﻿
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2023-11-09</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Thursday, 9 November 2023</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That general business order of the day no. 61, Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023 and 3 related bills, be considered today at the time for private senators' bills.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Conduct</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before we move to the consideration of the private senators' bills, I have a statement to make about the review I undertook of debate on Monday night during which unparliamentary and personal reflections were made against a senator and a debate that took place yesterday. The Deputy President and I have taken the unconventional response in issuing a joint statement. This is because we are very determined to ensure that debate in this place is of the highest standard and that unparliamentary language and personal reflections against senators no longer have any place in this Senate chamber.</para>
<para>We are of the strong view that senators must take responsibility for their actions and their words. Of course, we do have standing orders that ensure that high standards are upheld, but ultimately what is said and done in this place is the responsibility of each and every senator. We urge senators to always withdraw any language and/or actions that offend others and to do so willingly. When party leaders spoke yesterday they reaffirmed the commitment to the standards and called on all senators to engage in debate respectfully and to refrain from inflammatory and divisive comments and to uphold mutual respect for each other in this chamber. I refer senators particularly to clause 11 of the code of conduct.</para>
<para>Yesterday I indicated that I would review Senator Hanson's speech on the Counter-Terrorism and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2023 and the debate that took place yesterday in relation to that speech. The review included that yesterday I had repeatedly directed Senator Hanson to withdraw remarks which in my view amounted to personal reflections upon Senator Faruqi. Yesterday evening Senator Hanson made a brief contribution in which she withdrew any remarks considered unparliamentary this week.</para>
<para>Standing order 193(3) prohibits offensive words, imputations of improper motives and personal reflections against senators and members.</para>
<para>It revolves around the idea that there should be constraints on language directed to other senators or members. This is intended to ensure that political debate is conducted in the privileged forum of parliament without personally offensive language.</para>
<para>It has been my practice in ruling on unparliamentary language, as it has been for previous Presidents, to try and create the space for senators to reflect on the language they use in the Senate and to comply with directions of the chair. It is extremely regrettable that Senator Hanson did not accept the opportunity to do so yesterday after I made a clear and direct ruling in respect of the personal reflections she made upon Senator Faruqi. Whilst I accept Senator Hanson's subsequent withdrawal, I remind all senators that they should comply with the directions of the chair in such matters.</para>
<para>It would be preferable for senators to show each other the courtesy they are due as equals here, representing the views and aspirations of the people who have elected them to this place. While the Senate is rightly a place for robust debate, the standing orders provide the foundation for that debate to be conducted in a respectful manner. This is particularly important when we are dealing with complex and sensitive topics.</para>
<para>I also remind senators that wherever possible points of order should be taken while the relevant proceedings are before the Senate. In my experience, it is far easier to deal with such matters as they arise, rather than trying to play catch-up days later. This approach is supported by standing orders, particularly standing order 197, which allows senators to interrupt debate to raise points of order in relation to matters before the Senate. I thank the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—President, I thank you for your statement and acknowledge very much your indication to senators in terms of the standards that must be upheld in this chamber. I think it beholds all senators to reflect very clearly upon that, as I indicated in multiple statements yesterday and have done before, and to engage in ways where we focus upon the issues before us, the questions before the chair and the topics being debated and refrain, as the standing orders make clear, from personal reflections upon one another or engaging in debate in ways that undermine the dignity of this place or the ability to focus upon those important issues.</para>
<para>I acknowledge that in relation to this matter the senator in question, Senator Hanson, has withdrawn statements made. That is welcome, and I am pleased that you have acknowledged that in your ruling.</para>
<para>There is one matter in relation to how yesterday was handled that I do believe requires further consideration, and I indicate that I will be asking the Procedure Committee to review the withdrawing of the call in an ongoing sense from Senator Hanson that was undertaken yesterday. It is absolutely the recognised right of the chair to sit down a senator and to withdraw the call during proceedings for a senator if they are engaging in a disorderly way, and that disorderly way of course includes refusing to accept a request of the chair, as was the incident yesterday. However, it is not clear that to continue to withhold the call from a senator in subsequent proceedings is at all empowered within precedent and certainly not within standing orders, and for all senators in this place the right to speak is of paramount importance.</para>
<para>Standing order 203 provides a very clear pathway for the removal of a senator should they disobey the ruling of the chair. I recognise though that you, in the statement just made, have indicated you have preferred a pathway, which I think is also a sensible one, to seek to not escalate matters and to give senators some time for reflection. So there is a balance to be sought there between a time for reflection versus the using of a standing order such as 203.</para>
<para>These are difficult matters for a chair in the midst of live proceedings, but I think the ruling that provides for any future President to any future senator, regardless of which party they are from or no party, to withhold the call and that instruction being carried through to all temporary chairs is something that requires proper, thorough investigation and scrutiny by the Procedure Committee.</para>
<para>If it is without precedent then we need to understand the guidelines and guardrails that exist for the precedent that you have set through the application of that ruling, or to determine whether in fact it needs to be more properly codified or whether there are other means by which de-escalation of matters in this chamber can be achieved and time for reflection provided to senators enabled. So I foreshadow that we'll be following the proper procedure and asking the Procedure Committee to review the incident. It will not be to revisit the issue itself that sparked that—you have ruled upon that; that has been dealt with at this point in time—but to look at the very important principle, constitutionally enshrined and enshrined within our standing orders, of senators having the right to speak and the very important role this Senate has in ensuring that that is protected for all senators and, if it is to be withdrawn, that there are very clear procedures, steps or standards in place for how and when it is withdrawn.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. It's most useful for the Procedure Committee to deal with this matter, and I thank you for your contribution.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the government, we acknowledge it is an unusual step for a statement to be issued by both a President and a Deputy President. I think that's actually a very positive move, to put forward the positions of all sides of the chamber on this matter.</para>
<para>We were very concerned by some of the behaviour that we saw in the chamber yesterday and over the last couple of days. I'll be the first to admit that my behaviour is not always great in this chamber, but I think most of us would agree that some of the things that were said in this chamber over the last couple of days went well beyond what is acceptable conduct in this chamber. We believe that you attempted to find a reasonable solution to the situation which confronted you yesterday and that you were left with no choice but to withdraw the call from Senator Hanson because of her refusal to withdraw.</para>
<para>I have been asked to withdraw things that I've said on a number of occasions. Usually, when you do, you feel you're in the right to say what you said, but the practice of this chamber is to withdraw remarks when you're requested by the President, and that's what should have occurred yesterday as well. I think Senator Birmingham's suggestion about some consideration by the Procedure Committee is a good way forward, but we absolutely support the statement that you and the Deputy President have made today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank you, President, and the Deputy President, for the leadership that you've shown in saying that this chamber will no longer tolerate, and that there is no place for, unparliamentary language or personal reflections and that people must take responsibility. I strongly endorse that approach. We are very pleased that Senator Hanson was forced to withdraw the racist language that she used. That is a strong statement of this chamber that racist language is not acceptable here or anywhere—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Before I go to—and I'm not sure who jumped first. I'll give the call to Senator Colbeck. This is a very serious matter.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, it doesn't require commentary. That's my whole point: it needs to be listened to in respectful silence. Senator Colbeck.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Colbeck, please resume your seat. Senators, we have just had a statement from myself, endorsed by Senator Birmingham and Senator Watt, about the need to be respectful. I've called for silence. That's what I expect. Senator Colbeck, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's unfortunate that in this debate we are having about respectful language—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a point of order. Thank you, Senator McKim—that we have a reflection on another senator made as a part of the debate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So, President, it would be useful if those speaking in this debate, which is about reflections on other senators and not reflecting on other senators, which has just occurred—I think that statement should be withdrawn.</para>
<para>I'm not interested in political parties in this context; I'm interested in the operations of this place.</para>
<para>An opposition senator interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Sorry, Senator Colbeck; please resume your seat. This is really unhelpful. This is really unhelpful, particularly given the context of the debate. I'm asking senators: if you wish to make a contribution, stand and seek the call. The interjections across the chamber are disorderly. Senator Colbeck, did you finish your point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Colbeck</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The point is the language was a reflection on Senator Hanson. Whether we agree with Senator Hanson or not, it was a reflection on Senator Hanson. If this debate is going to be carried out in a reasonable manner, that sort of language should not be used and should be withdrawn.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Colbeck. Did you wish to make a separate point of order, Senator Roberts?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I do.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will come to you in a moment. I'll just come back to your point of order, Senator Colbeck. In a technical sense what Senator Waters said doesn't breach the standing orders, but you are correct: we are having a debate about unparliamentary language and the way that we refer to senators in this place, so it could be that a senator could take offence at the comments that Senator Waters made. I would ask Senator Waters to use that standing order that I have quoted and to refrain from using what could be construed as inflammatory language. I'm now going to go to Senator Roberts.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. Your statement—</para>
<para>An honourable senator: Is this a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it is; it's a point of order. Senator Waters was maligning and impugning motive to Senator Hanson that was not true. Your statement this morning talked about unparliamentary language. Senator Waters raised 'racist'—there was nothing racist about what Senator Hanson said. I need to get her to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, in exactly the same way as I've asked Senator Waters to refrain from using language which could be offensive to other senators, that applies to you. You've stood on a point of order very similar to Senator Colbeck's, which I have addressed. I believe Senator Waters has the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks very much, President. I appreciate your ruling there. I specifically sought advice on what words were permissible to use that did not breach standing orders, and I stand by my remarks that are parliamentary and that are within standing orders—that the use of racist language is not appropriate in this chamber. It's not appropriate anywhere, but we need to be setting the standard in this chamber to help keep people safe out there. So I'm very pleased, President, that yourself and the Deputy President have made such a strong ruling this morning. I think it's appropriate and I'm very pleased that you've referenced clause 11 of the code of conduct, because that specifically, as I hope we all know, precludes discrimination in all of its forms by people in this chamber—and it will soon apply to Commonwealth workplaces everywhere as well.</para>
<para>If we are to give meaning to those words, then accountability needs to flow. And so I'm pleased that Senator Hanson was forced to withdraw her racist language used against Senator Faruqi. I'm very disappointed that she didn't take the chance to apologise to Senator Faruqi, as she should have done, but there is still time.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, please resume your seat. Once again, I remind senators of the need to listen in silence. If you want to make a contribution then seek the call, otherwise listen in silence. Senator Waters, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, President. And just in relation to the matter that the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate raised about whether your withdrawal of the call was appropriate, there were four instances, President, where you asked Senator Hanson to withdraw and each time she backchatted and did not respect your request and defied your ruling. Our party believes it is entirely appropriate that the call was withdrawn, and the Procedure Committee may well look at this.</para>
<para>When we finally have the enforcement body that will enforce the behaviour code—of which clause 11 says, 'Don't discriminate against people on the grounds of race, religion, gender or age'—there will be a range of sanctions, consequences that should and will apply to people, for racial discrimination, for sex discrimination, for discrimination of any kind, as is appropriate. That will include withdrawal of the call. It will include being forced to make an apology. It might even include being removed from positions that you might hold on committees—serious implications. That's what accountability looks like. That's why we need this behaviour code to be enforceable, not just something where we rely on the good faith of people to comply with it. That's why we need the Independent Parliamentary Standards Commission, which is overdue. It was due to be established last month. It's late. We are urging both of the large parties in this place to work collaboratively to get that independent commission up and running so that it's not up to us to stand up for our colleague when racist language is used to impugn her, so that that's actually a standard that we are all bound by that is independently enforced. Let's set the standard in this place for the rest of the nation, because people deserve to be safe and feel safe.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The matter that Senator Birmingham has raised is an important matter for every senator in this chamber. Our right to speak in this place is fundamental to the reason that we're all here. I agree with senators in respect of the way that we speak and the way that we refer to colleagues in the chamber. I agree that there is a way for us to go in improving that, and I'm supporting that process. But the fundamental right of any senator to speak in here, as a representative elected by the Australian people, should not be able to be removed without some process of this chamber. That's what our standing orders do. It's important that our standing orders properly support that process.</para>
<para>I acknowledge, President, that yesterday there were a particular set of circumstances that you were looking to manage at a point in time, but it is an important protection for every single one of us that we have the opportunity to stand in this place to seek the call and to speak, and then the chamber has the opportunity to express its view in relation to that. Anything that takes away from that diminishes the fundamental tenets of this place and why we are sent here. So I would just like to support and reaffirm the view that we should be making sure that it is not possible for any single senator—despite the fact that they might be sitting in the chair, albeit at the pleasure of this place—to remove the opportunity for any one of us, from any party, to stand in this place to seek the call to make a contribution. That's why we are here. That needs to be protected at all costs. Standards should apply, absolutely, and that's what the debate is about, and we cannot allow the right of any senator to stand in this place to speak to get caught up in a particular issue, because that then undermines the whole purpose and the reason that we're here. I understand that there's real hurt in relation to some of the things that have been said, and I am sympathetic to that hurt. I genuinely am.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Faruqi</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not hurt. It's abuse.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I genuinely understand. But we must uphold the basic tenets of why we're here, and the standing orders need to be considered to make sure that that occurs.</para>
<para>It cannot be the purview of one person to say that someone cannot stand in this place and speak. That protects every single one of us.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>5</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>5</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the consideration of private senators' bills as circulated in the chamber.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice of motion, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to provide for consideration of a matter—namely, a motion relating to the consideration of private senators' bills to be moved and determined immediately.</para></quote>
<para>I am moving to suspend standing orders today to have these four bills—the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023—debated and decided upon as quickly as possible.</para>
<para>These four bills are sensible changes to the law that are not controversial. They should never have been part of legislation that includes very complex changes to employment law. They include simple changes that do a lot for some of Australia's most vulnerable people: acknowledging PTSD for our first responders; stopping discrimination for victims of domestic violence; bringing silica in line with asbestos; and getting rid of redundancy exemptions for large businesses during insolvency. They are all easy for the Senate to agree to. They are sensible and they are the government's own policies.</para>
<para>These bills are actually in the government's own words. Senator Pocock and I lifted them straight from the government's beast of a bill, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill. Lumping these four things in with complex changes like the definition of 'casual work', the gig economy and union delegate powers was always the wrong thing to do. They are using it as leverage. We're not playing this game, not when it comes to people's lives and wellbeing. They are challenging proposals that require more time and attention. So I want to get on with these four bills. I want to get them done now so that those people out there who these bills will affect can start getting on with their lives and get the attention that they need immediately.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing this motion for a number of reasons, both process reasons and issues of substance. In terms of the process, we are very much used to the crossbench objecting to a range of practices that they have themselves used today in seeking to move this motion and seeking to have these bills brought on for debate. I have personally had conversations with the members of the crossbench who are moving this motion and who are doing exactly the things that they complain about government and opposition senators doing. It is rather disappointing to see those crossbench members engaging in exactly the same kind of behaviour that they say is completely out of line any time the government does it.</para>
<para>What am I talking about? For starters, to my knowledge, we received no notice whatsoever of this motion being put.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, you might think that's a laughing matter, but I know what would happen if we came into the chamber and tried to move a motion like this without giving you any notice of that. It is pretty unfortunate and, I would say, rude to move that sort of motion without the courtesy of providing notice of that motion. That's the first thing that this motion does that is apparently not okay when the government does it.</para>
<para>Secondly, it seeks to guillotine debate. We know that the crossbench always object—or say they object—any time there is a suggestion that debate should be guillotined. Thirdly, and probably more importantly, what this motion seeks to do is to bring on for debate and passage legislation that is actually currently being considered by a Senate inquiry. I would have thought that the proper process is to allow that Senate inquiry to report.</para>
<para>And the minister has already flagged that he will be making amendments based on evidence that has come forward in that Senate inquiry, and that is being capably led, I know, by Senator Sheldon. So why the crossbench thinks that it's okay to seek to pass legislation that is currently being considered by a Senate inquiry is beyond me, but maybe that's something we should think about doing something in the future as well! But we actually have more respect for the Senate processes than it seems certain people do, in moving this motion.</para>
<para>Fourthly, what this motion does is seek to pass legislation that was only introduced this week. We know that there's a longstanding convention that legislation is not passed the same week as it's introduced unless there are truly exceptional circumstances. So I'm pretty surprised and pretty disappointed that crossbench members who like to hold themselves out as the guardians of Senate practice have in four ways completely ignored that Senate practice in order to try to pass this motion.</para>
<para>But, beyond those process reasons, there are also good reasons of substance to oppose this motion. For starters, it seeks to prolong debit on these bills beyond the usual allocation of private senators' time. There is no reason that these bills couldn't be handled in the usual way, in the usual allocation of private senators' bills. Again, there's a longstanding convention in this place for private senators' time to be allocated, and we've always facilitated that. It's there in the agenda today. There's an hour and 10 minutes available for the debate of these bills. But what this motion seeks to do is to extend debate and further eat into government business time, which will impede us considering and passing very important legislation for the country.</para>
<para>This week we've spent the entire week debating one piece of legislation, being the sea dumping bill, and we'll now—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you're suggesting we should guillotine it, maybe you should talk to your leader.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cash</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're offended by guillotines!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who's running the opposition? Is it the leader or is it you?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, through me.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It will eat into time to debate that legislation. There is important national security legislation that's been listed for debate. It's been there all week, and we haven't been able to get to it because of repeated committee stages and repeated questions from members of the opposition and the Greens and that will be delayed further because of this motion.</para>
<para>Also, of course, there's the substance of these bills which ignores the fact that right now workers are being underpaid and ripped off and are not going to be fixed because the crossbench is working with the opposition to address some issues and not the rip-offs that are happening in the Australian workplace.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I actually rise to support the suspension motion that has been moved by Senator Lambie. Let's talk about why—in particular in direct response to what Senator Watt has said. The best that the government could come up with in relation to why Minister Burke will not split this bill to put forward, as has been put sensibly in a motion this morning, what are considered to be the non-controversial parts of the bill has just ben articulated by Senator Watt—and that is we're actually holding up people getting the correct benefits. Well, let's go through how that stacks up in the start dates of the bill.</para>
<para>Based on that statement, you would assume that what they're referring to are start dates of 1 January 2024, but, unless Minister Watt hasn't read the legislation or unless Minister Burke is not over his own legislation, let me tell you when the start dates are: casual employee changes, 1 July 2024; casual conversion, 1 July 2024; regulated labour hire arrangement cannot come into effect before—wait for it colleagues—1 November 2024; unfair contractual terms, 1 July 2024; and wage theft, 1 January 2025. Good grief! It's getting worse. Guess what, colleagues. Guess what comes into effect on 1 January 2024. Can anyone guess?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Duniam</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Tell us!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Union delegate rights. You've got to be kidding me! So at least be upfront in relation to why you want to push this bill through the Senate this year.</para>
<para>They're your own start dates. And what starts on 1 January? The rights of unions to go into workplaces around this country.</para>
<para>But let's have a look at the four pieces of legislation that we're being asked to discuss this morning. They are, word for word, taken from the government's own legislation. So, effectively what Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock are doing is giving the government the opportunity to vote on their own legislation this morning and be constructive. The coalition is going to be constructive. The crossbenchers are going to be constructive. I don't know what the Australian Greens are going to do, but they may well be constructive, too, to enable these important parts of legislation—important parts that business groups across Australia also agree should be split from this bill—to be put through the Senate. Then we can continue our role as a Senate and properly scrutinise the more complex and controversial parts of the legislation.</para>
<para>So let's look this morning at what the crossbenchers are looking at doing. They are looking to provide the asbestos agency with the remit in relation to silica diseases. Well, that is work that was started under the former coalition government. A report has just been released by Safe Work Australia. I would have thought that, given the recommendations from Safe Work Australia, this is something where the government would say: 'Yes. It is appropriate. It is not controversial. It can be progressed today through the Australian Senate.'</para>
<para>And they're going to be using, as a political weapon, discrimination against people who are suffering family or domestic violence. Now, you tell me: if businesses across Australia are saying that they are comfortable with the change that is being proposed—and we're comfortable with the change, and the crossbench are comfortable—why would you not pursue that again today through the Australian Senate? And what about the redundancy payments for Australian workers? That's something Minister Burke could happily progress through today. So, when a larger business becomes a small business—due to, say, insolvency—those workers will still be entitled to a redundancy payment. I thought that was getting workers paid, but, conveniently, Minister Watt and Mr Burke don't agree with that.</para>
<para>But of course something that I personally looked at when last in opposition—and I worked with former senator Gavin Marshall on this—was reversing the presumption in relation to first responders who get posttraumatic stress syndrome. Labor can be as political as they like, but guess what? We're going to be constructive, and I support the suspension of standing orders.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We absolutely support these elements of the so-called closing-loopholes bill that we are now dealing with, that we will deal with. And I want to commend Senators Pocock and Lambie for their initiative in pulling out these four sections of the bill, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023, because the bills that we're dealing with this morning, which are carved out from the original fair work bill, are the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023, and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023, including access to PTSD compensation. These are all worthwhile, all simple, all carved out of the original legislation from Labor—exact copies.</para>
<para>The motion to reorder allows a sensible amount of time for debate, given that these are not controversial issues and they've so far received wide support from stakeholders. I agree with Senator Lambie that the closing-loopholes bill, in its entirety, is just a cover-up, a trick. That's all they're doing. Combining the bills under the 'loopholes' tag is dishonest, and that's what the Labor Party is doing with this bill. It's fundamentally dishonest. They are protecting and covering up the Mining and Energy Union in the Hunter Valley, the Fair Work Commission, the Fair Work Ombudsman, Coal Long Service Leave Corporation, and Minister Burke and his staff, who were aware of some illegalities, some crimes, that have been committed in the topics that I've been discussion for the past four years in this place.</para>
<para>That's why this bill is being lumped in, Senator Cash. We've got a lovely title, 'Closing Loopholes'.</para>
<para>There are some fantastic elements of it; I agree with Senator Lambie. But they're hiding it under a dog. They're protecting their own rackets.</para>
<para>Ensuring that all questions on the bills are put at 11.30 today will ensure that we get these sensible measures passed, as Senator Cash and Senator Lambie have said. It would be nice to pass some legislation in the Senate. That's another reason why we need this suspension of standing orders motion. The government has been stuck on its non-sensical sea dumping bill, now in its fourth day. I heard Senator Pocock talking about it the other day. Why would you call it a sea dumping bill—putting pollution in the form of phosphates, nitrogen and iron into the ocean as an experiment? They can't even name their bill correctly, using a decent term. Maybe it is correct, Senator Pocock, through you, Chair. It's a sea dumping bill—that's your title—and you can't withstand the scrutiny that your own sloppy sea dumping bill has brought upon you. You can't withstand the scrutiny, and you're still going. That is what is happening with this motion. The Senate is slapping the government and saying, 'This is how you get some legislation through.' So I want to thank Senators Lambie and Pocock again.</para>
<para>We need to pass this motion for the insolvency practitioners that will be done over when the headcount falls below the small business threshold and will miss out on entitlements. This has wide industry support and is an aberration. We should deal with it now, as this motion proposes. People who are suffering from family and domestic violence should have access to protections in the Fair Work Act—sooner rather than later. That isn't controversial. We need to deal with it now, as this motion proposes. We need to get on with the job with these four bills. I commend Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock, and we support this suspension of standing orders.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First of all, I want to say that splitting these bills will have a massive detrimental effect on many, many people. I'll go to that in a moment. On the committee process that's taken place—and when we go to tomorrow's committee meeting, which I'll talk about in my five minutes—we have had a cooperative, constructive, hard-argued, hard-cross-examined series of witnesses that have come before the inquiry in the Senate. Both Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock have played a very constructive and informative role and have raised a series of thoughtful issues with regard to the debate. I also want to include that even the opposition has raised issues that are worth consideration from everybody across the parliament.</para>
<para>During that debate and those discussions, it became very clear that there is a need for a proper process to take place and that it's not only about the process but also about the capacity to consider all the opinions that are delivered during those particular hearings. This is an extremely dangerous and unusual process—part of the way through a Senate inquiry that is taking place into a bill that comprehensively deals with the complexities of people trying to gain the system. I say 'the complexities' because the issues being raised are with regard to same job, same pay and the right to a voice in a workplace, and the things that deal with fundamental questions about safety in the workplace, where people have an opportunity to turn around and speak out.</para>
<para>There were issues raised regarding the matters that are suggested in the private member's bill, which we'll appropriately debate regardless of the circumstances. I'll have some words to say when the debate takes place. The time for that debate is set aside so that we can deal with other matters. I'll go to the heart of the processes of some of the matters that have been suggested within the bill. Scott Weber from the Police Federation of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The bill needs to get up in its entirety … this is a holistic approach in regard to keeping all Australians safe and also reducing the workload of police officers … It's critically important this legislation go through in its entirety and quite soon …</para></quote>
<para>Paramedics who gave evidence to the inquiry also put very similar positions about their concerns.</para>
<para>Simone Haigh, a working paramedic and the president of the Ambulance Employees Sub-branch of the Health and Community Services Union in Tasmania, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I think the option is to push it all through quickly, basically. It's there for everybody. It's hard but I think we really need to support everybody in this. I know there are people out there who are struggling, but they do know that if we don't look after everybody we will be worse off as emergency service workers because we are the ones who pick up the slack … Everybody has the right to come home from work every day and not be killed on their job just because they're racing to get food to someone's house.</para></quote>
<para>She went on to make a number of other observations.</para>
<para>Quite clearly, the point is that, for these matters to be properly dealt with, they all need to be dealt with within the Fair Work legislation. They need to be dealt with at least after the Senate inquiry and proper consideration by the Senate of that inquiry so that all the parties can appropriately give due consideration to all the issues that are raised. It isn't just a matter of process for the sake of process. These are significant pieces of legislation that deal with a complex set of circumstances that are occurring right across workplaces across the country, and there is a need to bring a comprehensive response to safety issues and labour issues, to getting wages moving and to dealing with the opposition from those within the big business community that have a different view. They've expressed their view, but I tell you what: I'm quite interested to hear exactly what that legislation entails and be able to consider all those matters when we go through some more hearings tomorrow. This is before we've gone back to the department to ask critical questions about every element of the legislation.</para>
<para>This is a ludicrous situation. We're actually debating a bill and, shortly, we'll be extending the consideration of a bill that's going to be given proper consideration as result of a full day's hearing tomorrow. I understand that at one point it was complained that we didn't have enough time. Now we've got no time. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be now put on the motion moved by Senator Lambie and Senator David Pocock to suspend standing orders.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion moved by Senator Lambie and Senator David Pocock to suspend standing orders be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That a motion relating to the consideration of private senators' bills may be moved immediately and have precedence over all other business and be determined without amendment or debate.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question now be put on a procedural motion moved by Senator Lambie.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I ask that the government's opposition to that motion be recorded.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It will be recorded. The question now is that the procedural motion moved by Senator Lambie be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the routine of business be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consideration of the following bills only:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if consideration of the bills has not concluded by 11.30 am, the question on all remaining stages of the bills be put,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) paragraph (b) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) after consideration of the bills has finally concluded, the Senate shall return to its routine of business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Again, I ask that the government's opposition to the motion be recorded.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>9</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023, Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>9</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="s1400" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="s1401" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="s1398" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="s1399" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>9</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023 closes a loophole currently in that law that a small business doesn't have to pay redundancy to workers when that business has to downsize due to insolvency. The small business redundancy exemption has been part of the workplace relations laws under the Fair Work Act since 2009. The thinking was that small businesses could hire workers without worrying about possible future redundancy payments. To qualify for the exemption, small businesses had to have fewer than 15 staff.</para>
<para>The problem, or the loophole, comes when a larger business becomes a smaller one, usually because they are going out of business, and ends up with fewer than 15 employees. According to this particular loophole, these large businesses are now small businesses and they don't have to pay their remaining staff a redundancy. That means that these workers who are helping to wind up the businesses do not get the redundancy they would normally be entitled to. These workers are often the people that have had to stay on helping to wind up the business, long after their mates have gone. This is a loophole that needs to be closed.</para>
<para>Imagine you're a worker in a large business and you've been there for years. Then imagine you're told that you're to be one of the last workers but you will not be getting a redundancy payment because the large business is now technically a small business. Workers shouldn't lose their rights to a redundancy payment just because they stay on to help these large businesses close down and finish up. This bill fixes that because it provides an exemption to the exemption. Basically, it makes sure that big businesses can't get away with not paying redundancies to the last of their workers just because they are going out of business. It is a loophole that needs to be closed, and it needs to be closed now due to economic circumstances that are going on outside this parliament. According to the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, we are dealing with a spike in corporate insolvency—in other words, large businesses are going out of business. Official data shows that in August this year 918 companies went into external administration for the first time or had a controller appointed. This was up 32 per cent on last year and up 12 per cent on the previous month.</para>
<para>We know the construction industry is falling on hard times. We have labour shortage issues and supply chain problems that are all working together to create a perfect storm and are creating a wave of insolvencies across the sector. Everyday Australians are dealing with a cost-of-living crisis, high interest rates and wages that aren't keeping up with inflation. They're tightening their belts, and that's hitting retail and larger businesses across the board. This amendment is just common sense, and it's an amendment that shouldn't have to wait until next July. It is not controversial and it is not complicated. It simply protects the redundancy entitlements of those workers who are the last ones out the door.</para>
<para>I want to talk about silicosis. The Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency was set up in 2013 to administer the national strategic plan. ASEA oversees national actions to improve asbestos awareness and the effective and safe management, removal and disposal of asbestos. The first recorded Australian case of asbestosis was in 1933 and the insistency of the disease is still rising, even though most of those diagnosed today were exposed to heavy doses of asbestos 50 years ago. It took nearly 100 years for this country to create a national agency to deal with asbestos. We can't wait a minute longer to deal with silica.</para>
<para>Silica is found in things like stone benchtops, concrete, bricks and mortar. When these materials are cut, crushed, drilled, polished, sawn or ground, they release tiny dust particles. Silica dust is 100 times smaller than a grain of sand—so tiny that you can't even see it. But if you are exposed to it you can get lung cancer, kidney disease or silicosis. It's estimated that nearly half a million young tradies are exposed to silica dust, with thousands already diagnosed with silicosis. Like asbestosis, there is no cure for silicosis. Safe Work Australia has cut the silica dust exposure limit from 0.1 milligrams per cubic metre over an eight-hour shift to 0.05 milligrams, but this limit won't come in for three years and it has to be signed off by state and territory governments.</para>
<para>Silica reform is complicated and unfortunately sits across multiple portfolios and jurisdictions. Including silica in the government agency ASEA will help to fix this problem. This bill gives workers a right to safe and healthy workplaces by including silica in the government agency that deals with asbestos. It is common sense. This also includes eliminating and minimising exposure to dangerous silica dust. It raises awareness and it improves research. It means for the first time we can gather national data. The bill also expands the agency's functions to include a focus on silica safety and coordination, awareness raising, reporting and providing advice to the government on silica safety and silica related diseases. It also promotes and helps current efforts to manage the risk of silica and silica related disease in the workplace.</para>
<para>Like I said, it's estimated that up to half a million tradies have been exposed to silica dust, and at least 100,000 of those could die of silicosis. We don't know the exact number of deaths from this deadly silica dust, because we haven't been tracking and recording national data, but a study from 2012 estimated that it has already contributed to over 10,000 deaths a year. Many of the workers who get silicosis are young people. They are our sons and our daughters. Something needs to be done, and we cannot wait any longer.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator Lambie, could I ask senators to please, if they're speaking, speak softly, including those on their phones. Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Unlike exposure to asbestos, which may take many years to present, acute silicosis can occur within three years of exposure. Like asbestosis, there is no cure for silicosis other than a lung transplant. And, despite significant government reports in the 1990s of the growing number of Australians dying of asbestosis, it wasn't until the end of 2003 that a complete ban on all forms of asbestos was brought in. It was another 10 years until Australia got a national agency. With hundreds of thousands of Australians being exposed to silica dust every year, we need to act now. I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to offer a brief contribution on these fair work legislation bills. In doing so, I want to acknowledge my crossbench colleague Senator Lambie and her team for their work and for sharing a commitment to work constructively on the legislation before us. These bills represent four simple measures that could make a big difference to our communities right now. They are straightforward, have broad support, and can literally change lives.</para>
<para>The first bill, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023, would better support our fireys, ambos, police, and emergency services to access compensation for PTSD they've developed as part of their job. Our first responders come into monthly, weekly and sometimes daily contact with death, violence, and injury. They witness tragedies on a regular basis that many of us may only witness once or twice in our lives. This extends to the phone operators in our emergency services, who I think are underrecognised for the extremely important service they provide to our communities. In speaking with some operators, I've been told some truly awful stories about the calls they need to take on a daily basis, and this clearly takes a toll.</para>
<para>The prevention of mental health injury should always be the priority, but we know that that's not always possible, given the nature of the work our first responders do. So early intervention has to be the next most important goal, and I believe our services are getting much better at this. But it won't work for everyone, and that's because trauma is a complex thing and is very individual. For one person, exposure to one traumatic event may be enough to precipitate into post-traumatic stress disorder. For some, PTSD could develop after repeated exposure over a 20-year period. It's a complicated illness, but we know that our first responders shoulder a very high burden of PTSD.</para>
<para>For those who've had family members with PTSD, you'll know just what a toll it takes on the entire family. It is a huge thing for a family to go through to support a family member with PTSD. If you take paramedics, some studies show that the prevalence of PTSD is as high as 10 or 11 per cent. That's one in 10 paramedics.</para>
<para>For our first responders, PTSD is an occupational disease, so our compensation system must stand ready to support them and to fund the services that will put them on the possible pathway to recovery. Unfortunately from the moment I was elected I've heard from first responders that our compensation system is not working in this way. It's not recognising them and supporting them in the way that it should. What I've heard is that first responders are being left to fight with insurers, such as Comcare, for access to compensation that would fund their treatments for PTSD. This happens because it's difficult to prove that PTSD develops as part as someone's job. It's difficult to point to one moment in a person's career and say, 'That was the moment where I developed PTSD.' It's difficult for a person to trawl through their memory at all the loss they may have seen throughout their career and tally the moments that have contributed to them developing PTSD. The very task of listing the dates of those traumatic events would be daunting, if not impossible. It would be harder still while you're struggling with PTSD, knowing the toll that it's taking on your loved ones as well, working each day to keep your mental health in check.</para>
<para>When you start out in one of the services you need to have a physical and mental health clearance, so it seems rather obvious that if a first responder has PTSD then it has developed as part of their job. This bill flips the equation. When this bill passes, insurers will need to presume that PTSD was caused by a first responder's job. If an insurer disagrees then it's on them to prove that it wasn't. This was a key recommendation of the 2019 Senate inquiry, <inline font-style="italic">The people behind 000: mental health of our first responders</inline>. I want to acknowledge Senator Anne Urquhart, the senator for Tasmania, for her role in establishing the committee and for driving forward those recommendations over the last few years. Clearly there's a lot of support for first responders from Tasmanian senators.</para>
<para>I will take the opportunity to remind the Senate that there were 12 other recommendations in the report that we should not forget. They include reforming how insurers order independent medical examinations. I've heard too many stories of first responders having to front up to three, five, or in one case nine, different independent medical examinations. These examinations are by their nature confronting, and they can feel combative. By necessity, they also require people to speak about and recount their traumas, which can retraumatise people in the grips of PTSD. They are necessary—you can't eliminate them from the system—but clearly insurers need to be careful in ordering them.</para>
<para>Finally, on this provision, I want to give a shout-out to the Heart2Heart crew, who recently completed an almost-3,000-kilometre journey across Australia to raise awareness of first responder mental health and to push for the recommendations of the 2019 Senate inquiry report <inline font-style="italic">The people behind 000</inline> to be implemented in full. Today is the first step towards doing that. It's the least that we can do for their service to our communities and to our country, for being there for us in our greatest, most terrible hours of need.</para>
<para>I'll finish off on this bill by saying thank you to our police, our ambos, our firefighters, our emergency services and the operators sitting behind triple 0.</para>
<para>Thank you for putting your health and wellbeing on the line for our communities, and thank you for having our backs. I hope this measure goes some way to looking after you as well.</para>
<para>I'll try and keep my remarks on the remaining three bills very brief. The small business redundancy exemption provision is a longstanding feature of our workplace relations system. Senator Lambie, in her contribution, highlighted the loophole and the statistics here. This is a very welcome change. I would also highlight the need for the parliament to deal with security of payments. That's an area where politicians are failing our tradies and are failing subcontractors who do work and then don't get paid for that work. It's something we have to take more seriously.</para>
<para>The Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023 corrects an oversight on the part of all of us when we were establishing the family and domestic violence leave entitlement last year. While it is illegal for an employer to discriminate against someone for taking family and domestic violence leave, it's not technically illegal for an employer to discriminate against someone on the basis that they're experiencing domestic violence. This bill fixes that by making a subjection to family and domestic violence a protected attribute under the Fair Work Act. In practice, women's legal services have told me it will be a nuanced but very important protection that will ensure people are protected from discrimination before they're ready to access their family and domestic violence leave entitlement. Sadly, we know that, despite the new national plan, family and domestic violence is on the rise.</para>
<para>Finally, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 will add silicosis to the remit of the Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency. If this bill passes, the ASEA will develop and maintain a national silicosis plan and help to coordinate efforts across all levels of government. Silicosis, predominantly from working with engineered stone, is killing workers. It is killing Australians. We know the dangers, and yet still governments—state, territory and federal—have failed to ban it. We need more courage from policymakers to step up on the issue of engineered stone. It is not acceptable to have the evidence and to have recommendations to ban it, and not to have the political courage to follow through with that in order to protect workers in Australia.</para>
<para>These are four bills that, from my read of this chamber, have multipartisan support. I thank the government for drafting the legislation. I thank Minister Burke for including the PTSD provisions. It was a surprise to everyone who'd been pushing for these provisions for years—including the Australian Federal Police Association and others—that they were part of this omnibus bill. I know that they want to see it passed in full this year. The omnibus bill is a beast of a bill, and the Senate is rightly taking its time to work through the 20 sections in total. Here are four. There'll be another 16 to work through in detail, and I understand there will be a number of amendments, including a number of government amendments. They are welcome, but there is clearly still more work to do.</para>
<para>I'll continue to do my bit and uphold my commitment to the people of the ACT, when it comes to the larger omnibus bill, to take each element on its merits and work on it in good faith. But that should not stop us from passing elements of this bill which have broad support and which—as Senator Cash pointed out—have an earlier start date than many of the elements in the much larger omnibus bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to make a short contribution on this debate. I've already outlined in the procedural motion the reasons why the government did not support the procedural motion to extend debate on this matter and, effectively, to gazump the Senate inquiry that's still underway on this very legislation. But what I want to focus on in these brief remarks are the reasons why the government does not support splitting the bills in the way that's being proposed.</para>
<para>I support much of what Senator Pocock just said, and Senator Lambie before him, as to why the matters contained in the bills they're now moving are important. That shouldn't be a surprise, because they have come from government legislation. These are things that no government, including the former coalition government, ever thought were important enough to bring legislation to this chamber about—things like protecting workers from silicosis, which is an absolute scourge in the construction sector. And there are things like better protecting first responders, including the issues surrounding post-traumatic stress disorder. They are very important issues for us to legislate on, to protect those workers and to give them greater protection than they have at the moment.</para>
<para>That's why we have introduced legislation to deal with these matters. But these are not the only matters that are important when it comes to worker protection contained in the broader bills which the government has introduced and which are currently before the Senate inquiry. While it's important to deal with silicosis, it's important to deal with first-responder health concerns and it's important to deal with all of the other matters that are included in these bills now being moved by senators Lambie and Pocock, I think, and the government thinks, that it's also important to stop workers from being deliberately underpaid; it's important that employers who deliberately steal wages from their employees face criminal consequences. That is in the broader piece of legislation that the government has introduced, but is not included in the bills now put before us by senators Lambie and Pocock.</para>
<para>It's also important that we protect workers from what's known as 'industrial manslaughter', where workers die because of the deliberate recklessness or negligence of their employers. It's pretty important to protect workers from being killed because of their own employer's negligence. But that hasn't been picked up in the bills that senators Lambie and Pocock are introducing here; it's contained in the broader legislation that the government has put forward. It hasn't been deemed important; I would have thought that protecting workers from being killed at work because of the negligence of their employers is pretty important, just as dealing with the other important matters that are included in these bills before us today are.</para>
<para>I would have thought that protecting casual workers from the safety concerns that arise from the casual nature of their employment—gig workers, delivery drivers, truckies, coalminers and all of those people who, at the moment, are wrongly classified, and paid and treated as casual workers without any protection. I would have thought that their rights to be safe at work and to make complaints about safety concerns without fearing retribution from their employer are important. I would have thought those were pretty important as well, but they haven't been included in Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock's bills. For whatever reason, they don't seem to consider those matters as important as the ones that are being dealt with here.</para>
<para>Similarly, I would have thought that it's pretty important to even the playing field for the hundreds of thousands of workers in this country who are employed as labour hire—those who are brought into a workplace and paid at lower rates and conditions than the permanent workers they work alongside—and to make sure that just because they're called 'labour hire' doesn't mean they can be ripped off by employers who have entered into an enterprise agreement with the rest of their workforce. I reckon that's pretty important, but that isn't being dealt with in this legislation that's before us today either.</para>
<para>We do not understand why Senators Lambie and David Pocock, with the support of the opposition, are cherrypicking aspects of the government's broader legislation and saying: 'These things are important but those other things—you know what?—they're not that important. They can wait till next year.' Let's not forget that the government's original proposal was to have this legislation in its entirety dealt with this year. Senator Lambie, Senator Pocock and the opposition say the matters that are before us today are important—and they are. They're things like protecting workers from silicosis and protecting first responders and assisting them with PTSD. Those things are important, and they could have been dealt with under the government's original proposal. All those matters and all the other ones I've gone through, which have been kicked off into next year, could have been dealt with this year.</para>
<para>We agree with Senators Lambie and Pocock that the things that are before us today are important. That is why this government, a Labor government, introduced legislation to deal with them. We've now got these crocodile tears from the opposition, who are saying: 'It's really important that we protect workers from silicosis. It's really important that we protect first responders.' They had 10 years to do something about those things, and on not one day of those 10 years did they think they were important, so give me a break with the crocodile tears. It's a Labor government that is trying to fix the very matters that are before us today—protecting workers from silicosis and death from it, looking after first responders, and all of the other things that are included in these bills today—but what we're also trying to do is to protect workers from being killed at work because of their employer's recklessness and negligence, something that apparently isn't a priority for anyone else in the chamber. That can wait till next year, apparently.</para>
<para>Dozens of workers in Australia are killed every year at work because of the negligence of their employers. I don't know about other senators, but every year, when I'm not here, I go to the International Workers Memorial Day gathering and meet the families of workers who have died at work, very often because of the negligence and recklessness of their employers. I think those employers should be held to account. But we're not going to get around to that till next year because the people who have introduced these bills say it's not a priority.</para>
<para>We should be valuing a worker's life and their entitlement to be protected from their employer's negligence just as much as we should be valuing those workers who are exposed to silicosis poisoning and those first responders who need better care from our community. We should be stopping employers deliberately stealing the wages of their employees. It's not about accidental underpayments; it's about employers who know they are stealing wages from their employees. We should be fixing that this year, not saying: 'It's not a priority. We'll leave that till next year.' That is what the effect of the bills before us today would be. They are cherrypicking some things as being important but, in leaving out deliberate wage theft and the reckless killing of workers and in leaving open loopholes for labour hire workers to be exploited, we are saying that workers' rights don't matter. The government doesn't agree with that. That's exactly why we think the entire package of government legislation should be dealt with this year, rather than the Senate cherrypicking a few bits and saying of the rest of it, 'We'll get around to that one day.'</para>
<para>You know what, Madam Acting Deputy President? Workers were waiting for 10 years under a coalition government for those matters to be dealt with, and they never had them dealt with. They finally elected a government who are serious about getting wages moving again and about getting workers decent protection in the workplace, and they have an entitlement to have those rights respected. What we're doing today, with some senators cherrypicking parts of that legislation, is saying that those rights don't matter. I'd ask the senators who've introduced this legislation to think carefully about that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of these four private senators' bills, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023. I believe the contribution made by Senator Watt on behalf of the government was a fundamentally flawed contribution for these reasons. In the first instance, the arguments put forward by Senator Watt are undermined by the various start dates in the government's bill. Even if the bill were passed this year, it wouldn't change the fact that the proposed effective date for the casual conversion to commence is 1 July 2024.</para>
<para>The proposed effective date for the new definition of 'casual employee' is 1 July 2024. In relation to regulated labour hire, the bill states that a regulated labour hire arrangement order cannot come into effect before 1 November 2024. In relation to the unfair contractual terms, again the proposed effective date is 1 July 2024. In relation to criminalising wage theft and an increase in penalties for underpayments, again the proposed effective date, if not set, is 1 January 2025. In relation to the work health and safety aspects that the minister has referred to, the date is 1 July 2024. As I said, though, in relation to the proposed amendment to right of entry—the new process for allowing worker representatives to obtain permission to enter a workplace without the current requirement for 24 hours notice—what he again conveniently forgot to remind the chamber is that that commences on 1 January 2024. Maybe that's why the minister wanted this legislation rushed through the parliament.</para>
<para>I also take issue with the comments made by Senator Watt in relation to the motivations of the crossbench. The crossbench have been very, very clear as to why they are bringing forward these bills. The omnibus bill is considered one of the most complex and confusing bills to ever hit this parliament. I see in the papers that, allegedly, the minister himself is negotiating with employer groups to already—allegedly—make changes to the casual provisions. We see another article today that says that, allegedly, they're going to make some changes in relation to the gig economy aspects of this bill. I would have thought that that would indicate that the minister himself has already worked out that the legislation is complex and it is confusing, but, worse than that, it is flawed. But, in relation to the four elements that these four bills deal with, there is overwhelming consensus—in particular from the employer groups—that these four parts of the government's omnibus bill don't require further explanation. They certainly don't require further exploration. They can be passed through the Senate. Then it will be for the government to determine whether or not it wants to play politics or, when it gets to the other place, facilitate the timely passage of these four bills before the end of the year.</para>
<para>There are some of us in this chamber who actually want to be constructive when it comes to the passage of the non-controversial parts of what is, as I said, a very, very complex and confusing omnibus bill. Minister Burke has been asked to provide comment as to why the government has stated it won't split the bills, and the best the minister can consistently come up with is, 'We want to ensure that workers get paid correctly.' But, again, the minister's argument—and excuse—is undermined by the start dates in the government's own legislation. Maybe the minister is ignorant as to the start dates. Maybe the department hasn't told him what the start dates are. But given that the commencement dates are not until, in any event, after the Senate committee reports on 1 February next year, his entire argument for not being able to split the bill just falls away.</para>
<para>As I said, though, what is unfortunate in the minister 's arguments is that he needs to be upfront with the Australian people as to the one part of the bill that does commence on 1 January 2024, and that is in relation to the right of entry provisions.</para>
<para>As we know, that is something that unions have long been asking for. Why have that start on 1 July 2024 when you can tick off quite conveniently another one of those agenda items on the lists of the various unions and deliver it to them on 1 January 2024? Quite frankly, Minister Burke's excuses were nothing more and nothing less than a cynical exercise by the minister to give the Albanese government a cover for trying to rush his wider controversial legislation through the parliament.</para>
<para>I think it actually is a great shame that the Labor Party would use the issue—and both Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock have addressed this—of post-traumatic stress syndrome in our First Nations responders as a reason to try to ram through the whole bill this year or, for that matter, using changes to silica related diseases or, for that matter, using discrimination against people suffering from family or domestic violence as an excuse for trying to rush through the bill this year. Alternatively, they talk about wanting to ensure that workers get paid. Well, guess what. What do they think the small business redundancy change is going to do? If it passes, that's going to make sure that, for a big business that through, say, insolvency becomes a small business, the small business exemption in relation to the payment of redundancy that is currently available to small businesses actually does not apply. For the employees of that particular business, which is now smaller business under the relevant threshold, guess what. They don't miss out on their redundancy payment. But, again, the Labor Party stand here today full of excuses.</para>
<para>Had Senator Pocock and Senator Lambie perhaps redrafted these four provisions—had they made changes to them—there may have been an argument in which the government could say: 'We need to consider them further. You've made some changes to what we had proposed. We need to consider them further.' But, you see, Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock haven't done that. The bills that are presented to this parliament are in the identical format to what is currently in the government's legislation. The only difference is employers across the nation, within reason, agree that these four elements can be passed this year and don't require any further explanation or exploration throughout the committee process. On that basis, along with the coalition, along with the crossbench, we are prepared to be constructive in relation to the government's omnibus bill and pass today those elements of the bill that do deliver for Australian workers, that do deliver for those suffering from or who have been victims of family and domestic violence, that do deliver for those who were employed by a larger business but through no fault of their own are now employed by a smaller business and may not therefore be able to get a redundancy payment, that will deliver for those in relation to the asbestos authority, now taking on the remit for silica related diseases.</para>
<para>Senator Pocock went through this in great detail. Those first responders who work each and every day on behalf of the Australian people see terrible things. They, quite frankly, see things that no other person should ever have to see, and on our behalf they discharge their duty each and every day. The Labor Party are prepared to pay politics in relation to the change to post-traumatic stress syndrome and the presumption that their job and what they saw actually did cause the post-traumatic stress syndrome? Wow. That's the 2023 Labor government under the current Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese.</para>
<para>Let's also have a look at what the employers say about these four changes. The Australian Retailers Association support the splitting of the bill. They have some massive issues in relation to, for example, the casual elements of this bill, because they actually employ a lot of casuals.</para>
<para>But in relation to these four parts, they say, 'No, we don't have any issues with these four parts. We agree; let's all be constructive and pass these elements through the Australian Senate, and should Mr Albanese, as Prime Minister of this country, decide to show a bit of leadership, decide to show that he is not playing politics with this bill, pass them through the lower house next week.'</para>
<para>The Business Council of Australia has urged the Senate to split the government's massive omnibus workplace relations bill and support the four private senators' bill. They said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's radical workplace relations changes are a threat to jobs, they're bad for business and bad for workers and they shouldn't be rushed through the Senate,"</para></quote>
<para>They then said they 'strongly support … splitting these bills and the coalition's efforts in calling for more time to properly scrutinise the 800-page omnibus bill'. Have a look at what the Master Builders Association of Australia states. They also say that they support the crossbenchers moves to split the IR bill. Denita Wawn, the CEO, said the government's 'attempt to hold additional protections for workers hostage to an ideological anti-business bill is wrong'.</para>
<para>Senators Pocock and Lambie have put forward splitting of the bill. They say this is a sensible approach to ensure the non-controversial and broadly supported elements of the bill are passed without delay and they urge the government to support these bills.</para>
<para>Let's look at COSBOA, because small businesses have gone into meltdown over the government's proposed changes to the way they have to employ people. COSBOA are also being constructive. They represent small businesses in this country. Let's look at what their position is. While opposing most of the changes, COSBOA says 'less contentious elements of the Bill should be carved away from the Closing the Loopholes package'. It said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Those measures include provisions to close a loophole in the small business redundancy scheme, establish workplace protections for family and domestic violence survivors, expand workers’ compensation for employees experiencing PTSD, and reshape Australia’s asbestos safety regime to also cover silicosis and other silica-related diseases.</para></quote>
<para>We also have the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry. They said splitting the bill is a sensible proposal that will allow the Labor Party to proceed quickly with the non-contentious elements of the legislation. They say business is supportive of the implementation of work health and safety measures relating to PTSD for first responders, domestic violence and silicosis. They, like so many others, believe that the more complex parts, the more confusing parts, of the bill do demand greater scrutiny. The government, through the media, is currently announcing changes to these more controversial parts on the run—I mean, we haven't even seen the drafting of these changes—which shows the step taken in the Senate today is the right step forward if you want to be constructive in the omnibus legislation.</para>
<para>As I've said, the coalition are prepared to be constructive. We are prepared to support the passage of the non-controversial parts of this legislation. Senator Watt could not provide one credible reason. He said a lot. Some of it even sounded good, but when you scratch the surface and you look at the facts that do not sustain Senator Watt's arguments, guess what? They fall away completely. Quite frankly, this is a test for the government. Will they actually support the crossbench and the coalition in being constructive in relation to their own legislation? Only time will tell.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The provisions in the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023 and related bills before us are important. They are changes that will make real benefits of significance to many Australian workers. We Greens support the changes that are before us. We support and thank the government for the work that embedded these changes in the closing loopholes bill. I agree with many of the comments that have been made here this morning by Senator Lambie and Senator David Pocock.</para>
<para>The bills make important steps forward in relation to workers compensation and rehabilitation. They strengthen workers' health and safety. They ensure workers in smaller businesses have access to redundancy payments; they improve provisions there. Most importantly, alongside all of those measures, they strengthen workplace protections for people experiencing family and domestic violence. All of these are matters that this parliament should be passing legislation on. They have all been there for many years, in front of us, demanding action, and they are matters that the Greens are keen to see the parliament step up to. We want to see vigorous action around them.</para>
<para>I will just mention the first responders, and Senator Pocock spoke at length about them. These moves will simplify the access of workers to compensation when they're suffering from PTSD. That is such an important measure for the AFP, firefighters, ambos and emergency services communications operators. The Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 will broaden that agency's functions to include coordinating action on silica safety and silica related diseases. That's so important to so many families supporting people affected by those diseases. That will include developing and promoting a silica national strategic plan. Those are all good steps in the right direction. In terms of protections against discrimination, we Greens are very supportive of improving protections against discrimination for employees who have been or continue to be subjected to family and domestic violence. Specifically, these measures will prohibit an employer from taking adverse action against a worker or a potential worker on the basis that they've experienced family and domestic violence. Finally, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023 addresses an important implication arising from the small business redundancy exemption. It will give support to those employees who are often right at the end of the chain of a series of redundancies and find themselves, under existing provisions, missing out on the support that they need when a business becomes insolvent.</para>
<para>We need all of those changes. We need them as soon as possible. But we need a whole lot of other things as well. There are massive changes underway in our labour market that must take us beyond dealing with these very important emergency measures. In some households, these will make a difference at a time when households are under very particular stress—when workers' health and safety is at risk. But we also need to raise our eyes from those matters and consider the larger question of how our workplaces have changed and how our legislation around workplaces is limping along behind.</para>
<para>We need urgent change in our industrial relations on other matters as well. We've seen a massive shift in our workforce in terms of its gender composition, its care responsibilities and the security of employment. We are now a labour market which is a standout in international comparison in terms of the proportion of workers who have no security in their jobs. They don't know if they'll have a job tomorrow. A quarter of Australian workers are now employed on casual terms. Many of them are actually in permanent work. They need protection from the insecurity that affects them, their families and their ability to hold the household budget together. That's a quarter of our workforce. A third of our workforce is precarious in more general terms. They're on short-term contracts. They're driving on a gig platform. They're very insecure. This is not how the Australian labour market should operate, and we need urgent action. It is urgent that we see action to protect casual employees, give them stronger pathways to permanency and prevent the ongoing exploitation of casual work.</para>
<para>Work is now a place where we see widening inequality. We see people at the bottom of the labour market not only insecure but very poorly paid or in a black economy where they're not paid the wages they should be. Wage theft is endemic in our labour market. It especially affects young people, and it's particularly important for migrant workers. This is a pressing question. People are having their wages stolen in very significant numbers across a range of occupations, and there's a lot of evidence about it. It imposes big costs on workers and our economy. And it's not just wages; it's also superannuation. In fact, if you look at the numbers and the proportion of money that's lost to workers in forgone and stolen superannuation, they're several times larger—in the billions—than wage theft more narrowly defined.</para>
<para>The work done by this Senate and the committee I chaired on work and care and the need to update our industrial relations legislation is also pressing. We need to improve workplace relations systems that support workers who are holding responsibility for the care of someone else while they're at work, whether it's for care of someone with a disability, for child care or for aged care. We've got systems of industrial relations in our country that don't give people security around their rosters. It's incredibly important for families and working parents to know what hours they're working tomorrow and next week. Too many Australian workers don't have any security around their rosters. That's also a pressing question. So there are many issues that arise out of our work and care report that should be considered as matters of urgency in our industrial relations reform.</para>
<para>Our workplace relations laws are inadequate. The opposition has had years to attempt to fix some of these problems, and it has failed to do so. Personally, I have appeared with many other workplace relations academics over decades, bringing forward evidence about insecurity of employment and the high cost it imposes on young people, and we've failed to see action on that front and other fronts. It is vitally important that we look at the changing nature of the workforce and update our industrial relations law fulsomely to deal with a wide range of issues that affect workers in Australia. We need a fair and equitable industrial relations system that upholds the rights of all working people and goes to the question of a secure job, receiving the pay rate that you properly should be and being free from discrimination of all forms. Working people have the right to just and favourable conditions of work and, of course, appropriate protection when their small business becomes insolvent, as well as protection for their health and safety in relation to the chemicals and materials they use at work. Security of employment and wage theft are matters which also matter a great deal. Our workplace laws should also be supporting people in terms of their workplace balance, in the ability they have to put together care for kids and turn up for work. Our provisions at present are inadequate.</para>
<para>I want to particularly mention the fact that many, many workers on labour hire contracts work alongside others and are not paid a fair or equivalent rate of pay. We've heard this in inquiries before the Senate previously, for example, from mining workers, who are working in what are called casual or contract jobs. They know what their shifts will be for a whole year ahead of them, but they're termed 'casual' or 'contract', and, in some cases, they're receiving up to $50,000 a year less than the permanent workers they work alongside. That's a failure in our labour hire regulation and our protection of casuals and contract workers. There needs to be fairness in pay across a workplace, regardless of the form of your employment. They deserve parity, and we need an industrial relations law that properly protects that fairness.</para>
<para>We need more than that. Many of us now can carry our office and our workplace in our back pocket in the form of our phone. The boundaries around work, the nature of the workplace and the places and times that you do work are now, for many of us, dictated by the phone we carry in our pocket. So we need a new right that recognises changing technologies and changing practices of work and allows workers, once they've done their hours of work, to turn off. We need a right to disconnect. It is vital. Many countries around the world are recognising this. They're recognising that unlimited, unbounded hours of work which give the boss the chance to send you an email and require a response in the middle of the night or on a Sunday afternoon are bad for you, bad for your health and bad for your family's health. They put pressure on you and your household and are undermining community life for too many Australian workers and their families. We need a right to disconnect. It is vitally important that we start to build back control over working time and regulate and contain it to your contracted hours of work. Unpaid overtime is endemic in too many Australian workplaces. It leads to wage theft and is a great injustice for too many workers.</para>
<para>Australian workers now work, on average, six weeks of unpaid overtime every year. A lot of it is because they don't have the right to turn off their office, to turn off their phone, and to work their legal hours. That amounts to over $92 billion in unpaid wages across the economy every year. We've seen very strong evidence of the cost of that in the recent reports of employment conditions in very large consultancies.</para>
<para>Elizabeth Broderick did an analysis of EY recently—a very big workforce, thousands of workers—where conditions at work were incredibly difficult for too many young people, too many people at the bottom of a very large workplace who were unable to control their hours of work and felt extreme consequences for their personal health and for their households. They worked long and unsafe hours. They felt exposed to bullying because the business model pressures them to work long hours and the culture of chasing money at the top of their business creates appalling working conditions for them. They need protection from untrammelled working demands from their bosses, and they need a right to disconnect.</para>
<para>We know the research evidence tells us that, if you work long hours, if you're bullied, if you are under unfair pressure at work, you are going to be affected in your sleep, you'll certainly suffer stress consequences, you're highly likely to experience burnout and your relationships will be degraded. This is an important reason to contain and actually regulate working hours and introduce a right to disconnect. Almost 20 countries, including France, Spain, Italy and Ireland, have already taken a step in this direction, and it is urgent that this parliament consider ways in which we adapt our workplace regulation to deal with that kind of change in our community. I have mentioned super theft. That is also an important thing where we need to provide greater support for workers so that, when their employer knowingly steals their super, they have the opportunity to bring their employer to account and for thar behaviour to be criminalised. It's a very, very important additional steps.</para>
<para>While I support the four measures that are in these bills and the Greens strongly support the need to protect things like access to support if you are suffering from domestic violence or from silica related illness and a range of other matters, there is so much more that is needed in our industrial relations system, and we believe we need to make moves on a much broader front. We need to be protecting our gig workers. We have seen evidence in committees before this parliament that these workers are losing their lives because of unfair conditions, very poor pay and an unregulated gig sector. We know that we need to protect workers who are in labour hire conditions to provide some fairness and parity in their working conditions. We need to criminalise both wage and superannuation theft, and we must address the insecurity of workers in so many Australian workplaces. It is affecting our productivity, it is affecting fairness for individual workers, and this makes putting together any kind of life outside of work incredibly difficult.</para>
<para>We're an international delinquent on that front, and it is a pressing question that this parliament should consider as a matter of urgency. There are so many urgent problems sitting before us., not least trying to improve the conditions of casual workers in terms of their access to sick and annual leave. We have workers in this country who work regularly every week for a year and have no access to paid sick leave or annual leave. That's an important provision that we Greens would also like to see addressed. In conclusion, we need to see all kinds of changes that actually respond to the nature of the workplace as it is now, and that includes a range of measures. These measures are included in these four bills, but many other measures are urgent needs for Australian workers if we want a just workplace, if we want fairness for workers and if we want safe work for our Australian workforce.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protection Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Exemption and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023. As Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock have noted, these bills split out four parts of the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023. In fact, the Senate's Education and Employment Legislation Committee has a public hearing scheduled for tomorrow right here in this building. It is highly unusual that there would be an attempt to pass parts of a bill through the Senate before a Senate committee has even finished reviewing it.</para>
<para>The justification given for the need to split out these four parts of the bill now is that other reforms require more time. Let's examine that argument. We have an exceptionally comprehensive inquiry. Tomorrow we will have the sixth public hearing. We have travelled to Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, Launceston and Rockhampton and finally we'll hold a hearing in Canberra tomorrow. We have heard from workers, unions, employers and employer groups, academics and advocates from around the country. In fact, by any metric this has been the most comprehensive inquiry into any piece of industrial relations legislation since the first Fair Work Bill in 2008. We've had more hearings, heard more hours of testimony from more witnesses and received more submissions than any IR inquiry since the Fair Work Bill.</para>
<para>Even before this inquiry was launched, the reforms in the bill had been extensively discussed in the public domain and in private consultations for years. In February 2021, 2½ years ago, then opposition leader Anthony Albanese announced Labor's Secure Australian Jobs plan, which included 'rights for gig economy workers through the Fair Work Commission', 'casual work properly defined in law' and 'a crackdown on cowboy labour hire firms to guarantee same job, same pay'. These were all publicly announced 2½ years ago. There were consultation papers on these reforms released on 7 April, months and months ago. I struggle to remember any reforms which have been subject to such extensive and lengthy consultation and public scrutiny as these.</para>
<para>So here's the truth of the matter: the big business groups who oppose the bill today opposed the reforms the day they were announced in February 2021. The Australian Industry Group put out a media release that very day, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Taking away the flexibility that labour hire businesses and their clients need would reduce jobs and investment and threaten the jobs of hundreds of thousands of labour hire workers.</para></quote>
<para>The release made similar ridiculous statements about the casual and gig reforms. If the Ai Group, the Business Council, the Minerals Council and the Master Builders all opposed these reforms the moment they were announced, then I can guarantee you that they will oppose them tomorrow, they'll oppose them in February and they'll oppose them until their dying breath. It doesn't matter how many months this inquiry takes, how many hearings we have or how many workers and academics say they are wrong: they aren't going to change their minds. All these big business groups want is more time to run misleading and, frankly, ridiculous advertising campaigns.</para>
<para>The Minerals Council have admitted that they have spent tens of millions of dollars campaigning against this bill and plan to spend $24 million. Just this week, we saw media coverage in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline>, supposedly of Restaurant and Catering Australia complaining about the impact on casuals in cafes. But, if you actually read it, it says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Restaurant and Catering Australia … has joined forces with the … Minerals Council of Australia (MCA) to reject the AHA-government deal.</para></quote>
<para>It goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Legal advice released by the MCA, prepared by Corrs Chambers Westgarth …</para></quote>
<para>How many suburban cafes and restaurants do the Minerals Council represent? The answer is none. BHP and the Minerals Council are bankrolling and astroturfing this campaign. This is the same Minerals Council that spent years running big propaganda campaigns claiming that climate change didn't exist and opposing super profits taxes.</para>
<para>I know that Senator Pocock is a consistent critic of the tactics of the big mining lobby when it comes to climate and energy policy. I know that both Senator Pocock and Senator Lambie are consistent advocates for greater transparency and less corporate influence in this building. I know that both senators have also raised concerns about the influence of Qantas on federal governments, and I support them on all these initiatives, but we need to recognise that what is happening with this bill is the exact same thing. Splitting this bill is an early Christmas present for the Minerals Council, Qantas and others like them. By passing this bill in full, we'll be standing up to those big corporate interests on behalf of working families across the country.</para>
<para>I'm not being dismissive about what has been raised about the comprehensiveness of the bill, but what creates complexity in our workplace laws is when some employers spend millions upon millions on lawyers and consultants to find loopholes. That is true for our tax laws, it's true for our environmental laws and it's true for our workplace laws. Our tax laws are complex because we have giant consulting firms like PwC who exist to find and exploit tax loopholes. Qantas splitting its workforce across 38 companies is complex.</para>
<para>The way some employers engage casuals and engage in sham contracting for years at a time is complex.</para>
<para>The least complex thing we do is just tear away everyone's workplace rights and let them fend for themselves. There are many in the Liberals and Nationals who actually support that approach. We are already tired of that 19th century view. We had slavery. That wasn't complex. We had the Hungry Mile on our wharves and workplaces. That wasn't complex. In a utopian world, we could get rid of our workplace laws, employers would just do the right thing and people would make enough to feed their families and have a dignified standard of living. But, unfortunately, that's not the world that we live in. In the real world, bad employers find and exploit loopholes to rip off people and compete unfairly with good employers, of which there are many.</para>
<para>We have heard from many victims of these loopholes in the inquiry. Last week in Rockhampton, we heard from a mineworker, Brodie Allen, who works for BHP's internal labour hire company Operation Services. Brodie said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I work for BHP Operation Services. I've been coalmining and in the industry for seven years. I've been labour hire the entire time, so I go in and do the same job as everybody else, but I'm paid $40,000 less a year to do the exact same thing.</para></quote>
<para>Who's going to tell Brodie that he has to wait to get fair treatment at work so that they can let BHP and the Minerals Council spend $24 million on an ad campaign?</para>
<para>In Launceston, we heard from Peta Chesshire, an aged-care worker in northern Tasmania. Peta said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I've been an aged-care worker for 24 years … The bulk of our casual staff are working two to three jobs … We need to take away the casual role. We need more permanent staff. We're such a low-paying industry we can't entice anyone anymore into aged care. If you take away the permanency … there's nothing to make people work in … aged-care … There's nothing there, and it's not safe for us. It's not safe for our residents. We need more security.</para></quote>
<para>Who's going to tell Peta and her colleagues they have to wait for a permanent job because the Minerals Council need more time to campaign against the bill?</para>
<para>We've heard from Sarah de Wilt, a Qantas flight attendant who did not even know she wasn't directly employed by Qantas until four months after she started flying. Sarah said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's … disheartening … confusing, a little bit demoralising, knowing that you're there on the cart doing the same thing … You are cleaning up the vomit on the floor alongside somebody else. You were doing 19-hour duty and … keeping each other awake the same as everyone else, wearing the exact same uniform … and then just to accidentally find out.</para></quote>
<para>Ms de Wilt and her labour hire colleagues earn as little as $50,000 per year while their directly employed colleagues on the same flight doing the same job start at around $90,000. It's not fair and it's not safe. How long do they have to wait for fairness?</para>
<para>The premise of these bills is that these four provisions are not contentious and the rest of the bill is contentious. It's an arbitrary distinction. The Senate inquiry into the bill has not reported yet. There may be amendments required for these four parts of the bill as a result of the committee process. How can we pre-empt possible amendments by passing these provisions now?</para>
<para>It's not correct to say that the rest of the bill is controversial. Take the wage theft criminalisation provisions, which have been supported by a clear majority of organisations at the committee. It's so non-contentious that those opposite almost legislated it 2½ years ago. Even the Liberals and Nationals supported criminalising wage theft—heaven forbid! Take industrial manslaughter provisions, which have wide support across the community, or the road transport provisions, which are supported by the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation, the National Road Transport Association, the National Road Freighters Association, the Australian Trucking Association and, of course, the largest small-business organisation in Australia, the Transport Workers Union, not to mention many major road transport employers and other employer organisations.</para>
<para>How can you possibly write these reforms off as too contentious to pass when every major industry stakeholder supports them?</para>
<para>Take the gig reforms. This morning we saw Uber, Menulog and Doordash announce their support for these reforms. Through the committee process we heard other gig companies, including Hireup, Sidekicker and Humdrum, support these reforms. To say that those reforms are contentious is, again, not giving the complete picture of the broad support they have.</para>
<para>As you go through each part of the bill, you'll see there is significant support for much of it. Where there is opposition, often it's from organisations who are opposed to anything that gives working people more rights and protections and lifts wages across the community, like the Minerals Council and those on their funding teat, or the other organisations who have been misled by the scare tactics of the Mineral Council campaign. The committee heard from witnesses, put onto the program at the request of the opposition, who were nominally opposed to the bill but clearly didn't actually understand it. Lynas Rare Earths CEO Amanda Lacaze is an example. She has been in the media complaining about the labour hire reforms. At the hearing, when it was put to her that they don't even have an enterprise agreement and so wouldn't be covered, she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I do accept that today, potentially, there is no effect on the business.</para></quote>
<para>We had similar evidence from two labour hire companies that the opposition hand-picked to appear at the same hearing, and we've seen the Australian Hotels Association come out in support of the casual reforms. We've got entire parts of the full bill which are broadly supported and not being split out. Where there are so-called contentious parts of the bill, the employer groups can't even agree on whether they impact them or not.</para>
<para>How can we stand in this place and, on such flawed reasoning, leave behind hundreds of thousands of people like Brodie, Peta and Sarah? Most importantly of all, the working people these four parts of this bill are designed to protect don't even want the bill split. Earlier I quoted evidence from Scott Weber, from the Police Federation of Australia, and Simone Haigh, a paramedic from Tasmania. Both pointed out the importance of the parts of this bill being put together. The people on the front lines—our cops and ambos—are telling us we need the bill passed as a whole. This is a massive bank of evidence that tells us that insecure work is a safety risk. It's our police officers and paramedics who, quite literally, are left to pick up the pieces.</para>
<para>Emeritus Professor Michael Quinlan from the University of New South Wales told the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the major 'negative health and safety outcomes' associated with insecure work arrangements, compared with full-time permanent jobs, are:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Higher incidence/frequency of injuries, including fatalities</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Poorer physical and mental health …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Poor knowledge of and access to regulatory employment rights and less willingness to raise OHS concerns.</para></quote>
<para>Labour hire mine workers are at greater risk in our mines. Truck drivers and gig workers are dead and injured on our roads unless we pass the full bill. First responders are left to pick up the pieces. These bills fail to deal with the complex ways in which fat-cat employers make our workplaces more dangerous and more deadly and unfairly compete with good employers. That's why the Minerals Council— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support these bills, and I commend Senators Lambie and David Pocock for bringing these very important matters before the Senate. As has been discussed already this morning in this debate, these bills cover elements of the overarching omnibus bill that the government has brought forward. These are the most urgent matters that relate to the bill. The argument of the government has been that every part of the closing loopholes bill is urgent and needs to be dealt with. That's their contention. If that were the case then the urgent elements they're talking about would commence with royal assent to the bill, but we know that the bill has commencement dates that are some way off into the future. The bills we're discussing here—the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023—can all commence right away.</para>
<para>These are elements that can support right away the people that these bills affect.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge Senators Lambie and Pocock for their work that they've done in bringing this forward but also for their participation in the inquiry that we're holding. As Senator Sheldon said, it's a comprehensive inquiry. It certainly is. I've been to every single one of the hearings that we've held. I think Senator Sheldon and I are the only two that have been to every one, but I know that Senators Lambie and Pocock have really stepped up and done their fair share in making sure that they're getting themselves across the bills and asking some very insightful questions of witnesses throughout that inquiry.</para>
<para>The thing that we really have heard consistently in every hearing that we've held—there have been five hearings so far—is that these elements that are in the broader omnibus bill are supported. They're not controversial. There is support from everyone. There's really no reason why they should be delayed because of the examination that is required for the more controversial elements of the closing loopholes bill. So this really does need to be supported.</para>
<para>Maybe it's cynical—I've only been here four and a bit years—but I am disappointed that the government have put these in their broader industrial relations reform bill, because they really should have been dealt with separately in the first place anyway. We shouldn't have had to go through what we went through this morning in suspending standing orders to allow the debate ion this to occur. The government should have just brought them through discretely to enable their passage quite efficiently. But I think it's pretty obvious to anyone that's following this that they were put into the broader industrial relations reform bill so that it would just put greater pressure, particularly upon the crossbench and, indeed, the entire Senate to try to get it through because they're urgent and they need to happen, as a way to carry through the more contentious elements of the broader bill and certainly the elements of the bill that really shouldn't be there at all—for example, the union delegates rights. Those elements were to commence on 1 January, I understand. It's a demonstration that that's really what this is actually about, that this is just about repaying the debt that the Labor Party have got to the unions, back to those that put them here in the first place, and so that's really what this is about.</para>
<para>Senator Sheldon spoke and he conceded that the broader bill is complex. We certainly are in agreement there, and I think everyone acknowledges that it is comprehensive as well, as he also said That's right. He acknowledged the comprehensive nature of it and the complexity, which has justified the need to have a really solid and comprehensive examination of the bill. I at this point want to thank all members of that committee for the way that we've been able to go through that inquiry while we're coming at it from very different angles. The way that that committee is able to operate, going through some very complex issues—contentious issues in many cases. We don't speak over the top of each other. We're civil with each other. We get through the questions and we allow each other to do that. I commend Senator Sheldon for the way that he chairs that committee. So he's right to talk about the fact that it has been a good inquiry, that there has been and continues to be good examination of the issues.</para>
<para>But I've got to say that throughout the inquiry not once have I heard anyone raise any issue with these particular bills that Senators Lambie and Pocock are bringing forward, which undermines the argument that has been made by the government that we really shouldn't be doing it in this way and that we should just essentially pass the closing the loopholes bill substantively and quickly. Senator Sheldon also said that it's unusual that we would be dealing with these bills now while there's still an inquiry going on into the closing the loopholes bill. But, as I said, no evidence has come forward that would suggest in any way that there needs to be a pause or there needs to be further examination of the parts of the closing the loopholes bill that these bills address. No-one has brought any evidence on that and no-one has come and asked questions that would even question the validity of these bills and whether or not they are going to meet the needs they address.</para>
<para>Senator Sheldon said there may have to be amendments to the parts of the closing the loopholes bill that these bills address. Again, we haven't seen any evidence that would suggest that is the case. In any case, even if there were, those amendments could still be considered at a later time. We amend bills in this place all the time, so it's not right to use that as the reason for why we shouldn't be doing what we're doing here today.</para>
<para>As I said, the vast majority of witnesses that appeared before or made a submission to the inquiry—there have been 167 submissions to the overall inquiry—have indicated their support for carving out the less contentious provisions of the bill. That's exactly what we're doing here today, because these bills relate to silica related diseases and to discrimination against people suffering family or domestic violence or using redundancy payments for the same purpose.</para>
<para>During the Sydney public hearing, Senator David Pocock, who gave a contribution earlier today, asked the Australian Federal Police Association when they knew that the presumptive legislation—something the association have been advocating for some time—would be included in the omnibus bill. The association's response was that they didn't know that it was going to be part of the omnibus bill. So they were consulted on this very important issue for them and they were given assurances—from what we got from their evidence—that this was an important issue that the government wanted to deal with, but at no time were they ever told that this was going to be caught up in, I believe, the cynical way that these bills have been caught up in the overall omnibus bill. This is despite the government saying they've had extensive consultation with these stakeholders. The association were not told at any time that this was going to be caught up in the omnibus bill.</para>
<para>This is why it's important that the presumptive legislation be passed as quickly as possible. There is no legitimate reason why it's caught up. These non-contentious provisions need to pass so that measures, like those covered in the presumptive legislation, can commence as soon as possible. Those measures would commence on 1 January—in just a month and a half's time.</para>
<para>The same applies to the other non-controversial provisions of the bill. Regarding silica safety and silica related diseases, the Master Builders said only a couple of days ago:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency Act 2013</inline> alter the functions of ASEA to include coordinating action on silica safety and silica-related diseases.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We support ASEA being handed this additional role. Master Builders considers that ASEA has made a significant and positive difference in discharging its existing remit to improve the level of asbestos-related awareness, coordination and safety outcomes.</para></quote>
<para>They were urging the government to pass these bills and to support these bills. So there is wide support for the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023. It's disappointing that it was included as part of the overall omnibus bill, because it is a necessary examination of those issues raised by the Master Builders, and its inclusion in the omnibus bill is potentially delaying the commencement of the provisions in the legislation before the Senate today.</para>
<para>But, through the work of Senators Lambie and David Pocock in bringing these matters before the Senate, we have the chance to vote on these aspects of the government's bill immediately, today. In doing so—if these bills are supported—we'll be able to see these non-contentious but very important provisions support the individuals and families who need them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed, they are non-contentious but important, yet we find ourselves in this somewhat politicised environment debating whose reforms get to be brought forward at this point and whose get left behind.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, please resume your seat. We've just sat through a contribution by Senator O'Sullivan during which there were no interjections. The same courtesy, in abiding by the standing orders, which say that interjections are disorderly, is to be given to Senator Pratt. As I said earlier today, if senators wish to make a contribution they should put themselves on the speaking list.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Madam President. I respect the chamber and the way it engages in these issues. We on this side know that, when it comes to reforms as part of our closing loopholes legislation, there are inevitably a great many issues on which we and those on the opposition side will disagree. Quite naturally, that puts the crossbench in the spotlight as to where these reforms are headed. So it's perhaps not surprising that we should be a little concerned that the crossbench have just plucked up the baseline of issues upon which this chamber can agree, when, in our view, there are other issues just as important to the future health, prosperity, workplace security and safety of Australian workers.</para>
<para>In looking at the provisions of these bills, I can say that yes, on the one hand they're simple and straightforward. On the other hand, are they a panacea for workers who are made redundant and miss out on their workplace entitlements? Will they fix the loophole whereby a business can downsize into a small business and then, when it's found to be insolvent, escape paying its entitlements? No, they're not really a panacea for these issues, and I'll explain why.</para>
<para>The simple fact is that these days most of these entitlements are paid out by government under the Fair Entitlements Guarantee. In these situations there is a problem for people who are made redundant when, over time, an entity goes from being a big business to being a small business and downsizes along the way. It's actually quite uncommon for that big business to have paid out on everyone's redundancies along the way and to have missed the boat on just the few people who remain. That's because, frankly, these days there's a mode of economic operation whereby a big business, when it's about to go insolvent and is working through those issues, does its best to offload its redundancy liabilities onto the government as early as it can, because that's how it can maintain the equity in its insolvent business as it moves into those stages.</para>
<para>I've got plenty of examples where that has proven to be the case. Take, for example, the case of Ovato's printing division. In situations like this, you see big business exploiting the Fair Entitlements Guarantee. You can also see big business abusing the Fair Entitlements Guarantee. You also see businesses applying to the Fair Work Commission to have the amount of redundancy pay already reduced in order to keep their business as a going concern.</para>
<para>The point I want to make to the crossbench is: yes, there is a little loophole here that needs to be fixed for when a big business becomes a small business, in that those people in those small businesses will no longer have the same entitlements under the Fair Entitlements Guarantee that they would otherwise have had. It's not the big business not paying them out; it's the government under the Fair Entitlements Guarantee paying them out. These are all things that flow down through this legislation that actually need to be looked at holistically in the context of our IR reforms. That is because our businesses negotiate agreements with their workers, especially a big business that might turn into a small business later on. They find plenty of other loopholes to get around these things, believe you me! We will close this one loophole, but big businesses get away with doing things like cancelling an award They cancel the award so that the redundancy entitlements disappear overnight, so that the 13 years of redundancy entitlement you might have accrued in a workplace like Ovato mean nothing. It's not because they've gone from being a big business to a small business; it simply means nothing because big business has found a loophole inside our employment laws to do workers out of their entitlements.</para>
<para>We've debated these issues over and over again. Do you remember when we amended the Corporations Act? We amended the Corporations Act to say, 'Big business can't restructure itself and trade away someone's redundancy entitlements.' We amended the Corporations Act to ensure that that be the case. Those provisions of the Corporations Act to prevent business from doing that have never been used because they're completely ineffective. There was a big song and dance: 'We will never let this happen again.' But, time and time again, we see workers done out of their hard-earned entitlements, and we see government now legislated to pick up the pieces under the Fair Entitlements Guarantee. Government is picking up the pieces after big business did over workers. At the time the Fair Entitlements Guarantee came in place, big business just happened to be mates of the former government, and they didn't want the stain on them of being seen to be walking away from workers.</para>
<para>So here we are today in this place. Sure, this will pass. It's probably a good thing, but I really just want to remind the crossbench that we need to continue to work through these issues in good faith and not leave people behind on all the other mounting and important issues.</para>
<para>We've got a much bigger job to do here, and that will take our time and attention. Sure, let's do the low-hanging fruit, let's do the easy things that are no-brainers. But let's not lose sight of what's really going on here and who this really panders to in terms of the labour dynamics in our nation. We need workers to be able to come home from work safely and take home a decent pay packet for a fair day's work because we have big problems in this area. We have big problems because the bargaining table is not fair. There are so many other loopholes that we must fix in order to achieve the outcomes we need. We are not going to fix redundancies and unfairness in entitlements in these uncertain economic times when and more businesses are likely to go bankrupt. These bills don't fix those things. We need comprehensive, holistic industrial relations reform to put our nation on the right footing.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie and Senator Pocock, I congratulate you for bringing forward this set of bills, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023, the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023 and the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023. You really did bell the cat, and we just heard from Senator Pratt the belling of the cat. The fact is that these bills are low-hanging fruit because I suspect it is very clear that the entire Senate supports them. We shouldn't take anyone's vote for granted, but it seems as though the entire Senate will support these bills through this chamber in a very quick fashion.</para>
<para>They are low-hanging fruit, but this legislation also bells the cat on the wedge the Labor Party was attempting to impose on the chamber through the omnibus IR bill. I ask those listening: what have the very important provisions to do with first responders in these bills got to do with so-called same job, same pay? Absolutely nothing. What have the very important provisions to do with silica dust in these bills, which we will pass today, got to do with casual workers? Absolutely nothing. These provisions were there to make it more difficult for this chamber to address these very important issues. They were grouped into an omnibus bill by the Labor government to make it more difficult for this chamber to deal with this legislation and put pressure on the crossbench and the opposition. That was the entire design, Senator Pratt.</para>
<para>The fact is, as Senator Cash so rightly pointed out, that the vast bulk of the provisions in this legislation don't even come into effect until after the normal reporting date and consideration in this chamber next year. The rest of the bill, the more controversial aspects of the bill, will in the normal course of events be considered well before the implementation date of all those measures. The only one that is scheduled to come into effect earlier concerns union workplace delegates—surprise, surprise! The Labor government through this omnibus bill is doing the bidding of the unions. That was clear on day one. The other provisions in the bill, the parts of the omnibus bill that have been split out, very sensibly by the crossbench today, deal with matters that are completely unrelated to defending the union movement: giving the union movement new power, giving the union movement new powers of entry to workplaces in this country, giving the union movement new access via chain agreements to training levies and health and safety levies.</para>
<para>I mean, the reality of what the government was doing here was very transparent. I congratulate the crossbench for seeing through what the government was doing and I congratulate them for taking these non-controversial parts of the omnibus bill— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>24</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The time allotted for the consideration of these bills has now expired. The question is that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>24</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>24</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the 13th report of 2023 of the Selection of Bills Committee and I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 13 OF 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">9 November 2023</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Anne Urquhart (Government Whip, Chair)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Wendy Askew (Opposition Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Ross Cadell (The Nationals Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Pauline Hanson (Pauline Hanson's One Nation Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Nick McKim (Australian Greens Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Ralph Babet</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator the Hon. Anthony Chisholm</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator the Hon. Katy Gallagher</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Matt O'Sullivan</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator David Pocock</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Paul Scarr</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Lidia Thorpe</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Tammy Tyrrell</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator David Van</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Secretary: Tim Bryant 02 6277 3020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 13 OF 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 8 November 2023 at 7.08 pm</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee recommends that—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure and Other Measures) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 30 March 2024 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee recommends that the following bills <inline font-style="italic">not </inline>be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Health Insurance Amendment (Professional Services Review Scheme No. 2) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Small Business Redundancy Exemption) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Strengthening Protections Against Discrimination) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Asbestos Safety and Eradication Agency) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (First Responders) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Federal Courts Legislation Amendment (Judicial Immunity) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Supporting the Transition to Work) Bill 2023.</list>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Capital Territory Dangerous Drugs Bill 2023</list>
<list>Australian Education Amendment (Save Our Public Schools) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Childhood Gender Transition Prohibition Bill 2023</list>
<list>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Continuing ACCC Monitoring of Domestic Airline Competition) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Criminal Code Amendment (Inciting Illegal Disruptive Activities) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Crown References Amendment Bill 2023</list>
<list>Electoral Legislation Amendment (Lowering the Voting Age) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Amendment (Regional Forest Agreements) Bill 2020</list>
<list>Fair Work Amendment (Right to Disconnect) Bill 2023 [No. 2]</list>
<list>Freeze on Rent and Rate Increases Bill 2023</list>
<list>Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Amendment (Domestic Reserve) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Primary Industries (Excise) Levies Bill 2023</list>
<list>Primary Industries (Customs) Charges Bill 2023</list>
<list>Primary Industries (Services) Levies Bill 2023</list>
<list>Primary Industries Levies and Charges Collection Bill 2023</list>
<list>Primary Industries Levies and Charges Disbursement Bill 2023</list>
<quote><para class="block">Primary Industries (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(Anne Urquhart)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 November 2023</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure and Other Measures) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A complicated matter.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Various stakeholders</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">November 2023- March 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30 March 2024</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Wendy Askew</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>25</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Government business orders of the day as shown on today's order of business be considered from 12.15 pm;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Government business then be called on and considered till not later than 1.30 pm;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Government Business Notice of Motion No. 379 be considered during general business today.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>26</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>26</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave Of Absence</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senator Brown for 10 November 2023, for personal reasons;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator Gallagher for the 9th and 10th of November 2023, for personal reasons;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Senator McCarthy for 10 November on account of ministerial business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator Van be granted leave of absence for 6 November to 8 November for parliamentary reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>26</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>26</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>26</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matters be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 9 December 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Optus network outage that occurred on 8 November 2023 and its impact on Australians and the services that they rely on, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the communication from Optus to affected customers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the steps that Optus is taking to ensure that this does not happen again;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the compensation offered to affected customers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the role of government in ensuring Australians have reliable access to telecommunications technology; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) any other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the motion be amended to read as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matters be referred to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry and report by 9 December 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Optus network outage that occurred on 8 November 2023 and its impact on Australians and the services that they rely on, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the communication from Optus to affected customers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the steps that Optus is taking to ensure that this does not happen again;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the compensation offered to affected customers, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) compensation offered by Optus,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the role of the Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman and its compensation scheme, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) actions taken by the Federal Government to support affected customers to receive fair compensation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the role of government in ensuring Australians have reliable access to telecommunications technology;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) steps taken by the Federal Government to ensure the access to essential service in response to the outage, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) identification of affected government services,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the establishment of alternative contact arrangements for affected government services, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) communication with Australians on those alternative arrangements; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) actions taken by the Federal Government and the Australian Communications and Media Authority on the day of the outage; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) any other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing Senator Henderson's amendment but supporting this motion for the referral of the Optus network outage to the Environment and Communications References Committee for inquiry. Connectivity is absolutely essential for Australian consumers and businesses, and the impacts of yesterday's outage were particularly concerning. The government wants a successful and competitive telecommunications industry. It is vital for consumers, business and the regions. The government has today announced a post-incident telecommunications review into the Optus outage that affected millions of Australians yesterday. The minister has tasked her department with developing the terms of reference for a post-incident review. Additionally, the regulator, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, has independently commenced an assessment to investigate Optus compliance with the rules of requiring that emergency calls are successfully carried from mobile carriers to the emergency call person. It is critical that industry and governments take stock following large-scale outages. Given no network is immune, it is essential that communications and access to emergency services are maintained in times of network failure. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Henderson to business of the Senate No. 1 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:40]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that business of the Senate No. 1, as amended by Senator Henderson and moved by Senator Hanson-Young, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>28</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Cash, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that the Albanese Labor Government's Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023 is complex and requires intense scrutiny;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) requires the Education and Employment Legislation Committee to hold a public hearing on Monday, 22 January 2024 from 9.30 am to 5 pm for the purposes of its inquiry into the bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) to hear from representatives of the Department of Employment and Workplace Relations for no less than four hours, from 9.30 am,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) to hear from any additional witnesses, as resolved by the Education and Employment Legislation Committee, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Education and Employment Legislation Committee can resolve to conclude the hearing earlier only after paragraph (b)(i) is satisfied; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires that the Education and Employment Legislation Committee must not report earlier than its current reporting date of 1 February 2024.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting this motion. We have never supported any delay to this bill, and that remains the government's position. This should be called out for what it is: nothing more than a stunt designed to delay the bill further. This inquiry has already held more hearings than any other inquiry on industrial relations legislation in the history of the Fair Work Act. We don't support delaying the bill, because every day of delay is another day where workers in the gig economy and road transport industry have no minimum standards; wage theft remains not a criminal offence; labour hire can be used to undercut agreed rates of pay; and casuals can be on permanent hours for years on end without any of the security of permanent work. Voting to delay this bill is voting to keep the loopholes undercutting pay and conditions open. The government urges the Senate to reject any further delays to this bill.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 378 standing in the name of Senator Cash and moved by Senator Askew be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:48]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cbus Super Fund</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>29</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Bragg, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for the production of documents no. 350, agreed to by the Senate on 17 October 2023, relating to communications between CBUS Super Fund and the Treasurer and his office, has not been complied with,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Treasurer, in his response to the order, dated 6 November 2023, made a claim of public interest immunity on the basis that the documents sought are commercial in confidence, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the Senate has made it clear in its resolution of 30 October 2003 that a claim on this ground must be based on specified potential harm to commercial interests and any claim of commercial confidentiality must be accompanied by an explanation of the ensuing harm from disclosure; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claim made by the Treasurer, noting that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the claim that disclosure would provide an 'unfair insight into CBUS' private opinions and business affairs' is not a sufficient explanation of any ensuing harm from disclosure,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the claim that disclosure of commercial in confidence information has the potential to 'damage the frankness and candour of future consultation processes' is not a sufficient explanation of any ensuing harm from disclosure, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the public interest in disclosing the documents outweighs any potential effect on the commercial affairs of CBUS; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires the Minister representing the Treasurer to comply with the order by no later than midday on Monday, 13 November 2023.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government maintains that disclosure of the documents sought would provide an unfair insight into Cbus private opinions and business affairs. The disclosure of commercial-in-confidence information has the potential to damage the frankness and candour of future consultation processes. We maintain that the public interest immunity claimed in relation to the previous order is valid.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 380 standing in the name of Senator Bragg and moved by Senator Askew be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:55]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Industry, Science and Resources, Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>30</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move general business notices of motion Nos 381 and 382 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 381</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, by no later than 4 pm on 17 November 2023, any emails, file notes or briefing documents from, or received by, the Department of Industry, Science and Resources between 1 March 2023 and 30 September 2023 that mention Santos or their lobbyist, Ms Tracey Winters, and communications they made with JERA, Tokyo Gas or members of the Japanese Government in relation to the Barossa gas project and the Safeguard Mechanism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">GENERAL BUSINESS NOTICE OF MOTION NO. 382</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy, by no later than 4 pm on 17 November 2023, any emails, file notes or briefing documents from, or received by, the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water, between 1 March 2023 and 30 September 2023, that mention Santos or their lobbyist, Ms Tracey Winters, and communications they made with JERA, Tokyo Gas or members of the Japanese Government in relation to the Barossa gas project and the Safeguard Mechanism.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>30</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>30</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's probably not a more pressing issue in rural areas of our country than the takeover of land by industrialised renewable energy investments. These things have invaded our country over the past few years, primarily due to investors from overseas seeking to make a lot of money for themselves, which is fine. It's not a crime. But the way in which many of these solar and wind companies have run roughshod over people's property rights and their right to amenity in their local community is causing a massive backlash and reaction across our country.</para>
<para>I want to start today with a story from someone I met. I've met many people—hundreds of people—on this issue in the past year or so, but one individual's story struck me. He lives near a town called Calliope in Central Queensland, not far from where I live, and he's a proud farmer and cattle grazier. He lives on his farm.</para>
<para>If a solar farm is approved and built on his neighbour's property, not his own, he is now facing the prospect, when getting home, of having to drive through paddock upon paddock—nine kilometres—of solar panels. They will just completely blanket the entrance to his home. His home is near the boundary with his neighbour, and a nine-kilometre area on both sides of the road will be blanketed as far as the eye can see with solar panels. If you're listening, just think about that when you're driving home from work tonight—that you would have to drive through nine kilometres of that. It would take you roughly 10 minutes or so on these country roads just through solar panels that reflect the sun. Effectively, you wouldn't see a blade of grass or a tree. It's total destruction of our landscape and people's amenity. That person won't get any compensation and he doesn't have a say. There is no power for him to stop this. As I said, in my experience with some of these companies they take short shrift with the reasonable complaints and issues that locals are raising.</para>
<para>On top of the concerns that people have about how it affects their own local communities, there's also the issue of how it affects our local environment. West of where I live in Rockhampton there are hundreds of wind turbines planned to be built, almost all of them seeking to be built on ridgelines—on the tops of mountains. Of course, that's where the wind is and that's the economic benefit for those particular projects—to get up as high as they can. These new wind turbines get to a height of almost 300 metres. They're massive—they're as big as the Eiffel Tower. They're absolutely enormous and they will shadow the valleys in these areas. The environmental problem here is in the way that these areas in Central Queensland have developed over time. Graziers have tended not to clear the landscape on mountain tops, because it wasn't economic to do so when running cattle. Trees were cleared to provide paddock areas for growing cattle in the valleys and the lower areas. But the areas on the hilltops remained pristine, natural wilderness, and they are some of the only places where we continue to have abundant populations of koalas, sugar gliders and other endangered species.</para>
<para>Those areas now face destruction from these massive projects—these huge projects that are going in across Central Queensland. Because they want to build on the mountain tops, they have to do quite a lot of damage to these wilderness areas. And because these new wind turbines are so high—as I said, at almost 300 metres—they need a very flat pad to secure the appropriate foundations to keep the towers in place. To get that flat pad on a mountaintop they have to take off a lot of land. In an area near Kalapa, west of Rockhampton, some of these mountaintops are facing the removal of 20 to 30 metres of soil, just to get a sufficiently square pad for the foundations to be laid for these wind turbines. That's an enormous amount of sediment which is going to be moved from the tops of these mountains and an enormous amount of local vegetation that will be destroyed.</para>
<para>There are a few issues with that. Of course, there's concern for the local habitat which will be destroyed. There are also issues for the Great Barrier Reef. We've been told constantly—for decades now—that a farmer can't cut down a tree or can't change their land in this area because that would cause more sediment run-off to go into the Fitzroy River and then out to the Great Barrier Reef. How is it that an Australian farmer, an Australian landowner, can't really move one bit of dirt, basically, on their property without approval by the Greens and the government, and yet a foreign investor can come in and knock the tops off mountains onto the sides of hills and just walk away?</para>
<para>Where is all this sediment going to end up if it's pushed down the side of a mountain, which has been done in Clarke Creek? It's pushed down the side of a mountain, and next time it rains a lot—bang—all of it's going to end up in the river and out to the reef. We're told that does enormous damage to our coral. Where are the assessments of this? I've looked through lots of environmental impact statements on this, and there are very inadequate assessments of the wider impacts compared to what you typically have to do now in regard to farming and mining. As someone very succinctly said to me the other day, 'We're not going to save the polar bear by destroying the koala bear.' We're destroying our local habitats in this country and we are removing the wonderful natural landscapes we have all in some futile attempt to save polar bears to respond to climate change, apparently. It's not about that; it's about making money for the investors. The worst thing here is that no-one is pausing to look at what the impacts will be. Will we regret this in 10 to 15 years time?</para>
<para>I was sitting on a gentleman's back deck in Kalapa discussing this issue, and the whole community in Kalapa is effectively up in arms about what's proposed to happen in that area. I could see from this gentleman's back deck, having a cup of tea with him and his wife, the Stanwell coal-fired power station. It's probably five to 10 kilometres away, so I could see it clearly. The Stanwell Power Station has been there for 30 or 40 years with no real issues. The locals don't have a problem with it. It takes up a very small area of land and provides a lot of jobs. A lot of local graziers work there. This gentleman worked there in the past, and his income helped him buy his farm. Now he's a full-time grazier. It has a small impact because it sits on about 1,000 hectares of land, so its whole footprint is about 1,000 hectares. The proposed wind farm for the area is set to take up 10,000 hectares, so 10 times the size of the land occupied by the Stanwell coal-fired power station. What's worse is it will produce just a tenth of the power.</para>
<para>This is the fundamental problem with this so-called environmental move to renewable energy. It is not good for the environment. Solar and wind energy is not good for the environment because of the basic principle that it takes up too much of our environment. It takes up so much of our land to produce such small amounts of power. If we want to go to 82 per cent renewables, as the government does, we're going to need an enormous area of land to be covered with solar, wind and potentially batteries, and even more land for solar and wind if we want to move to hydrogen. Why are we having this massive impact on our natural environment? There's a recent study by Net Zero Australia, a group that's pro net zero and wants to deliver net zero emissions. It's a consortium of the University of Queensland, Princeton University and others. They estimate we would need an area the size of half of Victoria covered in solar and wind to meet our net zero emissions target—half of Victoria! When will we have the debate about whether this is what we should do to our natural landscape? Why would we destroy the environment in a futile attempt to protect it? Putting aside the fact that we account for only a small amount of carbon emissions, we're going to destroy our natural environment. If we do achieve our target and convince other countries to cut emissions at the same time—even if all that is done—what for? We will have lost our kingdom for a horse. We will have lost this beautiful country's natural landscapes, which will be destroyed totally unnecessarily.</para>
<para>There is another way. There are other options if we do want to reduce carbon emissions and don't want to extend the life of the Stanwell coal-fired power station. We could build a nuclear power station that has zero emissions and takes up a smaller footprint than the Stanwell coal-fired power station. They're even more energy dense, particularly given they don't need as much mining material. Uranium is incredibly energy dense—indeed, a can of coke filled with uranium will serve your energy needs for your life.</para>
<para>It's very energy dense. If you care about our natural environment and protecting the green and wonderful places of our country, you should be pro nuclear energy, because that's what's good for the environment. What's good for the environment is having a lower impact on the environment.</para>
<para>We often hear the other side say, regarding us, that we're the dinosaurs and that we want to hold on to old forms of power like coal. Yet these are the people pushing wind turbines. Wind turbines go back long before the coal industry. Wind turbines were one of the power sources of choice well before the industrial revolution. We're going back to that form of power. Back in the days when wind turbines were around, the world had to deforest large amounts of area to provide fuel for people's homes. The same thing is happening overseas now. I just got back from England, where they are converting coal-fired power stations to biomass. They're burning wood in old coal-fired power stations. They're getting the wood from North America, where they clear-fell forests, turn it into wood and burn the wood for the energy needs of those in England. Why are we destroying our forests for this? Why are we adopting these old technologies, which we've moved on from and improved our environment?</para>
<para>Even if we were to stay with coal, that would be better than going down this path. At least the coal industry doesn't require the large-scale deforestation of parts of our planet. It did deliver that environmental benefit when the industrial revolution occurred: Europe greened again. There are a lot more forests in Europe now than there were at the industrial revolution, and that's thanks to the coal industry. If we can provide cheap energy throughout our region we can cut air pollution. The biggest environmental issue in our region is air pollution, not carbon emissions. Air pollution kills six million people a year. Six million people a year die, and it's not from carbon dioxide; it's from the organic matter that is released when people burn straw, dung and low-quality coal right through our region. When poor people have to do that to stay warm and cook in their homes, that's how people die.</para>
<para>Using energy resources from this country, be it the high-quality coal used in a modern coal-fired power station or the gas or uranium we export, all of those energy exports help to cut the amount of people that die from air pollution every year. Instead, we are obsessed with one form of emission, carbon dioxide, which doesn't directly kill anyone; carbon dioxide doesn't cause you to cough, or sneeze or die in that direct fashion. But because of our obsession with just that one metric we're destroying all these other things. This happens all the time in life: when you obsess over one thing you forget about lots of other things in your life, and everything comes crashing down.</para>
<para>We need a better balance here in this debate. If we want to reduce our carbon emissions, let's do so in a way which doesn't destroy our natural environment—which is happening right through the bush. I ask the people in our cities who are listening to this, please listen to the greatest custodians of our environment in our country: our farmers. They live in the natural environment and understand what is happening on their farms. It may seem like renewable energy is clean and green when you see the advertisements on TV showing these wind and solar farms looking fantastic, but out on the ground on the front lines the reality is coming true. Please listen to our nation's farmers before it's too late and we destroy our natural environment.</para>
<para>That's why we need this inquiry—so we can hear from those people who know our environment best, who want to protect it and to make sure that our whole country can be left as good a natural environment for our children as we have been lucky enough to inherit as citizens of this nation.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And for the remaining minute and a half, Senator Hughes.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For those listening at home and for those in the chamber, this is what we on this side refer to as 'transmission Tuesday'. But transmission Tuesday has now been pushed to Thursday, because those opposite in the government have lost complete control of the Senate. It's an absolute shemozzle. What we're asking for—and this is our seventh request—is to establish an inquiry. We just want to have a look at the Rewiring the Nation program. In this race to 82 per cent renewables, the government—along with their mates in the Greens and Senator David Pocock—are absolutely standing against and refusing to allow this place just to have a look at what impact Rewiring the Nation is going to have.</para>
<para>We've just had a big referendum in this country around the Voice. And my colleague Senator Canavan just spoke about farmers, and they are absolutely critical to this debate.</para>
<para>What I find absolutely astounding is that one of the other impacts that will occur through the bulldozing of rural and regional areas, particularly, to put these power lines up will be on cultural heritage sites of Aboriginal people. So those opposite who claim to be all in favour of listening to Indigenous Australians and respecting their culture—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hughes, you will be in continuation when the debate resumes. It being 12.15, we will now move to government business orders of the day.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7043" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>33</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to share with the chamber that the coalition, having supported the Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023 in the House of Representatives, will be supporting the bill in this place. On this side of the Senate, we know that regulation must continue to serve that which it seeks to regulate and remain fit for purpose.</para>
<para>To comprehend this bill, we must consider first the importance of the Trade Marks Act 1995 in the regulation of intellectual property in Australia. The Trade Marks Act provides protection for logos, phrases, colours and sounds to the extent to which these trademarks serve as the distinctive markers of brands and their offerings. Further, the Olympic Insignia Protection Act 1987 safeguards the symbolic elements associated with the Olympic Games. The act bestows exclusive rights to the Australian Olympic Committee for the use and exploitation of Olympic symbols and expressions aiming to protect the sanctity and identity of the Olympics. This, of course, is crucial as we prepare for the 2032 summer Olympic Games in Brisbane. The evolving nature of intellectual property laws does, however, necessitate periodic reassessment. The existing framework, though robust, encounters challenges in certain facets, particularly in the realm of the Olympic insignia. The bill, comprised of six parts, endeavours to address these challenges whilst also ensuring that regulatory amendments stay true to the principles of effectiveness and capability.</para>
<para>I'm pleased to say that the bill seeks to legislate changes that were originally contained in the Regulator Performance Omnibus Bill 2022, first introduced by the former coalition government in February 2022. The omnibus bill sought to update or remove outdated administrative provisions across Commonwealth legislation that, firstly, imposed unnecessary regulatory burdens; secondly, prevented regulators from engaging with business; and, thirdly, supported compliance in a modern and flexible way. The omnibus bill of 2022 subsequently lapsed with the dissolution of the last parliament.</para>
<para>The coalition believes that the provisions in this bill, which are congruent with those contained in the omnibus bill of 2022, will have a positive regulatory impact and will give effect to technical improvements identified in the 2021 whole-of-government review of regulator performance, initiated by the former coalition government. The coalition is proud to have contributed to this body of work and is pleased to see it debated in the Senate today. The former coalition government's deregulation agenda has delivered dividends, and will continue to do so, with reforms including simplified business activity statements, Single Touch Payroll and the online hiring employees checklist—an employment contract tool that enables employers to generate an employment contract in just five minutes. These regulatory reforms taken together are expected to generate economic benefits to the tune of $21 billion over a decade, and it is precisely this long-term thinking that can establish the necessary preconditions for industry to thrive in our country once again.</para>
<para>In conclusion, the coalition believes the Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023 endeavours to uphold the principle that regulation should serve that which it seeks to regulate and remain adaptable to the times. It is on this basis that the bill should be supported. Whilst ensuring support from key stakeholders, including the Australian and international Olympic committees, the coalition supports this bill, which recognises the intricacies it identified when in government. These are the intricacies that are inherent in maintaining a regulatory framework that can stand the test of time and provide certainty to Australian industry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023 seeks to close a loophole in trademark legislation that would have allowed anyone to register a trademark for the Olympic insignia.</para>
<para>The bill clarifies that only the Australian Olympic Committee or the International Olympic Committee can register such a trademark, providing important consumer protection. The Greens' support of this particular bill, however, shouldn't be considered support or endorsement of where the IOC, the AOC and the federal, state and local governments are actually heading with the Brisbane 2032 Olympics. Hosting the Olympics in 2032 should be something that Brisbane and South-East Queensland residents can get really excited about. If well-planned, the Olympus could leave us with an incredible legacy.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023 addresses outdated administrative provisions across intellectual property (IP) legislation. The intellectual property system enables Australian businesses to protect and grow trusted brands, supporting economic growth and prosperity. It gives IP rights holders confidence to create new and innovative products and processes and build brand awareness, knowing their creative and intellectual investment can be protected and rewarded. This bill makes important improvements to the Australian IP system to create greater certainty for its users and the public.</para>
<para>The amendments clarifying the protection of Olympic insignia are crucial in the lead-up to the 2032 Brisbane Olympic Games. The games provide a major boost to the Australian economy and put Australia in the global spotlight. This bill will support the games by ensuring that only the Australian and International Olympic committees can register trademarks containing Olympic insignia. Major international sporting events often attract speculative or bad faith trademark applications years in advance of the event. With the Brisbane Olympic Games rapidly approaching, this is a timely amendment to strengthen the government's ability to reject bad faith Olympic applications.</para>
<para>The bill also removes unnecessary regulatory burdens for IP rights holders. It allows government to better engage with business and support compliance in a flexible way, by streamlining and modernising how trademark information is provided to the public. The amendments will reduce red tape, increase procedural fairness and give applicants more certainty when seeking intellectual property protection. Intellectual property contributes greatly to the Australian economy. I'm proud to help Australian businesses benefit from great ideas by supporting a modern and accessible intellectual property system which encourages trade, investment, innovation and creativity. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Statutory Declarations Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7074" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Statutory Declarations Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Statutory Declarations Amendment Bill 2023. This bill will make permanent one of the many changes the coalition made in response to COVID-19, which allowed for virtual signing of a statutory declaration. This gave Australians an additional way to validly make a declaration. At the time, we recognised that the restrictions of the COVID pandemic were making it difficult to execute documents, so the coalition introduced temporary measures allowing Australians to sign declarations electronically and have them witnessed via an audiovisual link. This bill will make that change permanent. It will no doubt be a relief to the very many Australians who have had to look for someone to witness a declaration. The bill will also introduce changes that will allow for digital verification of statutory declarations through an approved online platform—for example, myGov. We support increasing the ways that allow Australians to properly execute statutory declarations. This is because statutory declarations are often used when dealing with government departments and agencies. We want to make it easier for Australians to engage with government agencies. Allowing digitally verified execution will help streamline the process for Australians who need to engage with those government agencies.</para>
<para>These changes build on the reforms to the Corporations Act that were introduced by the former coalition government as part of our deregulation agenda. These changes allowed corporate entities to use technology where appropriate to streamline their own processes and improve the ways in which they dealt with government. For example, the coalition introduced reforms to the Corporations Act to allow companies and registered schemes to hold virtual meetings, distribute meeting related materials and validly execute documents. These changes allowed businesses to do things now considered routine, like choosing whether to hold meetings physically, as a hybrid or, if expressly permitted by the entity's constitution, virtually, provided that members as a whole are given reasonable opportunity to participate in the meeting. The coalition's changes allowed companies and registered schemes to give members the flexibility to receive documents in hard or soft copy and created flexibility in the ways that documents could be validly executed. This bill builds on those changes.</para>
<para>Businesses and Australians deal with a lot of paperwork and, where possible, we should make it possible for Australians who want to execute their documents digitally to do so and for that to be a working reality. We recognise that every year Australians make something in the order of 3.8 million statutory declarations, equating to thousands upon thousands of hours. In 2021, the coalition commissioned economic analysis through the Deregulation Taskforce which found that digital execution could result in time and cost savings of over $156 million per annum across the economy. It is good to see these findings adopted in the government's explanatory memorandum. These costs and time used are important because we know that Australians and businesses are increasingly time poor.</para>
<para>Importantly, the changes being proposed do not remove the ability for paper execution. This is an important point because we also recognise that many Australians still place a premium on a traditional wet-ink signature. However, we also know that digital signatures can and do allow for more flexibility, especially in remote and rural areas of our country. Under the bill, a person could choose to digitally verify their statutory declaration through an improved online platform via their digital identity. In practice, once this bill commences, the government would be empowered to prescribe myGov as an improved online platform and myGovID as an approved identity provider. The technology pool and regulatory foundations of digital verification were all put in place by the previous coalition government. Again, this builds on the work the coalition pioneered.</para>
<para>As I mentioned earlier, in 2021 the coalition commissioned economic analysis which found that digital execution could lead to savings of in excess of $156 million per annum across the Australian economy. More recent work carried out by the myGov user audit found that the old way of using a wet-ink signature and physical witnessing was costing small and medium businesses and consumers over $400 million in direct costs and time each year.</para>
<para>The explanatory materials released by the government make clear that regulations will set out a requirement for a digital identity provider to be accredited under the Trusted Digital Identity Framework. Both myGovID and the Trusted Digital Identity Framework are coalition reforms which we funded, designed and delivered during our period in office, and we're pleased to see that they continue to deliver practical and economic benefits to all Australians irrespective of where they may live. We commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I'd like to thank Senator Smith for his contribution to the debate on the Statutory Declarations Amendment Bill 2023. Australians spend an estimated nine million hours executing an estimated 3.8 million statutory declarations each and every year. Historically, these documents have been strictly paper based, requiring ink signatures and in-person witnessing for valid execution—not anymore.</para>
<para>The bill will provide Australians with options to execute statutory declarations in one of three ways: through traditional paper based execution, using ink signatures and in-person witnessing; electronically, by allowing electronic signatures and witnessing via an audiovisual communication link; and digitally verified, through the use of a prescribed online platform that verifies the identity of the declarant through a prescribed digital identity service provider. The three methods of execution will be equally robust and result in an equally valid and legally effective Commonwealth statutory declaration. The bill also contains a range of safeguard provisions aimed at ensuring transparency and accountability on the digital services being used to execute statutory declarations online.</para>
<para>This bill is a productivity win for individuals, for businesses and for government service delivery. It is estimated there will be over $156 million per annum in time and cost savings across the economy as a result of these reforms. In addition to the cost savings expected from the reform through providing more accessible ways of making statutory declarations, the bill will benefit those who face barriers to engaging with paper based processes, such as those in rural, remote or regional parts of Australia. This bill will respond to how Australians want and expect to engage and communicate digitally with government by providing options to make Commonwealth statutory declarations facilitated by technology. This bill will provide the framework for standalone digital statutory declaration execution that will enable the government to leverage established Australian government digital infrastructure. This will allow Australians to safely and securely make a statutory declaration end to end online. In doing so, this bill responds to the expectations of Australians when engaging with government service delivery. This bill is an important milestone in driving the digitalisation of government services. It will deliver a world-class, simple and secure public service for all Australians. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>36</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Amendment (Using New Technologies to Fight Climate Change) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7052" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Amendment (Using New Technologies to Fight Climate Change) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>36</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I simply want to note where we are in the debate. We're now on day 4 of debate, and we've had a number of opportunities to consider detailed questions about the operation of the bill during the Committee of the Whole. I simply want to indicate to the Senate that the government is aware that a number of amendments have been circulated in the chamber. We're keen for the committee to have the opportunity to consider those amendments, and we'd welcome it if those senators who have circulated amendments were ready to formally move them so that the committee may consider them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—On that note, I move Australian Greens amendments (1) to (4) on sheet 2142 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 4 (before line 4), before item 1, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1A Subsection 4(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">applicable risk framework and guidelines</inline> means the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the <inline font-style="italic">Risk assessment and management framework for CO2 sequestration in sub-seabed geological structures</inline>, in Annex 3 to Resolution LC/SG-CO2 1/7 adopted on 3 November 2006 by the Contracting Parties to the Protocol;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the <inline font-style="italic">Specific guidelines for the assessment of carbon dioxide for disposal into sub-seabed geological formations</inline>, in Annex 8 to Resolution LC 34/15 adopted on 2 November 2012 by the Contracting Parties to the Protocol.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: These documents could in 2023 be viewed on the International Maritime Organization's website (https:// www.imo.org/en/).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 3, page 5 (after line 15), after paragraph 19(7B)(d), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(da) that there is an agreement or arrangement in force:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) between the Commonwealth and each entity that is proposing to export the controlled material; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) under which each of those entities agrees to comply with the applicable risk framework and guidelines; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(db) that the other country to which the export relates has equal or better standards of environmental management, regulation and enforcement as compared to Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 16), after item 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3A After section 21</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22 Conditions imposed by this section in respect of permits for the export of controlled material</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section applies for each permit for the export of controlled material from Australia to another country for dumping.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A condition imposed in respect of the permit is that the holder of the permit must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) monitor whether the export of controlled material for dumping, or any act or omission relating to the export, is likely to cause or result in any condition or damage of the kind set out in paragraph 16(1)(a), (b) or (c); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) ensure that such a condition or such damage does not arise; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) repair or remedy any such condition, or mitigate any such damage, as does arise.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A condition imposed in respect of the permit is that the holder of the permit must, at all times after the permit has been granted, maintain financial assurance sufficient to give the holder the capacity to meet costs, expenses and liabilities arising in connection with, or as a result of complying (or failing to comply) with:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the condition imposed by subsection (2); or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any other requirement under this Act or a legislative instrument under this Act, in relation to the export.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Without limiting subsection (3), the forms of financial assurance that may be maintained include one or more of the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) insurance;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) a bond;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the deposit of an amount as security with a financial institution;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) an indemnity or other surety;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) a letter of credit from a financial institution;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) a mortgage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) This section does not limit the conditions that may be imposed on the permit by the Minister under section 21. However, sections 21, 23 and 25 do not apply to a condition imposed by this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Failure to comply with a condition imposed by this section, or by the Minister under section 21, is an offence (see section 36).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The conditions imposed under this section in respect of the permit continue to apply in relation to the holder of the permit if the permit ceases to be in force.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 4, page 5 (after line 28), at the end of the item, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Section 22 of the <inline font-style="italic">Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Act 1981</inline>, as inserted by this Part, applies in relation to permits granted on or after the commencement of this item.</para></quote>
<para>It's interesting that over the few days that we have been debating this bill—while, yes, it is our fourth day now—government business time has been fairly restricted. It's not as if we've had a great length of time where we've been able to get into the detail. But, while these four days of debate have occurred, we've had some really important reports, both national and global, drop in relation to the content of the Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Amendment (Using New Technologies to Fight Climate Change) Bill 2023. Yesterday I talked about the <inline font-style="italic">Code blue: our oceans in crisis</inline> report released by the Climate Council, which warned of the impending risks and catastrophe for our oceans if we don't really act on emissions.</para>
<para>Then last night we had the <inline font-style="italic">Production gap report 2023</inline> dropped by the United Nations Environment Programme and other partners, and I do ask senators to read this report. The first page goes into all the significant contributions from around the world as to how we can actually meet our 1.5 per cent climate targets. While they say that the Glasgow get-together was very encouraging in terms of the level of global commitment, what this 2023 gap report has shown is that the exact opposite has happened to the pledges made—especially by the so-called 'petrostates', like Australia. In fact, we've seen a ramping-up of fossil fuel production and plans for new projects. The <inline font-style="italic">Guardian</inline>, internationally, had an article on this last night. It talked about the insanity we're facing currently, where countries commit to do one thing but are in fact doing the exact opposite and where we have fossil fuel companies running rampant, with no government holding them to account.</para>
<para>Interestingly, if you get into the detail of this report, there are significant sections on carbon capture and storage. That includes carbon capture and storage in our oceans. Perhaps I, like Senator McAllister, could just do a very quick summary of the last four days. The Australian Greens have laboured the point that this bill is clearly designed to help facilitate the Barossa Gas Project and, potentially, other new fossil fuel developments in. In the case of the Barossa project, it's arguably the dirtiest fossil fuel project in our nation's history in terms of its carbon footprint.</para>
<para>I'll bring to senators' attention references, for example, on page 8 of this significant international report. They talk a little about the pledges by countries to explore carbon capture and storage, which is what we're doing in this bill, and to provide a regulatory framework to allow that to happen. But they say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">However, there are large uncertainties in the technical, economic, and institutional feasibility of developing and deploying novel CDR and fossil-CCS technologies at the extensive scale envisioned in these scenarios. Around 80% of pilot CCS projects over the last 30 years have failed, with annual capacity from operational projects resulting in dedicated CO2 storage currently amounting to less than 0.01 GtCO2/yr …</para></quote>
<para>And they provide details of that on the following page. They continue:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There are also widespread concerns around the potential negative impacts arising from extensive land-use for conventional or novel CDR, which could affect biodiversity, food security, and the rights of Indigenous peoples and traditional land users.</para></quote>
<para>Another reference comes from page 13, for those senators who would like to read this very important report:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, carbon capture and storage (CCS) technologies — which can be coupled to fossil fuel combustion to reduce CO2 emissions, or coupled to bioenergy or direct air capture to remove CO2 from the atmosphere — could play a role in addressing residual emissions for hard-to-transition sectors.</para></quote>
<para>This is a point that Senator Pocock made a couple of days ago—the hard-to-transition sectors. Developing new fossil fuel projects is not a hard-to-transition sector. They continue:</para>
<quote><para class="block">However, they are not a free pass to carry on with business as usual. Even if all CCS facilities planned and under development worldwide become operational, only around 0.25 GtCO2 would be captured in 2030 (IEA, 2023a), less than 1% of 2022 global CO2 emissions (Liu et cetera al., 2023). The track record for CCS deployment has been poor to date, with around 80% of pilot projects ending in failure over the past 30 years (Wang et al., 2021). Counting on these largely unproven and relatively costly technologies being rolled out at scale is thus a potentially risky and dangerous strategy.</para></quote>
<para>But that's what we're doing here today. That's what the Australian Senate and the Australian parliament is doing: we're facilitating a piece of legislation which is facilitating the development of new fossil fuel projects. We have very clear evidence of that from the climate minister, Mr Bowen, in his public statements.</para>
<para>Even more detail is provided on page 28, in section 2.4, which is entirely on carbon capture and storage. It says,</para>
<quote><para class="block">As described in the previous section, under the median 1.5°C-consistent pathway, around 2.1 GtCO2/yr of fossil fuel-combustion emissions are captured and stored by 2050.</para></quote>
<para>That's the best-case scenario.</para>
<quote><para class="block">However, the track record for CCS deployment has been very poor to date, with around 80% of pilot projects over the last 30 years ending in failure (Wang et al., 2021). The annual capacity from operational CCS projects that result in dedicated CO2 storage currently sum up to less than 0.01 GtCO2/yr (IEA, 2023a). There is concern that a range of institutional, technical, and financial barriers will constrain CCS deployment (Grant et al., 2022; Lane et cetera al., 2021), and rates of CCS deployment continue to fall below expectations and remain far below those modelled …</para></quote>
<para>In the existing projects around the world—and in the ocean there are only a couple of them, and they were in Norway. There are no other undersea commercial CCS projects. We have talked about their problems in recent days. They are not problem free. They have failed in many areas. Of course, we've talk about Gorgon. But here it is in the United Nations report today.</para>
<para>I ask senators to read it and understand that we are being asked today to back in legislation to essentially enact the London protocol for Australia. We know that the timing of this legislation and the intent is to develop new fossil fuel projects. The government certainly won't rule that out, and yesterday they wouldn't rule out providing subsidies for the development of these technologies which the UN is warning us about in this report.</para>
<para>It goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Many of the scenarios modelling higher gas levels in the long-term … that do not impose sufficient constraints on CO2 storage potential and injection rates (Achakulwisut et al., 2023). If fossil-CCS fails to scale to the levels envisaged by these scenarios, reductions in fossil fuel production and use need to be even faster.</para></quote>
<para>Remember that the report opens by saying that, regardless of the commitments made at Glasgow, including by countries such as Australia, the exact opposite is happening around the world. It's almost like the fossil fuel industry is fighting a rearguard action, knowing that its time is limited, and they are literally going hell for leather to lock in as many projects as possible before this climate emergency that we are seeing unfold around us finally creates penny-drop moments for governments, decision-makers and, of course, citizens around the world.</para>
<para>I have more detail on the Greens' amendments to go into shortly, but I understand Senator Pocock may wish to move his amendments in the spirit, perhaps, of what you have asked us to do, Minister. In particular, I would like to step through a bit more information about those Greens' amendments and why we think they're important.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock can contribute to this debate, but we've already got an amendment or two out in front of us, so that's the one we'll deal with at the moment.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Whish-Wilson, for moving your amendment. We appreciate your willingness to allow the chamber to consider these issues. I will be brief. The government is not intending to support the amendments which have been moved by the Greens on sheet 2142. I am happy to step through the basis for this.</para>
<para>In relation to amendment (1), we don't oppose the principle of the amendments that are moved today, but we consider that they are not necessary. Amendment (1) would have the effect of requiring the London protocol's risk assessment and management framework and the 2012 specific guidelines for assessment to be considered in the granting of a sea dumping permit. This duplicates requirements that are already established by the act. Section 19 of the act already requires the minister to have regard to international protocols, including the London protocol requirements. That includes the guidance documents that are referenced in the amendment that's before us at the moment.</para>
<para>So our first point would be that it's redundant and not required. There is also a risk of unintended consequences, because, if the London protocol publishes further guidance and updates existing guidance, the bill before us, the way it is constructed at the moment, would allow those updates to be incorporated into the government's policy approach.</para>
<para>In relation to amendment (2), again we don't oppose the principle of the amendment. The amendment would have the effect of providing a requirement for an agreement between the Commonwealth and each entity proposing to export the controlled material and a series of other matters. Again, this amendment duplicates requirements that are already established by the act. Section 19 of the act requires that the London protocol requirements, including the requirement for bilateral agreement or arrangement, need to be considered before a permit may be granted.</para>
<para>Amendment (3) has the effect of specifying the content of some permit conditions regarding monitoring, repair and mitigation measures should there be an environmental impact, establishing a financial assurance requirement on permits. Again, can I indicate that we of course understand the importance of ensuring that permits are issued with robust conditions to support ongoing monitoring, management and mitigation of any environmental risks and potential impacts. But these requirements, such as monitoring and the ability to mitigate potential damage, are already part of the sea dumping act and are standard conditions on any sea dumping permit.</para>
<para>To get the long-term management right, we will need to ensure that there is alignment across the various regulatory regimes governing these activities. Officials are working through this, and the government would support organising briefings for interested senators on this process. Existing requirements for offshore CCS projects are captured by the Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Act 1981, the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Act 2006 and the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999. The sea dumping act permits include a robust monitoring and compliance regime and long-term monitoring after sequestration activity has ceased. It's on that basis that we consider that it's not necessary to further amend the bill to secure this.</para>
<para>Finally, amendment (4) has the effect of advising that the proposed section 22 would apply to relevant permits granted on or after commencement. We oppose this, again, because it's not required. The provisions of the amendment act will apply regardless.</para>
<para>I thank Senator Whish-Wilson again for moving these amendments, but the government will not be supporting them.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's disappointing, Minister. Obviously, you want us to support taking the first step today towards facilitating new fossil fuel developments, which of course the Greens totally oppose in every strand of our DNA. The report from the UN that I've just highlighted is an example of the, at best, extreme cognitive dissonance of countries around the world, like Australia, that continue to ramp up fossil fuel production. At worst, it's a symptom of a completely broken machine where politics as usual has failed us. Carbon capture and storage is a unicorn technology that has been touted for decades as a potential solution to allow fossil fuel production and development to continue. In 2023, we're still talking about it without any guarantees, including at least supporting these basic amendments that the Greens have moved.</para>
<para>I will put in context our very strong views as a political party and explain why we are in the Senate talking to this legislation and why we have spent four days working with Senator Pocock and other senators to scrutinise this legislation. Marine heatwaves have increased by 50 per cent over the past decade, and they now last longer and are getting more severe. That was outlined in the <inline font-style="italic">Code blue</inline> report yesterday. The temperature of the waters around Australia is predicted to warm by one to two degrees Celsius by the 2030s and two to three degrees Celsius by the 2070s, with the greatest warming happening off south-east Australia and in the Tasman Sea.</para>
<para>Temporary Chair Bilyk, that's happening in our home state of Tasmania, which is already dealing with record marine heatwaves and the damage they're doing to commercial fisheries, to rec fishing values and to coastal communities, not to mention our precious marine life and biodiversity. More than 500 common species of fish, seaweed, coral and invertebrates that live on reefs around Australia have declined in the past decade. The study, which is led by Professor Graham Edgar who was scientist of the year in Tasmania only two years ago, was published last year. It mentioned 1,057 species and found 57 per cent of them had declined in their population numbers, and almost 300 were declining at a rate that could qualify them as a threatened species. Modelling predicts that some stocks in the southern and eastern scalefish and shark fisheries may decline by 20 per cent or more by 2040 due to climate impacts.</para>
<para>Rising ocean temperatures have caused six mass bleaching events on the Great Barrier Reef. Contrary to what Senator Hanson said yesterday, which was that mass coral bleaching events have been occurring throughout history, the first ever recorded on the Great Barrier Reef was in 1998. We then had events in 2002, 2016 and 2017—I initiated a Senate inquiry at that time into warming oceans where we explored the impacts these events were having on the Great Barrier Reef—and other events in 2020 and 2022. The most recent event was the first time ever in our history we have seen a mass coral bleaching event in a La Nina year. This year 91 per cent of reefs surveyed on the Great Barrier Reef were affected by coral bleaching. In the space of one human lifetime, 95 per cent of Tasmania's once widespread giant kelp forest have vanished due to climate change. We know that golden kelp, another previously abundant species of kelp habitat for fisheries and marine life, is also in severe decline. There is a current push to get it listed as a threatened habitat, as giant kelp was listed in 2012. We have seen similar things with seagrasses, mangroves in North Queensland and crayweed around New South Wales, which is critical habitat for the rock lobster industry. All this is happening because of changing ocean temperatures and currents linked to climate change.</para>
<para>But still we are in here passing legislation to facilitate new fossil fuel projects, which are throwing fuel on the fire. Over the summer of 2015, 40 million mangroves died of thirst. That was something the Senate looked at, and it was discovered by accident. Hundreds of kilometres of mangroves just died. A habitat that is adapted to be warmest possible waters vanished because of climate change. This vast die-off was the world's largest ever recorded, and it happened in Queensland, spanning more than a thousand kilometres of coastline on Australia's Gulf of Carpentaria. That is just what's happening in Australia; now let's talk about what is going on around the world. We have had 10 records broken this year globally that have been recognised by scientists—undisputable facts. In July 2023 the hottest month on earth ever in human history was recorded. This was the stark finding of the European Commission's Copernicus Climate Change Service, which also found we had an average temperature of 17 degrees Celsius in July. This is the highest level ever recorded in human history for that month. By the way, it has been reported in the media today that 2023 will almost certainly be the hottest year in human history. The second finding was in Greece, where there was a 17-day heatwave in July, and we saw the fires that went with that. According to the Athens Institute of Environmental Research, this was a record heatwave for Greece, where temperatures exceeded 45 degrees and forest fires multiplied, which led to the biggest evacuation operation ever carried out in Greece's history. Thirty thousand people on Rhodes and other islands, like Corfu, were evacuated in August.</para>
<para>These heatwaves are now officially a public health issue in the EU. According to the World Health Organization they caused more than 60,000 deaths in Europe.</para>
<para>The 31-day heatwave in Phoenix USA is another record. Phoenix USA has 1.6 million inhabitants. On oceans, we had a surface temperature record for the Atlantic Ocean. The United Nations Environment Programme said the ocean is the hottest it has ever been in recorded history. The water reached 38 degrees in the Mediterranean and an absolute record of 28.7 degrees in July in Florida. By the way, the corals in the Caribbean are pretty much kaput. Torrential rain in Beijing—more records. Morocco broke the 50-degree barrier for the first time in its history. The town of Lahaina in Hawaii was nearly wiped off the map because of record weather patterns never seen before and wildfire.</para>
<para>In Canada, a record number of mega fires and surface areas burned. Six hundred fires were out of control, and nearly 5,738 blazes burnt nearly 13.7 million hectares, more than one per cent of their country. The freezing point was registered at the record altitude of 5,298 metres in Switzerland, 115 metres higher than in 2022, which is much higher than Europe's highest peak, Mount Blanc. It is another blow for glaciers that have already suffered this year according to the Swiss glacier monitoring network. It was 41.8 degrees Celsius in the middle of winter in Brazil. The northern hemisphere is not the only one being affected, and we are about to feel it here in Australia; indeed, we already are.</para>
<para>There have been so many weather records broken that it is hard to keep track. It is literally happening every day. In Senate estimates, the Bureau of Meteorology confirmed records are falling every day around the world. And here we are again passing special legislation directly quoting the climate minister, whose job, you would imagine, is to act on climate change in line with our commitments at Glasgow and to the Paris agreement. Here we are bringing a special piece of legislation to facilitate carbon-and-capture storage projects to allow the development of new fossil fuel projects. They are not my words as a Greens senator or the words of my party; they are the words of Mr Chris Bowen, which I have read out many times in my contributions of recent days.</para>
<para>Minister, do you acknowledge these records around the world? How is it possible that your government is trying to facilitate new fossil fuel projects?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course, these are questions we have canvassed through the course of this debate and questions we regularly canvas in other forms including here in the chamber and at estimates. As I have indicated many times, science is unequivocal. This is the critical decade, and the world needs to take important steps to reduce emissions so as to keep 1.5 degrees within reach in order to preserve a safe climate for ourselves and for future generations. This is a government that acknowledges the science. We came to government determined to rectify a long period where climate had been dismissed, ignored, downgraded by the previous government. We have legislated our climate targets and increased their ambition, notifying the UN that that is our intention. We are making substantial investments in our industrial capability so we can seize the opportunities that will arise in Australia as a consequence of a decarbonising global economy, combined with our very significant renewable resources. We have recommitted to playing a constructive role in multilateral forums, to working constructively with partners in our region and globally, and we look forward to contributing in substantive and constructive ways at the COP in Dubai.</para>
<para>All of these things are entirely consistent with the bill before us, which seeks to put in place the legislative arrangements that would allow us to ratify amendments that have been made to the London protocol. The government simply seeks to ensure that, should a project that involves the transport and movement of carbon dioxide be put before us, we would be in a position to properly regulate it. It is the first of the steps necessary to create that set of regulatory arrangements. There are many further steps to take, as we've indicated previously, including bilateral arrangements with any other country that sought to engage us in this way; a set of permitting arrangements; and, finally, an assessment of any project should one be brought forward. This is not the only technology that the government imagines will be part of our transition towards 2050. I have made it clear repeatedly in the debate that, nonetheless, we consider that we need to create the pathways for all of the options to make it to 2050—understanding the commercial and technical uncertainties around some of these technologies, including the one that we're discussing today.</para>
<para>I appreciate the willingness of senators to contribute to this debate. I appreciate the Australian Greens' decision to formally move their amendments today. I do consider that I have answered the broad questions about the bill in general and the specific reasons why we don't support the amendments that are before us. With that, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens have moved the amendments on sheet 2142. The minister moved that the question be put, and that is the question I'm putting to the committee now. The question is that the question on the amendments be put.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:06]<br />(The Chair—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's very telling, isn't it? There they all are, sitting over on the other side. We've got the Greens up in the back corner, we've got the opposition sitting there—all cozily lined up together. What should we understand about this? We have a group of people who have spent all week asking for the government to put the question—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, run away. Run away.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>but, when actually provided the opportunity to bring this debate along, to have the Senate express a view about the options—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, there's a point of order. Senator Henderson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's inappropriate for Senator Watt to reflect on senators leaving the chamber. I would ask you to direct him not to do that. Thank you.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: I think there was lots of chatter across the chamber. I appreciate your commentary, Senator Henderson. Senators—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Watt!—please let's refrain from banter across the chamber, which is disorderly. The minister was on her feet.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would ask you to ask Senator Ayres if he would please retract his statement.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ayres</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I cheerfully withdraw, in the spirit of the day.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Ayres. I give the call to the minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Chair. It's pretty clear, though, isn't it, that any pretence the opposition has to being a party of government is quickly heading for the door. We don't reflect on senators heading for the door, but I think we can make some observations about the credibility, can't we? The bill that we're debating now is on its fourth day of debate. The government of course has been willing to provide time for the legitimate concerns of senators to be examined and aired and for amendments to be moved, but the truth is that in their second reading contributions the opposition indicated a desire for this bill to be progressed.</para>
<para>I'm not surprised that parts of the crossbench—the Greens political party and other senators—don't support this, but I am surprised that the opposition don't understand the significance of the bill before us. It is a bill that seeks to establish a predictable, certain approach to regulatory arrangements for certain projects, certain kinds of interventions in the Australian economy. What I don't understand is the why those opposite, who say that they're for a certain regulatory environment and they'd like to see orderly policy making, don't understand that on day 4 of a debate it is time for amendments to be considered and dealt with. It was on that basis that we moved that the question be put. We heard Senator Whish-Wilson's contributions about why he'd moved the Greens amendments. I provided a response about the technical reasons that the amendment before us is not necessary, because it simply replicates features of the bill that are already in place and creates, as a consequence, uncertainties and potentially unintended consequences by replicating aspects of the London protocol in the legislation itself. It is on that basis that we oppose the amendments moved by Senator Whish-Wilson. You know that. You understand that. You should also understand the significance of concluding debate on this one amendment so that we can proceed to the other amendments which, I understand, Senator Pocock would like to move.</para>
<para>Again, I invite the chamber to make progress on this bill. It's a bill that simply seeks to establish a regulatory architecture. It is part of the ordinary business of government, and a party that aspires to being in government ought to support it.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a question for you, Minister. I note that I've previously asked the CSIRO in estimates why phytoplankton isn't counted as part of CO2 offsets.</para>
<para>The reply from the CSIRO was, 'Well, that's not a land based CO2 use.' I'll refer to an article from 16 September 2021 on the ABC. It noted that there was a phytoplankton bloom in the Southern Ocean after the recent bushfires. That makes me think that this whole bill is totally redundant. We're going to set up a whole new regulatory system or environment in order to store carbon dioxide in the ocean, or however you're going to do it, rather than actually use Mother Nature itself.</para>
<para>My question to you is: why don't you use the natural levers in the environment that we already have? This lever is well known; phytoplankton absorb 70 per cent of the world's CO2. A lot of that CO2 is created on land, then blown off to sea above the atmosphere and then sinks into the ocean as it cools overnight. Could you please explain to me the whole point of this when we already have Mother Nature doing this job without any cost, red tape or green tape and so on?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I suppose there are two points to make. I don't think that it's accurate to say that the earth's natural systems are capable of coping with the amount of carbon dioxide that's presently being emitted as a consequence of human activities. I recognise that's a point of disagreement between you and the global scientific community, but that is simply not a matter we can agree on. However, in relation to the specific technology that you point to, which I think relates to changing the balance of nutrients in the ocean so as to increase phytoplankton: the bill before us actually seeks to create a regulatory framework that would enable scientific research into this and other kinds of interventions that seek to harness marine resources.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to respond to some of the points that Senator McAllister made in reflecting on the vote that this chamber took before. It is true to say that the coalition is supportive of this legislation. We're also supportive of the Senate crossbench being able to interrogate all of the issues that they have with this legislation. To that end, that is why, along with Senator Pocock and the Australian Greens, we voted against a gagging of the debate—because there are questions they have, and I'm willing to allow them to continue to ask them until they have the answers that they are satisfied with. That is where we're at.</para>
<para>I'm happy to have discussions around how best to progress this legislation at some point, but good chamber management is a hallmark of good government. Here we are, four days in—as you said yourself, Senator McAllister—and we've not passed a single piece of government legislation. That is the government's fault. If they had done their job properly and worked with the opposition, perhaps we wouldn't be in this situation, but here we are.</para>
<para>Another hallmark of good government is, of course, having a policy agenda lined up properly. The environment portfolio is an absolute shambles. I tell you what, not only are we struggling to pass one of the most straightforward pieces of legislation of all time, which the majority of this chamber supports, but where are the EPBC Act reforms, which were something that we could not delay and that we actually had to get happening straightaway? There wasn't a day to lose, because we needed to stop new extinctions, and this government will save the environment by reforming the laws. Well, colleagues, where are those reforms? They're not here. They're 18 months behind! They had a consultation period on 30 and 31 October. No-one knows what went on, except that it was written about recently and, to no surprise on my part, I suppose, but perhaps to great disappointment in the community, there are a few pages of principles. After 18 months, all this government has managed to muster together in one of their signature pieces of policy from the last election are a few pages of principles to replace over a thousand pages of legislation to protect our natural environment. It's appalling.</para>
<para>The Nature Repair Market Bill 2023 is off in the never-never now because they haven't been able to do their work properly—it's another example of failure in this portfolio. And this bill is stalled in the Senate because the government can't get its act together. Four days in, the only legislation that has passed this place is what was originally government legislation that they refused to bring on to do with the Australian workplace—to protect workers and improve rights. They wouldn't bring it on. The Australian Labor Party, the so-called friend of the worker, wouldn't bring it on. We're still here debating this sea-dumping bill, and Senator David Pocock and Senator Jacqui Lambie brought their bills on for them—and passed them, the only legislation that has passed the parliament this week.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lambie</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank God for the crossbench!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that interjection. On this occasion, thank God for crossbenchers. I do agree with that on this occasion because it's because of them that we got those laws through. The Australian community got something out of the parliament this week not courtesy of the government but because of everyone else. Four days in, we're the only chamber of this parliament sitting, and not a blasted thing has been done to help the Australian public. Where are the cost-of-living measures? There is nothing. It's all on this government and their inability to manage their agenda. It's a shame. We will allow the crossbench to continue to ask their questions till they're satisfied.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I would like to raise a concern with this bill and what it means for our national security. In the lead-up to the last election, national security was something that got a lot of air time, and a lot of that hinged on our relationship with the Pacific island nations. The Prime Minister is currently in the Cook Islands, talking to Pacific island nations' leaders, and we know that one of their calls is for Australia to sign the Port Vila call for a just transition to a fossil-fuel-free Pacific. On the same day that Prime Minister Albanese is meeting Pacific island nations who face an existential threat in the form of climate change, the Labor Party is intent on passing a bill that would allow the expansion of the fossil fuel industry.</para>
<para>I find it appalling and deeply troubling that we hear all the talk about national security, about the way that we treat our Pacific family, and, on the exact same day that Prime Minister Albanese is meeting in the Cook Islands, the Labor government is putting through a bill that does a range of things. One of them is facilitate an expansion of the fossil fuel industry. We'll hear arguments against that—'That's not really what it's about; it's about all these other things'—but you won't vote for amendments that ensure that this isn't used to expand the fossil fuel industry.</para>
<para>I really think that Australia's inability to actually put our actions where our talk is on the issue of climate when it comes to the Pacific is a very real risk, because who's going to trust an Australian government that says to Pacific island neighbours, 'You're our family. We care for you. We're with you. We're working alongside you,' when at the same time we are undermining their ability to live on their Pacific islands?</para>
<para>I would like to read something from Vanuatu's climate change minister, Ralph Regenvanu:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Pacific Islands Forum next week will bring together nations who share what we call the Blue Pacific Continent, stretching from the hundreds of islands and atolls of Micronesia in the North all the way down to the Alpine like conditions of New Zealand's Southern tip.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together, we are custodians of almost a fifth of the earth's surface, and at the great crossroads of strategic interest for many nations. We are also some of the most vulnerable countries to the impacts of climate change and have contributed the least.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One issue looms large and demands our attention. Our neighbour Australia is bidding to preside over Cop31, a crucial meeting of the world's climate negotiators in 2026 in partnership with the Pacific.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of the United Nations group known as Western Europe and Others, it will be primarily European countries that decide whether that bid goes ahead. I urge that these countries consider not just Australia's words, but its actions as it plans some of the largest fossil gas expansion in the world in the run up to 2050.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Regenvanu continues:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This year's 'global stock take' of decades of climate action will tell us what none of us wants to hear. That we have not, collectively, brought emissions under control—indeed the world's CO2 emissions are set to rise by about 1% to new record in 2023—when they need to fall very rapidly. It is beyond time that we did the one thing that we've not yet tried—keeping fossil fuels in the ground.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia has claimed it is "back in the tent" in international climate circles. Indeed, Pacific nations welcomed Australia's renewed commitment to climate action after the 2022 election, where the government won on a platform of greater environmental responsibility. Yet after a year, Australia's commitment to reduce emissions still falls short of what they promised by signing the Paris Agreement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pacific Island nations, including my home country, Vanuatu, sit on the front lines of the climate crisis. We face rising sea levels that threaten to swallow our homes and increasingly frequent and increasingly destructive weather events.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Our ability to adapt will be made impossible by Australia's hypocritical gas expansion plans. Vanuatu has been at the forefront of climate action—we led a coalition of countries to secure an advisory opinion on climate change from the United Nations International Court of Justice, and we are working towards a fossil fuel free Pacific.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At great cost, we are decarbonising our shipping register. We understand that climate action may require short term adjustments and we are willing to do that. I'm not confident that all countries share our resolve.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Pacific Island nations are in desperate need of genuine allies who will stand with us in our fight for survival. Australia, with its financial resources and international influence, should be such an ally. However, for Australia to be seen as a credible leader of climate talks, it must first resolve glaring inconsistencies in its climate policies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The fact is that Australia remains the world’s third-largest fossil fuel exporter, with 116 new coal and gas projects in the pipeline, some of which are slated to operate until at least 2070. This persistence in fossil fuel expansion is fundamentally at odds with the spirit of the Paris Agreement and poses a direct threat to the climate goals set by the international community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's bid to lead Cop31 is a momentous opportunity for the nation to prove its dedication to addressing the global climate crisis. The world is watching, and the Pacific Island nations are looking for unwavering support, not empty promises.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And part of that must be conditionality attached to approving its Cop bid. We cannot afford another climate summit brought to you by the fossil fuel industry. The time has come to demonstrate that commitment to climate action is more than just rhetoric. It's time to do the right thing, securing a climate safe future for all our countries.</para></quote>
<para>It is pretty devastating to read that statement from a Pacific Island leader, given the rhetoric we hear from the Albanese government about the Pacific family, about climate action and leadership. It is clearly ringing very hollow in the Pacific.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Did the other mob do a good job? Did they?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that interjection from Senator Ciccone about the other mob doing a good job. It's the lowest of bars. Why are the Albanese government holding themselves up to the coalition's bar when it comes to climate action? Stop talking up such a big game and not delivering. To Mr Regenvanu I say: Australians want to support the Pacific. The majority of Australians want bolder climate action, yet what we have standing in the way is this kind of nonsense from major parties, this level of vested interest. Minister, how can we possibly be asking Pacific Island neighbours to trust us when we won't sign the Port Vila call for a just transition to a fossil fuel-free Pacific and when, in Mr Regenvanu's words, our actions don't line up with our rhetoric?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Was that a question to the minister, Senator Pocock?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was clear there was a question at the end there.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Sorry, it is now 1.30. The committee will now report to the Senate.</para>
<para>Progress reported.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>45</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tasmania: Salmon Industry</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tasmanians could be forgiven for having a moment of deja vu, given what they're seeing from the Labor government at this point in time with the threats that are being made to the salmon industry in our state, particularly the salmon industry in Macquarie Harbour. We've seen it before. We saw it with Mark Latham when Dick Adams, the then member for Lyons, had the courage to say: 'New policy or new leader.' We saw it with Mr Tony Burke, the then minister for the environment, when he said to a Legislative Council committee in Tasmania, 'I don't know whether I'm going to declare this area a World Heritage site,' and walked out to a press conference and did just that. We're now seeing it with the indecision of the Minister for the Environment and Water in relation to Macquarie Harbour.</para>
<para>We were told yesterday by Minister Watt that the government has a process to go through, and that's correct. But what the minister can do—and what the minister should do—is reaffirm the previous decision with respect to salmon farming in Macquarie Harbour and let the industry get on with saving the Maugean skate and continue to run itself sustainably in Tasmania, allowing that industry to continue to make a contribution to the local economy. It is not acceptable that threats are made effectively pre-empting the decision that the minister has to make, which is not within the provisions of the EPBC Act—that we might pause the industry. The pre-emption is in fact outrageous. The minister should get on with the job and stop doing what Mayor Shane Pitt said she is doing:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Minister Plibersek is playing political games with the lives of people in our community, and it's a bloody disgrace.</para></quote>
<para>She should get on and make the right decision.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>New England: Health Care</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 2022, during the election campaign, I did a press conference with Labor's candidate for New England, Laura Hughes, and committed a new Labor government to an urgent care clinic for Tamworth. On 30 October this year, that very urgent care clinic is open for business. This is the difference the Albanese government is making in regional Australia—real commitments, real solutions, doing what we said we would do and making a real difference for the lives of regional Australians. The Tamworth Medicare Urgent Care Clinic is open for extended hours, seven days a week, and offers walk-in care that is bulk-billed every single time. That means that, if you have an urgent medical issue, you can confidently go there with your family member and get them the care that they need, fully bulk-filled. The urgent care clinic will take pressure off of Tamworth Hospital, where more than 60 per cent of presentations are for non-urgent or semi-urgent care. That is good for patients, good for families, good for health outcomes and good in terms of managing the costs of living. The Albanese government has committed to improving access to health care right across the country—in regional Australia, in particular. The Tamworth urgent care clinic joins more than seven clinics that are already operational across New South Wales, with a further six to be opened before the end of this year.</para>
<para>I want to congratulate Laura Hughes, not just for her campaign but for her determination to pursue this initiative during the campaign, and wish the people of Tamworth well for what is an important improvement to health care for the region.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gladstone Hospital</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week I hosted a public forum in my home of Gladstone to hear from the community about their experiences with the local health system. I heard one thing very clearly: the people of Gladstone have had enough of being treated like second-class citizens. The Gladstone region generates billions for the Queensland and Australian economies, but its people have been exploited for decades by governments and corporations trying to squeeze every last drop of profit from the coal and gas industries and the people who work in them.</para>
<para>Gladstone Hospital has been persistently underresourced by the Queensland government for years. With no ICU—which was shut down more than two decades ago—the hospital is unable to provide comprehensive or long-term care. Patients are frequently forced to travel to Rockhampton for something as simple as a fracture. More complex treatments inevitably involve travel to Brisbane. The patient travel subsidy, which is meant to offset the cost of staying away from home for medical treatment, is woefully inadequate. Many people, unable to afford the cost and inconvenience of travelling large distances for procedures, are forgoing care. With no ICU, Gladstone, a major industrial centre, has no safety net for a large-scale industrial accident.</para>
<para>With a year until the next Queensland election, Labor and the LNP will be hearing loud and clear that Gladstone and its community will no longer be treated with contempt by governments. The people of Gladstone deserve a better deal, and the Greens are going to help them get it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Israel</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Some words made by others are so profound they deserve repeating in this place, and so it is with the courageous statement by Australian Holocaust survivors, which I'll quote from:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We, the undersigned Holocaust survivors are the last witnesses to the unspeakable horrors of the Nazi regime. We are witnesses to the antisemitic propaganda that turned our friends, neighbours and the general public against us in Europe. We remember the six million Jewish lives lost because of this hatred.…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We write this letter now because today marks 85 years since Kristallnacht (The Night of Broken Glass). On 9 November 1938, the Nazi regime murdered Jews and attacked Jewish life, wreaking terror and burning synagogues.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rather than condemn these atrocities, the world stood by and watched.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Never have we, the survivors of the Holocaust felt the need to make a collective statement such as this until now. Never did we think that we would witness a re-enactment of the senseless and virulent hatred of Jews that we faced in Europe. The actions of Hamas are so familiar, so barbaric, yet instead of condemning this, the response across the globe is a shameful spike in antisemitism.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We cannot allow history to repeat itself.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Antisemitism is one of the world's oldest and most contagious viruses. We ask all Australians to denounce the antisemitism and hatred that we see today in our beautiful country and across the globe.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We ask you to stand with us.</para></quote>
<para>To you, the Australian Holocaust survivors, I say, and I trust this Senate says, we do stand with you. We thank you for your grace and your courage in making this remarkable, poignant, impactful statement.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations: DP World</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>DP World, the Dubai state owned port operator, has announced it will dramatically increase the fees and charges for Australian companies and owner-drivers at ports across Australia. DP World are significantly raising their fees by a whopping 52.52 per cent in Melbourne, 38.8 per cent in Sydney and 37.5 per cent in Brisbane. The company is also significantly raising import fees and various other charges on owner-drivers and low-margin transport companies by double-digit percentages. At the same time, DP World is refusing to come to the table and negotiate in good faith with its workforce and the Maritime Union on a new enterprise agreement.</para>
<para>DP World wants to force workers onto a new rostering system that would see workers receive an immediate real pay cut of up to 32 per cent, have to work additional weekend and night hours, and have a dramatic reduction in job security. As MUA national assistant secretary Adrian Evans said: 'The company refused to move on anything. They cancelled meetings and they issued inflammatory statements to members.' Now, this is even more staggering given DP World announced a staggering $5 billion profit last year.</para>
<para>We've got a foreign-state owned company extracting huge profits from vital national infrastructure, while ripping off their workforce and gouging Australian companies. Those opposite are always happy to cheer on shonky employers like DP World when they try and drive wages and conditions down. After all, low wages are a deliberate feature of Liberal-National coalition governments. I know which side I'm on. Be on the side of owner-drivers and hardworking maritime workers, and make sure that DP World does the right thing.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations Legislation</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today Senator Pocock and I succeeded in splitting out four parts of the government's closing the loopholes bill. The crossbench got this bill on the day it was tabled in the lower house. This is a massive bill, and it's a wonder they managed to get it to us without the use of a forklift. When a bill this big comes to the Senate, it's always going to take time to go through it and to put it under the microscope, and you can usually find unintended consequences. Rushing through laws that will impact the whole country—especially when our economy is tanking—is not just irresponsible; it is plain dangerous.</para>
<para>Working closely with Senator Pocock's office, we sat down and worked through it. I thank Senator Pocock, his team and my team for the work they have put into it. It became quite clear to us that there were four elements of this bill that weren't controversial, that would have broad support and, most importantly, that would help some of the most vulnerable Australians. Who could argue with not making federal first responders prove they had PTSD, with protecting victims of domestic violence from discrimination, with making sure workers get their redundancy payments and with bringing silica into line with asbestos in relation to worker safety? These four measures are no-brainers. But if we hadn't managed to split the bill, Australians affected by these issues wouldn't see the protections pass until July 2024, because apparently it's so important to get the bill through.</para>
<para>The government has suggested today that the senators who voted to split the bill don't care about wage theft or people being paid properly for the job that they do or people being killed at work. That's rubbish, and I find it offensive, and I know that most people would know that. Of course we care about these issues, but rushing through a bill this size without careful consideration of the negative impacts it may have is not smart. That is why we will take the time needed to get the job done.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fordham, Mr Steven</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Heroes come in many shapes and sizes, but not many of us here would envisage a hero who stands about five foot six, looks like Ned Kelly and always wears hi-vis as he wanders around the Hunter and even, occasionally, along the hallways down here. But Steve Fordham of Muswellbrook is that kind of person. Steve, a proud Kamilaroi man, is a doer. He doesn't engage in empty virtue signalling. He gets out and takes direct action. This week, Steve was announced as a nominee for an Australian of the Year Local Hero Award. His work through his local charity Blackroo is nothing short of inspiring.</para>
<para>Steve is actively addressing the issues of Indigenous incarceration and recidivism by providing employment opportunities for Indigenous inmates whilst they are in prison. Inmates go out and work across various sites across the Hunter Valley during the final year of incarceration, which creates a sense of belonging, a chance at a brighter future and a connection to the community when they rejoin society. Steve's commitment goes further than simply releasing individuals at the gate and hoping for the best. He's dedicated to creating lasting and positive change and to transforming lives, changing people who've made mistakes into people with meaningful reasons to live. Steve often shares a story of how one day he spotted a program graduate wearing hi-vis out in town. Curious, Steve stopped and asked him why he was wearing the uniform outside of hours. The response was simple: 'When I wear this, no-one follows me around, because I look like I belong, like everybody else. They just smile and say hello.' That is the difference a job can make.</para>
<para>In addition to this program, Steve contributes regularly and significantly to all aspects of the community with events like his annual Christmas toy appeal, which last year saw over a thousand presents and 360 food hampers given to families in need across the Hunter. Steve, congratulations to you. I wish you well and look forward to you being announced as another Australian Local Hero.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Territory: Bushfires</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to reach out to our bushfire services across Australia, but especially in the Northern Territory at the moment, where we've had significant fires burning for quite a long time over the last month or two around the Barkly region, from Tennant Creek across to Mount Isa and now around Alice Springs.</para>
<para>This is a reminder to those with health conditions to be very careful. I know that, in Alice Springs itself, there have been warnings around health conditions because of the thick smoke and the concerns for those who are experiencing diabetes or who have any asthma conditions. Certainly, this month also is Lung Cancer Awareness Month, so we are very mindful on every level that patients who experience those symptoms must be very careful—and not just in the Northern Territory, obviously. We're seeing it in some other places. I've certainly seen what's going on down in Melbourne with pollen. In terms of that awareness, I do want to reach out to constituents.</para>
<para>I also want to say thank you to our bushfire services in the Northern Territory and South Australia, as well as Victoria and others who have come to assist us there. The other thing I'd like to add is that in the Top End of Northern Australia, it's wet season time. It's cyclone clean-up time. Make sure that you're checking your yards. Make sure you're getting rid of all those things that can fly and become hazards in wild winds and, certainly, in the tropical cyclones that we have. We've had severe flooding in the last wet season, so this is just a reminder to all people across Northern Australia—but, in particular, in the Northern Territory—to be careful. We're at that time of year again.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>McBride, Mr David William</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As bombs rain down on Gaza and the world watches yet another brutal, unjust war, could there be a better time for us to reflect upon the importance of whistleblowers? Could there be a worse time for this government to be dragging David McBride in front of a court just down the road from here for telling the truth about another war? Why is David McBride being taken to court by the Labor government? It's because he told the truth. He let the public know what was being done in their name by Australian soldiers who broke the rules of war and the laws of conflict and committed war crimes while on deployment in Afghanistan. Last sitting period, I met with representatives of the Afghanistan Human Rights and Democracy Organisation, and they were clear that, if the government wants to start mending its international and moral standing and respond to the damage that has been done to families and communities in Afghanistan, then they must end the prosecution of David McBride and start taking action.</para>
<para>As we speak, David McBride is the only person currently facing a serious trial for the war crimes committed in Afghanistan. Let that sink in. Who's being prosecuted? Who's facing jail? It's not those who committed the crimes but the person who blew the whistle. The Albanese government trotted into this place on their high horse, making big promises about transparency, fairness and changing the ways of government. Look where we are now. They're hounding the whistleblowers who make a brave and moral decision to reveal war crimes and then sitting on their hands when it comes to perpetrators. It's time to value truth. It's time to value decency. We must stop the prosecution of McBride now.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change Legislation</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, I want to give a special shout-out to a group of students in Queensland who are doing a three-week 'study-in' outside the Queensland parliament. They are doing this because they are calling on the government to get behind my Climate Change Amendment (Duty of Care and Intergenerational Climate Equity) Bill 2023. Today, we showed you can get private senators' bills through this place with good outcomes for people. My duty of care bill seeks to legislate a requirement for government to take into account future generations to protect their future—something parents and loved ones do every day. It's something I think government should also have a statutory obligation to consider. Seventeen-year-old Ben says: 'I'm studying hard for my exams in order to prepare for my future, but I have a life on a warming planet ahead of me, and no amount of time with my head buried in books can prepare me for what the real and powerful consequences of a climate crisis will be. We are doing our duty, studying hard for our futures. It's time for the government to do their duty and protect young people from the impacts of climate change by supporting the duty of care bill.'</para>
<para>Next Tuesday, we will have a group of young people here at Parliament House, meeting with more than 30 parliamentarians and asking them—asking you in this place—to care about their future and to legislate a duty of care so that, when the environment minister and other decision-makers are making decisions, they have to consider the impact that that will have on young people and future generations. We can legislate—and I would argue that we as a parliament must legislate—to look after young Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Bowel Cancer</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Bowel cancer is one of the leading causes of death in Australia, with the disease claiming over 5,300 lives a year. For too long, this disease has been labelled as a killer of older people, when, in fact, each year in Australia, 315 people under the age of 50 die of bowel cancer, with over 1,700 diagnosed with early onset bowel cancer. I've spoken about this with several young women by the names of Stephanie, Tania and Rachel. They know that bowel cancer does not discriminate and that one is never too young to get it. Rachel was only 38 years old when she was diagnosed. Sadly, the incidence in young people of this cancer is rising fast, and it is only becoming more frequently diagnosed.</para>
<para>There are a multitude of issues that early onset bowel cancer sufferers face. Currently individuals face challenges both in identifying early onset bowel cancer and in accessing the required support when suffering from the disease and chemotherapy during the treatment stage. Now more than ever, it is time to recognise and react to a growing issue facing many young Australians. Now is the time to focus on things like prevention, early screening, early detection and normalising the idea that this cancer isn't just a killer of older Australians—that, in reality, it's a destroyer of all Australians, no matter their age.</para>
<para>The coalition is committed to fighting this deadly disease, and we are proud of the $27 billion investment in cancer control initiatives under the former coalition government. But we must do more, which is why we are advocating for people to have better access to regular screening checks and treatments across the country. We need to do more, and we need to do it now—not tomorrow, not next week and not next month. We need to take action now.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Digital Economy</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the many different people who make up our one Queensland community, I draw attention to yesterday's Optus outage. Payment terminals using the Optus network went down, requiring businesses to close or accept cash payments. The Optus failure makes a mockery of our arrogant, lying, profit-gouging banks' campaign to totally remove cash from our society and to remove bank branches. I call on the Treasurer to use his regulatory powers to ensure banks do not remove cash from one more branch, do not close one more branch and do not close one more ATM. Anything less is asking for trouble the next time the internet goes down.</para>
<para>The Optus failure reminds Australia of the insanity of persisting with a single digital identity linked to a digital currency as the only approved payment mechanism. What happens if the government's Identity Verification Services Bill passes and these myriad identification services are replaced with one central government run digital ID, complete with your biometric data? It will be a hacker's paradise, with everything hackers need for identity theft and fraud located in a single data file. All that's missing from the government's digital ID plans is a massive sign saying, 'Hack me!' With digital ID, the government is not protecting us from identity theft; it's making identity theft easier. If digital ID and digital currency are implemented, the next time Optus or Telstra go down, every Australian's life stops. There will be no transport, no telephone, no keeping track of children and no buying anything. The government is creating a pinch point every time the internet goes down—a chokehold that comes at a terrible human and economic cost.</para>
<para>The government's predatory billionaire mates are salivating at the control that digital ID and digital currency will give these parasites. The government and its parasitic billionaire mates aren't good enough to make the technology work. It's going to stuff everything up and screw everyday Australians and small businesses. To a digital prison, One Nation says no.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Work-Life Balance</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to draw senators' attention to a pressing issue that affects the lives of countless workers in Australia: unfair rostering. Australian workers are not adequately protected from inconsiderate and unpredictable rosters. Millions of workers are subject to irregular working hours, last-minute shift changes, being on call without pay and being called upon to work when they are unavailable, just to name a few of the issues.</para>
<para>I've heard countless reports of people being sent home early from their shifts or turning up to work only to be told to go home and being unable to book doctor's appointments because they don't know when they'll be rostered to work.</para>
<para>This issue is not confined to a few isolated cases. It is a systemic problem. It's in so many workplaces, and it continues to grow. It affects all industries, disproportionately impacting women, carers and young people. The consequences are far-reaching, affecting not only workers' mental and physical health but also their work-life balance, family time, care-giving responsibilities and downtime. Unfair rostering has a profound impact on personal finances and the broader economy, hindering access to unemployment benefits, making budgeting a really challenging task and causing people to work less than they would like to.</para>
<para>I was very lucky recently to have an intern in my office from ANU, Miles Jennings, who is with us today and who wrote an excellent report on the problem of unfair rostering. In his research report, Miles paints a concerning picture of the impact that inconsistent and unpredictable hours of work have on Australian workers and their families. It's very useful input to help us map a reform agenda to tackle the power imbalances between employers and employees when it comes to rostering.</para>
<para>Australian workers need roster justice. They need fairer and more equitable working time scheduling. The government says it's interested in closing loopholes. It must address the question of unfair rostering. We need roster justice now.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to share the profound effect that a recent visit to Echuca and along the Murray River and its surrounds had on me. During a small-plane flight over the area, I witnessed firsthand the flood plain that is that landscape. The floods of 2022 and 2023 submerged that area, but it stayed submerged because there was more and more water being pushed down the Murray. The waters remained, with no path to retreat. Yet there are voices calling for more water to be sent down that river. From above, the site is devastated. Hectares of land remain underwater. The beautiful towering red gums are dying or dead. Our cherished fauna, including koalas, platypus and wombats, can't live there. It's underwater. Their sanctuaries are submerged and the banks eroded. This is not to mention the impact on our communities, with many families still displaced.</para>
<para>To solve the environmental issues with the Murray-Darling Basin, we need a solution to effectively address the dichotomy of our river systems. The Darling is parched and the Murray is overwhelmed. Both rivers are suffering from mismanagement, killing the ecosystems and the communities that depend on them. Farmers are doing everything they can to farm sustainably.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, can I please remind people that two-minute statements are still occurring. Just keep the chatter down. Sorry, Senator Van. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The simplistic 'just add water' approach of the Water Amendment (Restoring Our Rivers) Bill 2023 is not the answer. We need to be working hand in hand with people who farm our land and waterways. We need to listen to their solutions, not rely on city based modelling to determine the future of our food crops and farming communities.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations: DP World</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know my time will be cut short, so I will be quick. I want to follow on from the words of my esteemed colleague Senator Tony Sheldon earlier on and talk about DP World. Just like Qantas, DP World Australia made a record profit last year and, just like Qantas, they've decided to put their charges up even further. DP World has announced new portside increases that will amount to $232 per container at their operations in Sydney and Perth. This represents an increase of up to 52 per cent. You'd be a fool to think this doesn't flow on to the cost-of-living argument. While they're whacking the transport operators, somebody's got to pay for it.</para>
<para>But, worse still, while DP World make record amounts of money, they've decided to try and cut workers' pay and conditions. DP World Australia are seeking to reduce annual leave; alter work roster arrangements, some of which will have tax implications for workers; and further outsource work. Make no mistake: none of these changes, if they are implemented, will increase productivity on our wharves. Instead the cuts to workers' pay will go straight to DP World's bottom line. In fact, DP World's operation in Sydney has achieved 98 per cent shipping schedule reliability and a 10 per cent productivity increase across the operation without cutting wages, reducing annual leave or changing rostering commitments. You've got to compare the provocative actions of DP World to other stevedores on the wharf, who have passed on 17 per cent increases. I've got one line for DP World and for that lot over there: MUA, here to stay. MUA, here to stay. Do you like that?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for senators' statements—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Birmingham! We're moving to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTRY</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>MINISTRY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Temporary Arrangements</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—If the Senate would indulge me, I particularly thank Senator Farrell for leading the government most ably in my absence, and also Senator Watt for representing so many portfolios.</para>
<para>I advise of changes to ministerial arrangements: Senator Gallagher, the Minister for the Public Service, Minister for Finance and Minister for Women, will be absent from question time today and tomorrow for personal reasons. In Senator Gallagher's absence, Senator Farrell and I will represent portfolios at question time in accordance with the letter circulated to the President, party leaders and independent senators. I thank the Senate.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Welcome back, Senator Wong, but my question is to Senator Farrell, representing the Treasurer. Minister, having had a further 24 hours to prepare, following the question from Senator McGrath yesterday, can you now put on the Senate record the precise definition of 'mortgage stress'?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Scarr, for your question. The observation I made yesterday, when Senator Birmingham threw the—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With due respect—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, you didn't—you threw it at me! You threw it at me in a—</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Did you read it?</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I read it.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, again, I raise the question: what's the point of you asking me questions when you already have the answer, and you've prepared the answer? The reality of the situation is that lots and lots of Australians are now facing mortgage stress. There's no doubt about it—we're not disputing that fact. We understand that ordinary Australians are facing it, particularly as a result of that decision earlier in the week by the Reserve Bank to increase the mortgage rates by 0.25 per cent. And I see that the banks have already been quick to implement that increase. But we understand the issues that Australians are facing and, as I said to you in just about every single question that I answered yesterday, we are trying to put downward pressure on inflation and the cost of living.</para>
<para>One of the ways, of course, we're doing that is by that budget surplus that— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr, your first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I note that you referred to 'lots and lots' of Australians facing mortgage stress. I wonder if you could be a little more precise? How many Australians are actually facing mortgage stress and how many more Australians will face mortgage stress as a result of the interest rate rise this week?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The truth of the matter is that the Reserve Bank is an independent organisation in this country. It was independent under your government and it's independent under our government. It makes decisions which, obviously, have an impact on the lives of ordinary Australians. There is not one person in the Labor government who wants to see interest rates going up—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I have a point of order on direct relevance. This is quite remarkable; this is the minister representing the Treasurer. Yesterday also he was the minister representing the Treasurer.</para>
<para>He was asked for this data yesterday. He was unable to give the data yesterday, but it's inconceivable that somewhere in his briefing, somewhere in his pack, he doesn't have the specific data Senator Scarr has requested. And I ask you to draw him to the particular question, not a lesson on Reserve Bank independence.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham. I will remind the minister of your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think it helps those Australians who are now finding it difficult to make repayments that you seek to get some political either advantage or satisfaction out of the difficulties that ordinary Australians are now facing. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Despite being asked the same question today as he was asked yesterday, I note the minister can't or won't confirm for the Senate the number of Australian families experiencing mortgage stress under your government. Will the Albanese Labor government take responsibility for its role in skyrocketing mortgage stress and apologise to these Australian families?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Scarr for his second supplementary question. The Albanese government will do what we have been doing since we came to office, which is trying to put downward pressure on inflation. Of course, it's worth noting that the first increase in interest rates was under your government and, of course, as a result of the economic incompetence of your government. But we're putting downward pressure on it. What are some of the things we're doing? Child care—trying to put downward pressure on childcare costs, which you opposed. Electricity—putting caps on gas prices and, again, trying to push down the cost of electricity, when you had no policies in this area. Making sure people— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Trade with China, International Relations</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Good to see you're back, Minister. I note that you returned after visiting China with the Prime Minister and visiting Japan, one of our closest partners in the region. This week I couldn't help but turn on the radio and read many newspapers and see praise of the Albanese government's exceptional effort to stabilise our relationship with China. Can the minister please inform the Senate about the government's approach to Australia's relationship with our largest trading partner?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ciccone for the question. I would go back to what we said we would do before the election. Before the election we said to the Australian people that a Labor government would stabilise the relationship with China without compromising Australia's sovereign interests. That's what we said we would do and that is what we have done. Prime Minister Albanese's visit to China was the first visit by an Australian Prime Minister since 2016 and my second visit as foreign minister. I indicate that we appreciated the courtesy extended to the Prime Minister and to the Australian delegation.</para>
<para>The visit was an opportunity to continue our calm and consistent approach with China, the same approach that is delivering progress for the Australian people, progress in the resumption of trade. I acknowledge the work that Senator Farrell, as Minister for Trade and Tourism, has done on these matters when it comes to trade between our two countries in barley, coal, timber logs, cotton, hay, copper ores and concentrates. Australia continues to press for the resumption of trade in wine, red meat and lobster. We know that the period of trade impediments was really challenging for so many Australians, because trade matters to Australian jobs and China is our most important trading partner, representing more than 25 per cent of our exports, and one in four of our jobs relies on trade.</para>
<para>The Australian people know that we—this government—will continue to speak out on the matters that are important to Australians, which include not only trade impediments but Australians detained in China and human rights. I was very privileged to have the opportunity with Prime Minister Albanese to mark the 50th anniversary of the first visit to China by an Australian prime minister, Gough Whitlam, in 1973. His historic visit is a powerful reminder that whoever has the privilege of serving in these roles also has the responsibility to navigate this relationship wisely.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, first supplementary?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that while you were in Japan you discussed enhanced cooperation between our two nations in a time of increased global instability, including meeting with counterparts at the G7 foreign ministers meeting. Could you please provide an insight into the strength of Australia's international relationships and why they matter for a peaceful, stable and prosperous world?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have often said that our world is being reshaped and the focus of that reshaping is in our region. What does that mean for Australia? It means we know we cannot achieve the region we want alone. We have to work with allies, we have to work with partners and we have to work with other nations to enhance our collective security and our prosperity. I was privilege to visit Japan and meet with the Japanese Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister Kamikawa, and the Japanese National Security Advisor, Akiba Takeo. Australia and Japan have never been closer. We share an ambition for an Indo-Pacific which is peaceful, stable and prosperous in which sovereignty is respected. Just as we do with other like-minded nations, I was also able to catch up with other leaders in Tokyo, including my good friend the Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom, James Cleverly, and Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Melanie Joly. In these challenging times we need to work together on regional and global challenges, particularly the Hamas-Israel conflict.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, second supplementary?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Overnight, the G7 announced a united stance on the Hamas-Israel conflict. Can the minister please update the Senate on what the G7 foreign ministers have announced and how Australia is working with these partners to support civilians in the conflict?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Regardless of people's political views, I think I speak for all of us when I say it is impossible to absorb the harrowing images in Israel and Gaza with anything less than distress and horror. Australia welcomes the G7 foreign ministers' statement supporting humanitarian pauses and corridors in Gaza to facilitate urgently needed assistance and civilian movement. We join with the G7 in its condemnation of Hamas's terror attacks and call for the immediate release of all hostages without preconditions. Australia also reiterates our call on Israel to observe international law and the rules of war and protect civilian life. We also join with the G7 in indicating that the extremist settler violence committed against Palestinians is unacceptable. It undermines security in the West Bank and threatens prospects for a lasting peace. What is particularly notable about the G7 statement is the aspiration that Australia shares, which is that the imperative of an enduring peace and a two-state solution. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Yesterday the High Court overturned a 2004 judgement which has underpinned the migration policies of governments of both sides for the last two decades. The immediate consequence was to order the release from immigration detention of a non-citizen convicted of sexual intercourse with a child aged between 10 and 14 years, the victim being a 10-year-old boy. The government's own submissions made clear that the government may now need to release around 92 individuals, many of whom until now have not been permitted to enter the Australian community on character grounds. What steps is the government taking to protect the Australian community?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously, the government notes the ruling of the High Court yesterday. We are considering the implications of the judgement carefully and will continue to work with authorities to ensure community safety is upheld. I'm advised that the decision of the High Court does overturn a 20-year precedent and could trigger the release of a number of people from detention. Obviously, the government will work through this decision. I am advised that the individual released following the decision of the High Court has been placed on a visa arrangement with strict conditions, as you are aware.</para>
<para>They include various requirements in relation to reporting and personal details and other strict requirements.</para>
<para>What I would say is that this is obviously a judgement that has significant implications. I can assure the Senate that this government will continue to work with authorities in our response to this decision to ensure that community safety is upheld. When I am in a position to advise further about the government's response to this decision, I will advise the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Human Rights Commission made submissions, appeared in the case and argued that the 2004 authority should be overturned. It now has been, and the plaintiff will be released. Was the Human Rights Commission's participation in this case specifically approved by the Attorney-General, and how much Commonwealth money was spent arguing for the plaintiff's release into the Australian community?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not aware as to the details of the intervention in the case, nor am I aware as to whether or not the Human Rights Commission requires, for the exercise of its statutory functions, the permission of the Attorney-General. I would suggest that's probably unlikely, but I will ascertain whether in fact that is a requirement. But it is obviously an independent statutory body which is there, and has been there under both parties of government, to advocate within its remit.</para>
<para>I'd say more broadly that obviously this is a case that has overturned 20 years of precedent. We are examining it carefully, and I again assure the Senate and the Australian people that paramount in our response will be community safety.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The individual concerned was a noncitizen convicted of sexual intercourse with a child aged between 10 and 14 years, with the victim being a boy aged 10. In relation to the 92 people who may now need to be released, how many of them had been denied entry into the Australian community on character grounds; and, without commenting on any specific case, what type of offences had they committed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have that information to hand, Senator Cash. I would make this point: I understand this is a serious matter, and community safety is serious. But let us also remember that this is the High Court of Australia. The High Court of Australia has made a decision, which you would be bound by were you on this side. You would also be required, as this government is, to work through the implications of that decision, recognising the overturning of precedent, the arrangements which governments will have to put in place and the implications not only for that cohort but more generally. I again say that this government, in dealing with its response to this, will have at front of mind the imperative of assuring the safety of the Australian community.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is on the same topic, and it's to the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs, Senator Watt. Minister, in light of the High Court decision yesterday that effectively ruled that indefinite immigration detention is constitutionally unlawful, and given the Solicitor-General said to the High Court during the hearing that, if the court ruled in the way that it did, people within the scope of the ruling—and I quote from the Solicitor-General—'will need to be released immediately into the community', firstly, exactly what is the government doing to comply with the implications of this decision; how many people within the scope of the ruling have been released from immigration detention since the decision was handed down; have you now, as you must, immediately released all stateless people from immigration detention; and how many people within the scope of the ruling currently remain unlawfully in immigration detention?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKim. Obviously, Senator Wong has addressed a number of the issues contained in Senator McKim's question, but, to elaborate and specifically answer Senator McKim's question, I'll come to what we're doing about those matters. But I want to reinforce the point that the government's priority is the safety of the Australian community, and we think it's very important to ensure that, in managing this issue, that remains front and centre.</para>
<para>As you would know, I expect, Senator McKim, the decision of the High Court was released only yesterday afternoon. The High Court has not published its reasons for the decision yet. As soon as we receive those reasons, we will obviously be obtaining the advice of the Solicitor-General as to the implications of that decision for the other people in detention who it may affect. It is important that we receive those reasons and give them due consideration before we take the next steps that the decision would require.</para>
<para>To my knowledge—and I emphasise 'to my knowledge'—the only person who is affected by this decision who has been released at this point in time is the plaintiff in this particular decision. To my knowledge, none of the other people who whom the decision may relate have yet been released into the community. As I say, we are awaiting the reasons for the decision and the Solicitor-General's advice on that decision before we can make decisions about any further releases that may or may not occur.</para>
<para>I'd also like to say—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We're not a government that acts on decisions that haven't had reasons released. We're not a government that acts without legal advice to underpin our actions. What I can also say is that, where serious offenders are released from immigration detention, state and territory authorities are notified, and I understand that that has occurred in relation to the individual who has been released.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what part of the words 'High Court of Australia' do you not understand? The ruling was abundantly clear. Where there is no real prospect of someone's removal from Australia becoming practicable in the reasonably foreseeable future, they are being unlawfully detained. Have you got an argument with the High Court of Australia ruling? If not, why are you not getting to work now and ensuring that all people within the scope of that ruling are freed from the unlawful—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time has expired. Minister Watt?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, I advised you that time had expired. I expect you to sit down. Minister Watt.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but the case that was decided by the High Court yesterday was a case brought by one individual, and that decision of the High Court relates to that individual. The government has acted on the basis of the High Court's decision by releasing that individual into the community as required by the High Court's decision, with the protections around it in notifying state and territory authorities and all of the other protections that the community would expect.</para>
<para>In terms of how it relates to other individuals who are in detention, we cannot act on that decision until the reasons of the court are received and we receive legal advice as to how that decision relates to the other people involved. Once we receive the High Court's reasons, which go beyond that individual plaintiff and shed light on the application of that decision to other individuals, we will take what action is required, but the case related to that one individual, and we've taken the action required in relation to that individual.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Sounds like it's 'the vibe' of it, not the actual Constitution. Minister, will the government rule out trying to perpetuate indefinite immigration detention in this country by legislating its way around the High Court's decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, good governments rely on the reasons of court decisions to make decisions, and this government, being a good government, intends to do that. Once they are received, we also intend to seek legal advice from the Solicitor-General about the implications of those reasons and how they relate to other individuals who may be affected. The government will not be introducing rushed legislation that could exacerbate legal challenges; we've already seen the consequences of that in other matters where legislation that was introduced by the former government was found to be unconstitutional. So we'll be taking a considered approach to this to make sure that whatever action is taken is legally enforceable and complies with the law, because that's what good governments do. We're not all into stunts. We're not all into grandstanding. Some of us here are here to run good governments that abide by the law and abide by the High Court. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Public Service</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Government Services, Senator Farrell. Can the minister outline to the Senate how the Albanese government is ending robodebt and putting people back at the centre of government services and making Australians' lives better?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Polley. I know she's been very actively involved in the events surrounding robodebt. I can give you an answer to that question, Senator Polley. The myGov platform, a piece of key national infrastructure, is the front door through which important government services are delivered to most Australians. Today, Minister Shorten announced a new advisory group that will use expert insights to ensure—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>An advisory group, woo hoo!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, experts—not like what you were using—to ensure future myGov improvements put the customer first. This follows on from another major announcement on Monday this week to immediately provide a $228 million funding injection to recruit 3,000 ongoing frontline and service delivery staff at Services Australia this financial year. This investment means 3,000 new recruits will join the agency in roles targeted at improving Centrelink and Medicare services.</para>
<para>Liberal-National governments decimated frontline services by ripping thousands of staff out of Services Australia, leading to increased call times and processing delays. The Albanese government will not sit on its hands and let things get worse. These 3,000 new staff will be critical to reducing call waiting times, speeding up claim payments and giving back to Australians some time in their busy lives. Importantly, these extra resources are in addition to the 850 emergency response staff already provided for in the current budget, who have already been called on to support the Queensland bushfire response. The former Liberal-National government oversaw an unconstrained and out of control— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a shame those opposite didn't learn anything from that debacle. Can the minister inform the Senate what these 3,000 new recruits will be doing and where these new jobs will be located?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Polley for her first supplementary question. I'm pleased to announce that 800 people have already begun the onboarding process for the 3,000 new frontline and service delivery roles at Services Australia. These 3,000 new recruits will work in capital cities as well as in regional centres. This includes approximately 370 people who will be employed in my home state's capital of Adelaide and 90 in the senator's home state of Tasmania. By the end of the month, it is expected that 250 new recruits will be on board in metropolitan and regional New South Wales, with a further 650 to join them as part of this new staffing investment. I'm very proud to announce that all of these new jobs are ongoing APS roles.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Polley, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How does this crucial investment of 3,000 new recruits for Services Australia compare to the approach taken by the former Liberal government over the past decade?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Polley for her second supplementary question. This investment is in sharp contrast to that of the former coalition government, who for a decade decimated Services Australia's front line, cutting 3,800 frontline staff to make way for malicious, illegal, profit-making programs like robodebt. One of the key recommendations of the Royal Commission into the Robodebt Scheme outlined what the government should facilitate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… easy and efficient engagement with options of online, in person and telephone communication which is sensitive to the particular circumstances of the customer cohort.</para></quote>
<para>That's exactly what this injection of resources does. It returns humans to the government services and puts an end to the cruel practices of the former government.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pensions and Benefits</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Social Services, Senator Farrell. Australians are living through a cost-of-living crisis, and the rate rise on Tuesday is rubbing salt into the wound. The people who are doing it the toughest are the people on Centrelink payments, who are making difficult decisions about whether to put food on the table, or to put petrol in their car to fulfil all their mutual obligations or whether to go to the doctor to check out their persistent cough. As a result of indexation, in this financial year a single renter and jobseeker will lose the equivalent of two weeks of payments to income tax. This is because their annual income will now be above the tax-free threshold. Minister, why is the government giving payments to the poorest Australians on the one hand and taking those payments on the other?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Tyrrell, for that question. As I've made the point on numerous occasions during the course of this week, and before that, we do understand that many Australians are doing it tough with the combination of high inflation and the fact that the Reserve Bank is pushing up interest rates in this country. There is a mechanism for dealing with all of these issues, and you might have noticed from my previous answer the steps that this government is trying to take to ensure that those people who have an entitlement to something from Centrelink are actually able to go and see a person, talk to them and discuss their particular circumstances.</para>
<para>This government doesn't want to make things worse for any Australian, and all the things that we have been trying to do to put downward pressure on interest rates and the cost of living are designed to help the people in these circumstances who you're talking about. We're going to continue to do that, Senator Tyrrell, and we're going to try to provide assistance—particularly to those Australians who are doing it tough right now and who need it the most.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, your first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the age pension is exempt from income tax. Why are you exempting pensioners from the tax-free threshold but not the poorest people in the country—the people on JobSeeker?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's a range of tax policies in this country and you of course have highlighted one in particular. I can tell you that of course we don't have any plans to tax the age pension—if that was an implication in your question. We continue to try to provide assistance to those Australians who are most in need. This is a caring and compassionate government, led by a caring and compassionate Prime Minister. We are doing our best to repair the damage that was done by the former government in a whole range of these areas, and we'll continue to do that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, a second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I love that answer, thank you so much, Senator Farrell. Will the government commit here and now, at the worst point of the cost-of-living crisis to date, to exempt people on JobSeeker from paying income tax on their government payments, or to reassess the current situation with JobSeeker payments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to be clear about your question, Senator: you're asking me if the government is doing that, or if the government is going to consider doing that? Is that your question?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, perhaps you could repeat your question. It wasn't that long.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm asking: will the government commit here and now to exempt people on JobSeeker from paying income tax on their government payments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As much as I'd like to make government announcements in question time in the Senate, I should point out that I'm not the minister in this area.</para>
<para>We've got a terrific minister, I might add.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>From South Australia?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As a matter of fact, she is South Australian—Amanda Rishworth. I don't think I've come across a more compassionate and concerned minister in this—</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I'm going to say it.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Outside of the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Outside of the Senate. Minister Rishworth will do everything that she can to assist the people in the circumstances that you're talking about, but it's not appropriate for me to make announcements in her portfolio. I would be happy to ensure that you can go and meet with Minister Rishworth and put directly to her what you'd like to— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cost of Living</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Farrell. I ask the minister: is it correct that newly released analysis of OECD data indicates that—and I quote from the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Financial Review</inline>—'Australian households have suffered the largest fall in living standards of any advanced economy over the past year' as a result of high inflation, increasing mortgage repayments and the effects of bracket creep on income tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his question. I personally haven't seen those reports. But can I say—and I've said it many times this week—that it's the objective of the Albanese government to ensure that the sorts of issues that you've just referred to are dealt with in a competent, sensible and compassionate way so that this government puts downward pressure on all of those things that Australians are currently finding difficulty with. I've referred on so many occasions, Senator Birmingham, to the sorts of things that this government is doing.</para>
<para>Our first objective, of course, was to produce a $20 billion surplus, and, of course, that does have that downward pressure on interest rates. In addition to that, we've been providing a range of benefits to the Australian people to keep that downward pressure on—things like child care and things like rebates on your electricity. In the same process—again, I don't know if this particular article refers to it—of course, we have created 561,000 jobs in the time that we've been in government. All of those—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On direct relevance: the minister acknowledged at the start of the question that he, perhaps unsurprisingly for the minister, didn't know and wasn't aware of the OECD analysis, but, having waffled on from the couple of minutes after giving that indication, he could at least be directly relevant and helpful to the Senate and take on notice for the government its response to this and the particular question about whether it is correct that the OECD analysis shows Australia is the worst-performing advanced economy for the impact on household incomes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order on relevance, I would say to you, President: perhaps it's only the Liberal opposition that might suggest an answer about jobs is not relevant to living standards, but we on the other side recognise that it is.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In response to the point of order, obviously I can't direct the minister as to how to answer the question or whether or not he takes it on notice, but the minister is being relevant, and, as you pointed out, he did acknowledge he wasn't aware of the article in the first part of his response to your question. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was talking about jobs, and, as Minister Wong said, I would have thought that was quite a crucial response to the issues that you've raised. You're obviously always in a much better position if you've got a job— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My supplementary question to the Minister representing the Treasurer is: given the OECD analysis shows Australian households as being the worst off amongst advanced economies, what is the Albanese Labor government's analysis of how much higher inflation, higher interest rates and increased tax from bracket creep has eroded the disposable incomes of Australians over the last year?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his first supplementary question. We know Australians are doing it tough right at the moment—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, no—we understand that, and we are taking steps to try and address those issues. If I've said it once, I've said it a lot of times this week. We are trying to deal with these issues and put downward pressure on inflation to make life easier for ordinary Australians. It's the things that you voted against and that we have managed to get into legislation that are the sorts of things that ordinary Australians are benefiting from right this moment, whether it be cheaper child care, electricity bill relief, increased— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call Senator Birmingham, I will remind senators, particularly on my left, that interjections across the chamber are disorderly. Senator Birmingham, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is my second supplementary question to the Minister representing the Treasurer. The striking thing about this analysis is it shows Australian households as being worse off than households in any other advanced economies. Given this OECD data and the analysis of it, why have the disposable incomes of Australian households been hit so much harder over the last year under the Albanese Labor government than those of all of the other advanced economies? Why are Australians worse off, compared with the rest of the world, under you?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Birmingham for his second supplementary question. I simply don't accept the premise of your question.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Listen to some of the facts—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Order! Minister Farrell, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In this country, inflation peaked lower and later than in most of the G7 nations that you're referring to.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You ask me the questions, and then you interrupt me when I'm giving you the answers. The reason for that—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. I just called the Senate to order and, the minute the minister got to his feet, the disorder started again. Please listen in silence. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President, for that protection. Given inflation peaked later in Australia, its moderation is only slightly behind. Inflation is moderating, but it will remain higher than we'd like for longer than we'd like. We've said that. Our economic plan is engineered to ease pressure— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>South Australia: Floods</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Minister Wong. Minister, you will recall the floods of 2022 and 2023, when vast amounts of water travelled down both the Murray and the Darling systems, through South Australia and out to sea. Does the minister know how much water flowed through the system during those flood times? I accept that information may need to be provided on notice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. I am aware, as I think all Australians are, of the floods which occurred in the period to which you refer and of the effect on river communities, including in South Australia—as Senator Ruston would attest to—as a consequence of those floods. What I would also say is that I also, like many other South Australians, would go down to near the Murray mouth, and there was a lot of water coming through, a lot of pollution, obviously, and a lot of topsoil. It was a really difficult time, I think, for people both downstream and upstream, as a consequence of those floods.</para>
<para>I think Senator Watt will be able to speak more broadly about the flood response from the Commonwealth government. Certainly, it was a very difficult time for many communities.</para>
<para>However, that doesn't obviate the policy point, which is we know the Murray-Darling Basin Plan hasn't been delivered by those opposite. And we know that, over 10 years, the divisions which are now on display in the coalition, as between the National Party and some parts of the Liberal Party, particularly those from South Australia, meant that that plan was not delivered. We now have those opposite intent on wrecking a plan that they undermined whilst in government; that is the hard reality.</para>
<para>What I also would say—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> It's so predictable, isn't it? What I would also say to you, Senator Van, is the fact that there was a lot of water as a consequence of flooding does not obviate the broader policy problem, which is how do we deal with over-allocation and sustainability, environmental flows as well as economic sustainability. All of these matters are matters the government has seized on. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can you tell us what the current state of the Lower Lakes is?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): Senator Ruston has suggested an answer to that, but I suggest it is a bit too flippant for me to use. On this we are aligned, I think. I would say to you I am aware that some from other states have very strong views that are different to mine and different to the government's on this. When we look at the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, our focus is the health of the whole river system. I have been water minister previously. I know the argument that some of the upstream communities and some lobbyists have about the Lower Lakes. My view is we need to look at the sustainability of the whole system and that is what the plan seeks to do. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I agree. It is the whole system that needs to be looked after. Given, as I said in my two-minute statement earlier today, that the Murray is suffering from overflow and too much water running through it, isn't there a better way than buybacks, which are going to kill farming communities, and getting more water down the Darling into the Murray and into South Australia rather than continuing to damage the Murray River?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact that we have extraordinary flooding in one season does not obviate the need to implement the plan. It does not work. I would make the point that in nine years those opposite, who were committed to delivering 450 gigalitres with their implementation—or non-implementation—of the plan delivered two out of 450. That is the reality of what we are dealing with.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, this is Senator Van's question. I am happy to take a question again from you on water. But my point is that if 450 gigalitres were supposed to be delivered and two were delivered then obviously we have to look at it in different ways. We have outlined how we will approach that. The minister has said we need more time to deliver the water based on the expert advice. We need more options to deliver the remaining water, including water efficiency infrastructure projects and voluntary water buybacks—voluntary water purchase. We want more funding to support communities where those buybacks have impacts. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. The Albanese government has made it clear that its No. 1 priority is addressing inflation and cost-of-living pressures with a targeted and comprehensive $23 billion 10-point plan to help address cost-of-living pressures in our economy. Can the minister please explain how this relief has been calibrated in a way so as to not aggravate inflation, and how is the government paving the way for future economic growth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pratt, for a question on the cost of living. What I would have said if the opposition had asked me some of their questions is that, while you might need academic analysis and definitions, we on this side do understand that Australians are doing it tough. Unlike you, we are delivering $23 billion of cost-of-living relief to Australians. Whenever they come in and bleat about the cost of living, let's remember they opposed cheaper energy, they opposed cheaper medicine, they opposed more Medicare bulk billing, they opposed fee-free TAFE, they opposed more housing for Australians and the expansion of paid parental leave, and they opposed getting wages moving again. So whenever you come in here and talk to us about the cost of living—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, I have just called the chamber to order, and that includes you. The interjections across the chamber are disorderly. Please listen in silence. I will call the minister back to continue her answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let's remember those opposite when it comes to cheaper medicine. Six times you voted to prevent Australians getting cheaper medicines. Every time you come in here and talk about the cost of living, we're going to remind you that six times you voted against cheaper medicine. What about cheaper child care? Senator Hume said this was not a policy that you would introduce. So you don't want cheaper child care? You don't want cheaper child care? Let's remember also—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on a point of order, I would ask that you direct the minister to direct her comments through the chair. She keeps on saying 'you'.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, the minister is directing her comments through the chair.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! What I would also call for is silence across the chamber. Minister Wong, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very happy to address you directly, President, and I understand why they feel sensitive and why they don't like the word 'you'. They don't want to take responsibility for being the party of higher energy prices. They don't want to take responsibility for being the party that voted against energy price relief. They don't want to take responsibility for being the party that voted against cheaper medicines. No, they just want to come in here and make political points. They have no plan when it comes to the cost of living.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McKenzie, you always have to have the last word—seriously! Senator Pratt, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please provide the Senate an update on the government's recent initiatives to further support Australian households, particularly in health and housing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pratt. This month, additional cost-of-living relief—again, opposed by those opposite—is rolling out, which will help Australians, particularly in health and housing. Last week, on 1 November, the bulk-billing incentive was tripled. Under this Labor government which supports Medicare, unlike those opposite, the bulk-billing incentive was tripled, making it easier for 11 million young and low-income Australians to see a GP without out-of-pocket costs. That is what this government is working to deliver in a tough environment for Australian families—delivering more assistance so more people can see a doctor without out-of-pocket costs. That's something only a Labor government will deliver because we know what the coalition have always thought about Medicare.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Seriously, this is really disrespectful. Senator Pratt, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please detail the specific measures the Albanese government has implemented to help Australians afford essentials over this difficult inflationary time? And what impact is that support having on people who need it most?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me list the ways in which this government is working to help with the cost of living because we understand how difficult life is for so many Australians and our responsibility to deliver practical assistance. We're delivering $23 billion in assistance for cost-of-living relief to Australians in electricity bill relief, so famously opposed by every single one of those opposite. The interjections might be loud, but the truth is they voted against energy price relief. We're delivering cheaper childcare, also opposed; increased rental assistance; more Medicare bulk-billing; cheaper medicines, opposed on at least six occasions; boosting of income support payments; fee-free TAFE; building more affordable homes; expanding paid parental leave; and getting wages moving again. This government has delivered the first budget surplus in 15 years. Talk about working to put downward pressure on inflation; that is what we're doing. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Medicare</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Senator Farrell. Last week the government's bulk-billing measure came into effect as bulk-billing rates have plummeted every month since you have been in government to the lowest level since 2013. This week it was reported that Dr Gihan de Mel, a member of the Monash Health GP Advisory Committee, has written to the health minister about the measure saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… it's essential to recognise that the vast majority of the population will not directly benefit from this.</para></quote>
<para>Minister, how many Australians does the government believe will directly benefit from this measure and not the number who will be eligible?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ruston for her question. You can't automatically or immediately fix the problems that we inherited from your government, particularly from your time in this portfolio, Senator Ruston. But we have started—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thought the minister might like to correct that. I have never held the health portfolio.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We can't overnight fix the problems that your government caused after nine years of neglect of Medicare. But we are starting the process of rebuilding the Medicare system, in particular the bulk-billing system. I reject the implication in your question that ordinary Australians are not benefitting by these changes because the reality is that ordinary Australians will benefit by what we are doing.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order on relevance: it was quite a simple question, and that was the number of people who will benefit from this measure—not the number of people who are eligible, the number of people who will benefit.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There was also a quote, and you referenced 13 years and Medicare bulk-billing, which the minister is entitled to address.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The centrepiece of our budget in the recent incentives we have introduced was the tripling of the bulk-billing incentive, the largest increase in the incentive in the 40-year history of Medicare. We are going to do what you failed to do; we are going to rebuild the system. If we could click our fingers and fix the system overnight, we would, but unfortunately we can't. This is going to take some time because you and your government did so much damage to the system for so long. We are going to fix it.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, first supplementary?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what is the average cost to Australians right now for a standard GP consult, what is the Medicare rebate of that consult and what is the average out-of-pocket expense?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What we know about your legacy in this portfolio, as a former government, is that you neglected primary care and froze the Medicare rebate for six years. Whatever the figures might be at the present point of time, they're coming after your government froze the Medicare rebate for six years.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order on misleading the Senate. It was not the coalition government that froze the Medicare—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You froze the—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Farrell, please resume your seat. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Chair, I would ask you to draw the minister's attention to the fact that he is misleading the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's exactly the same you point you just jumped on. I said it was not a point of order and that it's a debating point. I invite you to make a contribution later.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll make another point, then, about your record in this space if don't like that point. The former government neglected primary care and misled—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Rennick?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I raise a point of order on direct relevance. He's not answering the question. The cost of seeing a doctor has gone from $80 to $100.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question went to rebates and the minister is being relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The other side just love asking me questions and then answering them themselves. I do wonder, if they know the answer already, why— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, your second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Despite the rising the cost of visiting a GP and plummeting bulk-billing, your government has refused to state that the aim of this measure—that is, the tripling of bulk-billing—is to increase the rate of bulk-billing by GP appointments in Australia. Minister, can you guarantee that the rate of bulk-billed GP appointments will increase as a result of the measure that was introduced on 1 November, and by how much?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ruston for her second supplementary question. Yes.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>62</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion calling for a ceasefire in Gaza in the terms circulated in the chamber.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Waters, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter—namely, a motion relating to a call for a ceasefire in Gaza to be moved immediately.</para></quote>
<para>The moment for the Senate to support a ceasefire between all parties in Gaza is now. Every second that passes is ending more and more innocent lives. The hunger of the people of Gaza deepens. The thirst becomes more profound. More refugee camps are turned to rubble and more medical facilities are destroyed.</para>
<para>The Australian government cannot take a moment longer to support a ceasefire. This motion gives them the opportunity to do so. If anyone in this place doubts the urgency of this motion, consider what we've seen occur in the past few days in Gaza. The death toll stands at over 10,000. There are countless more people missing under growing piles of rubble. Many families are surviving on only one meal a day. Water consumption in Gaza is currently reduced by 92 per cent of the rate of consumption before 7 October. The Red Crescent has said that forces of the State of Israel have targeted International Red Cross humanitarian aid convoys trying to reach Gaza City. We've had a report of Doctors Without Borders staff being killed.</para>
<para>Let us consider what the next days and weeks could bring.</para>
<para>Five thousand five hundred women in Gaza are due to give birth soon or within the coming month. Over half of Gaza's educational facilities have been hit, including 29 UN schools. Eight of these were being used as emergency shelters for displaced people. A school in the south of Gaza with a maximum capacity of 2,000 people is currently host to over 22,500 displaced people. In this facility there are only 16 bathrooms. None of them flush. Communicable diseases are beginning to spread like wildfire. There is fear of a cholera outbreak.</para>
<para>More than 41 per cent of people killed in Gaza since 7 October have been children. That's two-fifths of nearly every civilian death every single day. As of 48 hours ago, 1,350 children were reported missing. Last week, one child died in Gaza every 15 minutes. This week, one child dies every 10. One child is injured in Gaza every five minutes. Twice as many Palestinian children have been killed in Gaza over the past month as the total number of Palestinian children killed in the West Bank and Gaza since 1967. Palestinians are no longer talking about 'if' they die; they are talking about 'when' they will die.</para>
<para>This is a humanitarian catastrophe. These are war crimes being committed by the state of Israel. Mothers are having to mark their children's skin permanently in order to ensure that their names are located with the body parts which they expect to soon be extracted from the rubble. Fathers are digging their sons out of the rubble only to have nowhere to bury them. Journalists sharing these stories around and throughout the conflict zone are putting themselves and their families at risk. Thirty-six of these fearless storytellers have been killed so far. Every civilian life is deserving of dignity and is protected by international law. If this government cannot call for a ceasefire, cannot condemn these war crimes, what is the point in its existence? We must join together with the community and declare, 'Ceasefire now!' Ceasefire now! Ceasefire now!</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I call you to order. Put those props away.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is right to say there is a humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza. It is right to say, as I have said, that the loss of life—loss of innocent live, of women and children, civilians—is devastating. I would make the point that we are seeking to engage with others, including Israel but also the other countries of the region and the Palestinian authority, to put our voice to efforts to try and ensure that there is a humanitarian pause in the fighting and that the conflict does not spread more broadly, which will result in the loss of more life.</para>
<para>I understand those who want to make a political point in this chamber, and I understand you did so earlier in the week. What I would say is this: the people of Gaza cannot wait for the parties to this conflict to agree to a ceasefire, so we are joining the international community, including the G7, in calling for pauses in the hostilities, because we understand that food, water, fuel, medicine and other essential assistance must be delivered into Gaza.</para>
<para>I would also make this point: there were some assertions made by the Greens' spokesperson then in very emotional terms. What this government has said is that, in affirming Israel's right to defend itself, we have consistently emphasised that the way Israel defends itself matters. We understand it is difficult to defeat a craven terrorist group—</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I listened to you—that has burrowed itself in civilian infrastructure. I make this point to Israel. Israel is a democratic nation state, like Australia, pledged to the rule of law, and the standards we democracies seek and accept are high. So, when Israel's friends, including Australia, urge Israel to exercise restraint and protect civilian lives, it is critical that Israel listens. This is because innocent civilians in Gaza do deserve protection. Women and children—innocent civilians—should not pay for the crimes and provocations of Hamas. And it is also to prevent escalation of conflict throughout Israel's own neighbourhood.</para>
<para>I have said publicly, some days ago, that the international community will not accept ongoing civilian deaths. I would also make this point: international humanitarian law requires the application of principles of distinction, of proportionality and of precaution in military operations. That is the position the Australian government continues to take in this extremely difficult conflict—a conflict which began with terrorist acts by an organisation which is dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel. We are seeking to engage with the international community to do what we can to protect civilian lives, and we know that, ultimately, peace in this region must come from a political process, a durable peace which does lead to a two-state solution, where both Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace and security behind internationally recognised borders.</para>
<para>Australia has been, and will continue to be, part of the community of nations that is urging humanitarian pauses in hostilities so that there can be aid to civilians, support to civilians and some modicum of safety for civilians. We will continue to urge Israel to comply with international law, including international humanitarian law, as I have outlined, and we will continue to do all we can with other countries in the world to move to a political process which ensures that we do not see the continuation of the sort of devastation and the loss of civilian life that we have been seeing.</para>
<para>I understand this is a deeply difficult, emotional and distressing issue for so many Australians on both sides of this debate, and how we approach our differences of views about their appropriate policy matters. It matters to the people in the Australian community, and it matters to the cohesion of our wonderful, vibrant multicultural community, so many of whom, sadly, are suffering this day.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The tragic events across Israel and in Gaza are serious and complex issues. These serious and complex issues in Israel and in Gaza require a far more sombre and considered response than the childish stunts or university tactics that we see from the Australian Greens. The walkouts from this chamber, the waving around of props and the pathetic games that are played at the other end of the chamber on this issue do not reflect in any way the gravity and the seriousness of the circumstances and the issues that are being dealt with by countries and governments right around the world to try to ensure a situation where terrorism is not allowed to prevail but where innocent lives can, ultimately, be protected. They must be the two goals through this crisis: terrorism must not be allowed to prevail, but innocent lives must seek to be protected now and into the future.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens are coming in here again, calling for a ceasefire. A ceasefire under what terms? Because I can tell you the types of terms that a ceasefire should be enabled under. A ceasefire should be one in which Hamas surrenders. A ceasefire should be one in which Hamas surrenders its military infrastructure and its terrorist infrastructure—the types of rocket launchers and other things that they are hiding and have hidden in kindergartens, schools and medical facilities, and behind innocent Palestinian lives, who they use as a shelter and a shield so shamelessly and with such cowardice. Hamas should surrender its leaders, its military operatives and the terrorists who launched the barbaric assault against innocent children, babies, the elderly, young people enjoying a music festival and others on 7 October. Hamas should surrender and unconditionally release the 240 hostages still being held. That would be a ceasefire that helps to ensure terrorism does not win and that, ultimately, innocent lives are protected.</para>
<para>But this motion does not come with those types of expectations, because it comes from a party who could not even bring themselves to vote for a motion condemning Hamas in the first place. We should ask: what would the consequences be of the type of action the Australian Greens seek? The consequences would be an ability for Hamas to re-arm, an ability for Hamas to regroup and, ultimately, an ability from that for Hamas to undertake further terrorist actions, the likes of which occurred on 7 October. The Greens fool themselves if they think that a simple ceasefire today would stop more innocent lives being lost in the future, because it would not. We would see tragic repetition of the types of terrorist attacks that have been undertaken.</para>
<para>The Greens bring this motion to this place today on a day when Australian Holocaust survivors have made a brave, courageous and, indeed, unprecedented joint statement about the impact these events continue to have, with a rise in antisemitism which they see is analogous to the type of division and hatred that was occurring prior to the Second World War. Rather than the types of stunts we see from the Greens, we should be standing united in condemnation of terrorism and in acknowledging that every innocent life lost—a Palestinian life, an Israeli life, any other innocent life lost—is a tragedy and that we all wish to see the actions outlined, for example, in the G7 leader's statement achieved in terms of greater humanitarian access. We all wish, ultimately, to see a world in which Israelis and Palestinians are able to live side by side, free of the threat of terror and free of conflict. But this motion would not achieve that. It would just perpetuate the horrors that are currently being experienced.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the Senate is that the question be put.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:22]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>37</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I now intend to put the substantive question before the Senate, which will involve the suspension of standing orders. The question before the Senate is that the motion moved by Senator Steele-John be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:29] <br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>11</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>39</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Van, D. A.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>66</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by Opposition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>In particular, I rise to take note of the answer to the first question. The issue of cost of living, we know, is the single biggest issue that Australians are facing right now. Anyone who is spending any time in the community engaging with people knows that people are hurting significantly. We know that rises in interest rates have been decided on by the Reserve Bank. Twelve times since this government has been elected, the Reserve Bank have had to make the decision to require Australian households to do the heavy lifting in the economy to reduce inflation, because this government is not doing its job of leading and directing the programs and processes to ensure that we've got reduced pressure on inflation, and it's leaving it up to households.</para>
<para>We know that households across Australia are having a very difficult time making ends meet. Mortgages have gone up. If you're on a $750,000 mortgage, which in some states seems to be about the average—it's higher than what it would be in my home state of Western Australia, where it's about $500,000—your mortgage repayments have gone up $24,000 since interest rates started to rise. Where do you find that sort of money if you're on an average salary? It's phenomenal.</para>
<para>The problem that we have is that this government is not doing anything to address it. In fact, not only do they have no plan to address the cost of living, but the plans that they have put in place are actually adding fuel to inflation. The government come in here and say that they are doing things to address this, and they rattle off their programs, like the energy support and cheaper child care.</para>
<para>I just want to address one thing here while we're talking about cheaper child care. I'll just draw your attention, Mr Deputy President, to Senator Wong, who, in answers to questions today, actually misled the Senate when she said that the coalition did not support cheaper child care. I refer you back to the record. We supported the cheaper childcare bill in this place. We supported that legislation. We were critical of the fact that all that would happen was that the increase in subsidies would be swallowed up by an increase in charges by service providers, and, lo and behold, that is exactly what has happened. If you ask a family, 'Are you paying more today for child care than what you were paying before?' the answer, of course, is yes.</para>
<para>Senator Wong is not the only one. Senator Chisholm in estimates said the same thing—that the coalition didn't support the cheaper childcare plan. That is misleading. I know Senator Wong is here right now; I would encourage her to go and check what she said on <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> today and come back in here and explain to the Senate whether or not she has misled the Senate, because I believe that she has. I don't make these sorts of accusations lightly. That's the truth, as far as I understand it. I remember because I ran the inquiry for the coalition into the cheaper childcare bill, and we supported it. You can check the report that the opposition provided in support of that bill. We were critical of it, as I've pointed out, absolutely.</para>
<para>It's just like the other measures. They said that electricity prices were going to be cheaper for Australians. They said it over 90 times throughout the election campaign. They said that they were going to be $275 cheaper, yet we know that the cost of electricity has gone up anywhere from 15 to 20 per cent for some people. So you can't say that your measures are actually helping to reduce cost-of-living pressures when, in fact, the cost of living is still going up. I mean, it's just evident. Anyone that is paying their bills, booking a flight, paying their mortgage, paying for their electricity or going and doing their grocery shopping can see that we are paying more. And, sadly, this government is asleep at the wheel, the Treasurer is at sea when it comes to managing the economy, and Australians are hurting because of it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to contribute to this debate as well. I think it's very important that we get all the facts out and get the truth out. For someone who's spent a lifetime not only fighting for my mates but fighting for my members in the TWU for all those years, every time the cost of living moves, absolutely, it hurts us. But let's not forget that this opposition over here, when in government, was the government who made it a deliberate plan of their time in government to suppress wage growth—to keep wage growth low. The former senator Mathias Cormann, who was Minister for Finance at the time, actually said it. He didn't hide that. He came out and said it—to keep wages low.</para>
<para>I tell you what, if we don't keep wages moving, every time we have a cost-of-living crisis, it will get worse and worse, the knock-on effect, so we just have to get the truth out there. We now have a tranche of industrial relations reform, closing the loopholes, in front of the Senate now. We know what side of that the Lib-Nats sit. They totally oppose any opportunity to get the wages moving in this country. None of them will look at me and argue. They'll all keep looking down. We know that for a fact because they're on the side of the baddies. They're on the side of the chamber of commerce, the Minerals Council of Australia, COSBOA—I don't think they even represent any small business—the National Farmers Federation. Do I have to say any more? We are trying to outlaw wage theft. What we've clearly said is if an employee steals from the boss then the employee should be sacked. Make no mistake about that. We don't hide that. It is a crime. But this mob opposite, when an employer deliberately steals from an employee, they support it. They're opposing our bill to criminalise wage theft. Here they all are, looking down at their desks, not arguing with me, not trying to interject or get me to retract.</para>
<para>Earlier this year we put through our first tranche of industrial relations reform. It was called Secure Jobs, Better Pay because we want people not to be working 40, 50, 60 hours a week casually when they don't want to be casual. Let me put this out there as an ex-union organiser for the Transport Workers' Union, an ex-truck driver: some people like to be part-time and some people like to be casual. We understand that. It's not for us to say they can't. But there are a heck of a lot of people who are working massive hours—day-in, day-out, week-in, week-out, month-in, months-out—who would love nothing better than a permanent rate of pay. All of you in the chamber and up in the gallery know this: it doesn't matter how much you earn, you can't go to the bank and say, 'Look at all this money I'm earning. I'm only casual but I'd love to buy a home.' You cannot buy a home if you don't have a permanent job. Sorry, I'll rephrase that. You can't get a loan.</para>
<para>This same mob opposite will gingerly keep their heads down—I don't know what they're checking out, maybe the real estate markets for their holiday homes—will not take the argument up with me and will then try and condemn us to get the nation moving. We're the first party in here to say we want to share the common wealth. We want employers to be bouyant, because when employers are buoyant, they pass it on down the chain to their employees. It is this side of the parliamentary chamber that understands how to keep good relationships going out there in the industrial relations scene—happy workers, happy bosses.</para>
<para>But you have those massive corporations—the majority of them from America—squeezing the living daylights out of our supply chains while they're protected, unfortunately, by that side of parliament, opposing us, opposing our every opportunity to get this great nation moving and going forward together. We should never, ever be embarrassed to say, 'Australia is a wonderful place to live. Australia is a wonderful place to bring up your children.' We do enjoy, over the years, a good wage. When we have a good wage, guess what we do with it? We spend. The first thing we do is we buy more things or we go out more often or we spend it on our kids and spoil them as much as we can. Is that a sin, I ask Australia? Is that a sin? I don't want to live in South-East Asia on a suppressed wage but my bowl of food only costs 80 cents. No, thank you. I live in Australia. I want to keep Australian wages and conditions moving. Ask the question to that side of the chamber: Why did they oppose every opportunity we have to increase wages in this nation?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I just remind you that senators are entitled to sit at their desks and work as they please, and to restrain future commentary on what they're up to unless it's in breach of standing orders, and to let me know.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In making his bid to be Prime Minister at last year's election, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese said that he had a plan, a plan that would make Australians better off, a plan that would make Australia wealthier. But, 17 months later, Labor's economic plans are hurting Australia and hurting Australian families.</para>
<para>Labor's plan for immigration has just made things worse. Unmodelled record immigration with 500,000 new people in just 12 months has placed direct inflationary pressure on housing. In Perth, in my home state of Western Australia, the average price of a rental unit has increased by $125 or 29 per cent since Labor's election in May last year. Labor's plan for infrastructure is only making things worse. In the nine months to April this year more than 1,700 construction companies have collapsed. The number of loans issued for the purchase of construction of new homes is at its lowest since 2008. Yet Labor's $80 billion infrastructure binge is choking housing investment and increasing the cost of labour and materials. And Labor's plan for energy is only making things worse. Since May 2022 gas has increased by 28 per cent and electricity has increased by 18 per cent. Still, Labor has allowed the Scarborough and Barossa gas projects, combined worth more than $20 billion to the Australian economy, to be tied up in the courts. Without reform, gas from these essential projects will remain buried beneath the ocean while Australian homes and businesses suffer with high energy prices. Labor's plan for industrial relations is just making things worse. Labor's proposed industrial relations legislation, by including road transport in labour laws and stripping powers from the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission, will cripple proudly independent truck drivers and increase transport costs. It will serve no-one beyond the Australian Workers Union. Labor's plan is just making things worse.</para>
<para>Labor's economic plan is hurting Australia and it's hurting Australian families. And every time the RBA is forced to raise interest rates, that is a fail. That is a fail for the Australian Labor Party and this Labor government. Interest rate rises are the RBA saying 'fail' on the economic performance and economic plan of this Labor government. The RBA's decision earlier this week to raise interest rates again—the 12th time while Labor has been in government—to 4.35 per cent is hurting people. And think of that: interest rate rise No. 1, on interest rate rise No. 2, on interest rate rise No. 3, to 12 interest rate rises. And where is that pain being felt the most? It's being felt the most by first home buyers living in our suburbs on the outskirts of our cities, the very same people who trusted Anthony Albanese, the then-opposition leader, when he said while bidding for the prime ministership and running his election campaign, that he would make things better, easier for Australian families. Those very same people who trusted Labor in May last year are bearing the brunt of Labor's poor economic management.</para>
<para>The RBA is independent, and it is making an independent judgement, an independent assessment, on whether or not this government's plan is working. But whether it's immigration or infrastructure or industrial relations or indeed energy, everything in Labor's plan is just making things worse. Think about that for a moment. We're not three years into this government, we're not four years into this government, it's been just 17 months. Just 17 month, and things have got significantly harder, more difficult for Australian families. The Prime Minister now, 17 months later, says that he is concerned. It's a little bit too late because people are hurting. <inline font-style="italic">(Ti</inline><inline font-style="italic">me expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've been listening with interest to the way senators have sought to frame this debate, and they've sought to frame it in a way that suggests there is a difference in the recognition of the significant cost-of-living pressures that are being experienced by Australians at the moment.</para>
<para>And there isn't. We absolutely acknowledge that people in our community are doing it really tough right now—that the cost-of-living pressures on Australians are hitting hard, that their family budgets are getting tighter and that Australians are paying more for things that they can't live without. People are hurting—people in our communities are hurting. The fact is that things like the independent Reserve Bank's decision to increase interest rates do hurt and inflation does hurt. Both these things have been on the rise for some time; they didn't start under this government, they started when the opposition was in government. They're hurting people, and we absolutely acknowledge that these pressures are real and that they're being made worse by events overseas, including the conflict unfolding in the Middle East and the conflict in Ukraine, and the pressures on global energy markets. These things are all adding to inflationary pressures in our economy.</para>
<para>That's exactly why our No. 1 focus as a government has been on addressing the cost of living, but seeking to do so in a way which doesn't add further to the inflationary pressures which already exist in our economy. Our cost-of-living package is $23 billion of various cost-of-living relief measures. To say that the government is doing nothing here is just abjectly false. We have a $23 billion plan for cost-of-living relief, and many of the measures within it the opposition didn't even vote for. On energy relief: we came back to the parliament last year, urgently seeking to do something to provide energy price relief for Australians and the opposition didn't vote for it. We brought the Housing Australia Future Fund in here, to build tens of thousands of affordable homes for Australians—including Australian families where there are individuals fleeing domestic violence and including houses for emergency service workers—and they voted against that package, which will provide much-needed, affordable housing for Australians doing it tough. They voted against cheaper medicines. That's a significant policy to take one of the most significant costs off some Australians—to lower those costs and, again, to do it in a way which doesn't add to the inflationary pressures already existing within our economy and, indeed, existing within the global economy. They voted against that one too—they voted against cheaper medicines too.</para>
<para>Our plan is extensive and it covers a range of things in our economy—things like cheaper child care. If you have young children, the cost of child care can be a huge part of your family budget. We've made substantial investments to relieve that pressure so that children still have access to that incredible early-learning environment, but in a way which makes it easier for families. We're funding fee-free TAFE training all across our country, including significant places in South Australia. We're extending Paid Parental Leave and we're creating jobs. We've created over 500,000 jobs since we've come to this place. But we don't just want to see more jobs, we want to see good jobs. We want wages to get moving again; we supported an increase to the minimum wage and we're funding an increase for aged-care workers to get their wages moving significantly.</para>
<para>We've delivered the first surplus in 15 years. That's the goal those opposite held up more than anything else during their time in government. They loved it so much, they got the mugs printed! That's how much it meant to them. We've delivered that surplus. It's a $23 billion cost-of-living relief package, and we're doing it because we see and understand the pressures which Australians are feeling right now. Cost-of-living relief is our No. 1 priority, and to frame this debate in any other way is misleading and it is false.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the week that the government finally admitted that they've had it wrong for months now and have to take some of the blame for the extra mortgage pain we've seen unleashed on Australian families by the Reserve Bank this week.</para>
<para>I say that because it was this week that Jim Chalmers fronted the media and finally revealed that he might actually have to do something about government spending to help with the fight against inflation. Indeed, the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Review</inline> reported a few days ago that Treasurer Jim Chalmers concedes the government will have to cut back on some infrastructure projects to help in the fight against inflation. Mr Chalmers was quoted on the ABC's<inline font-style="italic"> Insiders </inline>program as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I do think we're going to need to make some difficult decisions about the infrastructure pipeline, which factors in those $33 billion of blowouts from …</para></quote>
<para>Blah, blah, blah. Here we have a situation where the government announced a budget six months ago in which they massively boosted government spending, which has fuelled inflation, which has therefore caused the Reserve Bank to have to act this week to increase interest rates. Now, finally, six months later, we've got this concession saying, 'Maybe we should have controlled spending.' Why didn't the Treasurer do that six months ago? He had the opportunity to do something to help Australians struggling with inflation when he put his budget plan together. He could have done something to help reduce the heat in the economy. This was an issue a year ago. This was an issue six months ago. It's now an issue that's even worse today because the government has been sitting on their hands doing nothing. They've done absolutely nothing. In fact, I shouldn't say that. I'll take that back. They have been spending your money and adding fuel to the inflation fire.</para>
<para>Six months ago, in their budget, they increased government spending through their own decisions. These were explicit policy decisions that the government made. They increased government spending by $22 billion. That's in their own budget. There's a table towards the back of the budget which shows what the impact of government policy decisions were in that budget. In that budget, six months ago, the government increased spending of your money by $22 billion. How does that figure compare to other budgets? In fact, you have to go all the way back to the Kevin Rudd era, if you don't count the COVID years. Obviously, the COVID years were a little bit different. If you don't count the COVID years, you have to go all the way back to Kevin Rudd to find a bigger-spending budget than this one six months ago. At least Kevin Rudd had the excuse of the global financial crisis. He had a global recession that was ruling the world at the time. His Treasury secretary told him to go hard and go early or go home, so to speak. Because of that, he unleashed a lot of government spending. We can debate whether that was the right approach, too, but at least he had that excuse. Mr Chalmers used to work for Kevin Rudd. He might be addicted to this approach.</para>
<para>This time, Mr Chalmers had an economy that was overheating. He had an inflation rate that was over seven per cent last year, and he decided to deliver a budget which massively expanded government spending. That is the record. That is what this government did. The consequence of the mistakes the government made in their budget six months ago is that Australians are now paying more on their mortgages. More Australians are in mortgage stress. It's a record number for over a decade, with 1½ million Australians now paying more than 30 per cent of their income on their mortgage repayments. They're in a lot of stress. They're doing it tough. And the government has been sitting back and doing nothing to help.</para>
<para>You can go back and check the record: for the last six months—or the last year, really—I've been calling on the government to cut back spending to take the heat out of the economy. I said it in the budget week; I've been saying it for the last year. But the government has ignored those calls. Finally—belatedly, it seems—they might be trying to do something about it. But, unfortunately, the train has already left the station. It's going to be much harder to stop inflation now that the genie's out of the bottle. That's because, now, the Reserve Bank is warning that inflation is affecting services. It's not just Ukraine or the Middle East. These are just excuses from this government that has failed Australians over the past year. We now have a broader inflation problem because the government didn't have the courage to deal with the situation when it first emerged a year or so ago. Now, hopefully, the government will actually act. As I say, unfortunately, it will mean Australians pay more on their mortgages. They have to lift up. They have to tighten their belts because the government wouldn't tighten its belt. We'll see what the Australian people think about that come the next election. But we desperately need a government now which will tackle these issues, stop with the talking points, stop making excuses and do its job as a government.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister representing the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs (Senator Watt) to a question without notice I asked today relating to immigration detention.</para></quote>
<para>Indefinite immigration detention is grossly inhumane. It is massively harmful. It is profoundly damaging to mental and physical wellbeing. It constitutes cruel and unusual punishment. It is a form of torture. It has been a hallmark of Australia's immigration detention regime both here in Australia and offshore on places like Nauru and Manus Island for many, many decades. It has been one of the darkest and bloodiest chapters in our country's story. It was made a hallmark of our immigration system by the founding father of mandatory immigration detention in this country, former prime minister Paul Keating. Make no mistake—this is a design feature, and has been for decades, of our immigration detention regime. It hasn't been a bug in the system; it has been a deliberately designed bipartisan policy of cruelty. It has been enthusiastically embraced by the Labor and Liberal parties, the political duopoly in this country, for many decades. That's why I rise today, and I know I'm joined by the millions of Australians who do not support punishing innocent people, buoyed by the High Court decision yesterday, which reaffirms the principle that people should not be detained indefinitely in Australia's immigration detention regime. This decision has torn down a brutal policy edifice constructed and maintained by the major parties in this country over decades, a policy edifice that stands in stark contradiction to the values of our country.</para>
<para>In recent years, Australia has been a massive international outlier. We have been detaining people, on average, for over 700 days. There are people in our immigration detention system—they are still there, shamefully, today, post the High Court decision, I might add—who have been there for over a decade. What did we get from the minister today in response to the High Court decision? Not, 'We acknowledge the decision, and we will move urgently to comply with it.' We got a litany of excuses from Labor, including a refusal to rule out attempting to legislate its way around the High Court decision. The High Court stood up yesterday for humanity, for human rights, for common decency and for the principle that innocent people should not be arbitrarily punished by politicians. But the Labor Party today, the architects of mandatory immigration detention in this country all those decades ago, are scheming right now to work their way around the High Court decision. Well, I've got some advice for the Australian Labor Party: get with the program. The High Court decision was abundantly clear, and you have a responsibility to release not only the person who took that challenge to the High Court but everyone else currently detained in immigration detention who falls within the scope of that High Court ruling. Get to it, and release them urgently, because every day that goes past where you don't release those people is a day that you are illegally and unlawfully detaining those people. You need to move urgently. You need to respect the decision of the highest court in this land, based on the most important document in our current legal system, which is the Constitution of the country.</para>
<para>Colleagues, when we allow politicians to arbitrarily punish people and imprison them in a punitive way, we are on the pathway to tyranny. That is a dark path that we should not set foot on. Labor has to ensure that the High Court decision is respected and urgently release people from immigration detention in the scope of that decision.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral Matters Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>70</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the government response to the interim report of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters on its inquiry into the conduct of the 2022 federal election, and I seek leave to have the document incorporated into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Conduct of the 2022 federal election and other matters</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">Interim Report</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Introduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 19 June 2023, the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters (JSCEM) tabled a report titled <inline font-style="italic">Conduct of the 2022 </inline><inline font-style="italic">federal election and other matters</inline><inline font-style="italic">—</inline><inline font-style="italic">Interim Report</inline>    .(Interim Report).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government's formal response to the recommendations of the Interim Report follows below.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Government Response to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters report:    </para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Conduct of the 2022 federal election and other matters</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline> <inline font-style="italic">Interim Report</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Majority:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government lower the donation disclosure threshold to $1,000.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes the recommendation and welcomes the JSCEM Interim Report into the 2022 Federal Election.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair Kate Thwaites, together with all members of the committee, have worked diligently to provide a list of recommendations aimed at strengthening our democracy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has clear commitments to improved transparency and accountability across our electoral system and believes electoral reform should be undertaken in a consultative and bipartisan manner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government looks forward to engaging with colleagues across the parliament on these vital reforms, pending the committee's final report in 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government introduce 'real time' disclosure requirements for donations to political parties and candidates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government gives consideration to amending the definition of 'gift' in the Electoral Act to ensure it meets community expectations of transparency in political donations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government introduce donation caps for federal election donations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government introduce expenditure (also known as spending) caps for federal elections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that donation caps and expenditure caps apply to third parties and associated entities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government introduce a requirement that all political parties, members of Parliament, candidates, associated entities and third parties be required to establish a Commonwealth Campaign Account for the purpose of federal elections, to better allow for disclosure and monitoring.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government introduces a new system of administrative funding to recognise the increased compliance burden associated with a reformed system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government introduce a new system of increased public funding for parties and candidates, recognising the impact changes a reformed system will have on private funding in elections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 10</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Australian Government provide the Australian Electoral Commission with additional resources to support, implement and enforce these reforms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 11</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government develop legislation, or seek to amend the Commonwealth Electoral Act 1918, to provide for the introduction of measures to govern truth in political advertising, giving consideration to provisions in the Electoral Act 1985 (SA).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government consider the establishment of a division within the Australian Electoral Commission, based on the principles currently in place in South Australia, to administer truth in political advertising legislation, with regard to ensuring proper resourcing and the need to preserve the Commission's independence as the electoral administrator.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 13</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that, providing the Committee receives a reference to conduct a review of the next federal election, consideration of the new framework be included in terms of reference to the Committee. Such consideration could include the effectiveness of the revised arrangements, and identification of any further improvements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 14</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with the recommendation made in this Committee's Advisory report on the Referendum (Machinery Provisions) Amendment Bill 2022, the Committee recommends that the Australian Government strengthen the opportunities for electoral enfranchisement and participation to allow the Australian Electoral Commission to support increased enrolment and participation, particularly of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, including in remote communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 15</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Government resource the Australian Electoral Commission to work directly with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community organisations to increase Indigenous enrolment and participation, particularly in remote communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Minority report by Kate Chaney MP</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government introduces a system of more meaningful funding disclosure that will be readily available on the AEC Transparency Register by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">removing the opaque 'other receipts' category and replacing it with categories to separately identify event income, investment income, membership fees, political party transfers and public funding reimbursement;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">requiring the disclosure of the terms of the loans; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">making the AEC Transparency Register easy to use and searchable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In relation to transparency reforms, I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government develops legislation, or seeks to amend the Electoral Act 1918, to regulate lobbying including expanding the lobbyist register and requiring the publishing of ministerial diaries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In relation to reducing financial influence reforms, I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government implements any donation or spending caps informed by the principle of creating a level playing field for new entrants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to donation reforms, I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government seeks to amend the Electoral Act 1918 to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">prohibit political donations from government contractors;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">prohibit political donations from social harm industries; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">require corporate entities and unions to obtain member approval before making political donations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government seeks to amend the Electoral Act 1918 to enable an independent candidate to register an Independent Candidate Entity, to be treated the same way as a political party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government develops legislation, or seeks to amend the Electoral Act 1918, to prohibit government advertising from 2 years after an election until the next election except in the case of a national emergency or other compelling reason as determined by an independently constituted body.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government seeks to amend the Electoral Act 1918 to ensure the independence of the postal vote process by preventing parties or candidates from achieving an advantage through the process (e.g. by restricting the use and delivery of the AEC postal vote application form).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government amends the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth) to remove the exemption of a registered political party from the operation of the Privacy Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I propose a further recommendation in terms that—the Australian Government amends the Spam Act 2003 (Cth) to remove the exemption from the Spam Act of registered political parties to send unsolicited electronic messages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Minority Report by Senator David Pocock:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Increase the baseline level of representation for the ACT and NT in the Senate to as close to half the representation of States as possible. Given the current number of Senators in each State, this would see the ACT and the NT each have 6 Senators. Terms should increase to six years and commence on 1 July following the election in line with the states.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government should commission an independent body, such as the Australian Law Reform Commission, to develop recommendations to require full disclosure of all receipts above the threshold. Consideration should be given to removing the 'other receipts' category, disclosure of loans and the creation of an AEC Transparency Register, in accordance with Recommendation 1 made by the Member for Curtin, Kate Chaney MP in her Additional Comments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I support Recommendation 2 made by the Member for Curtin, Kate Chaney MP in her Additional Comments that the government should expand the lobbyist register to include in-house lobbyists. I further recommend that, if a lobbyist holds a sponsored pass that gives access to the Australian Parliament House, the details of the pass including the sponsoring MP or Senator are captured on the lobbyist register. Details of sponsored passes should also be listed on Parliamentarians profiles on the Australian Parliament House website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government should establish an independent body to manage and rule on truth in political advertising complaints. This body should be completely separate from the AEC, whose neutrality is a critical feature of our electoral architecture and must be maintained.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any system developed to regulate political donations and election spending must be developed by a non-partisan, independent body. The introduction of donation and spending caps has the potential to have a significant impact on the ability of independent candidates and micro parties to be elected to Parliament and as such the development of any system must be free of the undue political influence of incumbents.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dissenting report by Coalition members of the Committee:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend that the Electoral Act be amended to allow for the obligations of Registered Political Parties to be applied to independent candidates where the Australian Electoral Commissioner believes those candidates are conducting their activities in a manner consistent with a Registered Political Party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend that the Government give consideration to the adequacy of the current electoral regulatory framework to nominate as a candidate at a Commonwealth election, and in particular any measures that could be implemented to strengthen the integrity of the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend the pre-poll period be statutorily limited to be a maximum of one week prior to election day and that the Australian Electoral Commission provide parties and candidates with the earliest possible advice about prepoll locations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend that a new offence of 'electoral violence or intimidation' be added to the Electoral Act. This amendment is fundamental to address behaviour arising in an election such as violent, obscene, or discriminatory abuse, property damage, and stalking candidates or their supporters to intimidate them or make them feel unsafe.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend that the AEC return all electoral practises to pre-COVID standards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition members of the Committee recommend that vote counts after polling day for each electorate should be carried out in the electorate itself, not transported considerable distances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">See response to Recommendation 1 of the Majority report.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the document.</para></quote>
<para>Democracy is best when it's conducted in the open and when the community feels confident that politicians are accessible to everyone, not just those with big wallets. When people feel like their political system isn't working for them, they lose confidence in democracy itself. I've lost count of the number of times that I've spoken in this place about the erosion of public confidence in Australia's democracy. Every scandal, every report detailing millions in hidden money, every time a politician leaves parliament and walks straight into a cushy job in an industry they regulated mere moments ago—all of those things have led the community to believe that parliament doesn't work for them; it works for the big parties and career politicians. It has led them to believe that parliament doesn't represent the people; it represents political donors. Lobbyists prowl this building day and night. The fossil fuel industry buys politicians, Mr Clive Palmer spends more than a small country's GDP on monosyllabic billboards, and a referendum is poisoned with misinformation because we have no truth in political advertising laws yet.</para>
<para>The Greens have been campaigning for years to clean up politics and to make parliament better reflect the community that we're meant to represent. We've called to get big money out of politics, to expose hidden money, to prevent misleading campaigns, to remove barriers to running for election and to address the incumbency advantages that stack outcomes in favour of the two-party system. The 2022 election made it abundantly clear that the public wants those things too. We saw the lowest vote share for the big parties in 75 years, and we saw a parliament that's more diverse than ever. The two-party system is in terminal decline. The JSCEM process is a chance for genuine reform. Changes could be achieved that would allow voters to know who is funding campaigns and to stop one billionaire spending $100 million, which is 20 times the highest donor and almost double the public funding amount. Genuine reform will look at all forms of income to political parties. What's concerning today is a reference in the government's response that has just been tabled that says that reform should be undertaken 'in a bipartisan manner'. That shouts 'Labor-Liberal deal' to me, and it's not surprising that one of the few things they can agree on is rigging the system to secure their failing political support. If it seeks to lock in bipartisan power, and lock the Greens and the Independents out, then it won't be genuine reform: it will be a rort.</para>
<para>The public will not accept any attempts to rig the electoral funding system and make it easier for the big parties at the expense of other parties and candidates. A reform which limits donations for challengers to Labor and Liberal, whilst protecting their sources of income, will be seen for what it is: a complete stitch-up, and an undermining of our democracy and of our sense of fair play. The people will understand that secret sources of dark money, from big corporations and billionaires, are dodgy. They will rightly conclude that the reason that politicians in charge can't solve the problems that we face is that they've been bought off and they've sold out. Any proposal that means that, if you're already elected, you get a hefty envelope full of cash but, if you're trying to get elected, your donations are heavily restricted, is not a reform: it's a rort. And it's definitely a rort, and not a reform, to outlaw all kinds of grassroots funding while allowing Labor and the Liberals corporate and billionaire funding to flow through backroom loopholes. If there's one rule for the establishment—the bipartisan parties' establishment, with payments via slush funds or business forum memberships or 'cash for access' dinners—and another rule for everyone else, then it's a rort and not a reform. Any reform that means a corporation can continue to buy five $10,000 tickets to a Labor or Liberal dinner party without that being considered a donation is a rort and not a reform.</para>
<para>The Greens are up for genuine election reform, but teaming up to do a bipartisan deal would be an attack on representative democracy. We'll wait for more information and for the government to decide which way it wants to go: bipartisan backroom deals or genuine multipartisan improvements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to speak to the Special Minister of State's tabling of the Australian government's response to the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters report <inline font-style="italic">Conduct of the 2022 federa</inline><inline font-style="italic">l e</inline><inline font-style="italic">lection and other matters: interim report</inline>. I am also privileged to be a member of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, alongside my fellow South Australian Senator Marielle Smith, and I know that we both see this as a deeply important part of our work. The integrity of our electoral system is critical to a functioning democracy, and we've spent the last 12 months looking in depth at the issues that are facing our electoral system and the challenges that we all know are there but which some people refuse to accept are there.</para>
<para>One of the acute lessons that we are learning in this world is that the democracy that so many of us have enjoyed cannot be taken for granted. Our democracy is fragile. We have to protect it. We have to make sure that this is not just something that we set and forget. We must review after every election and learn the lessons of what has occurred. Democracy is built on trust—trust in institutions, trust in information and trust in our political structures—and we know that is being challenged. In a world where anyone can post for free on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, X, or whatever platforms are coming or going on the day, our challenge is to ensure a well-informed electorate. It is a far cry from the world that we were living in, say, 30 years ago or even 20 years ago, when information was a lot less prevalent but usually a little bit more targeted or controlled. What we are seeing now is that, with various algorithms and structures, all sorts of information circulates, and we need to ensure that that information is informing our electorates and that people are getting the information they need to understand how our democracy works, what various political parties or individuals are putting forward, and what they are offering for people to vote for.</para>
<para>The increased accessibility that we've seen can also be a really good thing. Having broader access to information can be excellent. But we do need some control. We do need some balances and checks to make sure that the information out there is critical and that it is relevant. One of the recommendations that the interim report put forward was on truth in political advertising. What we need to ensure is that people are never targeted in such a manner as to provide them with incorrect information or divert them from truth, reality or broader access to information. As a mature democracy, we have a role to play in countering any misinformation that may occur.</para>
<para>As South Australians, my colleague Senator Marielle Smith and I are very used to this, because South Australia has had truth-in-political-advertising laws since 1984, and the world has not ended. The sky did not fall in.</para>
<para>Despite all the clucking noises about how you can't do this and why you can't do this, you absolutely can put in place structures to deal with incorrect electoral information.</para>
<para>The Electoral Commission in South Australia can act on any material brought to their attention that contains a statement that's purported to be fact but is both misleading and inaccurate. They require a referral and then they can investigate where the reality sits. It's quite simple, it's quite straightforward, and, like I say, it has worked in South Australia for a considerable period of time. There are two key aspects to this. One is that the onus is on the complainant. Somebody has to put forward a complaint. It is not for the Electoral Commission to scan every ounce of material, which would be an epic task. It does shift the burden of the resources primarily to the people who wish to monitor these things—predominantly political parties, I would say—who then put in a complaint, which is then investigated. For a statement to be a breach, it must have been purported to be fact. There is no impact on statements of opinion or predictions of what might happen; it's just whether you're purporting something is fact when indeed it is not.</para>
<para>The second aspect is that the penalty is corrective. It places a burden on whoever provided the misinformation to correct it. In reality, it is a real disincentive. If you've sent 50,000 flyers out to the electorate with intentionally incorrect information on them—not an opinion but an incorrect 'fact'—you then have to send out another 50,000 to correct it. That's a huge disincentive, and we know from our experience in South Australia that it works. It's a huge disincentive and stops an enormous amount of bad behaviour. As I said before, the sky hasn't fallen in. We do have a thriving and healthy democracy and it cannot be hijacked by harmful behaviour.</para>
<para>One of the key recommendations in the interim report is to deal with this matter on a federal basis. I think I speak for the South Australians who have experienced this system when I say we know it can work. I'm really looking forward to seeing the final report released and seeing the government's response to it. I would like to take this opportunity to recognise that the Special Minister of State, Senator Don Farrell, has spent many, many years on improving our democracy, our system of governance, and working towards the most robust democratic process that we can possibly find to run elections in this country.</para>
<para>Obviously, that's not the only thing in the report. The report deals with a whole range of issues around donations and caps that have been discussed for years. It's about time something was done about them. One issue we face is the difference between an electorate voting on the basis of their beliefs and the constructs they believe someone is going to bring forward as their representative—something they believe in and can get alongside—and the buying of votes. There have been many media stories and disclosures about how much money was spent on the last election—how much money various individuals donated. The concept of real-time donation disclosure is about seeing how many millions of dollars person X has donated to party X or how many millions individual A has donated to individual B so that there's clarity and you understand exactly what's going on: who's funding what. What is it that you are seeing? Are you seeing the ideas of an individual, are you seeing the ideas of a party, or are you seeing what can be bought with the cold, hard cash of a wealthy person or wealthy corporation?</para>
<para>I am very much looking forward to the final report of JSCEM and the government's response. I commend you to read the report. It is well worth it. It is very informative. We must protect our democracy and that includes improving our electoral system and working towards the most balanced and fair system that we can possibly achieve.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the beginning I want to associate myself in the strongest terms with my good friend Senator Karen Grogan's extensive contribution to this debate, particularly her comments regarding the electoral system reforms made in South Australia and the impact of those reforms on transparency, truth in our political process and strengthening the great democracy that does exist in our home state of South Australia. It has been a privilege to work with you on this committee, Senator Grogan.</para>
<para>As a proud member of the federal parliament's Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters I'm really pleased to be speaking on the interim report and, indeed, on the tabled government response to it. I kick off my comments by acknowledging the fantastic work of the Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters, the member for Jagajaga, Kate Thwaites MP. She has shown tremendous leadership in our committee inquiry. She has spent many hours fine-tuning what I think is a very good interim report. Our inquiry received nearly 1,500 submissions and to date the committee has held 12 public hearings around Australia. I also take this opportunity to thank everyone who took the time to engage and participate in our committee's work. Everyone who contributed has helped inform the report and helped inform the resulting 15 recommendations made by our committee in the interim report.</para>
<para>The interim report came from a request in July 2022 from the Special Minister of State, who asked us to commence an inquiry into the election and related matters and into our electoral system. The terms of reference were extensive. We were asked to look at reforms to political donation laws, reforms to funding of elections, truth in political advertising, encouraging increased electoral participation and enfranchisement of First Nations people, the potential for the creation of a single national electoral roll, other ways to increase electoral participation and enfranchisement more generally, and proportional representation of the states and territories in the parliament in the context of the democratic principle of one vote, one value.</para>
<para>The interim report doesn't go to all of those terms of reference. Indeed, we looked at only terms of reference (a) to (d)—considering reforms to donation laws and the funding of elections, truth in political advertising laws, and encouraging increased electoral participation and lifting the enfranchisement of First Nations people. Whilst our final report will revisit many of these matters, it will also provide more detailed consideration of terms of reference (e) to (g).</para>
<para>There has been much debate in recent months—and, indeed, in recent years—about the state of our democracy. Whether it comes to political donations, truth in political advertising or the need for modernisation in our electoral system, it is clear that there is significant and substantial work to do to strengthen both our democracy and the institutions within it. These debates of course aren't just limited to here in Australia. These are debates being had right across the world, right across our globe. We in Australia are lucky to live in a democracy like we do here, but our democracy was never intended to be static. We must always be concerned with the business of strengthening it and we must always be concerned with the business of defending it when it comes under attack from those who don't share our democratic values and ideas.</para>
<para>I will say that transparency is absolutely one of those values.</para>
<para>In the great Australian Labor Party we have a proud history of electoral reform, and we have a strong commitment to transparency and accountability across our democratic system. It was the Hawke Labor government that was the first to introduce a donations disclosure regime in the 1980s, ensuring that Australians could see who was donating to their elected representatives. It was a really important measure to make our democracy more transparent and to make that information more transparent to the Australian people within that democracy. But then we saw the coalition, under John Howard, seek to diminish this transparency. They lifted the threshold for disclosure so that only larger donations were disclosed. I remember when they did this. I was a student at the Australian National University studying political science. I remember what a significant change to the very value of transparency within our democracy this was and the many papers written on this across that university and other institutions, because it really did represent such a significant change and a significant lowering of transparency, with no clear value to the democratic process.</para>
<para>But Labor is committed to electoral reform. We believe in improving transparency. We believe in increased accountability, and, of course, we believe in fairness in our democracy and across all other levels of government and public policy. Over the course of six years in opposition, the now Special Minister of State—another good South Australian—Senator Don Farrell, introduced several bills into the Senate to improve our electoral system, including increased transparency of political donations. The Special Minister of State has been clear about his intention to pursue long-overdue reforms in this term of the Albanese Labor government.</para>
<para>As I noted earlier, this report puts forward a set of 15 broad recommendations for change. These recommendations include caps on campaigning, donations and spending. I think it's really important to note that, in relation to political donations and electoral expenditure, we heard from the many submitters to our inquiry the importance of examining key issues around transparency and integrity. We heard about the influence of big money and what submitters saw as an electoral arms race. Submitters broadly called for donation reform, including by way of caps, and suggested that there has been general public acceptance for a number of years which warranted change at the federal level. In that, I refer to the debates that have been going on for many, many years about the need to increase transparency and strengthen our institutions, and I'm very proud that our committee report has gone to these issues.</para>
<para>Our committee has recommended a much lower threshold for declaring donations and reporting of donations in real time. It's an important step forward after the coalition's significant step back. Specifically, that recommendation reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government lower the donation disclosure threshold to $1,000.</para></quote>
<para>Our committee was of the view that this amount would ensure a robust level of transparency without discouraging the participation of members of the public in local activities, and it would also broadly align Commonwealth laws. Importantly, these donations and spending caps are as applicable to political parties as they are to third parties, because we have seen in recent times the influence of big donors and big money in elections not just here in Australia but also overseas. Knowing who is bankrolling campaigns and political candidates is absolutely fundamental to our democracy and fundamental to transparency—that absolutely critical value at the heart of our democracy and our institutions. Lowering that threshold, returning it to $1,000, would give voters a much better idea about who's supporting a political candidate, and combining reducing that threshold with real-time disclosures would allow voters to know who is backing candidates and would significantly improve transparency in our democracy and in our elections. It's a really important principle.</para>
<para>When it comes to real-time disclosure, the committee recommended that the Australian government introduce real-time disclosure requirements for donations to political parties and candidates.</para>
<para>The report noted that this would require additional administrative time and resources. However, many submitters recognised that reducing the disclosure period would represent a really important development for improving transparency within our democracy. We know that participation in our democracy shouldn't depend on your own personal wealth or the wealth of your backers and your donors. It should be about your ideas, it should be about your policies and it should be about your values. As a minimum, we should all be able to agree that Australians, regardless of their own financial background, should be able to stand for our parliaments and stand for high office. What we don't want to see an electoral system where expenditure by certain individuals can unduly influence our election results. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the interim report that's being discussed. I was moved to speak because I listened to some of the contributions here today, and I do have some sympathy for truth in political advertising. One of the reasons I have sympathy is the amount of time I spent on prepoll at the last federal election listening to Greens volunteers handing out election material saying their election promises were fully costed and funded. I sat on prepoll listening to them, 'Our promise is free dental care, free this, free that, fully funded, fully costed.' What did we find out? There was no truth in political advertising there because the Parliamentary Budget Office, an independent agency that sits within this parliament, actually costed the Greens's policies after the last federal election and found that they would have generated an aggregate fiscal balance through the forward estimates of negative $260-plus billion.</para>
<para>The Parliamentary Budget Office fully costed free dental care, free this, free that, all sorts of promises made by the Australian Greens—no responsibility, no accountability because they're not a party of government. They promised the world, represented that it was fully funded and fully costed, and the Parliamentary Budget Office—unfortunately, after the election—produced a report that the aggregate black hole that would have been produced by implementation of the Greens's policies was north of negative $260 billion. The Australian Greens have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. They have no credibility when they talk about truth in political advertising. Judge them by their deeds, not their words. And when you judge them by their deeds, have a look at the independent analysis of the Parliamentary Budget Office, a minus $260 billion black hole if the Greens's policies were implemented in Australia. It would have caused an economic catastrophe. They promise the world, they come in here and provide us their platitudes about truth in political advertising, but when you look at the detail, you look at the actual evidence, the independent Parliamentary Budget Office calculated a fiscal negative balance in aggregate north of $260 billion if the Greens's promises, fully funded and costed, had been implemented. So much for truth in political advertising.</para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>79</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the respective chairs, I present additional information received by committees relating to the following estimates:</para>
<list>Community Affairs Legislation Committee—2022-23 Budget estimates (Supplementary)—Hansard record of proceedings, documents presented to the committee and additional information.</list>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>79</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to order and at the request of the chairs of the respective committees, I present reports on legislation from the Community Affairs Legislation Committee on the provisions of the Disability Services and Inclusion Bill 2023 and the Disability Services and Inclusion (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2023, and from the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee on the provisions of the Identity Verification Services Bill 2023 and the Identity Verification Services (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2023, together with accompanying documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I present the <inline font-style="italic">Delegated legislation monitor</inline> No. 13 of 2023 and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This report on the committee's consideration of 175 legislative instruments registered between 19 September and 30 October this year includes 152 disallowable instruments and 23 instruments exempt from disallowance. I'd first like to draw the chamber's attention to three instruments on which the committee had been engaging with the Minister for Education. These include the Australian Education Regulations 2023, the Higher Education Support (Other Grants) Amendment (National Priorities Pool Program and Regional Partnerships Project Pool Program) Guidelines 2023 and also the Australian National University (Governance) Statute 2023. These instruments determine arrangements for Commonwealth financial assistance to schools, clarifying how grants are to be paid under the National Priorities Pool Program, and provide for governance matters relating to the Australian National University.</para>
<para>The committee has corresponded with the minister about scrutiny issues relating to all of these instruments. These issues include the inclusion of broad discretionary powers, the availability of merits review and the adequacy of accompanying explanatory statements. The committee is pleased to report to this chamber that, in accordance with its requests, the minister has undertaken to update the explanatory statements to address the committee's concerns. On behalf of the committee, I thank the Minister for Education for his timely and constructive engagement about these matters and his undertakings to address the committee's concerns. In light of these ministerial undertakings, the committee has concluded its examination of the instruments and has resolved to withdraw the relevant notices of motion to disallow the instruments.</para>
<para>Finally, I would like to draw the chamber's attention to the Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage (Environment) Regulations 2023. This instrument raised a number of scrutiny concerns, including the inclusion of several no-invalidity clauses which have the potential to limit judicial review and the inclusion of strict liability offences. Noting the seriousness of no-invalidity clauses, the committee had sought the minister's further advice about whether the clauses can be removed, noting there are existing provisions that allow NOPSEMA to extend the time they have to make certain decisions. In the alternative to the clause being removed, the committee sought further justification as to why the clauses were necessary. In her response, the minister provided further explanation about why the clauses are necessary and appropriate, including that they serve as a safeguard for relevant titleholders who have already commenced activities based on proposals approved by NOPSEMA. The minister also advised that these provisions have been included in offshore environmental management regulations since 1999. The committee thanks the minister for her response, and, while the committee reiterates that no-invalidity clauses should be used only in exceptional circumstances, it understands the minister's justification.</para>
<para>The minister also undertook to amend the explanatory statement to include the information about how NOPSEMA calculates fees and about the review mechanisms available to address other concerns the committee had raised. The committee thanks the minister for her advice and welcomes the undertakings. In light of this, the committee resolved to conclude its examination of this instrument and to withdraw the notice of motion to disallow the instrument. With these comments and on behalf of the chair, Senator White, I commend the committee's <inline font-style="italic">Delegated </inline><inline font-style="italic">legislation monitor</inline> No. 13 to the chamber.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>80</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>GREEN () (): The <inline font-style="italic">Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority annual report 2022-23</inline> is a fantastic report. I'll get to the report in one second, but I want to give some context on the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority for any of those senators in the chamber or those listening at home who might not be aware that the authority was established many years ago. Actually, it was Prime Minister Gough Whitlam who stood in Cairns on 25 November 1974 to say that the Australian government would create a marine park based on the Great Barrier Reef in order to protect it from oil-drilling at the time.</para>
<para>So in 1974, Labor announced that they would establish the marine park and, all those years ago, it was because we wanted to protect it from one of the greatest challenges it was facing at the time, oil-drilling. We know now that the Great Barrier Reef continues to face challenges, including climate change and, again, it's a Labor government that's stepping up to protect the Great Barrier Reef. Gough Whitlam said at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We will take this action to protect an irreplaceable part of Australia's natural heritage. We are determined to safeguard the reef and ensure its survival. We will preserve it both for its intrinsic value and its importance to the tourist industry of Queensland.</para></quote>
<para>That's what we're doing today. It's detailed in this annual report, and I want to thank the reef authority for putting this together. It's a very detailed report that goes through a lot of the measures that are being put in place to make the reef more resilient to climate change in the face of this growing threat.</para>
<para>Of course, for those who think that this effort is disingenuous, climate change is dealt with on page 3 of the report. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Climate change remains the greatest threat to the Reef. It influences weather patterns, ocean temperatures, pH levels and currents, and intensifies the effects of other threats. Climate change is escalating, and the Reef is already experiencing the consequences. Our plan for managing the Reef under a changing climate … will reaffirm our commitment to addressing these impacts.</para></quote>
<para>It goes on to talk about a number of the measures that our government has supported and implemented when it comes to making the reef more resilient—managing threats like water quality, crown-of-thorns starfish and doing the hard work in researching how we can make the reef more resilient.</para>
<para>I'm glad and really pleased that the blueprint for resilience is being updated. We're working to update all the information in light of the new government's policies, which we know have been described by UNESCO as different as night is from day to those of the previous government. But when it comes to some of the measurements that we have put in place, I was particularly pleased to see the crown-of-thorns starfish program get a really big mention in this annual report. That's because it's so important in managing coral reefs in the Great Barrier Reef which are under threat from crown-of-thorns starfish.</para>
<para>In Cairns, back in August 2022, I was really pleased to announce that $164 million would be invested in the reef authority's crown-of-thorns starfish program, and I'm pleased to say that the annual report makes it clear that this a program that is achieving fantastic results. The target was to reach 87 per cent of actioned reefs. The result of the program was that they actually managed to reach 91 per cent of those reefs, and 1,374 cull sites were actioned during those culls. It's a nasty starfish. They have to get out there—it's a manual job—but these guys who are out there doing the hard work are supported by our government.</para>
<para>The other really important work that's referred to in the annual report is the remediation of the Douglas Shoal site. I wanted to mention this because in the year since the last annual report came out a lot of work has been done to restore that area. In December 2022, the reef authority contracted a local provider to clean up the shoal area, and the dredge vessel <inline font-style="italic">Gateway</inline> is scheduled to commence offshore remediation activities on the shoal in spring 2023. The project will remediate critical habitat in the reef damaged by the grounding of the <inline font-style="italic">Shen Neng 1</inline> and demonstrate Australia's commitment to holding to account those who damage our natural environment. It's an incredibly important part of our program.</para>
<para>There are so many things that I could say about this report, but there is one thing in particular I want to mention. The annual report is always good fodder for Senate estimates, but, very importantly, if you do manage to pick this up, the reef authority employs 257 people, many of them in regional Queensland, in Townsville. They are located in North Queensland, and I'm proud of every single one of them. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>81</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Middle East</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I table a non-conforming petition from over 700 members of the Jewish community calling for a ceasefire in Gaza.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>81</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to briefly—and I emphasise that, because we seem to want to move on—take note of the Export Control Act report on livestock mortalities. This is a regular reporting requirement of the livestock industry, and it's something that I have spoken of in this chamber a number of times. But I just want, as we continue the debate on the ban on the live export of sheep, to point out the remarkable achievements of that industry in improving mortality rates not just over the last couple of year but consistently over a time period.</para>
<para>The mortality rates revealed in this documentation are, for cattle, 0.06 per cent and, for sheep, 0.14 per cent. When you consider that for livestock, generally speaking, on a rule-of-thumb basis in farming you use about a four-to-one or five-to-one ratio, sheep producers are actually achieving extraordinarily good outcomes on the back of significant policy change. This is not an industry that sat on its hands and just said, 'There's nothing we can do in the face of a desire from certain parts of the community to see change.' It has actually changed significantly. The industry itself took the decision to stop shipping during the northern summer months, which were, of course, the most high-risk months. That was then codified by government, but the fact is that it was the industry that voluntarily put that moratorium in place. The industry also went along with the ESCAS, even though it was a regulatory imposition that resulted in lower numbers of livestock leaving this country. They went along with that because they understood that it was necessary in order to preserve their industry. So this is an industry that, in the face of some public concern, has actually undertaken significant reform on its own. They've actually changed the way they do business and, in doing so, they have achieved record-low mortality rates.</para>
<para>Mortality rates aren't the only measure of animal welfare, and I've said that before in this place a number of times. Probably the best measure of animal welfare is whether or not stock gain weight on board ship. Everyone who is involved in animal husbandry knows that stressed animals do not gain weight; they lose weight. The consistent performance data from live export ships is that those animals either stay at the same weight or slightly gain weight during the voyage. So this mortality information should not be taken just on its own, and I'd encourage all Australians out there to look at the work being done by the Livestock Collective, and particularly the Sheep Collective, on the way the supply chain in live animal exports, particularly live sheep exports, works in practice. They've got footage from on board the ship. They've got footage from within the feedlots. They show you what really happens, and from that people can then make an informed decision. If they were making a decision based on science and evidence, they would know that what this Labor government is doing in seeking to ban the live export of sheep is against all science and all evidence. All science and all evidence points to the fact that this industry has changed, is on a sustainable footing, does have animal welfare at the heart of it and is a part of our farming system that should continue. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Institute of Family Studies, Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the annual report of the Australian Institute of Family Studies and the first annual report of the Domestic, Family and Sexual Violence Commission. Both the Australian Institute of Family Studies and the Domestic and Family Sexual Violence Commissioner are undertaking work to end the scourge of domestic, family and sexual violence, work that is inseparable from the work of all governments, policymakers, service providers and Australians. Addressing all forms of violence is a national priority, so the evidence of greater priority in some areas of need is inescapable and irrefutable. The evidence is there about areas of particular need. Domestic violence rates in the Northern Territory are seven times higher than the national average. More than half of the prisoners in the Northern Territory jails are there for domestic violence offences, and, in their wake, there are often already traumatised, vulnerable families.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister was asked in Darwin last Saturday if his government would change the structure of federal domestic violence funding, which is currently based on population rather than demand, to needs based funding. The PM's answer: 'Funding announcements would have to wait until the May 2024 budget,' as if money is the single answer. PM, accountability is personal accountability, organisational accountability and leadership accountability. There is a case for special attention in the Northern Territory because women, children and the elderly experience higher rates of DV than anywhere else. The reporting by victim-survivors is low; therefore, what data is available doesn't show the true extent.</para>
<para>Opposition leader Peter Dutton and shadow minister for Indigenous Australians Senator Jacinta Nampijinpa Price are right to focus on the areas of greatest need. The coalition's call for an audit of Indigenous-specific funding is based on evidence. An audit would identify delivery and progress gaps in programs for Indigenous Australians and shine the spotlight on everyone in the service delivery supply chain. For the most vulnerable children and for adults abused, a royal commission into child sexual abuse is necessary to focus on solutions and on improving their lives. The need cannot be in dispute but your will to close the gap is.</para>
<para>One year ago, we were told there was a 10-year national plan with an ambition of ending domestic violence within a generation. From there, there were two national action plans. If you want to end violence within a generation, common sense and evidence suggest the greatest impact will come from responding to children, those already in prison and the most vulnerable, as well as those identifying and escaping domestic violence, and those who identify escalating behaviour of concern. Without taking from frontline services, if you really want to stop intergenerational impacts then prevention and early intervention must be given greater focus.</para>
<para>More than 58 women have been killed in male-perpetrated violence in 44 weeks in Australia, and six women were killed in 10 days last month. There are also the lifelong consequences for loved ones.</para>
<para>In Darwin, where the PM flew in on his way to yet another foreign destination, the largest-ever coronial inquiry into the deaths of four Northern Territory women is hearing harrowing evidence of systemic issues surrounding family violence. And that is being heard as we speak today.</para>
<para>Sure, DV knows no boundaries, but respond in greater measure to where the evidence points you. Recent estimates hearings confirmed your election announcements are not necessarily outcomes. On top of your claims for cheaper mortgages, cheaper power that have not materialised, the ever-increasing working poor, there's your own election promise of 500 new frontline workers for the DV and family violence sector. We know that at 12 months not one of your promised front-line workers was in place, and we won't know how many are in place until reporting in early 2024. Australian taxpayers saw you spend $450 million on your failed referendum. Imagine if you spent that instead on family violence or on much-needed emergency housing for those fleeing.</para>
<para>November 25 kicks off 16 Days of Activism against Gender-Based Violence, an annual international campaign for the elimination of violence against women. Every bit counts. Every action matters. To create safer communities, action—not announcements—will speak louder than words. Accountability, not announcements, will speak louder than words. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia's Disaster Resilience Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>83</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the interim report of the Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience. Since the select committee was established in November last year, we have had the privilege of hearing responses from recovery agencies, unions, peak bodies, charities, state and territory governments, local councils and disaster affected communities across Australia. I'd like to extend my thanks to our chair, Jacqui Lambie, to my fellow committee members and to all those who've shared evidence with us to date through 16 hearings and 145 submissions that we've received. Your contributions have delivered a great deal of insight and have been invaluable to the committee's considerations. I'd particularly like to acknowledge the members of disaster affected communities who have taken the time and effort to share their stories and personal reflections with us, despite the challenges they continue to face, and also the frontline responders and Defence personnel we've heard from, whose experience and expertise have been incredibly helpful to the committee and whom I also want to thank for their ongoing service to Australia and their dedication to our country.</para>
<para>One of the groups that gave evidence, among many that are very much worth noting, is the Young Change Agents, whom we heard from at a hearing in Ballina. When the select committee travelled to the Northern Rivers in June, we had the privilege of meeting with Jali Tan Costello, a member of Young Change Agents from Lismore. Jali became involved in the Young Change Agents program following the major flooding in 2022, which devastated large areas of the community. Jali shared her stories as a student, some of which I'll now read. Jali said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Last year my community and school experienced a catastrophic disaster that saw devastation throughout the district. After three days of being trapped on our property due to a landslide, I was able to help my family clear out my grandparents' home. This was physically productive; however, I was left feeling frustrated and disconnected from helping my broader community. However, programs of Young Change Agents offered me important opportunities to reconnect, activate my resilience and find purpose in my learning. As a class, our opinion was valued. We instigated change and our impact was far-reaching.</para></quote>
<para>Of course, Jali's story demonstrates the critical importance of engaging our community, children and young people in disaster risk reduction and recovery, particularly in response to natural hazards, before they become more frequent and intense due to the impacts of climate change.</para>
<para>Inquiries such as the Senate inquiry play an important role, and there are a series of other inquiries presently being carried out by the Albanese government, but I also want to make sure that people are aware there are a number of other important steps we're taking as a government. When it comes to Australia's disaster preparedness, response and recovery, the Albanese government is not sitting on its hands. We've rolled out the Disaster Ready Fund, which is providing up to $200 million per year for natural disaster resilience and risk reduction initiatives, and advanced nearly $1.8 billion in disaster payments to the states so that councils across Australia are able to fast-track local repair works.</para>
<para>Just today we announced more funding to help the Central West region of New South Wales recover from last year's devastating floods and build resilience for the future. The Albanese and Minns governments have committed a total of $100 million in joint funding to the Central West, where we've prioritised the most impacted local government areas of Cabonne, Parkes, Forbes and Lachlan. That includes $60 million for the Central West Recovery and Resilience Package to repair and replace critical community assets and public infrastructure and to provide legal aid assistance, and $40 million to deliver a resilient housing program for the Central West, with details of the program to be agreed following consultation with the local community—which is terribly appropriate.</para>
<para>It's important that these announcements are set in the context of other announcements we've made. These are important steps forward in making sure that we work together to continue to strengthen Australia's disaster preparedness, response and recovery. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Currency</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>84</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a document relating to the order for the production of documents concerning crypto asset secondary service providers.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>84</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Juvenile Detention</title>
          <page.no>84</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator Cox, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) commends the Australian Capital Territory Government's commitment to raising the age of criminal responsibility to 14;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) notes with concern the ongoing abuse of the rights of children in juvenile detention centres across the country; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Federal Attorney-General to coordinate a binding national justice reform strategy that includes raising the age of criminal responsibility across all states and territories to 14, justice reinvestment and diversion.</para></quote>
<para>This motion asks that the Senate, first of all, commend the ACT government's commitment to raising the age of criminal responsibility to 14. But it also seeks that the Senate note with concern the ongoing abuse of the rights of children in juvenile detention centres right across this country and call on the federal Attorney-General to coordinate a binding national justice reform strategy that includes raising the age of criminal responsibility across all states and territories to 14 as well as justice reinvestment and diversion. It's hard to imagine a more serious issue that has gripped this country than the crisis we've seen in juvenile detention centres, with thousands and thousands of children, tragically, so many of them First Nations children, being held in detention centres that are brutal, that are inhumane and that would seem to be designed to abuse their human rights. When jurisdictions like Queensland suspend their human rights act in order to keep First Nations kids in police watch houses, what should the federal government do? It shouldn't do what this government does, which is turn its face away from the issue, simply pretend it's a matter for Queensland to continue to flout international basic standards for the rights of the child and allow Queensland to continue to abuse hundreds and hundreds of kids.</para>
<para>If you want to be genuinely shocked, look at the appalling rise in the number of children kept in Queensland jails over the last decade. Ask yourself: should the federal government—should the federal Attorney-General—just avert their gaze and pretend that that's okay?</para>
<para>Of course he shouldn't, and of course the Commonwealth government should accept an obligation to step in and respect the rights of children not to be systemically abused like that.</para>
<para>If we cast our eyes—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In the context of all the discussions that occurred earlier today, I do just draw to your attention standing order 193(3), about offensive words or imputations of improper motives or reflections. That also includes the houses of parliament of states. Some of your comments about the actions of the Queensland parliament in suspending their human rights laws would go to that, so I just ask you to consider that as you continue your remarks.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. In casting our eyes to WA, we've seen repeated judgements from the Supreme Court of Western Australia about the unlawful detention regime in WA, where the WA government feels perfectly fine moving children into adult prisons in conditions we know will abuse their human rights. The WA government has been on notice now for over 12 months that the conditions of detention in Banksia and in prisons where children are held in WA—again, overwhelmingly First Nations children—are an abuse of the human rights of those children. We're talking about children, in some cases, as young as 10 years of age. Twice now the WA Supreme Court has pointed out the unlawfulness of the brutal detention regime for children in WA, and what has the WA government done? Nothing. It has permitted the abusive conditions to continue. In just the last few short weeks, we've seen that end in the ultimate tragedy: the death of a 16-year-old boy in a WA prison.</para>
<para>What will it take for the Attorney-General and the Albanese government to say, 'Enough's enough,' draw a line in the sand and say, 'There must be minimum national standards to protect children'? Who has the international obligation? It's the Commonwealth government that's entered into the international treaties. That's where the obligation lies, and they cannot avert their eyes when state after state—we could have another speech entirely devoted to the abuses in the Northern Territory in notorious institutions like Don Dale. We could look at the recent findings about the brutal, abusive detention in Tasmanian facilities. I know that in my home state of New South Wales—which, thankfully, has seen the number of children detained reduced over the last decade, pushing against the national trend—those institutions such as Reiby are abusing the rights of children as young as 10 years of age. What will it take for the federal Attorney-General and for the Albanese government to say, 'Enough's enough' and that they will implement national minimum standards?</para>
<para>This is a campaign that millions of Australians want to succeed. They want to see the minimum age of criminal responsibility raised to at least 14. I want to commend those brave First Nations grandmothers who have come out and done this work, the lawyer groups, the land councils—the people of goodwill across this country who want it to end. I can't make this contribution without acknowledging the courage of Sophie Trevitt, human rights lawyer, who I know my colleagues in this chamber knew closely and who devoted her life to this cause. In the name of Sophie Trevitt but more so in the name of all those kids who, as we debate this, are in a cell by themselves, facing a spit hood, facing isolation, taken from country, taken from family—in their name, let's raise the age.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would say at the outset that the government won't be supporting the proposition that's been advanced by Senator Shoebridge and Senator Cox, but I do think that it is good that these questions are brought here and that it is elevated to be the subject of discussion here. I do think that senators ought to spend some time on these questions. So, while we may not agree on our voting positions in relation to the proposition that has been advanced—and I want to make some comments about the government's broader approach here—I want there to be more discussion about these questions in this place. We should not be frightened of the debate.</para>
<para>Before I make my other comments, I do want to say that, while I didn't know Ms Trevitt, I was aware of her contribution. There are many people in the community of lawyers and there are many community activists who receive very little reward in terms of what they get paid, but there's an immense reward in terms of what they contribute and the sense of purpose that they bring to these questions. She was a leader amongst them, and her death was a very sad thing for that community of lawyers. You can't imagine the countless young people who that young woman would have supported.</para>
<para>It is true that every child—and somebody who is 10, 11, 12, 13 or 14 is a child—who is imprisoned represents a failure of all of us, not them. Let's leave it to the courts to sort out who's responsible for what and the levels of attributing personal responsibility—that's not what I mean. I mean, in terms of the social outcome here, there are very few good outcomes that flow from people who are imprisoned and particularly from young people who are imprisoned. We know that the outcomes from that are—there are people in the justice system who work very hard to try to get better outcomes. I'm thinking of workers in the technical education system, in TAFE, in New South Wales who work very hard to support young people in those institutions. But there are some pretty ordinary outcomes for young people. Too many of those young people are from an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander background. That is also the case. So the impact on that community and the impact that flows through the generations in that community is, of course, something that we should spend more time talking about in this place.</para>
<para>From the government's perspective, the Attorney-General and others will be engaging and listening and considering the direction of further reform in an area that's going to require a continued focus on reform and cooperation with the Attorney's colleagues at the state and territory level. I can say, on behalf of the government, that the government is committed to achieving targets 10 and 11 of the National Agreement on Closing the Gap, which do go to these questions: reducing the rate of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander young people in detention by at least 30 per cent by 2031 and reducing the rate of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander adult incarceration by 15 per cent by 2031.</para>
<para>The government committed $13½ million dollars in additional funding to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services to increase those important organisations' capacity to provide culturally-appropriate legal assistance in coronial inquiries and to establish real-time reporting of all deaths in custody to ensure accountability and transparency for all Australian governments. And it committed an unprecedented investment of $81½ million to establish a National Justice Reinvestment Program.</para>
<para>I do want to say in terms of the principles around justice reinvestment that the opportunities there are place based, regionally specific and culturally appropriate to deliver those services. I'm very proud of the government's investment in those services. Two pilots have been funded in Australia; they will have an impact and there will be lessons that can be learned from the application of those programs. I know this myself from my experience in watching, with awe, really, the leadership of people like Alistair Ferguson in Bourke with the Maranguka Justice Reinvestment Project there. That has had such a positive impact in the community. Every morning, representatives of the Aboriginal community in Bourke—of the Maranguka Tribal Council, in which Mr Ferguson has played a key role in bringing together; of the police and other emergency services; of housing services; and of the various health groups and schools all come together, voluntarily, in a program where they sort through and work out problems and issues that confront individual families and questions that deal with justice related issues.</para>
<para>And what have they produced? They do it every morning and every day they solve problems—five or six mornings a week. Week after week they do work that nobody ever sees outside that community, but they put the time in. And what do we see? That investment up front is supported, yes, by governments and also by some of the philanthropic organisations which are keen to support ways of improving justice outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities in regional Australia. It means that we see reduced reoffending. Putting the resources up-front is not just the right thing to do it's the economically rational thing to do. We get better outcomes in terms of lower spending, because it costs a lot of money to lock people up. We get a better outcome because there's less expense there, but the expenditure is produces a better outcome—a better outcome for the young people, in particular, and for their families. There's a better outcome in terms of domestic violence and all the other things that are associated with criminal offending. And there are better outcomes for the community in that town.</para>
<para>I know that it has been the subject of some controversy. I was disappointed to see that there was some recent criticism of it because, of course, the figures don't always improve. Sometimes they get worse because there's an ebb and flow in the kinds of things that drive criminal offending—all of the impacts that happen in communities. The lesson that I have learnt from watching is that, firstly, it's people like Ms Trevitt and Mr Ferguson, and thousands and thousands of others who put their heart and soul into these things, that make a difference. The second thing is that the approach by government matters—it really matters. Less sloganeering and more effort: really, people out in that community don't have much time for slogans.</para>
<para>The third thing is that we get better outcomes if we work together in those communities, accept responsibility and accept that, sometimes, things won't go perfectly. When you get a bad outcome, rather than point the finger and try and score points, what you do is rally around and try and work out how to get a better outcome. That is the kind of approach that the government will take. The government will work with all of the state and territory governments, and there is some dissonance and difference there. Senator Shoebridge has pointed to some of those issues. There are differences between the state governments. The government will work with the state governments to deliver a better outcome. All of those forums—the Standing Council of Attorneys-General, the Police Ministers Council and the Justice Policy Partnership—working with First Nations groups and representatives from the Coalition of Peaks is what will characterise the approach of the government in this area.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the many different people who make up our one Queensland community, I speak against Senator Shoebridge's motion endorsing the ACT's recent increase in the age of criminal responsibility from 10 years of age to 12 and then, in 2025, to 14. Care for children starts with love, and part of love is responsibility. It is not being kind to children to not be responsible. The Australian Capital Territory is not the only jurisdiction taking this action. The Northern Territory recently increased the age of criminal responsibility to 12. Tasmania increased the minimum age for detention to 14. For the Greens, age is a problematic concept. They just don't seem to understand that care involves responsibility. In a 'Greens land', a child of 13 cannot be held legally responsible for their actions. Yet a child that age can choose their gender, change their gender and read instruction manuals in adult sexual practices years before they are legally old enough to engage in that activity. Indeed, in 'Greens land', a child of any age can do those things. A 10-year-old can. An eight-year-old can.</para>
<para>It's perplexing to see the Greens suggesting a child under the age of 14 is not mature enough to be held accountable for their actions. This issue comes down to a simple legal principle: do they know the distinction between right and wrong, and can apply that distinction to their own actions? As long as there is no factor other than age that impacts on their capacity, they are criminally liable. Those factors could include autism, fetal alcohol syndrome or drugs. There's merit in the idea that a child of that age is better diverted than convicted. I'll say that again: there is merit in the idea that a child of that age is better diverted than convicted. I agree that diversion programs should be the first option for any child coming to the attention of the police or the courts. I have issue with children being held accountable for the sins of the parents, and so many of the children that come to the attention of law enforcement at this age are there because their parents have failed. There must be a point, though, where the person is responsible for their own actions. A young person can use a bad start as an excuse for the rest of their lives, or they can use a bad start as motivation to succeed. I'll say that again: a young person can use a bad start as an excuse for the rest of their lives, or they can use a bad start as motivation to succeed. This legislation allows the excuses. One Nation supports helping a child succeed.</para>
<para>Karly Warner, the CEO of the Aboriginal Legal Centre (NSW/ACT), made the following comment on the legislation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the extremely rare instances when a child does something seriously wrong, it's because they've been let down and need our help.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…    …    …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… by failing to raise the age to 14 … the [Australian] Government is failing Aboriginal children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aboriginal kids are over-represented at every stage of the system, from police to court to prison. The ACT imprisons Aboriginal children at 12 times the rate of non-Indigenous children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's Aboriginal kids—</para></quote>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>87</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Medicare</title>
          <page.no>87</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Our health system is critical. We should be able to rely on seeing a doctor, being able to get an appointment and, for those who cannot afford to pay, being bulk-billed for that appointment. Yet we've seen 10 years of extreme neglect, including a disastrous policy from the previous government to freeze the Medicare rebate, which has left Australians paying more and waiting longer. Doctors, particularly those in regional areas, were left in a situation where it was no longer viable to keep going in their practices. The reduction in that rebate made a critical difference to their ability to stay afloat or not, so what they did was to turn away from bulk-billing. Many people across this country rely on bulk-billing to be able to get to the doctor and to afford the health services that they need. But in the face of not being able to viably keep their practices going, doctors just walked away from bulk-billing.</para>
<para>As those rates of bulk-billing declined—and they declined quite sharply—we started to hear more and more stories of people being unable to get an appointment at the doctor. We heard more stories of people being unable to actually register with a practice because the doctors were moving away from the regions, particularly. Many practices weren't able to replace the doctors in some of the metro areas, and so you couldn't get an appointment. New patients couldn't register with a GP service, and entire regions—I know certainly in South Australia—had no doctor, and the community was completely and utterly reliant on locum services. Locum services are an essential part of our system, but they do not provide you with continuity of care. Continuity of care is critical for long-term increases in primary health treatments. We've seen those situations get progressively worse—and I hear this from people in my duty electorate of Grey.</para>
<para>Last month, I took the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Mark Butler, out there to meet with some of the people that I talk to frequently. We met with some of the health services and some of the councils who do amazing work to encourage doctors, nurses and other health professionals to go and live in their communities. The Northern Eyre Peninsula Health Alliance, particularly, have done a spectacular job over the last number of years in trying to build up the health service across that region. They and many, many other councils in those areas have their innovative approaches to securing health services for their regions.</para>
<para>Last weekend we saw the largest investment in bulk-billing in the 40-year history of Medicare when we tripled the bulk-billing incentive for local GPs. We've heard from GPs that this is a game-changer, and we know that this will encourage them to go back to bulk-billing to take the pressure off those communities who have been left out of the system by not being able to access a bulk-billing service. It will go a long way to help those who are facing cost-of-living challenges, keeping more money in their pocket and giving them better access to affordable health care and affordable medical practices. On top of that investment, there's a whole range of other changes to our health system to strengthen Medicare and to open up access by making it more affordable and more accessible for Australians across the whole of this country to access the health care that they need and that they deserve.</para>
<para>Indeed, we have put $1½ billion in indexation payments to boost Medicare rebates across the board—again, to make it viable for doctors to be in regional and rural communities and to make it viable to recruit additional doctors to provide the services that our communities so desperately need. So I stand here so proud to be a member of a Labor government that is focused on health care, focused on our communities and focused on fairness.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Trafficking</title>
          <page.no>88</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, I rise to speak on a very significant global milestone in the fight against orphanage trafficking. Sometimes in this place, success can take many years, but, ultimately, it is worth the effort. Last month, I was greatly honoured to represent the Australian parliament at the 147th Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, which was held in Angola. There, the tumultuous world political climate and issues of today were very much evident, but two resolutions were passed at the assembly. I'm delighted to say that a resolution on orphanage trafficking was one of the two resolutions passed. I presented, as the IPU rapporteur, a resolution entitled 'Orphanage trafficking: The role of parliaments in reducing harm'. I'm incredibly proud that this comprehensive action plan was endorsed unanimously by all 180 national governments. As I said, it was one of only two resolutions that were passed. In fact, having had a look, I see that this is the very first global action plan on any form of child trafficking.</para>
<para>This journey started for me at the beginning of 2016, with the Save the Children trip to Cambodia. It was there that I learnt about this wicked practice of trafficking children into orphanages to profit from us. Because of the shock that I felt as a result of that, I came back here really determined to fight it. I was also shocked to find out how many good-hearted Australians from schools, service clubs and church groups either support as a volunteer, or donate to, these so-called orphanages. The fact is that today there are more people in slavery than at any time in human history. In fact, 50 million people are enslaved by others. Currently, 50 million are enslaved, and eight million of those 50 million are children, mostly with parents, who have been trafficked by recruiters—who often coerce their parents—into these residential facilities which, as I said, are often referred to as 'orphanages'.</para>
<para>Among these eight million children, between 80 and 90 per cent have parents but have been forcibly separated for the purpose of exploitation. We know that children raised in institutions experience profound attachment disorders and developmental setbacks, and that they struggle in their relationships as they grow older. But, in the case of these eight million children, as the proverb says, the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and it's actually the good intentions of Australians and people from so many other parts of the world. The sad truth is that the huge demand to assist orphaned children that has been created by charities and voluntourists far exceeds the natural supply globally of orphans. So this resolution is a very comprehensive approach to tackling, once and for all, this very unique form of 21st-century trafficking.</para>
<para>These successes are, of course, built on the collaboration of very many. While this has been a passionate endeavour of mine for many years, this successful resolution has been built on the work and the cooperation of many. I firstly thank most sincerely my parliamentary colleagues who joined me on the delegation in Angola: the Speaker, the Hon. Milton Dick; Senator Deb O'Neill, from this place; Warren Entsch; and Julian Hill. It was very heartening to receive their unqualified support for this motion, and I thank them most sincerely for that.</para>
<para>I'd also like to thank the parliament's IPU team, so admirably led by Jane Thomson and supported by Elise Williamson. They both worked tirelessly to support me and to make sure the resolution went through.</para>
<para>The passing of this resolution would not have been possible without the help of the Geneva based IPU team and also that of my long-term collaborators Kate van Doore and Rebecca Nhep and of Hopeland, Global Citizen and Anne Basham, an amazing woman who runs the Interparliamentary Taskforce on Human Trafficking. I also thank Stephen Ucembe, Parosha Chandran and many others for this— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Juvenile Detention</title>
          <page.no>88</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Children right across this country are being locked up in prisons and detention centres, despite all the evidence that shows that children's brains aren't in fact fully developed to form any type of criminal intent. The evidence shows also that throwing children into prison does nothing except put them on a pathway to spend more time behind bars as they get older. The research that I've done in this area is about the school-to-prison pipeline that we have built in this country.</para>
<para>We all know that this disproportionately impacts First Nations children. In 2022, on average, there were approximately 818 young people in detention on any one night. Seventy-eight per cent of those were unsentenced or on remand. That means that they have not been found guilty in a court of law. Fifty-six per cent of these kids are First Nations, despite First Nations kids making up just six per cent of the population between the ages of 10 and 17. My home state of Western Australia, shamefully, has the highest rate of First Nations children in detention, at 278.1 per 10,000 people, compared to just 9.4 per 10,000 for non-First Nations children. In the Northern Territory, the rate of First Nations people aged between 10 and 17 in detention was more than 30 times as high as for non-First Nations children: 232.1 per 10,000 and 6.6 per 10,000 respectively. This is increasing in every jurisdiction across Australia bar the ACT.</para>
<para>This year, the ACT Greens-Labor government passed a bill that would incrementally raise the age of criminal responsibility to 14 years. This is a small change that advocates have been calling for for years, and this will in fact bring the ACT in line with the recommendations from the Committee on the Rights of the Child, which recommended that all countries increase the minimum age for criminal responsibility to 14. I want to be really clear that this is a good move, and I commend the ACT government for taking this very overdue step. However, this is low-hanging fruit. This is, in fact, one of the easiest moves that governments right across this country can make. Of the 818 children that are in detention on an average night, 44 are aged between 10 and 13 years old. Whilst we absolutely need to raise the age of criminal responsibility because it's the right thing to do and in line with the neurological evidence, we also must aim higher. There is still a lot more that must be done, as we are still seeing kids aged 14 and older locked up if they are not rehabilitated. They come out more traumatised and more likely to reoffend.</para>
<para>Australia has one of the highest reoffending rates in the world. More than 60 per cent of the entire prison population have been previously incarcerated, and our system simply is not working. Yet we keep seeing the major parties take a tough-on-crime approach because it's electorally popular, but in fact it does not work, and we all know this in this place. These are kids. That's exactly what they are: they are kids. They are children. I think some correctional ministers in this country, specifically in my home state of Western Australia, need to be reminded of that. They are not 'cohorts'. They are not 'cases'. They are kids, and these kids are being put in appalling conditions. They are locked in cells for hours on end, they are sleeping on all fours because they are restrained, and there are unacceptable levels of self-harm and suicide attempts.</para>
<para>Over the past two years, there have been 500 instances of children attempting to take their own lives or, in fact, of self-harm. The WA Supreme Court ruled in July this year that kids at Banksia Hill, in Unit 18 are subjected to unlawful confinement on a frequent basis. Not only are these treatments morally wrong but they are found to be legally wrong as well. Justice Paul Tottle said in his judgement:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It has the capacity to cause immeasurable and lasting damage to an already psychologically vulnerable group.</para></quote>
<para>And yet the government in Western Australia, shamefully, continues these practices that the Supreme Court has ruled to be unlawful. In Townsville's Cleveland Youth Detention Centre, these kids are locked in solitary confinement for weeks at a time, with judges and youth workers saying that children leave the centre scarred, angry and in fact more likely to reoffend. So we must ask ourselves: what exactly are we trying to achieve here? Do governments want to ensure that there will always be a cohort to lock up? Is that the question in the front of our minds?</para>
<para>Recently in WA, we saw the tragic and preventable death of a 16-year-old young man named Cleveland Dodd, who was held on remand and took his own life. He was the first child to die in WA prisons. Cleveland told security on more than one occasion that he was going to do this, and officers were allegedly asleep when calls were first made. Other officers were not issued with radios to even call code red during the time of finding him. There are so many places where this went wrong in the system, and, ultimately, a child lost their life. I want to take this opportunity to publicly state my heartbreak for Cleveland's family and community, and send my love to them. I'm so sorry that this has happened to you and your family, and I'm so sorry that this system has failed you.</para>
<para>We need to take a different approach, because our children's lives are at stake. The federal government does have a role. It has the responsibility to step in and coordinate a justice reform strategy to ensure that we don't see another preventable tragedy like this happen again. It should never have happened in the first place. This justice reform strategy must include raising the age. But, as I have said, it's much bigger than that. The reform needs to ensure that across Australia we have justice systems that respect human rights and the humanity of detainees and, most importantly, actually address the complex trauma and needs that so many of these kids have.</para>
<para>Most people, especially kids, don't wake up one day and decide that they are going to go out and commit crime. There is so much at play that leads to people committing crimes. Justice reform isn't just about having some programs in prison. It's stopping people from actually getting there in the first place. It is about having affordable housing for people, accessible health care, employment programs, mental health support, keeping our kids in school and drug and alcohol programs. I could go on and on, but we all know that we want better outcomes; I think that is shared across this chamber.</para>
<para>We need to have diversionary programs set up right across this country. For example: when a 15-year-old First Nations kid commits an offence and is to go before a court, the judge could have the legislative authority to refer that child to a divisionary program where they can connect back to their culture, have counselling and get back on track. And this, in fact, works. It's been proven to work. It lowers rates of reoffending and steps in before these kids are actually locked up.</para>
<para>We also need to use the billions of dollars that are spent on prisons and detention centres currently in these programs and to shift the power and the decision-making back into some of those First Nations communities. Those communities can then determine what some of those improved outcomes are for them and take a holistic approach to this. It would be based on evidence but also done in a culturally safe way. This may look different for each community, but its core elements are about early intervention and prevention.</para>
<para>As I've said many times in this place, the federal government controls the purse strings and has an oversight role. It's no longer acceptable for this government to wash its hands of the abhorrent treatment that children are currently being subjected to. There are wall-to-wall Labor governments in this country, particularly on the mainland. Now is the prime time for us to step up and make some real progress. It's time to show some leadership, take some action and actually stop our children from being harmed—and especially keep them out of lock-ups, prisons and detention centres.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment, Ukraine</title>
          <page.no>90</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>One of my jobs before I entered the Senate was as a training coordinator for the Australian Services Union. I also sat as a branch representative on two industry skills councils. These were a great forum for representatives of employers, employees, training providers and government to get together to identify areas of skills needs and how to address them. Sadly, the industry skills councils were abolished by the previous government, who seriously dropped the ball when it came to training Australians to fill areas of skills shortage. While our skilled migration program is an important measure for filling these gaps, it should only be a last resort.</para>
<para>The COVID pandemic highlighted how ill-equipped we were to address skills shortages within our domestic workforce. Labor committed to tackling the skills crisis, which was brought about by the previous government's neglect. A centrepiece of our work is the landmark five-year national skills agreement entered into with the states and territories. This agreement aligns the strategic priorities of states and territories, investing over $30 billion including $12.6 billion from the Australian government. Included in our funding commitment is $2.4 billion to support the states and territories to deliver skills for critical and emerging industries including clean energy, advanced manufacturing, care services and digital technology. There are also commitments to a strengthened VET sector supporting students from diverse backgrounds and closing the gap. New investments under the agreement are in addition to our commitment to deliver 300,000 fee-free TAFE places from 2024.</para>
<para>In almost a decade in power, the previous government failed to land a skills agreement with any of the states or territories. The skills landscape was the Wild West under the previous government. It was dominated by cuts, deregulation and short-term thinking. Finally, Australia has a government that puts our long-term skills needs front and centre.</para>
<para>In the last couple of minutes that I have tonight, I would like to speak briefly about Ukraine, especially in support for Ukraine. I do find it really disappointing that there are some in this place who have chosen to politicise the issue of Australia's support for Ukraine. It's important to put some facts on the table about Australia's commitment to Ukraine, which remains bipartisan, strong and unwavering. Since coming to office last year, the Albanese government has more than doubled the military contribution to Ukraine. The Australian government has committed more than $910 million to Ukraine, including more than $730 million in military assistance. We are one of the largest non-NATO military contributors. In addition to the 120 Bushmaster protected mobility vehicles already provided, a Royal Australian Air Force E-7A Wedgetail aircraft has recently deployed to Germany with 100 ADF personnel to protect the gateway of humanitarian aid and military assistance to Ukraine. In total, we have committed 218 vehicles, including 120 Bushmasters, as well as our anti-armour weapons, uncrewed aerial systems, critical 105-millimetre ammunition and one E-7A Wedgetail aircraft.</para>
<para>The third rotation of 70 Australian Defence Force personnel have recently finished training Ukrainian recruits in weapons handling and firing, rural and urban fighting, trench warfare and medical survival skills. This means Australia has now trained 1,150 Ukrainian defenders. However, we recognise, that the people of Ukraine do not just need military support. In a stark reminder of the critical importance of mental health support in Ukraine, this week, Senator Reynolds and I were honoured to host seven incredible brave Ukrainian mental health workers who are in Sydney for three months to undertake training in trauma management. The group consisted of four psychiatrists and three psychologists, who were able to come to Australia thanks to Australian fellowships bestowed by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. Despite the time difference, these people continue to do their work in Kyiv and Lviv through digital platforms, so they're learning about trauma support and still doing their work—that's commitment to the people of Ukraine and an amazing work ethic. Under the most tragic and devastating consequences of war is the toll it takes on mental health, not only for soldiers but civilians as well.</para>
<para>As one Ukrainian mental health worker pointed out: 'The entire nation of Ukraine is now suffering from PTSD as a result of this abhorrent war. But if we can restore the people, we will restore our nation.'</para>
<para>In addition to the $10 million contribution to the Ukrainian Humanitarian Fund announced by Australia in late June, I'm proud to be part of a government that continues to explore new ways to help heal and restore the lives of so many victims of Russia's brutal invasion.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, Reserve Bank of Australia</title>
          <page.no>91</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia is very, very well-served by its parliamentary democracy and those independent regulatory institutions that support the work of the parliament. Conscious of this, I rise this evening to add my voice to the concerns of colleagues and commentators alike regarding the government's proposed industrial relations legislation and its corrosive effect on some of the most important of these institutions. I do so particularly as the coalition spokesman for competition, noting at this early point the vital and independent role played by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, which is currently under the very credible leadership of Ms Cass-Gottlieb. As Robert Gottliebsen observed in The <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> newspaper this morning, significant powers would be removed from Ms Cass-Gottlieb under this proposed legislation and, in Gottliebsen's words:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… handed it to a body that has powers to mastermind collusion and price fixing as part of dramatic changes proposed for the transport industry, …</para></quote>
<para>Long and complex, the 784-page legislation is also full of concealed components.</para>
<para>When it comes to the ACCC and competition across our country, the greatest concern lies with the restoration of the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal, particularly with increased powers aimed at penalising independent truck drivers who are not beholden to the government's friends at the Transport Workers Union. You can be sure, of course, that it will go much further than that—deep into warehouses and, dare I say it, deep into airlines. Ms Cass-Gottlieb and the watchdog she leads police contracts and businesses in Australia, ensuring they are fair and free of collusion and other undue influences, and that they work for, not against, competition interests in Australia. Under the proposed industrial relations legislation, the ACCC regulation of commercial activities, as I've mentioned, will be replaced. Instead, these matters would become the ambit of bodies connected to the Fair Work Commission, the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal and, of course, the Transport Workers Union. Big business and unions, unchecked by the independent power of the ACCC, will be free to control process and strangle competition. The ACCC must be left in charge of this sector and allowed, in the words of a colleague of mine yesterday, to get on with its job.</para>
<para>As Robert Gottliebsen also pointed out in this morning's paper, the government's industrial relations legislation also threatens the position of the new governor of the Reserve Bank, Ms Michele Bullock. It can absolutely be expected that the proposed regulatory change will lift costs and, therefore, prices. And that, of course, is the root cause of inflation: rising costs and rising prices. Given the government's inability to manage inflation in this country, this leaves the new RBA governor and her colleagues, again, alone in their fight against higher inflation and its damaging effects on the economy. Remember that the RBA has said that Australians need to prepare for higher interest rates here for a much longer period of time because inflation is not being tackled seriously enough by the government.</para>
<para>Two prominent Australian leading, critical and independent institutions, the ACCC and the RBA, are under fresh attack by an unacceptably abrasive Albanese government, which has a reckless plan for industrial relations.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 17 : 59</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>