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  <session.header>
    <date>2023-09-06</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
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  <chamber.xscript>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 6 September 2023</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Digital Assets (Market Regulation) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="s1376" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Digital Assets (Market Regulation) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make some comments as a second reading debate speech in relation to this bill on digital assets. The reason that this bill has been introduced is that the government have put regulation of digital assets into the slow lane. The main point about having regulation in this area is really based on two things. The first thing is that we want there to be a system of no regulatory arbitrage. In other words, we actually want Australian consumers to be able to access products and receive appropriate levels of consumer protection regardless of the vehicle or the structure that they're using.</para>
<para>The reality of cryptocurrencies and blockchain based products is that they are unregulated, whereas we have a highly regulated financial market. Any person who watches a football game on television or some other business on TV will see wall-to-wall adverts for various cryptocurrencies, and this is all unregulated in this country. So if you decide to invest a lot of money into cryptocurrencies, you are doing so on the basis that there is no regulatory options available to ASIC or any other agency to protect you if things go bad.</para>
<para>The other point here, though, is of regulation, and I generally take a pretty strong position that more regulation is not a good thing. Our job here in Canberra is not to pile more and more new laws on the statute books. But in this case the lack of regulation is forcing investment offshore. Having spent a lot of time, for better or worse, on these issues in my time in federal parliament, people have said to me, 'Why are you so interested in these issues?' It's not about the interests of a personal investor. The value of this technology is that it can disrupt existing industries, it can improve the amount of products and services which are available to the people of Australia and it can do that at a lower price. Ultimately, our role here is not to prop up oligopolies; our role here is to try to have a proper market economy where new ideas can easily come into the market. Because, as we've seen with the debate about Qantas and Qatar, competition is a good thing, and the point of cryptography and Blockchain is it can disrupt markets. It can improve the options which are available to the Australian people. Therefore, the lack of regulation here is causing investment to go offshore.</para>
<para>The government, with Minister Stephen Jones in the driver's seat over there in the Treasury, has decided that this is not a priority. When Labor and Mr Jones came into this position of being the executive government they inherited a very detailed and quite carefully thought through platform on regulating digital assets, which was effectively that it was a policy of the Commonwealth to regulate digital asset gatekeepers. That is the key word here—gatekeepers. There would be a system where an organisation that is running a market or a brokerage, and which is offering tokens into the market for people to purchase or trade, would have to have a license. That license would have key personnel tests, capital requirements and the usual protections for consumers as part of those licensing obligations—because this is basically the wild west here. That is the policy that was inherited by this government. In March 2022 there was a Treasury consultation issued by the department, which was looking at how in fact the Commonwealth government could enact a licensing system for cryptocurrency markets whereby you would have a system of licensing gatekeepers. That consultation has already occurred—it happened in March 2022. We discovered that, upon coming to government, the new government has decided to ignore the dozens and dozens of submissions that were provided by industry experts, lawyers and consumer groups and the like who were trying to help shape the policy because they all agree that regulation is necessary to protect consumers and promote investment. But that consultation has been junked by the government. We have discovered in the hearings for this bill, and in the Senate estimates process earlier this year, that the government is soon to issue a new consultation paper on digital asset market licensing, which would be a replica or a near replica of what has already been done inside the Treasury department. So, effectively, on the basis of a commitment to have a consultation that already happened two years ago, in the coming months we will not see any serious regulation of this market in this parliament. That is the reality.</para>
<para>During the course of this parliament there has been the very unfortunate event of the FTX collapse, where people in Australia and across the world lost significant sums of money. One of the provisions of this bill is to segregate customer funds from the funds of the business operator, because what is alleged to have happened in the case of FTX is that there was a merging of funds of the customers and of the principals. There was an allegation that there was malfeasance and fraudulent behaviour happening. When this happened, Dr Chalmers and Mr Jones were asked by the newspapers: 'What are you going to do here? What are the remedies available to the Australian public who have been affected by this collapse?' Their answer was, 'Well, we can't do anything because we have no laws in place.' The corollary of this position is that any future collapses or market problems in this parliament are absolutely going to be on the heads of this government which has decided to lock Australia into the slowest possible lane. Now, the government would say—I am trying to be fair and reasonable here—'Well, maybe a bill isn't viable.' But the reality is the concept of regulating gatekeepers is not new. We have a very sophisticated, highly regulated financial sector. We have spent a lot of time in this parliament and through the Senate Economics Committee debating the quality of the enforcement of the financial regulation. Everyone would agree in this chamber that the country generally is not short of regulation in the proper financial sector or in the main financial sector but in this area, as I say, there is no regulation.</para>
<para>The point of this is that it would be very easy to pick up the concept of gatekeeper regulation and then also adopt the concept of how tokens can be defined and put into a regulatory system by looking at what is happening offshore, whether it is Hong Kong or Dubai or the UK or parts of the US or the European Commission. Australia is not Robinson Crusoe here. Australia will not be the first country to regulate digital assets down to the token level in some way, and the way to define the various types of tokens has been done before. So the government's solution here is to do a token mapping exercise, which is basically a long-running attempt to naval gaze and not do anything, but the reality is that this has been done before.</para>
<para>The other point I want to make here, which is quite pertinent to our ASIC inquiry and some of the other efforts that have been made in this parliament to improve law enforcement, is that ASIC has taken a lot of actions here where there have been quasi-crypto product in the market. When I say 'quasi-crypto' I make that distinction carefully because there is no regulation here, so for an organisation to call themselves a 'crypto business with a licence' is fraudulent; I mean, there is no such thing as a crypto licence. So ASIC is using other powers it has available to it to stop certain activities in the market. ASIC is doing the best it can in this area but this is not a good way for the country to run its policy. I mean, we should be having very clear laws that the regulator can enforce, and, until there are clear laws, I feel we are going to lose more and more investment and opportunities offshore.</para>
<para>During the hearings we were able to hear from some of the market participants. One of the major global players, Kraken exchange, told the Senate committee, 'I would suggest we are yet to see enough from the government as to the shape of potential legislation. That obviously carries risk for players in the market because it is uncertain.' 'It remains uncertain,' is what Mr Miller of Kraken said. Then Loretta Joseph, who is an advisor to the secretariat on digital assets in the Commonwealth said there was no political will to regulate crypto. Joni Pirovich, who is a leading digital assets lawyer, said that, apart from traditional finance and opportunities around CBDC and Saber coins, there has been a mass exodus of capital from Australia since around mid 2022. That is not coming back anytime soon unless we have a bespoke regulatory framework or clarity in how the existing regime applies.</para>
<para>So the whole point here is that this bill would put in place a framework of regulation of gatekeepers. It would ensure that key personnel tests, capital requirements and all the other obligations people would expect of a financial services business would be applicable to someone holding themselves out to be a crypto market or a brokerage. The bill also seeks to regulate Saber coins by ensuring there is appropriate backing when an organisation wants to issue a Saber coin. We've seen problems in the US with the Terra coin and other stablecoins which didn't have appropriate reserve capital behind them and therefore unravelled extremely quickly, to huge consumer detriment.</para>
<para>Another element of this bill is that it requires banks and financial institutions to make disclosures to the financial regulators about any intelligence they have about the use of foreign central-bank digital currencies. Central-bank digital currencies could be a great risk to our democracy. They could be, if operated by authoritarian regimes, a way to replace commercial banks. They could be a way that foreign governments may wish to surveil citizens, including foreign citizens. I'm very concerned that, particularly given the dynamics in the Pacific region, we could see a situation where, through the use of mobile telephones and through stablecoins, you could see a currency emerge from a foreign government and it take hold in the Pacific and become the de facto day-to-day currency, which would give foreign governments a huge amount of intelligence about what people are doing in their day-to-day lives, which would be an incursion of privacy that we would never accept in our country. So the bill also puts some protections around ensuring we have more information about the potential use of CBDCs, which could emerge in certain diasporas in Australia, and we need to know more about that.</para>
<para>Ultimately, I have introduced this bill because the government have put Australia into the slow lane on cryptocurrency and digital assets. This is hugely regrettable because it means that people will have fewer choices and higher prices, but it also means that Australia will be exposed to an unregulated market at least for this parliament and probably beyond. Now, if this was an issue that the unions or the big super funds were asking the government to move on, they would have moved on it yesterday. This is the government for vested interests, which only gets out of bed for the big super funds and the big unions because ultimately that is the reality of the government for vested interests.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In rising to speak on the Digital Assets (Market Regulation) Bill 2023, as the chair of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee, I do want to acknowledge the important role that private senators' bills play in this place. They do allow us to examine issues and work out the best way to address them. I'd like to thank Senator Bragg for providing the Senate and the economics committee the opportunity to look at the really important issue of digital assets. What we heard loud and clear in the inquiry is that industry does support regulation, so that's a good thing. But we also heard loud and clear that regulation needs to be fit for purpose, it needs to be aligned with the existing financial services regime and it needs to be developed in a consistent process with industry. The bill that is before the chamber today doesn't meet those tests, and the committee therefore recommended that the bill not pass. Again, we do appreciate the opportunity that bills like these generate for discussion.</para>
<para>The government is developing a fit-for-purpose model and it is doing it collaboratively with the support of industry. What we heard in the inquiry is that industry wants a careful, clear pathway and process forward. They want us to get this right. They don't want us to get it rushed. The government's token-mapping consultation process has been endorsed and supported by industry. The role of token-mapping is to correctly identify and define the suite of digital assets to be regulated and, importantly, to identify where more regulations are needed. It's a really important process, as we did hear during the inquiry on this bill. It's needed to avoid the sorts of problems that submitters did talk to us about with this bill with regard to confusing definitions and demarcations on what digital assets and digital products are in or out. The token mapping exercise is also about looking at what existing regulations are working well, and the Treasury process received just shy of a hundred submissions. Importantly, this is just the start of the reforms and consultation that industry is welcoming. Next, the government will explore opportunities to reform licensing and custody of crypto assets, especially those that fall outside our existing financial service regulation. But we shouldn't forget that digital assets are regulated in this country today. Our corporation, consumer and competition laws regulate large sections of the industry, and our regulators—ASIC, AUSTRAC and even the RBA—work every day to monitor and act where required.</para>
<para>While industry agree that more regulation is a good thing, this bill in its current form is really not what industry are seeking, as they told us in the inquiry. Critically, this particular approach fails to work with our existing regulations and the familiar way of doing things for financial services providers. We heard that the bill creates a new, complex system of licensing that works in competition with the Australian financial services licensing and corporations law. As new as the technology may be, digital assets should play with the same rule book as everybody else. We heard during the Senate Economics Committee inquiry that the bill lacks detail and does not provide the certainty that industry is looking for. The committee found that the approach that this bill takes to establish a new bespoke regulatory regime, as outlined by the deputy chair in his remarks, was not well supported. FinTech Australia submitted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…our members generally do not support a bespoke licensing regime separate to financial services licensing for crypto service providers.</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Custodial Services Association told the committee that digital assets regulation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…should look through the technology, and digital assets should be treated similarly to comparable, traditional financial products…</para></quote>
<para>They support incorporating digital assets into the existing Australian financial services licensing regime to achieve consistency in licensing outcomes. The Australian Financial Markets Association said their preferred mechanism for digital assets regulation is for digital assets to be explicitly included in the definition of 'financial product' such that the existing licensing framework would apply. The crypto exchange platform Swyftx told the committee:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…the existing financial services licensing regime can be appropriately modified to accommodate crypto assets.</para></quote>
<para>Similarly, Revolut Australia said that extending the provisions of the Corporations Act 2001, including the AFSL regime, to crypto products was 'logical'. Revolut Australia noted that the regulatory infrastructure already exists and that industry is already familiar with the role of ASIC in regulating financial services products.</para>
<para>We heard evidence from those who deal with digital assets every day that this bill is not the way to progress critical regulation and that they agree with the approach that the government is taking to get regulations right. The Financial Services Committee and the Digital Commerce Committee of the Law Council of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">…where possible and appropriate, digital asset service providers should be licensed under existing regulatory regimes, and if any new licensing regime is introduced, unnecessary duplication and uncertainty should be avoided…</para></quote>
<para>Ms Jaime Lumsden, a partner at Hamilton Locke, submitted to the committee:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Broadly, we believe that Treasury's current consultation process provides the most appropriate forum to receive industry feedback and develop appropriate regulations for the crypto asset opportunity.</para></quote>
<para>Witnesses told us across the inquiry that they support the approach government is taking. They talked to us about how welcome the engagement with industry is and that they think the government is listening. Again, what they really stressed is that we need to get it right, not get it rushed, and that we should learn from how regulation is being rolled out right now across the world. We need to look at our current regulations and see how they function, and we need to work together to identify where improvements are needed. This is the work that is underway.</para>
<para>We're not looking at how to regulate digital assets just for the sake of it. All the work the government is doing is to ensure that consumers are protected, to ensure investors have greater certainty and to support the industry in Australia to flourish. The government wants to ensure emerging risks are known and dealt with confidently. Confidence and certainty are what the sector spoke to us about over and over again in this inquiry. Confidence is what the industry needs. The benefit of digital assets will only continue to be felt across the economy as the government continues its consultation with industry towards a secure and certain regulatory path. With the growth of the sector, new skills and new high-value jobs will be welcomed across the economy.</para>
<para>To conclude, again, we welcome the contribution of Senator Bragg to this debate. Private senators' bills provide all of us in this place the opportunity to explore and canvass different ways of doing things. The committee found that the bill was not widely supported in the industry. We found that a bespoke model of regulation was not supported and we found that there was support for continuing to work with government.</para>
<para>The government is leading the work to regulate digital assets in Australia, and the digital assets sector is continuing to work with government. That's the process that we should support in this place to get the right outcome, not the rushed outcome. It's the process that I support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the outset, I note Senator Walsh's generous remarks with respect to the contribution that Senator Bragg's private senator's bill is making to the debate, and I associate myself with those comments. But can I ask, is the process being rushed? In March 2022—not 2023—Treasury put out a consultation paper in relation to this very issue. One and a half years later, Senator Bragg, to his credit, has been compelled to introduce this private senator's bill because the government is on the go-slow.</para>
<para>If there is one area of public policy where you cannot be effective and efficient when you're on the go-slow, it's fintech and regtech, because the market is moving so quickly. Every day that passes whilst the government is on the go-slow in this area is a day where Australia loses opportunity and where Australian consumers are exposed to unacceptable levels of risk. It's been 1½ years since that consultation paper was released by Treasury in March 2022. Did we get any timeline from Senator Walsh, as chair of the Senate Economics Legislation Committee, with respect to Assistant Treasurer Jones's progress in relation to this matter? Absolutely nothing. It's on the never-never.</para>
<para>As Senator Bragg said, rightly, if this matter concerned the big industry consumer funds or the trade union movement there'd be a guillotine on this debate and we'd have 25 minutes. We would have been given the bill last night, given 25 minutes to debate it and it would be in effect. That's the reality. On this regulation, this critical area of opportunity for Australian investors and entrepreneurs and the risk in relation to Australian consumers, the government is on the go-slow. I have no expectation that government is going to introduce its own bill in relation to this matter during this term of parliament, so the only thing we're left to do in the Senate is consider Senator Bragg's bill because he's doing the government's job in relation to this policy area, and he's doing a mighty fine job with this private member's bill. So that's what this chamber's faced with: nothing, the go-slow approach, consultation upon consultation, people being consulted to death, and platitudes, but no action or effective regulation—just a huge, yawning lacuna or gap in this policy area. What this chamber should do is sensibly consider the very constructive contribution made by Senator Bragg to this debate.</para>
<para>From my perspective, there are a number of points to make. Given there is a gaping hole in the regulatory framework, there is an urgent need for regulation to protect investors and consumers, and it is not good enough that the government has failed to act in this area and has no constructive or positive timetable to fill that gap. Every day that passes when we don't have a regulatory framework which investors can adhere to and on the basis of which investors can invest with certainty is a day when investors will go offshore, because our competitors in this area, as Senator Bragg has made clear, are not on the go slow in-this policy area. They're actually doing constructive things. They're providing the frameworks and opportunities. If I learned anything from serving on Senator Bragg's fintech and regtech select committee—and I learned many things serving on that committee with Senator Bragg—it was that there will be talented Australian entrepreneurs with skill sets in this space who will only stay in this country for a certain period but will then become so frustrated at the lack of action by government in these areas that they will simply move offshore. They will take their enterprises offshore, they will take that opportunity for other Australians offshore, and Australia will miss that opportunity.</para>
<para>The second point is the need to protect investors and consumers. Senator Bragg's bill provides a framework in that regard. I also know—and I think it's important that we all consider this—about the points which Senator Bragg made with respect to how these new technologies in the fintech and regtech space can actually have a positive impact in disrupting the market and providing other opportunities for consumers and investors to achieve positive outcomes, not going through the tried and true methods. That's a positive thing as we consider market power across the economy, so I also agree with that sentiment.</para>
<para>When you look at what's being proposed by Senator Bragg in this private senator's bill, you will see it's quite a sensible regime. The first point is with respect to licensing, especially for those digital asset gatekeepers. It is appropriate that each of those gatekeepers who Australian consumers and investors would be engaging with be regulated and have licences with conditions which are suitable for the industry which they are the gatekeepers of. The points which Senator Bragg makes in his private senator's bill—which I agree with—in relation to the sorts of conditions and obligations which licence holders should have are things one would usually see in this investment context. The first is minimum capital requirements to provide a buffer in downturn scenarios.</para>
<para>The second point is on segregation of customer funds to ensure those funds are not tied up with corporate funds in the event that a digital currency exchange or custody service declares bankruptcy. There is a need to avoid the commingling of investor funds with the company's own funds which are used for other purposes. That's an issue which, as we've seen, has posed risks to consumers in other contexts. Just as it posed risks to consumers in the Sterling Financial case, so too does it pose risks to people in this space.</para>
<para>The third point is on government standards to bring the industry up to par with other financial services and products, and that's clearly appropriate. Senators need to remember that just because there is not a bill dealing with this issue doesn't mean that these issues aren't arising now in the economy. At the moment, they're unregulated. It's not as if these things aren't occurring now. There is an absence of bespoke regulation, so these issues are occurring in the economy now. People are being exposed to risks because the governance standards are not up to scratch now, and that is because there are no bespoke standards for this industry.</para>
<para>The fourth point that Senator Bragg has made with respect to licence obligations and conditions is the need to have sensible disclosure requirements for both participants and government agencies in this regard to make sure consumers and investors have the information they need to make a reasonable decision as to whether to invest or not or whether to use a particular gatekeeper or not. There is also a need for record keeping and reporting requirements to ensure that, if there are concerns or issues, the consumers, investors and regulators have access to the relevant information that's required to resolve those issues. These are all sensible proposals with respect to licensing requirements.</para>
<para>Senator Bragg, in his private member's bill, then deals with the important point with respect to consumer protections. Again I say to the government members that every day they're in consultation—and we've had a year and a half of consultation; we've been consulted to death in relation to this matter—is a day that consumers aren't protected. It's an unacceptable delay and an unacceptable lack of focus from Assistant Minister Jones in relation to this matter. This bill would provide critical consumer protections that would have safeguarded consumers during recent notable exchange failures, including FTX, ACX.io, MyCryptoWallet and Blockchain Global Ltd. This bill would empower ASIC to monitor and enforce licensee requirements, and the bill would also provide for appropriate civil and criminal penalties to deter misconduct. Again, that is something that is extremely important in the context of this issue.</para>
<para>Lastly, the bill would also empower the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services with inquiry and reporting functions to ensure the appropriate implementation of the bill. I'm sure you would agree with me, Acting Deputy President Pratt—I don't think I'm being presumptuous in this regard—that that committee does extremely important work and acts in a very collegiate and positive matter in terms of discharging its functions, and I'm sure we would do exactly the same thing in the realm of this private member's bill. I should say, Acting Deputy President, that I very much enjoy working with you in relation to that committee and those issues, and I think we do make a very positive contribution in that regard. So, again, I applaud Senator Bragg for introducing that element into his private member's bill.</para>
<para>In conclusion, I think this place needs to reflect on the fact that, in the absence of this bill, there is a complete absence of bespoke regulation that is suitable for this industry at this time. There's a yawning gap, a lacuna and a hole in terms of the regulatory framework, both for investors, which would give them the certainty to invest in these opportunities, and for consumers, to protect consumers. You can keep consulting. You can consult the Australian business community and consumers within an inch of their life, but it's not achieving anything positive. The time to act was 12 months ago, not in 12 months time. We've already missed opportunities. Clearly, the government is not going to support this private member's bill, but, at the very least, the government needs to hear the message that their delay is unacceptable. The consultation needs to stop, and the action needs to start. It should have started on the day the assistant minister was given his portfolio obligations.</para>
<para>The opportunity is there. Every day that passes where we don't have the regulatory framework in place to take advantage of that opportunity is a day where opportunity is lost, and that opportunity is lost to international competitors that have built a regulatory framework. If they can do it in places like Singapore, why can't we do it here? What's the issue? Come on! We need to get on the bus and actually get this done. That's what we need to do. We need to be far more proactive in terms of opportunities in this space. Every single day that passes without the framework being in place, such as what has been proposed by Senator Bragg, is a day where Australian consumers are exposed to those financial disasters that Senator Bragg referred to, such as the FTX disaster. Every day is a day where they're not protected because we don't have the appropriate regulatory framework.</para>
<para>These points were certainly made by various witnesses who engaged in the consultation process. I would like to quote the RMIT Blockchain Innovation Hub Researchers. In their submission, submission 4, they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if Australia fails to adapt to and enable digital business models, these platforms will still be built—they will simply be built in other jurisdictions, or remain in dark parts of the economy, leaving consumers and investors exposed.</para></quote>
<para>Those aren't my words—those aren't Senator Scarr's words—and they're not Senator Bragg's words. Those are the words of the experts in the field, the RMIT Blockchain Innovation Hub Researchers, who know far more about this area of the market and policy than anyone else in this Senate chamber. In saying that, I note that Senator Bragg knows a hell of a lot more about this than I do. But these are the experts, and this is what they're telling us:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… if Australia fails to adapt to and enable digital business models, these platforms will still be built—</para></quote>
<para>So, it's still happening. The government's going slow in terms of developing a regulatory model, but it's still happening. Again:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… these platforms will still be built—they will simply be built in other jurisdictions—</para></quote>
<para>so Australia loses the opportunity altogether, and our investors lose the opportunity—</para>
<quote><para class="block">or remain in dark parts of the economy—</para></quote>
<para>which means consumers are exposed to risk. Those are the two elements of this bill where I think the arguments put forward by Senator Bragg are extraordinarily persuasive: Australia's economy being able to take advantage of the opportunities, on the one hand, and consumers being protected, on the other. If we fail to act—this is the end of the quote—we are 'leaving consumers and investors exposed.'</para>
<para>I'm very, very happy to have risen in support of Senator Bragg's private member's bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too want to give credit to Senator Bragg for bringing this very important piece of legislation forward and giving a kick along to the efforts towards appropriate regulation of cryptocurrency and digital assets in Australia. I've been fortunate enough to spend some time with people in the fledgling cryptocurrency and digital assets industry in this country. They're great Australians. They're pioneers in this field. They've done some really innovative work, globally, towards establishing these assets, which are becoming much more commonly used across the world.</para>
<para>I've also been proud to play a small effort over my time in the Senate in helping change some of the regulations to help get the regulations to catch up. I think it is very important that we continue this discussion. It's a bit of a shame, though, that what has been a bipartisan approach to this effort does seem to have fallen by the wayside since the election. As Senator Bragg outlined, the former government was developing a regulatory framework for digital assets. It was on track to come into force some time last year. Now, almost a year on from that date, we don't see any action from the new government. It would appear that the new government has tossed out all of that work that had been done with the industry, with the bureaucracy and with the regulatory authorities. There's no real cogent explanation of why they've done that apart from perhaps thinking that anything we, the Liberal-National coalition, had done was not worth it and that they need to put their own stamp on it. The victims of that political and partisan approach are the many Australians who use these assets, rely on them and are potentially put at risk by using them, and, of course, the broader industry, which now struggles to get investment in our country because we do not have an appropriate and world-standard regulatory structure.</para>
<para>As I mentioned, this has been a bipartisan effort to date. I got involved in this through one of the very first Senate inquiries I was involved in, which was a Senate inquiry into cryptocurrency. I must pay tribute to Senator Sam Dastyari. He pushed it at the time. He was chair of that committee. I think he was chair. He might not have been chair, actually. But he definitely acted like a chair! Sam would do that from time to time. He pushed it really hard and we worked together to get to the bottom of what was happening. At the time, hardly anyone had heard of bitcoin. I actually remember telling a staffer that I should go and buy some Bitcoin to see what it was like, and I'm kicking myself still that I never got around to doing it—I think it was about $400 at the time. Anyway, enough of my poor financial choices!</para>
<para>But Sam and I worked very closely together to find the issues involved, and I'm proud of that Senate committee report because it actually led to real change, which of course is not always the case. We identified that there were issues around the GST, in the way that was applied to people using cryptocurrencies to pay for goods and services. There were issues with the income tax system as well, especially when converting from a cryptocurrency back to a national currency. And to give then Treasurer Joe Hockey and the government their due, they duly considered these recommendations and made the changes. I think that within a year or two they had acted on our Senate inquiry recommendations and made those changes. I know that many in the then cryptocurrency industry were very thankful for that. It helped a lot for them in selling Australia as a place for investment in cryptocurrency, with a government that was forward leaning in developing a regulatory structure for digital financial services.</para>
<para>As I said, that has continued; that broader regulatory structure was in the design phases under the former government. I'm just asking—I'm humbly requesting here, and so is Senator Bragg—'Let's get on with it and do this now.' It's about time. From speaking to the industry, this is something I know they want: they want this kind of structure so that they can give confidence to consumers. It puts them on the same playing field that exists for non-digital assets and it will help them attract more consumers because they have a level of protection from government regulation. And, crucially, it will allow them to attract more capital, because if such regulatory structures exist in other countries and we don't have one then that's a major, major gap for us. So let's just get on with it. I'm confident that Senator Bragg and all of us on this side are willing to work with the government on this. I realise the government is unlikely to support Senator Bragg's bill but, hopefully, it will spur them on to bring their own bill forward which we can duly consider. As I said, I'm sure there'll be a cooperative approach from this side and all of the chamber to make sure that this can work.</para>
<para>One reason I'm a bit perplexed, though, about the go-slow on this is that since last year's election it has become even more important to establish such a regulatory structure. We have seen extremely high-profile and high-consequence failures of cryptocurrency businesses. Those were overseas, primarily; I'm sure many Australians, though, would have been affected by the collapse of SFX and the issues with firms like Binance and some so-called 'stablecoins', which have collapsed in value. Many Australians probably have lost thousands of dollars through these deficiencies. Obviously, that has spurred on a response in the US, primarily, to regulate the sector. It should also increase urgency in this country, because, as I said, even though those firm firms were not Australian—and, to my knowledge, I'm not sure if any Australian firms have been caught up with these big scandals—many Australian consumers do access these services from overseas. Obviously, there's now a heightened degree of caution in the investment community about digital assets and about investing in any particular assets which might have questionable backing.</para>
<para>That's why this bill is very important, and I give Senator Bragg credit here for the deep thinking he has given to this bill. He does go to great lengths to make sure that ASIC have the appropriate powers and oversight here, as they do with non-digital assets. There are specific provisions in this bill for minimal capital requirements, which would help to avoid—or at least lower the risk of—the situation we saw with SFX and others. There are requirements on digital asset companies to segregate customer funds so that they're not mixed up with other parts of the business. Obviously, it's important to have better governance, disclosure and record-keeping requirements in this bill. And, very importantly, this bill also has specific regulation of the so-called stablecoins. These are coins that are normally linked to the value of some other underlying assets—sometimes a national currency and/or a commodity price—but often, obviously, their stability is only as strong as their direct backing from that underlying asset. This bill would require those issuing stablecoins to hold in reserve the full amount of their liabilities with other authorised deposit-taking institutions in Australia. That would, of course, give consumers pretty much full confidence in the value of such stable coins, which no doubt will play a very important role in the digital marketplace because probably the greatest barrier to people holding digital assets is their still somewhat unstable value compared to other currencies. Our currency itself has been up and down quite a bit recently, but there are sometimes pretty wild swings in the value of cryptocurrencies.</para>
<para>People who don't want to face such a risk do have the option of investing in stable coins, but they themselves have proven to be often inadequate primarily I think because of a lack of regulation and requirements on the issuers of those stable coins. This bill will fix that and help establish confidence in stable coins, which would potentially attract a whole lot more consumers to this space.</para>
<para>I also think it's important to briefly touch on central bank digital currencies. There has been a lot of commentary about those in recent years. I myself am not convinced of the need for a central bank digital currency. I note that former Reserve Bank Governor Glenn Stevens also put some shade on whether or not there's really a reason for central banks to issue so-called digital currencies. We have to keep in mind that in effect we already have a digital currency so to speak. Most of the money that's created by the Reserve Bank is not done so via a printing press; it's done via creating account balances in the accredited dealers with the central bank. That's how our money supply works. It already is in effect in a digital form.</para>
<para>It's not really clear what a central bank digital currency would do. There's obviously potential to move to a blockchain, which is a different type of technology, but there's not really a lack of confidence in the account keeping or record keeping of our major deposit-taking institutions, either with their accounts at the central bank or those we hold ourselves, so it's not clear why we would need to move to a blockchain format. It's very different obviously in the cryptocurrency world where you're often dealing with people you do not know or have little understanding of their history. The blockchain has helped deal with those issues of trust and confidence in markets. It has helped build this marketplace by establishing this technology. We don't really need that in the established accounts that we have with people.</para>
<para>There is a concern out there about central bank digital currencies. If there is a blockchain or a ledger that is managed by a central authority or a government authority, do they then ultimately have access to all the transactions that occur on that ledger? Obviously there may be some ability to encrypt those transactions themselves, but that often raises the point that ultimately someone has the key. Is there someone who can decrypt these things? If it is a government official or a government agency, I think there are very legitimate questions about how much we as a society want governments to know, or potentially to know, every transaction that everybody does and to potentially in the future control or restrict those transactions.</para>
<para>We've already seen very high-profile incidents of people being debanked, especially in the United Kingdom, over their political views. They, admittedly, have not been at least substantially directed by government. It's more just big corporates acting outside of their remit. There is obviously the potential for governments in the future to use such massive power if they were to have it. There are massive amounts of information, and information is power. If they had information on all of our transactions, I worry what that would mean for our free and open society.</para>
<para>Noting that I believe this bill itself does not at all seek to establish or promote the use of central bank digital currencies, there is a section of this bill that would at least require the Reserve Bank to disclose to ASIC if it did hold any foreign central bank digital currencies in Australia. This is something that has already been established in the United States, and I think it's very sensible that such an approach be established here as well.</para>
<para>As I mentioned earlier, the bill would give ASIC more powers here to monitor and enforce licence requirements. This is something, as I mentioned earlier, the industry is desperately crying out for. They want to be licensed; they want to have accreditation in a government certification process. I think the lack of one is limiting the development of the cryptocurrency and digital assets sector in this country. So I think what's been put forward here is very sensible. I haven't heard any suggestion that we create a separate agency to do this. ASIC already do this work for the financial services sector. It would not add a significant amount of red tape or cost for ASIC to extend their regulatory oversight to the digital asset sector.</para>
<para>The bill also, I think for the first time, provides clear definitions of digital assets, digital investment exchanges and stablecoins. That's something that's very important, too, to cover the broader regulatory landscape. There's obviously sometimes a bit of a grey area between what digital assets are and what they are not.</para>
<para>I will finish where I started, which is by encouraging the government to take this up. I think Senator Bragg has done remarkable work as a private senator. To me, the bill here is something that could almost be adopted. Obviously, it would normally go through both chambers and through more committee work than has happened to date. But really there is no excuse now, given the work that Senator Bragg has done, for the government not to get on with this and to get Treasury, who definitely have been working on this, to bring forward a bill that takes up some of Senator Bragg's work. As I said before, I'm sure we'd be happy to cooperate on the details. There'll be lots of those to work through. So let's just get on with it. There has been a bipartisan approach over the past decade—a successful approach, I think—but we now risk losing some of those businesses, some of those innovative Australians at the forefront of technology in the digital asset space, unless we can resolve this and move forward. Again, I congratulate Senator Bragg. Let's get on with it. Let's work together, make this happen and support a great Australian industry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Bitcoin began its life in 2008, well over a decade ago. I'm sure the first time many of us heard about bitcoin we were a bit puzzled, a bit confused. I, like many, decided to take a deeper dive into it. I didn't buy any—I'll put that on the record! Sometimes I wish I had; sometimes I'm glad I didn't. The fact is, though, that it came into existence in 2008. For most of us, it came onto the radar around that time as well because it created a massive media splash, and a lot of people who are interested in the financial world did take a strong look at it. Whether or not they got involved in that particular crypto, they did say: 'This is very interesting. This is something where the genie has come out of the bottle and is never going to be put back in.'</para>
<para>Here we are, in 2023, looking at Senator Bragg's private senator's bill related to digital assets, the Digital Assets (Market Regulation) Bill 2023. I must say, it's clearly not before time. It's necessary that this parliament and Australia come to grips with this for a variety of reasons that I will go into later. I do, like my colleagues, wish to thank Senator Bragg for bringing this matter forward. This is something that's very important for this parliament to grapple with. It's important for the Australian people that we consider both the implications of digital assets and digital currencies and how Australia should move forward in a regulatory sense in dealing with asset classes such as these. I think it's fair to say—and I do not pretend to be an expert in this particular asset class—that there's both misunderstanding and a lack of understanding of cryptocurrencies and other digital asset classes. There are over 8,000 digital assets available for purchase, and only a small number of those are, in fact, currencies. Even then, to define them as a currency also begins to challenge some of our preconceptions and some of our understanding of what currencies and money actually are and what they will be into the future. That's also something that we as a society and as a parliament are going to have to grapple with.</para>
<para>In my own considerations of these kinds of issues, 2½ weeks ago I was in the small country town of Carnamah in Western Australia where we were talking about bank branch closures and the importance of physical cash—actual money—to local communities, particularly in regional Australia. And now today we are discussing the other end of the spectrum—the digital assets and cryptocurrency, which are increasingly becoming an important asset class and something which parliaments have to grapple with.</para>
<para>Many of us in this room may not understand the operation of smart contracts that run decentralised finance or the algorithms that manage the blockchains. However, we need to know that it is likely to be the way payments, finance, banking and asset transactions are carried out in the future. It is estimated that 25 per cent of all Australians already hold a cryptocurrency or a crypto asset, so it is something already impacting the lives of Australians. As my colleagues have said, this is not the time to kick the can down the road, hoping that someone else might understand it better at some time in the future. There's an opportunity for Australia to grasp in both hands, and we should grasp that opportunity as soon as possible and build Australia's digital future.</para>
<para>Senator Bragg talked about some of the opportunities, but he also talked about some of the risks—particularly the risks of other digital currencies coming to dominate the market which are not necessarily in hands favourable to Australia or that seek to utilise the information that underlines digital currencies in a way that is favourable to Australia's interests. Senator Bragg talked about the Pacific islands and the possibility of a digital currency operating in that kind of area and then growing to scale. It is something that we do need to deal with as soon as possible.</para>
<para>This bill seeks to establish regulations around the fundamentals of what will enable crypto assets and cryptocurrencies to function in a modern, international, digital economy. To enable this, regulations need to be built around the establishment of an Australian dollar stable coin to allow seamless digital Fiat transactions, digital exchanges to enable the transactions of digital assets, and regulations encompassing custodian service to hold these digital bearer assets. With an Australian dollar stable coin, digital assets, exchanges, custodians and regulations to protect investors and consumers, Australia will finally have the foundation from which it can build a competitive digital future.</para>
<para>Other countries are already in this race. There are over 130 countries representing 98 per cent of global GDP exploring central bank digital currencies right now. Australia was one of those, but that has been terminated under this Labor government. Central bank digital currencies do cause some concerns in some areas, and I share some of those concerns, but the fact is we are seeing a global push in this area, and if Australia is not at the forefront of looking at how those central bank digital currencies will operate and how they will come into the Australian market then we risk allowing things to occur with our financial system that we do not wish to happen. We don't want Australians to look overseas for digital assets that they require to operate their businesses in a financially effective way, because that could offer other risks to our economy and to the international geopolitical environment.</para>
<para>Nearly every G20 country has made progress and invested resources in central-bank digital currency projects. There has been US$100 billion invested by venture capitalists worldwide since 2017, not just developing cryptocurrencies but reimagining commerce on the global scale. The biggest investors are obviously in places like New York, London, Zurich, Hong Kong, Singapore, Seoul and San Francisco. Why? Because they're all major financial centres. Global banking centres can see that the future of commerce is going to be based significantly on blockchain driven solutions, and we need to be a part of it. We see it through institutional giants like BlackRock, Fidelity, Deutsche Bank, Citadel and Franklin Templeton, just to name a few who have been investing in this kind of infrastructure. Again, this is something that Australia needs to be a part of. When you can transact $1 or $1 million globally in less than 30 seconds with no exchange-rate charges, no rent fees, no three-day delays, it's no wonder that Australians, particularly those dealing with significant amounts of money, want to be a part of this. We cannot pretend this isn't happening. We cannot pretend that these systems are not in place, as much as they do concern some people.</para>
<para>Although countries with major financial centres are the largest developers, smart contract-driven decentralised finance and crypto assets are being adopted massively all around the world, particularly in the developing world. Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand and Pakistan are adopting this technology, often at a citizen based level, because they see in these kinds of assets a level of trust, certainty and the ability to defray risk that they don't have in their own countries' financial systems. So we're seeing that these systems, these developments of cryptocurrencies and crypto assets, are providing a level of certainty and trust that allows people to step outside the systems of countries that perhaps do not have the regulatory frameworks, certainty and trust that the Australian financial system has. This is also an opportunity for Australia to be a part of this movement, to offer the trust and certainty that we have in the Australian financial system to the world.</para>
<para>This is probably the first new significant asset class since the Dutch East India Company developed an equities exchange in 1601. It is probably the first brand-new class of assets since then. What stands in front of us now is this new asset class known as crypto assets. Unlike the equity exchanges of the 1600s, today's cryptocurrencies and crypto assets are driven by smart contracts and will be limited only by the boundaries of our creativity. We as Australians should seek to lead that creativity. This is not to say that we need to abandon everything that has brought us to the trustworthy economic structures that we have today—in fact, far from it. As I said when I started my contribution, 2½ weeks ago I was in a small country town in Western Australia, where the importance of physical cash was highlighted.</para>
<para>But as I stand here in this place now, we have to recognise this trend. We have to be able to walk and chew gum. We have to be able to embrace this new technology while protecting the trust and certainty in our economic system that is the basis at its heart of Australia's prosperity. So whilst we on this side recognise this is a private senator's bill, it is sadly and likely to be enacted into law. It is an important part of the conversation and hopefully it will be a spur to those opposite to actually advance this discussion more quickly, to actually put in place the building blocks—and they won't be the final building blocks; we understand that—of how Australia is going to be a part of this new set of assets, this new crypto asset, crypto currency world. It is coming; we can't stop it. We should be a part of it. In fact, we should be world leaders in this. We have a trusted economic structure. We have a trusted regulatory environment, and we can play a significant role in this for ourselves, importantly for our region and for our allies across the world—like minded countries with whom we are closest to. In doing so, we will ensure Australia's economic development into the future.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Modernisation) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>10</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6964" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Modernisation) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Adoption of Report</title>
            <page.no>10</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>10</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Statute Law Amendment (Prescribed Forms and Other Updates) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>11</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7042" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Statute Law Amendment (Prescribed Forms and Other Updates) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>11</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to state that the coalition will be supporting this bill. The bill makes minor amendments across 85 Commonwealth acts. These types of bills come before parliament from time to time. Indeed, the former coalition government introduced a very similar bill in 2021 which lapsed at the end of the 46th Parliament.</para>
<para>There are six schedules in this bill. Schedule 1 aims to reduce the number of provisions that require the use of forms that are prescribed by regulation. By way of example, one of the items in the schedule will see an amendment to the Health Insurance Act 1974 to remove the words 'prescribed form' and substitute the words 'approved form'. The amendments in schedule 1 amend provisions to replace the forms prescribed by regulation with other approaches such as empowering regulations to directly mandate the requirements themselves and empowering ministers and other senior decision-makers to approve forms via notifiable instruments, which is consistent with the view of the Attorney-General's Department that prescribed or approved forms should appear on the federal register of legislation. This is in keeping with modern drafting practices.</para>
<para>The main purpose of schedule 2 is to update language related to person with disability to focus on the person rather than the disability across numerous pieces of Commonwealth legislation. These updates do not change the meaning of 'relevant provisions'. The updates give effect to the recommendations made by Economic Justice Australia in its August 2022 research report: <inline font-style="italic">Handicapped; use of outdated terminology in social security law and social policy.</inline></para>
<para>Schedule 3 will amend Commonwealth acts that refer to Northern Territory acts to reflect changes the Northern Territory made to citing its acts. This again will change neither the purpose nor the intent of the legislation. Schedules 4 to 6 make amendments to remove technical errors across numerous pieces of legislation and release obsolete acts or spent and obsolete provisions of acts. As we know, from time to time drafting errors occur or obsolete provisions of acts do not get repealed when they are replaced, and provisions to clean up those errors are routine. The amendments in schedules 4 to 6 enhance readability, facilitate interpretation and administration and promote consistency across the Commonwealth statute book. The changes in this bill are minor and technical, do not impact the intent of any statute and will not change the meaning of the relevant legislation except to the extent they reduce the reliance on forms prescribed in legislation. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the kind of bill we all live for! The Statute Law Amendment (Prescribed Forms and Other Updates) Bill 2023 is why we spent so much collective effort to find ourselves in the Senate! It was to work our way through the Statute Law Amendment (Prescribed Forms and Other Updates) Bill 2023. This bill amends some 85 Commonwealth acts to enhance administration and promote consistency across the statute book. Schedule 1 changes references in 33 acts to require regulations to specify information required rather than referring to the form provided by the regulations. This is a sensible change which introduces a moderate but necessary amount of flexibility. Indeed, to quote the Attorney, in one of the more memorable phrases from a second reading speech:</para>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments will ensure well-targeted requirements will apply, taking into account the best modern practices available in the relevant circumstances. They will ensure there is still oversight of the information to be provided while enabling flexibility in updating and improving forms.</para></quote>
<para>The bill also makes changes to legislation, including the National Health and Medical Research Council Act 1992, to specify that publication of information is no longer required to be in a form prescribed in the regulations but will just be published on the website.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 updates language relating to disability in a number of acts. I've got to say this is the change that I think is perhaps most important in the bill, because it removes the current, offensive use of 'handicapped' and 'handicap' in the bill. Unfortunately, because it's still in the veterans space, it replaces it with the phrases 'incapacitated' and 'incapacity', and I think we all have an obligation in this place to improve that language. I know it's probably beyond the scope of this bill, because it requires some substantive changes within the veterans statute, but it's something we should put on the agenda to fix. After we do this and remove, quite appropriately, reference to 'handicapped' across the statute book—an important change—I think we then have an obligation to revisit some of the language in the veterans space. It's a matter my office will raise with the minister to seek to advance. I'm advised that those changes are a result of work from Economic Justice Australia and its really important August 2022 research report <inline font-style="italic">'Handicapped': use of outdated terminology in social security law and policy</inline>, and I commend the report to the Senate and to anyone who hasn't read it. It's important and useful work, and it was implemented not long after the report was delivered.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 updates references to certain NT acts based on changes in how those are referred to. Schedules 4 to 6 make various technical corrections and repeal some obsolete bills, including the Wool Privatisation Act, which I know the minister has been concerned remains on the statute books. You will be pleased to know that at the end of this it will be removed from the statute books.</para>
<para>I want to thank those, largely in the AG's Department, who have taken the time to identify and escalate these corrections and for making the laws clearer. I commenced this in a lighthearted way, but it must be bloody hard work. It must be genuinely hard work—not exactly glorious work but important work—to go through and tidy up the statute book, and the Greens support the bill and commend it to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank those who have spoken for their contributions to this debate, particularly Senator Shoebridge. I'm sure his thoughts and praise for the department will carry over to Senate estimates in a couple of months as well. I expect to see that in full flight.</para>
<para>The government recognises the importance of maintaining the integrity of the Commonwealth statute book. The Statute Law Amendment (Prescribed Forms and Other Updates) Bill 2023 will amend 85 Commonwealth acts to enhance administration and promote consistency across the statute book. The bill will introduce a number of provisions that require the use of forms to be prescribed by regulations and replace them with other approaches that are best suited to the context of the particular form; update language relating to persons with disability to focus on the person rather than the disability, which I think is, as Senator Shoebridge and others have said, a significant and important reform; update references in Commonwealth acts to Northern Territory acts to make sure these references are consistent with the way the Northern Territory now cites its acts; correct technical errors that have occurred in acts as a result of drafting and clerical mistakes; and repeal spent and obsolete provisions of acts. These ongoing improvements to legislation are important to ensure that the Commonwealth statute book remains up to date, accurate and user friendly. I commend the bill.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>12</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>12</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r7045" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>12</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will be supporting the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023. This is a four-schedule Treasury omnibus bill, and many of the changes in this bill continue the work of the former coalition government. However, support for the passage of this bill is by no means an endorsement of this government's economic plan, a plan that is clearly failing Australians. It is by no means an endorsement of a government that is refusing to take responsibility for high inflation, rising mortgage payments, rising prices at the check-out and rising energy bills, just to name a few. The challenges faced by Australians are not addressed in this bill.</para>
<para>The bill makes changes that are largely technical in their nature to credit facilities, financial advice regulation, clearing and settlement services and the First Home Super Saver Scheme. Schedule 1 introduces new rules that prohibit schemes designed to avoid the application of product intervention orders made under part 7.9A of the Corporations Act 2001 in relation to credit facilities. Schedule 2 changes limitations in the education requirements for new entrants into the financial advice profession and financial advisers who are registered tax agents, and it removes the education requirements for experienced financial advisers with 10 years experience and a clean record who have passed the financial advisers exam. Schedule 3 amends the Australian Securities and Investments Commission Act 2001, the Corporations Act 2001 and the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 to facilitate competition in the provision of clearing and settlement services for cash equities traded in Australia. Schedule 4 makes a number of technical changes to the Taxation Administration Act 1953 and the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 to support the operations of the First Home Super Saver Scheme so that it works better for first home buyers. On schedules 2 and 4, I'll make a few more detailed comments.</para>
<para>Australia has a strong financial services sector. It's one of the bedrocks of our economy, and we want it to remain that way. It's been remarkably strong over the past decade. In fact, it served us extremely well through the financial crisis. The coalition remains committed to ensuring that Australians have access to high-quality, affordable financial advice. It's why we welcome the changes made in schedule 2 of this bill. In government, we implemented a series of measures to improve consumer protections and to streamline and strengthen oversight of the financial advice sector, and we support a continuation of that approach. This part of the bill will help to make it easier for financial advisers with good records to remain eligible to provide personal advice. The expansion of personal advice was one of the key recommendations of Michelle Levy's Quality of Financial Advice Review, which the coalition supported in principle, and which has the wide support of the financial advice and financial services sectors.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, the government's response to the Levy review is a half-baked attempt at a solution which fails to address the major challenges to improve access to financial advice for Australians. While overdue, the government's stream 1 reforms are welcome—but the narrow acceptance of the medium-term agenda will leave Australians with less access to financial advice, and advisers working outside the superannuation system were left out in the cold. The response to the Levy review was a key opportunity to drive better retirement outcomes and productivity in the economy, but the government has shied away from making any genuine improvements. Narrowly implementing the Levy review risks undermining innovative investment and product design in the financial advice sector, and creates an unequal playing field between superannuation funds and the remainder of the financial services sector. The coalition is calling on the Albanese government to adopt all the recommendations of the Levy review and to work constructively with the coalition on its implementation. This is a vital deregulation measure that will deliver wins for consumers, as well as supporting innovation and investment in the financial services sector.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 of the bill also makes technical changes to the First Home Buyers Super Saver Scheme. This scheme was an initiative of the former coalition government and is helping Australians to boost their savings to buy their first home by allowing them to build a deposit inside their superannuation. For most people, the scheme could boost the savings of a first homebuyer by almost 30 per cent compared with savings through a standard savings account. This was just one measure of the former coalition government that was aimed at helping Australians to get into their first home. The coalition is absolutely committed to helping more Australians achieve the dream of owning their own home.</para>
<para>But, despite containing some positive measures, this bill does not address the No. 1 issue facing Australians, and that is the cost of living. The impact of inflation and rising interest rates is being felt by businesses and families across the community. Rising mortgages, rising prices at the check-out and rising energy bills are all eating away at already-tight household budgets. Australians are having to work more hours to make ends meet, they're having to dig into their savings to make ends meet and our core inflation is higher than for any G7 nation except the United Kingdom. Core inflation is still almost double the higher threshold of where inflation should be, at 5.8 per cent. Tomorrow we will see in the nation's account how poorly the economy is performing under this government. Economists are not ruling out a per capita recession and many economists are predicting that there will be further interest rate rises to come this year.</para>
<para>This is a tough time for Australians and this bill does nothing to address those problems. Despite this, the coalition will support the passage of this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to offer a few comments on schedule 4 of the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023, which makes administrative changes that enhance the ATO's powers to deal with applications for the first home savers scheme.</para>
<para>I'll start by stating very clearly that the changes proposed in this bill are sensible enough and that we certainly won't oppose those changes. But I do want to offer a few comments on the First Home Buyers Saver Scheme, to place on the record that this policy is just another demand-side measure that will actually push property prices up at the very same time that home ownership is decreasing in Australia. To quote Saul Eslake, 'Anything that allows people to spend more on housing than they otherwise would has one effect, and one effect only: people spend more money on housing than they otherwise would.' Mr Eslake is very right about that. Ultimately, this scheme ends up pushing house prices up and locking even more Australians out of the great Australian dream of owning their own home.</para>
<para>Of course, demographically speaking, the largest cohort of Australians who are being locked out of that great dream of owning their own home are young Australians. These are the very people who are facing extreme and growing rental stress, because rents are out of control in this country and are skyrocketing. That is why Labor should actually be stepping in and doing something about rents and enacting rent control so that unlimited rent rises can no longer occur. But, of course, Labor won't do that, because ultimately Labor is a party that backs in property speculators over and above people who are looking for a home for themselves and their families.</para>
<para>Ms Collins, Labor's housing minister, said the quiet thing out loud a few months ago in an interview on the <inline font-style="italic">7</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline><inline font-style="italic">30</inline> program when she said that Labor wants housing to be an asset and investment class in Australia. Talk about belling the cat! Housing being an asset and investment class is one of the major reasons we are in the mess we are right now with housing. Property prices are going through the roof, rents are going through the roof, and more and more Australians are in either a housing or rental crisis where they can't afford to pay their mortgages or they can't afford to pay skyrocketing rents. Of course, it's the property speculators who are winning here, because the Labor party is overseeing a system where you pay more tax on income that you earn by going to work than you do if you're already wealthy enough to speculate on property. That's the problem we've got. With negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount, there are massive tax breaks for people who speculate on property, and the people who pay for that are the ordinary taxpayers, many of whom are being priced out of the rental market.</para>
<para>Labor needs to get serious about addressing the housing crisis. They need to significantly increase the supply of public and social and affordable housing, and they need to do that to a greater degree than what they are proposing to do in their Housing Australia Future Fund, which is about taking money, investing it into the stock market through the future fund and hoping it makes enough of a profit to maybe build a few houses over the next few years. The first thing Labor needs to do is increase its ambition and actually do more to increase the supply of affordable housing in Australia.</para>
<para>Secondly and critically, Labor needs to do something for renters. One-third of Australians rent their homes, and Labor is abandoning these people to the whims of the market, and the market is putting up rents at record rates. That's what's going on here. More and more people are being priced out of their homes because landlords are taking the opportunity to continue to put up rents. Through the inquiry into the rental situation that this Senate established we heard story after story of double-digit rent increases—repeated double-digit rent increases. It's extremely difficult to be a renter in this country at the moment. It is clear that the Australian Labor Party have no capacity to understand how hard renters are doing it in this country at the moment, because if they did understand it they would be taking action. They would be bringing in rent controls so that repeated and unlimited rent increases are illegal. Renters need protection here, and the Labor party is not delivering it.</para>
<para>The only party arguing for renters is the Australian Greens, and we've been very clear what Labor's solutions should be—significantly increase your ambition on supply, build significantly more public and affordable housing in this country and enact rent controls so that unlimited rent rises are unlawful. Do those two things, and do them well and in a meaningful way, and that would be a significant government response to the massive social crisis that exists in this country at the moment. But that's not what we're getting from the Labor Party. Instead, we're getting a tax system that massively favours property speculators. We are getting a slash in funding for the NRAS program, which means that somewhere in the region of 24,000 families will lose their affordable rental homes over the next three years. Of course, when that happens they'll face eviction into the private rental market and potentially homelessness over the next three years.</para>
<para>We hear a lot about Mr Albanese's log cabin story. My advice to the Prime Minister is: stop it. Stop trying to con people into believing that you actually understand the challenges that they are facing in the housing and rental markets at the moment. If the Prime Minister genuinely understood the stress that people are under, particularly renters, he would be doing something about it, but he's not doing anything about it. His log cabin story is just another bit of spin, and it is not driving the government's response to the housing and rental crisis in any significant way. While Labor is still abjectly failing to respond to the housing and rental crisis, my suggestion to the Prime Minister is: put the log cabin story away because it just makes you look like a hypocrite. It just makes you look like you don't get it. It just makes you look like you're all spin and no substance.</para>
<para>Labor has got to get real here. If they want to get real, they need to understand the stresses that people are under, particularly renters. They need to walk a mile in some other people's shoes for once. One of the ways that they could do that is to actually have a read of the many thousands of submissions to the rental inquiry that this Senate established following a Greens motion and have a look at some of the heart-rending stories that we are hearing from renters—absolutely heart-rending.</para>
<para>The rental market is out of control in this country, and it's out of control in this country because Labor believes that housing is an asset and investment class. Do you know what housing actually is? It's a place for people to make a home, and having a home is a fundamental human right. Every Australian should have a home. We're a wealthy country, and our homelessness rates are a national disgrace. We can do much, much better than we currently do. The fact that we're not is a political choice, and it's a political choice of the Australian Labor Party. They need to increase their ambition on housing supply significantly from where they are at the moment. They need to step up and do something meaningful for renters and enact some rent controls so that unlimited rent rises become unlawful in Australia. That's what we need to see.</para>
<para>As I said, housing is a human right. Housing should never be seen as an asset and investment class. For the Minister for Housing to say that that's the way Labor views housing in Australia—that Labor wants housing to be an asset and investment class—is an admission that Labor doesn't understand that what housing is about is providing a place for people to make a home. People deserve a place to call home. Every Australian deserves a place to call home, and they deserve to have a place that they can call home without having to pay so much money in rents or mortgages that it places them into financial stress.</para>
<para>I also want to quickly touch on the actions of the Reserve Bank over the last few years, because they have contributed significantly to the housing crisis, which is one of the things that the first home savers scheme seeks to address. During the pandemic the RBA printed hundreds of billions of dollars of money; they gave that money to the banks at extremely favourable rates. The banks turned around and lent it out to their highest-margin products—which, of course, are mortgages—and, inevitably, house prices went through the roof during the pandemic. Then, having induced people to take out mortgages by saying that interest rates wouldn't rise until 2024, the RBA embarked on a series of rent rises—a record series of consecutive rent rises. What that means is that people are now under mortgage stress, particularly if they bought at the top of the market, having believed Dr Lowe's promise that interest rates wouldn't go up until 2024. We have people under mortgage stress, we have people under rental stress, and what is Labor's response to these things? A pathetically small commitment to increasing supply and effectively nothing for renters.</para>
<para>This is the last thing I'll say on this today: Labor does have a chance to step up and do the right thing, and the Greens stand ready to work with Labor to put in place a comprehensive response to increase supply and take the pressure off renters. I genuinely hope Labor party will accept that offer.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution on the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023. The purpose of this bill is to improve the integrity of consumer markets for credit products. It is also to remove barriers for financial advisers and, further, to support competition in the provision of clearing and settlement services for cash equities. I recall the time before I was in the parliament, when I would be listening to the radio as I drove from place to place, hearing debates on all sorts of issues, and I realised how educative it is sometimes to hear debates about matters that you think would have no impact on your life, and then suddenly you realise that what is going on in the parliament does impact your life. That is why today I want to frame my contribution in the context of everything that happens at the Australian Stock Exchange is not something that is a long distance away from Australians' financial reality. The exchange provides for the functioning of the economy and the functioning of the markets in a way that allows profits for companies that are carrying the investment of Australians' superannuation. I begin my contribution on what might be described as a rather dry bill by framing it in that context: this, potentially, has real, material impact on the lives of Australians if we do our work carefully and well here in the parliament.</para>
<para>What is proposed in schedule 3 of the bill is an amendment to the Corporations Act, the Competition and Consumer Act and the ASIC act to facilitate competitive outcomes in the provision of clearing and settlement services for the Australian financial markets. In the course of hearings of both the Economics Legislation Committee and the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services, of which I'm chair, we took considerable evidence about the impact of a lack of competition in this space and the importance of bringing forward the opportunity for the embedding of better processes to allow for the clearing and settlement of transactions in the Australian financial market. There are a number of amendments in this bill that will provide ASIC with powers to implement and enforce requirements for a monopoly provider of a clearing and settlement service to operate in a way that does achieve a competitive outcome, and also to ensure safe and effective competition in clearing and/or settlement should a competitor emerge.</para>
<para>As I said, the importance of superannuation financial markets to all Australians is something that we should never, ever lose sight of. The financial engagement that every Australian has through their superannuation and the superannuation companies that invest on their behalf is truly remarkable. The fiscal sustainability of our nation is actually built on the ability of workers to save parts of their income and grow that nest egg to support them well in their retirement. Against a demographic crunch taking place across the Western world, when we've seen a much higher taxation burden falling on an ever-shrinking working-age population, superannuation is going to be even more important in the coming years. I'll add that it's an incredible Labor legacy that would not otherwise exist. It was decried absolutely by representatives on the other side of this chamber, who saw no point in superannuation—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bragg</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the interjection from Senator Bragg, who has spent so much of his political life here trying to break down the superannuation sector and take away the security that Australians get not only from having dignity in retirement but in having a say in investments in our own country through the markets and in having access to insurance at a much-reduced rate. Despite all of those things and millions of Australians benefiting, Senator Bragg continues the Liberal-National coalition legacy of smashing the concept of superannuation. That's why it's really important that it's Labor that's leading this reform, and I look to colleagues in this chamber for support in what this bill seeks to achieve.</para>
<para>If we're going to get the best value for the investment of Australians' transactions through the stock exchange, that benefit is going to hinge on the efficiency and viability of the financial system. The Australian stock exchange plays an incredibly important, indeed a crucial, role for both business and the everyday investors across this country. According to a recent <inline font-style="italic">AFR</inline> article, $874 billion in super fund holdings are invested in the Australian stock exchange, with a projected 41 per cent share of ASX super fund ownership by 2030. Let's be clear: the ASX is truly the lifeblood of the Australian superannuation industry and intimately connected with the financial future of every Australian who is working in this country, has a superannuation balance and is relying on the proper working of the market in the most efficient way.</para>
<para>The fact we face, though, is that the system that was the envy of the world when it was introduced by the Australian stock exchange, which is known as the CHESS system, has been subject to a lot of work in terms of update, replacement and improvement. It's fair to say that there have been incredible failures in the process towards that end. The CHESS replacement program and a lack of success there, aligned with an exposure to the innovative powers of competition, means that the incentive structure of the current monopoly is just not working for Australians. We know that there have been considerable concerns expressed and that in recent times, under the leadership of Mr Joe Longo from ASIC, there has been some change implemented to reshape a committee to observe and understand what's going on with the CHESS replacement system. But the problems are multiple and they are manifesting themselves in ways that are of great concern to those Australians who do intimately engage with the exchange. People who are watching, including the Treasury, know that the CHESS replacement program is overbudget, overtime and underdelivered. This program to replace what was cutting-edge technology has been so mismanaged from the start, and by repeated attempts to improve governance, that it simply has not yet produced adequate results.</para>
<para>We are offering our exchange in competition with other exchanges around the world, and what we're seeing is that other nations around the world are seeing clearing and settlement times reduced to T+1 time frames, and they're doing that with cutting-edge technology. Australia, however, is still reliant on an expensive and antiquated system that just doesn't adequately reflect the sophistication of our economy and our workforce. Australia's ranking on the Global Financial Centres Index has fallen, with Sydney and Melbourne, previously ranked seventh and 18th respectively, now down to 13th and 31st. This is not something we should be proud of, in any shape or form, and it's not something we can allow to continue. It's fair to say that if Australia's financial system is not continuously striving for better services then the superannuation system can't adequately perform, and there is a material impact on the retirement outcomes of everyday Australians for every sticky bit of the system that is not working as efficiently and as productively as it could be.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 of this bill seeks to implement recommendations made by the Council of Financial Regulators to strengthen regulatory powers and facilitate competitive outcomes in the market for clearing and settlement of cash equities traded in Australia. To be clear, the Australian stock exchange is an entity that's unknown to many Australians, and perhaps people in this chamber and people who are listening to this debate today think of it as a piece of public infrastructure. The ASX is not a public infrastructure site. It's privately owned. It seeks to make a profit and it has a monopoly over the services of clearing and settlement.</para>
<para>The reforms that have been proposed in this bill will have significant benefits for businesses that compete with the ASX in other parts of the cash equities market, such as the financial market operators, or rely on the ASX's monopoly clearing and settlement services, such as clearing and settlement participants and share registries. For them, the practical reality is that a delay in being able to access these systems and a lack of transparency around fair prices for these services can increase their costs, and the lack of competition, which is something that was put to us in evidence over the course of our inquiry, is a factor in the stalling of innovation. The argument that's been put is that the monopoly is happy with the profit that it's making and is obfuscating the advance of innovation because it might not see it as being in its interests. That's been disputed, of course, by various leaders of the ASX over time, but nonetheless it is a conversation that is well and truly alive in the sector.</para>
<para>The reforms that are proposed in this piece of legislation will enable ASIC to write rules relating to the governance of clearing and settlement facilities, including rules related to board composition and user input to governance. This will have the additional benefit of allowing ASIC to make rules which apply to the governance of the ASX CHESS replacement project—the delay of which, I might add, has resulted in significant costs to the wider industry. If a competitor does emerge in the provision of cash equities clearing and settlement, ASIC will be able to ensure that that competitor and the competition it provides are safe and effective for the benefit of Australians and those who trade in the Australian stock exchange. For example, this piece of legislation would enable us to make rules with respect to the interoperability between competing clearing and settlement facilities. If a competitor does not emerge, rules will ensure competitive outcomes can still be achieved by allowing ASIC to make rules regarding the activities, conduct and governance of clearing and settlement facility licensees. This is intended to ensure that these services are provided on fair, reasonable, transparent and non-discriminatory terms.</para>
<para>Where clearing and settlement services are provided by an entity which enjoys a monopoly or a significant market power, this piece of legislation will, critically, create the opportunity for arbitration, which will be available to industry participants that rely on access to clearing and settlement services to resolve any disputes about those terms and conditions of access, including the issue of price. This is intended to be a final but efficient backstop when good-faith commercial negotiations break down. It has largely been modelled on national access regime part IIIA of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010, with a few changes embedded in this legislation to improve the efficiency of the arbitration process and to provide timely outcomes for parties.</para>
<para>What we're proposing in this legislation is just a part of the Albanese government's multifaceted approach to securing the financial system as a critical component of the Australian economy. I am absolutely certain that Australians were horrified by the PricewaterhouseCoopers con of the Australian taxation system, which still makes my blood boil and sharpens my mind to uncover every facet of that fraud. The truth is that PwC and its peers in the big four audit industry are crucial firms to establishing the credibility of a set of financial statements, to give confidence that the accounts are true and fair. Further, they provide an important role in alerting firms on their liquidity and solvency from the short to the long term. One needs only to look at the oligopolistic audit market that concentrates as the ASX 300 moves to the top 100 firms. Therefore, it is paramount that they perform this function appropriately and with integrity, but that is not what is occurring.</para>
<para>What is happening instead is instances of light-touch approaches; unproductive cosy relationships; rushed jobs; and firms that have a pyramid-scheme approach to their workforce, forcing their graduates to work long hours for low pay, luring them in with a distant shot at potentially one day making partner level. These things also impact on a market. It needs to be properly functioning, and I commend TLAB3 to this chamber. It deserves support.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I apologise for not calling you earlier, Senator Bragg. I was getting confused between my speakers list for this TLA bill and the next TLA bill. I will give you the call now.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No problem. Thank you very much. It was a real pleasure to be able to have that engagement with Senator O'Neill. We will be supporting this bill, but I will take the opportunity to make some remarks about the various schedules.</para>
<para>Financial advice is a service which should be widely available to Australians. I don't believe that it is in the best interest of Australians to receive financial advice only from superannuation funds. I believe that people should be able to access advice about their financial affairs from an unconflicted source. There have been major issues in this sector for many years which have been cleaned by both sides of government. We are now in a position where we have gone from 29,000 advisers just four years ago to 15,000 today, which has driven up the cost and reduced the accessibility of good, unconflicted financial advice.</para>
<para>To remedy this situation, the former government commissioned the Levy review, which is gathering dust over at the ministerial wing where Minister Jones—this is the second time this morning that I've had an opportunity to remind the Senate of the failure of Minister Jones to move on important financial sector issues—principally because this is not the agenda of the big unions or the big super funds, and these are the only stakeholder groups that the government seems to want to do any work for.</para>
<para>The problem with the government's economic policy is that all of its effort goes into feathering the nests of its favourite fellow travellers, and therefore the government has no time to develop policy for the rest of us. This is another example. The issue here is that the Levy review has given the country a pathway to get more accessibility to financial advice. That was commissioned by the very fine senator for Victoria Senator Hume. Of course, its recommendations to improve accessibility are based on stripping away deadweight costs. That is sitting on the minister's desk. We have seen no legislation to improve accessibility.</para>
<para>The problem here is that the government has allowed the securities regulator, ASIC, to triple the fees that individual financial advisers must pay ASIC as part of the supervisory levy. That has gone from $1,200 up to almost $3,500 per advisor. So at a time when you have got locked in regulatory costs, which the Levy review said should be swept away, you have a government allowing the regulator to triple the supervisory cost on individual financial planners.</para>
<para>Every day we see here in this chamber the executive government running cover for the hapless securities regulator, ASIC. Yesterday the Senate passed a motion to require transparency around the conduct of the chair Joe Longo. There are major governance issues inside the commission and there is a significant problem with the agency enforcing the laws. So ASIC fails to enforce the law and the Labor government allows the regulator to smash financial advisors with a $3,500 levy, which is only going to make it much harder for there to be affordable accessible financial advice.</para>
<para>Going back to my main thesis here about the government, which is that this is a government of vested interests, one of the things Mr Jones talked about when he belatedly released the government's response to the Levy review was that super funds will be able to give a certain form of advice before anyone else will be able to. This of course is further evidence that regulatory arbitrage is in the DNA of the Labor Party. They are always trying to find a leg-up for their fellow travellers.</para>
<para>This bill in particular though—and I welcome this element—introduces the concept that, if you are a financial advisor who has been giving advice for more than 10 years and has a clean record, you do not have to go back to university. This is for an advisor with a clean record and with 10 years of experience. The advisor still needs to pass the exam. I think that's a very sensible approach, because we don't want to see the supply of advisers reduce even more. So we welcome the government's movement on that front.</para>
<para>The bill also deals with competition in clearing. This has been a vexed issue for many a day. I have always thought it rather curious that there is a view that we should prop up a monopoly provider of clearing and settlement services. I think it's good that there will be better governance standards applied through these new proposed powers to clearing and settlement in Australia.</para>
<para>Everyone knows that the ASX had a major governance fail when it came to delivering the new CHESS. I don't believe that that's a vote of no confidence in the technology of cryptography or blockchain. I think it is a governance failure. Perhaps the regulators could have been watching more closely, but nevertheless this new proposed power does ensure that there are more safeguards for competition in clearing and settlement, which has happened in other jurisdictions. I think it's unreasonable for the ASX to expect that it will be shielded from competition for ever and ever, so I think that's a reasonable proposition.</para>
<para>Finally, this bill also makes some minor changes to the First Home Buyer Super Saver Scheme. This really goes to one of the big differences between Labor and the coalition parties. We believe that people should be able to prioritise home ownership. Home ownership should be a priority because if you're a retired renter, you're going to have a much harder retirement than you otherwise would. Access to a first home should be a priority for all of us. I agree with Senator McKim's statements before; I think it was Darryl Kerrigan who made the comment that the value of a house goes beyond any economic concept, and that is true. The fact that the Labor Party want to hermetically seal all superannuation money away from people who want to get access to a first home really shows that they always want to put their political allies above the interests of the community. There's a very good case for people to be able to use their own money to access a first home, particularly for millennials and generation Zs who are struggling to get access to a first home.</para>
<para>No-one is saying that this is a silver bullet. Supply issues are of course essential here and need to be addressed by the Commonwealth government. The HAFF won't do anything to assist that. I think this is a great failure of the Labor government on housing. The fact that they won't entertain the superannuation angle and that the HAFF has been such a disaster is one of the biggest problems this government has created for itself. But, obviously, we welcome the fact that they're trying to make these schemes a bit easier for people. For the record, the Labor Party has always opposed our efforts to try to relax some of the very rigid rules that exist around superannuation. It's very clear to me why: it comes back to this point about wanting to support the people who have put them into parliament, who have been on their preselections and who make donations to their campaigns. It's very clear—you can see it for what it is: they will always put the interests of the super funds above the interests of people. They of course dress it up in other rhetoric, but that's the reality of the situation.</para>
<para>I think that over the next 10 years the Australian people will see super for what it is, and I think they'll be open to much more flexibility—particularly around opening it up for first home ownership. I also think that people will look very closely at whether it's a good idea to pay an enormous amount of interest to a bank and then pull their super out when they get to 60 to pay off their mortgage. I think that's going to be a new fault line in Australian politics: we will always try to put people before institutions. Therefore, naturally, we'll look for opportunities to ensure that people's own money can be used to support their objectives to get access to a first home, and also to suit their general financial objectives—which may be to have a lower mortgage. If we're going to have persistently high interest rates because of the Labor Party's inability to get a handle on inflation, then these are going to be some of the most important policy debates we will have in the next little while.</para>
<para>I don't wish to detain the Senate any longer, or waste any more time. We will support this bill, but I'm grateful for the opportunity to make some comments about it today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to have this opportunity to rise and speak today on the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023. I specifically want to speak about schedule 4, which is to do with the intersection of tax policy and housing. That's because we're in a housing crisis.</para>
<para>We are in a housing crisis and a rental crisis here in Australia, so we would hope that if there were changes to legislation being made that these measures would be carefully targeted to address the housing crisis. Fundamentally, the core of our housing crisis is for people who want to buy a home to live in or for people who want to rent a home. Houses cost too much—they're too expensive. What we need to do is to reduce the cost of housing for those people.</para>
<para>The people who are celebrating the increase in the cost of housing and the increase in the cost of rents are property investors who are making a motsa out of housing at the moment, yet we have increasing inequality. While property investors are saying, 'Hurray' because they can see their profits going up, because they can see they are making more money out the housing they have invested in, we have people who have can't afford to buy a house, who can't afford to rent a house, who are spending a massive amount of their income on rental. These are the key problems we need to be addressing.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 makes administrative changes to enhance the ATO's powers to deal with applications for the first home saver scheme. They are sensible enough changes and the Greens aren't going to be opposing them. But the critical issue is they are not going to make life easier for people who are trying to buy their first home. Saul Eslake captured the problem with schemes like the first home saver scheme. He said anything that allows people to spend more on housing than they otherwise would as one effect and one effect only—people spend more money on housing than they otherwise would. Essentially, measures like this, which put more money in the hands of first homebuyers, mean that the price of those first homes goes up. It is what the market will bear.</para>
<para>I've just been chairing our inquiry into the worsening rental crisis. It was very illuminating to hear from the Real Estate Institute as to why they are encouraging landlords to put up the price of rent. They said, 'It is our duty to recommend to our landlords that the price of rents go up. We want our landlords to maximise the amount of money they can make out of their investment.' And that is exactly the same when you're talking about buying houses. Of course the people who are selling want to maximise the amount of money that they can get out of selling that property. If there is more money in the hands of people who are buying those houses, particularly if they are competing against investors who are cashed up, who have tax incentives to support them, it means that the price of that house is going to go up, so nobody wins. The first homebuyers, all they end up with is a much bigger mortgage and that can be a real burden. They can find great difficulties in actually meeting the costs of that mortgage. They are competing with investors who are happy to spend that money because they know that they can rent it out and can, in this current environment of very short supply, completely rack up the rents, send the rents skyrocketing stratospherically and people are going to have to pay.</para>
<para>I mean, it is very clear that, if we're going to be amending our tax laws, there are things that we should be doing if we're serious about actually trying to reduce the cost of housing, whether it is buying a house or whether it is renting a house. The first thing we need to do is increase the supply of social, public and affordable housing. We then need rent controls and we need to actually reduce the tax incentives for investors that just encourage them to treat housing as a commodity rather than as a human right. The fundamental difference between the Greens and the other parties who are in here is that we recognise that housing is a human right; it cannot be just treated as a commodity. We cannot have a situation where you just have rents going up, where you have the cost of housing going up and people are left homeless. It is having a massive impact on our society today.</para>
<para>Let me go through in some detail about what needs to happen. I mean, it is very clear the measures that could happen, that this government could introduce, that the previous government could have introduced but are not because of pressure from those property investors, the property developers. That is who is dictating our housing policy here in Australia. But if you're actually planning housing to serve the interests of ordinary Australians, to make sure that housing is affordable and remains affordable, there are those three things we need to be doing. Let me go through them in order.</para>
<para>Firstly, increase supply of public, social and affordable housing. When we hear about the need to increase supply, this government and the previous government just talk generally about 'Let's just build. Let's increase supply. Let's set the private property developers to build more houses. The government's getting a million houses built and now there are incentives to get 1.2 million houses built.' They don't talk about those houses needing to be affordable. It's just whatever the property developers want to build. So you then have a lot of money being put into building really high-end apartments and, if they don't get filled for a while, that doesn't matter, because you've got tax concessions so that you can write off any losses that you make. Essentially, it's a really inefficient way of building supply.</para>
<para>What we need to do, and where we have failed over the last two decades, is to invest in and build supply of public, social and affordable housing that is going to provide housing for people who just cannot compete in that highly overheated, overblown property market—the people who at the moment are spending 70 or even 80 per cent of their income on rent. Here in my office this week, I met with a woman who is spending 83 per cent of her disability support pension on housing, on her rent—83 per cent. Yes, that means that she hasn't got money left over for food. Food has become a discretionary item. She hasn't got money for her medical appointments or for medication.</para>
<para>So we need to have that investment in supply so that there is housing for people on low incomes that doesn't just rely upon the whim of the market to provide something that they can afford. We used to have that in Australia. We used to have an adequate supply of public and social housing, and we don't anymore. That's a fundamental reason why we are in a crisis at the moment: because governments of both persuasions, both state and federal, have not invested in public, social and affordable housing over the last two decades.</para>
<para>So we need to actually tackle the scale of the problem when it comes to that investment in public, social and affordable housing, and the half a billion dollars from the Housing Affordability Future Fund just doesn't cut the mustard. It does not go to the scale of the problem. The government's own advice is that in order to get rid of the waiting lists for public and social housing, which currently sit at 650,000 people, we should be investing $15 billion a year in public and social housing. So half a billion is just not going to touch the sides. That's the sort of scale of investment that we should be making, and we can afford to do it. At the same time that we're spending $368 billion on AUKUS nuclear powered submarines and proposing over $30 billion a year in tax cuts to the wealthiest in our society, the government is saying: 'Oh, no, no, no. We can only afford to spend half a billion dollars on public and social housing.'</para>
<para>So we need to get serious about investing in public and affordable housing and increasing that supply. Then you would have people who would actually have somewhere to live. That in itself would bring down rents. That in itself would mean that people who are renting would be able to save money and afford to buy their first home. But at the moment, if you're a young person in your 20s, your 30s or even your 40s on an average income, the chances of you being able to buy a home, even if you have the First Home Super Saver Scheme, is just a complete fantasy. No-one can see their way through to that. They just cannot see their way through to being able to do that. So actually dealing with supply is fundamental if we are going to reduce the cost of housing and enable more people to buy their first homes.</para>
<para>The second thing we need to be doing is not just saying, 'Let the market rip in terms of what they can charge for rents.' Unlimited rent increases should be illegal. We need to have rent controls, particularly whilst we have that massive shortage of supply. Just as the Real Estate Institute have told us in the rental inquiry, it is whatever the market will bear. It's unconscionable. It's obscene. It really is. It means that people are being made homeless. They are being evicted because the rents are going up. We need to have rent controls.</para>
<para>The evidence to the rental inquiry that I've been chairing is very clear that rent controls work and life goes on. In fact, here in the ACT, it would surprise you to know, there have been rent controls in place largely limiting the increase of rents to CPI plus a bit more for over 20 years, since the mid-1990s. The sky has not fallen in. Landlords continued to invest in property. There has continued to be rental property here. But rents have not gone up as much here as they have in other parts of the country.</para>
<para>The third thing we need to be doing is reducing those tax incentives that treat housing as an investment rather than as a human right. We need to get rid of the excesses of negative gearing and capital gains tax discounts, which are costing the budget bottom line billions of dollars every year that should instead be invested in public and affordable housing. The Greens policy is that negative gearing should be restricted to only one property, rather than people being able to negatively gear a whole portfolio of properties. We need to tackle the capital gains tax discounts. Again, all they end up doing is making property investors a lot of money. The cost of housing, whether to buy or to rent, absolutely skyrockets. The bill that we are talking about today, which is dealing with the intersection of our tax system and housing, in this schedule really goes to the heart of the sorts of changes that can be made in this place. We can actually change our tax settings to make housing more affordable. That's what we need to be doing.</para>
<para>We hear heartbreaking stories of people living with their kids in cars. A woman who gave evidence to a rental inquiry last week told us that she could no longer afford to live in the house she'd been renting for the last decade. She was a victim of family violence, and she was paying something like 70 per cent of her income in rent. She sadly decided she had to leave her family home with her two kids. There was nowhere else that she was going to be able to afford to rent. It was impossible for her to find an affordable rental property that meant she could pay the rent, put food on the table for her kids and cover all the other expenses of living, so she'd made the decision that she was going to go and live in a caravan on a relative's property in outback New South Wales.</para>
<para>It didn't have a bathroom. It didn't have a kitchen. It didn't even have a toilet. It was going to be 40-plus degrees in summer. It was going to be zero degrees or below in winter. She was hoping it was going to be okay for her 10-year-old and her five-year-old—her 10-year-old is autistic, as well—that they were going to be living in this caravan, but she was going to give it a go because she just couldn't afford anywhere else. These are the heartbreaking, traumatic stories that are happening across this country at the moment. It is an absolute blight on us that we have hundreds of thousands of people who are struggling, who are living with the financial stress of not being able to afford to keep a decent roof over their head, and who wake up every day and worry about how they will keep their life and their home together.</para>
<para>We need to make changes. We can make changes. As I said, the Greens aren't going to oppose the sorts of changes that are here now, but they are not the key things we need to be doing. We need to invest more in public and affordable housing. We need to make sure that unlimited rent increases are illegal. We need to change the tax concessions. We need to actually acknowledge that housing is a human right, rather than treating it as a commodity. These are all things this government could be doing, and they are all things the Greens are going to keep on campaigning for. We really want to see the government pay proper attention and make these changes, and that is very possible for them to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023, amongst other things, enhances the tax office's powers to deal with applications for the First Home Super Saver Scheme. These are sensible enough changes, as my colleagues have said. We won't oppose them. But they do raise this important issue about the affordability of housing supply and the housing crisis. This policy is just another demand-side measure that pushes up property prices while home ownership is going down at the same time.</para>
<para>As an economist, I know that any measure on housing that increases spending will have the very simple effect of increasing the price of the commodity, increasing demand and pushing up those prices. Without a massive increase in supply, the problem just gets worse.</para>
<para>But it is especially worse and getting much harder for young people. Our young people are negatively affected across our country by what we're witnessing in the housing market. I'm a member of a generation, like so many in this place, who could, as with many other generations, afford to buy a house, to take out and meet the cost of a mortgage on an average wage. This is now beyond the current generations of 20-, 30- and 40-year-olds who cannot buy a home. Their circumstances more broadly are also much worse than previous generations' circumstances. Many of them carry very significant HECS debts. That gets in the way of taking out a mortgage. Many have spent many years employed in insecure jobs, many of them low paid. A quarter of our labour market is in insecure work, in casual jobs in particular, and young people are especially affected. We also recently saw in the <inline font-style="italic">2023 Intergenerational </inline><inline font-style="italic">report</inline> demographics coming down the pipe, which means we expect these young people, who struggled so hard to get in the labour market on insecure jobs and to accumulate assets and income, to pick up the demographic tab to look after the older generations and the demographic changes that are really significantly going to affect spending in our country in the generations ahead. The <inline font-style="italic">Intergenerational report</inline> laid all of that reality out, and the costs for future generations are very significant.</para>
<para>In my state, housing prices have gone through the roof. In South Australia, we are in the midst of a massive crisis both in homeownership and in the rental market. I ride my bike very regularly through the parklands around Adelaide, and we also have a very significant and growing crisis of homelessness on the streets of our city. We need to deal with these questions in a way and at a level that we have never done before, and the Housing Australia Future Fund is an inadequate response, as is increasing the demand through measures like that proposed in this bill. Housing cannot be seen as an asset class, a product for the means of accumulating wealth, as opposed to a roof over people's head to meet the basic need of a decent life.</para>
<para>Without a home, it's incredibly difficult to hold down a job. It's very difficult to raise a family and look after the people you love, and you cannot form a community without housing security. A first homebuyer support measure like this—a tweak—won't make a real difference to housing affordability, especially for young people. It will instead drive up prices.</para>
<para>Housing affordability in South Australia has never been worse, as a new report revealed in recent days. It now takes six years to save for a deposit, and most homes are out of reach for the average person. This is a really damning problem in such a wealthy country. We have a housing affordability index where the latest data, released just last week, reveals that housing affordability is at its worst level in at least three decades in South Australia. According to the index, mortgage repayments for a median-priced home as a share of income are now at a record high, well above levels in 1989, when I bought a home, and higher than the previous peaks in 2008. Repayments on a median-priced home are at $575,000. This figure is an average of all houses and unit sizes across South Australia in the past 12 months. They have now surged to 35 per cent of the average household income, the highest level on record. Of all homes sold in the last 12 months in South Australia, median-income households—that's those earning around $87,000 a year—could afford just 13 per cent. But the choice is much worse for people who are on lower salaries. For example, on the bottom 20th percentile, those people earning around $41,000 could afford just three per cent of homes in our state.</para>
<para>Housing affordability is beyond the reach of so many South Australians now. As I said, it takes a little longer than six years to save just a 20 per cent deposit, compared to about 2½ years in 1990. And high rents—rents that we've never seen before in our state—make it absolutely impossible for too many young people to save a deposit and to begin to work towards homeownership. Any kind of increase or more accessibility to the First Home Super Saver scheme won't save them, and neither will the HAFF. It is not enough to deal with the crisis that we face. This recent report on housing affordability in South Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This deterioration in affordability has been driven by a dramatic rise in mortgage rates, combined with rising home prices over recent years.</para></quote>
<para>It's incredibly challenging for young people or anyone else who's trying to get into the housing market, and it is a major driver of intergenerational inequality. We've heard real estate agents and the real estate industry saying that when a relatively affordable home comes on the market, investors jump at it as quickly as first home buyers, and a lot of times the investors get there first and pay more. That puts a lot of pressure on first home buyers who are competing with a large pool of buyers who are chasing an asset not a roof over their heads. The buyers are still there; they're frustrated, and young people, in particular, are missing out.</para>
<para>We know that, over recent decades, wage growth simply hasn't kept up with skyrocketing property prices and skyrocketing rents, so saving for a deposit, especially when the cost of everything is going up very fast around everybody, is a major barrier for our first home buyers. Buying a home is out of reach for too many Australians, and the HAFF will not fix it. We need policies that build more public and affordable housing while also taking the heat out of prices, which requires ending negative gearing for multiple properties and cutting the capital gains tax discount. This super home saver simply adds to the problems of induced artificial demand, propping up investors who get to reduce their income tax by running a loss on the rent and then get to boost their profits when they sell a house by only paying 50 per cent capital gains tax. To put it another way, the tax you pay on selling a property is half what it would be if you earned the same amount from a job. With our tax system you pay more tax on income from work than if you speculate on property, and that is just wrong.</para>
<para>We have to fix our tax system. We need to build a lot more affordable houses across our country, and we need to cap rents so that people can afford a rental property and have a shot at accumulating a deposit so they can move into homeownership. And we need to stop looking at housing as an asset for the wealthy to accumulate more wealth. It is vitally important to adjust society for an inclusive society for a decent life for people across the income scale, and it is absolutely vital if we're going to be serious about addressing the widening intergenerational inequality that characterises our country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023 is an important piece of legislative reform that is being engaged here. Financial services reform is, of course, a dry subject matter, but it's important. It actually matters. For investors, it matters for certainty and it matters for confidence. There are several pieces of legislation that the Senate will deal with today under the various Treasury laws amendment bills that are before the Senate—measures No. 3 and measures No. 1, at the very least.</para>
<para>These matters are being administered for the government by Mr Jones, and my understanding is that, up until May of this year, they were being administered for the coalition by the much lamented Mr Robert. Mr Robert has been gone for some time. I think he left the parliament in an unhappy fashion in May of this year. Much has been said about Mr Robert's contribution as a member of parliament and as a minister in the government of his friend Mr Morrison. Much has been said about that, and much more will be said about that.</para>
<para>It reminds me of a football player who today departed Greek football team Volos. They issued a statement after he got the sack. He got booted out in very unhappy circumstances after conceding a penalty in the team's match against AEK. His name is Dominik Kruzliak. The club said, 'We don't wish him well in the future, but we will certainly remember him.' I think there's a very strong parallel with the career of Mr Robert. There are very few fans of his—apart from Mr Morrison—who can be found on the other side of the chamber here. There was a little bit of back-slapping—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ayres, I remind you of standing order 193, on personal reflections on members of other houses. You are coming perilously close to infringing on that order, and I'd ask you to come back to the substance of the matter, which is the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I intend to stay slightly less than perilously close. That is my intention. I will come to the substance of the bill, because, while there has been much reflection on that career, what there has not been from those opposite is a focus on the issues that matter in his previous portfolio area. In fact, they gave it so little attention that replacement appointments have not been made. There is a drift. There is lots of throwing of rocks at initiatives that the government undertakes, whether in relation to the area dealt with in this bill or in the other bill that's in front of this chamber. But, on the hard work of engaging with the reform, there has been no appointment, no engagement and no work. We are all aware of the jockeying that's going on around these issues, but Mr Dutton and Mr Taylor, apparently in charge of economic affairs for what passes as the opposition in this place, are unable, because of their internal incapacity, to make a key appointment in this portfolio area of responsibility. That becomes clearer every day—four months, five months and then six months of an incapacity to make that appointment. The 'no-alition's' approach to economic policy, which is to say no to every substantial reform but not to offer any substance in terms of their own approach, becomes starker every day. I know these bits of reform are dry material, but they actually do matter, and it would make a difference if this coalition opposition were up to the task of economic management and making a real, substantial contribution to economic policy in this place.</para>
<para>The Albanese government is all about protecting the interests of consumers. That means safe, well-regulated consumer markets for credit products. That's a core element of a strong and inclusive economy. There's a series of reforms in this bill that go to achieving that broad framework, and I want to take the Senate through those reforms in some detail. Firstly, schedule 1 to the bill introduces new rules that prohibit schemes designed to avoid the application of a product intervention order in relation to a credit facility made under part 7.9A of the Corporations Act 2001. That means that a person or a business can't respond to a product intervention order by engaging in avoidance activity that isn't covered by the order but results in a similar detriment to consumers. This is important reform that delivers certainty and discourages the kind of behaviour that previous royal commissions have called out. Reform has been demanded, and proposals were made but never implemented by the previous government. It's an ongoing pattern—all talk, all press release and no delivery in this area of reform, like so many other areas of reform. You can see it in question time in a whole lot of areas—they're demanding reform from the government in areas where, singularly, over the course of a decade, they were unable to bring themselves to make reforms.</para>
<para>Schedule 1 supplements the Financial Sector Reform Act 2022, which contains anti-avoidance measures to encourage compliance with the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009, and for product intervention orders made under the credit act with a view to minimising consumer harm. Schedule 1 implements equivalent provisions into the Corporations Act.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 to the bill amends the Corporations Act to deliver on this government's election commitment to better recognise the experience of existing financial advisers. It also addresses limitations in the current framework for new entrants. Since the requirement for financial advisers to complete further study was introduced, the number of practising advisors has decreased from approximately 28,000 at its peak to 16,300 advisers currently in the system. In addition, new financial advisers have been unable to meet the education requirements for technical reasons, which has prevented their entry into the industry. The amendments allow experienced advisers with at least 10 years of experience and a clean record, who have passed the exam, to remain in the industry without needing to complete additional education. They will also facilitate entry into the system for new entries. That is achieving the policy objective that was called out so clearly in the royal commission, without providing unnecessary hurdles to growth and turnover in this important sector of the financial services industry. Importantly, in terms of reaching the policy outcome, it will ensure that consumers have access to adequate, properly founded, independent financial advice.</para>
<para>Timely passage of this legislation will give experienced advisers certainty as to their future in the industry—timely passage of the legislation, which is not to be frustrated by full 15-minute contributions over the course of the debate. I am very confident that over the course of today we will see the Senate have a good discussion of these matters and vote in a timely way to ensure that certainty is delivered to this important sector.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is much maligned, Senator Hume, by people around the place. Effectively, because of the findings of the royal commission, this important cohort of advisers—who play an important function in our economy—were all maligned because of the behaviour of some, and this piece of legislative reform does mean that there will be certainty and confidence for this sector. It will provide a good outcome for consumers and a good outcome for the professionals in this sector. If the legislation were not to pass, though, advisers would need to complete up to eight tertiary-level units before 1 January 2026 in order to keep providing that financial advice to their clients.</para>
<para>Schedule 3, importantly, is designed to facilitate competitive outcomes in the provision of clearing and settlement services for cash equities traded in Australia. The ASX group currently has a monopoly over clearing and settlement services for cash equities traded in Australia. The reforms come from recommendations made by the Council of Financial Regulators following reviews into the market for cash equities clearing and settlement in 2012 and 2015. Subsequent to those reviews, the Council of Financial Regulators published three policy statements, which these reforms in this legislation implement.</para>
<para>The reforms will give the Australian Securities and Investments Commission a rule-making power, and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission an arbitration power, in relation to cash and settlement services covered by ministerial determination and declaration respectively. That rulemaking power will allow ASIC to write rules to ensure that competition, if it emerges, is safe and effective in terms of its outcomes for consumers and for the health of the industry more broadly, and, in the meantime, ensure that outcomes for users of cash and settlement services are similar to those that would be expected in a competitive environment. The arbitration power will allow the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission to make binding decisions about the terms of access to cash and settlement services, including price, where negotiations between a provider which has monopoly or significant market power and a user of cash and settlement services have broken down.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 of the bill is about improving the flexibility of the First Home Super Saver Scheme. I listened carefully to the contributions of the two Greens party senators in relation to this matter. Schedule 4 of the bill makes a number of technical amendments that provide users with greater flexibility to correct mistakes made during the First Home Super Saver Scheme release process. Those amendments will increase the discretion of the Commissioner of Taxation to amend and revoke applications to have funds released under the FHSS scheme. This is dry material, indeed, but it's important reform. I commend it to the Senate.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I would like to thank those senators who have contributed to the debate, and particularly my colleague Senator Ayres. Schedule 1 to the bill introduces new rules that prohibit schemes designed to avoid the application of a product intervention order made under part 7.9A of the Corporations Act 2001 in relation to a credit facility.</para>
<para>Safe, well-regulated consumer markets for credit products are a core element of a strong and inclusive economy. That is why the Australian government introduced reforms to the regulation of payday lending and consumer leases through the Financial Sector Reform Act 2022. These changes gave effect to the government's response to the recommendations of the 2016 <inline font-style="italic">Review </inline><inline font-style="italic">of the small amount credit contract laws</inline> report, which included a recommendation to introduce laws to prohibit avoidance behaviour. The Financial Sector Reform Act 2022 introduced anti-avoidance provisions with respect to Australian Securities and Investments Commission—ASIC—product intervention orders made under the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009. This bill extends those provisions to product intervention orders made under the Corporations Act 2001. ASIC has made several product intervention orders under the Corporations Act 2001 targeting predatory lending products that cause significant consumer harm. This amendment will help ensure that a person or business cannot respond to a product intervention order by engaging in avoidance activity that is not covered by the order but results in similar detriment to consumers.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 delivers on the government's election commitment to better recognise the experience of long-serving financial advisers. Together with the amendments to address technical limitations in the new-entrants framework, schedule 2 resolves a number of the practical implementation issues that industry has faced. Schedule 2 supports the financial advice industry to provide Australians with high-quality financial advice.</para>
<para>The reforms in schedule 3 will give certainty to industry that clearing and settlement services will be provided on a fair, reasonable, transparent and non-discriminatory basis. They will also give prospective competitors in the provision of clearing and settlement services certainty about regulators' expectations of their conduct should they be granted a licence to provide these services. ASIC's power will allow it to set and enforce rules in relation to clearing and settlement services in either a monopoly or competitive environment. The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's powers will allow it to make timely and binding resolutions to access disputes where commercial negotiations have failed. These reforms have been long recommended by the Council of Financial Regulators and endorsed by industry stakeholders. They strike the right balance between empowering regulators, giving certainty to industry, promoting competition and innovation and ensuring financial system stability.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 to the bill will make technical changes to improve the operation of the First Home Super Saver Scheme by affording the Commissioner of Taxation and users of the scheme greater flexibility to correct mistakes and avoid adverse financial outcomes. I commend this bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated, but does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I'll call the minister.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>25</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7046" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>25</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023 is a six-schedule Treasury omnibus bill, and the coalition will be supporting this bill. The compliance burden and complexity of the Corporations Act and financial services framework is an issue that is consistently raised by stakeholders. Red tape is a growing challenge for business. However, support for passage of this bill is no substitute for a government that is refusing to take responsibility for high inflation, rising mortgage payments, rising prices at the check-out and rising energy bills, to name just a few pressures faced by ordinary Australians. These challenges faced by Australians are not at all addressed in this bill. Instead, we have a government that doesn't have a plan and doesn't have the priorities to fix the problems that are facing Australians today.</para>
<para>Schedules 1, 2 and 3 of the bill make amendments to implement recommendations made by the Australian Law Reform Commission in interim reports A and B of its review of the legislative frameworks for the corporations and financial services regulations. These measures are designed to make a number of technical amendments and corrections to simplify the law and improve its navigability, as recommended by the ALRC. The changes seek to create a single glossary of defined terms in the Corporations Act, repeal redundant provisions, correct errors, improve clarity and unfreeze the Acts Interpretation Act 1901 so that the current version applies to the Corporations Act and the Australian Securities and Investments Commission Act. Schedule 4 makes amendments to the Insurance Acquisitions and Takeovers Act 1991, the Life Insurance Act 1995 and the Insurance Act 1973. These acts are the enabling acts of certain legislative instruments regulating the insurance industry, and they are due to sunset 1 October this year. This schedule will update certain provisions in order to reflect more modern practices. Schedule 5 transfers longstanding and accepted matters currently contained in three Australian Securities and Investments Commission-made legislative instruments to the Corporations Act and the National Consumer Credit Protection Act 2009. Schedule 6 amends various laws in the Treasury portfolio to ensure that those laws operate in accordance with policy intent. It makes minor changes to improve administrative outcomes and remedies unintentional consequences, as well as correcting technical and drafting defects.</para>
<para>The coalition supports measures that reduce red tape for business and always will. Independent research has estimated that the cost of red tape to the economy is $176 billion annually. Red tape's cost to the economy is more than just a direct cost. It includes businesses never started, jobs never created and ambitions never fulfilled due to bureaucratic interference. This project is no small task, with Treasury portfolio laws covering over 50 acts that contain thousands and thousands of provisions spanning corporations law, taxation, competition, consumer policy and financial sector deregulation. This needs to be the beginning—not the end—of reducing red tape and supporting deregulation.</para>
<para>Sadly, while this bill has many features that we can support, it doesn't make up for Labor's broken promises on tax, on franking credits, on superannuation taxes and, particularly, on taxing unrealised capital gains. Many small business will be captured under Labor's super changes and unrealised capital gains taxes. Many charities will lose out from Labor's broken promise on franking credits. Labor's broken promise on superannuation taxes means that, with soaring cost-of-living pressures, Australians will be worse off. It's not just a broken promise; it undermines confidence in our superannuation system. Superannuation, please remember, is your money; it's not the government's money. It's your money to deliver quality of life in retirement. It's not a piggy bank for governments to tax and spend. Despite promising no changes to superannuation before the election, the Prime Minister is proposing to double super taxes on one in 10 Australians by the time they retire. He's proposing to stop companies from offering franking credits to Australian investors, to superannuation funds and to charities. The Prime Minister is proposing to tax unrealised capital gains in super, meaning that Australian retirees will pay tax on money that they haven't even made yet. Labor was dishonest about changing superannuation. They've been dishonest about how many Australian will be affected. Despite claiming less than 80,000 Australians will be affected, independent research has shown that, by retirement age, more than 500,000 will be hit by this new tax. The government can't explain how the change will work. They can't explain how many people will be affected. The Prime Minister says it will only impact one in 200 people. How wrong he is. The Minister for Finance says it will impact one in 10. But if the government can't explain it, how can Australians understand it? Australians will be right to wonder what Australia will tax next.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's more! We have not one but two opportunities. I thought, 'I haven't made a contribution in relation to financial services regulation reform,' as I was wandering past the Senate chamber door and I heard that phrase. I thought I might have an opportunity to have a few things to say about it, and I took that opportunity in the last debate. I was delighted to have an opportunity to participate in that. I find that there is another opportunity with another important piece of reform that the Albanese Labor government has scheduled here for the Senate's consideration to make a contribution in this important area of financial services reform. I would be delighted to find out there were a third and fourth over the course of today or this week; that would be absolutely terrific.</para>
<para>I listened carefully to Senator Hume's contribution. There's a silver lining in every cloud, isn't there? The silver lining is that the coalition has indicated they are going to support this important piece of reform. The cloud is the balance of the contribution, which demonstrates the incapacity of the Liberal and National parties to learn the lessons from the last election. Australians are looking for government to act in an adult way, in the national interest, in their interests whether it is drier areas of financial services reform like this or in other matters. But what we got instead from Senator Hume in the coalition's contribution was a sort of spray of allegations about the performance of this government in this area, about high inflation and the high cost of living, questions which of course the Morrison government paid no attention to—declining productivity, the worst period of productivity growth.</para>
<para>Sensible competition law reform, sensible financial services reforms are not insignificant contributors to productivity. But after the worst decade on record in productivity growth, those opposite have no regard to these issues now. It is all finger-pointing and fingerpainting their set of issues. They can't be taken seriously if they don't engage with their own economic failure in office and the position they have left Australia in.</para>
<para>I heard a young person in my home suburb refer to the 'cozzy livs'. Apparently, that is what the young people call the cost of living. It has become such a big issue for Australian families that it has found its way into the popular culture for young people as well. Moving on from the desultory decade of failure of those opposite over the cost of living, supply chain pressures, productivity and energy policy, all of these things are making it harder for Australian families, Australian households, Australian industry and the Australian economy to adjust to the high cost of living and increase in the cost of living.</para>
<para>Senator Hume then reflected in an extraordinary way on the fiscal position of this government. This government, the Albanese government, in its second budget in May delivered a surplus. I remember the 'back in black' smugness of the previous government when it came to claiming an illusory surplus that they never delivered. I remember it well because Senator Hume and former Senator Cormann and all these characters were out with their 'back in black' mugs. The music didn't quite fit—they glossed over the way 'back in black' didn't quite bang in the way the song 'Back in Black' does—but they produced mugs. I remember the mugs well because I've got 12 of them. I want to say very clearly, because I'm sure the organisational wing of the Labor Party is listening, I didn't buy them from the Liberal Party of Australia. They were available on their website. You could see them there; they were available. Liberal Party branch members, I'm sure, were buying them. They're not bringing them out for afternoon teas now. They're in the bin, in the back cupboard or being used to prop up the cat box or whatever else. I had them made. I want to assure senators that no profit for the Liberal Party of Australia was engaged in my purchase of these mugs. There was a Reject Shop in Redfern that made up mugs—any old mugs—and it made up these mugs.</para>
<para>I've got the mugs in my office as a lasting memorial to the gap between Liberal Party promises, Liberal Party slogans, Liberal Party fantasies and delivery. As it always turns out, during a period of being too long in office they trashed opportunities in financial services reform—a subject I want to keep coming back to, the subject of this important piece of legislation—malingered in other areas of economic reform and went missing in energy policy, where their signature achievement, apart from a decade of complete chaos and desultory hopelessness, was to remove four gigawatts of capacity from the system and put only one back in. They are the biggest driver of high energy and electricity prices in the Australian economy today, which is why the then energy minister, now the shadow Treasurer, Mr Taylor, hid from the Australian people in the lead-up to the election, in a less than honest way, the upcoming electricity price rises that Australian consumers could expect as a result of the Morrison government's, the Turnbull government's and the Abbott government's hopeless failures in energy policy.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's a stretch. What a joke! You're trying to shut down coal and gas.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As much as you want to make noise in 2023 about energy policy failure, do you know what has driven energy policy failure? It's 2022, it's 2021 and it's 2020. It's the period between 2013 and 2019. Much like in financial services reform, where right now the 'no-alition' can't bring themselves to make key appointments in economic policy areas because they're good at slogans, memes and negative politics but have never been any good at hard work, they want to create the impression that systemic, structural failures in our energy market, driven by nine-and-a-bit years of indolence and inward-looking arguments, are somehow a substitute. But Australians have got used to the negative politics of Mr Dutton, Mr Taylor and the opposition. What has the Albanese government delivered? A surplus. What has the government done with the surplus? It has banked most of it in a prudent and careful way and it has provided sensible cost-of-living relief that puts downward pressure on inflation. And it has been open. It's not like the last government, who spent every cent plus had a trillion dollars in debt with nothing to show for it in terms of lasting reform. What this government has done is they've acted prudently, banked the surplus for use in future years and to retire debt, and been open about the structural challenges that the Australian economy faces. They've put downward pressure on the cost of living.</para>
<para>This piece of reform is an important piece of reform. It goes with the last piece of legislation that the chamber dealt with. I listened carefully to Senator Hume's contribution about red tape—another area where there is a constant refrain, constant sloganeering and constant moaning. They made no action in government to deal with unnecessary or burdensome regulation, no action in government to make dealing with government and regulation simpler. There was a lot of carry on—I think Senator Hume said there was a $176 billion annual cost in terms of regulation and red tape in the economy. I'm not sure whether to take that on face value or not, but there are certainly costs associated with regulation. What you get from the other side is talk. What you get is sophistry. What you get is slogans. What you get are sentences that are a blizzard of words that are really about their own biases and prejudices as they talk to themselves, but they are never engaged with the action. What this government has done in its short period in office is grab hold of some of these issues. In terms of dealing with business, there is red tape and there is regulation. There is smart regulation. There is regulation that is designed to achieve its policy objective with the least cost to businesses and the best outcome for consumers and workers.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, please!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In the Albanese government we are moving from red tape for business to a red carpet for business. That's what we are doing. We are making effective reforms that mean workers and businesses and consumers can approach—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Gee, that was good. That was fun. I enjoyed every second of that.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm aware of that, Senator Ayres.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What they didn't like was the confidence with which we approach these issues. From red tape to red carpet—that's what it is all going to be about. It's good regulation that achieves its objective like this in financial services reform, environmental reform, law reform or—wait for it—industrial relations reform in the interests of workers and business, actually protecting and defending good businesses and closing loopholes. The that this piece of legislation in financial services and the government's agenda in industrial relations reform have in common can be encapsulated in two words: 'closing loopholes'.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, you have one minute.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to speak on the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023. I think the point my learned colleague was talking about was very fine—dealing with the red tape so we can have the red carpet out for business. I was just with businesses in the road transport industry, and small businesses, large businesses, owner-drivers and workers were turning around and saying they want to have a fair playing field. They want to have the red carpet out for those companies that do the right thing, look after their workforce and make sure that business can fairly compete, not the scoundrels who literally have people killed on our roads or are stealing money from workers.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, you will be in continuation. I shall now proceed to senators' statements. With the concurrence of the Senate, the clerks will set the clock in accordance with the informal arrangements for speaking times agreed by the whips.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>27</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Relations</title>
          <page.no>27</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On Monday of this week, I spoke in the chamber about my recent travel to Lithuania and the deeply enriching experience of meeting with diplomats, parliamentarians and stakeholders from a wide range of nations with whom I was privileged to be interacting. Opportunities for education, consultation and learning are rarely gifted to us, and they must be sought out. As parliamentarians, we have an active duty to engage with as many of our own constituents and stakeholders as possible and to actively seek out the wisdom and advice of exports whenever we are able to do so.</para>
<para>The work that's done within this parliament is not just important in the context of our own lives and the lives of our constituents. Australia is part of a global network of countries and communities who we must engage with, particularly those that support the values that are enshrined in the practices of our democracy here: a respect for the international order and the rule of law. Democracy is not something that we should ever take for granted. The capacity to stand in this place and speak on the matters which are of import to us and our communities is a privilege, and it was hard fought for and won. We must actively strive to preserve it. Australia must be increasingly international in our efforts to remain a benchmark for respect and tolerance within the international community and to continue our ongoing engagements with other nations.</para>
<para>Over the course of my travel through Ireland, the UK, Lithuania and Poland, I was privileged to engage with multiple ambassadors for Australia who are currently on postings overseas and serving our nation in that capacity. I spoke on Monday about my extensive engagement with the parliament of Lithuania and also Ambassador Lloyd Brodrick, who is the Australian ambassador to Poland and Lithuania.</para>
<para>I was also privileged to meet in Warsaw with Australia's ambassador to Ukraine, Mr Bruce Edwards. Many times in this place, I have sought to bring attention to Russia's illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine and the need for Australia to ensure the ongoing condemnation of the gross breach of state sovereignty which has occurred. Ambassador Edwards's deep knowledge of the conflict and his ongoing representation of Australia within this region is commendable, and to meet with him and discuss the issues that prevailed as we approached the second year of the war, in February, was a very great privilege for me. Australia must continue to shine a light on the conflict within Ukraine and to provide whatever support we are able to provide for their people. We must be a trusted friend and a supporter of their democracy. I'm proud to be part of a government which continues to engage meaningfully with this issue, and I look forward to continuing to advocate for the Ukrainian people within the parliament. I also note that the Australian embassy in Kyiv has been relocated to Warsaw, in Poland, and it is only in recent weeks that Mr Bruce Edwards has been able to travel into Ukraine to meet with key stakeholders there and to continue to commit Australia's support for action to encourage and support the resolution of that war in Ukraine.</para>
<para>My travel concluded with a number of days in London at the international Parliamentary Intelligence-Security Forum. In particular, I want to thank those who played a crucial role in the formation and organisation of this event. One of those who provided opening remarks at the beginning of the conference was the Hon. Robert Pittenger, the chairman of the Parliamentary Intelligence-Security Forum. We were also given great insight into the particular situation in the UK by Alicia Kearns MP, a member of the House of Commons and chair of the United Kingdom's Foreign Affairs Committee; Colonel the Rt Hon. Bob Stewart, a member of the UK's parliament; and the Hon. French Hill, a member of the US Congress and of the US House intelligence, financial services and foreign affairs committees.</para>
<para>Gaining insights from these international players in the democracy space who are advocating for the advancement of good policy is important work for all of us to do. We have great leadership throughout the parliaments with the ministers and the departments who do the work, but each of us is called on to take our part. It's our responsibility to inform ourselves about what's happening in the world around us.</para>
<para>A number of panels throughout the conference were on matters of particular interest to us here in Australia and were particularly relevant to the work I'm undertaking. A panel on illicit finance was presented by parliamentary and industry experts from across the world. It touched on issues of financial crime and the response. It highlighted the ongoing need for engagement between nations as we seek to respond to criminal behaviour in the 21st century. As our world becomes increasingly interconnected there has to be capacity for governments and law enforcement agencies to work productively with one another in order to protect consumers and governments from dangerous cybercrime and illicit finance.</para>
<para>The panel was particularly important with respect to my role as the chair of the Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services. I look forward to sharing the insights gained through this panel with my colleagues and to continuing to undertake work on this matter through the forum of that committee and through input to discussions about legislation that comes to the chamber.</para>
<para>Earlier this morning there was debate on a private senator's bill that talked about digital assets. The matter of cryptocurrency and digital assets was also prominent throughout the conference. Earlier today I was hoping to speak to the bill and share some of the new knowledge on that matter. I expect the bill will return to the chamber, and I will make a contribution at that point in time.</para>
<para>As technology continues to develop and digital assets evolve it's crucial we have deep subject matter knowledge and capacity to generate appropriate and effective policy as a government. The insights gained on this matter throughout the conference, particularly through the panel discussion of industry experts, were deeply informative and notably heightened my understanding of the core issues at hand. There was discussion of adversarial foreign investments, which was of particular interest to me and deeply relevant to the work I previously undertook related to Australia's Foreign Investment Review Board. That was in my capacity as part of the Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services in previous parliaments.</para>
<para>International engagement with colleagues should not be an afterthought of governments. None of us should absolve ourselves of the responsibility to be 'team Australia' as part of this parliament and interact with our colleagues around the world. It's a crucial component of our responsibility as parliamentarians to engage meaningfully with those counterparts overseas, both to solidify Australia's crucial role in the international community and to ensure that our legislatures are benefiting from the full breadth of global knowledge that exists on matters that are relevant for us.</para>
<para>I put it simply: if Australians aren't in the rooms around the world where these matters are being discussed, we will be overlooked, and we have a vital role to play. Throughout the former government we saw again and again Australia's place on the global stage slipping and the international respect for our nation dwindling. I'm deeply proud of the work undertaken in this sector since the Albanese government has come to power, particularly the steps by Minister Wong to cement Australia's reputation on the international stage.</para>
<para>We are once again a respected and revered member of the global community, with leadership that is trusted by other nations. We cannot take this for granted. It's crucial for our stability and security that we can be relied on by all other nations. Our allies in particular need us to fulfil our obligations, to attend to our commitments to be international, global citizens, to use the opportunities that are granted to us, to seek the opportunities that we may be able to take and to advance Australia fair.</para>
<para>I look forward to next month when I will attend the Inter-Parliamentary Union's 147th assembly in Luanda, Angola, with a team of colleagues. Along with my colleagues from across this parliament, I will convene with parliamentarians from a wide range of other nations and engage in meaningful discussions related to but not exclusive to trade, human rights, economic stability and security. These particular opportunities through the IPU are incredibly important, and such engagement cannot be taken for granted. I consider it a deep privilege to represent this parliament in the international community at this forum.</para>
<para>I'm also looking forward with eagerness to December this year when I will join with members of the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties on a delegation to India. We will be able to meet with crucial stakeholders and further enrich our understanding of the importance of issues on which we must engage throughout the course of our work. Yesterday, in planning for that trip, I asked the secretariat to have a look at how we can see how Australia's international education is intersecting with the provision of Australian education in-country in India, which is a very significant growth sector for us.</para>
<para>Nothing great can be done alone. That's why it's crucial that Australia is a trusted partner on the global stage and that we engage meaningfully, proactively and frequently with other nations in the spirit of goodwill and in the interest of peace.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pacific Australia Labour Mobility Scheme</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a contribution in relation to the PALM scheme, which is so important to so many regional communities around our country. I also want to express the significant nervousness that exists within our agricultural sector, and particularly our horticultural sector, in relation to some of the changes that the government is considering making to the PALM scheme at the moment, especially with the overlay of some of the other industrial relations changes that are being proposed at the moment. Growers, farmers and those who are coming to Australia under the PALM scheme are quite nervous about many of these changes.</para>
<para>This program, which has been in place for a while, is a very important one for a whole range of reasons. It's an extremely important scheme in relation to our regional partnerships. Many people come to this country to assist in growing and harvesting crops that just would not get grown, or harvested, without access to the labour that the PALM scheme brings to this country, from South Pacific countries, East Timor and a number of other countries in the region. It is valued from both sides of the equation. The remittances that are sent back to these countries make an important contribution to their economies, so ensuring that the program works on both sides of the equation is extremely important.</para>
<para>We need to ensure that there is integrity and that it's maintained from an Australian perspective. The circumstance that we saw arise earlier this year on the north-west coast of Tasmania, where there were 18 PALM workers in one room in a residential property on the north-west coast, is completely unacceptable. These things cannot be allowed to happen. The integrity of the scheme is vital. Each level of government needs to play its part properly in managing the process. We can't have one level of government passing things back onto other levels of government. Each level of government needs to properly understand and enforce its role under the scheme.</para>
<para>We cannot allow any shifting of blame to undermine the integrity of the workforce. We don't want to reduce the confidence that exists in the scheme by having occurrences like the one in north-west Tasmania occurring again. People need to play their role. They need to understand their role. The scheme needs to work effectively alongside the way that farming and horticulture work. Genuine concerns are being expressed to me by some users around minimum hours in a weekly period. For example, averaging that over a longer period of two or four weeks, to ensure that the workers receive the income they should receive—they're going to get the work because the crop needs to be grown and to be harvested—but also to allow some flexibility in the way that that work is conducted, is also an important factor. It's an important factor in managing the operation of the scheme. Nature doesn't understand work to rules. When the crop is ripe to be picked, it needs to be picked. It needs to be processed and it needs to be taken to market, and that needs to be done quickly and effectively.</para>
<para>The growers do their very best to ensure an even growth, to bring the crop on in a way that they can predict and then manage their labour. They are getting good at that and they work very hard at it. The changes in environmental, atmospheric and weather conditions can vary the best-laid plans for those growers. The government needs to be prepared to allow the scheme to work to ensure that there is enough flexibility not only for the growers to be able to manage those variations but also, as I have said, to protect the workforce. It is very important that they also retain confidence in the scheme.</para>
<para>There are growers who have developed relationships with particular workforce segments in various jurisdictions around the region, and those workers come back year on year on year. They are becoming very skilled and valued employees of these growers, extremely valued. So we need to be able to maintain the reliability of the relationship, the longevity of the relationship to the benefit of all concerned and to the Australian consumer, who receives the benefit of the produce that is being put into the market, cost effectively and efficiently.</para>
<para>The workers coming to Australia from those other jurisdictions are receiving the benefit of the training, the regular work, the opportunity to send remittances back to their country and the opportunity to take those skills back to their country. Many of them open their own businesses back in their local communities. There are a whole range of benefits to be gained and are being gained from this very important scheme that provides capacity in the agricultural sector, particularly the horticultural sector, in the country to ensure that crops not only get grown but are then harvested and sent to market.</para>
<para>But what we do not want is big city union decisions being imposed in a way that completely misunderstands how farming works, jeopardising the structure of the system. The government needs to properly engage with farmers, growers and their representatives to ensure that the system works effectively for all of the parties to this process. We know that the government does not understand because we have seen that with changes to horticultural law, which have negatively impacted on the farming sector and community. Those who are driving a rules based system do not understand farming and agriculture and the natural variations which come with growing things and then harvesting them when they are ready to be harvested. When they are ready, they are ready; they have to be harvested.</para>
<para>Anyone who has worked on the land understands those cycles and understands how much extra you put in during the harvest season. All of us who have worked on the land understand that. But the government needs to be prepared to understand and recognise that as well and work not only with our communities but also with state and local governments so that everybody in the supply chain understands what their role is, particularly with respect to ensuring that the facilities and amenities available to these workforces are what we would all expect they should be and that there is not capacity for people to pass the buck or pass the blame when somebody does the wrong thing. Those who have the responsibility should meet the responsibility and enforce the regulations at their respective levels.</para>
<para>So I would urge the government, as I've said, to work closely with the growers and listen to those who have practical experience and knowledge in these matters to ensure that the integrity of the scheme is maintained for the benefit of everybody who is benefiting from it. That ranges from the Australian consumer, who enjoys the fruits of these horticultural practices, and businesses across the country right through to the workers who come to Australia to support the growing and harvesting of those crops.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Constitution: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>30</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We all know that that there's a referendum coming up, and last week we finally received the date of 14 October. This is a very exciting time for our nation and an important opportunity to refresh our Constitution to include something that should have been included in the original document: recognition of the First Peoples of this country, my people, who have inhabited this land and cared for this country for tens of thousands of years. But, as history has told us, we were excluded from the Constitution. We were not even counted as people. First Nations people were systematically excluded not only from the Constitution but from what the settlers have called modern Australia. This was because, according to them, we were a dying race and our elimination was crucial to the success of a modern and white Australia. This can be clearly seen in the quotes and actions of Alfred Deakin, the second Prime Minister of Australia. In 1901, he laid out his vision for the country and he wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In another century the probability is that Australia will be a white continent with not a black or even dark skin among its inhabitants. The Aboriginal race has died out in the south and is dying fast in the north and west, even where most gently treated. Other races are to be excluded by legislation if they are tinted to any degree. The yellow, the brown, and the copper-coloured are to be forbidden to land anywhere.</para></quote>
<para>This quote should absolutely shock people, but it's a reminder of how far we actually have come. Mr Deakin was embarrassingly wrong in his predictions of what modern Australia would look like. First and foremost, despite the government's best efforts, not only are First Nations people still here but we are here in the nation's parliament, we are in businesses, we are in universities and we are succeeding.</para>
<para>However, there's still a long way to go. Only four of the 19 Closing the Gap targets are on track, our sacred sites are still under threat from destruction, and we continue to be disproportionately overrepresented in such areas as homelessness, family and domestic violence and incarceration. There's a lot of work to be done, and there is no one silver bullet that will magically fix over 200 years of oppression and injustice. The Voice to Parliament is only part of this solution.</para>
<para>We know that, when First Nations people are directly involved in matters that affect them, it leads to better outcomes. First Nations people have the solutions. We have the knowledge and the ability to care for ourselves and our communities. Whether it be in the Uluru Statement from the Heart, the Barunga Statement, the Yirrkala bark petitions or the call to action from Yule River—honestly, I could go on and on—fundamentally what First Nations people have been crying out for is to be heard and for people to let us do what we know best, and that is to take care of our mobs.</para>
<para>I come from five generations of the stolen generations, and I know firsthand what intergenerational trauma, loss and hurt have resulted from successive government policies thinking they know what's best for us blackfullas and from most of the social engineering that enabled some of this legislation to be not only created but also implemented to our detriment. I see now governments with the best intentions but not fully understanding the diversity of First Nations cultural laws and practices across this country and how best to create policy that not only captures this diversity but also celebrates it. Governments don't know what our birthing and burial sites and our songlines that contain our creator spirits and stories of our ancient culture are or look like, or that they are being disturbed and destroyed, which will have disastrous consequences for our spirituality. They also don't know what it truly means to be able to speak in our native tongue, the one in which our ancestors told our creation stories and gave names to our totems and also to our places. How could they understand when they are yet to have the truth-telling on a much broader scale—one that can articulate the nation's history through the way we see our country, our kinship, our culture, our law and our language absolutely through our eyes? It's true that we have 11 of us mob here now in parliament. The job we have is enormous—trying to explain the diversity of our mob and the ways in which we advocate for our people, for the protection of our cultural heritage and for our community led solutions, but there is so much more we can do and learn. This is why we need a Voice to parliament.</para>
<para>Today I want to issue a call to action for everyone who is eligible to vote in the referendum. Firstly, ensure that you are enrolled to vote. Check with your friends and family and make sure they've enrolled to vote. Check that your enrolment details are up to date. If you've moved recently or changed your name, update your enrolment through the AEC's website. Secondly, get involved. Winning a referendum is no easy feat. We know this. With all this misinformation and fearmongering that's going on out there, it will take all of us to do our part. Get in contact with Yes23. Whatever you are comfortable with or interested in, there is a way for you to play your part. This is an exciting opportunity for all of us to come together and fight for an Australia that we want to live in—one that acknowledges the hurt and trauma that First Nations people have been subjected to, and the continuation of that, which is a legacy that we see today. We want to see a nation that goes further, not just acknowledging but also taking action to listen to those who have been impacted about change for the better and where we should be heading as a collective into our future pathway to walk together.</para>
<para>In my home state of Western Australia, they did the most remarkable things in acknowledging First Peoples. They elected the first Aboriginal woman to an Australian parliament, Aunty Carol Martin; the first Aboriginal man to the House of Representatives, Uncle Ken Wyatt; the 'father of reconciliation', my colleague Senator Pat Dodson; and me, as the first Aboriginal woman to represent Western Australia in the federal parliament.</para>
<para>I want to address some of the issues that have been laid bare—in particular, the one around the opposition leader, who went on to Sky News to tell the Australian public that they will hold another referendum to recognise First Peoples in the Constitution, which is flying in the face of what First Nations people have actually asked for. I'm sensing a sense of regret in Mr Dutton's voice about not giving his bipartisan support to an important opportunity in this referendum. We cannot choose to play politics with the lives of First Nations people, and I absolutely don't want to wait another two or three generations for this opportunity to come around again. So my message to the politicians in this place is to stop using us as a football. Come to the table and negotiate. If you get it wrong, own it!</para>
<para>We have a small window of opportunity for making a change that could impact on generations to come. I want us all to be able to reflect on our time in this place and be able to say: 'We did the right thing. We stood on the right side of history.' So, on 14 October, please write 'yes'.</para>
<para>I also want to address a <inline font-style="italic">Guardian </inline>article that came out today in relation to a misinformation pamphlet that contains a QR code saying that it a link is to a postal vote. It actually doesn't link people back to the AEC's website; it links people to the Liberal Party's website. It is misinformation to tell people that they are going to register, to take people's data and to use that. It is dirty tactics to use that in this referendum, and it must stop! It is, unfortunately, not illegal, but the Australian Greens party and our democracy portfolio holder, Senator Waters, has spoken about this in the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters. This must be addressed because it is misleading and untrue, and it is taking people's data and collecting their contact details. So I am urging people to not play into the misinformation and the 10 items that are listed on this pamphlet. This should absolutely lay bare for people the misinformation and the dirty tactics that are being used in this referendum campaigning. It must stop, because it is to the detriment of our people, who are hurting and who are upset. These are the tactics that are dividing the nation.</para>
<para>If you see these pamphlets, do what I'm going to do: screw them up and throw them over your shoulder, because they belong in the past and not in politics in this place.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Qantas</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today marks a very special day. I've never been so excited to see a CEO leave an entity as I am today. I shouldn't be getting up here boasting about this; this is a very sorry stain on our nation. I'm talking about Mr Alan Joyce from Qantas. For all of us who have travelled overseas, there's nothing greater than seeing the red tail with the white kangaroo on of that airplane waiting to take us home. But I do not feel that way about Qantas now. I think it's timely we should discuss this today in our nation, in Parliament House.</para>
<para>This is a CEO who has done so much damage to the most iconic brand in this nation setting sail—walking out with, I think, $24 million. I believe he sold 17 million shares back in June before the September report was tabled to shareholders. Somehow this is the same CEO who presided over a number of shocking, shocking things in this nation. We all know that when the previous government shut down the airlines and shut down aviation, they did it for the right reasons: to try to keep our country as safe as possible. There's no argument about that. But the CEO of Qantas put his hand out to take $2.4 billion of JobKeeper money—that was taxpayers' money, not government money. We know why it was done: to keep workers connected to the company. Then in the dark of the night he illegally sacked 1,700 below-the-wing full-time Qantas employees—and by 'below-the-wing' I mean baggage handlers and cabin cleaners.</para>
<para>They weren't sacked because of the pandemic—no, no, no! And not because Joyce had $2.4 billion to keep his employees connected to the company—no, no, no! It was because he and that rotten board at Qantas wanted to save a heck of a lot of money, so they outsourced those 1,700 jobs. The jobs were still there. The only thing is that there were new employees brought in on part-time and casual employment at some $12 or $14 an hour less, having to buy their own safety gear, because of Joyce and the rotten board, led by rigid Goyder—I said 'rigid'; something came into my mind! I meant to say Richard Goyder. And do we think we should be proud? Should we be happy because Alan Joyce has stood down? Let's get to the nub of it: those 1,700 workers went to the court. They won in the court—they were found to have been sacked illegally. So what did Joyce and the board of Qantas do? They threw millions and millions of dollars more of the company's money to take this to the Supreme Court. They lost again—once again, the workers were deemed to have been sacked illegally. It's now in High Court. And we think that this is a great company?</para>
<para>We should dig down a little deeper. What about those 8,000 ghost flights? Qantas, under Alan Joyce and the same rotten board that's there now, were selling airfares up to 47 days after they had cancelled the flights. I have to say this: in just about every business I can think of in Australia, you can go out there and put your hard-earned on the table to purchase something—I don't care if it's a screwdriver, an air ticket, a tyre or whatever it may be. And if for some reason you don't want it and you take it back—you might want a different model, you might have bought the wrong one—what's the first thing that happens? They say, 'Show your receipt and we'll return your money.' Qantas has $570 million of Australians' hard-earned money, spent buying airfares, and most of those tickets were cancelled because the flights were cancelled. But they say: 'We don't give you your money back. No, we'll keep it in credits. But not only will we keep it in credits; we'll lie to you. We won't tell you how much we have.'</para>
<para>It took a Senate inquiry with my great mate Senator Tony Sheldon in Melbourne last week to find that out. It was like dragging blood out of a stone; while Qantas said they only had $300-odd million, $570 million of Australians' money was tucked away in their bank while they announced a $2.8 billion profit. I'm not against profit, but I'm against lying and I'm against theft. This is the model that Alan Joyce and the board of Qantas have created.</para>
<para>But let's dig a little bit deeper, shall we? Let's look at the board of Qantas. Who is the chairman of Qantas? It is one Richard Goyder. A lot of the white-collar, born-with-a-silver-spoon-in-their-mouths, blue-rinse set love Richard Goyder. I don't love Richard Goyder. I don't know how he gets up in the morning, looks in the mirror and shaves, without cutting his nose off. Who in their right mind can wake up in the morning and feel good and go to work, saying: 'I've ripped millions and millions dollars off the Australian travelling public. I've illegally sacked 1,700 of our loyal employees, but God I feel good.' Then again, looking at what Mr Goyder is paid as the chairman of the board might help. It was a miserable $560,000 last year and a paltry $658,000 this year.</para>
<para>Richard Goyder is the same bloke who my friends at Woodside Energy have as their chairman. Woodside, it's a mark on you—and I've always spoken up for Woodside—that you only play him $723,000! That's up to Woodside, and it's their business, but I want to highlight that this bloke is not a decent human being. Goyder was also on the board of Wesfarmers, where his final payslip was a mind-boggling $12 million, and during his tenure at Wesfarmers he pocketed $90.1 million in salaries and incentives. This is the bloke who sits on the Qantas board. We might think that, because Alan Joyce walks away today, the Qantas brand is going to return to being the great icon that it once was in this nation. But how can it with the same man at the helm of the board? You can't wash your old 1960 ute and then sell off the bucket of nuts and bolts as the latest Cadillac. Don't try and fool us, Mr Goyder. Australians and the Australian travelling public will not fall for this rubbish.</para>
<para>Goyder has been ably backed up by a band of merry men and women who have sat on the board with him while giving Joyce the green light to go ahead with all the tactics and antics and theft from the Australian travelling public. I'll mention the other board members, though I don't know them from a bar of soap. There is one Maxine Brenner, a banker who's become a 'career director'. Those aren't my words—this is what I read about her. She also sits on the boards of Origin Energy, Telstra and Woolworths. If I was Origin Energy, Telstra or Woolworths, I wouldn't be seen within a bull's roar of anyone who sits on the Qantas board. But that's up to them. They're the ones that need to make that decision. If they feel comfortable at night, my God, how bad is this country going?</para>
<para>Another board member is one Jacqueline Hey, who's chair of the Qantas remuneration committee. Ms Hey rubberstamped Mr Joyce's pay rises and bonuses, as did all her other mates on the board. Ms Hey is also chair of the Bendigo and Adelaide Bank, and was a former director of AGL Energy and Cricket Australia. I don't know if they woke up or whatever, but, anyway, it's none of my business. She's been on the boards of a couple of banks. I don't have the greatest respect for banks in Australia either.</para>
<para>There is a real purple circle here in Australia, I can tell you. I suppose, if you're in the circle, you can pull in $200,000 to sit on a board, make decisions about illegally sacking 1,700 workers—that's 1,700 families on the rubbish tip the next morning—and then feel good about it. I was brought up better than that.</para>
<para>Another board member is Belinda Hutchinson. She joined the board in 2018 as a 30-year veteran of the financial services sector. My God. Michael L'Estrange is another board member. A former secretary of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, he joined the Qantas board in 2016 and was involved in ticking off Joyce's pay rises and all this terrible behaviour. It says a bit more about the bloke—I wouldn't know him from a bar of soap—that Michael L'Estrange was also on the board of Rio Tinto. You might say: so what? He was on the board of Rio Tinto at the time they destroyed the Juukan Gorge, which we know is the only inland site in Australia to show continuous human habitation for 46,000 years. Seriously!</para>
<para>Then there's Todd Sampson, the Canadian-born marketing expert, who joined the board of Qantas in 2015. He's a regular on <inline font-style="italic">Gruen</inline>, the TV show. He may have insights, with a bit of luck, to give the new CEO a hand in reversing reputational damage.</para>
<para>But, through you, Deputy President, there are another two: Anthony Tyler and another fellow named Doug Parker. Seriously, I know I'll get support of my colleagues in this building about this. None of us in this building or in the other place could ever stand up and support the ratbag behaviour of Qantas under the CEO Alan Joyce since the pandemic, and none of us in here would ever support having the likes of Richard Goyder on any one of our boards, should we be lucky enough to have one.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Vietnam War, Cost of Living, Myanmar</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to acknowledge that our nation recently marked an important and sombre milestone, the 50th anniversary of Australia's withdrawal from the Vietnam War. The war and its aftermath were a difficult chapter in our nation's history. It is well within living memory, and many of us know personally those who were deeply affected by the conflict.</para>
<para>Whenever the Vietnam War crosses my mind I immediately reflect on my own father, who served with the 7th Battalion of the Royal Australia Regiment. He served in Vietnam while he was engaged to my mother. He was lucky enough to return home to his family, but 521 young men just like him never got that opportunity. And many of those who did come back to Australia, including the more than 3,000 wounded, were made to feel ashamed, embarrassed and humiliated for their role in what became a deeply polarising war. History has proved their contribution right and necessary. What is no longer controversial is the bravery and sacrifice displayed by Australian soldiers and the admiration they deserve. I was grateful to attend a wreath-laying with the Naval Association of Western Australia at the City of Stirling to mark the 50th anniversary, and today I want to use this occasion to acknowledge the important, and often forgotten, contribution of the Royal Australian Navy.</para>
<para>As I chatted with some of the veterans and community volunteers after the formalities, I noted a perhaps underappreciated part of Australia's involvement in Vietnam. While the majority of the conflict was characterised by ground warfare featuring the use of helicopter strikes and chemical weapons, one part of the war that is less well known is the role of our Navy. The Royal Australian Navy sent several key vessels, including HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Perth</inline>, HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Sydney</inline>, HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Hobart</inline> and HMAS <inline font-style="italic">Brisbane</inline>, carrying 13,500 personnel, to Vietnam. The Navy undertook several other critical roles, including providing escort duties to convoys to and from Vietnam, and clearing sea mines for the safety of allied shipping vessels. A crucial role was its contribution to what became known as the Gun Line, where Australia provided destroyers on a rotational basis to the United States Navy's 7th Fleet for the purpose of bombarding enemy targets on land. This undertaking also expanded to Operation Sea Dragon, where, again, our naval assets joined American vessels in shelling North Vietnamese military targets and supply routes. And the Navy provided its Fleet Air Arm, which featured heavy use of the Bell UH-1 Iroquois helicopter. This is the model of helicopter depicted at the centrepiece of Australia's National Vietnam War Memorial on Anzac Parade, and was used by the Navy Fleet Air Arm to transport combat troops and supplies in air mobile operations.</para>
<para>At the tip of the spear of the Navy's story in Vietnam is the brave and exceptional operations of the Clearance Diving Team, whose motto is United and Undaunted. These elite forces completed some of the most dangerous undertakings of the conflict, which at the start of the war were mostly explosive ordnance disposal. They were required to check the hulls and anchors of ships for improvised explosives devices; salvage downed military helicopters; search villages for ammunition cachets; and demolish Viet Cong underground complexes. They later shifted to SEAL-type operations, fighting alongside American and South Vietnamese forces and finding themselves engaging the enemy in close quarters—often in death-defying circumstances.</para>
<para>Today I have described only a small portion of the Navy's legacy in Vietnam, but I hope to have emphasised the immense courage and determination of the Australian men and women who served in the Vietnam War on our vessels, in the air and on the land. As with all our Vietnam veterans, they deserve the deepest respect for the challenges they faced—and which some continue to face. In years to come, as the war slips further into the past, we have an obligation to remember their efforts and the spirit of Australia they represented there on those far-flung shores—the spirit of a free, democratic and prosperous nation that wished for a free, democratic and prosperous nation for other people.</para>
<para>The message Anthony Albanese tried to sell to Western Australians during his recent visit to Western Australia was that Labor supports our state, but nearly 18 months into this government many Western Australians are wondering where this supposed support has gotten them. In May 2022, then opposition leader Anthony Albanese got to his feet before a Perth crowd to launch his party's election campaign. He said that only Labor had a plan for a better future and pledged that Labor had real, lasting plans for cheaper mortgages. Nothing could now be further from the truth, because we now know that for Western Australians the terrible impact of Labor's cost-of-living crisis is possibly worse than for any other people in our country.</para>
<para>As though we need reminding, there have been 11 interest rate rises on the Albanese government's watch, with the central bank forced to do the work that Labor either won't do or can't do. More than 1,600 WA homebuyers are three months behind on their mortgage repayments. That is the highest rate in our country, according to data from the Reserve Bank of Australia. The same RBA data reveals that there are over 40,000 low-income mortgage holders in my home state of Western Australia spending more than 30 per cent of their household budget on repaying their loans. As a percentage, that rate is the second-worst in Australia.</para>
<para>Concerningly, it is our first home buyers who've been left most vulnerable to severe financial hardship under these circumstances. Eight in 10 fixed-rate loans in Western Australia will revert to variable rates during this year and next year. By the end of 2021, around 60 per cent of all first home lending was fixed, compared to 10 per cent. The fact the average WA home loan increased by nearly $100,000, to around $470,000, in the three years before the RBA started raising rates has put WA mortgage holders directly in the eye of this financial storm.</para>
<para>But it is not just mortgage holders who are now bearing the brunt. Renters are paying more under Anthony Albanese and Labor. New analysis done by my team shows low-income WA renters are now spending around two-thirds of their income to access an average rental property. While the median weekly rent has jumped from $370 in 2020 to $580 in 2023, the minimum wage has only grown from $753 to $863. This represents a ratio increase of 49 per cent to 67 per cent. Meanwhile, the percentage of income that an average WA worker spends on rent climbed from 20 per cent to more than 28 per cent between 2020 and 2023. These steps are all in the wrong direction and represent significant hardship for families and businesses in Western Australia.</para>
<para>Don't believe me, but you can trust the Salvation Army. The Salvation Army's Doorways Emergency Relief Survey confirmed this struggle, finding that 21 per cent of WA respondents had been unable to pay their mortgage repayments or rent on time in the past year. The national rate was just seven per cent. In fact, according to Anglicare WA, only one per cent of rents in our state are now affordable for a single parent with two children on the minimum wage. Renters have now joined mortgage holders as the victims of Labor's cost-of-living crisis in Western Australia.</para>
<para>Whether you are renting or in the process of buying your own home, which in WA represents about 60 per cent of the population, life has become almost unbearably difficult. It is a stark contradiction of Anthony Albanese's commitment in May 2022 to make life better. This is not the life Anthony Albanese and Labor told Western Australian voters they would have. Under his leadership, Labor is setting WA records for all the wrong reasons. The Prime Minister should spend less time trying to convince Western Australians to vote for the Voice to Parliament and instead focus on the mess he has created and the financial hardship he is inflicting on people. I implore him, on his next visit, to go and meet business leaders, go to mining sites and speak to the workers in our businesses and on our mining sites to get a real understanding of the terrible financial stress of Australia households.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister will soon land in Delhi, in India, to represent Australia at the G20. There is no doubt that Australia's relationship with India is the strongest it's ever been. The Indian diaspora in our country makes a tremendously valuable contribution. But today I ask the Prime Minister to speak with Prime Minister Modi—to find a fraction of his time in that discussion—to talk about the continuing conflict in Burma and about how the Indian government can do more to put pressure on the military regime to make sure that the violence and human rights abuses, particularly in the north-west of Burma, come to an abrupt end.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Se</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>nator HANSON (—) (): I rise to respond to the deceit and arrogance of the divisive 'yes' campaign for the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice to Parliament referendum. This was on full display yesterday with Noel Pearson's disgusting rant on a stream hosted by the <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline>newspaper. Pearson dismissed the uncounted Australian families struggling with Labor's cost-of-living crisis. He likened the referendum to Halley's Comet, of all things, saying it had no respect for inflation. He's essentially saying, 'Stuff the Australian people going hungry and homeless,' because giving Pearson racially exclusive power in the Constitution is far more important. He said Indigenous people in remote communities were also struggling but didn't say why. I'll tell you why they're struggling. It is because the elites and activists of the Aboriginal industry, like Pearson, are responsible for it. They are responsible for entrenching a disadvantage so their taxpayer gravy train can keep going.</para>
<para>What Australians are really being asked at this referendum is to enshrine this corrupt gravy train in the Constitution so it can never be removed. After billions of dollars per year and over $1 trillion in total over decades, with the gaps as wide as ever, Indigenous Australians are still languishing in poverty and violence in the economic dead ends that are remote communities. The Voice will not be the different approach that will close the gaps. It will be more of the same failure and corruption, stuck in the Constitution for all time.</para>
<para>Pearson repeated the claim that the race power in the Constitution could discriminate against Aboriginal people. I'd like to see an example of that today. If anything, it discriminates against non-Indigenous people. It enables laws supporting native title, for one, as well as the many billions of dollars flowing uselessly to close the gaps. With breathtaking irony, Pearson said race was an outdated concept. Section 51(xxvi) permits this parliament to make special laws 'for members of a race for whom it is deemed necessary'. Pearson said that, with this power, 'It's only right to talk to Indigenous Australians.' He's not wrong, except for decades now that is precisely what has happened, and Pearson has been heavily involved in this process along with other voice campaigners. The failure to close the gaps lies at his feet, those of his fellow elites and those of the thousands of Indigenous corporations, charities and land councils preying on the Australian taxpayer.</para>
<para>More importantly, the race power could just be repealed. The parliament would then not have the power to make special laws based on race—laws which Pearson said could be discriminatory and which Marcia Langton said could harm Indigenous people. I'm supremely confident a referendum to get rid of the race power would enjoy as much support as the 1967 referendum. Equal laws for all and special laws for none. Equal rights for all and special rights for none. That would be true equality for all Australians and would eliminate a constitutional power based on a concept Pearson said was outdated. At the same referendum, we should also repeal section 25, a dead letter giving this parliament the power to disqualify races from voting. It's offensive and should not be in the Constitution.</para>
<para>Enough is enough. This is not the 19th century, and Australia is no longer a bunch of British colonies in which Indigenous people are treated so poorly. This is the 21st century and Australia is a modern nation which is completely inclusive of Indigenous people. The development of this nation has brought wealth, technology, institutions, democracy and civilisation to Indigenous Australians, who were a Stone Age culture in 1788. Most Indigenous people have embraced this modern society and enjoy the same empowerment, agency and prosperity that comes with it. Pearson is one of them. So are the elite extremists like Megan Davis, Thomas Mayo and Marcia Langton. Marcia Langton has promised no more welcomes to country if the Australian people reject the Voice. I can't think of a better reason to vote no, except for one. We're all human, all Australian, and we must be united rather than forever divided by race.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Constitution: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice, Lawler, Mr Geoffrey Grahame, Morgan, Ms Margaret, Navarro, Mr Alfredo</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a broader contribution to make, but that contribution causes me to reflect on a few other things. There is, of course, a conservative case for yes, and it's articulated by people like the various Liberal state leaders and by Senator Bragg. There is a conservative case for no, and I've listened intently as people like Senator Dean Smith and Senator Paterson have made that case. The problem with what Senator Hanson just said is that it represents the takeover of conservative politics by US-style far-right extremism. That is what she just did here. She's done it over and over again with her friends Mr Mundine and others on the Liberal Party backbench. That articulation is very divisive, very unhelpful and very incorrect. It corrodes the heart of modern conservative politics, which we should actually care about in this place for a healthy two-party government system. That's what people should reflect on when listening to that contribution.</para>
<para>I want to say a few things about three country members of the Labor party and the Labor movement who've passed away recently. The truth is that the modern Labor party and Labor movement were founded in the country, in Bourke and Barcaldine, as much as they were on the Sydney waterfront and in the industrial economy of Sydney and Melbourne. I was very sorry to hear of the death of a wonderful trade unionist and champion of workers from rural New South Wales, Geoff Lawler, in July of this year. He was a friend of mine. He was born in the Hunter Valley on 19 June 1950, and he worked tirelessly in country New South Wales for decades as an official of the old Miscellaneous Workers Union, now the United Workers Union. Country union organisers stick together. So it was with the Wagga Wagga and District Trades and Labour Council, and Geoff, as the president, kept that show together for many years not only in a formal leadership role but also because he led by example. He was a principled, decent man who was loyal to working-class Australians and his members, and, above all, he was a kind man. My friend Daren McDonald got it right when he said, 'As the voice of so many working people in the bush, Geoff, you can rest easy knowing that you never betrayed your class—the working class.' I want to send my deepest condolences to Geoff's wife, Yvonne, and their children, Scott, Justine and Steven.</para>
<para>Margaret Morgan was the president of the Oxley state electorate council and the local federal electorate council, and the secretary, for many, many years. She passed away this week after a long illness. She was the campaign manager for Susan Jenvey when she recently ran for the state seat of Oxley. Margaret stood for local government in 2016 and narrowly missed becoming a councillor by just a few votes. She was branch secretary of the Macleay branch for well over a decade and, prior to that, was an active member in Taree. She fought strongly for women-run domestic violence shelters in her region, both in Kempsey and Taree. Margaret had strong connections to the Indigenous community, the Kempsey neighbourhood and not-for-profit disability organisations. She was a big contributor in her community, and she will be deeply missed at her funeral this Friday and beyond.</para>
<para>Sadly, another branch member in that area, Alfredo Navarro, passed away very suddenly over the last few days. He died suddenly while on holidays in Spain with his partner. Alfredo was a much loved person in the Coffs Harbour branch. He ran a very spirited but difficult campaign as a candidate for Cowper in that very tough election in 2013. He had worked as an organiser for the United Workers Union. He was formerly a home-care worker and trainer in the home-care sector. He became a rank-and-file organiser of that union and then became an official of the New South Wales Nurses and Midwives Association. He was a big character. He was a very kind man. He was deeply loved in the Labor Party and in his local community.</para>
<para>I pay tribute to all three of those great activists in the Labor movement in New South Wales.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Road Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to talk about something that I hear constantly in the emergency management space as I travel around the state and, indeed, the nation. I point to a joint media release from February this year from the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government, Catherine King, and the Minister for Emergency Management, Murray Watt. At the time, I was very comforted to read:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Regional Road and Transport Recovery Package means roads can be not just rebuilt, but also improved to withstand future extreme natural weather events.</para></quote>
<para>That message was welcomed across districts and local government areas that had suffered the tragedy of natural disasters, particularly over the last few years. Building back better is a constant theme that I hear from flood affected areas and from bushfire prone areas from councils and local governments. Local governments know only too well the difficulties they have in applying for grants, particularly when there is no scope to ensure that a certain bridge or road isn't better protected from future disaster.</para>
<para>In meetings with organisations such as the Australian Local Government Association after the introduction of the revamped Disaster Ready Fund, which I supported, and in hearings of the Senate Select Committee on Australia's Disaster Resilience, the build back better concept is an oft repeated phrase, one that goes to the heart of the need of communities to embrace disaster-resilience strategies.</para>
<para>A case in point about the necessity of building back better is the Nyrang bridge between Canowindra and Eugowra in the central west of New South Wales, which I visited in the last few weeks. I saw firsthand the folly of what happens when there is no opportunity to build back better. This bridge has been washed away a couple of times in recent years. The bridge that I saw was a central crossing surrounded by two massive gaping holes in the roadway. It was very lucky that no-one died in the most recent wash away. The ABC reported at the time:</para>
<quote><para class="block">People in two cars had lucky escapes when a bridge they were driving over collapsed in floodwaters in New South Wales.</para></quote>
<para>The first, a utility, fell into the water as the Nyrang Creek Bridge gave out. The driver was taken to Orange hospital and a passenger managed to climb out. A second car following the ute had no time to stop. The driver was forced to think quickly and rev his car to try and jump the collapsing bridge, almost reminiscent of an Evel Knievel stunt or an action movie. This car, with a baby and a four-year-old in it, fortunately landed with only four flat tyres and, clearly, a car full of very scared passengers. Had there been capacity to build back better the first time this bridge collapsed, this accident might not have occurred.</para>
<para>We need to do better. We need to allow local governments to look at better reinforcement, better design and better construction. We need to allow them the capacity to design and build to what we are all now acknowledging will be an increase in extreme events into the future. This particular road carries a lot of traffic, including grain trucks going to the local GrainCorp depot. Currently, as the road is out of commission, those grain trucks have to take an extra one to two hours on their trip to deliver their grain.</para>
<para>I remind Minister King and Minister Watt of their February press release, and I remind them of their commitment to projects that will make a difference in the long term. I do acknowledge that Minister Watt has said all the right things in this area. I implore them to get the guidelines out to enable councils to commence building back better instead of just repairing roads. I implore them to get moving with those guidelines.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Mental Health</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to talk about a challenge in Australia that we aren't speaking about enough: the declining state of mental health among young people. If you talk to primary school teachers, you'll hear endless stories of the challenges that young people are facing when it comes to their mental health. The ABS National Study of Mental Health and Wellbeing released in 2022 found that almost 40 per cent of young people—that's two in five people aged from 16 to 24—had experienced a mental health issue. That's up 50 per cent since 2007. The feedback I've received from mental health services is that that is probably understated. What they're seeing is an increasing trend of younger and younger people coming through their doors—sometimes as young as four years old. The Australian Psychological Society say that their members are reporting a sharp increase in anxiety disorders among children aged from 18 months to five years old and, among young people aged from 13 to 18, they are seeing a worrying increase in depression, anxiety and suicidality.</para>
<para>With these kinds of statistics, it's no surprise that hospital clinicians are also sounding the alarm. While an update to the official data is expected next month, clinicians are warning me that they are seeing young people coming to hospital sicker than ever before. Our system simply is not working if we are seeing an influx of people with mental illness into our hospitals. Hospitals should be and are the last port of call. They are not places to heal; they are places to be stabilised. From speaking with people in my community, the experience of people in acute mental health units can often be a traumatic one.</para>
<para>Most adult mental health disorders begin when people are young, often in that crucial time as people are transitioning to adulthood. Early intervention in these years can and does make a difference in the life course of people and their relationships with mental health. While we made strides in supporting mental health care in the primary system, there is still so much to do, and the system is clearly not coping.</para>
<para>Over the past few weeks, my team and I have been speaking with the mental health sector to understand what is going on and how we could improve the system to better support young people. From these early conversations, it's clear we are facing significant workforce challenges as well as issues with cost and accessibility. We're not training enough mental health providers, and we're also not utilising some providers to the best of their capabilities. GPs are also not funded to provide mental health care, despite this now representing one of the most common presentations from patients. General practice is also under constant financial pressure, and the current Medicare structure doesn't remunerate GPs sufficiently for them to provide mental health care. In speaking with one ACT GP, I heard how she spent hours on a weekend speaking with a patient who was in crisis and searching for a bed in an inpatient facility. Most of this time calling around facilities on a weekend was not patient-facing time, so at the end of the day, after hours and hours of work on a weekend, all she could bill was $37.</para>
<para>There is also clearly a missing middle in the system, a gap for people requiring more extensive early intervention in the primary care system to keep them healthy and out of hospital.</para>
<para>This is an issue I intend to investigate further. The risk of doing nothing or tinkering around the edges is that we lose an entire generation to mental illness and consign people to a poor quality of life. This is an area where we need to be bold for the sake of our young people and the next generation. It is on us to come up with programs and interventions to assist young people. We must focus on and invest in early intervention so we don't see people turn up to emergency and clog up the hospital system. There are many programs in our communities that are doing great work, but they struggle year to year with 12-month funding. This is something that we can and must change.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Financial Transactions</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have some great news to share with the Australian people. Your actions are making an impact; cash is coming back. New figures from the RBA show that withdrawals from ATMs have been rising. They were up 1.6 per cent in May and June this year. ATM withdrawals have halved in the past decade but have remained steady since 2021. The tide has, hopefully, turned, and people may be starting to realise the importance of cash. Electronic transactions are not free—far from it. Jason Bryce from Cash Welcome says that average households could be paying about $1,500 a year in card surcharges if they tap their phone or their card for everything. Every time you transact, the banks take a cut. The banksters are happy as a pig in you-know-what. Their pockets are full, while the working class wonder where all their money has gone.</para>
<para>Too many in this place believe that a cashless society will be convenient. I would argue that the transition to a wholly digital and cashless economy is dangerous and something that we should resist, as convenience always comes at a cost. A cashless society, where there is no cash at all, will disadvantage the elderly, many of whom still rely on cash for their daily transactions. It will disadvantage those living in remote communities who lack access to digital financial services. It will disadvantage victims of abuse, who might have limited access to online financial services. It will disadvantage people in emergency situations where the internet is knocked out, as cash would obviously allow people to continue to trade.</para>
<para>There are other considerations, such as: how do you teach kids the value of money when money is basically invisible? Cash drives community. What will become of markets, garage sales, honesty boxes and charity buckets—even Facebook Marketplace and the ability for a young entrepreneur to mow a neighbour's lawn for 10 bucks? Arguably worst of all, digital banking makes people wholly trackable and hackable by the states. Do we really want an economy in which every transaction is tracked? Do we really want to live in a world in which someone can't buy a pencil without the government and the big banks potentially knowing about it? One person's transparency is another's surveillance. Do we really want a society in which our ID and assets could be stripped from us with a single keystroke? Is this really how we will define safety?</para>
<para>There are those who may well push for us to eliminate cash. Let's make sure that their calls fall on deaf ears. In this place, we do not represent the global elites and their global financial schemes. We represent mums, dads, isolated workers, the elderly and the disadvantaged. We represent people who should be free to trade without the all-seeing eye of the state scrutinising every purchase. We represent freedom, and cash is freedom. I say to the Australian people: continue to use your cash. Take out a little bit more next week, perhaps, and help to preserve this freedom. To the businesses out there: I urge you to accept cash. Cash is, of course, legal tender, and you will lose business if you refuse. I urge the government to show their support for freedom by showing support for cash.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party are out of touch with modern Australia. While Australians are suffering with high electricity prices thanks to 'Blackout' Bowen, higher mortgage and rental repayments, higher costs for their groceries and petrol and higher insurance premiums the three big-ticket items the Labor Party are focusing on are: one, a divisive Canberra Voice; two, a misinformation bill to censor what Australians can say; and, three, a fair work bill that wants to bring our industrial relations back to the knee-capping trade unionists of the 1970s. Good priorities, Labor Party!</para>
<para>The Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Closing Loopholes ) Bill 2023 gives union thugs the right to bust into businesses, including small businesses, without any notice whenever they believe there is a risk of so-called wage underpayment. What loophole does this close? This bill will give union thugs the power to go through the finances and employee registers of businesses. There's no minimal requirement for what evidence they need to go through this information. It can just be a suspicion. This is completely ridiculous.</para>
<para>Prime Minister, Australians are hurting right now. Queenslanders are hurting right now. Queenslanders are desperate for a federal government that will listen to them, that will help them and that will reduce their grocery bills, power prices and rent payments. But the Labor Party are all about wanting to help their donors, and their donors are the union movement. This is all about the Labor Party repaying the unions, who bankrolled their election campaign. The coalition wants to help Australians. The coalition wants to help Queenslanders. The Labor Party just wants to help itself.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to talk about the need for a fair deal and a level playing field for road transport workers, small transport companies and owner-drivers right across this country. The crisis faced by transport workers in this country has led to hundreds of businesses being forced to close their doors and led to workers leaving the industry or, worse, dying on our roads. Transport workers deserve better, and they deserve a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.</para>
<para>Today I met with transport workers and business operators struggling to stay afloat in an industry under increasing pressure. I met with James Scott, an employee driver. James is a father of three from my home state of Tasmania who has worked in the road transport industry for 20 years. One of the things he wants changed is the creeping in of lower safety standards for drivers. This is happening because of gig workers and the standards accepted by Uber and other drive-sharing and delivery companies.</para>
<para>Most recently we heard of the sickening incident and death of Burak Dogan, a gig economy worker. The 30-year-old student and Uber Eats rider was struck by a truck. At the same time he laid dead, stuck under the wheel, he received two further delivery requests from the app. I commend the Transport Workers Union and its national secretary Michael Kaine for advocating for this man's family, who rightly deserve compensation.</para>
<para>The transport industry can no longer afford to be pushing down wages and leaving the industry at breaking point. This is why the Albanese government this week introduced reforms to give the Fair Work Commission the power to set minimum standards for hundreds of thousands of employee-like workers on digital platforms and apps. There is nothing more important than safety and fairness in this country, and we will stand up for those workers each and every day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Myanmar</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-J</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>OHN () (): I'm proud to share with the Senate that the Australian Greens have updated our position in response to the ongoing humanitarian and political crisis that continues to occur in Myanmar. Last year the Australian Greens were one of the first political parties globally to recognise the national unity government as the only legitimate government of Myanmar. According to the United Nations, there are currently 1.6 million people displaced across Myanmar, 17.6 million people in need and 70,000 civilian properties have been burnt or destroyed by the junta since the February 2021 coup. The humanitarian response remains largely underfunded, with only 17 per cent of required funding received by mid-2023. What is worse is that Australia has imported over $3.5 million worth of products from companies linked to members of the Myanmar military junta, including arms and ammunition.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens continue to hear the people of Myanmar's call for assistance. We will support you in your struggle for freedom and for democracy. We will always champion your rights and your freedoms. We are calling for an immediate increase to the targeted sanctions on organisations involved in continued funding of the military; for diplomatic isolation of the junta, particularly from ASEAN forums; for an immediate increase in humanitarian aid provided through a humanitarian corridor; and for the Australian government to call on its allies in the Security Council to table and vote on a follow-up resolution for Myanmar that includes mechanisms to enable full, safe and unhindered humanitarian access to all the peoples of Myanmar.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Child Protection Week</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LIDDLE</name>
    <name.id>300644</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>'Where we start matters.' This is an important message, and it's the theme of this year's National Child Protection Week. Not for one week or year but each and every single day we must all play a part in maximising what we do in protecting children in families, in communities, in workplaces and in this parliament. Child maltreatment is endemic. Six in 10 Australians have experienced at least one type of child maltreatment. Early and persistent harm is rife. It can have lifelong consequences. Forty-six thousand children are in out-of-home care, including—a woeful overrepresentation—20,000 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children.</para>
<para>Given the theme 'Where we start matters', the Albanese government might begin with prioritising where it focuses its attention and resources. Focusing on this no-compromise, risky, divisive, unknown and permanent proposition that is the Voice at this time of a cost-of-living crisis creates greater risk for those doing it toughest, because poverty and economic and social exclusion are well-trodden pathways to child abuse and neglect. We know that. Imagine what corporate and philanthropic donations could have done if deployed to preventing issues that become ones of child protection. Just imagine.</para>
<para>Prevention is key. We need to support parents, children and carers to identify escalating risk and stop the trajectory to protect our and their futures. Parents must be part of this. I applaud the very recent finalisation of the national action plan to end family violence, intended to end violence within a generation. Prevention is key to this target. If a child has reached the attention of the child protection system, we have already failed them. The red flags are clear, and we need to remain focused on stopping it before it starts, because where we start actually matters.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Leaders Internet Governance and Policy Fellowship, Australian Constitution: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEWART</name>
    <name.id>299352</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week I launched the Indigenous Leaders Internet Governance and Policy Fellowship at Australia's Internet Governance Community Forum, NetThing. The fellowship encourages First Nations Australians to become involved in internet governance at an exciting time in the world of technology policy. Over the last 12 months, we have seen generative AI enter the mainstream, which has changed the way we learn and work. Although these advancements come with lots of promises, they also compound a range of risks. In the context of First Nations people, the lack of digital inclusion continues to be a significant risk. According to the 2023 Australian Digital Inclusion Index, there is a considerable gap of 7½ points between Indigenous and non-Indigenous people in Australia. The gap is even more pronounced in remote First Nations communities.</para>
<para>In this context, encouraging multistakeholder governance is seen as an integral part of creating inclusive solutions. Multistakeholder governance just means having a diverse range of voices to inform the development of governance. At its heart, this principle enables anyone who may be impacted by a structure to inform it and shape it. This is also the principle which underlies the referendum on a Voice to Parliament on 14 October. The referendum on the Voice is the culmination of a longstanding invitation directly from First Nations leaders across the country and not politicians. A successful referendum will lead to better policies and improve the lives of First Nations people. In the world of technology policy, we know that better inputs lead to better outputs. The same is true when it comes to bringing practical change to First Nations communities. So let's make it happen on 14 October.</para>
<para>In wrapping up, I want to say a big 'congratulations' to Susan Beeton, Dr Jenny Fraser and Rory Chapman on being selected as fellows.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Title</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about the inequality imposed by the Labor government on respondents to native title claims. Redland City Council in Queensland is dealing with a massive native title claim involving about 3½ thousand properties owned or managed on behalf of ratepayers. The council is acting with the greatest of goodwill and the best of intentions towards the Quandamooka Coast native title claimants. It's seeking clarification from the Federal Court about whether native title is extinguished on any of these thousands of properties. It's a process which could take many years and is going to cost a great deal of money. But, while the Albanese Labor government is supporting the native title claimants with funding for legal costs, Redland City Council is not so fortunate. Its ratepayers will be forced to pay millions of dollars addressing the claim because Labor has abolished the Native Title Respondents Funding Scheme.</para>
<para>It's another example of the many inequities this government supports instead of treating all Australians equally. I spoke of this racial inequality during my first federal campaign in 1996. I was stating a fact, speaking on behalf of millions of disgruntled Australians, and for this I was kicked out of the Liberal Party. Thank goodness for that! Criticism isn't racism, and facts don't go away just because you're uncomfortable with them. Redland ratepayers, like communities across Australia, are struggling with Labor's record energy bills and cost-of-living crisis. They can't afford this. Labor must reinstate the respondent funding scheme or, better still, as a small step towards racial equality in Australia, they should put a stop to these federally funded claims being able to be made. This is not affecting just the Redland shire; this is happening all over Queensland. The funding that's put towards it is about $71 million over the next five years for these Aboriginal claimants, and yet there's not a cent for any Australian to defend themselves. It's disgusting.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Streetwork Australia</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to take this time to quickly acknowledge the wonderful contributions that Streetwork Australia have made over the past two years in helping young Australians reclaim their lives from the adversity that they've faced. This NGO has been the lead agency for a collaborative program under the Safer Communities Fund early intervention grant on behalf of the Department of Home Affairs. The crucial work Streetwork has been doing has seen a preservation in the safety of Australians through funding local crime prevention activities that address antisocial behaviour by youth at high risk. It has helped marginalised youth at high risk between the ages of 12 and 24 to develop life skills, including educational and vocational skills, to prevent them from becoming entrenched in the criminal justice system and to promote inclusion and community resilience. Already, the program has increased the life satisfaction of its participants by 20 per cent and improved education outcomes by 80 per cent for those who had education related challenges, and 82 per cent of young people have not reoffended while in the program. It cares for, educates, encourages and supports kids to make the right choices, because it doesn't write them off. In turn, it means the risk of recidivism is drastically reduced.</para>
<para>We can learn a lot from Streetwork, and it's a beautiful thing that it exists to be the voice of the marginalised in its advocacy to government. As a former board member, I note that unfortunately the funding is due to sunset on 30 April 2024. Streetwork has conducted its work on $1.4 million over a two-year period. Supporting our youth, seeing them reach their potential and making communities safer are things we should all support.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the last parliament, the Senate Select Committee on Job Security, chaired by Senator Sheldon, heard from workers in Central Queensland about the impact of labour hire in the mining industry. Rob had worked with one mining company for 14 years in a permanent role. He said that one day the company told the permanent workers that they would need to be moved onto a labour hire contract. Rob was told that he would be doing the same job but on a casual contract at half the pay. Chad from Rockhampton had been working in the coalmining industry as a labour hire worker for 10 years when he gave evidence to the committee. He said that, despite working the same rosters and the same shifts as the permanent workers in his crew, he was paid much less and had no job security. This is a common story I've heard as I've been travelling in Central Queensland and elsewhere in regional Queensland since being elected as a senator. The Liberals and Nationals, when they were in government, let labour hire run rampant in industries like this across Queensland and across Australia. Despite hearing from Rob and Chad himself, Senator Canavan called the problem a 'Labor lie' in the interim report of the job security inquiry.</para>
<para>Miners and their families in central Queensland know that this is their reality. Being stuck on an insecure contract with lower wages means these workers can't convince a bank to give them a home loan or a car loan. They can't go out of town or take time off work, because they're often on call and don't have any leave entitlements. That's why at the last election we made a commitment to enshrine same job, same pay into law and this week we have taken the next step to deliver on that commitment. Our bill will close the labour hire loophole that is keeping wages low and having a negative impact on families and communities. We know the opposition and their form. They see no problem with low wages and these insecure arrangements. The question will now be for those on the crossbench, particularly crossbench senators like those from One Nation. Are they going to stand up and support workers as the Albanese Labor government is committed to doing?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Fearmongering about climate change in schools and in the media is nothing short of child abuse. A study published in the <inline font-style="italic">Lancet</inline> about climate anxiety in children and young people surveyed 10,000 people aged from 16 to 25 years in 10 countries, including Australia. Everywhere, they were miserable and fearful. Three-quarters said that the future is frightening; 60 per cent were very worried or extremely worried about climate change; and more than 50 per cent reported feeling sad, anxious, angry, powerless and guilty.</para>
<para>Climate alarmists should be ashamed. Not only do they exaggerate and mislead about the facts but they cancel anyone who corrects or questions them. Take Dr John Clauser, the Nobel Prize laureate for physics in 2022. He was scheduled to present a seminar on climate models to the IMF in July, but his talk was 'postponed' after he said he didn't believe there is a climate crisis. Dr Clauser won the Nobel Prize for groundbreaking experiments with light particles, which have paved the way for quantum computing. You would think that, if someone this brilliant says that there is a problem with climate models, we should sit up and take at least some notice. But no. According to the activists, the science is, as we keep hearing, settled. Let me tell you something: science is never settled. It's always changing and it's always moving. If they had their way, these activists would have cancelled Albert Einstein's theory of relativity because the science was settled with Isaac Newton. Enough with the fear. Carbon is just plant food. Carbon is the very building block of life. People at home, you are the carbon that they want to reduce.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Manuka Honey</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHANDLER</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of one of Australia's and Tasmania's fantastic premium produce industries, the Australian manuka honey industry. Australian manuka honey is an amazing product. Not only is it delicious but it has unique antimicrobial properties which mean it is used as a wound dressing and to counteract other infections including skin conditions, sore throats and even gastric upsets. Australian manuka honey—and, might I say, particularly Tasmanian manuka honey—is prized right around the world for its quality and its taste.</para>
<para>Many senators in this place would be aware of the attempts made by New Zealand to block Australian producers from using the name 'manuka', which was a long battle that our Australian industry won earlier this year. Unfortunately, that is not necessarily the end of the matter, because, as part of their campaign to protect their own brands, New Zealand producers have heavily campaigned against Australian manuka honey, including by making incorrect claims that Australian honey is an inferior product or somehow fake. That campaign has unfairly damaged the reputation of Australian manuka honey in key markets like the United Kingdom, which is not only extremely unfair but enormously damaging to Australian manuka honey producers.</para>
<para>In addition to that, I am advised that New Zealand will not allow the importation of Australian manuka honey, yet New Zealand producers can import their product to Australia. In recent years, New Zealand producers have undertaken what Australian producers believe amounts to the dumping of their excess stock in Australia, causing a significant price collapse of our own honey products. I'm sure that all senators agree that our fantastic manuka honey producers across the country, and particularly in my home state of Tasmania should be treated fairly by New Zealand. Competition is fine, but unfair practices which damage our industry are not.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Huon She Shed</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Men's sheds are important to our communities. They're a place for men to build friendships and find a shoulder to lean on. I've visited many of the ones across Tassie, and I'd like to give a shout-out to my Uncle John and Ulverstone men's shed. I know first hand the good work that they can do.</para>
<para>I recently visited Huon Valley, where a group of women are working hard to set up a she shed in the area. A lot of these women are in a similar age group to me. Some of them are women who have had relationship breakdowns later in life, women who live alone and women who have experienced domestic violence. The she shed gives them a safe place to call their own and to develop a support network. It focuses on upskilling women—things like learning how to use power tools, do basic home maintenance and how to change a tyre. The Huon Valley group has had almost 700 women register their interest in being a member of the shed, which shows the demand for a space like this in Huon Valley, but the shed can't take on numbers and can't open unless there are spaces fit for purpose, and because they're a she shed, and not a men's shed, they're unable to access the same grant funding to get the shed ready. I think that whether it's a men's shed, a she shed or a community shed, there should be equal opportunity for funding. It's a lot of sheds, isn't it?</para>
<para>I don't want the pool of funding for men's sheds to decrease—they do important work in the space of men's mental health and wellbeing, a space I think we often ignore—but the Tasmanian government should ensure that equal access is available to grants for all sheds.</para>
<para>The she shed project in Huon Valley is going to be a lifeline for many women. They should have the same opportunity to make it happen as the men's sheds, and I'm going to join a she shed when we've got one in Ulverstone.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Glenorchy War Memorial Pool</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the late 1950s, local leaders, veterans and the community of Glenorchy in Hobart came together to fight for a local pool. The northern suburbs of Hobart were growing, filling fast with hydro workers and their families. Their leaders, many of them veterans, came together to lobby the council and the state government. The community ran raffles, baked cakes and got pledges from local businesses, and in the early 1960s the Glenorchy War Memorial Pool was opened—the community had won—and it had been built in record time. The pool commemorates Tasmanians who have served in wars, and in 1964, plaques were placed on the diving blocks.</para>
<para>A few months ago Glenorchy City Council announced they were temporarily closing the pool due to safety concerns. The council says it will take $30 million to fix the pool The councillors and the mayor told the community they could go to the aquatic centre that is 'only ten minutes' up the road. It's a lot more than that if you don't have a car. It's not near a bus stop, and there is limited parking. It's also always booked on most weekends. When a community member made an impassioned plea to save the pool she was told by a councillor 'not to romanticise the pool or dwell on the past'. What a slap in the face.</para>
<para>Glenorchy council says they've applied for Commonwealth grants with no luck. I'd like to know how many they have actually applied for. Local community pools are important. The Royal Life Saving Society says that for every dollar invested in a regional pool the social return is $2, not to mention the benefits from teaching kids to swim and in lowering drowning rates.</para>
<para>A week ago, locals were told the closure was permanent. Then yesterday the state government announced they were giving the council 200 grand for a business study on a pool precinct. That's interesting. It wouldn't have anything to do with an early state election would it? They are expanding the seat count in the Tasmanian parliament, and I reckon the Libs are worried about that. My message to the Glenorchy community is simply this: keep fighting hard. You have Andrew Wilkie behind you and you also have the Jacqui Lambie Network right beside you.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Trafficking</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week, in London, I had the honour of speaking at the Parliamentary Intelligence-Security Forum and I participated in a panel on human trafficking. Firstly, I congratulate Congressman Robert Pittenger and Anne Basham for bringing trafficking and slavery into the security forum. In my speech I underscored the connections between national security, human trafficking and slavery. These issues are inextricably linked, but they are not often discussed together, and certainly not yet actioned together, but they should be. National security today is truly multidimensional, and all dimensions need to be addressed together. Not only did the forum address slavery and human trafficking but it also addressed supply chains, critical minerals and new energy technologies.</para>
<para>Together with like-minded friends, Australians have fought many wars to preserve democratic freedoms and individual liberties; however, we are not yet fighting together for freedom from slavery for millions of men, women and children who produce the goods we now rely on. Nations, like China, are selling us goods—for our wind turbines, solar panels, electric batteries, cars, phones, tablets and even joint strike fighters—with components that are riddled with the slave labour of millions of the world's most vulnerable people, including children, but still, as a nation, we are turning a blind eye. I believe it is incumbent upon us all, particularly here in this place, to deal simultaneously with security and slavery issues, and to ensure that our clean energy technologies, defence materiel and particularly the goods and services that we rely on, are slavery free.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Biosecurity</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A few weeks ago I had the pleasure of visiting the Centre of Excellence for Biosecurity Risk Analysis, located at the University of Melbourne. I met with CEBRA's CEO, Andrew Robinson, and his great team. They gave me and my adviser a thorough overview of the work that they do. CEBRA is jointly funded by the Australian government and the New Zealand government, in collaboration with the University of Melbourne. It informs data-driven responses to biosecurity threats. It was great to get some insights into the model they use to analyse biosecurity risks across the country.</para>
<para>The work done by the team at CEBRA is important. We were all reminded of this recently with the overseas outbreaks of foot-and-mouth disease and lumpy skin disease, in particular the threat that these diseases pose to our agriculture industry. Earlier this week the Senate considered and passed the Biosecurity Amendment (Advanced Compliance Measures) Bill 2023. The bill demonstrates the government's commitment to keeping Australian lives and industries safe from biosecurity threats. Much of the fight to keep Australia safe is fought beyond our borders. That's why our bill ensures that Commonwealth officers have access to the information they need to assess the biosecurity risk associated with travellers and goods.</para>
<para>As global food security is threatened by fragile supply chains and climate change, it is critical that we protect the stability and productivity of our agriculture industry. That's why it's so important that places like CEBRA are supported to continue the good work that they do and why governments should continue to take a proactive approach to biosecurity, as we did earlier this week.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Forestry Industry</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm speaking today, devastated by the recent news that an endangered greater glider was found dead only 70 kilometres south of parliament, in the Tallaganda State Forest in south-east New South Wales after its forest home was destroyed by logging. It was killed by industrial scale and style clear-fell logging. The forest was logged and destroyed, recklessly, by the Forestry Corporation of NSW until that state's Environment Protection Agency ordered an immediate stop to operations after repeated calls from conservation groups, forest activists, local community members and the Greens.</para>
<para>I am thankful that the agency intervened, but the harm done by the New South Wales government-owned logging agency cannot be underestimated or undone. Over the last 20 years, the numbers of greater gliders, which used to be common and are now endangered, have declined by up to 80 per cent in some areas due to logging, land clearing and the devastating impacts of the climate crisis. Research has described the Tallaganda forest as one of the only places where this species is still dominant, and conservationists have identified the forest as a priority area for greater glider recovery. But, despite the significance of this forest—because it provides habitat for the greater glider and other endangered species, because it is unceded country for traditional owners, because of its role in soaking up and storing carbon and because it is a destination for hikers, mountain bikers and keen birdwatchers—our national environment laws failed to stop the initial destruction of the Tallaganda.</para>
<para>From Errinundra in Victoria to the Tarkine in Tasmania and the Jarrah Forest of Western Australia, our national environment laws have allowed for decades of reckless destruction of native forests across Australia. They've allowed for threatened species to hurtle towards extinction. Labor, it is up to you. You can end this destruction. You can end native forest logging across the country. You can and you must do it now.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There being only 10 seconds available for Senator Cadell to speak, we will move to question time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTRY</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>MINISTRY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Temporary Arrangements</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I advise the Senate of changes to ministerial arrangements. Senator Wong will be absent from question time today and tomorrow on account of ministerial business overseas. In Senator Wong's absence, I will be the acting Leader of the Government in the Senate and ministers will represent portfolios at question time in accordance with the letter circulated to the President, party leaders and independent senators.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>44</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal And Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Senator Gallagher. I refer article in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> headlined 'Warring Indigenous groups unite against voice'. Is the minister aware of the increasing number of Indigenous Australians who do not support the Albanese Labor government's proposal?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Nampijinpa Price for the question. I apologise that I haven't read that article in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline>, but I am aware that the Uluru Statement from the Heart was agreed to by a broad range of First Nations communities across Australia. I also accept that there are First Nations Australians, like you, who are opposed to the referendum and opposed to the Voice. We have never pretended otherwise. But we do believe that the vast majority of First Nations Australians and, through them, their representative organisations are supportive of the referendum, are supportive of a constitutionally enshrined voice and support the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which was agreed to in 2017.</para>
<para>The government has listened to the representations from First Nations Australians around the call in the Uluru statement, which was for constitutional recognition of the history of this country and that that recognition be enshrined through a voice to our national parliament. That is what the referendum's about, and on 14 October every one of us and every Australian who is eligible to vote will be able to cast their vote for or against that proposal. We are responding to a call from First Nations people to put that referendum to a vote, and we will be supporting that vote. We will be voting 'yes' for that because we believe it will drive better outcomes and it will provide the appropriate recognition, through our country's birth certificate, of the long and proud history of this country that started before 1770.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Nampijinpa Price, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So you haven't read the article. The article states—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right and my left! Senator Nampijinpa Price, please continue. Start at the beginning and reset the clock.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. The article states of the Tasmanian Aboriginal Centre and the Circular Head Aboriginal Corporation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The two groups are often at loggerheads—over Aboriginal identity, voting rights and land access—but are in furious agreement on one issue: the voice is no good.</para></quote>
<para>Why does the Anthony Albanese government continue to state this is a proposal supported by Indigenous Australians when it is clearly not the case?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>GALLAGHER (—) (): The Albanese government is responding to a call from a broad range of First Nations Australians and their organisations. I have never said, and the government has never said—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher will resume her seat. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think anyone has said that there is 100 per cent agreement on any issue in this country. I don't think anyone has said that. But we are saying that the vast majority of First Nations organisations do support it. I wonder whether there is 100 per cent agreement over there for Peter Dutton's second referendum.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order across the chamber! The start to yesterday's question time was quite disgraceful. It was disorderly and disrespectful. I don't want to see a repeat of that behaviour today, and it's up to every senator in this place to be responsible for your own behaviour. Minister Gallaher, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senato</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was merely saying: I wonder if there is 100 per cent agreement over there on Peter Dutton's idea of a second referendum. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Nampijinpa Price, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the writs are yet to be issued for the referendum, and it's not too late to change course. With a growing number of Indigenous Australians and other Australians deciding to oppose the Albanese Labor government's proposal, why won't the government abandon its proposal and instead put forward something unifying and also take real action on the issues impacting our most marginalised Australians?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order across the chamber! Senator McGrath! Before I call the senator for her second supplementary, I reminded the chamber of your behaviour yesterday. Quite frankly, we've started the same way. I'm asking you to reflect on your own behaviour and take a breath before you interject. Minister Gallaher.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It was more of a speech, I think, than a question. In case you didn't notice—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Scarr, that does apply to you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In case those opposite missed it, this chamber passed legislation to set up the referendum, so this idea that you just change it and change the question and all of that is absolute—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's what you did on local government.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This chamber and that chamber passed legislation on the referendum, and some of you—including you, Senator Birmingham—voted to support it. So we are not going to change the question, because it is enshrined in legislation that has been passed by this parliament. We look forward to the next four weeks of campaigning for a yes vote to drive practical outcomes for First Nations Australians by listening to them, by recognising First Nations in our Constitution, and delivering because the alternative is that we accept the status quo and frankly that is not good enough. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallaher. Today, the Australia Bureau of Statistics released the national accounts for the June quarter. These accounts provide the most comprehensive snapshot of the Australian economy at the moment, what's impacting the economy both here and abroad, and how Australians are responding to those impacts. Can the minister update the Senate on what the national accounts showed, and outline how the Albanese government is already implementing policies which will support Australians who are feeling the cost-of-living pressures the most, without making inflation worse.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Payman for her excellent question on the national accounts. As senators will have seen with the release of this data at 11.30 this morning, in the face of global and domestic pressure, Australia's economy has remained resilient. The national accounts for the June quarter show that the Australian economy grew 0.4 per cent in the quarter and 2.1 per cent through the year. In the 2022-23 financial year, the economy grew by 3.4 per cent. Economic growth held up relatively well despite the impacts of high interest rates, high but moderating inflation and continuing global uncertainty, including the slowdown in China. Capital investment and services export were the main drivers of economic growth in the quarter.</para>
<para>The national accounts also showed that household saving is moderating in expected ways. Australians have continued to pull back on discretionary spending to make room for essentials and to cover mortgage repayments and are saving less out of their incomes. The housing-saving ratio declined to 3.2 per cent. People are also spending less on renovating their homes, which contributed to a decline in dwelling investment in the quarter.</para>
<para>I know those opposite don't like to talk about the economy, and I can hear their interjections. They're not interested in that; their focus is elsewhere. But, in light of some of those pressures that we're seeing across global headwinds, but also some of those domestic challenges around inflation, these results today are pleasing. We have been honest with the Australian community about some of these economic challenges, and that's why it is important to talk about these results when they come out.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> I'm just going to drown you out. The louder you shout, the louder I shout, and it becomes quite unpleasant, including for those listening along at home, I would say. But these are important results today. They show that our economic plan is— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order! Senator McGrath, I heard your interjection. It is not 'game on', it's question time. I have asked you to listen in respectful silence, and that is what I expect. Senator Payman, first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The national accounts paint a picture of a softening economy and show that more challenges lie ahead. Minister, yesterday, the independent Reserve Bank board made the decision to keep interest rates on hold at 4.1 per cent, which I am sure would be welcome news to millions of mortgage holders. How is the government responding to the challenges that you have outlined, and what further support can Australians expect in coming weeks to build on the targeted cost-of-living relief that has flowed over the October and May budgets?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Payman, for that question. We do, of course, acknowledge the decision taken by the Reserve Bank yesterday to keep interest rates on hold. But we understand that people still remain under pressure with the impact of interest rate increases that started under your watch, I would say, in the quarter where we saw inflation at the highest level. Remember that? You guys have a very, very bad case of selective memory loss.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm just reminding them, President, that the highest inflation quarter was under their watch, and that is when interest rates started increasing. This selective memory loss problem that you all suffer from—this cognitive deficit that you have—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. I'm waiting for silence. I've asked for you to be respectful when people are answering the question, and yet there are persistent interjections from a handful of you. I'm asking you to listen in silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's why the government's cost-of-living package, our economic plan, does focus on providing assistance for those cost-of-living pressures. Whether it be rent, energy bills, cheaper child care, cheaper medicines or fee-free TAFE, these are carefully calibrated to meet the challenges of the time. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Payman, second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYMAN</name>
    <name.id>300707</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister yesterday said that the government was projecting a strong surplus position in the final budget outcome, which will be released later this month. Why is it crucial that we have a solid budget footing so that the government can invest in targeted cost-of-living relief measures that support Australians at a time when they need it most?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Payman, and thank you for your interest in the fact that the government will be delivering the first budget surplus in 15 years. This will be delivered at a time when we have provided targeted cost-of-living relief to Australians. It is important to get the budget back on track. Those opposite never really cared about that; they cared a lot about the headline, not about the delivery. We saw that with the budget. We are addressing the problems with the budget. We are fixing up terminating measures. We are making investments where we can. We are finding savings where we can. We are getting rid of the waste and rorts and putting the budget in a much better shape so that when we do need to use it, when we do need to provide additional investments that Australian people rely on, the budget is there to support those investments. We look forward to delivering that first budget surplus because it is important that our budget is in better nick for the challenges that are coming towards us. We know that it is more than just printing a set of mugs to fundraise from.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>47</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Parliament of Papua New Guinea</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I draw to the attention of honourable senators the presence in the gallery of a delegation from PNG. It is the special parliamentary committee on the 2022 election led by the Hon. Allan Bird MP, who is the committee chair and Governor for East Sepik. On behalf of all senators, I wish you a warm welcome to Australia and in particular to the Senate.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>47</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is also to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. In how many consecutive quarters has Australia's GDP per capita declined?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hume for the question. It is not uncommon from quarter to quarter for the per capita measure to move in that direction. In fact, it has gone backwards one in every four quarters since these records began about 50 years ago, or 48 times out of the last 199 quarters. There is no doubt, though, that in today's numbers—and the Treasurer dealt with this in his press conference earlier today—that we are seeing the impact of higher interest rates, high-but-moderating inflation, which is welcome, and some of the impacts of global uncertainty. We have been clear and upfront with people about those challenges and the impacts it is having on households, which is why our cost-of-living package, most of which those opposite opposed, has been so important to support households through this. But at the same time, we have seen a rebound in population growth which has been driven by the reopening of our economy post COVID and this very significant return of international students in particular, which is showing up in the services exports numbers and that is good news of course for our education and tourism sectors. While we are seeing international students are returning to more normal levels following the pandemic, we are still not expecting to see net overseas migration catch up to the level forecast by the coalition government prior to the pandemic until the end of the decade. I think, in short, the answer to the question is we have seen—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On relevance, I just asked how many quarters consecutively that Australia's GDP per capita has declined.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe the minister is being—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In a minute and a half, we haven't got there yet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She has answered back to the time records were held, but I am happy to draw your question to the minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have made the point in the answer to my question that it is not uncommon to see these numbers move around quarter to quarter. In fact, we have seen them move quite significantly. In almost a quarter out of all of the quarters reported, we have seen these numbers move around. You do see quarters of negative per capita growth since these numbers have been recorded.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what has productivity changed by in the June quarter and what do today's national accounts show that it has changed by throughout the last financial year?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Frankly, I am surprised that Senator Hume would ask a question about productivity when the decade that they were in government saw the worst productivity growth in the last 60 years—in the last 60 years! The decade that you were in power had the worst productivity growth that we have seen. It was, on average, 1.1 per cent per annum for the decade you were responsible and you failed to deal with the challenges to productivity growth. We knew you were trying to keep wages low—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order, President, on direct relevance. Senator Hume has asked about the productivity changes in the June quarter and over the last year. It's all very well for the minister to talk about the previous decade, but she's happy to claim the budget surplus for the last year so how about the government takes responsibility for the productivity figures for the last year?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, the last part of what you were claiming was a debating point. Minister Farrell?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator F</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order: I think that the minister is directly answering the question that she was asked, and I think she should be allowed to continue to answer that question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister Farrell. The minister has just started her answer. I will listen, and if she's not—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She only has 18 seconds left!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, if you've called the point of order I would expect you to listen to my response in silence. Is this another point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's another point of order, President: fairness. It's a further point of order, on your ruling. Sometimes it's reasonable to point out that the clock has only elapsed a short period of time. On this occasion, the clock has elapsed 42 out of the 60 seconds so in fairness, President, if we're going to draw the minister's attention to the question it needs to happen now if she is to have time to actually answer the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order: the minister has been answering the question directly and every time Senator Birmingham interrupts it's less time to answer that question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Farrell. I am going to allow the minister to continue, Senator Birmingham, and I will listen carefully to her continued response. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. The point I was making is that we do have a productivity challenge in our economy; that's reflected in the national accounts. But it's reflected in the economy that we inherited from those opposite, who didn't do the things they needed to do in skills, in reconstruction, in investments in IT and in supporting employees. For all of these things we're having to fix up your mess— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, a second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's two questions that the finance minister has been unable to answer. Economists universally agree that Labor's industrial relations reforms will further hurt productivity; that decisions such as the rejection of additional Qatar Airways flights hurt competition; and that the Albanese Labor government's policies are making a weakening economy weaker. How much poorer will Australians be and how many jobs will be lost as Labor's policies drive Australia deeper into a per capita recession?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much for that, and for the statement from Senator Hume. We are very confident—and it doesn't surprise me that we have criticism of our industrial relations policy, because we know that those opposite wanted to keep wages low—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Don't you start talking about productivity! What happened under you, Senator Birmingham—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are addressing the productivity challenge and we are addressing the wages challenge that we inherited—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senators on my left—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESI</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Two per cent for the June quarter—if you knew why didn't you answer it?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham! I'm calling you to order—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've called you twice, Senator Birmingham. I would think that, as the leader, you would set—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Don't answer me back!</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I called the Senate to order and I particularly called you to order. I should not have to call twice!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I called the Senate to order and the minute the minister stood the disorder started again. I am asking senators, particularly those on my left, but not exclusively, to be respectful. Minister Farrell.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have a point of order. The leader was quite disrespectful to you just a moment ago. I think—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGrath</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What's the standing order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was disrespectful to the President and you ought to apologise for your comments to the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, please resume your seat.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator McGrath and Senator Hughes! I'm asking the chamber to be respectful. Senator Farrell, I have dealt with Senator Birmingham. I call the minister to continue her answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. In summing up, Australia will be a much stronger country. It will have a much stronger economy from the policies that we are implementing, whether they are about addressing the productivity challenges or whether they are about addressing the wages issue that we have had in our country for more than a decade.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hughes</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The unions will be much stronger. The CFMMEU will be much stronger, not Australian businesses.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's no surprise that those opposite would take every last breath in their bodies to fight against working people getting fair treatment—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Gallagher, please resume your seat. Senator Hughes, I called you to order, and what did you do? You just kept interjecting. Your interjections are disorderly, and they are disrespectful to this chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You as well, Senator McGrath. Minister, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've finished my answer.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Economic Security</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance and Minister for Women, Senator Gallagher. Australian women are retiring with significantly less superannuation savings than men. Paying superannuation on paid parental leave was a 2019 Labor election policy. It would cost $200 million each year, which is less than 10 per cent of the revenue expected to be raised from the government's proposed changes to superannuation tax. You say you're waiting until budget circumstances permit to pay superannuation on PPL, but your proposed super tax changes are a revenue measure that would raise 10 times what is needed to pay super on PPL. Why are you making women wait when you have a proposed revenue source that could fund paying superannuation on paid parental leave?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Waters for the question and acknowledge her long interest in improving women's economic equality in this country. It's a priority that she and I share. I think you've seen in the last two budgets how seriously the government are taking or making that priority, and we're addressing it through the payment system, where we've made some significant changes. We are also doing it through the work we're doing in women's policy more generally, through our National Strategy to Achieve Gender Equality and through our work on the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children. To begin with, I just wanted to put it in that context.</para>
<para>We have been clear—in fact, I heard the Treasurer on the radio this morning reconfirming our commitment to doing super on PPL when the budget allows for that to happen. I acknowledge that the Greens' position is that we link the PRRT or the high-balance super accounts to that change. That's not how the government works. We're not hypothecating, in a sense, where we're making revenue changes to expenditure decisions. These are all matters that come back through government in the normal way, which is that we take a range of decisions on one side of the budget and we take a range of decisions on the other.</para>
<para>But it remains a priority for us. That's part of the reason why we are trying to get the budget back into better shape—so that we can make these investments. I think it's probably a little bit more than $200 million—I haven't seen the updated costings for it—but we are trying to make room in the budget for sensible investments like these that will provide a boost to women's economic security, as we know that is good for the economy as well.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, in the last financial year, your government gave $9.8 billion worth of subsidies to fossil fuel industries. You're also spending half a trillion dollars on nuclear submarines. Meanwhile, paying superannuation on PPL, which would cost a modest $200 million each year, is subject to budget constraints. Why is spending on fossil fuels and nuclear subs immediate when women have to keep waiting?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senato</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>r GALLAGHER (—) (): I would argue that we're not waiting when it comes to women. Some of those changes that we've done include aged-care wage increases, where the vast majority of those employees are women; funding and indexation for community organisations, many of whom work in the women's sector; and the skills guarantee, where we are making targeted commitments about women and access to women's skills and training.</para>
<para>But, aside from that, I guess the answer is that the government has to do a range of things at the same time, and defence and national security is part of that. I think the fossil fuel issue you raised is the diesel fuel rebate. Again, that's important for many industries in this country. The budget is a series of balanced up decisions, but I do not accept that we are asking women to wait. We are making investments. We are getting the budget in better shape. And, when room allows, we will deliver on that commitment that has been a longstanding one for this government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Jobs and Skills Summit, almost a year ago, said that paying super on PPL was a good idea. Three months ago the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce recommended it. Your own national conference said this was a priority reform. On the radio this morning the Treasurer said you do intend to act on this in the future. Can you please give women a date for when you will act on this?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In a range of those areas, the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce came up with a range of priorities, many of which we have delivered on—not all of them, but many we have—so we are remaining true to those processes and the advice that they have given.</para>
<para>No, I can't provide you with a date. These are decisions that the government hasn't taken at this point in time. But it remains a priority. Senator McAllister led the work on this some time ago, in a previous parliament. She led the work on this, and she put it on the national agenda, along with a lot of other advocacy organisations. It is in our platform because of that work, and we intend to deliver on it. No, I can't give you a date, but we remain committed to it, and we can remain committed to gender equality in this country and, as part of that, seeing a significant improvement in women's economic security.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Relations: Australia and South-East Asia</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the acting leader and the Minister for Trade and Tourism, Senator Farrell. Today the Prime Minister launched Invested: Australia's Southeast Asia Economic Strategy to 2040 in Jakarta, Indonesia. Could the minister please update the Senate on this important announcement, including what it means for our relationship with our South-East Asia neighbours and how the strategy supports our government's plans to expand and diversify Australia's trade in the region?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ciccone for his excellent question and his interest in building trading relationships with our good friends in South-East Asia. Deepening our engagement in South-East Asia is a priority for the Albanese Labor government. The opportunities in our region are simply incredible, and the ASEAN economy is predicted to be the fourth largest single market in the world by 2040, after the United States, China and India. Trading and investing more in South-East Asia means more opportunities for Australian businesses to grow, creating more Australian jobs and boosting our economic prosperity. That is why the Prime Minister appointed Mr Nicholas Moore to lead the development of the strategy.</para>
<para>His report, launched today, sets out a practical pathway to increase two-way trade and investment with the region. It highlights opportunities for our exporters, investors, tourism businesses, higher education providers as well as creative and clean economy sectors. Whether it's boosting energy transformation, high skilled manufacturing or supplying world-class produce, Australia has all the goods and services our region needs to power its growth into the decades ahead. The strategy reinforces that trade and investment diversification are key to our shared future prosperity and economic security. We want to put forge strong, genuine partnerships with our South-East Asian neighbours.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know you're not interested in this, but the Labor Party are, and we want more trade, more investments with our regional neighbours, and that is what we will deliver.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that very comprehensive answer. Minister, what immediate actions will the government take to implement the recommendations of the strategy and support Australian businesses to engage with South-East Asia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ciccone for his fine first supplementary question. Australia's Southeast Asia Economic Strategy to 2040 is a long-term strategy with 75 recommendations. Today the Prime Minister announced three immediate priority initiatives to help Australian businesses realise these opportunities. We've committed $70.2 million for new Southeast Asian Investment Deal Teams to identify and facilitate Australian investment in our region in areas like infrastructure and the clean economy. We will deliver $19.2 million to the Southeast Asia Business Exchange program to boost trade by organising Australia's trade missions to the regions, and we've launched a $6 million professional exchange Pilot Program for Young Professionals. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How will Australian businesses and workers, particularly workers, benefit from the enormous economic opportunities highlighted in the Southeast Asia Economic Strategy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This strategy sets out key opportunities and highlights success stories of businesses making the most out of trade and investment opportunities in South-East Asia. For example, in agriculture Australia is a preferred grain exporter to several growth markets including Indonesia, Singapore, the Philippines and Vietnam. Last year, our wheat exports to South-East Asia reached over $6 billion and are a key part of the region's food security. In the clean economy, Philippines investor ACEN has committed over $700 million to build a new solar farm in New South Wales, providing renewable energy and around 700 jobs during its construction. The Albanese Labor government is getting on with the job of diversifying our trade and investment relationships. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Title</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Minister Gallaher. Redland City Council, situated in the northern suburbs of Brisbane, is facing native title claims over roughly 3½ thousand council owned and managed properties, including Wellington Point reserve, the Cleveland Cemetery and most of the local parks and playgrounds. The Albanese government and the previous coalition government have funded the Queensland South Native Title Service with almost $71 million over a period of five years to make claims against the Redland City Council and other extensive council areas throughout Queensland. What funding has the Albanese government provided for the respondents—councils and ratepayers—to fight these outrageous claims?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have that information to hand. Unsurprisingly, I would have to go and see if there is any information that I can provide to Senator Hanson, which I am happy to. Sometimes, if people give a heads-up when they have a question that is that specific, we can prepare so that we are able to answer in more detail than I can at the moment. I accept there is a level of interest from Senator Hanson, and I am not in a position to answer that today with any information that has been provided to me.</para>
<para>I don't think it's unusual. The Commonwealth does provide a range of funding through the NIAA, the National Indigenous Advancement Strategy, and it may be through other arrangements that you referred to in relation to native title, whether it is through the Attorney-General's portfolio, to support organisations pursuing native title claims. As to the specifics, I would have to come back to Senator Hanson on that, and I will see there is anything I can provide.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gallagher, I will help you out there. In the 2022-23 financial year, the Attorney-General's Department abolished the Native Title Respondents Funding Scheme that provided a piddling $7.1 million, while self-indulgent claimants received almost $71 million to pursue already debt ridden councils. Why did the Albanese government all but abolish the funding for one and not the other? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to come back with some information on that. It doesn't actually fall under the portfolio of the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, whom I am representing. For those opposite who are laughing, it is, as I alluded to in my first answer, a matter for the Attorney-General, so I'm not in a position to answer, as I'm not representing that portfolio in this place. I think this was covered at estimates to some degree. I am happy to see whether there's any further information I can provide the chamber. I will ask that the Attorney do that, perhaps through Minister Watt.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>You might be able to answer this one. Fifty per cent of Australia is already under native title, with a further 10 per cent awaiting determination. Minister, at what point will these native title claims end?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There are processes and laws in this country that presumably will be followed, unless they are changed, and there is no intention on this side to do that. We are looking forward to putting a voice to parliament so that there are opportunities to listen to First Nations Australians and to ensure that we're driving better outcomes across the country. This is something that I think all of us on this side of the chamber are pleased to campaign for, and we look forward, over the next four to five weeks, to that positive campaign which is responding to First Nations people. It is providing recognition in the Constitution and listening about matters that directly affect them to drive better outcomes for First Nations people across this country.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Sheep Meat Exports</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, Senator Watt. Your government has a policy position to ban the live export in sheep. In June 2022 you said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… there are some real opportunities to expand sheep processing and expand exports of chilled frozen meat, including sheep.</para></quote>
<para>Getting boxed lamb into the Middle East in a bagged carcass market relies heavily on passenger flights out of Perth. Minister, how will your government expand chilled meat exports to the Middle East if you won't approve additional passenger flights from Perth to the Middle East?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Brockman. I'm glad that, at last, someone from the opposition has asked a question about agriculture in question time. I think February was the last time anyone in the opposition asked a question about agriculture.</para>
<para>An honourable senator: But not the National Party.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Not the National party. So well done to the Liberal Party for taking an interest in agriculture. Senator Brockman, I know this is an issue you have a deep interest in. As you are probably aware, I met today and yesterday with delegations of sheep producers from Western Australia, which I think probably takes to well over a dozen now the number of times that I've met with representatives of the sheep industry, the export industry and all other parts of the supply chain. As I've said from the very first time I met with those representatives, about three weeks after the election, we will be delivering our election commitment, but we will be doing it in an orderly way, based on advice from the independent panel that I appointed to provide advice and recommendations on how and over what time frame that transition should occur.</para>
<para>I know, having met with the panel again recently, which no-one over there has done, that these are matters that the panel is giving consideration to. The panel is giving consideration to these very issues. The panel is giving consideration to how this policy should be implemented.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Canavan</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, the question is actually about the minister's statements in regard to the export of carcass meat to the Middle East. He's been going for 90 seconds and has not mentioned that at all. I'd ask you to draw him to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>To the point of order, I think that not only is the minister doing a very good job in the agriculture portfolio; he's precisely answering the question that you—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, you called a point of order in good faith and then you went to a debating point. In relation to your point of order, Senator Canavan, there was a preamble to the question that did mention banning the live sheep trade. I will listen to the response from the minister and, if necessary, direct him to the last part of Senator Brockman's question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, the matters that Senator Brockman is talking about regarding the potential for more processing onshore and what would be needed to make that a reality, including air transportation, are exactly the issues, among others, that the panel is looking at, and they will be providing recommendations to me.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's interesting that the opposition is taking an interest in the live sheep export industry, given that industry declined by about 70 per cent when the coalition were in power. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, once again, I called you to order and you kept interjecting. I am asking you to reflect on your own behaviour. When you are called to order, come to order. Senator Brockman, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> () (): Minister, as you noted, in the gallery today there is, in fact, a delegation from the Western Australian agricultural industry, which is already being hurt by your government's decision to end Australia's live sheep trade. Producers are already seeing lower prices. Confidence has plummeted. Sheep producer Charles Wass recently sold a flock of ewes for $20 a head, leaving him a $10 margin. He would normally need $80 to keep his business viable. Minister, why is this government insisting on shutting down this industry? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have said in every single meeting that I've had with representatives of sheep producers and the whole sheep industry supply chain in Western Australia that this is a policy that the government took to an election not just once but twice. We didn't win the election the first time we took this policy to an election, but we did the second time. I think it's important that governments keep their promises, and that's what we're doing. What you are asking us to do is to break an election commitment, and we're not going to do that.</para>
<para>The question was: why are we doing this? That is why we are doing this; we are implementing an election commitment that we were voted in to deliver, and that's what we're doing. But we are going to do it in an orderly way, in consultation with the industry. I look forward to receiving the panel's recommendation about how and in what way we should implement this policy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, considering Premier Cook has now come out against your government's decision to protect Qantas's profits at the expense of Australian farmers wanting to sell their sheep, will you fight for the sheep farmers in Wagin, Cranbrook, Kojonup, Katanning, Beverley, Williams and Darkan, or will you turn your back on them again?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I say, this government takes its election commitments seriously, and that's what we're doing; we're implementing that commitment. Senator Brockman, I assume that you've also been honest with those sheep producers about the fact that the number of live sheep exported from Western Australia fell by 70 per cent when the coalition was in power. I assume you've pointed that out to them. I assume you've pointed out the comments that your Liberal Party deputy leader, Sussan Ley, has made about this. And I assume that you've pointed out the comments that Senator Henderson has made. I recall she labelled the live sheep export trade as 'inhumane', which are comments that I've never made about that industry. I assume that you've presented a balanced opinion on these matters.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Order on my left! Minister Watt, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, as I say, I hope you've pointed out the comments from Senator Henderson when you were in government. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the sensible path is for both sides of the debate to construct a carefully considered transition to ending the trade permanently …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">… what we both believe is an inevitable and permanent ceasing of all live sheep exports to the Middle East.</para></quote>
<para>That's what the Senator Henderson said. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Farrell, a fellow South Australian. After a decade of broken promises, the Murray-Darling Basin Plan has left the river, the environment and the communities out to dry. The 450 gigalitres promised for the environment and South Australia has not been delivered. The government is now saying 450 gigalitres will be delivered in full by a new December 2027 deadline. What guarantees can the minister give the Senate that the 450 gigalitres will be delivered in full and on time under this new deadline?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson-Young. Yes, I am a senator from South Australia, and, like you, I was bitterly disappointed in the nine years of the former government's inaction in delivering on the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. It beggars belief that—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It beggars belief that, given that the proposal and the agreement of the Commonwealth and the states was to deliver 450 gigalitres of environmental water into South Australia, in all of those nine years only two of those gigalitres was provided. It's absolutely disgraceful—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, I've called you to order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's absolutely disgraceful that, on a plan originally devised by Prime Minister Howard—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate the history lesson, but I bring the minister back to the question. What guarantees can you give that the 450 will be delivered under your new deadline?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind the minister of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can have every confidence in that, Senator Hanson-Young, because I sit next to the minister, Minister Plibersek. I've got the greatest deal of confidence that she will deliver on the things that the former government failed to do. She will deliver what she said she is going to do in full and in the time frame—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McDonald!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She will deliver on time and in full on the time frame that she has announced. I have to give credit to the minister because she found a situation where, shockingly, the previous government did almost nothing to deliver on their commitments to the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. You can be assured— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How much water will the government secure for South Australia and the southern basin before the next election?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson-Young, for your first supplementary question. We will deliver what we have promised to deliver in the recent statements by Minister Plibersek. We know that in the nine years of the previous government virtually nothing was delivered. We will restart the process of what should have been happening, bit by bit, over the last nine years.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey! Again, for the third time.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Rest assured that, when this government makes a promise—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can laugh all you like— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does the government agree with the Productivity Commission that water buybacks are the most efficient way to return water to the river?</para>
<para>Honourable senators i nterjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! Senator Gallagher! Order, Senator Ruston! Order!</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Hanson-Young. What you can accept from this Labor government is that we will follow through on all of the commitments that—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could the minister please be brought to the question? It was very specific.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. I believe the minister was answering it, but I will draw him to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will deliver on all of the undertakings that we have made in the last week or so following the announcement—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Look, what you can understand and what you can believe that this government will do is that we will do the things that the previous government failed to do, and—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> Well, we will deliver on the 450 gigalitres of water that was committed— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, could I just ask you to reflect on the answer the minister has given? You did ask him to be relevant to the question. He did not even touch the question. I ask you to take that on notice.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will, Senator Hanson-Young, but, as you know, I can draw ministers to the question but I can't—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, don't argue back. I can draw ministers to the question, but how it's answered is up to the minister, and I did draw the minister to the question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Senator Watt. There have been public reports of some employers negotiating enterprise agreements with their workforces, enterprise agreements with decent pay and conditions, and then they engage labour hire workers at lower rates of pay to undermine the whole agreement. How is the Albanese government taking steps to stop the exploitation of labour hire workers and support the integrity of the enterprise bargaining system?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator White—yet another Labor senator who has a proud record in standing up for the interests of working people, something that not one member over there facing us has ever done in their entire working life. Sadly, under the current workplace laws in Australia, that we inherited from the coalition—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hughes</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Businesses don't like it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sadly, under Australia's current workplace laws, designed by the coalition, too many labour hire workers haven't been treated and aren't treated with the respect that they deserve. The labour hire loophole that the Albanese government is seeking to close is happening. Where after an enterprise agreement is approved but the employer then engages labour hire to undermine the agreed minimum rates in the enterprise agreement, that is something we need to really recognise about this, because we've seen some of the hysterical media coverage of this, we've seen some of the advertising campaigns being run by business groups, which are fundamentally untrue and are based on fiction. The labour hire loophole that we are seeking to close applies where an employer enters an enterprise agreement with their workers and with a union and then decides to undercut that very enterprise agreement that they have signed by bringing in labour hire workers on lower rates and conditions. So, it applies where employers—and it's a small number, but it still matters—agree to one thing and then turn around and find a way to knowingly break their commitments under their enterprise agreement.</para>
<para>What we've learned over the last few days is that all of those people sitting opposite want that to continue. We've learned that Senator Hughes wants that loophole to continue. We've learned that every single senator on the other side of the chamber wants that loophole to continue—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and wants to support those employers who enter an enterprise agreement and then undercut it by bringing in labour hire loopholes. Is it any wonder that wages were stagnant for ten years under the coalition government when they support that kind of activity? We're going to clean it up.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes. I have called you to order several times.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Don't answer back. Do not answer back. I am directing you to order. I'm directing you to be respectful of this chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hughes</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask Minister Watt to withdraw the imputations he was making on those specifically named on this side of the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, I don't believe there was an interjection.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, please resume your seat. You've made your point of order. You were disorderly through the entire time the minister was answering the question. That is—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes! Senator Hughes! I'm reminding you that it is your responsibility to sit quietly in this chamber and listen to the minister. Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, on your ruling: Minister Watt specifically, in his response on the record, identified and singled Senator Hughes out for commentary. You interpreted Senator Hughes's remarks as having been she was contesting there was some interjection from Minister Watt. It wasn't an interjection. If ministers want to be heard in silence, ministers also ought to show the respect of not provoking across the chamber, particularly in terms of ascribing motivations to other senators.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, I don't believe Minister Watt ascribed any behaviours to Senator Hughes.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not taking a point of order, Senator Hughes. I will take advice from the Clerk. Senator Watt and Senator Hughes, what I'm going to do is review the tape. At this point, Senator Watt, if you did make any remarks that were unparliamentary, I invite you to withdraw them.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to withdraw. I'd just say that Senator Hughes was interjecting constantly.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Hughes, please sit down. Senator Watt, when I ask senators in this place to withdraw, I ask them to withdraw without any other comment.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to raise a further point of order, President. In the exchange just now between yourself and Senator Hughes—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! Senator McAllister.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It relates to standing order 184. Standing order 184(1) requires:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Order shall be maintained in the Senate by the President.</para></quote>
<para>Guides to Senate procedure No. 23 makes it clear that it is not an instruction to the President but an instruction to senators to give assistance in upholding normal procedure and behaviour in the Senate. Standing order 184(2) also indicates that a senator—</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Are you telling the President the answer to the question?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I am making a point of order. It indicates:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the Senate shall be silent, so that the President may be heard without interruption.</para></quote>
<para>During the course of this question time, a number of senators have not complied with that. I am bringing this to your attention, President, and more broadly to the attention of the chamber because I think 184 is an important rule that speaks to the good order of this chamber, and I think it is something that people may wish to think about in the way that they are interacting with the President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McAllister. You will note I have constantly reminded senators that it is disrespectful to make comments while ministers are on their feet, and interjections across the chamber are disorderly. I have also reminded senators that they are responsible for their behaviour, and all I can do as the President is call for order in this place. Senator Watt, you were answering a question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've finished that answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>First supplementary, Senator White?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday the member for Hunter spoke about his former mining colleague Graham, who had been working for a labour hire company for more than eight years. That was eight years of his earnings being $30,000 less than his colleagues' and eight years of less superannuation. How will the Albanese government close the labour hire loophole to ensure a level playing field for Australian businesses?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator White, for reminding us of exactly why these reforms are necessary. It is for workers like Graham, who was raised by the member for Hunter in his speech yesterday. It would do members of the opposition well to listen to those case studies of people who have been hurt by these laws for why we need to close the labour-hire loophole. I've actually met coalminers in Queensland in exactly the same position as Graham, and I heard Senator Green talking about exactly these sorts of people herself this week, because some of us have bothered to get out, whether it be to coalfields or to other working environments, to listen to the workers who are affected by these labour-hire loopholes. There are certain people in this chamber who like to dress up as coalminers but never actually do anything to stand up for them, and we look forward to their support when this legislation comes to a vote.</para>
<para>We are going to close these loopholes that are allowing workers like Graham to be exploited, to be brought in as labour hire and employed for eight years on lower wages and conditions than the workers they stand alongside who are employed under an enterprise agreement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator White, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It sounds like, if workers and businesses who are doing the right thing are losing out, the only winner from the current labour-hire loopholes are those businesses who are relying on the loopholes to win the race to the bottom. That certainly was my experience.</para>
<para>An opposition senator: Is that a question?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it is a question. What is the likely impact on workers and businesses if this loophole is to be closed?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator White. If we don't close the loophole, every enterprise agreement rate is up for grabs. That is the simple fact here. We want to see workers get a fair go and businesses given a level playing field to attract staff and earn a decent income. Now, we've talked a lot about the benefits of these changes to workers, but they also have benefits to businesses—businesses that are doing the right thing. I would have thought that people who say they are representing the party of business would want to back in businesses who are doing the right thing and paying workers the amounts they've agreed to pay—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>because businesses who are paying fair wages can be undercut at any time—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr, I've called you to order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>by operators who want to gain an advantage by underpaying their workers. Now, I see Senator Scarr interjecting and I see a number of other senators interjecting, but I remind you: businesses paying fair wages can be undercut at any time by operators who want to gain an advantage by underpaying their workers. If you don't join with Labor and close these loopholes, you are standing with those employers who are doing the wrong thing and undercutting their competitors.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Farrell</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On that note, I request that any further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>58</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to standing order 74(5), I seek an explanation from the acting Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Farrell, as to why answers to overdue questions on notice asked by me of the Department of Veterans' Affairs, the Australian War Memorial, the Department of Finance, the Australian Electoral Commission, the Australian Trade and Investment Commission, Export Finance Australia, Tourism Australia, the Australian Sports Commission, the Department of Health and Aged Care, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, the Australian Postal Corporation, the Office of the eSafety Commissioner, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, the Department of Social Services, the National Disability Insurance Agency and the Treasury during the 2023-24 budget estimates hearing remain unanswered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McGrath for the opportunity he has afforded me to explain the government's performance in answering questions on notice from estimates. I'm delighted to inform the chamber that, for the May 2023 budget estimates hearings, our government has now answered over 85 per cent of questions. For the equivalent budget estimates in May 2021, when, of course, your government was in power, the Morrison government had only answered 67 per cent of questions by the due date. Further, the Morrison government had nearly a thousand unanswered questions on notice remaining when it left government, some dating back three years, and many Morrison government ministers returned answers from the previous round of estimates whilst the next round was underway.</para>
<para>We've heard a lot about transparency from those opposite this week, but let us remember the appalling record of those opposite when it comes to transparency. Who could forget former Prime Minister Mr Morrison secretly swearing himself into multiple ministries? We had a Prime Minister undermining our parliamentary system of government, undermining our democratic traditions of accountability and responsibility, and undermining the integrity of this place—and, of course, refusing to take any responsibility for it.</para>
<para>When those opposite had the chance to take some action in this place to improve the standard of transparency in government did they jump at the chance, Senator McGrath? No. They refused to act, and time and again they acted against transparency.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr is seeking to make a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, it's on relevance. I'm listening very carefully to Senator Farrell and I really don't see how his response in relation to the previous government's actions is at all relevant with respect to the questions raised by my colleague Senator McGrath.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I draw you back to the request. Having said that, Senator Scarr, I cannot direct the minister how to answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Where was the transparency when the former Morrison government refused to hand over key documents about the Community Sport Infrastructure Grant Program to the Senate?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, I have a point of order. You did just draw the minister back to the request. He showed flagrant disregard for your ruling in that regard. The question about responses to questions on notice was a very standard question asked in a standard way in this place. I have had to answer it before and I have been drawn back to the question in answering it before. I believe I respected the chair in doing so and came back to the point of answering the actual questions on notice, not reflecting on other extraneous matters of the current or previous government's activities.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you have heard Senator Birmingham. I ask that you—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I reiterate that I'm delighted to inform the chamber that for the May 2023 budget estimates hearings our government has now answered over 85 per cent of questions.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the explanation.</para></quote>
<para>Isn't it fascinating that the explanation from the government as to why they aren't answering questions is Scott Morrison? That's who they are blaming for this. Welcome to transparency under the modern Labor government. This allegedly transparent government promised before the election that they would be the most transparent government ever. Prime Minister Albanese keeps talking about how transparent he is. Guess what? He's not transparent and the ministers in this chamber aren't transparent, because they are hiding from being held accountable for their actions.</para>
<para>I sought an explanation from Senator Farrell as to why 30 questions that I put through estimates are unanswered. Estimates, by the way, weren't yesterday, last week or last month; estimates were in May. Let's work backwards. We're in September now, so that's August, July and June—four months. Four months ago these questions were put during the estimates process. What is estimates about? It is about the accountability of the executive to the parliament. Estimates are about the accountability of the executive to this chamber. In plain English for those listening at home, we ask questions on behalf of the taxpayers of Australia because it is expenditure of funds by the executive. We in the opposition and the crossbench ask questions as to how taxpayers' money is being spent.</para>
<para>You'd think that in a moment of reflection the executive of this Labor government, which promised to be the most transparent ever, would answer questions and would be proud to answer questions. You would think that they would be proud to put the answers on the record as to their actions. You'd think that they would be proud of it, but what is clear—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What do they have to hide?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that interjection from Senator Scarr: what do they have to hide? Is it because there's a set of golf clubs somewhere that they don't want to talk about? This is what sums up this government. Where are the golf clubs? Are they on the blue carpet? Are they in the back of a Comcar? Are they on a RAAF jet flying somewhere? What I've heard, which has not been denied, is that there are multiple sets of golf clubs that you distributed all around the place to make it easier for the Deputy Prime Minister to lower his handicap. This is what it comes down to: we ask questions on behalf of the taxpayers because we want to know, on behalf of taxpayers where this money is being spent.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Deputy Prime Minister is a handicap.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, I think it would be unparliamentary to say the Deputy Prime Minister is a handicap, so I could not agree to that particular suggestion. It is something that perhaps the government could answer.</para>
<para>But what I will say is that there is a trend here. There is a real trend in how this government is refusing to deal with the issues of accountability. Actually, I misspoke there: they are dealing with the issues of accountability by refusing to deal with them. We have seen orders for production of documents. For those listening at home, the plain English for that is that the Senate says, 'We want to see the documents because we want to hold the executive to account.' Well, guess what: there is motion after motion after motion to which the government refuses to agree. So the Senate passes the motion and the motion thumbs its nose at it.</para>
<para>There are also the questions on notice, of which I have 30 outstanding. By the way, the questions that I've asked are not overly complex questions. I'm not asking for the government to develop a solution for the Middle East peace process. I'm not asking for them to develop a solution for the differences between Northern Ireland and the republic. I'm not asking for things like that. I'm asking some quite simple questions about social media posts by secretaries of departments. I'm asking for very simple things. You would think that, if the government were all about accountability and transparency, they would be able to answer. But—shame upon shame upon shame—no. This government has a track record of not answering questions.</para>
<para>Of course, we've touched upon golf clubs. We can talk about this shocking scandal, and it is a scandal. The Deputy Prime Minister of this country has spent $3.6 million on airfares in the last 16 months.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How much a week?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll get down to the weeks. That is $225,000 a month. It's about $56,000 a week, or $8,000 a day, on airfares. So, since the Labor Party have been elected to power, the Deputy Prime Minister has spent $8,000 a day on airfares. Three point six million dollars—that's what he spent on airfares. There may be very legitimate reason for the Deputy Prime Minister to take his golf clubs around Australia and around the world. Some adults take a teddy bear with them. It may be that he needs his golf clubs to go to sleep at night.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, there's a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Deputy President, I draw your attention to the standing orders on relevance, particularly with the subject matter that we're dealing with.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, you are straying a little. Perhaps you should reflect on Senator Ciccone's wisdom.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, I will stray back. The point about the golf clubs and the flights is that there is a track record here of the Labor Party refusing to be transparent. Whether it's refusing to answer questions on notice, refusing to provide the details of flights taken by the Deputy Prime Minister or refusing to provide documents that have been ordered by this Senate, there is a clear pattern of behaviour by the Labor Party, the cabinet, the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister: they do not want public scrutiny. Having made all sorts of wild promises before the election, they've got into office and gone, 'Eh, nah, I'm not going to do this.' They've got on the blue carpet, and they're very happy being on the blue carpet, and they've gone, 'You know, taxpayers' money—my money.' It's blue carpet, blue skies, a bit of blue-sky thinking.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham, for that. To your point, Deputy President, I am directly relevant here in terms of the behaviour—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Excuse me, Senator McGrath. Senator O'Neill has a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Neill</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I make the point that the standing orders do have some clear direction about reflecting on fellow parliamentarians, whether in this place or the other. I encourage you to have a look at the transcript of some of the commentary that has been provided in this contribution—which I suppose would be the way to describe it—to the debate this afternoon. It is clearly, in my view, straight into adverse reflections on parliamentarians.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McGrath, please restrain any comments you have which may have undue inferences. I will have a look at the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What is fascinating is how concerned the Labor Party are. What we've seen with the interjections and the points of order taken—for those listening at home and those who may be unfortunate enough to have to read the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> afterwards—is that the Labor Party are concerned because they've been caught out. This is what this is about. There are 30 questions from Senator McGrath here that have not been answered. Other questions haven't been answered. We've got a clear activity by this government refusing to be held accountable to this chamber and the committees of this chamber. I would encourage every senator in this chamber to read back the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. Perhaps those on the left side of politics might learn something about being accountable to the taxpayers of Australia. That's what this debate is about. At its most fundamental point, it is about being accountable to the taxpayers of Australia and to the voters of Australia—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's why they voted you out.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>who expect a government—and I will take that interjection, Senator Ciccone—who promised to be the most transparent ever to actually be transparent. What we're seeing is a government who are not the most transparent ever. They are, in fact, the least transparent ever when it comes to answering questions on notice, when it comes to responding to orders for the production of documents, and when it comes to answering basic questions as to where the Deputy Prime Minister has been flying and if the Deputy Prime Minister has taken golf clubs, tennis rackets, croquet sticks or any other sporting paraphernalia with him that may pop into the luggage carousel—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill has a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Neill</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I may be mistaken, but I believe the point that was made in the request for information from the Senator—which was responded to by Senator Farrell—was with regard to questions that were relevant from the estimates session. I do not believe that the Senator who advanced this point is in any way talking to those particular questions which should be the subject of the debate today.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, Deputy President. I listened very carefully to Senator Farrell's response and explanation, and he traversed very widely the subject of transparency, including in relation to the previous government. So I would have thought Senator McGrath's approach is entirely consistent with Senator Farrell's.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's not one-for-one. However, Senator Farrell was very expansive in his response and talked about the previous government's alleged lack of transparency. I've allowed Senator McGrath some rhetorical flourishes, and I've allowed him to respond, but it is a fair point that when talking about transparency, Senator McGrath, you need to keep to the questions that you referred to in your request to the minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Deputy President. As part of my contribution, I moved that the Senate take note of the explanation from Senator Farrell.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Correct.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And when Senator Farrell did travel a wide terrain, including on issues quite irrelevant to questions on notice, that certainly does give me some latitude, I do believe, to respond to the broader questions in relation to transparency.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have said that, but there is a limit. There are boundaries in all things.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There certainly are boundaries in all things, and sometimes I do tippy-toe along those boundaries.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I can't believe that, Senator McGrath; I can't believe that.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a shocking revelation. I'm sure that will make the front page of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> tomorrow. What is interesting is that we've had another point of order in relation to Labor's discomfort about being caught out. Labor has been caught out because they aren't answering questions. They aren't being accountable to the taxpayers and to the voters of Australia. This is what this chamber is for. This chamber is one of the most powerful upper houses in the world. It is here to hold the executive to account. It is here to ensure that, through the mechanisms of the estimates process, questions being asked on the day and then questions taken on notice, through the orders for the production of documents, the executive is held to account. I will put this warning to the executive: if the executive insists on taking questions on notice—which is their right during the estimates, that, if public servants and ministers are unable to answer questions, they can take them on notice—if there's a perception that the process is being abused, then perhaps we need to extend the estimates process to allow further questioning of the executive, of ministers and public servants, so that they can answer the questions.</para>
<para>Here's a radical idea that I haven't taken past the party room or the leadership—it's always dangerous when I think on my feet—that, if the Labor Party are going to so much abuse the estimates process by refusing to answer questions on notice, a week later, after the first estimates week is finished, we come back for all those questions taken on notice and they can answer them in the room. Why don't we do that? Let's split it up. After one week, if they can't answer the questions and need to take them on notice, they come back a week later and we put the questions to them then. It's very disappointing that the questions on notice are not being answered. It is being used as a tactic to avoid scrutiny by the opposition—and when I say 'the opposition', I mean non-government members of this chamber. If this government continues down this path of snubbing its nose at accountability and transparency, if this government continues down this path of trying to hide information from the taxpayers and the voters of Australia through a possible perceived abuse of the process, then perhaps we need a greater conversation about how this chamber operates through the estimates process about how the executive is held to account. I'm pretty sure the last thing that any minister or public servant would want to do is to deal with estimates for one week, have a week off, and then be dragged back again to answer those questions. I'm pretty sure they don't want to do that. I say to the agencies who have not answered the questions, to the government departments who have not answered these questions—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They probably have, in fairness.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take that, Senator Birmingham. They probably have answered these questions, and they're probably sitting in an in-tray in the minister's office. I say to them that we expect better from the government of Australia because you should be accountable to the taxpayers and to the voters of this country. But we also expect better from the ministers in this chamber who have the honour of serving as ministers. We expect them to understand that holding a role as a minister of state or an assistant minister or a cabinet minister is an honour. You are there to serve the people of Australia and to be accountable to the people of Australia. Refusing to answer questions put on notice through the estimates process is wrong. It is simply wrong, and it is an outrageous abuse of this chamber and of the estimates system. I hope, on behalf of the taxpayers and the voters of Australia, that these questions are answered.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Like my colleague, Senator Farrell, I would like to thank Senator McGrath for providing us with this opportunity to highlight the government's performance in answering questions on notice. So let's be very clear about the numbers. Our government has received over 19,000 estimates questions on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>How many?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There were 19,000. That is quite a big number. Can you imagine how many of those we have answered? The answer, colleagues, is that we have answered 93 per cent of those questions. There were 19,000 questions taken on notice, and 93 per cent have been answered. We've also received, just for completeness, 2,573 parliamentary questions on notice in the Senate. Colleagues, can you imagine how many we've answered? We've answered 97.5 per cent of those questions. Do you know why we answer them? It's because we understand in a way that the people on the other side never have—and, I suspect, unfortunately, never will—the role that questions on notice play in transparency and in accountability. We will continue to provide the answers to any outstanding questions as expeditiously as possible. But it is hard to hear it from some of the senators opposite because the hypocrisy is just astounding.</para>
<para>The fact is—and it is entirely relevant to this debate—that their track record was appalling, and they set a very low bar indeed for this government to clear. Not only have we cleared it but we have cleared it with a very large gap. For the May 2023 budget estimates hearings, our government has now answered over 85 per cent of the questions. For the equivalent budget estimates in May 2021, can you imagine how many questions the Morrison government had answered? They answered just 67 per cent of questions by the due date. Many Morrison government ministers returned answers from the previous round of estimates while the next round was actually underway. When they were voted out, they had nearly a thousand unanswered questions on notice, some of which dated back to October 2019. They also failed to comply with 36 per cent of orders for the production of documents, and we don't know why they did that because no public interest immunity claim was made about those. So it's pretty hard to take them seriously on this, isn't it?</para>
<para>These aren't isolated examples of the approach taken by those opposite when they were in government. Who can forget former Prime Minister Morrison secretly swearing himself in to multiple ministries? I know you would all rather forget. It's pretty embarrassing, and it's difficult while Mr Morrison is here as an ever-present reminder of that set of events. We had a prime minister undermining our parliamentary system of government, undermining our democratic traditions of accountability and responsibility, and undermining integrity. Of course in the months since, he has refused to take any responsibility for it whatsoever. Who could forget the promise to establish in legislation a national anticorruption commission—a promise that the Morrison government never kept? They did nothing to improve the standard of transparency when they were in government. They refused to act.</para>
<para>Senator McGrath's contribution dwelled for a period on the special-purpose aircraft. The Morrison government failed to release any details on special-purpose aircraft flights taken in the last 16 months of their government. Can we guess who was the minister responsible at that time? It's the now Leader of the Opposition, Mr Dutton. He released absolutely no information about the use of special-purpose aircraft during his time as Minister for Defence.</para>
<para>Let's deal with this a little more seriously and a little more honestly, shall we, colleagues? The number of questions being asked has risen significantly. Indeed, 50 per cent more Senate questions on notice have been asked in this government's first year than were asked in the three years from 2017 to 2019. That's not necessarily a problem, and this government, as I've indicated, responds to the questions that are asked. But it's an increase from 11,700 in that period to 18,000 in the last year alone. I don't intend to comment on the quality of the questions being asked or the motivations of the senators asking them. But what is clear and observable is that the information that's being provided is not being used to improve the quality of the opposition's policymaking, because they have no policies. It isn't being used to improve the factual basis of their public arguments, because they continue to be even more divorced from reality in opposition than they were in government, and that is really saying something.</para>
<para>The truth is, colleagues, that our record demonstrates this government's commitment to transparency and integrity across the parliament. The reality is that parliamentary questions on notice have increased from an average of fewer than 1,000 per year from 2016 to 2020 to 2,200 in the first year of our government. Senate estimates questions on notice have increased from 11,700 from 2017 to 2019 to more than 18,000 in the first year of the Albanese government. We'll continue to work our way methodically through those questions, but we will not take lectures from those opposite about transparency.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make a very short contribution to this debate and give one example of transparency in response to what Senator McAllister has provided. During the course of the previous coalition government, there was a case involving access under the Freedom of Information Act to the calendar and diary of the then Attorney-General, the Hon. George Brandis, who is a good friend of mine. That case went all the way through the courts, and a finding was made that that diary should be provided. The current Prime Minister, in the face of that clear legal precedent, refuses to provide a copy of his diary when requested under freedom-of-information legislation. From my perspective, that sums up the current government's views on transparency.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>63</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Answers to Questions</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by ministers to questions without notice asked by opposition senators today.</para></quote>
<para>I will traverse a number of answers that were provided during question time, and I'm very mindful of the fact that my very good friend Senator Brockman is going to be making a contribution to this debate. I did appreciate the questions he asked with respect to the live export industry in his good state of Western Australia.</para>
<para>There's one point I want to allude to in relation to the response of the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry to the question from my good friend. The minister for agriculture said, 'It was a Labor Party election policy to abolish the live export trade.' But who voted for that policy at the last election? The communities most directly impacted by that decision did not vote for that policy change. The communities who are going to suffer the economic disadvantage arising from that decision did not vote for that policy change. It's their jobs, their small businesses, their communities and their farmers who are going to be impacted by that policy change, and they did not vote for the Australian Labor Party. Once again we're seeing the government apply policy outcomes to communities who did not vote in favour of those policy outcomes—on the contrary, they voted for this side of politics, who represented something else. That should be noted in relation to the minister for agriculture's response.</para>
<para>Senator Gallagher responded to a few questions from my good friend Senator Hume in relation to the figures that were released by the ABS today on gross domestic product and related matters. It was staggering that the finance minister of this country was unable to answer a question about the national figures released today in relation to productivity. The finance minister was asked a direct question on what the national figures released today said about productivity and was unable to answer it. For those in the gallery, and for those listening at home, there are only about 10 of those national figures, so it shouldn't take long to get your head around them. But the finance minister was unable to provide a direct answer to the question of what the productivity figure was in the national accounts released today, so I'll tell you.</para>
<para>Productivity went backwards. That's a major issue in terms of this country and this nation. Productivity has gone backwards: minus 3.6 per cent for the year and minus two per cent for the last quarter. Australians are producing less, in terms of goods and services, for the same cost. We're going backwards. That has a direct correlation with our standard of living, and you can see that in another figure from the national accounts that was released today: real net national disposable income. Treasury—not Senator Scarr, Treasury—says that this is the best figure to determine what is happening for the average Australian working family out there in the community. Real net national disposable income is how much income the average family has, to buy goods and services or to save. What's happened to that figure under the Albanese Labor government? Again, it's gone backwards: minus 1.4 per cent for the quarter. From an economic perspective, Australians are going backwards under this Labor government.</para>
<para>Senator Gallagher also referred to the fact that this side of the chamber is opposing Labor's extreme, draconian industrial relations agenda. Yes, we are, but it's not just people sitting on this side of the chamber. Let me quote the chair of the Council of Small Business Organisations Australia, Matthew Addison. This is what small businesses—the biggest employer in our country—say about Labor's IR agenda:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Small businesses reject the proposed legislation.</para></quote>
<para>They say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The cost to implement any changes, the cost of advice, the loss of productivity and workforce flexibility are challenged by these changes.</para></quote>
<para>They also make the point:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Small businesses will need to spend time and invest money in obtaining advice to ensure they are not captured if these changes were to become law. This comes at a time when 43% of small businesses in Australia are not profitable.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The national accounts did come out today. They certainly do show that there's uncertainty in the global economy today, but they show that our economy is steady. We do have an ongoing inflation challenge around the world, and we all know that. We have ongoing supply chain challenges around the world too, and we know that Australia is not immune from those challenges. That's why it is so important that the Albanese Labor government became the government last year. It's why it's so important that, since May last year, we've had our shoulder to the wheel to build a strong economy that Australians can rely on. That's why, when it comes to our economy and when it comes to the standard of living for Australians, it's so important that Australia has now ended the completely wasted decade of the coalition government. For a decade, the former government was absolutely missing in action for all of the fundamentals that matter to our economy and to our people. They were completely missing in action for a decade.</para>
<para>We all remember the former government choosing to push Australian manufacturing off a cliff instead of investing in it. We all remember the former government pretending that they had an energy policy 22 times while doing absolutely nothing empowering our nations with cheap, clean energy. Of course, it's Australian families and businesses who are paying the price for that today. We all remember the way in which the coalition government treated Australian workers. I remember the Prime Minister saying that if you think you're not earning enough in your job to then just go and get another one. The problem was, of course, that the coalition government chose low wages as a deliberate design feature of their economy, with the slowest wage growth on record under those opposite.</para>
<para>But they come in here and lecture us about the economy and they lecture us about economic management. The former government chose to ignore women as economic actors in our society and in our country. We would struggle to find a single policy that advanced women's economic security from those opposite. What we can remember from those opposite is that when women stood up and protested for their rights, their Prime Minister told them they were lucky not to be met with bullets! We choose a different path.</para>
<para>We're getting on with doing exactly what we said we would do. We're dealing with the fundamental problems and challenges that Australians face. We're bringing people together to find the opportunities of the future. We came into office just over a year ago and, yes, we came in and found challenges—challenges of global economic uncertainty, of broken supply chains and of inflation already on the rise. What we also came in and found was a zero long-term agenda from those opposite to set Australia up for the future. A zero long-term agenda. Our job is to get on with meeting the challenges of this particular moment in time. Our job is to get on with seizing the opportunities in front of us in the decade ahead, and that is absolutely what we are doing.</para>
<para>There was discussion in the debate today about our closing the loopholes legislation. I, for one, am very proud of that legislation, which was introduced into the House this week. That's because we were elected on a promise to get wages moving and that's exactly what we're doing. Wages are now moving faster than they had been over the last decade. But to maintain that we have to close the loopholes that are undermining people's wages and working conditions. That's all this bill is about: making wage theft a crime. How can anyone argue with that? It introduces minimum standards for gig workers, closes the forced permanent casual worker loophole and closes labour hire loopholes. That's because we believe that everyone deserves a fair day's pay for a fair day's work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to take note, and I will focus mainly on the answer to my question to Minister Watt. Before I do, I'm going—as I usually have to in this place—to correct the propaganda and misinformation from those opposite with the truth about wages under the previous Liberal government. Real wages went up; until the COVID pandemic struck, real wages actually went up under the coalition government. And real wages are plummeting under this Labor government. They're plummeting in the face of a high inflation rate. That is the truth and the Australian people should know it, regardless of what those opposite say time and time again. It's misinformation and it's propaganda.</para>
<para>My question was about my home state of Western Australia, particularly about the agriculture industry—which I hold very dear—and the sheep industry, which I have been a part of through our family farm. I mentioned a number of communities in Western Australia. I talked about Wagin in Cranbook. I talked about Kojonup, Katanning, Beverley. I talked about Williams and Darkan and there are so many more that I could name. Towns, families, farming families, family owned businesses that are having their future threatened directly by this Labor government.</para>
<para>I asked about the flights from Western Australia because this minister, this government, have said, 'Oh, well, but the industry can transition to chilled and box meat.' Not if the flights aren't there. This chilled and boxed meat has to go out in the belly of an aircraft. If the flights aren't there to the Middle East, it can't happen. It's not a realistic transition pathway for the industry. In fact, if you know anything about this industry, which clearly this minister doesn't, you would know that the nature of the industry, the time you turn off stock in Western Australia is very different to any other state, which is why the live export market by ship is so important to the industry in Western Australia and so important to those regional communities I have talked about today.</para>
<para>Minister Watt talked about how they took it to an election—well, to two elections. They did, but let's just go through that. The first election they lost, so they can't justify anything on the basis of the first election. The second election, they kept this policy extraordinarily quiet. The local regional newspaper in my home state of Western Australia asked every Western Australian MP and senator from my home state of Western Australia what their position was on the phase-out. Silence. They didn't get one answer in response. They were ordered from headquarters not to respond. In fact, the now minister—the shadow minister at the time—kept silent on the issue. I can show you the headlines. The media were writing articles saying, 'Is Labor still opposed to the live export trade?' We don't know. Minister, tell us.</para>
<para>The only reason it came out during the last election campaign was because at Labor campaign headquarters a junior staffer got a survey from an animal rights group which had a check-the-box: Do you support the ban on live export of sheep? That box was checked and that's how the policy actually came into the public domain. Until then, radio silence from the Labor Party. You've got no mandate for this policy. You have no mandate to take the livelihoods of Western Australian sheep producers, Western Australian truckies, Western Australian vets, Western Australian stockies. You don't have any right to take their livelihoods away from them. The minister for agriculture stood up in this place and tried to defend the indefensible, tried to defend a policy which so directly attacks the heart of the sheep industry. Not that long ago Australia rode on the back of the sheep industry. If we had not had a sheep industry in the sixties and seventies, there would have been no Australian economy. So to have a Labor government attacking that industry in this way is a disgrace.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party went to the last two elections committing to phase out live sheep exports via sea. I have heard a bit of discussion today in take note that Western Australians didn't know about it, that Western Australians didn't vote for it. In fact ,we had a record number of seats won by the Labor Party with this policy and we won a third unprecedented Senate seat. This policy was out there in front. So there were four extra seats in Western Australia and a 10.5 per cent swing. As a numbers person myself, I look at the numbers; I look at the facts. The reality is that we went to two elections with this as a policy—it was certainly there before, people—and in Western Australia, in unprecedented numbers, they voted for the Labor Party. I know it's a bitter pill to swallow. As I recall, a teal won a blue-ribbon Liberal seat as well, so it was five seats that were lost. The Labor Party went to the election committing to phase out live sheep exports, and people voted for it.</para>
<para>Here's the thing: the government is focused on implementing this commitment to the Australian people in a considered, orderly way. Why? Because industry change is extraordinarily difficult. Having lived through and represented workers during industry change, I understand that totally and completely. It is incredibly important, when industry change is to be implemented, that you take a cautious and proper approach to how it will be implemented. So what is the Labor government doing? We have a four-person independent panel that has been employed to consult with farmers, communities and supply chain participants on when and how to implement this policy. This panel is going to provide its report by 30 September. We don't want to rush this. That's why the phase-out of live sheep exports by sea will not occur during this term of parliament. The Albanese government supports strong animal welfare standards and believes all animals should be treated humanely. We want to partner with industry to shape a strong and sustainable future for the Australian sheep wool and sheepmeat industries.</para>
<para>But let's look at what the sheepmeat industry is. Live sheep exports now contribute 0.7 per cent of agricultural exports from Western Australia and just 0.1 per cent of all agricultural exports from Australia. In Western Australia the current trade in live sheep has reduced to around 13 per cent of the exports at its peak in 2001-02 and 30 per cent of exports prior to the introduction of increased regulation in 2017-18. Live sheep exports as a proportion of Western Australian sheep turn-off—that is, live sheep versus sheep for slaughter—decreased from 49 per cent in 2001-02 to 12 per cent in 2021-22. Those are the facts. The live sheep industry has been decreasing progressively since 2001. In 2021-22 approximately 489,000 live sheep, worth more than $85 million, were exported from Australia, with the majority exported to Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Israel and Oman. Live sheep exports have declined annually from more than 1.9 million in 2017-18 to around 489,000 in 2021-22. ABARES predicts numbers will increase slightly in 2022-23, but not markedly.</para>
<para>It's really important to look at the facts and also to focus on what Labor are doing about this. We are taking a measured approach. The minister is meeting with farming industry and animal welfare groups regularly, as he said yesterday. Last time, he met with Western Australian farmers. We understand that industry change is difficult. It is significant, and that is why there's this measured approach—to make sure that we consider all options and how to implement this policy that we went to the election with.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm going to give the call to Senator Duniam. Set the clock for three minutes. Then I intend to put the question. I will then give the call to One Nation for two minutes, and then I'll come to the Greens.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are in a caring and sharing parliament, Mr Deputy President. I'm pleased to be a part of that and I'm pleased to be able to take note of the so-called answers provided by ministers today in response to questions from the coalition.</para>
<para>I want to focus on economics. Senator Hume, the shadow finance minister, asked questions today of the Minister for Finance, representing the Treasurer, about the impact of Labor's policies on the economy.</para>
<para>There was absolute disregard from the government for what their policies are doing to our economy—that is, the economy in which Australians work and live, the one in which they are expected to pay bills and make ends meet and keep the lights on. There was no regard whatsoever from the minister who answered these questions—or tried to answer these questions, because frankly they do not care. That is apparent in the policies that are being brought forward by this government, including on industrial relations, and we see that typhoon of terrible policy coming towards us, barrelling towards this nation, because this government has gotten drunk on power in such a short period of time.</para>
<para>They don't understand what impact these policies are going to have on the economy and the capacity for Australian households and businesses to do what they need to do in this great country to which people come from overseas. Immigrants strive to get here to be able to take advantage of opportunities that are afforded to everyone in this country, but the longer this crew are in government, in partnership with the Australian Greens, the more policies like their industrial relations laws are going to strangle this country's ability for people to take advantage of these opportunities.</para>
<para>The national accounts today bear that out, but if you had listened to the minister's answer, you'd think it's all happening around us, there is nothing we can do—</para>
<para>An opposition senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, easy peasy: 'We can walk and chew gum. We'll fix that and we'll do this.' They're doing a lot of things, as we know, strangling the economy and making these things far worse than they ever had to be. We must remember that these are things that weren't talked about at the last election. We are going far further on industrial relations policy than the Australian people were ever promised. We knew it was coming, though, because every time they sit on that side of this chamber or the other place we know exactly what they will get up to, and that is to pay their pieces of silver to their union paymasters to give unfettered access to workplaces to make sure that they can control what is happening in this country and deny people opportunities, because that apparently is a bad thing. It is Labor policies that are driving the economy south. It is Labor policies that are causing the results we are seeing in the national accounts. This government should start to take responsibility and develop policies and plans to address these issues, rather than focus on the past. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Native Title</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice she asked today relating to native title.</para></quote>
<para>Australians be aware, be very aware of the Albanese Labor government, which is coming to take your land. Do you know why I say this? In my question to the minister representing the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander commission I asked why funding was given to a Queensland Aboriginal group to make a native title claim against Redland City Council. I asked how much funding was given to the group and how much funding was given to the other side, Redland council—absolutely nothing.</para>
<para>They are funding the Queensland native title body to the tune of $71 million over the next five years, yet the funding has been withdrawn from any respondent to defend themselves against this. We're talking about Redland City Council, of 3½ thousand council owned or managed properties. That means the ratepayers are going to have to fund this. How deceitful are you? You are quite happy to see Australians' land being challenged and be taken up under the consideration that there is already 50 per cent of native title land owned in this country by native title and another 10 per cent under determination. A fund was even set up to buy back land as well, and you are funding them to make claims. We heard of another council, in Sydney, that has been attacked. There is 4,000 square metres of land that is worth about $100 million, and you are funding this.</para>
<para>This $71 million—I'm warning Australians—is only to do with Queensland. Go and have a look at what funding is for the rest of Australia. Yet they're not giving any money. They pulled the funding for Australians to be able to stand up and fight these claims. This Labor Party government that we have here has no concern about this country or you or your interests or that you were born here and that it is your land as well. She couldn't even answer my question 'when will these native title claims end?' She couldn't even answer the question and she didn't want to. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>For the record, there was only one aye.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Economic Security</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance (Senator Gallagher) to a question without notice I asked today regarding superannuation on paid parental leave.</para></quote>
<para>We know that Australian women are retiring with significantly less superannuation than men. We know there's a gender pay gap, but we know there's a significant retirement income gap as well. I was very pleased in 2019 when the Labor Party took to the election a policy of paying superannuation on paid parental leave. That is a good policy. However, it is now 2023. That party is now in government, and yet we still don't have superannuation on paid parental leave.</para>
<para>So I asked the minister: 'What is the hold-up? Why are you making women wait for something that you say is your policy; that your own national party just recommitted to in your policy conference just two weeks ago; that was recommended by the Jobs and Skills Summit, a year ago now, which was a business and industry forum as well; and that the Women's Economic Equality Taskforce also said was a good measure for gender equality? What are you waiting for? All of the experts are saying, "Get this done." You claim this is your policy. What are you waiting for?'</para>
<para>I'm afraid the minister responded with the same response that the Treasurer and other Labor spokespeople have responded with—namely, it's budget constraints. Women are having to wait because the budget is in strife. Well, I put this to the finance minister: you're spending almost $10 billion every year on cheap diesel and accelerated depreciation for fossil fuel companies through fossil fuel subsidies. You're spending almost half a trillion dollars on nuclear submarines. Those things aren't waiting because of budget constraints. Why are women waiting because of so-called budget constraints? I didn't feel like I really got a good answer to that. There is no good answer to that. Women should not be waiting when those other things are being prioritised. We don't support those other things, but this government is making an active decision to prioritise them ahead of women.</para>
<para>I also put this to the minister: if there genuinely are budget constraints and you need a new revenue measure to fund this, your upcoming superannuation tax proposals would raise 10 times the amount that paying PPL on super would cost. There's your revenue source—problem solved! Again, I didn't feel like I got a good response to that. There was a suggestion of: 'There's no notion of hypothecation here. That's just not how budgets roll.' I just think, if you're going to say that you've got a budget constraint and yet there's a proposed revenue measure that's in the same bucket of policy that could adequately address it and more, you can't really contend that you've got a budget constraint. You should actually just own up and say: 'We're not prioritising this. We said we would, but actually we're not. We might in future, but we're not yet.' So I think that's very disappointing.</para>
<para>Australian women are sick of waiting. We had 10 years of the extremely conservative Liberal government, most recently led by the deeply conservative former prime minister Morrison, where we were waiting and waiting and waiting for any semblance of equality or recognition or absence of discrimination. Women are tired of waiting. You've said that you've committed to this policy. We've given you a revenue option to fund this policy. Women are sick of waiting. We want this policy funded.</para>
<para>I issue that invitation again to the government. You've got these proposed superannuation tax reforms coming up. They would raise $2.3 billion at a minimum. Less than 10 per cent of that would fund superannuation on paid parental leave each year. It's a $200 million commitment, which is actually a small commitment for government but would make a big difference for women. We know that that retirement income gap is huge. After a lifetime of care, women are retiring into poverty. That could be eased and partially fixed by simply paying superannuation on paid parental leave for the cheap price of $200 million a year, which is a pittance to government but deeply meaningful to women and young parents. Obviously, most primary care givers are still women, so this is fundamentally a gendered issue.</para>
<para>The government have contended that they're committed to this, but it's like their extension of paid parental leave—increasing it to 26 weeks, which is a welcome change—which is not an immediate change either. Women are having to wait for that as well. That's being drip-fed over the next two years. I fundamentally object to women always being asked to wait for reforms, when we have been discriminated against, when gender inequality has been harming us economically and in myriad other ways for so long now, and when this government proclaims to know better, and should know better, and says it want to fix things. We will help you fix them. Please put a deadline on this.</para>
<para>I ask the minister: if you say you're committed, what is the date for when you're going to do this? Unfortunately, the minister was not able to give us a date. We will back these reforms if you put superannuation on paid parental leave. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>68</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>68</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government rejects the assertions in the motion. The government has outlined that we've claimed public interest immunity over the document, as disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. Disclosure would harm the Commonwealth's ongoing relations with the states and territories on this and other matters.</para>
<para>The government and National Cabinet agreed to an NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework, which will provide an annual growth target in the total cost of the NDIS of no more than eight per cent by 1 July 2026, with further moderation of growth as the scheme matures. The first step in achieving the annual growth target was the announcement of the initiatives in the improving the effectiveness and the sustainability of the NDIS measure in the 2023-24 budget. This included investments in the NDIA's capacity, capability and systems to improve the experience of participants.</para>
<para>The government will work with the disability community and states and territories on achieving the annual growth target under the sustainability framework. This work will be shaped by the independent review of the NDIS, which is due to report in October 2023 and has involved extensive consultation with people with disabilities and other stakeholders. The government has publicly released many documents on the framework, and, for the benefit of senators, I do have available to table the National Cabinet media statement, the ministerial media statement, budget papers and part of the recently released <inline font-style="italic">2023 intergenerational report</inline> that sets out the impact of the framework.</para>
<para>We have been really clear that there is a lot of work to do to deliver on the framework, including with the states and territories and the disability community. We will continue to work constructively with all parliamentarians as work progresses to deliver on the framework. It took a Labor government to create the NDIS, and this Labor government will secure its future. We're determined to make sure that every dollar counts and every dollar goes to improving the lives of the participants the scheme was established for.</para>
<para>Since coming to office we have already taken a range of actions, including appointing more people with a disability to the NDIA board, to bring representation to 50 per cent, including the appointment of Kurt Fearnley as chair; reducing the AAT backlog; cracking down on fraud; and significantly reducing average hospital discharge times for NDIS participants. The achievements of the Albanese Labor government are paving the way for a better NDIS for people with a disability today and for those who may need the NDIS in the future.</para>
<para>It is worth noting that there has been an exponential increase in the number of orders for the production of documents, and they have increased by nearly one-third, to nearly two per sitting day. Today we are dealing with another five of them. Yesterday there were 10. Public interest immunity claims should not be used as a measure of failure. They are the tool that is available to the executive to explain why documents cannot be provided. If the executive is discouraged from making legitimate claims then transparency will actually reduce, because such an approach is unlikely to elicit greater production of documents.</para>
<para>In half the cases where public interest immunity was claimed in response to orders for the production of documents, the Senate ordered the production of documents that would reveal cabinet deliberations or cause harm to relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories or to our international relationships. The government acts to balance the demands of the Senate with the public interest in maintaining the confidentiality of these deliberations and our relationships with other governments and nations. I'm happy to table those documents.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOH</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>N () (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the documents.</para></quote>
<para>As citizens in a democracy, it is reasonable to expect a high level of transparency around decisions that governments make, particularly in relation to decisions that shape the lives of people affected by the programs that it runs. It should go without saying that disabled people deserve the very same. The NDIS and its participants deserve to know the full details of the financial sustainability framework that all state premiers, chief ministers and the Prime Minister agreed to. Every single one of the hundreds of thousands of disabled people who are participants in the scheme, who rely upon the scheme for daily support, for the funding to get out of bed in the morning to have a shower, to meet with their friends and family, to go to work, deserve to know the details of the framework that was signed up to by their Prime Minister, by their premier and by their chief ministers.</para>
<para>This refusal to provide basic transparency to the Senate reeks of a captain's call that is being covered up. It is designed to serve a narrative crafted by government politicians who seem intent upon using the 4.4 million disabled people that call Australia home as a football to be kicked across the country.</para>
<para>Now, let us recount how exactly we came to be here. In April, state premiers, chief ministers and the Prime Minister met to secretly agree on the NDIS financial sustainability framework, which would map out the financial future of the NDIS. And they are refusing to release this document. In May, the Senate formally requested that the Albanese government table the framework. The government's response was that that document did not exist. To put it into more meaningful terms, the government admitted to having no actual foundational basis for their decision in May to impose budget cuts on the NDIS. For all we know they could have picked the eight per cent target out of the sky.</para>
<para>In June, the Senate again ordered that the government table the framework, the framework which in their budget they booked no less than $59 billion of cuts against. So something exists somewhere in Treasury or in Finance, because on the basis of that framework you booked $59 billion worth of cuts to our NDIS. Yet, you refuse to reveal the basis of that measure to the community. In June, the Senate again ordered that the government table the framework. It is, after all, suppose to be a document upon which the government planned these so-called saving measures. This time we were informed, as we have heard again today, that to reveal this framework would be to damage relations between the states and territories. Rubbish! Rubbish! All that would be damaged by the release of this information would be the Prime Minister's credibility.</para>
<para>We all know what is actually happening here. The Labor Party were more than happy to march arm in arm with disabled people, to proclaim their willingness to defend the NDIS from the slashes and the cuts of the former government. They were so happy to take the votes of disabled people at the election on the basis that they would protect our NDIS. In fact, now what we are seeing is the laying of the groundwork for them to implement the very same cuts, the very same measures, that were being cooked up by the previous mob. If I am wrong, if there is nothing to fear from this financial sustainability framework, then cough it up; share it with the public. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have to agree with Senator Steele-John with regard to this. There should be an explanation, but we're not going to get one from the Labor government with regard to the NDIS. With the way it is being operated now, it is an unsustainable scheme. In 2016, the scheme had approximately 30,000 participants. Now we have 610,502. It is unsustainable. In the last budget of the Labor Party, at the moment it is about $35 billion a year. You've added another $21 billion to it over the next four years, and it's going to be costing $56 billion. It's estimated to rise over $90 billion in less than 10 years. It is unsustainable.</para>
<para>The people we have on this scheme are not means tested. We means test for pensions and disability pensions, but we don't mean test for the NDIS. I can't understand why. It should be means tested. The number of children we have put on this scheme has blown out terribly. As of June 2023, we have 99,395 children younger than seven with an NDIS plan, and a further 14,556 accessing Early connections. This is unsustainable. We are getting more kids on it for autism—what level of autism? We need a government that actually controls who goes onto these schemes. You can't have doctors just willy-nilly looking after friends and families and ticking off on it—'Yes, go on the NDIS.' It cannot happen that way. It should be government doctors only, responsible to the taxpayers, advising who gets onto these schemes. As I said, it needs to be means tested. That's the only way we will be able to have this scheme into the foreseeable future. The number of people getting onto the scheme on a daily basis is astounding. I don't have those figures here with me at the moment, but I know it is to the tune of thousands who are getting on it every day.</para>
<para>And then you read reports like this one, about an $11 million NDIS rort. The rorting in the scheme is unbelievable. We've know about this for years, and large numbers of people have complained about it. I have to say, I'm impressed that Bill Shorten has actually jumped on this to rein the scheme in. In this report I mentioned, the woman is in New South Wales. They spent a quarter of the money in real estate. It was found in bank accounts, and they did a raid on their office. But what penalties are we going to have? That's what I ask. There were another two fellows in South Australia who were caught up with rorting the scheme, and they got two years. Two years! How much money did they get out of it? Are they going to keep those proceeds? Doing two years in prison is nothing if you're walking away with millions of dollars. It is pathetic—absolutely pathetic—if you do not do more to rein in the fraud that is happening with the NDIS. It's the same as my efforts to get you to rein in the fraud that is happening in the Aboriginal industry—you turn a blind eye to it. You're not interested. You don't care about the taxpayers' dollars.</para>
<para>It is important to rein in the frauds that are happening with the NDIS. When the whole scheme was first sold to me, I questioned it right from the very beginning. In the very beginning, they said it was going to cost $2 billion, and that was the administration cost. I questioned that. I spoke to those parents and they said, 'We need to know that our children are going to be cared for and looked after and have a decent sort of life.' I could understand that. But the people we are putting on the NDIS scheme are bloody ridiculous. I heard of a prisoner who got out of prison and, because he can't handle life by himself, he's on the NDIS scheme—$100,000 a year because he can't go out and walk the streets by himself. He doesn't want to do shopping by himself. This is what we're paying for. We're paying for people to go horseriding. We're paying for them to take holidays to places that that average person can't go to. We're actually paying for them to have these holidays. Sex workers are being paid as well.</para>
<para>This is why you will not expose what this is costing. You don't want the Australian people to know this. But we have to know this, because the next thing you will be wanting to do is to tax Australians more. Why don't you cough up and let us know what your plan is? With most things, you haven't got a plan at all. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Not even the writers of <inline font-style="italic">Utopia</inline> could possibly have imagined up the last 18 months under the Labor government and their mismanagement and lack of transparency on the NDIS. That lack of transparency has again been there for all to see in Senator Gallagher's response—or in fact her nonresponse. I commend Senator Steele-John for pursuing this motion—you can rest assured that we on this side of the chamber are with you all the way—to get this information from the Labor Party.</para>
<para>For those of you who are not familiar with the background, let me fill you in. Before the election, when I was Minister for the NDIS, I went to Bill Shorten and said, 'Let's take a bipartisan approach on this.' He basically gave me the two-fingered salute. Instead of working with the government to fix what clearly ailed the NDIS, he started saying, 'There's no sustainability issue,' and he started riling up the sector for political gain.</para>
<para>Just before the election he also said that he didn't need any more money for the NDIS, because he thought it was fully funded. After the election—surprise, surprise!—he'd clearly never read any of the budget documents or quarterly reports and never heard anything from estimates to actually see what was happening with the NDIS. Instead of taking action—because it is very clear, for the reasons I'll go through in a minute, what needs to be done with the scheme—he has commissioned an 18-month inquiry. Basically, he's Nero fiddling while the scheme is burning. We'll get the report sometime later this year. They've done a good job so far in identifying the problems that another 30 reports before this one had already identified. There is no indication that this government has any clue or any desire to take measures to fix this scheme.</para>
<para>What happened? After the April National Cabinet, it was announced:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Whilst the Scheme remains demand-driven, the <inline font-style="italic">NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework</inline> agreed by National Cabinet will provide an annual growth target … of 8 per cent …</para></quote>
<para>This is for a scheme that is already increasing by 14 per cent per year. I think the NDIS financial framework, unicorns, dragons and fairies have one thing in common—they actually don't exist. At estimates in May, I asked the officials if there were papers for the National Cabinet—'yes'. They agreed National Cabinet wasn't cabinet-in-confidence. Then I asked, 'Could the papers, or at least the strategy framework, be tabled?' It was: 'Oh, no, we can't do that.' Then they came back and said that the first ministers would need to agree on the release of any documents. I don't see that as a reason in the PII that the minister has just claimed as a reason not to provide it.</para>
<para>In the response to the order for the production of documents on 3 July, a letter from Jim Chalmers was tabled by the minister. He wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I continue to claim public interest immunity over the document prepared for the National Cabinet meeting … as its release would be detrimental to relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories.</para></quote>
<para>The release of a document that consists of four words—the title—would be detrimental, I suspect, because it simply does not exist.</para>
<para>I'll come to the PII response from the minister today. What the minister didn't read out is that if the minister concludes it's not in the public interest to provide the information, the minister must do two things: first of all, provide a statement of the ground for that conclusion. Tick! That was provided. However, the guidance also says the minister must specify the harm to the public interest that could result if the information is provided. The Treasurer and, now, the Minister for Finance have not met that threshold. There is no reason at all for them not to provide this. I bet you it's something to do with the fact that they've got a 14 per cent annual increase, they've said they're going to take it down to eight per cent and in fact cut by $15.3 billion, but they haven't said how. There are two drivers of costs for this scheme: participant numbers and average cost per participant. They have no plan to deal with both, but they must have some idea because they've said they're going to reduce it from 14 to eight per cent.</para>
<para>They are not being honest with the Australian people and particularly with the 610,000 Australians who rely on the NDIS with their families. Shame on you! I call on everybody in this place to keep the pressure up on the government, because they have not met the PII test. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government rejects many of the assertions in the motion, although—and I will come back to this later—I think, Senator Steele-John, we share a commitment to the NDIS and its importance in the lives of people with disability. I will speak about that briefly.</para>
<para>I want to start by reflecting on the role of public interest immunity in the way the Senate historically has sought to manage its business. This government is committed to transparency. I made a contribution in the chamber just an hour ago, running through our record since coming to government in responding to the questions that are placed on notice here in this chamber and in the estimates process, and also running through the statistics that you can observe from the previous government, who took a very different approach. Public interest immunity provides an important avenue by which governments may protect the interests of the public in the service of good government. The minister representing the Treasurer has outlined that the government has claimed public interest immunity over this document. Disclosure would prejudice relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories, and the harm that would be caused is this: that disclosure would harm the government's ongoing relations with the states and territories on this and other matters—and these are important matters.</para>
<para>I recognise that there are people in this chamber who, on this occasion and other occasions, seek to dismiss the importance of public interest immunity. I question the motivation for this, particularly for those that are members of parties that claim to be parties of government. I'll just run you through the grounds that are conventionally accepted by the chamber: disclosure of cabinet deliberations; Commonwealth and state relations; disclosure of privileged legal advice; damage to commercial interests; prejudice to international relations; protection of personal information; commercial confidentiality; and prejudice to legal proceedings. These are matters that parties of government should think about when putting information into the public domain. People on the other side who wish to assert that these matters are not of significance should, I think, reflect on the consequences for our system of government and the capacity of governments of all persuasions to undertake the business of government in the public interest and to protect that.</para>
<para>Senator Steele-John, at the heart of your argument today is a set of arguments about the significance of the NDIS to people with disability. Labor is proud of its record on the NDIS. We created it, and, under Labor, it is here to stay. There are now almost 600,000 NDIS participants, and they report increased freedom and control over their lives to be in their community to work, to make friends and to spend their time as they choose because of the scheme. There are things we need to do to get the scheme back on track, and our core purpose in doing that is to improve outcomes for participants and ensure the sustainability of this scheme for current participants and future generations. It's why, since coming to office, we've invested in NDIA capacity, capability and systems to improve participant experience. As the budget papers outlined, this has helped reduce further growth in the scheme by $15.4 billion over the forward estimates. We've increased the number of people with lived experience of disability at the heart of decision-making in the NDIA. Fifty per cent of the board and 30 per cent of the NDIA executive now consists of people with disability. Our core purpose is this: we want to make sure that people get the help the system was designed to provide, and we are committed to doing the work to make sure that is the case now and into the future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This public interest immunity claim is just another shameful episode by this government. What about the participants? What about the families that you are causing a huge amount of angst to?</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me point out to the government—and, while Senator Pratt scoffs over there, I'm the mother of a participant. I've worked with an awful lot of participants and their families. I'm the Deputy Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on the NDIS. I spent four days last week across Victoria and Tasmania meeting with NDIS participants.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, just a reminder to direct your comments to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through you, Acting Deputy President: perhaps you can remind that scoffs from those opposite are disorderly. We got a lecture on disorderly behaviour today, so perhaps we could see that upheld by their own behaviour.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Reflections against other senators is contrary to standing orders, so I would ask you to reflect on your comments but also to direct your comments through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was responding to an interjection. Through you, Madam Acting Deputy President: families that are involved in the NDIS, participants that are involved in the NDIS—families and people rely on the NDIS to be an important part of their life going forward so that they know their child will be taken care of when they are no longer there, able to care for them themselves. Absolutely shame on you, hiding behind this PII claim when you are undermining something that is the most important thing in many families' lives and many people's lives to ensure that they are able to participate every day.</para>
<para>They hide behind states and territories, saying the government's relationship might be damaged. Let me tell you what the problem is with the states and territories relationships. The Labor government may have introduced the NDIS, but they completely mucked up the design by protecting the states and territories from any increase in costs, saying: 'Don't worry about it. Just sign on, and the Commonwealth will pick up the tab for every increase in cost.' You know what the states and territories did? They said, 'Excellent; the Commonwealth's going to pick up the fees, so we're going to vacate the field.' There's no more community health speech therapy. There's no more community health occupational therapy. Teachers' aides in classrooms? You've got to be kidding me! There is no support in the education system. The states and territories have vacated the field. So, if those opposite are hiding behind a relationship with the states and territories, I'll tell you why they are hiding behind it. It is because the states and territories don't care about people with a disability. The Labor government introduced the NDIS, and this Labor government continue to give them a leave pass.</para>
<para>If the government were serious about sustainability, any conversation would include how states and territories need to be brought back to the table. They need to be shown a copy of the Constitution. You're big on the Constitution at the moment; maybe you can show the states and territories what they're responsible for delivering. That includes health, education, mental health—all of those things. Do you know a lot of people go on the NDIS for psychosocial disorders? This lot, when they got into government, couldn't wait to cut the number of services that were available through the Better Access to mental health care, because they don't care. It's all about helping their unions.</para>
<para>I come to this because we know it's not about making sure we have better services, choice and control for participants; they're trying to push as many people and as many providers as they can through to a union platform because they've got to give their pound of flesh back to their union masters. This is what we're seeing in their IR reforms. The IR reforms are almost a blatant attack on Mable, which is a horizontal platform that people with disability use every day to get support workers.</para>
<para>What those opposite don't understand is that it's actually a platform that people with a disability use to allow themselves to get into the workforce. Remember when it was called same job, same pay? It's now some loophole thing; clearly it didn't poll well as a slogan. What happens to people with a disability who have negotiated agreements with an employer? Say there's a cleaner who takes a third or two-thirds longer to provide that service and a company is now forced to pay someone with a disability and a cleaner without a disability the same. Do you know what's going to happen? The person with a disability is going to lose their job. But they don't care about that over there, because that person is probably not a member of a union. They don't care. They will continue to hide.</para>
<para>We keep seeing these media drops, and they're going to start excluding conditions. Is autism out? Are we going to start doing something about just cutting out autism? We know what Minister Shorten wanted originally. Rather than looking at taking data from the early childhood pathway and looking at functional assessments like Vineland and the Mullen scale to actually determine what level of assistance a child needs and whether or not, in a very objective way, you can say to a family, 'You've made great gains, and your child does not have a permanent lifelong disability, so we can move them off the scheme,' these guys have no interest. They have no understanding and no capability to manage this scheme, which they built. All credit to the scheme; it's absolutely life changing for people. But they mucked it up in its implementation and they're continuing to destroy it.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senators Dodson and Bilyk from 4 to 7 September 2023, for personal reasons; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator Dodson for 6 and 7 September 2023, on account of ministerial business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind all senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Export Permits</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than 4.30 pm on 7 September 2023, all documents relating to category 1 and 2 defence export permits provided to Sudan since 2015.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 314 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:48]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J. N. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Scheme</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>STEELE-JOHN () (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Treasurer, by no later than 4.30 pm on 7 September 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) all written correspondence between the Treasurer's office and the office of the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme between 17 April 2023 and 31 August 2023 in relation to the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework and related impacts; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) all written correspondence between the Treasurer's office and the National Disability Insurance Agency between 17 April 2023 and 31 August 2023 in relation to the NDIS Financial Sustainability Framework and related impacts.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin Plan</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 318, standing in the name of Senator Davey, before asking that it be taken as a formal motion. The amendment changes the reporting date to 14 September 2023.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">S</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 10 am on Thursday, 14 September 2023, any briefing notes, media briefing notes, file notes, emails, written communication and reports held and generated by the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment and Water, the Murray Darling Basin Authority and the Commonwealth Environmental Water Office since May 2022 regarding:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the agreement of Murray-Darling Basin ministers to deliver the Basin Plan in full, released by the Minister for the Environment and Water on 22 August 2023;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) options to deliver the remaining water, including water efficiency infrastructure projects and voluntary water purchases;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) funding, including funding sources and rationale behind how much funding each state and territory will receive on signing up to the new agreement;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) new supply projects;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) options to deliver the 450 GL of water for enhanced environmental outcomes;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) package of 'no regrets' constraints relaxation projects, including what constraints projects are considered to be 'no-regrets';</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) minimising the socioeconomic impact on communities of buybacks;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) water recovery options;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) consultants engaged to work on the agreement and all aspects related including market advice on options to recover water; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) the December 2018 Murray-Darling Basin Ministerial Council agreement on socioeconomic criteria and the associated assessment, which was adopted as the basis of the neutrality test for assessing efficiency measures projects.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Basin Aboriginal Nations Funding Agreement</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Davey, I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 319, standing in the name of Senator Davey, before asking that it be taken as a formal motion. The amendment changes the reporting date to 27 September 2023.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment and Water, by no later than 10 am on Wednesday, 27 September 2023, the following documents, including audited reports held by the Murray Darling Basin Authority and/or the Department of Climate Change, Energy, the Environment:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Northern Basin Aboriginal Nations (NBAN) Funding Agreement for the funding of a Cultural Flows Project Officer (The Murray Darling Basin Authority (MDBA) reference MD004598), the Cultural Flows Agreement; and the 2021-22 Core Funding Agreement (MDBA reference MD005878);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) as required under the Northern Basin Aboriginal Nations (NBAN) Cultural Flows Agreement, the final report for the project and the 2020-21 audited financial acquittal report;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) as required under the 2021-22 Core Funding Agreement, the progress and financial reports;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) copies of all Core Funding Agreements or related agreements with NBAN between 2017-19 and 2021-22;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) copies of each of the required reports under the Core Funding Agreement for each of the years since 2017-19, including:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the annual report for each year outlining how the activities detailed in that agreement were delivered,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the grant report detailing the income and related expenses associated with that agreement, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the audited financial report; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) any briefing notes, media briefing notes, file notes, emails, written communication and reports, including audited reports held by the MDBA, and/or the department relating to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the requisite number of Nation Gatherings and community exhibitions,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) support provided by the MDBA to NBAN's business improvement capability through funding the following business improvement activities:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(A) the Business Health Check, conducted between 17 November 2021 to 19 April 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(B) the forensic audit conducted in 2022 and covering the period from July 2017 to March 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(C) the Business Improvement Manager to assist NBAN in finalising its overdue contractual reporting, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(D) work with NBAN on administering its business 3 operations, noting that the Business Improvement Manager was engaged for the period 31 August 2022 to 30 November 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the decision made to defund NBAN and not renew its funding including discussions held on the 28 April 2022, with the decision communicated to NBAN on the 3 November 2022,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) allegations of bullying and corruption within NBAN, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) any of the matters referred to in paragraphs (a) to (e).</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Schools</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A proposal has been received from Senator McKim:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Labor must listen to parents, carers, teachers, unions and 2.6 million stude</inline> <inline font-style="italic">nts, and deliver 100% funding to all public schools at the start of the next National School Reform Agreement.</inline></para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ALLMAN-PAYNE () (): Last year, about 130,000 public-school kids finished up their final year of high school. That's 130,000 kids who never experienced a public school that wasn't underfunded. For the entirety of their schooling life, it was always about stretching money, cuts and layoffs. This year, another 100,000 or so public-school kids will graduate, also never having gone to a school that wasn't underfunded. It will be the same the year after that and likely the year after that. This is a national crisis that is affecting kids today and of the future.</para>
<para>Public schools are now underfunded by $6.6 billion a year. Yet, since the original Gonski review, government funding to private schools has increased at double the rate of that to public schools. The major parties have withheld $26.9 billion from public schools and plugged that money into the private system. Public school investment in Australia is below the OECD average.</para>
<para>This funding shortfall is more than just numbers. Underfunding means classrooms built in the 1970s that are filled with asbestos or mildew and mould. Underfunding means teachers working 12-hour days and covering the work of counsellors, administrators, social workers and educators all at once. Underfunding means these teachers are not paid for the hours they pour into marking and preparation, school events and excursions over nights and weekends. Underfunding means one teacher for dozens of kids. It means broken laptops, out-of-date textbooks and parents footing the bills. Above all, underfunding means kids slipping through the cracks, it means failing, it means not setting them up for success and it means widening inequality in this country.</para>
<para>Underfunding means that when NAPLAN results come out it's not surprising to see that so many of our young people are struggling. When teachers and schools don't have the resources they need to support our most educationally disadvantaged students results go down. Every time this happens Labor and the coalition start the distraction game—'It must be our poorly trained teachers,' 'Maybe it's the way we teach reading,' or, 'Maybe it's naughty kids or bad parenting.' They do anything to distract the public's attention from the nub of the problem, which is chronic underfunding.</para>
<para>Underfunding means a kick in the teeth for Australian egalitarianism. We are desperately running out of time. I hear time and again from teachers who are overworked and at the brink, from comrades who are plugging holes and buying classroom resources and even food for their students, and from parents who can't fathom what has happened to their local public schools. Australia and our kids are suffering for it.</para>
<para>At every opportunity to fix this Labor have folded. They backed off from Gonski, their crowning education achievement. They backed off what it actually called for, which is clawing back money from the private sector and putting it into the public one. Ten years later the gap remains. Money is pouring into the private sector. Now we have one of the most segregated school systems in the world. Right now nearly every private school in this country is overfunded. Not only are they filled over and above the SRS with government money but they also charge huge fees on top of that. The public are literally paying for private schools to succeed. We are footing the bill for plunge pools and orchestra pits. We are footing the bill for these schools to charge exorbitant fees—fees that are locking out kids and locking in inequality.</para>
<para>Right now there is no pathway back. Labor needs to own up to its neoliberal mistakes and take responsibility for its role in Australia's surging inequality. That starts with rebuilding public education. This is the last chance we have to save our public schools and to truly deliver an equitable school system that gives every child a chance at a great life. The Labor government must fund all public schools to 100 per cent at the start of the next National School Reform Agreement or they will consign our public schools to collapse.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know Senator Allman-Payne is very dedicated to making sure that the best outcomes are happening in our schools. She is a very important contributor to a number of the Senate committees that I'm on.</para>
<para>The Minister for Education has said that Australia has a good education system but it needs to be a lot better and a lot fairer. I agree that the funding is important—it's critical. The government is committed to working with state and territory governments to get every school to 100 per cent of its fair funding level. Funding is critical; it is important. The current National School Reform Agreement was signed off in 2018 by the member for Cook. Of course, that speaks of a wasted decade and missed opportunities in school education. The Productivity Commission, which I'll go to a bit later in my allotted time, was damning in its assessment of the former government's plan for school education, finding a series of deep-seated problems with the way the system was operating.</para>
<para>Last month, the Australian Education Research Organisation released research revealing that, under the current agreement, very few students who start behind or fall behind are able to catch up. Only about one in five students who are below the minimum standard in year 3 are above it in year 9. The coalition's school agreement has not worked. This is a critical, fundamental problem that we're facing right at this moment. That's why the Minister for Education has said multiple times that funding is important but what it does is also critical.</para>
<para>The Commonwealth funding per student in government schools went up by seven per cent over the last year, from $3,829 per student in 2022 to $4,096 in 2023. Critically, to make sure that we have the right funding, this includes an increase in funding for government schools from $10.6 billion in 2023 to $11.1 billion in 2024. Commonwealth funding for government schools will continue to grow during the one-year extension of the current agreement.</para>
<para>Critical issues were raised in the Productivity Commission's review of the National School Reform Agreement regarding the present system's difficulties and the need for reform. For example, in finding 3.1 of their report, they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">To date, the National Policy Initiatives are unlikely to have affected the education outcomes of Australian students.</para></quote>
<para>So, a policy was put into effect to improve the outcomes, and the Productivity Commission said there's a definite problem with regard to how those outcomes are being achieved. The report went on to say:</para>
<list>While the design of the unique student identifier and the online formative assessment tool has now been resolved, the agreed approaches do not appear to reflect the original ambitions for, and anticipated benefits of, these NPIs.</list>
<para>   …   …   …</para>
<list>National data projects have progressed, but the majority are not yet complete.</list>
<para>The Productivity Commission report went on to look at the question of making sure that the right thing is done. Of course, the Liberals couldn't get it right. Finding 3.2 was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The National School Reform Agreement has gaps that undermine its effectiveness in facilitating collective, national efforts to lift student outcomes.</para></quote>
<para>The shortfalls the report outlines are incredibly important. They include:</para>
<list>no outcome that captures wellbeing</list>
<list>a single weak target for academic achievement</list>
<list>a dearth of targeted reforms to lift outcomes for students for priority equity cohorts and for students who do not need basic levels of literacy and numeracy</list>
<list>a lack of transparent, independent and meaningful reporting on national and state reform activity which means there is limited effective accountability.</list>
<para>I could go on to the other issues the Productivity Commission raised, but some of those startling results I've given are important.</para>
<para>Also, and I think Senator Allman-Payne already touched on this, there's an issue with the incredibly long hours for teachers and how teachers' workloads have increased substantially. The workload of Australian teachers is greater than the OECD average. Australian teachers spend more time on non-teaching tasks and less time on teaching tasks than their international counterparts. Teacher workload has increased over time, and many teachers cite heavy workload as a reason for wanting to leave the profession.</para>
<para>There are a number of reforms that are critically important to making sure that we get this right. Part of those reforms are being raised in the discussions that are taking place with the states and territories regarding their obligations and our funding to make sure that, along with them, we get a better result for all students, all parents and all teachers across the Australian community.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak today on this matter of public importance and on the failure of Labor to listen to students, parents, unions and teachers regarding school funding. Firstly, I want to thank Australian teachers for the incredible work they do. I regret that this motion has not referenced the importance of evidence based teaching and learning, which are critical to turning around our declining school standards—which are now a national embarrassment. This is the most critical issue facing Australian parents, carers, teachers and students, who are being denied the opportunity to reach their best potential. Why do one in five students in year 7 have the reading ability of a grade 4 student? Why did one in three students fail the most recent NAPLAN tests? These are shocking statistics. Proven teaching methods such as explicit instruction must be mandated in every Australian classroom. Why is this critical issue receiving such scant attention from both Labor and the Greens? The biggest disadvantage is not learning to read and write.</para>
<para>Over the past two decades, despite a 60 per cent increase in funding, our standards have declined. Twenty years ago, Australia ranked fourth internationally in reading, eighth in science and 11th in maths. Now we have fallen to 16th in reading, 17th in science and 29th in maths. Australia has lost the equivalent of one year's worth of learning over the past two decades. We were once on par with top-performing nations such as Singapore. Now the average 15-year-old Singaporean is three years ahead of their Australian counterparts.</para>
<para>In its submission to Labor's review on the national school reform agreement, the Australian Education Research Organisation has reiterated the importance of reforms to ensure that proven, evidence based teaching methods are adopted in every Australian classroom, along with regular student assessment, targeted interventions and continuous database tracking of student progress. I put on the record that, under the coalition, funding doubled from $13 billion to $25.3 billion. This must not be a funding war but a war to improve student outcomes to ensure the next generation of Australians can reach for the stars.</para>
<para>Under the Gonski needs based funding model, the Commonwealth is meeting its current obligations, providing 20 per cent and more of the schooling resource standard to government schools but, with the exception of the ACT, the states and territories which run schools are well below 80 per cent. Victoria is only 70 per cent. Queensland is 69 per cent and the Northern Territory a dismal 59 per cent. So under Gonski, students in government schools are being short-changed by the states and the Northern Territory. All bar one of these are Labor governments.</para>
<para>The Albanese government was elected on a promise to deliver 100 per cent SOS funding, a pathway to full and fair funding, but Labor's pathway has become some fanciful yellow brick road to nowhere. All we have seen is review after review from education minister Mr Jason Clare, who had delayed the national school reform agreement by one year in a decision that even the Australian Education Union has called a 'betrayal of under-funded public schools and disadvantaged students'. In fact, the budget papers show the Albanese government is cutting $1.2 billion in funding to government schools over the next four years—what hypocrisy from Labor. Where is the investment in better student outcomes, or even building boarding schools for Indigenous students in East Arnhem Land and the Pilbara, which have been cruelly axed by this government? So much for listening to Indigenous voices. The big funding challenge facing Australian schools is to ensure that we are investing in the things that will help students and teachers to excel—evidence based teaching and learning, fixing the overcrowded curriculum and dramatic improvements in initial teacher education.</para>
<para>I say to this minister: What about the growing teacher shortage crisis? We have a crisis in this country. So many teachers are under pressure with the administrative burden, yet this minister has done absolutely nothing to fix the teacher shortage crisis, particularly in regional Australia. Our teachers are drowning in work. Principals cannot find teachers to teach their students. It is an absolute disgrace. In this motion today, I am calling for urgent action from the government to fix the teacher shortage crisis in Australian schools, particularly across regional Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tasmanian public school teachers feel like they have been set up to fail. That is the message I have heard in meetings over the past few weeks. Teachers have sat in front of me with tears in their eyes and told me they just can't do it anymore. They are underfunded, under-resourced and have their backs against the wall. We have a huge shortage of teachers in Tassie and there are a few reasons why. Some students are not finishing their degrees. Many are dropping out because they can't afford to do placements. They are required to do unpaid full-time work that prevents them from working a paying job at the same time. Some teachers are getting a few years in and are then burning out. They are using their own pay cheques to fund classroom activities and to buy lunches for kids. Others are leaving the state entirely. How do we keep our best and brightest teachers in Tassie when they can make more money by leaving? I don't understand. Teachers want funding to cover the bare minimum. We're not talking about the bells and whistles, just the necessities.</para>
<para>The federal government has met its end of the Gonski funding bargain but the states are dragging their heels. It's not the job of the federal government to reward the states going slow on school funding. States have to cover their share of the bill. It's not up to the federal government to make sure teachers are being paid properly. That's up to the states, too. At this rate, Tasmanian schools won't be fully funded until 2027. That is teachers being asked to do more and more with less than we know they need. And while we wait for that to happen over the next four years, we'll see more teachers leave and fewer teachers starting.</para>
<para>How we value our teachers, the key people who shape our children's start to life, says a lot about us as a nation. But it's got to be a team effort with the states pulling their weight. I know I'm in the teachers' corner.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to take the opportunity to indicate how important this debate this afternoon is. I thank Senator McKim for moving this matter of public importance because it allows me to speak on a subject that is very close to my own heart, education. As a former teacher, and also a teacher of teachers at the University of Newcastle, I know about the transformative power of education in my own life and also giving that opportunity.</para>
<para>I want to respond to a couple of comments by Senator Henderson in her contribution. I know that she is the spokesperson for education for the government that just was—that just was for the last 10 years. She talked about cuts. Let me tell you about being in estimates here in this building and watching Senator Birmingham defend cut after cut. A former agreement that was made with my state, New South Wales, allowed that state to count the cost of bussing kids to school as part of the educational contribution. That's why we have the situation that Senator Tyrrell was just talking about, where teachers are buying lunches for kids and are going out and getting paper for them to be able to work with. That's why we're where we are. It's because terrible things were done for a point of difference in terms of funding.</para>
<para>I warn that the simplistic solutions that were the signature of the previous government—we must have explicit instruction; we must be mandating that that occurs for every student—let me tell you that the evidence base is that every learner learns in a slightly different way. There is no way anybody would dare come in here and say to a builder: 'I'm sorry, I'm going to mandate the tools that you can use to build a house. You must do it the way I say, even though I'm not an expert and I don't know.' Teachers are experts, and they're sick and tired of politicians playing with them and telling them what to do without the expertise or the professional knowledge and diminishing the complex work that teachers do to mandate the sort of instructions we just heard repeated here again.</para>
<para>Funding obviously is critical in making schools able to do the best that they can do, but what's most important is what that funding does. We heard Senator Henderson's words: 'We have to have a war to improve the education sector.' We don't need a war. We need the sort of vision that allowed Henry Parkes to establish the concept of public education in the first place. The buildings we see were aspirational. They gave hope and heart to people in schools. That's what we need. We don't need more of this 'let's play divisive different games' and politicians telling teachers what to do from this building. We should watch and observe. We should take the data. We should obviously notice when things are going wrong, and we need to respond carefully, but we shouldn't be mandating anything for the multitude of needs that exist in schools across this country.</para>
<para>The current National Schools Reform Agreement was signed off in 2018 by the Morrison government. This is an agreement which with every year that has passed has become an illustration of a wasted decade of missed opportunities in school education. The Productivity Commission was damning in its assessment of that agreement, pointing out last year that the former government's plan lacked real targets and was missing very practical reforms needed to help prevent students from falling behind. The results of 10 years of supposed educational leadership in this place by the Liberal-National parties was that more than 86,000 students were failing to meet either basic literacy or numeracy standards. And why are teachers leaving? Because they're being berated, deprofessionalised and discarded; they're walking away from really powerful and important work because they've been underpaid and underfunded.</para>
<para>As a senator for New South Wales, I want to give a voice to the thanks of my teaching colleagues across that state. They're so happy that there has been a change of government there as well. I want to acknowledge my colleagues there: Prue Carr, the Minister for Education and Early Learning, and Premier Minns, who are going to lead a revolutionary transformation of and lift in investment in our students in that state.</para>
<para>I'm pleased to say that this government here in Canberra is getting on with the job of dealing with the legacy of decline that was accurately documented by Senator Henderson. But it all happened on their watch. We went to the election with a commitment to work with the states and territories on funding, to get every school funded to 100 per cent of its fair funding level. Fairness in funding for every Australian student is simply what we have to do.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senato</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>r SHOEBRIDGE () (): I commend Senator McKim for bringing this motion forward, and I endorse the words of my colleague Senator Allman-Payne in relation to the basic minimum for public schools.</para>
<para>There has been a long discussion about what the National School Reform Agreement should have when it is renegotiated for the next five years. But let's be clear: the Greens say that the minimum standard we will accept for the next National School Reform Agreement is that there be 100 per cent funding of the SRS at the start of the next agreement—that means by January 2025. It's not at the end of the five-year agreement and not halfway through the five-year agreement, but at the start of the agreement that there needs to be 100 per cent of SRS funding.</para>
<para>What is SRS funding? It's the Schooling Resource Standard funding. The Schooling Resource Standard isn't some sort of Rolls-Royce funding; it's the bare minimum funding needed so that 80 per cent of kids who go to that school get across the line. It's not something that we should be looking for aspirationally; it's the bare minimum. I want to be clear, on behalf of the Greens: we say that once we get to 100 per cent of the SRS, we then want to get 100 per cent of the kids across the line and the funding needed to get 100 per cent across the line. The Schooling Resource Standard isn't a kind of aspirational goal; it's the bare minimum. What is absolutely disgusting, from a country that has, broadly, Labor state and Labor federal governments, is that, at the moment, public schools only receive, on average, 87 per cent of that minimum funding—87 per cent! And a big chunk of that of course is from a decade of underfunding from the coalition—a decade of underfunding from the coalition federally. Instead of talking about what public schools really need—which is respect for teachers, pay for teachers and proper funding for schools—we've had the better part of a decade of culture wars from the coalition, trying to rewrite the curriculum from the federal parliament rather than doing the work that the federal parliament should do for public schools, which is to fund our teachers and our schools, and to support our kids going through their education.</para>
<para>Public education is the glue that holds any equitable society together. A fully funded world-class public education system is what marks out equitable, open societies from the sorts of increasingly divided societies we see around the world. As Greens senators, my colleagues and I rate—our team rates—public education as one of those core indicators for the health of any society. While this government—and, let's be clear, also the coalition before them—have done everything they can to come up with every excuse possible to say that they can't meet the bare minimum funding, the rest of the country is looking at this parliament and saying: 'Hang on a minute, you're willing to legislate for stage 3 tax cuts and give a quarter of a trillion dollars largely to those people who already have more than enough. There's a quarter of a trillion to give to people on 200 grand or more, but you don't have the money for public education?' Or the coalition and Labor come together and say, 'We have half a trillion dollars to spend on nuclear submarines', which we don't need and which make us less safe, but, 'we don't have any money for public education', or, 'we can't close the gap on public education'.</para>
<para>Let's look at what that means. That means this parliament is perfectly comfortable with public-school teachers having to buy the basics for their lessons, with public-school teachers having to pay out of their inadequate salaries to get some of their kids some lunch money and with parents across the country increasingly paying for basic teaching tools in public schools because there's not enough money. It's not that there's not enough money; it's that the priorities are cooked. There are tax cuts for the wealthy and nuclear submarines to fund war, but where's the money for public education?</para>
<para>When we're looking forward over the next few months, we're looking at what the next national school reform agreement will put in place. Let's make it 100 per cent funding from day 1 of the agreement. Then the Greens will give it a tick.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the discussion has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>80</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aviation Industry</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that the President has received the following letter, dated 6 September, from Senator Dean Smith:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move "That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The statement by the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission (ACCC) in its final monitoring report into airline competition in Australia that "a further direction to the ACCC would provide continued transparency and scrutiny of the industry at a time when new and expanding airlines are still trying to establish themselves", demonstrates the need for the Albanese Government to take immediate action to protect consumers and promote competition by reinstating the ACCC airline monitoring regime.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I shall ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The statement by the Australian Consumer and Competition Commission (ACCC) in its final monitoring report into airline competition in Australia that "a further direction to the ACCC would provide continued transparency and scrutiny of the industry at a time when new and expanding airlines are still trying to establish themselves", demonstrates the need for the Albanese Government to take immediate action to protect consumers and promote competition by reinstating the ACCC airline monitoring regime.</para></quote>
<para>It's my pleasure to speak to this motion proposed by my friend and colleague Senator Dean Smith, my fellow senator for Western Australia. It's not surprising that Senator Smith proposed this motion, not just because it's in his portfolio area of responsibility but also because my home state of Western Australia is so heavily dependent on the airline industry. Western Australia is—we thank goodness for this, on a regular basis—a long way from anywhere. It's certainly a long way from Canberra, and we remember that every time we fly across the Nullarbor, but it's also a long way from anywhere we travel internationally.</para>
<para>Airlines are essential for Western Australians to achieve their personal goals and their business responsibilities, through internal Western Australian travel, travel throughout Australia and travel internationally. The airline industry plays such an important part in Western Australia taking its rightful place as an economic driver of this country. Competition within that industry, and ensuring that competition is maintained and improved, is vitally important for my home state of Western Australia.</para>
<para>Senator Smith rightly raises the ACCC report into the airline industry, looking at what has happened, particularly post pandemic, in terms of moving back to a point where competition is putting downward pressure on prices, which we all want to see for the flying public. I know Senator Smith will go into this in a lot more detail, but the evidence in that report shows that, whilst recovery is underway, the airline industry is yet to return to the position it was in, in terms of competitive frameworks, pre-pandemic. I'll read you the start of the report. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">More than a year since the end of the final COVID-19 state border restrictions, the domestic airline industry has not yet managed to recover to pre-pandemic levels of passengers and capacity.</para></quote>
<para>I ask those out there listening to this debate to think about that. The report clearly states that the airline industry has not yet fully recovered.</para>
<para>The international market has also, obviously, been in the media quite a bit over the last week, particularly with regard to the government's decision to knock back additional flights from Qatar Airways. What did the ACCC have to say about the international market? It said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While the industry has increased international capacity over the past few months, capacity remains below pre-pandemic levels due in part to delays in aircraft and spare parts shortages. Qantas has also reported that demand for international travel remains strong, leading to a mismatch between demand and supply. This imbalance is putting upward pressure on international airfares.</para></quote>
<para>Anyone who's considered visiting relatives or taking a business flight to one of our major trading partners would know this to be the case. In fact, it's something like 51 per cent above 2019 levels. That is a 51 per cent increase between 2019 and a few months ago. That is an extraordinary increase over a short period of time and reflects a market that requires the examination of government.</para>
<para>This is a market that has a single dominant player in Australia—and I don't want to get into the politics of that, but it does have a single dominant player in Australia—a number of smaller players who are trying to add competition to the market and then an international regime where, again, there are limited opportunities for people to shop around. So we have a competitive framework that is not ideal. As Senator Smith's motion clearly states, the ACCC's role in monitoring the airline industry is an important one and one that should continue. It is passingly strange, in a week when we've seen the government knock back more flights from Qatar, that they are refusing to reinstitute this.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's something new every week in this joint. In addition to the extraordinary explosion we just heard over here, there's something new every week! This newfound interest from the coalition in competition policy is extraordinary, really. It may be that there's a bit of freelancing going on as they jostle with each other. The failure of the coalition to appoint a replacement for Mr Robert has obviously left a yawning gap in their economic capability—a Stuart Robert sized hole in their economic capability—and people are freelancing searching for it.</para>
<para>I heard in question time Senator Brockman, drawing a very long bow, talking about passenger movements into Perth and live sheep exports. There was a stream of consciousness connection of these ideas, as if the application by Qatar were in relation to Perth. There's obviously a bit of a misinformation thing going on in here with Western Australia, and I'm very confident that Senator Smith won't continue with it, because he only ever tells the truth. Qatar's application had nothing to do with Perth. The Qatari flag carrier had been seeking to add 21 flights, or one extra service per day, into Sydney, Melbourne, and Brisbane, not Perth, not the carry-on that we saw earlier as if this had any relationship to what was going on in Western Australia.</para>
<para>Then we found out that this was not the first time that this application had been declined. A previous minister for transport had, in a similar set of negotiations and discussions, declined the application from Qatar in support of its national flag carrier for additional flights. Who was that transport minister? It was Mr McCormack who declined it on the basis of very similar national interest grounds as have been outlined by the current Minister for Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government. So this confected carry-on over the course of this week, as if what is proposed is a sort of free-for-all for which the coalition, if it were in government, would just agree to additional capacity going into Australian airports from a newcomer—that is not the case. It is not the case in terms of any sensible regulation of Australian airlines.</para>
<para>The truth is that the airline industry has been on life support around the world over the course of the last three or four years. Thousands of jets have been furloughed in deserts all across the world. You only had to fly into Alice Springs over the course of 2019, 2020, 2021 or 2022 to see hundreds of big jets parked in the desert as airlines furloughed them. All around the world millions of staff were suspended. Tens of thousands of Australians engaged in our airline sector were suspended and were being supported by the Commonwealth government.</para>
<para>It is true that Australians have been disappointed that our national airline—privately owned, but our national airline—has not met the mark; that is has not met the expectations that customers had of it, that its staff and unions had of it and that, indeed, the Australian government should have had of it. That has been the subject, as it should be, of enormous controversy.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Minister. Senator Smith, a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Dean Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm just curious to know whether in the last 30 seconds Senator Ayres is going to mention the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and the monitoring report.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, there is no point of order. But good try!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What it does is demonstrate Senator Smith's active interest in all of these areas. He's actively engaged in them. None of these other characters are interested in anything but the rhetorical flourish and the opportunism. Don't even get me started on the new-found interest in competition policy over there. I am constantly surprised. But I don't have enough time to get engaged in that particular part of the argument. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak to this urgency motion put forward by the coalition. We all know what is at the core of this motion: the decision of the government to block Qatar Airways from expanding their operations in Australia. This decision directly benefits Qantas, a company that just weeks ago posted its biggest profit ever, after being weeks away from bankruptcy during the pandemic and relying on the government to bail it out. It is a company that is facing seemingly endless complaints about delays, cancellations, poor service, anticompetitive measures and poor working conditions. A company that was once known as 'the spirit of Australia' is becoming known as 'the spirit of corporate greed'.</para>
<para>Following the pandemic, our domestic tourism industry was shattered. This was compounded by the 2019-20 bushfires and major floods in just about every state. We need to support our domestic tourism industry. We need people to be exploring in their own backyard. Because Australia is so large, the reality is that we need air travel to do this—I agree with Senator Brockman's comments—but it's expensive. In a cost-of-living crisis, people can't afford the high fares that we are seeing right now, and this is especially true for my home state of Western Australia.</para>
<para>One way that this could be addressed is through the ACCC's airline monitoring regime—thank you, Senator Smith—to protect consumers and promote competition, because what we are seeing from our national airline is not in the best interests of consumers and is inherently anticompetitive. Thank you to Senator Dean Smith for bringing forward this matter of urgency today. The Greens support it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Those people who are looking at my face might sense a bit of disappointment, although I do thank Senator Cox and Senator Brockman for their contributions. This was an opportunity to rise above all of the noise and all of the discussion that has dominated our media and dominated this place over the last few weeks and provide a concrete course of action to do two things: protect consumers and protect competition. I thank Senator Cox for her remarks and I thank Senator Brockman for his remarks.</para>
<para>How curious that at this time of the debate we usually hear from two Labor senators, but they've decided to put only one Labor senator on this issue this afternoon. To be fair, Senator Ayres is a credible spokesperson, but he did not address the issue. Australians are right to ask: why has Prime Minister Albanese done nothing, despite all of the noise on aviation issues, all of the noise and concrete evidence about abuse of consumers and competition? Why has the government not chosen to do one simple thing, which is to ask the ACCC to continue what the ACCC has been doing for the last three years and continue in further reports on the state of competition? In the very last sentence of the ACCC's 12th report, invites the government, invites the government to continue with the monitoring regime. The ACCC says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A further direction to the ACCC would provide continued transparency and scrutiny of the industry at a time when new and expanding airlines are still trying to establish themselves.</para></quote>
<para>I would like, if the debate went longer, to talk about Qantas, Virgin, Qatar and Emirates, but that's not what's important. This is a tool that improves transparency for legislators, for consumers and for others that are interested. It's no accident that the only people that are opposed to extending the ACCC monitoring regime are—who? The airlines. Some airlines have a fair point about the administrative burden, but let's worry about that after the government takes a concrete step. This is a simple and easy act, and Prime Minister Albanese and the competition minister, Mr Leigh, the member for Fenner, are silent. We have had all this news and all this concern. We've had consumers being ripped off. We've had cancellations, and the government is silent. This could be done overnight. This could be done in the next 30 minutes. We don't know if the Treasurer, Mr Chalmers, or the competition minister, Mr Leigh, have a proposal on their desks at the moment, but if they do, let's act on it. Let's make it happen. It is such an easy thing to do to say to Australian consumers, 'We have heard your concern.'</para>
<para>It is wrong to talk about airline competition in this country in terms of just holidays. People travel interstate, intrastate and internationally. They stay connected with their families not only in good times but also in troubled times. And the diaspora of the Australian community, whether they are the Indians or others, deserve to be able to travel and reconnect and stay connected with their families at fair and reasonable prices. This is a simple thing to do.</para>
<para>Next week, when Senator McKenzie and I bring a bill to the parliament to do what the government will not do, Senator Cox, I hope we can count on your support—not for politics but for consumers and for promoting competition. Senator Roberts, I hope we can count on your support, because transparency is the thing that will keep Australian airlines honest. It will keep the chairmen of their boards honest, and it will keep their CEOs honest. And, more importantly, if we are seeing some positive developments—Rex and Bonza and others—they deserve to be supported. I dispute one of the comments in the ACCC report—they say there is a duopoly in the aviation industry. That is untrue. There is one very dominant market player, and they are called Qantas. There is another player called Virgin, but they are not equal. When people talk about duopolies, the assumption is that they are equal, but they are not equal: one operates with a market share up here, one operates with a market share down here, and the others are trying to get into the market.</para>
<para>We are on the cusp of something very exciting, because the ACCC report says that things are moving in the right direction. The government should act— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the many different people who make up our one Queensland community, I support Senator Smith's matter of urgency motion. The level of corporate cronyism and greed in Australia's airline industry is out of control. COVID was used to change the public's perception of what constitutes fair and reasonable behaviour in the airline industry. Fares are up, service is down and luggage is nowhere to be found. One survey found that Australian airlines managed to lose baggage 10 per cent of the time. Qantas international fares are up 20 per cent in two years. International market share has doubled, and profits have followed airfares up and now stand at $2.47 billion. Despite this, Qantas COVID cancellation credits expire on 30 December. Virgin COVID credits expire on the same date. Is it a mere coincidence?</para>
<para>The ACCC recently charged Qantas with taking bookings on flights that were already cancelled. There's a reason for that. Our established airlines have a legacy allocation of airport landing and take-off gates. In order to restrict competition that may bring down prices, airlines schedule fake flights and sell tickets with no intention of operating that service. By informing customers at the last minute of the cancellation, despite knowing of the cancellation for days or weeks in advance, the airline does three things. Firstly, it keeps that slot out of the hands of a new competitor who may compete with them on price or service. Secondly, it allows airlines to squash passengers into flights that become very profitable. The domestic load in March 2023 was 85 per cent. Thirdly, passengers suffer. Everyday Australians miss connections and lose time away from loved ones. Travellers are left to reorganise holidays on the fly, usually costing them more and taking days off their holiday break.</para>
<para>The predatory billionaires that own Qantas shares are perfectly happy with this. Billionaires use investment funds like BlackRock, Vanguard and First State in order to turn Qantas or, more accurately, everyday Australians, into cash cows. As long as they can use restrictive trade practices, like nobbling competitors, as they did with the recent Qatar airlines decision, and as long as they can get away with hogging landing and departure slots, their dividends will grow.</para>
<para>From where do these excess profits come? Everyday Australians of course. Taxpayers contribute yet more. Qantas took $900 million in JobKeeper payments during COVID and, despite record profits, kept them. The ACCC should look at all of these things, not just pricing. The power of parasitic billionaires must be cancelled out through strong government and regulatory action to restore honest competition, ending crony capitalism through restoring free markets and real competition.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians are currently paying more for airfares. Reliability is going down. Flight cancellations are up and flights are less frequent. The fact of the matter is that we are now seeing higher airfares and fewer seats on international flights than before COVID. The Albanese government is failing Australian families and businesses by deliberately exempting Qantas, Virgin and the wider aviation sector from its recently announced review of competition policy.</para>
<para>The result of taking ACCC eyes off areas as important as aviation can be seen by what we have seen from our national carrier in recent times. The sorry story of Qantas as it stands today should be a lesson to all corporate entities, but also a lesson as to why it's important to have ACCC monitoring. Their once widely respected reputation is currently pretty trashed. First it started with the refusal of Qantas to allow Qatar additional flights into Australia—allegedly at the blackballing of the Qantas CEO. Then we saw Qantas standing on the moral high ground handing out free seats to 'yes' campaigners for the referendum. Meanwhile they cancelled nearly every flight I had been booked on in the last couple of weeks. That should have been enough to make people think. Then they saw the eye-watering bonus being handed to the departing CEO, who is actually still getting paid as much of a bonus even though he has brought forward his resignation. The poor incoming CEO, who probably thought she was getting the gold-standard job, is now faced with having to rebuild trust as a priority.</para>
<para>The absolute icing on the cake in the saga of Qantas is when the totally independent ACCC announced that it was taking court action, alleging Qantas had advertised, booked and taken money for flights that it already knew it had cancelled. That is what ACCC monitoring can highlight. That's what it can expose. The ACCC has alleged that, for more than 8,000 flights scheduled to depart between May and July 2022, Qantas kept selling tickets on its website for up to 47 days after it had already cancelled flights. People who booked on those flights know only too well the inconvenience, the frustration and the cost of doing business. Qantas treated its customers not as a loyal and valued part of the Qantas family but as disposable and dispensable ticket buyers. This is from a company whose brand was once 24-carat gold in the eyes of the world.</para>
<para>In all of this, the Prime Minister would appear to have been hoodwinked, because he's never missed an opportunity to be seen in the company of the now departed Qantas CEO, and he has fallen hook, line and sinker for the proposal by the aviation industry: 'We don't need to be monitored by the ACCC. We are all good corporate citizens.' Well, Qantas hasn't been acting as a good corporate citizen in recent days.</para>
<para>As important a business to Australia as Qantas is—and in the past it never shied away from competition, either domestic or international—it has become a corporate bully. It should be willing to compete strongly and successfully with the best of international and domestic airlines. I hope the new CEO rises to that challenge and I hope the board, bruised and battered from handing out a $24 million golden handshake, might realise that they need to turn the tables.</para>
<para>Australia does need Qantas. We need Virgin. We need others. We need competition. We need Rex. I need Rex because I fly regionally. We need healthy competition, we need transparency and we need monitoring, and the best way to assure us that we are getting that is to have the ACCC continue its scrutiny and monitoring of the industry as part of its competition roles and responsibilities.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm pleased to speak on this urgency motion today because, as an accountant who measures things all the time, I know that what gets measured gets improved and that what gets watched and is transparent improves its performance. Yet here we have another example of the Albanese government failing to uphold the principles of transparency and accountability. Why on earth would you exempt a company like Qantas, which has a very large market share and dominates the market here in Australia, from ACCC monitoring? Why would you do that? The Prime Minister could step in if he wanted to and hold Qantas accountable—and, if any company needs to be held accountable at the moment, it is Qantas. There have been so many abuses of market share and market privilege by Qantas recently that it really needs to be called out for its intolerable behaviour, not the least of which is that it has been taking bookings for flights that have already been cancelled. That is just shocking.</para>
<para>Last week, we found out that they had to reverse the decision they'd made not to honour the $500 million in credits owed to people as a result of the COVID crisis, when people had to cancel their flights. Qantas decided to put an arbitrary deadline for when you had to use your own credits—I think it was the end of this year—or you would just lose them. This is Qantas, which got bailed out by the taxpayer, as many big corporations did. Yet again, the big end of town always milks these catastrophes, or so-called catastrophes, for their own gain. I thought the point of democracy was to stand up for the little guy against the big guy, but that's not the case anymore in this country. No, it's always the big guy who gets the free handouts. I thought the Labor Party used to stand up for the little guy—the battlers—but it's not interested in doing that. This Prime Minister is more interested in wining and dining with the big end of town than he is in protecting the little guy—the little guy who wants to fly to another state to see his grandmother or grandfather, or to go to his mate's wedding.</para>
<para>Why can't we have a system whereby we get a fair go in this country for the people who want to travel? It's a big country; we need genuine competition in airfares in this country and we're not getting it. What's the relationship between the Prime Minister and the former CEO—as of five o'clock today, an hour ago—Alan Joyce? Why did Alan Joyce give our Prime Minister's son access to the Chairman's Lounge? What was going on there? What was going on with the Emirates deal? Was that all done so that Qantas would then give free flights to all these people who want to fly around the country with the Voice? Is this something that we need to refer to ICAC, where the Prime Minister has actually done a deal with Mr Joyce in order to influence the outcome of the referendum? That is a question that needs to be asked.</para>
<para>The other issue that we need to highlight is their consistent pattern of failing to inform the Australian people properly. We need to shine a light on the functions of the Albanese government, because this isn't the only time that we have seen the Albanese government not wanting to come clean on how the country is being run. I know that my colleague here in the chamber Senator Cadell has tried to get an inquiry up about the impact of transmission lines on the environment, we have asked for details on aged care and we have asked for the minutes from National Cabinet. Prime Minister Albanese said that if he got into government he would release the minutes of National Cabinet and he hasn't done that.</para>
<para>He also said that he would lower electricity prices. We want the Productivity Commission report on electricity prices under standard benchmarking. Did he support that? No. That's another example of where he doesn't want to be transparent about the way this country is run. The other thing that he said was that he'd have a royal commission into COVID. Has he honoured that pledge? No. That's another example of the Prime Minister not being fully transparent and accountable to the Australian people. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>85</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Scrutiny Digest</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CADELL</name>
    <name.id>300134</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator Dean Smith, I present <inline font-style="italic">Scrutiny digest</inline> No. 10 of 2023 of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills, dated 6 September 2023, together with ministerial correspondence. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, I present the report of the committee on the provisions of the Australian Capital Territory (Self-Government Amendment) Bill 2023, together with accompanying documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Delegated Legislation Monitor</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHITE</name>
    <name.id>IWK</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of the Senate Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I present <inline font-style="italic">Delegated legislat</inline><inline font-style="italic">ion monitor</inline><inline font-style="italic"> No. 9</inline><inline font-style="italic"> of 2023.</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Select Committee on Commonwealth Bilateral Air Service Agreements</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received letters from the Leader of the Government in the Senate and the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate nominating senators to be members of the Select Committee on Commonwealth Bilateral Air Service Agreements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROW</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>N (—) (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the senators be appointed to the Select Committee on Commonwealth Bilateral Air Service Agreements as set out in the document available in the chamber and listed on the Dynamic Red.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>85</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Foreign Bribery) Bill 2023, Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Australia's Engagement in the Pacific) Bill 2023, Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>85</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7055" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Foreign Bribery) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7071" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Australia's Engagement in the Pacific) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security and Other Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>85</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>86</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The speech</inline> <inline font-style="italic">es</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> read as follows</inline> <inline font-style="italic">—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">CRIMES LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (COMBATTING FOREIGN BRIBERY) BILL 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Foreign Bribery) Bill 2023 will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code</inline> and the <inline font-style="italic">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 </inline>tostrengthen the legal framework for prosecuting foreign bribery. The measures in the Bill seek to address key challenges with investigating and prosecuting cases of foreign bribery in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in the Bill will look familiar to many members of this Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That is because Schedule 1 of this Bill is in substantially the same form as Schedule 1 of the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Corporate Crime) Bill 2019—which was, in turn, in substantially the same form as Schedule 1 of the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Corporate Crime) Bill 2017.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On two occasions—across two Parliaments and over a period of 5 years—the previous government introduced a Bill to strengthen the legal framework for prosecuting foreign bribery. But on two occasions, the previous government allowed those Bills to lapse. Those Bills were never put to a vote, despite measures like those contained in Schedule 1 of this Bill enjoying bipartisan support over many years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is my hope that those opposite will work with the Government to complete the work that they commenced when they were on this side of the Chamber by supporting this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign bribery is a serious and insidious problem across the world. At a local level, it can harm communities by increasing the costs and reducing the quality of vital public goods and services for citizens, skewing competition and misallocating precious resources. At a macro level, it impedes economic development, corrodes good governance and undermines the rule of law. Further, bribery by Australians and Australian businesses damages our international standing and can shrink the global market for Australian exports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As the Australian Institute of Company Directors told the Senate Committee that inquired into the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Corporate Crime) Bill 2019, "[f]oreign bribery and corruption causes significant harm to the governance of societies and economies abroad, as well as distorting competition and the integrity of markets".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a signatory to the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention, Australia is required to ensure that our laws are effective in holding natural and legal persons to account for foreign bribery. In 1999, Australia gave effect to these obligations by enacting the current foreign bribery offence in Division 70 of the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code</inline>. Over time, that offence has proven to be overly prescriptive and difficult to use. The measures in this Bill have been carefully developed and targeted to overcome these issues, to ensure our legislative framework adequately deters and punishes the corrupt practice of foreign bribery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the current foreign bribery offence, the prosecution needs to show that both the bribe and the business advantage sought were 'not legitimately due'. This presents challenges where bribes are concealed as legitimate payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To address this, the Bill replaces this requirement with the concept of 'improperly influencing' a foreign public official to better reflect the type of conduct involved in foreign bribery. The Bill amends the definition of 'foreign public official' to also include candidates for public office.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also broadens the scope of the foreign bribery offence to capture bribery conducted to obtain a personal advantage, not a <inline font-style="italic">business</inline><inline font-style="italic">advantage</inline>. This is because, as the experience of law enforcement agencies has shown, a bribe could be in a range of different forms—such as the include the bestowal of a personal honour, the processing of a visa request, or a reduction in an individual's personal tax liability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also removes the existing requirement that, for the offence to be established, the foreign public official must be influenced in the exercise of their official duties. The Bill also clarifies that the offence does not require the accused to have had a specific business or advantage in mind, and that the business or advantage can be obtained for someone else.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most significantly, the Bill creates a new offence for corporations that fail to prevent foreign bribery, which carries a maximum penalty of $27.5 million or higher.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This measure holds companies directly liable for the foreign bribery activities of their employees, external contractors, agents and subsidiaries, unless the business can demonstrate that they had adequate procedures in place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The United Kingdom has successfully used a similar offence to prosecute companies in several foreign bribery cases, which has reportedly had a significant and positive influence on the adoption of more effective corporate compliance programs to prevent bribery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To support the introduction of this new offence, guidance material on what constitutes 'adequate procedures' to avoid criminal liability will be published. The Bill requires me, as the responsible Minister, to publish guidance on the types of measures that are likely to constitute 'adequate procedures' within 6 months of Royal Assent of the Bill. The draft Guidance will largely be modelled on the UK Government's Guidance that accompanies the 'failure to prevent' offence under section 7 of the UK Bribery Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In finalising the Guidance material over the coming months, the Government will build on the work that was undertaken—but never completed—by the previous government in 2019 and 2020.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will also have regard to existing guidance published by the Australian Trade Commission, the OECD and other international organisations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is intended to enable Australian companies that have already framed their anti-bribery policies on international guidelines to easily incorporate additional policies relevant to the Australian context.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to the measures contained in this Bill, the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Corporate Crime) Bill 2019 would have introduced a Deferred Prosecution Agreement Scheme. This Bill contains no such scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The purpose of a Deferred Prosecution Scheme is to strike a balance between encouraging companies to self-report serious offending and holding companies to account for serious corporate crime. However, given that the is universal agreement that the existing foreign bribery offences in the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code </inline>are grossly inadequate, it is premature to entertain the introduction of a Deferred Prosecution Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of such a Scheme should only be entertained after the measures in this Bill have been enacted and given time to work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When ordinary Australians commit crimes, they feel the full force of the law. However, under the Deferred Prosecution Agreement scheme proposed by the former government, companies that engaged in serious corporate crime, including foreign bribery, would have been able to negotiate a fine, agree to a set of conditions and have their cases put on indefinite hold.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in the Bill will strengthen Australia's implementation and enforcement of the OECD<inline font-style="italic"> Convention on Combating Bribery of Foreign Public Officials in International Business Transactions</inline> and the United Nations <inline font-style="italic">Convention against Corruption</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In December 2021, the OECD found that Australia had increased its enforcement efforts against companies and subsequently upgraded Australia under the relevant recommendation. Introduction of this Bill will further enhance our enforcement efforts under the Anti-Bribery Convention.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government takes corruption very seriously—whether it is corruption in the public sector or the private sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In July 2023, the National Anti-Corruption Commission will be established to investigate and report on serious or systemic corruption in the Commonwealth public sector, refer evidence of criminal corrupt conduct for prosecution and undertake education and prevention activities regarding corruption. The Combatting Foreign Bribery Bill enhances Australia's response to foreign bribery and supports our obligations under the OECD Anti-Bribery Convention.This Bill demonstrates the Government's commitment to combatting foreign bribery and ensuring our laws are effective in detecting, investigating and prosecuting foreign bribery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SOCIAL SECURITY AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (MISCELLANEOUS MEASURES) BILL 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill makes some technical amendments to Chapter 2D of the Social Security Act, which provides legislative authority for spending on grants and arrangements to help people obtain and maintain paid work, to address labour shortages, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chapter 2D was introduced in April 2022. Its purpose was to provide more streamlined and transparent legislative authority for spending on such assistance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">More specifically, Chapter 2D was intended to provide more streamlined legislative authority than that provided by section 32B of the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Act 1997 (the </inline><inline font-style="italic">FF</inline><inline font-style="italic">SP</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Act), </inline>without changing processes and requirements for the establishment and oversight of programs supported by Chapter 2D.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chapter 2D was introduced by the former Government as part of the Social Security Legislation Amendment (Streamlined Participation Requirements and Other Measures) Bill 2022. The explanatory memorandum stated that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"all Chapter 20 does is provide statutory authority for expenditure ... All of the usual processes and requirements for the establishment and oversight of such programs will remain unchanged."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments in this Bill will ensure that this original intent is achieved by making it clear that regardless of whether a program derives its legislative authority from Chapter 2D or elsewhere, the processes and requirements for the establishment and oversight of the program will be the same. That was always the intention of Chapter 2D.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While Chapter 2D is achieving its purpose, its operation will be improved through the technical amendments in this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will ensure that where new or updated legislative authority is needed for programs that help people to obtain and maintain paid work, it is available in the best possible way.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the chamber.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SOCIAL SERVICES AND OTHER LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (AUSTRALIA'S ENGAGEMENT IN THE PACIFIC) BILL 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">The Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Australia's Engagement in the Pacific) Bill 2023 </inline>will establish the legislative power to extend a range of government supports and benefits to Pacific Engagement Visa holders and eligible Pacific Australia Labour Mobility (PALM) scheme families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will provide immediate access for Pacific Engagement Visa holders to higher education and VET student loans, financial supports while studying and training, and Family Tax Benefit Part A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will also extend access to Family Tax Benefits and Child Care Subsidy for families participating in family accompaniment under the PALM scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill reflects Australia's special relationship with the Pacific and Timor-Leste.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Government has said before that Australia's central message to the Pacific is that we are here to listen, we are here to work together, and we are here to make a difference.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill puts words to action.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures contained in the Bill extend support and benefits to Pacific Engagement Visa holders, so that participants have the opportunity to not just settle in Australia, but to pursue education opportunities and flourish in their new communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The new Pacific Engagement Visa is designed to grow the Pacific and Timor-Leste diaspora in Australia with ongoing connections to their home country, deepening our ties to the region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also delivers on the Government's commitment to expand and improve the PALM scheme by introducing family accompaniment, beginning with a pilot of 200 families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Workers under the PALM scheme provide essential support to Australia's economy, often in critical sectors, including in aged care and agriculture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But to do so, many leave their families behind for months or years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PALM scheme family accompaniment will permit workers on one to four-year placements to bring their immediate family to Australia, with the support of their employer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill means that PALM scheme workers participating in family accompaniment will be able to access benefits to support them with the costs of raising a family and enable full participation of spouses in the workforce, if they choose to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It recognises the invaluable contribution that people from the Pacific and Timor-Leste make to Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And addresses the under-representation of some of Australia's closest neighbours and partners in our migration program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It brings to the fore the importance Australia places on our relationships with the countries of this region, and upholds our commitment to strengthening ties with the Pacific family.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pacific Engagement Visa</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This package of legislation builds on two related Bills introduced by my colleague Minister Giles to establish a pre-application ballot process for prospective Pacific Engagement Visa holders, and charge a small fee to enter the ballot.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Collectively, these Bills represent a significant step towards delivering on the Government's commitment to introduce a new Pacific Engagement Visa—a ground-breaking, signature initiative of our plan to build a stronger Pacific family.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Pacific Engagement Visa is a substantive expression of the value Australia places on its relationship with the Pacific family and has been welcomed by the Pacific.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the Pacific Engagement Visa will address longstanding concerns of Pacific countries about limited migration pathways to one of their closest neighbours.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Less than one per cent of Australia's permanent migrant intake is from Pacific countries, which is disappointing given our proximity and many shared values.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Pacific Engagement Visa will establish a permanent resident visa program for participating countries across the Pacific and Timor-Leste.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3,000 visas, inclusive of partners and dependent children, will be allocated annually through a ballot process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">While the ballot process has been the subject of debate already in this chamber, I cannot overemphasise the importance of the ballot process to delivering on the objectives of the program. A ballot process ensures fair and transparent access, and gives equal chance to higher and lower skilled applicants, ensuring we do not deprive Pacific countries of skills and talent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This approach has been welcomed by Pacific partners during consultations. It provides broad access for Pacific and Timor-Leste citizens, including for applicants from remote and economically disadvantaged islands and regions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Eligible participants aged 18 to 45 will register in the ballot. If drawn from the ballot, they can then apply for the Pacific Engagement Visa and include their partner and dependent children in their application.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Being drawn in the ballot does not automatically mean a visa will be granted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be granted a visa, those drawn from the ballot will then need to apply and show that they meet the relevant criteria before being granted a visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Those drawn or their partners will need to have an ongoing job offer in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There will also be basic English language, health and character requirements for applicants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government has consulted widely with Pacific leaders to ensure the program meets the shared needs and priorities of our Pacific and Timor-Leste partners, and removes barriers for low- and semi-skilled workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a key ask of the Pacific, and the ballot and the measures contained in this Bill respond to this ask.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A key measure of success will be the growth of a flourishing diaspora with opportunities for education and skills development and career progression.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures outlined in the Bill will support this shared objective ensuring Pacific Engagement Visa holders are afforded basic levels of economic security when settling in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pacific Engagement Visa Support Measures</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To help eligible Pacific Engagement Visa holders and their families, the Bill will introduce measures that assist with the cost of raising a family and ease the financial burden of undertaking further education.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991</inline> to provide an exemption to the newly arrived resident's waiting period for Pacific Engagement Visa holders' access to Austudy and Youth Allowance, while studying or completing an apprenticeship.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also amends <inline font-style="italic">A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999</inline> to provide an exemption to the newly arrived resident's waiting period for Pacific Engagement Visa holders for Family Tax Benefit Part A.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know the power of education and upskilling, and so supporting access to our world class education and training system for the Pacific family is a top priority.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's why the Bill also amends the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act 2003</inline> to extend the Higher Education Loan Program or HELP to Pacific Engagement Visa holders.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It also amends the <inline font-style="italic">VET Student Loans Act 2016</inline> to extend eligibility for holders of the Pacific Engagement Visa.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These initiatives will open pathways for lower skilled and low-income applicants to upskill, and enable career progression and economic mobility. This will be good for individuals and families, Australian employers and regional economies and communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Providing access on arrival to Family Tax Benefit Part A demonstrates our commitment to growing a flourishing diaspora from a diverse range of backgrounds and skills. The waiving of the one-year waiting period will also provide immediate access to Rent Assistance and the Health Care Card for eligible families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The inclusion of HELP and VET student loans for PEV holders will be transformative.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Providing immediate access to Youth Allowance for students and apprentices is an important step to ensuring Pacific Engagement Visa holders can meaningfully engage with Australia's quality education and vocational training sectors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We expect these reforms will result in more Pacific islanders participating in Australia's domestic education system than ever before.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By supporting participation in our education system, we are saying to our Pacific family: 'We support your ambition to further your education and the opportunities that this will bring you, your families and future generations of Pacific diaspora in Australia'.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will mean Pacific Engagement Visa holders are better equipped to participate in the job market and contribute to both the Australian economy and their Pacific communities through remittances or during periods living back home, should they wish to do so.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PALM scheme</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PALM scheme allows approved employers to recruit workers from nine Pacific countries and Timor-Leste to address labour shortages in rural and regional areas. It includes short term, seasonal work placements of up to nine months, and long-term placements between one to four years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PALM scheme is highly valued by Australia, the Pacific and Timor-Leste. It delivers wins for workers, communities, Pacific countries and Australian businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And it addresses youth unemployment, supports economic integration of our region and draws our societies together.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The scheme is an important part of a wider package of measures designed to deepen Australia's ties with the Pacific and build a stronger and more united Pacific family.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">PALM scheme workers are reliable and productive, ensuring businesses can continue to run and support their communities when there are not enough local workers available.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And they make a positive contribution in their communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fijian workers in Swan Hill have joined the Country Fire Authority as volunteer fire fighters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In Stawell, ni-Vanuatu workers spend time in the community visiting the elderly and people living with disabilities, helping them with general chores like gardening and moving furniture.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And during the flooding in Lismore, PALM scheme workers volunteered to be part of the rescue effort, working with the SES to rescue people trapped by flood waters and get them safely to evacuation centres.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The PALM scheme also, importantly, helps support the economic development of Pacific countries and Timor-Leste through remittances.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have already delivered on our commitment to expand the PALM scheme. The total number of Pacific and Timor-Leste workers in Australia has risen from over 24,000 a year ago to more than 39,000 today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And we will continue to expand the scheme, responsibly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">New investments in skills development will deliver more training opportunities—helping PALM scheme workers return home with important skills and qualifications to contribute to their home economies and communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Over the next six months, we will welcome 500 new workers in the aged care sector who will complete a Certificate III in Individual Support (Ageing), while working as carers in aged care homes in rural and regional Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before the last election, as part of our plan for a stronger Pacific family, we announced that families would be able join PALM scheme workers in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This arose from feedback from Pacific countries and Timor-Leste and their workers regarding the negative social impacts of extended periods of family separation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, workers on long-term placements can spend up to four years in Australia filling critical roles that employers cannot find local labour to fill. This means they are separated from their partners and children back home for an extended period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Family accompaniment will allow these workers to bring their immediate families to Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will start with 200 families and carefully monitor, evaluate, adjust and refine the program to ensure that family accompaniment is delivering for everyone.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Any workers seeking to bring their families to Australia will need the agreement of their employer and will need to have been approved as participants in family accompaniment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They will also need to meet additional program criteria to be eligible to participate, particularly in the initial stage.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Workers participating in the pilot will need to have spent 12 months in Australia prior to their families arriving. This means that the workers will have already completed the newly arrived resident's waiting period for Family Tax Benefit Part A prior to families arriving. After 12 months, PALM scheme workers will also be familiar with life in Australia and will be able to help their family settle into their communities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that for family accompaniment to be successful, partners and children will need to feel part of their local communities, whether through work, study, or other community involvement. That is why accompanying family members will be able to take up paid work and children will be able to go to school. For some families, the opportunity for their children to benefit from an Australian education will be an important factor in their participation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the most recent budget, we announced that workers and their families participating in the family accompaniment pilot will also be able to access Medicare. This will support families to receive the health care they need during their time in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to supporting the welfare of PALM scheme families. We will be providing a range of settlement and welfare support to help families transition smoothly to life and work in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's in nobody's interests for PALM scheme workers or their families to be inadequately supported during their time in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an important part of the support the Government is providing to PALM.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will amend the <inline font-style="italic">A New Tax System (Family Assistance) Act 1999</inline> to enable eligible PALM scheme workers and their families in Australia under the family accompaniment initiative to access Family Tax Benefit Parts A and B and associated payments; and the Child Care Subsidy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These measures will support eligible PALM scheme families while they are raising children in Australia. These measures will also reduce the barriers to workforce participation for partners of PALM scheme workers, by ensuring the cost of childcare does not act as a disincentive.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have prioritised those payments of most importance to lower income families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Conclusion</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Closer engagement between Australia and Pacific island countries deepens our people-to-people connections and enriches our communities and countries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As a member of the Pacific family, Australia is committed to working with all countries in the Pacific and Timor-Leste to achieve our shared aspirations and address our shared challenges.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an important step towards delivering on our commitment to strengthen the Pacific family by supporting a flourishing Pacific diaspora in Australia, deepening connections with the countries of the Pacific and Timor-Leste.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We will look back on this moment as a critical advancement in our relationship with the Pacific. A moment when Australia took steps to address a major shortcoming in our migration program—the under-representation of some our closest neighbours, those we consider family.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These initiatives will strengthen our links with the Pacific family and deepen our ties to the region that is our home, and that is critical to our future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Chamber.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Higher Education Support Amendment (Response to the Australian Universities Accord Interim Report) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>91</page.no>
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            <a href="r7060" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Higher Education Support Amendment (Response to the Australian Universities Accord Interim Report) Bill 2023</span>
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            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>91</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>91</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hans</inline><inline font-style="italic">ard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">In November last year, the Minister for Education appointed Professor Mary O'Kane AC to lead the biggest and broadest review of Australia's higher education system in 15 years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Professor O'Kane is the former Vice Chancellor of the University of Adelaide. She was also the first woman to become the Dean of Engineering at any university in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">She is an extraordinary Australian and she leads an extraordinary team in this important task.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The other members of the Accord team are:</para></quote>
<list>Professor Barney Glover AO, Vice-Chancellor of Western Sydney University;</list>
<list>Ms Shemara Wikramanayake, the first female Managing Director and Chief Executive Officer of Macquarie Group;</list>
<list>the Hon. Jenny Macklin AC, former Minister for Families, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs, and more recently the Chair of a review into Victoria's post-secondary education and training system;</list>
<list>Professor Larissa Behrendt AO, the first Indigenous Australian to graduate from Harvard Law School. A professor of law and the director of research and academic programs at the Jumbunna Institute for Indigenous Education and Research at the University of Technology Sydney. Larissa was also the Chair of the 2012 Review of Higher Education Access and Outcomes for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People;</list>
<quote><para class="block">and</para></quote>
<list>the Hon Fiona Nash, a former Senator for New South Wales, a former Minister for Regional Development, Regional Communications and Local Government and Territories and now Australia's first Regional Education Commissioner.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Together, they bring to bear enormous experience in our universities, in business and in public policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And a mix of experience in STEM and humanities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From our cities and our regions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From across the political divide.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Their terms of reference are also broad. They are looking at everything from access to affordability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From teaching quality to research.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From governance and employment conditions to how higher education and vocational education and training can and should work more closely together.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Interim Report was released on 19 July 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is an important first step.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What it says is that in the decades ahead more jobs will require a university qualification.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">36 per cent of the current Australian workforce has a university qualification today.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Interim Report estimates that could jump to 55 percent by the middle of this century.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's a rough estimate but it gives the Parliament an idea of the skills challenge we face in the years and decades ahead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And what the Accord team argues in this report is that the only way to so significantly boost the percentage of the workforce with a university qualification is to significantly increase the number of students who are currently under-represented in our universities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Students from our outer suburbs and the regions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Students from poor backgrounds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Students with a disability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And Indigenous students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today almost one in two Australians in their late 20s and early 30s has a university degree.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But not everywhere.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the outer suburbs of our major cities, only 23 per cent of young adults have a university degree.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the regions it is 13 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Only 15 per cent of young adults from poor families have a degree.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And if you are a young Indigenous Australian, it's even lower again. Only 7 per cent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If you are a young Indigenous man today you are more likely to go to jail than university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What this report says is we need to fix this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">All of this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Not just because it's the right thing to do, but because it's what we have to do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If we don't—if we don't significantly boost the number of students from the outer suburbs and the regions and other under-represented groups—we won't have the skills we need, and the workforce we will need, in the years ahead.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This report is in two parts. The first part sets priorities for immediate action. It makes five recommendations and says the Government should act on these now, ahead of its final report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When he report was released, the Government confirmed it would implement all five recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This legislation is necessary to implement two of those.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The five recommendations in the Interim Report are as follows<inline font-style="italic">:</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. that we create more university study hubs—not only in the regions, but in our outer suburbs;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. that we scrap the "50 per cent pass rule", and require better reporting on how students are progressing;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. that we extend the demand driven funding currently provided to Indigenous students from regional and remote areas—to cover all Indigenous students;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4. that we provide funding certainty during the Accord process by extending the Higher Education Continuity Guarantee into 2024 and 2025—with funding arrangements that prioritise support for equity students;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5. that we work with states and territory governments, through the National Cabinet, to improve university governance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will implement all of these recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to Recommendation One, we will double the number of university study hubs. There are currently 34 in regional Australia. We will establish 20 more in the regions and for the first time establish 14 in outer suburbs of our major cities where the percentage of people with a university qualification is low.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to the Fourth Recommendation, we will extend the Higher Education Continuity Guarantee into 2024 and 2025.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And as part of that we will require universities to use any funding remaining from their grant each year on things like enabling courses and extra academic and learning support for students from poor backgrounds, from the regions, and other under-represented groups.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to the Fifth Recommendation, we will work with the states and the territories on improving university governance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education wrote to the Ministers responsible for higher education in each State and Territory to convene a working group which will be led by Ben Rimmer, the Deputy Secretary—Higher Education, Research and International in the Department of Education. Its job will be to provide advice to the Minister for Education and other Ministers on the immediate actions to be taken to improve university governance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There are three areas this working group will focus on.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. Ensuring universities are good employers providing a supportive workplace—and importantly a workplace where staff can have confidence that they will not be underpaid for the important work they do.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Making sure governing bodies have the right expertise, including in the business of running universities; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. And of critical importance—making sure our universities are safe for students and staff.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The 2021 National Student Safety Survey found that one in 20 students had been sexually assaulted since starting university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that one in six had been sexually harassed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The actions universities have taken to address this to date have not been good enough.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have the research. We have the evidence. We know the scope of the problem.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We have to act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education met with members of the STOP campaign on 2 August 2023. A group of remarkable young women led by Camille. They told the Minister for Education that in residential colleges there is no consistency of process to make a complaint.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No easily available materials to inform students how to make a complaint.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No formal feedback process once a complaint is made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And no support to produce and distribute the educational materials that they have created.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Camille and her colleagues didn't just feel unheard—they felt blocked.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As part of establishing this working group on university governance, on 9 August 2023 the Minister for Education appointed Patty Kinnersly, an expert on prevention and response to sexual harassment and sexual violence and the CEO of Our Watch, to join the group.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ms Kinnersly will be part of the working group that will provide advice to the Minister for Education and other Education Ministers on the actions which should be taken and the measures which should be implemented to improve student and staff safety on campus, including in the variety of student accommodation settings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education has also asked the Department of Education to make sure the working group consults with groups like STOP, End Rape on Campus and Fair Agenda.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is serious about this. On this point the broader work being done by the Minister for Social Services on the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children is also noted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's recommendations one, four and five of the Interim Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill itself implements recommendations two and three.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In response to Recommendation Two, it amends the <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Support Act</inline> to remove the requirement that students pass 50 per cent of the units they study to remain eligible for a Commonwealth Supported Place and FEE-HELP assistance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The former government introduced this rule as part of its Job-Ready Graduates package and it has seen a disproportionate number of students from poor backgrounds being forced to leave university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">More than 13,000 students at 27 universities have been hit by this in the past two years, mostly from disadvantaged backgrounds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Western Sydney University has said that this year alone 1,350 students have lost their funding and withdrawn from their courses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We should be helping students to succeed—not forcing them to quit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill requires that universities and other providers have in place a dedicated plan—a Support for Students Policy—under which they will be required to proactively identify students who are at risk of falling behind and set out what they will do to help them succeed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These Policies will cover matters like:</para></quote>
<list>processes for identifying students who need help;</list>
<list>assessing a student's academic and non-academic suitability for continuing study, particularly where they have triggered an alert;</list>
<list>connecting students to support—and identifying students who are not engaging with support before their census date wherever possible;</list>
<list>providing sufficient non-academic supports for students, such as financial assistance, housing information and mental health supports—this is important because many students struggle because of non-academic issues;</list>
<list>having appropriate crisis and critical harm response arrangements;</list>
<list>providing access to trained academic development advisors who can help a student identify what's holding them back and come up with the right response for that student;</list>
<list>ensuring that academic and non-academic supports are age and culturally appropriate, including specific arrangements for Indigenous students;</list>
<list>proactively offering "special circumstances" arrangements where a provider is aware of a significant life event for a student;</list>
<list>providing access to targeted individual literacy, numeracy and other academic supports;</list>
<list>providing provider-driven and evidence based additional support such as peer support; and</list>
<list>and targeted in-course support from academic staff, such as check-ins and flexibility on assessment arrangements.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Education has released a Consultation Paper on the proposed content of the Support for Students Policies. That proposed content will form part of mandatory obligations in the Higher Education Provider Guidelines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will also be backed by financial penalties for those institutions that don't meet these obligations. This bill provides for a civil penalty of 60 penalty units for non-compliance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities and other providers will also be required to regularly report to the Department of Education on the effectiveness of their policies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition to these measures, the Minister for Education has written to the Higher Education Standards Panel asking that the Panel consider the effectiveness of the current <inline font-style="italic">Higher Education Standards Framework (Threshold Standards) 2021</inline> in supporting students, and that they provide him with advice on matters such as:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. whether current thresholds are sufficiently detailed to cover issues like student retention, completion and success;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. ensuring universities are appropriately implementing the threshold standards; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. ensuring students know what protections and supports are already available to them—protections like the ability to obtain refunds where their university has failed to properly assess their ability to undertake a course, or has let them take on too heavy a workload. Or where a student has had to discontinue a course for reasons beyond their control.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister for Education has also asked the Panel to advise what can be done to improve the standards currently in place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is all part of ensuring students are set up to succeed when they attend one of our universities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Removing the "50 per cent pass rule" has been called for by universities right across the country.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities like the University of Adelaide, Monash University, the University of Technology Sydney, the University of the Sunshine Coast, University of New England, the Queensland University of Technology and Western Sydney University.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By way of example, Universities Australia has described it as a "<inline font-style="italic">punitive measure</inline><inline font-style="italic">…</inline><inline font-style="italic"> widely rega</inline><inline font-style="italic">rded as being unnecessarily harsh</inline>", and noted that "<inline font-style="italic">the students most likely to fall afoul of the 50 per cent pass rule are first year students from low socio-economic status backgrounds</inline>". They have welcomed this recommendation and the Government's plan to implement it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Innovative Research Universities also called the rule "<inline font-style="italic">punitive</inline>" and congratulated the Government in moving to abolish it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The other Accord priority action addressed in this bill, Recommendation Three, is to ensure all Indigenous students are eligible for a funded place at a public university if they meet the entry requirements for the course.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means that where a student meets the entry requirements for a course, they are able to access support in the form of a Commonwealth Supported Place and a HELP loan.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's a proven mechanism to increase access to university for under-represented groups.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the current legislation, only Indigenous students from regional and remote Australia can access demand driven places.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In other words, it applies to students who live in Townsville, but not Logan. If you live in Armidale, but not Mount Druitt. If you live in Port Hedland, but not Perth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill means that demand driven places for bachelor level courses (excluding medicine) will now be available to all Indigenous students, wherever they live.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Department of Education estimates this could double the number of Indigenous students at university within a decade.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is another reform strongly supported by universities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities like the Australian National University, University of Queensland, Western Sydney University Macquarie University, James Cook University, University of Southern Queensland, University of Melbourne, University of Adelaide, Queensland University of Technology and the University of Technology Sydney.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Universities Australia said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"<inline font-style="italic">Universities have long called for uncapped places for all Indigenous students, and the removal of barriers to a university education for students from under-represented backgrounds, which the </inline><inline font-style="italic">creation of more study hubs will help facilitate</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">, There are two parts to the Universities Accord Interim Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's the first part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The second part proposes more than 70 different ideas to reform our higher education system.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Between now and the end of the year when their final report is due, Professor O'Kane and the Accord team are seeking feedback on these ideas, including from members of this place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Here are just some of those ideas:</para></quote>
<list>a Universal Learning Entitlement, that helps as many Australians as possible get the qualifications and skills they need and ensures that all students from poor backgrounds and from the regions and from under-represented groups are eligible for a funded place at university;</list>
<list>a new needs-based funding model for Commonwealth Supported Places—that builds in extra support for students from under-represented groups, to provide an incentive to universities to offer them a place and help them graduate;</list>
<list>a National Skills Passport that includes all of your qualifications, micro credentials, prior learning, workplace experience and general capabilities, and the expansion of quality, stackable micro credentials and short courses to rapidly up-skill and re-skill the workforce;</list>
<list>improving the integration of higher education and vocational education—and that includes creating new types of qualifications that combine both;</list>
<list>more work integrated learning in more courses, including degree apprenticeships, and financial support for students doing compulsory placements;</list>
<list>a jobs broker program to help students find part-time work in the area where they are studying;</list>
<list>a National Student Charter, similar to the one recently introduced in New Zealand, to ensure there is a consistent approach to student safety and wellbeing, and a stronger role for the Ombudsman in addressing student complaints,</list>
<list>a change to the way research is funded to put it on a more predictable footing;</list>
<list>a wider range of institutions, with different missions, including, potentially, a second national university that's focused on regional Australia, based on the University of California model;</list>
<list>a levy on international student fee income to create a fund, a bit like a sovereign wealth fund, that could do multiple things like protect the sector from future economic shocks, and help fund things like infrastructure, research or student housing; and</list>
<list>a new Tertiary Education Commission that would oversee the implementation of these reforms, provide long term advice to government, including where new institutions may be needed, and determine the mission-based funding that each university would get.</list>
<quote><para class="block">They're just some of the ideas in this report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Now is a chance for everyone, here in this place, and right around the country, to read the report and have your say.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Be part of this reform work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pull the ideas in this report apart.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Challenge them and improve on them.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Or reject them and suggest others.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Big reform is hard, and not every good idea can be funded by Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As Professor O'Kane has said, there will be far less than 75 recommendations in the Accord panel's final report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The final report will look at what the top priorities should be and what reforms should be rolled out over time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">So this debate in here and around the country in the months ahead is important.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Professor O'Kane and the whole Accord team are thanked for their work to date.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For their immediate recommendations that we are acting on here.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For the ideas that they are asking us to debate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And for the common thread which runs through all of this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that's about ensuring that more Australians, wherever they live, get a crack at going to university.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That—as the Prime Minister puts it—we open the door of opportunity a bit wider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's what this is all about.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The AC</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 115(3), further consideration of this bill is now adjourned to 13 September 2023.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>95</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Finance and Public Administration References Committee</title>
          <page.no>95</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>95</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>HANSON (—) (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Finance and Public Administration References Committee for inquiry and report by 3 October 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The activities of Aboriginal Community Services (ACS), with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) whether there was fraudulent usage of National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Corporation (NATSIC) vehicles and fraudulent usage of NATSIC fuel cards and credit cards by current and former staff members and directors of ACS;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) whether any former NATSIC members and/or employees were in receipt of payments from ACS as contractors or employees;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) whether any of these former NATSIC members and/or employees were receiving WorkCover or other workers' compensation/insurance payments while being paid/employed by ACS;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) whether third party related member benefits were appropriately approved by membership and reconciled against grant agreements (approved, expended and reconciled in accordance with grant agreement requirements);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) whether employment of family members was appropriately approved by the membership and in accordance with conflict of interest requirements;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) whether taxation was avoided through the use of third party related member benefits, or income in the form of payments, incidental costs, including credit cards, and fringe benefits arrangements for staff and directors, and what property has been purchased as a result (for example, housing, vehicles, jewellery etc, subject to Proceeds of Crime legislation);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) whether unlawfully obtained income or benefits were used in the setup of trust accounts related to ACS or by any staff or directors of ACS;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) whether investigations, whether related to fraud or otherwise, have been undertaken by the relevant Commonwealth and state departments into the operation of ACS and current and former staff and directors of ACS, including their involvement in suspected fraud relating to other organisations and boards such as the Anangu Pitjantjatjara Yankunytjatjara Executive Board and NATSIC;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any third party payments, including any payments made to consultancy firms, including James S Sturgeon Consultancy (ABN 55 592 208 638), Altitude Strategies Pty Ltd, NFP Success and other related entities;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(j) whether there are any financial conflicts in the provision of auditing services to ACS;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(k) whether the ACS board has complied with legislative governance requirements in regard to financial approvals, processes, reporting and transparency, including membership transparency requirements, for example, notifications to members for annual general meetings and whether ACS has met all requirements for legitimate annual general meetings;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(l) whether any current or former ACS staff and directors were unable to obtain appropriate working with vulnerable people and working with children's tickets in any jurisdiction across Australia;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(m) whether any current or former ACS board members have been paid in any form by ACS, including through income or by receiving benefits; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(n) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to speak to this important motion on the activities of the Aboriginal Community Services. It goes to the heart of government accountability—something which the Prime Minister promised would improve under his leadership. As with many of his other promises, this one has not been met. The Albanese government's record on accountability is just about the worst I've ever seen in my 27 years in politics. For some time now, the Prime Minister has been lecturing Australians that special laws and programs and billions of taxpayer dollars haven't closed the gap, and that's his justification for the racist Voice to Parliament. Senator Nampijinpa Price's proposed inquiry into Aboriginal land councils will help explain this failure. I commend the senator for her many years of effort on behalf of Indigenous communities and for her pursuit of accountability for this failure.</para>
<para>Over the years, I've had many Indigenous Australians contact my office or tell me in person about the corruption of this industry. Many Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are sick and tired of the corruption standing in the way of much-needed assistance and support. They're sick and tired of the protection racket shielding corrupt individuals from justice, and it must stop. For some time now, my office has been working with ethical Indigenous community leaders to expose corruption in the use of Indigenous grant funding. The corruption itself is not especially surprising, and I'm confident we've barely scratched the surface of it so far. Of much greater concern is that it has been under investigation by more than one government department for years. Even more appallingly, the subjects of the investigation have been permitted to remain in positions from which they control millions of dollars of taxpayer funding. I refer to Aboriginal Community Services, or the ACS, based in South Australia.</para>
<para>Evidence of the corruption with Indigenous funding continues to emerge as the government campaigns hard to enshrine this corruption in the Constitution. Last month, we learned about the allegations involving the North Australian Aboriginal Justice Agency, which has been funded by the Attorney-General's Department with $83 million. Already the Attorney-General is dodging responsibility for this funding, pretending that he has no control over how it's spent. What a pathetic excuse! I'm telling you now: Australians have had enough of it. They want accountability, and they want to know where their taxpayer dollars are going.</para>
<para>No taxpayer funding should be given to anyone without strict accountability and transparency measures in place. However, that's what appears to happen with the billions of dollars going out in Indigenous grant funding. The Corporations (Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander) Act has nothing like the strict accountability provisions required of non-Indigenous corporations. The Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations, or ORIC, writes to Indigenous grant recipients to politely point out their noncompliance, and the recipients keep getting more grants.</para>
<para>If you want to understand the failure to close the gaps, we need to examine the activities of the many thousands of land councils, Indigenous corporations and charities charged with delivering assistance funded by taxpayers. They are the ones who are responsible for the design and delivery of the programs supposed to address Indigenous disadvantage. We must also examine why successive Australian governments have allowed this failure to go unchecked for so long and why the investigation of which I have been made aware has been so unreasonably delayed. There can only be one reason: the government is trying to hide the truth of this corruption to preserve the dwindling 'yes' vote for the coming referendum.</para>
<para>A voice to parliament will not solve these issues; it will entrench them. A voice to parliament is not a different approach; it's just more of the same failure enshrined in the Constitution so it can continue for all time. More importantly, this is not the government's money or the land councils' money. It's our money—more than $11.5 billion in grants over the past five years alone. Australians have every right to know exactly who is getting it, what it's being used for and why it's not working the way it should. There is immense goodwill amongst Australians to help those in genuine need, but that will evaporate unless they can be confident that their support is really making a difference instead of being squandered.</para>
<para>I have brought this to the attention of the parliament today—my notice of motion has even got the attention of the Department of Social Services and the minister's office, who didn't want me to put this forward, who's actually been contacting the crossbench not to support this, not to support accountability, because this is under investigation. So I said, 'Well, how long has it been under investigation?' It's been under investigation since 2021—two years. And then they also brought in a special audit, which has been in the place for the last six months. 'Oh, we can't do anything.' 'Okay. Have you got a timeline for when you will find out what charges are going to be laid, because corruption has happened there?' 'Oh, we don't know that. We've got to find where the money is coming from, because it's not only the pot of Department of Social Services money. It's coming from state governments as well, so we've got to ensure that this money is from DSS.'</para>
<para>If this happened in the private sector, they would have moved immediately. But it has been two years, a special auditor has been brought in and still there is nothing? That stinks to high heaven to me, because you're not being accountable to the people of this nation. This corruption has been going on for years and years, and I spoke about it many years ago, and nothing has happened. I don't care who's in government here, whether it's the Liberals, Labor, the Nationals or whoever. You all seem to turn a blind eye to it. You sit there and you say: 'We need a voice to parliament because it will actually close the gaps. It will help what's happening.' You don't need that. You need to actually find out where money is going, not have another advisory body—or so you call it. You say it's an advisory body; I say it's setting up a sovereignty structure so that they will actually ask whatever they want and start taxing the Australian people even more so. That's what it's about, and that's quite evident in the papers that were written, even by the people who have written the Uluru Statement from the Heart. These people have said exactly what they want from the Australian people, and it's a deceit that you're putting before the Australian people when you say you reckon it's only about a voice.</para>
<para>You have that voice. You've got 11 people in this chamber, and the biggest risk you have here is Senator Price, who is there fighting more so for the Australian people than I am seeing from any other representative who calls themselves Aboriginal in this place. I have seen more out of her in the short time she's been in this parliament than any other who calls themselves Aboriginal in this place.</para>
<para>The whole fact is that it's about accountability. I have never heard anyone else in this place that claims to be of Aboriginal descent ask for accountability. Where has the money gone?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cox</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. I would like Senator Hanson to reflect on the comments she has made in relation to other senators in this place. If she has a particular view on Senator Nampijinpa-Price, that is her right. But a negative reflection on other senators and their identity in this place is against standing orders, so I would like her to withdraw those comments.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What I might do, Senator Cox, and I did listen intently, is I am going to seek some guidance form the Clerk. I don't want to rush and make a ruling that may be off. Bear with me, please. I have sought guidance and there is a standing order that if senators have taken offence it is in their right to request that statement be withdrawn. By the same token, I could ask Senator Hanson: if you could reflect on your comments. I think we are all grown up enough in this building to come to a conclusion where we can make comments and remarks without too much going to the heart of someone's personality. So I put that to you, Senator Hanson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, please, I am trying to give you the call. Your microphone is not on. Senator Cox.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cox</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This isn't about personalities; this is about the attack on someone's identity. And it is offensive when it comes from a non-Aboriginal person who seeks to attack Aboriginal people's identity in this place. It is actually racism, so let's get that correct.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If I have used the wrong word, I think people around the room know how I operate. But I will come back to Senator Hanson. Senator Hanson, would you reflect on your statement?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am going to clarify this. No names were mentioned. No senator was named. The fact is I referred to senators in this place who have never raised accountability in this place. So if they take offence about their job they haven't done then that's their problem, not mine.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, please resume your seat. Now, I will say this: you didn't have to mention a person's name but it is not hard to work out who our Aboriginal members of the Senate are. I will say this: I would like you to withdraw but I am giving you the opportunity to reflect. I think you can make your point succinctly in many other ways, as you have done for many years in this chamber. Could I ask you to reflect on your comments and, with that reflection, a withdrawal would be greatly appreciated.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw identifying people by their Aboriginality who have not defended and asked for accountability, so I will say that any senator in this place who has not called for accountability, right?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson. You still have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So any senator in this chamber who has not called for accountability, that is the question here. We must call for accountability and that is exactly what this document is doing. We intend to move forward. This whole argument is about people who are marginalised and people who are so-called disadvantaged in this nation. They are also calling out. If we really want to address the real issues concerning these people then we must make sure that the money that is allocated to go there must go there. Am I asking too much that we must have accountability? If you cannot support that, why not? That is what the Australian people want. Taxpayers want accountability. The people you are supposed to be supporting want accountability.</para>
<para>It's not about a lack of money. There has been over a trillion dollars thrown at this. It's about accountability. Am I picking up that, because nothing has happened, there's a protection racket going on here? We've heard it over the years with the legal services, the land councils and so many other government corporations and organisations. It's all shut down; you never want to say or do anything about it. For years I've copped, 'You're racist,' because I dare raise these issues. Criticism is not racism! I'm doing my job. That's what each and every one of you should be doing in this place. Do your job and call for accountability. I don't only do it with the Aboriginal industry; I do it with the NDIS and any other department that I feel is not doing its job. There needs to be accountability for the Australian taxpayers.</para>
<para>It's not only the Aboriginal people that are hurting. We have an issue with the high cost of living in this country. People are homeless. They're living in tents in parks. They can't afford to pay their electricity bills. We need to rein in the spending and demand accountability—where it's going. We need to stop the fraudsters and the corruption. We need to stop patting them on the back and saying: 'It's alright, mate. Because of your background, who you are and what your race is, we're not going to drag you before the courts and make you accountable.' That's not standing up and being leaders of this nation. I call for that right across the board with everyone.</para>
<para>That's what I'm asking the senators of this place. If you are true to your word—you took the oath in this place to represent the people of this nation to the best of your ability—that's what you should be doing. This motion is calling for accountability with taxpayers' dollars. If you sit there and turn your back on it and don't support this motion, you will be to blame and I will tell you to your face: you don't deserve to be in this place. There are people out there who are relying on us to be the leaders of this nation. If we can't call it out then who can? No-one else can. That's our job. I took this job with pride. I'm humble and I'm privileged to have this position in this parliament. That's why I'll stand up and fight for it without fear or favour. I'm sick of hearing the lies told in this place. I'm sick and tired of you backing your own positions without standing up with some determination and belief in this country. All Australians, regardless of their race, should be on an equal basis with the same rights.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to Senator Hanson's motion calling for an inquiry and report into an organisation in South Australia called Aboriginal Community Services. Senator Hanson's call to look into this organisation should be supported. She has raised serious issues around the governance within that organisation. Senator Hanson is right to call for an inquiry into this organisation. Australian taxpayers have a right to know where their money is being spent, and that goes, of course, for every other organisation that receives government funding. It is important not just to the taxpayer but, mostly, to the people that suffer when such organisations are found to be doing the wrong thing. Usually, those people are our most marginalised Indigenous Australians.</para>
<para>During my time representing the Northern Territory in the Senate, I've often spoken on the importance of accountability and transparency of Indigenous organisations and the governments that fund them. If we're ever going to close the gap then let me remind you where the gap exists. Many in this chamber, right across the board, when speaking on Indigenous issues like to suggest that the gap exists between Indigenous Australia and everybody else. Well, there are certainly members of this chamber who are doing pretty well for themselves, who aren't part of that group of Indigenous Australians that are marginalised. The further you move away from a capital city, the more marginalised Australians become—that's everyone. But our most marginalised are those in remote communities whose first language is not English and who still live connected to traditional culture. Everybody else, including the growing Aboriginal middle class, are doing really well. Some have very large property portfolios. Some are earning six-figure salaries. They're alright. The gap exists between them and our most marginalised. But it is our most marginalised who require us, elected parliamentarians, to hold these organisations to account. That is why we're elected to be here. It is our responsibility to do so.</para>
<para>Just days ago, my colleague Senator Kerrynne Liddle and I were refused a very similar request for a much broader inquiry into Aboriginal organisations. We were denied by the Labor government; by the Greens, who purport to be champions for Indigenous Australians; and by Senator Pocock, another who purports to be a champion for Indigenous Australians. Just like the referendum, this issue is in fact not an Indigenous one; it is an Australian one. It affects us all.</para>
<para>May I remind the chamber that Indigenous Australians are Australian citizens also. We forget that. We're treated as an 'other'. There are those that get upset in here about racism—those who like to point the finger at Senator Hanson—and yet they suggest that we should be treated as one separate group to the rest of Australia. That's a pretty bloody racist notion, if I say so myself—that we should be relegated to an entity just for us so that when it's too hardball for the government to deal with an Indigenous issue they'll say: 'Handball it to the Voice. That's too hardball. Just vote down a motion for an inquiry. We don't want to expose the truth. We don't want to hold anyone accountable. We don't want to lift the standard for Indigenous Australians.' It is a matter of equity and it's a matter of justice and responsible use of public resources.</para>
<para>As a nation, we throw billions of dollars every year at Indigenous issues and, of course, at the Aboriginal industry. Rather than looking at these organisations and at how they are spending taxpayer funds or trying to enforce transparency and accountability, we continually turn a blind eye, make excuses, maintain the status quo and the racism of low expectations. That's what we do. That's what happens in this chamber. When are we going to hold the ministers, departments, agencies, and organisations that receive the money to account? Why should Indigenous organisations have a different set of accountability standards? Why should standards for Indigenous Australians be lowered? There's all this talk of closing the gap, and yet we cannot lift the standards. How can organisations receive money year after year yet not supply a mandatory annual report? Could they be getting away with it? Are they getting away with it? Have they been getting away with it? We don't know the answers to these questions, because we keep having inquiries shot down.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hug</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There's no transparency.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no transparency and so the behaviour continues. It makes no sense to me, and I defy anyone in this place to explain it. The truth is it smacks of paternalism. It says, 'We'll just turn a blind eye to these problems because we're afraid to look bad.' There is an absolute bigotry of low expectations, but there is also a tyranny in low expectations. We cannot claim to want to help marginalised Indigenous communities if we will not hold to account the people and organisations engaged to carry out the work. We will not improve the situation if in our response we refuse to acknowledge the problems that exist. We will not help anyone if we do not demand transparency and, of course, accountability.</para>
<para>The excuse that I often hear is that we can't frame Indigenous Australians in this way. I'm talking about organisations. I know that Senator Hanson is speaking about organisations. I know that Aboriginal people come to Senator Hanson. The same people come to me also. They don't have trust in the government or the Greens to listen to them when they are telling us that they are not being heard by the powerful and they are not being heard by those who trample on them and take the resources away from them that they need to improve their lives. That's why they come to Senator Hanson. That's why they come to me. We are their representatives in this parliament. They are evidently ignored repeatedly by this government, by the Greens, by Senator David Pocock, who's only interested in representing the traditional owners of the Australian Capital Territory. No other traditional owners of the country are of any concern to him as a federal representative. But this is the transparency we need for these organisations to do their job better. What is wrong with holding such organisations to account to ensure that they are serving the most marginalised people in this country better? To lift the standards to improve their lives—what is so wrong with asking for this?</para>
<para>We know that there are opportunists that come along in these organisations, we know—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please, let's not play stupid and act like it's just white people who come into these organisations and do this. We know that people of many backgrounds do this, regardless. If you're admitting that white ones come into these organisations well, we should be holding these organisations to account then, if you're actually admitting.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There's an interjection from the Greens.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There's an interjection from the Greens: 'It's white ones'.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">S</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that racist?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that racist to mention colour in this chamber? Is that offensive to anybody? Only when you use the word 'black' apparently. Aside from that, there is an admission there that there are those in organisations who take advantage of them. So, given that we know there is a problem, why do you not want transparency and accountability? Why do you not want these organisations to work effectively for our most marginalised Indigenous Australians? They're the ones that miss out every time. No, let's set up a whole new bureaucracy, with the opportunity for more of the same. Let's ingrain it in our Constitution—shall we?—so that the opportunists can come and take advantage of this new, no doubt well resourced, detailless, risky, divisive, unknown fairytale concept that the Australian people are expected to write 'yes' to so that we can have another organisation that can be ingrained in our Constitution that has every opportunity to fail our most marginalised Indigenous Australians and ignore once more what's going on with the many other organisations, this one in particular, that Senator Hanson has brought before us that we should, as is our responsibility as elected senators, hold an inquiry into. It is our responsibility. I don't care what someone's racial background is, but if an organisation that's designed to support our most marginalised is doing the wrong thing by those most marginalised, then they should be held to account.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's only an inquiry.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator NAMPIJINPA PRICE</name>
    <name.id>263528</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is only an inquiry, as Senator Hanson has suggested. What are we so scared of? I think 'protection racket' is most appropriate in terms of framing what is going on here.</para>
<para>It is why, once again, I support Senator Hanson's calls into this organisation and I encourage everyone in this place to do the same. If we're really, truly serious about helping our most marginalised, we shouldn't sit around waiting for a nonsense, fairytale, detail-less, risky, unknown, permanent change to our Constitution. We get off our backside and do what the taxpayer pays us to do, which is our job, to look into these organisations. Enough is enough.</para>
<para>I support this inquiry wholeheartedly. I will continue to fight for the voices of those who are discarded and who are disrespected. Despite all the platitudes of acknowledgements, all the platitudes of paying respect to Indigenous Australians elders past, present and emerging—all those platitudes that we go on about and we hear like a drone—there is no real action to back up those words. No real action. And that action can start this minute, not tomorrow, not the next day and not 14 October; it can take place now. So let's support this motion.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson for this motion and I rise to offer a short contribution today. I've read the public reports and I recognise that there are very legitimate concerns about how these organisations have operated. This should not be taken lightly. I've been advised that the Department of Social Services is currently carrying out an investigation, the results of which will not be known before the proposed reporting date of this inquiry, which is 3 October this year. I'm very mindful that an inquiry at this time could prejudice any future potential prosecution. If the outcome is to seek justice for what has been alleged, then I believe the best course of action is to allow the investigation to be completed.</para>
<para>I won't be supporting Senator Hanson's motion today but I remain open to working with the Senate on ways the Senate can be assured that, through the investigations conducted, there is a pathway to a resolution in this place to hold them accountable for this.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">S</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>enator COX () (): I think it's a little bit rich that we're continuing to have this conversation—a revolving door of constant singular examples of information that is coming to those who are bringing these motions forward—when there are, in fact, other avenues, as I have talked about at length in this place. One of those avenues is via the Australian National Audit Office. Regarding Senator David Pocock's remarks in relation to the already pending investigation by the Department of Social Services that is happening, it is in the best interest to respect a process that's already being undertaken.</para>
<para>Seeking to undermine that really conveys to me what this is about. The little hood slips off and we get to see what it's really about. This is at-length talking about a Voice to Parliament and having a good old go about how that's not going to solve the problem, but these individual inquiries do. What that does is relay, hopefully, to the rest of those following this debate and the conversations in relation to this motion is the absolute hypocrisy of people who are so out of touch with community that they want to bring on an inquiry to bring those witnesses in front of a public hearing to give evidence, which then compromises those people's safety in those communities. You talk about the almighty power. In fact, in the time I've sat in this chamber, I've heard from a member opposite who spoke about a family or community member being attacked at a community meeting. I think it's pretty rich that people then decide, 'Oh, we'll get them all together and have a public hearing—an inquiry to shame these people with what's happening about the black industry and the black money in this country.'</para>
<para>You can come here and talk about transparency and accountability, but I don't know how many times I've opened my media summary and seen that people have been fact checked about the claims they've made in this long campaign for the Voice to parliament. In fact, I talked about this earlier today in my senator's statement. I used my 10 minutes to talk about the transparency and accountability of having a QR code and telling people it's for a postal vote but in fact it goes to your political party. Or that you can send text messages asking people to donate to your cause while we're sitting in this place. To what? To bring our people down?</para>
<para>It's constant rhetoric, and I would hope that when people talk about standards in this place they can apply those same standards across the board. I don't see that happening. In fact, the thing that I do know is that there are lots of Aboriginal organisations across this country who are not registered with ORIC because it has lots and lots of scrutiny and there are lots and lots of hoops that they have to jump through. They go under acts like the Associations Act in Western Australia, because there's not enough scrutiny under that. So I reject that comment.</para>
<para>I don't come to this place as a senator with lived experience, someone who has history from my old people, to give you all a history lesson at 6:35 at night. But I reject the notion made before that we're all citizens now in this country—that is not how it always was. In fact, I still have the dog tags and the citizenship certificate that my grandparents had to apply for in this country—the tags they had to wear around their necks in this country. They were told they needed to be 'out of town' at a certain hour in this country. They were told they were 'too black' to be able to go into the local pub or the shop. They had to knock on a side window in their hometown in country WA.</para>
<para>Under the 1905 act, so many things were restricted and marginalised—a word that has been thrown around quite a lot in here tonight—in states like Western Australia and Queensland. And we continue to see this pattern of conversation: that blacks can't govern themselves. Well, do you know what? I'm sick and tired of it—I am absolutely done with the conversation that, somehow, people in my communities are seeking safety on that side of the chamber from certain individuals. I think that's pretty out of touch. I admit there are conversations we do have about our organisations that can do better and which should do better. That is at the essence and the heart of nation-building in this country. As an act, native title was created to divide our people, and that's the conversation we should be having—about the regime that was sought, implemented and enacted upon my people around native title. That's not what we asked for and it's not what we wanted in this country.</para>
<para>If we're doing truth-telling in this place, and we want to bring transparency and accountability into the conversation, how about doing some truth-telling? How about talking about where we've come from in 200-plus years and the evolution of all that? But also talk about the wash-up and the legacy of that, because we're still dealing with it today. The Greens will definitely not be supporting this motion. I think it's another patched up, dressed up attempt at an inquiry to bring down First Nations people in this country. It is a detriment that we would even entertain and even have this conversation in this place in a year when we seek to provide self-determination and empowerment to our First Peoples in this country. I definitely won't be supporting that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McCarthy?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCarthy</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Madam Acting Deputy President, I was just about to jump. I gave courtesy to Senator Roberts, believing he was going to speak.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McCarthy, despite your comments there, the standing orders require that I put the question. The question is that the question be now put.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Acting Deputy President, I seek some clarification. As I understand it Senator McCarthy had indicated a desire to speak in the debate. I believe that may have been indicated to Senator Roberts, but Senator Roberts moving that the question be now put prevents Senator McCarthy from speaking. I forget procedurally whether there is any capacity for Senator McCarthy to say anything on this motion that has now been put—that we vote on the motion. It would be polite for Senator McCarthy to have that opportunity, given that she had indicated a desire to do so.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, my understanding is that the standing orders do not allow for consideration of the kind that you've just requested. I think from the response across the chamber that the senator is aware of the standing orders and has acted in accordance with the standing orders seeking to cease this debate. Is that correct, Senator Roberts?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is correct.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay, so I am going to follow the procedure. A point of order, Senator O'Sullivan?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm seeking some clarification. Depending on the result of the division, the debate may in fact still continue.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Exactly, but we have no choice other than to put the question, so let's proceed in that way. The question is that the question be now put.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the motion moved by Senator Hanson be agreed to. A division is required. In accordance with the standing orders, there are no divisions after 6.30 pm, so the vote on the motion moved by Senator Hanson will be held over till tomorrow morning.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise in continuation, but, as I now have more time, I can start at the beginning of my speech instead of trying to race through the key points, as I was yesterday. I rise yet again to implore the government and the Greens to back our calls for an inquiry into new transmission line builds and the process of consultation with landholders, farmers and Indigenous stakeholders in determining the routes and the methods of transmission. Their continual refusal to support this inquiry demonstrates the absolute contempt this government has for regional communities. Just as it has done by changing distribution priority areas, which has seen doctors desert regional communities for periurban centres, just as it is doing by cancelling a whole industry in closing down the live sheep export trade, and just as it is doing by implementing a biosecurity tax on domestic agricultural producers, this government yet again turns its back on the regions.</para>
<para>All we are asking for here is an inquiry, an opportunity for people to have their say and to explain the dearth of consultation, the potential impact on their businesses and the mental stress and anguish they have experienced throughout the process. For example, it would give the people who have written to me just in the last week an opportunity to raise their concerns. One letter is from an agronomist based at Barham who has been informed that they are now under a preferred route for the Transgrid VNI West project—a preferred route that did not exist in the original consultation papers. They explained that many people are confused as to how this project will affect them, as there are mixed messages provided by Transgrid and when they look at other projects and other offerings that have happened around them and just across the border. They go on to outline the flawed mapping that has been used in determining the preferred corridor and the lack of recognition of wildlife protection areas in our region. Another correspondent, from Moulamein, under the same project, said there'd been little consideration of the impact on the economies of farming communities, the devalued property valuations and the flood-prone nature of our area, which is in a recognised flood system.</para>
<para>Even the New South Wales government was willing to have an inquiry. Even though some say it was a lip-service inquiry, they had a brief inquiry into the feasibility of undergrounding transmission lines. Established in June and reporting last week, this inquiry—and it shows the level of interest—garnered over 300 submissions and held five public hearings across the south of the state and in Sydney. But unfortunately, as is so often the case with government led committees, it appears the outcome was a foregone conclusion, as evidenced by Premier Minns declaring publicly on radio, before the inquiry had even concluded, that undergrounding was not feasible and was too expensive.</para>
<para>So I get it. The government doesn't want the inquiry we're calling for. But I am bitterly disappointed by the Greens and the Independents who keep opposing this inquiry. I point them to the dissenting statements contained in the New South Wales report. The Hon. Emma Hurst from the Animal Justice Party—it's not usual for the Nats to even acknowledge the Animal Justice Party—noted in her statement:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we received evidence that clearing of native forests and bushland required for HumeLink—</para></quote>
<para>which is just one project out of the estimated 10,000 kilometres of transmission lines needed in New South Wales—</para>
<quote><para class="block">will have 'serious impacts' on the habitat for 82 threatened species of plants and animals, including the koala, Booroolong frog, wedge-tailed eagle and powerful owl.</para></quote>
<para>Ms Hurst says she supports further inquiry and notes the concerns expressed in the final report by every single non-government representative on the committee. Cate Faehrmann from the Greens said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This Inquiry … was a missed opportunity to provide strong recommendations …</para></quote>
<para>She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It was made abundantly clear to the committee that HumeLink, as currently proposed, has no social licence.</para></quote>
<para>She proposed a finding that the strong community opposition will lead to 'lengthy and costly delays', and she cited concerns about bushfire risk and climate risk, amongst other issues. Ms Faehrmann said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The transition to 100% renewable energy does not have to mean 500kv transmission lines with hundreds of giant steel towers criss-crossing through our national parks, state forests and productive agricultural land, with all of the associated fire risks.</para></quote>
<para>I couldn't say it better myself. I know: a Nat quoting Greens and quoting the Animal Justice Party; who would have thought? It must be very cold in that fiery place down below! But I've always given credit where credit is due, particularly when people accurately reflect the evidence they have heard through a committee process and what they have seen through the site visits of the committee process along with my state colleague Wes Fang MLC, who together with Liberal Taylor Martin provided a dissenting report. That means that every single non-government member of that committee wrote a dissenting report. Of a committee of eight, only four actually agreed with the committee report, but, being a government chaired committee, that is enough to ensure that that report is the one that becomes the committee report even though it is certainly not a reflection of the committee. That's Labor for you.</para>
<para>While the dissenting representatives in New South Wales are now calling for another inquiry, I am just asking this Senate to back an inquiry to listen to the concerns of the communities; investigate the processes for consultation, which have been so poor and lacking to date; look at the compensation that's being offered and the compensation evaluations; and ensure they're using accurate mapping. I was on an update the other day, and I was able to point out that the maps they were using for irrigation districts were only reflective of irrigation farms within an irrigation network and completely ignored the fact that there are river pumpers and groundwater irrigators right across that district. This is what we are calling for: consideration of environmental factors, route options and alternatives. It doesn't even mean underground or overground, but why can't they look at going along state or Crown land corridors, next to roadways or along disused rail corridors?</para>
<para>I'm calling on the Greens to follow the advice of their NSW state colleagues. I'm calling on my friend David Pocock to apply the same principle to transmission lines as he does to gas pipelines. I saw, Senator Pocock, your comments the other week in Narrabri, standing there saying agriculture is too important to see gas pipelines built across the landscape. Well, the same should be said for transmission lines. If you're willing to call out gas pipelines, you should be willing to call out transmission lines or, at the very least, support an investigation and an inquiry. Come on. Get on board, people, and support this inquiry.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There's a pandemic across this country, and this time it's a real one. As we speak, thousands of hectares of land are being cleared for millions of solar panels, wind turbines and transmission lines. Lines are being cut through family backyards, rainforests and prime agricultural land for the tens of thousands of kilometres of powerlines the UN's net zero pipedream demands. The net zero pipedream demands that towering gum trees be ploughed over, grasslands be slashed to nothing, fences be erected and all animals killed inside, and wetlands for migrating birds be decimated, and there's not a peep from the supposed Greenies. In fact, there's encouragement.</para>
<para>Every day, we hear from a new community under threat from a wind, solar or powerline project turning people's lives upside down. On my travel through Queensland, farmers from Smoky Creek approached me. They're nervously awaiting a decision on that solar project from the environment minister, Tanya Plibersek, on 27 September. Unless the environment minister is a hypocrite, the project should be rejected on environmental grounds.</para>
<para>We could make a speech every day for the rest of this parliament about a supposedly green project turning yet another Australian's life and land upside down, inside out and back to front. Ben Fordham reported another story yesterday morning, with farmer Greg Bennett in Callide, Queensland. The first stage of a solar power development is going to cover the entire valley on the way to his property. Imagine driving past that every day. It is 2,700 hectares for just the first stage. That is over 4,000 football fields of scorched solar panels. Greg will have to drive through nine kilometres of sterile, scorching solar panels to get to his property. It's reported that the final project will stretch over 6,500 hectares of land, millions of solar panels filled with toxic heavy metals at risk of feeding into the Calliope River and straight on to the Great Barrier Reef. What do we hear from the supposed protectors of the environment? Crickets.</para>
<para>Two weeks ago I was in Chalumbin, North Queensland, near Ravenshoe, where old wind turbine blades have been dumped and left to rot. They have just been dumped in the bush. They are aluminium that could have been recycled, but it's too expensive to recycle them. They were 20-metre blades. The modern blades going up now are 87 metres plus and made from composite materials that cost far too much to recycle, so they won't be recycled. They'll just be dumped in the bush in wind turbine graveyards.</para>
<para>The UN's net zero is the enemy of the environment. This parliament keeps on refusing to look at the facts—all for nothing. Listen to this from yesterday's the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> newspaper: 'New South Wales is to seek a deal to keep Eraring open.' This was reported yesterday, but the very first thing the New South Wales environment minister said when the New South Wales Labor government got into power in the March, was that they were going to look at extending Eraring. It was the very first thing the New South Wales government did, because they know they're heading into a catastrophe. The <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> said yesterday: 'New South Wales will seek a deal with Origin Energy to prolong the life span of the state's largest coal generator beyond 2025 after the state government said it had accepted the recommendations of an independent report that Eraring coal power station would need to stay open to safeguard electricity supplies'. To safeguard electricity supplies, we need to keep a coal-fired power station running. That's from the Labor Party minister. 'Origin's Eraring station was set to retire in 2025', the article goes on, 'but an independent report said such a closure at that time would expose the state to possible black-outs and further price increases'. Expose the state to back outs and further price increases. See these lights? Coal. NSW Premier Chris Minns said affordability in guaranteeing electricity supply is paramount, and it is. Mr Minns said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">One of the biggest challenges facing NSW is ensuring we can keep the lights on while managing the biggest change in energy mix and consumption in the shortest period of time in our nation's history.</para></quote>
<para>This is insanity. You cannot keep the lights on—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, we're moving on to a lockdown scenario. You will be in continuation. Senators, it being almost 7.00 pm, a scheduled test of the Senate's emergency procedures is going to be undertaken. With the concurrence of the chamber, I ask that the sound and vision broadcasting now cease. The Senate is suspended until the ringing of the bells.</para>
<para>Sitting suspended from 18:59 to 19:35</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you to all senators who participated in the lockdown exercise and made suggestions about improvements to our system. The senator who was speaking at the time will be in continuation the next time that matter comes to the Senate.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>104</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Albanese Government</title>
          <page.no>104</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about the continual reform agenda of the Albanese Labor government, which is making our country fairer and stronger in the energy space and in the healthcare portfolio. Unlike the former government, with its decade of denial and delay that resulted in energy policy chaos, the Albanese Labor government has an ambitious yet achievable plan to deliver cleaner, cheaper energy for all Australians. The Albanese Labor government knows that strong action is needed to tackle the climate crisis. That's why one of our first actions in government was to legislate a target of 43 per cent emission reduction by 2030 and net zero by 2050, and we have a plan to get there.</para>
<para>We expect to generate 82 per cent of Australia's electricity from renewables, the cheapest form of energy, by the end of this decade. A transition to renewable energy now will reduce emissions as well as protecting Australians from future global price shocks in coal and gas markets. This is why we are working with state and territory governments, through the National Energy Transformation Partnership, to deliver progress on the transition to renewable energy. We are investing $20 billion in Rewiring the Nation and $10 billion in the Capacity Investment Scheme. Investments such as these are delivering energy policy certainty and unlocking investment in renewable energy. In fact, this renewable policy certainty is already having an impact, with large-scale wind and solar farm investment commitments up nearly 50 per cent in 2022. Our strong investment in renewables is in addition to our safeguard mechanism reforms, which we passed through parliament earlier this year. These reforms will reduce emissions from our country's biggest emitters by 250 million tonnes. That's equivalent to taking two-thirds of Australian cars off the road. I note that my home state of Tasmania already has 100 per cent renewable power generation, and Marinus will unlock renewable energy generation and storage for the mainland through Tasmania's Battery of the Nation project. Importantly, it will unlock the next wave of renewable energy development in Tasmania, attracting investment and jobs to our state.</para>
<para>Now I want to turn to health policy and what the Albanese Labor government is doing to improve health outcomes for all Australians. Labor created Medicare, the universal access to health care that all Australians can rely on, and in government we always strengthen it, unlike those opposite, who want to run down Medicare. They've done nothing to improve the national health of all Australians. We have not wasted one day since we've come to government. We've not wasted one day in opening Medicare urgent care clinics across Australia, including in my home state of Tasmania, where four Medicare urgent care clinics will operate. In my home city of Launceston, we have already opened a Medicare urgent care clinic at the Launceston Medical Centre, and the clinic has been seeing patients since 31 July this year. This clinic will open for extended hours seven days a week and will offer walk-in care that is fully bulk billed, so the only card you're going to need is a Medicare card. Almost 40 per cent of presentations at the Launceston General Hospital are for non-urgent or semi-urgent care. This clinic will make a big difference to patients in Launceston and the surrounding region, making sure that they have access not only to good care but to care in a very timely manner.</para>
<para>I know that many families in Launceston—and I have experienced this myself with my children and my husband—have waited countless hours in A&E to see a doctor. This service for non-life-threatening issues will actually deliver that care and that service for northern Tasmanians. I'm very proud of that. I'm very proud that, as Labor government, we have delivered this care and that we have also taken pressure off the Launceston General Hospital and its staff, who are doing their best. But what we want to see is people being seen by doctors and nurses as quickly as possible, keeping those non-urgent issues out of accident and emergency.</para>
<para>There is one clear difference between our government and those who were in government for 10 long years: we will keep delivering for the Tasmanian community, whether it's in health, education or jobs. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Murray-Darling Basin Plan</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Sena</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>tor GROGAN () (): I rise to speak about the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. Last month, the Albanese government announced that we would deliver the plan in full. There are many here who may remember that we've been saying since 2012, when the plan was first signed, that it would be delivered in full and on time. Obviously, Labor hasn't had much of that period from 2012 to today in government to be able to influence that—other than for fierce, fierce advocacy, particularly from my own state of South Australia, for that water.</para>
<para>Rather, what we've seen since 2012 was those opposite—the Liberal Party and the National Party, those who make up the coalition government—delivering very, very little. In fact, what they did deliver was two gigalitres out of the 450 gigalitres of environmental water promised: two out of 450. That's atrocious! Yet throughout that whole time, they were busy saying: 'Yes, we're on this. We've got this; we're going to deliver this.' But they did not. Since being returned to government in May last year, the Albanese Labor government has added another 24 gigs onto that. That's in less than one year, when those opposite could only deliver two gigalitres.</para>
<para>I'm being quite laboured in making this point because we're about to go into another legislative debate about the Murray-Darling Basin. That will be about how we make up for the nine years of neglect and gross mismanagement by those opposite in the Murray-Darling Basin. By the end of their term in government, it had just ground to a complete halt—not that there was a lot going on for the duration of their nine years in government. We'll enter into this new debate about amending the plan so that we can actually deliver what was agreed to be delivered. That debate is coming to this chamber and I'm deeply concerned about some of the early conversations, some of the early soap boxing, that has occurred.</para>
<para>South Australia, obviously, is at the bottom of the river, and we have advocated so strongly from South Australia for so many years about this. All I can do is urge people in this place to get on board; to remember why we put the basin plan in place in the first place and to think about the health of the river. That's because the health of the river is critical to the health of our agricultural sector. It's critical that the river system stay healthy; it's critical that we have enough water in the system all the way up and down the system to make sure that we can grow the food that we need, that our agricultural sector is supported and that our environment is supported. So often in this place, those two things are decoupled.</para>
<para>Those opposite talk about how protecting the health of the river will kill agriculture. It won't. Protecting the health of the river is what will ensure that agriculture can flourish for years and years into the future. The more we trash that system, the less sustainable our agricultural sector will be. Protecting that river is what Labor has stood for since 2012, and for years before that, along with protecting the Basin Plan and desperately looking to deliver that plan in full using the scientific evidence, not soapboxing, campaigning bunkum. We need to ensure that this plan is delivered. The on-time bit was squandered by those opposite, but Labor can and will still deliver the in-full bit.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regional Security</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister is in Indonesia this week for the ASEAN-Indo-Pacific Forum. We are told he will be launching his South-East Asia strategy, designed to turbocharge our economic ties with South-East Asia and reduce our reliance on China. I wish him well. We need strong ties with our neighbours. It's good for us and for them. I also hope that he can encourage our Indo-Pacific neighbours to stand strong against increasing aggression from China.</para>
<para>I told the last government, over and over again, not to put all their eggs in the China basket. The Turnbull-Morrison government seriously took their eyes off the ball, and the Chinese started kicking goals. A friend of mine recently came back from the Solomon Islands. He informed me that wherever there is a building there is a big sign that says 'made by China'. Australians found out a month ago that hundreds of Chinese satellites were collecting intelligence on our latest war game exercise with the US. Since those war games started, hundreds of orbit satellites have been tracked at low altitudes, focusing on the activities of warships in our Sydney Harbour. China has hundreds of these military satellites. Guess how many we have, Australians? None. That's right: a big fat zero. None. That's where we're at. We won't get our nuclear subs for at least 20 years—that's on a good day. The retention and recruitment rates in our armed forces are the worst they have even been. If, God forbid, another war comes, we are woefully unprepared.</para>
<para>The world is in a frightening place. There is a land war in Ukraine. Our region, the Indo-Pacific, is especially dynamic. China is moving into areas it has never had control over. It is building islands in the South China Sea and being increasingly aggressive with Taiwan. It is claiming borders that never existed. China is basing these actions on so-called very old maps—maps that the international court has said never existed. On Monday 1 September, China released a new official map that lays claim to most of the South China Sea, as well as contested parts of India and Russia. China's longstanding claims in the South China Sea have developed into tense standoffs with Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei and the Philippines.</para>
<para>China and India fought a war over their border in 1962. The disputed boundary led to a three-year standoff between thousands of Indian and Chinese soldiers. A clash three years ago in the region killed 20 Indian soldiers and four Chinese. Since 1948, China has shifted from an agriculture based economy to a high-tech and highly industrialised economy. In the last 20-odd years China has pulled hundreds of millions of people out of poverty and into the relative wealth of the middle class. It has done this in a world of rules-based order and peace, which Australia has defended for over 100 years. In a relatively peaceful world, China has done very, very well, and now China is challenging that order. That's right, Australians, they're challenging that world order.</para>
<para>The US has re-engaged with the Pacific, reopening embassies and finally putting their money where their mouth is. Japan is increasing its military spending, India is increasing its military spending and other smaller regional players are doing the same. The drums of war may not be beating, but I can assure you there is an increasing and real sense of when, rather than if, the drums will start.</para>
<para>Since World War II, Australia has relied heavily on our relationships with powerful friends. When Japan bombed Darwin in 1942, our Prime Minister, John Curtin, called Churchill asking that troopships headed for Europe be turned around and sent back to Australia. Churchill said 'no', but the Americans said 'yes'. These friendships have made us prosper and have kept us safe, and we've relied heavily on them. But these relationships have also made us extremely lazy with our national security. Rather than build our own military to a point where it can sustain itself, we have relied too heavily on the US and others.</para>
<para>Australia has the greatest soldiers, sailors, airmen and airwomen. They are probably some of the best in the world. They are dedicated, fit, strong Australians willing to fight for us all the way. But how can we rely on our friends to give us much-needed support, equipment and supplies if the sea lanes are cut? How can we rely on that?</para>
<para>Australia hasn't fought a big war since World War II. At that time we faced an adversary. Since then we have been underprepared, and we need to do something.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight I would like to talk about the ongoing persecution of members of the Baha'i faith in Iran. I recently caught up with some members of the Baha'i faith from Rockhampton, and I want to thank Camelia and Mehraban for sharing some time with me. They shared the harrowing details of the ongoing persecution of members of their faith in Iran.</para>
<para>The Baha'i faith is one of the world's newest religions. Established only in the 19th century, there are more than five million followers of the Baha'i faith around the world. Here in Australia, there have been Baha'i members of the community since 1920 and there are now over 350 different worshipping localities around Australia for the Baha'i faith. We've very lucky in this country to enjoy freedom of religion and, indeed, the freedom not to practise a religion at all.</para>
<para>In Iran, members of the Baha'i faith and many other faiths face a very different reality. There are estimated to be around 300,000 Baha'i living in Iran today. Baha'i is the largest non-Muslim religious minority in Iran but remains unrecognised by the Islamic republic. Instead, Iran's current clerical rulers label the Baha'i faith a heresy, by reason of it being a post-Islamic religion. Iranian law and official state policy deny Baha'is many fundamental human rights including civil, political, economic and cultural rights to education, work, freedom of religion and freedom from arbitrary detention. Baha'is are not allowed to practice their faith or enjoy the rights they should be entitled to as normal Iranian citizens. In fact, discrimination against Baha'is is a matter of official state policy, which states that Iran's Baha'is are to be treated in such a way 'that their progress and development shall be blocked'. The Baha'is have a long history of persecution in Iran, especially since the Iranian Revolution in 1979. The Baha'i community in Iran is subject to state sponsored persecution, affecting every one of its members across generations and over every phase of life until their ultimate death.</para>
<para>Iran's persecution of minority groups came to the world's attention in September last year, when a young Kurdish Iranian woman, Mahsa Jina Amini, was detained in Tehran for failing to adhere to the strict dress code for women that is enforced by the Islamic republic. Unfortunately, this arrest was not the first instance where morality police used excessive force against a woman for not complying with the nation's mandatory headscarf, or hijab, law. Sadly, within days of Mahsa Amini's arrest she was admitted to hospital, still in the custody of authorities, and later died.</para>
<para>Mahsa Jina Amina's untimely death in custody lit a fuse in Iran. What started as widespread condemnation of her murder triggered an eruption of widespread, pre-existing anger and unrest in the country, calling out the nationwide struggle for gender equality, freedom, human rights and secularism. The institutionalised oppression unified ethnic minorities such as the Kurds and Baluchi peoples, as well as the other religious minorities in Iran such as the Baha'i.</para>
<para>History shows that attacks on the Baha'i faith increase at times of national upheaval or crisis in Iran, when the authorities are seeking a convenient scapegoat to deflect from public discontent. In the current climate, the Baha'is remain easy targets and scapegoats, and there have been many examples recently of Baha'is being falsely accused in the Iranian media of instigating mass disturbances and committing acts of violence. Since the nationwide protests in Iran last year, there has been an escalation of violent attacks and human rights violations on Baha'is, including interrogations, beating and detentions without due process.</para>
<para>I would like to acknowledge the hard work of Senator Claire Chandler, who is in the chamber tonight, thankfully, and other members of the Senate Standing Committees on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade for the work they have done on the inquiry. <inline font-style="italic">Human rights implications of recent violence in Iran</inline>, the report from the committee, was tabled earlier this year and documents in greater detail the issues that I've highlighted tonight. In testimony to that committee, the report says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Professor Saul recommended that the government's primary response to the violence and killing of women, girls and protestors in Iran should be to widen the regulations to capture other serious human rights violations …</para></quote>
<para>As the committee concluded:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Australia has not only a moral obligation to take a stand against such behaviour, but a practical requirement to protect Australians from the dangerous and threatening behaviour of the IRI.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The recommendations in this report are designed to ensure Australia acts in accordance with our principles and with respect for human rights. It is entirely appropriate that the IRI regime, which has chosen to trample human rights and international norms in so many ways over such a long period of time, bears the consequences of its own actions in the form of being isolated from the international community. It is in Australia's interests to be at the forefront of international efforts to make clear to the IRI, and to other rogue nations, that there will always be consequences for engaging in unlawful activities—</para></quote>
<para>and the repression of human rights.</para>
<para>Once again, I would like to thank Camelia and Mehraban for spending time with me, and I commend the committee's report.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 19:56</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>