﻿
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2023-09-12</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 12 September 2023</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 12:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment Legislation Committee, Education and Employment References Committee, Implementation of the National Redress Scheme—Joint Committee, Trade and Investment Growth Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in order to provide for the consideration of the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023 and Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The order of the Senate of 19 June 2023 relating to the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related bills no longer apply, allowing them to be considered immediately, and the bills be called on as the next item of government business.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) On Tuesday, 12 September 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the routine of business from 6 pm be consideration of the bills (second reading speeches only); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the Senate adjourn without debate at the conclusion of the second reading debate, at 10 pm, or on the motion of a minister, whichever is earlier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) On Wednesday, 13 September 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the questions on all remaining stages of the bills be put at 11.45 am;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) paragraph (a) operate as a limitation of debate under standing order 142; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) divisions may take place between 12.15 pm and 2 pm for the purposes of the bills.</para></quote>
<para>I also move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Wong that the question be now put be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:06]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>27</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion in the name of Senator Gallagher, as moved by Senator Wong, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:10] <br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>35</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>27</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a statement of two minutes.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice standing in the name of the Leader of the Opposition, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from making a statement.</para></quote>
<para>What we have seen here is the government doing absolutely everything that they possibly can to deny this chamber the opportunity to even talk about a significant change to the order of proceedings for today, on the basis of the fact that they have eventually done a deal with the Greens to bring back on the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill and associated bills. I ask those up the other end of the chamber, the Greens, who have obviously done a deal with the government for this: Senator Shoebridge, what sorts of dirty deals in dark, smoke-filled rooms have been done that you're always so often—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, please resume your seat. I remind you to direct your comments to the chair. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, President. President, I ask through you: what sorts of dirty deals have been done in dark, smoke-filled rooms with the Greens to enable this bill to be brought back on? We know today that a billion dollars has been put on the table. That's on top of the $2 billion that was thrown around earlier this year in an attempt to try and get the Greens over the line so that they could move forward on this ill-conceived policy to try and deliver social and affordable housing in this country.</para>
<para>But what we really want to know is what other deals have been done with the Greens in these dirty, smoke filled rooms to enable this to come forward. We know from reading the paper this morning that the Greens have now come back and said that they will secure the fund, but, in the words of one of the Greens representatives in the other place: 'We will not stop fighting until there is a freeze on rent increases.' Following the decision this morning or over the last few days, what will we see turn up in MYEFO for this deal to be done between the Greens and the Labor Party? The question also has to be: 'What other deals are there?' I asked Senator Lambie. Obviously, she's done some sort of deal for her support. What are the deals? Have you managed to get a billion dollars out of the government for what you want—a billion dollars for Tasmania? I ask Senator Tyrrell that, as well. What did Senator Pocock get for his support for the Housing Affordability Future Fund? What deals have been done with Senator Hanson, Senator Babet and Senator Thorpe?</para>
<para>We come into this place to try to have open and transparent dialogue, and all we see is that, every time the government mucks up on its determination in relation to a policy, which we see time and time again. All they do is heap a whole heap of taxpayers' money at it. This is taxpayers' money that keeps getting thrown to buy the reparation of ill-conceived policy that you hadn't done your homework on when you put in the policy in the first place. Guess who ends up being the poor sucker to pay for this? It's the Australian taxpayer. If you'd done your homework in the first place, we would have had this housing affordability bill negotiated and consulted. You wouldn't have had to throw $3 billion at the Greens and God knows how much more that we don't even know about. Who knows what's hiding in MYEFO when it comes to decisions that have been made for you to try to buy a deal to try and make sure that your signature policy doesn't go down the tube because you didn't do the work, consultation or modelling. You have refused to be transparent about this. Once again, we see the Labor Party just saying: 'Taxpayers? Don't worry about you. You can pay to fix up the mess that you didn't make in the first place.'</para>
<para>But the greatest travesty that we see here is in spending all this money that you guys at the other end of the chamber—through you, Mr Deputy President—put through the dirty deals and the smoke filled rooms that Senator Shoebridge is so happy to come in here and talk about all the time. You're quite happy to go and do those dirty deals in smoke-filled rooms when it suits your purposes. But, at the end of the day, it doesn't change that this is really bad policy that has had to be funded by dirty deals in order to get through this place. It is still really bad policy, because this is financial engineering like you've seen before. This is to keep it off the balance sheet so you can get your budget surplus. There is no consideration whatsoever of the implications. Who knows whether any money will end up in social and affordable housing? The only money that will end up in social and affordable housing is the $3 billion that you've had to pay to get your policy out because you didn't do the homework on your policy in the first place.</para>
<para>We stand here today as a coalition who support good policy. We support policy that's transparent and uses the right financial levers and policies that have stood the test of time. The Minister for Finance should be absolutely ashamed that she has allowed this policy to go through. Not only is it $10 billion off the balance sheet that Australians will have to continue to pay the interest on forever, but they've had to fork out at least $3 billion to buy the support of those at the other end of the chamber. Australian taxpayers are the ones that pay for your bad policy.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make just a few points, starting with the lack of necessity of the debate that we are having. We manage conflict and division in this chamber sometimes by doing everything precisely by the rules, using each ounce of the standing orders, including standing order rights to seek to suspend standing orders. But we also manage conflict and division in this chamber through the extension of courtesies and through the ability to work across party lines and manage that conflict. In this instance, Senator Ruston rose to seek to make a two-minute statement about the motion that has just been considered. It's not exactly an unprecedented move. It's one that has been done time and time again and one where this government has extended that courtesy on occasion where something has happened. Where a motion has been rammed through the Senate without any debate, it's extended the courtesy for a two-minute statement to be made by the opposition. Certainly, the previous government did the same thing time and again, managing the conflict in a way to achieve a courteous outcome that also ensured the smooth running of the chamber. Instead, on this occasion, leave was denied, and here we are now having a debate over the suspension of standing orders on the question of Senator Ruston being able to make a two-minute statement.</para>
<para>We've now spent close to eight minutes on the two-minute statement question, and it is unnecessary. It was asked for; it was even foreshadowed and yet the leave was denied, unnecessarily so. Why did Senator Ruston want to make a two-minute statement? She wanted to make clear points about what the chamber had just done without any debate occurring. The chamber had just significantly varied its hours and applied yet another guillotine by this government to a significant piece of policy. So yet another guillotine was applied by the government that promised it would treat the chamber with respect. It promised there would be greater transparency and accountability from them, but, no, it's another guillotining of legislation.</para>
<para>It's not legislation that is inconsequential, but legislation that entails billions of dollars of taxpayer money being committed. And the remarkable thing is that the totality of those billions of dollars keeps changing, from when the legislation was first introduced to now when it is being considered. Firstly, we had the fund that was all off budget, nothing to see here, nothing was touching the budget. But then more money was found, because the pressure came from the Greens. A billion dollars was found; $2 billion was found; $3 billion was found over the space of some weeks and months. It's like an auction was going on, with the government responding to the Greens' demands to find the extra cash that they were demanding.</para>
<para>There's little detail as to how those billions of dollars are going to be spent—just a promise that the government will shovel it out the door somehow to some effect. There's been little discussion about the actual detail of the fund, the off-budget fund that's being established, notwithstanding the fact that the country has significant debts, and the money is simply money that maintains and adds to the type of debt that is carried forward. They're trying to establish this like the Future Fund was established by the Howard and Costello governments but forget that the government had eliminated all debt at the time the Future Fund was established.</para>
<para>We've been clear all along that this is bad policy. It's bad policy to establish more of these sorts of funds. It's bad policy, because it does nothing to actually address the questions of home ownership. It's bad policy, because, insofar as it actually generates additional housing, it's a drop in the ocean and is contradicted by the government's anti-competitive, anti-productivity industrial relations and other agendas that will simply see challenges in the housing market get worse. But the policy will be debated in the limited time the government has now allowed through its deal with the Greens. The real question is, through that debate, why the government felt the need at the outset to act without the basic courtesies of the Senate—to ignore those—and to provoke the quite unnecessary debate in terms of how this chamber operates.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to respond to a few of those comments. This chamber does work with courtesy extended and with agreement reached where appropriate. I had informed the Manager of Opposition Business that we would not be providing leave for a two-minute statement in a week when we are doing a number of other things to facilitate requests from the opposition. Let's just put that quite fairly on the record. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Gallagher that the question be put be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:28]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>25</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>PRESIDENT (): The question now is that the suspension motion moved by Senator Ruston be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:31]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>26</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>33</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>6</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023, Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>6</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6970" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6971" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6972" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>6</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tasmanians are struggling with the burden of rising housing costs. People are being forced to live in vans or are sleeping in the streets or in our parks because they cannot afford to rent or to buy their own home. And there aren't enough places where you can park your van for very long which don't cost you money.</para>
<para>I'm proud that the Albanese Labor government is actually working to lift people out of these dire situations and into good, decent housing. On this side, we fundamentally believe in the value of a home and what it means to someone who is struggling to get by. Housing is the very first step in establishing a good living, an education and a pathway to a decent career. How could you possibly imagine pulling yourself up by the bootstraps without basic shelter? How can children possibly realise their dreams when they cannot even study, eat or sleep under their own roof? As ridiculous as it sounds, those opposite somehow believe, ideologically, that the opportunities that social housing bring to our communities are meaningless. In other words, they think that vulnerable people should be left out to the wolves. It isn't just me saying this; all of us have witnessed how the coalition has abandoned those in need of housing time and time again. For a decade, those opposite dismantled social housing programs and refused to do a single thing to build more homes. That was 10 years of lost opportunity, 10 years of abandonment and 10 years of cruelty towards the most vulnerable Australians.</para>
<para>In Tasmania, the last remaining state Liberal government in this country stands—regrettably—even if it is very wobbly at the moment. They have dropped the ball on social housing—they have dropped the ball! Tasmanians have been left with over 4½ thousand applicants waiting to secure a home, according to recent data. The waitlist lasts up to 80.8 weeks—80.8 weeks! Many people now don't even bother to apply for a housing department home in my home state because they know they will be left in limbo year after year.</para>
<para>And it isn't just these numbers that are causing misery and despair in our communities in Tasmania and around the rest of the country; large numbers of vacant homes have been kept off the market by the state housing department in my home state of Tasmania. How cruel is that? We know how desperate people are and that we have the homeless living on the streets or in vans outside netball centres. This is going on in our country and what do the Liberals do? Absolutely nothing! What is even worse is that the Tasmanian Liberal senators who sit in this chamber never talk about homelessness. They never talk about housing and the crisis that we're facing right across the country, or even look at what's happening in our own backyard in Tasmania; they're only interested in other issues. The mentality of those on the other side is this: they say that if you just get out and have a go then you'll get somewhere. I can recall a former prime minister saying that, 'If you get out and have a go you will be able to do what you want to do.' Or, 'If you've got a rich parent they'll be able to buy you a house.' That's not the reality.</para>
<para>It has taken the Labor government to get a solution—along with negotiations with the Greens. Finally, I might add! The Greens have finally come to the party and actually put the Australian people before their own political agenda. They're all about slogans; Labor is about solutions. And we need a solution, because the fundamental right of every Australian is to have a secure home which they can afford. And if they can't do that then we should be doing what we can to provide it.</para>
<para>We know that in Tasmania there's a skills and workforce shortage, and people are accepting jobs in these areas where we desperately need their experience and their expertise, but they can't take up those jobs because they can't find a house. They can't find a house to rent and they certainly can't find a house that is affordable. The desperation of Tasmanians trying to find a home can be seen when looking at devastating short-stay figures. There are 4,255 dwellings in Tasmania that have been listed as short-stay rentals, including 365 in Launceston, where I live. I'm not opposed to short-stay accommodation, but what we desperately need is for the Tasmanian government to now work with the Albanese Labor government to ensure that we have more houses being built on the ground for social housing and that Tasmanians are no longer locked out of the opportunity of having a social house or being able to afford a house.</para>
<para>This is why our record investments in thousands of new social housing dwellings matter. They matter for families trying to house and feed their children, and they matter for finally reversing the Liberal neglect of these families at both state and federal level. With our population growing in Tasmania and expected to hit almost 600,000 by 2041, in the time going forward it will be essential to have those houses built on the ground. We need action now to ensure that people in Tasmania and around Australia have access to housing that is safe, secure and affordable. That's why it's so important that we finally got the Greens in the room. I want to pay full credit to Minister Julie Collins, a Tasmanian, for her hard work of being able to finally get the Greens to see that they should be putting Australians before themselves.</para>
<para>These bills will make a real difference in the lives of thousands of Tasmanians. The wait time for social housing in Tasmania has blown out because we simply do not have enough houses to meet the demand. In places around Australia that are facing the same problem, this suite of bills will help to combat this. The Labor government's housing reform agenda is ambitious, but we made a commitment at the election to address the dire housing crisis around Australia. The Housing Australia Future Fund Bill establishes a $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund to be invested by the Future Fund Board of Guardians to create returns which will fund affordable social housing. This fund will help to deliver 30,000 new social houses. It will provide $200 million over five years for housing in Indigenous communities, $100 million for housing for women and children impacted by domestic violence and women at risk of homelessness, and $30 million to build housing for veterans experiencing or at risk of homelessness. The Albanese government will deliver for Tasmanians with the Housing Australia Future Fund, which is set to deliver homes for vulnerable Tasmanians. This important investment is a long time coming, after 10 years of discussion, delay and lack of consultation by the former coalition government on social affordable housing. The changes announced will ensure all states and territories benefit from the government's housing agenda to put more roofs over people's heads.</para>
<para>Typically of the Tasmanian Liberal Senate team, as I said before, they have shown no interest whatsoever in ensuring that vulnerable Tasmanians have their needs met or in providing affordable or social housing for them. They have failed Tasmanians time and time again. We cannot forget that they had 10 years in government but what they have delivered for the Tasmanian community is more despair, more desperation and more people living on the streets and being homeless. That's what they have done, and they have been the star members of their 'no-alition' on this issue of housing affordability and social housing. It's a disgrace.</para>
<para>Housing Australia's investment mandate will ensure a minimum of 1,200 dwellings in each state and territory over the first five years of the Housing Australia Future Fund, which means Tasmania will receive its fair share under the government's commitment to build 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the fund's first five years. It is no time to complain about this historic reform. The Albanese government is getting on with the job of building social and affordable housing, because we know that too many Tasmanians and too many Australians are sleeping rough. And this is just the beginning. This will ensure that more people have a roof over their heads.</para>
<para>I thank all those who are supporting this bill today. Those opposite are still waiting, willing to see people go without a home, because of their DNA of 'You can do it; why don't you just go out and get a job like everyone else does?' And why do they say that? It's because they have no understanding of what it's like to struggle, to not be able to provide shelter for your family, to not be able to provide enough money at the end of the fortnight after you've got your social security benefit to buy a carton of milk for your kids. They don't know what it's like to say no when their kids can't go on a school camp. They have no understanding of the impact on children who are raised in poverty, in insecure living arrangements. That impact means that those children all too often miss out on days at school. They don't have a balanced, healthy diet. This all has an impact on the development of their brain. That's the real impact of the lack of social and affordable housing on our community.</para>
<para>We, as a rich nation, should not accept that. That is why we did the deal that had to be done with the Greens and the crossbench to help more Australians—more children, more women who are fleeing domestic violence and are at risk of homelessness. We know that the cohort of women aged 55 and older is the fastest-growing cohort of homeless people in this country, and we should be ashamed of that. We're a rich nation. We can do more and we must do more. It's time those on that side got out of the way and accepted the fact that this bill will change the lives of ordinary Australians—those who are struggling to make ends meet, those who can't afford to provide a home for their family. Put yourself in the shoes of a mother or father who can't provide that shelter for their children, or who have to farm their children off to relatives. Just think about those people. Stop for one minute and put yourself in those people's shoes. Maybe then you might decide to support these pieces of legislation.</para>
<para>But I somehow doubt it, because I think it's in their DNA, because they've always had a helping hand. They've come from very privileged lives. They have no understanding of what Australians are going through at this point in time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This debate on the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related legislation is an important opportunity for the chamber to consider a housing policy of the government. This is a housing policy that is designed, by the government for vested interests, to send more and more taxpayer funds to the people who need it the least, and that is the major donors and benefactors of the Labor Party. In particular, I want to single out the super funds, because they of course will be one of the major beneficiaries of this scheme.</para>
<para>The reason I call the government 'the government for vested interests' is that it is only able to get out of bed every day if it has something that it really wants to do for the unions or the big super funds. The idea that it's working for the typical worker is absolutely laughable. Every day we see the same old laundry list of issues—pattern bargaining, the abolition of labour hire, the covering up of payments from super funds to unions, and the transferring of more taxpayer support to super funds so they can own all the houses in Australia and then people can rent them back like serfs. Basically, every single policy of the government is infected with this disease. When you go into a street in any town or city in Australia, I think you will find that people are worried about mortgage costs. They're worried about rent costs. The government's priority to legislate the objective of superannuation is a good example of the government's vested interest because it is a twisted agenda. When you only see things through the commercial prism of your major donors and benefactors, you act in this way.</para>
<para>This bill is another example of this twisted approach to governing. It's not a government for all Australians; it's a government for vested interests. These are serious matters. I think the Darryl Kerrigan equation here is very apt and very good. Of course we want to see Australians be able to access a home. It is a key determinant as to whether or not a person will have a successful retirement. The reality is that, if you are a retired renter, you are going to have a more difficult retirement, so finding ways for people to get into the first-home market is important. It's also important that we do find ways to support renters. There are a lot of renters in Australia, and many people are happy renting, so we should have policies for prospective homebuyers, for homeowners—even when the bank owns most of their home—and to support renters.</para>
<para>Now, in relation to the housing problem we have, people are aware of the major problem the country has, which is a problem of supply. There have been many inquiries and many investigations. There have been many economic assessments done. It does come down to supply, and supply is particularly problematic when you are running a large migration program. Now, we have always competed for people and for capital, and I hope that we always will and that we will always be a country that supports migration. But we need to be a country that builds houses, and the most recent parliamentary enquiry, which did a deep dive—to use that dreadful Americanism—into housing was the House tax and revenue committee in the last parliament, which was chaired by Mr Jason Falinski. That recommended some quite clean and clear measures that could be adopted by governments. Recommendation 3 of that committee was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends that the Australian Government should institute a grant scheme that pays states and localities for delivering more housing supply and affordable housing.</para></quote>
<para>That's quite a good recommendation.</para>
<para>The Centre for Independent Studies has done some further investigation of these types of schemes and has looked into parts of the United States where there are incentives for localities which release more supply, release more land and also consider denser housing. Now, I understand the problem of nimbyism. It is very politically difficult for some people, but there are parts of our cities where more density is going to be essential if we are to meet the supply needs, because we are a highly urbanised population. Sure, there are many Australians who live in the bush and the regions, and I grew up in a regional community myself, but most Australians live in cities, and our cities are too spread out. The scourge of nimbyism is, I have to say, alive and well. It is a bipartisan problem. It is a wretched problem, and I believe that the national government is perhaps the only institution capable of solving it. I say that because I think that the national government can incentivise the states and local governments to act in the interests of the ratepayers and the taxpayers, who ultimately will need to see more dwellings built and for there to be more density.</para>
<para>That was a central model of an inquiry by the Standing Committee on Tax and Revenue, chaired by Jason Falinski, from just a couple of years ago. That inquiry cited the precedent of the National Competition Policy, which made payments to states for doing the right thing when it came to competition policy. We, the Liberal Party, are a federalist party. States have different approaches, and we respect that. Some states have more competitive, more dynamic economies; others have a greater concentration of state owned enterprises. That is something on which those individuals who live in those states can make a judgement about whether they come or whether they leave. Ultimately, I think this is where we will get to on housing—that states and localities which fail to deliver on housing will be less attractive places to live. That is a wretched problem on the supply side.</para>
<para>On the demand side—I referenced this in my opening comments—the government wants to enact this housing policy to provide tax incentives to super funds. The President of the Labor Party, Mr Swan, who is also the chairman of a big super fund, announced late last year that the Cbus Super fund would give $500 million of members' money to the HAFF scheme. According to documents released under freedom of information, we discovered that, whilst Mr Swan was promising $500 million of members' money, the Cbus fund was providing submissions to the Treasury department saying that the design of the HAFF scheme was fundamentally flawed and not appropriate for long-term investors.</para>
<para>This illustrates the massive conflict with the Labor Party's policy development. Their policies are not designed for people; they're designed for major institutions. The Cbus example, I think, is a very fine example. Of course, Cbus transfers $3 million or $4 million each and every year to the CFMMEU through inflated directors' fees. These figures are known because of AEC, Australian Electoral Commission, disclosures. believe there is a major conflict here, and it has been illustrated in this bill. Why would funds which already receive compulsorily $100 billion a year in mandatory contributions need further tax breaks? I mean, are we seriously saying that we want to have a system where super funds, which already receive over $100 billion a year in compulsory contributions, need more of our money through tax incentives?</para>
<para>The scheme is build to rent, so the funds will then own all the houses and would then rent the houses, apartments or flats back to people. So you would have a system where you totally overturn the notion of people owning a home. The super fund has your money because the government passed a law that says that you're not allowed to have all your money—it's got to go off to a super fund so they can charge high fees on it and send money off to banks and unions—and then, separately, they're also going to own your house. So we're living in a world that maybe Superman would have recognised—LexCorp or something—where basically four or five major super funds have all your money and they have your house. I think the facilitation of this idea is very dangerous.</para>
<para>I think the Cbus example is pertinent to the discussion. Why would the chairman of the fund, who's also the chairman of the Labor Party, be rushing out of the gates to commit $500 million of the members' money whilst we know that behind the scenes they had major reservations about the scheme's design? The FOI documents document in detail that the Cbus fund thought that it wasn't a good idea to design it this way. We are where we are. The government want to proceed with this particular bill after a protracted negotiation, as is their right.</para>
<para>This bill will do very little for first home buyers because first home buyers are facing a structural problem here, particularly millennials and zoomers. It is harder than ever to gather a deposit, and 10 or 11 per cent of people's money is now being sent off to these super funds—back to the super funds again—therefore, the task of pulling together a deposit is so much harder as a result. Any honest economist would say that turning that around is not on its own an entirely credible solution. It will definitely help some people if they can use their own money to buy a home. It won't be a silver bullet. We will still need to deal with the supply issue. The key policy solution that has been recommended by recent inquiries is that the Commonwealth would look to incentivise the states and local governments to release more land and to provide more density. Ultimately, that is the supply which is needed.</para>
<para>I certainly understand that there is a need for social housing—and we've always supported the role that social housing plays in our society—but most Australians have aspiration to own their own home, and the long-running, structural problem we now have is that millennials and gen Z's are very unlikely in some cases to ever get access to a first home. That has a cascading set of problems for that generation as they get older, because the way that the tax and social security systems work in this country, if you don't own a house and you are in retirement, you are going to have a much more difficult time than you otherwise would. Therefore, the key point here is that we should be doing everything we can to promote first home ownership—not ownership of all the houses by big super funds but ownership by the people. Everyone agrees that Darryl Kerrigan was absolutely accurate when he described a house as more than a home. That is why we have always believed in homeownership, because it has more than just a financial benefit. But the financial benefit can never be underestimated while we have a tax and social security system which discriminates in favour of homeowners. That is the reality. By giving up on housing policy—which is what this bill does—the government has decided to give up on millennials and gen Z 's and he is saying to them: 'Forget about ever having a house. The best thing we can do is to have the superfund own your house and rent it back to you like you're a serf.' I think it is a very disappointing outcome and will be voting against this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the housing bills—the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023 and the Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023. We're in a housing crisis, and I hope that's now abundantly clear to everyone in this chamber, as it has been abundantly clear to everyone in the community for quite some time now. Our party thinks that housing is a human right, yet we are facing staggering numbers of people without a home. The rates of homelessness are skyrocketing, the rates of rent rises are skyrocketing and, as we've just heard from the previous speaker, young people have given up hope of ever being able to own a home. They're now struggling to pay the rent, let alone to consider owning a home. We are in a full-blown housing crisis. We know that it is touching people that have previously not experienced such precariousness. We know that it's hurting single parents, women and children fleeing domestic violence, young people, older people and people on inadequate pensions. This crisis is touching so many people.</para>
<para>It's against this backdrop, I might add, that we have a $39 billion yearly commitment to retain the tax perks that go to property speculators and investors—$39 billion, just in this current financial year, that this government will continue to spend on people who have five, six, seven or 18 investment properties. I'm flagging that we will come for you on that issue. We maintain that that is a very poor spend that is actually worsening the housing crisis and clearly deepening the inequality in housing.</para>
<para>It was against this backdrop that about nine months ago the government proposed the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill, which we're coming back to debate today. The structure proposed by the government was not direct spending on housing, such as you would have for schools or hospitals. It was this complicated arrangement whereby a new body would gamble some money on the stock market and if that gamble paid off and there were some profits then some of that money, up to $500 million but not more, could be spent on housing. What a sham structure! It's exactly why the Greens said not only that this was inadequate but that it was a poorly designed process for funding what is a fundamental human right, which is the right to have a roof over your head.</para>
<para>So we held out and we pushed for more. We came under some fairly strong criticism for doing that, and not just from the people in this place. There were others who were urging us to just pass this bill. Certainly the crossbench were saying: 'Oh, this is a good start. Just get on with it.' Well, fast-forward nine months to yesterday, when the Greens were able to extract $3 billion in direct funding for social and affordable housing from this government as a result of our negotiations. That is tens of thousands of people who will now have a roof over their heads and would not have got that were it not for us having strong negotiations and holding the line for as long as we did. So I want to commend Greens leader Adam Bandt MP and our housing spokesperson, Max Chandler-Mather MP from my home state of Queensland, for driving what was a strong and powerful negotiation that has landed in a good place. We are proud that so many more people now will be able to have the benefit of a roof over their heads, which they would not have had we folded to the demands of some others that we simply wave through this inadequate piece of legislation.</para>
<para>So we now have an additional $3 billion of direct funding to go to build social and affordable housing. Of course, $2 billion of that was announced with the Social Housing Accelerator a couple of months back, and then just yesterday a further $1 billion was announced by the Prime Minister as a result of negotiation with the Greens. This is in addition, of course, to the agreement to have a minimum spend of $500 million from the Housing Australia Future Fund, even if the gamble on the stock market doesn't pay off for you that year. What we've really shown is that pressure works. We have secured an additional $3 billion for social and affordable homes, building thousands of homes for low-income renters, and we will now allow the HAFF to pass through the Senate this sitting week.</para>
<para>We always asked for two things. We asked for a decent amount of spend on social and affordable homes, and we've secured that: $3 billion. But we also asked for action to protect renters. Nationally, we have seen rents increase by 24 per cent in the last 12 months. That is astronomical. We are hearing so many anecdotes as we doorknock, from the legions of people that we've spoken with in recent months. There are many horror stories of people who might have been expecting a little bit of a rent increase but are now being hit with hundreds of dollars of rent increases by their landlords and who are simply not able to pay that increase. People are facing homelessness because of the profiteering of landlords who are increasing rents beyond what they need to to cover costs—remembering that we subsidise them with negative gearing already. This is making the homelessness crisis worse, and it is increasing the waiting list for social housing, which is already at 640,000 nationally. It's at least 50,000 in my home state of Queensland. Our policy settings have to date been making this problem worse, and real people are suffering as a result. Unlimited rent rises should be illegal.</para>
<para>We pushed the government on this. This has now become a national conversation because so many people are feeling this in the real world. But never before has National Cabinet had to debate tenants' rights and rental rises. We are proud to have ensured that National Cabinet, the Prime Minister and all the premiers and chief ministers sat around the table and talked about who's got responsibility and what should be done to address the rental crisis. Unfortunately, whilst the pressure engineered that meeting to occur, the results of the meeting were pretty flimsy. Many of the announcements that were made simply built upon what states and territories were already doing and made some small tweaks, but we don't have a rent freeze nationally. We don't have rent caps, and we don't have a plan from the federal government to make unlimited rent rises illegal. I've heard the government say in other contexts that, when a crisis is a national one, it deserves national attention. It seems that they only say that selectively. What they've said about rents is basically that rents are not their problem—'This is a state and territory matter'—and, yet, you cannot have both things true at the same time. If on other matters you're saying the crisis is so great that it deserves a national response, why are you not accepting that we are in a national rental crisis and that the federal government should do more? At the very least, you could incentivise the states and use that gentle pressure.</para>
<para>It is wall-to-wall Labor governments on the mainland. You're all on the same team. Don't tell me that the Prime Minister doesn't have any power to shape national policy, to coordinate and collaborate with and to incentivise the states and territories to stop unlimited rent rises, make them illegal and bring in some meaningful standards for tenants—not the wishy-washy commitment to running water that National Cabinet came out with. Really? Is that the level of expectation that renters can expect from this government—a commitment to running water? You would hope that it wouldn't require a National Cabinet meeting to guarantee running water for tenants. We need so much stronger standards for tenants. We need to investigate longer leases. We need to make those no-grounds evictions rules nationwide and consistent. Wouldn't it be nice to have a right to a pet, as a tenant? We know how good for mental health having an animal companion is. Wouldn't it be good if we could have some national standards relating to that? There is so much that the federal government could do to respond to the rental crisis that we are facing. And yet, we have nada. There was only the most minimal outcome from the National Cabinet meeting.</para>
<para>I say to the government: we will keep pushing for a rent freeze. We will keep pushing to make unlimited rent rises illegal. We do think it's your job as the federal government, particularly when all the state and territory governments on the mainland are from your political party, to address this crisis. Moreover, people out there think it's your job to address this crisis. People out there are really feeling the pain of the stratospheric rent increases that they've faced in the last 12 months. They know now that there's someone in this parliament fighting for them. We have put renters' rights on the agenda nationally, and we will keep fighting for an outcome. We were not able to get it this time around, but there's more legislation coming. We have warned the government—and I am doing so again today—that we will be using our power in this place to fight for renters. You should be doing the same. This shouldn't be a political issue, but someone has got to fight for renters. I would hope that you would all do that, but we're the ones pushing for it, and, until such time as you come to the party, be warned: people are not happy, and people expect better from you. They changed the government, they wanted a change of policy, they wanted their material concerns addressed, and they're deeply disappointed and underwhelmed by what they've seen so far from this new government.</para>
<para>This is an invitation to the government to seriously consider those rental reforms that we are proposing, because they're what people deserve, they're what they want and this is really a human rights issue. In a wealthy country like ours, it is appalling that we can't see the opportunity here for the government of the day to help out renters, who are one-third of the population. I might add that this is the same government that's spending—what is it?—$500 billion now on nuclear submarines. It used to be $300-and-something billion, and we got it re-costed. It's half a trillion dollars now on nuclear submarines. You can find money for that. Stage three tax cuts are $300-and-something billion over 10 years now. Again, you're not poor when it comes to those things—weapons of war and tax cuts for the rich—but you're too poor to do something about renters and too poor to put in a decent amount of money to build social and affordable homes in a way that would end the waiting list, in a way that would ensure that everyone in this wealthy country of ours can have a roof over their heads.</para>
<para>We know the horror stories about people living in cars, people living in tents, people who are one rent rise away from that precarious situation. This is an eminently fixable issue, and we again urge the government to get on with it and fix it, and we warn you that we will not let up on this. The fight is just beginning, and we have legions of people out there who are backing us on this and who deserve a better outcome from their government.</para>
<para>With that, I move the second reading amendment on sheet 2109 that's just been circulated in my name in the chamber:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) Australia is in the middle of a rental crisis, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) Labor had the power and opportunity to freeze and cap rent increases through National Cabinet, but refused despite the fact Labor holds government federally and in every state and territory on the mainland; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) agrees that every rent rise from here on out is Labor's fault and that unlimited rent rises should be illegal; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Federal Labor Government to coordinate a 2-year freeze on rent increases, followed by ongoing caps of 2%, through National Cabinet".</para></quote>
<para>I also flag that Senator Faruqi does not wish to proceed with her second reading amendment, so I withdraw that on her behalf.</para>
<para>In the remaining time allotted to me, I want to share, if I have time, some of the horrific stories that we heard from renters through the Senate inquiry into the rental crisis, which the Greens were proud to spearhead and which has been going around the country giving a platform to people who've felt voiceless until now and felt that no-one in here was representing them, until they heard that the Greens were fighting for them. I probably don't have time to share the full testimony, but in Brisbane, in my home state of Queensland—or Meanjin, as it's also known—a lady called Jo gave evidence to the Senate inquiry and said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I grew up in a family violence situation alongside my sister, and we sought help from the police, Centrelink and our university, but we didn't receive protection. Our abuser completely controlled our lives financially, emotionally and physically well into our 20s. In 2022, I fled Queensland when he threatened to kill me. I had just achieved a first-class honours degree. I'm not telling you this because I want you to feel sorry for me, but I do need you to understand that that experience is accompanied by a raft of financial penalties, from taking out a $30,000 HECS loan which enabled us to lessen the impact of the financial abuse, to routinely paying for treatment for complex post-traumatic stress disorder and physical injuries. …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This situation has cost me far more than the deposit on a home. Over time, the financial burden has accumulated, not least because I'm beholden to a housing market that unfairly prioritises investors. The abuse that I've managed for most of my life only ended last year …</para></quote>
<para>And she goes on and tells the story of financial abuse and manipulation.</para>
<para>Jo was just one of the submitters to that inquiry. There were many in Brisbane. There were many around the country. These are real people. They expect action on the rental crisis and they expect a government to deliver on making unlimited rent rises illegal, and that's what the Greens will continue to push to achieve.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise finally to speak on the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related bills. It's true that there are a range of very serious issues which undermine the provision of housing in Australia. There is a large demand for increased social and affordable housing in our cities and our regions. The most recent census data counted 123,000 homeless people in 2021 in Australia, a 5.2 per cent increase since 2016. Women over the age of 55 are most at risk of homelessness, and they are the group that makes up the largest proportion of homeless Australians. Often these women have had careers, families and what could be described as stable lives. We see that it takes only a few things going wrong—a relationship breakdown, a financial downturn, illness or something else that life throws at them—and the women in this group have nowhere to go. We have to ask, why is it women in this group who end up in these situations? I believe it is women who end up here because of the precarious nature of women's savings, superannuation and financial position and systems that mean they rely on others for security and safety, which means they end up way more at risk than other groups. Those social and economic factors, and how they contribute to poor gendered outcomes, are things that we need to engage with and think about seriously.</para>
<para>Similarly, First Nations Australians continue to struggle with long-term and stable housing. We know this, because we heard in the <inline font-style="italic">C</inline><inline font-style="italic">losing the </inline><inline font-style="italic">g</inline><inline font-style="italic">ap</inline> statement that First Nations people in this country continue to be disproportionately disadvantaged when it comes to accessing secure, appropriate and affordable housing that's aligned with their priorities and their needs. In addition, too many Australians are being hit with growing rents and many others struggle to buy a home, even on fairly decent incomes. This is a reality we cannot accept; Australia is not a country where this sort of housing shortfall should be permitted to happen.</para>
<para>The Albanese government recognises this; we know that ensuring Australians have safe and affordable housing is central to securing the dignity in life which Australians not only deserve but are entitled to by virtue of living in Australia. That's why the housing reform before us today is ambitious and comprehensive. It has quite a few moving parts but, at its heart, is the establishment of the Housing Australia Future Fund. This is a legacy fund which will provide long-term stable investment in social and affordable housing across Australia. The future fund is a long-term plan; no more sugar hits and no more short-termism. It represents a $10 billion investment that will generate $500 million a year in returns which can be invested in perpetuity and used to build well-located social and affordable housing. This is a record investment from the Commonwealth which will transform the long-term future of Australia's housing supply and the affordability of housing market stock. Along with the Future Fund, we are widening the remit of the National Housing Infrastructure Facility and the legislation also establishes the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council to provide independent advice to government on options to increase housing supply and affordability. What's more, the Regional First Home Buyer Guarantee has already been accessed by nearly 3,000 Australians choosing to live in our regions, and the Help To Buy program makes home ownership cheaper and more accessible for those trying to access the housing market for the first time.</para>
<para>In addition to what is now an extra $3 billion, the government's entire plan is about getting more homes on the ground now. The social and affordable housing sector agrees that this funding will make a real difference, and will change lives. National Shelter, Homelessness Australia, the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Housing Association, the Community Housing Industry Association and the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute have all called for this legislation to pass the parliament as a matter of urgency.</para>
<para>The government also recognises that preventing people from falling into homelessness in the first place is a central aspect of good housing policy. Once people are on the street it becomes much harder to get them back into secure and stable housing. I'm so proud that the Labor government has committed $124 million to fund the equal remuneration order in the National Housing and Homelessness Agreement. This will keep vital housing crisis support services open, functioning and properly staffed so that more people at risk of homelessness can access support services and get the help they need when they're on the precipice of becoming homeless. This will keep more people in homes and off the street, and takes an important preventative approach in solving the challenges in our housing system. I also acknowledge the campaigners who reminded the government of the importance of this money and the disproportionately positive impact that investing in prevention services has on our housing and homelessness outcomes.</para>
<para>I was glad to see every state and territory government signing up to support the Housing Australia Future Fund and the federal government's housing package earlier this year. This is on top of the establishment of the National Housing Accord, which reflects the shared ambition of federal, state and territory governments to build one million homes over five years from 2024. It's clear that state and territory governments are just as serious about improving the state of Australia's housing supply as the federal Labor government is. It's clear that all levels of government are willing to work together to achieve better outcomes. In matters of shared responsibility, like housing, this is a sensible approach, driven by the quality of results and the need to respond with urgency. It's clear that our states are serious, and so I find it astounding that the coalition has chosen negativity and scare campaigns in the debate around housing. They are suffering, I believe, from political relevance deprivation, so they figure that it's smart just to make some noise, throw up a few thought bubbles and hope that someone pays them some attention. But in the process of that political game, they actually deal themselves out of being part of big reform. They stop Australians getting safe and affordable housing and they actually make themselves even less relevant. By saying no to this reform, they are saying no to our nation's most vulnerable. They are saying that having 123,000 homeless people is okay. That is not tolerable. It is a shame. I would say that, when the time comes, it is unlikely that Australians will forget that when it comes to securing a better future for themselves and their kids. The Liberals and Nationals stood in the way of this government providing one of the most important aspects of that future—better housing for more Australians who are currently doing it tough.</para>
<para>The Liberals will come out with some ridiculous thought bubbles when it comes to housing policy. 'Home first, super second' is the latest iteration of this damaging thought bubble. We heard a bit of that in an earlier speech today. Imagine actively encouraging individuals to undermine their own stability in retirement rather than taking responsibility for what is a national policy problem. The coalition's housing problem is a lazy, regressive idea that shows they haven't learned anything. The impulse to kick the can down the road is ingrained in how they think about politics and policy. They can't bring themselves to do the right thing by Australians in the long-term and put the effort into coming up with some meaningful reforms. In short, they just refuse to take responsibility.</para>
<para>I'm glad the Greens political party have finally decided to join us on the road to solving Australia's housing shortfall; although I do think it's worth pointing out the Greens are now supporting a policy, the very essence of which their housing spokesman claimed only a few months ago would make the housing situation worse. Australians can make up their own minds about this contradiction in Greens' messaging, but from my point of view the whole saga has demonstrated the Greens are truly a political party who will say anything to wedge the government for as long as they can even if they agree in the end that the Labor Party got it right.</para>
<para>Nevertheless, it's a relief to have this legislation on its way to being passed in the parliament. Unfortunately, we cannot solve all the problems Australia's housing market faces overnight, nor can the Labor government undo in one year what has been 10 years of delay and neglect by the coalition government more focused on themselves than on Australia. But what we can do is take the massive $10 billion investment in the form of the Housing Australia Future Fund that will deliver 20,000 new social rentals the first five years plus 10,000 affordable homes and run with it. That will make a difference; that will have an impact. It is for that reason I'm pleased that senators in this place will work with the government on this reform and not stand in the way of delivering a better life for Australians who are homeless or on the brink of homelessness.</para>
<para>I read the newspapers and listen to the radio. I've watched the debate around social housing in Australia grow over the last 10 years of inaction. I've represented frontline housing workers who day in, day out work with Australia's most vulnerable to end their homelessness. I've heard from many peak bodies who all tell me there is a housing crisis. How we got to this point is a shame and should never have happened. But now the Albanese government is listening to Australians who need access to social and affordable housing. The housing market has a lot of problems. Not all of them can be fixed with one piece of legislation or, indeed, in one year.</para>
<para>The minister, Julie Collins, has done a fantastic job of getting us this far. She has advocated tirelessly for a better deal for Australians who are locked out of getting an affordable and safe place to live. Now the Senate must finish the job and bring this much-needed reform to Australians who need it the most—single older women, young people, First Nations Australians, the disadvantaged in our regions and our cities. I'm glad my Greens colleagues have weighed up the lives of those people against their political objectives and now support this legislation.</para>
<para>It is a shame the coalition didn't see the political value in these groups, because it will be up to those who voted not to increase investment in Australia's housing stock who will have to explain themselves to Australians, who right now need their help the most. I'm looking forward to delivering this election commitment to the Australian people and in doing so cementing another piece of legislation in the Albanese government's growing legacy of delivering a better future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I feel like I'm in a Hunter S Thompson movie here, <inline font-style="italic">Fear </inline><inline font-style="italic">a</inline><inline font-style="italic">nd Loathing </inline><inline font-style="italic">i</inline><inline font-style="italic">n Las Vegas</inline>, where I'm riding shotgun and popping Quaaludes on my way to gamble in Las Vegas, because that is what this bill is. The Labor Party wants to borrow $10 billion, invest it on the stock market, and then hope to make a return. How on earth are you going to generate a return when you have rising interest rates, rising oil prices? Let's just say, by the time—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! It is now 1.30. We will proceed to two-minute statements. Senator Rennick, you will be in continuation when we return to the legislation.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>14</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 2023 the war on young men and masculinity continues unabated. This was demonstrated by the <inline font-style="italic">West Australi</inline><inline font-style="italic">an</inline> newspaper recently when it ran a front-page story entitled 'How we stop this kid becoming a monster' with an image of a harmless-looking young boy on the front cover. The article describes how violence prevention groups want programs in schools moralise young children about respectful relationships and domestic violence. The implication is that without the intervention of these so-called experts and their lived experience this boy would inevitably become a violent criminal.</para>
<para>The so-called experts and their lived experience contribute nothing to society. I have a couple of obvious suggestions that might help. Firstly, instead of focusing on feelings in schools, focus on academic excellence, achievement and discipline. Secondly, stop vilifying boys and young men for their so-called toxic masculinity and promote the virtues of true masculinity, they being justice, prudence, temperance and fortitude.</para>
<para>The point of all of this is to brainwash young boys into submissiveness and a reliance on feelings instead of a reliance on assertiveness and reason. An assertive and principled man is dangerous to these social engineers. Our society needs more, not less, masculinity. We must raise men who are strong, resilient, courageous, decisive, principled and disciplined and who see it as their duty to provide for their families. If we want to see this, we must remember that it is the duty of the parents, not the public schools, to raise well-formed children. Schools should stick to reading, writing and arithmetic. To quote Dr Jordan Peterson, 'It's not okay to be a man; it's necessary.' What the hell are we going to do without men? I think a little more patriarchy will help us out, not hurt us at all.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>14</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This week in parliament is likely to go down as an historic one, as a great leap forward for housing in our country, if we pass the HAFF bills. The Albanese government will deliver the single-biggest investment in social and affordable housing in more than a decade. We hope to have the support in this chamber to pass the bills this week, and it will make a fundamental difference. One of the critical points here is not just the significant investment from the federal government; it is also the consultation and collaboration with the states in looking at what is needed on the ground in each and every state to see how we can genuinely deliver relief from the housing crisis, a housing crisis created in significant part by those opposite doing nothing for nine whole years.</para>
<para>There's one project that I'm particularly delighted to see come on board in South Australia—that is, the Prospect Corner development. It will include 55 per cent affordable housing. Fifty-five per cent is going to make a fundamental difference in South Australia. More than half of the 180 new homes are going to be built on 2.36 hectares in a master plan site. This site won't just have housing; it will have playgrounds, transport—you name it. It's going to be spectacular and it's going to make a fundamental difference. It is a priority project and it's going to help young families, single parents and key workers to enter the market and ease the pressure that we have on supply. We are creating more homes for those who need them when they need them and where they need them. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Transport Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yet again the Queensland Labor government have shown that their solution to growing congestion is—surprise surprise!—another road. Residents of Caloundra are extremely concerned about the Caloundra Transport Corridor Upgrade, which proposes a new four-lane road, supposedly to serve the current and future needs of travellers in the area. The new four lane road cuts through two parks with developed trees, residential areas and local businesses, and will clear bushland adjacent to ecologically significant wetlands. The project is flawed and will have irreversible environmental and social impacts. Community members are clearly against this project and yet have not been involved in any meaningful discussions.</para>
<para>Last week, concerned Caloundra community members came together to walk the area where the road is planned to go and were devastated to see all the habitat that will be impacted. Ironically, the government claims that this project is an investment in meeting the needs of public transport users. How can a few more lanes in one area seriously be considered an investment in public transport? But if the only tool you have is a hammer you tend to see every problem as a nail, and the only tool that the Queensland government knows how to use is an overfunded, poorly-designed new road.</para>
<para>Queenslanders are clearly sick of outdated and tired, phoney solutions. With 32 per cent of 18 to 34-year-old Queensland voters listing the Greens as their first preference, it's clear that the next Queensland government needs to be one that plans for more liveable and connected communities while looking after our natural environment. Instead of the $7 million of federal funding being allocated to this project, the government could put money on the table for public transport projects that give communities accessible, affordable, clean and connected cities in the regions that they deserve.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal And Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 14 October, Australians are going to have their say on Labor's Voice, and will need to choose if they enshrine this divisive institution into our Constitution. It's time for Australians to decide on what they value in their democracy. Since the founding fathers wrote our Constitution, it's been the foundation of a stable and thriving democracy. However, if the Voice succeeds it will be a major change, providing powers to one race over every other. If it passes it will then be up to this Labor government and the Greens to determine how it will work and how much power it will have. They will have a blank cheque. The government has decided not to tell Australians the full detail, purely relying on the appeal to the emotion for a 'yes' vote.</para>
<para>There is absolutely no substance to this proposal, and it's causing division, sadly, across the country. The Voice has simply been about the government appeasing elite activist forces and not even considering or consulting with those that they aim to help. From day 1, this government has been about exercising its ideological obsessions rather than governing for its people. They rammed through radical IR laws, slashed the cashless debit card and banned live exports—all the while doing nothing to support Australians to make ends meet.</para>
<para>I'll be saying no on 14 October, and I will join you in sending a strong message to Labor that this is no way to govern a country. The voice is risky and divisive, and, if you don't know, say no.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Road Safety</title>
          <page.no>15</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last month I hosted a roundtable on bus safety to discuss ways that we can make bus transport safer across Australia. The Hunter Valley bus crash, tragically, killed 10 innocent people, devastated families and communities and shocked all Australians. Joined by road safety experts, manufacturers, operators and unions, we discussed ways to ensure that the tragedy of the Hunter Valley crash is not repeated. Conversations about the use of seatbelts, the Australian Design Rules and future educational campaigns were shared. Everyone should know the importance of wearing a seatbelt, but we know that too often road users are choosing to ignore seatbelts where they are fitted, often knowingly making themselves more vulnerable to serious injury or even death.</para>
<para>Almost 100,000 buses on Australian roads move people around and between our towns and cities every day; without them, many people would not be able to go about their daily lives. Bus transport, relative to other modes of transport, is a safer way to travel and accounts for around 0.5 per cent of hospitalised injuries and 1.4 per cent of deaths from road crashes over the past five years. But we know that when there is a bus crash it is often more catastrophic in comparison to other road crashes.</para>
<para>The commitment from all stakeholders at the roundtable to bus safety is reassuring, proving that when we work together we progress towards our collective target of Vision Zero—that is, zero deaths on our roads by 2050.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7072" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning Senator Pocock, Senator Tyrrell and I stood with first responders to ask Minister Burke to split out four elements of the Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes) Bill 2023. The first one is an amendment to legislation that will make it easier for Federal Police, paramedics and firefighters to claim for mental health conditions like PTSD without having to first prove that they actually have PTSD. There are people out there who put their lives on the line for us every day. It's not all we can do; it's the least that we can do right now.</para>
<para>The second one is another amendment, which will protect victims of family and domestic violence from being sacked or discriminated against in their workplace. The third one allows redundancy payments for workers at small businesses that have gone out of business. It also protects redundancy payments for workers who might be working for larger businesses that have become technically a small business due to insolvency. The fourth one is about regulation of silica, like the dust from stone benchtops, into the asbestos safety act. There is currently no national regulation on silica, and this is a massive worry. It is estimated that nearly half a million young tradies are exposed to silica dust, with thousands already diagnosed with silicosis.</para>
<para>These amendments should never have been put into the industrial relations bill in the first place. It is a 200-page bill, and the explanatory memorandum is over 500 pages long. The crossbench got this last week, the same day as the House. I know why you did it, Minister Burke. The minister thought that putting these important and non-controversial amendments into the industrial relations bill would mean the government could accuse the crossbench of holding up help and protections for first responders, for victims of family and domestic violence, for small businesses and for tradies at risk of silicosis. Minister, you can now do the right thing. The ball is in your court.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Child Safety</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A report in a South Australian newspaper last weekend stated 35 children died from non-medical causes, including accidents. Of those deaths, the cause of 11 is unknown. Fifty-six died from medical issues, including life-limiting conditions, severe disabilities or babies who were stillborn. That is 100 children dead—100 dead who were known to authorities, who were at risk or who were in state care—within a four-year period in my home state of South Australia. This shocking report highlights why we must demand greater accountability, transparency and outcomes from the very services and organisations that work to protect our most vulnerable. In too many cases these children were let down. Their parents, carers and loved ones were let down. As Australians we've been let down.</para>
<para>Those who work in the DV and child protection sector do so because they have a deep commitment to making a positive difference, but they need the resources to back them in and for prevention and early intervention to stop children ending up in their care. It's no secret our systems are being pushed to their limits or are just not performing as they should. We must have transparency and accountability of the billions of dollars granted each year, particularly to the Aboriginal service industry. That's why Senator Price and I have been calling for a Senate enquiry to enforce transparency and accountability, but the Greens, the Labor Party and Senator Pocock said no. They said no to examining services that are supposed to be there for the most vulnerable and, in this case, for Indigenous children. To protect them and to protect their futures—that's what's important. That's what's most important: not protecting these organisations but protecting the children, the most vulnerable.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day of Peace</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Next Thursday 21 September, we will mark International Day of Peace. This year's theme, 'Actions for Peace', is a call to action, recognising our individual and collective responsibility to foster peace. This year it feels more important than ever to remember our responsibility. We are lucky that Australia is a relatively peaceful country. It is the reason so many people have come to call this place home. To preserve and strengthen peace in our country, we should all be focused on reducing inequalities, engaging respectfully in political debates and celebrating the immense value of our diverse, multicultural society.</para>
<para>Recently, I met with Nell Potter and Andrew Telfer from the Palestine Israel Ecumenical Network. It was wonderful to meet them and learn more about their work, which is focused on promoting peace in non-violent ways. Learning about their work and hearing their dedication to peace in the region so far from Australia, I was reminded that we all have a role to play. We should not accept that Palestinian families in the West Bank live under military occupation or that children are prosecuted in military courts without fundamental trial rights and protection. Everyone deserves to live in peace. I'm proud that this government recognises the rights of both Palestine and Israel to exist as two states with secure and recognised borders.</para>
<para>As we observe the International Day of Peace, let us remember the importance of diplomacy and dialogue in promoting peace and stability around the world. The women and girls in Afghanistan who face daily repression deserve peace. The people of Ukraine who are defending themselves against an illegal invasion of their home deserve peace. The people of Israel and Palestine deserve to live in peace.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Whistleblower Protection</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>David McBride and Richard Boyle shouldn't be names we all know because the Albanese government is trying to put them in jail; they should be names we speak with respect and admiration as role models for calling out wrongdoing. Major David McBride spoke out about war crimes by the Australian military in Afghanistan. It's no small thing for someone in the military to do this, and anyone who has had the privilege to stand with David knows that he is a man of deep conviction. He felt he had no other option but to speak out. His concerns about the brutalisation of Afghan people by Australian troops have now been proven terribly, awfully correct.</para>
<para>Richard Boyle saw the tax office using oppressive garnishee orders to recover money from very vulnerable people. He raised his concerns internally and repeatedly and, when nothing was done, he blew the whistle. And he was right to do so, as countless subsequent inquiries, including from this chamber, have found conclusively. This was the tax office robodebt, and while that royal commission has just finished with damning findings against the scheme's authors, Richard is the only one from the tax office facing legal sanction after what happened there.</para>
<para>I'm not one for big statues or worship of individuals, but if there are people that we as a society should value and protect then whistleblowers are surely up there. The continuation of the prosecutions of Richard Boyle and David McBride is entirely a matter for the Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus. He knows our laws are broken; he said as much. It's the hope of many of us in this place, and millions outside, that the attorney will acknowledge the injustice, do his duty to end the prosecutions and save these two good citizens from jail.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal And Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The upcoming referendum has been a great opportunity to engage with Canberrans and those further afield. I've been to Orange and Braidwood, and had great conversations about what the proposed changes at the referendum mean for us as a country. I've never been involved in a referendum before. I really respect and enjoy the work of Dr James Hollis, and one of the things he talks about is fear. One line from him is:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's one thing to have fear, something else to have a fear-driven life.</para></quote>
<para>I know personally that fear is a part of life. To the young people up there in the gallery: you go through life and you have many fears. It's part of the human condition. Where we run into trouble is when we make decisions based on fears. That leads to a smaller life, not a larger life. It's not stepping into life.</para>
<para>I've been really concerned about the 'no' campaign's deliberate use of fear. Today, Paul Sakaal in the <inline font-style="italic">SMH </inline>confirmed that there is a deliberate tactic of using fear. I would urge my fellow senators here to consider what it means for a country to make a decision based on fear. What does that mean for our future? Are we stepping into a larger story, a possibility for the future, or are we diminishing ourselves and our story, narrowing what we are willing to contemplate as a nation? Yes, there will be fears, but I believe we can be generous and accept the request from Australia's First Nations people.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Discrimination</title>
          <page.no>17</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Jewish community in Australia has made a strong and vibrant contribution to what makes our country a wonderful country, whether that be as early settlers or the achievements of people like Sir John Monash, Sir Zelman Cowen or Sir Isaac Isaacs. So senators and members should be alarmed when the Australian Union of Jewish Students finds it necessary to come to our national parliament to talk about the terrible and unacceptable experiences of Jewish students on university campuses across Australia. I joined with my coalition colleague Julian Leeser and with other senators from this place—Senator Catryna Bilyk, Senator Glenn Sterle and others—in hearing firsthand the experiences of Jewish students on our university campuses. They are captured in this report, the <inline font-style="italic">Jewish </inline><inline font-style="italic">u</inline><inline font-style="italic">niversity </inline><inline font-style="italic">e</inline><inline font-style="italic">xperience </inline><inline font-style="italic">s</inline><inline font-style="italic">urvey</inline> of July 2023.</para>
<para>At the very beginning, the first paragraph says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Jewish students report frequent encounters with antisemitic behaviour while attending university in Australia.</para></quote>
<para>That is not acceptable. In speaking to some of those who made the presentation, we learned that the situation is getting worse and not better. It's a remarkable revelation for a vibrant, prosperous and free country like Australia, to think that a group of students on university campuses should have to live in the fear of terrible attitudes that might trivialise the Holocaust and might be anti-Semitic in their nature. In a free and vibrant country like ours it's beholden on all of us, every group of us and every multicultural community, to stand up against anti-Semitism. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland: Operation Hard Yakka</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about tough love in the fight against escalating youth crime in my home state of Queensland. Crime is out of control in Queensland and the Palaszczuk Labor government has been hopeless at stopping it. But I had a good look at an effective solution to prevent repeat offending by at-risk youth a couple of weeks ago</para>
<para>Operation Hard Yakka is a military-boot-camp-style youth diversion training program, the longest-running such program in Australia. I have supported such programs for many years. The operation is based on Queensland's Fraser Coast and takes on at-risk young people who have been referred by courts or parents. The program emphasises respect, trust, self-control, self-discipline, antibullying, teamwork, confidence, motivation, rights and responsibilities. The program receives no government funding and relies on donations from businesses and organisations, like the RSL. It costs $4,700 per participant over 12 days. That is around one per cent of the cost of keeping a single young offender in detention for a year, and it works. The program has a 90 per cent success rate in turning kids lives around and preventing them from entering, or returning to, a life of crime. I think that compares very favourably to the fact that 85 per cent of serious youth criminals in Queensland reoffend within 12 months.</para>
<para>It's One Nation policy to fully integrate such programs into our youth criminal justice system to stop escalating crime in Queensland. I also call on Queensland businesses to consider supporting Operation Hard Yakka with a donation to address escalating crime. I'll just reiterate that: $4,700 for one child for 12 days. If we have a child in a detention centre it's about $450,000 a year. So two children in the detention centres would pay for about 200 children through this program for a year.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Swift Parrot</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, on Threatened Species Day, the environment minister, Tanya Plibersek, announced that the government had on that day released a new recovery plan to boost the long-term survival of the critically endangered swift parrot. With only 750 of these endangered birds left, this should have been a moment to celebrate. It should have been an exciting step in the fight against extinction. However, it turns out that the swift parrot recovery plan announced last week was not actually finalised and had not been shared with the scientists who helped to develop it. Indeed, the last official draft they had seen was one from 2019. Once they saw the plan that was released on Thursday, the scientists said that it contained no meaningful action to address the key threat to survival of the species: the logging of native forests. One of the scientists, Dr Dejan Stojanovic, said it was a 'lost opportunity' to develop a plan to end decades of damage from forestry that was pushing the swift parrot to extinction and that there was 'mountains of evidence that logging in Tasmania is the key threat' to the survival of swift parrots.</para>
<para>Ending native forest logging is essential to the survival of swift parrots. The recovery plan was an opportunity for the government to take real action on extinction. Instead the government has decided to put the interests of the native forest logging industry over the survival of a critically endangered bird. Enough is enough. If Labor isn't going to act, we must. That's why today I will be reintroducing our Ending Native Forest Logging Bill, which would put an end to the destruction of Australia's native forests by repealing the regional forest agreements and closing the loopholes used by the logging industry to bypass our national environment laws. Labor, if you want to honour your zero-extinction pledge, I urge you to support this bill.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin Plan</title>
          <page.no>18</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No-one better understands the importance of a healthy Murray-Darling Basin than the farmers and the communities that live along the banks of the rivers. It's our farmers who put on the tables the amazing fresh food that Australians eat every day. So achieving a healthy river system should absolutely be something that can be agreed to by everybody in this place. It doesn't matter where you sit on the political spectrum or where you live; you should support a healthy river system.</para>
<para>However, the pathway to deliver the Murray-Darling Basin Plan has been seriously threatened by the Albanese Labor government over the past couple of weeks. In announcing that the cap on buybacks will be lifted, they have abandoned the incredibly important balance between achieving a healthy river system and supporting the viability of our river communities and the food they produce. These are the very producers that make the difference between our being able to eat the very best food in the world and our importing our food from countries that do not have the same ability to meet environmental and nutritional standards as Australia. Ripping huge amounts of additional water, via buybacks, from our irrigators will absolutely decimate river communities like my home town of Renmark. To put it in context, the buyback proposal on the table by the Albanese Labor government would see 38 gigalitres of water recovered from South Australia, which is more than the entire entitlement of the Renmark irrigation district. My home town would be gone.</para>
<para>In this economic environment, Labor's definition of a willing seller also ignores the reality that's currently being faced by irrigators. A willing seller is not somebody who has the bank breathing down their neck. I have always supported the Murray-Darling Basin Plan, but I cannot and will not support buybacks, because we know that buybacks harm river communities. The government should have the courage to face these river communities during the Senate inquiry into this legislation, because it will have significant and permanent consequences.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Walking Together Workshops</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was deeply moved and honoured by my attendance at the Walking Together workshops in the federal seat of Canning over the weekend, and I express my deep gratitude to Youth Off The Streets educators Nicole Laupepa, a Gomeroi woman, and Jacqui Parker, a non-Indigenous trainer. Over the last six years, since the Uluru Statement from the Heart, they have held more than 300 workshops with members of the community hungry to learn more about the statement. Their workshop, indeed, helped me and many others who attended to gain a deeper understanding of who we are as a nation. Their work reminds us that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people have such diverse cultures and helps us deepen our understanding of our sense of self as a nation. They used their own story as Australians—one as a white Jewish woman and the other as a Gomeroi woman—to show what it is to have lived experience that you bring to the table in your national identity and what it means in a national debate like this. It points out that it is simply good governance to listen to lived experience and to listen to communities about matters that affect them. Without doing that, we can only fail in what we deliver. The Voice to parliament will enable our government and parliaments to consult with communities to achieve better outcomes.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will now move to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>19</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Productivity Commission</title>
          <page.no>19</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Was the Treasurer briefed by Treasury on the policy views of Danielle Wood prior to her appointment as chair of the Productivity Commission, and if so on what date?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I welcome the opportunity to congratulate Danielle Wood as the first female leader of the Productivity Commission when she takes up that role. I will have to come back to Senator Hume if there's anything further that I can add, but I understand there was a full merit selection process which was undertaken for that appointment, and the Treasurer would have been briefed on that. It is an exciting opportunity to have Ms Wood take up that role. It's an important institution. It's an institution that the Treasurer is keen to invest in so that we can continue to get good advice from that body, particularly with the productivity challenges that have been apparent in this economy for over a decade now and some of the work that needs to be done to make sure that we are lifting productivity and enhancing living standards.</para>
<para>There was a full merit process. The Treasurer would have been briefed on that. She is a fine candidate who brings a wealth of experience and expertise, including a stint at the Productivity Commission at an earlier time in her career. I look forward to working with Ms Wood, as are all members of the government, and I hope that people in the—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on direct relevance. The question was whether the Treasurer had been briefed by Treasury on the policy views of Ms Wood prior to her appointment, not the merit selection process.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the minister is being relevant. She said she will take that part of the question on notice. I'll leave that to the Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I said I would come back if there was anything further I could advise on. I did indicate that there was a full merit process where candidates were interviewed. Normally as part of that process, an interview panel would have gone to an applicant's career. In this area there are people who have produced publications and been involved in policy debates. I have no doubt that through a merit process all of those matters would have been raised. She is a standout candidate, an excellent candidate, and she will be a first-rate leader of the Productivity Commission and the government looks forward to working with her.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, a first supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Has the Treasurer ever had a conversation with Ms Wood about tax in Australia, and if so on what date? Did the discussion include inheritance taxes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can't stand here and answer to every conversation, or have insight into every conversation that the Treasurer has had with anyone, including Ms Wood. I would hope that her appointment to this senior position in the economic portfolio would be welcomed by those opposite. She is a serious candidate with a serious CV and an incredible level of achievement in the roles that she has held, and I would have hoped that this chamber would have seen the opportunity to congratulate her in this role.</para>
<para>The government don't form the view that we have to agree with every position that individuals may hold. If Ms Wood has positions that she holds that may differ from the government, that is entirely reasonable.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Th</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume is there a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, a point of order on direct relevance. If the minister doesn't know the answer, I would very much appreciate it if she would go away and come back to the chamber with an answer. She can take that on notice. She did say she didn't have an answer. She can take that on notice.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, that is not a point of order. The minister did answer your question. It is not a point of order; it is a debating point. Minister, did you have anything to add?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> I did answer it straight up. Senator Hume didn't like the answer but I can't answer for every conversation the Treasurer has had. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Has the Treasurer issued a direction to the Productivity Commission to cease any work on an inheritance tax?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Honestly?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who writes this crap?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, that was inappropriate.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">S</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is this really the best you can do midway through a sitting week? Honestly. We have an incredible candidate who has been appointed to a senior job in the economic portfolio, the first time a woman has held it and this is the level of question we get from the opposition. I would say that we intend to take note of the Productivity Commission's reports unlike those opposite, where the decade they were in power had the worst productivity outcomes in 60 years. Get that—60 years. That is what you did. And part of the problem was, every time the Productivity Commission released a report, you ignored it. It sat on the shelf. You didn't even bother responding to it. We look forward to working with Ms Wood. We look forward to her leadership and the skills that she will bring to the economic debates in this country.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On direct relevance. It was a very simple question as to whether the Treasurer has directed the Productivity Commission to rule out an inheritance tax. We did not get an answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will invite the minister in the three seconds remaining if she has anything further to add?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Future Fund</title>
          <page.no>20</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Can the minister update the Senate on how the Albanese Labor government is delivering on its promise to build more homes for Australians through the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund? Can you please confirm the fund will create a secure ongoing pipeline of funding for social and affordable rental housing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator White for her question and I thank her, not only for her continued support for more housing in Australia for Australians who need it but for her advocacy for social justice and equity for all of her working life including in this Senate. We do have an ambitious housing reform agenda and we welcome the new support for the Housing Australia Future Fund. We look forward to the Senate dealing with the legislation expeditiously.</para>
<para>This fund, the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund, will ensure there is consistent and ongoing funding for social and affordable rental housing. Returns from the fund will help deliver our commitment to 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the fund's first five years. And it will deliver the Albanese government's commitments to help address acute housing needs, including $200 million for the repair, maintenance and improvements of housing in remote Indigenous communities. It will provide $100 million for crisis and transitional housing options for women and children impacted by family violence and for older women, who, we know, are increasingly at risk of homelessness, and there will be funding to build housing for veterans who are experiencing homelessness or who are at risk of homelessness. We've announced additional funds of $1 billion to be invested in the National Housing Infrastructure Facility to support new homes.</para>
<para>So despite persistent ongoing and unconscionable opposition from those who presided over the housing crisis, we are now tackling the Liberals and Nationals, who sowed the seeds of housing crisis in their wasted decade in government, who neglected those most in need. Those on this side of the chamber are working to deliver more homes for Australians, something that you consistently oppose.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator White, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank you, Minister, for the update. What other measures is the Albanese Labor government taking to ensure Australians, including renters, have a safe and affordable place to call home?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that renters are doing it tough. I want to emphasise that the 30,000 homes in the first five years of the Housing Australia Future Fund are rental homes—social and affordable rentable homes. We are providing additional funding on top of the Housing Australia Future Fund for social and affordable rental homes. We have worked with the states and territories on the National Housing Accord to build 1.2 million homes over the next five years. These are important measures that will put downward pressure on rental prices by increasing supply. We are also working with states and territories to secure a better deal for renters to improve renters rights across the country. This government is delivering the largest increase in Commonwealth rent assistance in more than 30 years, as well as working to get more Australians into home ownership with the expanded home guarantee—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. Senator White, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia's peak housing and homelessness bodies have been steadfast in their support of the Albanese government's housing reforms. Can the minister explain why the sector wants all parliamentarians to pass the Housing Australia Future Fund bill?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is true that organisations working at the coalface of family violence—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I beg your pardon, Minister Wong. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm seeking advice from you as to whether this question is in order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Because?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Because questions shall not be specifically going to the specifics of a matter that is currently before the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The supplementary question went to the attitudes of peak housing and homelessness bodies. I do understand why Senator Ruston is embarrassed about discussing this. I do understand why she finds it hard to defend their opposition to more homes.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand why they're all on their feet now, wanting to make sure they don't talk about hope.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie, I have Senator Ruston on her feet. I do accept that you were on your feet first, but I'm—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just a point of order—the minister was debating rather than actually addressing the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKenzie. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm seeking to understand whether you are actually going to rule on my request.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I will. I always give leaders an opportunity to respond.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! Senator Ruston, I am advised that it needs to be far more directly related to the bill on foot, which that question is not. It's more of a broad interpretation. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could I ask, President, that you would actually seek to review the question that has been asked of the minister and reflect on your ruling, because I would draw to your attention that the question was very specific in its direction to the legislation currently before the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESI</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Ruston. As I indicated to the chamber, I sought the advice of the Clerk, and I have reiterated to the chamber the advice of the Clerk. But if it assists the chamber, I am always happy to review the question. We will continue the answer. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I do understand why those opposite are embarrassed about their position on housing, which is what the intervention by the Manager of Opposition Business in the Senate demonstrated. They are so embarrassed about their position that they don't even want a government dixer on it. That is a new level of sensitivity from the opposition, and that is because their position is an unarguable position. It is an illogical position. Just ask Homelessness Australia's Kate Colvin, who said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The homes delivered through the HAFF will each make an enormous difference to people who would otherwise be homeless.</para></quote>
<para>Community Housing Industry Association's Wendy Hayhurst has spoken in support of this. The Master Builders Association have spoken out in support of this. The Urban Development Institute have spoken out in support of this. You are on your own in your relentless negativity and in your opposition to new houses. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! That was very disorderly. Interjections across the chamber are particularly disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>22</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Minister, you told the Senate last week that the Albanese government was 'pleased' with the national accounts data released on Wednesday of last week. Will you explain how the government can be pleased that Australia is experiencing a per capita recession?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We were pleased with the result and, as I said at the time, I think, the results were better than many commentators had expected—stronger—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr, I have called you on numerous occasions. I am asking you to listen in respectful silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>that the economy's growing, and it's growing faster than the economies of many of the countries that we often compare ourselves with. So, overall that is good news.</para>
<para>We have never, ever pretended that there aren't challenges facing the economy. There are. From day one, since I started answering questions in this place, from the beginning of this government, we had inherited an economy with rising inflation, high inflation and rising interest rates, and we had to deal with that. We also had the effects of the borders opening after COVID and the faster return of international students than I think most expected. This has set a challenge for the economy, but we are dealing with it. The fact that the economy is growing is good news—a view that I would have thought everyone in this place would share. I would have thought it is something that those opposite would also accept is a good result. In light of the challenges facing the economy—some of them domestic, some of them related to the global situation—I would have thought that that is something all of us in this place would think is a reasonable result.</para>
<para>I'm not saying there aren't challenges, because there are, and we should have our eyes open on those. We're seeing inflation moderate. That is a good outcome; that is a good result. We're seeing wages starting to get moving. Again, that is a good result. We've got the opportunity that will come with the transition to a cleaner and greener economy. There's no doubt that there are challenges, but those national accounts last week spoke to the strength of our economy and its performance overall.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again noting the Albanese government's positive view of the national accounts, can you confirm that the household savings ratio is the lowest level since July 2008? And can you tell the Senate what is pleasing about the household savings ratio declining to the lowest level since Labor was last in power, 15 years ago?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I think you're selectively interpreting my comments. I have said that we were pleased with the results but that there were challenges, and there are challenges going forward. So don't stand up here and pretend I have said otherwise. Household savings are reducing, and that shows the impact of higher interest rates than we've had for some time. People are dipping into their savings. We've acknowledged that, which is the reason for our cost-of-living package—which I would remind those opposite, who are very quiet, that they have opposed every step along the way, whether it be cheaper medicines, cheaper energy or our investment in housing. Every which way that we have gone, you have opposed those cost-of-living measures. They're to make sure that households can deal with the higher inflation environment and the impact that high interest rates have had on household budgets. So it is not surprising that we're seeing a dip in household savings based on the economic circumstances right now.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The national accounts confirm that Australia experienced its largest fall in terms of trade since the June quarter of 2009 and that households across the country have been forced to cut discretionary spending and pay more for essential goods as a result of inflation and interest rate rises under the Albanese government's watch. Minister, what can be pleasing about any of this?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Those comments were relating to the fact that the economy is growing overall. Again, I would say—and those opposite know this, because they handed government over in this state—that the quarter with the highest inflation happened under your watch.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's what happened. Let's not just pretend—the way the question was placed was that this happened under Labor. The highest inflation started under your government. The interest rate increases started under your government. The interest rate increases to deal with the high inflation started under you. That is the truth, okay? And we are dealing with it, just like we're dealing with every other area of government that you left in disarray through your disinterest and your disunity. You neglected your role as the government in charge, and we are fixing up every single area of government we inherited.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment: Swift Parrots</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, Senator Wong. Last Thursday, on National Threatened Species Day, the minister for the environment issued a media release stating:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government has today released a new Recovery Plan to boost the long-term survival of the critically endangered Swift Parrot.</para></quote>
<para>However, as reported by the<inline font-style="italic"> Guardian</inline>, the swift parrot recovery plan announced on Threatened Species Day was not actually finalised and had not been shared with the experts who helped to develop it. The last official draft they had received was a version released for public comment in 2019, and, once they had seen it, the scientists said the plan released on Thursday contained no meaningful action to address the key threat to the survival of the species—the logging of native forests. Minister, how much longer is the federal government going to allow the native forest logging industry to recklessly destroy swift parrot habitat and drive them to extinction?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question. The advice I have in relation to the swift parrot recovery plan perhaps differs from what she just read out. The advice I have is that the plan has been endorsed by the federal government's independent Threatened Species Scientific Committee, which includes many of Australia's most experienced and respected scientists. But I think the real nub of the question from the senator is that—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They're the swift parrot recovery team.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senato</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, it's a different team.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, I am calling you to order! The minister is answering.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have listened to what the senator put to me, and if there's anything further, notwithstanding the information that Senator McKim appears to be wanting to share with us, I will provide that. I think the real nub of the question that the senator is asking is at the end. I know the Greens political party have a position in relation to native forests—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rice</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We don't like native animals becoming extinct.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, it's not a commentary. You've asked your question, and the minister is answering.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They have a position on native forest logging. I would say to them that I think we all understand—and the Albanese government understands—that native forests are valuable for their carbon storage and native habitats, including for endangered animals like swift parrots. That is why the government has already announced that, for the first time in Australia, the regional forest agreements will have to comply with new environment laws. I understand that the position that has been put to me is essentially a hard-line position—'hard-line' meaning it's drawing a line; I wasn't trying to make a political comment—in relation to native forests. Obviously, the government has to balance the regional forest agreement imperatives as well as the environmental imperatives that the senator references. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, can I clarify: are you claiming that the recovery plan has actually been finalised? Reporting and the department have told us that it is actually still being finalised and that the Victorian and the New South Wales governments are yet to sign on. Has it been finalised? When will we actually be able to see a final swift parrot recovery plan? How many swift parrots are going to die because of logging before the plan is finalised?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to the first part, I provided you with the brief that I have, Senator Rice. But, as I said to you at the outset, you put a range of facts or assertions to me in your opening question which I don't have any further advice on, and if there's anything I can usefully add to that, I will come back to the chamber and do so. I will check with the minister. But, in relation to native forests, I again say that I think the nub of the question from you is that there is a difference of views in relation to the native forestry sector. The government recognise the immense value of our native forests, including as habitat for endangered animals and species, such as the swift parrot; however, we do support a sustainable native forest sector. We were clear about that before the last election. We want to make sure that it operates on the high standards for environment management and sustainable harvesting.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, since the commencement of the regional forest agreements we've witnessed more than a quarter of forest-dependent species that are listed by the federal government as threatened and endangered moved closer to extinction. How does the federal government expect to reach zero extinctions when native forest logging is killing endangered species, including swift parrots, greater gliders—one was found dead in a logging coupe just recently—and koalas, and obliterating their habitat?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I identified in my response to the primary question what the nub of the question was, which is essentially a difference of views on native forests. We continue to support sustainable forestry. We recognise that a sustainable native forestry sector that operates under high standards for environmental management and sustainable harvesting has benefits in terms of jobs and the economy. Frankly, as someone from—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Rice?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rice</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order, President. My question was: how does the government expect to reach zero extinctions? It was not about extolling the benefits of native forest logging.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Rice. You also went to species and you also mentioned the RFAs. Minister Wong I think is being relevant. Please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, your position is: stop native forest logging. That's your position. I respect it. I disagree with it, but I respect it. So if I'm responding by saying that isn't the government's position then that is entirely relevant. One of the things I have never understood, given where I come from, is why it has been the position of the Greens political party that it's alright to have logging offshore in countries with lower levels of regulation than it is in Australia. And I can say that with first-hand experience— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>24</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Housing and the Minister for Homelessness, Senator Farrell. I keep hearing from constituents and stakeholders across Tasmania about the urgent need for more affordable housing. Knowing that the Labor government has a clear and ambitious housing reform agenda that will deliver housing for Australians who are in urgent need of safe and affordable places to live, how does the Albanese government's housing reform agenda demonstrate a shift from the inaction we have seen on housing over the previous decade?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her great interest in this area that's so important to her home state of Tasmania. Sadly, under the former Liberal and National government there was nearly a decade of inaction on housing policy—a lack of action that left too many Australians struggling to put a roof over their heads. That's why Australians are welcoming a new approach to housing policy, an approach which has seen the Albanese government hit the ground running, delivering an ambitious housing reform agenda. The shift in approach in housing policy is stark. Those opposite didn't hold a single meeting about housing with the states in their entire last term.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, shame. The current Minister for Housing is showing national leadership through regular housing ministerial council meetings. They have met multiple times this year. The former government also showed no interest in social and affordable housing. In contrast, the Housing Australia Future Fund will see the Albanese government deliver 30,000 new social and affordable homes in the fund's first five years, including a minimum of 1,200 in the senator's home state of Tasmania. The former government had no plan for housing and failed to deliver housing for Australians in need. The Albanese government has a comprehensive housing agenda that is delivering social and affordable housing for Australians. It's an agenda that's delivering for all Australians, particularly Tasmanians in your home state, Senator Bilyk.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks for that, Minister. I, like all my colleagues on this side, am very pleased to hear that the Albanese government are delivering homes for Australians who need them. I'm particularly interested in the announcement yesterday about further progress on the delivery of the Albanese government's Housing Australia Future Fund. Given this update, can you, Minister, outline what obstacles remain to the establishment of the fund?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her first supplementary question. Yes, I can answer that question. The Housing Australia Future Fund will be life changing, an ongoing pipeline of funding for new social and affordable rental homes, not just for now but for generations to come. It's urgently needed, and we look forward to its passage. It's needed because far too many Australians are being hit by growing rents or struggling to buy a home, and far too many Australians are facing or experiencing homelessness.</para>
<para>We are in this situation because of a decade of inaction from those opposite, and again the Liberals and the Nationals are opposing real action through the Housing Australia Future Fund. Saying no and doing nothing for Australians who need safe and affordable homes—that's what we've come to expect from them. But Australians know that they can expect more from the Albanese Labor government. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I've seen the media feedback from stakeholders warmly welcoming the progress of the Housing Australia Future Fund and the government's housing agenda, including strong support from the building and construction sector. Can you provide an update to the Senate on how the government's housing reform agenda will work with vital sectors for the delivery of these new homes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can, Senator Bilyk, and thank you for that question. The Albanese government wants every Australian to have a roof over their head. That's why we're working with sectors who are at the front line of delivering the homes our country needs. We've heard from the community sector about the difference the Housing Australia Future Fund will make. We are working with the construction industry to ensure our policies are considered and targeted in addressing the real issues confronting the housing system. Our policies are delivering in collaboration with community housing providers, construction companies and local councils. We look forward to the passage of the Housing Australia Future Fund as part of our broad reform agenda and to continuing to work hard to ensure more Australians have access to safe and affordable homes. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Whistleblower Protection</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Attorney-General, Minister Watt. Currently, two whistleblowers are on trial for telling the truth about government wrongdoing. David McBride blew the whistle on war crimes in Afghanistan. Richard Boyle exposed unethical debt recovery practices at the ATO. In November, McBride will be the first person on trial in relation to war crimes in Afghanistan—the whistleblower, not a war criminal. Has the government sought advice on whether the A-G should exercise his discretion, under the Judiciary Act, to discontinue these unjust prosecutions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Sen</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ator WATT (—) (): Thank you, Senator Pocock, for the question. I can certainly assure Senator Pocock and the whole chamber that the Attorney-General is strongly of the view that integrity and the rule of law are central to Australia's criminal justice arrangements. The Attorney-General's power to discontinue proceedings is reserved for very unusual and exceptional circumstances.</para>
<para>Senator Pocock referred to two cases: Mr McBride and Mr Boyle. As their proceedings remain ongoing, it is obviously inappropriate to comment further on the particulars of their matters; however, I do note that the government is committed more broadly to delivering strong, effective and accessible protections for whistleblowers. The government has already delivered priority amendments to the Public Interest Disclosure Act and will commence a second, broader stage of reforms, which will include public consultation on broader reforms to the Public Interest Disclosure Act to provide effective and accessible protections to public sector whistleblowers and address the underlying complexity of the scheme. It will also, as part of that consultation, address the need for additional support for public sector whistleblowers, such as a whistleblower protection authority or commissioner.</para>
<para>The government is delivering on its commitment to ensure that Australia has effective frameworks to protect whistleblowers, which are critical to supporting integrity and the rule of law. Reforms to the Public Interest Disclosure Act are long overdue, and significant reform is required to restore the act to a scheme that provides strong protection for public sector whistleblowers.</para>
<para>Senator Pocock, as I say, I'm not really able to comment on the individual proceedings that you've mentioned, and we'll obviously wait to see how they play out in the courts. But, as I say, we do very much believe in protection for whistleblowers, and already, in our first 16 months, we've begun work on some major reforms to strengthen those protections.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. As a matter of principle, why does the government think that it's in the public interest to prosecute whistleblowers while at the same time running on a platform of integrity and admitting that our whistleblower protections are not up to scratch? You're saying you've got another tranche but, in the meantime, we're going to prosecute whistleblowers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Pocock. I think, as I say, we are getting a little bit close to commenting on particular proceedings that are on foot at the moment. As I mentioned in my earlier answer, the Attorney-General's power to discontinue proceedings, as I think you're implying we should, is reserved for very unusual and exceptional circumstances.</para>
<para>You question our commitment to the protection of whistleblowers. I've already outlined to you some of the actions that we've taken just in our first 16 months. Having delivered those amendments to the Public Interest Disclosures Act, we are now beginning work on a second, broader piece of work to strengthen reforms to protect whistleblowers further. I think the fact that we have begun work, through the Attorney-General, on this matter so early in our first term does make it clear that we understand that these are significant issues that do need reform. Unfortunately, they weren't reformed by the former government, but we're already taking action on that front so early in our term, and I think that demonstrates our commitment.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. Will the government commit to a time frame for the second phase of PID reform and the discussion paper or consultation on the establishment of a whistleblower protection authority?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Pocock. What I can tell you is that the government has commenced work on the second, broader stage of reforms to the public sector whistleblowing framework. As I say, that work involves public consultation on redrafting the Public Interest Disclosure Act to ensure it provides effective and accessible protections and to address, firstly, the underlying complexity of the scheme and, secondly, the need for additional support for public sector whistleblowers, such as a whistleblower protection authority or commissioner. It's been nearly seven years since the Moss review recommended reforms to the Public Interest Disclosure Act. Since then, as I've said, this government has delivered reforms to strengthen the Commonwealth's integrity framework, including by establishing the National Anti-Corruption Commission. When this second period of consultation is completed, we'll closely examine what further reforms may be required to ensure that we have an effective whistleblowing framework.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. In recent weeks, we've seen the public release of COVID-19 vaccine contracts in South Africa, including the Pfizer contract, following a High Court of South Africa ruling. These contracts have revealed very liberal indemnity clauses, which we know from our own budget papers create an unquantifiable contingent liability. Section 5.5 of the contract between Pfizer and the South African government states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Purchaser further acknowledges that the long-term effects and efficacy of the Vaccine are not currently known and that there may be adverse effects of the Vaccine that are not currently known.</para></quote>
<para>Can the minister confirm if the Australian contracts have the same or similar words?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would be obliged, President, if Senator Babet could be clear on whether Minister Gallagher is being asked as finance minister or as Minister representing the Minister for Health and Aged Care.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, would you like to clarify?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Representing the Minister for Health and Aged Care, please.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think the final part of your question was about a clause in the contract. Those contracts are commercial-in-confidence. I do note that, in the South African case that Senator Babet refers to, it was as a result of a decision of the High Court of South Africa where a matter was taken to court by the Health Justice Initiative seeking access to those documents that, because of the nature in which those contracts were entered into, the government was not in a position, prior to that case, to release. My advice is that those contracts are subject to commercial-in-confidence requirements, so the government isn't in a position to release the contents of those contracts, but members will know—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, these were contracts that were entered into under your government, Senator Canavan, so we were negotiating those contracts, but, now that we are in government, we are bound by the requirements of those contracts. I remind people that those contracts were signed at the beginning of a pandemic where there was a lot of uncertainty about what was happening, and there were also a lot of people who were unvaccinated dying from the COVID virus. In procuring, I don't think Australia was any different from the arrangements that happened across the world, where governments entered into contracts with pharmaceutical companies to secure access to vaccines for their populations to ensure the populations were vaccinated against a disease that was killing hundreds of thousands of people around the world.</para>
<para>So, no, I'm not a position to confirm that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I accept when you say that things like the pricing arrangements might be commercial-in-confidence. That makes sense. However, surely what the government acknowledged around safety and efficacy is not commercial-in-confidence and must be released to the Australian public. We do have individuals in this country who have been injured by these vaccines. Don't you think you and your government owe it to these people to come clean and release the Pfizer contracts?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said, I'm not in a position to release the contracts—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is the definition of a protection racket—a protection racket for big international companies.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>that, Senator Rennick, your government entered into when it was in power, but there is, as senators will know, the COVID-19 Vaccine Claims Scheme, which has been established—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Rennick, I have called you to order. This is Senator Babet's question, and the minister is answering it—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a good one too.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick, when you're called to order, you come to order. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The vaccine claims scheme that has been established was to ensure that people who did suffer a recognised adverse event as a direct result of the COVID-19 vaccine have faster access to compensation than a costly and complex court process, so I think that does acknowledge that there were a number of citizens that did have an adverse event and that there was a claims scheme put in place. Over $11 million has been paid to date under that vaccine claims scheme.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. As senators will know, the scheme is demand driven, meaning all eligible applicants will be paid regardless of how much— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, your party has promised to be a transparent government, and you weren't even in government at the time that these contracts were signed. We all know that. You weren't the finance minister or the health minister. In fact, it could have been the member for Cook who signed these contracts; we don't know. We don't know, but the Australian public deserves to know. Minister, at the very least, will you commit to releasing a redacted version of these contracts?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While the member for Cook was the Treasurer, the finance minister and the health minister at the time, I don't believe that he would have signed these contracts as that would have occurred at the Public Service level. Regardless, governments engage in contracts across the board. It's not just around vaccine arrangements. Where there are requirements that those contracts be kept confidential, I would say that, regardless of the change of government, governments are bound by those contracts. You all come to estimates; you all ask questions around this matter; I'm sure that that will continue. So there is a level of transparency and accountability that's provided that you take good advantage of, in my experience of sitting on that committee. I would encourage you to continue to do so, but we won't be releasing the contracts.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister representing the Minister for Climate Change and Energy. The Tasmanian government has cut a new deal with the federal government on the Marinus Link, a new underwater electricity link between Tasmania and Victoria. The cost of the project has blown out to over $5 billion. When Minister Bowen announced that the Australian government is now taking 50 per cent of the equity in the proposed Marinus Link, he is reported to have said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… all the expert analysis and evidence I've seen supports this project being built.</para></quote>
<para>Will the minister commit to releasing all the expert analysis and evidence upon which he based his decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Lambie for her question, and I will try and answer it in a couple of parts. The first is a general point about why it is needed. I will certainly see if there's anything further that can be provided, but the general proposition is that, after a decade of inaction and confused policy, we've seen dispatchable energy exit the market and new, reliable energy not enter the market. If you look at what the Australian Energy Market Operator has stated, we know that we have risks, particularly in Victoria and South Australia but also in other parts of the country, that the government is seeking to manage. That's after we saw so much private sector investment refuse to invest as a consequence of the uncertainty that those opposite presided over.</para>
<para>We do need to get more renewables in the grid. That will take pressure off bills, and it will also help protect Australians from volatile international prices. We are making billions of dollars of investment in ensuring Australia is a renewable energy superpower, and we are implementing overdue policy reform to deliver a cheaper, cleaner, more reliable energy system. For example, I'm advised that we are anticipating we will have 3.4 gigawatts more generation this summer than in the last summer.</para>
<para>In relation to Marinus Link, which was the first part of your question, this is an incredibly important project for Tasmania and Australia. It will reduce cost-of-living pressures for Tasmanians—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I beg your pardon, Minister Wong. Senator Lambie on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lambie</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think the question was whether or not they intend to release the expert analysis and evidence upon which the decision was based. It's a pretty simple question; it's either yes or no.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There was also the preamble, Senator Lambie. I'm happy to draw the minister to the second part of your question, but the minister is entitled to answer the whole question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I apologise, Senator Lambie; I thought you were talking about the general proposition, but, if it's in relation to the Marinus Link economic analysis, I will take advice upon that. It is the case that the stage 1 project is projected to deliver economic stimulus to Tasmania— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, your first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>According to reports, the Tasmanian government has said the original proposal for two cables has been scrapped in favour of just one cable. This was done to reduce the cost of the project. Experts tell me one cable cuts the capacity of the link, undermining its potential for enhanced energy security. Can the minister explain how cutting this project in half will bring the same level of enhanced energy security and redundancy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): Obviously, the government have to look at the cost of the project very carefully and ensure that we deliver the best outcome for taxpayers that we can. The reality is that this is a project competing in a global market. We have very constrained supply chains, and we have inflationary pressures around the world, and those are affecting all major energy and infrastructure projects globally. So it is the case that we have announced that the project will focus on delivering the first cable, with discussions to continue on the second cable to be considered after cable 1 investment has been determined. As I said, even only one cable will deliver. I am advised that IEMO has said that cable 1 will deliver close to two-thirds of the total benefit of the whole project, and even with this cost increase— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Recent news reports suggest that Victoria, with its new wind farms and battery storage investments, are going cold on this project. Has the minister received a solid commitment from the Victorian government that they will share the cost of building the Marinus Link with Tasmania and the federal government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will get advice about what I can provide you in relation to funding arrangements. What I can say is this is a project that the Australian government is committed to delivering. It's a project that will deliver, as I said, economic benefit to Tasmania as well as to Victoria and, as importantly, it will improve reliability. It will provide reliability in the National Electricity Market. We would see better utilisation of existing Tasmanian generation and we would see additional security for Tasmania, providing important redundancy for the Basslink Interconnector. In relation to the funding arrangements, I have some knowledge. I need to check with the minister what can be provided in the public context and I will do so.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin Plan</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. Last month the Albanese government made a historic agreement with states and territories to deliver the Murray-Darling Basin Plan in full, including 450 gigalitres of water for the environment. Can the minister please explain to the Senate how this plan will put the Murray-Darling, a vital river system, on a healthy and sustainable path for our kids and grandkids after nine long years of neglect?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Grogan, for the question. As a South Australian, Senator Grogan knows that the river Murray is truly South Australia's lifeblood. She has also campaigned on this issue for years and I thank her for it. Senator Grogan knows that a healthy Murray-Darling Basin is critical for the future security and prosperity of our country. It is often called the nation's food bowl. It supports farms, vineyards, livestock, and, critically, the drinking water that comes from the Murray flows to hundreds of thousands of homes. Our government, the Albanese Labor government, is working to—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You are lying.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am unsurprised that there is an interjection from the National Party—those who have tried to scuttle the plan for a decade and that's why you interject now. You see, the Albanese Labor government is working to—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Watt, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe Senator McKenzie just accused Senator Wong of lying. She might want to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I didn't hear the comment.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators on my right, I'm addressing a point of order. I didn't hear the interjection but I am going to invite Senator McKenzie to withdraw without reference to the comment if she made the comment. Thank you, Senator McKenzie.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzi</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw, if it assists the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those opposite had nearly a decade to deliver and what did they achieve? Two gigalitres out of 450. President, did you know, if you left it to the coalition, to the Liberals and the Nationals, it would take 2,000 years to deliver the plan? Those opposite have sabotaged every good-faith attempt to deliver the plan. The truth is that the National Party never wanted the plan and the Liberals were too spineless to stand up to them. The only party which is prepared to do the work to get the Murray-Darling Basin Plan back on track is the Labor Party.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKenzie!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's the only party prepared to deliver, and we've struck a new deal with New South Wales, South Australia, Queensland and the ACT to deliver the plan in full. We've introduced legislation to help do this. It's a plan that delivers more water for the environment, more certainty for farmers and industry, more protection for native plants and animals and a better future for Australia's most important river system. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, your first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you to Minister Wong for her dedication on the Murray-Darling for so many years in the face of such opposition. Recently the Murray-Darling—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, please resume your seat. Senator McKenzie, I've called you about five times in a row. Senator McKenzie, I am calling for order. You are being disrespectful and disorderly. Senator Grogan, please continue your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Recently the Murray-Darling Basin Authority released a report that revealed just how much basin communities were let down by the previous government. Can the minister please inform the Senate how this place now has the power to support a better future for Australians and the environment?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If those in this chamber need a reminder of why this plan is necessary, let's go back to one of the leaders during the millennium drought, who said: 'The old way of managing the basin has reached its use-by date. We need to confront head on and in a comprehensive way the overallocation of water in the Murray-Darling.' That was John Howard. So there are some on that side who do understand that the National Party position on this, which is now determining Mr Dutton's position, is an irrational position.</para>
<para>I saw that the member for Sturt told the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> today that the 450 gigs of environmental water should be delivered, including through voluntary water purchase. Senator McLachlan also said it was 'imperative that we prioritise the welfare of our natural world' by securing this water. These are good comments. I am surprised at the silence from senior South Australian Liberals Senator Birmingham and Senator Ruston on the importance of the 450 gigs to their state.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister Wong, your time for answering has expired. I remind you to refer to former prime ministers by their correct title. Order! Senator Wong and Senator Canavan, order! Senator Grogan, your second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that response, Minister. Given how critically important the delivery of the 450 gigalitres of water is, can the minister please explain to the Senate if there are any people trying to stand in the way of this plan being implemented? We may have had a few hints with the interjections.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact is that we know there is one party that has been consistent in its opposition to improving the health of the Murray-Darling Basin for over a decade and that is the National Party. The Nationals have never shown anything but contempt for the plan.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What is the impact on farmers?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan, in South Australia we remember Barnaby Joyce telling us—Mr Joyce telling us—to move where the water is. That's what he told people from Adelaide, from South Australia: move where the water is. He said that there wasn't a hope in Hades that we would get the water that was promised. That's what he said. But the problem for South Australians is not just that Mr Joyce and the National Party run water policy for Mr Dutton; it's that the South Australian Liberal Party are so spineless in response. Instead of standing up for their constituents, instead of standing up for South Australia, what we see— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aviation Industry</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong. I refer the minister to comments made last week by the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Catherine King, when she said the actions of Qatari security forces to detain women at Hamad International Airport and undertake invasive body searches was 'a factor' in the government's rejection of Qatar Airways. The government has been in office for more than 15 months. Minister, what actions and on what dates, prior to Minister King making the Qatar Airways decision on 10 July 2023, did you raise with representatives of the Qatar government the Australian government's concerns with respect to the incident at Hamad International Airport and the treatment of Australian women?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I first say that the mistreatment of female passengers was a terrible incident. I think we all would agree with that. I think all Australians were shocked by the events. I also say, as I have said publicly, that we appreciate the State of Qatar's efforts following the incident to investigate, apologise and ensure it's never repeated, including establishing the task force to review airport procedures and protocols. I acknowledge the work Senator Payne engaged in in relation to that.</para>
<para>I was briefed on this matter following the election. I tasked officials, including our ambassador to Doha, to continue to engage with Qatari authorities in support of requests made by the women. That has been done on numerous occasions. I can confirm that I have also raised these matters with my Qatari counterpart.</para>
<para>We hope that there will be full implementation of the task force recommendations. We continue to engage with this issue in support of the women concerned in a manner that is appropriate and we will make appropriate representations to the Qatari authorities.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chandler, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer to the comments by the Prime Minister in question time on 4 September:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Qatar Airways can add more seats into Australia today—right now.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They are certainly welcome to do so, and they can fly as many flights as they like into Adelaide, into the Gold Coast, into Avalon, into Hobart and into Canberra …</para></quote>
<para>Minister, if the government considers the actions of Qatari authorities in 2020 are a valid factor for denying additional flights to major airports, why have the Prime Minister and the transport minister called for Qatar to provide more flights to regional airports? Is flying through Doha safe or isn't it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Se</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>nator WONG (—) (): At the risk of being a little pedantic, you asked me the primary question as the foreign minister and just now you asked me a question in relation to the Prime Minister and the transport minister's portfolios. I hope that, on the issue of the treatment of Australian women and the work by both sides of politics in government to try to resolve or find a way forward in relation to this matter, it would be a matter above partisan politics. The Prime Minister's statement I think speaks for itself.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chandler, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, don't the inconsistencies in Labor's policies and explanations demonstrate that the transport minister and the government are cynically using the incident at Hamad International Airport to distract the public from Labor's protection of Qantas from competition and as a consequence are imposing higher airfares on Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, and that's a very disappointing approach for you to take in relation to this incident.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKenzie</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Personal attacks and deflection, Penny.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, it is a disappointing approach. I am disappointed. It's not a personal attack; it's a disappointment. I mean it. I ask that further questions be placed on notice.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>31</page.no>
        <type>ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Productivity Commission</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for the Public Service, the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Women (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice asked by Senator Hume today relating to the Productivity Commission.</para></quote>
<para>It was a very straightforward question from Senator Hume about the new appointment to the chair of the Productivity Commission and what the Treasurer examined before making that very important appointment. The Productivity Commission is a very important policy organ of the Australian government. Its advice over many decades has been treated with a great level of interest and has often been acted upon by Australian governments of both persuasions, particularly in regard to improvements to the economic efficiency of our nation.</para>
<para>Senator Hume's question raised the issue of the support for inheritance taxes by Treasurer Chalmers's appointment to the Productivity Commission. But this isn't the only policy area where the new chair of the Productivity Commission has made forays into the public domain. Another one was highlighted by my good friend and colleague Senator O'Sullivan in the <inline font-style="italic">West Australian</inline> just this past weekend. The new chair of the Productivity Commission has, in the very recent past—in fact, just a few months ago—written that one of the ways the Labor government can 'repair the budget' is to scrap the GST arrangements that have seen a floor being put in place for Western Australia—so, not just support for an inheritance tax by Labor's hand-picked chair of the Productivity Commission but also support for scrapping the GST deal that's put a floor in place for Western Australian GST arrangements.</para>
<para>Let me quote to you from an article authored by the new chair of the Productivity Commission. This was on 11 April 2023—as I said, just a few months ago:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our report identifies a further $15 billion a year of savings measures, including undoing Western Australia's special GST funding deal …</para></quote>
<para>Now, describing it as a special GST funding deal is I think an insult to every Western Australian. This was putting in place a floor below which no state could fall, at a time when Western Australia was in danger of receiving literally cents in the dollar of the GST revenues that were collected in our state. So, that arrangement was put in place on the back of serious work done by the then Productivity Commission. They did a review into it. The model that was chosen by the government at the time wasn't exactly what the Productivity Commission put forward. The government did choose to go down a slightly different path. But it was the review by the Productivity Commission that brought the issue to light.</para>
<para>Now we have a hand-picked chair of the Productivity Commission—Labor's hand-picked chair, Treasurer Chalmers's hand-picked chair—who, as Senator Hume has highlighted, supports not only an inheritance tax but also a scrapping of the GST arrangement, hard fought for by Western Australian senators, Western Australian members of parliament—on this side of the chamber, at least. When those opposite said it couldn't be done—politically impossible—it was hard fought for by members of this side of the chamber, Liberal members, Liberal senators. And now it's a savings measure. Now it's a way for the Labor government to achieve budget repair.</para>
<para>I would have thought that the Treasurer would actually have looked at these things, looked at poor policy prescriptions such as inheritance taxes, such as scrapping the GST arrangements that introduced a modicum of fairness into the system. I would note that all the floor means is that Australia gets back 70c or 75c in the dollar, instead of getting under 10c in the dollar. Think about that. As a wage earner, if you got 70 per cent of your pay packet instead of 100 per cent, you'd be a bit upset, I think. This hand-picked chair of the Productivity Commission is more of a reflection on the Treasurer and his priorities than we should all feel comfortable with.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I need to put on the record some response to some of the claims that have just been put and repeated, which are completely incorrect. A 'hand-picked chair' is a choice of words that reveals the cynicism and negativity of this opposition at every single turn. We have the first female chair of the Productivity Commission for the country, who has been selected in a merit based appointment process where there was a series of interviews. It was a merit based process involving interviews with two departmental secretaries and the APS Commissioner. Through that rigorous, transparent process, a brilliant woman has now become the first female chair of the Productivity Commission. And what have we got in terms of questions in here today? No acknowledgement of that significant appointment, which is manifestly important to women in Australia. The productivity of this nation matters to all of us. Blokes have had a go ever since we've been instituted as a nation. We've got a bright, amazing woman who's eminently qualified for the job, and we get these miserly, negative, damaging comments and questions from those opposite. The reality is that we need to have confidence and hope in our nation, not the fear and the cynicism which we have seen are so much a part of the former government and which continue and actually get worse by the day the longer they're in opposition.</para>
<para>I want to put paid to another critical suggestion. They just suggested that Danielle Wood is not a fit and proper person for the role. They have suggested that there is some sort of inheritance tax being considered. I just want to make it 100 per cent clear, despite the mischief of those opposite, that that is not going to happen. So let's just get rid of that mythology that is under construction at the moment as well.</para>
<para>We have a merit based appointment of Danielle Wood to do the work that should have been done over the last nine years. In fact, there was a series of incredible recommendations in the Productivity Commission reports that were delivered by previous commissioners. What did those opposite do when they had the treasury bench, control of the government and the opportunity to implement changes to improve our productivity? They squibbed it. There were nine years of wasted opportunity. What did they leave us with? They left us with the reality that we have the very worst productivity figures in 60 years. Senator Gallagher responded with those facts, yet we still have denial by those opposite.</para>
<para>Let's look at it. They talk about an inheritance tax that doesn't exist; they demean and diminish the appointment of the first woman to be the chair of the Productivity Commission; they deny the reality of their period of nine years of government during which they delivered the most appalling historical productivity figures; and they come in here and act as if they're holier than thou and they did a fantastic job. Well, the facts just do not bear out the reality that they're trying to construct.</para>
<para>We've got a choice here. Every single time we come to question time, we've got a choice with the answers that we give and the questions that are posed: to lift the nation or to diminish us. The questions we saw today are another example of the fear and cynicism machinery that is alive and well in this opposition. They have a bleak outlook about our country. They have a failure mentality. They constantly whinge and whine, and they diminish every achievement of our nation. Cynicism never built a thing. In contrast, we are a government of confidence: confidence in the Australian people and confidence in our capacity to lift and build a better nation. We are a government filled with hope and opportunity that will give our country a much better future. Optimism is a state of mind that is absolutely missing from the miserly, diminishing sorts of questions that we get from this opposition day in, day out. We should expect with confidence that the new chair of the Productivity Commission, Danielle Wood, who is originally from Adelaide and has an honours degree in economics from the University of Adelaide and master's degrees in both economics and competition law from the University of Melbourne, will do a great job. They should get on board.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What was distinctly absent from Senator O'Neill's contribution there was the extent to which Ms Wood has actually contributed to the debate on productivity in our country. My major concern here is that the—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Neill</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She just got the job, Matt. Give her a go. She's just been appointed.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that interjection, Senator O'Neill! You've appointed her to lead the Productivity Commission, not work in it! If she's going to lead it, you'd think you'd be able to point to a record of Ms Wood advocating for significant policy reform in this country which would deliver productivity growth. I've read some—not all, of course, but some—of what Ms Wood has contributed to the public policy debate since her appointment and it seems to me that she has been extremely devoted to looking at tax increases, as we have described here this afternoon, and to extra spending on child care. As admirable as these debates are, they don't go to the core issue of how we lift our productivity growth.</para>
<para>I should put on the record of this contribution that I worked for the Productivity Commission; I was a graduate there. It has been a hugely influential institution in our country but I think its influence has waned over the past decade or so. The original debates it had on microeconomic reform and economic rationalism have waned somewhat from the policy debate and it has struggled to find a new footing to contribute to Australia's public policy debate. I think it's regrettable that the Productivity Commission has said very little about the energy policy debate—very little at all, despite probably being one of the most important microeconomic policy challenges that we face today.</para>
<para>It's very important to understand what the Productivity Commission is meant to be. It's quite a unique organisation around the world. It's meant to be an independent form of advice to the government on microeconomic matters—not on taxation matters, which I mentioned that Ms Wood has taken a particular interest in, and not on the fiscal balance, which she has also contributed greatly to, but on microeconomic reform matters. And we need a voice on those matters right now, given the parlous state of productivity growth in Australia. Just over the past year, productivity has fallen by around 3.6 per cent. That's the biggest fall we have ever recorded while we've been measuring productivity in this country and it directly means that Australians will be poorer over time unless we can rectify that situation.</para>
<para>Prior to her appointment to the Productivity Commission, Ms Wood headed up an organisation called the Grattan Institute. The Grattan Institute was founded by the former Rudd and Gillard governments; they were given a grant by them and have traditionally always come from the left side of politics and provided a left-wing conversation or elements in the public policy debate. It greatly concerns me that this has been a partisan appointment by the Labor government. As qualified as Ms Wood is, she will be, unfortunately, tarnished by the fact that she headed up an organisation that was set up by a former Labor government to pursue Labor ideas. That's why they gave them funding and that's why the Grattan Institute almost always advocates for higher taxes and higher spending, as Labor governments traditionally do.</para>
<para>Whatever your views are here on the merits or otherwise of high taxing and high spending, it's pretty hard to establish a case that higher taxes and higher government spending lead to higher productivity growth. That's not the historical record on these matters. You may want those higher taxes and higher spending, regardless of their impact on productivity growth, for other reasons, but it's a massive missed opportunity by the government here that we have not seen the appointment of someone who is widely respected in the economic policy-making field, who is not seen as partisan and who actually has a clear record in being able to advocate for policies that may sometimes be uncomfortable for the Labor government but which are the hard truths which we desperately need people to tell Australians right now.</para>
<para>If there is one thing which is absent from our public policy debate, it is some hard truth—the hard truth that we cannot keep spending billions and billions of dollars on extra debt every year and expect to get away with it. There is the hard truth that one of the reasons our inflation is out of control is because we no longer take control of our own energy destiny. There is the hard truth that tough decisions—difficult decisions—must be made to restore our economic strength and prosperity. That's because at the moment we're taking the lazy decisions of increasing government spending and advocating for higher taxes, and those will not deliver economic prosperity to the Australian people.</para>
<para>It should be noted that Ms Wood has advocated for an inheritance tax and that there are Labor senators, like Tim Ayres over there, who have long advocated for an inheritance tax. This should send a chill down the spines of all Australians, because the Labor Party has pretty much never seen a tax that they don't want to put on their backs.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What a fascinating conversation! What a fascinating debate we're having here! I would like to start off by offering my congratulations to Ms Wood as a fellow South Australian. She is touted as an outstanding economist, and her background would give rise to her being a great candidate for this role. So I don't think it's any major surprise that she made it through a merit process overseen by the APS—a normal merit based process that we would expect for such a position. I don't think there's anything here other than those opposite showing us again and again and again that they have neither respect for nor commitment to women. I can see no other reason why you would have such a problem with Ms Wood as opposed to another candidate.</para>
<para>The point has been raised by Senator Canavan that he knew more than Ms Wood while he was a graduate in the Productivity Commission, that he spent time as a graduate in the Productivity Commission and that he was probably better placed than her. He points to the fact that she has run an independent think tank. In case anyone is unsure, that's a place where you independently think. That is exactly what we want from the Productivity Commission. We're not going to continue on the same pathway as those opposite, who commissioned report after report from the Productivity Commission and proceeded to ignore every last one of them. What we're doing here—what the Labor government is doing here—is looking to the Productivity Commission for ideas, for that independent thinking and for that investigation into critical issues. So, no, it doesn't seem particularly surprising to me that we would pick someone who's had that kind of depth of experience.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>'We' would pick someone? 'We' would?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not going to go to your interjections. If I misspoke, we'll clean it up afterwards. The narrow and inflexible thought process from those opposite is a missed opportunity from those opposite. We have looked to find someone, through a merit based process, who can give us that breadth of thinking. We are not going to shy away from that. Some of the accusations are just ludicrous.</para>
<para>Now, yes, Ms Wood has indeed advocated various things that the Labor government may not wish to pursue. We are not looking for somebody who has a particular way of thinking; we're looking for someone with an open, inquiring way of thinking to boost the efforts of the Productivity Commission so that it gives us the kind of broad thinking that we need to help develop how we're going in this country, because we have had 10 pretty shabby years. And, no, we don't need somebody who agrees with everything that the Treasurer says. That is not what we're looking for at all.</para>
<para>To echo the comments of my colleagues, Labor has no plans for an inheritance tax. That's just the fact of it. We do not. That is not where we're going. Minister Gallagher has been very clear. Senator O'Neill has been very clear. The Treasurer has been pretty clear. This is not what we're looking at the pathway of. So we can just put that one to bed. Just because one person who is in the employ of a part of the government has a particular thought does not make it government policy. Maybe in your day it did, on the other side of the chamber, when you employed in a narrow fashion, but that's not where we are. We're not afraid of ideas, we're not afraid of debating things, and we're not afraid of putting people who have excellent backgrounds and excellent credentials and who will challenge the thinking into positions, as we have by putting Ms Wood in the Productivity Commission. She is an excellent appointment.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That was illuminating, I think we'd have to say. I think Senator Grogan just said the quiet part out loud when she said 'we', meaning the government, appointed this new productivity commissioner, Ms Wood. My understanding is that the Governor-General makes that appointment, under the legislation. But we learn something every day! And we know that this Labor government does have a top-down, central control approach to government, so why should it be any different in respect of this particular appointment?</para>
<para>We've made the observation many times over the last 18 months or thereabouts—I've made it many times myself—that we on this side of the chamber said prior to the last election that it was not going to be easy under Albanese, to coin a phrase. I think it becomes clearer every day that that was quite prophetic. We're seeing example after example. If you're a homeowner it hasn't been easy under Mr Albanese, as a result of the interest rate rises. For households it has not been easy seeing massive increases in energy bills. Families have seen massive spikes in shopping bills over the last 18 months, primarily, I would say, as a result of this government's reckless energy policy and the war on cheap energy.</para>
<para>No-one on that side of the chamber is saying it. They're all saying, 'We don't have any plans to introduce an inheritance tax,' despite the fact that they've got about a thousand champions for an inheritance tax. But, as a result of this decision, it's very clear we're now looking down the pipeline into the brewing battlefield of death and inheritance taxes by stealth. They're coming. We can see it. We've been saying it for a while. My colleague Senator Gerard Rennick has been talking about this for a while. Senator Canavan pointed out that Senator Ayres has a particular penchant for an inheritance tax. Who wouldn't? What self-respecting leftist wouldn't love the thought of taxing—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's right. Thank you, Senator Henderson. The appointment—sorry, the selection by the Labor Party, or the Star Chamber, depending on who you ask in this room—of this new chair of the Productivity Commission has—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Grogan</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The APS is not a Star Chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that interjection, Senator Grogan. You were the one who said you picked her. This is like the famous election night when one of the ABC commentators—</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Maxine McKew.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Maxine McKew, said, 'We've lost the election'—'we've'.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. Whatever. You mixed your words and said the quiet part out loud. In any event, the message is quite clear: Australians beware. We on this side of the chamber have told you it ain't going to be easy under Albanese. It's getting worse, by the way.</para>
<para>People should have a right to keep their money. There are a range of reasons. I could put on a clinic now, with a whiteboard and a marker and laser pointer, as to why high taxes are a bad thing. Let's add inheritance tax to the list. Money belongs to those who earn it, and, in the case of those who've earned it, the right to pass it on to their family and friends or whoever they choose in a testamentary capacity is the same right, in my respectful submission.</para>
<para>We also know that this is not the land of unicorns and fairies. I remember vividly my time—it felt like 4,000 years or so—in local government when a very left-wing local government councillor told me that there were a lot of people who liked paying taxes. 'You know, Alex,' she said, 'there are a lot of people who like paying taxes.' My response to that was, 'Yeah? What's his name?' I don't know anyone—not anyone in their right mind—who does. That's because private individuals use their money much more efficiently than governments do.</para>
<para>This is another example of a grab for money that will just get thrown into a pot of bureaucratic waste. High taxes discourage work. People should have the right, under the system we have, to do what they will with their money. They have a testamentary right to do that. We are now seeing the creep towards an inheritance tax future for this country. Don't take my word for it; take the word of the incoming productivity commissioner, who wrote in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline> back in December:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Growing inheritances pose a quandary for our political leaders. Taxing inheritances makes a lot of sense from both an economic and fairness perspective. Taxes on inheritances drag on the economy less than other taxes, such as income taxes. Inheritances taxes also promote what economists call "horizontal equity"—ensuring that people in similar economic circumstances pay similar amounts of tax.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment: Swift Parrots</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WH</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ISH-WILSON () (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by Senator Wong to the question without notice asked by Senator Rice today relating to the swift parrot.</para></quote>
<para>I also seek leave to table a cartoon by First Dog on the Moon, which I have circulated in the chamber.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave not granted ? That's a shame, because I think it's actually an important historical document. This cartoon encapsulates so well the absurdity and irony of the situation we currently find ourselves in. Last week we had National Threatened Species Day. Senators and MPs had their photos taken—warm and fuzzies—with an endangered animal. The department, again, talked up action on feral cats, something we've heard for five years. There was no mention of new coalmines being approved or of climate change—the elephant in the room—which we know is the No. 1 cause of species extinction.</para>
<para>At this time of extinction crisis and the government's zero extinction pledge, the two creatures most likely to go extinct on our watch, potentially and imminently, are the swift parrot and the maugean skate. What did we get for those? We found out that the scientists who worked so hard for so long on the swift parrot recovery plan weren't even consulted about the information released by the department last week. I want to quote from a scientist who has been working on this, Dr Dejan Stojanovic:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Despite mountains of evidence that logging in Tasmania is the key threat to swift parrots, this government is trying to scapegoat a tiny possum for its inability to stand up to the forest industry.</para></quote>
<para>The conservation advice said clearly that habitat was to be protected outside Regional Forest Agreements, where we know most of the damage is being done.</para>
<para>And what about the maugean skate, down in Macquarie Harbour? According to First Dog—and I would actually agree with this, having spent a lot of time on this in recent months—it looks like the solution might be to create fish farms for maugean skates. Fish farms are responsible for the nitrogen loads and lack of oxygen which are the key contributors to the sad decline of the skate. And there we find ourselves in this irony, which would be funny if it weren't so serious.</para>
<para>I'll now hand over to Senator McKim who will take the remaining time for this contribution.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The swift parrot is a beautiful little bird. It's the fastest parrot in the world and it's being logged into extinction. There are just a few hundred left in the wild, which leaves that species in a perilous and parlous state. And what's the response from the Labor and Liberal parties? Support the industrial logging industry which is destroying swift parrot habitat! Tasmania's magnificent forests are home to this bird, one of only two migratory species of parrot in the world, along with the orange-bellied parrot.</para>
<para>The Labor and Liberal parties want to log its habitat. They have released a recovery plan which has not been signed off by the swift parrot recovery team and which fails abjectly to address the primary threat to the swift parrot, which is logging its habitat. The actions that Minister Plibersek should take, rather than just concentrating on media spin, are clear. If she wants to save the swift parrot, then she should ensure that its habitat is not destroyed by the native forest logging industry. And, while she's at it, if she wants to save the maugean skate, she should get the fish farms out of Macquarie Harbour. That's what we need to see.</para>
<para>Minister Plibersek has committed to zero extinctions, but what does she actually mean by that? Is she actually committed to maintaining viable populations of all existing species in the wild? Or does she think that a captive breeding program in a zoo is enough to meet that commitment? If it's the former, if she is committed to ensuring viable populations of all existing native species in the wild, then she's in as much trouble as the swift parrot and the maugean skate. That's because she's presiding over the slide of those two species into extinction. The swift parrot is being logged into extinction and the maugean skate is being driven into extinction by the industrial salmon industry in Tasmania. I urge people: do not buy Tasmanian salmon, because that is extinction salmon. That industry is knowingly driving the maugean skate, a relic species that has been in existence for many hundreds of millions of years, into extinction. We've got to do better. We must do better. End native-forest logging and get the fish farms out of Macquarie Harbour.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>36</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>37</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>37</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Gallagher, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in accordance with the provisions of the <inline font-style="italic">Public Works Committee Act 1969</inline>, the following proposed work be referred to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Public Works for consideration and report as expeditiously as is practicable:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Department of Defence—Defence fuel transformation program—Tranche 2 facilities project.</para></quote>
<para>I table a statement in relation to the work.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Continuing ACCC Monitoring of Domestic Airline Competition) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1392" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition and Consumer Amendment (Continuing ACCC Monitoring of Domestic Airline Competition) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senator McKenzie, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Competition and Consumer Act 2010, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The aviation sector is one of the most concentrated in the Australian economy, around 94% controlled by QANTAS and Virgin Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The result is insufficient competition relative to the requirements of Australian travellers, often leading to high ticket prices, lack of choice, and, in some instances, poor reliability and customer service.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are also legitimate and ongoing concerns regarding the level of transparency that can exist in a duopolistic environment such as this, including the relationship between the major airlines and government—something which has attracted considerable and warranted attention in recent weeks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the <inline font-style="italic">Competition a</inline><inline font-style="italic">nd Consumer (Price Monitoring—Domestic Air Passenger Transport Direction 2020</inline>, the previous Coalition Government instigated an airline monitoring regime by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This three-year regime, which ran from June 2020 to June 2023, monitored prices, costs and profits relating to the supply of domestic air passenger transport services, and of related goods and services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The COVID-19 pandemic had a significantly negative impact on the Australian aviation sector, with Virgin Australia suspending its Tigerair services in March 2020 and entering voluntary administration the following month.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The monitoring regime was intended by the previous Coalition Government to identify anti-competitive behaviour in what was a rapidly changing sector, and one in which the interests of consumers required enhanced protection.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As Australia emerged from the pandemic, the aviation sector followed, with Virgin coming out of administration, expanded Regional Express (REX) services and the arrival of Bonza.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, the concentrated makeup of the sector, and current issues, mean the aims of the original monitoring regime remain as current as when they were first implemented.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACCC noted in its final <inline font-style="italic">Airline Competition in Australia Report</inline> from June 2023 that "A further direction to the ACCC would provide continued transparency and scrutiny of the industry at a time when new and expanding airlines are still trying to establish themselves."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That Report also observes that "…a lack of effective competition is a key reason why the industry has generally underperformed in terms of meeting the needs of both the travelling public and the parts of the economy that rely on domestic air travel."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite these findings, the Albanese Government has not chosen to continue the monitoring.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition believes this decision comes at the expense of the aviation sector and those it services, which is why it is introducing the<inline font-style="italic"> Competition and Consumer Amendment (Continuing ACCC Monitoring of Domestic Airline</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Competition) Bill 2023</inline> (the Bill).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill largely reproduces the 2020 Direction and resumes the monitoring regime for a further three years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACCC is required to provide a monitoring report to the relevant Minister at least once a quarter, and this report is also to be published on the ACCC's website and tabled in Parliament. Commercial confidentiality will continue to be respected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Coalition notes there are several factors that more than justify reinstating the monitoring regime at this time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian households are battling a severe cost of living crisis, with rising mortgage, rent and utilities expenses meaning cheaper ticket prices are urgently needed by many.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After some uncertainty, the Albanese Government has confirmed the aviation sector will be included in its upcoming Competition Review, but it is yet to provide details of when in the Review process it will be considered or how it will be prioritised against other sectors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally, there has been a lack of transparency surrounding recent dealings between the Government and QANTAS on additional Qatar Airways flights into Australia that ultimately resulted in a beneficial decision for QANTAS at the expense of aviation sector competition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Although this concerned international services, it nevertheless confirms the need for independent and comprehensive scrutiny of the sector by the competition watchdog.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian families and businesses deserve the cheapest, most flexible and reliable aviation sector in the world, and this can only be achieved if it is also the most competitive aviation sector in the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Resuming ACCC monitoring represents the most immediate and effective way to deliver this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ending Native Forest Logging Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1394" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Ending Native Forest Logging Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to repeal the Regional Forest Agreements Act 2002 and to amend the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will allow the introduction of this bill, but we also want it to be noted that it appears to be the same bill as, or at least a bill very similar to, one already introduced by Senator Rice and defeated in this very place on 15 June this year. Accordingly, we assume that it's a reintroduction and nothing more than a stunt by the Greens in an attempt to again draw attention to their flawed and anti-Australian position on native forestry in this country. The time of the Senate should really not be wasted again on any attempts to re-prosecute or re-debate this bill. They should do the right thing by the environment, the economy and all Australians and drop this silly agenda.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Ending Native Forest Logging Bill 2023 </inline>seeks to put an end to native forest logging in Australia. It does so by repealing the <inline font-style="italic">Regional Forest Agreements Act 2002 </inline>and closing a loophole in our national environmental laws. A loophole that entire truckloads of logs have been driven through.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999 </inline>sets out the Commonwealth's responsibility to protect our environment. This Act is supposed to reflect the Australian Government's international commitments to preserve the places we love and protect biodiversity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, under the Regional Forest Agreements, established between state and federal governments, logging operations are given a special exemption. This means that the regulation and protection of Australia's precious forests are effectively left to state governments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These are the same governments who own the Forestry Corporation NSW and so called Sustainable Timber Tasmania—logging agencies who time and time again have recklessly destroyed irreplaceable forests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last month, photos were taken of a giant, centuries-old eucalypt on the back of logging truck in Tasmania. This beautiful old tree had been cut down and taken from a logging coupe in the Florentine Valley.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Giant trees like this one provide critical habitat for hollow tree-dependent species. Any tree larger than 86 metres tall are supposed to be protected by a buffer in which logging is not supposed to occur.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite this clear and important rule, Sustainable Timber Tasmania logged this ancient eucalypt anyway. The agency cited safety as the reason for their reckless destruction. Giant old trees can hollow out and potentially cause a safety risk to people. However, if the agency followed the rules and implemented the protection buffer, risk would be minimised if not eliminated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">State logging agencies cannot be trusted, and neither can their state government owners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The decision by the Western Australian and Victorian governments to end native forest logging by 2024 was a step towards genuine progress.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This was a hard fought victory for the many dedicated forest activists, Traditional Owners, academics, community members and environmental organisations that had been campaigning for the end to native forest logging in these states for decades.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was a win for First Nations heritage and culture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For the threatened species and wildlife that call Victoria and Western Australia's forests home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It was also a win for the climate. Logging native forests in these states was a huge driver of emissions. It is estimated that ending native forest logging in Victoria alone will save 3.35 million tonnes of carbon emissions per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite this victory—there is so much more to do. As long as the regional forest agreements are in place—native forest logging will go unchecked in Tasmania and New South Wales and cause irreversible destruction.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Forests form part of the traditional lands of First Nations people around Australia and are important habitats for their totem species. When governments allow the logging industry to destroy native forests, they are threatening generations of First People's heritage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are also starring down the barrel of a biodiversity crisis. Australia holds the highest number of mammal extinctions globally and this has only been propelled by the regional forest agreements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the commencement of these agreements, Australia has witnessed more than a quarter of federally listed forest-dependent species move closer to extinction. In this time we have also seen 15 forest vertebrate species listed as threatened for the first time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">State logging agencies are continuing to allow the logging of habitat of endangered species such as swift parrots in Tasmania and Greater Gliders in New South Wales. The Commonwealth Government's aim of zero extinctions will continue to be compromised if state logging agencies are permitted to keep destroying habitats that endangered animals rely on for their very survival.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we want to reach zero extinctions, then this Bill must urgently be passed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Protecting Australia's native forests is also critical for our climate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Annual emissions from native forest logging in New South Wales and Tasmania alone are equivalent to the annual emissions of two million cars, or half a million households. It is estimated that ending native forest logging would save approximately 15.5 million tonnes of carbon dioxide per year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repealing the regional forest agreements and ending native forest logging across the country provides a clear pathway for Australia to contribute to reaching our zero emissions targets, limit global heating and protect our climate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The benefits of protecting forests, however, must not be sold to fossil fuel corporations as carbon offsets so they can mine and burn more coal and gas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of realising the benefits of protecting Australia's forests, we need to ensure a just transition for workers and communities out of native forest logging.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For far too long, workers and communities have been lied to by governments, who haven't been honest with them about the inevitability of the end of native forest logging.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Greens have called for greater support for just transitions, including through a National Transition Authority. Communities and workers should be provided with assistance to transition to sustainable industries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The time for native forest logging is over. A poll recently released by the Australia Institute showed that 69% of Australians support extending the ban on native forest logging in NSW and Tasmania.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Yet, the federal Labor government continues to keep their head in the sand and allow for the destruction of Australia's forests and wildlife to continue.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are expected to have the most significant bushfire season since the 2019-2020 black summer fires. This poses an enormous risk to Australia's forests their wildlife, the carbon they store and the communities that rely on them. Logging also increases the fire risk to our forests and nearby communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Labor government cannot risk Australia's native forests being recklessly destroyed by the logging industry any more ahead of the bushfire season.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's native forests need urgent protection—for their role in soaking up and storing carbon, as the traditional lands of First Nations people, for their totems and songlines, water, wildlife and beauty.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is time the Labor Government stop prioritising corporate profits and industry lobbies over people and the environment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's time to end native forest logging in Australia.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister For The Environment And Water</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than midday on Thursday, 14 September 2023, a list of dates since 1 June 2022 of formal meetings with:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Chair of Seafood Industry Australia personally attended by the Minister for the Environment and Water; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) representatives from the Pew Charitable Trusts personally attended by the Minister for the Environment and Water.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in respect of the inquiry by the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee into the provisions of the Water Amendment (Restoring Our Rivers) Bill 2023, the Senate directs the committee to hold public hearings in the Murray-Darling Basin communities of Deniliquin, Griffith, Mildura, Renmark and Shepparton before the committee reports, and invite representatives of these communities to give evidence over a period of a minimum of 4 hours for each community.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aviation Industry</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator McKenzie, I seek leave to amend the motion.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, by no later than 5.30 pm on Monday, 18 September 2023, copies of all advice, briefings or submissions provided by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the Minister relating to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the application by Qatar Airways for additional international flight services to major Australian airports; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) any communications with officials of foreign nations regarding the Albanese Government's decision to refuse additional flights to Qatar Airways.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like the motion of Senator Davey to be recommitted. I thought we were voting on the amendment and not the substantive motion, so I would ask the Senate to recommit that vote.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand Senator Thorpe circulated an amendment which no-one moved, so that has disappeared.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wasn't aware that was happening, so I didn't call for a division.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you still want a recommittal?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, because, otherwise, we can't have a division, can we?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did call this motion twice, so I would urge senators in this place to pay attention.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Duniam</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would seek clarification on whether the Greens are intending to move Senator Thorpe's amendment or it is just about the general—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business motion No. 329 standing in the name of Senator Davey be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:48]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>42</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're now moving to the first of the deferred votes. I remind senators that, yesterday evening, two votes relating to motions to refer matters to committees were deferred. I understand it suits the convenience of the Senate to hold those votes now, and it's my intention to deal with the first motion, moved by Senator Hanson, concerning a proposed reference to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could I ask that paragraphs (a) and (b) be put separately?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. The question is that part (a) of the motion moved by Senator Hanson be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:53]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>6</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>41</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll move now to paragraph (b) of that motion. We're still dealing with Senator Hanson's reference to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs References Committee. The question is that paragraph (b) of the motion moved by Senator Hanson be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:01]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>44</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm going to the second deferred motion from yesterday, on Senate Ayres's closure motion. Are you seeking the call, Senator Ruston?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday afternoon, when this vote was put, there was a little confusion in the chamber in relation to the timing of this. My understanding was that Senator Roberts was in the chamber and was in continuation on this motion. Through the confusion, the call was given to the minister. I think Senator Roberts drew to the attention of the chamber that he was in continuation and sought to be able to finish his remarks on this motion. I would seek for Senator Roberts to be able to finish his contribution on this motion before the matter is put to the chamber.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's correct, Senator Ruston. I spoke to Senator Roberts this morning. I believe leave was sought from the government and the government was happy to give leave. I'm not sure what Senator Roberts wants to do at this point. If he wants to move back to his spot, he can make a contribution.</para>
<para>I do remind all senators in this place that if you are seeking the call or you are unsure of where we are up to, stand and the chair will ask you what it is you are seeking. That is my best advice—seek the call. Senator Roberts? I'm assuming we're giving leave to hear from Senator Roberts?</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the opposition and I thank the government for the opportunity to speak further in continuance. I haven't got my notes with me, and I want to—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just a moment, Senator Roberts. Senator Hanson-Young, are you on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senat</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order: if Senator Roberts wishes to seek leave, he should seek leave. You can't just assume that leave has been granted.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did ask for leave to be granted.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, you said, 'I assume.'</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Th</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, and I assumed leave was granted, and I was nodded at by both the government and the opposition. Senator Chisholm, on the same point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Chisholm</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was just going to say that the government had indicated we were happy to give Senator Roberts leave for this.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just before you resume again, Senator Roberts, I do remind—as feisty as the Senate can get, one of the things that does impress me about this Senate is that it is generous when mistakes are made or when senators miss the call. I just remind all senators of that convention of this Senate. Senator McKim, is this a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is, yes. The point of order, President, with respect, is that any one senator can deny leave. It's not a matter for the government or the opposition. I ask you to put it to the Senate and ask whether leave is granted. That would give any individual senator their right to actually deny Senator Roberts leave.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe that I did that, Senator McKim. And, yes, I did do it in the terms of 'I'm assuming leave is granted'. I looked to the government and there was a 'yes' nod, and I looked to the opposition and there was also a 'yes' nod.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I remind senators there was no objection at the time until I gave Senator Roberts the right to seek—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're meant to be the President for the whole chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, you are being disorderly.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're being disrespectful.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, I'm going to ask you to withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, you have been repeatedly told you have to be a president for the whole chamber, not just for the club.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, I asked you—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Your behaviour is disrespectful to the crossbench.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask you to withdraw that comment.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You have been behaving disrespectfully to the crossbench.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Shoebridge, resume your seat. Senator Scarr, I will come to you. I indicated to the Senate that one of the conventions in this place has been always generous towards senators who miss votes or who miss a call. We often recommit votes. Now, I did ask. I did seek leave. I am asking you, Senator Shoebridge, to withdraw the comment that you made in relation to me, which was disrespectful.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Shoebridge</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I'm going to go to Senator Scarr, who was also on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam President, I'm pleased Senator Shoebridge withdrew, but I just wanted to note I discerned that there was a gap between when you said you assumed leave was granted.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Scarr. I am going to give Senator Roberts the call. Senator Roberts.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I haven't got my notes with me, and I want to be careful with what I say because there are names involved. So, if that opportunity is to speak now, then I decline, but if it is to speak at another occasion, then I will.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll leave you to make those arrangements with other parties in this place. Thank you, Senator Roberts. The question is I'll deal with a deferred vote relating to a—Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I seek some clarification as to whether it's appropriate to vote on this particular motion until contributions have been concluded, given that Senator Roberts is—</para>
<para>An honourable senator: You can't hold it off forever.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not suggesting you hold it off forever. I'm just seeking whether it would be appropriate to wait until after Senator Roberts has finished his contribution to make a vote.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Ruston. As most senators would be aware, this vote is in the hands of the Senate. It is not for me to direct the vote one way or the other. I understand that there is an agreement through the Senate to put this motion now. That's what I intend to do. It is my intention to put the vote, unless there is some other indication from the Senate, which I am not seeing.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston, as I said to you, that is not a decision that I can make.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I was just going to ask you about what is the process for me to seek for the Senate to indicate whether it wishes for the vote to proceed now or whether the Senate would be prepared to wait to have the vote until after Senator Roberts has concluded.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can only put the motion. I'm in the hands of the Senate. If senators agree with the motion, they can vote for it. If they disagree with it, they can vote against it.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand there is no motion before the Senate so I ask that the vote be deferred until after I've finished speaking.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But there is a motion before the Senate, Senator Roberts. It was agreed this morning.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Acting in good faith, I seek leave to withdraw the motion and close the debate.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw the motion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>46</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights: Iran</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Chandler has submitted a proposal under standing order 75 today:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In acknowledging the one year anniversary of the death of Mahsa 'Jina' Amini, the need for the Senate to express its unequivocal opposition to the violent oppression of Iranian women and girls and the arbitrary imprisonment and execution of protesters, and condemn the harassment and intimidation attempts against critics of the Islamic Republic of Iran regime in Australia, the regime's involvement in terrorism, the provision of drones to Russia for use against Ukraine and the use of hostage diplomacy against western nations.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">More than </inline> <inline font-style="italic">the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 16 September 2022, 22-year-old Kurdish Iranian woman Mahsa 'Jina' Amini died after being violently arrested and detained by Iran's so-called morality police. Her alleged crime was not covering her hair in public. For this, she lost her life. Over the last 12 months, tens of thousands of Iranians, including many thousands of young women and girls, have been severely injured, arbitrarily detained, sexually assaulted or killed at the hands of Iranian authorities. Despite this, young Iranians, led by extraordinarily brave women, have courageously continued to fight for their human rights and the future of their country. They have been met with violence and severe repression, but they persist and they will continue to persist. They deserve our support, just as the Islamic Republic of Iran regime deserves the world's condemnation.</para>
<para>The IRI regime is responsible for severe human rights violations. It is responsible for the oppression of women and girls. It is responsible for terrorism not only in its own region but exported across the world. It is responsible for funding and providing direction to designated terrorist organisations including Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. It is responsible for political assassinations and bombings. It is responsible for ongoing attempts to assassinate or abduct its critics living in Western countries. It is responsible for major cybercrime and hacking aimed at damaging Australia and our allies. It is responsible for abducting Western citizens for the purposes of gaining ransom in the form of billions of dollars and gaining leverage over Western nations. It is responsible for providing drones and weaponry to Putin to prolong his invasion of Ukraine and to kill and injure Ukrainian civilians. It is attempting to build nuclear weapons and, along the way, to use its nuclear weapons program to extract funding and concessions from the West. And it is responsible for directly targeting Australians on Australian soil with threats to their safety and to the safety of their family members in Iran. It has done this repeatedly and regularly over the last 12 months in an attempt to silence its critics here in Australia. This is just a partial snapshot of the evil and malignant behaviour of the Islamic Republic of Iran regime.</para>
<para>The fact that the regime is engaged in all of the above behaviour is not in any dispute. It is all known and acknowledged by governments the world over, including our own. Because of the inquiry of the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee, which was supported by all members in this chamber, this behaviour is known to all of us in this parliament. However, I do note that, more than seven months since our committee reported, this government is yet to release its response to the report or to implement the majority of the recommendations made.</para>
<para>It is important that this Senate once again today, on the anniversary of the death of Mahsa Jina Amini, demonstrates our complete and unequivocal condemnation and opposition to all the abhorrent behaviour I have outlined here this afternoon. But it is even more important that Australia takes action to make the regime accountable for all it has done and continues to do that trashes human rights and a rules based international system. The Islamic Republic of Iran regime wants to be able to behave as a criminal and terrorist regime, to kill and injure with impunity but then to be treated as a reputable player in global affairs—to enjoy the trappings of international diplomacy, to reap the rewards of quiet backroom dealings and to be appointed to leadership positions at the United Nations. The most concerning thing is that they are getting away with it. They are growing their influence in the region. They are earning billions from evading sanctions and through ransom. They are still being appointed to United Nations positions.</para>
<para>It is not acceptable that we are still told that it's not appropriate to talk in a public forum about the regime's attempts to threaten Australia and leverage our country. It is the IRI regime that wants to supress public discussion of its behaviour, and we must not give in to that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government supports Senator Chandler's matter of public importance motion, based on our ongoing concern for the Iranian regime's widespread disregard for the human rights of its own people. In the year following Mahsa Jina Amini's death there has been widespread media reporting that Iran's morality police have resumed enforcing mandatory hijab laws, despite earlier indications that they had effectively disbanded. This speaks to the very nature of the situation in Iran. The brutal campaign in the Iranian regime is ongoing, is multifaceted and has long oppressed women, minorities and protestors.</para>
<para>As such, the Albanese government will continue to use every strategy at our disposal to uphold human rights. We will prepare to adaptively and strategically apply pressure on the Iranian regime. Undoubtedly the arrest, detention and ill treatment of Mahsa Amini fortified Australia's stance with Iranian women and girls in their struggle for equality and power. I would like to acknowledge the cumulative Australian government efforts to consistently and forcefully raise our concerns internationally and directly with Iran.</para>
<para>The subsequent February 2023 recommendations from the Senate Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee inquiry on human rights implications of recent violence in Iran will be formally responded to in due course. I'm particularly proud of the Labor government's response on these issues to date. The Albanese government has taken stronger action against Iran on human rights than any previous Australian government. Our work is not done, however, and I would like to reflect on our efforts to date. Our condemnation of Iran has set a benchmark for how Australian governments should hold perpetrators to account.</para>
<para>In terms of international condemnation, Australia has been at the forefront of efforts to call out Iran, in concert with other nations. We've spearheaded efforts to remove Iran from the Commission on the Status of Women. We co-sponsored the successful Human Rights Council resolution to independently investigate human rights violations in Iran. Additionally, the government has raised concerns directly with Iran through diplomatic channels. Foreign Minister Wong spoke with the Iranian foreign minister on 22 March to express Australia's condemnation of Iran's brutal crackdown on protesters, the execution of protestors and the oppression of women.</para>
<para>The Labor government's unequivocal opposition to the Iranian human rights situation can be expressed as follows. The Albanese government condemns the Iranian execution of protestors. We oppose the death penalty in all situations for all people. Pressure will continue to be applied on Iran to establish a moratorium on its use of the death penalty. This sentiment can be repeated in statements directly to the Iranian foreign minister, to the Iranian regime in Teheran and to Iran's representatives in Australia.</para>
<para>We condemn the harassment, surveillance and intimidation of the Iranian community in Australia. As a country, we do not tolerate attempts by foreign regimes to disrupt peaceful protests, which is the heart of Australian democracy. Our criminal offences for espionage and foreign interference are robust and unequivocal. We urge families and individuals who have received threats to report them to the National Security Hotline, the Australian Federal Police or state and territory police. Remember: you have the right to protest and express your views. We will not stand for the suppression of views on human rights abuses.</para>
<para>The Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is a malignant actor that is a threat to the international community as well as well as its own people. I echo the Attorney-General's submission to the Senate enquiry. The position of the IRGC is an organ of a nation-state. It is not covered by the terrorist organisation provisions of the Criminal Code. Despite this, we empathise with those calling for the IRGC to be listed under the Criminal Code. We hear that they want to hold the IRGC accountable for their actions. My electorate office has received many emails and calls expressing this point of view. We are committed to addressing this concern, and that is why we are using tools other than the Criminal Code to take meaningful action. We have imposed sanctions on 27 IRGC-linked individuals and 21 IRGC-linked entities.</para>
<para>Australia's quick and effective response to human rights abuses in Iran illustrates that the Albanese government sees things through. The Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action and Iran autonomous sanctions framework will continue to shape our efforts to condemn the Iranian regime. Ultimately, I am proud to know that my speech today is already and will continue to be backed by the actions of the Labor government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It has been a year since the death of Mahsa 'Jina' Amini, and Iranians continue to face terror and violence under the current regime. Now, this is not a new behaviour for the Iranian regime. In 1988 Iranian authorities acting under the orders of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini summarily and extrajudicially executed thousands of political prisoners across the country. They executed between 2,800 and 5,000 prisoners in at least 32 cities across the country. Today, over 10 people are put to death each week in Iran. Think about that: 10 families ripped apart at the hands of a brutal state, often for doing no more or less than speaking up for democracy, speaking up for freedom. In 2022 alone, 582 people were executed. This year there have already been 474 executions—and those are only the ones that we know about.</para>
<para>This is a regime that, while it perpetrates terror upon its own citizens, is also supporting Russia in its illegal war against Ukraine, including with the supply of drones, which Russia is then using in the commission of war crimes.</para>
<para>Too many innocent Iranians have lost their lives, have been repressed, have been silenced, and too many families have grieved and felt loss and pain under this regime. The endless persecution of peaceful protesters continues as we sit here in the Senate. Iran's so-called 'morality police' still arrest women for not acting in accordance with their interpretations of the law. They still place people within environments that lead to their torture and their murder.</para>
<para>Now, let us look with a clear eye upon the actions of this government in relation to Iran. This government will often proudly claim that it has done more on Iran than any previous government. Well, when the bar is as low as that set by the last mob that is nothing to crow about. The reality of the Albanese government's response to the humanitarian disaster in Iran and the persecution of the Iranian people is that it was too slow, it was grudgingly enacted and it has continued to fail to keep pace with the contemporary evolutions on the ground. It has been months since the foreign minister has made a statement about Iran. In fact—and they've recently been called out for this publicly—the foreign minister has not criticised Iran since she last condemned the May execution of Majid Kazemi alongside other democracy activists. That condemnation was overdue, but since then there has been nothing—absolutely nothing.</para>
<para>We have not expanded our Magnitsky sanctions against Iran since March of this year. This is not a fair reflection of the urgency with which the Iranian community is lobbying the Australian government for action. Every day Australian Iranians across the country are working—they are giving their time, labour and energy—to ensure that the cause of democracy, freedom of women and life in Iran is something with which this government has to contend. In that continual work the Australian Greens are with them, proudly in solidarity. The government must stop resting on its laurels here. It should get up off the mat and get to work alongside this movement for women, for life and for freedom.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Woman, life and freedom—that is, as Senator Steele-John alluded to, the cry for freedom that so many protesters in Iran and across the world are using. At the outset one of the reasons I want to speak on this matter of public importance is to convey to the Australian Iranian diaspora that every single senator in this place—and I'm sure every single member of the other place—stands with you in solidarity knowing that 16 September is going to be a very difficult day, because that is the day when Mahsa Jina Amini died after being violently arrested and detained by Iran's so-called morality police. There will be gatherings across Australia to commemorate the occasion. More than anything I think we in this place have an obligation to say to the Australian Iranian diaspora that we have not forgotten, we are still desperately concerned about the situation in Iran and there must be change—woman, life, freedom.</para>
<para>Those not familiar with the awful circumstances that occurred in Iran over the last 12 months, and before, can do no better than read the <inline font-style="italic">Situation of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran</inline> report prepared for the Human Rights Council and the United Nations General Assembly. That basically contains a roll call of atrocities committed by the authorities in Iran. Paragraph 13 of that reports describes how Jina Mahsa Amini was arrested by the morality police on 13 September 2022 while on a family visit to Tehran. Eyewitness accounts and other evidence indicate that she was violently beaten while being forcibly transferred to a detention centre. Reports, including images of Jina Mahsa Amini in the intensive care unit, suggest that she was assaulted on the head. Within hours of her arrest she fell into a coma and was transferred to Kasra Hospital. She was officially declared dead on 16 September 2022.</para>
<para>The United Nations report goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The death of Jina Mahsa Amini was not an isolated event but the latest in a long series of extreme violence against women and girls committed by the Iranian authorities …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Special Rapporteur regrets that the State authorities have failed to conduct any independent, impartial and transparent investigation into the death of Jina Mahsa Amini and consistently denied any misconduct or wrongdoing on their part.</para></quote>
<para>Paragraph 21 talks about the use of unlawful lethal force against protesters. Paragraph 25, on killings of children, reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At least 64 children have reportedly been killed by security forces since the start of the protests, five of them, four girls and one boy, were beaten to death.</para></quote>
<para>Paragraph 28 is on the overrepresentation of ethnic and religious minorities in killings. Paragraph 31 is on violence and killings during mourning ceremonies. Paragraph 32 refers to injuries of protesters and denial of medical care. Paragraph 34 is about mass arrests at peaceful protests, noting:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These include dozens of human rights defenders, at least 600 students, 45 lawyers, 576 civil society activists and at least 62 journalists.</para></quote>
<para>In conclusion, please know that every senator in this chamber is standing in solidarity with our Australian-Iranian diaspora on the occasion of this anniversary.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 16 September 2022 Mahsa Amini, with dark-brown eyes and a gentle smile, died after succumbing to her injuries caused by a brutal detainment by the Iranian morality police on the charge of violating Iran's mandatory dress code. She was just 22. She left a devastated family, and the promise of a life completely unfulfilled. Mahsa became the face of the movement that called for fundamental human rights under the three simple words that have been repeated here in the chamber and continue to echo around the world: woman, life, freedom.</para>
<para>One year on, we remember this tragedy and we continue to push for justice for her and her family. I stand in solidarity with my colleagues in this chamber and the other place, and I acknowledge the very significant contribution led by Senator Scarr, who cited a report. In a country such as ours—a free democracy—we take the right to report, the right to investigate, and the right to put these things on the record in our own countries and internationally for granted. But a document that records historical evidence of the kind that you put on the record is a very, very powerful tool, and an ever-present reminder that cannot be erased of what happened—sadly, not just to Mahsa Amini but also to so many women and children in Iran.</para>
<para>I say to the Iranian-Australian diaspora, in the same vein indicated by Senator Scarr, that we will continue to agitate for democratic principles everywhere in the world, and we will not forget Mahsa Amini. We haven't forgotten, we won't forget and we will, carefully, act. That is a really important part of what good governments do. We can't afford simply to be protesters that continue to protest forever. We have to build multilateral relationships of trust. We have to deliver the kinds of opportunities for economic growth, civic education, possibility and partnerships that are necessary to do the hard work of generating democracy in countries where it has either been dismissed, been trashed or never really fully arrived and developed.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is deeply concerned with the actions of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The Iranian regime's flagrant and widespread disregard for the most fundamental human rights of its own people is a deep contradiction of the values that the Australian government and its citizens hold dear: democracy, human rights, suffrage and freedom of religion. These are fundamentals in our society, and they rightfully colour our relations with all other nations. Australia is a nation proud of our values. We're not afraid to hold that conviction, if necessary, in contrast to and against nations that show brazen contempt of those critical values. Australia stands with the people of Iran as they courageously demand full respect for their human rights despite the threats against them.</para>
<para>On a personal level, I am a steadfast supporter of women and international human rights. I note that Iran is in fact a signatory to the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and as a signatory it should honour the ideas, the values and the principles that underpin that document and to which it has already agreed. It was a good idea for the Iranian people to sign up in support of the United Nations. It is a good idea for them now to implement the values to which they remain signatory.</para>
<para>Australia is holding the perpetrators of the Islamic Republic of Iran to account in an orderly, multilateral way. We are certainly at the forefront of efforts to remove Iran from the Commission on the Status of Women, demonstrating Australia's practice of upholding those democratic values in the international arena. We cosponsored and advocated for the successful Human Rights Council resolution establishing an independent investigation into human rights violations in Iran, and the Australian government has imposed three packages of sanctions. Our work is not done, and today— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to support this matter of public importance, and I welcome the fact it is something that has brought all sides of this Senate chamber to a common position. Far too often, people are somewhat cynical about politics in Australia and even this establishment of the parliament. But, for those who question the value of a plural liberal democracy, I say that 'plural' means that you're allowed to have views that may differ from those of the party holding government or other people in society. It means that you are allowed to gather together to express those views and that your rights as an individual are respected by law and by others in the society. It means that you have the back of your fellow citizens and the best interests of your government. A democracy—a true democracy—means that, if your government is not living up to those expectations, you and your fellow citizens have the opportunity to remove them. It may come as a surprise to many who have not carefully studied the actions of other forms of government, but that's not the universal experience of people in all countries around the world. When people talk about totalitarian regimes, you've just got to look at how they treat the individuals within their nation, their own people, to understand the difference between life here in Australia or another plural liberal democracy and life in a totalitarian state.</para>
<para>I will read from the foreword to the report of the inquiry that my colleague Senator Chandler initiated through the Senate foreign affairs and trade committee, in relation to what happened after the death of this young woman:</para>
<quote><para class="block">State security forces—</para></quote>
<para>of the Islamic Republic of Iran—</para>
<quote><para class="block">have used live ammunition and seemingly indiscriminate force against civilians. Hundreds have been killed and many thousands wounded. Tens of thousands have been arrested. A number have been sentenced to death—some already executed—without access to a fair trial. Confessions are extracted through torture. Adults and children are subjected to horrific physical and sexual abuse in prison. The evidence presented to the committee painfully illustrates the wholesale maltreatment of a nation by the very authorities whose job it is supposed to be to safeguard and protect the Iranian population.</para></quote>
<para>We need to value and protect what we have here in Australia, but we also need to speak up for people who do not have the benefits and security of what we have here. That's because that pattern of behaviour is not isolated to this one incident.</para>
<para>In 1999, in 2009, in 2017-18, in 2019, in 2020 and now in 2022, we have seen a similar pattern of people seeking to speak up for their right to hold an opinion, to gather together and to demand, for example, the basic things that we take for granted, such as freedom of the press, only to be attacked by their own government. The forces which are meant to be there to protect and enable are in fact used to oppress and to preserve power for the few, and to deny the people their rights. The figures are that in this most recent round of violence over 500 people have been killed and more than 20,000 detained arbitrarily through this system.</para>
<para>This is a nation that should not be welcomed into the international community under the current regime. It's disappointing to see bodies like the United Nations appointing representatives of the Islamic Republic of Iran to bodies such as, for example, the United Nations Human Rights Council—to actually chair parts of that council. There is such contradiction in that action and we need to continue speaking out against that. We need to continue speaking out against their overt support for groups such as Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad, and for those who would visit terrorism on others. A nation that will take hostages for diplomatic and political outcomes is not a nation that we should encourage or support in any way, and Iran's support for Russia's illegal war in Ukraine through provision of drones is something that continues to be condemned.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the discussion has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that the President has received the following letter, dated 12 September 2023, from Senator McKim:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today the Australian Greens propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is in the public interest for the government to release all information related to the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework and commit to making publicly available all recommendations from the review of the NDIS, with both critical in guiding the decision-making of government as to the future of the NDIS."</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator McKim, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is in the public interest for the government to release all information related to the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework and commit to making publicly available all recommendations from the review of the NDIS, with both critical in guiding the decision-making of government as to the future of the NDIS.</para></quote>
<para>Today, I am proud to bring to the Senate a matter of significant importance to the disability community: the future of the NDIS. Let me provide some context for the Senate this afternoon.</para>
<para>Right now, as we sit here, the disability community is attempting to get from the government an answer to a simple question: what did premiers, chief ministers and the Prime Minister sign up to at the April National Cabinet meeting in relation to our NDIS? All we know is that those powerful people got into a room and made a decision on something called the financial sustainability framework for the NDIS. This was behind closed doors and we know that subsequently, in the budget, it was confirmed that it would constrain the expected projected funding pathway for the NDIS to about eight per cent annually, and that the government, on the back of that, would book $59 billion in savings. That's the single-largest so-called 'saving' in its budget. There was no detail on what the framework includes and no detail on how the government will achieve the reduction in the predicted spending trajectory.</para>
<para>The lack of transparency and detail was, from the moment it was announced—blindsiding as it was to the disability community—a source of extreme concern among that community. We here in the Greens have been calling on the government to own up and to release the detail of that framework from the moment it was announced. We want made clear what the impact of this framework will be, not only on the plans of the nearly 600,000 participants of the NDIS but also on their friends and family members—the people who they love—and on the support workers who work with them. What will it mean for them also?</para>
<para>And what have we had in response from this government? We have had gaslighting. We have had dismissal. We have had derogatory commentary from those running the NDIS. We have had an attempt from this government to convince disabled people that there's nothing to see here, folks; there's absolutely nothing to worry about, because efficiencies and more-effective administration will achieve $59 billion in spending reduction—nonsense! You are treating us as mugs and we are done with it, absolutely done with it.</para>
<para>The minister continues to express that the NDIS has become a 'life raft in an ocean'. Yet in recent weeks it has become clear that the Labor government's plan is not to build a bigger boat; their plan is to kick us into the sea. And we will not sit by and take it. We will not sit by while you plunge neurodivergent children back into the ocean. We will not sit by while you force disabled people with psychosocial disabilities back into the institutions, back into the absolute abyss from which we collectively liberated ourselves through the establishment of the NDIS. We will not go back. We will not go back to a time when our supports were defined by what people in government thought we should be given—what was convenient for them, what was efficient and effective for them. We will not go back to a time when disabled women and children were locked in institutions, unable to access their rights as human beings. We will not go back to a time when we fought day after day for basics like the wheelchair that we sit in. We will not go back to the time when we rationed the number of showers that we took per week, just so we could balance somebody's budget in Treasury. We will not. If you believe for a second that the disability community will sit by and let you take our NDIS from us, then we will see you at the ballot box.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing this motion in relation to the NDIS. I'm aware that the Minister representing the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme has outlined that the government has claimed public interest immunity over the document requested by the Greens political party, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. I do thank Senator McKim for this matter of urgency motion, because the NDIS is something that, as a Labor senator, I am so incredibly proud of. Of course, this is the 10th year that the NDIS has been in existence. It started I think on 1 July, with four trial sites, under a Labor government.</para>
<para>Back in 2022 this government began a large-scale independent review of the National Disability Insurance Scheme. The review came about after the coalition neglected the scheme for nine years when they occupied government. The NDIS is a transformational scheme. We know that. It's a scheme that has increased freedom and control for more than 600,000 participants across the country. It is a scheme we should all be deeply proud of and a scheme we should all fight to protect and advance. The NDIS is a life-changing piece of economic and social policy, and it is our duty to make sure it is here for generations to come.</para>
<para>The review of the NDIS had one underlying purpose: to ensure that the scheme is viable and relevant for many more years to come. Through the review, 2,000 Australians shared their experience with the scheme, from access issues to issues that they face daily. Through the review, this government has listened to the concerns of the community and participants and recognised that genuine change is required to deliver a scheme that works for people with disability. The 2023-24 budget invested a total of $910 million over four years to improve the NDIS and support and safeguard people with a disability and the scheme. This includes investing in the capacity of the NDIA, improving the agency's capability and systems to improve the experience of participants. I know Senator Steele-John, who spoke just before me, knows through his work in the Joint Standing Committee on the NDIS that this was an issue that was constantly part of submissions about participants being able to work with the NDIA access the scheme. It was about the experience participants were having under the former government.</para>
<para>To support these changes, the government is investing significantly into capability, better planning and flexibility, something that was also called for. To ensure the NDIA can help deliver the best outcomes for participants and to allow for the systems which will result in better consistency and equity in decision-making, the government is providing a $429.5 million investment to the scheme, with a $73.4 million investment to better support participants to manage their plan within budget, including assistance from the NDIA during the year and holding plan managers, support coordinators and providers to account. In acknowledging that participants are dealing with lifelong disabilities, the government is providing $63.8 million to ensure the scheme takes a lifetime approach to ensuring plans are more transferable and flexible for life events. The government is providing $56.4 million to strengthen supported independent living decisions, including by introducing a home-and-living panel with highly trained staff to improve consistency across decisions. The funding will allow for updated guidelines for planners to improve participants' ability to live independently. To support the quality and effectiveness of services provided to participants, the government is providing $29.3 million. This funding will improve— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on this urgency motion by the Australian Greens. I say first of all to my colleague Senator Steele-John: bravo. One of the things that, as minister, I always sought to do when dealing with everybody across both chambers was to make sure that we told the truth. We didn't politically play games with this scheme—certainly on this side of the chamber—but I guarantee nobody on that side of the chamber ever thought they would hear the Australian Greens talking about the NDIS minister in terms of gaslighting and perpetrating a cruel fraud. That is absolutely the case, and I endorse everything that Senator Steele-John has said—not wanting to damage his reputation irreparably, mind you!</para>
<para>But it is time for some truth-telling, and the truth on the NDIS is this: it was created in the spirit of bipartisanship—in fact, multipartisanship. It should be one of the best social programs in this nation's history, but mistakes were made at its creation which are rebounding and causing significant problems today. Those mistakes were made by both sides of the chamber at the time. Before the 2013 election, it was implemented too quickly, so the largest social policy reform since Medicare was rushed, the agency literally had no staff members and there were no procedures or policies. That was the first mistake. The second mistake was embedded in the legislation, which didn't provide the federal government of the day with the ability to control either lever of cost: the number of participants or the cost per participant. That was deliberately implemented by Labor. We didn't pick it up at the time, but that was clearly designed so that we couldn't change their scheme. Well, guess what? It has reverberated badly on Minister Shorten and the Labor Party now, because they can't either. A bit more truth-telling—that's the second thing.</para>
<para>The third is that the intergovernmental agreements are fundamentally flawed. Yes, my side of politics implemented most of them, but the clear intent of all states and territories and the federal government in the federated scheme was that it was to be a fifty-fifty cost split. It is now, I believe, a split of somewhere over 70 per cent to the Commonwealth government and 30 per cent to the states and territories. And that four per cent cap for states and territories was a big mistake.</para>
<para>Before the election, when I was minister, I offered the hand of bipartisanship yet again to Bill Shorten. I was very grateful for his support for the two pieces of legislation—which I don't think any other minister achieved, and I did that in the time Bill Shorten has been in government—for protections for participants and the Participant Service Guarantee and safeguards. I'm grateful for his support—which was very quiet, but support nonetheless—but he chose to politicise this scheme relentlessly. When blind Freddy could have read the budget papers over many years to know what I said and what my predecessors had said—that this was a scheme in trouble and it needed bipartisan support to change the legislation in this place so that the federal government could control the scheme—Bill Shorten did what he did best. He had the rhetorical flourish. He used great invective, saying that I was lying, that it wasn't the truth, and that there was no sustainability issue for this. Well, guess what? There was. He knew it, I knew it, and the Australian Greens knew it.</para>
<para>Instead of dealing with the issue, he has had this 18-month review, which will not solve the problem. In fact, it sounds like so far it's finding the same problems that the previous 30 reviews found. At the moment, from Professor Bonyhady's statements, it sounds like they're really not going to solve the problem, which is changing the intergovernmental agreements, getting the states to pay their way and giving the federal government the ability to control the levers. By doing that, they've implemented—this is the subject of the Greens urgency motion—a sustainability framework which they are being completely non-transparent on, although they have admitted it doesn't actually exist yet.</para>
<para>Somehow, this mythical sustainability framework for the NDIS is supposed to reach eight per cent cuts, and that is what they are trying to hide—how this framework that they've agreed with the states and territories will make the eight per cent cuts and nearly $60 billion cuts to this scheme. There is only one way this government can possibly cut $60 billion in the growth of the NDIS budget, and that is by either cutting participant numbers or cutting their plans. There is no other way, and shame on you for not being honest and dealing with the problems that you helped create. <inline font-style="italic">(Time exp</inline><inline font-style="italic">ired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise here in support of Senator McKim's urgency motion. Senator McKim and I obviously have vastly different political views, but there is one thing that we can always agree on, and that is transparency. Why is that? It's because transparency—what does it do?—builds trust. All the Australians that are suffering disability desperately need support via the NDIS. I am not doubting that. But, unfortunately, the Albanese government's inability to constrain the cost and restrict the rorts surrounding this scheme is threatening its viability. This is bad news. It's obviously bad news for Australians, but it's bad news for those that are reliant on the scheme as well. There's obviously one other group that it's bad news for—it's bad news for everyone who is paying their taxes. Why is that? Because it's a massive cost.</para>
<para>The NDIS minister, Mr Bill Shorten, in April said that the NDIS had 'lost its way'. Minister Shorten, that is nothing short of mastery. He is a master of understatement. That's what he is. The NDIS is estimated to cost taxpayers a staggering $41.9 billion this financial year. Astonishingly, though, that number is tipped to skyrocket to $89.4 billion a year within the next decade. What does this scheme do? I'll tell you what it does: it puts pink batts to shame. It is an uncapped, demand-driven program that, if left unchecked, will drive our nation into the ground financially. Obviously, $89 billion is not a small sum.</para>
<para>In my office I have been contacted—inundated, actually—by whistleblowers calling out dangerous and unqualified providers who every single day are milking the cash cow that is the NDIS. Where are the checks and balances? Where are they? It is estimated that unscrupulous providers are defrauding the scheme to the tune of $300 million a year. You know what? That's probably an underestimation.</para>
<para>With so many people reliant on the NDIS and with so much taxpayer money involved—it's going to be close to a hundred billion dollars this decade—it is essential that the recommendations of the independent review be made public. Mr Shorten must not keep the review secret and only drip-feed his favourite recommendations. That's not the way to do it. He must not bury the things he deems to be just too hard. If the NDIS has lost its way, as the minister has said before—and I agree with him; I think clearly it has lost its way—then obviously $41.9 billion of public funding has also lost its way. The NDIS review, along with all of its recommendations, do not belong to the government. I'll tell you who it belongs to, Mr Deputy President: it belongs to the Australian taxpayer.</para>
<para>I keep calling for transparency in this place, but we're yet to receive it. With transparency we can ensure the long-term viability of the NDIS. This issue is too important for the government to deal with it in the dark. It's just too important. People need this service. This service needs to be here long into the future, and we need to make sure that it's sustainable. That's what we need: sustainability. I probably won't say this often but I'm going to say it today: I thank Senator McKim for this motion. There is one thing that he and the Greens and I will always agree on, and that thing is transparency. It is a question of holding the government to account and of making sure Australian taxpayers get looked after and get what they are paying for.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to begin by thanking my colleague Senator Steele-John for his passionate advocacy for disabled people. In this instance, I thank him for campaigning against the government's plan to limit the budget of, and hence access to, the NDIS, and against their sneaky unwillingness to be upfront about the rationale behind their cap on spending. What this matter of urgency is calling for is pretty basic, and essential if you are serious about treating disabled people with dignity. It calls on the government to release all the information related to the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework and commit to making publicly available all the recommendations from the review of the NDIS. This information is critical in the decision-making of government as to the future of the NDIS and critical for the community, in particular the disabled community, to know the basis on which decisions are being made.</para>
<para>The Greens, of course, want to see an increase in funding for the NDIS. Right now, too many disabled people are unable to get the support they need to live a decent life. But, as Senator Steele-John has said, Labor's announcement to have a target for spending growth is sounding a lot like a cap on the NDIS. The notion of a cap is a broken promise from the Albanese government, and it is causing tremendous concern in the disabled community. If the federal government continues to limit growth to eight per cent, this announcement will see over $50 billion less allocated to the NDIS over the decade, and defunding the NDIS by this amount is completely unacceptable. The NDIS is succeeding. It's providing disabled people with the opportunity to participate in the community, to go to work and to enjoy the basics in life, like having a shower. There are social and economic benefits to the NDIS. Money invested has a positive return for the economy and, importantly, for the community.</para>
<para>The NDIS Review has had input from very many people in the disabled community, and it is not fair on them—it is disrespectful to them—if the recommendations and all of that information are not released. People were hopeful that this review was going to end up with a clear trajectory for change, but instead they are deeply disappointed that big decisions that are going to impact the future of the scheme are being made without being upfront, transparent or accountable. Decisions are being made behind closed doors.</para>
<para>There are more than four million disabled people in Australia, and, just like everyone else, they have a right to be supported to live full and active lives. But there still so many significant barriers in our society. Disabled people are continuing to fall through the cracks and are being denied the same rights that other people have, and successive governments have perpetuated discrimination against disabled people, often denying them access to inclusive education, meaningful employment, adequate services and the support they need.</para>
<para>As well as what's going on here with the NDIS, we have another clear example of this, and that's the government's approach to income support. Right now, millions of people are barely scraping by on youth allowance, older people are increasingly becoming homeless, it's harder than ever for people who have a disability to access the disability support pension, and people with disabilities who are on JobSeeker are having to survive on payments way below the poverty line and cannot lead a decent life. They are people who are not able to go out and just get a full-time job. They are people who have particular needs that need to be catered for. They are often not able to access the NDIS, and they are living on poverty payments. Our social security system is broken. Over 43 per cent of JobSeeker recipients have only a partial capacity to work, meaning they are disabled and/or sick. We've heard countless stories from disabled people on JobSeeker who are being forced to fulfil mutual obligations or risk losing their payment, despite being limited in their ability to work and at times passed over by employers due to their disability.</para>
<para>We as Greens know that our social safety net is failing disabled people, so we have to call on the government to fully resource the NDIS so that it meets the needs of disabled people and their families and carers and to have an income support system that fully allows disabled people to be able to get by and flourish.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The alarm bells are ringing for the NDIS, and there are large numbers of disabled people in Australia who can hear them ringing loud and clear. One of the clangers that they and many others can hear is Labor's decision to cut about $59 billion out of the NDIS over the coming decade. That was the largest single so-called savings measure in the budget that the Labor Party handed down this year. We know that. We also know that at the April National Cabinet meeting a financial sustainability framework was agreed to and adopted by all state premiers and territory chief ministers and the Prime Minister. But what we don't know is exactly what is contained in the financial sustainability framework. That is the issue here, and that's why so many people are so worried about what Labor is proposing for the NDIS.</para>
<para>Of course, disabled Australians had no idea that this was coming down the line—no idea at all. People would expect cuts to the NDIS from a Liberal government, but they didn't expect them from a Labor government. I remind the Labor Party that they promised to co-design with disabled Australians. The four million Australians who are disabled have the same right to a good and dignified life as anyone else in the country. That's what they expect. That's what they demand, and rightly so. It's our job as policymakers to make sure that we deliver on that right.</para>
<para>The NDIS review had input from many disabled Australians, so people were hopeful that the scheme had a clear trajectory for positive change. Instead, it looks like big decisions—big budget decisions—that are going to impact on the future of the scheme are actually being made without considering the inputs into the review. That is simply not good enough, and it is particularly not good enough from a Labor government.</para>
<para>The NDIS provides large numbers of disabled Australians the opportunity to participate fully in the community—to go to work, to have basic supports that many of them need, to have their houses cleaned, to keep themselves clean. There are massive social and economic benefits to the NDIS. Money invested in the NDIS has a positive return for our economy, but more importantly, it actually supports people positively to maximise the potential of their lives and to be able to lead good and dignified lives. That is what is at risk here from a Labor Party who simply don't seem to understand.</para>
<para>We need some clarity out of the government about exactly what is going on here. It is not good enough to keep any Australian in the dark, but particularly when so many disabled Australians rely on the NDIS for critical supports in their lives. The government has to be upfront, and it could start by releasing the financial sustainability framework and all of the associated information and documentation around it so we can all understand the way the government is taking this issue forward and what the government's plans around this issue are. People are worried, and worry causes stress and ill-health. The NDIS wasn't designed to cause ill-health; it was actually designed to help people and support people. That's what it was designed to do.</para>
<para>So I say to the Labor Party: if you want to stay faithful to the principles of the NDIS, if you want to stay faithful to the fundamental rationale behind the NDIS, come clean. Take this stress and this worry away from the large numbers of disabled Australians who are worried—rightly and understandably so. We need transparency and we need a full commitment to supporting the NDIS.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I'd like it recorded in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> that Labor opposed the motion but don't require a division.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It will be recorded.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senate Procedure Committee</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>55</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Procedure Committee, I present the second report of 2023 of the committee, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>The report deals with three matters. First, Senator Hanson asked the committee to consider removing the requirement for four or more senators, in addition to the proposer, to stand to indicate support for matters of public importance and urgency motions prior to those items being discussed or debated. Standing order 75 gives special precedence to a discussion or debate at the relevant time not by a majority decision, as is normally the case, but at the request of five or more senators. The committee considers that threshold appropriate and does not agree that the requirement should be removed. However, the committee endorsed an opposition suggestion to make it clear that the requirement for senators to stand in support should be interpreted as indicating support for the discussion or debate taking place rather than necessarily indicating support for the substance of the proposal. The committee has asked that the procedural wording for the chair to report proposals under standing order 75 be amended to clarify that point.</para>
<para>The second matter dealt with in the report is the use of cultural artefacts in debate. The committee agreed that senators wishing to use cultural artefacts as part of proceedings should seek prior agreement from the President and Deputy President. If required, this information would then be passed on to the appropriate Temporary Chair.</para>
<para>The final matter is the consideration of a recommendation of the <inline font-style="italic">Set the </inline><inline font-style="italic">standard</inline> report. The report recommended a review of standing orders 'with a view to eliminating sexism and other forms of exclusion in the chamber'. The committee notes earlier reviews that have dealt with, for instance, the removal of gender-specific language. The recommendation from <inline font-style="italic">Set the </inline><inline font-style="italic">standard</inline> intersects with the work of the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Standards, which recommended the adoption of behavioural codes for parliamentarians and for their staff, and behavioural standards for the parliamentary precincts and other parliamentary workplaces. The standing orders provide a framework designed in part to prevent offensive language and conduct directed towards other senators. As outlined in the report, the committee considers that at this stage the language of the standing orders and the practice of the Senate in applying presidents' rulings are sufficiently flexible to enable that framework to cover matters identified in the report of the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Standards and evolving community standards.</para>
<para>The committee remains open to assessing the need for changes to the language and interpretation of standing orders as the final recommendations of <inline font-style="italic">Set the </inline><inline font-style="italic">standard</inline> are implemented. These include the passage of legislation to establish the Parliamentary Workplace Support Service, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Commission and the consequent formalisation of the codes of conduct for parliamentarians and their staff.</para>
<para>The joint committee also made observations about the interaction of parliamentary privilege with the scope and functions of the proposed IPSC. The committee suggests that presiding officers and the procedure committees of the two houses should be consulted on that question as the design of the IPSC is finalised.</para>
<para>The committee also discussed the importance of developing and applying appropriate sanctions for breaches of standing orders, noting the different procedural landscapes of the two houses. Part of the process of designing the IPSC will involve consideration of a sanctions regime to sit alongside the behavioural codes and standards. The committee will give further consideration to these matters when that work is more advanced.</para>
<para>The President and I are committed to working with temporary chairs, with the chairs of committees, with party leaders and whips, and with Independent senators to ensure that any changes to the content or interpretation of standing orders that emerge from these processes are well understood. I commend the report to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later. I look forward to progress on those matters, I might add. They have been very slow.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Public Works Joint Committee, Intelligence and Security Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>56</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Public Works Joint Committee, I present the 6th report of 2023. On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, I present a statement of the committee relating to the review of Foreign Influence Transparency scheme amendment rules 2023.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>56</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the government response to the report of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee on biosecurity measures and responses preparedness and seek leave to incorporate the document in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Adequacy of Australia's biosecurity measures and response preparedness, in particular with respect to foot-and mouth disease and varroa mite.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">September 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In troduction</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government welcomes the opportunity to respond to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee report: Adequacy of Australia's biosecurity measures and response preparedness, in particular with respect to foot-and mouth disease and varroa mite, tabled on 8 December 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government takes very seriously the increasing risk of pest and disease entry into the country as the climate changes and global trade and travel patterns shift. While Australia remains free of foot and mouth disease, the Australian Government is working with other governments, industry and internationally to mitigate the risks to Australia of further spread of the disease and strengthen our collective preparedness and response capability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will continue to work with other governments and industry on the current eradication response for varroa mite and will consider the views of the Committee as this work progresses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's response to the report is set out below. The response addresses the recommendations contained in the report and takes into account additional contextual information provided by the Committee subsequent to the report's release in relation to the intent of some recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry and the New South Wales Department of Primary Industries, publicly report on findings from their investigations into the origin of the varroa mite incursion in the Williamtown area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) agrees increasing public information on the source of the incursion is important for public confidence and informing future actions. As was noted in the inquiry, this work may not be conclusive. Releases of information will also need to have regard to the fact that some specific details of the investigations being led by New South Wales Department of Primary Industries (NSW DPI) may lead to formal compliance action. DAFF will work with NSW DPI, on appropriate information releases, noting the origin investigations are not limited to the Williamtown area.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry review its food import risk frameworks to ensure that they are fit for purpose and that decisions under the frameworks are accelerated where required.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry is responsible for assessing the biosecurity risks associated with the import of a range of goods from overseas. Regular reviews are undertaken, and risk analyses may be conducted, in response to new information about biosecurity risks, or to an import proposal. These reviews aim to modernise Australia's biosecurity measures for imported products to reflect the current and future trading environment. They take into account new and relevant peer-reviewed scientific information, international standards, relevant changes in industry practices and operational practicalities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry prioritises the enhancement of screening and assessment systems to facilitate the timely. processing of mail and cargo entering Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Enhanced biosecurity detection capabilities continue through the deployment and trial of new technology and methods of detection for biosecurity risk material at our airports, air cargo facilities, seaports and mail centres. This enhanced technology is expected to improve the detection of biosecurity risk material when compared to current screening technologies and supports more efficient and accurate assessments on the presence of biosecurity risk material.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government consults with freight, shipping, port and biosecurity stakeholders, including Australia Post, to develop priorities for the implementation and funding of new and emerging technologies into mail and cargo biosecurity screening systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) works with industry and partner agencies, both domestically and internationally, on the identification, development and implementation of new and emerging technologies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Specifically, DAFF engages regularly with international trade and logistics service providers through its Cargo Consultative Committee to consider practical and strategic measures that ensure effective biosecurity outcomes are delivered without unnecessary impediments to trade.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends the Australian Government, in partnership with industry and state and territory governments, commits to long-term and sustainable funding to the National Bee Pest Surveillance Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) recognises the importance of a sustainable funding model for ensuring the delivery of biosecurity outcomes. DAFF has funded Plant Health Australia to develop a national plant health surveillance co-investment model as part of its scoping of a Nationally Integrated Surveillance System for Plant Pests (NISSPP), and will support the implementation of the NISSPP, once finalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government also supports Rural Research and Development Corporations (RDCs) with matched expenditure on eligible research and development. RDCs such as Hort Innovation are also funding programs in relation to bee pest surveillance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government reviews the balance between sentinel hives and bait hives as part of the National Bee Pest Surveillance Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has funded Plant Health Australia (PHA) to develop a national plant health surveillance co-investment model as part of its scoping of a Nationally Integrated Surveillance System for Plant Pests (NISSPP). The government will consider the implementation of the NISSPP, once finalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Governments are also considering how the current varroa response experience can help inform future surveillance programs noting that all national cost-shared responses under the Emergency Plant Pest Response Deed (EPPRD) must undertake an after-action review led by PHA and involving both government and industry parties. The outcomes of the review and the response itself will be used to inform the National Bee Pest Surveillance Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends the Australian Government, in partnership with other stakeholders, ensures that adequate funding is provided to the National Bee Biosecurity Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government recognises the importance of a sustainable funding model for the National Bee Biosecurity Program (NBBP) to ensure the delivery of program outcomes. The NBBP is an industry and government collaborative partnership: Plant Health Australia (PHA) provides national management and governance, the honey bee industry provides funding and resources via a honey levy, and state and territory governments deliver activities and provide regulatory support which includes significant in-kind and financial support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The responsibility of maintaining the NBBP lies mainly with the state and territory governments as the program focuses largely on management of established bee pests and diseases to maintain the sustainability and viability of Australia's honey bee industry.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) has recently committed additional funding to enhance the bee biosecurity awareness activities undertaken by PHA through the NBBP, over the next two years, and will continue to consider opportunities in the future for enhancing the program's effectiveness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry coordinate a national response to control and manage feral and invasive species to safeguard Australia's biodiversity and environmental biosecurity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Established pest and weed management is a shared responsibility between landholders, community, industry and governments, noting it is primarily the responsibility of state and territory governments and landholders. The Environment and Invasives Committee, a sectoral committee supporting the National Biosecurity Committee, provides national policy leadership on the identification, prevention and management of invasive species and facilitates collaboration across all levels of government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government, including both the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) and the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water (DCCEEW), supports a range of work and provides funding to assist state and territory governments, natural resource management groups, Traditional Owners and land managers to effectively manage established invasive species in Australia. These include the National Landcare Program, National Environmental Science Program, Established Pest Animals and Weeds Program and other grant programs. Established Pest Animals and Weeds programs have committed nearly $160 million since 2015.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DAFF also supports national efforts to control and manage feral and invasive species through:</para></quote>
<list>the Chief Environmental Biosecurity Officer role;</list>
<list>the development of a new National Established Weed Priorities (NEWP) Framework that aims to revitalise weeds management in Australia. It will allow for new Weeds of National Significance to be declared and introduces Weed Issues of National Significance; and</list>
<list>funding to support coordinated national action on priority pest animals including wild dogs; feral pigs, cats and deer; and foxes (2022-23). This investment includes assistance for:</list>
<list>the upskilling of landowners through training and communication;</list>
<list>strengthening collaboration to increase the effectiveness of control actions across land tenures;</list>
<list>adoption of technologies and best practice; and</list>
<list>collection and sharing of information to measure outcomes.</list>
<quote><para class="block">National action plans for wild dog, feral pigs and feral deer have strong stakeholder involvement and co-investment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Animal Health Australia and Plant Health Australia broaden their consultations to include all stakeholders from across the supply chain, including transport and livestock transport industries and the retail sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) notes Animal Health Australia (AHA) and Plant Health Australia (PHA) are independent national bodies that are jointly funded by the Australian Government, state and territory government and industry members. AHA and PHA have extensive existing consultation mechanisms, and DAFF will work with them to encourage broader enabling dialogue with stakeholders across the supply chain, including through national preparedness and response exercises. DAFF notes that stakeholders from supply chain sectors are currently not members of AHA and PHA and do not contribute to their operating costs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 10</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government work with agencies and industry bodies to ensure appropriate governance and reporting structures are in place to ensure that recommendations arising from simulations and exercises are implemented in a timely way.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Collaboration on the implementation of biosecurity exercise recommendations currently occurs with government response agencies and industry bodies through established fora, such as the National Biosecurity Committee (NBC) and the Biosecurity and Agricultural Emergency Network (BAEN).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is further supported through collective priority of 'Coordinated preparedness and response' identified through the National Biosecurity Strategy. Strategy implementation planning is underway through a group comprising government and non-government biosecurity stakeholders, including to identify actions that will enhance governance and information flows related to preparedness and response.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 11</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government increase funding to Animal Health Australia and Plant Health Australia to enable them to appropriately maintain, review and develop funding and compensation arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Animal Health Australia (AHA) and Plant Health Australia (PHA) are funded by all signatories to the Emergency Animal Disease Response Agreement (EADRA) and Emergency Plant Pest Response Deed (EPPRD). There is a process in place for AHA and PHA to propose these activities as part of their operational plans and seek additional resourcing from all members. The Australian Government contributes one-third of membership fees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 12</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry consults with the honey bee industry to consider the inclusion of pollination services under the Emergency Plant Pest Response Deed Levy guidelines and legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry is streamlining and modernising agricultural levies legislation work is developing legislation that (if passed) would enable a framework under which a levy on bee pollination services could be established. The department expects to consult on the relevant draft legislation. In addition to the legislative framework, the establishment of new levies requires a levy proposal supported by the majority of future levy payers to be submitted by industry to government. The department has encouraged Australian Honey Bee Industry Council (AHBIC) to consider the design of a pollination services levy in advance of the new legislation being in place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 13</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government conduct a review of national livestock traceability funding and co-funding mechanisms, to ensure they are sustainable, comprehensive, and equitable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is supportive of national efforts to improve traceability, biosecurity, animal welfare outcomes and notes current work underway by the National Biosecurity Committee. Industry, governments, agricultural supply chain participants and other stakeholders are working together to strengthen our national traceability systems and improve livestock traceability, noting that State and Territory governments are the primary regulators of biosecurity traceability systems that support biosecurity and animal welfare outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's current livestock traceability systems are world-class and effective, and efforts are ongoing to ensure they remain fit for purpose and able to adapt into the future. There are several livestock and traceability reform processes underway including working towards implementation of electronic identification (elD) for sheep and goats by 1 January 2025. The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry is working with industry and government</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to ensure these processes are staggered, manageable and deliver the desired outcomes within sensible timeframes, which include consideration of governance structures and funding.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government has invested $118.5 million to support the continuous improvement of Australia's agriculture traceability systems. The traceability work program is supporting efforts to enhance traceability systems across agriculture supply chains to safeguard and grow sustainable agriculture, fisheries and forestry for all Australians. This includes:</para></quote>
<list>$68.4 million over four years from 2021-22 to develop a national approach to improve traceability;</list>
<list>$46.7 million over three years from 2022-23, as part of the 'Bolstering Australia's biosecurity system' package towards upgrading the national livestock traceability system and transitioning to nationally harmonised individual electronic identification (elD) for sheep and goats.;</list>
<list>$1.1 million over two years to support efforts to improve national horse traceability; and</list>
<list>$2.3 million ongoing to support the Modernising Agricultural Trade traceability grants program.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 14</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government establish a statutory or regulatory authority responsible for managing Australian livestock traceability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The government acknowledges that governance arrangements for traceability are important. While statutory and regulatory authorities are options to manage this, traceability arrangements must be considered wholistically and all options should be considered.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All Australian Agriculture Ministers continue to acknowledge traceability is a shared responsibility, and have agreed to work together on national approaches and aligning key traceability initiatives to continue to enhance Australia's already robust traceability systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This responsibility also extends to industry including the management of industry owned traceability systems such as the National Livestock Identification System (NUS). The Australian Government has committed $26.6 million to support upgrades to the NUS, and associated activities, to ensure Australia's industry-led national livestock traceability systems remain fit for purpose into the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 15</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, in partnership with state and territory governments and the honey bee industry, conduct a feasibility study for a commercial bee hive traceability system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is supportive of national efforts to improve traceability and biosecurity and notes current work underway by the National Biosecurity Committee, recognising that biosecurity traceability is a jurisdictional responsibility. The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry is aware that work exploring beehive traceability systems is underway in some jurisdictions and this will help inform considerations on the feasibility for future traceability systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 16</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government and Animal Health Australia establish a lumpy skin disease vaccine bank for use by Australia in the event of an incursion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government will continue to work with state and territory governments, affected industry parties and Animal Health Australia to determine whether there is merit in developing a national vaccine bank for Lumpy Skin Disease (LSD), as agreed by governments and industry in Activity 5.2.c <inline font-style="italic">(Investigate options for the timely supply of LSD vaccines) </inline>of the National Lumpy Skin Disease Action Plan. In the interim, the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry is working with international vaccine manufacturers to ensure Australia has the ability to access a safe and effective LSD vaccine in an emergency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 17</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government negotiate with the United Kingdom Government the ability for researchers from the Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness to access and conduct research on Australia's bank of foot-and-mouth virus vaccine in the United Kingdom.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness advises it has longstanding research collaborations with the World Reference Laboratory for FMD in the United Kingdom, as well as other institutions globally, to investigate the efficacy of antigens held in Australia's FMD vaccine bank against new strains emerging overseas. The Australian Centre for Disease Preparedness will advise the Department of Agrilcuture, Fisheries and Forestry if they require any assistance in changing these arrangements in the future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 18</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government coordinate the implementation of a national approach to interstate border control and permitting, and use of a national movement permitting system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government agrees that strong livestock traceability arrangements and 'contact tracing' for livestock are important to Australia's preparedness in the face of the growing threat of exotic animal diseases (including foot and mouth disease).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government has committed $46.7 million over three years from FY 2022-23, as part of the 'Bolstering Australia's biosecurity system' package, towards improving national livestock traceability arrangements. Industry and governments continue to work towards a harmonised approach to implementation in terms of key milestones and timelines, to develop a national system to improve reporting.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Biosecurity Committee will consider the merits of a national permitting system as part of its consideration of the National Biosecurity Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 19</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government coordinate the development of a national network plan and sustainable funding for the establishment of livestock transport infrastructure at rest stops on key livestock freight routes around Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry will work with the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts to consider how best to support preparedness activities through the utilisation of and improvements to_ livestock transport logistics.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 20</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government conduct industry consultation to determine the feasibility of a Road Transport Management Deposit Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry will work with the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications and the Arts to consider the feasibility of a Road Transport Management Deposit Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 21</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian federal, state and territory governments commit to a sustainable biosecurity funding model to reflect the changing risk profile of pests and diseases to Australia's agriculture and environment and overall way of life.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the National Biosecurity Strategy, all governments have committed to work together with stakeholders on the development of long-term sustainable funding and investment approaches to support the system's growing needs and priorities. Work is underway—including through a National Biosecurity Strategy Implementation Committee comprising a cross-section of stakeholders—to consider how best to implement the Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Furthermore, the Australian Government has committed to deliver long-term sustainable funding that will go directly to strengthening Australia's biosecurity system. Noting the Commonwealth is a core contributor to national biosecurity outcomes, options for a sustainable Commonwealth biosecurity funding model are being developed for government consideration. These options are being developed following recent stakeholder consultation in which 55 public submissions were received.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 22</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends the Australian Government, in partnership with animal, plant and environment biosecurity stakeholders, conducts a review of how biosecurity funding is allocated to ensure that it is adequate and equitable</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A strong biosecurity system is critical to protecting Australia's economy, environment and way of life. All Australians share the benefits of our biosecurity system, and we all have a valuable role to play in supporting it to continue to protect Australia—overseas, at our border and within Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As noted in Recommendation 21, options for a sustainable Commonwealth biosecurity funding model are being developed for the government's consideration. This will encompass core Commonwealth biosecurity responsibilities and include investment in critical biosecurity systems.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sustainable system investment more broadly is one of six priority areas outlined in the National Biosecurity Strategy. Advancing co-funding and investment- recognising all stakeholders have a part to play in supporting the system, just as all share in its benefits—is a key early focus for the national committee steering implementation, the membership of which includes industry, community and government biosecurity stakeholders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 23</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry incorporate an audit of existing skills and gaps in the development of the national biosecurity workforce strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.·</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports the proposed audit of the existing skills and gaps as a logical step in the development of the national biosecurity workforce strategy. This will be incorporated into the National Biosecurity Strategy which has identified that that additional skills and infrastructure are required to support a more responsive biosecurity system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 24</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government support and prioritise biosecurity officers' capacity and capability development to improve border responses and reduce delays for passengers and importers, and improve Australia's overall biosecurity readiness.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has invested significantly in the capability of biosecurity staff, including through the investment in the Biosecurity Training Centre and new tailored training packages delivered to staff over the past 18 months. The department, as part of its commitment to a professional and capable regulatory workforce, will continue to prioritise support for biosecurity staff who are making important regulatory decisions at the border.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Training is reviewed and enhanced as needed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 25</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Australian Government work with relevant industry bodies to design and implement measures to improve the capacity and capability of production animal veterinarians, particularly in rural and remote areas, including:</para></quote>
<list>enhancement of veterinarian attraction and retention strategies and initiatives such as graduate and rural practice incentives;</list>
<list>compensation paid to veterinarians in the event of their involvement in an EAD response; and</list>
<list>increased utilisation of rural and remote veterinarians in surveillance and monitoring activities.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes and acknowledges that the initiative to <inline font-style="italic">improve the capacity and capability of production animal veterinarians, particularly in rural and remote areas, </inline>is a broader challenge in the veterinary industry more generally.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF) has recently participated in, and contributed, to the Animal Health Committee taskforce which is reviewing the National framework for the engagement of private vets during an emergency animal disease response. This is an important initiative which provides a useful platform for engagement on these ongoing challenges.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DAFF has also had recent engagement with the Department of Education who are closely monitoring the efficacy of the Higher Education Loan Program (HELP) debt measures for teachers, and proposed measures for doctors and nurses, to determine whether these initiatives should be expanded to other critical professions such as veterinary science.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DAFF has a particular interest in the strength of Australia's veterinary industry given the contribution this makes to biosecurity and agricultural productivity, and will continue to assist and engage with state and territory governments and the Australian Veterinary Association (AVA) to enhance veterinarian attraction and retention strategies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 26</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that government departments, Animal Health Australia and Plant Health Australia consult a wider range of stakeholders from across the supply chain, including the transport and livestock transport sectors and the retail sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry will work with Animal and Plant Health Australia and other, government bodies—such as the departments of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communication and the Arts; and Industry Science and Resources—to coordinate dialogue with stakeholders across the supply chain, including through national preparedness and response exercises.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 27</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the department, in consultation with stakeholders, coordinate the development of a strategy for biosecurity research development and extension which includes:</para></quote>
<list>a long-term funding mechanism for biosecurity research;</list>
<list>approaches to identify research, development and extension gaps and national priorities across the biosecurity continuum;</list>
<list>strategies to develop better integrations between industry and research organisations; and</list>
<list>mechanisms to support the commercialisation of research, development and extension outputs.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports in principle this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As noted in Recommendation 21 -the Australian Government committed to deliver long-. term sustainable funding that will go directly to strengthening Australia's biosecurity system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The development of options for a sustainable long-term funding model for biosecurity is underway. This has included targeted stakeholder consultation to seek feedback on opportunities for government investment including into systems and technologies that both improve risk management and drive efficiency into the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the National Biosecurity Strategy, all governments have agreed to work together with stakeholders to create a more connected and efficient system in which we better leverage existing and new technology, research and data to facilitate more timely, informed and risk-based decisions. The Strategy discusses initial work on increased coordination and engagement across biosecurity stakeholders, including research and development bodies, investment in transformative technologies, and encouraging greater private sector investment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of the Statutory Funding Agreements, Rural Research and Development Corporations (RDCs) are required to consider each of the four innovation priorities when making investment decisions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 28</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry coordinate the development of national data and information standards, and sharing protocols in relation to biosecurity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Biosecurity Committee is developing a national data sharing capability tha_t includes identifying critical data holdings across governments, agricultural industries and commercial data vendors. Assessments will be made on data standards, sharing protocols, policy and legislative constraints, including the role of existing systems to support a national approach for sharing pest and disease data.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 29</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The committee recommends that Plant Health Australia in partnership with the bee industry and other stakeholders of AUSPestCheck, consider the platform's capability and data sharing arrangements for tracking varroa mite should it become endemic.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consideration is being given to assessing the role of biosecurity systems, including AUSPestCheck, to support a national approach for collection and sharing of accurate and reliable data to manage biosecurity pests and diseases and export market requirements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AUSPestCheck is endorsed by National Biosecurity Committee as the national surveillance data system and the department has funded Plant Health Australia to maintain it for the next three years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Additional Recommendations—Australian Greens</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommends the Australian Government provide specific commentary on the feasibility of a container levy and outline whether it intends to consider introducing one in this term of government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government notes this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government has made a commitment to bolster Australia's biosecurity system including a long-term sustainable funding model to strengthen the system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Work is underway to develop options to implement a long-term sustainable biosecurity funding model for the government's consideration. Development has included public and targeted consultation to seek feedback on the current funding model as well as options that have previously been provided to government including various air and sea freight, conveyance, or container levies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Australian Government include discussion of state and territory-based biosecurity issues arising from this inquiry in future Agriculture Minister Meetings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's biosecurity system is a national asset and the shared responsibility of the Commonwealth, states and territories, and industry. Strengthening biosecurity systems to reflect emerging risks is a significant component of the Agriculture Ministers' Meeting (AMM) work program. In July 2022, AMM approved Australia's first National Biosecurity Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Biosecurity is one of AMM's 3 priorities for 2023 and it will oversee the implementation of the strategy through the National Biosecurity Strategy Implementation Committee. The AMM and the Agriculture Senior Officials' Committee are the established mechanisms for considering state and territory-based biosecurity issues of national significance, informed by the work of the National Biosecurity Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In relation to inquiry Recommendation 22, The Australian Greens recommend that the Australian Government include specific reference to improvements in training, including the feasibility of formalising and expanding the Biosecurity Emergency Response Training Australia initiative.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Through the National Biosecurity Committee (NBC), governments have committed to the development of a system-wide strategy that improves workforce capacity and training. A training approach that is consistent with the wider emergency management sector is important to access additional workforce capacity during a largescale biosecurity incident. This forms part of broader strategic considerations about how the biosecurity system can best leverage the emergency management sector training packages to improve interoperability between response agencies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Australian Government provide an update on the progress of implementation of the National Invasive Ants Biosecurity Plan 2018-2028.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Invasive Ant Biosecurity Plan 2018-2028 (NIABP) has been active for four years. Ten of the total 42 actions listed in the NIABP are assigned to the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (DAFF). Five of those 10 have been completed and all 5 were high priority, 4 DAFF actions have been started and 1 is to be commenced. The NIABP is scheduled for a mid-term review in 2023 when remaining actions will be re-prioritised and assigned to DAFF, state and territory authorities, NGOs, and researcher stakeholders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Australian Government publish an update on the implementation of recommendations from the 2017 review of the Intergovernmental Agreement on Biosecurity (IGAB review) and the reports of the Inspector-General of Biosecurity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government supports this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In late September 2022, the National Biosecurity Committee (NBC) committed to undertake a stock-take of the IGAB review report recommendations to determine their current status and to align implementation activities with work underway to implement the National Biosecurity Strategy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Updates on the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry's progress addressing and implementing recommendations made by both the Inspector-General of Biosecurity and the Australian National Audit Office are published within the Commonwealth Biosecurity 2030 annual action plans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Australian Government establishes a Productivity Commission inquiry into the economic and environmental benefits of long- term control of feral animals.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government does not support this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">State and territory governments hold the legislative responsibility for the management of feral animals in Australia. The Australian Government provides support, including funding, for management where this is in the national interest or on Commonwealth land.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government uses a variety of funding models to assist state and territory governments, natural resource management groups, Traditional Owners and land managers to effectively control feral animals in Australia, reducing impacts to provide economic and environmental benefits. These include the National Landcare Program, National Environmental Science Program, Supporting Communities Manage Pest Animals and Weeds Program and other grant programs. These programs have reporting and review mechanisms.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics and Sciences (ABARES) we continue to work to improve understanding of the distribution, abundance, as well as impacts (including economics) of established pest animals on primary production and the environment.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the government response to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee's report.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aviation Industry</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>64</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I table documents relating to the order for the production of documents concerning Qatar Airways.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>65</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Strengthening Employer Compliance) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7058" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Strengthening Employer Compliance) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>65</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>65</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">There is a crisis of exploitation in Australian workplaces. Too many workers are forced to confront vulnerability created by our visa system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means more wage theft for workers. Australians and people ,who hold temporary visas alike.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">People too terrified to speak out when they are mistreated. We all know this happens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is clear evidence of the systemic nature of exploitation in Australia's labour market. Unscrupulous employers and facilitators have misused visa rules to exploit workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to a recent report by the Grattan Institute, up to one in six recent migrants are paid below the minimum wage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Another report from Unions NSW released today found over one in five workers are paid a lower salary because of their visa status or nationality.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So, it's not just a bad apple or two. The Government is particularly concerned about the vulnerability of people who hold a temporary visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Empty promises of permanent residency, wage theft, sham contracting, threats of a phone call to the Australian Border Force, stories where people have had their passports locked away, been sexually harassed and sexually assaulted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The list of behaviours is almost endless.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most exploitation happens in entry level jobs with lower wages. Yet we know those who are paid more can also be vulnerable because of their visa conditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those who have done the wrong thing are diverse, from local bubble tea outlets in suburban shopping centres to global ICT multinationals headquartered in Sydney.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Regardless if you are working retail or developing software, regardless if you are born in Australia or have chosen Australia, the Albanese Government believes no worker should be penalised for speaking up.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And the exploitation of those who hold a temporary visa doesn't just hurt the individual worker, it drives down wages and worsens conditions for all workers. It impacts all of us.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Exploitation also harms those employers who do the right thing. I know there are so many employers out there who seek to do the right thing. But they face unfair competition because too many choose to under pay a worker.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have to stop this race to the bottom.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill enhances the ability of Australia's visa system and enforcement regime to combat worker exploitation with a particular emphasis on targeting employers and third party facilitators who misuse our migration program and the rules designed to support it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill aims to strengthen employer compliance and ensure that law-abiding Australian employers are not undercut by unscrupulous competitors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will implement recommendations 19 and 20 of the Report of the Migrant Workers' Taskforce, and includes several additional measures.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, it will help remove barriers that stop exploited temporary migrant workers from speaking out and seeking support.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is an election commitment of the Albanese Government. And we are keeping our word.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Migrant Workers' Taskforce should have been actioned earlier, as it was delivered by Professor Allen Fels to the then Government in 2019.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New criminal offences</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In its Report, the Migrant Workers' Taskforce recommended making it an offence for a person to knowingly pressure, influence or coerce a worker to breach a visa condition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will implement this recommendation. It will be a criminal offence to coerce someone into breaching their work-related visa conditions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Employers who deliberately coerce vulnerable workers must face the consequence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are also going further.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will be a criminal offence to use a worker's visa status or a future work-related visa requirement to coerce or unduly pressure a person into accepting an exploitative work arrangement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also includes an additional criminal offence and associated civil penalty provision for a person who unduly influences, unduly pressures or coerces an unlawful non-citizen to accept an arrangement in relation to work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This new offence makes it clear that it is never acceptable to use a person's immigration status to exploit them in the workplace, whether they are lawful non- citizens or unlawful non-citizens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This new offence builds on existing provisions in the Migration Act, which already make it an offence to employ an unlawful non-citizen. It does so by appropriately penalising unscrupulous employers for taking advantage of vulnerabilities associated with the 'migration rules'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Prohibition measure</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Taskforce Report recommended exploring mechanisms to exclude employers from employing further workers who hold a temporary visa for a specified period of time where they have been convicted by a court for underpaying migrants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are doing that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new prohibition measure will be introduced to prevent employers and other third parties from hiring any temporary visa holders where they have exploited workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the moment, the only bar under the Migration Act on hiring is for sponsored workers, such as those who· hold a Temporary Skill Shortage visa. The new measure will prevent prohibited employers from hiring non-sponsored workers who hold any form of temporary visa, such as international students_.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This prohibition will be in place for a specified period of time and a list of prohibited employers will be published on the Home Affairs website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This prohibition is necessary to protect workers from employers who have engaged in serious, deliberate or repeated non-compliance with their obligations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Prohibition notices will be triggered by breaches under both the Migration Act and the Fair Work Act, as well as certain offences under the Criminal Code.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government wants to ensure employment law and migratlon law work towards the same goal, that they are not pulling in opposite directions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Triggers include remuneration related non-compliance, but they also extend to other forms of exploitation, recognising the corrosive behaviour of some unscrupulous employers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And _it will be a criminal offence where prohibited employers have been found to have employed an additional worker on a temporary visa whilst prohibited.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The decision to prohibit will be a decision for the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs or Minister for Home Affairs and it can be delegated to a relevant decision maker. I will be consulting and collaborating with my colleagues on how the Fair Work Ombudsman can play a role in this process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill provides that before the Minister, or delegate, declares a person to be a prohibited employer, the Minister must give the person a written notice:</para></quote>
<list>stating that the Minister proposes to make such a declaration, and giving the reasons for it, and</list>
<list>inviting the person to make a written submission to the Minister, setting out reasons why the Minister should not make the declaration.</list>
<quote><para class="block">This gives the employer an opportunity to respond to the notice and outline any extenuating circumstances to be considered as part of that decision making process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Given the seriousness of these penalties, this Bill also provides that the Minister must consider any written submission made by the person.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Also, that the Minister must also consider any criteria prescribed in the Migration Regulations, for example:</para></quote>
<list>past and present conduct of the employer in their engagement with relevant government agencies</list>
<list>the employer's history of non-compliance and whether the non-compliance is recurring</list>
<list>the nature and seriousness of the contravention(s) that gave rise to the proposed prohibition</list>
<list>the impact on the migrant worker or migrant workers</list>
<list>any extenuating circumstances outlined by the employer, including the impact the prohibition would have on the ongoing viability of the business and how that might impact existing workers and the broader community.</list>
<quote><para class="block">This is a really significant measure. In industries where exploitation is particularly widespread—such as accommodation, food services, cleaning, and construction—this is a necessary step to show we can tackle exploitation where it is most prevalent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It demonstrates that the Albanese Government is committed to protecting workers from employers who have broken the trust of our community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Increasing pecuniary penalties and civil penalties</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also increases the penalties for unscrupulous employers misusing our migration programs and misusing migration rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For penalties to have a deterrent effect, they must be set at a level that actually deters people from offending.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will see penalties under the Migration Act significantly increased to better deter these unscrupulous employers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Increasing penalties reflects the significant damage that the actions of unscrupulous employers can have on Australia's visa program integrity, and public confidence in our migration system more broadly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need to make sure employers think twice before deciding to ignore their obligations under the Migration Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration Act enforceable undertakings and compliance notices</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the same time, we understand that some employers can make mistakes. That is why we are enhancing the compliance and enforcement framework in relation to work-related offences under the Migration Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will give the Australian Border Force tools to work with employers to better support them to do the right thing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Enforceable undertakings and compliance notices will address non-compliance by encouraging voluntary compliance, as an alternative to pursuing punitive court proceedings, where it is appropriate to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These Migration Act tools provide for an escalating range of measures to be used when employers fail to comply with the law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">R epeal of section 235</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For people who have been exploited, the Migration Act has criminalised speaking out.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Section 235 of the Migration Act creates a criminal offence for a visa holder to work in breach of a work-related visa conoition or for an unlawful non-citizen to work at all.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, this criminal offence has not been prosecuted since it was introduced over two decades ago.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A major issue raised by stakeholders is that Section 235 of the Migration Act has undermined the ability of workers on temporary visas to have recourse to their rights under certain workplace laws such as workers' compensation laws.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A key element of this Bill is to repeal this offence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We understand that workers are afraid to speak out because if they do so, they would be liable for prosecution for this offence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We recognise that section 235 acts as a barrier for them to report exploitation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Beyond this, section 235 has seen other unintended consequences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite not being prosecuted since introduction, the mere presence of section 235 has resulted in adverse effects for non-citizens, even when they have not been prosecuted for this offence, such as in cases of workers' compensation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The national workplace relations system and other workplace laws should apply to workers in Australia, regardless of their immigration status. This is critical for the protection of all workers in our community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are repealing this section to assist in closing this loophole that gives unscrupulous employers leverage over vulnerable non-citizens.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also introduces an avoidance of doubt clause for the remaining work-related offence provisions to further assist in closing this loophole.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The aim of the avoidance of doubt provision is to resolve potential unintended consequences associated with breaches of work-related visa conditions that may lead to the interpretation that a 'contract of or 'contract for' service is void—inadvertently contributing to the abrogation of employer responsibility to provide workplace rights and entitlements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Other amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The final substantive measure included iri this Bill is the introduction a power to permit the Migration Regulations to prescribe matters to be taken into account in a decision whether or not to cancel a visa under section 116 of the Migration Act, as well as the weight to be given to those matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some will be aware of the Assurance Protocol, introduced in 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Assurance Protocol is a commitment between the Department of Home Affairs and Fair Work Ombudsman that a worker who holds a temporary visa will not have their visa cancelled for breaching a work-related visa condition if certain criteria are met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the intent of the Protocol is positive, it. has clearly failed to provide the assurance necessary to encourage people to speak up.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since 2017, there have been only 79 referrals under this initiative. Clearly it has not inspired the necessary trust among exploited workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stakeholders have told me that the reason they don't trust this initiative is because it is not transparent and because it is not legislated.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is too secretive to instil the necessary trust and confidence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The final measure included in the Bill will allow the Albanese Government to make regulations to legislate the protections that are currently only available under policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have instructed my Department to work with industry, union and civil society organisations to consider the protections available to workers who hold temporary visas to encourage them to speak out when they face exploitation in the workplace.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Just this week they have come together to work through the existing settings and consider whether other protections are needed. I thank those in business, civil society, unions, researchers, legal practitioners and other experts who have participated in these important conversations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I intend to consid.er their advice—in consultation with my colleagues—and together we will ensure the protections achieve an appropriate balance, encouraging workers to come forward and report exploitation while also maintaining the integrity of our visa programs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in this Bill will help give people confidence to speak out and seek help without fear of visa cancellation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Role of ABF</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill creates new powers, new penalties, and a new approach to tackling the exploitation of workers who hold a temporary visa in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Alongside the measures in the Bill, the Albanese Government recently increased funding for immigration compliance in the 2023-24 Budget.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This recognises the important role of the ABF in compliance and enforcement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For too long, the consequences for doing the wrong thing have been a slap on the wrist. The chance of getting caught, far too small.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So I want to make it clear. The ABF will be out there enforcing the law when it comes to those employers who choose to the do the wrong thing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those who seek profit at the expense of paying workers a fair and legal wage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those who do the wrong thing will be found. And they will be· penalised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Closing remarks</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So many workers who hold a temporary visa make a significant commitment when they leave their home to come to Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This commitment involves a leap of faith which is characterised by both opportunities and inherent risks associated with moving to a new environment, away from the normal supports of family and pre-existing relationships in the workplace and beyond.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This commitment requires them to adapt to new working environments, new laws and for some, a new language. Australia has for decades benefited from migrants that have demonstrated resilience, hard work, and who have made substantial contributions to our country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We all witnessed this first hand during the pandemic. People who held visas stacking shelves, delivering essential care, staffing hospitals, and delivering food.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I believe there is a greater appreciation today in this country for people who hold temporary visas than there has been in the past.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is unconscionable that some employers target these very workers as cheap and exploitable labour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is unacceptable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So many of these workers contribute to important jobs across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill recognises to that when people vulnerable to exploitation are mistreated, we all suffer. It recognises the contribution being made by so many workers and the importance of addressing the corrosive nature of exploitation in workplaces across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Additionally, the Bill acknowledges that Australia can't take for granted being a destination of choice for prospective migrants. We are in a global competition for talent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it is critically important for the Government to demonstrate its strong commitment to addressing worker exploitation, because this is the right thing to do, and because it is squarely in our national interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill reflects the Government's strong principle that approaches to employment and migration will work side by side to address exploitation. The Fair Work Act and the Migration Act will work together to protect workers, regardless of their visa status.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We cannot build our nation on the back of those being exploited.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Strengthening employer compliance with the requirements of the Migration Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will do what it says it does.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Greenhouse and Energy Minimum Standards Amendment (Administrative Changes) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1380" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Greenhouse and Energy Minimum Standards Amendment (Administrative Changes) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>69</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>69</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>69</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I thank the government and that opposition—that's, Senators Chisholm and Ruston—for this opportunity to complete my speech. I'll be jumping more quickly in future. I remind fellow senators that last Wednesday I showed the UN's 2050 net zero pipedream has become a nightmare—an environmental nightmare, a humanitarian nightmare, an economic nightmare and a social nightmare. For this reason I support the proposed inquiry into the impacts of wind, solar and transmission lines.</para>
<para>The UN's net zero 2050 target is the enemy of the environment, yet this parliament keeps refusing to look at the facts. It keeps ignoring and refusing to listen to the people. It keeps refusing to look at the reality of what is happening across eastern Australia, North Queensland, Central Queensland, southern Queensland, New South Wales and Victoria. Huge swathes of Australian landscapes are being cleared for millions of solar panels, wind turbines and transmission lines. Lines are being cut through the bush and through rainforests and across family backyards and prime agricultural land.</para>
<para>Tens of thousands of kilometres are needed for the UN's net zero pipedream demands in Australia, and for what? Unreliable, expensive solar and wind power that won't keep the country going. And for what? The New South Wales government is now working to extend the Eraring power station's life to safeguard electricity supplies. The New South Wales government accepts an independent report's recommendations to keep coal-fired power. I quote again the article, as a reminder. The article says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… such a closure—</para></quote>
<para>referring to the Eraring power station—</para>
<quote><para class="block">at that time would expose the state to possible blackouts and further price increases.</para></quote>
<para>As if people aren't suffering enough—further price increases. It also says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">NSW premier Chris Minns said affordability and guaranteeing electricity supply was paramount.</para></quote>
<para>That's why they want to keep open the coal-fired power station at Eraring. Affordability and guaranteeing electricity supply are paramount. Mr Minns is quoted in the article as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One of the biggest challenges facing NSW is ensuring we can keep the lights on while managing the biggest change in energy mix and consumption in the shortest period of time in our nation's history.</para></quote>
<para>It's hasty, ill-conceived and not thought through. That's what's coming home. The chickens are coming home to roost around the country.</para>
<para>In closing, when visiting Chalumbin on the Atherton Tableland I saw for myself the wind turbines graveyard. These metal monsters are short lived and too expensive to recycle, so they're just dumped in the bush after just two years in operation. I now acknowledge and thank Ravenshoe's Friends of Chalumbin for being warm, informed and knowledgeable hosts and guides. I'll name some of them: Sharon; Laurie; Tom, a traditional owner; Peter; Rob; Penny; and others too many to list, including all the locals who came along for the forum we held in Ravenshoe. I assure all the friends of Chalumbin, of the Wide Bay-South Burnett region and of Central Queensland that One Nation will continue to work to stop these monstrous invaders of the human and natural environments. We must stop this nonsense of killing the natural environment in the name of supposedly saving it. We must stop this nonsense of killing the human environment. Humans are entitled to live in harmony and health. We all in this parliament must stop making policy and legislation contrary to empirical scientific data and return to governance based on solid empirical scientific data.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be put.</para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:30]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senators Colbeck and Cadell be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [17:34] <br />(The President—Senator Lines) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>25</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023, Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6970" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6971" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6972" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>71</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll continue from where I left off earlier to say that this bill is nothing more than a gambling bill whereby $10 billion will be borrowed and the taxpayer will incur the risk. The Labor Party hope to invest that money and generate a higher return on the money they invest, rather than the rate of interest they borrowed against. Let's just assume that everything goes perfectly well, that the Labor government can borrow money at four per cent and can earn a rate of return of six per cent on this $10 billion, so they have a two per cent margin. Two per cent of $10 billion is $200 million. If you assume that every house built costs $250,000, that's about 800 houses for $200 million. Labor claim that they're going to house 6,000 people as a result of this bill.</para>
<para>I think the only people that are really going to be making money out of this are the fund managers who get to clip the ticket on the $10 billion that they get to gamble. Of course, these are the same fund managers that get to gamble with the trillions of dollars taken from the pockets of the workers, and of course they clip the ticket on that. We know that they generate $30 billion a year. According to the Productivity Commission, the cost of superannuation is $30 billion a year. So this will also run into millions, if not tens of millions, of dollars in fees for the people—I think it's the Future Fund—who are going to manage it. So as usual, just as with the Voice and native title, there will be fund managers and lawyers and everything clipping the ticket on this and making a great deal of money at the expense of the taxpayer.</para>
<para>Anyway, let's just put aside the entire risk proposition here for a minute and just assume that, yes, they do manage to generate a small rate of return and manage to build houses for 6,000 people. Where are they going to find the builders to actually build these 6,000 houses? If you didn't know already, we have a labour shortage in this country. We already have a labour crisis. Thanks to the genius of the RBA when they raised interest rates, they haven't just crushed demand; they've also crushed supply. There isn't a day that goes by when we don't read about another building company that's gone under, because building companies effectively can't issue fixed-price contracts because the cost of everything is going up rapidly. Because they can't issue fixed-price contracts to the first home buyers or whoever it is that wants to get a house built, the bank won't lend to them, because they always need a fixed-price contract. So the geniuses at the RBA are not only destroying demand but destroying supply. I've long called for a productive quantitative easing program in this country, just as Lachlan Macquarie did over 200 years ago. He built the Sydney hospital and the Sydney barracks. That is the way to productivity: to build things.</para>
<para>Getting back to this problem, this problem has been caused by Labor's reckless immigration program, which has seen 400,000 people come in this year. It's going to decrease to 315,000 next year, but it will total about 1.5 million over the next five years. To think that building 6,000 houses is somehow going to accommodate 400,000 people is just dreaming. What are they planning on doing? Buying a bunch of dongas and putting people in dongas? I honestly have no idea how they expect this fund to be able to fund enough social housing for the number of new migrants coming into this country, as well as, of course, the natural rate of birth, the natural increase, which off the top of my head I think is 100,000 to 150,000 a year.</para>
<para>We've already got problems in this country. I hear from people who have jobs but can't find a place to rent. This isn't a case of people being homeless because they don't have the money to pay rent. That issue does exist, and that's a problem as well. But we have people who have incomes and are sleeping in tents. So all Labor is doing here is putting a bandaid on a much bigger problem, and it's a deflection from the much bigger problem, which is their reckless immigration policy that Australia cannot accommodate at the moment, because we just don't have an economy that is geared towards building. What we have is an economy geared towards consuming.</para>
<para>This is accentuated because 49 per cent of migrants are foreign students. The problem I have with this is that the people who pocket the foreign student fees, the universities, don't have to pay any income tax. If that's not a rort then I don't know what is. You have to ask yourself why it is that the Labor Party, rather than bringing in this policy, don't bring in—I've been very vocal about this before, and I know many of the Labor people follow my Facebook page, where I've done many posts on this—a policy of charging the universities an infrastructure levy. It's not just housing that immigration puts stress on; it's also all the associated infrastructure services that come with it.</para>
<para>I'll compare and contrast the Labor Party of today, which is really more like a Marxist or communist party, with the old traditional blue-collar party of Ben Chifley, which, after World War II, had the Snowy Hydro scheme. He got the immigrants. There were many immigrants from Europe—from Yugoslavia and places like that—who came in. If they didn't go down to the Snowy Mountains, they went up to North Queensland, and they built things. They went and they worked and they built things. The true path to productivity and prosperity in this country is true work. It is as the words of our national anthem say: it is 'wealth for toil'. It is not 'wealth for high immigration'. It is not 'wealth for changing the price of money on the first Tuesday of every month'. It is not 'wealth for gambling a $10 billion housing fund by a bunch of bureaucrats and fund managers who are already skimming $30 billion off superannuation every year'. No, no, no, no. True productivity comes from being on the tools, not pushing pens and shuffling papers.</para>
<para>This is just more of a movement by the Labor Party away from being on the tools. We well remember John Button's plan in 1985. They had this great idea that they'd rationalise manufacturing, and how did that turn out for us? They rationalised manufacturing, all right. They sent it all offshore. Of course, that was a great ploy by the Labor Party, because Victoria, which was once the jewel in the Liberal Party crown because it was the manufacturing state of Australia, is now the jewel in the Labor Party crown. It has now become the Marxist capital of Australia, with a rabid university sector and a rabid superannuation sector.</para>
<para>This is the real shame about this. If we are going to get people into housing and build the associated infrastructure, we have to get our young people to not go to university but to TAFE. We have to get them back on the tools. This levy on universities should actually go to a housing fund for infrastructure, but it should also fund students to go to TAFE. As a matter of fact, I think it's worthy that now, if anyone joins the Army, if they want to become an officer, they go to Duntroon. Why not this: if you join the Army, you go and do an apprenticeship. We could have an actual civil engineering corps within the Army that goes about building federal highways, baseload energy power stations and dams. That is what we have to do in this country.</para>
<para>This idea that you can change the price of money on the first Tuesday of every month is qualitative easing insanity and has got to stop. The idea that you're going to crack down on demand, punish the hardworking Australians through higher interest rates on their mortgages and basically impose austerity is insane. We should be improving productivity. The way we do that is through quantitative easing against the seven sovereign assets that I've talked about in the past—dams, power stations, road, rail, ports, airports and telecommunications. As accountants—and I know there aren't many of you in here, but it's very simple—you debit asset and credit equity, if anyone knows how to read a balance sheet. Equity is title; debt is mortgage.</para>
<para>We need to stop this insanity, and I'm sick and tired of hearing politicians in this place talk about how we've always relied on foreign debt. That is a complete and utter insult to the working people in this country who get out of bed every day and put their noses to the grindstone. Foreign debt is sending us broke. Why on earth do we swap our hard assets and our children's hard assets in the form of dams and power stations for foreign paper? Why do we do that? It is that simple. It is a sleight of hand where you switch a title to a mortgage. That is how our sovereignty defines us—by controlling our currency.</para>
<para>That was another thing in 1985, when Paul Keating decided to open the world to the capital markets: 'We'll let the foreign debt flood in.' In 1985, the four major banks had $8 billion in foreign capital. By 2008, they had $800 billion in foreign debt. And what was that money lent against? It was lent against housing. It sent the price of housing from four to five times earnings to 12 to 13 times earnings. On top of that, in 1990 John Dawkins, a former federal education minister, came up with this great idea that every child should go to university. What did that do? That just pushed back the age our children started working from 17 or 18 to 21 or 22. It meant that, before they even started work, they were broke and brainwashed. They were broke because of this punitive HECS debt that is rising every year, and they were brainwashed by the garbage that universities teach today. Then, to top it all off, Paul Keating introduced superannuation. It's bad enough that our students have to pay HECS off when they get out and start work, and it's bad enough that they're in careers that produce nothing—push a pen and shuffle paper, 'Hey, let's get a job with the future fund and gamble $10 billion on the housing fund!'—but they then have to pay superannuation on top of the HECS and on top of income tax. Why would you bother? Why are we loading our children with all of this paper debt and leaving them with very useless skills, like pushing a pen, shuffling paper and all that sort of stuff? We have to get back on the tools if we want to solve this problem.</para>
<para>So I say to the Labor Party: don't move this bill—this bill is silly and you have to change your mind. This is not the way forward. I will say the same thing tomorrow morning if Senator Bragg's crypto bill comes up: this gambling of paper assets in order to think that you're generating something is completely absurd. What we need to do is to sort out our productivity. It's an overused phrase: we have a productivity crisis in this country. I will nail down what it is: we push our students into university and that delays their working lives by four years. Those can be some of the most productive years of their working careers because they're young, fit and strong. That's when we need them out on the tools, because their bodies can handle it, right?</para>
<para>We have these other massive industries that we're pushing people into, like the financial engineering industry. We've got more academics than we need because we're teaching more students than we need. We've got more people teaching in child care—why not get grandma and grandad looking after the child? That way, we can extend their working lives and they can enjoy the sunset on their working lives with their grandchildren. Then we can get some of the 200,000 people working in child care and shift that back into the family with grandma and grandad. We need to encourage that sort of productive capacity back into doing productive things.</para>
<para>We have to get back our manufacturing sector and, if we're very smart with our quantitative easing, we can build more dams, power stations, roads, rail and transport. If we can lower the cost of energy and actually improve logistics, and lower the cost of business, we will be able to encourage manufacturing back onshore. And we should actually bring back stamp duty on share trading. Forty to 50 per cent of the stock market is traded by scalpers, or high-frequency traders. The money that we could raise from stamp duty should go into abolishing payroll tax. That is another way to improve our productivity and it's another way to make it more competitive for our businesses. We can bring our businesses back onshore. Another policy that needs to happen—and I've encouraged all treasurers to do this while I've been down here—is to lift the rate of withholding tax on profits that go offshore.</para>
<para>I say that this future fund is just another part of the problem we have in this country. Somehow, we think that gambling on and shuffling paper is actually going to create more—it will not. I say: lower the immigration rate, get our own population working again—in real industries—so that we can build our way to prosperity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A tourist in Ireland asks a local how to get to Dublin. The Irishman replies, 'Sir, first of all, I wouldn't start from here.' It's an old joke, but it's a bit like these bills. That's because if you want to do something about fixing Australia's housing supply problems you wouldn't start with a set of bills like this. The Housing Australia Future Fund is a good idea done too small. It's like doing the best paint job on a car but only doing it on the passenger-side door. What you've done is great, but you haven't done enough of it.</para>
<para>To explain why, let's cast our minds back to how these bills looked when they first saw the light of day. We had a set of bills that gave $10 billion to the future fund to invest however it liked, and the money it made from the investment was to go to Housing Australia. Housing Australia would use that money to subsidise affordable housing to the tune of 30,000 homes over five years. That's what the bills did—at first. And who could say no to a change like that? It sounds great. Nobody in their right mind is going to oppose construction of new homes at a time when the only way out of a housing supply shortage is to build new homes. And if that counts as a personal reflection on the opposition, I will withdraw it in advance.</para>
<para>Housing is unaffordable because it's a product of the market, and markets work with supply and demand. You can't easily restrict demand for homes—I'm not sure how many people who are living in tents or their cars are doing it because they want to, but I suspect it's close to zero. Some members in this place have said that the best way to reduce demand is to cut our migration intake. While I don't want to focus on this proposal for too long, we're facing labour shortages in critical industries right across the country. You would be engineering the collapse of aged care, child care, primary care and agriculture by restricting workers from coming in to fill skill gaps. It would definitely reduce demand for housing because you'd have fewer people here, but I think starting a fire to fix a fire is a pretty novel approach to firefighting.</para>
<para>There are some tax things you could do to reduce demand for housing. You can tweak the treatment of investments or support for first home buyers or offer incentives for downsizing, but they are small change and going to result in either swapping renters for buyers and vice versa or swapping investors for first-home buyers. Those kinds of swaps might make sense and be worth looking at, but tax reforms like this are not going to reduce how many people want homes or change how they want them. You're not reducing the demand.</para>
<para>If you can't make housing more affordable through demand measures, you have to look at how you can boost supply, and here, thankfully, the options are pretty straightforward. If you want more of something, make more of something. If you want more homes, build more homes. These bills do just that. They provide a pathway to building more homes. The government deserves credit for having a crack at the housing crisis. What's disappointing about their approach is how they've seen a problem and come up with a solution that in no way meets its scale. It's like they have stumbled across a house fire and they're rushing to the kennel to make sure the family dog is safe. Will it make a difference? A little bit, yes—I'm sure Fido is happy with it—but it doesn't make a difference to the bigger picture. Fido isn't the only one who needs help. The problem is the fire and, when it comes to housing, make no mistake: we have a fire on our hands.</para>
<para>We have a shortfall of 600,000 affordable homes right now. It's growing every year. We need way more than 30,000 homes. What puts that into perspective is what the original Housing Australia Future Fund would have meant for Tasmania. When these bills were first introduced, there was a commitment to build 30,000 homes, but there was no commitment about where they were going to be built. There were no guarantees that the homes would be built anywhere. Based on population, Tasmania might have been looking at 600 or so homes over five years when we have a social housing waitlist of nearly 4½ thousand—a list full of people who can't afford to wait five years. So 600 homes wasn't going to cut it. That was my starting position on these bills. They weren't good enough for Tasmanians.</para>
<para>A few weeks after the bills were introduced, the latest census figures came out and showed that Tasmania's rate of homelessness was growing faster than any other state's or territory's by a mile. Tasmania's homelessness is growing by more than 10 times the national average, and we are on track to have an extra 1,100 people without a home in the next five years. If I'd passed the bills unamended, our rate of homelessness would be growing faster than the supply of homes. We're not gaining ground by doing that; we're just losing ground more slowly. If you want to outrun a bullet, you have to move faster than it's moving, so that's what I said we've got to do.</para>
<para>I said that I would support the bills if there was a concrete, guaranteed commitment that it would finance the construction of 1,200 homes in Tasmania over the next five years. That is 1,200 homes in the time we will have an extra 1,100 people needing on, and that was hard to pull off. That is what it takes to outrun a bullet. I was told by the government that it was impossible to guarantee Tasmania 1,200 homes. They said it couldn't be done. But I can be pretty stubborn, so I showed them how. Then I was told by the government that it shouldn't be done, and I showed them—very politely—why I disagreed. And then they agreed, and I thought, 'Finally, we can start to get moving.'</para>
<para>Things were looking brighter for those 4½ thousand Tasmanians on the social housing waitlist. Things were looking brighter for the Tasmanians who didn't qualify to be on that list but are still struggling with securing a place to call home. After my deal with the government for a guaranteed 1,200 homes for Tasmania, I happily thought that Tasmanians could breathe a bit easier—and then the Greens decided these figures needed a bit more sand.</para>
<para>They refused to support the bills on the grounds that it didn't go far enough—not enough money. That little dance lasted a while. Then they started complaining that it was financed through an investment into the Future Fund, which manages the money by investing it in things like shares. Someone pointed out that they were arguing both that the money shouldn't be invested and also that not enough money was being invested, so they started talking about how it didn't do enough of renters. You've got to give the Greens some credit: they're like bloodhounds when it comes to finding a reason to say the Labor Party isn't going far enough.</para>
<para>They stayed with this rental criticism for a while. They said they wanted rent freezes, and that sounds like a good idea if you're a renter. But if you're renting out your house and all of a sudden the value of renting out your house goes down, what do you think is going to happen? Airbnb is what's going to happen. Tasmania is full of Airbnbs. Practically every rental property gets converted into an Airbnb. And why wouldn't they be? Tourists are paying $500 to stay for a weekend. A family of four might have been paying that some amount per week to live in that property as a rental. A rent freeze would mean that the family's rent stays at $500, plus a few extra dollars if the government gives you permission. But your Airbnb prices aren't frozen. You can charge whatever you want.</para>
<para>Rent freezes will make Airbnbs more attractive. So, you'll end up getting more Airbnbs. I don't want Tasmania to end up like some towns in regional Australia that are full of Airbnbs for holidaymakers but the people who work in the shops, the cafes and the schools cannot afford to live there, because there's nowhere left to rent. Where's that family of four going to live if every potential rental property is instead converted into an Airbnb?</para>
<para>The Greens focused on rent during their negotiations with the government on the bills because the cost of renting is way too high. They are right to want to do something about it. But the big tragedy was that the thing they wanted to do wouldn't help—and the thing that would help, they didn't want to do. Housing is a market—supply and demand. Rent prices can't go down until supply goes up. Supply goes up when buildings go up. Blocking 30,000 homes from going up is not helping supply. The Greens were blocking affordable housing to make housing more affordable, and they voted with the opposition—who are really taking on that title like it's a second skin, time and time again. Every player in the sector came out and asked the Greens to support these bills. Every state and territory government asked the Greens to support these bills. And the Greens said no, because it didn't do enough for renters. Renters were the line in the sand—and I say 'were' because it looks like the tide has come in, and that line in the sand has gone.</para>
<para>The reason I'm giving this speech today specifically is because the Greens are supporting the bill without a rent freeze or a cap. And the future fund is still going to manage the investment. It's still gambling on the stock market—which is probably the most radical way you could describe buying shares in Coles and Qantas. What used to be a line in the sand is now just the sand. And while I say all this, I don't mean it to be nasty to the Greens, because I sincerely think they had good intentions, and I sincerely think they should be congratulated for a lot of what they did. They did manage to get an extra billion dollars in investment in affordable housing, which is terrific news. I think they did a great job. I think they were right to criticise the scale and ambitions of the bills. I think they were right to push the government to go harder, and I'm really happy they have decided to end this stalemate and support this legislation.</para>
<para>It's just frustrating that we've had 700 homes ready to go, to start building in Tassie right away, and they've had to wait an extra six months to get the ball rolling. But I don't want to be complaining about these bills passing later than I would have liked, because the bills will pass—better than before, and that's something to celebrate. These bills are better because they were fixed by the crossbench. The Greens have played an important part in that. And the commitment to 1,200 homes puts a floor under how many homes Tasmania will see built. It's almost doubled what we would have received without this guarantee. The mainland might not appreciate the difference for Tasmania between 600 homes and 1,200 homes, but let me put it like this. Those extra homes—just the extra homes—are enough to put a roof over the head of every Tasmanian who is sleeping rough tonight. That's what kind of difference this could make. These bills are a result of hard work that began years ago, before Labor even took up the idea.</para>
<para>I'm grateful to the boffins at the Grattan Institute who came up with this idea. I'm grateful to Labor for endorsing it as part of their election campaign. I'm grateful to the Greens for finally backing it. It's not where I would have started. But, for where we've ended up, I'm over the moon. This will mean so much for those who need it. I won't delay it a minute longer.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Every Australian deserves to have a safe place to call home. Every Australian deserves to have a roof over their head. Every Australian deserves a government that will look out for them. And these bills provide exactly that. These bills will make a real difference for those on social housing waiting lists across the country. They'll make a real difference for frontline workers who struggle to afford to live near their workplace and for those who need a helping hand to get back on their feet.</para>
<para>The Housing Australia Future Fund is a demonstration of the commitment this government has to tackling real issues and taking action. It is ambitious and it will be life changing. It is the type of policy that those opposite were too afraid to pursue. Over the past decade, we saw neglect from the coalition. They threw social and affordable housing into the too-hard basket. They left it to community housing providers and other levels of government to do the heavy lifting without the funding to get it done. Their decisions left people without a home. Their decisions left people to sleep on the street. Their decisions made the situation so much worse. Now, when they're presented with a solution, they still oppose funding for social and affordable housing. They are opposing these bills, and they are seeking to deny people homes in doing so. The coalition left people out in the cold, and Labor is building them homes.</para>
<para>Over the next five years, we will fund 30,000 new social and affordable homes. This is in addition to existing funding arrangements and new initiatives like the Housing Accord. These bills represent our commitment to taking action and showing leadership—leadership that is needed and has been welcomed right across the housing sector. This is the centrepiece of our commitment to provide more social and affordable homes. It looks beyond short-term solutions and the funding whims of political and budget cycles. Instead, it will lock in a secure and long-term stream of funding for social and affordable homes. It is exactly what our community housing providers, investors and construction companies have been crying out for. This is about increasing the stock in the housing market, making homes affordable, and ensuring, critically, that there is a secure stream of funding to pay for it outside of the budget cycle. This is setting up an investment pipeline—a long-term, sustainable investment pipeline, a reliable pipeline of projects to ensure housing is built year after year, not just budget by budget. This is the confidence the housing sector needs and has been asking for.</para>
<para>Chairing the Senate Economics Committee inquiry into these bills, I heard firsthand just how urgent and needed these reforms are. Housing experts came to our hearing and described the reforms as 'absolutely urgent', 'transformative', 'critical' and 'a timely reassertion of the national leadership on housing'. Advocates said that we need to 'start building immediately' and that this is a 'significant and much-needed new investment'. Emma Greenhalgh, the CEO of National Shelter, told the public hearing:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We cannot underplay the sense of urgency for social and affordable housing … We're playing catch up from over a decade of inaction and the fund should only just be the start.</para></quote>
<para>These organisations are dealing with these issues every day, and they know just how needed these reforms are. Speaking about the need to set up a pipeline of housing investment, Ms Rebecca Oelkers, the National Director of the Community Housing Industry Association, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's absolutely urgent. It's one of the biggest issues, I believe, facing Australia as a nation.</para></quote>
<para>Witness after witness to our inquiry said just how urgent the issue is and how welcome it is that a Commonwealth government is finally going to do something about it. Across the board, the housing sector has been calling for these reforms. They've been crying out for these reforms. Housing providers, charities, construction companies, investors and peak bodies—the list goes on and on—all support these bills.</para>
<para>We are partnering with the community housing sector to provide 20,000 new social and 10,000 new affordable homes just in the fund's first five years. Four thousand of those social homes will be specifically for women and children escaping family violence as well as for older women, who are at the greatest risk of homelessness—homes for people who are in desperate need of secure, affordable, good quality accommodation. Additionally, 10,000 affordable homes will be allocated to frontline workers, including police, nurses and cleaners, who are increasingly priced out of the areas that they actually work in. This is ambitious reform, and it's reflective of the issues at hand. We need to get started.</para>
<para>Importantly, funding decisions will be made at arm's length from the government by Housing Australia, because people's lives should not be subject to the political colour-coded decision-making practices those opposite relied on while they were in government. Through these bills, we will ensure that future governments don't pick winners in marginal seats to win votes. Instead, decisions will be made independently based on need and geography. Stakeholders right across the housing sector have told us that we need to pass these bills. They know how urgent and much needed these reforms are. They know that they are transformative and that they will make people's lives better. It's clear what the Senate now needs to do, and that is end the delays and support these bills right now.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before making my contribution, I just want to respond to a few of the points raised by Senator Walsh. In particular, we're not voting against the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill because of fear, Senator Walsh. We're voting against this bill because it is bad policy. I'll talk about why in a moment, but let me make that very clear.</para>
<para>Where did Senator Walsh start? With listing those who support this—state governments and industry associations in the housing sector. Well, quite frankly, surprise, surprise! A big bucket of 'free money' is supported by the state governments. This shouldn't come as a blinding shock to anybody. In fact, if you had to invent a caricature of a Labor-Greens policy proposal, this bill would be it.</para>
<para>Imagine you were writing a script for <inline font-style="italic">The Hollowmen</inline>. I'm sure many of the listeners out there remember that fine ABC show about Canberra and this place and how policy is created. Imagine you were writing a script for that show and you said: 'The main characters are sitting down in a room with a whiteboard. We need a housing policy! Oh, we haven't got enough money for a housing policy. Where can we get some? We can borrow some money! $1 billion? $2 billion? No, let's make it $10 billion! Oh, everyone will react to that—$10 billion of government borrowing. You'd have to look at that seriously, wouldn't you? And then we'll invest that money, and we'll try and make enough money out of investing that money to build some houses.' That is the policy that this government has come up with. It literally should have been a script for <inline font-style="italic">The Hollowmen</inline>.</para>
<para>The Housing Australia Future Fund will be capitalised with $10 billion of Commonwealth government debt. With a 10-year government bond rate at four per cent and rising, $10 billion of borrowing will cost the government $400 million per annum in interest-servicing costs before they build one house. Think about that for a moment—$400 million per annum before one house is built. It also adds to inflationary pressures in the economy. Borrowing $10 billion adds to inflationary pressures. So we've got a housing policy that adds to inflationary pressures and incurs $400 million of debt per annum in servicing costs alone before a house is built. If it wasn't so serious for the Australian economy, it would be a joke. It should be treated like a joke by those in this place, but it's part of the Labor-Greens alliance. They had a little tiff on the way, but in the end, this joke of a policy, with the Labor and Greens support, is going to be enacted, and that is a very sad thing for this nation.</para>
<para>I think we should take housing policy seriously. I think we should seek to see every Australian who wants to be in a home of their own, in a home. I think we need to look at ways—and the state governments in particular need to look at ways—of making housing more affordable and more available. That has to be done at the supply side. We need to see more homes on the market. We need to see the regulatory barriers to land being made available for the works that local government needs to do to get those blocks to be available. We need to see all of those streamlined to the absolute nth degree at the moment. We want young Australians to be able to get into the housing market.</para>
<para>We also want to see the unnecessary regulation—red tape, burdens—gone. There is one particular new housing development in Western Australia where I have had it quoted to me that because of the requirements of the build in that area each house is going to cost at least $30,000 more than it otherwise would if it weren't for those regulatory burdens. This isn't the way to get young people into housing. We need to get rid of that red tape and get more properties onto the market, and we need to get more land released. That is the way to bring housing prices into an affordable place in the economy so young people can get into the housing market.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023. This bill originally proposed to invest $10 billion and then spend the earnings up to $500 million a year on affordable and social housing projects. In its original formation there was no guarantee that there was going to be any money spent on housing. If the returns from that investment weren't good enough then the money just wasn't going to be spent. As everyone knows, we are here tonight because there has been pressure, campaigning and advocacy from the Greens here in this parliament and, particularly, across the country, and we have managed to negotiate an extra $3 billion to be spent on public social affordable housing upfront this year. This is $3 billion that is not dependent on a gamble on the stock market. It is $3 billion that will be spent immediately and directly this year—six times the maximum that the government had originally said it was willing to spend on an annual basis.</para>
<para>This extra $3 billion investment is the direct result of the Greens pressure. We have also closed the no-minimum-spend HAFF loophole and forced the Labor government to guarantee a minimum spend of at least $500 million annually from the HAFF, starting in 2024-25. These are very significant outcomes that have been achieved because of Greens pressure and Greens power. To everyone who told us over the last nine months to give in, to not stand in the way of a pittance being spent on social and community housing, and that a drop in the bucket was better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, we want people to see that standing up to Labor's inadequate bills and staying at the negotiating table has delivered better outcomes. If people in the community sector praise Labor for delivering crumbs and only offering crumbs, that's all we're going to get.</para>
<para>The other huge outcome of us not giving in, of ramping up the campaign, of mobilising the community on this issue and of keeping working for more is that we have put the appalling circumstances of so many renters across this country front and centre on the public agenda. You need only to open up a newspaper, turn on the telly or look at your social media to see the plight of renters has been there in the public eye day after day.</para>
<para>The Greens supporting this bill tonight is basically us saying, 'Yes, it's a really good, solid start.' It's a solid start on investment in public and community housing. We know, however, that the campaign to be getting a good deal for renters has only just begun. Labor has refused still, despite our negotiations, to do anything to support renters. So we're putting the government on notice that the campaign with regard to renters has only just begun.</para>
<para>Renters have been ignored by Labor and Liberal governments alike. Rents have absolutely skyrocketed. People are living in hovels, with holes in the floor, rats under the bed and landlords who are unwilling even to make the most basic of investments to make these hovels habitable. They're paying through the nose for it, and being threatened,' If you complain, you're out on your ear—you're being evicted!' That's at the whim of greedy landlords, but governments have basically said, 'There's nothing we can do.' This government here in particular wash their hands of it and say, 'No, there's nothing we can do—it's all up to the states.' They're completely abrogating their responsibility for the basic human right for people to have a roof over their heads and a house in decent condition to call home.</para>
<para>The Greens have been talking to renters and to people in poverty who are paying upwards of 80 per cent or even more of their income in rent. We know what they want: they want rent controls. They want a rent freeze against the skyrocketing rents at the moment and they want rent controls. And those of them who are on income support want those rates of income support raised above the poverty line. There are few issues as fundamental as having a safe and stable place to call home. People are struggling to find a place that they can afford to live in with dignity. And just as poverty is a political choice, so is the state of housing in our country. It's a choice that this government is making daily. These choices have real consequences for Australians struggling to make ends meet, far beyond the chambers of this parliament.</para>
<para>The housing crisis in Australia is not a recent development; it has been simmering for far too long. We have to recognise that access to affordable and suitable housing is a fundamental human right. And it's the role of government to ensure this right for every Australian. We note that investment by the federal government and by state and territory governments in public affordable housing has completely fallen off a cliff over the last 20 years. This crisis has been developing in full sight. In tackling the public housing waiting list, we know that 640,000 people are on social housing waiting lists across the country. It's estimated that we should be spending $15 billion a year to make decent inroads into this, so the $3 billion that we have managed to negotiate with the government—and why we're supporting this bill—is a good, solid start, but it's still way less than what is needed. We're going to keep the pressure up on that!</para>
<para>This housing crisis extends far beyond economic considerations. It affects our society's overall wellbeing, health and stability. How many future changemakers are missing out on crucial opportunities simply because they're unable to make ends meet? As the chair of the Community Affairs References Committee, I've heard countless stories of poverty and deprivation over the last year. For so many people, the housing crisis is at the centre of so many of these stories. Housing factors, such as insecurity and lack of affordability, have been identified as core structural drivers of poverty. The Victorian Public Tenants Association characterised the relationship as interconnected, that poverty in Australia cannot be separated from our housing problem. They're wicked siblings, each driving growth in the other.</para>
<para>We've also heard evidence at our inquiries into poverty in Australia and in our inquiries into the worsening rental crisis of how housing represents the highest cost in most family budgets. Those with lower housing costs, especially those who own houses outright, can achieve a higher standard of living than people on the same income who have higher housing costs. The more people pay on rent the less they have for other essentials, like food, medication and essential health care. At the poverty inquiry, Isabelle told us:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I have seen how this country treats poor people. I've been on the receiving end of it long enough to have had a gutful, and it regularly makes me think, 'Hey, maybe death might not be such a bad idea.' I was born in 1994, and the policy of the government—by which I mean every government in my lifetime—has been to break us down and then pay someone a hell of a lot of perfectly good taxpayer money to do nothing except tell us that you're going to starve us if we don't drag ourselves back up by our bootstraps.</para></quote>
<para>I met yesterday with Melissa, a wonderful person and tireless advocate. She shared with me her experience of living in poverty. The story she shared with me last year really encapsulates the situation of people living in poverty and living with housing they just cannot afford. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm on Jobseeker with a reduced capacity to work due to chronic illness and disability. I live on 330 dollars a week. It was hard to survive before inflation hit but now it's devastating.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I'm great at budgeting but now budgeting means not buying the basics. It means rationing out food to last a fortnight. If I've budgeted well I can eat one meal a day. If another expense comes up I have to choose which days I need to skip food completely. I try to choose days I have no appointments so I can sleep through the hunger.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In November last year I was diagnosed with scurvy and malnutrition. Let that sink in. A country as wealthy as Australia and I'm unable to eat enough good food to get the nutrients I need to live. This has a devastating effect on my health. How can I possibly get work-ready when I can't afford to live? Yet jobseekers are expected to be able to find employment under these conditions.</para></quote>
<para>I reiterate that this was last year. Nothing had changed for Melissa when I met with her yesterday. In fact, Melissa's situation has worsened as a result of the skyrocketing costs of living. Transport, medicine, bills, food and rent—there's nothing that hasn't increase. As I've said before, it's expensive to be poor.</para>
<para>Finally, this is the story of someone struggling to pay rent on JobSeeker:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My rent has just gone up $60 a week. This is after a $35 a week increase the previous time. $95 in 13 months is more than a 25 per cent increase. Once I pay the new rent and allocate my fortnightly bills—I add up all my bills for the year and divide by 26 to make sure I have enough to pay them all—I have $18 left over for food and everything else. I, therefore, shop at a foodbank and purchase out-of-date food to eat. There is very little fresh fruit and veggies, and my bloodwork now indicates my heightened cholesterol—something I've never had in my whole life. I also have severe anaemia, but cannot afford iron tablets. Rent is well over half of my income. A $2 a day increase doesn't even cover my rent increase, let alone everything else.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">My neighbours had their lease renewal withdrawn after they asked to negotiate a $40 a week increase. Another set of neighbours left their property after a similar increase to mine. That was three working individuals who could no longer afford the rent. But with me on income support and only .4 of a per cent vacancy rate where I live I knew that I would be homeless if I asked to negotiate. No owner is going to want a renter on Centrelink benefits because they know that they will struggle to pay the rent, despite my personal history of always paying on time. My greatest fear is becoming homeless, and one more rent increase will result in that.</para></quote>
<para>It's clear that we need action on rents and we need it now. We're here tonight because we have an extra $3 billion on public and community housing. Labor first of all said that it was impossible to spend any direct money on housing, and then they did it. Now they're still saying it's impossible to coordinate national limits on rent increases, but it's not. Just like the federal government was able to coordinate putting controls on power bills, the federal government is absolutely able to coordinate rent freezes and rent controls. Every state and territory other than Tasmania is a Labor government. Now is the time, the opportunity, for our Prime Minister to get all of these people together and say: 'The situation is desperate. We are in a crisis. We need to have rent controls. We need a rent freeze.' Over the next 12 months there's going to be an estimated $4.9 billion of rent increases. Given Labor have refused to lift a finger to do anything about rent increases, all of those rent increases are now on Labor's watch. They are now the Labor Party's fault. They had the power at National Cabinet to freeze and cap rent increases, and they refused.</para>
<para>We're going to support the passage of these bills this week, but we are putting the government on notice. The Greens absolutely are now turning our attention to fighting for the rights of renters—renters who have been left behind by these bills. That fight has just begun. Renters are powerful and their votes are powerful. We shouldn't have to fight this hard to get Labor to limit rent increases during this rental and housing crisis but we do and so we will. Rents never go backwards, so if Labor do not act now, they are sleepwalking into a crisis that will see housing become less affordable, more people evicted and hundreds of thousands of people joining the housing waiting list. That is the reality for people right now. Nothing changes if nothing changes, so I am desperately calling on Labor to work with the Greens to address this crisis.</para>
<para>We could have an emergency rent freeze being put in place right now, side by side with this bill, or what we can have is Labor continuing to side with the property developers to funnel more money into the pockets of the ultra-wealthy. This bill is a solid beginning but it is not enough. It does nothing for renters. We Greens are going to keep on fighting for renters, fighting for those 30 per cent of Australians in rental properties. An affordable and acceptable homes is the right of every Australian.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution to the debate on these bills, which are finally looking like they will get through. But I do need to make clear that these bills could have already been through this parliament but for what I will call an unholy alliance between the former government—the Liberal-National parties—and the Greens party, who obstructed its passage. I am glad that it is here today and I am glad it is here ahead of the time line that was scheduled for its return. But the reality is, in the land of mythology and the land of no, nothing good happens for Australia. The mythical world that the Greens seem to believe in and want to exist and the opposition, who just say no to everything, is a very dangerous alliance that gets in the way of good outcomes for Australians.</para>
<para>I want to say, as a Labor senator, I am here with renters. It is hard to rent a property if there are none being built. It is hard to rent a property if there is no supply and if you had a government like we had for the last 10 years not doing anything about supply, just saying, 'Leave it to the property developers to build. The market will provide.' Well, clearly, that failed and they didn't do their job as a government. So let me formally say that I am very pleased to inform the chamber and even more pleased to inform the Australian people that the Albanese government has yet again delivered on promises made to the Australian public only one short year ago.</para>
<para>So often in this place we move very quickly from one issue to the next, one idea to the next, without properly taking stock of what has been achieved. In one short year of the Albanese Labor government, young families are able to feel that little bit less anxious as they take their child to their first day of daycare, not because of the cost but because it is one small milestone that has been passed that means they can enjoy the benefits of the Albanese childcare policy. Nine-year-old children will be able to get new school shoes for school while also leaving money for mum to buy petrol for the week as the single parenting payment is raised. The dilemma between a student focusing on their studies and working pay cheque to pay cheque is eased as youth allowance and rent assistance—the largest increase in rent assistance, by the way; you won't hear that from the Greens, who are delusional about these matters—are raised, making one's commitment to their future an easier decision to make and retain. Graduates are able to choose to embark on industries such as critical minerals and clean energy, reflecting a brighter future as a burgeoning technological power with the support of the Modern Manufacturing Fund. And older Australians too, one year into the Albanese Labor government can now look to have a higher more reliable standard of care as aged-care homes are working to be staffed 24 hours a day with a registered nurse to provide around-the-clock support to citizens who have given so much to this great country. They're some of the things that we've done, and now Australians will have more help in purchasing their own home as the Albanese government makes a sustainable investment into the continued supply of housing stock in Australia. Doing nothing, as the former government did, simply didn't work. We are in a maelstrom; that's been the construction of a failure to think carefully about policy and to act properly and carefully as a government to invest where that is required in the interest of the nation.</para>
<para>The list that I just read demonstrates that curation of effective, measured and meaningful policy can have tangible, powerfully positive impacts on the lives of all Australians as they step through their various stages of life with the help and the support of their government, and that's not—and nor should it ever be—a for-profit enterprise that derelicts its duty to its citizens when the need is so glaringly obvious. While those opposite seem to see every citizen as a taxpayer or a recipient in some sort of financial economic accord and only see them myopically in that way, the Labor Party responsibly manages the economy but also sees the people of Australia for the full potential that they can bring on our growing journey as a nation to shared prosperity and development. But they need a government that responds to the market challenges of the times, and that is what the Housing Australia Future Fund will do.</para>
<para>It gives effect to a number of the government's election commitments in the housing portfolio. We committed to establishing the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund, which has come to be known as the HAFF, to increase social and affordable housing and to help address acute housing needs. We're doing that with mindfulness to respond to the reality that we really need to provide a response to women and children who are fleeing domestic violence. They have very particular needs in housing. They have been ignored, denied, silenced. For older women who are at risk of homelessness, we are dedicated to making sure there is a space for those women. We are dedicated to the service of provision of a house for our veterans. Of course, regional areas—in fact, the most remote areas of the country, particularly Indigenous communities—we know are in great need.</para>
<para>We've gone on to establish the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council and we've given it the status of an independent statutory advisory body. The council has a critical role. It's going to inform the Commonwealth's approach to housing policy by delivering independent advice to the government on housing supply and affordability, and that will assist renters. So any discussion here in the chamber that tries to suggest one party as the champions of renters is creating a myth that should not be allowed to stand. Supply is the answer for everybody in Australia who needs a house, whether it's one that they purchased through a mortgage, one that they live in mortgage-free, one that they aspire to have and are saving towards or one that they live in as a renter.</para>
<para>Changing the name of the National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation, NHFIC, to Housing Australia was important because that's the job: housing Australia. It also streamlines its functions and makes further changes to provide certainty to the community housing sector and investors. Just this week the Albanese government announced a welcome new support for the Housing Australia Future Fund, meaning the housing legislative package is going to pass the Senate this week.</para>
<para>I'd like to highlight that this housing policy has both mass appeal and mass consensus across broad swathes of Australian society. Despite the interruption here in the Senate from that unholy alliance between the Liberal-National Party and the Greens political party, it has always been our commitment prior to the election, delivered through this legislation, and included the support of housing groups. It has always had, and retains, the support of the unions. It has always had, and retains, the support of businesses. It has always had, and retains, the support of people who are renting, pensioners, young people and everyone in between—and, I can happily say, many on the crossbench who are listening to community, unlike the Greens political party and the Liberal and National parties, who sought to prevent the advance of this bill.</para>
<para>I think all of that broad, deep, massed support shows that the Labor government brought the Australian public, good governance and investment, in a very wise policy way, to this wicked problem of so many people being in housing distress or unhoused. The policy that is borne out in the HAFF legislation before us is an extremely sensible policy. It's designed to produce reliable, out-of-budget contributions to the housing market at the bottom end. It's both sustainable and able to grow continuously as it matures. This pipeline of housing investment and support for Australia's most vulnerable dwellers will do incredibly well in improving the life of every Australian.</para>
<para>I note that this action of responsible government—saying what you're going to do and creating the legislation to do what you said you were going to do and then progressing it through the parliament—is very different to the inaction and dereliction of duty that so characterised and plagued the Morrison government. Mr Morrison, for all his many ministerial hats, did absolutely nothing to increase supply in a constricted housing market. Instead he chose inaction and denial. In Mr Morrison's particular case, perhaps it was a case of too many cooks spoiling the broth: with so many portfolios—Finance, Health, Treasury and Home Affairs—he didn't have sufficient time to focus on this critical issue of Australians needing a roof over their heads. But, thankfully, the Australian people voted for change. They voted for the change to an Albanese government, and we have made a habit every single day of working hard and delivering for Australians during every step of their life journeys. Getting a house, a roof above your head for yourself and your family, is a vital part of the journey, whether you're in good financial circumstances or you find yourself in very difficult financial circumstances.</para>
<para>As a senator for New South Wales, I want to highlight the transformational impact that this government's had on the constituents that I'm proud to represent. The Albanese government's working with states and territories to help them meet the ambitious new target to build 1.2 million well-located new homes over five years from July, through our $3 billion new homes bonus and our $500 million Housing Support Program. This builds on the Housing Accord we announced last year in the budget, which includes federal funding to deliver 10,000 affordable homes across the country, to be matched by states and territories, including New South Wales.</para>
<para>The reality is that there is a separation between the states and there are things we can and can't do. As much as we might have some contributions from the Greens political party in this chamber declaring the world to be a particular way, the reality is that we need to work collaboratively with the states. They have powers to do some things. They do not have powers to operate others. Last year, this government unlocked up to $575 million in funding from the National Housing Infrastructure Facility to build more social and affordable rental housing in New South Wales, and in the last budget we delivered an additional $2 billion in financing for more social and affordable rental housing in New South Wales through NHFIC. The National Housing and Homelessness Agreement is critical, and through that we've already delivered $498.2 million to New South Wales in the financial year 2022-23. That, importantly, includes funding for homelessness services. Over the next year, 2023-24, we'll deliver, through the National Housing and Homelessness Agreement, $515.6 million to New South Wales. That includes $9.46 million for homelessness services. This agreement delivers funding to build more homes and support frontline homelessness services.</para>
<para>In terms of getting a better deal for renters, let me just be clear. I said I stand with renters. We've all rented at some point in time. Those who seek to rent are desperate for more supply. We know that there are 957,800 renters in New South Wales alone. That's not going to get shifted in a day. We have to work with the states and territories to deliver a better deal. This is about: consistent policy to implement requirements for genuine reasonable grounds for eviction; moving towards limiting rental increases to once a year; ensuring victims of domestic and family violence have the support they need to find a secure, safe, affordable home; considering options for better regulations of short-stay residential accommodation; and phasing in minimal rental standards.</para>
<para>This focus on housing that we are undertaking is in complete contrast to the nine years of neglect from the Liberal and National parties that we are following. It comes from a deep understanding within this government by the Labor Party that housing is an intrinsic part of the social compact. How can you possibly get up and get ready to go out for a job interview if you haven't been able to shower and get clean in the morning, if you haven't got clothes that are clean and ready to go, if you can't manage to get your mobile plugged in? These fundamental things have long been known to be hugely problematic, but we have no response. The opportunity in New South Wales is really being amplified by a group called Housing Now alliance. Their goal is to deliver more than 300,000 new homes over the next five years, and for New South Welshmen and women that is the equivalent of 30 new copies of Surrey Hills. It's a big task. It's an amazing alliance of good Aussies who are going to get together and get on with the job. I will have more to say about that in the future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related bills. First, let me say that housing and housing affordability is a core concern of the coalition, and we're proud of our track record on delivering housing. We created the National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation, we supported more than 300,000 Australians into homeownership with over 160,000 first home buyers in 2021 alone. That was a 70 per cent increase on the average of the previous decade. We protected the residential construction industry through the HomeBuilder program, which ensured that when the pandemic crisis had subsided Australia still had a construction industry. We provided $2.9 billion of low-cost loans to community housing providers to support 15,000 social and affordable dwellings, saving $470 million in interest repayments to be reinvested in more affordable housing. And we established the First Home Super Saver Scheme, helping 27,600 first home buyers accelerate their deposit savings using their superannuation.</para>
<para>Housing affordability is in the coalition's DNA, right back to the generation of homeowners fostered by the policies of Sir Robert Menzies—his little capitalists. Unfortunately, under the Labor government the Australian dream is now flailing. Right now, 70 per cent of young people don't think they will ever be able to buy a home. That's a damning statistic. What it shows is very clear: we need a solution, one that will actually deliver an outcome for Australians instead of simply inflating already-record levels of construction prices or costing Australians billions of dollars in interest.</para>
<para>It's clear in my own state of Victoria, where I heard from residents that it's becoming harder and harder to afford a home. That's why I am hosting a housing affordability forum in the electorate of Higgins, so that I can hear from local residents directly, and discuss real and practical solutions to this crisis. I encourage any interested Victorians listening tonight to join me and my good friend the Victorian shadow minister for home ownership and affordability, Jess Wilson, next Monday night on 18 September, so that we can work together for our communities.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, the bill that's in the chamber today will not deliver affordable housing. This package of bills is exemplary of when policy collides with flawed ideology. Let's be very clear on what this bill before the chamber is and what has been done as part of a deal behind closed doors between the radical Greens and Labor government to get this bill through. The National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023 establishes the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council as an independent advisory body to the Commonwealth on matters relating to housing supply and affordability. The bill's explanatory memorandum states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Council will build a strong evidence base to support the Commonwealth in developing housing policy and positioning the Government to closely collaborate with the States and Territories on increasing housing supply and improving housing affordability.</para></quote>
<para>This, in isolation, would potentially be something that the coalition could support. Let's be honest: this Labor government seems to have absolutely no idea of their own on housing, so the idea of having a body that can provide them with some advice is not perhaps the worst one that has come before this chamber. That said, there are still questions to answer on this, and the first one that pops to mind of course is why does the government not have faith in the Treasury to provide that independent advice? That's because it has responsibility for housing. Perhaps that's a question for the government; it's also a question for Treasury, and one that I'm sure we'll pursue at estimates. I will leave that to the Secretary of the Treasury to raise with the Treasurer and with the minister for housing in the meantime.</para>
<para>The Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023 amends existing legislation to replace references to NHFIC in the NHFIC Act with Housing Australia. It implements recommendation 6 of the NHFIC review, an extension of the Commonwealth guarantee of liabilities of Housing Australia to apply for contracts entered into after 30 June 2028.</para>
<para>The final part of this package, though, is where it really gets interesting. This is the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, where the poor policy really gets going. Let's be clear: this is a dog of a bill: $10 billion of borrowed money will be put into a fund that invests in Australian equities, international equities, bonds and—hell's bells!—in property, ironically, with uncertain returns. This is borrowed money invested in a fund that has uncertain returns. There is no guarantee of a revenue stream from this fund. There is no guarantee that a single home will be built from this fund before the next election. There are no KPIs on the number of houses built, on where they will be built or by when they will be built.</para>
<para>This is their policy; this is what we're discussing tonight. Senator O'Neill lamented how long this legislation has taken to pass. Well, if the fund had been legislated last year, the Commonwealth would have lost money! It would have lost approximately $370 million. So thank heavens it isn't being implemented until now, because with the 10-year government bond rate at four per cent and rising, that $10 billion borrowing would have cost the Commonwealth around $400 million per annum in interest-servicing costs on that debt. That, combined with the loss on the investment, would have created a total loss for the taxpayer of about $770 million, so not even $1 would have been available for social and affordable housing projects. This is simply a transparent and blatant attempt to deliver an enormous, astounding number—$10 billion. But it ensures that it doesn't hit the bottom line. Ten billion dollars sounds fantastic, but there is no guarantee that there will be a return on investment and no guarantee that a single house will get built. Moreover, the IMF has already warned the government that the proliferation of these funds, these off-balance-sheet funds, should be avoided in the context of our growing debt under Labor.</para>
<para>This fund is bad policy from start to finish; it's just bad policy. But, as we saw this week, bad policy is now complemented with a strong dose of flawed ideology. The Labor government has gone to its natural ideological partners, the Greens, to do a deal. The Greens, let's not forget, have been pushing for radical policies like rent caps and rent freezes—policies that even a moron in a hurry knows will simply push investors out of the market and make it harder to find rental properties. The Labor government irresponsibly entertained these suggestions. One expert witness at the cost of living inquiry said in relation to rent freezes:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the confidence in the property market at the moment has taken a real hit because of some politicians playing games. If we look at rent control in other OECD cities around the world, it's been an unmitigated failure. I can send you the reports around rent freezes and rent control—Berlin, San Francisco and New York. Dublin even had a crack—even Russia. Berlin had a crack, and it didn't work.</para></quote>
<para>And so this week we've seen the final deal: yet more money, another billion dollars, rushed out the door with no thought, no KPIs, no strings attached. Indeed, it was at that cost of living inquiry that Treasury officials confirmed this. They confirmed that payments to the states and territories were not linked to any requirement to reform planning, reform zoning laws or reform development regulations, or to productivity. Imagine giving $2 billion away without linking it to more housing supply. That is what the Labor government did, and then they added to it again.</para>
<para>Officials also confirmed that there was no commitment sought from state governments to maintain their level of spending on social housing. That, of course, leaves the door open for states to use this payment to simply prop up their budget bottom lines. It's business as usual but it's: 'Have some more money to do it.' And, despite the budget being delivered just weeks before, these were new, unbudgeted funds rushed out the door before the end of the financial year—this, apparently, from a party of fiscal responsibility. Well, save us!</para>
<para>Despite the rhetoric of the Greens and the government, this bill and the $1 billion additional payment that got it through parliament will not actually deliver houses to Australians. The bill won't bring down costs, which have skyrocketed under this government. There have been 11 interest rate rises on Labor's watch. A family with a mortgage of $750,000 has to pay an additional $22,000 per year on their home loan—$22,000 for the average family. That's not the sort of money you find down the back of the couch. That's happened on Labor's watch.</para>
<para>Rather than reducing their spending to get inflation under control so that the RBA doesn't have to do all of the heavy lifting with the one tool it has in the shed, the government has decided, for two budgets in a row now, to spend even more. It's that natural Labor urge to spend more and more—an additional $185 billion more. The last budget was called 'unambiguously expansionary' by Betashares' chief economist. It was called 'stimulatory' by UBS's chief economist. Cherelle Murphy, the chief economist from EY, said at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… inflation is already running at an annual rate of 7 per cent and more than one in every four dollars spent in the Australian economy is by a state, territory, local or federal government—</para></quote>
<para>one in four dollars in this economy spent by government! No wonder inflation is out of control.</para>
<para>Core inflation even now is twice the RBA's recommended band. With inflation at these levels and confirmation just last week that Australia has entered a per capita recession, I can understand why so many Australians, and particularly young people, believe that owning their own home may well be out of reach. First home buyers are at the lowest level since the Gillard government. New home starts have dropped by 6.6 per cent, and new housing approvals are 13.5 per cent lower compared with this time last year—on Labor's watch.</para>
<para>Australians need a policy that will deliver greater supply of land, remove the grit in the wheels, get rid of zoning laws and the gridlock of approvals and get down the cost of new homes, not more vanity funds that are in Labor's stable. So my coalition colleagues and I will oppose this irresponsible and poorly thought out bill that will cost Australians billions more while not guaranteeing even a single new house for one Australian family.</para>
<para>I hope desperately that I have to eat my words, but I will lay odds that, come the day of the next election—the day the next election is called—there will not have been one single house completed from the Housing Australia Future Fund. Shame on you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023. If this legislation and the related bills are the government's whole response to the rental crisis engulfing Australia, the response falls very short of what's needed.</para>
<para>Labor says it will borrow $10 million and invest it in a fund to generate returns of $500 million a year that may be spent to build 30,000 new homes over five years. That is $2.5 billion for 30,000 homes, minus the cream skimmed, but more bureaucrats to oversee the fund. Labor obviously needs some remedial education in basic maths because that is only a bit more than $83,000 per home. According to the Bureau of Statistics, it costs an average of $471,000 to build a new house in Australia, and that figure was reported in April 2022. It is also very hard to see how Labor's construction plans won't similarly take away from private construction the tradies and materials that are already in short supply. Labor needs to understand that 30,000 homes will barely make a dent in the estimated national housing shortfall of 650,000 homes. This is much too little, much too late. The housing and rental crisis is like a tortoise. You could see it coming from a long way off a long time ago.</para>
<para>Labor could also use some remedial education in basic economics, because the housing and rental crisis is primarily about too little supply and too much demand. One Nation's policy will increase supply and reduce demand and always puts Australia and Australians first. To increase supply, we must ban foreign ownership of all residential property in Australia. With mortgage stress forcing more Australians to sell their homes, Chinese investors are snapping them up at a rate of $8 million a day. Many of those houses are being left empty. Why has the government cleansed illegal foreign ownership of our housing? Is it because money speaks louder than looking after the vulnerable, the destitute and the homeless? Why hasn't the government moved to address the issue of foreign owned homes lying vacant for months at a time while Australians are forced to live on the streets?</para>
<para>On census night in 2021 more than a million dwellings were vacant. We should ban foreign ownership and give foreign owners a defined period to sell up. It would quickly increase the supply of housing available for Australians. New Zealand has done it. Canada has done it. There is no reason why Australia can't do it with a system that requires agents for sellers to cite documents proving the Australian citizenship of the buyer before the property is transferred.</para>
<para>To reduce demand, we must substantially reduce the huge number of immigrants Labor is bringing into Australia. A study by the Grattan Institute found in 2018 that, for every 1,000 new immigrants, up to 550 dwellings must be built to accommodate them. Across the last financial year and this one Labor will have brought 715,000 new migrants to Australia. That will require more than 355,000 new dwellings just to accommodate them. It makes no sense to allow hordes of immigrants into Australia every year when the country can't find enough homes for the people already living here. It raises the question: do they really want to build the 30,000 homes for Australians or for the migrants they've invited out here? Aussies, make up your own mind. A great example is the foreign student scam. Last financial year more than 250,000 of students were permitted into Australia. Another 187,000 are expected this year because it is a convenient back door for permanent migration. According to the Institute of Public Affairs, on average foreign students took up 70 per cent of net new housing units supplied to the Australian market. I agree with Senator Rennick: our universities generate enormous revenues from foreign students. It's a $40 billion-per-year industry, and it receives billions more from taxpayers. They should be levied to contribute to more housing so their cash cows aren't taking much-needed rental accommodation from Australians. Labor is making the housing rental crisis worse with its immigration policies and international students, and ignoring the majority of Australians who do not support high immigration. Labor's high-immigration policies are also completely incompatible with its extremist green left climate policies. High immigration means higher emissions. Go figure.</para>
<para>One Nation's policy is to allow Australians to access part of their superannuation to buy a family home. One Nation has been speaking to superannuation funds about investing in their clients' own homes as a tenant in common, just as many funds already invest people's super in property. We would limit this to primary residences, excluding investment properties. Upon sale of the home the super fund would take its proportionate share of any gains while the homeowner takes theirs. It would be the super fund making the investment, not the client removing some of their superannuation themselves.</para>
<para>Also, One Nation's policy requires tax reform. GST and state government fees and charges like stamp duty account for 45 per cent of the cost of a new home; 40 to 45 per cent of the price of a new home is actually government tax fees and charges. That's why the Australian people can't afford it. Why don't you address that issue? Many state government fees and charges were meant to be replaced by GST revenue more than 20 years ago. But, as we all know, governments are very reluctant to forgo the taxpayer revenue to which they feel entitled. One Nation also calls for a policy enabling homeowners to rent out rooms in their primary residence tax free. This would help alleviate demand in the rental market and provide a way for homeowners to meet the rising cost of living and rising mortgage payments.</para>
<para>State and territory governments are also making the housing and rental crisis worse, with ever-increasing restrictions on landlords. These people are not the greedy property tycoons we're told they are. The vast majority of these people—around 75 per cent—own only one investment property. They've worked hard and saved carefully to nurture this investment to provide for their income or retirement. However, these days they have fewer rights than their tenants and are facing increased costs, such as insurance and council rates. There was a story on <inline font-style="italic">A Current Affair</inline> earlier this year about a Victorian woman who cannot move back into her own property because the tenant, who hasn't paid rent since July last year, refuses to leave. This woman is more than $65,000 out of pocket and can't even inspect her own property.</para>
<para>Landlords are being forced to accept pets. They're being forced to increase notice to tenants. Queensland's Labor government has joined other states in limiting rent increases to once a year after considering a cap on rent increases. And we know the Greens want a national rent freeze, which is just about the dumbest policy ever proposed in this place. Don't tell people how to run their lives or personal businesses. Don't tell people how to look after their own property. And don't tell people what they can charge for accommodation. Property investors carry all the financial risks in this market—rising council rates, mortgage payments and insurance costs—while tenants carry virtually none.</para>
<para>Investors aren't the problem here. No matter how much Labor and the Greens try to demonise them. The real problem is with governments—tax grabs, record immigration, allowing foreign ownership and lack of land release. Investors are getting out of the long-term rental market and putting their money in safer alternatives like the short-term holiday accommodation market because they are fed up with the government control and have no confidence.</para>
<para>Today's <inline font-style="italic">Courier Mail</inline> reported a survey of Queensland investors that found almost 40 per cent had offloaded at least one property in the past year. Most of these are not being bought up by other investors but by people intending to occupy the property themselves. Investors are also getting out of the market in droves in Victoria. Both states have implemented greater restrictions on landlords to give the appearance they are helping renters but it is having the opposite effect and the market is tighter than ever. Last month the national rental vacancy rate hit a record low figure of 1.1 per cent. Rather than punish landlords and reduce available rentals, we need to incentivise investment in the rental market. A good start would be reducing stamp duty, reducing capital gains tax and restoring the balance of rights between landlords and tenants.</para>
<para>One Nation also calls for reform in the public housing sector, in particular state governments must put an end to decades-long or lifelong public housing leases. Public housing is meant to be a temporary accommodation for those whose circumstances prevent them from affording private rentals. Once people are in a position to afford private rentals they should be required to vacate public housing to make way for others who really need it.</para>
<para>One Nation's policy also addresses red tape roadblocks at state and local government levels. State governments and councils are taking a ridiculous amount of time to release land for new housing. Councils are also spending ratepayers' money on things which are outside their core responsibilities and must prioritise essential services in an effort to prevent unaffordable rate increases.</para>
<para>I acknowledge the issues which have created this housing and rental crisis are complex and have been many years in the making. This is making proposed solutions more complex too, but this is no comfort to Australian families facing increased mortgage payments and rents, facing rapid inflation and enormous energy bill increases. It is no comfort at all to the growing number of Australian families now facing homelessness. We all want to prevent homelessness and, except for the Greens, we all want families to be able to realise the great Australian dream of owning their own home. These bills do not address the cause of the national housing and rental crisis and, in terms of increasing housing supply, they are worthless. One Nation will not support this legislation. What a bitter disappointment this government has been to Australians doing it tough.</para>
<para>I just want to reiterate what Senator Rennick said tonight. He is spot on with the universities. Most of them claim charity status. They are a $40 billion industry. We actually give them funding to the tune of billions of dollars. They bring foreign students into the country, 250,000 this year, and they actually don't contribute. They are a strain on our facilities here in Australia. They say they are bringing so much money into the country, but why aren't we getting taxes out of the universities? It is a $40 billion industry and we get nothing out of it. We actually give them money. You have these vice-chancellors on $900,000 plus a year. Some are on over $1 million a year.</para>
<para>A lot of these students use university as a back door to get into Australia. Most of these university students are taxi drivers, who have come here to study accountancy or some other course and end up only using it to get a back door into Australia, and these students are taking up 70 per cent of net new housing. This is the big problem. What are we getting out of it? For what? Propping up the universities is a big problem.</para>
<para>You know what? It is a shame that the Liberal Party are looking at getting rid of Senator Rennick because he won't get on the ticket. He is a true conservative with values who fights for the Australian people and I support him. It is a shame that he may not be on the ticket at the next election. I would like to see other people go in this chamber like Simon Birmingham, Andrew Bragg, Jane Hume, Richard Colbeck, Dean Smith and the new one, Maria Kovacic. These are all the lefties who actually should be in the Labor Party—and some even in the Greens. You're allowing the moderates into this chamber, which is not the Senate for Australians. As far as Senator Marise Payne is concerned, I'm pleased to see the back end of her, because she's another moderate in the chamber. Thank you very much. Cheers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I withdraw the amendments on sheet 1952, 1953 and 1957 standing in my name.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It gives me great pleasure to rise and speak on the government's Housing Australia Future Fund, which is set to deliver the single biggest investment in both social and affordable housing in more than a decade. This is a key policy that we—the Labor Party, that is—took to the last election to get endorsement from the Australian people. We know that the housing system in Australia over the last decade has not been working for the people. Too many Aussies find the housing market almost impossible to enter, particularly those who are trying to find their first home. Too many Aussies are experiencing or facing homelessness. The Housing Australia Future Fund is an important step towards improving the housing situation that is currently faced here in Australia.</para>
<para>What we know is that the No. 1 issue driving up house prices is the lack of supply. Demand for housing far outstrips supply. This is putting home ownership out of reach for many, many Australians. This supply issue is what the fund will address. The $10 billion fund will help to address the social and affordable housing crisis that we are currently faced with. We are creating a secure, ongoing pipeline of funding for social and affordable homes. Returns from the fund will help deliver on our commitment to providing 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the first five years. The fund returns will also deliver the government's commitments to help address acute housing needs, including $200 million for the repair, maintenance and improvement of housing in remote Indigenous communities, $100 million for crisis and transitional housing options for both women and children impacted by family and domestic violence and for older women at risk of homelessness, as well as $30 million to build housing for veterans who are experiencing homelessness or are at risk of being homeless.</para>
<para>Our policy is backed by many housing experts in the sector, community housing providers and every state and territory housing minister. We have not been sitting still while negotiating for passage of the bills that are before this chamber today. We are determined to tackle the housing affordability issue with every lever available to the federal government. Our $2 billion Social Housing Accelerator is being delivered to states and territories to boost the amount of social housing across the country. Furthermore, the National Housing Accord, funded in our first budget last year, is delivering 10,000 new social and affordable homes and is being matched by every state and territory government. We have also expanded the Home Guarantee Scheme and created the Regional First Home Buyer Guarantee, which has already helped more than 6,000 people achieve homeownership in regional communities right across our great country.</para>
<para>The $1.7 billion National Housing and Homelessness Agreement continues to deliver funding for new builds and important programs to assist the most vulnerable. Further, the government is also funding a 15 per cent increase in Commonwealth Rent Assistance, the largest increase in more than 30 years. By bringing together first ministers from across the country through the National Cabinet, we saw an important commitment recently from the states and territories to reform planning laws. I think there is broad acknowledgement across most of the political spectrum, across industry and among the experts that planning laws are not fit for purpose, and I do believe that we need to do a lot more in that space. But, sadly, we have deal with the states and territories, ensuring that they come to the table on those reforms.</para>
<para>When it comes to addressing serious supply issues in the housing market, it's also important to acknowledge that we have to tackle this supply issue head-on, and this is what the government is determined to do. Our commitment to reform laws is being aided through incentive programs for the states and territories to assist in exceeding targets of 1.2 million new homes over five years. I've heard many contributions this evening in this place, and it's sad to say that the coalition were in government for the last 10 years and they stood by on this; for almost a decade we saw the housing market go from bad to worse. That's why, since coming to government last year, the government has wasted no time in addressing the housing affordability issue front-on. It's attacking the problem with multiple policies in collaboration with the various jurisdictions around the country, as well as working with industry.</para>
<para>The passage of the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill will be an incredibly important step forward and a moment for this place to really fight to turn the tide on housing affordability in this country. I particularly want to thank those on the crossbench who have been working with the government on this policy. I'm glad they've taken the approach of working with the government rather than the approach of the opposition, who have up until today still said no and who are not willing to engage in conversations with our minister. The coalition have refused to engage with the government on this fund, and they don't seem to have any interest in taking steps forward to improve housing affordability or cleaning up the mess. In fact, I don't even know what their policy is today.</para>
<para>This does seem to be a pattern by those opposite, but the government proposes solutions to address the housing affordability crisis that's currently before this country. It's great to see opportunities here to actually fix the problem head-on. The housing fund, as has been reported, and from the contributions of many senators in this place, has the support to see it through the chamber tomorrow. This is good news for the most vulnerable in our community, and good news for the many Australians who have aspirations to own their own homes. That's what we're about: supporting people who have the aspiration to have a roof over their head. This will mean more homes for many workers, particularly low- and middle-income workers. There will be more affordable homes for Australian renters and more homes for those who are most in need. The fund is backed by numerous stakeholders and I'm really glad to see the support of the chamber that will follow through tomorrow morning when this comes to a vote.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Here we are, talking about yet another deal between Labor and the Greens this evening. The Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 is a Labor con job on all Australians. Here's what the Australian Greens' position on this bill was for six months—this is a direct quote from the Greens' housing spokesman. In reference to the government, he said that they're 'gambling $10 billion on the stock market'. That's what the Greens had to say, non-stop, for six whole months on a bill that they're now supporting! They're supporting what they called in their own words 'a $10 billion gamble on the stock market'. We all know that, at the end of the day, for all of their posturing, these two parties are one and the same. We see it all the time at state and federal levels, and I've spoken many times in this place about what happens in my own state of Tasmania in particular when Labor and the Greens get into a cozy relationship in a parliament. Labor goes to an election saying they will never do a deal with the Greens. Then they get elected and they start doing deals left, right and centre with the Greens whenever they can.</para>
<para>This bill is about playing accounting tricks with the budget while dodging the responsibility of actually getting houses built. Once again they are taking billions of dollars off budget not because taking it off budget helps in any way to build more houses but because it assists the government in obscuring the real truth of their own budget position. We are here debating this bill so that Labor MPs can go around and boast that they have created a $10 billion housing fund, but this isn't a bill to build houses. It's a bill to build Labor's talking points about housing. If this bill passes, $10 billion is the amount of money that the Labor government won't be spending on housing. It will be tucking $10 billion away and hoping and praying that the economy and share market goes well so maybe some money can be spent on housing later. Or maybe it will actually go backwards and they will lose money on this housing fund. Certainly, given the way the economy is going, I wouldn't be surprised, but that's the gamble that Labor and the Greens are happy to make. The Greens, indeed, purport to hate gambling—unless the gambling profits are going to be donated to their political campaigns, of course, and then they love it. But this deal shows that they are happy to gamble with taxpayer money. These two parties have no care and no responsibility about managing taxpayers' money.</para>
<para>The best explanation that the Greens can give for this deal for the bill that we're debating here this evening is, 'They gave us $1 billion, so we said it's fine for them to gamble another $10 billion.' Of course, when it comes to actually getting houses built, both Labor and the Greens will wash their hands of responsibility and blame state governments if they don't meet their targets. Mark my words: that is what will happen.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, the Greens-led councils around this country will be doing their very best to stop any of this housing actually getting built in inner-city areas where it's most needed. We see that happen time and time again around Australia, including in Tasmania and especially down in Hobart. When the private sector is trying to build houses and apartments, they get blocked or the costs are raised through different conditions so substantially that they can't go ahead. And it's the Greens on local government that are imposing these conditions on developers. The Greens will be here claiming the credit for building houses because of this deal, but then rest assured they will fly back to their inner-city seats, grab their pickets and go protest against urban housing developments as sure as night follows day.</para>
<para>There is nothing whatsoever in this bill that guarantees that Tasmania, my home state, or indeed any other state in this country will get the speculated number of houses a year from this fund. We will see the Labor government announce it over and over again. We will see the Greens taking credit for it. But you can guarantee that this government, which is allergic to transparency, will make it all but impossible to find out just how many houses have actually been built.</para>
<para>This bill is an absolute con job. It is an attempt to make a claim of spending $10 billion on housing when in actual fact this government will be doing no such thing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today, as we speak about the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and debate the housing plight of so many Australians, the people of Australia are waiting and have been waiting. They were waiting for years under the former government, who never acknowledge their responsibility for a sustainable housing supply for our nation. They always said it was a matter for the states. This is despite the fact that so many of the important levers in our housing supply also belong to the Commonwealth.</para>
<para>We are here today to bring forward a coherent housing policy for our nation, for which Labor has done a great deal of work and for which this bill is the next plank. It's a strong reason all our nation states, as well as the Northern Territory and the ACT, have been so firmly onboard with this bill. The coalition has a legacy of taking absolutely no responsibility for our nation's housing crisis. They've contributed to inadequate housing supply, increased rental prices and decreasing availability by simply being missing in action when it comes to social housing, trades and skills, and putting pressure and negotiating outcomes with the states and putting money on the table. This has resulted in many people who would never have thought they would confront homelessness finding themselves, as so many in our nation do at this point in time, in the unimaginable situation of being without a roof over their head—and this is before we even address the question of so many people in our nation having a roof over their head that is simply unsuitable for their needs: poorly maintained, too small, unaffordable, leaking. I've seen these examples not even in my work but just in day-to-day life.</para>
<para>It's an honour today to stand in this chamber and stand behind our government's Housing Australia Future Fund. We have been working towards this government housing package since long before we came into power. We intend to create real change—sustainable change—and support for the people in our nation who are relying on us. We can't change this overnight, but we can put the levers in place that start to deliver a better housing future for our nation.</para>
<para>As we know, people need a roof over their head—safe, suitable, secure and affordable housing—in order to be able to engage in the community, to work, to have meaningful relationships, to send their children to school, and to have dignity and wellbeing in everyday life. We know that homeownership rates among younger adults in our nation are in freefall. The vast majority of renters now believe they will never be able to buy their own home. This is a fact for this point in time that those opposite have sought to draw on in this debate, as if Labor's policies and this package are somehow part of the problem. But no, in this package and in other work done by the Labor government we put real solutions on the table, such as Western Australia's very successful Keystart program, where governments are able to have equity in a home in order to make that home more affordable. I look forward, under this Labor government, to that being a national program.</para>
<para>About a third of households are now renting. We need a government who's committed to bridging this gap, promoting rental affordability, affordable homeownership and investment in rental housing. Access to housing is something we should all agree is a basic human right. I've been part of the rental inquiries that are before the Senate Community Affairs Committee this year, and I've experienced firsthand the calls of so many people for action. We've seen firsthand that intervention is needed, especially for women and children impacted by family and domestic violence and older women at risk of homelessness. Often because of unemployment, divorce, economic insecurity and a tight rental market, they find themselves in circumstances they never imagined. Sadly, I know many women who have confronted such circumstances.</para>
<para>This is also apparent through the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Women's Alliance, who made a submission to this inquiry where they noted that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women experience higher rates of family violence. We also see child removal, suicide, incarceration, and poorer outcomes in relation to mental health, employment and education, all as a result of a lack of access to suitable or affordable housing. Sadly, it is all too clear to me, from too many examples, how a lack of access to housing and housing support contributes to allegations of neglect that see children taken into care. This organisation said the current worsening rental crisis leaves our women and children without the fundamental human right of an adequate standard of housing, an adequate standard of living, or a right to housing. The first of their recommendations is for urgent and continued measures to meet the increased demand for housing for victim-survivors of domestic and family sexual violence and of other factors that contribute to homelessness across all our states and territories.</para>
<para>Labor understands this. We've worked on it, and the Housing Australia Future Fund is just part of helping us deliver the government's commitment of 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the fund's first five years. This won't be an easy task. We already have housing and construction delays in the private sector that have seen many people under pressure to pay rents in one house and an increasing mortgage on another that is not yet ready to be moved into. Again, we're seeing a delay in housing stock being returned to the rental market. As a nation, we have a really big challenge in front of us, but a challenge that we do not shy away from. It's a challenge that shows what a difference things like fee-free TAFE also make for ensuring that we have the skills we need to deliver the housing our nation needs.</para>
<para>Our social and affordable rental homes will include 4,000 homes for women and children impacted by family and domestic violence, or older women at risk of homelessness. The returns from this fund will also deliver the government's commitments to help address acute housing needs. This includes things like $200 million for the repair, maintenance and improvement of housing in remote Indigenous communities. I have seen firsthand the scale of neglect of this maintenance-and-improvement job left by the last government. It cannot be understated, because time and time again in housing negotiations the last coalition government turned a blind eye and said, 'This is a state responsibility.' We have in this package $100 million for crisis and transitional housing options for women and children affected by family and domestic violence, and older women at risk of homelessness, and $30 million to build housing for veterans who are experiencing homelessness or who are at risk of homelessness.</para>
<para>A couple of years ago when I was walking through the streets of Perth I saw a gentleman scouting for money on the streets of St Georges Terrace and I got chatting to him. He was a homeless veteran. There's so much we can do to make a difference. In this instance I just encouraged him to reach out to the Department of Veterans' Affairs or my office to get reconnected to his payments, and he did. He did it all himself.</para>
<para>He sent me an email of gratitude. I didn't need to be thanked for the basic thing of recognising the importance of his service and, more than that, the importance of his identity as a worthwhile person. I put aside the stigma, the discrimination and his sense of self that had deteriorated so much and I said, 'Just reconnect to the services you need.' I was really pleased with that outcome, but it did show me how much more needs to be done and how important it is to the day-to-day wellbeing of so many, including our veterans.</para>
<para>I'm proud to be part of a government that intends to make a fundamental difference to the people of our nation who are willing to put the time in and who have worked so hard on these reforms. It's about making a difference to housing and putting roofs over people's heads. We have done this in partnership with so many organisations who have advocated for these reforms, investments and policy changes. All of us in the Senate now have an opportunity to back this package—a package that contains what so many experts and housing organisations have called for for a great many years. Together we can reshape Australia's housing policy, setting in place a legacy where the Commonwealth understands its place in working with the states to ensure that every Australian has suitable, affordable housing that provides them a life and a benchmark for dignity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it's important I put some facts on the record about how we find ourselves here this evening. Nine months ago, when Labor's signature housing bill was first introduced, it was nothing more than a $10 billion gamble on the stock market. There wasn't a single dollar of guaranteed investment in public and affordable housing in the bill and renters were invisible in the public debate. That's where we were nine months ago when Labor introduced their bill.</para>
<para>Since then, thanks to the Greens actually standing up to Labor and demanding that Labor be better than what they were nine months ago on housing, we've seen a guarantee of an extra $3 billion invested right now into building public and affordable housing in Australia. That's thanks to the Greens. We've also seen Labor's original policy position that there could be no more than $500 million per year disbursed out of the Housing Australia Future Fund changed from a maximum of $500 million to a minimum of $500 million, so instead of no more than $500 million per year able to be disbursed now at least $500 million a year is able to be disbursed from the Housing Australia Future Fund.</para>
<para>That's what you get when the Greens, with the balance of power in the Senate, are prepared to stand up and demand that the Labor Party do better. All the while the Labor Party said that they couldn't do any better. They said that there was no money available for direct investment into social, affordable and public housing in Australia. They said, 'It all has to go through the HAFF, and there'll be no disbursements from the HAFF until the 2024-25 financial year.' That was Labor's position at the start of this debate nine months ago. Well, how things have changed! They've changed because the Greens were prepared to stand up. What that should say to everyone in this chamber, and what I have no doubt it says to a lot of people in Australia, is that pressure works. I know why people put the Greens into this place: because they know we will stand up and demand better and they know that we won't sell ourselves cheaply.</para>
<para>Speaking about selling yourselves cheaply, I've had some pretty good laughs over the past 24 hours listening to some of the contributions in this place and some of the media and social media contributions, particularly from two senators from my home state of Tasmania: Senator Lambie and Senator Tyrrell. Let's not forget Senator Lambie and Senator Tyrrell have spent months parroting Labor Party speaking points against the Greens. They've come up with the dumbest, stupidest internet memes about the Tasmanian Greens senators—me and Senator Whish-Wilson—that you would ever want to see, and they have spent months deceiving Australians, or trying to deceive Australians, into believing that the Greens' refusal to pass this legislation over the last few months has in some way delayed houses from being built. That is an absolute untruth, because, if you look at the public comments from Minister Collins, at the legislation and at the explanatory memorandum, you will see there would have been no disbursements from this fund until the 2024-25 financial year, which is still eight or nine months away as we stand here tonight. So the only thing the Greens have delayed is the passage of the legislation. We have not delayed the building of a single new home anywhere around Australia. What we have done, despite being told by Senator Lambie, Senator Tyrrell, Prime Minister Albanese, Minister Collins, serried ranks of Labor senators and the vast majority of media pundits that it couldn't be done, is to deliver an extra $3 billion into public and affordable housing in Australia and turn a $500 million annual cap into a $500 million annual floor. We have turned it from, 'You can't spend any more than $500 million,' into, 'You have to spend more than $500 million in every year from the HAFF.'</para>
<para>Why did we do this? Well, there is a fundamental difference between how the Greens view housing and how the Labor and Liberal parties view housing. Minister Collins, two or three months ago on <inline font-style="italic">7.30</inline>, said the quiet thing out loud. She said, 'Labor wants housing to be an investment and asset class in Australia.' Just have a think about that for a minute, colleagues. This is the Minister for Housing saying that Labor wants housing to be an investment and asset class in Australia. There's the difference right there between the Labor Party and the Greens, because the Greens see housing as a place for people to make a home. That's what the Greens see housing as. Labor, as confirmed by the Minister for Housing, sees housing as an investment and asset class in Australia, and it is exactly because the major parties in this place see housing as an investment and asset class that we are in the mess we're in today, where people cannot afford to pay their mortgage or cannot afford the rent rise after rent rise after rent rise that they are facing from unscrupulous landlords who simply see housing as an investment and asset class and who forget that houses are a place where Australians make a home for themselves and for their families and friends. That's the fundamental difference here between the Greens and everyone else. It's why we stood up on this and it's why we've delivered those three billion extra dollars.</para>
<para>So I say to Senator Lambie and Senator Tyrrell, I say to the Labor Party, I say to the LNP opposition and I say to all the media and political pundits around the country who said that we should simply roll over and pass Labor's package unamended: there are three billion reasons why you were wrong. Pressure works, and you will never see a better example of that than this evening.</para>
<para>I also have to laugh, or chuckle, at some of the responses from Labor ministers to dorothy dixers asked by Labor senators in question time today. Who would have known that a whole bunch of Labor ministers have suddenly developed a soft spot for renters? You could have knocked me over with a feather when Senator Wong and Senator Farrell were all hand on heart empathising with how tough renters are doing. Why were they doing that? Because renters have found their voice in this country. The one-third of Australians who rent have found their voice. Do you know what else they've found? They've found a party that is prepared to represent them, a party that is prepared to stand up for them. That party is the Australian Greens. We are here to represent renters, and we're putting Labor on notice that we're not going to stop demanding that Labor do more for renters. We're not going to stop until there are rent controls in this country. We're not going to stop until unlimited rent rises are unlawful in Australia, because houses are a place where people make a home.</para>
<para>Whether you own your own home, you're paying it off or you rent, the house that you live in is the place that you make a home in. We respect that. That's why we are saying that Labor has to do more about corporate profiteering, which is driving up inflation, which is forcing the RBA to put up interest rates, making paying off a mortgage more and more unaffordable for more and more Australians. It's why we are saying that Labor should use the existing powers in the Reserve Bank Act to override the RBA when it goes on its flawed mission of a record series of interest rate rises in Australia, because ultimately in a democracy the power should reside in the hands of those who are accountable to the people, and that is all of us in this place.</para>
<para>Labor has to do more for mortgage holders. Labor certainly has to do more for renters. I've listened again to the excuses that have been ruled by Labor senators: 'Rents are a state and territory issue.' Here is news for Labor. Every state and territory government bar one is actually a Labor government at the moment. Every mainland state and territory is governed by Labor. They are in the same political party as you people. The governments of New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, the Australian Capital Territory, the Northern Territory, South Australia and Western Australia are in your political party. Don't come in here and try to convince us that you can't convince them to act. What a load of rubbish. With any luck, as soon as people in my and Senator Brown's home state of Tasmania get a chance to go to the polls, that will be the end of the last Tory government in the country. Will it make any difference to this? No, because there is no political will in the Labor Party in Canberra to do anything meaningful for renters. That's the problem we are facing here—a lack of political will to do anything for renters.</para>
<para>So Labor's on notice. There are more bills coming down the line in this space, in this parliament, and Labor shouldn't take our support on those bills for granted, because we're putting Labor on notice: stump up and do something for renters. Stump up and put in place some rent caps or a freeze on rent increases. Make unlimited rent rises unlawful. Do something for renters and stop being the party of property speculators and investors. That's what the Labor Party has become. It's almost as if we're dealing with the Australian landlords party rather than the Australian Labor Party.</para>
<para>It's time that renters had a fair go in this place. If there's one great thing that's happened in this debate, it's that renters have found their voice, and they've understood that, if they organise and come together, they are a powerful, powerful political force. They've also come to understand that their votes are powerful. Further, they've understood that the Labor Party has abandoned them—absolutely abandoned renters to the market. There are double-digit rent increases going on right around the country. There are renters getting notices of rent increases of double digits multiple times a year. No wonder homelessness is a growing problem in this country. My home state of Tasmania has the fastest rate of increase in homelessness in the country. In Tasmania, we are at the epicentre of the housing and rental crisis in Australia, yet there are Tasmanian government senators who think it's fine to do nothing for renters.</para>
<para>We are here, unashamedly, as the party of renters. We hear their concerns and we are here to give voice to and act on their concerns. We're proud to have delivered what we have through standing up and demanding that Labor be better: an extra $3 billion available immediately to build public and affordable homes in Australia, and turning a $500 million annual disbursement from a maximum to a minimum. But the job isn't over yet, and there's a long, long way to go before renters have real justice in Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on these housing bills: the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023 and the Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023. I think one thing that unites everybody in this chamber or listening to the speeches on these bills is our desire for more affordable housing for those who want to buy their own family home or those who need to or want to rent. That is something that absolutely unites us all. What divides us is how to achieve that goal.</para>
<para>What we see yet again in these bills is Labor putting rhetoric, spin, and catchy names ahead of the substance that will actually deliver the outcome. Not only is this poor legislation; it is quite a cruel hoax, I think, on Australians around this nation, including so many in my home state of Western Australia, who are absolutely desperately suffering with Labor's cost-of-living increases, to the point where they cannot afford rent or they cannot afford their mortgages or, certainly, to get a mortgage for the first time. These bills are a rerun of what we have now come to expect from those opposite in the Labor government: legislation that is poorly thought through and poorly defined and has insufficient time in Senate committees to improve the bills through the collective wisdom of those in this chamber, as we have done since the Senate was formed.</para>
<para>They are also guillotining important bills like this to push them through before the Greens have a chance to change their mind. I've got to say it was very noteworthy, when I was standing in this chamber earlier in support of a Greens urgency motion, that I observed that Labor, halfway through their first term in government, would be hearing from the Australian Greens that they had been gaslighted and betrayed. I have to say to the Australian Greens: you might think that you've done a good thing with the deal on this bill. But let me tell you: in 18 or 12 months time, when we go to the next federal election, and you look at what the Labor Party has done—not just with this legislation but with so much of its other legislation—Australia will, sadly in this case, not just be standing still but it will be going backwards.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at their record so far, halfway, or a little bit more now, through their term. Not a single one of Labor's promised 30,000 new social and affordable homes have even been started. Even with this bill, I have to ask the Australian Greens: if they haven't been able to build one of 30,000 in over half their term, how on earth are they going to be able to start delivering any of the rest of it which they've promised? Past performance is certainly a good indicator of future performance, and on new social and affordable housing they have a big, fat fail. This has had a significant impact on so many Australians who desperately need these homes and who have been sold a lie by Labor.</para>
<para>To Labor's much-vaunted Help To Buy program with its promised commencement date of 1 January this year: it's late, with no announcement of when this program will even start. That's a second failure of promise and of commitment to some of Australia's most vulnerable people, particularly exacerbated now through the cost-of-living crisis. Thirdly, rents have continued to increase under this government. The fact is that ABS data shows Australian actual rents by new tenants increasing by 14 per cent over the year to February this year, and they're still going up.</para>
<para>For these, and for many other reasons, the coalition will not support the establishment of the Housing Australia Future Fund. It's a hoax, it's a fraud and it's most likely going to be the biggest slush fund that Labor have managed to get for themselves. It's bad policy, simply for the fact that it will be capitalised with $10 billion worth of additional Commonwealth government borrowing. No matter how they try to write it on the books it's still a borrowing, and in this desperate, last-ditch attempt to get its troubled housing bills through this chamber the Albanese government has been forced to cut yet another deal. As I said, this will absolutely be a deal where, in a few months time, the Greens will stand up here and accuse the Labor government of betrayal and gaslighting. That I can guarantee. The sad thing is that not only will the government have been gaslighting the Greens again but they will have let down every Australian who will look at these political announcements and think: 'I'm actually going to be able to get some social housing and I'm actually going to be able to have affordable rent. I might actually be able to start getting my first home,' or, 'I won't actually have to try to sell my house because I cannot afford the interest rates under this government.'</para>
<para>This is, without question, bad policy. This is a particularly low point, even by the very low standards of the Labor Party—which we have come to expect. They're using catchy titles and great promises. I ask the Greens: why would you believe this round of Labor promises when they've broken every other housing promise they took to the election over a year and a half ago? This is not just bad for the entire nation; it's particularly bad for constituents in Western Australia—and I'll come back to that. The difference, as I said, between those on that side of the chamber and those on our side of the chamber when we were in government is not just about the policy, which is all—the policy and the spin—that Labor cares about. It is about good policy. It is about consulting on policy, and it is about producing the best possible legislation to deliver a positive outcome for Australians. This set of legislation will not achieve that.</para>
<para>The bill lacks crucial detail for Australians in a number of ways, and it fails to define key terms, including probably the three most important. Those opposite have not defined social housing. That's a bit of a surprise in legislation that they're saying will assist social housing. They haven't defined affordable housing. Again, there's no definition of social housing, no definition of affordable housing and no definition of acute housing. I cannot believe that the Greens have struck a deal with Labor on something they care so passionately about when the legislation doesn't define social housing, doesn't define affordable housing and does not define acute housing.</para>
<para>This fund provides no certainty as all, as disbursements for the fund will be wholly reliant on the financial performance of the fund's investment in equities and other financial products. And guess what? I say this to the Australian Greens: if the fund had been established last financial year, when Labor wanted it to be established, the Commonwealth would already have lost $370 million out of that fund, in addition to the approximately $400 million in interest on the borrowing. Therefore, these great financial managers who wanted to set up this fund would already, in less than a year, have lost approximately $770 million. That would have meant not a single dollar was available for social and affordable housing projects, which, by the way, they have not yet defined in the legislation they are guillotining through this chamber today.</para>
<para>Shame on them. They talk about the cost of living, about people who need assistance and about families, but, under those opposite, the facts are very, very clear. Cost-of-living pressures have worsened to crisis levels now for millions of Australians due to Labor's high inflation, declining real wages—declining real wages under Labor!—and skyrocketing energy and grocery bills. This is Labor's inflation. As to Labor's bill, I can guarantee you, if you haven't done anything in housing in the first half of your term—and I say to the Australian Greens that they will rue the day they did this deal—nothing will change and the situation will continue to go backwards.</para>
<para>I turn to my home state of Western Australia and what the impact of this will be in my home state. Like other senators, I have been travelling around the state and talking to people across the state and across many different communities. There is no question that Western Australians are doing it really tough, and they're struggling with cost-of-living and household crises as a result. The cost of rentals in capital cities under this government has increased by 11.7 per cent in the year to April this year. Perth is experiencing record rent increases. The median weekly rental rate has risen to over $500. Over 7,000 Western Australians are experiencing homelessness, and one in four is sleeping rough every single night. And this lot want to put the Cook Labor government in charge. They are responsible. Despite all of the rhetoric and hubris from Labor governments, federal and state, the number of people sleeping rough under the Cook government has increased by 104 per cent since Labor came to government. In fact, sadly, Western Australia has been labelled the rough-sleeping capital of Australia. And there is nothing in this bill that will change their circumstances.</para>
<para>Today in Western Australia there are 34,000 Western Australians on the Western Australian public housing list, which is a complete and utter disgrace, and that has increased significantly under the Cook government, which has spent billions trying to fix the problem. All they have done is put more people on the public housing waiting list for far longer. How do you figure that? They have put money into the system but they now have less public housing and more people on the list. This is the crowd that those opposite want to put in charge or give the money to, to make the situation worse.</para>
<para>So for these and many other reasons, we will not be supporting these bills. It is a cruel hoax on all Australians who so desperately need support to be able to afford to rent their homes, to take out a mortgage or to keep their mortgage. This will not do any of it. It will cost federal taxpayers over $10 billion. I guess we have to thank the Greens for delaying this bill because the taxpayer would have lost over $770 million simply by having this fund. What more is it going to cost? So, again, I'm sorry to say this to the Australian Greens but you have been sold a hoax and you will be standing here shortly saying you and all Australians have been gaslit.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Right now in this country there is a housing crisis unfolding. Over 100,000 Australians spent last census night without anywhere to call home, not a safe place, not a place for shelter, nothing permanent, nothing to build your life on—100,000 Australians. Tonight, 9,000 Western Australians will experience a form of homelessness, 12 per cent of them under the age of 12. It is unacceptable that in a wealthy country like Australia so many have to go without a basic human right like housing while others are enabled by decisions made in places like this to hoard housing as a commodity and to treat it as an investment. On average, MPs in this place own 2.5 properties. Think about the symbolism of that. While 100,000 people in Australia have nowhere to call home, the average person in this place has a house to spare. Now, when you think about that for a moment, it begins to explain why this place has overseen a massive commodification and capitalisation of what should be a human right. And make no mistake about it, housing is and has always been a fundamental human right.</para>
<para>Government after government has entered into policy after policy that has driven up prices, driven down availability and there has been a total unwillingness to invest in what has been so desperately needed—the building of new public and social housing at a scale that actually meets demand. Something has to give in this system. Renters are facing their harshest conditions ever, and in this country the social housing waiting list has rapidly expanded while governments—state, federal and territory—do nothing for generations that have been priced out of the housing market and totally barred from the idea of ever being able to afford a home.</para>
<para>In my home state the rental vacancy rate is the lowest it has been in 40 years. Prices are skyrocketing. At the current rate of investment and construction, the social and affordable housing waiting list in Western Australia will not be fulfilled until 3323 at the current rate that the Cook government is progressing that program.</para>
<para>This is something that I have read to the Senate a couple of times in the course of the protracted, months-long debate over this bill in both of the chambers. It still shocks me to read this sentence. In Perth, summers, as anyone from WA would know, are getting hotter and hotter. In the inner metro areas of Perth we are now regularly having 40-degree days—not once, not twice, not as an aberration, but again and again. Not only is this forcing people to attempt to cool down to stay healthy; it's actually forcing people to survive. These are people with roofs over their heads, people who have been lucky enough to scrape together the money, maybe with their friends or their families, to rent a place, yet the landlord refuses to put an air-conditioner in or to make the place in any way sealed, so on a 43-degree day you are forced inside in a place with a tin roof. In the middle of our city, last year alone, renters paid out an extra $5 billion thanks to greedy rent hikes. So on the one hand you've got people trying to survive in their own home and avoid heatstroke, while on the other side you've got people making $5 billion by jacking up the rent.</para>
<para>You would think that the Albanese government, which claims to be progressive, would aim to do something about one of the biggest issues facing Australians today. Instead, their housing plan will actually see the housing crisis in this country deteriorate. It will actually see the situation get worse. What they have given to the community amounts to a single glass of water in a drought. Let's be really open-eyed and honest about what is passing the Senate tonight. It is not a piece of legislation that will do everything that is needed to solve the housing crisis. It is not something that will do half of what is needed to solve the housing crisis in this country. In the context of what people are facing in WA, it amounts to little better than a glassful of water in the middle a drought.</para>
<para>And yet we sit here tonight with that glass at least somewhat reasonably full because the Greens have continued to campaign and push. I am proud that, thanks to community pressure and the relentlessness of campaigners across the country getting out into communities, doorknocking, having conversations, activating their networks, engaging in real grassroots democracy and real grassroots campaigning, we have been able to extract from this government—kicking, screaming and moaning the entire time, as they have—an additional $3 billion in public funding for public and social housing. That is a great achievement, and it falls to every single Green in this place to put the celebration and acknowledgement for that achievement exactly where it belongs—in the hands and the hearts of every single volunteer who joined in our months-long campaign to get that outcome for people, to actually start the work of fixing the problem.</para>
<para>I must be very transparent with the Senate tonight. In the course of this negotiation, in the course of the campaign, I had hoped—I really had hoped—that, with enough opportunity presented to the Albanese government, they would see the reality and the writing on the wall which is the rental crisis in Australia, that after a couple of weeks or a couple of months of a half-hearted resistance to the idea of something as basic and simple as capping rent increases they would join with the Greens in pursuing that reform, particularly as nations such as Germany took up the opportunity. I perhaps had a naive hope that somebody in the government would connect the need to help renters stay in affordable homes with the flow-through impact it would have on a chance of actually clearing the social housing waiting lists in this country. Once you're kicked out of your home because you can't afford the rent, where do you go? You go onto the waiting list that already are locked up for years, because we have structurally underinvested in public housing in Australia for so long.</para>
<para>Yet in negotiation meeting after negotiation meeting they refused to hear the voices of Australian renters as they called out for action and support. Worse than that, they put into the world these ridiculous ideas that the federal government—the poor, helpless federal government!—could never do anything to persuade the big bad state and territory governments to implement a rent freeze or capping process, as though the community hadn't watched them do exactly the same thing on energy prices just before Christmas, as though the community hadn't lived through the reality of the federal government leading that response during the COVID pandemic, as though the Australian community doesn't know, particularly the WA community, that when the Commonwealth wants to get something done it gets the states and territories in a room and it gets it done, particularly when every state on the mainland has a premier or state minister or chief minister from the government's very own party.</para>
<para>It was an absolutely ridiculous notion then. It is an absolutely ridiculous notion now. The Greens will continue to use every single opportunity given to us in this space to push the federal government to do what renters need—to freeze rents, to make unlimited rent increases illegal. Nobody should be able to endlessly jack up the price of somebody's month-to-month home. That is totally unacceptable. We will take every legislative opportunity in this place to do that. And I will tell you this is well: we will take every opportunity in the other legislated spaces in which we are present to force the state and territory governments to act.</para>
<para>There are many campaigners this evening who I'm sure are gearing up right now for the next stage of this housing campaign, of this campaign to see rents frozen. I am very excited to see, at the local government level in WA, the Greens putting forward two fantastic candidates in Sophie Greer for the south ward of Vincent and Isabella Tripp for the Perth City Council. I look forward to that moment on 21 October when we elect Sophie to the south ward of Vincent as an openly Green candidate, running on the platform of action for the housing crisis, in the backyard of the WA housing minister. That will get a bit of movement and a bit of conversation in the WA parliament for sure. We will continue to use every legislative and campaign mechanism to get this done for people.</para>
<para>I also want to acknowledge tonight that as part of this negotiation with the government the Greens have succeeded, again, in bringing to their attention something that should have been plainly obvious to begin with—the idea that every home built under this government program should be built to a high-access standard. We have achieved that outcome, so every home built will be built with some basic disability access principles in place. It will have step-free paths of travel from the street to the entrance and to parking areas; wider internal doors and corridors; toilet entry on a ground-floor level; a bathroom that contains a hobless shower; reinforced walls around the toilet; shower supports; and grab rails so that people can navigate their spaces safely.</para>
<para>It seems strange that I would even have to step this out for a federal government, but, when the federal Labor Party brought this bill to the parliament, they had a commitment to accessible housing that had a nice little carve-out for them. It said they would build accessible homes 'where possible'—where possible! And the Greens said: 'Not good enough. If you're going to invest this public money, you will build universally accessible homes.' We have achieved that outcome for the community, and I am very proud of that. On that basis, I will be withdrawing my second reading amendment on sheet 1962, relating to accessible housing.</para>
<para>To all the housing campaigners that are listening to this debate tonight: thank you for your energy, your enthusiasm and your commitment. Together, we took on an intransigent, corporate owned government and extracted $3 billion and vital changes to the program, and we will continue until rents are frozen and affordable. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Sena</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>tor SHELDON () (): I will start by addressing some of the comments that Senator Reynolds made earlier, because I find it amazing that someone can come into this place and say that Labor has bad policies on affordable housing because we don't have enough houses, then go on to say the government won't meet the deadline on the number of houses that need to be built, and then say, 'I'm going to vote for no houses being built.' It is an extraordinary debating point, but it also goes to the heart of the DNA of those opposite, and I'm going to touch on that in my speech. They don't have alternatives about investing in housing, but they do have an alternative view when it comes to superannuation and housing, and I'll get to that point in a moment.</para>
<para>The Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related bills will deliver on the Albanese government's commitment to all Australians to take swift and decisive action on housing affordability. We find ourselves in this situation because of a decade of failed policy and outright inaction from those opposite. Now they come in here to try to stop our government getting on with building 30,000 social and affordable homes, but we shouldn't be surprised, because for a decade they did nothing on rising energy prices—well, they delivered the national energy price guarantee. For a decade they did nothing about the cost of living, while we've delivered a suite of cost-of-living measures. For a decade they did nothing about record low wages, while we've delivered the single biggest rise to the minimum wage in decades, which they opposed. Like these issues, the housing crisis has been driven by the inaction, incompetence and indifference of those opposite.</para>
<para>Since coming to office, we've shown that our government's legislative agenda is about delivering for Australians, which is exactly what we're doing by establishing the Housing Australia Future Fund. Labor is about delivering. The Liberals and Nations, put simply, are the 'no-alition'. There's nothing Mr Dutton and those opposite have seen that they don't want to say no to. Clearly, 'no' is their favourite word.</para>
<para>We will not forget that this legislation could have been passed months ago. We could have had had contracts signed, foundations being laid and homes being constructed. Instead, here we are in the Senate talking about it instead of acting, because of the long-running obstruction by those opposite. It's in their DNA to disregard the need for social and affordable housing. You only need to look at my home state of New South Wales, listen to Senator Reynolds and watch which way they'll vote on the opposite side. But in New South Wales, during their 12 long years in office, the Liberal-National government sold off 4,205 social housing properties across the state. That's $3.5 billion worth of social housing that the community desperately needs right now.</para>
<para>Instead, we're left in the current crisis due to the lack of investment and outright lack of care from those opposite. But let's look past the sheer hypocrisy of the National Party, who represents some of the poorest communities, as stated by the former deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce himself. He said: 'In the National Party, we've got the poorest seats. The richest people are represented by the Greens, then the Libs'. The same party then walk into the Senate chamber and vote against 30,000 homes for the most vulnerable Australians, their own constituents. It's pretty evident that the reason regional communities are suffering is that they've been represented for 103 years by people who vote against the interests of their own communities, and right now we are at crunch point.</para>
<para>Australians are struggling, and now we need to build more social and affordable houses. The Australian Council of Social Service Chief Executive Officer, Cassandra Goldie, said: 'The financial pressures associated with keeping a roof over your head are becoming far more widespread than we've seen in the past.' Those opposite support low pay. Their anti-worker, anti-union agenda has put us in this crisis, and they're obstructing us in our efforts to fix their mess. This is a crisis created by them, and they should hang their heads in shame.</para>
<para>These bills establish the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund. The fund will make annual disbursements of at least $500 million a year to finance the construction of new homes. In the first five years of the fund, that means the construction of 20,000 social homes, 4,000 of which will be reserved for women and children leaving domestic and family violence and older women on lower incomes who are at risk of homelessness. On top of those 20,000 social homes, it will also fund 10,000 affordable homes for frontline workers like police, allied health workers, nurses and cleaners—the people who are providing the most essential services in our community but increasingly cannot even afford to live in these communities.</para>
<para>So, combined, this bill will see 30,000 social and affordable homes built in the next five years. That's what those opposite will be voting against. Let's be very clear: that's 30,000 social and affordable homes over the next five years—homes for victims of domestic violence and homes for essential workers priced out of their own communities—and those opposite are going to vote against it.</para>
<para>The fund will also provide $200 million for the repair, maintenance and improvements of housing in remote Indigenous communities. Unlike those opposite, we don't seek to use these communities as a political football. They say they want action, and we're taking action for Indigenous communities. They talk about action. Here is your chance to turn around and vote for action. As always, just like the Indigenous communities you've abandoned, you've also abandoned social and affordable housing. We put our money where our mouth is, including with this bill today.</para>
<para>The bill also provides $100 million for crisis and transitional housing options for those leaving family and domestic violence. Again, it's remarkable the 'no-alition' is voting against that. There is also $30 million to build housing and fund special services for veterans experiencing homelessness or who are at risk of homelessness. So the 'no-alition' is voting against specialist services for veterans experiencing homelessness too. How low can you get—how out of touch and how disrespectful to the people in our community?</para>
<para>So, taken altogether, the measures in this bill represent a substantial yet targeted investment in housing for those who are most in need. It provides targeted support for essential workers, those experiencing domestic violence, veterans and remote Indigenous communities. Currently, more than 122,000 people are experiencing homelessness, including over 17,600 children younger than 12 years, a truly heartbreaking figure.</para>
<para>But these aren't just numbers on a page. They are real people: neighbours, sons and daughters, mums and dads, aunts and uncles, grandmas and grandpas. This fund will go a long way in supporting these families and ensuring that they have and maintain a safe and secure roof over their heads, because we know that ensuring people have a secure roof over their heads leads to greater outcomes. It allows people greater opportunities to study and learn, find and maintain work and provide for their families. It gives people a chance to build their lives in the middle class and to come into the middle class. These bills are about supporting people like former IT worker Lee, who became homeless after losing his job due to mental health problems, or former academic James, who had a relationship breakdown and was forced onto the streets due to the shortage of available homes. Our Housing Australia Future Fund is fundamentally about supporting struggling Australians and helping them into a safe and secure home and to get back on their feet.</para>
<para>Of course, these bills are just part of the Albanese government's broader housing reform agenda. There's the Regional First Home Buyer Guarantee, which, having been launched back in October, has already helped more than 1,600 people in regional Australia to get into their first homes. There's also the National Housing Accord with state and territory governments, local governments, institutional investors and the building sector, which aims to build one million homes over the five years from 2024. That is a remarkably ambitious target that requires the Commonwealth, states, territories and local government to work cohesively together. When you remember the antagonistic relationship the Morrison government had with state governments, it's clear this accord could only ever have been delivered by a federal Labor government.</para>
<para>The Minister for Housing is also working through a new National Housing and Homelessness plan, to begin from next year. I want to commend the minister for the announcement that the Albanese government is delivering a $67.5 million funding boost for homelessness services. Homelessness funding, like much of the funding in the Morrison government's last budget, was scheduled to end at the end of last financial year—to fall off a cliff. Under the Morrison government's budget, there was going to be a massive funding cut for homelessness services across the country during a housing crisis. I thank the minister for delivering on that funding. I particularly commend the Australian Services Union and their members and service providers for campaigning for that funding. Frankly, the amount of funding that the Morrison government's budget had scheduled to end at the end of this financial year is unbelievable. This isn't the only area where the Morrison government created a funding cliff where the Albanese Labor government has had to step in and ensure the continuation of funding rather than potentially losing vital services in the sector. It would appear that the depth of cuts they were planning to all sorts of essential services, including homelessness services, would have made even former Treasurer Joe Hockey blush. Unlike those opposite, we know that homelessness services and proper investment in housing supply are essential.</para>
<para>That brings me to one of the most underrated debacles the Morrison government inflicted upon the Australian people. I'm talking, of course, about the Morrison government's super for housing policy. Super for housing is a policy that is so utterly ridiculous that it was a shock to see the Leader of the Opposition recommit to that policy last year. This is the only idea that those opposite have to deal with the housing crisis. It's a laughably bad idea. You don't have to take my word for it at all. Former prime minister Malcolm Turnbull described super for housing as 'the craziest idea I've heard'. Former Liberal finance minister Mathias Cormann said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Increasing the amount of money going into real estate by facilitating access to super savings pre-retirement will not improve housing affordability. It would increase demand for housing and … would actually drive up house prices by more.</para></quote>
<para>You don't even need to listen to former Liberal leaders. You can listen to the current Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, Sussan Ley, who said in 2017:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Young people need their super for retirement, not to try to take pressure off an urban housing bubble …</para></quote>
<para>The Liberals and Nationals' policy idea is so absurd that many in their own party hate it. Even the deputy leader hates it. Even they know that super for housing isn't a policy about housing affordability. It's just another way for Senator Bragg and his mates in the extreme neoliberal wing of the Liberal Party to attack our super system.</para>
<para>While the opposition leader grandstands with grand ideas on housing affordability and reheats the Morrison government's ridiculous super for housing policy, because they hate the prospect of Australians being able to retire in a decent and comfortable manner, we on this side are investing billions in building 30,000 social and affordable homes over the next five years. While those opposite side with their real estate agent mates, those sitting on the top floors of tall buildings in capital cities, ensuring that their already outrageously large profit margins get even bigger, we on this side are investing in housing for those leaving family and domestic violence, veterans, essential workers and remote Indigenous communities. We on this side are working with all levels of government and are aiming to build one million homes in five years because, unlike those opposite, we aren't playing politics with the housing crisis; we're trying to fix it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023 and related bills. The coalition does not support these bills, and not for the reasons Senator Sheldon just outlined. We support social housing. We want to see more social housing. We want to see the federal and state governments do more to address this issue. We just don't believe that this fund is the way to deliver it. I dare say that it won't deliver the ambitious targets they are saying it will deliver.</para>
<para>This is deeply flawed legislation. It contains very little oversight on how the fund will be distributed and whether the funds will be allocated for their intended purpose and not for some other housing nirvana that the government dreams up. This will be funded by Commonwealth borrowing. It will cost the Commonwealth—and the taxpayer—approximately $400 million per annum in interest servicing costs on debt, based on the 10-year government bond rate of four per cent. Very simply, this is going to add to national debt.</para>
<para>This legislation lacks crucial details and, therefore, deserves proper scrutiny. When it comes to legislating what we've seen with this government is a lack of detail and, on scrutiny, the lack of detail is proving to be the standard operating procedure of this government. What will the impact be on inflation? That's a good question about this legislation and fund that's going to be established. What analysis has Treasury undertaken on the broader economic impacts? We know the answer to that is that this government has not done proper analysis of this. Treasury hasn't got figures on the broader economic impact on inflation. We don't know accurately, because this government hasn't done that. So we have a situation where the government wants to put the housing industry on steroids and Treasury has not done any modelling on the upward inflationary pressures that it may cause the broader economy in an economic environment where the Reserve Bank has had to raise interest rates 11 times since this government's election, to combat growing inflation, while this government wanders around setting inflation on fire with half-baked ideas, like this housing policy.</para>
<para>Where will the labour and materials come from to meet these aspirations? There's nothing in these bills to address those very serious issues. There's nothing that the government have even announced that they are doing to address these very serious issues.</para>
<para>In my state of Western Australia we've seen a recent spate of companies associated with the building and construction industry going under. Only last month another two building companies went into liquidation, joining a long list of companies that have collapsed in recent times. ASIC insolvency statistics show that more than 2,200 building companies collapsed during the 2022-23 fiscal year, and that was a 72 per cent increase on the previous 12-month period. Ironically, just today the <inline font-style="italic">West Australian</inline> reported that as many as 21,200 houses are under construction in WA in March 2023. They spoke to the customers of one particular builder, some who had signed contracts to build in 2020 and in 2021 and had still not received the keys to their brand-new home, such is the backlog of construction projects and the skills, labour and materials shortages. This is affecting not just Western Australia; this is happening right across the country.</para>
<para>One has only to look at the Western Australian government's own website, as I did, to see the difficulty anyone has in undertaking a home build. The Western Australian website for the Department of Mines, Industry Regulation and Safety says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The current, Australia-wide shortage of building materials and skilled trades is impacting the residential construction industry in Western Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Supply of building materials has been affected by the COVID-19 pandemic and increased building activity following the State and Federal stimulus grants. It has impacted everyone in the supply chain, from manufacturers and suppliers to contractors, subcontractors and home owners. There is also a genuine labour shortage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While this can be frustrating for all involved it's important to understand the current market and be aware of likely delays, outside of builders' control.</para></quote>
<para>Yet, while the industry can't even meet existing demand, the Labor-Greens alliance want to further supercharge the market with its outlandish ambitions when the current market cannot even meet the demand that's before it—the work that it already has in its pipeline. Instead those on the other side want to give false hope to people who are in desperate need of social or affordable housing. They're giving false hope.</para>
<para>That's what this government is trending to be. They're just all about putting up this mirage rather than actually delivering. They said they were going to increase wages. We know that real wages are going backwards. They talk about wages but don't actually mention the impact of inflation, which, of course, is the real wage figure. They're just putting up mirages all the way around. Tonight the <inline font-style="italic">AFR</inline> is reporting:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A dysfunctional planning system and huge labour shortage will cripple the Albanese government's target of 1.2 million new homes in the next five years …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nigel Satterley, the prominent West Australian developer, said only half of those homes would be finished—between 600,000 and 650,000, "if we're lucky"—because of a lack of workers to build them.</para></quote>
<para>We know that it's not bureaucrats or the government that's going to build houses; it's going to be workers. It's the industry that is building houses. It's not government that builds houses; it's the business sector, and the industry can only build a certain volume according to the skills, labour and materials that are on offer to them. The Housing Industry Association recently said they believe that these are the worst conditions that the construction industry has faced since the energy crisis in the mid-1970s. And what's this government doing about that? Nothing. Supercharging this issue is only going to create a bigger problem, and they're not addressing the fundamental issues of supply of labour, of supply of materials that can go into building homes. If they did that then maybe we'd actually solve some of the housing crisis situations that we have across this country.</para>
<para>Dimitri Burshtein in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> made these observations on 3 May 2023 in an article entitled 'Housing fund just another storm waiting to happen'. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In pursuing its housing plan, the government has announced it intends to establish the Housing Australia Future Fund. The HAFF would borrow $10 billion to give to the Future Fund to invest on its behalf. The investment returns on this $10 billion, to an annual limit of $500 million, would then be used to support new social and affordable housing. Whether federal investment in the provision of social and affordable housing is an appropriate policy or sufficient priority is a valid debate to be had. But pretending—</para></quote>
<para>this is the kicker—</para>
<quote><para class="block">that such a policy can be financed without cost or risk to the budget or taxpayers is an invitation to economic calamity. If public finance were as simple as government borrowing money to invest so that returns can be spent, why not borrow $10 trillion to invest and eliminate most taxes?</para></quote>
<para>We know that that's ridiculous. He goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The economic arithmetic behind the HAFF appears questionable from the start.</para></quote>
<para>I concur with those remarks. It isn't just that the economic maths are questionable: this government is actually playing a roulette game with this fund. It's hoping it fixes the problem, while hoping it doesn't create any further inflationary pressures.</para>
<para>Apart from this, incredibly, this bill also prescribes—and this goes to the point about the lack of transparency of this government—a-five year time frame for review, which, given what's at stake here, is wholly unsatisfactory. There's nothing like kicking the can of accountability down the road for someone else to worry about. It will be five years before we actually see whether or not this act is going to have its impact or whether it's indeed meeting its objectives. Unsurprisingly, stakeholders requested a much shorter period for review to ensure that the proposed grants from the fund are meeting their intended purpose. A shorter review period would actually be really sensible. It isn't actually that much to ask for. It's practical, and yet this government is not doing that.</para>
<para>Predictably, some economists have said this bill would do little in making inroads into the very real and serious issues of housing shortages. AMP chief economist, Shane Oliver, is quoted in the media as describing the government's housing fund plan as 'a drop in the ocean' in meeting the shortfall of housing demand. According to media reports, he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The main problem is shortfalls of materials and particular shortages of workers. Right now, we're having trouble trying to build something like 165,000 dwellings a year. The reality is we need at least 220,000 to keep up with the underlying demand. It's all pie in the sky if we don't have the means to build them.</para></quote>
<para>I concur with those comments also.</para>
<para>Other than blaming us for their sloppy bill and treating the Senate with disrespect, what is this government's underlying motive here with this bill? This bill provides great political insight into the progress, or lack of it, of this government. It was back in May that the Prime Minister was first threatening to use this bill as a weapon for a double dissolution election. Remember that? Having overplayed his hand at the time, the Prime Minister realised he had no political hand left to play. Now this government just needs a political win—any win is what they're after! It's evidently clear that the Prime Minister now knows that his political capital is disappearing before his eyes. His government is in trouble with the Voice referendum; they're in trouble with their radical industrial relations bill and their meddling in the aviation sector; and their competition review has been torpedoed even before it started because the Treasurer and Assistant Treasurer are at odds with each other over what's to be included. And that's beside rampant inflation and the higher cost-of-living pressures faced by everyday Australian families.</para>
<para>This government desperately needs a win, so they sold out and did a deal with the Greens to saddle Australia up with the utopian pie that is this bill. And they'll be held accountable for the progress, or, I would say, lack of progress, when it comes to delivering on this policy. They'll be held accountable on the number of homes that will be built next year. We'll measure it; we'll stand up here and measure how many homes you've actually built. Then the year after that, we'll also check and see how many—right up to the fifth year, when your final report comes in, we'll see how many homes you've actually built. We know that you're not going to meet your objectives, because you're not dealing with the fundamental issues; you're just putting some fairy floss out there. Guess what? It evaporates as soon as you put it in your mouth, and that's what Australians are going to find when they're looking for a home—when they're looking for somewhere to have a roof over their head. They'll see that you haven't delivered, because it's just evaporating. It's evaporating before their eyes because this government won't deliver it. You'll try to duck and weave, and to blame others. But, guess what? This is your bill, and it will be your act that you're delivering with the Greens, and you won't be able to blame anyone but yourselves when you don't deliver on this project.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023. At the outset, I want to commend the work that the member for Griffith has done over months and months on this bill in building pressure on the government. We call him the member for Griffith in this place, but he was referred to last week as 'that bloke Max from Queensland who has really got under the Prime Minister's skin'. I think that would be a fair summary of the campaign that's been run by him, his team, the Greens in this place and the thousands and thousands of Australians across this country who've knocked on doors, sent emails to their politicians, talked to their neighbours, talked to their friends and demanded more than what Labor first put on the table with this HAFF bill.</para>
<para>We should be clear about one thing: the bill that was first introduced by Labor was a shocker. It wasn't going to even touch the sides of the national housing crisis. The original plan from Labor was literally to borrow $10 billion and then invest it in everything other than housing. They were going to borrow $10 billion, whack it on the stock market and then roll the dice for the tens and tens of thousands of people in the queues for public housing—for the millions of Australians in housing crisis. They were going to roll the dice on the stock exchange and, if the stock exchange gave a positive return, then some of that might have been spent on housing. But if it gave a negative return, then not $1 would be spent on this national housing crisis. That was Labor's first draft of the HAFF bill, and of course we weren't going to support that—of course we weren't going to vote that through.</para>
<para>Nobody—except, maybe, the coalition—ever says about education expenditure that you should only invest in education if you borrow some money, whack it on the stock market and it gives a positive return. We don't fund public hospitals by gambling borrowed money on the stock market, so of course we shouldn't be dealing with a housing crisis that way. So we said no, and we said, with the support of millions of Australians, that there's a housing crisis and that you need to do better. Lift the game; give a guaranteed investment of serious money for public housing, and then address the rental crisis that's also gripping the country.</para>
<para>For months and months, we got told by Labor that the Prime Minister has no power to address rents, that the Prime Minister is powerless. He'd love to help but just doesn't have the constitutional power. This is the same Prime Minister who, at the end of last year, convened a national crisis meeting to cap energy prices. He had the power to convene a meeting of the National Cabinet to cap energy prices. We rushed in here, quite rightly, before Christmas to pass emergency legislation to cap energy prices. But suddenly, when it came to taking on the property industry and the developers, Prime Minister Albanese said: 'I have no power. I can't do it—can't touch it. It's all too hard. We have to leave it to the states and territories.' It's not good enough from the Prime Minister in the face of a national crisis to just put your hands up and say that you haven't got the power.</para>
<para>The pressure grew for more funding for public housing—not just for a gambled return on the stock market but for guaranteed funding. We're here today, as Greens, backing in this bill because that pressure has worked. It's confirmation that having the numbers in this place for the balance of power, combined with the support of the millions of Australians who are demanding that their government step up and sort out the housing crisis, works. It delivers on what the community needs. We have the backing of that grassroots movement, where we get out there, knock on doors and talk to people one-on-one about how there should be far more hope in politics and how the Prime Minister should actually get out and do stuff, not put his hands up and surrender to the property developers and the market. When you speak face-to-face with people who are doing it tough, you hear their demands. We tell them, 'Actually, politics can make a difference.'</para>
<para>And it has made a difference, because we've now secured $3 billion of upfront spending on public housing—$3 billion! We secured $2 billion just at the start of this financial year. Prime Minister Albanese said, 'Oh, that should be enough to get the Greens across the line.' We said: 'It's not enough. It doesn't address the scale of the crisis.' We said: 'There needs to be guaranteed funding every year. Don't gamble it on the stock market. There needs to be guaranteed funding every year and more funds for public housing. And what about the rental crisis?' And then, just in the last week, we've nailed that extra billion dollars for public housing—not in 2024 or 2025 or 2028, but an extra billion right now to build homes for people who can't afford the rent and to get people off those public waiting lists that people literally die on while waiting for a home. That is $3 billion in direct investment in social, public and affordable housing because we said no to a crap deal and no to the rubbish initial draft of the HAFF, and we said it together with thousands and thousands of Australians.</para>
<para>There's often a sense amongst political insiders that Labor should just be allowed to deliver their proposals unchanged as if they have some sort of unique mandate. They received just a tick over a third of the popular vote, but somehow Labor come in with their puffed-up arrogance and say that they're the only ones that can be trusted on progressive legislation, and then they deliver something like the HAFF Bill, which is a gamble on the stock market and not a serious attack on a national crisis. We're told by some of those political insiders that we should just pass whatever Labor has put on the table because it won't get any better and, if we don't accept their initial crappy offer, it will all be taken off the table. What rubbish that proved to be! Today, as we vote through this bill, having secured an extra $3 billion in upfront funding and having guaranteed at least $500 million every year going forward, taking the gamble on the stock market out of this bill, it proves that that political analysis of holding Labor to account and doing it with millions of Australians on your side actually works.</para>
<para>To the renters out there, who I'm sure are still deeply disappointed by a prime minister who says that he's powerless and by a bill that's not addressing the rental crisis, we say that we know it's still too hard, and we know that we shouldn't live in a country where unlimited rent increases are legal. We'll keep fighting. This is not a one-bill campaign. As long as the housing crisis continues, the Greens will continue this work. That bloke Max from Queensland will continue this work with the support of all my colleagues in this place and the other place and with the support of millions of Australians behind us. We've seen just how hard it is to drag Labor to the left to do the right, progressive thing—to put the money up to start addressing some of the serious social and environmental crises we have in this country. But we've seen that that pressure works, and we're committed to keeping that pressure up for renters too.</para>
<para>So we're here at what I think is a critical point in politics on this. It's interesting to hear the coalition's attack on this final package. The coalition's attack is that we shouldn't give any hope to people on public housing lists and that we shouldn't give any hope to renters because, if we put any money into the actual construction of public housing, we're somehow going to create inflationary pressures and supply constraints. They say that we shouldn't do anything because it's all too hard. 'Don't interfere with the market; let the market magically fix it for renters and people who don't have a home and are couch surfing and living in their car. Let the market decide!' It's one of the most cruel analyses that I've ever seen—to say to a family that's living in a car: 'We can't help you. Just let the market decide.' That's the coalition's solution: 'The dead hand of the market may at some point construct something in the future, and we're not going to lift a hand to build public housing or support affordable housing.' That is like political cruelty distilled by the coalition, utter base political cruelty. To let people in a country as wealthy as Australia go without a home because of your ideological commitment to the market or maybe because of cosy relationship with the property industry that you don't want to get in the way of is just plain cruel.</para>
<para>We live in one of the wealthiest countries on the planet and we have a per capita wealth now that is a multiple of what we had in the forties, fifties and sixties, when everyone in this country had a home. We had a federal government then that said, 'If the market is not building people's homes, we will.' They built public homes in suburbs in my hometown of Sydney. Whole suburbs were constructed by public funding in the forties, fifties and sixties to give people not just some shoebox in an apartment but homes that they still want to live in now, decent homes, secure homes. We did that when we had a fraction of the wealth that we do now.</para>
<para>We did that in large part through major investment from the Commonwealth government. But now we have had this ideological takeover by the Labor Party. They say that, without pressure from the Greens and the community, their only method of putting money into public housing is to gamble it through the stock market. What went wrong with Labor in the last 60 years? They went from direct investment and building public housing on a nationwide scale, where there was a commitment to giving everyone who needed it a home to their initial draft of the HAFF bill, where they would roll the money on the stock market. What went wrong? It's part of the ideological takeover in this place. There is a resistance to seeing the federal government act on a national crisis and invest in public assets for the public good, because that is the ultimate solution for housing.</para>
<para>Yes, let's get the bill passed. Let's see $3 billion freed up this year to build a surge of public and affordable housing but then let's commit together as a parliament not to hand over to some cruel market ideology people's homes and the security for their family but invest in public housing with public money, with the wealth that only this parliament can give to a key national crisis. And while we're building those homes, let's build that national consensus to put caps on rentals, to make it illegal to have unlimited rent increases and to build the spanners from both sides so that a decade from now we can look back on this moment and say, 'That is when politics changed. It was 2023 when we took away from that 20, 30 years of ideological attack on public housing and the public services. From 2023 we changed politics so that everyone in this country, every family, every mum, dad and kid had a safe home.'</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator C</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>AROL BROWN (—) (): Anyone listening to this debate here today would have finally realised exactly where the coalition stand on housing in Australia. This is a coalition that has never invested in any real, meaningful way in social housing—not interested, in social housing. If you were to listen to the contributions of the Greens political party here tonight you would realise that this is about the politics. This is about where they can get votes. That is what it is about because the last contribution we just heard talked about the Labor Party and about houses that were built in the forties, fifties and sixties. I grew up in social housing, or government housing as it was known in Tasmania, all my life and my mother lived there all her life. The Labor Party has never lost sight of the need to build social housing, to support affordable housing. We have also never lost sight of the need to support people in various forms of housing, including renters. Over the last few months, the Greens political party have been campaigning for votes, not for homes—not for houses.</para>
<para>In front of us here today—I'm proud to say it's finally here today, and to speak on the Housing Australia Future Fund—is a bill after a decade of inaction from those opposite. They really should hang their heads in shame. This is a bill and a whole raft of measures that are supported by stakeholder housing experts—those opposite know that—by community housing providers, Homelessness Australia, ACOSS and state and territory ministers, including the Tasmanian Liberal government. They support these initiatives.</para>
<para>What we have here is the single biggest investment in social and affordable housing in more than a decade. I'm so proud to be a part of the Albanese Labor government that is delivering these initiatives and this particular bill. I commend the minister, Julie Collins, the member for Franklin in my home state of Tasmania, for the work that she has put in to deliver this bill and also the other raft of initiatives that will deliver homes to vulnerable people. On the Labor side, we know that far too many Australians are struggling to access a safe and affordable place to call home. Secure, safe housing isn't the reality for so many.</para>
<para>Under the former government, as I've already indicated, the situation went from bad to worse. In my home state of Tasmania, there's been a 44.8 per cent increase in the number of people experiencing homelessness. I've never experienced homelessness, and I can only imagine how difficult it would be. But I was brought up in an area where, for various reasons, many of my neighbours and friends did experience homelessness. It was only the housing programs of the then Labor government that turned some of that around. But, as I said, there's been a 44.8 per cent increase in the number of people in Tasmania experiencing homelessness and, for some, housing isn't even an option that's accessible to them. With more than 100,000 people, including more than 2,300 Tasmanians, experiencing the rawest form of homelessness—sleeping rough, in tents, in cars or without any shelter at all—the job of tackling the housing crisis is urgent. Because of this bill, in the next five years 30,000 Australians and their families will have a place to call home. That's what the bill seeks to do. And what do we get from other side? We get a contribution talking about counting, 'We're going to do this and we're going to doing to do that.' There's no support for this bill—no support for a bill that will, in the next five years, deliver 30,000 Australians and their families are place to call home. No, not at all. With a commitment of 1,200 homes in each state and territory, many people all over the country will benefit from the fund. Because of this bill in front of us, at least 1,200 new homes will be built right where we need them in Tasmania. The fund will generate returns over the long term, which will provide annual disbursements to deliver a secure pipeline of funding for social and affordable housing in Australia, and that's very important. It's important that we have a secure pipeline of funding.</para>
<para>I thank those senators from the Labor side who have made thoughtful and consistent contributions to the debate on this bill. But it seems the not-so-subtle strategy of the coalition is to say no to everything. It's good to see that the Greens political party, after many months of playing politics with people's lives and building houses, have finally come to their senses and realised the government's plan all along was a policy that will address our housing crisis. The need for housing has been patently obvious, but instead of setting aside politics and focusing on the desperate need for housing across Australia, the Greens have strung it out. It has been a bit rich for the party that consistently called on the former government to increase the supply of housing to stand in the way of the Albanese Labor government's plan for more homes. The Greens political party accept the fact that we are in a housing crisis—a good start. They accept the fact that we need to build more housing—good. The Greens political party seems to have forgotten that it is a simple correlation between increase of the housing supply and the reduction of rent. When there is more supply in the market, there is more competition. It's pretty simple, really. This correlation between housing and supply isn't a complicated equation to understand, and after far too many months it seems the Greens political party have finally understood it. Put simply, the answer to rental stress at the national level is a sustained boost to the supply of homes to rent and a substantial investment in new and affordable homes. Does that make sense? Because it is sense.</para>
<para>The Housing Australia Future Fund is just one policy on the Albanese Labor government's agenda which has been put forward by Minister Julie Collins. We know it's an ambitious housing reform agenda, but it includes: a $3 billion new homes bonus; a $500 million housing support program; a new $2 billion social housing accelerator to deliver thousands of new social homes across Australia; a national housing accord, which includes federal funding to deliver 10,000 homes over five years from 2024, to be matched by up to another 10,000 by states and territories; an increase in the maximum rate of Commonwealth Rent Assistance by 15 per cent—the largest increase in 30 years; an additional $2 billion in financing for more social and affordable rental housing through the National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation; new incentives to boost supply of rental housing by changing arrangements for investments in build-to-rent accommodation; a $1.5 billion one-year extension of the National Housing and Homelessness Agreement with states and territories, including a $67.5 billion boost to homelessness funding over the next year; and a state and territory commitment to introducing a better deal for renters—a nationally consistent policy to require, among other things, genuine reasonable grounds for eviction. The fund will put an end to Australian housing programs that have made problems worse instead of better. The fund will change lives. The Greens political party were willing to hold homes for so many to ransom in the guise of perfection. But really, the record on policy and delivery has been tainted by the unnecessary games they play. Their record is one of pushing back on development in our cities and in many of our suburban areas. It was disappointing that the Greens political party chose politics over building homes and causing unnecessary delays with getting on with the job.</para>
<para>We all agree what needs to happen—building homes. But the coalition, I have heard through these contributions, are still planning to vote against, again, 30,000 new social and affordable homes. I think it is important to remind the coalition of those who are supportive of the Housing Australia Future Fund, the housing experts, you know, the people you used to listen to—community housing providers, housing ministers and, as I've said before, the Tasmanian Liberal Premier. The people working day in and day out on the frontline of the housing crisis, the people see the impact of dwindling housing supply they are the people that support this bill and the other initiatives that I have outlined. They all support the Housing Australia Future Fund, so the coalition are out there by themselves. But still they seem to think they are right.</para>
<para>You wonder: do they ever think that they should perhaps reflect when nobody is with them, when they are out on their own? Do they ever think that perhaps it is time to put the politics aside, perhaps to show the Australian community that this is not all about politics, that they have some policy position that they really want to back in, a principled position that they want to back in? Wouldn't a good principled policy position be about building 30,000 new homes? Wouldn't that be something to say to the Australian people—we supported a wonderful piece of policy that the Albanese government put up, that Minister Julie Collins put up, and that was about supporting the building of 30,000 new homes? But the coalition is a shadow of its former self. Their only position is to say no on every policy position that is brought to this chamber. I hope the Senate will support this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is late at night on a Tuesday. We are here. A lot of people are a bit tired, not a lot of energy in the room, but I am buzzing. I love a good love story. Who doesn't love a good love story? We have a beautiful moment here. The Greens and the Labor Party together again is a beautiful thing to see. I'm sure, just like the great relationships in history—you know, Donald and Ivanka, Sonny and Cher, David Lee Roth and the Van Halen brothers—nothing will break this up. You can hear the love tonight, the mutual respect between both these parties talking about how great it is to be working each other again—nothing will go wrong here.</para>
<para>But as we look at this, let's get down to what really is happening here. It seems the Greens may be a cheaper date than they really say. We heard the talking points of $3 billion being added to housing as part of the deal but, let's face it, Labor came to the table with $2 billion of that a long time ago. So let's get down to it. The deal is a billion bucks. That's it. That is what we have sold out for—a billion bucks. They were already doing $2 billion of that themselves, but we got $1 billion. Let's not tell anyone that is what we sold out for. We got three, that is a story and I don't want to disrupt that. That is the price we've got. That is where we're going here.</para>
<para>But what do we get for the rest of it? We've already heard one partner in the marriage talking about the rest being a crapshoot. The rest is what we get out of the future fund. What will we bet on? What will we get? How much money to go into this is guaranteed from that in the future? Don't get me wrong, we get the need; everybody is standing up and talking about those doing it rough, those not in beds tonight—those around the world. We understand that. There's a great power out there which is ready to build more houses: private enterprise. Take the reins off these guys and they will get that to you—</para>
<para>An honourable senator: Urgh!</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I heard an 'urgh'! I think that could almost be unparliamentary! Let's get down to the property developers. The Greens over there in that corner have done everything they possibly could there. There will be people in council meetings across Australia today who see a development application and say, 'No, you can't build that block, or those units, because there's a cross-eyed cockroach or a left-handed dandelion somewhere near it!' These are the things that go on.</para>
<para>The greatest threat to housing is supply, and I get that; that's why we have to build new homes. But the money here tonight won't build new homes. There will be a two-year planning period while they um and ah. This is what's going to go on, because of the people in that corner over there. The same people who are saying that we need lower rents, or that we need this or that, are the ones who are out there saying that we can't build it! That's the truth of the situation. When I was going through the bill, I was afraid that this new money—the $3 billion that they managed to get—might actually just go into replacing stuff which had already been DA approved to get some quick results. But tonight I saw that requirement for 100 per cent accessible buildings. This is all new DA stuff which will have to be planned and lodged. They'll have to do all this. Nothing here tonight will be built for years because of what has happened.</para>
<para>I'll say this: don't use property developers as a bad word. If you live in a housing development or you live in a block of units, it's the developers who got around and did it. Don't take the money from them, there's all that sort of stuff in that. But we need more of them to get out there and they need quicker approvals. The stories I'm hearing now are that getting approvals and setting aside the capital, and the holding costs of everything while still going through lodgement, sometimes costs more than the raw land itself. It's taking longer and doing it is longer. We've made it so hard to build houses that people aren't building houses. It isn't hard to understand. If something is in the right zone and is a compliant development then let's get these things through.</para>
<para>It is supply, and these people are not bad people. They'll use their money—they'll put their risk capital in—to build the housing that this nation needs if you get out of their way. But they can't, because you know better than everyone. You know better than the people over there and you know better than the people who are putting their money up to build these things. This funding has got through. You held out for a lot more and sold a lot cheaper, but nothing will happen because of the rules that your people on the ground put around development and around all of the things that need to happen.</para>
<para>Australia is not a country that lacks land; we've got a tonne of it for our population. If we look at Canada, it has a lot of land. And across the border from Canada is America, where you can get the same house, five minutes drive away, for half the price. Why? Because they allow development and because they allow free enterprise to get on with the job. The answers that we have at the federal level don't get down to the state; I get that, and I respect the Constitution and the separation of powers. I respect that we can do what we can here, and I think it's a good situation. What the government can do with the infrastructure grants and funding to cities and local governments—all these sorts of things—is to tie those grants. Imagine if we had a process where we could make any local or state government improve the housing supply by a percentage factor to qualify for these grants? Imagine if we said: 'If you want your road or drainage funding then increase your available housing supply. Increase the blocks and lots.' There's money out there to do it. If those who think the government is the answer to doing everything aren't drinking their bathwater then they're certainly sucking the washer. This is money going into something to replace something, because there's a sense that government has to be in the centre of everything. It doesn't. This is a lack of housing that has been caused by government.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Pratt</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I accept that, Senator Pratt. I'll take the interjection, Madam Acting Deputy President. Over there they're so smart about what they can do as a government. The more we get out of the way, the better it is. We have caused this market failure—and it is a market failure, because people are too scared to put up their money because of the fear of getting knocked back for rubbish reasons. Well done on getting the bill thing. I hope it's a long and happy relationship. I can hear from the comments already that it won't be. You're already taking the micky out of each other on this. Sell it as $3 billion when we know it's $1 billion. Put your social media up telling everyone you're fighting for rent controls, when nothing can be done at a federal level. What has happened is a joke. This will cause some good, I grant you that, but not for some time. Don't sell it as an answer to everything, because really it's an answer to very little.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Housing is a human right. It's the cornerstone of a decent life. It's a cornerstone of safety, especially for women and children. In a wealthy country like ours, all Australians should have a roof over their heads—a roof that doesn't leak and that provides a home that's warm in winter and cool in summer. Housing should not be viewed as a vehicle for wealth creation. The treatment of housing as an investment vehicle, with massive tax discounts to enable the accumulation of wealth for some, has fed investment demand for housing that has driven up the price of homes and taken them out of the reach of low- and middle-income Australians.</para>
<para>In this wealthy country, we now have a generation who cannot afford to break into home ownership unless they are wealthy or have access to the bank of their parents. This is a generation so unlike my own and that of so many others in this place. They are a generation who already carry enormous debts for their higher education and even for their vocational education. They experience years, if not decades, of insecure work and stalled wages. They also face the extraordinary costs and consequences of a climate crisis that my generation did not face. In this context, affordable housing is so important. This means we must make housing purchase and rent affordable. Both are critical to a good life in this country, and both depend on increasing the supply of housing, especially affordable public housing, and capping rents.</para>
<para>I'm proud that the Greens have fought hard for nine months for a better response to our housing crisis. We took that policy to the last election and we have fought hard for it ever since. Our pressure has worked. We've held out because the problem is huge, serious and growing very rapidly. Secondly, we've held out because we can afford it. We're a country that's looking at providing tax cuts to the very wealthy at a cost of $313 billion over the next decade. We're a country that think we can afford $368 billion on submarines. A country that can spend these kinds of sums over coming decades can solve the problem of a housing crisis.</para>
<para>We Greens have won a series of very important things. First of all, this week, we've won a new billion dollars of direct, immediate investment in public and community housing, to be spent this year. On top of that is the $2 billion in the Social Housing Accelerator fund, taking the total sum to $3 billion for social and affordable home building. That will create thousands of homes for low-income renters and people seeking to buy homes. We've pushed to put the plight of renters on the national agenda, looking for action. Labor had a chance to make unlimited rent increases illegal, and they chose not to do it. This is the challenge that still lies ahead of us—to cap rents and to make it possible to afford rents at a moment when wages are not increasing at the rate of inflation. We need solutions into the future, which we Greens intend to fight for for renters.</para>
<para>Let's take a look at the challenges in my own state of South Australia. Here's why we need to fight very hard for a long-term solution on housing, especially for renters. In the June quarter this year, Adelaide experienced the largest annual rise in CPI of all Australian cities. The increase in rents was a primary driver of that extraordinary inflation in the city of Adelaide. Housing SA, our state's public housing authority, has a waiting list of 17,000 people, 24 per cent of whom are deemed to be in urgent need of shelter. They are very vulnerable to homelessness, and a growing proportion of people in this very wealthy state in this wealthy country find themselves without a home.</para>
<para>Over the last 12 months in South Australia, rental prices have increased by 12.5 per cent in the regions of our state and 12.2 per cent in Adelaide. I'm talking about three-bedroom homes. They've increased by 10.6 per cent in regional South Australia and 10.8 per cent for a two-bedroom home in Adelaide. Not only have rental prices in the state been outstripping inflation; the wages people use to pay their rent have been going backwards in real terms, making rent even more expensive.</para>
<para>Over the past 12 months, availability of rental properties has emerged as a clear crisis in our city and across our state. The number of properties in South Australia has decreased in all areas, and overall there was a 35 per cent decrease in properties available in regional South Australia. By contrast, our population has grown by 7.8 per cent in roughly the same period, so most regions see decreasing availability of rental properties while the population grows. This creates enormous challenges for businesses across rural South Australia and our regions and big towns, where we cannot accommodate essential services and workers and therefore cannot provide the services that those places need.</para>
<para>For those on very low incomes, rents in South Australia are unaffordable, meaning they have to spend more than 30 per cent of household income to keep a roof over their heads. A single person looking to rent a two-bedroom unit would need to spend 32 per cent of the minimum wage, 43 per cent of the age pension or over 60 per cent of the JobSeeker payment on rent. A single parent with two children, reliant on JobSeeker and with family tax benefit payments would need to spend more than 40 per cent of their income for a three-bedroom home in all regional areas in South Australia. For so many families, it's a choice between food and shelter.</para>
<para>Of the 36,000 renter households in regional South Australia, some 71 per cent were in the bottom 40 per cent of income, meaning that many of these renters are in severe housing stress, spending more than 30 per cent of their income on their rent and their housing.</para>
<para>Over the past few decades, the quality and availability of public housing has been eroded by successive governments as housing policies increasingly skewed toward the commercial interests of developers and investors, both landlords and speculators, rather than the needs of the increasing number of Australians who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads. The result of this decades-long policy drift is over 122,000 homeless across Australia. Over 17,000 of them are children aged under 12 years. More and more people, including families, children and young people, are living in tents, cars, caravans, on the street or couch-surfing between friends and relatives. Homelessness disproportionately affects those who are most vulnerable. At the last census, almost 25,000 First Nations people were experiencing homelessness, which is 20 per cent of the homeless population. As the cost of living continues to increase, fuelled by the price-profit spiral, the fastest-growing group within the homeless population is women over the age of 55. In a 2021 study by La Trobe University, 23 per cent of young LGBTQIA+ people surveyed had experienced homelessness.</para>
<para>Solutions for our housing crisis demand action, particularly in relation to our most vulnerable citizens. The scale of the crisis for renters, for those who want to buy and for people without homes of any kind is huge. The proposals before us—the HAFF and the $3 billion on the table, resulting from pressure from the Greens—are not enough, but they are an important advance on what we had nine months ago. We need to fight on, and we will, for rent caps and for more public housing, but I point out that, without our efforts today—the work of Greens campaigners in cities and regions across our country and the actions within this parliament and place, pushing hard—we would not have the propositions that we have before us this evening. To all of those who said that we were letting the perfect be the enemy of the good and should have settled earlier, you can see how standing up to an inadequate offer and staying at the negotiating table has delivered better outcomes. It's better than crumbs off the table. They are not enough. We need much larger and more solid solutions, and that's what we now see.</para>
<para>We intend to work much harder and in an ongoing way for the rights and conditions that face renters. Renters are on the march for real representation and effective solutions for the housing crisis. Many of their parents and communities are very concerned about what they see for the renters, especially the young people around them. We need to fix this housing crisis, and renters' voices need to be heard for long-term solutions. Housing is a human right. It deserves a genuine fix. We say to renters that we will back their voices and find those solutions going forward until those renters have safe, affordable houses to call home. In this wealthy country, we need much larger and more systematic solutions to the crisis that we now live in. Changing the housing system in Australia isn't easy, but we must do it. Housing must be treated as an essential service, a basis on which to have a job, a basis on which to raise a family and a place where you can be safe. It's an essential building block of a decent society and a decent life, and it's not a financial asset. We intend to keep up the pressure to this end, and Australians deserve no less.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's no doubt that there's a housing and homelessness crisis in Australia and that Australians are suffering because of it. For those that are in secure rental accommodation but want to realise the dream of owning their own home, this is getting harder and harder. The median house price in Australia's capital cities is now close to $900,000. That means the deposit needed to get a mortgage is almost $200,000. I'd hate to be a young person trying to get into the housing market at this stage. In 1984, average house prices were 3.3 times average incomes. Today, they are a little over 10 times average incomes. If the growth in house prices had kept pace with the growth in income, we would be paying $300,000 for the average house and putting down a deposit of $60,000.</para>
<para>Life is tough for renters trying to own their own home, but it's even tougher for people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness. Figures from the most recent census, in 2021, showed that there were 123,000 people without a home on census night. Mission Australia's 2023 homelessness and stable housing impact report found that there has been a 103 per cent increase in Australians sleeping rough between 2020 and 2022. I'm embarrassed to acknowledge that, while there was a roughly five per cent increase in homelessness from the 2016 census to the 2021 census, the largest state or territory increase was 45 per cent, in my home state of Tasmania.</para>
<para>Some of the recent homelessness figures for Tasmania are shocking. In Tasmania, according to the latest housing dashboard released by Homes Tasmania, there are just shy of 4,500 individuals and families on the social housing waiting list, and the average waiting time for priority applicants is 80 weeks, far longer than when the Tasmanian Liberal government came to power in 2014. I just want to point out that that waiting list figure includes, as I just said, individuals and families. In other words, it's substantially more than 4,500, and it includes hundreds of children under the age of 18. As a longstanding advocate of the protection of children, the idea that children are without stable accommodation is deeply concerning to me. For about five years now, Hobart has had the distinction of being Australia's least affordable capital city for rental properties, according to the rental affordability index. While Hobart has seen a recent fall in median weekly rents, they are coming off a very high peak. The median weekly rent of houses and units combined is $489, which is way out of reach for low-income earners.</para>
<para>And it's not just the facts and figures that tell the story about the housing crisis. As a parliamentarian, I see anecdotal evidence of the urgency of this crisis. There's been a marked increase in the number of appeals to my office for people seeking help with housing, and I've heard stories about people on elective surgery waiting lists who are sleeping in their cars. Can you just imagine what living in a car does for not only your physical health but also your mental health, particularly for someone whose health is already at risk? In Hobart, we're seeing tent cities popping up across the town. If you're familiar with the Hobart winter, you'll understand how tough living in a tent, car or caravan is at this time of year. Far more than before, I see people begging on the street. Hobart City Mission estimated last year that around 245 Tasmanians were sleeping rough in the south of the state alone. Even homeless Tasmanians who are not sleeping rough still have to deal with the stress and anxiety of knowing that the roofs that are over their heads today may not be there tomorrow.</para>
<para>It's incredible that in the midst of this crisis the previous government had their heads planted firmly in the sand. Let's not forget that in 2019 the assistant minister for housing denied that there was a housing crisis and said he wanted to put a positive spin on housing and homelessness. Doesn't it speak volumes about the previous government's attitude to the housing crisis that they would expressly wish to put a spin on it rather than actually acknowledge the depth of the problem and take some action to solve it? For almost a decade, calls for action by community service organisations, homeless Australians and Australians under rental stress were falling on deaf ears.</para>
<para>As with so many issues the Liberals and Nationals have denied, neglected and failed to address, it has fallen to Labor to clean up their mess and finally take the action that needed to be taken. We went to the election promising real action on the housing and homelessness crisis that is gripping Australia, and that is exactly what we are doing. We put to the Australian people an ambitious agenda to build more social and affordable homes and help more Australians to own their own homes, and they gave us a mandate to deliver it. This legislation giving effect to the Housing Australia Future Fund is a key part of that agenda.</para>
<para>What we have before the chamber right now is a package of three bills: the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill 2023, the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council Bill 2023 and the Treasury Laws Amendment (Housing Measures No. 1) Bill 2023. The bills will establish the Housing Australia Future Fund and make consequential amendments to legislation in the Finance and Treasury portfolios to support the new fund. The housing council bill establishes the National Housing Supply and Affordability Council. This will be an independent statutory advisory body which will inform the government's approach to housing policy by delivering independent advice on housing supply and affordability.</para>
<para>The $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund will use annual disbursements to fund social and affordable housing and other acute housing needs. The fund will provide a source of funding to support increased social and affordable housing as well as funding other acute housing needs for remote Indigenous communities, women, children and veterans. We've had criticisms directed to us in this place and through the media that the Housing Australia Future Fund is insufficient to address the housing crisis, but it's worth putting a few things into perspective. This is the biggest single investment in housing in over a decade. Of the 30,000 homes we have committed to delivering over five years, 20,000 are social housing properties.</para>
<para>Another thing that's lost in the public debate is an appreciation that the Housing Australia Future Fund does not stand alone in addressing this crisis. Let's not forget that providing social housing in particular is primarily a state and territory responsibility. The Albanese Labor government is stepping in to help with this effort because we recognise that the scale of the problem is too great for the states and territories to deal with alone. This has been the case for some time, but the problem has become considerably worse because of almost a decade of inaction under the previous government. Yet they're still going to vote no to the bill.</para>
<para>The other important point that often gets lost in this debate is that the Housing Australia Future Fund is not the only action we are taking to address the housing and homelessness crisis—in fact, far from it. Let me remind my colleagues in the Senate of what we have done in this space already. We unlocked up to $575 million to help fund more social and affordable rental housing through the National Housing Finance and Investment Corporation. In this year's budget, an additional $2 billion in financing was announced to support more social and affordable rental housing, by increasing NHFIC's liability cap from $5.5 billion to $7.5 billion from 1 July 2023. Also in this year's budget, an extra $67.5 million has been provided to states and territories to help tackle homelessness as part of a $1.6 billion one-year extension of the National Housing and Homelessness Agreement. We provided incentives to increase the supply of rental housing by improving taxation arrangements for investments in build-to-rent accommodation, and we've expanded the Home Guarantee Scheme, which has already helped more than 50,000 Australians into homeownership. We've also delivered a new national housing accord, bringing together all levels of government, investors and the residential, building and construction sector in a shared ambition to build one million new well-located homes over five years from 2024.</para>
<para>We've invested $350 million to deliver an additional 10,000 affordable rental homes over five years from 2024 as part of the accord. In June, we announced an expansion of our commitment under the accord, the Social Housing Accelerator. This $2 billion commitment was delivered almost immediately to state and territory governments, creating thousands of homes for Australians on social-housing waiting lists. The states and territories will ensure that this additional investment in housing will work alongside better planning, zoning and land release. This demonstrates our commitment to working with state and territory governments to address housing affordability, supply and homelessness. We also announced recently that we will be adding a billion dollars to the National Housing Infrastructure Facility to make sure that we can get more homes on the ground, more quickly.</para>
<para>Altogether, the Albanese Labor government's investment in housing and homelessness in the last financial year alone has been $9.5 billion. That is a phenomenal effort, particularly if you compare it to the inaction and indifference shown by the previous Liberal-National government. The Minister for Housing and Homelessness, the member for Franklin, Julie Collins, ought to be congratulated for this effort. I know how incredibly hard she works and how motivated she is to give every Australian the security and dignity of a roof over their head. After all, Ms Collins was once a beneficiary of social housing, as was our Prime Minister, so they both understand the extraordinary life-changing difference that social and affordable housing can make.</para>
<para>I welcome the recent decision by the Greens to support the passage of these bills. While I would have liked to see them make this decision earlier, so we could start building affordable homes earlier, I guess it is a case of better late than never. I note that the Greens are still calling for rent controls, even though this demand is no longer linked to the passage of these bills. On the subject of rent controls, I would like to bring to the Greens' attention a recent study by the Centre for Equitable Housing, which is a think tank that advocates for all Australians to have secure, affordable housing. The study said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We find that first generation rent control, or a "rent freeze", would be a poor response to the real challenges facing Australia's housing system, almost certainly making the problem worse for those in real housing stress. Freezing rents has been shown to reduce supply at the lower end of the market, as investors shift to higher-yield property development and withdraw more affordable properties from the market altogether.</para></quote>
<para>The study goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the medium- to long-term, increasing social housing stock is critical to resolving rental unaffordability and insecurity.</para></quote>
<para>In a nutshell, the study is saying that rent controls do not work.</para>
<para>I welcome the Greens' decision to no longer make a measure that demonstrably does not work as a pre-condition of passing these bills. Having said that, it has been disappointing to hear such disingenuous debate over the months since the bills were originally introduced. One argument I've found especially disappointing is the description of future fund investment as gambling on the stock market. We've heard it again tonight from the nay-sayers on the other side. Any suggestion that this investment is a gamble is patently false. Australia's future funds are carefully managed and balanced portfolios of investments including private equity, cash and tangible assets. They have returned an average of nine per cent per year over the past decade. This type of balanced investment is similar to the approach taken by Australia's superannuation funds. Australia's future funds provide for consistent and reliable disbursements, and the claim that the money invested in them is being gambled is patently ridiculous.</para>
<para>From this fund we are firmly committed to delivering 30,000 houses over the first five years, including at least 1,200 in Tasmania, my home state. I remind all senators that the Housing Australia Future Fund is supported by the community housing sector. It's supported by the Housing Industry Association, Master Builders Australia, homelessness services, National Shelter, Homelessness Australia, the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Housing Association, the Community Housing Industry Association and the Australian Housing and Urban Research Institute. They all want to see these bills passed as a matter of priority. They want to see us get on with the job of delivering this housing. So let us get on with it. Let us pass these bills and get shovels in the ground, and hand over the keys of thousands of new houses to the Australians who so desperately need them. I commend the bills to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This debate has rolled on for hours. We've also seen the debate roll on in previous weeks and months. I'm not going to stand here and reiterate all of the issues, but we are once again in a situation where the Liberal Party don't want anything at all, the Greens party want absolutely everything, the Nationals want a left-handed dandelion, and we are standing here trying to deliver what is a very, very reasonable, desperately needed injection into the housing market.</para>
<para>When I visited Uniting Country SA in Port Pirie last year, they told me they were providing homeless people with sleeping bags and tents because there was no housing. And, just to be clear, that was before the election of a Labor government. That was while we had a Liberal-National government. I have heard from the South Australian Council of Social Services and various regional employers that the availability of affordable accommodation in our regions is one of the biggest barriers to attracting workers, therefore impacting our economic future. Again, just to be clear, this type of housing shortage does not occur overnight. This is not something that just miraculously occurred on 22 May last year. This is the result of year on year of neglect—absolutely disgraceful neglect.</para>
<para>That decade of inaction that we've seen from those opposite has resulted in significant challenges in our housing market in Australia. With them having turned a blind eye to devastating stories for so many years, it's only once they're in opposition that they jump up and down and start paying attention and saying that it's a problem. While they were in government, they didn't care and they didn't do anything. Unlike those opposite, I do believe that we should always offer people a hand up when they need it most. There are many on our side who have relied upon social and affordable housing in our lifetimes—and I am one of them. There are those of us who haven't known quite where our housing was going to come from next. Being uncertain and being in that situation where you didn't know what was going to happen next, that need for secure housing is the baseline for everything else. So listening to this debate is a disgrace. The care that is being shown now that has not been shown for the preceding 10 years is a disgrace.</para>
<para>I am delighted to stand here and support these bills, these bills that are going to fundamentally make a difference. Is a gambling? No. We have a range of this type of funding across government that has been running well for many years, thank you very much. All of the scaremongering and the hoo-ha is just a disgrace. This is just political grandstanding. We are standing here with a series of bills and a policy that are going to make a fundamental difference to housing in this country, and that is something we should all get behind. Try to put some of that political spin, and muck and bother, away and think about those people out there tonight who cannot find affordable housing—single parents, key workers, families who are struggling. This is, critically, about the good and the wellbeing of the people of Australia. I commend these bills to this chamber.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 21 : 59</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>