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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2023-06-22</date>
    <parliament.no>2</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Thursday, 22 June 2023</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Sue Lines</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 09:00, made an acknowledgement of country and read prayers.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="s1381" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was making a point to people in the gallery yesterday when I began my speech on the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023, but they've left! It was that this is a proposed incremental change which, I believe, will improve the regulatory environment with respect to advertising and gambling. We can have a debate in terms of who did what and when, and what people should do in the future et cetera—maybe the coalition should have done that and maybe Labor should do this. But the point is that this is a positive, incremental change moving in the right direction, and it could be done now. It's a very simple bill; it could be passed now and introduced now. I'm hopeful that the comments I make during this speech may well convince my good friend Senator Bilyk, who is speaking after me, that there's merit in the argument that there should be some incremental change and that change could occur now.</para>
<para>We do accept that people like to gamble. People like to bet, that is the fact of the matter. We also accept that there needs to be regulation of those activities. I think that many of us across the chamber are concerned. Hopefully, this is something I say that Senator Bilyk would agree with: it causes me unease when I drive past hotels and pubs during the week and see pokies are open until 4 am. We have to ask ourselves how that can be in the best interest of anyone—gambling at four in the morning? And we can gamble on the internet now, 24/27.</para>
<para>The particular concern that this bill seeks to address is the conflation of gambling with major sporting events. When I was growing up I watched State of Origin as a young boy with my family—and yesterday was State of Origin day, with another absolutely fantastic win by the maroons! I stayed up way past my bedtime at 8.30, because that's how late the game went, but there were none of these gambling advertisements and there wasn't this conflation of a major sporting event with gambling—or 'gaming', which is the synonym now used. So there was a demarcation between gambling and major sporting events such as State of Origin, the Ashes and so many other major sporting events. Horseracing was always in a different category.</para>
<para>But, in terms of the football, cricket, tennis and Aussie Rules, there was a demarcation between the sporting event and gambling, and that demarcation has broken down. The concern is that the 10-year-olds who were watching State of Origin last night will see gambling as being part of enjoying a sporting event. Not only do you watch the sporting event but you can have a punt at the same time. And you can bet on so many different things—first try scorer, highest point scorer, the ultimate victor and the margin et cetera. You can see how people who have a proclivity towards being susceptible to the addictive nature of gambling can fall into that trap, especially as young people. That's the primary concern that we have. I'm sure that that primary concern is shared by everyone across the chamber.</para>
<para>This is an incremental change which, from our perspective, could improve things. The specific proposal is that gambling advertising be banned from one hour before the start of a live sporting event until one hour after. So that's a reasonably modest proposal. That means footy is family time—family time is footy. So we all gather around the TV and watch the match, and there are no gambling advertisements in the course of that match. The ban would apply to TV and radio broadcasts. Existing exemptions for gambling advertising during horse, harness and greyhound racing would be retained. Exemptions for advertisements for lotto, Keno and similar government run lotteries are also retained, where the evidence is that they are less likely to contribute to that gambling addiction.</para>
<para>The ban would be achieved through minor amendments to the Broadcasting Services Act 1992. The changes to the act would require industry codes of practice to be updated to incorporate the ban, and the bill allows for a transition period for the change. So these are small, incremental improvements, and I genuinely ask those opposite: why would you stand in the way of these incremental improvements? No doubt, when the government finishes its review or the parliamentary reviews are completed, there could be larger reform moving through the system, but I can't see any reason why such a positive, incremental improvement—taking it at face value and accepting that it's proposed in good faith—wouldn't be accepted. What's the harm of accepting it in good faith and sending a message that everyone across this chamber cares about this issue?</para>
<para>I say to those opposite: I understand the arguments which are being put, but I think we can rise above those arguments and simply focus on the issue before us. This is a very positive, incremental change, and I think those on the other side of the chamber should in good faith accept it at face value, and, if there are proposed amendments, put the proposed amendments forward. But I can't see why such a positive, incremental change such as this would not be accepted. On that basis, I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023. As Senator Scarr said, this bill places a ban on gambling advertisements during television and radio broadcasting and live streaming of sporting events, and, as Senator Scarr also said, the ban would commence one hour before the scheduled start of the match and end one hour after its conclusion. But the government will not be supporting this bill.</para>
<para>Our position on this bill should not be misconstrued as a lack of will to seriously address the harms of online gambling. In fact, between us and the opposition, we are the only party that is serious about addressing these harms, and the bill we are debating today is further evidence of this. It's nothing more than a thought bubble, and, if I were Senator Henderson, I might be a bit embarrassed to table it. Of course, if the opposition were truly serious about reducing gambling harm, they wouldn't have had this sudden interest. Let's not forget that those opposite, who were in government for almost a decade, were the architects of the current arrangements. But now, all of a sudden, the Leader of the Opposition and the coalition he leads have taken an interest in the harms presented by gambling advertising and are seeking to change these arrangements. So forgive me for being cynical if I don't take this sudden interest seriously, after years of inaction by those opposite.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scarr</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Rise above it!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, could you please call that side to order?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They are being a little bit rowdy. Please restrain yourselves.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Deputy President. I sat very quietly through all of Senator Scarr's speech.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please proceed.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The only reason we have any restrictions on gambling ads during live sport is that Labor acted when we were last in government, and we called for further restrictions while we were in opposition. If the opposition believe that this is such a great policy, it begs the question: where were they on this during their almost 10 years in government? To me, this seems less like a serious policy proposal and more like a bit of a headline-grabbing move from an opposition that is directionless and struggling for relevance. If those opposite are going to get serious about gambling advertising and the harm it's causing, then it's high time they reflected on their own record in government.</para>
<para>The current gambling advertising rules and the commercial broadcasting tax were both part of a broader deal struck with media companies, and it had very little to do with harm minimisation. In fact, figures from the Australian Communications and Media Authority showed there was a 50 per cent increase in the total volume of gambling spots on television and radio following the introduction of the last set of gambling ad restrictions in 2018. After seeing these figures, what did those opposite do to rectify this situation? Not a thing—absolutely nothing. Four years after the National Consumer Protection Framework was established, the pace they have acted at could best be described as glacial. Only six of the 10 measures had actually been implemented, and they took far too long to implement the framework, but we've moved quickly where they failed to do so. They have also failed to respond to the 2020 Stevens review, which recommended addressing the regulation of gambling in computer games, and the 2019 parliamentary joint committee inquiry which recommended banning credit cards for online gambling. We've acted on both measures, where those opposite failed.</para>
<para>We've acted quickly on a range of initiatives in our first year of government to address gambling harm, and we have committed to strengthening the classification of gambling-like features in video games, to protect children from exposure to harms. There are a variety of different kinds of gambling-like features in video games. Some are simulated casino-style games, such as poker machines, but these features also include intermittent and chance based rewards that players spend real money on, such as loot boxes, which are not explicitly presented as gambling but still bear the essential features of gambling activities. We have also committed to legislate to ban credit cards for online gambling. The ban on credit cards brings online gambling into line with land based gambling, where credit cards cannot be used, and, importantly, it ensures that people cannot bet with money they do not have.</para>
<para>For the first time since 2017, we've brought together state and territory ministers to discuss actions we can take together to address gambling harms. We're also acting on the final elements of the National Consumer Protection Framework, having delivered, in March this year, on consistent gambling messaging and wagering staff training. To deliver the final element of the framework, we will launch BetStop, the National Self-Exclusion Register. When implemented, BetStop will allow consumers to exclude themselves from all Australian licensed wagering services. In addition to all these actions, we've established a House of Representatives inquiry into online gambling and its impacts on those experiencing gambling harms, which is being very ably chaired by the member for Dunkley, Peta Murphy. Our decision to establish this inquiry demonstrates the strength and seriousness of our commitment to addressing gambling harm.</para>
<para>While we oppose this bill—and I'll get to the reasons why soon—we share the strong concerns Australians have about the extent of gambling advertising and its impact. This is why we've already taken the actions I outlined earlier and established the House of Representatives inquiry. It's also why we are committed to strengthening the legislative framework and consumer protections that govern online gambling and the promotion of online gambling. As we saw in a recent ABC <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program, and as we have seen from submissions to the House of Representatives inquiry, online gambling has become far too pervasive. The <inline font-style="italic">Fo</inline><inline font-style="italic">ur Corners</inline> program, entitled 'Game, bet, match: gambling with Australian sport', revealed that peak national sport bodies were receiving a cut of gambling revenues. It also revealed that live betting odds were being offered for amateur community sports, and that this was leading to an increase in match fixing. While Australia accounts for around 0.3 per cent of the world's population, we account for an incredible five per cent of the global online gambling market. Australians have the largest per capita gambling losses in the world, and around double the losses of other Western countries. Gambling is growing at an alarming rate. Gambling revenue in Australia was $5.4 billion in 2019, $6.9 billion in 2020 and $7.9 billion in 2022.</para>
<para>To illustrate the harm this is causing, Financial Counselling Australia indicated in their submission to the inquiry I mentioned that 80 per cent of specialist gambling financial counsellors reported that they had clients presenting who were talking about suicide and that 48 per cent had clients who had attempted to take their own lives. According to 2020 figures from the Australian Institute of Family Studies, online betting accounted for 78 per cent of betting, up from 62 per cent prior to the start of the COVID pandemic.</para>
<para>The dangers and harms associated with online gambling are potentially greater than those related to other forms of gambling. This was noted in the Salvation Army's submission to the inquiry, which pointed out that research has consistently identified high rates of gambling harm and at-risk gambling among online gamblers compared with on-site gamblers. Ease of access, relative anonymity, the frictionless nature of financial transfers—that is, e-cash—text based promotional messaging and the use of player analytical data are all features of online gambling products that make it harder for regulations to keep pace with the speed at which gambling products are introduced into the online community.</para>
<para>As a longstanding advocate for the protection of children and co-chair of the Australian Parliamentarians for the Prevention of Child Abuse and Neglect group, the exposure of children to gambling advertising is of particular concern to me. A submission to the inquiry by the Alliance for Gambling Reform refers to studies about children's exposure to gambling ads. One study found that 91 per cent of children between the ages of eight and 16 could recall seeing a promotion for sports gambling. Concerningly, around 40 per cent of young people over the age of 16 had engaged in formal or informal gambling. If there is at least one thing we should all be agreed on in this place, surely it's the need to minimise to the extent possible the exposure of children to gambling advertising and the harms it causes to children?</para>
<para>And when it comes to the harms experienced by children, it isn't just children taking up gambling themselves but also the secondary harms to children caused by gambling addiction in adults. A study released just last month found that parental gambling was related to significant levels of harm in children, including financial harm, abuse and neglect, as well as relational and psychological problems. It also found there was a pattern of intergenerational transmission of problem gambling in children of regular or heavy gamblers.</para>
<para>In response to these issues, what we do not intend to do, like those opposite, is to rush in half cocked. We will be taking a comprehensive and considered approach to our policy, informed by the inquiry and not scribbling our policy on the back of a napkin, as the opposition seems to have done. The Minister for Communications, Michelle Rowland, who will have carriage of the government's bill, has been working assiduously with her department to prepare for and respond to the inquiry report. Any legislation to address this issue needs to consider the multiple channels over which advertising is delivered. These include television, radio, live streaming, social media and outdoor advertising and branding.</para>
<para>Legislation also needs to be evidence based, which this bill is not. The Independent member for Goldstein, Zoe Daniel, has co-authored a private members bill on this issue, together with the members for Mayo and Clarke. In her second reading speech on the co-authored bill, she had this to say about the opposition's move on this issue:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Aware of the latest crossbench push on this, the opposition has recently suggested banning gambling ads during sporting events and one hour either side. The evidence shows that this will not fix the problem. In fact, recent policy interventions to restrict the timing and proximity of gambling ads around broadcast sport has only pushed gambling into other programming—including programming that appeals to children like comedy shows and Marvel movies.</para></quote>
<para>This is why I stress that anything we do needs to be considered, comprehensive and evidence-based and needs to avoid any unintended consequences.</para>
<para>I do accept the urgency of tackling gambling harm. I absolutely do. We on this side all do. But it is also important that with anything we do in the area we take advice from experts and get it right. That's the approach we have taken with our actions so far, whether it be the ban on credit cards for online gambling, the strengthened classification of computer games with gambling-like features or the implementation of the national consumer protection framework. We on this side have ensured that any action we have taken to address gambling harm has been based on expertise and evidence.</para>
<para>There is currently an inquiry, as I said, before the House of Representatives. This will report soon. This inquiry has already held 13 public hearings and received over 161 submissions. It will gather all the evidence from experts and stakeholders, consider it carefully and deliver well reasoned recommendations. This stands in stark contrast to the half-baked proposal that Senator Henderson has tabled in this chamber. Senator Henderson's suggestion in her second reading speech on this bill that the government has been wrongfooted by this proposal gives herself and her party far too much credit. I'm not sure what's more embarrassing: the bill itself or the fact that Senator Henderson regards it as some political masterstroke. In any case, we can see from the opposition's actions that they were never serious about addressing gambling harm during almost a decade in government.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They did nothing for almost a decade and they're not really serious now. I urge the Senate to reject this bill because those of us who are genuine about protecting Australians from gambling harm will have the opportunity to support a serious, evidence based and comprehensive government bill.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Perhaps if you hadn't been so busy chitchatting through my speech you would have heard what I said about children. If you are so interested in your bill, it might pay you to listen and learn what the concerns are.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, please refrain from those types of comments.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Deputy President, I rise on a point of order. To reflect on a senator—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have dealt with the point of order, Senator Henderson.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, I have dealt with the point of order. It's not a debate. We have a long day ahead. Let's just calm the farm. Make me happy.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this private senator's bill, the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023, as the Australian Greens spokesperson for sport. Sport is the fabric of our nation. It's the adrenaline from watching live sport in particular that Australians across this country love. There are 30-plus different types of live sport that you can watch at the tap of your phone. You can get live scores. You can watch the action. It's available to you all at the press of a button.</para>
<para>Gambling has become such an integral part of sport now. In fact, you can't even watch a game, participate in tipping competitions or even speak to people about a match or a race without them talking about the odds or 'multi' and the language that the industry uses now coming up in the conversation. It's horrendous because they have their own type of language that they use. Every ad break there is a gambling ad, unfortunately, in sport. Sports teams at every level are sponsored by gambling companies. At sporting venues, logos for gambling companies are plastered absolutely everywhere. They have just taken over the atmosphere. It was once quite pleasant to go and watch a live match. It's becoming more and more difficult to watch sport without being immersed in those ads, which come thick and fast at you. I agree that this bill goes some way to addressing that, but in fact it doesn't go far enough.</para>
<para>The Greens want an outright ban of gambling ads—at all times and on all platforms. This bill tinkers around the edges and it fails to take the action that's actually needed. The Greens support what the coalition are trying to do, the concept behind this bill and gambling reform, but we know that more reform is needed. It needs to be much broader than what's contained in this bill. Concerns have been raised—across the chamber by both sides and by Senator Hanson-Young, who has previously spoken—that simply banning gambling ads on broadcasts will push those ads onto radio, apps, websites and other avenues. In fact, we saw this the last time gambling ad reform happened, and this has already been highlighted.</para>
<para>People who mostly profit from this gambling advertising say that restricting the involvement of gambling companies will kill local sport, as gambling companies have so many partnerships with local sporting clubs and that gambling advertising revenue helps broadcasters air their local sports. It's ridiculous to say that, if we cut out gambling ads, the broadcasters can't do their job and broadcast local sports. I don't know how they're making that connection. The same was said when similar bans were put in train for tobacco. I'm happy to say that I'm a little bit young to have seen the whole spectrum of that, but it seemed ridiculous at the time that people were saying that tobacco companies aren't even allowed to sponsor or be involved in sport in the first place, and then we saw an amazing amount of reform happen.</para>
<para>The horrible and horrific thing that is ever present in the minds of parents—and this has been researched—is that children can now identify some of these betting companies based on their colours and their logos. The marketing strategy of these gambling companies is amazing. We didn't think it was acceptable when tobacco companies were doing this, so why do we think it's okay for gambling companies to do this?</para>
<para>I will give an example. A couple of years ago, in 2022, the live Brownlow Medal count was in Perth. I was in the room that night, but a whole lot of ads from Sportsbet were thrown up and there were odds for who was going to win the Brownlow that night. People were horrified and they reported it to the media. This is the one night in the AFL when all eyes are on the TV. People were watching the live medal count. In particular children were watching live their AFL star in the medal count. They were admiring them and hoping that they would win the Brownlow, which is such a prestigious award. What they saw, in fact, was Sportsbet ads being churned out at every opportunity and they were bombarded with the harmful messaging that they brought around gambling.</para>
<para>Senator Bilyk just mentioned that there's an inquiry report on this issue coming soon and that the government have flagged wider reform as a result of that report. I also want to be clear that this is in fact a huge opportunity. The community want to see us create change in this place and they want change. A recent survey of 3,000 AFL fans found that gambling ads was the most common concern. That was the most common thread across the survey results.</para>
<para>A majority of them supported an outright ban, and this again supports what the Australian Greens are calling for. We are calling for a complete ban, so I hope, when this report from the inquiry comes back—and the government have signalled that there will be wider reform—they start listening to the fans of the sports as well, and don't just think they know what they are all thinking. Governments at the state and territory level also want change. We know that the ACT Attorney-General has stated he would support a near complete ban on gambling ads. The South Australian government also called for a ban, while the New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmanian governments believe the current rules are in fact too weak. They have signalled that there needs to be change and there needs to be reform not just to their communities but also to us here in the federal parliament.</para>
<para>Several of my colleagues, in particular Senator Rice, who chairs the community services committee, have talked at length about the harm gambling causes—the real harm—and how addictive it is. This is a vicious industry that preys off the vulnerability of people in our communities. People have gone into debt, used their super and drained their savings because of gambling. Gambling has ruined relationships and some people have lost their homes because of their addiction to gambling. We also have the self-exclusion registers that operate across the country, and people place themselves on those as a measure of trying to end their addiction. But they have reported being targeted with matched bet offers to try and get them back into gambling, which is just horrendous. In fact, it is shameful that this is happening to Australians, where they are targeted after doing all of the work and putting themselves onto a self-exclusion register.</para>
<para>These gambling companies, sporting codes and broadcasters are all concerned about maintaining their profits, which is no surprise, right? They are facilitating and operating within this framework, and they actually believe the current rules are fine. It's like a 'nothing to see here, move on' type of process. We see a similar type of modus operandi from fossil fuel companies, for which I have the pleasure of being the spokesperson for the Australian Greens. It has been revealed that Australian soccer's governing body is taking cuts from bets being placed at competitions at all levels in the country, from international to local and suburban. We know there are similar deals between gambling companies and the NRL, the AFL and Cricket Australia, and some of these bodies are earning commissions of up to 17.5 per cent, totalling millions of dollars of revenue for these bodies. This means that of course they don't want reform. They don't want anything to change because they are profiting from it. It just shows how out of touch some people who directly benefit from gambling are.</para>
<para>The Racing NSW chief executive and ARL Commission chair has said that gambling is about entertainment, right? He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Just like you go to a restaurant and you buy a meal—that's entertainment. As long as you're responsible with what you're spending with that entertainment, it's no different to anything else.</para></quote>
<para>I mean, seriously, how out of touch is this guy? Frankly, that statement is very offensive, and it fails to acknowledge the real harm that gambling poses to people. You don't hear about people who are addicted to gambling going to restaurants at all. They don't have any money to do that. It is an entirely different thing to compare going to a restaurant, having a meal and being responsible with someone who has an addiction to gambling. It is a real thing. The gambling industry has intentionally embedded itself deeply into sport, and it has made it difficult for people to escape and break the cycle of addiction. As I said, for someone to suggest that it's like buying a meal is disgraceful. It's absolutely disgraceful, and it's downright cruel, as far as I'm concerned, that you would prey on the vulnerability of people who have an addiction to gambling. Professor Samantha Thomas, who's a gambling and public health expert said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Sporting organisations have such an important role to play in promoting the health and social wellbeing of our community, but they continue to have a complete blind spot when it comes to gambling, which is linked to some of our most pressing health and social problems.</para></quote>
<para>I think of First Nations communities in my home state of Western Australia, and in the Northern Territory, Queensland and other places. We talk a lot about closing the gap in this place and we talk a lot about what that means in our communities. But when we think about the intergenerational trauma and vulnerability in those communities, I can tell you now that people also have those Sportsbet live-gambling apps on their phones. So it's time for this blind spot to actually be addressed and it's time for sporting codes, broadcasters and gambling companies to stop making such huge profits off the vulnerabilities of people who are just trying to enjoy sport. They're just trying to participate in it—they're trying to watch it. They're trying to engage in a social way and we're allowing that harm to creep in there.</para>
<para>It's time for a complete ban, in fact, on all gambling advertising. I did say that although I agree with the premise of what's in this bill, I don't think it goes far enough. We absolutely cannot afford to continue to tinker around the edges with this. We are in this place as elected members to look at these issues, to create change and to create reform. We have an opportunity to do that. We, as federal leaders, need to take that responsibility. We've already heard that the states and territories are on board. They actually want more reform; they're seeing the harm, and they're responsible for some of that harm, in their own states. But we need to do the work at this level first.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I totally support this Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023 today. Gambling is a scourge on this country. It always has been and it always will be. I don't necessarily disagree with Senator Cox that it doesn't go far enough, but it is a start and for that reason we should at least support it. I have to say that I was completely shocked at Senator Bilyk's comments, where she wanted to take longer to look at this bill because there might be unintended consequences from passing this bill. I'm not quite sure what the unintended consequences would be.</para>
<para>We have a very good case study in this country called Western Australia. They don't have poker machines. I know we're not talking about poker machines in this specific bill, but they don't have gambling at all and they seem to survive without the poker machines. Do you have online gambling?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cox</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They do.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I guess you do—online advertising. Still, the point is that we don't need gambling at all. Let's face it, to me this is about the whole point of gambling. I've just hated the creep of online gambling. It's not just the fact that it influences our children from a very young age—it brings gambling into their lives when they should just be watching sport and being motivated to go outside with a cricket bat and a ball, or with a footy and kick the footy around. Obviously, that influence is extremely bad, but there are also tax consequences to this.</para>
<para>Probably one of the easiest examples I can talk about is in regard to withholding tax. A lot of the online gambling companies aren't even based in Australia. When you park your $1,000 deposit into the account for future gambling, that money could go into an offshore account and it becomes very difficult to actually trace how much income is derived here in Australia. So it becomes another form of tax evasion that should be dealt with.</para>
<para>I'm not sure really how I'm going to fill up the full time to talk about this, because it's such a no-brainer. I can't see why we just can't support it. If Labor and the Greens want to add more to it later on then so be it—do it. But don't stop this from going ahead just because you don't think it goes far enough; it is a step in the right direction and every step counts. I'll leave it at that, other than to say that I'd probably support some of these motions that the Greens and Labor think should happen.</para>
<para>I do take umbrage at the idea that the states and territories are on board when it comes to cracking down on gambling, because they have been ripping off low-income and vulnerable people for years. I've seen that in my own state of Queensland. I grew up in Queensland quite happily and innocently in the seventies and eighties when we didn't have poker machines at all. We had our first casino, Jupiters Casino, in 1982. But most of Australia, or at least Queensland, survived for the best part of 150 years without having poker machines or any sort of formal online gambling. It pretty much stayed on the track. By all means, if you want to have a bit of punt, go down to the track on a Saturday afternoon, pull out your form guide and have a couple of brewskis, but not this idea of sitting in a pub 24 hours a day with access to a gambling machine. And it's only worse with online gambling. You don't even need to go to the pub to access that; you can access that on your iPhone at home.</para>
<para>It's interesting to talk about online entertainment. I think these iPhones are a bit of a scourge. There was a time, for example, 50 years ago, you might have had a radio and one TV channel that might have started at three o'clock in the afternoon. So you'd get pretty bored pretty quickly if you hung around the home. Today it's all too easy to get tied up with social media, online gambling, Netflix and whatever else. It's not doing society a lot of favours by allowing people to stay in their little ruts, in their little online worlds, and not get out to talk to people face to face.</para>
<para>I totally support this bill; I think it's a great bill. There should be more of it. I'm happy to say to Labor and the Greens, in good faith: if you want to go further with this bill, by all means, do so. I would happily look at supporting that. This is a step in the right direction. I don't see why you wouldn't support it in good faith.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also rise to speak on the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill. I think it's fair to say that everyone in this place wants to see some level of reform, Senator Rennick. The contribution that you just made reminds me of a family member of mine, who is no longer with me now, but who certainly did listen a lot to a particular radio station that had the trots and racing and who ultimately did have an issue with gambling. He wasn't of the generation that had these things. You can only imagine the impact that gambling has on family and friends and many people in our community.</para>
<para>It is fair to say that everyone in this place genuinely wants to see serious reform. It is a process whereby we need to look at every piece of legislation as it comes into parliament for consideration. That's not to say that this government isn't doing anything about gambling generally. As you and others would know, through you, Chair, the government has set up an inquiry in the other place, in the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs. I would say the hope is that reforms will come out of that inquiry. I'm not sure exactly when that report is due. My understanding is that, at some stage this year, there will be some serious reforms that come out of that process.</para>
<para>It is important that, as a government and as a parliament, we respect the processes of our committees in this place. If we are to jump the gun, so to speak, what is the point of our committee structures? We should allow the members of parliament to do the work they're doing now, to go through the reports, the analysis and the evidence that's currently before them, and then sit down and actually work together about how we can best put forward reforms that tackle a scourge that is on our society, Senator Rennick. It's important that we listen to every member of this place. It's also important that we respect the processes. I would hope that everyone in the Senate would at least wait for the report that comes out of the House of Representatives before making their final position.</para>
<para>I wanted to add that the general feeling in the community is that we do need to do more and we do need to act in this policy area. Research from the Institute of Family Studies suggests that when people are exposed to wagering in advertising 21 per cent are prompted to start betting for the first time, 28 per cent tried a new form of betting, 29 per cent said that they placed bets on impulse, and a third of people increased their betting. This research also found that three in four Australians gambled at least once during the past 12 months and, of those, almost half were classified as being at some risk of harm from wagering.</para>
<para>These are some pretty confronting statistics and they suggest that most recent government action, in this space, implemented by the coalition government in 2018 had failed. It is also worth noting that this sudden interest in gambling harm reduction, on the other side, has also developed almost half a decade of inaction and inadequate policies. Now those opposite are attempting to reform this important and very complex area with a piecemeal private senator's bill today here in the Senate. Ultimately, the bill reforms some areas but ignores the totality of advertising.</para>
<para>I think the contribution from Senator Cox summed it up quite well too. We need to look at the whole package when it comes to advertising. In contrast to the coalition, the government is committed to getting this reform right, which is why there is a significant body of work being done to engage with stakeholders and community groups and develop a well-considered serious bill.</para>
<para>Part of this work is the inquiry, as I mentioned earlier, being conducted by the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Social Policy and Legal Affairs. We are waiting on the report and its recommendations to come back to the parliament. As senators we should have a particular appreciation for respecting the work of a committee rather than jumping ahead and proposing a reform without regard for the recommendations that will come through the committee processes.</para>
<para>For those listening today in the gallery, it is important to note the work of this inquiry. The inquiry has particular regard to a number of areas:</para>
<list>the effectiveness of existing consumer protections aimed at reducing online gambling harm</list>
<list>how to better target programs to address online gambling harm to reduce the potential exploitation of at-risk people, and protect individuals, families and communities</list>
<list>the effectiveness of current counselling and support services to address online gambling harm</list>
<list>the quality of and access to protective online gambling education programs</list>
<list>the impact of current regulatory and licensing regimes for online gambling on the effectiveness of harm minimisation and consumer protection efforts</list>
<list>the appropriateness of the definition of 'gambling service' in the Interactive Gambling Act 2001 (Cth), and whether it should be amended to capture additional gambling-like activities such as simulated gambling in video games (e.g. 'loot boxes' and social casino games)</list>
<list>the appropriateness of current gambling regulations in light of emerging technologies, payment options and products</list>
<list>the effectiveness of protections against illegal online gambling services, including casino style gambling such as online blackjack and slot machines</list>
<list>the effectiveness of current gambling advertising restrictions on limiting children's exposure to gambling products and services (e.g. promotion of betting odds during live sport broadcasts), including consideration of the impact of advertising through social media, sponsorship or branding from online licenced gambling operators, and</list>
<list>any other related matters.</list>
<para>As you can see, that's quite a comprehensive terms of reference currently before the other place, in terms of the impacts of online gambling on social media. These are all significant areas of interest and concern, and as a senator I'd like to see the outcomes and recommendations of this inquiry before we vote on reform in this place.</para>
<para>That's why the bill that is currently before us is somewhat premature. I would urge the coalition to come back to this place when we get the final report from that inquiry. Senator Henderson, I think it would be in your interest and the interest of the whole parliament that we consider the report of that House of Representatives committee stage before we make final consideration. As a former member of the other place I'm sure you would appreciate their committee processes as much as we appreciate ours. I think there needs to be that level of respect, on the committee processes, in the parliament. But I must say that it's obvious to me, from my reading, that the bill before us is somewhat half-baked and incomplete, Senator Henderson. As Senator Cox and others have mentioned, it is only focused on certain parts of the media spectrum—radio, TV and live streaming. We really need to look at the whole package, the whole suite, that is impacting a number of people, particularly those who are impacted by problem gambling. I think the contribution of those things should be looked at with some level of detail. A harm-minimisation approach needs to consider multichannels and situations.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why don't you start with this, Senator Ciccone? It's a very good start!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't know if that's something you've considered, Senator Henderson. But it would help also if the coalition actually spoke to the industry, spoke to community groups and spoke to the range of organisations that have written to the House of Representatives inquiry, asking to give their input—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We're actually sitting this week, Senator Ruston. It would be important to look at the evidence that's being put by the industry, who actually do want to work with the government of the day in terms of making serious reforms. There are also a number of community groups who want to work with the government. I'm not sure if the coalition did consult those groups or not. I don't think that they did. Any reform in this area should be evidence based and, as parliamentarians, we should make use of the committee process to inform the development of the bills. The broad range of issues that need to be considered when reforming gambling advertising are being looked at by the committee. That's why the government will await the House of Representatives inquiry's final report and the full suite of evidence before proposing any changes.</para>
<para>I acknowledge the work being done by that committee and, particularly, the chair. It is a difficult policy, with many stakeholders seeking many different outcomes. I look forward to reviewing the report when it's complete.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We don't want review, we want action! You can support this!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the process that we have to go through, Senator Henderson, as you did when you were last in government. I'm quite shocked to see that you are completely disregarding the processes of the parliament, particularly with those members in the other place who are doing a very good job in looking at this issue.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, get on with it and support this bill. Show you're serious!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it's fair to say there's a lot of common ground here, but we really want to get to a point, once the evidence and the reporting are actually finalised—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very passionate about this issue—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson! You—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for your protection, Acting Deputy President Smith. Not that I need it, but thank you again—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Henderson</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You shouldn't reflect on the President.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I won't be reflecting on the President, don't worry.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators! Senator Ciccone, please continue your remarks. Senate Henderson, please refrain from interjections.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The chair of that committee, and the committee, have undertaken that inquiry in a comprehensive way. Everyone in this place knows that reform is needed, but it's also difficult. If we do get it wrong there will be consequences—as the coalition did back in 2018. There were some reforms passed through this parliament but, to be honest, they didn't really have the impact and the effect that I guess you'd hoped for when you were last in government. That's probably why you're coming back to this place now with this piece of legislation, to try and get it through the parliament very quickly without any proper review or proper scrutiny.</para>
<para>Just because we're waiting on the recommendations from this committee doesn't mean that this government has also been sitting still. There have been a number of reforms that make sense; they've already had broad support and the government has committed to them. This includes banning credit cards for online gambling. This is very much a commonsense policy which means people aren't gambling with money that they don't have. I think most Australians would agree that if you're gambling with a credit card then you probably shouldn't be gambling at all. As I said earlier—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's a bit judgemental!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You weren't here earlier, Senator Ruston, but, having seen a family member go through that, I think it's a good, sensible reform. It's not the only reform that this government will probably undertake, but some reform is better. It's good to see that at least when we consult with industry and consult with community groups we do get better outcomes.</para>
<para>We're also strengthening the classification of gambling-like features in video games to help protect children from exposure to harmful gambling practices and then developing concerning gambling habits. The government will also launch a self-exclusion register known as BetStop. BetStop will allow Australians to actively exclude themselves from online wagering and betting services in a single step for a minimum of three months and up to a lifetime. This is a significant reform which will allow Australians who recognise that they have a problem with online gambling to take positive and tangible steps to protect themselves from further gambling harm.</para>
<para>If this chamber is going to politicise this issue instead of waiting for the recommendations—that's all we're saying: be patient and wait for the recommendations from the inquiry in the House of Representatives, as would be appropriate—then let's take a look at the history of policy in this space. The only reason we have restrictions on gambling ads during live sport is that Labor acted on this when we were last in government. That's right. After a decade of coalition government, what did you actually do? It was a Labor government that implemented those reforms and called for further restrictions while in opposition. The fact is that the Liberals and Nationals are the architects of the current arrangements, which they now claim they want to change, and the architects of restrictions that have now proven to be inadequate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You can't revise history just because you're flapping your lips!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Research by the regulator, the Australian Communications and Media Authority, found that there was a 50 per cent increase in the total volume of gambling spots on television and radio, following the introduction of the last set of gambling ad restrictions in 2018. Despite the fact that these figures from ACMA were released in 2019 and showed a 50 per cent increase in the volume of gambling spots on TV and radio, the coalition made no attempt to rectify the situation. They brought in the current gambling advertising rules and the commercial broadcasting tax, both of which were part of a broader deal struck with some media companies, which had little to do with harm minimisation. They took far too long to implement the National Consumer Protection Framework, and, four years after the framework was established, only six out of 10 important measures had actually been implemented.</para>
<para>In summary, I think it's fair to say that we should be waiting for the inquiry from the other place. I look forward to the coalition supporting the government's reforms, which, unlike this bill before us today, will be well considered and informed by a committee process.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion as moved by Senator Ruston that the question be put be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:01]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As my colleague Senator Hanson-Young has said previously, the gambling industry feeds of addiction and profits from wrecking families' lives and sport. We have heard the government's contribution on the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023, and it is hard to know quite how to characterise the government's contribution other than maybe they are riffing off Saint Augustine.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Excuse me, Senator Shoebridge. Senators, if you can please leave the chamber if you want to talk or sit down and be quiet, so we can listen to Senator Shoebridge.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's contribution on this bill and on gambling reform generally seems to be a kind of riff on Saint Augustine—you know, their position on the bill is, 'Oh Lord, give me gambling reform, but don't give it to me yet.' That is their basic position, but I think they have read more into Saint Augustine's writings because, if you look, you can also see another core part of Labor policy on gambling. It's another quote from Sanit Augustine: 'Faith is to believe in what you do not see.' Those are the two things that summarise Labor's position on gambling reforms. Faith is to believe in what we do not yet see from Labor.</para>
<para>There is a reason for that. It is because they are in part purchased by the gambling industry. They keep making donations to the Labor Party, and they are getting the kind of snail-paced pretend reform, faux reform, that they're paying for. It's a pretty simple analysis: you give a political party a bunch of money to prevent effective reform and then you see it play out here. You see it play out in an endless, slow-moving parliamentary committee. We all know this is urgent. We all know there is a pressing need, particularly to stop these gambling ads saturating the feeds of young people and working people. We know it is an urgent matter for reform, but where is the urgency from the government?</para>
<para>The response from the government is the kind of response the gambling industry has paid for. They are getting a really solid return on their donations to the Labor Party, and that is pretty, bloody clear. It is really depressing to see the way in which the gambling industry is degrading sports in this country—in fact, degrading sports across the planet because sport has always represented human excellence. Through teamwork, mental and physical skill and endurance, sports bring out the best in us, which is why, at no matter what age, Australians love our sport. From childhood to adulthood, Australians have always found sports to be an integral part of our social and cultural life. We wear the jersey with pride, whether playing for our club or cheering on our favourite team. It is part of who we are, and it taps into our core emotions from excitement, to anxiety, to elation, and, as we saw last night as New South Wales supporters, heartbreak. Sports always have and always will be a beautiful representation of human excellence—except at Suncorp Stadium and Lang Park!</para>
<para>It is something we enjoy with our friends and our family and something that actually brings us all together, but over the last several decades sports, like so much else under this dollar-driven market capitalist economy that dominates our social, our economic, our personal lives, sports have become severely commodified in the form of sports betting. In this country you can't escape sports betting advertising. When we catch public transport, we see it up there on buses, trains and trams. When we're online, we see it in the videos rolling in, suggesting the videos we watch, link after link to bet on the latest game or the upcoming match. And when we watch television or listen to radio, listen to podcasts, we are literally being bombarded with ads for sports betting. It has become almost inescapable in this country. The Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation's recent report found that children and young adults now intrinsically associate betting with sports as a result of being bombarded with sports betting ads. That is so deeply wrong, but that is the link that the gambling industry are willing to pay millions and millions for. They're willing to pay for the ads to saturate our social media feeds, to bombard us when we're on the train, to grab our attention in the middle of the match and before the match. They're paying to make that addictive link. They pay millions to make billions. That's what the gambling industry does with advertising. They pay millions for advertising to make billions in profits off some of the most vulnerable in this country.</para>
<para>In my home state of New South Wales, gambling is a massive problem. In many ways New South Wales is a society which has one of the worst gambling problems on the planet. It is estimated that gambling losses in the last several years have exceeded $9.5 billion a year. That's just losses. That's not the total amount that's gambled; that's just the amount that's been lost by ordinary people all across my home state of New South Wales—$9.5 billion a year, and probably more than that. While pokies are still the biggest problem in New South Wales, with losses of more than $7 billion per year just on poker machines, or $21½ million a day every day in my home state—</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>11</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6989" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
            <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Normal">Consideration resumed of the motion:</span>
            </p>
            <p class="HPS-Small" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
              <span class="HPS-Small">That this bill be now read a second time.</span>
            </p>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will not be opposing this bill, the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023, but that doesn't mean to say we don't hold very serious concerns about how this Albanese Labor government will manage the transition of vulnerable Australians off the BasicsCard and onto the so-called SmartCard. The government has taken an extraordinarily ideological position on abolishing the compulsory cashless debit card, and that has seen an absolute disaster unfold in our vulnerable communities in the country. There is clear and irrefutable evidence showing that, since the compulsory nature of the cashless debit card was abolished by the Labor government, crime rates are already through the roof.</para>
<para>We had a similar debate in this place last year when the government applauded themselves for abolishing the cashless debit card. During that debate we on this side of the chamber made it very clear to the government that serious and devastating consequences would follow the abolition of the card. We pleaded with the government at the time not to do this: if you do this, if you abolish the cashless debit card, 'as sure as night follows day we will see alcohol and drugs flood into vulnerable communities' and the subsequent antisocial behaviour that will inevitably follow. That was not theoretical. It wasn't us making a political point. You don't need to be a genius to work out the consequences of ripping out an important social support system from vulnerable communities, and yet the government went ahead and did it anyway. And now we are seeing the statistics, which don't lie.</para>
<para>I put on the record how disappointed I am in the Greens about their capitulation to the Labor Party on an amendment that we put forward that would have required the government to provide details of the crime and social harm statistics—the Greens teaming up with the Labor Party to deny transparency around something that has such devastating consequences for communities. I still intend to move my amendments in relation to this and hope that maybe some common sense and decency might prevail in this place. I put on the record that I will be moving a second reading amendment to effect.</para>
<para>In a roundtable earlier this year in the parliament, community members and leaders from the Goldfields and Kimberley regions of Western Australia came to the parliament and told us themselves what was happening on the ground. They outlined how now, once again, they are seeing children coming to school having not eaten because there's no food at home. They're having to rely more and more on the school system to try and help them through. But when the cashless debit card was in place, we saw a huge improvement in this area because welfare recipients were spending 80 per cent of the money that they were receiving on everyday goods that you'd find at the supermarket. Now, sadly, we're seeing so much of that money spent in the bottle shop and the pub, and we're seeing the human misery and the suffering that have resulted from more drugs and alcohol in these communities. Story after story confirms these statistics. Towns such as Ceduna in South Australia had been seeing a resurgence of tourism and had a great level of harmony whilst the cashless debit card was in place. Now, they've seen that almost vanish overnight, with many long-term residents of the town opting to actually move away from their community. This is heartbreaking. No-one in this chamber wants to see these people or these communities suffer, I would hope. It beggars belief that the government would put in place a policy that they know will lead to suffering of women and children, because we know that more drugs and alcohol flowing into communities will disproportionately harm women and children.</para>
<para>This is a very narrow bill in that it helps transition people who are on the compulsory BasicsCard in the Northern Territory from the old BasicsCard technology to the updated technology that was the basis for the cashless debit card. Those opposite criticised the government for the CDC, and yet they're now relying on the very technology that the CDC had in place on a compulsory basis. So they're intending to transition everybody in the Northern Territory on the BasicsCard to the CDC technology—technology that was developed by the coalition. On the one hand, we are so appalled by what the government has done here that our first inclination is to say that we don't support anything the government does in this space. They have tarnished themselves so badly and they have disregarded the needs of communities that we should not support anything that they do when it comes to income management.</para>
<para>It's also worth mentioning a couple of things in relation to the so-called SmartCard. The SmartCard is a rebranded cashless debit card. That is all it is. All you have to do is look at some of the providers of those cards and what they've said about the updated SmartCard, a card that has cost $217.7 million. As the Traditional Credit Union explained to its cardholders, the difference between the CDC and the new SmartCard is—drumroll!—its colour and its name. That's what $217 million gets you under a Labor government—a change in colour and a change in name. Why would you spend $217 million to take a technology that was already in place, developed by the coalition, and simply rename it? Notwithstanding the absolutely appalling waste of taxpayers' money, at least those on the BasicsCard in the Northern Territory will now get access to the updated technology that the coalition developed with the CDC. In that respect, and for that reason, we will not stand in its way.</para>
<para>But leaders from cashless debit card sites, community leaders and Indigenous leaders, are saying, 'Please reinstate the cashless debit card and help us deal with the dysfunction, violence and alcoholism that we are now seeing again.' Sadly, what we've seen from those opposite, from the minister, the assistant minister and the Prime Minister, is this approach of talking down to communities instead of listening to them. At a time when there has been a lot of talk about Anthony Albanese's Voice to Parliament, it is ironic that this government is not listening to the voices of those in these communities who are witnessing the harm of this government's decision and what it has caused to their communities. Speaking to the ABC Goldfields on 15 February, the Assistant Minister for Social Services claimed that communities were being disingenuous in their criticism of the government's repeal of the CDC. I sincerely hope the government intends to walk back those comments. I wouldn't want to be out there as a minister criticising those who are on the front line, on the ground, currently having to deal with the mess that has been created by this government. Those people on the ground are the ones who are having to help intoxicated people in the street find safety. They are the emergency services workers and the police who are there to respond to increased violence, including violence against women and children. So I appeal to the people of the Labor Party and those at the other end of the chamber.</para>
<para>There is an off-ramp here. I think the Australian people will give you more credit if you admit that you've made a mistake rather than push on with this bad policy. Walk back from this catastrophic error which is leading to more crime, including violent crime, in vulnerable communities. This pigheadedness around the cashless debit card, letting politics get in the way of the best interests of vulnerable people in community, is, quite frankly, a shameful indictment on the Albanese Labor government. They are essentially saying, 'Don't worry about the people that suffer along the way, because we don't want to suffer the embarrassment or indignity of admitting that we made the wrong call.' The coalition will unreservedly congratulate the government for admitting that it has made an error. I think we would all walk away from here feeling relieved and grateful that there were women and children who were safer because there were fewer drugs and there was less alcohol in these vulnerable communities, because, let's be frank: that's exactly what we're talking about here today.</para>
<para>Finally, I appeal to the government: it's not too late to reinstate the compulsory nature of the CDC in the sites where it was working exceptionally well. If you don't believe me, then believe the community representatives from the Goldfields, from the Kimberleys, from Ceduna and other places around Australia who have seen a tsunami of drugs and alcohol causing huge crime problems in their communities. Since the card has been abolished in these communities, we've seen crime statistics double—I'll repeat that: crime statistics double. These crimes we're talking about are of public disorder and crimes against property, whether it be a broken window or a fight on the street. But we're also talking about horrific and violent crimes. Tragically, we're talking about domestic violence; we're talking about the neglect of children. If this doesn't tug at the consciences of those in government and encourage them to take action, I really don't know what will.</para>
<para>That is why I'll be moving an amendment that sets out the catastrophic error that Labor has made and calls on the government to reinstate the compulsory cashless debit card to help these communities, because the coalition introduced the cashless debit card to protect vulnerable communities and its people and reduce the amount of welfare payments that were being spent on alcohol, gambling and drugs. Since the program commenced, participants have made more than 20 million approved transactions with the CDC, with over $273 million spent where the primary product is food.</para>
<para>But the harm and hardship that the government's abolition of the CDC has caused some of Australia's most vulnerable communities should not be understated. So we will be calling on the government to, without delay, reverse its decision to abolish the cashless debit card and stop the alcohol-fuelled violence, drug abuse and child neglect in our most vulnerable communities.</para>
<para>But, as I said, the coalition will not be opposing this bill. We won't be opposing it particularly because people in the Northern Territory who have been on compulsory income management, and remain on compulsory income management under this government—that is the BasicsCard—are getting access to the functionality that is the CDC, rebranded. But the opposition's support of this bill in no way means that we walk away from our vehement opposition to the ideological and destructive decision by the government to abolish the compulsory cashless debit card which has proved critical in supporting vulnerable communities. I condemn the government for doing it.</para>
<para>I formally move my second reading amendment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Coalition introduced the Cashless Debit Card to protect vulnerable communities reducing the amount of welfare payments available to spend on alcohol, gambling and illegal drugs,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) since the Cashless Debit Card program commenced more than $988 million has been spent using cashless debit card accounts; participants making more than 20 million approved transactions with over $273 million spent where the primary business is food,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the harm and hardship the Government's abolition of the Cashless Debit Card has caused some of Australia's most vulnerable communities,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the Government's hypocrisy by reintroducing the Cashless Debit Card and rebranding it the SmartCard with the new card supported by the same provider Indue,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the Government has committed over $217 million of taxpayers' funds to this expensive rebranding exercise,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) the Government has failed to provide details of the total cost to taxpayers of the new SmartCard, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vii) the Government has rushed and total mismanaged transition to the SmartCard; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to, without delay, reverse its decision to abolish the Cashless Debit Card program and stop the alcohol-fuelled violence, drug abuse and childhood neglect in our most vulnerable communities".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This bill is fundamentally a broken promise from the Labor Party. In opposition, they were, to their credit, very clear: they said that they would abolish the cashless debit card. They said that they would end compulsory income management. There were no asterisks, no footnotes; they simply told people that they would end a horrific practice that had been perpetrated by the Liberals since 2007. I'd like to quote from a statement made by the then opposition spokesperson on social services, the now Minister for Indigenous Australians, the Hon. Linda Burney MP, and she said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our fundamental principle on the basics card and the cashless debit card, it should be on a voluntary basis … If people want to be on those sorts of income management, then that's their decision. It's not up to Labor or anyone else to tell them what to do. At the moment it's compulsion and that's not Labor's position.</para></quote>
<para>This was just before the election last year. Labor have broken that promise.</para>
<para>I want to be clear: this isn't a question where the research is open. Despite the opposition's use of cherrypicked anecdotes, there is very clear evidence of the harm that compulsory income management has caused for many years. In 2007, the Australian Human Rights Commission concluded that:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Controlling how a person spends their money is a drastic interference into the way a person manages his or her life and family, and human rights require a proportionate response to a problem. In the context of the NT legislation, this means that governments are obliged to consider less intrusive or voluntary option as a first response before moving to options as broad-reaching as compulsory income management.</para></quote>
<para>In 2014 the Social Policy Research Centre concluded:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The evaluation data does not provide evidence of income management having improved the outcomes that it was intending to have an impact upon.</para></quote>
<para>In 2016 the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… evidence before the committee indicates that compulsory income management is not effective in achieving its stated objective of supporting vulnerable individuals and families.</para></quote>
<para>And in 2020 the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights said in relation to the cashless debit card:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The trial evaluations and reviews raise a range of concerns as to whether the cashless welfare scheme is effective to achieve its stated goals, and whether it has caused or contributed to other harms.</para></quote>
<para>That evidence of the human rights violations and the ineffectiveness of the policy were reinforced by the community affairs committee inquiry into the bill. I want to start quoting, particularly, from some of the experts who gave evidence to the inquiry. Professor Matthew Gray, Director of the Australian National University Centre for Social Research and Methods, said in evidence to the committee:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we are, to put it frankly, horrified by what is proposed both in the legislation and in the documentation which has been provided to the parliament in the form of the explanatory memorandum.Turning to the explanatory memorandum and the document which underpins and is cited in the impact analysis executive summary, the department's <inline font-style="italic">Reforming the cashless debit card and incom</inline><inline font-style="italic">e management</inline>, the statement grossly distorts the evidence base relating to the effectiveness of the programs.</para></quote>
<para>Emeritus Professor Jon Altman said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… in 2007, when income management was first introduced, I opposed it as lacking policy logic and lacking any evidence from anywhere globally that it might work to improve the circumstances of targeted Indigenous people in the Northern Territory. Instead, I suggested, it would be expensive to administer and likely ineffective. Sadly, nearly 16 years on, that prediction had proven correct—not just today in 2023 but over many years, many evaluations and many Senate inquiries.</para></quote>
<para>I want to be clear, though, that this isn't some abstract policy question. It has a very real, very devastating impact on people's lives. As the Aboriginal Peak Organisations Northern Territory, APO NT, said in their powerful submission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is disappointing to yet again be making submissions on a Bill that clearly ignores the evidence that has debunked compulsory income management.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">APO NT reminds the Government of our support for the repeal of the Cashless Debit Card. We note that while this has allowed <inline font-style="italic">some</inline> participants to exit income management or voluntarily opt into income management, this is not the case for the majority of NT participants who remain on compulsory income management. Therefore, Aboriginal people in the NT have suffered the longest under this regime and this Bill does nothing to change this.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Despite the Albanese Government's stated intentions of consultation, or stated long term aim that income management is on a voluntary basis, it is important to view the practical and legislative effect of this Bill. The Bill continues the trend of making income management, and in particular compulsory income management, a permanent feature of social services in Australia, without adequate consultation.</para></quote>
<para>I particularly want to quote this point from APO NT:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The legislative effect of the Bill is the opposite of the Albanese Government's pre-election statements that income management should only occur on a voluntary basis.</para></quote>
<para>That is an incredibly strong statement from a peak First Nations organisation, but this government hasn't listened.</para>
<para>I also want to quote the powerful resolution made by the full Central Land Council on 28 April this year, which is included in the Central Land Council's submission to the inquiry:</para>
<quote><para class="block">How many times do we have to say it until the government listens to our voices?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since Income Management was introduced in 2007 as part of the Commonwealth Government's Intervention in the NT, we have said no.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A different card, a different colour—it is all for the same purpose: to control our lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are not guinea pigs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The CLC calls on the government to end all forms of compulsory income management now.</para></quote>
<para>Only this week that the parliament passed the bill enabling a referendum on the Voice to Parliament, but here we have the Central Land Council asking government to listen, and they have chosen not to.</para>
<para>In fact, it is government imposed compulsory income management that has in some cases undermined genuinely voluntary community-led services. The Arnhem Land Progress Association said in evidence to the committee:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is the ALPA board's position that income management should only ever be voluntary, regardless of whether participants have been long-term welfare recipients or not … We have run our own voluntary income management program, known as Foodcard, since 2004 … the introduction of compulsory income management saw the usage of the ALPA Foodcard drop off dramatically. In October 2008 there were over 11,000 community transactions on the Foodcard in ALPA stores and, by 2010, this was below a thousand. The ALPA Foodcard is evidence that community members are more than capable of identifying and engaging with services which can support financial management when they feel that they need to.</para></quote>
<para>We have heard arguments from the minister and others that we need to wait for more consultation. Indeed, I've been told that we need to wait until the Voice is up and running before we can end compulsory income management—before an approach even on compulsory income management can be finalised. That ignores the reality that First Nations communities right now are calling for an end to compulsory income management. The default is simply to rely on the failed and punitive system that was set up by the Liberal Party as part of John Howard's intervention. It was already baked into the system by the Liberal government, and now the Labor government is committed to sticking with it, despite the urgent calls for action. Instead of ignoring the voices of First Nations communities, they should be setting a clear sunset date that ensures that, if First Nations voices call for a form of income management, there's deep consultation and a clear proposal put to parliament—not stringing along on a broken, failed perpetuation of a Liberal Party policy.</para>
<para>I want to thank advocates, campaigners and community organisations who provided important evidence to the committee inquiry on this bill. The Accountable Income Management Network, the Antipoverty Centre, the Australian Council of Social Service, the Northern Territory Council of Social Service, Uniting Communities, Economic Justice Australia, Suicide Prevention Australia and other organisations, advocates and individuals provided powerful and important evidence. I thank them for their advocacy on this issue. I'm sad to say that the Labor Party has chosen to ignore it. It shouldn't have to be this way. We will keep fighting for better policies—ones that genuinely improve people's lives rather than punish them and perpetuate the tired, stale ideas that the old parties have been embracing for decades.</para>
<para>We heard from the minister that consultation is underway. We agree that consultation is important, but it cannot be used as an excuse for inaction when the voices are so clear now. We asked community organisations, such as the Central Land Council, what consultation they had been part of so far. The Central Land Council told us:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In summary, the consultation has been through brief phone conversations and online briefing to the CLC policy team. It's been quite limited, the consultation process. We want the consultation process to be properly carried out and to be an extensive consultation process.</para></quote>
<para>So at this point it appears that consultation is more a reason for delay rather than progress towards genuine change.</para>
<para>I'm particularly concerned about reports in the pages of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline> In an article titled 'Leaders eye Pearson's way on welfare' on 24 March they reported:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Both the Northern Territory and federal governments said they were open to extending the program beyond the cape, with sources revealing senior commonwealth bureaucrats were pushing for its expansion behind the scene.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Closer examination of the FRC's welfare control measures, which require state and federal support, began after the Albanese government fulfilled an election pledge to scrap compulsory income management last year.</para></quote>
<para>The simple reality is that even the cashless debit card, which the Labor government campaigned so heavily against, required a new bill to pass through parliament before it was expanded to other areas. My predecessor Rachel Siewert campaigned against many of those bills. There was a public debate about what the government was intending. But this bill takes the ministerial powers currently available under the BasicsCard framework and extends them to new technology provided by the cashless debit card. The combination means it will be much, much easier for the minister to expand compulsory income management to new geographic areas. It will be possible to do so by legislative instrument, and, given that we know that we've got the full support of the Liberal Party for any of this draconian compulsory income management, there's no way that there'll be any opposition to it. It won't require a bill through parliament. It won't require the transparency and the scrutiny that would take place through that legislation having to come before the parliament.</para>
<para>We oppose this bill. We have an amendment to insert a sunset clause, but fundamentally this bill is one that the Liberals could have only dreamed of passing. But in government we have Labor enacting the Liberal Party's agenda. All the progressive campaigners across the country who fought so hard for the end of the cashless debit card, for what they thought was a progressive political party, will be asking themselves: what was it all for?</para>
<para>We have got some other amendments that we are moving, which I probably won't have a chance to speak to; maybe I will in the committee stage. Imposing a sunset date is the first one of those. The others include requiring regular reporting on the costs of the SmartCard scheme, requiring regular review by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights—which, given the significant concerns that have been raised about human rights, we think is a small, basic step towards what's required—and requiring review by the community affairs committee on the use of ministerial powers. Given this bill significantly expands the ministerial powers to roll out income management in new areas, we think that would be basic oversight. Our final amendment requires an exit clause for people at risk of harm from the card. There was an exit clause from the cashless debit card for those at risk of harm, but there is none in the SmartCard legislation, so we think this is a very straightforward step.</para>
<para>In summary, we are going to be opposing this bill. We think that it is overreach by this government. It is a broken promise from this government, who promised to end compulsory income management. Compulsory income management has been shown to not work. It has been shown to not be the effective solution. Yes, if there are problems in communities, we'll then address those problems, but don't continue to roll out something on the basis that you are expecting it to solve the problems when it has been clearly shown over so many years that compulsory income management does not work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've been involved with the cashless debit card long before anyone else here in this place. I was part of the initial town hall meeting that we held up in Kununurra, where the idea first emerged. Local Indigenous people and other community people up there said that they wanted something that would help them address the challenges and the issues that they're facing in their community. I was part of a consultation, and those who were in the meeting asked: 'Is there something that can be done? Is there any sort of technology solution?' I have to admit that, when I first heard the idea, I thought it was probably a bit too simplistic to think that a card or some sort of technology implementation would have such a big social impact as to meet the aspirations of those who were calling for it at the time. So I admit that I at first thought it that it might be a bit too far. But, after looking into it, working with the banks and the retailers to see if there actually was a technology solution, finding that there actually was, developing it as a policy to implement and bringing it forward to the government, we saw the trials of the cashless debit card occur in the East Kimberley, in Ceduna, in the Goldfields and in Bundaberg and Hervey Bay, and we saw a dramatic change in these communities.</para>
<para>I have been going to a lot of those communities for a long, long time—more than 15 or so years. I saw what the communities were like before the cashless debit card was implemented and I saw what they were like during the trials, with the changes that were occurring. More kids were going to school, and more were going to school with food in their bellies rather than going to school hungry. I have said in this place before that one anecdote that has probably stuck in my mind more than anything else was in Wyndham. The breakfast program that is run there would have to bring in extra food on a Monday morning compared to Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday mornings because students wouldn't have eaten since the Friday before when they last fed them because the money wasn't in the hands of their parents and carers to be able to provide food over the weekend because it had been spent needlessly on alcohol, some drugs and a lot of gambling as well. After the cashless debit card came in, the requirement to purchase and provide the extra food on a Monday was no longer there. It was like any other day because there was more money in parents' pockets to be able to provide the sustenance required for children. So I saw the difference that it made. Sadly, having gone back to some of these communities since the abolition of the card—a decision made by the Albanese government—I have seen these communities regressing back to where they were before the cashless debit card was implemented.</para>
<para>There are many ideologically driven policies that have come into this place and that this government is running with. We are seeing it in industrial relations. We are seeing it in relation to the economy, the budget and so forth. But one that really, really upsets me is this issue of the abolition of the cashless debit card. It is shameful. It is very disappointing. They have taken a political angle, an ideologically driven angle and, sadly, it is impacting upon the lives of vulnerable people in communities. I stood here in this very place and said that the abolition of the cashless debit card would have a catastrophic impact in communities, and that's exactly what we are seeing. We have heard from community leaders, particularly in the Goldfields, who've talked about the increase in domestic violence and alcohol related hospitalisations. It is devastating to see.</para>
<para>But this bill is something that we actually do support because it is allowing people who are on compulsory income management to be able to transition onto a better product. It is not a new product, despite what they like to say. It is not an enhanced new card. It's just the cashless debit card—let's be clear. It has different branding on it, but it is actually the cashless debit card that's being implemented. So we support that.</para>
<para>I have made these points here today to say that we know what it was like before the cashless debit card was implemented, we know what it was like during the cashless debit card's implementation and we know what the immediate differences have been since its abolition.</para>
<para>One of the amendments that has been proposed and which will be moved as a substantive amendment when we get to committee stage is to ensure that there is proper recording and reporting of key metrics to measure the social, health and wellbeing impacts within these communities. I would encourage the government and those in the Greens party to consider at least just supporting that amendment. It is all well and good to come in here with our ideologies, but we need to base them on some data and some evidence. If you don't have that then how do you know whether or not you are having a real impact? By measuring it, by reporting on it and by being transparent the government will have the ability to measure whether or not the decisions they have made are in fact making a difference or being detrimental to people's lives. So I urge the Senate to consider supporting that amendment when it comes before us, because I think it will make a big difference.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023 and the government's renewed attempt to forcibly control us as First Nations people through the racist, apartheid-style, paternalistic enhanced income management scheme, newly christened with the name 'SmartCard'. It's very smart of the government to be giving their cashless debit card a new name, hoping maybe we won't notice it is the same gammon scheme that is effective at nothing but further oppressing and controlling us. The government went into this election promising to end compulsory income management. We were promised change. Their blatant hypocrisy and racism, in reintroducing the cashless debit card 2.0 that locks in a compulsory income management, has been blasted by stakeholders across the board.</para>
<para>The committee inquiry into this bill showed almost unanimous calls to abolish compulsory income management. Income management has overwhelmingly been rejected by experts and First Nations communities for being ineffective, expensive and racist. It stands in conflict with First Nations rights, closing the gap, principles of self-determination and free, prior and informed consent. Any real commitment from the government must be to stop its attempts to forcibly control First Nations people, once again, and listen to our sovereign voices.</para>
<para>There is not even any evidence that it works. But there is plenty of evidence that shows the harm and violence it inflicts on individuals and communities, especially on First Nations people and our communities who, by design, it disproportionately targets. Yet for some reason, despite the overwhelming and almost unanimous evidence provided to the Community Affairs Committee on the need to urgently abolish compulsory income management, and the many problems with this bill, the committee report only referred to the government's plans to reform income management and the need for more in-depth consultation for transition arrangements.</para>
<para>Evidence shows there is no need for transition arrangements. If there were a full shift to voluntary income management, that would mean those who want it can still use it. But, in practice, this government continues to force more than 20,000 of almost entirely First Nations people in the Northern Territory, alone, to be on the scheme. And when will this forceable management end? Who knows. The lack of sunset clause of the bill means, yet again, people will be caught up in an even farther-reaching violent income management system.</para>
<para>This bill grants the government the power to expand income management across the country, where the social services minister can designate any state, territory or area as a voluntary income management site. The government is even collaborating with the same company, Indue, that ran the cashless debit card scheme. Every $6 spent on the administration of these cashless cards reaps in just one dollar benefit. It's full abolishment would save $286.5 million over the forward estimates.</para>
<para>I see no change here. I see absolutely no sense here. Think of where that money could go. If the minister cared for what our people needed, they would be bending over backwards to fully fund and resource Aboriginal community controlled organisations to provide services to our people on our terms. Instead, they opt for control, coercion and power over us—yet again.</para>
<para>All forms of income control have roots in the paternalistic racist systems of control over incomes, which were operated by Aboriginal protection boards for much of the 19th and 20th centuries. These so-called protection acts were used to forcibly separate our families, create division, disempower our people, try to destroy our cultures and assimilate the oldest culture in the world into the settler colonial society.</para>
<para>Our people were subject to near total control of movement over who they could marry or what jobs they could do. Our wages were stolen, our savings were taken and our property was seized. Your police services in this country stole our children from their families and put them to work. You continue to steal our children today at even greater rates. You do all this in the name of protection. The only thing we need protection from is colonisation. John Howard would be so proud of this Labor government. He championed income management during the NT intervention, where he said that First Nations people were incapable of self-determination, of managing their own affairs, of looking after themselves.</para>
<para>As the Labor government puts this bill in front of us, as the white saviours they are, once again, they are telling us what's good for us. We see through it. We have seen this type of protectionist colonial interference in our lives before. Labor needs to keep its election promise to abolish not just the name of the system but the nature of it.</para>
<para>To remind them of their promises, I will go through a list of all the times the government promised to end the cashless debit card. In April 2022, before this government was elected, Jim Chalmers, in a doorstop interview in Brisbane, said: 'Labor will abolish the cashless debit card. We couldn't be any clearer than that.' Mark Butler, in an interview on ABC Radio Adelaide, said, 'What we've said is we'll abolish the cashless debit card.' Katy Gallagher, in a TV interview on Sky, said, 'It shouldn't be used,' and that, 'We should abolish it.' Jim Chalmers, in a doorstop in Sydney, said, 'Our commitment, our assurance to Australians is that we will abolish the cashless debit card.' In June 2022, Amanda Rishworth, in a radio interview on ABC Eyre Peninsula and West Coast, said, 'We want to abolish the compulsory cashless debit card.' Amanda Rishworth, in a post-election statement on ABC radio interview, said, 'Labor made a commitment to abolish the privatised cashless debit card.'</para>
<para>In July 2022, Justine Elliot, in a media release, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the government is delivering on its commitment to abolish the Cashless Debit Card program …</para></quote>
<para>Amanda Rishworth, in a media release, said: 'The Albanese Labor government will abolish the cashless debit card.' Amanda Rishworth, in an interview on Sky News, said, '$170 million of taxpayers' money was spent on this with no evidence that it will work.'</para>
<para>Amanda Rishworth, in a media release, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government is delivering on its election commitments and will today introduce legislation to Parliament to abolish the Cashless Debit Card.</para></quote>
<para>Justine Elliot, in a radio interview on ABC Perth, said: 'We know how destructive it's been, right throughout the country. I've spoken with many people whose lives are being destroyed by being forced onto the cashless debit card.'</para>
<para>Anthony Albanese, in a question without notice—from the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline><inline font-style="italic">—</inline>said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we're about empowering communities, not taking power away from them … not a patronising position that says, 'We know best,' not one that extended the cashless debit card into communities.</para></quote>
<para>In August 2022, Amanda Rishworth, in a TV interview on ABC, 'It will just be a matter of calling up Australia to exit from the program.' Amanda Rishworth, in a press conference in Darwin, said, 'We've been very clear that our first point is to abolish the cashless debit card.'</para>
<para>From September 2022, a joint media release by Amanda Rishworth, Linda Burney, Bill Shorten and Justine Elliot reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will abolish the cashless debit card program.</para></quote>
<para>A joint media release by Amanda Rishworth, Linda Burney and Justine Elliott reads:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Albanese Labor Government has today delivered on a key election commitment and secured the passage of legislation to abolish the failed cashless debit card program.</para></quote>
<para>Amanda Rishworth, in a press conference at Parliament House, said, 'We have always said when it comes to income management it is up to communities to choose how they use income management, how they enable people to get onto income management.' On 28 September, Linda Burney, in a press conference at Parliament House, said, 'Labor's fundamental position is that we do not believe in mandatory income management.' Justine Elliot, in a press conference at Parliament House, said: 'I am so proud to be part of the Albanese Labor government and to be abolishing the cashless debit card. This card has destroyed lives.' In October 2022, Anthony Albanese, in an address to the New South Wales Labor Conference, said, 'Australians voted to abolish the discrimination of the cashless debit card, and it is gone.' This system is not gone.</para>
<para>I call on the government today to make good on their promise and call for (1) all forms of compulsory income management to be abolished immediately; (2) the income management reform bill to be amended to make income management through enhanced income management voluntary, allow participants to exit the scheme at any time, include a sunset clause and remove the extended powers of the minister; and (3) substantive investment in social services and wraparound supports for communities, developed through a self-determined approach. Until you do this, let's tell the truth: it's putting black people back on rations.</para>
<para>Labor, why are you so gammin? Why are you doing this to our people? Why are you destroying our people's lives through a racist regime that involves controlling people's lives and not allowing any self-determination? You know the harms of this card. You all walk around freely with your credit cards. Can you imagine, for one moment, having to choose which shop you can go to and the racism that you have to deal with when you pull out your income BasicsCard—the racist card?</para>
<para>How about every politician in this place also being mandatorily put on this racist card that will control your lives? How about we do that for the next week and see how you like it? No more fancy dinners, no more fancy events, no more fancy clothes, no more fancy food and your whole life controlled by a card that says that you need help and that you can't have control over your own life anymore—you have to have this card that will control your life, which is controlled by the government because we need to maintain control of First Nations people in this country. That's what the King wants us to do after all: keep us on the bottom rung, keep us desperate, keep us homeless, keep us imprisoned, keep us poor and keep us experiencing the systemic racism every single day of our lives, no matter where we are or who we are.</para>
<para>Labor, you should be ashamed of yourself. I don't how some people sleep at night when they do this to their own people. Let's not support this. Let's get our people off the rations that this colonial system has to offer. We're giving back the beads, the trinkets and the blankets, and we simply want our land back.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023. The hypocrisy and the mistruths of the Labor government in this space have been very clearly articulated by previous speakers, so I won't go through the long list again—the broken promises in terms of supposedly eliminating the cashless debit card but then actually keeping it, calling it the enhanced card and replacing the BasicsCard with it.</para>
<para>I want to speak very briefly to an amendment that's been circulated in my name and will be moved by Senator Ruston. It would require the minister to regularly table information on those previous cashless debit card sites. Why do we want to do this? We want to do this because we want to understand what's happening in those sites, and we also want to hold this government to account. I particularly call on the crossbenchers to think about this. This government has promised those local communities services. They have promised them wraparound services. They have promised them on-the-ground support. They have promised them money to fund those services.</para>
<para>Let's find out if this government is actually delivering those things. Let's find out if this government is actually helping those communities on the ground to actually improve their circumstances. As my good friend Senator O'Sullivan has quite clearly demonstrated in this place: anecdotally, we all know that those communities have gone backwards. We have seen it on the ground and heard it from the people living on the ground. Just putting in this small reporting obligation on the minister will keep this government honest. I know that's a long bow to draw, but, at the very least, we should try and do that.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023. As my colleague Senator Rice has already outlined, the Greens have some serious concerns about this bill, which essentially is bringing back the cashless debit card by another name: the SmartCard. I'd like to turn our minds back—as many others have mentioned here today and many times before—to before the election, when Labor made campaign promises to abolish the cashless debit card. I would strongly argue that this doesn't actually count as fulfilling an election promise when you introduce it by giving it a different name and a different colour.</para>
<para>So Labor is okay with breaking those promises but is too scared to touch things like stage 3 tax cuts—that was also an election promise. Guess what other promise the government has also broken? It was a promise that the new Prime Minister made on their election night—that no-one would be left behind. This is in fact a very sneaky and dangerous move by the government, who want you to believe that improving the technology is what they're up to. This bill will in fact expand the powers being given to the minister to roll out compulsory income management right across the country.</para>
<para>Income management has its place. However, it must be voluntary, and that's been said time and time again in numerous reports and media releases. But forcing people into such schemes doesn't actually help them build any financial independence. Senator Rice mentioned the Minister for Indigenous Australians when she spoke about how the fundamental principles of the BasicsCard and the cashless debit card should mean that they're issued on a voluntary basis. This government has said repeatedly that it would abolish the cashless debit card, so what's changed? Now we have more than 20,000 people trapped in compulsory income management, and we know that those schemes disproportionately impact First Nations people, which was also mentioned here today in this chamber. And the government knows this. Various levels of government have looked at this over the years, in organisations, on think tanks, in advocacy groups, in numerous inquiries before I came to this place and people like former senator Rachel Siewert were involved in some of those inquiries looking into the consequences and the harm of imposing compulsory income management.</para>
<para>This bill today was subject to an inquiry which only held one hearing, which Senator Rice was part of, and this inquiry heard from First Nations people who talked about how compulsory income management doesn't work for them. But, again, this government in this place, in this week when we have passed a bill on a voice to parliament, is ignoring First Nations voices on critical issues such as this. This bill is a continuation of failed policy, and there is a large body of evidence showing compulsory income management doesn't work. We had members of the government in the last round of speeches get up and say, 'Everything we implement will be evidence based.' Guess what? This is evidence based, and you're ignoring the evidence on it. You continue to go down this line, and the government are hell-bent and clearly intent on breaking their promise and ignoring First Nations people's voices and pursuing a policy that they know doesn't work.</para>
<para>We heard about the Aboriginal peak organisations in the Northern Territory in particular who made submissions on this. They asked: how many times do we have to ask government to listen to our voices? This has been going on since income management was introduced in 2007 as part of the Northern Territory intervention, which was when they first said no. It was the first time they said no to income management support. It's now a different card in a different colour, but it's all for the same purpose: to control their lives. That is what they told the government. 'We are not guinea pigs,' they told the government. Even the Central Land Council calls on the government to end all forms of compulsory income management, and I could go on and on and on in this debate about how many times First Nations people have told governments in this place to stop imposing these racist policies that are driven by removing our basic human rights in this country.</para>
<para>Income management doesn't help people. It doesn't do what you say it does. It is in fact a punishment. It is a punishment for being on welfare payments, which are the legacy of colonisation in this country. Welfare was the legacy piece of the 1967 referendum, and here we are again looking at another referendum with another government telling us that they're going to listen to our voices. I don't think so. Financial freedom is what is needed—empowerment, giving people the tools to learn about financial responsibility—not prohibiting people from being able to purchase the essential items they need, such as food, from places where they will actually save money, not places that are making money for the big corporations in this country, so going to markets and things like that. It doesn't restrict drugs and alcohol, as you've heard the Opposition suggest. It perpetuates harm and allows the black market in these communities to thrive. I'll give an example from my home state of Western Australia: $400 for a bottle of vodka, and they play cards for it for two days. You want to talk about how you manage black people's income. You're not stopping any of that. That's a farce that's in this bubble, unfortunately.</para>
<para>The Greens have an amendment to this bill that will introduce a sunset clause. It will restrict the ministerial power and enable those at risk of harm to exit this framework. This amendment will improve the worst elements of this bill but, let's be clear, we, over here at the Australian Greens, do not support compulsory income management. We implore this government to keep their promises to the Australian people, to First Nations people in this country, to make income management voluntary.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank senators who have contributed to this important debate on the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023. The government has listened closely to the contributions of all senators and I'm pleased to be able to address some of those contributions.</para>
<para>The bill is the next step in the Albanese government's election commitment to abolish the punitive cashless debit card regime and take on the reform of income management. It builds on changes made by the Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Repeal of Cashless Debit Card and Other Measures) Act 2022, which established the enhanced income management program and repealed the cashless debit card program.</para>
<para>This bill ensures that no new participants are issued with the out-of-date BasicsCard and, instead, that they have access to a significantly updated technology platform and modern card, the SmartCard, capable of supporting a range of mainstream banking functions, including tap and go payments, online shopping and BPAY bill payments. Importantly, the SmartCard is delivered by Services Australia and has a PIN for added protection. The bill will also give people subject to the income management regime the choice to move to enhanced income management from the commencement date, thereby allowing them to access the BasicsCard bank account and superior SmartCard.</para>
<para>Our absolute priority is to ensure participants are supported and given access to a modern financial experience and do not experience the stigma of outdated financial technology. With the passage of this bill we will take another step towards reforming income management in Australia, and more than 25,000 Australians will have access to enhanced income management and the SmartCard, increasing choice over where and how they can spend their money. But, we know there is still a way to go.</para>
<para>I'd like to thank the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for its report into this bill, acknowledge the contributions of all those who made submissions or appeared at the hearing and note the various recommendations provided. The committee report recommended that the government consider whether a review period is practicable and facilitative to the policy intent. The Albanese government made a commitment to continue consulting with and listening to a wide range of stakeholders, including First Nations leaders, women's groups, service providers, communities and people receiving welfare payments.</para>
<para>This consultation is underway and is the most appropriate way to review and reform the income management program, which has been in place since 2007. For some people on income management, this program has been the norm for them during their entire adult life. The government takes this matter seriously and we worked with individuals and communities on what services and supports are needed, and what the future of income management looks like.</para>
<para>I also thank the Australian Greens and Senator Thorpe for their input into the report and ongoing interest in this program. Both have recommended or raised the inclusion of a sunset clause, limitation on ministerial powers, exit provisions or the abolition of all compulsory income management. The government notes these recommendations and considers that those changes are not appropriate to be made through this bill. However, I want to be clear about our position. The current consultation underway in regard to the future of income management is listening to individuals and communities about these very issues. Decisions we take about this matter will be informed by those consultations. Anything which affects those consultations runs the risk of undermining the integrity of that process and undermining the trust of communities. The government will not make decisions or support amendments that would see vulnerable people transitioned off this program without much-needed support.</para>
<para>Senators in this debate have raised concerns about the powers of the minister to make instruments that will operationalise the enhanced income management program. The bill does not extend the powers to the minister, it only replicates what is already in the existing income management legislation. By replicating the measures and ministerial powers already existing for income management, support remains in place for communities while consultation on the future of the program, more broadly, continues. Limiting or removing the flexibility that the ministerial powers provide would limit the government's ability to respond to the feedback gathered through consultation and to provide real and tailored outcomes.</para>
<para>Senator Thorpe's dissenting report also recommended a substantial investment in social services.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister. The time for this matter has expired. We're at 11.15, the hard marker.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>21</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>21</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>21</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>21</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the seventh report of 2023 of the Selection of Bills Committee. I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 7 OF 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">22 June 2023</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">MEMBERS OF THE COMM ITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Anne Urquhart (Government Whip, Chair)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Wendy Askew (Opposition Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Ross Cadell (The Nationals Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Pauline Hanson (Pauline Hanson's One Nation Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Nick McKim (Australian Greens Whip)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Ralph Babet</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator the Hon. Anthony Chisholm</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator the Hon. Katy Gallagher</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Matt O'Sullivan</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator David Pocock</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Paul Scarr</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Lidia Thorpe</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator Tammy Tyrrell</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Secretary: Tim Bryant 02 6277 3020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 21 June 2023 at 7.16 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee recommends that—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the <inline font-style="italic">provisions </inline>of the Biosecurity Amendment (Advanced Compliance Measures) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 27 July 2023 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the <inline font-style="italic">provisions </inline>of the Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Foreign Bribery) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">ref</inline><inline font-style="italic">erred immediately </inline>to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 26 July 2023 (see appendix 2 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the <inline font-style="italic">provision</inline><inline font-style="italic">s </inline>of the Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Amendment (Using New Technologies to Fight Climate Change) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 27 July 2023 (see appendix 3 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the Greenhouse and Energy Minimum Standards Amendment (Administrative Changes) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 27 July 2023 (see appendix 4 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the <inline font-style="italic">provisions </inline>of the Migration Amendment (Strengthening Employer Compliance) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 31 August 2023 (see appendix 5 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) the provisions of the Public Service Amendment Bill 2023 be referred immediately to the Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 30 August 2023 (see appendix 6 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Strengthening the Safety Net) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediatel</inline><inline font-style="italic">y </inline>to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 24 July 2023 (see appendix 7 for a statement of reasons for referral);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) the <inline font-style="italic">provisions </inline>of the Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred i</inline><inline font-style="italic">mmediately </inline>to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 24 July 2023 (see appendix 8 for a statement of reasons for referral); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) contingent upon introduction in the House of Representatives, the <inline font-style="italic">provisions </inline>of the Treasury Laws Amendment (Making Multinationals Pay Their Fair Share— Integrity and Transparency) Bill 2023 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately </inline>to the Economics Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 31 August 2023 (see appendix 9 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee recommends that the following bills <inline font-style="italic">not </inline>be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Measures No. 3) Bill 2023</list>
<list>United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Bill 2022.</list>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Broadcasting Services Amendment (Ban on Gambling Advertisements During Live Sport) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Classification (Publications, Films and Computer Games) Amendment (Industry Self-Classification and Other Measures) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Criminal Code Amendment (Inciting Illegal Disruptive Activities) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Electoral Legislation Amendment (Lowering the Voting Age) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Amendment (Regional Forest Agreements) Bill 2020</list>
<list>Fair Work Amendment (Right to Disconnect) Bill 2023 [No. 2]</list>
<list>Freeze on Rent and Rate Increases Bill 2023</list>
<list>Inspector-General of Live Animal Exports Amendment (Animal Welfare) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Intellectual Property Laws Amendment (Regulator Performance) Bill 2023</list>
<list>Intelligence Services Legislation Amendment Bill 2023</list>
<list>International Organisations (Privileges and Immunities) Amendment Bill 2023</list>
<list>National Occupational Respiratory Disease Registry Bill 2023</list>
<quote><para class="block">National Occupational Respiratory Disease Registry (Consequential Amendments) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<list>Productivity Commission Amendment (Electricity Reporting) Bill 2023.</list>
<quote><para class="block">5. The committee considered the following bill but was unable to reach agreement:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Capital Territory (Self-Government) Amendment Bill 2023.</list>
<quote><para class="block">(Anne Urquhart)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22 June 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Biosecurity Amendment (Advanced Compliance Measures) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Unclear as to degree of consultation (awaiting response from Government) Although sold as being administrative, EM is 90 pages long</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Biosecurity stakeholders (e.g. Invasive Species Council, trade stakeholders, farmers groups)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to whi ch bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">RRAT</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On papers?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">31 July</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nik McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Crimes Legislation Amendment (Combatting Foreign Bribery) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Complicated issue</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sector, Groups Individuals that are affected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June-July</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">26 July 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">( signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Wendy Askew</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment Protection (Sea Dumping) Amendment (Using New Technologies to Fight Climate Change) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know nothing about this bill prior to be tabled tomorrow</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Ocean stakeholders (e.g. AMCS, Greenpeace, Sea Shepherd)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">August</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 September</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nick McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 4</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">P roposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Greenhouse and Energy Minimum Standards Amendment (Administrative Changes) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Complicated issue</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sector, Groups Individuals that are affected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June -August</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">27 July 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Wendy Askew</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 5</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration Amendment (Strengthening Employer Compliance) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">provisions of the Bill will provide additional powers to the ABF, and without proper protections, will have the potential to further victimise vulnerable, exploited migrants.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">migration, human rights, and workplace relations experts, academics, and advocates.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">on the papers</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date: 31 August 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nick McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 6</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public Service Amendment Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Complicated issue</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sector, Groups Individuals that are affected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be re ferred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June -August</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">30 August 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Wendy Askew</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public Service Amendment Bill</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<list>This is an issue of significant public importance and interest.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Unions, academics and any other relevant stakeholders</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<list>Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<list>4 August</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<list>30 August</list>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nick McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Social Services and Other Legislation Amendment (Strengthening the Safety Net) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Parliamentary scrutiny of a bill combining several Budget measures</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Council of Social Services</list>
<list>Antipoverty Centre</list>
<list>Council of Single Mothers and their Children</list>
<list>Other social services organisations</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Week commencing 10th July (or before/ after)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">24 July 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Nick McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 8</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a commjttee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury Laws Amendment (2023 Law Improvement Package No. 1) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Complicated issue</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Sector, Groups Individuals that are affected.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">June -July</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">24 July 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Wendy Askew</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (Making Multinationals Pay Their Fair Share) Bill 2023</list>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<list>To understand the revenue and economic implications.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Academics</list>
<list>Civil society</list>
<list>Business</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<list>Economics Legislation Committee</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<list>July/ August 2023</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<list>31 August 2023</list>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senator McKim</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury Laws Amendment (Making Multinationals Pay their Fair Share: Integrity and Transparency) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referra1/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill implements elements of the government's Multinational Tax Integrity package, announced in the October 2022-23 Budget, comprising measures to improve tax transparency of corporates, and tax integrity measures to strengthen the thin capitalisation rules to address the use of excessive debt deductions. This will ensure multinationals pay their fair share of tax.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The measures in the Bill reflect several rounds of public consultation to balance this policy intent while continuing to support genuine commercial activity and being mindful of compliance costs. It will ensure that debt deductions are linked to genuine economic activity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments to the thin capitalisation rules are significant, introducing earnings-based interest limitation rules for general class investors to replace the existing asset-based rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments are in line with the OECD's best practice framework and similar amendments have already been adopted by most OECD countries including the United Kingdom, United States, and most of the EU.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments also introduce a new third-party debt test which is expected to be used by the property and infrastructure sectors, as they generally have low earnings in the construction phase of a project. The test means that these entities can continue to deduct genuine third-party debt, without an earnings limitation, subject to eligibility rules.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treasury has worked constructively with affected stakeholders to address unintended consequences identified through two separate rounds of consultation on the policy design and the exposure draft legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, the changes are highly complex, and as a tax integrity measure, there are sensitivities, and questions of interpretation that will benefit from the scrutiny and explication possible in the committee process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A committee process will ensure that the Bill considered in parliament has had the benefit of an open and thorough conversation on the full text of the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ASX, Corporate Tax Association, The Tax Institute, Law Council of Australia, Dr Kerrie Sadiq, Tax Justice Network, CICTAR, Property Council of Australia, Business Council of Australia, Australian Shareholders Association, Chartered Accountants, Department of the Treasury, ATO.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Economics Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">throughout July/ mid August</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">before August 31</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(signed)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Anne Urquhart</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the following amendment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "and the Australian Capital Territory (Self-Government) Amendment Bill 2023 not be referred to a committee".</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Gallagher to the motion for adoption of the Selection of Bills Committee report be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:20]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the following amendment to the motion:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add: "and, in respect of the Australian Capital Territory (Self-Government)Amendment Bill 2023 the bill be referred immediately to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 9 August 2023".</para></quote>
<para>Honourable senators inte rjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ayres</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is terrific!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, order! I am putting the question on a motion. I expect there to be silence. The question is the amendment motion, as moved by Senator Ruston, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:28]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>21</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Original question, as amended, agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I table a non-conforming petition calling on the Labor government to reverse its decision to phase out live exports.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw notices of motion Nos 258 and 259 standing in the name of Senator Shoebridge for today.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) government business orders of the day as shown on today's <inline font-style="italic">Order of Business</inline> be considered from 12.15 pm; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) government business then be called on and considered till not later than 1.30 pm.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>29</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>29</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Community Affairs References Committee for inquiry and report, with an interim report to be presented by</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">23 September 2023 to aid in the deliberations of the National Cabinet on renters'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">rights, and a final report to be presented by 28 November 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The worsening rental crisis in Australia, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the experience of renters and people seeking rental housing,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rising rents and rental affordability;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) actions that can be taken by governments to reduce rents or limit rent rises;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) improvements to renters' rights, including rent stabilisation, length of leases</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">and no grounds evictions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) factors impacting supply and demand of affordable rentals;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) international experience of policies that effectively support renters;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(g) the impact of government programs on the rental sector; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(h) any other related matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting this motion, as it is clearly another attempt to distract, delay and defer real action on housing. The Greens want to ask the community affairs committee to investigate factors impacting supply and demand of affordable rentals. One factor is their teaming up with the coalition to reject a debate on a new social and affordable rental housing fund. The answer to the rental stress is a sustained boost to the supply of affordable homes to rent. That's what the government is trying to do through the HAFF, and exactly what these people walked into this place and rejected. We are committed to delivering real action for Australia's renters through delivering more homes, and we will not play into another Greens attempt to distract, delay and defer real action on the housing needs of Australians.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that business of the Senate motion No. 1, standing in the name of Senator Rice, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:38]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>38</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>31</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure and Other Measures) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1384" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure and Other Measures) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>31</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Migration Act 1958, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>31</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Introduction</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I rise to commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments proposed in the Migration Amendment (Overseas Organ Transplant Disclosure and Other Measures) Bill 2023 are sensible and non-controversial, but they are also meaningful improvements that will advance Australia's mission to uphold and enhance human rights -both here and around the world.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Organ trafficking is a uniquely appalling violation of the dignity of the individual, defined by the unethical removal, transfer, or commercialisation of human organs for transplantation outside legal frameworks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The matter of organ harvesting and trafficking has been the subject of discussion and inquiry over many years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Features of this Bill derive primarily from inquiry and recommendations made by the Human Rights sub-committee of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade report <inline font-style="italic">Compassion, Not Commerce: An inquiry into Human Organ Trafficking and Organ Transplant Tourism</inline>, which wastabled in November 2018.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This report recommended a mandatory reporting scheme, where medical professionals would carry an obligation to report any knowledge or suspicion of a commercial transplant taking place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Balancing the need to report data that can be used to counter organ trafficking practices internationally with the need to preserve an individual's right to reasonable medical privacy, this Bill instead proposes the mandatory reporting of overseas transplants mechanism be undertaken via the incoming passenger card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">What the Bill does</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments provided for in this Bill:</para></quote>
<list>add a requirement to Australia's migration framework that persons entering Australia must disclose if they have received an organ transplant outside Australia within the last five years.</list>
<quote><para class="block">If this is the case, the individual will be required to disclose the name of the medical facility where that transplant occurred, and the town and/or city and country of the facility.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This information is to be disclosed by persons entering Australia via the incoming passenger card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The resulting data will then be made available to the responsible Minister, who will be required to table an annual report in the Parliament detailing:</para></quote>
<list>the number of times persons entering Australia have answered that they received an organ transplant outside Australia within the last five years; and</list>
<list>the town and/or city and country where the organ transplant took place.</list>
<list>amend the <inline font-style="italic">Migration Act 1958</inline> to provide that a person does not pass the character test if the responsible Minister reasonably suspects that the person has been, or is involved in, an offence involving trafficking in human organs.</list>
<quote><para class="block">These measures are purposefully designed to assist in global efforts to prevent organ trafficking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Australia's approach thus far</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In 2005, the Australian Government criminalised organ trafficking under the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code Act 1995</inline> and, in 2013, strengthened the Commonwealth Criminal Code by introducing four stand-alone organ trafficking offences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's organ trafficking offences criminalise the movement of people to, from, or within Australia for the unlawful removal of their organs. An organ does not have to be removed for an organ trafficking offence to be committed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, Australia has several non-legislative measures in place to complement the legal framework and ensure a holistic approach to address organ trafficking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is set to conduct training programs for officials in law enforcement, immigration compliance, the Fair Work Ombudsman, and diplomatic and consular position, to increase awareness of the indicators of organ trafficking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commonwealth Criminal Code also stipulates that organ transplant tourism constitutes an organ trafficking offence if a person organised or facilitated the transport, or proposed transport, of the donor to, from or within Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The incidence of organ harvesting and trafficking</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When organs are provided to recipients through illicit means of coercion or compulsion, the result is a tragedy in which one human life is prized more than another.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This represents an egregious attack on the foundations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the commitment contained within it that "all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Every time a person is pressured to sell an organ to another, or when a prisoner of conscience is executed and their organs harvested, this principle of universal human equality and dignity is transgressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the clandestine nature of both harvesting and trafficking makes the trade in human organs difficult to quantify.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, concerns about the occurrence and scale of organ trafficking are justified given the significant imbalance between the number of patients globally who are awaiting an organ transplant and the limited availability of consensual, legal organs for transplantation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Several recent events have made the need for remedies to this international crime more urgent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In September 2021, the Australian Government responded to the <inline font-style="italic">Compassion, Not Commerce: An inquiry into Human Org</inline><inline font-style="italic">an Trafficking or Organ Transplant Tourism </inline>report, describing the issue of organ trafficking and related crimes as "a complex, evolving problem, encompassing many countries".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This evidence—procured from a variety of global bodies, governments, and NGOs—coincides with increasing reports and examples of organ trafficking and harvesting across the world, with concern the scale of the activity is more widespread that previously imagined.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, the Bill fulfils a number of recommendations of the <inline font-style="italic">Compassion, Not Commerce: An inquiry into Human Organ Trafficking or Organ Transplant Tourism</inline> report, including:</para></quote>
<list>Recommendation 2; the need to monitor transplantation practices of other countries with regard to consistency with human rights obligations, including with regard to the use of the organs of executed prisoners; and</list>
<list>Recommendation 4; the need for suitably anonymised data regarding the participation by Australians in overseas commercial transplants.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Of relevance here is recent evidence provided to the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade by the Australian Government in response to questions raised about the Government's position on revelations regarding organ harvesting in our region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government's evidence cited the June 2021 report of the 12 UN Special Procedures experts, which identified "credible evidence" that ethnic, linguistic or religious minorities may be subject to organ harvesting in our region.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, Deakin University has reported that the number of people waiting for an organ transplant globally outweighs the number of organs available for ethical and legal transplantations. This deficit is estimated to have resulted in a black market of more than 10,000 unethical transplants a year, or more than one every hour.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Consistency with international efforts</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments contained in the Bill compliment efforts taken internationally to respond to the growing prevalence of organ trafficking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In May 2021, the United Kingdom House of Lords amended the <inline font-style="italic">Human Tissue Act 2004</inline> following passage of the <inline font-style="italic">Organ Tourism and Cadavers on Display Bill [HL]</inline> and it awaits debate in the House of Commons.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill prohibits citizens and residents of the United Kingdom from travelling internationally to receive material for a transplant that was obtained without the consent of a donor and a donor's next of kin.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Organ Tourism and Cadavers on Display Bill [HL]</inline> is aimed at preventing the rising prevalence of organ tourism, characterised as the practice by which citizens of a country that has a rigorous legal framework preventing unethical transplant travel to countries with weaker legal frameworks to receive an illicitly purchased organ.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In December 2022, the Canadian Parliament amended the <inline font-style="italic">Criminal Code</inline> and the <inline font-style="italic">Immigration and Refugee Protection Act</inline> to create new offences in relation to trafficking in human organs and to provide that a permanent resident or foreign national is inadmissible to Canada if the appropriate Minister is of the opinion that they have engaged in certain activities relating to trafficking in human organs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The penalty for breach of the Canadian organ trafficking offences is 14 years in prison.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. While there are limitations regarding the extent to which we, as Australians, can prevent human rights violations abroad, Australia maintains a responsibility to do everything within our Parliamentary mechanisms to uphold the inviolability of universal human dignity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is not enough to be a signatory to international conventions such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, or the Genocide Convention, without doing what we can to ensure the tenets of these conventions are upheld globally. This amendment is a step forward toward that eternal and noble goal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Conclusion</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments contained in this Bill are designed to be a practical and least intrusive tool to support global efforts in combatting organ trafficking.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They should be seen as sensible and timely initiatives that add to the suite of other measures that have already been incorporated in the law and support other non-legislative measures being used by Australian authorities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>33</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Perth Mint and Commonwealth Regulatory Compliance Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>33</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Appointment</title>
            <page.no>33</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That a select committee, to be known as the Select Committee on the Perth Mint and Commonwealth regulatory compliance, be established to inquire into and report on the corporate and regulatory compliance of Gold Corporation and its trading entity, the Perth Mint, with Commonwealth legislation, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) current and historical compliance with Australian anti-money laundering regulatory requirements, specifically:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Act 2006</inline>,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Financing Rules Instrument 2007 (No. 1),</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the <inline font-style="italic">Privacy Act 1988</inline>,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the <inline font-style="italic">National Measurement Act 1960</inline>,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the National Trade Measurement Regulations 2009, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(vi) any other associated Commonwealth laws and regulations or instruments;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) events that led to the Australian Transaction Reports and Analysis Centre ordering the appointment of an external auditor to Gold Corporation under subsection 162(2) of the <inline font-style="italic">Anti-Money Laundering and Counter-Terrorism Fin</inline><inline font-style="italic">ancing Act 2006</inline>;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) events that led to the London Bullion Market Association initiating an</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'Incident Review Process';</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) matters concerning the corporate and statutory governance of Gold Corporation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) the extent to which Australia's reputation as a precious metals producer, refiner and exporter may have been damaged by Gold Corporation's failure to comply with all necessary corporate and regulatory requirements; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) any other related matters.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That the committee present its final report by 13 December 2023.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) That the committee consist of 7 senators, as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) three nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) two nominated by the Leader of the Government in the Senate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) one nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens in the Senate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) one nominated by minority party or independent senators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) That:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) participating members may be appointed to the committee on the nomination of the Leader of the Government in the Senate, the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate or any minority party or independent senator;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) participating members may participate in hearings of evidence and deliberations of the committee, and have all the rights of members of the committee, but may not vote on any questions before the committee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) a participating member shall be taken to be a member of a committee for the purpose of forming a quorum of the committee if a majority of members of the committee is not present.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) That 3 members of the committee constitute a quorum of the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) That the committee may proceed to the dispatch of business notwithstanding that all members have not been duly nominated and appointed and notwithstanding any vacancy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) That the committee elect as chair a member nominated by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate and, as deputy chair, a member nominated by the Leader of the Australian Greens in the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) That the deputy chair shall act as chair when the chair is absent from a meeting of the committee or the position of chair is temporarily vacant.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) That the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, may appoint another member of the committee to act as chair during the temporary absence of both the chair and deputy chair at a meeting of the committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) That, in the event of an equally divided vote, the chair, or the deputy chair when acting as chair, have a casting vote.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) That the committee have power to appoint subcommittees consisting of 2 or more of its members, and to refer to any such subcommittee any of the matters which the committee is empowered to consider.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) That the committee and any subcommittee have power to send for and examine persons and documents, to move from place to place, to sit in public or in private, notwithstanding any prorogation of the Parliament or dissolution of the House of Representatives, and have leave to report from time to time its proceedings and the evidence taken and such interim recommendations as it may deem fit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) That the committee be provided with all necessary staff, facilities and resources and be empowered to appoint persons with specialist knowledge for the purposes of the committee with the approval of the President.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) That the committee be empowered to print from day to day such papers and evidence as may be ordered by it, and a daily Hansard be published of such proceedings as take place in public.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be opposing this motion. We take matters of corporate and regulatory compliance very seriously, which is why AUSTRAC and a leading expert are doing an independent audit of the Perth Mint's compliance with anti-money-laundering and counterterrorism finance laws. It's also why the WA government is investing $34 million to overhaul the Perth Mint's internal systems and procedures and has commissioned a comprehensive strategic review into the Perth Mint's future. AUSTRAC and the WA government are taking these matters seriously, as we are. The senator knows this motion will not only duplicate this effort but also risks compromising these independent investigations. We do not support a motion that is driven by state politics that would disrespect and undermine due process.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 262, standing in the name of Senator Dean Smith, be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:48]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>39</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>22</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>35</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Senate Estimates</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Leader of the Government in the Senate, by no later than midday on 7 August 2023, for each question on notice from the 2022-23 supplementary Budget estimates that was unanswered, as at 1 April 2023:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the date the responsible minister or their office first received a draft answer in relation to the question; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the date when the final answer was provided to the relevant legislation committee.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Department of Defence</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That the Senate notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) order for production of documents no. 200 agreed by the Senate on 27 March 2023, relating to the 22 March 2023 Jervis Bay incident involving an MRH-90 helicopter, has not been complied with; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the order included that information identifying personnel and information in relation to training techniques may be appropriately redacted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, by no later than midday on 1 November 2023, all documents required by the order of 27 March 2023 and information in relation to tactics, techniques and procedures may be redacted.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Disability Insurance Agency</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>35</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for the production of documents no. 253 relating to the National Disability Insurance Scheme Financial Sustainability Framework, made on 19 June 2023, has not been complied with, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Treasurer, in his response to the order, made a claim of public interest immunity on the basis that it would be detrimental to relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claim made by the Treasurer, noting that the public interest in disclosing the document outweighs any potential prejudice to relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires the Minister representing the Treasurer to comply with the order by no later than 4.30 pm on 22 June 2023.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support this motion. The government has complied with the Senate order. The public interest immunity claim made in respect of the materials sought was made in accordance with longstanding and accepted Senate practice.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Steele-John be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:57]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>42</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>20</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                  <name>Wong, P.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>36</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, by no later than 9.30 am on Thursday, 29 June 2023, any memorandums of understanding, protocols or other agreements between the Australian Government and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia entered into between 1 January 2012 and 21 June 2023 which include reference to the trade in livestock by sea.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government is not supporting this OPD. MOUs are documents developed between governments and typically agreed at ministerial level. Making government-to-government agreements public has the potential to cause damage to the international relations of the Commonwealth. This is about trust, and releasing such documents has the potential to undermine the government's relationship with other countries. Moreover, it would potentially prejudice the flow of confidential information between the Commonwealth and other countries because other countries would not have the confidence that the arrangements entered into with the Commonwealth would remain confidential.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that general business notice of motion No. 265, standing in the name of Senator Faruqi, be agreed to.</para>
<para>The Senate divided. [12:06]</para>
<para>(The President—Senator Lines)</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:06]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Administrative Appeals Tribunal</title>
          <page.no>37</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>37</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Cash, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) order for production of documents no. 247 agreed by the Senate on 15 June 2023, requiring the Minister representing the Attorney- General to table briefing notes, file notes and any written communication in relation to the resignation of the President of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT), and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Minister representing the Attorney-General, in his response to the order, made a claim of public interest immunity on the basis that frankness of future communications between statutory office holders and ministers would be impacted by the disclosure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) rejects the public interest immunity claim made by the Minister representing the Attorney-General, noting that frankness of future communications between statutory office holders and ministers is not an area for public interest immunity claims that is accepted by the Senate;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) requires the Minister representing the Attorney-General to comply with the order by no later than midday on 28 June 2023; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) requires the Minister representing the Attorney-General to attend the chamber at the conclusion of formal business on Thursday, 22 June 2023 to provide an explanation of no more than 10 minutes concerning the resignation of the President of the AAT, the Honourable Fiona Meagher, and the knowledge of the Attorney-General, or his office, of the circumstances leading up to her resignation, and:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) any senator may move to take note of the explanation required by paragraph (d), and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) any motion under paragraph (d)(i) may be debated for no longer than 30 minutes, shall have precedence over all other business until determined, and senators may speak to the motion for not more than 5 minutes each.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move the amendment to this motion that has been circulated in the chamber:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Paragraph (d), omit "on Thursday, 22 June 2023", substitute "on the next day of sitting".</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have received a letter requesting changes in the membership of a committee.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That Senator Shoebridge replace Senator Steele-John on the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee for the committee's inquiry into the performance of the Department of Defence, and that Senator Steele-John be appointed as a participating member.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (2022 Measures No. 4) Bill 2022</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6946" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (2022 Measures No. 4) Bill 2022</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Returned from the House of Representatives</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reference</title>
            <page.no>38</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am in continuation on this motion. Last night, I was sharing with the Senate some of the thoughts of my stepson, Jasper Lees, who is a young trans man—a fantastic young man. What I actually want to say—and I'm glad that Senator Hanson and Senator Roberts are here—is that I found their contributions vile and disgusting. The reason I found their contributions vile and disgusting is that they are deliberately trying to set up a situation where people can come in under parliamentary privilege and have their submissions, which would actively harm trans people, published. What trans people in this country don't need is for bigots and fascists who are attempting to erase them from the face of the earth to be able to make submissions to this inquiry and have their hatred and bile covered by parliamentary privilege. So, of course, the Greens won't be supporting this motion.</para>
<para>I also want to make it clear that my journey over a number of years with my stepson, Jasper, has allowed me to understand the very human and personal impact on a group of people who are not all the same and who have the full range of human feelings and human emotions as any other group of people but who are impacted so negatively and so profoundly because they are being used as political footballs by the far right in this country, who have decided that they are going to open up this front in their never-ending culture wars and that it doesn't matter how much they harm people or hurt people or how many people they drive to death and misery as a result. That's what we are dealing with here, and that is why the Greens are so staunchly opposed to this motion.</para>
<para>We will stand with trans folk. We will stand with trans men. We will stand with trans women. We will stand with all non-binary folk because trans rights are human rights. It is as simple as that. We will not stand for the fascism that is emerging around this issue, and we will not stand for them being erased off the face of this earth, as many people want. You only have to go into the cesspit that is some parts of various social media platforms to see the hatred and the bile that are being posted by far-right bigots and transphobes. We stand proudly with trans folk. We always have and we always will, and that is why we are so absolutely determined that this motion not be supported.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have now hit a hard marker. It's 12.15, so I'm going to move to government business.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>39</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7002" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to formally put on record the position of the coalition on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023. I personally have particular affection for the defence forces, having been a reservist, and I know the high and the lows and the disappointment and the pride that comes with wearing the uniform. I also know and understand the difficulties that some of our veterans have had in managing their way through veterans' affairs and the Department of Veterans' Affairs.</para>
<para>The veterans community is a highly valued but often forgotten group in this nation. In recent years, we've seen an increasing impact on those who have served our country and face ever more new traumas in doing their duty. That's why when we were in government the Liberals and Nationals invested more than $11 billion each year to support around 340,000 veterans and their families, and I am pleased that the current government is continuing this investment.</para>
<para>This bill makes technical amendments to four sections of the veterans' affairs legislation to clarify, improve or streamline its delivery. While the amendments are minor and, in effect, tidy up several piece of legislation, they will make our veterans' interactions with the department a more transparent and hopefully a more positive experience. That's why the coalition will be supporting this legislation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to acknowledge and recognise Senator Davey's contribution to the debate on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023 and acknowledge the continued tradition of bipartisan support for Australian veterans. I thank any other senators who have spoken in this debate, and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>39</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures No. 2) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7037" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures No. 2) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>40</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Like the previous amendment bill, the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures No. 2) Bill 2023 is supported by the coalition. It covers issues in four schedules, all very important in their impact on our veterans communities.</para>
<para>The first section aligns the entitlements for firefighters employed by the Australian Defence Force with those for civil firefighters in relation to oesophageal cancer and other cancers, and it moves the qualifying period for entitlements from 25 years down to 15 years. We know that civilian firefighters have had health complications often related to the use of firefighting foam and other chemicals, and this will ensure that the same protections they get are available to ADF firefighters.</para>
<para>Secondly, the payments from the specified Commonwealth, state and territory employment programs will be exempt from a veteran's income in respect of means testing. This brings veterans in line with other social security requirements and makes sure that, if a veteran chooses to seek employment after their service, it doesn't unduly impact them.</para>
<para>Thirdly, the bill gives discretion to provide rent assistance beyond 26 weeks for veterans who are overseas and who, for unforeseen circumstances, cannot return home when they intended to. Fourthly, and very importantly, the bill allows grandparents to work in loco parentis to support a child of a Defence Force member.</para>
<para>While some of these amendments seem minor, they will have very important benefits for our veterans. We in the coalition support this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens support the Veterans’ Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures No. 2) Bill 2023. I will just deal briefly with the four schedules. Schedule 1 is the firefighter's alignment provision. It will amend the Safety, Rehabilitation and Compensation Act to reduce the qualifying period of employment for Australian Defence Force firefighters in relation to compensation for primary site oesophageal cancer from 25 years to 15 years. It will also change the requirement for firefighting to have been a 'substantial proportion' of their duties to a 'not insubstantial proportion of their duties'. This aligns the entitlements of defence firefighters with the entitlements of other firefighters under Commonwealth legislation. I want to note the consistent work of my colleague Adam Bandt for Victorian firefighters that led to this presumption, which I'm glad to see has also found its way into the Commonwealth more broadly. This, the Greens hope, will finally bring that last tranche of Commonwealth firefighters—being ADF firefighters—within the presumption and provide them the protection they deserve for the work they've done for the people of Australia.</para>
<para>Schedule 2 is the employment program. That amends the VEA to allow for a determination to be made so that amounts received from specified Commonwealth, state and territory programs are not considered as income for income support means-testing purposes. There are some technical amendments to the Social Security Act to enable that to happen. This is an important provision which will allow for veterans not to have their Commonwealth payments docked because they are receiving often very modest payments at a state level. We support that amendment.</para>
<para>Schedule 3 of the bill amends the VEA to include a permanent discretion to provide Commonwealth rental assistance beyond 26 weeks for eligible recipients who are temporarily absent from Australia and unable to return due to what's called a prescribed event occurring. This is one of those provisions that will stop veterans returning and potentially being homeless. We support the amendment, and we appreciate the minister bringing it forward.</para>
<para>Schedule 4 amends the VEA, DRCA and the MRCA to extend eligibility for the defence, veterans and families acute support package to grandparents who are full-time carers of the children of a veteran. Existing provisions within these acts can be utilised for some grandparents, and this bill adds additional provisions to ensure that further grandparents may be eligible and have access to the acute support package. I note that this is implementing a commitment made in the budget where the government committed to providing half a million dollars over four years, commencing next financial year, and then $0.2 million per year ongoing to expand the support under the defence, veterans and families acute support package to grandparents who are full-time carers of grandchildren who are children of a veteran. This extension of benefits is a matter that my office advocated to the minister on. We heard from a number of veterans that often the only real care they can get is from their parents looking after their kids, picking them up after school and being there when they can't be there, often because the veterans are attending medical appointments or otherwise are unable to attend. Without these amendments there would be no way of fairly compensating those grandparents for often quite substantial travel costs and other out-of-pocket expenses. I want to put on record our gratitude to the minister for listening to calls from veterans and those submissions from our office, and actually responding. While we think that the numbers could be bigger, and we hope that, as the benefits of this small extension become apparent, those numbers can grow over time, it is an example of the minister listening and responding to calls from veterans and their supporters in this place.</para>
<para>Finally, while it is not specifically attached to this bill, I do want to note the good work of Wounded Heroes Australia and the positive engagement they have had with the minister. We made two separate submissions to the minister for that really important organisation to be funded, and the good news is that it is in the early stages of moving through a positive funding result with the department. Again, I commend the minister for good-faith engagement. For those who don't know, Wounded Heroes Australia provides essential short-term cash payments for veterans who are homeless or facing homelessness, the $500 that means that they can keep their rental rather than losing their home, the $300 or $400 that means they and their families can stay in a motel for a couple of nights so that they're not thrown out on the streets. Wounded Heroes Australia has been self-funded and doing all of this work up to now. It is an extraordinary performance, and, with a bit of additional government support to get them security going forward, we really hope that the grant process comes through, and that Wounded Heroes Australia get the support to do the work they do for veterans.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First, I would like to thank Senator Davey and Senator Shoebridge for their contributions to the debate on the Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures No. 2) Bill 2023. I again acknowledge the continuing tradition of bipartisan support for veterans, and I thank the Senate for this important amendment bill. This legislation will enhance the support and services available to veterans and their families. Supporting veterans and their families is one of our key priorities, and that is why the recent budget had such a significant focus on rebuilding the Department of Veterans' Affairs in order to ensure the foundations are laid to improve access to services and support for veterans and their families. This bill also enhances support for ADF firefighters who served prior to 2004. It also extends the treatment of certain income from specified employment programs as exempt income for income support means testing, and it extends the availability of rent assistance for veterans and their partners who are overseas but unable to return to Australia due to exceptional circumstances, such as those experienced in recent years with COVID-19. Additionally, this bill expands eligibility for access to services under the Defence, Veterans' and Families' Acute Support Package, which is available to families in crisis. We expanded this package through legislation last year to a much wider cohort of veterans and families. Now it will also pick up grandcarer families, a gap we identified and funded in the May budget.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government is committed to establishing the strongest foundations to support our service personnel, veterans and their families, and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTI</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>NG DEPUTY PRESIDENT ( Senator Allman-Payne ) (): As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>BROWN (—) (): I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6989" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Income Management Reform) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>41</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was desperately trying to do before the last hard marker, I'll continue the second reading summing up speech. Senator Thorpe's dissenting report also recommended a substantive investment in social services and wraparound supports in communities. In last year's budget a significant investment of $158 million was committed for support services in former cashless debit card and income management communities, including for the Northern Territory, where the majority of income management participants are located. That included $7½ million over 2022-23 to 2023-24 to deliver mobile and internet services and digital literacy support in regional and remote Northern Territory communities, including wi-fi connectivity for four Alice Springs town camps. It also included $10 million provided in 2023-24 for other support services in the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>We're working in genuine partnership with communities to co-design a range of targeted services that benefit individuals, families and the broader community. This includes initiatives supporting financial literacy and money management, programs that support pathways to greater economic independence and targeted support to address addiction to alcohol and other drugs.</para>
<para>I also note the recommendation of the dissenting report by the coalition senators, which called for the government to publish key metrics of social harm in relation to communities where the cashless debit card formerly operated. I remind those senators that this bill doesn't deal in any way, shape or form with the cashless debit card or the communities in which it used to operate. However, in response to that recommendation the government does not support it. It is a waste of Commonwealth government resources and a shameful attempt to force the government's attention away from doing what actually works and funding the services which communities have actually said they wanted to see on the ground.</para>
<para>I remind senators that it has been the Albanese government which has extended the existing support services in former cashless debit card communities and has indeed funded new ones. The government is investing over $26.3 million in 2022-23 and 2023-24 for more than 40 established and trusted support services to continue, providing certainty for providers and the community in these locations after the former government failed to fund these services past 30 June this year. There is $23 million to support the creation of economic and employment pathways in the Cape York, Goldfields, East Kimberley and Ceduna regions; $3 million in local brokerage funds for Ceduna, East Kimberley and the Goldfields; and $1.8 million to expand support initiatives in the Goldfields. On top of this funding, the government is also investing an additional $16 million to support priorities identified in the local services plans for each former CDC site to ensure that support services are provided efficiently and are responsive to the unique needs of each of the target community.</para>
<para>It was the Albanese government that actually listened to communities and delivered the support that they wanted to see, and that is something that we remain absolutely committed to. As the minister has said, our focus and our objective as a government remain clear: to empower people in communities and provide individuals and communities with a range of supports that they can choose to use when and how it suits them best. I look forward to further addressing the matters raised in the report and various dissenting reports in the Committee of the Whole. In line with the second of the committee's recommendations I recommend the bill be passed.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Ruston be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:38]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that this bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">A division having been called and </inline> <inline font-style="italic">the bells being rung—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, it's incredibly disorderly to call out when you're not even in your seat. I ask you not to call out.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, I called you to order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Kids go starving because they can't use the cashless debit card.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe, I have called you to order three times. I am the President of the Senate. When I call you to order, I expect order. There are ample opportunities for you throughout the week to make whatever contributions you want on any matter. This is not the time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've got to fight to the end, don't I, because you're oppressing us?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe!</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:49]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>11</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.<br />Senator Thorpe interjecting—</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Thorpe! Senator Lambie.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lambie</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like Senator Thorpe to withdraw her comment. I will not be called a racist in here, and I'm quite sure these people over here are offended. Quite frankly, I've had a gutful of it. I will not be labelled with that, and they should not be labelled with it either. I'd like her to come back and withdraw her comments. It is enough today—it is enough!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe was disorderly and disrespectful. I will review the tape and, if necessary, will ask her to come in and withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>44</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the amendment on sheet 1972 revised:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 — Obligations of Minister: reporting</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social </inline> <inline font-style="italic">Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 At the end of Part 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">243B Tabling of report relating to effect of cessation of cashless welfare arrangements</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) As soon as practicable after the end of each reporting period, the Minister must prepare a report on the social effect of the cessation of cashless welfare arrangements in each of the program areas.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the report must outline, in respect of each of the program areas, rates of, and trends in:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) violent crimes reported to police;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) presentations to hospital emergency departments, as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) overall presentations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) drug or alcohol-related presentations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) ambulance call-outs, as follows;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) overall call-outs;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) drug or alcohol-related call-outs;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) reportable incidents of domestic violence;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) referrals from Services Australia to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) social workers; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) alcohol counselling services; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) domestic violence counselling services; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) gambling counselling services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Examples of violent crime include, but are not limited to, the offence categories of homicide, assault, sexual assault and robbery (both armed and unarmed).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Minister must cause a copy of the report to be:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) published on the Department's website as soon as practicable after the completion of the report; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the report is published under paragraph (a).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">cashless welfare arrangements </inline>has the same meaning as set out in Part 3D of the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline> as in force immediately before the day on which Part 2 of Schedule 1 to the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Repeal of Cashless Debit Card and Other Measures) Act 202</inline><inline font-style="italic">2</inline> commenced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">program area</inline> has the same meaning as set out in section 124PD of the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline> as in force immediately before the day on which Part 2 of Schedule 1 to the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Amendment (Repeal of Ca</inline><inline font-style="italic">shless Debit Card and Other Measures) Act 2022</inline> commenced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">reporting period</inline> means the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the period of 6 months beginning on the day this section commences;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) each subsequent 6-month period ending 3 years after this section commences.</para></quote>
<para>The reason the coalition is moving this substantive amendment is so that for a period of three years from royal assent the government must publish details of key metrics of social harm within all the former cashless debit card sites, including, but not limited to, rates of violent crime, presentations to emergency departments and ambulance call-outs reported with incidents of domestic violence. In the absence of having these sorts of measures, how on earth can the government measure the success or otherwise of their decisions? We think that, as soon as practicable after the end of each reporting period, the minister must prepare a report on the social effects of the cessation of the cashless welfare arrangements in each of the program areas.</para>
<para>If they don't do this, this is just another action of the government in not being transparent. This is an opaque government, unless, of course, they are prepared to support this reasonable amendment. These are the very issues that we were seeking to avoid by the introduction of the cashless debit card. The removal of the cashless debit card has already seen a significant increase in these kinds of harmful behaviours, and we call on the government to support us not only in the interest of transparency but also, most importantly, in the interest of people in the communities that this impacts.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I outlined in the second reading debate the government's reasons for opposing this amendment. I know that the opposition will continue to pursue this amendment. To operationalise it would mean a waste of Commonwealth government resources and an attempt to turn the government's attention away from what really works, and I urge the Senate to oppose the amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens will not be supporting this amendment. We are absolutely in support of having really good evaluation and really good data, and the data that is available so far on compulsory income management shows that it doesn't work. The data that has been proposed in this amendment was a very biased set of data. It totally ignores any of the value of removing compulsory income management—removing the cashless debit card. There is research that is underway, looking at the evaluation of the cashless debit card. I would absolutely like to see more data, but this amendment doesn't capture what is needed in terms of evaluation of compulsory income management.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will speak very briefly to this amendment. It was an amendment I circulated. I think it's absolutely shocking and disgraceful that Senator Rice would say that and the Greens would vote against this amendment, when the government has promised services in these communities. They've put money aside, they've promised wraparound services, and this amendment would hold the government to account and make sure those services are actually doing what the government promised it would do for those communities. Quite frankly, it's too late now to judge the failure of removing the cashless debit card. It's too late to judge that, because we've already heard, on the ground, the negative impacts of removing the cashless debit card. But, at the very least, surely the Greens could hold the government to account.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I put the question that the amendment on sheet 1972 revised be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:01]<br />(The Chair—Senator McLachlan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move amendment (1) on sheet 1966 revised 2:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 — Sunsetting of compulsory enhanced income management and compulsory income management</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 123SW</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">123SX Sunsetting of compulsory enhanced income management</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The following provisions cease to be in force at the start of 24 March 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Subdivisions A to F and H of Division 2 of this Part;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Subdivisions A to B of Division 3 of this Part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) At any time before 24 March 2026, the Minister may, by legislative instrument, make rules prescribing matters of a transitional nature (including prescribing any saving or application provisions) arising out of the provisions mentioned in subsection (1) ceasing to be in force.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) To avoid doubt, the rules may not do the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) create an offence or civil penalty;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) provide powers of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) arrest or detention; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) entry, search or seizure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) impose a tax;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) set an amount to be appropriated from the Consolidated Revenue Fund under an appropriation in this Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) directly amend the text of the Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After section 123ZO</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">123ZP Sunsetting of compulsory income management</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The following provisions cease to be in force at the start of 24 March 2025:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) sections 123UC, 123UCA, 123UCB, 123UCC, 123UD, 123UE, 123UF and 123UFAA;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Subdivisions BA, BB and C of Division 2 of this Part;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Subdivisions B to DAA of Division 5 of this Part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) At any time before 24 March 2025, the Minister may, by legislative instrument, make rules prescribing matters of a transitional nature (including prescribing any saving or application provisions) arising out of the provisions mentioned in subsection (1) 6ceasing to be in force.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) To avoid doubt, the rules may not do the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) create an offence or civil penalty;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) provide powers of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) arrest or detention; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) entry, search or seizure;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) impose a tax;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) set an amount to be appropriated from the Consolidated Revenue Fund under an appropriation in this Act;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) directly amend the text of the Act.</para></quote>
<para>This amendment would insert a sunset clause into this legislation, which would fulfil the Labor Party's policy of ending compulsory income management. Labor went to the election saying that they were committed to an end to compulsory income management. As I noted in my second reading speech, we had just before the election the opposition spokesperson and now the Minister for Indigenous Australians, the Hon. Linda Burney, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Our fundamental principle on the basics card and the cashless debit card, it should be on a voluntary basis.</para></quote>
<para>Ms Burney then said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Labor's fundamental position is that we do not believe in mandatory income management.</para></quote>
<para>When the government came to power, and they said they were doing consultation on compulsory income management, they actually set up a time line as to how long that consultation period would be. It was 18 months, which led us initially to put the sunset clause at the end of the 18-month period, giving you plenty of time to do your consultation, which would have put it at 24 March next year, 2024.</para>
<para>I have since amended this amendment to actually add an extra year just to give you that extra time, and I understand that Senator Pocock is going to be in a position to support this amendment just to give you an extra year to fulfil that commitment of ending the dangerous racist policy of compulsory income management. It is the least you can do. I do not buy that, because you are doing consultation, you can't commit to a sunset clause. I was willing to engage on whatever type of sunset clause you might be interested in, given that we know that compulsory income management is a failed policy. It needs to end, but unfortunately the government was not willing to engage. They have not been willing to tell me, if 2024 or 2025 isn't an appropriate time for a sunset clause, when is an appropriate time. We need to have an end to compulsory income management. This amendment would put a very reasonable time frame on allowing that to occur.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government won't be supporting this amendment. The future of income management is and will be the subject of genuine and ongoing consultation with affected communities, individuals and experts in the field. Adoption of the amendment would undermine that process. Decisions will not be made until they can be informed by the outcomes of that consultation. Introducing a sunset date creates a series of additional risks. Arrangements to cease mandatory income management need to be measured and tailored to support communities and ensure no-one is left behind.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Australian Greens amendment (1) on sheet 1966 revised 2 be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [13:13]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Fawcett)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (2), (3) and (4) on sheet 1966 revised 2 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 4 — Obligations of Minister</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 123SV</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">123SVA Periodic estimates of cost of enhanced income management regime</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) As soon as practicable after the end of each reporting period, the Minister must prepare a written estimate of the full cost to the Commonwealth (as at the end of the period) of the operation of the enhanced income management regime established by this Part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Minister must cause the estimate for a reporting period to be:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) published on the Department's website as soon as practicable after it is prepared; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) tabled in each House of the Parliament within 7 sitting days of that House after the estimate is published under paragraph (a).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">reporting period</inline> means the following:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the period of 6 months beginning on the day this section commences;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the period of 12 months beginning on the day after the end of the period mentioned in paragraph (a);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) each subsequent 12-month period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 5 — Review by Parliamentary Joint Committee on Hum an Rights</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 243</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">243AA Review by Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights must conduct reviews under this section and report the Committee's findings of each review to both Houses of the Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Requirements for review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A review under this section must examine Part 3AA and Part 3B, so far as they relate to compulsory enhanced income management or compulsory income management, for compatibility with human rights.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">First review</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The first review under this section must be completed within 12 months after this section commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Subsequent reviews</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Each subsequent review under this section must be completed within 3 years after the completion of the previous review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">When review is completed</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) For the purposes of this section, a review is completed when the Committee's findings of the review have been tabled in both Houses of the Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">compulsory enhanced income management</inline> means the enhanced income management regime set out in Subdivisions A to F and H of Division 2, and Subdivisions A to B of Division 3, of Part 3AA.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">compulsory income management</inline> means the income management regime set out in sections 123UC, 123UCA, 123UCB, 123UCC, 123UD, 123UE, 123UF and 123UFAA, and Subdivisions BA, BB and C of Division 2, and Subdivisions B to DAA of Division 5, of Part 3B.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">human rights</inline> has the same meaning as in the <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights (Parliamentary Sc</inline><inline font-style="italic">rutiny) Act 2011</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 6 — Review by Senate Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 At the end of Part 7</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">243B Review by Senate Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Senate Community Affairs References Committee, or such other committee constituted under a resolution of the Senate, must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) begin a review of each legislative instrument made by the Minister for the purposes of Part 3AA or Part 3B within 3 months after the day the instrument is tabled in the Senate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) report the Committee's findings to the Senate as soon as practicable after completing each review.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments will improve a bad bill. They won't make it good enough for us to vote for it, but they will improve it.</para>
<para>Item (2) introduces a requirement to report on the costs of the SmartCard scheme. Item (3) requires a review by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights—the first one within a year and, subsequently, a review every three years. We know that this won't stop the worst harms of the bill, and we would absolutely seek to do that if we could, but at least this review process will provide some accountability. Item (4) requires a review by the Senate community affairs committee if and when the minister makes a legislative instrument expanding either the BasicsCard or the SmartCard. One of the key concerns that we have with this legislation is that it expands the minister's power in a dangerous way, so I hope that all of these amendments will be supported by the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators, those of you who are not participating in this debate are required to either sit and listen in silence or, if you wish to hold a discussion, please leave the chamber and show some courtesy to your colleagues.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition will be supporting the amendments that are being put forward by the Australian Greens because they provide greater transparency. We note that both the Greens and the Labor Party sought to vote against the transparency measures we sought agreement on; however, in the interests of at least some level of transparency we'll be supporting these amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be supporting these amendments. I note details of the SmartCard contracts, including their total value, are already available through AusTender, but we welcome the opportunity to provide more clarity. The other amendment would provide for regular mandatory review and report by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights. The committee regularly engages with this matter and I note that its <inline font-style="italic">Human rights scrutiny report </inline><inline font-style="italic">4 </inline><inline font-style="italic">of 2023</inline> included scrutiny of the income management reform bill and sought the minister's advice on a number of the provisions. The minister provided a response to the committee on 18 April 2023. Further, the instruments made under this bill are disallowable by both chambers of this parliament, which will provide plenty of opportunity for scrutiny and debate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move amendment (5) on sheet 1966 revised 2:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Page 66 (after line 14), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 7 — Exiting compulsory enhanced income management and compulsory income management</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Social Security (Administration) Act 1999</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 After section 123SH</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Subdivision GA — When persons not subject to the enhanced income management regime</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">123SHA Person's mental, physical or emotional wellbeing at risk</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A person, other than a person in relation to whom a voluntary enhanced income management agreement is in force, may apply to the Secretary for a determination that the person no longer be subject to the enhanced income management regime under this Part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The application must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) be made in writing using a form approved by the Secretary; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) be accompanied by the documents and other information required by the form.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Secretary must determine that a person is no longer subject to the enhanced income management regime under this Part if the Secretary is satisfied that being subject to the regime would pose a risk to the person's mental, physical or emotional wellbeing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) A determination under subsection (3) has effect accordingly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) A determination under subsection (3) is not a legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 In the appropriate position in Division 2 of Part 3B</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Subdivision DA — When persons not subject to the income management regime</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">123UOA Person's mental, physical or emotional wellbeing at risk</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A person, other than a person in relation to whom a voluntary income management agreement is in force, may apply to the Secretary for a determination that the person no longer be subject to the income management regime under this Part.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The application must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) be made in writing using a form approved by the Secretary; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) be accompanied by the documents and other information required by the form.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Secretary must determine that a person is no longer subject to the income management regime under this Part if the Secretary is satisfied that being subject to the regime would pose a risk to the person's mental, physical or emotional wellbeing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) A determination under subsection (3) has effect accordingly.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) A determination under subsection (3) is not a legislative instrument.</para></quote>
<para>My final amendment inserts an exit clause. For people who are caught up in compulsory income management that's been forced upon them against their will, this exit clause would allow them to make a case that their mental, physical or emotional wellbeing is at risk by being subject to compulsory income management and so they are able to exit the framework. Under the old cashless debit card, there was an exit clause. It was very hard to do, but at least, if you could show that your physical, mental or emotional wellbeing was at risk, you were able to exit. Under this legislation, that clause doesn't exist. There is not even an exit clause for people who are being harmed by compulsory income management. Again, this is a very reasonable measure that I think should have the support of everybody in this place.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting this amendment. However, I want to be very clear and considered on the reasons why. The provisions that Senator Rice referred to in the current legislation continue to operate. I note that the drafting of this amendment mirrors the legislation previously in place under the cashless debit card, which I believe was an exit process that was criticised for lengthy delays at the time by the Australian Greens.</para>
<para>The current consultation underway on the future of income management is listening to individuals and communities about the broader questions around income management but also about this very issue. Decisions we take about this matter will be informed by those consultations. The government will not support amendments that would see vulnerable people transitioned off this program in droves without much-needed support, or experiencing lengthy delays while these matters are dealt with.</para>
<para>Implementing this amendment would also require advice on the achievable time frames from Services Australia, development of relative ICT functionality, business processes, communications products and staff training.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that Australian Greens amendment (5) on sheet 1966, revision 2, be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>51</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a third time.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:27]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Fawcett)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>12</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It being 1.30 pm, we will move to two-minute statements.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As the recent budget and this government's own commentary around inflation have demonstrated, when it comes to running the economy, Labor just doesn't get it. It's like an episode from the <inline font-style="italic">Twilight Zone</inline>—another Labor government trying to rewrite the fundamentals of economics. The RBA are trying to put a brake on the economy by raising interest rates, yet this government keeps pouring fuel on the inflation fire by increasing government spending and overseeing wage expansion without the dividend of growing productivity. We had the madness of the Prime Minister saying that higher wages in the care sector were essential to growing productivity. This was only a week after the RBA increased interest rates yet again—for the 11th time—under this Prime Minister's watch.</para>
<para>A reading of the recent RBA minutes shows its heightened concern about the rising unit labour cost and the lack of productivity gains—both factors that contribute to higher inflation. Yet, shortly, this government will introduce a same job, same pay bill, which is motivated by nothing more than pure ideology and ignores the RBA's caution on wage growth. In his article on 20 June, Robert Gottliebsen wrote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The biggest government policy force driving inflation is arguably Burke, who pressed Fair Work to lift wages sharply and raise expectations—exactly what Lowe did not want to happen. Burke's industrial relations legislation lowers productivity.</para></quote>
<para>We all want higher wages, but they cannot come without lifting labour productivity. For the government to try to spend its way out of a high inflationary environment will only force the hand of the RBA to keep interest rates up, adding yet more cost-of-living pain and suffering for Australian families.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Road Safety</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Something very important happened this week in this building. There was a joint delegation of employer groups, businesses, employees, owner-drivers, gig workers, academics and the Transport Workers Union. They came here with a very clear, strong and united call for this parliament to urgently legislate minimum standards in the road transport industry that will ensure that their industry is safe, viable and sustainable.</para>
<para>When you have businesses, unions and workers—the whole industry—uniting around a common cause we must listen to them. They are telling us loudly and clearly that the pressure from the top of the supply chain and the pressure from Amazon and Uber are sending good Australian transport companies to the wall and are killing and maiming workers and families on our roads. This year alone, 109 people have died in truck crashes and there have been almost 200 insolvencies in the trucking industry. Even employer groups who supported the abolition of the RSRT in 2016 are calling for the government to act because they are being crushed by supply chain pressures.</para>
<para>No other industry would accept 109 people being killed in six months. Why should we accept slaughter and bloodshed in our workplaces? I say to those Liberals and Nationals who opposed minimum standards in road transport: 'You have blood on your hands.' There have been almost 1,300 people killed in truck crashes since the abolition of the RSRT, which has been replaced with nothing. Eleven food delivery riders have died. How many corpses need to be strewn across our roads before you say that enough is enough? How many funerals are enough?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor is feeding the one-third of Australians who rent to the wolves. Every single day, people in this country are getting that dreaded call, email or text letting them know that their rent is going up by $100, $200 or $300. These aren't abstract numbers. These represent the choices that renters are being forced to make—the choice between paying their rent and buying food; the choice between turning the heat up a little bit in their house because their landlord couldn't be bothered insulating and buying a bus ticket; or the choice between cramming another person into the house and setting up the shed as a bedroom. The line between having a home and having nowhere to go home to has never been thinner. Renters are being used by Labor as a financial buffer to prop up the economy. They're the grist for the profit mill of real estate tycoons who are hoarding 50, 100 or 300 properties.</para>
<para>The RBA governor expects rents to continue to rise. The government cannot just sit on its hands and abandon a third of the country. Unlimited rent increases must be made illegal. Unless we stop rents from skyrocketing, no matter how much housing we build, the queues for public housing will blow out and our chances of tackling this crisis will drop to zero. The Labor government needs to treat the rental crisis with the seriousness it deserves, and it needs to show leadership by coordinating with the states to freeze rents and cap rent increases. The Greens have heard Australian renters' pleas for help, and we will continue to fight for renters.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was absolutely staggered this week to hear that Minister Linda Burney MP made the claim that the Voice would not give advice on Australia Day. I couldn't understand how she could possibly justify that statement. I've looked into it, and I want to make three points in relation to this.</para>
<para>First, in the constitutional amendment which has been proposed, subsection 129(ii) would empower the Voice to make representations 'on matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples'. As former High Court judge Ian Callinan said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What does "relating to" mean? … The proposed subsection does not make any reference to "core" matters. The words "in relation to" are words of the broadest possible import. Again, in the end, the High Court will decide what matters relate to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples. It should be carefully noted that the proposed amendment is unqualified; it does not say core matters, or matters wholly, predominately, substantially, partially, exclusively, essentially, basically, largely, entirely, currently, broadly, especially, or even beneficially related to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander People. Everything is at large.</para></quote>
<para>Second, those seeking to justify Minister Burney's position are pointing to the explanatory memorandum, which says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">23. The matters may relate to Aboriginal peoples or Torres Strait Islander peoples, or both.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">24. The phrase 'matters relating to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples' would include …</para></quote>
<para>This is followed by a colon and paragraphs (a) and (b). It says 'include'; it doesn't say 'only'. That point has been made in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> today by both Anne Twomey and George Williams—constitutional law experts.</para>
<para>Third, the advocates for the Voice are saying they are going to make representations with respect to Australia Day. When those in the 'yes' campaign claim others spread misinformation, they should look at themselves in the mirror.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last night many Australians were sleeping rough in tents, in cars or even in doorways. Yet the Greens, knowing the urgent need for government investment in affordable and social housing, chose to side with the coalition earlier this week to delay legislation that addresses that very problem. We've had the Greens housing spokesperson, Max Chandler-Mather, actually declare that the government's plan to build one million homes over five years from 2024 is a complete joke. To the people waiting for a roof over their heads, it isn't. It's not funny at all to them. The Greens have been too busy grandstanding, too busy trying to get on social media, too busy playing politics and too busy trying to grab a headline to care about those they purport to represent. With the Greens, too often, it's their way or the highway, and that's not the way we go about it. The grandstanding by the Greens makes me wonder if we should all club together to buy them a ladder to help them reach the moral high ground that they purport to be from. I tell you what; it must be pretty cold and miserable up there, but not as cold and miserable as last night was for those unfortunate Australians who didn't have a home to go to.</para>
<para>So why do the Greens refuse to support the government's plan? Let me be very clear that it's for pure political benefit, pure political gain. They're more concerned with differentiating themselves from Labor than with helping needy Australians. I'll just remind the Greens that they're not here to get their own way and bolster their own power. In this place we very often work on collaboration, compromise, perspective and empathy—all qualities that go a long way to solving the problems that the country faces, which, after all, is why we're all here. I want to explain to the Greens, in regard to the rent freeze suggestion— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to give a big shout-out to the Hobart City Council. This week they voted to double the rates for owners of short-stay accommodation. Courage—good on you. Hobart has lost nearly 10 per cent of rentals to short-stay accommodation. Of course, Airbnb are out there clutching their pearls and warning that will impact on tourism. What a load of rubbish! Tassie's tourism rates were already going up way before Airbnb took over by stealth. We know Tasmania is the eighth great wonder of the world. Everybody wants to come to the island of Tasmania.</para>
<para>Don't get me wrong; some people Airbnb a room in their house—or just do it when they're on holidays—and I have no problem with that. I have a mate who Airbnbs her house, and she stays in the granny flat. It gives her some extra income, and she's not taking a house off the rental market. But this thing of buying a house just so you can make lots of cash on the weekend, instead of renting it out to a family in need, is beyond shameful and it's full of greed. There are politicians in Tasmania that have Airbnbs, and I would ask them to examine their own conscience. Do you really need to Airbnb when you are on such a big government wage and Tasmanian families are living in tents and cars?</para>
<para>Short-stay doesn't only take rentals off the market, like for fly-in fly-out workers; it also hurts the communities. Another story I was told by a woman in Hobart was that seven houses in her street are now Airbnbs. That means she no longer knows her neighbours, and that close-knit community she's lived in all her life feels empty to her now. Short-stay accommodation isn't the whole problem, but it is certainly adding to the problem that we're having in Tasmania and around the rest of the country. Well done to you, Lord Mayor Anna Reynolds and the Hobart City Council. Let's only hope that the other councils—27 or 28 of the ridiculous ones sitting out there—have taken note and have got the courage to do the same as Anna Reynolds and the Hobart City Council have done.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Live Animal Exports</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning in this place I tabled a petition from over 10,000 people—mostly Western Australians, but a few people from other states—calling on this federal Labor government to reverse its position on the banning of the live export trade in sheep. This ban is not backed by any science or any evidence. In fact, when we asked Minister Watt to tell us what the evidence was and to show us the science, in a question on notice, he sent back a one-paragraph extract from a Labor Party policy document. So the science and the evidence behind this ban is, apparently, from the government's point of view, a few words in a Labor Party policy document.</para>
<para>What do the science and evidence show? They show that the industry has done a remarkable job in improving animal welfare outcomes. The annualised mortality rate on board those ships—which I admit is a crude measure of animal welfare, but it is a legitimate measure of animal welfare—is now better than the annualised mortality rate on farm. I ask all Australians to think about that for a moment. The annualised mortality rate is better on those ships than on farm. The 3½ thousand Western Australians who are directly employed in that industry deserve your support to get this decision by the Labor government overturned. Change your mind. There's still time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The day of 8 June marked World Oceans Day, which was an opportunity to recognise the immense environmental, economic and cultural value of our oceans, including the Great Barrier Reef. I was lucky to spend World Oceans Day on Lady Elliot Island to announce funding that our government is committing to continue the incredible work that is taking place there. Our government is working to protect and strengthen the Great Barrier Reef, in the face of climate change, plastic pollution and other threats, through a record $1.2 billion investment. This includes $150 million to boost efforts to improve the water quality flowing through to the reef, $162 million for the Crown-of-thorns Starfish Control Program and $15.1 million for the Tourism Reef Protection Initiative, a fantastic program that I got to see firsthand on Lady Elliot Island.</para>
<para>We're also securing the future of AIMS in Townsville by investing $163.4 million in that agency, and we're working to ensure the Great Barrier Reef is free of gillnets by 2027. We're tackling deadly ghost nets in the northern Queensland waters, and we're working to strengthen traditional owners in their role as reef managers, including by establishing a sea-country alliance.</para>
<para>I am so proud of the work that our government has achieved through this important progress in our first year to improve the health and outlook of the Great Barrier Reef. I want to acknowledge the work of all of our fantastic agencies, from GBRMPA and AIMS to the department and our partners throughout Queensland, who are protecting the Great Barrier Reef for generations to come. Those Australians who love the reef and rely on the reef for their jobs know that the LNP put the reef at risk, in real terms and reputationally, and that only a Labor government will protect it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Duggan, Mr Daniel</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHOEBRIDGE</name>
    <name.id>169119</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Daniel Duggan has now spent eight months and one day in prison, facing extradition to the United States. He was arrested on 21 October 2022 and since then has been in solitary confinement. In the last few weeks, he has seen the sky only a handful of times but has otherwise been locked up completely alone. There are grave concerns for Dan's wellbeing—concerns that I share. His case raises the question: can Australian citizens really be locked up indefinitely at the request of a foreign power?</para>
<para>There are some big red flags around Dan's prosecution by the US. The timing of the indictment by US authorities in 2017 was exactly when the United States started talking about China as a strategic challenge. It's clear to many that this is a politicised extradition and prosecution, with the dual aim of making an example of China, and Australia placating our AUKUS allies. Did ASIO conspire to lure Dan back to Australia for the underhanded purpose of the US extradition? How can he be extradited for something that isn't even an offence in Australia and therefore fails the dual criminality test?</para>
<para>But at the heart of this matter is Dan—a husband, a father and an Australian citizen. I recognise now in the gallery the presence of Dan's wife, Saffrine, and his advocate, Warwick Ponder. They're fighting for Dan to be released on bail to be with his family, including his six wonderful children. They're fighting for the Australian government to protect this Australian citizen, and I am with them, as are all my Greens colleagues.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ukraine</title>
          <page.no>54</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 6 June the Kakhovka Dam was destroyed, leading to widespread human, economic and environmental damage in the Kherson region. Ukraine's deputy foreign minister described the event as the worst environmental disaster in Europe since Chernobyl, yet the dam's collapse and the resulting ecological devastation is yet to be mentioned in the Senate chamber.</para>
<para>Water levels in the Kakhovka reservoir were at a 30-year high when the dam fell. Over 40 people have reportedly died as a consequence of the flooding. Communities have been torn apart, infrastructure has been destroyed and drinking-water supplies have been disrupted. Sewerage, chemicals and fuels now contaminate the Dnipro River, precipitating unprecedented long-term consequences for surrounding ecosystems. At least 150 metric tonnes of oil have leaked into the river, and 55,000 hectares of forest have been inundated. Habitats are being destroyed, causing untold death and incalculable damage to biodiversity in the area. The Ukrainian environmental ministry anticipates that hundreds of rare animal and plant species, including some found only in this area, will be decimated because of the dam breach.</para>
<para>It is important that a catastrophe of this magnitude is properly recognised in this place. We stand alongside Ukraine as they fight for their homeland.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No matter what the Prime Minister and his ministers say, every day it becomes clearer and clearer that the Voice that's being put forward to the Australian people to vote on later this year is nothing other than a risky proposition. I commend my colleague Senator Scarr for outlining his views on why that is the case, and I want to go to that as well.</para>
<para>The Labor Party, the Prime Minister and the ministers have tried in earnest to convince Australians that there's nothing to worry about—absolutely nothing to worry about; there will be nothing to see here by way of unfettered flow of information from the Voice to government, controlling certain actions. Well, no matter how hard the Prime Minister and the ministers try to lull Australians into a false sense of security—and they have tried extremely hard to convince us that there is nothing to worry about; I'll give them that—today we saw the cat out of the bag, courtesy of Mr Dean Parkin, a member of the Yes campaign, who was caught saying exactly what we all knew was the case. There are questions that this government hasn't been able to answer. Will the Voice, for example, be able to provide advice to the government on whether Australia Day's date should change or, indeed, be abolished? We've had conflicting answers in this place, but we now know that campaigners for the Yes23 campaign, the formal campaigning body, believe it is something the Voice will be able to do. The cat's out of the bag. There is something to see here. This isn't some innocuous entity that won't have an impact on everyday Australians' way of life or the future of our country or how we celebrate our national day.</para>
<para>And, despite all of these assurances, despite all of these claims there's nothing to worry about, it's clear: this is what they are aiming for. This just proves that the Voice is risky. It's unknown. And, if it passes, it will be permanent. This will be bad for our nation and its future.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>C40 Cities</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the many different people who make up our one Queensland community, I draw the Senate's attention to C40 Cities, another campaign, from predatory billionaires who run the world, to destroy our standard of living and steal everything we own for themselves—all in the name of saving the planet. C40 Cities is a product of the usual suspects—billionaires Michael Bloomberg and George Soros, and the Clinton initiative. Sydney and Melbourne have already signed on.</para>
<para>As he calls on the world's governments to do more on climate change, Michael Bloomberg is doing the opposite. In 2022, he made 702 flights in his five jets, covering 810,000 kilometres, burning 1.2 million litres of jet fuel, and, for those who are counting, producing 3,200 tons of carbon dioxide. Bloomberg's No. 1 destination was not the Sudan or Afghanistan, where his money might actually help people; his favourite destination was the Bahamas.</para>
<para>Here are the top end C40 targets for 2030, just seven years away. There's cutting steel and cement use 56 per cent. There's increasing the number of people in each building 20 per cent—and the Reserve Bank governor recently made a similar comment. There's eliminating—yes, eliminating!—meat consumption and dairy consumption. There's limiting buying new clothes to three new items a year—three; that's three pairs of undies. Food waste is to be reduced 75 per cent, mostly from homes. We'll shop once a week, buy our allocated ration from bulk displays and eat everything we buy or starve until our next allocated shopping day. There'll be programmable digital currency to ensure compliance.</para>
<para>These rules are for you, for us, not for the elites and their nomenklatura, their henchmen in the media, academia, the bureaucracy and politics. The rules never apply to the people who make them.</para>
<para>One Nation stands opposed to serfdom. One Nation works for freedom, basic rights and free choice.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>PricewaterhouseCoopers</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the moment, it seems that scarcely a day passes without some new revelation regarding the culture of conflict of interest, corruption and cover-up in the consulting industry. Late last week, PwC, a firm whose name is rapidly becoming synonymous with graft, was revealed to have engaged in more conduct that gives rise to serious concerns about its ability to manage conflicts of interest appropriately. In 2016 and 2017, when it was contracted to provide a range of services to the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency, PwC acquired a substantial stake in a private tertiary education provider, Top Education Group. Through extensive contracts and numerous embedded staff, PwC gained unrivalled access to TEQSA, while failing to disclose the potential conflict of interest arising from its investment in Top Education Group.</para>
<para>Once again, we're left wondering how far PwC's tentacles reach into the heart of our public institutions. Several senior partners also made individual investments in the training organisation, TOP, including then CEO, Luke Sayers, and his successor, Tom Seymour, who led the tax practice where confidential Treasury documents were used to market tax-minimisation strategies to large multinationals. In each new scandal we're hearing the same names, the same firms, the same partners and the same leaders, all implicated in the same ethically dubious practices. What is it going to take for the Albanese government to join with state governments and say, 'Enough is enough,' ban contracts with PwC and back our call to remove PwC's registration as a tax agent?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pricewaterhousecoopers</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last night, the Finance and Public Administration References Committee tabled its report, <inline font-style="italic">PwC</inline><inline font-style="italic">:</inline><inline font-style="italic"> a calculated breach of trust</inline>. I have to say that I was somewhat bemused to see PwC's response to that report in the media overnight. I think it continues to demonstrate the same approach that they've been demonstrating for a period of time. In the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> and a number of other newspapers, PwC are quoted as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A PwC spokesman said the firm thanked the Senate "for its important work".</para></quote>
<para>Seriously! That's nice! It goes on to say that they said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"We acknowledge today's interim report. We will carefully consider its contents and await the government's response."</para></quote>
<para>Have they not read the report? It's 16 pages and there is no recommendation in the report directed to the government. It is all directed to PwC. I would suggest that whoever PwC got to write their statement in response to the report not be contracted to do that work again.</para>
<para>This is about something very simple: co-operate with the Tax Practitioners Board and the AFP; be upfront with the Australian community and the international community about the deception that you undertook as a part of the consultations with respect to tax reform in this country; and look after your people. How hard can it be? It's about time PwC stepped up.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We know that the gig economy is both responding to and shaping our changing world. In many respects, that has been good for consumers, with cheaper services, greater choice and lower costs. But what price are we really prepared to pay for this convenience? What we're seeing across our country is a race to the bottom. We're seeing the hard-fought-for industrial rights of Australians being undermined, and that's bad for workers, it's bad for employers and it's bad for this country.</para>
<para>A survey by McKellar of over a thousand gig workers showed that, despite the promises of flexibility, low pay and fear of deactivation are pressuring workers to work long hours, to work during peak times and to rush. And for all that trouble, two-thirds of full-time workers are earning less than the minimum wage—workers like Davis, who I had the opportunity to meet with, alongside the TWU, in parliament this week. Davis is a food delivery worker in the gig economy in Melbourne. Despite putting in substantial hours and effort, he told me this week that his average hourly earnings are just $6.50. This is not okay. It is not acceptable in a country like Australia, where we have put blood, sweat and tears into an industrial relations system which should protect workers and which we should be proud of. We need change and we need reform, and I'm proud to stand side-by-side with the Transport Workers' Union and the SDA, industry and workers until we deliver it here.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>56</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rules for Questions</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>During question time yesterday the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate asked me to review what he called the prelude to a question asked by a government senator. The 'Rules for questions' under standing order 73(1) provide that questions shall not contain arguments, inferences or imputations. Numerous presidents have ruled that questions should not be prefaced by statements. Other rulings noted in <inline font-style="italic">Odgers'</inline>, at page 629, confirm that questions are permissible only for the purposes of obtaining information and that they should not contain statements, assertions, allegations, insinuations and other extraneous material.</para>
<para>I do agree that the question referred to by Senator Birmingham stretched the bounds, the latitude, that is extended to senators in asking questions. However, it is far from the only question to do so. Many questions, over many years, from senators all around the chamber, have similarly tested that latitude. I reiterate the rulings I have just referred to and invite senators to review the rules for questions and answers over the coming winter adjournment.</para>
<para>Honourable senators: Hear, hear!</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>57</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Ukraine</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Wong. This week the United Kingdom hosted the Ukraine Recovery Conference, at which US Secretary of State Blinken announced a further US$1.3 billion to help reconstruct Ukraine's energy grid and transport infrastructure and to support Ukraine's economic recovery. Unlike the US, the UK, Japan and other like-minded partners, Australian ministers did not invest the time to attend the Ukraine Recovery Conference. Minister, how much has the Albanese government invested to support humanitarian and reconstruction efforts in Ukraine since coming to office?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for his question, and I do acknowledge his serious interest in and focus on national security and foreign policy. Particularly at these times, I think it is a good thing if we have people from different political parties and across the chamber who actually take a serious interest in these matters.</para>
<para>Senator Fawcett has asked a number of questions about this, and I would make the first point about ministerial representation. It's pretty disappointing, isn't it, when that is the basis of a question and where the opposition—on the one hand, Mr Dutton complains about the Prime Minister going to international events, and then you come in here and complain that I've actually turned up in the Senate to answer questions as opposed to going to this event. The opposition really can't have it both ways. You can't say, on the one hand, 'You're doing too much travelling, Prime Minister,' demand parliamentary accountability and then have a go at us for deciding that we probably should make sure we attend parliament.</para>
<para>As is appropriate in such circumstances where parliamentary duties have prevented Australian ministers from attending—and obviously Senator Payne well knows you can't attend everything—we have asked our high commissioner, Mr Smith, who is obviously a former defence and foreign minister. I also provided a message to the conference.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm coming to the quantum.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator Fawcett. I believe the minister's coming to the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Fawcett</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is the relevant—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Please continue, Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> There was a comment made at the beginning about representation. I understand that we have provided some total of $680 million to date, including $510 million in military assistance. I know the senator has raised, I think in estimates, the provision of the small amount of moneys— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you are correct, and I will repeat that here: Australia is well placed to help Ukraine's recovery, particularly with our world-class expertise in removing landmines and unexploded ordnance. The UN stats confirm that such devices have killed or injured over 800 people, including 94 children, since Russia's illegal invasion began in February 2022. Your department has confirmed that there is $12.9 million uncommitted from the humanitarian emergency fund. Will you use this to support de-mining operations urgently needed in Ukraine?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I acknowledge the senator did ask these questions in estimates, and I also acknowledge he has raised this with me and I have not had the opportunity in the hours since yesterday afternoon to check on his request on this fund. I will ascertain precisely. I have just asked my office to provide a response to the aspect of the question relating to the humanitarian emergency fund.</para>
<para>I would make the point that obviously we stand with Ukraine and, for all the reasons we know, against the illegal and immoral invasion by Russia. We continue to provide support. The senator would know there are many humanitarian emergencies around the world at this stage, sadly, and some come to mind. Obviously, Sudan is one of them. So there are many calls on our humanitarian emergency funding, and we will continue to consider all requests.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDE</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Fawcett, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the coalition government—and, I acknowledge, with the now government's support—established Australia's record as the largest non-NATO contributor to Ukraine with a comprehensive package announced soon after the invasion. Internationally, Australia is seen, by some reports, to now be a bystander in terms of its support. What is the government doing to make sure that that impression does not prevail and that Australia takes its rightful place as a strong supporter of Ukraine?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australia is a strong supporter of Ukraine. Australia understands, as a member of the international community, that there should not be abrogation of the United Nations Charter and that the principle of the protection of territorial sovereignty is not only an important legal principle, as a matter of principle, but also fundamental to our security. When I speak to those in South-East Asia and in the Pacific, I explain and articulate our view as to why Ukraine, even though it's a long way from some of the nations I visit, matters. It matters because the principle of territorial sovereignty, the principle that the UN Charter should be adhered to, is a protection for countries small and large in the international system. So I disagree with the assertion that the senator is making. Australia stands against— <inline font-style="italic">(T</inline><inline font-style="italic">ime expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Wong. I refer to the state of the economy a year ago, when the Albanese government inherited a poor economic legacy from the Liberals and Nationals, with reference to economic data which showed that wages were stagnant, there was $1 trillion of debt with nothing to show for it, and there was the highest quarterly inflation this century, as well as challenging economic conditions globally. Can the minister please update the Senate on Australia's economic outlook since the Albanese Labor government began growing the economy, supporting businesses and boosting jobs and wages?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Sheldon for his question. The Albanese government and those on this side are focused on delivering a better future for all Australians, and we understand that at the heart of that is a stronger economy and an economy in which all Australians can participate and from which all Australians can gain the benefit.</para>
<para>I know those opposite find the truth hard to bear at times, but the reality is that they left the economy in a terrible state. Their approach to economic management was defined by wastes and rorts and of course, as the good senator has reminded us, by a trillion dollars in debt with nothing to show for it. Of course, they did tell us, and they printed cups that told everybody, that they were in surplus, but, like so much under the Morrison Liberal government, it was just yet another announcement without any delivery—a slightly embarrassing one. They were left with a lot of merchandise they don't know what to do with—lots of merch. But there was a trillion dollars in debt with nothing to show for it. What else are they known for? Well, those opposite deliberately kept wages low.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those opposite might bellow all they like, but Australians know they were for lower wages. They were for lower wages and they continue to be. If you listen to Senator Cash on anything to do with industrial relations—Australian workers understand what she's saying—she wants their wages lower. You want their wages lower, Senator Cash. Australians know what you're all about. Australians know the ideological bent that you're all about.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call Senator Sheldon, I am going to remind senators that constant calling out interjections across the chamber is disorderly. I called the chamber to order about seven times and everyone kept interjecting.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please explain to the Senate how the Labor government is taking action to help all Australians have access to secure and well-paid jobs, and how is the government's progress evidenced by Australia's labour market data that has been recently released?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>More Australians are in work than ever before. The participation rate is higher, and more women are employed in paid—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order across the chamber!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know those opposite may not like to hear the fact that we actually have more people in work, more women in work, than ever before, and we've seen record jobs growth. That's a good thing for Australians. More than 465,000 jobs have been created since we came to office, and Australia has recorded significantly stronger employment growth than any of the major advanced economies. Since May 2022, jobs here have grown faster than in the US, the UK, Japan, Germany and Canada. We know that the circumstances ahead are challenging. But, unlike those opposite, we are focused on stronger jobs growth and better wages growth. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister explain to the Senate how the government's economic plan is laying the foundations for a stronger economy and delivering a better future for Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are a government focused on making sure we have a plan to make our economy stronger and more productive, and working with Australians, helping Australians, through challenging times. And our budget was carefully calibrated to take the pressure off the cost of living, rather than adding to it. At the same time, we're laying stronger foundations by making our economy more productive.</para>
<para>What we do know is that we had a wasted decade under those opposite. What we do know is that those opposite delivered the slowest decade of productivity growth in 60 years and it will take time to turn this around. What we do know is that those opposite were not supportive of wage increases for minimum wage workers. What we do know is that, for those opposite, lower wages were a deliberate design feature of their economic plan. Australians know what you were about. You're about lower wages for working people and less secure jobs. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Cybersecurity</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Senator Watt. The <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> reported last week that Commonwealth government data was stolen by Russian hackers who infiltrated the systems of law firm HWL Ebsworth. Will the government reveal what data has been stolen and when the government knew that Commonwealth data had been compromised?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Paterson. It won't surprise Senator Paterson that we're not going to be revealing the data that appears to have been hacked by Russian hackers. I'm actually a little surprised that Senator Paterson would expect that we would do such a thing. But, certainly, the Australian government is aware of a cyber incident impacting HWL Ebsworth.</para>
<para>On 1 May 2023, HWL Ebsworth reported a cyber incident involving ransomware and claims of data exfiltration and publication to the data web. On 8 May 2023, HWL Ebsworth provided initial notification to the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner under the Notifiable Data Breaches scheme. On 9 June 2023, HWL Ebsworth became aware that a threat actor had claimed to have published at least 1.4 terabytes of exfiltrated data on the dark web.</para>
<para>The government continues to actively engage HWL Ebsworth as it investigates the extent of the breach, including impacts on Commonwealth information. HWL Ebsworth has begun notifying impacted clients regarding their information identified as compromised as part of this breach. This process remains ongoing and will take time to complete due to the scale of the impacted data.</para>
<para>The government is continuing to work with HWL Ebsworth to understand and manage potential consequences of the publication of the data. Of course, specific inquiries relating to this incident should be directed to HWL Ebsworth. I am aware that the firm is working with clients and the OAIC to meet relevant obligations under the Privacy Act 1988 and ensure that affected individuals are notified as soon as possible.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How many Australian businesses and individuals have been impacted by this data breach and have they been informed that their data has been compromised?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator W</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>ATT (—) (): Again, Senator Paterson, I don't think you can seriously expect that we're going to be putting into the public domain the sort of information that you're seeking there as to the number of businesses that are affected. These are obviously very sensitive matters.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Watt, please resume your seat. Senator Paterson?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Paterson</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order, the government was able to share these sorts of numbers in relation Optus and Medibank attacks—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, that's not a point of order; it's a debating point. Minister Watt, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, I'd be interested to go back and see who actually provided what information in relation to those data breaches, because I certainly recall that, in a number of instances, it was the companies themselves who decided to put that kind of information into the public domain. The other part of your question was whether affected individuals or organisations have been notified. In my previous answer, I made the point that HWL Ebsworth has begun notifying impacted clients regarding their information identified as compromised as part of this breach. But this process does remain ongoing. It will take time to complete due to the scale of the impacted data, but the government takes this seriously and is continuing to work with HWL Ebsworth.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On 27 February, the Minister for Home Affairs shared that she expected to have the newly announced cybersecurity coordinator in place, and I quote, 'Within the next month'. That was almost four months ago. When will the new cybersecurity coordinator be appointed and announced?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to take your direction, President. I don't know whether that question actually does relate to the primary. Obviously, it still involves cybersecurity, but being the generous person that I am, I'm willing to answer the question from Senator Paterson. The Prime Minister announced the establishment of a coordinator for cybersecurity and the National Office for Cyber Security on 27 February this year. This role will ensure a centrally coordinated approach to deliver government cybersecurity responsibilities and lead across the Australian Public Service the coordination and triaging of action in response to a major cyber incident. I know it's the minister's intention to announce the new coordinator in the coming weeks. The minister has taken the time to make sure that we get the very best possible appointment to that role. And I might point out that, of course, this is the first time we've had an Australian minister for cyber security in the cabinet, so I think this government's record is strong.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>PricewaterhouseCoopers</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>BARBARA POCOCK () (): My question is directed to Minister for Finance, Katy Gallagher. Yesterday the Senate's consultant inquiry released a report, supported across this chamber, which found that PwC engaged in a shocking and calculated breach of trust and a deliberate cover-up. The New South Wales government has suspended PwC from working on government tax. Queensland Treasury has banned contracts with PwC, as has the Reserve Bank. Meanwhile, your government continues to award contracts to PwC. One with the health department was published on AusTender just last week. When will you ban all contracts with PwC and cancel PwC's registration as a tax agent?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Pocock for the question and for the work that she's been doing, along with my colleague Senator Deb O'Neill, on inquiring into the breaches of confidentiality by PwC. As I have said in estimates and in other places, we are deeply disappointed and angry at the actions of PwC in relation to this matter and we have taken a number of steps to deal with it in the short term. The PwC issue has been referred to the AFP, and the Tax Practitioners Board investigation is continuing. There are recommendations from the 2019 review of the Tax Practitioners Board that weren't progressed. We are progressing those. We've also provided additional funding to the Tax Practitioners Board to give them the investment they need to do compliance investigations.</para>
<para>In relation to procurement—and I would again repeat that the issue that has been brought to light by PwC's behaviour was a breach of a confidentiality agreement—we have acted in the area of procurement. We've directed PwC to stand down from government contracts any personnel who were involved in or had knowledge of tax matters from government contracts. We've added new clauses into standard government procurement contracts to further strengthen the ability of the government to cancel these contracts in response to behaviour in the future. We've reminded all departmental secretaries that ethical behaviour must be taken into account as part of the value-for-money exercise under the procurement framework, and we've started work on a supplier code of conduct that will outline behavioural standards expected from suppliers during procurement processes. We will consider further actions as required. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>AFP Commissioner Kershaw is mates with former New South Wales police commissioner Mick Fuller, who is now a partner at PwC. Last night we learned these mates have recently worked together to generate a new $750,000 contract between PwC and the AFP, without a tender. What actions have you taken to give Australians confidence that the AFP's investigation into PwC will not be influenced by close relationships?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to the report, there was a report to the AFP on 24 May relating to allegations of criminal conduct. I think it's critical that the AFP is able to undertake its investigation into these allegations without any further comment on that specifically.</para>
<para>In relation to the issue raised by Senator Pocock, the assertions that are seeking to call into question the integrity of the AFP—an agency that is committed to protecting Australians from serious threats—are extremely disappointing. AFP officers spend each and every day working to protect Australians and Australians' interests. They're not easy jobs. The work is often dangerous, and many AFP officers, just like police all around the country, put their lives at risk every day to ensure that we can go about our lives safely. The Australian public should have every confidence that, just like all serious criminal investigations, this investigation into PwC will be undertaken by experienced investigators within the AFP's special investigations team.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pocock, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BARBARA POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>BFQ</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, my concerns are well based. Half the internal audit committee of the AFP are former PwC partners with more than 20 years standing as partners. Every year PwC donates to the Labor Party—last year over $120,000 in direct donations alone. Voters are calling me and asking: is this cash for contracts? I had one such call this morning. At the very least, this is a problem of perception. When will you ban donations from any consultancy engaging in government work?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Political donations are governed by specific donations law and are a matter for the party organisation. They're not a matter for the government. But I would say, and I have said this in estimates when it was raised by a number of Greens senators: if there is a specific allegation of anything inappropriate that doesn't adhere to electoral donation laws or procurement processes in government then make it, but don't just stand and smear. We have taken appropriate action against this breach of trust and this outrageous behaviour from PwC. We have taken action through the Treasury, we have taken action through procurement. The matter has been referred to the police. That is what the government should have done. We have done all of those things, and if there is anything further that we need to do in response—and we will read the committee's report—then we will consider it.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call the Senator Bilyk, I remind senators that the latter part of that question was precisely what I referred to in my statement.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Housing Australia Future Fund</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Housing, and the Minister for Homelessness, Senator Farrell. I keep hearing from constituents and stakeholders about the urgent need for more affordable housing in Australia to meet the unmet need from Australians struggling to put a roof over their head. The Labor government has a clear and ambitious housing reform agenda to deliver houses for Australians who need them. I am particularly interested in a specific component of that, the Housing Australia Future Fund, which I understand will improve housing outcomes and affordability. Could you please outline what this fund will do and what, if anything, is preventing this from becoming a reality today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her ongoing interest in the issue of housing and homelessness, particularly in her home state of Tasmania. I can answer her question because the Albanese government wants every Australian to have the security of a roof over their head. Fundamental to our plan is increasing the supply of new housing, which is exactly what the $10 billion Housing Australia Future Fund will do. The fund would deliver 30,000 social and affordable rental homes in its first five years, including a minimum of 1,200 in your home state of Tasmania, Senator Bilyk.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Duniam</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Huh?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, Senator Duniam. It will deliver housing for people escaping family violence, for veterans and for First Nations Australians. Sadly this week the Liberals and the Nationals and the newest member of their coalition, the Greens political party, teamed up to reject the Housing Australia Future Fund Bill. The actions of the Greens stopped the Housing Australia Future Fund from starting to enter into commitments for new homes from 1 July this year. They did this because the Greens love to campaign about more housing, but, when it comes to it, the Greens do everything they can to block more affordable housing for vulnerable Australian. Just two days after the Greens rejected the fund in the Senate, Yarra city Greens councillors voted against social housing in their area. While explaining their opposition to the new social housing on council owned land, one Greens councillor said the land was better used for 'other things than social housing'. Another Greens councillor complained that social housing wasn't inclusive. Sadly, the Greens talk the talk on affordable housing, but, when it comes to actually supporting specific projects, they vote it down. We will not be deterred by the Greens political games. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, like all on this side, was hugely disappointed that the Housing Australia Future Fund will be delayed. I know these delays will have impacts on the delivery of this important component of the government's housing reform agenda and will have an effect on Australians who are in urgent need of safe and affordable homes. Can the minister explain to the Senate what the impact of these delays will be?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): I thank Senator Bilyk for her first supplementary question. We have seen the Greens claiming that there is no cost to the rejection of the Housing Australia Future Fund. The reality is that that is not true. The cost of the Greens's delay has been made very clear by many. Those opposite, the strange new coalition of the Greens, Liberals and Nationals, should be ashamed of themselves. The actions of the Greens mean less access to affordable housing for those who most need it in this country. The Greens know that every day the fund is delayed past 1 July, another $1.3 million won't be going into social and affordable housing in Australia. The Greens want to play their political games, but we want to get on with doing what the Australian people elected us to do, delivering housing. The Greens are about protest, and we are about homes for people. Because of this— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bilyk, your second supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that answer, Minister. But it wasn't just those on this side that were frustrated at the delays. I'm aware that stakeholders have been calling for the parliament to pass the government's housing agenda and that stakeholders have expressed frustration at the delays which are being faced by people in need of housing. Can the minister provide an update to the Senate on how the opposition to the Albanese government's housing agenda has been received by these stakeholders?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bilyk for her second supplementary question. Yes, I can provide that answer. Across the country we're hearing from representatives of those fighting for more affordable housing and who are appalled by the Greens, Liberals and Nationals' deal.</para>
<para>The New South Wales minister said that the work we were doing—the work that everyone who is interested in actually delivering housing under these processes—was now going to be paused.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who was that?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was the housing minister in New South Wales, Senator Watt! The head of BlueCHP, a social, affordable and disability housing provider, said that they had spent the last 18 months preparing 3,000 properties to start construction as soon as the bill passed, which now may not happen.</para>
<para>People are confused about the new Greens-Liberal coalition deal. President, can I request that during the break you consider shifting the Greens over to the other side—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister Farrell—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>where their real coalition friends are?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for answering the question has expired.</para>
<para>Honourable senators inte rjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ciccone, that is out of order!</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senators! Senator Tyrrell is on her feet, waiting to ask a question and there needs to be silence in the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that, President. My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Senator Gallagher. Two years ago, the House Standing Committee for Health, Aged Care and Sport completed it's <inline font-style="italic">The n</inline><inline font-style="italic">ew frontier</inline> report, which made 31 important recommendations to help make it easier for Australians to access new medical technologies like medicines, devices and diagnostics. The inquiry spoke with just about everyone in this space: patients, clinical, health groups and the industry. There were more than 200 submissions and a dozen public hearings around the country. All that work was on a really important issue and yet the government hasn't spoken a single sentence in response. Nobody here wants people to miss out on the life-saving and life-improving technologies they need, but that's what's happening now and it's what the report was about. When can I tell Tasmanians that you will respond to it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Tyrrell. I'm going to have to take that on notice. I'm not aware of that report, and I think you said it was a couple of years ago when it was reported—so under the previous government. It's our custom and practice to report within six months of committee reports being tabled, so I would imagine that should have happened under the former government. But I will take further advice on it and come back to you. I'm sorry, I just don't have the detail in front of me.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, your first supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The job of the Medical Services Advisory Committee, MSAC, is to recommend whether to fund medical technologies, which means they become affordable for the average Australian. But there are delays with the committee approving things which can be of up to eight years from the first submission. Then there are delays in the government's approval process after the MSAC recommendation which can take a further two years. Can the minister advise specifically what is being done to address this bottleneck?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will come back to the senator with a comprehensive answer on that. We do have those bodies in place specifically to use expert knowledge and get advice to government around approvals processes. And it's not just for medical technology: there are other processes for pharmaceuticals as well, and other treatments. So there are good reasons to have processes in place that advise government and then, obviously, government has to make decisions—particularly if there are fiscal implications for those. But we are absolutely determined to build and invest in a world-class health system here. We have that, but it has to be stronger. It's under enormous pressure, and we know that improvements in medical technology, devices and treatments are being accelerated at pace, and that systems have to respond to that. But I will come back with a comprehensive answer from the Minister for Health and Ageing.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Tyrrell, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator TYRRELL</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The health technology assessment review is looking at how we can make the assessment and approval of new medical technologies simpler, but the review excludes many important devices, such as pacemakers and some cancer treatment technologies. They are still facing delays and they are no less important. Can the minister tell us how many improvements can be applied to all technologies, not just those subject to the review?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think it's best that I take that on notice and come back with an answer to the whole thing. I'm sorry I couldn't assist you more, Senator Tyrrell.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Budget</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Gallagher. Last month's budget predicted inflation would be three per cent by next year's budget. Does the government stand by that forecast and does it agree with the Reserve Bank deputy governor Michele Bullock that unemployment needs to increase to 4.5 per cent in order to tame inflation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her first question in this place. Yes, the government stands by the forecasts outlined in the budget. If there are changes to those they will get updated in the normal way, as has been done in every budget under every government since they've been put together. They are forecasts to set out the expectations of the Treasury and their advice to government about what is happening over the economy. I would say that in that budget we did forecast an uptick in unemployment as a result of higher interest rates, some global uncertainty and the fact that we expect our economy to slow over the next 12 to 18 months. They were all forecast in the budget. What we are seeing playing out across the economy is in line with those budget forecasts.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kovacic, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">S</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>enator KOVACIC () (): Does the minister agree with the most recent CPI data released by the ABS that reveals that due to inflation the price of milk rose 16.1 per cent and the price of fruit rose 10.6 per cent between March 2022 and March 2023? As Australian fund manager Kate Shew said this week: 'Australia's inflation pulse is not receding as quickly as its peers.' What responsibility does the Albanese Labor government accept for these pressures?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for the question. In relation to the impacts on inflation and the contributors to inflation, there are obviously a range of inputs that are influencing the inflation number, and inflation is staying higher for longer than we would like. The Treasurer has been saying that consistently. The reason that our budget is so focused on putting downward pressure on inflation whilst easing cost of living, repairing the budget, finding $40 billion worth of savings and returning 82 per cent of upward revisions to revenue is that it was precisely calibrated to deal with the inflation challenge. We do believe that inflation has peaked and is coming back and it will head towards the target range over the next 18 months or so. That is in line with budget forecasts. But, yes, we would like it to come down faster. That's why government's decisions have been so calibrated. <inline font-style="italic">(</inline><inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline><inline font-style="italic">)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kovacic, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KOVACIC</name>
    <name.id>306168</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does the minister agree with the same CPI index data showing Australians paid 26.2 per cent more for gas and other household fuels, 14.9 per cent more for utilities and 6.3 per cent more for medical, dental, and hospital services in March this year than in March 2022? Doesn't the Albanese government's inflation crisis now represent Labor's latest tax on households across our country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer to that question is no. I would say that the quarter with the largest growth in inflation was the quarter ending in March of last year. So it was actually before the government changed. That was the quarter with the single largest growth in inflation. That was when monetary policy started tightening and interest rates started lifting. There are a range of contributors to the CPI number. It does include gas and other household fuels. I would say that if we hadn't taken decisive action in December last year that could have hit households even harder. We know that. AEMO and other expert advisers have told us that—that prices, had we not acted, would have been higher and would have hit households harder. And you opposed it. You as the opposition opposed the steps that we took, which have eased that pressure on households. That's why in this budget we have $1½ billion going to support households with energy bill relief.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Internet Content</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Minister Wong. Documents released under FOI show that the Australian government secretly asked big tech to censor and de-platform the former member for Hughes, Craig Kelly, for criticism of government policy, and the former member for Dawson, George Christensen, for promoting a peaceful phone-in protest. Twitter declined to de-platform Mr Kelly, as Twitter deemed his posts not to be misinformation. However, Craig Kelly's entire Facebook account was removed for his posting or sharing of scientific papers, data and expert opinion that contradicted government policy. Minister, what legislative or regulatory power does any government department have to request the censoring of lawful, free political speech on social media platforms by a parliamentarian—specifically a parliamentarian?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you to the senator for the question. The first point I'd make in relation to the questions about Mr Christensen and Mr Kelly whilst they were parliamentarians is that obviously those actions of government to which the senator is referring were actions of the previous government. That's the first point I'd make. I can assist you as much as I can, but this might be something you might want to have a chat with those on the other side about. But, more broadly, I understand these matters were discussed in Senate estimates in response to questions from Senator Roberts in particular. I'm also advised that the approach the government took then, as the evidence by departments demonstrates, was to refer posts to social media companies for those companies to assess if those posts met the platform's policies.</para>
<para>The senator asked about legal provisions. The advice I have is that this is a referral process from government that was engaged in—and I assume it's still engaged in—but ultimately the legal capacity to take down a post or whatever information is action that's taken by the digital platform itself, and that is ultimately a matter for that platform. If there's anything further I can assist with, I will do so. But I would again reiterate that I appreciate you have a different view, Senator, but the evidence before estimates was that the government and the health department were concerned with disinformation and misinformation, and that will inform the basis of referrals. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, which government department decides what exactly is misinformation and what is the truth, especially when history, including the recent COVID period, teaches us that today's mistruth is actually tomorrow's truth? Who determines the truth, and do they have the power under our Constitution to censor—which is what they're trying to do—free political speech? Do they have that power, Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am of the view—and I suspect many people in this chamber are—that there is the weight of scientific evidence, peer reviewed by people who are appropriately qualified. And I will look to—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know, Senator Canavan, these are not your views. But the view I have is that the government—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Your government was the one that did this, so can I just be really clear, before I take that interjection—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At least he's consistent, I suppose!</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Canavan, I called you to order twice, and you continued—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Canavan! Interjections are disorderly. Order, Senator Canavan! Minister Wong, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Peer reviewed advice from medical and—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Senator Babet?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ba</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, President. I appreciate that—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, why are you on your feet?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Babet</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm on my feet for a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Babet</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that the minister is attempting to answer the question or, rather, dance around the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What is your point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Babet</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My point of order is that my question was, under the Constitution, which government department can censor free speech? Who can censor us? We are, of course, the parliament.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was part of your question and the minister is being relevant to your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para> There are a few concepts in that question. One, of course, is that parliamentary privileges is an important part of the Westminster system. Secondly, there is a distinction between false information or misinformation and free speech. You and I may disagree, or you and the Morrison government may disagree, about where that time is. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired</inline><inline font-style="italic">) </inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Babet, a second supplementary.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BABET</name>
    <name.id>300706</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for your answer. From this day forward, will your new government give a guarantee that none of your departments or agencies will ever again request big tech to censor or remove, or anything else, a lawful post by a member of parliament or a member of the public or anyone else ever again? Can you give that guarantee to the Australian people whom you represent? If you can, great; if you can't, tell us you can't.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in response to the primary, the advice I have is the legal framework for this is with the platforms themselves. I would make the point, Senator Babet, that I do think the rise of different platforms requires a mature conversation amongst people who may have different political views about how we manage the debates and conversations on those platforms.</para>
<para>I do have a view that democracy does require, and is stronger for, at least agreement around certain facts. We are better as a democracy if we can debate, on the basis of facts that we all understand, what the appropriate policy response is. I think it is a risky thing for us where we allow an equivalence between things that are demonstrably true and things that are demonstrably not.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>65</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. Given the Albanese Labor government's recent May budget was another significant step in laying the foundation for a stronger economy into the future, after a wasted decade, can the minister please provide an update to the Senate on how the measures outlined in the budget are supporting the Albanese Labor government's economic plan? How is our plan and the recent budget helping to deliver record employment growth, lift incomes, build a more prosperous and resilient economy and cleaning up the mess left behind by those opposite?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Walsh for her question and for her excellent chairing of the Senate Economics Committee.</para>
<para>The Albanese Labor government's recent May budget was, indeed, a significant step in laying the foundation for a stronger economy into the future. It was a budget that targeted cost-of-living relief. It targeted Medicare and the care economy. It looked at inclusion and equality. It focused on growth in energy, technology, small business and, of course, and importantly, under my portfolio as the Minister for Finance, responsible budget management and, more broadly, responsible economic management. It's a budget that was about jobs, about growth and about fairness.</para>
<para>We've seen record employment growth, with wages growing faster and more people getting wage rises since we came to office. Our plan and the recent budget have helped to deliver record employment growth, lifting incomes and building a more prosperous and resilient economy. We have seen wages grow by 3.7 per cent over the year to March quarter, the fastest growth in over a decade. It's unsurprising, considering it was a deliberate design feature of the former government's economic architecture to keep wages low. We've also seen 60 per cent of jobs record a higher wage rise than the year before—the highest proportion on record and around double the pre-pandemic average. This is not by accident but by design, because our policy isn't to keep wages low like those opposite. It's a testament to our commitment to not only create jobs but also ensure that these jobs are well paying and secure. You can see that the single biggest investment in the budget was in our aged-care workforce to ensure that they receive the wage increases that they deserve for the work that they do, caring for elderly Australians. We also had our $14.6 billion cost-of-living package, with support around energy bills, reducing out-of-pocket health costs, income support payments and the single biggest increase in Commonwealth rent assistance. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that comprehensive response. It's clear that the Albanese Labor government's economic plan and the recent budget are delivering significant benefits for all Australians. Can the minister further elaborate on how the government is supporting businesses and industries to grow and innovate, particularly in sectors like energy and technology, and how these initiatives are contributing to job creation and to economic growth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Walsh for that supplementary. As I said in my earlier answer, our growth agenda was a key part of the May budget. And those opportunities are there, of course, in the energy transition, securing cleaner and cheaper energy, a cleaner energy future, and the jobs that will drive that transition in technology and, of course, in our support for small business.</para>
<para>Our economic plan includes a range of measures designed to foster innovation, boost productivity and create well-paid secure jobs. We are investing billions in the National Reconstruction Fund, targeting industries of the future, such as hydrogen, to drive economic growth and create new jobs. Furthermore, we're investing in the skills and capacities of our people, with policies like fee-free TAFE and vocational training, to ensure that our workforce is equipped with the skills needed for the jobs of the future. These investments, amongst others, are part of our commitment to supporting business and industry. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Walsh, second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you again, Minister, for another comprehensive response. The measures you've outlined are indeed making a significant difference in the lives of Australians. Can the minister further elaborate on the government's actions to alleviate cost-of-living pressures for Australians, and could you also shed light on alternative approaches to these crucial measures and the impact those approaches are having on Australian households?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Walsh for the supplementary. We are acutely aware of those cost-of-living pressures facing many Australians, which is why finding ways to ease cost-of-living pressures without adding to inflation was one of the key priority areas of focus in the May budget. In addition to those areas I've already mentioned, the government has acted decisively in the area of housing, bringing together states and territories through national cabinet to look at what we can do to make sure that we are making a difference where we can, where the Commonwealth has responsibilities, to ease a real area of pressure for many Australians, and that is around housing supply and making sure we're working with states and territories to get as much affordable housing supply and affordable rental housing supply in place as soon as possible. As we come to the end of this sitting fortnight, I again urge those standing in the way of the Housing Australia Future Fund to get behind it and support it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Members Of Parliament: Staff</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher. I refer the minister to section 4.1 of the Prime Minister's Code of Conduct, which states that ministers must, and I quote:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… take all reasonable steps to ensure that they do not mislead the public or the Parliament.</para></quote>
<para>Minister, given you have clearly misled the Senate regarding your knowledge of sexual assault allegations prior to them being made public, are you not in breach of section 4.1 of your own government's ministerial code of conduct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Se</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>nator GALLAGHER (—) (): The answer to that is no. I refer Senator Birmingham to the statement that I made to this chamber on the first sitting day of this fortnight, when I addressed this question comprehensively. I can read it out for colleagues across the Senate again. I said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At Senate estimates on 4 June 2021, the then Minister for Defence, Senator Reynolds, said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'I know where this started.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">She went on to say:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'I was told by one of your senators two weeks before about what you were intending to do with the story in my office. Two weeks before.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I was shocked at the assertion made by Senator Reynolds, with the clear implication that I was responsible for or had some involvement with making that story public. That was not true. It was never true. I responded to that allegation by saying:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'No-one had any knowledge.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I explained that to Senator Reynolds in a wideranging private meeting that night, where several matters were discussed. I informed Senator Reynolds that I'd been given a heads-up about the allegations in the days before they became public, an explanation she accepted at the time, some two years ago. In fact, Senator Reynolds even said so on the record in Senate estimates that same night:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'I would like to say, in relation to the matters raised before the dinner break, Senators Wong, Gallagher and I had a very respectful discussion during the dinner break, and they've assured me they were not involved in that matter becoming public. I accept their assurance.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I repeat, she said:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">'… they've assured me they were not involved in that matter becoming public. I accept their assurance.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This proves that Senator Reynolds knew that the context of our exchange that evening was around whether I was involved in that matter becoming public—and I was not. Senator Reynolds and Senator Ruston—</para></quote>
<para>who also attended that meeting—</para>
<quote><para class="block">have known that for two years and have never since raised a concern about that with me.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a first supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, what you conveniently omitted from that extract of your statement was the fact that you had been provided with information and knowledge prior to it becoming public. Section 5.1 of the same ministerial code of conduct says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Ministers are required to provide an honest and comprehensive account of their exercise of public office … in response to any reasonable and bona fide enquiry by a member of the Parliament …</para></quote>
<para>Minister, why have you consistently refused to live up to that standard by denying the reality that you did mislead the Senate?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I may have misheard Senator Birmingham there, but I did say as part of my statement that I informed Senator Reynolds that I had been given a heads-up about the allegations in the days before they became public, an explanation she accepted at that time, some two years ago.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>67</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Finance</title>
          <page.no>67</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the censure of the Minister for Finance as circulated in the chamber:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) that the Albanese Government promised before the last election, and on numerous occasions since, that it would display a new era of integrity and transparency, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) ministerial accountability to this Chamber is a cornerstone of our Parliamentary process and an essential responsibility of all Ministers of the Crown; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (b) censures the Minister for Finance for:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (i) stating at Senate Estimates on 4 June 2021 that "no one had any knowledge" of an alleged sexual assault in Parliament House before those allegations became public on 15 February 2021.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (ii) subsequently telling the Senate on 13 June 2023 that "I was provided with information in the days before the allegations were first reported."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iii) continually refusing to acknowledge this blatant and wilful act of misleading the Senate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">      (iv) failing to take responsibility for misleading the Senate by appropriately apologising and correcting the record.</para></quote>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice of motion standing in my name, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely, a motion to give precedence to a motion of censure of the Minister for Finance, Senator Gallagher.</para></quote>
<para>The facts are clear, Senator Gallagher has misled the summit.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, please resume your seat. Order on my right! Senator Birmingham, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The facts are clear: Senator Gallagher has misled this Senate. Despite being given ample opportunity over the last two weeks to acknowledge that reality and to do the right thing by appropriately apologising and appropriately correcting the record, Senator Gallagher has instead obfuscated, avoided and outright refused to acknowledge that reality.</para>
<para>The facts are very clear. At Senate estimates on 4 June 2021, Senator Gallagher stated that no-one had any knowledge of an alleged sexual assault in Parliament House before those allegations became public on 15 February 2021. That was a statement made in a tone full of indignation. 'How dare you!' Senator Gallagher said at the time she made that statement. Then last week, on 13 June, Senator Gallagher confirmed:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I was provided with information in the days before the allegations were first reported …</para></quote>
<para>That was not, as Senator Gallagher just said then, a 'heads-up'—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's correct.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>but 'information'. Having said that no-one had any knowledge, she then acknowledged that, indeed, she had been provided with information. This is an open-and-shut case of misleading this Senate and this parliament. This debate right now, and many of the questions over the last two weeks, could have been avoided had Senator Gallagher simply acknowledged this blatant act of misleading the Senate. It could have been—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, please resume your seat. Order in the chamber, particularly on my right! Senator Birmingham, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It could have been avoided had Senator Gallagher taken responsibility for misleading the Senate by appropriately apologising and correcting the record. Those opposite continue to deny that there was—</para>
<para>Hono urable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, I have just called the chamber to order. That includes you.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart! Order across the chamber! Senator Hughes, you are being disorderly and disrespectful.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Don't take my word for the fact that the misleading is there and is clear for all to see; take the analysis that has been repeated time and time again across the press gallery. Last night David Crowe was crowned as the latest press gallery journalist of the year. What has he written? Quote: 'Katy Gallagher misled parliament'. A further quote is 'Gallagher's own words show how she misled a Senate committee in June 2021'. Phillip Coorey, from the <inline font-style="italic">Financial Review</inline>—finance minister Katy Gallagher was exposed 'as misleading parliament'. Indeed, I can quote some of the longest serving journalists who have covered politics in this country. Paul Kelly—quote: 'It is obvious Gallagher misled the parliament.' How about Michelle Grattan, then? Gallagher's claim 'was wrong, and therefore misled parliament'. Journalist after journalist and observer after observer have all come to the same conclusion based on the same facts, and that conclusion is that Senator Gallagher misled this parliament.</para>
<para>Why does this matter? As Senator Gallagher herself said to the Senate, amongst the many hundreds of questions that she sought to ask over this matter—she said to Senator Reynolds: 'You have a responsibility to the Senate.' Senator Gallagher, you too have a responsibility to the Senate, and what is that responsibility—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I am not going to constantly interrupt senators on their feet to call the chamber to order. Senator Birmingham, I also remind you to make your remarks to the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What is that responsibility to the Senate? It is, as the Prime Minister's Code of Conduct for Ministers says at section 4.1, to 'take all reasonable steps to ensure that they do not mislead the public or the parliament'. Senator Gallagher says that she has always acted ethically, but an ethical approach would be, firstly, to not mislead. An ethical approach would be, secondly, to own up if you have misled, to apologise if you have misled and to appropriately correct the record if you have misled. Senator Gallagher has failed on each and every one of those tests.</para>
<para>These are serious issues, and there are associated issues that go to questions of how the tragedy of an alleged sexual assault was politicised, but those matters are not before us today. It is the simple issue of misleading the Senate. No matter the views of senators on other matters, this Senate should not stand for being misled. It should send a message clearly by censuring Senator Gallagher.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>For the last two weeks we have seen the opposition trying to blame everybody else for their own shortcomings rather than take responsibility for their actions or their failure to act. Senator Birmingham conveniently wants us to not remember what this is about. We remember what this is about and so do people around the country.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Rennick</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a private matter.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't know that an alleged rape is a private matter, Senator. You may think that. A Liberal staffer made an allegation that she was raped in a Liberal minister's office, metres from a Liberal prime minister's office, and instead of dealing with these issues appropriately, instead of taking a long, hard look at themselves, they just tried to point the fingers at others. What is worse—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again, the comments across the chamber are disorderly and disrespectful. I am asking you to either listen in silence or leave the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those opposite seek to punish Ms Higgins. They seek to punish her supporters. And they seek to punish anyone in this place who sought to ask reasonable questions of them.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Colbeck. I have just called the chamber to order. Senator Urquhart?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Urquhart</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>[inaudible] withdraw that imputation on Senator Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, I did not hear the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart! I'm dealing with it. Senator Hughes, I did not hear what was said, but, in the interests of this debate, particularly, and the good order of the chamber, I would ask you to withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hughes</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In order to not politicise, I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hughes. Minister Wong.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, we need to remember what this is about. It's about the wellbeing of a young woman who bravely stood up—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order. Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and spoke out, whose employer, the Morrison Liberal government, let her down—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister Wong, please resume your seat. Order! The disorder on my left is disrespectful. Senator Wong is entitled to be heard in silence.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>a young woman who bravely stood and told her story, whose employer let her down, in the days, weeks and months that followed the allegation she reported to them. After two years, when the government and party she served did nothing, Ms Higgins made the courageous decision to stand up and speak out. Those allegations were made public on Ms Higgins's own terms. Now, she knew—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>when she came forward that she would become a political target. And we have seen that, this fortnight. But she did it anyway, because she was determined to change the culture in this building, to make it a better place for other women, and she has.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Her courage and her selflessness helped start a national reckoning. It helped lead to the Jenkins report. It helped this government to set the standard and implement Respect@Work.</para>
<para>And who was spearheading these reforms? No-one opposite. They let the <inline font-style="italic">Respect@Work</inline> report gather dust on Mr Porter's desk. They dragged their feet and failed to act on key recommendations. It is Senator Gallagher who has led these reforms with her usual integrity and conviction. And these reforms have made a difference. But you know what? It will take all of us to ensure they actually have an effect. It will take reflection, and it will take taking responsibility for change.</para>
<para>But, regrettably, what has been demonstrably clear this last fortnight is that what has not changed is the attitude of too many of those opposite. We've seen that in their behaviour this fortnight. Too many of them have learnt nothing from the national reckoning of two years ago. The very same members of the opposition who were at the centre of events years ago—the very same members of the opposition who have dodged questions, have carefully chosen their language and evaded scrutiny, and have never been transparent about their knowledge and action—are now pointing the finger at others. It's a desperate attempt to launder their reputation—a desperate attempt to rewrite history by peddling false accusations about others. People opposite are willing to use the private text messages of an alleged victim-survivor of sexual assault, in this chamber for their own political purposes. I've seen a lot of things—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've seen a lot of things, but that was a new low.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cash.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All of that they would rather do than to take responsibility for their own shortcomings—to reflect on what they might have done differently. Instead, they've sought to punish Ms Higgins and her supporters.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ruston!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>They've sought to punish people who sought to ask reasonable questions of them about their knowledge and their action. Well, the events of last week, whether they concern Ms Higgins or others, including another senator, show once again—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESI</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Minister Wong. Order on my left! I should not have to constantly call for order. You are being disrespectful. Minister Wong, please continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The events of this fortnight show: if anything, there are questions to be answered on the other side. But, more importantly, there's the message that has been sent by the behaviour of those opposite to women around this country about how they will be treated should they make an allegation of sexual assault. Those opposite should consider their actions and the responsibilities they bear. And with that, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the motion be now put.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be put.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:14]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>29</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the suspension motion as moved by Senator Birmingham be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:17]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>30</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Antic, A.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>72</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Indigenous Australians</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion to provide for the consideration of general business notice of motion No. 266, relating to the Voice to Parliament, as circulated. For the information of senators, the motion provides that my general business notice of motion be considered immediately and have precedence over all other business until determined.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice standing in my name, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to provide that a motion relating to the consideration of general business notice of motion No. 266 may be moved immediately.</para></quote>
<para>Once again, the government has chosen to reorder Senate business to eliminate time allocated to One Nation to debate legislation or other matters of importance. Small parties like One Nation are only allocated a small amount of private senators' and general business time each year. For the government, with the support of the Greens, the coalition and crossbenchers like Senator David Pocock, to consistently remove our time, which has been agreed upon by negotiation months in advance, is unacceptable. That's why the Senate should support this suspension of standing orders and deal with my motion now. How you're treating One Nation is how you're treating the Australian people. You're making promises and agreements and you're not staying true to your word.</para>
<para>It raises an obvious question: what are you trying to hide from? Is it that you don't want the Senate to decide whether the Minister for Indigenous Australians has misled the Australian people on the powers of the Voice to Parliament? Labor are having a lot of trouble keeping their Voice messages straight. They're under enormous pressure to come clean on what they're planning for the Voice, because the Australian people want details. The Australian people deserve these details. It's not reasonable to demand they approach such a monumental change without knowing the details and their implications.</para>
<para>As I have already revealed in this parliament on several occasions, the potential implications are as disturbing as they are profound: a minority of Australians paying half income tax based on race; a minority of Australians having exclusive rights to beaches, national parks, land and water resources and charging fees for access based on race—and this has already happened; seats in parliament reserved exclusively for a minority of Australians based on race, which was one of the outcomes of the Indigenous meetings that they've had; and the creation of a state from land under native title exclusively for a minority of Australians based on race. Labor cannot deny that these and other demands have been raised by Indigenous groups and organisations in discussions led by the previous government following the release of the Uluru statement. It cannot be denied that these and other demands would effectively make the vast majority of Australian second-class citizens in their own country based on race. Try as they might, Labor can't deny the Voice's capacity to make these demands according to the wording of the Prime Minister's constitutional amendment. Labor can't even get their facts straight on whether the Voice could demand that the date of Australia Day be changed.</para>
<para>Earlier this week, the minister for Indigenous Australians in the other place said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I can tell you what the Voice will not be giving advice on. It won't be giving advice on parking tickets. It won't be giving advice on changing Australia Day.</para></quote>
<para>This contradicts Senator Watt's statement in this chamber the previous week:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Voice will have the capacity to decide for itself what matters it makes representations on …</para></quote>
<para>So who's telling the truth? According to the experts, Senator Watt is right and Minister Burney is wrong. Minister Burney may claim disinterest in the so-called culture wars, but she can't offer any guarantee the Voice will show the same disinterest. Minister Burney may claim interest in closing the gaps, but she can't offer any compelling evidence that the Voice could or would achieve this.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister this week tried hard to downplay the powers of the Voice, and no wonder. Some of the more excitable and extreme activists on his own hand-picked Referendum Working Group have gone off script and shown us the enormous potential power they expect the Voice to have. Where does the truth lie? It's not a truth that we're likely to hear before the referendum, and that's why Australians must vote no.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be now put.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:29]<br />(The Deputy President—Senator McLachlan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>37</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Green, N. L.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Payman, F.</name>
                <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                <name>Polley, H.</name>
                <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Scarr, P. M.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                <name>White, L.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>3</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Babet, R.</name>
                <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Original question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>74</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2023-2024, Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2023-2024, Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2023-2024</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7024" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r7025" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation Bill (No. 2) 2023-2024</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7026" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Appropriation (Parliamentary Departments) Bill (No. 1) 2023-2024</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>DEPUTY PRESIDENT (): In accordance with the order agreed to yesterday, I will now put the questions required to conclude consideration of severable bills. I will first deal with the Appropriation Bill (No. 1) 2023-2024 and related bills. The question is that the bills be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is now that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7020" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is now that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill now be passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6993" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>DEPUTY PRESIDENT (): The question is now that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>74</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7021" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>74</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment on sheet 2027 be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Australian Gree</inline> <inline font-style="italic">ns' </inline> <inline font-style="italic">circulated </inline> <inline font-style="italic">second reading amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) in his second reading speech, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Defence, Richard Marles MP, stated this bill would allow Australia to take 'the first legislative step in support of Australia's acquisition of conventionally armed nuclear-powered submarines',</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) there are significant environmental, health, security and social risks associated with every facet of the nuclear industry and these risks disproportionately impact First Nations peoples and their lands,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) nuclear weapons, nuclear accidents or attacks on reactors all pose unacceptable risks of catastrophic consequences for humans and the environment,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the inquiry into this bill was pushed through the Senate without adequate time for proper consultation, scrutiny and transparency, and no public hearings, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) AUKUS undermines Australia's sovereignty and under AUKUS, Australia would be the only non-nuclear weapons State to have nuclear powered submarines; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) agrees that this bill is the first step in the largest nuclear program in Australian history, which is strongly opposed by millions of Australians, the peace and environment movements and a broad range of unions, including the Electrical Trades Union and the Australian Manufacturing Workers' Union, a former Labor Prime Minister, a former Labor Foreign Minister, the Queensland Labor State Conference as well as former senior military officials".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Could I ask that our support be noted, please. We won't call a division.</para>
<para>Original question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is now that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I ask that the Australian Greens' position as opposing the second reading and third reading of the Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023 be recorded.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I also seek to have my vote on the Defence Legislation Amendment (Naval Nuclear Propulsion) Bill 2023 recorded.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As being opposed?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Thorpe</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Definitely.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Excise Tariff Amendment (Product Stewardship for Oil) Bill 2023, Customs Tariff Amendment (Product Stewardship for Oil) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r7032" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Excise Tariff Amendment (Product Stewardship for Oil) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r7031" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Product Stewardship for Oil) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment on sheet 1996 be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Australian Greens' </inline> <inline font-style="italic">circulated </inline> <inline font-style="italic">second reading amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) is of the opinion that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) building a circular economy is a critical factor in tackling climate change,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) voluntary measures and incentives have had limited success in promoting a circular economy, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) incentives for oil product stewardship will achieve 65% as the maximum feasible collection rate; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) support mandatory design standards and national targets for product stewardship schemes; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) provide clarity on how the amendments to these bills and related legislation that impact product stewardship schemes, inform and support a circular economy trajectory".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again, I ask that our support for that second reading amendment be noted, please. I won't call a division.</para>
<para>Original question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>287062</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills now be passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Protecting Worker Entitlements) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>76</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7010" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Fair Work Legislation Amendment (Protecting Worker Entitlements) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>76</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We are now dealing with opposition amendments on sheets 1940 to 1946. I understand Senator Askew will seek leave to put some different views from senators at the end. No? Okay, I think other senators might seek leave. Then we might put that particular amendment by itself, because we need to check that it doesn't alter the overall vote. So the question is that these amendments be agreed to.</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">O</inline> <inline font-style="italic">pposition's</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<para>SHEET 1940</para>
<quote><para class="block">1) Page 3 (after line 8), after clause 3, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Review of operation of unpaid parental leave amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause a review to be conducted of the operation of the amendments made by Schedule 2 to this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting the matters that may be considered when conducting the review, the review must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) consider whether the operation of the amendments made by Schedule 2 is appropriate and effective; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) identify any unintended consequences of the amendments made by Schedule 2; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) consider whether amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline>, or any other legislation, are necessary to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) improve the operation of the amendments made by Schedule 2; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) rectify any unintended consequences identified under paragraph (b).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The review must start as soon as practicable after the end of the period of 6 months after the commencement of Schedule 2.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The persons who conduct the review must give the Minister a written report of the review within 3 months of the commencement of the review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Minister must cause a copy of the report of the review to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the Minister receives the report.</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1941</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 2, item 49, page 11 (lines 11 to 13), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">49 Subsection 74(3C)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the subsection, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3C) If any of the leave covered by the notice is to be taken under section 72A, the notice must specify:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the total number of days (<inline font-style="italic">flexible days</inline>) of flexible unpaid parental leave that the employee intends to take in relation to the child; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the intended start and end dates of the leave, or each period of the leave.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 51, page 11 (lines 18 and 19), omit the item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">51 Subsection 74(4) (heading)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "<inline font-style="italic">72</inline>", substitute "<inline font-style="italic">72A</inline>".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, items 53 to 56, page 11 (line 23) to page 12 (line 8), omit the items, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">53 Subsection 74(4)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "72", substitute "72A".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">54 At the end of subsection 74(4)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note: Whether or not it is practicable for the employee to advise the employer of any changes to the intended start and end dates of the leave will depend on the employee's personal and family circumstances. For example, it may not be practicable for the employee to advise the employer of any changes to the intended start and end dates of the leave where the employee experiences a health issue, a pregnancy complication or an unexpected change in the employee's child care arrangements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">55 Subsections 74(4A) to (4C)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the subsections.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 8, item 1, page 32 (line 7), omit "or (4B)".</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1942</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 2, page 19 (after line 19), at the end of Division 10A, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">116F Pecuniary penalty orders</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A court must not make a pecuniary penalty order against an employer for a contravention of a civil penalty provision that relates to a contravention of this Division if the conduct constituting the contravention was in accordance with binding advice given by or on behalf of the Commissioner of Taxation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, Part 1, page 19 (after line 19), at the end of the Part, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2A Subsection 546(1) (before the note)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Note 1: Pecuniary penalty orders cannot be made in relation to certain conduct that contravenes Division 10A of Part 2-2 (see section 116F).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2B Subsection 546(1) (note)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "Note:", substitute "Note 2:".</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1943</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, Part 2, page 20 (after line 21), at the end of the Part, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 After subsection 739(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) The FWC must not deal with a dispute to the extent that the dispute is about the operation of a Commonwealth Act or instrument relating to superannuation.</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1944</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 5, page 22 (after line 25), at the end of the Schedule, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 At the end of section 324</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) If the deductions are for amounts as varied from time to time, any variation that increases the amount of one or more of the deductions must be authorised in writing by the employee.</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1945</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 6, item 9, page 26 (line 28), omit "and bonuses", substitute ", bonuses and casual loading but excluding any other monetary allowance, loading or other separately identifiable amount".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 6, item 13, page 27 (line 26), omit "and bonuses", substitute ", bonuses and casual loading but excluding any other monetary allowance, loading or other separately identifiable amount".</para></quote>
<para>_____</para>
<para>SHEET 1946</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, Part 1, page 19 (after line 19), at the end of the Part, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Taxation Administration Act 1953</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2C Subsection 255-5(2) in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "The Commissioner", substitute "Subject to section 255-6, the Commissioner".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2D At the end of Subdivision 255-A in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">255-6 Commencing certain proceedings relating to superannuation guarantee charge</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proceedings cannot be commenced under subsection 255-5(2) to recover an amount of a *tax-related liability of yours that is superannuation guarantee charge payable under the <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation Guarantee (</inline><inline font-style="italic">Administration) Act 1992</inline> if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a person has applied for an order under Division 2 of Part 4-1 of the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Work Act 2009</inline> in relation to a contravention, or alleged contravention, by you of a civil remedy provision within the meaning of that Act that relates to a contravention of Division 10A of Part 2-2 of that Act; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) your *superannuation guarantee shortfall in respect of which the superannuation guarantee charge is imposed includes an *individual superannuation guarantee shortfall for an employee to whom the contravention, or alleged contravention, wholly or partly relates; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the proceedings for the order have not been finally disposed of or discontinued.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:44]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Cadell, R.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Kovacic, M.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>Nampijinpa Price, J. S.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J. W.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—President, could it please be noted on the record that I support the opposition amendments on sheet 1942 and sheet 1943.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We will note that. I will now deal with the amendments circulated by Senator Hanson on sheet 2024. In relation to amendment (3) on sheet 2024, the question is that schedule 6 stand as printed.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Pauline Hanson's One Nat</inline> <inline font-style="italic">ion</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> opposed schedule </inline> <inline font-style="italic">6</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> in the following terms—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 6, page 23 (line 1) to page 28 (line 33), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining amendments on sheet 2024 be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Pauline </inline> <inline font-style="italic">Hanson's One Nation</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'s</inline> <inline font-style="italic"> circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Title, page 1 (lines 2 and 3), omit "and the law relating to long service leave in the coal mining industry".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 8), omit the table item.</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator</name>
    <name.id>300639</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>TYRRELL (—) (): by leave—I wish to record our position on those amendments: sheet 1946, support; sheet 1945, against; sheets 1944, 1943, 1942 and 1941, support.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Once again, I remind senators to pay attention.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read third time.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>President, I'm just wondering if you could perhaps, to assist the chamber, ask senators to stay around so we don't have to do four-minute divisions.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I'm not a babysitter. Senators are free to have meetings in their offices and do whatever else is required of them.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Child Care Subsidy) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r7033" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Family Assistance Legislation Amendment (Child Care Subsidy) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Vocational Education and Training Regulator (Data Streamlining) Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>79</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6990" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">National Vocational Education and Training Regulator (Data Streamlining) Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>79</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:56]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>44</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Watt, M. P.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>3</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I. (Teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>80</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6992" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility Amendment (Miscellaneous Measures) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>80</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will now deal with the committee of the whole amendment circulated by the Australians Greens, which is on sheet 1939. The question is that the amendment on sheet 1939 be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">A</inline> <inline font-style="italic">ustralian Greens circulated amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 4 (after line 3), after item 6, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6A At the end of Part 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8A Prohibited financial assistance</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Financial assistance must not be provided under this Act if it would:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) directly finance the extraction of coal or natural gas; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) directly finance the construction of pipeline infrastructure primarily for the extraction of natural gas; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) directly finance the logging of native forests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">native forest</inline> does not include a plantation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">plantation</inline> means an intensively managed stand of trees that is created by the regular placement of seedlings or seed.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:01]<br />(The President—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Allman-Payne, P. J.</name>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Pocock, B.</name>
                  <name>Pocock, D. W.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Shoebridge, D.</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J. A.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, P. S.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Askew, W. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                  <name>Babet, R.</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A.</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P. L.</name>
                  <name>Liddle, K. J.</name>
                  <name>Lines, S.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M.</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                  <name>Payman, F.</name>
                  <name>Polley, H.</name>
                  <name>Pratt, L. C.</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M. I.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G.</name>
                  <name>Stewart, J.</name>
                  <name>Tyrrell, T. M.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E.</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                  <name>White, L.</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ALLMAN-PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>298839</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The Greens would like their dissent recorded, please.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVID POCOCK</name>
    <name.id>256136</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I also note that I would have voted against it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I also oppose that.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Special Recreational Vessels Amendment Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>81</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6994" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Special Recreational Vessels Amendment Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll first deal with Senator Thorpe's second reading amendment on sheet 1964. The question is that the second reading amendment be agreed to.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">Senator Thorpe</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s circulated amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate calls on the Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) pursue reform to ensure that special recreational vehicles (SRVs, otherwise known as 'superyachts') are required to pay adequate additional tax for mooring in Australian waters; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) ensure that economic benefits from SRVs are shared with the broader community, including First Nations groups, whose sovereign lands and waters the 'superyachts' benefit from accessing".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>81</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort) Bill 2023, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2023, Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2023</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6985" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort) Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6983" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy Bill 2023</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6984" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Financial Services Compensation Scheme of Last Resort Levy (Collection) Bill 2023</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>PRESIDENT (): I will first deal with the second reading amendment circulated by Pauline Hanson's One Nation, which is on sheet 2025. The question is that the second reading amendment be agreed to.</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">Pauline Hanson</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s One Nation</inline> <inline font-style="italic">'</inline> <inline font-style="italic">s</inline> <inline font-style="italic">circulated amendment—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add ", but the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) calls on the Assistant Treasurer, Mr Stephen Jones, to honour his commitment given to victims of the Sterling First financial fraud that managed investment funds would be included in this bill; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) notes the failure of this Government to include provision in this bill for historical cases of banking fraud, including those for which evidence was taken during the Senate Select Committee on Lending to Primary Production Customers and the Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry".</para></quote>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that these bills be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining stages of the bills be agreed to and the bills be now passed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>82</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity, I present the final report of the committee.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, I present Human Rights scrutiny report 7 of 2023 and the committee's annual report for 2022.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, Perth Mint and Commonwealth Regulatory Compliance Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Membership</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Substitute member: Senator McKim to replace Senator Shoebridge for the committee's inquiry into the provisions of the Migration Amendment (Strengthening Employer Compliance) Bill 2023</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Shoebridge</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Perth Mint — Select Committee —</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senators Brockman, Cox, Payman, Reynolds, Dean Smith and Sterle</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Allman-Payne, Antic, Askew, Bilyk, Birmingham, Bragg, Cadell, Canavan, Cash, Chandler, Ciccone, Colbeck, Davey, Dodson, Duniam, Faruqi, Fawcett, Green, Grogan, Hanson, Hanson-Young, Henderson, Hughes, Hume, Kovacic, Liddle, McDonald, McGrath, McKenzie, McKim, McLachlan, Nampijinpa Price, O'Neill, O'Sullivan, Paterson, Payne, Barbara Pocock, Polley, Pratt, Rennick, Rice, Roberts, Ruston, Scarr, Sheldon, Shoebridge, Marielle Smith, Steele-John, Stewart, Urquhart, Walsh, Waters, Whish-Wilson and White</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>83</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Days and Hours of Meeting</title>
          <page.no>83</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Senate, at its rising, adjourn till Monday, 31 July 2023, at 11 am, or such other time as may be fixed by the President or, in the event of the President being unavailable, by the Deputy President, and that the time of meeting so determined shall be notified to each senator; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) leave of absence be granted to every member of the Senate from the end of the sitting today to the day on which the Senate next meets.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the address-in-reply will be presented to the Governor-General at Government House on Monday 31 July 2023.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 16:10</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>