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<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2021-11-23</date>
    <parliament.no>1</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>0</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Tuesday, 23 November 2021</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Slade Brockman</span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">)</span> took the chair at 12:00, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Member for Casey</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to inform the Senate that this morning the Speaker of the House, the member for Casey, Mr Tony Smith, submitted his resignation as Speaker to the Governor-General, as he indicated in the last sitting period that he would do. Being new to the role of Senate President, I had only a brief time to work with Tony as my counterpart, but that was all that was necessary to gain an appreciation of the quality that he brought to the role, not only as a facilitator of fair parliamentary debate but also as a manager of this building, its people and its varied workings. Tony became Speaker in 2015, making him the longest serving in the role since Billy Snedden, who served from 1976 to 1983. He put his personal stamp on the role by ensuring that he did not impose himself on proceedings. It should never be about the Speaker, and Tony always understood that. Tony got certain responsibilities that I didn't. He got to exercise 94(a) and also not attend party room, two things that I was slightly envious of but I'm glad I don't have! I wish to thank Tony and his office for all their support and assistance as I transitioned into the role of Senate President. Tony's corporate knowledge, judgement and support on so many matters over the past few weeks have been invaluable in my entry to the role. Although our roles differ as surely as our respective chambers do, I've noted, in particular, Tony's ability to work with parliamentarians of all parties to ensure trust in the process. It is a quality in his performance admired by many, including me, and one that I will endeavour to emulate in my role in this place. On behalf of the Senate, I wish to acknowledge his service.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LINES</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—as Deputy President, I join my remarks to those of the President. I worked with Tony after becoming Deputy President of the Senate, and I can also say that he was very inclusive. Certainly the President and I did a lot with the Speaker, and I had the honour of attending a couple of conferences with him. He was very inclusive and certainly never played the political card in any of the roles that I saw him in. I'm sad that he's going, but I wish him well in whatever he does next. I thank him particularly for supporting me as the Deputy President.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to standing order 78(3), I object to the withdrawal of the notice of motion for the disallowance of Industry Research and Development (Carbon Capture, Use and Storage Development Program) Instrument 2021, and I ask that the notice stand in my name.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It will be put in your name and it will be dealt with later in the day.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration Of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to move a motion relating to the consideration of Australian Federal Integrity Commission Bill 2021, as circulated.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent Senator Patrick moving a motion to provide for the consideration of a matter, namely a motion to provide that a motion relating to consideration of the Australian Federal Integrity Commission Bill 2021 may be moved immediately, have precedence over all other business until determined and be determined without amendment or debate.</para></quote>
<para>It has been 1,077 days since the coalition announced that they were going to bring ICAC legislation to the parliament. We've waited and waited and waited, and nothing has come. Whilst it's not normal to want to interrupt the normal running of Senate business, you reach a point where you say: 'Enough is enough. The wait has been too long.'</para>
<para>There are a number of allegations in relation to the coalition. I stress that they're allegations—I'm not going to impugn anyone—but I will just put on the record that the Australian public have had a number of concerns in respect of coalition members and ministers. There has been Mr Taylor in relation to the $80 million sale of strategic water purchases, Senator McKenzie in relation to sports rorts and Mr Dutton in relation to au pairs. We've seen Mr Joyce also involved in controversy over water purchases. We've seen Mr Frydenberg in relation to 'grassgate', Mr Fletcher in relation to a $10 million grant, Mr Sukkar in relation to issues of expenditure of public money and Mr Tudge in relation to the car park rorts. There is a whole range of affairs. We have seen the situation where Mr Porter has received money through a blind trust. That's almost unfathomable in a situation where we have openness and transparency.</para>
<para>From an integrity perspective and a confidence perspective, it's really important to make sure that the public are able to see our transactions and how we might be influenced in terms of our votes. All of that has to be on the table for people to see. Until such time as we get some form of independent commission against corruption, an Australian federal integrity commission, these concerns will linger.</para>
<para>I know there are people on the other side of the chamber who object to the various different models. They don't want public hearings. They don't want particular people included in the scope of a federal ICAC, or, indeed, certain matters relating to corruption excluded from the definition. These are all things we can debate. These are all things we can talk about and debate, but we haven't had the opportunity. It has been 1,077 days and we've not had the opportunity to do that. The Australian public have been waiting for this, so there is now urgency. There is urgency, in that we basically have to force the government to comply with their own promise.</para>
<para>To satisfy the demands of the Australian public, they said that they would introduce ICAC legislation. They made that a promise as they went into the last election. You get to a point where you say, 'Sorry, you can't have us wait any longer.' We know the difficulties and the complexities associated with these sorts of bills. Indeed, we know that these sorts of bills need to be fleshed out in committees. We've already had one, through the Greens, fleshed out in a committee. The government is basically absent without leave on this.</para>
<para>The test that an integrity commission is strong enough is that you have no referrals because no-one would dare do anything that looked like misfeasance or malfeasance or corruption or misuse of funds and those sorts of things. That's what happens when you have a really strong ICAC. If you have a weak ICAC, people still try to play at the fringes. It still allows and permits corruption, political corruption, to occur. That's why it's important that we deal with this bill today, to get the whole thing kicking along—a comprehensive bill that is endorsed by judicial officers and eminent professionals in the integrity field. I ask that the Senate support my motion to suspend standing and sessional orders.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support Senator Patrick's attempt to interrupt and vary the order of government business and business in the Senate. The government has a schedule of legislation, and the Senate has a program before it that would ordinarily have seen us and otherwise see us proceeding to debate the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill and then the Dental Benefits Amendment Bill and other legislation scheduled for today, as outlined. We do not support this move to interrupt that consideration of other government legislation.</para>
<para>It often seems that, when those opposite and those on the crossbench speak about matters in relation to the proposed Commonwealth Integrity Commission, or other names that others seek to give such entities, they do so with some belief that there is a void that exists in relation to accountability, to process, to oversight, when in fact that is quite clearly not the case. Indeed, in Australia we have already a robust, multifaceted approach to combating corruption. We have a range of existing entities in place, from the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity to the Australian Federal Police, the Commonwealth Ombudsman and the Independent Parliamentary Expenses Authority. Each of these entities exists in a manner where we are all held accountable equally to the law of the land, subject to investigation under the operations of these different entities and bodies.</para>
<para>Our government has been working to establish a Commonwealth Integrity Commission that looks to build upon this existing framework that others seem to pretend does not actually exist. That existing framework already does provide very important protections for Australians in relation to the operations and conduct of all public officials, of all law enforcement officials, of all those who are subject, as I say, to the laws of the land and to investigation by the range of entities that currently exists. Those opposite can attempt some sort of smear process out of these things. What we have said is that we want to go through the proper process.</para>
<para>The Attorney-General has released draft legislation and has received feedback on that draft legislation and is working through that feedback to ensure that any future construct in Australia builds upon the effective existing arrangements that we have in place and does so in ways that guarantee due process, proper process, for any individuals and that don't create the type of kangaroo court regimes that have been seen to operate elsewhere that destroy reputations before proper process has occurred.</para>
<para>We want to make sure, given we have such sound and robust and so many existing Commonwealth entities in place, that we build upon that legacy and that framework, we do so in a way that preserves the best elements of how they operate in terms of the thoroughness and the diligence they apply to accountability across all aspects of Commonwealth activity and we do so in a manner that ensures due and proper process is followed in relation to any matters that are considered.</para>
<para>We have boosted funding for the different agencies and indeed budgeted funding for the additional structures that are proposed to be developed and put in place. But we are not going to suggest that we should simply adopt, as Senator Patrick's motion seeks to do, in the space of an hour and a half, a model that has not been subject to the same type of rigour and thoroughness of analysis that the Attorney-General has been working through. We are going to stand very clearly by a process that ensures that something as significant as this—something which will have long-lasting implications and consequences for the way in which public officials work—has all of the appropriate safeguards and thoroughness to make sure it works as effectively as it should. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will support the suspension of standing orders motion that Senator Patrick has moved today, and indeed we would welcome a debate around establishing a national anticorruption commission. Labor is supporting this motion for the simple reason that the Senate needs to take charge of this issue—because the government isn't going to. We have had over 1,000 days since the Prime Minister made the promise that a national anticorruption commission would be put in place. The Senate and the people of Australia have waited 1,000 days, and we haven't had a response from the government other than an explanation that they're going through their processes and that they're putting some focus on the detail. Well, plenty of people have done the work, and it's in the shape of the bill that Senator Patrick is seeking to bring on today.</para>
<para>There are plenty of reasons that this eight-year-old, tired government don't want to get to a debate around a national anticorruption body today or any day leading up to the next election. It's because of the litany of scandals, rorts, waste and mismanagement that this government has presided over and because it would make them vulnerable. That's why we don't have one. We can list them. There's the Western Sydney airport land rip-off. There's the 'pork and ride' scheme. Remember that? Money appropriated by this parliament through a budget was funnelled into seats that the Treasurer held. The Treasurer of Australia gave himself four car parks after telling the people of Australia that this program was for all of them. What a load of rubbish! That's the Treasurer. We know the Prime Minister had his hands all over sports rorts, car park rorts, the Urban Congestion Fund and the Building Better Regions Fund. He's crafted the way that this money gets used for political purposes—money appropriated for public purposes and then used for political purposes.</para>
<para>When a government has its Prime Minister leading the charge, where ministers are rewarded for the misuse of money like this, is it any wonder there is no desire to bring forward a debate about a national anticorruption body? What a surprise! When ministers sacked amid scandal get recycled back into the cabinet, is it any wonder they don't want a debate about a national anticorruption body? The Leader of the Government in the Senate said, 'We've got a set program and we've got all these bills to get to.' The government's filibustering its own bills! Everyone in this place knows that. We dealt with two bills yesterday—and the government added government members to the speakers list long into the night last night—so don't come in here and say you've got all these urgent bills. You don't have a program. You're trying to cut deals left, right and centre because you're losing your own people. You lost five of your own yesterday. They left you because they don't like what's going on in the government. So don't sit here and pretend that you have a long program that we are now interfering with. What an absolute load of rubbish! If that were the case, we would be moving through the bills with the time that has been allocated for them.</para>
<para>This tired, eight-year-old government are going to an election where they are going to be asking for their second decade in power. They have no plans to govern in the national interest. They are now only governing in their own political interest, in their narrow political interest. They exist only for their own political interest, and so the Senate should allow this debate. We have to stand up for ourselves. This government doesn't comply with orders for the production of documents, doesn't answer questions on notice, refuses to be accountable, refuses to be transparent. They treat this Senate with disrespect, and at some time the Senate has to stand up for itself and go, 'You know what, if the government's not going to do its job then we will.' The people of Australia want a national anti-corruption body. They don't trust us. We have to put in place something that responds to the concerns the Australian public have. A thousand and seventy-seven days ago this Prime Minister promised—and we know he's not very good at telling the truth—to put one in place, and we are still waiting. We have the opportunity today for the Senate to take charge and to have that debate, because these guys aren't going to do it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Greens will be supporting this suspension motion because we have waited far too long to see any semblance of integrity out of this government. It was an election promise at the last election that the government would introduce a corruption watchdog. Where's the bill? Nowhere to be seen. Consultation after consultation keeps getting ignored, and they still have a weak, pathetic body that has been criticised by experts as acting like a protection racket for their own MPs rather than a watchdog to clean up politics and to genuinely dissuade corruption. It's no surprise—and I looked at the figures—because half of the cabinet have been embroiled in an integrity scandal over recent years. It is no wonder the government doesn't want to bring on a bill for a corruption watchdog. They would lose half their cabinet.</para>
<para>We passed a bill for a strong independent corruption watchdog with teeth that could hold public hearings and that would be able to have genuine coverage of the actions of members of parliament and public servants. We passed that bill in the Senate more than two years ago. The Prime Minister has been running scared in the House and he has refused to bring that bill on for debate because he knows it would work. It would be effective and it might clean up the mess that this government, the cabinet and its backbench keep creating. It's no wonder that the Prime Minister is not delivering.</para>
<para>It's very interesting to see the position of One Nation on this legislation. They abstained from the vote on my bill two years ago, and that's why it passed. Last week we saw them change their position and say, no, actually now they think a corruption watchdog is just a witch-hunt. That's yet another deal that the government has done with One Nation to benefit their own electoral outcomes and to screw the Australian people once again. I expect that today that we'll see One Nation oppose this suspension motion and oppose the bill. The government has got that sewn up—so much for this phoney war that they're having. They are still in cahoots. They vote with the government almost every single time and they are selling out the Australian public. This is why Queensland needs to get rid of Pauline Hanson from the balance of power and replace her with someone that will stand up for the interests of the people and the planet. Our Greens candidate, Penny Allman-Payne, would be absolutely marvellous.</para>
<para>Back to the corruption watchdog, our version got top marks in an independent analysis of the versions, and guess who got the worst marks for the weakest proposed model? The government's model. An independent analysis by the Centre for Public Integrity said that the government's model is so weak that it's essentially a protection racket and it's worse than nothing. Our version got top marks as a strong corruption watchdog that would do the trick, so it's no wonder that the government is running scared and won't bring it on.</para>
<para>We welcome the crossbenchers who are also progressing this issue. It's been 11 years since the Greens started calling for a federal corruption watchdog. We're the only jurisdiction that doesn't have one, and we've been at this for 11 years. It took the Prime Minister until three years ago to finally say this wasn't a 'niche issue', as he had initially described it, and agree that one's needed. But he still hasn't actually delivered on that. It took the Labor Party quite a long time to change their view, and we welcome the fact that they have now done so. We welcome the fact that Helen Haines in the House and Senator Patrick and Senator Lambie have been strong on integrity issues and are now proposing their own bill. There are a whole range of bills for a corruption watchdog on the table. The one that's not on the table is the government's version. We've been waiting for 1,077 days. It's pretty clear we're going to be continuing to wait, because this Prime Minister couldn't lie straight in bed.</para>
<para>This is yet another broken promise. This is yet another falsehood from the Prime Minister. It is clear that he never intended to table a bill for a corruption watchdog. Why on earth are they prioritising bills to allow religious discrimination to be used as a sword, not a shield? They've found the time to do that. They've found the time to prioritise bills to suppress voters; we'll be seeing that in the Senate some time this week. They've found the time to make sure that charities can't speak out once election time is on. They are silencing dissent and they are suppressing voters. They've found the time to do that. They can't find the time to bring on my bill for a strong corruption watchdog, any of the crossbenchers' bills for a strong corruption watchdog or even their own weak version. They are not committed to doing this. They have no integrity. Let's turf them out at the next election and restore some integrity to this parliament.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick's motion today flies in the face of everything that Senator Patrick stands for. I'd even accuse Senator Patrick of being a procedural wonk, in the sense that he is always a stickler for the process, yet what we see here today is Senator Patrick coming into the chamber and seeking to rearrange the business of the Senate. Senator Patrick understands, like all of us in this place, that it is the role of the government to set the agenda of the Senate and the government of the day is entitled to that privilege. So Senator Patrick coming in here and seeking to disrupt the order of business for the day really does fly in the face of everything that Senator Patrick has always said he stands for.</para>
<para>There is a time in the agenda of every parliamentary sitting week when crossbenchers and backbenchers are able to bring forward private senators' business, and Senator Patrick knows full well that the time afforded for bringing forward private senators' bills is that time. But, no, today we see him coming in here and trying to disrupt the order of business on the basis of him wanting to be able to grandstand on a particular issue. One of the other things I find really quite extraordinary in relation to this particular action that we're seeing here today is that this is about seeking to suspend standing orders to rearrange the order of business in this place. What we've seen so far is much debate around the particular matter on which Senator Patrick is seeking to suspend standing orders, but we actually haven't seen much debate around the suspension in and of itself.</para>
<para>We're sitting here and we're talking about issues of things like integrity, issues around people and parties not telling the truth, issues of corruption et cetera. It is really quite extraordinary that, while we're sitting here, sitting on the other side of the chamber is a party that's prepared to go to the next election lying to the public. Consider the irony of the fact that a member in the other place, Julian Hill, was prepared to put a post on his Facebook page and his Twitter account that called the Prime Minister a liar whilst at the same time lying to his constituents. If we really want to have a look at some of the things that are going on at the moment, we should probably start calling out some of the absolute lies.</para>
<para>Despite the fact that Mr Albanese and everybody on the other side know that they are lying about the cashless debit card, they're quite happy to continue to lie. If we're going to sit here and talk about integrity, maybe we should get a little bit of integrity in the debate that's going on. With the opportunity that I have as I'm standing here, I would like to put on the record again that the government of which I am a member, the Morrison-Joyce government, has never forced, doesn't force and never will force age pensioners onto the cashless debit card. I wonder how many times between now and the election there will be lies told by those on the other side.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, resume your seat. Senator Patrick, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Patrick</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The point of order is on relevance to the suspension.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It was getting fairly wideranging. On the point of order, Senator Lambie?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Lambie</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No. Has the minister finished?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, have you concluded?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The clock went to five minutes again. I'm happy to talk for another five minutes.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you have the call. From memory, there were two minutes left. The clerks have informed me that it was one minute 35 seconds. Senator Wong, on the point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that the minister was about to finish, so the clerks reset for Senator Lambie. Is the minister not finished? Please talk about lying more often.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, thank you. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The reality of what we are seeing here is obviously a stunt by Senator Patrick—a stunt that goes against every single grain of everything that you stand for, Senator Patrick. We are also failing to recognise the framework of protections, measures, organisations and accountability processes that already exist within the government process. For example, the Australian Commission for Law Enforcement Integrity has specialised skills to address corruption risks that face law enforcement agencies. There's the Australian Federal Police, which obviously has a very strong role to play in dealing with fraud and foreign bribery issues. There's the Commonwealth Ombudsman, which is another mechanism for investigating complaints. Other processes relate particularly to parliamentarians in relation to making sure that we deal with, for example, our expenses in an appropriate way.</para>
<para>We are absolutely committed to the integrity of this parliament. We will not be lying going into the next election, unlike others. We have a process that exists within this chamber that affords the government of the day the control of the order of business of the day. I am tremendously disappointed that Senator Patrick would seek to disrupt that. It goes against everything you stand for.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, please resume your seat. Senator Smith, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Dean Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, on the clock; I think the debate is expected to expire at 12.35 pm. The clock just went to five minutes, so I think the clock should be at a lesser time.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It has been 1,076 days since the Liberals promised us an integrity commission. It's been 1,076 days since the PM stood up and told the country that he would put in an integrity commission in this term of parliament. He told us that he was committed to getting it done. Another lie! That was on 13 September 2018. A baby born on the day the Prime Minister promised us an integrity commission would now be nearly three years of age. That baby has gone through three Christmases, and she's coming up to her fourth. She's learned to crawl, stand and walk. She's pretty much getting ready for preschool now and is probably learning to count. You know what? That baby's made more progress in a thousand days than the Liberal Party have made on their own bill! That is where we're at—a three-year-old. Shameful! It's not even a bill; it's a ghost. It's another lie!</para>
<para>The Australian people are looking at you. They're sick of your lies. They're sick of you not putting up; they're sick of you not delivering. You do not deliver! You are finished at the next election. You're gone, I can tell you. You might want to get out there with your own boots on and see what your electorates are saying. I'll tell you. You're finished! You're finished in Tasmania. I reckon your two seats there are completely gone. I look forward to running my own candidates in those seats and passing those preferences where they deserve to go—not to political liars. They're not going there. So make sure your people in Bass and Braddon enjoy their last few months, because I'm looking forward to it.</para>
<para>Minister Cash says that she can't put up her own government's bill—the bill her government has been sitting on for a thousand days—because she's scared the crossbench will embarrass her. You're correct! We are going to embarrass her. We know that it's going to be something that looks like a gummy shark—no teeth whatsoever. We know what to expect. Minister Cash wants to get away with a do-nothing bill that won't fix the problems that are so obvious to so many Australians. She's scared we might fix her bill so that it actually does something and holds you people over there accountable for your actions. How about that? You're going to put your big-boy pants on and be held accountable for your actions. My goodness! We're going to act like adults. Yes, that's what we're going to do. You say you won't introduce a toothless ICAC, because you're worried it will have some teeth. If you don't want to be embarrassed, here's an idea: introduce something that's not embarrassing for any of you. Wouldn't that be a lovely Christmas gift for us all this year? That would be just fabulous, absolutely fabulous.</para>
<para>Honestly, I have to say that you guys over there couldn't run a chook raffle, let alone parliament. I don't really need to say much of this, because that's pretty much what they're saying about you on the ground. They're saying how shameful you are. It's actually making the rest of us look shameful, your behaviour over there, your incompetence to get anything done, the promises that you fail to deliver—which you've done the whole time that you've been here. Eight years of Liberal stuff, I've had to put up with, while I've been here. You've gone from one Prime Minister to another. This is the worst one on record. I've said it out there and I will continue to say it. He's incompetent. He's not a leader. And I'm enjoying watching him and you fall apart. It's as simple as that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the debate has expired. The question is that the motion to suspend standing orders be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:40]<br />(The President—Senator Brockman)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>25</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Carr, K. J.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Gallagher, K. R.</name>
                <name>Griff, S.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Patrick, R. L.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                <name>Wong, P.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>25</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Birmingham, S. J.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Chandler, C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C. A.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z. M.</name>
                <name>Small, B. J.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Stoker, A. J.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That on Tuesday, 23 November 2021, the notices of motion proposing the disallowance of the following instruments be called on together after the placing of business and the question be put after 30 minutes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Industry Research and Development (Carbon Capture, Use and Storage Development Program) Instrument 2021 [F2021L00547];</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Industry Research and Development (Growing Australia's Cyber Skills Program) Instrument 2021 [F2021L00536]; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Industry Research and Development (Modem Manufacturing Initiative Program) Instrument 2021 [F2021L00539].</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="XW4" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The debate on the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021 was started some 2½ months ago, and I made some introductory remarks on 2 September, for those interested in following the debate or my remarks. The Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, or INSLM, is an important part of our security framework, providing the necessary checks and balances. The monitor was established some 11 years ago. The bill seeks to update the role from a part-time position, with no staff. The legislation under which the monitor operates clearly needs updating.</para>
<para>This bill has five proposals in it. It is to enable the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor to report on reviews undertaken on their own initiative, or own-motion inquiries, in standalone reports separate to the INSLM's annual reports as currently required. It will clarify the process for an INSLM review following a reference from the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. It will clarify the reporting arrangements for statutory reviews conducted by the INSLM with the performance of functions and exercise of powers, and provide current and former staff of the INSLM with appropriate protections in relation to anything done or omitted to be done by that person in good faith in the course of assisting the INSLM in performing functions or exercising power. The INSLM independently reviews the operation, effectiveness and implications of national security and counterterrorism laws. The INSLM considers whether the laws contain appropriate protections for individual rights, remain proportionate to terrorism or national security threats and remain necessary.</para>
<para>Other countries deal with these matters as well, and that is why I believe the Anderson report of the UK Investigatory Powers Review has something to offer us. In that report it is stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Public consent to intrusive laws depends on people trusting the authorities, both to keep them safe and not to spy needlessly on them.</para></quote>
<para>…   …   …</para>
<quote><para class="block">Trust in powerful institutions depends not only on those institutions behaving themselves (though that is an essential prerequisite), but on there being mechanisms to verify that they have done so. Such mechanisms are particularly challenging to achieve in the national security field, where potential conflicts between state power and civil liberties are acute, suspicion rife and yet information tightly rationed.</para></quote>
<para>…   …   …</para>
<quote><para class="block">Respected independent regulators continue to play a vital and distinguished role. But in an age where trust depends on verification rather than reputation, trust by proxy is not enough. Hence the importance of clear law, fair procedures, rights compliance and transparency …</para></quote>
<para>Suffice to say I agree, and the INSLM, the monitor, plays that very important role in our jurisdiction. So it is important that this monitor have the capacity to undertake reviews at his or her own volition, of his or her own motion. Similarly, it allows references from the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. Whilst I serve on the committee, I can at least vouch for everybody else that they take their role extremely seriously, as I would like to think that I do mine. It is something that we on the committee seek to balance up each and every time when we look at security legislation, to ensure that we get the balance right, that we protect our fellow Australians from those that would seek to harm us, whilst also ensuring that people's civil liberties are protected as much as possible. In fact, a starting point has to be the protection of individual rights and civil liberties. f they are to be in any way diluted, a very strong case needs to be made for that particular authority to be clothed with that power.</para>
<para>That is why, when from time to time such legislation comes forward, its ongoing necessity or efficacy should be monitored and considered by an independent person such as the INSLM. It's an unfortunate acronym for the person who has that title of monitor, but we all—in this place at least—know of whom we speak. The INSLM needs to review the operations. I think that is something that anybody who is genuinely concerned in this space would like to see. I'm pleased that the parliamentary joint committee has looked into this and supports these proposals and also that the government, importantly, sees the need.</para>
<para>There have been some equivocations in these areas. The previous monitor has recommended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the INSLM Act … be amended to provide for an express power for the INSLM to report on a matter or matters within the statutory mandate but more urgently or particularly than by the annual report.</para></quote>
<para>The government has accepted that recommendation. The previous INSLM also made this recommendation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the INSLM act … be amended to require a formal response by the executive government to INSLM reports to be tabled in the Parliament within 12 months of delivery of the reports.</para></quote>
<para>Interestingly enough, a further review in relation to all this came to an alternative view, and it's worth reading that in full:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The INSLM considers that 'an important part of the process begun by conducting a review and reporting, is the timely response of the government of the day'. Given the INSLM's ongoing role (compared to a Royal Commission whose role is over once it has delivered its report), the INSLM submitted that it has an interest in considering the implementation of its recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Review agrees with public stakeholders that the Government should give appropriate consideration to the recommendations of independent experts. The Government specifically established the role of the INSLM to provide independent, expert analysis to it, and, therefore, should consider that analysis and respond to it in a timely manner.</para></quote>
<para>This is the important part:</para>
<quote><para class="block">However, the Review considers it would be incongruent with the approach to Government responses to parliamentary committee reports to legislate this requirement. There is generally no requirement in legislation for the Government to respond to parliamentary committee recommendations (rather, successive governments have undertaken to respond to parliamentary committee reports, including by way of resolutions).</para></quote>
<para>That is, I think, on page 293 of that particular further review that I understand was undertaken by a Mr Dennis Richardson some time ago. When you have a look at all the competing views, it stands to reason that, with some of these matters that are or aren't in this bill, it's a matter of balance and it's a matter of judgement, and there will be men and women of good faith on both sides who would say that there should be more in this bill or there should be less in this bill.</para>
<para>At the end of the day, we have to come to a landing. We have to make a decision. Ultimately, what the Australian people want us as a government to do and which the Liberal-National government is absolutely committed to do—and which, in fairness, to reach out across the chamber, I am sure those who are in the alternate government would also be committed to do—is to seek to balance the security of our nation and the security of our individual Australians against any security attack whilst also balancing the rights and liberties of our fellow Australians. That is what this legislation seeks to do, with some other machinery provisions. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021. The Australian Greens will be supporting this bill with the amendments that have been circulated, and I thank Senator Patrick for those amendments. The Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, the INSLM, is responsible for independently reviewing the operation, effectiveness and implications of national security and counterterrorism laws. This position is absolutely critical, because this parliament has passed well over 70 counterterrorism laws in the last two decades, and often they have never been used. The INSLM is the body responsible for considering whether counterterrorism and intelligence laws contain appropriate protections for individual rights, remain proportionate to terrorism or national security threats and remain necessary. It's important that the INSLM continue to have access to all relevant materials, regardless of national security classification, and that they can continue to compel answers to questions and hold public and private hearings.</para>
<para>I'm glad that this bill is being amended by the government to provide that the INSLM is now a full-time position, as opposed to it being a part-time position beforehand. It is quite surprising that, regardless of how much intelligence and counterterrorism legislation this parliament has passed, the position of the INSLM was a part-time appointment. I'm glad to see this change in this bill—a case of better late than never, but at least it's happening. The Australian Greens are also heartened that there are clearer reporting requirements in this bill and the amendments, particularly the requirement for the Attorney-General to provide government responses to INSLM annual reports and to table them in parliament.</para>
<para>In conclusion, the Australian Greens will be supporting this bill and the amendments. It's critical that all oversight bodies and mechanisms are given the resources they need to undertake their work. The work of the INSLM is absolutely critical. Let's hope that the government actually listens to the recommendations of the INSLM, because that's going to be the real test.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm caught remarkably short today, because a lot of what I had to say to the Senate was based on the assumption that the Greens would reject the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021. Instead, I thank Senator Thorpe for her support of the bill, although it leaves me with not much to say! When she spoke, Senator Thorpe pointed out to us the need for this legislation because of the 70 counterterrorism laws that this country has enacted in the last 20 years. I don't see it as a failure that those laws have not been used; I see it as an absolute triumph. Laws act both as a deterrent and as a punishment, and I think that's very, very important to realise. Senator Abetz went through a good deal of the detail of the bill. As a man who's been on the PJCIS for a very long time, he understands the value of this extraordinary committee, and later today the chair of that committee, Senator Paterson, will take us through the real detail of the bill.</para>
<para>In the last 24 hours we've certainly had national security as a theme. It's been on the agenda as a theme, and it's a very important theme both internally in Australia and as an external activity facing external threats. In the last 24 hours we've had the high-risk terrorist offenders bill in which we balanced continuous detention orders with extended supervision orders. This is a manifestation of the flexibility that we need in order to react to any situation. Of course, once a court becomes involved, extended supervision orders can be applied to someone who's been jailed for terrorist offences and is coming out of that detention if there is a reasonable belief that the individual still holds very extreme views. The extended supervision order can be put on for three years.</para>
<para>Even before the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (High Risk Terrorist Offenders) Bill 2021, we looked at the Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure) Bill 2021. Really, that's legislation to defend ourselves against what is becoming a very common activity around the world—that is, an attack by unknown people on many occasions. But sometimes, as was pointed out to us by Senator Paterson yesterday, we know exactly who is doing this to us, why they're doing it and how they're doing it. What frightens me even more is that, where we don't know they have been, they have left the ability to turn things on and off at a time that suits them, and they will cause those activities to be turned on in a time of high crisis.</para>
<para>The number of bills that we have brought into the parliament indicates that we are dragging Australia into the 21st century, and the dragging that this government has done has been fabulous over the last year. Since 2013, even since 9/11, we have led the world. We have been very effective. We've led the world in an awful lot of counterterrorist legislation, online safety legislation and anticyber legislation, which grants to those who have to protect us day and night the tools that they need in order to protect us.</para>
<para>We recognise the new situation. We look back and we see 9/11, we see the attacks in London and we see the attacks in New Zealand; we understand the internal threat in countries. We understand the threats which are coming from an external source but are manifest in ransomware, in turning off east coast gas pipelines—which is a possibility—or water pipelines or attacking food companies. We understand all these things. We've got to move on and start recognising the new situation that we face in a much larger sense. So we're very, very good internally and we've now got to start recognising what's going on in relation to our strategic environment.</para>
<para>For 75 years we have been an extraordinary country. Through the situations that we've faced, we have enjoyed, based on our alliances—and also based on our own work and on a good deal of luck—extraordinary security and great prosperity. Now things are different. Now we have a rising power in our region. In fact, we've got a number of powers in our region: China, Russia, Iran and North Korea, all of which are rising and three of which—pick any you like—are well and truly in the Indo-Pacific, in our area. The US is certainly a mighty power and will remain a mighty power, but the US has world responsibilities and it is well and truly time that we looked after ourselves.</para>
<para>Internally, I think we are doing exactly that. The legislation that gives us power to look after ourselves internally is extraordinary, and we are having great achievements. Externally we have started far, far too late, but that doesn't matter. No government since the end of the Vietnam War has done what this coalition government has done since 2013 in relation to external defence. No-one has done as well as they've done. So, external threats are certainly one thing. We can always do better and I certainly advocate 24 hours a day that we should do better.</para>
<para>Today we continue our record of looking at legislation which is very important to us. My experience of the PJCIS gave me great faith in the processes within that tremendous committee. I wish very sincerely that we had the equivalent of the PJCIS instead of the defence subcommittee, as a bipartisan report recommended a couple of years ago, that could do in the area of strategy and national security exactly what the PJCIS does in the area of intelligence and lower-level security. And the mechanisms that surround intelligence and security in the PJCIS—that surround this process and ensure we balance the greater general good with individual rights—are what we're here today to talk about. As Senator Abetz said, 'The essence is trust,' and, as the old saying goes: trust and verify.</para>
<para>The background to this bill is that it amends the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Act 2010, known as the INSLM Act, to allow the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor to report on own-monitor inquiries in standalone reports, clarify the reporting arrangements for the monitor following statutory reviews or referrals, and the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, and provide a framework for the engagement of staff, including contractors, to assist the monitor.</para>
<para>The government is committed to ensuring Australia has a robust national security and counterterrorist framework to face internal and external threats. The Independent National Security Legislation Monitor is responsible for regularly assessing Australia's national security and counterterrorism laws to ensure that they remain appropriate to the country threat environment and that the objective of protecting national security is balanced against upholding the rights and freedoms of individuals.</para>
<para>This bill will clarify reporting arrangements for the monitor and provide a framework for the engagement of staff to assist the monitor. The bill implements recommendations made by the former monitor and by the 2019 <inline font-style="italic">C</inline><inline font-style="italic">omprehensive </inline><inline font-style="italic">r</inline><inline font-style="italic">eview of the </inline><inline font-style="italic">l</inline><inline font-style="italic">egal </inline><inline font-style="italic">f</inline><inline font-style="italic">ramework of the </inline><inline font-style="italic">n</inline><inline font-style="italic">ational </inline><inline font-style="italic">i</inline><inline font-style="italic">ntelligence </inline><inline font-style="italic">c</inline><inline font-style="italic">ommunity</inline>, which the government accepted. Passage of the bill will ensure that the monitor's enabling legislation reflects the current operation of the position and assists the monitor in the performance of this role. I recommend this bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021. I do so as one of the primary customers of the important work done by the office—as the chair of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security. At the outset, I want to pick up on a theme of some of the other contributions to this debate so far—in particular, to the last two contributions I listened to, from Senator Molan and Senator Thorpe.</para>
<para>A data point that has been bandied about in this debate is common in debates about national security legislation, and that is to refer to the number of pieces of legislation that have passed in this space. The statistic that Senator Thorpe referred to and Senator Molan echoed was 70 pieces of counterterrorism pieces of legislation that have passed in the last 20 years. Sometimes that number is higher, by incorporating a broader category of all national security legislation; sometimes it's 120 or 130 bills.</para>
<para>I'm not accusing either senator, in this case, of using that in a pejorative sense, but some people say it's almost a problem in and of itself that we have passed so many national security bills in the last 20 years. I think, to the contrary, it reflects the very different operating environment that we now exist in, the very different security environment and the different trends that we are dealing with in terrorism as well as espionage and foreign interference and other threats.</para>
<para>I think it's very important to place that number of bills in context. Yes, that's a large number of pieces of legislation, but included among them are oversight and scrutiny bills that make sure those bills are exercised proportionately and consistent with the law, and we're dealing with one of those today. I haven't done a tally—perhaps I'll ask the hardworking staff at the Parliamentary Library to do this for me—but if you counted the number of Treasury laws amendment bills passed in the last 20 years I suspect it would be a lot more than 120 or 130. I suspect, given that we deal with one almost on a weekly basis in this chamber, it would be in the many hundreds.</para>
<para>What we see in the national security space, which I'll outline in a minute, is a very robust framework of parliamentary oversight, executive oversight and independent oversight of those powers and of those bills, as it should be, because many of them are rights restrictive and we should ensure that the right balance is struck between our liberties and our safety and security. My regret is that that robust oversight framework that we have in the national security space is not replicated more widely in other areas of parliamentary life, that other areas of legislation are not subject to the rigorous scrutiny and oversight that we have in the national security space, because it is not only laws in the national security space which can restrict our rights or which impact on our freedoms or which impose costs on business and community and society; many other laws do that. What we have in the national security space is the gold standard, and we should seek to raise up other areas of public policy to that gold standard of scrutiny.</para>
<para>The Morrison government has consistently displayed a clear commitment to safeguarding Australia and the Australian people by passing many critical pieces of national security legislation, and we saw two of those bills pass through this chamber last night—the Security Legislation Amendment (Critical Infrastructure) Bill and the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (High Risk Terrorist Offenders) Bill—two very important initiatives to better secure and safeguard Australia against cyber threats in particular and to seek to deal with the problem of unreformed, recidivist, high-risk terrorist offenders whose sentences are expiring and who pose an ongoing risk to the community if they are released.</para>
<para>One of those bills, the Counter-Terrorism Legislation Amendment (High Risk Terrorist Offenders) Bill, actually demonstrates quite powerfully the importance of the INSLM itself, because it was arising out of an INSLM review and INSLM recommendations that the extended supervision order enacted by this parliament last night in that bill was proposed to fill a gap in the legislative framework. The public do often see and are often aware of those new bills and those new powers that are granted to our agencies; however, what they don't always see is that robust oversight and scrutiny process that is applied to these bills that seek to ensure that they are proportionate, that they are targeted and that they are operationally effective for our security agencies.</para>
<para>The Office of the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor is a critical contributor to that framework. It complements the work of the Inspector-General on Intelligence and Security, the PJCIS and the executive oversight to ensure that the significant powers we entrust to our agencies are subject to the scrutiny that you would expect of a liberal democracy which values freedom and the rights of the individual. The monitor is responsible for regularly assessing Australia's national security and counterterrorism laws to ensure they remain appropriate to the current threat environment and that the objective of protecting national security is balanced against upholding the rights and freedoms of individuals. In conducting their reviews, the monitor has access to all relevant material regardless of the national security classification, they can compel answers to questions, and they can hold public and private hearings.</para>
<para>This bill amends the INSLM Act to clarify the reporting arrangements for the monitor and further provides a new pressuring for the engagement of additional staff who can support the vital work of the monitor. These amendments respond to recommendations made by the immediate previous monitor, Dr James Renwick CSC SC, and are particularly important and timely when we consider the breadth and complexity of the national security threats we are responding to in this uncertain time; therefore, the legislation is required and the operational capability is required to meet those threats. These changes will also ensure that the monitor is properly equipped with the right resources to undertake their role and fulfil their obligation to ensure that our counterterrorism and national security legislation remains fit for purpose and also consistent with our international obligations. As it currently stands, the monitor can conduct own-motion reviews on specific legislative matters and must also conduct specific statutory reviews referred to it by the Attorney-General or by the Prime Minister. The Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security can also refer matters to the monitor, which the monitor may choose to take up as an own-motion inquiry.</para>
<para>When this role was established back in 2010 it was envisaged that the monitor would only undertake one review a year. The bill reflects the evolving nature of the role and would allow the monitor to report on own-motion inquiries in stand-alone reports separate to the annual reports authored by the monitor, and clarifies the review and reporting arrangements for statutory reviews, own-motion reviews and reviews conducted after referral from the PJCIS. The office of the monitor is currently supported by three permanent employees of the Attorney-General's Department. This bills provides for formalised arrangements by amending the INSLM Act to allow for the engagement of additional staff, including specialised contractors, to assist the monitor with the exercise of powers, drafting and reviewing of reports and the performance of other functions that are required.</para>
<para>The Attorney-General has made clear that the appropriate conflict-of-interest policies and practices must be developed and implemented to ensure the engagement of appropriate staff, including contractors. This is very important when you consider how critical it is for the office of the monitor to maintain its independence from any agency or organisation that may be affected by or has an interest in a particular inquiry. The Attorney-General has tasked the INSLM to develop that framework to ensure that these amendments can be implemented once passed in this place.</para>
<para>Finally, the bill brings the appropriate protections for current and former staff of the monitor in line with the arrangements for the staff of other statutory oversight office holders, such as the Commonwealth Ombudsman and the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security. These protections extend only to acts and omissions done by that person in good faith while assisting the monitor in the performance or exercise of their powers.</para>
<para>I want to personally acknowledge the importance of the office of the monitor. As chair of the PJCIS I welcome the insight and depth of knowledge the monitor has been able to provide, which ultimately assists us in our own deliberations, and it is often common for us to make recommendations consistent with those made by the INSLM. There have been four monitors since the inception of the role: Mr Bret Walker SC, the Hon. Roger Gyles AO QC, Dr James Renwick CSC SC and the current monitor, Mr Grant Donaldson SC. I thank each of them for their commitment and their professionalism in their role and pay tribute to their service to the cause of safeguarding Australia's national security interests as well as our individual rights and freedoms.</para>
<para>I commend to parliamentarians and to others who are interested in oversight of our national security architecture a recent special edition of the <inline font-style="italic">Australian </inline><inline font-style="italic">L</inline><inline font-style="italic">aw </inline><inline font-style="italic">J</inline><inline font-style="italic">ournal</inline> on national security and the law, which was edited by Dr Renwick. For those of you who are a bit more time poor: perhaps a podcast released last week by Professor Rory Medcalf of the National Security College at ANU, which interviewed Dr Renwick about that special edition. It really provides an excellent insight into the role of the INSLM and wider national security policy issues. One of the things Dr Renwick noted was the great value for money that Commonwealth taxpayers got from his time, given that theoretically he was supposed to have spent only 100 days of the year on this role but ended up spending much more. This bill will help address that issue for all current and future monitors.</para>
<para>The government acknowledges and appreciates the monitor's ongoing role in reviewing the proportionality, the operational effectiveness and the implications of our national security and counterterrorism laws. We are committed to ensuring that there is an appropriate oversight framework that ensures that agencies remain accountable and laws remain targeted. The monitor plays a critical role in ensuring the integrity of that framework. This bill underlines that commitment and ensures that the office of the monitor is appropriately resourced and equipped with fit-for-purpose enabling legislation to allow them to exercise their functions and powers effectively. I commend the bill and urge the Senate to support its passage.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank my parliamentary colleagues for their contributions to the debate on the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021. This bill reflects the government's ongoing commitment to ensuring that Australia has a robust national security and counterterrorism framework. It will assist the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, also known as INSLM, in the performance of their role, helping to ensure that Australia's counterterrorism and national security legislation remains necessary, appropriate and proportionate.</para>
<para>The bill implements recommendations made by the former monitor and the 2019 <inline font-style="italic">C</inline><inline font-style="italic">omprehensive review of the legal framework of the national intelligence community</inline> to allow the monitor to report on matters more urgently or more particularly than in their annual report. The additional amendments moved by the government will ensure appropriate reporting and staffing arrangements for the INSLM, ensuring that they are able to effectively execute their important oversight role. I will go into those some more during the committee stage, but at this stage I want to thank my colleagues across the chamber for their support of these important measures.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to this bill, and, on that very subject, I seek leave to move amendments 1 to 7 on sheet ZC104.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 3 (after line 23), after item 5, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5A Section 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Before "When", insert "(1)".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5B At the end of section 9</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor's performance of his or her functions under sections 29A (special report) or 29B (statutory review report).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, page 3 (before line 24), before item 6, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5C Subsection 11(1)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "part-time", insert "or full-time".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5D After section 11</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11A Obligation to fill vacancy as soon as practicable</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As soon as practicable after the office of Independent National Security Legislation Monitor becomes vacant, a Monitor or acting Monitor must be appointed under section 11 or 20.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5E Section 14</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14 Leave of absence</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A full-time Independent National Security Legislation Monitor has the recreation leave entitlements that are determined by the Remuneration Tribunal.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Attorney-General may grant leave of absence, other than recreation leave, to a full-time Independent National Security Legislation Monitor on the terms and conditions as to remuneration or otherwise that the Governor-General determines in writing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The Attorney-General may grant leave of absence to a part-time Independent National Security Legislation Monitor on the terms and conditions that the Governor-General determines in writing.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5F Section 15</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">15 Outside employment</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A full-time Independent National Security Legislation Monitor must not engage in paid employment outside the duties of his or her office without the Attorney-General's written consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A part-time Independent National Security Legislation Monitor must not engage in any paid employment that conflicts or may conflict with the proper performance of his or her duties without the Attorney-General's written consent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5G After paragraph 19(2)(b)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ba) if the Monitor is appointed on a full-time basis—the Monitor engages, except with the Attorney-General's written consent, in paid employment outside the duties of his or her office;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5H Paragraph 19(2)(c)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "if the Monitor", insert "is appointed on a part-time basis—the Monitor".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5J After paragraph 19(2)(c)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ca) if the Monitor is appointed on a full-time basis—the Monitor is absent, except on leave of absence granted under subsection 14(2), for 14 consecutive days or for 28 days in any 12 months; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5K Paragraph 19(2)(d)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the paragraph, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) if the Monitor is appointed on a part-time basis—the Monitor is absent, except on leave of absence granted under subsection 14(3), for 7 consecutive days or for 14 days in any 12 months.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, page 4 (after line 3), after item 7, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7AA Subsection 29(5)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit all the words after "paragraph (b)", substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament within the earlier of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 15 sitting days of that House after the day on which he or she receives the report; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 30 days after the day on which he or she receives the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 8, page 4 (lines 32 to 34), omit all the words from and including "to be presented" to and including "report", substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament within the earlier of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 15 sitting days of that House after the day on which he or she receives the report; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 30 days after the day on which he or she receives the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 8, page 5 (lines 23 to 25), omit all the words from and including "to be presented" to and including "report", substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament within the earlier of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 15 sitting days of that House after the day on which he or she receives the report; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 30 days after the day on which he or she receives the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 25), after item 8, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9A Subsection 30(6)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit all the words after "paragraph (b)", substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament within the earlier of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 15 sitting days of that House after the day on which he or she receives the report; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 30 days after the day on which he or she receives the report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 1, item 12, page 6 (after line 29), at the end of section 33, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) A person referred to in subsection (1) may only assist the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor with the written consent of the Monitor, and the Monitor may, in writing, withdraw such consent at any time.</para></quote>
<para>The amendments on sheet ZC104 will ensure appropriate reporting and staffing arrangements for the INSLM. I'll go into a little depth on each of those. The first of those two amendments would clarify that the requirement for the monitor to give emphasis to legislation that has been recently applied or considered does not apply where the monitor is conducting a statutory review or a special report. This requirement is relevant for the monitor's annual reporting function or a decision to undertake an own-initiative review, but it's not required for statutory reviews and special reports because, in a practical sense, those reports could cut across financial years. So it is really a matter of administration and organisation more than anything else.</para>
<para>The second of the amendments would allow the monitor to be appointed on a full-time basis and provide that a new monitor must be appointed as soon as reasonably practicable following the position becoming vacant. When the position was established in 2010, it was envisaged that the monitor would undertake only a single review per year. The role has since evolved, shifting from doing point-in-time assessments through annual reports to engaging in rolling reviews, including referred reviews and statutory reviews that are much more burdensome on the INSLM's time. This amendment would enable the potential for full-time appointments in the future, should such a course be necessary. It would, of course, not affect the current part-time appointment of the current monitor, Mr Grant Donaldson SC, who is appointed until November 2023.</para>
<para>There are a couple of other amendments I will touch on briefly. Amendments (3), (4), (5) and (6) would provide that monitor reports must be tabled in parliament within 15 sitting days or 30 calendar days after receipt of a report, whichever is earlier. At the moment, the requirement is for tabling to occur within 15 sitting days. These amendments are about striking a balance on getting an appropriate time frame for the release of reports.</para>
<para>Amendment (7) would provide that a person may only assist the monitor with the written agreement of the monitor and that the monitor may withdraw that agreement at any time. The purpose of this amendment is to confirm that the monitor has discretion and control in relation to staff who are assisting him or her. To support the staffing provisions to be introduced by the bill, the minister has asked the monitor to develop appropriate conflict of interest policies and practices to provide a framework for the engagement of staff, particularly where the monitor is unable to complete a review without the assistance of an employee of an agency which is either affected by, or has an interest in, a particular inquiry.</para>
<para>I will say a few things about the amendment that I understand will be moved in due course by Senator Patrick, but, for the benefit of the chamber, these are the purposes of the government's amendments to the bill.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the government amendments to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Amendment Bill 2021. The shadow Attorney-General approached the Attorney-General with a number of suggestions to improve the bill several months ago. Senator Cash has engaged constructively with Labor on those suggestions and ultimately agreed either in whole or in part to many of the amendments sought by the shadow Attorney-General. Moreover, while two of Labor's suggestions were rejected by the government, in both cases the Attorney-General agreed to workable compromises. I thank the Attorney-General for working with the opposition to improve the bill in the national interest.</para>
<para>In addition to making some minor technical but nonetheless useful changes to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Act, the amendments agreed between the government and Labor would do the following. First, the tabling requirements for reports by the independent monitor will be amended so that reports must be tabled within the earlier of 30 calendar days or 15 sitting days of receipt by the Attorney-General. This will ensure that reports by the monitor will be made public much sooner than is currently the case. Second, Australian public servants and other potential employees can be made available to the independent monitor only with the monitor's agreement, and that agreement can be revoked at any time. It is important that the monitor is independent, and is seen to be independent, of the government. That is the principle that this amendment is designed to uphold. Third, the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Act will be amended to enable the monitor to be appointed on a full-time basis. Labor supports these amendments.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) to (4) on sheet 1424 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, page 4 (after line 3), after item 7, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7A After subsection 29(5)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Attorney-General must prepare a response (a <inline font-style="italic">government response</inline>) to each recommendation, if any, in an annual report given to the Attorney-General under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The Attorney-General must give the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor within 12 months of the annual report, or the declassified annual report, being presented to each House of Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7A) If the Attorney-General considers that the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection (3), the Attorney-General must also prepare and give to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, at the same time as the government response, a version of the government response which does not contain that information (a <inline font-style="italic">declassified government response</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7B) The Attorney-General must cause a copy of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the government response; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection (3)—the corresponding declassified government response;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament on the next sitting day of that House after the day on which he or she gives the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 8, page 4 (after line 34), at the end of section 29A, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Attorney-General must prepare a response (a <inline font-style="italic">government response</inline>) to each recommendation, if any, in a special report given to the Attorney-General under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The Attorney-General must give the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor within 12 months of the special report, or the declassified special report, being presented to each House of Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) If the Attorney-General considers that the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3), the Attorney-General must also prepare and give to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, at the same time as the government response, a version of the government response which does not contain that information (a <inline font-style="italic">declassified government response</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) The Attorney-General must cause a copy of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the government response; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3)—the corresponding declassified government response;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament on the next sitting day of that House after the day on which he or she gives the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 8, page 5 (after line 25), at the end of section 29B, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) The Attorney-General must prepare a response (a <inline font-style="italic">government response</inline>) to each recommendation, if any, in a statutory review report given to the Attorney-General under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The Attorney-General must give the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor within 12 months of the statutory review report, or the declassified statutory review report, being presented to each House of Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) If the Attorney-General considers that the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3), the Attorney-General must also prepare and give to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, at the same time as the government response, a version of the government response which does not contain that information (a <inline font-style="italic">declassified government response</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) The Attorney-General must cause a copy of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the government response; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3)—the corresponding declassified government response;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament on the next sitting day of that House after the day on which he or she gives the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, page 5 (after line 25), after item 8, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8A At the end of section 30</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Government response</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) The referring Minister must prepare a response (a <inline font-style="italic">government response</inline>) to each recommendation, if any, in a report on a reference given to the referring Minister under subsection (1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) The referring Minister must give the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor within 12 months of the report on a reference, or the declassified report, being presented to each House of Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) The referring Minister must cause a copy of the government response to be presented to each House of the Parliament on the next sitting day of that House after the day on which he or she gives the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) If the referring Minister considers that the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3), the referring Minister must also prepare and give to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor, at the same time as the government response, a version of the government response which does not contain that information (a <inline font-style="italic">declassified government response</inline>).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) The referring Minister must cause a copy of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the government response; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if the government response contains information of the kind referred to in subsection 29(3)—the corresponding declassified government response;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">to be presented to each House of the Parliament on the next sitting day of that House after the day on which he or she gives the government response to the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor.</para></quote>
<para>Basically, my amendments flow from recommendations that have been made by the INSLM himself, over many different reports, and are spurred on by the Law Council, who were quite concerned about the fact that INSLM makes his reports but then they go to government and he doesn't get a response. I draw the chamber's attention to Dr James Renwick CSC, SC, who in his report No. 6 of December 2018 made reference to a Law Council submission to the PJCIS. He said in his report:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In its submission, the Law Council noted that government responses to INSLM reports, and implementation of recommendations, had been ad hoc. The Law Council recommended that the Independent National Security Legislation Monitor Act 2010 (the INSLM Act) be amended to require 'formal and prompt government response to INSLM reports (for example, within six to twelve month timeframe)'.</para></quote>
<para>The INSLM looked at that and made a similar recommendation. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The question is whether the Law Council's recommendation should be implemented. In my view it should.</para></quote>
<para>He then went on to say that it's an important part of the process of conducting a review to have timely responses from the government. He made a point of distinction between INSLM and a royal commission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… when the latter has delivered its report it is <inline font-style="italic">functus officio</inline>: its role is over and it has no role or legal 'interest' in considering implementation of its recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In contrast, I have an ongoing role which the Parliament has itself provided for, to continue to monitor counter-terrorism and national security laws.</para></quote>
<para>So he is making the point that in order to be able to continue to do his job he expects some form of response from the government.</para>
<para>I will therefore turn to describe my amendments. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to offer huge congratulations to the amazing workers at the Country Road warehouse in Truganina. Mostly women, they were earning less than the male warehouse workers doing the same work and just above the minimum wage and they decided that that just wasn't right. On strike for almost two weeks since standing up for their basic rights, I visited them on Friday to show my support. I told them I would tell their story in parliament and I am proud to do so right now. I am also proud to convey that these women this week have won their campaign and voted to support a new deal, a deal that respects their contribution to the success of Country Road; a deal that acknowledges that it is their work while everyone else is asleep that makes it possible for Country Road stores to operate. It is their work that keeps this business running. These women wanted recognition of that contribution, but they did feel disrespected and so they spoke out and they walked out.</para>
<para>Going on strike is always a last resort. It's always incredibly tough to do. The women that I met on Friday spoke of doing this for their families, to be able to support their children and also to show their children that in Australia standing up for what is right is always the right thing to do. With that determination these courageous members of the United Workers Union won an increased pay rise; more permanent ongoing jobs; same job, same pay for all workers at the warehouse and respect—respect from their families, respect from the company, respect from the community and my respect as well. I'd particularly like to give shout-out to Lydia and Kate for telling me their stories and a huge congratulations to you both.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak about the appalling state in the Northern Territory of the vaccine mandates inflicted upon Territorians by the Gunner Labor government. In the Northern Territory anybody who has a job, who has contracts, who has a business cannot work unless they're vaccinated or they are someone who works from home and never sees another human being during the course of their day. Mr Gunner said yesterday that anyone who does not support vaccine mandates are antivaxxers. This means he's calling the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the entire government antivaxxers, which is clearly not the truth. He also went on to say that anyone who gives comfort or support to anybody who argues against the vaccines is an antivaxxer. This is disgusting. This is un-Australian and this is un-Territorian. This means that he is labelling people antivaxxers if they give comfort or support to anyone who does not wish to be vaccinated. This covers thousands of individuals, including people out on Indigenous communities who have chosen not to be vaccinated and other Territorians who for various reasons have chosen not to be. There are many Territorians who choose not to be vaccinated, not because they're being belligerent, not because they're being difficult but because they have a genuine fear and terror of being vaccinated. I might feel that their fears are unreasonable and unfounded, but to them they are real. Fears and phobias are not rational or logical. Most people who are terrified of planes have never been in a plane crash, most people who are afraid of spiders have never been bitten by a spider and most people who are afraid of heights have never fallen from a great one, yet their fears are just as real.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Religious Discrimination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[inaudible] said that he would introduce legislation to protect students from expulsion because of their sexuality. He lied. We're still waiting. Instead, the Prime Minister has spent years in secret meetings with the religious Right. And what's the outcome? We still haven't found out! This is fitting because, for years, the negotiations over the religious discrimination bill have been secret and the updated text of that bill is still secret now. The only thing that hasn't been a secret is that Scott Morrison cannot be trusted to do the right thing for women, for disabled people, for LGBTIQA+ people and for people of minority faiths.</para>
<para>Based on what we know about the proposed legislation, we're really concerned about the clause that would specify that statements of belief don't constitute discrimination. That would ride roughshod over our existing antidiscrimination frameworks at both the federal and state and territory levels. The Australian Discrimination Law Experts Group said about the statement of belief in the previous draft that it would enable a whole range of awful situations. They said that the currently unlawful situations under state and territory laws that would likely become lawful if based on a religious belief include: an employer telling a transgender employee that their gender identity is against the laws of God; a childcare provider stating to a single mother that they are evil for depriving their child of a father; a receptionist at a medical practice telling a person with a disability that they've been given their disability by God so that they can learn important lessons; or a waiter in a cafe saying to clients that they would pray for their sins to a gay couple.</para>
<para>That's the Australia that Scott Morrison apparently wants to bring about. Our laws should protect people equally. No-one should be discriminated against on the basis of who they are, who they love or what they believe in.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prostate Cancer</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Prostate cancer was the most commonly diagnosed cancer among Australian men in 2020, with an estimated 16,741 diagnosed with prostate cancer and 3,152 men dying of prostate cancer. I recently had the opportunity to be briefed on a very concerning issue, that being Australian men who have a higher risk of prostate cancer being denied access to a treatment known as low-dose-rate brachytherapy boost via the MBS. This is due to a decision made by MSAC in 2019 to reject the extension of the indication of this treatment on the MBS.</para>
<para>What's concerning to me is that not only has the treatment been available on the MBS for men with lower-risk cancer for the last 20 years but that in 2017 a world-leading clinical study, known as the ASCENDE-RT trial showed a greater than 20 per cent reduction in the cancer control. Effectively, that means prostate cancer is cured. No other clinical trial has shown such a significant patient benefit. Based on this study, the USA, Canada, the UK and leading European nations updated their clinical guidelines such that low-dose-rate brachytherapy for men with higher-risk prostate cancer is now available. For example, in the UK it's available at no cost through the NHS. The obvious question is: why are men in Australia being denied access to this treatment when other leading nations have provided public access to it for men in their countries? Why is it that men in the US, Canada, the UK and other European nations can access this treatment but only some men in Australia can access the treatment—if they can afford to pay up to $25,000 privately?</para>
<para>This is a serious issue, and I would ask that Minister Hunt make his own inquiries as to why Australian men with higher-risk prostate cancer are being left behind.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Cabinet</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I totally reject the concept the government mislabels as 'national cabinet'. It's a fallacy; it's an artificial fabrication. National cabinet is not recognised under the Constitution and has no particular authority or decision-making power. The name sounds grand, yet it's nothing more than a meeting of the Prime Minister and state and territory premiers and chief ministers. Nothing that's agreed upon is enforceable because it came out of the meeting. Recent decisions of premiers which run contrary to supposedly agreed positions made at national cabinet meetings about border reopenings clearly exemplify this. It's akin to the decisions that come out of COAG, under a different name.</para>
<para>This government has tried to assert that documents or information relating to national cabinet discussions should be considered immune to public interest claims for disclosure and transparency because they may reveal cabinet deliberations immune to claims under freedom-of-information legislation. This is fallacious. Cabinet deliberations are protected from freedom of information claims. National cabinet, though, is a pretend concept. It is not a body of cabinet, and therefore is not protected from freedom of information claims and subsequent scrutiny of its decisions and actions. This was considered in the recent Administrative Appeals Tribunal decision of Patrick v Secretary, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (Freedom of Information), where Justice White held that national cabinet is not a committee of the Commonwealth cabinet and its documents and records are not to be considered as an official record of a committee of the Commonwealth cabinet for the purposes of the Freedom of Information Act 1982. The government's discussions and data about the mismanagement of COVID-19 are glaringly absent from the public eye. One Nation will always support transparency in government and condemns the government for trying to hide considerations that clearly are in the public interest and should not be shamefully kept secret.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think everyone in this place can agree that the creation of the Australian Senate committee system some 51 years ago has established a benchmark whereby Australians can have their say in the democratic process through access to the Senate. We are going to consider at some stage in this chamber motions to try and cancel the usual inquiries that these committees would make. It is perfectly reasonable that, where taxpayer funds are expended, the Senate would take a role in ensuring that those taxpayer funds are expended properly or that the agency is adhering to its legislative duties, and that is exactly what the Senate Environment and Communications Legislation Committee is proposing to do when it looks at the complaints handling function of the ABC and SBS.</para>
<para>People have said, 'Why do you need to have this inquiry when the ABC itself has said that it would have its own?' There are effectively two key reasons. The first reason is that the Senate can afford witnesses legal privilege, and there are people who want to come forward who want to have legal privilege because they are afraid of doing this without privilege, because of the financial burden. The ABC has spent $26 million in the past four years on legal fees alone. The second point is that people want to have their say at a public hearing. The idea that the Senate would deny Australians their say over a very run-of-the-mill process, which is the complaints handling function of a broadcasting corporation, a public broadcaster and which has nothing to do with editorial independence, would set a shocking precedent. We should be committed to always maximising opportunities for Australians to have their say about public institutions and how they are run.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Food Standards Australia New Zealand</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Everyone in this place knows the power of money in politics. Everyone knows how donations provide access to our elected representatives. Everyone knows how political donations buy influence in policy and legislation. We know because we have seen it time and time again. I worry that we are seeing it again with Food Standards Australia New Zealand, known as FSANZ. FSANZ is a small agency that plays a big role in regulating food ingredients and labelling. It is very important work.</para>
<para>FSANZ recently proposed pregnancy warning labels on alcohol, an initiative that would help prevent future cases of things like fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. This was opposed by the two ministers responsible—Senator Colbeck and Mr Littleproud. They likely didn't oppose it because it was bad policy. They likely didn't oppose it because of the cost. They likely opposed it because the alcohol industry did not want health warnings on their products. Two weeks after the FSANZ proposed a compromise, the ministers launched a review that could strip FSANZ of its powers. It wasn't long before the chair and the CEO were both out the door. The circumstances of their departures are very much unclear. I can't help but wonder if they were pushed.</para>
<para>There are three important questions we need answered, and we need them answered quickly. Has the independence of FSANZ been compromised? Is the government working to benefit the health of Australians or the alcohol industry's profitability? Most importantly, is the government working in the public interest or its own self-interest?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] Yet again, we have a Morrison government that can't be trusted to tell Australian industry the truth. The latest example, in addition to the naval submarine backflip, is the revelation in Senate estimates that the Pacific support vessels slated to be built in Australia—most likely, in WA—will now be bought second-hand overseas. This is despite WA industry having geared up for the work. These Australian businesses that are ready to do the work are being passed over by their own government, just like industry has been passed over with the dropping of the French Attack class submarines that were to be built here.</para>
<para>Now with the AUKUS submarine announcement, we have another set of soft promises. Where are they going to come from? We know that American shipbuilding yards that are used to manufacture nuclear submarines are operating beyond their capacity. There are no tenders, no time lines, no expressions of interest and, certainly, no contracts. The problem is the same in Britain. The security problems associated with nuclear technology, including transport, mean that it is extremely difficult to see AUKUS submarines actually being built here. We definitely need a solution to both the skills industry in defence and the capability gap that we're about to jump headlong into. We need a solution made in Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wheelchairs for Kids</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to acknowledge an inspiring and very successful local charity in Western Australia, based just five minutes from my electorate office at Wangara in Perth's northern suburbs. Wheelchairs for Kids was founded in 1998 and is a group of Western Australian volunteers that produce wheelchairs for impoverished children around the world, many of whom are living with disabilities caused by disease or war. It cannot be overstated how life-changing these wheelchairs are for the children who receive them and for their families and communities. In many cases, they would have no other way of receiving an adequate wheelchair that enables them to live a full life with freedom of mobility.</para>
<para>I recently visited Wheelchairs for Kids' production centre with my colleague, the member for Moore, Mr Ian Goodenough, where we saw firsthand the love and dedication shown by these volunteers. I sincerely thank them for the time they spend giving so much attention and thorough professionalism to what is a very, very important local and global charity. The volunteers work tirelessly to produce wheelchairs that meet global standards, with the latest model including postural supports, a harness, a tray, a waterproof cushion and even a soft plush toy for children to enjoy. A wheelchair is produced for every $200 that's donated, reaching more than 90 locations in 70 countries. Wheelchairs for Kids produced their 50,000th wheelchair in August this year—a truly remarkable milestone.</para>
<para>It's also important to note that one of the major sponsors and supporters of Wheelchairs for Kids is the Rotary Club of Scarborough, with many of the wheelchairs produced by Wheelchairs for Kids produced by Rotary members. A visit not long ago to my own Rotary Club of Perth reminded me how Rotarians across our state and, indeed, across Australia embody the best of community values—that value of selflessness. It's certainly an ethos shared by those at Wheelchairs for Kids, and I and many others applaud them for their fantastic charity work.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Cinemas</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Cinemas have done it tough throughout COVID. They were closed during lockdowns, and they were limited in their capacity when they were finally allowed to open up, due to social distancing requirements. There's also, of course, an apprehension about going into cinemas—small rooms with a lot of other people. Finally, it's very hard to get blockbuster movies to display in circumstances where the United States or Europe were closed down, so cinemas have been quite affected by circumstances in other countries.</para>
<para>When JobKeeper ended, I advocated for, and the government provided, $20 million in funding in a screen fund to assist cinema operators. Some $9.8 million was distributed. Unfortunately, what's happened since is that we've had lockdowns in both Victoria and New South Wales. Whilst in South Australia there weren't any lockdowns, again distributors wouldn't release movies. Why release movies to a small market in South Australia that undermines openings in Victoria and New South Wales? So we've got cinemas that are really struggling. Unfortunately, we heard yesterday that Wallis Cinemas at Gepps Cross—the drive-in cinema—is going to have to close.</para>
<para>Now, there's $10.2 million sitting in a fund approved for cinemas, and the government's refusing to release that. In circumstances where they gave $13 billion away to companies that didn't need it, now we've got cinemas who desperately need it and they won't give it to them. They let them get all the way through COVID, and now they're going to let them fail. That is just stupid.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week we saw again the consequences of the weakness of this Prime Minister. We saw the cost: violent demonstrations led by fascists and in some cases led by self-avowed neo-Nazis. There were nooses, threats and political violence. These aren't demonstrations. It is terrorism when the lives of members of parliament and senators are threatened, and this Prime Minister couldn't bring himself to condemn those threats, that violence or those demonstrations. Indeed, there are MPs and senators from this place who supported that activity. That has real consequences for the future of our democracy.</para>
<para>There's always a 'but' with the Prime Minister. It's very difficult to understand where this weakness comes from. Is it self-interest, because he's currying the favour and the votes of extremists? Is it self-interest, because he wants the preferences of extremist political parties that will be out there with Senator Rennick, Senator Canavan and Mr Christensen with all of the conspiracy theories, frightening ordinary people? Does he want their support? Is it weakness because he's frightened of the five senators whose weak threats to stop legislation in the Senate will probably come to nothing? Or is it because he's weak on extremist politics? This bloke has got to go.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Commonwealth Integrity Commission</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] Have you ever seen someone snorkel in a mud pit? That's what it feels like watching this Prime Minister trying to tackle corruption. I think we all agree that the only politician who fears a corruption watchdog is a corrupt politician, so it stands to reason that the only political party that fears establishing a corruption watchdog is a corrupt political party. It's been 1,075 days since this government promised to establish an independent commission against corruption. That was at the last election. The Greens tabled a bill to establish exactly this, and it passed the Senate nearly two years ago. We've been campaigning in this place and outside this place for such a body for over two decades. No-one has been more consistent or courageous on this than the Greens. But the government has refused to bring on the Greens' bill in the House. Why? It is because the story of this poor excuse for a government is a litany of lies, deceit, scandals, rorts, rip-offs and corruption.</para>
<para>More than half of the LNP cabinet have been embroiled in some scandal or another. No wonder the Prime Minister, Mr Scott Morrison, won't bring on this Greens bill for debate; he may end up losing government if he did. That won't wash with Australians, who are increasingly seeing the LNP as a protection racket more than a political party—and not just for each other but for their big donors, such as in the fossil fuel industry. We urgently need political donation reform if we're going to clean up politics. This is the most corrupt government in our history. Bring on the election. It's time to turf them out.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>More than Mining Campaign</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am proud today to speak in support of the More than Mining campaign, which is designed to give individuals and small employers in regional Australia the same tax treatment that our biggest companies enjoy in relation to housing. Nowhere is this reform more desperately needed than in the Pilbara region in Western Australia. The boom-bust of the Pilbara real estate cycle is legendary, with fluctuations of over 50 per cent when the cycle swings. In Port Hedland people regularly pay over $1,000 a week for a fibro three by one. That's over $50,000 a year for an entry-level house. This is prohibitive not only for those working in the mining industry but for everyone else within the community. Unless you work for a mining industry company that provides you with a house, you really don't get to get ahead.</para>
<para>If a big company pays for staff housing, it is a business expense and, therefore, it can be wholly written off. A regional worker who salary sacrifices for their mortgage enjoys only a 50 per cent write-off. I believe this should be extended to 100 per cent, even if only as a trial, to encourage more people to put down roots and call the regions their home. The fringe benefits tax was never meant to capture remote housing. The Regional Australia Institute estimates that, for every 100,000 Australians who choose to live in growing regional cities rather than our big five cities, an additional $50 billion will be released into the economy over 30 years in reduced congestion costs and increased consumption. This reform will work towards this. I commend this campaign to all senators.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today in workplaces across Australia there are hundreds of thousands of Australians working for labour hire firms. Many are being ripped off. They're paid 24 to 40 per cent less than their directly employed colleagues doing the exact same work. Unlike Mr Morrison, who spent $500,000 of taxpayers' money in legal fees to defend this dodgy practice in the courts and who passed laws earlier this year to protect this labour hire casual rort, Labor believes this is fundamentally wrong.</para>
<para>Labor knows that it's at odds with the Australian principle of a fair go, so yesterday Labor leader, Anthony Albanese, introduced a bill in the House to enshrine a very basic right of law—same job, same pay. That means that, if you work for a labour hire firm, you're entitled to at least the same pay that a direct employee of the company receives for the exact same work. It ends a loophole used by companies like BHP and Qantas of using labour hire firms to undercut the pay of their own employees. It will protect workers in mining, transport, aged care, disability care, health care and manufacturing—the list goes on.</para>
<para>The Morrison government are fiercely opposed to this bill. They want to protect the labour hire rort. Unlike Mr Morrison and those opposite, who pretend to be on the side of workers and then come to Canberra and vote against them time and time again, Labor is standing up and fighting for working Australians. Only an Albanese Labor government will stand up for labour hire workers. Only an Albanese Labor government will put same job, same pay into law.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Electoral Roll</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LINES</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We've seen the latest stunt by the Morrison government as they intend to introduce legislation into this place that will seek to disenfranchise voters. They're saying that it will rule out rorts. Of course, it won't. You will have to take a form of ID to a polling booth if the legislation gets here and gets through the Senate. We don't have electronic voting; we use paper rolls, so you can still vote as many times as you like.</para>
<para>The reality is that we don't have a problem with our democracy in this country. We don't have a problem with our voting system. Yet those over there are so desperate to cling to power that they think that disenfranchising First Nations people, the elderly and people from non-English-speaking backgrounds will somehow enable them to cling to power. Well, it won't, because Australians have seen through them and can't wait to vote them out.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Roberts, Senator Malcolm</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This morning, Senator Roberts leaked my personal mobile phone number on his social media. Since then I've received any number of nasty, abusive and threatening phone calls and messages. I may have to change my phone number.</para>
<para>I give my phone number to veterans whose mental health is not so good, and most of the time they're on their last legs. Those veterans know they can call me at any time of the day or night if they need someone to listen to them.</para>
<para>If you've got someone's number, it's not hard to find out personal details that are linked to it. I'm going to have to change my phone number, because I need to make sure my family and friends are safe.</para>
<para>It should go without saying that it is completely unacceptable to leak other senators' personal contact details to the public just because you don't like what they're saying. Every single one of us—no matter how much we disagree with one another, no matter how much we go at each other on the floor—should know that one thing. One Nation have crossed a line here that should never be crossed. You've got the AFP briefing politicians about our safety. We've got gallows on the steps of Victoria's parliament. Senators in this very chamber should not be facilitating any abuse.</para>
<para>Mr President, I'd like to respectfully ask that you look at this issue. One Nation have leaked my mobile number. I ask you to consider whether Senator Roberts should front up and apologise for his behaviour—even though he has had more than two hours to do so personally to me. And I ask that you look at the safety of senators in this place more broadly, because I think we have some problems here. Thank you.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Lambie. I will take that matter under consideration. I understand that Senator Roberts is seeking the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] I seek leave to make a short, two-minute statement.</para>
<para>Leave not granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the government. I want to respond briefly to Senator Lambie, and we would grant leave to the leader of the government to do the same. When Senator Cormann left this place, in the valedictory we had I spoke about the importance of containment of conflict, and I made this comment:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We fight here. There must be limits, there must be containment, because conflict without any limit risks destroying too much. It risks damaging the polity, the people, the community, the institution, too much.</para></quote>
<para>And I would add to that today: it risks the safety of colleagues and the safety of Australians.</para>
<para>This is why Labor has been so critical of the Prime Minister's refusal to unequivocally condemn violence and violent extremists. It was an abject failure of leadership. What I would say to the government and to One Nation is: if you start a fire, it can quickly overwhelm us. I urge the government senators and the leader of the government to unequivocally condemn what One Nation has done on this occasion and I urge Senator Roberts to issue an apology in an unqualified manner, and I urge us all to have standards of behaviour, regardless of our differences, that reflect the need to ensure colleagues and individuals across this country are safe.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] Mr President, I seek leave to make a short statement, because Senator Wong has misrepresented—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, Senator Birmingham is on his feet. Minister, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate. The sharing of private contact details or personal confidential arrangements in relation to any member of parliament—indeed, in relation to any individual—without their consent and knowledge is inappropriate and should not occur, and the government does not accept it. That is why, indeed, I spoke to Senator Lambie prior to question time and the government, along with other parties, agreed that Senator Lambie should be facilitated to make the statement she has made to this Senate, to draw attention to the issue and to seek to have an apology recorded, as would be the appropriate thing. As I recall, Senator Wong referenced that debate before and I recall my own remarks at the time on the importance of civility in the conduct of our political debate, the importance of us actually debating on the issues, not the person. That is something that I hope and trust we might see as we enter question time today, that we debate on the issues, not the person. That is crucial at all stages.</para>
<para>It is important, though, when we are having these debates, that we respect the differences of others and we respect their rights here as duly elected people, no matter how vehemently we may disagree with them and no matter how strongly we may engage in debates in this place. If we keep it on the issues and if we respect the rights of each other to be here, we can maintain a civility and a decency of conduct that the Australian people rightly expect. The government was willing, and I believe others are willing, to provide Senator Roberts the ability to make an apology, if that is the intention of Senator Roberts in terms of the publication of Senator Lambie's mobile phone numbers. It is a matter for Senator Roberts to make clear in seeking leave what his intent is.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Roberts, are you seeking the call?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement to correct the record.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for two minutes.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday Senator Lambie said, 'People make decisions and there are consequences for those decisions.' We don't condone publishing phone numbers that are private. Steve Mav, our Senate candidate, posted Senator Lambie's telephone number and a text message. So I need to correct the record and state that Steve Mav was sent the phone number by a Tasmanian voter who got it from Senator Lambie's Facebook post, with an invitation to contact her. A journalist has today confirmed that with Steve Mav, our candidate in Tasmania.</para>
<para>At the last election, Senator Lambie posted her bank account details on Facebook, with an invitation to send money. Steve has removed the phone number from his post. The text message stating that Senator Lambie opposes vaccine mandates remains. I will read it. Senator Lambie said to the Tasmanian voters, 'I don't support the mandate. It should be left for people to decide if they want the jab. Dictating to people is not the answer.' That has been left on Steve Mav's Facebook page. Our candidate called on her to recant her comments and to challenge her to a debate. One Nation is making inroads in Tasmania, and Senator Lambie is running scared, playing victim and misrepresenting the circumstances. This phone number, this bank account, were issued by Senator Lambie publicly, and a journalist has confirmed that today, so that is the record cleared.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Member For Dawson</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KENEALLY</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Yesterday I asked the minister about a photo posted by LNP MP George Christensen of the Victorian Premier Dan Andrews on his Telegram account, inciting violent comments threatening Premier Andrews' life. These posts were drawn to the attention of the AFP. The minister took my question on notice. Can the minister today advise what action Mr Morrison has taken in response to Mr Christensen's online activity?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have not received an updated brief in relation to that matter. I appreciate the senator has now asked on a consecutive day. I will seek that information urgently.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Keneally, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KENEALLY</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday the minister also said he was unaware that Mr Christensen posted a video of Catherine King MP, which incited threatening comments directed at Ms King. That post was also drawn to the attention of the AFP. Can the minister advise today what action Mr Morrison is taking in response to Mr Christensen's online activity in relation to this post?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There was a series of related questions from Senator Keneally yesterday. I refer to my previous remarks there.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Keneally, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KENEALLY</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday, the commissioner of the Australian Federal Police revealed he's been investigating various threats against parliamentarians. Why hasn't the Prime Minister publicly condemned Mr Christensen's post, which incited those very threats, and will he?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am certainly not aware of anything the AFP commissioner has said that relates specifically to the matters Senator Keneally has raised. As I've indicated, I acknowledge that questions have been asked on consecutive days. I haven't received an update in relation to these matters since yesterday, where I undertook to provide any information back to the chamber, but I will urgently seek such an update.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: National Plan</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs, Senator Cash. Can the minister update the Senate on how the Liberal-National government's national plan to safely reopen Australia is reuniting families and securing our economic recovery?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hughes for the question. On both the health and economic fronts, Australia has fared far better than most countries when it comes to dealing with COVID-19. What we are now seeing is that it is very pleasing that Australia is again reopening to the world. The incredibly high vaccination rate that we have in Australia has now meant that we can take further steps as a country to safely reopen.</para>
<para>We see, today, South Australia is safely reopening, and certainly the comments that I have had are that it is fantastic to see more and more of the internal borders coming down as states and territories continue to have increased vaccination rates. To all Australians out there who have gone and got themselves vaccinated: we certainly thank you. What we see with the borders coming down and Australia reopening is it's allowing families to reunite. It also has an important economic benefit for businesses, in terms of finding staff and making it easier to do business, as we know, between the states and territories.</para>
<para>The continued safe reopening is important for Australia to continue securing our economic future. Australia's economic recovery, as we know, is gaining pace, with the RBA upgrading its growth forecast for 2022 from 4.25 per cent to 5.50 per cent, and unemployment is set to continually fall to be sustainably with a '4' in front of it. That's why—you've seen the announcement—from 1 December this year we are now welcoming back fully vaccinated eligible visa holders to Australia without them needing to apply for a travel exemption. This means eligible visa holders, including skilled workers, students and humanitarian, temporary, working holiday-makers and provisional family visa holders, will all be able to come to Australia, and that's a good thing. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How will the expanded travel bubbles help Australia's travel industry to recover, including in rural and regional areas?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In terms of tourism, in the financial year 2018-19 Australia actually generated $60.8 billion in direct tourism gross domestic product, and the industry itself directly employed over 670,000 Australians. Forty-four cents of every tourism dollar is spent in regional Australia, and that is obviously a very, very good thing for our regional friends. That is why safely reopening Australia is just so important not just for our major capital cities but also holiday destinations like Coffs Harbour and Port Douglas.</para>
<para>The Singapore safe travel zone actually commenced its opening on 21 November. We are now welcoming eligible travellers into Australia from Singapore. As we know, with the announcement by the Prime Minister, on 1 December we will welcome citizens from Japan and Korea. Again, we are safely reopening, and in doing so we are welcoming people back to Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hughes, a second supplementary?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With Australia being the third most popular education destination globally, how will the reopening help our education sector continue to secure international students?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think as we all know, international education is Australia's fourth-biggest export. It contributes around $40 billion to the Australian economy. Normally, there are around 680,000 international students in Australia and, without a doubt, they certainly contribute to our cities' livelihoods. This is a cohort who, on top of the fees they pay, spend considerable money on accommodation and leisure, and, as we know, they support many of our small and family businesses. That's not just in our cities; they also travel into rural and regional Australia.</para>
<para>What we are seeing with the safe reopening of Australia really demonstrates the success of our national plan as the government continues to work with Australians to get Australia back to normal and to reopen Australia to the world. As the Prime Minister himself said yesterday, it's another win for Australians who want to see Australia return to some form of the normality we knew before COVID-19. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Why did Mr Morrison say in question time yesterday that he told the Leader of the Opposition where he was going on holiday while bushfires raged across the country when he had not?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for the question. I believe that Mr Morrison addressed those matters in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon and I'll draw the senator's attention to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Why did Mr Morrison then stand up for a second time and double down on his comments, even though they were not true?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer to my previous answer.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister confirm that more than an hour after falsely claiming he had told the opposition leader where he was going on holiday, and only after the Leader of the Opposition had left the chamber, Mr Morrison stood up for a third time to correct the record? Why does Mr Morrison have so much trouble telling the truth?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed Mr Morrison did address those issues, as I said in my primary answer, when he stood in the House yesterday afternoon. Of course, those opposite—predictably, and as I thought might be the case—are seeking as always to play the man. Their ambition is to play the man and not the ball. Their ambition is to make sure that they get to run the grubbiest and most personal election campaign possible, without any resort on their part to policies, to values or to any of the types of things that might actually be to the benefit of the Australian people.</para>
<para>We can see this in terms of the tactics the Labor Party are playing, day in and day out. We can hear the talking points in every interview that comes along. Every time one of them is up there—and it's usually not Mr Albanese, because they keep him in a box somewhere, but whenever any of the rest of them are up there—they of course all have their scripted attacks. Each of them goes straight to the personal, straight to trying to besmirch the Prime Minister and straight to trying to make sure that they undermine him in whatever way they possibly can. That's the type of grubbiness we no doubt will see from those opposite from now until polling day. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Gas Industry</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Resources, Water and Northern Australia, Senator Ruston. Yesterday, Woodside got the green light for the Scarborough gas project, which will generate 1.6 billion tonnes of emissions—equivalent to 15 coal-fired power stations every year. Scarborough will be the most polluting gas project in all of Australia. Minister, how could the Morrison government approve the most fossil-fuel-polluting project ever proposed in Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her question. The one thing that the Morrison-Joyce government will do is to ensure that the resources which are the wealth of Australia are able to be prosecuted to ensure that all Australians benefit from the wealth that sits under our ground. And we will do so in a responsible way—a way that's responsible when it comes to our emissions targets and a way that's responsible when it comes to making sure that we have reliable and affordable power. That's because we're not going to make the Australian public or Australian businesses pay for the future that we know we can achieve through our technology led recovery.</para>
<para>I always wonder, when we get questions from the Greens, what they hate about regional Australia? What do they hate about jobs? What do they hate about businesses? This government has made an absolute commitment towards net zero by 2050, but we're going to do it in a way that is responsible, a way that doesn't tax Australians, Australian families, Australian households and Australian businesses. We are absolutely committed to that. We are technology and source agnostic; we just believe that technology is the answer and not taxes.</para>
<para>I really don't understand why you are so against rural and regional Australia being able to benefit from the opportunity of jobs and the development of businesses, or why you are denying the Australian public the opportunity to realise the wealth that exists under our ground. As you may not realise, in rural and regional Australia, we have two great industries: we have our resources sector and we have our agricultural sector. These two sectors have been the backbone of the Australian economy for a very long time. They are two of the most environmentally responsible industries, and we on this side of the chamber will back them in for the benefit of all Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cox, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Woodside donates $220,000 every single year to the Liberal Party and the Labor Party. Former Liberal resources minister Ian Macfarlane and former Labor Western Australian Treasurer Ben Wyatt both sit on their board. Minister, who is responsible for setting gas policy in this country? Is it Woodside or is it the government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I'm really pleased to let Senator Cox know that it's the government that sets policy in Australia, and not just energy policy but all national policy is set by the government. You may not like it because you want to protest about everything that happens in this country, but we on this side of the chamber are very happy to have the privilege and the honour to set policy to support Australians.</para>
<para>We set policy that got us through COVID safely, making sure our economy remains sound. What we will continue to do, as we set policy going forward—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>is to make sure the best interests of Australia, of our economy, of the health and safety of our citizens and of our national interest are always protected by the policies that this government will always put forward.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can assure you that your grubby attempt to try and besmirch the policy of this government is not working, because this government will always make policy in the best interests of Australia. (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just before we go on, it is difficult for me to hear the minister and she is only a couple of metres away from me, so I would remind all senators that interjections are disorderly. Senator Cox, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The highly acidic gases from the Scarborough project will destroy First Nations cultural heritage at Murujuga, not only the rock art but also the songlines of the Seven Sisters dreaming story that are etched in the rocks at Murujuga. Traditional owners have said 'no' over and over to this project and are asking for it to be stopped. Why is the Commonwealth enabling the continued destruction of the Murujuga rock art at the hands of the Woodside Scarborough gas project?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would disagree with the premise of the accusations that Senator Cox has just made. In the development of our resource sector, of course we must always remain very, very alive to the issues of Indigenous culture in Australia. I can absolutely assure this chamber and anybody listening that that is always one of the absolute key considerations when we develop this sector.</para>
<para>But the resource sector is a very important element of the Australian economy. It benefits all Australians, including Indigenous Australians. Our First Nations Australians benefit from our resources sector, and we will continue to work in a process of co-design, consulting with First Nations Australians to make sure that we are developing all of our sectors across the whole of Australia in the best interests of all Australians; Senator Cox, that includes First Nations. (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pacific Australia Labour Mobility Scheme</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for International Development and the Pacific, Senator Seselja, who, I note, is freshly returned from a successful trip to Fiji. With Australia's border reopening as part of the government's national plan, can the minister update the Senate on how workers from the Pacific and Timor-Leste are contributing to Australia's rural economy, helping to secure jobs and supporting economic growth both in Australia and across our region as we recover from the COVID-19 pandemic?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Scarr, who is a champion of Australia's relations with the Pacific. I'm pleased to advise that we have almost 19,000 Pacific and Timorese workers in Australia—the most ever. Since our Pacific labour initiatives recommenced in September last year, more than 14,000 Pacific workers have arrived from seven participating Pacific nations and Timor-Leste. Between now and Christmas a further 2,000 Pacific workers will arrive to assist with the harvest period and a further 55,000 Pacific workers are ready and waiting to come to Australia. This is immediate action to address critical workforce shortages across regional Australia.</para>
<para>Pacific labour mobility is also expanding, and is now involved in more sectors. Pacific workers are helping to bring in harvests, process meat, care for our elderly and staff our hospitality venues as we look to bounce back after COVID-19. The government recognises the outstanding job Pacific and Timorese workers have done in critical industries in Australia throughout the pandemic, particularly in agriculture. These workers have played a vital role in many rural industries, including: Samoan aged-care workers in Katherine in the Northern Territory; Fijian meat workers in Inverell in New South Wales; and Solomon Islands horticultural workers in Clifton in Senator Scarr's home state of Queensland. On average, a longer-term Pacific worker will send remittances of more than $40,000 home over a three-year placement. This is an economic stimulus that directly allows our workers to support family, educate their kids and build homes, and it serves as a life-changing economic investment in our region. This makes Pacific labour much greater than just a win-win initiative within the region. It's essential for our Pacific family, and we're committed to its future.</para>
<para>Finally, as Christmas approaches we should also take a moment to pause and express our gratitude to these Pacific workers who will be away from family and their communities at this important time of year. I thank our Pacific family for the invaluable contribution they're making—<inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Scarr, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister update the Senate on the Liberal and National government's plan to improve and reform Australia's Pacific labour mobility programs, further maximising the benefits to both businesses and workers?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to be clear, that was Senator Scarr's first supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank you, and I'm looking forward to the second as well. Today we have announced the next stage of reforms to the Pacific-Australia Labour Mobility scheme. The changes follow extensive public consultation with Pacific island countries and our domestic industries, which will see a consolidated, improved and more efficient Pacific worker scheme benefitting employers, workers and participating countries. From 4 April 2022 the Seasonal Worker Program and Pacific Labour Scheme will be consolidated and replaced by an improved PALM scheme, simplifying administration and reducing duplication. The new single PALM scheme will be managed by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and its provider, the Pacific Labour Facility.</para>
<para>We're also enhancing our commitment to skills and training as part of these reforms, with more opportunities for PALM workers to access job-specific training. These reforms will benefit employers, workers and participating nations, marking a new era of growth and success for Australia and the Pacific.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry, Senator Scarr, I would never want to rob you of a question. A second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline how the recently announced reforms will help more Australian businesses hire more workers from the Pacific and Timor-Leste while also protecting worker welfare and cutting red tape for employees?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The PALM scheme will enable rural and regional businesses to engage the right workers more easily, where and when they need them, alleviating critical workforce shortages. Visa arrangements will also be simplified with a single PALM visa stream offering an extended length of stay of up to four years, and the option to recruit workers for seasonal roles or longer-term positions. We're also introducing more flexibilities for workers to move between employers in response to workforce demands, improving productivity and workers' earning capacity. The PALM scheme will further improve the high standards of program integrity and worker wellbeing that are central to the ongoing success of Pacific labour mobility. This is an exciting new era in Pacific labour mobility. These programs are win-win for Australia and our Pacific family. We look forward to welcoming more Pacific workers and the invaluable contribution they make in Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. In early November, Mr Morrison leaked private text messages from French President Emmanuel Macron. Why did Mr Morrison leak private text messages from President Macron and betray the trust of an ally, just to score a domestic political hit?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Wong for the question. I'm sure everybody is aware of the public commentary, news coverage and comments that had been made at the time in relation to awareness of discussions between Australia and France on matters leading up to the decision that was made by our government, in the national interest, to cancel the contracts in relation to the procurement of the Attack class diesel-powered submarines in favour of pursuing an alternative pathway, through the new AUKUS strategic partnership with the United States and the United Kingdom providing for procurement of a future nuclear-powered submarine alternative.</para>
<para>Everyone—and especially Senator Wong—I'm sure, is aware that there were suggestions that at some level France was unaware of elements of Australia's concerns about the type of program that we would need and the type of capability that we would need for the future—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I think you would fully appreciate that what the Prime Minister when he landed in the UK sought to do was outlined very clearly, in response to some of that public commentary—precisely the type of engagements that had happened in the lead-up to that announcement and the type of discussions that had been had in relation to ensuring that the context in which all of those discussions were made was better understood in the public discourse surrounding that. We believe these were important national security decisions that firmly are in the national interest.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday Mr Morrison tried—and failed—to use private text messages exchanged with the Leader of the Opposition to blame-shift his way out of trouble. Why is Mr Morrison making a habit of revealing private text messages?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think those questions have been dealt with, in terms of the previous questions that I had and the question just before. I'd refer to those answers. But, again, it comes back to those opposite wanting, as always, to play the man—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And we know they want to play the man because their advertising briefs even show that they want to play the man—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Their advertising briefs even show it. You know, Mr President, I was looking at their advertising brief for their TikTok campaign, and that said—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! Minister, resume your seat. Senator Wong, what's the point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have two points of order. The first is direct relevance. It's not relevant what this minister thinks about what the opposition might or might not be doing. It is a question about Mr Morrison's behaviour. The second point of order goes to the leader's continued refusal to ever turn and address you, Mr President, and to always face the chamber. It is customary for us to address the chamber through the chair. Now, I agree that—</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you going to let me finish?</para>
<para>A government senator: No.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Would you like to speak, Senator Birmingham?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! Senator Wong, you have the call, but please come to a conclusion.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that, Mr President. I accept that all of us address the chamber, but this leader never turns to speak to you, and I would invite him to do.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, you've had the opportunity to bring the minister—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, on the first point of order, you've had the opportunity bring the minister's attention back to the question. I'm listening carefully to the minister. On the second point of order, I don't believe there is a point of order. Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor's TikTok advertising brief—let me quote from it. It is quite—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, a point of order please. How this is possibly relevant—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Direct relevance: how is this possibly relevant to a question about Mr Morrison's habit of revealing text messages? Please do not allow question time to so stray—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I haven't finished my point of order, Mr President. I'm asking you to not allow question time to so depart from conventions and from the standing orders. Please pull this minister up.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, on the point of order: Senator Wong wants to interrupt as I'm midway through making a quote. She doesn't know where it finishes, or perhaps she's been looking a little bit more carefully at their advertising brief than I expected. They want to ask questions that go to personal character assessments of the Prime Minister. I think activities that may well point to the fact that Labor have a plan, a tactic in this regard, and that their approach is all about personalisation are indeed directly relevant. If they want to ask questions that are personal character attacks on the Prime Minister, then it is entirely appropriate to refute those.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, on the point of order, I am listening carefully to what the minister is saying. I will bring the minister back to the question. However, I do not know where the minister is going with a particular statement. I cannot know what's in the minister's mind. Minister, I'll bring you back to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I've just ruled.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, and I'm saying something.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is this a point of order?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Do you want me to move dissent?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition will consider its position on your ruling, and I would ask you to be very clear, after you hear the next part of the answer, what your ruling is, so the opposition can consider its position on your ruling. Am I being crystal clear?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, you have made your point. Resume your seat.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! I am listening carefully to the minister, as I always seek to do, particularly when the chamber is not disorderly. Minister, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in the opening sentence in response to this supplementary, where I referred the senator to the answer to the previous questions that were asked in relation to earlier text messages, where I referred the senator to my answer to the primary question, they directly address the question that was being asked. I was then seeking, Mr President, to go on—indeed, to address the broader theme that underscores the Labor Party question. I appreciate that Senator Wong is very sensitive about that broader theme, but I was very clear in the opening sentence what the answer was. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are Mr Morrison's colleagues concerned he will leak their private text messages if it suits him?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the pattern we have from the Labor Party, in terms of it being all about the personalisation of conduct and the personalisation of the Prime Minister. No, we're not, so Senator Wong can't say that I might not answer the question. No, we're not, to answer that part of the question. Those opposite are clearly running a clear campaign. The quote I was giving before was the Labor Party creative brief: 'We want to create authentic and engaging content to create awareness on our overarching theme.' Guess what their overarching theme was. Was it the Labor Party's values? No, it wasn't. Was it the Labor Party's policies? No, it wasn't.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask you to rule on whether that answer can possibly be directly relevant to my question. I ask for a clear ruling on that, Mr President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I'm about to rule. You've had the opportunity to bring the minister back to the question. The minister did—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Gallagher</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, he didn't!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister did. Allow me to rule, Senator Gallagher.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, then, don't interrupt please. The minister directly addressed the question at the beginning of his answer. He is now expanding. I am listening carefully to what he says. You have had the chance to bring him back to the question. Senator Wong, is this a different point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm asking, in relation to what I think is your ruling, to have the opportunity to take advice from the Clerk, including the rulings by Senator Ryan, which indicated very clearly that a directly relevant answer did not ground compliance with the standing orders of freewheeling thereafter. I would respectfully ask, Mr President, that you return to the chamber with that ruling after you have the opportunity to take advice.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I will take advice and come back to the chamber tomorrow. However, I will say that I continue to listen carefully to the minister's answer. Minister, you have the call with 20 seconds remaining.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Mr President. To close it off and bring it to the point of direct relevance to the overarching theme of Labor's question—what is Labor's overarching theme? It turns out it's Scott Morrison. It's not anything to do with their policies or their values or their approach. They put it in writing in their own advertising brief that their overarching theme is only about Scott Morrison, not about anything they themselves have to offer.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Telecommunications</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Regionalisation, Regional Communications and Regional Education, Senator McKenzie. Can the minister please update the Senate on the investment that the Liberals and the Nationals in government are making to ensure that regional and rural Australia has access and connection to 21st century telecommunications services?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Davey, for your tireless efforts in supporting rural and regional Australia, especially your constituents in New South Wales. Our government recognises the vital importance of digital connectivity to Australians who live, work and travel through rural, regional and remote Australia. They need access to good quality and reliable telecommunications. That's why we're delivering on our commitment to improve mobile coverage across Australia through our $380 million investment in the Mobile Black Spot Program, which is providing more than 1,200 new mobile base stations in black spots right across Australia. Of those base stations, 979 have actually been activated and are right now, in real time, delivering real benefits to regional communities right across Australia, including 320 funded base stations in your home state, Senator Davey.</para>
<para>There's been a lot of talk today about politics and partisanship, but how many base stations for rural and regional Australia have the Labor Party delivered? I don't now. You might be able to guess. This side of the chamber might guess. If they had a policy on this the Labor Party might be able to tell us. I will tell you: zero. It's not even zero, because you haven't been in government for that period of time; you actually don't have a policy to deliver mobile black spot coverage in this country—that is a fact—whereas our side of politics has $182 million, not just for our Mobile Black Spot Program but also for our Regional Connectivity Program, which provides place based solutions for local communities out in the regions.</para>
<para>For Senator McDonald, Senator Canavan and Senator McMahon, we're investing in connecting northern Australia through $685 million dedicated to improving telecommunications in the North. We're about growing jobs and opportunities for the regions through connecting them with 21st century digital connectivity.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister also outline why quality telecommunications in regional Australia is vital to jobs and economic opportunities, as well as why it's so important in times of emergency?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is absolutely critical. We've seen through COVID the importance of that connectivity for people, young people in particular, to access education opportunities. Telehealth has been of significant importance during COVID. And that connectivity is important to keep those supply chains open, particularly with food supplies during lockdowns and border closures via state governments.</para>
<para>Having reliable telecommunications services means being able to use those sorts of services that I've outlined when and where you need them. We've seen Australians move out of capital cities and into the regions, and it is the digital connectivity that we've been able to deliver over the last eight years that has meant they've been able to stay out there. It's why Telstra has said: 'You know what? You don't have to come back to the CBD and to the office; you can stay where you're loving to live and stay our employee.' We've consulted widely across the regions through our regional telecommunications review and look forward to delivering a response shortly. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Davey, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Finally, is the minister aware of risks to regional telecommunications services and of what impact a lack of investment would have on our regional Australians and the communities they work and live in?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm not aware of any alternatives. As I said in my first answer, nowhere in the Labor policy platform at the last election, nor in the ambiguity with which they're talking to Australian people around the next election's policy, do they mention mobile black spot funding. There's big talk around the NBN but nothing about place based, localised solutions for rural and regional communities, nothing about the internet of things on-farm and nothing about those who don't live in major regional capitals, like Newcastle, like Geelong and like Ballarat and Bendigo—their two favourite regional capitals, which they are happy to invest in. If you live outside of those two, you get absolutely nothing. So the greatest risk to connecting the regions and to growing the regions through digital connectivity is electing Albanese and his best mates: the Greens and Adam Bandt.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence. Lawyers are taking the Australian Defence Force to court on behalf of a young former recruit. They are alleging that, on 1 October 2020, the former RAAF aircraftman was bound, gagged and strangled by fellow recruits. In a video that appears to be of the events, the recruit is sexually assaulted. Minister, this is torture; this seems to be becoming standard behaviour in the Defence Force. It's the torture of an Australian who signed up to serve his country. When did Minister Dutton become aware of these allegations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Lambie for her question, of which I have no notice. I am not aware of the matters to which Senator Lambie refers. If the matters to which Senator Lambie refers at the beginning of her question are matters of fact, and if they are correct as she has described them to the chamber, then, in any circumstances, they would be completely unacceptable actions in any context—not just the context in which Senator Lambie has raised it. However, Senator Lambie has gone on in her question to assert that these matters are—I think, and I stand to be corrected by the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>—standard behaviour or routine, or some variation of those words. I absolutely reject that. These are not appropriate behaviours, they are not supported in any context in the Australian Defence Force and they are not standard behaviour. I will follow these matters up, Senator Lambie, and come back to the chamber with further information.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That would be wonderful. When the royal commission goes through, I'll come back to what you just said, because that is all going to come out. Defence investigated the recruit's complaints of abuse last year, and nothing happened. What kind of investigation was held here, at what rank was it held and who did the investigation? That's what I want to know.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given that I've already advised the chamber that I am not aware of these matters, I have no further information for Senator Lambie. I'll take those questions on notice and return to the chamber.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Lambie, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LAMBIE</name>
    <name.id>250026</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Defence have been offered a chance to see the video and have declined to use it as part of evidence. They might be going back on that now. They say they are completely unaware of this ever having occurred, and, when given the chance to see it themselves, say no. There have been dozens of complaints about the toxic culture that has seeped into this one base. Why haven't Defence done anything about these allegations?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I said in relation to Senator Lambie's first and second questions, I'm not aware of this matter; I don't have any information for the senator. But I have indicated that I will take questions on notice and return with information to her.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Mr Morrison declared to the parliament in relation to former Australia Post chief executive Christine Holgate that 'she can go' but later claimed that Ms Holgate chose to resign of her own accord. Why did he say that when it wasn't true?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Grogan for the question. I would refer Senator Grogan to published statements from Australia Post at the time in relation to Ms Holgate's resignation.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Morrison previously said that reports that he had tried to invite Brian Houston to the White House were 'gossip'. Why did the Prime Minister say that when it was not true?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I believe that the Prime Minister's addressed that question in the House of Representatives this question time, and I refer to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Grogan, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does Mr Morrison still stand by his statement that he has never told a lie in public life?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, indeed I'm sure he does. And do you know what? I'm not going to stand here and be lectured on integrity by the hypocrites opposite. I'm not going to be lectured on integrity by those who invented the 'Mediscare' campaign and decided that that was the way they were going to try to somehow win office: by scaring Australians on false policies. I'm not going to be lectured by those opposite, who are currently running the pensioner scare campaign, again trying to sneak into office on a falsehood. And I invite any one of them to stand up and apologise to Australian pensioners who, right now, they're erroneously trying to scare into believing policies that simply do not exist and that Senator Ruston has refuted time and time again. Those opposite come into this chamber and love to talk endlessly about car park programs, when of course they invented the car park programs themselves and were happily touring the country announcing them themselves—those opposite, trying to run their TikTok dirty tricks against the Prime Minister. That's the hypocrisy on show from those opposite. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Payne. Will the minister advise the Senate on the ways in which Australia is protecting and securing our national interests in a challenging world?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Paterson very much for his question and particularly for his interest in these key issues, because it is the case that the Morrison government is delivering clear outcomes in Australia's interests—in the Indo-Pacific, in our bilateral engagement and in our multilateral engagement. As I noted in the Senate yesterday, we're the first country to secure a comprehensive strategic partnership with ASEAN and have formed CSPs with both India and Malaysia in the last two years alone, as well as our Comprehensive Strategic and Economic Partnership with Papua New Guinea—all key regional relationships. We've seen remarkable progress on the Quad over the past two years, from just the first ministerial in-person meeting in 2019 to realising the historic in-person Quad Leaders' Summit in September of this year. We've advanced our cooperation with Quad partners to make the region stronger, more prosperous and more stable through delivering practical outcomes together with the United States, with Japan and with India.</para>
<para>To enhance our national security for decades to come we have entered a partnership with the United Kingdom and the United States to share technology, including cyber, quantum and artificial intelligence, as well as nuclear propulsion systems for a new fleet of submarines. This is a landmark agreement. Only once before has a country agreed to share such nuclear powered submarine technology with another nation, and that was the United States with the United Kingdom in the 1950s—over six decades ago. These outcomes—bilateral and others—are significant steps in our longstanding partnerships and also cognisant of the changing strategic environment, befitting of the depth of, and our shared interests in, the security and prosperity of our region and the interests of the Australian people.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that answer. Will the minister update the Senate on the importance and role of international engagement and partnerships in addressing the COVID-19 pandemic?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Paterson for his supplementary question. The crucial word in our cooperation on the pandemic is 'partnership'—based on the needs and priorities of our partners. Our vaccine partnerships in the Indo-Pacific are not just about the sharing of vaccine doses; they're also about training for health workers, cold-chain equipment provision, public information campaign support, and technical advice, so that vaccines reach the arms of the people who need them the most.</para>
<para>It was thanks to our strong relationships with Poland, the United Kingdom, Singapore and the European Union that the government was able to secure 6½ million vaccine doses to also strengthen our domestic rollout. We're partnering with our neighbours' health systems as well, through Australian medical assistance teams and the supply of equipment such as oxygen concentrators, logistics, and testing and surveillance. Through groups such as the Quad, ASEAN and the Pacific Islands Forum, we're aligning our responses and coordinating with multilateral initiatives, such as the Covax Facility, in vaccine delivery. (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the minister advise of how Australia is working to cement Australia's and our region's economic recovery from the pandemic?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Paterson for his second supplementary question. The government is focused on supporting a regional economic recovery that is underpinned by free and open markets governed by transparent rules. We know that jobs and investment in Australia's economy are linked with those of our region. Australia's Pacific Step-up has expanded and deepened our partnerships in the region, maintaining a record $1.44 billion of development assistance to the Pacific in 2021-22. On 2 November, Australia ratified the RCEP, the world's largest free trade agreement, which will bring together nine of Australia's top 15 trading partners into a single economic framework. Following the signing of our Australia-India CSP in 2020, we've now formally resumed negotiations on a comprehensive economic cooperation agreement with India, deepening bilateral trade with one of our most important Indo-Pacific partners. Under this government, Australia is seen as a reliable, consistent and trusted partner, and our commitment to free and open trade is absolute.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Two days of question time in a row and already the Prime Minister has been caught out again today not telling the truth in the parliament. This is very reminiscent of what happened when the Prime Minister went to Glasgow for COP26. On the back of being called out by the French President, Emmanuel Macron, the Prime Minister's word was mud. Business leaders, community leaders, delegates and negotiators all knew they couldn't trust what the Prime Minister would say. After signing the Glasgow pact, which requires Australia to make changes to keep temperature rises below 1.5 degrees, including phasing down coal, the Prime Minister came back to Australia and said he didn't need to change a thing. Is the Prime Minister fibbing to the world, to our children or to himself?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson-Young for that question. Indeed, the Prime Minister did go to Glasgow, and he went to Glasgow armed with the facts of Australia's record on climate change. Australia's record on climate change is one of absolutely delivering what we promise. Indeed, overdelivering on our promises is our record when it comes to climate change. Australia has seen our emissions fall by more than 20 per cent since 2005. They're down 5.3 per cent this year. We beat our Kyoto-era targets by 459 million tonnes.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister was able to travel to Glasgow with Australia's track record of delivery—by the Australian people, by Australian farmers and by Australian businesses. Australians have themselves invested and have seen their government and many businesses invest in achieving the change to reduce emissions. The Prime Minister was able to go to Glasgow with a track record in excess of that of many other nations—nations the Greens sometimes love to laud, whereas Australia is exceeding them in terms of achievement when it comes to reducing emissions. Emissions reduction in our country is faster than Canada, faster than Japan, faster than New Zealand, faster than the United States and faster than the G20 and OECD averages.</para>
<para>That is the track record that we were able to take to Glasgow, the Australian track record. As the Prime Minister promoted, it's the Australian way of reducing those emissions, the Australian way of investing in emissions reduction through technology, through innovation, through backing people to be able to get ahead and, in getting ahead, through reducing those emissions successfully—without destroying jobs or elements of our economy and without undermining our Australian competitiveness. That's the positive story the Prime Minister was able to take to Glasgow. It is one of achievement, overachievement and clear plans for the future. <inline font-style="italic">(</inline><inline font-style="italic">Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister's word was mud in Glasgow, and everyone knows it. We had an Australian pavilion that was whitewashed and greenwashed, covered in logos from Santos, without even a skerrick of representation from our First Nations people. Why is the Prime Minister not just denying the climate science and the fast track we need but also denying First Nations people a right to have a voice in relation to this issue?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I suspect Senator Hanson-Young was talking to a rather select group of individuals when she was in Glasgow. That's my suspicion. And the group Senator Hanson-Young was hanging out with probably had some predetermined prejudices in their thinking—apparently even a prejudice against a fine, significant South Australian company like Santos, which Senator Hanson-Young chose to sledge on the way through in her question.</para>
<para>What Australia highlighted was not just our overachievement in terms emissions reductions but our commitments and plans for the future: the commitment to work towards net zero by 2050, underpinned by government investment of more than $21 billion in low-emissions technologies over the decade to 2030. This will help to secure more than $80 billion in total investment by leveraging other private sector capital and investment that is going to help achieve the types of emissions reductions through technological breakthroughs that have got us so far in achieving more than 20 per cent reductions to date and will help to achieve the further challenges we face. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister's performance at Glasgow was embarrassing. We've now got back to Australia and, again, the Prime Minister can't be trusted on anything he says. He's lied. He's misled. He has absolutely denied the truth in relation to—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Abetz, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Abetz</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. The reflection on the Prime Minister is clearly against standing orders and it needs to be withdrawn unequivocally.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, on the point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, you may wish to go away and consider this as well, but I do note that, earlier today, Senator Ruston used the words 'lying', 'liar' and 'lies' on multiple occasions in the contribution on the suspension debate and accused everyone on this side, knowing that they were lying. She made a number of allegations about lying. We didn't take offence, but I would ask you to reflect on whether or not, given that the Manager of Government Business in the Senate has been prepared to use those words, it's appropriate at this stage to rule this out.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order in the chamber! Senator Wong. Senator Ruston. There has been a clear precedent and a number of rulings that say that an epithet like lying, directed at an individual, is clearly in breach of 193(3), whereas such a comment directed in general at a political party is not out of order. In the case of this question, Senator Hanson-Young, your accusation was directed at the Prime Minister, so I will ask you to withdraw that part. I think the rest of the question can stand. You have 11 seconds remaining. I would ask you to withdraw and then continue your question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you Mr President, I withdraw. Minister, why does the Prime Minister have a problem with truth?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In Senator Hanson-Young's reference to those international engagements that occurred at Glasgow, she obviously overlooks the fact that the Prime Minister, in those international engagements and with Australian ministers in our government, has signed new technology low-emissions partnerships with Singapore, Japan, Germany, the UK, Korea, Indonesia and Vietnam, demonstrating indeed just how closely the Prime Minister and our government are working with international partners. That's completely contrary to the types of claims that the Greens want to make. These are close international partnerships on technology cooperation that are a vote of confidence in terms of the investment we are making in our technology; the work and commitment that we have to emissions reduction; and Australia's track record on achievement, which our government is proud of and continues to pursue and deliver.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Does the Prime Minister believe that an unvaccinated person in Sydney should be able to get a cup of coffee at a cafe today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister does believe that as we implement the national plan towards reopening, which the Prime Minister took to the national cabinet and worked with the states and territories on to get them to make commitments consistent with that national plan, and as we achieve some of the highest levels of vaccination in the developed world—more than 91 per cent of Australians have now had a first dose and more than 85 per cent have now had a second dose—that we need to work through the different stages in that national plan. The different stages in that national plan chart the course towards normality—normality as it was before COVID.</para>
<para>Yes, that's knowing that of course vaccination and differing health protocols will require us to continue to manage and work with COVID. The Prime Minister, I and all members of the government urge every single Australian to go and get vaccinated. That is what everybody should do. But we want to make sure as well that in terms of the cafe owners, small business owners and staff working in retail across the country that all those individuals are respected in terms of the engagement they will have going forward in working in, living and operating businesses in one of the most heavily vaccinated countries in the world. That means that they should be free to operate in accordance with the laws of the land but that they also should be free in terms of not having undue, longer term and more-onerous-than-is-necessary restrictions based upon them in terms of how they enforce operations in their business or what they do in their business.</para>
<para>Indeed, that is why the national plan charted those different stages. And as we get the highest possible levels of vaccination in this country we should be looking to move into those final stages. We should be looking at the pathway into those final stages. That of course is the case here in the ACT, one of the most highly vaccinated jurisdictions in the world, and I have no doubt that is the case we're seeing in terms of where New South Wales and other states will head.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As opposed to today, in September Mr Morrison said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… let's be clear about what the plan says. When you get to 80 per cent, what it says is domestic restrictions on vaccinated persons should be lifted. We're not talking about willy-nilly movement of people who are unvaccinated …</para></quote>
<para>But now he says that restriction should be lifted at 80 per cent for unvaccinated people to get a cup of coffee in a cafe in Brisbane.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Time, Senator Ayres!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Was he lying in September or is he lying now?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, resume your seat. Minister, insofar as the question was asked.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Obviously, this was a supplementary so I assume the question draws on from the primary question, which was in relation to New South Wales. I note that New South Wales is not at 80 per cent vaccination. New South Wales is at 92 per cent double-dose vaccination and 94.4 per cent first dose vaccination. So New South Wales has indeed well and truly exceeded that 80 per cent target in relation to the national plan. That is why we welcome the fact that the New South Wales government has been able to make further commitments, in terms of reopening, that have enabled us as a Commonwealth government to take additional steps and make commitments in terms of reopening, including our international borders, with the announcements made this week in relation to enabling visaholders to return to Australia. Those steps in the national plan are possible because of the very high vaccination rates that have been achieved—vaccination rates well in excess of what Senator Ayres quoted then. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ayres, a second supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Morrison has criticised the Queensland government for its restrictions on unvaccinated people but backs in restrictions on unvaccinated people in New South Wales. Why has the Prime Minister got one position in Queensland and another position in New South Wales?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think, if the senator cared to actually look at what Premier Perrottet has announced in terms of the different steps in relation to New South Wales, there are indeed further steps in terms of New South Wales's opening up that are being pursued and are being undertaken. That is New South Wales operating in accordance with the scientific evidence of the national plan. This is just it: our government, at every stage, has sought to provide leadership in closing the international borders, leadership in sharing the health advice, leadership in terms of mandating vaccines where they're necessary for the highly vulnerable in aged care, in disability care and in high-care health settings—we've recognised all of that—and also leadership in terms of developing a scientifically underpinned national plan for reopening, which is something very few countries in the world have had the opportunity to do. We have. We did. We are now seeing it implemented, and that is to the great benefit of the Australian people. Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: ADDITIONAL ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Defence Force</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to provide further information to the chamber in response to Senator Lambie's question. The ABC published a story this morning detailing the bastardisation to which I believe Senator Lambie refers. Defence was made aware on 22 October of the existence of the video to which I believe Senator Lambie refers and immediately urged the individual's lawyers, Operational Legal Australia, to refer the matter to the civilian authorities. Defence has now also referred the matter to the Joint Military Police Unit for review. Defence has not seen the footage nor been provided with a copy of the video. Defence is working to identify those who are pictured in this morning's ABC report. It is not appropriate for me to comment further on individual matters, as I'm sure the chamber would appreciate.</para>
<para>Let me reiterate the observations I made in relation to Senator Lambie's first question. The Australian Defence Force is well known and highly respected around the world for its exemplary standards and its insistence on them, and I thank those members of the ADF—the many, many women and men of the ADF—for their past and ongoing service to our country. A unifying set of defence values and behaviour sets the benchmark for what defence expects of its people in the workplace. All defence personnel are expected to behave in accordance with the defence values and behaviours. Defence does not tolerate unacceptable behaviour and takes action when unacceptable behaviour occurs, in accordance with the department's unacceptable-behaviour policy. A soldier's service has recently been terminated as a result of sending inappropriate images to his colleagues. Importantly, these instances are few. The vast majority of our personnel are a credit to the Australian Defence Force and to the nation. Defence has extensive awareness programs and support services in place to educate and assist all personnel. This includes training officers and ADF cadets.</para>
<para>Our government is very proud of our Defence Force. Our ADF has been responsive and able and available to assist our Australian communities through some of the most difficult times this year and last year. They have been here for us through support and recovery through bushfires and floods. They've protected our communities as we deal with COVID-19 impacts, and we thank them for their service.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Federal Police</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to update the chamber on the AFP MOU and national guidelines. The Speaker, the Attorney-General, the Minister for Home Affairs and I have signed a new memorandum of understanding regarding investigations where parliamentary privilege may be involved. The Australian Federal Police will also issue a new national guideline which updates the procedures that the AFP will follow for the collection and quarantining of material that could be subject to parliamentary privilege. The MOU and guideline are designed to ensure that law enforcement investigations are conducted without improperly interfering with the functioning of parliament, its committees and its members. They also ensure that parliamentarians and their staff are given a proper opportunity to raise claims of parliamentary privilege in relation to material that is obtained through the execution of a warrant.</para>
<para>The new MOU and guideline replace the 2005 settlement of these issues and include some significant improvements, particularly related to: overall improved oversight of investigations which may intersect with parliamentary privilege; clarifying the application of the guideline to electronic information, particularly where this is held by third parties; and reporting to the committee of privileges on the use of covert powers in relation to parliamentarians and their staff. These changes address shortcomings in the 2005 protocols which were identified in reports of the privileges committees in both houses tabled during the 45th Parliament. They also respond to the Senate resolution of December 2018 which called on the Attorney-General to work with the Presiding Officers to develop a new protocol for the execution of search warrants and the use of other intrusive powers by executive agencies.</para>
<para>It was initially hoped new procedures would also be agreed in relation to the exercise of covert powers. However, more work is required to ensure these procedures address the concerns of parliamentarians, particularly in relation to access and use of telecommunications data and the quarantining of material collected covertly. In addition, there are practical issues which the AFP must address to ensure that the agreed procedures do not unduly hamper investigations. Further negotiations regarding the implementation of procedures that ensure covert powers are exercised in a manner which does not intrude on parliamentary privilege will be conducted in the next parliament.</para>
<para>I acknowledge the work of the Speaker, Minister Andrews, the Attorney-General and, particularly, Senators Abetz and McAllister and members of the Committee of Privileges, including the chair of the Privileges Committee, Senator O'Neill. In particular, I pay attribute to former President Ryan for his clarity of thought and perseverance in this matter. He would have very much liked to have had this concluded before his departure. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case, but I know that he is pleased that it has been concluded now. I table a copy of the MOU and the national guideline.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for two minutes.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to make a short statement to acknowledge the tabling of the memorandum of understanding which you have just undertaken and the statement that you have just made, Mr President, in relation to the memorandum of understanding on the execution of search warrants in relation to a member of parliament. I acknowledge in particular the extensive work that has been undertaken in relation to this matter. I acknowledge that it is work that has transcended Presiding Officers, relevant ministers and a number of officials and others involved in the process. Therefore, I extend that acknowledgement to all those who have engaged in this process in good faith while seeking to resolve what are, at times, challenging issues of principle in relation to the protection of privilege, but also ensuring that in no way is the proper engagement of our law enforcement officials impeded unnecessarily in relation to the upholding of the laws of the land.</para>
<para>I particularly acknowledge the work that the Privileges Committee has undertaken in helping to inform and advise Presiding Officers and all parties to this work. I trust that the safeguards that have been built into the memorandum of understanding, including in relation to the reporting arrangements that exist, will help to provide all parliamentarians with the confidence that they can conduct their duties in the manner in which all parliamentarians should be free to, in accordance with the historic conventions and traditions that have enabled robust assessment analysis by parliamentarians of issues and the prosecution of those issues with the necessary freedoms and protections to do so. Also these measures should give confidence to all Australians that, whilst our parliamentary democracy is protected, so too will appropriate action be available in relation to legal matters and, as always, no Australian sits completely above the law in our nation.</para>
<para>Mr President, I thank you for the statement you've made to the Senate, for the details that you have outlined to the Senate and for bringing this matter here. I again acknowledge the cross-party and especially bipartisan way in which these matters have been tackled.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—These are fundamentally important documents that have been tabled today. They go to the heart of the relationship between parliament and the executive. I note that they replace an MOU and guideline agreed to in 2005. Since that time, especially in the last five years, the Senate has dealt with multiple incursions into the privileges of its committees and of senators, which have been the subject of a number of reports by the Standing Committee of Privileges. In particular, during the 2016 election campaign the Turnbull government launched a raid on the offices of the then Deputy Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Conroy, and the private home of a member of his staff. This extraordinary action came about because Senator Conroy had information about the National Broadband Network that was politically embarrassing for the government of the day.</para>
<para>The Privileges Committee recommended, and the Senate adopted without dissent, not only a finding that the claim of privilege by Senator Conroy be upheld but also that the documents be withheld from the Australian Federal Police investigation and returned to Senator Conroy. This was a political action in the middle of an election campaign that was conducted with disregard of parliamentary privilege, as was evidenced by the further finding of the Privileges Committee in its 164th report that improper interference occurred with the functions of the parliament and the free performance by Senator Conroy of his duties as a senator. The necessity of a robust memorandum and guideline is demonstrated by these events.</para>
<para>In December 2018 the Senate first agreed to a motion calling for the development of a new protocol for the execution of search warrants and the use by executive agencies of other intrusive powers complying with the principles and addressing the shortcomings identified in the reports tabled by the bipartisan Privileges Committee. The intent of these documents is to ensure that parliament and parliamentarians are not subject to improper interference in the performance of their duties. They are intended to facilitate investigations in a way that does not amount to a contempt of parliament and that provides parliamentarians with a measure of confidence that parliamentary privilege is being respected and that parliamentarians will have an opportunity to make claim that material is protected by privilege. While the MOU and guideline are intended to operate as a safeguard against the possibility of contempt, by providing for the rights of members of parliament to be protected, it is important to note that their existence alone cannot preclude the possibility of contempt being committed. It is a reminder to the executive that parliamentary privilege is not a convention or a courtesy; it is the law.</para>
<para>Mr President, I agree with you that these documents represent significant progress. I also agree with you that there is unfinished business. As the President has said, it was not possible to conclude negotiations on the operation of the memorandum and guideline with respect to the exercise of covert powers. I note that the agreement explicitly refers to further negotiation in relation to these powers in the next parliament. Regardless of who forms government after the next election, this agreement must be honoured. I urge those senators across the chamber, including those opposite, to really turn their minds to the importance of making sure that privilege is respected in terms of the interactions between the executive and the parliament. It cannot be another 16 years before these documents are further reviewed and updated.</para>
<para>I place on record my personal thanks to Senator McAllister for her leadership and work on behalf of the opposition in negotiations on these matters. Renegotiation is something that we have been seeking for some years. I also place on record my thanks to former President Ryan for his extensive work in finalising these documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS ON NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Question No. 4085</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to standing order 74(5), I would like to seek an explanation from the Minister representing the Prime Minister as to why question No. 4085, which has been on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> since 6 September, has not been answered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to question 4085, I think Senator Patrick indicated, dating back to 6 September, I shall look into those matters for the senator.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of Minister Birmingham's response.</para></quote>
<para>I rise to take note of that response from the minister. This is an important question, Minister, and it shouldn't have been a difficult one to answer. So I'll just read the question for you:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Since the decision in <inline font-style="italic">Patrick and Secretary, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (Freedom of Information) [2021] AATA 2719</inline> was handed down on 5 August 2021, how many Freedom of Information requests has the Department received relating to National Cabinet documents.</para></quote>
<para>Now, I would've thought that would be a pretty simple answer to get access to, and it actually is disturbing that, of the four questions that are outstanding in relation to the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>, three of them are from the Prime Minister's office—almost treating this place with contempt by just not answering questions in a timely fashion.</para>
<para>I want to go to why this question is important. It relates to a response that a constituent of mine received a couple of weeks ago and, indeed, a response that I received a week ago from the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet in relation to an FOI request that I made. The requests from my constituent and from me were in similar terms. I'll read what my request was. I requested the agendas, minutes and records of decisions of the initial 10 cabinet meetings, excluding documents that were already released but including the full minutes of the national cabinet dated 15 March 2020. So I was after national cabinet minutes.</para>
<para>In response to that—and I'm just going to read from it—a decision was made by Ms Angie McKenzie, and I think it's a disgraceful decision. It's a disgraceful decision that really does warrant some consideration by the government because it seeks to override Justice White's decision, and I'll explain how it does that. Ms McKenzie puts in her decision reasoning, in refusing to grant access to these documents:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am aware of and have considered the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) decision delivered on 5 August 2021 by Deputy President (Justice) White in <inline font-style="italic">Patrick and Secretary, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet</inline><inline font-style="italic">[</inline><inline font-style="italic">2021</inline><inline font-style="italic">]</inline><inline font-style="italic"> AAT 2719</inline><inline font-style="italic">(Patrick)</inline>. Justice White was of the view that, on the evidence available to him, the National Cabinet was not a committee of the Cabinet for the purposes of the FOI Act.</para></quote>
<para>I just want to read to you how this officer inside the PM&C made a determination. She writes:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In view of all the evidence available to me (not all of which was available to the AAT in making its decision in <inline font-style="italic">Patrick</inline>) and as set out below, I have formed the view that National Cabinet is a committee of the Cabinet for the purposes of the FOI Act, and therefore National Cabinet documents are exempt from disclosure under s 34 of the FOI Act.</para></quote>
<para>To summarise what is being said here: Justice White says, and says quite explicitly, in his judgement, that the matters 'point persuasively against the National Cabinet being a committee of the Cabinet within the meaning of the statutory expression'. So that's what judges do—they look at the statutory expressions and they try and interpret their meaning. o there's no doubt as to what Justice White was saying: national cabinet is not a committee of the federal cabinet. That was his decision. It wasn't appealed. And then we find, some short time later, we have some low-level official, an assistant secretary, cabinet division, saying don't worry about what Justice White says; she has found that it is a committee of the federal cabinet. I just cannot reconcile that. What she did was she said, 'No; I've got some new evidence that Justice White didn't have.'</para>
<para>The assistant secretary says: 'On 15 March the national cabinet endorsed the terms of reference for national cabinet, which explicitly provide that national cabinet was established as a committee of the cabinet'—and she goes on to talk about, among other things, its proceedings and so forth. She is basically saying: 'That's new evidence that Justice White didn't have.' Let me read from Justice White's judgement at para 189. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The respondent,—</para></quote>
<para>that's PM&C—</para>
<quote><para class="block">who has the relevant onus, did not adduce formal evidence of adoption by the members of the National Cabinet of the principles of collective responsibility and solidarity. I am willing to accept, however, that, by the adoption of the Terms of Reference attached to the minutes of the National Cabinet, it did resolve to act in accordance with such principles.</para></quote>
<para>So we have an FOI officer that says: 'The judge didn't see the terms of reference.' Yet, in his judgement, he references them! The judge references and acknowledges them. This is incompetence of an order that I haven't seen before: that Justice White's decision actually mentions the evidence that this official says was not available to Justice White.</para>
<para>Ms McKenzie, the assistant secretary, then goes on to suggest that the other piece of evidence that Justice White didn't have was a statement by the Prime Minister, premiers, and chief ministers that they expect this to be confidential—as though a statement by a prime minister or a statement by a premier that something ought to be confidential makes it law. Well, I'm sorry: it doesn't. You can't have a prime minister saying: 'This is my view, and that is law.' That's not how it works. For it to be law, it has to pass through both chambers in this building, not just be a statement. It doesn't matter whether it's by the Prime Minister or a premier. Ms Angie McKenzie clearly has no idea of how the law works, even. It's a disgrace that this sort of material comes out of Prime Minister and Cabinet, an organisation that's supposed to be the pre-eminent department in the Commonwealth. I actually think Ms McKenzie has breached her obligations under the Public Service Act. What's happened is she has not just trimmed her political sails, she's actually put up her Liberal Party spinnaker to make this decision.</para>
<para>I see Senator Duniam is shaking his head at me: how do you get a situation, Senator, where a judge says—</para>
<para><inline font-style="italic">A government senator interjecting</inline>—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I am having a go at a public servant—because this public servant is incompetent. It's incompetent. And public servants ought to know that if they do something as stupid as what she has done, I'm going to call it out. And I'm going to do that over and over again. I respect public servants, but not when they are politicised like this. Justice White made a determination that national cabinet was not a committee of the federal cabinet. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to work out that it is not appropriate for a public servant to say: 'Disregard what the judge says.' That is not okay. The problem we've got now—and this goes to the reason why this question ought to have been answered—is that the number is somewhere above 50. Fifty applications have been made to PM&C for access to national cabinet documents since the decision was handed down by Justice White. And that's likely to be 50 decisions wrongly made by PM&C that go off to the Information Commissioner and clog up the entire system. And that may well suit those on the other side of the chamber, who love secrecy. They don't want to have anything disclosed to the public. The news is that everything that a government does is paid for by the public and is supposed to be for the benefit of the public, and the public are entitled to see it, except in very narrow circumstances. This is just an abuse.</para>
<para>So, yes, Senator, I am going to name a public official, particularly one who has behaved in such an abhorrent way.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">A government senator interjecting—</inline></para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If you want to file me up you're welcome to. This is just wrong. You ought to be standing up and agreeing with me that we respect what our judicial officers say.</para>
<para>The government says, 'Oh, well, the AAT is not binding upon the executive.' Let's look at who was involved in this. The matter went to the Information Commissioner. She bumped it up the chain, saying: 'This is an important matter. It needs to be sorted out by the AAT.' It got to the AAT. The AAT recognised its importance and assigned a judicial officer as the presiding member. It wasn't as though bush lawyer Rex Patrick argued the case. It was Geoffrey Watson SC, a most eminent barrister with a long history, a gentleman and someone who knows the law inside out, and on the other side was Mr Berger QC from PM&C. This wasn't a kangaroo court. Serious legal minds dealing with this issue were overturned by someone in PM&C, a public official who ought absolutely to respect the way the rule of law works in this country and who should absolutely be respecting exactly the authority of a justice in making a statutory interpretation.</para>
<para>So, yes, I am naming Ms Angie McKenzie. I'm naming her as incompetent and I'm naming her as politicised. She has been directed to make a decision contrary to law because it suits the Prime Minister, because the Prime Minister doesn't want anyone to know about anything that happens in national cabinet. He doesn't want anyone to know about all of the decisions that have been made about the National COVID-19 Coordination Commission or what the Australian Health Protection Principal Committee might have been saying about masks or protecting children or vaccinations. They are all things that we ought to be able to see. National cabinet is a meeting of the federal government and the states. It's an intergovernmental meeting. The FOI Act actually protects those sorts of meetings. It just doesn't give a blanket protection. It's not controversial. I'm not saying we should open the floodgates, and neither was Justice White. He made the point that there are protections for intergovernmental exchanges that are sensitive, that might give rise to a concern, but, in relation to the minutes that I originally requested, they were released to me.</para>
<para>There are a number of organisations, journalists, NGOs and people who are trying to get access to see what's happened inside the national cabinet, who are now getting frustrated by an official. Every one of those decisions—because she's ignored them because she's incompetent and she's politicised—will now have to go through a process that will take a year. It will take a year because your government hasn't properly resourced the Office of the Australian Information Commissioner. When the Labor Party set up that office there were three commissioners: the Information Commissioner, the FOI Commissioner and the Privacy Commissioner. Tony Abbott tried to defund the whole organisation, and we were left with one, the Information Commissioner, trying to do the work of three. Finally, with some arm twisting, I've managed to help get us an FOI commissioner, but we're still without a privacy commissioner. The whole organisation is underfunded because the whole plan of the government is: 'FOI request? We make a cavalier claim, it goes to the Information Commissioner and, two years later, an answer pops out. If you still need to delay it beyond the election, you appeal to the AAT at taxpayers' expense.' It's a disgrace, and the fact that Ms Angie McKenzie is in on it is just disgusting, and that's why I am calling her out.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You understand as well, Senator Van, that parliamentary privilege is not my privilege. It's the privilege of my constituents that allow me to say in this chamber what people can't say outside of it. It's a really important democratic principle. You need to understand exactly how this thing works and why it is important. Have you just not listened to the Leader of the Government in the Senate and the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate? No, you didn't listen to them, did you? They were just talking about the importance of parliamentary privilege. You ought to understand it. You ought to respect what happens in this place. This is absolutely a disgrace. There's no other word for it. The government has directed an official to apply secrecy in contravention to the ruling of a judicial officer. I've never seen that before, and I think it breaks the rule of law.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Patrick. I remind you in future to direct all your comments to the chair.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Prime Minister</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answers given by the Minister representing the Prime Minister (Senator Birmingham) to questions asked by Senators Marielle Smith, Wong and Grogan.</para></quote>
<para>I want to speak about the lies of the Prime Minister that we've seen in recent months but particularly in recent days. We all know about the Prime Minister's ability to bend the truth. We saw it first with simple things like his football team. He claimed he was a Cronulla Sharks supporter when we knew all along he was a rugby union supporter. Deputy President, I know you come from Western Australia and that rugby union and rugby league are not particularly strong sports over there, but in New South Wales and Queensland these are important distinctions, and for the Prime Minister to mislead the Australian people about who he really supports and who his football team is is very worrying. Of course, it went much further during the period of the sports rorts scandal. You will be very familiar with that, Deputy President, where we had the colour-coded document and documents being transferred between Senator McKenzie and the Prime Minister to direct funds that were supposed to be for women's sports around the countryside to marginal seats that the government was trying to win.</para>
<para>But there's been a more recent big lie from the Prime Minister, and I want to talk about that. That's in the form of the legislation that will come forward to us one of these days about voter identification, the so-called voter integrity law. What's the big lie here? The big lie is that there is something wrong with the Australian electoral system, that there are all these people in the community who, at election time, are multiple voters. It is simply not true. At the last election there was a total of 2,000 people who voted more than once. Out of a population of almost 16 million people who voted at the election, there were only 2,000 who voted more than once. The evidence from the Australian Electoral Commission is that most of those people who voted more than once were over the age of 80 and, in many cases, English was their second language. We do not have a problem with multiple voting in this country. In fact, the AEC commissioner, in evidence recently in the estimates process, described the issue as 'vanishingly small'. So why is it that we find the Prime Minister saying that that problem requires every single Australian, 16 million voters likely at the next election, to come along on election day and show some form of identification?</para>
<para>For 120 years, Australians have got themselves on the electoral roll; they've gone along on election day; they've queued up and perhaps had a sausage—like we had this morning with the protest outside the front of parliament—they've got their name struck off, been given a ballot paper and gone along to vote. Now, for the first time in our electoral history, 16 million people are going to be required to produce some identification before they're allowed to vote.</para>
<para>Why would you do this? One of the clear consequences of that, of course, is you're going to be spending a lot more time at the polling booth, perhaps double, perhaps three times as much time as you're spending there at the moment. In the worst pandemic in Australian history, when you're trying to keep social distancing, why on earth would you want to keep people at the polling booth longer than is absolutely required to exercise their democratic vote? I'll tell you the answer. This government is so worried about the next election, so worried about their polling results, that they want to suppress Australian voting numbers. They don't want anybody who is likely to vote against them— (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note of the answers today with reference to the electoral law amendments that are before this particular chamber. There are many bills before the parliament which have been drafted up in response to JSCEM inquiries or the inquiry into the last federal election.</para>
<para>There is no question that, over the long run, the expectation that people wouldn't have to provide any sort of ID at a polling place is really out of date and out of touch. During this pandemic Australians have become so accustomed to providing some form of ID—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bragg, I appreciate Senator Farrell did make reference to the electoral laws and he probably overstated that. I'm listening to where you're going with this but, if I might remind you, the questions asked by Labor Senators Marielle Smith, Wong and Grogan went to examples of where the Prime Minister has said one thing and later said another thing. That's really the characterisation of those three questions; Senator Farrell was using the voter laws as a reference. I appreciate he did go on a little, but, as he only had 30 seconds to go, I allowed that through.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Deputy President. I was here for the last few minutes of the statement, and it was all about the electoral amendment. I'm happy to talk about any anything. In relation to integrity in government—I think that's where you're wanting to go—much has been said about these commissions and what sorts of arrangements we should have in Canberra. I don't think calling it an 'integrity commission' is the way to go. I'm much more of the view it should be focused on corruption. I would be minded to call it an anti-corruption commission. That's what I think it should be focused on—any form of corruption.</para>
<para>I think people have different definitions of integrity. Integrity is important in government. There are institutions which are in operation all the time which ensure that there is scrutiny of government. In fact, the Senate plays a very important role here because the Senate runs the estimates process and it runs committees of inquiry. The Select Committee on COVID-19, although I haven't been a member, has done some important work over the course of this pandemic. It has brought to light matters of public interest—really material matters—through its public hearings and through its submission process, such as on the vaccination program and on border matters.</para>
<para>I am of the view that the Victorian model would be a preferable model for us to have in Canberra, as opposed to the New South Wales model. But I wouldn't call it an integrity commission; I would be calling it an anticorruption commission. My understanding is that under the Victorian model there is a process whereby a brief of evidence needs to be established before coercive powers are deployed, and I think that is a reasonable proposition. I think a reasonable body of work should be done before anything else occurs.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bragg, I'm sorry to interrupt you again, but the three questions from Labor senators—from Senators Smith, Wong and Grogan—went to the Prime Minister; they were focused on the Prime Minister, and comments he had made and then later made a different comment about. So—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. Well, as I said, I think you're talking about matters of integrity here, so I've—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it certainly is about integrity, and it was focused on the Prime Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>referred to integrity, whether it's voter integrity or whether it's matters of how we ensure that there is confidence in our system of government. I don't think that getting into personal attacks is the way to go, and I won't be engaging in that sort of business here. I think that only diminishes the public debate here. I don't think this is a partisan comment to make at all, but I think if you look at the way question time runs here or in the House, it really is low-rent stuff, and I think it is a poor reflection on us as an institution. It is way too scripted, and I don't think all this personal attack stuff does anything for anyone.</para>
<para>I would say, though, that I've been very impressed with the work done by the Senate committees. I've been very impressed with the quality of the public servants who run these secretariats. In my experience, the Senate committees take the Senate and therefore the Australian people into places that other institutions don't go, and we are able to hear people's voices. So, I think we do incredible work here on behalf of the Australian people, but I don't think we are focusing on the right stuff when we are engaging in endless personal attacks. Of course there's a role to look at people's public records and what they say. But I don't think getting into personal attacks is the way to go, and I won't be engaging in that.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's always a delight to follow Senator Bragg. That was quite the ride, through the different areas that you thought we were talking about. But thank you for your contribution. I want to go to one of Senator Bragg's points. It's a point that was raised in question time as well, in response to the questions asked by me and by other Labor senators, and it was the government's accusing us of engaging in personal attacks. I want to lend my support to what Senator Bragg has said: of course there is no room for personal attacks on individual senators in this place. But these are not questions of personal attacks; they're not questions of personality. They are questions that go to integrity, questions about the way government is run. And what diminishes the debate in this country, as well as personal attacks on individuals, is dishonesty in the public discourse. That's why we're asking these questions. That's why we were prosecuting these questions: because from this Prime Minister we've seen a pattern of dishonesty since he's taken the prime ministership, and indeed perhaps long before that, too—a pattern of dishonesty, which goes to a question of integrity, which runs through the heart of how this government is run, which goes to the heart of how this government deals with issues of accountability, which goes to the heart of how this government approaches issues of scrutiny. So they're relevant questions, and I don't think it's fair to say that they diminish the debate. It's the dishonesty that diminishes the debate.</para>
<para>In question time today, when we posed these questions about the mistruths told by the Prime Minister, we saw members of the government wilt, delicate as flowers. They were so sensitive and so delicate they couldn't even answer the questions. I get why you feel a little delicate, little petals. You feel scammed too. You feel scammed by this Prime Minister. You had one bloke once, right? He was Prime Minister. And then you had another bloke who wanted to be Prime Minister. You guys weren't too keen on him, so you looked through your ranks and got the guy from marketing. You gave him a crack, only to learn that, when it comes to the one thing you thought he was good at—marketing and spin—he can't actually prosecute. He's missing the point of marketing: brand consistency. To be a good marketer, you've got to be able to run with brand consistency, which means you've got to have a consistent message on what you're selling. The Prime Minister can't get his story straight about anything. He can't even get his story straight in question time on one issue. Then he has to come back and correct the record when no-one's looking, when no-one's in the chamber, because that would be pretty embarrassing for the Prime Minister. It's interesting, for a marketing guy, if he can't handle that. So I get why you're feeling a little delicate and a little precious about these questions. You feel ripped off that you went for the dude from marketing and he can't even do that job properly. It's pretty disappointing.</para>
<para>This Prime Minister cannot tell the truth. He cannot tell the truth, and he falls over himself. He can't even tell the truth about telling the truth. That's embarrassing. Worse than being embarrassing, it goes to issues of integrity. That's why it is perfectly reasonable for us to raise these questions in question time, when it goes to integrity, accountability and scrutiny. This government seems allergic to all of those things. It seems allergic to scrutiny and allergic to accountability. You let mistruth run through the heart of your government. And I agree, Senator Bragg, that in this place, in this chamber, we should hold ourselves to a higher standard than others, which means that it's more than appropriate for us to call out that dishonesty. It's appropriate for us to call out the examples of dishonesty, not just the one I referred to in my question to the Minister representing the Prime Minister but also the questions Senator Grogan asked about Ms Holgate and the questions that Senator Wong asked about the Prime Minister's dealings with the President of France. Indeed, ask him how he feels about the Prime Minister's integrity. These are legitimate questions about accountability and scrutiny. I appreciate you feel a bit delicate in answering them, but it's more than reasonable that we pose them. (<inline font-style="italic">Time expired</inline>)</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I assure Senator Marielle Smith that I'll be anything but delicate in this. What we've seen today is marketing spin at its greatest. We've seen the Labor Party's marketing plans exposed in the parliament by Senator Birmingham, after the attacks by those opposite and now this take note of answers motion. They are going to go after the Prime Minister and they are going to highlight that he has been slow and late on vaccines, climate change, bushfires and financial support for Victoria. Well, let me set the record straight on this, because we're anything but slow or late on any of these.</para>
<para>On 5 November last year, the Prime Minister put out an announcement that he had already ordered 135 million doses of vaccine, more than enough for five doses for every Australian. Then, last week, in my home state of Victoria, Premier Andrews said in the media that the Prime Minister forgot to order the vaccines. We know that's a lie. We know that the Premier of Victoria lied about that. On 21 February this year, the Prime Minister announced that the Australian government had 'a comprehensive plan to offer COVID-19 vaccines to all Australians by the end of October 2021'. And I think we've seen that, by the end of October—or maybe a day or two after—that was done. We hit 80 per cent vaccinated. More than 91 per cent of the eligible population over 16 are now protected. No-one said that the rollout of the vaccine had to be a straight line. Of course it was going to ramp up. We had no vaccine. There were countries that demanded and needed vaccine more than we did, and they got it. But we met our promise to the Australian people. The Prime Minister made a promise to the Australian people and we met it.</para>
<para>Our record on the vaccine rollout is better than the UK, better than the US and better than New Zealand. So with more vaccines going into arms every day, it's likely that we'll overtake more vaccines. The Labor Party's position on vaccines is woeful. The Labor Party has endorsed a candidate for the seat of Higgins who spent all of last year and most of this year putting out misinformation and creating vaccine hesitancy about the AstraZeneca vaccine, saying it was a population-level experiment with high stakes attached to it. Personally, I'm not comfortable with that approach at all. She also said there is a possibility that the AstraZeneca vaccine will be rolled out to 10 million adults but we still might be vulnerable when we relax our international borders. We know that's not true. Would the Labor candidate for Higgins have voted with Pauline Hanson's One Nation party yesterday? It sounds like it, from this. She has promoted vaccine hesitancy all the way through. We can see that Labor has had a really ordinary run on that.</para>
<para>I'm happy to talk to the financial support for Victoria. The Morrison government has provided over $4 billion to Victoria through COVID economic support. That is more per capita than any other state in the country—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, I remind you that the questions today from Senators Smith, Wong and Grogan went to the Prime Minister.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And I'm answering that completely. I'm happy to take that point of order because I'm being directly relevant. I'm addressing each one of these.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You were. You started off—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm correcting the record—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, it's not an argument. I'm simply directing you to the questions that were asked by Labor senators. You started off on track but, over the last 30 or 40 seconds, you've gone off track, and I'm simply pointing out to you what the comments were.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Dean Smith</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In a contribution of five minutes, I don't think going off the track for 30 to 40 seconds warrants an intervention by the chair.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Smith, it's not a debating point. I am simply directing the senator to the take note questions.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator VAN</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's exactly what I'm doing. Labor is attacking the Prime Minister on a record that cannot be attacked. He has done exactly what he said he would do and what we would do. We said we'd take on climate change. I'm going again to your document—the one that you're all clearly following in the chamber today and we're going to see for the next two weeks until the election. You're clearly going to go after the Prime Minister. This is clearly your tactic, to your point, Madam Deputy President. This is your tactic that I'm correcting the record on. We went to the election and we said we'd take 26 to 28 per cent as our Paris target for our NDC, and we are on track to meet that. The Prime Minister is keeping his promise on that. He's keeping his promise on meeting and beating the Paris target. We've already projected that we'll hit 35 per cent. So every one of your points in your marketing plan—when Senator Smith talks about marketing and spin, we can see yours. We can see straight through your tactics. It's not going to work. The people of Australia are not going to believe it. They aren't going to stand for it, and you'll see the results in the election next year. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, we will hold the Prime Minister to account for his lack of integrity and we will continue to do that. The pattern appears to be: say something misleading, duck, weave, obfuscate and then dig your heels in when you're called out on it. We saw just yesterday in the other place that when asked about his infamous trip to Hawaii the Prime Minister told the parliament that he had sent a text message to the Leader of the Opposition telling him where he was going. That is not true. It is very untrue. What he said was he was going on leave. Leave is not a destination.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Van, I would ask you to withdraw that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Van</name>
    <name.id>283601</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GROGAN</name>
    <name.id>296331</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Anthony Albanese did receive a text, that is true, but it did not mention where the Prime Minister was going. It did not mention his tropical destination. It did not mention that he was travelling overseas—a point that you would think would be rather relevant. But what is astounding here is that this was unprompted. There was no reason to even mention that text message—none whatsoever. But when facing some political hot water—again, a duck, a weave, an obfuscation. Trying to get around a particular point the Prime Minister brought this text message up of his own volition and then inappropriately and inaccurately referenced it.</para>
<para>What I also find very interesting here is that the political gain that could have occurred or the personal gain that could have occurred by Anthony Albanese actually declaring that he had received it was not used at all. Anthony Albanese has a deep integrity and sees very clearly that a personal message, a private message, is just that. He did not mention it. That was two years ago. In two years he has not brought it up.</para>
<para>The contrast here between these two people could not be bigger. We have Anthony Albanese not mentioning these texts because private correspondence should be private and then we have the Prime Minister, Mr Morrison, making really poor calls with some of these things. We only have to look at his disastrous diplomatic experience with the French President—leaking those text messages. The leader of one country, of this country, leaking a text message, a private text message, from the leader of another country. The lack of integrity is woeful. The significant serious lack of integrity of the person who we have leading this country is despicable. How on earth are the Australian people supposed to trust him?</para>
<para>Then we have the whole saga with former Australia Post chief executive Christine Holgate. Mr Morrison set off a chain of events in question time that ended with the highly regarded chief executive being forced out of her position, costing taxpayers more than a million dollars when she was awarded a termination payment. The Prime Minister attempted to gaslight the nation, making out like Ms Holgate had left the organisation of her own volition. She did not.</para>
<para>We had the whole Brian Houston fiasco where the PM tried to get his mate into an official White House function and even the Trump administration wouldn't have him. The lies that went on after that—the Prime Minister said he hadn't done it. When it finally came out in the American press that he had absolutely tried to get his mate in he then had to backtrack, duck, weave and find some way of wriggling out of it. His commentary was, 'I don't comment on gossip or stories about other stories.' That's hardly integrity for the people of Australia. He then went on that he just didn't want to be distracted by it. The true answer is he didn't want to answer the question. He didn't want to provide that clarity and honesty to the people of Australia. He then said that 'at the end of the day it was not a significant matter'. I beg to disagree. He finished it off by saying, 'people have not asked me about it for months'. Does that make it not an important issue? I think when it comes to the integrity of the Prime Minister of this country I would fundamentally disagree.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Gas Industry</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Families and Social Services and Minister for Women's Safety (Senator Ruston) to a question without notice asked by Senator Cox today relating to the Western Australian gas industry.</para></quote>
<para>The approval of the Woodside Scarborough project is a dark and devastating day for our climate, our planet and our future. As a mother of two daughters I shudder to think what this will mean for us and for our children in 2030. We have projects like this being funded, encouraged and endorsed by governments of this country. The pollution from this Scarborough Pluto project is equal to 15 coal-fired power stations—not over the life of the project but every single year of that project. The emissions from this facility equal around five per cent of the current total emissions every year in WA.</para>
<para>What Woodside have put out is greenwashing. The scientific evidence is pretty clear that this project is actually going to be worse than Adani. It is devastating for our climate. It is devastating for our marine life. This project is going to impact on the coral reefs, the whales and their migration patterns, the turtles and the dugongs in this area. It's devastating for the traditional owners of that country, who are trying to protect country. As a First Nations person who has walked on that country, it is devastating. It is devastating for their water sources and the traditional foods that they rely on in this area.</para>
<para>Scarborough will further destroy the Murujuga area, the world's largest and oldest collection of First Nations rock art. This includes the first-ever recording of a human face. This area is quite significant because it's nowhere else in this country. We have one of the oldest living cultures in the world and still we don't respect and we don't want to protect. I want to make sure that it doesn't get ruined by development and the mining and the resources sectors that our government protects.</para>
<para>It is also being considered for World Heritage listing. Hundreds of these rock carvings have already been destroyed or removed for gas development, so we need to save the ones that are there. The rock art is being eaten away by highly acidic gases being released from the existing Pluto plant that is there. Sadly, this is going to be expanded. It is going to be expanded because it was approved yesterday. What is happening to the Murujuga art is described as Juukan Gorge in slow motion. This rock art lays out in the elements. It is not in caves or rock-shelters, as it was at Juukan. Protecting that environment from those gases is our collective responsibility.</para>
<para>It's not just about the rock art that exists there. This is the site of the seven sisters dreaming story, the songline that goes from the Murujuga area right across Central Australia. It goes across this country. It tells the story of the First Peoples of this country, which no-one in this place respects, clearly. They don't care. They keep approving for it to be destroyed.</para>
<para>If you dig down in that country, you would be able to see the songline. You would be able to help the people of the Murujuga area recover and heal this place. But: 'No, we're not doing that. We have built an agreement.' When they built the agreement with the traditional owners group in this area they said, 'There's going to be train here, just like Hamersley Iron have built.' But, no, this is a gas transport train. It's not an iron ore train. Still we have Woodside say, 'No, there's no direct impact on First Nations cultural heritage there.' They haven't even updated their section 18 approval since 2007. This is cultural genocide in action, people.</para>
<para>This is where we get our native title connection. We can prove our unbroken continuation to culture through cultural heritage. How is it that Woodside are getting away with this? No doubt, it's about their dirty donations and it's contrary to what the minister has said during question time—that these gas policies are being driven by big corporations like Woodside. Their donations are what they rely on and, just like the <inline font-style="italic">Northern Endeavour</inline> project, they'll abandon them and we will cover the clean-up costs. This has risk, risk, risk written all over it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notices given yesterday on behalf of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I withdraw notices of motion proposing the disallowance of four legislative instruments made under the Industry Research and Development Act 1986.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Waters?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Waters</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President, I'm seeking your assistance. I think that one of those four has been transferred into my name and I'm intending to move it. May I have your guidance as to whether I should move that at this present time?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My understanding is that pursuant to the motion passed this morning the matter you're concerned about will come on following the placing of business, but I'll just confirm that with the Clerk. Yes, that's correct.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any of those proposals at the request of any senator. There being none, we will move on.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—At the request of Senator Polley, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Polley for 22 November to 2 December, for personal reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>REGULATIONS AND DETERMINATIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Industry Research and Development (Carbon Capture, Use and Storage Development Program) Instrument 2021</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Disallowance</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Industry Research and Development (Carbon Capture, Use and Storage Development Program) Instrument 2021, made under the <inline font-style="italic">Industry Research and Development Act 1986</inline>, be disallowed [F2021L00547].</para></quote>
<para>It's a bit like <inline font-style="italic">Groundhog Day</inline>, really, isn't it? The Greens are in here, once again trying to stop this government from giving public money to big coal and gas to open up new ventures—right in the aftermath of Glasgow and when we're in a climate crisis, and just as those same companies have donated generously to the re-election funds not only of this government but, sadly, also the opposition.</para>
<para>So here we are again and—spoiler alert!—we'll be back here again tomorrow on a different disallowance to stop giving yet more taxpayer money to yet more coal and gas companies, this time to frack the Beetaloo Basin against the wishes of First Nations communities. But today it's a different legislative instrument to give free taxpayer money to wealthy gas and coal companies. And today, with a vote on this disallowance, the Senate has the chance to stop $50 million going to coal and gas companies for that mythical technology of carbon capture and storage.</para>
<para>An honourable senator: The unicorn!</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The unicorn indeed! Combined with today's $50 million and tomorrow's $50 million on the Beetaloo disallowance, which we urge the Labor opposition and the crossbenches to stand with us on, that's $100 million. We senators could stop $100 million of taxpayer dollars, public money, flowing into the offshore bank accounts of coal and gas corporations. We could do that here in the coming days. And I might note that those same corporations often don't pay a cent of tax in Australia because they exploit loopholes that ordinary Australians don't have access to. And those same corporations pour millions into the re-election coffers of the big political parties. The instrument that we're seeking to disallow today would set up the Carbon Capture, Use and Storage Development Fund. Grant recipients have already been announced for the fund and—surprise, surprise—some of Australia's biggest polluters and this government's largest donors make the list. Political capture and storage is a proven technology even if carbon capture and storage is far from it.</para>
<para>Let's have a look at all the money this government is handing over to coal and gas corporations through laws and regulations that are before this parliament right now. There is $15 million to major donor Santos, which is also a deeply embedded lobbyist that often cycles staff in and out of the offices of MPs and back to work for Santos again. I might note that the $15 million Santos will receive under these various instruments is a pretty good return on investment for them, considering they've made $2.1 million in political donations over the past nine years. Then they get back $15 million from the taxpayer. That is a very good return on investment. I don't know if you'd get that anywhere else.</para>
<para>Also under these instruments, $5 million would go to a subsidiary of Australia's largest coal exporter, Glencore. I might add, they're another donor. They also have a reputation for tax avoidance. Boral will get a few million dollars too. The chairman of Boral, Ryan Stokes—the son of billionaire Kerry Stokes—asked the Treasurer to be the best man at his wedding. That's a nice little cosy relationship. There are cash handouts for Santos but also for companies like Beach Energy, which is another Kerry Stokes company, to access billions of dollars of public money through the Emissions Reduction Fund, with the government paying the polluter to, maybe, store just a small portion of their emissions.</para>
<para>In yet more taxpayer larks, the Beetaloo fracking grant—which we'll seek to disallow tomorrow—will give Liberal aligned gas company Empire Energy $21 million of public money. But Santos also have their hand out under that fund, alongside two other secretive companies operating out of tax havens, for another $29 million. There's also $30 million for Australian Industrial Energy, which is wholly owned by Australia's second richest billionaire, Andrew Forrest, to build a new gas-fired power station at Port Kembla.</para>
<para>A bill's moving through the House right now that would formally relieve major gas donor Woodside of around $1 billion in liabilities for clean-up costs, for their old rig, and spread that across the entire industry. It's that same Woodside company that my colleague Senator Cox just pointed out has had some favours done for them by the state Labor and federal Liberal governments in the approval of the latest climate disaster that would be the equivalent of 15 coal-fired power stations in a climate crisis.</para>
<para>Political capture clearly works, but we know that carbon capture and storage does not. Its whole purpose is to pretend that we can keep burning fossil fuels. We cannot. That is perfectly clear, after the Glasgow pact, which this government signed on to while it was there and has been crab walking away from ever since it returned and Mr Barnaby Joyce had another tantrum. Carbon capture is the perfect excuse for coal and gas companies and their wholly owned subsidiaries in the Liberal and National parties to pretend that we don't have to worry about the climate crisis or climate collapse. If those big coal and gas companies truly thought that carbon capture was the future, surely they'd be putting some of their own money into it. Instead, they spend that money on donations, and they get the taxpayers to pick up the bill.</para>
<para>In June 2004, Prime Minister Howard said that he was providing $1.5 billion 'to demonstrate breakthrough technologies'. Seventeen years later we are still throwing public money at coal and gas companies, hoping for this technology to break through, while clean technologies have thrived and grown around the world and work and create jobs, often in regional communities where they are needed. Just one carbon capture and storage project has been developed in Australia, despite billions of public money having been thrown at that process. Chevron got $60 million in public funding for that one and it's broken down more times than a 1980s Datsun. CCS is a waste of money. It's not even a waste of those companies' money; it's a waste of taxpayer money, because those companies won't waste their own money on it.</para>
<para>We've got the solutions that we need to solve the climate crisis. We've got the wind, the solar, the batteries, the electric vehicles and the green hydrogen. We've got those technologies. We've got that innovation. We have those skills onshore and those resources. All we need is a government with ambition to take on the coal and gas corporations and to create the jobs of the future in clean, renewable energies—jobs that will last, jobs that will safeguard the livelihoods of those in currently fossil-fuel-reliant communities, jobs that won't risk the health of those workers and jobs from which they won't be sacked when their big coal company mechanises and automates.</para>
<para>In Glasgow, Australia signed up to the Glasgow climate pact along with nearly 200 other countries. A critical part of that agreement—that same agreement that, as I said, the government signed up to while it was there and, on return, has been distancing itself from ever since—is to phase down fossil fuel subsidies. You'll recall that the G7 had also earlier resolved to phase out public subsidies for fossil fuels, from memory, within the next three years.</para>
<para>So I say to my colleagues on the opposition benches, on the crossbench and in government: let's start the end of those fossil fuel subsidies now. Let's disallow this $50 million slush fund for big coal and gas corporations and use that money for real climate action instead. Let's use that money to work with those currently fossil-fuel-reliant communities to plan that transition, because it's coming, and, if we don't plan for it, it will be those workers and those communities that suffer from your lack of reality and your lack of planning and the fact that you are completely in hock to the fossil fuel sector. Let's use that time and that money not to give handouts to your political donors that are cooking the planet but to work with communities and transition to a job-rich clean energy future that will reduce people's power bills and provide work. That's the kind of leadership that the country deserves.</para>
<para>We're heading to an election. The Greens have a proud plan to fund a massive investment in renewable energy—publicly funded, great job creation, tackling the climate crisis, protecting what's left of our Great Barrier Reef, because half of it has already gone. It's not just bleached; it's dead, after cumulative coral bleaching episodes. This is the choice people have to make, and the Senate is going to be crucial for that, because, at the moment, we've got a government that's completely for sale to the fossil fuel industry. We've got an opposition that continues to take their donations too, I might add, and they should stop accepting those, as well. And we've got One Nation, who take money from just about anyone and just tick off on whatever the government proposes.</para>
<para>The next election is going to be crucial. The climate cannot wait for some leadership and for some decisions that are made on the basis of science and in the public interest, not on the basis of a future fancy lobbying job or of a big political donation.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will of course be opposing this motion. Contrary to much of what's just been said, the funding is provided to support six carbon capture projects around the country which will create close to 470 direct jobs—jobs that the Australian Greens clearly don't care about. It will also, contrary to the assertions by Senator Waters, deliver $412 million of investment on top of what's provided through this program. Much of this occurs in a part of Australia that the Greens certainly don't care about—regional Australia—as demonstrated by what we just heard. It will reduce emissions from coal generation, concrete and gas production, amongst other sources of emissions, something we actually need in order to have a functioning economy in this country. That's the reality that we live in—something they tend to ignore down there on that thin wedge of the Senate.</para>
<para>Carbon capture and storage is recognised by the Biden administration, the United Kingdom, the EU, Japan, Singapore, Canada, Korea and many other countries, as it's an important emissions reduction technology. Of course, the IEA have said recently that a failure to support CCS would leave the world with 'very limited chances to reach our climate goals, if any'—again, a dose of reality in this debate.</para>
<para>If successful, this motion would stop these six projects in their tracks and abandon workers in Australia's traditional industries and, importantly, also in regional Australia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor opposes the disallowance. Unlike the Greens party, we are not ideological on carbon capture, use and storage. We support any technology that stacks up scientifically and commercially. On carbon capture, use and storage, as with other technologies, that judgement will be made by the experts and markets, not by Greens party stunts in the Senate. The program should be allowed to proceed, and Labor will oppose the disallowance.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the instrument be disallowed.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:34]<br />(The President—Senator Brockman) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Cox, D.</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                  <name>McKim, N. J. (Teller)</name>
                  <name>Patrick, R. L.</name>
                  <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                  <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E.</name>
                  <name>Askew, W.</name>
                  <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                  <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                  <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                  <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C. A.</name>
                  <name>Griff, S.</name>
                  <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                  <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H. A.</name>
                  <name>Hume, J.</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J.</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S. J.</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z. M.</name>
                  <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                  <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                  <name>Stoker, A. J.</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Transparent Patient Outcomes) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="LKU" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Transparent Patient Outcomes) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the <inline font-style="italic">Health Insurance Act 1973</inline>, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum and seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">This bill is designed to provide health consumers with more transparency, self-determination and the ability to make an informed choice when considering a health procedure.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Health Insurance Legislation Amendment (Transparent Patient Outcomes) Bill 2021 will enable the Minister to create and maintain Transparent Patient Outcomes registers for a range of medical specialties that will allow consumers to view the performance of individual practitioners and patient outcomes for procedures they are poised to undergo.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public disclosure of surgical performance outcomes, in the transparent way intended by this bill, began with the YourIVFSuccess database launched in February 2021. The portal allows Australians considering fertility treatment to objectively view the performance of fertility clinics across Australia. This is an Australian first. That database empowers prospective patients to make an informed choice about their treating clinic by allowing them to view and compare objective and standardised data rather than forcing them to rely on referrals, selective self-reported data from clinics, and hearsay.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This vastly improved transparency is a model that should be applied to other surgical specialties, whether it be gynaecological surgery, orthopaedic, cardiothoracic or plastic and reconstructive surgery. Any surgical speciality would be appropriate for a public register of surgical performance and outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This bill would enable the Minster to make rules to create a Transparent Patient Outcomes register that would include information such as the number and type of surgical procedures performed by a practitioner, their surgical revision rate, their patient mortality rate, any prosthesis device they may use, patient data and any other information deemed relevant to that specialty. This information would also be available at the facility level.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is research to demonstrate that practitioners who perform fewer surgeries of particular types compared to their peers have increased revision rates and poorer patient outcomes - see for instance, 'Relation between surgeon volume and risk of complications after total hip arthroplasty', published in the BMJ in May 2014<inline font-style="italic">[ ]</inline>, which found that patients whose surgeons had performed 35 or fewer such procedures in the previous year had an increased risk of dislocation and early revision.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As such, it would be of value for a prospective patient to know whether or not their intended surgeon has extensive experience in the particular surgery they need to undergo - and in particular, whether the surgeon has a comparatively high revision rate. Having this information before undergoing surgery is in the patient's own best interests.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Such a database would provide objective comparable statistics and would provide prospective patients factual information through which they could exercise greater self-determination in their choice of practitioner (rather than relying on trust, assurance or referrals) and the database could also serve to reassure an anxious patient.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">One option for such a registry may be joint replacement surgery. Orthopaedic surgeons perform a significant proportion of all surgeries and thus affect a significant proportion of patients. According to the AIHW's report on elective surgery waiting times, 15% of all hospital admissions in 2017-18 were for orthopaedic surgery (including knee and hip replacements).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Given the life impacts of poor prostheses and surgical revisions on patients, there is substantial public value in a Transparent Patient Outcomes register for joint replacement surgery, among other surgical specialities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Orthopaedic surgeon performance data and patient outcomes data is already collected in the Australian Orthopaedic Association National Joint Replacement Registry (AOANJRR). It holds information on all hip, knee, shoulder, elbow, wrist, ankle and spinal disc replacement surgery performed in public and private hospitals as well as patient reported measures of pre- and post-surgery pain and outcomes of surgery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Public and private hospitals submit their joint replacement data to the AOANJRR monthly using specific forms which are completed in theatre at the time of surgery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Core funding for the Registry is provided via the Department of Health on a cost-recovery basis through a levy on prosthesis manufacturers and distributors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">However, reuse of the AOANJRR data is currently prohibited. This data is unable to be shared or used for any purpose beyond the AOANJRR database as it is collected as part of a Quality Assurance Activity under the <inline font-style="italic">Health Insurance Act 1973</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the <inline font-style="italic">Health Insurance Act 1973</inline>, data or documents 'brought into existence solely for the purposes of a declared quality assurance activity' cannot be shared or repurposed for any other use. The intention behind this is to provide protection from civil liability claims but it also blocks other useful purposes, such as that intended by this bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Transparent Patient Outcomes bill overcomes this administrative hurdle by creating an exemption for disclosure of information that is made in accordance with the Transparent Patient Outcomes rules while retaining the core liability protections intended by the Act's disclosure prohibitions. This minor amendment avoids the need for the same data to be collected twice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill also makes clear that data on a registry cannot be used in court proceedings. This is to ensure that the database is used as intended - to allow consumers to make an informed choice - and not for further unintended purposes. In addition, FOI applicants or other recipients of registry information (which may or may not be in the public domain) could not later attempt to use registry data in legal proceedings. The bill also seeks to provide an exemption for secondary disclosure of quality assurance data contained on a registry in order to avoid any risk that public servants and others handling registry data may inadvertently breach the law should they, for example, supply quality assurance data collected under the rules as part of a Freedom of Information request.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To ensure the data contained on a registry does not breach privacy laws, the bill requires the Minister to consult with the Information Commissioner on the making of the rules, and the bill will also provide for corrections of inaccurate information.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill will also operate prospectively and will only apply to quality assurance activity data which is gathered or which becomes known from commencement.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The bill endeavours to strike a balance between providing useful information to guide patients, providing ongoing protections to those who, in good faith, provide, collect and manage performance and outcomes data, and also endeavours to ensure registry information is not appropriated in unintended ways, such as for court proceedings.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australians have a right to data that allows them to make the most informed choice possible in the interests of their own health. We should not shy away from such public accountability and transparency.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Food Standards Australia New Zealand</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services and the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture and Northern Australia (as the two federal members of the Food Ministers' Meeting), by 5 pm on 29 November 2021, all correspondence with alcohol industry representatives regarding Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ), and details of all meetings sought or held with alcohol industry representatives and ministers or their offices regarding FSANZ, including meeting briefs and minutes, since 13 June 2020.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for Resources and Water, by no later than 9.30 am on 25 November 2021, the Australian Government response to the Environment and Communications References Committee inquiry report on the impact of seismic testing on fisheries and the marine environment.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has nothing to hide here. In fact, it's my pleasure to table the government's response to this inquiry.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Hanson, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the second reading of the COVID-19 Vaccination Status (Prevention of Discrimination) Bill 2021 be restored to the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I ask that the votes of the Australian Greens be recorded as opposing that motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It will be so recorded.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Cabinet: Public Interest Immunity Claims</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to amend general business notice of motion No. 1264.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the motion as amended:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) has rejected public interest immunity claims made on the grounds of cabinet confidentiality with respect to documents or information related to the 'National Cabinet';</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) will not countenance public interest immunity claims made on the grounds that provision of a document or information related to the National Cabinet ordered by the Senate, or sought by a Senate committee or a senator, would reveal cabinet deliberations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) directs the chairs of committees to draw this resolution to the attention of witnesses who seek to raise claims on this unacceptable ground;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) requires those witnesses to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) provide the documents or information, or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) articulate a public interest immunity claim on a ground which may be acceptable to the Senate and to specify the harm to the public interest that could result from the disclosure; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) resolves that a response to a Senate order for the production of documents that relies on this unacceptable ground is not compliance with the order nor does it constitute a satisfactory explanation for why the order has not been complied with, including for the purposes of standing order 164(3).</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks for giving me one minute. The amendment may deal with some of this. The pre-emptive nature of part (e) of this motion inappropriately attempts to bind the Senate in the future. The decisions of the Senate on responses to orders for the production of documents should be made on the terms of the responses provided. It remains the view of the government that national cabinet was established as a committee of cabinet and its documents and deliberations should remain confidential.</para>
<para>On 17 September 2021, the Prime Minister and all the leaders of state and territory governments made it clear that national cabinet has strengthened relationships by facilitating regular confidential discussions in the national interest, founded on the same principles—trust, confidence and collaboration—which underpin state, territory and Commonwealth cabinets. Cabinet confidentiality is a longstanding principle of Westminster system of government and a well-established ground for the claim of public interest immunity with respect to orders by the Senate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the motion be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:46]<br />(The President—Senator Brockman)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>23</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Carr, K. J.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Griff, S.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Patrick, R. L.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>17</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will give senators a moment to resume their seats, but I would ask senators to remain in the chamber. There will be further divisions. Senator Patrick?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Noting the success of the motion that has just been passed, I seek leave of the chamber to give notice of a motion that I will put tomorrow for an order for the production of documents relating to documents that have not been provided to the Senate on the basis of a national cabinet claim.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is not granted. We will now move to 1270 in the name of Senator Gallagher. Senator Urquhart.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I move motion 1270 I wish to inform the chamber that Senator Hanson-Young will sponsor the motion along with Senator Gallagher. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate directs the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee to suspend the inquiry into the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) and the Special Broadcasting Service complaints handling until the independent review of the ABC's complaints system has been completed, in line with the request made to the Senate on the 14 November 2021 by the independent Chair of the ABC, Ms Ita Buttrose AC OBE.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>One minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No publicly funded entity is above the scrutiny of the Senate and there should be no special set of arrangements for one entity over any of the others. The Australian government recognises the importance of the ABC. Its broadcasting services contribute to a sense of national identity, inform and entertain audiences, and reflect the cultural diversity of the Australian community. The independence of the ABC is enshrined in legislation. Parliament has guaranteed this independence so that the ABC's decisions are free of political interference. However, as a publicly funded entity the ABC is not above the scrutiny of how it conducts itself using taxpayers' money.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:54]<br />(The President—Senator Brockman)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>23</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Carr, K. J.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R.</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Griff, S.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Patrick, R. L.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Sheldon, A. V.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Urquhart, A. E. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>22</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M.</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C. A.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>Hume, J.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McGrath, J. (Teller)</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>McMahon, S. J.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Payne, M. A.</name>
                <name>Seselja, Z. M.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Stoker, A. J.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I give notice that, on the next sitting day, I shall move that, noting the Senate resolution of today relating to national cabinet and public interest immunity, there be laid on the table by relevant ministers no later than 9 am 30 November 2021 the documents required by any Senate order, committee resolution or question on notice to which a claim of public interest immunity was made on unacceptable grounds that material related to the national cabinet is subject to cabinet confidentiality. I will give some examples of those documents.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF URGENCY</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF URGENCY</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Policy</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that 17 proposals were received in accordance with standing order 75. The question of which proposal would be submitted to the Senate was determined by lot. As a result, I inform the Senate that the letter from Senator Urquhart proposing a mater of urgency is chosen.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I give notice that today I propose to move that, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for Mr Morrison to deliver real action on climate change by delivering a climate change policy and legislating net zero by 2050, instead of releasing nothing but another glossy document, and undermining confidence in low emissions technology like electric vehicles by incorrectly stating that "it's not going to tow your trailer. It's not going to tow your boat. It's not going to get you out to your favourite camping spot with your family" and that electric vehicles will "end the weekend".'</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Urquhart, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That, in the opinion of the Senate, the following is a matter of urgency:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for Mr Morrison to deliver real action on climate change by delivering a climate change policy and legislating net zero by 2050, instead of releasing nothing but another glossy document, and undermining confidence in low emissions technology like electric vehicles by incorrectly stating that "it's not going to tow your trailer. It's not going to tow your boat. It's not going to get you out to your favourite camping spot with your family" and that electric vehicles will "end the weekend".'</para></quote>
<para>I rise to contribute on the matter of urgency moved by Senator Urquhart. We are in a global race, a race to net zero, a race to secure the global job opportunities of renewable and low-emissions technology and bring them right here to Australia. We are in a race that, under the Morrison government, we are going to lose. We are going to lose this global race because we have a Prime Minister who always does too little, too late, a Prime Minister who just does not know how to lead and who doesn't have a vision for our country ot only does this Prime Minister fail to see a bright future for Australia as a renewable superpower; he can't even see the opportunities which have always been right in front of him.</para>
<para>We all know that, during the 2019 election campaign, Prime Minister Morrison—famously—said that 'electric vehicles will end the weekend'. No matter how many times he tries to deny it now, that is simply what he said. Now he says electric vehicles are the key building block in the government's net zero plan. There have been two years of missed opportunity to put Australia at the front of the queue to develop an electric vehicle industry. What can we expect from the government that famously turned its back on the Australian car manufacturing industry—a move which was responsible for the loss of thousands of skilled jobs in this country? Imagine what could have been achieved for this industry and these workers if the government had had a plan and if they had acted on the opportunities before them. The story for those thousands of skilled workers and small businesses which supported the industry would have been so very different.</para>
<para>What can we expect from a government that is driven by politics and not by principles? What can we expect from a government which is only now seeing the advantages of green technologies, while other countries have been investing in them for decades? What a shambles is this government's climate policy. This government has seen no leadership from its Prime Minister. As the world moves rapidly towards renewable energy, Australia has the opportunity to take the lead. We have the opportunity to become a renewable energy superpower, to generate thousands of new jobs as part of a global green technology revolution, to export our renewable energy to the world and to rewire our nation to take advantage of our sun and wind. What we have, right here in Australia, right now, is the opportunity to rebuild Australian manufacturing. We have the opportunity to do that, with cheaper renewable energy to make more of what we need right here in Australia.</para>
<para>The world's climate emergency is Australia's jobs opportunity, and Australia needs a government that is up to the task, a government that gives the energy sector the policy certainty that it needs in order to invest, and a government that has a plan to create thousands of well-paid jobs while making power cheaper for our homes and businesses. Instead, we have a government that is absolutely divided on this issue. It is unable to move forward from outdated and completely inadequate mid-term targets and unable to legislate its net zero by 2050 target because it's afraid it won't have the numbers on its own benches to get the job done. We have a government with climate policies which have seen us fall to last place on global climate action. Without a real plan, it is Australian workers who will pay the price. If we do not act fast enough, Australian industries will face international carbon tariffs and, again, it is Australian workers who will pay the price and Australian workers who will face losing their jobs. If we don't act fast enough to seize the opportunities in front of us, workers will miss out. Australia has the most to lose if we act too slowly to respond to the global green economy, but we also have the most to gain, if only this government could act right now.</para>
<para>Australia is best placed to have a thriving battery manufacturing sector. We can mine the lithium that we need right here in Australia and we can use that lithium to manufacture batteries for our own electric vehicles. We can build more of what we need right here in this country, but only if we have a government that has a plan to act and harness those opportunities. We can do all of that, while creating good, secure jobs for workers right here in Australia—jobs on union sites with decent pay that will last into the future. We can do more than dig things up in this country. We can use these natural advantages that we have, our resources, and we can add value right here. That's instead of shipping them off and then just buying them back. But we need the ambition to do it and we need a government with that ambition. We need a government with the leadership to get the job done. We are falling behind because the Morrison government lacks the ambition and lacks the leadership that we need.</para>
<para>We are losing the global race to bring these jobs here to Australia. Australians want a government that has a plan. They want a government that will act right now. What I'm hearing from people in my home state, Victoria, is that right now is the time to bring these jobs here—right now is the time that this global race is on. Overwhelmingly, the people I've spoken to want this government to support new jobs in renewables. They know that this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to rebuild manufacturing and to deliver good, secure jobs. They don't want Australian workers to miss out.</para>
<para>But this government has put forward a plan that is just not a plan. It is just a glossy document that is full of promises and no delivery—not unlike this government's Prime Minister. This is a glossy document that promises to get to net zero but has no plan and no policy to get us all the way there. This is a plan, a glossy document, that promises that 100,000 jobs will be created but, again, offers no policies and no plans to get that job done. I asked the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources about the government's net-zero plan during the Economics Committee hearings earlier this month. I asked about the 100,000 jobs that this government claims in its glossy document will be created. I asked when these jobs would come online and when we could expect to see them. The response from the department was: 'Well, from the perspective of the 100,000 figure, that is a longer-term projection.'</para>
<para>So when will we see these jobs? In five years? In 10 years? What is the government's plan? When will this government tell us how they're going to seize the global opportunities that are there right now to bring these jobs to Australia? The answer of course is that we don't know, because the government doesn't know. They have no plan and they have no vision, and this government have had eight long years to figure it out. Time is running out, because we have a leader who just doesn't know how to lead. We have a leader who is not prepared to get Australia into the global race. He's just not prepared to run the race himself. But what he is prepared to do is to let the opportunities of the future simply pass him by and pass the rest of us by as well. This Prime Minister is just not up for the job. The Morrison government has had long enough to come up with a plan, and Australia can't afford to wait any longer. The next generation can't afford to wait any longer, the planet can't afford to wait any longer and workers who need a plan for good secure jobs from this government can't afford to wait any longer either.</para>
<para>Australians don't want a government that thinks electric vehicles will end the weekend. They don't want a government that doesn't know how wind turbines work. They don't want a government that they can't trust to deliver good, secure jobs for local communities. They want a government with vision. They want a government that brings our country together to win this global race—a government that grasps the opportunities of the future with both hands, delivering the benefits to all Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this urgency motion that will no doubt be filled with breathless despair. No wonder children are worried about the future; by the time you finish listening to the Greens and the opposition, you wonder why you'd even get out of bed tomorrow.</para>
<para>Well, I am not filled with that same kind of despair because I know that the future in Australia and around the world is optimistic. I know that because of how Australia has performed over the last 10 years. It is in regional Australia where we grow the food, where we grow the fibre, where we mine the minerals. By the way, it's where all the renewable wind and solar projects are and where you will have us make the batteries and produce hydrogen—all of the stuff that you don't want to see in the cities. That's where the action is: in rural and regional Australia. We are doing a pretty fine job without outrageous legislation, restrictions and government driving an agenda that will drive Australians into the ground.</para>
<para>We have the benefit in this country of having an Australian plan—a particular plan that suits our climate conditions, our growing conditions. Our unique part of the world deserves a unique plan and that is what the coalition has committed to, not the UN's plan, not Greta Thunberg's plan. It is a plan developed in consultation with the very people who generate the wealth, the food, the fibre, the minerals and the renewable energies of this nation. It is realistic and it is based on Australia's miniscule contribution to world emissions, whilst the largest emitters continue to go forth.</para>
<para>Australia's emissions reductions up to 2030 will be 28 per cent; that is including our export data. The EU, the great proponent of all things emissions reduction, has reduced less, by 21 per cent. New Zealand has reduced by four per cent and they exclude all of their agricultural industry. The UK—they've done well—is down 34 per cent. The US—less than Australia—is down 13 per cent. At the same time China has increased by 72 per cent, India by 86 per cent and South Korea by 33 per cent. Australia is doing more than its fair share in this space—28 per cent emissions reductions. We're doing it our way. We're doing it with encouragement, with collaboration. We're letting market forces drive this space, letting farmers introduce new technology, letting manufacturing introduce new technology. And guess what? It is making them more money. They are more profitable, they are more productive and they are doing their bit for emissions reductions. Yet you won't hear that from the opposition. What you are going to hear about are taxes, fines, penalties, big sticks, because, according to the opposition and the Greens, you couldn't possibly rely on Australians to do the right thing without forced compliance.</para>
<para>We have committed to a plan that allows Australia to keep digging, to keep mining, to keep farming, to keep the lights on, because as of this point fossil fuels still supply 85 per cent of our baseline energy needs. It is being done in a cleaner, more controlled way every day because of technology.</para>
<para>We have agreed to no caps on methane, yet there is science that is going to deliver not just methane reduction through feedlots and animal production but will also increase the productivity of those herds and increase the amount of meat that we can grow. What is more important than growing food? It's something that people in the cities can't do. Even the most successful backyard vegie garden is not going to feed a family. We rely on our farmers to continue doing the job that they do growing food and fibre, not just for Australians but for a good part of our neighbours and the world around us.</para>
<para>Industry lead the way and they do it because it's good for their business. They can maintain export markets. It's good for their profitability and it's good for the people who work for them, who have job security.</para>
<para>I want to touch on some of the implementation of renewable energy in Queensland. The introduction of renewable energy rebates increased the cost of electricity by $1 billion across the state. That is every mum and dad and household paying for the change of new technology. Now, that is fine; that is part of the nation's objectives. But remember that in North Queensland, where I'm from, the cost of electricity for us is three times as high—to mine vanadium, to mine copper, to mine lithium and to mine those products that are so necessary in the world economy. We pay three times the amount for insurance, and banks and finance institutions are increasing the rate of finance in that part of the world because of climate risk. Yet we are the part of the country that is going to solve the problem through the mining we do, through the food and fibre we grow and through the work we are doing to reduce emissions—because I don't see it happening in the cities; I don't see the changes in emission reductions in the cities. That's what regional and rural Australia is asking for.</para>
<para>I've touched on what some of the farmers are doing. I want to talk about MLA's commitment to carbon neutral by 2030. Meatworks was always going to be the most challenging area. I spoke to a meatworker the other day who will go from being a 64-tonne emitter to sequestering 16-tonnes of carbon by next year. DIT Technologies is introducing technology to use water-soluble feed inputs. Four Seasons is doing the same. JCU has developed Asparagopsis, which is a methane-reducing but productivity-increasing feed for feedlots.</para>
<para>I hope I've been able to give you a couple of examples of what Australian business is doing that doesn't require the big stick of legislation that the opposition and the Greens love to drive onto people. As part of our plan we have no caps on methane. We're including soil carbon accounting. This is really exciting stuff for Australian producers. We've also included a five-year review under the Productivity Commission to check in as to what the impact is on our people, because this is about people. This is about Australians who are doing the work in regional Australia—growing the food and fibre, doing the mining, transporting things around, having the renewable energy stations, making batteries and doing the other things that there is an expectation that they will do. It is these regions that are doing the heavy lifting, but they are going to feel the biggest impact as well, with the cost of electricity, the cost of insurance and the cost of freight and travel. So it's very important that we keep looking back and seeing how they're doing.</para>
<para>It is important that we stop talking about the broad issue of climate change and start talking about measurables. The Great Barrier Reef, in my home state of Queensland: we talk about reducing nitrogen and phosphorous, and now we have a market based system for trading reductions in nitrogen and phosphorous run-off—a direct relationship between an emitter, or a company that wants to buy those reduced emissions or pollutants, and the farmer who's doing that work. How terrific. David Littleproud, the minister for agriculture, yesterday announced a biodiversity trading platform—again, a measurable way to understand what is actually happening in paddocks in regional and rural Australia and then to benefit the people who are having to make the changes. I think that's incredibly positive.</para>
<para>So I would say to you that we do not need taxes. We do not need big sticks and fines and penalties. What we need is encouragement. We need industry to drive this agenda, because that will be good for Australia. It will be good for Australian businesses, it will be good for Australian jobs and, most importantly, it will be good for our people. We on this side care about people. We care about them still having a job. We care about them being able to afford to have a lifestyle. Whilst the Greens and Labor are worried about whether electric vehicles mean you would have a good weekend or not, we're ensuring that people can still afford to have a weekend.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With only three minutes, I really don't have time to do justice to the topic of this urgency motion on climate change, so I'll restrict my comments to electric vehicles. It's been almost three years since the Prime Minister promised us an electric vehicle strategy. Instead, we've got a future fuels strategy, which states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The government will continue to partner with industry to invest in enabling battery charging and hydrogen refuelling infrastructure for road transport to give Australian consumers and business confidence to purchase low emission vehicles that work for them.</para></quote>
<para>That's all we've got.</para>
<para>It fails to recognise that the way to give consumers and business confidence is to publish a policy which has objectives and which has time lines. We need to consider things like infrastructure—a national EV charging network, for example. We did see one of those go into the infrastructure plan in February 2019, where it's languished ever since, waiting to identify a proponent let alone implement it.</para>
<para>Some progress has been made on EV charging, but not because of some careful planning. Are fuel cell vehicles part of the solution? If that's the case, we need to be talking about hydrogen refuelling stations. We need standards, we need codes, we need regulations for fuel and emissions, and for buildings—having electric charging points in apartment buildings. None of that's there. In terms of vehicle type and investment, there's a substantial difference between purchasing and depreciating a car compared to a train, and businesses must factor that in.</para>
<para>Businesses need clear guidance. They've said that the current government strategy proposes changes. That's a polite way of saying it's rubbish. The lack of national regulations leaves consumers and industry subject to a 'patchwork of disparate regulations'. It's like the rail gauge fiasco of narrow-, standard- and broad-gauge railways. Nissan Australia's managing director was quite clear. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the most important role governments can play is to provide clear direction to the market on what the short, mid- and long-term objectives should be. This provides direction to industry across auto, energy and infrastructure sectors, provides certainty for investment and most importantly provides clear direction to consumers.</para></quote>
<para>Industry and businesses are seeking stability. The Australian people are seeking clarity, yet we don't have that. Leaders are those that define the future, and we have an absence of leadership in relation to this government and electric vehicles.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on this emergency motion. Australia has an obvious, massive problem. We have a prime minister who will say absolutely anything to promote his own interests. He is shameless. He will leak private text messages of foreign leaders. He will disagree with what he, himself, has said. Just yesterday he misled the House during question time about his holiday in Hawaii. That holiday was taken during the Black Summer bushfires. He was forced to walk that back almost immediately. He will, point blank, deny saying things that he has said on national television. A case in point is his absurd statement that electric vehicles will 'end the weekend', a statement he now denies even making. How can any Australian trust what comes out of this bloke's mouth?</para>
<para>We have a government that is also absolutely squandering the job opportunities presented by the climate crisis. After eight years of infighting, after two Liberal prime ministers were rolled over climate policy, all this government has to show for it is a glossy brochure that Mr Morrison created so he could show it off at Glasgow. Why? Because the government is too busy virtue signalling. Mr Morrison and members of this government are spending their time on stunts, like bringing a lump of coal into parliament or smearing coaldust on their faces and putting on a hard hat for a photo-op. It's all virtue signalling, pure and simple.</para>
<para>Coal does have an ongoing role in the Australian economy for the foreseeable future. It has an important export and import role for jobs. But if Mr Morrison cared even the slightest about jobs in the coal industry, at some point in the last eight years he would have stopped the labour hire rort that is destroying that industry. Here are the facts of the coal industry. In the 1990s, 94 per cent of people working in Queensland coalmines were employees of the mine operator. Today, more than half work for labour hire or other external contractors. BHP is the largest coal producer in Australia. BHP told the job security inquiry that across its coalmines nationwide more than 70 per cent of people work for labour hire or external contractors; just 29 per cent of people working at BHP coalmines are actual BHP employees. Even the Minerals Council of Australia admits that labour hire casuals earn 24 per cent less than direct employees doing the exact same job.</para>
<para>The job security committee's inquiry heard from a coalminer in Central Queensland named Wayne Goulevitch. He is one of the fortunate few who still has a direct job with the miner, but he said he hasn't had a new permanent employee join his team for seven years. That's seven years of the company only hiring labour hire casuals; they're not hiring those same people as direct employees. This is disgraceful! Arthur Rorris, the secretary of the South Coast Labour Council, told us about the impact on miners in the Illawarra. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">You've got a series of body hire firms now that essentially trade on being able to constantly undercut wage rates. We have workers who are sacked one day and rehired at the next, doing exactly the same job, with less money and worse conditions.</para></quote>
<para>Has Mr Morrison done anything to stop this? No, of course not. Instead, Mr Morrison spent half a million taxpayer dollars defending the labour hire rort in the High Court. Instead, Mr Morrison passed a bill earlier this year which stripped rights away from casual labour hire mine workers. The fact is that while Mr Morrison could bring a lump of coal into the parliament for a media stunt he approves of billionaire mine owners using labour hire to slash workers' wages.</para>
<para>Unlike Mr Morrison, Labor is fiercely opposed to this practice. That is why Anthony Albanese introduced the 'same job, same pay' bill in the House yesterday. Mr Morrison is opposed to that bill because he isn't on the side of mineworkers. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on another matter of urgency. Urgency! The most urgent agenda for the Labor Party—the most urgent matter that Senator Urquhart and the Labor Party can dig up—while we're just starting to recover from the global pandemic, while the economy needs astute management, while our borders are just starting to reopen and while the global security situation is perilous, is comments made by the Prime Minister in 2019. What a farce! Really, it's embarrassing. They seem obsessed. Maybe that's why they're taking out ads on TikTok to attack him. This is apparently the alternative government—wow! They really are taking the opportunity to deal with the big issues here today.</para>
<para>For the record, of course neither the government nor I will be supporting this motion. On the issue of climate and emissions, we have already delivered. We have delivered through technology and not taxes. We have delivered greater cuts to our emissions than we committed to under the 2030 target. We met and beat our 2020 target and we are forecast to reduce our emissions by up to 35 per cent on 2005 levels by 2030. And we're doing this with the most consistently transparent reporting regime in the world. This is in comparison to China, whose 2030 emissions reduction target is that they will only double their emissions based on 2005 levels. But with the urgency motion which we're discussing here today, let's get to it.</para>
<para>We will not be legislating a 2050 target. We will not lock in a blank cheque with no way to achieve it. What would the Labor Party do in 2048 if they had legislated a 2050 net-zero target and it looked like it wasn't going to make it? Which industry would they shut down? How many new taxes would they raise to buy offsets? I'll leave that to the Labor Party to explain. We on this side are not legislating emissions targets, but we will consistently meet them. We always do. We beat our 2020 target and we're on track to beat our 2030 target. The only time an emissions target was legislated in Australia was under Prime Minister Gillard, who said that there would never be a carbon tax under any government she led. She did exactly that. She led her government to a carbon tax.</para>
<para>I think what really annoys those opposite the most is that we've set out a very credible plan to achieve net zero emissions by 2050 while, importantly, preserving existing industries. We want to get down the cost of clean energy and low-emissions technologies. We want to get those costs down, not drive up the cost of meat, coal, gas, oil, steel, aluminium and other energy- and emissions-intensive goods. We will take advantage of new economic opportunities, ensure our regions continue to prosper, and establish Australia as a leader in new low-emissions technologies like hydrogen.</para>
<para>I will touch on hydrogen for a moment because I believe it has a very big future for Australia. Blue and green hydrogen will both have a role to play. There are actually a myriad of colours—there is brown and pink—but the colour doesn't really matter. If we can get proof of concept then we've the basis for a global energy industry. I'm proud to say that in my home state of Western Australia the government and industry are already working together at pace to prove this concept.</para>
<para>With the aid of a $42.5 million grant from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, Yara Pilbara and ENGIE will build a renewable hydrogen plant to produce renewable ammonia. It is scheduled for completion in 2023. The facility will be one of the world's first industrial-scale renewable hydrogen production operations. The project will build upon the Pilbara's renewable energy potential. We know that it's one of the sunniest and windiest places on the planet. This project is going to make a big difference up there for industry and, indeed, for that region. The existing Yara Pilbara ammonia plant will deliver green ammonia to customers for decarbonising emissions from power generation, shipping, fertiliser production and mining explosives. I've toured Yara's current facility, and I look forward to touring their new facility when it's up and running as well.</para>
<para>The new facility will comprise a 10-megawatt electrolyser, an on-site facility of photovoltaic panels and a battery storage system that will allow the plant to operate without being connected to the main electrical grid. The first phase of the project will produce up to 625 tonnes of renewable hydrogen and 3,700 tonnes of renewable ammonia per year. This initial phase will be key to enable the facility to become a keystone in the Pilbara hydrogen hub and will build upon the existing export infrastructure there.</para>
<para>It's projects like these that will get us to net zero, not Labor's burdensome regulations and taxes. Our policies and investments are enabling households and businesses to deploy new technologies. Why? Because it actually makes economic sense. The plan is based on our existing policies and focuses on driving down technology costs and accelerating their development at scale across the economy. Our existing policies work and so will our plan.</para>
<para>Our existing policies also do not spell the end to traditional industries like coal and natural gas. Indeed, they recognise their importance. It's such a shame that the member for Hunter, Mr Joel Fitzgibbon, is leaving the Labor benches, because he was basically the only one on their side who was an industrial realist. Just yesterday we saw an announcement by Woodside and BHP that they will move ahead with their Scarborough gas project, which is also located in the Pilbara in Western Australia—fantastic. This region is genuinely the engine room of the Australian economy. If you haven't been there, you need to go there and look at the scale of what is going on in that region. It certainly is the engine room. This project will see $16.5 billion in investment and create upwards of 3,200 jobs. It is exactly these types of projects and these jobs that will be under threat from a Labor government seeking to legislate a net zero position.</para>
<para>Finally I'll touch on the comments referenced in the urgency motion. Now, I'm a fan of electric cars. As soon as they're more affordable, I reckon I'll be buying one. They're very good, and I think there's an exciting prospect for them. But the fact is that there's not a single electric car on the market that can tow a caravan. There isn't. Show it to me—it doesn't exist. Now, it's pretty true that there are some emerging vehicles. There's the Rivian—I challenge you to have a look at it. It looks like an exciting vehicle. But the reality is that lithium-battery powered vehicles have a limited range. The vehicle is only so big, and you can only put so many batteries in a vehicle.</para>
<para>A Rivian is a dual-cab ute. It can tow a large caravan. It can, but the reality is its range without a load is about 480 kilometres. Madam Acting Deputy President, anyone that has a caravan or a boat will tell you that, as soon as you put that load on the vehicle, it halves the range. Even in a diesel vehicle—if the diesel vehicle has a 500-kilometre range, you put a boat on it or a caravan on it and it significantly reduces it, by more than half. Anyone with a caravan or boat will tell you that. The same is true for an EV. This vehicle has the capability to tow it, but it will only be able to tow it about 240 kilometres. And, with the battery in that—which is a 135 kilowatt-hour battery—that will take about six hours to charge up. Fair enough. If you're towing a caravan behind you, I suppose you could always pull over and have a bit of a kip for six hours, every two and a bit hours—you could go and do that. But, let's face it: it's not practical.</para>
<para>Hydrogen provides a future, but that's many years off. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles may be the way to go in the future. As soon as these vehicles become cheaper and more affordable and accessible, I've got no doubt that Australians will actively choose to buy an EV. It suits small-scale commuter vehicles, it suits driving around town—daily-driver sorts of vehicles. That's fine. I think Australians will make that choice for themselves.</para>
<para>But this motion is emblematic of the modern Labor Party. They clutch at green straws while dodging the real issues of the day, seeking to legislate and regulate their world view on Australians. They're going to force these vehicles off the road. We want Australians to have choice—that's what it's about. It's a long way off before you're going to be able to hitch up your caravan and your boat behind an EV, let's face it. If you can show me a vehicle that can do it, I might even go and buy one myself!</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With its latest glossy document, the Morrison-Joyce government claim to have a plan to address climate change and achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2050. But the reality is that this lightweight pamphlet does little to explore the real-world impacts of this target. Like always, the coalition have refused to take responsibility and have instead passed the buck. Fortunately, the Centre of Policy Studies at Victoria University recently published a working paper titled <inline font-style="italic">Zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050: what it means for the Australian economy, industr</inline><inline font-style="italic">ies</inline><inline font-style="italic"> and regions</inline>. After reading through the marketing materials that the coalition have called a 'plan', it's great to see some research that actually explores the real-world effects of achieving net zero by 2050.</para>
<para>The working paper dives deeply into several areas. But today I want to particularly focus on what net zero means for Australia's timber industry. This is an industry that is very close to my heart. For a long time, a job in the timber industry has meant decent pay, good conditions and reliable work—the sort of job you can depend on as you build a life, buy a house and raise a family. It's heartening to see that the research predicts that by pursuing net zero by 2050 our forestry industry will be almost twice the size that it would be if we do not take action on climate change. Sustainable forestry is essential to achieving net zero, as demonstrated by this important research. However, the Morrison-Joyce government's summary barely mentions forestry or wood processing. By treating net zero as a political problem rather than an economic opportunity, the coalition are overlooking the impacts their decisions will have on industries and on workers. Under the Liberals and Nationals, Australia's plantation estate has shrunk by 500 million trees, down 10 per cent since 2014. This must change if we are going to achieve net zero by 2050.</para>
<para>The research also demonstrates the foolishness of those who seek to damage our forestry industry in the name of climate change. The paper shows that the forestry industry, as our greenest form of carbon capture, will need to grow to meet our targets. Those who seek to damage or disrupt the activities of our timber workers are not only hurting the livelihoods of working families and regional communities; they are also making it harder for us to hit our climate goals. Tree plantations in Victoria store 8.4 million tonnes of carbon dioxide every year. It is wrong to attack this industry, when its work is essential to limiting climate change. We cannot afford to be distracted by some radicals who are more concerned with making themselves feel good than with protecting our planet.</para>
<para>I back our timber workers, and so does the research by Victoria University. The real climate heroes are providing sustainable, green building materials to our construction industry. They are taking and storing carbon from our forests and regrowing the harvested trees to store even more carbon. They are working in an industry that provides good jobs and the foundation of local economies right around Australia, including in regional Australia. It's an industry that needs to be supported to expand if we are going to meet our targets.</para>
<para>The Morrison-Joyce government needs to understand that leadership isn't just waving a brochure around at a press conference; leadership is assessing the impact of your decisions on the Australian economy, so we can help those who will need a leg-up and create jobs right here in Australia. Activists need to understand that attacking the timber industry is not going to prevent climate change. You are targeting an industry that needs to get bigger, not smaller, to protect our planet. We cannot be tricked into believing that we need to choose between jobs and the environment. The research from the Centre of Policy Studies confirms that this is a false choice. I look forward to continuing to support timber workers and their communities, because federal Labor is on their side.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's terrific to have an opportunity to make some remarks about this matter of urgency in relation to climate change and climate risk. My view has been that we can all win from getting to net zero. I'm not so big on the slogans and whatnot, but I do think that we are on the right track with this policy.</para>
<para>It's important to point out here that this is about getting to net zero; it's not about getting to zero. So there will still be emissions—from agriculture and transport, in particular—but, in the long run, it's possible that you could get beyond net zero. You could become an exporter of carbon abatement services. People who have visited far-flung parts of New South Wales, in particular, would be aware that there is a lot of land which could be put to good use in terms of offsetting carbon. A lot of the people who live in these areas are low-income people, and that could be a whole new revenue stream for them.</para>
<para>The reality is that Australia has never had enough capital to fund itself. We've relied upon foreign investment for the past 250 years, and that will always be the case. Even under the superannuation system, we are still very heavily reliant upon foreign capital. The people who are against foreign investment are often city slickers, and they often fail to recognise that a large part of the major foreign investment that is required to deliver this transition will go into the regions. If you want to have offshore wind, pumped hydro and these new forms of energy generation—which, in many cases, involve heavy industry and high-paying jobs—you need a lot of money. So sending the right signals to the capital markets was always going to be an essential part of getting to net zero.</para>
<para>I'm very cognisant of the point that people make that if you close down coal you can't replace those jobs with the handful of people who work on a solar farm. That's a valid argument. If you want to have a plan for heavy industry jobs, it is going to be on things like offshore wind. I do think we should look at nuclear as well. I've never understood why we would take any form of technology off the table. There is way too much ideology in this area.</para>
<para>As a person who has tried to focus their public contributions on economic policy, I would say that this is a major economic policy opportunity for the country, but it's also a huge risk if we get it wrong. Global capital markets, for better or worse, have made up their minds on a lot of these key questions, and we need to make sure that this is a sensible transition. We don't know how successful hydrogen will be, but we do need to put as much time and energy into this as we can.</para>
<para>The other point I want to make is that I don't believe in overly bureaucratic measures. I don't think that putting all this into legislation is the right answer. I don't think we should be outsourcing these judgements to bureaucrats, just as I don't think we should be outsourcing our judgements to the Reserve Bank. We are in a situation where there is too much independence that is centred outside of the elected parliament. Ultimately, parliaments and governments are responsible for these judgements and should stand up and seek election or seek re-election on that basis. So, I don't support legislating things and creating new bureaucracies in this space. What we have put out is a reasonable plan, and it is a plan that will most heavily benefit the regions, which is where the main pain points will be.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] Contradictions erupt and abound in climate and energy policies, because no politician has ever provided the logical scientific points as evidence.</para>
<para>John Howard's government introduced the Renewable Energy Target and stole farmers' property rights to use their property. Yet, six years after being booted from office, he confessed in London in 2013 that on climate science he was agnostic. He had no science to support what has become the gutting of our electricity sector and our productive capacity.</para>
<para>In 2016, father of the Senate Ian Macdonald said there has never been a debate on climate science, and he's correct. Two months ago 10 federal politicians confirmed in writing to me that they have never been provided with the scientific evidence. I'll name those people; they showed integrity and courage. In August last year, 19 federal politicians advocating climate alarm and climate policies failed to provide me with the scientific evidence. I'll name them too.</para>
<para>In 2007 and 2008, Kevin Rudd claimed that 4,000 scientists supported the claim that carbon dioxide from human activity affects climate and needs to be cut. The UN climate body's own data shows that only five endorsed the claim, and there's doubt they were even scientists. Mathias Cormann, instead of providing evidence as requested many times, says, 'We must meet global obligations'—to the same organisations that Prime Minister Morrison rightly describes as 'unelected international bureaucrats'.</para>
<para>My own freedom of information requests and Parliamentary Library searches show that no evidence has ever been given to members of parliament—Senate and House of Representatives—that would require these policies. Yet both the Labor-Greens coalition and the Liberal-Nationals coalition have climate and energy policies that are not based on empirical scientific evidence. Come clean with the people of Australia. Unshackle our nation! Give the people a go. Restore freedom.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My home state of South Australia should not have to endure this government's failure on climate policy any longer, because their failure is costing my state. It's costing our environment, it's costing us in terms of the River Murray, it's costing us in terms of investment, it's costing us in terms of jobs and it's costing our children a prosperous future. The government's failure on leadership on climate change is a failure of the highest order. Instead of readying our country to take advantage of the economic opportunities of a renewable energy revolution, they have done what they do best: stoke fear, inflame division and mislead the Australian people on what is to come. We have seen this time and time again from the Liberals, like when the Prime Minister said that low emissions technology, like electric vehicles, will 'end the weekend'. We've seen it in the Prime Minister's embarrassing performance in Glasgow. Their failures on climate change policy have robbed Australians and they have especially robbed those Australians who have the most to lose from a changing climate.</para>
<para>South Australians will not be taken for fools. They see it. They get it. While people have, rightly, been focused on the pandemic for the past two years, beyond that, the one issue raised with me more than any other is the need for urgent action on climate change. South Australians want action on climate change because they know the environmental and economic future of our state depends on national leadership, on national action. But instead under this government they've had 21 different energy policies under three prime ministers, and another glossy document just recently—a pamphlet with no detail. It's an embarrassment on the world stage, where Australia should be leading and where we are capable of leading. Rather than increasing our ambition on tackling climate change, rather than being leaders, every time we get here the government are dragged kicking and screaming.</para>
<para>This is of the utmost importance to my state. People in my state have seen the impacts of climate change firsthand—the Black Summer fires. We know bushfires are predicted to increase in intensity and frequency. We know that if more action isn't taken to enhance and promote renewable energy we will see power prices go up. My constituents in South Australia want to know why the federal government are not seizing the opportunities to produce more cheap, reliable renewable energy; why they aren't taking advantage of this revolution. By investing more in our renewable energy sector we create jobs, we drive down power prices and we deliver South Australians a better future. South Australians, I can tell you, inherently understand what the coalition simply cannot grasp: meaningful action on climate change is critical for our environmental future, but also for our economic future, for the future of our children—for their future prosperity. Their inaction makes me angry, and I know it makes South Australians angry, because the government just can't grasp how important it is.</para>
<para>There are huge opportunities for my state of South Australia if Australia is to lead and deliver the jobs and the growth which we know a green energy revolution can deliver. We see this leadership from the state opposition in my state, from Peter Malinauskas and his team, with their plans to build a 200 megawatt clean-energy hydrogen power plant and storage facility. We've seen it from parts of the private sector who have driven investment in this space—not helped by the policy settings of the federal government, but more and more seeing the light, seeing the economic opportunity, taking that leadership where the federal government will not. State governments are stepping up to lead on climate policy where the federal government will not—where the federal Liberals have just divided, ignited fear, sought to disrupt and destroy any meaningful effort to tackle climate change.</para>
<para>My state risks being left behind unless the federal government get their act together. Our country risks being left behind unless they get their act together. South Australians know how urgent this is. They want the federal government to recognise that too.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand in this place as a proud Gunai-Gunditjamara-Djab Wurrung woman. Our people thrived on this continent for tens of thousands of years, and we are the oldest continuing living culture on the planet. Everything on country—the water, the air, the sky, the animals our totems—carries the memories of our ancestors and the stories and law of our elders. We have cared for everything from the roots of the grasses to the leaves of the highest trees and every living being that relies on them for thousands of years just for them to be destroyed in 250 years of colonisation. Bang! Wiped out.</para>
<para>The dispossession, desecration and destruction of country, the pollution of our waters, the theft of our homelands—these stories are not unique to our people in this continent. At COP26 we heard from First Nations people from around the world who told the same stories of dispossession, desecration and destruction. Climate change is simply a failure of First Nations' participation and empowerment. It is your failure, because we didn't fail this country. The reason why our ecosystems are collapsing is that you failed to hear us, you failed to care about the things that mattered and you failed our ancestors and their stories.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the matter of urgency before us. Just today we have received news that Sergio, a 22-year-old climate activist in New South Wales, has been sentenced to 12 months in prison for participating in a non-violent direct action targeting the coal industry. Twelve months in prison—what an outrageously severe and disproportionate punishment! What an appalling message this sends to climate activists and those of us who are fighting for a healthy planet. The real criminals are the fossil fuel companies who are killing our planet, not those who are trying to save it. The Morrison government are the real criminals who refuse to tackle the climate crisis, not those who want a future for all of us. The real criminals are running amok, spruiking dirty coal and gas. They are the ones condemning us to catastrophic climate change. Australia's insatiable appetite for coal and gas is bringing our Pacific neighbours even closer to the climate precipice, yet Scott Morrison refuses to act. I can't say I'm surprised. This Prime Minister is someone who brought a lump of coal into parliament. This is a prime minister who was dragged kicking and screaming to Glasgow, where Australia actively sabotaged climate action. I am angry that we have a prime minister who is happy waving around a glossy pamphlet with a pathetic policy which is more of a plan to fuel the climate crisis than one to tackle it. And I am furious that we still have a government ideologically rooted in colonial power hell bent on destroying nature and greedy for accumulating resources and wealth by hook or by crook.</para>
<para>We know the Liberals are pathetic on climate justice, but if Labor really cares about climate change, it should join the Greens and offer a bolder alternative vision. It should commit to a 75 per cent reduction in emissions by 2030. It should join us in stopping the dodgy climate-destroying project in the Beetaloo basin and prioritise the concerns of First Nations communities, because we will not have climate justice without First Nations justice. Anything less is mere theatre.</para>
<para>Change will come, and it will come from the people. They know we must quit coal and gas. They know the Beetaloo basin and Scarborough gas projects are ticking climate bombs. They know the Morrison government must be kicked out. And they know that the Greens in shared power will push Labor further and faster.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the urgency motion be agreed to.</para>
<para> </para>
<para> </para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [18:04]<br />(The President—Senator Brockman)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>22</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Ayres, T.</name>
                <name>Brown, C. L.</name>
                <name>Carr, K. J.</name>
                <name>Ciccone, R. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Cox, D.</name>
                <name>Farrell, D. E.</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M.</name>
                <name>Griff, S.</name>
                <name>Grogan, K.</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, S. C.</name>
                <name>Keneally, K. K.</name>
                <name>Lambie, J.</name>
                <name>Lines, S.</name>
                <name>McAllister, J. R.</name>
                <name>McKim, N. J.</name>
                <name>O'Neill, D. M.</name>
                <name>Patrick, R. L.</name>
                <name>Rice, J. E.</name>
                <name>Smith, M. F.</name>
                <name>Thorpe, L. A.</name>
                <name>Walsh, J. C.</name>
                <name>Waters, L. J.</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>20</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E.</name>
                <name>Askew, W.</name>
                <name>Bragg, A. J.</name>
                <name>Brockman, W. E.</name>
                <name>Canavan, M. J.</name>
                <name>Cash, M. C.</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R. M.</name>
                <name>Davey, P. M. (Teller)</name>
                <name>Duniam, J. R.</name>
                <name>Fawcett, D. J.</name>
                <name>Henderson, S. M.</name>
                <name>McDonald, S. E.</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B.</name>
                <name>McLachlan, A. L.</name>
                <name>McMahon, S. J.</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, M. A.</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L. K.</name>
                <name>Ruston, A.</name>
                <name>Smith, D. A.</name>
                <name>Stoker, A. J.</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names />
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, National Disability Insurance Scheme Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Additional Information</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the chairs of various committees I present additional information received by the committees as listed at item 14 on today's order of business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the fifth interim report of the Community Affairs References Committee on <inline font-style="italic">Centrelink's compliance program</inline>, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate adopt the recommendation contained in the report, proposing an order for the production of documents.</para></quote>
<para>Yes, this is the fifth interim report on Centrelink's compliance program—in particular, the impact of the federal government's automated debt collection processes upon current and past income support recipients, the program otherwise known as robodebt. We are not giving up seeking justice for people impacted by this devastating program.</para>
<para>I do want to start my speech in tabling this report tonight by acknowledging the important work of my predecessor as chair and Australian Greens community affairs spokesperson, Senator Rachel Siewert. There is a lot of Rachel's blood sweat and tears in this report! Rachel's passion for people was reflected in her tireless work to bring their voices into this place. It's because of that work, and that of others—the rest of the committee—that the Senate Community Affairs References Committee has refused to simply accept the government's delays and denials of the impact of robodebt, even as the Public Service has been forbidden from uttering the term 'robodebt' in Senate estimates.</para>
<para>At the forefront of the committee's mind has been the individuals and their families who have been affected. The committee remains committed to holding the government to account and resolving unanswered questions on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of Australians who have been affected by this scheme. Our report puts it very clearly, saying that more than 18 months after the government's announcement that debts under the scheme would be refunded, as of 28 October this year 9,200 individuals continue to wait for a refund. Moreover, eligible applicants of the class action will need to wait another 10 months before receiving their share of the settlement sum. It also noted that the settlement does not provide compensation for the psychological and financial hardship incurred by affected individuals.</para>
<para>More broadly, questions remain concerning what the Australian government knew about the legality of the debt recovery system. Despite persistent questions from the committee, the government has refused to provide key documents central to this inquiry. The quote from Justice Murphy in the report summarises the situation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The proceeding has exposed a shameful chapter in the administration of the Commonwealth social security system and a massive failure of public administration. It should have been obvious to the senior public servants charged with overseeing the Robodebt system and to the responsible Minister at different points that many social security recipients do not earn a stable or constant income, and any employment they obtain may be casual, part-time, session, or intermittent and may not continue throughout the year … It should have been plain that in such circumstances the automated Robodebt system may indicate an overpayment of social security benefits when that was not in fact the case.</para></quote>
<para>It is not good enough that we are still having to pursue the government over this. Too many people have suffered to simply accept the pathetic answers the Australian government has given to date. It was a step forward in June to have the Federal Court's decision to recognise that the Liberal government unlawfully raised $1.7 billion in debts against 443,000 people, but people shouldn't have to fight their own government for justice. We deserve a government that's on the side of people, not billionaires and big corporations. As my predecessor, Senator Siewert, said, 'Robodebt cost lives; it has ruined many, many more and has been the cause of immeasurable pain and anguish.' We still don't know what the government knew and when, and they are still desperate to cover it up. The government think they can get away with only refunding victims served notices after 2015.</para>
<para>The interim report that I am tabling this evening contains two recommendations regarding the settlement that was reached this year—firstly, that Services Australia distribute the settlement sum in accordance with the Implementation Plan for the Settlement Distribution Scheme as a matter of priority and, secondly, that following the finalisation of the implementation plan Services Australia publicly release the following data: the number of class action group members in each category; the total value of debts of the group members, broken down by category; and the average share of the settlement sum that eligible group members received.</para>
<para>Of course, the release of data brings me to the other fundamental issue that this report covers, and that is the issue of the government ducking and weaving and hiding information that the community, particularly those affected by robodebt, deserve to have. In our report, we say that the committee views that the government's knowledge regarding the legal basis of robodebt is a crucial element of this inquiry and the repeated refusal by the relevant ministers to provide information has limited the committee's ability to appropriately assess the operation of the income compliance program. In not releasing its legal advice about robodebt, either publicly or in camera, the government is trying to hide its cruelty to innocent people, and it's hoping that, if it refuses to share this information for long enough, we'll all forget and they won't be held to account. But we will not forget and we will not give up attempting to uncover what really went on. This program has cost the Australian government hundreds of millions of dollars and has had a devastating impact upon hundreds of thousands of individuals. The Australian public deserves answers as to how this could occur.</para>
<para>The committee reiterates its strong rejection of the public interest immunity claims made throughout this inquiry in relation to the executive minute and its legal advice and costs regarding the income compliance program. As part of this interim report, the committee recommends that the Senate adopt the following resolutions: 'that the we note that the Senate Community Affairs References Committee has rejected the Minister for Government Services' explanation regarding public interest immunity claims on several occasions' and 'that there be laid on the table by the Minister for Government Services, by no later than 1 pm tomorrow, revised responses relating to legal advice and the income compliance program, which have been subject to rejected claims of public interest immunity during our inquiry into the program'. We also want to see laid on the table a copy of the executive minute to the Minister for Social Services, as referenced in the Commonwealth Ombudsman's April 2017 report.</para>
<para>If we can't get those documents tomorrow, we need a letter confirming that the above responses relating to legal advice and the executive minute will be provided in camera to the Senate Community Affairs References Committee by no later than two o'clock tomorrow. If the minister again fails to table these documents, this motion will require the minister to attend the Senate at the conclusion of question time to provide an explanation of the minister's failure to table the documents. The hiding of information that this government has been doing during this robodebt debacle is deplorable. Australians deserve better than a government and a minister and a prime minister who think that they can just spin their way past accountability and who refuse to be honest with the Australian people. That's why the Greens have been calling for a royal commission into the robodebt affair—to get to the bottom of this. Australians deserve answers, and we deserve accountability to make sure that this does not happen again.</para>
<para>Fundamentally, though, the best way to make sure that such outrages don't happen again in the coming years is to get rid of the Morrison government. Australians are sick and tired of the lack of accountability. They're sick and tired of the smirks and grins from this Prime Minister because it's always somebody else's fault. It's not his fault. It's always hidden away; it's never out in the open. He doesn't hold a hose. If you're sick and tired of Scott Morrison, we're going to have to vote for change. If you're sick and tired of a government that, basically, is on the side of the billionaires and the big corporations rather than ordinary people, we are going to have to vote for change. If we want an end to this lack of accountability and an end to corruption and if we want a federal ICAC with teeth to get to the bottom of corruption that's going to take genuine action on corruption, we're going to have to vote for change. Fundamentally, as has been shown by this debacle over robodebt—this appalling ruination of people's lives—if you want a government that cares about people rather than attacking them, we're going to have to get rid of the Morrison government and vote for change.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Neill, I assume you wish to speak on the same point?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Deputy President. It is on the same matter. I also indicate that I know that there are other senators in the chamber and that there are a number of reports and that this is a time-limited debate for 60 minutes, as I understand it, so I know that people will want to make a contribution.</para>
<para>I'm going to make a short contribution on robodebt because I think Senator Rice has articulated very clearly the findings that are embedded in this interim report. I also want to acknowledge that we all miss Senator Siewert and her passionate energy for this. I note that this is another interim report that makes some really serious recommendations. I say again in this place, for the fifth time, this government inflicted illegal debts on its own people. Over a million people have been impacted. The government was found to have illegally raised debts and sent them out and demanded money from Australian people. They sent debt collectors to the doors of people who have never, ever in their lives had a problem with the government or the law. They reached into the homes of what they call the 'quiet Australians'; I call them the decent Australians—the ones who get up every day and do their work and look after their families and abide by the law and make a contribution to this great country. No-one was safe from Mr Morrison. As the Treasurer, he cooked this up, and he cooked it up with or without legal advice, and, either way, that is a diabolical problem for this country. It cannot be allowed to stand.</para>
<para>We are calling for the legal advice that gave the government comfort that it could go ahead and construct a system called robodebt that was, later on, found by the legal system to be illegal. It is not a little thing when the government acts illegally and attacks its own people, so we need to get to the bottom of it. We need to find out how such a thing could have happened and we need to prevent it from ever happening again. I gave my word to two women whose sons were so overwhelmed by being hounded for this debt by their own government that they simply lost the will to survive. And they are no longer with us. This is a sad reality for Australians, and if this speech triggers any concerns for you I encourage you to contact the public health support lines, like Beyond Blue and the Black Dog Institute, because those two young men didn't and they are not with us. But their mothers are fighting for recognition of what this government did to two young Australian men, and a whole lot more people. And I will not let this go.</para>
<para>People say: 'Robodebt—you know, that's a couple of years ago; you should get over it.' Well, I'm not going to get over it, because when you become the government there is a huge responsibility that sits on your shoulders, and that is to act in line with the Constitution and it is to act in line with the law of the land, and it is to act in a way that doesn't drive the people of the nation that you're supposed to be serving to suicide action—to despair and to brokenness and to mental ill-health—from being attacked by their own government. So I will not let this rest. I will not let this pass. And there are colleagues here with me who will continue to hold this government to account.</para>
<para>They can use all of the technical language that they want to diminish this, but this is a gross failure of government. It is a shame on our history. It is a blight on the parliamentary history of this country. It is no small thing. It cannot be swept under the carpet. So let's keep picking up that carpet and looking at the ugliness of what this government has advanced in its attack on the people of this country.</para>
<para>There are some very clear directions about what the government has to do. Show up. Provide the information. Let the Senate see what went on. Let us make sure that this never happens again. If you can't show up and put it here in public, there's an option for you to give it in camera. If you can't do that, there's more action.</para>
<para>But this is not going away. It is not going away. And I honour all those families and individuals who were brave enough to participate in the inquiries that we've undertaken, on their behalf, to get to the bottom of this.</para>
<para>Robodebt was the infliction of illegal debts by this government on the Australian people. It cannot be allowed to go misunderstood. We need to know how we got to that point. The government has a responsibility to the Senate, on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of Australians who were terribly impacted, to enable us get to the bottom of that problem. So I call on the minister: Do your job. Don't come in here with weasel words. Come in here with the documents. It's time. Cough it up. Tell the truth. I know it's not the usual pattern for this government, but it's time. The people affected by robodebt deserved so much better than they got from this government, and they are—through us, here in the Senate—calling on us to provide them with some understanding of how a government could get it so wrong and to give them the protections that they need going forward so that it can never happen again. So I endorse the report and I seek the support of the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll just touch on the nature of the motion that's in the report, and that is to get access to legal information, legal advice. Over and over again, the government walks into this chamber and says that it's legally privileged and it would cause harm to the public if the legal advice was released. But the fact of the matter is: the Senate has never accepted legal professional privilege as a public interest immunity. This goes back through history, here in Australia, even to the New South Wales parliament, where Mr Egan, the Treasurer of New South Wales, was actually discharged—taken from the chamber. He was taken from the chamber because he failed to deliver documents under an order for production of documents. The matter then went to the High Court, in a case called Egan v Willis, where the High Court affirmed the power of the Senate to order the production of documents.</para>
<para>There was one matter that was left untouched by the High Court, and that was whether or not that power applied to legal privilege. That was then dealt with in a matter called Egan v Chadwick in the New South Wales Court of Appeal, the highest court in New South Wales. Three justices in that court ruled unanimously that the upper house has the ability to call on legal advice to be tabled and is entitled to do so when conducting a review of the government's processes or, indeed, of the government's actions in respect of either legislation or its executive function. So let's make it really clear that, in actual fact, the claim being advanced by the government in this instance is erroneous. Even if you argued there was harm, that doesn't prevent the information being tabled in camera. There is no legal basis for the government to deny access or to not table this legal advice.</para>
<para>I would encourage further thought in relation to this matter. I will be supporting the motion, and there may be the situation where the minister is called to the chamber. And, if the explanation is unsatisfactory, I suggest that maybe we go down the pathway of the New South Wales parliament and eject the responsible minister from the chamber. That's what we should do, because we've got a problem here. We have a problem here in that people outside of the Senate, and journalists, all think that it's a bit of a joke, the Senate, in terms of its orders for production of documents, in terms of the answering of questions on notice and so forth—that the whole thing is a bit of a joke. And we might think to blame the government for that, or maybe even public officials. But, I'm sorry, it's not their fault. It's the fault of the Senate. That's whose fault it is. It is the fault of the Senate and the senators in it who don't recognise their responsibility to enforce orders of the Senate and to use all necessary means to enforce those orders and allow us to do our job.</para>
<para>I encourage senators to go and have a read of Erskine May. Erskine May is, of course, the United Kingdom's equivalent of Odgers. It's available online, and you can even go back to the version just prior to Federation, which applies to this chamber. You can read through it. It's really interesting. You can see how the House of Commons established its privileges. You can see how the House of Commons set in place all of the things that needed to be done. There are stories in there of the Serjeant-at-Arms of the House of Commons going out to arrest someone, as ordered by the Speaker, and the serjeant-at-arms being called before two judges, and the judges putting the serjeant-at-arms in jail. Do you know what happened, Madam Deputy President? The House of Commons put the judges in jail. That's where we established that parliament was supreme. Of course, there is respect for the boundaries. There's also another case in there where an MP was arrested by some sheriffs. And the serjeant-at-arms, under orders from the Speaker, then arrested the sheriffs so that the member wasn't prevented from discharging their parliamentary functions. Over 1,000 contempt matters have been dealt with over the history of the House of Commons. They went through a whole range of processes—blood, sweat and tears—to establish the powers that are exercised by this Senate. Those are the powers that we inherited through section 49 of our Constitution. And so we are giving great disrespect to those members of the British House of Commons who, over centuries, established these powers. When we look around and we say, 'Gee, we don't like the government not fronting up with the document,' the press gallery is watching us and reporting on the fact that actually the Senate doesn't have the powers or doesn't seem to have the powers. It does have the powers. It's just the fault of senators who don't respect the way in which those powers were given to us.</para>
<para>I accept that you can abuse power and that that's grossly irresponsible. If you use a power in an improper way, that is grossly irresponsible. But it's also irresponsible not to use a power for proper purpose, and we should recognise that. We need to think about this. It's not like we can go to someone who sits above us and say, 'Hey, government's not playing it fair.' It's not like that at all. We have to look at ourselves to enforce the powers that were given to us earned through blood, sweat and tears, through arrests. The privileges in freedom of speech, Article 9 of the Bill of Rights, flow from kings arresting MPs and putting them in the tower and so forth. These are powers that were earned over a long period of time and are there for us to use and to use properly, and it is wrong if we don't use them properly. So I just urge that, if we get to the point where the minister refuses to provide the documents, let's look to the New South Wales parliament, let's look to Erskine May. As senators, it doesn't matter what side you are on, because it's quite important that the powers are properly exercised and not let slip. That's my suggestion. That's my contribution. Let's see what happens in this motion. If it gets up, let's see what the response is. Let's take it to the final place and exercise our powers fully; otherwise, we will just be looked upon as a joke.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rice, are you also seeking leave to continue your remarks?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australia's Family Law System Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Chair of Australia's Family Law System Joint Select Committee, I present the committee's third interim report and final report, together with the accompanying documents. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I have risen today as I have many times—in fact, nearly 90 times since I was elected into this place—but I think one of the most memorable and possibly the most impactful of those was when I rose here in this Senate on behalf of the government in September 2019 to move to create the Australia's Family Law System Joint Select Committee here in the Senate. I'd been a senator for just over two months when I did that. It's been other two years since I moved that motion to establish this select committee. Now, two years on, we have finally finished the work of that committee. I make these points simply to highlight the importance of this inquiry as a senator. Over the course of this inquiry, the committee held 13 public hearings, 13 in camera hearings and received over 1,700 submissions. The committee has heard from many people who have direct experience of the family law system, advocacy groups and organisations. We heard from academics, legal professionals and, on behalf of the community, I thank everyone who made contributions ontributions were extremely heartfelt, personal and, in many cases, very difficult for them to make. I acknowledge, sincerely, the impact of each of those contributions and I thank those who made the brave decision to speak and to give a submission. Many were given in camera, because of the nature of them, but each and every one of them was important.</para>
<para>The report presented today follows on from the committee's first interim report, presented in October 2020, and second interim report on improvements in the family law proceedings presented in March 2021. The first interim report, previously tabled, canvassed the broad range of issues that arose in evidence provided to the committee, touching on matters like perceptions of bias within the system, the role of family consultants and expert witnesses, whether the adversarial nature of the family law courts could be improved—that's a big issue we continue to hear about—the misuse of systems and processes, professional misconduct and perceived or apparent systemic issues. We also heard about the cost of legal fees encountered in the legal and family law system, delays encountered in the Family Court and issues in family violence and the family law system.</para>
<para>The second interim report detailed the committee's conclusions and recommendations in relation to the family law system. This included proposed and contemporary reforms as well as suggesting extra measures that the committee considered were needed to better support Australian families using the family law system. The 29 recommendations contained within the report place emphasis on reducing cost and delays experienced by those interacting with the court as well as exploring how the enforceability of orders could be improved. Also explored were options to refine the family violence framework, amending the Family Law Act, alternative dispute resolution and several other issues.</para>
<para>I'm pleased to inform the Senate that the Australian government has already moved ahead on a number of these recommendations. For example, the government has allocated an additional $100 million in funding, over the next four years, to strengthen the Federal Circuit and Family Court. The committee heard from the court about how that will be implemented. It was certainly received with gratitude and they're already seeing the impact of that, which is good. In the second interim report, it was noted that there had not been enough time to consider issues related to child support. This issue was raised many times in the submission process and led to an agreement of the committee—and, ultimately, the Senate—to extend the deadline of the final report, which I'm proud to table today.</para>
<para>The third interim report, which I'm also tabling today, deals in majority with the systemic problems relating to children in the family law and child support systems and offers 19 new recommendations. One of these is that the government convene a ministerial task force and expert working group, with a broad range of representatives, to examine the child support formula. Unfortunately, the committee was not equipped to review this issue in the appropriate and required detail that would be necessary for a subject as important as this. A number of submissions were received. It does need further assessment, and that's why this recommendation is within the report.</para>
<para>The committee strongly believes that ongoing community engagement is a vital feature of government decision-making and policy development. The committee has recommended that regular meetings of the Child Support National Stakeholder Engagement Group should, therefore, be reconvened. The final report notes government actions and Family Court initiatives since March 2021 and makes further recommendations, supplementary to those made in the second and third interim reports. The committee reiterates its considered opinion that recommendations relating to the proportionality of cost and the use of arbitration are significant reforms that should be adopted.</para>
<para>Private meetings between the committee and the Chief Justice of the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia, and the Chief Judge of the Family Court of Western Australia, were held in order to discuss the proceedings and decisions of the respective courts and the committee. These meetings provided a solid foundation for further inquiries and informed the deliberations and recommendations contained within the report.</para>
<para>I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Chief Justice Alstergren and Deputy Chief Justice McClelland for their assistance to the committee during this inquiry. The committee and I thank all those who stepped up and gave evidence before the committee. It was not an easy thing to do, and Senator Waters will be able to attest to that. We had quite significant moments in that committee, where people were quite moved by the evidence they were giving, and I really do thank them for that. It was a brave thing for many of them to do. Many of them are living in the middle of it, dealing with it, while for some of them it was reliving some of the worst times of their lives. The courage required touched me and no doubt every member of the committee. I thank those that stepped up, very much indeed.</para>
<para>Also deserving thanks are the committee secretariat, who do a whole body of work behind the scenes. The workload and the difficult nature of the subject matter for this committee was immense. I acknowledge and thank them very much indeed. We also met with many legal professionals, community groups and academics, and I thank them also. Throughout the inquiry the committee sought to understand the ongoing deficiencies and issues present in the Australian family law and child support systems. The committee sought to find solutions that are practical, workable and equitable and that will make an ongoing improvement to the lives of the many men, women, children and extended family that use this system.</para>
<para>Finally, I acknowledge all members of the committee, including the member for Menzies, Mr Andrews, as chair; the deputy chair, Senator Hanson; and all the other colleagues involved in that committee. We approached it in a very collegiate way. We worked exceptionally well together. Senator Rice, who is in the chamber now, was part of that, and I thank her for the commitment, which we all had, to making sure that we were able to canvas the many and difficult issues that relate to the family law system. On that, I table these reports. They conclude the work of the committee. I commend both the final reports and the interim ones that have been put in. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Greens opposed this inquiry from the outset not because we think there are no problems with the family law system but because those problems have been the subject of numerous comprehensive inquiries. Understanding the problem is not the issue—doing something about it is. This politically motivated inquiry sought to relitigate old issues and delay implementations of previous recommendations. It emboldened domestic violence offenders and retraumatised victims-survivors and their children. Experts and service providers opposed the inquiry. The government should have prioritised evidence based strategies to make family law safer for victims and survivors of family violence, rather than allowing this compromised inquiry to proceed.</para>
<para>The weight of evidence given to the committee over many months—years, in fact—confirms what was already known: that gendered violence is a core problem at the heart of the family law system; that inadequate resourcing has created delays and gaps in the system that continue to put women and children at risk; and that funding, specialisation and wraparound service models are the solution. We are relieved that, having heard all of the evidence, the committee's primary recommendations are not those championed by the men's rights movement. Instead, they largely acknowledge, once again, the need for a better understanding of gendered violence to be embedded throughout the family law system. The inquiry has identified, once again, the need for evidence based strategies and additional funding to make family law safer for survivors of family violence, and it has reaffirmed the role of the federal government in facilitating that.</para>
<para>While the inquiry was unnecessary and damaging, I thank everyone who—once again—made a submission, sharing their story and their expertise, who appeared at the public and private hearings or who briefed the committee. I thank, in particular, the secretariat staff for their tireless efforts to collate the evidence presented.</para>
<para>We have supported recommendations calling for more training for judicial officers and report writers, implementation of the successful Lighthouse Project and the priority property pool conciliation pilots, and increased staffing. We note the progress that's been made on harmonising definitions, procedures and information-sharing to reduce the number of times survivors have to re-live the same trauma. We note that progress and welcome it. But more needs to be done.</para>
<para>Importantly, the whole basis on which this inquiry was set up is the idea that women routinely weaponise the family law system against their ex-partners and concoct or exaggerate domestic and family violence. It is a horrifying and dangerous myth that cannot stand. This dangerous myth was clearly contradicted by the vast bulk of expert evidence to the inquiry, noting that women are more likely to underreport violence because they fear they will not be believed and they fear that disclosures of violence will disadvantage their case and jeopardise the safety of their children. The only way to strengthen the outcomes of family law matters is to ensure that they are heard by an experienced, specialist judge who has an understanding of the dynamics of family violence.</para>
<para>The final report notes that the merger of the Family Court with the Federal Circuit Court took effect on 1 September 2021. The Australian Greens, along with the vast majority of those working with and within the family law system and in the legal profession and former Family Court judges, opposed the merger. The merger risks the specialist expertise that is essential to ensuring a child safety focus in family law matters. We continue to oppose the merger and we believe that the strongest protection for children, families and survivors of family and domestic violence is a strong, standalone, specialist Family Court involving a holistic, specialist system of collaborative, culturally safe, co-located services and resources.</para>
<para>At least 60 per cent of Family Court matters involve domestic and family violence. The merger has delivered loss of specialisation in a court that relies on specialist expertise to navigate complex matters and ensure the safety of children. We support case management measures and the harmonisation of rules and practice directions, but we note that those measures were possible—and indeed already underway—without the merger. The backlog of cases is overwhelming and does a disservice to families seeking to move on safely with their lives.</para>
<para>Skilled, experienced registrars, liaison officers and non-judicial staff play a critical role in implementing risk screening and triaging programs. We support more registrars to help parties navigate the system, to prepare for interim hearings and to maximise the prospects of successful mediations. However, so many family law matters are complex and disputed. These cases simply cannot be resolved in a way that ensures the safety of children without a judicial hearing. This government must fund more family law judges to maintain the specialist expertise needed to resolve complex matters and improve the pace of justice. Justice delayed is justice denied.</para>
<para>On funding, review after review has confirmed that the entire family law framework is overstretched and underresourced. Funding in the 2021-22 budget for court programs and legal services is welcome, but it will not go far enough to reduce the significant delays and improve access to justice in the family law system. The government must ensure that legal aid, community legal centres, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander legal services and family violence prevention legal services, and their peak bodies, have adequate and secure funding to provide timely advice and representation to parties. Failing to strengthen the legal advice and assistance sector will simply exacerbate delays and costs that directly impact on the accessibility and quality of justice.</para>
<para>Finally, reform and review of the family law system will be critical to the success of the next national plan in protecting women and their children. It is essential that the national plan provides for culturally safe wraparound and responsive support services so that women and their children have access to immediate support when leaving abusive relationships and longer-term support to navigate the legal system. The plan must be funded to at least $12 billion over the life of the plan—that's $1 billion each year—for prevention programs and for legal, social and support services for families and survivors of family and domestic violence.</para>
<para>As highlighted at the recent Women's Safety Summit, it's also critical to have a standalone plan for First Nations women and children. We welcome the government's apparent commitment to a First Nations women's national plan. However, this plan must be truly self-determined by and prioritise the expertise and solutions of First Nations women and their community controlled services and organisations. We call on the government to hold a First Nations women's gathering to facilitate the development of this plan. And at all stages of developing this plan, First Nations leadership, expertise and solutions must be prioritised.</para>
<para>This was a politicised and fraught inquiry. We are glad it is over and we call on the government to now finally do what needs to be done to provide a family law system that works to minimise trauma and maximise the safety of all parties and their children. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] I rise to speak to the third interim and final report of the Joint Select Committee on Australia's Family Law System. I thank the committee secretariat for its considerable efforts since the establishment of this inquiry, for which I have fought tooth and nail. I was the one who got this inquiry up.</para>
<para>As many parents have attested, and as I myself have experienced, Australia's child support system is outdated, unfair and unjust. It's a broken system that breaks people. We can fix it, and we must fix it. It works to compound the hurt, pain and anxiety felt by parents at the breakdown of a relationship. It's a system which can be effectively weaponised by acrimonious parties seeking to inflict further hurt and financial penalty. It's a system which can effectively allow children to be used as pawns in such conflicts. It's a system which doesn't have to be this way, and, since my election to the Senate, I have worked hard to bring these matters to light and debate.</para>
<para>Ultimately, what we need is a fairer child support system which works to ensure all parents meet and fairly share their responsibilities to their children, works to ensure child support does not impoverish the party paying it or unduly enriches the party receiving it, minimises the cost to taxpayers through efficiency and streamlined processes, and ensures optimum service and speedy resolution to disputes.</para>
<para>I'd like to relate a complaint I received about the child support system which illustrates just how outdated, unfair and unjust it is. This parent equally shares access to and financial support for three children with their ex-partner. However, on receiving a pay rise, this parent was suddenly required to increase child support by $1,500 per year, even though their children's expenses did not change. Upon the ex-partner having a child with someone else, this parent was required to increase child support by another $2,000 per year, paying more to support a child who was not theirs. How is this fair? This is just one of the many examples of the inequity built into Australia's broken child support system.</para>
<para>I've been working towards a fairer child support system since I was elected to the Senate. In my first meeting with Prime Minister Turnbull, I said the family law and child support systems needed to be fixed.</para>
<para>This inquiry was about getting to the root of the problems and finding real solutions. But, despite the evidence presented by so many people who have experienced its unfairness, some of the other members of the committee have turned a deaf ear. They've preferred to listen to the bureaucrats and lobby groups who inflict this pain on parents, not the parents themselves. Perhaps it's due to the lack of personal experience with the system among committee members; it may be a little confronting for them to consider the input of families destroyed by this system.</para>
<para>I've had a lot of personal experience with this system, and I propose a number of practical solutions to address the problems. For me this comes down to the simple fact that both parents have brought their children into the world, so they alone should share the responsibility of raising and supporting them. The aim for everyone should be equal child access, except where a parent is clearly unfit. While we must always ensure the welfare of children, we in this place are obliged by the Constitution to legislate parental rights. We don't need another stolen generation of children estranged or cut off from their family, including their grandparents. Many grandparents feel that they haven't been heard in this debate.</para>
<para>To this end, I have proposed the following principles. Assessable income should be defined as net salary, or wage after tax. It must be recognised that 80 per cent of working Australians are pay-as-you-go employees, and it's unfair that current child support arrangements discriminate against them in comparison to self-employed people. Services Australia consider $526.50 a week to be a liveable retained income, on the basis that approximately $27,000 a year is the threshold at which child support payments kick in. But, in a briefing, I told them they were leaving parents who are paying child support with as little as $370 per week. They had no idea. If $526 a week is the minimum, paying child support should not leave parents with less in their pay packets.</para>
<para>Salary assessment should be based on a 38-hour week and should not include overtime or additional employment. People need the incentive to move on with their lives. Child support should be based on the number of children at the time of separation, not based on subsequent children with other parents. Residential costs should be assessed individually, as both parents need to have homes to accommodate their children. Family tax benefits A and B should be part of assessable income. At the moment, a single parent with one dependent child receives a fortnightly family tax benefit payment of $320 which is not assessable income. Potential earning capacity or ability should not be a factor in income assessment. Just because someone is capable of earning a larger income does not entitle Services Australia to assess them in this way. WorkCover or TPI payments should not be assessable income and nor should superannuation payouts. Punitive action should result if a payee parent acts in contravention of court orders or mutual agreements regarding visitation rights. Child support payments should incorporate the travel incurred in delivering a child between parents and should be a shared responsibility.</para>
<para>Ultimately, the fairest approach is to determine child support payments according to what is needed to raise the child—food, clothing, housing, education and medical care—shared by both parents. This should be based on the average cost of such support to the average Australian family. The cost of raising a child should be the only factor which dictates the contributions from both parents. We must ensure these contributions are in fact to be spent solely on raising the child. Many parents are sick of paying child support only to see their ex driving a new car or taking luxury holidays. It's recommended that payments are made to a special child support account, and the recipient must be accountable to Services Australia for its expenditure. Where child access is between 35 and 65 per cent, effectively, costs are the same, so there simply should be no child support. This will minimise the practice of acrimonious parents withholding child access to boost their child support payments. It will take the sting out of it, and parents will be able to spend more time with their kids. It will also minimise costs, save a lot of time and encourage parents to get themselves a job and face up to their responsibilities, instead of relying on child support for income. They can move forward with their careers instead of taking lower-paid jobs to minimise their child support payments.</para>
<para>These are practical solutions which should have been adopted by the committee as formal recommendations. They haven't been, which has obliged me to lodge a dissenting report. In an attempt to prevent my dissenting report, the committee has just amended this report to include my proposals as issues raised, with a vague recommendation that these proposals be explored by some task force. It's not enough—not by a long shot. My dissenting report stands as an indictment of the refusal of the government and opposition to make meaningful changes to a broken child support system. I am not appeased. I will not be appeased until there is a real commitment to return fairness to child support. Ultimately, we all want the best for all families involved in these incredibly difficult circumstances—children and parents.</para>
<para>I will not speak to the remainder of the report except to say that I support some recommendations and disagree with others. What is more important is fixing a broken system that is ineffective, costly, slow and inequitable and which is all too easily abused in the name of acrimony and appeasing self-interest groups. It's time for a fairer system, and I'm not stopping until we get it. Too many parents are taking their lives due to our family law and child support systems. All parents and children deserve better. I believe Senator Waters is biased in her comments and is reluctant to acknowledge that domestic violence is committed by women, also. Evidence given was in camera. There was no traumatisation there. Everyone had a chance to put their story across. But, as I said, at the end of the day, we have to address the fact that people are committing suicide. They are taking their own lives. Children are not having time to spend with their parents. Grandparents are being denied the right to see grandchildren. If we can't intervene in the household, why are we doing it and telling them they can't see the children just because they go through the family law system and the courts? Judges need to wake up to the fact that they are denying parents the right to see their children. This is a fight I will continue on behalf of many Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations and Financial Services Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of Senator O'Sullivan, I seek leave to continue his remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Corporations and Financial Services, I present three reports together with accompanying documents and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the reports.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Implementation of the National Redress Scheme Joint Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the second interim report of the Joint Select Committee on the Implementation of the National Redress Scheme, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to incorporate the tabling statement in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The statement read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Mr President</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On behalf of the Joint Select Committee on Implementation of the National Redress Scheme, I rise to table the Second Interim Report.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The First Interim Report was tabled on 1 May 2020, and following its release the Committee has continued its work on various matters relevant to the maturation of the National Redress Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since its establishment in 2018, the National Redress Scheme has made both a symbolic and practical contribution to delivering justice to survivors of institutional child sexual abuse.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Scheme acknowledges the many children who were sexually abused, recognises their suffering, holds institutions to account, and helps survivors secure access to counselling, a direct personal response, and a redress payment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee agrees that the Scheme requires continuing improvements reform to meet the needs and expectations of both survivors and the wider community.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Scheme is not failing as some have claimed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The focus of this Second Interim Report is to identify reforms that will have the greatest, and most timely, potential for improving survivor participation and experience.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Second Interim Report makes 21 recommendations that reflect well understood concerns expressed by all stakeholders including survivors, redress support service partners, advocates, the Department of Social Services, and the Independent Reviewer, Ms Robyn Kruk AO.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Report recommends that the National Redress Scheme, through the Department of Social Services, acts immediately to ensure that all aspects of the Scheme, including community education materials, are culturally informed for First Nations peoples, and accessible to care leavers and people with disability. Reform must extend to ensuring that all survivors are able to make an application and be appropriately supported throughout the application process, including direct personal responses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Critically, the Committee recommends that key operational aspects of the National Redress Scheme be urgently reconsidered to ensure procedural fairness, including:</para></quote>
<list>current eligibility limitations</list>
<list>the secrecy of the assessment framework</list>
<list>the application of indexation</list>
<list>internal application review processes</list>
<list>direct personal responses</list>
<list>funder of last resort limitations, and</list>
<list>the current cap on payments for applications where numerous institutions are found responsible for abuse.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee also heard that there are some unscrupulous legal practitioners targeting survivors. The Committee has recommended that more be done to prevent the exploitation of survivors by some law firms and survivor advocacy businesses through legal reform. This requires collaboration between the Australian Government and all States and Territories.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is pleasing to note that over the last year, Scheme reform has included encouraging institutions to join by removing tax concessions and Federal grants, legislating $10,000 advance payments to elderly and terminally ill applicants, and expansion of the Funder of Last Resort provisions for defunct and financially incapable institutions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee notes that the applications received by the National Redress Scheme have been more complex than originally anticipated. This has had a significant impact upon the operation of the Scheme. Now that this is well understood, the Scheme needs to be reformed to ensure that it sufficiently equipped to serve the people it exists for, the survivors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The work of this Committee has been pivotal in driving improvements to the Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr President, during this inquiry the Committee has had the privilege of speaking with many survivors, advocates, and the staff who work tirelessly to support the National Redress Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On behalf of the Committee, I would like to thank all those who made contributions. The Committee has had regular and meaningful engagement with the Department of Social Services, and we appreciate the manner in which they have made themselves available to inform the work of the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to thank my fellow Committee members for their collegial and the non-partisan approach during the work of the Committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amidst a global pandemic, lockdowns, and the closure of state and territory borders, the Committee has delivered a worthy and timely report to further advance survivor access to the National Redress Scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would also like to acknowledge the work and commitments by a former member of the Committee, Senator Rachel Siewert, who retired from the Senate earlier this year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Her commitment, energy, and passion for helping survivors with their pursuit for justice is well recognised and appreciated by all.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most importantly, the Committee extends its deepest appreciation to the many survivors and survivor groups who have continued to share their stories—these insights have been invaluable.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee cannot express its appreciation strongly enough.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The work of the Committee is always for your benefit, and through our work to improve the National Redress Scheme we hope to honour your honesty and bravery.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Thank you Mr President, I table this interim report.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations and Financial Services Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak today to one of the reports that have just been tabled by the government. All of them are worthy of consideration, and I also want to acknowledge that those reports were produced under the chairmanship of Mr Andrew Wallace, who today has become the Speaker of the House. I want to acknowledge that rise to great high office by him. But today I'm here to talk about a particular bill and recommendations around a bill that are very concerning.</para>
<para>It's about the Corporations Amendment (Improving Outcomes for Litigation Funding Participants) Bill 2021. This report is the project of a cursory and risible single day of hearings and a rushed consultation process. We're left with a government report unmoored completely from the concerns of legal experts, who think that this law addresses a non-existent problem and that the bill may even be unconstitutional. This bill, to be clear, is not about access to justice; this bill is about ideology and delivering for the masters of the Liberal Party: those with bulging wallets and even bigger egos, who are self-interested in their attempt here, under the cover of COVID, to water down continuous disclosure laws and to push the government to rush through regulations on litigation funders that are so poorly designed that ASIC needs tens of thousands of dollars in legal advice to figure out how to actually implement them. This is a disaster in the making on the watch of this government. This is all just so they can ensure that the dodgy corporates are less threatened by the prospect of a class action.</para>
<para>The bill will cull the market for litigation funders. It will make them risk averse to funding class actions and it'll cut the amount of class action funders available, thus making it harder for ordinary Australians to access justice. But that's exactly what this government want. They want to keep everybody in the dark. They want to keep you quiet and make sure you can't get into a courtroom and fight for your fair share when they or a major corporate have done the wrong thing.</para>
<para>Supporters for this reckless bill were so few and far between that the committee received a visit from the mysterious Rule of Law Institute at our sole hearing. Despite no submission, they were called to give evidence at the public inquiry by the Liberal members of the committee, and at the hearing Mr Merritt made it very clear that he had no relevant experience or expertise to give and made several inaccurate and misleading comments that had to be corrected after the hearings. He also refused to disclose who actually funds the mysterious institute, leaving me and many other members of the committee very sceptical about its purported independence.</para>
<para>There was another star witness—a lobbyist, Mr Stuart Clarke—and, if there's sufficient time, I'll come back to discuss him, but, most seriously, this bill may not be constitutional. That's principle No. 1. A government shouldn't be bringing bills forward that are unconstitutional. We've seen what happened with robodebt, with the minister who is now responsible for that department continuing to fail to answer questions and provide legal advice. We know that this government's not good at this stuff. We have had evidence to say this bill may be unconstitutional. The government's not fazed. In Labor's dissenting report we note that former Solicitor-General Justin Gleeson SC and other legal experts make this point:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Multiple and serious concerns were raised by submitters including but not limited to:</para></quote>
<list>whether the corporations power in the Constitution (s 51(xx), and / or the referral powers to the Commonwealth (pursuant to s 51 (xxxvii)) can support the provisions;</list>
<list>whether the provisions would amount to an inconsistency with state class actions provisions so as to override them pursuant to s 109 of the Constitution, including impacts on the group costs order provisions unique to the Supreme Court of Victoria; and</list>
<list>potential issues arising in respect of overriding the power of state courts or</list>
<quote><para class="block">directing state legislatures.</para></quote>
<para>These are very real issues and they remain unaddressed by this government. The majority report of this committee glosses over the evidence presented in the hearing that the bill may not stack up constitutionally. Overall, this yearlong process of reform of the litigation funding industry has been nothing but haphazard, chaotic and botched.</para>
<para>Of concern from many submitters to this inquiry was that Labor senators only had a day—a single day—to look over the majority report before it was reported. The government used its numbers and pushed this through at lightning speed. Other things that they have promised, like an independent commission against corruption—well, more than a thousand days ago they promised it. They have done nothing. But with litigation funding they are pressing ahead even though the bill was described as 'unconstitutional.' That's how shambolic this government is.</para>
<para>This is clearly a box-ticking exercise for the government. They didn't wanted a real inquiry, just the semblance of one, in a PR cover-up to rush their poorly drafted laws through. Witnesses had less than two business days to respond to questions on notice and even then the only witness to fail to have them in on time was the Attorney-General's Department and the Treasury department. They couldn't make the government's time line. They haven't answered questions about constitutionality. Any bill with as many serious issues as this one and profound questions about its constitutionality should continue to be scrutinised and not advanced on the floor of this parliament. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, Treaties Joint Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>-1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present two government responses to committee reports as listed on today's Order of Business. In accordance with the usual practice, I seek leave to incorporate the documents in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The documents read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Senate Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee Report : Courts and Tribunals Legislation Amendment (2021 Measures No. 1) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Inquiry into the Courts and Tribunals Legislation Amendment (2021 Measures No</inline> <inline font-style="italic">. 1</inline> <inline font-style="italic">) Bill 2021</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government thanks the Committee for its consideration of the provisions of the Courts and Tribunals Legislation Amendment Bill (2021 Measure No. 1) Bill 2021.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government provides the following responses to the Committee's recommendations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">The Committee recommends that the Senate pass the Bill.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government agrees with the recommendation and notes that the Bill was passed by the Senate with amendments moved by the Opposition (as noted below) on 2 September 2021.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Minority Report — Labor Senators</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Labor senators recommend that the bill be amended to remove:</para></quote>
<list>the proposed amendments to sections 7(2)(c) and (3)(b) of the<inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal</inline><inline font-style="italic">Act 1975 </inline>(replacing the reference to 'Governor-General' with 'Minister')</list>
<list>proposed new section 60(1B) of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act 1975 </inline>(protections and immunities for Immigration Assessment Authority (IAA) Reviewers), and</list>
<list>proposed new section 28(5) of the <inline font-style="italic">Federal Court of</inline><inline font-style="italic">Australia Act 1976 </inline>(allowing the Federal Court to provide short-form reasons).</list>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following the implementation of Recommendation 1, Labor Senators recommend that the Senate pass the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that the Bill was passed, including three Opposition amendments to reflect Recommendation 1, in the Senate on 2 September 2021.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Dissenting Report - Australian Greens</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 1:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the government reject the proposed amendments to subsections 7(2)(c) and 7(3)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative</inline><inline font-style="italic">Appeals Tribunal</inline><inline font-style="italic">Act 1975 </inline>from the bill to remove the role of the Governor-General in the Administrative Appeals Tribunal (AAT) appointment processes. Instead the government should abolish the IAA and establish a fairer process for persons seeking asylum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that the Senate passed the Bill on 2 September 2021 with the amendments proposed in the Minority Report by the Labor Senators, including the removal of proposed amendments to subsection 7(2)(c) and 7(3)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative</inline><inline font-style="italic">Appeals Tribunal</inline><inline font-style="italic">Act 1975 </inline>from the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Immigration Assessment Authority (IAA) provides automatic review of fast track reviewable decisions. Fast track reviewable decisions are those decisions made by the Minister for Immigration, or delegate, to refuse to grant a protection visa to a fast track applicant. The IAA must conduct a review that is efficient, quick, free of bias and consistent with the procedural requirements set out in Division 3 of Part 7AA of the <inline font-style="italic">Migration</inline><inline font-style="italic">Act 1958.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The review process employed by the IAA is rigorous and includes:</para></quote>
<list>review 'on the papers' - careful consideration is given to the material that was before the Department of Home Affairs (DHA) when it made its decision as well as a written submission from the applicant as to why they disagree with the DHA's decision or identifying any claim or matter that was presented to the DHA that it overlooked</list>
<list>review of new information - where circumstances justify, the IAA may request or accept any new information that was not before the DHA for its consideration, and</list>
<list>interviews - where circumstances justify, an applicant may be invited to attend an interview to give specified new information or to comment on new information that may be adverse to their case.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The IAA's efficiency in reviewing fast track matters is clear. The median time for a matter to be finalised in the IAA in 2020-2021 was between 4-6 weeks as opposed to 99 weeks in the Migration and Refugee Division of the Administrative Appeals Tribunal for the same period. This recognises that fast track applicants are facing challenging personal and financial circumstances that warrant fast and fair decisions. Further, the IAA remits approximately 10% of decisions to the DHA for reconsideration and its decisions remain subject to judicial review. The option to seek judicial review remains open to applicants after the IAA process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government therefore does not agree with the position that the IAA should be abolished and a fairer process be established for persons seeking asylum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Senate reject proposed amendments to section 60 of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act 1975 </inline>from the bill to grant High Court judge privileges and immunities to IAA reviewers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that the Senate passed the Bill on 2 September 2021 with the amendments proposed in the Minority Report by the Labor Senators, including the removal of proposed amendments to section 60 of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act 19</inline>7<inline font-style="italic">5.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the Senate reject proposed amendment to section 28(5) of the <inline font-style="italic">Federal Court of</inline><inline font-style="italic">Australia Act 1976, </inline>which would allow the Federal Court to provide short form judgments. Instead, the Government should properly resource the AAT, and appoint more relevantly qualified and experienced AAT members to address the current backlogs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government notes that the Senate passed the Bill on 2 September 2021 with the amendments proposed in the Minority Report by the Labor Senators, including the removal of proposed amendments to section 28(5) of the <inline font-style="italic">Federal Court of</inline><inline font-style="italic">Australia Act 1976.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government recognises the significant backlogs which exist in the AAT, primarily in the Migration and Refugee Division (MRD). As at 31 May 2021, the AAT had approximately 66,000 existing matters on hand, of which approximately 57,000 were within the MRD.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government acknowledges the work of the AAT in addressing the backlogs in the MRD, finalising over 20,000 matters per year over the last three years. The Government has provided $18.9M in additional funding to the AAT from 2021-22 through 2024-25 to finalise an additional 2,000 matters per year in the MRD.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government acknowledges that additional funding and members will only go so far and recognises that applications without merit are contributing to the backlog, especially in the MRD. The Government is committed to ensuring that the migration review system in Australia is not subject to abuse and that meritorious applicants have appropriate access to justice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government therefore does not agree with the position that the AAT is not properly resourced and notes efforts to appoint more relevantly qualified and experienced AAT members to address the current backlogs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 4:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Greens recommend that the government create an independent body to make AAT appointments to strengthen the independence of the AAT appointment process and ensure that only relevantly experienced and qualified people are appointed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to ensuring the AAT has the resources it needs to provide high quality merits review with minimum delay.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In accordance with the <inline font-style="italic">Protocol</inline><inline font-style="italic">for Appointments to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal 2019, </inline>an Expression of Interest process is run each year for appointments to the AAT. The President of the AAT considers the suitability of applicants who have provided expressions to the register and provides recommendations to the Attorney-General as to what positions need to be filled, suitable candidates and advice about members whose appointment is expiring and whether they should be reappointed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Attorney-General will then recommend potential appointments to Cabinet. When recommending appointments, the Attorney-General certifies (where required) that the appointees are qualified under sections 7(2)(b) and 7(3)(b) of the <inline font-style="italic">Administrative Appeals Tribunal Act 1975 </inline>by virtue of having specialist skills and relevant knowledge. Following Cabinet consideration, the proposed appointments are considered by the Executive Council and ultimately made by the Governor-General.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The existing process is rigorous with a number of checks to ensure its integrity and that the most suitable candidates are appointed to the AAT.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government does not agree with the position that an independent body should be established to make AAT appointments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australian Government response to the Joint Standing Committee on Treaties Report 197: Minamata Convention on Mercury</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government thanks the Committee for its consideration of the Minamata Convention on Mercury and provides the following response to the Committee's recommendations:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee supports the Minamata Convention on Mercury and recommends that binding treaty action be taken.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government welcomes the Committee's agreement that binding treaty action be taken in relation to the Minamata Convention and commits to move swiftly to implement this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Recommendation 3</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Committee recommends the Government reassess the need to seek an exemption to allow for the continued importation of High Pressure Mercury Vapour (HPMV) lamps into Australia, considering such an exemption to be reputationally damaging and of limited practical benefit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Response:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government accepts this recommendation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following publication of JSCOT Report 197, the Australian Government further consulted the streetlighting sector regarding the implications of phasing out HPMV lamps.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Feedback from the sector indicated that while the proposed exemption would assist some providers, there is heightened awareness across the sector of the need to complete the transition to other kinds of streetlights as soon as possible. This is driven both by an understanding of the need to prepare for Australia's impending ratification of the Minamata Convention, and by the rapidly diminishing global supplies of HPMV lamps (due to the effectiveness of the Convention).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Noting industry feedback that phase out of HPMV lamp use in the short term is considered achievable, the Government will not pursue an exemption for the continued importation of HPMV lamps.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government will continue to work with affected stakeholders to ensure they are aware of the timing and implications of ratification and minimise potential impacts to service provision.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a statement—</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a statement relating to the vote on general business notice of motion 1270 relating to the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee's inquiry into the ABC's and SBS's complaints handling.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is leave granted?</para>
<para>An honourable senator: No.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm in the hands of the chamber here. Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry; I've only just got to the chamber. I didn't realise quite the context of all of this. But can I just be clear: is Senator Rennick simply seeking to make a statement at this point?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, you have to explain why.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, no—sorry. The convention is that you first need to seek leave to make a statement.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>May I?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I think that is what he was doing.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, that's not what he just said.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm in the hands of the chamber. Senator Ruston?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>With the indulgence of the chamber, I would just seek for the person who denied leave to perhaps reflect on that decision, on the basis that it is convention—and has been afforded to the Greens and many other parties in this chamber—that, when somebody has made a mistake in their vote and they seek to have that vote recommitted, it's allowed. So I would just ask that maybe we could ask Senator Rennick to seek leave again and for those at the end of the chamber to reconsider their position, on the basis that this has been a convention that has been afforded to them in the past.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So I am in the hands of the chamber. Senator Rennick has sought leave to make a statement. Senator Hanson-Young, you're seeking the call?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Rennick is seeking leave to make a statement, not to have the vote recommitted because he's changed his mind.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He hasn't changed his mind.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ruston</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, he would like to make that statement to do it.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>If I could have order, please. In line with how this chamber does operate, it is customary for a senator in Senator Rennick's position to be given leave to make such a statement in relation to a vote that had happened previously, especially as it may lead to a recommittal that may be sought. So I'm in the hands of the chamber. Just so that everybody is aware—Senator McKim, I'll come to you in a moment—once Senator Rennick has given his explanation, it will then be up to the Senate to decide whether there will be a recommittal. This is in line with the custom of the Senate over many years. Senator McKim, you were seeking the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If I could, on indulgence: if Senator Rennick is seeking leave to make a statement about a particular matter, I think it would be of assistance to the Senate if he could make clear, in just a short number of words, what the matter is, rather than just simply rising and saying he is seeking leave to make a statement, because, at the moment, I understand that's what he has said.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKim. Senator Rennick actually did do that when he rose to speak. I'm reading the mood of the chamber and I'm going to give the call to Senator Rennick.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. He sought leave and Senator Hanson-Young said no.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong has the call.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr Acting Deputy President, I appreciate it. There is a process here, and I suggest we go back to the beginning. I think Senator Rennick should seek leave to make a statement about X; the Senate, including Senator Hanson-Young, who denied leave previously, as is her right, can make a decision about whether the Senate grants leave; Senator Rennick makes the substantive statement at that point; and then the Senate determines whether we accept that.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We'll start again and have a reset. Senator Rennick has the call to seek leave.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a statement relating to the vote on general business notice of motion No. 1270 relating to the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee inquiry into the ABC and SBS complaint handling.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RENNICK</name>
    <name.id>283596</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to have the question put again on general business notice of motion No. 1270 due to a confusion around pairing arrangements this afternoon.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to speak in relation to this matter.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have to take our jobs very seriously in this place. If Senator Rennick has voted in the wrong way, that's one thing. If he missed the vote, that's another. But simply wanting to change the way votes were paired is really showing what a shambles this chamber is right now, and this is on the watch and under the management of the government. They've got renegades in their own team and they have no idea how to control them. I feel for Senator Birmingham. He's no Senator Cormann when it comes to being able to whip and control the team over there. He's a very decent guy. The government has lost control of its own team. That's what's happening here. It has lost control, and now we are seeing total, mass confusion.</para>
<para>The Australian people have every right to know how members in this place vote. I, for one, have been very concerned over the last number of weeks, and increasingly over the last couple of days this week, about pairing arrangements that are not disclosed to the public or to the chamber. It is just not acceptable. This is a democracy. We all have a responsibility to make decisions in this place, and we have to be accountable for them. What this has shown is what a shambles the pairing arrangements and the lack of disclosure is. It suits the government from time to time to keep this stuff secret. Why? Because, as we know, Mr Morrison changes his mind every day. Why would he want a record of how his own members vote? He doesn't. So here we go again. It has been talked about in this chamber, particularly over the last two days, that this is not being managed properly. What we are going to see happen one day is that a piece of legislation that passes in this place under these murky secret deals will be challenged in the High Court because it's not legitimate. We can't actually count properly the number of votes in this place and hold people accountable.</para>
<para>I'm very, very reluctant to agree to something like this, which is a stitch-up because the government can't control their own team. It's not Mr Morrison who votes in this place; it's individual senators, and their names should be recorded. The reason Mr Morrison doesn't want this is that he doesn't want to be held accountable for what his team is doing. He says one thing one day and does another the next and hopes the Australian people forget. We don't forget. We're watching and we're holding to account the people in this place.</para>
<para>Senator Rennick has every right to have a barney with his Prime Minister, every right to have concerns about how his Prime Minister is running the show, but to not take seriously your job in this place and to not stand up and be clear about how you are being paired—are you being paired because you want to or because the whips have done it on your behalf? I'd be pretty annoyed, Senator Rennick, if they're pairing you without telling you how your pairing arrangements have gone. If that's your frustration, you should be able to stand up and put that. I'd be questioning whether you can really trust what's going on on your front bench and with your Prime Minister.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>-1</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>While the ALP and the LNP quibble over the minuscule differences between their climate policies while both pocketing massive donations from corporations that are cooking the planet, it's time tonight to pay tribute to activists all over the country and right around the world. To the people putting their bodies and freedom on the line to stop logging and the mining, processing, transportation and burning of fossil fuels, the Greens applaud your courage and your commitment. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts for what you're doing. We acknowledge the risks and the dangers that you face. We understand that you are taking direct action because of the abject failure of parliaments and supposed leaders here in Australia and around the world to ensure a safe climate, a sustainable future and a liveable planet for our children and our grandchildren.</para>
<para>I want to pay particular tribute to a young person called Sergio who was sentenced yesterday to 12 months imprisonment with a non-parole period of six months—six months is his minimum period in jail—for his part in a direct climate action in the Hunter Valley. He got 12 months imprisonment with a minimum non-parole period of six months for halting a coal supply train for five hours. This sentence is a massive overreach and an absolute disgrace from the magistrate who imposed it.</para>
<para>Sergio should not be facing six or more months in jail. Instead, he should be honoured for his bravery and thanked for his public service, and that's what I do on behalf of the Greens this evening because he had the courage to do what all the fossil fuel flunkies in this place will not do and have not done—and that is to stand up and fight for a safe future and a safe climate not just for himself and an entire generation of Australians but for the tens or hundreds of millions of people around the world, who are overwhelmingly poor and people of colour, who will pay the highest price as our climate breaks down around us.</para>
<para>Instead of real climate action we see state government power locking in behind polluting corporations to defend their interests. We need to be clear: the interests of these corporations means extracting profit at the direct expense of our climate, of nature and of our future. Right around this country Labor and Liberal governments are accepting donations from corporations that profit from pollution. They are taking those donations and delivering on what they have been bought to do. Once they've done that they sit down with their corporate donors and draft laws to curb or even ban people's right to protest in this country—laws to protect the profits of the corporate planet cookers at the expense of the rights of ordinary Australian people to protest to safeguard their future; laws to lock in the ability of fossil fuel and logging companies to destroy nature and cook the planet; and laws to ensure the imprisonment of anyone brave enough to stand in the way of those planet-cooking and nature-destroying companies.</para>
<para>Then we see agents of the state, like Commissioner of the New South Wales Police Force Mick Fuller, rolling out to the media and threatening climate activists with jail sentences of up to 25 years. What a disgrace. I barely recognise this country.</para>
<para>But I've got a warning today for those corporations and their servants in this place: the social compact is fracturing. Governments and parliaments are not delivering on their end of the social contract. They are actively facilitating the planet cooking, the destruction of nature and the mass extinction event that we are living through. Governments are going to find out very quickly they cannot arrest their way out of the climate crisis, and if they keep on trying they'll soon find out that their jails are nowhere near big enough.</para>
<para>Thank you to all the brave activists standing up against the vested interests and the powerful in support of a safe climate and in support of nature.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Plant Based Meat</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ASKEW</name>
    <name.id>281558</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When Hungry Jacks launched its Rebel Whopper in 2019 it was marketed as 100 per cent Whopper, zero per cent beef with a 'smoky BBQ flavour' just like the famous beef Whopper. The Rebel Whopper burger patty is made from soy protein and, for all intents and purposes, the Rebel Whopper has been made to look and taste like the chain's regular Whopper, the only major difference is the protein contained in the burger. The ingredient that makes this plant based burger patty taste like the meat it seeks to emulate is haem, an iron-rich molecule found in all living things. In animals the haem in haemoglobin and myoglobin carries oxygen through the bloodstream and muscles. Haem also gives meat, like beef, its distinctive red colour and metallic, bloody taste. Put simply, haem is what makes meat taste meaty.</para>
<para>Plant based meat alternatives have been made to taste like meat through the inclusion of a haem-rich protein derived from soy plants called leghaemoglobin, which is short for legume haemoglobin. This haem is manufactured using yeast that has been genetically engineered with the gene for soy leghaemoglobin.</para>
<para>The texture of meat has also been replicated in these plant based patty alternatives, because the molecular structures of animal muscle and plant proteins are different. Animal muscle is formed by bundles of interlocking protein fibres, while plants have small, round non-fibrous proteins. Muscle-like threads have been created in plant protein by elongating soy proteins and using heat and pressure to create strands that mimic a muscle-like texture.</para>
<para>Clearly, we have very clever scientists at work here, creating some incredible food products. But this speech is not a biology lesson, or to share scientific innovations. I'm talking tonight about the unnecessary confusion created within the minds of consumers when they face an array of products created to look like meat. That is why I'm talking about a Hungry Jacks burger in the Senate.</para>
<para>I want you to think about what it means when we have businesses creating products to look and taste like meat but are not actually made from meat. Who are these products supposed to appeal to? I don't know of any vegetarians or vegans who actively seek out products that look and taste like meat. In fact, I imagine many would consider them an insult to their choice not to consume meat or animal products.</para>
<para>I've seen plant based meat alternatives at my local supermarket and I'm sure you have too. Did you look twice, like I did, unsure whether the package contained a real meat patty or a chicken strip? When such products look like meat and are positioned in areas adjacent to the section stocked with meat and chicken, is it any wonder that consumer are confused by these options?</para>
<para>Research agency Pollinate, surveyed 1,000 Australians in July on their attitudes to plant based meat. Pollinate found 61 per cent of those that did the survey mistook at least one plant based meat product as containing animal meat and half said they found the packaging for the products tested in the survey to be confusing. When these consumers were asked which elements of the plant based product packaging and marketing they found confusing, they said animal imagery, the small or hard-to-read font for plant based references and the use of meat descriptors.</para>
<para>I don't think it's too much to ask that plant based protein product manufacturers and marketers refrain from using images of cows, chickens or other animals on their packaging. And I don't think they should be allowed to use words like 'beef', 'bacon' or 'chicken' to describe these products because, despite being made to look and taste as such, they're not beef, bacon or chicken. In 2018 the US State of Missouri went so far as to enact a law to stop such marketing trickery from happening. Missouri's law prohibits anyone from misrepresenting a product as meat that is not derived from harvested production livestock or poultry. Plant based food producers have launched lawsuits since, alleging that this labelling law violates first amendment rights to free speech by criminalising the word 'meat' and that it unfairly restricts how manufacturers can sell meat alternatives, but they have been unsuccessful.</para>
<para>As my fellow senators know, the Senate Standing Committee on Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport has been conducting an inquiry into this situation. The committee examined whether meat branding had been impaired by the appropriation of product labelling by manufactured plant-based or synthetic protein brands. I look forward to reading the committee's report because I believe we should know exactly what is included in the food products we buy and what we're consuming when eating out or taking away.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANTIC</name>
    <name.id>269375</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Most Australians take it for granted that denying services for basic rights based on gender, race, sexuality or religious or political views is wrong. This is the very reason that Australia has antidiscrimination laws—laws that protect people from being refused services and employment over these very issues. That is to be expected of a liberal democracy like Australia. Tragically, it's ironic that after several decades of building upon antidiscrimination legislation it's only taken a relatively short time for Australia to be transformed into a two-tiered society on the grounds of medical discrimination.</para>
<para>For the simple act of refusing a COVID vaccine, Australians are being refused entry into businesses, denied basic services, having their movements restricted, losing their jobs and having their careers ruined. First it was nurses, then physios, then dentists and chiropractors. Then last week in South Australia the health bureaucracy mandated teachers. This week, it's cabbies and Uber drivers. Those who refuse COVID vaccines are being marginalised for no reason other than their refusal to comply with the whims of a power-hungry unelected health bureaucracy around the country, and history doesn't look kindly on these actions.</para>
<para>Justifying such medical discrimination in the name of science is incoherent. If the argument is that these vaccines protect you then we have no reason to be worried about unvaccinated people, and vaccine passports are rendered useless by the fact that vaccinated people can still spread the contagion. Why then are unvaccinated people being hunted by our institutions and the bullyboys of the corporate world? Australia cannot become a nation in which people are required to present private medical information to fully participate in society. Such processes are a hallmark of totalitarian regimes like Soviet Russia. They are a tool wielded to pressure people into compliance.</para>
<para>Travelling interstate, ordering a cup of coffee, going to the movies, visiting an elderly parent or being allowed to work should never require an unwanted medical procedure, whether it's safe and effective or not. The right to live and work without being subjected to a medical procedure or the whims of a tinpot bureaucrat must be restored and protected. The borders must be open for all people, regardless of their private medical decisions. We can't pretend that Australia is a free country until these steps are taken.</para>
<para>Our freedoms are nurtured and defended so that they're passed on to the next generation but they're being trampled on, supposedly in the name of health and safety. The assault on basic human rights and dignity has been astounding. Rallies all across the nation last weekend drew hundreds of thousands of Australians—not antivaxxers, not far right extremists and not white supremacists, as the lazy media and the Left have called them. My office has in fact been bombarded with emails and calls from people across the country who have been forced to choose between taking a medical procedure that they don't want and keeping their jobs. It's a great shame that our nation has allowed this to happen.</para>
<para>Recent polling commissioned by my office shows that nearly 28 per cent—nearly a third—of South Australians have felt pressured into taking one of these treatments. That may be upwards of 400,000 South Australians. Those pushing medical discrimination today will be remembered in much the same way that segregationists were remembered in the past. Sir Robert Menzies once said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The rarest form of courage, I think, in the world, is moral courage. The courage that a man has when he is prepared to form his view of the truth and to pursue it, when he's not running around the corner every five minutes to say, 'Is this going to be popular?'</para></quote>
<para>I wonder what Sir Robert would say about us today?</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Gas Industry</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] The Scarborough gas development is shaping up to become part of Australia's most polluting fossil fuel industry—the gas industry. If it goes ahead, this megaproject off the north coast of Western Australia will singularly increase national emissions by some 10 per cent. It will produce four times more emissions over its lifetime than Adani. The mere suggestion of its existence is inconsistent with our Paris targets. It irreversibly threatens First Nations cultural heritage sites, including 45,000-year-old World Heritage-nominated Murujuga rock art. It puts marine life at risk. It puts life at risk—full stop!</para>
<para>At a time when the rest of the world is scrambling to reduce emissions and tackle climate change, what is the Morrison government doing? It is working in cahoots with the fossil fuel industry and other fossil fuel giants in the corporate sector, who signed off on this project yesterday, to launch this disastrous endeavour. The science in relation to this project is irrefutable. The mining and burning of coal, oil and gas is fuelling the climate crisis and yet the government continues to find ways to ignore the facts, even as the water rises around its neck and the flames lick at the empty space where its conscience should be. We know what this project is about—it is about the millions of dollars that the government is accepting from the fossil fuel industry.</para>
<para>In October, the International Energy Agency reported that Scarborough could be a dud investment if the world commits to net zero by 2050. Global markets for LNG exports are growing increasingly uncertain as our trading partners switch to cheaper and cleaner sources of energy. So, regardless of whether you look at it from an environmental or an economic standpoint, Scarborough makes absolutely zero sense. What is so frustrating about this is that reaching net zero is absolutely achievable. The earlier that we begin the transition—and it's an inevitable transition—the smoother it will be. We can harness our abundant renewable resources to generate cheap and reliable energy, drive our economy into the future and create hundreds of thousands of new jobs. We can take care of fossil fuel workers and their families, supporting them through this transition, and we can do it all without Scarborough ever coming into existence.</para>
<para>Our community here in WA made itself crystal clear: there is no desire for the Scarborough gas project. As I speak today, the community has mobilised outside Woodside's HQ here in Perth to oppose the project in the strongest possible terms. We will not accept new fossil fuel projects in this state. The Greens unequivocally oppose the building of this development and support the community in its total opposition to the Scarborough gas project—and, indeed, to all new coal, oil and gas developments. I thank the chamber for its time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Australians we rightly rejoice in being one and free. That sentiment, so succinctly expressed in our national anthem, needs to fertilise the thinking of our nation's authorities as they deal with COVID. Families, workplaces and communities are experiencing tensions between those supportive of vaccination and those who are hesitant or outright opposed. For the record, I'm vaccinated and encourage people to follow suit. But, also for the record, I will not shun those who hold an alternative view. Robust discussion and willing interactions are an integral part of a free democratic society, as is the need for respect and understanding for the other point of view. They are the hallmarks of a civilised and orderly liberal democratic society. Those fundamental principles, understandings and appreciations need to be fully grasped as we deal with COVID.</para>
<para>Our immunisation handbook informs us that valid legal consent should be obtained prior to immunisation and that undue pressure, manipulation or coercion are not the foundations of such valid legal consent. The threat of a two-tier society based on the vaxxed and the unvaxxed is not what I want for Australia. A divided society is a weakened society. People who want to be vaccinated should be given that opportunity and are availing themselves of the taxpayer funded rollout. Those who have concerns have a right to not so avail themselves, whilst their taxes are helping to pay for the rollout. It's how our society works.</para>
<para>But workers being threatened with dismissal unless they are vaccinated is not something I can support and indeed feel compelled to oppose. If vaccination does what it asserts, there should be no fear of the unvaccinated by the vaccinated. So, as soon as everyone who wants to be vaccinated has been given a reasonable opportunity to be so vaccinated, we should be getting back to normal for domestic purposes. To hear of labourers and medical specialists losing their jobs because of their views on vaccination is unacceptable. Medical students are being told they can't sit their exams if not vaccinated, but students in other disciplines can. A GP who doesn't want to be vaccinated will be denied practising even telehealth—go figure. Defence personnel who are at the peak of their physical wellbeing are threatened with dismissal if they don't submit.</para>
<para>It is now beyond question that those who are fully vaccinated can also catch and transmit the virus, which begs the question as to why only one group—the unvaccinated—is being discriminated against. We have a shortage of highly qualified defence personnel, workers, doctors and nurses, yet very soon not only will some of these committed and dedicated workers lose their gainful employment but their essential service will be denied to the wider community—livelihoods, careers and aspirations all being trashed whilst dividing us. Proportionality in these things is currently missing. Why do you need to be vaccinated to sit a medical exam or practise telehealth? Why are we denying much-needed services of all types to the community because of people's vaccination status?</para>
<para>Unvaccinated Australians—who, might I add, are overwhelmingly good, decent Australians—point to the risk of an adverse reaction to immunisation in comparison to the dangers of contracting COVID. Respectfully, I disagree, and that's why I'm vaccinated. But that doesn't stop me from acknowledging and respecting their right to their point of view or lead me to argue that they should be denied access to entertainment, shopping centres and churches, let alone their jobs and professions. Personal freedoms are the cornerstone of what makes Australia great, which is why I can't stand by and watch the long-held right to personal medical choices being thrown away:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.</para></quote>
<para>So said Ronald Reagan. He was correct.</para>
<para>Our authorities need to respect freedom and not create a two-tier society. The right to a job should not be dependent on a jab. By all means convince, but don't coerce. By all means educate, but don't discriminate. Protecting freedoms, including of those with whom we might disagree, is vital. Our failure to do so will have corrosive, long-term consequences.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Morrison Government</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Distrust and division: these are the two words defining the Morrison government today—two goals of a government that has nothing else to offer the Australian people. When you step back and look at how our nation is holding it together right now, it is difficult to comprehend exactly how we got here. We should be on the cusp of great things right now. We should be about to rebuild our economy and our society after two incredibly difficult years, during which the overwhelming majority of Australians pulled together. They did the right thing for themselves and their families and they understood that we are stronger when we work together as a community. We should be united in pride about the sacrifices that Australians made to keep each other safe. We should be in awe of the scientists who delivered vaccines, despite all the odds. We should be determined right now to lift up everyone who fell behind in the last two years.</para>
<para>As we head into a new year, we should be full of hope about what we can achieve in the future and be prepared for any setbacks that might come along the way. Instead, we are mired in distrust and division that is overseen by the highest elected officeholder in the land, our own Prime Minister; that has been actively fermented by the highest officeholder in the land; and that has been fanned by a prime minister who, everyone knows, is playing two sides of a very dangerous game. He is agreeing to condemn, under questioning, anti-democratic protesters threatening violence and threatening our democratic process in Melbourne. But, at the same time, he is using their exact language. He is using the exact language of these violent protesters over and over again, mimicking their lines that 'it's time for a government to get out of our lives'. This is a desperate and dangerous game. It is unbecoming of our Prime Minister. It undermines our democracy, it is a complete failure of leadership and it squanders the goodwill and the support Australians have been showing each other through these two years of crisis. It is a disgrace. It is a dog-whistling, vote-grubbing, desperate disgrace, and it is a hypocritical disgrace.</para>
<para>Imagine if, instead of all of this, our Prime Minister had just explained, over the last two years, that we needed restrictions in place while there were no vaccines to keep us safe. Imagine if we'd had a prime minister who had told the truth to the people—that, until he rolled out the vaccines, we would need rolling lockdowns. Imagine if we'd had a prime minister who had actively pursued those vaccines and bought them when they were available, so that people hadn't had to go through this second incredibly tough year. Imagine if, instead of Prime Minister Morrison, we had a national leader who could actually bring people together. The distrust and division that this Prime Minister and members of his government are actively courting is being piled onto a massive trust deficit that already exists and is overseen by our Prime Minister—a prime minister who is, at best, loose with the truth, a prime minister who has been caught out lying again and again, a prime minister who is always searching for the next line to get through his next difficult day. He bends with the breeze. He distracts and diverts and spins and spins, hoping no-one will know which way is up. He is a prime minister who moves to his next message just as fast as he can get from one press conference to the next, and he does all of this because he has absolutely no plan for our country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>[by video link] As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I note that we are living through a time of great civil disturbance. The media have chosen to fill our screens with exaggerated horror and fear. As a result, families are turning against families, neighbours against neighbours, and employers against employees. At this difficult time, we cannot lose sight of the good in this world. While it is daunting for some, we benefit from counting our blessings and looking forward to again becoming the Australia we all know and love. My message tonight is simple: 'abundance' is not a dirty word; it's a blessing to be appreciated.</para>
<para>Australia is blessed with natural diversity in climate and soil. Somewhere on our continent exist the conditions necessary to grow any crop to rival the world's best. Whether it's olives in Inglewood or cashews at Dimbulah, Aussie farmers will always step forward to have a go. As 42 countries slip into food deficits, Australia's agricultural output is at record highs. We're literally feeding the world right now, and more water for our farmers will feed more of the world's hungry. Our entrepreneurship lifted Australia from a prison colony to a top-10 world economy. Australians invented the black box flight recorder, heart pacemakers, the electric drill, bionic hearing, wi-fi hotspots and even Google Maps. This flow of innovation has not stopped. It continues. The University of Queensland has pioneered a world-first tissue culture system that can produce up to 500 avocado plants from a single cutting. This gives Australian producers the ability to bring new cultivars to market, faster, cheaper and using fewer chemicals than anywhere else in the world. The world avocado market is valued at $20 billion, and Australia has only $500 million of that so far.</para>
<para>Let's look at mining. An Australian invention called the Reflux Classifier allows for the recovery of minerals that normally run to waste in the processing of ore. The University of Newcastle pioneered this recent technology, returning $1.5 billion in royalties to Australia every year. The University of Newcastle recently registered a patent on a new type of low-cost thermal storage called miscibility gap alloy. Miscibility gap alloy raises the promise of storing energy from non-baseload power sources, to be fed back into the grid at times of peak energy demand. This has the potential for a multibillion dollar export and licensing industry. I certainly hope so, because that may stop some arguments about the proliferation of unreliable renewables—what I call 'intermittents'. Miscibility gap alloy could not exist without carbon and without mining. The economic powerhouse that is Australian mining has kept Australia out of recession these last two years. At one point, we had the world's largest value of stored natural resources. If we were still exploring for the bounty this land has given us, we may still be the richest country in the word. It's not too late. We need to reject the black-armband view of our history and, by extension, our future. We need to embrace entrepreneurship, to defend the inalienable right of everyday Australians to lift themselves up through hard work and enterprise, and we need to make sure the benefit of that hard work accrues to the Australians doing the work, to everyday Australians, not to foreign corporations. Let me explain.</para>
<para>The wealth each Australian creates every year, called the gross domestic product—per capita and inflation adjusted—increased from $41,000 per person in 1980 to $77,000 per person in 2019. Do we feel almost twice as wealthy as we did 40 years ago, though? No, definitely not. Median or mid-point wages have not increased in this period. The spoils of the hard work of everyday Australians have not gone to everyday Australians. Instead, this wealth has gone to foreign multinational corporations and to the administrative class. Public Service wages are growing at four per cent while private enterprise wages grow at less than one per cent, and that's just not right. What's needed in the short term is the removal of all COVID restrictions so the economy can open up and the Australian entrepreneurial spirit can repair the damage of COVID lockdown mismanagement. Then we need to remove green tape so farmers can farm and miners can mine. Instead of unelected, unaccountable foreign bureaucrats dictating to us, we must start making decisions for ourselves. Government does have a role to build the roads, the dams and the railroads. We need to restore our productive capacity to support this growth. Tax and finance reform are necessary to ensure that Australians can access the capital to expand and ensure that the profits from that expansion stay here.</para>
<para>We have one flag. We are one community. We are one people. We are one nation. Abundance is not to be ashamed of. Abundance is a blessing to celebrate.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Challenge of the Nations Netball Championships</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCARR</name>
    <name.id>282997</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was absolutely delighted to attend the opening ceremony for the 2021 Challenge of the Nations netball tournament, which was held at Bill Norris Oval, Beenleigh. Acting Deputy President McGrath, you would know Bill Norris Oval extremely well, as would my friend Senator Stoker.</para>
<para>The netball tournament was put on by a wonderful organisation called the Enuamanu Atiu Nui Maruarua Association of Queensland. The participants in the tournament—there was something like 90 teams in all—came from our Pacific family and our First Nations people. I would like to pay tribute to all the teams who participated, all the organisers and everyone involved in what was a wonderful event.</para>
<para>The competition is being played over two weekends—the weekend just gone and the weekend coming up—and there was a total of—if you can believe this—860 players, comprising 380 juniors and 480 seniors, with 12 teams from Cook Islands Netball Queensland, 10 First Nations teams, 17 teams from Queensland Maori Netball Inc., 11 teams from Niue Netball Queensland, eight teams from the QPNG Gold Netball Club—who hosted the opening ceremony, and I pay tribute to all of the great teenagers who dressed up in their cultural costumes to lead the march of the teams—18 teams from Queensland Samoa Netball Inc., two teams from Solomon Islands Brisbane Community Netball and 12 from Queensland Tonga Netball Inc. There was a total of 90 teams.</para>
<para>This is the seventh year of the competition, and I would like to make some comments in relation to the competition. Firstly, it was all about promoting the cultural identity of each of the nations represented in the tournament, and it was wonderful to see the young kids, especially, embracing their cultural identity. Secondly, you had all the Pacific family coming together with our First Nations people for this wonderful event, and it was all about bringing people together. So this wasn't just a netball competition. I have played—and Senator Stoker is smiling at me—some mixed netball in my distant past. I was not invited to participate in any of the teams, but it wasn't just about netball; it was a celebration of the cultural identity of each of our great Pacific family nations and of our First Nations people.</para>
<para>I would like to thank the following people for their involvement: Mr Kevin Dando, the wonderful MC, who acts as an MC in many events in the south-east corner of Queensland; Deborah Sandy and her daughter for a wonderful welcome to country, including a song in their traditional language which they shared with the audience; and Reverend Teremoana Uea, of the association, who held the opening prayer.</para>
<para>I'd like to specifically acknowledge the great work of the events manager, Jean Teamoke-Teao; it was wonderful work that she undertook. I acknowledge the president of the association, Teokotai Bruno TouAriki; the communications officer, Francis Ponia; the treasurer, Jessica Ina; the umpire coordinator, Tahu Whaanga, and assistant, Riley; the admin team of Pare Tapsell, Mecca Tapsell, Teano Teao and Jasmine Torope; timekeeper Ryley Ruhi—my time's running out, but I'm going to get through all these people—Cook Islands Netball Queensland representatives Ngaire-Ann Greig, Nane Glassie, and Kevin and Tupe Dando; Indigenous Australia team representative Shane Abrum, and Queensland Maori Netball Inc. representative Iris Ruhi; Niue Netball Queensland representatives Jade Noble and Rose Lio; QPNG Gold Netball Club netball club representatives Ann Marie and Christina Carswell; Queensland Samoa Netball Inc. representative Vania Gentle; Solomon Islands Brisbane Community Netball representative Atheca Kraus; and Queensland Tonga Netball Inc. representatives Joyce Cosgrove, Ponga and Sina. I think I've covered everyone.</para>
<para>I thank everyone involved in this tournament. My apologies if I didn't get the pronunciation right. I will make sure it's in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. Congratulations, one and all, for what was a wonderful event.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Youth Voice In Parliament Week: Climate Change, Australian Capital Territory</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLAGHER</name>
    <name.id>ING</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I received so many wonderful speeches from young people in my electorate as part of Raise Our Voice's Youth Voice in Parliament Week that I couldn't choose just one to read. So tonight I'd like to read a speech written by a 15-year-old Canberran named Sarah. 'My name is Sarah Perrett. I am a high school student in Canberra. I am 15 years old. I'm currently watching the government and citizens of Australia work together to bring an end to the pandemic in Australia. This has shown that the only way to solve big problems is with a big community.</para>
<para>My future for Australia is broad and inclusive. It's a future that gives everyone a chance to help. Everybody loves being part of something big and exciting. I believe that our future is big and exciting.</para>
<para>The environment is one of the most current and important issues. We should be aiming for a time where children don't have to worry about the environment. If we change how everyday Australians such as myself view the climate crisis then we can get them involved. We need more participation. Many know what is happening to our earth, but few know how they can help. We should be addressing the fact that fixing issues in Australia can also assist in fixing our earth. Problems such as the unhealthy amount of overeating in teenagers and children have an effect on Australia's environment.</para>
<para>There are many more of these problems that can be addressed. The only way to solve these nationwide problems is if we all do it together. If we work as a nation we can help everyone, but when we split we can't help anybody.'</para>
<para>Thank you, Sarah. I look forward to seeing you give a speech in parliament one day soon.</para>
<para>I would also like to speak briefly about another issue of great importance to Canberrans, and that is the ACT's democratic rights. Twenty-four years ago in federal parliament, Mr Andrews, a member of the other place, introduced laws that diminished the democratic rights of over half a million people. Those laws, which remain in place today, denied people living in the ACT and the Northern Territory the right to political autonomy with respect to voluntary assisted dying. Now, some 25 years on, and despite every state having debated or passed voluntary assisted dying legislation, another man continues to stand in the way of repealing these fundamentally unfair laws, single-handedly blocking the democratic rights of his constituents. That man is ACT senator Zed Seselja.</para>
<para>This isn't the first time that Senator Seselja has let his own views be prioritised over the overwhelming majority view of the community he claims to represent. From same-sex marriage to climate action, he actively campaigns against important issues in this place. But this is the first time that Senator Seselja has actively fought to have all Canberrans treated like second-class citizens. Earlier this week I presented a petition signed by thousands of Canberrans who want to see our democratic rights restored. When I started this petition on the issue, the response was immediate and overwhelming. Every ACT federal representative, other than Senator Seselja, supports the restoration of territory rights. Every member of the ACT Legislative Assembly, including every member of the Canberra Liberals, supports the restoration of our territory rights. Even those representatives who may not support voluntary assisted dying still support the right of our elected local parliament to have the debate.</para>
<para>I tabled my petition to let the record show that over 2,800 Canberrans want to enjoy the same democratic rights as every other Australian. They want their rights to align with those Australians who just so happen to live in a state. After 24 years of discrimination, and with every state now having debated voluntary assisted dying legislation, the time has long passed for this parliament to end the discrimination and restore territory rights. All we need is one more debate on a bill to get this done for the ACT and the Northern Territory. We could have had that debate this week in this place, but, as we've seen, this chaotic government refused to allow the debate on one of its own senator's bills to even occur in this chamber.</para>
<para>I will keep fighting on this issue. I want to see Canberrans have their democratic rights restored. They deserve the same rights as every other Australian. To think otherwise, as Senator Seselja does, isn't just outdated; it's simply unconscionable. We need to ensure that the debate happens respectfully. We need to ensure that the local parliaments in the Northern Territory and the ACT are given the same rights to debate the subject of voluntary assisted dying and we need to allow the citizens of those territories to enjoy the same rights as citizens who happen to live in a state around Australia.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>November 25 is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women. I wish we didn't need this day. I wish that there weren't any reasons for me to speak out about gendered violence in Australia and around the world. But it does serve as a reminder that we still need to take serious action if we are to have any hope of eliminating this violence. Violence against women continues to be at epidemic levels in this country. Every year, we continue to count the numbers, and every year they continue to be distressingly high. The Counting Dead Women Australia project reports that at least 38 women have lost their lives because of violence so far this year. Last year, we lost 56 women, and countless others suffered abuse and violence. We must do everything we can to end all forms of violence against women. We must prevent these deaths.</para>
<para>A report in June this year by the Queensland University of Technology's Centre for Justice confirmed our fears that domestic abuse increased during COVID-19 lockdowns. A study by the Harmony Alliance and Monash University, which was also published in June, found that one-third of migrant and refugee women surveyed had experienced some form of domestic and family violence. Women on temporary visas also experienced high levels of domestic violence. Yet, for so many, support services, such as crisis or social housing, are limited, as are protections against abuse. There is so much that needs to change. The housing crisis we are in particularly impacts people fleeing domestic violence. What happens if someone is fleeing violence and no emergency housing service has the capacity to accommodate them? They will be forced to stay in an abusive relationship. Research by ANROWS published in November 2020 found that almost half of the women murdered by an intimate partner in Queensland had previously been labelled by police as the perpetrator of domestic violence. How is this meant to give us faith in the current system?</para>
<para>An open letter from the Law Council of Australia warned the Attorney-General that the merging of the Family Court and the Federal Circuit Court would harm families and people experiencing family violence. The government, at the behest of One Nation, still pushed this bill through. I know that if the federal government treated violence against women with the seriousness and with the urgency it deserves we would not be in this position. But we have a real absence of national leadership. We do not have leaders willing to challenge and reform the systems and structures that allow gendered violence to continue. There is no question that violence and sexual assault services need more funding. We need to build women-only refuges and to properly fund specialist services. Women need to know that they will have the support they need when they walk away from violence, abuse and control. But eliminating violence against women isn't as simple as demanding that the government do more; it also demands deep changes in society and in entrenched patriarchal culture, attitudes and systems that allow violence against women to be normalised.</para>
<para>Gendered violence is deeply embedded in society. It affects all of us in both known and unknown ways. It is still painfully obvious that we need to do so much more. Governments need to do more. Society needs to do more. Women across this country have told us in no uncertain terms they will not rest until sexism, misogyny, abuse, violence, rape and assault against us becomes a thing of the past. Be assured that women united will never be defeated. We must listen and we must act to remove the gender inequities that pervade our society, including the gender pay gap, unpaid care work, poverty, sexual violence, harassment and discrimination. The International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women serves as a reminder of how much work still needs to be done. But my hope is that, in the very near future, we won't have to mark this day because women and children will be respected and be free from violence. I look forward to that day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Morrison, Mr Wayne (Fella)</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator THORPE</name>
    <name.id>280304</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to contribute to this adjournment debate. I would like to honour the life of Wayne 'Fella' Morrison. Wayne 'Fella' Morrison was a proud 29-year-old Wiradjuri, Kokatha and Wirangu man. He was a loving father, a keen outdoorsman, a fisherman and an artist. He was a gentle and kind man. He is loved deeply by his family, and they miss him terribly, every single day.</para>
<para>In September 2016, police officers forced a spit hood on Wayne's head. They cuffed his wrists and ankles at Yatala Labour Prison, and he was thrown facedown in a van. A spit hood is a mesh fabric device that covers your mouth. It covers your face and often your head too, making it difficult to breathe. They are often forcefully pulled on to a person's head and secured with an elastic band around the neck—imagine that! Let's be clear: spit hoods are torture devices. Tragically, Wayne was pulled unconscious from that van and died three days later from causes including asphyxia.</para>
<para>We don't really know what happened in that van. There's no CCTV footage. At this stage officers are still refusing to give evidence. No-one has been held accountable, so the fight continues. There's no justice. Wayne's family continues to fight for justice every day. They have achieved something absolutely remarkable this month because they didn't give up the fight. On 18 November the South Australian lower house voted on 'Fella's Bill' to permanently ban the use of spit hoods in South Australia. Wayne's family's fight for justice meant that South Australia was the first jurisdiction to ban the use of spit hoods by law. The first jurisdiction—what does that mean? Every other jurisdiction gets away with it. Since Fella's death his family have been demanding a ban on spit hoods to prevent any other family from having to go through that intense anguish and pain of having a loved one killed by the criminal legal system. This is a pain that our people know all too well. This ban on spit hoods also shows how preventable deaths in custody are, particularly Aboriginal deaths in custody, which you all keep ignoring—we can change this with political will and courage. We don't see much of that in here, obviously.</para>
<para>I honour the work of Wayne's family, and I demand that this parliament, and, in fact, all parliaments, pass legislation to ban the use of spit hoods. Around the world international human rights organisations have called for an end to the use of spit hoods by police and prison officers. Many people have died or been seriously inquired. Spit hoods are a threat to human life, dignity and safety. If spit hoods had been banned, Fella might still be here. Spit hoods are state-sanctioned torture devices. We will never forget the image out of the Don Dale Youth Detention Centre when 13-year-old brother Dylan Voller was strapped to a chair and spit-hooded by prisoner officers.</para>
<para>This is the 30th anniversary of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody. We have to stop torturing black people in this country—240 years of torture has to stop. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak up for fairness and equality, specifically in support of the fundamental notion that those who are doing the same job should be treated in the same way, especially when it comes to wages and conditions. This is a principle that many working people have fought and struggled in support of, for so many years. One would hope that in modern-day Australia this value of fairness and equity would be well enshrined by now, and one could certainly be forgiven for assuming that the principle of 'same job, same pay' would be upheld within the Australian Public Service, an institution that should be setting the standard for employment conditions for our entire national workforce. But, sadly, many thousands of Australians who work for the Commonwealth government know only too well that this is not the case, because under the Scott Morrison-Barnaby Joyce government we have seen an absolute explosion of the use of labour hire across all departments within our national Public Service. That is to say, we are seeing a big increase in the number of staff who do the work of the Commonwealth government but are not directly employed by the government. The sad truth is that those workers employed through labour hire firms to work for the Commonwealth are not treated equally to the APS staff that they work alongside. Invariably and inevitably, these labour hire workers earn far less—and receive far less in entitlements and training—than their permanent counterparts in secure jobs.</para>
<para>How insidious and widespread is the use of labour hire by the Australian Public Service? We don't exactly know, but we should. According to the Community and Public Sector Union there are at least 20,000 labour hire workers working alongside permanent staff in the Australian Public Service. In my home state of Tasmania, there are at least 350 labour hire staff working for the Commonwealth government, with the CPSU estimating the real figure could be as high as 500 positions. By some estimates, in some departments it may well be as high as 42 per cent of the total workforce. That's according to a <inline font-style="italic">Canberra Times</inline> analysis from this year that also found contracted labour averaged one in five workers across the 14 Commonwealth government departments. That analysis found the Department of Veterans' Affairs topped out with a figure of 42 per cent of staff engaged through labour hire firms—almost one in two workers. It's extraordinary, unnecessary, unfair and costly to the Commonwealth. This practice has to change. It's a disservice both to the workers employed directly by the APS and to the labour hire workers who work alongside them. It's a disservice to the nation, it's costly and it's just not right. We should expect more from our own national government, a supposed model employer.</para>
<para>Labor wants to do something about it. We've got the backs of working people right across this country, particularly those in insecure work, and we've got the backs of the many thousands of Australians who work in public service for the Australian people. A Labor government will end the practice of paying labour hire workers less than those who are directly employed by the employer when they are actually doing exactly the same job. The present system is a distortion, and an unfair one at that, and it's not in the interests of taxpayers. Under the Morrison-Joyce government, taxpayer funds have been gushing into the coffers of expensive labour-hire firms who then pocket the funds while starting their workers on thinned-out pay packets and slimmed-down conditions. Labor will seek to rein in this wasteful practice.</para>
<para>An Albanese Labor government will conduct an audit of employment across the entire APS to weed out those areas where temporary forms of work are being used in an inappropriate manner. Instead of using it to line the pockets of the big labour hire firms, an Albanese Labor government will use precious taxpayers' money wisely, fairly and sensibly by employing those who work for the Commonwealth government directly in our Australian Public Service with secure jobs and fair pay and conditions, and we'll make sure that they have a fair bargaining framework. But it won't stop there. Our commitment to fairness and equality in the workplace and the notion of 'same job, same pay' extends beyond our Public Service to the entire workforce. In fact, so committed is Labor to achieving this principle, we're prepared to give the government an opportunity to do it for us. They can support Labor's 'same job, same pay' bill. They only have to have the workers' best interests at heart.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Indigenous Australians: Fire Management, Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COX</name>
    <name.id>296215</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Tonight I would like to highlight some of the important work being done by First Nations peoples to protect country through fire management. First Nations peoples have been undertaking traditional fire management for tens of thousands of years. Since colonisation and the removal of First Nations peoples from their land, we have seen the emergence of large, uncontrolled wildfires. These late-dry-season wildfires damage our ecosystems and habitats. In the last few decades we have seen the revival of traditional fire management practices in the Kimberley and across northern Australia. This includes the emergence of savanna-burning carbon projects. Unlike carbon capture and storage projects, which are unproven and haven't been shown to work anywhere, these savanna-burning carbon projects use First Nations knowledge and science. Savanna burning involves the lighting of cool fires in targeted areas during the early dry season, between March and July. These fires burn slowly, reduce fuel loads and create firebreaks. Indigenous rangers and traditional owners work to undertake early-dry-season burning to limit the extent of destructive late-dry-season wildfires. At the moment there are 32 First Nations owned and operated savanna fire projects, abating around one million tonnes of emissions a year. A massive seven per cent of Australia's total carbon credit units are produced by First Nations carbon businesses.</para>
<para>Northern Australian fire management is now recognised as world best practice. This is what happens when you lead with First Nations science and knowledge. Savanna-burning carbon projects come with substantial benefits for both people and planet. These range from allowing First Nations people to practice cultural burning techniques right through to the intergenerational exchange of traditional knowledge and practices. First Nations organisations involved in fire management also report an increase in their capacity to care for country, culture and communities as a result of their engagement in the carbon industry. These projects also provide hundreds of jobs for First Nations rangers, who are at the heart of traditional fire management practices.</para>
<para>At the same time, it's important to note that traditional fire management practices are not culturally appropriate everywhere. Whenever cultural burning is undertaken it needs to be done properly and scientifically, and it must be undertaken in line with the principles of free, prior and informed consent. In WA savanna-burning is used up north in the Kimberley, but it's less common down south in more populated areas. It's essential that the government and conservation groups work with First Nations people to co-design fire management plans that are culturally appropriate and work to improve the health of our habitats, our forests and our woodlands.</para>
<para>I'm proud to say the Greens are taking a caring-for-country planto the next election, which was recently launched by my colleague Senator Thorpe. We have a plan to strengthen laws to protect First Nations tangible and intangible heritage, expand Indigenous protected areas that are owned, cared for and managed by First Nations people, and triple the funding of First Nations ranger programs. This plan gives the resources to the people who know best. First Nations people have cared for lands and waters for tens of thousands of years. We have the wisdom and the knowledge to heal and care for our country. As we enter into summer, I hope that we can all learn to take time to listen to First Nations people when it comes to traditional fire management practices—where appropriate—because we cannot have climate justice without justice for First Nations people.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak about mandatory vaccination and vaccination passports. I have been consistent in raising my concerns about these matters since they were first mooted. This, coupled with the sheer multitude of emails and communications I have received from the Australian public, prompted me to vote for the COVID-19 Vaccination Status (Prevention of Discrimination) Bill yesterday. I state from the outset that I am not opposed to vaccination. I am fully vaxxed. Indeed, I'm the holder of an International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis, issued under the international health regulations and referred to commonly as the yellow book, for obvious reasons. As Minister for International Development and the Pacific, I did about 50 trips overseas, so you can appreciate that my yellow book is actually quite full.</para>
<para>The opposition that we have witnessed regarding mandatory vaccination and vaccination passports is a culmination of the slings and arrows Australians have faced since of the beginning of last year. Since April last year I have been saying that, when people lose their jobs, lose their livelihoods, lose their businesses and suffer the mental anguish that goes with all of that, they will look for someone to blame, and they will blame the politicians. There is no doubt that problems with the vaccine rollout and the issues with the AstraZeneca vaccine resulted in vaccine hesitancy. Regrettably, the positive benefit of the vaccine in saving lives was lost.</para>
<para>The former Deputy Chief Medical Officer Dr Coatsworth stated in an op-ed in the <inline font-style="italic">Sydney Morning Herald</inline> on 24 July that dishonesty by 'risk-averse academics' armed with webcams overstated the devastation likely to be wrought by clotting. Furthermore, there was a perception that there was no real choice available to people. It was clear from the beginning of the pandemic that some in the community did not want to be vaccinated or could not be vaccinated. At that time it was important that all options, including complementary choices, should have at least been made publicly available. Instead, the messaging was confused and disjointed. Credible experts like Emeritus Professor Robert Clancy, an immunologist at the University of Newcastle, and emerging data from other countries were dismissed, notwithstanding credible trials showing alternative and complementary medicines were reducing the duration and infectiousness of COVID.</para>
<para>I come now to the national cabinet. It was supposed to facilitate cooperation. Australians are not interested in the bickering between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. However, there has been a growing perception that the Commonwealth has forfeited control. The states and territories are doing what they can but the Commonwealth is bearing the brunt of the blame for failures, including quarantine and vaccination. In an article in the <inline font-style="italic">Australian</inline> on 28 July titled 'National cabinet "not fit for purpose"', Paul McClintock, who led the COAG reform council for Prime Minister Howard, noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Ad hoc meetings of federal and state leaders is no way to run an effective federation. It is a questionable use of the word cabinet. The term cabinet sets up an image of collective responsibility. This body has none of that.</para></quote>
<para>He further noted:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The national cabinet has seen premiers split on lockdowns, vaccines and border closures, and its members have attacked each other's governments multiple times throughout the pandemic.</para></quote>
<para>Despite supposedly agreeing to the national plan, it is clear that the premiers are not following the script.</para>
<para>I now turn to lockdowns. The disquiet and anger at lockdowns has progressively increased. In the beginning, there was greater understanding, but now people are fed up. Australians have seen liberties taken away and draconian measures imposed which were not scrutinised by parliaments around Australia. As someone who manages her own email account, I have watched the stridency of communications increase markedly since last year. The disquiet has now grown to red hot anger. Constituents are very critical of lockdowns and the long-term effects. Many businesses will not survive the stop-start conditions they have faced for almost two years and the economic consequences which will take years to recover from. On the social front, we have heard about increased suicides, more domestic violence and child abuse, loneliness and people forgoing medical treatment. What is the long-term cost of this? Will the cure be worse than the disease?</para>
<para>Last year I saw a video of about 20 residents in a nursing rehab facility in the US who were protesting against COVID restrictions. Many residents in wheelchairs were holding up signs saying, 'I'd rather die from COVID than loneliness.' I am especially concerned about the long-term effects on our children and young people, with studies showing that school closures have done more harm than the virus. The <inline font-style="italic">Daily Telegraph</inline> of 1 August reported the number of 12- to 17-year-olds presenting to New South Wales emergency departments with self-harm or suicidal ideation was up 47 per cent in July 2021, compared with July 2019. Mental health became the shadow pandemic.</para>
<para>Whilst the language of the premiers was that we needed to live with the virus, they acted to the contrary. It was about suppression, eradication and zero cases. Lockdowns became the default. We became 'Fortress Australia'. Sadly, we lost perspective. We forgot that, sadly, every year there are approximately 170,000 deaths in Australia, with flu and pneumonia being the ninth leading cause of death. The statistics indicate the overwhelming majority of people who got COVID recovered, and deaths were mainly of the elderly, who often had other complications. For most it was a mild illness. There has also been increasing anger that the benefits of lockdowns have outweighed the costs—the costs to our Australian way of life across a whole range of different areas, especially the deprivation of civil liberties; it deteriorated the longer lockdowns went on. Many saw firsthand the heavy-handedness in lockdowns, such as police brutality, curtailment of religious practice and other things, all resulting in civil disobedience and criticism of those who chose to voice their concerns in a peaceful and democratic manner, who were faced with hatred and vilification and tagged as antivaxxers. Many who protested were not antivaxxers; they were opposed to people being forced to get vaccinated.</para>
<para>On the issue of vaccine passports, many agree that this is a further erosion of liberties, especially given that fully vaccinated people not only can get COVID but also can transmit the virus. Indeed, unvaccinated people may never get the virus and accordingly never transmit it. So, forcing people to be vaccinated or requiring people to disclose their medical information is a dangerous precedent. It threatens fundamental freedoms and the potential to create a multitiered society where people are denied basic access to what they need. Most importantly, let's keep in mind that <inline font-style="italic">The Australian Immunisation Handbook</inline> sets out procedures including what constitutes valid consent for treatment and says that it must be given voluntarily in the absence of undue pressure, coercion or manipulation.</para>
<para>Whilst the national cabinet and the Australian government has pronounced that vaccination must be voluntary, the directions given have been confused and unclear. In the absence of clear leadership, businesses and organisations have struggled unfairly because national cabinet failed to provide a clear and defined protocol for all Australians to follow. Yes, I appreciate that vaccination levels are high, but, judging from the volume of correspondence, many got vaccinated not because they wanted to but because they felt compelled to. Hence the term 'medical apartheid', which has continued to cause resentment.</para>
<para>Many of the people who are protesting are ordinary Australians, although there have been some people amongst them who are using the events for their own purposes, and we have to understand what's driving people to go into the streets and protest. We can't just dismiss them, or we will risk seeing their resolve hardening and others joining them. We need to understand the insecurity that results when livelihoods are taken away and people feel compelled to take action.</para>
<para>There has been a lack of parliamentary scrutiny afforded to pandemic measures. At the federal level, over 500 COVID instruments have been made, many of which were not scrutinised. The states, using their own powers, have also imposed draconian measures, the latest of which is the pandemic bill in Victoria from Premier Andrews. I note that there's been very little criticism of the bill from the federal government, which is obvious, given that it is mirrored on the provisions of the federal Biosecurity Act. Indeed, we became somewhat of a laughing-stock overseas, and report after report outlined how one of the world's freest societies had become the hermit continent. I have no doubts, as I stated back in April last year, that we as politicians will shoulder the blame because, sadly, we failed to scrutinise the measures we were imposing on Australians. I believe that, had we done so, many of the draconian measures imposed would not have been approved.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Myanmar: Rohingya People</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As we approach the Christmas season, I always give myself the opportunity to speak as a Christian into this space. I feel very privileged to be a person of faith in the Labor Party who is here and has this opportunity to speak to matters that emerge from my sense of my own faithfulness. I note that in the gospel many questions are asked by Jesus and his followers as to, 'Who is my brother? Who is my neighbour? When should I help people?' And there are many answers there, and that is about acknowledging the deep humanity of every person.</para>
<para>So as a person of faith I speak today to the reality that is the lived experience of the Rohingya minority in Myanmar. This is a matter of international consequence, and the people there are our brothers and sisters. There was the recent coup by the Tatmadaw, the Myanmar military. They've taken over the news, and another major crime of Myanmar's military has slowly slipped from the headlines. I want to speak today in this chamber on the continued persecution of the Rohingya people and of Muslims all over Myanmar and ask all here to turn their minds and their attention to the plight of these people, our brothers and sisters in this region.</para>
<para>The plight of the Rohingya is now one of the world's most blatant and overlooked cases of religious and ethnic prosecution. To date, hundreds of thousands of Rohingya are crammed into refugee camps with little to no economic prospect or services. The Rohingya are a mostly Muslim minority population within Myanmar, principally in the Rakhine state on the border with Bangladesh. The Rohingya have lived in Rakhine and its predecessor state, Arakan, since the eighth century and are a mixture of diverse ethnic groups, including Arabs, Mongols and Bengals.</para>
<para>Conflict between the Rohingya and the majority Buddhist population has been ongoing throughout the 20th century since Myanmar received independence from the British in the 1940s. In 1982 the Rohingya were denied citizenship under the new nationality law, which precluded them from basic freedoms, such as movement, public education, the right to vote and access to employment. In 1989 the junta changed the name of the state from Arakan, a name used for centuries, to Rakhine to privilege the Buddhist Rakhine ethnic group, who also form a significant minority population in the region.</para>
<para>When the 1990 election saw the election of four Rohingya MPs the junta dissolved the parliament, arrested, jailed and tortured MPs. I stand here before you as an MP and think about the way we think about service in our country. I know that around the world MPs suffer this kind of attack. We should never take freedom for granted. We should never take the privileges of this place for granted. We should be standing up for people who are oppressed and people who are hunted down.</para>
<para>Over the last decade tensions have risen between the Rohingya and the increasingly powerful ultranationalist Buddhist sect, who were empowered during the decades of military rule. The ruling military spread fears that the tiny Muslim population of Myanmar, which currently stands at just five per cent of the population, will rise and 'outbreed' the current Buddhist majority. Extremists, such as the Buddhist monk Ashin Wirathu, have spread hate and vile lies. They make general assertions such as Muslims are all rapists and Muslims are determined to integrate Buddhist women into their religion and culture. The Buddhist monk Wirathu has also spread ludicrous claims that the halal way of killing cattle allows familiarity with blood and could escalate to the level where it threatens world peace. Wirathu frequently posts fake news online about supposed crimes committed by Muslims. These lies are then propagated to tens of thousands of people via Facebook and YouTube and by the 2,500 monks that he oversees. This vile religious bigotry is straight out of the Fascist textbook, but instead of being stamped out it has infected all aspects of Myanmar society.</para>
<para>In 2014 anti-Muslim riots broke out in Mandalay, Myanmar's former royal capital, leaving two people dead. Muslims across Myanmar are now being forced to register as foreigners rather than as citizens of Myanmar. Of course, this leads to further discrimination and alienation. However, the simmering conflict did not come to a head until 2017 when the Arakan Rohingya Salvation Army, ARSA for short, attacked the government outposts. ARSA was then declared a terrorist group and the Tatmadaw deployed 70 battalions to Rakhine state. The soldiers responded with disproportionate and indiscriminate violence, including random murders, widespread sexual assault, torture and mass detention. The Tatmadaw ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Rohingya from their homeland and forced them across the border into Bangladesh, into what is now arguably the world's largest refugee camp, Cox's Bazar. These atrocities were completely disproportionate to the provocation and fit into a decades-long pattern of discrimination and dehumanisation of the Rohingya minority.</para>
<para>The Rohingya people languish to this day in squalor in these camps, eking out an existence on the fringes of Bangladesh society and abandoned by their homeland and supposed protectors. I note there has been some international action on this issue. US President Biden has sanctioned Myanmar's generals in relation to these war crimes. New Zealand has suspended all high-level contact with Myanmar and imposed travel bans on its military leaders. Australia has provided $89 million in humanitarian assistance and targeted sanctions on the military leaders responsible. But the humanitarian crisis remains. There are 860,000 Rohingya who are still stateless and displaced. They're living in refugee camps and in poverty. The COVID-19 pandemic has only made this awful situation that much worse. A December 2020 UNHCR report noted that food insecurity had risen, household income had dropped, 10 per cent of camp residents had reported that their health had deteriorated, and education was severely disrupted in the refugee camps due to the ongoing effects of the pandemic and multiple other complicating factors.</para>
<para>Colleagues, we must do more to act. The actions of the Tatmadaw against the Rohingya are acts of genocide and crimes against humanity. Any semblance of democracy has been shrugged off by this year's military coup. I urge that strong action be taken by Australia in order to protect the vulnerable Rohingya populations and ensure that their human rights are upheld and protected. The ability to manifest your faith and your cultural identity should never be curtailed by any government or military junta. The coup will only make things worse for the Rohingya people. Australia needs to stand against genocide in our region now and forever. Australia has done great work together with good people in the Asia-Pacific. We can and we should play a very significant role with our regional allies to make Rakhine safer for the Rohingya. We should call out and sanction the military leaders responsible for crimes against humanity.</para>
<para>As I speak this, again I think of the excitement that we all have as we come off the end of the COVID crisis here in Australia and as people look to Christmas with hope. Friends of mine have already told me that they've put their Christmas trees up early this year because they just want to have some beacon on the horizon. While we are looking to Christmas with that hope, we know that for the Rohingya the situation is getting worse and worse under a military junta and exacerbated by the pandemic. I urge all those here in the chamber and leaders amongst our parties to really do whatever we can to support the human rights of the Rohingya and I urge the government, with our regional partners, to show leadership now and not later—now, as people are suffering—in order to do more to halt the military junta and its genocidal campaign. My Christmas prayer is that we act in a way that provides some hope to the Rohingya people so that they know they do not suffer alone, that their brothers and sisters of many faiths around the world are not ignoring their plight.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian Greens believe that universal human rights are fundamental and must be respected and protected in all countries and for all people. Unfortunately, across the world the rights to freedom, dignity and equality of so many people are under threat, and it is so vital for us to advocate for the rights of people in Australia and overseas, to highlight the incredible resilience of advocacy work of on-the-ground activists, campaigners and journalists and to stand in solidarity with them in their crusade for justice and truth telling.</para>
<para>Tonight, I will first draw attention to Australia's own need to recognise the rights of all people, including trans, gender diverse and intersex people and all LGBTIQA+ people, to live with dignity, be seen, be affirmed and be celebrated for who they are. Celebrating and upholding the rights of all people to live lives free from discrimination stands in stark contrast to the approach of this government with its religious discrimination bill, which we have just seen the text of tonight. We're still analysing the bill, but it's clear that this is legislation that would increase discrimination rather than decrease it. It would increase discrimination against LGBTIQA+ people, against women, against people with disabilities and against people of minority faiths. It would override hard-fought antidiscrimination legislation in the states and territories, including section 17 of the Tasmanian Anti-Discrimination Act, which prohibits speech that offends, insults or humiliates people based on other characteristics, such as race, age, sex or disability.</para>
<para>This bill says that statements of belief will not be considered to be discrimination. What does this mean? It means that it would be legal for single mothers to be berated as sinners; for women to be admonished that they should submit to their husbands; or for women who choose to terminate a pregnancy to be told that they will be going to hell. It means that it would be legal for people with disabilities to be told that their disability is a punishment from God and it would allow a waiter to tell a gay couple enjoying a romantic lunch that they will pray to God to heal them of their same-sex attraction. And it will be legal for trans and gender-diverse people to have their very identity undermined and attacked just on the grounds that those views are a statement of belief by some people of faith.</para>
<para>Don't get me wrong: people have the right to hold those views. They can believe anything they want, but they should not have the right to impose those views on others who do not share them. Everyone deserves to be loved, and to be protected by the state. They should be able to go to school, work or anywhere else free from discrimination. We are still on a long and arduous journey to equality, and the government's religious discrimination bill would leave us much further from the end of this journey than ever.</para>
<para>I would now like to move on to the human rights situation in India. The health of Australia's bilateral relationship with India is based on the presumption of India's constitutional guarantee of equality and justice to all its citizens. However, the democratic and human rights of India's peoples are very much under threat. According to Human Rights Watch, the BJP government has increasingly harassed, arrested and prosecuted human rights defenders, activists, journalists, students and academics who have been critical of the government or its policies. The government has also continued to impose harsh and discriminatory restrictions on Muslim majority areas in Jammu, in Kashmir.</para>
<para>Over the last year, 22 year old climate activist Disha Ravi was arrested in India for merely sharing a climate toolkit. Muslim journalist Rana Ayoob routinely gets sent violent threats of rape and death for critically reporting on the BJP government. These atrocities against women, young people and Muslim people must be condemned. Recently, according to an Amnesty International report, over 300 politicians, journalists and businesses were on a list of potential targets of the covert Israeli-made spyware Pegasus. These included a majority of opposition leaders in India, security forces, judiciary and cabinet ministers in glaring violation of India's constitutional guarantee of the right to privacy. Alarmingly, facial-recognition technologies, surveillance technologies and spyware were discussed and celebrated by our Prime Minister Morrison and Foreign Minister Payne at the Sydney dialogue.</para>
<para>In contrast, the Greens believe that the Australian government should be seriously questioning and challenging Indian leaders on their excessive use of these technologies to marginalise minority communities—women, LGBTIQA+ people and Muslim, Dalit and Adivasi communities. The Australian government should condemn the development of covertly installed spyware like Pegasus by the Israeli government, which is used to stifle voices of dissent. We should also follow the US in putting the Pegasus software on a trade blacklist.</para>
<para>I now want to move to the situation in Sri Lanka. Tamil community members here in Australia have told me of their deep alarm about attacks on Tamils by the Sri Lankan government. Earlier this year, the Sri Lankan authorities ordered the bulldozing of a memorial paying tribute to the victims of the 2009 Mullivaikkal massacre, which was a mass killing of Tamils. This is one of many instances of Sri Lankan authorities attempting to erase Tamils from the community. In March 2021 Australia backed the UK-led resolution at the United Nations Human Rights Council, expressing deep concern at the deteriorating situation in Sri Lanka, noting the excessive militarisation and erosion of the judiciary's independence. However, just one month later, we were supplying aerial surveillance drones to Sri Lanka, to deter and disrupt asylum seekers trying to reach Australia.</para>
<para>It is high time for the Australian government to acknowledge Tamil people in Sri Lanka as a persecuted minority and divest from providing military support to Sri Lankan authorities. We should be standing in solidarity with, and increasing support for, Tamil refugees and asylum seekers in Australian communities.</para>
<para>I now want to move to Myanmar. I repeat my ask—which we have heard time and time again, from people in Myanmar, from the people here in Australia, and globally—for the Australian government to impose targeted sanctions on the leaders of the military coup. Radios produced by Australian company Barrett Communications have been sold to the Myanmar military junta. Such trade must immediately be stopped; otherwise, Australia is complicit in the anti-democracy coup by the military junta. Yet despite the loud, persistent and completely justified calls to support democracy in Myanmar and not sanction the junta, Minister Dutton recently met with representatives from the junta regime at the ASEAN-Australia defence ministers' virtual meeting.</para>
<para>We condemn this palpable disregard of the people's democracy in Myanmar and consider Minister Dutton's meeting with the junta as a message of recognising an illegitimate regime that took power by force and is committing atrocities against innocent civilians. Instead of legitimising the junta, the Australian government should have formal government-to-government meetings with, and recognising, the National Unity Government.</para>
<para>Recently, I rallied with community members in solidarity with Sudanese people fighting for democracy in Sudan. In the last few weeks so many people, including ministers, journalists and civilian protesters, have been, tragically, arrested by the government. The Australian government should be actively, loudly and persistently condemning this unjust military coup and actively working with governments across the world for a just transition of power to a legitimate democratic government, ensuring peace and justice for Sudanese people.</para>
<para>Finally, I speak about Ethiopia, where the Tigrayan and Oromo people are being persecuted by the military state. According to a UN and Ethiopian Human Rights Council joint report, the Ethiopian regime has displayed appalling levels of brutality, especially towards women. As the UN Human Rights Council also recognised in a recent update, Tigrayan forces have allegedly been responsible for attacks on civilians, including indiscriminate killings resulting in nearly 76,500 people displaced in Afar and an estimated 200,000 people in Amhara.</para>
<para>The Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade on human rights recently heard very powerful evidence about this issue. We heard from diaspora members, Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and others. There was a single, clear message: the Australian government must do more; the international community must do more. There were clear recommendations put forward by the Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect. We support those calls for a humanitarian ceasefire, for the government of Ethiopia to remove the humanitarian blockade and for the deployment of international monitors. I call on the Australian government to amplify these calls. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired) </inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>China, Australian Broadcasting Corporation</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Over recent months, China has continued to defy the sovereignty of Taiwan and many other nations in our immediate region. Earlier this year, both China and Russia sent a chilling message to the rest of the world in staging war games in north-western China. This display of strength not only demonstrates the increasingly close ties between Beijing and Moscow but shows the culpability between the two powers, with Russian forces seen firing Chinese weapons. Communist China has grown arrogantly comfortable, to a worrying degree, in showing its preparedness for conflict. This new show of strength is the next step in China's strategy to assert their dominance and expand their influence in the region.</para>
<para>Communist China is a bully. It comes as the rest of the world turns a blind eye to the fact that China's pressure in Hong Kong has completely overthrown the one country, two systems agreement. Hong Kong has gone. Hong Kong is one of the many tragedies arising from COVID-19 pandemic. Indeed, it was the first casualty. I think it is very clear who will be next, and, if the time comes, it will be one of the greatest tests for the free world. Will we come to the aid of our democracy-loving friends in Taiwan or sit idly by and let it happen, like Chamberlain succumbing to 'peace in our time', only to find what comes down the track far worse?</para>
<para>The threat to Taiwan is ever reflected in the gradual rise of soft-power China in influencing the rest of the world to maintain authority over the language around Taiwan. Back in August, Beijing spectacularly expelled the Lithuanian ambassador and withdrew its own envoy from Lithuania because that nation moved to set up diplomatic ties with Taiwan, while, in recent days, China has further reduced the level of its diplomatic relations with Lithuania to below ambassador level for allowing Taiwan to set up an office under its own name in Lithuania. Either way that China is increasing its pressure on both Taiwan and the rest of the word cannot go unnoticed. This mostly unfettered expansion and the ability to make demands over so many nations mean that Communist China is not only strategising for global leadership—or, better put, dictatorship—but seeks to position itself as a price-taker, not a giver, when it comes to trade.</para>
<para>I have previously warned about the United States's concern about China's Coast Guard Law that explicitly allows its coastguard to fire on foreign vessels in pursuit of China's claims and ongoing territorial and maritime disputes in the East China and South China seas. In addition, China flexed their muscle by sending multiple spy ships to observe this year's Talisman-Sabre exercise off the coast of Rockhampton, all the while performing their own military drills off the coast of Taiwan in what is widely seen as a dress rehearsal for an invasion of that country, despite Washington's interventions. This assertive and provocative behaviour from the Communist Party in China has fast become their default reaction to any decision that they do not favour. It will continue to be used to intimidate China's maritime neighbours, especially in asserting its unlawful maritime claims in the South China Sea, and that is why our government has turned to our strongest, oldest and most steadfast allies in the United States and the United Kingdom. I cannot stress enough how significant the new trilateral security pact, AUKUS, is. As China grows more aggressive by the day, this partnership is crucial to ensuring enduring peace, as well as ensuring that free and open trade continues in our region.</para>
<para>We should always endeavour to work with China. However, we cannot be ignorant of their continued efforts to coerce and intimidate other countries. Communist China is the greatest threat to peace and the rule of law since Stalin's Soviet Union. We must be pragmatic, yet realistic, about the actions of China and what they mean for us and our allies. We must always stand up for our values as a liberal democracy. We cannot pretend that the regime in China today or tomorrow is the same as the China we have dealt with in the past. Economic war has already been declared on Western nations around the globe, and here in Australia we've already felt the effects of that on our wine, our barley and our beef. We must carefully consider how we continue to deal with China and the exemptions we sometimes afford them. As China continues to exert this subtle yet ever-present force, it is important that the rest of the free world continues to take a strong stance on China. We need to hold China to the same standard on issues of trade, law and human rights. We must be careful and we must be aware.</para>
<para>The Australian Broadcasting Corporation needs to be reformed to be saved from itself. The ABC is a $1.1 billion organisation funded by the taxpayer, yet the ABC, along the track, has wandered off course, leaving us in the unfortunate position we are in now, wondering what we should do with the ABC. We saw that today in the Senate where Labor and the Greens combined to stop an inquiry into something as innocent as the complaints process within the ABC. What we're seeing is a grotesque, left-wing, back-scratching orgy of flatulent arrogance from the ABC and those on the Left. This ABC who sneers at us is led by an arrogant chair who sees the ABC as a country apart from Australia. And that is quite sad.</para>
<para>The inevitable result of decades of free rein, of grossly excessive budgets and diminished accountability is that we've ended up with an inner-city hive of woke workers, hiring woke friends to do their woke work in their quest to wokify the world. But in conjunction with the first-night crowd, the chair of the ABC and her fellow first-nighters are at the opera, chinking their champagne glasses, sneering at middle Australia and at those who believe in a pluralistic, diverse media market. It is time for there to be reform of the ABC. It is time for the recruitment process to be opened up. It is time for their inner-city headquarters to be sold and for their staff to be shifted to regional Australia. It is time for there to be a proper review of the charter of the ABC.</para>
<para>But it needs to go beyond that. I have written to the minister for communications calling for an inquiry into the future of public broadcasting in this country. We have the ABC model, which is essentially an old wireless trundling along, yet we have a pluralistic, diverse media market. And the ABC, this taxpayer funded monolith, is not fit for purpose in the 21st century. So we need an inquiry into the future of public broadcasting in Australia. We need to determine whether there is a need to fund triple J and all these different TV and radio stations. I will say, as someone who lives and spends a lot of their time in regional Queensland, there is a place for a taxpayer funded broadcaster in regional Queensland and regional Australia because there is not a diverse media market there. But in terms of the rest of our country, it is time for a royal commission into the future of public broadcasting in this country. It is time that we stood up for the taxpayers of this country who are not getting value for money, and it is time that the board of the ABC—that most arrogant organisation—realise they are losing middle Australia because we have choice. There is so much diversity in our media market and it would be sad if the ABC were to fail and fall over. I want the ABC to be saved. I want it to be reformed so it can be saved from itself.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Grey Electorate</title>
          <page.no>-1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to take the opportunity to make a few remarks about the electorate of Grey, South Australia's largest electorate, which covers no less than 92 per cent of the state. For those senators not familiar with Grey, the major population centres are Ceduna, Port Lincoln, Whyalla, Port Augusta, Roxby Downs, Port Pirie and Kadina. In my time as a senator I've spent a lot of time travelling around Grey. Whyalla is my hometown. I grew up there and I have family there. I've long had an affinity for that fine city, for the coast of the Eyre Peninsula and the Yorke Peninsula, for the long drives across plains filled with wheat, for the dramatic peaks of the Flinders Ranges and for the surreal landscape of Coober Pedy.</para>
<para>I must say that one of the delights of my job as a senator for South Australia has been to tour about and meet the people of Grey. There are some great characters there, whether in the fishing industry in Port Lincoln or amongst the opal fields of Coober Pedy. I've also come to know Rowan Ramsey, the local member for Grey. He has been a member there for a long time now. He's from Kimba, with a property not far from the nuclear waste repository that the federal government has imposed on the local community through a sham consultative process. Mr Ramsey was elected in 2007. He's held the seat for 14 years now. Once a Labor stronghold, Grey has been regarded as a safe Liberal seat since Barry Wakelin won it in 1993, 28 years ago. Grey has been a Liberal fiefdom for quite a while now.</para>
<para>The current incumbent in Grey spoke in the House of Representatives on 28 October, waxing lyrical about how well the people of Grey are doing. He spoke at length about roads—without question a significant issue in many parts of the electorate. He spoke about the sealing of the Strzelecki Track that stretches from Lyndhurst and goes through to Innamincka and on through to the Queensland border. The member went on to enthuse about the money that is been provided by the federal and state governments to support that and other road infrastructure developments across Grey, including the Joy Baluch Bridge in Port Augusta. Mr Ramsey was able to refer to hundreds of millions of dollars of road funding that will be spent in Grey. He declared:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's been a great time for the electorate of Grey. It's been a good time to be the member. Obviously, these are good announcements to make back in one's electorate, but I think it is so important to see this rebuilding of the roads.</para></quote>
<para>I think roadworks are great. Having driven far and wide across the electorate, I know the value of better roads and the value they provide for the graziers, the farmers, the miners, the people of the remote APY Lands—indeed everyone across the expanse of the electorate. I was jarred, however, by the self-congratulatory tone of the member for Grey's speech. I did wonder about his essentially one dimensional view. Roads are important, but I couldn't help but recall the many conversations I've had with the people across Grey who, while thankful for new bitumen, have bemoaned the great disadvantages they face in so many things in terms of limited economic opportunities; drug-related issues; youth unemployment; limited access to key health, mental health and aged care services. I've heard concerns about the future of Whyalla, the lack of strategic planning for the future development of the Eyre Peninsula, the tendency for decision-makers in Adelaide and Canberra to make ad hoc decisions with little regard for circumstances on the ground, the shambles concerning Coober Pedy's power supply and the impending shambles in relation to their water supply, and the botched decision-making of the South Australian government for a desalination plant at Port Lincoln. These are just recent examples.</para>
<para>No doubt the member for Grey would say that this is all anecdotal, that things are going tremendously well. As he said in his recent speech:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's been a great time for the electorate of Grey. It's been a good time to be the member.</para></quote>
<para>However, when one looks at the bigger picture all is not well—far from it. Throughout the entirety of the Liberal's hold on Grey the electorate has remained the most socially disadvantaged region of South Australia and, indeed, one of the most disadvantaged regions of Australia as a whole. Plenty of money has been spent on bitumen, but in the absence of real strategic vision for Grey and the will of the federal and state governments to make major investments required to remedy the region's entrenched disadvantage things will not change much for many people.</para>
<para>In this regard I would recommend that all senators take a look at the latest <inline font-style="italic">Dropping off the edge</inline> report. It's a hugely valuable study of social disadvantage across Australia produced by leading social researchers at the University of Canberra for Jesuit Social Services. It's a very comprehensive study looking at a host of indicators from income levels and employment to housing and rental stress, from environmental factors to educational levels, incidence of domestic violence and access to social and health services. It's a study that has been undertaken repeatedly since 2007.</para>
<para>Senators would do well to look closely at the patterns in their own respective states. In the case of South Australia the latest report shows serious disadvantage across the state, with the most of the disadvantage in the seat of Grey. In the study's map Grey is coloured red, indicating the highest level of disadvantage across almost all of the indicators. This entrenched disadvantage, whether expressed in low incomes, family stress, higher rates of imprisonment, domestic violence or poor health outcomes, is persistent. Most of those rated as highly disadvantaged in 2021 were similarly disadvantaged in 2015 and, indeed, in studies further back.</para>
<para>In highlighting the findings of this report, I don't want to suggest that life in Grey, and especially on the Eyre Peninsula, is all bleak, but it's a useful correction to the triumphant media releases from the local member trumpeting the latest federal grants for laydowns and bitumen. Grey is an electorate with much economic promise but also with much deeply entrenched social disadvantage that hasn't changed greatly through the long Liberal hold on the seat. Of course, part of the story of the Grey electorate is that it is on the geographical margins of South Australia but also on the list of so-called safe Liberal seats. It has been on the political margins of policymaking in both Adelaide and Canberra. Grey has been taken for granted.</para>
<para>In the months to come, as the federal election approaches, I have no doubt that the member for Grey will be putting out more press releases about road funding and this or that federal grant, but it's far from clear that Grey receives any more funding than would normally be the case for a remote or regional electorate, and it's certainly less than what Grey would receive if it were one of the colour-coded marginal electorates on the Prime Minister's political spreadsheets.</para>
<para>What we really need to see is a strategic, economic and social vision for the entire electorate, one that is backed by the will and investment needed to tackle the entrenched disadvantage across northern and western South Australia. That's what ought to be on the table for the seat of Grey at the next federal election. We'll have to see whether political circumstances are conducive to that, but if he's left to his own devices and there's no effective challenge from the Labor Party, I can't see the current member for Grey delivering that.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 21:12</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>