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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2024-03-20</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 20 March 2024</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If there are no objections, the meetings are authorised.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Personal Explanation</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a personal explanation under standing order 190.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In question time on Monday 18 March 2024, I made a reflection on Senator Cox that had implications that I was unaware of, and I immediately withdrew it. I've apologised privately to Senator Cox for making this reflection and any offence caused. I also wish to apologise publicly to her and the Senate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Farrell. Senator Cox?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to thank Minister Farrell for his statement today and his public apology. The words that were exchanged during question time were extremely hurtful not just to me but to other First Nations women who were here in the chamber during question time. I think that this is a point of reflection for us here in this place—the higher standard we hold to ourselves about the words that we exchange in this place.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="s1410" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, along with Senator Smith, I am moving the Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024 to step in where the Albanese Labor government and particularly the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Catherine King, have failed. When I was chosen to take on this portfolio as shadow minister, I determined that, if the government was not going to do their job, the opposition would make sure that we stepped up and did the right thing by everyday Australians. Airlines around the world are on notice. Consumers are absolutely fed up with higher airfares, coupled with declining service standards and increasing interruptions. The ACCC's latest airline report showed service reliability remains below long-term industry averages, as flight cancellations and delays remain higher than they should be. Nearly 30 per cent of flights were either cancelled or delayed across the January holiday period, showing there has been no improvement in the on-time performance over the past 12 months. That's according to data released by the Bureau of Infrastructure and Transport Research Economics.</para>
<para>Despite the Prime Minister's claim that Australia has the most competitive airline market in the world bar none—a claim contradicted by his own ministers and government's green paper—Australia has stumbled into a situation where the domestic aviation market is dominated by two airlines. More than 93 per cent of the domestic market is owned or managed by Qantas and Virgin. When this is coupled with the dominance of the two airlines' international codeshare arrangements and frequent flyer programs, the picture becomes very clear: there is an imbalance in consumer choice. The Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill seeks to ensure that consumer choice, convenience and reliability are being prioritised over big business. This issue transcends mere inconvenience. It is a matter of fairness, transparency and respect for Australian consumers.</para>
<para>The global airline industry has witnessed significant changes over the past decade, with jurisdictions around the world bolstering consumer protections to ensure that passengers are treated fairly. For instance, in the EU, the UK and Canada, common rules of compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations or long delays have been established. This comprehensive framework sets a benchmark, ensuring that passengers are not left stranded or out of pocket due to disruptions within the control of airlines. In contrast, Australia's approach to consumer protections in the airline industry, while robust in theory, have often fallen short in practice. The Airline Customer Advocate's annual report highlights a trend of increasing complaints, with issues ranging from flight cancellations and delays to mishandled baggage and disputes over refunds. This trend underscores a growing disconnect between consumer expectations and the services delivered by our airlines.</para>
<para>A case in point is the recent actions by the self-styled national carrier, Qantas. Once a symbol of reliability and national pride, Qantas has been at the centre of escalating consumer complaints. Issues have ranged from significant delays and inexplicable cancellations to allegations of misleading consumers about their rights to refunds or compensations, and I could go on. Indeed, it took the intervention of this Senate through the cost-of-living inquiry last year to shame the former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce into honouring or refunding nearly half a billion dollars in flight credits beyond December 2023. I thank Senators Dean Smith, Matt Canavan and Jane Hume for their work to ensure that former Qantas CEO Alan Joyce fronted that inquiry. Unfortunately Labor, the Greens and Senator Pocock have continued to block any further scrutiny of Mr Joyce by voting down any attempt for this Senate to force him to account for his time as leader of the nation's largest carrier and the part that he played in the flight credit debacle, the serious allegations around ghost flights raised by the ACCC and his involvement in the illegal sacking of thousands of baggage handlers. These issues, coupled with the increasing number of unexplainable cancelled flights, severe delays and frequent situations where you'd fly to one destination and your bags would fly to somewhere else, have led to the general public coining the term, 'You've been Joyced.'</para>
<para>In a landmark move underscoring the gravity of these issues, the ACCC launched legal proceedings against Qantas. This lawsuit, centred on allegations of misleading conduct regarding consumer rights to refunds for cancelled or significantly altered flights, marks a pivotal moment in our pursuit of stronger consumer protections. The ACCC's actions send a clear message: no entity, irrespective of its heritage, its position or its mates in positions of power, stands above the law.</para>
<para>The challenges faced by consumers extend beyond Qantas, reflecting a broader systemic issue within the aviation industry, and these challenges highlight the need for a comprehensive review and overhaul of consumer protections in the airline sector. Australian consumers deserve clear, enforceable rights that ensure fairness and transparency. Drawing lessons from jurisdictions with robust consumer protection frameworks, it's clear that Australia must evolve its approach, and this evolution involves not only adopting best practices from around the world but also innovating to address unique challenges faced by Australian consumers. Our vast geography and reliance on air travel for domestic connectivity amplify the impact of airline service disruptions, making strong consumer protections not just beneficial but essential. I'm sure you'll hear many contributions as we debate this bill that go to that fact. Ensuring fairness and equity in transport is of paramount importance to every individual who relies on air travel. It's an issue that resonates deeply with our values in the National Party. As champions of the regions, we understand better than anyone the lifeline that airline travel represents for connecting our communities, supporting our local economies and bridging the distance that separates us from our cities, our families, our business interests and indeed from health and education services, as is often the case.</para>
<para>It is with this understanding and commitment to serving the people of regional Australia that we recognise the urgent need for enhanced consumer protections in the aviation sector. The Harris review's recommendations for reforming the Sydney Airport Demand Management Act also play a crucial role in our vision for a more reliable and efficient aviation industry. The review's recommendations focus on introducing more dynamic and responsive management practices that can adapt to evolving operational realities whilst minimising environmental and community impacts.</para>
<para>By embracing these recommendations, we can unlock Sydney airport's potential to deliver more reliable services, thereby reducing the frequency of disruptions that so deeply affect passengers—and not just into Sydney airport. This approach not only benefits consumers but also enhances the operational efficiency of airlines and the broader economy. Addressing the operational constraints at Sydney airport presents a golden opportunity to enhance efficiency and reduce passenger disruptions. Unfortunately, after months of sitting on her hands, the transport minister has finally announced the government's response to that review in February. The response can only be described as underwhelming, but it is almost emblematic of this particular minister's work in this space. Only minor tweaks have been made to a system that needs wholesale reform.</para>
<para>The coalition will continue to advocate for greater transparency in slot allocations and for ways to increase competition to ensure that consumers are not the ones being penalised for an airport that is being constrained by government intervention and legislation. In government, we introduced a grocery code of conduct. We are always on the side of Australian consumers, and this bill allows us to once again demonstrate that there is one political movement within the Senate that is absolutely going to stand up for Australian consumers against big corporations, and that is the Liberal and the National parties.</para>
<para>The bill requires the transport minister to introduce an airline code of conduct and a series of obligations to protect passengers that find themselves at the mercy of airlines during significant disruptions. The code would be a significant series of reforms that enhance consumer protections. It is clear and necessary. The time for action is now. We must work together—government, industry and consumers—to improve standards and safeguards. Every single person in Australia has a story of missing significant family events, business meetings or health services as a result of the aviation sector's failure.</para>
<para>Within 12 months of the commencement of this act, the transport minister must make rules prescribing carriers' obligations in relation to flights to and from Australia and within Australia, including connecting flights. This includes an airline code of conduct to provide greater protections for passengers of all carriers, regardless of the type of service. The purpose of the aviation industry code of conduct is to ensure the fair and proper treatment of passengers and that passengers reach their intended destination as booked.</para>
<para>We remember when Qantas was trying to argue that flights weren't from a specific place to a specific destination at a particular time. That's what Australian consumers thought they were buying when they purchased a ticket—but not if you were buying it from Alan Joyce's Qantas. This bill would actually deal with that issue. It would also supplement the Australian Consumer Law and extend those protections to all carriers operating to and within Australia. The code must also make provision for the recourse or intervention available to passengers in the event of improper conduct by carriers, and would strengthen the role of the Airline Customer Advocate and the ACCC in dealing with complaints.</para>
<para>The code requirements for a consistent definition of a ticket of carriage would apply to all tickets of carriage issued by the carriers, including the minimum rights which passengers and third parties are guaranteed when they purchase a ticket of carriage from a carrier. The minister would also be required to address the most significant issues that affect passengers, including delays, cancellations, denial of boarding, lost or damaged baggage and seating allocations of minors.</para>
<para>Drawing inspiration from other jurisdictions that have already enhanced their consumer protections, the bill would require the implementation of a minimum standard of treatment framework for passengers affected by cancellations, significant disruptions or denial of boarding, both domestic and international. The bill requires the minister to specify the standard of treatment in the event of a range of scenarios within the carrier's control. It also addresses situations where there are safety issues, mechanical failure, and natural disaster or security events. This ensures that passengers and airlines have clear obligations in place when unforeseen events occur. These obligations would also ensure clearer communication of entitlement for travel options in the event of disruption and any recourse available against a carrier. Airlines should be required to clearly inform passengers of their entitlements in cases of delays, cancellations, and other service disruptions. This includes straightforward information regarding entitlements to refunds, compensation and accommodation.</para>
<para>You shouldn't have to email senators in this chamber to get action from airlines, which is what occurred following the aviation inquiry last year. Australian consumers, being so frustrated with the aviation industry's pushback on getting simple refunds, had to go through their local MP, and that is absolutely untenable and what this bill seeks to address. There should be clear information and clear recourse, and consumers should have a clear understanding of their rights when they purchase their ticket. We should look at the legal case between Qantas and the ACCC as a warning and ensure that carriers cannot weasel their way out of obligations that our consumer laws are actually designed to protect.</para>
<para>The obligations would also address an issue that affects many passengers travelling with children, by ensuring that children under the age of 14 are seated in close proximity to a parent, guardian or tutor at no additional cost. This provides peace of mind for parents and guardians: they will not be separated from their children by computers randomly assigning them seats far away from their children next to strangers in what is often crowded seating.</para>
<para>The minister has failed on multiple counts. It has been this chamber and the opposition that have had to drag her kicking and screaming to address the obvious failures within our aviation sector. The ACCC cancellation and delays reporting has been reinstated thanks to the work of the opposition. In the evidence to the aviation inquiry last year it was clear: Qantas and Virgin operate under consumer protections when they're flying internationally. Why shouldn't their customers onshore here in Australia be protected by a similar framework? If the minister's not going to step up and do the job, we're very happy to do it for her. We're looking forward to hopefully sending this to an inquiry for further expansion of the issues.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024. I want to start by making it clear that the Albanese government is very supportive of ensuring businesses are accountable to their workers and their customers. It won't come as a surprise to anyone that I personally am very supportive of that principle, especially when it comes to Qantas. What I find astonishing is that Senator McKenzie is now claiming to be worried about the way Qantas behaves, because we never heard a peep out of Senator McKenzie and her colleagues in the Liberal and National parties in the nine years they were in government. At all of the times and in all of the ways that Qantas ripped off its customers or its staff during those nine years, there was no interest from those opposite.</para>
<para>In fact, not only did they not take any action against Qantas; they had to go one step further. It wasn't enough for the Liberals and Nationals to stand by and do nothing when Qantas was illegally sacking 1,700 people. Those opposite had to take the extra step of giving Qantas a $2 billion no-strings-attached handout. And we've seen how much of the taxpayer money so generously doled out by Senator McKenzie and her colleagues has ended up in the pockets of Alan Joyce and his sycophants. It would be funny, wouldn't it—except for the fact that the very behaviour this bill was complaining about was being financially rewarded by the very authors of the bill.</para>
<para>Of course, those opposite haven't turned over a new page at all. It was only last year we saw their true colours come through. At the hearing on the closing loopholes bill on 10 November, Senator McKenzie said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I do personally find it offensive that you made an assertion that I support the Qantas Group underpaying wages … I am not on a unity ticket with Qantas and Alan Joyce when it comes to ripping off Qantas workers through labour hire … And I do ask you to withdraw that because I never have and never will.</para></quote>
<para>There you have it: she never has supported and never will support Qantas ripping off workers through labour hire. Fortunately, you don't have to take my word or her word for it, because just a few weeks later we had a vote on legislation to close the Qantas labour hire loophole. What did Senator McKenzie and her colleagues in the Liberals and Nationals do? How did they vote? They came into the chamber one by one and voted against the legislation. They truly swore their fealty to Alan Joyce and Qantas and their labour hire loophole. It's a matter of public record for all eternity. Talk is cheap. Action is what really matters. By voting against the legislation, you have proven you have no interest in fixing the aviation industry.</para>
<para>Let's take the case of the 1,700 Qantas workers illegally sacked in 2021. Just this week 1,700 people and the Transport Workers Union have taken court action to determine compensation. This government intervened in the case on behalf of those workers. What did the previous government do? Minister McCormack said illegally sacking 1,700 people was 'in the best interests of the company going forward'. Christian Porter said illegally sacking 1,700 people was 'a good model'. Senator Cash said of illegally sacking 1,700 people, 'Qantas are entitled to make those decisions.' That's the record of those opposite on Qantas.</para>
<para>I want to go to the evidence provided by the bilateral air service agreements committee in September. I was on the committee and so was the late Senator Linda White. Between us we both have a bit of experience in taking on airline bosses. Through that inquiry we heard from Damien Pollard. Mr Pollard was one of the 1,700 illegally sacked workers who were abandoned and left for dead by those opposite. Here is what Mr Pollard told the inquiry about the level of support he received from those opposite in his struggle against Qantas management:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Morrison refused to meet us, and I can remember that quite clearly. It's very hard to explain that we actually felt abandoned by the government of the time because nobody would meet with us, except for the Labor opposition. The Morrison government offered no support, and they continued to praise Qantas and say that it was a decision for Qantas. That feeling of abandonment was quite striking. I can remember, many times, various politicians and prime ministers saying, 'We will govern for everybody,' and we just felt that nobody wanted to tackle Qantas. We were left to sink or swim until … the Labor opposition came in, as well as the TWU, and started supporting us.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Pollard went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Scott Morrison, as I said before, refused to meet with us. Michael McCormack did meet me once. He said he could look for some support service hotlines for us. I also remember quite clearly that he told me the best thing that ever happened to him was being retrenched in his early 40s. I thought at that time, 'It may have worked for you, but it's not working for a lot of my colleagues.' I thought it was rather a strange comment.</para></quote>
<para>He went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It seems quite strange to say, but the gentleman who we met with that day seemed more interested in telling his own story than listening to our story. That was the common consensus amongst the other delegates who attended that meeting that day.</para></quote>
<para>So that was the experience of Qantas workers desperately trying to get support from those opposite in their fight against Alan Joyce and Qantas. It is in that context that I look at this bill before the Senate today. At every previous opportunity when those opposite had an opportunity to rein in Qantas, they instead egged their behaviour on. When given the opportunity to save Ansett and Virgin from bankruptcy, those opposite let them collapse while being more than happy to pump $2 billion into Qantas. When this government—this government—intervened in the High Court to support the 1,700 illegally sacked Qantas workers, those opposite opposed it. When we closed the Qantas labour loophole, those opposite sat on their hands and opposed it.</para>
<para>It is clear this bill is nothing more than a political stunt. In nine years, those opposite have had no plan for the aviation industry, no reforms to make the industry fairer for the travelling public or for the people who work in the industry. Together with Senator Sterle, I led an inquiry into the future of the aviation sector throughout 2021 which finished shortly before the 2022 election. That inquiry looked extensively at the workforce challenges facing the industry, including the long-term impact of Qantas's aggressive outsourcing and labour hire strategy. The two coalition senators on that committee said in their dissenting report that looking at those workforce issues was a waste of time and a failure to properly examine genuine aviation industry issues.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on a point of order on relevance.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is relevant. Senator Sheldon.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, that inquiry looked at the workforce challenges facing the industry, including the long-term impact of Qantas's aggressive outsourcing and labour hire strategy. The two coalition senators on that committee said in their dissenting report that looking at those workforce issues was a waste of time and a failure to properly examine genuine aviation issues.</para>
<para>But what did we see once aviation ramped up after lockdowns ended? We saw severe staffing issues that created chaos at our airports, leading Alan Joyce to shift the blame onto passengers for not being 'match fit'. It showed that those opposite have no idea about, or interest in, the broad range of challenges within the aviation industry. We have inherited a real mess in aviation, with a policy for the last decade that left the airlines and airports to self-regulate. Even in the rare cases where those opposite seemed to recognise there was an issue, as in the case of slots at Sydney airport—following a report commissioned by the Harris review—they never bothered to act on the recommendations. The report was left to gather dust.</para>
<para>Then, last year—you won't believe it—Senator McKenzie recommended to her inquiry that the government should 'urgently respond to that report'. They didn't respond to it when they were in government, but now they are out there saying we should respond to it urgently. You can't take them seriously. There is no serious solution being offered for the aviation sector by those opposite. They are just lame attempts to get a headline or to pre-empt what the government is already considering and trying to get ahead. It is not a serious approach for them.</para>
<para>In contrast, we are looking at the sector holistically through the aviation white paper, which will be released in the coming months. That will include looking at the consumer rights that this bill purports to deal with. As the minister said in a press conference on the release of the green paper late last year, 'We are seeking to deliver a more competitive aviation sector. It covers issues in relation to complaint-handling processes, particularly when it comes to canvassing whether we do need a consumer bill or rights when it comes to aviation.' She also said, 'We are considering whether options pursued in other jurisdiction such as a consumer rights charter or a stronger ombudsman model would deliver benefits for Australian aviation sector.' These are part of a string of critically important aviation responses that go to the whole series of matters, including the Harris review. Again, their comments were made more than six months ago, long before this latest thought bubble from the opposition. It couldn't be any clearer when looking at this issue.</para>
<para>When the minister refers to other jurisdictions, I note there have been longstanding policies in places in a number of countries. While the previous government did nothing on this for over nine years, the EU has a scheme where passengers can get up to 600 euros if their flight is delayed by over three hours, and there are similar schemes in the UK and Canada. But it needs to be considered in the context of the broad range of reforms needed to begin fixing the industry. Each piece relates and impacts on the next piece. Pretty logical. But why would we have logic when we want to deal with the aviation industry when there's a chance to get a headline rather than an outcome?</para>
<para>The Transport Workers Union also proposed a safe and secure skies commission. It's an admirable suggestion. It would be an independent body empowered to keep skilled workers in jobs and to lift standards by holding airports and airlines to account for safety and fairness. These are proposals the white paper should be exploring because the industry needs genuine reform after a decade of malaise and inaction by those opposite. There's a real opportunity to get this right. There's a real opportunity for proper debate. There's actually an opportunity for proper consideration.</para>
<para>This multibillion-dollar industry is critical to the arteries of this economy, critical to the social fabric of this country and critical as a fundamental strategic economic approach to how we run our economy. It requires a sophisticated approach, not because I'm opposed to any suggestions but because this is a stunt of a suggestion taken without consideration of all the other impacts on policy that's needed in this area. A white paper going to the strategies, the implementation, the impacts of all those reports that for nine years those opposite have sat on needs to be properly considered and properly weighed up in the interests of all the travelling public and the Australian economy, because the aviation industry deserves something better than a political stunt by those opposite.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the brief time that's available to me, I want to canvass a number of issues. But before I do that, let me just reflect on the contribution that the previous speaker, Senator Sheldon, has made. I note he is the only government senator speaking on the Airline Passenger Protection (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024 this morning, which I think is a powerful demonstration of the government's commitment to aviation consumer issues.</para>
<para>Let me just make these quick points. When Senator Sheldon says the government has a holistic approach to aviation issues in this country, people should hear in that word holistic 'delay', 'procrastination'. When Senator Sheldon talks about the government and the minister for transport 'considering' the aviation white paper, what Australians should hear is that the government is not committed unequivocally—is not committed unequivocally—to doing something with strength on consumer protections.</para>
<para>Let me also just make this point. Senator Sheldon accused Senator McKenzie and myself, the authors of this bill, of yet another thought bubble. Let me tell you about the other 'thought bubble' that Senator McKenzie and myself had last year when we brought to this chamber a private senators bill to reinstate the ACCC monitoring regime. Guess what happened to that 'thought bubble'? Guess what happened to that 'political stunt'? We got the first report in the second tranche of the ACCC monitoring regime. So, in actual fact, when Australians are asked to look at and think about where airline aviation competition policy is being driven from in this country, it's not being driven from the department of transport. It's not being driven from Minister Catherine King's office. It's being driven by this Senate chamber. Who would have thought that the people driving, the people making a case for urgency around improvements to airline aviation issues are, in fact, Senator McKenzie and myself, supported by—rather reluctantly, but it is important to give credit where credit is due—the likes of Senator Pocock, who saw the merit in re-establishing the ACCC monitoring regime when the government did not want to do it. The government's hand was forced by a private senators bill in this place, an issue subsequently taken up by Senator Pocock. When Australians think about who the people are who are most committed now and into the future to driving better outcomes for Australia's aviation consumers, they see it is, in fact, the coalition. Far from being a stunt, far from being a thought bubble, private senators' bills like this one force the government's hand.</para>
<para>And why does the government's hand have to be forced on airline issues—issues designed to drive more competition? I just want you to think about this point: why is it that the government can be so committed to competition in supermarkets that it supported a Senate inquiry, appointed Craig Emerson to conduct a review and has the ACCC conducting a review? Why can the government focus on supermarket competition but be dead silent, with not a shadow of a movement of action, on airline competition issues? The government says, 'We've got an aviation white paper process which will follow the aviation green paper process.' Well, guess what. That is the government's second-term agenda. It is not the government's first-term agenda, because this first term of the government is almost finished. There will be a budget, and colleagues like myself and others speculate that there will be a federal election later this year.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There won't be an election until next year.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, are you saying there's not going to be a federal election later this year?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We can go through consultation—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, there we go. I don't doubt that. I don't doubt the trickery. Senator Farrell says that we can go through to next year. I don't doubt that. That is a fact. That's not in dispute. But will you? I doubt you will.</para>
<para>This is my grand thinking. There will be a federal budget, the government will argue that the economic conditions are improving and we'll have a federal election later this year. And what does that mean for the government's aviation green paper and aviation white paper process? It becomes part of their second-term agenda. And guess who pays for that. With Australian families who want to travel to their loved ones and their extended families across this country, who pays for that? Australia's diaspora communities, who pay higher prices when they want to travel overseas to visit their families, and Australian businesses, who have to fly across this great, vast land of ours in order to do business.</para>
<para>Australians are paying a very high price for the government's inaction. Why do we know that the government is forcing higher prices and poorer outcomes on Australian aviation consumers? Why do we know that? It is because of the ACCC monitoring report released just last month, the first report in the second tranche, thanks to Senator McKenzie and my private senator's bill late last year and thanks to the support of people like David Pocock. Guess what it says. It says that Australian consumers are paying higher prices.</para>
<para>Let me read from the most recent ACCC monitoring report. The ACCC monitoring report is important because it uses the full armoury, the full resources of the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to bring facts to the table about the extent to which this country does or doesn't enjoy competition in our airline industry. It brings facts to the table with regard to prices that Australian consumers are forced to pay. It's not a difficult document to read, and even the laziest of government senators need to read just two pages. Those are the first two pages in the monitoring report. I want to just highlight four or perhaps five comments in the first ACCC monitoring report in the second tranche of reports. The first point it makes is, I think, very, very revealing. It talks about the structural problems in Australia's aviation industry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The trends observed over the past 12 months—</para></quote>
<para>which are negative trends, I might add—</para>
<quote><para class="block">appear to be structural and unlikely to change in the short term.</para></quote>
<para>That is a direct statement by the ACCC, making a judgement, I believe, that the government's reform agenda—if there is one—is not going to happen and is not going to deliver outcomes in the short term. It goes on to talk about the importance of economy airfares:</para>
<quote><para class="block">However, best discount economy airfares have not yet fallen to pre-pandemic levels. The general fall when adjusted for inflation may not reflect consumer experiences, who are still paying significantly more to fly in nominal terms than they did prior to the pandemic.</para></quote>
<para>That's not Senator McKenzie's accusation, nor is it Senator Smith's accusation; that's a comment from the ACCC's monitoring report. It goes on to make this point, which is a critical point when we consider the matter of this bill which goes to consumer protections:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Despite evidence of falling airfares and stability in overall passenger volumes and capacity, service reliability remains a significant concern …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Factors contributing to poor service reliability and within airlines' control, include efforts to manage systemic issues associated with the COVID-19 pandemic, pilot shortages, pilot training bottlenecks and some supply chain disruptions.</para></quote>
<para>That means that these matters are wholly within the domain of Australia's airline industry, and it is up to them. They have the capacity to fix them. But, because the government will not lead by bringing airlines and other stakeholders to the table to discuss and agree better consumer protections, Senator McKenzie and I have been forced to do so in this private senator's bill.</para>
<para>This private senator's bill is not a complicated piece of legislation. It says that the minister representing the government must consult within a specified time period to bring forward to this parliament a range of consumer protections that will substantially improve the experience of Australia's airline consumers. Interestingly, in Senator Sheldon's contribution, he did not say he was necessarily opposed to the bill. He did not. So there's no reason why Senator Sheldon can't add his energy and his very clear and obvious commitment to aviation issues to making sure that this bill passes so that it delivers consumer protections not in the never-never but in the immediate term. Australians are right to ask why, after two years, this government can make other issues—the Voice, for example—a priority but can't make it a priority to drive down prices, improve customer outcomes or deliver better service outcomes for Australian families who pay large sums of money to travel across this country to be reunited with their families or for leisure. Why can't the government make this a priority? Why can't the government fast-track its green paper and white paper process?</para>
<para>Senator Sheldon made another interesting comment. He said, 'All of these bits and pieces in the aviation reform process are interrelated, and they have to be addressed together.' That is just not true. Nowhere does the report say that airline consumer protections have to be dealt with at the same time as other aviation reform issues. Nowhere does it say that. In fact, when the ACCC made its submission to the aviation white paper process in March last year—its submission is now 12 months old—it made no comment about the interrelatedness of various aviation reform initiatives. In fact, pages 26 to 30 of that submission are a very valuable read, because the ACCC's submission acts as an endorsement of this private senators' bill that Senator McKenzie and I have introduced this morning. So whether or not Australians continue to pay higher prices for their airline tickets is completely within the control of the government, and the government's plan so far has been one of delay and procrastination.</para>
<para>And just think for a moment—higher airline prices are coming at a cost to Australian families and their household budgets at the same time they are adjusting to the cumulative effect of 12 interest rate rises, the cumulative effect on household budgets of energy price rises, the cumulative effect of increased prices on shopping centre shelves and the cumulative effect of declining real wages, and the government says, 'There's nothing to see here.' Well, let's give a gold medal to Senator McKenzie in her role as the shadow minister for transport, and therefore aviation issues, for bringing forward to this Senate chamber a real plan that would deliver better outcomes for Australian aviation consumers.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support the Airline Passenger Protections (Pay on Delay) Bill 2024 because it's simply common sense. Australians should be protected and have consumer protections in place when their travel plans are disrupted, especially when those plans are disrupted by the large airline companies, who have significant market power in this country and have been exposed over the past few years as offering substandard customer experiences.</para>
<para>This bill is very simple, and I applaud my colleague Senator Bridget McKenzie for bringing it forward. It simply makes sure that, if an Australian consumer has their flight cancelled, they are properly compensated. There should be minimum standards of treatment. It makes sure that, if you lose your baggage and it doesn't turn up, you are compensated for that loss. I think most Australians would expect that to be the case, but it can sometimes be a costly and time-consuming procedure. It also makes sure that there is a cost associated with lengthy delays to the airline providers to make sure they're not gaming the system in delaying flights or otherwise trying to maximise their profits instead of doing what they promised to do.</para>
<para>These changes are necessary because our major airlines have not been responding to the legitimate customer complaints that we have seen, especially since flying resumed after the COVID pandemic. We have seen airlines state publicly that you don't, apparently, really book a particular time and location when you book a flight these days. According to one airline executive, you just book a right to fly at some undefined point in the future. That is not what Australians expect; it's not what they're told when they go to book. There are particular times when a flight is meant to take off and particular times when it's meant to land. Anything that the airlines think otherwise would be misleading and deceptive conduct in the extreme.</para>
<para>The provisions that are in this bill that Senator Bridget McKenzie has brought forward are very similar to protections that are in place in major other countries, including in the US, in Canada and in European countries too. It doesn't seem to make any sense to me that the government wouldn't be supporting these now. Who cares where the good ideas come from? Let's just support them and get this stuff done. Let's protect the Australian consumers and respond to this major issue. But, continuously over the past 18 months, this government have shown themselves to be running a protection racket for Qantas and the other major airline providers in this country. They have at every step of the way sought to defend the likes of Alan Joyce, the Qantas executive team and the other airlines, and they have done absolutely nothing to rein in the market power position and the abuse of that position that our airline companies are taking.</para>
<para>In response to the pandemic, the airlines all had to cancel a lot of flights, and that wasn't their fault. That was obviously something that was imposed on them, but a lot of flights had to be cancelled. Our airlines were provided with billions of dollars of taxpayer money to compensate them for that unfortunate outcome, and they dragged their heels in providing proper refunds for Australian customers. In fact, I heard from some in the industry that it was an explicit strategy of the Qantas CEO, Alan Joyce, to force people, to push people, into taking a credit for their cancelled COVID-19 flights rather than getting a refund.</para>
<para>Apparently, Mr Joyce established two different call centre teams to deal with people that were seeking a change to or refund for their flights. If, on the automatic talking machine on your phone, you pushed the button that said 'I want a credit', you were sent through to a team that was very well staffed, had a lot of resources and would deal with your issue promptly. If you pushed the button that said 'I want a refund' because you actually wanted your money back for a service that wasn't being provided, you got pushed through to a call centre that was massively understaffed and you'd be on the phone for hours. Apparently, Mr Joyce was boasting about this wonderful corporate strategy that he had invented to maximise the profits of Qantas and maximise the benefits of the taxpayer funding they had received, effectively defrauding Australian customers across the country.</para>
<para>There has to be a response to this kind of corporate conduct. This is a very reasonable and sensible response to that, and it should be supported.</para>
<para>Now, I also want to talk broadly here about the situation of airline policies in this country. Senator Sheldon apparently made the point—I wasn't here for it, but I've been told that he made it—that the government can't do this right now because they have to look at airline policy in the broad, and there's a green and white paper process underway at the moment, so they need to wait for that. How long has this been going on? Some aspects of airline policy, going back to the former government, have now been waiting years for a response.</para>
<para>The former government did have a pretty good excuse. Given what happened with COVID, it was pretty hard to make many major changes to airline policy while most of our country's airline fleet was grounded. Flights weren't in fact taking off, or at least not many, so it would've been inappropriate to make major changes to regulatory settings at that time. But it's been years now since the government received a report on the slots allocation policy at the Sydney airport. It is a major issue for our country. It's a major bottleneck for our country, in that most flights leave from or terminate at Sydney, the busiest airport in the country, and the allocation of space for airplanes at the Sydney airport has huge ramifications and knock-on effects for other travel right across the country, including for those that aren't travelling to or from Sydney, because it affects the whole network of planes across the country.</para>
<para>Those slots, as they're called—they're parking spaces, basically, for planes as they arrive and depart—are allocated through a very complicated procedure which gives precedence, effectively, to the incumbent users of those slots or their historical allocation over time. Almost invariably the majority of those slots go to Qantas and Virgin, the incumbent providers. A few go to some regional operators and others, but mostly they go to Qantas and Virgin. Those slots remain with those incumbent providers, provided they use them for a certain percentage of the time. If they use them for a certain percentage of the time, they get to keep these slots.</para>
<para>There is very credible evidence on this matter, which came to us during the cost-of-living inquiry and hearings, that especially Qantas, and possibly Virgin too, are effectively gaming the slot allocation system to make sure that they maintain their slots and that those slots are, therefore, not made available to potential competitors to their market position. Because of this issue, which has been a longstanding issue, the former minister for infrastructure, Michael McCormack, commissioned a review into it. That review reported back, I think, in 2021 or something of that nature. It was years ago now. As I said, at the time it was inappropriate to respond to that review or make decisions because of the COVID situation, but now that's long gone. We've been flying again now for a couple of years. We opened up two years ago almost to the day, and we're still waiting on the now minister for infrastructure, Minister King, to respond to this major issue. The response, of course, could have a negative impact on Qantas but a positive impact for Australian consumers. If they are gaming the system and putting up unnecessary barriers to competition, that is weakening the customer experience in the airline market and potentially making these cancelled flight issues a bigger, bigger deal.</para>
<para>The way that Qantas could be gaming this situation is by booking these slots for a flight ahead of time and selling customers the seats and all these things. Then, just beforehand, they could cancel the flight for a variety of reasons and excuses that they can come up with. That would still give them that quota. It would still make them reach that threshold to keep that slot. But, of course, the customers who have their flight cancelled pay an enormous price. Even if they get their money back, there's the cost of the disruption and their travel plans are cancelled, all so Qantas can maintain an incumbent position in the market.</para>
<para>The system should change. It has to change. Things are not working as intended. Yet this minister, Minister King, has been sitting on this report for the almost two years that she's been the minister. There's seemingly no action on this. As I said earlier, she seems to be running a protection racket for Qantas. She kept Qatar Airways out of this country with very little excuse or reason for it—sorry, there were lots of reasons and excuses; they just changed almost every day over a matter of months. There was no coherent explanation for why the minister refused to have more competition to Qantas in the international market, and now the minister seems to be protecting Qantas from more competition in the domestic market as well. That is what's leading to these poor customer outcomes, which are continuing to bedevil the market. Cancellations are continuing to be above their historical average. There are constant complaints of lost baggage and poor performance by the airlines. There clearly needs to be a response here to bring the airlines into line. And that's what this bill does. This bill provides reasonable protections for consumers to make sure that they get proper outcomes when they're flying around this country.</para>
<para>I want to finish by stressing how important this is for people across Australia. Obviously we're a very big landmass that is somewhat sparsely populated, especially between our major cities. That has meant that we don't have, in this country, the same type of rail or timely road networks that other countries might have. It takes a long time to travel by road between our major centres, and we don't have the fast rail type networks that you see in Europe or in North Asia. So, really, most people are left with the plane as the only option to travel long distances. A lot of people have to do this not just to go on a holiday but to receive medical treatment or to do business, and that is especially true for those of us who live in regional areas, where we have to travel to a major city to access a variety of services. Some of those services are life changing and life saving. People often have to travel to receive cancer treatment or other medical treatment on a regular basis. It's for chronic treatment, not just in the case of an emergency; sometimes people have to travel multiple times a year to manage their health issues.</para>
<para>Other people in the town where I am, in Rockhampton, have to travel for business. They have to go to places like Brisbane for major financial or legal services, which are simply not available in their local town. These services are essential for people's livelihoods and peace of mind, and the frustration that has emerged in the past few years through the cancellations, through the excessive prices and through the lack of customer service when things go wrong has added a level of stress to those in very difficult circumstances—they might be in poor health—and a level of cost for those who are just trying to go about their business in this country. So it's very important that we, as a nation, have efficient airline networks servicing our entire country and our sparse population. Those industries are not serving Australians well at this stage, and there clearly needs to be a response to make sure that we have efficient airline service right around this country.</para>
<para>This government does seem to be doing something—running this protection racket, which I've mentioned—and then sometimes just seems to be completely asleep at the wheel. We haven't heard from Minister King. I don't know where she is. She has just completely disappeared off the face of the earth—</para>
<para>An opposition senator: She's waiting for a flight!</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, she's at the airline lounge, waiting for a flight, perhaps! We don't know. Where has she been? As I said, she has got this major report on slot allocation in Sydney. We've heard no response from her. What the hell is going on? Now we have a government that's seemingly not taking up these commonsense ideas, instead saying, 'We're doing more reviews,' and it could be months and months before Australians receive any kind of relief or response.</para>
<para>Why don't we just get on with it and pass this bill? It's very, very simple. It would make the minister actually do something. This bill doesn't outline in detail what the requirements would be. I think that's appropriate for an overriding piece of legislation. All the bill says is that the minister must, within 12 months, come up with some of these rules to protect Australian consumers. At the very least, passing this bill might actually make the minister for infrastructure do something. That would be good because she'd have to, within 12 months, do something for a change. Right now, it's pretty hard to understand what the minister for infrastructure is doing apart from just running a protection racket for Qantas.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to put a scenario to the chamber. I want to provide a case study. Imagine that you live a 2½-hour drive away from your nearest airport. Imagine you get up very early in the morning. The sun's still not up; you beat the sun. You're on the way to the airport to meet your flight. You know you've got to check in half an hour before the flight, so you're on the road. And you get a ping on your phone about 100 kilometres down the road. Obviously, you can't pick up your phone, because you're driving, and that would be illegal, so you pull over and you check your phone, only to be notified that your flight has been delayed. You're already 100 kilometres away from home, and you've still got 150 kilometres left to go. But they're letting you know your flight's delayed. At least you don't have to speed!</para>
<para>You get to the airport. You're delayed. You sit around, twiddling your thumbs and waiting. Meanwhile, you've got a connecting flight. And, because you know the track record of some of our airlines, you've actually left maybe a good hour and a half between when your flight should have landed and when your connecting flight was going to take off. But this delay is closing that window rapidly, and you get another notification: your flight has been delayed again. Well, you can write off getting your connecting flight. So you have to get online, try and book another flight and potentially wear the penalties. And, because you're travelling from a regional area, you're travelling different airlines. The first flight is a different airline to the second flight. There's no recognition or compensation that your need to change flights has been caused by an airline's delay. So you've now written off a whole day because of a flight delay.</para>
<para>That would be the reality for me every time I want to come to parliament if I chose not to drive. But, because I cannot rely on airlines, because the standard operating procedure for many airlines nowadays is to just delay flights, because the percentage of flights being delayed by the airlines is increasing, I can't afford to risk using the airlines to get me to Canberra. So I drive. It is faster. It's more efficient for me to drive. But the impact for regional people of the practices of the airlines to delay or cancel flights is significant.</para>
<para>I know people who live in Broken Hill and who have to fly to Sydney for specialist treatment. They end up booking flights for the day before their appointments just to be sure they are going to be in Sydney for their appointments. That increases their costs because now they have to pay for an extra night's accommodation. They pay for the flights, which are horrendously expensive when we're talking about regional flights, they pay for an extra night's accommodation, they see the specialist and then they hope that they can get back home that day—otherwise, they are faced with the expense of another night's accommodation. That is the reality for people living in the regions right across this country. When we can't rely on our airlines to depart on time and when that leads to increased costs for regional Australians who just want to look after their own health. It is a very sad state of affairs. When you purchase a plane ticket, the plane is meant to leave on time and arrive on time and your baggage is meant to arrive with you. Is that too much to ask?</para>
<para>Let me be clear: we all know that sometimes there are circumstances which require delays, and that is fair and reasonable. If there are weather concerns, it's fair and reasonable. If there are safety concerns, it is fair and reasonable. But if it's just because the airline has decided they didn't get quite enough bookings for the first flight of the day so they're going to bump everybody to the second flight of the day, that is not fair and reasonable. If it is just inconvenient for the airlines or if, as my colleague Senator Canavan said, they're selling tickets to book up the slots but then they want to consolidate the ticket sales so they cancel the slots, causing havoc to competition in the airline industry, then that's not fair and reasonable. And if it is because Airservices Australia have not looked into the future and determined how many people they actually need to run our airport services and therefore they haven't recruited and trained enough people, that's not fair and reasonable either, because that's not the fault of the flying consumer.</para>
<para>The aviation industry has gone backwards. Prior to COVID, if you booked an airline ticket, there was only a 1.5 per cent chance that your flight would be delayed. That could be considered fair and reasonable. In January 2024, 3.1 per cent of flights were cancelled, and the long-term average rate of cancellations has blown out. That's not fair and reasonable. What is going on? Why have we gone backwards from the pre-COVID era? Why are our airlines and, indeed, the minister not taking action? How can it be that, once upon a time, Qantas was one of our most trusted brands and was considered the airline to book because you knew you would leave on time and arrive on time, and now people are avoiding Qantas like the plague? When did we take our eye off the consumers and start focusing on the market giants?</para>
<para>This bill isn't a silver bullet—I admit that—but this bill will require action to be taken. This bill will put the focus back on the consumers. It will prioritise the consumers. It will actually make the airlines accountable. They will have to justify what is a fair and reasonable delay or cancellation. Many people don't realise that there is no code of conduct in the aviation industry even though there have been ongoing concerns raised and a call by the ACCC and other consumer advocacy groups to develop a code of conduct for the aviation industry. We need a code of conduct so that we don't have inconsistent fare types, so the experiences of third-party purchases of airfares can be highlighted and to ensure fair and proper treatment of passengers so that passengers get to where they're going when they need to get there and with their baggage.</para>
<para>Just this week one of my colleagues arrived here in Canberra only to find that their baggage had been lost in transit. They came in in very amusing mismatched attire because their baggage had been lost. What was the response of the airline? 'Eh, we might find it. We'll let you know when we might find it. We don't know how many days you might have to walk around in the same socks and jocks, but we will find it eventually.' That's not good enough.</para>
<para>You arrive at the airport with your bag half an hour beforehand because that's what you are required to do. You check in your bag. It's tagged. You watch it go down into the belly of the airport and you expect it to get on the plane with you—the same plane that you're getting on. You've got your barcoded boarding pass and the barcoded ticket that went on your suitcase. You should be getting on the same plane. How is it then possible that, when you land, there's no sign of your baggage in this day and age, when you just should be able to point your little laser at the barcode and you should know where it goes? It is absolutely ridiculous that we are still losing baggage in this day and age. It is not fair, again, particularly to regional passengers that we can't be guaranteed that we're going to land on time with all our bags.</para>
<para>This bill will establish minimum standards. It's not too much to ask. They will be minimum standards for the treatment of passengers to experience delays, cancellation or sometimes a denial of boarding—minimum standards to ensure that passengers are provided with the essential amenities needed such as food, water and accommodation during such disruptions. That is what is required.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>12</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>12</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the following bills, allowing them to be considered during this period of sittings:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill (No. 3) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation Bill (No. 4) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 2) 2023-2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Autonomous Sanctions Amendment Bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Broadcasting Services Amendment (Community Television) Bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Competition and Consumer Amendment (Fair Go for Consumers and Small Business) Bill 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Social Services Legislation Amendment (Child Support and Family Assistance Technical Amendments) Bill 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>12</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>12</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7106" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>12</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023 makes improvements to the National Redress Scheme, which commenced on 1 July 2018. The scheme was established in response to recommendations from the Royal Commission into Industrial Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. It is set to run for 10 years. To be eligible for redress, the abuse must have occurred before 1 July 2018. The act that established the redress scheme requires a review of the operation of the scheme after its second anniversary and also after its eighth anniversary. At the moment, we are halfway through the operation of the scheme and we are still finding ways to make the scheme better. I think that is a really good thing. I have said it before and I will say it again: I am in this place to make things better for people. No law is perfect, and it likely never will be, but, if we can do what we can to make improvements when we've been told that we should, I think that's a day's work well done.</para>
<para>No changes that we make in this place can undo the terrible abuse of children at the hands of institutions that were supposed to protect them. A local victim-survivor in Launceston—I will call him 'John'—shared some thoughts on the scheme that he said I could share in this chamber. John said, 'No amount of money can ever compensate a person for a lost childhood, but these relatively small payments can make a difference for those struggling to make ends meet.'</para>
<para>Child sexual abuse robs a person so much of their potential, including the ability to get, secure and maintain employment. Too often victims-survivors struggle to get the support services they need. John said the Redress Scheme is an unfortunate necessity and it is the nation's shame that it is a necessity. I agree with John. I'm sorry for the childhoods that were robbed. I'm sorry for the way our most trusted institutions betrayed these children and their families. I'm sorry that nothing that we do in this place can repair the lives lost and the pain that victims-survivors and their families suffered and continue to suffer. My hope is that in this place we can make things a little better for people who were abused as children. The reason there are reviews into the operation of the scheme is so that improvements can be made periodically when necessary. That is what this bill does in response to the final report of the second year of the National Redress Scheme.</para>
<para>The review took place between July 2020 and March 2021. It involved meetings with survivors, support services, government agencies and ministers. The review also received submissions. The independent reviewer delivered her report in 2021. That report contained 38 recommendations. The government provided a final response to the report in 2023, supporting the vast majority of the recommendations. The government then drafted this bill in consultation with the Ministers' Redress Scheme Governance Board, comprising Commonwealth, state and territory ministers responsible for redress. The board has agreed to the changes to the act contained in the bill. I know that the independent reviewer and the department have put a lot of hard work into improvements to the Redress Scheme.</para>
<para>It is important to note the implementation of the Redress Scheme is overseen by the Joint Standing Committee on Implementation of the National Redress Scheme. There has and continues to be a lot of consultation, and in my opinion that is a great thing. I understand the changes to the scheme and its operation made by this bill are not going to satisfy all victims and survivors. John, the victim-survivor I spoke about earlier, had some suggestions for improvement of the Redress Scheme. One suggestion was to allow for recipients of financial redress to also seek further financial redress through civil actions. I see why John wants further improvements to be made. The maximum compensation of $150,000 falls well short of what some people would get if they went through the court system and were successful. But this is not what the royal commission recommended. In fact, the royal commission recommended that the making of a monetary payment through the Redress Scheme should require an applicant to release the scheme, including the contributing government or governments and the institution, from any further liability for institutional child sexual abuse, by executing a deed of release.</para>
<para>I also know that many people don't want to spend years of their life in court. They just want to move past that chapter of their life. They don't want to have to interact with the institution that was responsible for the harm they suffered. The Redress Scheme ensures that applicants will not need to deal directly with the institution in which they were abused. Another suggestion from John was that the Redress Scheme recipients should expect that a finding in their favour could automatically trigger an institutional investigation into the named abuser. At present the scheme does share what is called 'protected information', including sending reports to the relevant law enforcement authorities for child safety purposes. The bill makes further amendments that authorise an institution to disclose this protected information for the purposes of an internal investigation or disciplinary proceeding. It will always be hard to strike the right balance with legislation like this. But what I hope people will take from the passage of this bill and the work of the Joint Standing Committee on Implementation of the National Redress Scheme is the commitment of this parliament and governments across Australia to create a trauma informed, equitable and balanced redress scheme.</para>
<para>We know that there is always room for improvement. Like I said earlier, there are processes in place for further review of the operation of this scheme and for further improvement. That's why I support this bill. In doing so, I acknowledge and thank victim-survivors like John for their courage in continuing to share their stories and thoughts on improving the Redress Scheme.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The National Redress Scheme was recommended by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. It was set up to acknowledge the harm done to people who experienced child sexual abuse while in so-called care. The scheme, in many ways, operates as an acknowledgement of the truth of the abuse of children within Australian institutions—in churches, in schools, in hospitals, in prisons and more. It is an attempt to respond to the failure of the Commonwealth and other government and non-government institutions in upholding human rights obligations, including the right of every child to protection by society and the state, and the right of every child to protection from all forms of physical and mental violence, injury or abuse, including sexual exploitation and abuse.</para>
<para>However, there are deep flaws in the scheme and the government, at this point, has not prioritised the proper funding or administration of the scheme, despite knowing how difficult and hard it is to navigate. The application process is hard, complex and traumatising. There are different schemes in every jurisdiction, making it even harder. The wait times to process an application are, on average, 11.8 months. The amount the Redress Scheme offers is way less than you could claim in a court, with the average payment being around $88,000. And accepting a redress offer forces you to give up all rights to make a future claim in court.</para>
<para>The Redress Scheme is supposed to be a more accessible and safer avenue for compensation compared to the long, expensive, traumatising court process. Help and support is supposed to be available to those putting in applications. However, without changes the Redress Scheme will reflect the same problems as the court system—a long, traumatising process with little help along the way, less money for compensation and it lets those who committed the abuse off the hook for future court proceedings. Ultimately, there can never be actual redress for the pain and generational consequences that have been caused by the abuse that was suffered, and my thoughts are with all who had and who continue to have to endure this.</para>
<para>It is also important to point out the large proportion of the applications to the scheme are likely to be members of the stolen generation's survivors. We have already lost too many who will never ever see any justice. The stolen generations are a result of the genocide in this country, which continues to this day as First Nations children are taken from our families at alarming and increasing rates and extremely disproportionately to what is happening to non-First Nations children.</para>
<para>The impacts of intergenerational trauma from past and ongoing government policies of forced removals are well known, evidenced and documented. The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare has reported on the poorer health, social and emotional wellbeing and economic outcomes experienced by stolen generation survivors and their descendants. Their descendants are experiencing the exact same systemic abuse. There are currently over 25,000 First Nations children removed from their families—in 2024. First Nations children are 26 times more likely than their peers to be incarcerated. The Yoorrook Justice Commission in Victoria has found that First Nations children in Victoria are on a pipeline from out-of-home care to prison from before they are born. These are places that continue the abuse on our children rather than prevent or redress it.</para>
<para>This is what systemic racism looks like. This is what apartheid looks like. This is what genocide looks like. The practice of First Nations child removal in this country—under the Labor government, mind you—involves both systemic racial discrimination and genocide as defined by international law, and this is what the 1997 <inline font-style="italic">Bringing them home</inline> report found. It seems the government has learned nothing. While it spends millions on compensation for past abuse, it traumatises and abuses a whole new generation of First Peoples children at the same time.</para>
<para>In saying all of this, I do want to acknowledge the importance of the scheme, especially for those who it has helped. It is now in its sixth year of operation, and for survivors and their families the National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023 makes important changes which remove some of the barriers to applying. Importantly, this includes changes so that those who are currently being held in prison will be able to apply.</para>
<para>It is important to remember that prison is not a place for what you call 'bad people'—in fact, the people responsible for the worst atrocities and pain caused to others are most often not held to account. The reality is that there are more survivors of rape and sexual assault in prison than there are rapists themselves, and there is well-documented evidence on the overrepresentation of child abuse survivors in the prison population. And, horrifically, this country's prisons are, as you know, full of First Peoples who have been targeted by the racist police dogs their whole lives for nothing more than the colour of their skin. Our women are the most incarcerated population in the world. First Nations women are the most incarcerated women in the world, though our women have cared for and sustained the oldest living culture in the world and these beautiful lands for millennia.</para>
<para>While people in prison can now apply to the scheme, some people with some serious criminal convictions may still be barred from accessing redress. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights has pointed out that these restrictions could be in breach of the entitlement of survivors to claim redress and limit the right to an effective remedy. It is also against equality and nondiscrimination. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights also noted that victims of violations of human rights within Australia's jurisdiction are entitled to a remedy, irrespective of their residency or citizenship.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Thorpe. I have Senator Ayres on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ayres</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to confirm the language that was used before. I think Senator Thorpe will know what I'm referring to. I don't intend to repeat it, but I ask that you ask her to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Ayres. Senator Thorpe, I was having a conversation with the whips about where we're at in the program, but I would ask you to consider the language that you may have used that may have been unparliamentary, withdraw and then continue your remarks.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Should I continue?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I asked you to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I said 'police dogs'. I didn't say, 'Police are dogs.'</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for clarifying your comments. You can continue your remarks.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Our women are the most incarcerated women on the planet. I wonder why, after that interjection! Our women have cared for and sustained the oldest living culture on the planet, and we're still a target in this place when people think that we've said something that we haven't. I would have been locked up for that in the street.</para>
<para>While people in prison can now apply to the scheme, some people with some serious criminal convictions may still be barred from accessing redress. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights has pointed out that these restrictions could be in breach of the entitlement of survivors to claim redress and they limit the right to an effective remedy. They are also against equality and non-discrimination. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights also noted that victims of violations of human rights within Australia's jurisdiction are entitled to a remedy irrespective of their residency or citizenship status. People who have suffered horrific abuse deserve compensation.</para>
<para>My amendment would allow those non-citizens and non-permanent residents residing in Australia to have access to this scheme. It is critical that the government ensure access to the scheme and safety for survivors. The people applying to this scheme deserve to be supported through this process. Critical to this is ensuring proper funding for vital support services. Services on the ground are currently already flooded with demand, and applications only look to increase, putting further pressure on them. When some barriers to the scheme were removed previously, the case backlog almost doubled in 10 months.</para>
<para>Following the passing of this bill, increased pressures on the system and support services can be expected once again. To be effective and safe, this scheme must be delivered in a way that heals and avoids all risks of retraumatising survivors. This means large increases of funding to both the scheme itself and available support services. This funding of services is essential to ensure that those applying to the scheme are treated with respect, dignity and safety and to ensure the scheme avoids all risks of retraumatising survivors so that it can contribute to healing and justice. This includes increasing resourcing to stolen generations organisations and community controlled healing services; improving access to culturally appropriate and trauma-informed services and interventions; providing trauma-aware healing-informed training for all individuals working across the design and implementation of the scheme, including external organisations and consultants; and carefully regulating and monitoring non-First Nations organisations operating in the space to ensure that they meet quality, cultural and ethical standards. This must be ensured across jurisdictions, including in remote and regional areas where English might not be the first language. These issues are a priority.</para>
<para>My second reading amendment highlights some of these matters. I want the government to stop treating as an afterthought the harm they have caused and continue to inflict. I seek leave to move the second reading amendment standing in my name.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a large proportion of First People applicants to the National Redress Scheme are likely to be Stolen Generations Survivors, and to be effective and safe it is imperative the scheme:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) ensures access and safety throughout the process as a priority,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) be treated with the importance and integrity that survivors deserve, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) be delivered in a way that avoids all risks of re-traumatising survivors; and,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) fundamental to achieving these goals is ensuring appropriate support services receive proper, ongoing funding including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) increasing resourcing to ensure proper, ongoing funding to Stolen Generations organisations and First Nations community-controlled healing services,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) ensuring proper, ongoing funding for redress support services, to allow them to provide access to a suite of counselling services, including financial and legal,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) improving access to culturally appropriate and trauma-informed professionals, services and interventions,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) ensuring trauma-aware, healing-informed training for all individuals working across the design and implementation of the scheme, including external organisations and consultants, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) for non-Indigenous organisations operating in the space, providing careful regulation and monitoring to ensure that they meet the quality, cultural and ethical standards required of the scheme's operations; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the above must be ensured across jurisdictions, including in remote and regional areas where English might not be the first language; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) there is documented evidence that prisoners are more likely to have been victims of child sexual abuse compared with the general population; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights has pointed out that restrictions to redress for those with certain serious criminal convictions could be in breach of the entitlement of survivors to claim redress, limit the right to an effective remedy, and be in breach of notions of equality and non-discrimination.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by leave by Senator Thorpe be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:39] <br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Chandler)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>14</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. <br />Original question agreed to. <br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>16</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move opposition amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 2250 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, Part 2, page 7 (line 1) to page 9 (line 10), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 20, page 18 (lines 17 to 30), omit subsections 210(5) and (6).</para></quote>
<para>The reason the opposition is moving these amendments is to give the government the opportunity to have a rethink about a particularly extraordinary decision that they have made in relation to allowing people who have been charged with serious crimes to get expedited access to this scheme.</para>
<para>It's quite extraordinary that the government would seek to classify various serious offences into different categories. Basically, the government is saying that some crimes that are serious are not worthy of consideration, whereas other crimes are. That means, as we're standing here today, the government is saying to Australia that those who have committed crimes that would be eligible for this expedited process to access the Redress Scheme without having to go through the current special assessment process are crimes like extortion, distribution of child abuse material, possession and accessing of child abuse material, kidnapping, robbery, burglary, home invasion, car-jacking and the aggravation of those above crimes. The National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023 shows Labor is soft on crime. It shows their leniency on crime, benefiting individuals who have got serious criminal offences and convictions by offering them a fast-tracked approach to this scheme.</para>
<para>Under the government's legislation that's before us today, those who have received a custodial sentence of five years or more would be eligible to apply for redress without having to go through the current special assessment process—a process that was put in place when the scheme was established in the first place with very good reason. Under Labor's scheme, only those people who are sentenced to five years imprisonment or more for offences such as unlawful killing, sexual offences or terrorism would actually be required to go through the special assessment process. So the government's bill also allows those in jail to apply for redress without having to go through this particular provision. The coalition believes that the current process, which requires a special assessment process, is absolutely appropriate, and these current arrangements actually maintain the integrity and the public confidence in this scheme.</para>
<para>I think it is quite galling that there are people who will be serving custodial sentences for crimes on the list that I just read out a minute ago who will necessarily be given preferential treatment over others on a first-in basis. I'm quite shocked that the minister and the government don't agree that crimes such as unlawful killings, sexual offences, and terrorism are somehow not as equally serious in terms of things like distributing child abuse material, extortion, kidnap or robbery. We're talking about a group of very, very serious crimes. To be jailed for five years or more for one of these offences—we're talking about some pretty egregious conduct. These are evil, evil crimes, and we've got the Labor Party here saying, 'Let's open up the scheme to these people unfettered,' and, in the process, slow down the application for everybody else.</para>
<para>When you consider that one of the key criticisms of survivors is timely access to justice, we are putting in place with this legislation a sort of slowdown provision to enable people who have been convicted of some pretty serious crimes—I don't think anybody in this place or, I certainly hope, the government wouldn't think that some of the crimes that I have outlined are not very, very serious crimes—to get an expedited process. When some of the most serious criticisms of the scheme to date have been timely access to justice, compensation and restorative measures, it seems quite extraordinary that the government is continuing to go down this path.</para>
<para>The amendment that has been put forward by the opposition gives the government the opportunity to reconsider this, because we believe that it would reflect the integrity and the public confidence in the scheme and, at the same time, actually address one of the key criticisms of survivors. So I move the amendment in the opposition's name.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It might be helpful for people listening to this debate to indicate at the outset that the government won't support any amendments in Committee of the Whole. I just want to outline the rationale for that position and then deal with the amendments moved by Senator Ruston.</para>
<para>The redress scheme is, of course, a partnership between the Australian government and the governments of each of the states and territories. The measures in the bill have been agreed to by all of those scheme partners. New measures outside of that agreement would need to be agreed by all of the jurisdictions, which would hold up the passage of the existing measures and delay the benefit of the changes for survivors, many of whom are elderly. In addition, any changes without proper consideration and consultation would risk the ability or willingness of the institutions who have joined the scheme to stay in the scheme, or of additional institutions to join the scheme. The scheme is premised on institutions voluntarily joining and, in doing so, committing to pay for redress where they are found responsible for abuse. State and territory governments and the Australian government use all available levers to encourage institutions to join, but there is little we could do should institutions choose to walk away. Without the participation of the institutions, there would be no access to redress for many survivors.</para>
<para>In terms of the amendments moved by Senator Ruston, I might focus on the matter that relates to serious criminal convictions. As I understand it, the Liberal Party tried to move this amendment in the House, in addition. The special assessment process for people who have a serious criminal conviction was implemented to protect the integrity of the scheme. Now that the scheme is past the halfway mark, the experience to date has been that the vast majority, some 91 per cent, of people who go through this process are not prevented from accessing redress. This does suggest that the policy settings can be improved so as to not unnecessarily delay survivor outcomes. The bill does not remove the special assessment process; it simply refines the process based on the years of practical experience to date. The bill streamlines the process to only require people with the most serious of offences to undergo the special assessment process, as committed to in the Australian government's final response the second-year review of the National Redress Scheme.</para>
<para>I sought some advice while listening to Senator Ruston's speech on the amendment. I can inform the Senate that, at least for one of the offences she has outlined, you must reasonably infer that, for example—and only for example, not to the exclusion of the other offences—that the offence of distributing child sexual abuse material would require a person to go through the special assessment process. So it is not the case and it should not be claimed that serious offences of that nature are not dealt with appropriately by the bill.</para>
<para>Applicants who have been prevented from accessing the Redress Scheme to date under the existing provisions will still be prevented from doing so. Critically, the bill also includes the ability for the operator to require a person to undergo the special assessment process where there are exceptional circumstances outside of those listed offences, if the operator believes providing redress may affect the integrity of the scheme. That is an important safeguard. It means that, where there is a criminal conviction of five years or more, the operator can require the person to undergo the special assessment process, even if the person's offence is not on the prescribed list.</para>
<para>The current special assessment process will not change. The operator will still need to determine whether providing redress to a person with a serious criminal conviction for a single offence would negatively affect public confidence in the scheme. This process involves the operator asking for written advice from the attorneys-general or the specified adviser of the jurisdiction where the abuse occurred and where the person was sentenced. This change will see people who have committed the most serious offences continue to be prevented from accessing redress where the reputation of the scheme is at risk but not delay access to the scheme for most others, as they will no longer be required to undergo the special assessment process. These changes will not provide swifter access compared to other survivors. They will mean less delay for people who are not and should not be required to go through the special assessment process. This is in no way detrimental to access for all survivors. There has not been and there will not be as a consequence of these changes preferential or priority status afforded as a result of the passage of this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>These amendments from the coalition are shameful, utterly shameful. It's as though they have learnt nothing from the royal commission, which said that this parliament and governments across the country should be survivor focused, not protect the institutions that have abused survivors. Let's be clear about what the coalition is trying to do here. The coalition is trying to shield the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church and state and territory governments who ran state-run institutions from legitimate claims from survivors of child sexual abuse, running again the case for privileged institutions over survivors of child sexual abuse and, in doing so, ignoring all the evidence from the royal commission and the learnings we have had about ensuring that what we do is survivor and victim focused.</para>
<para>The Redress Scheme, as initially drafted, said that if anyone was in jail or if they'd had a sentence of five years or more they were excluded from the Redress Scheme unless they could show exceptional circumstances, in the latter case. As all of the evidence from the royal commission shows and as all of the evidence from survivors has shown, during the royal commission and in the years since, overwhelmingly, victims of child sexual abuse have seen their lives turned absolutely upside down. Yes, some survivors managed to get their life back on track and, despite the abuse, managed to succeed in careers and hold their families together. And that is an incredible testament to those survivors who kept their life on track and succeeded in this traditional measures. But for far too many survivors of sexual abuse that is not what happened to their lives. The abuse led to an ongoing response to that trauma. Many of them found themselves going into the juvenile justice system, then graduated from the juvenile justice system to the adult prison system, and have spent decades in jail. At the core of that was the abuse they suffered in the institution—sometimes repeated horrific abuse in an institution. When you look at the cohorts in our prison systems around the country, far too many of them have this history of childhood trauma and abuse.</para>
<para>What the coalition is trying to do with these amendments is punish them twice—punish these survivors of abuse whose life has been thrown into a downward spiral because of that sexual abuse from an institution. Whether it's the Catholic Church, the Anglican Church, the Scouts, a sporting organisation or a state or territory government, the abuse has thrown their life into a downward spiral and they've found themselves suffering the consequences of that and often decades of imprisonment. Nobody is saying that there should be a complete get-out-of-jail-free card for people's lives if they've been abused. They've been punished and held to account in the criminal justice system for their actions. What the coalition is trying to do is punish them twice and take away any right they have for even a modest amount of compensation for the abuse they suffered as a child in an institution which absolutely knew better and let that abuse happen.</para>
<para>When the coalition comes in here and moves this amendment and tries to make it a law-and-order attack on the government, which is finally doing something decent in this space, let's be clear who the coalition are speaking for. They're speaking for the institutions that abused these children, so they don't have to pay compensation. They're speaking for the Catholic Church that abused these kids and let these kids be abused, so the Catholic Church can keep their money and not see it go to survivors of abuse. They're speaking on behalf of the Anglican Church, Scouts, Girl Guides and sporting organisations that let these children be abused when they knew better. They covered it up, they buried the evidence and they hid the abuse, and who's backing those institutions in? The coalition. The coalition have learnt nothing from the royal commission. They still put powerful institutions before victims of child sexual abuse. They're still backing in the bishops and the cardinals and the CEOs and the abusers. That's what they're doing with the amendments.</para>
<para>The coalition should be shamed for what they're doing. Their backbench should look at what their minister is proposing in this and have a revolt and be ashamed of what the coalition is doing here. We had a royal commission into this, and the royal commission said, 'Put survivors before the institutions.' This is part of this rhetoric that the coalition now have to turn everything into a lowest-common-denominator law-and-order fight, that somehow the Labor government is being soft on law and order because they're allowing victims of historical child sexual abuse to get a small modicum of compensation. That's somehow Labor being soft on law and order. We're going to call that out. This is actually the government listening to the royal commission, looking at the evidence in the Redress Scheme and not sinking to this lowest-common-denominator grubby politics coming from the coalition, when nothing is too low for them. They will even weaponise compensation to victims of child sexual abuse in their law-and-order attack. They should be ashamed, and they should withdraw this amendment.</para>
<para>They should look at the evidence in the review report. The review report said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The restriction against prisoners applying was in part a response to concerns that confidentiality and access by support services would be difficult. However, given the Royal Commission report stated the evidence that people in jail are more likely than the general population to have been victims of child sexual abuse, the restriction on prisoners applying to the Scheme is perceived as unjust.</para></quote>
<para>That is very much an understatement of the situation. The review report, when it was looking at these restrictions, said they:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… constitute a significant bar discouraging applicants and deterring other potentially eligible applicants from applying.</para></quote>
<para>Yet the plan from the coalition is to actually put more hurdles in the way of survivors—perhaps the most vulnerable cohort of survivors—who have seen their life spin out of control and who haven't had the career and the jobs and the stability that we would hope that all kids would have. Why not? Because, at the core, they were abused by an institution that society trusted. We were wrong to trust those institutions, and we were wrong to prioritise those institutions over survivors. I thought we'd learnt that—but not this mob.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly can I say that I find the contribution that we just heard from Senator Shoebridge to be absolutely offensive. As the former minister with responsibility for the National Redress Scheme, I find what you say to be absolutely offensive. I absolutely acknowledge that, in my time as the minister, there was nothing more important than addressing the concerns of survivors and putting survivors at the absolute forefront of everything that we did and everything that I did as minister. To have Senator Shoebridge come in here and suggest that in any way, shape or form we would be seeking to protect institutions from paying their dues for the crimes that were committed against these people is extraordinarily offensive.</para>
<para>As I said, I was the minister at the time. I was the minister who named institutions that refused to sign up. I was the one who shamed those institutions, and I would do it again and again and again because I have always been on the side of survivors. So I think, Senator Shoebridge, that you should probably reflect on some of the things you said. Perhaps you should do a little bit more considering about what has transpired before now. I think that your response coming in here today is a reflection of your lack of understanding of what has actually gone on before.</para>
<para>As I said, I was the minister who was responsible.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It doesn't matter how much yelling comes from the other end of the chamber. I was the minister responsible, and I was absolutely proud that, every single day, every single decision that I made when it came to the National Redress Scheme was one that put survivors at the very centre. It was never the institutions. It never has been the institutions. I find the previous comments made by Senator Shoebridge to be tremendously offensive and directly targeted towards me. I think it reflects very badly on you, Senator Shoebridge, that you do not have the common decency to even acknowledge what I did as the minister, the entire time I was the minister, to put victims at the centre of this scheme as the primary priority. I'm sorry; this reflects badly on you.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hate to disabuse the senator, but this isn't about the senator. These issues in the scheme have been known for years and years, including when the senator was minister. What did the coalition government do? Absolutely nothing. I'm not going to be lectured on standing up for victims of child sexual abuse by a minister who sat for years in this portfolio and saw this injustice playing out and did nothing about it. And now that finally the Labor government, to their credit, are removing this injustice after years and years of the former coalition government just accepting it as the price of doing business to protect these institutions, I'm not going to stand here and be lectured to by a minister who did nothing on this issue.</para>
<para>I'll tell you who I credit for this parliament and the former government finally acting. I credit the brave survivors and the victims who came and told their truth to the royal commission. I credit the royal commission, which had a trauma-informed response, allowed that truth to be told to the nation and gave those institutions every skerrick of natural justice, and in doing that exposed them for what they were: bullies, deniers—institutions that were putting their assets and their wealth before the interests of victims and survivors. I credit the victims and survivors who finally got us to this point, not politicians in this place.</para>
<para>When we are debating this, it's not about what Minister X said or Minister Y said; it's about the truth on the ground to victims and survivors. And the truth on the ground to victims and survivors right now is that hundreds and thousands of victims and survivors—the most vulnerable cohort whose life has spun out of control and who find themselves in the criminal justice system—are being denied access to even a modest amount of compensation because of actions like the coalition's where they continue to put institutions ahead of those survivors. So, I'm not going to be lectured by some minister who did nothing on this for years. I'm going to listen to survivors and victims, and the Greens are going to listen to survivors and victims.</para>
<para>I'll say this: the government listened to survivors and victims, the review and the family, and they're responding with decency. What's not decent is the Dutton-esque attack using law-and-order politics against the government because they're actually being decent. That's what's offensive in this debate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the committee is that part 2 of schedule 1 stand as printed.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:11] <br />(The Chair—Senator McLachlan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that the proposed amendment (2) from the opposition has not been moved. In that case, I move amendment (1) on sheet 2258:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 15 (after line 17), after Part 4, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 4A — Civil proceedings after accepting offer of redress</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19A Section 43</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before "If", insert "(1)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19B Section 43</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "this section" (wherever occurring), substitute "this subsection".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19C At the end of section 43</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Civil proceedings after accepting offer of redress</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Paragraph (1)(b), as it relates to a person who has accepted an offer of redress, ceases to have effect by force of this subsection for the period of 12 months starting on the day this subsection commences if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the person accepted the offer of redress in the period starting on 1 June 2022 and ending on 1 November 2023; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) at the time the person accepted the offer of redress:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) an order (however described) made by a court was in force to permanently stay civil proceedings brought or continued against a released institution or official for abuse of the person that is within the scope of the scheme; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) there was a reasonable possibility that, if the person were to bring or continue such proceedings, a court would make such an order or an application for such an order would be made in relation to the proceedings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The following have effect by force of this subsection if, within the 12-month period mentioned in subsection (2), the person brings or continues civil proceedings (the <inline font-style="italic">post-acceptance proceedings</inline>) against a released institution or official for abuse of the person that is within the scope of the scheme:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the release and discharge mentioned in paragraph (1)(a), as it relates to the person and the post-acceptance proceedings (including any appeals), is taken not to have been made;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the 12-month period during which paragraph (1)(b) ceases to have effect in relation to the person is extended in relation to the post-acceptance proceedings until the end of the day on which those proceedings (including any appeals) are finally determined.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) An order made by a court, in relation to the post-acceptance proceedings, for the payment of compensation or damages for abuse of the person does not affect the person's entitlement to redress under the scheme, whether the order is made before or after one or more components of redress are provided to the person.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) A court may, in exercising its discretion in making an order for the payment of compensation or damages for abuse of the person in relation to the post-acceptance proceeding, have regard to any redress payment for the person under the scheme if doing so is just and reasonable in the circumstances.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment seeks to provide a window of opportunity for survivors and victims of institutional abuse who, following a particularly noxious decision of the Supreme Court in the matter of GLJ, agreed to a much smaller redress payment under the statutory scheme and, by doing so, created a bar for themselves for receiving common law damages.</para>
<para>On 1 June 2022, in a decision of the New South Wales Supreme Court in the matter of GLJ against just one of the many, in this case, Catholic institutions that had abused them, the Supreme Court ordered what was called a permanent stay against the survivor and did so on the basis that somehow, because the institution had destroyed its records and the abuser had died, which is a common thread in abuse claims, the institution can't have a fair trial. The court ordered what is called a permanent stay against the survivor and said to the survivor, 'You can never bring these proceedings, because the institution allegedly can't get a fair shake,' and it then actually ordered the survivor to pay the institution's costs. This was in circumstances where the abusive priest was notorious for abusing other kids. There is a raft of evidence about the abuse, and multiple claims had been made against the institution before. But the Supreme Court latched onto a comment that was made by the royal commission.</para>
<para>The royal commission was recommending removing time limits for victims of historic child sexual abuse and the bar to proceedings from time limits for victims of child sexual abuse, a recommendation which was inherently just, because we know that victims of child sexual abuse often take two or more decades before they can finally speak about the abuse that happened to them and, by that stage, the usual three-year time limit has well and truly expired. Prior to the royal commission, those extension-of-time applications had been used in a toxic matter by institutions and the legal system to deny justice to victims of historical child sexual abuse. The royal commission said that should not continue and recommended that all the states and territories and the Commonwealth change their laws and remove the bar to bringing proceedings against institutions for child sexual abuse based on the effluxion of time. They basically said, 'We know that there are decades of delay and the law is operating unfairly.'</para>
<para>But when the royal commission recommended that, they said: 'But, look: there's a reserve power in the courts to protect their jurisdictions in the most extreme case. If it's dreadfully unfair to an institution, they can issue what's called a permanent stay.' It was intended to be only breaking glass in case of fire—the most extreme case. What GLJ did with the decision of Supreme Court Justice Garling was not only breaking the glass but inviting institutions to come in and seek permanent stays against survivors. Once that decision was made in GLJ, institutions all across the country that had previously been dealing in good faith with survivors suddenly said: 'We're going to apply for a permanent stay. You can't win this case. Look at what Justice Garling said in GLJ.' Then a series of other permanent stays were made by the Supreme Court in New South Wales, and then it spread around the country. Around the country the GLJ decision was being used against survivors of abuse.</para>
<para>As it happened, I spoke to many of the survivors and victims and their lawyers and representatives in the months and year or so that followed. They were telling my office and anyone who listened that, whenever they went in with a claim seeking fair compensation for historic child sexual abuse, pretty much every institution said: 'We're going to apply for a permanent stay. You can't win this case. Look at what happened in GLJ. We're going to seek costs against you.' What victims and survivors did then, often on the basis of the legal advice they got, is they either signed up to a really small settlement, which in no way reflected fair damages, or withdrew their civil proceedings and instead went to the redress scheme and agreed to a much, much smaller payment—often 10 per cent or less than they would have got in a civil claim—and they agreed to a settlement and got a settlement and a payment under the redress scheme. They accepted a payment under the redress scheme.</para>
<para>Thankfully, in a decision that was handed down on 1 November 2023, the High Court overturned GLJ and said, 'That's not how the law is meant to operate.' It said that, for the survivor in GLJ, the permanent stay should never have been issued, the court got it wrong, and it really is only in the most exceptional circumstances involving historic child sexual abuse that a permanent stay should ever be granted and the rationale by the court in GLJ was plain wrong, and Justice Garling had got it dead wrong. As a result of that, GLJ's case can now continue after, of course, they were put through enormous stress and delay and huge legal costs by the institution. Now GLJ's case can proceed, but the problem is that, between when GLJ got handed down on 1 June 2022 and the High Court delivered its decision on 1 November 2023, hundreds of survivors accepted redress payments because their lawyers told them that they couldn't win their case because of the permanent stay claims. They've accepted a fraction of fair compensation.</para>
<para>This amendment says to any of the survivors who agreed to a redress payment in that period, between when GLJ was handed down and the High Court overturned it, that they can revisit that. If one of the reasons why they entered into the redress payment was the GLJ decision, they can apply to the court and have the bar lifted, and they can actually have their civil claim reinstated. It's entirely consistent with what the royal commission recommended for child sexual abuse survivors who'd had their claims dismissed because of extension-of-time applications. It's entirely consistent with what we did to deliver fairness when states and territories and the Commonwealth overturned decades of unfairness in the extension-of-time jurisdiction, and it is just so obviously fair to those survivors.</para>
<para>If this amendment is not agreed to, we're basically saying to hundreds of survivors: 'Well, the law was unfair. We know it was unfair. It operated unfairly for 18 months, and because of that unfairness you've received only a fraction of fair compensation, and we're just going to leave it at that.' Surely, we can't do that. Surely, we should say that if any survivor so radically compromised their claim and accepted a redress payment in that window—it's not open-ended; it's only in the window between when GLJ was handed down and when the High Court overturned it—for the next 12 months, not forever, they have a window where they can actually reverse that election and go back and get fair compensation in the civil courts. I would urge this chamber to seriously consider this amendment. I'd urge them to accept it and, again, put survivors ahead of the institutions.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I indicated at the outset, the government's position is a blanket view about amendments to the bill for the reasons that I set out earlier, and that is that, principally, amendments would require the agreement of the other partners in the process—that is, the states and territories. That is the first basis for the government's opposition to amendments to the legislation.</para>
<para>I do want to take the chamber to some of the issues that are enlivened by the amendment and Senator Shoebridge's contribution. This scheme, of course, is survivor focused. It is designed, in response to the royal commission, as an alternative to civil litigation for survivors of institutional child sexual abuse. It does have a lower evidentiary threshold than what is required in civil or criminal legal proceedings. What that means is, consistent with the recommendations of the royal commission, that awards under the scheme do release institutions from other proceedings. That principle is important to the overall operation of the scheme and to the agreement of the states and territories on the one hand, but also to the participation of institutions in this scheme, which is also a fundamental underpinning of the practical and effective operation of the scheme.</para>
<para>The scheme offers free, trauma-informed, culturally appropriate, expert legal support services to survivors so that they have the opportunity to understand the effect that accepting an offer of redress has on their civil legal rights. This means that survivors are able to make an informed choice as to whether they wish to accept the offer that is made to them and, in doing so, release the institution or institutions and their associates and officials—excluding, of course, the perpetrator—from civil liability for abuse within the scope of the scheme, or seek remedy through other avenues.</para>
<para>Voiding a class of civil releases is likely to endanger present and future institutional participation. It would significantly change the basis upon which institutions agree to join the scheme and could deter institutions from joining the scheme in the future. Without the participation of the institutions in the scheme, the scheme cannot progress applications and survivors can't continue to access redress. It's on that basis that the government has a blanket view in relation to amendments. It's also the basis upon which I've outlined that we oppose the motion moved by Senator Shoebridge.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that contribution. It's right in part, that the scheme is meant to be survivor focused. I agree with many of the things that Senator Thorpe said in her contribution today about some of the structural failings in the scheme. We should reflect on those because they're being identified repeatedly in the ongoing inquiry, which I'm a participant in, into the Redress Scheme. It's meant to be survivor focused, and it has provided substantial relief to many survivors. I think we should acknowledge that. But there are serious defects with how the scheme operates.</para>
<para>One of the serious defects is that it privileges institutions over survivors. There's an asymmetry of information in applications. The institution has all the information; the survivor gets almost none. The survivor gets an edited version of the determination, even, and doesn't really know the basis upon which the payment is made to them. That asymmetry is real, and it's not trauma informed.</para>
<para>And there's this constant threat by institutions that, if the scheme is tweaked to deliver any more fairness toward survivors, they'll just walk away. They'll just exit the scheme. We should not accept that from the institutions. We should collectively not accept that from the institutions—this bullying, threatening attitude from institutions that, if we even do the smallest tweak for fairness, they'll just walk away from the scheme. If they do that, we should come together as a nation and, if necessary, refer the power to hold them and bind them into the scheme. We should say clearly to them, 'We're not just going to let you walk away when we want to deliver a small snippet of fairness to survivors.'</para>
<para>But the idea that simply opening this short window to survivors would somehow see institutions walk away or see their position prejudiced is actually not true, because all of the institutions who join the scheme would have assumed that they would be making payments based upon the law as we understood it after the royal commission recommendations were implemented. GLJ was a bolt out of nowhere. It would not have featured in any of their costings or actuarial estimates. It was literally a bolt out of the blue that suddenly gave the institutions a potential windfall, obviously at the cost of survivors. So none of the assumptions that the organisations had about the cost of the scheme would have been informed by GLJ.</para>
<para>What this amendment seeks to do is just put us back to where we were before GLJ happened. It restores the status quo to 1 June 2022. That isn't a case of prejudicing the institutions at all; it's just restoring that fairer situation that happened before GLJ was decided and up until it was overturned. I will ask the minister, though: has the minister responsible for the scheme commenced discussions with the states and territories about the effect of GLJ? Has there been any communication or any efforts to seek to remedy this unfairness with any of the minister's state or territory colleagues?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that this matter has been discussed by the Commonwealth and state attorneys-general.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there a process in place as a result of those discussions to look at how the unfairness could be remedied, or is it something that the government has just shut the door on?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think all governments will be considering the implication of the matter that you've referred to but indeed other matters as they arise upon the operations of the scheme.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to be clear, Minister, is the matter of GLJ and its overturning and this period of some 18 months of unfairness still a live matter for discussions between the state, territory and Commonwealth ministers responsible?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. I want to be really clear: it has been discussed. These matters are always, of course, before the Commonwealth and the states and territories. I don't want to create an impression that there is a process—I'm not advised about that—but it has been the subject of discussion, and all of these matters will always be being considered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't mean for this to go on forever, but has it been discussed, and has there been a decision made not to proceed to remedy the unfairness for these survivors?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no decision of the kind that you've referred to, to my knowledge.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Greens amendment (1) on sheet 2258 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:39] <br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Sterle) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the request for amendment on sheet 2475 standing in my name:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the House of Representatives be requested to make the following amendment:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 15 (after line 17), after Part 4, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 4B — Expanded access to redress</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19D Section 4 (paragraph (e) of the paragraph beginning "To be entitled to redress")</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "or a permanent resident", substitute ", a permanent resident or currently resides in Australia".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19E Section 11 (paragraph beginning "Then the person must")</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "or a permanent resident", substitute ", a permanent resident or currently resides in Australia".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19F Paragraph 13(1)(e)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the paragraph, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the person is an Australian citizen or a permanent resident (within the meaning of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Citizenship Act 2007</inline>), or a person who currently resides in Australia, at the time the person applies for redress.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2475-EM</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Amendment Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">(Request for an amendment to be moved by Senator Thorpe, in committee of the whole)</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement pursuant to the order of.the Senate of 26 June 2000</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1) is framed as a request because it amends the bill to expand the eligibility criteria for redress payable under the <inline font-style="italic">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline>. The effect of the amendment is to extend eligibility to persons who currently reside in Australia at the time they apply for redress, even if they are not an Australian citizen or a permanent resident.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the amendment is intended to increase the number of individuals that would be eligible to receive a redress payment, the amendment is likely to increase the expenditure under the standing appropriation in section 161 of the <inline font-style="italic">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Statement by the Clerk of the Senate pursuant   .to the order of the Senate of 26 June 2000</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendment (1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the effect of the amendment is to increase expenditure under the standing appropriation in section 161 of the<inline font-style="italic"> National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline> then it is in accordance with the precedents of the Senate that the amendment be moved as a request.</para></quote>
<para>This requested amendment would allow noncitizens and non-permanent residents residing in Australia to have access to the scheme. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights has noted that victims of violations of human rights within Australia's jurisdiction are entitled to a remedy irrespective of their residency or citizenship status.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to indicate the Greens' support for Senator Thorpe's request for amendment. The idea that we would permit a scheme to operate where a child can be abused in an Australian institution, on shore in Australia, but, no matter how horrific or longstanding the abuse and no matter the circumstances, unless they are a citizen or permanent resident they cannot seek compensation under the Redress Scheme for that abuse is something that, surely, all of us should reflect upon and think is deeply unfair. The effect of Senator Thorpe's requested amendment, which we support, is to say that, if you're a child and you've been abused in an Australian run institution in Australia, regardless of your nationality, your citizenship or your immigration status, you should have a right to apply to the Redress Scheme for fair compensation. That's a pretty fundamental principle that the Greens support and, for those reasons, we endorse the request.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate the government's position in relation to that again and add at the beginning our blanket approach. In relation to the merits of this particular proposition, the government does not support the request for amendment. The scheme's eligibility criteria include that a person is an Australian citizen or permanent resident at the time that they apply for redress. The government, in conjunction with all of the state and territory governments as partners in the scheme, considered this eligibility criterion in response to the second-year review of the scheme. As a result of that consideration, which went into quite some detail, and with the agreement of each of the state and territory governments, the government has amended the National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Rules 2018 to enable former child migrants who are not Australian citizens or permanent residents to apply to the scheme. So that change has been made as a result of that detailed consideration following the second-year review of the scheme.</para>
<para>Former child migrants are a group of survivors known to be affected by the citizenship and residency criteria, and that change enables access to redress for that group of survivors who experienced institutional child sexual abuse in Australia and helps to hold the relevant institutions to account. All of the governments have agreed to further consider other noncitizen and non-permanent-resident groups, but we're not in a position to make any expansion to the scheme's eligibility criteria in relation to this bill without further consideration and agreement from all of the jurisdictions who are partners in the scheme.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Senator Thorpe's request (1) on sheet 2475 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:49]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Sterle)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 2212 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 47 (after line 10), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 — Other amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">National Redress Scheme for Institutional Child Sexual Abuse Act 2018</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Section 6 (after the definition of <inline font-style="italic">sexual abuse</inline> )</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: See also section 6A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After section 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6A Sexual abuse includes virginity testing</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To avoid doubt, sexual abuse includes the examination of female genitalia, with or without consent, for the purpose (or purported purpose) of determining virginity.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments address a problem that you'd hope the scheme would never have created for itself. These amendments provide that, to avoid doubt, sexual abuse includes the examination of female genitalia, with or without consent, for the purpose or purported purpose of determining virginity. I read onto the record a submission that was given to the redress committee by a woman who's now in her late 60s or early 70s who, as a ward of the state, was repeatedly virginity tested at the direction of the institution when she was a kid. She was insulted, she was abused, she was assaulted during those repeated tests, and, when she brought her redress claim for the sexual assaults that happened to her, her redress claim was denied on the basis that it was a medical procedure and not sexual assault. Because it was directed by a doctor, it was a medical procedure and not assault.</para>
<para>I still remember the kind of sickening feeling that I got when I first read that. This woman, after suffering that as a kid—the shame and the torment and the abuse that she'd had—finally had the courage to come and bring the claim. She brought the claim, with the assistance of CLAN—again, I want to record my ongoing gratitude to people like Leonie Sheedy and others at CLAN who support these women—and then had it denied in those circumstances. She said that it was like being abused all over again. She was retraumatised. I still remember reading it for the first time and then hearing from not just her but others who had had this happen to them, and I can't believe we would let that continue. In 2024, I can't believe we'd let that continue. This amendment says that that can't ever happen again. It says that, for the purposes of the scheme, virginity testing is abuse; it's sexual abuse. Indeed, it's nothing novel to the common law world. The UK has passed a law that says virginity testing is a crime—full stop. It's a crime in the UK because there's never a legitimate basis for virginity testing.</para>
<para>I recall, when it was raised in the committee, that I was then contacted by Reverend Bill Crews. If people don't know Reverend Bill Crews, he runs the Rev. Bill Crews Foundation. He's an institution of decency in Sydney, based in the inner west and now reaching out across all of Sydney. He's saved so many kids, and the institution has saved so many kids and provided so much support for homeless people. I regard him as a friend and an institution of decency in my home city. Bill contacted me and said, 'David, I was on the streets of Kings Cross when I first heard about this, and we knew it was wrong then, in the late sixties and early seventies.' So I invited Bill—and I want to credit the chair of the redress committee, who also invited Bill—to give evidence to the redress committee about what he'd heard and what he knew about this. With your indulgence, I'll read what Bill said to the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In 1971 I was a research engineer at AWA MicroElectronics … Through a series of events, I ended up being involved in the Wayside Chapel at Kings Cross, particularly as a volunteer, and then later on becoming employed by them. One of the things that stuck out to me was the number of homeless, runaway and abandoned children at risk on the streets of Kings Cross. Later research I did showed that the two places where kids in trouble went, or headed for, were Kings Cross and the Gold Coast. The stories that I heard and that I was talking with kids about were just horrific, and it was wrong then! I couldn't believe how people would allow these things to go on.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There were stories kids would tell me of being raped in institutions or of being adopted and the adoptions failing and then going back into so-called care and being abused in the care. One of the stories that really got to me was of a young girl I'd talk with a lot—I've got an apology from DoCS on the wall here. She used to run away from the institution she was in. She was a young Aboriginal girl and she used to rub her skin against the bricks, hoping it would turn white so that they wouldn't have to rape her anymore. I'd find kids who had been adopted and given back to the institution and then run away from the institution. It was just appalling. It was like, 'My God!'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Then I began to hear about these young girls. They were telling me they had to undergo these virginity tests, and I said, 'What?' They were explaining that often it was done without any gloves or anything. It was just done. I used to talk a fair bit to Bill Langshaw, who was the head of child welfare at the time, and he said 'Look, we are setting up a child welfare review committee. How about you go on it?' Oh, dear! It brings me to tears. The first meeting of the committee was run by this Roman Catholic priest. The meeting started and he said, 'I haven't been in an institution for 44 years and that makes me eminently suitable to run this thing.' I got up and I talked about the fact that these virginity tests were being done and there was no need for them. Of course, they said, 'Oh, no. We have to do that.'</para></quote>
<para>Reverend Crews went on and dealt with some of what happens in detail. He then said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There were many practices in that time around children that were wrong then and are wrong now. I think it was because I came into it with no prior background and, coming from a call it a normal home, it was just obvious that it was all wrong, and I began to make a fuss. I found that the child welfare workers or whatever—I just didn't have anything to do with them in the end. There were all these sorts of practices. I came across all these young girls …</para></quote>
<para>His evidence continued, and I ask members to read it.</para>
<para>What I say is this: anybody who was decent knew this was wrong when it was happening. They knew it was wrong. Bill Crews came to it and saw it for the first time as a young man, and, when they told him they were doing it, he knew it was wrong. He raised it with the authorities at the time, and he was shut down by the state committee responsible for dealing with it because it was chaired by a Catholic priest who just wanted it to go on. The insults that these young girls faced—they were called some of the most appalling names. Now they're being denied redress.</para>
<para>For those reasons we move these amendments, and for those reasons we ask that, regardless of what the institutions say about wanting to walk away from the scheme, and regardless of what else is said about how complicated or hard it is—this is not complicated—you just fix the injustice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government won't be supporting this amendment, and I think it's important to carefully set out the basis upon which the government does not support the amendment. Consistent with the recommendations of the royal commission, the scheme's legislation defines sexual abuse:</para>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">sexual abuse</inline> of a person who is a child includes any act which exposes the person to, or involves the person in, sexual processes beyond the person's understanding or contrary to accepted community standards.</para></quote>
<para>That is the definition for the purpose of the operation of the scheme. Of course, the course of conduct that Senator Shoebridge has outlined is—I'm not sure that there are the correct words to describe that course of conduct. It is open of course to the states and territories. Senator Shoebridge referred to the United Kingdom, in its criminal code, providing for a specific reference to this behaviour, so-called virginity testing, as having a special callout and treatment under the criminal law. That is open to the jurisdictions that deal with those kinds of offences in Australia.</para>
<para>But the bill in front of the chamber now is to deal with the operations of the scheme itself. Applications are assessed by independent decision-makers on a case-by-case basis, informed by the definition that I set out just a moment ago. They are considered by those independent decision-makers on a case-by-case basis once the relevant information from both the applicant and the institution is considered. The scheme cannot direct an independent decision-maker to find that an application is eligible.</para>
<para>Importantly, legislating that one category of abuse is automatically considered to be within the definition of sexual abuse fundamentally changes the basis upon which the whole scheme is designed, and it undermines the scheme's current administrative decision-making basis. It would effectively establish a hierarchy of survivors and send a message that one identified subgroup of survivors should receive preferential treatment or different treatment. This would set a precedent, and other survivor groups could be expected to call for similar treatment. Where a person's account of events falls within the description of sexual abuse under the redress act—I listened carefully to Senator Shoebridge's contribution—it is open to an independent decision-maker to determine the abuse as sexual abuse and, where all of the other criteria are met, make an offer of redress for that abuse.</para>
<para>With specific reference to intrusive internal examinations, the scheme provides guidance to independent decision-makers to support such a decision where a purported medical procedure was involved. This guidance was updated in response to a recommendation of the second-anniversary review.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that explanation. I'll note a couple of things. This amendment by no means fundamentally changes the definition; the broad definition remains as set out. What it simply does is say, 'Within the broad definition, let's have no doubt that virginity testing amounts to abuse.' It in no way undermines or limits that broad definition; indeed, it supports it. When the minister says that there will be different treatment for this class of survivors—Minister, there already is different treatment for this class of survivors, and the different treatment they're facing is having their claims denied, and in circumstances that I think all of us would agree are fundamentally wrong. And so I ask the minister: does the government have a view as to whether or not virginity testing was then and is now in breach of accepted community standards?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no question that the behaviour that you have described conducted by an institution is utterly contrary to acceptable community standards. It is utterly horrifying.</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At any time.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the committee is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 2212 as moved by Senator Shoebridge be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:10] <br />(The Chair—Senator McLachlan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>23</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. <br />Bill agreed to.<br />Bill reported without amendments; report adopted. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>28</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>28</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Labor Government</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Transportation is critical to all of us. Our transport workers and freight operators bring food to our tables, medicines to our chemists and our exports to the global markets. It heartens me that we still live in a country that celebrates hard work and the great achievements of the transport industry and their support for Labor's transport standards reforms.</para>
<para>Industry leaders from the Transport Workers Union, small businesses and employer associations have come together to fight against workplace fatalities and the race to the bottom that is placing unrealistic expectations on our essential transport workers. I congratulate these organisations. When you bring unions, businesses, and owners and operators together you have to be on the right track, and I congratulate each and every organisation on their hard work in finding a common cause to improve the productivity and safety of their sector.</para>
<para>When the transport industry came to Canberra last month, we heard personal stories from a sector under fire. Both owner and employee truck drivers passionately discussed how eroding conditions are putting lives at risk. And when they put their lives at risk that means that other people on the roads—our families, our friends, our children—are also at risk on those roads. The high demands for faster and cheaper freight have led to rampant safety violations, undercutting and an unsustainable pressure on truck drivers. Without adequate standards, intense competition is pushing freight-cut companies to the brink. At the same time, transport operators trying to do the right thing are finding it harder to compete.</para>
<para>Over the last two years alone, 100—100!—truck drivers have died on Australian roads, making transport one of Australia's most dangerous industries to work in. We heard from Bradley, an owner-driver who has worked in the field for a decade. Bradley, and drivers like him, are under threat as unscrupulous operators fail to adhere to minimum standards. He's concerned that pay and conditions could be slashed as good companies are forced to compete on an unequal playing field, leading to less pay, more stress on workers and roads that are far less safe.</para>
<para>We also heard from gig economy drivers who talked about the danger and uncertainties they face at work. A majority of transport gig workers make less than minimum wage. They make less than minimum wage in this cost-of-living crisis while facing abuse and the threat of being fired at any time for not accepting enough work or for not meeting delivery deadlines. So the pressure they have to work under every day adds to that burden of unsafety on our roads. The pressure to deliver faster and faster regardless of the road conditions have claimed more than 15 lives over the last two years. When injury or death occur, gig workers and their families often have nowhere to turn. Joanne has worked as a taxi and a rideshare driver for more than 17 years. She saw how industry standards have declined as taxi services were replaced by cheaper, more demanding and less certain rideshare work.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is ready to meet these challenges. Through the closing-the-loophole act passed this year, Labor is putting the full force of the law behind better conditions for transport workers, because better conditions for transport workers leads to better and safer roads for all of us to travel on. Labor's reforms come after three years of listening to and working with the industry. It comes after the former coalition government abolished the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal without any plan on how to replace it. It follows the workplace relations minister's industry roundtable last year, which brought together major transport operators and clients, employee associations, workers and policy experts. By giving the Fair Work Commission the power to set binding standards in transport, Labor's new law will help create safer roads, better working conditions and a more sustainable commercial environment.</para>
<para>Labor's transport standards reforms will not only assist transport workers, but also keep Australians safer on our roads, which is a good thing for all users. There have been over 370 truck crash deaths over the last two years. We know that one road fatality is one too many. By ensuring truck drivers are able to rest by stopping this race to the bottom in terms of their work, pay and conditions and being forced with unreasonable time frames, those things will be addressed through this legislation. Labor is taking action to make Australian roads safer, as I said, for everyone. In my home state of Tasmania, Labor's transport reforms will help create safer and better jobs. Thousands of Tasmanian workers serve their community as truck drivers or transport gig workers—thousands of men and women who deserve safe and respectful working conditions. These Tasmanian workers will now be better off thanks to Labor raising the bar.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is addressing the cost of living with a tranche of policies to help all Australians adjust to these new economic circumstances. On Monday we passed through this place important improvements to paid parental leave. This means everything to families. It helps them to juggle work and caring responsibilities with greater ease. The expansion to 26 weeks is the largest investment in this scheme since it was introduced in 2011 by another Labor government. Crucially, this investment will increase support for both birth parents and partners. Up to 22 weeks of leave will be available for one parent, which is up from 18 weeks, with four weeks reserved for the other parent, which is up from two weeks. A single parent can access the full entitlement, which is great news for single mums—or single dads—across the country. We all know that women lose out financially where caring responsibilities are concerned. We're acting decisively to level the playing field and help women across the country. As well as increasing the reserve period to encourage shared care, which is critical for women's economic equality, these changes give families more flexibility by doubling the period parents can take concurrently from two to four weeks. Expanding paid parental leave to 26 weeks also complements the government's plan, announced earlier this month, to pay superannuation on paid parental leave from 1 July 2025. This is all part of the Albanese Labor government's agenda to create a better and fairer society.</para>
<para>We haven't stopped there. When we first came into government, we increased the minimum wage. Wages are moving again in Australia, with 250,000 aged-care workers receiving a 14 per cent increase in their take-home pay. I'm proud to be part of a government that is taking a holistic approach to the cost of living and improving people's lives with its policies: tax cuts for all taxpayers, fee-free TAFE, cheaper child care, cheaper medicines, 60-day dispensing of medicines and more generous paid parental leave. We have tripled the bulk-billing incentive, which means doctors are bulk-billing more than they have before. We've invested in urgent care clinics, taking pressure off emergency departments. Just last week, I joined the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Mark Butler, at the Launceston urgent care clinic, where we met with the medical administration team and the doctors that are there in Launceston. Wow, are they doing it well! The doctors that we spoke to love being there. They've had no problem at all recruiting doctors to the urgent care clinic, because what they're able to do, they say, is to treat the patient holistically while they're there. At the same time they're able to bounce off other colleagues, which gives a better outcome for all of those patients that have thus far used those services. They do intend to expand further. They're in the process of building new premises. They have invested, along with the federal government, in northern Tasmanians' health to get better outcomes.</para>
<para>Since the clinic in Launceston opened, 8,700 people have gone through that urgent care clinic, and all they needed was their Medicare card—not their credit card—saving them crucial money to help deal with the cost of living that we're all experiencing. I can assure you, and those listening, that the Albanese government will not stop addressing the cost-of-living challenges facing our country. We want a better and a fairer society. We want equality, and we want to assist Australians where we can to deal with the cost-of-living crisis.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians, what have we done? After dedicating $13 billion, after recovering more than four Sydney Harbour's worth of water in the name of the environment—on top of three Sydney Harbours already recovered prior to the plan—after employing hundreds of new bureaucrats to manage those Sydney Harbours and to model, and after contracting the equivalent number of academics to monitor, clearly we have completely failed the Murray-Darling Basin. At least that is the conclusion you have to draw if you see the government's latest Murray-Darling Basin propaganda ads, which say, boom, boom, boom:</para>
<quote><para class="block">But water's being overused and the next drought is only a matter of time. We have to make sure there's enough water, otherwise the rivers may run dry.</para></quote>
<para>The ad goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If we don't act, it could threaten our iconic Aussie plants and animals, our food supply and affect the drinking water of more than 3 million Australians.</para></quote>
<para>Goodness me, it makes me panic. I am really scared and worried about what the next drought means, but then I think, 'Hang on, in the millennium drought, before the Basin Plan, before we recovered 2,100 gigalitres of water under the Basin Plan, we didn't run out of water and we didn't run out of drinking water.' Okay, Adelaide turned on their desal plant for the first time ever, I think. No, they built the desal plant but they didn't run out of drinking water. We didn't run out of food in the millennium drought before the Basin Plan.</para>
<para>If we were so successful at managing our water then, and since then we've spent $13 billion and recovered four Sydney Harbour's worth of water, what are we doing wrong now? Why are we going to run out of drinking water in the next drought? Don't just believe me about how we managed the basin in the millennium drought. At the time, an international expert in environmental engineering, the late John Briscoe of Harvard University, who was appointed by the government to the high-level review panel to review the guide to the Basin Plan and the Water Act, wrote in 2011:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Over the last 10 years—</para></quote>
<para>which was the period that covered the millennium drought—</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australia did something which no other country could conceivably have managed—in a large irrigated agricultural economy (the Murray-Darling Basin) a 70% reduction in water availability had very little aggregate economic impact.</para></quote>
<para>He went on to say that the institutional response of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan Commission, the basin states, and farmers to the dramatic reduction in rainfall and commensurate reduction in river flows was 'extraordinarily innovative' and 'effective':</para>
<quote><para class="block">Not only for the economy but … for ameliorating the environmental damage of the terrible drought.</para></quote>
<para>So why are we in such a catastrophic position now? How can it be possible that we are at the risk of running out of food and water in the next drought when, under the auspices of the Basin Plan, the more than 2,100 gigalitres of water has been transferred to the Commonwealth for the environment? What is that water doing? I'll tell you what it is not doing. That water will not be flowing to farmers or out of anyone's drinking water taps because it's not allowed to. It's for the environment. So pretending in these ads that the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is about protecting our drinking water and food production is absolute bunkum. This ad, the cost of which we don't know—I've got some questions in to find out—and which is being paid for by taxpayers, as is the associated campaign, is doing nothing but panicking the population. It would give you the impression that the Murray-Darling Basin Plan is a drought prevention plan and will keep water flowing to farmers and running out of our taps in the next drought. But, as I've explained, that is not true. The water now owned by the Commonwealth cannot be used by towns or farmers.</para>
<para>I want to remind people that, when the Basin Plan was developed and taken through parliament by then Minister Tony Burke, he was at absolute pains to point out that the plan was not a drought plan. It was a resilience plan. Even now, the MDBA website states that there are 'no guarantees'. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Even with better forecasting, improved planning and new policies in place, we cannot drought-proof the Basin. Droughts will continue to impact communities and the environment.</para></quote>
<para>Importantly, it goes on to explain:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The need to plan for drought has been understood since the early days of water management in Australia. Before dams were built along the River Murray, dry times meant parts of the river and its tributaries would sometimes be reduced to a series of pools, or cease to flow at all.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These experiences highlighted the need to manage the Murray in a more cooperative manner and build the dams, weirs and other structures to provide a more reliable flow.</para></quote>
<para>That is how we managed the millennium drought. In other words, since we started developing the Murray-Darling Basin—as in developing, building the weirs and the dams—we've learnt to manage the river through droughts. As I said before, during the millennium drought no town on the Murray River ran out of drinking water. Remember, as the MDBA also rightly points out:</para>
<quote><para class="block">During a drought, all allocations are reduced, whether the water is for farming or the environment.</para></quote>
<para>The fact of the matter is that, if it doesn't rain, it doesn't rain. There are no inflows into rivers and streams or into the dams. When the northern basin ran dry in the last drought, between 2017 and 2019, no basin plan could have assisted. No amount of held environmental water could assist the towns that nearly ran dry. At that time, when the rain stopped in January 2017 and with no significant inflows for two years, experts have said, without water infrastructure like dams and weirs, rivers would have ceased to flow by October 2017. But, thanks to that infrastructure and careful management, rivers continued to flow for another 12-plus months. That was thanks to infrastructure, not thanks to the Basin Plan.</para>
<para>Again, I ask: What is the government doing with these propaganda ads? Why are they actually standing up and telling people that $13 billion has been wasted, that 13 years of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan has achieved nothing and that we are now in a more precarious position than we were prior to the Basin Plan? This is misinformation writ large, and the government should apologise to the public for such an appalling propaganda campaign to justify further expenditure of public money to take water away from food and fibre production and away from towns and communities that rely on the basin for their very existence. These ads are a despicable waste of public money, and they are a blatant lie.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Hemp Industry, Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens have long advocated in this place and elsewhere for the hemp industry in Australia: industrial hemp, hemp for food, hemp for fuels, hemp for building materials and, of course, hemp for fibre and many other uses. There probably isn't a more exciting opportunity for Australian agriculture than hemp. So it was with some disappointment that this week we saw that a $200 million bid for a cooperative research centre and 10-year plan for the hemp industry wasn't funded by this government. Through the University of Queensland, this cooperative research centre was able to garner $50 million in commercial support for this cooperative research centre to have a long-term plan for Australian farmers and for communities to grow this amazing agricultural product, hemp.</para>
<para>The government has a very important role to play in hemp, because it's the government's fault that in 2024 this is still a fledgling industry. Because of the long history of the war on drugs, hemp has always been associated with cannabis and marijuana. It wasn't until the last five years that major restrictions around growing hemp were removed, but there are still too many restrictions on this industry, and in many people's minds it is still associated with cannabis. But it is an absolutely wonderful crop for us to be exploring, putting research and development into and putting innovation into.</para>
<para>AgriFutures, who recently funded a paper into the future of the hemp industry in Australia, said that, through growing high-value products, there was an $18.6 billion opportunity for Australia to seize the moment with hemp over the five-year time frame out to 2027. But, unfortunately, this cooperative research centre bid has failed. I applaud the agriculture minister for giving some funding to the hemp industry. I want to give a special shout-out to Andi Lucas from X-Hemp in Tasmania, who recently did receive some funding for her amazing business through a women in agriculture grant. I actually bumped into her in the dog park on the weekend and asked her how things were going. She said that it's really tough. She's knocking on the doors of investors, trying to do what she can to use hemp for building materials and for fibre, where we know it has applications all around the world.</para>
<para>It wasn't lost on me that, in the week that the cooperative research centre bid failed to get government support to grow this amazing industry, the agriculture minister flew into Tasmania and announced $100 million in funding from his government for a forest products innovation centre at the University of Tasmania. Specifically, it is called the Australian Forest and Wood Innovations program, AFWI, and there will be $100 million to fund forest and wood products research to 'meet wood and fibre needs into the future'.</para>
<para>The Greens would support that if it was restricted to plantation timber, but neither Minister Watt nor the University of Tasmania is providing any guarantees that our precious native forests won't be used in this research centre or that the applications of this research won't be used to create demand for conflict timbers out of our precious rainforests and wild places in Tasmania. It's also no coincidence that this announcement happened during a state election in Tasmania, when the current government announced that they would open up 45,000 hectares of Tasmania's precious mixed species wild rainforests for logging at a time of climate emergency—a time of species loss and biodiversity crisis.</para>
<para>Sure, you could assume that it was just a brain fart for the state election, designed to create conflict, whip up a bit of fear and a bit of division within the electorate, and demonise the Greens and conservationists who are trying to protect these forests. But, if you join the dots, there are a lot more sinister things going on here.</para>
<para>For example, it concerns me that this new $100 million research into forestry products is also going to examine the burning of forest residues for power—a long discredited form of renewable energy, particularly if it involves native forests, which are our first line of defence in our climate emergency for sequestering carbon. In fact, some of Tasmania's old rainforests in places like the Tarkine are the most carbon rich spots on the planet. It won't take long, I'm sure, before the major parties rip into them again—for what reason I just cannot ascertain, when there are better options out there, like hemp. Hemp is an amazing source of fibre. I can't understand why the government is not getting behind it as a substitute for things like native forest timber.</para>
<para>Can I also do a special shout-out to a Palawa Aboriginal elder, Jimmy Everett, who only yesterday in the Styx Valley was arrested and locked up for defending his land and country. Mr Everett's ancestors didn't just manage this country for 2,000 years—we have been there for just over 200 years—but they've managed this country for 2,000 generations. For 60,000 years they have lived in peace and harmony with the land in Tasmania, and he gets arrested for going and stopping forest destruction in the Styx Valley, which has some of the tallest flowering plants on the planet? It's outrageous. Nine protesters have been arrested this week. Only recently, Ali Alishah was also arrested and put in prison and is on a hunger strike—we are very concerned about his health—trying to protect these forests and bring attention to the fact that in this day and age it is madness to be logging these forests, especially when other states have committed to phasing out the logging of native forests. So I would like to do a special call out to Ali. There are a lot of people that support you. Search as hard as I may, I've found no statements from Tasmanian Labor or from LEAN, the Labor Environmental Action Network that he was very senior in, supporting him in his hunger vigil in Tasmanian prisons to protect these forests.</para>
<para>Dr Bob Brown, who I replaced in the Senate, once famously said, 'The future is green or not at all.' I'm optimistic that Tasmanians, this Saturday 23 March, will vote for a green future, that they will vote for the environment and protecting what is precious about Tasmania. They will vote for alternative policy solutions, things like fibre from hemp. They will vote to protect our wild and precious places from exploitation. They will vote for the Maugean skate, which is on the brink of extinction in Macquarie Harbour. They will vote for a different future. They will vote for integrity in politics. They will vote for cooperative politics. They will vote for an end to the two major parties' stranglehold on power in my home state of Tasmania. I'm optimistic that this Saturday we will see Tasmanians step up and vote for change.</para>
<para>I'd like to finish by doing a special shout-out to my Green colleagues in the state parliament in Tasmania, especially our leader, Dr Rosalie Woodruff, and Vica Bayley and all the candidates running for the Tasmanian Greens. I'm very proud of the work that you have done in such a short time when this Tasmanian government so cynically called an election a year and a half early, and not because of instability over two independents but because of instability within the Liberal Party in Tasmania, because of the insurgency that is being run by Eric Abetz and others within the Liberal Party. Somehow they're claiming that a majority Liberal government would be good for the state, when we've seen nothing but instability.</para>
<para>It's time for a different approach. I voted last week in the electorate of Bass, where I live, in Launceston. I proudly voted for Cecily Rosol number 1 and voted 1 to 7 for the Greens candidates, and I put the Liberal Party last. I urge others in Lyons in Tasmania to vote for Tabatha Badger, another amazing candidate, and Darren Briggs in Braddon, and make sure that the future is green.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to welcome members of the Health Services Union, care industry workers and the assistant secretary of New South Wales, Lauren Hutchins. I'll say a few things about the health services industry, particularly aged care, in a moment, and I'm going to have a lot more to say over the coming weeks.</para>
<para>I recently also met in Canberra with some of the elected Uber health and safety representatives, or HSRs: Nabin, Viral, Karthik and Rejin. These are some of the first health and safety representatives to be elected at Uber anywhere in the world. They told me about some of the practical solutions they have won in their workplace. The first issue was that drivers are waiting around restaurants, not getting paid, before picking up a food order. This was despite there being a quick fix on the order system where businesses can set the start time for the pick-up of orders after 30 minutes. But one company, Grill'd, which is a little bit notorious for burger university and is also famous for ripping off its own employees, didn't want to actually make the system more efficient, and naturally, over time, the drivers started to refuse to pick up orders at that store. As a result, there were often 30 orders sitting there cold. After a few months, the franchisee owner was getting in trouble and begged drivers to start picking up orders again. They both agreed to implement the quick fix that would save them both time.</para>
<para>The second issue they raised was at Woolworths, where the click-and-collect workers weren't loading orders into a trolley, so the Uber drivers had to do it themselves, taking on health and safety risks without workers compensation or appropriate remuneration. Woolworths had actually subcontracted three other people to do that work and often did not have those people available. Uber drivers banded together to communicate this issue to the store manager, and it got fixed through their occupational health and safety reps.</para>
<para>The third issue was that drivers were having problems with Woolworths workers not acknowledging that they were waiting for click-and-collect orders at the front desk. They were deprioritising them behind other customers in the line. The issue was that the Uber app treated this as wasted time for drivers, and it would often deactivate workers because they weren't picking up the orders. Uber drivers came to management with a solution. They said to Woolworths, 'You could put a special bell in for drivers to use to get the attention of the back of house staff.' The drivers brought forth a sensible solution, and the next day that Woolworths store adopted that solution, to their credit.</para>
<para>What we can see from these examples is that what starts as a small issue can become a bigger issue if not addressed. Being an elected health and safety rep means that workers can work with management to improve their workplace. It delivers better outcomes, not just for workers but for employers as well. Health and safety representatives have legal protections from being victimised, like Theo just recently, a former health and safety rep at Qantas, who was unlawfully stood down for raising concerns about worker safety during the COVID-19 pandemic. In March this year, the District Court of New South Wales rightly slugged Qantas with a criminal conviction. Yes, it's now official—at Qantas, they are a criminal outfit. The judge made the comment that there was a clear gross power imbalance between the company and their staff, and it should not be used to silence workers who bring forward safety concerns.</para>
<para>But it's clear from these examples that productivity isn't some abstract thing; it's about finding how you do something that is more effective and safer for everyone, rather than working longer for less, like the opposition leader, Peter Dutton, wants us all to do. Workers told me that a major problem in the gig industry is the ratcheting down of rates of pay, which means that workers have to work longer and longer to make a living wage. This is the reinforcing cycle, where the algorithm drives down pay. Many of those opposite, not all, think that these workers don't deserve any protections at work and that they should be left to the mercy of the algorithm. Many of those opposite complain about union activism, but this is what activism looks like—those examples I've just given. It's better for workers and better for employers.</para>
<para>But again, fundamentally, we keep seeing that Peter Dutton, the Liberals and the Nationals are always for that low pay. They opposed these measures and measures to give a voice to workers that so significantly were brought through just recently in the closing the loopholes act. They voted against gig reform, supported by gig workers and gig platforms alike. In contrast, this government wants to use tripartism as a way to bring businesses and workers together to reach actual productivity gains, as in some of the examples I've run through today—simple, practical and life-changing opportunities for people.</para>
<para>Gig workers and their unions have fought for legislative changes, but more work still has to be done. Right now, state unions are running important cases and campaigns across the country to make gig workers' platforms contribute to state workers compensation schemes to cover platform workers, including those in the care industry, the food delivery industry and the rideshare industry. At the moment, the insurance that some digital platform operators have in place is significantly insufficient to cover loss of income when workers are injured or killed and is substantially less than workers compensation. Michael Kaine, the national secretary of the Transport Workers Union, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">So far, 15 food delivery riders and a rideshare driver have been killed at work. There's no time to lose in protecting these workers and their families in every state and territory with the workers' compensation safety net.</para></quote>
<para>Jared Abbott, the assistant general secretary of the Queensland Council of Unions, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While gig workers suffer, large corporations reap the benefits. Uber, a global giant, continues to operate without contributing to WorkCover premiums. Instead, taxpayers shoulder the responsibility, by footing the bill through compulsory third party insurance.</para></quote>
<para>The Health Services Union—my good friends here will have much more to say in the coming weeks about the HSU—has called for gig platforms that use a contractor model to contribute to workers compensation schemes as well. The Health Services Union has noted that taxpayers and the Victorian government bear the cost of high numbers of worker incidents in the care economy, including in disability, aged care and mental health care.</para>
<para>I support gig workers and the unions in their campaign for state governments to force multinational platforms, many of them platforms that are funded by equity funds for profit, to pay insurance premiums and to build on the new national rights for platform workers that we've introduced nationally. This is what brings fair competition in the market for those that meet those standards that many in Australia expect and that, unfortunately, those on the opposite side consistently vote against. But those companies that do the right thing should have a fair playing field. They should actually have companies also meeting the same standards and the same rules. These platforms should be paying workers compensation as well and should be contributing to those requirements so that the rest of the community doesn't have to bear the cost.</para>
<para>These are just some of the issues that workers and unions keep raising. In the care industry they've just recently won a valiant victory for wages that recognise the value of their work. This morning I met with the delegates who are up here today—Elaine, Lobby, Walesi, Alena and Ulamila. They told me about the historic wage increases of up to 28 per cent in the aged-care sector, which will change the lives of workers and older Australians. The government is committed to providing funding to support increases to award wages made by the commission in this matter. This will help deliver a higher standard of care for older Australians. As the national president of the Health Services Union, Gerard Hayes, has said, this is sector that has been 'held together by the goodwill and commitment of a severely underpaid, insecurely employed workforce'. Having a wage increase of between 18 and 28 per cent brings them into a competitive market with health facilities across the country.</para>
<para>Historically, we've seen those opposite vote against initiatives that bring these low-paid workers into a better paid system. The latest example I've been given on this, and also the health and representatives I spoke to today, stressed that there needs to be a fulsome approach towards workforce planning in aged care. Those I spoke to are calling for a positive registration scheme for workers that puts training opportunities and funding allocations at the heart of the industry. But, as in the NDIS, there are some dodgy providers that follow the money and look to outsource work to agencies and engage gig platforms. It's important that those gig companies also have the same registration responsibilities—in all industries as well as in aged care, which is as it should be.</para>
<para>During the royal commission into aged care, the senior counsel assisting, Peter Gray QC, argued that, without regulation, there's no compulsion for platforms like Mable to follow best practice. Older Australians deserve best practice, and workers in aged care deserve a fair wage. The new aged care act will be core to putting the rights of older people at the centre of aged care. We must all get it right.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>October 7 saw the largest murder of Jews since the Holocaust. Over 1,300 souls were massacred. Hundreds were taken hostage. Previously in the Senate, I read out the names of all hostages: mums and dads, grandparents, brothers and sisters, toddlers and teenagers, babies, families—people just like you and me. While some hostages have been released, here are the names of those who are still being held hostage by murdering terrorists Hamas. Bring them home.</para>
<para>Yagev Kirsht, Alexander Trupanov, Arbel Yahud, Dolev Yahud, David Cunio, Doron Steinbrecher, Itzhak Gelerenter, Naama Levy, Yousef Zyadna, Hamza Zyadna, Elad Katzir, Ohad Ben Ami, Gali Berman, Ziv Berman, Shlomo Mansour, Michel Nisenbaum, Daniela Gilboa, Itay Chen, Matan Angrest, Yosi Sharabi, Eli Sharabi, Agam Berger, Edan Alexander, Kaid Farhan Elkadi, Matan Zanguaker, Eitan Horn, Yair Horn, Itai Svirsky, Omri Miran, Bipin Joshi, Ilan Weiss, Amiram Cooper, Oded Lifshitz and Haim Peri.</para>
<para>Avraham Munder, Omer Neutra, Ron Benjamin, Judith Weinstein Haggai, Alex Danzig, Itzhk Elgarat, Gadi Moses, Nimrod Cohen, Tsachi Idan, Yarden Bibas, Ronen Engel, Karina Ariev, Ofer Kalderon, Yoram Metzger, Nadav Popplewell, Omri Miran, Liri Elbag, Lior Rudaeff, Shlomi Ziv, Alexander Lobanov, Ori Danino, Almog Sarusi, Omer Shem Tov, Idan Shtivi, Andrei Kozlov, Elyakim Libman, Noa Argamani and Avinatan Or.</para>
<para>Eden Yerushalmi, Chanan Yablonka, Guy Gilboa-Dalal, Uriel Baruch, Maxim Kharkin, Elkana Bohbot, Rom Braslavski, Omer Wenkert, Evyatar David, Eitan Mor, Alon Ohel, Almog Meir Jan, Inbar Heiman, Hersh Goldberg-Polin, Segev Kalfon, Orion Hernandez Radoux, Romi Lesham Gonen, Bar Kuperstein, Eliya Cohen, Carmel Gat, Ohad Yahalomi, Dror Or, Tal Shoham, Sagui Dekel-Chen, Watchara Sriuan, Kiattisak 'Top' Patee and a Mr Pongtorn.</para>
<para>Bring them home. Bring them all home.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will now move to five-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania State Election</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's just a few days until Tasmania votes. This campaign has been a lot dirtier than usual, and that has been a pure case of fear. What are Premier Rockliff and Tasmanian Liberals so afraid of? Sharing power, that's what. It's brought them to their knees. At the last federal election, the polls were telling us that Tasmanians are looking to independents and micro-parties, like the Jacqui Lambie Network, in record numbers. It's very clear to me why this is happening. The Tasmanian Liberal Party put their ego and their party politics before the people of Tasmania. Both of the major parties in Tasmania take money from big corporations, and, in Labor's case, the unions. Instead of asking what the voters want they ask their donors and get their talking points from their party headquarters. Every election, they pull dirty tricks.</para>
<para>Last week, the Tasmanian Liberals got right down in the dirt—six feet under with those worms. They bought a website address almost identical to the Jacqui Lambie Network, they used a photo of me, mucked around with our logo and then lied about the network and our candidates. The day I found out about it, emotionally it hit me like a brick. Honestly, I have never felt so violated in my life. They were using my name to lie about our candidates. Come the next day, I was beyond that, I was just plain angry. This is the kind of gutter politics that the Liberal Party is indulging in before the state election in Tasmania. Apparently, it's fine to throw your principles to the wind when you're running for political office.</para>
<para>I'm not the only Australian who gets angry about this behaviour. Tasmanians hate it and Australians hate it. The Australia Institute did some polling last year, just after the Voice referendum, and it showed that more than nine in 10 Australians want truth in political advertising laws, and they think they should be in place in time for the next federal election campaign. The problem we have is that it is perfectly legal to lie in a political ad. That is absolutely rubbish. You can't lie in ads about beauty products, you can't lie in ads about baby food, but you can lie about your political opponent.</para>
<para>This government is apparently, maybe quite soon, going to bring legislation to parliament that has spending caps and new powers for an independent regulator to enforce truth in political advertising laws. The federal opposition leader has also said that the laws to stop lies in political advertising are, and I quote, 'probably welcome'. Get ready. There's a bill being introduced in this sitting of parliament that could fix this, and if this government is fair dinkum about fixing the problems in our electoral system, putting trust back into Australians and cleaning up lies in political advertising—like what the Tasmanian Liberals have chucked at me—they could get on with it and show Australians they are serious about cleaning up Australian politics. Australians want it. In fact, they don't just want it, but they are begging for it. If the Labor Party and Liberal Party don't support this bill it will confirm what most Australians already know: that the major parties only care about hanging on to power and, like the Tasmanian Liberals, they will do whatever they have to do to hang on to power.</para>
<para>Both the major parties in Tasmania are chucking out promises like they're lollies. I've never seen anything like it, but I don't think Tasmanians believe them anymore. The Tasmanian Liberals have had 10 years to fix our health system and our schools and get roofs over the heads of Tasmanian families. They have failed miserably—actually, more than miserably. The only way Tasmanians and Australians will get parliaments that have integrity and transparency is by electing candidates like the ones I am running—independent thinkers who won't be dictated to by donors or party bosses and who will be members of parliament who will put Australian people first.</para>
<para>As I have said, we are just a few days away from polling in Tasmania and the majors are worried, especially the Liberals. If the polls are right, Tasmanians are looking to independents and micro-parties like the Jacqui Lambie Network in record numbers. That's because we are more in touch with Australians than the major parties are. Take, for example, donation reform. The Liberals promised Tasmanians they would fix our donation reforms in 2018. They finally came up with a bill to disclose donations at $1,000, Then, at the last minute, they changed it to $5,000. Instead of holding them to account, the Tasmanian Labor Party rolled over just like that. You can't trust them, can you?</para>
<para>The Prime Minister came to Launceston last week, supposedly to launch the Tasmanian Labor Party's campaign but really it was to hold a fundraiser dinner and breakfast. Those are also known as boardroom lunches, charging Tasmanian businesses thousands of dollars for access in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis to sit with government powerbrokers. Seriously? If the government refuses to debate this legislation from the crossbench and refuses to pass it they will drive more voters into the arms of independents and micro-parties like the Jacqui Lambie Network. I challenge you to try your luck before the next election. Let's see what you're made of. I want some truth back to the Australian people.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Endometriosis</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Endometriosis is a disease that is estimated to affect one in seven Australian women. It's an untreatable, unpreventable and, in many cases, extremely painful disease. One woman in every seven is a significant number. It's a complex disorder that can disrupt every aspect of a woman's life from physical health to emotional wellbeing, engagement at work and the ability to conceive. It can be difficult to diagnose endometriosis, which often means a young woman can have multiple years of intense pain, emotional distress, frustration, anxiety and uncertainty.</para>
<para>Olivia and Isobel are two cousins in Tasmania who suffer from endometriosis, and I've heard their story. They speak of having to choose between a specialist appointment and an important work priority. They speak of having to exhaust their sick leave to cope with the disease. They speak of feeling as though their voices are not being heard.</para>
<para>The health and wellbeing of women and girls is something I'm very passionate about, and I'm proud to be part of a government committed to taking endometriosis and women's health seriously. As part of the 2022-23 budget, the Albanese Labor government announced a $58.3 million package for endometriosis and pelvic pain. This includes the establishment of 22 clinics, an Australian first—one in each state and territory. These clinics will provide life-changing support for women and girls who've suffered in silence for far too long. The endometriosis and pelvic pain clinic in Tasmania has been established in Glenorchy at the Family Planning Tasmania offices. This clinic provides expert multidisciplinary services and care for women. Family Planning Tasmania will receive more than $700,000 over four years to support the hiring of specialised staff, including nurse practitioners and allied health professionals, and investment in equipment and training.</para>
<para>This month, March, is Endometriosis Awareness Month. It is fantastic to see many buildings in my home state of Tasmania lit up in yellow, the Endometriosis Awareness Month colour, as part of Endo Enlightened to mark the start of this significant month. It's an opportunity to raise awareness and understanding of endometriosis. By promoting education and empathy, we can create a more supportive environment for women with endometriosis and encourage open dialogue that is free from any stigma. Supporting women with endometriosis can lead to earlier diagnosis and intervention and improved outcomes for women. We can all play a role.</para>
<para>Take the time to learn about endo, its symptoms and treatments, and the challenges women and girls face. Understanding the condition better will enable you to offer informed support and empathy. There are some incredible resources available, especially through organisations like Endometriosis Australia, which has been promoting awareness, pursuing advocacy, producing resources and information, and highlighting the impact of endometriosis in the workplace for over a decade. Recognise that the symptoms of endometriosis can fluctuate, and women may need to adjust their activities or schedules accordingly. Be flexible and understanding if plans need to be changed at the last minute due to pain or fatigue. Help raise awareness about endo by sharing accurate information, participating in awareness campaigns or having conversations with your close ones to educate them about the condition.</para>
<para>Women with endometriosis deserve to be heard, believed and supported in their management of the disease. It's our job to be open, adaptable and understanding. It's our job to keep challenging the stigma or any misconceptions around the disease. We will continue to take endometriosis seriously and provide the best support we can to the many thousands of Australian women who suffer from it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to talk about energy prices—something that I know every Australian household is interested in. Yesterday, the Australian Energy Regulator released its draft default market offer determination. At best—and, luckily, this was in my home state of Victoria—there was a seven per cent decrease on that offer. That is the ceiling at which energy retailers can set their highest price. In some states and for some consumers, there were actually price increases. This is on the back of the last two years. Last year there was a 22 per cent increase, I believe, and the year before that there was a 10 per cent increase. The premise for those price increases was that energy prices had gone up because of the war in Ukraine, which we know had some effect. But, since then, we've seen a 70 per cent decrease in wholesale energy prices for coal and a 38 per cent decrease for gas. Yet the AER comes out and says, 'No, at best we're going to give you a seven per cent decrease on your energy prices.' I don't know how they get to this number. This is the Australian energy system being rorted for the benefit of retailers and transmission companies, and it's not in the interests of Australian households.</para>
<para>The AER goes on to say in their draft determination that some of their network costs have gone up due to the poles and wires that deliver the energy from the point of generation to your house. These costs are extraordinary, and they're only going up. AEMO, through its integrated system plan, or ISP, is proposing that Australian consumers pay for another $100 billion worth of poles and wires. The seed funding is being underwritten by $20 billion of taxpayers' money via the Rewiring the Nation plan.</para>
<para>Let's have a quick talk about transmission and the poles and wires that are delivering energy. They were historically needed. When Sir John Monash was asked to start the SEC in Victoria and to electrify Melbourne, he looked for a source of fuel for energy, and he found coal down in the Latrobe Valley. So he built the generation down there and he built transmission to bring it up to Melbourne. That is no longer necessary. With the cleaner energy technology that Australia possesses, we no longer need to transmit energy over long distances. We can put the generation where the load is because the fuel is everywhere. The sun is everywhere, most of the time, and wind is in separate places, but the idea of building generation out in the far reaches of the countryside and transmitting it throughout Australia is century-old thinking. Our clean energy technology has got past that. We no longer need to spend these obscene amounts of money to transmit energy to where the demand is. It's just going to drive up energy bills more and more, and it's not necessary.</para>
<para>In the not-too-distant future, I'm going to call for a Senate inquiry into Australia's energy system so that senators can look at the prices that are being paid and the amount of transmission that is being forced through without the AER enforcing the rules. That will hold the whole energy system to account and finally give Australians some transparency about the energy prices they're being asked to pay.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East: Protests, Nuclear Waste Management</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>During parliament question time on Monday this week, we saw protesters disrupting parliamentary procedure because they were calling for a ceasefire and for an end to the genocide in Gaza. Many of the protesters who were in the gallery during the House of Reps question time have come from groups like Families for Palestine. These groups have been picketing outside the Prime Minister's electorate office in the heart of Sydney for six weeks now. They're largely mums and supporters of those mums from within the Prime Minister's own electorate, and the Prime Minister has directed his office to lock the door to them, to not answer their calls, to not let them in and to not speak to them. For six weeks they have been camped outside seeking a response, and so they finally came here. They came to parliament and they came into the gallery.</para>
<para>In case you couldn't hear their call on the video feed, this is what they said: 'Albanese, your hands are red; 1,500 children dead.' That was their call. That's what they said. And I can tell you this: it's not the first time there has been more conviction and principle in the galleries of this place than there is on the floor of parliament. It's not the first time we've seen clearer, more morally unambiguous statements coming from the community and holding this place to account.</para>
<para>Many of these people have loved ones in Gaza, and so the smirking response of members of the government and the opposition to these families as they were removed from the parliament because they dared to bring politics and truth to the parliament was hard to watch. Many of those families and many people in the Palestinian diaspora and their supporters across this country saw the smugness of this place. They saw the smugness of the government and the sense of moral superiority that they get from the government—the same government that refuses to do what it can to stop the genocide. The government continues to disrespect their calls for a permanent ceasefire and a just peace. But the protesters were heard this week. Thank goodness they're there, and thank goodness this community is so far ahead of this government when it comes to the issue of a free Palestine and a permanent, just peace.</para>
<para>Last weekend I had the privilege of joining First Nations traditional owners and elders from across the country who form the Australian Nuclear Free Alliance, ANFA, gathering on Dharawal country at the beautiful escarpment just to the east of Wollongong. Those First Nations elders and the representatives that they'd worked with from nuclear affected communities across the continent travelled to Dharawal country, where they met with trade union leaders, local organisers and activists. They made one strong, powerful call, and that was that every part of First Nations land—and that means every part of this continent—needs to be protected from nuclear waste, from nuclear weapons and, most particularly, from the threat of contamination of their land that comes under AUKUS.</para>
<para>From Muckaty to Woomera to Kimba, First Nations elders, First Nations traditional owners, have stopped both the ALP and the coalition from contaminating their land with nuclear waste. Some of those campaigners have already seen the UK contaminate their land by detonating nuclear weapons on their land. They know what it means to have their land poisoned. And so when they heard about the government's proposed changes, under the AUKUS legislation, to permit any part of the country to be turned into a high-level nuclear waste dump without any First Nations consultation and without any legal protections, simply by a regulation passed by the defence minister, they were outraged. They are outraged and they are building a national campaign to sink the government's proposal to allow US and UK nuclear waste, and Australian nuclear waste, to ever find its way onto their land under the guise of AUKUS.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Homelessness</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last night, the Parliamentary Friends of Housing, which I co-chair with the members for Macnamara and Moncrieff, Josh Burns and Angie Bell, hosted a screening of <inline font-style="italic">Under Cover</inline>, a chilling documentary exposing the crisis of homelessness facing older women in Australia. It's available on iview, and I encourage all of my colleagues to watch it. We heard from Margaret, who is in the documentary and is currently living in her van. She had questions for politicians but also was sharing her story. She said that, when she posted on Facebook that she was coming to Canberra for this, she received over 300 responses from other women in similar situations who wanted to share their experiences and their solutions.</para>
<para>Last year National Shelter brought a delegation of women with lived experience of this crisis to parliament. Their stories were heartbreaking—an 84-year-old being kicked out of her family home by her now ex-husband and forced into homelessness. That is just one story of thousands of women who have lost access to secure housing through relationship breakdown. According to census data, older women—those aged 55 and over—were the fastest-growing cohort of homeless Australians between 2011 and 2016, increasing by a staggering 31 per cent. In the most recent census, they were overtaken by young people. Around 28,200 young people aged 12 to 24 years were estimated to have been experiencing homelessness on census night in 2021, making up nearly a quarter of the total homeless population—and there are many who believe that this is an underestimation. Here in the ACT there is no dedicated youth homeless shelter. We have to do better.</para>
<para>We know about these problems. We know that we need more ambition from everyone in this place to actually solve them—not to have promises of things in the future but to get down and find the solutions now. I believe we need to start with the conversation around what housing is for in Australia. Is this a human right? We've signed up to the UN convention, but it's not reflected anywhere here in Australia. Is this a human right? Is this something that everyone in our communities should be able to afford, so everyone can be safe, or is this an investment vehicle? Is this something where you can expect it to be hard to get onto the property ladder, but, once you're on, you can expect values to go up and you can expect it potentially to be easier to buy your second home than your first?</para>
<para>Applications for round 1 of the Housing Australia Future Fund close on Friday, and, from what I hear, demand from community housing providers to access the funding is strong. The capacity is there, and we know that the need is there too. Thirty thousand homes over five years is a start, but it's not going to touch the sides. I urge the government to double the HAFF in the upcoming budget. You've got people doing it tough, living in homelessness. You've got a surplus. Spend that on housing. Double the size of the HAFF in the budget.</para>
<para>We also need to put property tax concession reform on the table. We've got to be talking about the capital gains tax discount on investment properties and negative gearing. One thing that has dropped off—we haven't heard the government talk about it for a while—is that the NRAS, the National Rental Affordability Scheme, is being phased out at the moment. At the very time that we're hearing them talk about the need for more social and affordable homes, we're phasing out a scheme. Take the ACT, for example. We'll potentially get 1,200 homes under the HAFF. We're losing more through the phasing-out of NRAS. It makes no sense. This is something the government could have funded. Their excuse is, 'The coalition decided to end funding for this.' They made the decision not to fund it. I urge them to look at the NRAS properties that are still there and whether they can be bought or the NRAS can be continued. We've heard talk about rental reform. This was promised through National Cabinet. We've heard nothing else. This is urgent.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Grocery Prices</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In large parts of the Australian economy at the moment corporations have got too much power, and that is resulting in bad outcomes for our environment, for nature and for the planet's climate. But it's also resulting in bad outcomes for the Australian people. Our economy in this country is dominated by large corporations who have too much market power. Nowhere is that more obvious than in the supermarket sector. Australia needs law reform in this area. We need divestiture laws in Australia which would create the powers to break up the supermarket duopoly.</para>
<para>We are seeing Coles and Woolworths ruthlessly use their market power—market domination—to crush farmers, to exploit workers and to price-gouge shoppers in this country. Millions of Australians are struggling to make ends meet at the moment. We've all been there; you arrive at the supermarket checkout and you simply cannot believe the cost of what you have taken off the shelf and put into your trolley. It is time that the Australian people and their interests took precedence and priority over the interests of the supermarket corporations.</para>
<para>Coles and Woolworths are raking in billions of dollars in profits, our farmers are being crushed, workers in the supermarkets are being done over and customers are being price-gouged. The Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia accepted recently that some corporations are using the cover of high inflation to raise their prices over and above what they need to in response to increases in their input costs. The head of the ACCC accepts the proposition that if we had divestiture powers in Australia food and grocery prices would be lower than they otherwise would be. And who is standing in the way of divestiture powers in Australia? The Australian Labor Party and the Prime Minister, Mr Albanese.</para>
<para>They are very happy to go to the supermarkets and be photographed in Coles safety vests, but they are not prepared to stand up to Coles or Woolworths and take the side of the Australian people and Australian shoppers. Those political donations from Coles and Woolworths sure are paying off in spades. Minor investment into the Labor Party equals major political outcomes, like the Prime Minister refusing to support divestiture laws in Australia. It is time Mr Albanese made a choice to stand with the Australian people, not stand with the giant supermarket corporations.</para>
<para>We need far stronger merger laws in Australia, but we also need divestiture powers. Mr Albanese suggests these are Soviet style powers. Perhaps he is not aware that that well-known command-and-control economy, the United States of America, has had divestiture powers in the form of antitrust laws since the 1890s. Perhaps Mr Albanese doesn't know that the United Kingdom has divestiture powers. Perhaps Mr Albanese doesn't know that there are multiple countries in Europe right now using divestiture powers to insert more competition into their supermarket sectors to bring down the prices of food and groceries.</para>
<para>Mr Albanese should stop siding with his political donors, the giant supermarket corporations of Coles and Woolworths, and start siding with the Australian people, millions of whom are struggling to make ends meet. We have had horror stories told to the Senate Select Committee on Supermarket Prices—stories of single mothers going without meals so they could feed their kids and people in tears describing how their mothers are skipping meals because they just cannot afford to buy food. It is time for Mr Albanese to take the side of the Australian people and join with the Australian Greens to support the creation of divestiture powers to break up the supermarket duopoly.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We shall now proceed to two-minute statements.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mining Industry</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The federal Labor government's hostility towards the mining resources sector is reverberating around the world. After recently attending the Prospectors & Developers Association of Canada Convention in Toronto, it is clear that Australia is sending signals to the mining world that will have disastrous implications for our economy not just now but for years to come. It now takes 16 years to get approval for a new energy or critical minerals mine. For context, that means that a new mine opening in Australia today would have to have started the process back in 2008, during the global financial crisis. Since Labor assumed government in 2022, this company would also have to factor in increased taxes, soaring energy costs, a dramatic rise in union powers, new industrial relations laws, stricter environmental regulations and federally funded court actions by green groups.</para>
<para>The PDAC conference ranks amongst the largest of its kind, with 1,100 exhibitors and 27,000 participants from all over the world. It is a stage on which resources-rich Australia should shine, but our light is noticeably dimmed against other countries with a far more enthusiastic approach to attracting new mines. We've delayed the approvals process for too long, and we've made it hard for companies to invest in Australia in a reasonable time frame. This means that, instead of providing Australia with well-paid mining jobs, royalties and taxes, we risk relying on the rest of the world for our needs and losing the benefits of a successful resources industry.</para>
<para>Each week, companies tell me that delayed approvals make it hard to secure investment and ensure Australian jobs stay in Australia. This has a flow-on effect for our manufacturing businesses, and many have been forced to close. They could survive COVID, but they couldn't survive this Labor government.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foote, Mr David</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to pay tribute to everyone's favourite Scotsman—someone who has called Parliament House home for the past 32 years and has captured many significant moments through his camera lens. I speak, of course, of our favourite photographer, David Foote from Auspic. Footie, as he is affectionately known, is about to call time on this place, so today I'd like to focus the camera lens on him.</para>
<para>Footie has captured powerful moments that otherwise would've gone unnoticed, and he's always greeted everyone with a very warm smile. When you walk into his Auspic office, the iconic snaps above his desk immediately grab your attention. There are former prime ministers, world leaders, members of the royal family and, of course, many members of parliament and senators adorning the wall, but let's zoom in a little further. I have it on good authority that in recent years our Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, has remarked to Footie: 'You've got more photos of me than my own mother had!'</para>
<para>As Footie prepares—g'day, Footie—to take his final snaps and put his camera down, I'd like to thank him and congratulate him for his extraordinary service to this place over the last three decades. He's always been passionate about preserving the history of parliament, and it's fitting that his photos will now be preserved for many generations to come. As for what's next, I'm reliably informed that he's going to spend more time at home building his steam locomotives. We look forward to seeing the official photos when the project is done.</para>
<para>Footie, well done on a brilliant career, mate, and thanks for all your time here at Parliament House.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>By a clear margin, 2023 was the hottest year on record. We are now closer than ever before to breaching the 1.5-degree global heating limit. These are not records that the world should be smashing. This warning is just another in the long list of warnings over the years that the planet is on the brink. How many more red alerts, code reds and alarm bells will ring before the world decides to act? How many more species will become extinct before Australia decides to act? How many more lives and livelihoods will be lost before we decide to act? We know who the culprits and the villains are. Coal and gas are the biggest contributors to the climate crisis. Australia's insatiable appetite to dig up, ship off and burn fossil fuels is killing the planet.</para>
<para>We know this has to end, yet here we have a Labor government doing the bidding of their mates Santos and Woodside to fast-track their climate-destroying offshore gas projects. Rather than strengthening nature protections, as Environment and Water Minister Plibersek promised at the last election, Labor is doing a dodgy deal with the Liberals to make gas projects exempt from environmental laws altogether. They are trying to sideline and silence First Nations communities who have been fighting against these projects.</para>
<para>The millions of dollars in dirty donations to major political parties by fossil fuel corporations is working, like it's meant to. They are writing our environmental laws. Well, the Greens are not going to stand by and let this happen. We will fight tooth and nail. Join our fight. Tell Labor to work with the Greens to strengthen our environmental laws, not with the climate wreckers to trash them.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tweed Valley</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>During the sitting break, I travelled to the Tweed Valley in northern New South Wales to hear from local families and small businesses about how the housing crisis and increasing cost-of-living crisis impacts them. The message from the community of Tweed was pretty clear: life is hard. It is hard to afford every increase in the cost of just about everything.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government promised the families and small businesses of Australia and Tweed that life would be better under Labor. As an example, we were promised a $275 cut to power bills. Instead, families in New South Wales have seen an increase in their power bills of around $752. That's a 37 per cent increase, and it is clear that this reality is showing no sign of abating.</para>
<para>Another focus of my time in the Tweed was the housing crisis. Contrary to popular belief, the housing crisis is not one that is confined to our major cities. At the Business Kingscliff housing forum, I heard firsthand from local businesses of the challenges that they face boosting new housing stock. At almost every turn, red tape stands in the way of providing adequate housing for our communities, particularly in regional New South Wales. At the forum, we heard from the local police about the difficulty of finding housing for new probationary constables. We have to do better than that.</para>
<para>I had the opportunity to visit Tropical Fruit World and gain some insights into the importance of agritourism and the economic and social benefits that it brings to communities like the Tweed. I would like to acknowledge Tweed Shire councillors James Owen and Rhiannon Brinsmead. They're exceptional community representatives and advocates who know in intricate detail what their community needs. I thank them for their efforts in making my trip a success and in advocating for their community.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Marriage</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It gives me great pleasure to rise today to do a little trip down memory lane, if the Senate will indulge me. On 16 November 2017, in here, I made a contribution on the outcome of the marriage equality plebiscite. The marvellous outcome had been announced only a day earlier. Sadly, we had to be put through that terrible time, in my opinion—that couple of months going through to the plebiscite. We should never have had to have done that. But we know how the result turned out and how fantastic it was.</para>
<para>In that contribution, I spoke about what the outcome meant to people like my right-hand man, Ben, from my office and his partner, James. I said the following:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For Ben in my office, the result yesterday and this bill mean that people want his relationship to matter. They want it to be equal and they want people like Benny and his partner, James, to have the opportunity to get married.</para></quote>
<para>Well, fast forward seven years and Ben and James just did that a couple of weeks ago. Ben and James got married in Perth on 8 March, surrounded by 200 of their nearest and dearest and me. It was just the most amazing day that I can say I've had at a wedding. For so many people, and for Fiona and me, it was our first same-sex marriage. My goodness me, what a beautiful day it was. The speeches were fantastic. There were the tears, the families, the grandparents and the loved ones. I can honestly say that I've been to a few weddings in my 64 years, but that, Benny, was my favourite. I'm so proud that I actually got to vote and make a difference so that same-sex couples can get married in this nation. Love is love.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Congratulations, Ben and James! Senator Hanson.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gender and Sexual Orientation</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Trust the Brits to get it right! They showed the way with Brexit, and now they're showing the way with gender dysphoria. The United Kingdom's National Health Service last week announced that it will no longer prescribe puberty blockers to treat minors—that's children under 18 years of age—presenting with gender dysphoria. The NHS said, 'We have concluded that there is not enough evidence to support the safety or clinical effectiveness of puberty blockers to make the treatment routinely available at this time.' This is a critical development in this space, with an alarming rise in children presenting with gender dysphoria all over the Western world. About 16 months ago, it was revealed that there had been a tenfold increase in Australian children being treated at public gender clinics from 2014 to 2021. More alarmingly, there has been a hundredfold increase in children being treated with puberty blockers over the same period.</para>
<para>If it were any other condition, such huge increases would warrant multiple inquiries into the causes. With this condition, any call for an inquiry similar to what has happened in the UK is blocked by the hideous politics of identity and victimhood embodied by the Labor-Marxist Greens, the seven regressive Liberals and Senator David Pocock. If Britain can listen to its people on this issue, so can the Australian Senate. If you don't permit the inquiry I'm moving today—my third attempt since 22 November—you will be showing your fear of the Australian people and their views; you will be showing that you don't care about the welfare of these poor kids and their families; you'll be showing you're a bunch of sick puppies; and you will face the consequences of your inaction.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Volunteers</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to talk about the generosity of Western Australians. The generosity of Western Australians was revealed just recently in the 2023 <inline font-style="italic">W</inline><inline font-style="italic">estern </inline><inline font-style="italic">A</inline><inline font-style="italic">ustralia</inline><inline font-style="italic"> state of volunteering report</inline>.</para>
<para>We know what the benefits of volunteering are to our community, but I want to highlight some important data points that were revealed in that report. That data showed that increased volunteering rates lead to a number of benefits across the economy and our broader community. For instance, the WA report indicates that over $4.6 billion of WA's gross state product is comprised of the volunteering sector—an amount comparable to the contribution of the accommodation and food services industry. There was also an extraordinary increase in the total economic benefits of volunteering in WA, rising from $39 billion in 2015 to $63.9 billion of volunteering effort in 2020-23—a $3.1 billion increase each year. That reflects a 470 per cent return on investment for volunteering in WA last year alone. Think about that—a $4.70 return for every dollar invested in volunteering.</para>
<para>Of course, we know that volunteering has important social benefits. It brings greater wellbeing and happiness an awareness of wider social issues, greater pride in people's companies and workplaces, the development of greater understanding and empathy, and the procurement of teamwork and communication skills. These are great virtues for the people who choose to volunteer, but they're also great virtues for our whole community. I want to applaud Volunteering WA for the work that it does in encouraging, motivating and sustaining such an important contribution not just to the economy of Western Australia but to the wellbeing of every Western Australian.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 2011, Labor made paid parental leave a reality, but super wasn't part of the deal until now. Our government will proudly extend this legacy by introducing superannuation on paid parental leave. Huge congratulations go to those who advocated tirelessly for this change: my colleagues, our unions and the broader women's movement. Without a Labor government, reforms like this just wouldn't happen. The coalition would never consider making these kinds of reforms. Extending super to paid parental leave highlights the undervalued role of caregiving in our society. The stark reality is that women retire with 25 per cent less super than men. This disparity is glaring, and we're not looking away from it. The policy isn't just about finances; it's actually about recognising the priceless contribution of caregiving, and it's about empowering women's choices. Parents just shouldn't face penalties for prioritising their newborns. By extending parental leave to 26 weeks by 2026, with four weeks reserved for each parent, and increasing the super rate to 12 per cent, we are paving the path to equality.</para>
<para>Paying super on paid parental leave has always been a Labor priority. It's not just good for families; it's good for the economy and it's good for Australia. Around 180,000 families are set to benefit from this change every year. So, whether you're a mum or a dad taking that crucial time out, your job and your retirement just shouldn't suffer. This move empowers working parents, allowing them more time at home without losing out in their later years. For women, who most often bear the most caring responsibilities, this will help close the gender super gap. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7149" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Legislation Amendment (Safety and Other Measures) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, I'm going to share some of the statements that First Nations people gave during the rushed half-day hearing into the government's bill to allow gas companies to bypass our environmental laws. The inquiry heard from members of the Torres Strait 8, Daniel and Kabay, who said the following:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our connection to the country doesn't stop at the water's edge … Our oceans have fed us, are home to our totems and are central to our culture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are only here to comment on schedule 2 part 2 of the bill. We believe these provisions should be withdrawn. Consultation with traditional owners must be done properly. We have a right to a voice about what happens in our sea country.</para></quote>
<para>Dr Jack Pascoe said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is not a process that we believe is consistent with free, prior and informed consent. We question why this bill is being brought now, while the EPBC reforms are being consulted on and whilst DISR are seeking feedback on consultation requirements for offshore petroleum and greenhouse gas storage regulatory approvals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our songlines are sacred to us. They have been passed on to us through lore, generation to generation, for the sustainability and longevity of all life on Earth. It is our collective responsibility to pass them on to our children intact.</para></quote>
<para>Therese, Mr Pirrawayingi and Antonia from the Tiwi Islands said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For us Tiwi people, our ties to sea country are so important to the survival of our connection to our cultural and spiritual beliefs, which non-Indigenous people may not understand or comprehend … We will always be part of the sea environment and the land where our ancestors lived, where they are buried and where they practised our ancient culture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When we use your law to stand up for ourselves and win, you want to close that gap so you can keep ignoring us …</para></quote>
<para>Finally, Raeleen Cooper, traditional custodian of Murujuga, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is shameful and disgraceful that this government is using a bill designed to protect workers after injuries and deaths at Woodside's Burrup Hub to wipe out environmental approvals.</para></quote>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Relations: Australia and the United States of America</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Say what you like about Donald Trump; if his assessment of Kevin Rudd is any indication, the man is an excellent judge of character. Trump, when asked overnight about Australia's ambassador to the United States, described the former Labor Prime Minister as 'a little bit nasty'. While he's not wrong, just ask a few members of the Labor Party. Treasurer Jim Chalmers once described Kevin Rudd as having a dysfunctional leadership style and a demeaning attitude towards others. Former minister Kristina Keneally called him 'a psychopathic narcissist'. One-time Labor health minister Nicola Roxon said that Rudd was 'a bastard'—that's a quote—'who deserve to be booted from office'. Even the Obama administration regarded Kevin Rudd as—I quote again—'an abrasive, impulsive control freak'.</para>
<para>Donald Trump pointed out overnight that, if he won the election in November, it would be difficult for Australia's ambassador to the US to remain in Washington. That is obviously stating the obvious. Rudd has described Trump as 'nuts' and the 'most disruptive president in history'. All of this begs the question: why did Prime Minister Albanese appoint Kevin Rudd as our US ambassador in the first place? Why did he do it? Maybe the Prime Minister sent Kevin 07 to America because it was as far away as he could get him from here.</para>
<para>Our ambassador to our major ally—what is he? He's a man who is disliked by some in the Labor Party at home and distrusted by our allies abroad. It's clear that we have a dud as an ambassador to the United States. Does that surprise any of you? He is, after all, a former Labor prime minister. Trump, 2024: that's what I say.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cyclone Megan</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning I received a briefing from the National Emergency Management Agency regarding Cyclone Megan, currently impacting the Northern Territory's north-east. While the classification has been downgraded to a tropical low, the situation in the Northern Territory remains a serious and dangerous one for many in remote communities, and flooding is a significant threat throughout the area. Because of how much rain the region has received during this wet season, it does not take much for a situation to take a devastating turn. Towns along the river, such as Borroloola, face the threat of floods. I encourage other inland communities, such as Pigeon Hole and Daguragu, to remain vigilant and to do their best to stay up to date with the latest from emergency services. I know that many in the area are having trouble getting in touch with emergency services. I invite those people to contact my office for any assistance that we can provide.</para>
<para>Emergency services in the area are, of course, doing their very best. I commend them on their efforts so far. I also want to thank them for their continued work. I'd also like to thank the NEMA team for their work and for keeping me informed of the circumstances that many remote Territorians are currently facing. I do hope that all Territorians remain safe during this time. I also urge Territorians not to take any unnecessary risks and know that there are many that are ready to help when they can.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Launceston City Deal</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you gave me hundreds of millions of dollars to go out and complete a five-year project, you'd expect me to keep you updated on it regularly. After all, it's your money. That's the expectation we have when governments spend taxpayers' money. With the Albanese government being big on transparency, you'd think that would be the case. There used to be an annual report published about the Launceston City Deal. It would tell you about all the projects that are currently happening and where they're up to.</para>
<para>Since Labor came into government, we haven't seen any reports about the Launceston City Deal, so I asked where they were. I had to ask a few times before I got an answer, though. It turns out there weren't any. Labor decided to stop publishing the reports when they came into government. When was that publicised? It's a complete lack of basic transparency—something that even the Morrison government was able to uphold. How can the people of Launceston be confident that the Albanese government is delivering on the remaining projects. They're the ones paying the price for this cloak-and-dagger approach. The Launceston City Council had to shell out an additional $6 million because the Albert Hall redevelopment went over time and the budget blew out. They promised $20 million for the northern Launceston cadet facility, and that could be lost because bureaucrats have gone around in circles arguing for years.</para>
<para>That's just the tip of the iceberg. There have been some great projects delivered under the Launceston City Deal, but there are some projects which we have no clue about in terms of where they're at, and we don't know when the community can expect them to be completed. With this latest revelation about no reports and no transparency, it seems like the Albanese Labor government is determined to make sure we don't find out.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As First Peoples of this country, we know what it's like to have your children ripped away by a system that tries to erase you; this is genocide. Genocide is also what is happening in East Turkestan. Currently over three million Uighurs are in detention without being charged, or with false and illegal charges. These centres are modern day concentration camps aimed at destroying the cultural connection of Uighurs and to fully assimilate them into Chinese culture and society.</para>
<para>Genocide is the worst crime of humanity. People think it is in the past and unimaginable but it is very real and it is happening now. We need to stand up against genocide always and everywhere, and I stand with Tibetans and Uighurs to do so. I stood today outside in solidarity with Tibet and East Turkestan while the foreign minister was meeting with the Chinese foreign minister Wang Yi and is not strong enough—or too weak, in fact—to call out the human cost of that genocidal regime. We need to call out genocide everywhere, including the actions of the Chinese government.</para>
<para>Tibetan children are being forced into boarding schools run by the Chinese Communist Party, separated from their religion, families, culture and traditions. The aim is to assimilate and fully disconnect them from their people and culture—sound familiar? Around one million children out of just six million Tibetans are forcibly separated from their families. I do hope our foreign affairs minister took it seriously and called out genocide in her meeting today. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Small Business</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to give voice to the concerns of small-business owners in my home state of Victoria. Everywhere I go, the messages are the same: it is getting tougher and tougher for small-business owners to keep their doors open. At the business roundtable hosted by our candidate in Higgins, Katie Allen, local business owners told us that the spiralling costs of inventory and overheads combined with lower levels of discretionary spending are making it harder and harder for them to stay profitable.</para>
<para>When I joined our candidate for Isaacs, Anthony Richardson, in Dandenong recently, we visited a company called the ABEC Group, a successful local manufacturer who has been chosen to supply components for the Hunter Class frigate program—fantastic for Victoria. But like many Australian businesses, particularly small manufacturing businesses, they are being hit with skyrocketing energy costs and are caught up in obstructive government red tape.</para>
<para>When I met with the Springvale Asian Business Association out in Hotham, the overwhelming concern they had was their inability to get staff. A woman named Toni, who owns and operates a childcare centre, said that her centre is only running at 60 per cent capacity due to labour shortages. Small-business owners don't ask for much. They just want the opportunity to get ahead through their own determination and enterprise. But under Labor, unaffordable energy prices, endless red tape, labour shortages and labour costs are putting the pressure on. It is this government's responsibility to lift those burdens that are currently weighing down our local job creators and enable Australian entrepreneurship to once again thrive. Instead, Labor has failed Australian small businesses right at a time when they need an economic plan to specifically address the cost of doing business. This is a cost-of-doing-business crisis. The Liberal Party knows that small business is very much the backbone of our economy, and that is why we will always stand up to support small business to invest, grow, employ and drive productivity to bring prices down.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Road Safety</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The problem of driver fatigue is one of the contributing factors in many fatalities on our roads. A well-timed 20-minute power nap could literally save your life and the lives of your loved ones. Driving when tired poses a significant threat to every road user on the road—drivers, riders, passengers and pedestrians. The consequences of driving when fatigued can be fatal. That is why it is important to take a nap as soon as you feel tired and as soon as it is safe to do so.</para>
<para>Your body needs to refill its energy stores quickly. Most of us could use a burst of energy like this in our day. One in three adults don't get enough sleep. That ends up being quite a big sleep deficit on our roads. Power naps can help improve your reaction time, your focus and your concentration, all critical inputs to everyday lives but especially important when we are driving. So when you are driving and you feel tired, pull over. Make sure you are in a safe place with good airflow. Switch off your engine, set your alarm and close your eyes. And like all habits, practice makes perfect.</para>
<para>As headspace reminds us, it will take time to perfect the power nap for you and your routine but it is worth practising and perfecting. Remember, we all want to get to our destination, and we all want to get there safely and in one piece. A well-timed 20-minute power nap could be the difference between you getting there a bit late and not getting there at all. The message is simple: we want people to recognise the signs of fatigue and pull over as soon as they can. Stop, revive, survive.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The allotted time for senators' statements has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wong, Senator Hon. Penny</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I wish to note that, since Senator Wong was last present for a question time, a couple of significant events have occurred. On 6 March, Senator Wong became the longest serving female cabinet minister in Australian history, overtaking her fellow South Australian cabinet minister, former senator Amanda Vanstone. I place on record congratulations for this milestone. It's a milestone not only for Senator Wong but, of course, for Australian women. Whilst we congratulate her on the milestone, we also hope that it is one that is overtaken many times in the future, perhaps by some of my colleagues behind me! I also note that last Saturday, 16 March, Senator Wong and her long-time partner, Sophie, wed, and we place on record our congratulations to Penny and Sophie and wish them every happiness in their lives.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>on indulgence—I express my thanks to Senator Birmingham, the opposition and all for those good wishes. In relation to the first point raised, I want to place on record my thanks to Amanda Vanstone, because I would not have known that milestone had been passed had she not contacted me and written a story about it. That was very sweet of her, and I appreciate that very much.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>45</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>United States of America</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Niceties aside, my question is to the Minister for Trade and Tourism, Senator Farrell. During question time on Monday, Senator Farrell made comments in response to a question from Senator Cox. He subsequently withdrew the comments and, this morning, apologised for the comments. The minister, also during question time on Monday—it was a busy one for the minister in terms of such statements—made another controversial statement, unnecessarily and erroneously remarking that he 'was not sure the United States is our most trusted ally'. To date the minister has made no public statement to clarify these remarks, despite clarifying his other controversial statements from question time on Monday. Will he now take this opportunity to correct the record and apologise for those comments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his question. If I ever do make a mistake in this place—it doesn't happen very often, I have to say—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Twice in one day!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But on the odd occasions that I do, Senator McKenzie, I am always happy to own up to mistakes that I made. In reference to the first part of your question, Senator Birmingham, I did this morning—as I had done on the Monday afternoon—go and talk to Senator Cox and indicate to her that I did not intend to make the comment in the way in which it was understood. I quickly spoke to her about it to apologise, and to any other person in the chamber who may have felt aggrieved by my comments. I repeated that today publicly on the record.</para>
<para>In terms of the other comments I made on Monday, I am a little bit puzzled by the obsession—as I would almost call it—by Senator Birmingham about the issues of the closeness of our allies. In this troubling time, when we see wars right around the world, we need very many close allies. Of course the United States are amongst our closest— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister remarked during his state visit to the United States last year:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I regard the relationship … as second to none of the relationships that I have around the world or indeed domestically, for that matter … it's a relationship of trust …</para></quote>
<para>Minister, you declined the opportunity to set the record straight. Are you deliberately setting about contradicting the Prime Minister when you voluntarily choose to talk down the closeness of our relationship with the US, or are you just being careless?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his first supplementary question. As I say, Senator Birmingham does seem to have somewhat of an obsession with this particular issue. I'm on all fours with the Prime Minister. We work as a team, whether it's the foreign minister, the Prime Minister or, for that matter, the defence minister. In this government, we work as a team. We have consistent policies, whether they are towards the United States, New Zealand or, for that matter, China. We're going to continue to do that. What we as a government have done over the last almost two years now is to—<inline font-style="italic"> (Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under the Five Eyes agreement, Australia and the US share the most sensitive—the most sensitive—of intelligence secrets with one another. The success of the AUKUS partnership hinges on the United States trusting Australia with their most sensitive defence secrets. Why is the minister unwilling to stand in this chamber and state that the United States is Australia's most trusted ally?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, I repeat that the senator seems somewhat obsessed with this issue. We need, in these troubling times, a whole lot of close allies. Of course, the United States is there. Which government forged the alliance between the United States and Australia? It was the Curtin government. Who has progressed the AUKUS—</para>
<para class="italic">Opposition senators interjecting —</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. I can barely hear the minister because of the loud interjections. Thank you, Senator Cash. I'm calling the Senate to order over the loud interjections from my left.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm pointing out, Senator Birmingham, that you've picked one country in the Five Eyes, but, of course, the Five Eyes consists of the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. We need all of these countries—<inline font-style="italic"> (Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Interest Rates</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. I refer to the independent Reserve Bank's decision to leave interest rates unchanged at 4.35 per cent—a relief for 3.3 million Australians with a mortgage. In a statement released following the decision, the RBA board confirmed that inflation continues to moderate, and the task of returning inflation to sustainable levels is its highest priority. What is the Albanese Labor government's response to the decision taken by the independent RBA board yesterday?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Sheldon for the question and his focus on cost-of-living pressures and how we can alleviate those pressures on Australian households. It's great to get a question like that—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know. Imagine—an issue like that in this place! The independent Reserve Bank met yesterday, as Senator Sheldon said, and kept rates on hold at 4.35 per cent.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can't hear you, Senator McKim, other than a loud kind of rabble in the corner. Interest rates have been on hold now for four months, which is welcome news, particularly for mortgagees who have been feeling the brunt of those interest rate increases over the last 18 months or so—which, of course, started under the former government when inflation, in a quarterly sense, was at its highest.</para>
<para>The board's statement was clear: that inflation continues to moderate in line with their forecasts but returning inflation to the target band is and remains the priority. Managing the inflation challenge in the economy remains a key priority for the Albanese government as well. What the decision yesterday shows is that good progress is being made in the fight against inflation. It has come off significantly since its peak in 2022, and I think demonstrates that the work we're doing on the fiscal side in supporting the work that the bank has been doing in trying to better balance demand and supply across the economy.</para>
<para>When you look at what we've been able to do across the budget—the first surplus in 15 years, which is very important in terms of managing inflation. We've turned a $78 billion deficit into a $22 billion surplus, and at the same time we've been able to do that we've been able to make important investments to alleviate and reduce some of the pressure people have been feeling on their household budgets, whether it be energy bill relief— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, your first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The RBA's decision to leave interest rates on hold this month will help Australian households dealing with cost-of-living pressures. The minister has said previously that the Albanese Labor government is working hand in hand with the independent Reserve Bank. How is the government's economic and budget strategy tackling inflation and how is the government's approach delivering relief for Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sure Senator McKim will get his opportunity later. The approach the government has taken is to make sure that we are not increasing pressure on inflation and that we are reducing the pressure on inflation across the economy, but that we are able to provide households and Australians with cost-of-living relief. We've seen from ABS data where our policies have directly reduced CPI, whether it be in our rent assistance or our energy bill relief, and that is important in helping this fight against inflation. We've had other areas where we've made targeted investments—for example, in making medicines cheaper, in supporting families with childcare costs, and with our housing plans to increase the supply of housing across Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, your second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's clear that the Albanese Labor government is focused on working for all Australians in strengthening the economy and tackling inflation. Why is the upcoming May budget an important opportunity to continue delivering the investments our economy needs while fighting inflation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Like our first two budgets, the May budget will be responsible, affordable and suited to the economic circumstances of the time. Our economic and budget strategy revolves around the three key areas of providing cost-of-living relief without adding to inflation, repairing our budget and the supply chains that we've seen, in particular, over the last couple of years, and driving our growth agenda—our economic reform agenda—to drive the future economy.</para>
<para>The centrepiece of the budget will be those tax cuts that have passed the parliament. They are a very important and very significant investment to make sure that people are keeping more of what they earn, and that will be a key part of the budget. Those measures will flow from 1 July. We will do whatever else we can responsibly, within the budget parameters, to support Australian families. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Senator Watt. The Australian Federal Police confirmed in Senate estimates last night that 152 former detainees have now been released into the community. Minister, how many of them are currently wearing electronic monitoring devices?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Paterson. I can only assume, given that, I presume, you were at Senate estimates last night with the AFP, that you would have asked them that question. They are obviously in a better position than any minister of the government to provide that level of detail. We have said that we have confidence—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Paterson</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam President, on a point of order of direct relevance, the AFP said they couldn't answer that question, which is why I'm asking the responsible minister to answer that question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, I'm sure you're aware that has now gone into the area of debating. The minister is being directly relevant to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have consistently said that we have complete confidence in the Community Protection Board, which was established by this government and is comprised of former and serving police and other national security officials, to provide advice to government on how this particular cohort should be treated and who should have bracelets and other conditions attached. It's also worth remembering that the reason this situation has arisen is there was a High Court decision that overturned many years of precedent.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Paterson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Paterson</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On direct relevance, it was a tightly worded question. There was no preamble, and it is seeking a factual piece of information. Could you please draw the minister's attention back to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the minister is being relevant. I will remind him that he should address the question and not what others have done in government. But he is being relevant to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm almost certain that the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs and the Minister for Home Affairs have also made public the government's intention to ensure that the Community Protection Board, via the Department of Home Affairs, will soon issue a community protection update containing the sorts of details that Senator Paterson is seeking. This government does support transparency and supports those figures being provided on a regular basis through an orderly process through the Community Protection Board that we have established. We've also made clear that at all times we'll be guided by the protection of Australian people and adherence to the law. We've seen the laughable situation where various Liberal and National party members and senators have demanded that this government ignore the law and disobey rulings of the High Court. This government has no intention of doing so. We will adhere to the law and we will keep the Australian people updated, through that community protection update.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> reported this morning that a convicted rapist who was released into the community, following the NZYQ case, has had his ankle bracelet removed after his lawyers challenged the legal basis of the restrictions imposed on him. How many other rapists are loose in the community without electronic monitoring?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, the decisions the government has made on all of these matters have been informed by the advice of the Community Protection Board. The Community Protection Board comprises former and serving police and other security officials who this government has complete faith in. If Senator Paterson or any of the other interjecting senators want to criticise the government for the way that we've handled this, what they are actually doing is criticising people like former police commissioners who we are relying on for advice about all of these matters. If we want to have trumped-up senators who want to spend their time scaring the Australian community and if we want to rely on their advice rather than that of former police commissioners and people who actually take into account community safety issues each and every day, that's a matter for the opposition. The government is prepared and willing to rely on that advice from high-quality personnel.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs has repeatedly promised that the released detainees are being continuously monitored in the community. Given the government has allowed at least 36 former detainees and at least one rapist to be free in the community without electronic monitoring, how can that possibly be the case?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know it's in the opposition's interest to whip up fear amongst the Australian community, because, by whipping up fear, they just—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Order! Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I say, I know it's in the political interests of the opposition to whip up fear amongst the Australian community because it then distracts attention from the fact that the opposition has absolutely no plan whatsoever for dealing with the cost-of-living pressures that Australians are experiencing. It distracts attention from the fact that the now opposition leader and former home affairs minister presided over—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. I will sit the minister down for as long as the interjections continue. You are disorderly. There are other opportunities during the sitting of the Senate for you to make whatever contributions you like, but right now you are to listen in respectful silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It does distract attention from the fact that the Leader of the Opposition, as the home affairs minister, presided over a corrupt immigration system that has been described as such in a number of reports now—a completely broken system.</para>
<para>On the point about where people are and monitoring, I direct the opposition to the comments from the AFP's Acting Deputy Commissioner Nicholls, who said in Senate estimates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I don't think there's any difficulty in knowing where they are.</para></quote>
<para>So, again, we have the opposition criticising AFP personnel for political gain. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care: Women</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the opportunity to add my congratulations to Senator Wong for her nuptials on the weekend. My question is to Minister Gallagher, representing the health minister. Two weeks ago the government released the gender equality strategy, which said that the government will consider reforms to make access to sexual and reproductive health care easier. We know what reforms are needed because in May last year the Senate tabled the report of the inquiry on universal access to reproductive health care. It had 36 recommendations. The government's response to these recommendations is now seven months overdue. What is the explanation for the government's inaction on women's health?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Waters for the question. I don't accept the proposition that was put at the end of that question. The government has been doing an enormous amount of work through Minister Kearney in the area of women's health, whether it be working through the Women's Health Advisory Council that she established or delivering the endometriosis and pelvic pain clinics that she has been leading. Twenty-two clinics are already open. We are investing in research on women's health. There is the Senate committee report, as you say, which had a number of recommendations, and the government is considering that and finalising its response. I have been working closely with Minister Kearney as she finalises some of her thinking about priorities in women's health.</para>
<para>You'll note that in the national gender equality strategy health was one of the key areas identified. One of the pillars is around a focus on driving gender equality, acknowledging the gendered impact of access to services, including reproductive healthcare services, across the country and some of the differences in access to services that exist depending on where you live. So we are using that report, Senator Waters. We will respond to that report. But it is aligning with a lot of work. It is running alongside a lot of work that the government is doing in the area of women's health.</para>
<para>There was an important announcement this morning by Minister Kearney around midwives and being able to use their full scope of practice. That reform has been around for a long time. We are making moves on that—again, improving access to women's health services. But we will be responding to the report as required.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the Women's Health Summit last Thursday, multiple women's health experts endorsed the inquiry's recommendations to make reproductive health care more affordable and accessible. Will the government commit to implementing the inquiry's recommendations in full?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Waters for the supplementary question. As I said in my first answer, we have the recommendations in the report before us. We are currently considering those recommendations. We accept that there is a lot of support for those recommendations across the community and accept that there were a lot of stakeholders involved in the work to finalise that report. We will respond to it. We take this area, women's health, very seriously. We have a minister essentially dedicated to the work in that space. Every day she is out there either meeting with women's health organisations or announcing a new service that we are implementing, whether it be those pelvic pain clinics, whether it be working with states and territories or whether it be the announcement that the minister made this morning. And we will respond to that report.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When will the government stop making women wait and finally implement the inquiry's recommendations to make reproductive health care more affordable and accessible?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're not making women wait. The work that the government is doing is about improving access to health services for all women—the tripling of the bulk-billing rate, for example. We know that women will be significant beneficiaries of that, if not for themselves then, as the majority primary health carers for children, for their children. All of those decisions we're taking in the budget have gender analysis that underpins them. We understand the impact that a number of them have on women. Honestly, I cannot commend the work of Minister Kearney more. She is an extraordinary minister. She has done more for women's health in 18 months than we saw in the previous decade—by far—and she has more to do. There are those pain clinics she's opening, the research she's doing, the announcement she's made today and the stakeholders she's engaging with. And there will be further announcements as she completes some of that work before her.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, Senator Wong. Can the minister please inform the Senate how the Albanese Labor government's energy plan is stabilising energy prices after a global crisis?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Grogan for her question. It's great to have another question on this side on the cost of living. I've been away for a period of time and I've come back and we're still back where we were, with the Labor government focused on the cost of living and the issues that people are confronted by, trying to make sure that we do all we can to ease the cost of living, and those opposite again trying to whip up fear and division. So some things don't change.</para>
<para>But there was some good news for electricity customers yesterday. The draft default market offer, which is the maximum price that customers can be charged under standard contracts, is stabilising and trending downwards. This comes after the biggest global energy crisis in 50 years. The draft default market offer shows price reductions in most states and territories. There is a reduction of up to 10 per cent for some small businesses—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They don't like it, do they? They don't like the good news. And there is a reduction of more than seven per cent for some households. This is encouraging news, but we know how tough people have been doing it. We know families and business have still been doing it tough, which is why we on this side urgently capped skyrocketing coal and gas prices during the crisis. It's why we on this side ensured there was $3 billion in direct bill relief provided for households and small businesses.</para>
<para>By contrast, what happened? They voted against it. Not only do they not ask questions about the cost of living, but they voted against Labor's plan to help Australians with increasing energy prices, which were increasing in great part not only for global reasons but because those opposite did not have a plan for over 10 years. Mr Dutton has given up on cheaper electricity for Australians. They have no plan and they vote against plans by this government— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's good to hear that those prices are coming down. Noting the recent data suggests Australia's emissions are down, thanks to the increase in renewables, how is the Albanese Labor government supporting Australia's transition, and what impact is this going to have on power prices?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Recent data from the Greenhouse Gas Inventory showed emissions in the last quarter of last year were lower than in the same period of the year prior. In fact, they're 25 per cent below June 2005 levels, the base year for our targets under the Paris Agreement. Australia's renewable surge helped to deliver a 71 per cent decrease in wholesale electricity prices over this period while also driving down emissions. There's been record investment in batteries and large-scale storage, $4.9 billion in new financial commitments and more rooftop solar systems installed across the country. We have more work to do to get more renewables into the system, but the evidence is clear: no matter how much Senator Canavan rails against it, the best way to deliver clean, cheap, reliable, resilient energy is to ensure there is more renewable energy in the system.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, over there, they're off on their nuclear fantasy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please explain to the Senate how the Albanese Labor government has been acting based on what experts have been saying about the importance of renewable energy? To your earlier point, can you also step out for us why nuclear power isn't a sound option for this country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Albanese government's plan is supported by the independent advice of the CSIRO and the Australian Energy Market Operator, and they confirm that the lowest-cost plan for a reliable energy plan is world-leading renewables like solar and wind firmed with batteries, pumped hydro, flexible gas and transmission. That's the way towards reliability and more affordable electricity prices.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, what we have on the other side is Mr Dutton's nuclear fairy tale. We know, and experts have clearly said, that the plan that those opposite are touting will increase bills, will cost taxpayers billions, will risk the reliability of the grid and won't be delivered on time. What a great plan from the people who gave us 22 failed plans in government! They've come up with another failed plan. It's a guaranteed energy reliability crisis. That's what they are providing. They are the party of high prices and less reliability. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator Gallagher. Labor's record immigration is directly responsible for the housing and rental crisis affecting millions of Australians, yet your government has just announced $4 billion to be spent on new housing and maintenance only for Indigenous Australians in the Northern Territory. How does the government justify spending $4 billion on less than 0.3 per cent of the population—approximately 76,000—when you only allocated $10 billion dollars for the rest of Australia with your useless Housing Future Fund, which is more about attention politics than real, meaningful outcomes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's incorrect to say that there is only $10 billion in housing measures across Australia. We have a package of about 17 different policies, which I'm happy to go through, but they add up to over $20 billion worth of investment into housing. We have inherited a housing crisis coming into government. There was no focus on increasing supply under the former government. There was no interest from the Commonwealth government in social and affordable housing. Yes, we also recognise that, at the same time that we make all of those additional investments through programs like the National Housing Accord, the Social Housing Accelerator, the new homes bonus, the Housing Support Program, the work that we're doing with the states and territories on a national homelessness and housing agreement—whether it be through the investments in Housing Australia; whether it be through the increase in Commonwealth rent assistance, which we have provided; whether it's through the Help to Buy scheme, the home guarantee scheme or the extra money we've provided for homelessness funding; all of that is happening at the same time that we are making some additional investments in Northern Territory housing, recognising the particular circumstances that exist there, including poor housing quality, significant overcrowding that's happening in many communities and the fact that housing and providing suitable housing delivers additional benefits. For example, once people have housing, they are able to get work and support their families.</para>
<para>It is an important investment, and we're very pleased to be making that investment, finding room in the budget for that investment at the same time that we, without the support of those opposite in this chamber, are doing what we can across the board in housing more generally.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>History tells us maintenance is often required within three months for these homes being built in remote communities, raising questions about the suitability of this housing. These houses are not looked after and are sometimes destroyed at ongoing costs to taxpayers in the millions. Will the minister please explain how the government justifies building 270 houses in remote areas at the cost of $400 million a year, or about $1.5 million per house, when your useless Housing Australia Future Fund only allocates $83,000 per house? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't accept that the Housing Australia Future Fund is useless. In fact, it is supporting a number of programs now, in conjunction with all of those other programs that I've just outlined, to increase the supply of social and affordable housing more generally and through other programs improve people's ability to get into the housing market to purchase their own home. So I don't accept that at all.</para>
<para>In terms of the commitment into the Northern Territory, the Northern Territory has the highest level of overcrowding in the country. The investment that we've announced is a 10-year commitment. It includes not only the construction of those houses to be built every year—270—but also to fund repairs and maintenance over time. I know, from the work that the Minister for Indigenous Australians is doing with the Minister for Housing and led by the Prime Minister in working with the Northern Territory government, that appropriate building materials and modern and good housing are fundamental to the success of this program.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the minister also please explain how the government is helping to close the gaps by building homes in remote areas away from jobs, education and health facilities and admit that you are not closing the gaps but costing the taxpayers billions of dollars to keep Aboriginal Australians on welfare dependency with no hope for their future?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't accept that at all, Senator Hanson. I just do not accept that and the proposition you put. I thought everyone in this chamber accepted that closing the gap and the work that is being done about closing the gap are a shared commitment across this parliament. We are not making the gains that we would have hoped, and that's why our focus is on jobs, through the work that Minister Burney is leading; our focus is on housing; and it is on health. And it is to make sure that, where First Nations Australians live, particularly in those remote communities, they have adequate and appropriate housing. As I said, all of the evidence shows that, when there is adequate and appropriate housing, it delivers other social benefits as well, whether it be access to education, whether it be access to employment or whether it be around supporting family members who require care. For all of those, housing is fundamental to that. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Oil and Gas Exploration</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, Senator Farrell. Today's <inline font-style="italic">Gas </inline><inline font-style="italic">s</inline><inline font-style="italic">tatement of </inline><inline font-style="italic">o</inline><inline font-style="italic">pportunities</inline> release confirms that the government has not averted the looming supply shortfalls for 2026, and the Gippsland Basin gas wells are rapidly decreasing. Has the government released any new offshore exploration permits since Minister King's press release on 24 August 2022?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McDonald for her question. The fundamental issue that you raise, of course, is the reliability of gas supplies, particularly as they relate to the east coast of Australia. Of course, what happened was that, when we came to government almost two years ago, we discovered that the inaction of the former government over those previous 10 years had left Australia vulnerable to a shortage of available gas. Of course, what we immediately started to do, particularly under Minister Madeleine King, was to set about to ensure that we had a continued reliable supply of gas.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDonald</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Relevance—please draw the minister back to the specific question about new offshore petroleum exploration permits since 2022.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You did talk about the Gippsland and other pieces of information in your question. I will continue to listen to the minister, but I do believe he's being relevant. Minister Farrell.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The reality is that we were left in the worst of possible positions as a result of the inaction of the former government in dealing with the shortage of supply. Unlike the Greens, who'd like to switch off gas today and leave us with a shortfall, this government is determined that gas will be part of the transition to a renewable future. There's no minister in this government that understands that better than Minister King, and she is working to ensure— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We saw earlier this month that Seeley International would be axing 125 Australian jobs, after Sorbent also cut 70 jobs in Victoria, thanks to oppressive Labor anti-gas policies and the resulting instability of gas supply. Will you apologise to those workers, who have lost their jobs because of your mismanaged gas policies?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McDonald for her first supplementary question. It's a sad day when any worker loses their job, and I've had plenty of examples over a great number of years in the union movement of having to deal with people who lose their jobs. There's no worse experience than losing your job. But these circumstances that you're talking about, Senator McDonald, did not occur overnight. Perhaps you didn't hear my answer to your first question, but it was the inaction of the former government in this space that's left us in this situation, and it's a— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the Albanese government change policies to bring in more domestic gas production so that no more Australian jobs will be lost because of gas shortfalls?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't accept the fundamental proposition of that question. We understand—this government understands—and Minister Madeleine King understands better than anyone just how important the reliability of gas is going to be in the transition to net zero. That's why we've had to implement so many policies to make up for the inaction of the former government. And, let me tell you, Senator McDonald, in Madeleine King we have a safe pair of hands. She understands the issues, she understands why it's so important to make that transition and she is going to be delivering for Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Economic Security</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. This month your government announced it would pay superannuation on government-funded paid parental leave. You described the measure as 'an investment in women's economic security'. Not that I need to remind you, but you said in your media release that women's economic security is 'a key feature of our economic plan'. Can you tell me a bit more about why it's so important to invest in improving the retirement savings of women?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Tyrrell for the question. It is an important announcement that we made. We know that women retire with between 22 and 30 per cent less superannuation than men at the point of retirement, and we know that women at retirement age are a significant group that fall into poverty. It's part of the fact that, throughout their careers, paid and as family carers—primarily carers in families—they have either had career breaks or been out of the workforce for long periods of time, and during that time when they've not been earning, when they've been caring, they have not been accumulating superannuation. This works in conjunction with the fact that highly feminised industries have traditionally been less valued and lower paid, so some of the work we're doing in aged care and in the care sectors, including in early childhood education and care, goes to that point. It's part of our economic plan. The point I was making in the media release was that this is one part of our response to driving gender equality and better economic equality for women.</para>
<para>Over time, it's not only become an issue of less money in retirement age; it's also become a point of tension about people feeling that the caring role that women primarily play is not valued across the economy. So that decision addressed both of those points. We know it's not a silver bullet for someone retiring tomorrow, but it will make inroads into the superannuation gender pay gap. At the same time as we're doing that, we have to do a whole range of other work in other areas to make sure women are getting a fair crack at super as well. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As part of the announcement, the Treasurer said that paying super on government payments would mean 'a more dignified and secure retirement for more Australian women'. Given that 90 per cent of recipients of carer payments have no earnings and 70 per cent are women, would you consider paying superannuation on carer payments to also be an investment in women's economic security, which would also mean a more dignified and secure retirement for more Australian women, or is it different for carers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I've been on the record saying there's no shortage of ideas that the government would like to fund, if we had room to do that. I acknowledge that, once we have addressed this anomaly—which is the only workplace entitlement that doesn't have superannuation paid on it—obviously there will be pressure and interest and advocacy around extending arrangements as we are getting in PPL more generally. Yesterday, we extended it to six months. The first question I got at a press conference was: when is it going to be 12 months? So I accept that, when you make inroads into these things, then comes what's next. The government will look at all of these matters. We're working with the Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee. They will have provided their advice to government about the next best opportunity to support and drive women's economic equality.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Paying super on carer payments to a 30-year-old woman would reduce her pension payments by nearly $3, in real terms, for every dollar in super paid. She'll retire with greater economic security and save you money in the process. Genuinely, can you explain to me what the downsides of this proposal are? This helps the budget, this helps carers, and it means nobody will ever have to retire into poverty for the crime of caring for their dying parent in their last year of life.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>One of the recommendations of the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce was to look at the interactions between payments, the tax system, and other policy measures the government provides to support women across their working lives. That includes working in the paid sense and/or working in the unpaid sense. We are looking at that work because we are interested in how all the intersections work together. There can be a disincentive for certain activity based on what it means for other payments—for carers payments and other income support payments as well. We have a long way to go to address some of the gaps that exist. We can't do it all overnight, or in one budget or in one decision. But we are absolutely committed to driving this forward and making sure that women get a better opportunity across the economy.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ukraine</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Special Minister of State, Senator Farrell. I refer to Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine and the impact the war is having on the country, its sovereignty, its people and, of course, its democracy, especially after we've just witnessed a shocking so-called election in Russia. Can the minister tell the Senate how the Albanese Labor government is supporting Ukraine to protect its democracy in the face of Russia's illegal invasion?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her question and her very deep interest in the fate of the brave people of Ukraine. For more than two years, since Russia's illegal and immoral invasion, Australia has continued to strongly support Ukraine's sovereignty and integrity. We stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian community. Recently, along with Senator Birmingham, I was proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with members of the South Australian Ukraine community on the steps of the state parliament.</para>
<para>The reality for Ukrainians is that their country is under attack and elections have had to be deferred. But the Central Election Commission is preparing for the delivery of the first elections after this conflict has ended. Yesterday I was privileged to meet with the chairman of the Central Election Commission, Mr Oleh Didenko, and a member of the Central Election Commission, Mr Sergii Postivyi. The commission has a complex and challenging job in delivering the first election after the war with Russia has ended. The Albanese Labor government is committed to supporting Ukraine in this, a goal that I am confident all members of the Albanese Labor government are completely behind.</para>
<para>Sadly, given the comments of some Liberal senators in this place about Ukraine's fight against Russia, it is clear the same unanimous support does not exist in other parties. However, I am proud to have pledged my support for Ukraine in ensuring that they can again hold fair and safe elections in an effort to restore effective democracy to Ukraine and its people.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that answer, Minister. I do hope all of us here echo your support to the commission to see elections being able to be held in Ukraine. Australia's democracy is strong, and the Australian Electoral Commission does important work with other countries to support democracy internationally. Can the minister also share with the chamber how the Albanese Labor government supports democratic processes internationally?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again I thank Senator Bilyk for her important question. The challenges to Ukraine are apparent, and yesterday's visit was motivated by a high regard for the Australian Electoral Commission and the many staff that run our democracy. The AEC is internationally known for its support of emerging democracies and its close collaboration with partner electorate agencies. This reputation enables the Australian government to include electoral support as a key element of development assistance, including to countries like Fiji, Papua New Guinea and the Republic of the Marshall Islands. The Albanese Labor government believes that Australia has an important role in supporting the development of free and fair democracies, and I'm proud that the AEC plays such a key role in this regard.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that answer. Australians are rightly proud of their electoral system and the strength of our democracy. Can the minister update the Senate on what the Albanese Labor government is doing to make our system even stronger?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her second supplementary question. The Australian electoral system is the envy of the world, but it can and should be strengthened. The Albanese Labor government have been clear that we will legislate reforms in response to the recommendations of the recent Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters inquiry. I'm consulting across the parliament and continue to invite any parliamentarian with an interest in strengthening our democracy to consult with the government on our proposed reforms. Unlike some in this parliament, we intend to progress reforms to strengthen our democracy rather than simply grandstand. It is clear that we must stop billionaires attempting to buy our elections, and I look forward to support across the parliament to achieve this aim.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Citadel Secure Pty Ltd</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Trade and Tourism, Senator Farrell. Official documents obtained under freedom-of-information requests show that the South Australian Minister for Trade and Investment's office approached your office to secure a meeting with local business Citadel Secure and that a meeting was agreed to by your chief of staff. Minister, have you or anyone from your office had meetings with Citadel Secure and/or any of its clients? If so, who attended these meetings and when did they occur?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Liddle, I am very disappointed that you have asked this question, days out from an important by-election in South Australia, where the people of Dunstan are going to have to choose a replacement for the former Premier. This is grubby. This is really, really grubby.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just answer the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, the answer is no. But this is really, really grubby politics. And can I say this, Senator Liddle: this is below you.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, has your office or department been provided with any documents pitching for government funding associated with meeting requests? Has any disclosure of lobbying activities on behalf of Citadel Secure been required?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No. This gets grubbier and grubbier. The absolute answer to this is no. This is not the way I behave in this job. I have tried to lift the standards in this place, and the standards I expect of everybody else I apply to myself. These questions are below you. Senator, this is my advice: don't get involved in this grubby activity that is going on in the Parliament of South Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question was not about seeking your advice. Can you advise the Senate what role Ms Cressida O'Hanlon—then Labor Party staffer, now Labor Party candidate, an associate director of Citadel Secure—played in seeking or securing access to your office? Have you or anyone in your office had any engagement with Ms O'Hanlon regarding Citadel Secure? And was the answer to all of those questions 'no'?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would ask you to take advice from the Clerk as to whether or not a question about a candidate in a state by-election is actually relevant to the minister's portfolio. It really does bell the cat that the opposition is now, days out from a state by-election, seeking to ask a direct personal question about an individual—an individual they were happy to name and were happy to [inaudible] in this place. I would ask you to seek the advice of the Clerk.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Wong. I'll seek the advice of the Clerk. Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on the point of order, the questions were—</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just a moment, Senator Birmingham. Order on my left! Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The questions were directed to Senator Farrell in his capacity as Minister for Trade and Tourism. They were relying upon freedom of information documents which indicate that a meeting with this company had been agreed to by his chief of staff. It is entirely in order for senators to ask ministers questions about meetings they undertake and engagements they may or may not have with individuals seeking or advocating for those meetings or for funding.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will seek the advice of the Clerk. I am advised that the question is in order. Given that the statements have been made, it is also an opportunity for the minister to respond to those statements. Minister Farrell.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I be very, very clear—absolutely crystal clear—that there has been no contact between my office and anybody associated with Citadel Secure, including the very fine candidate for the Labor Party in the seat of Dunstan. I reiterate that these are grubby tactics. They are tactics that you're prepared to use, Senator Liddle, under parliamentary privilege. If you're so confident that something wrong has occurred, make these statements outside of this place. Make them so that Cressida O'Hanlon can defend herself in defamation proceedings, because absolutely nothing you say is true. Say it outside of parliament. If you think this is right, say it outside of parliament.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>United States of America, Immigration Detention, Oil And Gas Exploration</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister for Trade and Tourism (Senator Farrell) and the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (Senator Watt) to questions without notice asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator Birmingham) and Senators Paterson and McDonald today relating to foreign relations, the NZYQ case and offshore gas exploration.</para></quote>
<para>The first question was a question to Senator Farrell. We also just had the last question to Senator Farrell. In the response that he gave just then, you could see a preparedness to maybe react and provide a bit of colour to the debate that we're having here in this place. But when it comes to an issue of his own making, which was the topic of the first question, all we see from Senator Farrell is ducking and weaving. I've got to say I like Senator Farrell. He's from the good side of the Labor Party, if there is such a place. He's a decent fellow and he makes good wine too. I've enjoyed his wine. But I can tell you that I am getting rather sick and tired of coming into this place, seeing questions provided to Senator Farrell and hearing him just waffle around and not treat question time with the seriousness it should be treated with. It is an opportunity for us to come in here, particularly as the opposition and indeed the crossbench, and ask questions of this government and its leaders. Proper answers should be given.</para>
<para>On the issue of Australia's ally—our closest ally—the United States, it should have been very, very easy for Senator Farrell to confirm that, yes indeed, the United States is Australia's greatest, strongest and closest ally. It would have been the easiest thing to do because that has been the long tradition of this country since we fought in the early wars. Since the formation of the very fabric and nature of this country, we have been allies. It would have been very, very easy. But, instead, for whatever reason—we can only surmise what that reason might be—Senator Farrell did his usual ducking and weaving, just fumbling around and winding down the clock and not taking the issue seriously. I have to say it is getting exhausting. It is a shame because Senator Farrell can bring a lot into this place. But when he's put under any kind of pressure, that's the tactic that he plays, and I think he needs to up his game. It's not acceptable, particularly when there's an opportunity to reaffirm the great relationship that we have with our closest ally, the United States.</para>
<para>The other question we had, from Senator McDonald, went to the issue of the supply of gas in the east coast and the issue that environmental approvals are having. This isn't just an issue on the east coast; this is also an issue in my home state of Western Australia. The Chamber of Commerce and Industry of Western Australia estimates that there is $318 billion worth of investment at risk due to the delay in environmental and other approvals. The government is getting in the way of projects that need to occur. The Scarborough gas field can provide 30 years of power not just to Perth but to 10 other cities the size of Perth around the globe. Thirty years of electricity could be providing heat to homes in Seoul and places like Tokyo. They are much larger cities.</para>
<para>There is an opportunity here that is going missing. Western Australia is the powerhouse of the nation. I always like to remind us in this place of that place over there, WA. We generate incredible wealth. We have $318 billion that's being held up, and this government here and the state government of Western Australia need to get their acts together, because Australians and, indeed, the rest of the world are missing out on wonderful opportunities when it comes to supplying good, reliable and cheap power.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In my view, the question from Senator Birmingham to Minister Farrell was completely infantile. I think it's perfectly right, from the point of view of the Minister for Trade and Tourism, to point out that our trade relationship with the United States might be a bit more complicated than simply being able to refer to the US as being our most trusted ally. It is, in this context. And we have the ability to walk and chew gum.</para>
<para>Are you feeling insecure in your relationship with the US, Senator Birmingham? It seems so. But we aren't, and the US aren't. Are you somehow worried, Senator Birmingham, that Senator Farrell's answer somehow implies that some other nation has come between us? You tend to equate our important diplomatic relationships to schoolyard antics like the particular sayings by text message: 'You're dropped,' and 'Will you go around with me?' or, 'Will you not go around with me?' These are our diplomatic relationships. Our diplomatic relationships are sophisticated, reliable and strong and have never ever had such significant standing in the eyes of the Australian public or in the strength of our relationships with other countries than since Minister Wong became our foreign minister.</para>
<para>The amount of work that has been done to rehabilitate our relationships with the US, China and a wide range of other countries, indicates how infantile your question actually is. We have to build strong, trusted relationships with a wide variety of countries. I would not expect the trade minister to give an answer in relation to the nature of our relationship with the US and being allies. It's not at all clear to me about whether you were talking in the context of trade, defence or security et cetera. To my mind, I'm quite cognisant of the fact that, yes, while the US is our most significant military ally, they are not always our best friend on trade, but we are secure in our economic relationships with the US. We are secure and robust in our relationships with the US when it does come to trade, despite the fact that we don't always see eye to eye. We are secure in our relationship with the US. Yes, they are our most trusted ally in many respects but that is not an absolutist answer. It is not ever helpful to create the kind of hierarchy in allyship without the level of nuance that our diplomatic relations actually require.</para>
<para>If Senator Birmingham is seriously worried that Minister Farrell was trying to imply that someone had somehow come between us and the US and that we were no longer special friends, on all things at all times, well, that approach that the opposition is taking is absolutely laughable. This government has a mature, reliable relationship, a grown-up relationship. We work as a team—consistent, organised—whether it is with the US, New Zealand or, for that matter, China. It is an approach that we will continue to take now and into the future, especially under the leadership of both Senator Farrell as our Minister for Trade and Minister Wong as our Minister for Foreign Affairs.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have witnessed a few train wrecks in this place in my time but I think that tops the pops. I would suggest to Minister Wong to get the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> of that so that she can get in here quick smart and start walking that back, because we just heard a doubling down on Senator Farrell's gaff over the US. We know it was a gaff because he has basically come in and admitted it. He had to walk it back after his boss said that our most trusted and most important ally is the United States. That is what your boss says. If you work as a team, as we just heard, you might want to back up your boss, because Prime Minister Albanese has been very clear that the US is our most trusted and our most important ally.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Pratt</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did not. I just said—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh my God—for Senator Pratt to come in and double-down and absolutely walk that back as a question is just breathtaking. It is gobsmacking. I was here to take note of answers today and I was actually planning to take note of another pathetic display that we saw by Senator Murray Watt regarding the national security risks and the detainees that are walking around in our community—rapists, murderers. These guys don't even know where they are—one job: keep Australians safe. We have murderers and rapists out wandering in the community and you guys don't even know where they are. It is breathtaking.</para>
<para>To follow on from Senator Pratt, it had to be noted. This part of the day—take note of answers by ministers—we might have to expand to taking note of the contributions of those from the government who have literally just put on display the most extraordinary doubling down of an insult. Perhaps I am a cynic. Perhaps I don't have blind faith in those opposite. That might come as a surprise to some knowing how opaque they are when it comes to any policy.</para>
<para>Labor's new favourite trick—people in the gallery might be interested in this—is they now make people they consult on policy and legislation sign NDAs so that no-one can discuss what they want to roll out in their policy agenda. They don't actually share any legislation beforehand. They just plan to ram it through, usually in a dirty deal with their mates in the Greens. But the fact that they are now asking stakeholders to sign NDAs means we are seeing this government sink to a new level.</para>
<para>Excuse the cynic in me here but do you think perhaps some of these comments might be related to the fact that we have a visitor from China this week? Do you think they might be here going, 'Don't worry, mate'? We have seen them get rid of the antidumping provisions when it comes to wind turbines just today, just as a friendly gesture to China: 'Come and dump all of your wind turbines here. Don't worry about manufacturing any in Australia. You just make them over there and we will take them all. Dump them here. Stuff up the price arrangements any local manufacturing might have.' But they have given the wink and the nudge to China.</para>
<para>Maybe this was what Senator Farrell was aiming towards, saying: 'Don't worry, China. We're not that close to the US.' Well, here's a little bit of a reality check for you: we are close to the US; they are our most trusted ally. And as part of the AUKUS agreement, as part of the Five Eyes agreement, there is information shared between our two nations at the most sensitive level. To play—it's not even playing politics; it's just plain stupidity. The plain stupidity of these comments beggars belief.</para>
<para>It beggars believe that any of you sitting on those government benches should ever be anywhere near the national security of this country, because you clearly do not prioritise it. You don't prioritise the safety of Australian citizens. Clare O'Neil, the minister, is out there saying how she wishes all of these people were back in detention, but she hasn't brought forward a new piece of legislation. They haven't asked for the court to provide any supervision orders or any extra orders. Nothing. No protection orders. They haven't asked for anything. The incompetence is beyond laughable. It is beyond comprehension. It is only in good faith that the Australian electorate will soon start to see through this incompetent government, which is now putting at risk one of our strongest, most important and longstanding relationships. If Donald Trump wins the presidency, we could be without an ambassador in the US after what's happened today. Credentials could be revoked. What an unbelievable precedent you lot are setting.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It seems that the opposition wants us to ignore the High Court. It wants us to ignore the advice of our agencies. But on this side of the chamber we have confidence in the agencies that are working hard to keep Australians safe. We have confidence in them. What we don't have confidence in is the ability of the opposition to rise above the politics of fear and division in this nation. What we don't have confidence in is the ability of Mr Dutton to rise above rank political opportunism when he sees it. On this side of the chamber, we do have confidence in our law enforcement agencies and our security agencies. We have confidence that the Australian people know what is important to them today and every day, even if the opposition don't know that. And what the Australian people can have confidence in is how our economic security is tracking in this country right now, and how our plans are delivering for them today.</para>
<para>Just think about the state of this country when we took office. Wages had been flat for a decade under those opposite. Inflation was on the march. Interest rates were already rising. Real wages were falling off a cliff under those opposite. And the Morrison government was hiding increases to the benchmark electricity price that we've been talking about today. At the same time there were eye-watering deficits of $80 billion and $50 billion as far as the eye could see, year on year on year. This is what the Australian people were concerned about when we came into office.</para>
<para>What a difference 18 months of a Labor government makes. What a difference it makes to put some people in charge who are actually focused on the issues that Australians care about. What a difference it makes to put some decent and strong economic managers back in charge—because today we have the fastest wage growth in 20 years in this country. Today inflation is moderating, and we know that from the RBA decision and their commentary yesterday. Interest rates have now been on hold for four months, with the RBA recognising that inflation is moderating and that downward pressure on electricity prices is important to that as well. Today we are seeing real wages growing again. Today the budget is back in shape, with the first surplus in 15 years. And, in just a few months, every single one of 13.6 million Australian taxpayers will get a tax cut. These are the things that Australians care about. These are the issues that matter to them.</para>
<para>What also matters to them is that energy prices are going down too. The default market offer, which you had to hide from the Australian people as you were leaving office, is now trending in the right direction: it is trending down. We have lower electricity prices, and that is so welcome. There is so much more work to do, and we will continue to do that difficult work.</para>
<para>I know that the opposition wanted to come in here today and ask questions that distract from all of that good work that we have been doing to get our economic security back on track. They have come in here today and asked questions about state issues, like gas in Victoria. Do we want to talk about the Victorian government? I'm happy to talk about my home state, if you think it's appropriate to ask about the Victorian government in question time. We know that the Victorian government is focused on energy security, and we know that they are focused on jobs in renewable energy—in generation, in transmission and in manufacturing. There have been 59,000 jobs created in renewable energy in Victoria. Prices are going down in Victoria by six to seven per cent. That is all part of their plan, supported by our plan, to actually bring electricity prices down and improve our energy security in this country.</para>
<para>We can listen to those opposite talking about fear and division, we can listen to their questions about state issues that they bring into this chamber of the parliament or we can listen to what the Australian people are concerned about. What they are concerned about is having a good job and the money that they're going to get back from our tax cuts on 1 July. What they are concerned about is earning more and keeping more of what they earn under the Albanese Labor government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of answers to questions from the opposition. I'm not often lost for words, but I can tell you that I almost am today. I don't know where to begin, actually: Senator Farrell's inability to answer Senator Birmingham's questions, Senator Pratt's responses or Senator Walsh's response. It is incredibly confusing. What I will note is that, while Senator Farrell did not answer Senator Birmingham's questions, he talked a lot about the consistent policies of this government. If there is one thing that this government has not been, it is consistent. There is constant chopping and changing. There is telling the community one thing, saying you're going to do a second thing and then backtracking and delivering a third thing. It's absolutely confusing. Senator Farrell didn't even answer the question that Senator Birmingham asked around Five Eyes. He actually just went on to say who was included in Five Eyes. He didn't answer the question; he just gave some background narrative. It's very confusing.</para>
<para>Senator Pratt went on to note that she would not expect a trade minister to discuss the nature of a relationship with a trading partner or with the US. But the problem is that Senator Farrell did. He made the statement that he is not sure that the United States is our most trusted ally. So, in one breath, we have somebody making a statement and in the next breath, in the defence of that statement, somebody says you wouldn't expect somebody to say something, when they just did. This is in reference to—in Senator Pratt 's own words—a sophisticated, reliable and strong relationship and an important diplomatic relationship, and Senator Farrell has said he is not sure the United States is our most trusted ally. It's very disappointing.</para>
<para>In relation to the questions around the NZYQ case, I note that Senator Walsh said that those of us on this side of the House want to ignore the High Court or ignore the advice of agencies. No, we don't. We just want this government to be prepared for the outcomes of any High Court decision or for the advice of agencies and not to be caught out without being ready to make decisions based on those decisions or outcomes. That is the problem: this government wasn't ready. This government didn't act when it should have to protect Australians, and now it is backtracking and suggesting that we want to ignore the High Court, when that is absolutely not the case.</para>
<para>Finally, we all know that this government has not been a decent and strong economic manager.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice I asked today relating to housing.</para></quote>
<para>I asked a question today of the minister with regard to the $4 billion to be spent on housing in the Northern Territory for 0.3 per cent of the population—that's about 76,000 Aboriginal settlers in the Northern Territory—compared to the $10 billion that has been allocated for the rest of Australia in their housing fund. The minister did reply and said there were other programs and work to the value of $20 billion for the other 26 million-plus Australians who are living here. When you compare that, $1½ million is going to be spent on a house in the Northern Territory. It has been known that these houses are destroyed within a matter of months. Either they are burnt or floorboards are ripped up. They are absolutely destroyed, and you put them in remote areas. It's not good for these people to be living so remotely. I know they want the cultural way of life, but they still have their welfare handouts and they still have their clothing. They're not living by their traditional way of life. It's just ridiculous.</para>
<para>I've been to a lot of these remote communities. The housing is absolutely disgusting. They do not look after it. It's completely paid for by taxpayers all the time, to rebuild. We pay maintenance costs up to what you might pay for a house to be built in any other part of Australia. And you're putting them in remote areas. There is no future for these kids. A lot of these kids don't even go to school. There are no jobs. There is absolutely nothing. There's no future for these people at all, yet you continue to build these houses. You don't do it for other Australians. Why do you do it for Indigenous Australians to keep them in poverty and in the conditions that they are in now?</para>
<para>If you want to live the traditional way of life, great. I have no problem with that. But if you want to live by the Aussie way of life, in your houses with your welfare, then I think you should come into the lifestyle of other Australians.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care: Women</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by Senator Gallagher to a question without notice I asked today relating to reproductive health care.</para></quote>
<para>I asked why the government is taking so long to respond to the Senate inquiry into universal access to reproductive health care. That inquiry produced a consensus report with 36 recommendations that every political party that was involved, and every party in this chamber, agreed upon; and still it's 10 months later and we haven't heard boo from the government. I asked the minister: when are we going to get a response? When can the women of this country—who are desperate to have affordable and timely access to reproductive health care, whether it be terminations or maternity care or anything in between—expect a response? I am so disappointed I did not get a time frame. The minister says there will be one. Great—there has to be. That's what is required. But it was meant to be seven months ago. You're meant to take three months, not to take 10 and still say it's under consideration.</para>
<para>There were great and meaty recommendations, but, with entire departments and a minister who I know is committed to this area dedicated to this, what is taking so long? I didn't get a response from the minister on why there is the delay. I know that so many women and experts that work in this area will be disappointed that there seems to be continuing delay and yet no action and no explanation for it. I note that in the women's health summit last Thursday many of the expert presenters, who spoke so eloquently and articulated the problems in access to health care—reproductive health care in particular—endorsed these recommendations. They want them to happen. Women deserve affordable and accessible reproductive health care.</para>
<para>I also asked the government: if you won't tell us when you're going to respond, can you at least give a commitment that you will implement these recommendations—these consensus recommendations, which were not as strong as the Greens would have liked in all respects but which would generally improve access to the health care that we all pay Medicare and taxes for and that we all deserve as citizens in a wealthy nation? Again, the minister did not give the commitment that the 36 recommendations of this consensus report would be acted upon.</para>
<para>There are still so many barriers—financial, physical and geographical—in accessing abortion and contraception and sexual health care and maternity services right across the country. We know the problem is even worse in rural and regional areas. We know there are workforce shortage issues that are further compounding this problem. This issue is urgent. We need a response. In particular, on terminations, given that the Labor Party has ruled out returning to their 2019 policy, which said that if you are a hospital getting public funding you need to provide the full range of reproductive health services—given they have resiled from that formerly strong and good position—we really do need action on the recommendation that says that you will fund alternative pathways so that people can get accessible terminations when they want one.</para>
<para>There has been no action on changing those funding arrangements with private hospitals, and women are still not able to get terminations when they need them. We hear stories of women having to travel hundreds of kilometres—assuming they can even afford the travel costs—to get a termination for an unwanted pregnancy. It is absolutely unbelievable that, in 2024, pregnant women are still facing that level of inaccessibility to basic health care. It needs to be fixed immediately. We also heard that there are newer birth control pills, newer contraceptives, that don't have as many side effects as the old ones that are on the PBS. But these newer ones that are better are not on the PBS, so you have to have squillions of dollars to get them, so most people can't. That is when they are even available; sometimes we have supply and import issues. Again, there needs to be action on that.</para>
<para>The committee recommended that we look at expanding the scope of practice for midwives to include, for example, the insertion of LARCs, long-acting reversible contraceptives. That should be on the agenda for a minister that has a strong background in these areas. There was also a recommendation that the midwife reforms proposed in the MBS review finally be dusted off and implemented. Again, it has been, what, six years now, since those decent recommendations. They should be acted upon; instead they are ignored. The government is making women wait for a response to this inquiry, and women deserve better. They're making you wait for super on PPL, they're making you wait for longer PPL and they're making you wait for universal access to reproductive health care. Why are women having to wait when a whole lot of other budget priorities don't have to wait?</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Education</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>60</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order, I call on Minister Watt to provide an explanation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My apologies for the inconvenience, colleagues, and thank you for providing quorum. In response to Senate motion No. 490: order for the production of documents, review of the HELP ATO payments system, I advise the Senate that my colleague the Minister for Education is maintaining his claim of public interest immunity in relation to these documents.</para>
<para>Order for the production of documents No. 374 requests all correspondence, directions, notes, briefs and other communications received by or sent to the Minister for Education or the Department of Education concerning the Minister for Education's review of the HELP ATO payments system. I'm advised by the minister that he responded to that order, and enclose documents, with the exception of documents related to cabinet deliberations which were prepared for the dominant purpose of briefing a minister on a cabinet submission and to ensure cabinet remains an appropriate forum for informed consideration of policy advice. This is consistent with longstanding practices under previous governments.</para>
<para>As the Senate is aware, the minister released the <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline><inline font-style="italic">Universities Accord </inline><inline font-style="italic">final report</inline> on 23 February and indicated the government is considering its response to this. The documents requested and not already provided by the minister are documents that will inform and be the subject of cabinet deliberations as part of the government's response to the accord's final report and were prepared for the dominant purpose of briefing a minister on a cabinet submission related to this.</para>
<para>Disclosure of these documents is not in the public interest and is expected to reveal cabinet deliberations. It is in the public interest to preserve the confidentiality of cabinet deliberations to ensure cabinet remains an appropriate forum for informed consideration of policy advice. Release of these documents could set a precedent and compromise the ability to confidentially brief the Australian government in its cabinet deliberations and may materially impact the functioning of government as confidentiality enables frank advice and fully informed decision-making.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the statement.</para></quote>
<para>The Albanese government was elected on a promise of transparency and accountability, and the response from the minister is reflecting anything but. Prime Minister Albanese and his ministers continue to show absolute contempt for the rules of the parliament, including the rules of the Senate and Senate estimates, defying orders to produce documents as required.</para>
<para>Minister Watt has just contradicted Senator Chisholm and the Minister for Education in his lame excuse as to why these documents will not be tabled. The bottom line is that these documents are not protected by a claim of public interest immunity. They do not fall within the exemption—and, Madam President, and I even wrote to you about this matter, such was my concern. The minister has made a claim of public interest immunity in relation to documents related to cabinet deliberations. This does not meet the test.</para>
<para>The Minister for Education is falsely suggesting that these documents are documents essentially concerning cabinet deliberations. This in fact conflicts with the letter that he wrote to Senator Chisholm on 7 December 2023, when he said, 'A public interest immunity claim may be made in relation to information and documents which were prepared for the dominant purpose of briefing a minister on a cabinet submission.' This is not what we've just heard from Minister Watt, where he said they were for the dominant purpose which reflected deliberations of cabinet and in relation to deliberations of cabinet. So we are hearing weasel words from this government, and we will not cop it. The three million Australians with a student debt will not cop it. The fact is that the three million Australians with a HELP student loan, most of which are HECS loans, have suffered an 11 per cent increase in their debt due to Labor's sky-high inflation in just two years, an average increase in their student loan of around $2,700 over two years. It was 3.9 per cent in 2022 and a shocking 7.1 per cent in 2023, with another big rise on the way this June. Escalating student debt is even impacting on Australians' capacity to borrow money to buy a home. With so many students struggling to put food on the table, enduring Labor's cost-of-living crisis, this is appalling.</para>
<para>The minister promised to review the antiquated ATO HECS payment scheme. We sought documents in relation to that review. This review has disappeared into thin air. Yes, he has made some statements following the accord final report, but what about the review? At the moment, Australians are being indexed, effectively, on payments they have already made because the ATO does not account for repayments in real time. If someone has a debt of $20,000 and pays off $5,000 during the year, they are still indexed on the original $20,000, which is wrong, which is unfair and which is unjust. Nine months after we sought these documents in Senate estimates, we are still seeing this government fail to comply with Senate orders. We will not cop the dodgy PII claims that this government is making. The Senate has not accepted this PII claim. I again say to the Minister for Education: we require these documents. You are required under the rules of the Senate to provide these documents. We have received advice from the Clerk in relation to the scope of a PII claim, and this PII claim does not cut the mustard.</para>
<para>So, President, we are very disappointed in the government's failure to be transparent, in the government's failure to comply with the rules of the Senate and in the government's contempt—absolute shocking contempt—for three million Australians with a student debt which is absolutely escalating like there is no tomorrow under this government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The documents that we are debating today and that the government is refusing to produce relate to student debt. Student debt is not just a number on a balance sheet. Rising student debt has a huge human cost. The mental, emotional and financial toll that it takes on people is immense. During the cost-of-living crisis, people are going without meals, sleeping in cars and being unable to pay rent. They cannot pay health costs, and, on top of all of that, they are being crushed under the heavy weight of student debt, which should not be there in the first place and is rising faster than they can pay it off.</para>
<para>Students come out of university and TAFE saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of student debt that can take them decades to pay off, if not a lifetime. This is cruel, unsustainable and utterly unfair. Student debt is a crisis that demands urgent attention, yet both the Liberal-National coalition and the Labor Party have remained shamefully complicit in the perpetuation of this crisis. Ultimately, student debt needs to be wiped entirely, and the Greens have been very clear on this.</para>
<para>As a step towards this, we have been pushing for indexation on study loans to be entirely scrapped. Of course, the timing of the indexation on HELP loans should be changed so that compulsory repayments are accounted for before indexation is implied, which has now also been recommended by the Universities Accord report. But I'm not going to mince my words here: where was Senator Henderson when Labor and the coalition teamed up to recommend rejecting my bill to scrap indexation on student debt, even after the committee inquiry heard heart-wrenching story after heart-wrenching story of people struggling with student debt? That would have given people relief from the record indexation of 7.1 per cent that hit student debts last year. But Labor and the Liberals decided to reject the overwhelming evidence and keep this unfair tax intact.</para>
<para>Where, indeed, was Senator Henderson when the Liberal-National coalition pushed through their punitive Job-ready Graduates scheme, which doubled the fees for many degrees, massively exacerbating the student debt crisis? Where was Senator Henderson when I was urging the coalition government to forgive outstanding debts from the grossly unjust Student Financial Supplement Scheme? The scheme was a rort that targeted low-income and disadvantaged students from the start. To continue to collect SFSS debts two decades on from the abolition of the scheme is simply unconscionable.</para>
<para>But let's not forget the Labor party, who have now been in government for almost two years. Rather than work with the Greens and wind back the Liberal-era policies which have saddled people with more debt and higher fees and cut funding to universities, and these debts take longer and longer to pay off, Labor has failed to address this pressing issue. Empty rhetoric about fixing the system means nothing to people who are struggling to make ends meet and are faced with ever-ballooning student debt. We know that student debt is out of control and the Labor government is refusing to act. It is mind-boggling that people paying back their student debt pay more into government coffers than the tax paid by planet-destroying corporations.</para>
<para>Both major parties are culpable in bringing us to this point. These utterly upside down priorities paint such a vivid picture of the failures of both Labor and the Liberals in addressing the student debt crisis. Under the Albanese government we have seen sky-high indexation rates on student debt, which we have not seen in a decade—11 per cent since June 2022. The clock is ticking. June is fast approaching and three million people will be hit with another avalanche of debt increase. The government knows more pain is coming for the millions of people who are shackled with student debt and it knows that it will hit women and young people and those on lower incomes the hardest, yet they are doing absolutely nothing. This lack of action is shameful, to say the least.</para>
<para>The Labor government must immediately get rid of indexation and raise the minimum repayment income to provide at least some relief, and then wipe all existing student debt. We must tackle this debt crisis. There is not a day to waste. Education is a basic human right. It is not a privilege. That's why the Greens are fighting to wipe all student debt and make university and TAFE free for all.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the chair of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, Senator O'Neill, I give notice of her intention, at the giving of notices on the next day of sitting, to withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No.1 for three sitting days after today, proposing the disallowance of the Migration Amendment (Biosecurity Contravention Regulations) 2023.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the provisions of paragraph (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the Defence Trade Controls Amendment Bill 2024 and the Defence Amendment (Safeguarding Australia's Military Secrets) Bill 2024, allowing them to be considered during this period of sittings.</para></quote>
<para>I also table a statement of reasons justifying the need for the bills to be considered during these sittings and seek leave to have the statements incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The statement</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR INTRODUCTION AND PASSAGE IN THE 2024 AUTUMN SITTINGS</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DEFENCE TRADE CONTROLS AMENDMENT BILL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Purpose of the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill amends the Defence Trade Controls Act 2012 to: regulate the supply of certain military or dual-use goods and technology on the Defence and Strategic Goods List (DSGL) from Australia to certain foreign persons both within and outside of Australia; regulate the provision of services in relation to DSGL Part 1 military goods or technology to foreign persons or entities; and remove the requirement to obtain a permit for supplies of certain DSGL goods and technology and the provision of certain DSGL services to the United Kingdom or the United States.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for Urgency</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill requires urgent consideration and passage to realise benefits and opportunities to Australia under AUKUS and meet US Congressional certification timeframes relating to Australia's export control regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">STATEMENT OF REASONS FOR INTRODUCTION AND PASSAGE IN THE 2024 AUTUMN SITTINGS</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DEFENCE AMENDMENT (SAFEGUARDING AUSTRALIA'S MILITARY SECRETS) BILL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Purpose of the Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill amends the Defence Act 1903 to establish a framework to regulate the work that certain former defence staff members (foreign work restricted individuals) can perform without a foreign work authorisation; and the training that Australian citizens and permanent residents, other than foreign restricted individuals, may provide without a foreign work authorisation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for Urgency</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill requires urgent consideration and passage to realise benefits and opportunities to Australia under AUKUS and meet US Congressional certification timeframes relating to Australia's export control regime.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>63</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Chisholm, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Consideration of the business before the Senate be interrupted at the specified time, but not so as to interrupt a senator speaking, to enable senators to make their first speeches (of approximately 20 minutes), as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Wednesday, 20 March 2024, at 5 pm—Senator Sharma; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Monday, 25 March 2024, at 6 pm—Senator Ghosh.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) On Tuesday, 26 March 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consideration of the business before the Senate be interrupted at 6 pm, but not so as to interrupt a senator speaking, to enable senators to make valedictory statements relating to Senator Rice; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the question for the adjournment be proposed at the conclusion of the valedictory statements, or at 7.30 pm, whichever is earlier.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Days and Hours of Meeting</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Chisholm, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate not meet on Thursday, 28 March 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition and Consumer (Divestiture Powers) Bill 2024</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1413" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition and Consumer (Divestiture Powers) Bill 2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>64</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: Competition and Consumer (Divestiture Powers) Bill 2024, A Bill for an Act to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Competition and Consumer Act 2010</inline>, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>64</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum related to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table the explanatory memorandum. I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Greens' Competition and Consumer Amendment (Divestiture Powers) Bill 2024 gives the Court the power, under an application by the Australian Competition and Consumer Agency, to order a company to reduce their power or share of the market by divesting assets if they are found to have misused their market power under section 46 of the <inline font-style="italic">Competition and Consumer Act 2010</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In effect, this Bill gives the Courts and competition regulators the power—where misuse of market power has occurred—to break up firms right across the economy, including, but not limited to the supermarket duopoly: Coles and Woolworths.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some examples of a divestment order that a Court could make would be:</para></quote>
<list>forcing the sale of a suite of specific supermarkets or liquor stores held by Coles or Woolworths which would then have to be sold to another supermarket competitor like IGA or to an international operator that wants to enter Australia.</list>
<list>increase competition within their supply chain, for example by requiring the sale of certain home brand products.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Monopolies and oligopolies are bad for consumers, bad for workers, bad for suppliers and bad for the economy more broadly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When a corporation has an excessive share of the market they often abuse their power by:</para></quote>
<list>hiking prices for consumers well above what they need to be to cover costs.</list>
<list>forcing suppliers to reduce their prices but pocketing the difference instead of passing it on to consumers.</list>
<list>squeezing shop floor workers with increasingly poor wages and conditions, while the executives and major shareholders line their pockets with millions in excess profits.</list>
<list>stifling innovation and competition by acquiring emerging start-ups or competitors, or blocking or frustrating entry into a market.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Market concentration impedes competition and is a massive drain on the economy as a whole. It reduces productivity growth, slows innovation, impacts the quality of products available to consumers and leads to higher inflation through excessive prices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Evidence shows the more market share a corporation has, the easier it is for them to maintain and increase their power. Instead of spending their time focusing on improving productivity they use their excessive power to aggressively block competitors and influence key decision makers to weaken any attempts at regulation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Australia, our economy is getting much less competitive as top firms across the economy hold a high and growing share of the market. Recent Treasury analysis shows that the market power of Australia's largest firms has increased in the last two decades. This has coincided with higher price markups and sluggish productivity. Average firm mark-ups in Australia increased by around 6 per cent between 2004 and 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's high level of market concentration across the economy has contributed to the inflationary cycle Australians are currently experiencing. At Estimates in February this year, Reserve Bank Governor, Michelle Bullock agreed that some firms are using a lack of competition and the cover of high inflation to hike prices above what would be required to meet increases in their input costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ms Bullock joins growing consensus among economists, including at the OECD, the IMF, the European Central Bank, the Bank of England, the Federal Reserve, former ACCC Chair Allan Fels and the Australia Institute that corporations are price gouging to boost their own profits, in a cost of living crisis, which is making inflation worse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Increased markups and price gouging represents millions more profits for corporations while everyday people increasingly struggle to afford to pay for essential products and services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Every day that this Parliament refuses to act to reign in the power of big corporations, more and more people skip meals, fall behind on their rent and mortgage payments, and delay vital medical appointments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nowhere is the issue of market concentration more stark than in Australia's supermarket sector. In the 1950s Woolworths and Coles had around 10 per cent market share, and in the 1970s they had 34 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today, the duopoly dominate the sector, with 65 per cent market share. According to former ACCC Chair, Professor Allan Fels, Australia's grocery sector is amongst the most concentrated in the world. It is more concentrated than comparator countries, including the UK, Germany and the United States.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At its most recent full year results, Coles posted $1.1 billion full-year profit, while Woolworths lifted its annual profit to $1.6 billion. Professor Fels has found that high market concentration has resulted in supermarket profits that are higher than they would be in a competitive market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Take for example, the UK. It has 6 major retailers, who had operating margins in the 2022-23 financial year, ranging from 1 to 4 per cent. The top two retailers have 40 per cent market share. Not perfect, but significantly better than in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Contrast this with the profits of Australia's duopoly. In 2023, Woolworths reported an operating margin of 6 per cent and Coles reported 4.8 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Interestingly, the average operating margins of the major grocery retailers in the UK fell at the same time that the market share of discounters, Aldi and Lidl, was increasing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's clear that greater competition reduces supermarket profits and brings down prices for consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When the Prime Minister was asked about divestiture powers a few weeks ago, he dismissed the idea as 'Soviet Union' policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, this is not a controversial or radical idea. The United States of America has had divestiture powers for over 130 years, since 1890, where they've been used effectively to reduce the market power of companies in a range of industries, including the break-up of the AT&T telephone monopoly in the 1980s.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The UK also has divestiture powers. The competition agencies of Ireland, Italy and the Netherlands have all recently required the divestment of supermarket assets in order to increase local competition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Gina Cass-Gotlieb, the Chair of the ACCC—Australia's national competition regulator—has agreed that if divestiture powers were introduced, they could increase competition in the supermarket sector and under economic analysis, this would bring down the cost of grocery prices.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Council of Trade Unions, led by Professor Allan Fels recommended Australia should introduce a divestiture law to allow big firms to be broken up where the Court determines a firm has broken competition law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Parliament should support this Bill as a critical part of the toolkit to stop corporations using their market power to gouge prices while raking in billions of dollars in profits.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Parliament should support the interests of people over corporate profits and greed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Services Australia</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Henderson, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for the production of documents no. 479, agreed to by the Senate on 28 February 2024, regarding application processing data from Services Australia has not been complied with,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Minister for Government Services stated that the order seeks 'not a document that is in existence, but one that would need to be created', and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Minister for Government Services further stated that a 'request for information of this kind in this way is appropriate for a question on notice';</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rejects the grounds that the Minister for Government Services has provided for not complying with the order, noting that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) it is a well-established principle that orders for the production of documents may require the creation and production of documents by the person or body having the information to compile the documents, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) refusing to comply with the order on the grounds that the information could be obtained via a question on notice or at Senate estimates is not an acceptable basis to withhold information from the Senate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires the Minister for Government Services to comply with the order by no later than midday on Monday, 25 March 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Finance</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Finance, by no later than midday on Monday, 25 March 2024, a copy of the February 2024 assurance review into the Research Supply Icebreaker Project, the existence of which was confirmed in a response to a question on notice following the Environment and Communications References Committee's hearing for its inquiry into Australian Antarctic Division funding with Department of Finance officials on 28 February 2024.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>66</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 8 April 2024, the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all documents, advice and correspondence between the First Nations Heritage Protection Alliance Leadership Working Group; the Joint Working Group; the Implementation Working Group; the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water; and the Minister's office relating to the First Nations cultural heritage reforms being undertaken by the First Nations Heritage Protection Alliance and the Australian Government since 1 August 2022; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all meeting notes, briefing notes, meeting invite lists and minutes from consultation sessions that occurred for the purposes of stage 2 consultations for the First Nations cultural heritage reforms since 1 August 2022.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of the Treasury</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on 5 April 2024, all written or digital correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, meeting agendas or minutes, or other records of interaction, in relation to the national competition reform or the 7 March 2024 meeting in Sydney at which federal, state and territory representatives discussed national competition reform, since 1 January 2023, between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Treasurer or his office and state and territory Treasurers or their offices; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office and state and territory Treasurers or their offices.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Climate Change, Energy, Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table, by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 10 am on Thursday, 28 March 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) any ministerial submissions and briefings provided by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, Environment and Water to the Minister, relating to advice on the potential extinction of the Maugean skate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the ministerial brief MS23-002605 and its attachments; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) any ministerial submissions and briefings provided by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, Environment and Water to the Minister relating to requests for reconsideration of decision EPBC 2012/6406 from 16 November 2023.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Community Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report by 7 October 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The practice and governance surrounding the prescription of puberty blockers to children in Australia, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the adequacy of the evidence base supporting the safety and clinical effectiveness of puberty blockers as a treatment option for children experiencing gender dysphoria, including an examination of international developments and decisions, such as the move by United Kingdom (UK) health authorities to ban the routine prescription of puberty blockers to young teenagers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the transparency and accessibility of outcome data from Australian children's hospitals and gender services on the long-term impacts of puberty blockers on children, including but not limited to brain development, bone mineral density, future fertility and sexual function, as well as mental health outcomes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the consistency of Australia's approach to the prescription of puberty blockers with international best practices and the evolving global understanding of their risks and benefits, including a comparison with policies in the UK, the Netherlands, Norway, Finland, and other countries that have recently revisited their stance on gender-affirming care;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the processes and criteria used by Australian health services, including the Royal Children's Hospital Melbourne and others, in deciding to initiate puberty blocker treatment, with an emphasis on the exploration of psychological complexities and the consideration of alternative treatments;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the role of professional consensus and the development of national standards of care in the absence of long-term outcome data, and the impact of these standards on clinical governance and decision-making processes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the views and experiences of patients, families, clinicians, and other stakeholders directly affected by the prescription of puberty blockers, including the adequacy of informed consent processes and the support provided to patients and families;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the response of Australian medical bodies and health departments to international critiques and recommendations regarding puberty blockers and gender-affirming care;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) the impact of social transition as the beginning of the child gender-affirmation process, including pressures on educators and health professionals to affirm preferred pronouns and identities, with a focus on the approach's potential harm and the need for reconsideration; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any related matters.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1, standing in the name of Senator Hanson, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:00]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sharma, D. N.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para><inline font-style="italic">(In division)</inline> It's an absolute disgrace that they are not—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, shut up, woman.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's an absolute disgrace.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're a disgrace.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe—hold the count—I'm going to ask you to withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Thorpe. Please recommence the count.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about her?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, please come to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What about her, though? How come a racist—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Just a moment. Hold the count. Senator Hanson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like that remark withdrawn, please.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will ask the senator to withdraw that remark. Senator Thorpe, please withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw that remark.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. And I would ask all senators that the remainder of the count be done in silence.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Charitable Organisations: Deductible Gift Recipient Status</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Dean Smith, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than midday on 27 March 2024, all written or digital correspondence, briefing notes, file notes, or other records of interaction since 1 January 2023, in relation to changes to the deductible gift recipient status of school building funds, or any other changes to the arrangements generally, between:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Treasurer or his office and the Department of the Treasury;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Treasurer or his office and the Productivity Commission;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office and the Department of the Treasury;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office and the Productivity Commission; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the Treasurer or his office and the Assistant Minister for Competition, Charities and Treasury or his office.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Productivity Commission is an independent body. As an independent body, it is currently undertaking an inquiry into philanthropy. The inquiry is currently scheduled to report by 11 May 2024. This inquiry has included the release of a draft report for public consultation purposes. The commission has not yet provided its report to government. After it has provided it, it will be considered by the government. The process is ongoing, and the order for the production of documents risks undermining that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 496 moved by Senator Askew at the request of Senator Dean Smith be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:08]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>40</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>17</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement: Submarines</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim has submitted a proposal under standing order 75, which has been circulated, as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today the Australian Greens propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government must not continue to spend upwards of $360 billion in public funds on the increasingly unlikely chance we might get AUKUS nuclear submarines, while abandoning our sovereignty and destabilising the region."</para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency: That the Albanese government must not continue to spend upwards of $360 billion in public funds on the increasingly unlikely chance we might get AUKUS nuclear submarines, while abandoning our sovereignty and destabilising the region.</para></quote>
<para>AUKUS is sinking, and, if the ALP and the coalition continue down their war party path, we are all going to sink with it. A year ago this week, Prime Minister Albanese was over in San Diego coming up with his so-called optimal pathway for AUKUS after agreeing to the Morrison government's election stunt with a no-doc briefing—a two-hour no-doc briefing, courtesy of the former Morrison government. Who would sign Australia up to a $360 billion disaster zone with a no-doc briefing from former prime minister Scott Morrison? Who would do that? It turns out that the then opposition leader, now Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, took Morrison at his word. You can't make this stuff up.</para>
<para>But we are now looking at the first anniversary of this optimal pathway of the AUKUS deal, and on any rational view it should be the last, because, despite the coalition and the ALP's blanket denial, the US will only provide Australia with any of their Virginia class nuclear submarines if they have got enough for themselves. If you want to know the first rule of dealing with United States, assume that they are always going to put their self-interest ahead of ours or any other part of the planet. That's a good starting point.</para>
<para>The fact is that the Albanese government think that they are going to get three to five Virginia class nuclear submarines from the United States in the early 2030s when, at the exact same time, because of decisions that were made by the US in the 1990s, the US are going to have the lowest number of Attack class nuclear subs—significantly less than they need, they say, for their own purposes. In order to deal with that value of production, the US need to be knocking out of the US shipyards 2.3 of these Virginia class submarines a year to have enough submarines by the 2030s to supply the US Navy's needs and have a few left over to supply Australia with these multibillion dollar nuclear submarines.</para>
<para>But what is actually happening? The US Navy, in their most recent budget, have budgeted not for 2.3 or even for two Virginia class submarines. The US Navy have acknowledged reality. They've budgeted for the production of only one Virginia class nuclear submarine in the coming 12 months—just one. They've done that because they know that there isn't the capacity in US dockyards and shipyards to produce more than one. To make enough nuclear submarines for Australia, they need to be knocking out 2.3; they're knocking out one. That's some awkward AUKUS maths there, isn't it. In the early 2030s, the US is going to be asked by Australia, 'Please, sir, can we have some nuclear submarines?' What's the US President going to say? They'll say: 'We haven't got enough for our own purposes. There's no way we're going to be giving them to Australia.'</para>
<para>Hidden in plain sight in the legislation that's been approved for AUKUS in the US Congress is a kill switch that says, if there aren't enough for the US, there's no way in hell they'll give any to Australia. That is despite the Albanese government giving $4.7 billion of Australian public money to the US for US jobs and investment in US shipbuilding. This will include, by the way, investment for the US to build their next intercontinental ballistic class of nuclear submarine, the Columbia class.</para>
<para>The question is: how many billions more will Australia sink into the disaster zone that is the AUKUS submarine deal, pillar I? How many years will be wasted before we finally jump on an off-ramp? The overwhelming majority of Australians don't want us tied unquestionably to the US alliance. They don't want us to spend billions of dollars chasing unicorns. Let's end the deal now, while we can. Let's save some dignity and save some sovereignty.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to address this matter of urgency moved by Senator Shoebridge. I'd like to address the points raised—briefly, to start with, and then I will go into some detail. One of the points is that this is abandoning our sovereignty. Having worked in Defence for many years—in fact, I ran our flight test centre—I'm aware of the fact that for many of our systems we have a deep reliance on the original equipment manufacturer, from issues to do with software to spiral upgrade programs. For example, the Joint Strike Fighter would be almost impossible for us to operate in the absence of the combined logistics support system. This no more decreases or throws away our sovereignty than many of the systems that we are purchasing, because the cost to develop and completely own a system here in Australia would absorb more of the budget than Australians would be prepared to fund.</para>
<para>The second point relates to stability in the region. One of the key reasons you have a strong defence force is in fact for deterrence, so that we keep the peace. History tells us that, if you want to deter an authoritarian regime from taking action, you need to: (a) have a strong capability; and (b) demonstrate clear intent that you are prepared to stand up and defend what is in your nation's and your people's interests. The brief that was put together by the Congressional Research Service that actually informed the members of the US Congress to support and vote for the NDAA, which authorises the AUKUS deal, highlights that selling the Virginia class boats to Australia would substantially enhance deterrence of potential Chinese aggression, particularly around North Asia and the Taiwan Strait in our region. So, far from destabilising the region, this would actually enhance stability in our region.</para>
<para>Why is that important? This is the third point I'll come to. Senator Shoebridge's motion talks about $360 billion. That sounds like a lot of money, but you've got to remember that, when Defence cost these projects, they look at the out dollars over a period, and 30 years is the period involved here. That's about 0.15 per cent of GDP looking over those 30 years. To put that in context—$360 billion over those 30 years—we spend around $220 billion each year just on the welfare budget. Looking at the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare figures, on average that's around 10 per cent of GDP. So it's 10 per cent of GDP versus 0.15 per cent of GDP.</para>
<para>Why is stability important? If we look at analysis by David Uren, one of Australia's premier economists, into the impact of tensions and conflict in the Taiwan Strait, he highlights that the detriment to the Australian economy would be a long-term decrease of six percent of GDP and a reduction of 14 per cent of per capita income even if Australia wasn't involved in a conflict but just if the conflict occurred. This is an investment of 0.15 per cent of GDP so that we maintain deterrence and the status quo to avoid conflict. That is something that will keep Australia's economy healthy to the tune of nearly six per cent of GDP. When you look at that cost figure, you've got to understand that it is actually a sensible long-term decision to have a strong military capability that acts as a deterrent.</para>
<para>To the final point of Senator McKim's motion, and as Senator Shoebridge described, there are bottlenecks in the American system at the moment. In fact, the US has decided that, as part of managing their capability, they need to invest. They're looking to invest some $11 billion to increase the capacity at the two shipyards, General Dynamics and Huntington Ingalls Industries, that make the Virginia. But they've realised that, if they just keep placing orders and there's already a backlog, then they're committing funds to something that cannot be delivered. The detailed analysis of that decision is that they've accepted the reality that, yes, there is a backlog. So they've said that they won't put the funding in against another vessel, because the reality is that it won't suddenly pop out, but they will invest $11 billion over a period to actually lift the capacity of those shipyards to reach the 2.33 that Senator Shoebridge referred to.</para>
<para>Far from being a waste of money, this is an investment in the stability of our region and in our sovereign capability in partnership with like-minded nations to preserve the interests of Australia and our people.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak on the urgency motion moved by Senator McKim. The AUKUS trilateral security alliance is a fundamental partnership between Australia, the United States and the United Kingdom. As the government has made very clear time and time again, AUKUS is the biggest single investment in Australia's defence capability in our history. It's a key part of the federal government's national security policy and one that protects our nation and its interests.</para>
<para>We're facing the most challenging strategic circumstances since World War II. The federal government's approach is to build, maintain and operate conventionally armed nuclear-powered submarines to ensure that our Defence Force is equipped and prepared to confront these challenges. Increasing our military capability is critical, and, put simply, AUKUS is great for our alliance and great for many jobs particularly in the state of South Australia but also right across the country. It will strengthen the ability of each government to support security and defence interests, deepening our ties and providing an added level of deterrence against threats in our region. It allows for deeper information sharing and technology sharing and supports our country's industrial requirements. It allows for integration across security and defence related science, industrial bases and supply chains, and it allows for more jobs across the country, with South Australia remaining the home of Australia's next generation submarines. In fact, the AUKUS plan for Australia will create around 20,000 direct jobs over the next 30 years across industries, the Australian Defence Force and the Australian Public Service.</para>
<para>Nuclear powered submarines will be an Australian sovereign capability, commanded by the Royal Australian Navy and sustained by Australians in Australian shipyards. It's fair to say that the government completely rejects this motion, because the government has not wavered from its commitment to protecting Australian sovereignty. In fact, acquiring nuclear powered submarines strengthens our sovereignty, ensuring that our self-reliance will continue and Australia will remain standing on its own two feet.</para>
<para>The government has already made significant progress in the past year needed to deliver under AUKUS. I want to run through it this afternoon. We passed the first tranche of enabling legislation back in June last year. We established the Australian Submarine Agency. We introduced four more tranches of legislation to support AUKUS pillars 1 and 2. We supported two cohorts of Royal Australian Navy personnel graduating from the US Nuclear Power School. We finalised the land exchange with South Australia to acquire land for the submarine construction yard in Osborne and began early works on the site. We launched the South Australia defence industry workforce and skills report and we allocated over 4,000 additional Commonwealth-supported places to universities across Australia to build the skills for our build.</para>
<para>Importantly, the government is making practical progress under AUKUS pillars to advance capability, including 12 new initiatives announced by AUKUS defence ministers last December. This will ensure collaboration on the development of critical security capabilities, including undersea capabilities, quantum capabilities, artificial intelligence and autonomy, advanced cyber and electronic warfare. Further to that, the government is funding AUKUS pillars 1 and 2 to ensure we back in AUKUS with action.</para>
<para>It is important to remind the Senate that the former government wasted the better part of nine years and left Australia with an acute risk of capability gap and no plan to fix it. The Albanese government fundamentally believes Australia's interests lie in shaping a region that is peaceful, stable and prosperous, where no country dominates and no country is dominated. We are committed to maintaining peace, regional development, positive relationships and stability across our region, and to a peaceful and nuclear-weapons-free Pacific.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is using all elements of our national power to shape the world in our interests and to shape it for the better. The government has demonstrated an unwavering commitment to the AUKUS alliance, and sovereignty is at the heart of national security. Protecting this will remain our priority.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian community expects that Australia and its government will have an independent foreign policy. We do not expect—we explicitly reject—and we do not want Australia's foreign policy to be set or dictated to us by the United States of America. The AUKUS agreement puts Australia at the behest of the United States for decades to come. When America says 'jump', Australia, under AUKUS, in order to get the submarines promised, will now have to say 'how high?' every single time. This concept is made more terrifying, more perverse, sickening, fear-inducing, by the idea that the ringmaster in years to come may well once again be Donald J Trump, the current presumptive Republican nominee.</para>
<para>Not only does the submarine deal come with a—let's say it politely—hefty $368 billion price tag, it comes with the expectation of Australia's absolute loyalty and compliance with the foreign policy goals of the United States. Despite this government doing all that it can, regardless of the desire of the Australian community, to stay in absolute lockstep with the United States, Australia is already receiving the thin end of the American stick, committing to spend $368 billion of public funds to purchase these vessels yet receiving no time line for the submarines that will saddle our community. In fact, we are sitting in a situation where the US commitments so early in the project are already not being held up.</para>
<para>The US have made very clear that their submarine capability is not on track to deliver the surplus vessels needed to supply Australia, and yet we continue to plough ahead with this policy, led—and I do mean 'led' in the very broadest sense of the term—by a government that finds itself without the spine to admit the reality of the AUKUS political pact: that it was a press conference concocted by Biden, who needed it because of the disastrous withdrawal in Afghanistan; by Johnson, who needed it to distract from domestic political pressures; and by Scott Morrison, who wanted literally anything else on the public agenda than the crumbling record of his own government.</para>
<para>Those three men got together, crafted AUKUS with their select teams and announced it to the world. Morrison believed in his heart of hearts that Labor wouldn't be foolish enough to go for it and therefore would create a point of difference ahead of the election. Well, he put too much store in the ALP. They folded in 24 hours, supported the concept of AUKUS and have signed our WA communities up to a legislative framework that could see us host not only tonne after tonne of high-level nuclear waste in Western Australia but also the nuclear waste of the United Kingdom and of the United States. The Greens will continue to oppose the AUKUS political deal every vote, every rally and every time because we know that peace, nonviolence and a foreign policy guided by these principles are the actual solutions and priorities demanded by the Australian public.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>AUKUS is not about defending Australia; it's about projecting force in the South China Sea and tying us to the warmaking ambitions of the United States and the UK. This is a dangerous move that makes us less safe. The AUKUS deal compromises Australia's sovereignty. Accessing these nuclear submarines comes at the price of having to uncritically follow the US into its next war. AUKUS only leaves Australians worse off. Under this deal, we are giving up our ability to exercise independent foreign policy, risking destabilising the region and losing upwards of $360 billion in public money to spend on unnecessary nuclear submarines.</para>
<para>Labor has a long, rousing rhetoric of helping the disadvantaged, yet time and time again we see them locking in the policies of the right-wing Liberal Party and ignoring the calls of people living in poverty. With the obscene amount of money that Labor is spending on this rotten deal, we could actually be helping Australians struggling to survive in this cost-of-living crisis by finally bringing dental care and mental health into Medicare, boosting public and genuinely affordable housing and raising the rate of all income support to above the poverty line.</para>
<para>Right now millions of people on Centrelink payments have to make impossible decisions between putting food on the table, shelter and their medicines because their payments have not kept up with the cost of living. But, instead of giving these people the support they need and providing them with an actual safety net as well as $360 billion in submarines, today Labor has decided to congratulate itself for the 96c a day increase to JobSeeker and other payments as a result of indexation. JobSeeker and related payments are routinely increased through indexation. It's not a new process. It's absolutely astounding that the Labor government is taking credit for this automatic, already-legislated indexation increase. It's even more incomprehensible that Labor is trying to claim that today's indexation will help those doing it tough make ends meet. A measly 96c a day doesn't even get payments close to the poverty line, let alone make it enough to live on.</para>
<para>Poverty is a political choice, and Labor is refusing to listen to the calls of unemployment advocates, social service organisations and their very own Economic Inclusion Advisory Committee to substantially raise the rate of income support. Instead, Labor are opting for inadequate, piecemeal changes. Instead, Labor chose recently to leave people on income support and everyone earning less than $18,000 a year out of their cost-of-living tax measures, instead choosing to give a tax cut of $4,500 a year to us politicians and to the ultrawealthy. Labor, your choices have real and devastating consequences.</para>
<para>In response to today's indexation, the Australian Council of Social Service put out a media release calling on the government to urgently raise the rate of income support. They shared the heartbreaking story of former truck driver Cliff, who relies on JobSeeker after suffering a series of injuries. He and his wife have been forced to move into a caravan and skip showers to save money. Cliff told ACOSS:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"We have no social life, we don't go out …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'When we go into town to Bendigo, we go to the swimming pool and have a shower. We're on tank water in the caravan, and we need to conserve that and buy as little water as possible.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Half of our meals are mince and anything else is the cheapest cut. We'll go into the supermarket late in the day if we want biscuits and buy what's on special."</para></quote>
<para>In the last 15 minutes, one of my Facebook friends has shared a post with me from someone they know who's homeless in Devonport. The post said: 'I have woken with high pain levels and a tent bending in the wind. If you know the owner of a vacant building, please introduce us.' Yet our government, the Albanese government that profess to be leaving no-one behind, are spending the obscene amount of more than $360 billion on AUKUS deals and giving tax cuts to the ultrawealthy, but doing nothing to help Cliff and the millions of other Australians living in poverty.</para>
<para>Labor must urgently raise the rate of all income support payments above the poverty line to $88 a day. They must abolish all punitive elements of our social security system. And they must abandon AUKUS to properly fund essential public services.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion in the name of Senator McKim be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:41] <br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator O'Sullivan) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>12</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>22</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Salmon Industry</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Senate will consider the proposal from Senator Duniam, which has also been circulated as shown on the Dynamic Red, as follows:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for Environment Minister Plibersek to urgently guarantee that the economic and social importance of, and the hundreds of direct and indirect jobs that depend on, Tasmania's salmon industry are not in any way negatively impacted by any decision taken by the Government under the <inline font-style="italic">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999</inline>"<inline font-style="italic">.</inline></para></quote>
<para>Is consideration of the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clocks in line with the informal arrangements made by the whips.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Duniam I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for Environment Minister Plibersek to urgently guarantee that the economic and social importance of, and the hundreds of direct and indirect jobs that depend on, Tasmania's salmon industry are not in any way negatively impacted by any decision taken by the Government under the <inline font-style="italic">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>I want to thank my Tasmanian Liberal colleague Senator Duniam for bringing this urgency motion before the Senate today, because this is an urgent situation which needs to be immediately addressed for the sake of an industry, the hundreds of jobs that it supports and the communities which would be adversely impacted by any decision made by this government under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999. Tasmania's salmon industry is an important contributor to the state's economy and plays a significant role on the West Coast of Tasmania by stimulating economic activity and supporting local jobs. But the industry and the jobs that it supports both directly and indirectly are currently under threat from this Labor government and environmental activists. The Minister for the Environment and Water, Tanya Plibersek, has been threatening to pause, or even shut down, that industry—an industry that provides immense economic and social contributions to Strahan, the West Coast and Tasmania as a whole.</para>
<para>The review into the Tasmanian salmon industry's operations in Macquarie Harbour—initiated by the environment minister and three activist groups: the Environmental Defenders Office, the Bob Brown Foundation and the Australia Institute—has created extreme uncertainty not only for those Tasmanians working directly in the salmon industry but for the West Coast community as a whole. We know that Labor and the Greens are joined at the hip, and I'm sure that we will see that on show once again this weekend at the Tasmanian state election—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Polley</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is all about the Tasmanian state election!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>where Labor and the Greens have a very strong track record, Senator Polley, of teaming up to trash regional industries. The minister's initiation of this review shows just how far the minister is willing to go to appease environmental activist groups and the green elements which we know exist within her own party.</para>
<para>Let's get one thing straight: it is perfectly reasonable to hold serious concern about the future of the maugean skate. The view that protection and conservation of endangered species is important isn't a view which is exclusively held by environmental activists. It's not even a view which is exclusively held by the Greens. It is a view that is shared across industry, across the community and across the political spectrum. But, unfortunately, under this minister, that same level of concern is not shared for the hundreds of jobs directly and indirectly supported by the salmon industry—a sustainable and environmentally regulated industry, I might add.</para>
<para>All of these issues—environmental, economic and social—should be examined as a whole. But, unfortunately, there are some—namely, those groups who are part of the minister's review—who hold an ideological opposition to the salmon industry, devoid of any scientific basis or any shred of concern for communities. A case in point is that those opposed to salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour seem to skim over the fact that the maugean skate was first discovered in Tasmania in Port Davey and Bathurst Harbour and has since completely disappeared from that part of the state, even though there is no form of aquaculture or industrial activity in those areas.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, those working in the salmon industry on the West Coast have been left in the lurch by this government. The minister's decisions and actions all appear to be based on what she thinks green activists and inner-city voters might like best. The Prime Minister himself desperately attempted to provide reassurance to West Coast communities on a fleeting trip to the island state in January, where he tried to convince salmon workers that he is pro jobs and was backing in the industry—except he didn't even make it out of Hobart, which is hundreds of kilometres away from Strahan, where the jobs and the communities under threat from the Prime Minister's government are actually located. But at least the Prime Minister actually managed to make it to Tasmania. As far as we know, the environment minister, Ms Plibersek, hasn't even visited the relevant area since announcing her review.</para>
<para>Tasmania's salmon industry is an incredibly important contributor to the state's economy, and it plays a significant role on the West Coast of Tasmania by stimulating regional economies and supporting local jobs. But that industry and the jobs that it supports, both directly and indirectly, on Tasmania's West Coast are currently under threat from this Labor government and, as I say, from the environmental activists who are party to this review.</para>
<para>Tasmanians need a prime minister who backs in our regional communities and the industries and the jobs they support. Frankly, they need an environment minister who will do exactly the same thing. But that's not what we're seeing here today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a shameless political stunt from Senator Duniam and those on that side of the chamber. This isn't about trying to protect the maugean skate; this isn't even about protecting jobs or the salmon industry. This is purely about the Tasmanian state election that's coming on Saturday, when they're going to go from being a majority Liberal government to maybe trying to cobble together a minority government with the help of their great mates the Jacqui Lambie Network. We will wait and see, but on the Wednesday before the state election that's what this is all about. Quite clearly, they're concerned about the Labor team, led by the very competent Rebecca White, and how she will become the new leader in Tasmania. We will wait and see about that. But what they are not concerned about is the west coast. They're not concerned about skates. All they're about is scaremongering and trying to raise this issue prior to the state election.</para>
<para>I have a few facts for those opposite. Under the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act, the minister for the environment is required to undertake a reconsideration if there are valid requests. They know that from when they were in government. This process was not initiated by the federal government, but it is required under the national environmental laws passed by the Howard government back in 2000, so this is not the makings of this government.</para>
<para>There was consultation with the public and interested stakeholders from 4 December 2023 to 2 February 2024 about salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour and, in particular, the impacts on the endangered maugean skate. There were over 2,500 submissions received through the public consultation process, and Minister Plibersek is now considering all the relevant comments, together with other information relevant to be reconsidered. Throughout this process, we have sought to ensure that the industry is supported as well as it can be to engage in the consultation, along with any others in this community who have views that they believe should be considered.</para>
<para>Those on this side and those on that side know very well that we have a unity ticket on protecting and supporting the salmon industry and regional jobs, but, then again, it serves their political purposes to raise this issue around the state election. But Minister Watt, as fisheries minister, met with the West Coast Council, industry and community representatives in Strahan. In those discussions, it was very clear that everyone wanted to protect the maugean skate. We want to ensure the conservation and recovery of those skates, but we also understand the importance of—and I've spoken many times in this chamber about this—salmon aquacultural jobs in regional communities and how important that sector is, and we want to protect those jobs.</para>
<para>It's important that all sectors operating in sensitive environments do so in a sustainable and environmentally responsible manner. Our government is committed to supporting the sustainable growth of the Australian fishing and aquacultural sector. The salmon-farming sector is an important contributor to the Tasmanian and Australian economy, providing high-value, healthy seafood for the Australian community and export market. The industry itself recognises that it needs to manage its operations in a sustainable and responsible manner. The salmon industry takes these issues very seriously, which is why it is leading the work to protect the maugean skate.</para>
<para>We are partnering with the industry through the Fisheries Research and Development Corporation on an initiative, worth more than $7 million, to stimulate oxygen levels in Macquarie Harbour. The Australian and Tasmanian governments have established the National Recovery Team for the Maugean Skate to recover skate while minimising community impact. These are the facts that needed to be put on the table—that the Australian government is funding research, including $2.15 million for a captive breeding program and $3.3 million for an oxygen generation trial. With the Tasmanian government and the Blue Economy Cooperative Research Centre, we are working to allow a trial of aquaculture in Commonwealth waters further offshore. These are the facts that are on the record. It's not about scaremongering, and— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We hear a lot about unity tickets in this place—unity tickets between the Australian Labor Party and the LNP opposition. I'll tell you what the only unity ticket running today is: the unity ticket to drive the maugean skate into extinction. That is the unity ticket that this chamber is hearing about today. The toxic salmon-farming industry in Tasmania has wreaked havoc on our natural environment in the Macquarie Harbour, in the D'Entrecasteaux Channel and in multiple other coastlines and waterways in Tasmania. It has poisoned our waterways. It has slaughtered native marine life. It has tarnished Tasmania's brand, and it is driving the maugean skate to extinction.</para>
<para>But according to the Labor and Liberal parties this is all terrific stuff. This is all terrific stuff according to Senator Duniam and Senator Polley, because they're going to rock down to Macquarie Harbour, put on a safety helmet and a hi-vis vest and pretend to be standing up for workers. But what do they do when this industry, which is owned by massive multinational corporations, engages in automation and lays workers off? Absolutely nothing. Their mouths are closed. There is absolute silence from these so-called friends of the workers.</para>
<para>Environment minister Tanya Plibersek has promised no extinctions on her watch—zero extinctions. What she's relying on, as she signs off on the logging of swift parrot habitat—driving into extinction the swifties, the fastest parrot on the planet—and as she drives the maugean skate into extinction by allowing the toxic salmon industry to keep poisoning Macquarie Harbour, is the fact that we will put a few maugean skates into some aquariums somewhere and hope they survive and put a couple of breeding pairs of swifties into an aviary somewhere and hope they survive. That is Environment Minister Plibersek's version of no extinctions. She is happy to drive these amazing, complicated, so-special creatures into extinction in the wild, because she is a lackey to the corporate interests, whether it be the native forest logging sector in Tasmania or the toxic fish farming corporates.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens' business model is one of division and fear. It doesn't matter what the subject matter is; they will find something to create fear about. Senator Polley quite rightly talked about fearmongering. That's exactly what we have from the Australian Greens when it comes to this serious issue.</para>
<para>I was delighted to hear Senator Polley's sparkling repartee about the salmon industry in Tasmania. This party that used to be the friend of the worker is no longer, because it is this party that is hanging the axe over the heads of 400-plus workers on the West Coast of Tasmania and preparing to drive a stake through the heart of the community of Strahan. It's a disgrace. They come and stand here and say, 'Oh, we support workers and we're improving the cost of living.' Not in Strahan, they're not, when they're going to take away the jobs of hundreds of workers, shut the school down and rip the guts out of the community.</para>
<para>Part of Senator Polley's defence of this insipid government was the fact that, by law, the government is required to act on requests for review of permits. This permit, I might add, was put in place under the last Labor government, by environment minister Tony Burke, in 2012. Apparently he got it wrong, can I tell you, so now they're reviewing it. The people and entities that made the request are what was missing from Senator Polley's defence of this insipid government's approach. The fact is that the application for review was put in place by the Australia Institute, which we know is an entity very, very closely aligned to the Australian Labor Party; by the Bob Brown Foundation, an entity closely aligned to the Australian Greens—we should know that by its very name—and of course the Environmental Defenders Office. Who funds the Environmental Defenders Office? It's the Labor government. So they're paying an organisation to lodge applications to unpick permits for industries that support hundreds if not thousands of jobs. Yet they can't make a decision on this.</para>
<para>The Premier of Tasmania, quite rightly, along with the Leader of the Labor Party in Tasmania, has asked for certainty for the industry. Those requests have fallen on deaf ears. The minister refuses to act because of exactly what Senator Polley said. I think it bells the cat on exactly where we're headed. This government are preparing to shut the sustainable, science based salmon industry on the West Coast of Tasmania, and they don't want to do it before the Tasmanian election this Saturday.</para>
<para>I will be interested to see how the Australian Labor Party vote on this urgency motion today, including my very good, outstanding Tasmanian Labor Senate colleagues. I'll be very interested to see where they go, particularly when you consider the remarks of respected individuals of the Tasmanian community, including Kade Wakefield, the assistant national secretary of the AWU, who made a good point about the decision that Ms Plibersek, the Minister for the Environment and Water, has before her. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government has been dragging its heels on this review …</para></quote>
<para>I might add that we, and all Tasmanians who actually care about the workers on the West Coast, did ask for this review to be completed by the end of March—fail. We're getting there, and there will be no decision.</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government has been dragging its heels on this review but at the end of the day Tanya Plibersek will have to decide what she thinks is more important: the livelihoods of blue collar regional Tasmanian families or the overblown concerns of inner-city activists about a fish they've decided to make famous.</para></quote>
<para>That is one of their crew, a union representative, asking this Labor government to do what they claim to do—that is, to stand up for workers—but they're not doing it; there's silence. They are working through a process which was activated because of a taxpayer funded organisation by this Labor government, the EDO—those around the countryside destroying jobs. There are people who cheer this on. I hope everyone knows in Tasmania exactly who is standing up for this industry and these workers.</para>
<para>It's not just union officials. It's not just the Tasmanian Premier. It's not just the Tasmanian Liberal Senate team. It's also people like the Mayor of the West Coast Council, Shane Pitt, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I urge Minister Plibersek and the Prime Minister …</para></quote>
<para>The Prime Minister who, of course, flew into Hobart, couldn't get out of Hobart, didn't go and see the workers on the West Coast.</para>
<quote><para class="block">… to think about the people here on the West Coast. It's cruel to let the kids and the families start the school year with this hanging over their heads.</para></quote>
<para>The mayor's right. The government don't care. They're not going to do a thing to support the workers of the West Coast in the salmon industry. You know what? Today it's the West Coast. Mark my words, if this industry fails on the west, it'll be the rest of Tasmania. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>FIRST SPEECH</title>
        <page.no>77</page.no>
        <type>FIRST SPEECH</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Sharma, Senator Dave</title>
          <page.no>77</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Before I call Senator Sharma, I remind honourable senators that this is his first speech; therefore, I ask that the usual courtesies be extended to him.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHARMA</name>
    <name.id>274506</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've had the unique honour of representing Australia in a number of capacities: as a diplomat and ambassador, as a former member of the House of Representatives and now as a senator in the Senate, representing the people of New South Wales, the oldest state in our federation, and the place I've always been proud to call home. My political journey has involved a lot more twists and turns than I ever anticipated when embarking on this career. As a form of employment, it's proven somewhat less secure than the diplomatic service! But what drew me back—why I am back—is because I care deeply for, and believe strongly in, our nation of Australia. Patriotism has become an unfashionable concept of late, but I am happy to describe myself as a patriot, because we should all be proud of Australia's audacious success. We have forged a nation out of the most diverse group of people imaginable into one that is prosperous, secure, united and harmonious. The opportunities we provide our citizens are without parallel. Our freedoms are robust. Our institutions are strong. Our quality of life is the envy of the world.</para>
<para>We should never, however, make the mistake of assuming that Australia's success is preordained—a birthright of our nation. Representing Australia as a diplomat overseas, I've seen how quickly countries can run aground by neglecting their fundamentals, by magnifying small differences, by indulging special interests, by allowing hubris to take hold. The biggest challenge we face in Australia is that born out of complacency. It's complacent to assume we can focus on the small issues because the big issues will look after themselves. It's complacent to assume that future prosperity is assured because the past has been kind to us. It's complacent to assume that our security is safeguarded by powerful allies and remoteness. The truth is Australia faces significant tests, the likes of which we have not encountered for several decades.</para>
<para>When I delivered my first speech in the other chamber, almost five years ago, I warned that Australia's strategic holiday was over, that the features of the international system and our own neighbourhood, which had largely underwritten peace and prosperity in the post-war era, were coming under strain and that we would need to rely more on ourselves and less on others in safeguarding our freedoms and independence as a nation. Since that time, the world has become only a less certain and more dangerous place.</para>
<para>Australia has enjoyed three great assets, and for most of our history these assets have kept the forces of chaos and danger safely at bay. The first is our geography. Being an island continent and relatively remote has insulated us from much turmoil and hostility. The second has been our partnerships: our alliances with the major naval power of the day, initially Great Britain and later the United States, have safeguarded the seas and our major trading routes, allowing us to trade freely and underwriting much of our prosperity. The third has been an international order that is rules based rather than power based. Australia has been an outsized beneficiary of this order where states are considered sovereign equals, where they enjoy the same rights regardless of size or strength and operate under the same agreed framework of international law.</para>
<para>These three assets, however, are now under threat. Longer-range weapon systems plus the ability to interfere from afar through digital and cyber tools means our geographic isolation no longer provides the measure of protection it once did. The US Navy no longer enjoys uncontested predominance on the high seas. The PLA Navy now has more battle force ships than the US Navy and is building new ships and combatant vessels at a higher rate. The liberal international order is under strain, with a distinct shift towards a power based rather than rules based order. If Australia is to remain a sovereign and independent nation enjoying freedom of action and making decisions in our own national interest, we must confront each of these challenges.</para>
<para>The erosion of our geographic advantage means we need to be better equipped to deter and defend against potential attacks on our sovereignty. This means greater surveillance and force projection capabilities in our defence forces and an ability to operate further from Australia's shores. We also need to strengthen our defences against espionage, foreign influence operations and digital and cyber attacks.</para>
<para>The Royal Australian Navy is now operating the oldest surface fleet in our nation's history, and the time line for an upgrade in our capabilities is too slow. Australia must embrace new technologies and doctrines, from longer-range missiles to armed drones and uncrewed platforms that can quickly boost our power projection capabilities.</para>
<para>Lastly, the challenge to the liberal international order means Australia must do more to defend the principles that underpin that order rather than rely on the efforts of others. In today's world there are currently two significant conflicts underway involving major powers. They are testing two important, foundational principles that have underpinned the post-World War II settlement and are articulated in the UN charter. Russia's invasion of Ukraine is testing the principle that one sovereign state cannot use force against another or acquire territory by force, and Hamas's terrorist attack of 7 October against Israel and Israel's legitimate military response are testing the principle of the right to self-defence. Both conflicts have the potential to spill beyond their current theatres and escalate into larger wars with global implications for peace and security. Both wars are exacting a heavy human toll. In both wars there are loud voices growing louder, insisting that the costs have grown too high and demanding that a settlement be found on any terms.</para>
<para>The test we face today with these two conflicts is whether we are prepared to uphold the important principles at stake. It was Henry Kissinger, reflecting on the breakdown in peace in the interwar period, who counselled that peace was the by-product of an international system that was willing to use force if necessary to maintain its underlying principles. But he warned that, if these underlying principles were not enforced, the system would quickly fall victim to the most cynical and ruthless states and would lead to a greater breakdown in peace.</para>
<para>If we truly want an enduring peace then we need to defend the principles that deter aggressors, and Australia has to play a part in this defence. If Russia succeeds in extinguishing Ukrainian sovereignty or Hamas is able to claim a meaningful victory, then we will have failed this test. Ruthless actors the world over will be emboldened, and the conflicts we so desperately sought to avoid will be brought, instead, closer to our own shores. Australia must do more to help Ukraine resist Russia's aggression, and Australia must insist that a durable peace in the Middle East is only possible with the removal of Hamas.</para>
<para>Domestically, our nation is struggling. The national accounts show that the Australian economy is anaemic. Without migration, our economy would not be growing at all. Real living standards are going backwards. Productivity growth is low, inflation is high, our population is ageing and the demands on government spending are growing massively. This is not just a post COVID blip but, as last year's <inline font-style="italic">Intergenerational </inline><inline font-style="italic">report</inline> makes clear, a taste of what our economic future may look like.</para>
<para>Left unchecked, Australia is headed for a high-tax future, national decline and stark choices about where to direct our shrinking national resources. We risk becoming this century's Argentina, a promising nation that lost its way. And we are already seeing signs of Argentina syndrome here in Australia, where much of the national debate is focused on how to divide the spoils, how to reallocate the burdens, and how to insulate key industries and sectors from competition rather than how to grow the economy so that we are all better off.</para>
<para>The heart of our national economic challenge is threefold: to improve our demography, to boost our productivity and to rein in government spending. To support a larger elderly population in a sustainable way, we need a larger working-age population. Reversing the steady decline in our birthrate would lower Australia's median age, help ensure we have a larger working-age population and deliver a more sustainable balance between immigration and Australian-born citizens. We need policies that increase support for families, including those having children later in life, that make our care and schooling systems more accommodating; that treat the household, rather than the individual, as the entity for tax purposes; and that make housing more affordable.</para>
<para>Our woeful productivity performance must also be addressed. In Australia, this challenge is exacerbated by two factors: an industrial relations system that is increasingly decoupled from productivity gains and a lack of competition.</para>
<para>Competitive pressures drive innovation, investment and productivity, but the Australian economy in key sectors—from banks to utilities, supermarkets to telecommunications, aviation to insurance—has too little competition. In addition to the drag on productivity this situation creates, this lack of competition has allowed aggressive pricing practices, especially in the wake of the pandemic, and has been a major contributor to recent inflation. Corporate gross operating profits have surged over the past three years, whilst the share of national income going to labour has shrunk, despite low unemployment, to its lowest level ever. What we have witnessed is a rapid redistribution of national income. Big businesses have gained; workers and small businesses have lost.</para>
<para>Australia now has one of the most concentrated economies in the developed world. We have two major supermarkets, three dominant energy retailers, three dominant telcos, four major banks, two major airlines, four major insurers. And the profit margins of all of these companies are generally higher than those of benchmarks overseas. Concentrated domestic industries with only a few dominant players have, as their main objective, the preservation of their cosy market structure with reduced incentive to improve productivity or compete on price. This is highly profitable for shareholders, but it comes at the expense of consumers and, ultimately, Australia's economic performance. The way to solve this problem is not through more regulation. What we need is a renewed emphasis on competition policy and reform in Australia to lower the barriers to entry to reduce regulations that entrench the privileged positions of existing market players.</para>
<para>Lastly, as the blowing-out costs of the NDIS and the pressures on our aged-care sector illustrate, demand-driven social services without strict eligibility criteria, caps on payments and a scaled user contribution can quickly balloon out of control. Such an approach to welfare is simply not sustainable.</para>
<para>One of our most pressing national challenges is that of housing affordability. Australia is a nation built on home ownership. Home ownership provides stability for families, creates stronger communities and provides security in retirement. Housing is not just an asset class; it is a social good. But today we are failing a whole generation of younger Australians by denying them the ability to buy their own homes. Forty years ago in my hometown of Sydney, the median house price was five times the average annual salary. Today the ratio is closer to 12 and it is a picture replicated to varying degrees across Australia.</para>
<para>Today's younger Australians have done all that we have asked of them. They finished school, got a qualification, found a job, are paying taxes yet they find no matter how much they earn or how hard they save, home ownership is beyond their grasp. This is a breach of our social compact, and if it is left unaddressed we are storing up massive problems for the future. We will undermine social mobility in Australia and entrench inequality. The failure here is overwhelmingly one of supply. Consistently, over two decades, we have simply failed to build enough new homes to meet the demands of Australia's population, and this problem is especially acute in my home state of New South Wales. There are myriad reasons: slow and cumbersome approval and land release processes; too much bureaucracy and regulation, which add to cost and time for projects; workforce and skills shortages in the construction industry; and, sometimes, outright nimbyism, which privileges the rights of existing property owners over those who do not yet own property.</para>
<para>New South Wales managed to build 40,000 homes per year at the end of World War II. Last year we managed just 32,000 new dwellings. We must do better. We must enable the building of more homes, more quickly, and more cheaply or we will fail Australia. The shortage of housing is being exacerbated by high immigration, which is fuelling demand for already limited supply. Until we are able to accelerate the pace of our homebuilding, we need to reduce our immigration intake or else we will simply place further pressure on our housing market.</para>
<para>The challenge of housing affordability is not the only one being faced by the current working generation. They are also expected to pay for their own retirement through compulsory superannuation. Many of them carry sizeable debt from the studies they undertook to get a job, and increasingly they are being forced to pay through higher income taxes the lion's share of our generous social services. This is not an equitable or a sustainable social compact.</para>
<para>Australia collects a greater share of tax revenue from personal income tax than almost any other advanced economy. Almost 50c in every tax dollar collected comes from personal income tax, roughly double the OECD average. This unhealthy dependence on income tax receipts is growing worse, spurred on by high inflation and bracket creep. Income tax collection has gone up 23 per cent in a little under two years, as inflation pushes people into higher tax brackets. The number of Australians in the top tax bracket has doubled in the past decade and this shift has been mirrored right down the tax scale. People might be earning a higher nominal income, but high inflation means their purchasing power is actually reduced, and now their taxes have increased.</para>
<para>The changes to the stage 3 tax cuts made by the Labor government have only further entrenched bracket creep as a feature of our tax system. Australia's unhealthy dependence on income tax places an unfair burden on many younger Australians. Most do not own any assets but they are seeing an increasing share of their income being transferred to people who do. Little wonder they are frustrated. While I appreciate the challenges of wholesale tax reform, at the very least we should put in some guardrails to stop this problem from getting worse. We must put an end to the government's lazy reliance on bracket creep to magically fill revenue holes, put some discipline into government spending and force a conversation that we must have about a better tax mix.</para>
<para>Finally, let me address one of the most important responsibilities we all share: keeping our nation united. If you conducted a thought experiment and declared that you were going to people a new nation with individuals from all around the world with different ethnicities, languages, cultures, religions and value systems, put them all together, and overlay them on an existing civilisation and culture, most people would think you were creating a sure-fire path to civil strife, but that nation is Australia and the fact that we have been able to make such an experiment succeed and create a peaceful, prosperous and harmonious whole from many different parts is nothing short of astonishing.</para>
<para>We have achieved this through a shared sense of civic values, a respect for our institutions and, most fundamentally, a respect for each other as fellow Australians first and foremost. This is what has allowed us to escape the sorts of communal violence and sectarian tensions that often bedevil countries abroad. But, too frequently of late, our leaders have muted their voices and our institutions have neglected their duties in maintaining this compact. Discrimination, vilification, harassment and intimidation against the Jewish community in Australia have reached unprecedented levels. I understand that people in Australia feel strongly and differ widely in their views about the rights and wrongs of the current conflict in the Middle East and the terrible suffering and human tragedy that has accompanied it. But differing views is one thing. What we have seen in recent months has clearly crossed the Rubicon and resulted in one community and one community alone—the Australian Jewish community—being made to feel unwelcome in their own country, fearful in their own neighbourhoods and anxious about the future they face here. This is utterly unacceptable. It is also incredibly dangerous.</para>
<para>Jewish Australians are no more responsible for Israel's conduct of this war than Palestinian Australians are responsible for Hamas's terrorist attack that prompted it. Like all other Australians, they are entitled to their political freedoms and to voice their political opinions. We simply must not tolerate the mix of mob rule, lawlessness, anarchy and intimidation that has been allowed to flourish in Australia in these past several months. It is doing irreparable harm to a community, but it is also doing irreparable harm to the social fabric of Australia. Today it might be Jewish Australians, but tomorrow it will be another group or another minority against which the forces of the populist mob are unleashed. Down that road lies civil turmoil and national disunity. Staying quiet, sitting on the sidelines and hoping it will all go away is a complete failure of leadership.</para>
<para>I have a large number of people to thank tonight, many of whom are sitting in the gallery—more than I can possibly do justice to! It's an honour to be filling the casual vacancy created by the retirement of Marise Payne, who devoted her professional career to public service and served with distinction in senior roles in government. It's a source of pride to be here as a member of the Liberal Party, the political movement whose values are most relevant to modern Australia: a belief in the moral agency and freedom of the individual, a commitment to social mobility and a recognition that a thriving private sector is the best provider of opportunity. It's a pleasure to serve under today's leadership of Peter Dutton, Sussan Ley and Simon Birmingham in the Senate—all people whom I admire and respect.</para>
<para>I've been incredibly fortunate in the opportunities Australia has given me, from a quality public school education to the honour of representing our country overseas and now the people of New South Wales here in this chamber. But I would not have been able to grasp these opportunities without the support I've had from so many people: my close mates from school, who always keep me grounded and who threatened the disclosure of various youthful indiscretions if they did not get a special mention this evening; my two elder sisters and my mum's family members, who have always looked out for me; and, most importantly, my own family members: my wife, Rachel, and our three daughters, Estella, Daphne, and Diana, who have always been a steadfast source of support, encouragement, humour and love.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>81</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Salmon Industry</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's be clear: this matter of urgency is a stunt in the lead-up to the Tasmanian election this weekend. It's an attempt by the Liberal Party to scare workers and their communities in regional Tasmania. Labor will always back workers, and a sustainable salmon industry in Tassie—our salmon industry—is renowned across the globe as first class. That's the thing that we're backing. I'd like to take this opportunity to clear up disinformation from those opposite. Consultation about salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour on Tasmania's West Coast has recently ended. This process was not initiated by the federal government and those opposite know this very well. Let me repeat that: the consultation process was not initiated by the federal government. It is required as a result of applications made by three groups under Australia's national environment laws. These groups argued that salmon farming is having an unacceptable impact on the Maugean skate—an endangered fish.</para>
<para>The national environment laws which require these applications to be considered—remember, these are laws that are required—were passed in 2000 by those opposite, the Liberal government at the time. They were implemented by the Liberal government in the year 2000. The consultation was very broad. It meant that workers and their union, the salmon industry, communities, environmental groups and scientists, as well as state and local government had an opportunity to have their say. On numerous occasions I have personally met with residents of the Strahan community and in fact the broader West Coast community. I've met with the West Coast Council. I've met with workers from the industry and the unions that represent them, and with the companies who operate farms in Macquarie Harbour. I've worked actively with the Strahan community to ensure they had opportunities to have their voices heard via their submissions.</para>
<para>During the consultation period, the department received over 2,500 submissions. The department will of course now take time to carefully consider the information that was received from those submissions. When the submissions opened, I worked hard with the minister's office to ensure that salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour would not have to pause while that occurs. That was very important to me, but it was also very, very important to that industry.</para>
<para>Everyone, including the salmon industry and the Tasmanian government, agree that more needs to be done to restore the health of Macquarie Harbour. Ultimately the Tasmanian government have responsibility for salmon farming regulations, and they recently extended the licences in Macquarie Harbour. However, our government is working with the Tasmanian government as part of the National Recovery Team for the Maugean Skate, alongside the salmon farming industry, Hydro Tasmania, scientists and members of the local community. As part of this work, we've committed over $2 million to establish a captive-breeding program, and that amount is being matched by the Tasmanian government. This is in addition to the work being done by industry to reoxygenate the harbour. To date, I understand this has had really good results.</para>
<para>The government, over on this side of the chamber, will keep working with the Tasmanian government on restoring the health of the harbour and ensuring the future of the Maugean skate. I will keep working personally with people of Strahan, the workers in the industry and the industries which support the salmon industry. Quite frankly, Senator Duniam should stop these silly stunts which only lead to heightening concerns within the community, the industry and those who work within the industry and further—the flow-on industry. Those stunts are raising huge concerns while this required legal process takes place. They should stop it because it only leads to heightening the concerns within the community whilst the required legal process is occurring.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank my fellow Tasmanian senators from the Liberal Party for bringing this forward, because there is nothing more urgent than the extinction of a species. We know that only in one place on earth, in Macquarie Harbour, a creature that's been with us since the age of the dinosaurs is one marine heatwave away from extinction. That's according to the scientists that have studied it for decades. We know the conservation advice from the best scientists studying the skate. They've told us that, this summer, salmon farming, which is the primary cause of the skate's demise, clear as daylight, needed to be removed from the harbour, but that hasn't happened. It hasn't happened under the Tasmanian Liberals; it hasn't happened under the federal Labor party.</para>
<para>I say to everyone who will listen that every environmental problem you can think of is first and foremost a political problem, because only politics can solve it, and there is no bigger environmental problem than the potential extinction of a species. So how are we going to solve this problem? We could follow the advice of the scientists. We could actually show that we care about the extinction of a species. I agree with Senator Urquhart—we should stop politicising this issue and get on with the job of protecting the maugean skate. We could also provide a guarantee to the workers on the West Coast that they won't be out of a job if salmon farming comes to an end, which is what the science tells us. I want to give a shout-out to the Greens candidates in Tasmania during the state election, who've released a very sensible policy to make sure that the 60 workers that are employed in Macquarie Harbour have a jobs guarantee. They released that; it's gone down very well.</para>
<para>We know that we could also pay for that by taxing the salmon industry. In 2022, over $1 billion of gross state value was contributed from the salmon industry, and they don't pay a cent of tax. Big multinationals—why don't they pay tax? The Liberal government has finally got the industry to cost recovery, and they did have a policy to actually get a return for the Tasmanian people, but they walked that back on the weekend. There will be no new levies and no new taxes on the salmon industry. The Greens would introduce a 10 per cent royalty on the salmon industry, pay to relocate these workers and find them jobs, and pay for— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is with great pleasure that I rise to support the motion from Senator Duniam and to place on the record some genuine facts in relation to not only the situation that exists in Macquarie Harbour but also some of the things that have been said in this chamber today. The fact that the Labor Party stands up and tries to dismiss this important motion is a dismissal of the industry and the workers, quite frankly. It's disgraceful that the Labor Party stand here and try and portray this as something less than important. We expect the Greens to get up and do as they've just done on two occasions during this debate and just say, 'No, just close the industry down.' It's what they do. They do that for other primary industries and resource based industries as well—just say no. That's the mantra. It's simple, but it doesn't provide solutions.</para>
<para>Let's be realistic about why we are here. We are here in this situation because Minister Plibersek made a decision based on some representations that were made to her under the act. She was required to make a decision; she wasn't required to undertake a review, as has been put to the chamber. She was required to make a decision, and she made the wrong one. The first thing that Minister Plibersek should have done in this process was to reject out of hand any evidence that came from the Environmental Defenders Office. We've seen in the Magistrates Court the description of the operations of the Environmental Defenders Office, which Labor fund, as lacking integrity. So the first thing that could have been done was to dismiss out of hand anything that comes from an organisation that submits information to a court case that lacks integrity, as found by the court. That's what should have happened. The minister could have decided to uphold the decision that former minister Tony Burke made in 2012 in relation to salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour. That's what Minister Plibersek could have done and should have done—she should have made that decision.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was 12 years ago! What's happened in the meantime?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Colbeck, resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're driving a species to extinction, and you don't care!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, standing order 197 applies to you as it does to every senator in this place. I require you to comply with the standing orders. Senator Colbeck, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Acting Deputy President. It demonstrates that what I said about the Greens a moment ago is true. They just say no. They try and close everything down. They don't care about the people. They just want to shut it down.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We're trying to save a species from extinction!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you can't shut it down, you try and shout the people down.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Colbeck, resume your seat. Senator Whish-Wilson, you are wilfully disobeying the standing orders and the direction of the chair. Senator Colbeck, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for your protection, Acting Deputy President. Minister Plibersek could have made a decision to leave in place the existing approval made by her colleague the then minister for the environment Tony Burke in 2012. That's what she should have done. Had she done that, none of the genuine concerns of the Tasmanian community, particularly of the West Coast community, would have existed. It was Minister Plibersek who wrote to the Tasmanian Premier threatening to pause the industry. They are legitimately concerned when the federal minister writes to the Tasmanian Premier in those terms. Why shouldn't they be concerned?</para>
<para>Then, off the back of that, Minister Plibersek made a decision to review a decision made 12 years ago. That raises the significant concern of sovereign risk for any decision made under the EPBC Act. Any decision made under the EPBC Act is now under threat because of what Minister Plibersek did. Never before has a decision that was made so long ago, where the industry has got on with operating under the approval that it was given, been reconsidered. Never has that been done before. It raises significant sovereign risk not just for the salmon industry but for any industry in this country that has an approval under the EPBC Act. That's what Minister Plibersek has done. So why shouldn't the Tasmanian community be concerned? More broadly, why shouldn't anyone who was operating with an approval under the EPBC Act be concerned about what this minister might do? This is an important motion. It is relevant in the context of everything that's happening today. We should not be in this position in the first place, because Minister Plibersek should not have made the decision that she made. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the urgency motion as moved by Senator Duniam be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:46] <br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>21</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Ghosh, V.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to take note of the government response to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee report <inline font-style="italic">Family Law Amendment Bill 2023 [Provisions]</inline>, noting that the government response was received by this place on 7 March 2024. I have three points to make in relation to this government response. The first is in relation to process. If this Senate is to do its work properly in terms of reviewing bills that come before this place, then it needs time to do its work. It needs time to do its work. In relation to one of the most substantial changes to the family law provisions this nation has ever seen, the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee had one day of hearings. It was absolutely disgraceful. It had one day of hearings to consider some of the most major reforms ever made to the Family Law Act, which is a piece of legislation affecting all Australians, some in their most difficult times.</para>
<para>We had one day to hear from the witnesses. The witnesses then had three business days to respond to questions on notice. The Law Council of Australia, professors and various non-government organisations representing different stakeholders across this country had three business days to respond to questions on notice, which I and other members of that committee provided. When did we receive the government response to the recommendations that were made by the majority of the committee and also in my additional comments? When did we receive the response? Four months after the bill had been passed. Four months after the bill had been passed, we received the government response. It's now March 2024. We're now receiving the government response to a bill that was passed in the first week of November last year in relation to recommendations that were made by a committee of this place in August last year.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's typical of them.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is absolutely typical of them. I'll take that interjection, absolutely. It's not good enough.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hughes</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's disrespectful.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's disrespectful, as Senator Hughes says. It shows a contempt for the processes of this place. Every one of us here has an obligation, in my view, when a bill comes before this place, to consider how it impacts on Australians, each and every Australian, and to try and improve that legislation to the extent we can. That is such an important part of our role as being a house of review. But that function is being treated with contempt by the Albanese Labor government and the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General of this country, the Hon. Mark Dreyfus, should lead the way in terms of processes. We had one day of hearings and three business days for the witnesses to answer questions on notice. After that, members of the committee were left to burn the midnight oil—and I don't mind doing it—in order to come up with recommendations. Then we got the government response six months after the report and four months after the bill was passed. That's what we're seeing in terms of process and we're seeing it again and again and again. An absolute contempt is being shown by the Attorney-General, in my view, to the processes in this place. It's not good enough. The deeds of the Albanese government do not match the rhetoric.</para>
<para>There are two substantive points I want to make in relation to the government's response to the committee's report. At the outset, I would like to pay my deep respects to the members of the Attorney-General's Department who had to work within the time frames imposed upon them by the Attorney-General. I note that it wasn't their fault and they did their best, in the abbreviated time frame, to respond to the questions that I and other committee members asked. There were two recommendations I made which were not agreed to by the government and which are not reflected in the bill that was passed and became law in November last year. I think these need to be the subject of careful monitoring, consideration and perhaps amendment.</para>
<para>The first recommendation related to the interests of the child to be considered by the court with respect to custody arrangements. I made a strong recommendation that the word 'meaningful' be kept in relation to the clause that said that the court is to consider 'the benefit to the child of being able to have a meaningful relationship with the child's parents'. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the government insisted on taking out the word 'meaningful'. It was against the strong recommendations of the Law Council of Australia, which made a number of points including that there was case law regarding what 'meaningful relationship' meant in that context, and they said, 'It would be undesirable for the bill to abandon the concept.'</para>
<para>But that's what the government did. They took out the adjective 'meaningful' in qualifying the relationship with the child's parents. I strongly disagree with the approach the government took in that regard. I don't believe the government's response provides an adequate explanation as to why the word 'meaningful' should be dropped. I think it sends entirely the wrong message to the community.</para>
<para>The second recommendation I made that was not agreed to by the government related to the presumption of equal shared parental responsibility. In some cases where the Australian Law Reform Commission made recommendations which the government agreed to and which found their way into the bill, the government included those in the response and says, 'We can't do this because the Australian Law Reform Commission said something different.' However, this was a case where the Australian Law Reform Commission noted that there was confusion about the meaning of 'equal, shared parental responsibility' but said there should instead be a presumption of joint decision-making about major long-term issues. I recommended that the ALRC recommendation be adopted and reflected in the drafting of the bill to recognise that there should be a presumption in terms of custody in relation to joint decision-making on behalf of parents about major long-term issues, and that should be adopted and reflected in the bill.</para>
<para>Again, the government rejected the recommendation. In this case, the Australian Law Reform Commission had recommended it, but it wasn't adopted by the government. In the additional comments that were contained in the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee report, which I drafted, I quoted the Hunter Valley Family Law Practitioners Association, which strongly recommended that amendment should be made to the bill. The Family Law Practitioners Association of Queensland also did.</para>
<para>These are the people dealing on a day-to-day basis with families going through these issues, and they recommend that that change should be made to the bill. Others also recommend that that change be made to the bill, including the Family Law Practitioners' Association of Western Australia. Professor Bruce Smyth, who is also an expert in this case, recommended that that change be made to the bill. Again, the government is not responding to the legitimate concerns of stakeholders and to considered and measured submissions that would improve bills and laws being made in this place. They are just being ignored by this Attorney-General. In my view, the process being adopted by the Attorney, the timetables he is adopting and the deadlines he is proposing show contempt for the role of this place as a place of review and contempt for the views of very substantial stakeholders.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the government's response to the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme on its inquiry into the capability and culture of the National Disability Insurance Agency, and I seek leave to incorporate the document in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government Response to the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme Final Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Inquiry into the Capability and Culture of the National Disability Insurance Agency (NDIA)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">March 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government (the Government) welcomes the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme's (the Committee) final report of its inquiry into the Capability and Culture of the National Disability Insurance Agency (NDIA, the Agency).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 14 September 2022, the Committee announced it had initiated an inquiry into the capability and culture of the NDIA. The Committee would inquire into the implementation, performance, governance, administration and expenditure of the National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS), with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<list>the capability and culture of the NDIA, with reference to operational processes and procedures, and the nature of staff employment:</list>
<list>the impacts of NDIA capability and culture on the experiences of people with disability and NDIS participants trying to access information, support and services from the Agency; and</list>
<list>any other relevant matters.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that the Committee received a total of 206 submissions and held 13 public hearings across the country. The Committee tabled an interim report for this inquiry on 30 March 2023 and its final report on 16 November 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The final report makes 27 recommendations. In addition, the Committee made five recommendations in its interim report. There are a further three recommendations from the Coalition and seven recommendations from the Australian Greens. This Government response addresses all recommendations made in relation to the inquiry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Two significant and related processes ran in parallel to this inquiry:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability (the Disability Royal Commission) published its final report on 29 September 2023. It made 222 recommendations on how to improve laws, policies, structures and practices to ensure a more inclusive and just society that supports the independence of people with disability and their right to live free from violence, abuse, neglect and exploitation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The Independent Review of the NDIS (the NDIS Review) released its final report on 7 December 2023. It made 26 recommendations, with 139 detailed actions under these recommendations, to help restore trust, ensure the Scheme's sustainability, and deliver a better NDIS experience for participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is considerable overlap and alignment between the Committee's recommendations in its interim and final reports and the recommendations of the Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS Review. The Government response to this inquiry notes where there is alignment between these recommendations, and does not pre-empt the Government's response to the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government acknowledges that the Committee's recommendations in its interim and final reports, along with the recommendations of the Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS Review, are aligned with the Government's focus on rebuilding trust and confidence in the NDIS and getting the Scheme back on track. The Government accepts reform is required to secure the future of the NDIS, so that it can continue to provide life-changing outcomes for current and future generations of Australians with disability. This hard work necessarily starts with lifting the capability and capacity of the NDIA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is working openly and transparently, as it takes forward the further work required with the disability community and state and territory governments on the response to the Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS Review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has already invested more than $429.5 million through the 2023-24 Budget to lift the NDIA's capability, capacity and systems to better support participants. These investments include better decision-making processes and planner capability for participants with specialised needs, strengthening guidelines for planners on support volumes and intensity, and providing clear minimum standards of evidence for assistance with daily living.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to transparency and partnership with the disability community in delivering these initiatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has also worked through National Cabinet on an initial response to key aspects of the NDIS Review. On 6 December 2023, National Cabinet agreed to work together to implement legislative and other changes to the NDIS to improve the experience of participants and restore the original intent of the NDIS to support people with permanent and significant disability, within a broader ecosystem of support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Cabinet agreed to jointly design additional Foundational Supports to be jointly commissioned by the Commonwealth and the states, with the work to be oversighted by the First Secretaries Group.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">An initial tranche of legislation will be introduced into the Commonwealth Parliament in the first half of 2024, with rule changes phased in as developed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a significant step. These commitments demonstrate governments' ongoing commitment to the NDIS. It reinforces support for the NDIS and the social and economic inclusion of people with disability across the nation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discussions with the disability community will continue over the coming months as we work together to make the positive changes needed for people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Inquiry into the Capability and Culture of the NDIA</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations made by the Committee in the Interim Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Interim Report—The Committee recommends that NDIA staff have comprehensive training in disability awareness and anti-discrimination, and that the Government support planners and other NDIA staff, including contact centre staff, develop specialised skills in specific areas of disability and participants' needs, so the Scheme can serve the diversity of NDIS participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Interim Report recommendation 1: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to improving the training and development for NDIA staff so that the NDIS works for all participants, including those from diverse backgrounds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are a number of initiatives underway including mandatory annual training on contemporary disability rights, disability awareness and diversity for all people working at the NDIA, access to a Disability Navigator and Disability Snapshots, a Disability Inclusion Plan, deep dives led by the NDIA's Disability Champion focused on improving accessibility and inclusion, and co-designing a new Culturally and Linguistically Diverse (CALD) strategy and First Nations strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIA is also transforming the National Contact Centre (NCC) by redeveloping and expanding the NCC induction training, doubling the amount of training provided to staff, creating and training specialist teams with a new additional advanced skills program, and a skills-based routing model design, which will direct calls to specialised teams based on menu selections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's investment in the NDIA's capability, culture and systems will build on these initiatives and allow the NDIA to invest in a workforce capacity and capability package to improve training, tools, and system improvements for planners and partners. It will also improve the consistency, cultural inclusivity, and experience of the planning process for both the frontline workforce and participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 22 of the NDIS Review to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Interim Report—The Committee recommends that the Government lift staffing caps and improve workplace culture to reduce staff turnover and improve the experience of participants through continuity of relationships.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Interim Report recommendation 2: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to increasing permanent staffing at the NDIA, by reducing insecure labour hire arrangements, investing in leadership capability development and career pathways, and improving Agency culture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proportion of permanent Australian Public Service (APS) roles has increased from 69.59 per cent as of 30 June 2023 to 75.95 per cent as of 31 December 2023. Between 30 June 2023 and 31 December 2023, the number of permanent APS roles has increased by 1,279 (5,328 to 6,607). The number of temporary roles decreased, with APS non-ongoing roles decreasing by 112 (324 to 212) and Labour Hire roles decreasing by 122 (2,004 to 1,882). 292 Labour Hire workers also transitioned to APS employment with the Agency over this period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Service Delivery roles continue to be the priority area of Agency workforce growth. Between 30 June 2023 and 31 December 2023, the number of Agency Planners has increased by 895 (2,303 to 3,198).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The implementation of the APS Strategic Commissioning Framework, released by the Australian Public Service Commission in October 2023, will result in additional increases to Agency ASL in financial years' 23-24 and 24-25. The framework sets a clear expectation that most roles and functions in Government Agencies will be delivered by APS employees and outlines the limited circumstances in which external workforces such as labour hire can be engaged. The Agency is currently developing an implementation plan to support to support role transition and ensure adherence to the framework for new recruitment requests in the Agency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Agency is making good progress in reducing rates of employee turnover. Over the 12 months to 31 December 2023, the Agency staff turnover rate for ongoing APS employees has decreased from 11.20 per cent to 7.86 per cent; a reduction of 3.34 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 22 of the NDIS Review to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Interim Report—The Committee recommends that the Government invest in training of staff and updating systems to improve the quality and transparency of decision-making, and to ensure that decisions consistently meet the requirements of the NDIS Act, so participants do not have to tell their stories again and again to multiple people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Interim Report recommendation 3: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to ensuring the NDIS planning process is simpler and more transparent for NDIS participants. The NDIA's Participants, Platforms and Processes (3P) Project will improve the consistent application of NDIA's processes, and better support participants through a new fit-for-purpose business system called PACE, to eventually replace the NDIA's current Customer Relationship Management (CRM) system and portals. The PACE system was successfully tested in Tasmania and commenced national implementation on 31 October 2023. The NDIA has been working directly with staff, participants, and providers in designing the change program required to support implementation of PACE.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIA is building PACE in a way that futureproofs the system, recognising it will need to be flexible to implement future legislative changes and outcomes of ongoing codesign, as required, including changes arising from the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Participant Service Improvement Plan (PSIP) is published on the NDIS website and outlines 51 commitments to ensure NDIS transparency. These commitments have a strong focus on a more consistent experience for NDIS participants when they are interacting with the Agency, which is clearer and more easily understood.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway and Recommendation 22 to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. Interim Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA adopt a participant- led, user-centred design approach to improve the participant experience, including better supporting participants at life-changing events.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Interim Report recommendation 4: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. Interim Report—The Committee recommends that the Government address the concerns of participants that a plan underspend might lead to reduced funding in their next plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Interim Report recommendation 5: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations made by the Committee in the Final Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA assess people according to the totality of their disabilities and no longer require participants to nominate 'primary disability' and 'secondary disability'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 1: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA review, publish and implement changes to List A: Conditions that are likely to meet the disability requirements, and List B: Conditions that are likely to result in a permanent impairment to improve inclusion of invisible, episodic, rare, and psychosocial disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 2: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">National Disability Insurance Scheme (NDIS) Act 2013</inline>, which took effect on 1 July 2022, clarified that episodic and fluctuating impairments can be considered permanent when determining eligibility to the Scheme, including for people with psychosocial disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway and Recommendation 7 to introduce a new approach to NDIS supports for psychosocial disability, focused on personal recovery, and develop mental health reforms to better support people with severe mental illness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA develop, publish, and implement a mechanism to improve staff knowledge and acceptance of invisible, episodic, rare, and psychosocial disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 3: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with the following recommendations in the NDIS Review:</para></quote>
<list>Recommendation 3 to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway</list>
<list>Recommendation 7 to introduce a new approach to NDIS supports for psychosocial disability, focused on personal recovery, and develop mental health reforms to better support people with severe mental illness</list>
<list>Recommendation 22 to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA develop and implement a mechanism to recruit and retain staff with specialised knowledge and skills regarding invisible, episodic, rare, and psychosocial disabilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 4: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 7 of the NDIS Review to introduce a new approach to NDIS supports for psychosocial disability, focused on personal recovery, and develop mental health reforms to better support people with severe mental illness and Recommendation 22 to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA focus its compliance activities on the activities of service providers and subcontractors, to prevent systematic fraud and to ensure that people with disability do not experience further discrimination in wider society.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 5: Supported</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Fraud Fusion Taskforce (FFT) brings together 16 Government agencies to deliver a whole-of-government capability uplift to detect and respond to potential fraudulent and criminal activity against the NDIS and deliver greater integrity and fairness across Commonwealth programs and payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The FFT has new capabilities to identify misuses of NDIS funds intended to support people with disability. The FFT is reducing risk to participants by disrupting bad practice and fraudulent behaviours of providers, including prosecuting and shutting them down. FFT activities strengthen and improve the NDIS and other government systems, making it easy to do the right thing and harder to do the wrong thing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, the NDIA regularly delivers a variety of education and awareness sessions to assist providers to understand their roles and responsibilities as a NDIS provider. This includes general sessions focused on operating as a provider within the NDIS, as well as issues specific sessions on topics such as good payment practices. These information sessions are supported by a variety of provider focused online resources available on the NDIS website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission make recommendations to the Fraud Fusion Taskforce for increasing investigation, detection, and prosecution of systematic fraud against the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 6: Supported</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission is a key contributor to the Fraud Fusion Taskforce (FFT), being a permanent member on all governance committees, driving the strategic direction of the FFT.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with state and territory government counterparts to ensure that children with a disability who need access to early childhood intervention services are able to do so, especially in rural, regional and remote areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 7: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 6 of the NDIS Review to create a continuum of support for children under the age of 9 and their families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with state and territory governments to ensure that the rights and wishes of participants of the NDIS are upheld and respected when they are under guardianship and trustee orders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 8: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA introduced a new Supported Decision Making policy in April 2023 to better support people with disability to make decisions in the NDIS, including those participants with child representatives and nominees under the NDIS Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 5 of the NDIS Review to provide better support for people with disability to make decisions about their lives, and Recommendation 6.15 of the Disability Royal Commission on updating the national standards for public advocates, public guardians and public trustees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA keep and maintain accurate records of participants under guardianship and/or financial administration orders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 9: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA is working with state and territory guardian and financial administrators to improve processes and management of records related to state and territory guardianship and financial administration orders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 6.15 of the Disability Royal Commission on updating the national standards for public advocates, public guardians and public trustees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further as part of its response to the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10. Final Report—The Committee recommends that, where a participant is under a guardianship order, NDIA delegates and planners are required to meet with the participant, including a face-to-face option, to ensure that plans reflect the wishes of the participant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 10: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA introduced a new Supported Decision Making policy in April 2023 to better support people with disability to make decisions in the NDIS, including those participants with child representatives and nominees under the NDIS Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 5 of the NDIS Review to provide better support for people with disability to make decisions about their lives and Recommendations 6.6 and 10.6 of the Disability Royal Commission in relation to Supported Decision Making principles, and to amend the NDIS (Quality Indicators for NDIS Practice Standards) Guidelines 2018 (Cth) to reflect that each participant has opportunities to make decisions and is supported to develop their decision making skills and communicate their will and preferences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with its state and territory counterparts to establish a joint task force with the powers necessary to investigate any instances where NDIS participants are exploited, coerced, or abused while being supported by the state regulated Supported Residential Services sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 11: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 9 of the NDIS Review to deliver a diverse and innovative range of inclusive housing and living supports and Recommendation 17 to develop and deliver a risk-proportionate model for the visibility and regulation of all providers and workers, and strengthen the regulatory response to long- standing and emerging quality and safeguards issues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This recommendation also overlaps with Disability Royal Commission recommendations 10.13, 10.14 and 10.15 in relation to creating an independent investigators panel for complaint handling and investigative practice guidelines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">12. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government work with its state and territory counterparts to develop comprehensive guidance regarding the regulation of disability accommodation providers who are also NDIS providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 12: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 9 of the NDIS Review to deliver a diverse and innovative range of inclusive housing and living supports and Recommendation 17 to develop and deliver a risk-proportionate model for the visibility and regulation of all providers and workers, and strengthen the regulatory response to long- standing and emerging quality and safeguards issues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government develop, publish, and implement a mechanism to ensure that a participant's support coordinators, accommodation provider, and support providers do not have conflicts of interest that would impact the quality or safety of participant supports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 13: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA regularly deliver a variety of education and awareness sessions to assist providers understand their roles and responsibilities and expectations of good practice. This includes advice on identifying and managing conflict of interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with the following recommendations from the NDIS Review:</para></quote>
<list>Recommendation 9 to deliver a diverse and innovative range of inclusive housing and living supports</list>
<list>Recommendation 10 to invest in digital infrastructure for the NDIS to enable accessible, timely and reliable information and streamlined processes that strengthen NDIS market functioning and scheme integrity</list>
<list>Recommendation 17 to develop and deliver a risk-proportionate model for the visibility and regulation of all providers and workers, and strengthen the regulatory response to long-standing and emerging quality and safeguards issues.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australia Government re- evaluate the design of grant funding under the Information, Linkages and Capacity Building program, giving consideration to the complexity and transparency of the application process, length of funding periods, and amount of funding available.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 14: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15. Final Report—The Committee recommends the Australian Government promote secure, long-term investment in activities that support people with disability, including through Information, Linkages and Capacity Building funding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 15: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">16. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Information, Linkages and Capacity Building program be refocused to better meet the needs of people with disability through ongoing evaluation of outcomes and facilitation of information sharing and strategic development of services across jurisdictions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 16: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17. Final Report—The Committee recommends the Australian Government revise the administrative arrangements for Information, Linkages and Capacity Building grants, consistent with recommendation 5.6 of the Royal Commission into Violence, Abuse, Neglect and Exploitation of People with Disability for the Australian Government to establish new governance arrangements for disability policies and programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 17: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability and Recommendation 5.6 of the Disability Royal Commission to establish new governance arrangements for disability policies and programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">18. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Department of Social Services revise the role of Local Area Coordinators to ensure sufficient resources are directed to the roles of capacity building, information sharing, and community engagement, alongside coordinating NDIS supports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 18: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability and Recommendation 4 to support all people with disability to navigate mainstream, foundational and NDIS service systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">19. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA ensure that planners fully explore current and future accommodation and support needs with participants during pre-planning, planning and plan reviews.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 19: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 8 of the NDIS Review to fund housing and living supports that are fair and consistent, and support participants to exercise genuine choice and control over their living arrangement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">20. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA allow participants to use plan budgets more flexibly, including in situations where short term or emergency accommodation is required.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 20: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway and Recommendation 8 to fund housing and living supports that are fair and consistent, and support participants to exercise genuine choice and control over their living arrangement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">21. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA develop and publish clear, comprehensive guidance material for participants who seek to transition into other forms of supported accommodation, including state disability housing, Supported Independent Living, or Specialist Disability Accommodation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 21: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 8 of the NDIS Review to fund housing and living supports that are fair and consistent, and support participants to exercise genuine choice and control over their living arrangement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA implement mechanisms to support women with disability who are at risk of, or have experienced, domestic, family and sexual violence, including expedited approvals for Supported Independent Living, Specialist Disability Accommodation and Short Term Accommodation, where it is considered reasonable and necessary.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 22: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA released the Participant Safeguarding Policy and Implementation Plan in April 2023. The Agency's initial focus is to support frontline staff to have a more complete and individualised view of participant risk of harms from abuse, neglect, violence and exploitation, and opportunities to meaningfully mitigate these risks through supports that can be provided through NDIS supports and services. The implementation of the Policy will include a capability uplift of NDIA staff and partners to further embed a safeguarding culture within the NDIA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with NDIS Review Recommendations 8 and 9 regarding housing and living supports, and Recommendation 16 regarding safeguarding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">23. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA improve connections with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peak organisations with the goal of improving co-design, and access to culturally appropriate services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 23: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA and First Peoples Disability Network (FPDN) jointly established a First Nations Advisory Council in 2023. First Nations Advisory Council members include First Nations people with lived experience of disability, peak body, and sector representatives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIA will work with the First Nations Advisory Council to discuss and make shared decisions about the goals, strategies, and initiatives that affect First Nations people with disability. This included working on a review NDIS First Nations Strategy and action plan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The NDIA is progressing the development of a new First Nations Strategy, to replace the 2017 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Strategy. The NDIS has publicly committed to working with First Nations people with disability, participants, the broader First Nations disability community, families, carers, and sector stakeholders to co-design this strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 14 of the NDIS Review to improve access to supports for First Nations participants across Australia and for all participants in remote communities through alternative commissioning arrangements and Recommendation 20 to create a new compact between Australian governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">24. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA improve connections with Culturally and Linguistically Diverse peak organisations with the goal of improving co-design, and access to culturally appropriate services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 24: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 2 of the NDIS Review to increase the scale and pace of change in mainstream and community inclusion and accessibility and improve the connection between mainstream services and the NDIS and Recommendation 22 to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">25. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the NDIA invest in building staff capacity to drive an inclusive culture and appropriate support for LGBTQIA+ people with a disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 25: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA is working with the disability and LGBTIQA+ community to review and update the NDIS LGBTIQA+ Strategy in 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability and Recommendation 22 to embed a highly skilled, person-centred, disability aware culture across all disability agencies and governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">26. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Department of Social Services provide ongoing and adequate funding of advocacy organisations, including disability advocacy organisations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 26: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability and Recommendation 6.21 of the Disability Royal Commission on additional funding for advocacy programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further as part of its response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27. Final Report—The Committee recommends that the Australian Government has regard to the recommendations of the Disability Royal Commission 4.7 (right to live free from exploitation, violence, abuse), 6.41 (legislative prohibition of non-therapeutic sterilisation), 7.3 (improve policies and procedures on the provision of reasonable adjustments to students with disability) and 10.1 (embedding human rights) in the implementation of the NDIS and throughout the participant planning pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Final Report recommendation 27: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with the following recommendations of the Disability Royal Commission and the NDIS Review:</para></quote>
<list>Recommendation 4.7 of the Disability Royal Commission on the right to live free from exploitation, violence, abuse</list>
<list>Recommendation 6.41 of the Disability Royal Commission on legislative prohibition of non-therapeutic sterilization</list>
<list>Recommendation 7.3 of the Disability Royal Commission to improve policies and procedures on the provision of reasonable adjustments to students with disability</list>
<list>Recommendation 10.1 of the Disability Royal Commission on embedding human rights</list>
<list>Recommendation 6 of the NDIS Review to Create a continuum of support for children under the age of 9 and their families</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further as part of its response to the release of the final reports of the NDIS Review and the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations made by the Coalition in the Final Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Coalition—The Committee recommends that the NDIA co-design and implement a Sex and Relationships policy to give NDIA staff and participants clear guidelines on the approach to related supports. Additionally, the Committee recommends that planners and coordinators are trained to engage with participants about relationships and sexual expression goals during the development of plans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Coalition recommendation 1: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Coalition—The Committee recommends the ILC program be administered by the NDIA, with robust links with the Department of Social Services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Coalition recommendation 2: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Coalition—We recommend the Labor Government resume releasing the NDIS Monthly summaries, and immediately release the outstanding 2022-23 Annual Financial Sustainability Report and the NDIS Independent Review in full.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Coalition recommendation 3: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the 2022-23 Annual Financial Sustainability Report was released on 8 December 2023 and the NDIS Review was released on 7 December 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 23 of the NDIS Review to measure what matters, build an evidence base of what works, and create a learning system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendations made by the Australian Greens in the Final Report</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend that the Standing Council of Attorneys General expedite national consistency for public guardianship and trustees, including improving the lives of disabled people by considering removing the protection and confidentiality laws order, national consistency of fees, transparency of decision-making, and implementing supported decision making and reviews of orders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Australian Greens recommendation 1: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 6.15 of the Disability Royal Commission on updating the national standards for public advocates, public guardians and public trustees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further as part of its response to the final report of the Disability Royal Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend that the ILC program be administered by the NDIA, with robust links with the Department of Social Services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Australian Greens recommendation 2: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend that the NDIA ensure that planners fully explore current and future accommodation and support needs with participants during pre-planning, planning and plan review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Australian Greens recommendation 3: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 8 of the NDIS Review to fund housing and living supports that are fair and consistent, and support participants to exercise genuine choice and control over their living arrangement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend the NDIA review processes to ensure they are inclusive of gender and sexuality, including exploring establishing supports such as shared safe spaces for LGBTIQA+ disabled people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Australian Greens recommendation 4: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the NDIA is working with the disability and LGBTIQA+ community to review and update the NDIS LGBTIQA+ Strategy in 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 1 of the NDIS Review to invest in foundational supports to bring fairness, balance and sustainability to the ecosystem supporting people with disability and Recommendation 3 to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens note the impact of algorithmic technologies, such as Robodebt and recommend that the NDIA and the Department of Social Services immediately cease any use of algorithmic technologies or automated decision-making with participants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Australian Green's recommendation 5: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes NDIS access and planning decisions are not made using algorithmic technologies or in an automated manner. The NDIA uses data to assist in the prioritisation of work and to support staff in making decisions by providing benchmarks. This approach is consistent with that used more broadly within an insurance context to enable efficient decision making. It is important to note that a human is still required to review all available information and make a determination.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend the NDIA take steps to ensure financial transparency, including making available to the public the full Annual Financial Sustainability Reports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to Australian Greens recommendation 6: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the 2022-23 Annual Financial Sustainability Report was released on 8 December 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 23 of the NDIS Review to measure what matters, build an evidence base of what works, and create a learning system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7. Australian Greens—The Australian Greens recommend that NDIA planners and coordinators are trained to engage with participants about relationships, gender, and sexual expression goals during the development of plans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Australian Green's recommendation 7: Noted</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes NDIA staff are required to complete online training in Unconscious Bias, Diversity and Inclusion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also notes this recommendation overlaps with Recommendation 3 of the NDIS Review to provide a fairer and more consistent participant pathway and Recommendation 4 to support all people with disability to navigate mainstream, foundational and NDIS service systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is considering these issues further in response to the release of the final report of the NDIS Review in late 2023.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>94</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration By Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>94</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present reports in respect of the 2023-24 additional estimates.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>95</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legislation Committees</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present reports on the examination of annual reports tabled by 31 October 2023.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works, I present the committee's first report of 2024.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treaties Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties, I present the report on the committee's visit to India and Singapore from 10 to 16 December 2023.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I present <inline font-style="italic">Delegated legislation monitor</inline> No. 3 of 2024, together with ministerial correspondence received by the committee.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Law Enforcement Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Law Enforcement's visit to the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Dean Smith, the Chair of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills, I present <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny </inline><inline font-style="italic">digest</inline> No. 3 of 2024 of the committee, together with ministerial correspondence received by the committee. I seek leave to incorporate the document in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">As Chair of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills, I rise to speak to the tabling of the committee's <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny Digest 4 of 2024</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny Digest 4 of 2024</inline> reports on the committee's consideration of twelve bills which were introduced into the Parliament during recent sitting weeks, as well as amendments made to 1 bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the Digest, the committee has identified potential scrutiny concerns in relation to 3 newly introduced bills. The Digest also contains the committee's comments on recent ministerial responses in relation to 10 bills.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee welcomes undertakings made in relation to bills which partially address scrutiny concerns raised by the committee. These include undertakings to amend the Digital ID Bill 2023 to provide for the tabling of reports in Parliament, and a commitment by the Minister for Finance in relation to the Appropriation Bills (Nos 3 and 4) 2023-2024 to consider improving guidance on budget measures marked as not for publication. The committee thanks the Minister for Finance for her constructive engagement with the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In this Digest, the committee has commented on the retrospective validation or application of legislation in relation to an unusually high number of bills.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee has long-standing scrutiny concerns about provisions that have the effect of applying retrospectively, as it challenges a basic value of the rule of law that, in general, laws should only operate prospectively. The committee has a particular concern if the legislation may have a detrimental effect on individuals. In such cases the committee expects the explanatory materials to set out the reasons why retrospectivity is sought, whether any persons are likely to be adversely affected and the extent to which their interests are likely to be affected. As the purpose of such an explanation is to assist the committee, and ultimately the Parliament, to reach a conclusion as to the impact that a measure might have on personal rights and liberties, the proponents of legislation should take the broadest possible view of the interests that could be adversely affected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further, the committee expects that such analysis should take into account the possibility that the previous actions were not undertaken in accordance with the law regardless of the Government's views on the remoteness of this possibility. The detrimental impact could then be balanced against the policy justification for the validation provisions, of which the intention of the Parliament in enacting the provisions, and the remoteness of the possibility of legal invalidity would be relevant factors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This issue was highlighted by the committee in its comments on retrospective validation provisions in the Autonomous Sanctions Amendment Bill 2024. The Minister's response to the committee's scrutiny concerns indicated that no Australians or Australian business would likely be adversely affected as the bill confirmed the validity of existing sanctions listings. However, if the validity of the listings is in question, as evidenced by the inclusion of the validation provisions in the bill, an assessment of the adverse affect on people should not commence from the assumption of validity. Instead, in order to assist the committee, and ultimately the Parliament, to reach a conclusion as to the appropriateness of retrospective validation, information should be provided concerning its impact in the event that past actions were invalidly taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any litigation on foot and any past court decisions that the bill seeks to respond to should also be detailed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, I would also like to draw the Senate's attention to the committee's comments on the Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment Bill 2024.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill seeks to amend section 32B of the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Act 1997</inline>, which was inserted into the Act in response to the decision of the High Court in the <inline font-style="italic">Williams </inline>case. In that case, the Court held that, in most cases, the Executive requires statutory authority before it can enter into contracts and spend public money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The section purports to provide this statutory authority by providing for the Executive to make legislative instruments setting out how its own powers to contract and to spend are to be expanded. The amendments in the current bill seek to clarify that instruments may do so even where the power to enter into such contracts and spend money exists in other legislation. The bill also seeks to provide for retrospective validation of past spending in the event that the spending was not previously authorised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the explanatory memorandum to the bill states that the changes are wholly beneficial in operation by negating any risk of invalidity of payments, it is unclear to the committee that this is necessarily the case if a broad view of the types of interests that may be affected is taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In this instance, it appears to the committee that retrospective validation could impact the rights of people with an interest in challenging the validity of spending for a particular purpose. As such, it would be appropriate for the explanatory materials to weigh any detrimental affect the provision could have on the interests of people against the benefits of providing clarity and certainty. This would enable the Parliament to make a fully informed decision as to whether the retrospective validation proposed unduly trespasses on personal rights and liberties.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee has sought further advice in relation to when and how the need for the amendments proposed by the bill and the retrospective validation of past uses of the power under section 32B became apparent during the Department of Finance's review of the operation of the Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Apart from the appropriateness of the retrospective validation of past spending, the committee also has fundamental scrutiny concerns regarding the mechanism provided under section 32B of the Act. This is due to the insufficient parliamentary scrutiny and oversight of public expenditure involved, and the inappropriate delegation of legislative powers to the Executive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee is not persuaded by the Minister for Finance's advice to the committee that the fact that government spending has already been agreed to by the Government provides sufficient justification for the legislative provision. The committee considers that it is appropriately a matter for the Parliament to determine whether spending for a particular policy purpose should be so authorised. As such, the committee draws the attention of senators to the appropriateness of authorising, via regulation, the expenditure of public money.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I encourage all parliamentarians to carefully consider the committee's analysis contained in the Digest. With these comments, I commend the committee's <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny Digest 4 of 2024</inline> to the Senate.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Law Enforcement Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>96</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>96</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I rise as chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Law Enforcement to speak about the committee's report on its visit to the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation in Brisbane. The committee's recent visit and the report I present today reflect the committee's continued concern about online child exploitation.</para>
<para>In November last year, the committee presented a substantial report on its inquiry into law enforcement capabilities in relation to child exploitation. The report outlined the staggering scale of online child sexual exploitation and the challenges for law enforcement in this area. The committee made 15 recommendations to improve law enforcement's response to this crime.</para>
<para>In presenting today's report, the committee wishes to highlight the body of evidence and recommendations contained in its earlier report. Today's report also provides details about the committee's visit to the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation, known as the ACCCE.</para>
<para>The ACCCE is a collaborative hub with a specific focus on online child sexual exploitation. It is led by the Australian Federal Police and brings together expertise from across law enforcement, government agencies such as the Department of Home Affairs and AUSTRAC, as well as the private sector and civil society. During the committee's visit to the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation, we received a tour of the building and were briefed on several ACCCE work areas, including the Intelligence Fusion Cell, the Victim Identification Unit and the Online Child Safety Team.</para>
<para>The visit gave the committee an opportunity to observe the critically important work of the AFP and its partners. We were also able to speak directly with officers who undertake confronting, yet deeply valuable, work to protect our children in particular. We gained much insight from speaking about forensic analysis by the Victim Identification Unit to identify children so that they may be rescued from perpetrators. The careful design of the building, such as the collab space or separation between the high-risk area upstairs and the low-risk area downstairs, is so crucial to ensuring that officers can do their job in a safe environment and to the best of their ability. Upcoming challenges, though, are quite serious. Our committee's finding from our original report was only reinforced during our visit to this wonderful centre: end-to-end encryption and the real threat of live streaming remain a major concern for law enforcement members and members of our committee</para>
<para>I want to commend the dedicated officers and staff of the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation, led by Commander Helen Schneider. These individuals are relentless in their work and their determination to prevent child exploitation and to protect victims from further victimisation. They should be applauded. To give you an example of the sort of work that they do, they can work on a case for a decade, and they work on it continuously. They went through the details of one case with us. After 10 years, they finally got the perpetrator. It has been well reported in the media and is still going through the courts, so I won't go any further into that. Another example is that they had a tip-off from the United Kingdom about a perpetrator and the abuse of a child online. Within 48 hours, they had effected a rescue and charged the perpetrator in outback Western Australia. From a tip-off from law enforcement in the United Kingdom, they were able to arrest an Australian perpetrator in outback Western Australia.</para>
<para>The work that they do is time consuming, and all of those officers have available to them counsellors who are there in the workplace. The AFP are very specific in terms of the design of the building and the way that they are there to support those officers. Some officers we spoke to have been working in this field for a number of years. I think it's really important for the public to understand that there is no requirement that, as an officer of the Australian Federal Police, you must work in this unit.</para>
<para>What they do find, though, is that people make a request to go there. However, if you do transfer into that area and you find that it's not really suitable for you, then you can transfer back out of there. That's because the reality is that the work that they do each and every day is about protecting children. When they finally break a case and a perpetrator is arrested, that's one element of it, but the most important element is to rescue those children. The sad reality is that, while they can—and do—ensure that perpetrators who are perpetrating these despicable crimes on babies and children can be identified in Australia, their focus is on making sure that those children are rescued. So it is very important work that's being done.</para>
<para>I want to place on record not only my appreciation. I know I speak for all committee members who were able to take the opportunity to visit the centre in thanking Deputy Commissioner Lesa Gale, Commander Schneider and all of those officers who took time out of their busy day to talk with us, to discuss the type of work that they are undertaking and also to talk to the social support that is there for them in terms of ensuring their own mental health. Can I just say, the dedication that has been demonstrated by the officers that we have both met with and had evidence from in this inquiry is just amazing. It's not a job for everyone, but unfortunately in this country it's a job that we need to continue to be very diligent with, because it just seems like every other week we're reading or seeing in the media—through social media and written forms of media—about perpetrators being arrested.</para>
<para>Again, I want to commend this report to all the senators in this place and to others who are listening to this broadcast. The work that is undertaken by the Australian Centre to Counter Child Exploitation is essential, critical work. It's about protecting and rescuing Australian children. They work with international partners, because, as we know, there's a big wide world out there, and there is organised crime involved is this exploitation of our children. So our responsibility here is to work with international law enforcement, where we can, to help identify other children in other countries, and, likewise, they work together to help us. As I said, there was a prime example of that from the United Kingdom, in terms of how quickly they were able to act. But there are other cases that they work on for years. You can imagine the amazing relief when they're able to rescue children from this exploitation. That is why we have concerns with social media and end-to-end encryption about how much more difficult that is going to be. My view is that our children deserve to be protected. Their privacy and their safety are more important than end-to-end encryption for people who want to use social media. I commend the report to you, and I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>98</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>98</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the government response to the report of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Disability Insurance Scheme on its inquiry into the capability and culture of the National Disability Insurance Agency, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>98</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>98</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>98</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the additional estimates reports of 2023-24 tabled by the government whip.</para></quote>
<para>In particular, I wish to take note of the Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee's additional estimates report of 2023-24. It is quite disappointing that we have a government led by a Prime Minister who promised to be the most transparent ever but yet is actually the least transparent government since federation. I'll give you an example of this. There were 259 questions put on notice following the cross-portfolio on Indigenous matters in our budget estimates on 9 November 2023. This was part of the supplementary budget estimates. Only 96 of these questions had been answered by 16 January this year, despite the deadline for answers being 15 December 2023. Indeed, for the cross-portfolio Indigenous matters, the government had answered only 115 of the 259 questions that were put just one week prior to the 2023-24 additional budget estimates of the Finance and Public Administration Committee that was held on 16 February of this year.</para>
<para>It gets far worse. To continue to avoid scrutiny, the remaining 142 questions that were outstanding—and outstanding for some months—were answered, rather amazingly, the night before. Between 5.37 pm and 6.34 pm the night before the cross-portfolio Indigenous matters estimates hearing was due to meet, these questions were answered. I want to highlight the work of highlighting and asking the government about the expenditure of public moneys in relation to the cross-portfolio Indigenous matters that coalition senators have done—and I want to acknowledge the work of Senator Nampijinpa Price and Senator Liddle in relation to the questions they put, along with other coalition senators—and highlight the fact that the coalition senators were only informed that their outstanding questions on notice had been answered just nine minutes before the estimates hearings commenced, despite the deadline being two months previous. Indeed, the answers to the questions on notice were only published 90 minutes after the cross-portfolio Indigenous matters hearing had already begun.</para>
<para>This is not just disappointing; it is disrespectful of the democratic process. It is disrespectful of the role of this chamber. Indeed, it is disrespectful of those Indigenous Australians who want crossbench senators and coalition senators to put forward questions and issues in relation to the expenditure of public moneys. It is disrespectful to the concerns of Indigenous Australians. We should not forget that this is a government that wasted $450 million on a divisive voice referendum last year yet fails to be able to answer, in many cases, quite simple questions that have been put by my colleagues, Senator Liddle and Senator Nampijinpa Price. This is the disrespect that the Prime Minister of this country and the members of the executive have not just for the estimates process but for Indigenous Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I concur with the comments made by Senator McGrath. It was an absolute insult. It is an insult to me, as an Indigenous parliamentarian and senator, and to my colleague Senator Liddle, in our attempts to get any answers during Senate additional estimates, given the fact that answers from previous estimates were provided at the eleventh hour. It's also insulting, given that this government's plan for Indigenous Australians was basically to outsource policy to the very expensive concept of a voice to parliament, even when we have very capable members of our parliament—of course, in the coalition there's Senator Liddle and me, and there's various other members of this parliament—who are Indigenous. But this government clearly doesn't trust what we have to offer this chamber or the lower house. This task basically demonstrated that this government had no plan for the voice's failure.</para>
<para>It's not a surprise, really, considering that they like to hide from scrutiny. We've seen that over and over again. Despite this behaviour, the Albanese government cannot hide from the growing case that we require an audit. The ANAO investigations found accounting deficiencies and irregularities with all of the land councils in the Northern Territory. Anindilyakwa Land Council is currently being investigated over the Winchelsea mine. We have just had the recent standing down of the now former CEO of the Northern Land Council Joe Martin-Jard over scandals that were uncovered during the last estimates. We have the situation where Voyages has been listed in the MYEFO as a quantifiable contingent liability. We've seen that NAAJA is failing in the Northern Territory, with only one full-time lawyer out of 17 in Alice Springs and no new clients since November. Seventy-five Indigenous Australians had to represent themselves, and 21 have been remanded. May I remind this chamber that these aren't people whose first language is English, and they have to represent themselves in the justice system.</para>
<para>Now there's a new housing agreement with the Territory government, despite the Territory government being $500 million behind in its existing agreement. There's $250 million that has supposedly been invested into Alice Springs to restore law and order. Well, that's a damn joke. Actually, it's not a joke. It's quite a sad and horrific situation because an 18-year-old died just the other week in a stolen vehicle that was occupied by eight youths. We've seen footage today of young girls driving a stolen vehicle in the Northern Territory and crashing it. So what's happened with that $250 million? We won't know. We don't get answers during Senate estimates, and we continue to be told by this government that, despite their lack of transparency and accountability, we don't require an audit.</para>
<para>Instead they like to lead with this romanticism of Aboriginal culture. We get up here and we make our acknowledgements every day like throwaway lines that don't really matter, because nothing's changing on the ground. I don't know why we bother, to be quite honest. Infantilised traditional owners—quite often they're disregarded unless they want to carry on the agenda of this government or others on the crossbench. I certainly know that traditional owners feel like they've been failed by many, particularly in calling for this audit, including by Senator David Pocock himself. Traditional owners have told me that they've attempted to approach him on many occasions, but he's just not interested. The racism of separatism and the tyranny of low expectations trap our youths and deprive them of choice and ensure that traditional owners will be land rich but dirt poor. It's the only way forward that we see this government continue to try to proffer.</para>
<para>We, the coalition, note our concerns about the 259 questions that were put on notice to the cross-portfolio on Indigenous matters prior to 9 November as part of the 2023-24 supplementary budget estimates. Only 96 were answered by January even though the deadline for answering was December. Indeed, the cross-portfolio on Indigenous matters only answered 115 of the 259 questions. Is it really a priority of this government to support our most marginalised Indigenous Australians when they don't want to take any advice from their Indigenous parliamentarians, who are close to the action? It's an absolute disgrace. They'd rather avoid scrutiny through the estimates process—through every process.</para>
<para>As I keep saying, it is an absolute insult to be provided those 142 remaining answers to questions on notice the night before or, for those of us who were about to go into estimates, nine minutes before we entered. Then, of course, we have to ask questions relating to matters that are provided in those answers, which we cannot be across because it's provided to us nine minutes before we go in. This behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, particularly when our most marginalised Australians—who, let me remind this chamber, are Australian citizens—are treated in this way through the structures that are supposed to be there to improve their lives.</para>
<para>For some of you, they might just be another group of Australian citizens. For some of us, they are our family members who are dying—literally dying. They are children whose lives are lost, gone, children who are either fast tracked to incarceration, who've experienced the highest rates of sexual abuse in this country. Yet, again, it's another reminder of how this government continues to fail Indigenous children is that they don't want a royal commission into the sexual abuse of Indigenous children in remote communities. It's okay for institutional sexual abuse victims, but not if you're Indigenous in this country and it's occurring within your community. 'You're not as important,' is what this government tells those victims. Those victims, who come to me on a regular basis, crying out for support from those who have been elected to provide that support.</para>
<para>The absurdity continues through the processes that are supposed to provide support and help. But you know what it's doing? We see those organisations get out there with their buses shipping Aboriginal people from town camps to voting booths during elections—election in, election out—with their 'how to vote for Labor cards'. We all know it, don't we Senator Liddle? We've seen it. Those organisations are well funded. There's no transparency, no scrutiny and no accountability. This government doesn't want an audit because we'd uncover who's actually ensuring the gap continues to exist, who are the most powerful in this country and yet those who want to maintain the status quo for the benefit of ensuring a Labor government is returned to power either federally or in the Territory.</para>
<para>That's what's going on and that's what this government doesn't want the Australian people to understand or to be uncovered through a process. We just want to see our most marginalised, those that we love, we want to stop burying them, we want to see their lives being improved. It's our job to do that. Every single one of us in this chamber has that responsibility through the processes that we have and the power that the Australian people have invested in us.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course I agree with Senator McGrath and Senator Nampijinpa Price, and the reason is—well, it's easy—the lack of accountability and transparency in following the money trail of Commonwealth taxpayer money which is being handed out in the billions. Yet all the while the Albanese government and its agencies continue to provide exorbitant cover. You could really argue they are rewarding a failure to provide good governance.</para>
<para>Nine minutes before Senate estimates. It's outrageous. When you don't want to ask questions about organisations that receive taxpayer money and when you don't want to provide the answers, you are supporting double standards, different standards. It's not good enough and, in fact, it's discriminatory. You could certainly argue that without good governance you can't deliver to maximum effect.</para>
<para>Let's look at what I'm talking about. The Registrar of Aboriginal Torres and Strait Islander Corporations oversees the CATSI Act. It's their job to make sure that these organisations meet all their legislative obligations. Under this government, they're quite happy to hand out money to organisations that don't meet even the basic obligations of good governance. If you get taxpayer money, you'd hope that there's some confidence that it's being spent to maximum effect, because it's there to help the most vulnerable people. Yet in March last year the registrar announced that 324 corporations had been deregistered. There have been a handful deregistered since. Today my office called ORIC to check on some of this terrible, terrible progress. The phone call began with a recording: 'Corporation reports are now overdue.' They are due each December.</para>
<para>I checked on Tangentyere Council Aboriginal Corporation in Alice Springs, an organisation that's a huge beneficiary of a lot of the money that went in after the removal of those alcohol restrictions without a proper transition plan, and now this government talks about making progress on fixing a position—a terrible position—that sent that Central Australian community into absolute turmoil. The numbers aren't better than they were before those alcohol restrictions were lifted. Tangentyere delivers programs and services to people in town camps. These are historical Aboriginal suburbs. Here's some truth-telling: not everyone lives in a town camp; a few thousand people do. It's ridiculous to put all the money into a few key organisations—and, worse, to put it into organisations that don't even comply with basic reporting requirements. Tangentyere received additional funding announced by Minister Burney in the past 12 months of $2.5 million for access to education and $3 million for core funding. We spent some time trying to discover if they had met their governance responsibilities, as I mentioned earlier. The best we could find was a financial report from 2021. So much for transparency! So much for accountability!</para>
<para>There is a victim when these services aren't delivered to the highest possible delivery, and they are the most vulnerable. They are the people that don't complain. I've been watching for years. I don't live in inner-city Sydney. I was born and raised in Alice Springs. I've spent time out bush, not just flying in and flying out, driving in and driving out. I can tell you that, with this money that you're giving to the land councils, they are creating a drive-in drive-out industry of their own. The money that you're pouring in in a big headline that is going to the land councils is going to programs where they deliver services into communities, and that's where the investment should be. You can't be leaders in a remote community when the very tools that allow you to have the artefacts for showing that leadership and for supporting the leadership in those communities exist in Alice Springs, exist in Darwin and exist a long way from where you actually live and from where the actual leadership should be.</para>
<para>When I looked for those financial year reports from Tangentyere, I couldn't find them. Tangentyere's own website only shows its latest annual report as being 2017-18. How is that possible? And how is it possible you continue to pour money in? This is one organisation. There are many good Aboriginal organisations delivering services. There are also many organisations who are not Aboriginal organisations delivering good services. I know you would have us believe that Aboriginal community controlled organisations are the only way to deliver to Aboriginal people, but that is not the case. They deserve the best service delivery. Those organisations doing the right thing, those organisations delivering to the people, those organisations that don't invest in the assets such as big Toyotas, big hotels and big conference stays—they're the ones who have nothing to fear, and they exist. An audit would identify those ones that need to do things differently. You don't need any more proof than the Closing the Gap results.</para>
<para>So here we are, asking for an audit into those organisations that receive funding to support the most vulnerable. As I said, those organisations that do the right thing have absolutely nothing to fear. Come forward! Tell us about the great work you're doing but also tell us about and expose those ones that aren't doing great work.</para>
<para>NAAJA was mentioned by my fellow senator before. Can you imagine being an Aboriginal person in the Northern Territory—where English might be your third language, where you haven't had a great education and where you are vulnerable because of poverty and because of access—going into the legal system and trying to represent yourself? How long would it take you to work out that that was a human rights abuse? You knew really early on. Your minister had to have known because it was all over the newspapers that there were problems at that organisation.</para>
<para>Since I came into this place nearly two years ago, I've seen report after report into organisations that deliver to the most vulnerable: in South Australia, Aboriginal people in aged care; in the Northern Territory, Aboriginal people who receive legal services. Then I watched in horror a couple of weeks ago when, through Empowered Communities, all of this money went into Ceduna and the surrounding area, post removal of the cashless debit card. Yet, with all the public servants flying in and with all of those program providers in that little town, nobody thought to respond appropriately to a heap of videos circulating of girls bashing the hell out of each other in very public areas.</para>
<para>You know what your solution is? The Albanese government's solution is: 'Let's just put more money in. Let's not put accountability on those organisations to do their jobs, to prevent the need for more money to go into those communities.' You can talk about that same model in Western Australia. You can talk about that same model in Queensland, in the Northern Territory and in South Australia. You have to get more accountability to stop the money flowing in that delivers almost nothing. People depend on that. Children depend on it. Old people depend on it.</para>
<para>It's discriminatory to treat people differently based on their race. It's not okay to think it's okay for millions of taxpayer dollars to go into these organisations and for there not to be any accountability. It's on public show. There are no annual reports. You can't put in your glossy photos that say, 'Hey, look; we're all here and we're all doing the right thing', when you don't provide the basic information that proves that you are.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to respond to the comments that have been made today. I totally agree with the comments made by Senator Liddle and Senator Nampijinpa Price. I first spoke about this 28 years ago, as a candidate and then as a member of parliament. I have been calling out the corruption, the lies, the inequality in the system and the treatment of one race of Australians against another race of Australians. It's racism. That's exactly what it is. There are inequalities in our system.</para>
<para>Why have we allowed it to go on? When I was in parliament in 1996, it was brought to my attention that the plan was to create a nation within the nation, based on what happened in Canada with Nunavut and the Inuit people. That was the plan for Australia. Successive governments haven't addressed this and have left the Aboriginal people in poverty stricken areas with low life expectancy. Their conditions are horrendous. The children are abused. The sexual abuse is disgusting. There are the education levels, the incarceration and the health systems, yet the leaders of this nation, even Anthony Albanese, cry out in this chamber time and time again saying that they want to help them but they're really not—not at all. You're allowing it to go on.</para>
<para>What Senator Nampijinpa Price said about the vote and the Labor Party—you are; you have done it for years. You've actually paid for the Aboriginal vote through the handouts that you've given them over the however many years now that it has been going on. You round them up, you take them to the polling booth, you actually tick off the names, you go into the nursing homes, and they have no idea what they're doing. You're allowing this to go on. It is absolutely disgusting what you've allowed to happen.</para>
<para>I kept calling out—actually, it was last year when this was brought to my attention; an investigation by the Department of Social Services into the aged-care sector, especially in South Australia, of people who were, again, found to be corrupt and are still employed in the aged-care sector—that I wanted to table documents in this parliament. But you would not allow it. You don't answer questions. I've written to the Prime Minister. I've written to Minister Burney. I get no response whatsoever. You're not forthcoming to the questions that are asked. Either that's incompetence or you've got something to hide. But you certainly don't care. You don't care what is going on in this country.</para>
<para>I'd like to really know how many of you, members in this parliament, mainly the Labor Party and the Greens and David Pocock, have actually, physically, visited these Aboriginal communities, been in their towns, gone to their schools, gone to their homes, spoken to them? Do you really know what's happening to these people? You've handed over power to a few in this nation, a few that have benefited from it, benefited to the extent of ownership of houses, cars and assets, which a lot of other people would never dream of having. You've allowed that to happen without any investigation. How did they get their wealth? How did they become so powerful? Why is it that people in these communities—one Aboriginal community leader said to me, 'Pauline, we can't even go on the native title land without the permission of Murrandoo Yanner. We can't even go there, on our own land. We're denied the rights.' There's another thing that I was told: he was given $1 million to set up a tour, to buy a boat on the river, which was never taken out. Where's the investigation into that? There are many, many cases that have been put out there. No-one cares.</para>
<para>Are you aware of the children in the streets? I'm talking about kids of about four or five years of age in the streets at night. Do you know where they go? They sit outside the school. That's in Doomadgee. You probably don't know where that is, but, anyway, it's in Far North Queensland—an Aboriginal community. They actually are sitting out there in the streets. I said, 'Why are they there?' They said, 'Because of the dysfunctional homes. Because they're in fear, they'd rather be on the streets at night than in their dysfunctional homes.' That is with either their family members, neighbours or whatever, with the sexual abuse, the alcohol abuse—that goes on. Then you have the children brought into this world because of the drugs and their drug dependency. Even with babies that are born, there is drug dependency. The sexual abuse, even on babies—and you won't even have a royal commission into it? It's an absolute disgrace.</para>
<para>What do I have to say—you talk about how you want to hear from the Aboriginal people. You want a voice to parliament. You actually have Aboriginal senators in this place that are screaming out for this, and you want a voice to parliament? You have your voice to parliament here, but you're completely ignoring it. You're completely ignoring these Aboriginal women that are calling out to represent their people—this is happening to them. You just turn a deaf ear to it. You disgust me. You absolutely disgust me. The majority of Australians, regardless of their racial background, are also crying out for the Aboriginal kids that are mistreated. They want to see a difference. They want accountability for their taxpayer dollars.</para>
<para>It's estimated that over a trillion dollars has been poured into this industry over the last 30 or 40 years. You set up the organisation ATSIC. It was only after it was complained about as a corrupt organisation that finally you got rid of it. That's what it was, and you wanted to set up another corrupt organisation with a voice to parliament which would do absolutely nothing. Now your Labor parties around the country are setting up your bodies for treaties in each state. What's that going to do? Absolutely nothing. More taxpayer funds will go into them, and they will make absolutely no difference whatsoever to the lives of these people.</para>
<para>We need to treat everyone in this country on an equal basis—based on needs, not race. We are all Australians together. That's the only way that you'll start to close the gaps. That's when the real benefits will be seen. Don't treat people differently because of their race; look at their needs. These very wealthy people can go and claim benefits. They don't need it, because they're millionaires, but that means absolutely nothing to you. Look at the ones that are living in shambles. Look at the poor kids in these communities who don't get a decent feed and don't get looked after. Look at the abuse that happens to them and at their health conditions.</para>
<para>I tell you what. If you'd like to go to some of these communities in Queensland, please come knocking on my door. I'd be glad to take you. I'm sure that Senator Price and Senator Liddle would also dearly love to take you out to Alice Springs. Maybe it will open up your eyes a bit and you'll see what is really happening out there. The Prime Minister couldn't even be bothered going out there for more than a few hours. He was more interested in going to see the tennis regardless of the crime that is happening on the streets. People are leaving Alice Springs. They don't want to live there anymore. Because of the escalating crime, they're in fear of walking down the streets. It's not a place where they want to live anymore. Did you know that Alice Springs is the capital of the world for stabbings? Disgusting, isn't it?</para>
<para>You really don't get it. You don't understand what the hell is happening in our country. Until you treat people equally, get accountability and cut the head off the snake using its venom to get whatever it can out of the people for its own benefit, nothing will change in this nation. Be the representatives for this nation that you were elected to be. Do it without fear or favour. I'd like to see some backbone in this place for a change instead of people always hiding behind the party. For Christ's sake, stand up and show some backbone, will you?</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>102</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Offshore Petroleum Safety and Environmental Management Authority</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table documents relating to the order of the Senate of 6 December 2023 concerning plugged and abandoned wells.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>102</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation (Objective) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7111" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Superannuation (Objective) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>103</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The bill that I introduce today will enshrine an objective of superannuation in legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It defines the objective as: <inline font-style="italic">to preserve savings to deliver income for a dignified retirement, alongside government support, in an equitable and sustainable way.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This simple and straightforward objective will serve as a guide for future governments, regulators, industry, and the wider community—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Instilling greater confidence in the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia has a world class superannuation system that is the envy of countries across the globe.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But for the last ten years super policy has been costly, confused and chaotic.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those opposite raided the superannuation system for their own purposes with a devastating impact on the retirement savings of millions of Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Around $36 billion in savings meant to last a lifetime were drained out of super accounts in a matter of months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legislating an objective of super will help prevent this sort of short-sightedness ever happening again -</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Making sure the focus of super is on the best interests of members, and not on those interested in ideological battles.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The objective will help ensure super delivers on its foundational promise of providing a dignified retirement for more Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will secure super's future by embedding its purpose into law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will ensure that any future changes to the superannuation system will support its objective, not supplant it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill does this by requiring Ministers to produce a statement to Parliament explaining how any proposed changes to super are compatible with its purpose.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Policymakers will be held to account when considering changes that affect Australians' retirement savings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The objective will not alter superannuation trustees' existing obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Super funds will continue to be required to make investment decisions in the best financial interests of their members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation also doesn't change the ability of members to get early access to their super on compassionate grounds or in cases of financial hardship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For trustees, the objective will serve as a reminder of their role to support members during their working life and into retirement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And with more Australians approaching retirement age than at any time in our history, delivering better retirement incomes has never been more important.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is an important next step towards a stronger super system for a stronger economy and it has been met with strong industry support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that superannuation is a significant source of capital -</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It contributes to the strength of our financial markets—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And there are opportunities to leverage superannuation investment in areas of national economic priority where it aligns with the best financial interests of members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Having a clear, legislated objective of super will help ensure these broader benefits of super can be maximised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will be a defining decade for our nation, and that demands defining the role of superannuation—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To protect the gains that have been made and pursue its greater potential.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Labor built super, we'll protect it and make it the best it can be to ensure it continues to deliver dignity in retirement for generations of Australians to come.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>104</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>104</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>104</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 1 May 2024:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The implications of Glencore's proposed carbon capture and storage (CCS) project by its subsidiary, Carbon Transport and Storage Corporation (CTSCo), in the Great Artesian Basin, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the environmental impact assessment process and the adequacy of the project's approval by federal and state regulatory bodies, including the decision not to classify the project as a controlled action under national environment law;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the potential risks and impacts of the project on the groundwater quality within the Great Artesian Basin, especially concerning the findings related to the acidification of groundwater and mobilisation of heavy metals such as lead and arsenic;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the scientific basis and transparency of the data supporting the project's safety claims, including the robustness of fieldwork, data, and analysis presented by CTSCo and critiques by independent hydrogeologists and aqueous geochemists;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the potential socioeconomic impacts on agriculture and regional communities, relying on the Great Artesian Basin for water, including an assessment of the project's impact on existing and future water use rights;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the consultation processes undertaken with stakeholders, including farmers, Indigenous landholders, environmental groups, and the broader public, and the adequacy of these processes in addressing stakeholder concerns;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the potential precedent set by allowing CCS projects within the Great Artesian Basin and its implications for future projects, considering Australia's strategic interests in preserving its largest groundwater system;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the role of CCS technology in Australia's broader climate change mitigation strategy, including an evaluation of its efficacy, risks and alternatives; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>Today I seek to refer a matter to the Senate Environment and Communications References Committee that has profound implications for the future of regional Australia. For some time now farmers have been raising very serious concerns about a trial to capture carbon dioxide and store it in the Great Artesian Basin. This three-year trial has been proposed by a subsidiary of the multinational coalmining company Glencore.</para>
<para>The trial proposes to capture waste carbon dioxide emissions from the Millmerran Power Station in Queensland, turn it to a supercritical fluid and inject up to 330,000 tonnes of it into the Precipice Sandstone aquifer. This aquifer is more than two kilometres deep. It's inside the Great Artesian Basin, one of the most important natural resources in Australia. If the Great Artesian Basin was a country, it would be the 17th-largest in the world at more than 1.7 million square kilometres. It's one of the largest groundwater basins on the planet, with almost 65 million gigalitres of water—enough to fill the Sydney Harbour about 130,000 times over. It mainly covers Queensland, New South Wales and South Australia, and part of the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>Long before British settlement, springs of water emanating from the basin allowed Indigenous communities to travel and trade and survive in Australia. When it was discovered by settlers in the 1870s, it was quickly realised it was a vital water resource for the dry Australian interior. Since then it has been essential in the development of our agricultural and mining industries, and for hundreds of regional, rural and remote communities. Water from the basin supports production worth almost $13 billion a year. It remains as essential today as it has always been. Australia is, after all, the driest inhabited continent on earth, and every source of fresh water is important. This is why I'm disturbed by the proposal to inject waste CO2 into the basin's water. I'm disturbed that, while recent research has improved our knowledge of the basin, there is still much to learn, and this makes for uncertain risks when introducing foreign material to the basin's groundwater.</para>
<para>Even the proponent company's own commissioned study found the project could cause levels of lead and arsenic in the groundwater to rise hundreds of times beyond the safe drinking water guidelines. This would be due to increased acidity caused by the injection of supercritical CO2 leaching these heavy metals from the surrounding rocks and spreading it throughout aquifers in the basin. I'm also advised by expert geologist Emeritus Professor Ian Plimer of the University of Melbourne that this could result in significant clogging of the cracks and fractures in the surrounding rocks, thereby limiting the places where bores can be placed or reducing the rate of flow in other bores.</para>
<para>I acknowledge that Glencore's subsidiary Carbon Transport and Storage Corporation has stressed that the groundwater in the precipice sandstone aquifer is already non-potable and so deep it would be expensive for a farmer to sink a bore. I acknowledge that some of the science says the risks of the project are minimal and manageable. However, the science on the basin is not complete and our farmers have been down this road before with fracking. They have legitimate concerns about the contamination of groundwater in the basin, so much so that Queensland's AgForce organisation has this week announced it would launch a legal challenge.</para>
<para>AgForce says it will seek a judicial review of the decision taken in 2022 that found that the project did not need to be assessed under the EPBC Act—the environmental protection act. AgForce says confidence in our food supply is at genuine risk because of the proposal. I agree with them, although there are many more genuine risks to our food supply thanks to Labor's multiple attacks on Australia's world-leading agricultural sector. Let's list some of them: ending live sheep exports that support thousands of regional jobs; crippling energy and fuel costs; farmland polluted by 28,000 kilometres of transmission lines, thanks to Labor's suicidal net zero policy; Labor's terrible 'closing the loopholes' legislation, destroying casual and seasonal employment and forcing a great deal more red and green tape on farmers; and Labor and the Greens forcing more water from irrigators through devastating buybacks that destroy communities in the Murray-Darling Basin for no environmental benefit.</para>
<para>Labor has an opportunity here to show some belated support for our struggling farmers. Labor has an opportunity here to protect one of the most important natural resources in this country. It's clear to me that a great deal less potential harm would come from simply letting the CO2 enter the atmosphere than pumping it into the Great Artesian Basin. At least it would benefit the crops and pastures being grown by our farmers. This project is a bit of a canary in the coalmine. Its success or failure will have implications for similar projects in the future. We know there are already some existing applications. Glencore is just the start. Glencore is the first, but how many others will be given the right to dispose of their CO2 in the basin?</para>
<para>Of course none of this would be happening if the major parties weren't grovelling to climate change zealots and pursuing the net zero fantasy. This fantasy drives policy into ridiculous outcomes like vast areas of pristine rainforest being cleared for wind farms. Wind turbines—they're not a 'farm'. To call them that is destroying the word 'farm'. They are wind turbines, and they are destroying the environment in order to save it. What a joke that is! The Greens cry out the loudest in this place about the environment, yet I don't hear them screaming out against the wind turbines that are actually resulting in the clearing of hundreds of thousands of acres of land. There is clearing of rainforest, destroying habitats and flora and fauna, and you say nothing about it. It does more damage, but you keep putting them up. Then there is the fear of fire, if they catch fire—which they do.</para>
<para>Then you destroy prime agricultural land to put up your solar panels. That's another disgraceful act that I see happening throughout Queensland and the rest of the country. Farmers can't clear the land to grow crops, but you can clear the land to put in solar panels. There is no problem with that. Let's clear the land. You stop people from moving a tree off their land for some reason or other, but let's clear the land to put up solar panels and wind turbines. None of this is saving anything. It's not helping to reduce the world's carbon dioxide emissions, which is supposed to be the ultimate goal of the net zero fantasy—and fantasy is exactly what it is. Global emissions continue to rise.</para>
<para>It is not saving us any money. It costs us billions in taxpayer subsidies and it is driving more Australian households into poverty, thanks to record-high energy costs. We went through this carbon capture stuff before with last year's sea dumping bill. The idea that natural formations can form permanent, perfectly sealed storages from which CO2 won't eventually escape is ludicrous. Nature is not that perfect, despite what the Greens would have us believe. They are on about it again today, crying their crocodile tears about 2023 being the hottest year on record. Since when? They only started taking records in around 1910. The end of the 18th century here was so hot. You don't want that recorded, because it would prove that temperatures were hotter then than they are today. We didn't have industrialisation. We didn't have the built-up cities, so actually you have to just get rid of all those records that go back only as far as 1910.</para>
<para>Planet Earth is more than 4½ billion years old and the evidence is undeniable that it has been both much hotter and much cooler in the past due to influences that have nothing to do with us humans. We have been on Earth for only—what, 300,000 years? But that doesn't stop Greens activists from traumatising our children with confected tales of global doom, and the Labor Party have gone along with this as well. As I've said, the sea dumping bill debate last year was disgraceful, and I spoke about it. There is no place in the world where it has worked—where it has stayed captured. We went along with this. When I asked the minister if commercial arrangements could be made with other countries to bring their rubbish out here, she wasn't interested. She said, 'No, those are commercial arrangements with the companies and nothing to do with us.' It has everything to do with the Labor Party, because you have allowed it in your legislation for sea dumping to happen in Australia. That is why it has a lot to do with you.</para>
<para>It is the same with allowing CO2 to be dumped in the Great Artesian Basin. We don't know the risks. The science is not clear on this. If you allow this to happen, you could destroy the Queensland farming sector, communities, towns' drinking water—we don't know. Are you prepared to play around with that? Are you prepared to take the risk? Well, most of you will probably be going out the back door in the next few years, so it would be no concern of yours: 'Let the future generations deal with that; it is no concern of ours.' You're more interested in the next election, in getting yourselves elected again to protect your jobs without looking to the future of this country and at what is happening.</para>
<para>Five mayors across Queensland have actually said they are against this. They are saying, 'Don't allow this to happen; stop.' Glencore is just the start of it. If they go through this trial and are allowed to dump then that will be the start of all these other organisations dumping CO2. As I said, it would be 330 tonnes of this supercritical waste and nobody here can tell me that would not be a risk. It is one hell of a risk.</para>
<para>We only have so much water on this earth, so much water in Australia. The government have done nothing to improve our water supply in this nation. You haven't built more dams or anything. You have let it slide. You are for high immigration. You have not prepared for the future, for increased population growth. If you allow this to happen and this destroys our artesian basin, what is your plan then? Oh, that's right—Labor never have a second plan; they don't know where to go after that. You always blame the previous government—it is their fault—for what has happened and what has gone wrong, because you don't think ahead. You have no idea how to plan for the future. You are absolutely hopeless at what you do.</para>
<para>I'm putting this up for the vote. Common sense should prevail here, that you do not allow this to go ahead, that you stop it from happening. I hope the Greens are on board with this. If they don't support this motion for it to go to an inquiry, they're hypocrites. They're absolute hypocrites if this is not supported. They're always screaming about the environment, always screaming about fracking and always screaming about the damage to our country and all the rest of it. So I hope that the Greens actually vote for this to go to an inquiry so we can have an investigation into this. I hope Senator David Pocock is watching. Senator Pocock has always got control of the Senate here. I hope that he sees common sense and understands that it needs to go to an inquiry so that we can actually have a greater understanding of the implications that may happen.</para>
<para>I thank Professor Ian Plimer for the information that he's given me. This is a man with real knowledge who understands the science. He has informed me of the implications and what could happen. I am more prepared to listen to him than I am prepared to listen to the Labor Party in this chamber, who put spin on so many of the policies and wipe their hands of it and couldn't care less, because it's in the too-hard basket. I wish we'd get some people with some knowledge in this place. Honestly—the incompetence. You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to climate change and what's actually happening. You're just fearmongering.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor is always supportive of Senate scrutiny of important environmental matters. However, on this matter, the government won't be supporting this motion. There are a few issues that I'd like to draw to the attention of the chamber. It's been an interesting hour, sitting here listening to the debate and watching what's happening on the other side of this chamber. It confirms a few interesting things, that have been going on, on what passes for the conservative side of Australian politics these days.</para>
<para>I am old enough to remember a time when there was a difference between the One Nation party and the Liberals and Nationals. I'm old enough to remember a time when that difference mattered very much to a previous generation of Liberal and National party leaders, people who I wouldn't have agreed with in a pink fit on almost any question. But former Prime Minister John Howard understood the existential threat that far-right politics posed for the Liberal Party and the National Party. To her credit, Senator Hanson understood it well too. Former Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fischer understood it. Former senator Ron Boswell understood it. They understood really clearly what it meant for the national interest, but there is not a crack of daylight between the positions of these characters now—what passes for a conservative outfit in the Liberal and National parties.</para>
<para>I understand Senator Hanson's frustration at that. I understand it. There's a sort of relevance deprivation that occurs when the right-wing extremists in Mr Dutton's Liberal Party are becoming more and more. Why give coverage on the extreme right to Senator Hanson when you can go to Senator Antic, who now leads the Liberal Party ticket in South Australia or to Senator Rennick or to any of these other odd characters? That's something that there ought to be a little bit of reflection on over there. There's not any at the moment. You don't see the danger. That's the nature of these sorts of challenges. It's all bound up in the grievance politics and the culture war and all of that nonsense. That's what happens.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order: relevance is to the motion about the Great Artesian Basin. This has got nothing to do with who's at the top of the ticket in South Australia.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson. I'm actually going to uphold your point of order, Senator Hanson. Although debates, Minister—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order: at best, you could describe the previous contribution as wideranging, Mr Acting Deputy President McGrath, and my comments were directly relevant to the politics that are driving this.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think the chamber realises that I'm particularly soft, and I do enjoy a wideranging debate, but perhaps we could wander back to the motion that is before the chair at the moment, Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will precisely follow your direction and wander back to the direct proposition that is here. One of the issues that underlies this is that, for a request, such as the core proposition in Senator Hanson's motion, to be taken seriously, there must be consistency. When you end up being absorbed by all the right-wing, culture-war, alt-right, extremist nonsense, consistency stops mattering, because what you're worried about is the clicks. What you're worried about are all of the memes. What you're worried about are the earnest pieces to camera, frothing with indignation, about some made-up nonsense. That's what matters, not the substance, not the consistency.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, I imagine this is a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He's not wandering; he's meandering.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Roberts. Whether it's a wander or a meander, I would encourage everybody in the chamber to address their comments to the motion before the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course consistency matters. On this matter, who was the environment minister who decided that the carbon capture and storage project referred to in Senator Hansen's motion was not a controlled action? Who was that minister? It wasn't Minister Plibersek. It was Minister Ley in the previous government who decided that that was the case. The truth is that the processes that are allowed under the act mean that there is scope for judicial review of the former minister's decision. Now, I don't know whether this was a period when there were multiple ministers occupying this position, but it was Minister Ley who made that determination. I don't think she's out there issuing press releases, if that's what she did. But it is now before the Federal Court of Australia, and it wouldn't be appropriate to comment further on those proceedings.</para>
<para>In the contribution that I just heard there were claims made about water security in regional areas. The old adage is that members of the National Party, in particular, go around in the lead-up to elections making big claims about the dams that they're going to build and then disappoint their constituents by not delivering. Of course, they point the finger at everybody else.</para>
<para>I remember when Mr Joyce and Mr Abbott wandered around the country in 2013 saying they were going to build 100 dams. Very earnest and serious people, like Senator McGrath, who has been out talking about dams every day of the week, believed them, if I remember his contributions correctly. How many dams did they build? It was not five out of 100, not four out of 100 and not three out of 100. They built two out of 100. If they had built all of the dams that Mr Abbott and Mr Joyce said they would build, the sea level would be lower! It is an absolute hoax that is perpetrated on country communities by the National Party and others claiming that they are going to build infrastructure that they know they are never going to build. They had a decade. They promised country people they would build 100 dams. How many did they build? Two. They ought not be taken seriously on these questions ever again.</para>
<para>We should be clear about how disingenuous the Nationals are on this matter of Glencore. In June 2022 the Leader of the Nationals, Mr Littleproud, whose electorate this project is in, said on the <inline font-style="italic">Insiders </inline>program, 'Look about 60 kilometres west of where I'm sitting now, and carbon capture and storage has been implemented on a cool-fired power station'—Millmerran—'That's the investment the Morrison government made. It will be interesting to see how the Liberals and Nationals intend to vote on this proposition. It will be interesting to see whether it is Mr Littleproud last year or Mr Littleproud this year. Where are they? Are they for the carbon capture and storage technology that they say is essential to protecting the integrity of all of these projects that Senator McDonald and others wander around the country saying are so important? Are they fer it or are they agin' it?</para>
<para>The truth is they are both. They say one thing on Monday and another thing on Tuesday. On Wednesday it's a whole new ballgame because, in this world of far-right extremism and culture war nonsense, the facts have stopped mattering for them. They stopped mattering quite some time ago. If you can put it in a meme, it matters. That's where the Nationals are.</para>
<para>Now they want to pretend that they have nothing to do with this project that they were on television supporting in 2022, that the government they were part of didn't make decisions that meant that AgForce is out there seeking a judicial review. What is the Liberal and National Party position on this? Less than two years ago, Mr Littleproud was spruiking the project, saying that it protected gas but also protected our coal industry with carbon capture and storage. He was for it. Now, I guess, we'll find out if he is for it or against it.</para>
<para>So desperate is this show over here to try to cobble together a conservative coalition on energy policy that they are for the project and they're against it. No doubt we're about to hear a whole lot of stuff about how a giant nuclear power station in an unspecified place would resolve some of these issues. They won't be, I imagine, in marginal electorates that the Liberal and National parties seek to win at the next election. Whether we are talking about untested, experimental technology, in terms of the small nuclear modular reactors that they keep talking about or the big tens of billions of dollars 'never get done' nuclear reactors, so desperate are they to hold themselves together on energy policy that you end up with stunts like this that once again bring together One Nation, the Nationals and the Liberals on a course of action, resulting in a direction in energy policy that will lead only to higher bills, projects never being built, manufacturing going offshore, higher prices for consumers and higher emissions. Australia will be once again out in the cold in terms of investment and economic activity, reduced to the pariah-state status that Mr Morrison reduced the country to in our region and around the world.</para>
<para>It's the direction that those opposite are taking the show in. It is utter hypocrisy. It's utterly dishonest. It's 'say one thing one day and do another thing the next'. It is a complete betrayal of what that side used to say that they stood for, and the government's voting position on this particular motion will reflect our view of that.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is always a joy to hear Senator Ayres with this fanciful sort of commentary. It is fanciful. There are unicorns. There are fairies in the bottom of the garden. There are a few bogeymen. But it's always entertaining and, for that reason, we let him run on. What he didn't reflect on is something that I feel passionately about and that the National party, the Liberal Party, One Nation and people who understand this country feel passionate about, and that is water—the lifeblood of this country.</para>
<para>To hear these outrageous statements about dam-building from Senator Ayres reminded me of soon after the last federal election when Labor got in and I wept. I wept when I heard that the nine years of work that we had put in to establish proper funding for serious water projects, particularly in my part of the country in northern Australia, would be scrapped overnight for no reason, because that would remove the opportunity for the northern part of the country to build great agricultural projects, to secure regional and rural communities, and to advance manufacturing and the development of whatever we wanted, because we would have secure water. But overnight the minister removed that opportunity for northern Australia, ripped it away, because the Labor Party comrades, whether in Queensland, the Northern Territory or in Western Australia, made sure that dams weren't built. Under our Constitution, the states do have water control, and they made sure that these important water projects weren't built. In fact it was Mr Shorten from the other place who was in my home town and who told people there that the Labor Party didn't believe in dams because they were 19th-century technology. I wonder what he thinks captures water to store it during the times when it rains and to use it in times when it doesn't. But this is just one example. I don't want to get stuck on this, because Senator Ayres has led us up a garden path, and I've been distracted by his gobbledygook, but I do want to talk about water.</para>
<para>I rise to speak on the motion that proposes that the Environment and Communications References Committee inquire into the proposed carbon capture and storage project in the Great Artesian Basin. I grew up on subartesian water. I've probably pulled more windmills and seen more pumpjacks and broken rods and that sort of technology than most people. I understand how important the water supply and the security that it brings are to a farmer, to a grazier and to these communities. When I was in the Queensland government, I fought passionately and strongly for appropriate regulations to provide a balance for agriculture and CSG, when that was being developed in Queensland just over 10 years ago.</para>
<para>The establishment of the GasFields Commission provided that kind of transparency and the ability for farmers and graziers to make decisions on their land, on their farms, about what was good for the community. I thought that was work that was really well done. Properly managed, these things can coexist. It results in more successful communities. It results in money coming into the communities. It results in more services, more hospitals, more teachers and more police that service the agricultural communities in those regions. But it is important to get it right. How shocking it is to discover that the state Labor government in Queensland supported this trial project while at the very same time the other government department in that Labor government was giving out water licences to farmers. So, on the one hand, they're saying: 'This water is not potable and this is an excellent place for you to do this project. This is where you should do this trial.' But on the other hand, they're saying to farmers: 'Pay up, and we'll give you a licence.' That is shocking. That is a betrayal of good government that allows for these important industries to develop. And it was a lie. It was a lie to farmers and a lie to graziers, because at the same time they were saying that this was unpotable water that was suitable for this project.</para>
<para>We have been talking about a CCS project being trialled in a region where it should not have been allowed to be trialled. It's as simple as that. In regard to CCS, I'm sorry to differ with you on this, Senator Hanson, but I do believe in the CCS technology, mostly because I've just come back from the Canadian mining conference—30,000 miners from around the world—where they are using CCS to compete with us in places like Canada and where they've been using the technology for some time. They're using the technology in appropriate places—not in places where farmers are drawing on the same aquifer. That is not an appropriate place. In time, I believe that we will be able to have a successful industry in CCS in places offshore like those that Santos and INPEX are proposing.</para>
<para>But I don't want to be distracted from that because the point of the debate tonight is that we utilise a Senate inquiry—a very appropriate place—to shine a bright light onto this trial technology in an agricultural aquifer. This is the right place to do it, and it is for this reason that the coalition—the Liberal Party and the National Party, which fights every day for farmers, for agriculture and for the right to grow food; this is about growing food, the most important job on the face of the earth—stand and support this reference. We believe this is good government. This is transparency. This is the sort of transparency that you don't see from this government, which carefully asks people like leaders of church groups to sign non-disclosure agreements before they consider legislation and which introduces consultation on environmental legislation but says that you can't take the papers away and you have to transcribe by hand hundreds of pages of legislation. That's not transparency. That's outrageous. That is the darkest cloak of secrecy. What we believe in is a Senate inquiry.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>109</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Renewable Energy Industry: Forced Labour</title>
          <page.no>109</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today over 50 million people are enslaved—men, women and children. It's more than at any other time in human history. This servitude and exploitation of human labour and denial of human freedoms is a $150 billion industry and, shamefully, it is growing day by day. Profits are growing off the forced labour of millions who are trapped in slavery throughout the supply chain for critical minerals and metals and also in the production of clean energy technologies. Yes, these commodities are crucial to the energy transition. However, they are only as clean and as ethical as the energy and the components used in their production. Colleagues, this is not a secret. We cannot go green on the back of slave labour. We cannot go green on the backs of millions and millions of men, women and children and on the backs of those forced to mine the minerals and the rare earths and to fabricate the components of wind turbines, solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles. We must find ways to deal with both net zero and forced labour and slavery.</para>
<para>Australians have fought many wars to preserve our democratic freedoms and individual liberties in conjunction with our many friends and allies. Despite this, we are failing to fight for the freedom of these enslaved human beings: the children mining cobalt and rare earths; the millions of Uighurs interned in forced labour camps in Xinjiang; Tibetans who are forced into Chinese boarding schools and then shipped to China as labour; and North Koreans who are indentured to China as forced labour. They're used to process quartz for solar panel photovoltaic cells. They process lithium. They produce cathodes, anodes and lithium-ion battery cells. They process manganese for electric vehicle batteries. They smelt aluminium and copper. They process uranium, nickel and zinc. They manufacture the electric vehicles in Xinjiang that we drive here. The list of the commodities that they produce goes on and on.</para>
<para>This reliance on slave labour also distorts the markets for critical minerals and rare earths in favour of Chinese products. It provides an extraordinary competitive advantage for China. It also provides a clear security threat for us, for our friends and for our allies, as we simply cannot compete in the production of these goods that are made with slave labour. We are vulnerable to the strategic denial of all of these goods that use forced labour and slavery throughout their supply chains. We can and we must deal simultaneously with the energy transition and security and slavery issues. One cannot and must not come at the cost of the other. But it takes political will and leadership, not only here in Australia but with our friends and allies, to call this out and to take measures to stop human trafficking and strip out slavery from everybody's supply chains.</para>
<para>If we have the political will to work together, we can start by calling out slavery. We can do this by working with our friends and our allies to create alternative supply chains for mineral extraction, processing and manufacturing that are slavery free and do not provide a competitive advantage through enslavement, including in the production of wind turbines. It is not enough to preserve democracy and individual liberties in our own nations. We have to work together to preserve individual freedoms not only for our own children but for everyone's children. It is time to call out this silent acceptance by those net zero zealots who seem absolutely happy to say that the environment is a greater good. Well, it's not. People matter. We have to deal with both. The global transition to carbon net zero cannot come at the cost of human servitude. Together, we can call it out. It is time that we did.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Chinese Communist Party</title>
          <page.no>109</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Since this government was elected it has worked hard to fix up our trade relationship with China. That's good because it helps our farmers and fishers. Minister Wong met with the Chinese foreign minister today, and I hope they permanently lift the ban on Australian wine. I note that they've kept their ban on our Tassie crayfish. It hasn't moved an inch. So, yes, it's good for wine, but—and this is a big but—we can't take our eye off the ball when it comes to the Chinese Communist Party.</para>
<para>Ten years ago the Chinese president came to Tasmania. He had such a big entourage that two planes were needed just to get the Chinese delegation into Hobart. At the time, a talkback caller warned: 'We have got what they want and we shouldn't be rushing into anything too fast'—very wise words, which, of course, weren't heeded by the Tasmanian Liberal government. The Chinese Communist Party didn't just come to Tasmania to see the sights. They came because Tasmania is a gateway to Antarctica.</para>
<para>I have been told that the Chinese Communist Party delegation asked the then Premier if they could buy TasPorts. Thank God he woke up to that and said no. But, in exchange, the president was pointed to a nice bit of waterfront land in Hobart—Crown land owned by the Tasmanian people. Just four years later, in 2018, a Chinese Australian developer announced they were building a huge resort on Tasmania's east coast. The local community was told that the resort would have a golf course, a health centre and a pharmacy but that Tasmanians wouldn't be allowed into the resort. It was even advertised in China as a Chinese living experience in Tasmania. Thanks largely to community groups on Tassie's east coast, this development is certainly now well and truly toast.</para>
<para>But it shouldn't be communities that have to put up these fights. It should be our representatives in both our state and federal parliaments. I don't need to warn Chinese Australians about the Chinese Communist Party. They know it all too well. Last year, Vicky Xu, a journalist and fellow at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, told a Senate inquiry what she had suffered at the hands of Chinese communist agents working in Australia. Ms Xu has done extensive research on the Chinese government's re-education of its Uighur minority. She withdrew from appearing in the media due to what she called harassing, targeting and intimidating by the Chinese government and its fanatic supporters.</para>
<para>This is what's happening in Australia. It's happening here, where Chinese Australians should feel safe to criticise whoever they like. We need good trade relations with China. We need good trade relations with lots of other countries as well. But we can't let the Chinese communist government bully us. The only way to deal with a bully is to stand up to that bully. So, yes, our government have to walk a fine line, but they also have a responsibility to crack down hard on political and social interference coming from the Chinese Communist Party.</para>
<para>The Chinese government already has a foothold in some of our most prestigious universities. Fourteen of our universities have Confucius institutes. The institutes are funded by the Chinese Communist Party. The Morrison government held an inquiry in 2020, amid broader concerns about foreign interference in universities in Australia. ASIO told the inquiry that the university and higher education sector was a target and said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Hostile intelligence activity continues to pose a real threat to Australia, our sovereignty and our security.</para></quote>
<para>So what did the government do when they got this report? They decided to leave the decision about the openness of Confucius institutes in the hands of the universities and the University Foreign Interference Taskforce. I kid you not, Australians.</para>
<para>It's not only our universities I am worried about. Undersea fibre-optic cables transfer more than 95 per cent of international communications and data globally. Last May, a draft maritime cooperation agreement between China and the Solomon Islands was leaked. China's goal, it's stated, is to develop a maritime community with a shared future. In the same month it was reported that China had started talks with 10 nations in the South Pacific, with an offer to help them improve their network infrastructure and cybersecurity—what a load of rubbish!—all with the help of Chinese companies. Go figure it out, Australians. What do you think they want? The US government is also worried about China's ability to spy on it via subsea cables, and it has denied permission for four planned cables owned by Google, Meta and Amazon that would've connected the US and Hong Kong.</para>
<para>All governments now treat undersea cables as critical infrastructure. But what is the Australian government doing to protect undersea cables that support our communications and businesses? They are doing exactly the same thing that they did when they were warned about the Chinese Communist Party setting up shop in our universities. They're sitting at a desk with a blindfold on, waiting for it to go away. In other words, Australians, once again it doesn't matter what side of politics it is, when it comes to the Chinese Communist Party, no major party will do anything about it.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 19:40</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>