We are not there yet. We still have a way to go before we reach that, but we will be working to ensure that the model which we had from the outset, and which was fundamentally going to be there for people with disability to support their carers and families, will be world's best practice. We will do everything we can to ensure that that is delivered. I understand those opposite will support this bill, and I urge those on the crossbench not to just come in and attack a piece of legislation for the sake of it or to exaggerate some of the concerns that they have in order to make political points. This should not be about politics. It should be about providing the support that people living with disabilities should be able to expect in a country as rich as ours.</para>
<para>Ultimately, this amendment is a first step in a long journey of changing the NDIS for the better. Progress, as I said, will not happen overnight, and amending the scheme fully will require cooperation between the states, the territories and, most importantly, the community. While we have a long way to go, this amendment is a welcome move in the right direction. It is a step that will deliver better outcomes for those with disabilities, those who are caring for them and those working in the sector. Importantly, it's a step in the right direction for Australian taxpayers. I commend the legislation to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to take a moment! I'm speaking to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024, which is quite a misnomer. I'm a little bit confused by Senator Polley's speech which talked about not politicising, when the entirety of the speech was a politicisation of what we are talking about. Discussions about former governments are irrelevant when the current government is presenting a bill on which they chose not to adequately consult. I think we need to stop and reflect on that.</para>
<para>As a member of the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee, I have spent the past few months scrutinising this legislation. We have hardly got through the tip of the iceberg in terms of what this bill will do to NDIS participants. It is, after all, as Senator Polley said, the participants of the NDIS that we need to keep in mind throughout this debate. But, while we keep them in mind, we don't engage with them and we don't let them participate in discussions around the bill; we just keep them in mind and think about them. That's extraordinary! This should be about the people who need the services. That's what this should be about. I'm sure that many of us in this chamber have had our inboxes filled with messages from participants and their families asking us not to support this flawed piece of legislation. What it is doing is focusing on making it harder for participants rather than looking at those that are exploiting the system. Why? Why is that what we're doing?</para>
<para>We all want a sustainable scheme. It's a universally held belief that the scheme needs to be arranged so that the right supports reach the right people. We need a sustainable scheme that brings the lived experience of the participants with them, and that is what this government is not allowing to happen. This is not a scare campaign. It's not knocking the government of the day, contrary to what Senator Polley said. This is what is actually happening. I sat on the committee. I have seen what has happened. This is the reality of how this government is attempting to push through this legislation. I am bitterly disappointed that this government chose to reject the coalition's and the Greens' calls to extend the committee's inquiry into this bill. Were we being unreasonable? Did we want a lot of extra time? We wanted an extra four to six weeks to get information from key stakeholders and participants so that we could ensure that this legislation and the changes would properly reflect their needs. And the answer was a resounding no. But we could keep them in our mind, as Senator Polley said; we just won't give them a voice. As long as we keep them in our mind, that's fine. That's excellent.</para>
<para>The other thing we need to remember is that they did not allow us an extra four to six weeks, despite new amendments to the bill being dropped on the first day of hearings and inquiry. So not only did we not have the full picture of what we were inquiring into but participants didn't know what the rules were until the day the inquiry began and they'd already made submissions. That's a classic case of changing the rules while you're playing the game. How is that transparent? How is that fair? How is that about getting the NDIS back on track and ensuring that it meets the needs of participants? The answer is that it doesn't. Let's not pretend that it does. It's disrespectful to all of us who have spent so much time working on this to ensure that there is a proper outcome. It's much like the order for the production of documents for the sustainability framework, which Senator Steele-John has been after. The government does not want us seeing the detail. They do not want us to scrutinise their work. They want to ram through legislation without the scrutiny of this chamber. That is unacceptable.</para>
<para>The NDIS is not a scheme that can be altered in the dark of the night or behind closed doors, no matter how hard they try, and consultation should not be shrouded by NDAs. How extraordinary! 'Come and talk to us about this bill, but we want you to sign this document that will have legal ramifications for you if you speak about it to anybody.' How is that consultation? How is that transparency? We need to actually have a think about the fact that we have a government that has asked key stakeholders in the disability sector to sign non-disclosure agreements in conversations about changes to legislation. That's not governing; that's wielding a big stick.</para>
<para>The NDIS is a significant part of our system for caring for people with disability. It needs to be dealt with transparently. That is what participants want. So what are participants asking for? They're asking for more consultation, more time and more consideration of detail to understand how these changes will impact them. We're not scaremongering. We're not knocking the government of the day. We're not trying to be difficult. We would like to understand the legislation and how it will impact participants. We are trying to do our job—absolutely. I can't understand why the government does not want us to do our job. We have a shared desire to make this scheme the best it possibly can be. Why not work with us to do that?</para>
<para>I recently received a letter from the sister of a participant who articulated the concerns of participants and their families and the impact these changes will have. I'm going to share that with you. The letter is headlined, 'Please do not pass the NDIS Amendment Bill'. It reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My sister is 32 and has a great life. She rides horses competitively, works doing accessibility audits and training, and has her own small business. She cried from happiness at the Taylor Swift concert. She loves living independently with support in her own house.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, her current life and prospects for a normal and happy future are at risk of disappearing before our eyes, due to the proposed changes in the NDIS Amendment Bill and the delegated legislation that will be made under it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My sister has a severe physical disability and is in a wheelchair, her speech is impaired, and she's almost blind, as she has a rare metabolic disorder that is degenerative. She has 24/7 support, with one support worker with her at all times. Her support workers are all from the local community, and mostly people she knows organically—almost none of them have ever worked in disability before working with her.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has said that under the Bill, housing and living supports for participants with 24/7 care will be required to be shared supports, with one support worker to three participants. This would be devastating for—</para></quote>
<para>my sister—</para>
<quote><para class="block">because:</para></quote>
<list>She will be forced to share a house with at least two others who also have high support needs. This is an indignity that no other Australian without a disability is forced into—the Government doesn't make people in public housing live in a house with strangers.</list>
<list>She'll be stripped of the ability to plan her life, to live, go or do what she wants independently.</list>
<list>She won't be able to go out at night, as she currently does, or attend shows in the city. Her life will revolve around the communal needs of our housemates and the availability of that single support worker.</list>
<list>She will need to stop working and will be unable to continue her small business. This starkly opposes the key principles of inclusion and participation that the NDIS was built upon.</list>
<list>She will be forced into using agency staff with no continuity of care or ability to support her horseriding. She won't be able to hand select her supports who provide her with dignity and care in every aspect of life.</list>
<list>She will need to move out of her current house owned by her sister and away from her community to find shared accommodation.</list>
<quote><para class="block">My sister will be living in a mini-institution, a life chosen for her and controlled by others. But she is a real person, and not that different from you. You, your partner, your child, or your sister may one day find themselves in a situation where they need full-time support. Is this a life that you would want for them?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill has been pushed through quickly and quietly, with limited consultation and clarity on how it will impact people with disabilities. What is clear, though, is that the Minister will have huge powers to make rules down the road, without proper scrutiny or protections in place, for life-altering decisions like what needs assessment tools are used, and what funding can be spent on. These rules can be made by the Minister without proper co-design, transparency, or protections in place. These types of powers are typically found in things like customs regulations—not rules that impact the minute details of the everyday lives of people with disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Giving the Minister these unbridled powers mean living with the fear that everything can be taken away, a constant pit in your stomach. Having a sister with a disability is not a burden, but living in limbo, waiting for the next rule to be made that upends her life is.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We must legislate co-design, transparency, and constraints on the Minister's power, which this Bill does not. The Bill cannot be passed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that this Bill is being introduced to reduce costs, and I'm all about making the NDIS sustainable. However, we also know that there's a huge price gouging for services and fraud committed by suppliers to the NDIS. Instead of focusing on these areas, the Bill looks to recoup money by taking it from the participants—it's easy to take from the most vulnerable Australians. However, by doing so, we're attacking the fundamental principles of choice and control that the NDIS was meant to enshrine. We can do better than this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To pass this Bill is to put into law that people with disabilities are second-class citizens. They don't deserve the same life, rights, or decency we would want for any other Australians.</para></quote>
<para>According to the letter, the NDIS participant's life:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… is now a testament to the success and promise of the NDIS, and it should be a model for others, not a casualty of cost-cutting measures. It's not too late to get the NDIS back on track with what it was set out to do—to provide people with disabilities choice and control over their lives.</para></quote>
<para>That's the letter from the sister of an NDIS participant. If that does not move us to consider why we are trying to ram something through, I don't know what will.</para>
<para>This story is shared with the other 660,000 Australians who are on this scheme, many of whom are concerned about what the changes will mean for them. It is entirely unacceptable for a government to treat some of our most vulnerable in this way. And doing so, in the face of multipartisan support for reform, just shows how immature and careless this bill is. I say it again: the name of the bill is actually a misnomer.</para>
<para>Senator Polley said three things were key Labor values: empathy, respect and compassion. How does this bill in any way demonstrate empathy, respect or compassion for people living with disability? It doesn't. Labor was elected to government on the back of their promises of transparency and empathy. Where are those things today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to discuss the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. This scheme must get back on track. It needs to get back on track for the sustainability of the NDIS so that the critical role it plays in so many Australian's lives can be protected.</para>
<para>Australians with disability, before the scheme, were too often unseen and unheard, living in our shadows. People with disability were too often subject to the misery lottery—that is, disability support was incredibly patchy across the country, and very much so in my own home state of Western Australia. Depending on your postcode, you might have been lucky enough to have some funding to help you and your family or you might have lived a life of complete uncertainty, disadvantage and poverty. Of course, it was also subject to how you had acquired your disability, and there was much discrimination based on whether you were born with a disability or whether, for example, you had acquired a brain or spinal injury or a degenerative condition at some other point in life.</para>
<para>It was clear then, just as it is clear now, that we need a whole system of disability support across our nation. We need to make sure the NDIS is fit for purpose to support people with disability, particularly those with the most complex support needs, which mean they can be vulnerable to exploitation and to missing out on the critical services they need. They can be vulnerable to exploitation from providers who aren't doing the right thing to uphold the support needs of their clients.</para>
<para>Our parliament made the decision a decade ago that we should not let someone's postcode or financial situation dictate whether or not they get the services they need. But today there are new lotteries emerging for people with NDIS support, based, for example, on whether you have an ethical or unethical provider. This sits behind the legislation that we are debating here today. I find it startling, frankly, that the Greens and the coalition are not here to stand by to make sure that the NDIS is cleaned up to weed out unethical providers and to make sure that people can get the support that they need.</para>
<para>The 10 years of NDIS that we've had has fundamentally changed Australia. It represents the best of us as a nation. It represents our values—it's about giving Australians a fair go—and represents a levelling of the playing field. It should and must continue to evolve over time, in deep consultation with people with disability, in co-design with people with disability, just as this legislation sets out.</para>
<para>The NDIS is not currently working well for everyone. We've heard from participants about how every interaction with the NDIS can become a battle. We spoke through the Senate community affairs committee inquiry about the struggles that so many have had to go through to get the support they need, and we did our best to consult through the community affairs committee. I want to highlight the fact that this also came, at the back end, from the NDIS review process, as well as from the many town hall events that the Department of Social Services held as part of that review. Our inquiry had over 200 submissions and heard from 50 witnesses. We held two lived experience panels and we heard from agencies. We held hearings over three days, and in those hearings we heard a lot of evidence that the government has been tuned in and making changes to the legislation in response to issues raised.</para>
<para>Some of the concerns that were identified in the review and in our inquiry, which this legislation is here to fix, are that, while some people can manage an unregistered provider, lack of registration has led to exploitation and abuse, and there is currently very little oversight of the scheme. I would also note that the provision of unregistered services is leading to the exploitation of workers in a gig-like economy. Some of the nation's biggest disability service providers insist that their workers have their own ABN. That means they don't have to pay superannuation and can keep workers' hours low so that they don't have to pay a whole range of things. They make their workers responsible for their own workers compensation and the like.</para>
<para>This means that quality providers who want to provide registered services are not just being undercut by one-on-one relationships where someone wants to recruit someone of their own accord and put their own team together. I understand the need to do that. But this lack of registration is actually seeing some of our nation's biggest disability support providers exploiting workers and undercutting their working conditions. I understand that this legislation is first and foremost about people with disability, their need for the supports and the capacity of this system to provide those supports. However, I contend that, if you have providers that are putting workers out there in the system with their own ABNs when in fact the providers have thousands of workers on the books, that is not going to result in quality support and quality systems.</para>
<para>The scheme's integrity chief, John Dardo, told the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee about the extent of fraud and illegal activity his team were seeing and have been stopping since the team was set up in late 2022. In my view, it is incredibly shocking to hear that funding supposed to be used for packages of support for people with permanent and significant disabilities could instead be used to fund criminal activities or to purchase cars or holidays, with fraudulent providers even withdrawing plan funds from ATMs to buy illicit substances. Now, under our government, we are checking thousands of invoices every day, whereas previously only 20 invoices across thousands issued to the agency were being checked on a daily basis. Previously, if you put in a claim, it was just paid. This is why, as part of this reform process, we are making sure that we're able to clean up the scheme to catch crooks—so that people with disability get the money spent on them and their primary support needs.</para>
<para>Ever since Labor was elected, we've invested in a mammoth fraud clean-up job, including $126 million in funding over four years to establish the Fraud Fusion Taskforce. In February this year we announced funding of the $83.9 million program to improve the integrity of the NDIS. But improving this integrity fundamentally also means needing to change some of its regulation. The problems in the underlying regulation and law mean it is too difficult to clean up the NDIS without the law reform that is before us today. We want the NDIS to continue to be able to change lives for the better. This is an investment in people. It is an investment in our nation. We are creating jobs and careers, small businesses and innovative startups, with people delivering businesses and providing services, including many businesses providing employment for people with disability who are supporting and providing services to other people with disability. But it is too important to politicise this issue in the way that has been done and to not take the opportunity to get it right and to fix it for the future. This Labor government is absolutely committed to getting the NDIS reform right. We're committed to co-design, hearing NDIS participants and protecting this scheme now and for future generations.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The NDIS is one of the most important schemes implemented by the Commonwealth government to assist Australians with a serious and permanent disability. It is absolutely crucial that any substantial amendment of that scheme be adequately reviewed by this Senate, the house of review, to make sure that it doesn't have unintended consequences and that, for the people who are most impacted by this amendment—those who are currently in the scheme, those who are trying to get in the scheme and their loved ones—this legislation and the regulations which will be made under it have gone through adequate review, and that has simply not occurred in this case. It has not occurred.</para>
<para>So we have a situation where those of my fellow coalition senators who are on the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, who have spoken in relation to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 and who are passionate about this scheme and about the scheme delivering for the people it is intended to support—the many hundreds of thousands of people who are supported by this scheme—were forced to provide additional comments of one page, and this is what they said. I want to put this on the record:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition is unable to provide fully-informed commentary on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 … due to the government's unwillingness to grant an extension to the committee for further scrutiny on sensible and necessary measures for the sustainability of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<para>The coalition sought a very modest extension of the timetable to enable not so much the senators in this place but the people who will be directly impacted by this legislation to have their say. That's our job. We're a house of review, so, when the other place, the lower house, passes legislation, it is our job to closely scrutinise that legislation, even if it is introduced with the best of intentions, to make sure it does not have unintended consequences affecting, in some cases, the most vulnerable people in this country. This place has been deprived of the opportunity to have a proper, full process of scrutiny in relation to this legislation, and that is deeply concerning.</para>
<para>I want to continue reading from the additional comments of the coalition senators in relation to the committee report. They wrote one page, because they simply didn't have the time or the information to provide any further discussion. That's the issue with the consultation process that's been undertaken. Paragraph 1.2 says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We note insufficient time has been provided for proper consultation with the sector and the community—</para></quote>
<para>the people impacted by the bill—</para>
<quote><para class="block">who have expressed widespread misgivings about the current legislation.</para></quote>
<para>So it's not the senators in this place who are saying that there hasn't been enough time for consultation and that we don't know enough about this bill and its consequences, including unintended consequences; it's the stakeholders representing the people most impacted by the bill who are saying that. They haven't had the opportunity to have their say in relation to the consequences of this bill. So, when we get up and say there has been inadequate consultation in relation to this bill, we are speaking for the hundreds of thousands of Australians who have told us that, through their stakeholder bodies and directly through letters to us as senators. I've received my fair share as well.</para>
<para>Paragraph 1.3 of the additional comments from coalition senators reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The opportunity to properly engage with this bill is important in bringing the NDIS back onto sustainable footing in a manner that does not disadvantage or impact negatively on participants most in need.</para></quote>
<para>I will predict today that there are participants in this scheme who will be impacted negatively by this bill who have not had an opportunity to have their say on this bill. They don't know what's coming down the track in relation to this legislation because there has been inadequate consultation. Then we will see the government will be scrambling, because senators in this place will come forward with the stories of those people. The government will be scrambling all over the shop to try to amend something instead of doing the proper consultation upfront, which is how the process is meant to work.</para>
<para>Paragraph 1.4 reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It was also concerning that the committee was not given the opportunity to consult the sector on government amendments tabled on the day of the public hearing.</para></quote>
<para>The way this place works is a piece of legislation is moved in the Senate, and it then gets referred to a committee. The committee then organises a public hearing. Before that public hearing, stakeholders are given an opportunity to make submissions in relation to the legislation. What happened in this case was the government tabled further amendments on the day the hearing started. How are you meant to conduct an appropriate public consultation process in such circumstances? It's a shambles, an absolute shambles!</para>
<para>Paragraph 1.5 reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition notes legislative instruments and rules are still under development and the committee has not been provided with substantial detail on this to date.</para></quote>
<para>This is an extraordinarily important point. I wasn't sitting on the committee that looked at this legislation, but I have had a chance to look at the bill. Some of the most important documents under this bill are regulations and rules which will come into place after the legislation is passed, but no-one has seen them. The whole package should have been put up for close scrutiny at the same time—or at least the overarching principles, so that stakeholder groups and those impacted by the scheme had a reasonable opportunity to provide their feedback. Instead, we are passing legislation in the dark. We're in the dark because we don't know what the rules are going to be. We don't know what particular ministerial instruments are going to be.</para>
<para>I want to give you some examples—this is from the explanatory memorandum for the bill, which goes for some pages. I picked some examples from the first 10 pages just to give people listening to this debate a feel. Paragraph 3 in the outline says the bill provides for the needs assessment process—an absolutely critical process:</para>
<quote><para class="block">and the method for calculating the total amount of the participant's flexible funding and funding for stated supports for new framework plans to be specified in legislative instruments and NDIS rules.</para></quote>
<para>It doesn't get more fundamental than that. The needs assessment process, the method for calculating the total amount of the participants' flexible funding, and funding for stated supports—the new framework plans—are going to be legislated instruments and regulations we haven't seen. We don't know what's going to be in them. The people impacted by this legislation don't know what's going to be in them. We are getting only half the story. We are expected to pass legislation in the dark—legislation that is going to have a material impact on hundreds of thousands of people.</para>
<para>I go to page 3 of the explanatory memorandum, which says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposed new paragraph 10(b) provides that a support is an NDIS support—</para></quote>
<para>and this is a key question as to whether or not something is classified as an NDIS support—</para>
<quote><para class="block">for a person who is a participant or prospective participant if the support is declared by NDIS rules to be a support …</para></quote>
<para>Again, we haven't been given the draft rules—we don't know what is going to be in them. We're passing legislation in the dark. The next paragraph reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Proposed new paragraph 10(c) provides that a support is not an NDIS support for a person if the support is declared by NDIS rules to be a support that is not appropriately funded or provided through the NDIS for participants …</para></quote>
<para>Again, it is all in the rules. We haven't got the rules. We are debating this in the dark.</para>
<para>Page 5 of the explanatory memorandum states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This amendment provides the statutory foundation for the future early intervention pathway—</para></quote>
<para>which is an extremely critical pathway, especially if you are dealing with young children who perhaps have autism or some other disability. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Operationalising this pathway will require the establishment of Category A NDIS rules.</para></quote>
<para>Do we have the rules? We don't have the rules. We're debating legislation in the dark.</para>
<para>On page 6, in relation to subsection 25(3), the EM states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A second note alerts the reader—</para></quote>
<para>and I'm going to alert the Senate and everyone else listening to this debate—</para>
<quote><para class="block">that NDIS rules may be made under section 27 that are relevant to the consideration of the early intervention requirements.</para></quote>
<para>Again, it refers to the rules, which we don't have.</para>
<para>Page 7 of the EM states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This item repeals and substitutes section 27 which allows for NDIS rules relating to the determination of any matter for the purposes of the disability requirements and early intervention requirements.</para></quote>
<para>Again, we don't have the rules. It goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Similar to the existing section 27, proposed new section 27 will allow NDIS rules to prescribe methods and criteria to be applied, or matters that may, must or must not be taken into account—</para></quote>
<para>for relevant purposes.</para>
<para>Then the EM gives an example, and this sums it up. This is an example of someone called Kym:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Kym applies to the NDIS based on an impairment which results in psychosocial disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Kym's disability is highly episodic in nature, in that its impacts on her life fluctuate from time to time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is currently a great deal of ambiguity about how some access criteria should be applied to Kym's circumstances.</para></quote>
<para>This is the explanatory memorandum, detailing how this new scheme relates to Kim:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This new power enables a rule to be made, clarifying how certain NDIS access criteria should be applied to Kym's unique circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a result, Kym and her health professionals have a clearer idea about whether Kym is likely to be eligible to access the NDIS, what information is required to make an access request, and Kym's access decision is able to be clearly explained to her—</para></quote>
<para>except it can't be explained to Kym and her health professionals because we don't have the rules. We're expected to pass legislation without having the rules. We're legislating in the dark. It says, 'This new power enables a rule to be made.' Where's the rule? What's going to be in the rule? Where do Kim and her health professionals have an opportunity to provide feedback in relation to the draft rule so that we, as a Senate, have an opportunity to consider that feedback and discharge our obligations as senators to closely review this legislation.</para>
<para>So the example given that supposedly makes everything clear to Kym and her health practitioners is all dependent upon a rule that we don't know. We haven't seen it. We don't know what's in it. We don't know what principles it applies, and we don't know how it will impact Kym and her health practitioners. On that basis, we're expected to pass legislation in this place. We're expected to pass legislation without knowing what's going to be in those rules and determinations.</para>
<para>Here's another one. There are something like 50 pages of the explanatory memorandum, and I'm only up to page 8 in terms of the relevance of the rules. Page 8 of the EM deals with the circumstances in which a person ceases to be a participant. That's obviously a key decision point. Someone has been a participant and then someone makes a decision that that person ceases to be a participant. That is a key decision point which will have profound consequences for that person and their family. This is what the EM says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The subsection does, however, allow for Category A NDIS rules to specify the circumstances where payments can still be made for supports provided or acquired before a participant ceases to be a participant …</para></quote>
<para>So, again, we've got to see the rules, but we don't have the rules. And the people who are most impacted by this legislation have not had the opportunity to see the rules. They have not had the opportunity to see what ministerial determinations might be issued under this bill, notwithstanding that those rules and determinations will have a profound impact on those participating in this scheme.</para>
<para>This is simply not good enough. One of the key functions of government is to provide support to those in need in our community, and in this case to enable the people obtaining that support to live with dignity and to have every opportunity to marshal all their skills and talents and apply those to the benefit of the wider community. It's one of the key factors underpinning this legislation. The minister has driven a process whereby there's been inadequate scrutiny and whereby the objections of those most impacted by this legislation have been overridden, and the minister refuses to budge and give all the information needed for intelligent debate of this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind the chamber that this is not my first speech. I rise to speak about the huge concerns that I hold with the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. But before doing that I want to thank my colleague Senator Steele-John for his extraordinary leadership on this shameful move by the government that will impact so many people and families right across this country. And I'm sorry, Jordan, that you're back here having to fight this, and I'm sorry to the many families that are feeling the pressure and the stress of this bill coming before the parliament today.</para>
<para>As the Greens senator for Victoria I am hearing enormous community backlash to this bill, with organisations and disabled people and their families sharing their despair and detailing the harm it will do to them. The bill puts into action the Labor government's $14.4 billion cuts to the National Disability Insurance Scheme, which will result in immeasurable harm to people who rely on the NDIS. Let's be clear: this bill will make disabled people's lives and the lives of their families immediately more difficult. This bill will cost lives and it will set disabled people back decades. The government has failed to engage adequately with these criticisms and has instead undertaken a bad-faith campaign to undermine the scheme by talking about fraud and noncompliance.</para>
<para>In a cost-of-living crisis, the Labor government is choosing to remove $14.4 billion in funding from the NDIS that will lead to disabled people not getting the support they need when they need it. This government has chosen to abandon disabled people. They have abandoned NDIS workers and are passing the buck to the millions of Australians who undertake informal carer roles. Labor has decided that it's more important to fund billions in handouts to weapons manufacturers than it is to support our community and the many disabled people who rely on the NDIS to live happy and healthy lives.</para>
<para>It's clear that there is not an essential service that Labor won't cut to fund nuclear submarines and fossil fuel handouts. This government has betrayed the disability community, and they should be ashamed of themselves for this bill that is being created behind closed doors and rushed through the parliament. Astoundingly, disability organisations were required to sign NDAs in order to be consulted on the bill. What does that say? The government spent $600,000 on a speechwriter for the NDIS minister and $400,000 on RedBridge commissioned focus groups and messaging. Instead of talking about the substance of the bill, the government has been doing what they do best: spinning focus groups to manipulate community sentiment. Despite these claims of fraud being made by the NDIA, they were not able to provide any proof when questioned during Senate estimates.</para>
<para>This bill sets up the framework for pushing people off the NDIS and onto supports that the government reckons will be provided by states and territories. But there is no possible way that the states and territories can provide those supports in time and in a way that is nationally consistent and will guarantee that no disabled person becomes worse off under Labor's NDIS plan—or lack of plan. Removing people from the scheme onto services that don't yet exist is outrageously poor planning, with obviously harmful consequences. This bill will make it easier to prevent people from accessing the NDIS and will make it easier for bureaucrats to remove people from the scheme. This bill is set to prescribe specific supports that you can and can't get from the NDIS. It is a blatant attempt to control the choices that participants make. Choice and control is one of the central pillars of the NDIS, and removing it in this way makes it clear that the government prioritises their bottom line over the wellbeing of the disability community.</para>
<para>This bill will see a restriction of supports available through the scheme. It will limit our ability to have NDIS plans that are based on our individual needs and it will replace 'reasonable and necessary' with a new single definition of 'NDIS supports'. This new NDIS support list will only provide funding for supports that meet a new narrow definition, as defined by politicians holding the NDIS's purse strings.</para>
<para>This bill will allow bureaucrats to demand that NDIS participants undergo mandatory psychiatric or physical examinations within 90 days in order to make a decision about whether their scheme access should be revoked. This will traumatise and retraumatised so many participants and could result in getting them unfairly kicked off the scheme. How is someone supposed to get an appointment with a psychiatrist to undergo an assessment within 90 days when waiting lists are over many years in some areas?</para>
<para>There are so many methods and processes mentioned in the bill that haven't been defined, including the method for turning an assessment of support needs into a budget. These vague references to methods that calculate budgets are a recipe for robodebt 2—make no mistake—and we will not allow that.</para>
<para>This bill will enable the minister to make significant changes to the scheme in the future without community consultation. This is outrageous. To cut out the voices and feedback of affected people is not how good policy should be made, and I thank you, Senator Steele-John, for reminding us of that critical principle: nothing about them without them. Imagine if a minister could snap their fingers and remove a life-saving service from your life.</para>
<para>As the Greens senator for Victoria, I have been inundated with emails and calls from concerned constituents and people working across the sector who are deeply concerned about this bill. One Victorian constituent wrote to me:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am so concerned about the effect of the NDIS Amendment Bill on my adult daughter with a disability. My daughter is severely physically disabled and blind as the result of a very rare and complex metabolic disorder which is degenerative.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Her speech is hard to understand and she uses a Seeing Eye Dog. She also has complex health issues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">She currently lives independently with 24/7 support in her own house that is owned by her sister. It is not accessible and it is difficult for her and her support staff to manage. We are just about to start building a house for her that will support her high physical support needs so that she can live, work and have a normal life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If passed in its current form, the NDIS Amendment Bill will have massive impact on her life:</para></quote>
<list>She will be forced to share a house with three other people with high support needs and share her support at the ratio of 1 carer to 3 participants</list>
<list>She will be forced into using agency staff, with no continuity of care, no specialist training in her complex health needs, and ability to support her with her horses and riding</list>
<list>She will be placed in an environment that we know from the Royal Commission, has resulted in terrible abuse of people with disabilities</list>
<list>She will be required to move away from her community where she is well known and very involved, to find shared accommodation</list>
<list>She will no longer be entitled to live a normal life. It will take away everything that the NDIS was supposed to support. Instead she will be required to live in group homes with no control over who provides her intimate personal care, meals, where she can go and when. This will be absolutely devastating for her.</list>
<para>This Victorian has urged their representatives to vote against the bill.</para>
<para>Another constituent shared with me their concerns about the bill on their sister, and I quote them:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill has been pushed through quickly and quietly, with limited consultation and clarity on how it will impact people with disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What is clear, though, is that the Minister will have huge powers to make rules down the road, without proper scrutiny or protections in place, for life-altering decisions like what needs assessment tools are used, and what funding can be spent on. These rules can be made by the Minister without proper co-design, transparency, or protections in place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Giving the Minister these unbridled powers mean living with fear that everything can be taken away, a constant pit in your stomach. Having a sister with a disability is not a burden, but living in limbo, waiting for the next rule to be made that upends her life, is.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We must legislate co-design, transparency, and constraints on the Minister's power, which this Bill does not. The Bill cannot be passed.</para></quote>
<para>This Victorian constituent says that to pass the bill is to put into law that people with disabilities are second-class citizens. It is not too late to get the NDIS back on track with what it sets out to do: to provide people with disabilities choice and control over their lives.</para>
<para>Another constituent shared their concerns about the bill for them and their son. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These proposed changes threaten to set the disability rights movement back twenty years, limiting the lives of disability and in many cases presenting serious dangers to lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments to the NDIS threaten to narrow the scope of supports, destabilise access and impose undue burdens on participants.</para></quote>
<para>According to this constituent, the proposed definition of 'NDIS supports' risks excluding essential services, undermining the ability of people with disability to live independently. 'By limiting our ability to use supports as we see fit, it limits our ability to live independently and reduce our reliance on support workers,' they told me. This constituent said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I encourage decision makers to reject this Bill and the premise that the lives of people with disability are narrowed or compromised. I encourage you to prevent its passage through the Senate.</para></quote>
<para>Another constituent said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm writing this email on behalf of two very different friends with very different needs. I have seen up close how difficult their lives are and how every day is a matter of negotiating significant challenges. I have also seen how NDIS has made it possible for them, thanks to their own determination and that of loved ones, to find systems that make life not only bearable, but meaningful.</para></quote>
<para>This constituent told me:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed changes to the NDIS are terrifying for my friends. They are looking at the end of a world where they get to control their own destinies. They are afraid of dramatic cuts to the services that make their ongoing lives possible, particularly where they get to select and train their own support workers. This makes a huge difference to their quality of life. They need support workers who share their values and understand who they are as people.</para></quote>
<para>Talking about their friends, my constituent said,</para>
<quote><para class="block">Support workers who are provided by for-profit companies, who are neither well-trained nor well-paid … Both my friends have horror stories to impart, and both of them live in fear of the day when they will no longer have a say in who gets to have that most crucial and intimate relationship with them. Trust and empowerment are absolutely crucial.</para></quote>
<para>According to this Victorian, funding for basic services for their friends, like being able to swim, to receive psychological services or to take a holiday, are under threat. Small things that able-bodied people take for granted, which require organisation and assistance, make all the difference between wellbeing and a sense of powerlessness and abandonment, depression and physical ill health. This person told me that both their friends need one-to-one support. They won't survive, mentally or physically, if they are put into shared accommodation. They said the NDIS may not be perfect, but it has made lives livable, it has boosted the economy, it is 'reasonable and necessary', and it is for every one of us who needs it. This constituent urged us here in this place to do all that we can to make sure that it stays that way and that 'Shorten's proposed changes do not eviscerate it beyond recognition'.</para>
<para>I reiterate that this bill should absolutely not pass. It should be sent back to inquiry to give the community more time to make their concerns known and to enable further parliamentary scrutiny. Disabled people, those who love them and anyone who cares about the integrity of government social services should make their feelings known about this harmful bill. This bill will cost lives and it will set disabled people back decades. The Greens will not support this bill in its current form in the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to make a contribution on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. Noting that I will be put in continuation in about five minutes, I wanted to make some initial comments, first up, about the issue of scrutiny. From sitting here this afternoon and listening to the debate on this bill, it is very clear to me that the ability of this chamber to fully scrutinise the impact of this bill and to fully understand the impact that this bill will have on NDIS participants and the community that supports them has been seriously lacking, and I think that is incredibly disappointing.</para>
<para>I want to quote from the report into this bill. These are the additional comments that were tabled by my colleagues, coalition senators on the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Senator Kovacic and Senator Hughes. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition is unable to provide fully-informed commentary on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 [Provisions] legislation, due to the government's unwillingness to grant an extension to the committee for further scrutiny on sensible and necessary measures for the sustainability of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We note insufficient time has been provided for proper consultation with the sector and the community on the bill who have expressed widespread misgivings about the current legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The opportunity to properly engage with this bill is important in bringing the NDIS back onto sustainable footing in a manner that does not disadvantage or impact negatively on participants most in need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was also concerning that the committee was not given the opportunity to consult the sector on government amendments tabled on the day of the public hearing.</para></quote>
<para>This is a direct quote from the Senate report into this bill, from the additional comments that were provided by my colleagues who sit as voting members on the community affairs committee.</para>
<para>As a senator who has sat in this chamber for almost five years now and who has often spoken in contributions on legislation about the importance of this chamber as a chamber of scrutiny, I think it is incredibly disappointing that senators came away from this inquiry process into this legislation feeling that, as a committee of the Senate and as a chamber, we weren't able to do our job in scrutinising that legislation, because we weren't provided with the opportunity by the government. As senators in this place will know well but those listening at home may not, these legislation committees are fundamentally controlled by the government. The direction that an inquiry takes is negotiated across the chamber, but the government are the voting members that have the final say. So we are now considering this legislation here today. We've had a very fulsome debate on this legislation so far, and I think that that will continue in the coming days. It is incredibly disappointing that senators weren't able to have their concerns fully addressed throughout the committee inquiry process.</para>
<para>The other important thing about Senate committee inquiries is that it's not just about us. Yes, we are the ones who get to come along and ask questions of various witnesses to understand the ramifications of legislation on our country, on various elements of our community, on individuals et cetera, but Senate inquiries are also a really important opportunity for members of our community to have a say on whether they think legislation needs work. When we are talking about a piece of legislation, such as we are today in relation to the NDIS, I would have thought it would go without saying that individuals and members of the community who are impacted by the legislation would be given a very fair and very fulsome opportunity to have their concerns heard by this chamber through the Community Affairs Legislation Committee.</para>
<para>Colleagues on the crossbench agree. We've had contributions from Greens senators today likewise saying that the inquiry process that was initiated into this legislation has not given these individuals, members of the community, NDIS participants and people impacted by this legislation the ability to have their voices heard. This is not simply something that is coming from us as the opposition; this is a concern that has been heard around the chamber. The concern is that, through the inquiry process, the community has not been able to have its say on the legislation, to make suggestions as to how the legislation could have been improved and to understand how the legislation is going to create change in the way that it fairly should, in the way that this chamber is set up to allow and in the way that I think most Australians in our democracy fairly expect. It is a good thing that this chamber is a chamber of scrutiny. It is a good thing that we, in whatever policy committee we happen to serve on, have the opportunity to take government legislation out of this building, out of this city, to the rest of the country—to consult, to ask questions and to understand the impact.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! It being 1.30 pm, I will now proceed to two-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>37</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise this afternoon to speak about Australia's transfer pricing arrangements in regard to taxation. In particular I want to focus on two companies whose figures have just been released. One is Facebook, who earned $1.34 billion in revenue here in Australia recently and made only a five per cent operating profit. In other words, for every dollar they earned they transferred 95 per cent of those profits offshore. When I read that, I went and looked up their SEC filing in the New York Stock Exchange, only to see that their worldwide profit ratio was 40 per cent. You have to ask yourself why it is that Australia is only earning one-eighth of its worldwide income. The other company I'd like to refer to is Netflix. They earned $1.1 billion here in Australia and transferred 92 per cent of their profits offshore. I looked up their consolidated worldwide account figures, and their overall operating profit was 21 per cent. The question we have to ask ourselves is: why are we allowing big, foreign tech multinationals to shift so much profit offshore, rather than ensuring that they keep the same amount, or at least a similar amount, of operating profit here in Australia as what they do across their worldwide set of accounts?</para>
<para>The tax office has thin cap arrangements in place. For those of you who aren't familiar with that, thin capitalisation is when they have a worldwide gearing ratio that basically says multinationals cannot load up too much debt in Australia, and that debt is pretty much limited to their worldwide debt ratio. I'm calling on the tax office to have a similar arrangement in regard to profit: if a multinational company makes 40 per cent profit worldwide, for example, then 40 per cent—or a very similar amount—should be retained here in Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Eyre Peninsula Health Alliance</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm delighted to stand here today and update the chamber on a project that I have spoken about here before, which is the Northern Eyre Peninsula Health Alliance Innovative Models of Care Program. We know that in some of our regional areas access to health care is very, very challenging. Innovative models are required to enable us to provide the kind of health care that people need in different circumstances and in different geographic locations.</para>
<para>I've had the pleasure of working alongside the Northern Eyre Peninsula Health Alliance for the last couple of years, looking at solutions. What happens out in some of our regional areas is that, when the community see a challenge, they immediately start looking for the solutions. They're not always looking for somebody else to fix their problems; they're actually looking to find the solutions that will work for their own local communities, and that's exactly what the Northern Eyre Peninsula Health Alliance has done. I was delighted when we got news last week that they'd received funding to enable the Innovative Model of Care Program to go ahead as a trial. They have been given $1.38 million, which will make a fundamental difference.</para>
<para>We know that in those regions it's important to not only give doctors, nurses and allied health professionals the opportunity and attraction to be there but also to provide them with the kind of support they need to have a fulfilling professional career. This cluster model, which has been designed by the community for the community, is exactly what we are going to trial here. I'm delighted, and I particularly want to give a shout-out to the Mayor of Kimba, Dean Johnson, who has worked tirelessly on this project. Well done to everyone in northern Eyre.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Nuclear Energy</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the last two weeks we've seen Mr Dutton dump climate targets for 2030 and then, only days later, announce his dangerous nuclear ploy. Mr Dutton clearly is the Mr Burns of Australian politics, but it is much more serious than that. This is a sinister ploy by Peter Dutton and the coalition to undermine climate action, to undermine renewable energy, to deny climate change and to give cover for the fossil fuel industry. Mr Dutton's policy, if you can call it that—it's not costed, there's no real detail, and we don't know what is going to happen to the radioactive waste, which is so deadly and dangerous—is a sinister ploy to wreck climate action.</para>
<para>As a South Australian, I want to put it very clearly on behalf of my state: we will not accept this toxic, radioactive ploy from Peter Dutton. We are proud of our clean and green renewable energy. South Australia leads the country in the transition, and what Mr Dutton wants to do is to put a radioactive wrecking ball right through our economy and right through our environment, leaving South Australia to host the dangerous, deadly, radioactive dump. South Australians are not going to stand for it, and I certainly won't either.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports: Sheep</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Keep the sheep! The petition now has over 60,000 signatures. This government and this minister thought it was worthy to put into the explanatory memorandum the fact that 42,000 had signed a petition opposing the ban on our live export industry in Western Australia, so I'd like to hear what the minister has to say about the more than 60,000 who have supported the Western Australian sheep industry and our live exports and who say: keep the sheep. We had Prime Minister Albanese on Western Australian radio last week mocking the name of this grassroots organisation in WA. Why is it called Keep the Sheep? It's because it's about keeping the sheep industry in WA. It's about keeping the WA truckies on the road, keeping the WA shearers on the tools, keeping the vets in the communities and keeping Western Australian communities alive.</para>
<para>I want to quote from the Western Australian Shearing Industry Association head's submission to the House of Representatives inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I fear for our local communities. I'm a shearing contractor in a small town of 500 people. I employ 30 staff. I provide housing and meals, so I also employ a cook. I have a payroll of over $2 million … I spend over $100,000 a year in my local IGA. I spend $50,000 on fuel to run my buses and cars ... 30 staff spend their money in Lake Grace. They live in the town, with some buying houses … They volunteer and contribute to the community. I'm the largest employer in Lake Grace …</para></quote>
<para>This is what Labor's ban is going to do to Western Australian communities. It's going to rip the guts out of them, and the best this Prime Minister can do is make a joke about the name. I say: keep the sheep!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Education</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the Aborigines Advancement League in my home state of Victoria, I recently brought together Victorian First Nations leaders for an education roundtable with my friend and colleague Minister Clare. We know that the best outcomes for community only come by listening and working with mob. Leaders outlined challenges facing First Nations children and adolescents in the education sector, including broad systemic issues such as racism and a lack of cultural safety. I thank the participants of the roundtable for their honest and raw insights and for their stories.</para>
<para>As consistently highlighted by many of the mob there, racism in schools is a common experience for our kids, and it is utterly unacceptable. We need cultural safety training in schools, we need more Aboriginal teachers and we need a curriculum that is based on truth-telling so we have an agreed and shared understanding of our history in this nation. This will go some way towards reducing the racism that Aboriginal children experience in schools. Aboriginal community controlled care and education centres are leading the charge, working with and developing the minds of First Nations young people in an environment where our babies' identities are celebrated. I thank them for everything they do. Their work is crucial to supporting the development of the next generation of leaders for our mob.</para>
<para>The earliest years of a child's life are the building blocks for their long-term mental, physical, social and cognitive health. We know that if we get them right we can positively shape the future of that child's life. Access to culturally appropriate care and education is not simply important but necessary to support our children during their formative years. In a world that constantly talks about First Nations people in terms of deficits and challenges, I want to change the narrative and talk about our successes. I will continue to highlight Blak excellence in this place and wherever else I can, especially when it comes to our young people. I want them to have the very best start in life and know they deserve to have access to the best education.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Personal Information and Privacy</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the break, opposition leader Peter Dutton joined Prime Minister Anthony Albanese to support a uniparty age ban of 16 on social media. When Minister Gallagher introduced the digital ID, she promised that every Australian over 16 would need a digital ID and that it would be voluntary. The ink was not dry on that legislation when the uniparty advanced this idea for a compulsory social media age limit, a simple idea raising many red flags. The issue is not who signs into social media; the issue is who's using the account. This requires the device camera to always be on, to check the user's image against their digital ID to prevent, for instance, younger siblings from taking over the session. Penalties for spreading misinformation, or opinions, as they used to be called, can then be levied against the correct person, with a photo of you making the post to prove it was you.</para>
<para>The uniparty campaign to stamp out wrong-think on social media will require a camera in every adolescent's bedroom, running every moment their computer, tablet or phone is in use. Hacking into cameras is easy. This proposal will be a paedophile's paradise and will increase crimes against children. Using social media in public— cafes, public transport, shops—will be a nightmare. Social media companies will need to run artificial intelligence to work out which image is the person operating the device and which is someone in the background.</para>
<para>To answer the question, 'Is this person over 16?' will require every Australian's biometric data. Who knows what else this identification and surveillance AI will do without our knowledge? The uniparty that introduced this bill under Mr Morrison and passed it under Mr Albanese will produce unintended consequences that far outweigh any benefit. One Nation believes in the primacy of parents over the state. Parents must be free to raise their children as they choose, not as the government dictates.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government has abandoned Tasmania by failing to fund critical projects in its latest budget. Even the local Labor member of Lyons told media that he was 'blindsided' by the Albanese government's failure to fund the Greater South East Immigration Scheme, a project critical to addressing water shortages for producers of high-value agricultural products in Tasmania.</para>
<para>The Tasmanian government is investing in this project. Under the coalition government, the federal government has a long track record of supporting and funding the irrigation projects put forward by Tasmania because we know the benefits they bring for jobs and investment in our state. But when I asked at Senate estimates a couple of weeks ago why this critical project to support our producers and better utilise water resources hadn't been funded, government officials claimed they weren't sure if the project fits with 'broader government priorities'. Senator McAllister, the representing minister at the table, said that the government had 'deferred making a decision on this project at this time' and the project would have to wait for a future budget process to be considered.</para>
<para>This is simply not good enough. The result of this decision is that a critical project, which will be the difference between producers in Tasmania having access to water or not in future growing seasons, will now be delayed. Tasmania is being let down again and again by this Albanese government, and as for its Labor member for Lyons, who wasn't even across the status of the project and has allowed his colleagues in Canberra to brush it off to a later date, I think Senator McAllister said it best when I asked at estimates how it was possible that the Labor MP could be blindsided by what wasn't in a Labor budget in his own electorate. Senator McAllister's response on behalf of Mr Mitchell? She said, 'His own contribution speaks for itself'. We couldn't agree more. His complete lack of awareness that the Albanese government was going to let down farmers in the electorate in the budget certainly speaks for itself.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gondarra, Reverend Dr, OAM, First Nations Australians: Maternity Care</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to bring to the attention of the Senate the passing of Reverend Dr Gondarra, a prominent Yolgnu elder and leader. He was an incredible man, a very strong leader who fought for justice, truth-telling and treaty. He advocated for his people and had immense pride in Yolgnu language, law and culture. While Chairman of the Arnhem Land Progress Association for over 30 years, he created economic opportunities for his community through stores, employment and community services. His legacy is significant and will reverberate across Arnhem Land, the Northern Territory and, indeed, Australia. I share in the grief being experienced by his community, and I offer my sincere condolences to his family. I thank his family for welcoming me, in their time of grief, to join with them as we respected and celebrated the memory of this amazing man.</para>
<para>I had visited Galiwin'ku to attend the Yota Dokitji event. This was a special opportunity to learn more about the project: its achievements, current challenges and future aspirations. First Nations women and their babies experience poorer health outcomes compared to non-Indigenous mothers and their babies. The rate of preterm birth experienced by First Nations mothers is almost double that of non-Indigenous mothers—14.1 per cent in First Nations mothers compared with 7.9 per cent. We know the importance of community led and culturally safe maternity care. The djakamirr model of care is an exceptional example of birthing on country.</para>
<para>I thank the Molly Wardaguga Institute for First Nations Birth Rights within the Charles Darwin University for collaborating with community on this project. To each and every djakamirr and those who are currently training, thank you for your work and your care and for your love for our babies born on country.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Lawrence, Mr Mick</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, in the Australian Senate, I take note of the sad passing of Mick Lawrence, a venerable elder, leader and statesman amongst Tasmanian surfers. Mick passed away suddenly on Wednesday 12 June. He was a proud champion surfer, filmmaker, author, environmentalist, father, husband and so much more. Mick was also an inspiration. He was a surf pioneer, a president of professional sporting body Surfing Tasmania and marine conservation group Surfrider Foundation Tasmania. He was a mentor and true friend to so many young Tasmanians.</para>
<para>I first met Mick campaigning against the proposed Gunns pulp mill in Northern Tasmania that would have spewed 30 billion litres of toxic waste into the ocean every year. Mick, in recent years, championed many other environmental causes, including raising awareness of the pollution impacts on our waterways by the toxic industrial salmon farming industry and stopping dangerous seismic blasting and oil and gas drilling in our oceans. Mick's message—his leadership to myself and many others—was that his tribe, surfers, needed to stand up and be counted and needed to be vocal to protect our oceans and our coastlines.</para>
<para>My condolences to his wife, Robyn, family, friends and all those in the community who are mourning the loss of this magnificent man. The Tasmanian surfing community has, indeed, lost a legend—the father, the king of groms. Vale, Mick Lawrence.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>United States of America</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In a week's time, a political commentator in the United States, Steven Bannon, faces four months jail for contempt of Congress. While this is a criminal charge, it's something that has rarely, or never, led to imprisonment for those who have offended against it. In another case in the last year, Peter Navarro, a former economic adviser to President Trump, has also been imprisoned for the same cause. Of course, in just a matter of weeks, Mr Trump himself, the major opposition leader in the United States, is facing jail.</para>
<para>I do not normally comment on matters in other countries, but the situation in the United States is special because the United States help underpin the rules based order which helps protect us all, yet of course they are not normally subject to those rules as much because they write the rules themselves. But its breach of basic principles of democratic competition and free and fair elections is undermining that so-called rules based order. If this were occurring in any other country or if any other country saw the imprisonment of the major opposition leader just months from an election, there would be calls for an international intervention and observers. But that is not happening in the United States. While we are great friends of that country—and I count myself as one of those—I think it is also incumbent on us to warn of the situation that is emerging there. Far from being a beacon of democracy, the United States is turning into a warning bell for other nations of what not to do and how not to corrupt a democratic process that requires free and open competition of political ideas to allow the settlement of political disputes through that process. I hope there is a free and fair presidential election later this year and our friendship with the United States can last many more decades further.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Nuclear Energy</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week I had the privilege of visiting Tellus's state-of-the-art low-level waste storage facility at Sandy Ridge. This is near Kalgoorlie in my home state of Western Australia. Until now, it has been a well-kept secret that this operational facility is Australia's first commercial geological repository. It has a strong social licence from the local community. Tellus's facility offers the safest geological conditions in the world in which to safely store radioactive waste. Currently it is storing waste for Australian mining, oil and gas, and health industries. The Sandy Ridge facility demonstrates Australian companies are ready and capable to lead the expansion in nuclear energy safety measures, including safe storage.</para>
<para>So it is somewhat puzzling to me—I don't understand it—why Defence has decided to spend tens of millions, probably hundreds of millions, building a new low-level nuclear waste storage facility at HMAS Stirling when we already have an operational, state-of-the-art facility in Western Australia. In fact, it makes me wonder why they aren't planning to send all of their low-level nuclear or radiological waste to this facility instead of storing it at multiple bases around the nation.</para>
<para>As WA becomes the home of AUKUS nuclear powered submarines from 2027, we not only have the opportunity to lead the nation in new technologies and industries for many decades to come with nuclear power generation but can now also be the home, in the most geologically stable part of the world, in fact, to store this waste. We are already doing it. It's nothing new. I would encourage any colleague from this place who is interested in that, including Senator Shoebridge, to come to Western Australia and see this waste disposal facility.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Refugee Week</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week was world Refugee Week. During the week, I had the good fortune of meeting with multicultural groups from across the country. The message I kept hearing was very, very similar. They feel utterly betrayed by the Albanese Labor government. Maybe Labor, which has been in denial about the extent to which it's burnt its connections with multicultural Australia, even through the political spin that Labor has been putting, has slightly heard that message, because this week it has not brought on Labor's Trumpian travel ban and refugee bill. They have not brought it onto the floor of this chamber, thank goodness.</para>
<para>That's a bill that's designed to break connections between diaspora communities here and their communities back home in their countries of origin. Entire countries are proposed to be banned from accessing Australia, separating families, loved ones, communities, business links and student links. Also, it proposes to send people to jail for a minimum of one year if they don't cooperate with the government on their own deportation. I can't tell you how angry multicultural Australia is with this most recent betrayal from the Albanese Labor government. What is extraordinary is that Labor, with all of the resources and powers of the Commonwealth government, all the arms it can twist and all the financial levers it has, could not get a single organisation in the entire country to put in a submission to back its bill. It is a right stinker. Maybe, just maybe, Labor is hearing that.</para>
<para>I want to thank the communities in particular that I met down in Melbourne, the Hazara, Tamil, Iranian, Kurdish, Sikh, Palestinian and Bangladeshi communities. For all of them and the refugees and communities they support, let's win this and let's get this miserable government to finally kill the bill.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women: Incarceration</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This Wednesday the Parliamentary Friends of Justice group is hosting an event made up entirely of women with lived experience of the carceral system from Sisters Inside and the National Network of Incarcerated and Formerly Incarcerated Women and Girls. I encourage everyone to come along, because, as the nation looks to tackle gendered violence, remember that this country is actively locking up those most impacted by this violence, with 98 per cent of incarcerated women having histories of victimisation and trauma and up to 73 per cent having acquired brain injuries.</para>
<para>Incarceration rates of women and girls rose by 64 per cent in the last decade, and those criminalised are already facing violence, inadequate health care and housing, unemployment, poverty, mental health issues and, notably, disability. The disability royal commission in 2021 found that 15 per cent of people in prison have an intellectual disability. The Australian Centre for Disability Law estimated that, of First Peoples charged with criminal offences—listen to this—95 per cent have an intellectual disability, a cognitive impairment or a mental illness. This overrepresentation is a clear sign of the lack of adequate support available for people in the community, and further cuts to NDIS support will only exacerbate the issue—shame. The government is now talking about reducing support to those from prison, which is also a death-in-custody report recommendation that they won't implement. They want to keep our people incarcerated. So the NDIS needs to look after those in prison.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care: Women</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is said that only women and a few toothed whales experience menopause, so you'd think that, for something so rare and for creatures so special, it would be paid a bit more attention. At the very least, we should be able to talk about it without cringing, yet, despite half the human population experiencing menopause, it remains an uncomfortable and taboo subject.</para>
<para>During the Senate inquiry into menopause, many women have recounted feeling scared, confused and even traumatised by their symptoms and their experiences when seeking medical help. Through the course of the hearing and evidence we have heard so far, the women speaking have given evidence offering some very simple solutions: flexibility and awareness—two straightforward concepts that can be easily integrated pretty much anywhere. The women we listened to were seeking not special leave or anything to be done particularly differently but just some understanding and some awareness—maybe the option to work from home if dealing with insomnia or the comfort to take off your jacket when you're burning up, like I've had to do many times in this place, without being seen as disrespectful or judged as unprofessional.</para>
<para>We want GPs not to overlook the possibility of symptoms of menopause or perimenopause. The topic of menopause shouldn't be doom and gloom for women. Menopause isn't the end of useful life for women; it is a stage of life. I sincerely believe that, through this Senate inquiry and broader societal awareness, menopause will get the attention it deserves and that the 50 per cent of the population who experience it in the future will have a better experience than the generations before us and my own generation.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Friends of Nutrition</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to give a huge shout-out to the team at Dietitians Australia for hosting the Parliamentary Friends of Nutrition lunch box challenge here in Parliament House this morning. We also heard from Leanne Elliston, the CEO of Nutrition Australia ACT, about the importance of diet for our children in the first 2,000 days. There was also a fun side to the proceedings today. MP Dan Repacholi, Senator Richard Colbeck and MP Dai Le, as well as Tom from the media at Sky, put together a nutritious children's snack and lunch pack.</para>
<para>The big shout-out of the morning really goes to Sienna Kruger, who was the judge. She had a tough job. But, of course, who else would you expect to win but Dan Repacholi? Well done to him. He actually got a decorated banana for his effort. But it is a very serious topic that we should be prioritising. If we want to close the health gaps, whether you're in Central Australia, outback remote areas, the middle of Sydney or Tasmania, we need to ensure affordable and good food is available to all. I'll give a shout-out to our government for investing $11.8 million to develop and implement a national strategy for food security in remote First Nations communities.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will now move to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>42</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Renewable Energy</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. What is the total system cost of achieving the Anthony Albanese Labor government's 82 per cent renewable energy target by 2030?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is interesting that I should get a question on costs from the opposition—the nerve of these people! They announce a big energy policy, supposedly—a scam—and I don't think it actually stands up to the test of policy. Does it have any costs attached to it at all? No. Do they know how they'll roll it out? No.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But can you answer it?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash and Senator McKenzie!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Does anyone seem to agree with it? No, not many.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt! Order across the chamber! Senators, we are just a few minutes into question time. I have Senator Birmingham on his feet on a point of order, and I had to draw your attention to order on three or four occasions.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, Senator Cadell's question was quite specific, and, whilst a degree of latitude may be given to ministers to talk about other matters or indeed opposition policies, the minister was asked about government costings. This is the finance minister, and I ask you to, now more than a quarter of the way into the time allowed, draw her to the question asked by Senator Cadell.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will draw the minister back to the question. I will also make the point that I expect the minister to be heard in silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can understand that Senator Birmingham's a bit sensitive about the issue of costs. I imagine that, as a former finance minister, he must find it quite difficult to be a member of a party that launches a policy without any costings at all. I can assure the opposition that the price of continuing to proceed with renewable energy—which, as everyone in this place knows and accepts, is the cheapest form of energy—and of our continued steady rollout of renewables with firming capacity will be a lot less than whatever number you lot come up with whenever you get around to it.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Order! I've already had to draw the Senate back to order, particularly on my left. I asked for silence, and that is what I expect. Minister Gallagher, did you have anything further to add?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will add that the figure that's being peddled by those opposite, including by the Leader of the Opposition, of $1.5 trillion—they can come up with a figure for something that's not their policy, but they can't come up with a figure for theirs—is completely false. You are not telling the truth. And I would refer those opposite to the Integrated System Plan. The ISP has looked at the cost of rolling out our plan to 2050 and has come out with a figure of $121 billion.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cadell, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's not being able to give the answer to 2030, I would say. How much will your government be spending on loans, subsidies and equity for, and on underwriting, renewable energy projects and on enabling the infrastructure across Australia to achieve the 2030 target?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! Minister Gallagher.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Wow! They are a little bit sensitive, aren't they? Wouldn't it be good, Senator Cadell, if you'd brought this forensic line of questioning to your own policy? I'm sure you did in that quick phone call in the party room when people just dumped this plan—not thought through, no costs, no idea how to deliver it. Did you stand up and go, 'How much is this going to cost as we roll this out?' I can refer senators to the funding that's in the budget. In this budget we are investing an extra $22.5 million over the next decade to help make Australia a renewable energy superpower, including: $3.2 billion for ARENA to promote clean energy innovation; $1.7 billion for the Future Made in Australia Innovation Fund; and $6.7 billion for hydrogen production tax credits. There's funding for the Hydrogen Headstart program and the Capacity Investment Scheme, and this is in addition to the sensible investments we made in the last budget. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cadell, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, given you haven't been able to give a total system cost, aren't you being hypocritical—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Aren't you being hypocritical in applying a different standard to opposition policy than you are to your own? If you can't tell people how much your plans cost, why can you comment on ours?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do accept that it is hard to change a prewritten question on your feet in question time, but what I can say to those opposite and all in this debate, is that we know that nuclear reactors are more expensive. Nuclear energy will be more expensive. Households will pay more. They will get the bill. If we are to believe everything that you've already said today, the costs will be more, households will pay for it and the generations of the future will pay for it—if you can even get your policy agreed to. Our policy—our commonsense, steady policy—of rolling out renewables is better for households, better to address emissions, better for the climate and able to be delivered. Unlike yours, ours is costed. You have no costs; you can't give any detail about your fanciful plan—or supposed plan.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Can the minister please outline what cost-of-living relief the Albanese government is delivering for all Australians? I am particularly keen to hear about the measures that come into effect in just seven days time, including tax cuts for every Australian taxpayer, the Albanese Labor government's $300 energy bill relief, and wage rises for low-paid workers, backed by the government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Marielle Smith from my home state of South Australia for that great question. The senator is right; the Albanese Labor government is delivering for every Australian because we are a government for all Australians. On 1 July, in just seven days, every Australian taxpayer gets a tax cut. All 13.6 million Australian taxpayers get a tax cut in seven days. The average tax cut is nearly $1,900 year—36 bucks extra per week in your pocket. Unlike those opposite, we want Australians to earn more and keep more of what they earn.</para>
<para>What we know is Peter Dutton and the Liberals and the Nationals want you to work longer for less. We hear a lot about aspiration from the other side, but we understand aspiration doesn't just start at the top tax bracket. That's why our tax cuts travel all the way up the income scale. We on this side are also backing wage rises for low-paid workers. Nearly 2.6 million workers get their third consecutive pay rise backed by the Albanese Labor government. From next Monday we are also supporting every household with $300 in energy relief—another policy from Albanese Labor government. Around one million small businesses will receive $325 off their bills—another cost-of-living policy from the Albanese Labor government. What have we got from those opposite? Those opposite want to serve up the most expensive form of energy there is in two decades' time. That's their answer to how to deal with the cost of living and energy supply—to go for the most expensive form of energy. It won't deliver for two decades, and do you know what? Mr Dutton won't tell Australians how much his nuclear reactors are going to cost. <inline font-style="italic">(Time </inline><inline font-style="italic">expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. It's really great that Labor is cutting taxes for all Australian taxpayers, not just some, as the opposition had intended. Can you please outline the benefits for all households, in particular for families, and those in our home state of South Australia especially?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith would know that we're also freezing the cost of PBS items from 1 July, delivering stronger Medicare and cheaper medicines. She would also know that, from Monday, paid parental leave increases to 22 weeks and that we are delivering HECS relief for everyone with student debt and increasing Commonwealth rent assistance for nearly a million households.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Henderson!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Families with children will pocket an average of more than $3,000 next financial year from our tax cuts.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson! Twice I've called you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know, Senator Henderson, that you don't like families getting more tax cuts. I know you don't like that. But we actually think it's a good idea.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, I called you twice and you ignored me, and in fact your voice got louder every single time. You are being incredibly—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are not in a debate with me, Senator Henderson. You are being incredibly disrespectful, and I request that you listen in silence. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Families with children: an average of more than $3,000 next financial year. And it's not just families. No taxpayer will miss out. I can tell Senator Smith that in South Australia that's about 900,000 people, and nine out of 10 of those South Australians will get a bigger tax cut under us.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Parliament of Papua New Guinea</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call Senator Smith for a second supplementary question, I draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the chamber of a delegation from the National Parliament of Papua New Guinea, led by the Speaker, the Hon. Job Pomat. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a particularly warm welcome to Australia and of course to the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for your answer, Minister. Could you please tell the Senate more about the Albanese Labor government's power price relief and why the government is delivering renewables that will secure the clean, cheap, reliable and resilient energy system that Australians deserve?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome our friends from Papua New Guinea and say how much we appreciated the hospitality last week.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government is delivering power bill relief now. We all remember how those opposite have consistently opposed power bill relief and raised concerns about who is paying for it, as Senator Henderson said.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And they're still yelling about it now. It's really fascinating, isn't it? These people talk about the cost of living, but when they come in here they're not prepared to back it. And not only are they not prepared to back bill relief; they actually want to make power more expensive, by backing a policy, a technology, that will deliver the most expensive power. Worse, it would delay action for 20 years, thereby ensuring continuation of the same fragility of supply as a consequence of their inaction and their division. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Wong. How much have Australian household energy bills increased since the Albanese government was elected promising a $275 power price cut?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, $300 less as a consequence of the price relief that we put in place that you don't support.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And I hear the interjections on that side about why that's a bad idea. They really don't learn, do they? That you want to come in here and talk about cheaper energy bills after you have opposed energy price relief is really galling to Australians. You can't pretend that you care about cost of living if you're not prepared to back in the policies that are about dealing with people's cost-of-living pressures. That's the reality.</para>
<para>From the experts it is clear that renewables are the cheapest form of new energy, far cheaper than the nuclear fantasy that you are adopting—an expensive plan which will ensure more delays, less supply in the interim and higher costs for Australians. That's what it means.</para>
<para>What I would say to those opposite is that you trashed the energy system as a consequence of 22 policies in government, where 24 out of 28—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Duniam.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Duniam</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I raise a point of order on relevance. I was asking the minister exactly how much power prices have increased since the ill-fated promise. We haven't heard one sentence on that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Duniam. I am happy to draw the minister back to the question, but I will also remind senators that, if you interject, the senator—whoever is answering—is entitled to take those interjections, and there were lots of interjections, which Minister Wong also addressed, which she's entitled to do. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, there's a $300 energy bill rebate to every household and additional energy relief to small businesses. But I would say this: what we know is that under those opposite 24 out of 28 coal-fired power stations announced closures. How many people sought to enter the system? Almost zilch, if any. Do you know why? It was because your division and your inaction and your internal fights and your anti-renewables obsession made sure that the market had no certainty. It had no certainty, and—do you know what?—you're still at it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wonder if the minister can try and tell us whether household energy bills are going to go up or down under a re-elected Albanese Labor government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the interjection from Senator Ruston, who says, 'They'll just use taxpayers' money to subsidise bills,' because she's still opposed to the bill relief. It's amazing, isn't it? They just don't learn. You're prepared to spend billions of dollars on nuclear over 20 years, but you don't want working Australians to get cost relief on their bills. What sorts of priorities does the Liberal Party have? What has happened to the Liberal Party? The Liberal Party is the party that wants to subsidise an expensive technology which will deliver in 20 years but wants to fight tooth and nail against giving $300 to Australian families and Australian households. It says something about your priorities.</para>
<para>We on this side are very clear. We will ensure that we continue to transform this system in accordance with the best advice and not engage in the ideological wars that you are engaged in that increase costs for Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just in the last week the Australian Energy Market Operator warned:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… there is the potential for gas supply shortfalls due to the depletion of southern storage inventories …</para></quote>
<para>The operator also warned:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the supply of gas in all or part of the east coast gas system may be inadequate to meet demand.</para></quote>
<para>How will Labor's renewables-only energy plan help to plug these energy shortfalls and reduce electricity prices right now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's talk about what AEMO has said. Let's talk about the fact that AEMO, the Australian Energy Market Operator, has said that the lowest-cost plan for a reliable energy grid is Australia's world-leading renewables, like solar and wind, firmed with batteries, pumped hydro, flexible gas and transmission reform. That is AEMO's advice, but you don't want to listen to them. You want to go down some path that John Howard tried to go down over 20 years ago when he looked at how much a domestic nuclear industry would cost, and then prime minister Howard determined then that it would be too expensive and it would take too long.</para>
<para>Now Peter Dutton—here he is again!—is trying to come up with a plan that even John Howard rejected. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Grocery Prices</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Minister Gallagher. Minister, isn't it the case that implementing a mandatory code of conduct will help redress the power imbalance between supermarkets and their suppliers but will do nothing at all to bring down the cost of food and groceries for Australian shoppers? Do you agree with the chair of the ACCC that increasing competition in Australia's supermarket sector would mean cheaper food and groceries for Australian shoppers? If you do agree with the chair of the ACCC, why won't Labor support the Greens' divestiture bill to create powers to break up the supermarket duopoly and bring down food and grocery prices for Australia's shoppers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McKim for the question. We don't agree with the Greens political party's policy on divestment. We have approached the issue around supermarket prices with a focus on using a range of interventions to ensure that consumers, those people who go and do their shopping at the supermarket, have the information they need. If you saw the CHOICE report that was released last week—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It showed that, if you do shop around, you can find savings on your supermarket bills. I think also that Woolworths' and Coles' response to that was interesting because it showed that they were looking at that report and they were responding to that report.</para>
<para>So increased information, transparency and funding CHOICE in order to provide that information to consumers are an important part of our plan. But we also, as you indicated, announced today the mandatory food and grocery code and the response to the Emerson <inline font-style="italic">Food and grocery code of conduct review</inline>. Our changes will ensure that supermarkets are competitive and that both consumers and producers get a fair deal. Of course, it is, as I said, part of a broader competition reform agenda, which can't be seen in isolation. So we've got the ACCC conducting an inquiry into supermarket prices, we've got the CHOICE report, we're increasing penalties for anticompetitive conduct, we've banned unfair contract terms and we've got some work underway on mergers reform. This is all part of making sure that we are doing what we can to ease Australians' cost-of-living pressures and ensure that they are getting the best outcome for their dollar, including that farmers get a good and fairer deal— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, will the government work with the Greens to make corporate price gouging illegal, or are you content to keep pushing out reports that tell people what they already know: that they're being ripped off by big corporations and you're going to do nothing about it? Why won't Labor make corporate price gouging illegal in Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McKim for the supplementary. It is illegal for businesses to fix prices or collude with other businesses.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is also illegal for businesses to mislead customers about pricing. The ACCC is already inquiring at our instigation—we are the first government to do so—into supermarket prices, and we will consider their recommendations. I would also note that, in terms of the Greens political party's policy on divestiture, which some over there have dabbled with and are dancing with as well, Dr Emerson looked at this in his review and he found that it could actually make things worse, not better. He wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If forced divestiture resulted in a supermarket selling some of its stores to another large incumbent supermarket chain, the result could easily be greater market concentration.</para></quote>
<para>It's a classic Greens response. Go for the headline; don't do the hard work that actually underpins and makes the change.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, will Labor commit to rejecting political donations from supermarket corporations who have made billions in crisis profits by price gouging Australian shoppers? Will you back in Australian shoppers who are being price gouged, or will you back in the interests of the price gouging supermarket corporations who donate to the Labor Party?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, as I'm sure you know, that is not a question that goes specifically to the minister's responsibilities. I will, however, call the minister, and it is really her call as to which part of your question she answers or doesn't answer.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note this is a common second supplementary from the Greens political party, where they choose the corporations that they don't like as opposed to the ones that they do like. For the ones they don't like, they require a situation where no-one's allowed to accept their donations. You'll take donations from the gambling industry, but you won't take donations from others. My answer to this is the same as it always is. The insinuation that you make with that question is beneath you, and if you have a genuine—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Minister Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, I have let this go over three questions now, but there's a constant interjection from Senators McKim and Shoebridge when Senator Gallagher is on her feet, and I'd ask them to desist.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Wong. I have called the Senate to order, and I would respectfully remind senators once again—I'll call you to order—that you are asked to listen in respectful silence. Minister Gallagher?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There are Commonwealth laws around donations and providing donations through the electoral system. Our position is that all donations need to adhere to that legislation.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. In May you and the Treasurer made it clear that cost-of-living relief was your No. 1 priority when building the budget. We know Australians are feeling the pressure on their household budgets, and one of the key budget pressures for Australians is the weekly grocery shop and the cost of food at the supermarket. Can the minister please outline what the government is doing to address cost-of-living pressures, including at the supermarket checkout?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Walsh. I thank you for your question and for the focus that you bring to the cost of living and alleviating cost-of-living pressures on Australian households. We understand, very much, that Australians are under cost-of-living pressure and that a lot of that pressure is being felt at the checkout. Anyone who does their shopping has seen how prices have increased over the last 18 months. That's why we commissioned Dr Craig Emerson to review the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct to make sure it is protecting suppliers and encouraging a competitive grocery sector that delivers a fair deal for Australians.</para>
<para>The review found that the current voluntary code is failing to address the imbalance of bargaining power between supermarkets and their suppliers, including farmers, so we are acting immediately. We're strengthening the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct and accepting all recommendations of the independent review into the code. This will mean cracking down on anti-competitive behaviour in the supermarket sector so Australians get fairer prices at the checkout, including: making the code mandatory for all supermarkets with an annual Australian revenue of more than $5 billion; commissioning consumer group CHOICE to provide quarterly price reporting; strengthening formal and informal dispute resolution arrangements; introducing penalties for the more harmful breaches of the code, with the maximum penalty being the greatest of $10 million, three times the benefit gained from the contravening conduct or 10 per cent of turnover of the preceding 12 months; creating an anonymous supplier and whistleblower complaints mechanism within the ACCC; placing greater emphasis on addressing fear of retribution; and improving outcomes for suppliers of fresh produce.</para>
<para>This is all about getting a fair go for families at the checkout and a fair go for farmers for their produce. Our plan supports competition, puts downward pressure on prices and gives Australians more choice. This is what a government that's focused on the cost of living looks like in action through the work that we have been doing on— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. It's great to hear about how the government is prioritising cost-of-living relief for Australians. Another key budget measure was a $300 energy bill rebate for every Australian household and one million small businesses. Can the minister please explain why the government decided it was important to include this energy bill relief in the budget?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Walsh, for the supplementary. We know Australians are doing a tough, which is why we're not just acting on grocery prices. We are also looking at ways to ease household budgets, and the relief on energy bills does just that. We'll ensure that beneficiaries of our new energy rebates and our tax cuts are households right across Australia. Those come into effect in just seven days time. We're providing $3½ billion in new energy relief, starting on 1 July. Every Australian household will begin to see a $300 credit automatically applied to their electricity bills, and around one million small businesses will receive $325 off their bills over the 2024-25 year. This new power bill relief doubles the number of eligible households from five million to more than 10 million households.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. Energy bill relief will make a significant difference for households and small businesses in my home state of Victoria. Can the minister please explain why a move away from the government's plan to provide cleaner and cheaper energy for all Australians is a risk to every Australian household budget and will add to cost-of-living pressures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, the contrast couldn't be starker between our plan—our commitment to cleaner, cheaper energy for all Australians—and the risky nuclear reactor gamble of those opposite. From 1 July we're taking $300 off your power bill—real relief starting in seven days time. What are those opposite promising? In two decades—that's right, two decades, or 20 years—Mr Dutton, if it is left to him, will serve up the most expensive form of energy there is and then ask you to pay for it. Unlike those opposite, we understand power prices are a serious issue. Meanwhile, Mr Dutton won't tell Australians how much you'll pay to build his nuclear reactors, how much expensive nuclear reactors will add to your bill or how many nuclear reactors there will be in the Australian community. Meanwhile, the Smart Energy Council's analysis has shown that building the seven nuclear reactors could cost as much as $600 billion of taxpayers' money. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Digital ID Act 2024</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. The Digital ID Act was passed with the promise that it would not be compulsory, per section 74(1). Your act includes a provision that alternative methods of establishing identity must be provided, in section 74(1A). My electorate office is receiving complaints from members of the public who are being required to obtain a digital ID in order to, in one instance, get their own medical report as part of a job application. This was a real-world application, not an online application. Minister, what options are available to a person who is not offered an alternative method of identity verification, as the act requires? Where can people complain, and what penalties are imposed on an entity who fails to follow your legislation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Roberts for the question. As you'd know, Senator Roberts, the digital ID legislation has not come into effect yet. It doesn't come into effect until 1 December this year. Essentially, we've legislated the existing system, which was unregulated. That's what we've done with that legislation.</para>
<para>There is a requirement, in the legislation, to continue to provide alternative opportunities or ways for people to engage with government for their personal use. Of course, businesses already engaging with the tax office do use the myGovID system, but, for your personal use, the law is very clear that there must be alternative ways provided for the community to engage with government. That has been made very clear across government.</para>
<para>I would say that, if you want to forward me that constituent's issue, even if it's de-identified, I'd be very happy to look at it, but we have been very clear that it is a voluntary system, it is a safe system and it is a secure system. It's simply a means of verifying yourself in a way that gives you control of your own documentation. So, instead of having all your ID documents photocopied or emailed around the place, you are the one verifying your identity and you're able to hold those documents to yourself. It's actually a much safer way of engaging with government than paper based systems, and I am very hopeful that more people will take it up once the legislation and the regulator are in place. Of course, once that legislation is enacted, there will be a regulator. The ACCC will perform that role. So there would be the ability to make complaints and have those complaints investigated.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The entity responsible was the Queensland state government. Will you now instruct the Queensland Labor government to follow the legislation and ensure an alternative option is allowed or will you do so after the legislation is enacted?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The legislation does enable a national digital ID system, or ecosystem. There are private sector digital IDs and there are also state government versions. But what the legislation means is that those state governments can apply for accreditation through the national system, and we are hopeful that they will do that. In fact, in a meeting I had on Friday with states, they are all certainly indicating that they will be part of that national system. But, for a state based system which has its own processes for engaging on rates and other things, that is a matter for the Queensland government and would have to be taken up with the Queensland government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, was the failure to include penalties for not providing alternative verification options a failure of this government or was the imposition of a mandatory digital ID the plan all along?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The legislation is very clear. It's a voluntary system—that is, people, for their personal engagement with government, have the right to choose whether they use a digital ID or they use the more traditional way of engaging with government. In terms of penalties, the legislation does set up the ACCC as the regulator of the system. That would be the way that complaints and other issues would be assessed. So there is a system in place. I don't have the legislation right in front of me, but we were very clear that putting the digital ID ecosystem in legislation is actually about ensuring that it is safe and that consumers' needs are fundamental, are front and centre and are protected through a regulated system. At the moment, I have a digital ID, but it doesn't exist under a regulated system. All that the legislation did was take a lot of what's happening now outside of a regulated system and regulate it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement: Submarines</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Minister, under AUKUS the government is pursuing the acquisition of eight nuclear powered submarines. Are these submarines safe for Australian submariners and all who work on building and sustaining them?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to say, for a senior member of the coalition—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it's interesting that Senator Cash says that calling her a senior member of the coalition is demeaning. I didn't think that was, but I'll leave that to her. To use something as important as AUKUS, which has—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>May I finish? You asked the question, Senator Cash. To ask a question on a policy which was introduced by your government, which has bipartisan support, which goes to the national security and strategic circumstances of this nation, in order to try and utilise it in a domestic debate to cover up the shambles of a policy you have announced is really not befitting of a party that's serious about national security. It's not befitting. You and I both know—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Cash?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, the point of order is in relation to relevance. Whilst I know the Leader of the Government in the Senate likes to indulge in the odd personal attack, that was not what the question was. It was in relation to making sure Australians understand the government's position in relation to whether the eight nuclear powered submarines are actually safe for those working on them.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the minister is being relevant and I will continue to listen carefully.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to say that the quip about personal attacks, from a senior member of Peter Dutton's team, after the weekend—I don't know if that was an attempt at humour, but we thought it was quite amusing! Senator, you would be aware that, when the AUKUS position was announced, your then Prime Minister—and I'm not sure if you were in the National Security Committee at the time, but certainly the decision of your National Security Committee—</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">An honourable senator interjecting</inline>—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No. I just can't recall whether she was. Your Prime Minister, Prime Minister Morrison, announced the position of your government, which was that AUKUS would not involve the establishment of a civil nuclear industry. We very carefully went through the reasons for that. I look forward to— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, last week a number of government and Labor members of parliament posted social media messages, including the depiction of Australian cartoon character Blinky Bill with three eyes, suggesting that nuclear energy generation is unsafe. Will the minister denounce these acts and instruct Labor MPs to cease such juvenile behaviour?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not sure how that is supplementary to an AUKUS question, President.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, it does apply to you. Minister Wong has questioned whether that is a supplementary question to your first question, Senator Cash. I've sought the advice of the Clerk, and it is related to the first question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will make this point: if the senator wishes to talk about responsibility then perhaps the senator should reflect on utilising AUKUS, which is such a necessary and crucial aspect of our forward planning for the security of our nation, in a domestic political debate. We are working very hard—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston, if that was a personal reflection on the minister, I am going to ask you to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong has finished her answer. Senator Cash, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, won't nuclear scare campaigns make it harder to recruit the thousands of people that Australia needs to build, operate and sustain nuclear submarines? Why is the Prime Minister, with this 'lighten up' attitude, condoning the playing of politics with our national security needs?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right and my left!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, you have asked the question. I am waiting for silence before I call the minister.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What I would say to senior members of the coalition—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about junior members?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I love you too! What I would say to senior members of the coalition is we are very happy to have bipartisanship on the largest project that Australia has ever undertaken. It's the largest undertaking this country has ever undertaken both as a proportion of GDP and in nominal figures and in terms of the sheer scale of the task. I would have hoped that, despite whatever debate we have about energy, there might be some modicum of responsibility from the people who want to run this country on national security. But it is clear, as Mr Dutton was on the PM, that they have no line and they are prepared try to play politics with our national security. We are not. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, representing the Prime Minister. The opposition leader's nuclear fantasy is nothing but a massive distraction from the real work of keeping coal and gas in the ground. This is the only way to prevent a catastrophic climate breakdown over this critical decade. Given that both the government and the opposition are on a unity ticket on expanding the coal and gas industry and making the climate crisis worse, is this government rubbing its hands together on this fantasy-land nuclear distraction?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator, for the question. I would make a few points. The first is that we take the best advice we can from experts about the way we transition this economy, and in particular the energy grid, in a way that increases reliability of supply, increases supply and reduces emissions. I know that there will be aspects of what AEMO—the Energy Market Operator—or other experts say that don't accord with the Greens' position, but that is the advice we are given: how do we ensure that we reduce emissions from Australia's energy grid as part of our net-zero target approach in a way that ensures we increase the renewables supply, reduce costs and increase reliability? That is what we are doing.</para>
<para>You described the opposition's position as a fantasy. I have to say I think it's a blank cheque for a bad bet, because what it does is to say, 'We will subsidise a policy approach which might yield something in 20 years, and we won't even tell taxpayers what the cost of ensuring the most expensive power that we can find is.' We are very clear that what we want to do is to transition the grid and the whole of the Australian economy at the lowest cost we can to meet our 2030 target and our 2050 net-zero target, which I understood was bipartisan, and we think that is the most responsible approach. I appreciate that the Greens political party have different views about different energy sources. We will— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For generations, First Nations people in this country have been opposing coal and gas projects on their country. From the Tiwi Islands, Gamilaraay country, Nurrdalinji and Gunditjmara country, they have all been opposed to these climate-destroying projects, to protect and defend their country and their connection to it. This is a government that said it would listen to First Nations voices. When are you actually going to do that?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have a very clear, deep and personal commitment to listening to and engaging with First Nations communities, and we're very proud to have the members of our First Nations caucus with us. What I would say in terms of approvals—because I think this is an EPBC Act question—is that Ms Plibersek has made clear the importance of going through a process of discussion and negotiation with all parties as we look to what further reforms are required in these areas. I would also make the point—speaking in relation to your primary question—that this government has, in fact, approved some 54 renewable projects since we were elected. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the May 2022 election, this government told the Australian public it was serious about delivering on climate action. Minister, why has your government, then, produced two plans, the Future Gas Strategy and A Future Made in Australia, that have us baked into gas until 2070 and, in fact, look like a reheated version of the Morrison government's Gas-Fired Recovery policy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): With respect, Senator, that last comment is a throwaway political comment that actually has no basis in fact, and I don't think anybody looking at our policy approach would say that. I'm sorry. I know that it's part of the political strategy to try and make the two big parties the same, but, unfortunately, here the facts do get in the way. What I have said very clearly, and what has been said by the Prime Minister and, more recently on this issue, the climate change minister, we look to what the best way, the most efficient way, is to transition our economy to meet what are very ambitious—and they are ambitious. And it might be that, in some world, you could theoretically somehow get to net zero or a 43 per cent reduction or two in excess of 80 per cent renewables in the grid by just announcing it, but we have the hard work of making sure we deliver policies that enable that transition at the lowest cost to Australian— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wages</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Minister Watt. Since taking office the Albanese Labor government has been focused on getting wages moving and easing cost-of-living pressures after a decade-long race to the bottom on wages under the Liberals and Nationals. How is the Albanese Labor government ensuring Australian workers earn more and keep more of what they earn?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Sheldon, who, along with many senators on this side of the chamber, including our new senator, Senator Darmanin, has spent his working life standing up for working people in this country. Under Labor people are earning more and keeping more of what they earn. We are delivering for every Australian because we are a government for all Australians. Today it is seven days until 1 July. And why does that matter? Because it's seven days until every Australian taxpayer gets a tax cut, it's seven days until our $300 energy bill relief begins, and it's seven days until 2.6 million low-paid workers get their third consecutive pay rise backed by this government.</para>
<para>We are providing cost-of-living support while putting downward pressure on inflation. We're also strengthening the food and grocery code for a fair go for families and farmers. Unlike the opposition, we believe that strong wages growth is a key part of providing cost-of-living relief. We have closed loopholes that undercut wages and working conditions for working Australians. We've modernised our bargaining system to get wages moving again, especially for those in feminised industries. We've backed in pay rises for workers on the minimum wage and awards at the Fair Work Commission three times since coming to government. Because of the Albanese government's wages, wage growth is above the rate of inflation at 3.6 per cent over the year, which is expected to continue. The gender pay gap is also at a record low of 12 per cent. Almost 880,000 jobs have been created under this government, around 250,000 of which were full-time jobs for women. Of course, that contrasts with the previous coalition government, which kept wages low as a deliberate design feature of their economic architecture. The coalition never once backed in pay rises for minimum wage and award earners, and now, in opposition, the coalition has voted against almost every one of our workplace relations measures to ease cost-of-living pressures for Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that answer, Minister. Given the Liberals and Nationals have suggested that asking for a real pay rise for low-paid workers is just, as they say, 'window-dressing', how is the Albanese government supporting all Australians, including our lowest paid workers, address cost-of-living pressures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This government's workplace relations agenda is helping Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn with secure jobs, better pay and safer workplaces. We're also addressing the pressures that people are facing at the check-out by strengthening the Food and Grocery Code of Conduct and establishing an ACCC review into supermarket behaviour. For too long we've seen big supermarkets take advantage of farmers right across the country, not provide them with a fair price, but then actually charge consumers much more than they're actually paying farmers. We're fixing this by making the code of conduct mandatory and by introducing fines of up to $10 million for each breach. The coalition, who claim to be the friends of farmers, had 10 years to fix this, but they did nothing. And when our lowest paid workers get a pay rise, Barnaby Joyce dismisses it as mere 'window-dressing'. Whether it's farmers or families, Peter Dutton and the coalition want Australians to work longer for less. Under Labor, Australians are earning more and keeping more of what they earn.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, I do remind you: when referring to others in the other place, use their correct titles. Senator Sheldon, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As you point out, $110 extra in the minimum wage increase is mere window-dressing for some but is food on the table for many. I know that the Liberals and Nationals were committed to a targeted package of repeals to the government's workplace relations changes and an expensive energy policy that won't deliver much-needed cost-of-living relief for two decades. How will the Albanese government reforms help Australians earn more and keep more of what they earn, while relieving cost-of-living pressures, and why are these reforms so important? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government's No. 1 focus is easing the cost-of-living pressures for Australians. After a decade of deliberate wage stagnation and suppression under the coalition, our changes have helped deliver faster-than-expected annual real wage growth to workers while also targeting inflation. We're also taking $300 off household power bills and investing in renewables, which are the cheapest form of energy, and getting more renewables in our power system will bring prices down.</para>
<para>In contrast, Mr Dutton wants Australians to pay more for his risky nuclear reactors and pay more for their power. Even though we saw Senator Davey make a valiant attempt to stand up for communities opposed to reactors, they will be imposed on them anyway. These reactors cost a lot more than renewables. They take longer to build, and, at the end of it, family power bills will be even higher. We know that the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Birmingham, knows that. Over the weekend he was quoted as saying that renewables have become more cost competitive. Good on you, Senator Birmingham. You're on the right path. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Uranium</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, Industry and Science, Senator Farrell. What percentage of the world's uranium deposits are located in Australia, and what percentage of global uranium does Australia supply?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his question. I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head. I'm very happy to speak to the minister for resources to get those accurate figures. I am aware that South Australia has very significant levels of uranium, and I'm very pleased to hear that it looks like BHP is taking some steps to increase its extraction of uranium, gold and copper.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Safely, I hope.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I'm sure it will be a safe extraction. But, no, South Australia does have significant amounts of uranium, and of course we export that uranium safely to the world.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister, noting in particular the minister's reference to BHP Billiton's expansion plans for Olympic Dam, as well as other aspirations, including for the uranium industry in Western Australia. Does the minister wish to see more Australian uranium mined and used around the world?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, I was just getting an answer to your previous question, Senator Birmingham. Could you repeat that last question so I can hear it again? We produce 28 per cent—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you take your seat, Senator Farrell, I'll get Senator Birmingham to repeat the last piece, which was about exporting uranium, I think.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. I can repeat the supplementary question for Senator Farrell. He can, of course, add to his answer at the conclusion of question time, which will be as soon as he finishes, too. The question was whether the minister wishes to see more Australian uranium mined and more Australian uranium used around the world.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome that answer by the minister. The Minerals Council of Australia have stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's strong global reputation for non-proliferation and its world-class uranium industry, which includes almost a third of global uranium reserves and supplies around 10 per cent of global uranium used for zero-emissions electricity, positions it well to lead in nuclear energy development.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is time to move beyond outdated anti-nuclear sentiments.</para></quote>
<para>Does the minister disagree with any aspects of the MCA's statement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his second supplementary question. The reason we have a ban on nuclear energy in this country is not anything that the Labor Party has done in government. It's as a result of a grubby, grubby deal by former prime minister John Howard to get the GST through the parliament. We have a ban on nuclear energy; the Labor Party will continue with that ban. The Labor Party will continue with the policy— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Nuclear Energy</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to Senator Birmingham's question—I think he might've answered it in one of his supplementary questions—is that we have 28 per cent of the world's resources of uranium.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>54</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>All Coalition Questions</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of all answers given to all coalition questions today.</para></quote>
<para>Unfortunately, we got a typical example in this place of a non-question time, non- answer time in this place where we didn't get answers to serious questions that were put here in this place. We want to have a serious debate when it comes to the future of our energy system. Peter Dutton, the Leader of the Opposition, is putting forward a serious plan that requires a serious debate on whether or not Australia should have nuclear energy as part of its mix. But, unfortunately, this government is—as we saw in question time—not able to answer questions or not prepared to answer the questions when asked about the costs of their own policies, or when asked about the safety of nuclear energy when it comes to the submarines that we are going to have some mariners work alongside of and, indeed, for those that are going to be on these vessels—actually travelling in and working in them. We're not getting answers, and it is unacceptable.</para>
<para>We know that Australia's energy system is at a crisis. We have seen reports, even today, that if things don't go well over this winter, we're going to have a shortage of gas, which would mean that we would see a significant reduction in the generation of power to keep our lights on. This is all happening under this government's watch because they are pursuing a folly. They are pursuing a folly when it comes to an all-renewable energy program. We know that that's not practical. We are an 'all of the above' policy people. We are looking to have a mixture of renewables and gas, and a future that will have zero-emissions nuclear that will replace the coal plants that will come offline into the future. But this government is not taking this issue seriously. We saw the very good announcement by the Leader of the Opposition and the shadow minister for energy, Ted O'Brien. When that announcement was made, what did we see from this lot over here, opposite us here today? What did we see? We saw them put up memes on their social media of three-eyed fish and three-eyed koalas. I mean, this is ridiculous. What Australia needs is a proper debate. Not only are their plans unaffordable; they're unworkable. You could have all the energy storage in the world. You could have all the batteries that you could possibly have. You could have all the hydro that you could possibly build. But if you don't have the reliable power generation to even be able to charge those things, then over time—let's say you get a run of cloudy days or a run of windless days—you won't be able to recharge. So, you need to have that reliable energy generation.</para>
<para>Nuclear provides emissions-free, reliable, safe and cost-effective generation of power that will be part of the mix. That's what we're providing. We've got confidence in this, because the rest of the world is pursuing it. We're the only one of 20 developed countries in the world that either don't have nuclear energy or aren't pursuing a nuclear energy future. Australia is being left behind and, frankly, the rest of the world are scratching their heads and wondering, why is Australia not doing this? So, instead of putting up ridiculous, juvenile memes, why don't you come in here with facts and have a serious debate so we can decide to pursue a future that provides reliability and cost-effective energy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Isn't it amusing? Those opposite are espousing a policy that will give us a budget black hole, will actually turn it around, but the only thing the nuclear plan will achieve is exactly that: a budget black hole. The coalition's pledge to build seven different sites with multiple nuclear reactors is part of a controversial energy plan that will cost taxpayers $600 billion plus whilst supplying just 3.7 per cent of Australia's energy mix by 2050, according to the Smart Energy Council. That's what they're suggesting: an absolutely ludicrous proposition that will not only cost hundreds of billions of dollars, be more expensive, cost every taxpayer—every energy user, every small business, every large business, those that employ people across this country—more for electricity but will also cost billions upon billions of dollars.</para>
<para>Let's look at some of the facts as put by the opposition just a moment ago. Mr Dutton, the opposition leader, claims that his nuclear reactor would produce waste equivalent to a can of Coke each year. Now, either he's guzzling soda by the gallon or he's ignoring the experts who warn that these reactors could churn out as much as six tonnes of radioactive waste annually, or Emeritus Professor Ian Lowe of Griffith University's School of Environment and Science, who said that it is 'safe to say that a small modular reactor would generate many tonnes of waste per year' and it is likely that 'that waste would be more radioactive than the waste from a large-scale reactor'.</para>
<para>Here they are, costing hundreds of billions of dollars. Here they are putting forward a proposition that will cost more for electricity for every business person and every consumer in this country. But also they're coming in with flippant comments about what the actual facts are. It's not a can of Coke; it's a guzzling opportunity for them to turn around and make an absolute mess of what's happening in nuclear energy policy in this country.</para>
<para>Nuclear reactors by Dutton are the only thing more mysterious than Area 51. They're proposing a whole series of policies of which they won't actually tell us the details—it's for a later date; it's for another opportunity. Meanwhile they're suppressing the opportunity for renewables. That's their intent: to cause chaos in the market. They don't care, because this is all about them winning government. This is not a policy based on facts. This is not a policy based on what's better for the community. It's not a policy about bringing energy prices down. It's a fact that they had 22 energy policies in the 10 years they were in government, and they failed to deliver and land one of them. This is purely a factional deal and a coalition deal, which they still can't get right, because they're still arguing about it. This policy is the halfway mark of trying to work out yet another energy policy. I think it's No. 23, but, heaven forbid, it could even be No. 24. This policy is a lot like swiss cheese, only it's twice as smelly and with many more holes. This policy is a leaking bucket. It's full of holes, dripping money and leaving us all high and dry.</para>
<para>While on this side we've been committed to delivering clean, affordable electricity, the Leader of the Opposition's fixation on his nuclear fantasy and slowing down renewables would slap Australians with an extra $1,000 a year in their energy bills. Energy analysts have told <inline font-style="italic">Guardian</inline>Australia that slowing the rollout of renewables and relying more heavily on gas in the 10 to 15 years before nuclear power could be introduced could increase Australian energy bills by $1,000 a year. So they want a price hike on energy bills. The Liberals and Nationals are confused over their own lines. The Liberals and Nationals can't even nail down their own position, let alone provide crucial details for Australians. The Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Simon Birmingham, spoke in favour of renewables, saying they'd become more cost competitive in their own right and are an important part of the mix. That's while we're hearing something directly opposite from those in the National Party. The coalition can't sort their act out. This is a political stunt.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What we just heard is more bluster. What we just heard is more spin. What we heard is more scare. We only want to hear two things from the other side. One is: what is the total system cost of your plan by 2030? They can't give us that. Why? Because they don't know. They don't know the cost of their own policy that they rolled out two years ago. They have a department with thousands of people dedicated to this, and they don't know the cost of their own plan. What a joke. But they have to know the cost of our plan. They can make up numbers. They can multiply. 'Take away the number you first thought of. Think about this. Think about that.' This is a full Penn and Teller show over here. The magic and diversion is on display for everyone to see. 'Open the envelope. There's the magic number.' Here's what our plan will cost, but what will their plan cost? They cannot tell us, because they do not know.</para>
<para>You look at something like Snowy Hydro, and they say: 'It's gone from $6 billion to $12 billion. It's just a rounding error that it's double.' But they don't tell you about the $10 billion worth of lines that they need to plug it in, the extension cord so it actually connects to something. So suddenly it's $22 billion. And they get up today and say, 'In the budget is $22 billion for this and that and that.' That's for the budget this year. What about the plan to 2030? They talk about the floating offshore wind turbines in Port Stephens and the Illawarra. They talk about how this will be great, how this will do that and how it will be half the cost of any other offshore wind turbine in the world that is already built. Forget inflation. Forget extra costs. Forget doing something that's never been done before, like floating substations. This will be half the cost of that incurred by the people who have done it. This is a magic show with smoke, mirrors and deception.</para>
<para>So No. 1 is: tell us how much it will cost. They can't do that. No. 2 is: What is the government going to put into it? How many taxpayer dollars are at risk when we subsidise, underwrite, loan and put equity into this? They can't tell us that. This is where we've got to. They demand actual numbers from a policy that has been announced over here while hiding and walking away from any commitments they've made. This isn't a policy for the government. This is a pop quiz, something to look good. We have Independent members from the other house who fight against eight wind turbines on their land in their electorates but want to build 300 off the coast of New South Wales in the Illawarra and up the Hunter. There are environmental lands out there in the world where there are koalas and habitat, and we can't farm them or develop them unless it's for a wind tower or a transmission line. Just give us some consistency. Give us those two things: how much of your taxpayers' money it will cost to roll out the 82 per cent target by 2030 and the total system cost. I'll be happy if you can give us those.</para>
<para>The scary thing is that I think we'll get more bluster about 'our costings' and 'what we're doing'. This is the policy of the government. If you can't tell us, then tell the people. I've seen the media talking points all over weekend: 'If they can't tell us how much it costs, we can't vote for it.' You can't tell how much the policy you're actually rolling out costs. Prove me wrong. I'd love it. That's the name of a Penn and Teller show. Prove me wrong. Come up with a number that 2032 costs. Say: 'Is nuclear safe for our sailors on the boats who will be sleeping 10 metres away from it?' Say: 'We will be expanding our nuclear exports to the rest of the world'—because we are scared of facts, because we are scared of black and white, because we are scared that your thing is a trip to nowhere, while we actually have a plan.</para>
<para>If you can't cost it, if you can't explain it and if there are contingencies everywhere, it is a joke of a policy. If you've got one policy—and you keep saying that we had 22—how about you try and get another one that works? A second policy would be good, seeing how bad this one is. That's what we come here to do in this place: we sit here and don't answer. We go to estimates and we don't answer. Transparency is the best for government. It is best for the Australian people when you get out there and say, 'I would love our plan to come out and be costed, and I'm sure we will in the next phase of what we announce,' because it is a popular plan and it's a good plan. I've been to Muswellbrook. I went up there with shadow minister O'Brien, and we spoke to the people on the ground. You have nothing, you won't be honest and the people deserve better.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's always fun to come in here and see how the opposition have once again gone down the road to Damascus. I don't know how many times since we came into government that I've seen that happen. They oppose something when they're in parliament and, when they get into opposition, all of a sudden, they say: 'Yahoo! Let's go for that.' I will quote a couple of people. The shadow Treasurer, Mr Taylor, said in September 2018:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I have one very, very simple goal, which is, to get prices down in the short to medium term—</para></quote>
<para>he was talking about energy—</para>
<quote><para class="block">Nuclear's not going to help me in that process. As you know, it's a long way off. I know that sector pretty well. I've worked in it in the past and it's a long way off actually solving the real problem we've got to face up to …</para></quote>
<para>Another shadow minister, Mr Joyce, said in June 2017 about nuclear energy, 'It's been ruled out by reason of cost'—short, sweet and to the point. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr Dutton, said as recently as March 2023: 'I don't support the establishment of big nuclear facilities here at all. I'm opposed to it.' So the coalition understood when they were in government that nuclear power makes no economic sense, yet somehow when they're in opposition, they fail to realise it.</para>
<para>AEMO has consistently said that the lowest cost way to deliver a secure and reliable grid over coming decades is a renewable grid with pumped hydro, batteries, flexible gas and transmission. This is exactly what Labor is delivering, working with the states, territories, industry and the community to deliver Rewiring the Nation, the Expanded Capacity Investment Scheme and the gas code. Under the opposition, when they were in government, we had 22 energy plans—well, it's debatable whether they had 22 or 24, but I will be generous and say 22—not one of which they could make into a policy. They were plans, but they were not policy. As my colleague Senator Sheldon said, this is number 23. Why would we think that this is any different to those other 22 proposals? Speak about being all over the show; that's exactly what the opposition are.</para>
<para>On this side, we're already halfway to meeting our 2023 emissions reductions targets in the national grid. We're cutting power bills now, whereas Mr Dutton and the opposition are promising action in two decades time, yet they really haven't got a plan for how they will deliver it. When we talk about the coalition's nuclear plan, I've got to say that it's very generous to call it a plan. It's a scam. It's meant to be divisive. It's meant to wedge us. It's a tactic. I just don't understand why they're not actually trying to focus on helping people. Really, it's a thought bubble. We can't afford Mr Dutton's nuclear delusion and it cannot be taken seriously.</para>
<para>Mr Dutton's risky reactor plan has no detail, no costings and no modelling. It's expensive, it's slow to build and get underway, and it's just too risky for Australia. As I said, it's not a plan; it's a scam. It's a fantasy, and if the coalition's track record on building big infrastructure projects is anything to go by, this thought bubble will cost billions. Let's just think about, I don't know, car parks at train stations. What a disaster! Truly, that side couldn't organise a chook raffle. But maybe those on the other side are just being divisive because they have some allergy to renewables. As I said, Mr Dutton's plan is risky. There are no costings, no serious timeframe, no detail of the types of reactors—in fact, no detail at all.</para>
<para>But cheap power is why one in three Australian households and small businesses is choosing solar. Under Labor we've seen a 25 per cent increase in renewables in the grid and record investment in batteries and storage. We have green lit more than 50 renewable projects, enough to power three million homes. Last year alone, there were 330,000 rooftop solar installations. That's how you deliver cost-of-living relief—not by pushing up power prices with nuclear reactors.</para>
<para>Those opposite continue to stand on the way of cost-of-living relief. You can't keep coming in here and pretending you care about cheaper energy bills after you've opposed energy price relief, and you can't keep coming in here and pretending you care about the cost of living if you just keep saying no to policies that are about dealing—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Bilyk. Before I give the call to Senator Reynolds, set the clocks for three minutes, and then I'll be putting the motion and giving the call to Senator Roberts for two minutes and then going to the Greens. Senator Reynolds.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand here as a very proud member of the Liberal Party and the coalition, because we still have the courage to debate and propose things that are in our nation's interest. We don't hide behind and hurl invectives and insults, as those opposite are doing. We are actually putting forward policy for a serious national debate.</para>
<para>I have heard not one thing from those opposite about how they are going to keep the lights on for the next 80 years and actually reduce emissions. We have put forward a policy that simply makes sense. Of the top 20 economies in the world, all either have nuclear power, use it from other nations or are transitioning to it. They're not doing that because it does not make economic and environmental sense. They are transitioning to the latest technologies, both large-scale nuclear reactors and small modular reactors, which are currently being developed, and they are doing that because it makes sense. Over 30 nations currently use nuclear power and another 50 are transitioning to nuclear power. So we have a very sensible policy to debate in this place, and to debate publicly. As I've said, I'm incredibly proud to be a member of a coalition that has the courage to do this.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at the proposal for my own home state of Western Australia. Of the seven sites that we have identified, which will be located close to a power station that is either closed or scheduled to close, we've recommended Muja, which is about 22 kilometres outside Collie in Western Australia, which the state government has scheduled to close by 2030. This is the perfect place. In Collie we have the workforce, we have the industry and we have the cooling water capacity. We also have the transmission infrastructure—no new poles and wires. It makes sense to have it there in Perth.</para>
<para>The community around Collie will benefit from a multibillion-dollar facility. It will guarantee these high-paying jobs for many generations to come. Remember, under Labor's policy of millions of solar panels and thousands of wind turbines, they'll only last, if you are lucky, up to 20 years. They'll have to be replaced four times over the same time that we will have one nuclear power plant, in this case in Western Australia. It is the right thing to do for our community and our nation. I have to say: get the guts, stop insulting those on this side and doing stupid cartoons and stand up and actually debate the— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Digital ID Act 2024</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice I asked today relating to digital ID.</para></quote>
<para>The Digital ID Act was presented to the Senate and to the Australian public as a convenient way to establish identity and that it would not be compulsory. It has taken precisely two weeks to discover that's a lie. Already federal and state government departments are demanding digital IDs be created for the most mundane tasks. A constituent of mine in Queensland who attended a health clinic to undergo a physical before starting a job with the Queensland government for which a medical was mandated was told he couldn't have the results of his physical until he got a digital ID. This is a real-world transition. The clinic knew who he was because he had to prove his identity before starting the physical. The digital ID requirement came from the Queensland government. In this case, there's no earthly reason for a digital ID except that the public service have taken it upon themselves to impose a digital ID on every person in the country. Without penalties, there will be no attempt to provide the alternative method of verification that the minister promised.</para>
<para>COVID proved the power of using employment for the purposes of blackmail, and it's a lesson the government has embraced. The digital ID website, digitalidentity.gov.au, rolled out the new webpages for the digital ID within days of the legislation passing. The public education campaign on TV and online started within just a few days. The regulations upon which so much of the bill relies are finished and on public display already. All the ducks were in a row to introduce a digital prison in Australia before the Senate even voted and well before the new law's implementation date in December. No wonder the government did a dirty deal with elements of the crossbench, guillotined the debate—there was no debate—and delivered government the powers they crave. What a disgraceful display. What an abuse of the social contract between the government and its requirement to act in the best interests of the public. One Nation will repeal the digital ID and legislate privacy protections for all Australians.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Grocery Prices</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice I asked today relating to grocery prices.</para></quote>
<para>Let's be abundantly clear about a couple of things. Of course, we need a mandatory code of conduct that governs the relationship between supermarket corporations and their suppliers. That's why the Greens led inquiry into supermarket pricing made a mandatory code of conduct with significant penalties one of our key recommendations. I thank all colleagues who participated in that really important inquiry for their support on that measure.</para>
<para>But let's be abundantly clear about something else. A code of conduct that is mandatory and governs the relationship between supermarkets and their suppliers is not going to bring down the price of food and groceries in Australia. Australians are getting smashed at the moment by what many describe as a cost-of-living crisis but is actually a cost-of-existing crisis. That's how bad it's got for so many Australians. Whether it's bank costs, food and grocery costs, transport costs, rents, power bills or interest rates, everywhere you turn at the moment Australians are getting smashed.</para>
<para>What is the government doing about it? Very, very little. This is a moment of choice for Labor and for Prime Minister Albanese. Are they going to back in the big supermarket corporations, with their billion-dollar profits, who are price gouging Australian shoppers or are they going to actually take a stand and support Australian shoppers who are getting price gouged? On Wednesday this week, Labor will have a test. Will they support the Greens private senator's bill to create divestiture powers in this country?</para>
<para>The Chair of the ACCC has made it clear that, if we had more competition in the food and grocery sector in Australia, we would have lower food and grocery prices. The problem is that the big corporations—in this case, the big supermarket corporations—have got their hooks into the political establishment. They've got their hooks into the Labor and Liberal parties. They are making billion-dollar profits by price gouging Australian shoppers, and the establishment parties in this place take their skim off the top in the form of political donations. They will then come into this place and vote overwhelmingly against the Greens' proposition to create divestiture powers. That's why Labor won't make price gouging illegal.</para>
<para>It is time that big corporations were not able to price-gouge Australians. We have seen fossil fuel companies, banks and supermarkets make obscene profits through a crisis period in Australia, with the pandemic and with our climate breaking down around us. They are making off like bandits, and it is ordinary Australians, through their rents, their mortgages, their power bills and their food and grocery bills at the checkout, that are paying for those obscene superprofits of the big corporations. It's got to end. We've got to make price gouging illegal, and we've got to have more competition in the food and grocery sector in this country to put downward pressure on food and grocery prices.</para>
<para>This is not just a moment for Prime Minister Albanese to decide whether he's going to side with the big supermarket corporations or with ordinary Australian shoppers who are being price gouged. This is a moment for Mr Albanese to decide: is he going to chase headlines or is he actually going to do something to help—something that will bring food and grocery prices down? The choice is stark. The choice is clear for Labor: are they going to back in the big supermarkets who are price gouging, or are they going to back in Australian shoppers who are being price gouged? Unfortunately, the writing's on the wall. Those political donations that are funded through the billion-dollar-plus annual profits of Coles and Woolworths are going to ensure that the political establishment does the bidding of the giant supermarket corporations. It is a disgrace, and it is Australian shoppers who are going to pay the price.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>58</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>CONDOLENCES</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>CONDOLENCES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Lieberman, Hon. Louis Stuart (Lou), AM</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death, on 17 May 2024, of the Hon. Louis Stuart 'Lou' Lieberman AM, a former member of the House of Representatives for the division of Indi, Victoria, from 1993 to 2001.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Nairn, Hon. Gary Roy, AO</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with deep regret that I inform the Senate of the death, on 1 June 2024, of the Hon. Gary Nairn AO, a former minister and member of the House of Representatives for the division of Eden-Monaro, New South Wales, from 1996 to 2007.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate records its sorrow at the death, on 1 June 2024, of the Hon. Gary Roy Nairn AO, former Special Minister of State and former member for Eden-Monaro, places on record its gratitude for his service to the parliament and the nation, and tenders its sympathy to his family in their bereavement.</para></quote>
<para>I'd like to talk about the career of the Hon. Gary Nairn. He grew up in Sydney. He attended Sydney Boys High School before going on to study surveying at the University of New South Wales. It's a profession that he excelled at, eventually starting his own business and taking on senior roles in the Association of Consulting Surveyors Australia and the Spatial Industries Business Association.</para>
<para>Spatial science and mapping would be a lifelong passion of his, and he would use his position in the federal parliament to bring awareness to what he saw as an underappreciated field. He would be the first to say that, without surveying, no major infrastructure project would go ahead. Mr Nairn's career took him to Western Australia, Tasmania, the Northern Territory and as far as Switzerland and Alaska.</para>
<para>It was in the Northern Territory that he began to engage in politics, rising quickly through the ranks. Mr Nairn became President of the Northern Territory Country Liberal Party in 1990, after joining the party in 1987. Mr Nairn would go on to represent the federal seat of Eden-Monaro in 1996, remaining as the member for Eden-Monaro for more than a decade.</para>
<para>His time in parliament saw him rise to become Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister in 2004, with responsibility for water reform, and he was promoted to the frontbench in 2006 as Special Minister of State. It was as Special Minister of State that he launched the Australian government's e-Government strategy. He recognised that the demand for specialist, skilled labour in the tech sector would only grow, and set about actively promoting and encouraging more schoolchildren, women and graduates into tech. The Australian Public Service was particularly exposed, and, in response, Mr Nairn launched the Women in IT Executive Mentoring program. The program matches senior executive mentors with female public servants across the government, developing leaders in senior data and digital roles. Since its launch, more than 400 women have participated in the Women in IT Executive Mentoring program. That's a remarkable legacy.</para>
<para>Even after his political career, Mr Nairn continued to promote his passions and dedicate his time to community causes. He became involved in the Monaro Early Intervention Service, a not-for-profit helping young people with disabilities, and the Mulloon Institute, a not-for-profit promoting sustainable agriculture and environmental regeneration.</para>
<para>In 2015, Mr Nairn was appointed an Officer of the Order of Australia for his contribution to spatial sciences, the New South Wales and Northern Territory communities, federal parliament and disability support services. He would go on to become a national chair of the Duke of Edinburgh's awards of Australia, growing its profile by making it increasingly accessible to young Australians, and was appointed as a board member of the Biodiversity Conservation Trust of New South Wales.</para>
<para>I didn't have the pleasure of knowing Mr Nairn, but I wish that I had. He is rightly admired as a dedicated community advocate and a passionate individual. I extend my condolences to those parliamentarians that knew him and, of course, his many friends.</para>
<para>I also want to extend my most sincere condolences to his wife, Rose, his children, Ben and Deborah, and his grandchildren. The loss of a loved one is heartbreaking and I trust his family and friends will think of the happy memories and reflect on his great legacy for a long time to come.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate for his fine words and rise to associate the opposition with the motion moved by Senator Farrell and, in particular, to honour the life of the Hon. Gary Nairn AO.</para>
<para>Gary was a dependable and duty-driven man. Throughout his entire life, he served our nation, his constituents, the Liberal Party and, most particularly, his community with great distinction. In this place, Gary was the federal member for Eden-Monaro for more than 11 years, but his service to our nation went far beyond the duties of the parliamentarian.</para>
<para>Gary was born in 1951. He attended Sydney Boys High School and studied at the University of New South Wales. He worked as a storeman and packer in wool stores, before beginning his career as a surveyor. Gary had great pride for his professional work, remarking on how rewarding it was both professionally and personally. With his business partner, Earl James, they built a small business that grew over 13 years of operation, from just the two of them undertaking surveying to a team of more than 20 staff by the time Gary was elected to the parliament.</para>
<para>Gary's profession took him to many places across Australia and overseas, but it was in the Northern Territory that his political interests began. He joined the Country Liberal Party in 1987, before serving as president of the CLP from 1990 to 1994. In that period, he oversaw election wins in both 1990 and 1994. Gary was rightly later made a life member of the CLP and was described by the giant of the CLP, Shane Stone, as a true stand-out for his contribution to politics in the Territory.</para>
<para>In 1995, Gary returned to his roots in New South Wales and became an active member of the Liberal Party. In 1996, he was elected as the member for Eden-Monaro. Eden-Monaro was then firmly a bellwether seat, as the saying goes. The Labor MP who held Eden-Monaro lost it in 1975 with the change of government from Labor to the coalition. The Liberal MP who held it lost it in 1983 with the change of government from the coalition to the Labor Party. And Labor lost it in 1996 with the change of government from Labor back to the coalition again. And so it was to be for Gary Nairn, who won the seat from the Labor Party in 1996 and served as the member for Eden-Monaro for every single day of the Howard government but, equally, served not a single day in opposition as he, too, was to lose with the change of government in 2007.</para>
<para>In his maiden speech, Gary spoke proudly about being a part of a decent, honest government that worked for ordinary Australians—the very traits that Gary embodied in and throughout his life. Unsurprisingly, given his own experience, he was a champion of small business, which he particularly saw as the lifeblood of rural and regional Australia, including in Eden-Monaro, which he described as a 'microcosm of Australia'. Gary knew firsthand that family businesses on the farm and the enterprise of people in the towns kept Australia going. Gary spoke with great passion in that first speech and throughout his career and life for Eden-Monaro and its diversity of agriculture and industry, from tourism on the coast through to the Snowy Hydro in the mountains. It is quickly evident to those who glance at Gary's first speech that he was more than ready to use his experiences and his passion to give back to his community.</para>
<para>During his 11 years in parliament, Gary's counsel and common sense were readily sought after by his colleagues and particularly by his Prime Minister, John Howard. I served but seven months in the same party room as Gary Nairn and did so knowing full well at that stage of his reputation as a minister and, more importantly, as one of the most decent members of that party room, one of the most trusted members of that party room and one of the figures upon whom Mr Howard and the government relied consistently. Gary's counsel, Gary's advice, Gary's friendship and Gary's engagement were valued by many. Any interaction with him, be it when he was in the parliament or in the years after he left the parliament, was always a thoughtful, friendly and considered engagement, and one where you left feeling happy for his service and for his contribution.</para>
<para>Gary was recognised in particular by former prime minister Howard for his enduring interest in resources and the environment. Gary held responsibility for water reform, chairing and serving on a number of committees. He most notably chaired the inquiry into the 2003 Canberra bushfires, which found that, while there was no one-size-fits-all strategy to bushfire risk reduction, there were a number of issues—appropriately regarding design of bushfire zones, insurance issues, community preparedness and the toll on emergency services—to which governments must respond. It was a landmark inquiry and a pointer to challenges that governments still must address and respond to to this very day.</para>
<para>In 2004, Prime Minister John Howard appointed Gary as his parliamentary secretary and then, two years later, as the Special Minister of State. Gary's decency, his clear principles and his thoughtfulness meant it was a shame that he did not have the opportunity to serve as a minister for longer, because there is no doubt that he had much more he could have given. Nonetheless, as Senator Farrell has identified, Gary's work in landmark ways in relation to government services, the delivery of the e-government strategy and the pioneering of the Women in IT Executive Mentoring program demonstrates that, in a short period in the executive government, Gary was well and truly able to leave a mark and make a positive contribution.</para>
<para>Unsurprisingly for somebody of Gary Nairn's nature and commitment to community, following his loss at the 2007 election, that commitment did not diminish one iota. Across a range of different sectors, he put his skills and knowledge to use in areas that even I was surprised to discover upon reading some of the comments about Gary after his death, such as his work with Alliance Francaise and its establishment and development within this region. There was also his work with not-for-profit organisations like the Monaro Early Intervention Service, helping young children with disability, and the Mulloon Institute, an institute established in 2011 by Tony Coote and his wife, Toni. Mulloon is recognised globally as a demonstrator of sustainable agriculture and environmental regeneration. It believes that long-term sustainability of both agriculture and the environment requires balance and working together in unison to benefit Australia's farmers and communities. Gary's work there was an important continuation of that interest in resources and the environment that he had brought to the parliament.</para>
<para>It was a testimony to Gary's character and his contributions in so many diverse ways to public life and to the communities around him that Gary was appointed an Officer of the Order of Australia in 2015, an accolade recognising not only his parliamentary service but also his work as a surveyor and his support for Australians with disability. Gary in 2018 was appointed chairman of the national board of the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme, aiming to provide all young Australians with the opportunity to discover their purpose and passion.</para>
<para>So many organisations and voices have paid tribute to Gary for the work that he undertook, and his impact has been remembered with so many words of gratitude. The Duke of Ed program described his contributions in a way that I see as most fitting:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… Gary … was a wonderful citizen of our nation who gave so freely and willingly to enhance it.</para></quote>
<para>It was not just the Duke of Ed. As I said, there were so many others, going right back to Gary's first career as a surveyor. The Geospatial Council of Australia described him:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… as a true statesman in our industry and to the wider community. He was renowned for his dignity and composure …</para></quote>
<para>Critically, perhaps, for a member, particularly a local MP, who has served in this place, I also note the many kind, thoughtful and positive comments of tribute on the Queanbeyan Community Notice Board Facebook page. Local people whom he served were variously describing Gary as a good and wonderful man and paying tribute to his commitment to his local community.</para>
<para>Nineteen years ago this year, Gary rose in the House of Representatives for what must have been the most difficult speech he gave to the House. He spoke then about the death of his first wife, Kerrie, who had just lost her six-month battle with cancer. He bravely paid tribute to her contribution to Eden-Monaro and to her work and accomplishments as an author, an emcee and a speaker in her own right. Gary did not let such tragedy define him as he continued to contribute to his community, to work with his family and to make an impact in the 19 years that were to follow.</para>
<para>As he paid such thoughtful tribute to his wife, we today pay tribute to Gary. On behalf of the opposition and all members across, particularly, the Liberal Party, and, I know, our National Party colleagues too, we extend our heartfelt condolences to Gary's second wife, Rose, to his children with Kerrie, Ben and Deborah, and to his grandchildren. Thank you for supporting Gary and thank you for sharing him with a nation that is grateful for his service.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Nationals in this place, I rise to acknowledge and pay tribute to Gary Nairn. Gary Nairn, while Liberal, was also a regional member of parliament, and he was the epitome of a good and hardworking local member.</para>
<para>In his community, he was much loved, and he was a highly respected member for Eden-Monaro, a federal seat that was always regarded as a bellwether seat, and it was challenging to make sure that he continued to retain that seat. The fact that he held it from his election in 1996 through three elections until the change of government in 2007 is absolute testimony to his ongoing popularity and the hard work he did for his constituents on the ground.</para>
<para>But his interest in politics predated his election to parliament by some years. He started in the Northern Territory, which is an unusual place for a Sydney boy to end up and commence his working career, but that's where Gary Nairn started his interest in politics. He joined the Northern Territory Country Liberal Party and, through his work behind the scenes with the grassroots membership, he was elected party president, a position he held for four years before he returned to New South Wales in 1995. Indeed, his work as party president was rewarded when he was made a life member of the Country Liberal Party following his retirement from that position, a party award that was well deserved.</para>
<para>He returned to New South Wales and, fortunately for the Eden-Monaro electorate, he moved to Queanbeyan, where he joined the Liberal Party. Then he fought the election in 1996 and was successful in being elected to the House of Representatives. Typical of his commitment to the region, Gary was appointed to head a federal inquiry into the 2003 bushfires, which was a tragic event for the district. As mentioned earlier by my colleague Senator Birmingham, the inquiry was far-reaching and in-depth and was really the first of its kind in the federal sphere. The following year, he was appointed as Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister, John Howard, and in January 2006 he was promoted to the front bench as Special Minister of State, prior to losing his seat in the Kevin 07 federal election.</para>
<para>But his life after parliament was just as impressive and just as devoted to public service. He maintained an interest in his local community in Eden-Monaro, and his activities that he was involved with covered a range of issues and organisations, including the local Rotary club, the Monaro Early Intervention Service for children with disabilities and the work that has been mentioned with the Duke of Edinburgh's International Award Australia.</para>
<para>Gary was also appointed board member of the Biodiversity Conservation Trust of New South Wales, and it was this interest in landscape, biodiversity and soil conservation that led Gary to his association with the Mulloon Institute, for which he was appointed chair from 2018 to 2023, when he stood down due to his ill health. The Mulloon Institute is widely known, very well respected and dedicated to landscape rehabilitation and rehydration. It epitomises what we hear a lot of people talking about when they talk about regenerative agriculture and rehabilitating the landscape. Gary has been widely respected in that role as chair of the Mulloon Institute. In fact, as late as last weekend I met with people from the Mulloon Institute, and I'm meeting them again this week. They paid tribute to the work that Gary had done in his role as chair and they expressed their sadness and sorrow at the passing of Gary.</para>
<para>The Mulloon Institute's work in research, education and advocacy is testament to the passionate support of people like Gary and the institute's founder, Tony Coote, who are all supporters of sustainable agriculture, and this is what we in this place—and certainly through the Nationals—strongly support recognising: that agriculture is part of the solution for an environmentally friendly, cleaner, greener future. The Mulloon Institute, which is recognised globally, is an absolute demonstrator of sustainable agriculture and that form of environmental regeneration through landscape rehydration and restoration, recognising the important role of carbon soil sequestration in our cleaner future. The institute fitted perfectly with Gary's interests, and his professional expertise absolutely helped with his contribution to the institute and will no doubt be sorely missed.</para>
<para>On behalf of the Nationals, we pass on our sympathies to his wife, Rose; his children, Ben and Deborah; and all his grandchildren; and also the people of the Eden-Monaro, who have lost a great citizen who continued to represent their region well beyond his years in this place.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today in honour of the former member for Eden-Monaro, the Hon. Gary Nairn AO. Gary was elected to the House of Representatives in 1996. He was then re-elected in 1998, 2001 and 2004. He served as the member for Eden-Monaro for 11 years, losing his seat in 2007. I was a staffer at the Liberal Party and in this place throughout his tenure, and I had the great privilege of working with him and his wonderful team during this time. I came to greatly respect him as a man and also as a very, very passionate local representative. He carried himself with great respect and great passion and commitment for anything he turned his mind to. He was an incredibly passionate representative and member of his local community in Eden-Monaro.</para>
<para>In his first speech, he acknowledged the many battlers in Eden-Monaro whom he personally identified with, being from a rural and regional electorate. In that first speech, he identified the importance of rural and regional Australia. He provided a number of very important reminders to us all here today. There is a great tribute I saw today from a former member for Monaro, Nichole Overall, who said 'He was a well-respected man, a great friend of our family for many years, and, like many others, particularly in Eden-Monaro, we have such fond memory of Gary both personally and professionally.' I know that those sentiments reflect the widespread sentiment of his community.</para>
<para>He truly did care about his electorate and remained a committed community advocate, as we've heard from other speakers here today. He was also very passionate in this place, in parliament, and was a member of many committees, including chair of the electoral matters committee in 1997, chair of procedure in 2000, and chair of science and innovation in 2022, and we have heard several times here about the importance of the report that he delivered as chair of the recent Australian bushfires report in 2003. I think it is such a shame that so many of the important observations and recommendations of that report have not yet been fully implemented. The same recommendations have been the subject of many reviews since then, not just in New South Wales and the ACT but across the country, and I think that was something that he no doubt felt very sad about.</para>
<para>Gary was also a parliamentary secretary to the prime minister John Howard, and they had a very close bond, as I suspect Senator Fawcett will be talking about shortly in relation to that relationship. He served with distinction as a special minister of state. Gary was appointed chairman of the national board for the Duke of Edinburgh awards in 2018 and for six years was its leader. His personal endeavours were keenly focused on ensuring as many young Australians as possible would have access to the Duke of Edinburgh awards. In 2023, in recognition of this commitment, His Royal Highness Prince Edward, Duke of Edinburgh, acknowledged the awarding of the gold Distinguished Service Medal to Gary—the most prestigious recognition of eminent service to the Duke of Edinburgh's International Awards in Australia. It was well-deserved, and another demonstration of Gary's commitment and his passion.</para>
<para>I extend my deepest condolences to Gary and his family, including his wife, Rose, his children Ben and Deborah, his grandchildren, his friends, his former staff, and his former colleagues. Thank you for your service to your country and to your community—you will be greatly missed. Vale, Gary Nairn.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a few brief remarks. My colleagues have covered much of Gary's background, his education and his service before, during and after parliament. I wish to comment on three personal observations. Firstly, we have a couple of points of connection: we both left the lower house in 2007 thanks to Kevin 07 and that campaign. We had the privilege of working with John Howard as prime minister, and I had engaged with Gary on a number of occasions in that process, and developed a respect for him and the way that he worked. Secondly, he had a close relationship with the prime minister, to the extent that when the Socceroos in 2006 were playing against Croatia in the World Cup, at some unearthly hour of the morning, the Prime Minister said to Gary the night before, 'You should get a few colleagues to come around and watch the game.' So Gary did a bit of a ring-around. I was one of the few people remaining here to attend a committee meeting the next day, so Gary and I ended up with the prime minister. There is a famous photo which constituents still send me on occasion, saying 'You're that bloke!' Gary is sitting on one side of John Howard, with me on the other—wearing one of John Howard's tracksuit tops because it was a bit cool at 5 o'clock in the morning—and John Howard is leaping in the air as Australia scored the first equalising goal against Croatia. There's a point there where he and I will be forever connected through that, at least in image.</para>
<para>But the main thing I wanted to comment on was that, during that time, having left the military and come into the parliament, I was looking around at the people who were working, looking at people that I saw as role models. There were the obvious ones like the prime minister and John Anderson, but one of the things Gary taught, through the way that he worked, was—to use the soccer analogy—that he played the ball and not the man or the woman. He was very focused. He was very passionate. He would pursue things with vigour, but he always fought on the basis of the issue. He didn't attack people. He was respected. He sought to find common ground to get outcomes that were good for his community and for the nation.</para>
<para>So, as a fairly new parliamentarian at the time, Gary was one of the people that I looked to as a role model for how to be a parliamentarian, not a politician just with an eye on the next election—to go right back to Abraham Lincoln and Burke and some of the statements that they made—but with an eye on the next generation. That was how he worked. We saw that as he continued with his duties as he mourned the loss of his wife, Kerrie. That was a very difficult period for him. He continued with his empathy for other people. He mourned, he grieved, but he still served and was empathetic. He still worked with dignity. There's a lot that people from all sides can learn from someone like Gary and the legacy he has left. Vale, Gary, and my sympathies to his current wife, Rose, and his children, Ben and Deborah.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to add some words to the contribution of my colleagues to acknowledge the service and pay condolences to the family of Gary Nairn AO, who has just been described very effectively. He was a very considered, sound, calm, not-always-quiet-but-mostly-quiet contributor. One who, when he spoke, people stopped to take notice.</para>
<para>Gary made a significant contribution to this place during his service from 1996 to 2007, and those of us who continued to serve on post 2007 were very sad to lose someone of Gary's calibre. Of course, Gary continued on with his public service. He continued to work in the public interest. That was a feature of who he was. I was looking through some of the notes earlier and saw that he was appointed an Officer in the Order of Australia for his contribution to spatial sciences. That brings an interesting connotation. But, of course, Gary was a surveyor. He was a practical guy. I suppose that's one of the reasons that I related to him quite well, having worked in the building industry and having used the services of the surveying profession during my time in that industry before coming into this place. He was a practical guy who brought practical solutions to the problems that his electorate raised with him. And he had an enormously diverse electorate, as those who have made contributions to this debate already include, from the southern end of New South Wales to the outskirts of the ACT and everything in between, with fishing, forestry, farming and a whole range of industries supporting those communities and, of course, this community here in Canberra.</para>
<para>Gary always brought a very practical and respectful approach to his work. He indicated his engagement and acknowledgement of Howard's battlers in his first speech. It was quite evident from his contributions that he had empathy and understanding of those people, making him such a valuable local member. His service as the parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister and as Special Minister of State have already been mentioned by my colleagues and so have his recognitions in the work he did post his time in this place. It was extremely well deserved to have been acknowledged in the way that he was. It was humbly received by Gary too, I might say, because he was that sort of person—not necessarily one for much fuss but one about doing the job and getting it done properly and effectively, and, as has been indicated, not necessarily about being flashy but about understanding things properly and getting the job done. It's already been mentioned that that was the approach that he brought to his inquiry into the 2003 Canberra bushfires, which was an extraordinary event to be close to at the time, but Gary did an extraordinary job in his assessment of that very, very difficult event for people in this community.</para>
<para>Can I add my condolences to his wife, Rose, and his children, Ben and Deborah. He talked in his first speech about how important his family was to him and how his first wife, Kerrie, was such an important part of his campaign to get here in the first place. I think there are plenty of us who would understand those sentiments and would probably express them ourselves, but it was a clear demonstration of the importance of his family to him. So can I extend to them my sincerest condolences as a part of this debate and express my sadness that we have lost someone of the calibre of Gary Nairn AO at the age of 73, which is way too soon.</para>
<para>Question agreed to, honourable senators joining in a moment of silence.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Thorpe for 14 and 15 May 2024, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Hanson from 24 to 27 June 2024, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Army Aviation</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 531, relating to an order for the production of documents.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I amend the motion in the terms circulated in the chamber. I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than 5 pm on 3 July 2024, the following documents:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Houston Review into Army Aviation (2016); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Yates Review into MRH-90 (2020).</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection? There is no objection, so the extensions are granted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Title</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that Senator Roberts has submitted a proposal under standing order 75, shown at item 16 of today's Order of Business:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Native Title system in Australia is critically flawed and perpetuates discrimination. A new claim has been lodged by the Woppaburra people for exclusive use over an additional 2,249 acres of Great Keppel Island, despite a prior Federal Court ruling extinguishing Native Title over significant portions of the island, with the effect of potentially closing Great Keppel Island to non-Aboriginal Australians. This situation exemplifies why there is urgent need for a thorough overhaul of Native Title laws to prevent misuse and ensure equal treatment for all Australians regardless of race</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Native Title system in Australia is critically flawed and perpetuates discrimination. A new claim has been lodged by the Woppaburra people for exclusive use over an additional 2,249 acres of Great Keppel Island, despite a prior Federal Court ruling extinguishing Native Title over significant portions of the island, with the effect of potentially closing Great Keppel Island to non-Aboriginal Australians. This situation exemplifies why there is urgent need for a thorough overhaul of Native Title laws to prevent misuse and ensure equal treatment for all Australians regardless of race</para></quote>
<para>I rise to speak about the racial divisions that continue to be perpetrated by the Liberal-Labor uniparty and their toxic native title system. One Nation 's candidate for the Queensland seat of Keppel, James Ashby, is doing a wonderful job holding the Miles Labor government accountable for its failure to meet $30 million worth of commitments to Great Keppel Island. Further, James Ashby deserves credit for exposing the latest native title claim on the island on the weekend. This claim, if successful, would mean that 84 per cent of Great Keppel Island would be excluded from non-indigenous Australians. One of the jewels of Central Queensland and an Australian tourism icon could effectively be closed off for all time from the Australian people, from local businesses and from international visitors.</para>
<para>This isn't the first time an Indigenous group has tried to close off Great Keppel Island from the rest of us by using a divisive native title claim. In 2021 the Federal Court denied a native title claim over the Great Keppel Island leases held by Tower Holdings because of pre-existing infrastructure of commercial value. One Nation calls on this latest claim to be thrown out, too, and for the Miles Labor government to honour its $30 million promise to clean up and restore Great Keppel Island. Yet we must go much further than that. We're calling for a comprehensive review of the entire native title system and a sunset clause on native title claims, because it's getting out of hand and it's excluding from any consultation on these processes the most important stakeholders of all: the Australian people.</para>
<para>More than 50 per cent of Australia is now under native title claim, yet fewer than three per cent of Australians have had any say in it. The rest of us are excluded from the process. While state governments, councils and the Federal Court get a say, they almost never represent community views, because they don't ask us for our views. We're not asked, because they don't want to hear our views. This is what happened in the lead-up to the Voice referendum. There was a lot of consultation, costing a lot of taxpayer money, but only with Indigenous groups. There was none for the rest of Australia. It's one of the main reasons it was such a spectacular $450 million failure, a flop. Consultation was undertaken in an echo chamber where dissent was absent, where dissent was chastised, where dissent was suppressed. Native title claims are resolved in this sort of bubble as well—a bubble from which most Australians are always excluded, deliberately. Even those people who are specifically intended to benefit from native title are excluded from those benefits.</para>
<para>I often visit remote communities in Cape York and the Northern Territory, and the No. 1 complaint from Aboriginal Australians right across Cape York and the communities I visited in the Northern Territory is the inability of Aboriginals to get land title while unaccountable land councils act as robber barons building fiefdoms. This was expressed to me again by Aboriginal elders who'd heard I was visiting Maryborough and Gympie last week and came to see me and attended a forum I hosted. There's another agenda going on in the background. The Native Title Act's preamble is littered with references to the United Nations policy and declarations. Why is this so? It fits with the UN agenda of attacking private land ownership and locking the land away from use. Unfortunately for local Aboriginals, they're denied the opportunity of actually owning their piece of Australia by buying it to live on, to invest, to build, to develop, to farm or to use as collateral for a business loan to set up a business.</para>
<para>Native title holds Aboriginals back from doing what all other Australians can do with land. It works to maintain the gap, not close it. When British colonists arrived there was no form of landownership on the mainland. There was no recognition of individual landownership, security or passing the land onto heirs. Land title existed only in limited form, in some Torres Strait Islands. The Mabo decision was based on this distinction. It was the Labor native title legislation that extended this to the mainland of Australia—incorrectly. Native title perpetuates racial discrimination in Australia by creating rights based on race. This is wrong and must be reversed. The whole concept is consistent with Labor's policy of waste and arrogance and disdain for Aboriginals and all Australians as part of a global agenda.</para>
<para>Labor is one part of the uniparty. The Liberals and Nationals have done nothing to review this act to fix things for all Australians. Democratic government is supposed to work for the people and serve the people. Instead, in recent decades the uniparty governments have worked to control the people. They push a global agenda to control people and steal property and transfer wealth to the party's corporate globalist masters. We need a comprehensive review of native title urgently so that we can get back to helping Aboriginals get some land.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to rise and talk about a beautiful part of Queensland, Great Keppel Island. It's a wonderful place and worthy of the visitation and tourism that it receives. I have had the pleasure of visiting Great Keppel Island. I know it's a very proud jewel in the crown for people in Central Queensland. Obviously, this motion that's being debated today and put forward by the One Nation party is all about a state campaign happening near Great Keppel Island in Yeppoon and more broadly in Queensland. It is a culture war designed to get the name of the candidate from the One Nation party in the headlines. It doesn't involve any consideration of community views and it's peddling mistruths about what is actually happening on Great Keppel Island. I'm very pleased to have the opportunity to set the record straight and for the record of the Miles government and the federal government to be recorded.</para>
<para>To be very clear: there have not been any plans, and there will not be plans, to change the name of Great Keppel Island, despite what Mr Ashby says in the community. Despite what Mr Ashby says in the community, there are no plans for the Queensland government to support the current native title claim that has been reported over the weekend for exclusive use of parts of Great Keppel Island. What there is, though, is a plan from the Miles government and particularly led by Brittany Lauga, the state member in Yeppoon, to work with the local community to deliver a $30 million master plan to revitalise tourism on Great Keppel Island, working with traditional owners and tourism operators. That is the work that is underway. Despite the culture wars and misinformation from One Nation and the LNP in Queensland, that is the work that is ongoing. It is being led by a fantastic local member in Brittany Lauga. She is a fantastic local member.</para>
<para>We're going to hear today arguments about the fact that this proposed native title claim will prevent economic development, prevent tourism and stop people from travelling to Great Keppel Island. There will be claims that apparently tourism jobs will be put at risk. I'm not going to stand here and let people from One Nation make those claims, whether they are a state candidate or a member of the Senate or members of the LNP, who will get up here today and rave about the fact that tourism jobs are at risk on Great Keppel Island while they currently have a plan to defer climate action and not do anything to help. What tourism operators actually need all along the coast of the Great Barrier Reef is an energy plan on climate change delivering renewables. It is absolutely hypocritical for those opposite to come in here and argue that they are standing up for jobs on the Great Barrier Reef, like Great Keppel Island, without having a credible plan for how they're going to take action on climate change.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just down the road from Great Keppel Island is Gladstone. I'm sure you have visited from time to time, Acting Deputy President Polley. This is where one of the supposed nuclear reactors from Peter Dutton and the Liberals and Nationals will go. They want to put nuclear power just down the road from Great Keppel Island.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're a joke!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can tell you that those tourism operators on Great Keppel Island are incredibly concerned not only because of the proposed nuclear reactors going just down the road from Great Keppel Island but because they know that this plan, led by Senator Canavan and other Nationals members of the Liberal National Party, does nothing to protect the reef against climate change, does nothing to prevent climate change and doesn't do anything to protect the Great Barrier Reef.</para>
<para>Senator Canavan continues to shout at me. He can do that, and he can shout at members of the community about what he believes, but what our government is doing is listening to people about what they want. We listen to tourism operators around the Great Barrier Reef, and they're not interested in debates about culture wars and scare campaigns from over there. What they're interested in is real-time real action on climate change, and that's what our government is delivering. It is really disappointing to see another culture war fought from those opposite, but we'll see this from time to time. Whether it is completely disbelieving that climate change is real and needs action or making up claims about the Queensland government supporting a native title claim, we're going to hear it all today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What an embarrassing contribution we've just heard. We're meant to be talking about the native title system and its desperate need for reform—and it clearly does need lots of change, especially for Aboriginal people, who it's meant to benefit—but instead we've had a government senator come in here and attack the opposition about nuclear power. I don't want to do that, but I'll just quickly say: if nuclear power is somehow an inhibitor to the tourism industry, can someone explain to me the French? Can someone explain to me why Paris is the most visited town by tourists in the world? I'm sure many Labor senators like to spend the cold winters here in Australia over there in the European summer, happily using 70-per-cent nuclear-powered air conditioning in their apartments on the Champs-Elysees.</para>
<para>The clear thing we need here is cheap power for our country, and that will help all industries, including the tourism sector. One of the factors that has limited tourism on Great Keppel Island has been a lack of reliable power. They have needed to use diesel gen sets. It's a dirty form of power, both for carbon emissions and from a more general pollutant perspective. It's also very expensive. They need cheaper power, and wind and solar ain't gonna cut it. There have been lots of people planning to do wind and solar on Great Keppel Island, but it's not enough to run a resort or a modern tourism venture. They need proper power that can last all day. But I actually didn't want to talk too much about that in the limited time I have.</para>
<para>The main reason we need a focus on the native title system is that it has failed the promise that it provided to Indigenous people of this country. It's a good thing that the rights of Indigenous people have been recognised though the Native Title Act, but at the moment those rights are not able to be fully captured by Indigenous people, because of the restrictions placed on the system. We now have a generation of experience of native title—it's been in existence for 30 years—and the biggest winners have been lawyers. The legal industry have laughed their way all the way to the bank over those three decades, and poor and often desperate Indigenous communities have been left behind. We have to give Indigenous people more agency and more opportunity to take the economic benefits that are provided by having a right of property. Instead, we continually see people in this chamber saying that they support Indigenous rights, but whenever an Indigenous community has the temerity to want to exercise those rights—to develop an agricultural district, to build a dam, a mine or a factory, to expand fishing opportunities—the same people in this place who say they endorse Indigenous rights are the ones saying they can't do it.</para>
<para>This was most starkly demonstrated in the saga over the Adani Carmichael mine. The Wangan and Jagalingou people voted 294 to one in favour of the Adani mine, yet we still had people, particularly from the Greens and sometimes from the Labor Party, coming in here and saying, 'No, no, no; the Indigenous people can't have this mine,' even though it was approved 294 to one at the authorisation meeting under the Native Title Act. Thankfully those forces didn't win, and thankfully that mine is operating. The project employs 2,000 Queenslanders, including many hundreds of Indigenous people, and they're very happy with it. Greens senators are welcome to come and check it out. They were up there a lot when it was being proposed, but you don't see them much anymore, now that the mine is operating and providing opportunity. Too often around our country, native title corporations are restricted in what they can do. They often cannot invest in entrepreneurial endeavours. What we need is to have a system which allows Indigenous people to build their own businesses to take care of their own futures so they're not tied like indentured servants to a government run scheme that, as I say, that is leeched on by the legal profession. We have to give them that agency, and it needs reform.</para>
<para>So I welcome this motion being brought forward to bring a spotlight to these issues. We are now seeing again, I think, the abuse of the native title system on behalf of legal interests, where it's being extended, as we mentioned before, to areas like Great Keppel Island, where it was not intended to go. There are clearly areas of our country where native title rights exist, and our focus should remain on getting those rights working for people across the country rather than seeking to use and abuse this system for political purposes and, once again, only benefit lawyers, not the people on the ground.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I want to say that these lands and the sovereign rights of these lands were never ceded. Until Australia has a treaty with its first people, we're in a holding pattern, in a permanent suspension of our rights to exercise our own decision-making and our own determination. I won't sit here being lectured to by others in this chamber about agency and rights, when they've done the most damage, in the referendum last year, to exactly that—the rights and the exercising of the rights of First Nations people in this place.</para>
<para>Woppa, which is the cultural name for Great Keppel Island, is sacred to the traditional owners of that place, the Woppaburra people. I want to put on record the statement from Mr Fred Saunders, who's the chairperson of the Woppaburra Saltwater Aboriginal Corporation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We are protective of our sacred areas and will maintain our cultural responsibilities, but the Woppaburra people are not about restriction, anti-development and locking up lands.</para></quote>
<para>So Senator Roberts, in bringing this motion to this chamber today, in a very one-sided version, is frankly just dog whistling, and that's what it needs to be called out for.</para>
<para>Let's start with the mini history lesson. First Nations can prove, have proven and already do prove their ongoing connection to this country. Terra nullius was disproved under Mabo, not just once but twice in this country. I've said it before and I will keep saying it: this landmark decision could have and should have really changed land rights for First Nations people in this country, but it has taken so much of them away. This decision should have seen First Nations people enjoying their country, enjoying their rights and doing exactly what the Woppaburra people want to do. The traditional owners of this land want to access this land to help clean it up, to rehabilitate the contaminated areas and to do groundwater testing and fire and pest management activities after that resort was abandoned in 2007. I also note, for anyone who thinks that we get rights just by snapping our fingers like this, that it took the Woppaburra people 17 years to actually have their native title determined. Imagine being in a holding pattern for 17 years.</para>
<para>Nowhere on this great continent have we stopped people from visiting, camping, fishing or even buying a place on our country. Even after we told them about cultural protocols when coming to sacred places and about the importance of our artefacts and protecting our waterways and our sea country, we're still here, in this place, fighting for our legal protections under Western law, not under cultural law—the law of the land.</para>
<para>This urgency motion seeks to undermine the resilience, healing and connections that Woppaburra people, and many other First Nations people across this country, have. It seeks to bury the actual facts, the true and factual story: that those people, the Woppaburra people, waited 17 years for the deed to their homelands and to return there. I invite everyone in this place to go and look it up and to sit and watch the video. The people are crying for their country. They are not there to exploit it.</para>
<para>To the folks out there watching today: this is exactly why we need truth-telling and truth-listening in this country. We want to ensure that everyone understands the true history of Australia—the first chapter, where First Peoples can talk of their experiences, their relationship with the land and the water, our culture, our practices, our celebrations, our ceremonies, and the songlines of our ancestors and the way they link intrinsically to our kinship connections that have helped us to be here, survive and maintain this beautiful country for thousands of generations.</para>
<para>The Greens will be absolutely opposing. I stand here proudly as a First Nations spokesperson, on behalf of the Australian Greens, to stand against this trumped-up, misinformed, paranoid, cooked-up notion that has been brought to this chamber today. It is wrong. It is wrong to continue to talk about First Nations people in this way. It is wrong to refer to legislation that we didn't craft—that we didn't put out in front of us. We've never been in government. We are not self-governing in this country. And yet people come to this chamber and blame First Nations people for the outcomes that have been fed to us. It's disgusting.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the motion as moved by Senator Roberts be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:40] <br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>27</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Darmanin, L.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Hodgins-May, S.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will now consider the proposal from Senator Sharma.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government's policies are failing to meet emissions reductions targets, driving up electricity bills, making Labor's cost of living crisis even worse and set Australia up for environmental and economic failure; compared with the bold vision and plan of the Coalition to develop next generation, zero emissions nuclear technologies to provide cheaper, cleaner and consistent electricity for the decades ahead.</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to talk about the Albanese government's energy policy failure. What we've seen from this government is a trifecta of failure: they're failing to make significant emissions reductions, they're failing to make electricity cheaper and they're failing to make our energy system more reliable.</para>
<para>In the first quarter after Labor came to office, quarterly emissions as reported in the <inline font-style="italic">National </inline><inline font-style="italic">greenhouse gas inventory</inline> for the June 2022 quarter were 108.2 megatons of CO2 equivalent. For the most recent quarter available, March 2024—almost two years later—quarterly emissions were 109.7 megatons of CO2 equivalent. Emissions have gone up since Labor came to office. Compare this with the coalition. When we came to office in 2013, annual emissions were 557 megatons of CO2 equivalent and, when we left office in 2021, they were 438—a cumulative emissions reduction of 21 per cent. What we have seen from Labor in terms of emissions reduction is a big doughnut—a zero. They promised lower emissions but, in fact, emissions are increasing. Remember how many times the Labor government promised that electricity bills would be $275 cheaper on average by the end of 2025.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Ninety-seven!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it was on at least 92 occasions, wasn't it, by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. I stand to be corrected by those opposite. Instead, what we've seen is double-digit increases in the retail prices of electricity and gas for each of the past two years—in the order of 15 per cent annually for electricity and 25 per cent annually for gas. So they promised lower power bills, but power bills are, in fact, increasing.</para>
<para>Finally, the government's policies have failed to make our energy system more reliable. Just last week the Australian Energy Market Operator—the regulator in this space—warned that the largest supply of gas storage on the east coast could run out of gas before the end of the year: 'The supply of gas in all or part of the east coast gas system may be inadequate to meet demand.' With the continued closure of coal-fired power stations coupled with a greater dependence on intermittent forms of energy, our energy system is ever more dependent on gas to act as the swing producer. So, if gas is running low, the stability of our electricity system in its entirety is in peril. We've seen Labor promise to make our energy system more reliable but, instead, the security of our energy system is hanging by a thread. They promised lower emissions but, in fact, emissions are increasing. They promised lower power bills but, in fact, power bills are increasing.</para>
<para>Acting Deputy President McGrath, you'll be pleased to note that there is an alternative, and it's one that the coalition announced just last week. We did that because we know that Labor's renewables-only approach is not reducing our emissions, is not reducing prices and is not making our electricity system more reliable. The coalition believes in a balanced energy mix—not a renewables-only approach. That's why we've promised to pursue, if elected, zero emissions nuclear power generation. Of the 20 most advanced economies—the G20 countries—Australia is the only country either not using nuclear power or moving towards it. We will change that. With 90 per cent of baseload power—predominantly coal-fired power stations—coming to their end of life over the next decade, we need a non-intermittent form of energy to replace them. Currently, large-scale storage is not up to the task. Australians are currently paying some of the highest electricity prices anywhere in the world—upwards of 40c per kilowatt hour—but, in the province of Ontario, for instance, where nuclear power provides 60 per cent of the energy mix, electricity costs are around 14c per kilowatt hour or four times less.</para>
<para>How often do we hear in this debate that we need to listen to the science and be guided by the experts. Here we have a power source which is validated by science, is zero emissions, is used reliably and commercially around the world, which more nations are embarking on and in which Australia has some natural advantages. More than that, it would set up Australia for a whole new wave of industries and new technologies. What's not to like? But Labor doesn't want to touch this. They don't seem to think Australia is up for a sophisticated debate. They don't seem to think that Australia, which has had a functioning nuclear energy industry for over 60 years, has the capability or ambition to imagine an alternative future.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just would say, Senator Sharma: say it with feeling. Say it like you really mean it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr is on his feet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He's impugning the motive of Senator Sharma. I thought he delivered it with great feeling. I was actually quite moved.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am unsure whether that was a point of order. I'm going to let Senator Ayres continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The truth is that there is only one party in this place that's fighting to lower prices for ordinary consumers and business, and it's the Labor Party and the government. The truth is it can't be wished away. The truth is that there is a war in Europe that is driving up energy prices. The truth is that the last decade of policy inaction under the Morrison—remember him?—Turnbull and Abbott government has meant disinvestment in the Australian energy grid over the course of the last decade, with four gigawatts out and only one gigawatt in. That is the price of policy stasis. That is the price of letting the maddies get in charge of coalition energy policy. That's what Australians experienced, and that's why Mr Taylor, in the lead-up to the last election, hid from the Australian people the electricity price rises that were coming their way because of the failures of the last government. What he did was totally improper. It's totally consistent with Mr Dutton's and Mr O'Brien's approach today—hiding the true costs of their nuclear hoax for ordinary Australians.</para>
<para>What the Labor Party is doing in government is supporting households and business. There will be $300 off bills in just seven days. There were the measures that we took last year to put a cap on gas and coal prices. We put in place an orderly framework and a straightforward platform for investment that is seeing project after project being invested in. Of course, as Senator Sharma says, there is a role for gas as a transition fuel in that process. That is what we as a government are doing.</para>
<para>What is Mr Dutton's answer to that proposition? It's to vote against all of the measures put in place by the Labor Party to put downward pressure on prices. But, secondly, it's to search around the globe for the most expensive, the most costly and the most improbable proposition for Australia in energy policy terms—nuclear. It's the only measure guaranteed to do two things. One is put to upward pressure on prices. While Mr O'Brien can't say if it's two per cent, five per cent, 10 per cent or 40 per cent of the energy mix in 2050 under their dodgy, uncosted, risky, expensive plan, the one thing we know that it will do is push up prices for consumers. The second thing that we know it will do is create disinvestment, capital flight. Investment will find a more rational location not characterised by the policy incoherence of the show opposite. If ever they form government, investors will go somewhere else to build the energy systems of the future. Investors will go somewhere else to build manufacturing facilities. So it would mean upward pressure on prices and sharply increasing costs for households and business, and the manufacturing industry that we are fighting so hard to build would be forced offshore into other locations. That is the real truth about the hoax perpetrated on Australians last week, and it will steadily unravel. It will steadily unravel because it is so dishonest.</para>
<para>What we also saw was the arrogance and the nastiness of Mr Dutton when he said, 'You are going to get nuclear under Peter Dutton whether you like it or not.' If a state government says, 'We're not for nuclear,' Mr Dutton says, 'We don't care'—to Mr Minns, or the government of Queensland or the government of Victoria. And if the people of Lithgow or the Hunter Valley don't want nuclear, well, guess what? Mr Dutton says you're getting it whether you like it or not—big Canberra trying to push people around, and the nastiness of the Liberals on full display. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So, Liberals are for nuclear, coal and gas, and Labor is for coal, gas and nuclear subs—and neither lot are for the planet or the people. The Tweedledum and Tweedledee of Australian politics are having a present dust-up while secretly holding hands, ignoring the climate crisis and fuelling climate change. Result polling made it clear that the net likeability of rooftop solar is 82 per cent, renewables 66 per cent, nuclear barely eight per cent and coal two per cent. So, why are Labor and Liberal so hell-bent on pushing their deadly mix of coal, gas and nuclear? Maybe—just maybe—their big donors in the fossil fuel industry have something to do with it. Or maybe it's the jobs they're lining up for once they leave politics. Maybe it's both of those things together.</para>
<para>But as much as the Albanese Labor government feigns outrage over Dutton's nuclear plan, there's a big AUKUS shaped elephant in the room, isn't there? The Labor government is rightly pointing out how dangerous and absurd nuclear power is for Australia, but at the same time they're desperately pushing legislation through this place that'll see tonnes and tonnes of high-level nuclear waste dumped here from Australian and even UK and US nuclear reactors. For the Albanese government, nuclear power is bad—unless it's in a nuclear reactor in a floating metal tube with a US flag painted on the side. Perhaps the stars and stripes will keep us safe! It's embarrassing to watch the Albanese government huff and puff and fight nuclear when their opponent is Peter Dutton but then roll over like puppies when it comes to the US docking nuclear reactors around Australia. In Labor land, community outrage is 100 per cent legitimate when it's against having a big fat coalition reactor plonked in their backyard, but it's all just a Greens led conspiracy when it says no to having a floating reactor in their local harbour. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise this afternoon to speak to this matter of public importance from Senator Sharma, and I want to address the cost of living and in particular energy prices. There is a very sad story in today's <inline font-style="italic">Courier</inline><inline font-style="italic">-</inline><inline font-style="italic">M</inline><inline font-style="italic">ail</inline> about a local fish-and-chip shop, one that I go to. It is closing down because of tough times. It is closing down because of the increasing costs of everything that goes into operating a fish-and-chip shop. I'm particularly saddened by it because it was the fish-and-chip shop where I introduced my children to Pasito. This was a fish-and-chip shop that stocked Kirks soft drinks—a great Queensland company. They stocked creaming soda, Pasito and ginger ale—three of my favourite soft drinks. Let me tell you, when I say to the children, 'We're having fish and chips tonight,' the first word out of their mouth is 'Pasito'.</para>
<para>You may wonder what that's got to do with the cost of living. Well, I'll tell you what: going out to have some fish and chips on a Saturday night with a little bit of Queensland made Pasito is priceless. That stuff is priceless. I think when we talk about the cost of energy and the cost of living we need to understand that there is a human element to this. And when we lose our small business we lose a part of what makes this country great—the little battler out there trying to make a living, trying to stand on his own two feet and not have to bend over to the big end of town and be told what to do. There is nothing greater in this country than standing on your own two feet and running a small business. Yes, it causes a lot of stress and heartache, but at least you're standing on your own two feet and having a go. That's what built this country—the battlers who get up every day and put their nose to the grindstone and have a go.</para>
<para>But we're obviously getting very antagonistic about whether we go nuclear or whether we don't go nuclear. I've always been one to look at real-world situations. I know in a previous set of estimates I asked the former head of the CSIRO, Larry Marshall, if he could provide me a model to show me how they calculate net zero. Mr Marshall replied, 'Which one?' He said that there are 40 different models. When we talk about the cost of nuclear, it's very important that we try and look at real-world situations rather than the modelling that's being provided by the CSIRO. If we go and look at something like the International Energy Agency, they—unlike the CSIRO, who thinks nuclear is the most expensive form of energy—don't base their forecasts or whatever on models. They look at real-world data. They think that nuclear energy is the lowest-cost form of energy. If we look at the situation last year in Finland, a country that just built its first nuclear reactor, we see energy prices decline.</para>
<para>The other aspect of nuclear that I am interested in is the technology that it brings. I was recently on a public works committee and we went and visited Lucas Heights. It was a very exciting day, looking at all the technology that nuclear brings in terms of nuclear medicine, for example, and how the different isotopes can identify different forms of cancers and stuff. There is a knowledge base to this. You may find this hard to believe, but I think we need to look at unlocking the energy in those higher-molecular-weight atoms like uranium, plutonium and thorium. Say we could somehow, in the future, find a safe way of unlocking that energy whereby you put that into a battery that, instead of running for, say, 400 kilometres and then taking four to eight hours to recharge, you can use it in a car and it could last for a year or two. Then you wouldn't have to wait to charge your car after every 400 kilometres, or you wouldn't have to fill up your car with fuel at all.</para>
<para>NASA sends probes beyond Mars using the technology used in nuclear energy. If we can take that technology that gets probes out beyond Mars and beyond and somehow convert that into day-to-day use, that is something that I think Australia, with the world's largest reserves of uranium, should be looking at investigating. I'm pleased to support this motion from Senator Sharma, and I'm pleased to have a leader who has the courage of his convictions to fight for something that we believe in.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor, the Greens, the paid-off media and climate activists are all fighting tooth and nail against nuclear. You can hear them screaming so loudly because reliable baseload power is a massive threat to the billionaire solar and wind cartel. Both sides of politics have, for more than two decades, mismanaged energy so grossly that we've caused an energy crisis that Australia is now facing down. One Nation congratulates the coalition on agreeing with One Nation's longstanding policy to remove the ban on nuclear energy and have a debate about where it sits in our energy needs. We can only hope that One Nation's full policy is adopted one day: remove all the subsidies and let the cheapest form of power win so we can put more money back in Australians' pockets.</para>
<para>There's no reason that we need to forcibly shut down coal to put nuclear in the mix. The coalition plan is to forcibly acquire coal-fired power stations, shut them down and replace them with nuclear. Let's do nuclear, and let's do coal too. One of those coal-fired power stations the coalition wants to shut down is at Tarong. I visited there on Friday. It sits right on top of a coal mine. Coal is dug out of the ground and put on a conveyor belt straight into the power station with minimal transport costs. What more could you ask for? We've got 40 years of real-world costs on the Tarong stations, and it's as cheap as chips. It uses high-energy-density fuel. Why tear down Tarong and replace it with nuclear based on projections—or worse, solar and wind based on unicorn farts? Instead, just build another coal-fired power station right there at Tarong beside it and use the same power.</para>
<para>The coalition can't do that, because it's fully committed to the United Nations net zero madness, a catastrophic nightmare in the making, and we haven't seen anything yet. We've got these people in the government putting on benefits to energy policy because of the rising cost due to their policy. Only One Nation will say, 'up yours!' to foreign unelected organisations telling us what to do and instead use Australia's coal and uranium resources for the cheapest power possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In just a week, all 13.6 million taxpayers in Australia will be getting a tax cut, our $300 energy rebate begins for all Australians, and 2.6 million low-paid workers will get their third consecutive pay rise backed by this government, because Labor wants Australians to earn more and keep more of what they earn. Those opposite have shown once again that they have no positive plan and no vision for Australia's future. We are a week on from their nuclear plan announcement and we are still left with no idea how much it's going to cost. All we know is that it's the Australian people who will be paying for it with their taxpayer money and with higher energy bills. We know that the CSIRO has found that the cost of power from nuclear reactors is up to eight times more expensive than firmed renewables. In reality, this coalition plan—if we can call it that—will cost Australians billions, pushing up taxes and pushing up bills.</para>
<para>Our new chair of the Climate Change Authority, Mr Kean, said today of his decision not to pursue nuclear in New South Wales, 'I didn't want to bankrupt the state … I didn't want to put those huge costs on to families.' If only those opposite took advice from the experts, as Mr Kean did! According to the coalition's timelines, the first nuclear site wouldn't be open until 2035. This is a timeline that absolutely nobody believes. The CSIRO has found that bringing nuclear online in this country would happen no sooner than 2040 if there were no delays—if. Yet coal-fired power stations are retiring within the next 10 years. The coalition want to leave a two-decade energy gap that they just can't explain to Australians. Those opposite worry about the sun not shining or the wind turbines not moving; they need to worry a lot more about how Australians will fix a two-decade black hole of energy in this country.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, our renewables plan is real—it is actually real—and it is working. The latest emissions projections released in December show we are well on track to meet our 2030 target, and that is because our current policies are working. Under Labor we've had a 25 per cent increase in renewables in the national grid. We have greenlit more than 50 renewables projects and we've seen record investment in batteries and storage. Australian business and industry say energy policy certainty is good for Australian investment, which means local jobs and growth in regions just like Gippsland—a region that knows energy. Gippsland has powered Victoria for a long time, and we need the expertise of this community to power it into the future. Gippsland is one of the proposed sites for a nuclear reactor—or perhaps two nuclear reactors, if you ask Senator Hume, who was asked whether it was Loy Yang A or Loy Yang B, and answered, 'Why not both?', pushing it to eight nuclear sites in Australia. Gippsland deserves certainty and it deserves answers. It deserves to know what the future looks like for its children, for its homes and for its businesses.</para>
<para>This is a community that knows energy. Offshore wind is a real energy future for Gippsland. It's a future that the people of Gippsland have been working towards. It comes with 7,500 ongoing jobs from the first six licenses that have just been granted, with more to come, and 15,000 jobs in the construction phase—jobs the community can count on. On the other hand, nuclear hasn't been consulted about in this community, it can't be built before coal closes, and it won't deliver the jobs that Gippsland needs and deserves. Renewables are working and they are working for Gippsland.</para>
<para>What will work for every Gippsland taxpayer is also the tax cut that they will see on 1 July and the $300 energy rebate that they will see come off their bills after 1 July. These are real plans that are actually in place. Gippslanders, Victorians and Australians deserve a government that will deliver a secure future, and that is exactly what we are doing—delivering Australians real cost-of-living relief and a real energy future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HODGINS-MAY</name>
    <name.id>310860</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind the chamber that this is not my first speech. The coalition's plan to invest in nuclear power is pure fantasy. Victorians do not want a nuclear fantasy that will cost billions. Victorians do not want more polluting coal and gas. What Victorians do want is clean, cheap, renewable energy now. Let's be clear: nuclear is a dangerous distraction from the Liberal and Labor push to open up more coal and gas mines. Both major parties benefit from this fake debate about building nuclear power stations that won't be ready for decades. Meanwhile, the climate crisis deepens, extreme weather worsens and our community suffer. I'm hearing from people right across Victoria who are strongly opposed to this nuclear fantasy. As one constituent put it, 'The Latrobe Valley doesn't have time to wait for jobs; we need them now.' Fortunately, the renewable energy sector is currently generating jobs and fostering hope throughout Gippsland. For the Greens and millions of Australians who want this stuff sorted, the answers are crystal clear: keep coal, gas and uranium in the ground. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm old enough to remember when the Labor Party promised a $275 reduction in your electricity bill, and that has not happened. That promise that was run during the lead-up to the previous federal election was unfulfilled, and Australians' energy bills, not to mention their grocery and fuel prices, continue to increase under the oversight of this Labor government. In fact, power bills have now increased by up to $1,000 for many Australians, and there's still no sign of relief in sight.</para>
<para>Furthermore, Labor and the Greens continue to lament this so-called climate crisis, espousing the narrative that, unless we drastically reduce our carbon emissions by 2030, we'll be contributing to the imminent climate apocalypse. That, by the way, for those watching at home, is the climate apocalypse that experts have been telling us for about the last 50 years will occur in the next 15 years. Let's not forget that Australia emits something like 1.16 per cent of the world's carbon emissions. China emits 29.18 per cent and the US emits 14.02 per cent. So, even if we are to accept the narrative that reducing our carbon emissions to zero would be a virtuous thing, I'm not actually sure that we're going to be able to prevent this so-called catastrophe.</para>
<para>But there is an obvious solution to this and to the energy cost issue, and that is the exploration of cheap nuclear energy as a low-emissions answer to Australia's energy crisis. Others have done this in other countries, and, had we done it earlier, we'd be a long way down the track to solving these problems. Australia, as we heard this afternoon, contains 28 per cent of the world's natural uranium resources, which is one of the largest amounts in the world. We export it to other nations all over the world to lower their electricity and energy bills, but we don't do it for ourselves. It makes no sense whatsoever.</para>
<para>This is something that will make life cheaper for Australians. It will make Australia more prosperous for future generations, as was outlaid in the 2016 Scarce royal commission in South Australia, which outlined a plan for the total nuclear fuel cycle, all while alleviating the so-called climate crisis. For Labor to try and shut this down and shut the discussion down is really tantamount to admitting that they know that it's going to work and that it's a good solution.</para>
<para>We've seen all the memes. We've seen the Blinky Bills with three eyes. We've seen the three-eyed fish make its comeback. Even today, I went to my desk to find a letter to coalition members from the member for Perth, Patrick Gorman, the Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, who wrote to people in this building today with this masterpiece, which has two paragraphs and encloses a sticker. This is the sort of stuff we're reduced to. The sticker looks like it's been cut out by someone, not very well, and printed on a bubble-jet printer. The letter invites us to visit his office and select a location on a map. This is the sort of childish stunt that we're reduced to on a serious issue, an issue which requires a slightly better narrative and discussion than simply childish tertiary politics, frankly.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not even that. I'll take that interjection, Senator Scarr.</para>
<para>Of course, Labor and the Greens don't want to admit that this long-term investment is going to pay dividends, because it undermines the agenda they've been working towards for so long. What it shows is that, at best, they're ignorant of the facts, and, at worst, they don't want to admit them, because it calls out the ideological nature of this debate.</para>
<para>If you want to reduce the costs of living and reduce the carbon emissions, nuclear energy is a sensible path forward. France is one example of a country that has demonstrated perfectly that this works. They've been doing it since the 1980s. They've enjoyed some of the lowest energy prices in Europe over those decades because of their early reliance on this technology, as have Canada. Canada have a $15 billion industry in nuclear power generation and mining, and Australia has no reason to not be involved in that. As we've said before many times—many of us have spoken about it since day one, and I'm no exception; I spoke about it in my maiden speech—of the world's 20 largest economies, Australia is the only one not using nuclear energy. Thirty-two countries across the world operate zero-emission nuclear power plants, and another 50 countries, as we speak, are looking into it. This is an absolutely—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What are you going to do with the waste?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> We're going to send it to Kimba, where it should have been. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the discussion has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>76</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Report No. 42 of 2023-24</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Auditor-General's report No. 42 of 2023-24, <inline font-style="italic">Financial statements audit: interim report on key financial controls of major entities</inline>, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>This is quite a concerning report that has been prepared by the Auditor-General. I used to sit on the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, and I have great regard for the audit process which is undertaken by the Australian National Audit Office. I note that there are some key findings in the review which has been undertaken of the governance arrangements and internal control frameworks of Commonwealth entities. This is extremely important. These are entities which are given budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars, and in some cases billions of dollars, of taxpayers' money, and it is absolutely crucial that they have in place governance arrangements which are proportionate to those funds which they are managing. There were some deeply concerning matters raised in this report, which is quite extensive, and I want to run through some of those.</para>
<para>The first is in relation to key management personnel turnover. I quote from paragraph 6 of the report's executive summary:</para>
<quote><para class="block">From 1 July 2023 to 31 January 2024—</para></quote>
<para>so that's in a period of just seven months—</para>
<quote><para class="block">there was a turnover of KMP—</para></quote>
<para>key management personnel—</para>
<quote><para class="block">in 85 per cent of entities. The average rate of turnover at these entities was 21 per cent.</para></quote>
<para>So more than one-fifth of the key management personnel were turned over at those organisations in a seven-month period. That is deeply concerning, and it raises questions as to what is happening at those organisations.</para>
<para>Second, paragraph 7, with respect to audit committee performance, says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Seventy-seven per cent of entities had undertaken a recent review of the effectiveness of their audit committee.</para></quote>
<para>The corollary is that 23 per cent of entities hadn't, and I query what those organisations are doing if they haven't undertaken a recent review of the effectiveness of their audit committees. The paragraph continues:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These reviews—</para></quote>
<para>from the ones who did the reviews—</para>
<quote><para class="block">mainly relied on self-assessments of committee performance by audit committee members …</para></quote>
<para>Well, self-assessment by the members of the audit committee themselves—and the audit committee is absolutely key to internal controls within these organisations—doesn't really cut the mustard. You actually need to have an independent review of the performance of the audit committees.</para>
<para>Then I move on to some other concerning findings. Seventy-seven per cent of entities did not meet all of the relevant requirements under the Protective Security Policy Framework, which contains the essential eight mitigation strategies and controls to mitigate cyberthreats. We then find out, in paragraph 13, that 22 of the 27 entities included in this report indicated they collected personal information and, therefore, were required to comply with the requirements of the Privacy Act and the Australian Privacy Principles, but 41 per cent of entities had not assessed their compliance with the privacy requirements under the APPs. Forty-one per cent is nearly half of the entities, so maybe 10 out of the 22 had not even assessed their compliance with the Australian Privacy Principles. It's hard to understand why that would be the case.</para>
<para>Lastly, my friend and colleague Senator Canavan will remember the Queensland payroll debacle from 2010, as will you, Acting Deputy President McGrath, when an initial payroll contract to put in place a new payroll system for the Queensland department of health blew out from an initial contract of A$6 million to A$1.4 billion. Just reflect on that: the initial contract with IBM blew out from A$6 million to A$1.2 billion. It's an example used of how not to manage large IT projects. In that context, I note that the compliance of the organisations with the standards we'd expect with respect to software development and implementation is wanting in some organisations, and that is a cause for concern.</para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regional Ministerial Budget Statement</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Minister for Regional Development, Local Government and Territories, Ms McBain, I table the 2024-25 regional budget statement.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Adopting Artificial Intelligence (AI) Select Committee, Australia's Disaster Resilience Select Committee, Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Community Affairs References Committee, Cost of Living Select Committee, Economics Legislation Committee, Economics References Committee, Education and Employment Legislation Committee, Education and Employment References Committee, Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, Environment and Communications References Committee, Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee, Finance and Public Administration References Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Joint Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, Human Rights Joint Committee, Impact of Climate Risk on Insurance Select Committee, Implementation of the National Redress Scheme—Joint Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee, Perth Mint and Commonwealth Regulatory Compliance Select Committee, Public Accounts and Audit Joint Committee, Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee, Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! The President has received letters requesting changes in the membership of various committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Adopting Artificial Intelligence — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's Disaster Resilience — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Cost of Living — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade — Joint Standing Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Payman</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Payman</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Human Rights — Joint Statutory Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Grogan</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Impact of Climate Risk on Insurance — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Antic, Askew, Birmingham, Bragg, Brockman, Cadell, Canavan, Cash, Chandler, Colbeck, Darmanin, Davey, Duniam, Fawcett, Henderson, Hughes, Hume, Kovacic, Liddle, McDonald, McGrath, McKenzie, Nampijinpa Price, O'Sullivan, Paterson, David Pocock, Rennick, Reynolds, Ruston, Scarr and Dean Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Implementation of the National Redress Scheme — Joint Standing Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Perth Mint — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating member: Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public Accounts and Audit — Joint Statutory Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Grogan</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation and References Committees —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Walsh</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Darmanin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Walsh.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025, Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7187" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 5) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7188" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 6) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7186" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7190" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2024-2025</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7189" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2024-2025</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">APPROPRIATION BILL (NO. 5) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, the Government introduces 2023-24 Supplementary Additional Estimates Appropriation Bills. They are Appropriation Bills 5 and 6. These Bills underpin the Government's expenditure decisions made since the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook that relate to the 2023-24 financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill 5 seeks approval for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund of $2.1 billion. This would ensure there is sufficient appropriation to cover estimate variations related to existing programs, for instance, changes in costs for demand driven programs. These Bills also pay for the first-year costs of measures announced in the 2024-25 Budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill provides funding to support the following significant items.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Social Services will receive over $1 billion, with the majority of funding for the National Disability Insurance Agency to provide reasonable and necessary supports for National Disability Insurance Scheme participants. Services Australia will also receive over $93 million to support the delivery of government payments to Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of the Treasury will receive $525 million to facilitate the increase in the grants composition of the $1 billion provided for social housing under the National Housing Infrastructure Facility in 2023-24, with the funding to be targeted towards crisis and transitional accommodation for women and children fleeing domestic violence, and youth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Defence will receive over $92 million. This primarily reflects the funding required to support Defence capabilities prioritised in the 2024 National Defence Strategy and major Defence operations undertaken in 2023-24.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Health and Aged Care will receive over $77 million, including over $37 million to support access to opioid dependence treatment and $20 million to support older Australians in receiving appropriate care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the proposed expenditure are set out in the Schedule to the Bill, the Explanatory Memorandum, and the Portfolio Supplementary Additional Estimates Statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APPROPRIATION BILL (NO. 6) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill seeks approval for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund of $453.5 million for the 2023-24 financial year. These appropriations will support the following significant items. The Department of Defence will receive close to $453 million, reflecting a reclassification from operating to capital, to support the delivery of capabilities prioritised in the 2024 National Defence Strategy. Full details of the proposed expenditure are set out in the schedule to the bill, the explanatory memorandum and the portfolio supplementary additional estimates. I commend this bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APPROPRIATION BILL (NO. 1) 2024-2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill, Appropriation Bill 1, along with Appropriation Bill 2 and Parliamentary Departments Appropriation Bill 1, are the principal Bills underpinning the Government's Budget. Together, they provide annual appropriations for 2024-25.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill 1 seeks approval for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund of $162.6 billion. Funding provided through this Bill will support the following significant items.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Social Services portfolio will receive over $45 billion, with most of the funding provided for the National Disability Insurance Agency to provide reasonable and necessary supports for National Disability Insurance Scheme participants. Services Australia will receive close to $5.5 billion to ensure the delivery of government payments to Australians, extend its emergency response capability, enhance safety and security for staff and customers, sustain the myGov platform and support other government agencies to deliver Government priorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Defence portfolio will receive close to $44.8 billion, including just under $42 billion for the Department of Defence to implement the 2024 National Defence Strategy and Integrated Investment Program, including for nuclear-powered submarines and prioritising partnerships in the Indo-Pacific. The Australian Signals Directorate will receive close to $1.7 billion to continue to deliver on the Government's foreign signals intelligence and cyber security objectives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Health and Aged Care will receive over $16.7 billion to implement various programs to ensure the current and future health needs of all Australians are met through the delivery of evidence-based health policy, improved access to comprehensive and coordinated health care, and protection of the health and safety of the Australian community. Funding includes over $5.7 billion to provide support for older Australians with everyday living and other needs; $1.9 billion for the health workforce; $1.5 billion for mental health; over $1.2 billion for First Nations people health and $1.0 billion to support access to medicines and vaccines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade will receive over $7.2 billion to advance Australia's international strategic and security interests, provide development assistance overseas and consular assistance to Australians abroad. Funding will support enhanced engagement across Southeast Asia and the Pacific, with the aim of increasing trade and investment opportunities, protecting international rules, and keeping our region safe.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Treasury portfolio will receive over $6.5 billion, with over $4.3 billion provided for the Australian Taxation Office to administer the taxation and superannuation systems, including major tax compliance taskforces. This includes new funding for the Counter Fraud Strategy, and to implement the Government's policy for Digital ID.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Home Affairs will receive over $5.7 billion to implement various programs to ensure Australia's security, prosperity and unity by safeguarding national security interests and improving cyber security and security of critical infrastructure assets, enabling economic growth and maintaining Australia's cohesive multicultural society. The funding will also enable the Department to continue to reform the migration framework and maintain the integrity of the migration system, sustain visa processing capability, provide settlement services to refugees and migrants and protect the Australian border.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Employment and Workplace Relations will receive just under $4.8 billion, including approximately $2.4 billion to support employment services and $2.2 billion to support vocational education and training.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with 2023-24, Appropriation Bill 1 also contains an Advance to the Finance Minister (AFM) provision of $400 million to provide the Government with the capacity to allocate additional appropriations for urgent and unforeseen expenditure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the proposed expenditure are set out in the Schedule to the Bill, the Explanatory Memorandum, and the Portfolio Budget Statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APPROPRIATION BILL (NO. 2) 2024-2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill, Appropriation Bill 2, along with Appropriation Bill 1 and Parliamentary Departments Appropriation Bill 1, are the Budget Appropriation Bills for 2024-25.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill 2 seeks approval for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund of $24.6 billion, incorporating decisions from the 2024-25 Budget. I now outline the most significant items provided for in this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Defence will receive close to $10.6 billion to support the implementation of the 2024 National Defence Strategy, including through major investments in military capabilities, as well as enabling ICT capabilities and infrastructure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts will receive approximately $4.6 billion, including funding for Government Business Enterprises to continue to deliver projects, including the Australian Rail Track Corporation for the Inland Rail Program, WSA Co for Western Sydney International Airport, the NBN Co for the election commitment to Boost Fibre and Fast-Track the NBN Repair Job and funding for the Roads to Recovery program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water will receive over $2.5 billion, including $1.6 billion to Snowy Hydro Limited to support continued construction of Snowy 2.0. Close to $650 million for Rewiring the Nation will be provided to continue expanding and modernising Australia's electricity grids at lowest cost, unlocking new renewables and storage capacity and driving down power prices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Finance will receive over $1.5 billion, including additional equity for Comcover and Australian Naval Infrastructure and a Snowy Hydro Limited construction loan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of the Treasury will receive over $1.5 billion to provide funding for concessional loans to support social and affordable housing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Signals Directorate will receive over $1 billion to deliver major capital investments in foreign signals intelligence and cyber capabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with 2023-24, Appropriation Bill 2 also contains an Advance to the Finance Minister (AFM) provision of $600 million to provide the Government with the capacity to allocate additional appropriations for urgent and unforeseen expenditure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also sets debit limits for payments under the Federal Financial Relations Actthat will apply in 2024-25 and they are:</para></quote>
<list>$5 billion for general purpose financial assistance; and</list>
<list>$37 billion for national partnership payments.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the proposed expenditure are set out in the Schedules to the Bill, the Explanatory Memorandum, and the Portfolio Budget Statements. I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APPROPRIATION (PARLIAMENTARY DEPARTMENTS) BILL (NO. 1) 2024-2025</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Parliamentary Departments Appropriation Bill 1 provides appropriations for decisions taken by Government in the 2024-25 Budget for the operations of Parliamentary Departments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill seeks approval for appropriations from the Consolidated Revenue Fund of $326.7 million. Funding provided through this Bill will support the following significant items of Parliamentary Departments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Parliamentary Services will receive over $257 million to support the work of the Australian Parliament, through services to parliamentarians and as custodians of Parliament House. This includes additional funding to modernise ICT systems, including broadcasting, and undertake building upgrades at Parliament House.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also includes an Advance to the responsible Presiding Officer of $1.9 million.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the proposed expenditure are set out in the Schedule to the Bill, the Explanatory Memorandum, and the Portfolio Budget Statements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Net Zero Economy Authority Bill 2024, Net Zero Economy Authority (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7177" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Net Zero Economy Authority Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7178" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Net Zero Economy Authority (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the bills and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">NET ZERO ECONOMY AUTHORITY BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One of Australia's first coal fired power stations started in Yallourn in Victoria in the 1920s.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was powered by the vast brown coal deposits of the Latrobe Valley.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Over the coming decade, Australia's first offshore wind turbines will also start to run in the waters off the Latrobe Valley.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Harnessing the power of the Bass Strait Winds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Generations of Australians have powered this nation safely, reliably and with dignity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill helps ensure they will continue to for generations to come.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Working together to power every part of our nation and every one of us.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The way we power Australia will change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But those who do it will not.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The target is clear—achieve net zero emissions by 2050 to avoid the most dangerous impacts of climate change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The pathway is clear—power our industries, light our homes, our businesses and fuel our transport with clean energy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is determined that Australian workers and Australian ingenuity will get us there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the Prime Minister has said, we can be a renewable energy superpower.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can not only power our transformation but that of the rest of the world as well.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But it may not happen automatically.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The opportunities will not seize themselves.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the race to net zero accelerates—and it is a race—we must ensure Australian workers and communities are supported to play their part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know there are communities in which the experience of the transition will be most concentrated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government knows that we must support these communities and those that live in them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government also knows the critical role it can play.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To better coordinate programs and policies, to attract investors and help communities make the most of the transformation opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will engage major stakeholders in the decision making and support structures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will help deliver Australia's future as a renewable energy superpower.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will leave no one behind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the net zero global economy of the future, it is hard to imagine where else you would rather be.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Where else than Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Home to abundant renewable energy sources.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To every metal and critical mineral essential to net zero technologies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our geography has gifted us much.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But only by working together will we be able to grab the opportunities of the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Previous government</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Less than two years ago, the approach of the Australian Government was very different.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australia Government had:</para></quote>
<list>No legislated target for net zero.</list>
<list>No legislated target for emissions reduction.</list>
<list>No settled approach to the energy transition.</list>
<list>No plan to bring our electricity gird into the 21st century.</list>
<list>No policy to ensure replacement capacity of the 24 coal plants that announced closure dates</list>
<quote><para class="block">Back then, the Australian Government could not even agree to a long term energy policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One former Liberal Premier went so far as to describe it as a:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'slow-moving train wreck.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the time since, Australia has changed significantly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Albanese government</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last month the Prime Minister described the history of the Liddell Power Station.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">He explained:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'It's a snapshot of the economic and energy transformation underway in Australia, particularly in regional Australia.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'A journey that every advanced economy has embarked on.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'And a race that Australia can win.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the 2022 election, the Albanese Government has acted to address climate change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have also put Australia on the path to becoming a renewable energy superpower.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With over $40 billion invested in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This includes:</para></quote>
<list>The $20 billion Rewiring the Nation program to modernise our electricity grid and infrastructure so it can support a renewable energy based energy system.</list>
<list>The $1.9 billion Powering the Regions Fund to support the decarbonisation of existing industries and the creation of new clean energy industries.</list>
<list>The $4 billion Critical Minerals Facility to grow our critical minerals production sector.</list>
<list>The $2 billion Hydrogen Headstart Program supporting development of large-scale renewable hydrogen projects.</list>
<list>The $15 billion National Reconstruction Fund, to diversify and transform Australia's industry for a net zero economy.</list>
<quote><para class="block">We have also supported Australian industries, workers and communities to participate in the shift to net zero.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">First with the establishment of the Net Zero Economy Agency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And now with the introduction of this Bill, to establish the Net Zero Economy Authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Net Zero Economy Authority</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Net Zero Economy Authority will be a new statutory agency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Its functions will be to:</para></quote>
<list>Coordinate policy and planning.</list>
<list>Facilitate both public and private participation and investment.</list>
<list>Support affected workers.</list>
<list>Support First Nation Australians to participate in the transition.</list>
<list>And deliver educational and promotional initiatives as Australia transitions to a net zero emissions economy.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Net Zero Economy Authority's mission will be to promote orderly and positive economic transformation for Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For regions and workers, as the world decarbonises.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This recognises that the way in which we navigate economic transformation is as important as reaching the destination of a net zero economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As emissions-intensive industries and technologies decarbonise, the Authority will help ensure Australians can access the opportunities new net zero industries bring.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Communities</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is critical that we support workers and communities throughout the transition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will be a partner, on behalf of Government, with industry and investors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will help to get the big transformational projects happening.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For example:</para></quote>
<list>Projects that decarbonise industrial facilities in central Queensland.</list>
<list>Build new industries in the Spencer Gulf and Pilbara.</list>
<list>And grow the future economic base for our regions like the Hunter and La Trobe.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will work with project proponents, state governments and others to get projects to investment decision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will mobilise public and private financing support, address enabling infrastructure needs and navigate regulatory processes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will be the Government shop-front for industry and investors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping as they seize the opportunities of Australia's transformation to a net zero economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will assist our regions to become the economic powerhouses of our future net zero economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Industrial regions like Gladstone, the Hunter Valley, Latrobe Valley, Upper Spencer Gulf and the Pilbara, have powered Australia's economy for generations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This can and should continue the transition to net zero.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will help place these regions in a position to continue to play the vital role they always have.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will also play an important role in supporting community understanding of the transformation to a net zero emissions economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ensuring Australians are engaged in the process and confident in its outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government wants to be a partner with communities in navigating the change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Especially in regions where the changes will be more significant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And with First Nations Australians, providing opportunities for economic advancement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By partnering with workers and communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By building understanding and relationships.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We can ensure that no one is left behind as we build the industries and jobs that underpin our future prosperity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Workers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will ensure workers receive the support they need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority will work with employers, unions and others to assist workers to engage in new opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of this, the Bill will establish the legislative framework for an Energy Industry Jobs Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Administered by the Authority, the Plan will enable the use of pooled redeployment arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These will support workers in closing coal-fired power stations and closing gas-fired generators, and their dependent suppliers to transition directly to a new job.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Workers in a closing facility will have opportunities to be redeployed into a new job with another employer in the same or a similar industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Closing and dependent employers will be encouraged to participate voluntarily.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our largest coal fired power stations are run by mature corporations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They often have strong plans in place to support their workforce as they prepare for closures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We expect many of them will put their hand up to participate in the Energy Industry Jobs Plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill provides the Fair Work Commission with powers to require their participation as a failsafe to make sure the transition is orderly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It enlivens enforceable obligations for those closing employers to provide transitional support to their employees, subject to operational requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Authority would encourage receiving employers to participate voluntarily.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill does not include compulsory participation of receiving employers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those receiving employers that put their hand up will be in pole position to grab highly skilled and experienced workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This community of interested employers will give workers the greatest opportunity to secure alternative employment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed model for the plan reflects the outcomes of detailed consultations with employee and employer groups.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is about supporting workers on the frontline of the energy transition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And supporting businesses to access the skills and experience they value.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping workers and their families stay in place helps communities stay whole.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Helping some businesses with challenging closures and others to deliver ambitious growth targets means making regional economies more robust and resilient.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholder support</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The global economy is experiencing the biggest transformation since the industrial revolution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The spectrum of stakeholders for the transition to net zero is wide.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is why it is so pleasing that the Government's approach has such broad support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jennifer Westacott, the former Business Council Chief Executive, described it:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… as an opportunity for better jobs and better living standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Innes Willox, Chief Executive of the national employer association Ai Group, said it:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… can play an essential and positive role in helping regions like the Hunter, the Latrobe Valley and Gladstone to reach new phases of success.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And Steve Murphy, National Secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union, explained:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It delivers on the promise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is what this Government has done and what this Bill will do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will ensure across Australia, local communities are able to enjoy the opportunities of our future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to especially thank Greg Combet, the Chair of the Net Zero Economy Agency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Along with the many dedicated public servants that have been part of the Agency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Their work has helped to ensure the Government's approach has broad support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill builds on this support and enshrines it within the operation of the Authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will be led by an expertise-based board.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With a stakeholder panel as a dedicated forum for information and insights from different stakeholder groups.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian workers and communities have long played a central role in the energy industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under this Government, they will continue to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As we transition to net zero, opportunities will emerge.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With this Bill, Australians will be positioned to grab these opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will support workers and industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Communities and regions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The transition to net zero will push us through the doors of opportunity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We must not let them close behind us along the way.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But keep them wide open so all Australians can get through.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the House.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">NET ZERO ECONOMY AUTHORITY (TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Net Zero Economy Authority (Transitional Provisions) Bill 2024 enables the Net Zero Economy Agency, currently an Executive Agency within the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet to transition to a standalone statutory authority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill:</para></quote>
<list>Supports the establishment of the Authority as it facilitates the appointment of the first Chief Executive Office of the Authority.</list>
<list>Provides the meeting requirements of the Board in its first calendar year.</list>
<list>And ensures the ongoing operation of the Enterprise Agreement that applies to APS employees currently working for the Executive Agency.</list>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Postal Corporation and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024, Criminal Code Amendment (Protecting Commonwealth Frontline Workers) Bill 2024, Excise and Customs Legislation Amendment (Streamlining Administration) Bill 2024, Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Assignment of Medicare Benefits) Bill 2024, Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (More Support in the Safety Net) Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (Delivering Better Financial Outcomes and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Market Infrastructure and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7171" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Postal Corporation and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7175" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Criminal Code Amendment (Protecting Commonwealth Frontline Workers) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7185" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Excise and Customs Legislation Amendment (Streamlining Administration) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7194" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Assignment of Medicare Benefits) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7197" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (More Support in the Safety Net) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7180" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Delivering Better Financial Outcomes and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7176" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Market Infrastructure and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present an addendum to the replacement explanatory memorandum relating to the Australian Postal Corporation and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024 and a revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Treasury Laws Amendment (Delivering Better Financial Outcomes and Other Measures) Bill 2024 and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">AUSTRALIAN POSTAL CORPORATION AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Australian Postal Corporation and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2024</inline> will strengthen regulatory regimes for international mail screening, inspection, and where warranted, intervention.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The postal sector is in rapid transformation and responding to changes in technology, consumer preferences and markets, including eCommerce driving substantial growth of international parcels.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's international mail gateways, where incoming and outgoing mail is screened and processed, are being placed under increasing pressure due to rising volumes and growing threats to Australia's biosecurity and national security.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is essential that Australia is well equipped to mitigate and respond to any risks that arise in the mail stream. This is why the Government is ensuring the legislation that governs the security of postal articles continues to be fit for purpose, and provides operational flexibility so our border agencies can adapt and lawfully respond to the changing threat environment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to these issues and challenges, the Bill will make amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989</inline>, to improve the operation of the information sharing arrangements between Australia Post and border agencies, and the rules for opening and examination of postal articles.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill contains measures that will enhance the disclosure of information and documents in relation to postal articles between Australia Post and government agencies. A new exception will be introduced to the disclosure regime to better facilitate information sharing with Commonwealth, State and Territory bodies to assist in the performance of their functions or duties. This will provide greater clarity on the agencies and purposes for which Australia Post is able to share information and documents. Existing exceptions will continue to apply.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Information sharing arrangements will be further enhanced by new provisions that will permit secondary disclosures of information and documents between government agencies, under strict parameters. This will support border protection and law enforcement outcomes and ensure alignment across levels of government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures for enhanced information sharing arrangements have been designed with appropriate privacy safeguards and are reasonable, appropriate and justified.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia Post and border agencies have consistently raised concerns about ambiguities in the current law due to changes in the way technology has been employed to support processing and screening of articles, and evolving risks in the mail stream.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill therefore contains a number of amendments to simplify terminology and legislative processes to provide greater certainty to Australia Post employees, and customs and biosecurity officers, when exercising their legislative powers and functions for the inspection and examination of mail, and ease the burden of compliance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Another key element of the Bill is a new measure to ensure that as the threat environment changes, postal articles suspected of containing explosive, dangerous and injurious goods are able to be handled appropriately and safely. The amendments will incorporate these provisions currently contained in Australia Post's terms and conditions into legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also make minor and technical amendments to clarify the operation of certain provisions of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Postal Corporation Act 1989, </inline>and minor consequential amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995 </inline>for consistency with amendments to the Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is proposed Schedule 1 to the Bill would commence on proclamation, but not later than 6 months after the Royal Assent. This will allow sufficient time for Australia Post and border agencies to prepare for any necessary operational changes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In summary, the proposed amendments will contribute to immediate enhancements to Australia's border protection, biosecurity and national security, and provide greater flexibility for Australia Post and border agencies to lawfully deal with current and emerging security risks in the mail stream.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">CRIMINAL CODE AMENDMENT (PROTECTING COMMONWEALTH FRONTLINE WORKERS) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is introducing the Criminal Code Amendment (Protecting Commonwealth Frontline Workers) Bill 2024 to strengthen protections for Commonwealth frontline workers, who are increasingly subjected to acts of violence or aggression from members of the public. This violence and aggression can have devastating impacts on frontline workers and their families as well as on the broader safety and operation of Commonwealth workplaces.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Services Australia Security Risk Management Review was commissioned after a serious assault on a staff member at a Services Australia Service Centre in 2023 and conducted by Mr Graham Ashton. Mr Ashton made 44 recommendations to increase staff safety and deter acts of aggression. The Government has committed to implementing all 44 of those recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will implement recommendation 18 of the Ashton Review by amending the Commonwealth Criminal Code to increase the penalties available for causing harm, or threatening to cause serious harm, to a Commonwealth public official where the official is also a Commonwealth frontline worker.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments will align the penalties for causing harm, or threatening to cause serious harm to a Commonwealth frontline worker with the penalties applicable for the same conduct against a Commonwealth judicial officer or Commonwealth law enforcement officer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Specifically, the penalty for conduct that causes harm to a Commonwealth frontline worker under section 147.1(1) of the Criminal Code will increase from a maximum of 10 years to 13 years' imprisonment. Similarly, the penalty for conduct that threatens to cause serious harm to a Commonwealth frontline worker under section 147.2(1) of the Criminal Code will increase from a maximum of 7 years to 9 years' imprisonment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill defines 'Commonwealth frontline worker' as a Commonwealth public official who performs work requiring the person to deal directly (whether or not in person) with the public, or a class of the public, as a primary function of their role. This reflects the diversity of Commonwealth frontline worker roles, from service delivery to regulatory functions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Commonwealth frontline workers are in service centres and call centres across Australia. Commonwealth frontline workers are also out in the community performing essential outreach in our communities, providing access to government payments following emergencies or natural disasters, and safeguarding the integrity of government programs through monitoring and enforcement activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments send a strong message that the Albanese Government values the contributions made by our frontline workers and that violence and aggression towards those workers is unacceptable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an important step towards creating safer Commonwealth workplaces.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I acknowledge the strong support of the Minister for Government Services for the measures in this Bill and I commend the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">EXCISE AND CUSTOMS LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (STREAMLINING ADMINISTRATION) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian government has a strong commitment to reduce excessive and unnecessary regulation and administrative costs for businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will deliver significant deregulation benefits for businesses who engage in the manufacture, importation and distribution of fuel and alcohol.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in this Bill, together with amendments to subordinate legislation, implement the remaining elements of the <inline font-style="italic">'Streamlining the administration of fuel and alcohol excise package</inline>'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A first tranche of measures from this package were legislated as part of <inline font-style="italic">Treasury Laws Amendment (Refining and Improving our Tax System) Act 2023 </inline>and took effect on 1 July 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those measures have improved reporting arrangements for small businesses by aligning the excise and customs reporting with other indirect taxes, and support innovation in the beer industry by allowing the small-scale sale of 'growlers' from licenced hospitality venues without attracting excise duty and licence obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill implements the remaining measures of the deregulation package.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will remove unnecessary regulatory touch points by ensuring that businesses dealing with dutiable alcohol or fuel will no longer need to renew their excise or customs warehouse licences which permit the storage of excise equivalent goods (customs EEG warehouse).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the Bill will provide an immediate and ongoing cash saving for those businesses by removing fees and charges associated with excise and customs EEG warehouse licences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The licencing process will also be simplified. Business with multiple manufacturing or warehousing sites around Australia, will now be able to apply to consolidate each of their excise and customs EEG warehouse licences into corresponding single 'entity-level' licences. This will allow business to easily apply to add or remove sites from their licence without the need of going through the full onerous licence application process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A new arrangement that allows freer movement of dutiable goods between licenced sites will be provided. Approved businesses will no longer need to seek regulator permission each time they wish to move or supply their excisable goods to and from other excise licenced businesses or excise-equivalent goods to and from other customs EEG warehouses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will also make it easier and timelier for businesses to access information they need, allowing businesses to readily identify licensed entities without having to contact regulators and wait for a reply. This will be achieved by the creation of a new on-line public register of all excise and customs licencees that manufacture, store and warehouse fuel or alcohol products.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, this Bill will remove unnecessary administrative burdens for onshore oil producers by removing the requirement that they hold excise licences, unless the relevant production threshold is exceeded.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to removing unnecessary administrative and compliance burdens for businesses, reducing costs and helping keep prices lower.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill complements the continued support the government currently provides to local brewers and distillers who receive an automatic full remission of any excise duty they would otherwise have paid on the alcohol they produce up to a cap of $350,000 each financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measures are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">HEALTH INSURANCE LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (ASSIGNMENT OF MEDICARE BENEFITS) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Assignment of Medicare Benefits) Bill 2024 represents more progress on the Government's commitment to strengthen Medicare for the needs of modern Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will make critically needed improvements to make it easier for GPs and health professionals to bulk bill their patients, by updating the assignment of benefit process, which underpins bulk billed Medicare services and 'simplified billing'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will modernise the assignment of benefits process, bring it into the 21st century and help to further safeguard Medicare from fraud. This upgrade has been sorely needed for many years now. GPs have long complained of an overly complex and onerous paperwork process that is inefficient and holds back productivity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since coming into Government, we've invested in measures to help GPs and health professionals deliver the care Australians need. Stopping the slide in the bulk billing rate has been front of mind—and our record investment into bulk billing in last year's Budget has succeeded in that effort—leading to increase bulk billing in every state and territory across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We want to do everything we can to make it easier for patients to be bulk billed and support Australians' access to timely and affordable healthcare.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will also address simplified billing, which relates to assignments by patients who are privately insured, for hospital or hospital-substitute treatment that is covered by their policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In both cases the assignment of benefit enables the right to payment of a Medicare benefit, which is payable for eligible patients, to be transferred to healthcare providers in exchange for zero or low out-of-pocket expenses for the patient.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments are required to protect the integrity of Medicare payments and to reduce the administrative burden of regulatory compliance. The Australian National Audit Office (ANAO), in its 2022-23 Expansion of Telehealth report, also identified the potential incompatibility of 'verbal assignment' for bulk billed telehealth services with current legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will support the Government's ongoing commitment to bulk billing, complementing the $3.5 billion measure to triple bulk billing incentives in the 2023-24 Budget, and maintain simplified billing to reduce or eliminate out-of-pocket costs for privately insured patients.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Modernising and making assignment of benefit easier for patients and providers will preserve goodwill toward and trust of the Medicare program in its fortieth year and beyond.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to industry feedback, amendments under this Bill streamline bulk billing and simplified billing processes. The Bill goes further than telehealth, as the amendments reform assignment of benefit broadly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One aspect of the Bill is to support more efficient and effective claiming processes (including use of digital technologies) and provide for appropriate protections to ensure the integrity of Medicare for future generations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The current requirement for an 'approved form' would be replaced with requirements prescribed in regulations, enabling digital solutions that give Government and stakeholders the flexibility to leverage existing interactions with patients, such as appointment booking, patient registration, hospital admission processes and informed financial consent discussions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For simplified billing, where health insurers and approved billing agents manage claims for patients receiving hospital and hospital-substitute treatment, the bill will make use of health insurance coverage including insurer agreements with hospitals and 'no gap' or 'known gap' arrangements with practitioners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Specifying requirements in regulations proposed to be made under the bill, subject to consideration by the Governor-General in Council, will have the benefit of future proofing the processes and ensuring they are adaptable as technology advances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will enable a patient to assign a Medicare benefit before or after a professional service is rendered. This is a change advocated by key stakeholders, along with capability for enduring assignment agreements in some scenarios.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendments are also required to protect and reinforce the integrity of Medicare without introducing unnecessary administrative burden for stakeholders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Medicare payment integrity will be supported through improving the provision of information relevant to patients' understanding of their treatment and the associated costs including notifying the patient of claims for benefits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also improve record keeping requirements, supporting auditability. The focus will be on flexibly using information already collected by the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Medical industry, hospital and private health insurance stakeholders have voiced support for legislative changes to simplify and modernise the <inline font-style="italic">Health Insurance Act 1973</inline>; to improve transparency for patients while ensuring minimal administrative burden for healthcare providers and insurers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To conclude, this Bill supports the Medicare Benefits Schedule and modernises and simplifies the assignment of benefits process to provide patients' continued access to timely and subsidised care. Amendments will improve Medicare payment integrity and benefits both patients and providers, ultimately resulting in better healthcare outcomes for Australians.   .The Albanese Government is determined to make it easier and cheaper for people to access high quality care where and when they need it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will help to deliver this and further strengthen Medicare for the needs of modern Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SOCIAL SERVICES AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (MORE SUPPORT IN THE SAFETY NET) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (More Support in the Safety Net) Bill 2024 delivers targeted assistance to further strengthen Australia's social security safety net.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It builds on the Government's safety net measures in the last Budget, which increased working age and student payments by $40 a fortnight, expanded eligibility for the higher rate of JobSeeker, expanded Parenting Payment Single to parents until their youngest child turns 14, and increased maximum rates of Commonwealth Rent Assistance by 15 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together with last year's investments, the measures in this Bill represent an additional $11.5 billion investment in the social security system, providing more assistance to Australians on some of the lowest incomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2024-25 alone, it is estimated over $143 billion will be spent on social security and family payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government knows that access to secure and affordable housing has significant social, economic and personal benefits. And in the current context, we recognise many people are still struggling with high rental costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is why, as part of this Bill, the Government will increase Commonwealth Rent Assistance maximum rates by a further 10 per cent, providing recipients with more support to manage rental pressures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This builds on our increase in the previous Budget, providing the first back-to-back increases to rent assistance in over 30 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This further increase means that, combined with indexation, by   .20 September 2024, when this measure is due to commence, maximum rates of Rent Assistance will have increased by over 40 per cent since the Albanese Government was elected in May 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And regular indexation will be applied on top, on the same day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Commonwealth Rent Assistance is the most effective policy lever the Government has to provide immediate, targeted assistance for low income households in private rentals. This latest measure will help address the pressure associated with housing costs for close to a million households.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second measure delivered by this Bill will extend eligibility for the higher rate of JobSeeker Payment to single recipients who have been assessed as only being able to work less than 15 hours per week due to a physical, intellectual or psychiatric impairment. This higher rate is currently $816.90 per fortnight and goes to single recipients with dependent children and single recipients aged 55 and over who are on payment for 9 or more continuous months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through this measure, additional assistance will be targeted to recipients with a significantly reduced capacity to work, recognising the barriers they face to supplement their income support with earnings from work and the financial strain this can create.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure will bring around 4,700 additional existing recipients onto the higher rate of JobSeeker Payment, better reflecting their needs and circumstances and supporting them with their daily living costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On average, recipients with a partial capacity to work of less than 15 hours remain on payment for almost twice as long as those without a partial capacity to work and are less likely to experience the benefit of work, with only 9 per cent reporting earnings on average each fortnight.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Of those who will benefit from this measure, 36 per cent are women, 34 per cent live in regional and remote Australia and 14 per cent are First Nations people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Combined with a higher rate of Energy Supplement, these recipients will receive at least an additional $54.90 per fortnight before indexation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Subject to the passage of this Bill, this measure will commence from 20 September 2024. This is the same day as regular indexation of JobSeeker Payment, which means the actual increase will be higher.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure builds on our changes to payments in the last Budget, including the $40 per fortnight base rate increase for working age and student payments and extending the higher rate of JobSeeker Payment to single Australians aged 55 and over who have been on payment long term, down from 60.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Expanding eligibility for the higher JobSeeker rate to these cohorts is designed to strengthen the system, by better targeting support to people based on their age, stage and circumstances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the Government was elected in May 2022, the base single rate of JobSeeker Payment has increased by $120 per fortnight, or 18.7 per cent, providing over $3,100 in additional support each year. This is the largest nominal increase in a two-year period ever and the largest two-year increase in real terms—7.4 per cent, in more than 40 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And for those cohorts moving from the base rate to the higher rate, they are over $4,500 a year better off since May 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Alongside this targeted increase in income support, the Government remains committed to our workforce participation agenda.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The third measure of this Bill—to introduce more flexibility for Carer Payment recipients to manage their work commitments and caring responsibilities, aligns with the Government's roadmap in the Employment White Paper to remove barriers to employment and improve workforce participation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This includes provisions to change the 25 hour per week participation limit for Carer Payment recipients to instead allow up to 100 hours over a 4-week settlement period, effective from 20 March 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Changes will also be made to ensure education and volunteering activities will no longer be counted in the participation limit. Travel time will also be removed through related policy changes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, Carer Payment can be cancelled if the 25 hour limit per week is exceeded. As well as greater flexibility, this measure also introduces a 6-month suspension period for recipients who work over the new 100 hour limit, meaning if their circumstances change they won't need to reapply to access the Carer Payment. They will also retain their Pensioner Concession Card during this period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Policy changes will also provide for the use of single Temporary Cessation of Care days for one-off or occasional instances of exceeding the participation hours limit. Currently, carers receive 63 respite days annually—which they can use for any purpose in 7-day blocks. This change means that they can opt to use one day of their 63 day annual allocation, in instances where they only require a single respite day.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Combined, these changes are designed to give carers—who are predominantly women—greater flexibility and choice to structure their work, study or volunteering commitments around their caring responsibilities. This is expected to particularly benefit people who care for those with episodic or fluctuating conditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The removal of travel time from the participation limit will particularly assist carers who live in regional and remote areas and are more likely to need to travel further for work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Around 31,000 Carer Payment recipients currently report employment earnings and may benefit from these changes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure responds to recommendations in the Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee's 2024 Report and the 2020 Productivity Commission Inquiry into Mental Health. The changes have also been called for by stakeholders, advocacy groups and recipients of Carer Payment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a result of this Bill:</para></quote>
<list>Combined with a higher rate of Energy Supplement, a single JobSeeker Payment recipient with a capacity to work of less than 15 hours per week, will receive at least an additional $54.90 per fortnight in support.</list>
<list>A single person with 3 children receiving the maximum rate of Commonwealth Rent Assistance will receive an additional $25.06 per fortnight in Rent Assistance.</list>
<list>A single JobSeeker Payment recipient who has been assessed as having a partial capacity to work of less than 15 hours, living alone, and receives the maximum rate of Commonwealth Rent Assistance, can receive at least an additional $73.70 per fortnight in total.</list>
<list>A Carer Payment recipient is now able to take up work more flexibly to suit their caring needs and participate in study or volunteering to set up employment opportunities once their caring obligations finish.</list>
<quote><para class="block">These measures provide responsible relief, including to some of the most vulnerable in our community, and help to remove barriers to work for carers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (DELIVERING BETTER FINANCIAL OUTCOMES AND OTHER MEASURES) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 to the Bill delivers the first tranche of the Delivering Better Financial Outcomes package, the Government's response to the Quality of Advice review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It amends the <inline font-style="italic">Corporations Act 2001</inline> to streamline ongoing fee renewal and consent requirements into a single form, provide more flexibility for advice providers in how financial services guide requirements can be met, simplify the rules banning conflicted remuneration and introduce new consumer consent requirements for certain insurance commissions. This schedule also amends the <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation Industry (Supervision) 1993</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997</inline> to provide a clear legal basis for the payment of advice fees from superannuation and associated tax consequences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments support improved access to affordable financial advice for millions of Australians by cutting onerous red tape that adds to the cost of advice with no benefit to consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Explanatory Memorandum clarifies that trustees will be able to continue using robust risk-based assurance processes when complying with section 99FA of <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation Industry (Supervision) 1993</inline>. Trustees with assurance frameworks that are consistent with existing guidance from the Regulators on paying advice fees from superannuation will be able to continue with their existing practices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 to the Bill updates the petroleum resource rent tax general anti-avoidance rules so that they align with the more robust approach of the general anti-avoidance provisions contained in Part IVA of the <inline font-style="italic">Income Tax Assessment Act 1936</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 to the Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Petroleum Resource Rent Tax Assessment Act 1987</inline> to clarify the meaning of the phrase 'exploration for petroleum'. It also clarifies that mining, quarrying or prospecting rights cannot be depreciated for income tax purposes until they are used, not merely held and the circumstances in which the issue of new rights over areas covered by existing rights lead to income tax adjustments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 to the Bill amends domestic legislation governing Australia's agreements with international financial institutions to automatically incorporate amendments made to the treaties between Australia and these institutions. This reflects modern drafting practises and will avoid administratively burdensome processes, helping Australia honour its commitments to the international financial institutions that we are a member of.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 5 to the Bill amends various laws in the Treasury portfolio to ensure those laws operate in accordance with policy intent, make minor changes to improve administrative outcomes and remedy unintended consequences, as well as correcting technical and drafting defects.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 6 to the Bill amends the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 to make changes to the Location Tax Offset to attract international investment in the Australian screen industry and provide domestic employment and training opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Location Tax Offset is a refundable tax offset designed to encourage large-scale film and television productions to film in Australia. These changes increase rate of the Location Tax Offset from 16.5% to 30%.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The minimum qualifying Australian production thresholds will also increase to $20 million and $1.5 million per hour for television series.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To maximise the domestic employment and training opportunities these productions provide in the Australian screen industry, the changes introduce new eligibility criteria, requiring productions to meet the minimum training obligations or contribute to the broader workforce and infrastructure capacity of the sector, as well engage one or more Australian post, digital and visual effects provider to work on the production.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 6 also introduces an alternative minimum expenditure threshold to the producer tax offset for drama series of $35 million per season in qualifying Australian production expenditure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This change will allow iconic long-form Australian drama series that film significant numbers of hours over a season to be eligible to access the producer tax offset, where they have not been able to meet the existing per hour expenditure threshold.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, the Legislative and Governance Forum on Corporations and the GST Policy and Administration Sub-group were notified of relevant amendments in this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (FINANCIAL MARKET INFRASTRUCTURE AND OTHER MEASURES) BILL 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I introduce legislation that implements two important reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New mandatory climate reporting requirements for large businesses;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And a new regime to protect our financial market infrastructure in the event of a crisis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Collectively, these two reforms will help modernise our economy, maximise the economic opportunities in the decades ahead, and build a stronger financial system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know we need significant and well-targeted investment to grasp the benefits of the net zero transformation and manage the challenges of climate change.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian businesses and investors see the potential to harness demand for renewable energy to broaden and deepen our industrial base;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While at the same time maximising our traditional economic strengths.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But to enable this, and to give investors more clarity we need a robust way to measure progress and manage risk and opportunity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To make the big, economy-defining improvements we want to see, we need to help investors make the right calls.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And to make the right calls, we need the right information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why today we're introducing legislation mandating corporate climate reporting in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our new climate reporting requirements will help Australia maximise the economic opportunities of cleaner, cheaper and more reliable energy;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And better manage climate change risks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes introduce standardised reporting requirements for businesses, to ensure they are making high quality climate-related financial disclosures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will support Australia's reputation as an attractive destination for international capital especially when it comes to investment in our energy transformation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And bring us in line with international standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new climate reporting requirements will commence from 1 January 2025 for Australia's largest listed and unlisted companies and financial institutions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other large businesses will be phased in over time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that for some, making climate disclosures for the first time will be challenging.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These lead times and this staggered approach gives companies time to build internal capability and expertise to make high quality climate risk disclosures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will also provide limited relief from private litigation for a three-year transitional period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But ASIC can still take action for breaches of the reporting requirements during this period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes will establish Australia's climate risk disclosure framework;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Give investors and companies the transparency, clarity and certainty they need to invest in new opportunities as part of the net zero transformation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And ensure our economy is working to attract and deploy capital where it's needed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have consulted extensively with industry, investors, academics and regulators to ensure we take a balanced approach to mandatory climate disclosure requirements;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And there is broad industry support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation is part of our broader sustainable finance agenda;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And shows the Albanese Government is responding to the challenge of climate change by maximising the economic opportunities from cleaner, cheaper, more reliable energy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, I also introduce legislation to strengthen regulatory arrangements for Australia's financial market infrastructure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation gives the RBA the power to step in and quickly resolve crises impacting critical financial market infrastructure and strengthens the RBA and ASIC's regulatory powers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These powers were first recommended by the Council of Financial Regulators in 2015.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The gap in emergency powers should have been addressed years ago to ensure continuity of clearing and settlement services in the face of a crisis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It took the previous Government six years to agree to the recommendations—and they never got around to delivering it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As is the case in so many areas—the Albanese Government is delivering where the former Government failed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are acting to implement these important and longstanding recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The crisis regime has three key elements:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One, giving the RBA the power to ensure stability of clearing and settlement services when a crisis occurs, as well as giving them the regulatory powers to help prevent a crisis in the first place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will help maintain critical market functions and protect Australia's financial stability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While our financial system is resilient, the failure of a clearing and settlement facility would cause significant disruption to Australia's financial markets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why it's important that the RBA has appropriate powers to act quickly and decisively to resolve a crisis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill contains a range of supporting powers to ensure that the RBA can exercise its crisis powers as effectively as possible;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But only when one or more conditions for resolution are met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These conditions clearly define the triggers for intervention and draw a distinction between the RBA's crisis powers and its day-to-day regulatory oversight and risk mitigation function.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also gives the RBA the power to provide up to $5 billion in support to ensure continuity of critical clearing and settlement services if a facility faces a crisis event.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The funds are only intended to be used as a last resort option, where a financial failure threatens the stability of the financial system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The funds allow the RBA to step in to resolve the business of the clearing and settlement service, they would be recovered after the event;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And can only be used with the approval of the Treasurer and Minister for Finance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Two, providing greater licencing and supervision powers to ASIC and the RBA to strengthen clearing and settlement facility standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our reforms enhance the regulatory powers of ASIC and the RBA, giving them the tools they need to take decisive action to monitor, mitigate, and reduce risks in our financial markets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new powers include notification requirements, the power to issue directions and rule-making powers for clearing and settlement facilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also gives them the power to ban individuals when they are not fit, proper, and competent;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And ensures that changes in control of any financial market infrastructure must be approved by either the Minister or ASIC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And three, transferring existing ministerial powers for licencing and supervision to ASIC and the RBA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The majority of these powers are already delegated to ASIC and the RBA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes ensure that day-to-day supervisory powers sit with the regulators, while the Minister will retain broader strategic and governance powers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will create a coherent, complete suite of regulatory powers that support strong financial markets.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We urge this chamber to support the climate disclosure and financial market infrastructure reforms we are introducing today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms will make it easier for businesses to make decisions about investing in the energy economy;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And will modernise and strengthen Australia's financial system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we don't act, we risk missing out on capturing the investment opportunities of the energy transition;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And leaving our financial system exposed to potential crises with no way of responding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We ask that you support these sensible measures which come after a long period of collaboration and consultation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Payment Times Reporting Amendment Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>92</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7196" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Payment Times Reporting Amendment Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>92</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the 2022 election, Labor committed to improving payment times to small businesses, emphasising that payments to small businesses should be made within 30 days.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of delivering on that commitment, the Government commissioned Dr Craig Emerson to undertake a review of the <inline font-style="italic">Payment Times Reporting Act 2020</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review by Dr Craig Emerson found that in its current form, the Payment Times Reporting Scheme is ineffective.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Which is why this Bill overhauls the <inline font-style="italic">Payment Times Reporting Act 2020</inline> to level the playing field and encourages large businesses to treat their small business suppliers fairly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is yet another action the Albanese Government is taking to deliver a better deal for small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Small businesses are the backbone of the Australian economy, employing more than 5 million people and contributing more than $500 billion to the national economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our Government knows how important cash flow and payment times are to small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For small businesses who supply goods and services to large companies, it's simply unfair for those big corporations to delay paying the invoice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Imagine walking into your local café, getting a coffee and saying, "I'll pay for that in 90 days."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's simply unthinkable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Just as it should be unthinkable for big businesses to create long delays when paying their small business suppliers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a matter of fairness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fairness for Australia's small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And our Government will always back a fair go.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dr Emerson's Review found that, while the Payment Times Reporting Scheme had merit, certain requirements in the Act impose unnecessary regulatory burdens on reporting entities, compromise the effectiveness of the Regulator, and limit the accuracy and accessibility of the data.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reforms I introduce today will reduce regulatory burdens for reporting entities with obligations under the Act, incentivise large businesses to improve their payment times and streamline processes and remove inefficiencies in the Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms include:</para></quote>
<list>Updates to the objects of the Act that reflect the purpose is improved outcomes for small businesses and incentivising large businesses to make prompt payment.</list>
<list>A shift to consolidated reporting in accordance with Australian accounting standards to improve the quality, completeness and comparability of reported data.</list>
<list>Streamlining reporting obligations and decreasing regulatory burdens through reduced and simplified reporting content requirements and introducing greater flexibility to remediate non-compliance and modify obligations in exceptional circumstances.</list>
<list>Expanded Regulator functions to include research, publishing and outreach. This will enable the Regulator to undertake a range of activities including naming best and worst paying large businesses and undertaking research on the economy-wide impacts of slow payment.</list>
<list>A mechanism for the Minister for Small Business to give a direction to an entity in the slowest 20% of payers (overall or by industry) to make enhanced disclosures.</list>
<list>The Minister can direct a slow paying entity to state on its website and in procurement, ESG-related and other documents that it is a 'slow small business payer' and provide information on how to access its payment times reports.</list>
<list>The Payment Times Reporting Regulator will then place a record in the Payment Times Reporting Register that the entity is a 'slow small business payer'.</list>
<quote><para class="block">These new reforms will be a shot in the arm for small businesses with faster payment times improving cash flow, alleviating administrative burdens and reducing financing costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Better payment times benefit everyone with resulting gains to productivity, supporting higher wages and profits, and expanding employment opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These reforms are an important part of the Albanese Labor Government's better deal for small business.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are delivering for small business, helping them to bounce back from challenges and improve their long-term resilience.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our Budget is helping to ease the pressure on Australia's small businesses by providing more than $640 million in practical and targeted support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are extending the $20,000 instant asset write-off, making it easier for small businesses to invest in their business.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will provide further targeted energy bill relief of $325 to around 1 million eligible small businesses through the Energy Bill Relief Fund, which builds on the up to $650 rebate that is being provided in this financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is investing $18.3 million in two new programs, the cyber health check program and the Small Business Cyber Resilience Service, to help small businesses build their resilience to and bounce back from cyber attacks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is in addition to the existing $23.4 million our Government is committing to the Cyber Wardens program delivered by the Council of Small Business Organisations Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have delivered $18.6 million to help support small businesses adapt and build resilience through digital technology through the latest round of Digital Solutions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are strengthening this vital sector by investing an additional $10.8 million to extend access to free mental health and financial counselling support for small business owners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This new funding builds on the $15.1 million we have already invested in these programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have updated the Commonwealth Procurement Rules, and small businesses are getting a big slice of the $75 billion in contracts the Australian Government spends every year, with a 20% target.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unfair contract terms are now illegal thanks to our action, so small businesses can negotiate fairer agreements with large partners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have responded to Dr Michael Schaper's review of the Franchising Code of Conduct.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our Government's response will help to ensure a fairer franchising sector by requiring all franchise agreements to provide a reasonable opportunity for franchisees to make a return on their investment and provide greater access to low-cost legal advice if disputes occur.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister has also held three meetings of Small Business Ministers, with a fourth scheduled in June, to ensure all levels of government are working together to support the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These measures sit alongside the Albanese Government's wider agenda that benefit small businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fee-free TAFE, cheaper childcare, expanded paid parental leave and small business grants for energy efficiency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government knows small businesses are vital to Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They are at the heart of communities across the country, and they will always be at the heart of this Government's decision making.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of this legislation today demonstrates this commitment again.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the resumption of the debate be made an order of the day for a later hour.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Administrative Review Tribunal Bill 2024, Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023, Modern Slavery Amendment (Australian Anti-Slavery Commissioner) Bill 2023, Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Public Service Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7117" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Administrative Review Tribunal Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7103" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7122" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Modern Slavery Amendment (Australian Anti-Slavery Commissioner) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7149" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7044" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Service Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>94</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Digital ID Bill 2024, Digital ID (Transitional and Consequential Provisions) Bill 2023, Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment Bill 2024, Agriculture Legislation Amendment (Modernising Administrative Processes) Bill 2024, National Cancer Screening Register Amendment Bill 2024, Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Military Invalidity Payments Means Testing) Bill 2024, Parliamentary Business Resources Legislation Amendment (Review Implementation and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Fair Work Amendment Bill 2024, Health Legislation Amendment (Removal of Requirement for a Collaborative Arrangement) Bill 2024, New Vehicle Efficiency Standard Bill 2024, New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2024, Telecommunications Legislation Amendment (Enhancing Consumer Safeguards and Other Measures) Bill 2023, Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Accountability and Fairness) Bill 2023, Administrative Review Tribunal (Consequential and Transitional Provisions No. 1) Bill 2024, Administrative Review Tribunal (Consequential and Transitional Provisions No. 2) Bill 2024, Administrative Review Tribunal Bill 2024, Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023, Modern Slavery Amendment (Australian Anti-Slavery Commissioner) Bill 2023, Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024, Public Service Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="s1404" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Digital ID Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="s1405" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Digital ID (Transitional and Consequential Provisions) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="s1408" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7160" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Agriculture Legislation Amendment (Modernising Administrative Processes) Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7165" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Cancer Screening Register Amendment Bill 2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7152" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Military Invalidity Payments Means Testing) Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7174" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Parliamentary Business Resources Legislation Amendment (Review Implementation and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7155" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Amendment Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7164" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Legislation Amendment (Removal of Requirement for a Collaborative Arrangement) Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7182" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">New Vehicle Efficiency Standard Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7183" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">New Vehicle Efficiency Standard (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2024</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Telecommunications Legislation Amendment (Enhancing Consumer Safeguards and Other Measures) Bill 2023</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Tax Accountability and Fairness) Bill 2023</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Administrative Review Tribunal (Consequential and Transitional Provisions No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
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              <a href="r7137" type="Bill">
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Administrative Review Tribunal (Consequential and Transitional Provisions No. 2) Bill 2024</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Administrative Review Tribunal Bill 2024</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Attorney-General's Portfolio Miscellaneous Measures Bill 2023</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Modern Slavery Amendment (Australian Anti-Slavery Commissioner) Bill 2023</span>
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                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
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              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Public Service Amendment Bill 2023</span>
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          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Health Amendment (Supporting Patient Access to Cheaper Medicines and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7206" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Health Amendment (Supporting Patient Access to Cheaper Medicines and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report from Committee</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the Chair of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Senator Marielle Smith, I present the report of the committee on the provisions of the National Health Amendment (Supporting Patient Access to Cheaper Medicines and Other Measures) Bill 2024, together with accompanying documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>95</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For some months—in fact, years now—opposition senators have been calling to have a full and transparent inquiry into the rollout of huge amounts of wind turbines and solar panels across our farmlands and bushlands throughout Australia. For all of that time the government has been hiding, delaying and dragging its feet, stopping a proper inquiry into its own policies. The only conclusion you can come to is that this government has a lot to hide when it comes to its renewable energy rollout. It doesn't want that program to be subject to any kind of public scrutiny.</para>
<para>I want to recognise the efforts of my colleagues. Senator Cadell has been ably leading the charge on this matter for years now; it's been many months. He's showing incredible persistence to get to the bottom of it. Senator Colbeck, who is co-sponsoring this motion, is working hard on this as well as are many other members of parliament—from different political parties but, principally, from the Liberal and National parties—from areas where many of these projects are being rolled out. I know that last week, in the fallout—excuse the pun!—of the nuclear announcement, many people were saying, 'Nobody would have a nuclear power station in their backyard.' Some people would claim that people wouldn't want a nuclear power station in their backyard. Well, I'm fine to have it in my backyard, perfectly fine. I've always said that. Some of them that the coalition has proposed are going to be not too far from where I live and some are going to be close to where I live. I have no problem with that at all.</para>
<para>One thing I think many Australians wouldn't even realise is that many do actually have a nuclear reactor in their backyard. In fact, there's a nuclear reactor in our biggest city, so millions of Australians have, figuratively, a nuclear reactor in their backyard. We've had a nuclear reactor in south-west Sydney, at a location called Lucas Heights, since the 1960s. I think it was built in 1958. So, for more than 60 years, we've had a nuclear reactor. It's actually the second reactor. It was rebuilt in the 2000s. We've had a nuclear reactor that whole time in that facility.</para>
<para>I would hazard a guess that many Sydneysiders don't even realise there is a nuclear reactor in their town. It goes completely unremarked. It has been run incredibly safely; it's a world-class facility. It does not generate electricity, but the nuclear reactor is a nuclear reactor. I've been out there a number of times and been told by those operating it that it could generate electricity but it is used, instead, to generate the nuclear medicines which save millions of Australians' lives—in fact, one in two Australians, on average. About half of us over our lifetimes, on average, will require the use of medicines made through nuclear processes like those at Lucas Heights. That reactor exists there and it is fine. People are happy with it.</para>
<para>In fact, I had a look last week. In the closest suburb to Lucas Heights, a house 1.7 kilometres away, I think, but definitely under two kilometres away from the actual reactor—so we're talking 'backyard'—sold in March for $1.7 million. If people had a problem with nuclear reactors in their backyard, you wouldn't think houses would be selling for nearly $2 million. It was a four-bedroom house. It looked like a nice home but not by any means a palace or mansion, but it sold for $1.7 million. In fact, that suburb had an average price of over $1.2 million over the past 12 months, just hundreds of metres away from the nuclear reactor there. That's in peoples' backyards.</para>
<para>But the funny thing is, we've been building solar factories and wind factories for a generation now, for over 20 years really, at an industrial scale here in Australia, and I don't think Sydneysiders have a solar or wind factory in their backyard yet. So, they're happy to have the nuclear reactor in their backyard. I do see a lot of people in Sydney wanting renewable energy, but I don't see anybody out there saying, 'Yes, please install a mass of hectares of solar and wind turbines off the coast of Manly Beach,' or even on the outskirts of Sydney at Camden. I don't see this groundswell of support for these facilities. No, they tend to be installed out in regional, country locations, and, typically, that's where you'll find members of the Liberal and National parties representing. So we are very much on the front line of this.</para>
<para>I can tell you, as someone who lives in one of these areas, that I've met many more people who would have a nuclear reactor in their backyard over an industrial-scale solar or wind factory any day of the week. We all have a visual representation of what it means for people who live near these things, every day that we come to work. Every day we come to work there's a big flagpole, over there, in the middle of the building, and there's a big flag on top. I think I checked a while back and it sits at just over 200 metres tall or something like that. These big wind turbines now going up near where I live, just west of Rockhampton, sit at 275 metres tall to the tip of the blade. That's bigger and taller than the flag here on Parliament House. If it was just one of them it might be, like the flagpole here, a bit of a spectacle. It's something you look at and are inspired by, almost, every day. But there are hundreds of them going in across the beautiful, pristine, subtropical bushland just west of Rockhampton. That is just one project. There are hundreds more, thousands of them overall, across many projects in my area. That tends to get people a bit worried—having hundreds of Parliament House sized flagpoles dotted along what was otherwise previously a pristine landscape full of animals and natural habitat, and supporting, of course, a very important ecosystem in my area, the Great Barrier Reef.</para>
<para>We've been told for decades now that we can't do much in these areas in the Great Barrier Reef catchment. Farmers can't clear trees anymore. They're not allowed to develop their land because, if they did, the sediment would run off to the rivers and catchments that flow to the Great Barrier Reef and that would destroy the coral in the reef. That's what we're told. Senator Hanson-Young and others have made this point many times. Yet, apparently, an overseas wind turbine investor can come to these areas in the Great Barrier Reef catchment area, and use dynamite to blow up the tops of mountains and push all that sediment over the side, where it will flow into the Fitzroy delta, out to the Great Barrier Reef and past the Keppels, and that's no problem at all. There's not even a murmur from the Greens political party about this environmental destruction. Why?</para>
<para>It wouldn't shock many people to know that I'm probably not the world's biggest greenie, but I do care about our natural environment and I don't think we should be blowing 20 metres off the top of these beautiful, pristine mountains, which have sugar gliders, koalas and beautiful natural habitats.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I care about koalas. I care very much about koalas. We aren't going to save the polar bear, Senator Hanson Young, by killing koalas, but that's the approach at the moment. That is the approach: we kill these koala habitats and somehow that will save the polar bear. I don't understand it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you're going to build a 275-metre tower, you need very strong foundations, obviously. You need, I'm told, a 200 x 200 square metre platform—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Canavan, resume your seat. Senator Hanson-Young, I'd ask you to remember standing order 197. You expect courtesy when you speak. Please extend it to others. Senator Canavan, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, these towers are 275 metres tall, and they need a 200 x 200 square metre flat pad. Obviously God didn't create the mountains to have 200 x 200 square metre flat pads at the top of them. They come up to peaks. That's why they have to take off, I'm told, as much as 20 metres of the peaks—resulting in a massive amount of sediment and environmental destruction—to put those wind turbines on.</para>
<para>There has been a lot of talk about asking local people what they think and whether they would accept energy solutions in their area. We've seen lots of polling in the last week about nuclear reactors. Generally speaking, the Australian people would accept nuclear reactors. There are a majority of Australians who think that. In the areas that we have proposed that nuclear reactors go, there are again a majority of people saying they would. There are some people who are opposed, of course, but a majority are saying they would. Very rarely do we see our major media outlets poll these local towns about what they think about a wind factory and whether they would like those in their backyard. I'd be very interested to see the polling results on those.</para>
<para>We saw some insights from the report of the independent Energy Infrastructure Commissioner, Mr Andrew Dyer, earlier this year. He spent months going around to these communities and talking to them about what they think of these large-scale industrial renewables projects. He did a survey of landowners in the area who are affected by these projects. The survey result that came back said that 89 per cent were not happy with how renewable energy was being rolled out in their areas. As I've said, in this area west of Rockhampton in Central Queensland, you'll probably find more supporters of the Blues State of Origin team right now than you will find supporters of renewable energy. You never get 89 per cent. A lot of us do polling. It's impossible, usually, to get 90 per cent of people to agree on something, but you do in the case of whether or not they'd like these large-scale, environmentally destructive wind turbines near their properties.</para>
<para>That gets to the core of why the government is teaming up with the Greens here to deny an inquiry into these matters. They don't want those 90 per cent of people to have their voices heard in this parliament. They don't want them to have a spotlight put on them about why they're concerned about these things. I genuinely believe that Australians do care about the feelings of those fellow Australians who live in the bush and who work in the bush. Many of these people—though not all—are farmers. They care about their fellow Australians' opinions and views. If it was clearly expressed to them why these people don't want these large-scale industrial projects destroying Australia's pristine and beautiful bushland, very soon the Australian people would turn against this approach. That's why the government is denying this. That's why the government is seeking to gag those voices in rural and regional Australia from having their say on these projects.</para>
<para>Despite those views not getting that air time in our major media and in our major cities, Australians can see the complete failure of the government's reckless renewables approach to lowering power bills. This government promised, a few years ago, before the election—the Prime Minister promised personally, almost 100 times—that they would lower your power bills by $275 by next financial year. That promise was for the 2024-25 financial year—so, in just a few weeks that promise becomes due. Everyone knows, from the power bills they get every quarter, that the Prime Minister has broken his promise, that his proposal to go on this mad rush of renewable energy has not delivered the promised results. And this was not a throwaway line; this was the modelling the Prime Minister did. He stood behind it and said he was confident that by investing in solar and wind resources they would lower power prices.</para>
<para>The exact opposite has happened. On average, the average Australian household now has power bills that are more than $500 more than when the Prime Minister came to office, and many are paying $1,000 or $2,000 more, if they're a large home with a large family. This model is clearly failing. And we sit here today facing the absurd situation where we're looking at a risk of running out of gas this winter—in a country blessed with abundant natural resources. We're not Singapore. Singapore's a great place, but it doesn't have natural resources. It's not running out of gas. They don't have winter in Singapore, but they do need air-conditioning, they do need electricity all year round, being on the equator. Singapore is not running out of gas, but Australia is, even with all our resources.</para>
<para>There's a very simple answer for why that's happening. It's because we're obsessed with one type of electricity generation. We're ignoring the need to develop our gas resources, our coal resources and our uranium resources, too. We need to get a better balance in this debate. We need to get away from this naive, juvenile idea that there is somehow a silver bullet out there that can solve all our problems in one shot. We can't maintain an industrial economy and manufacturing sector by just relying on energy sources that are dependent on the weather. That should be obvious, but for those for whom it wasn't obvious, it's now plainly obvious, given the reality that's biting us all right now.</para>
<para>Likewise, my side of politics, as I often say, are not going to deliver those results just by installing nuclear power plants either. Any modern industrial economy needs a mix of energy types. We need gas to create fertilisers to grow food. Over half the world's food is grown by using fossil fuel based fertilisers, primarily natural gas generated fertilisers. We need coal to maintain our heavy industry and manufacturing, which relies on very cheap reliable power, like our aluminium sector, which is a massively thriving part of our nation, our economy, underpinning tens of thousands of jobs. We need coal for that. And yes, we should invest in nuclear, too, because it's a modern technology that can also provide reliable power. For anyone who wants to bring down power prices for our country, we need a balanced mix of energy types. We need a proper investigation of this renewables rollout before it's too late for many Australians.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Every time you see a wind turbine or an industrial solar complex, think one thing: your energy prices are going to increase. That's what those things mean. We've been promised that energy prices will decrease, but wind turbines and industrial solar complexes mean higher prices for people, for families, for small businesses, for larger corporations and employers, for the whole community. And they mean trillions of dollars in waste in our economy. In every country around the world, as the percentage of solar and wind has increased, the cost of electricity has increased. That's a fact—everywhere, consistent. And now, after nearly 30 years of pushing solar and wind, which started with John Howard's renewable energy target, we see the ridiculous situation of the Labor government offering energy price relief. Why? Because they're driving up the cost of energy to make it unaffordable; that's why.</para>
<para>So let's have a look at why. Let's see why killing the environment in the name of supposedly saving it is costing us so much. Let's turn to the terms of the motion for an inquiry. So many people want us to have an inquiry, not just rural people but urban people, because they're worried about the cost. This is what the inquiry is looking into:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the importance of ensuring that the National Electricity Grid has the capacity to provide a reliable and secure supply of energy to Australians as the economy transitions to new and more dispersed—</para></quote>
<para>and we'll talk about that—</para>
<quote><para class="block">methods of generations and storage, and acknowledging that transition will necessarily transgress on agricultural, Indigenous and environmental lands and marine environments …</para></quote>
<para>The environment and our productive capacity are suffering.</para>
<para>I'll cover some key concerns that are key to the inquiry because the uniparty has not thought about this—from when John Howard, the Liberal Prime Minister, started the renewable energy target to this ridiculous situation we're in now. By the way, John Howard started that and did three other things, which we might have time to discuss, that laid the foundation for the crippling of our energy supply in this country. Six years after he was booted from office, he admitted that, on the matter of climate science, he is agnostic. He didn't have the science. This whole thing is based not on science; it's based on contradictions of science.</para>
<para>Let's start with solar and wind. The amount of steel needed per megawatt of electricity from a coal-fired power station is 35 tons. For wind turbines it's 542 tons of steel. That's 15 times as much. Straightaway, wind is suffering a cost penalty. It's a huge cost burden. Then, when you look at the energy density of coal, it's very high. It's not as high as uranium, but it's very high. For solar and wind, it's very low.</para>
<para>Secondly I see the government throwing barbs at the coalition, and well it should over aspects of its nuclear policy, but the government is accusing the opposition of uncosted policy. Where are your costs, government? Where are your costs on solar and wind? Where are your costs on solar and wind, Greens? We even see some solar and wind complexes, massive complexes in the Kennedy electorate in Queensland and in western Victoria, not connected to the grid. They have been built but not connected. That's how much thought has gone into this. It's bloody ridiculous.</para>
<para>Solar and wind have an inherently high capital cost plus a low energy density, which means low energy production and very high cost per unit of electricity. Plus the amount of land needed for solar and wind is enormous. And then we see that the average capacity utilisation of solar and wind is 23 per cent. That's less than a quarter of what the nameplate capacity is. Now we see the latest figures just released on wind, which show that it's 21 per cent. That's one-fifth of the capacity. What does that tell you? For a given capacity of a coal-fired power station, you'll need a certain capacity of solar and wind. Multiply that by four, because you're getting less than 25 per cent. Multiply it by five in the case of wind. Five times makes it prohibitive. Four times makes it prohibitive. Then think about this: at peak hour, when we need maximum electricity, the average utilisation and the average capacity is 10 per cent, which means that, to get the equivalent of that coal-fired power station, we need 10 times the solar and wind capacity—10 times. Then, for sizeable periods, we have the sun not shining brightly because of clouds or we have the wind drought. That means we need a further multiplication to make sure we can store up enough in energy and batteries. But the batteries to store that amount of wind and solar energy have never been thought of, never been considered and never been developed. It's impossible. The cost if we don't have them will be blackouts and outages in hospitals, businesses and family homes.</para>
<para>Plus there are the transmission costs. Transmission costs, many years ago, used to be 49 per cent of the cost of the electricity bill. I don't know what it is now, but it's certainly substantial. Solar and wind have to be located a long way from the major metropolitan areas, which means straightaway that transmission costs are even higher than for a coal-fired power station, which can be located close to the metropolitan areas. Then, because of the dispersed nature of solar and wind, we have even more transmission lines. Then, because of the capacity factor that I just mentioned, we have even more transmission lines. This makes it prohibitive, not just in terms of the installation of solar and wind but also in terms of transmission lines. Plus, the transmission lines will barely be used because of the capacity of solar and wind not being utilised. And then we have the 15-to 20-year life, at best—12 to 15 years more likely—of solar and wind industrial complexes. That means that over the life of a coal-fired power station or a nuclear power station, they have to be replaced four times, so multiply the cost again by four. What have we multiplied it by so far? We've multiplied the cost by five, then by 10 and now by another four. Yet the CSIRO considers not one piece of that puzzle—not one piece. They say that it's all sunk cost; just ignore it.</para>
<para>That's why solar and wind can compete. And they still need subsidies. Then you've got to add batteries and pumped hydro. Pumped hydro itself is an admission of failure. You cannot have pumped hydro without a disparity between peak hour prices and off-peak prices, and that's due to the failure of the grid and solar and wind. And then we need firming, another cost, because coal, nuclear and hydro are stable, synchronous power supplies. Solar and wind are asynchronous—unstable—so they need firming. And they need backup gas or backup coal because solar and wind are unreliable. There's a doubling. Look at the multiplication that we have got there.</para>
<para>None of this is included in the GenCost report from the CSIRO. It assumes no transmission cost because they've already been built. That's rubbish. We need far more new transmission lines. We have an inherently higher cost from solar and wind, plus low capacity, plus regional, plus dispersal, plus backup, plus stabilisation. Think about this: for a business, you need a stable, reliable, low-variation input. When variation occurs, it costs enormous amounts of money. At industrial and manufacturing plants, farmers are using backup, so they have to pay twice for their electricity. We also have a huge footprint in terms of land. Solar complexes and wind turbines use far more land and are far more scattered than a concentrated coal-fired power station or a nuclear power station. They're taking up huge quantities of resources. The resource footprint of solar and wind is enormous.</para>
<para>We have agricultural land being sterilised. We have poisons and toxins potentially going into the Brisbane water supply, into their drinking water—lead, cadmium—which feeds Brisbane, Beaudesert, Gold Coast, potentially Toowoomba, Ipswich, Logan and other areas in the south-east of Queensland. We also have the future cost yet to be added—Snowy 2.0.  By the way, when they first did the costings of Snowy 2.0, thanks to Malcolm Turnbull's prime ministership and poor leadership, they forgot about the transmission lines. They forgot to add the transmission lines. Whoops! We better add a few more billion to that. Now look at it. It was originally slated for $2 billion. We could see this, and I'm not an energy expert. We could see it when Malcolm Turnbull first released it. We told them, and no-one took any notice. Now they're putting in all these additional costs, and Snowy 2.0 is heading for $14 billion and perhaps $20 billion—if it moves! This is not about having an alternative energy supply; it's about less energy and control of energy.</para>
<para>We also have Mr Albanese and Mr Bowen, 'Blackout Bowen', talking about us being a renewable superpower. It means economic and environmental suicide, resource sterilisation, and displacement of Indigenous. No costings—a huge catastrophe! We're talking about billions of dollars and impacts worth trillions of dollars. We must have this inquiry. They're building in a high-cost overhead and a huge environmental legacy. When some of those farmers who are looking at the money now—some aren't selling out, but some are selling out because of the money coming in—think about the environmental legacy. No bonds. The energy company owning the wind turbines and the solar complexes can just walk off and leave it. There's no requirement to fix it. Farmers will pay for that. They're already paying in many cases, as are rural towns, with the slow thrum, thrum, thrum of infrasound, which is proven harmful to humans. So they're killing the environment to save it. We're seeing human progress being reversed.</para>
<para>The No. 1 message from the last 170 years since the industrial revolution started was that we have a higher standard of living and all the benefits that brings because of a relentless reduction in energy prices. What we've seen since John Howard come to power is a reversal of that. As energy prices increase, productivity falls, wealth falls and prosperity falls. We see a reversal of human progress. So what if we spend billions on solar and wind, what if it costs our economy trillions of dollars—and it will—and what if China does not? What happens then? Now do you get what's going on? Now do you see it?</para>
<para>I want to turn to two other points. As I said, John Howard introduced all the problems we're seeing now: the Renewable Energy Target; the stealing of farmers' property rights to comply with the UN Kyoto protocol; and the National Electricity Market, which is really a national electricity racket. He also introduced an emissions trading scheme as policy—not as fact, but as policy. That's a carbon tax. He was the first major leader of a major party to have that. The CSIRO has never provided any empirical scientific data and logical scientific points that prove the need to cut carbon dioxide from human activity. The CSIRO admitted that to me when I held them accountable, and they gave me three presentations, each 2½ hours long. In the first presentation they admitted that they had never given the advice and had never said that carbon dioxide from human activity is a danger and needs to be cut. In the second presentation they gave me, they admitted that today's temperatures are not unprecedented; they've happened before—many, many times. In fact, the scientific term for periods of high temperature is 'climate optimum', because they're beneficial for humanity, for civilisation and for the environment. The temperatures are not unprecedented.</para>
<para>The second point is that I've asked many government departments in this federal government for their basis of policy. To have a basis of policy you need to have the impact of carbon dioxide from human activity on some climate factor. No-one has given us that. We have amassed 24,000 datasets on climate and energy from around the world, from legally scraped websites and research institutions like the CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology, and we've never found any change in any climate factors at all, so there's no basis for policy. You need that quantitative impact of carbon dioxide from human activity on a climate factor so that you can then study the alternatives, if you want to get rid of the carbon dioxide production. You've got to have that to track progress, but there's none of that. There's no basis for policy. We are flying blind. We're heading for a cliff.</para>
<para>Then we see there's no environmental impact statement for the use of solar and wind—none at all. What impact is the energy we're taking out of the wind going to have on our climate? What impact is it going to have on the natural environment? Yet they say that 0.03 per cent of the carbon dioxide is coming from humans, and 1.2 per cent of that from Australians. No impact quantified—the absurdity is enormous. And who will pay for all this mess? We, the people. You are foisting this on the people. We need an inquiry now. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to contribute to this discussion tonight. If you ever needed evidence of just how much the Peter Dutton Liberal and National party hate renewable energy, here it is.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, remember to address members of the other chamber by their correct title.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you ever needed a better example of how much hate there is in the Liberal and National party, led by Mr Dutton, this is it. There is not a renewable energy idea, project or power source that this coalition doesn't hate. They hate renewable energy because they're a bunch of climate deniers. They hate renewable energy because they don't want Australians making power in their own homes for cheap. They hate renewable energy because they are doing the grubby work of the fossil fuel industry. The fossil fuel industry are making an absolute motza by charging people ridiculous amounts for the use of coal and gas. They don't want people putting solar panels on their roofs or being able to put batteries on their homes, because then the people will not be paying the corporations. That's what's going on here. The big coal and gas companies want to keep making more money off the backs of hardworking Australians, households and small businesses.</para>
<para>The whole world is looking at the climate catastrophe that is coming, knowing that we have to stop polluting the planet and that there is an alternative for clean, green energy, and it's wind, solar and storage. The rest of the world is looking at this and saying: 'You know what? We need to start transitioning, because our planet is in crisis, our climate is at boiling point and our environment is suffering.' Climate change is here. It's already having a significant impact: the floods, the droughts, the bushfires, the famine, the heatwaves and the king wave storms that are ruining coastal homes around the world. The climate crisis is here, and it's already having a very real and dangerous impact on people's lives and livelihoods.</para>
<para>The fossil fuel industry are freaking out. They're worried. They're worried that they are not going to be able to keep polluting and making money from that pollution, because they know the community across the world is saying no. So who do they go to? They run to the coalition—to Mr Dutton and to Barnaby Joyce—and they say, 'Please'—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Use the correct titles.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They keep running and running to Mr Dutton and Mr Joyce, to the Liberal Party and the National Party, and they say: 'Keep us alive! Keep our business going—business as usual. Burn more coal. Burn more gas. Drill for more gas. Drill for more oil. Pollute, pollute, pollute.' They do this because they want to keep on making more money and they don't want Australian households being able to pay less for their power by having solar panels and batteries for storage.</para>
<para>The Liberal and National parties hate renewable energy because they hate Australians getting cheap power. They want to make sure that fossil fuel industries, the coal and gas corporations, keep making profit. That's what's going on here, at the cost of our environment and our planet. In the last fortnight, we have seen the Leader of the Opposition, Peter Dutton, say that he would dump Australia's climate targets, like Donald Trump, and that we would pull out of the Paris Agreement, like Donald Trump, and he followed this up by saying that instead of renewable energy, which is safe, clean and cheap, he wants radioactive, toxic nuclear power reactors across the country. He won't say how much it's going to cost Australians—billions and billions of dollars. He won't say what he'll do with the waste. He's going to dump it in South Australia's back yard. That is where it'll go, and every South Australian should know this—that the Liberal Party in South Australia are selling them out. There will be at least one big nuclear reactor—maybe more—at huge cost to the taxpayer, and then we're going to have to carry everybody's toxic waste as well.</para>
<para>The Liberal and National parties in Australia are so backwards. They are doing the dirty work for the fossil fuel industry. I know there are lots of memes going around. There are lots of jokes about Peter Dutton and Homer Simpson. I think Mr Dutton is more like Mr Burns, frankly: sinister and dangerous. But this is serious business. Our climate is at boiling point, Australians are struggling with the cost of living, and all Mr Dutton can offer is a dangerous, toxic plan that will hike up prices and put a wrecking ball through climate action. There is not a renewable energy project that the mob on that side of the chamber, on the Liberal and National side, don't hate. They don't want you getting power cheaper. They don't want Australians being able to take control of their own energy. They want to control it. They want all the money flowing to the big corporations.</para>
<para>Let's call a spade a spade. This whole toxic nuclear ploy of Mr Dutton's is to allow the coal and gas industries to keep going for longer, with more coal and gas mines, more pollution, more money for the corporations and more expensive power bills paid for by the Australian people, paid for by the next generation and the generation after that. Our climate is in crisis. We can't waste another 10 or 20 years when our climate is already suffering. Young Australians know this. Older Australians know this. Every thinking Australian knows this. Mr Dutton is fooling no-one. He is fooling no-one.</para>
<para>The question will be: will the Labor Party and the government stand up and call this out for what it really is: an excuse to keep burning coal and using gas for longer? That will drive the climate crisis to be even worse. It will drive power bills up. It will fuel the bushfires next summer. It will make the floods worse next time around. It will make the drought worse. Australians know that we have to change business as usual. They want cheap power that is clean and green. They want to be able to see a government and a parliament that takes climate change and the suffering of the environment seriously because they care about the future their kids are going to have in 10, 20, 30 and 40 years time. Australians are smart people, and Mr Dutton is treating them like mugs.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said earlier on today, I am incredibly proud to be part of a party and a coalition that has the courage, intellect and ability to still have rational policy discussions and debates on controversial but critically important issues for our nation. There is no more important issue for our nation's future than that of the energy mix that we will have for the next 80 to 100 years. When you have a look at the facts, we have heard so much rhetoric in this place from those opposite such as that the planet's burning. There's been a lot of hypocrisy. We've just heard that from the Greens.</para>
<para>For those who purport to care about the environment, to care about every polar bear, every koala and every tree, that's all right unless you want to put in 58 million solar panels, 3,500 new industrial wind turbines and 28,000 new transmission lines straight through pristine wilderness. The breathtaking hypocrisy of that by those opposite is a complete disgrace. But, when you take the emotion and the rhetoric out of it, as we on this side have done after two years of very considered policy debate, research and discussion, the facts, I think, speak for themselves.</para>
<para>Today, over 400 nuclear power plants are operated safely in over 30 countries globally. We are the only G20 country that either doesn't have nuclear power energy already or sources it from other nations or is now building nuclear power reactors. We are the only one. Is there something that those opposite know that the rest of the world doesn't know? And not only are 30 countries operating 400 of them; there are another 50 nations that are now looking to transition to nuclear power. Why? Because the economics stack up. Remember that this is not a 20-year use-and-replace solar panel or wind turbine. This is an 80- to 100-year investment in guaranteeing safe, clean and reliable power so somebody born today will have safe, clean energy for the rest of their lives with a single power plant in their home state—or it might be two; it depends on where they are. No other country on the planet—not one—is going renewable only. It is insanity. We can already see what's happening to power prices and to reliability with the potential now to run out of gas because those opposite have so distorted the market and have made it a sovereign risk in terms of ensuring our gas supplies into the future.</para>
<para>It is time for a mature debate on this. Our nation has absolutely nothing to fear, and those opposite should have nothing to fear, from a debate. Just to show you how hysterical and how out of touch those opposite are, there is an election on in the UK at the moment. I have the election manifesto for this election of one of the major political parties. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will ensure the long-term security of the sector, extending the lifetime of existing plants, and we will get Hinkley Point C over the line. New nuclear power stations, such as Sizewell C, and Small Modular Reactors, will play an important role in helping the UK achieve energy security and clean power while securing thousands of good, skilled jobs.</para></quote>
<para>Guess who that was? It wasn't the Conservative Party. It was the Labour Party in the UK. The government's blood brothers and sisters, their comrades, are the ones who are saying, 'Not only are we going to keep our current plants going; we are going to build new ones.' And why? Because they now have third-generation nuclear power plants available. They are safe, they're reliable and, over time, they are absolutely economical.</para>
<para>There are a number of other little dirty secrets that those opposite don't like us talking about or, in fact, for anybody else in the Australian community to talk about. It's not only the facts, which are very stark; it's also things like slavery. Think about this. Those opposite—Labor and the Greens—know only too well that every single piece of new energy technology and the components, minerals and resources that go into them are made with the enslaved labour and the forced labour of millions of people, mostly in China. They know that every single one of these 3,500 wind turbines—every blade and every component—is made somehow by the hands of women, children and men. Not only do they know that; they also know that, of the 58 million solar panels that they are planning, every single one of those has slave labour riddled throughout its creation. They know this, but they are doing nothing—nothing!—to make sure that whatever we go ahead with in Australia in terms of new energy technologies, whether it's the Teslas we import, Chinese electric vehicles, lithium ion batteries, the anodes, cathodes and everything that goes into this equipment or the critical minerals, is not done off the back of millions of Uyghurs in forced labour internment camps or Tibetans, who are increasingly impacted. Eighty-five per cent of Tibetan children are now taken away from their family members into Chinese boarding schools where they lose their identity and their language. They are then removed into forced labour camps, farms, mine sites and processing plants to produce the equipment that you want to destroy our own environment with. Yet you say nothing. Shame on you.</para>
<para>Certainly we need to use renewables here in Australia. We have never said anything different, and in government we had a fine record in this area. But you are not calling it out. You are allowing this to occur. To produce what we need here will require 58 million solar panels for the first 20 years alone, never mind the next four lots needed for the same life of a nuclear power plant. How many more slaves are China going to have to source to fill your supply requirements? Millions more. And we haven't even talked about the North Koreans. The North Korean government sells indentured slaves to produce products such as this across China. Yet you say nothing. Shame on you.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Reynolds, just remember to make your remarks through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will. Thank you, Acting Deputy President. That's the first little dirty secret that those opposite are hiding from the rest of the nation. We say yes. Yes, we must have a sensible mix of renewables, gas and coal initially as we transition to nuclear. But it cannot come off the backs of millions of people who have been enslaved. We have to deal with both. We have to deal with the transition to a zero carbon economy and energy. But you are doing it off the backs of millions of people who are in servitude.</para>
<para>What's the second dirty secret? What happens with all the waste? It's very clear for nuclear energy, for the low, medium and high levels of waste that are produced, that we will need to dispose of our own waste. But we can. In Western Australia there is already an industrial waste processing plant at Sandy Ridge outside Kalgoorlie. It is already taking tens of thousands of cubic metres of waste and safely burying them and disposing of them. They have the social licence to do this, they have the best geology in the world to do this and they have the best climate to do this. They can take high-level waste, and they have the social licence to do that already. But those opposite scream as if we're going to be putting high-level nuclear waste in the suburbs of our major cities. Shame on you. You know that's not true. You know we already have facilities that do this. As other speakers have already said, we've been storing low-level radiological waste for decades here in Australia. We are a nuclear nation. In my own home state of Western Australia we are in the process, somewhat slowly, a bit too slowly, of transitioning to become sovereign nuclear ready. As we transition in Western Australia, we have the capacity to store, manage and respond to any incidents, but we also have the waste disposal facilities.</para>
<para>So, when we have a look and we talk about the facts, the facts are on the side of those who sit on this side of the chamber. The rest of the world is transitioning. The developed north, the geographic north, certainly is, so why shouldn't we? Why should we not transition to get the economic benefits, to get the environmental benefits and to ensure that we are not destroying thousands of kilometres of pristine Australian bush, flora and fauna? We have the ability to save the waste.</para>
<para>Finally, I have another issue that some of my Western Australian colleagues—Andrew Hastie, Nola Marino and others—have been fighting for with their local communities. The government is proposing mega wind farms right across many of our oceans, along our coastlines. In Western Australia, one of them runs 8,000 square kilometres along the south-west coastline. The community is rightly outraged. It is not necessary. If we transition to a small modular reactor at Muja, just outside of Collie, we do not need these 8,000 square kilometres of wind farms. With the amount of community outrage that there is, this will never get built. It should never get built. We should actually now look to transition to nuclear.</para>
<para>Like everything else this government has done, they've not only stuffed up the consultation—they're years behind. But we also found out at Senate estimates, only a couple of weeks ago, that the geniuses in this government said, 'Well, we'll put 8,000 square kilometres of large industrial wind turbines south of Garden Island.' Guess what? They never stopped to think of any security implications. Have they talked to our AUKUS partners? What do they think about having these Chinese built and constructed megastructures in their approaches to Garden Island and close to Garden Island? Well, I can tell you what. They do know about it now, and, if you think it's going to be in our nation's interest to have thousands of Chinese built and installed wind turbines that will impede submarine access and whale migration to Garden Island, you are crazy. Of course it won't be. This wind farm will never get built and shouldn't be built, but those opposite have no plan B. We are already suffering for that.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Happy 10th anniversary of transmission Tuesday. We're so excited it's the 10th anniversary that we're celebrating on a Monday. We're here a day early for the 10th anniversary of transmission Tuesday. We got interrupted at our last go at it; it's why some of us are back today. Most of us have done the double-digit performance, so it's getting a bit to the stage of: how many times can you make the point, or as I have said earlier, how much can a koala bear?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just for you, Senator Cadell: how much can a koala bear? Well, I can tell you that rural and regional communities are starting to get tested to that nth degree.</para>
<para>But I did want to make a very special mention of the contribution we saw from Greens senator Sarah Hanson-Young. I was listening to what she was saying, as painful as that was to do. I was listening to the personal attacks on opposition leader Mr Dutton and the personal attacks that were consistently being made to those who don't belong to the unicorn-farming society, but there was no mention of transmission lines, which I find a little ironic considering we're here for transmission Tuesday—celebrating early on the Monday. There was no mention of the 28,000 kilometres of transmission lines that are being bulldozed through prime agricultural land, through rural and regional communities and through the last chlamydia-free koala habitat. We know it's gone. No STD will be getting them—just a transmission line—and bulldoze we go for the 28,000 kilometres of transmission lines that are required. I do note Senator Reynolds' point about the windfarm of WA, which was an outstanding one—no consideration of national security. That could be because this government has moved national security advice from the national security committee and put climate change on it. So we have the minister for climate change, Mr Bowen, advocating for wind farms off the coast of WA, within cooee of where submarines are going to be based.</para>
<para>But perhaps we should all practice now: 'Ni hao!' Because if those who sit at the end of the chamber got their way, I think that's how we'd all be speaking. Every single one of these renewable projects that they are so keen on, every project that they're so enthusiastic about, all those solar panels—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCarthy</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What's wrong with solar?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll tell you, Senator Grogan, what's wrong with solar panels—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCarthy</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's Senator McCarthy.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Grogan</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But I can ask the question just as easily.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator McCarthy. I apologise for verballing you, Senator Grogan. I'll tell you what's wrong with solar panels—their lifespan's not terribly long. So for a lot of those households who took up all of those rebates 10-15 years ago to put solar on their roofs, it was great for them at the time, plugged in, running their pools during the day, when the sun was shining. But all of those solar panels are coming to the end of their lives. So where are they going to go? They know, in their faux utopia, where all this waste is going to go and what's going to happen. It costs $22 to recycle a solar panel and it costs $2 to put it into landfill, so there are no prizes for guessing where all these outdated, used-up solar panels are going.</para>
<para>The other problem with solar panels is how they're produced. Those of us that sat on the side of the chamber do not believe, in any shape or form, in the use of slave labour. The use of slaves to create things, whatever they are—I don't care if they're a brand of sandshoe, a type of car or a solar panel. It is wrong for us as Australians to have in our supply chain any item that we know has been made by the use of slave labour. So when I'm asked what's wrong with solar panels, it's a basic human right that's being violated, as Chinese use Uyghur slaves to make these solar panels. I think that's a pretty big problem with solar panels that in this utopia, in this race to renewables, in this running after an ideology that comes way down the list of concerns.</para>
<para>Coming back to my point with regard to the wind turbines near Garden Island in WA and the national security implications that could be had there, we know what the communities are saying done in the Illawarra, in my home state of New South Wales. They're not quite jumping up and down with joy—maybe jumping up and down in anger and frustration—at the windfarms that are being pushed onto them with an absolutely—you couldn't call it community consultation. We know that this government is not interested in consultation. When they do consult, as we're learning with so many pieces of legislation, it's with NDAs being signed by those who are deemed worthy to speak to it. This is the problem when you are chasing ideology. It's an ideology that there is no chance we are going to reach the 82 per cent renewable target for by 2030. It is not going to happen. That's not me saying that; that's the experts in energy across the sector and the economists looking at it. Every single manufacturing and large group that relies on power all know that there is absolutely no way that 82 per cent renewables by 2030 is ever going to be achieved.</para>
<para>Can you imagine if we lived in a world and there was an opportunity to have reliable baseload power that had zero emissions? Imagine! We have unicorn farmers chasing every rabbit they can find down a hole. Imagine if there was a zero-emissions type of power that was reliable and could firm the grid. But—hang on—there is! Wait; there's more! It's nuclear power, embraced by every other of the top 20 economies in the world, except for little old us. We're still sitting here, with those in the government saying it can't be done. Don't worry about chasing the green hydrogen genie that doesn't even exist yet. Green hydrogen is, again, up there with the unicorn farmers. It doesn't exist in any capacity to deliver anything, but never let a goal or a dream get in the way of your ideology and the way that you chase it down.</para>
<para>We know that there is a proven technology that is zero emissions, is absolutely reliable, can be scaled up and down, will firm the grid and, on top of that, does not require the 28,000 extra kilometres of transmission lines. So what we're actually here for today, what we've been asking for—the Greens contribution earlier in the evening failed to use the word 'transmission', let alone 'transmission line' or 'powerline'; we can substitutes some terms in and out there, but they didn't use one, didn't even come close. I don't think she understands the intent of what we're trying to do here: protect rural and regional communities, protect areas of special significance to Indigenous populations, protect the chlamydia-free koalas—even the ones with chlamydia. We're actually not that fussy. We'll even support the koalas that have chlamydia, because we don't think they should have transmission lines going through their habitats.</para>
<para>The thing about this crazy thing called nuclear is that the transmission lines would come from the brownfield sites where the coalition has proposed that the reactors would go. That means no new transmission lines. What those opposite fail to understand—maybe, in their picture book on how energy works, they didn't get up to the page where it explains: generation is one thing; transmission and distribution are another, and that is over 50 per cent of the cost. At the very least, even to be kind to you, it's 50 per cent of the cost. We hear those opposite saying, 'Renewables are the cheapest form of energy,' but that's because the CSIRO's <inline font-style="italic">G</inline><inline font-style="italic">en</inline><inline font-style="italic">C</inline><inline font-style="italic">ost </inline>report, which looked into this, didn't factor in the cost of transmission or distribution, because in their unicorn land they had already been built. Somehow or other, infrastructure that doesn't exist today doesn't need to be costed. In the GenCost review they just decided it already existed. It is puerile. It is lacking any intellectual depth or rigour, the way that this is being pursued. There needs to be some honesty here. Someone on the other side who can actually read the GenCost review needs to have a look at it and see where the costs of transmission and distribution are. They're not there. I suppose it's no wonder Minister Gallagher couldn't answer the question today about how much this was going to cost. She couldn't tell us, because they don't know. They don't know, because GenCost hasn't told them, and we know that GenCost is the only thing they can ever look at.</para>
<para>It's all a bit sad and sorry that, in a cost-of-living crisis, with energy prices being pushed up, we have this absolutely fanciful claim that this race to renewables is somehow going to reduce energy bills. Look at what's happened since these guys have been in government for two years. We now have gas shortages. Victoria sits up on its moral high ground: 'No gas! No more gas in new homes. We're not having gas, but, Queensland: keep that pipeline open and keep pumping it down.' Remember when the hospitals in Queensland were for Queenslanders? The Victorians would be in all sorts of trouble if Premier Miles decided that Queensland gas was for Queenslanders. I was in Melbourne last week. It was a bit on the cold side. It would be a very chilly winter for those in Melbourne. Victorians wouldn't be able to put the hot water on—no warm showers and no heating services. Industry would shut down, but of course, we know that everyone else, pretty much other than those of us sitting on this side of the chamber, actually care about the survival of industry—particularly our heavy industries that we know need affordable, reliable base-load power, none of which is possible with these renewable projects.</para>
<para>Yet somehow, we are here for the 10th time, just trying to get an inquiry. We want to have a little look and go and talk to some of the communities. Clearly we can't talk to the koalas, but I'm sure someone—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cadell</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Interpretive dance.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Interpretive dance? I look forward to that, Senator Cadell. I think you and I could come up with some very good choreography there. I think it would be quite the spectacle. Who is going to go out and talk to these communities? Who is going to talk to Indigenous communities whose cultural heritage sites are about to be demolished? Who is going to talk to communities whose arable farmland is going to be destroyed by solar farms and wind turbines? Who is going to have a conversation about where all the waste is going to be buried at the end of the life span of these renewable projects, which have, by the way, on a nice day—I am being kind—about a third of the life span of a nuclear power plant.</para>
<para>We know the new climate change tsar. I saw today that the incoming Chair of the Climate Change Authority is former Treasurer of New South Wales and federal New South Wales division colleague—know how much I'm loving on them. But they make such good choices—solid choices! A couple of years ago, Mr Kean was claiming nuclear was deadset going to be part of the future. He was actually saying that one of the reasons he didn't think it could be part of the future was that he really didn't understand the small modular nuclear reactors and how they were going to work. But now, he's saying, 'No, no, no—no nuclear,' even though they're in operation in so many other advanced economies around the world. He's saying, 'No, no, no, we can't have that, but we're going to chase green hydrogen.' We're not even just chasing hydrogen anymore; we've had to go up a level. We've had to go green hydrogen, which has delivered nothing.</para>
<para>Just step up, Greens. Just come and join the party. Get an inquiry. We know the Labor Party is going to oppose it, but come over and sit with us and say: 'How do you do? Let's get an inquiry. Let's go save those koalas. Let's make sure that we're not going to use landfill for all this used renewable stuff, and make sure we're actually going to have some sort of oversight of these renewables project and know that in 20 years or 15 years, we're not going to be stuck with where we put them.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the chair is that the reference proposed by Senators Colbeck and Cadell be agreed to. A division having been called, the matter will have to be deferred until tomorrow. The debate is adjourned accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>106</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r7181" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
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          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to continue my contribution from earlier today on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. After the initial comments that I made just before lunchtime today about the need for the Senate to properly scrutinise this bill, for the Senate to be able to consult with the community that is impacted by this bill and to consult fully with NDIS participants to understand the impact on them, I do stand here tonight knowing that the coalition will support some of the sensible measures in this bill because some of them were measures which the coalition itself sought to implement but which the government at the time actively campaigned against. It is very clear—and even this Labor Albanese government has finally been forced to admit—that the NDIS is not on a sustainable path. Huge amounts of taxpayer money are not being spent responsibly and the result of that is that there is less money available in the NDIS to those who need it most and to those who most need the support that the NDIS is able to provide.</para>
<para>Those on the government benches for a long time refused to admit that this was a reality. In opposition, Labor stood in the way of the coalition's attempts to put the NDIS on a more sustainable footing. The now minister, Mr Shorten, when he was in opposition accused the coalition of 'pearl clutching Kabuki theatre', claiming the NDIS was 'tracking just as predicted' and that the coalition was 'hyping fictional cost blowouts'. While he was the shadow minister for the NDIS, Mr Shorten said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You can't move around the corridors of parliament in Canberra without tripping over a coalition minister whispering the scheme is unsustainable. I'm here to tell you today that is a lie.</para></quote>
<para>In reality, as this government has now been forced to concede, the scheme is absolutely not on sustainable footing.</para>
<para>Mr Shorten and those on the government benches and the Prime Minister went to the election promising that no plans would go backwards and that the scheme was sustainable as it is. Now we have the claim from the government that the scheme is growing its cost base too quickly. But, like I say, there is absolutely no doubt that the NDIS needs sensible reform. As the ABC recently reported, this financial year alone 'at least $8 billion worth of funding intended for people with disability is allegedly being abused by crime syndicates'. That is a disgraceful situation. I don't think any taxpayer in this country would be happy to hear that taxpayer money that should be rightly going towards supporting those in our community with disabilities is ending up in the hands of crime syndicates. Australians and those on the NDIS have every right to be angry about that.</para>
<para>Recently we have seen countless media reports highlighting stories where serial sexual abusers, rapists and paedophiles are receiving substantial support from the NDIS—sometimes worth more than a million dollars—to live under supervision in the community after their release from detention. Urgent review is needed to disclose how many individuals with serious criminal convictions are receiving NDIS funding and how many of those are on self managed plans. During a Senate estimates hearing in March we heard that 2½ thousand NDIA participants have interacted with the justice system. The minister needs to come clean about just how many NDIS participants have serious criminal convictions and how many of them are on self managed plans. This is vitally important to not only protect the safety of carers and providers but to also preserve the integrity of the scheme. This isn't a standalone case, it's not an isolated occurrence and Australians have every right to be concerned.</para>
<para>Sadly, this legislation we are debating this evening goes nowhere near addressing this incredibly important issue. At the appropriate stage the coalition will move amendments that we believe will improve the scheme, preserve the scheme's integrity and ensure the sustainability of the scheme to allow it to continue improving the lives of some of the most vulnerable individuals within our community.</para>
<para>But, as I said in my initial remarks earlier today, insufficient time has been provided for proper consultation with the sector and the community on this bill that we're debating here this evening, and we know that there are those within the sector and within the broader community who have expressed widespread misgivings about the current legislation. The opportunity for a thorough consultation is important in bringing the NDIS back onto a sustainable footing in a manner that does not disadvantage or impact negatively on participants most in need, and, as I said earlier, it is incredibly concerning that the Community Affairs Legislation Committee wasn't given the opportunity to consult the sector as fully as committee members would have liked on government amendments which were tabled on the day of a public hearing. This in itself shows the need for further consultation on this legislation that we are debating here this evening.</para>
<para>The coalition notes that legislative instruments and rules are still under development and that the Senate and the disability community have not been provided with substantial detail on these instruments and rules to date. The 2½ days of hearings that were conducted by the Community Affairs Legislation Committee pointed to significant concerns from the disability community about the lack of detail and potential unintended consequences of the current legislation without significant amendment.</para>
<para>I don't mean to bang on about this, but we have to remember that we are a chamber of scrutiny. When those in the broader community, through that Senate committee process, are raising concerns with a piece of legislation that is before this chamber, I think that we all need to do a bit of due diligence here and ask ourselves whether it is right for us to be passing this legislation through this place in a situation where those concerns are still being raised and where a more extensive committee inquiry process could have given the opportunity for that committee to report to this place, say, 'Concerns are being raised,' and request that the government go back to the drawing board, look at some potential amendments or think about how those concerns raised by members of the community might have been allayed.</para>
<para>Given the broad consensus on the need for greater consideration and the coalition's willingness to work constructively with the government, it is, frankly, disappointing that this government has opted to object to a reasonable request for an extension to the reporting date for this legislation and for a meaningful hearing day with the NDIA. Frankly, without further time for proper consultation, at this stage my hope would be that this bill would be referred back to the Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee for further inquiry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to endorse the work of my colleague Senator Steele-John in opposing the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 for the reasons that were explored at length in the Senate inquiry, which exposed just what a significant change to the scheme has been proposed by the government with this bill—not a tweaking or a little tuck and trim but some fundamental changes to some of the most important core elements of the scheme. These are changes that have been rushed through and that the government have been so embarrassed about that they tried to consult with parts of the sector and disability advocates under confidentiality agreements, and we're here today after this government, the Albanese Labor government, shut down the Senate inquiry, which still had more essential work to do to explore the real ramifications of this bill. Is it any wonder that the Greens will be opposing this bill?</para>
<para>There has been significant community backlash to this bill, with organisations and disabled people and their families trying to tell this chamber, the Albanese Labor government and the coalition opposition about the harms this bill will do, but nobody seems to be listening. The government has not even pretended to make the kind of effort needed to address those criticisms and instead has engaged in what can only be described as a bad-faith, amateurish campaign to attack the scheme—its own scheme. As recently as tonight, it whacked out a media release suggesting that some random committee is going off to Brazil, not attached to this inquiry. Does nobody in the Labor Senate team talk to the minister's office about how the Senate works? Before the minister's office whacked out the media release tonight, apparently attacking the committee that reviewed this bill and saying they want to go off on a jaunt to Brazil, did nobody check and find that it wasn't that committee? Has nobody got the minister's phone number to say: 'Hang on, mate. You got it wrong—wrong committee, wrong country. What are you doing?' No, because they're so keen to trash-talk the scheme—so keen to trash-talk anybody who's not willing to just buckle under the government's agenda here—that they're even putting out these farcical amateur media releases as we're speaking. I mean, who's in charge on this stuff?</para>
<para>We know why the government's so keen to do the trash-talking and talk down the scheme. It's because they want to cut $14.4 billion from the scheme. That's what we saw in the budget: $14.4 billion cut from people who most need it in this country, in a cost-of-living crisis—choosing to take $14.4 billion from the NDIS that will lead to disabled people not getting the support they need. That was one of the most significant measures in the Albanese budget. Instead, they're committing to $368 billion on nuclear submarines—and a $14.4 billion cut to people with disability. They're proposing $45 billion plus on a bunch of Hunter frigates, a bunch of warships that people think might even capsize because they're so badly designed—if they ever get launched. So, $45 billion for frigates, and a $14.4 billion cut for people with disability. And $5 billion on a bunch of attack class helicopters that nobody thinks will survive 15 minutes—15 seconds, probably, even on a modern battlefield—to their mates in US arms manufacturing—and a $14.4 billion cut to people with disability. There's $5 billion for US jobs for their nuclear submarine industry, and $5 billion for UK jobs, for those struggling people at Rolls-Royce, for their nuclear submarine industry—and a $14.4 billion cut for people with disability.</para>
<para>Those are the Albanese government's priorities. That's what we saw in this budget—and shame on you for doing that. And then to run this disingenuous attack against the scheme, through highly paid spin doctors, including a $600,000 per annum salary, I think it was, for Shorten's chief spin doctor, his speechwriter? And a—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, if you could please refer to members of the other place by their appropriate titles—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Shorten—a $600,000 salary for a PR spinner in Minister Shorten's office and a $14.4 billion cut to people with disability. And $400,000 was spent on RedBridge commissioned focus groups by Minister Shorten's office—and a $14.4 billion cut to the budget for people with a disability. And what did RedBridge come out with? They came out with this ugly smear campaign. They actually put it in writing. This is what they said to the government. They said there was a bit of a problem trying to sell a $14.4 billion cut to support for people with disability; that might not pass the pub test. So they decided they'd spin it, and they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">When we presented rorts, fraud, and unreasonable pricing as posing an existential threat to the NDIS, we were able to create an environment in which respondents were amenable to reforms designed to counter these things—</para></quote>
<para>and make a $14.4 billion cut. So, when you highlighted a tiny, tiny minority of spending being potentially misapplied—some of it clearly misapplied—and when you made it about that and not about the essential needs of people with disability, the spinners in the minister's office thought they could sell this cut.</para>
<para>Well, the disability community aren't fooled, because they know what it means to them, their friends and their families. They know what a $14.4 billion cut looks like. It looks like some pretty tough, brutal years of not having the support you need, of your carers being utterly exhausted, of people not getting a break, of people not getting essential medical and other support needs. They know that's what it means, that it's not just a media release.</para>
<para>Then, when you look into the detail of the bill, this government wants to set up some sort of framework for pushing people off the NDIS into some supports that it thinks that, at some point, the states and territories might provide. There's no pathway identified for the government to have these state and territory supports in place in any reasonable time and no identifiable funding arrangement, so what will Labor do? It'll kick people off the scheme and push them towards services that don't even exist, leaving them with nothing.</para>
<para>The bill will also make it easier for bureaucrats to put up walls and barriers to prevent people—people who desperately need help—from getting onto the scheme in the first place. The bill is also going to allow bureaucrats to force disabled people to undergo mandatory psychiatric or physical examinations in order to make a decision about whether or not they will take them off the scheme. That is unquestionably going to traumatise and retraumatise many participants, and many won't be willing to do that. Many who won't be willing to go through that further traumatising review by some hatchet doctor chosen by the scheme are then going to find themselves kicked off the scheme.</para>
<para>What about the practical reality of somebody who can't get a psychiatrist's assessment or the specialist's assessment within 90 days? The practical reality is that thousands and thousands of people with disability won't be able to, and the government's quite comfortable with them just being kicked off the scheme by a bureaucrat who has chosen to given them that requirement. There are so many things in this bill that were not properly explored. They were not properly explored in the inquiry because the government wanted to shut it down when it got too hot.</para>
<para>But it wasn't just in the inquiry where we saw this government trying to gag the community and silence advocates and silence people with disability. Did I mention that this is a bill that's proposing to make some of the most significant changes to the scheme in the 10 years that it's been up and running? I want to say this about the scheme: yes, we have the coalition talking about criminals and we have Labor talking about junkets to Brazil that don't exist and attacking the scheme. This scheme has fundamentally changed people's lives for the better. It has lifted people out of poverty, giving them the support that they've desperately needed, and made this country a fairer place. It's incredibly important. If you care about a society that treats people with genuine equality, then the NDIS is critical to that.</para>
<para>This government sought to ram these changes through without any kind of transparent consultation with the disability community. There was no attempt to build consensus or to understand whether there was a way of working together or of travelling together to find ways to hold down cost pressures but keep the core support and the core decency of giving people agency and power over the packages of support that they need. There was no effort at all to do that. Instead—this evidence was presented to the committee—groups and individuals were picked out one by one and invited to participate in consultations, but they were required to sign legally binding gag agreements, or non-disclosure agreements. There wasn't a single public consultation process for this bill before it was introduced. How bad must a change be for you to sign up the community to non-disclosure agreements before being willing to talk to them? It's this bad. It turns out that it's '$14.4 billion cut to people with disability' bad. That's the kind of bad it is.</para>
<para>Having consulted in secrecy and gagged the sector, they then didn't even put out a draft bill. There was no exposure draft. There was no opportunity for the community and disability groups to consult on an exposure draft. They just rammed in a bad piece of legislation downstairs. They rammed it in and tried to ram it through, and the bill as introduced does some pretty noxious things. It introduces so-called 'NDIS supports' to replace the core concept of the existing scheme, which is 'reasonable and necessary supports'.</para>
<para>Do you know one thing that gives people with some comfort about the NDIS? At the core of the NDIS is a promise that if you have a disability and you need help you will get reasonable and necessary support. That is such a fundamental promise that should be made—and kept—to people with disability, but this bill rips it away. It removes that fundamental pillar from the NDIS. Instead of that, it talks about 'NDIS supports', which will be defined by the government, put in neat categories, listed on a table and have no connection to a person's actual life and to what they need to live their life to the fullest. It totally removes that reference to somebody as a whole person with a complex set of needs and, instead, it chops and dices and slices people on the basis of that little disability there, this issue here and that issue there, and refuses to treat people as people. That's really what's at the core of this: this refusal to treat people with as whole people with real needs. They're going to be begging for individual NDIS supports instead of getting the reasonable and necessary support they need.</para>
<para>What does the sector say about it? The Disability Advocacy Network of Australia—and I want to commend them for the work that they do of bringing together so many groups and showing so much clarity about this bill—said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our organisations are deeply disappointed that the Senate Committee did not listen to the evidence and expertise of people with disability, our families, supporters and organisations, who made extensive, and detailed submissions about the flaws in the proposed legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have engaged with the Committee over three hearings and provided substantial evidence and lived experience. People with disability feel a loss of trust in the Parliamentary process that promises to listen to us, as we contemplate significant reform to the services and supports provided through the scheme.</para></quote>
<para>And they said this, which I think is a telling summary:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The legislation as it stands will restrict support to some parts of a person's disability, instead of their whole person. People with disability told the Senate Committee about how we do not fit into neat little boxes that can be assessed separately. This is unfair, difficult to implement and will result in significant hardship and harm for people with disability.</para></quote>
<para>That's the evidence. Don't do this. Don't rush this legislation through. Don't strip away these core supports. Act with some decency. Press pause, put it aside and work together with people with disability and their supports across this country.</para>
<para>I want to commend my colleague Senator Steele-John for the work he's done. We're up here in the bleachers of this chamber, and I'm proud to sit next to Senator Jordon Steele-John, but, after six years, surely my colleague should be able to sit anywhere in this chamber—surely he should. It's that mindset that keeps Senator Jordon Steele-John here and it's that mindset that's going to drive this bill through. Look to people as whole people.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. As my colleagues have already indicated, the coalition will support sensible measures in this bill—measures the coalition sought to implement but Labor actively campaigned against—but we will work constructively with the government.</para>
<para>Before I go on, may I commend you, Madam Acting Deputy President Hughes, for the work that you have done in this space. Of course, the NDIS and the broader issues are something that you have extensive personal experience in. Your contribution earlier in this debate was outstanding. I want to acknowledge that tonight and thank you very much indeed for the work that you do. I appreciate it very much.</para>
<para>At an appropriate stage, the coalition is going to move some sensible amendments that will be necessary to improve this bill. We need to ensure that the integrity of this system is preserved. We all—I'm sure there's unanimity in this place—recognise and value the importance of the NDIS, and we need to preserve the scheme's integrity, so our amendments will seek to ensure the sustainability of the scheme to allow it to continue improving the lives of some of the most vulnerable people within our community.</para>
<para>But what we have seen—Senator Shoebridge was remarking on this throughout his contribution—is that the government is rushing this through. This is true to form with this government. They do this pretty much across every area of policy, whether it's industrial relations, matters of education, matters of energy or insurance related matters. And certainly, when it comes the NDIS, here they are again, rushing through legislation. The stakeholders have said, 'Just pause, suspend this for a moment, engage more with us, put in place the recommendations and the amendments that are necessary to ensure the sustainability of the system to ensure that it's actively and properly meeting its needs.' But, yet again, the government is rushing this through.</para>
<para>It is disappointing to see that, yet again, they're doing this—for them to be rushing on a matter as important as the NDIS is doubly disappointing and is something that should be addressed. They have an opportunity to address that. They could and should send it back to the committee to get feedback and advice from the people who actually understand it and have skin in the game. They'll be able to make a solid contribution in recommending changes to improve the system and make it more sustainable. However, there has been insufficient time provided for proper consultation with the sector, and we have to make sure that we're addressing those concerns. There are widespread misgivings when it comes to this current legislation. It's important that we get it.</para>
<para>The opportunity for thorough consultation is absolutely vital, as I've been saying. Its vital that we get direct feedback from people that understand the system and understand the complexity of it. I met with a provider just last week who was expressing the frustration they find as a registered provider in the system working alongside all these unregistered providers. Matters like that need to be properly considered and addressed so that we can ensure sustainability.</para>
<para>The coalition notes that legislative instruments and rules are still under development, and the Senate and the disability committee have not been provided with substantial detail on this to date. The two-and-a-half days of hearings conducted by the committee pointed to significant concerns from the disability community about the 'lack of detail and the potential unintended consequences of the current legislation without significant amendment'. There is broad consensus. We can all agree in this place that there needs to be changes to improve the effectiveness of the NDIS and, importantly, to ensure its sustainability.</para>
<para>There is a unanimity when it comes to that first point of effectiveness. I would hope that there is unanimity when it comes to its sustainability, although some seem to advocate for a free-for-all, which, of course, would mean that it's not sustainable. We have to address these matters. Unfortunately, this bill has some deficiencies, which stem from a lack of real understanding of the impact. By pausing and allowing more time to look at it, the government can be confident, and this parliament can be more confident that the changes that are needed are, in fact, being put in place.</para>
<para>The coalition has always been fully committed to ensuring that the NDIS is fully funded and sustainable. Fully funded is a demand-driven scheme. It's always been clear that the NDIS has to be sustainable to ensure that it delivers not just for now but for many generations to come. It is quickly becoming unsustainable. It pretty much is now, but certainly, in years to come, it will become even more so. That puts the care and the need for that care at risk for all participants, particularly those most vulnerable. That would be an absolute travesty.</para>
<para>When Labor were last in power, they quite significantly underinvested in the NDIS. It was very poorly designed. We were able to make many changes in our time in government, but there was a lot that we wanted to do, but we couldn't get the support of the Labor opposition for the necessary changes, some of which are actually here in this bill. It's disappointing. I heard the Leader of the Opposition—I think it was in his first budget reply—offer to work constructively, in a bipartisan way, with the Minister for the NDIS, Mr Shorten, to reform the system to make it more sustainable. To date, there has been a stonewalling and a tin ear. It's unacceptable, because this matters to all Australians, and of course it matters most to those who are in receipt of and need the support of the NDIS—not just the individuals but their families. Those that care and those that are involved in the system need the changes. Labor stood in the way. I don't know why. Maybe they just like to play politics. This should not be a thing that you play politics with. As I said, Mr Dutton, the Leader of the Opposition, has offered to work constructively, in a bipartisan way, to take the politics out of it, to ensure that the system is sustainable, that it's able to be worked out.</para>
<para>Labor underinvested, as I said, in the NDIS. We in government continued to fund it, yet we heard in the election campaign complaints and campaigning slogans saying that the government at the time was not investing fully in the NDIS, was not providing the full funding. Well, that is ridiculous, because the budgets year after year increased funding into the scheme. The Labor mistruths that come out throughout their campaigns were certainly not missing when it comes to this program.</para>
<para>We heard lots of other mistruths throughout the campaign—things that they also said that they would do that we know that they haven't done, and we keep debating those points, particularly around matters of cost of living. They say one thing but don't actually deliver. When it comes to the NDIS, they claimed that we were underspending on the NDIS, but we continued to put money into it, significant investment—because we do see it as an investment— into the lives of people who are most vulnerable, people who need, who rely on, the system. We invested a record $157.8 billion over four years to support more than 550,000 Australians living with a disability.</para>
<para>The then shadow minister for the NDIS, the member for Maribyrnong, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…You can't move around the corridors of Parliament in Canberra without tripping over a Coalition Minister whispering the Scheme is unsustainable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm here to tell you today that is a lie.</para></quote>
<para>That's what Mr Shorten said in opposition.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order, Acting Deputy President. Senator O'Sullivan, as you probably know, you can't say the word 'lie' in the chamber. I ask him to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, for the ease of the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw. The quote from Mr Shorten insinuated that the government at the time was not telling the truth, and the direct quote was that it was a lie. That was not true. You can't cover up one mistruth with another. It's not true. In the lead-up to the 2022 election, as I said, we were providing significant investment into the NDIS system—$157.8 billion. But it was true that the system, if it were to continue with the design of scheme that it had, would become unsustainable. And that is exactly what the Minister for the NDIS is now saying. He says one thing in opposition, in the lead-up to an election—maybe to win votes from that particular sector—and now, in government, he is hiding. He won't even have a proper inquiry that will actually properly engage with the community to understand exactly how it can be fixed and how it can be made more sustainable because he doesn't want to reveal exactly what's going on. I'm sure that is the case. In government, mugged by the reality of the complex growing scheme, he now not only questions the sustainability of the NDIS but blames young people with autism and those with psychosocial conditions for the cost pressures. That is shameful. It is shameful to put the blame on those young people.</para>
<para>I held an inquiry with my colleagues into the rise of disruptive classroom behaviour last year because Western Australia now has some of the most disruptive classrooms in the country. One of the most significant contributing factors is the fact that children with neurodiverse disorders and learning difficulties, many of them with ASD, on the spectrum with autism, are not getting the support they need and it's actually impacting upon their learning and indeed upon the learning of the other students within the classrooms and the teachers, who are getting exasperated by the fact that they are not able to get the support that they need. It's little wonder we have teachers leaving the education system in droves.</para>
<para>The whole system is like a matrix and it has to come together. Of course, the NDIS is a major part of the solution. Students are now requiring assessments and reviews to take place, and we know that they take months and months. In the case of Western Australia, it can take up to two years to see a child psychologist. Until they get that diagnosis, they are not provided with the resources and the funding that they need that would come through the NDIS. Years ago, the states used to provide it and you would get it in a much more timely fashion, whereas now, under this system, there are delays. So it, of course, needs to change. For the minister to just put the blame at the feet of youth and people with autism or other learning difficulties is an absolute travesty.</para>
<para>My final point—and I have said it multiple times—is: pause, put it to a proper inquiry, get the feedback and come back to the table. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to begin by acknowledging my colleague Senator Steele-John and the fact that he has been in this chamber all day today and, possibly, may be all day tomorrow and the day after. I would like to specifically acknowledge his wisdom in all matters of life, I think perhaps way beyond his age, but also his lived experience in the debate here tonight and, since he has been in the Senate, the fact that he has tirelessly fought as a disability advocate in the Australian parliament for so many people. I would say it's millions of people around this nation.</para>
<para>I had a couple of other personal reflections when I was thinking about this debate on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. I remembered the words of the previous Clerk of the Senate, Dr Rosemary Laing. She was talking once about the committee system. I think this was going back to around 2014 or 2015. She was talking about the Senate committee system being so overloaded with work and the fact that we had inquiry after inquiry—references inquiries, mostly—and the Senate was having to bring in extra staff to cope with the workload. I remember her lamenting—she said this to me privately, but I'm sure she won't mind me saying this in the Senate—that perhaps the days of the great reform work that the Senate committees had done were over at that time because we were under so much pressure to do all these inquiries. She specifically talked about the work that was done through the Senate committee system to develop the National Disability Insurance Scheme and the years of hard work that had gone into that from senators across all political parties and what a great reform that was. I do believe that there have been many other reforms since then, but I want to acknowledge how important this is. We need to think about the importance of this reform and the legacy of the government at the time, the Labor government, who are in power now. We were talking tonight about the sustainability of the system, which is just a code for budget cuts for such a critical reform. What a shame that is for the legacy of this reform.</para>
<para>Senator Steele-John and many of my colleagues have made very strong contributions today about why this bill shouldn't be supported. It's a big deal. It will make huge changes to the scheme that will result in significant harm to people who rely on the NDIS. It's been in inquiry for three months and there were three hearings held and over 200 submissions made to this parliament. And there has been significant community backlash to the bill, with organisations and disabled people and their families sharing the harm it will do to them.</para>
<para>I also remember, as a new senator in 2012, going to a half-day forum on the NDIS out at Devonport. It was for decision-makers, and it was really to help us understand what was coming down the line with this significant reform. I remember sitting in this building in Devonport thinking, 'Wow, this is big and it's complicated and it's critically important.' Of course, like a lot of reforms, it hasn't been perfect. I know Senator Steele-John, as the Greens spokesperson, has talked about concerns around the NDIS over the years and has actually delivered significant improvements because of his work.</para>
<para>But the government in this case has not made a good enough effort to engage with these criticisms. It has instead undertaken a bad-faith campaign to undermine the scheme by talking about fraud and noncompliance. I want to go a little bit more into that. For those who weren't aware, it has been mentioned in here today that Mr Shorten in the other place has spent $600,000 on a speechwriter for himself as the NDIS minister. But the government commissioned RedBridge for $400,000 to pull together some focus groups and look at messaging and how to spin this or sell significant cuts to such a critical reform in this nation. The RedBridge work provided the government with the messaging they needed in order to reach a level of community acceptance that would allow this bill not to be questioned. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… when we presented rorts, fraud, and unreasonable pricing as posing an existential threat to the NDIS, we were able to create an environment in which respondents were amenable to reforms designed to counter these things.</para></quote>
<para>Informed by the RedBridge messaging work, the government has been talking about fraud, dodgy service providers and participants spending money on things like holidays and alcohol to distract the public from this terrible bill. Despite these claims of fraud being made by the NDIA, they were not able to provide any proof when questioned by my excellent colleague recently during Senate estimates.</para>
<para>Let's go back to the budget cuts because that's what we're dealing with here tonight. We're dealing with a government that needs to find money. Of course that's a reasonable operating constraint for any government at any time. But when you're spending half a trillion dollars on nuclear submarines that are arguably not needed—in fact, they are certainly not needed, in my opinion and the opinion of my party. That's half a trillion dollars, and here we are, trying to take $14 billion out of one of the most critical reforms this country has seen in generations. The budget included a cut of $14.4 billion from the NDIS, and that will be achieved by this legislation tonight. When Senator Steele-John talked about this when it was announced in the budget, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In a cost-of-living crisis, the Labor government is choosing to remove $14.4 billion in funding from the NDIS that will lead to disabled people not getting the support they need when they need it.</para></quote>
<para>This government has chosen to abandon disabled people. It has abandoned NDIS workers, and it is passing the buck to the millions of Australians who undertake informal carer roles.</para>
<para>The ALP have decided that it's more important to fund billions in handouts to weapons manufacturers than it is to support our community and the many disabled people that rely on the NDIS to live happy and healthy lives. Every single one of us should have that right. It's clear there is not an essential service that Labor won't cut to fund nuclear submarines and fossil fuel handouts—which, by the way, amount to roughly $46 billion—to companies that pay very little tax or no tax at all, who are polluting our planet, slowly cooking the oceans and so on. This government has betrayed the disability community and it should be ashamed of itself.</para>
<para>Let's talk a little bit about the process around this bill. Or, to be more specific, let's talk about the bad government process. This is a bill that has been created behind closed doors. It was rushed through the parliament to save money in a budget that could have been saved in other places. Disability organisations were required to sign non-disclosure agreements in order to be consulted on the bill. The government spent, as I mentioned before, $600,000 on a speechwriter. I think, Senator Steele-John, your contribution would be worth significantly more than that. There's a life after parliament writing speeches!</para>
<para>On the substance of the bill, this bill sets up the framework for pushing people off the NDIS into supports that the government reckons will be provided by states and territories. Well—reality check—there is no possible way that the states and territories can provide those supports in time in a way that is nationally consistent and that will guarantee no disabled person becomes worse off under Labor's NDIS plan. Removing people from the scheme to services that don't yet exist is outrageously poor planning with obviously harmful consequences. This bill will make it easier to prevent people from accessing the NDIS and it will make it easier for bureaucrats to remove people from the scheme.</para>
<para>The bill is set to prescribe specifics of what you can and what you can't get from the NDIS. This is a blatant attempt to control the choices that participants make. Choice and control is one of the central pillars of the NDIS, and removing it in this way makes it clear that the government prioritises its bottom line over the wellbeing of the disability community in this country. The bill will see a restriction of supports available through the scheme. It will limit our ability to have NDIS plans that are based on our individual needs, and it will replace 'reasonable and necessary' with a new single definition of NDIS supports. This new NDIS support list will only provide funding for supports that meet a new narrow definition, defined by politicians holding the NDIS purse strings.</para>
<para>This bill will also allow bureaucrats to demand that NDIS participants undergo mandatory psychiatric or physical examinations within 90 days in order to make a decision about whether their scheme access should be revoked. This will traumatise or retraumatise many participants and could result in getting unfairly kicked off the scheme. How is someone supposed to get an appointment with a psychiatrist to undergo an assessment within 90 days when waitlists are over a year? As we heard from Senator O'Sullivan, it's two years in some cases in Western Australia.</para>
<para>There are so many methods and processes mentioned in this bill that haven't been defined, including the method for turning an assessment of support needs into a budget. These vague references to methods that calculate budgets are a recipe for robodebt 2, and the Greens will not allow it. This bill will enable the minister to make significant changes to the scheme in the future without community consultation. So much for 'nothing about us without us'! There's room for talking about the need to restrict ministerial powers. Imagine if a minister could snap their fingers and remove a lifesaving service from your life?</para>
<para>As I mentioned earlier, and many other people have mentioned in this chamber tonight, there are significant community concerns about this bill. This bill should not pass the Senate; it should be sent back to inquiry to give the community more time to make their concerns known and to enable further parliamentary scrutiny. Disabled people, those that love them, and anyone who cares about the integrity of government social services should make their feelings known about this harmful bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. It is important to start where Senator Whish-Wilson concluded—that is, with the committee process. Many in this place have heard me stand up and talk about the importance of the committee process. The committee process is what the Senate brings to the legislative framework of Australia. The committee process, at its finest, sees us deliver legislation on behalf of the Australian people that is better legislation. It doesn't always happen, because in the end governments have control and governments make deals, particularly with the crossbench. But the committee process at its finest gives us the chance as legislators to do our best work. And when we have truncated, shortened, very short committee processes that do not give particular issues the adequate consideration, review, a chance to weigh up the evidence or a chance to hear the evidence from a wide variety of sources then we as legislators may miss the mark. Governments, in their arrogance, in their belief that they are the font of all wisdom, can also severely miss the mark. That, I think, is what we are seeing in handling of this bill. We are seeing a particularly arrogant approach from this minister and this government towards a topic that is of great sensitivity.</para>
<para>To highlight some of the complexity in this area, I want to give an example of something I came across. It was very close to our family, some friends of ours. One of the children needed a little bit of help. They hadn't been diagnosed with any particular condition; the parents just wanted to get them a little bit of help, particularly with things like their handwriting and their fine motor skills. So they—privately—went to an occupational therapist. They were very happy with this relationship, and it was going along really well, until the point when the occupational therapist said to them: 'Look, I'm really sorry. I'm going out of this sort of practice. I'm going out of private practice altogether because, while I can charge $100-odd in this environment, I can do the same job within the NDIS and charge a multiple more.' The financial imperative for them became to step out of that space. So a parent who just wanted to get their child a little bit of help is suddenly priced out of the market by the settings put in place by government. Those parents, wanting to do the right thing by their child, wanting to get them the help they needed—not a lot of help, just a little bit of help to get over the hurdles they had—had to go and get a diagnosis for their child and, therefore, gain access to those services at a higher cost. There's something wrong with that system. There is something wrong with the interplay of that system with the wider health environment. There is something wrong with the settings we have in place, and that is why something like a Senate inquiry is so important, because these are terribly complex matters.</para>
<para>This is a system that, as we acknowledge and support, changes the lives of hundreds of thousands of Australians. We have a very strong and proud track record of supporting the NDIS. Contrary to what those opposite said when they were in opposition, we did fully fund the NDIS as a demand driven scheme, but we said at the time that it had to be sustainable. We can't ever walk away from that, because, just as we have responsibilities to NDIS participants, we also have responsibilities to the taxpayers of Australia.</para>
<para>Yet, when in opposition, Labor stood in the way of putting the NDIS on a more sustainable footing. Bill Shorten, the current minister, accused the coalition of 'pearl-clutching kabuki theatre', claiming that the NDIS was 'tracking just as predicted' and that the coalition was 'hyping fictional cost blowouts'. When he was the shadow minister for the NDIS, the member for Maribyrnong said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You can't move around the corridors of Parliament in Canberra without tripping over a Coalition Minister whispering the Scheme is unsustainable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm here to tell you today that is a lie.</para></quote>
<para>This is what those opposite said in opposition, so how can you trust a word they say now, particularly when, as has been highlighted by so many others in this debate this evening, they now wish to have a truncated, rushed Senate inquiry and to ignore the many serious concerns of many in the disability sector—participants and those who work and provide services in that sector, but also health professionals outside that sector whose roles are potentially affected by the sheer size and complexity of the NDIS?</para>
<para>So we have a situation where we need to make sure that this system is delivering what we all want it to deliver. It isn't a simple system. It is a complex system, and we have to acknowledge that and be willing to deal with that as legislators. The one way that we have to deal with the complexity is through the Senate committee process, so, in the first instance, that is where we should be looking in order to guide us in our deliberations—not, quite frankly, this minister, who has an amazing capacity to say one thing when in opposition and then something else when in government and to dance around issues as political playthings rather than dealing with the complexity in a mature way. We're seeing that from this government in other spheres at the moment—an inability to deal with serious topics in a mature way. But I'll stay on this bill.</para>
<para>I've agreed a bit with those so far on the crossbench, including Senator Steele-John and Senator Whish-Wilson, but where serious issues of abuse and serious implications of criminal activity are raised—use of NDIS money for things that were never intended under the NDIS and the potential, therefore, for coercion and criminal elements to be involved in the process—I think that is very worthy of consideration by governments and very worthy of a strong ray of sunshine being shone on the system and what is going on within it. We've seen countless media reports highlighting stories where serious sex abusers, rapists and paedophiles have been receiving substantial support through the NDIS—sometimes more than $1 million—to live under supervision in the community after they're released from detention. Urgent review is needed to disclose how many individuals with serious criminal convictions are receiving NDIS funding. During a Senate spillover hearing in March of this year, we learned that 2,500 NDIA participants have interacted with the justice system. This is something that does deserve serious examination.</para>
<para>We've got issues with transparency. I note once again that, when in opposition, the minister—the then shadow minister—repeatedly called for greater transparency about the NDIS. Yet, in government, Labor has sought to reduce transparency within the scheme. Under Bill Shorten's watch as minister, from April 2023 the NDIA has no longer been publishing monthly reports. They're moving to quarterly reports instead. These quarterly reports are also being published late. I'm not sure why that would be the case. Most of the information is collected electronically these days—not all, but most. So you'd wonder why we see such continually late reporting of this important information. Once again, it's important not just to participants but to our entire society for trust and confidence in the system to be maintained.</para>
<para>NDIA officials also refuse, when questioned at Senate estimates, to disclose data that the NDIA already holds for these reports. Personally, I don't think that is acceptable behaviour. I cannot see any commercial-in-confidence or other public interest immunity claim which would justify the withholding from a Senate committee of information that will become publicly available. That is the job of Senate committees. That is our job at estimates. Without consulting the NDIA or providing any modelling, Labor came to the conclusion that the annual growth cap on the total cost was to be no more than eight per cent by 1 July 2026, without any explanation on how these cuts to the growth of the scheme would be achieved.</para>
<para>Sadly, we also see in this bill just some really fundamental process mistakes, shall we say, such as the explanatory memorandum, as it was originally circulated, just having references to sections in the bill that didn't exist. This is a quite extraordinary lack of attention to detail from a government and, quite frankly, from a minister who claims to have the best interests of this system at heart, when simple things like that slip through the cracks and repeated and multiple references are made to proposed subsections in the bill that don't even exist.</para>
<para>It is not clear from the bill what a participant can do if they don't agree with the outcome of a needs assessment. The bill is silent on that. Again, that is something that a Senate committee could actually get to the bottom of. It could recommend some amendments to the bill. I would have thought that's pretty fundamental. If you do have a needs assessment undertaken and a participant disagrees with the outcome of that needs assessment, surely the bill should contain the provisions, the process and the pathway that the person with a disability can take following that reassessment of their needs. The NDIA, quite frankly, has a reputation for being notoriously inconsistent and highly variable in its treatment of relatively comparable individuals. That again highlights the need both for a proper Senate inquiry and for the complexity of this system to be under that ray of sunshine to make sure that clarity is provided, not just for those on the scheme but also for those who work with the scheme, those who support them and all others in Australia who take a deep interest in this policy area.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024. I wish to start by associating myself with the excellent comments made by Senator Steele-John on this bill. I also want to thank him for his incredible work alongside the community on this.</para>
<para>The Labor government seems determined to take disability policy back decades, back to a time when Australia was ranked as one of the worst amongst OECD countries for the wellbeing and prosperity of disabled people. The NDIS was a once-in-a-generation opportunity to do better for disabled people, and the Labor government has utterly failed to realise this opportunity.</para>
<para>This bill only serves to take the scheme further from its roots, further from the vision outlined by disability activists who worked so hard for the NDIS to be realised. Its passage through parliament will mean fewer people will be able to access NDIS support and fewer people will be able to access sufficient, high-quality, personalised support. It will mean that disabled people are not empowered to live the lives that they deserve. It will mean that disabled people will continue to live in fear of when the next cuts are coming. It will reinforce to disabled people that the government does not want to listen to them. That is, of course, thoroughly disappointing, but it is not unsurprising to see the Albanese government turn their backs and betray yet another community.</para>
<para>The disability community engaged in the bill inquiry process in good faith, providing the committee with invaluable information, however short and truncated the inquiry was, even during a time of significant exhaustion for many following the NDIS review and the disability royal commission. Yet, despite the strength, resilience and continued advocacy across the country, which continues to provide input, advice and proposals for reform, the government has ignored them. Instead, the government chooses to listen to consultants and bureaucrats more concerned with News Corp reports of cost blowouts than with the lived experience of disabled people.</para>
<para>In drafting this bill, the Albanese government had the perfect opportunity to listen to what the community is asking for, to listen to practitioners, to listen to families, to listen to caregivers, to listen to representative bodies and then deliver what they're asking for. But they have ignored the demands of the community, rushed through the inquiry process and bowed to the demands of conservative politicians and media, more concerned with balanced budgets and tax cuts for the rich than with the safety and wellbeing of disabled people. Instead of listening, the Labor government has fostered an ill-informed narrative that focuses on fraud, criminality and cost rather than engaging with the real issues and listening to those whose lives are so deeply impacted by the NDIS. Not only has the Labor government failed to listen to disability communities; it has actively sought to manipulate community sentiment, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars of public money on focus groups and messaging. This is a real rort.</para>
<para>The Labor government says this bill saves us billions, but what of the costs of cutting $14.4 billion of NDIS funding? Have they considered the cost to family members who would need to leave employment to care for relatives who are no longer covered by the NDIS? Have they considered the independent support workers who will no longer be able to provide care and who will be out of jobs? Most importantly, has the government considered how these individuals feel? They feel completely abandoned by a government that promised them so much and delivered so little.</para>
<para>The Labor government should be ashamed bringing this piece of legislation into the Senate. They can find billions in their budget for nuclear submarines and billions more to subsidise climate-wrecking fossil fuel companies, but they can't find the money to ensure the rights of disabled people are protected and to ensure that disabled people can access the care that they need and live a life that they deserve. This bill is a complete contradiction of the principles of choice and control that are so central to ensuring high-quality care. As the Greens stated in their dissenting report to the inquiry into this bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Removal of individualised reasonable and necessary supports …</para></quote>
<para>…   …   …</para>
<quote><para class="block">… is a blatant attempt to control the choices that participants make. Choice and control is one of the central pillars of the NDIS and removing it in this way makes it clear that the Government prioritises their bottom line over the wellbeing of the disability community.</para></quote>
<para>Yet here we are. This bill further removes power from the individuals on the NDIS, shifting power back to bureaucrats with no lived experience of disability and who may have minimal understanding of the individual before them.</para>
<para>As usual it is the people who face intersectional discrimination, who are disabled but who are also from First Nations communities, who are from communities of colour, who are living in poverty or who are part of the LGBTQIA+ community, who will be worst hit by these changes. As the government strips back the NDIS, restricting access and restricting support, it is those with the most resources, those with the most social capital, who will continue to be able to access support, while those who are multiply marginalised will be left out in the cold.</para>
<para>In recent months I have heard from many constituents who are really scared. They are scared about the government taking away supports that they have worked so hard to have in place. They are scared about having to secure housing that might be taken away. They are scared that they will no longer be able to direct the support that they need and that they choose. They are scared by a government that backs further and further away from its promise of genuine, authentic co-design.</para>
<para>Disabled people deserve to live a life free from the fear of where the next government cuts are coming from. They deserve to be listened to and to have their voices heard. They deserve to have the same choice and control over their lives as everyone else in the community. This bill does the opposite of that and it should not be passed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to speak on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Getting the NDIS Back on Track No. 1) Bill 2024 and support comments made in this chamber about having a much more sustainable NDIS system whereby the money goes to the people who need it but isn't wasted on people who don't need it. It is interesting. I actually read an article yesterday online in Brisbane's <inline font-style="italic">Sunday </inline><inline font-style="italic">Mail</inline> about how the National Disability Insurance Scheme is now being gouged by private equity owners. Let me tell you that the moment you hear the words 'private equity' you really need to find yourself a very good proctologist, because these people gouge the system. It doesn't matter whether it's public or private. I am sure that the NDIS system wasn't set up so that we could make wealthy billionaires wealthier.</para>
<para>I have always been of the belief—and I have said this in regard to banking and everything like that—that the best system to have in any country or any particular part of the economy is a private sector that encourages efficiency and productivity et cetera but also a backstop with public competition as well. In the health system, we have public and private hospitals. In the education system, we have public and private schools. I, myself, am advocating for a public bank because I believe that since we privatised the Commonwealth Bank we've seen the private banks gouge the market. We haven't got greater competition; what we've got is greater market concentration. I think that, in the NDIS system, we must have a backstop in the public sector, as well, that can provide ethical, solid—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Rennick. You will be in continuation.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>116</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>116</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to congratulate the Hon. Matt Kean on his appointment to the Chair of the Climate Change Authority. The Climate Change Authority is a vital independent statutory body that provides advice to government on how we transition our energy grid and, indeed, our entire economy to net zero. It's critical advice to ensure that all Australians have a share in the benefits of that transition and in the provision of the cheapest, cleanest power available.</para>
<para>Matt Kean is familiar to many. He was the New South Wales Treasurer and Minister for Energy and Environment, and he did a fantastic job. He is a great appointment. We know this because he has shown excellent judgement in his operations so far. When it comes to Australia's energy needs, he understands the opportunity that the transition to clean energy provides us with. He also understands how risky and reckless it would be to walk away from the work that is already well underway. The transition to renewables is essential for the security of our energy system into the future.</para>
<para>Peter Dutton announced last week that, if he wins government, he wants to build at least seven nuclear reactors. We are in the middle of an energy transition. This is a conversation that has been going on for a very long time. With the transition that we've been seeing over the past couple of years, with government, business and the community all investing in renewable energy as the future of this country, we're on the road to that renewable energy future. To throw it all away on a policy with no detail is just economic vandalism. We will be at 82 per cent renewables by 2030, on a cheaper, more reliable energy plan for this country. But this—to coin a phrase—'all tip and no iceberg' policy puts all of that at deep, deep risk. When asked this morning whether he thought nuclear energy should play a role in Australia's energy transition, Mr Kean referred to his previous experience in New South Wales as the energy minister. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I didn't want to bankrupt the state and I didn't want to put those huge costs onto families. That's why we introduced the Electricity Infrastructure Roadmap, which planned the transition to renewables, backed up by firming and storage, because we know that was the cheapest option for New South Wales. It could be rolled out the quickest and deliver the future that we wanted.</para></quote>
<para>That's pretty clear, isn't it. If that's true for New South Wales, it will have the same impact across the rest of the country. Nuclear energy is too slow to keep the lights on. It is too expensive to build at this stage, and it is too risky to Australia's energy needs.</para>
<para>What we have seen is a decade of delay and denial from those opposite. Under the coalition's decade in government, they did precisely nothing to secure Australia's energy future. Twenty-four out of 28 coal closures either happened or were announced in that time. They did nothing in that time to progress nuclear—not one piece of legislation, not one penny, nothing. Fundamentally, they wasted a decade. They've left Australia with our energy needs in a really challenging situation. Knowing that we needed a plan for new energy, as future coal exited the market, they did nothing at all. And now they decide that it's time to do nuclear, when they did nothing for all of that time. Before I finish, I will quote Matt Kean, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is not about ideology, this is about outcomes. And the experts tell us, and I agree with them, that if we get this transition right, we can not only put downward pressure on electricity bills for families and businesses right across the country, but we can protect our environment and make our economy even stronger and more prosperous for everyone forever.</para></quote>
<para>The nuclear option in Australia is the biggest risk to energy security, it is the biggest risk to current business investment and it is the biggest risk to energy prices for Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International St John's Day, Heard, Mr David Cameron</title>
          <page.no>117</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McLACHLAN</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today we celebrate St John's Day—24 June is the feast of St John the Baptist. Ahead of this week in the Senate, I attended the St John Ambulance SA rededication service at St Augustine's Anglican Church. It is a beautiful service held each year, where the volunteers of St John dedicate ourselves afresh to the service of God and humanity.</para>
<para>In the St John family, we seek to practice our virtues with grace and determination in order to live our lives with courage and sympathy. We aspire to be marked out as people of compassion in a world ridden with selfishness. In this chamber, I wish to honour a man who exemplifies this tradition of service. He has dedicated his life to being caring and compassionate. I speak of David Heard, an outstanding South Australian volunteer and knight of the venerable Order of St John. At 91 years of age, David has been recognised as the world's longest-serving St John Ambulance volunteer, having dedicated more than 80 years of his life to St John.</para>
<para>David joined the Colonel Light Gardens St John division in 1944 while still in primary school. He was on duty at the corner of King William Street and North Terrace in Adelaide on 15 August 1945 when victory in the Pacific was declared, marking the end of the Second World War. In 1950, David commenced volunteering as an ambulance officer. The ambulance service was then staffed with St John volunteers. Every Friday and Saturday night, David responded to motor vehicle accidents, witnessing as much trauma as our paramedics do today. After meeting his wife, Joy, the happy couple moved to Murray Bridge, where David helped manage Joy's family property. Sadly, Joy passed away in 2020. She was a great support to David and his passion for caring for others. She was a nurse and also a member of St John.</para>
<para>David joined the Murray Bridge division where he helped to found St John volunteer services in Mannum, Mount Pleasant, Tailem Bend and Meningie. He was also instrumental in the establishment of the cadet divisions in Murray Bridge, Tailem Bend, Mannum, Karoonda and Mount Barker. Through these efforts, David developed the next generation of St John volunteers. Today, David continues his service and has no intention of retiring. He continues to serve as treasurer of the St John Ambulance Historical Society and is the patron of the Murray Bridge Rowing Club. St John's service is a Heard family tradition. All four of David's children were cadets, as were many of his grandchildren. His daughter, Lorna, continues to serve, as do two of his granddaughters, Emily and Elise.</para>
<para>I thank David for his great service to St John and my state of South Australia. I extend my personal thanks to David for the support and wisdom that he generously provided me when I held senior leadership positions with the St John's state office. I conclude with a few words from the St John hymn: 'Many need a hand to soothe them; many want a brother's care.' Through David's dedication, the many in need have received that care. Pro Fide, Pro Utilitate Hominum.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing, Racism</title>
          <page.no>118</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are in the midst of a housing and rental crisis. It is not the fault of migrants, it is not the fault of people seeking asylum, it is not the fault of refugees and it is not the fault of international students. The housing crisis is the fault of governments captured by corporate interests and unwilling to make changes that address the root causes of this crisis. But, rather than invest in large-scale public housing and cap rents, the Albanese government would rather continue its racist dog whistling, engaging in a race to the bottom with the coalition on who can be more cruel and who can hurt migrants and people of colour more. Sean Kelly asked in a <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline> article recently:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What type of national discourse do we want? Are we really willing to make migration and migrants the focus of how we talk about Australia's problems? Have we considered who will suffer if we do?</para></quote>
<para>Well, we know who will suffer. It is the people of colour. We know that, when politicians increase their racist rhetoric on migrants and refugees, it legitimises and normalises hate. It emboldens others to do the same, and this in turn increases the harm and racism inflicted on people who live here.</para>
<para>Not content with the Trump-style antirefugee attack, which will allow the government to ban people from certain countries from ever travelling to Australia, the most recent targets of this new attack are international students. After already proceeding with punitive and misguided changes to international student visas earlier this year, Labor is now continuing this attack on international students with the attempted introduction of international student caps. When I met with international students recently, they made it clear that they do not feel the government cares about them. These students are also struggling with the cost of living and the lack of affordable housing and, rather than having their concerns heard, their lives are being used as a political football to be tossed back and forth in a bid to win racist votes.</para>
<para>These are students who are already struggling with the stress and uncertainty of changes to student and graduate visas that will come into effect on 1 July this year and that also appear to have been introduced with zero regard for the students who have already commenced and, in some cases, nearly completed their studies in Australia. Realising this folly, the Albanese government has withdrawn part of this change, but not for coursework international students. The Labor government would be better off focusing on making our higher education system fairer and more equitable instead of repeatedly targeting international students and using them as scapegoats for the government's own policy failures.</para>
<para>The list of critics slamming the government for capping international student numbers is growing every single week. Just last week, the Group of Eight universities noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is no evidence the approach will work—and significant evidence that it will fail.</para></quote>
<para>Capping international student numbers under the guise of easing pressure on the rental market is not just dishonest dog-whistling conflation; it is bad policy that will do nothing to fix our broken housing system or our higher education system.</para>
<para>During the pandemic lockdowns, we saw international students neglected, abandoned and mistreated at every turn. They were excluded from critical schemes like JobSeeker and JobKeeper. In New South Wales and Queensland they were locked out of disaster payments after floods devastated these communities. Governments have not learnt their lessons at all and continue to treat international students as little more than economic opportunities to be exploited. International students must be supported and treated as full and valued members of our community.</para>
<para>So when will the Labor government stop its dog whistling and scapegoating and, instead, take some real action? Until it does, refugees, migrants, international students and all people of colour across this country will continue to suffer.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth Child Safe Framework</title>
          <page.no>118</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The June Senate budget estimates confirmed that the Albanese Labor government promises lots, delivers little and has scant regard for taxpayers' money. The first job of any government is to keep its people safe—to protect our borders—but Australians now know that that is not the government's way. Labor doesn't leverage the tools or legislation available to it. Labor doesn't act with urgency when the evidence is so crystal clear. Labor does not deliver what it promises, even when safety and lives depend on it, and Aussies know it.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth Child Safe Framework has been in place since 2019. It is blatantly obvious what it is: the Child Safe Framework exists to diminish risk to children in related organisations. Under this government's watch, some senior public servants could not even say if they use the framework. They could not say that all government statutory authorities are complying with it. They could not even say that organisations funded by you, me and the taxpayer are using it. And, yet, this is a government framework. I am talking about organisations that deliver crisis response and domestic violence services. They provide legal advice to support victim-survivors and work with the healing of young children.</para>
<para>The Albanese government ministers are happy to get photos with these organisations and put out media releases to promote their most recent funding decisions when they could have, should have and must have known these same organisations are noncompliant on so many indicators of concern. All organisations should be held to the same standard without fear or favour. No organisation that delivers to the most vulnerable people should be out of scope and no individual running those organisations exempt from great scrutiny.</para>
<para>Amid many administrative governance issues, the peak legal aid body for Aboriginal people in the Northern Territory, NAAJA, has also failed to conduct police and working with children checks on its board and staff. In South Australia KWY, according to its regulator ORIC, whose job is it to check organisations are run properly, said KWY hasn't met government reporting obligations. And these are not the only ones. As of today ORIC says that 1,243 corporations are overdue in their reporting obligations and more than half are overdue over several financial years. How is it feasible not to do an audit of these services? The answer is: it is not.</para>
<para>An audit of organisations that exist to support vulnerable people is needed and it's needed now. That these organisations deliver to the most vulnerable is not a reason not to demand governance compliance; in fact it's the very reason to do so. Every time that there is maladministration or fraud, and no more than in those organisations where there are the most vulnerable and those most vulnerable rely on those services, they depend on them. It's important that they comply. This government hands over taxpayers' money to these noncompliance organisations that deal daily with vulnerable women and children, and with staff and directors who don't have current police and working with children checks. The evidence of that failure speaks volumes.</para>
<para>As shadow minister for child protection and the prevention of family violence, I turn to the spectacular failure of those 500 frontline workers to deliver to this critical sector. In the two-year mark since that broken promise has passed, Albanese is scrambling right now, having delivered just 63 of the promised 500 frontline workers—63 is a long way from the 352 workers expected by the end of the month under the federal funding agreement. That's what happens when your priorities are wrong, when you focus on that voice to parliament rather than responding to the cries of those who need help now.</para>
<para>In August last year Minister Rishworth even said, 'Every new worker employed will be able to make a difference for women experiencing violence,' and yet at the same time she had delivered zero—not a single frontline worker in the sector. This contribution is about a government that fuels a culture of low expectations. The evidence is in. It is simply no longer feasible or responsible for those in this place who say they want to improve the lives of the most vulnerable not to vote for an audit that we've been asking for for so long.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 20:18</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>