
<hansard noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd" version="2.2">
  <session.header>
    <date>2021-06-17</date>
    <parliament.no>46</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>6</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>0</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
    <business.start>
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        <p class="HPS-SODJobDate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;" />
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Thursday, 17 June 2021</a>
          </span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Scott Ryan)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
        <p class="HPS-Line" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
        </p>
      </body>
    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3105</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>3105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3105</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>3105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator. There being none, we will move on.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3105</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (More Flexible Superannuation) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>3105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="r6538" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (More Flexible Superannuation) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The debate was closed last night on the Treasury Laws Amendment (More Flexible Superannuation) Bill 2020, the Treasury Laws Amendment (Self Managed Superannuation Funds) Bill 2020 and the Treasury Laws Amendment (Your Future, Your Super) Bill 2021. We will move to the second reading vote on the Treasury Laws Amendment (More Flexible Superannuation) Bill 2020 only. The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to ask a couple of questions of the Minister for Superannuation, Financial Services and the Digital Economy about this. But, before we get there, it is worth reflecting on where we are in the process of this debate. Yesterday, without notice, the government moved to crunch debate on three very important bills—three bills that relate to a superannuation system worth $3 trillion; three bills that go to the financial interests of every working Australian; and three bills that, in combination, have the potential to disadvantage three million Australians by as much as $240,000 at retirement, a consequence of shoddy drafting, shoddy policy work and an ideological obsession with supporting their mates in the financial services sector at the expense of the evidence. I think it is a pretty pathetic indictment of this government that a system as important as Australians' superannuation system is the subject of endless petty partisanship.</para>
<para>For eight years, every bill on superannuation that has been brought before this parliament has been marred by a fixation with an ideological war, at the expense of the evidence. Nothing this government ever does in relation to superannuation is in the national interest. Nothing this government ever does in relation to superannuation relates in any way to the interests of working people. It is just one endless petty culture war after the other. It is a fixation driven by people on the other side who cannot bear the idea that industry super funds even exist, that this system, which is the envy of people all over the world, exists and works, and that this system allows businesses and workers and their representatives to direct their own financial interests, make investments and make some contribution to the structure of business and of capital investment in this country. This system, which works so well, has delivered for so many people and has lifted so many people into a dignified retirement, is the thing they can't bear. And why not? It is because the idea that ordinary people might have a say or might have a seat at the big table is anathema to these people. These people think that that right ought to be preserved for the merchant bankers—the business people in the really nice suits. It's not for the working types, not for people who do an ordinary job, nor for the people who get up early, go to work and do hard labour. It's not for them and their representatives; it's just for people like those on the other side.</para>
<para>I had actually thought it might come to an end when Ms O'Dwyer left the portfolio. I had thought that perhaps things might get better. But the performance yesterday and what I expect to happen today don't suggest that anything has changed at all under this minister, because Minister Hume is stubbornly persisting with a program of legislation that everyone has told her is flawed. When you've got Innes Willox—not a notorious socialist—from a key employer group, out begging the government to put aside ideology and look at the evidence, it should be a signal to you, Minister, that you have a problem. When you've got Innes Willox saying that people like Andrew Bragg, who likes to chat a lot on this topic, might need to put aside the eight years of hostility to superannuation that he built up during his time at the Financial Services Council, it might be an indication that the government has a problem, because your credibility on super is shot.</para>
<para>Every time a superannuation bill comes before this chamber, the one thing that we can be absolutely certain of is that the interests of ordinary people won't be in play. There'll be a weird set of interests from the Liberal Party. There'll be a weird set of internal stakeholders who've got some nutty conspiracy theory about how industry superannuation works. There'll be Andrew Bragg with an entirely misconceived idea about how industry super's investments work. There'll be the Financial Services Council, who've got a particular set of views that you're always ready to listen to. But there'll never be an examination of the evidence. There'll never be an engagement with the findings of Commissioner Hayne, who was very clear about which parts of the superannuation system required particular and additional attention and which parts were working okay. There won't be an engagement today with the evidence from the Productivity Commission that there is a whole section of the superannuation industry that will be left unregulated by this bill and that is letting workers down. None of that is to be engaged with, if we are to take at her word the contribution the minister made last night.</para>
<para>The thing is we don't know what we're really dealing with today, because a deal has been done. Last night Senator Hanson, Senator Roberts and Senator Griff gave their vote to the government to crunch all this through, to make sure that the terms of the debate today would be very narrow, that the time for the debate would be very narrow, that senators in many instances would be in a position where they were voting on amendments that they had only just seen and where the time allocated for discussion was very, very limited indeed. Why is this government so allergic to scrutiny, Minister? That might be something that you address in your first contribution.</para>
<para>The final thing I want to come to is the amendments that are before us to the bill that we are now dealing with. Senator Hanson has circulated three amendments. One of them goes to improving tax concessions for a small number of very wealthy people. Curiously enough, the age at which this measure kicks in is 67. Senator Hanson was willing to give the government the support to bring all this on last night, and it happens, if we're to believe Wikipedia, that Senator Hanson herself has only recently turned 67. What a coincidence. The question I have for you, Minister, is: will you be supporting her amendment? Is this the deal that's been done? We know a deal's been done, but we don't know its terms, because you haven't been willing to be upfront about that. So I'm inviting you now to tell us the terms of this deal and, in particular, to tell us what the government's voting position will be on each of the amendments that have been circulated on this bill in this chamber in the name of Senator Hanson.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McAllister, for that contribution. There are a number of amendments that are going to be put forward today from right across the chamber on all three bills. The government has a different position on each one, as you would expect. On the three amendments that are coming from Senator Hanson today, there are two that the government will be supporting and there is one that the government will not be supporting.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I invite the minister to be transparent about which of the amendments she intends to support.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be supporting the amendment on sheet 1005, it will be opposing the amendment on sheet 8983, and it will be supporting the amendment on sheet 8997.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I've asked you to lay out the terms of the deal that you've made with the crossbench. Will you do that now?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, as you'd know, the government makes negotiations with the crossbench. All negotiations are done in good faith, and that will continue to be the case.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, thank you for that. It's a very obtuse answer to my question. We can assume that you've secured the support of three senators for crunching your legislation through. What are the terms on which you have secured their support? What have you offered them, what can the Australian people expect, and what do senators need to know before they make their position clear on this bill?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, as you'd understand, this legislation has merit in its own right. When we speak to members of the crossbench—and, indeed, members across the chamber—we do so in good faith. We listen to what their concerns with the bill are, and we potentially support or reject amendments as appropriate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you've indicated support for sheet 1005. What is the effect of that amendment?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This amendment to the Treasury Laws Amendment (More Flexible Superannuation) Bill 2020 would remove the excess concessional contributions charge, which is known as the ECC charge, for people who exceed their concessional contributions cap. The ECC charge is just over three per cent—3.01 per cent is currently applied to the tax liability on excess contributions to super that are in breach of the concessional contributions cap. Removing the ECC charge to excess super contributions will help simplify the superannuation system and also cut red tape. It's imposed on people even when they breach their cap through no choice of their own, such as in situations where their employer pays more than the 9.5 per cent superannuation guarantee rate. Twenty-six per cent of employees are currently on agreements where their employer pays in excess of 9.5 per cent. The proposed amendment would remove the ECC charge but leave intact the existing integrity arrangements which ensure that any excess contributions continue to be taxed appropriately at an individual's marginal tax rate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, is it correct that this amendment will deliver a benefit to senators?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This amendment will deliver a benefit to anybody who is paid in excess of the superannuation guarantee rate of 9.5 per cent, particularly for those whose employer pays more super than that rate without any choice of their own.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, it's a tough gig, isn't it, when your employer pays your super, without any choice of your own, in excess of the minimum rate! It sounds tough! Is that the situation Senator Hanson finds herself in?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm afraid you're asking the wrong senator for that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Are you not aware of the general terms on which senators are employed, Minister Hume?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's entirely irrelevant to this piece of legislation, Senator McAllister. We know that, when we speak to crossbenchers and they tell us their concerns with a particular piece of legislation, we would always negotiate in good faith.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So this has been the subject of negotiation between yourself and Senator Hanson? It is a change which delivers a benefit to high-income people who get paid more than the standard superannuation rate. That sounds exactly like the situation of most senators. Why is it that Senator Hanson can come in here—she's not even here, actually. She can't be bothered to come and defend her own amendments. You're here carrying the can for her, Minister. But you've agreed to this. Why is it that you think that approving an amendment that directly benefits Senator Hanson is appropriate?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will support changes that help simplify the superannuation system and reduce red tape.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I understand that the government intends to support this change. I'm inviting you to tell the people of Australia why people who go over the cap, which is quite generous at $27,000, a little bit over, need a tax cut. Because, honestly, if I think about the people that I know in my community, there aren't many tipping more than 27,000 bucks into their super every year. That is a very elite group of people. How many Australians are going to benefit from this, Minister? Why is it that the remainder of Australians, who don't benefit from this, should bear the costs of the change that you're proposing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Many of those who breach this cap do so through absolutely no choice of their own. Removing the excess contributions charge simply removes red tape and simplifies the superannuation system.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What's the fiscal impact over the forwards of voting for this amendment?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's an amendment that's been put forward by the crossbench. It's not an amendment that's been put forward by the government, so the fiscal impact has not been analysed.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, your advice just now is that you are in here committing the government to vote for an amendment that will benefit a very small group of Australians and that will cost the budget, and you've got absolutely no idea by how much?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>An update will be provided on the costings at the next budget update.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I concede, Minister, that that gives you a generous period of time to get around to this. But is this the new standard that we're going to see for governance? You come in here, you do a deal with Senator Hanson to ram your bills through, and the price of that is an amendment of uncertain cost that you're willing to tick off on despite the fact you've got absolutely no idea about the consequence for the budget? This is the problem with the way you are dealing with superannuation. It is a toy. It is a thing for endless political games. It is the subject of deals which you're very reluctant to discuss, but you can't even do the basics.</para>
<para>What government would come in here and ask senators to support a proposition where you've got absolutely no idea of the fiscal impact? The superannuation system does actually have a pretty substantial impact on the budget. You won't see this side of politics wandering out there making propositions about super without thinking that question through. It astonishes me that you would come in here and give government support for something that was dreamt up by Senator Hanson, in her own interest, without even bothering to cost it. Will this be the standard you'll be setting for all of the other amendments that are before us today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, I think I can safely say that we haven't costed your amendments either. I'd be interested to know if you have costed your amendments. That said, as I said before, we negotiate with the crossbench in good faith at all steps of the way to make the best legislation possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hume, you haven't bothered on the fiscals, but I ask you: how much will a senator here on a backbencher's salary personally benefit from the change you are proposing to endorse by supporting the amendments on sheet 1005?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I haven't costed these amendments and I haven't costed your amendments, but, if you have costed your amendments, I'd be interested to know what they are going to cost the budget as well.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So you don't know. Senator Hanson has come in here, popped something in and proposed it to you. It removes a charge that affects her personally—it affects a lot of people here personally actually—and you haven't bothered to find out what the individual benefit is. You weren't even curious when Senator Hanson put this proposal to you.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hume interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My question to you, Minister, was: were you not even curious about the impact of what was being put to you on high-income earners in this chamber?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McAllister, in your own words, this affects a very small number of people. If we can make legislation better, we will certainly always consider how to do so.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It certainly does affect a very small number of people and a lot of people in this chamber. Do you think this is what the Australian public expect from us? Do you think they expect us to come in here and spend time debating amendments that, in your words, affect a very small number of people and provide a benefit to a very small number of people, most of whom earn very generous incomes? Do you think they expect you to just tick that off without looking at the impact of the cost on the budget or without thinking through the kind of benefit that's going to be offered to the people sitting around you?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think the Australian people expect a superannuation system that serves them rather than the superannuation funds that administer it. The government uses its quite considerable constitutional powers to compel Australians to sequester nearly $1 in $10 of everything they earn potentially for up to 40 years, and yet they do so in a highly inefficient system. Everything that the government has done in its entire time in this parliament has been to improve the efficiency of the system through reducing the number of duplicate accounts out there—having duplicate accounts means there are two sets of fees and two sets of insurances—ensuring insurances are appropriately applied and can be claimed on; ensuring that there is competitive tension that drives fees down; and ensuring that the long tail of underperforming superannuation funds that people languish in for years and years is eliminated from this system. Indeed, the bills that are before us now are about making superannuation more flexible, specifically for older Australians who haven't had the benefit of compulsory superannuation throughout their working lives. We will continue unapologetically to do so.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to pick up on some of the questions Senator McAllister has asked. Minister, you've said that you do not know what the cost to taxpayers will be of agreeing to the crossbench amendments. Are we talking millions of dollars, billions of dollars or tens of billions of dollars? Do you have any idea how much you're about to sign taxpayers up to as part of your deal with the crossbench?</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: Senator Watt, you need to be speaking from your spot.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, as is the usual practice when an amendment passes on a piece of government legislation, the cost effect of that amendment will be published in the next budget update, which in this case will be MYEFO.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Does it not concern you, Minister, that you are potentially signing taxpayers up to many billions of dollars as a result of supporting these crossbenchers, because you don't know what the cost is? You say we should wait for the budget update, but today's the day when you're about to put people on the hook. If we're about to see the parliament deliver tens of billions of dollars of taxpayers' funds to a very small number of people, I would have thought we were entitled to know that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will always make a decision on amendments based on their individual merits. Indeed, in regard to the cost of those amendments, it would be very helpful to government if those who were proposing amendments would do their own costings. For instance, I understand that there is an ALP amendment to this legislation that's before us now. Again, I don't know what the cost effect of that would be. Should the government have chosen to support that amendment, again, the costs would be outlined in MYEFO, as is usual practice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Isn't the difference, though, Minister, that, as is my understanding, the government is not supporting any of the Labor amendments—or is supporting a very small number of them at best—but it's the government that is choosing to back in crossbench amendments? So isn't it a little bit more relevant to have some idea of the cost of amendments that are going to pass with the government's support than of any other amendments that anyone might be moving that are going to go down? That's the issue.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government makes decisions about whether to support or not support amendments that are made by the crossbench or, indeed, the opposition very carefully and considers the effects on the underlying legislation. The opposition have put forward their many amendments to these three bills today. If they have provided any costings themselves attached to those amendments, then the government might take them more seriously.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will just return to amendment No. 8983, which is, as I understand it, the amendment Senator Hanson has moved to give herself a nice little pay rise. When was that amendment presented or first discussed with the government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry, I can't answer that, Senator Watt. What I can say is that the government is not supporting it, so the question is irrelevant.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to indicate that the ALP has circulated an amendment on sheet 1025. We won't be proceeding with that amendment this morning.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question is that the bill be reported.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:06]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is worth explaining to the chamber, is it not, what just happened? What just happened was that the government voted against reporting their own bill out of the committee stage—the bill they drafted. And why did they do that? It's very unusual. I don't think I have ever seen the government vote against their own bill. As far as I can tell—and I will be interested to see how this unfolds—this was to give Senator Hanson, who was running late and who's now appeared in the chamber, the chance to move her amendments, which benefit her. This is exactly about the government using all of their numbers to protect the financial interests of Senator Hanson. What a disgrace! What an embarrassing abuse of chamber process—to prevent your own bill from exiting committee to help one person on the crossbench move amendments designed to financially benefit her. What a disgrace!</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to follow on from Senator McAllister's contribution, it is the submission of the Australian Greens that Senator McAllister is entirely accurate in what she has just put forward as a rationale for what has just happened, and we collectively join with Senator McAllister and the Labor Party in expressing our utter astonishment that the government would actually vote against the progression of its own legislation through this Senate. I don't know whether this has ever happened before and I'd be very interested to find out. It's certainly not something that I've witnessed either in the Senate or in my many, many years in the Tasmanian parliament. The government has actually voted against the progress of its own bill in order to allow Senator Hanson to move her amendments.</para>
<para>I want to be very clear: when Senator McAllister was putting to the chamber her theory about what just happened, Senator Hanson agreed with it and said that Senator McAllister was quite right in the assertions that she was making. So there it is: this is simply the result of a dirty deal done between the government and One Nation, and it has resulted in the most bizarre situation where the government has, astoundingly, decided that it should vote against the progress of its own legislation through this place.</para>
<para>We will now wait and see how this shakes out and how the government votes on Senator Hanson's amendments. I want to be clear, though: these are not crossbench amendments; these are One Nation amendments. They will be not be supported by the Australian Greens. Again, this is <inline font-style="italic">Alice in Wonderland</inline> stuff from the government here, which just, potentially, historically voted against the passage of its own legislation through this Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make it very, very clear that these accusations—and that's what they are—are completely false. There is no-one in this parliament more honest than Senator Hanson. I've worked with her. She's completely honest, and I reject those imputations. They're vile and they're wrong.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there anybody seeking the call?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hume</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I might respond to Senator Roberts, if I may.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Minister, Senator Hanson did jump to her feet first, so I will give Senator Hanson the opportunity unless she wants to cede to you, the minister.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Temporary Chair Sterle, for doing this. I do admit that what happened was because of me; it wasn't the government holding up the legislation. I admit when I'm wrong, but I will tell the truth, unlike a lot of other people in this chamber. The whole fact is that it came time to actually move the amendments, and I ran to get to the chamber in time to actually move the amendments. So that is the truth. It's got nothing to do with the government whatsoever.</para>
<para>I do have a concern with one of my proposed amendments. I've just discovered it has not been printed to my wishes correctly. Therefore I am considering what to do with this. Unless I have confirmation from the government that it can be changed, I am of the opinion that I don't think it can be changed. That was the amendment on sheet 8983 revised 2. The amendment says that if you're aged 67 years or over you get $5,000 to put into your superannuation account. That was basically for all Australians, because 67 years of age is the retirement age. We are struggling to keep people in the workforce, so it is basically an incentive for all Australians. It doesn't matter who you are or what work you do—whether you're a truck driver, whether you're someone who works in a retail business or whether you're someone who works in the mines—if you're 67 years of age, it's to have an incentive to put an extra $5,000 into your super.</para>
<para>What we find now is that a lot of people are actually drawing out their super at retirement age, paying off their homes, going for holidays, spending the money and ending up on the pension. It was an incentive to keep people in the workforce regardless of who they are—for all Australians, those battlers, everyone. But, as I see now, it was supposed to be only $5,000 a year, not increased by $5,000 every year. That was not what I wanted to see written here. Therefore I'm in a bit of a dilemma.</para>
<para>I still believe that Australians over the age of 67, those older Australians, should be able to put the money into their accounts and stay in the workforce, which we need. Just because you're 67 and you're of retirement age—I'm proud to say I am 67 years of age. I turned 67 yesterday. If Senator Murray Watt thinks that I'm staying here for an extra six years for $30,000, he doesn't know me. I don't need to be in this place with a lot of pusillanimous politicians for the next six years for an extra $30,000. It's about the battlers. It's for people out there to be able to stay in the workforce from 67 years of age, and to give them some incentive for why they should. They're worth their weight in gold. Most of my employees in my office are over the age of 67. I'm proud to say that. The people who worked in my fish and chips shop were also of the older age group, and they are worth their weight in gold.</para>
<para>This is about the battlers. Those people were given the opportunity to take their money out of superannuation to use in the time of COVID. This is now going to give them the opportunity to put that money back in without any penalties up until 2030. Give those people who have used the money the opportunity to put it back into their superannuation funds so they will have that money when they come to retirement age. Was that Labor's policy? No. They're not worrying about those battlers. The battlers, those hardworking Australians, utilised taking money out of their superannuation accounts thanks to the government giving them that opportunity. But now that they're back in work it's about allowing them the opportunity to put that money back into their accounts. I'd like to see how Labor's going to vote on that one, because they've been knocking back the opportunity for all the battlers to put money back into their accounts.</para>
<para>The next point is about the concessional contribution of money into your superannuation. If you are over the $26,000 or $27,000 that you put into your super at the moment from your employer—anything over that and you're paying the full tax rate on that money. And then you have the opportunity to pull it out. But, again, you are taxed at three per cent for drawing your money out. You're drawing out money that you paid full tax on and they want to hit you again for another three per cent. It's about getting rid of that three per cent, considering you've already paid your tax on it.</para>
<para>If you think that I'm moving this is because of me, and for $30,000—come on, mate, you just don't know me. I've probably paid more tax in this country than you ever have. I've done more work for the people of Queensland, and I have actually achieved more for Queensland in the past five years than some of the Queensland senators in this parliament. I am fed up with the lies, the misrepresentation and the people who put a spin on so many issues here. Talking about the casualisation of those in the mines: it was One Nation that actually got the government to get rid of casualisation, allowing those Australians to actually turn around and ask for full-time employment after 12 months of working in a job. That was One Nation. That was me. That was not Labor. That was not Labor and it definitely wasn't Murray Watt pushing for that.</para>
<para>It's about looking after those people and giving them the opportunity. My focus in this parliament has been a fair go for all Australians. It's up to you how you want to vote for this. If you want to play your politics in this place—I'm sick and tired of it and so are the Australian people. Stop damn well twisting and saying anything.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Watt interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, it's election time? You know what, Senator Watt? I'm actually going to put that video up where you praised me for my work ethic and the work I've put into Queensland. You praised me on the floor of parliament. It suits you when politics is in the air. That's right: we're up for election. Murray Watt's up against Pauline Hanson. You won't get re-elected on your abilities at all. You will get re-elected purely based on the fact that you're top of the ticket. Senator Chisholm might do a far better job than you.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will remind senators to put their comments through the chair.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to begin by wishing Senator Hanson a happy birthday. I didn't actually realise it was your birthday yesterday, Senator Hanson. That even further explains your actions in moving this amendment. When I spoke on this last night I realised that you were 67 and that that was the reason you were trying to move a tax benefit for people who are 67 or older. What I didn't realise was that you were moving the amendment to benefit 67-year-olds on the day you turned 67. That is ingenious! How long did you spend working out how you could manipulate the system to give yourself a pay rise on your birthday? I've heard of a lot of people out there who like to buy themselves a birthday present on their birthday because they're not sure what they're going to get. I've never heard of a politician coming down to Canberra to move an amendment to use taxpayers' money to give themselves a birthday present on their birthday, but that's what Senator Hanson did just yesterday, on her birthday. That is extraordinary!</para>
<para>Senator Hanson, you said that you ran down into the chamber. I can understand why you ran down into the chamber, because you were so desperate to move this amendment to give yourself a birthday present—not only a $30,000 pay rise but a $30,000 birthday present at taxpayers' expense. If I were going to do that, I would be running down to the chamber as well. But do you know what's different about you and me? I don't run down to the chamber to give myself a pay rise. I didn't get elected to Canberra to give myself a pay rise. I got elected to actually look after battlers, not bullshit to them like you do, constantly.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Watt! Order, order, order. This may be strange coming from me—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thanks, Senator Watt, but I would encourage you to put your comments through the chair.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Temporary Chairman, unlike Senator Hanson, you and I did not get ourselves elected to Canberra to give ourselves a pay rise. We don't run around our respective states misleading people and pretending that we care about them only to get ourselves elected and give ourselves a pay rise, like Senator Hanson has done. The truth about what we've just seen this morning is that Senator Hanson has been caught out. Senator Hanson has been exposed as the fraud that she always has been, in claiming to support battlers but, in fact, only trying to help herself. She has been shamed into coming down into this chamber—running down into this chamber, by her own admission—to try to fiddle with this amendment that she put together yesterday, because she's been caught out trying to use taxpayers' money to give herself this pay rise.</para>
<para>Those of us who are from Queensland and have been watching Senator Hanson in action have been used to her having her snout in the trough for a very long time. She has had her snout in the public trough for over 20 years. Usually it's to try to access electoral funds that are meant to go to her party to use instead for her own personal benefit. What's different this time—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Watt—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>is that she's got her snout in the trough to benefit herself personally.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Watt. Thank you. Senator Hanson.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I take offence at that. I rise on the point of order that he's referring to electoral funding, which has got nothing to do with this debate. On top of that, it's a bloody lie, and I'm not going to sit here and put up with this rubbish that comes out of his mouth.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Hanson. Look, Senators these—sorry, Senator Roberts, just let me finish on the point of order. I think, Senators, that we can all get very passionate in this place, and none more than me at times. I would encourage you, Senator Watt, to reflect on your comments there. There are plenty of opportunities to get your point across. Senator Watt, I probably would ask you just to contemplate a retraction. I am asking that. It's entirely your call. Senator McAllister?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order on the same kind of question: I wonder if you might reflect on Senator Hanson's language and the assertions she made, in fruity terms, about Senator Watt's contribution. I think she may also considering withdrawing some of her remarks.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thank you, Senator McAllister. It is great to have passionate debate, but we've had a number of occasions now this morning where I would ask senators please to reflect. Let's—sorry, Senator Roberts, just let me finish please. I will come to you. I would ask both senators if they would have the ability to contemplate a retraction of accusations across the chamber. I can't control your doing that, but I'm asking. Senator Watt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw anything that was offensive, Chair.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Thank you, Senator Watt. Senator Hanson, I would ask the same question of your good self too.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I have nothing to withdraw with regard to his performance and what he does for Queensland. I have not gone into a personal matter, as he did when referring to my electoral funding, so, therefore, I will not withdraw what I have said.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Hanson, there was some colourful language that I pulled up Senator Watt on, and I ask that you withdraw the colourful language, please. It was something along the lines of 'bullshit'—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I never said that.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: or 'bloody'. Sorry, the 'BS', which was from the opposition side, was withdrawn.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's the Irish coming out of me—saying 'bloody'. I withdraw it if it was offensive to anyone.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: There are truck drivers present in the chamber that may take offence to some of the language! I'm not one of them. Senator Roberts.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Roberts</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And coalminers. But we wouldn't take offence to it either! We just witnessed from Senator Watt a statement that was deliberately misrepresenting what Senator Hanson said immediately prior. That is not acceptable behaviour in this Senate, and it's done repeatedly. Misrepresentations, let's be clear, are an attempt to control, and always beneath control there is fear.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: As I see it, as I sit here in the chamber, Senator Watt did retract whatever was offensive. I think it's now time that we get back on track. We're here to do a little bit of work. Senator Watt, you have the call.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just to wrap up my contribution, for those who haven't been following exactly what is being proposed in the amendment that Senator Hanson tabled yesterday on her birthday, the day she turned 67, the purpose of that amendment is to give a very generous tax concession to high-income earners who are aged 67 or older. It won't apply to people earning $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 or $60,000 a year, because—Senator Hanson might not realise this—people earning low to middle incomes don't generally have so much money set aside that they can make extra voluntary superannuation contributions. But those of us who are fortunate enough to be working here or in other high-income occupations do have that opportunity. So the amendment that Senator Hanson has moved will only benefit high-income earners, like Senator Hanson, who turned—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Sorry, Senator Watt, but Senator Hanson is on her feet. No amendments have been moved yet. Senator Hanson.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Point of order: he said I have moved the amendment. I have not moved the amendment.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Yes, Senator Hanson, I picked that up. Senator Watt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The amendment that Senator Hanson circulated yesterday had one objective, and that was to give a generous tax concession—in other words, in ordinary people's language, a pay rise—to high-income earners like Senator Hanson who are 67 or older. As I say, Senator Hanson didn't just circulate this amendment on any day; she circulated it on the day she turned 67, the day she qualified for this extremely generous pay rise.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is misrepresentation. Senator Watt said I circulated this on my birthday. My birthday was last month. This was not circulated on my birthday, so it's basically misrepresentation; he told a lie.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can help. Sorry, Senator Hanson, but the Senate did hear you say yesterday it was your birthday.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday was not my birthday, so you are wrong. I'm sure you've realised that. I said my birthday was last month.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Hanson, thank you for clarifying that. We can now correct the record. I would urge your office to pull up the record. There are no points of order. Let's get back on track. Senator Watt.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was wondering whether it was within the standing orders to take a point of order to correct when your birthday is, but we're used to seeing strange things here in the Senate.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Watt, if you could, continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, the purpose of this amendment that Senator Hanson circulated yesterday, which we now learn was not her birthday, even though she told us 10 minutes ago it was her birthday—certainly she circulated this amendment after she had turned 67—is to provide a very generous tax concession to high-income earners who are 67 or over. Of course, Senator Hanson, unlike most people in this chamber, just happens to tick each box: high-income earner and 67. What a nice wicket!</para>
<para>There is some dispute about the value of this pay rise that Senator Hanson is seeking to grant herself. We have calculated that, over the course of a six-year Senate term, it amounts to $30,000, but there are other calculations that have been performed this morning which suggest that, in fact, it could be up to the value of $150,000. But let's be generous to Senator Hanson and assume she's only trying to give herself a $30,000 pay rise. What sort of politician, what sort of political representative, sets out, when they're thinking about what they want to achieve in Canberra, that their top priority is to give themselves a pay rise? What sort of person does that? What sort of person goes around to Queenslanders, misleading struggling battlers and trying to tell them that they're on their side, when, in fact, what they do is they secretly come down to Canberra and circulate amendments under the cover of darkness which are intended to give them at least a $30,000 pay rise? I'll tell you what kind of politician does that: Senator Hanson does that, and she has form.</para>
<para>Whether you look back over her recent political career or her longer-term political career, one consistent thing we have seen from Senator Hanson is a laser-like focus on targeting public funds to enrich herself. She's done it before with electoral funds. She's doing it now with taxpayers' funds on superannuation.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I want Senator Watt to withdraw that comment, that I've taken money from electoral funds.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll let the record stand for itself on that matter, Chair. In conclusion—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Watt, just bear in mind section 193 of the standing orders.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Chair. I think what we saw yesterday from Senator Hanson will go down in history as one of the biggest attempted rorts and one of the biggest attempted swindles of the public purse that Australia has ever seen from a federal politician. It will go down in history as 'Pauline's Payday'. That's what yesterday was. That was about Senator Pauline Hanson coming to Canberra to give herself a nice, sweet, fat pay rise, which all of those battlers back in Queensland are going to be paying more tax to fund. That's what happened yesterday. And I can understand why Senator Hanson is now desperately running to the chamber to try to tidy up this mess; it's because she's been caught out.</para>
<para>I've said many times before that Senator Hanson should be ashamed of her behaviour. I've never felt it more strongly than I feel it today, because not only is she trying to enrich herself personally but she's doing it at the expense of the very battlers whom she was elected to this parliament to represent. It is a shameful day, even for Senator Hanson. The government is complicit. We know there's been a dodgy deal done between the government and One Nation to get this legislation through, so the government's hands are every bit as dirty as Senator Hanson's. Already, people in Queensland know very well what you've been up to here, Senator Hanson. They're only going to know more about it. You can laugh, if you think it's funny to rip off taxpayers' funds.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Senator Watt, through the chair.</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Chair, if Senator Hanson thinks it's funny and a laughing matter to be ripping off the public to give herself a pay rise, she's on her own, because I don't think it's funny. I think it's a very serious matter that Senator Hanson should be completely ashamed of, trying to rip off taxpayers in this manner.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Chair, as far as I'm aware, there is no question before the committee. The government voted to bring this bill back into the committee stage. There are no amendments being put. Under those circumstances, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the bill be reported.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to move amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8997, by leave, please.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, just a moment; Senator McAllister has asked that the bill be reported, so we're going to have to deal with that first.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question is that the bill be reported.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:44]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move One Nation amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8997 and amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 1005 revised 2 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 8997</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (at the end of the table), add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 3 (after line 9), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3—Re ‑contribution of COVID ‑19 early release superannuation amounts</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Subsection 290 ‑150(2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "290‑168", insert ", 290‑169".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 After section 290 ‑168</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">290 ‑169 Contribution must not be a COVID ‑19 re ‑contribution</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">You cannot deduct the contribution if it is a contribution that is covered under section 292‑103 (about COVID‑19 re‑contributions).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 After subparagraph 292 ‑90(2 )( c )( iiia)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iiib) a contribution covered by section 292‑103 (COVID‑19 re‑contributions);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 After section 292 ‑102</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">292 ‑103 COVID ‑19 re ‑contributions</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A contribution is covered by this section if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the contribution is made by you to a *complying superannuation plan in respect of you in a *financial year; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the contribution is made in the financial year beginning on 1 July 2021, or a later financial year ending on or before 30 June 2030; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) one or more amounts (the <inline font-style="italic">COVID</inline><inline font-style="italic">‑19 early release amounts</inline>) have been paid to you from a complying superannuation plan, in either or both of the financial years beginning on 1 July 2019 or 1 July 2020, because you satisfied:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) a condition of release specified in item 107A or 207AA of the table in Schedule 1 to the <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Regulations</inline><inline font-style="italic">1994</inline>; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) a condition of release specified in item 109AA of the table in Schedule 2 to the <inline font-style="italic">Retirement Savings Accounts Regulations</inline><inline font-style="italic">1997</inline>; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the amount of the contribution is not more than the total of your COVID‑19 early release amounts; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(e) if you made one or more previous contributions covered by this section—the sum of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the amount of the contribution; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the amounts of those previous contributions;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">is not more than the total of your COVID‑19 early release amounts; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(f) you choose, in accordance with subsection (2), to apply this section to the contribution.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) To make a choice for the purposes of paragraph (1) (f), you must:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) make the choice in the *approved form; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) give it to the *superannuation provider in relation to the *complying superannuation plan on or before the time when the contribution is made.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">_____</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1005 REVISED 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 2, column headed "Provisions"), omit "Schedule 1", substitute "Schedules 1 and 2".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Page 3 (after line 9), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2—Excess concessional contributions</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 1—Amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Income Tax Assessment Act 1997</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Section 26-74</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 Section 291-1 (note)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "about a charge you may be liable to pay, and".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 Section 291-15 (note 2)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the note.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Subsection 995-1(1) (definition of <inline font-style="italic">excess concessional contributions charge</inline> )</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the definition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Taxation Administration Act 1953</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 Subsection 8AAB(4) (table item 44Q)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the item.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6 Division 95 in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the Division.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">7 Section 97-1 in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "and any excess concessional contributions charge".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">8 Section 97-5 in Schedule 1 (heading)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "and charge".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9 Section 97-5(1) in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the subsection, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) If you have *excess concessional contributions for a *financial year, the Commissioner must make a written determination stating the amount of those excess concessional contributions.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">10 Subsection 250-10(2) in Schedule 1 (table item 37AD)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the item.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">11 Subsection 250-10(2) in Schedule 1 (table item 135Q)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the item.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">12 Subsection 280-100(4) in Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the subsection.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 2—Repeal</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation (Excess Concessional Contributions Charge) Act 2013</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">13 The whole of the Act</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Part 3—Application</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">14 Application</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments made by this Schedule apply in relation to excess concessional contributions for a financial year starting on or after 1 July 2021.</para></quote>
<para>On sheet 8997: with COVID last year, people were given the opportunity to draw out of their superannuation $10,000 in the first year and another $10,000 in the second year. These amendments will allow those Australians who have withdrawn their money the opportunity to put that money back into their account by 2030. This is a way of saving—for people to put their money back into their account with no penalties. I think it would be great for the Australian people to actually have the opportunity to put it in.</para>
<para>Labor were quite happy to stop this point in the last vote we had; they were quite happy for the bill not to proceed with my amendment. Therefore, I take it that Labor are totally opposed to people being able to put their money back into their account without any penalties over the next 10 years. They are going to vote against those people who had to pull money out due to not having work and finding it financially difficult. It is important to these people back in the workforce now, these Australians, these battlers out there, to get as many savings away into their superannuation as they possibly can.</para>
<para>The second sheet of amendments I put up here is to do with people who have put in amounts past their $25,000 concessional cap. They pay tax on it on the way in. Actually, if they pay over the $25,000 threshold, they are paying full tax on it. They are given the opportunity to pull that money out in a certain period of time after the end of the financial year, but they are penalised another three per cent. Remember that they have already paid their full tax on it, and you want to penalise them again by having them pay another three per cent on that money. This will get rid of that three per cent and they can draw out their money within a specified period of time. So I think it would help a lot of people if they want it to.</para>
<para>I think a lot of Australians would agree that they pay far too much tax in this country, especially personal tax plus also the GST. Those are the taxes we pay, so why tax people again on funds that they have already paid their full tax on? I hope that Labor will actually support the battling Australians on these amendments that I'm putting forward and give Australians the opportunity to put their money back into their accounts and save for their future retirement years.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will be supporting these amendments.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: There are two lots of amendments that need to be agreed to. I remind the chamber that we are dealing with sheet 8997 (1) and (2) and sheet 1005 (1) and (2). The question is that the amendments be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [10:55)<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill, as amended, agreed to.<br />Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3125</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill now be read a third time.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a third time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:04]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Self Managed Superannuation Funds) Bill 2020</title>
          <page.no>3126</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="s1269" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Self Managed Superannuation Funds) Bill 2020</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3126</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to the order adopted yesterday, the debate has concluded, so I'll put the question on the second reading. The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:08]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>35</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3127</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't intend to detain the chamber long on this question, but I rise to move the amendment circulated in my name on sheet 1237:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Page 2 (after line 12), after clause 3, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">4 Review of operation of amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Minister must cause a review to be conducted of the operation of the amendments made by this Act.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Without limiting subsection (1), the review must consider:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the conduct of financial advisers and trustees; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) self managed superannuation fund investment performance and governance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) The review must start as soon as practicable after the end of 12 months after this Act commences.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) The Minister must cause a written report of the review to be prepared within 6 months of the commencement of the review.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) The Minister must cause a copy of the report of the review to be tabled in each House of the Parliament within 15 sitting days of that House after the report is given to the Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) In this section, <inline font-style="italic">Minister</inline> means the Minister administering the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993.</para></quote>
<para>Labor doesn't support this bill. I won't go into a great deal of detail about why not. I would refer people to the evidence that was put before the Senate committee on this question. I rely, in brief, on the comment that was provided by Super Consumers Australia, people you might expect to rely upon to provide good advice about what is in fact in the interest of consumers. They said this:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we don't believe the <inline font-style="italic">Treasury Laws Amendment (Self Managed Superannuation Funds) Bill 2000</inline> … will make a meaningful contribution to delivering better member outcomes in an environment where barriers to accessing un-conflicted financial advice persist.</para></quote>
<para>That's at the heart of our concerns about this bill, because the risk is that the people who will benefit most from these arrangements are financial advisers giving shonky advice—the kind of advice we've seen again and again and again, the kind of advice exposed in the Hayne royal commission. There are inadequate protections for consumers, and this bill further exposes people to these risks. It's on that basis that I have moved this amendment, which simply does this: it seeks to have a review of the operation of this bill.</para>
<para>Frankly, if the government is as confident as it says it is about how terrific this bill is going to be, it won't object to performing a review. A review would require a consideration of the conduct of financial advisers and trustees and the performance and governance of self-managed superannuation funds. I don't know why the government wouldn't agree to that, and I encourage government senators to consider voting for a pretty sensible amendment that would cause a review of a new government policy within 12 months.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise very briefly to associate the Australian Greens with Senator McAllister's remarks and to indicate for the record that we will be supporting this amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McKim and Senator McAllister, for those contributions. This bill increases the maximum number of allowable members in a self-managed super fund and small APRA fund from four to six. It's not a complicated bill at all. The increase in the maximum number of allowable members intends to provide additional consumer choice and flexibility to manage retirement savings. That's especially so for large families.</para>
<para>The opposition amendment asks for a review to be conducted of the operation of this amendment, and the review must also consider the conduct of financial advisers and trustees and SMSF investment performance and governance. The government's position is to oppose this amendment. Firstly, the opposition's amendment to review whether self-managed super fund membership should be expanded after 12 months of passage of this legislation will create considerable uncertainty for those that want to take up the option of a five- or six-member self-managed super fund in the first 12 months of the amendment operating. Secondly, it's rather unfortunate and, indeed, disingenuous of the opposition to disparage the good work that financial advisers do and the contribution that they make to the financial wellbeing of thousands and thousands of Australians. In fact, the Morrison government has implemented a number of reforms that strengthen the financial advice sector, providing consumers with much better access to affordable and high-quality financial advice.</para>
<para>So far, the government have strengthened and simplified the ongoing fee arrangements framework to minimise the risk of a consumer being charged a fee for no service. We've amended the disclosure requirements to ensure that financial advisers disclose whether they are independent, which was recommendation 2.2 of the Hayne royal commission. The government have also committed to introduce legislation by 30 June this year that would establish a single disciplinary body for financial advisers. This is in response to Commissioner Hayne's finding that, while sanctions are available to ASIC to take against financial advisers, the lack of less serious sanctions means that ASIC generally only focuses on the most serious of incidents. And while the government has announced that AFCA will soon be wound up, its functions will certainly remain. Treasury will be responsible for standard setting and a code of ethics, and ASIC will be responsible for administering the exam.</para>
<para>The great work that AFCA has done to lift the education, training and ethical standards of financial advisers will continue. The government has, in fact, agreed to implement the Hayne royal commission's recommendation to review measures that have been implemented by the government, by regulators and by financial services entities to improve the quality of financial advice. I think we can safely say that we all know which side of politics supports members' rights to manage their own money—and it's certainly not the Labor Party. I remind the chamber that, at the last election, the Labor Party in fact proposed $57 billion worth of retiree tax, which was very anti self-managed super.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question is that amendment (1) on sheet 1237, as moved by Senator McAllister, be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:21]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M (teller)</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3130</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I haven't called a division, in the interests of time, but I ask that the opposition's vote on this matter be recorded. We voted in the negative.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>10000</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes—and ditto, Senator McKim?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Indeed, Deputy President: ditto from the Greens.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Your Future, Your Super) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3130</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6672" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Your Future, Your Super) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3130</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—In a similar vein, I would ask that our opposition to the second reading be recorded.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And Senator McKim?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Yes, as I confirmed in my second reading speech yesterday, our final position on this bill will be contingent on whether certain amendments are accepted. So we have allowed the bill through into the committee stage and we'll make a final decision on the third reading.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>3130</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move the government amendments on sheets PM122 and QJ145 together and table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments moved to this bill:</para>
<quote><para class="block">PM122—T reasury Laws Amendment (Your Future, Your Super) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 14), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 November 2021".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 15), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 November 2021".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 24, page 10 (line 26), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 November 2021".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, item 9, page 17 (lines 31 and 32), omit "are met for that class of Part 6A product", substitute "for that class of Part 6A product are met for the Part 6A product".</para></quote>
<para>We also oppose schedule 3 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 3, item 3, page 29 (lines 8 to 10), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">QJ145—T reasury Laws Amendment (Your Future, Your Super) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, item 20, page 32 (lines 17 and 18), omit subsection 220A(3).</para></quote>
<para>We also oppose schedule 3 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 10, page 30 (lines 17 to 19), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 14, page 31 (lines 7 to 9), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: Even though the minister has moved these together, they need to be split because they have different outcomes. I will put the question that amendments (1) to (4) on sheet PM122 be agreed to:</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: The question now is that amendment (5) on sheet PM122—that item (3) of schedule 3 stand as printed—be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: I'm now going to put amendments (1) and (2) on sheet QJ145. The question is that items 10 and 14 of schedule 3 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: I'm now going to put the last of those amendments moved by the minister by leave, and that is amendment (3) on sheet QJ145. The question is that the amendment be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendment (1):</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 6), omit the table item.</para></quote>
<para>I also oppose schedule 3 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, page 29 (line 1) to page 34 (line 17), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>I know that the government's amendments that have just passed have removed some of the offensive parts of schedule 3. These amendments seek to remove the entirety of schedule 3.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move amendments (1) to (7) on sheet 1269 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 14), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 15), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 24, page 10 (line 26), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 2, item 9, page 17 (after line 1), after paragraph 60B(a), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(aa) a choice product; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 2, item 9, page 18 (after line 9), after subsection 60D(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) Regulations made for the purposes of subsection (1) must specify requirements that ensure that administration fees and expenses are taken into account in assessing the performance of Part 6A products and in comparing and benchmarking performance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 2, item 9, page 26 (lines 18 and 19), omit ", to the extent that it relates to Part 6A products that are MySuper products,".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 2, item 10, page 27 (lines 3 to 9), omit subitem (1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Subject to subitem (2), the amendments made by this Schedule apply in relation to Part 6A products on and after 1 July 2023.</para></quote>
<para>These amendments seek to delay the stapling until 1 July 2022. They also seek to include choice products in the performance test, because they are currently not in the performance test. They include administrative fees in the performance test. They also delay the performance testing commencing until 1 July 2023.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The amendments to schedule 1 that delay the start date of the stapling reforms by 12 months to 1 July 2022 as put forward by Senator Patrick will be opposed by the government. The amendments to schedule 2 to increase the coverage of the performance test in the YourSuper comparison tool to choice products and mandate the inclusion of administrative fees as part of the performance test and methodology also delay schedule 2 so that the performance test will commence for all products on 1 July 2023. Delaying schedule 1 by even one year means that more unintended multiple accounts will be created in the additional year, which will have a significantly detrimental impact on people's retirement savings. Members' retirement savings will be boosted if action is taken as soon as possible.</para>
<para>On the issue of underperformance and coverage, the performance test isn't relevant for products in which the members themselves select their investment. Further, retirement products have much broader goals, such as income stability and flexibility, as well as longevity risk management. Expanding the coverage of the YourSuper comparison tool will severely diminish the usability of the tool.</para>
<para>On the issue of underperformance of administrative fees, the bill as drafted doesn't preclude the inclusion of administrative fees. Specifying that the regulations must include administrative fees in the methodology would limit the scope for flexibility to respond to changes in the future. On the issue of underperformance and delay, delaying schedule 2 would also delay the commencement of the YourSuper comparison tool and mean that members will remain in underperforming products for an additional year.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to check with the minister, because I know there are some other senators who are a little bit confused about this: can you confirm at this point in time that the current bill leaves some funds that are not subject to the performance test?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When the government announced the Your Future, Your Super policy back in October 2020, we set out a path for the extension of the MySuper products in the first interest to include trustee directed products from 1 July 2022, with an intent to expand to other investment options over time. The Treasury estimates that the performance test will cover 90 per cent of APRA regulated accumulation assets from 1 July 2022. Delivering on the intent to further extend the reach of the underperformance test, the government has tasked Treasury with undertaking a consultation process by 1 July 2022 to consider how best to expand the annual performance test to other superannuation products, and that includes non-trustee directed products and retirement phase products. So this will ensure that the performance test continues to have appropriate coverage.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The opposition will be supporting Senator Patrick's amendment. Let's be really clear about the advice that's just been provided by the minister in response to this suggestion. The minister is confirming that the war on industry super continues. The minister is confirming that the government's endless ideological preference for paying a lot of attention to those funds which the PC and Commissioner Hayne said perform quite well for members will continue, but no attention will be paid to the for-profit funds where the PC and Commissioner Hayne found a lot of problems. That's the problem with this bill. It is a bill that is incredibly partisan in its nature. It's a bill that refuses to engage with the evidence about actual performance in the system. Everybody wants a high-performing system. Everybody thinks that, when a worker is putting money into a superannuation fund, it should be a high-performing fund. It's not what this bill delivers. This bill delivers a lot of scrutiny for the funds that do quite well and no scrutiny at all, for a very long time, for funds that have been shown again and again and again to be ripping off members. It's pathetic.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd like to ask the minister a question on the factors. Isn't there an eight-year review period during which these funds are reviewed and looked at on a performance basis and, if they're not performing, they will be adhered to by this legislation?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, Senator Hanson, that's correct. The performance test, or the underperformance test, will apply to eight years of performance of funds, and that includes both investment and administrative fees. If a fund hasn't performed—if it hasn't lived up to its expectations or what was written on the box isn't what is being delivered to members—then that fund will have to write to members and tell them that it has underperformed, and not only that but members also will be directed to that online comparison tool so they can be given a nudge, essentially, to find a product that might be better suited to them. If a fund underperforms two years in a row—and we're talking 50 basis points below its own benchmark on a rolling eight-year average—then it won't be allowed to accept new members. Existing members can stay there, but new members can't join. The government believes that this is a very reasonable underperformance test and will sift out those that are good at what they do and those that aren't good at what they do—those that are delivering to their members and those that aren't delivering to their members and are hiding behind the skirts of those funds that are performing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Therefore, I want to ask you a question. If they're underperforming, the fact is that they're not returning high returns to their customers. Basically, could they then reflect on the amount of fees that they're charging their customers and possibly reduce the fees to the customers to give them a better return on their funds? Is that a possibility?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, that's exactly what they can do. In fact, this underperformance test will put a competitive pressure onto funds to reduce their fees, particularly those that have been close to that underperformance benchmark for some time. They will be encouraged to reduce their fees in order to make that underperformance hurdle.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: I'm just going to the Leader of the Government in the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that the calling of the result in relation to Senator Patrick's amendment on sheet 1321, which was that schedule 3 stand as printed, may not have reflected the will of the chamber. It's not unusual that, when we have the 'stand as printed' question, sometimes there's a little confusion in the resolution or application of that. Can I request that that question be put again, please, Chair?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have some questions for Senator Birmingham about his actual request. But, procedurally, can I clarify whether it's possible for Senator Birmingham to make this request at a time when Senator Patrick has another matter before the chair?</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: We should really deal with the amendments before the chair, but Minister Birmingham has alerted us to the fact that the vote needs to be put again. So I'm in the hands of the Senate. Senator Patrick.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I just want to get confirmation about the statement you made about the monitoring of the performance of funds and the notification that members get. I understand that only applied to approximately 90 per cent of the funds. I think that was the number that you used. So there are 10 per cent of funds to which that regime does not apply. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, that is correct but only for the moment. The government has flagged its intention to extend the performance test to all products in the market and, in fact, has tasked Treasury with undertaking a consultation process by 1 July 2022 to consider how best to do that, because the data does not exist that will allow us to do that right now.</para>
<para>The most important thing, though, is that the underperformance test applies to MySuper products, to default products, those products that people go into unwittingly and languish in for years unwittingly, particularly if those funds are underperforming. It will also apply from 1 July 2022 to trustee directed products, those multi-asset class products where the trustee is the one that decides what the asset mix is going to be. The vast majority of products that remain are single-asset class products. They are very small in size and they tend to be products that people have gone into on an advised basis. Moreover, they tend to be products that people have gone into as part of a portfolio mix, where you don't put all your money into one gold fund and, if that one gold fund underperforms, it really doesn't make a difference because you've got an equity fund as well—an international equity fund, an Australian equity or an Australian bond fund—and you've done your own diversification. Most of the people in those funds are advised, and that's why they're in there.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am conscious that we are moving rapidly towards the cut-off. I do have a question for Senator Birmingham. In his request that the chamber consider recommitting Senator Patrick's amendment on sheet 1321, the minister indicated that the call had been wrong. Can I just seek clarification? It's not my understanding that the call was wrong; it's my understanding that Minister Hume voted the wrong way, which I would observe is a continuation of a debacle of a process throughout the entirety of the morning.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Chair, as I acknowledged, it's not unusual, particularly in relation to the 'stand as printed' questions, when there is movement of questions going backwards and forwards, that senators—as I have seen over the years from all sides—have at times needed to request that a question be re-put as a result of the fact that they are opposing an amendment that is being put but, to oppose the amendment, they need to vote in the affirmative. That is a quirk of Senate practice. The Senate has long acknowledged that it doesn't make legislation by misadventure, that it reflects the will accurately of the chamber. That is why I make the request for that to be recommitted in relation to that question. But it is not unusual, Senator.</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: I think the minister is going to seek leave for the question to be re-put at an appropriate time.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I so do; thank you, Chair.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This speech is only a few seconds long. It's with regard to stapling. I want to draw attention to how in 2013 the Labor Party voted for a cap from $25,000 to $35,000 for those people aged 50 years and over. These are the battlers of Australia. Those people couldn't afford that extra $10,000 a year to go into their super. Ten thousand dollars a year for those 50—</para>
<para class="italic">The CHAIR: It being 11:45, we now put the question pursuant to the orders. The question is that amendments (1) to (7) on sheet 1269 moved by Senator Patrick be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:50]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm now going to re-put Senator Patrick's amendment (2) on sheet 1321. The question is that schedule 3 stand as printed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:54]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll now deal with the amendments circulated by the opposition, so that's sheets 1308, 1320, 1323 and 1324. The question is that items 3, 5, 10, 14, 20, 22 and subsection 34(2B) in item 6 of schedule 3 stand as printed.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The opposition opposed items 3, 5, 10, 14, 20, 22 and subsection 34(2B) in item 6 of schedule 3 in the following terms—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1308</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(19) Schedule 3, item 6, page 30 (line 1), subsection 34(2B) to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(20) Schedule 3, item 20, page 31 (line 26) to page 32 (line 18), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(21) Schedule 3, item 22, page 33 (lines 22 to 28), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SHEET 1324</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 3, page 29 (lines 8 to 10), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 10, page 30 (lines 17 to 19), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, item 14, page 31 (lines 7 to 9), to be opposed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [11:58]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the remaining amendments on sheet 1308 and the amendments on sheets 1320 and 1323, circulated by the opposition, be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Opposition circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<para>SHEET 1308</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 1, page 4 (after line 5), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">emergency services worker</inline> has the same meaning as in the Work Health and Safety Act 2011.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">excluded occupation</inline>: see subsection 32S(1).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">front-line health worker</inline>: see subsection 32S(2).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">health professional</inline> means a person who, under a law of a State or Territory, is registered or licensed as a member of any health profession.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 14), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 15), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 18, page 8 (lines 19 to 22), omit section 32Q, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">32Q What is the stapled fund for an employee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A fund is the <inline font-style="italic">stapled fund</inline>, for an employee at a particular time in a financial year, if all of the following requirements are met at that time:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the employee is not employed in an excluded occupation;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) APRA has made a determination under section 60C of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993 in relation to the previous financial year for each Part 6A product (within the meaning of that Act) that, at that time, is:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) offered by the fund; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) held by the employee;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the determination is that the requirements of subsection 60D(1) of that Act are met in relation to that previous financial year for each of those products;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) any requirements prescribed by the regulations for the purposes of this section are met in relation to the fund.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 18, page 9 (after line 22), at the end of section 32R, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Without limiting subsection (3), the Commissioner must, under that subsection, change an earlier notification given in relation to the employee if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the earlier notification was that the Commissioner was satisfied that there was a stapled fund for the employee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) because of a notification given to the Commissioner by APRA under section 60CA of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993, the Commissioner is no longer satisfied that the fund is a stapled fund for the employee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 1, item 18, page 9 (after line 22), at the end of Division 7, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">32S Excluded occupations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) An employee is employed in an <inline font-style="italic">excluded occupation</inline> if the employee is employed:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) in an occupation that the Australian Government Actuary has certified:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) based on rates of death, or death and total and permanent disability; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) using information from the most recent 5 years in relation to Australian occupations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">is in the riskiest quintile of Australian occupations; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) as an emergency services worker; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) as a front-line health worker.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Meaning of front-line health worker</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) A person is employed as a <inline font-style="italic">front-line health worker</inline> if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the person is employed as health professional; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the person is employed for the purposes of providing supports or services to people with disability under the National Disability Insurance Scheme; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the person's principal place of work is:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) a hospital; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a surgery; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) a health clinic; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) a residential aged care facility; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) the place of business of another business that provides health or disability services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 1, item 24, page 10 (line 26), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(8) Schedule 2, item 5, page 15 (after line 2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">defined benefit interest</inline> has the meaning given by the regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(9) Schedule 2, item 9, page 16 (line 30) to page 17 (line 4), omit section 60B, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">60B Meaning of Part 6A product</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A <inline font-style="italic">Part 6A product</inline> is any class of beneficial interest in a regulated superannuation fund, other than a defined benefit interest.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(10) Schedule 2, item 9, page 17 (after line 23), after section 60C, insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">60CA APRA to notify Commissioner of Taxation of fail assessment</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) This section applies if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) APRA gives the trustee or trustees of an entity a notification of a determination under subsection 60C(2); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the determination is that the requirement in subsection 60D(1) has not been met, for a Part 6A product offered by the entity, in relation to a financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) APRA must notify the Commissioner of Taxation in writing of the fact mentioned in paragraph (1)(b) of this section.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(11) Schedule 2, item 9, page 17 (line 25) to page 18 (line 3), omit subsection 60D(1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Meeting requirements specified in regulations</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The requirement in this subsection is met for a Part 6A product in relation to a financial year if:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the regulations specify requirements, for the purposes of this subsection, in relation to a class of Part 6A products that include that Part 6A product; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) those requirements are met for that Part 6A product in relation to the financial year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(12) Schedule 2, item 9, page 18 (after line 9), after subsection 60D(2), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2A) Regulations made for the purposes of subsection (1) must specify requirements that ensure that, for annual performance assessments conducted under this Part, the assessment of the past performance of a Part 6A product offered by a fund covers the shorter of the following periods:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the period of 10 years; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the period for which the performance of the Part 6A product offered by a fund can be assessed, including any period where a product, that was the direct predecessor of the Part 6A product, was offered by the fund.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(13) Schedule 2, item 9, page 18 (line 11), omit fees and/or.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Schedule 2, item 9, page 20 (after line 12), at the end of section 60D, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Fees</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(14) Before the Governor-General makes regulations for the purposes of subsection (1), the Minister must have regard to the impact of fees on Part 6A products.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) The investment returns mentioned in paragraph (2)(a) must be net of fees.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(15) Schedule 2, item 9, page 26 (after line 16), after subsection 60J(3), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3A) Methods under paragraph (1)(a) must include methods for ranking Part 6A products according to long-term investment returns.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3B) For the purposes of subsection (3A), <inline font-style="italic">long-term</inline> means 10 years or longer.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(16) Schedule 2, item 10, page 27 (lines 6 to 8), omit "identified by regulations made for the purposes of paragraph 60B(b) of the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(17) Schedule 3, item 5, page 29 (lines 11 to 15), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(18) Schedule 3, item 6, page 29 (after line 23), after subsection 34(2A), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2AA) Subsection (2A) does not apply to the extent that the standards relate to keeping or retaining records in relation to a non-material matter.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2AB) For the purposes of subsection (2AA), a non-material matter includes a payment or investment made:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) by or on behalf of the superannuation entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) that a reasonable person would not expect to impact materially the financial interests of the beneficiaries of the entity.</para></quote>
<para>SHEET 1320</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 3, item 11, page 30 (after line 26), after subsection 52(3A), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Payments and arrangements to which best financial interests obligations apply</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3B) Without limiting paragraph (2)(c), the obligations of the trustee under that paragraph apply in relation to the following payments made, or arrangements entered into, by or on behalf of the entity:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a payment to the trustee from the assets of the entity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an arrangement between the trustee, or a connected entity of the trustee, and a third party (including a connected entity of the trustee) that is an arrangement relating wholly or partly to the entity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) a payment to a third party by or on behalf of the trustee, or a connected entity of the trustee, that is a payment relating wholly or partly to the entity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3C) For the purposes of subsection (3B):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a <inline font-style="italic">payment</inline> includes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) a payment in the form of a fee, charge, remuneration, dividend, expense, reimbursement or indemnity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a payment to an adviser, agent, delegate, custodian, administrator, manager or other appointee of the trustee or entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) a payment authorised by a beneficiary; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an <inline font-style="italic">arrangement</inline> includes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) an arrangement to provide insured benefits in respect of beneficiaries; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) an arrangement to provide services to, or on behalf of, the trustee in relation to the entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) an arrangement for the payment of amounts out of the assets of the entity to any other party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 15, page 31 (after line 16), after subsection 52A(2A), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Payments and arrangements to which best financial interests obligations apply</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2B) Without limiting paragraph (2)(c), the obligations of the director under that paragraph apply in relation to the following payments made, or arrangements entered into, by or on behalf of the corporate trustee or the entity:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a payment to the director or the corporate trustee from the assets of the entity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an arrangement between the director or the corporate trustee (or an associate of the director or corporate trustee) and a third party that is an arrangement relating wholly or partly to the entity;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) a payment to a third party by or on behalf of the director or the corporate trustee (or an associate of the director or corporate trustee), that is a payment relating wholly or partly to the entity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2C) For the purposes of subsection (2B):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) a <inline font-style="italic">payment</inline> includes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) a payment in the form of a fee, charge, remuneration, dividend, expense, reimbursement or indemnity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) a payment to an adviser, agent, delegate, custodian, administrator, manager or other appointee of the director, corporate trustee or entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) a payment authorised by a beneficiary; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) an <inline font-style="italic">arrangement</inline> includes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) an arrangement to provide insured benefits in respect of beneficiaries; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) an arrangement to provide services to, or on behalf of, the director or corporate trustee in relation to the entity; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) an arrangement for the payment of amounts out of the assets of the entity to any other party.</para></quote>
<para>SHEET 1323</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table items 2 and 3), omit the table items, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. Schedule 1      1 July 2022.   1 July 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. Schedule 2,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Parts 1 and 2         1 July 2022.   1 July 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 6), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6. Schedule 3      1 July 2022.   1 July 2022</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 14), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, item 17, page 8 (line 15), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 1, item 24, page 10 (line 26), omit "1 July 2021", substitute "1 July 2022".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(6) Schedule 2, item 10, page 27 (lines 3 to 9), omit subitem (1), substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Subject to subitem (2), the amendments made by this Schedule apply in relation to Part 6A products on and after 1 July 2022.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(7) Schedule 3, item 24, page 34 (line 15), omit "31 December 2021", substitute "31 December 2022".</para></quote>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:02]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendments on sheet 1218 revised, as circulated by Senator Patrick, be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">Senator Patrick's circulated amendments—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 18, page 8 (lines 19 to 22), omit section 32Q, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">32Q What is the stapled fund for an employee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) A fund is the <inline font-style="italic">stapled fund</inline> for an employee at a particular time, if at that time:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the employee is not employed in a dangerous occupation; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) no fail assessments have been given in the previous 12 months in relation to any Part 6A products offered by the fund and held by the employee; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the requirements prescribed by the regulations for the purposes of this section are met.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) In this section:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">dangerous occupation</inline> means an occupation:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) that the Australian Government Actuary has certified that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) based on rates of death, or death and total and permanent disability; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) using information from the most recent 5 years in relation to Australian occupations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">is in the riskiest quintile of Australian occupations; or</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) as an emergency services worker (as defined for the purposes of the Work Health and Safety Act 2011).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">fail assessment</inline>, in relation to a Part 6A product offered by a fund, means a notification:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) given by the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority to the Commissioner under subsection 60C(3) of the <inline font-style="italic">Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993</inline>; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) of a determination that the requirement in subsection 60D(1) of that Act has not been met for the Part 6A product offered by the fund.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"><inline font-style="italic">Part 6A product</inline> has the same meaning as in the Superannuation Industry (Supervision) Act 1993.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 2, item 9, page 17 (line 12), after "APRA must give", insert "the Commissioner of Taxation and".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 2, Part 1, page 26 (after line 33), at the end of the Part, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Taxation Administration Act 1953</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">9A Paragraph 390 ‑5(9) (b) of Schedule 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">After "the *value", insert "and class".</para></quote>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:09]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Bill, as amended, agreed to.<br />Bill reported with amendments; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3145</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the remaining stages of the bill be agreed to and the bill be now passed.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:17]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>34</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P (teller)</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Lambie, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Van, D</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>3146</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>3146</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIERRAVANTI-WELLS</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice given yesterday on behalf of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Delegated Legislation, I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 for three sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Law Enforcement Integrity Commissioner Amendment (Law Enforcement Agencies) Regulations 2020, business of the Senate notices of motion Nos 3 and 4 for 10 sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Competition and Consumer (Consumer Data Right) Amendment Rules (No. 3) 2020 and the National Health (Data-matching) Principles 2020, and business of the Senate notice of motion No. 1 for 13 sitting days after today proposing the disallowance of the Telecommunications (Fibre-ready Facilities—Exempt Real Estate Development Projects) Instrument 2021.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>3146</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3148</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Selection of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>3148</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3148</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the sixth report of 2021 of the Selection of Bills Committee and I seek leave to have the report incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The report read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">REPORT NO. 6 OF 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1. The committee met in private session on Wednesday, 16 June 2021 at 7.20 pm.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2. The committee recommends that—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the Constitution Alteration (Freedom of Expression and Freedom of the Press) 2019 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 31 December 2021 (see appendix 1 for a statement of reasons for referral); and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the <inline font-style="italic">provisions</inline> of the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Improving Supports for At Risk Participants) Bill 2021 be <inline font-style="italic">referred immediately</inline> to the Community Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 22 July 2021 (see appendix 2 for a statement of reasons for referral).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3. The committee recommends that the following bills <inline font-style="italic">not</inline> be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<list>Customs Amendment (Safer Cladding) Bill 2019</list>
<list>Higher Education Support Amendment (Extending the Student Loan Fee Exemption) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021</list>
<list>Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage Amendment (Titles Administration and Other Measures) Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">Offshore Petroleum and Greenhouse Gas Storage (Regulatory Levies) Amendment Bill 2021</para></quote>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (COVID-19 Economic Response) Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">4. The committee deferred consideration of the following bills to its next meeting:</para></quote>
<list>Air Services Amendment Bill 2018</list>
<list>Australian Organ and Tissue Donation and Transplantation Authority Amendment (Governance and Other Measures) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Biosecurity Amendment (No Crime to Return Home) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Biosecurity Amendment (Strengthening Penalties) Bill 2021</list>
<list>COVID-19 Disaster Payment (Funding Arrangements) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Customs Tariff Amendment (Incorporation of Proposals) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Defence Amendment (Parliamentary Approval of Overseas Service) Bill 2020</list>
<list>Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018</list>
<list>Electric Vehicles Accountability Bill 2021</list>
<list>Farm Household Support Amendment (Debt Waiver) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Financial Regulator Assessment Authority Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">Financial Regulator Assessment Authority (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<list>Governor-General Amendment (Cessation of Allowances in the Public Interest) Bill 2019</list>
<list>Great Australian Bight Environment Protection Bill 2019</list>
<list>Major Sporting Events (Indicia and Images) Protection and Other Legislation Amendment Bill 2021</list>
<list>Migration Amendment (New Maritime Crew Visas) Bill 2020</list>
<list>Mitochondrial Donation Law Reform (Maeve's Law) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021</list>
<list>National Health Amendment (Decisions under the Continence Aids Payment Scheme) Bill 2021</list>
<list>National Health Amendment (Pharmaceutical Benefits Transparency and Cost Recovery) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Private Health Insurance Amendment (Income Thresholds) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Regional Forest Agreements Legislation (Repeal) Bill 2017</list>
<list>Royal Commissions Amendment (Protection of Information) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Amendment (No New Fossil Fuels) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Social Security Amendment (COVID-19 Supplement) Bill 2020</list>
<list>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Better Targeting Student Payments) Bill 2019</list>
<list>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Payment Integrity) Bill 2019</list>
<list>Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency (Charges) Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency Amendment (Cost Recovery) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2021 Measures No. 2) Bill 2021</list>
<list>Treasury Laws Amendment (2021 Measures No. 3) Bill 2021.</list>
<quote><para class="block">5. The committee considered the following bills but were unable to reach agreement:</para></quote>
<list>Fuel Security Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">Fuel Security (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<list>Ministerial Suitability Commission of Inquiry Bill 2021</list>
<list>Water Legislation Amendment (Inspector-General of Water Compliance and Other Measures) Bill 2021</list>
<quote><para class="block">(Dean Smith)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Chair</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">17 June 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill: Constitutional Alteration (Freedom of Expression and Freedom of the Press) 2019</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Renewed importance in the light of the judgement by Justice Steward regarding the freedom of expression in the High Court of Australia's decision in the matter of <inline font-style="italic">LibertyWorks </inline><inline font-style="italic">Inc</inline><inline font-style="italic">v Commonwealth of Australia </inline>[2021] HCA 18 of 16 June 2021 at 249.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Media organisations, journalists, civil liberty groups, constitutional experts and legal organisations or bodies, persons concerned with the reduction of freedom of speech.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As decided by Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As decided by Committee, before 31 December 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appendix 2</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Improving Supports for At Risk Participants) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Need for consultation with the sector.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>Australian Federation of Disability Organisations</list>
<list>People With Disability Australia</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To be determined by the Committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">22 July 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">SELECTION OF BILLS COMMITTEE</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Proposal to refer a bill to a committee</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Name of bill:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (improving Supports for At Risk Participants) Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reasons for referral/principal issues for consideration:</para></quote>
<list>We have significant concerns with provisions within this bill which we have raised with the government. Including:</list>
<list>A lack of consultation with the disability community and sector on significant safeguarding reforms. Particularly at a time where we have a Royal Commission and an inquiry in to the Quality and Safeguards Commission by the NDIS Joint Standing Committee, we think that reforms to Safeguarding must be consulted on to ensure they operate to better ensure the safety of participants. This legislation has not gone out to the disability sector for formal consultation and we have been consistently told by the sector that they hold concerns and would like the opportunity to make submissions to ensure that this bill does indeed promote the safety of participants.</list>
<list>Privacy of participant information is not sufficiently clear. We are very concerned about a lack of detail on what guidelines Commission and Agency staff (as well as training) are being provided to ensure that they do not mishandle highly sensitive personal information, or take actions that are inconsistent with enhancing safeguarding. The NDlA holds significant data on participants. Privacy experts should have the ability to go through this in conjunction with disabled persons organisations. This legislation proposes a two-way flow of information between the NDIA and the Quality and Safeguards Commission without providing any information on what data will be shared, what requirements there are to ensure participants/families/carers are informed about their information being shared, and what the practical implications are of sharing participant information for the purposes of safeguarding will mean for participants and their engagement with both the ND1A and the Quality and Safeguards Commission.</list>
<list>There are a number of issues with the proposed legislation that will impact on disabled people around the use of restrictive practices, safeguarding and workers, including potentially impacting on workers' rights. These need to go out for consultation for an appropriate timeframe with Disabled People's Organisations and unions.</list>
<list>This bill is applies its provisions retrospectively. We would like to better understand what this means for the Commission's work and how it will use these new provisions to enhance safeguarding for participants.</list>
<list>This bill proposes changes to the banning order function of the Quality and Safeguards Commission. We would like to better understand this change and what it means for participant safety. To date, we do not have enough information on this.</list>
<list>We hold concerns about the changes being proposed to who in the Commission is able to review reviewable decisions. These changes need to be further scrutinised.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible submissions or evidence from:</para></quote>
<list>People with Disability Australia</list>
<list>Australian Federation of Disability Organisations</list>
<list>Children and Young People with Disability Australia</list>
<list>Every Australian Counts</list>
<list>Public Interest Advocacy Centre</list>
<list>Disability Advocacy Network Australia</list>
<list>Women with Disabilities Australia</list>
<list>Melbourne Disability institute</list>
<list>Professor Bruce Bonyhady</list>
<list>Kirsten Deane</list>
<list>NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission</list>
<list>NDIA</list>
<quote><para class="block">Committee to which bill is to be referred:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Possible hearing date(s):</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">July — August — September</para></quote>
<list>These are significant reforms, in the context of other inquiry processes seeking to reform the NDIS Quality and Safeguards Commission. We think this requires sufficient time to scrutinise and reach recommendations that are a product of thorough community consultation.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Possible reporting date:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">August — September</para></quote>
<list>This is to allow the community sufficient time to engage with an inquiry process</list>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the report be adopted.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "and the Ministerial Suitability Commission of Inquiry Bill 2021 not be referred to a committee".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"and, in respect of the Ministerial Suitability Commission of Inquiry Bill 2021, the bill be referred immediately to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee for inquiry and report by 10 August 2021."</para></quote>
<para>What we saw yesterday was only the fifth time in this chamber's history that a government has blocked a bill being read a first time. What we're now seeing is a government attempting to block a private member's bill going to inquiry. This is an absolute debasement of process. This is a government throwing its weight around to protect one of its own. Let's call this for what it is: this is a protection racket for Minister Christian Porter because this government doesn't want to face an inquiry into whether he raped a woman decades ago. That's what's under debate here. Rather than respect process and rather than have the Prime Minister do the decent thing and actually undertake an inquiry himself or have cause for an inquiry to be undertaken, they just want to silence the voices of so many people who are demanding justice, while trying to pretend that everything is fine and that this isn't a problem at all. Well, this is not going to fly. How long are you going to put up a protection racket for Minister Porter and keep this alleged rapist in the cabinet? How long? We won't stop moving to introduce this bill and we won't stop moving to try to send it to inquiry.</para>
<para>I want to go into the allegations, but I want to make an important point of principle: private members are able to introduce private member's bills. We are also able to refer bills to inquiry. It is a virtual matter of course. It is highly unprecedented for a government to stand in the way of a private member's bill to be read a first time and even more unusual to stand in the way of a private member's bill going to inquiry. This should send chills down the spines of everyone who's interested in having a government that's accountable and open to scrutiny. This is a slide towards a dictatorship in aid of protecting an alleged rapist in the cabinet. You could not make this stuff up.</para>
<para>Yesterday we had Jo Dyer, who was a friend of Kate, the woman who alleged that Christian Porter raped her many decades ago, in the chamber, and she was incredulous that this government would stoop to such lengths as to stop this issue being talked about. She made the point to the media that, in fact, this issue won't stop being talked about. You might try to silence us, but we are not going anywhere. Ninety-thousand people signed a petition calling for an inquiry into whether Minister Porter should remain a minister, and there are many more thousands of people that would like to have confidence in the organs of government but cannot, and there are many more women who have been raped or sexually assaulted—in fact, 90 per cent of them have not gone to the police. Why? Because they fear they won't be believed. Your actions today and yesterday send a message that women will not be believed when we speak out about assaults that we have experienced, and that is an absolute abomination. The motives you have for sending that message, to protect one of your own, to protect the boys club—it is an absolutely horrific occurrence. I am almost lost for words that you would sink to these lows rather than simply let justice run its course and have the Prime Minister do the right thing and inquire into whether or not his ministers are fit to remain ministers. That is the point of the Prime Minister's Statement of Ministerial Standards. That is the point of that document. If there is no point to that document, just shred it—like you have your credibility.</para>
<para>If the government can block me introducing a bill and can block me sending a bill to inquiry, I am hopeful that the crossbench will see that it can do the very same to them. Perhaps it's veterans suicide. Perhaps it's something that One Nation want to progress—although they seem to have quite ready access to this government. The principle is: the government of the day should not be able to stop senators introducing private senators' bills and having those bills sent to inquiry. I expected you would have simply shrunk the time for the inquiry, blocked any public hearings from going ahead and done it all on the papers; I expected that level of nefariousness. I didn't expect you to just block this bill from going to inquiry at all. I will ask the researchers to work out how often this has happened. This is a slide into a dictatorship by this government, who are allergic to transparency and are desperate to protect an alleged rapist in their own cabinet. They are sending a message to every woman in this nation who has been raped or assaulted that they don't believe her.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to respond to that comment by Senator Waters with regard to her private senator's bill. I was one of the ones who blocked it, and I would do it again and again and again. I think that that private senator's bill was absolutely disgusting. To think that this parliament could put it up and see whether a member of parliament, elected by the people, is a fit and proper person, when this parliament was set up, under our Constitution, with a separation of powers between the judiciary and the parliament. That is not the case here.</para>
<para>A private senator's bill of this nature means that they want to act as judge and jury. This has been before the police. There are no allegations because the person who made the allegations to a friend has now passed away. The minister has been before the police to see if there is a case to answer. We are not here to act as a judicial part of the parliament, to see if someone is a fit and proper person. I could name someone in the Greens party who I think should come under that also; I could put up a private senator's bill to see whether they are a fit and proper person to be here in this parliament as well. Where does it stop? Who will be the next one to be called out?</para>
<para>I think it's absolutely disgusting of the Greens to carry on as if they have the right to bring anyone to justice, when we have a judicial system, not a private senator's bill, to do that. We have rejected a private senator's bill in this place because of the wording. To say whether a member of parliament is fit and proper is not up to this parliament. It's not up to an inquiry. It is not up to the Greens to investigate whether he's guilty or not. It is up to the courts to decide that. We have a process of justice in this country, and if we allow this to happen who will be the next one in line that they are disagreeable with?</para>
<para>I am fully supportive of Christian Porter getting on and doing the job he was elected to do. The fact is that it will be the people of his electorate who will make the decision, not the Greens or anyone else pushing their own agenda. It is not up to you. Leave this to our judicial system to deal with. We have a system in place. I think it's disgusting and appalling for you to be carrying on again, like you do, as if you've got—I can't even say who you are. It is absolutely shameful and disgusting that you are actually doing this.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to make a brief comment, because I think it is worth distinguishing the role of the judiciary from the role of the Senate. The role of the judiciary is to in fact deal with either criminal or civil offences. That is not the subject of this particular amendment; this goes to the fitness of a member of parliament to be a minister, to be part of the executive. It is in fact the constitutional duty of the Senate to have oversight of government. It is a principle or a key pillar of a responsible system of government that the cabinet is responsible to the legislature. I just wanted to distinguish that there are two issues. One could be judicial and one is clearly a proper matter for the Senate in the execution of its constitutional responsibilities. I say nothing as to the allegations that have been raised. But it is appropriate that, if a question is raised, it can be examined by the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>First of all, I want to quote Senator Waters. She said: 'Let justice run its course.'6 I want to make a comment that rape is a terrible, terrible, terrible crime. But the answer for any crime is the law and upholding the law. So let justice run its course. I need to note that the Greens are implicitly finding Mr Porter guilty—hung, drawn and quartered, guilty—and yet we have seen no trial. The parliament is responsible for making the laws of our country, the police are responsible for enforcing those laws, and the judiciary is responsible for adjudicating on those laws. We need that process—not to supplant it by a process within this parliament. That is why I oppose it and that is why I want justice to run its course. We see the Greens as abusing parliamentary process. Petitions do not decide ministerial appointments and do not decide whether a minister stays or is removed. That's why we oppose what the Greens are trying to do.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is the Australian Greens amendment on sheet AG 1 moved by Senator Waters be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:36]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Duniam be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:39]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Antic, A</name>
                  <name>Bragg, AJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Chandler, C</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Davey, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Henderson, SM</name>
                  <name>Hughes, H</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>McDonald, S</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>McLachlan, A</name>
                  <name>McMahon, S</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, MA</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Rennick, G</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Roberts, M</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scarr, P</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Small, B</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Ayres, T</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Ciccone, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gallagher, KR</name>
                  <name>Green, N</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, D</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Sheldon, A</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Thorpe, LA</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Walsh, J</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names />
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add "and the following bills not be referred to committees:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Fuel Security Bill 2021</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Fuel Security (Consequential and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2021; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Water Legislation Amendment (Inspector-General of Water Compliance and Other Measures) Bill 2021".</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just wanted to say something briefly about the amendment. I have a concern in relation to the Fuel Security Bill. I'm actually generally supportive of that bill, but I'm worried that, at some later stage, we're going to get to a point on a Wednesday where a time motion is going to be moved; we won't get to have this looked at the committee stage, by way of a Senate committee; and then we won't get to debate it in the chamber. I note that every Wednesday we're seeing a motion that deals with time moved, and we have to rethink that.</para>
<para>In relation to the inspector-general of the Murray-Darling Basin, that's a really, really important role. I note that the bill is quite complicated. It involves penalties and indictable offences.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the debate has expired. It being 12.45, I intend to deal with the questions before the chair, which includes the Selection of Bills Committee report. The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Ruston be agreed to.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>An honourable senator: by leave—Mr President, under the standing orders I ask that the Australian Greens be recorded as being opposed to the motion.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—Mr President, under the standing orders I ask that my name be recorded as being opposed to the motion.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STEELE-JOHN</name>
    <name.id>250156</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"but, in respect of the provisions of the National Disability Insurance Scheme Amendment (Improving Supports for At Risk Participants) Bill 2021, the Community Affairs Legislation Committee report by 12 August 2021."</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Original question, as amended, agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>3157</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>3157</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) government business orders of the day as shown on today's <inline font-style="italic">Order of Business</inline> be considered from 12.45 pm today; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) government business be called on after consideration of the bills listed in paragraph (a) and considered till not later than 2 pm today;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) general business notice of motion no. 1144 be considered during general business today; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) the following private senators' bills be considered on Monday, 21 June 2021:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Migration Amendment (New Maritime Crew Visas) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">COAG Reform Fund Amendment (No Electric Vehicle Taxes) Bill 2020</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Amendment (No New Fossil Fuels) Bill 2021 [No. 2].</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>3158</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator Askew for today for medical reasons.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3158</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education Legislation Amendment (2021 Measures No. 2) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3158</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6686" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Education Legislation Amendment (2021 Measures No. 2) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3158</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the Education Legislation Amendment (2021 Measures No. 2) Bill 2021. This bill makes administrative changes to the Higher Education Support Act and the Education Services for Overseas Students Act. It is designed to fix uncontroversial and recognised issues in the existing legislation.</para>
<para>The bill amends the citizenship requirements within the Higher Education Loan Program to ensure that students on humanitarian visas do not lose access for travelling overseas after spending five years in Australia, and empowers the minister to extend availability of HELP from 1 January 2022 to students who have previously held permanent humanitarian visas. This is a worthwhile change that improves access to Australia's world-class higher education system for visa holders.</para>
<para>The bill also contains a number of other technical amendments.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Siewert</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Acting Deputy President, we can't hear. I don't know if the microphone is on—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could everyone who is not participating in this debate please clear the chamber, and can we make sure the microphone is working for Senator Brown. Go ahead, Senator Brown.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It remedies the nomenclature of the university funding clusters where Indigenous languages are classified as foreign languages, streamlines the operation of grant funding, clarifies the operation of grandfathering arrangements under the Liberals' increased university fees, and extends the ESOS Act to former registered providers to strengthen the operation of the tuition protection scheme. Labor does not oppose any of these measures.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3159</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated, so, unless a senator requires that we go into the committee stage, we will move to the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Competition and Consumer Amendment (Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Information Sharing Scheme) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3159</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6695" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Competition and Consumer Amendment (Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Information Sharing Scheme) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3159</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No matter what make or model of the car they own, Australians should be able to choose where they get their car serviced or repaired. For years car manufacturers and large dealerships have tightly guarded the technical information required by independent mechanics to safely carry out servicing of and repairs on motor vehicles. Labor supports the Competition and Consumer Amendment (Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Information Sharing Scheme) Bill 2021. In fact, we've been calling for this very change for a long time.</para>
<para>In 2011, the then Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasurer, the Hon. David Bradbury, requested the Commonwealth Consumer Affairs Advisory Council to report on the consumer harm caused by the lack of access to service and repair information. As a result of that report, the Gillard government endorsed the need for a code of conduct between independent automotive repairers and car manufacturers to allow repairers access to the data they needed from manufacturers to service modern cars. Unfortunately, progress on a compulsory scheme stalled under this government. That is why, in May 2018, Labor announced that, following the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's 2017 report on its new car retailing industry market study, Labor would put in place a mandatory code requiring manufacturers to share with independent mechanics the information they need to fix modern cars. We proposed a mandatory code because it was clear that the voluntary code that had been put in place in 2014 requiring manufacturers to share data and technical information with independent mechanics wasn't working. Over the past 10 years, Labor has been advocating for fairer access to data. We have listened to and met with a large number of automotive and consumer organisations and independent mechanics advocating for the provisions of this bill. We know that more choice gives consumers a better deal on car service and repairs, and that's more money back into the pockets of car owners.</para>
<para>This bill amends the Competition and Consumer Act to establish a scheme that mandates all service and repair information provided to car dealership networks and manufacturer-preferred repairers be made available to independent repairers and the registered training organisations to purchase. This bill will level the playing field by addressing some of the power imbalances between multinational manufacturers, independent mechanics and small-business repairers. Although relevant across Australia, this power imbalance is particularly evident in regional, rural and remote Australia, where vehicle owners have fewer choices for servicing and repairs. In some locations there are no authorised dealers, so consumers must travel long distances or tow vehicles to other locations, costing them time and money, while smaller local repairers lose out on business.</para>
<para>After Labor flagged the underlying reasons and need for this bill with a policy announcement in May 2018, we are pleased to see that the government has finally acted. The government's decision to adopt Labor's policies is an overdue win for consumers, for small-business repairers and for car owners, who have been campaigning for this change. It will encourage competition and give Australians greater choice around where they service and repair their vehicles.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3160</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Higher Education Support Amendment (Extending the Student Loan Fee Exemption) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3160</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6706" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Higher Education Support Amendment (Extending the Student Loan Fee Exemption) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3160</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will support the Higher Education Support Amendment (Extending the Student Loan Fee Exemption) Bill 2021. This legislation makes sensible amendments to extend the extension of the FEE-HELP loan fee. Under the current arrangements, students who require financial assistance through FEE-HELP to study at a private, non-university, higher-education provider must pay a 20 per cent loan fee on top of the loan, and of course Labor supports this bill because the benefits of this exemption flow to the students.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3161</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Medical and Midwife Indemnity Legislation Amendment Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3161</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6719" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Medical and Midwife Indemnity Legislation Amendment Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>3161</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3161</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">I am pleased to introduce the Medical and Midwife Indemnity Legislation Amendment Bill 2021. This Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Medical Indemnity Act 2002 </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Midwife Professional Indemnity (Commonwealth Contribution) Scheme Act 2010 </inline>to expand eligibility for claims against privately practising midwives under the Commonwealth's medical and midwife indemnity schemes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Specifically, this Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Medical Indemnity Act 2002</inline> to ensure that claims made against midwives in private practice whose registration is not endorsed by the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Australia to prescribe scheduled medicines (registered only midwives) and covered under their own insurance contract are now eligible under the Allied Health High Costs Claims Scheme and Allied Health Exceptional Claims Scheme, where the claim relates to incidents that occurred on or from 1 July 2020.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This change will ensure that the medical indemnity legislation reflects the Commonwealth's policy that all registered only midwives have coverage under the Allied Health Schemes since its commencement on 1 July 2020, ensuring parity of arrangements for all other registered allied health professionals eligible under the Allied Health Schemes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also amends the <inline font-style="italic">Midwife Professional Indemnity (Commonwealth Contribution) Scheme Act 2010</inline> to expand the Midwife Professional Indemnity Scheme and the Midwife Professional Indemnity Run-off Cover Scheme, otherwise known as the Midwife Schemes, to remove criteria relating to the employment arrangements of midwives that have resulted in certain privately practising midwives being excluded from the Midwife Schemes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Importantly, this amendment will enable key Aboriginal Community Controlled Health Services to choose to access professional indemnity insurance for their employed midwives who have been endorsed by the Nursing and Midwifery Board of Australia to prescribe scheduled medicines.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means that employed endorsed midwives, including those employed by Aboriginal and Community Controlled Health Services will be eligible for indemnity coverage under the Midwife Schemes if they enter into policies with the eligible insurer under these Schemes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Without this change, these employed endorsed midwives would not have been eligible for the Midwife Schemes, which provide capped premiums (and have not been increased since the Scheme's inception 11 years ago) and access to the Midwife Professional Indemnity Run-off Cover Scheme, that provides free cover for midwives who permanently retire from private practice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These changes support an employed endorsed midwife's choice about whether or not to participate in the Midwife Professional Indemnity Scheme or remain under the Allied Health Schemes. This flexibility in arrangements supports midwives to work in a variety of different engagements, without their indemnity insurance being a barrier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also provides certainty to insurers of the Commonwealth's ongoing commitment to subsidise the costs associated with medical negligence claims against privately practising midwives, further incentivising insurers to provide professional indemnity insurance to midwives in private practice. The Bill has been developed in consultation with key medical indemnity insurers currently participating in the Commonwealth's medical and midwife indemnity schemes and the Australian College of Midwives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Amendments made by this Bill will mean that all privately practising midwives can access one of the Commonwealth's medical or midwife indemnity schemes. This supports the principle that women are the centre of maternity care and that they should have access to a wide range of birthing choices. Importantly this Bill provides certainty to our midwives to continue their important roles of supporting women in their birthing journey with the knowledge that they will have access to Commonwealth subsidised indemnity schemes if needed.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the Medical and Midwife Indemnity Legislation Amendment Bill 2021. This bill amends the Allied Health High Cost Claim Indemnity Scheme and the Allied Health Exceptional Claims Indemnity Scheme, to ensure businesses that employ midwives, regardless of their endorsement status, will be covered by the scheme. This bill will expand the coverage of the professional indemnity insurance schemes to a group of midwives who, due to gaps in the current legislation, have been excluded due to their endorsement status. This bill extends the Midwife Professional Indemnity Scheme, or the MPIS, to cover midwives employed by private practices and removes the requirement that midwives must be the sole owners of a practice to receive the cover offered.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3163</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3163</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6662" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3163</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021. There still remains much to be done in the emerging area of the therapeutic use of medicinal cannabis. The legislation implements a number of recommendations from the McMillan review of the original legislation that was passed in this place in 2016 and streamlines various processes for industry participants. Medicinal cannabis is a very fast-developing therapeutic product, not just here in Australia but across the world—a product derived from the cannabis plant, which has some 80 to 100 different cannabinoids, only two of which are used for medicinal or therapeutic, as opposed to recreational, purposes. Labor acknowledges Australia's outstanding medicines approval authority, the Therapeutic Goods Administration, which has the responsibility for assessing and then approving therapeutic goods and registering those goods on the ARTG, the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods. Currently, the lack of availability of affordable, safe, approved products as part of the existing legal framework for the TGA in this legislation is leading the vast bulk of Australians who use medicinal cannabis products to access them outside the legal framework.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021. This bill implements a select number of the recommendations from the review of the medicinal cannabis scheme undertaken by Professor John McMillan in 2019. It makes a number of administrative changes to the licensing scheme and application process for medicinal cannabis suppliers. It will introduce a single licence for the cultivation, production and manufacture of and research into medicinal cannabis. This bill creates a perpetual licence and periodic permit structure for most activities for which a medicinal cannabis licence is required. This should reduce the administrative burden on the industry, but it's unclear whether these benefits will result in better processing times and reduced costs for patients.</para>
<para>This bill also provides that assessments relating to supply chains are to be undertaken later in the application process, at the permit stage instead of the licence stage. This is a positive change as it's difficult for medicinal cannabis suppliers to identify supply chains at the start of their licence application process when their business is still developing. It makes sense for the department to evaluate supply chains later in the application process, at the time when permits are being sought.</para>
<para>The Greens do support this bill. These changes will improve the application times and reduce the regulatory burden on the applicants and licensees. In theory, reducing the burden on industry will result in lower-priced medicinal cannabis drugs. But will the regulatory cost for industry really be reduced to such an extent that the benefits will flow through to Australian patients? Will this bill really result in expanded medicinal cannabis supply pathways? This, of course, remains to be seen, and we'll be watching it closely.</para>
<para>The government claims this bill reaffirms their commitment to make available to patients a safe, legal and sustainable supply of cannabis-derived medicines. However, it's clear from my discussions with stakeholders that this bill does little to meaningfully improve patient access to medicinal cannabis. The government needs to take further practical steps to ensure more affordable, accessible local products are available for Australian patients.</para>
<para>Medicinal cannabis is an important drug used to treat or alleviate many health conditions and circumstances, including epilepsy, multiple sclerosis, chronic pain and chemotherapy-induced nausea, and in palliative care. Yet, most Australians who need access to medicinal cannabis have no choice but to access it through the black market, as the committee inquiry last year heard. Researchers predict that over 600,000 Australians are using cannabis for medicinal reasons, but the vast majority are forced to source medicinal cannabis illegally.</para>
<para>The Senate Community Affairs References Committee inquiry into current barriers to patient access to medicinal cannabis in Australia reported in March last year. During this inquiry, we heard from patients across the country who had been unable to access the medicinal cannabis treatment that they needed due to regulatory barriers and enormous cost. Cost is a hugely prohibitive factor for patients needing access to medicinal cannabis. It is completely unacceptable that people can be thousands of dollars out of pocket—that's what we heard: thousands of dollars—trying to access legal medicinal cannabis products through the regulated system, when the black market is far cheaper.</para>
<para>Doctors are interested in prescribing medicinal cannabis, but they say they don't have the skills or knowledge required. There is no streamlined program for delivering education in this area. Doctors shouldn't be turning patients away because of the complexities of prescribing medicinal cannabis and their lack of training in how to prescribe and use medicinal cannabis.</para>
<para>Nothing has progressed to meaningfully improve patient access to medicinal cannabis since the Senate inquiry reported last year. When the government handed down its response to the Senate inquiry, I was very disappointed to see that they did not accept some of the key recommendations, including recommendation 5, which stated that if the TGA failed to address barriers to regulation, then a new independent regulator should be considered. It's clear that we haven't fixed the issues around regulation yet.</para>
<para>Again, I'm calling on the government to fix these issues around regulation or to put in place an independent regulator immediately. Patients are sick of waiting and they shouldn't be kept waiting any longer. Ignorance and, I have to say, perhaps ideology are getting in the way of patient care, and this has to stop. We know what to do. Medicinal cannabis is safer than many prescribed drugs, such as opioids, which can be diverted and cause fatal overdose, and we've seen lots of media about the problems there. Yet Australian patients are needlessly suffering because they can't access affordable medicinal cannabis. The current system just doesn't work. It's broken, and patients who need medicinal cannabis are paying the price. It's time for the government to implement all the recommendations of the Senate inquiry into medicinal cannabis to ensure that all Australians have access to the medicine they need. It's just plain cruel, in our opinion, to deny people access to treatments when we know they work and when we know that they give people better quality of life.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, this bill has missed an opportunity to put patients at the centre. It's time to take action and transform these symbolic steps into meaningful change. The Greens are ready to work with all sides of this place to make medicinal cannabis more affordable and accessible to all patients who need it. Having said that, as I articulated, we will be supporting this bill, but this cannot be the final word. We need more urgent action so that patients can access medicinal cannabis that is affordable.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ROBERTS</name>
    <name.id>266524</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a servant to the people of Queensland and Australia, I support the Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021 because it implements a large number of the recommendations of the McMillan report. That's why we will be supporting this bill. Implementation of medicinal cannabis in Australia was reviewed by Professor McMillan of the Australian National University in 2018. The report was presented to the government in July of 2019—almost two years ago. One Nation has been attempting to get this legislation before the parliament since November 2019. Finally, after almost two years, here it is—and what a moribund display. Professor McMillan's report looked at the supply side of medicinal cannabis, not the medical decision-making. That was a shame, as the pathway system is heavily flawed. Medicinal cannabis will remain out of reach for everyday Australians who are unable to navigate the obstacle course that was put in place by the government and that was seemingly designed to prevent large-scale access. They want to stop this.</para>
<para>My constituents in rural and regional Queensland find it especially hard to access a doctor approved to prescribe medicinal cannabis. It would appear that prising the pharmaceutical industry's hands off prescription pads is a task for which this government lacks the will. In fact, we've seen an orgy of spending on pharmaceutical industry products in recent months without the slightest attempt at safety testing, products that the Chief Medical Officer, the Therapeutic Drugs Administration and the Secretary of the Department of Health refused to endorse as 100 per cent safe. Compare that sloppiness and lackadaisical approach to the rules applied to medicinal cannabis, where thousands of years of experience and 30 years of research establishing the safety of medicinal cannabis is far in excess of the experimental, provisionally approved vaccines that this government rushed to purchase and is now forcing on an unwilling population.</para>
<para>This bill, though, is long overdue. The changes to licensing will have a significant impact. Previously, anyone wanting to invest in medicinal cannabis production needed to apply for separate licences for growing, processing and production, each lasting 12 months and issued at different times. Each licence had fees and endless rules which created a huge compliance cost and introduced a substantial risk. Any cannabis business was in danger of losing their licence at any time through no fault of their own. It takes a year to build out a production facility. With no guarantee that the licence would be renewed, what incentive was there for small players to invest in medicinal cannabis? As a result, the industry has become dominated by a small number of publicly listed companies. As with any industry, competition is king. A heavily regulated industry occupied by a small number of corporates is not in Australia's best interests, and I'm pleased that Professor McMillan saw that. This legislation combines the three licences into one and extends the term to five years, with an automatic renewal for companies with a good record of governance. This will encourage new and. smaller entrants to the market and, in turn, prices will fall, and that's what we need.</para>
<para>The new licence for research is also a good measure. Research is currently funded by powerful interests associated with maintaining the status quo—no medicinal cannabis—rather than those seeking to expand human knowledge of the wonderful new world of the human endocannabinoid system. I look forward to new findings on the effects of the 460 compounds in cannabis that interact with the human endocannabinoid system to help our bodies heal themselves.</para>
<para>'Heal themselves'—that's what's beautiful about medicinal cannabis. The benefits of medicinal cannabis, documented in pharmacopoeias dating back 200 years, are now proven by medical research around the world. So very little of that research, though, is Australian. This new research licence should create a new avenue for Australian academics to do something useful for a change. There's still much to be done when cannabis comes under the pathway system in Australia. It costs 100 times what the same item costs in the United States, and Australians deserve far better.</para>
<para>A One Nation initiative last year saw a relaxation of the licensing system for the production of cannabis for export. I do believe that the cannabis community missed the huge benefit in the Export Control Act 2020 amendment. Australia is now seeing the benefit of that legislation, with new facilities under construction, increasing supply and lower retail prices for domestic sales. That's not to mention bringing jobs and wealth into local communities, legally. A new $400 million facility has been announced near Toowoomba Wellcamp Airport, set to open the year after next. This facility will export $1 billion worth of cannabis to the world market. With those export volumes will come further reductions in the prices charged to Australian patients.</para>
<para>With the sensible changes now to licensing and the Narcotic Drugs Amendment (Medicinal Cannabis) Bill 2021, price reductions should flow through quite quickly, and we're pleased to see that. One Nation is proud of the work we've been doing these last two years to bring Australian whole-plant, natural medicinal cannabis to anyone with a medical need, by a doctor's prescription and supplied by a chemist. We also note that the government is looking to reschedule low-THC cannabis into schedule 3 as an over-the-counter chemist-only medication. One Nation supports that rescheduling enthusiastically, and we'd ask the government to get on with it. We're happy to work with the government in improving, in any way, medicinal cannabis access by the people of our country.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just last week I was presenting the potential benefits to Tasmanian primary producers in the industrial hemp and medicinal cannabis industries to the National Farmers Federation national conference in Launceston, where I live, for their Regionalisation Agenda 2030. It was ironic that one of the things we discussed was that the last time we saw the Narcotics Drugs Act amended was to allow Australian growers to export medicinal cannabis products to the world, particularly to the Canadian market and, of course, to the US market in California. Yet, while the primary production minister, Mr David Littleproud, was bragging that Australian farmers and companies are now the fourth-biggest exporters of cannabis products to the world—and we could potentially be the biggest, according to the minister—he won't let those companies and primary producers sell their products to Australian consumers, except under the extremely strict conditions which my colleague Senator Siewert has already gone into today. It's ironic. If we have a moral issue or an ideological issue with making cannabis products available to medical patients, why would we be bragging about the job that Australian farmers and companies are doing in terms of their export numbers without actually thinking, 'Well, shouldn't we be making those products more easily available to Australians who are suffering and who need them?' Senator Siewert also mentioned how expensive these products are. It makes perfect sense that, if we have that production diverted to local sources, of course we're going to have more supply, and it's going to make those products more accessible and cheaper for Australians who need to use them.</para>
<para>I also pointed out to the Tasmanian producers—I've been in trouble for talking about this before—that Tasmania is the poppy state. Not only have Tasmanian farmers made a lot of money over many years by growing poppies and exporting them to the world, but Australian companies like Tas Alkaloids were actually the companies that invented painkillers like OxyContin. That was synthesised and invented in Tasmania and exported to the world. That particular drug and others of that family have recently been involved in massive US court cases—some of the biggest-liability court cases in US history, with hundreds of billions of dollars of damages being sought from pharmaceutical companies for selling and distributing OxyContin, because it is so highly addictive. It's one of the most addictive narcotics that a human being can take, yet it's legal. I don't blame Tasmanian farmers for growing poppies, but I know many of them are struggling with the moral dilemmas of the product that they've been making, which was invented and synthesised in Tasmania and has been linked to this plague of death and addiction in the US.</para>
<para>Just from a risk diversification point of view, I was encouraging Tasmanian farmers to look at industrial hemp and its many applications, as well as the medicinal cannabis market. But they're restricted to exporting it. They can't make it at the moment for local consumption. So I think that's a really important point.</para>
<para>I was joined in my presentation by Tim Schmidt, who's the head of the Tasmanian Hemp Association and also on the national board of hemp. Tim's group advocates for industrial hemp. Industrial hemp can be used to make medicinal cannabis products; there is an industrial process for that. While his organisation doesn't, strictly, advocate for medicinal cannabis in terms of other species of cannabis, he recognised the profitability for farmers. Of course, in talking to farmers, you've got to talk to them about why this crop could make them money compared to what else they're using in their paddocks. Tim said that, in the market for good-quality industrial hemp that's being used for medicinal cannabis in Canada, farmers are receiving up to US$12,000 a tonne for their product that's being sold into those medicinal markets. That's for hemp; cannabis products can actually yield even more. The figures that Tim talked to Tassie farmers about were up to $20,000 per hectare for growing good, high-quality cannabis for the medicinal market. So it's a win-win for farmers if they can see that this is sustainable for them and it's worth it for them to do this, and it's a win-win for Australians who need to access these products. Why not access locally sourced products rather than importing products from overseas?</para>
<para>Senator Siewert also mentioned that the illicit market just for medicinal cannabis products is around 600,000 Australians. It's estimated that only four per cent of those are receiving those products via prescriptions. This bill goes into some details about why there are so many restrictions on Australians accessing medicinal cannabis or CBD products. I know that in Tasmania it's been nearly impossible. I've been trying to get some people onto trials in Tasmania, and it's been nearly impossible to do that. Some of them have had to source their prescriptions from Victoria and other places.</para>
<para>So I asked myself: why is it so difficult for a product that we know works and that is a good alternative for other dangerous narcotics that are legal, like opioids? It's the mentality, the ideology, around it. We go back to the 1930s and the days of <inline font-style="italic">Reefer Madness</inline>—arguably one of the worst films ever made—which tied in with the prohibition on marijuana in the 1930s. It almost destroyed the hemp industry, let alone cannabis for medical purposes—and it's still alive and well.</para>
<para>In 2012, I was asking FSANZ in estimates why Tasmanian farmers and Australian farmers couldn't grow industrial hemp for food? Hemp is one of the highest sources of omega-3. It's a really profitable and good product for farmers to be growing. I couldn't get a straight answer out of FSANZ. But, as it turned out later, the police had issues with farmers growing industrial hemp, because they didn't believe that they could control it and that there were risks with the illicit narcotics market being associated with that. One of the things that the police had apparently raised—as we saw later—was that people might hide illegal cannabis crops inside industrial hemp. It's ironic that, when I raised this with Tim, he said, 'Well, actually, it's a joke, because the plants will cross-pollinate each other.'</para>
<para>After I visited Tim's industrial hemp crop, I then went to visit a local sawmiller in Meander, Deloraine. He said, 'Where have you been today?' and I said, 'I've been visiting Tim Schmidt and his hemp crop.' This sawmiller laughed and said, 'Tim's not very popular around here, Peter,' and I said, 'Why?' He said, 'All the local pot growers don't like him because his industrial hemp is ruining their pot crops.' So the idea that somehow this amazing product, which we've used for more than 10,000 years, needs to be restricted in terms of its access because someone might grow a pot crop nearby is ludicrous. But it's typical of the attitude that we've seen that has restricted the growth of this amazing industry that has so much potential.</para>
<para>I want to talk about the Australian market for medicinal cannabis. We're seeing a lot of private equity interest in companies that are going through the process to register—obviously working out the cultivation side of that, which is the primary production side, through to licensing and permits and, of course, the supply chain. The market is estimated at $171.7 million in Australia at the moment and has been forecast to grow at 42 per cent per annum. Of course, there's a reason for that. It's because there's a very strong demand for this product. There are people out there who need it. They know that it works, they want to get off opiates and they want to try alternatives.</para>
<para>While the TGA has recently changed CBD products in terms of its scheduling, once again, unlike other countries that list CBD products as food products so they're available for the medicinal market, Australia is going through a very restrictive process for any company that wants to register a CBD product to be available over the counter at your local pharmacy. It's going to be very difficult for them to do that and they're going to have to do it at such a low level of efficacy that it's going to be hard to prove that it has any effect. Believe it or not, the target is mostly grumpy, middle-aged white men like me who want to sleep better at night-time. That is the international market for CBD. Tim Schmidt, who is a very well-respected farmer—he's a beef farmer and he farms a lot of crops—said to the audience in Launceston that CBD is not a dangerous product in any way, shape or form. Once you take the THC out of it, it has a lot of really good benefits. It was interesting also to hear Senator Roberts talking about that today.</para>
<para>This is a debate that's really important for Australians who need access to this product, and I think it's an enormous opportunity for innovation, research and development with the thousands of applications for cannabinoid products that we haven't really begun to understand yet. Of course, it's really important in a state like mine, Tasmania, where we can't necessarily complete on the world stage in commodity products like intensive cropping. It has even been difficult with vegetables in my home state, because we're a small island on the bottom of the world. High-value crops that can be grown in smaller plots, on smaller acreage, are the future for my state. It's where we've been able to leverage our reputation over the years. This is an enormous opportunity. I think a lot of people in this place would like to see this kind of <inline font-style="italic">Reefer Madness</inline> attitude change and us give suffering Australians what they need.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't think that anyone could accuse Senator Whish-Wilson of being grumpy! On that, I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3169</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance Amendment (Income Thresholds) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3169</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6705" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Amendment (Income Thresholds) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3169</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the Private Health Insurance Amendment (Income Thresholds) Bill 2021 and has not sought to delay its passage through the parliament. Unfortunately, the government failed to meet their own 1 April deadline for the passage of this bill and now Australians have been left waiting for the important reform. Labor understands the frustrations of families who were promised a 1 April start date for extended health insurance coverage for young and disabled dependants. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3170</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I shall call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Portability Extensions) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3170</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6722" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services Legislation Amendment (Portability Extensions) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>3170</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3170</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991</inline> to provide greater flexibility in the portability rules for pensions to assist Australian pensioners who travel to or from Australia and are affected by unforeseeable circumstances beyond their control.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Normally, pensioners can travel overseas for an indefinite period and continue to receive their pension. However, after 26 weeks overseas, their rate of pension is recalculated based on their Australian Working Life Residence (AWLR). Generally, 35 years AWLR is required to maintain the full basic rate of pension. After 26 weeks, those who have less than 35 years AWLR will receive a proportional rate based on their AWLR. Supplements, such as Rent Assistance, also cease after 26 weeks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently there is no discretion in the legislation to extend this 26 week period if a pensioner goes overseas and is unable, due to reasons beyond their control, to return home as planned.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will provide a permanent discretionary power to grant pensioners a portability extension if they are temporarily overseas and affected by emergency circumstances, such as accident, illness, natural disaster or public health crisis. This extension ensures their rate is not reduced after 26 weeks.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed changes will also allow pensioners grandfathered under previous portability changes in 2000 and 2014 to apply for a portability extension if they ordinarily live overseas but temporarily return to Australia and are unable to return home due unforeseen emergency circumstances. The extension ensures they can maintain their grandfathered portability entitlements.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Last year, the Government introduced temporary arrangements to enable pensioners stuck overseas or in Australia due to COVID-19 to be granted portability extensions. This Bill builds on these arrangements by maintaining the discretion to provide extensions and expanding the range of allowable circumstances in which an extension can be granted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will also benefit those pensioners each year who travel overseas temporarily and subsequently are away from home due to unforeseen emergency circumstances beyond their control, such as accident, illness, natural disaster or a future pandemic.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports this bill. Pensioners have worked hard and contributed all their lives. They deserve our respect. The age pension is a proud Labor legacy. Labor will always work to strengthen and improve the pension. Over the past eight years the government has sought to cut the pension and Labor has fought the government's pension cuts tooth and nail. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3171</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No amendments have been circulated. Does any senator require a committee stage? If not, I call the minister to move the third reading.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3171</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <a href="r6687" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3171</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021 ensures that a number of nationally significant sites in the Sydney Harbour area will remain publicly owned and managed by the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust. The legislation will enable the Harbour Trust to operate as an ongoing entity, as a Commonwealth statutory authority. This is key to ensuring that the assets of the trust, the 11 sites of historical, environmental and Indigenous cultural significance, remain under the control of the Commonwealth in perpetuity. Preserving the sites is in the public interest. They hold stories of our past, however dark at times, and our nation's cultural, industrial and military history.</para>
<para>The bill also updates long-term lease and licence provisions to maintain strong controls of trust lands, consistent with community feedback on the need to protect these lands from detrimental commercial interests and ensure continued public access is guaranteed. We are pleased that the government has agreed to our suggestion regarding community consultation on any proposed leases of longer duration. Any further activities proposed for trust sites, including commercial, must be compliant with the act's objectives of public access and amenity. Across all 11 sites, the trust welcomes 1.8 million visitors each and every year.</para>
<para>The bill also revises eligibility requirements for Harbour Trust board appointments. This measure will help ensure members are suitably skilled in forward planning and local government engagement and encourage First Nations representation. Updating the threshold above which ministerial approval of contracts is required will assist the trust in making operational decisions in a timely manner.</para>
<para>Labor will always stand to protect Australia's natural heritage. We also recognise the need for greater understanding and recognition of the very significant First Nations cultural heritage across the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust estate. As my colleague the member for Fremantle said in the other place:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Labor supports the imperative to deliver greater emphasis and recognition of the very significant First Nations cultural heritage contained in the site.</para></quote>
<para>We urge the trust to make this a priority going forward.</para>
<para>The members for Sydney and Grayndler have been strong advocates for proper Commonwealth protection and management of these sites. It was only in 2020 that the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust turned down a proposal to privatise Cockatoo Island, a UNESCO World Heritage site. The plan would have required a grant for a whole-of-island lease. As Labor leader Anthony Albanese said of the proposal:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Sydney Harbour is a national asset … a precious resource, not a plaything for corporate interests.</para></quote>
<para>The work of Tom Uren, sometimes called the father of Sydney Harbour, is evident in the establishment of the Australian Heritage Commission and in his dedication to extending and preserving public access to the foreshores of Sydney Harbour. Mr Uren, a former federal Labor deputy leader and the Minister for Urban and Regional Development in the Whitlam government, spoke often of the value of our world renowned harbour:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is such a gentleness about Sydney Harbour, such a softness. There are important parts in the river systems that surround our Sydney that are still in near pristine state. It hurts you when you see the scars inflicted by insensitive developers. The harbour is more than a jewel—it is Sydney's heart.</para></quote>
<para>We recognise Tom's vision and his contribution to the conservation of the Sydney Harbour foreshore. He was a tireless campaigner and advocate for the preservation of these beautiful areas so that they may be available to all residents and visitors.</para>
<para>Labor support the purpose of this legislation. We will look out for funding announcements or a plan from the government to address the shortfall between the $40.6 million in the 2020 budget and the $164 million value of outstanding restoration works on trust sites. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to briefly speak on the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021. The bill will implement various recommendations of the review of the Sydney Harbour Federation Trust conducted in 2019. The central finding of the review was that the trust should become an ongoing entity, retaining responsibility for the sites. This bill does give effect to this.</para>
<para>Let's start at first principles here. The lands around Sydney Harbour under the care and oversight of the trust are public lands which should be fully accessible to the people of Sydney and those who live around the country. They are lands with many thousands of years of First Nations custodianship and care.</para>
<para>For so many thousands of migrants to Australia, the harbour foreshore is the first thing that they see when their flight descends to land at Kingsford Smith airport. Indeed, that's the first thing that I saw when my flight landed at Kingsford Smith airport in 1992. Of course, the lands have unmatched natural beauty and historical significance. There's no room here for privatisation and sell-offs of priceless public land. The community, over the decades, has fought hard against privatisation and for the preservation of the environment and heritage, especially First Nations cultural heritage, around the harbour.</para>
<para>With that in mind, I raise my concerns about the trust's recently published draft concept vision for Cockatoo Island. While there's certainly scope for rethinking how Cockatoo Island can best be revitalised and used for the future, any move towards activities such as new retail precincts and hotels must be seriously interrogated and carefully considered. We must reject privatisation by stealth.</para>
<para>I understand this bill's drafting was done in consultation with key community and advocacy organisations, including the Headland Preservation Group, and constructive work was completed to ensure that the group's concerns were met, particularly with regard to the leasing provisions. Parliamentary oversight will be retained for longer term leases, and leases will be completely capped at 35 years. The Greens support the bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BRAGG</name>
    <name.id>256063</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Sydney Harbour Federation Trust Amendment Bill 2021 is a good bill and a bill which means a lot to the people of Sydney, particularly those who live around the magnificent Sydney Harbour. Sydney Harbour would probably have the world's most recognisable shoreline; certainly in this country it would be amongst the very best of our natural assets.</para>
<para>The harbour trust itself was an election commitment from the Howard years, back in the 1998 campaign, when the Howard government committed itself to return—and I'm paraphrasing here from the statement in 1988—the Sydney Harbour foreshore defence sites to the people of Australia in order to protect the national heritage values of these sites. The Howard government initially provided a $90 million contribution from the former Federation Fund, which established this trust. It was established as a transitional body designed to protect and preserve the former defence lands which are scattered around Sydney Harbour. We have just been living, in the last 18 months, through a serious pandemic. During the last serious pandemic we had, which was broadly known as the Spanish flu, about 100 years ago, there was a quarantine station set up at Manly which is still used today, although not for its original purpose. It is on magnificent, pristine land up at North Head.</para>
<para>The sites, as I said, are scattered around Sydney. We protected and preserved them in the initial legislation back at the beginning of the century. The trust has been extended as a transitional body again and again through various acts of this parliament. Minister Sussan Ley commissioned a review about 18 months ago to have a look at the appropriateness of the trust. The review recommended, on the basis of significant community input, that the trust be established as a permanent, ongoing entity and arrangement. That's the central point here—that we're committed to preserving these sites not just because they're beautiful but because they give the public access. They provide public access to sites which are not available anywhere else in the world—North Head, Middle Head, Platypus and so on and so forth. So that was one of the central recommendations of the review.</para>
<para>There was a lot of scaremongering at the time from various people, including the member for Warringah, saying it was the end of the world that we were doing a review. But we decided it was the right thing to do to have a look at the structure that was there. The review recommended a permanent solution, and that is what the government's policy is.</para>
<para>I also put in a submission to that review, in consultation with the community. The community here is really key. There is no question that these lands were preserved because of the actions taken by the executive government of the day, the Howard government, which were subsequently extended several times and are now made permanent by this government. But that is only one side of the story. Yes, there has been, to a large degree, bipartisan support. But the community here is at the heart. I have had the opportunity to be able to work with the Headland Preservation Group—with Jill L'Estrange and Julie Goodsir—and the community there and the committee. These people have gone above and beyond in representing the interests of their community by engaging deeply on these issues of how these unique sites can be preserved and protected from a military perspective, from an Indigenous perspective and from a community perspective. We wouldn't be here today without these community groups—without, in particular, the Headland Preservation Group, which continues to do a great body of work not only on advocacy but also in providing volunteers to maintain the sites. There are hundreds of volunteers who work on the trust lands and keep the trust lands beautiful and viable.</para>
<para>Apart from establishing the trust in perpetuity, this bill also ensures that there is a clearer governance framework. It sets out that the trust lands will be maintained by the Commonwealth. They must be held in public hands. But we're also striving to improve the board and the governance and the functions.</para>
<para>There has been a lot of discussion about leasing, and I hear the comments around the chamber that a long-term lease could be a de facto way of privatising public lands. That is a concern that has been shared by the Morrison government, and what we have tried to do with this bill is draw a line in the sand about long-term leases. So the trust can conduct leases up to 25 years under this legislation, which has bipartisan support. If there is a desire to have a longer-term lease, out to 35 years, then that can be done, but it can only be done under a legal instrument which is disallowable and after there's been extensive community consultation. Again, that is at the heart of this. We wouldn't be here without the community advocacy, so we must always ensure that, if there are to be leases longer than 25 years that are desired by the trust and the community groups, there is an extensive process that also results in those legal arrangements being subject to disallowance.</para>
<para>The bill also states very clearly that you cannot have a lease longer than 35 years. The case in which you might find a lease that is longer than 25 years may well be where there is a need to get more private capital to rehabilitate a site on the trust lands. We are also putting our hands in our pockets, as we did in the last budget, to help remediate some of these former Defence lands. In the last budget, we committed $40 million to help remediate. But there is more work that needs to be done on all these sites, so there is money in the budget to keep on looking at the plans that are required to be delivered with community consent.</para>
<para>In summary, this is a very important piece of law—or will be, I hope, a very important piece of law—for the people of Sydney, the people of New South Wales and the people of Australia. When people think about Australia, they think about these sites, and we are ensuring that these sites will be in public hands for ever and ever. That is a great win for the community, and I want to thank again all the community advocates who have spent an enormous amount of time not only on public advocacy but in preservation and grassroots conservation.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>3175</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>264449</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Online Safety Bill 2021, Online Safety (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Bill 2021</title>
          <page.no>3175</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body background="" style="" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:WX="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships">
            <p>
              <a href="r6680" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Online Safety Bill 2021</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6681" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Online Safety (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Bill 2021</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3175</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to highlight in particular the concerns that the Greens have heard from the LGBTIQ+ community about the Online Safety Bill 2021 and the related bill. As my colleagues have said, the Greens support the intent of these bills to protect the safety of people online, particularly women and children. But, as my colleagues have also said, we do not believe these bills are a well-designed suite of measures to address this serious issue. Given the rush in the development of these bills, that's probably not a surprise.</para>
<para>So the Greens will move amendments to address the flaws that we and many of the organisations that we've spoken to have identified. The excellent submission by the Victorian Pride Lobby to the Senate inquiry on the bills outlined their concerns about the Online Safety Bill as it stands. It has the potential to have very significant adverse effects on the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, gender-diverse, intersex and queer communities. Their submission said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The objects of the Bill are "to improve online safety for Australians" and "to promote online safety for Australians." Censorship of consensual adult material does not improve online safety for Australians. The online content scheme in Part 9 of the Bill appears to be an attempt to implement a classification-based censorship scheme, which is incongruous with the Bill's objectives and entirely unrelated to protecting Australians from online abuse.…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We applaud the work of the eSafety Commissioner in providing online safety advice and support for the LGBTIQ+ community, including being out online and dealing with image-based abuse. In this regard, it should be noted that the United States Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation is developing a Social Media Safety Index to rate social media companies on how well they protect LGBTQ people from abuse. Whilst we strongly support reforms to improve and promote online safety, on the basis of the foregoing, we recommend that Part 9 of the Bill be deleted in its entirety. The issues raised herein should be addressed through the ongoing Review of Australian Classification Regulation.</para></quote>
<para>Similarly, an article in Junkee summarised a set of key concerns for the queer communities. That article said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The trouble is whether content is "likely to cause offence to a reasonable adult".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That's pretty subjective and you can see how it favours majority groups. When asked, Communications Minister Paul Fletcher singled out fetishes like bondage, fisting and watersports as offensive. Not everyone's cup of tea, sure, but two guesses which community he has in mind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The commissioner's broad powers and the Bill's regressive definition of "adult content" put LGBTQ rights and visibility at enormous risk of coordinated attacks. In a country prone to moral panics about anti-bullying programs and trans kids, this is hardly speculative.</para></quote>
<para>Given some of the transphobic and homophobic motions that we've seen from One Nation senators and others, supported by many in this government, we share those profound concerns. The article continues:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The current eSafety commissioner has said that she won't use these powers to persecute sex workers (and, one would hope, queer people). However, it doesn't really matter what she plans to do; the point is that they don't need these powers in the first place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It's dangerous to make laws as if they'll only ever be used by people currently in office. A future administration could appoint an anti-sex work crusader or career homophobe who would use these powers with malicious intent at any time.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From competent lawmakers, we'd expect to see safeguards, sunset clauses and built-in appeals processes. Instead, we've seen a sweeping set of powers rushed into Parliament a week after consultation closed, ignoring many of the 370 public submissions.</para></quote>
<para>There's another interrelated significant suite of concerns, and that's the impact of this legislation on sex workers, particularly those who are working online. As the Victorian Pride Lobby said in their submission:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The effect of these provisions is that any sexually explicit content will be subject to unilateral removal from Australian internet hosting service providers. This unfairly and unreasonably targets legal and consensual media for arbitrary removal. If taken to its logical conclusion, the Bill will attempt to censor any online media depicting any sexual activity between consenting adults.</para></quote>
<para>Similarly, the submission from Scarlet Alliance commended some aspects of the bill but said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We have significant concerns, however, with the way the Bill frames online harm and safety, and with the way it fails to consider the impact of action taken under the Bill on sex worker safety, both online and in real life. We urge consideration of the 'chilling effect' likely to result from the intersection of the Online Content Scheme and the Basic Online Safety Expectations, for which there is already significant precedent in similar legislation (FOSTA-SESTA) in the United States.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By positioning all sexual content as potentially damaging to and giving the eSafety Commissioner power to investigate at will and issue notices as they 'think fit', the Bill fails to differentiate between actual harm and a subjective, moralistic construction of harm. The Bill does not define harm itself, nor does it create a provable threshold of harm that can be used in the Commissioner's decision-making processes. In concentrating power in a single un-elected office, it silos power and control over perceiving and acting upon harm in a way that lacks transparency or accountability to the Australian public or connection to the intersectional Australian community.</para></quote>
<para>These are really serious issues. It is because of these serious issues, particularly as I've outlined here, and the really significant impacts on the LGBTIQ community and the sex worker community that my colleague Senator McKim has moved a second reading amendment calling for the bills to be withdrawn, reconsidered and redrafted.</para>
<para>We will also be moving other amendments to address concerns, including inserting a review process and changes that would reduce the risk of consensual sexually explicit content being removed. These include major amendments to part 9 of the bill, which is where the online content scheme and classification code are set out. These include measures that would prevent unintended consequences that would adversely affect advertising of legitimate and lawful sex services and products and sexual health programs and providers. The other significant area of concern that we have, as has been referenced in the excerpts from the submissions that I've read out that our Greens amendments are going to address, is the far-reaching powers of the eSafety Commissioner, which effectively gives them the power to act as Australia's chief censor.</para>
<para>I want to be really clear on the record here: the Greens support the intent of this bill. We support the intent of a bill to create online safety for Australians. It is absolutely undeniable that this is a serious issue and it needs to be addressed. But this bill, in the way it is currently drafted, has incredibly serious flaws that are going to have major unintended consequences on rafts of people, but particularly, as I've outlined today, on LGBTIQ people and on sex workers. As the Greens LGBTI spokesperson, I want to say that we hear the concerns of those communities about this bill and we share them. We do not support these bills in their current form because of these issues, and we look forward to receiving support for our very sensible amendments, which would address these hopefully unintended consequences and would enable the intent of the bill to improve online safety for Australians to be achieved without these significant adverse and unintended consequences.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WALSH</name>
    <name.id>252157</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Online Safety Bill 2021 and the Online Safety (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Bill 2021. Labor supports measures to consolidate and strengthen online safety laws for Australians. This is an area of bipartisanship, and Labor has engaged constructively with the government to address concerns with the Online Safety Bill. This bill seeks to create a new online safety framework for Australians. By consolidating various online safety laws and introducing some new changes, this bill will create a modern regulatory framework that builds on the existing online safety scheme and ensures that these laws are kept up to date. This bill will retain and replicate provisions in the Enhancing Online Safety Act 2015 that are working well to protect Australians from online harms such as the non-consensual sharing of intimate images scheme. It will also replace the content schemes in schedules 5 and 7 of the Broadcasting Services Act 1992 to address harmful content such as refused classification material.</para>
<para>Labor supports the new elements of the online safety scheme that this bill seeks to establish. We know the devastating impact that online abuse and bullying can have. We know the harm that is caused by inappropriate and graphic material being shared online. Labor supports the articulation of a core set of basic online safety expectations and the creation of a new complaints based removal notice scheme for cyberabuse when it is perpetrated against an Australian adult. However, we do have a number of concerns with this bill, which Labor shares with stakeholders, regarding consultation, transparency and review mechanisms. While some necessary amendments have been made, the government's delays have risked undermining confidence in what is, of course, very important work.</para>
<para>It has been over 2½ years since the Briggs review recommended a single up-to-date online safety act. Let's look at what has happened since the Briggs review. It was back in October 2018 that Lynelle Briggs handed down the review of the Australia's online safety laws. In May 2019, during the election, the government made its first promise to introduce a new online safety act. In July 2019, the minister stood up in question time and again promised that an online safety act was coming. In September 2019, in response to Labor's questions about online hate speech, racism and the rise of right-wing extremism in Australia following the Christchurch terrorist attack, the minister stood up in this parliament and yet again promised that a new online safety act was coming. In December 2019, there was another announcement, another promise, that an online safety act was coming. In September 2020, when asked about what they were doing to curb graphic content on social media in the wake of a self-harm video on Facebook and TikTok, they stood up again and promised a new online safety act. In October 2020, this time in an op-ed in the west, there was another promise that an online safety act was on the way. Then in December 2020, just two days before Christmas, this government finally released their exposure draft, with the consultation process ending only eight business days before they tabled the bill in the parliament.</para>
<para>The government is asking us to believe that it took two years to draft a bill but only eight days to read and consider 376 submissions. This short time frame at the end of a long drawn-out process has undermined confidence in the government's exposure draft, and stakeholders are therefore rightly concerned that submissions have not been given proper consideration. The department confirmed that, from 376 submissions, they had identified 56 issues that warranted further consideration. From those 56 issues, only seven amendments have been made. So the government has spent years talking about this bill just to rush through the work at the last minute.</para>
<para>This government has spent the last 2½ years talking about the importance of keeping women and children safe online, but how can this government claim to care about creating a safe space online? How can this government claim to care about women's safety while they allow the member for Bowman, Andrew Laming, to remain in their party room, while they allow the member for Bowman to remain as chair of a parliamentary committee, with the support of the Liberal National Party? The member for Bowman has a history of trolling and abusing his own constituents on Facebook. So, while we discuss the importance of online safety in this chamber today, the government sit here and in the other place turning a blind eye to one of their own who, in his own words, engages in trolling on Facebook, who in his own words has undermined the safety and the mental health of at least one woman in his own electorate. In estimates last month—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Walsh. You'll be in continuation when debate resumes.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>3179</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>3179</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp></time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I asked you whether this is the first time that you have been advised this.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm saying that we received this advice today, Senator:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For those aged 60 years and above, the individual benefits of receiving a COVID-19 vaccine are greater than in younger people.</para></quote>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Colbeck. I have Senator Wong on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for reading out what is on the public record. The question we actually asked was whether or not this was the first time the government had been advised in any form that the AstraZeneca vaccine was not the preferred COVID-19 vaccine for those Australians under the age of 60.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, I've allowed you to restate and reemphasise the question. While the minister is specifically talking about such advice—and he did talk about the day on which it was received—to instruct him any more strictly would go to how to answer a question, which I cannot do. If the minister is sticking to the advice and the timing of it, then I believe that is directly relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My understanding, my advice, is that this advice was received and decided at a meeting of ATAGI this morning. So we received this advice today. We have at all times, through the duration of this pandemic, followed the health advice and we've taken action once we have received that advice. This correspondence came to the health minister from ATAGI today. As I understand it, very soon after that advice being received, the minister made his public statements with respect to that advice.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Will the minister guarantee that the Australian government will have sufficient supplies of other vaccines to ensure all Australians who want a vaccine will be able to get a vaccine by the end of this year?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Wong for the question. Minister Hunt has confirmed this afternoon at his press conference, and I'm happy to confirm, that our objective remains to make it available to every Australian—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That every Australian who wants access to a vaccine will have access to that vaccine by the end of this year. That's been our statement all along. That was confirmed by Minister Hunt this morning and was also confirmed by Lieutenant General Frewen, who is also assisting with the vaccine rollout. We have significant supplies of vaccine coming into this country, and the objective remains that every Australian who wants a vaccine will have access to one by the end of this year.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I refer to reports that Pfizer approached the government 12 months ago, offering Australia the opportunity to be among the first nations in the world to have access to the Pfizer vaccine. Is that right? Why did the Morrison government fail to secure an early agreement for Pfizer vaccines when it had the chance?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The advice I have is that Pfizer has at all times met the agreed delivery arrangements that they have provided to us, and we consequently have real confidence in the projected deliveries they are proposing to provide us through to the end of the year. I don't have any further information with respect to the reports that Senator Wong refers to. I'm happy to take that on notice and come back to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>3181</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Birmingham. Can the minister inform the Senate on how the Morrison government's economic recovery plan is working to create more jobs and strengthen Australia's economy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Henderson for that question. She is a strong champion of small businesses across Australia and is, I know, deeply concerned to ensure the security of employment opportunities for all Australians.</para>
<para>Against a backdrop of enormous global uncertainty—the first global pandemic in 100 years and, indeed, the greatest economic shock to the world since the Great Depression—our government has sought at every juncture to ensure the economic security of Australia, and Australians, and its economic recovery from the shock of COVID-19. Our budgets handed down last year and this year framed the direction for our economic recovery plans, to make sure that we kept as many Australian businesses as strong as possible, that we kept as many Australians in work as possible and that we continued to grow employment opportunities wherever possible.</para>
<para>In the face of these enormous global uncertainties it is pleasing to see the strength across the Australian economy. Australia's economy today is now larger than it was going into the pandemic. This is a feat that no other major advanced economy has achieved to date—to have recovered their economy to a bigger size than it was pre-pandemic. Over the last three quarters we've seen some growth of 8.7 per cent—the strongest growth in Australia in more than half a century. And today we have seen the dividend that that creates for Australian workers, with the unemployment rate falling to 5.1 per cent in May. There are now fewer unemployed persons in Australia than there were prior to the pandemic. We have seen jobs growth of 115,000 people for the month—well above expectations—demonstrating that across Australia the economic recovery is going strongly and creating opportunities for Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline some of the key job-creating measures that underpin the government's economic recovery plan?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the last budget we announced our plan to get more people back into work. Budget projections show 250,000 further jobs to be created, and that plan is working. It's working strongly. It's underpinned by policies that drive investment by the private sector across the Australian economy. Our full expensing measures are all about encouraging Australian businesses to invest in their competitiveness, their productivity, and creating jobs for Australians across those sectors. And it's paying dividends.</para>
<para>We have equally, of course, put money back in the pockets of hardworking Australians and their families by bringing forward income tax cuts and by providing the financial support for families to be empowered, to make their own decisions and to get and keep more from their hard work. On this side of the chamber we are resolutely committed to lower taxes as a continued driving vehicle for economic growth, for business investment and to support Australian families. It's a stark contrast to the uncertainty on taxes of those opposite. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Henderson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HENDERSON</name>
    <name.id>ZN4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, can you outline how the government's commitment to reducing taxes is creating more jobs and is strengthening Australia's economy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're providing 10 million low- and middle-income earners with additional taxation relief to help with the economic recovery, to help create the support across the Australian economy to keep this jobs growth going. With the jobs growth we're seeing and the unemployment rates that have been achieved, it's little wonder there's a fair bit of silence from those opposite, because, of course, we can all recall the mayhem and catastrophe, the doomsday predictions, that were coming from those opposite. The doomsday predictions of those who said that millions more would find themselves unemployed, that millions more would be in difficulty. Those opposite had no faith in Australia, Australian businesses, Australians or the economic plans that have been proven to work—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Economic plans that have been proven to work, Senator Wong! I know it breaks your heart to see record numbers of Australians in jobs, but we are proud to have record numbers of Australians in jobs and to have the Australian economy coming back so strongly. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment</title>
          <page.no>3182</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Drought and Emergency Management, Senator Ruston. In recent days, the Morrison government has announced significant changes to the working holiday maker scheme and arrangements for foreign workers. The United Kingdom's Department for International Trade has published a glossy document boasting that 'Aussie firms will no longer have to prioritise hiring Australian nationals first'. Why is the Morrison government taking jobs away from Australians and giving them to UK citizens?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Sheldon for his question. Given the information that has just been provided to the chamber by Senator Birmingham, I think we should all be delighting in the fact that we are seeing more Australians back in work than before the pandemic. And we should all be celebrating the fact that we have an unemployment rate of 5.1 per cent today. Who would have thought, when we went into the pandemic, that the economic recovery in this country was going to be so strong as to see 5.1 per cent unemployment in Australia? In the home state of Senator Cash, who's sitting next to me, it's down to 4.4 per cent, which is getting very, very close to full employment.</para>
<para>Making sure that we provide a balance, and ensuring that Australians who wish to get into the workforce are able to take that opportunity, is a very important platform of the Morrison-McCormack government's economic policy. We want to see every single Australian who is able to work, in work. That's why we have put in place so many programs, particularly in recent times as we come out of the COVID pandemic. Through JobMaker we've got skilling and retraining programs to make sure that Australians who find themselves without work have a pathway back into the workforce. But we also hear—on the other side of the equation—that there are businesses that are struggling to get employees, and we need to make sure that we provide them with a pool of resources so that they can get workers. That in no way denies that our absolute fundamental policy position of this government is to make sure that Australians who are unemployed—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Keneally, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Keneally</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question of relevance—the question was quite specific from Senator Sheldon. The British government has said that Aussie firms will no longer have to prioritise hiring Australian nationals first. The minister hasn't addressed the question: why is the government giving away Australian jobs?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Keneally, the latter part of your point of order there means that while the minister is talking about the matters that she is, it is quite a wide-ranging part of the question at the end of what Senator Sheldon asked. I think while the minister is talking about—Senator Wong?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Could you clarify, Mr President, which is the wide-ranging bit?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Why is the Morrison government taking jobs away from Australians and giving them to UK citizens? It is clearly about one issue.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister is talking about prioritising jobs for Australians. I'll just finish my explanation and people can take issue with it. I view that question as giving the minister some latitude to answer and to challenge it, and to explain why they are doing the opposite. As long as it's not a general commentary on the unemployment or employment market—if the minister is talking about why they disagree with that question, or talking about prioritising in government policy, I think that's relevant. Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Mr President. The Australian government will always prioritise jobs for Australians. We will always prioritise jobs for Australians. We want to make sure that every Australian who wishes to have a job is able—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Keneally.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Keneally</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to table the <inline font-style="italic">Ten key benefits of the UK-Australia Free Trade Agreement</inline> where it clearly says, 'Aussie firms will no longer have to prioritise hiring Australians first'—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Birmingham, you are on your feet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I was just going to respond. Senator Keneally well knows the protocols and etiquettes in relation to tabling documents in this place. If she wishes to follow those protocols then the government will look at it in accordance with those protocols rather than seeking—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Keneally interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You have sought leave; you haven't shared the document with the government to my knowledge. You're waving a document around that the government has not seen. You know the protocols. If we you were doing the same, you would deny leave.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The clerk has advised me that one can't interrupt a speaker to seek leave to table. I was not aware of that particular procedure. Senator Wong, to your point, I can only deal with—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Oh, please do. Sorry, I thought I was dealing with—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I hadn't actually stood to make a point again. My point is, if you read it that broadly, Mr President, with all due respect, the minister can do precisely what she is doing, which is to engage in motherhood statements. 'We all will prioritise Australian jobs.' It's unsurprising that you are then going to get a response from the opposition seeking to table documents. Direct relevance means dealing with the issue at hand. Just because something says 'jobs', it doesn't mean a minister can stand up and answer a question by saying, 'We all love jobs.'</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I'm happy to rule. I've taken submissions. I'm not complaining about the opposition objecting to the nature of a question, Senator Wong. I've allowed the opposition to restate and to emphasise the part of the question and to take points of order. I was just pointing out to Senator Keneally that I was corrected by the clerk. I wasn't aware that you couldn't interrupt to seek leave. That was something I learnt. When it comes to the point of order, I can only deal with questions the way that they are asked. I submit, Senator Wong, that you are asking me to go to the content of a minister's answer and how they might answer a question rather than whether they are directly relevant. When a question is 'why is the government'—if I read it correctly—'taking away jobs from Australians in favour of someone else' the minister is entitled to say otherwise, as long as it's not a general commentary on unemployment or employment. I think when the minister was talking about that bit, when the point of order was raised, that constitutes direct relevance. There is an opportunity to debate the content and answers after question time and whether or not the chamber thinks the content of those answers is sufficient or satisfactory. Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much. To be directly relevant to Senator Sheldon's question, the Australian government will always prioritise Australian jobs—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Your point of order—you are seeking leave?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Keneally</name>
    <name.id>LNW</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to table the document from the United Kingdom government that I have just cited here in the chamber that says, 'Aussie firms will no longer have to prioritise hiring Aussie nationals first.'</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Yesterday when announcing the new agriculture visa, Minister Littleproud said: 'I'll mirror the existing Seasonal Worker Program. It is really an extension of the working holiday scheme.' Given these are entirely different standards and requirements between these programs, which is it?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, both of the programs to which Senator Sheldon refers are very, very important programs to support Australia's agricultural sector. In announcing yesterday the agreement that we're putting in place with our ASEAN friends, to make sure that we are able to support Australian farmers, who are often looking for labour and unable to fill their labour shortages in Australia, I think it is an exceptional initiative for us to be able to support people in our region but, at the same time, support our farmers, who are crying out for labour at the moment.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Mr President. The point of order is on direct relevance. The question goes directly to whether or not this new agricultural visa will mirror the Seasonal Worker Program or extend the working holiday scheme. They are different schemes with different conditions. We have not asked about those existing schemes. We've asked, as to the new scheme: which architecture will it follow? So I would ask you to remind the minister that she is not being asked to give us an explanation of why the SWP or the working holiday visa are such great things. She's being asked to explain the new agricultural visa.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>And on that point: if I'm being asked to order the minister to go to explain the differences, I think that is going to the content of an answer. However, to be directly relevant—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me finish, please, Senator Wong. To be directly relevant, because it was a tightly-worded question, the minister must speak about the new scheme. But I can't direct the minister to answer about the content or the type of answer, which is when you're asking about differences. The minister can be directly relevant—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, Senator Wong, I'm listening very carefully. I will admit this is not an area of policy where I am as aware of the details as others in the chamber, but I am listening very carefully. I've allowed you to restate the question and I have made my ruling. Senator Ruston, you have 23 seconds remaining.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>My understanding is that the new scheme will work alongside both the Seasonal Worker Program and the working holiday makers and that the exact and specific details of the new scheme are currently being worked out.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm happy to come back to this chamber with more information around the exact details around the working of the—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! Order!</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Sheldon interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sheldon, if I could have a moment, please—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators on my left, we are wasting question time, which is traditionally a period for the non-government parties. I would not have been able to rule on a subsequent point of order then, because I could not hear Senator Ruston. So there is way too much noise in the chamber. Senator Sheldon, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SHELDON</name>
    <name.id>168275</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister confirm that, in recent days, the Morrison government has undermined Australian workers, undermined the Pacific Step-up and worsened the risk of worker exploitation in Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, we have not, Senator Sheldon.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We absolutely have not. What we have sought to do is to make sure that we support Australians, through a number of initiatives, who wish to get into work, but, at the same time, we also recognise that there are some sectors of the Australian economy that are crying out for workers at the moment and are unable to fill those particular positions within Australia. So what this government has sought to do is to have a suite of measures that support everybody in the Australian economy, whether it be Australians who find themselves out of work, and making sure that we provide them with the skills and the retraining so that they can get back into the workforce, but which, at the same time, support our farmers, who are crying out for labour. So what we will do is continue to make sure that we address all of the issues that our economy faces, going forward, and not just one of them, by making sure we support our businesses to make sure they've got employees and then support our Australians into work.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Watt interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Keneally interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Rennick interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Watt, Senator Keneally, Senator Rennick. Senator Rennick, Senator Watt: remember my rule about counting to 10 after your name is called?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>3187</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to Senator Ruston, acting for the resources minister. I've worked very hard to make this question very short and very straightforward.</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Stop the clock. Senator Whish-Wilson.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, do you accept the science that burning fossil fuels is a significant contributor to greenhouse gas emissions and that rising greenhouse gas emissions are linked to the warming of the world's oceans?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Whish-Wilson for his question. If you are asking me whether I'm a climate denier, Senator Whish-Wilson, no, I'm not. One thing that this government has always been absolutely clear about and remains absolutely committed to is making sure that we support Australians with reliable, affordable, dispatchable power. But, at the same time—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson on a point order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to stress how hard I worked to make this a very, very simple question. The point of order is on direct relevance. Saying you are not a climate denier is not answering the question. It was really a yes or no question. Mr President, I ask the minister to be relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just as you were trying to write a tight question, Senator Whish-Wilson, I was trying to hear the minister, but I couldn't, despite my numerous calls to order across the chamber. However, while I couldn't hear part of the minister's answer while I was calling the chamber to order, I can't accept your submission that I can direct the minister how to answer the question. I will listen carefully. You've reminded the minister of the question and I do so again.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I am more than happy to give you the government's policy as it relates to supporting Australians and supporting Australian industry and making sure we also are in a position where we can protect Australia's environment and take up our responsibility for the protection of the world environment as well. If you wish to ask things in relation to oceans, maybe you should consider asking your question of the Minister for the Environment.</para>
<para>What I will say about Australia's energy policy is that we are absolutely committed to meeting every single obligation we have—an obligation to the Australian public for reliable, affordable and dispatchable power, an obligation internationally to the targets that we—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With only 49 seconds to go, could I just ask the minister to answer my question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I do think that was a fair point of order on direct relevance, Senator Whish-Wilson. Senator Ruston, the question related to various concepts rather than government policies. So I take the opportunity to remind you that you can answer in a personal capacity or in a government capacity because the question did ask 'do you accept'. So, to that extent, it wasn't a broad question on government policy.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I think I did answer Senator Whish-Wilson's question in my first response immediately after him asking the question, and I will stand by that. I am not a climate denier. However, I also am a very strong believer in all of the policies that have put in place by the government of which I am a member to make sure that we meet our obligations and we support a future in this country and this world that makes sure that our environment is protected for our children and for their children.</para>
<para>But we as a government are not going to undertake those policies to the detriment of Australia, Australians or the Australian economy. We will make sure, in the process of going forward into a future that I think every Australian wants, that we will do— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take the fact you are not a climate denier as a yes to that question. Minister, do you also accept that scientists are linking the warming of our oceans to catastrophic changes and impacts we are seeing in our marine habitats, such as three mass coral bleachings on the Great Barrier Reef in the last five years, the loss of Tasmania's giant kelp forests, the vanishing of seagrass beds around the country and the loss of thousands of kilometres of mangrove habitat? Do you accept they are linked to climate change?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again, thank you very much, Senator Whish-Wilson, for your question. I can only answer the question as it relates to requesting me to provide you with my opinion, which I'm quite happy to do. I am not a climate denier and I believe that it is extraordinarily important that we make sure that we look after our environment.</para>
<para>But if you want to ask specific questions in relation to the environment—and many of the things that were in the substance of your question, Senator Whish-Wilson, related to very, very specific aspects of environmental policy—I do not represent the Minister for the Environment. However, I am more than happy to take on notice the questions that you have asked in relation to the environment and refer them to the environment minister to provide you with an answer to your questions.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I remind you that you're the minister for burning fossil fuels, which impacts the environment. Can you then explain to coastal communities, ocean lovers, tourism operators, surfers, divers and fishers right around the nation why you are responsible for releasing 80,000 square kilometres of new ocean acreage to oil and gas companies to explore for the exact same fossil fuels that are responsible for killing our oceans?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will just point out, Senator Whish-Wilson, that I am the minister in the Senate who represents the Minister for Resources, Water and Northern Australia, just to be absolutely correct about the title of the particular ministry to which you're directing this question.</para>
<para>Yesterday, I answered the question in relation to the opening up of a particular area of ocean between Victoria and Tasmania. But, once again, the independent assessment of the environmental impact of anything that occurs is undertaken by an independent organisation, NOPSEMA. I'm sure that you, Senator Whish-Wilson, would be very well aware of NOPSEMA's obligations under the act to make sure that they do not enable or allow exploration to be undertaken in a way that's detrimental to the environment in which it is being undertaken.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Whish-Wilson interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Whish-Wilson! Senator Patrick.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Security</title>
          <page.no>3189</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Attorney-General, and relates to whistleblowers. The Prosecution Policy of the Commonwealth provides a two-stage test that must be satisfied before a prosecution is commenced. There must be sufficient evidence to prosecute the case and it must be evident from the facts of the case and all of the surrounding circumstances that the prosecution would be in the public interest. When asked about the impact of the prosecution of Bernard Collaery and witness K on the relationship between Australia and East Timor at estimates, the acting CDPP said that it would be, 'a step beyond the scope of the matters that we normally consider'.</para>
<para>So it's clear that hasn't been considered properly. Attorney-General, can you please provide this chamber with an explanation as to why it is in the public interest to prosecute Bernard Collaery and witness K for calling out unlawful activity?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Patrick for the question. This matter is currently before the court. In fact it is in the court today, so I will be very cautious in the comments that I make to Senator Patrick.</para>
<para>Senator Patrick, you did ask questions at Senate estimates and you were provided with the responses that you have referred to. What I can now say in relation to your question is this: the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions considered the brief of evidence and made an independent decision that a prosecution was the appropriate course of action in relation to this case. As you have stated, this was done in accordance with the Prosecution Policy of the Commonwealth that requires the CDPP be satisfied that the prosecution would be in the public interest.</para>
<para>Mr Collaery was charged with an offence of conspiracy to communicate Australian Secret Intelligence Service information, contrary to section 11.5 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 and section 39 of the Intelligence Services Act 2001, with further offences of communicating Australian Secret Intelligence Service information, contrary to section 39 of the Intelligence Services Act 2001. You would also be aware that witness K has been charged with an offence of conspiracy to communicate Australian Secret Intelligence Service information, contrary to section 11.5 of the Criminal Code Act 1995 and section 39 of the Intelligence Services Act 2001.</para>
<para>As I said, this is an independent decision that the CDPP made in terms of— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand witness K has actually pleaded guilty in the ACT Magistrates Court to conspiring to reveal classified information. Clearly the government has worn witness K down over the years—including the removal of his passport in 2013 so that he could not leave this country. He of course took that matter to the AAT. What's the current status of his passport? Will he have his passport returned to him?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In the first instance, Senator Patrick, you have provided commentary in relation to this matter. That is merely your commentary. The government does not agree with what you've stated. In relation to the issue of the passport, that is a matter, Mr President, more appropriately dealt with by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, and my understanding is that they would not normally comment on the status of a person's or an Australian's passport.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So we've got the government prosecuting whistleblower David McBride after he revealed war crimes in Afghanistan, which of course have been the subject of the Brereton report. There's no question what he claimed did occur. We also know of Richard Boyle, who called out the improper use of garnishee notices. He blew the whistle and he is being prosecuted. What is the public interest in prosecuting these whistleblowers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I have already stated in my answer to Senator Patrick's first question, these matters are all currently before the court. What I will say, though, in relation to the two further matters that Senator Patrick has raised is that the prosecutions, as you are aware Senator Patrick—you asked questions at estimates—have been brought because the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions made an independent decision that the prosecutions are in accordance with the Prosecution Policy of the Commonwealth.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Employment</title>
          <page.no>3190</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Employment, Workforce, Skills, Small and Family Business, my fellow senator from WA, Senator Cash. Can the minister please update the Senate on the state of the labour market following today's ABS labour force figures and how the Morrison government's 2021 budget is securing Australia's economic recovery?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Brockman for the question. The labour force figures have been released by the Australian Bureau of Statistics today in relation to May 2021. What we have seen today is as follows: the unemployment rate has decreased to 5.1 per cent; the participation rate, colleagues, has actually increased to 66.2 per cent—so Australians are saying, 'I'm out there and I'm ready, willing and able to undertake work'; employment itself is now at a record high in Australia, at 13,125,100; the employment-to-population ratio has itself increased to 62.8 per cent; underemployment, which we often talk about in this chamber, has actually decreased to 7.4 per cent; and the monthly hours worked for May increased by 25 million hours.</para>
<para>What we saw in the release of the labour force statistics today was that employment in the month of May increased by 115,200. That exceeded all market expectations. There are now more than 13.1 million Australians in work. That is a record number of Australians in employment and, when you look at where we were 12 months ago, that is a good thing—that we can stand here 12 months later and say that we have a record number of Australians in employment. What it actually means is that the level of employment is now 130,300 above the pre-COVID level that was recorded in March 2020. In fact, it's now 987,200 or 8.1 per cent higher than the trough in the labour market recorded in May 2020. Pleasingly, in terms of full-time job creation, the majority of jobs created in May were full-time jobs.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's an amazing testament to Australian businesses and Australian workers, Minister. Can the minister outline how the government is continuing to support our labour market to recover from the once-in-a-century economic impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, that is right. You are absolutely correct. It is a testament to all of the employers out there who are working with the government, looking at the government's policies, investing in the government's policies and creating more employment. As I was saying in answer to Senator Brockman's first question, in the month of May what we saw is that 97,500 of the jobs that were created were full-time jobs. That is a good thing, and it is all due to the employers out there taking on people, giving them those full-time jobs. In fact, in Australia now we have full-time employment at a record high—8,965,200 Australians. That is why as a government, and certainly in the budget that we recently brought down, we continue to put in place those policies that businesses in Australia can lever off to prosper, grow and, as we've seen today with the labour market figures for May, create more jobs for Australians.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to have a devastating impact around the world, can the minister explain why Australians can continue to have confidence in the resilience of our labour market and our economic recovery?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, when you look at where we were 12 months ago, and then you look at where we are today, Treasury was modelling at the height of COVID-19 that unemployment could potentially go to 15 per cent. Two million Australians could have been out of work. In May 2021, what we saw was a drop in the unemployment rate to 5.1 per cent. We are seeing an increase in the participation rate. We are seeing an increase in the number of full-time jobs that have been created and, again, we are seeing employers working with the government, utilising the government's policies that we have put in place to ensure that they are prospering, growing and creating more jobs for Australians. But we always acknowledge that people are still doing it tough out there. There are businesses that are still doing it tough, and that is why we continue to put in place those policies—for example, the instant asset write-off. For those businesses that do have the ability to invest, we are saying to them: invest in your business, grow your business and create more jobs for Australians.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>3192</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the minister for health, Senator Colbeck. Yesterday the Acting Premier of Victoria, James Merlino, said, 'Victorians have turned out in their thousands to get vaccinated, but we can't maintain this rate without certainty about supply from the Commonwealth.' Why has the Morrison government failed to give certainty of supply and forced the Victorian government to stop taking bookings for the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Ciccone for the question. The Australian government has, in fact, provided additional resources and vaccines to Victoria to assist them through their current circumstance. We've worked very closely with the Victorian government. We've supported them in vaccine supply. There are a significant number of additional vaccines that have been supplied to Victoria to assist them with the rollout, so I don't accept the premise of the question that's been put by Senator Ciccone that we are trying to starve Victorians of vaccine supply. In fact, we've worked very cooperatively to provide additional capacity and additional vaccines in the tens of thousands to Victorians so that they have additional supply to support Victorians who are looking for a vaccine.</para>
<para>The announcement today is also obviously going to create some further challenges with the changes in the advice that we received with respect to the Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines. We will follow that advice and we will continue to work with the states towards supporting them—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ciccone</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, on relevance: I don't want to repeat part of the question, but the quote that I had asked the minister about was directly from the Acting Premier about the lack of certainty about the supply from the Commonwealth. That was the Acting Premier's direct quote, and I ask him to address that part of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You've emphasised part of the question. I think, with respect, the minister was talking about the supply of vaccines to the state of Victoria, so I think he is directly relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We have worked very closely with Victoria to support them with supplies. We have provided additional Pfizer vaccines to Victoria to the tune of 150,930 over four weeks. We have provided them 170,000 doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine over six weeks. And we have provided an additional 330,000 AstraZeneca vaccines to our primary care clinics in Victoria, so that they can be assisted with the current issues they're dealing with. We will continue to work closely with the Victorian government and all the other states to ensure that they have the maximum available supplies to support people to get vaccinated as quickly as possible.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister confirm that at national cabinet the Commonwealth committed to ensuring supply of the second dose? Why has the government failed to meet this commitment?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thanks, Senator Ciccone, for the question. The Commonwealth government has given supply indications for vaccines out to each state over a considerable period of time. We continue to work with the states as those vaccine supplies are confirmed from our suppliers. We will continue to do that. We have given supply indications to each of the states, we have met those supply indications and we continue to work with the states in circumstances as we are working with Victoria right now to ensure that they have the maximum available supply that we can provide to them to support their vaccine rollout. There have been 150,000 additional Pfizer vaccines to Victoria over four weeks, 170,000 additional AstraZeneca vaccines to the Victorian state government over six weeks and over 330,000 additional doses to our primary care providers.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Ciccone, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CICCONE</name>
    <name.id>281503</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How many aged-care workers have been turned away from Victorian vaccination centres as a result of the Morrison government's failure to provide certainty of supply, as it promised at national cabinet?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator COLBECK</name>
    <name.id>00AOL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My advice from the Victorian government, from three sources, is that aged-care workers remain a priority category for vaccination in Victoria. That advice has been provided to me by three sources within the Victorian government. So I don't accept that workers don't have the vaccine available to them, because I've had it confirmed from three sources within the Victorian government that they remain a priority and that there still are bookings available for aged-care workers if they want to go and get a vaccine.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel</title>
          <page.no>3193</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Energy and Emissions Reduction, Senator Seselja. Given the importance of diesel to Territorians, particularly those in remote locations who rely on diesel to run power generation and critical machinery, can the minister outline to the Senate the importance of diesel to our economy and what action the Liberal-National government is taking to ensure we have an affordable and secure supply of diesel?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator McMahon for the question. The Liberal-National government is taking strong action to further boost Australia's long-term fuel security, and it is doing it by locking in the future of our refining sector. Our economy relies heavily on energy from liquid fuels, and this will continue to grow. Diesel is our most important transport fuel, and Australians use more diesel than electricity. It's also the critical fuel source during an emergency—powering the trucks that move our food, our pharmaceuticals and our emergency services vehicles. That's why we're increasing the amount of diesel we keep onshore. Holding more diesel in Australia will increase our resilience to supply disruptions, protecting consumers and the economy from fuel shortages.</para>
<para>We are investing $200 million through a competitive grants program to build new diesel storage. This is just part of our plan to ensure that Australians have access to the affordable, reliable and secure supply of fuel they rely on. We are ensuring we have access to the fuel we need to keep Australia moving. Our comprehensive fuel security package will also lock in around 4,000 jobs, construction jobs, and protect those at refineries. The Greens and Labor may not like it, but this will be done through a variable production payment, meaning the refineries will only be paid when they need it, not when they're making profits. Our package will also enhance Australia's national security and keep fuel prices for consumers among the lowest in the OECD.</para>
<para>The events of 2020 have reminded us that we can't be complacent. We're taking the action now to shield us from potential shocks in the future and to enhance our national security. Our plan will help ensure Australia has the appropriate sovereign capability it needs for any event. We're protecting families and businesses from higher prices and supporting thousands of jobs across the economy as we recover from COVID-19.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McMahon, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline how the government's fuel security package will help secure the diesel that we rely on?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can, and I thank the senator for the question. The Liberal-National government's fuel security package will help secure Australia's fuel stocks, through a minimum stockholding obligation that will protect our ability to produce vital fuels, like diesel, during an emergency. In a worst-case scenario, even if oil imports are disrupted, our refineries will have the ability to provide the fuel needed to run our critical services.</para>
<para>The minimum stockholding obligation will also safeguard levels of petrol and jet fuel, and from 2024 will see a 40 per cent increase in our diesel stocks to be kept in Australia. We know that this is the least distortionary way of working with the industry to improve supply-chain resilience and protect consumers. Delivering secure liquid fuels, such as diesel, goes hand-in-hand with ensuring Australian households and businesses have access to cheap and reliable power. All of these measures are critical to recovering from the pandemic, protecting jobs, growing our economy and keeping all Australians safe, including those in the Top End.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McMahon, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister outline how the government is working to build our sovereign fuel-refining and -storage capacity?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. This is about sovereignty. We have delivered on our promise and locked in Australia's refining capacity—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, across the chamber!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and its 1,250 employees.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Thorpe interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Thorpe!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Now, the Greens may not like it, but the Ampol refinery in Brisbane and the Viva Energy refinery in Geelong are both remaining in operation until at least mid-2027, and I note it has been warmly welcomed by the AWU. Supporting our refineries will ensure we have the sovereign capability needed to prepare for any event, protect families and businesses from higher prices at the bowser and keep Australians moving as we recover.</para>
<para>This is a key part of our plan to secure Australia's recovery from the pandemic and prepare against any future crises. This builds on the action we've already taken to boost our fuel security, taking advantage of record low global oil prices to purchase Australia's first government-owned crude-oil stocks for domestic security. We're taking action to ensure we have the fuel we need to keep Australia moving and to protect our— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, Minister for Government Services</title>
          <page.no>3195</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for the National Disability Insurance Scheme, Senator Reynolds. In defending her heartless failure to pick up the phone and personally apologise to the family of Liam Danher, after 78 days in the portfolio, the minister asserted, 'If my Chief of Staff does something on my behalf, then I consider that is the case.' Why won't the minister just pick up the phone and apologise to Liam's family?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for that question. In all of these circumstances—and, tragically, there is more than one case—my first and foremost consideration is to respect the wishes of the family. As I have previously advised this chamber, my office has contacted Mr Danher's family—his father, in fact—and offered a call or a meeting with me. It was agreed it would be best that this meeting take place once more information is available, and when that has occurred. The NDIA chief legal counsel is reviewing Liam Danher's case and will provide a report on the detail and any learnings that the NDIA can take from this case. The outcomes of that will be communicated to the family, prior to any public comment on this case.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Reynolds. Senator Kitching, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kitching</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, the question was very clear: why hasn't the minister picked up the phone and apologised to Liam's family?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With respect, I've allowed you to remind the minister of the question. The minister is entitled to answer the question in the terms that she sees fit. She is talking about this particularly unfortunate event, and, in that sense, she is directly relevant and answering the question as she deems appropriate. Senator Reynolds.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did answer the question first up, and I'll just say it again: first and foremost, I believe it's important for me to respect the wishes of the individual families, including Liam Danher's family. That is exactly what I'm doing in relation to this case and also to other cases that have come to my attention.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What other actions has the minister asserted were her own when in fact they were the actions of her chief of staff? And if she can't answer that all now she could take it on notice and come back to the chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the senator for her questions. As she knows, she has already put those questions on notice to me. Of course I will answer those in the normal course of events.</para>
<para>As I said yesterday, and as I've repeated again today, first and foremost it is important for me to respect the wishes of individual family members, and that is what I always do. I have talked directly to some family members where they have wished to do so, and when and how they wished to do so. Again, my chief of staff acted on my behalf—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kitching</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did give the minister an option that, if she couldn't remember everything that she had said that she did but in fact it was her chief of staff, she could come back and report to the chamber. But if she could give me some of that now it would be helpful.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With respect, the minister has concluded, but I think she did refer to questions on notice being answered as well. Senator Kitching?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kitching</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>She must have a very bad memory, Mr President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given that the actions of her staff are in fact her own, can the minister confirm that, rather than becoming aware of Ms Higgins' allegation of rape progressively over days, as she has claimed, in fact she became aware at the same time as her chief of staff became aware—that is, three days after the alleged rape on 26 March 2019?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would argue that that is not in any way a supplementary question in relation to the Danher case. But, as I have said in many forums—in this chamber and also at estimates—I am currently assisting the AFP with their inquiries into these matters. They are subject to the statement that I provided to the AFP and it would be entirely inappropriate for me to comment further.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Welfare Reform</title>
          <page.no>3197</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Families and Social Services, Senator Ruston. Can the minister please update the Senate on the rollout of the cashless debit card?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator O'Sullivan for his question. I also acknowledge the fantastic work that O'Sullivan has been doing to help—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Ruston, please resume your seat. I can't hear Senator Ruston, who is as close to me as any other senator in the chamber, physically—only a seat away. Can I please hear Senator Ruston's answer? Senator Ruston.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator O'Sullivan for the work that he is doing to make sure that people on the cashless debit card move along the pathway to employment. This is really important, because in his own words, the government does not believe that the cashless debit card is a destination; it is a tool to help people take control of their own lives, become job ready and get into work. Having a meaningful job is what we believe can be a destination for all working-age Australians.</para>
<para>Since 17 March, people on income management using the BasicsCard in the Northern Territory and Cape York have been able to make the switch to the CDC. I'm pleased to update the Senate that the transition in Cape York has now been completed, with all 88 people using the BasicsCard now across onto the cashless debit card.</para>
<para>The Families Responsibilities Commission does a fantastic job in Cape York to help their people stabilise their lives. I was fortunate enough to see some of the commission's hearings while I was there, where a lady in the community actually chose to go on to the cashless debit card, to have some of her social security payment quarantined so that she could pay for the maintenance of her home. In fact, she was one of 47 people in the cape who volunteered to go on the card. Those are people who are not required to be on it; they have done so voluntarily.</para>
<para>In the Northern Territory to date we've seen 108 people make the switch from the BasicsCard to the cashless debit card. While I was in Darwin I was fortunate enough to sit with somebody who went through the process at the Casuarina Service Centre. He told me that he wanted to make the switch because the CDC is a debit VISA card, which would allow him to pay his bills online and have more independence over the settings on his budget.</para>
<para>We will continue to work to ensure that people in the Northern Territory are armed with factual information about the cashless debit card.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister please explain how the cashless debit card is providing income management participants with more choice and freedom?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll call the minister to answer when I'll be able to hear her.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any ability to restrain oneself on the left of the chamber at the moment? Senator Rennick, please, as well. Senator Watt! Senator Ayres!</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The cashless debit card is a debit visa card, and it works just the same as any other key card in your purse or your wallet. The only distinction is that you cannot buy alcohol or most gambling products, or get cash. It can be used in over a million shops across Australia and can be used online, in comparison to the just 17,000 outlets which accept the BasicsCard. The cashless debit card, unlike the BasicsCard, can be used at pubs, clubs, restaurants and cafes to buy meals and non-alcoholic drinks. It can also be used to buy lotto tickets and scratchies. The government wants participants to have choice and freedom, and we have no issue at all with people who want to buy beer or have a punt from time to time. This program is about helping people to stabilise their lives, become job ready and, hopefully, get back into the workforce.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>283585</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you mentioned you've been out on the ground. Can you please advise what feedback you've received when you've been in the communities about the cashless debit card?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Overwhelmingly, we heard that people were really excited about the fact that they can use their cashless debit card when they travel, whether it be to Cairns, to Sydney, to Adelaide, to Perth or anywhere else. But the other issue they raised a number of times was the misinformation that is out there. The opposition are running an absolutely shameful scare campaign aimed at age pensioners. They are lying to them. Let me be absolutely crystal clear. The government has no plan to force age pensioners on to the cashless debit card, and we will never have such a plan.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my left! There are too many names to call out.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The cashless debit card is for working-age payments to help people stabilise their lives, become job ready and get back into the workforce. Those opposite must cease telling Australians lies. They must tell the truth, which is something that they are not doing at the moment.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, much as it's nice to watch Senator Ruston call out the lies of those opposite, I ask that further questions be placed on notice.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm going to ask you to withdraw that word, because it did refer to specific people.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I withdraw.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Birmingham</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>3199</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>COVID-19: Vaccination</title>
          <page.no>3199</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McCARTHY</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Senior Australians and Aged Care Services (Senator Colbeck) to a question without notice asked by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator Wong) today relating to the COVID-19 vaccination program.</para></quote>
<para>Just three days ago, on 14 June, the Minister for Health and Aged Care told Australians:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… in terms of the vaccines that are available at this point, the Commonwealth has made AstraZeneca available on the medical advice for those that are over 50 …</para></quote>
<para>He also said regarding the vaccine rollout:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… supply dictates the rollout, and we've provided advice on all of the confirmed supply that we have … So we obviously have very clear line of sight with regards to AstraZeneca. The states and territories have ample volumes of AstraZeneca.</para></quote>
<para>Just a few minutes ago in question time, we had the minister representing the health minister tell us every Australian who wants a vaccine will have access to one by the end of the year, but what they can't tell us is how they're going to do this. Thoughts and prayers aren't going to cut it. Wishful thinking certainly won't deliver an adequate supply of the Pfizer vaccine, especially now we have changed health advice meaning more Australians will be wanting the Pfizer vaccine. Remember, this was the health minister who told Australians last month that for anyone hesitant to get the AstraZeneca shot there would be enough Pfizer for everyone by the end of the year. He then had to come out and correct this statement, telling us that in fact we shouldn't be waiting for Pfizer stocks to increase. Is your head spinning? Mine certainly is.</para>
<para>Is it any wonder Australians have lost trust in what this government is telling them about the vaccine rollout? Trust in the public health system is absolutely crucial to support vaccine uptake, and we cannot afford for this to be damaged by the bungling of the Morrison government. Improving access to COVID-19 vaccines is crucial to increasing uptake. It's crucial the government is honest with us about how long those under 60 may now have to wait to access the Pfizer vaccine. I know it is a big ask of the Morrison government to stop the spin machine and just tell us simply and clearly when all Australians under 60 can get their Pfizer shot. They also need to tell us exactly when they were first advised by ATAGI that they should be considering raising the age for the AstraZeneca vaccine.</para>
<para>This inability to be clear and straight with us is impacting on individuals and communities. There is already vaccine hesitancy among some of our most vulnerable populations. Just last week a Central Australian Aboriginal medical centre was avoiding Pfizer vaccine waste by offering vaccines to non-Aboriginal people over the age of 50. Dr John Boffa, Chief Medical Officer of the Central Australian Aboriginal Congress, conceded there had been vaccine hesitancy among the Aboriginal population. In order to not waste a single dose, congress put friends and family of staff on a waiting list to use up any of the leftovers. I'm very pleased there was take-up here, but I'm also concerned that there was so much vaccine left over—and this is for Pfizer. We can't get figures on what percentage of the population in remote communities have taken up the vaccine offer; I've tried. Australian Medical Association Northern Territory President Dr Robert Parker has said concerns about the AstraZeneca vaccine had already sparked fears and hesitancy. That was before today's announcement about the medical advice to raise the age.</para>
<para>I've been out there talking to families and Territorians, urging them to get the jab. I've also been urging the Morrison government to do its job and invest in a nationwide public awareness campaign, including translation into First Nations languages. The messaging by the federal government to the community, let alone to First Nations and those with second languages who are not First Nations—obviously multicultural communities—has really been lacking in this whole process. First Nations media did an amazing job at the start of this pandemic getting out messages about hygiene and movement restrictions to keep people in communities safe. Their efforts have been recognised internationally and held up as best practice, but they've not been funded to do the same thing when it comes to the vaccine rollout. There have been restrictions on the ability of First Nations media and other organisations to craft their own messages in language and at the community level to encourage vaccine take-up.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator McCarthy, for raising this very important issue and highlighting the vaccination rollout across the country. I acknowledge Senator McCarthy's concerns about the different vaccines that are available and the new health advice that we have relating to the AstraZeneca vaccine, but I also want to reassure the Australian people that this government is on the job. We are getting the vaccines out there. Vaccinations are predominantly very safe and we don't want to engage in this rhetoric that leads to and adds to vaccine hesitancy.</para>
<para>I want to thank the millions of Australians who have already put their arms out and received their vaccinations. I note that we are getting better at our vaccination rollout. Whereas in the early days of the rollout it took 45 days to reach the first million doses, it took only 10 days to get the latest million. We've got over six million doses out into people's arms across the country. We have more than 60 per cent of people aged over 70 vaccinated and protected. We have more than 40 per cent of people aged over 50 vaccinated and protected. And we have about one in four of the eligible population—that is, people aged over 16—with at least one dose of a vaccine.</para>
<para>We will see our first arrivals of the Moderna vaccine from September and October this year. And we are already getting more GPs the vaccines they need so they can give their patients, their clients, the vaccine and we can really ramp up the rollout to get more and more people vaccinated throughout the country.</para>
<para>We are expanding access to Pfizer across Australia, and that's why we are using the valuable GP workforce. This expansion was planned to coincide with our highest expected arrival of Pfizer doses so far, and, during July, we expect another 2.8 million doses to come.</para>
<para>We are continuing to work very closely with the states and territories and supporting their vaccination hubs, which are hugely successful—I note that NSW and Victoria are seeing record numbers of vaccinations going out the door. Our core infrastructure is now well established and well tested.</para>
<para>I also want to come to the point raised by Senator McCarthy about educating the community—across our multicultural community. Our government has provided $1.3 million to help peak multicultural organisations reach culturally and linguistically diverse communities, including First Nations communities. Our ethnic media include press, radio, social, and out-of-home campaigns to ensure that people in linguistically diverse communities understand the vaccination rollout, are aware of what their rights are and are aware of the importance of getting vaccinations. Campaign assets have been translated into 32 languages, while other materials are in over 60 languages across Australia. We are very aware that, in our multicultural society, it is very important that we don't limit ourselves to a homogenous education and communications campaign.</para>
<para>Our research also shows that people want the facts. That is why, when people go to Australia's COVID vaccination rollout website, they will be able to find out whether they're eligible, where they can go to book a vaccination and how to book a vaccination. They can also access advice from trusted people such as the head of the Therapeutic Goods Administration, John Skerritt, former deputy chief medical officer Nick Coatsworth and our chief nurse, among other experts. This campaign is working. Our record vaccination day saw over 120,000 vaccinations in one day. I encourage anyone listening to go to Australia.gov.au to find those facts, to check if they're eligible, to find their local clinic and to book now—to put their arm out, get their vaccination and join the one in four people in Australia who have already got a vaccine dose.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GREEN</name>
    <name.id>259819</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under this government it is clear that this vaccine rollout is bungled, botched and a bloody mess. What we know is that, under this government, we have seen a vaccine rollout that has been delayed and played down. We've even been told by the Prime Minister that it isn't a race. I want to join with my colleague Senator McCarthy in encouraging the government to deal with vaccine hesitancy.</para>
<para>Be clear that, in standing in this chamber today, we are not seeking to downplay the importance of the vaccine. Anyone who tries to say that is absolutely wrong. We have always—always—supported the vaccine itself. But it is absolutely fundamental that we should be able to come in here and criticise the government's vaccine rollout, because they are doing a shoddy job. Senator McCarthy and I have sat in Senate estimates and asked officials of government departments what they are doing to deal with vaccine hesitancy, particularly in First Nations communities, and the answers have been absolutely galling. I made sure that those department officials knew that there was a problem with vaccine hesitancy in the Torres Strait and throughout the cape, and I got told that it wasn't a problem—but the figures show that it is.</para>
<para>Instead of just trying to pretend like everything is okay, we want to see the government taking this seriously and understanding that no amount of spin can make this any better. We have been in this pandemic for more than a year, and Scott Morrison still can't get quarantine right and he still can't get vaccines right either. There are no excuses any more when if comes to what this Prime Minister's responsible for. Yet, again today, we have seen the Prime Minister and the government trying to make sure that people know that this isn't their fault, that they are not responsible for the vaccine rollout. Well, Australians feel incredibly different.</para>
<para>We found out today that the AstraZeneca vaccine will only be recommended for use in people aged 60 and over due to the concerns over rare blood clotting. That is medical advice, and we accept that advice. But can I be very clear about this: we are now only producing a vaccine type in Australia that can only be used for people over the age of 60. So the majority of people are not able to get the vaccine type that we are producing here in Australia. If only we could have foreseen the need to produce a vaccine here onshore 12 months ago. That's what other countries did—they foresaw that issue.</para>
<para>The government like to talk about statistics a lot, but they definitely cherrypick the best ones. When we look at what's happening in other countries, we see that the US has vaccinated 44 per cent of its population—and Donald Trump was their president—and, in the UK, 45 per cent of people have been vaccinated—and their government has been described as a 'shopping trolley smashing between aisles'. What does that say about you lot and your vaccine rollout? The worldwide average is 6.2 per cent of the population being vaccinated, but Australia is sitting at just under three per cent of the population being fully vaccinated.</para>
<para>While the government talk about doses, what they are not talking about is people who are fully vaccinated—because they want to back in the Prime Minister when he says that this is not a race. The Prime Minister says that the vaccinations are not a race. Well, tell that to aged-care workers still waiting to be vaccinated and the disability workers who are still waiting to receive a single dose. The Prime Minister says that this is not a race. Well, tell that to communities still facing lockdowns. They have had enough. The Prime Minister says that this is not a race. Tell that to international tourism businesses, who have been told that they will have to wait until mid-2022 before international tourists return to our shores. They think that this is a race. The Prime Minister says that this is not a race. Tell that to the 36,000 Australians waiting to come home because this government refuses to take responsibility for national quarantine. They think that this is a race. The Prime Minister says that this is not a race. Well, tell that to the remote Indigenous communities who have not received a single dose of this vaccine but remain incredibly vulnerable to COVID-19. They think that this is a race.</para>
<para>Vaccinating our country and making quarantine safe is a race, and we are dead last. We don't even have our shoes on. We haven't even got ready yet. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think thou doth protest too much, Senator Green. You stand up and you begin your speech here today by saying, 'Oh, no, Labor is not politicising this issue; we're not trying to make this issue a political pointscoring exercise,' and then you spend the next five minutes—and you spent many hours in estimates—doing exactly that, politicising this issue and trying to turn what is a very complex and technical undertaking into a political pointscoring exercise.</para>
<para>I would encourage all Australians to get out there and get a vaccine. I'm on the list to get my vaccine. It was going to be AstraZeneca, and now that may have changed depending on what happens over the next few months—and timing will potentially shift in terms of my booking. But the point is that 'when the facts change I change my mind'. I don't often quote John Maynard Keynes in this place; I don't think I've ever done it before and I don't plan to do it again, probably. But that's what John Maynard Keynes said.</para>
<para>So, what have we got? Today ATAGI, the expert medical group—the group that Labor constantly tells us we should be seeking and following the medical advice from—has changed the recommendation on the AstraZeneca vaccine. This is the second time the recommendation has been changed. The government has been completely upfront about that. It's the second time the age recommendation on the AstraZeneca vaccine has been changed as new information has come to hand, which is exactly appropriate. It's exactly the way that this rollout should be managed. It is the government taking note of the change to the recommendation, the updated advice on the Pfizer vaccine for adults aged under 60. Until today ATAGI's advice had been that the Pfizer vaccine was preferred for adults under the age of 50. This updated advice, taking that age to 60, is based on new evidence demonstrating a higher risk than originally thought of a rare blood-clotting condition—I'm not even going to try to say the condition's name—for the 50- to 59-year-old age group.</para>
<para>But those opposite also don't like the facts about the vaccine rollout. The facts include that there have been over six million vaccinations, with a daily increase of 152,000 as of midnight 15 June 2021. In the last seven days, there were 738,000 doses, in the last eight days there were almost 900,000 doses and in the last nine days there were one million doses. The rollout, as we always said it would—and as the Australian people would expect—has been significantly boosted over time. The first million doses took 45 days. The second million doses took 20 days. The third million doses took 17 days. The four-million-doses mark was hit 13 days after that, the five-million-doses mark nine days after that and the six-million-doses mark around 10 days after that. So the rollout has significantly ramped up over time but, obviously, the government has taken note of the medical advice, has acted on that expert medical advice and has altered the program accordingly.</para>
<para>I'm extraordinarily proud of what we've managed to do in response to an international pandemic, the like of which the global community has not seen for 100 years. Australia has responded extraordinarily well in so many ways. I think the Australian people, as they choose to do so, will be vaccinated, and I encourage all Australians who are currently eligible for a vaccine to make sure they are using the appropriate websites to register for those vaccines. I went through the Western Australian Department of Health website to register for my own vaccine, and I would encourage all my fellow citizens of Western Australia to do so. If you are eligible to have a vaccine, you should register and you should get vaccinated. That is the quickest path to continuing the very solid foundation we have of recovering from this once-in-century global pandemic and getting life back to normal as much as possible, as we always want it to, as quickly as possible.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator AYRES</name>
    <name.id>16913</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman says that he's 'proud' of the Australian government's response. Stone cold, motherless last—that is where Australia is and that is where the Morrison government is in terms of vaccine schedule and vaccine delivery. That has real consequences for ordinary Australians and ordinary people. It has real consequences in terms of their health. It has real consequences in terms of the economy. We've seen from the budget projections of this government that it knows that because of its vaccine failure there will be at least one citywide lockdown every month for the duration of the financial year.</para>
<para>I watched Senator Colbeck's performance, answering questions about these issues in this afternoon's question time. Senator Colbeck very much gives the impression of a bloke who needs a hand crossing the road. He doesn't inspire confidence. He doesn't know the answers to basic questions. He doesn't appear to have the capability or the guts to face up to the big issues that face Australia in the vaccine rollout, in our response to the pandemic.</para>
<para>But Minister Hunt belled the cat in the other place this afternoon when he was asked the question. He confessed that there were discussions with Pfizer in July last year. Well, why on earth don't we have the proper levels of supply and the right vaccine options, enough vaccine options, for Australians to make sure that we are in the right position, that we are not sitting at the bottom of the queue, outside the league table of the top 100, when it comes to vaccine delivery? In July the government had it within its grasp to secure enough Pfizer vaccine doses to vaccinate Australians. But, instead—who knows why?—it put all our eggs in the AstraZeneca basket. How on earth are we going to get out of this mess?</para>
<para>The vaccine rollout catastrophe hurts ordinary Australians. There will be more of this disease because of the government's vaccine failure. That means more Australians will die of the COVID-19 virus. Others will be disabled. Many, many who didn't need to be ill will be ill. There will be more outbreaks. They will spread faster because of the government's vaccine failure. It will have significant economic impacts and we will be held back in terms of our living standards, jobs and economic growth because of the government's failure.</para>
<para>Ordinary Australians pulled their weight. They deserve a government that actually pulls its weight. We've heard all the excuses and all the language designed to deflect and blame others. We even heard the minister representing the health minister, Senator Colbeck, say yesterday that the government was 'repivoting'. What on earth does that mean? The truth is that we've gone from, 'I don't hold a hose, mate,' to, 'I don't hold a dose, mate.' Scott Morrison, the Prime Minister, is running out of other people to blame. We are in a post-repivot analysis now.</para>
<para>The truth is that the Prime Minister, when it comes to organising a press conference or a photo opportunity, is always there with bells on. There were 16 press conferences to make announcements over the course of last year and the first part of this year. On 7 September there was a big press conference to announce the AstraZeneca deal, with hundreds of photos. It was a big announcement. On 19 August there was another announcement. On 13 November there was another announcement. On 16 November he announced CSL as the local manufacturing site. I think that's when, wearing his Australian flag face mask, he held up an empty vaccine vial. Nothing could more symbolise the jingoism and the announcement-before-delivery approach of this government than holding up an empty vial at a press conference. They're all announcement and no delivery. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>3204</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Families and Social Services (Senator Ruston) to a question without notice asked by Senator Whish-Wilson today relating to climate change.</para></quote>
<para>While I was waiting for my chance to take note of answers, I was looking at Senator Birmingham and I just remembered a question I asked in the Senate of Senator Birmingham five years ago where I read a tweet from Professor Terry Hughes, one of the world's global coral experts. He'd just got back from surveying the Great Barrier Reef. He said that his students looked at the survey results and they wept. Of course, Professor Hughes has been a very outspoken advocate for action on climate change because of his connection to the oceans and the Great Barrier Reef.</para>
<para>I won't go into Senator Birmingham's response, but I did want to frame it in the sense that we had one coalition senator in here today quoting John Maynard Keynes: 'When the facts change, I change my mind.' I say to coalition senators: surely the facts before us are very obvious—devastating, indeed—when you look at the information that's coming through on the changes we've seen in our oceans in just the last five years. Yet their approach to climate change and tackling the greatest challenge of our time hasn't changed at all—no action except distraction, and any excuse for not taking action, while we've had three mass coral bleachings on the Great Barrier Reef that have led to 50 per cent loss of coral cover on this greatest, most international global wonder, a wonder you can see from space; while the majority of the world's coral reefs have suffered even more significant damage from warming oceans; while Tasmania's giant kelp forests have vanished in the last five years, as have many seagrass beds over the country; and while over 1,000 kilometres of mangroves in the Northern Territory and Northern Queensland have been lost from warming oceans, in an environment that's already adapted to warm oceans. These are the extreme facts we need to face. So why aren't we changing our minds? Why is it that our resources minister and Prime Minister have just given 80,000 square kilometres of our oceans to the oil and gas industry, including some of the world's biggest polluters, to carve up and blast the hell out of with seismic surveys, risking these oceans and their values and habitats with oil and gas drilling and by establishing industrial production at our coastlines?</para>
<para>I asked the minister today whether she accepted the simple, established scientific fact that burning fossil fuels leads to more greenhouse emissions and that more greenhouse gas emissions are directly correlated with and causative of warming oceans. And what did we get out of the minister? All she could say is, 'I'm not a climate denier.' That's just not good enough. She could easily be a climate sceptic. I know there are senators in this chamber, such as Senator Abetz, who don't call themselves climate deniers but like to call themselves climate sceptics. Why didn't the minister just come out and say, 'Yes, Senator, that is exactly right: burning more fossil fuels leads to warming oceans, and warming oceans have led to these catastrophic impacts'?</para>
<para>It doesn't matter if we get our emissions under control this week; we've still got 20 years of ocean warming to come from what we've already burnt. That's how dire it is. I just want to repeat that for senators. Even if we take radical action, as David Attenborough tells us we have to do and as the Greens have been saying for decades, we still have warming locked into our system. Our oceans absorb 80 per cent of this planet's heat, and they have already absorbed a substantial amount of heat. That means more changes and more impacts. Yet the minister couldn't answer the concerns of communities—ocean lovers, surfers, fishers and divers. She couldn't come in here and explain why she is continuing with this insanity of issuing fossil fuel permits for the exact same product that, when it's burnt, is actually killing our oceans. It's the time in history to stop this madness.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3205</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3205</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>3205</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on the proposal at the request of any senator. There being none, we will move on.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Procedure Committee</title>
          <page.no>3206</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3206</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LINES</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the Procedure Committee's second report of 2021. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate adopt the recommendation in paragraph 1.2 of the report.</para></quote>
<para>In June 2020, the Senate adopted temporary orders limiting the number of general business motions that may be proposed as formal. These orders also placed a limit of 200 words on such motions and asked the Procedure Committee to review the changes. The committee has met to review the orders at meetings in February, March and June this year, and hopes to consult with senators on alternative arrangements early in the 2021 spring sittings. The motion I have moved would extend the current temporary orders until 9 August 2021 to enable that consultation to take place.</para>
<para>I commend the report to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish to take note of that report. What we have just seen is the rollover of a one-year change to a process of this chamber. It will continue that restriction on motions for another couple of months, after which time we fully expect that there will be an even-less-democratic change to the Senate program.</para>
<para>We know that both of the big parties frequently vote together and that this is yet another issue which they are in lock step on. They want to diminish the rights of all senators—but the impact will be felt most disproportionately on the crossbench—to bring matters of importance to the attention of the Senate. They want to put restrictions on that. It's known as motions; obviously, it's a highly procedural issue. But it's a really important method for accountability and for bringing to the attention of the chamber issues that the government doesn't want to put on the agenda.</para>
<para>There are very few options that crossbenchers have to raise an issue that's not already the subject of a government bill and to require parties to vote on that issue. We get very few opportunities to do that, but it's a crucial accountability mechanism and a crucial transparency mechanism. This government, in extending this temporary order—which restricts a senator's ability to move as many motions as we used to be able to—and in flagging that there will be some future change, which we have very little hope will be an improvement, shows an attempt by both of the big parties to set the agenda and not give any power to the crossbench to raise additional issues.</para>
<para>As senators, we represent constituents and we want to put issues on the agenda. We want the public to know what the policy positions of the two big parties are. That doesn't suit them, because they don't actually want to be held to account—they don't want to be forced to tell the public what their position is. I want to run through some of the really positive reforms that motions have been able to achieve, just to make clear what's at stake here and why the crossbenchers are fighting so hard to keep our ability to move formal motions and force the big parties to vote on the policies that are mentioned within those motions.</para>
<para>Perhaps the most well-known one is the fact that motions led to the banking royal commission. The Greens moved motions in this chamber, which were concurred with down in the House, calling for accountability for the awful behaviour of banks. The very existence of those motions and that folk in fact crossed the floor—former senator Wacka Williams crossed the floor to support that banking motion—increased the pressure and led to the government creating the banking royal commission. That was reluctantly, I might add, and after far too long a delay. But it was those motions which were the genesis that led to a royal commission into the banks, and that has improved some of the regulations that pertain to the conduct of banks.</para>
<para>Motions also culminated in the disability royal commission—following a similar process. We fought for many years for marriage equality, and much of that began with motions in the Senate. I have a few other examples, including Senator Lambie's recent concurrence motion calling for a royal commission into defence and veteran suicide—that passed the Senate. After the threat of various members crossing the floor, the government then allowed it to pass the House. Shortly after that, the government, again, announced that they would, in fact, call a royal commission. A motion that we passed in March of 2021—a Greens' motion—opposing the Crib Point gas import terminal was supported by all parties and shortly afterwards the project was rejected by the Victorian state government.</para>
<para>Motions can lead to real outcomes. The very existence of the crossbench being able to raise issues that might not suit the political agenda of the government of the day, or even of the opposition, and requiring those parties to put on the record what their policy position is on those issues are a crucial part of accountability. That is a crucial part of being open and honest in a representative democracy. For both of those reasons, we will fight to keep motions and to keep our ability as representatives of our states and territories to raise issues of importance that the government of the day might not see fit to move legislation on, or don't want mentioned, or they want to try and stay quiet about their real policy position.</para>
<para>We think transparency is actually a really good thing. With the move here to extend on the restriction of motions and the likely restriction that will come after that, this government just doesn't want the accountability. It doesn't want the transparency. We have seen an hours motion to ram legislation through. We see an increasing trend to have policy changes made by instrument. Sometimes that instrument isn't even allowed to be disallowed. And we've seen members of the government raise their concerns about this trend towards executive power and the lack of accountability, the lack of the role of parliament to have a say in important policy changes. This is another example of that. And, sadly, it seems to be done with the full support of the opposition.</para>
<para>This is the two big parties ganging up against the crossbench to stop us from raising politically inconvenient issues, to stop us from raising those issues that our constituents care about, that future generations care about, that are important for matters of public interest, because they don't want to be embarrassed into saying what their real positions on those topics are. Well, are you embarrassed about what your policy positions are? If so, change your policy positions rather than running and hiding from the accountability. Motions force you to reveal your policy position. Just change your policies if you are that embarrassed by them. We are very concerned at this trend of manipulating the chamber in an attempt to restrict the rights of the crossbench to use what measures are available to us to hold the government and the opposition to account. We will fight these measures.</para>
<para>This is a procedure committee report. Not many folks are on that procedure committee, but the other members of the crossbench have also been very strong, for the last year, in resisting these restrictions. I fully anticipate that that will continue. We will await what proposals are to come to further change how motions operate. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it will result in less accountability and that it will be an attempt to restrict the crossbench's ability to force a vote on issues, to force both of the big parties to reveal to the public what they actually think about issues.</para>
<para>I know you don't like transparency, and this government are taking secrecy to a whole new level, but it's not right. It's antidemocratic. I think it will be seen for what it is—you trying to consolidate power and shield yourself from accountability and transparency—so be very wary. This is the biggest crossbench that we've ever had in the history of this nation. There is a reason why people are not voting for the two big parties. I think you will simply give them more reasons for that if you continue to try to shut down the crossbench from representing our constituents and raising issues that we think the public want to know the answers to. You might not want to go on record with what your position is, but the Australian people deserve to know what it is that you stand for. Motions serve that purpose. Motions have also led to real outcomes, which I've listed off before. They've led to several royal commissions and to changes of policy at the state level. They are a real force for change and a force for accountability.</para>
<para>So it is desperately disappointing that both of the big parties want to continue to shut them down, to silence the crossbench and to continue to try to sew up procedure in a way that gives even more power to the government of the day. So much for being a house of review. It's almost like you're treating the Senate as a tick and flick. The tragedy is that the opposition seems to be fully on board with that proposal. Well, we will continue to fight this, and I know the rest of the crossbench will continue to fight this, and we await this future proposal on 9 August to see just what nefariousness you hope to have in store.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3208</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3208</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee, I present the report of the committee on the <inline font-style="italic">Customs Amendment (Banning Goods Produced By Uyghur Forced Labour) Bill 2020</inline>, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings, additional information and submissions.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I did advise people that that's the report from business of the Senate order of the day earlier.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights</title>
          <page.no>3209</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3209</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights, I present the <inline font-style="italic">Human rights scrutiny report 7 of 2021</inline>.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Broadband Network - Joint Standing</title>
          <page.no>3209</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3209</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DAVEY</name>
    <name.id>281697</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on the National Broadband Network, I present a progress report of the committee, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>As the progress report notes, this committee has had 11 public hearings in Canberra, and we've called for and taken submissions from across the community. I would like to thank the member for Barker for his work in chairing these proceedings, as well as the work of the committee secretariat in ensuring the important work of this committee ran smoothly.</para>
<para>The committee originally sought to inquire solely into the business case for the NBN and the experiences of small businesses, with an emphasis on regional areas. This is a vital piece of work that is being conducted by the committee because, as someone who comes from the bush, it cannot be understated how important it is for us to ensure that communications and connectivity remain not only constant but also accessible in the bush. There is nothing worse for a small business than for someone to go to a store, willing to buy, but be unable to pay because an EFTPOS machine has gone down. We've learnt during COVID that people have transferred away from cash. More and more people are relying on their debit card or their credit card or, indeed, even their telephone pay apps. We received 34 submissions, including from Hay Shire Council—just an hour north of my home town of Deniliquin—about the experiences of small business when things like their EFTPOS machine goes down and how much money they lose just by that one small piece of infrastructure going down.</para>
<para>The rollout of the NBN is a major task. It is vital to continue looking at ways to improve its service for our regional and small businesses. It's also important to look at how far we've come in rolling out the NBN. More than 8.1 million premises across Australia are now connected to the NBN and 11.9 million premises are ready to connect. As at the end of 2020, there were only 34,000 premises remaining to be made ready to connect. It is expected that by the end of this month that will be down to 10,000 premises. In fact, today, 71 per cent of homes and businesses are on a 50 megabit-per-second or higher NBN plan.</para>
<para>In the March quarter of this year, the number of Home Superfast services increased from 11,136 back in December to almost 490,000 at the end of March. In the same period, Home Ultrafast connections grew from 9,900 to 83,000. This is a monumental effort by NBN Co to complete their rollout and also complete and provide improved, better services.</para>
<para>Having successfully rolled out the network, our government's priority is now to continue to leverage the NBN for the social and economic benefit of all Australians, especially those in regional areas. That is why, last September, we announced a $4.5 billion network investment to provide 75 per cent of the fixed-line network access to ultrafast broadband—that is, one gigabit per second—by 2023. This investment is pivotal, because through COVID we learnt how important connectivity and access to the World Wide Web is. In May last year 46 per cent of Australians were working from home. That is 46 per cent of Australians, regularly using videoconferencing, such as Zoom, Skype, Teams, Webex and many others, who rely on reliable and stable internet connectivity. The NBN saw an increase of up to 70 per cent in traffic volume from pre-COVID levels. COVID-19 resulted in a spike of demand in the NBN, and its service partners handled this very effectively. At peak there were up to 40,000 new connections in one day.</para>
<para>In regional Australia the NBN is investing more than $2 billion to strengthen the digital backbone through the implementation of on-the-ground support teams focusing on assisting to resolve community issues, helping to provide advice, representing regional customers and businesses and working with them on finding solutions for their needs. NBN Co has also established the $300 million co-investment fund. Through this fund it will partner with governments at federal, state and local levels to deliver access to higher-speed broadband services to households and businesses in regional and remote Australia.</para>
<para>The NBN, though, is just one of many networks available across Australia, and our government is committed to encouraging innovation, competition and choice. That is why we developed the Regional Connectivity Program. Under this program we have already seen 16 new co-funded projects roll out that will help enhance connectivity for rural, regional and remote Australians. The locations of these successful projects range from remote communities in East Arnhem Land in the Northern Territory to rural communities in western Victoria and the Huon Valley in Tasmania.</para>
<para>One fantastic example from this program was the Costa Group Regional Connectivity Program project, which saw $570,000 of co-funding in conjunction with the Armidale Regional Council, so that this Australian, world-class, leading fresh fruit and vegetable company, the Costa Group, could improve connectivity and their connection on their regional sites. The Costa Group employs more than 700 hardworking Australians across two regional sites and contributes about $31 million annually in wages and salaries to these local communities, one of which is in Guyra, just outside Armidale in New South Wales. I've been to see their facilities up there. They have the largest glasshouse tomato production in our country. What an efficient and exciting place it is. This project will see these sites gain access to NBN technology and will support the Costa Group to expand their business operations at their facilities, including research, administration and horticultural production. This will result in significant benefits to those local economies around Guyra and Falconer and will increase employment opportunities and regional output.</para>
<para>I also want to highlight the Mossgiel regional connectivity project in the Carrathool Shire Council, which is just up the road from me in the Western Riverina. They've had $269,000 committed to upgrade their local community antenna equipment and backhaul capacity at the existing Telstra 3G base. This project will give local families and travellers Telstra 4G and internet coverage into the broader area, along the Cobb Highway. This is just one example where connectivity is not reliant on cables; connectivity is a combination of fibre, of cables, of wireless and of mobile technologies. We need the mix to keep our regional areas connected so that our farmers, our regional businesses, our travellers and our tourists going through the regions are connected, have access to the internet, can continue to do their business remotely, and can continue to be productive participants in our society.</para>
<para>Our government is committed to continuing to invest in the NBN and projects that directly improve connectivity and provide quality for all businesses in rural and regional Australia so as to ensure every Australian has access to quality services, irrespective of where they are. I will continue to actively participate in the ongoing work of the joint NBN standing committee as it finalises its inquiry into NBN services, and I look forward to being able to present the final report at a later date.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3211</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>3211</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3212</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>3212</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3212</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate and the environment and communications committee for an excellent report into the impact of seismic testing on fisheries and the marine environment. I'm very proud that the Australian Greens initiated and chaired this inquiry. It ran for over two years—partly because of COVID, but also because of the substantial response the committee received from around the country—and looked into community concerns around the impacts of seismic testing, and also the lack of understanding and lack of research that had been done into the impacts of this activity.</para>
<para>I wanted to see this inquiry happen because, over many years, a number of stakeholders, including fishers and commercial fishing industry stakeholders, have continually raised their concerns and anecdotal evidence about the direct impact that seismic testing is having on their fisheries. Seismic surveying relies on some of the loudest noises produced by human beings being blasted from a sonic gun down a water column potentially kilometres deep into the Earth's surface. You can imagine how loud these noises are if these blasts are actually able to penetrate the Earth's surface and be used by fossil fuel companies to find the next fossil fuel bonanza. We even heard evidence that seismic blasts off the coast of Victoria or the Great Australian Bight in the right conditions can be heard as far as the Antarctic. These are very loud noises that are blasted continuously every 10 seconds for potentially days or weeks on end. Here is the catch: when I asked about the impacts of seismic surveys back in 2013, the Liberal government at the time told me there was no evidence that these seismic surveys did any damage to fisheries. As it turns out, they were pretty much right. There was no evidence. But that's not because they didn't damage fisheries; it was because no-one had done any research into the impacts of seismic testing on commercial fish species.</para>
<para>Following the loss of a $50 million scallop bed off Northern Tasmania, finally some money was allocated for the University of Tasmania, the Institute for Marine and Antarctic Studies and other universities to start looking at the impacts. It was done in the lab initially, and the results were concerning. I'm also very proud to say—and Senator Urquhart was part of the committee—that I believe the pressure that was brought to bear by this committee led to the first ever study of seismic testing on marine life in the environment, actually in situ in the ocean—including before-and-after studies. There was the first study of its kind of a before-and-after population study on a commercial fish species. In this case, the study on the whiting species in the Otway Basin in this area that had been blasted for three months showed that 99 per cent of the whiting population had left the area. We haven't had the final report yet on the long-term impacts of that, but I understand that many of those fish still haven't returned. When I asked NOPSEMA, the regulator, about this, they said: 'Yes, of course we understood that. Fish swim away from loud noise.' But nowhere could I find that they had ever assessed the impact of these tests on the commercial fishing sector or, more broadly, on the community, tourism operators, recreational fishers, First Australians or anyone.</para>
<para>We have had a number of tests done now. They certainly suggest cause for concern. The committee produced an excellent report, with 19 recommendations that I believe will reform the sector, including that we need to see a lot more research and that this research needs to be funded by the fossil fuel industry before any more of this activity occurs. These uncertainties are significant and, while the regulatory framework, according to NOPSEMA, is there to manage these risks, there is no community confidence around this country that NOPSEMA manages these risks in the public interest. There is a very strong perception that the regulator is managing these risks for the oil and gas industries. In other words, it is up to you to prove that damage is being done before NOPSEMA will step in and stop an activity and it's not up to the oil and gas industries to do the research and prove they are doing no harm, even though initial studies suggest that this activity is directly harming marine life.</para>
<para>I'd just like to finish by saying, while the committee report was excellent, it took three attempts to get this up. We know the government went to great lengths to avoid this inquiry. That evidence was given by some stakeholders. The Greens don't believe the committee report went far enough. Indeed, it couldn't go far enough. We would like to see this activity banned from our oceans until the research has been done. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Australia Agenda Select Committee</title>
          <page.no>3213</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>3213</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McDONALD</name>
    <name.id>123072</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the report of the Senate Select Committee on the effectiveness of the Australian Government's Northern Australia agenda. This coalition government is filled with doers, especially in relation to northern Australia, and it's just unfortunate that I have only five minutes to highlight the huge strides being made in our great north. I think the most important element, though, is the structural changes that we are making to those things that have been holding northern Australia back—two things in particular. One is access to capital and the second is the complete market failure for insurance.</para>
<para>On insurance, we have acted on this market failure in northern Australia by announcing a reinsurance pool of $10 billion. Warren Entsch, as the member for Leichhardt, has been working hard on this for the last 10 years, and now he, George Christensen, Phillip Thompson and I have leaned in. This terrific announcement has made an unimaginable difference to businesses that couldn't get insurance; to retirees and owners of strata title units who couldn't get insurance; and, of course, to families, for whom the cost of insurance has become so eye-wateringly crippling that they have been either uninsured or underinsured. Some put the estimates on the reductions of insurance premiums at 50 per cent, which is a huge result on the back of this advocacy by our northern members. Again, this is in stark contrast to the Queensland Labor government, which continues to charge Northern Queensland residents predatory rates of stamp duty on their ever-increasing premiums. They're now having a windfall gain estimated at some $60 million a year being gouged out of the North Queensland economy.</para>
<para>On water, we have been working hard on establishing feasibility studies and preparing water projects. For the Big Rocks Weir near Charters Towers there is $30 million in federal funding, but we are still waiting for the state government to finalise their decision to get the project started. There will be 200 jobs in construction and ongoing agriculture on 5,000 hectares of high-value land. Work has begun on Rookwood Weir near Rockhampton thanks to $176 million in federal funding. Urannah Dam work is progressing north-west of Mackay. This is a terrific project, and it will require continued support to get it to construction stage, along with dams at Hughenden, the Richmond irrigation scheme and, of course, the Hells Gate Dam. We've also funded a study into a water project on the Cloncurry River. There is the Lakeland project on the Tablelands and, of course, the Mareeba-Dimbulah irrigation project, just to name a few.</para>
<para>Last week I was fortunate enough to be at Kidston for the sod turning on the project there, which has more than $650 million in federal funding. This includes the largest loan to date from the Northern Australia Infrastructure Facility, at $610 million. The coalition has restructured the NAIF's lending criteria to allow smaller projects that will create jobs and boost regional economies in the north. In Queensland the NAIF has supported projects with a total value of around $1 billion, supporting around 3,500 jobs and returning an estimated economic benefit of more than $2.3 billion. The NAIF has now reached contractual close on $989 million in transactions in Queensland alone. This is a critical point of economic enablement where design and construction activities commence and job creation starts. Some of those opposite like to throw stones at the NAIF from their cushy inner-city offices, but this is not just an insult to the coalition; it is an insult to the hardworking NAIF staff who are based in the regions and making a real difference, despite the numerous roadblocks to development put in place by the Queensland Labor government.</para>
<para>There is so much more that is being done to increase people's ability to live and work in North Queensland and northern Australia: the increase of the Medicare rebate; regional connectivity, with the investment of more than $6 million in the latest round of regional connectivity programs to improve internet access for people in northern Australia; resources; the expansion of the geosciences program; and major transport corridors of growth. Our record in northern Australia is plain to see and is a result of action from this government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McMAHON</name>
    <name.id>282728</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the final report of the Select Committee on the effectiveness of the Australian government's Northern Australia Agenda. Northern Australia is often regarded as having the greatest potential for development and prosperity in the country. Agriculture is one of the main economic activities in the north, and it does have enormous scope for expansion and development. The Northern Territory, in particular its agriculture sector, continues to prosper under the policies of a coalition government. But agriculture in the Northern Territory, along with many other industries, is struggling at the moment—in fact it's going backwards in some cases—due to workforce issues and labour shortages. Farms are struggling to get workers and properties are struggling. There are no pickers for our seasonal mango and melon crops. This is something that's echoed across many industries in the Northern Territory. In fact tourism and hospitality are booming and doing so well at the moment, but they've got no staff. Some hotels in Darwin and Alice Springs are operating at 25 per cent capacity, not because they don't have the rooms but simply because they don't have the staff to work in the industry. They are in fact turning people away. The Northern Territory is turning away the economy that they could have because of this massive labour shortage.</para>
<para>Yesterday the Minister for Agriculture, Drought and Emergency Management, the Hon. David Littleproud, confirmed that there will be an agriculture visa as part of the give and take of negotiations with the UK over the free trade agreement. UK backpackers will no longer be required to fulfil the requirement to work in the agriculture industry to extend their visa. While to some this may seem like a decision that will adversely impact the agriculture sector, the changes negotiated by Minister Littleproud on behalf of the sector he represents will also have positive flow-on effects for other industries like tourism and hospitality. Hospitality NT chief executive Alex Bruce believed the Territory's tourism and hospitality industry might not have gotten access to UK backpackers whose first preference was to work in the sector but who were not keen on spending the 88 days required in agriculture first. If that's the case—and time will tell—then this will be a double win on the back of changes by the federal government in lifting restrictions on the hours international students can work. The new agriculture visa is a massive, massive win for the Territory in securing the labour force that's needed. We will no longer have the UK backpackers but, to be honest, not many of them worked in the Northern Territory anyway. They were often unsuited to the harsh climatic conditions associated with picking melons and mangoes in the Northern Territory.</para>
<para>The new agriculture visa has been a long time in the planning. It has been a Country Liberal Party policy for many years and it is something that I have been working on in this place with various ministers for the two years that I have been here. It has been supported by my National Party colleagues, who have also called for an agriculture visa. It is going to be an incredible win for tourism, for agriculture and for many industries in the Northern Territory. UK backpackers will be freed up to go and work in cafes or bars, or in work that they're used to doing and that they're good at, and we can extend visa arrangements to our ASEAN neighbours to our north, to people that are used to working in the agriculture industry, to people who are already used to picking mangoes. People that have worked on farms and have run farms can now come to northern Australia, to the Northern Territory, and fill this massive shortage that we have.</para>
<para>Last season we saw $15 million worth of mangoes out of a $50 million industry rot on the ground simply because there weren't the workers to pick those mangoes. This will revolutionise our agriculture industries.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will put the question that the Senate take note of the report.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Urquhart</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to seek some clarification. I'm not sure whether Senator McMahon sought leave to continue her remarks later on that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e4t</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Urquhart, are you seeking leave to continue your remarks later on that document?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Urquhart</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, on that document—take note and seek leave.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>3216</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>3216</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the government response on the Senate Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee report into the performance of the Australian Maritime Safety Authority. As some of you have perhaps noticed, I've taken a strong interest in this issue from my time on that committee. Even though I'm not on that committee anymore, I continue to be very interested in this issue. Obviously what spurred that inquiry was a particular tragic set of events in Western Australia. It goes back a while now, and I won't go over those events again; they have been well ventilated in this place and in other forums. However, those events have been the trigger for a significant report by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee into AMSA. In May of this year the Australian government tabled its response to those recommendations. I want to speak very briefly to that response and to the process.</para>
<para>Part of AMSA's role is to regulate commercial shipping, and part of the recommendations that came out of that report was a review of the regulations surrounding commercial shipping within Australian waters. Obviously this relates to both recreational vessels, such as the one in which the tragic events took place, and the regulation of the way passengers are counted on and off vessels and making sure that, at very possible opportunity, when an accident does occur, everybody gets home. So that's very important.</para>
<para>I was recently down in Esperance, in the far south of Western Australia, with my colleague Senator Small, and we spoke to an operator of a small fishing vessel who highlighted another potential issue. I wish to raise it here, because one of those recommendations was a thorough-going review of the law, the associated legislative instruments and marine orders. The issue that came up was that the certification of safety management systems, particularly for our smaller commercial marine operators, is proving both difficult and expensive and is often extremely unclear in terms of the way the law needs to be complied with.</para>
<para>As it was described to us, a small commercial shipping vessel—a shipping vessel in this case—has to produce a safety management system. Often the owners and operators of those vessels don't necessarily have the technical skills to produce such management systems. Though they can obviously comply with them and implement them, they don't necessarily have expertise in drafting them. So they often will outsource this work to consultants, experts in the field. The trouble is that that is a costly exercise and then those documents are submitted to AMSA. As it was described to me, there is not necessarily any rhyme, reason or explanation as to which marine safety management system will be approved and which will be rejected.</para>
<para>So operators, particularly smaller operators, are put in an absolutely invidious position where they are submitting very expensive documentation to a regulator and they are not getting clarity or feedback on whether that marine safety management system is going to be acceptable to AMSA or not in advance. Obviously that makes it very difficult for them in terms of cost, time and keeping their boats on the water. As small businesses trying to operate in a very changeable and potentially costly market, that is a very difficult environment in which to work. I will obviously be communicating this concern directly to the minister. But I think it is important, as we go through this thorough-going review of the legislation, legislative instruments and marine orders in this area, that we consider all these kinds of problems that currently exist in the system and address as many of them as we possibly can.</para>
<para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>3217</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>3217</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</title>
        <page.no>3218</page.no>
        <type>AUDITOR-GENERAL'S REPORTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Report No. 39 of 2020-21</title>
          <page.no>3218</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>3218</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to Auditor-General report No. 39 of 2020-21, <inline font-style="italic">Performance audit—COVID-19 procurements and deployments of the National Medical Stockpile: Department of Health; Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources</inline>. This report was released on 27 May. It is a very important report, because it highlights some of the issues around our National Medical Stockpile. Through the COVID committee, we tried to find out quite a lot of detail about this stockpile, and at the time we had some difficulty in finding out how it was operating and how effective and accountable it was in terms of distributing at very critical times the National Medical Stockpile.</para>
<para>This report found that the procurement processes for the COVID-19 National Medical Stockpile, or NMS, procurement, 'were largely consistent with the proper use and management of public resources'. And you think, 'Oh, great,' but then it goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Inconsistent due diligence checks of suppliers impacted on procurement effectiveness and record keeping could have been improved.</para></quote>
<para>It then goes on to make this point:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In the absence of risk-based planning and systems that sufficiently considered the likely ways in which the NMS would be needed during a pandemic, Health adapted its processes during the COVID-19 emergency to deploy NMS supplies.</para></quote>
<para>And then it says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Large quantities of PPE were deployed to eligible recipients. Due to a lack of performance measures, targets and data, the effectiveness of COVID-19 NMS deployments cannot be established.</para></quote>
<para>One of the most critical elements, and one that we were asking constantly about, was the deployment of PPE. For a start, during the pandemic, I was on the phone a lot, asking about what was happening with PPE for aged care—particularly for remote communities, because they were having trouble accessing PPE in a timely manner. Heaven forbid there had been an outbreak, because what they were first told to do, if they saw signs of an outbreak, if COVID had got in, was: 'Ring, and then we'll get you some PPE'—into remote areas? Come on! That was ridiculous. I will acknowledge that, further down the track, PPE, through the National Medical Stockpile, became much more available, but you would have thought that, straightaway, you'd get that PPE out into remote communities, because we all knew what would happen in remote communities if COVID got in, because in some of those remote communities—and in aged care in remote communities—are some of the most vulnerable people in Australia.</para>
<para>The report goes through quite a lot of detail, but it also found:</para>
<quote><para class="block">14. Record keeping for the procurements was partially fit for purpose, which impeded review and transparency. Public reporting of the procurements complied with requirements.</para></quote>
<para>In the opinion of many of us, it didn't comply with the level of information that should have been known to the community, to see how quickly and effectively this PPE, in particular, was being deployed. That's about procurement.</para>
<para>Then it talks about deployments, and it goes on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">15. Health's deployment planning was partially effective … risks to effective deployment in a pandemic of any magnitude were not sufficiently considered in the years preceding the COVID-19 response. Pre-pandemic planning was based on a narrow definition of stockpile aims and eligibility. Because this did not align with the way in which the NMS was used during the pandemic, operational plans and systems were changed and additional plans developed during the course of the pandemic.</para></quote>
<para>Hopefully we have now learned from this, to ensure we are always ready for a pandemic. It goes on:</para>
<quote><para class="block">16. Health's deployment of NMS supplies to various health provider groups during the pandemic was consistent in principle with its responsibilities to these groups under national health emergency agreements. In practice, Health limited eligibility to prioritised sub-groups. Disaggregated and unanalysed data about eligibility outcomes impedes transparency about eligibility decisions.</para></quote>
<para>In other words, we just don't know. I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>3219</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Women's Budget Statement 2021-22</title>
          <page.no>3219</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>3219</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUGHES</name>
    <name.id>273828</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The Women's Budget Statement is a $3.4 billion package that's focused on supporting all Australian women. It's investing in facilitating respect, dignity, choice, equality of opportunity and justice to safeguard women's safety, their economic security and their status.</para>
<para>The Morrison government is committed to taking action and enhancing, in particular, women's economic security. We're investing to remove barriers and to improve choices and chances for all Australian women. This is one of the pillars that we in the Liberal Party believe very, very strongly in, but this is not about equality of outcome; it's about equality of opportunity. It's about making sure that that playing field is as level and as even as it can be, for women in Australia to be able to participate. In order to do that, the Morrison government is investing even more money into child care. This will help remove any disincentives for women to take on extra days of work. We regularly hear from families that women return to work part time; they take up limited days when they return to the workforce because the costs of child care are prohibitive or in fact a deterrent for taking up more days. Mind you, there are some mums that almost think it's worth paying for just to get that day back in the office with some adult conversation and away from <inline font-style="italic">Bluey</inline> on the television!</para>
<para>We are also helping single parents to achieve the great Australian dream of owning your own home, and this is through the Family Home Guarantee. For a woman, particularly a single woman, one who has been through divorce or found themselves later in life without stable accommodation, being able to own your own home is a form of security that is incredibly important, particularly when we consider some of the greatest levels of homelessness are now occurring in single women in the over-50s age group. We want to boost women's opportunity to enter the housing market, and, if they have previously been forced to leave it, to re-enter the housing market, to provide them with some security and stability, particularly of accommodation, as they move into their later years.</para>
<para>In relation to women at the start of their career and women and girls that are still studying, we are continuing to develop opportunities for women to access the jobs of the future. We know that the workplace is going to look different in the next five to 10 years. Looking at Senator Patrick—or should I say hashtag #senatorsingle; is that right? We might work with some of these single women over here. Sorry, it is Thursday afternoon, Senator Patrick! I'm sure Senator Patrick could confirm that working on those Oberon class submarines looks very different to being on the Collins class. As workplaces continue to evolve and the technology continues to change, we are looking to develop opportunities for women to ensure that they have equal access and a real interest that's able to be cultivated in STEM, and making sure that that interest starts in school and carries on beyond that.</para>
<para>These measures are, of course, part of the broader Women's Economic Security Package. This will ensure that we enhance women's workforce participation, which won't benefit only women. It's not just the mums that go back to work that benefit from this increased ability to participate in the workforce; it's actually the entire Australian economy that benefits—every single person in Australia benefits, all families, with more Australians in the workforce. That's why we are determined to see women's workforce participation increase by five per cent, increasing GDP in real terms by $20 billion over the next five years. This landmark investment of $1.9 billion in women's economic security will improve choice and opportunity for Australian women, who are key to the Morrison government's commitment to create more jobs and continue our economic recovery from COVID-19.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>3220</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Timor-Leste</title>
          <page.no>3220</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) in 2004 Australia, during 'good faith' sea boundary negotiations with Timor-Leste, one of the poorest countries in the world, spied on their negotiating team with an aim to forcing them to surrender most of the revenue from the Greater Sunrise resource project,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) Mr Bernard Collaery and Witness K have been charged for blowing the whistle on the unlawful conduct,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iii) the spying has blemished Australia's reputation in Timor and undone much of the good will that stemmed from assisting the nation gain independence,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(iv) the alienation of Timor has the potential to damage Australia's diplomatic and national security interests, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(v) at the 27 May 2021 estimates hearing of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee, the Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions advised that the impact these prosecutions could have on Australia's relationship with Timor was beyond the scope of the matters they included in their public interest considerations; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(i) the Federal Government to recognise that the prosecution of Mr Collaery and Witness K is not in the public interest, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(ii) the Attorney-General to decline to proceed further with the prosecutions as per section 71 of the <inline font-style="italic">Judiciary Act 1903</inline>.</para></quote>
<para>I'm very pleased that the Attorney-General has joined us in the chamber to listen to this debate. It is a very important discussion that we're going to have. I'm going to talk about betrayal—betrayal of a country and then betrayal of whistleblowers. Australia's relationship with Timor-Leste has been a long history of betrayal on our side of the ledger. In 1942 the Timorese people paid a terrible price for supporting Australian commandos fighting the Japanese in occupied Timor. Yet, at the end of the war Australia was content to see the Portuguese military regime resume control of Timor, which was left as an impoverished colonial backwater.</para>
<para>In the 1970s Prime Minister Whitlam gave a wink and a nod to President Suharto's plans to invade East Timor. He put good relationships with Jakarta ahead of international law and basic decency. Prime Minister Fraser's government then watched the Indonesians invade and turned a blind eye to reports of the most terrible massacres and atrocities. The governments of Prime Minister Hawke and Prime Minister Keating then embraced Suharto and scrabbled to negotiate a deal with Indonesia to get the lion's share of oil and gas wealth in the Timor Sea. We can all remember foreign minister Gareth Evans clinking champagne glasses with foreign minister Ali Alatas whilst flying in a VIP jet high above the Timor Sea.</para>
<para>We then go to the negotiations that took place after the independence of East Timor. We must remember that John Howard was initially very reluctant to assist in supporting the Timorese in their independence call and, indeed, only after international pressure and public pressure did we send in Australian troops. The East Timorese people triumphed, so did Australian activists such as Sister Susan Connelly, who so long championed for the cause of East Timor. I was up in Timor for the 20th anniversary and other people were honoured as well, including Michele O'Neil from the ACTU for a lot of work that she'd done in this area. Lots and lot of Australians got involved.</para>
<para>Then what happened was we then entered into negotiations over the sea boundary between Timor-Leste and Australia. Importantly—and we need to understand this—we entered into good faith negotiations as was required by international law. But what did we do? We sent ASIS officers disguised as aid workers into the cabinet rooms of the Timor government and bugged the negotiating team. People might think that I'm revealing some sort of secret here but I'm not. We have Bernard Collaery and Witness K appearing in the courts here in the ACT, not because there was some fictitious operation but because there was a real operation. Anyone who wants to take the time, the trouble, to look at the ICJs website and have a look at Timor-Leste's memorial in relation to its proceedings against Australia, when the Australian government broke into the lawyers of Timor-Leste, raided their offices and took all of their legal documents—which ultimately they had to return, with the Hague ordering, an unusual order, that Australia was not to spy on East Timor. So let's not pretend this didn't happen. It was unconscionable. It was not the way Australians expect us to treat almost our nearest neighbour, a neighbour that helped us throughout World War II, a neighbour that is actually quite an important neighbour to us, noting its geographical location. We dudded them. That's what we set out to do. We dudded them. Then, when someone called them out, what did we do? We went after them.</para>
<para>I understand that Witness K may have pleaded guilty to charges in the ACT court today. That's not been confirmed. We saw that at question time. But in the event that that is what has happened, or will happen, we need to understand that witness K didn't go to the media. He went to the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security and made a complaint. He raised the issue through the appropriate authorities and was then authorised to talk to a lawyer who was approved by IGIS to deal with these sorts of matters; he went to talk to Mr Bernard Collaery. He did everything properly. He called out misconduct and then, when he did it properly, he ended up in the ACT courts.</para>
<para>He has been under extreme pressure. We know that in 2013 the Australian government took his passport from him so that he couldn't travel. This is a gentleman who had served his country. This is a gentleman who was of the highest calibre and who had never presented a problem in terms of anything that he had done, and he had his passport taken from him. Of course he's been fighting that in the AAT, to try to get it back. Those proceedings have been interrupted by the charges that were then laid against witness K. Of course, the prospect of a charge originally sat with former Attorney-General Senator George Brandis, who refused to deal with it. He knew that this was not proper. So it sat on his desk until there was a change of Attorney-General to Christian Porter, who then authorised the prosecution, in a poor lack of judgement.</para>
<para>These are not the only judgements that we call into question with the former Attorney-General, Christian Porter. He approved these prosecutions, he approved the prosecution of David McBride and he approved the prosecution of Richard Boyle. Those were all bad calls. This was the Attorney-General who censored an Auditor-General's report and refused to let the parliament see the conclusions of the Auditor-General's report on the basis of national security. I then had to go to the AAT to get a ruling that said: 'Do you know what? It's not sensitive.' So it has now been made available to the parliament. That's poor judgement, poor judgement, poor judgement. And we have two whistleblowers suffering for this, both witness K and Collaery.</para>
<para>I give credit to Senator Carr for pursuing this at estimates. What is the public interest in this prosecution? These are gentlemen who called out misconduct—an abhorrent breach of good faith with the country of East Timor. I've been to Timor; I've sat and talked with the Timorese and I've had a meeting with the chief of staff of the president. They all consider witness K and Bernard Collaery to be heroes, and they're disgusted with Australia's prosecution of their two heroes. They're disgusted to the point that they're minded to cooperate with countries that we might consider not to be in our interests for them to cooperate with. When I went to the southern plateau of Timor-Leste I could see 32 kilometres of a dual-carriageway freeway that had been built by the Chinese. I saw the power lines that have been built by the Chinese and I saw the ports that are being built by the Chinese. It turns out that the Chinese are a much better friend to East Timor than Australia is, as anyone who looks through the lens of this prosecution would reasonably determine.</para>
<para>Senator Carr asked this question of the CDPP: what is the public interest in prosecuting these two gentlemen? As a supplementary, I asked whether or not our relationship with East Timor had been considered in that public-interest determination. And the answer was that it hadn't been. So we haven't considered this properly. Let's set aside the fact that these two people are heroes; we haven't considered what this is doing to our relationship with Timor-Leste. It is not in the public interest to proceed with this prosecution. It hasn't properly been considered. As I called for in my motion, I think the Attorney-General needs to exercise her powers under section 71 of the Judiciary Act to decline to continue this prosecution.</para>
<para>Now, of course, the answer from the Attorney-General is: 'Well, this power has never been used before.' That's not a reason not to use it properly. It was put in the act because the parliament expects the Attorney-General to have responsibility to the parliament as to prosecution. We give the Attorney-General these powers, and there are times when the Attorney-General should exercise these powers—not simply say, 'The powers have never been used before, so I'm too afraid to use them'. Sure, it might be the fact that it calls for an exceptional set of circumstances. In the case of Richard Boyle, we even got Senator Scarr asking pertinent questions of the CDPP as to whether this was an exceptional case, and getting the answer: 'Yes, it is,' and yet the Attorney-General was still not willing to exercise those powers.</para>
<para>We need to understand: this is not in the public interest. There's a requirement, if you are going to prosecute someone, to establish that there is public interest in doing so. Yet, when Senator Carr has asked the question, and when I asked the question in question time today, no-one could tell the public what that interest is. We've got a public interest that's so secret the public can't even know about it. And that is a problem.</para>
<para>So this government should clearly state what the public interest is in the case of witness K and Collaery—and also in the case of David McBride and that of Richard Boyle. They should clearly state that. I'm calling on the Attorney-General to exercise her power to decline to continue this prosecution, because it serves no public good.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, too, rise to speak to this motion. I wish to just pick up on a couple of points that Senator Patrick raised. He talked about the IGIS and he talked about the processes that are in place, so I'd like to touch on a couple of those and then move on to talk a bit about our relationship with East Timor and the very strong basis Australia has in that relationship.</para>
<para>The issues around disclosure were well explored in the report by the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security on the impacts of national security legislation on freedom of the media. Whilst it is not directly on this case, it goes to many similar issues, and I would encourage anyone who has an interest in these issues, and in why there are some matters that are not placed into the public domain, to read that report and understand many of the considerations which executive government—whether the Labor Party or the coalition—has in deciding what is or should be made public. So that's one fact.</para>
<para>There is another fact for governments—and this is recognised by all governments around the world; it's even recognised by many of the civil society players who came and gave evidence, including evidence about media freedoms given by members of the media. There is information which a government should hold secret, and there is the protective framework around protecting information that gives information certain levels of classification. Now, if that is going to have effect, what that means is that people who are officials of the Commonwealth have a higher duty than people in, perhaps, the media or the general public to protect that information to which they are given privileged access, because if they don't fulfil that obligation of protecting that information then the framework and the basis upon which government can hold information classified is compromised. And so, importantly, is the trust of allies, who are prepared to cooperate with Australia on the basis of the fact that we have a system to protect information that is sensitive and classified and may go to national interest issues. If that system is not upheld and protected, then our own government and our own national interest are compromised, but so too is our relationship with, and the trust from, other partners who we work with. As a member of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Intelligence and Security, and also someone who served in Defence for over 22 years as a full-time officer, I recognise the incredible importance of trusted relationships with allies. So all of that goes to having frameworks which are effective and have integrity because they are maintained.</para>
<para>We recognise, though, as a country, that there are times when either individual or collective things happen which the Australian public would think are not appropriate. There is a method; Senator Patrick mentioned this. Through the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, people who work within our intelligence agencies have the option under the Public Interest Disclosure Scheme to highlight, to an independent authority who has the ability to investigate, actions that they believe are disclosable incidents. Section 29 of the Public Interest Disclosure Act gives a long list of things, which I won't run through here, that are disclosable. It then talks about things that are not disclosable just because somebody disagrees with a policy or an action et cetera of government—again, the list that people can refer to is laid out there. But the important part that I think needs to be highlighted here is that, once an eligible person makes a disclosure to a proper authority, they are provided with legal protection from reprisals that result from that disclosure. So there is a process. If the process is followed and if everything is in accordance with the requirements of the legislation as to what can be disclosed and why, then they are provided with legal protection. Without commenting on the court case that is occurring at the moment, I just want to highlight the fact that action has been taken. The legislation is designed so that someone who has a valid concern and has abided by the process will be provided with protection. I will leave my comments there on that matter.</para>
<para>I think it's important that the Australian public have confidence that people who work within our agencies, whether Defence, ASIO, ASIS or the Australian Signals Directorate—a range of bodies who work on behalf of the Australian population dealing with sensitive issues—are charged with an obligation to protect. There are criminal penalties that they are liable to if they make unauthorised disclosures. But we do provide avenues, whether through the Ombudsman for some or through the IGIS, the independent Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, for people in relevant agencies whereby they can make those disclosures. If they make those disclosures and they have not done anything else, then they are protected legally.</para>
<para>In terms of East Timor, I think it is appropriate that we highlight the fact that Australia has a deep partnership with East Timor at a range of levels, at person-to-person as well as government levels. I think the visit by Prime Minister Morrison and Foreign Minister Payne in August 2019, to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the referendum that led to their independence and also to bring the Maritime Boundary Treaty into force, opened a new chapter in Australia's relationship with Timor-Leste. There is a high level of engagement. There is a focus on cooperation, including ongoing humanitarian support—whether that's in things like the floods that were there in April or in supporting Timor-Leste with the response to COVID-19. Australia continues to fund a range of humanitarian and other support as well as providing goods in the humanitarian effort in relief supplies, including medical things such as oxygen during the COVID crisis as well as fresh water and evacuation centres, and facilitating and funding access by NGOs like the World Food Programme to assist those people who are affected.</para>
<para>So there are a range of measures that Australia is taking in the current environment, particularly renegotiating the bilateral boundary, which I think has been an important reset in that relationship with Timor-Leste. Timor-Leste ministers and officials have publicly acknowledged and thanked Australia for our support, and Timor-Leste's appreciation has been conveyed to our Minister for Foreign Affairs by their minister for foreign affairs. As well their Prime Minister has expressed his thanks to our Prime Minister for that ongoing support. They recognise that the prosecutions here are a matter for Australia under our law. But those prosecutions have not prevented the substantial improvement in the bilateral relations which have taken place in recent years.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This question today gives rise to serious conversation about what we mean by our international reputation and what we mean by our concern when we provide advice to the world about our moral standards when it comes to human rights and our attitudes when it comes to the rules based order. We are only too happy and very quick off the mark to offer advice to authoritarian regimes about our moral superiority in international relations. Therefore, if we are to do that, I think that we have to ensure that in our own activity—that is, Australia's activity—such as the matters that have just been referred to by Senator Fawcett in terms of questions of trust, matters about questions of integrity, questions that go to the deep partnerships with our allies, we have to actually demonstrate those things in practice ourselves. It strikes me that the circumstances that have arisen in regard to Witness K and the prosecution of Witness K's lawyer, Bernard Collaery, raise serious doubts about just what levels of legal protection are, in fact, available to officers that draw attention to what they believe to be the inadequacies of our diplomacy and our international behaviour in terms of those benchmarks.</para>
<para>The allegations that ASIS had bugged the East Timor government's cabinet room in 2004 have, in fact, outraged many Australians, and so they should. But so should the prosecution of two men who revealed what I think, if true, is nothing short of shameful conduct. These prosecutions have been largely conducted in secret. They are prosecutions of people who claim to be whistleblowers, people who thought they had the protection of the legal mechanisms that Senator Fawcett has referred to, making allegations of serious misconduct which involved criminal behaviour not just by Australian government agencies but possibly by senior ministers in the Howard government as well. The possibility of that involvement by ministers might explain why the Morrison government has insisted on a cloak of secrecy around these very prosecutions even though the offence that Witness K and Mr Collaery have alleged occurred 17 years ago.</para>
<para>We don't know why the former Attorney-General, Christian Porter, has actually authorised the prosecutions. I want to emphasise that—he's authorised the prosecutions. What we do know is that his predecessor, George Brandis, on several occasions declined to do so. Nor do we know why it is, as publicly explained, Mr Porter has instructed his lawyers to intervene in the pre-trial proceedings against Mr Collaery on several occasions to seek even greater secrecy on the way in which the trial is conducted.</para>
<para>Mr Porter had always refused to explain why it was in the public interest to prosecute these men, who had revealed what was, in their minds, shameful conduct by the Australian government. Mr Porter's successor, Senator Cash, who's here today, hasn't provided any explanation either. In fact, she said in question time, as I understood her, that this was a matter of independent action by the CDPP. This has at all times been a highly political trial, and at all times it has involved the actions of the Attorney-General. We don't know why the Commonwealth has gone to such extraordinary lengths and such incredible expense to conduct these secret prosecutions. From the letter to me from the Attorney-General's Department, we now find out it's in excess of $4 million, for a prosecution against two men whose real offence is to reveal some very, very dark aspects of Australian diplomacy.</para>
<para>The claim about the bugging by Australia of a friendly government, that of one our poorest neighbours, is a very serious claim. The Howard government was very proud to be able to make, finally, the assertion that it had helped that country obtain its independence. Australia played a very positive role, particularly in leading an international peacekeeping force there in September 1999. We'd like to think that Australia and East Timor did have a special relationship. The Howard government was very keen to encourage us all to say so. Well, it is extraordinary that that special relationship did not preclude spying on that country's cabinet, and I find that remarkable given that what was at stake was international commercial negotiations about resource allocation and how to carve up an extraordinarily lucrative oil and gas resource in the Timor Sea. It would appear that the Howard government wanted to ensure that the newly independent, impoverished nation of Timor-Leste received as small a share of that resource as was possible. We know that an equitable division of the Greater Sunrise oil and gas field happened only after East Timor commenced proceedings in the International Court of Justice and the Permanent Court of Arbitration. A revised treaty on the oil and gas fields was signed in 2018. That's when Australia behaved honourably.</para>
<para>This shameful behaviour was revealed by Witness K and later shared with the media by, it would seem, Mr Collaery. This has led a former President of East Timor to describe Witness K and Mr Collaery as heroes, as I think has been pointed out. Mr Ramos-Horta said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The people of Timor owe a massive debt to Witness K.</para></quote>
<para>In this country, however, the government has chosen to prosecute these men. The activity of these men did not involve a matter of national security. East Timor is hardly a threat to Australia. What these men alleged to have occurred was not espionage directed at a hostile nation; it was an attempt to obtain an unfair advantage in a commercial negotiation. Nothing in this does credit to Australia. With regard to the secret prosecution of witness K and Bernard Collaery, I can't see how any of it does credit to Australia either.</para>
<para>It has been said, 'Oh, well, it's not really secret; it's just that portions of the proceedings are not in public.' That's the sort of line that we get from the A-G's department. It's the classic Sir Humphrey answer. The fact is that portions of the proceedings that the Australian public would wish to know have been closed. In plain English: the proceedings have been largely kept in secret. And we don't know why they're in secret. It means that an integral part of justice is not being done in a way that can be seen to be done.</para>
<para>I have often said that I am no lawyer, but what I do understand is this: our judicial system is distinguished from many others in so far as it is open and it is clearly different from the way in which authoritarian regimes operate. All governments in Australia have clearly been trying to distinguish themselves as the bearers of democracy. How can we do that if we behave in this manner? How can we offer ourselves as a moral authority from a rules based model when we invade people's civil liberties, invade lawyers' offices in the way that we have and in the way in which we treat people in these types of arrangements?</para>
<para>Of course, it's understood that witness K may well be pleading guilty to part of these proceedings. But in regard to other matters, Mr Collaery has taken the matter up through the various parts of the court. Mr Collaery is contesting the charges laid against him and, in fact, needs access to the information so that the courts can actually proceed to assess his claim. He is prevented from doing that. I remind senators that Mr Collaery is 76 years of age and that he has had a distinguished legal career. He is a former deputy chief minister and A-G, if I have that right, of the Australian Capital Territory. This is the man who we are prosecuting. I just can't see what is in the public interest and, more importantly what is in the national interest, to prosecute this man in this way. The officers before the Senate estimates committee could not explain that to us either.</para>
<para>The zeal with which the government is pursuing him is evident from the proceedings in the Australian Capital Territory's Court of Appeal. Lawyers acting for Mr Collaery challenged the order made last year in the ACT Supreme Court to accept an application by the then Attorney-General, Mr Porter, to invoke the National Security Information Act. That act, of course, prevents access to the information. The act requires courts to give greater sway to the A-G's views on the security implications of a case. It just highlights the problem here: the act is being used to undermine transparency and open justice in Australian courts. We have no indication of what the national security information might be and we don't have any indication as to what the national interest is that is being served by this prosecution.</para>
<para>The longer the Australian public is kept in the dark about this matter then the more questions are being raised here and internationally about the role of the Howard government and ministers in the events of 2004. Those questions will not go away no matter how much effort is put into the suppression of information concerning witness K and Mr Collaery. The proceedings that we have before us in the courts in the Australian Capital Territory are highlighting a very dangerous shift towards greater and greater emphasis on security over accountability in the government of this country. We've seen a rapid escalation in the misuse of the legal system to suppress people's rights, and I can only suggest that this is a stark reminder of how far this government will go to destroy the credibility of whistleblowers and undermine open justice. This whole matter ought to be reviewed by the new Attorney-General, and we should go back to the position that Senator Brandis presented when he was in that post.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Many Australians were shocked this week that the Prime Minister would step away from a G7 meeting—a meeting ostensibly about tackling the greatest challenge of our time, climate change, and about nations decarbonising through a green led recovery from COVID—and do a personal address to the APPEA, the Australian Petroleum Production & Exploration Association in Perth, where over 2,000 companies in the fossil fuel sector were meeting. He addressed this conference personally from London and issued 80,000 square kilometres of new ocean acreage for these companies to carve up and profit from, putting our oceans at risk.</para>
<para>If Australians are shocked at the influence of the oil and gas industry on this government then they will be especially shocked and outraged at the story and the matter that we are debating in the Senate today, which relates to Bernard Collaery—an Australian lawyer, who I'll talk about in a minute—and a whistleblower, witness K. Unfortunately, we don't know his name. In fact, we know very little about this courageous man except that he stepped forward with moral conviction and blew the whistle on something he thought was wrong and in the public interest.</para>
<para>I want to read from an article that anyone can access online. It's from redflag.org and is titled "Gangsters for capitalism: Downer, Woodside and 'Witness K'". It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In 2004, then foreign minister Alexander Downer presided over an Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS) operation to install listening devices in the offices of the government of the newly independent, and desperately poor, nation of East Timor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The operation, which was carried out under the cover of an aid project, aimed to give Australia an advantage in negotiations over a new maritime border between the two countries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Among the main stakeholders in these negotiations was Australian oil and gas giant Woodside Petroleum. Woodside leads a consortium of companies with rights to exploit gigantic reserves in the Greater Sunrise oil and gas fields, which lie in the Timor Sea around 150km from East Timor and 450km from Darwin.</para></quote>
<para>Senator Patrick has already gone into some of the history about East Timor and Australia and the toing and froing between the two nations. Essentially East Timor, as they would as a poor country, wanted to lay claim to these fields. It turns out that in negotiations, according to this article, Australia 'played hardball'. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At one point in the negotiations, Alexander Downer reportedly shouted across the table "Your claims go almost to Alice Springs. You can demand that forever for all I care. We are very tough … Let me give you a tutorial in politics—not a chance".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Perhaps part of the reason why Downer could be so "tough" was that, thanks to ASIS—</para></quote>
<para>and the bugging of the Timorese cabinet—</para>
<quote><para class="block">he knew exactly what the Timorese negotiating strategy would be.</para></quote>
<para>I differ slightly from Senator Carr. I know many Australians were outraged when they heard that we would bug the cabinet of a poor nation to get a national advantage. But I don't know, sadly, in this day and age, whether Australians would actually be that surprised or outraged that we might do that to a foreign country in our national interest. What I can absolutely assure you is that they would be deeply shocked and surprised if they knew that these negotiations were actually to get a commercial interest to favour a series of corporations and a large fossil fuel project.</para>
<para>It hasn't been pointed out yet in debate today that witness K, an intelligence analyst, came forward to blow the whistle on this when, in 2008, four years after Alexander Downer authorised this bugging of the Timorese cabinet, Alexander Downer left the government and got a job at Woodside Petroleum. The revolving door between politicians and Woodside Petroleum is on the public record, and it is a significant cause for concern. Woodside are one of the biggest donors in this place, giving $1.4 million to the coalition and to Labor. But when Witness K, a man who'd served our country, saw that the man that had presided over this had personally benefited from his role as a senior minister in bugging the East Timorese cabinet and aided and abetted the highway robbery that occurred on behalf of Woodside Petroleum and other fossil fuel interests, he blew the whistle. Do you know why? It was probably because he thought it was corrupt. We may never know exactly what he thinks, because these trials are going be held in secret. But this revolving door between senior ministers and profit-seeking corporations who they have just exerted influence over is seen by many in the community as corruption, if not personal corruption then institutional corruption—a corruption of the institutions of our democracy. That is an important distinction that I would like to make and another reason why we continually push for an independent commission against corruption.</para>
<para>It's also been outlined in the debate today that Witness K, this brave whistleblower, sought legal advice and went through the correct channels to do so. It turns out that his lawyer, Bernard Collaery, has now also been dragged into this. He's been charged by the Australian government, by the Attorney-General, and faces up to 10 years imprisonment for representing a client. I want to take the opportunity today to say some words about Bernard Collaery, because, while many people have read his name in the paper and have read about Witness K, they probably don't know much about the man Bernard Collaery. As I highlighted, we'll probably never know much about Witness K.</para>
<para>Three words describe Bernard Collaery: courageous, honourable and compassionate. In fact, the depth of this man's compassion is endless, and to many people he is a true hero. Let me tell you why. Over the years, as a lawyer, he's taken on countless pro bono human rights cases. He's advised the East Timor resistance for over 30 years. He represented plaintiffs in the Thredbo landslide, Canberra bushfires and Royal Canberra Hospital implosion cases. He founded the Immigration Reform Group. He represented West Papuan refugees and Vietnamese boat people over many decades. He drafted the discrimination act as Attorney-General of the Australian Capital Territory. He is an honorary solicitor for Aboriginal health services, the Australian Bravery Association, the National Brain Injury Foundation—and the list goes on and on. He was awarded the 2020 UK's Blueprint for Free Speech prize, which is awarded to whistleblowers in recognition of bravery, integrity and commitment to the public interest. He was awarded the 2018 Australian Lawyers Alliance Civil Justice Award, which is awarded to an individual who has made a significant contribution to the pursuit of civil liberties in Australia What justice is being served by this prosecution? What is it about this man that sounds like he's a criminal? He is not. He is not a criminal. Yet this government is treating him and Witness K like criminals. It goes without saying that the acts they exposed certainly raised very serious questions, including, at the senior levels of the Howard government, about criminality. While the rest of the country, even the world, celebrates this man's courage, bravery, integrity and commitment, the Australian government is continuing to prosecute him and to drag out this prosecution and make his life a misery.</para>
<para>This prosecution is one of the gravest acts of this government and one of the greatest threats to freedom of expression in this country right now. The world is on the side of Bernard Collaery, and the Australian government is on notice. This debate today is just one of many things that will be happening in relation to this. It's on notice that those who speak up for justice and for the rule of law in this country will not be silenced.</para>
<para>I will finish up, because I understand that there are other speakers. But I would like to acknowledge Chloe Preston, who has worked as a staffer in my office, in Rex's office and Senator Xenophon's office. Chloe Preston was a young barrister who was working for Bernard Collaery when his office was first raided by the Federal Police in relation to these charges. Chloe had to represent Bernard in court while he was overseas. As someone who had only been in the job for a few weeks she was well and truly thrown in at the deep end. She has maintained an abiding interest in and friendship with Bernard Collaery, Senator Patrick and a number of people over the years, and she feels very deeply about this issue. I've reflected her words in the Senate today, and I'm very proud to have read them into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> on her behalf and on behalf of all those Australians who deeply care about this issue.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Unfortunately, due to a lack of time, I won't be able to say quite as much as I had hoped on this—and I know Senator Green was hoping to make a contribution as well, which time will probably prevent as well. But I will say as much as I can to put a few more things on record on behalf of Labor and our position on this. I would like to thank Senator Patrick for moving this motion, as it raises a number of important matters that go to the heart of how the justice system within a robust democracy such as ours should operate. In particular, the matters addressed in this motion relate to the principle of open justice, which is a fundamental principle for all justice systems in democratic nations. It is a principle summarised in the adage that 'justice must not only be done; it must be seen to be done'. In addition, the subject matter of this motion as well as the motion itself are directly relevant to how the doctrine of separation of powers operates or should operate at a federal level.</para>
<para>First, let me address some of the background that led to the current situation in which two men, Mr Bernard Collaery and a former intelligence officer known only as Witness K, are being prosecuted for offences in circumstances that have caused concern to many Australians, including many members in this place. The factual background to the matter relating to events that are alleged to have occurred in 2004, during the period of the Howard government, remains a matter of contention. Given that it is relevant to the prosecutions now underway, it is not appropriate for me to revisit those matters now by discussing in detail now what has already been discussed extensively in the media over a number of years. However, Labor has been deeply concerned by the manner in which these contentious and highly sensitive matters have been mishandled by this Liberal government since shortly after they took office in 2013.</para>
<para>On 3 December 2013, only three months after becoming Attorney-General, in the first of a disastrous succession of failures that was the Abbott government, Senator George Brandis issued a media release proudly announcing that he had authorised ASIO to raid the offices of East Timor's lawyer based in Australia and a former Attorney-General of the ACT, Mr Bernard Collaery. Mr Collaery's files were seized during this raid. In addition, Witness K's passport was seized. This public raid and announcement occurred just two days before hearings were due to start in East Timor's case against Australia at the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague. This arbitration was to settle an extremely sensitive dispute between East Timor and Australia regarding the treaty on certain maritime arrangements in the Timor Sea.</para>
<para>Labor expressed our concern at the time that these raids were likely to damage Australia's relationship with East Timor as well as Australia's regional and international reputation. Specifically, we expressed concern that, instead of resolving our legal dispute and helping to normalise relations with East Timor, which was already strained by the subject matter of the arbitral proceedings, the timing and ham-fisted public handling of the raids by then Senator Brandis only further exacerbated tensions.</para>
<para>Immediately after the raids, on 4 December 2013, Timor-Leste's then Prime Minister, Xanana Gusmao, issued a statement called on Australia to explain its actions, He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The actions taken by the Australian Government are counterproductive and uncooperative. Raiding the premises of a legal representative of Timor-Leste and taking such aggressive action against a key witness is unconscionable and unacceptable conduct. It is behaviour that is not worthy of a close friend and neighbour or of a great nation like Australia.</para></quote>
<para>As a consequence of these raids, in March 2014, Australia was brought before the International Court of Justice, accused by East Timor of breaching its sovereignty and related principles of international law. The Abbott government contested these allegations but the International Court of Justice ruled against Australia for the first time in our nation's history, in a comprehensive and humiliating manner. The International Court of Justice even took the rare step of refusing to accept undertakings made by former Senator Brandis regarding the materials seized from Mr Collaery in the raids, and instead made a series of orders against Australia. Not only was this embarrassing to Australia in our region and in the wider international community; it compromised Australia's hard-earned reputation as a country that conducts itself as a responsible global citizen and that respects the international rule of law.</para>
<para>The key matters that had been the subject of the dispute between Australia and East Timor were finally resolved, with a new treaty signed between our nations in March 2018. However, for reasons that remain unclear to this day, in June 2018—only three months after the new treaty arrangements were agreed—former Senator Brandis's replacement as Attorney-General, now the former Attorney-General, Christian Porter, personally authorised the prosecution of both Mr Collaery and witness K. While the Commonwealth DPP recommended the prosecution of Mr Collaery and witness K, because the prosecution relates to alleged breaches of section 39 of the Intelligence Services Act, a prosecution can only proceed with the approval of the Attorney-General. Labor has been calling for the Morrison government to explain why it suddenly authorised these prosecutions, given the charges relate to events alleged to have occurred in 2004 and alleged to have involved senior members of the Howard government. To date the Morrison government has refused to provide the public with an explanation for the decision by its former Attorney-General to authorise these prosecutions.</para>
<para>Labor has also expressed concern at reports that Mr Porter instructed his lawyers to intervene in the pre-trial proceedings against Mr Collaery on multiple occasions in order to press the court to cast a greater cloak of secrecy over the trial. This has reportedly led to considerable further delay and cost, and in so doing increased the stress and financial hardship to the accused. In June 2020 the Morrison government admitted that they had already spent over $2 million on the prosecutions, even though they had not even progressed to the trial stage. By estimates hearings in October last year the government were forced to admit that more than $3 million had been spent on these prosecutions. The figure has continued to go up and up and up; time doesn't permit me to go into great detail, but it's likely now that we are at more than $4 million of taxpayers funds—and a date for the trial has still not been set.</para>
<para>In estimates last month Labor senators asked a number of questions around how these prosecutions are in the public interest. We raised a number of points, such as the lack of progress in these two prosecutions; the enormous cost to the taxpayer in funding them; the fact that the prosecutions relate to events that are alleged to have occurred 17 years ago; and the fact that there has been no suggestion of either of the accused posing any threat to the public. We are still waiting for answers from this government about how these prosecutions serve the public interest.</para>
<para>I also want to acknowledge the concerns raised by many Australians that, far from serving the public interest, these prosecutions may in fact be contrary to the public interest. Both Mr Collaery and witness K claim to be whistleblowers. If that is in fact the case, then it is very difficult to see how the Morrison government's attempt to prosecute them can be in the public interest. To the contrary, the prosecution of whistleblowers for revealing wrongdoing is likely to intimidate those who would reveal wrongdoing, and, in so doing, can only encourage corruption and undermine transparency, accountability and the rule of law. Unfortunately, the Morrison government has a track record of responding to revelations of corruption in government by attacking those brave enough to reveal it rather than investigating the allegations and holding wrongdoers to account. We have seen this again and again as the Prime Minister has sought to sweep under the carpet scandal after scandal involving his own ministers.</para>
<para>In April this year former New South Wales DPP Nicholas Cowdery said that these prosecutions in fact undermine confidence in the justice system and that the Commonwealth prosecutors were wrong to deem that these prosecutions were in the public interest. He said that the wrong parties are being prosecuted. My colleague in the other place the member for Fenner has been active on this issue, and has pointed out that the government has an unexplained decision to spend millions of dollars on these prosecutions and that the trials are being conducted in secret.</para>
<para>Mr Collaery and the former intelligence officer known as witness K are, like all other Australians, entitled to a fair trial before a court of law. Even though we understand witness K has just today pleaded guilty, that in no way lessens his right to due process, including in relation to sentencing. Moreover, Labor strongly supports the principle of open justice, which dictates that judicial processes should be conducted in public unless the presiding magistrate or judge determines there are compelling reasons to close the court. We in Labor do not consider that embarrassing the Prime Minister or other members of the Liberal Party is a compelling reason to close the court.</para>
<para>Secret trials are not something the Labor Party or indeed any Australian who values our democratic values and heritage should countenance. While we acknowledge that there may be national security or privacy reasons for certain parts of a trial to be held behind closed doors, this government has shown that it seeks to act behind a cloak of secrecy at every opportunity for every scandal it is involved in. Many Australians are concerned about the prosecutions, which is why I welcome the opportunity to speak on the motion. For the reasons I have outlined today, it's more important than ever that the Morrison government provide a detailed explanation as to why the prosecutions are in the public interest.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>3233</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Paradise Dam</title>
          <page.no>3233</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McGRATH</name>
    <name.id>217241</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor in Queensland are not building dams; they are tearing down dams. It has been 632 days since the farmers of the Wide Bay-Burnett region were told that the Palaszczuk Labor government would be flushing water from Paradise Dam out to sea and tearing down the dam wall. It has been 632 stressful days, 631 sleepless nights, and they are still waiting for Premier Palaszczuk to get out of her ivory tower and tell them the one simple thing that could put their minds at ease: when will she restore their dam? That's all she has to do. All we are asking Premier Palaszczuk to do is to tell the farmers of the Wide Bay-Burnett region that she will restore Paradise Dam. The destruction of this dam wall has meant a billion dollar hit to the economy of Wide Bay-Burnett. All they want is a simple rebuild of a dam. But, of course, we've got Labor in Queensland—Labor in Queensland who don't go around building dams; they're tearing down dams. We wanted to get Labor in Queensland to build Urannah Dam—but, oh, no, nothing there. Since 2003 there have been 20 dams built in Australia and 16 of those have been built in Tasmania. What have Labor done in Queensland? Nothing; shamefully nothing.</para>
<para>This week the machinery began packing up and moving away from Paradise Dam. Next month the workers camp buildings will be removed. Whilst Sunwater have promised a dam improvement project will involve activities over a number of years, 'the timing is to be confirmed', which is the political equivalent of, 'I'll call you in the morning.' This is how the state Labor government treat the farmers of the Wide Bay-Burnett. Last month my colleague the Minister for Agriculture, Drought and Emergency Management, David Littleproud, compared the Paradise Dam fiasco to an episode of the ABC's <inline font-style="italic">Utopia</inline>. But even that program, on its best day, could not dream up a debacle of this magnitude.</para>
<para>I would like to applaud the efforts of local farmers and business owners who have raised more than $1 million to fund a class action with the help of Tom Marland and Marland Law. I would encourage those who are listening to support this class action. But it should not have to come to this. People should not have to sue their own government to get answers and fair compensation for such a massive economic hit created by government incompetence.</para>
<para>The very real and significant strain this has put on families throughout the region is serious. This should be beyond party politics. I would like to recognise OzHelp for their brilliant work in holding a mental health support and suicide prevention workshop in Bundaberg last month. I would like to also commend the efforts of Bundaberg fruit and vegetable growers, Marland Law, the state member for Burnett, Stephen Bennett, the state member for Callide, Colin Boyce, and the federal member for Hinkler, Keith Pitt, on their efforts to make the state Labor government see sense. Six hundred and thirty-two days is a long time to wait for an answer. Please, Premier Palaszczuk, do the right thing and rebuild Paradise Dam.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Superannuation</title>
          <page.no>3234</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARIELLE SMITH</name>
    <name.id>281603</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today we've seen the latest in a long line of government attacks on superannuation in Australia—dirty deals done that ripped up the business of this chamber in order to ram through destructive and disastrous changes to superannuation, changes that prioritised the self-interest of individuals in this chamber over the security and wellbeing of the working Australians outside of it. It is a disgrace—and it's just the latest in a long list of disgraceful acts from this government on superannuation.</para>
<para>We've had a formal Liberal Prime Minister describing super as 'a con'. We've had repeated calls from senators opposite to delay legislated superannuation increases. We've had the government's decision to force those struggling during the pandemic to raid their super just to get by, disproportionately affecting those with minimal superannuation balances. And we've had the unbelievable, unfathomable suggestion from the government that those fleeing abusive relationships should raid their super in order to leave. Of course, last night were the extraordinary things muttered by a Liberal senator in this place, who described super as a 'lie' and said that it was time to kill superannuation 'stone-cold dead'.</para>
<para>These are Liberal senators—they are members of this government. They are former prime ministers from the other side, and their actions are disgraceful. Make no mistake: when the Liberals attack your super, they attack your financial security. When the Liberals attack your super, they attack your dignity in retirement. When the Liberals attack your super, they attack your future. The Liberals come after superannuation for one reason, and one reason only: they want to take power away from you. They want to take power away from hardworking Australian families, and it is not hard to guess why. But if we let them keep attacking your superannuation, do you know who will suffer most? Young people, who have already been disproportionately forced to raid their superannuation during this pandemic; women, who are more likely to have less super and less security in their retirement; and low-income Australians—hardworking Australian families.</para>
<para>I'm here to reassure South Australians tonight that Labor will never, ever stop fighting for your superannuation. Super is a proud Labor reform. We introduced it because we believe that every single Australian—every single Australian—no matter how much they earn, deserves dignity in their retirement. We believe that every Australian—every Australian—deserves financial security. And we believe that every Australian deserves a whole lot more than what they're getting from this government.</para>
<para>Our superannuation system in Australia is the envy of the world. Its brilliance is in its universalism and its security—the very universalism and security that those opposite want to take away. Labor will never allow it. Labor will never stand for it because we're on the side of hardworking Australians who deserve financial security in their retirement and who deserve dignity in their retirement. We're on the side of the women who are working harder and harder every year but see their superannuation balances not matching anywhere near those of the other gender. We're here for young people who have watched their superannuation balances go down and down during this pandemic because they had to raid them to survive. We're on their side. We're on the side of working Australians. We're on the side of superannuation, and we will never, ever stop fighting for it.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Securities and Investments Commission</title>
          <page.no>3235</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the failed IPO of software company Nuix that left thousands of investors devastated and yet made many in a very exclusive club vastly rich. It pocketed Macquarie Bank over $565 million in the float and $24 million in fees. Its remaining stake was worth another $500 million and probably accounted for at least 50 per cent of the profits of Macquarie Capital that financial year. It was a billion-dollar payday for Macquarie, and helped to deliver the Macquarie CEO a $20 million bonus for the 2020-21 financial year. And yet mere months after the IPO the share price plummeted by around 75 per cent, wiping almost $3 billion off the value of shares bought by everyday investors who bought them at the IPO or subsequently. How could ASIC allow this to happen?</para>
<para>Aperion Law wrote multiple letters of complaint on behalf of a client, warning ASIC about the Nuix prospectus, despite being given only the statutory seven-day period to provide comments on a 320-page document. This is how it went. Aperion Law sent its first letter on 23 November 2020, regarding the inclusion of a risk disclosure in the Nuix prospectus that provided an effective carve-out for fraud, tax evasion and money laundering. Aperion Law then sent a second letter on 25 November 2020, this time querying whether the financial forecasts included in the prospectus were properly signed off by the relevant Nuix executives. After receiving no response to the first two letters, Aperion Law sends a third letter directly to acting chair Karen Chester, commissioners Armour, Hughes and Press, and ASIC's chief operating officer, outlining its very significant concerns about Nuix's prospectus. Why, then, given this concerted effort by Aperion, did ASIC fail to properly act on these very valid and prescient complaints? Why had they not done the due diligence and follow-up necessary in response to the Aperion Law inquiries?</para>
<para>Commissioner Cathie Armour was sent a detailed list of the issues with the prospectus. Armour was the general counsel of Macquarie Capital before taking her role as commissioner at ASIC. This is the very same Macquarie Capital that made almost $600 million from this IPO. What did Commissioner Armour not investigate? Why did she not investigate? What contact did she have from Macquarie, in regard to this IPO, that led her to such a complete abdication of responsibility in this regard? Did she even read the Nuix prospectus? Did any of her fellow commissioners at ASIC read and act on concerns validly raised, with some desperation, in three separate communications by Aperion? Acting chair Karen Chester, too, utterly failed in her duties. I've heard, from whistleblowers, that she was too busy dealing with the internal politics of ASIC, manoeuvring to become a permanent chair and building her own cliques within ASIC, rather than effectively prosecuting the job she was actually hired to do.</para>
<para>The failure of ASIC to appropriately regulate Nuix's IPO has had catastrophic consequences for all investors except Macquarie Bank, the Nuix and Macquarie executives in the know, and offshore banks in tax-friendly Vanuatu and Switzerland. This sorry Nuix episode has been a complete failure by ASIC. It must never be repeated.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Environs Kimberley</title>
          <page.no>3236</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to talk about one of the world's most remarkable regions—the Kimberley, in Australia's north-west—and to celebrate the 25th anniversary and the work of Environs Kimberley.</para>
<para>The Kimberley is one of the most remarkable places on the planet. It has the world's oldest living culture. Aboriginal people continue to observe their responsibilities to the land, river, wetlands and seas, as they have done for millennia, despite the hardship and oppression wrought through colonisation. It is one of the few regions of the world where ecosystems are relatively unspoilt. According to scientists who have scanned the globe, the Kimberley has the most intact tropical savanna in the world, despite the damage inflicted by cattle. Its coast is in the top four per cent of the most intact coastlines in the world.</para>
<para>The north Kimberley is listed by the Commonwealth as one of the continent's 15 National Biodiversity Hotspots. It is one of the few places where all of the mammal species known at European colonisation still survive. The west Kimberley has also been National Heritage listed in recognition of 'natural, historic and Indigenous stories of the region that are of outstanding heritage value to the nation'. The Bungle Bungles, which are now properly called Purnululu, are a World Heritage site. The Kimberley is of global significance, and we have a responsibility to the world and to future generations to make sure it is not desecrated by the bulldozer blade for industrial agriculture or the toxic chemicals used in the fracking industry.</para>
<para>The Martuwarra, or Fitzroy River, is one of the world's great remaining intact rivers. A raging torrent after heavy monsoonal rains, it recedes to pools and wetland refuges by the end of the dry season. The river is fundamental to the lives of the people of the Kimberley and is covered by six language groups. Twenty-five years ago a cotton farmer proposed building three dams on the Martuwarra Fitzroy River and its tributaries, as well as a canal system to water crops in the Lagrange area, south of Broome. More than 220,000 hectares of the Kimberley savannah was earmarked to produce GM cotton. Traditional owners were incensed and opposed the destruction of their homeland and river vigorously. That's when a small band of caring and plucky Broome residents got together to support traditional owners and protect the river.</para>
<para>Environs Kimberley, commonly known by those of us that know them and love them as EK, were formed in 1996. They have worked tirelessly and shoulder to shoulder with traditional owners. For eight long years they campaigned to protect the Fitzroy until the proposal was—thank goodness!—withdrawn. Had this proposal gone ahead the Fitzroy River would be in a very different state by now. It would no longer be free-flowing. Its plants and animals would have been devastated. The barramundi would no longer be abundant, and the critically endangered swordfish, which I have spoken of several times in this place, would no longer be thriving. Since that time EK has worked in partnership with others to defend the Kimberley from large-scale industrialisation.</para>
<para>A 2005 WA government plan for developing the West Kimberley resources outlined an industrial scenario for the region centred on a major energy source coming onshore, gas from the Browse Basin. It discussed the mining of lead, zinc, diamonds, iron ore, coal, uranium, tin, heavy mineral sands and onshore oil and gas fracking fields. The fossil gas from the Browse Basin was seen as a power source for an aluminium refinery on the Dampier Peninsula, processing bauxite from the Mitchell Plateau. LPG, methanol, gas to liquid, ammonia and urea production were all mooted as downstream industries. This was an industrial development nightmare for this world significant place.</para>
<para>However, then WA Premier Colin Barnett's dream of turning the Kimberley into the next Pilbara died with the demise—thank goodness!—of the Browse gas project, which would have destroyed James Price Point and ruined Broome. The Broome community saw this vision for what it was: destruction of the Kimberley to benefit shareholders, politicians and business moguls who did not live in the region and would not have to live with the consequences. Woodside's Browse Basin gas, which would have spewed millions of tonnes of carbon dioxide and methane into the atmosphere, will now stay in the ground.</para>
<para>Despite protecting the Kimberley, dark clouds are on the horizon. Texan frackers are in town, along with others, desperately chasing fossil fuels before this toxic industry is shut down. Billionaires are back, wanting to take billions of litres of water out of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River and bulldoze tens of thousands of hectares of the world's most intact tropical savannah. Once again, Environs Kimberley and traditional owners are calling for support to protect the Fitzroy. Just yesterday the Kimberley Land Council demonstrated outside the WA parliament to call for local people's basic human rights to be recognised and respected so that they can protect their heritage and the national heritage listed Fitzroy River. I urge Australians to support Environs Kimberley and the traditional owners to protect the Kimberley.</para>
<para>EK have been at the frontline for a quarter of a century in defending the Kimberley through research, information sharing and advocacy. They are the only environmental organisation in the region. They are advocating for protection and a sustainable economic future that respects nature and culture. They want a sustainable future for the Kimberley and to protect one of the world's largest intact savannahs and one of this country's greatest rivers. But billionaires don't see any of that. They just see the ability to make money.</para>
<para>Traditional owners have a vision for the Kimberley. I think up to 92 per cent of it is covered by native title. They want to do it their way. They want a sustainable future for the Kimberley. I want to say a huge thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to Environs Kimberley for all their work, for their vision, for their actions, for their advocacy and for respecting the rights of the traditional owners of the country in the Kimberley. I wish you didn't have to continue your work. I wish we could say that the area is no longer threatened. But, unfortunately, it is. So, Australia, please support Environs Kimberley and the traditional owners of the Kimberley to continue their work to ensure that this magnificent area of Australia is protected and not destroyed by rent seekers trying to get the last bit out of the fossil fuels in this country because they know they're not going to get away with it for long, so they're desperate to get in now. They shouldn't be allowed in. This should be stopped. Please support the work of Environs Kimberley. Thank you, Environs Kimberley, for your hard work. Keep it up.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 17:51</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>