
<hansard version="2.2" noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd">
  <session.header>
    <date>2018-10-17</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>7</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
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          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Wednesday, 17 October 2018</a>
          </span>
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        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Scott Ryan)</span> took the chair at 09:30, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
        </p>
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    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Corporations and Financial Services Committee</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Meeting</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Religious Freedom Review Expert Panel</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In relation to the Senate order for the production of documents in general business notice of motion No. 1121, moved by Senator Rice and agreed by the Senate yesterday, I confirm for the Senate again, consistent with my letters to the President of the Senate of 19 September, 20 September and 16 October, that the government maintains its public interest immunity claim over the document referred to in the motion, on the grounds that this document informs and is the subject of cabinet deliberations which have not yet been finalised. The Ruddock report was commissioned by cabinet for the express purpose of informing cabinet deliberations in relation to a range of matters related to religious freedom. It was provided to the government in May. In due course, cabinet will finalise its response to the report's recommendations. As such, the deliberative processes of cabinet in relation to the report provided to the government by the expert panel have yet to be completed.</para>
<para>I hasten to add, again, that the deliberative process of cabinet does not just commence with the consideration by the full cabinet of a final submission with a final set of recommendations. The deliberative process of cabinet actually begins with the relevant minister or ministers putting together a draft submission, and the work leading up to the putting-together of a draft submission, which ultimately is destined to be considered by cabinet. Clearly the document referred to in the motion is the central input into a deliberative process of cabinet. While the report and the response have not yet been considered by the full cabinet, the report has already informed and continues to inform the deliberative process of cabinet. As is well recognised in the Westminster system, it is in the public interest to preserve the confidentiality of cabinet deliberations, to ensure the best possible decisions are made following thorough consideration and discussion of relevant proposals within cabinet. The release of this document at this time would harm the public interest, in that it would interfere with the deliberative processes of cabinet and good decision-making.</para>
<para>The government will release the report in due course, following proper consideration of its recommendations by government through the deliberative processes of cabinet. Indeed, we will release the report together with the government's response to it. I would also, again—as I did earlier in the week—refer the Senate to section 125(a)(iii) of the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook</inline>, which makes clear that cabinet documents are any material, relevantly, that is prepared for the purposes of informing the cabinet. For example, it says they include:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Any other papers prepared for the consideration by or for the information of ministers in a Cabinet or committee meeting, such as letters or reports, regardless of whether these documents are circulated in advance of the meeting or provided in the Cabinet Room …</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the minister's explanation.</para></quote>
<para>What a farce. Here we have a review that, yes, was commissioned by government almost a year ago—11 months ago—and given to the Prime Minister on 18 May, which was a full five months ago. It's a report where the key recommendations are now in the public domain, and yet the minister is continuing this nonsense that, for some reason, it's not in the public interest to release the full report. There are no public interest immunity grounds as to why this report shouldn't be released. In fact, there are strong public interest grounds as to why the community deserves to see the background deliberations behind the recommendations which are now in the public domain.</para>
<para>Going to the minister's response and the issue of whether it should be held onto or whether they're actually hiding it—particularly whether they're hiding it before the Wentworth by-election on Saturday—it is ridiculous to say that, by releasing this Ruddock review into religious freedoms, it's going to interfere with cabinet deliberations. The statement is that it would harm the public interest in that it would interfere with the deliberative processes of cabinet. How ridiculous can you get, given that the key recommendations are already out there in the public domain? The Ruddock review is not cabinet deliberations; it is an input into those cabinet deliberations, and there is no need for it to continue to remain a secret document.</para>
<para>We know that having public debate on this review has the potential to influence cabinet deliberations. That is absolutely clear. But the farcical situation we're in, of course, is that that public debate is raging all around us, and, particularly because the recommendations are now in the public domain, we know that public debate is influencing cabinet deliberations on this very issue. We know that because we have got the government, the Prime Minister himself, saying that they're rejecting two of the key recommendations and that they now want to move to remove discrimination against LGBT children in schools—they want to remove that ability to discriminate against children in schools. We know that the recommendations of this review are, in fact, influencing cabinet deliberations, so it is ridiculous that we can't actually see the full report so that we can have more informed public consideration, which I'm sure would further influence cabinet deliberations.</para>
<para>The fact that we aren't able to see this report because it would interfere with the deliberative processes of cabinet does not stand up to scrutiny. It is influencing the public debate; it is influencing cabinet. We have got a situation where, just yesterday, we had a petition from GetUp! with 28,000 signatures calling upon the government to protect the rights of LGBT children, teachers and staff in schools. The Greens have got an online petition that's got almost 10,000 signatures. Advocacy group just.equal have a petition that's got almost 7,000 signatures. There is huge public interest in this issue, and rightly so.</para>
<para>The Ruddock review, and then the leak of these recommendations, has shown just how concerned people are about these issues—how concerned they are about discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children; and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender teachers and other staff in schools. There is only one reason why this document is not being shared with the community now, and it's not because releasing it now would have the potential to influence cabinet deliberations. It's because they do not want the public to see the full body of this review before the Wentworth by-election; before the voters of Wentworth go to the polls. As part of their deliberations into how they are going to vote, the voters in Wentworth deserve to know where the government's thinking is on how much they want to continue discriminating against LGBTI Australians.</para>
<para>There are some worrying recommendations in the Ruddock review, which we have now seen courtesy of the leak to the Fairfax Media. There is the recommendation to continue discriminating against LGBTI students. But the review is not only recommending that not only should we be protecting people's ability to have a religious belief—and the Greens absolutely support having religious belief as a protected attribute in our anti-discrimination laws—but recommending that we should be protecting religious activity as well. Who knows where that religious activity would go? That's just what we're talking about: does religious activity enable the community, on the grounds of religion, to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality or their gender identity? This is very concerning.</para>
<para>The public needs to know what discussion there was in the review about this issue of how far religious activity should be protected. From the Greens perspective, we say, if you're going to be protecting religious activity, you've got to know when that religious activity becomes discrimination. Our view is that you need to have a charter of rights to be able to decide where one person's religious freedom becomes another person's discrimination.</para>
<para>These are important issues, and it is urgent that we act on them. Not acting on them now—not releasing this report—is playing with people's lives in a panicked attempt to hold on to the seat of Wentworth. This report should be released immediately, and we should be legislating immediately, as the community wants. We've got the ability to legislate immediately. Yesterday, the Greens introduced a bill that would remove discrimination in our schools completely. It would remove discrimination against LGBTI students and LGBTI teachers and other staff. We have the opportunity this week in the Senate to legislate. I call upon the government and Labor: if this is so critical and important, as we have now heard them say it is, let's take the opportunity of legislating to remove that discrimination this week. We could do that today. We could stop playing with people's lives. We could remove this discrimination. Now that the community has heard about it and is outraged about it, we could say, 'Yes, we hear your outrage.'</para>
<para>Prime Minister Scott Morrison yesterday said that we need to act 'today', that we need to deal with this issue once and for all, that we need to act right now. We've got the opportunity to do that. We're in control here in this Senate of what we can legislate on. We've got a Greens bill that was introduced yesterday. We could be debating that. We could be moving that and actually turning what are now words saying that we need to end discrimination into real action. We need action on all fronts. We need urgent action, because while these discriminations are still in place and while this debate is ongoing it's basically playing with people's lives. It's a bit of deja vu with the marriage equality postal survey debate that we were having a year ago. LGBTI Australians are still being treated like political footballs. It's just not good enough. We have got the opportunity to end this, to say that we value LGBTI Australians. We know that it's important that they're not discriminated against and that they are valued as much as every other Australian, rather than being played like political footballs. Let us act. Let us remove discrimination, and actually say to every LGBTI student and every LGBTI teacher and other staff member in schools: 'We value you. We know that you are as valued and you are as loved as every other member of your school community,' and say that we recognise that the discrimination that's currently there is unacceptable. We can act, and we could act today to remove that.</para>
<para>I call upon the government to release the full Ruddock review into religious freedoms and then to take the next step and move this week, before the Wentworth by-election, to join the Greens to debate and then legislate to remove discrimination against all lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, gender diverse, intersex and queer Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also seek to speak on this motion to take note of the minister's explanation. I indicate that this is now the third time that the Senate has requested the government to release the Ruddock report into religious freedoms. Although Senator Cormann is claiming public interest immunity under the Westminster system to prevent the release of this document, there is an equally important Westminster tradition, and that's the right of the Senate to make these decisions to request this information. This is now the third time that the Senate has done it and it's the third time that the government has refused to release the document.</para>
<para>It beggars belief that the government could claim that there is public interest in keeping this issue under wraps when of course we have read in <inline font-style="italic">The Australian </inline>and <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney Morning Herald </inline>the recommendations of this report. Somebody in the government wants this document out there, because somebody in the government has released this document to journalists with those two newspapers. If it's good enough for whoever has had access to this document to release it to the newspapers, why is it not good enough for the government to release it to the Senate and then release it to the Australian people? Why is the government seeking to hide behind public interest immunity when the reality is the document has already partly been released?</para>
<para>There is a debate raging in the parliament and in the community about the contents of this document, and yet we don't see it. One reason I guess we might not be given this document is the fact that in three days time there is going to be a by-election in the seat of Wentworth. Malcolm Turnbull was unceremoniously removed from the position of Prime Minister. He has been replaced by Scott Morrison. Scott Morrison is wanting to hold onto his slim majority in the lower house. The government are afraid that, if they release this document and the community gets to see the contents of this document and have a debate about the issue of religious freedoms, that will result in their candidate, Mr Sharma—in fact, he wasn't Mr Morrison's candidate; Mr Morrison wanted another candidate—losing the seat of Wentworth and, as a result of that, the government losing their majority in the lower house. That is not a basis for withholding this document. That can't be a public interest immunity case. That's the political interest of Mr Morrison. The government should not be hiding behind claims of public interest immunity when the reality is that the reason this document has not been released is the political interests of Mr Morrison.</para>
<para>When Mr Morrison became Prime Minister he promised all sorts of changes to the way in which the government is run, but he has fallen at the first test. He was one of those people who wanted this debate on religious freedom. He has got his report and he is now refusing to release it to the Australian people. There are some inconsistencies in just what's happening with this document in the government. We saw yesterday the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Frydenberg, say, 'The report hasn't even been considered by cabinet.' I'll refer to the last time the Senate requested this document to be released on 20 September. Senator Cormann told the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I hasten to add here, in relation to the report of the Religious Freedom Review Expert Panel, which has been received by the cabinet, that the government has not as yet made any decisions on the way forward. The cabinet continues with its deliberations.</para></quote>
<para>Who's right? Is Mr Frydenberg right when he says, 'The report hasn't even been considered by cabinet,' or is Senator Cormann right when he says, 'The cabinet continues with its deliberations.' The reality is that this is a dysfunctional government. In a serious motion dealing with the issue of anti-racism, we saw yesterday that the Attorney-General wasn't able to make a decision on the response of the government to that motion. Minister Cormann wasn't able to make a response to that motion. We found that a junior staffer in a minister's office is now making decisions on behalf of the government. What sort of dysfunctional government are we dealing with here? I know you're shaking your head, Senator Birmingham; I'd shake my head too. Junior staffers are making decisions about government policy for this government. Is it because Prime Minister Morrison doesn't trust his own ministers? Doesn't he trust Minister Porter? Doesn't he trust Minister Cormann? He's now delegating the role to junior staffers to make the decisions.</para>
<para>We've got an important issue here of religious freedom. The community wants a debate. The parliament wants a debate. The Labor Party wants a serious debate on this issue. We've been waiting now for this report for 11 months. Eleven months ago was when the government announced they were going to start this review. They've had the review for five months and, even after that period of time, we still don't have access to this document. The government changed Prime Ministers to have a fresh start, but it simply hasn't happened. We haven't had a new beginning. This is the old government. This is not a new government with new policies. It's continuing to deny the Australian people the opportunity to have a say about this.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McAllister</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's worse.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You're right, Senator McAllister. I think we've actually gone backwards. I think we should have gone with Minister Cormann's preference for Prime Minister. Minister Dutton could not have done a worse job on this issue than the Prime Minister has done. There is still time. There are three days before the Wentworth by-election. There are three days to release this document. The government has to stop hiding behind public interest immunity claims. They have to stop trying to put their political interests ahead of the interests of the Australian people and their right to know and see this document and their right to debate this issue in a sensible, mature way. The reality is, if they don't release the document, there are obviously people in the government who are going to continue to leak this report; we're going to see it drip-fed through the newspapers. That's not the way for a government to run. It's a dysfunctional government. We've seen how this story ends before. The Labor Party have seen how this story ends, and it doesn't end well for the government.</para>
<para>I think the government has to stop hiding behind public interest immunity claims. There is a duty here to the Australian people but, more importantly, there's a duty to the Senate. The Senate has made its determination. The Senate has determined that this report should be released. It's now time for the government to respect the decision of the Senate and to release the report.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support Senator Rice and Senator Farrell in their comments today about the Ruddock report. The Senate required and requested that it be released, but it has not been. I find it to be an insult to the Senate and the Australian public that the Leader of the Government in the Senate can get up here today and say that it's being considered by cabinet, is protected by the public interest defence et cetera when, in fact, his own government—somebody in his own cabinet—released this last week to <inline font-style="italic">The Sydney</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Morning Herald</inline>, and then more of it later on to <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline>, because some people in the government want it out. They want it out there.</para>
<para>I know Senator Farrell says we need to have a debate about it. The debate is going on. The debate's been going on for months. The debate's been going on since the government, under Prime Minister Turnbull, actually announced this sop, and it was a sop, this religious freedom of speech issue. It was put out there so that the Abbotts, the Morrisons and the others who either abstained or voted against the same-sex marriage vote could have some say. Then it went to Ruddock. The government got it in May, and they've sat on it ever since. They've leaked little bits when they wanted to. It should be released in full. It should be out there.</para>
<para>I don't totally let the opposition off the hook on this, because they're demanding the Ruddock statement be released and the report be released, yet, yesterday, they joined with the government to vote me down 47 to 12 on the issue, on my notice of motion, in which I said that any independent school—or its owners or its runners—that discriminates against a student or against a teacher on the grounds of their sexual orientation should not be entitled to government funds or to a charitable status. The ALP joined with the government and voted me down, because they didn't want to see the risk of money being taken away from Catholic schools.</para>
<para>I stand by what I've said about independent schools. If you want to defy the law of the land and want to put your religious credo ahead of the law of the land, you do not deserve one dollar from the Australian taxpayer and you do not deserve a charitable status. That will be challenged, and I shall challenge it as long as I am here.</para>
<para>On the issue of the Ruddock report, it should be released. It must be released. I don't know if it is true that it's being withheld because of the Wentworth by-election, because they were holding it for months and months before former Prime Minister Turnbull actually quit his seat in a tizzy. I don't know if it is tied to the Wentworth by-election, but it must be released. It should be released. We are entitled to it. It does not interfere with religious freedoms for us to have a copy of this report so we can discuss it at length.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>09:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the third time that the government has refused to release the report of the religious freedom review. It's extraordinary. Why is the government afraid to release a report that was commissioned by a coalition government in response to pressure internally from members of the coalition party room and was written by a former minister of a coalition government. It is a coalition document. It is a coalition report. It heads, presumably, in a coalition political direction. Why is it that they are so scared to show the Australian public what it is that they are politically interested in and what it is that they politically believe in? There is just one word, and that word is Wentworth. The by-election in Wentworth has this crowd jumping around like a bunch of kangaroos on the road—they don't know which direction to go in. I'll tell you what, it's pretty dangerous for everybody else involved, because they are creating chaos in all aspects of government decision-making, and that has real consequences for our circumstances domestically and our circumstances internationally. They are presently driven by a primal electoral fear about what is going on in Wentworth. Wentworth, of course, registered one of the highest levels of support for marriage equality during the plebiscite. They are terrified, and they should be. They are terrified by what might happen to their electoral prospects if a proper public debate is able to take place about the contents of that review.</para>
<para>I'll tell you what scares them more. It's the reaction of their party room because, if parts of their party room were given the opportunity to discuss the content of this debate, we'd see even more of the ugliness that they are desperately trying to keep from public view in the lead-up to this by-election. It's been pretty ugly over the last couple of days because this is a government whose senators happily walked in here and sat over there on the affirmative side and voted en masse to say, 'It's okay to be white.' I'm pretty certain they've also got more than a few members who wouldn't be happy to say, 'It's okay to be gay.' That's the problem. That's the debate they are trying to avoid. But the problem is you can't avoid it forever, and this political tactic in the lead-up to the by-election isn't working.</para>
<para>The grounds on which they claim the document needs to be maintained as a confidential document are farcical. A detailed discussion about this document and about recommendations in this document appeared on the front page of the Fairfax papers weeks ago. The recommendations of the Ruddock report have been leaked in full and, if you google them, you can find them. The political consequences, the social consequences, the consequences for children and the consequences for the LGBTIQ community have been debated on the front page of the papers for days, and I can tell you that they're being debated on the ground in Wentworth as well. The Liberal candidate in Wentworth has been forced to comment on the recommendations which were leaked and published in the Fairfax papers. The Prime Minister gave his views on the recommendations last week, and then two days later he gave a different set of views on the recommendations. This is an absolute farce and it makes a mockery of all of the conventions about open government and proper community involvement in the decisions of the parliament and, indeed, the community's ability to contribute to the decisions of cabinet.</para>
<para>Why does the government insist on this debate proceeding publicly in the absence of the actual report from the religious freedom review? I tell you that it is in line with the secrecy that has permeated this review from its very beginnings. It's a review that the government wanted to conduct in the shadows, so initially they refused to release any of the submissions. There were no published transcripts, minutes or even a communique on the consultations that were undertaken by the committee. Earlier this year, I tried to FOI some of the documentation produced by the committee secretariat. That was knocked back. It is difficult to escape the conclusion that this is because the far Right in the coalition party room want to be able to deliver to some of their stakeholders in secret, far from the public eye, and that's just not sustainable. It's not sustainable at all.</para>
<para>Why is it that we're even having the review? You can't forget this. This was a concession that was demanded by the far Right of the Liberal Party as a consolation prize for having been so roundly defeated and so roundly rejected by the Australian public during the plebiscite. There has never been any clearly articulated threat to religious freedom identified by any of the proponents of this review. And, when pressed on it, the Prime Minister could only say, 'Just because things haven't been a problem in the past doesn't mean they won't be a problem in the future.' This is a solution looking for a problem to solve. But there are actually problems right here and right now, in the present, like the right of children to go to a school of their choice and to be supported at a school of their choice irrespective of their sexuality and the right of teachers to do the job that they love without being discriminated against on the basis of who they love.</para>
<para>The Morrison government seems determined to continue the tradition of the Abbott government and the Turnbull government by treating the LGBTI community with the most unbelievable cynicism. We believe that the LGBTIQ community deserves more than to be an object in the government's culture wars. We believe that they deserve support and philosophical consistency, not an opportunistic bounding around, kangaroo style, in the face of this election or that election, or this poll or that poll. There are everyday Australians who, thanks to this government, had to live through a nationwide survey on their right to marry who they love, and now those same Australians have to sit through another conversation about whether people like them ought to be kicked out of their schools. This is 2018. The very least that this government could do is release the report that it commissioned.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to take note as well. I support the statements in relation to the religious freedom review and the implications of that as raised by Senator McAllister, Senator Rice and Senator Hinch. I want to talk about the actual claim made by the government in relation to this document, the claim of cabinet in confidence. I want to talk about the purpose of that doctrine. Going back to the very basics, the purpose of the cabinet-in-confidence doctrine is to protect the confidentiality of cabinet process to ensure that the principle of collective material responsibility is not undermined. That is the fundamental purpose, and I support that purpose and the doctrine, but the protections of that doctrine are limited; they are not unbounded.</para>
<para>Cabinet is not referred to in our Constitution, although I make no contest of the fact that it has legal status, and I once again recognise the role of cabinet and indeed cabinet confidentiality. Cabinet is a creature of convention, not statute; whereas the Senate's oversight powers are a creature of a statute and, in fact, that statute is the ultimate statute and that is the Constitution—section 49 of the Constitution. Of course, statute always overrides both common law and convention.</para>
<para>Both the courts—and I refer the Senate to the High Court case of Sankey v Whitlam back in 1978—and the parliament have powers to call for cabinet documents. The court made it very clear that in the interests of justice that may, in certain circumstances, override the doctrine of cabinet in confidence. I refer people to the Harry Evans lecture last year by Bret Walker SC where he clearly asserted that the parliament ultimately has the same power as the courts. I accept that that absolute power, that absolute right, is one that should be exercised in extremis, and I don't say that it's warranted in this particular case for us to use our absolute power in relation to this particular OPD.</para>
<para>What I will do is turn to <inline font-style="italic">Odgers</inline> and read very briefly from <inline font-style="italic">Odgers</inline>, because that's the norm:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is accepted that deliberations of the Executive Council and of the cabinet should be able to be conducted in secrecy so as to preserve the freedom of deliberation of those bodies. This ground, however, relates only to disclosure of deliberations.</para></quote>
<para>So not documents, and certainly not documents written by an independent person such as Mr Ruddock.</para>
<quote><para class="block">There has been a tendency for governments to claim that anything with a connection to cabinet is confidential.</para></quote>
<para>It's the aroma of cabinet kind of argument. We wield it through the cabinet on a coffee tray, and therefore the Senate is not able to get access to it.</para>
<quote><para class="block">A claim that a document is a cabinet document should not be accepted; as has been made clear in relation to such claims in court proceedings…</para></quote>
<para>I will go on to provide you with what the courts have said in relation to this. The High Court, in the Commonwealth v Northern Land Council, a 1993 decision, said—and this should be listened to carefully:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It should be observed at the outset that the documents for which the Commonwealth claims immunity from disclosure are documents which record the actual deliberations of Cabinet or a committee of Cabinet.</para></quote>
<para>So just the idea that deliberations are occurring is not sufficient to invoke the doctrine. I accept that cabinet submissions may contain, at the very least, the deliberations of the minister advancing the proposition to the cabinet, so I might accept a public interest immunity claim over a cabinet submission. Cabinet submissions have a particular form. They have particular security requirements, as laid out in the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook</inline>. Typically they are no longer than 50 pages. I suspect that, when this document is finally released, we will find that the Ruddock review in no way, shape or form complies with the requirements of the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook </inline>as a cabinet submission.</para>
<para>I point out that this document is an independent report written by Mr Ruddock. He does not express the views as a member of the cabinet, despite his history. So there can be no case to argue that the views of Mr Ruddock in this report, as well informed or as ill informed or as widely briefed as he was, are in any way a deliberation of the cabinet. This document should be produced, for all the reasons I have just talked about. The government is undermining the very doctrine it seeks to rely upon in this instance. It's inappropriate that it should make that claim. The document should be tabled.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>7</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>7</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Fifield, I move:</para>
<para>That the provisions of paragraphs (5) to (8) of standing order 111 not apply to the Treasury Laws Amendment (Lower Taxes for Small and Medium Businesses) Bill 2018, allowing it to be considered during this period of sittings.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>7</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018, Customs Tariff Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>7</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a href="r6165" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6166" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Tariff Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>7</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to go back to a question that I would have liked to ask last night but ran out of time. Could the minister confirm that there are 22 suspended provisions in the TPP that relate to previous US involvement and clarify the status of those provisions if the US rejoins the trade deal and what the process would be at that stage? Does it need to come back to parliament for ratification if a new member joins and new clauses are added to the TPP or are we de facto voting for the contingency that they may be reinstated if the US joins? What actually are we voting on today?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, as I confirmed several times yesterday, there are 22 suspended clauses. As I said several times yesterday as well, they could be reinvoked if the United States rejoins and all parties agree to that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that's what you said, Minister, but I'm seeking more information than that. What is the process for a party like Australia to agree to (a) the inclusion of the US in the deal and (b) the activation of those 22 clauses? Is it a process where the executive and the minister sign a document that says it is okay for the US to join and those clauses to be added, or does it come back to a sovereign parliament, like this chamber, for ratification?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much for that question, Senator Whish-Wilson. My understanding is JSCOT has already considered those clauses; however, if the United States does rejoin the process, all the other parties would then also need to agree to those 22 being reinstated. My understanding is that while JSCOT has already considered those, it would come back to JSCOT.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>So JSCOT has considered those clauses but they are not in this enabling legislation that we're passing today—at least they're not in there physically. But they are suspended clauses. JSCOT, as we discussed yesterday, Minister, is essentially a rubber stamp for the executive, which has already signed the deal. I won't say the same about the FADT inquiry process, because the opposition tends to control that. So if the US rejoins, the minister signs the re-activation of those 22 clauses, and then it goes to JSCOT. JSCOT presumably produces a report. Does that come back to parliament for ratification?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, we've been through this process several times. Again, I can keep giving you the same answer; however, I would point out, as Senator Carr has pointed out very clearly as well, that these are customs amendment bills. These are not a re-prosecution of something that has been addressed very extensively in the community. There have been 1,000 consultations. The parliament has had a look at it at least five times in committees. As you said yesterday, you have been through these issues many times over many years in many estimate processes. So if you would like to keep asking the same question over and over, you will keep getting the same response on these customs amendment bills.</para>
<para>As I said, there are 22 clauses; they have been revoked; however, if the United States does come back in, those 22 have been examined and reported on by JSCOT. You and I both know well the process for treaties here in this parliament and also for consideration. But again, that is the process if the United States comes back in, but it would be an issue for Australian negotiators at the time. Of course, if there are any changes, it would come back to JSCOT. In terms of that, there is no more information I can provide at this time after having gone through it several times now.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If I could just finish this: Minister, you still haven't answered the most important part of my question, which I will repeat for a fourth time. After going to JSCOT, will it come back to parliament for ratification? That's what we're doing now, right? We are ratifying enabling legislation. Will there be separate enabling legislation for those 22 clauses? Will it come to parliament for ratification?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, there is really not much more that I can add to this, because, as I've said—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Answer the question. Yes or no?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, you've asked the question. I will answer it—again and again. It follows the exactly the same standard treaty processes. JSCOT has looked at the current 22 clauses that have now been revoked. If—and again this is a hypothetical—the United States joins and all parties agree to proceed, then it would come back to JSCOT, but again it is hypothetical because, at that re-negotiation at some time in the future, the clauses could be amended, they could be updated, they could be changed. They would go through exactly the same standard treaty process that this has gone through in the first place.</para>
<para>I'm not sure how much clearer I can be that this is a—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You could answer my question: does it come to parliament?'</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's exactly the answer to your question. It follows the exact same process, Senator.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is that a yes?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it follows the exact same process—again, in a hypothetical.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to add to what Senator Whish-Wilson is saying. I just want to point out to the minister that the name of this bill is the Customs Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill. This is the only opportunity for the parliament in its formal sense in the chamber to deal with the enabling of the TPP, and so I would ask that you give substantial latitude and be very cooperative. We're not talking about a customs act; we're talking about the acts of parliament that are required to enable an agreement that has taken a long time to negotiate and has been controversial. To come in here and then try to narrow this down to,' This is just a customs act' is in some sense disingenuous. I just wanted to state that.</para>
<para>Following up from Senator Whish-Wilson's question so as not to create a hypothetical, would the actual terms, as they currently stand—and I understand you've been very helpful by saying it comes back to JSCOT and goes through the process—require some enabling legislation for the treaty to enter into force notwithstanding it comes back to JSCOT? Is there some enabling legislation, not hypothetically, but with the current terms?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, I'm very grateful for that somewhat patronising explanation of these bills. These are both very clearly customs tariff amendment bills and they are customs bill. I would note—as I've noted on multiple occasions now with Senator Whish-Wilson—that the arguments have mostly been in here, and we have spent several hours now on these same issues over and over again. These are issues that don't go to the substance of the bill.</para>
<para>It is absolutely your right to keep trying to re-prosecute the TPP-11 itself. There are other opportunities in estimates next week to go through these issues in more detail, which is probably the more appropriate forum, so that the Senate can get on with other business. However, the substantive question that you've just asked is a complete hypothetical because, as I've explained several times, it depends on: if this did come forward again, the United States joined and all parties agreed, they would have a look and reconsider these 22 clauses. If there are changes, they would come back through the process and go to JSCOT. If there was eventually legislation that came back here as part of those negotiations to change the agreements, of course it would come back through here because it would require the customs bills to be amended. But, again, I have nothing more to add to that because it is hypothetical and the normal parliamentary processes would apply.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This just shows what an absolute disgrace this whole process is that we can't even debate the TPP in the chamber today. That's what the minister is telling us: 'No, nothing to see here. You can't have any influence over it, so I'm not going to answer questions or deal with it properly in this place. Go and deal with it later in Senate estimates after the bill has passed.' No, it's not good enough, Minister.</para>
<para>The Australian people have a right to have these questions answered before the chamber passes this legislation. It may be that the government feels very comfortable because the Labor Party has rolled over and backed in the TPP, so they've got the numbers. That does not mean that the public and the taxpayers deserve to be treated like mugs, and yet that is precisely what the government has tried to do throughout the three days of debate on this bill so far. Senator Whish-Wilson, Senator Patrick and I have all asked specifically what happens to these 22 clauses if the US comes back to the table. If it's a hypothetical, Minister, why are they simply on ice and not deleted?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Very good point! Who puts suspended clauses in trade deals?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>There is no need and no reason for these clauses to be suspended if, indeed, they're only hypothetical. They're sitting there on ice, ready to be warmed up the moment the US enter the fray. We all know that. That's what the public commentary from nations has been about across these negotiations. It'd be timely now to have some honesty, truth and courage from the government, to tell people the facts. The Australian government are prepared to see these clauses back in the TPP negotiations because they're not prepared to tell the US to pull their head in.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think a little bit of history and perspective on this is really important. I think it's commonly accepted that the US—at least stakeholders and interests in the US—initiated the TPP. In my speech on the second reading, I talked a little bit about the failure of the Doha rounds and of multilateral trade deals leading towards 2006. When the TPP fell apart, the idea of a separate multilateral deal being led by the US in the Pacific region was initiated. It was supposed to be finished by 2012, but that was really when it actually started getting interesting, and here we are in 2018 with a version of it. But this was a US led deal. Obama put his signature on this and, of course, led it in the US Congress. He was its biggest champion. And, of course, President Trump made an election commitment that if he got elected—and let's be honest, most of us thought he wouldn't, but he did—he would tear up the TPP, which he has done.</para>
<para>To ignore that this is not a US-driven and US led multilateral trade and investment deal and to say that it's hypothetical that the US might or might not rejoin this deal at some time in the future really is ignoring history. Add that to what Senator Hanson-Young just pointed out: there are suspended clauses in the trade deal—how often do you have suspended clauses in a trade deal, especially a trade deal this size, that are sitting there, waiting?</para>
<para>May I just talk on some of the most egregious aspects of the original Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, especially in relation to things like intellectual property and monopoly pricing for medicines. Even the previous trade minister, Andrew Robb, took the US to task on the kinds of provisions they wanted to put in on the monopoly pricing of medicine. So those clauses are sitting there suspended, waiting to be re-engaged. It is an absolutely critical question to be asking the government at a point, here and now, when we're about to vote on the enabling legislation. Are we basically voting on a contingency for these to be automatically reactivated if the US rejoins the trade deal or, as the minister has pointed out, does it have to go through a process that ultimately involves a sovereign parliament? Remember, we were elected by the people of this country to make the laws and to scrutinise what the government does. That's what the Senate does. That's what we're doing here this morning, and it's extremely important.</para>
<para>Minister, your own government has stood up in here ad nauseam during question time for years talking about how big this deal is—the biggest trade deal in history, the biggest multilateral trade deal, 40 per cent of our economy is covered by it et cetera. As I said, there are 29-plus-plus chapters in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement that literally cover every aspect of our life in this country. Just about every industry and every community is impacted by the TPP, and yet, as I pointed out last night—and I did lose my temper in here—you act as though you're insulted that we're asking questions. Considering the gravity of how important this bill is, how big this deal is and how it's taken 13 years to get to this point—it's extremely controversial, extremely complex and there are thousands of pieces of paper covering an incredible amount of detail—I personally think we could be in here asking you questions for days on this, considering how much detail there is and how many unknowns there still are.</para>
<para>I think you've made it very clear, Minister, that this will come back to parliament if the US rejoins the TPP. I did hear you say in your last statement to Senator Patrick 'only if there's legislation'. I want to narrow that down. I'm being very specific with my questions here. Will it require legislation? I know they may change the clauses and there may be negotiations with our negotiators about the 22 suspended clauses but, if those clauses stand, will they require legislation to be put into any new form of the TPP with US involvement? Will that require coming back to parliament or are we voting on a contingency now for them to be automatically re-engaged, as they are if there are no changes?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, you have asked this several times. I have already answered it several times. Again I will reconfirm—hopefully, for the last time because I've now gone through this several times and I don't think it could be any clearer—that this process follows exactly the same treaty processes that the government has done for decades.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I asked you a specific question. I would like an answer.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll explain it to you. If you don't understand why your question is a hypothetical, let me walk you through why it is a hypothetical built on a hypothetical built on a hypothetical. The first hypothetical is that the United States will re-engage. That is a hypothetical. Then it requires all 11 parties to agree that these provisions will be reactivated and then it requires another hypothetical—that we would agree to any changes negotiated in the process from there. Again, it is the standard processes we have gone through under the current TPP negotiations and the TPP-11. It's no different to now. If legislation is required to amend custom tariff rates, legislation will come through. I cannot say it any clearer. What you are asking over and over again are hypothetical questions that cannot possibly be answered if and until all in this series of events arise.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Temporary Chair, I want to ask a simple question. What is the question before the chair? As I read it, none of the matters on the running sheet have been moved. If that is the case, then I think there is a procedural provision that would require you to put the question to the chamber. What is the procedure that you are following? At the moment there is a general discussion where the same question is asked repeatedly and people are doing nothing but filibustering.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question before the chair is that the bills be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's it?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Nice attempt to shut down debate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Kim Carr</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is not a debate; this is you talking to the wall.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that interjection. This is an extremely important matter, Senator Carr. We're talking about supposedly the biggest trade and investment deal in this country's history. Just because you don't want the detailed answers to questions that we do! I won't let myself be distracted by that.</para>
<para>Minister, speaking about hypotheticals, I haven't asked you if the US is going to rejoin. I haven't asked you if they are going to change their 22 suspended clauses. They would be hypothetical questions. I have actually asked you what the process is if they do. That is not a hypothetical question. It is an absolutely critical question. I have asked you about the status of these clauses as they are now. Perhaps I will phrase it a different way, Minister. Why are there 22 suspended clauses in this legislation that relate to the US? Why do we have suspended clauses? Why haven't they been removed?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, that's been asked and answered several times.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (cell at table item 2, column 2), omit the cell, substitute:</para></quote>
<para>I bring the chamber's attention to the Greens amendment on sheet 8529, and I'd like to ask some questions of the Minister in relation to that. But, Minister, first, I'd like an answer to the question put by Senator Whish-Wilson. I asked a very similar question yesterday and did not get a response. Why are those suspended clauses there at all? Why have they not been deleted? Did Australia argue for them to be deleted? If not, why not?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson-Young. I would again say: that question has been asked and answered several times in this chamber.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We're going to go on all day about this, Minister. We're not going to let you off the hook. Can you ask your staff to provide the answer that you provided yesterday to that question or at least give us some guidance on where we can find that answer? Senator Hanson-Young assures me you didn't provide an answer to that question yesterday.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I point you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. You were here in the chamber, and I point you to yesterday's <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It would assist the chamber if you could answer the question again, because we believe that you didn't answer the question. All we're asking for is a simple explanation as to why those clauses are even in the TPP.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, that has been asked and answered, on my count, at least five times. Again, if you do not recall the conversation from yesterday in this chamber, I point you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Did the US request that these clauses stay in the TPP?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, again, I point you to the copious amount of debate we've had on that in the last two days in discussion in the chamber. I'd again point you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> for answers to your questions.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I know it's not your fault that you've been put up to answer these questions without much background in the TPP and what's happened over the last decade or so, but I really think you should be more cooperative because people are watching you right now and it's clear you can't answer the question. You actually don't know the answer to that question, which is very embarrassing. Prove me wrong by actually answering the question; I'm very happy for you to do that. We have people looking at it right now and I'm very happy to keep talking until I get a copy of the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> and I can show you up for what you are. You have not answered that question.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I thank you very much for that condescending and very patronising question. However, it does not change the fact that that has been asked and answered in many ways. It is not relevant to these customs amendment bills, yet we have spent several hours now answering the same questions over and over and over again. I can assure you that I have not been left in the lurch. I am very confident and very happy to be moving these bills through the parliament. You can keep wasting the committee's time with these questions, as is your right, but, again, I know these questions have been asked and answered, and I refer you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to bring the committee's attention to the Greens amendment that I moved a few minutes ago. This amendment deals with these most important issues that are lacking in the TPP. As has been pointed out numerous times by me and my colleagues in second reading speeches and also through the committee stage today and yesterday, we are extremely concerned that ISDS provisions remain in the TPP. We also are worried, of course, about the failure to include proper protections for Australian workers through labour market testing.</para>
<para>So this amendment says that, until these issues are dealt with, the TPP would not be able to come into effect. It is the bare minimum that should be required by this chamber—the absolute bare minimum. We've just heard question after question after question that was put to the minister not being answered because of an even more concerning sign that there are 22 other clauses that are incredibly controversial, such as making cancer medication too expensive for cancer patients to access. That is the type of clause which has been simply left there on the side, ready to be activated at any point, and the minister is refusing to answer questions about why Australia allowed those clauses to stay in place. If the minister is going to continue to not answer those questions, we could at least get to fixing what should be the bare minimum for the TPP, and that is removing those ISDS provisions and putting in place some proper protections for Australian workers, which is what this Greens amendment on sheet 8529 does.</para>
<para>Interestingly, these two particular issues—ISDS provisions and the labour market testing—are two things which we know the opposition say they are worried about, yet they are prepared to simply tick this TPP legislation through the chamber today without fixing them. There is a hollow promise that somehow, if Mr Bill Shorten were able to become Prime Minister, this would be magically dealt with. We know that that's not true. We know that the government of the day is not able to simply amend the TPP. We've heard the minister say that already today, that changes would need to be renegotiated across all parties. Australia would have to withdraw from the TPP before anything could be fixed. That's the truth. We've had that confirmed previously by the minister for trade. Here we have the Labor Party trying to wind up debate in this place today, shut down debate, because they're embarrassed that their own position is an absolute furphy. Their own position on this legislation is an absolute furphy. Why? Because they've got some in their party who think this shouldn't be a problem, that ISDS provisions are not a problem and that labour market testing is obviously not a problem, and they've got plenty of people inside their own camp who know that it is.</para>
<para>This amendment put forward by the Greens would fix these things. We don't have to wait for Bill Shorten to become Prime Minister. We could fix it today. Of course, we're going to have Senator Carr jump up in a minute and be very angry at me for pointing this out. You watch. There will be bluster and fury. He's very good at thumping the desk when he is a bit grumpy about how things are going in this place. So I suspect that will happen, because the Labor Party have sold out Australian workers, because the Labor Party have rolled over to back in the TPP, to keep these insidious antidemocratic ISDS clauses in the TPP. They're lying to the Australian people by pretending that somehow it can be fixed if and when Bill Shorten becomes Prime Minister. It's a lie. It's a furphy. Not just the Australian union movement know it; but workers across the country know it too.</para>
<para>I look forward to hearing the justification from the Labor opposition as to why they won't vote for this Greens amendment when it is part of their own party's national platform. I would like to also ask the minister, in light of this amendment, how the government is going to manage the chilling effect on regulation, given the existence of ISDS clauses in the TPP.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've been called upon to respond, and I'm only too happy to respond. After all, it is only every second day that the Labor Party gets accused of being made up of liars! And Bill Shorten is accused by the Greens of seeking to mislead the Australian people. Of course, this is the party that has voted with the Liberal Party to undermine the entire environmental structures of this country. We could have had some decent environmental politics in this country; we could have had that—nearly 10 years now—if we had a party here that actually had some real principles and some real understanding of the way power is exercised in this country. But no: we're talking about the Australian Greens. We know just how irresponsible they are when it comes to jobs. We know just how extremely opportunistic they are when it comes to the welfare of the Australian working people, because that's the history of the Australian Greens. As we well know, the Australian Greens are centred on the most wealthy people in this country now. They've got the best social conscience that money can buy. What would you expect from people who live the life? They're only too happy to tell everyone else, with great moral authority, that they know more about how to live the good life than anyone else does.</para>
<para>When it comes to the question of the ISDS provisions, Labor does not support the inclusions. We've made that very clear. We have made it absolutely clear that this government has made a fundamental mistake in including these provisions in this agreement. We've made it very clear that this is a customs bill, that the treaty has been signed. And under the current procedures of this parliament, which we want to change—which we actually want to do something about, by getting a Labor government elected—we want to be able to transform the way in which treaties are undertaken in this country. But we have to acknowledge this fact: that under the current legal framework the treaty has been signed by the government, and what we have before us is a tariff bill that talks about the provisions with which we can change the tariff arrangements themselves.</para>
<para>We've also said that in the future we will prohibit—make legislative changes to stop—the inclusion of ISDS clauses in trade agreements. We will follow the example of the New Zealand Labour government and negotiate side letters to have these clauses removed and reinstate labour market testing should we be fortunate enough to get elected. And we make no assumptions about that. I've heard the Greens talk here as if the election's been already held and already resolved. We don't make any assumptions about those questions. What we do say is that we will be highly competitive at the next election, whenever that is, and we say it should be held very, very soon, because this country simply can't afford to have this government continue in office. But what we will not do is act in an irresponsible manner that is contrary to the national interest.</para>
<para>When the Liberals have made this terrible mistake with regard to this treaty arrangement, our manufacturers, our universities, our winemakers and our farmers shouldn't be made to pay for that mistake. Senator Hanson-Young's proposition would punish them for that mistake if we were to accept these propositions. We have a simple matter here, and I've made this point, but I guess there are some folks for whom you need to repeat things, because it takes a little while for it to sink in. In South Australia there are iron and steel workers at Whyalla who understand the importance of not being undermined by their political representatives. Their position in relation to Canada would be undermined by the proposition that you have put forward. There are, of course, workers in the wool industry. There are meatworkers across South Australia. There are people who work in the pork industry who, of course, would be faced with the advantage that would be given to Mexico under your arrangements, which would give Mexico a 20 per cent advantage in pork. There are people in the cotton industry, not to mention the South Australian wine industry, who would be seriously disadvantaged. I could go on. There's the seafood industry, which is particularly important in South Australia; horticulture; and, of course, cereals and grains. In all of these, advantages would be provided to the Canadians if we were to accept these amendments.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You don't want the Canadians to get an advantage? You'd prefer the New Zealanders? You think this is a responsible course of action to take. You would provide the New Zealand cheesemakers with an advantage over Australian cheesemakers in this transitionary period. Do you want to put the Canadian and New Zealand beef farmers ahead of Australian beef farmers or workers, the people in those industries who are seeking to get access to the Japanese markets? Abattoirs are seeking to get access to the Japanese markets under these arrangements.</para>
<para>What the Labor Party says is pretty simple. This is a very flawed agreement. We acknowledge that. We are in the business of getting that fixed, but we won't do it at the expense of farmers, winemakers, cheesemakers, blue-collar workers, manufacturers or our universities. We want to see those people enter international markets on the same basis as their competitors in New Zealand and Canada. I would have thought that would be a pretty straightforward proposition.</para>
<para>So, when it comes to the question of why the Labor Party won't accept these irresponsible stunts that you're putting forward, I think it's very clear. There is no way the Labor Party is going to join with you in these stunts to undermine the living conditions of Australian workers in the manner which we've become all too accustomed to from the Greens. You think this will go unnoticed? You're making a bit of a mistake.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think Senator Carr has put the case very clearly. In relation to Senator Hanson-Young's question on the ISDS, those exact questions have been asked and answered several times.</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, they have. Again I will refer you to <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. We've now had nearly eight hours of debate and questions on this issue, these customs amendments.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, I think that, if you go back through <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>, you will find that the words 'chilling effect', along with all the other Greens buzzword bingo words, came out yesterday. Again I will just refer you to <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> yesterday. There is no chilling effect, because Australian sovereignty still remains, and the Australian government's ability to legislate and to deal with these issues remains completely unaffected.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to get back to the question that I had for the minister that she still hasn't answered yet, but before I do I just want to say to Senator Carr: I know that you did stand up for workers in the automotive industry going back over a decade ago, when the tsunami of free trade was heading for this country, and I know that you personally have been involved with seeing thousands of workers and their families losing their jobs and their communities on the back of the free trade deals that this country has signed in the last 10 years. I know you're aware that there might be benefits to trade, but there are also costs. You're aware of that personally. What we're trying to do here today is minimise those costs.</para>
<para>The amendment that Senator Hanson-Young has put up does that up-front, but we know that if anything gets amended then the deal's off, which is really the irony of this whole situation. We're doing our job in here as senators, yet, because this deal is signed and sealed by the executive and by the government, often for political purposes, through a treaty process that's a couple of hundred years old and desperately needs to be upgraded, we can't actually amend this deal or make it better, because we would lose the whole thing.</para>
<para>Minister, it's extremely important that you answer my question from earlier, and I'll put it to you again. You haven't actually answered this bit. I'm asking about the process. It's not a hypothetical question. There are suspended clauses. I can't find any examples of where suspended clauses have appeared in any other trade deals, like they have in the TPP. If the US rejoins and the clauses are not changed, so they stay as they are, will there be a legislative process where it comes back to parliament for our ratification, or are we voting on the contingency of those clauses being immediately reactivated if the US rejoins? It's a critical question. Fine, legislation is required to change the customs duties and tariffs—we're all aware of that. But, as they are, these are in there as suspended clauses. If they're not changed and the US is happy with them, will there be any kind of legislative process where a sovereign parliament, in a country like Australia, will get to ratify those clauses becoming part of the TPP, or are they de facto already part of the TPP? It is the most important question I can ask you here today. Unfortunately, I don't have more time; I could do this for days, but I really want to know the answer to this question.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Whish-Wilson, for that same question. I've lost count now, but I think it's probably up to about eight times.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Try answering it!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it won't be the same answer I've now given seven, eight, nine times. Again, I cannot make it any simpler than I already have, but, hopefully for the last time, this will be very clear. We have the 22 clauses that have been suspended. If—if!—the United States rejoins and if all 11 parties agree to what's already been agreed to in those clauses, it will come back to JSCOT, but then it would require, as I've had reconfirmed, custom amendment changes. And, as I've said previously, if that were the case, it would come back to parliament, as it has now. You can keep asking me the same question, Senator Whish-Wilson, but the answer will be the same. And, if you ask the same question again, I will refer you to <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline><inline font-style="italic">,</inline> because this has now been asked and answered several times.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I predicted fire and fury from Senator Carr, and we got that, so obviously the Labor Party are still very tetchy about their position in relation to rolling over with the Morrison government on the TPP. I find it extraordinary that something that is Labor Party policy is now being decried in this place as irresponsible. This is the Labor Party's own policy, but they're selling out their members, they're selling out the unions and they're selling out Australian workers. We know that, because they think it's so bad that if they were to come into government they'd try to fix it. The problem is they can't. Once the TPP is in, it is in. We've already had confirmation from the minister that, in order to fix any of this down the track, Australia would have to withdraw and renegotiate. And that is simply the truth of the matter. It doesn't matter how many times or how angry or how embarrassed the Labor Party are, that's the fact. They can make as many promises as possible to fix things, but they are hollow and they are lies. With that, I ask that the question be put on my amendment so that we can get on to debating the next sections.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just before we do that, I need to correct an assertion you made there, Senator Hanson-Young. We do not have to withdraw. That was never suggested by ministers.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hanson-Young interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson-Young, we do not have to withdraw. Neither I nor Simon Birmingham, as the minister, has said that is the case.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On that point, Minister, assuming the Labor government gets elected and they want to change aspects of the deal—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Hanson-Young</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Remove the ISDS provisions.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes. Getting 10 other countries to agree to removing things, including labour testing for employment and ISDS, would be incredibly difficult when they actually want it in the deal now. Minister, can you confirm that if Australia insisted on the removal of ISDS from the TPP, and insisted on labour market testing for foreign workers, it would voluntarily have to withdraw from the TPP if it refused that or changed legislation in Australia that made that impossible?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have traversed this ground extensively and, again, it is purely a hypothetical question for a future government.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, in his speech, noted the side letters that New Zealand negotiated. It is my understanding that they were negotiated prior to the signing of the TPP. Is that correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This issue was asked and answered yesterday more than once. Again, I would refer you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> from yesterday.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, if there is a challenge by a multinational company under ISDS, where is that actually fought, in what jurisdiction?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My advice is that, in the event of a dispute, a special arbitration would be established with the agreement of both parties.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>A report that has been put out by the Parliamentary Library says it has been raised that these provisions mean that, when Australian governments make new laws or policy in the interests of Australian people, foreign investors can sue our government in international tribunals if they consider that those laws harm their investments or disadvantage them in some way. So you are saying it goes to a tribunal, that it does not go to an Australian law court whatsoever. Can you tell me and the Australian people whether that tribunal will amount to only three people making the decisions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, it is an arbitration panel, a panel that is agreed to by Australians—it would be in that case, if we were a party, and yes, it would be a panel of three.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can it go before an international tribunal?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The process itself is actually in the treaty text and Australia would have to agree to that process and that arbitration panel. It is not actually a tribunal; it is an arbitration panel and it would comprise three members.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you don't mind, Senator Hanson, I have a supplementary question to that. Minister, can you confirm that, for a panel member, there is not the requirement of being a judicial officer or former judicial officer and whether or not it can simply be a lawyer?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That is a level of detail that we don't have on hand at the moment, so I will have to take that on notice.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is my understanding that it can simply be a lawyer, but I will wait for your answer. Obviously, this panel has the ability to award significant damages against a sovereign state in the event that a corporation is successful. Are there any bounds on the compensation amount that might be awarded against a sovereign state, understanding that some claims have amounted to billions of dollars?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator, I'm seeking further advice on that, but it depends on what's in the treaty itself. We'll get some more information on that. One thing I would like to point out and remind the chamber of in relation to the ISDS—something that we've discussed in great depth here over the last couple of days—is that this is reciprocal. Senator Hanson, this might allay some of your concerns. This is equally important for Australian businesses engaging overseas. For example, Australian mining companies want ISDS provisions in any future Indonesian free trade agreement because they provide certainty for those businesses themselves. Again, I think it's important to remember that this is not just an issue for others; it is an issue for us. In fact, in the negotiations on the Indonesia-Australia free trade agreement, the Indonesian government said that they want to have the ISDS to provide foreign investors, including Australian investors, with greater certainty in terms of doing business in Indonesia.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's my understanding—and I'm not an expert on this—that concerns over the constitution of these panels have been raised. My understanding is that there are moves afoot internationally to wrap some greater controls around these panels. I'm wondering if you could provide some details on what is happening there and, indeed, whether Australia is a party to the discussions in respect of that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, thank you for these questions on the panel itself. You've clearly got a lot of background knowledge on these panels, so, if you would like to, it might assist the efficient business of the Senate—rather than drip-feeding questions that we need to seek further information on—to provide us with all of the questions up-front. We can take them on notice and seek further information from you to fill in the obviously already extensive knowledge base that you have in this area.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The final question I might have on ISDS is a question I raised with Senator Birmingham, and he was working towards an answer. In the event that a corporation here in Australia feels that they have been, in some way, disadvantaged because of a change of public policy or a change of law—I just want to make it very clear—I understand that they have the right to go to our courts to seek a remedy. This question does not relate to companies' rights to go to a court. It's clear under the ISDS provisions that a multinational corporation here in Australia can invoke ISDS provisions. My question is specifically related to an Australian company that feels that they need to be compensated in some way. Can an Australian company invoke an ISDS application in respect of a change of public policy, equal to what an international company can do?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer is no. Australian companies can't invoke that; it's foreign companies.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That leaves the situation where we create in some sense a discrimination against an Australian company that feels aggrieved in respect of a change that has occurred. In the discussions that have led the government to this point, has it thought of any remedy to a situation whereby we give an international company that is operating in Australia a right that we don't give to an Australian company?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This treaty was signed in March. Currently before this chamber are two customs and customs tariff amendment bills. While I appreciate your desire to go off into some discursive discussion about the treaty itself, I would suggest that these questions might be more suited to estimates next week, where you will have the minister at the table and also the department to talk more about and unpack the process itself and any policy underpinnings of that. You can keep asking these questions in this place, as is your right, but they are not relevant to the legislation at this point. If you would like to have some discursive policy debate and discussion, we can continue to do so, but it is not relevant to the bill at hand, and many of those issues have been dealt with in now over eight hours of debate and discussion on these two customs bills.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to ask a couple more questions with regard to what you've stated is a panel of three. I want to know their background. You should know the make-up of who is going to be on that panel. I want to know if there is an international interest on it or whether there are just Australians making decisions for a multinational company that may be suing the Australian taxpayer, who will have to pay out the end result. Who is on the panel, and is there an international interest on that panel?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much for that question. As I have said, again, in answer to your and Senator Patrick's questions, these are ad hoc panels that are established under the terms of the treaty itself. It is a complete hypothetical, because these panels don't exist and would be established under the terms of the treaty. There is no panel yet. Again, as I've said to Senator Patrick, we will take it on notice and provide some more information on the wording of the treaty itself, but at the moment it is a complete hypothetical, because one hasn't been established.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm sorry, that's not good enough. You have made an international treaty with 10 other countries, the TPP. If this government has not made a decision on who is going to be on that panel then it is pathetic and this whole treaty needs to be questioned fully. You are saying it's hypothetical. You have put it in there. That's what I heard yesterday: 'It's hypothetical. This may never happen. We've had these agreements for the last 20 or 30 years, we've been challenged only once and that was not successful.' If that is the case then why have we signed up to it, when the New Zealand Prime Minister has written a side letter to say that they are not going to be bound by the ISDS, yet Australia is adamant on having this in? If it's not that important then write a side letter and don't allow any multinational company to sue us in the case that they may be able to.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would point you and perhaps your staff to chapter 9 of the TPP document, which we can provide or is available on the internet. It explains the processes in detail. I think one of the misunderstandings implicit in your question is that this is not a standing panel or body, so it does not exist. It is a process that can be invoked, should it be needed and Australia and whatever other party were in agreement that this panel would be set up. At that point then they would go through a process of agreeing to and appointing panel members, but the panel does not yet exist; it is just a theoretical process. Again, if you like, we can provide you with chapter 9, the investment chapter. The process for this is clearly laid out in that chapter. That goes to the heart of Senator Patrick's questions as well. Senator Patrick, you're clearly, by the tone of your questions, very well aware of that chapter and the provisions within it. So, again, we can provide it to both of you, but it is publicly available information on how that process would be invoked if it were ever necessary. That's why it is a hypothetical, Senator Hanson—because it is just something to be invoked should both parties agree in future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just on the hypothetical, obviously there are rules around who can sit on a panel. Maybe I as a nonlawyer would not meet whatever the particular requirements are. In some sense, we're interested in the rules. My concern is we have a situation where, if it is in fact just a lawyer that makes the decision, we will have lawyers making decisions that could bind Australia to payments of billions of dollars. That's the concern that I'm raising.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, I think you said it in your first sentence: you are asking a hypothetical question for a discussion that, I think, is best suited to having outside of this chamber at this time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can I ask about the workers that will be able to come in under this agreement. What are the provisions for companies to bring their workers into Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, again, when you were in the chamber yesterday these questions were asked and answered in great detail. That does come under the labour market testing provisions of the treaty, which again we can provide to you. Experience is very important. These labour market testing provisions are not new. They are already in a number of other treaties. I understand community concerns. This is certainly an issue that the unions are very vocal about. But, when you have a look at the facts, for the Japan, China and South Korea free trade agreements, which are subject to LMT provisions, the evidence is that 457 visa numbers for those three countries actually dropped by 10 per cent after the introduction of those LMT provisions. So these are not new. The processes are the same, and, despite fears that this will lead to Australian workforces and workers being overrun, the evidence is simply not there.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you may say that there is no fear, and of course your 457 visa numbers have actually dropped. Yes, I agree with you that they have. But the thing is, if you say it's not a problem, why put it into the treaty? If it goes on labour market testing and if we need the workers, then why was it necessary to put in the treaty, as with the Indonesian treaty and the China free trade agreement as well, that they could actually bring in 5,000 workers over a period of time? If it is based on labour market testing, why put any numbers in it at all?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, as I answered in response to questions from Senator Hanson-Young and Senator Whish-Wilson—and I believe you were in the chamber for some of that yesterday—because this is a treaty, these are reciprocal arrangements, so they apply equally to Australians working in companies engaged in arrangements with some of our treaty partners. This is not just an issue about workers coming into Australia. It is also important because we cannot request that or expect that of our own workers, for our own companies, if we don't have some reciprocal arrangements.</para>
<para>I do have some further detail for you, Senator Hanson, in relation to your question about what the commitments are. Australia's temporary entry commitments are limited to businesspeople from parties to the TPP-11, and they provide similar access to Australian businesspersons in equivalent categories. So Australia has committed to providing access for TPP-11 businesspersons to stay and work in Australia, but, again, they are quite defined categories. For contractual service suppliers it's one year, with a possibility of extension. For investors and independent executives it's up to two years. For intracorporate transferees, which is a fancy way of saying executives and senior managers, it's an initial four years, with a possibility of extension. For specialists it's a two-year stay, with the possibility of extension; and for installers and servicers it's up to three months. Spouses and dependants are granted entry to accompany executives and contractual service suppliers. So it is very specific, it is very limited and it is focused on business and executives and their spouses. It's not a free-for-all. It is very specific. And, as you can see, there are different time frames for different categories of business visas and engagements.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much for that answer. I have with me the customs tariff amendment comprehensive TPP bill 2018. I'm reading through this and I'm trying to find answers to this. The whole customs tariff book is based on the customs tariff, because it is customs tariffs. But all it says is—I'll pick one out, item No. 80: 2710.19.53, and it's got $0.412/L. It doesn't say anything about what it actually is. And then you've got here in tariffs, from 1 January—all free. It doesn't state what's free. It doesn't tell me anything, looking at this book—what is free. So, we've got pages and pages of items coming into Australia, no tariffs—it's free. Where do I get the answer to this? What impact are these imports going to have on Australian producers, farmers and manufacturing industries in this nation? How much more industry and manufacturing are we going to destroy in this country by getting rid of tariffs—the one thing that actually helped our businesses here to compete with countries that are paying only a few dollars a day to their workers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson. As you can see from my glasses, my eyesight is not that great, so can you just clarify for me what document you're reading from? I'm presuming it might be the Customs Tariff Act 1995?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It says '2016-2017-2018, The Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia, House of Representatives, presented and read a first time, Customs Tariff Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018, No. , 2018'.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's the bill itself. There are two bills before the chamber. There's one amending the Customs Act and the Customs Tariff Act. I think, from the questions, that you're actually asking about the changes being made to the Customs Tariff Act. Would that be correct?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is the book that was put out by the government. I presume it's about the tariffs—'Trans-Pacific Partnership originating goods'. It doesn't give you much information. That's what I'm saying. There's hardly any information here at all. It tells me nothing. So I can't relate back to my constituents and people of Australia what we have actually signed away. You can sit there and tell me that we don't have to worry about the ISDS, because we're going to send services to other countries; we're going to have Australian involvement in other countries. But you haven't really told me or the Australian people what's in exchange. What are these other countries going to be able to get out of Australia, or what imports are they going to be able to send to Australia? What impact is that going to have on our country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much for that clarification, because I now understand what document you've got before you. I've got some specific information, because now I understand that you're talking about the amendments to the Customs Tariff Act. But what I would say is that there's a number of documents that can help you and your staff in relation to this. The first one is the explanatory memorandum, which does actually provide the detail, because the bill is—as you say, it is a very technical amendment to the act itself. The explanatory memorandum does have that information.</para>
<para>But I think I can short-circuit some of that more detailed information for you. The customs tariff amendment bill will make the following three major changes: first, it provides preferential rates of customs duty for all goods, excluding excise equivalent goods, that are determined to be originating within the new part of the act; second, it inserts new schedules to provide for excise equivalent rates of customs duty on certain alcohol, tobacco and fuel products and for phasing rates of customs duty in accordance with our treaty obligations; and, third, it amends certain concessional items in schedule 4 of the Customs Tariff Act to maintain customs duty rates in line with applicable concessional items. I would refer you to the explanatory memorandum, because that is the technical explanation of the technical bill that you're having a look at. What you're looking at is quite technical, because it is actually the wording to amend the act, whereas the explanatory memorandum explains it. I would also refer you to the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee report on these bills, which goes into some detail about what the customs amendment and customs tariff amendment bills are all about.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendment moved by Senator Hanson-Young on sheet 8529 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:30]<br />(Temporary Chair—Senator Whish-Wilson)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>14</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON-YOUNG</name>
    <name.id>I0U</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In respect of the Customs Amendment (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership Implementation) Bill 2018, I move Greens amendment (1) on sheet 8530:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (cell at table item 2, column 2), omit the cell, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[commencement]</inline></para></quote>
<para>Given the failure, sadly, of the amendment just now because the Labor Party refused to be an opposition and voted with the government to tick through the TPP—despite the fact that that amendment was simply instating the Labor Party's own policies; take that as you will—this amendment ensures that any need for funds to fight an ISDS clause would have to come before the parliament. It also ensures that there is proper transparency around how taxpayer funds are being spent in defending our sovereignty and our laws and regulations against multinationals. Given we now have a TPP agreement with locked-in ISDS provisions, it is absolutely essential that the Australian people know what this is costing us and what the impact is, and that transparency prevails. This is about ensuring that the government can't paper over what they've just agreed to; that the Labor Party, either in opposition or in government, can't pretend that this isn't having a chilling effect; and that taxpayer money being spent on it is accounted for, and sunlight is shone in places where, we know, both sides of this place would prefer it not to be.</para>
<para>While I've been on my feet speaking, it has been just fascinating to see the minister in negotiations with the Labor Party. It just proves what a cuddly, convenient relationship we have now between the two parties in this place, with the Labor Party and the coalition selling out Australian democracy: selling out the rights of the Australian people to have laws and regulations that protect their health, protect the environment and look after their best interests. Meanwhile, Labor and the coalition are passing legislation that puts the interests of big multinational companies first. That's what they're more interested in doing. How can they shut down debate today? How can they make sure that power remains with the big corporates rather than with the Australian people?</para>
<para>I urge all in this place to support this amendment now that the Labor Party have rolled over with the government to lock in these provisions which would allow multinational companies to sue the Australian people over regulations and laws that perhaps the public want because they know they are in their best interests. At the very least, the government of the day needs to be transparent about how much this is going to cost and what is on foot. It's a transparency measure. There should be nothing to be afraid of. But, of course, the proof will be in the pudding. We'll see the Labor Party and the coalition vote it down because they don't want the public to know just how bad this TPP deal really is.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to reflect on the comments that were made previously by Senator Hanson, who raised a very good point. In these trade debates, if you like to call them debates—in the spin around promoting free trade deals, which has happened since Mr Tony Abbot was elected in 2013 and we've seen an avalanche of bilateral trade deals; bilateral trade deals being trade deals between two countries—it is fascinating how the government will line up. They come in here at question time and quote their numbers—and Senator Carr has just done it in his statement to the chamber—about all the benefits that our exporters are going to receive when foreign countries allow increased access to their markets. But never in the debate do we talk about the costs of free trade deals. There are costs. Every economist acknowledges it. Those costs need to be weighed up in the debate, in the matter of public interest, against the benefits. That's how we assess whether a trade deal, or a trade investment deal like the TPP, is in our national interest.</para>
<para>It's fundamentally dishonest that we never talk about the impacts of these deals on our local producers, on our local manufacturers and on our local farmers. I can tell you that campaigns such as 'buy Australian', 'buy Australian beef' and 'buy Australian seafood' have triggered state-to-state dispute settlements in previous trade deals like NAFTA, where US beef and Canadian beef—pardon the pun—had a major beef over a 'buy local' campaign. These trade deals make it extremely difficult for us to support local businesses or for governments to subsidise or provide assistance to local businesses and local industries. That's why we saw the loss of tens of thousands of Australian car workers. It has mainly been a slow decline, but it has been very rapid in the last five years as this Liberal government has signed an avalanche of free trade deals—mostly to get a headline and a press opportunity. I haven't seen any evidence that these deals have benefited our local exporters, but I can tell you that I hear all the time about how difficult it is for local farmers, producers and manufacturers to compete with cheap foreign products. That is what Senator Hanson asked. What access are we giving away and selling down the river? Who are we selling down the river?</para>
<para>You may remember that the Korean free trade deal was called by the media, very cynically, 'the cars for cows deal'. In other words, we sold out our car industry to get increased access for our beef farmers. Let's just look at that example. If that's true, and I believe it was the case, who makes that decision? Who is the high, almighty arbiter of the fact that we are going to kill the car industry, its intellectual property and the decades of communities and workers who have grown up in those communities, as well as the ability to make our own cars and all the other ramifications that go with that? Who makes the decision that we sell out an entire industry and that we will trade that off against increased access for our beef farmers?</para>
<para>When you deal with bilateral deals, any economist will tell you that any simple input-output model, or any other economic model, can't accurately predict the benefits of those deals. That's because you end up stealing trade off other countries who you don't have bilateral deals with. I'm not going to give everyone in here a lecture on economics, but that's why, in theory, multilateral deals—like the deals we saw through the WTO, which fell apart after the Doha rounds—are the only kinds of deals that do bring net economic benefits. These bilateral deals and these multilateral deals don't. It is a really important point when we're about to vote very soon on this massive sellout of Australian interests—and for what? We need to consider the costs. They need to be properly quantified. No-one wants to talk about it in the public debate. It's absolutely our role here in the Senate to bring balance to this debate and to raise these issues with you, Assistant Minister.</para>
<para>I had a couple of quick questions for you in relation to the environmental chapter. It was welcome when the environment chapter in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement was negotiated. The environment chapter is chapter 20. There's a section in there that relates to the protection of cetaceans. I just wanted to ask you, given the importance of protecting cetaceans under Australian law, what ability we will have in the use of the TPP—presuming it's going to be ratified by this parliament very soon—and how that chapter will enable us to stop Japanese whaling in the Southern Ocean, considering Japan has been the leader of this TPP-11 that we have before us here today. When the US pulled out, it was the Japanese Prime Minister, Prime Minister Abe, who reignited and reinvigorated the push for the TPP-11.</para>
<para>We saw, just a week or two ago, that the Japanese government was threatening to pull out of the International Whaling Commission, a rules based order around whaling that Australia showed leadership in over 35 years ago by banning commercial whaling. How will we be able to use this environment chapter in the TPP to hold the Japanese government to account if they go down to our Southern Ocean and start slaughtering whales on an industrial, commercial scale? That is what their stated intention is. I'd like to know how we can actually use this chapter to stop that from happening.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I think I've just discovered why some of these questions are coming from my Greens colleagues. You said that this will be ratified shortly. This is actually a treaty that was ratified back in March of this year, and these are two customs enabling bills. You just said it hasn't been ratified yet. Well, it has been ratified. That might perhaps explain the misdirected nature of some of these questions. Again, as you acknowledged, this is in chapter 20 of the treaty. You obviously have a copy of the treaty and of that chapter. These questions have absolutely no direct relevance to these two customs bills at all. So perhaps, Chair, I might ask, in that case, if I could just get your opinion of whether these questions are in order, because they relate to a treaty that was ratified in March of this year. We have now spent nearly 10 hours on debate in this chamber on the same questions over and over again—on questions which actually relate to a treaty that has been ratified and which are not relevant to the bills here today. Chair, if I could ask for your guidance.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: It is a broad-ranging debate. The senator was asking for your view on the impact of that treaty on a free trade agreement, and I believe that you've answered that question.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would say they're trying to distract away from that question. This is chapter 20. I won't say you deliberately misled the chamber then, Minister, but what we're doing today is ratifying this in parliament. You've signed this deal. Your executive has ratified it, but parliament hasn't ratified it yet. That's exactly why we're here today. That's what I would say a vote on the legislation is. But it's an attempt to actually distract away from the critical issue about which I asked you, which, by the way, is a question that hasn't been answered. And I'm sure you'd expect me, as a Greens senator, to be asking this question.</para>
<para>This environmental chapter was put in the TPP to try to bring civil society on board with the TPP. I've been following it long enough to know that's the case. It was designed to bring in environment groups, as were the other chapters in there around slave labour and wildlife trade. There's a whole array of stuff in here. As I mentioned earlier, it covers just about every aspect of life in every country that's signing up to this, and it is part of what we are ratifying as a parliament. You are giving effect to the customs and tariff side of this. That's what actually makes this treaty come into effect. But it is all the same. So this is absolutely critical, and I ask you again: is there a binding clause in here? Is it the purpose of this environmental chapter that Australia can take action against the Japanese government if they go down into the Southern Ocean this summer or next summer and resume commercial whaling, which has been banned for over 35 years? Will this actually allow us, as a country, within our relationship in the TPP-11, to take action against the Japanese government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, we are again well and truly foraying into the world of the hypothetical.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>What's it in there for then?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, if you're going to ask me a question, please allow me to answer the question. Again, I'll provide the same answers that I've provided over probably seven hours of questioning on the same issues. This is a treaty that has been signed. We are now dealing, before this chamber, with the customs bills to fully enable our agreements. In relation to the issues in chapter 20 that you're talking about—the environmental considerations—the parliament has had ample opportunity to debate this. Over the course of the last two years, the provisions of the TPP have been debated, and I've gone through the various inquiries in this chamber already. I think there have been at least five parliamentary inquiries. There have been over a thousand consultations with 485 separate organisations, which is incredibly comprehensive. It is the most comprehensive engagement and parliamentary debate on any treaty that Australia has ever been party to.</para>
<para>We've already dealt with a range of these issues over and over again in over seven hours of debate in this place. You and I both know that the questions you just asked are far more appropriate for next week's Senate estimates process. But, again, go back and have a look at your own remarks in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>, Senator Whish-Wilson. You have already acknowledged that you have raised these issues in multiple estimates committees over multiple years, so it's not like you and the Greens have not had ample opportunity to get engaged and involved and to debate these issues. You have. We can sit here for the next several hours—I think it's taken 10 hours of the Senate's time already—and it's your right to keep us talking about the same things over and over again, but, ultimately, you are reprosecuting a treaty that was signed in March. These are customs amendment and customs tariff amendment bills. There is nothing that I have not repeated over and over again. If you keep asking the same questions, I will keep giving you the same answers, because the answers do not change, even if you do not like them.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If you don't like what's in the 29-plus chapters of the TPP, your opportunity to stop it is to vote against it in this chamber. We can vote against this enabling legislation, which would mean the whole thing falls apart. Minister, why would I want to prosecute the case in estimates next week, when the deal would have already been voted on and passed into law? Now is the opportunity for these issues to be raised. By the way, I actually haven't read the final text, because it has changed so many times. I was involved in this for the previous TPP. Senator Hanson-Young has done a fantastic job as our trade spokesperson since then. I am asking you now. I have looked at this and I'm looking at the detail right in front of me. I would like you and your advisers to tell me how this chapter will help us hold the Japanese government to account if they begin illegal commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean. Considering there is a section on mammal and cetacean protection, do we have binding agreements in here? What action can we take? Is it a state-to-state process? What is the process that we can use? Or is this environmental chapter, essentially, just platitudes? Is there nothing in here that we can actually use to bind another country's actions around the protection of mammals like whales, which, as you know, are very important to the Australian people?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I think you've just said it: you haven't actually read it. I think it would have been helpful to engage in this level of debate having actually read the document first. That said, I find it inconceivable that you don't understand that these are two separate processes. The treaty process is one arrangement, and there is nothing in that that precludes Australia from continuing its activities on the international stage in discussion with Japan. They are two separate processes. I'm sure you well know that.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I said I had read it. I said I wasn't involved in all the estimates questions that you referred to earlier. I must say you're doing a very good job on avoiding answering the question, with your little, granular details on this or that. I asked you: what can we use in this chapter of the TPP? We're about to enter into an agreement with Japan, along with 10 other countries in our region, that covers a whole range of impacts. What in here will allow us to hold the Japanese government to account? If you don't believe that's the case, then just say so. Please answer the question.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did answer the question. You didn't like the answer. I'm finding it difficult to put it any more simply for you, Senator Whish-Wilson. The fact is that they are two separate processes.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Whish-Wilson interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, please don't feign ignorance. You know the difference. You are probably more familiar with the international whaling activities we take and the processes than just about anybody else in this chamber. They are not linked. They are two separate processes.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Of course the International Whaling Commission is a separate process. The TPP has a chapter so that 11 countries can cooperate on protecting mammals and cetaceans. That's my question: what in this chapter will allow the Australian government—hopefully—to put pressure on the Japanese government to stop killing whales? Why even have a chapter that includes the protection of whales in a multilateral agreement if it's not going to actually work? A corporation or a government can sue another government for a breach of rules and regulations around economic factors when it affects their profits. Why even have a chapter in the TPP if we can't have binding agreements that have consequences on matters in relation to things like wildlife trade and the protection of cetaceans?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I'm now convinced you are trying to have a lend of me in this extended filibuster, because this has been asked and answered. They are two separate processes. There is nothing in that that precludes us from doing what we are doing already or from taking any actions the Australian government wants to take in those fora. You can keep asking me the same question, but the answer will be the same. They are two separate processes and two completely separate issues, and there is nothing to preclude Australia from taking the action that we are already engaged in.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I will take your answer, and put it in the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline><inline font-style="italic">, </inline>that there's nothing in the TPP that will be useful for us to hold the Japanese government to account on the protection of whales. Let every Australian understand and know that—that this whole chapter is a furphy. Now I'm calling it out, as we're about to vote on it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, I will direct you to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. I don't want to delay this chamber any further, but you have completely misrepresented what I said, and I would draw you, and anybody else interested in this, back to the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. That is not what I said.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I put on the record that I am very concerned about the signing and ratifying of the TPP-11. The United States and President Trump saw no reason to be involved in this and they've pulled out, so there are grave concerns. I will make comments on why I'm concerned about it. There was a free trade agreement with America signed by the Liberal Party in 2004 and ratified with support from the Labor Party. It came into effect in January 2005. Under that free trade agreement, from day one, Australia got rid of all its tariffs. America negotiated for its industries such as beef, horticulture and other areas to keep their tariffs on Australian exports into that country for between 11 and 18 years. That was for beef, horticulture, wine, steel, cotton and sheep. That was not a good deal for Australia. So it really concerns me when free trade agreements are signed off without being debated in this chamber and without the people of Australia being allowed to have a say in any of these treaties and agreements.</para>
<para>I can understand why you are saying it's a good thing—because we will be able to export our products to other countries around the world—and I'm sure a lot of people are very happy about that, especially in industry and the farming sector. My concern here is that in Australia we have a problem with multinationals paying their taxes. There are over 700 multinational companies in Australia that pay no tax at all. I hear the same old rhetoric from the government: 'We are addressing that and we are reining it in.' Under this free trade agreement, you are opening up the gates for multinational companies to come here, and they will be able to bring in their workers. My question to you is: if we are going to open it up to more multinational companies to come into Australia and work here, what is the government doing to ensure that they will pay their taxes here in Australia and not add to the over 700 companies already that pay no taxes in Australia, which costs the Australian taxpayer?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Hanson, for that question. I think most of that was a comment rather than a question, but, in relation to paying tax, I think that is a perfect question for Senator Cormann in question time, because any companies operating here would be subject to exactly the same laws and enforcement on taxation and all other regulations. The issue you raise is one of enforcement under Australian law and is not directly relevant to this bill here today, but it is a good question, and I would encourage you to take that up with Minister Cormann.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to talk a little bit about ratification, because I heard the exchange between Senator Whish-Wilson and the minister. I just want to repeat a point that Mr Mina of DFAT, who is an expert in this field, made in his public testimony:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The second point is simply to note that three countries—Japan, Singapore and Mexico—have all ratified. Three more need to ratify for the agreement to enter into force. Developments are gathering apace in five other countries—</para></quote>
<para>and he mentions them. He continued:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is very possible that, if Australia isn't an early mover on ratification, we will not make one of the first six … We do, therefore, commend early ratification to the committee, and we're looking forward to answering any further questions you may have today.</para></quote>
<para>There seems to be some confusion. I put it to you that Mr Mina is an expert in this field. He is very well respected. But this treaty, I presume, hasn't been ratified on the basis of the testimony of Mr Mina.</para>
<para>Moving on next to the point about relevance to the bill, again, this bill is enabling legislation for a treaty and it's very normal in committee stage to deal with consequences of bills, including consequences that are not directly related to the bill. Pretty much everything is in order when we're talking about the TPP.</para>
<para>In the government's consideration of the agreement, once again, after many years I'm sure that the government has done its due diligence on this. It is clear, in respect of labour market testing, that there are about 450 professions that could be covered by the term 'contractual service supplier'. And I note that, for those contractual service suppliers, we don't have to have labour market testing. They can simply come to Australia under the agreement and take the role of an Australian worker without testing. What analysis did the government do in terms of the numbers of likely foreign workers that would come to this country without that testing?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you very much, Senator Patrick, for your several questions wrapped up into the one. The first one I'd like to address is that article that you were talking about. Again, I think there is a bit of danger in reading bits and pieces, so what I'd like to do, perhaps, is go through with you the risks of not ratifying quickly and wrap up some of those issues. In that context, analysis reveals Australian industries would be at immediate disadvantage if we fail to ratify the TPP-11.</para>
<para>In terms of the process, it will enter into force 60 days after six countries have ratified the agreement. Japan, Singapore and Mexico, as I've said previously in this place, have all ratified. New Zealand and Canada are close to ratifying. They have almost finished their own domestic processes. After ratification, New Zealand and Canada would receive an 11 per cent tariff cut for their fresh beef exports to Japan next year, giving them a tariff rate of 2.2 per cent, which is lower than our current preferential treatment under our free trade agreement with Japan. This is significant given the value of all our beef exports to Japan is over $2 billion a year. That would be giving New Zealand and Canada a significant preferential advantage over our own beef producers right here in Australia.</para>
<para>Senator Carr has already identified this as well in the chamber, but I'm very happy to keep going through this with you. It is not only the beef industry. The New Zealand wine industry would gain an edge over our own domestic industry. The Canadian wine industry, which is growing, would also have significant advantages with the elimination of Canada's tariff, which on wine is currently 4.68c a litre, upon entering into force of the TPP. Again, that's a significant disadvantage to us potentially, because our wine exports to Canada were valued at nearly $200 million last financial year.</para>
<para>We've got beef, we've got wine and we've also got dairy. Under the Japanese free trade agreement the tariff rates on our cheddar cheese exports into Japan currently sit at nearly 30 per cent. On ratification of the TPP-11 New Zealand and Canada would have their tariff rates immediately cut to 27.9 per cent, obviously less than ours. Again, that gives them a competitive advantage over our dairy producers, because Australia's tariff rate would continue to remain at nearly 30 per cent.</para>
<para>We've got beef, we've got wine and we've got dairy. Also, Australian exports of iron and steel to Vietnam are currently worth $146 million a year. If Australia is not amongst the first six countries in the TPP-11 and Vietnam is, then Australian iron ore and steel exporters will be at a significant disadvantage to their Japanese steelmaking competitors—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It sounds hypothetical to me.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that interjection. This is not hypothetical, this is a reality. That is what will happen under these agreements. Again, if Senator Whish-Wilson had actually read this material, he would understand that that is the case and this is an issue that is directly relevant to these customs and customs tariff amendment bills here today. But that's not it; there is more, Senator Patrick, in terms of disadvantage for Australia. Australia would receive enhanced quota volumes for wheat and barley. Canada would receive an additional 40,000 tonnes of wheat exports into Japan—again, a significant disadvantage for Australian farmers. Australia's exports of wheat and barley to Japan were worth over half a billion dollars last financial year. So, again, there will be tangible and specific disadvantages for a number of Australian industries if we are not in that first six. The TPP-11 will eliminate all remaining tariffs on Australian raw wool exports to TPP-11 countries from entry into force. Australian wool exports to TPP-11 countries are valued at $35 million and growing.</para>
<para>Finally, the TPP-11 links Australia with some of the world's major automotive producers, including Japan, Mexico and Canada, and we would not have preferential access to these markets for our steel products. Senator Patrick, again, the facts are very clear, and I welcome these questions on this issue because they are directly relevant to these bills and the consequence of not passing these bills.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you are talking about the consequences of this treaty entering into force, and that's a very appropriate thing to do in this debate. But we shouldn't just talk about the positives; we also need to talk about the negatives—and I think that's what we have been doing and trying to do. Minister, you indicated to Senator Whish-Wilson that the treaty has been ratified when in actual fact it hasn't.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Reynolds interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I understand. It has been signed but it hasn't been ratified—and I note that, in your answer, you conceded that. I just wanted to make that relatively clear. We support free trade. We're just trying to deal with the unintended consequences—or maybe the intended negative consequences—and just trying to understand the magnitude of that consequence in order to make an informed decision about whether we allow legislation that would bring this agreement into force. I was asking questions about labour market testing. We know that, under this agreement, there are up to 450 categories of workers who may come in from overseas to fulfil a particular role for a multinational corporation. In the analysis and deliberations that took place, was there any measurement, modelling or calculation done as to how many workers per annum—assuming the treaty was being used effectively and benefits were flying on both sides—the government expects to come into the country as a result of this agreement?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would again note a couple of things in relation to this. The labour market testing and the issues around that have been answered by you and others over many hours. So, in terms of the substance of that, I'll again point you to <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>. Your specific question, which again is not relevant to these bills, relates to the debate before we signed the treaty back in March. Again, I'll point out that that is a discursive discussion better suited for estimates next week. However, as the senator well knows, that is almost a hypothetical, because it is market driven. So the government cannot tell you exactly how many, just as we couldn't with the Japanese, South Korean and Chinese free trade agreements because it is—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But you can tell us how much diverted trade there's going to be.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know the Greens have no concept of what 'market driven' means, but Senator Patrick does. You know very well, Senator Patrick, that this is market driven. And you were in the chamber when I gave this answer to Senator Hanson. To get some indication, if you go back and look at the three free trade agreements—with Japan, South Korea and China—you will find that, since they were ratified, 457 visa numbers for those countries have fallen. While we cannot tell you a precise number, as you well know—because it is market driven—if you would like to go into the treaty policy analysis of cabinet, that is something you can ask the minister in estimates next week and have a much more discursive discussion, which is not relevant to these bills here today.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I do understand the concept of 'market driven'; I was referring to discussions that may have taken place during the deliberations in respect of the treaty. Surely the government, as they were going through the machinations of considering the terms of the bill, would have looked at this and said, 'What does that mean for Australia?' I don't necessarily expect them to be right, because, as you correctly say, they're market driven. But it is not so much a hypothetical as it is an issue of fact. During the deliberations, when the Australian government was working on this agreement, did it ever look at the numbers of workers that it thought might come in as a result of the treaty coming into force?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'd refer you to my last answer and the many others before that. As you well know, those are questions about policy development and implementation that the parliament has had five opportunities that I'm aware of to ask and have answered, including in many Senate estimates, which I know you have been involved in. Again, you and I both know these are not questions for this session. If you want to keep asking about issues of policy that don't relate in any way to the substance of these customs bills, I can only keep providing the same answer: that is not relevant to this discussion, because, as you know, it is self-evident. No matter how calmly and nicely you ask these questions and pad them out, the answer is still the same, Senator Patrick: government considers these questions in the course of any treaty negotiation and process. The parliament has had ample opportunity over the last two years in this most debated, discussed and reviewed treaty process. If you want to ask questions about that process again in relation to these bills, I again suggest you raise them directly with the minister either in question time or, more appropriately, in estimates next week.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm trying to garner information for the vote that will be cast in relation to these bills. You must accept that they have quite significant consequences. It allows the treaty to come into force after six countries have ratified the treaty. Are you suggesting we shut down the committee stage just because we've had inquiries and Senate estimates? This is exactly what this stage of debate is about—making sure we have the details we require to make a good decision. If you're suggesting I hold off until next week, are you in a position to state that you would recommit the bills to a vote after these questions were answered at estimates?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Good grief! You are now having a lend of this chamber. You implied—in fact, you didn't imply; you said—I was seeking to gag debate in any way. We've had nearly 10 hours in this chamber in the second reading debate and probably at least seven hours on these same issues over and over again, which have been asked and answered many times. Many of the questions are completely irrelevant to this bill. You can ask these questions, as is your right. All of your colleagues in this chamber, the government and the opposition are according you the courtesy of allowing you to filibuster on this bill. And we will keep answering the questions. As long as you keep asking the questions, we will keep answering them, but the answers will be no different. You well know that these issues that you're raising now are not issues in relation to this bill or issues for this chamber at this time. But, of course, we will accord you the respect of allowing you to keep doing what you're doing. We're here to answer your questions as they're relevant.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you just accused me of being patronising a few minutes ago. Your idea is that somehow we are filibustering and trying to waste the committee's time by asking really important questions about supposedly the biggest multilateral trade and investment deal this country has ever signed. It has taken 13 years to get to this point. It has been highly controversial and extremely complex, and we still don't feel like we've got any answers out of this. I think you need to take on board that, if you're hearing similar questions repeated by various senators, it is probably because you didn't answer them in the first place.</para>
<para>The CHAIR: The question is that the amendment standing in the name of Senator Hanson-Young be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:20]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>26</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move Centre Alliance amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8523 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Schedule 1, item 3, page 8 (after line 6), at the end of Subdivision A, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">153ZKUA Cessation of effect of Division</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Division ceases to have effect on 1 January 2020 unless all of the following come into force for Australia before that day:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) bilateral side letters exchanged between Australia and each other Party agreeing that Chapter 9 of the Agreement, which deals with investor-State disputes, does not apply in relation to an investment in Australia by an investor of the other Party;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) bilateral side letters exchanged between Australia and each other Party agreeing that labour market testing must occur in relation to contractual service suppliers entering, or proposing to enter, Australia from the other Party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[sunsetting]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 4, page 19 (after line 18), at the end of Division 4EB, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">126AKM Cessation of effect of Division</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Division ceases to have effect on 1 January 2020 unless all of the following come into force for Australia before that day:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) bilateral side letters exchanged between Australia and each other Party agreeing that Chapter 9 of the Agreement, which deals with investor-State disputes, does not apply in relation to an investment in Australia by an investor of the other Party;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) bilateral side letters exchanged between Australia and each other Party agreeing that labour market testing must occur in relation to contractual service suppliers entering, or proposing to enter, Australia from the other Party.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[sunsetting]</inline></para></quote>
<para>I want to point out that the objective of this amendment is to include a sunset clause so that unless bilateral side letters are exchanged relating to ISDS provisions and labour market testing by 1 January 2020 this legislation is repealed. We believe that these amendments will allow the TPP-11 to enter into force but signal to other countries that Australia is planning to remove the ISDS clauses and reinstate labour market testing. If those arrangements haven't been made, the legislation will then be repealed.</para>
<para>These amendments give effect to the TPP. In that sense, they address the concerns raised by Senator Farrell in his statement yesterday, where he said that he was concerned that our exporters would miss out on a second tariff cut on 1 April 2019 for Japanese markets. That would give Canada and New Zealand an 11 per cent tariff cut on beef, making their rate lower than Australia's and hurting our beef producers. Our cheddar cheese producers would lose out to New Zealand, who would have a tariff rate four per cent lower than Australia's, et cetera.</para>
<para>Senator Carr, of course, raised some concerns about what would happen if we didn't enter into the TPP now. We respect those concerns. These amendments accommodate the Labor Party's announced intention to make sure that those provisions are removed, except that they provide a guarantee that is beyond Labor's control: if they are not elected next year, these sunset provisions will come into effect. That will, in effect, nullify our ratification and will keep their constituents—the unions and the hardworking Australians who vote for the Labor Party—happy. We would encourage Labor, in this instance, to support this.</para>
<para>I know a concern was raised by Senator Farrell that this may put in place an artificial deadline. Let's presume that the Labor Party were to form government next year and were to commence negotiations. If they felt that for some reason they weren't going to hit the deadline that was imposed by these amendments, I can then assure the Labor Party that we would be very open to a change. In good faith, they could come to us—or Senator Griff and myself, at the very least—and we would perhaps support a change to give more time for the Labor Party to have either these cancerous provisions removed or the labour market testing restored. In that context, I urge the Labor Party to support these amendments that not only are consistent with their national platform but are consistent with the plan that Mr Shorten has announced and made a commitment to in respect to their constituents.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that amendments (1) and (2) on sheet 8523 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [12:32]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Bernardi)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>24</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.<br />Bills agreed to.<br />Bills reported without amendments; report adopted.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>27</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bills be read a third time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [12:40]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator Bernardi) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>15</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bills read a third time. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</title>
        <page.no>28</page.no>
        <type>STATEMENTS BY SENATORS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Embassy: Israel</title>
          <page.no>28</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The announcement by the Prime Minister to investigate the possibility of relocating the Australian embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv is to be applauded. Every sovereign nation has the right to determine the capital and its seat of government. Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East that abides by the rule of law, is slighted by elements of the world community not recognising its designated capital. It would be like countries saying to Australia, 'We don't recognise Canberra'—for whatever reason—'and, therefore, we will place our embassy in Goulburn.' No slight to Goulburn. I'm sure it's a great city and town in the state of New South Wales—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Molan</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Indeed it is.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ABETZ</name>
    <name.id>N26</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan agrees, so I'm glad I have that support in this debate. It is important to recognise that a sovereign nation has the right to determine its national capital. So I'm delighted that there is now a move within the world community to right this wrong. It is a move that has been discussed for a long time, and countries as diverse as Guatemala, Paraguay, the Czech Republic, Romania, Honduras and, indeed, the United States have engaged in this discussion.</para>
<para>In relation to the United States it is very informative to look at the history. The history is that former President Bill Clinton made the promise that he would move the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. President George W Bush, through his two terms, also made that promise. And guess who else made that promise? It was none other than President Barack Obama, through his two terms. The two houses of Congress have passed motion after motion for over two decades supporting this move. And, yet, interestingly, when a United States President, the fourth in a row making this promise, actually delivers on the promise it is somehow to be condemned. I for one support the United States' stance in relation to this issue in delivering on a very clearly enunciated election promise by President Trump, and an election promise clearly enunciated on the basis of a fundamental principle as to what is right in all the circumstances.</para>
<para>In moving the embassy to Jerusalem, the false assertion is made that somehow this might prejudice the peace process. Let's be very clear that any consideration by Australia to move the embassy—and I stress it's only a consideration at this stage—would be to move it to West Jerusalem, which is not disputed territory in relation to the peace process between Israel and Palestine. West Jerusalem was part and parcel of the borders, or within the borders, of Israel prior to the 1967 war, and therefore it is not disputed territory. I think that is something that it is very important to recognise.</para>
<para>I do note that the Labor Party yesterday tried to use question time to argue against the investigation. Arguing against an investigation must simply be motivated by politics, pure and simple, unless there is another agenda. And whilst the Liberal Party, at both a federal council level and state council levels, has overwhelmingly passed motions supporting the move of the Australian embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to West Jerusalem, I note that the Labor Party has listed at its conference later this year a debate on whether a future Labor government would recognise 'the Palestinian state'. Let's be clear: if you want to recognise 'the Palestinian state', you have a choice. The choice is to recognise the Hamas-run Gaza Strip—and Hamas is something that we in this country recognise as a terrorist organisation—or to recognise the Palestinian authority, which, if my memory serves me correctly, is currently in the 14th year of its three-year term of parliament. What a great beacon of democracy: in its 14th year, after having been elected for only a three-year term.</para>
<para>The other element for a peace process is that whoever might form the Palestinian government in the future has to recognise the right of Israel's existence, and that is something that those on the Palestinian side have continued to refuse to dedicate themselves to. Until such time as the Palestinian community is willing to recognise Israel's right to exist, there is an existential threat to Israel for its ongoing maintenance and existence. That is why, with a peace process, the very sensitive and sensible suggestion by the United States of moving its embassy to West Jerusalem, which is not in disputed territory, actually allows the peace process to continue. Whilst these acts of terrorism are emanating out of the Palestinian area, it is very important to recognise that Israel has a right to exist, that Israel is a state that is under severe threat on an ongoing basis. But here we have the Labor Party wanting to recognise the Palestinian state. Let them say whether they would want the Palestinian state to be run by the terrorist organisation Hamas or the Palestinian authority that has remained in power for 14 years after having been elected for a three-year term. And let them condemn, as indeed the Greens should condemn, the anti-Semitic—indeed, the racist—campaign of BDS, or 'boycott, divestment and sanctions', against Israel and the businesses that operate from Israel.</para>
<para>So, the announcement by the Prime Minister in recent days that Australia would have a look at moving its embassy is a very welcome move. It is based on the views of many countries around the world that this should happen. Countries are actually doing it as we speak. Within the Australian body politic there have been moves within the Liberal Party. And indeed Australia's most recent Ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma, has seen the benefits of investigating this as well. You may know that Dave Sharma is the endorsed Liberal candidate for the seat of Wentworth—a man who was appointed as the youngest-ever ambassador for Australia under the previous Labor government. That is the high regard in which he is held on both sides of politics for his capacity.</para>
<para>That is why I am delighted that the Prime Minister, having listened to the wisdom and experience of such a wonderful former ambassador as Dave Sharma and to the Liberal Party councils and to other countries around the world, is now giving serious consideration to moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to West Jerusalem, which would right a wrong that has continued for far too long. I look forward to the outcomes of the investigation and trust that West Jerusalem will be chosen in due course to be the site of the Australian embassy in Israel.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Transport Industry, Tasmania: Goods and Services Tax</title>
          <page.no>29</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Trucking is the lifeblood of our nation. Our drivers and our freight vehicles keep the Australian economy flowing, transporting millions of tonnes of freight around our nation each year. Every day, around 4,000 heavy trucks make the 12-hour journey between Sydney and Melbourne and the 3,600-kilometre journey between Sydney and Brisbane. Some of them are B-doubles: a prime mover and two semitrailers with a combined loaded weight of up to 68 tonnes and a length of 25 metres. Trucks transport millions of tonnes of goods each year, and demand is expected to double in the future. Large amounts of freight are moved on Tasmanian roads, and I've spoken previously about the lack of rest stops for drivers. Interestingly, truck driving employs around 200,000 workers across Australia, and it's clear that trucks and drivers are a vital part of our economy. However, improvements to the sector need to be made, and they need to be made urgently because driving trucks in Australia is one of the deadliest jobs.</para>
<para>A study by Monash University of 12 years worth of data shows that truck drivers are 13 times more likely to die at work than workers in any other profession. The long hours, social isolation, time pressure and lack of job control also make it one of the unhealthiest jobs. Approximately 40 per cent of all workplace deaths in Australia involve road transport workers, and the study found that truck drivers are exposed to a variety of occupational stresses such as constant time pressures, social isolation, disrespectful treatment from others, driving hazards, and violence or fear of violence. It also found that around one million weeks of work were lost over this time period because of injury. Seventeen per cent of this working time loss was due to vehicle crashes. The remaining eight per cent of these lost weeks was due to other causes such as slips and trips, falls, noise, and physical and psychological stress. Musculoskeletal injuries and fractures made up the vast bulk of accepted claims. But mental health is a major factor when the amount of time off needed is taken into consideration. Half of the drivers with mental health conditions were off work for 10 weeks or longer.</para>
<para>In government, Labor was very aware of the issues in the trucking industry. We created the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal to investigate these issues and to set safe rates. Between 2012 and 2016, the Road Safety Remuneration Tribunal set pay and conditions for drivers in the road transport industry and held wealthy companies to account for low-cost contracts which put drivers and other road users at risk, because what we on this side knew and what the tribunal proved is that better working conditions for drivers mean safer roads for all Australians. Safe rates guarantee that every truckie on our road is behind the wheel of a well-maintained vehicle, won't have to risk falling asleep on the job just to make a living and isn't trying to meet an impossible deadline. Unfortunately, the Liberal government scrapped the tribunal in 2016, despite evidence showing that it was working.</para>
<para>Research showed a 50 per cent decline in fatal heavy truck crashes after the tribunal was established in 2012 and an approximately 25 per cent decline in the number of resultant deaths. The tribunal made the industry safer. It ensured that truck drivers were not under as much pressure to accept unsafe loads and unsafe turnaround times, and ensured that they were paid a rate that allowed for the required maintenance of their vehicles. But the government, in its wisdom, decided that truck drivers were not worth worrying about and that boosting the profits of major companies was more important than drivers' lives. So the improvements that were beginning to take effect have been rolled back. A Macquarie University study from February showed that one in 10 truck drivers works over 80 hours a week; one in six owner-drivers said that drivers can't refuse an unsafe load; and 42 per cent of owner-drivers said the reason drivers do not report safety breaches is the fear of losing their jobs. These are shocking statistics. Safe rates save lives, not just for truck drivers but for all road users. The government's own report showed that the safe rate system would reduce truck crashes by 28 per cent.</para>
<para>A Transport Workers Union witness to a recent hearing of the Senate education and employment committee, which I am a member of, told us that around 50 truck drivers would still be alive today if the tribunal was allowed to continue. That is 50 families torn apart for no reason other than corporate greed. The government has clearly got a lot to answer for. Australian drivers need the powers of the tribunal to be restored, and this vital work needs to been continued in some way. Truck drivers need safe rates to ensure that they can do their job safely and that at the end of the day they can get home safely.</para>
<para>On another note, I want to speak on an issue of great importance to the people of Tasmania. I know Senator Urquhart will be very interested in this. The government don't know what they're doing from one day to the next, as we know. Dysfunction has risen to a whole new level. They've flip-flopped on their policies time and again since Mr Morrison's supporters joined Peter Dutton's supporters to roll Malcolm Turnbull so that they could then elect Mr Morrison as leader. Their policy is being done on the run, and it's poorly thought through. It's for short-term political advantage, and they don't really care if the interests of the nation or of individual states in our Commonwealth are impacted.</para>
<para>A case in point is the government's dysfunctional approach to the issue of the GST distribution. Under the Morrison government, Tasmania could still be up to $248 million worse off. It is clear that the Morrison government don't really care for Tasmanians at all. Their policy on the run could see significant reductions in funds available for Tasmanian hospitals and schools, and we're all well aware of the crisis in the Tasmanian health system. Tasmanians are extremely concerned about the state of our hospitals. Similarly, our schools are already under-resourced after years of Liberal cuts, and it's clear that Tasmania cannot afford to lose even one dollar of GST.</para>
<para>Tasmanian Labor senators and members first raised our concerns about Tasmania's GST prior to the Productivity Commission inquiry. We've been raising our concerns about how Tasmania could be impacted by changes to the GST for a very, very long time now. We saw the government try to delay the report of the Productivity Commission until after the Tasmanian state election in March, and then we saw both the state and federal Liberals try and brush aside concerns during the recent Braddon by-election. But now that we're at the pointy end, the government can no longer delay and cloud the issue. For weeks and weeks the government have refused to guarantee that no state would be worse off. Labor has been calling on Mr Morrison to support an amendment to legislate a guarantee that no state or territory will be worse off under the changes to the GST. Last week, the Tasmanian federal parliamentary Labor Party—our Senate team and my colleagues over in the House, Julie Collins, Ross Hart, Justine Keay and Brian Mitchell—wrote to all four Liberal senators calling on them to support this amendment, which will protect in legislation our state's share for the long term. They had refused to make that pledge.</para>
<para>Just over a week ago in Hobart, the Treasurer rejected a plan to include the legislative guarantee that Labor had been calling for. Prime Minister Morrison and Treasurer Frydenberg said that this legislative guarantee wasn't necessary. Labor said that it was. However, yesterday the Prime Minister and Treasurer were forced into partially agreeing with Labor on the distribution of the GST. While a good step forward, it's embarrassing for the Liberals that the Liberal government continues to make up this policy on the run, when Tasmania stands to lose a reported $248 million without protections. The government has been following Labor on this every step of the way, but more details must be released about the Liberal government's plans. The Tasmanian federal Labor members and senators continue to hold concerns about the future of our state's GST share for the long term.</para>
<para>I know Prime Minister Morrison has characterised Tasmanians as 'beggars'—I think his actual word was 'mendicants'. Whether he did so with or without the alleged expletive is immaterial. It's still an offensive way to describe one of the founding states of the Commonwealth. Australia is a Commonwealth, a federation of states, and all states contribute in a variety of ways to our great nation. We are stronger when we work together to ensure that the needs of all Australians are met. The greatest risk for the future prosperity of Tasmania is Prime Minister Morrison and his government.</para>
<para>Tasmanians must be assured that any change to the way the GST is distributed does not leave our state any worse off now or into the future under any government. We need a Prime Minister who respects all of the states, not one willing to sell out some states in order to gain votes elsewhere. We don't need a Prime Minister who is lagging behind Labor's suggestions, as has happened with the GST. He has finally partially capitulated to agreeing with Labor on the distribution of GST. As I said, while it is a good step forward, it is embarrassing that the Liberal government continues to make up this policy on the run. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Morrison Government</title>
          <page.no>31</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Morrison government has decided that it wants us to focus on foreign policy in the lead-up to the Wentworth by-election. But yesterday's rash and dangerous announcement regarding Jerusalem and the Iran nuclear deal was nothing more than a crude attempt to divert our attention and divide our community. Clearly, when it comes to the by-election in Wentworth, no price is too high for the Prime Minister. In a desperate attempt to appeal to a narrow segment of the community and to distract from the hopeless division within his government, he made that announcement yesterday.</para>
<para>This is a divided government. It is divided over whether religious schools should be able to fire teachers simply because they're gay. It's divided over the fact that people are now being tortured, murdered and abused in our off-shore detention camps, under the care of Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton. It is divided over the science of climate change. We now know that many people are suffering under appalling drought conditions, with the government reluctant—indeed, refusing—to acknowledge the causes of that drought. Prime Minister Morrison, if you're keen to focus on foreign policy, let's have a look at your record. We're more than happy to oblige, because it is a dismal record. It is a history of lying low, averting our eyes and abrogating our responsibility to show leadership on human rights and the rule of law.</para>
<para>Let's start with the issue of Jerusalem. The Prime Minister's announcement yesterday was yet another sign of Australia's complete and utter capitulation to Donald Trump's erratic and reactionary world view. The government is lining up behind a dangerous and unstable US President to destroy any prospect of a just peace in Israel and Palestine. He is sacrificing our relationship with close friends and neighbours—just look at the response of the Indonesian government. His chief cheerleader is the Israeli Prime Minister, Netanyahu, with his abhorrent policies and behaviour. In even raising the prospect of recognising Jerusalem as Israel's capital and moving our embassy, the Prime Minister is supporting the Israeli's settlement enterprise. Let's be absolutely clear about this: settlement building is a flagrant violation of international law. It is illegal.</para>
<para>It's not just the settlements; it seems there is no Israeli government atrocity to which the Prime Minister wouldn't turn a blind eye: the endless siege, the marginalisation of the Arabic language and the deaths of over 100 Palestinian protesters. Just look at the opposition expressed by the Prime Minister to the Iran nuclear deal. We are jettisoning any respect that we had from European countries, who unequivocally support the deal. Is this the type of foreign policy Australians want, where we slavishly follow an erratic madman who governs his country by offensive rants on Twitter at 4 am? That's not the sort of foreign policy a smart country like Australia engages in.</para>
<para>Let me turn to another major foreign policy story this week. Jamal Khashoggi, a respected Saudi journalist and writer for <inline font-style="italic">The Washington Post</inline>, entered the Saudi consulate in Turkey last week to collect marriage documents and never came out. All evidence now points to his murder. We now know, through media reports, that the Saudis are about to fess up. Yet where is the statement from our foreign minister?</para>
<para>This is just like how we didn't hear a peep about Saudi atrocities in Yemen. At least 10,000 Yemenis have been killed, many while going about their daily business, attending weddings and doing their groceries, and children on their way to school. Yemen is on the brink of the world's worst famine in over 100 years if this war continues. Starvation is being used as a weapon of war on 13 million people. And what's our response? We reward the perpetrators. We enthusiastically sell Australian military equipment to Saudi Arabia's national guard. Former defence industry minister Christopher Pyne proudly trumpets his success in selling to war criminals and spruiks his multibillion dollar plan to make Australia a global arms dealer—all while cutting our international aid budget to the lowest levels on record. It is utterly contemptible. Our response to the gruesome Saudi regime is one of the many examples of our crawling retreat on human rights and development.</para>
<para>Let's look at our own region. In Myanmar, the United Nations has found clear evidence of acts that amount to crimes against humanity, war crimes and, in all likelihood, genocide. Its recent fact-finding report found evidence of the rape of Rohingya women and the torture of an unknown number of innocent Rohingya people, which led to hundreds of thousands fleeing their homes. Yet, still, the Prime Minister sees fit to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars cooperating with the Myanmar military. The UK, the EU and the US have all decided that working with their military is irresponsible, that it's a bridge too far, but not our government. A few weeks ago, the foreign minister finally flagged that we might have some sanctions, but still nothing has happened. I ask again: what more could it possibly take for the Liberals to take a stand against the genocidal regime in Myanmar?</para>
<para>Even closer to home, our neighbours in West Papua are still being denied self-determination nearly 50 years after the 'act of no choice' locked in the Indonesian occupation of their ancestral lands. If you're a journalist, you can't get a visa there; West Papuans are regularly arrested or even killed for peacefully protesting; and you can be beaten or murdered for flying the Morning Star flag in West Papua. But the Australian government still provides diplomatic cover for these atrocities and helps train paramilitaries, like Detachment 88, that are implicated in some of the worst of the violence. In Cambodia, we still refuse to take any concrete action against the murderous and illegitimate Hun Sen regime after the recent sham elections there—and they were a sham. How about we end that shameful refugee deal with Cambodia and implement sanctions against Hun Sen and his cronies? That would be a good start.</para>
<para>I could go on. I could talk about our disgraceful decision to thumb our noses at the Paris climate agreement, which makes us an international pariah and condemns many of our neighbours in the Pacific to a future of rising sea levels, where they will lose their homes to severe storms and lose arable land and drinking water. I could talk about the fact that our measly and ever-decreasing aid budget is a shameful response from a wealthy, civilised country like Australia. Our international development budget is now at its lowest levels on record, at a time when the need has never been greater. A country like Australia can and must contribute its fair share to the efforts around the world made by countries poorer than ours to lift people out of poverty; to educate young children; and to provide health care, sanitation and water for people who don't have it. It is a disgrace that we are slashing the international development budget and continuing to support some of the most murderous regimes on the planet.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, I've only got a minute left to speak. Let me just say to the Prime Minister of this country and to his candidate in Wentworth: your foreign policy credentials do nothing to recommend you to the people in your community. Stop standing shoulder to shoulder with the US President, that lunatic who's currently occupying the White House. Stop providing cover to human rights abusers just because some of them might be our allies or because you see benefit in a trade relationship with them. Stop providing cover to them because we sell them arms or we deposit our refugees there. Show some courage. Make us proud to be Australian again. Stop trashing our name on the world stage. Protect the rule of law and protect human rights, because there is so much work to do.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry</title>
          <page.no>32</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'SULLIVAN</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My contribution, with this opportunity, is to speak briefly in relation to matters around the banking royal commission or, more importantly, about some of the issues that the royal commission has exposed. For so many in this parliament, across both sides of the aisle, it is a matter now of history that for a decade or more there were increasing concerns about the behaviour of our financial institutions, not just confined to banking but in the fields of insurance, superannuation and financial advice. I think that it's not an understatement to say that the revelations to date with the Hayne commission of inquiry have shocked all of Australia and, indeed, certain sectors in the financial community. I don't think anyone had a real handle on the depth, breadth, complexity and systemic nature of the behaviour within the banking systems.</para>
<para>Tragically, some of it was policy driven within those institutions. When I say 'policy driven', they created an environment with the highest possible risk for these behaviours to emerge. Commissioner Hayne has used the word 'greed'. Wherever you have things such as incentivised lending or bonus schemes for senior executives that are indexed into financial performances then, of course, that will drive an effort by all concerned to do whatever it takes to increase the volume of their financial interactions with customers, not necessarily in the customers' interests but in the interests of the bank. Where you have incentivised lending—that is to say that an officer of the bank is only rewarded if they successfully lend some people money—it should come as no surprise that they will do whatever it takes, and most times that won't be in the interests of the customer.</para>
<para>On the retail lending end, we have seen the impacts of this particularly in, but not confined to, agriculture, where security assets provided by the borrower cover everything. They don't have an opportunity to separate the family home or any other goods, chattels or tools of trade from the lending. They are all covered by an umbrella of security. So when they get a stone in their shoe and things don't go well and there are foreclosures, they lose everything. Sometimes their entire life's effort and, indeed, a generational effort is concerned.</para>
<para>Then we have financial advisory services. I don't mean to reflect adversely on most Australians, but so many—myself included for phases of my life—are quite unsophisticated when it comes to investing. When we present ourselves to financial advisers, we're expecting to get sound, professional, independent advice. There are tens of thousands of financial packages, products and opportunities out there for companies to invest in—buy shares, manage funds, trusts and so on—yet the banks saw a major opportunity and bought up these financial services. When ordinary Australians are at a financial services business, they're probably dealing with a little bit or a lot of accumulated wealth depending on their status in life, and they are all in. I suppose the customers had the same attitude towards them as they would to their pharmacist or medical practitioner. They thought, 'They're in my corner; they're going to guide me and give me the best advice.' We all know what happens when they're bought by a particular financial institution: the investment advice you're given is confined to the parameters of products and investments owned by that particular bank, and the same with insurance. We've had ample evidence over time of where the banks and major insurance companies have owned up to 19 different brands of insurance, and they refer clients amongst the brands without telling them that they own them all.</para>
<para>I had a case brought to me by someone I know very well, a relative, who worked for a major insurance company. He or she was trained to say to customers on the phone, 'I'd lose my job if they knew I was going to tell you this, but I think you'd be better off going to the ABC insurance company. I know our company will lose your patronage, but I think you'd be better off over there'—all the while putting that intelligence into a system. The customer goes away and phones the recommended 'ABC' company, and a young man or woman in the booth next door answers the call, because all the calls come into one controlled centre. This stuff borders on criminal activity.</para>
<para>I've said before that no amount of legislation, regulation, oversight or investment in ASIC and APRA will ever solve this problem. These places are too big for regulators and law enforcement agencies to stay on top of. This has to come with a cultural shift. As I have said in this place before, I was involved in two royal commissions and the implementation in both instances of the recommendations of the commissioners. One had to do with law enforcement and the other had to do with corrections. I have seen major shifts in cultural behaviour within those particular sectors as a result of their corruption being exposed over a long period of time. We're seeing that with the banks, but I have a fear. I will continue to increase my call for the banks to divest themselves of ownership—split up, if you like—and send off the financial advising assets that they have so they can go back to being truly independent advisory centres where people can rely upon their advice and not be wondering whether they're getting the wool pulled completely over their eyes.</para>
<para>The banks are not immune to arguments about impacts of this behaviour. I know the names of families where suicides have occurred. I don't know whether people have brought some of the pain upon themselves, and I'm not suggesting for one moment that in some cases it may not have been the case. I'm not suggesting the banks are responsible for every circumstance where there has been a foreclosure in a family, but there are many where that was the case. These people were taken to the edge of the envelope with respect to their investments, encouraged with soft money, overdrafts, interest-only and no obligation to pay down the capital for years. This money was spent on supporting themselves in many cases through drought conditions, and it was never going to return. The productivity of the property never had the capacity to return it.</para>
<para>Ten minutes isn't enough time, so I will visit this again. But I want to send a clear message: nobody trusts the banks anymore. No-one in this parliament, I suspect, trusts the banks at the moment and I expect that generations of parliaments will watch them very, very closely. We will watch to see if their behaviour as they respond to these revelations is the appropriate behaviour to resist and militate against the chances of this happening again. I think they need to have a very hard look at divesting themselves of these more risky practices.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Wentworth By-Election</title>
          <page.no>34</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This weekend the citizens of Wentworth have a very clear choice to make. If they vote for the Liberal candidate, Dave Sharma, it is business as usual—more chaos, more division, more privatisation of public assets. It is continued attacks on public health and public education. It is continued attacks on the rights of gay and lesbian Australians and it is continued attacks on the independence of the ABC. It is more cover-ups like Senator Cash and the AWU raids; the Minister for Home Affairs, Peter Dutton, and the au pairs; and Assistant Treasurer Stuart Robert, who expended almost $40,000 of public money on home internet bills.</para>
<para>Most alarmingly for the voters of Wentworth, it is more cosying up by the Liberal Party to One Nation and the racist, divisive, anti-Semitic policies of the far right. Just today, in <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> newspaper, we read that a gaggle of Liberal and National politicians recently attended a conference that included events organised by neo-Nazis espousing hate towards the LGBTI community and other minority groups. Coalition MPs and senators, including the member for Hughes, Craig Kelly, the member for Dawson, George Christiansen, and Senators Amanda Stoker and James Paterson, attended LibertyFest last month. They were joined by Senator Fraser Anning, the former One Nation member, who actually addressed a neo-Nazi rally and whom the Liberal government relies on for his vote in the Senate.</para>
<para>Also in attendance was the vile racist, misogynistic and homophobic neo-Nazi group the True Blue Crew. As part of LibertyFest the True Blue Crew held a rally opposing the Safe Schools program, which supports at-risk gay students. Speakers at the rally said the most vile and offensive things about Senator Penny Wong, one of the most prominent and respected women in the country. These racist, homophobic and obnoxious rantings were then posted on social media. These are the people the modern Liberal Party appease and share platforms with—racist, homophobic, demented neo-Nazis. So, make no mistake, a vote for Dave Sharma this weekend is a vote for a Liberal Party that is beholden to the far right and the most divisive and toxic politics this country has ever seen.</para>
<para>Alternatively, Wentworth voters can make a departure from the chaotic and nasty politics of the past few years and not reward the Liberal Party for toppling Malcolm Turnbull. They can vote for Tim Murray and, in doing so, elect someone who is a local, someone involved in the local community, someone who will speak up against racism, homophobia and misogyny and someone who will support the ABC. Unlike North Shore import Dave Sharma, they can vote for someone who understands grassroots issues affecting the local community—issues like the secretive and outrageous sale of the Bondi Beach post office. The sale of this valuable public asset has shocked the local community and was being pursued by Tim Murray long before he decided to run for Wentworth. I joined Tim in the prepoll booth last week, and I was astounded to hear about the process that was undertaken to sell the post office. The Bondi Beach post office is an important community asset. It is heavily utilised by local businesses, older residents regularly use the post office service, and it's used by thousands of tourists who help drive the local economy at Bondi Beach. It is bizarre that the sale of a heritage listed building by Australia Post did not go to tender, given the value and demand for real estate in close proximity to Australia's most famous beach.</para>
<para>In 2016, astonishingly, Australia Post entered into an agreement with a Mr Jamie Nemtsas for a $10 million option to purchase the post office. Mr Nemtsas on-sold the post office to north Sydney based construction company Taylor for a reported $15 million. As noted in a November 2017 <inline font-style="italic">Financial Review</inline> article, Mr Nemtsas flipped the property, making a staggering profit of $5 million. Indeed, there is only one Australia Post in a lifetime for Mr Nemtsas. Taylor has since lodged a development application for an apartment block on the site which has received 1,000 objections from locals. The initial development application was rejected in July, with Taylor requested to do further work on the heritage and structural plans. So here we have a valuable and important public asset, a community asset that is heavily utilised by residents, sold off for a pittance without going to tender, behind closed doors, and the guy that buys it on-sells the property, pocketing a hefty $5 million that should have been returned to the community.</para>
<para>Is it any wonder Bondi residents are up in arms about the sale and the prospect of losing their centrally located post office? The $5 million pocketed by this Melbourne based businessman cum property developer would go a long way towards providing important community infrastructure in Wentworth and ensuring an alternative post office could be built for the Bondi Beach community. Parking, public amenities, football fields and playgrounds could also have been funded with that $5 million windfall.</para>
<para>To add insult to injury, in March this year Australia Post's general manager of procurement and property, Adam Treffry, who was responsible for the sale of the site, left Australia Post and joined Cushman & Wakefield, the international property giant managing Australia Post's New South Wales property portfolio. In light of all this secrecy and manoeuvring, Australia Post needs to explain to Senate estimates if there are any links between Cushman & Wakefield and Nemtsas or between Treffry and Nemtsas.</para>
<para>This, of course, is not the first time Australia Post has sold lucrative public real estate in secret. In March last year it sold the Martin Place GPO to Singaporean international property developer Far East for $150 million and never announced the deal. What is going on at Australia Post, where these multimillion-dollar deals involving public assets are being done behind closed doors?</para>
<para>Waverley Mayor John Wakefield has pursued this outrageous private sale of public property on behalf of his community. He is outraged by the secrecy and says there is enormous community concern about the sale and that he has found it extremely difficult to get any information from Australia Post about the process. If the Mayor of Waverley Council can't get a straight answer as to why this public asset was flogged off behind closed doors, what hope have the ratepayers and residents of Bondi Beach got? The answer is none, and that is exactly how the architects of this dodgy sale process designed it to be.</para>
<para>The sale of this valuable public asset was, of course, made possible by the corporatisation of Australia Post by none other than the coalition government. All of this does at least give us some insight into how public assets are managed under the Liberals, and it resembles something you'd expect to see in postcommunist oligarchy Russia. While the methods might be a bit more nuanced in Australia than they are in Moscow, the results are exactly the same: spivs getting rich on the proceeds of public assets facilitated by public officials. This whole story has a nasty whiff about it. I look forward to Tim Murray being elected on Saturday so that he can continue to pursue this outrageous sale of a valuable community asset.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Liberal Democrats</title>
          <page.no>35</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Lately other senators have started talking about their achievements. They don't have much to talk about. That's not the case with the Liberal Democrats. We have clear principles, so we know what we want and occasionally, regularly, we get it. Last month I gave a speech in which I described a few of our achievements. There was no time to mention everything, so today I'll run through a few more. It won't be everything, again, so there will be more on this.</para>
<para>Soon after I started as a senator, I moved to disallow a regulation to increase levies on mangos, onions and mushrooms. It was clear that grower consultation was a joke and major producers were being screwed. My disallowance motion prompted an inquiry into the levy system by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee. By the end of the first hour of evidence at the first hearing the committee could see what I knew already: the system was broken. Some farmer groups had never been consulted. Some voted to impose a levy the first time but never again. Some were asked to vote to increase the levy, but the vote was so rigged it was laughable.</para>
<para>It was also apparent that the collection system was a mess. Nobody knew whether all the growers were paying levies or paying them on the same basis. In most sectors there was no register of levy payers. Considering levies totalling more than $500 million a year are collected, this was alarming.</para>
<para>In response to the inquiry, the department embarked on a process of requiring each sector to establish databases of levy payers. That process is still occurring, but considerable progress has been made. My hope is that eventually levy payers will vote every three or five years to decide whether to continue paying levies, at what level and perhaps even on matters of general strategic direction regarding what their levies could be used for—for example, marketing versus R&D. This was all because of what I started with, a disallowance motion.</para>
<para>In the last parliament, former senator John Madigan sought my assistance to establish an inquiry into the health effects of wind farms. I helped prepare terms of reference and helped get the motion passed and took a leading role in the inquiry itself. I also took the lead on drafting the interim report. Then I led a crossbench deputation to then Prime Minister Tony Abbott to have its recommendations implemented. He needed our vote and he agreed. The result was that one of the outcomes was implemented, the creation of the Wind Farm Commissioner. I'm no supporter of wind farms, particularly when they're subsidised, but at least that's a question of opinion. Telling people it's their fault if they become sick when a wind farm is established near their home is just not on by any standard, and that's what was happening.</para>
<para>The commissioner has shown himself to be a solver of problems. He kicked the wind industry in the behind and forced it to deal with unhappy neighbours in a decent fashion and to take account of them when planning and developing a wind farm. He prepared guidelines, which state governments have adopted in their planning rules. So the potential for neighbours to be made sick by wind farms has been substantially reduced. Wind farm developers must now also abide by the conditions of approval, which they didn't used to think were necessary. Now that the WHO has agreed that wind farms can have adverse health effects, the inquiry and its results have been fully vindicated. The Wind Farm Commissioner was quite recently reappointed, with no objections.</para>
<para>We all know the ABC and SBS live in a politically correct bubble. They represent a certain section of society—green, left leaning, well-educated and prosperous—and are almost entirely unaware of how much they are out of touch with the rest of Australia. In an attempt to do something about that, I negotiated with the government to require the boards of both organisations to hold half their meetings in regional areas and to conduct public forums at the same time. I can't say I've noticed any difference yet, as both are just as remote from mainstream Australia as ever. But I live in hope that, sooner or later, contact with people outside of the bubble might make a difference.</para>
<para>I also negotiated with the government to promote a review of court suppression order regimes around the country via COAG. Courts in some states are very quick to suppress details of court proceedings, severely inhibiting media reporting. This is fundamentally dangerous to public confidence in the justice system, which relies on transparency. That review has commenced, although it has some way to run. I'm pleased to say the current Attorney-General is aware of my concern on this and is continuing to pursue it.</para>
<para>Another issue I have pursued is the Commonwealth's conduct when engaged in litigation. Notwithstanding a set of rules known as the model litigant rules, the Commonwealth is notorious for behaving in an abysmal fashion, using its bottomless taxpayer-funded pockets to run up litigant costs and force them to capitulate. I introduced a bill to allow parties harmed by this behaviour to seek relief from the court while the Ombudsman investigated. It wouldn't prevent all poor behaviour by the Commonwealth, but it would be a step in the right direction. An inquiry into the bill is in progress and seems likely to conclude that the bill is warranted. I unashamedly claim credit for the fact that this issue is now on the government's agenda.</para>
<para>In response to complaints from rural communities, I moved to establish a select committee to inquire into implementation of the Murray-Darling Basin Plan. It was a particularly productive inquiry, with committee membership dominated by the crossbench. What the inquiry found is that water is being taken from productive agriculture in New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland and is being sent down the Murray River and the Darling River to South Australia on the assumption that this will somehow improve the environment in the Lower Lakes, Coorong and Murray Mouth. The problem is that geography has been ignored. The barrages at the mouth of the Murray keep the lakes artificially fresh so that a lot of fresh water just evaporates and there's no real flushing effect. The Murray Mouth remains blocked, and the Coorong is dying. Clearly, the report of the committee hit a nerve. Since then there have been more inquiries and now the Productivity Commission is reviewing the implementation of the plan. Let's hope the government finally acknowledges that there is a problem.</para>
<para>Finally, I established a committee to inquire into personal choice, otherwise known as the nanny state inquiry. It's shone a light on a series of issues in which governments have imposed rules in order to save us from ourselves when nobody else is harmed. I can't point to any specific outcomes and, in any case, many of the issues were within the jurisdiction of the states; but the inquiry exposed a vast amount of community concern at being told how to live. The issue is still very much alive.</para>
<para>There are many more achievements I could mention, but I'll need another one or two more speeches to cover them. Of course, more needs to be done. Taxes and government spending remain far too high and red tape and nanny state regulations continue to put a straightjacket on Australians going about their business. But some progress has been made and, with more Liberal Democrats elected to the Senate, we can achieve much more.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Glyphosate</title>
          <page.no>36</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on a topic close to my heart and close to my origins in farming. The topic is the use of glyphosate, one of the most effective, safe and useful chemicals that, I think it's safe to say, was ever available to the farming community. Why is it such an important chemical for the Australian agricultural sector? It's important for many reasons, but one of the key reasons is that glyphosate has actually been one of the key tools in allowing the use of minimum-till technology in the Australian broadacre farming environment.</para>
<para>Minimum-till agriculture has a few impacts. Basically, it offers farmers the chance to farm broadacre landscapes in a much less invasive way. Glyphosates allow weeds to be controlled on the surface without having to be ploughed. What does this do? It means that nutrients and water are retained in the soil. Ploughing, obviously, can release nutrients, increase run-off and increase evaporation from the soil. Minimum-till farming has been shown to reduce erosion in landscapes by up to 90 per cent. Obviously, that's great for the farmer, as it preserves those nutrients on the farm and preserves water in the soil, but it's also great for the environment. Healthier soils permit healthier crops. Healthier soils permit greater yields. So, to get the same tonnage of grain or the same production of beef or sheepmeat, you need fewer acres. In addition, obviously, there are significant reductions in emissions and in expenses associated with minimum-till farming.</para>
<para>Glyphosate is used to control a very large number of often aggressive or noxious weeds which, if left unchecked, do have the potential to take over landscapes and can be devastating to native flora and fauna. Unfortunately, there is a campaign underway—and we've seen it in the US and, in particular, in Europe—to try and knock glyphosate out of use, to take it out of a farmer's toolkit and to remove what is a very safe and effective chemical from use, particularly in broadacre landscapes. Recently, we saw in a US court case the award of damages of around $300 million to a groundskeeper whose claim centred on a case of terminal non-Hodgkin's lymphoma which he attributed to his use of Roundup at work over many years. Obviously this is a dramatic case and a dramatic finding from a court, but we must always remember that such findings are not based on scientific assessments. Yes, duelling expert witnesses are often part of such cases, but we must recognise that court cases and findings such as this are not based on the science. The case has been seized upon by activists and by the media to shine a light on the use of glyphosate, and that has effectively sidelined the very significant body of scientific literature that says that glyphosate is safe and has been proven to be safe over 30 years of significant use around the world when used as per the instructions on the label. In fact, every science based regulator around the world, including Australia's own APVMA, has approved glyphosate use as safe for humans, animals and the environment when used according to the instructions on the label.</para>
<para>There are over 800 scientific studies on the use of glyphosate. I cannot prove this, but I'm fairly certain it's safe to say that no other agricultural chemical has faced the kind of scrutiny and the kind of scientific assessment that glyphosate has faced and been found to be a safe and effective chemical. The US Agricultural Health Study analysed data from 90,000 farmers. I think we'd all agree that that's a fairly good sample size. It found no link between glyphosate use and the incidence of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, regardless of exposure levels. Whilst glyphosate is typically not applied to food crops—for the obvious reason that you don't want to kill the crop if you're going to use it for food production—it is actually safe to do so. In May 2016, the Joint Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and World Health Organization Meeting on Pesticide Residues concluded:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… glyphosate is unlikely to pose a carcinogenic risk to humans from exposure through the diet.</para></quote>
<para>And a scientific adviser to Cancer Council Australia stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… residues in food are so low for all chemicals and glyphosate too, that there is no cancer risk.</para></quote>
<para>There is a report that is often cited, particularly by those who are opposed to the use of glyphosate, by the International Agency for Research on Cancer, which is linked to the World Health Organization and which did list glyphosate as a probable carcinogen, along with many other things. I know that this list has been read into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> many times and has been in the public domain many times, but it's worth citing it again. Glyphosate is there alongside things like alcohol, red meat, hot beverages, fried food and hairdressing. The lead author of the IARC report also acknowledged that he did not take into account a subsequent literature analysis of all the scientific evidence, which said that glyphosate was safe, and that if he had taken that particular literature review into account the outcome of the listing probably would have been different. This report has been looked at by Australia's own regulator, the APVMA, who concluded:</para>
<quote><para class="block">exposure to glyphosate does not pose a carcinogenic or genotoxic risk to humans</para></quote>
<para>…   …   …   </para>
<quote><para class="block">there are no scientific grounds for placing glyphosate and products containing glyphosate under formal reconsideration</para></quote>
<para>The IARC report has also been assessed by Health Canada, the United States Environmental Protection Agency and New Zealand's Environmental Protection Authority. All of them have found glyphosate to be safe where it continues to be used. Whilst the IARC is a World Health Organization program, there are in fact three other World Health Organization programs on the record stating that glyphosate does not pose a human health or cancer risk. They are the International Programme on Chemical Safety, the Core Assessment Group on Pesticide Residues and the World Health Organization's Guidelines for Drinking-water Quality.</para>
<para>Obviously, if we ban a chemical or move to restrict a chemical as important as Roundup, there will be flow-on effects. I've already talked about the impact of reducing the amount of minimum-till farming in Australia and the negative environmental consequences that would have. There would also have to be substitutions, and those substitutions would almost inevitably have to be chemicals that are less safe and less effective. There is a fallacy floating around that naturally occurring herbicides or pesticides are in some way safer; they are not. In fact, glyphosate is one of the safer chemicals you can use.</para>
<para>Australian farmers are export dependent. We don't have highly protected domestic agriculture markets like Europe, the US and Canada. We need to export our product right around the world and, to do so, we need to be as effective and as efficient as we can be in growing the produce that the world needs. Part of the way to do that is by accessing modern technology, and one of the key tools we have in doing so is glyphosate. I'm sure this will come up again, as the matter has been referred to the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The situation for refugee children on Nauru and Manus Island is now critical. Reports this morning that the chief medical officer on Nauru is being deported demonstrates just how dire things have gotten. For humanity's sake, we do need to come together to get these children out of detention so that they can get the medical care that they need. On top of that, the government needs to accept New Zealand's ongoing and generous offer of resettlement. Over the weekend, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, the UNHCR, urged the Morrison government to take immediate action to address a collapsing health situation for refugees and asylum seekers in PNG and Nauru.</para>
<para>On Monday, the Prime Minister received a letter signed by nearly 6,000 Australian doctors, demanding the removal of sick children in detention from Nauru. AMA paediatric representative Dr Paul Bauert, who has treated patients on Nauru, described the situation as unconscionable and something that could have so easily been avoided. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This is the only situation I’ve come across where it is deliberate government policy which is causing the pain and suffering of these children.</para></quote>
<para>If the Morrison government won't listen to these voices and take immediate action to ensure the 77 children and their families on Nauru receive adequate primary and mental health care, then the parliament must act. With 78 cases of attempted suicide and self-harm on Nauru within the past year alone, and 12 people dead since 2014, the situation in offshore detention is truly disastrous.</para>
<para>Yesterday I met with Thomas Albrecht, Regional Representative of the UNHCR. As part of his duties, he travels regularly to Manus Island and Nauru. He described to me how, on his last visit to Nauru, he was so distraught to witness little girls lying catatonic in the dark.</para>
<para>These are children—children who, with their families, sought our protection. Under international law, we have a duty of care to provide that protection. But instead this government has failed these children for five years of their lives now, leaving them psychologically damaged and severely traumatised. It should never have come to this. As each day goes by, the situation seriously worsens for these children. What few services they once received are now slowly being taken away. Doctors from Medecins Sans Frontieres were ejected from Nauru last week. Now, with reports of the government's appointed chief medical officer on Nauru being deported this afternoon, the sense of urgency is even greater.</para>
<para>Reflecting the longstanding poor healthcare situation under this government, last month more asylum seekers had to be medically evacuated from Nauru than in the previous two years combined. If a medical practitioner recommends the transfer of a vulnerable child requiring treatment, it should not require a legal challenge to compel this government to meet its obligations. Labor remains deeply concerned about these events. While we welcome the Prime Minister's—sudden and unexplained—interest in the New Zealand resettlement offer, more must be done for the rights of the child. That is why Labor is committed to establishing an independent children's advocate to ensure the rights of children in immigration are protected.</para>
<para>Labor is currently in the process of drafting legislation to bring sick refugee children to Australia for treatment. I understand a number of crossbench senators in the other place have also given notice of a bill, and now even some government members are finally speaking out. But this has all gone on for far too long. There is no-one in this place, surely, that can deny that. We in this parliament must work together to end this trauma being inflicted on these children.</para>
<para>It is time for all of us to take urgent action to ensure that no child suffers in detention for one minute longer, and that no refugee child goes without the medical care that they need. I think when we've got the voices of some 6,000 medical professionals in Australia calling on this parliament to act, and calling on this government to do what it is elected to do: to stand up and ensure that the lives of these children are protected—children that sought our protection in the first place—then we cannot just sit here and do nothing. We must act. No matter the different ways we can get to the same conclusion, I think we all know that the solution is that we bring the children out of the misery that they currently find themselves in—in needing that urgent medical care—and that is the best outcome. The sooner that this parliament resolves this issue, the better, not just for those children but for humanity's sake, and for our nation's sake, because everyone is watching. They're watching the fact that—in this government's name, and in this country's name—we are leaving these vulnerable children in a terrible and perilous situation; terrible in the sense that I hope nothing happens that might result in the end of their lives.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>39</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Embassy: Israel</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Senator Payne. In a story in this morning's <inline font-style="italic">The Australian</inline> entitled 'Morrison risks Jakarta's ire on Israel', it's revealed that the government is understood to have fast-tracked the decision to change longstanding bipartisan foreign policy, including the location of Australia's embassy in Israel. When was the decision made to announce that Australia was considering moving its embassy to Israel? Was it a decision of cabinet? If not, who made the decision?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Moore for her question. The decision was a decision of the government, as was indicated by the Prime Minister and by me yesterday. The decision was discussed at the appropriate levels of the government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Moore, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I didn't get the answer to whether it went to cabinet or not, but I have further questions to ask, so I'll put them together. The report reveals that the frantic pace of the decision left:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… little time to inform affected countries and sparking an angry reaction from foreign diplomats in Canberra who are usually informed of major foreign policy changes weeks in advance.</para></quote>
<para>What representations has the Australian government received from other nations in response to its decision to change longstanding bipartisan foreign policy? Again, Minister, did this decision go to cabinet?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've indicated to the chamber that the matter was considered at the appropriate levels of government. In response to other aspects of Senator Moore's question, I can indicate to the chamber that we are always engaging with our international counterparts on key matters of policy. I also need to correct Senator Moore's assertion that the government has changed a policy. The Prime Minister and I have very clearly stated that the issues that are of concern are matters which have been raised in public discourse in Australia. The Prime Minister has indicated that he wants to look at the matters which have been raised in that discourse, including the location of the Australian embassy and whether the JCPOA is delivering outcomes and is as effective as it is intended to be. They are legitimate matters for a government to consider, and this government takes its responsibilities very seriously. The difference between— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Moore, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOORE</name>
    <name.id>00AOQ</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday in question time, Prime Minister Morrison said he had been 'in direct contact with President Widodo'. Can the minister confirm today's reports that the Prime Minister told the President of Indonesia of his decision to overturn 70 years of bipartisan foreign policy via a text message? Again, Minister, do appropriate levels of government include cabinet?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am not going to comment on the details of the Prime Minister's exchanges with his international counterparts in that way. What I will say is that consultation has been engaged in between Australia and a number of other international parties, of course. Again, Senator Moore misrepresents the position by asserting a complete change in policy. What the Prime Minister has indicated he wants to do is have a discussion to examine these extremely important issues of international policy. Those opposite seem incapable of participating in a discussion like that—incapable! They are only focused on process. They have no interest in Australia's foreign policy positions whatsoever, based on the sorts of questions that they've been asking. I would remind them that there are those opposite who have also canvassed these same issues, including Mr Danby, in May of this year, who suggested that it may be appropriate to look at the location of the embassy. So some, perhaps, are open to a discussion but, clearly, not all. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Small Business</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Small and Family Business, Skills and Vocational Education, Senator Cash. I refer to the minister's answer yesterday about the government's commitment to small and family business. Can the minister provide me with any feedback she has received from businesses, particularly from my home state of Queensland?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Stoker for the question. I had the opportunity last week to spend a lot of time in Queensland, including visiting, with Senator Stoker, a number of small businesses. We were delighted to be able to continue to tell them that those of us on our side of the chamber are backing them every step of the way and will be delivering for them a 25 per cent tax rate that they will pay five years earlier than they expected. When you ask how we can do that, it's called good economic management. Senator Stoker and I had an opportunity to talk to a number of small and family businesses whilst I was there. I got to visit a variety of sectors whilst I was in Queensland, including a fantastic franchise of Beaurepaires in Beenleigh; Living Silk in Paddington, with the member there, Trevor Evans; Honey I Scratched the Car, in Redcliffe; and the Empire Hotel in Rockhampton. I was there with our great candidate for Capricornia, Michelle Landry. I also had a fabulous opportunity to learn what it is like to be a zookeeper, of course going with Andrew Wallace to that great Australian icon in Queensland on the Sunshine Coast, Australia Zoo.</para>
<para>We were able to talk to these people about the policies they need their government to put in place. Certainly when it comes to tax, they were the first to put their hands up and say: 'We will benefit from these tax cuts being brought forward by five years. We'll have more money that we generate in our back pocket. And what are we going to do with that? We're going to reinvest back into our businesses. We're going to ensure that we reinvest this back.' They understand that when they reinvest the money back into their businesses they are able to prosper and grow. When a small or family business prospers and grows, they are able to create more jobs, in this case for Queenslanders.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stoker, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise the Senate about other government measures designed to benefit small and family business?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, I can. Senators would be aware that in the budget this year we extended the $20,000 instant asset write-off for another 12 months—again, because we understand that businesses are able to utilise this policy to reinvest back into their businesses. In particular, again, I was able to again visit Beaurepaires in Beenleigh, with the fantastic member Bert van Manen. It is a great family business. We met with Kerry and Ronnie Visser. They bought their business three years ago and have worked so hard that they are now the No. 1 franchise in Australia. They have utilised the government's instant asset write-off. They have invested in technology that compresses air in a much more user-friendly manner. Because of the instant asset write-off, they have been able to utilise this to reduce their energy bills, which is a bonus to their business. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Stoker, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STOKER</name>
    <name.id>237920</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Is the minister aware of any risks to the government's strong commitment to small and family business?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The answer is yes, and obviously it is a Shorten-led Labor government. They are a monumental risk to the millions and millions of small and family businesses across Australia. This is the Leader of the Opposition who, as recently as June of this year, had a policy that he was taking to the election that was to increase the amount of tax that small and family businesses pay in Australia. That was the policy they were taking to the election. Why? Because Mr Shorten and Labor don't understand small and family business. They don't understand that a business that has to close employs no-one. That's not good for the employer and it is certainly not good for the employees who no longer have jobs. Those of us on this side of the chamber will back small and family business every step of the way, and we will continue to put in place the policies to ensure that they're able to prosper and grow and create more jobs for Australians. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>40</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>40</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence, Senator Payne. Yesterday the ASC informed its workforce that a further 56 blue-collar jobs will be lost to the shipyard at Osborne, bringing the number of workers sacked this year to 372. Just this month, Prime Minister Morrison boasted, 'Our defence industry plan is delivering.' How is the defence industry plan delivering for the 372 workers and their families who have lost their jobs since Christmas last?</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting —</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I call Senator Payne, I asked repeatedly for silence during questions. That applies on my right as well as on my left. The Minister representing the Minister for Defence, Senator Payne.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Carr for his question. Most certainly, the issue of job losses in any industry, in any business, is always a matter of concern to government and to industry as well. The workers at ASC have been doing a significantly important job, particularly in the construction of the air warfare destroyers and the delivery of those vessels. They have been doing that job based on the last orders which were placed for vessels into the ASC shipyard which, of course, were placed by a coalition government.</para>
<para>In the six years in which those opposite were in the position of government in this country, they did not commission one single naval vessel. This government is commissioning 54 naval vessels from shipyards in Australia, focused on South Australia—the shipyard to which Senator Carr referred—and Western Australia. If that had not been done, then perhaps Senator Carr could take issue with this government's approach to policy in this matter. However, his approach and the approach of the government of which he was a member—he was the minister for industry, if I recall correctly—was that no work was done in this area whatsoever. In fact, it is known appropriately as Labor's valley of death. It was directed by them; it was authored by them; it was written by them. This government has turned it around, this government has turned around Australia's naval capability and this government will deliver.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>If the government has turned it around, why are you still laying people off? Given the government's continued failure to meet its own targets in the Naval Shipbuilding Plan, will the minister now ensure that the ASC draws down the $30 million it was awarded last December to create training scholarships in order to retrain those highly skilled workers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would have hoped during the period of time in which Senator Carr held responsible for an industry portfolio that he understood the process that is required for naval shipbuilding, but, no. I actually know why he doesn't understand it. It's because they had no experience at it whatever.</para>
<para>Let me tell you what this government has done to support jobs in a number of ways that go beyond the investment that I've already talked about. We have a targeted retention strategy, which is creating up to 200 positions within ASC submarines for current shipbuilders working on the Air Warfare Destroyer Program, including up to 100 workers supporting the Future Submarine program office and filling vacant positions in the Collins class sustainment office and up to 100 scholarships to workers to support opportunities to upskill in roles in operations management, computer aided design, engineering—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This is on relevance. The question goes to the issue of whether the government will draw down on the money. The minister hasn't gone near that question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was the second part of the question. I think the minister's being directly relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I can also confirm with pleasure that two offshore patrol vessels will be built by ASC shipbuilding, with production starting in the fourth quarter of 2018, directly employing up to 400 workers at Osborne and 600— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Carr, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given the claims that are being made regarding the building of the two offshore patrol vessels at Osborne and the claims being made that it will ensure the continuity of work until the commencement of the Hunter frigate projects, I'm wondering whether or not you can assure the Senate that Minister Pyne has actually been honest in his public pronouncements to workers at Osborne, or is this just another example that, when it comes to shipbuilding jobs, this minister and this government can't be trusted?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's an interesting proposition to be put by those opposite, who did not commission a single naval vessel in their entire time in government—not one! Not only did they leave the Royal Australian Navy exposed in terms of capability but they left the workforce completely exposed. They created the valley of death, and they are its authors.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>DISTINGUISHED VISITORS</type>
      </debateinfo></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>41</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Home Affairs. Minister, I refer you to the ongoing humanitarian calamity your government has created and overseen on Nauru by running a systemic regime of torture and child abuse. Can you confirm that Australia's senior IHMS medical officer on Nauru, Dr Nicole Montana, has been arrested overnight, issued with a deportation notice and has been deported—or very shortly is likely to be—from Nauru? This is after Medecins Sans Frontieres were booted off the island last week and after more than 5,500 doctors have demanded that the children you are torturing on Nauru and their families be brought to Australia for urgent medical treatment. Minister, why was Dr Montana deported and what are you doing about it?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator O'Sullivan on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'Sullivan</name>
    <name.id>247871</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've raised this once before: this assertion, directed at personalities and us collectively, that we're torturing children has just got to be unparliamentary and I believe that the senator ought to withdraw it.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, Senator McKim?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was very clear not to accuse any individual senator in this place of engaging in child abuse. What I said, very clearly, is that the government is running a systemic regime of torture and child abuse—and I respectfully put it to you that that is not out of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order raised by Senator O'Sullivan, there is no use of unparliamentary language or reflection upon another senator because it was not directed at another senator. However, Senator McKim, I urge you to read standing order 73. I have had discussions with party leaders about standing order 73 and its particular restriction that says questions shall not contain arguments, inferences, imputations, epithets or ironical expressions, among others things. That question, in my view, does not comply with standing order 73. I will, as I have said before, invite the minister to answer the parts of that question which were in order—and there were parts of that question that were in order. But I have warned senators that I will start applying standing order 73.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm assuming that, because we're on broadcast today, Senator McKim decided he would trump Senator Whish-Wilson and ask a question similar to that which he asked yesterday. But I completely dismiss the assertions that Senator McKim has made in relation to the situation on Nauru. I am aware of media reporting about the matter of an International Health and Medical Services senior medical officer departing Nauru on 17 October 2018. This is, of course, a matter for the government of Nauru. I am advised that there has been no impact to the continuity of care for transferees and refugees on Nauru and that another senior medical officer remains on the island. I am also advised that there are 65 health professionals contracted by the Australian government to provide health services on Nauru, including 33 mental health professionals. These services are available seven days a week and after hours. Colleagues may be interested to know that this equates to a ratio of one medical professional for every 11 transferees on the island.</para>
<para>Again, though, Senator McKim does need to be reminded of why this situation has occurred. And, yet again, Senator McKim, as we move towards the election, there is a very clear choice between those of us in the coalition government, who will always ensure that Australia's borders are secure, and those in the Australian Greens and the Australian Labor Party, who the minute they get into office, if they are elected, would ensure that the calamity and chaos that occurred under the previous Rudd-Gillard Labor government will occur yet again. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the Department of Home Affairs says that there'll be no impact on the continuity of care for refugees as a result of Dr Montana's deportation, and you've actually repeated those words today. Can you confirm, however, that the reality is that this is a lie and that numerous appointments with Dr Montana for today have been cancelled and no replacement appointments offered? Is the Department of Home Affairs lying to Australians yet again, as they did after the Good Friday shooting on Manus Island?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, I completely reject the premise of your question. Those of us on this side of the chamber are very proud of the work that our Department of Home Affairs does in keeping our borders secure. Again, though, Senator McKim does need to be reminded of exactly why—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, thank you, Mr President. The point of order is on the basis of relevance. I understand that the minister has said the words that she rejects the premise of the question. I do understand that. The issue, though, Mr President, is that I have directly put to the minister that the information she just gave to the parliament in her previous answer is inaccurate. I use the word 'lie' in relation to what the Department of Home Affairs has said. It's the same as the minister has said. So could you please direct the minister to answer the question and to be clear about whether her rejection of the premise is actually a rejection of that assertion.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senators know I cannot direct a minister how to answer a question, as long as they are being directly relevant to the subject matter of the question. The minister is being directly relevant.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, then, for the record, I am advised that there has been no impact on the continuity of care for transferees and refugees on Nauru and that another senior medical officer remains on the island. I will also reiterate for the record that I'm advised that there are 65 health professionals contracted by the Australian government to provide health services on Nauru, including 33 mental health professionals. Again, these services are available seven days a weeks and after hours. Again, Senator McKim, this equates to a ratio of one medical professional for every 11 transferees on the island.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, you've twice now claimed that Dr Montana's deportation has not impacted on the continuity of care for refugees on Nauru in any way. Can you please commit that you will seek further advice on this and remit to the Senate the response from the department specifically to my assertion, which I believe to be fact, that appointments have been cancelled today and no alternative appointments offered? <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, Senator McKim, you've even stated yourself that you have made assertions—nothing more and nothing less. I again reiterate that I have been advised—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>This was an incredibly specific question, Mr President. My point of order is on relevance. This was a specific question about whether the minister would seek further advice in regard to whether or not appointments with Dr Montana on Nauru have been cancelled and no alternative appointments made.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, that was the second part of the question you asked. I remind senators that you made a statement before that, Senator McKim, and the minister is entitled to address the statement you made before you had that question about what the minister had previously asserted. I cannot direct the minister how to answer a question as long as the minister is being directly relevant—and, in this case, I believe the minister is.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Again, perhaps Senator McKim needs to understand exactly why we are in the situation of even having people on Nauru and Manus Island. Again, that is because of the policies that Senator McKim and those in the Australian Greens would delight in implementing if ever they are able to join with a Labor government and do so. Senator McKim, it is a reality that, because of the policies that your party supported, 50,000 people arrived here on in excess of 800 boats. Senator McKim, it is a fact that, because of the policies the Australian Greens supported, there were 1,200—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator McKim, on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It is on direct relevance. The minister is not being, and has never been in this answer, directly relevant to the question I asked. I ask you to remind her of the question, please.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll ignore your observation on my first ruling, but I remind the minister that this question related to the previous two questions about healthcare services. I remind the minister of the terms of the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CASH</name>
    <name.id>I0M</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was saying, that we even have to have a conversation about Nauru or Manus Island is only because of the policies that the Australian Greens support. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKim</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That was one of the most pathetic things you've done, and that is really saying something.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Taxation</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp> (New South Wales—Nationals Whip in the Senate) (14:25):</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When Senator McKim has finished, I will continue. My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Development, Senator McKenzie. Can the minister update the Senate on how small and medium sized businesses in regional Australia will benefit from the tax relief provided by the Liberal-National government?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Liberal-National government is absolutely focused on delivering on our plan for a stronger economy. We know that a stronger economy relies on a stronger regional Australia. The government believes that lower taxes will benefit everyone. After all, it's not our money; it's theirs. We value reward for effort and getting in and having a go. That's why our new lower tax legislation will benefit small and medium businesses in regional Australia so they can grow their businesses and create more jobs faster in local towns and cities. With small businesses making up 82 per cent of the agriculture, forestry and fishing industries, and family farms being the most widespread form of business in the rural sector, tax relief has never been more important for our regional economies. Regional businesses with a turnover below $50 million will face a tax rate of 25 per cent in 2021, six years earlier.</para>
<para>In the state of New South Wales, Senator Williams, 36 per cent of small businesses are located outside the major metropolitan centres of Newcastle, Sydney and Wollongong, employing millions of your fellow New South Welshmen. They will benefit. In your home town of Inverell our tax cuts will help everyone from the local newsagents in Otho Street to the larger employers such as Boss Engineering, who employ 116 people. In a town of 12,000, that makes a significant difference. When we spoke to Boss Engineering and asked what the tax cuts would mean to them, they said: 'It means we can be more competitive. A tax cut of this nature will allow us to compete with imported products and means we can look at pricing to get an even bigger market share. Importantly it means we can employ more locals.' With more than three million small businesses in Australia meeting the threshold, tax relief is a direct shot in the arm that will result in more jobs and improve productivity. The Liberal-National government believe reducing taxes will mean we have the right conditions to employ more locals.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that good news and I ask: how will families living in regional Australia benefit from the government's tax agenda?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>That's the one thing I want to stress today—that lower taxes aren't just an end unto themselves; lower taxes support more investment, higher productivity, more jobs and better wages in regional Australia. For our trade exposed industries such as agriculture and mining it means we can compete with the USA and the UK in global markets. The Liberal-National tax relief will allow regional businesses to reinvest their savings into their businesses or staff or to manage cash flow. Because we believe in and support small businesses, this government has already extended our very popular $20,000 instant asset write-off that was first introduced in 2015-16. We have cut nearly $5 billion in red tape. We've simplified the BAS, something I can remember my mum as a small-business owner spending a lot of time and money completing. We've protected small business from unfair contract terms and, importantly, we've instigated an effects test.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister and I ask: are there any threats to economic growth in the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's a good question. I think there is. It's called an elected Labor government. Labor claims to be the friends of small business, yet its policies will hit them hard with more taxes. In fact Bill Shorten's five-point plan is simply two words: more tax, more tax, more tax, more tax and more tax. Under Labor, you will actually legislate to increase the tax rate from 25 per cent to 27.5 per cent for these small and medium businesses after your backflip. Companies with up to $50 million are not the big end of town. They are hardworking Australians employing millions of people right across regional Australia. You will slug Australians with this tax, which will mean that they won't be able to employ more people locally, as Boss Engineering does. You don't understand that the tax paid by hardworking Australians is actually their money. The choice is clear. Only the Liberal-National government believes in reducing taxes and taking the pressure off small business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence Procurement</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Defence Industry, Senator Payne, and relates to ASC's role in the naval shipbuilding program. The government has offshored two supply ships to Spanish shipyards. It has offshored one icebreaker to a Romanian shipyard. It has prohibited ASC from tendering in the Future Frigate program. I have a letter here from Minister Payne to Naval Group suggesting that they didn't need to engage ASC in the Future Submarine build. You can see that it is no wonder ASC are laying off South Australian workers, because they have no work on their order book other than the OPV. Can the minister please tell the chamber what role ASC will have in the build of the Future Submarine, or is the government engaging in a deliberate ASC euthanasia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Patrick for his question, which echoes, or shadows perhaps, some of the matters raised by Senator Carr in his earlier question. Senator Patrick raised the location of the build of the two supply ships in his question and related that to his remarks around the offshore patrol vessels, as I understood that question. Just in relation to that matter, it is a matter of record that for the supply ships to have been built in Australia and to still allow for the build of the offshore patrol vessels and the Future Frigates—and it will come as no surprise to anyone who has been following this—that order would have to have been placed by the previous government to ensure that the shipyards were able to take the supply ship build plus the OPV build plus the Future Frigate build. As Senator Patrick is painfully aware, no orders for any ships were placed by the previous government—not one single naval ship in this country. So, in that regard, the government did prioritise the development of the offshore patrol vessels and the development of the Future Frigates. And to ensure that we did not have a capability gap in terms of the supply ships, we are procuring those through the processes to which Senator Patrick has referred.</para>
<para>Senator Patrick also asked about the ASC and its status from the government's perspective. I said in response to Senator Carr that, of course, the first two of the offshore patrol vessels will be built at Osborne by ASC Shipbuilding—and that is also a matter of record. As Senator Patrick also notes, the next generation of frigates, the Hunter class frigates, will be built by ASC Shipbuilding at the Osborne naval shipyard. This is a $35 billion program. It will create 4,000 jobs right around the country and create unprecedented opportunities for businesses large and small.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, earlier this year, I revealed the closely held secret that the Navy is planning to shift submarine full-cycle dockings to Western Australia. I don't assert that that is the government's position; it's the Navy's position. The government has said that no decision has been made on this. Noting that it has also been revealed that we will have the Future Submarines in both Western Australia and on the east coast, will the minister explicitly rule out shifting full-cycle dockings to Western Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Minister for Defence advises me—although I note that Senator Patrick asked me in relation to my representation of the Minister for Defence Industry—that there are no plans to move full-cycle docking. The Osborne north facility will continue to support Collins class sustainment for some time to come. Planning will be required to ensure that this activity can continue without detriment while the submarine infrastructure construction is underway. By the mid 2020s—and it is very important to note this—there will be submarines in full production at Osborne, employing 2,800 people directly, and frigates in full production at Osborne, employing around 1,500 people directly. So it is completely reasonable for the Department of Defence—Navy in this case that Senator Patrick has referred to—to make contingency plans and review those in terms of managing full cycle docking, which employs around 700 maintenance workers. That is very important work and needs to be managed accordingly.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Patrick, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, I have FOI documents that have Defence email addresses on them that reveal that there are more ASC redundancies. Unfortunately the numbers are redacted, so we can't see what they are. Why won't the government level with workers at ASC and simply let them know what the future workforce plan is for these workers at ASC?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Senator Patrick well knows, staffing decisions are a matter for the ASC board and management. As I have said very clearly to this chamber on multiple occasions, job losses at ASC and elsewhere in the shipbuilding industry—which are regrettable, and I placed on record in the chamber earlier today that it is the case in any industry, in any organisation—are not a result of this government's policies; they are the direct result of an abrogation of responsibility by the previous government in not commissioning a single naval vessel in this country in their entire term of government. So, while continuous naval shipbuilding will create thousands of jobs—and I've outlined those numbers—for decades to come, there is a period of transition as our current shipbuilding workforce redeploys to new opportunities being created across our defence industrial base. That defence industrial base is at its strongest in Adelaide and Perth. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Film Industry</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Communications and the Arts, Senator Fifield. Can the minister update the Senate on the implementation of the new location incentive program?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I can advise colleagues that the government recently launched a new program to attract international productions to Australia, called the location incentive. The purpose of this investment is to sustain Australian jobs in the film production sector and supporting industries through a competitive incentive program to ensure that there's a steady pipeline of international production. These productions will support the direct employment of over 3,000 Australian cast and crew and use the services of around 6,000 Australian businesses each year. The program was announced as part of the budget and opened for applications on 7 August. It is a competitive grant program that seeks the best deals for Australia. I'm pleased to acknowledge that it was welcomed by the opposition at the time of the budget.</para>
<para>Successful applicants need to demonstrate contributions to the broader economy. I'm very pleased that the government has announced the awarding of the two grants under the new location incentive program to attract international feature films to Australia. The government is committing $16 million in additional funding to secure two new productions for Australia: <inline font-style="italic">Godzilla vs. Kong</inline>, which is a feature film by Legendary Entertainment, and <inline font-style="italic">Reef Break</inline>, a 13-episode series by Disney/ABC International Television. This support will generate hundreds of jobs for the screen industry supply chain and bring investment of more than $100 million to the Australian economy. This is a very practical way that we are supporting small business in Australia, and we're able to this only because of good budget management. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that answer. Could the minister outline how this program helps the local screen industry?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We've effectively got the existing 16½ per cent location offset tax rebate to the equivalent of 30 per cent through the addition of the location incentive. This makes Australia internationally competitive. What this is all about is jobs. We have the best film industry in the world. We've got great screenwriters, terrific producers, great directors, a great cast and crew, and fantastic carpenters and electricians, not to mention the businesses that support these endeavours. Collectively, they help to produce a product that's world class. What this means is continuity for those who are contracted as part of the screen business and continuity of work for those small businesses who rely on the pipeline of films going through the studios. It is good news.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Duniam, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DUNIAM</name>
    <name.id>263418</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Finally, what are the broader benefits to the Australian economy of this support for the screen industry?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What small businesses are doing all around the country is making our economy stronger and what we're doing as a government is backing in those small and medium sized businesses. We want their taxes to be lowered; we are lowering their taxes. In a very practical sense, that's what the location incentive is. These two productions will use the services of over 1,600 Australian businesses, as well as directly employing more than 1,300 Australians. There are also 5,500 room nights in commercial accommodation in just one of the productions alone. We've got our great landscape, which will encourage tourism, and our talented industry, which is something that those who produce these works overseas are very keen to avail themselves of.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Goods and Services Tax</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the and the Minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Cormann. The government has announced that it will provide more taxpayers' funds to the states via the GST fund. The government has not taken the advice of the Liberal Democrats to stop all transfers from the Commonwealth to the states, which would help fund massive income tax cuts, prompt the states to manage their spending and make each level of government accountable for its own actions. Can the government confirm that its $9 billion announcement this week will cost each and every Australian $360 of extra tax or extra debt? Will the government admit that there is no longer any semblance of a link between GST revenue raised and the amount of money shovelled to the states, proving that federal financial relations are a shambles?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I can confirm that the plan which the Prime Minister, as the Treasurer, put together to ensure that Western Australia receives a fairer share of the GST, in a way that leaves every other state better off, will soon be introduced into the parliament so that it can be legislated. By all accounts, reading the latest statements of various members of this parliament, it looks as if there might well be a consensus for that legislation to be passed through the parliament, which will be great news for Western Australia, great news for every single state across Australia and great news for our country.</para>
<para>Does it involve a level of additional federal expenditure to ensure that we can facilitate this arrangement—this way forward, this important reform—in a way that leaves every state better off? Yes, it does. As part of the overall GST pool, it's a very small proportion, but it is a sufficient proportion for us to be able to genuinely provide reassurance to all states and territories that they will be better off and not worse off as a result of dealing with this important issue, which has been in the too-hard basket for way too long. I would say that, under our government, we have a demonstrated commitment to lower taxes. It is not that long ago that this parliament agreed to our plan to reduce personal income taxes by $144 billion over the next decade. That is great news for hardworking Australians and gives them the right incentives and encouragement to work harder, which will help drive stronger economic growth and increase prosperity into the future. We have already legislated lower taxes for small and medium sized businesses and we are about to legislate a faster reduction in business taxes, down to 25 per cent, for small and medium sized businesses.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Leyonhjelm, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government has promised that the Western Australian government will receive at least 75c in the GST dollar. Why shouldn't it receive 100c in the dollar? Why should Western Australia continue funding beggar state governments in Tasmania and South Australia, which spend more time hugging trees and wind turbines—</para>
<para>Honourable senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, can I have a little more time to finish?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! I'm counting, Senator Leyonhjelm.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. Why should WA continue funding beggar state governments in Tasmania and South Australia which spend more time hugging trees and wind turbines than developing their states? What benefit does WA—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Leyonhjelm! I have added quite a bit of time to your question given the interjections. I will call the minister to answer the question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The people in the great state of Western Australia are very generous people. Being part of a federation, those of us who live in Western Australia do support the principle of horizontal fiscal equalisation. In Western Australia, people just want to see a fair share. It's long been the proposition—which is a bipartisan proposition in Western Australia—that there should be a floor of at least 75c in the dollar. Nobody has ever argued, on our side of politics—we certainly haven't been putting the proposition—that there shouldn't be a level of equalisation across our country to ensure that the quality and standard of services that can be provided to citizens wherever they live in Australia can be of a similar level. The problem was that horizontal fiscal equalisation got out of whack. The formula, in the way it has been operating, is broken, and we are proposing to fix it. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Leyonhjelm, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Isn't it a fact that, after five years of Liberal government, you are still attempting to buy votes by handing out other people's money? Doesn't it worry you when Labor and the beggar state governments agree with your efforts at redistribution? Shouldn't a Liberal government reduce the size of government rather than grow it to more gargantuan proportions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, we are reducing the size of government in the economy. When we came into government, we inherited a trajectory where government expenditure as a share of the economy was headed towards 26.5 per cent as a share of GDP and rising. Of course, we have been able to bring that down to below 25 per cent and falling. That is, of course, work that continues. We will always ensure that government is only as big as it needs to be—as small as possible but as large as it needs to be. We stand for lower taxes and smaller government. Indeed, the proof is in the pudding. We have been successful in legislating significant tax cuts both for hardworking families and for business, which will help to strengthen the economy, create more jobs and ensure that families around Australia have the best possible opportunity to get ahead. If you're concerned about taxes, you should be concerned about the Labor Party, because their plan, of course, is to increase taxes by $200 billion over the next decade, which will cost jobs and hurt families. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for the Environment</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I refer to reports just published online by Fairfax Media headlined '"For the Pacific it's always about cash": Environment Minister in diplomatic incident over climate change'. These reports indicate that last night, when the Minister for the Environment, Melissa Price, was told the former President of Kiribati was in Australia to deliver a message on climate change, the environment minister told the former President:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I know why you're here. It is for the cash. For the Pacific it's always about the cash. I have my chequebook here. How much do you want?</para></quote>
<para>Does the minister consider this to be an appropriate thing for a minister to say to the former President of one of Australia's Pacific neighbours?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I note that Senator Wong is referring to a media report that has been published, as I understand it, during the process of this question time, so obviously I have not had a chance to speak to the minister about it. However, I am advised that, as I understand it—and I acknowledge that Senator Dodson is here in the chamber—the minister has already contacted Senator Dodson to indicate that she strongly disagrees with his interpretation of the conversation and has also sought to contact the guest to ensure that there has been no misunderstanding and that no offence was taken. That is my understanding of the circumstances.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What steps will this minister take to ensure that Minister Price's uninformed, offensive comments do not cause further damage to Australia's relationship with our Pacific neighbours?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have indicated to the chamber that the minister has explicitly disagreed with the interpretation that was placed on the comments in the media story. Senator Wong, in raising a matter that I have not had an opportunity to check, has now repeated the assertion, and that may be the approach she chooses to take. But I also know that Senator Ruston has met today with the former President and reaffirmed our strong commitments to the Pacific in that conversation. She has advised him that her role—including also, of course, what I do as Minister for Foreign Affairs—is to work closely with our Pacific neighbours to build climate change resilience, to support them in adaptation, and we, of course, absolutely welcome the strong contribution of our neighbours across the Pacific, including the former President himself.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In 2015 Minister Dutton said about Pacific leaders, 'Time doesn't mean anything when you're about have water lapping at your door.' Is it any wonder that the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government has overseen a diminution of Australia's influence in the Pacific, when its ministers have underlying attitudes like these?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PAYNE</name>
    <name.id>M56</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para> (—) (): I completely disagree with the proposition that Senator Wong has put. In fact, the Pacific is a very significant focus for this government. It is a very significant focus for me. My first overseas visit as the Minister for Foreign Affairs was to Nauru to participate in the Pacific Islands Forum with Senator Ruston. My first bilateral visit as the Minister for Foreign Affairs was completed last week to Papua New Guinea, our extremely important Pacific neighbour and the host of APEC 2018. It was at the Pacific Islands Forum in 2016 that then Prime Minister Turnbull committed to a significant step-up in Australia's engagement in the region—because we recognise that stepping up is not an option; it's actually an imperative. The focus that we have on the ties that have been formed through the region, which are very longstanding, is across history, trade, education, employment, sport, migration and so many other things, and that is what the government are focused on— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Health, Senator Scullion. Can the minister advise how the Liberal-National government is ensuring that Australians have access to affordable life-saving medicines through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Brockman, for that important question. The PBS is a service that Australians can rely on. It brings into reach medicines that otherwise would be unaffordable for so many Australians.</para>
<para>Since coming to government in 2013, we have subsidised close to $10 billion worth of new medicines. We've added over 1,900 new and amended listings to the PBS, which equates to almost one medicine added to the PBS every single day. Because we brought the budget back under control and more Australians off the welfare side of the ledger onto the tax-paying side of the ledger—the best figures in 25 years—we can afford to put more into medicines on the PBS.</para>
<para>In the budget this year we are investing another $2.4 billion in new medicines. Our new $2.4 billion investment builds on other recent investments, including another $250 million to make four life-saving cancer medicines available to thousands of Australian patients. These are drugs that will make a profound difference to our fellow Australians who face the daily battle against cancer. It will support a thousand patients with a type of head and neck cancer, squamous cell carcinoma, who will benefit with the listing of Opdivo. Mr David Littlewood from Queensland said of this drug:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Immunotherapy was my last chance to tackle terminal cancer …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I was fortunate enough to be given that opportunity … as otherwise there was no chance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is a life-saving therapy. I would just be another number if it weren't for it …</para></quote>
<para>Two hundred and twenty patients suffering from subtypes of lymphoma cancer will benefit from the listing of Imbruvica, saving patients $134,000. More than 1,500 patients who are currently receiving chemotherapy for cancer treatment will benefit from Neulasta. One thousand, one hundred and twenty-five patients will benefit from not having to pay $18,000 a year with the listing of— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired).</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister, for that answer. How is the government's strong record of support for the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme benefitting people in my home state of Western Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you for that question. Recently, we have announced that we will make a medication for severe inflammatory spinal arthritis more affordable when we list it on the PBS, saving patients more than $15,000 a year. Almost 4,000 patients across the country who suffer from active non-radiographic axial spondyloarthritis will benefit when Simponi becomes available on the PBS on 1 December.</para>
<para>Last week, in your home state, Senator Brockman, the Minister for Health, Mr Hunt, met with Casey Brown, a Western Australian Football League footballer from Subiaco who has benefited from Simponi. Mr Brown, you will be happy to know, is now back up and running again, thanks to the listing of this drug. He told <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">West Australian</inline>:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"I was waking up real stiff and sore, and could barely get out of bed …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"I had an MRI and it came up with a heap of inflammation on my hip, in one of the joints."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"It was my first year at Subi, so it wasn't ideal. But I'm back running now, so I'm pretty much 100 per cent."</para></quote>
<para>Isn't that great news?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Minister; that is great news. Could the minister update the Senate on how the government's record investment in new medicines compares with the record of those opposite?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator. Unlike Labor, we are subsidising all drugs recommended by the independent medical experts. The last Labor government reversed the policy of the coalition to list all medicines approved by the independent PBAC. In fact, they deferred the listing of seven medicines. That was down to their financial mismanagement. They simply couldn't afford the services that Australians rely on. They deferred the listing of Symbicort. We have had a few questions about aged care. I can tell you people in aged care will be listening. Symbicort is for the treatment of severe asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. They deferred Fragmin to treat deep vein thrombosis, Synarel for the treatment for endometriosis and IVF, and Invega Sustenna for the treatment of schizophrenia. In Labor's own 2011-12 budget papers, the listing of some medicines would be deferred 'until fiscal circumstances permit'. The only time fiscal circumstances permitted was when we got to the Treasury bench! You simply can't trust those on the other side with your health services. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Religious Freedom Review</title>
          <page.no>49</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. On Monday, the minister told the Senate that the report of the Religious Freedom Review Expert Panel was 'received by cabinet in May'. On the same day, Prime Minister Morrison told the House of Representatives:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I first saw this report not long after I became Prime Minister …</para></quote>
<para>If the cabinet received the report in May, why did Prime Minister Morrison not see the report until at least five months later? Who is telling the truth—the minister or your Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a matter of public record that the report was received by the government in May. Senator Pratt, who was asking a question, verballed something that allegedly was written in a letter that I'd sent to the Senate purporting to quote something which wasn't a quote. I can again confirm that the government received the relevant report, which was commissioned by cabinet, in May, that the deliberative processes of cabinet have not been concluded, that the relevant minister—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Jacinta Collins interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The deliberative processes of government have started. As I indicated on Monday, the deliberative processes of cabinet don't just start with cabinet receiving final submissions with final recommendations in response to a particular report. The deliberative processes of cabinet actually start with relevant ministers preparing a submission to cabinet and, of course, this particular document is the key input into the cabinet deliberations on this topic. It was specifically commissioned for that purpose. It was received by government in May, as is a matter of public record, and the deliberative processes of cabinet have not yet been finalised. It continues to inform the deliberative processes of cabinet. It is subject to the deliberative processes of cabinet. So, in due course, this will go in front of the full cabinet for a decision and, in due course, the government will release the report, together with the response the government has adopted.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Which ministers received a copy of the report of the Religious Freedom Review Expert Panel before it was leaked on Wednesday, 10 October?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government received the report in May. In terms of the specifics of that question, to make sure it's 100 per cent accurate, I'll take that part of the question on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Farrell, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARRELL</name>
    <name.id>I0N</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Given that the leaking of the report of the religious freedom review panel is just the latest in a series of cabinet leaks since Prime Minister Morrison toppled former Prime Minister Turnbull, what steps will your Prime Minister take to identify the source of these leaks?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that question on notice. Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rearrangement</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) today, the matter of public importance proposed by the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate (Senator Wong) not be proceeded with and instead, at that time, the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018 be called on and considered for not longer than 1 hour and 30 minutes; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) on Thursday, 18 October 2018, consideration of general business from not later than 4.30 pm shall be as follows:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Ending the Poverty Trap) Bill 2018,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) from not later than 5 pm, the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) from not later than 6.30 pm, orders of the day relating to documents.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>50</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I shall move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) Anti-Poverty Week is from 14 to 20 October 2018,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) in Australia, which is ranked as the second wealthiest county in the world, there are currently 3 million people in Australia living in poverty, including 739,000 children,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) Australia has no poverty reduction plan, and despite economic growth, poverty levels have remained entrenched at a high level,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) Newstart and Youth Allowance have not had an increase in real terms since 1994, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) the poverty rate for sole parents rose from 35% in 2013 to 59% in 2015, and rates of poverty for sole parents remain high; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to abandon their punitive approach to social policy and the demonisation of those accessing the social safety, and make it a priority to address poverty in Australia by raising Newstart and Youth Allowance by $75 a week.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee, Community Affairs References Committee</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Reporting Date</title>
            <page.no>51</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator. There being none, I shall now proceed to the discovery of formal business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PRIVILEGE</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>PRIVILEGE</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BURSTON</name>
    <name.id>207807</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Standing Committee of Privileges for inquiry and report:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Having regard to the matters raised by Senator Burston in correspondence tabled by the President on 16 October 2018:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) whether, by removing him from positions within Pauline Hanson's One Nation Party and pressing him to resign from the Senate, Senator Hanson or any other person has sought to improperly interfere with the free performance of his duties as a senator or to penalise him for his conduct as a senator; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) if so, whether any contempt was committed in that regard.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Acknowledging the statement made by you, Mr President, in the chamber yesterday, the government supports the referral of this matter to the Privileges Committee. Supporting the referral of this matter to the Privileges Committee does not prejudice the matters which have been raised, which should be assessed and dealt with through the proper and appropriate process.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economics References Committee</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following matter be referred to the Economics References Committee for inquiry and report by 22 February 2019:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Credit and financial services targeted at Australians at risk of financial hardship, with particular reference to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the impact on individuals, communities, and the broader financial system of the operations of:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) payday lenders and consumer lease providers,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) unlicensed financial service providers including "buy now, pay later" providers and short-term credit providers, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) debt management firms, debt negotiators, credit repair agencies and personal budgeting services;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) whether current regulation of these service providers meets community standards and expectations and whether reform is needed to address harm being caused to consumers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the present capacity and capability of the financial counselling sector to provide financial counselling services to financially stressed and distressed members of the community; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) any other matters.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government recognises that small-amount credit lenders and consumer lease providers play an important role in the economy by providing credit to consumers who in many instances are unable to access mainstream forms of finance. The government has undertaken a review of the small-amount credit contract laws and is currently considering the review's recommendation. The government also notes the comments of Commissioner Hayne regarding the consumer credit industry in the interim report of the Royal Commission into Misconduct in the Banking, Superannuation and Financial Services Industry. The government would welcome any further scrutiny of the industry.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>52</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>World Osteoporosis Day</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Polley, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) 20 October is World Osteoporosis Day and aims to increase awareness of the prevention, diagnosis and treatment of osteoporosis,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) osteoporosis is a fragile bone disease that causes painful and debilitating fractures, particularly of the hip and spine,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) every year in Australia around 165 000 fractures occur, many of which could have been prevented with earlier diagnosis and treatment, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) Australia-wide, 4 million Australians over 50 have poor bone health;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) acknowledges that the cost of fractures associated with osteoporosis nationally amounted to $2 billion in 2017; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) recognises that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) early action can be taken through regular exercise, a bone-healthy diet and consultation with a doctor about osteoporosis risk factors,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) diagnosis and treatment of osteoporosis can halve the risk of fracture, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) effective preventative treatments include regular exercise, a bone healthy diet and consultation with doctors about risk factors.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day for the Eradication of Poverty</title>
          <page.no>52</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Moore, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that the United Nations declared 17 October as the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that this year marks the 70th anniversary of the proclamation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) the fundamental connection between extreme poverty and human rights, and that those living in poverty are disproportionately affected by rights violations;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) further notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the global commitment in pursuit of Sustainable Development Goal 1 to end poverty in all its forms everywhere, and to recognise the dignity of the individual in the principle of leaving no one behind, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that despite global poverty rates halving since 2000, one in ten people are still living below the international poverty line of US$1 a day; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) acknowledges:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that poverty is more than the lack of income and resources, its manifestations include hunger and malnutrition, limited access to education and other basic services, social discrimination and exclusion,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the struggle of people living in poverty, hears their concerns and recognises that poor people are at the forefront of the fight against inequality, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) that building a sustainable future requires us to intensify our efforts towards ensuring that everyone can exercise their human rights and to fulfil the needs and aspirations of everyone—not just the privileged few in this generation and those to come.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Australian government recognises the fundamental importance of addressing poverty. It is embedded in the purpose of our aid program to promote Australia's national interests by contributing to sustainable economic growth and poverty reduction. We recognise the strong link between human rights and poverty. Where human rights are not respected, there can be marginalisation and discrimination against people and populations. This is manifested in an inability to access fundamental necessities such as health, education and security of livelihoods. Deep and entrenched poverty is the result.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>53</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Broadcasting Corporation Amendment (Appointment of Directors) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>53</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1148" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Australian Broadcasting Corporation Amendment (Appointment of Directors) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>53</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Australian Broadcasting Corporation Act 1983, and for related purposes.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>53</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum, and I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">AUSTRALIAN BROADCASTING AMENDMENT (APPOINTMENT OF DIRECTORS) BILL 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Threats to the independence of the ABC are nothing new.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By my estimation, since the mid-1970s no fewer than four of the eleven ABC Board Chairs have had their terms cut short for failing to live up to the expectations of the government of the day — both coalition and Labor.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Three Managing Directors have met the same fate.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Some displeased the government of the day, some were not up to the job.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What unites them all is that they were subject to less than transparent processes which have cumulatively led to a loss of public confidence NOT in the independence of the ABC, but in its ability to withstand attacks on that independence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Now it has happened again despite the 2012 introduction of new measures for board appointments designed to ensure, as stated by the government of the day, "a transparent and democratic board appointment process that appoints non-executive directors on merit".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But in recent years, the intention and the spirit of this process have been ignored on at least three occasions, leading to public disquiet about the independence and integrity of the ABC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Three appointees to the ABC Board by this government were not recommended by the independent Nomination Panel; a fourth was highly rated by the Panel, but then withdrew from the process and was subsequently appointed by the Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">National Broadcasting Legislation Amendment Act 2012</inline> established an independent Nomination Panel designed to nominate appointments of non-executive directors to the boards of the ABC and SBS based "on merit".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to the Act the nominees were required to have had "experience in connection with the provision of broadcasting services or in communications or management"; "expertise in financial or technical matters"; or "cultural or other interests relevant to the oversight of a public organisation engaged in the provision of broadcasting".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But the Act also enabled the Prime Minister of the day to ignore Panel nominations as long as he or she tabled "the reasons for that appointment in each House of the Parliament no later than 15 sitting days ... after that appointment is made."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The intention was honourable, but it has turned out to be a substantial deficiency.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As Senator Nick Minchin, then Shadow Communications Minister, said in this place on November the 17th 2009 when the legislation was introduced:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"While the government is establishing a Nomination Panel for the appointment process, at the end of the day the scope remains for the minister and the Prime Minister to ignore Panel nominations and appoint whoever they like."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And so it has turned out to be, setting in train a course of events which once again sees the ABC with a Managing Director whose term has been cut short and a Chair whose actions have forced him to resign.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A bare majority of the current ABC Board was appointed as a result of recommendations from the independent Nomination Panel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Two of the current board were not nominated as qualified candidates by the Panel; one did not even apply.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendment I am proposing is designed to remedy this situation by returning to the spirit and intention of the legislation which set up the independent Nomination Panel and the process surrounding it.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is a modest proposal -- a multi-stage, graduated process designed to enhance independence, transparency, multi-partisanship and public confidence both in the appointment process and the future independence of the ABC.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">What it is NOT is an attempt to impose US Senate-style confirmation hearings on Australian democracy. The Bill is consistent with the principles of Westminster government: the ultimate appointment of a non-executive director remains the prerogative of the Governor-General on the recommendation of the Prime Minister or Minister.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill requires the Prime Minister in the case of the Chair of the ABC or the Minister in the case of the other non-executive directors to publish the name of their proposed appointee if they intend to ignore the recommendations of the independent Nomination at least 30 days before the appointment proceeds.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This strengthens the integrity of the Panel process and of its members.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It maintains the confidentiality of those candidates not recommended by the Panel and enhances the authority of Panel nominations by putting them in the public domain.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The confidentiality of the nomination process before the Panel's announcement minimises the likelihood of well-qualified individuals being deterred from putting their names forward.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It reduces the prospect that the efforts of the Panel will have been a waste of time as former Panel member and former coalition government minister Neil Brown has pointed out when his and other Panel members' nominations were ignored.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reasons must be published on the website of the Department of Communications and the Arts. The Opposition Leader must be informed in writing and invited to comment within a reasonable period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If the Opposition Leader informs the Prime Minister (in the case of the Chairman) or the Minister (in the case of other non-executive directors) in writing within the specified period that he or she does not agree with the appointment the Prime Minister must cause a statement of reasons, including an assessment of the appointee against the selection criteria set down for the independent Nomination Panel, to be tabled in both Houses of Parliament.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In that situation, the Prime Minister or the Minister, must not recommend the Governor-General make the appointment until after the end of the 90 day period beginning when the statement was tabled in the second of the Houses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This strengthens the current legislation which requires the Prime Minister consult the Opposition Leader only in the case of the appointment of the ABC Chair before recommending the appointment to the Governor-General.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Following tabling of the government's statement of reasons in both Houses of Parliament it would be open to the Senate to hold an inquiry into the nomination by the relevant committee.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is to be hoped that this new final step need never be taken; that the modest, measured and graduated steps I am proposing would be sufficient to encourage governments to accept the nominations of the independent Nomination Panel.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Should they not, the voters would see where responsibility for the consequences of the government's actions lie — with the government and no one else.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And that is where responsibility for the recent episode centring on the former Chair and former Managing Director of the ABC lies — with the government and no one else.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">They appointed Justin Milne; he headed the Board who appointed her. Neither process was sufficiently transparent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We now know that the Minister was informed of the breakdown in relations between the Board and Ms Guthrie on September 12th, 12 days before her dismissal became public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Minister denies that he has ever "in any way shape or form sought to involve himself in [ABC] staffing matters."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Clearly, Mr Milne saw it differently.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the report commissioned by the Minister from his Department Secretary Mr Milne does not deny that he wrote an email to Ms Guthrie about an article by ABC Chief Economics Correspondent Emma Alberici.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">That email stated that "they [the government] hate her."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"We are tarred with her brush. I think it's simple. Get rid of her. We need to save the ABC ¬not Emma. There is no guarantee they [the Coalition] will lose the next election."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to the report of the Secretary of the Department of Communications and the Arts, the former ABC Chair acknowledges that a conversation with Ms Guthrie about ABC Political Editor Andrew Probyn "was around what to do with him".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Milne does not recall, but does not deny having used the term "to shoot him" in reference to Mr Probyn in that conversation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to the report, Mr Milne "does not consider that either communication was a direction to the MD."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It does not matter what he thinks. What is significant is what Ms Guthrie thought was the import of Mr Milne's communications with her.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">According to the report, Ms Guthrie does consider the Alberici email "constituted a direction to take action" and was "consistent with what she regards as an interventionist approach to individual staffing and editorial matters which the Chair adopted.'</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Equally, Ms Guthrie regards the Probyn phone call from Mr Milne as providing "significant pressure to terminate Mr Probyn's employment."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Shoot him", "get rid of her", "bone her", "spear him" — no one who uses colloquial Australian would have any doubt what they mean, whatever Mr Milne believes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The current processes for appointing non-executive directors to the ABC board may have been well intentioned, but they have failed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is time for the Senate to pass the modest, measured, graduated steps I am proposing so that the chances for political interference in the ABC — real or perceived — are reduced and the public can be assured that the pre-eminent cultural institution is not only genuinely independence, but also has the protections to withstand attacks on that independence as well as its autonomy and integrity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the bill to the Senate.</para></quote>
</continue>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUDGET</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>BUDGET</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration by Estimates Committees</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate requires the attendance of the Chairman of NBNCo, Dr Ziggy Switkowski, at the Communications and the Arts Portfolio 2018-19 supplementary Budget estimates hearing of the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee on Tuesday, 23 October 2018, for as long as the NBNCo is called by the committee.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We are not opposing this motion, because it has always been the intention of Dr Switkowski to attend the supplementary budget estimates hearings on 23 October 2018. Dr Switkowski's attendance was confirmed with the committee secretariat on Friday, 12 October.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>55</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Carers Week</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senators Brown, Siewert and Reynolds, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that 14 October 2018 marked the beginning of National Carers Week;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) recognises that there are over 2 million carers across Australia providing critical supports to our family, friends and loved ones at an estimated value of $60 billion per annum to the economy; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) encourages all Australians to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) celebrate the role that carers play in our society, and to get involved in the week's activities, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) participate in events across the country, or on social media, by telling Australians 'Why You Care' and using the hashtag Carers2018.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>International Day of the Girl Child</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SINGH</name>
    <name.id>M0R</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I, and also on behalf of Senators Wong, Moore, Payne, Gichuhi, Waters, Rice, Reynolds and Hanson-Young, and I also add Senator Lines, move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) 11 October 2018 was the internationally recognised Day of the Girl Child,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) since its inception in 2011, the International Day of the Girl Child has:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(A) provided the international community with an opportunity to recognise and celebrate the power and potential of girls around the world, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(B) played a pivotal role in highlighting the barriers still faced by girls and women,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) the theme of this year's Day of the Girl Child was 'With Her: A Skilled GirlForce',</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) according to UNICEF, young women aged between 15-29 are more than three times as likely as young men to not be in employment, education or training,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) 131 million girls worldwide are out of school around the world, while completion rates and learning levels of girls are lower than those of boys,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vi) by 2030, at current rates, more than half the world's girls will not be on track to achieve secondary level literacy and numeracy skills,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vii) some countries lose more than $1 billion a year by failing to educate girls to the same level as boys,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (viii) 35 per cent of economically inactive young women leave work to have a baby or look after family,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ix) girls who are married before the age of 18 see higher poverty rates than those who are married later, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (x) 15 per cent of East Asian and Pacific girls are married before the age of 18;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) recognises that young women's participation in education, training and work:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) provides women with agency and opportunities, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) fosters economic growth and stability;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) reaffirms its commitment to the empowerment of girls and women, and to the fight against all barriers to their full economic, political and social participation; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) acknowledges the work of advocates for girls and women around the world.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>International Day of the Girl Child provides us all with an opportunity to reflect on how we need to empower girls, in Australia and across the globe, so that they can reach their full potential. The government is improving the economic security of Australian women to give women greater choices and options in their lives by providing more support to encourage women and girls into STEM, by providing funding especially to improve women's financial literacy, and by helping to protect the low and inactive superannuation accounts of nearly two million Australian women. The minister for women will be bringing forward a women's economic security statement in spring this year to build on this work.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Migration Amendment (Family Violence and Other Measures) Bill 2016</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) 16 October 2018 represents one year since the Senate debated the Migration Amendment (Family Violence and Other Measures) Bill 2016,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the bill has been listed on the Senate's draft legislation program at least 5 times since then, including for today, where it is the fifth-placed bill, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) among other things, the bill attempts to address family violence in migrant families by ensuring character checks of a sponsor are conducted before a visa application can be made, and that the findings are shared with the person they are sponsoring; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to bring the Migration Amendment (Family Violence and Other Measures) Bill 2016 on for debate by 15 November 2018.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government is committed to debating and passing the Migration Amendment (Family Violence and Other Measures) Bill 2016, and recognises the quickest way to achieve this is by having all senators support this important bill in its current form.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, Governors-General Pension Scheme</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) acknowledges the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse and the ongoing impact past abuse has had on the lives of survivors;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) notes that the Prime Minister will be issuing a formal apology to survivors of institutional child sexual abuse on Monday, 22 October 2018;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) expresses concern that there are currently no mechanisms within the Governor-General Act 1974 to cease the pensions or ongoing payments to former Governors-General where such a payment is no longer in the interest of the public, for instance when unconscionable or illegal behaviour is committed; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) calls on the Prime Minister to introduce a bill to amend the Governor-General Act 1974 to include provisions to cease ongoing payments to former Governors-General where such a payment is not in the interest of the public, or amend the criteria under Section 4 of the Act dictating the terms and eligibility of ongoing payments to former Governors-General.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We understand and empathise with the motivations behind this motion. However, at the same time, we must be very careful in relation to any decision we make in relation to the position of the Governor-General, the highest office of our land. We must be very careful not to make decisions which inappropriately undermine the independence of that very high office. Benefits under the Governors-General Pension Scheme are governed by the Governor-General Act 1974. There is no provision under that act for the government or another authority to take a decision to cancel a former Governor-General's pension. The government is not proposing to amend that act.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">A division having been called and the bells being rung—</inline></para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cormann</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to defer this division until a later time today.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Nuclear Energy</title>
          <page.no>57</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that a recent Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report on limiting global temperature increase by 1 degrees by 2050:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) stated that 'nuclear increases its share in most 1 degree pathways by 2050',</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) indicated in some projections that nuclear energy generation could expand by as much as 200 exajoules by 2100 – the equivalent of double the United States of America's annual consumption,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) estimated nuclear energy generation would increase by 2 times by 2050 in 85 mitigation scenarios, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) the median uptake of primary energy supply via nuclear energy across the 85 mitigation scenarios between 2020 and 2050 was 7 per cent, more than renewable energy (6 per cent) and biomass (5 per cent);</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) further notes that investigation of nuclear energy generation in Australia has been the subject of a legislative ban imposed at the behest of The Greens for almost 20 years; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls upon the Federal Government to take steps to allow the consideration of nuclear energy generation in Australia's energy mix.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government is taking practical action to lower power prices for Australian households and businesses, including through implementing the recommendations of the Finkel review and the ACCC retail electricity pricing inquiry. We will not be distracted from our goal of lowering prices while keeping the lights on. The government currently has no plans to review the ban on nuclear generation. We have a track record of meeting and beating our emissions reduction targets, and we will meet our 2030 target.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:21]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>7</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C (teller)</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>45</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Lines, S</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Fuel</title>
          <page.no>58</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) recognises that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) ordinary Australians are struggling financially – the cost of living is too high,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the price of petrol is the highest that it has ever been and is a burden on ordinary Australians, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) there are calls for a national fuel strike; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to immediately remove fuel excise to lower the cost of living burden for ordinary Australians.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The coalition recognises the cost-of-living pressures on households. That's why the coalition has legislated tax cuts for individuals and small businesses. There are a number of factors behind the rise in petrol prices, including higher global oil prices and a lower Australian-to-US dollar exchange rate. In December 2017 the coalition government directed the ACCC to monitor the prices, costs and profits relating to the supply of fuel products in Australia until December 2019. As a result the ACCC is now monitoring petrol prices on a daily basis. Where it sees issues of concern, it investigates. When it finds sufficient evidence, it will take action to protect consumers against misleading and anticompetitive conduct by fuel retailers. Government does not make taxation policy through Senate motions.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 1130 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:27]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>5</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE (teller)</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>49</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Defence</title>
          <page.no>59</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) on 11 July 2018, United States President, Mr Donald Trump, told NATO leaders they should increase their defence spending to 4 per cent of their country's economic output,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the United States spent approximately 3 per cent of its GDP on defence last year,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) Australia spent approximately 2 per cent of its GDP on defence last year,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) we live in a volatile geo-political environment, and Australia ought to have strong defence capabilities to defend the air-sea gap approach to our borders, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) historically, during the 1950s and 1960s, Australia spent on average 3 per cent of its GDP on defence; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to increase its defence spending to a target of 4 per cent GDP to protect all Australians.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The 2018-19 budget maintains the government's commitment to provide Defence with a stable and sustainable funding growth path, with the defence budget growing to two per cent of GDP by 2020-21. The government are confident defence funding is sufficient to execute our plans for defence and to protect our nation's security and prosperity. Before we came to power, Labor reduced the defence budget to 1.56 per cent of GDP, the lowest level since 1938. Over the next decade, from 2018-19, the $200 billion Integrated Investment Program demonstrates the government's commitment to creating a more potent and capable Defence Force through programs such as the continuous naval shipbuilding program, the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program and the purchase of a fleet of new combat reconnaissance vehicles to protect our troops.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 1134 be agreed to.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">A division having been called and the bells being rung—</inline></para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Bernardi</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I added a voice to that in support, and it was the wrong motion. I made a mistake. I don't support this motion as it currently stands.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>With the leave of the Senate, I will cancel the division, given Senator Bernardi's statement. The division is cancelled.</para>
<para>Question negatived.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Domestic and Family Violence</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) since the last Senate sitting period, there have been 8 women killed by violence in Australia, bringing the total of women killed by violence to 55 in 2018, as reported by Counting Dead Women Australia from Destroy The Joint,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) on average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) 1 in 3 Australian women have experienced physical violence since the age of 15,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) 1 in 5 Australian women has experienced sexual violence,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) 1 in 6 Australian women has experienced physical or sexual violence by a current or former partner,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vi) 1 in 4 Australian women has experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vii) Australian women are nearly three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (viii) there is growing evidence that women with disabilities are more likely to experience violence,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ix) Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women report experiencing violence in the previous 12 months at 3 times the rate of non-Indigenous women, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (x) in 2014-15, Indigenous women were 32 times as likely to be hospitalised due to family violence as non-Indigenous women; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) recognise domestic violence against women as a national security crisis,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) adequately fund frontline domestic violence and crisis housing services to ensure that all women seeking safety can access these services when and where they need them,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) legislate for 10 days paid domestic violence leave, so that women do not have to choose between paying the bills and seeking safety, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) implement all 25 recommendations of the report of the Finance and Public Administration References Committee into domestic violence in Australia, tabled in the Senate on 20 August 2015.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>All jurisdictions are responsible for keeping women and children safe. The government has spent well in excess of $300 million on women's safety since 2015. We are focused on practical measures that reduce the incidence of violence and, when it occurs, support victims and their children. I note that the government currently has legislation in the parliament to enshrine the Fair Work Commission decision of a minimum standard of five days of unpaid domestic violence leave.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Warragamba Dam Wall</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the New South Wales (NSW) Government is proposing to raise the Warragamba Dam wall by fourteen metres, which could inundate up to 4 700 hectares of national parks and 65 kilometres of wilderness streams and rivers, irreversibly damaging the integrity of the Greater Blue Mountains World Heritage Area (GBMWHA),</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) there are 25 threatened plant and animal species which inhabit the proposed inundation area, including the Camden White Gum, Kowmung Hakea and near-extinct honeyeaters, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) there are alternatives for protecting the region from flooding, and the community is sceptical that raising the dam wall is just a plan to allow a huge increase in inappropriate property developments on the floodplains of the Hawkesbury and Nepean Rivers;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) opposes the NSW Government's plans to raise the Warragamba Dam wall; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Minister for the Environment to block federal approvals required to raise the Warragamba Dam wall.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The proposal to raise the height of the Warragamba Dam wall for flood mitigation has been referred under the EPBC Act. It will undergo a rigorous assessment in accordance with the requirements of the act.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor does not support this motion. Labor never supports a motion that calls on federal approvals under the EPBC Act to be blocked or prejudges a decision on an EPBC Act decision, because it is unlawful to do so.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that matter No. 1137 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:37]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>8</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>41</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Schools</title>
          <page.no>62</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the Liberal-National Federal Government has announced it will give an additional $4 billion to the Catholic and Independent school sectors following an intense lobbying campaign, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) public schools, despite teaching two in three students in Australia, are underfunded and, under the current system, almost 90 per cent of public schools will not receive the funding they need to meet the educational needs of their students; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to cancel the special deal with Catholic and Independent schools, and commit to funding public schools fairly, including diverting the full $4 billion into underfunded public schools.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The government's funding model for Catholic and independent schools is consistent with the needs based approach. It was based on a recommendation made by David Gonski in 2011 and taken up by Michael Chaney in his review of school resourcing. State governments are the majority funder of state schools, and the federal government is providing funding to the state school system on an agreed needs based approach. Commonwealth funding for state schools was $6.8 billion last year. It will be $7.3 billion this year. It will be $7.9 billion next year, and it will be $8.6 billion the year after that.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You don't advance the interests of students by pitting public schoolkids against non-government schoolkids. Labor has actually acted and announced $14 billion of funding to public schools. We won't be taking lectures from the Greens. Last year the Greens wanted to vote with the government to cut funding to public schools, and Senator Hanson-Young called it a once-in-a-generation opportunity. The only reason the Greens opposed it in the end was because Lee Rhiannon took on the party leadership and won in the party room, and that stand subsequently cost her her job. And who replaced her? Senator Faruqi. This is absolute hypocrisy from Senator Faruqi and the Greens—knock off Lee Rhiannon for defending public schools and then try to claim the moral high ground. Only Labor stood up for public schools from the start, and only Labor can be trusted with public schools.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 1138 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:42]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>10</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>41</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Watt, M (teller)</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>63</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that the Government is deploying a strategy of avoiding accountability, interrogation and scrutiny in relation to Australia's rising pollution levels, and owning up to its hostility towards any climate policy by:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the Minister for the Environment refusing four media requests from 7.30, half a dozen requests for interviews from Sky News and multiple interviews from Fairfax Media and Channel 7,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the now frequent practice of holding back the quarterly updates of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory reports, merging quarterly reports and releasing them at times to minimise scrutiny and obscure public attention of their contents, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) most recently, by proposing an estimates schedule for the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee that has pushed back scrutiny of greenhouse reductions to 9pm in the evening; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) directs the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, in relation to its supplementary estimates hearing on Monday, 22 October 2018, to call on program 2 of the Environment and Energy portfolio: Reducing Australia's Greenhouse Gas Emissions by not later than 2 pm.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The committee schedule has been set to factor in the national apology, together with the availability of the various agencies and their respective travel needs. Labor, the coalition and other crossbench senators were all able to agree on this timetable some time ago.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CHISHOLM</name>
    <name.id>39801</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor supports the first part of this motion, which condemns the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government's inaction on climate change. However, Labor will oppose this motion because we cannot support the matters relating to estimates programming. Labor submitted our Environment and Communications estimates request to the secretariat on 19 and 20 September. The Greens should share when they submitted their request, if indeed they did. This motion seeks to move only program 2.1 to an earlier time, not programs 2.2 and 2.3. The nature of estimates is that someone has to go last. The Senate has a robust procedure for spillover hearings if necessary. Labor will always hold the government to account on their poor performance when it comes to inaction on climate change.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It's very clear that this government is deeply ashamed of how fast pollution is rising on its watch. That's why they're undertaking an orchestrated strategy to hide information on pollution growth—to obscure it and drop it at a time of their choosing. An FOI from the ACF shows that they hid the last quarterly greenhouse accounts for almost two months after the department cleared it for release. Then they dumped it in the late afternoon before a long weekend of footy finals. What a disgrace! They're ashamed that this report shows that pollution's going up. It exposes that they've got no climate policy and energy policy. You can see it in the way the environment minister is avoiding all media interview requests. You can see it in the way that they've moved the estimates session on reducing greenhouse gas emissions from during the day to as late at night as possible. It's up to the Senate to stand up to these strategies to obscure what this government is doing when it comes to trashing our environment.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 1143 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:49]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>9</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>42</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, Governors-General Pension Scheme</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We now move back to general business notice of motion No. 1124, which was deferred earlier and is in the name of Senator Siewert. A request has been communicated to me to have a vote on clauses (a), (b) and (c) separate from clause (d).</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Could we please take clauses (a) and (b) separate from (c) and then separate from (d).</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Okay. The question is that the Senate agree to clauses (a) and (b) of general business notice of motion No. 1124.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I now put the question on clause (c) of that motion.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the Senate agree to clause (d) of general business notice of motion No. 1124 in the name of Senator Siewert.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [15:53]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>10</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>43</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
                <name>Wong, P</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Anti-Poverty Week</title>
          <page.no>66</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:01]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan) </p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Singh, LM</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>28</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hanson, P</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>67</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) That there be laid on the table by the Minister representing the Minister for the Environment, by not later than 5 calendar months after each:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) 31 March;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) 30 June;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) 30 September; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) 31 December</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">the quarterly update of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) If the Senate is not sitting when a quarterly update is ready for presentation, the statement is to be presented to the President under standing order 166.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) This order is of continuing effect.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Four quarterly updates of Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory have been published each year for the past eight years. The government published the latest update on 28 September 2018.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that motion No. 1142 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:05]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan) </p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>6</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. </p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Immigration Detention</title>
          <page.no>68</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I add the names of senators Storer, Griff and Senator Hinch as co-sponsors of this motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>So added.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that there are currently around 100 children being detained by the Australian Government on Nauru,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that many, if not all of these children, are suffering serious psychological disorders, such as 'resignation syndrome', where children abandon all hopes of a better life, and become suicidal,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) that the Australian Medical Association has called on the Government for "urgent action to prevent further harm to the health and welfare of child refugees and asylum seekers on Nauru, [and that] these children and their families be removed from harm and have access to healthcare of an appropriate standard",</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) that nearly 6 000 doctors have signed an open letter to the Prime Minister, Mr Morrison, supporting this call from the Australian Medical Association,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) Mr Broadbent's statement that "This is an embarrassing humanitarian crisis that the government needs to resolve in a manner acceptable to the Australian people",</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vi) Mr Laundy's statement that "something must be done as soon as possible",</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (vii) Ms Banks' statement that this change-of-heart "comes from the hearts and minds of the Australian people", and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (viii) the agreement of these three Liberal MPs that "these kids have been there far too long";</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) congratulates and thanks the brave Liberal members who told the Government their focus is only on the welfare of the children; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) calls on the Federal Government to immediately bring every child in detention on Nauru to Australia for urgent medical and psychological assessment and treatment, along with the family members of children being assessed and treated.</para></quote>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Illegal maritime arrivals will never settle in Australia. There are 65 health professionals contracted by the Australian government to provide health services on Nauru, including 33 mental health professionals. These services are available seven days and week and after hours. This is a ratio of one medical professional for every 11 transferees on the island. Decisions about medical transfers are made on a case-by-case basis under the guidance of the Commonwealth medical officer.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I've been asked by Senator Chisholm to put paragraphs (a) and (b), in the first instance, and paragraph (c), in the second instance, separately, as senators intend to vote differently. The question is that paragraphs (a) and (b) of motion No. 1145 be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:09]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>32</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McAllister, J</name>
                <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Watt, M</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>27</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC (teller)</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Cormann, M</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that paragraph (c) of motion No. 1145 be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:13]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>12</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>37</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Abetz, E</name>
                <name>Anning, F</name>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                <name>Cash, MC</name>
                <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Farrell, D</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                <name>Kitching, K</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                <name>McGrath, J</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Sterle, G</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKIM</name>
    <name.id>JKM</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is not granted.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>70</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>China</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that general business notice of motion No. 1132 standing in my name for today, relating to China, be taken as a formal motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal? There is an objection.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Confucius Institutes</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that general business notice of motion No. 1133 standing in my name for today, relating to the Confucius Institutes, be taken as a formal motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal? There is an objection.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Embassy: Israel</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask that general business notice of motion No. 1141 standing in my name for today, relating to the Australian Embassy in Israel, be taken as a formal motion.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Is there any objection to this motion being taken as formal? There is an objection.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Suspension of Standing Orders</title>
          <page.no>70</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator ANNING</name>
    <name.id>273829</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to contingent notice, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That so much of the standing orders be suspended as would prevent me from moving a motion that general business notice of motion no. 1141 may be moved immediately and determined without amendment or debate.</para></quote>
<para>I moved this motion in response to the indications by the Prime Minister that the Australian government intends to move the Australian Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and thus recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Israel is the land promised to the Jewish people by God. Despite conquests and expulsions of the Jews by tyrants since the age of Abraham, there has never been a time when there were not Jews living in Israel. For over 3,000 years the capital of that land has been Jerusalem. Since it is good enough for God, it seems to me that it should be good enough for the Australian government to recognise this fact and acknowledge it by moving our embassy to West Jerusalem—apparently not so.</para>
<para>It was only two months ago that I moved a motion here in this Senate to move the embassy to Jerusalem, and the government sided with Labor and the Greens to unanimously vote against my motion. But now, only days away from a by-election in Wentworth—an electorate with quite a large Jewish community—the Prime Minister has apparently experienced his own Damascene conversion and claims to be now considering moving the embassy. Senators and the Australian people are entitled to be sceptical about the sincerity of this commitment given the past history of the Turnbull-Morrison government in acknowledging and kowtowing to the Palestinian authority and various other Muslim dictators. This is why I thought it appropriate to test the support for this proposed commitment with this motion. Given the fact that my motion has been opposed, senators can now draw their own conclusion as to the sincerity of the government's position.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In line with the government's longstanding view, motions that cannot be debated or amended should not deal with complex foreign policy matters. Australia is a longstanding strong supporter of a durable and resilient two-state solution in the Israel-Palestinian conflict. The government has announced that it will examine the merits of moving Australia's embassy to West Jerusalem in the context of our support for that two-state solution.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the motion moved by Senator Anning to suspend standing orders be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
          <division.header>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [16:23]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
            </body>
          </division.header>
          <division.data>
            <ayes>
              <num.votes>2</num.votes>
              <title>AYES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Anning, F (teller)</name>
                <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
              </names>
            </ayes>
            <noes>
              <num.votes>36</num.votes>
              <title>NOES</title>
              <names>
                <name>Brockman, S</name>
                <name>Brown, CL</name>
                <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                <name>Dodson, P</name>
                <name>Duniam, J</name>
                <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                <name>Griff, S</name>
                <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                <name>Hinch, D</name>
                <name>Hume, J</name>
                <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                <name>Moore, CM</name>
                <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                <name>Paterson, J</name>
                <name>Rice, J</name>
                <name>Ruston, A</name>
                <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                <name>Siewert, R</name>
                <name>Smith, DA</name>
                <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                <name>Storer, TR</name>
                <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                <name>Williams, JR</name>
              </names>
            </noes>
            <pairs>
              <num.votes>0</num.votes>
              <title>PAIRS</title>
              <names></names>
            </pairs>
          </division.data>
          <division.result>
            <body>
              <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
            </body>
          </division.result>
        </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've had a number of requests that, due to the change in the program, a number of senators missed providing notices at item 10, so, firstly, with the agreement of the Senate, I will ask that the Table Office accept motions lodged up until this point and, secondly, if any senators now wish to rise to deal with these matters, I will deal with them. Does the Senate concur? I take it that it does.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>71</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Withdrawal</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to notice of intention given yesterday, I withdraw business of the Senate notice of motion No. 2 standing in my name for 13 November 2018 proposing the disallowance of the Social Security (Declared Program Participant) Determination 2018.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>71</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice of my intention that, at the giving of notices on the next sitting day, I shall withdraw business of the Senate notices of motion Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 standing in my name for 29 November 2018 proposing the disallowance of the Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Regulations 2018, Australian Radiation Protection and Nuclear Safety (Licence Charges) Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Regulations 2018, Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment (Education and Training Measures No. 2) Regulations 2018 and the Financial Framework (Supplementary Powers) Amendment (Foreign Affairs and Trade Measures No. 1) Regulations 2018.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice of my intention that, at the giving of notices on the next sitting day, I shall withdraw business of the Senate notices of motion Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 5 standing in my name for 5 December 2018 proposing the disallowance of the Adult Disability Assessment Determination 2018, Criminal Code (Terrorist Organisation—Al-Shabaab) Regulations 2018, Federal Circuit Court Amendment (Costs and Other Measures) Rules 2018 and Migration Amendment (Skilling Australians Fund) Regulations 2018.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I give notice that, on the next day of sitting, I, and also on behalf of Senator Bilyk, shall move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes that:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) abortion was decriminalised in Tasmania in 2013, and surgical terminations were being provided at private clinics without significant out-of-pocket expenses,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) early this year, this provider closed their clinic, and the Tasmanian Liberal Government ruled out providing this essential service within the Tasmanian public health system, with women forced to travel interstate for treatment,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) in February, the Federal and Tasmanian Ministers for Health gave assurances that this issue had been resolved, with the Tasmanian Minister more recently stating that a new low cost private provider would begin operation by October this year, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) despite these assurances, evidence has revealed a significant increase in the number of Tasmanian women being forced to travel interstate to access surgical abortions at great cost, and the Tasmanian Government is yet to reveal details of the private provider; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls on the Federal Government to:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) work with the Tasmanian Government to resolve this issue for Tasmanian women so they can affordably access surgical terminations in the state, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) directly encourage provision of these essential health services in Tasmania by matching Federal Labor's $1 million commitment to a reproductive health hub.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>72</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>78</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1147" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018. Many Australians were horrified to learn that schools across Australia had the power to discriminate, expel and fire students and teachers simply on the basis of who they are, simply on the basis of their sexuality or gender identity. Australians were horrified to learn through the Ruddock review, a review that was intended to increase discrimination, that this discrimination existed in laws right across the country. We heard the Prime Minister say, during the course of that national debate, that he would introduce legislation to ensure that this area of discrimination in law would be removed so that no child is discriminated against, so that no student is expelled for simply being who they are. We want to give force to those words because we're yet to see any action from the government with regard to legislation that would make sure that no child and no teacher spends another day without these basic protections that should be afforded to them.</para>
<para>We have to accept that this discrimination has a real and harmful impact on many people right across the country. Firstly, we know that it has a direct and material impact, because this discrimination does happen and these laws are enforced by some religious schools and educational facilities. Just this week we heard the story of Craig Campbell, a teacher in Western Australia who lost his job after telling his school he was in a same-sex relationship. Craig was a practising Christian and had been teaching at the school for two years. The school mentioned nothing about his performance as an educator. It was a straightforward case of discrimination. He was sacked because he was gay. Those actions have no place in modern Australia. They have no place in any decent or civilised modern democracy.</para>
<para>In the lead-up to the Wentworth by-election, when there is a level of engagement on this and many other issues, it is one of those rare moments that political parties are listening to the Australian community about what their wants and desires are for this country—for the sort of community that their children grow up in, for the sort of environment that they live in, for what their workplaces look like. Today, through this debate, we've got the opportunity to end discrimination against those kids and, indeed, teachers who right now are struggling with their gender identity or sexuality. If this bill is passed, we will achieve something significant for all of those people. It's not just about where these laws have been enacted and enforced by individual schools. It is about the message that simply the existence of these laws sends, particularly to young people who are coming to terms with their own sexuality and hearing from their communities that the way they feel is somehow wrong, that it's morally repugnant. That's what these laws do; they send that message.</para>
<para>Only recently we went through a national debate on the marriage equality plebiscite, where the very worth of these young people was questioned. Their worth was questioned in a national debate so that they were made to feel somehow abnormal—that their rights, the way they felt, somehow did not fit the values we expect from members of our community. Well, that's got to stop, and that's what this bill will do. It will send a very strong statement whereby once again we will come together as a community and say that discrimination of this sort has no place in modern Australia.</para>
<para>The Prime Minister now has an opportunity to support this legislation and give force to the words he uttered only a few days ago, when he said he didn't support this sort of discrimination. But let's be very clear about this. We need to end discrimination not just for young people but for people in the workplace. We won't accept changes that simply deal with the issue of young students. It must be wholesale reform that also addresses the issue of discrimination directed at teachers. If we pass these changes today, it means that the Sex Discrimination Act will be amended once and for all across the nation to ensure that unfair exemptions against students, teachers and indeed contractors in religious schools would no longer exist.</para>
<para>Many people across the community haven't been aware that this is an issue that obviously impacts on the LGBTIQ+ community. They haven't been aware of it because it's not something that we as a nation have had the courage to discuss. Well, that's what we're doing today, right now. As a result of the Ruddock review, the whole nation is aware of these discriminatory exemptions, and the reality is that most people object. It is heartwarming to know the outrage that so many decent Australians felt when they became aware of this legislation. People right across the country reacted with anger at the thought that a teacher given the privilege of educating young children would be sacked simply because of the sort of relationship that they're in.</para>
<para>The government knew that the community would be appalled to learn this. They knew, given the result of the marriage plebiscite, that there would be that sort of response. They knew that Australians would be angered that LGBTIQ teachers could be sacked not because of their performance but because of who they are, because of their identity. They know because there's a by-election around the corner and they're hearing it from the people of Wentworth. But, rather than take action, they are simply mouthing empty promises. They've refused to put legislation before this parliament.</para>
<para>We know that the only reason that this legislation has been met with the reaction it has been met with is the Ruddock review and the coverage that it got. The government tried to bury that report. We had the spectacle where the Leader of the Government in the Senate refused to provide that report so that there could be some transparency and so that we knew the full impact of discrimination across a whole range of areas in law. He refused to provide that material to the Senate, citing cabinet confidentiality. The Prime Minister belled the cat only a few days later when he made it clear that, indeed, the cabinet had not considered the Ruddock review, so the basis for denying that report to the Australian community was proven to be a falsehood.</para>
<para>That's why we're concerned when the Prime Minister says, 'We're going to move to change discrimination in law,' on the eve of a by-election, without presenting legislation. That's why we're sceptical, and that's why it's so important that we have this debate today and that we hear from the Leader of the Government in the Senate, from members of the Morrison cabinet and from senior members of the government on the record that they are going to move to end discrimination against students and against teachers.</para>
<para>Of course, this bill doesn't say that religion doesn't matter. Of course, it matters to many, many Australians. It is central to the lives of many Australians, and we respect their right to practise their religion in the way that they see fit. Indeed, there are still provisions in this bill which exempt bodies established purely for religious purposes who are responsible for the ordainment of priests, ministers of religion or members of any religious order. We respect the freedom of those institutions to be able to educate those practitioners in a way that is consistent with their faith. We believe in the right to freedom of religion, but that freedom is not the freedom to discriminate. It's not the freedom to say to a young person, 'You are not valued in the same way as somebody else who might not express their sexuality or gender identity in the way that you do.'</para>
<para>We've stood by many communities in the name of equality and fairness, be they cultural, religious or LGBTIQ+ communities. Why? Because it's the right thing to do and because we have integrity. But a party that strategically suppresses documents so that discrimination, in law, continues to remain protected is not a party that has integrity. A party that promises to do one thing before an election but doesn't provide a commitment to this chamber that it will do it after the election is not a party with integrity.</para>
<para>It is critical that this bill be debated today and over the course of the next two days. It is the pressure of a by-election that is forcing this government to act. These are rare moments, when parties are too busy focusing on themselves, too busy settling old scores, too busy seeking vengeance and payback and too busy settling vendettas. This is one of those rare moments where a party with a very slim majority has got an ear out to what the electorate is saying. That's an opportunity to ensure that we get this legislation passed and that we hear very clearly from senior members of the government that they will end all forms of discrimination. We need action now. We need politicians from all persuasions to stand for what is right and what is decent.</para>
<para>I have to say that the support of the Labor Party and crossbench to ensure we have this debate is something that we appreciate, and we want to put on the record our thanks to members of the Labor Party and the crossbench for ensuring this Greens bill is debated at a moment when people right around the country are listening and when the opportunity for change is here. I say to you that if you stand for decency, if you stand for respect and if you stand for fairness and equality, then you should support this legislation</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government will not be supporting the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018, as the Prime Minister has previously indicated. In fact, as the Prime Minister announced on Saturday, the government will be introducing our own bill to amend the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 to ensure that no student of a non-state school can be expelled on the basis of their sexuality. As part of our consultations with the opposition, the Attorney-General is meeting today with the shadow Attorney-General to discuss our proposed draft amendments to give effect to that commitment. Subject to agreement between the government and the opposition in relation to our proposed amendments, we would be in a position to introduce those amendments to the Sex Discrimination Act 1984 as soon as possible during this sitting fortnight. Subject to agreement, it could be as early as tomorrow but certainly no later than next week.</para>
<para>I should also make very clear, as the Prime Minister has and other members of the government have, that our government does not support the expulsion of students from religious and non-state schools on the basis of their sexuality. This is a view that is widely shared, incidentally, by religious schools and communities across our country. The government is very happy and very keen to work with the opposition, with other parties and with other senators and members of parliament. We don't want to play politics with this. We just want to address the issue.</para>
<para>We are of the view that it is very sad that the inaccurate way the Ruddock review, in particular, has been reported has caused unnecessary anxiety amongst parents and amongst children. So we do want to see this issue addressed over this sitting fortnight. We will continue to work with the opposition and other interested members of parliament to help ensure that happens. I can again confirm on behalf of the government that the Attorney-General will be meeting today, or may have already started a meeting, with the shadow Attorney-General to discuss our proposed draft amendments to give effect to that commitment. We are in a position to move very swiftly and certainly during this sitting fortnight.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator JACINTA COLLINS</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor welcomes the opportunity to address these issues, and I note Senator Cormann's remarks about moving forward with respect to them. Australia is a tolerant and accepting nation, and discrimination against LGBTI Australians has no place in our national laws. Equally, the right of our churches and churchgoers to live by their traditions and beliefs is also part of our national identity. Balancing these two things can be complex, and we know that there are many strong views in the current debate about how best to balance freedom of religion with the right of all Australians to live free from discrimination. We respect all of those views. We had hoped that this debate could be carried out in a mature and measured way. But, unfortunately, the government has had the review into religious freedom since May and has so far refused to release it so Australia can have a proper debate about these important issues. It's clear that they are doing this to hide it from the voters in Wentworth. Why else would they continue so consistently to refuse to release it?</para>
<para>Many religious education institutions have made it clear that they do not use these exemptions. However, we respect their view that they should be allowed to run their organisations in line with their beliefs. We respect the right of parents to send children to the school of their choice and to have their children educated in accordance with their religious convictions. We know that many parents choose religious schools because they want their children to be grounded in the identity and mission of a particular religious faith. We also understand that the mission of a religious school is delivered not just in religious education or scripture classes but also throughout the culture of the school via religious services, sporting activities, community service, student leadership and in many areas of the education curriculum.</para>
<para>When it comes to employment, we understand that religious schools and parents of students expect that teachers and staff support the ethos, values and principles of the particular faith, and not act in ways that undermine the school's mission. The reality is that staff who choose to work in religious schools understand this too, and that is why there are very few examples of faith based schools needing to rely on exemptions from the discrimination law based on identity when making employment decisions. We also believe that in 2018 these exemptions from discrimination for gender identity, sexual orientation and relationship status are out of step with community expectations and are no longer the best way to safeguard the mission and identity of religious schools.</para>
<para>While every employer is entitled to require employees to act and perform their duties in accordance with the stated policies and mission of their organisation, in the absence of such exemptions it is necessary to ensure that religious schools are positively entitled to teach and operate in accordance with their faith and mission.</para>
<para>We propose an affirmative position for religious schools that upholds their exercise of religious freedoms and freedom of association. Our approach to legislation on this issue would remove exemptions from the Sex Discrimination Act that would allow schools to discriminate against children and staff on the basis of sexuality or gender identity. We would also like to see in legislation a recognition that religious schools are entitled to require employees to act in their roles in a way that upholds the ethos and values of that faith, and that this requirement may be taken into account when a person is first employed and in the course of their employment.</para>
<para>This is where we have some concerns about the narrowness of the Discrimination Free Schools Bill that the Greens have introduced this week. Our concern is that, while the bill does appear to address one side of the equation—that is, removing discrimination—it appears to do so without addressing the other side of the equation that I've already talked about: the right of religious communities and their institutions, such as schools, to educate in accordance with the doctrines of their faith. We do not say that finding the right balance between these two principles is easy. I've already indicated that we respect that that's quite complex, particularly in the legislative context, but we are concerned that this bill does not appear to grapple with the problem and addresses only the question of removing discrimination.</para>
<para>Another concern we have about the bill is that it would appear that it might remove the right of religious seminaries—as opposed to religious schools—to discriminate. So while we in Labor will work to amend our laws so that religious schools are no longer able to discriminate against students and their staff on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity or intersex status, we do not believe that this change to the law should extend to religious seminaries. As we have done previously, we call on the government to come to the table and work with the opposition and the crossbench on a suitable way forward. As I've previously noted, Senator Cormann has indicated some elements of that path. It is disappointing, though, that despite saying they were willing to do so earlier in the week, the government had so far refused to do so—so some benefit of the Greens introducing this bill has been to assist in bringing the government to the table. The government could start by releasing the religious freedom report so that we can discuss these issues constructively. Whilst the recommendations of the report have been leaked, we still lack the consideration, the discussion and the logic that the panel put to reaching those recommendations which address those very issues of balance in this area. We firmly believe that it is possible to protect religious freedom and protect people from discrimination. We call on the Senate, the government, the crossbench and the Greens to work together to do that in a respectful way.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm proud to rise to speak on this Greens bill, the Discrimination Free Schools Bill, which would remove exemptions from our federal anti-discrimination laws that currently allow religious schools to expel lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or gender-diverse students and to fire LGBT teachers and staff members simply because of who they are. The Greens have been fighting for years to end these exemptions. They were written into our anti-discrimination laws by the Labor Party and have persisted for far too long. These exemptions must be removed.</para>
<para>Imagine being a student at a religious school and knowing that, if you come out as gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, gender-diverse or non-binary, you risk being expelled. Imagine the extra stress and burden that that places on you at a time when you're already feeling particularly vulnerable. The majority of Australians have been unaware of these discriminatory exemptions, but for LGBT+ people working at religious schools, many of them have gone to work each day knowing that, should they come out or let slip something that they shouldn't, or somehow have their sexuality or their gender identity discovered, they risk being fired and losing their job—just because of who they are. These exemptions have a devastating impact on people's lives.</para>
<para>Over the past week, so many people have come forward sharing their stories. We've heard how some teachers and staff members have been forced back into the closet as soon as they've been offered a job. We've heard how they've feared holding their partner's hand in public in case they bump into a colleague or a student who could out them, which would see them lose their job and their livelihood. We also know that LGBT+ people already suffer worse mental health than their heterosexual and cisgendered peers, because of the stress of things like these exemptions, which mean they could be expelled from their school or fired from their workplace.</para>
<para>Rainbow Families Victoria have collected stories of LGBT+ families whose lives are being affected by our current discriminatory laws and have shared them with members and senators. A future stepmother of five children, who's engaged to her same-sex partner, spoke out this week saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I teach at a conservative Catholic primary school. I am constantly afraid that someone will find out and that I will lose my job. I am the main income earner and my employment is incredibly important. I worry that I will lose my job. I worry that my employer won't give me a good reference if she finds out. This could affect my future employment opportunities. I feel like a criminal and I have done nothing wrong.</para></quote>
<para>For others, these discriminatory exemptions have prevented them from applying for their dream jobs. Tim Hoffmann in my home state of Victoria shared his story with <inline font-style="italic">The Age</inline> earlier this week:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I have a Masters in Theology and want to teach in religious schools. However, I will never apply. I have absolutely no chance as, though I'm Christian, I am an openly gay man.</para></quote>
<para>It was almost a year ago that the marriage equality postal survey results came in showing that the majority of Australians supported ending the discrimination in our marriage laws and making marriage equality a reality. It was a hard-fought and, for many queer Australians, personally difficult win but it confirmed what we had known for years—that Australian people have opened their hearts and truly embraced their LGBTIQ+ family members, friends and colleagues. For years now the majority of Australians have stood side by side with LGBTIQ members of our community in our fight for equality and against discrimination, and on this issue it is no different. A Fairfax poll released this week showed that an overwhelming majority, 74 per cent, of Australians oppose this discrimination. I am so heartened and unsurprised that the vast majority of Australians do not support this legalised discrimination against LGBT Australians.</para>
<para>Our parliament must support the people we represent and fix up these discriminatory laws. Former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull ordered the Ruddock religious freedom review last year as parliament moved to legislate for marriage equality. It was said that he did this as a sop to the right-wing hate-filled conservatives who continue to fight against equality until the very end, but it now seems the Ruddock review has not quite turned out the way they thought. It's only through the review's recommendations being leaked that the Australian people have been alerted to these discriminatory exemptions that have sat within our antidiscrimination laws for many years.</para>
<para>This Saturday, voters in the seat of Wentworth will be going to the polls to elect their new representative to replace former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. Despite the Liberals comfortably winning this seat in 2016, there is a very real chance the Liberals will lose Wentworth this Saturday, because the people of Wentworth are shocked by what this Liberal government has done—its devastating inaction on climate change, its ongoing torture of people seeking asylum and its interference with and funding cuts to the ABC. In the Liberals' desperation to cling on in Wentworth we've seen them release some shocking policies in the lead-up to this Saturday, yet we are still to see Prime Minister Scott Morrison release the full report of the Ruddock review, because the Liberals are afraid of drawing more attention to their awful policies towards LGBTIQ people. Ruddock is a former Liberal government minister after all. His review quite reasonably can be seen as a reflection of where this government is currently at with regard to allowing and entrenching discrimination.</para>
<para>We have now heard both Labor and the Liberals speak up big over the last week about how we need to make sure that LGBT students are not discriminated against. I was pleased to hear from Minister Cormann that he is now going to move quickly to amend legislation to stop the discrimination against LGBT students. It has been wonderful to see this backflip in the Liberals' position. It has also been wonderful to see the Labor Party come out to say that their position now is to end discrimination against students and to end discrimination against teachers and other staff. But it has only been because of the intense community pressure that both the Labor and the Liberal parties have changed their positions over the last fortnight.</para>
<para>So, our bringing on this debate today is a very important opportunity. It's an opportunity to get the government and the Labor opposition on the record about ending this discrimination before the pressure comes off after the vote in Wentworth on Saturday. We heard Minister Cormann say that, yes, he was happy and the government are going to move to end discrimination against students. But when it comes to teachers and other staff, he is silent. Despite the impact that this discrimination is having on teachers and staff at schools, the government remain silent. One can only presume that their intention is to continue to prosecute the case for allowing those discriminations to continue on in our antidiscrimination laws, to allow the continuation of discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender teachers and other staff.</para>
<para>We've got the Wentworth by-election coming up, and it's important that the voters of Wentworth know, because they overwhelmingly voted for equality and against discrimination in the marriage equality postal survey last year. Wentworth delivered an 81 per cent yes vote in the postal survey last year. So they deserve to know. Through this debate, they are able to hear where Labor and the Liberals stand before Wentworth goes to the polls this Saturday.</para>
<para>I'm really proud of the bill that we are debating today. It would remove exemptions not just for students at religious schools but for all teachers and staff members as well. And it would not just work to protect students, teachers and staff members on the basis of their sexuality and their sexual orientation but also on their gender identity. Trans and gender-diverse people have hardly been mentioned in the public debate over the last fortnight. We must ensure that trans and gender-diverse students cannot be expelled because of their gender identity and that trans and gender-diverse teachers and other staff members aren't able to be fired.</para>
<para>Yesterday Prime Minister Morrison said, and I quote: 'We must act right now. We can deal with this once and for all.' Well, Mr Prime Minister, you have an opportunity to act right now and remove this unfair discrimination once and for all. To act now and, particularly, once and for all means we've got to remove discrimination against students but also against teachers and other staff. We need to do it now. Labor and Liberal must turn their words into action and vote for this bill, vote for our Greens bill, to protect students, teachers and other staff members from being expelled or fired by religious schools just because of who they are. So I call on both the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition to work with us in good faith and support this Greens bill today—no ifs, no buts. Together, we can end this unfair discrimination once and for all.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm very pleased to rise to speak on the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018. I'm pleased to do so because it provides me with an opportunity to reassure people who may have been concerned by inaccurate media reporting in the past week on this issue. Before I get into the detail, I want to start with a broader, more fundamental point. As Australians, we are united by many things, but we also have disagreements. That is completely normal in any free society.</para>
<para>One area where we do disagree is matters of faith and morality. That is to be expected when we come from many different backgrounds. That disagreement, on its own, is not necessarily a problem. We do, however, have to find a framework to manage those differences that allows us to happily co-exist and live alongside each other, even though we disagree on some things. We need to do so in a way that respects the fundamental dignity of every Australian. Every Australian, whatever their beliefs, deserves to be treated with equal respect. They also deserve equal freedom to live their own lives according to their own values. No Australian should seek to impose on other Australians values that they don't share. We can, of course, do our best to persuade each other to our world view. But, if we are unsuccessful, we shouldn't resort to other means to force people to live as we choose to live. Effectively, what that means is that we need to accept our society is pluralistic. We can accommodate people of different views comfortably and happily if we all respect each other's freedom to live our own lives according to our own values. That does not require you to agree with or endorse other people's views. It does mean, though, that if you wish to enjoy your own freedom you have to respect the freedom of others, too. I think this is an intrinsically Australian trait. Almost all of us have a live-and-let-live attitude.</para>
<para>How does this apply to the bill before the Senate today? There are two groups of Australians who take a great interest in this issue. One group is gay Australians and their friends and families. The other group is people of faith. I want to reassure both. Firstly, I say to LGBTI kids: you might have read somewhere that someone wants to kick you out of school because you are gay; nothing could be further from the truth. I've been very actively involved in the religious freedom debate. I've met, corresponded with and heard from more people than I could count about religious liberty. In all that time, no-one, not once, has ever asked me to make it easier to kick gay kids out of school. Never. If they had, I would have told them, politely, where to go. I know that all my colleagues would have done the same. I know that life is not always easy for you. Nobody wants to make it any harder. You deserve to have the same right as anyone else to go to school without the fear of expulsion.</para>
<para>There is no proposal in the Ruddock review or anywhere else to make it easier to kick gay kids out of school. In fact, the Ruddock review actually recommends that the existing powers to do so should be substantially narrowed. The government will go one step further and will get rid of them altogether. We are doing so because a law that singles out gay kids has no place in Australia, and we're doing so with the full support of people of faith, their schools and their communities. They have told us that that this is a power that they don't use and don't want. They are not the intolerant bigots that they are sometimes unfairly made out to be. Incidentally, the law which permitted this at a federal level was in fact introduced by the former Gillard government and by the then Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus. This week, Labor senators have called this outdated. Australia certainly has changed since 2013, but not that much. It wasn't appropriate then, it's not appropriate now and our government will get rid of it.</para>
<para>The second group of people I want to reassure are people of faith. Your rights are no less important than those of any other Australian. Although I'm not personally religious, I know that, whatever your faith tradition, you are good Australians. You are not bigots, you are not reactionaries and you are not monolithic. You disagree with other people of faith as much as any other Australian, and I know you don't like all being put in one basket as if you were all the same. The government will act to protect your religious freedoms. We will do so because religious freedom is one of our most fundamental and cherished freedoms, although, sadly, today it is not well understood.</para>
<para>Religious freedom is the freedom to have faith, to not have faith, to change your faith or to leave your faith if you wish. It is a freedom for all Australians to enjoy equally and not just a freedom for those Australians who choose to worship on a weekly basis. We all have an interest in maintaining this freedom, regardless of our own beliefs. Societies without religious freedom are not societies any of us would want to live in, whether we are believers or not. Some societies have mandated one state religion. Others have banned religion altogether. Others still have made it a crime to change or leave your religion. What they have in common is that individual rights have been horribly trampled. None of us want to see Australia go down that road.</para>
<para>Religious freedom is also not just the freedom to believe in your faith. For people of faith, it is not sufficient just to believe. To live a life of integrity as a person of faith also means to live out those values in the world. Your actions, too, need to reflect your deepest and most sincerely held convictions. Forcing you to act contrary to them does limit your religious freedom. In this way, religious freedom is not really just about religion; it also encompasses free speech, freedom of association and freedom of conscience. That's not a coincidence. All of those fundamental freedoms—speech, association and conscience—were developed in the West in conjunction with, and as a result of, our evolving ideas about religious freedom. Philosophers like John Milton and John Locke developed our ideas about free speech in an explicitly religious context. For them, the question of the day was whether they should be free to speak about and debate religious questions. As Milton says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Give me the liberty to know, to utter and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.</para></quote>
<para>Obviously, our understanding of free speech today is much broader. It is not just for religious debates but for all issues of concern to Australians. But free speech remains an essential freedom for the maintenance of religious freedom. How can any of us exercise our right to believe, not believe or change our beliefs if we don't have the opportunity to hear competing ideas about faith?</para>
<para>Freedom of association is a particularly relevant component of religious freedom in the context of this bill. In a pluralistic society, freedom of association is a vital freedom that people use to come together with others who share their values in order to give expression to those values. Religious schools are a good example of that. Parents send their kids to faith based schools for many reasons. One important reason is that they want to ensure that their children are raised in their faith tradition and according to their values. It's a right that all parents share.</para>
<para>Like any other organisation with a mission, it is vitally important that faith based schools are able to ensure that their staff share the values of the school and are willing and able to teach those values to their students. Not every teacher will want to do this. In a pluralistic society, that's okay. There are lots of other schools where that will not be a problem. But it would be wrong to force a school to hire teachers who do not support, or were unwilling to teach, the values of the school. It would undermine their mission. It would undermine school choice—something that the Liberal and National parties strongly support. Any organisation founded with a purpose deserves that same freedom. It would be equally wrong, for example, to force an LGBTI organisation to employ someone who was opposed to gay rights. The government understands how important this freedom is to faith based schools. We will ensure that this freedom remains protected in Australia.</para>
<para>I want to make one final broader observation about the Ruddock review and the process of addressing concerns Australians have about religious freedom. For some weeks now, people have demanded that the review should be released in full. Then, unfortunately, it appeared in a partial form in the media. The inaccurate reporting we have seen since and the concern that this has created in the community demonstrate exactly why a cautious approach is warranted. This is a complex area of law. It is not easily reduced to a sound bite. It understandably attracts strong views. It's entirely appropriate that the report be released in conjunction with the government response to that report, to ensure that there's no unnecessary panic about what the government might do in responding to that report. That's a process our Attorney-General, Christian Porter, is leading. I have complete confidence in his capacity do so. It would be unwise for any government to rush its response in order to meet on artificial political deadline. The best policy which resolves the sincere hopes and concerns that Australians have about this issue is most likely to come from careful consideration and proper process, not kneejerk responses to media-induced panics.</para>
<para>It's unfortunate that the heat and light of this debate so far has largely been confined to one recommendation. It gives the misleading impression that this is the only area of interest or concern to people of faith when it comes to religious freedom. The truth is that there are much broader and often less contentious areas which are also of very significant importance. We cannot and will not allow this to derail our efforts to better protect religious freedom in Australia. There will be plenty of time for a proper public debate about these broader issues, and the normal government and parliamentary consultation processes, to ensure that all Australians have input into the final outcome. Ultimately, what we seek to do is ensure that all Australians are able to live with dignity and respect according to their own values. That should not be beyond our ability.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In starting my remarks today, I want to reflect on some of the experiences of discrimination and bullying that Australian students in our nation have, unfortunately, experienced. This quote comes from a young trans person:</para>
<quote><para class="block">If my school had been even remotely LGBTIQ-friendly, my entire life would have been different. If it had not been overtly homophobic, even that would have been a good start. But it was not and I had a very rough time and felt there was no way out. Feeling increasingly disconnected with my body and distressed by the way it was changing, in Year 10 I stumbled across a YouTube video of a transgender man and I thought I might have finally found my answer—but I also knew there was little I could do about it. I stopped eating in the hope that I could stop puberty and I was cutting myself. I cried in the back of the classroom each day, but no one noticed. In Year 12, I tried to kill myself for the first time.</para></quote>
<para>When we think about these issues before the parliament today, we need to think of the educational and, even more importantly, very personal outcomes and the wellbeing of children in our nation's schools.</para>
<para>I'm glad that this debate has now come to the fore. It seems that, as Senator Paterson said, the government wants to wait before putting anything substantive on the table—to wait for the Ruddock review to be formally released and to release its legislative response then. On that note, I very much question why, if they want to do this in a holistic, meaningful way, they rushed out their statements regarding the protection of students, frankly, in the context of the Wentworth by-election. The government's reluctance to release the Ruddock review speaks very loudly. You've continued the covering up of the review, and, to my mind, you're trying to keep all bases covered, both the homophobic and transphobic content in the report, perhaps, and the need to keep religious organisations on side. But we now have an opportunity for a mature debate around these issues.</para>
<para>I note the recommendation of the Ruddock review that has been leaked. Notwithstanding the fact that it narrows the grounds for discrimination that schools might seek to apply, it does allow religious schools to continue to discriminate against students. From what I can tell from the recommendations—although we can't see them in their full context—it would allow them to expel students based on their sexuality or gender identity. As I have highlighted with the quotes from the young person that I have quoted today, students should not have to face the brunt of this discrimination based on their gender identity, on their sexuality or on any facet of their identity.</para>
<para>I am pleased that the government has come forward and said it will go further in terms of preventing discrimination against all these young people. Our young people in Australia deserve to have the opportunity to socialise and learn in a school environment without the fear of being discriminated against, without the fear of being bullied or harassed—and they should not be exposed to bullying and bigotry. As the quote I put forward highlights, we know that LGBTIQ children and young people suffer from higher rates of poor mental health and engaging in self-harm. This is due to the bullying they experience and the stigma attached to their sexuality and gender. As the report I quoted from just now highlights, young people themselves say that there's nothing intrinsic about being lesbian, gay or transgender that makes them feel that way; it is the prevailing views of society in regard to the way they present themselves and the stigma and discrimination they receive for their identity. So we have a very important duty of care to protect young people and not expose them to these kinds of harms.</para>
<para>I note that the Ruddock report also wants to provide religious schools with an ongoing ability to discriminate against staff or contractors on the basis of their sexuality or gender identity. Labor does not believe that schools should have an automatic, innate right to do this. An innate attribute should not be a ground for discrimination. I have seen many cases where LGBTIQ teachers have faced hidden and unspoken pressure to hide their sexuality lest they be found out and risk losing their jobs over their identity.</para>
<para>I don't want to see this debate mirror the toxic debate that came with the marriage equality debate. It stirred up a great deal of anxiety for LGBTIQ Australians, for parents and children, about whether we would ever be accepted and when those attacks would end. Happily, with the passing of marriage equality through this parliament, we did make a great step forward and we know very clearly the views of a majority of Australians on these issues.</para>
<para>We know that the Ruddock review was given to the government in May. It is now October. Supposedly, it's been kept from this place because it's covered by cabinet confidentiality, yet the government say cabinet has not even considered it. The Australian public deserve to know what is in that report. Why keep it a secret if it doesn't contain inflammatory and discriminatory content? The timing of the Wentworth by-election suggestions that this is a ploy by government to cling to the majority in their federal seats. You're trying to manage the potential backlash on both sides. Frankly, we just want to see this place have a mature and proper debate about the substantive issues here. Without the leaks from Fairfax we would never have known about these recommendations.</para>
<para>We have a Prime Minister who has ham-fistedly flip-flopped in his response to this report regarding the power religious schools would have to discriminate on the grounds of a student's sexuality or gender identity. The Prime Minister, when first asked about these recommendations, defended them. He defended them by pointing out that there are already existing laws allowing religious schools to turn away LGBTIQ students, and I take great offence at the attacks from those opposite that it was the Labor Party that entrenched this discrimination in the Sex Discrimination Act. These exemptions have existed since the Sex Discrimination Act was first put in place. They didn't exist so that religious schools and other institutions could discriminate against LGBTIQ people, because we weren't even in the act at that time. It was to allow continued discrimination on the basis of marital status, pregnancy and other attributes such as being divorced et cetera. The Prime Minister said nine times that he defended the existing recommendations of the Ruddock review. But I'm very pleased that we have moved on from that, because we don't want to see degrading legislation in our country.</para>
<para>I have to say many states have now moved to prevent discrimination and make it unlawful to allow schools to discriminate on the basis of sexuality or gender. Labor is against discrimination, and our laws should reflect this value. We are a tolerant and accepting nation. Discrimination against LGBTIQ people has no place in our national laws. We are, therefore, also committed to protecting LGBTIQ students and staff from being discriminated against by religious schools. Last year we voted for equality and fairness, not more discrimination. Our laws should apply equally regardless of what your faith is, where you come from or who you love.</para>
<para>I have, over many years, heard very real stories and experiences from LGBTIQ students and students with LGBTIQ parents about the discrimination they have faced in our schools. Let's make it clear: this is not just about the sexuality and gender of young people or the gender identity of children. It is also about the discrimination that young people have suffered because their parents might be trans or their parents might be in a same-sex relationship. I have had friends and family subjected to this kind of discrimination. It has caused great distress, caused significant mental health impacts and, at times, caused young people to leave school and not finish their education, with a lifelong impact on their future. In saying that, I know how real this is. In my own family, I have members who have experienced discrimination way back, a long time ago, in Catholic schools because they had a single mother and they were at a Catholic school. That discrimination then increased when the child turned out to be non-gender conforming and to be a lesbian, and she just didn't fit in with the school. Inevitably, along comes a change in school circumstances; but it has a lifelong impact on people. It undermines their capacity to continue and complete their education.</para>
<para>It has been said that most schools don't actively discriminate. I know of many schools, including religious schools, that have wonderful LGBTIQ inclusion policies and have LGBTIQ students who are very well accepted and supported within that school community. However, it's not the same in all schools, and the fact that schools currently retain the power to discriminate can mean that young people who are having a hard time with bullying don't always come forward to get the support that they need. The quote I started this speech with very firmly illustrates that.</para>
<para>We welcome removing exemptions in relation to children in religious schools, but we are very disappointed that the Prime Minister has rejected our suggestion that we should be removing the exemption for staff. As Labor's shadow assistant minister for equality, as a member of the LGBTIQ community and very much also as a parent who's co-parenting with other LGBTIQ people, I know how important these protections are not only for myself but for my child. I add to the community that no young person should be subjected to discrimination at school. Our children's right to an education must be our first and foremost responsibility. We need strong discrimination laws to ensure equal treatment.</para>
<para>I do acknowledge that this debate has other sides to it. It is about respecting the rights of parents to send children to the school of their choice and to have children educated in accordance with their religious convictions. We want to see young people worrying about their homework not living in fear of mistreatment because of who they are. We want to see Australia's young people protected.</para>
<para>The debate has exposed that there are fundamental rights and freedoms of Australians that are lacking recognition currently. I really want to thank the leadership of Bill Shorten and Tanya Plibersek for bringing forward this debate in relation to the discrimination faced by students and teachers. It is not only for students to be protected from discrimination but also for teachers. I know of too many teachers that have feared for their job security not just because of their LGBTI status but also because they are pregnant and unmarried. These are teachers who have conducted themselves in the school environment within the ethos of the school—totally within the ethos of the school. It just happens that in their personal and private lives they might be LGBTI, they might be unmarried or they might get pregnant outside of marriage, and it causes them great concern for their job security. This should not be the case in today's day and age. People should not have to be secretive about their personal life and identity at school. Work is such a major part of your life. You should not have to hide such fundamental parts of your life for fear of losing your job. These are wonderful teachers, dedicated to their school community, their students and their profession.</para>
<para>All schools need procedures for hiring and firing teachers and maintaining the quality of their teachers. There's a great deal of conduct that our schools cannot and should not tolerate, and the ethos of that kind of conduct will vary from school to school. Schools will have varying policies, and the ethos of each will vary based on its morals and educational ethos. For example, a religious school might need to sack a teacher because they refuse to stop teaching creationism in science classes—it might be outside the school's curriculum—or you might have a Scientologist teacher trying to recruit students at a Catholic school. There's nothing wrong with being a Scientologist or anything else—actually I don't like Scientology much—but if you don't overstep the mark, if you don't bring those attributes to the classroom, then you should stay out of harm's way within the ethos of that school.</para>
<para>There are many much worse ways in which teachers might create very real moral perils for school students. It could be because their conversations with students about sex are too overt, a female teacher talks about being attracted to male students or a teacher talks about, I don't know, visiting a sex worker. There are plenty of things that are morally wrong.</para>
<para>For some schools, promoting something like marriage equality within the school community might very much be outside the ethos of that particular school. But the intrinsic identity of a teacher or a student—who you are as an individual person—should not be grounds for discrimination, dismissal or the need to be performance managed in any way. There are many examples where the conduct of an otherwise good educator might fall outside a school's ethics and ethos. I remember when a male teacher formed a relationship with a female student at a school I attended, and both left the school. I know of an incident where someone I knew was kissed in a state school by a teacher of the same sex at a school formal. I think that at the time the secrecy attached to that teacher's lesbian identity within the school only contributed to her poor behaviour: 'you and me against the world'. If people can't be open about their identity and who they are within a school environment, then that's where risk comes from.</para>
<para>None of these very real moral perils can be dealt with by carve-outs in antidiscrimination law for non-government schools. Schools already need to manage these kinds of workplace and classroom performance issues for students who have teachers with poor boundaries or a poor moral compass or people who actively promote things that are in contradiction with the school's morals and ethics. But what is very clear to me is that the mere fact that someone speaks in an ordinary sense about themselves and their family, if they're acknowledged as being unmarried, divorced, gay, lesbian, transgender, intersex or in a same-sex relationship—that their family and status is known within the school community—should not be grounds for discrimination. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to support the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018. Late last year Australian voters overwhelmingly backed the abolition of laws preventing marriage equality. It was a reminder that on many issues the voters are well ahead of their elected representatives. A few months ago a YouGov Galaxy poll found that 82 per cent of those surveyed opposed laws currently allowing schools to expel students because of their sexual orientation. Nearly as many—79 per cent—opposed the ability of schools to sack teachers if they married people of the same sex. It is another sign that the voters are well in front of their elected representatives. As I've said before, I oppose any moves to increase discrimination against students and teachers based on their sexual orientation, and I am supporting this bill because it seeks to scrap current exemptions allowing some schools to discriminate against students, teachers and other staff on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identification.</para>
<para>This is not a theoretical problem. We have heard today, and I myself am aware, of schools where teachers, even principals, have had to hide their sexual orientation to avoid the sack. These were people who in some cases were committed Christians. These were teachers who were loved by their students and whose teaching and insights are remembered long after by the pupils they taught. This is not acceptable in a nation where gay marriage is now legal. Even so, there are still cases where teachers are being sacked for acknowledging that they are gay. One of these cases, reported by the ABC, involved Craig Campbell, a practising Christian who was employed as a teacher at a Baptist college south of Perth. He had previously been a student at the school, but his employment was terminated last year after he told the school that he was in a same-sex relationship. Speaking to the ABC, Mr Campbell wondered—legitimately, in my view—what existing laws allowing discrimination said about these schools and their attitude to religion. After all, as the Bible states in Paul's letter to the Galatians:</para>
<quote><para class="block">There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Campbell asked:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What's the ultimate goal in not allowing these kids within your school?</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Religious schools, their bigger purpose is to provide environments where kids can interact with their faith and so by excluding the students they lose that opportunity. To me, it seems nonsensical.</para></quote>
<para>I could not agree more. It is beyond time to bring all schools in line with the prohibitions on sexual discrimination that operate elsewhere in society. It is high time that the laws allowing schools to discriminate on the grounds of sexual orientation, gender identification, martial status and pregnancy for students and staff are amended. I do hope that the Senate passes this legislation and that the government has the good sense to allow it to be debated in the other place so that it can become law. We do not want a repeat of the extreme words and actions that arose out of the marriage equality debate last year.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Discrimination Free Schools Bill 2018, a bill put forward by my colleagues from the Greens, and particularly Senator Siewert, that seeks to amend the Sex Discrimination Act and the Fair Work Act. The objective of this bill, as we know, is to ensure that independent schools cannot reject either a student or a teacher based on their sexuality.</para>
<para>It's funny, I was reflecting as I was preparing for this how just over two years ago I came to this place thinking that my most valued and considered contributions would be economic—that I would stand in this place and speak with knowledge, authority and experience on tax, on superannuation, on investments, on banking or on property rights—and I find myself just over two years in, and here I've been talking about same-sex marriage and euthanasia and freedom of speech and now religious freedoms. It has taken me by surprise just how many of these issues have arisen in such a short space of time. I suppose, as a daughter of ageing parents, as a single woman who deals with the prejudices and preconceptions that that itself brings, as a sister of a teacher, and as a mother of school-aged children also on the cusp of adulthood, I find that—like all of us—even on issues in which I never used to think of myself as an expert, I have a contribution to make and a perspective to give. What an extraordinary privilege that is. I was particularly proud to contribute to those debates, and most particularly, I think, the same-sex marriage debate with Senator Smith. Some of those debates were highly emotional and emotive and very personal.</para>
<para>But I am also very proud to contribute to this debate, and I commend the sentiment of this legislation. Let me acknowledge the intent of Senator Siewert and the Greens in bringing this legislation forward today, because, of course, our priority here is children. Acting Deputy President, in approaching a debate such as this, it would be difficult to not first point out the profoundly meaningful statement of Harvey Milk—you will recall he was the first openly gay, publicly elected official in the state of California—who in 1977 said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">All young people, regardless of sexual orientation or identity, deserve a safe and supportive environment in which to achieve their full potential.</para></quote>
<para>I genuinely appreciate the concern we all share for our children; indeed, my concern for my own is never far away. Australia's education system must secure our children from discrimination. That is why the government has worked very effectively already to reach this outcome—because, like Harvey Milk, like the most reasonable and fair-minded citizens, we seek an education system where our young people have the opportunity to reach their full potential. The suggestion otherwise—that they might not be protected—is unacceptable and, indeed, it is unthinkable. We all agree on this, and the suggestion that we don't agree on this is, quite frankly, an insult.</para>
<para>It is imperative to protect children from acceptance or rejection from a school on the basis of their sexuality. Such a notion is out of step with the values of parents, with school communities, with religious communities and with society. As a government, our first responsibility, we must remind ourselves, is to generations to come, and on this we can, mercifully, all agree.</para>
<para>It's worth reflecting on what led us here. The Ruddock review was commissioned by this government to examine where religious freedoms may be limited in contemporary legislation. Many of the arguments regarding the Ruddock review have been well canvassed. It requires re-emphasis, though, to remind the chamber that this was a report to government, not a report by government, that advocates protections for students from discrimination. That report has not yet been released. It has not yet been published. It has not yet been considered by cabinet. I personally haven't read it. What we have seen of the Ruddock review proposes restrictions to the laws introduced by the previous Labor government, which gave religious schools greater ability to expel students where the school considered it was necessary according to the doctrines of the religion in question.</para>
<para>I remind the Senate again that I have not read the Ruddock review in full; however, it is potentially worth drawing the attention of the chamber to recommendation 8, which we have seen published. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Jurisdictions should abolish any exceptions to anti-discrimination laws that provide for discrimination by religious schools with respect to students on the basis of race, disability, pregnancy or intersex status.</para></quote>
<para>Few people would find disagreement with that view because it goes to the heart of ensuring that Australia remains a tolerant and cohesive society, and a cohesive democracy. This government aims to balance the rights between religious freedom and freedom of conscience fairly with the right of our children to be free from discrimination. So let me reiterate my colleague Senator Paterson's sentiments that it's time to consider the report holistically and that's the only responsible response to the Ruddock review.</para>
<para>I'd also like to briefly reflect on the educational environment in Australia. We are so extraordinarily lucky in this country to have the education system that we have, not that it's perfect by any stretch. There is still much work to be done to ensure that our educational standards reflect our prosperity, our opportunity and the modern economy and flourishing democracy that we enjoy. But we are very lucky, largely because we have choice. We have a state education system that guarantees every child a quality education from prep right through to year 12, complimented by an independent education system that provides families with alternatives that better suit their personal priorities, objectives and values. Those schools have different fee structures and are subsidised to better ensure that they are accessible to families and communities that align with them. That choice is a very precious thing; not all countries have it. It is something that we cherish, and it is something that we should continue to nurture. It reflects the fundamental truth that parents and families are the people best placed to make decisions on behalf of their children. Parents know what's best for their children, not government.</para>
<para>As many in the chamber would know and as I mentioned earlier, I have three children—three teenagers all at various stages of adolescence, some of it uglier than others. They are all of school age. Their father and I made the decision a long time ago to send them to an independent school that reflected the values we held dear, and we've been very happy with that decision. The schools they go to are quite old and traditional, but their values are timeless and their attitudes are contemporary. They seek to create an environment of not just tolerance, which is a word I actively dislike—tolerance is something that you have for something you find distasteful or ugly. I prefer that my children's school creates a culture of acceptance and understanding, and values the contribution of every member of that school community. So my boys are at an Anglican school. They have a chapel and they have a chaplain. They also have a gay-straight alliance, which is a senior school student-led group. It works to break down stereotypes and build inclusiveness across peer groups, and that's something I value. Like many other contemporary schools, their faith is quite central to their values, but the school community makes it clear that it appreciates that diverse viewpoints and identities are what connect us all to the lives and experiences of others. They build our capacity for empathy and understanding, and they're what challenge our ideas about people and society, and that's what I want for my children. It may not be for every family. That's fine. That's what choice is all about, and that was the choice for my family. I don't believe it's an ethos that's particularly uncommon in contemporary independent schools.</para>
<para>It is the responsibility of government, however, to protect children, and that is exactly what we're doing. Our government does not support the expulsion of students from religious non-state schools on the basis of their sexuality. That is a view that, as I've said, is widely shared across our country. It is a view that is in line with community expectations. As a government, we are taking actions to ensure that amendments are introduced as soon as practicable to make it clear that no student of a non-state school should be expelled on the basis of their sexuality. Prime Minister Scott Morrison has been unequivocal that we are here to ensure children are at the centre of our considerations of these issues. The law that we currently have, which the Labor Party brought in, doesn't do that.</para>
<para>There are wider implications which I wouldn't mind talking through in a little more detail. With the media attention and sensationalism around this topic we seem to have glossed over the reality that religious schools are not campaigning for the freedom to expel students on the basis of sexuality; in fact they have come out in support of amendments to protect against such a thing, rejecting the efforts of certain members of this parliament to sensationalise for their own political agenda, a very disappointing behaviour indeed. Let's imagine in some alternative universe that schools had the luxury of pondering on the sexuality of their students rather than focusing on delivering quality education. Let's imagine that teachers and even principals were out there expelling students willy-nilly on this basis and no other. Do members here genuinely believe the wider school community would accept this? Of course not. Would Australians accept this? Of course they wouldn't. There would be complete and utter outrage, and rightly so. We won't support the politicisation of our school students and we won't allow the Greens to make this an issue. We won't allow them to try to pit Australians against each other.</para>
<para>Independent and religious schools receive public funding and as such have a responsibility to operate in line with community and legal expectations, and they do. The gap in this legislation can be dealt with quickly and effectively, and that's what we will do. I am very proud of the fact that we're working constructively for our children on this issue, because we have that responsibility to determine the boundary to protect our most vulnerable. We have a responsibility to ensure legal protections are in place that protect children from any type of discrimination in a world that's becoming increasingly polarised. I need not labour the point that many children are struggling with their sexual identity and often face incredible pressures and even sometimes violence. Some may not even know that they face this as a result of sexuality, and they face unsafe and unsupportive environments that are confusing and quite traumatic. It would be unthinkable that this government or any would allow this to continue. That's why we're taking the steps that we are taking to end the right of any school to discriminate against students.</para>
<para>This is a consensus that we have reached. It is unfortunate that the Greens persist in waging a divisive campaign of identity politics. It is also our duty to respect parental choice. This is particularly important. The legislation that we have before us today seeks to go further than just protecting children; it seeks to compel religious schools to either hire or not release teachers who may not adhere to the religious values of that school. Let me go back to my own children's experience. There are so many different types of schools with hundreds of variations represented, but every school wants the same thing from their staff: passionate teachers that share the school's values and are committed to shaping students' futures, preparing our children for fulfilling and meaningful lives in which they are able to make a contribution. I know that my children's school, an Anglican school that values its faith and religion, has a number of teachers that would identify as LGBTIQ. That made no difference to my children's quality of education. Indeed sometimes I believe it may well have enhanced it.</para>
<para>I know that the call to protect teachers comes from a good place, and again I tip my hat to the Greens. I know their intentions here are good if not a little bit politically opportunistic, but teachers are adults, and they choose to work at the workplaces they do, where their values are reflected and their skill sets are valued. School communities are made up of adults who choose their teachers based on their values and skill sets, and teachers are adults who make that choice as well. This legislation treats both teachers and school communities not like the adults that they are but like the children that they teach, in need of protection by the state through rules set out by those who know better. I object to that patronising assumption that, without this legislation, suddenly LGBTIQ teachers will be persecuted or at risk, and that, unless the government and Big Brother comes in and prevents it, schools and school communities who today have shown no signs of discrimination in the hiring and firing of staff and value their teachers for the skills that they bring will suddenly tomorrow become laden with prejudice and intolerance, in need of laws to restrain their newly discovered bigotry and homophobia. As Liberals, we are always reluctant to legislate for a problem that doesn't exist. I am genuinely concerned that this is one of those times.</para>
<para>More importantly, though, I object to the implication in part of this legislation that there is an us-and-them mentality, that Australia is divided somehow into those who are tolerant and those who are waiting on the opportunity to persecute those of whom they disapprove. I have a much higher opinion of the common sense of school communities, religious groups and, indeed, all Australians than do my colleagues in the Greens. The government's position is that we need not conflate protecting young children from expulsion with the employment practices of adults. That conflation is opportunistic, it is intolerant and it is contemptuous.</para>
<para>The Ruddock review still hasn't been made public. It hasn't been considered appropriately by cabinet and, when it is considered, we will make recommendations in an objective and fulsome manner. The government will then choose which recommendations it agrees with and which it does not and it will act accordingly. It is not unreasonable, as the coalition asks, that we are given appropriate time and space in which to do this. Australians hold their freedoms very dear, whether it be freedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of the press or freedom to pursue the faith of their choice without retribution or obstruction. Legislating for or against freedoms is not something that should ever be done lightly, hastily or thoughtlessly or, dare I say, motivated solely politically.</para>
<para>My personal position is that teachers play such an important role in the lives of our children. They are educators, they are the tough cop on the beat and they are boundary setters, role models, mentors and inspirations. They are the bows from which are children, as living arrows, are sent forth. A person's sexuality should not be a consideration when judging somebody's moral worth. On this, we can agree. And, on this, independent schools already agree. Protecting our children is a clear responsibility of government and, indeed, it is a responsibility of society as a whole. The government is taking action to ensure that there are amendments introduced to the Sex Discrimination Act as soon as possible to make it clear that no student of a non-state school should be expelled on the basis of their sexuality. The Attorney-General is preparing those amendments right now, and the opposition will be consulted as a part of that process.</para>
<para>There are plenty of issues in this place on which our politicians across the divide disagree.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the debate has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>90</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration</title>
          <page.no>90</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>91</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Employment References Committee</title>
          <page.no>91</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>91</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report of the Education and Employment References Committee on industrial deaths in Australia, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This is an important report on industrial manslaughter. In tabling this report, I'd like to acknowledge the many families that are here in the public gallery today. These families are here because someone they loved dearly was killed at work and never came home. These families have travelled here at their own expense from all over Australia, including New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and Western Australia. They are here because they do not want other families to experience the suffering that they have. They are here because they are demanding change. Like all the families who participated in this inquiry, they have endured and are still enduring immense pain, anguish, grief and anger. The human impact of an industrial death is catastrophic and far reaching. For the families and friends of those individuals killed at work, the terrible and profound human cost and associated consequences they must suffer are lifelong and often all-consuming. The committee is keenly aware that the retelling of traumatic experience takes an emotional and physical toll. On behalf of my fellow committee members, I sincerely thank all the families for their courage and strength in sharing their stories and concerns, which have informed our deliberations on this very important topic.</para>
<para>I'd particularly like to acknowledge the advocacy of Mrs Kay Catanzariti, who is here in the gallery today. Kay's 21-year-old son Ben was tragically killed on a Canberra construction site in 2012. Kay has been tireless in her campaign to raise awareness of the issues impacting families with loved ones who never came home from work. Her lobbying efforts were instrumental in the referral of this inquiry, and she is highly committed to seeking legislative and regulatory change to improve the frameworks surrounding industrial deaths. I applaud her determination and strength in speaking out.</para>
<para>Safe Work advises that, as of 4 October, there have been 97 Australian workers killed at work in 2018. This is unacceptable. These workers and the thousands of workers killed before them did not go to war; they simply went to work. Every single workplace death is preventable. No-one should go to work and not come home. It is unacceptable that a rise in precarious employment practices and the pursuit by many companies of profit at any cost has led, in too many instances, to a corporate culture with a reckless disregard for the welfare of workers. We need to change the way workers are treated. Workers should never be treated as mere disposable assets. Workers must be treated with a proper regard for their workplace rights and safety. During the course of this inquiry, it became clear that the current legislative regulatory framework for dealing with workplace deaths is grossly inadequate.</para>
<para>Employers that disregard the risks to the lives of their workers and whose conduct negligently causes the death of a worker must be held responsible for such destructive behaviour. It is absolutely necessary for corporate entities to be held accountable for their actions, including facing prosecution for industrial manslaughter for the worst examples of corporate or individual behaviour. For those organisations that wilfully flout the existing work health and safety arrangements and whose actions result in a catastrophic outcome of loss of life, it is entirely warranted that serious consequences flow. This is particularly the case in organisations which are considered to be repeat offenders. This is why the committee recommends that Safe Work Australia, with the Commonwealth, state and territory governments, introduces a nationally consistent industrial manslaughter offence into the model work health and safety laws, using the current Queensland laws as a starting point. We believe that the offence of industrial manslaughter will send a clear message about the Australian community's expectations of safety in the workplace. Corporations must be held accountable both morally and legally. Where appropriate, the corporate veil must be pierced.</para>
<para>Another matter raised during the inquiry relating to the accountability of corporations was the existence of insurance policies designed to indemnify corporations and individual directors against financial penalties handed down for criminal breaches of the work health and safety legislation. Companies that take out this directors and officers insurance show an inexcusable disregard for the consequences of their actions. This behaviour in itself is reprehensible. Given that the prospect of personal liability for work health and safety breaches is one of the core drivers for the improvement of corporate safety culture, the committee has concluded that there is an urgent need to resolve this issue. The committee recommends that the model work health and safety legislation be swiftly amended to make it clear that contracts which purport to offer insurance against criminal penalties are unenforceable and illegal.</para>
<para>During the inquiry, the committee was disappointed to hear that investigations into industrial deaths were often compromised in terms of the duration of the investigation, the quality of the investigation process and some investigators' attitudes towards the investigation itself.</para>
<para>I draw a comparison between the way an industrial death is investigated and the way a road vehicle accident death is investigated. The road vehicle accident death is treated as a crime scene and the incident is investigated on the basis that it may lead to criminal charges. The life of a worker is no less precious during their working hours than it is during their commute to work, yet evidence provided to the committee indicates that such a rigorous and professional investigative approach is not equally applied to industrial deaths.</para>
<para>The committee finds it imperative that the work health and safety regulators and law enforcement agencies undertaking the investigation of an industrial death do so with the correct attitude—that is, that the death they are investigating is potentially a criminal matter, not merely an accident.</para>
<para>This is why the committee recommends that Safe Work Australia work with work health and safety regulators in each jurisdiction to develop a policy that stipulates that all industrial deaths must be investigated as a potential crime scene.</para>
<para>The committee also recommends that Safe Work Australia work with the Commonwealth, state and territory governments and work health and safety regulators to develop and deliver standardised training modules for investigators. The committee hopes this will ensure all investigators have the appropriate skills, experience and attitude to carry out timely, high-quality investigations of industrial deaths and other serious breaches of work health and safety laws.</para>
<para>Throughout this inquiry the committee heard many compelling stories from families forced to navigate the myriad of complex formal processes that follow an industrial death, all while dealing with overwhelming grief and other mental, physical and financial burdens.</para>
<para>Guided by these insights, the committee is making a number of recommendations aimed at improving the system for families. For example, the committee is recommending that Safe Work Australia work with the work health and safety regulators in each jurisdiction to identify and formalise family outreach mechanisms so that all impacted families are provided with the information and support they require in a timely manner. The committee is also recommending that each jurisdiction make funding available for a range of mental health and counselling support options, including in rural and regional areas.</para>
<para>I am hopeful that, if implemented, these and other recommended measures will lead to greater support and transparency for these families who, through no fault of their own, find themselves in incredibly distressing and difficult circumstances.</para>
<para>This has been a comprehensive inquiry and the committee has made 34 recommendations. I would urge governments and policymakers to look carefully at the committee's recommendations and to consider seriously their implementation. Change is required so that no worker goes to work in Australia and then does not come home.</para>
<para>I would like to once again thank all the individuals, families and organisations who assisted the committee during this inquiry. I would also like to thank my colleagues on their committee for their work over the past seven months. I would also like to give my very genuine thanks to the committee secretariat staff for again assisting in putting together what I think is a comprehensive and high-quality report. I now commend this report to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As Deputy Chair of the Education and Employment References Committee I rise to briefly add some remarks on the same committee report. I certainly wish to associate myself with the remarks of Senator Marshall vis-a-vis the extraordinary work put in by the secretariat and by all our colleagues who participated in the inquiry. I have recently been appointed as deputy chair, so I was not participating throughout this inquiry. I only came along to the last hearing once I had joined the committee. But, from reading the transcripts of what had transpired beforehand, you certainly get a very strong sense that the situations that were being investigated and looked at by the committee were deeply, deeply harrowing for the families involved. Losing a loved one in an industrial accident is always going to be a tragedy, and nothing can help those people overcome that loss.</para>
<para>But I do wish to acknowledge all the work that went into the committee report. I thank the secretariat and thank all my fellow committee members. The report and its findings are an important step forward in the area of workplace health and safety. Workplace related injuries and illness carry significant tangible costs to the community, individuals, family, workmates and workplaces. The health and safety of workers is of the utmost importance to all, particularly the prevention of serious injuries and deaths in Australian workplaces. It has to be a fundamental objective of Australian safety laws and associated frameworks to ensure that all workers come home safely after every day at work.</para>
<para>The inquiry has taken into consideration extensive evidence from a wide range of sources and witnesses, including many of those who have lost loved ones. We have listened carefully to the evidence by family members, colleagues and friends of those who have died, and we thank them for their courage in sharing their stories and experiences. Their willingness to share these very painful experiences has been critical in helping our understanding of the importance of support for victims' families, and that I think is one of the key sets of recommendations to come out of this report.</para>
<para>There were a diverse range of views and approaches presented on the adequacy of the current framework surrounding prevention, investigation and prosecution of industrial deaths in Australia. Whilst coalition senators support many of the recommendations in the report, there are some that we support in part and there are others that we are not able to support. We believe that the key here is to have the most effective policy response to achieve the best outcome. And more Commonwealth law is not always the way to do that, particularly when you're looking at an ongoing harmonisation of a series of state jurisdictions where the states have significant responsibilities in this area.</para>
<para>It is also worth noting that we have seen a reduction in industrial deaths in workplace fatalities over the last decade. Yes, absolutely, any death is one death too many, but it is at least a positive to say that workplace fatalities have fallen by 50 per cent over that period of time.</para>
<para>Again, I wish to thank all my colleagues, but most particularly I wish to thank all those who gave evidence to the inquiry, particularly those who lost a loved one in an industrial accident. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Every family should expect that their loved ones return home at the end of their shift or at the end of their day's work, but for the families of approximately 200 workers in Australia each year this doesn't happen. The impact of a death at work is devastating for families and it's devastating for the wider community and the economy as well.</para>
<para>The committee heard from parents, children, partners and loved ones, and I've got to say at times it was hard to listen, but I felt very privileged that the people, the witnesses, many of whom are up in the gallery today, gave that evidence to us. I felt very privileged to be on that committee and to be able to hear that evidence, because it's not easy to do—it's not easy to stand up and talk to someone about the grief you're feeling. For them to have done that is just so highly commendable. But we can and we must do better, and we know that.</para>
<para>While I remember, I'd also like to thank the secretariat involved in this committee, because I don't think it was easy for them to sit and hear the evidence every day either, and they did such a sterling effort, as they always do.</para>
<para>This committee report makes 34 recommendations, which the committee believes will make workplaces across the country safer. As Senator Marshall said, the report was quite extensive, so today I'll only have the time to address a few of the issues raised. The committee held eight public hearings across Australia, including in Hobart in my home state of Tasmania. From evidence given by the ETU at the Tasmania hearing we know that Tasmania has the second highest fatality rate in the country, behind the Northern Territory, and nearly double the third highest jurisdictions of Queensland and Western Australia. We have to ask why the rates are so high in Tasmania. Tasmania has the highest rates of fatalities in agriculture, forestry and fishing as well as in the public sector. So I would urge the Commonwealth and the Tasmanian governments to work together in ending this human tragedy.</para>
<para>Nationwide in 2016 almost 70 per cent of worker fatalities occurred in just three industries: the transport, postal and warehousing industries, with 47 fatalities. There were 44 worker fatalities in the agricultural, forestry and fishing industries and 35 worker fatalities in the construction industry. Of course, some occupations, like truck driving, are particularly dangerous, and I spoke earlier today with regard to that.</para>
<para>In their submission to the committee, the Transport Workers' Union quoted Professor Ann Williamson as saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Heavy trucks are disproportionately involved in fatal crashes on our roads and the trucking industry represents the highest number of work related fatalities across all industries in Australia.</para></quote>
<para>Their submission went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">During the 12 months to the end of March 2008, 184 people were killed in 163 fatal crashes involving heavy trucks, with fatal crashes involving heavy rigid trucks increasing.</para></quote>
<para>Any truck driver or TWU official knows of the high rate of industrial deaths in that industry. One of the truck drivers, John Waltis, told the committee in Sydney:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I've been in the industry for over 40 years and, yes, we had accidents back in the early days, 40-odd years ago, but nowhere near as many as what we're having now, and it is because of the undue pressure put on the drivers through the corporations or the companies they subcontract to do the work.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I have known of over 50 deaths in the industry because I've been in it such a long time. I don't want to see one more.</para></quote>
<para>I too share that belief about too many truck drivers dying on the road, and I don't think the government's done enough to reduce that tragic statistic. While some Safe Work Australia figures argue that the number of industrial deaths in Australia is declining, even one work related death is one too many, and these figures aren't declining fast enough.</para>
<para>We're also seeing many deaths occurring due to occupational exposure to substances that result in industrial diseases which ultimately lead to the workers' deaths, such as asbestosis, mesothelioma and black lung disease. A witness at the Hobart hearing, Trevor Gauld, from the Electrical Trades Union, outlined why he felt the Safe Work Australia figures were misleading. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">What we're seeing is latent illnesses; cancer clusters and these sorts of things—long-term exposures to chemicals. It's different industries. For whatever reason, as you're aware, Senator, your government did the things it did around manufacturing and we have less of that now. So it's a different risk profile. I think what the statistics show is that change; they don't show a decline.</para></quote>
<para>He also said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's not that I don't accept the figures; I just think that they mischaracterise the circumstances. We have a significant increase in the change of the modes of employment, for example, and the way that that might get counted, as opposed to someone being deemed an employee or not deemed an employee. We also have issues around the way Safe Work Australia captures that data. All the jurisdictions don't feed the same data in. So what's classed as a workplace fatality in one jurisdiction isn't necessarily classed as a workplace fatality in the Safe Work Australia statistical data capture—the datasets that they gather.</para></quote>
<para>Given that, the committee recommends that Safe Work Australia expand the work-related traumatic injury fatalities dataset to capture data on deaths resulting from industrial diseases.</para>
<para>One of the issues that challenge employers, employees and unions alike is that there are variances in work health and safety laws across jurisdictions. While Australia has a set of model work health and safety laws developed in 2011 by Safe Work Australia, they have not been implemented in Victoria and Western Australia. The aim of the work health and safety model laws is to provide all workers in Australia with the same standard of health and safety protection regardless of the work they do or where they work. The model work health and safety laws comprise the Model Work Health and Safety Act, the Model Work Health and Safety Regulations and the model codes of practice. In addition, a state or territory can also elect to amend the model laws as they apply in their own jurisdictions. Given this situation, the committee recommends that Safe Work Australia maintain a public list of amendments that jurisdictions make to the model work health and safety laws.</para>
<para>One of the first things you need to improve a situation is data that accurately reflects what is happening. The committee found that Safe Work Australia data in relation to compliance enforcement activity does not reflect the prosecution outcomes for industrial deaths, which are a smaller but unqualified subset of disaggregated work health and safety data. The committee is of the strong opinion that Safe Work Australia must work with each jurisdiction to collect and maintain a dataset with more detailed information on the prosecution processes and outcomes of industrial death incidents.</para>
<para>The changing nature of work is having a dramatic and negative impact on the safety of work. The committee heard that the rise of precarious employment practices had led to a corporate culture where there is a distinct lack of care for the safety of workers. Maurice Blackburn, in their submission, detailed the situation:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Over the past two decades, business operators have continued to find new ways to avoid their responsibilities under Fair Work legislation and other legal and regulatory structures, including WHS and workers’ compensation frameworks. ‘Gig economy’, sham contract and labour hire arrangements require the service provider to be a self-employed independent contractor, rather than an employee, thereby abrogating the business operators of employer responsibilities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">…   …   …</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By insisting that people who work for them be self-employed independent contractors, business operators avoid having to take responsibility for the provision of safety nets that Australians have come to expect, including the right to be safe at work.</para></quote>
<para>The committee is persuaded by the evidence that there are negative safety implications relating to the increased use of temporary and labour hire workers and other forms of precarious work. Additionally, the committee agrees that the rise of such precarious employment practices has led in some instances to a corporate culture where there exists a distinct lack of care for the safety of the worker.</para>
<para>Although nothing will bring back those who have lost their lives or even ease the heartbreak, the committee made a number of recommendations to improve the use of compliance and enforcement tools and penalties for breaches of work health and safety laws, which can vary greatly from state to state. And we have to ask: why is a life in one state or territory worth more than in another state? As I mentioned at the beginning of my contribution, the report and the recommendations are too long to cover in their entirety in the short time allocated to me, but the gist of the report is this: too many Australians are dying at work. We can and we must do better as a nation.</para>
<para>As an aside, this morning I met a young lad whose name is Charlie. Charlie was up in the gallery a minute ago. Charlie is 16 months old, and I was devastated to hear, when I was talking to Charlie's mum, that Charlie's grandad died six months ago, as an industrial death. I have thought all afternoon about what Charlie will miss out on by not having his grandad around. He won't have his grandad at his birthday parties or at Christmas time. He won't have his grandad to share all those special moments that grandads share. I say to Charlie's family and to all the other witnesses up in the gallery: we can't quite feel your pain, of course, but we do really want to make a difference. I think that this committee has worked really hard to come up with recommendations that will make a difference.</para>
<para>We've got the report. It's now up to the Commonwealth government and governments around the nation to adopt its recommendations. It's the least that we can do and the least that we owe those hundreds of Australians who die at work unnecessarily each year.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise on behalf of the Greens to speak on the report on the inquiry into the prevention, investigation and prosecution of industrial deaths in Australia. This inquiry was much needed because the safety of our workers is of utmost importance. We really must have zero tolerance for work related deaths. I started my working life as a civil and structural engineer, so I do know firsthand the dangers that lurk on construction sites, which are among the deadliest sites for workers. There is absolutely no excuse for employers to not provide a safe workplace and there should be zero tolerance for negligent behaviour on worksites. It is quite apt, I must say, that the committee is handing down its report during National Safe Work Month, but, of course, safety should be a priority not just in October but every single day.</para>
<para>The Australian Greens do welcome the inquiry and support the recommendations made by the committee. Most importantly, this report is a move towards creating a new offence for industrial manslaughter, which has long been Greens policy. Grieving families and friends have long demanded this change, and it gives me hope when I see the other political parties also becoming receptive to this. As a general principle, the Greens have a preference for a model that puts industrial manslaughter into the Crimes Act. But, through this inquiry, I also note the broad support for the Queensland model, and the Greens welcome moves to have this extended throughout Australia.</para>
<para>Another very important aspect of this issue is how industrial deaths are actually defined. The definition needs to be broadened to include all work related deaths, not just traumatic fatalities. This includes, in particular, deaths caused by work related diseases, which the recommendations address, and suicides should also be covered. This would much more accurately reflect the impact on workers and would allow their families to access appropriate remedies. Consideration of workers who die by suicide, particularly after poor handling of compensation claims, is also currently inadequate and should be addressed in any new reforms.</para>
<para>Further, there is also a very strong case for the collection of data and statistics regarding industrial deaths. The statistics we get from Safe Work Australia, as has been said earlier, do not accurately reflect the scale of work related deaths that actually occur in Australia. The Australian Council of Trade Unions raised these concerns with the committee, saying the current state of our data continues to result in an underestimation of the true extent of work related deaths, including those arising from work related diseases. The fact of the matter is that any work related death should not only be counted but also be completely unacceptable.</para>
<para>With respect to recommendation 31 regarding the establishment of pro bono legal assistance to families during coronial inquests, we think this should be extended to include 'and any other assistance deemed necessary'. We are aware of cases where even accessing inquests has been particularly difficult, because of financial constraints, for example.</para>
<para>This inquiry was nearing its end when I joined the Senate. But, in my brief participation in the inquiry, I met with Ms Robyn Colson, whose 24-year-old son, David James Colson, was killed in a workplace incident on 8 October 2007. This month marks 11 years since Ms Colson lost her son—a tragedy, the scale of which, of course, is unimaginable to anyone who has not gone through something like this. David was an abalone diver in Tasmania. However, on this particular day, he was working as a deckhand for another abalone diver. Ms Colson told us at the inquiry hearing:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The boat he was working on sank and he swam for 5½ hours before dying of hypothermia. He was a wonderful person who did not deserve to have his life stolen from him. Losing a child this way is unlike any other type of grief and it is permanent. A part of our soul is missing. We live a divided life: the time before the workplace accident and the time after.</para></quote>
<para>This is heartbreaking, but what happened next didn't make it any easier on the Colson family. The coronial inquest into David's death took so long that the family could never bring criminal charges, as the limitation period for prosecutions had expired. This is quite an unacceptable situation and further highlights the inadequacy of our work health and safety laws. Other families also spoke about coronial inquests taking a long time and extending their anguish, with no answers at hand and no-one held responsible.</para>
<para>I do hope the government adopts all the recommendations of this report, but, more importantly, that they implement them speedily and act on them. The friends and families of people whose loved ones have suffered industrial deaths want the government to make strong reforms and make them now. Some of them are here today in this chamber, and I welcome them here. It was my absolute privilege to meet them earlier this afternoon, and I thank them for the immense amount of courage and strength that they have shown to push for workplace safety reforms so that no-one else has to go through the trauma and heartbreak that they have.</para>
<para>For the families, friends and loved ones of those people who have been killed at work or who have died as a result of workplace related disease and suicide, the heartbreak, pain and anguish are lifelong realities. This inquiry and the resulting recommendations are a welcome step in fixing our laws. It is also important that adequate funding and resources are directed towards work health and safety regulators, who can then ensure compliance and allow for more effective preventative measures to be put in place, because our aim should be absolutely zero work related deaths. Every worker has a right to a safe workplace, and they deserve to come back home safe, healthy and well from work.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator O'NEILL</name>
    <name.id>140651</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make my contribution on the arrival in this chamber of this very significant report on industrial deaths. I acknowledge those who have travelled here, physically, from New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and as far away as Western Australia, but the journeys that you've undertaken with your bodies are nothing in comparison to the journeys of the heart that you're undertaking right now.</para>
<para>I want to particularly acknowledge one woman who's sitting up there, Mrs Kay Catanzariti, who, in a great leap of hope in a time when politics is treated in our media and in our society as an instrument that can deliver nothing except conflict, contacted Senator Marshall, a Labor senator from the great state of Victoria—not as great as New South Wales, of course, but he had an open heart, open ears and a willingness to work on this issue, which has plagued this nation for far too long.</para>
<para>We heard from Senator Bilyk that 200-plus people die per year. As one of the parents said earlier today in a meeting that we had at nine o'clock in Bill Shorten's office, 'Australians accept deaths in the workplace.' That is a chilling sentence, and we can no longer allow that culture to prevail. That is what this report is addressing—that cultural reality that we live with today.</para>
<para>You are here today as citizens in a democracy making history. You're in a historic building. I know that you just think you're ordinary Australians, but this is what's great about this country. Ordinary Australians, when we stand up for what we believe in and fight for what's right, can do amazing things. You've already done amazing things, and now we will try to do our best with what you have given us.</para>
<para>Words matter. It will surprise you, as it often surprises me, that across this nation right now there will be hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people who are listening as they're driving home from work—happily, I hope—to their families, and they'll hear what we're doing here. So today, in preparing my speech for this moment, I thought: what words could I say? We talk about the work ahead of us, and I acknowledge the great contributions of the senators who have spoken here before me this evening, but I'm going to do what I can to get as many of your words on the record as possible, because they were so powerful. I'm sure some of you sat in English classes and thought you'd never have the gift of the gab and you'd never say things that would matter, but I'm going to try to read as much as I can of what you gave us into the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record to be part of the history of this nation, because you've done something very powerful and significant by participating in this inquiry and bringing it to be. Mr Jack Brownlee was killed at work in 2018, aged 21. Dave and Janine Brownlee, his mum and dad, are here. Mr Dave Brownlee, I bet you don't even remember what you said, but this is just a bit of what you put on the record, and it was pretty amazing, because truth has a voice:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm here with my wife and also representing my two sons, Mitchell Brownlee and Jack Brownlee. Jack was 21 years old, and he will always be 21 years old. He will never age. He went to work on 21 March and was caught in a trench collapse that covered the boy up to his neck, with one arm free. About 9.30 on that day was the last time they—</para></quote>
<para>Jack and his co-worker Charlie Howkins—</para>
<quote><para class="block">were seen and they weren't found until 11.30. They weren't rescued until 2.30. In the first two hours, Jack would have had the most horrific time. His mate—</para></quote>
<para>Charlie Howkins, Lana Cormie's husband—</para>
<quote><para class="block">was dead beside him, metres away.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Jack would have been screaming for help, and the other boys were at smoko. They were left on their own. There was no supervision of these boys. There was nothing. At the time, I was at the hospital with my wife, who was suffering severe migraines. We received no phone call from the company until 5.30 that afternoon.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Beforehand, I had a friend who worked in Geelong. He rang me and informed me. Things were on Facebook about a trench collapse in Ballarat and he thought our son Jack was involved. I raced up there to the site and was met at the roadblock by the police. We weren't allowed in. Jack had just been evacuated, they said, and they were putting him in an induced coma. I was informed by the police that the best thing to do was to hightail down to Melbourne and meet him at the hospital. We still had not heard from the company.</para></quote>
<para>This is an excerpt of what Mrs Janine Brownlee said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The hardest thing for us was to leave our son and drive home. The hardest thing was to drive there in the first place, getting updates telling us, 'Hurry up. Your son mightn't make it.' And then the hardest thing was to drive home the next day, leaving our boy at the hospital. That was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do: knowing he was there on his own; leaving my baby there … Things need to change. How we were treated was so wrong.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Charlie Howkins was killed at work in 2018, aged 34. His wife is here, Dr Lana Cormie. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I am a doctor of veterinary science and I am married to Charlie Howkins, who was a registered building practitioner and worked in civil construction at the time of his death. I am—and we were—parents to two small children: Sophie, who is four, and George, who is one year old. Charlie went to work one day in March and he never came home. He became just another of the dead bodies which are carried out of a workplace every second day in Australia. Words simply cannot do justice to the devastation which has followed. His death is a result of a failure in the culture, values, systems and laws of our country. What is left in the wake of this failure is our broken family.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Robert Cunico was killed at work in 2018, aged 60. Robert's daughter, Ms Ashlea Castle, is here and so is his wife, Debby Cunico. Ms Castle said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My dad lived for almost an hour in the most horrific conditions while being cradled in the arms of a colleague before succumbing to his injuries. Despite the efforts made by the first responders and emergency services, his injuries were so catastrophic that he was never going to survive. My father should never have sustained even a paper cut whilst he was on the job, let alone injuries so severe that his life was ended. My dad was a son, a brother, a husband, a father, a grandfather, an uncle and a friend to many.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Luke Murrie was killed at work in 2007, aged 22. Luke's parents, Mark and Janice Murrie, are here. Mr Murrie said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Luke was 22 when he was killed. He was killed in an unsafe work environment where inexperienced workers were instructed to do an unsafe lift. The unsafe method was quicker and therefore it was cheaper. There was no meaningful deterrent for the employer to do it safely. He put the dollar before safety.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Ben Catanzariti was killed at work in 2012, aged 21. His parents, Kay and Barney, are here today. Kay said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I'm here today not by choice. I'm here because my son Ben, who was 21 years old … was killed when a 39-metre, three-tonne concrete boom collapsed and crushed his skull in 2012. You senators have chosen this career to represent the Australian people first and foremost, to listen and to protect all Australians and take responsibility for their health and wellbeing in our ever-changing world, and we need to unite regardless of which party we belong to. We are all the same. We are human beings. We have the right to live our lives without fear of going to work and not coming home.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Jason Garrels was killed at work in 2012, aged 20. Jason's parents, Michael and Lee Garrels, are here. Lee said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My son Jason Garrels aged 20 was fatally electrocuted on the 27th February 2012 in Clermont, Queensland. My son was employed as a labourer for approx 9 days with Daytona Trading Pty Ltd … I went to assist at the resuscitation not knowing it was my son. Words cannot describe the impact that it has had on me and my family; I was thrown into a life that was a surreal nightmare which became my reality.</para></quote>
<para>I want to acknowledge: Mr Glen Biddle, killed at work in 2007, aged 39, and his sister Shauna; Iremar Moussa, killed at work in 2016, aged 55, and wife Linda; Mr Jarrod Hampton—Troy and Robert Hampton are here today; Mr Daniel Bradshaw, killed at work in 2017, aged 37; Mr Jayden Zappelli, killed at work in 2013, aged 18, and his father, Greg; Mr Chris Patrick, killed at work in 2014, aged 25, and his partner, Christiana Paterson. Thank you for coming to be here today for the reception of this report. Thank you for your work as Australians. We honour you and we'll do what we can.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I was not intending to speak on this report. I happen to be here for chamber duty. But listening to those very forceful contributions from senators, I thought that as a former national union official and someone who has witnessed workers being killed and who had to talk to their families I just had to say a few things about this report on industrial deaths in Australia. Firstly, I thank those senators involved in the report and those senators who have contributed to what should be significant changes to protect workers at work in this country. I also acknowledge the families who are here and thank them for being here and for their involvement and support for the inquiry.</para>
<para>Senator Brockman spoke about statistics. I don't think anyone really sees a worker who is maimed, injured or killed at work as simply a statistic. As Senator O'Neill said, they're a father, a brother, a sister, a grandfather, a husband or a wife. They're a friend. This is just a terrible situation. And I know that we talk about statistics a lot in this place. But I don't think Senator Brockman should have been quoting statistics at such a time. It's a terrible situation that families find themselves in. One death is one death too many. One death means that a family is in grief, that a family has lost a loved one, that a family's life is changed forever. It's just unacceptable in a modern society that people who profit from the labour of working class Australians are not held accountable for the death of that worker and the tragedy that it brings on individual families and communities around this country.</para>
<para>The last time I spoke in this place about a worker being killed was in relation to a young man who was killed at the Barangaroo ferry hub, Mr Tim Macpherson—a young man with a young family, his whole life before him, with a fantastic wife and a young family—just taken from us because he was unlucky enough to be working on a rust bucket barge that shouldn't have been in New South Wales. It came down from Queensland and didn't have the proper certificates to undertake that journey. The health and safety on that barge were poor, the conditions were terrible and Tim ended up dead—unacceptable.</para>
<para>The union movement have been calling for industrial manslaughter laws in this country for I think longer than the Greens have even been a party. I remember having these debates over 20 years ago in my union, the AMWU. These calls grew even louder when we saw the behaviour of James Hardie when they knew that their product was killing their employees. James Hardie covered it up, James Hardie made huge profits and James Hardie did that with impunity. If ever there was a reason, regardless of all the other families that have suffered terribly, James Hardie on their own should have been enough in this country to hold businesses accountable for their lack of concern and their breaches of safety against working people in this country.</para>
<para>I remember the then state secretary of the AMWU—Paul Bastian, a great Australian and a great trade unionist—going over to Holland and chasing James Hardie, who were moving their business headquarters around the world to try to avoid their responsibility for working people in this country. Paul Bastian did a great job, supported by Greg Combet. The union movement and the ACTU did a fantastic job. I remember the coalition and John Howard opposing the ban on the importation of asbestos in this country. I remember watching a great mate of mine—the former president of the AMWU, Brian Fraser, who was a big, six-foot-plus Irishman—dying with mesothelioma. He couldn't grab a breath. The companies and the insurance companies tried to avoid any responsibility. We had deathbed hearings to deal with it. Workers don't get a fair go in this country. Employers get it far too easy when it comes to workplace deaths.</para>
<para>I do want to acknowledge Senator Williams. Senator Williams was a farmer. Senator Williams knows what happens to farmers in this country and to workers in the farming sector. It is one of the most dangerous industries in the country. I was fortunate enough for Senator Williams to support me when I was arguing for the National Workers Memorial, which has been built in Canberra with the support of Senator Williams. We can build as many memorials as we like, but it is important to recognise the symbolic importance of the workers who built this country. We had memorials for everything in Canberra, but nothing for the workers who died building this country. I acknowledge and thank Senator Williams for the support he gave in ensuring that the National Workers Memorial was built.</para>
<para>I just finish on this: if the coalition government spent a fraction of the amount of money they spend on attacking the trade union movement and on stopping trade union officials from getting on to jobs to support workers then there would be far fewer deaths in this country. We've got an organisation, the ABCC, that is a disgrace. It gets in there and stops workers getting access to their union so that the union can make sure they are on safe work sites. Not only is there a need for laws to be changed on penalties, regulations and legislation to hold employers accountable but there need to be changes in legislation in this country to allow workers to get access to their union so that the unions can make sure that they go home safely. This is a huge issue.</para>
<para>Again, I want to express my sympathy to the families that are here. I can tell you that the Labor Party will continue to do whatever we need to do to make sure that your tragedy doesn't happen to other families.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, your time has expired. Are you seeking leave to continue your remarks?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Marshall for presenting that report and thank the other speakers. They were very well-presented speeches. I wish those up in the gallery all the best.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Environment and Communications References Committee</title>
          <page.no>99</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>99</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RICE</name>
    <name.id>155410</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the report of the Environment and Communications References Committee on the regulatory framework governing water use, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>This is an incredibly important report looking at the issues of water use by our extractive industries. During the operations of this committee, we heard from scientists, farmers, environmental groups and industry both in submissions and in public hearings in Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra. I want to thank everybody who participated in the report. We heard about the scale of water use by the coal seam gas and unconventional gas industries and the impact of these industries on water quality. Even where the water take is incidental to the mining industry, and so isn't needed for the operation, it often ends up being very polluted and unsuitable for other uses.</para>
<para>Water truly is our most precious resource. Across a very significant part of the country, groundwater is the resource that people, agriculture and our native plants and animals rely on. Of course, our groundwater resources are interconnected across large parts of the country, so it's so important to get the management right, right across the basin. The biggest example is the Great Artesian Basin, which spreads across four states, but there are other groundwater systems too. This report is largely focused on groundwater systems, but is also on the water take of surface water because of the water take from the huge mines, which can act as dams and stop water that otherwise should be flowing into rivers and creeks from doing so.</para>
<para>The issue of how we manage this water and how we allocate water use for mining, agriculture, domestic use and the environment gets really pointy when we get drought conditions, such as we have now gone into in New South Wales and Queensland, where we really have got such pressure on making sure that the water is incredibly wisely used. The impact of drought has been a very salient parallel context for the report to take place in. The feelings of landholders, with some weighing up water use by the mining industry with water use by, say, agriculture, have reached crisis point. It makes the findings of our report today very pertinent. This is particularly relevant in circumstances such as those in Queensland, where mining operations have an unlimited take of water. As long as it's associated with the mining operation—they're not actually mining the water explicitly for the water; it's coming alongside the coal or the coal seam gas—there is unlimited take. There is a huge amount of concern in the community about this.</para>
<para>Our report provides a set of broad recommendations for government, whether the present government or future governments. I'm very pleased that we have a majority report, supported by Greens and Labor senators, that has some very important recommendations. One of the most significant recommendations is that we want to expand the water trigger to other types of unconventional gas, like shale gas and underground coal gasification. At the moment, the water trigger, which said this is an issue of national environmental significance, only applies to coal seam gas and large coalmining operations. Another recommendation was that the Commonwealth not commit to any bilateral approval agreements, which means that both the Commonwealth and the states need to be concerned about what's going on. We can't just have the Commonwealth handing over its responsibility for looking at whether water decisions are in the interests of the community. The Commonwealth needs to be involved. We need more resources for compliance and monitoring of the use of water, because if you are not measuring it you don't know what's going on. It's an absolutely fundamental thing, to have those resources put into that compliance.</para>
<para>Similarly, there is a recommendation that projects should release real-time water level and water quality data to the public so that people know what's going on. We also need to have more clarity about the impact and legality of rainwater tanks, more resourcing for the bioregional assessments so that you can say, across a region, where you have got multiple projects underway, what the cumulative impact of that water take is. This is fundamental information. We need to have the resources put in so that people know, so that we have that information and so that we can have better management. We need better modelling requirements for groundwater ecology and a broad set of reforms to better integrate the extractive industry with the National Water Initiative.</para>
<para>Our committee wasn't able to agree on everything, and there are some important Greens additional recommendations which we believe are supported by the evidence put before us. There needs to be a moratorium on fracking both because of its water take and its impact on water quality and because it is another fossil fuel that we just cannot afford to be burning and adding to our carbon emissions and climate change. Likewise we need to have a long-term exit from unconventional gas and coal both for water resource protection and for the climate. We need to do a thorough review of compliance with the approval conditions for existing projects. We had clear evidence put before us during the review about the level of noncompliance with conditions. I guarantee that, if we did a thorough review, there would be many more circumstances where it would be shown that there were conditions placed on these projects but then the project does not comply with them.</para>
<para>We need to know what the bioregional impact of these projects are beyond the prescribed area of impact, while taking into account the cumulative effect of those multiple projects, and we need much better controls on associated water. As I said, in Queensland there is unlimited take of associated water with mining projects. When you have the potential for massive new projects in addition to the existing ones—the Galilee Basin coal projects like Adani, like Clive Palmer's Waratah coal, like Gina Rinehart's GVK Hancock mines—there is huge concern about the impact that these projects are going to have on the Great Artesian Basin. We are calling upon the Commonwealth to work with Queensland to change this situation so that at the very least for any of these mining projects there is much better control of the water that is being taken alongside of it, so that we can have much better management of our most precious resource.</para>
<para>We cannot survive without good quality and good quantities of water in the second-driest continent, second only to Antarctica. Water is our most precious resource, and the recommendations outlined in this report would go a long way towards much better management of our water resources.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>100</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I present report No. 472 of the Joint Committee of Public Accounts and Audit, on Commonwealth procurement, second report, and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">   That the Senate take note of the report.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I incorporate the tabling statement in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para class="italic"><inline font-style="italic">The statement read as follows—</inline></para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document was unavailable at the time of publishing.</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Scrutiny of Bills Committee</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>100</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I present scrutiny digest 12 of 2018 of the Standing Committee for the Scrutiny of Bills.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Regulations and Ordinances Committee</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>100</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I present delegated legislation monitor 12 of 2018 of the Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Human Rights Committee</title>
          <page.no>100</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report</title>
            <page.no>100</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( On behalf of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights I present the 11th report of 2018, <inline font-style="italic">Human rights scrutiny report</inline>,and I seek leave to have the tabling statement incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The statement read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">I rise to speak to the tabling of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Human Rights' <inline font-style="italic">Human Rights Scrutiny Report 11 of 2018</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Of the new bills examined in Chapter 1 of this report, 21 have been assessed as not raising human rights concerns as they promote, permissibly limit, or do not engage, human rights. The committee has also requested further information in relation to the human rights compatibility of 3 bills and has concluded its examination of a number of other pieces of legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A number of bills examined in chapter 1 are scheduled for debate this week, including the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission Bill 2018. As set out in the report, this bill includes provisions relating to public interest disclosure of personal information by the proposed Aged Care Quality and Safety Commissioner. The committee has sought further information from the minister as to the compatibility of these measures with the right to privacy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A number of other bills scheduled for debate this week have been assessed by the committee as not raising human rights concerns, including in relation to:</para></quote>
<list>veterans' affairs</list>
<list>treasury laws amendments (including in relation to gift cards, and black economy taskforce measures);</list>
<list>customs and excise amendments relating to tobacco duties; and</list>
<list>maritime legislation.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Chapter 2 of the report contains the committee's concluded examination of a number of bills. In relation to three of these bills, following further correspondence from the relevant minister, the committee has been able to conclude that the legislation may be compatible with human rights. Of these, I would like to highlight the Court and Tribunal Legislation Amendment (Fees and Juror Remuneration Regulations) 2018. As set out in the report, these regulations increase the court fees payable in the High Court of Australia. The committee had sought further information from the Attorney-General as to whether the increase in fees was compatible with the right to an effective remedy and fair hearing, as an increase in fees may preclude persons from being able to access the court and access justice. The Attorney-General's response provided useful information as to the safeguards in place to minimise the impact on persons facing financial hardship, which enabled the committee to conclude that, on balance, the measures may be compatible with the rights to a fair hearing and effective remedy. This illustrates the constructive process of liaising with legislation proponents to assist the committee in its assessment of legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I encourage my fellow Senators and others to examine the committee's latest scrutiny report to better inform their consideration of proposed legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With these comments, I commend the committee's <inline font-style="italic">Report 11 of 2018 </inline>to the Senate.</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PETITIONS</title>
        <page.no>101</page.no>
        <type>PETITIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( by leave—on behalf of Senator Williams I table a non-conforming petition. This petition has been circulated amongst the whips.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>101</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Community Affairs Legislation Committee</title>
          <page.no>101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Government Response to Report</title>
            <page.no>101</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I present the government's response to the report of the Community Affairs Legislation Committee on its inquiry into the provisions of the Social Services Legislation Amendment (Housing Affordability) Bill 2017 and seek leave to have the document incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document was unavailable at the time of publishing.</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>101</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Customs Amendment (Collecting Tobacco Duties at the Border) Bill 2018, Customs Amendment (Product Specific Rule Modernisation) Bill 2018, Treasury Laws Amendment (Gift Cards) Bill 2018, Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Omnibus) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>101</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6185" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Collecting Tobacco Duties at the Border) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6182" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Customs Amendment (Product Specific Rule Modernisation) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6188" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Gift Cards) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6196" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Veterans' Affairs Legislation Amendment (Omnibus) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>101</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate to the Senate that these bills are being introduced together. After debate on the motion for the second reading has been adjourned, I will be moving a motion to have the bills listed separately on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together, and may be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>101</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para> <inline font-style="italic">The speech</inline> <inline font-style="italic">es read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">CUSTOMS AMENDMENT (COLLECTING TOBACCO DUTIES AT THE BORDER) BILL 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Australian Government is committed to combating the illicit tobacco black market.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In October 2017, the Black Economy Taskforce delivered their final report to Government. The 2018-19 Budget <inline font-style="italic">Black Economy Package – combatting illicit tobacco</inline> gives effect to the report's recommendations, including establishing a new framework to protect tobacco duty, a permit system to import tobacco, and the Australian Border Force-led Illicit Tobacco Taskforce.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Together, these measures will disrupt illicit tobacco supply chains and deny criminal groups access to illicit profits that fund their other criminal and black economy activities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To give effect to the new framework to protect tobacco duty, the Government is introducing the Customs Amendment (Collecting Tobacco Duties at the Border) Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Current legislation allows duties on tobacco to be paid at the point that tobacco products leave licensed warehouses, as well as when it is imported. Leakage from these warehouses to the black market contributes to around a quarter of illicit tobacco in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From 1 July 2019, tobacco importers will be required to pay all duties on tobacco upon importation. From that date, the option to enter imported tobacco into a licensed warehouse and delay the payment of duties will no longer be available. This will deny criminal groups the opportunity to defraud the Commonwealth of revenue that secures essential services for all Australians, prevent criminals from undermining Government strategies to improve public health outcomes, and it will protect law-abiding local business operators.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also include transitional arrangements for the treatment of tobacco that is in warehouses at 1 July 2019.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By tackling black economy activities in the tobacco warehousing environment, the Government will protect Australian revenue, protect the health of Australians, reduce criminal activity, and provide an estimated $3.3 billion in revenue to the Commonwealth.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">CUSTOMS AMENDMENT (PRODUCT SPECIFIC RULE MODERNISATION) BILL 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Customs Amendment (Product Specific Rule Modernisation) Bill 2018 amends the Customs Act 1901 (Customs Act) to streamline the implementation of our free trade agreements (FTAs) and help facilitate smoother trade between Australia and our FTA partners.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill does this by changing the way the product specific rules (PSRs) of Australia's FTAs are given effect in domestic legislation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Australia's in force FTAs contain Rules of Origin and PSRs. PSRs define the minimum requirements that must be met for goods that are comprised of materials that do not originate in a party to the FTA — to be considered eligible for a preferential rate of customs duty in accordance with the FTA. The PSRs are based upon the Harmonized Commodity Description and Coding System (Harmonized System).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Harmonised System is an international naming system for the classification of traded products. It currently covers thousands of commodity groups, and is used by more than 200 economies as a basis for customs tariffs and the collection of international trade statistics. Over 98 per cent of merchandise in international trade is classified in terms of the Harmonised System.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Each FTA has a separate PSR Annex, which is currently (with the exception of the Singapore-Australia Free Trade Agreement (SAFTA)), implemented domestically in Rules of Origin regulations (ROO regulations) for each FTA. Five yearly revisions of the Harmonized System by the World Customs Organization usually compel FTA parties to update their agreements' PSRs, which, in Australia's case, mean subsequent amendments to the FTA's ROO regulations. The size of these regulations ranges from 257 to 1,977 pages. Due to their size and the steadily increasing number of FTAs (currently 10), amendment of the ROO regulations to update the PSRs requires considerable time and resources for what are essentially technical changes that do not alter the operation of the treaty and do not have any direct financial implications for government, traders or consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed amendments seek to simplify this process by amending the Customs Act to apply FTA PSR annexes agreed by Parties by direct reference and remove the need to replicate PSR annexes in ROO Regulations.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The proposed amendments to the Act are technical in nature. They will not affect the practical operation of the legislation or the agreements that are the subject of the Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Parties to the Agreement to Establish the ASEAN-Australia-New Zealand Free Trade Area, otherwise known as the `AANZFTA' (pronounced: `Anz-F'Ta') have agreed to take whatever steps are necessary to bring the HS2017 PSR schedule into force domestically on 1 January 2019.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These amendments will ensure that Australia is able to meet its AANZFTA deadline, to minimise the administrative burden on Australian businesses and officials in trying to juggle new and old HS codes, and will further streamline trade between Australia and our FTA partners. In 2017, trade with Australia under AANZFTA totalled AUD120 billion.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ChAFTA and JAEPA PSR annexes are also included in the amendments, which will simplify the transposition process for these agreements once the FTA Parties have agreed them. Further similar amendments to the Customs Act will be brought to Parliament to facilitate the update of the PSRs of Australia's other existing FTAs in the foreseeable future.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill before this Chamber will allow the revised PSR schedules of these FTAs to enter into force in a far more efficient and timely manner. Once these amendments are made, future changes to the PSR annexes for AANZFTA, ChAFTA, and JAEPA will be able to be made simply by the completion of any provisions contained in the agreement pertaining to such updates, and completion of Australia's domestic treaty-making process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also refers to and applies the Annex containing the Chemical Rules of the SAFTA, which were not included in the amendments to the Customs Act that implemented the Agreement to Amend the Singapore-Australia Free Trade Agreement in 2017. The Bill also makes minor amendments to existing FTA Divisions in the Customs Act. These minor amendments will ensure consistency between our legislation and the FTA text in the Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, Chile and ASEAN-New Zealand FTAs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government is committed to the passage of these amendments in 2018. They will greatly reduce the administrative burden of the current transposition process, cutting costs for business and taxpayers, with flow on benefits to consumers and households.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In passing this Bill, the Government honours its commitments to its FTA partners to ensure our agreements remain up to date, supporting our jobs and growth agenda, reducing red-tape for Australian businesses, and helping to keep costs down for Australian households.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend the bill to this Chamber.</para></quote>
<para> </para>
<quote><para class="block">TREASURY LAWS AMENDMENT (GIFT CARDS) BILL 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill amends the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Consumer Law</inline>, contained in Schedule 2 of the <inline font-style="italic">Competition and Consumer Act 2010</inline>, to introduce a national regime for the regulation of gift cards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It introduces a minimum three year expiry period, requires expiry date information to be disclosed and bans the charging of post-supply fees to provide consumers with greater confidence and make gift cards simpler and fairer for all consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">At the same time, the reforms will ensure Australian businesses have one set of clear rules to follow relating to the regulation of gift cards.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Gift card terms and conditions vary widely, making it hard for consumers to understand what their rights and obligations are. Consumers often experience frustration and financial loss from an expired gift card.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is currently no uniform regulation for minimum expiry periods and post-supply fees, with different rules applying across jurisdictions. The inconsistencies have created uncertainty for consumers and a regulatory burden for businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">On 18 October 2017, the New South Wales Parliament passed the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Trading Amendment (Ticket Scalping and Gift Cards) Act 2017</inline>. This law commenced on 31 March 2018, introducing a minimum three year expiry for gift cards sold in New South Wales.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, the South Australian Parliament recently introduced the <inline font-style="italic">Fair Trading (Gift cards) Amendment Bill 2018</inline> to impose a three year minimum expiry date for gift cards sold in South Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Three years has generally been considered a reasonable period for consumers to use gift cards and simultaneously provides businesses with sufficient certainty to manage their liabilities. To date a number of national retailers have already adopted the three year minimum expiry period or longer terms following the introduction of gift card laws in New South Wales.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill imposes a three year minimum nationally, balancing consumer rights and business compliance. It will also require the expiry date information to be prominently displayed on the card itself. This will ensure consumers are able to make informed purchasing decisions by having access to this information at the time it is needed and on the gift card itself, rather than on accompanying packaging or on a website.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When a gift card is given, it is not necessarily the case the expiry date information is clear to the gift recipient. The form of disclosure provides the needed flexibility to businesses while being clear for consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Further, under the national regime the charging of post-supply fees, such as inactivity and balance checking fees, after the gift card has been supplied will be prohibited. The Bill's regulation-making power will also allow the Government to provide an exhaustive list of fees for gift cards that can be charged post-supply.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In addition, regulation-making powers contained in the bill allow for certain gift cards, persons and gift cards supplied in particular circumstances to be exempt from all or some of the requirements imposed by this reform. This will provide flexibility to support industry to adopt innovative marketing techniques to encourage demand and manage stock levels. It will also allow the law to adapt to changes in technology and business activities to ensure essential activities involving gift cards are not curtailed to the detriment of businesses and consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is an offence to contravene the reforms contained in the bill. This will act as a strong deterrent against misconduct that can have serious detriment for consumers, thereby enhancing the integrity of the regulatory regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A contravention of the minimum three year expiry period, disclosure of expiry information and post-supply fee requirements carries a maximum penalty of $30,000 for a body corporate and $6,000 for persons other than a body corporate. The maximum penalties are consistent with similar consumer protections in the Australian Consumer Law.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Compliance with these reforms will be monitored and enforced by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">To provide industry with time to adapt to the new regime, the reforms will commence on</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 November 2019. This will also ensure that these important protections for consumers are in place for the 2019 Christmas period.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consumers and businesses support this reform as it improves consumer outcomes, provides consistency and is workable for business. The states and territories have also shown their support for a national regime.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">VETERANS' AFFAIRS LEGISLATION AMENDMENT (OMNIBUS) BILL 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Affairs Legislation Amendment (Omnibus) Bill 2018</inline> demonstrates the commitment this Government made in 2016 and 2017 to put veterans first and continues on measures we introduced earlier this year under the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Affairs Legislation Amendment (Veteran-centric Reforms No.1) Act 2018</inline> and <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Affairs Legislation Amendment (Veteran-centric Reforms No.2) Act 2018</inline>.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill is designed to improve outcomes for serving Australian Defence Force members, veterans and their families and will ensure that essential services are available to veterans when they need it. This Bill will:</para></quote>
<list>extend claim avenues to include the Chief of Defence Force;</list>
<list>resolve veterans' claims more quickly by strengthening the ability of the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission to obtain information from third parties;</list>
<quote><para class="block">and</para></quote>
<list>expedite lump sum exemptions for veterans by simplifying DVA and Department of Human Services' processes.</list>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 1 of the Bill would amend the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline> to enable the Chief of the Defence Force to make a claim for liability on behalf of a current serving Australian Defence Force member, where the member suffers a service injury or disease and agrees to the Chief of the Defence Force or his delegate making the claim. This amendment would provide an alternative way that a claim for liability may be made. In some cases, it may facilitate an earlier acceptance of liability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendment is intended to benefit veterans by minimising some of the difficulties that may be encountered when making an initial claim for liability some time after the injury was sustained or the disease contracted.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Veterans will also benefit in having their future claims for related diseases and conditions that manifest after their service more easily accepted. For example if DVA accepts a knee injury at the time of the injury via a claim from the CDF, accepting osteoarthritis of the knee in the future will be much easier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">DVA will be able to use the additional claim data at the point of injury to better inform decisions around trends in injuries and onset of other conditions. This may inform later policy on simplifying and streamlining the claims process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 of the Bill would enable the Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Commission to obtain information in determining a claim for compensation under the <inline font-style="italic">Safety Rehabilitation and Compensation (Defence-related) Claims Act 1988 </inline>(DRCA<inline font-style="italic">).</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Veterans can be adversely affected when information critical to their claim is not provided by third parties. These provisions will provide veterans and their families with easier access to information relevant to their compensation claims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The provisions will require Commonwealth, State or Territory Departments, authorities and other persons such as current or former treatment providers or other parties to provide information, on request of the Commission. This will ensure that the Commission has access to all the information necessary to make decisions on claims.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments would bring the DRCA in line with the <inline font-style="italic">Military Rehabilitation and Compensation Act 2004</inline> and the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Entitlements Act 1986.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 3 would improve administrative practices in the Department of Veterans' Affairs concerning income support clients and the exempting of certain lump sum payments from the income test.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Entitlements Act 1986 </inline>would allow certain exempt lump sum determinations made by the Secretary for Social Services to apply to income support clients, where the determination is consistent with Department of Veterans' Affairs legislation and policy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Currently, the Repatriation Commission makes separate, yet identical, exempt lump sum determinations for payments that have already been exempted under the <inline font-style="italic">Social Security Act 1991 </inline>by the Secretary for Social Services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under the new arrangements, DSS will advise DVA of its determination, which will be applied to DVA income support clients without the requirement to register an additional instrument.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The <inline font-style="italic">Veterans</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic"> Entitlements Act 1986 </inline>will retain the authority for the Repatriation Commission to make a determination to specify an exempt lump sum is an amount that the Repatriation Commission determines to be an exempt lump sum. The amendment will not change the current exclusions of the determination as it applies to companies, trusts and primary production.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Each of these amendments will mean better outcomes for veterans and their families.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I commend this Bill.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the bills be listed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline> as separate orders of the day.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Treasury Laws Amendment (Lower Taxes for Small and Medium Businesses) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r6206" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Treasury Laws Amendment (Lower Taxes for Small and Medium Businesses) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Treasury Laws Amendment (Lower Taxes for Small and Medium Businesses) Bill 2018 will provide further tax relief for small and medium businesses in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will continue our work of delivering a stronger economy and supporting the three million small and medium businesses which employ around seven million Australian workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It will bring forward by five years already legislated tax cuts for small to medium companies and un-incorporated businesses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Under Schedule 1 of this Bill, companies with a turnover of up to $50 million will benefit from the tax rate being reduced from the current rate of 27.5 per cent to 26 per cent in 2020-21 and 25 per cent in 2021-22 and subsequent years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will benefit around 940,000 small to medium size companies (with turnover of up to $50 million), employing around 4.8 million Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2 of this Bill will provide an enhanced tax discount for sole traders and other unincorporated businesses which have a turnover of up to $5 million. The unincorporated tax discount will increase from its current rate of 8 per cent to a 13 per cent discount in 2020-21 and to 16 per cent in 2021-22.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This will benefit around 2.35 million unincorporated businesses (with turnover of up to $5 million), employing around 1.8 million Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedules 1 and 2 bring forward reductions in the tax rate by five years. This acceleration of tax relief will allow these small and medium businesses to plan on the basis of the new tax rates and realise the corresponding benefits earlier.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is an investment in Australia. It is part of our plan that is delivering a stronger economy.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We believe in the more than three million small to medium businesses in Australia employing seven million workers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Reducing their taxes will allow them to invest, grow and hire more Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Since the Coalition came to office, more than one million jobs have been created, including more women, more young Australians and older Australians.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the last financial year, more than 100,000 young Australians got a job – the largest number on record.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is a great outcome and is an example of the real impact of a stronger economy and good macroeconomic policies.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Providing small and medium businesses a lower tax rate sooner will allow them to drive further economic growth, hire more workers and ultimately pay higher wages.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Full details of the measure are contained in the explanatory memorandum.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
<para>Ordered that the resumption of the debate be made an order of the day for a later hour.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission Bill 2018, Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>105</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6180" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6179" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>105</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together, and may be read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">AGED CARE QUALITY AND SAFETY COMMISSION BILL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am proud to introduce the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission Bill 2018, which contributes to this Government's commitment to ensure that Australians in the aged care system are better cared for. This Bill gives effect to the Government's announcement in the 2018-19 Budget to establish this new Independent Commission, as part of providing for better quality of care for consumers of aged care services in Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The introduction of this Commission is also a direct response to the findings and recommendations of the <inline font-style="italic">Review of National Aged Care Regulatory Processes </inline>undertaken by Kate Camel! and Ron Paterson. I would like to acknowledge Ms Carrell and Professor Paterson for the review as it has contributed significantly to the Government's reforms in relation to aged care quality regulation. I would like to express my gratitude to the aged care consumers who gave their time to provide this Review with submissions setting out their experiences of the aged care system. I would also like to thank the consumer and advocacy groups, aged care providers and their peak bodies, and the industry experts who have made themselves available to assist the Department of Health in the development of this Bill.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission brings together the functions of the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency, the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner, and, from 1 January 2020, the aged care regulatory functions of the Department of Health.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I would like to thank Ms Rae Lamb, the first appointed Aged Care Complaints Commissioner for her outstanding contribution to strengthening the aged care complaints system; empowering consumers to exercise their rights; and working with aged care providers to deliver better care and services. I would also like to thank Mr Nick Ryan, CEO of the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency for his outstanding and tireless contribution to the regulation of aged care and building a better system to protect consumers and promote quality aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This single agency will ensure older Australians and their families have a single point of contact to raise concerns and ask questions about their aged care and to know the new Commission is empowered to respond.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consumers are at the heart of this reform, and the role of the Commission will be to operate a regulatory framework that will protect and enhance the quality of life, safety, health and well-being of aged care consumers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission is to be responsible for promoting the confidence and trust of aged care consumers in the provision of aged care services including Commonwealth-funded aged care services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will promote engagement with aged care consumers and representatives within the aged care sector about the quality of care and services provided by approved providers of aged care services and Commonwealth-funded aged care service providers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The role of the Commission, builds on existing government funded consumer-focused support such as the Older Person Advocacy Network (OPAN) that advocates for and supports consumers to know their rights and have a voice about their care and services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commission will be led by an independent Aged Care Quality and Safety Commissioner. A single statutory office will enable flexible and responsive regulatory powers and build a holistic and joined up risk-based approach to aged care regulation.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner will take on the functions currently performed by the Complaints Commissioner and the Chief Executive Officer of the Quality Agency, with specific functions also set out that relate to:</para></quote>
<list>engaging with aged care consumers, in the developing and promotion of best practice models for the engagement and providers; and</list>
<list>seeking and receiving clinical advice in relation to the functions of the Commissioner, which is envisaged to occur through , the engagement of a Chief Clinical Advisor, with an Expert Clinical Panel to be established to support the role of the Chief Clinical Advisor.</list>
<quote><para class="block">The Commissioner will be supported by advice from the Aged Care Quality and Safety Advisory Council. This Council will be made up of members with significant expertise in relevant fields and will be empowered to provide the Commissioner and the Government with advice concerning the functions of the Commissioner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill:</para></quote>
<list>establishes the Commission and proposes that it will become a prescribed agency under the Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013;</list>
<list>describes the functions of the Commissioner of the Commission and its advisory body (the Aged Care Quality and Safety Advisory Council);</list>
<list>describes the appointment processes for the Commissioner and the Advisory Council members;</list>
<list>describes important operational matters relating to the Commission including reporting requirements; and</list>
<list>outlines use, disclosure and type of protected information.</list>
<quote><para class="block">A single Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission will ensure that consumers know who to contact when they require assistance with a complaint, a concern or when something goes wrong. Aged care providers will also know who to contact in relation to their accreditation, assessment, quality monitoring and compliance requirements. The Commission's role extends to all Commonwealth funded aged care service types, including residential care and care in the consumer's own home.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I will also introduce the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018, which provides for the administrative matters required to transfer the functions and operations of the existing authorities into the new Commission. Importantly, this Bill provides for the continuation of the appointments of the members of the existing Aged Care Quality Advisory Council, as members of the new</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Aged Care Quality and Safety Advisory Council. This will enable the new Advisory Council to commence operations immediately, and will provide stability and experience in the advice being provided to the Commissioner and to the Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">These Bills form part of a broader Government's aged care reform agenda announced in the 2018-19, which includes further reforms to improve aged care regulation and the provide greater transparency of quality in aged care, which will continue to be implemented in the coming months and years.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">AGED CARE QUALITY AND SAFETY COMMISSION (CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTS AND TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS) BILL</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Today I am pleased to introduce the Aged Care Quality and Safety</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Commission (Consequential Amendments and Transitional Provisions) Bill 2018.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill is a companion Bill to the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission Bill 2018.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will repeal the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Aged Care Quality Agency Act 2013 </inline>and the <inline font-style="italic">Australian Aged Care Quality Agency (Transitional Provisions) Act 2013 </inline>when the new Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission comes into effect on 1 January 2019. In addition it will make consequential amendments to the <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 1997 </inline>and Associated Principles to replace references to:</para></quote>
<list>the CEO of the Aged Care Quality Agency;</list>
<list>the Aged Care Quality Agency; and</list>
<list>the Aged Care Complaints Commissioner;</list>
<quote><para class="block">with the Aged Care Quality and Safety Commissioner.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Most importantly this Bill provides for the administrative matters required to transfer the functions and operations of the two existing authorities into the new Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission. Importantly, this Bill provides for the continuation of the appointments of the members of the existing Aged Care Quality Advisory Council, as members of the new Aged</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Care Quality and Safety Advisory Council. This will enable the new Advisory Council to commence operations immediately, and will provide stability and experience in the advice being provided to the Commissioner and to the Government.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finally the Bill also provides a degree of flexibility to make adjustments to the new arrangements or prescribe other matters of a transitional nature in the rules.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>In accordance with standing order 115(3), further consideration of these bills is now adjourned to 19 October 2018.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Government Procurement (Judicial Review) Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>107</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r5871" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Government Procurement (Judicial Review) Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>107</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Labor will support this bill. On its own, this bill would be relatively non-controversial. It implements a more accessible judicial review process to allow suppliers to challenge procurement decisions. This bill will provide suppliers with a more timely, effective, transparent and non-discriminatory review process when it comes to breaches of the Commonwealth Procurement Rules, also known as CPRs. The bill allows suppliers to ask the Federal Circuit Court to review their case instead of the Federal Court. This is likely to be cheaper, faster and more readily available in regional areas. This bill is expected to benefit Australian businesses, but the government is failing to maximise the opportunities of our $50 billion a year procurement program.</para>
<para>We do, however, believe that more can be done to ensure that the test is maximised and that we are supporting, most importantly, Australian jobs. We also need to fix transparency around procurement decisions and processes. We need to make sure that Australians know exactly how much money is being spent on external contractors and consultants. Labor will ensure that government spending and procurement data is collected on a central database, including contract reporting and consultancy spending, and will require agencies to keep records of subcontractors used. Future governments won't be able to hide what this government has hidden. The government should ensure that the WTO's agreement on government procurement does not further constrain the Commonwealth's ability to support Australian businesses, and that is why we will support this bill.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">(Quorum formed)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a brief contribution to the Government Procurement (Judicial Review) Bill 2017. I note that in the Senate Finance and Public Administration Legislation Committee's report on this bill Labor made some additional comments outlining come concerns. The additional comments included:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Labor Senators are concerned that it is premature to legislate a dispute resolution arrangement to meet international obligations in the GPA prior to negotiations on the agreement being finalised. Delaying consideration of this bill would ensure Parliament has the opportunity to consider the agreement in full.</para></quote>
<para>They went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Joint Standing Committee on Government Procurement report <inline font-style="italic">Buying into our Future</inline> also expressed concerns that this bill should not be progressed until the GPA negotiations are finalised.</para></quote>
<para>I note that Australia's accession agreement to the World Trade Organization government procurement agreement has recently been finalised but not formally accepted by WTO members. This bill is being debated and will likely pass today because of the related TPP legislation, but the provisions of this bill will also apply to the WTO accession. This means that the bill will have passed before anyone from parliament has seen Australia's commitment in the WTO procurement agreement. It is critical that the parliament be able to scrutinise Australia's accession agreement before voting on this bill, but yet again we are being let down by the Labor Party on an important issue of transparency.</para>
<para>In line with my comments on the two customs bills that have just passed the Senate, Centre Alliance opposes this bill primarily on the basis that it needs to be passed in order for the TPP to come into force. This is because the appeal mechanisms for procurement processes currently in place are insufficient to meet the requirements of the TPP. I have circulated amendments that delay the commencement of this bill, as well as an alternative amendment to sunset the bill, because Centre Alliance believes that the issues relating to ISDS clauses and labour market testing should be fixed before, not after. It is unlikely the Labor Party has had a change of heart overnight, but I look forward to moving these amendments during the committee stage.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator RUSTON</name>
    <name.id>243273</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I would like to thank those senators who have contributed to this debate on the Government Procurement (Judicial Review) Bill 2017. The bill implements recommendation 11 of the July 2014 Senate Finance and Public Administration References Committee report into the Commonwealth procurement procedures for the Department of Finance to establish an independent and effective complaints mechanism for procurement processes.</para>
<para>The government does not support the amendments moved by Senator Patrick and the Greens. The proposed amendments are effectively an attempt to have Australia renegotiate its TPP-11 obligations to remove the investor-state dispute settlement and labour market testing commitments, using legislation associated with ratifying the TPP-11 as leverage to achieve this. The proposed amendments would risk the clear benefits that the proposed complaints mechanism is aiming to achieve for suppliers to the Australian government. The amendments would also potentially impact on a range of other international agreements, including by undermining Australia's bid to accede to the World Trade Organization government procurement agreement, which will provide Australian businesses with reciprocal access to overseas government procurement markets worth US$1.7 trillion. I thank all senators for their contributions and commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>122087</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [19:17]<br />(The Acting Deputy President—Senator McCarthy)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>30</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>109</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Glyphosate</title>
          <page.no>109</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight to continue my remarks on a topic which I spoke about earlier in the day, which is the attack on the use of the chemical glyphosate in the farming industries of Australia. I wanted to continue my remarks on this topic because this is a very important chemical for agriculture in Australia, particularly in relation to no-till or minimum-till farming.</para>
<para>The use of minimum-till techniques in terms of stopping erosion, stopping water loss and maximising the nutritional retention of fertiliser in the soil is a significant environmental benefit. I think it is quite ironic that, while certain groups are trying to see a herbicide like glyphosate banned, they are, at the same time, actively working against the use of modern plant breeding techniques that would have potentially enormous benefits for both the Australian agricultural sector and the world in terms of feeding a growing population.</para>
<para>The case I'll bring up is the recent European Court of Justice ruling on GMO rules. What the European Court of Justice found was that organisms obtained by mutagenesis, which is a set of techniques that make it possible to alter the genome of a living species, are GMOs. Now, this is a very interesting decision and it is a completely illogical decision when based on the science. What they've had to do in order to preserve all the crops that are currently in production, including all the crops that are currently used by organic farmers, is effectively say that mutagenesis is a form of GMO. However, they're going to carve out an exemption for mutagenesis that has come from traditional plant breeding techniques, involving things like the exposing of the genome to radiation or chemicals, which are random mutations with unknown effects but which have been around for a long time. That carve out, in effect, makes absolutely no logical sense. It makes no sense based on the modern science of genetics, which understands that techniques like the CRISPR-Cas9 technique, which involves very discreet changes to the genome, are much more precise, much safer and much more understandable in their outcome on human health and safety than a random set of mutations caused by the exposure of the genome to radiation or chemicals.</para>
<para>So you have here the same people, the same groups, the radical green groups, trying to eliminate the use of glyphosate while, at the same time, stopping farmers from all around the world, but particularly stopping Australian farmers, from accessing the new techniques of plant breeding that would actually offer solutions both to using much, much less chemical and to dealing with changes to the climate, changes to rainfall patterns and changes to the demand for food based on a growing population. So the very same people who are trying to stop the use of a particular chemical are, at the same time, stopping the techniques that would actually mean that that chemical wasn't needed. The irony of this should be lost on no-one. We need, when making these decisions, to always look to the science of these matters. What is safe? What is effective? What is going to give Australian farmers the tools and the techniques that they need to produce the high-quality food that the world will need into future? Thank you.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Care</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When I'm out talking to people in the great state of New South Wales there is one thing that comes through loud and clear, and that is that people know that you cannot trust a Liberal government when it comes to health. This government has spent five years cutting vital health services that Australians rely on. When Scott Morrison, our now Prime Minister, was Treasurer he cut more than $700 million from Australian hospitals. We know that these cuts have a significant impact on people who are living in rural and regional areas.</para>
<para>I want to talk a bit about the people who live in the electorate of Gilmore, an electorate I spend quite a bit of time in. Those people, from Moruya through to Kiama, have watched as the government has failed year on year to in any way improve health services in that area. Fiona Phillips, Labor's candidate in Gilmore, has been fighting for people living on the New South Wales south coast to get the health care that they need close to home. Currently, people who live in Batemans Bay have to drive 120 kilometres to Nowra to access the nearest Medicare subsidised MRI machine. Some are even forced to drive all the way to Canberra. That is why Labor has committed to funding a Medicare MRI licence for Batemans Bay Hospital so that locals get the scans that they need close to home without being hit by very high out-of-pocket costs.</para>
<para>When Labor were last in office we granted 238 of these licences, because we understand the importance of MRI scans being accessible in local communities. It is in stark contrast to this government, because under the Liberals they have granted just five MRI licences throughout five years in office. On average one every year—it's hopeless. Just one day after Labor's shadow minister for health, Catherine King, announced that Labor will provide MRI licences across the country we then saw the Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, make a clumsy attempt to match that announcement. MRI scans are used to detect tumours and cancer. Communities benefit from early detection and diagnosis, and a lack of access to these services can have deadly consequences. The people of Gilmore deserve a lot more than what they're getting.</para>
<para>Labor has always believed that it should be a Medicare card not your credit card which determines your access to health care in Australia. In the electorate of Page people have expressed serious concerns about the Liberals cuts to hospitals and the effect it is having on their community. Patrick Deegan, Labor's candidate in Page, has been listening to people living in the Clarence Valley who have told him about how their local hospital needs a helipad. The old helipad at Maclean District Hospital has been closed for almost 18 months and the community's calls have been largely ignored by the local member, Kevin Hogan. Helipads are vital for the urgent transportation of critically ill people, and if the helipad were funded this would ensure faster access to care at other hospitals and that ambulance remain on the road responding to calls. But, instead of acting, Kevin Hogan has been more concerned about playing political games on the crossbench. We don't know what he stands for, but it certainly isn't for the people of Page. But we shouldn't be at all surprised by the government's inaction on the Maclean helipad, especially considering the track record of the Prime Minister.</para>
<para>As Treasurer, Mr Morrison cut $9.5 million from the Northern NSW Local Health District between 2017 and 2020. Labor's commitments come as part of a $2.8 million better hospital fund to better fund better facilities and more services across the nation. The people of Page deserve more than they are getting.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Australian Broadcasting Corporation</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( Threats to the independence of the ABC are nothing new. By my estimation, since the mid-seventies, no fewer than four of the 11 ABC board chairs have had their terms cut short by failing to live up to the expectations of the government of the day, both coalition and Labor. Three managing directors have met the same fate. What unites them all is that they were subject to less than transparent processes, which have cumulatively led to a loss of public confidence not in the independence of the ABC but in its ability to withstand attacks on that independence. And now it has happened again, despite the 2012 introduction of new measures for board appointments designed to ensure, as stated by the government of the day, a transparent and democratic board appointment process that appoints non-executive directors on merit. In recent years the intention and spirit of this process has been ignored on at least three occasions, leading to public disquiet about the independence and integrity of the ABC. Three appointees to the ABC board by this government were not recommended by the independent nomination panel. The fourth was highly rated by the panel, then withdrew from the process but was subsequently appointed by the minister.</para>
<para>The National Broadcasting Legislation Amendment Act 2012 established an independent nomination panel designed to nominate appointments of non-executive directors to the board of the ABC and SBS based on merit. According to the act, the nominees are required to have experience in connection with the provision of broadcasting services or in communication or management, expertise in financial or technical matters, and cultural or other interests relevant to an oversight of a pubic organisation engaged in the provision of broadcasting. But the act also enabled the Prime Minister of the day to ignore the panel's nominations as long as he or she tabled the reasons for that appointment in each house of the parliament no later than 15 sitting days after the appointment was made. The intention was honourable, but it has turned out to have a substantial deficiency.</para>
<para>On 17 November 2009 in this place, former senator Nick Minchin said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">While the government is establishing a nomination panel for the appointment process, at the end of the day scope remains for the minister and the Prime Minister to ignore panel nominations and appoint whoever they like.</para></quote>
<para>And so it has turned out to be, setting in train a course of events which, once again, saw the ABC with a managing director whose term was cut short and a chair whose actions forced him to resign. A bare majority of the current ABC board were appointed as a result of recommendations from the independent nomination panel. Two of the current board members were not nominated as qualified candidates by the panel; one did not even apply.</para>
<para>What is required are modest, measured, graduated steps to encourage governments to accept the nominations of the independent nomination panel. Should they not, the voters would see where responsibility for the consequences of the government's actions lie—with the government and no-one else. And that is where responsibility for the recent episodes centring on the former chair and former managing director of the ABC lies—with the government and no-one else. They appointed Justin Milne. He headed the board who appointed Ms Guthrie. Neither process was sufficiently transparent. We now know that the minister was informed of the breakdown in relations between the board and Ms Guthrie on 12 September, 12 days before her dismissal became public. The minister denies that he's ever, in any way, shape or form, sought to involve himself in ABC staffing matters, but clearly Mr Milne saw it differently.</para>
<para>The current process for appointing non-executive directors to the ABC board may have been well intentioned, but it has failed. It's time for the Senate to pass a modest, measured, graduated step so that the chances for political interference in the ABC, real or perceived, are reduced and the public can be assured that the pre-eminent cultural institution is not only genuinely independent but also has the protections to withstand attacks on that independence as well as its autonomy and integrity.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>National Carers Week</title>
          <page.no>111</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I rise to address the chamber during this week, National Carers Week. I was lucky enough to attend a breakfast this morning to celebrate this special week and to hear firsthand from carers, parliamentary colleagues, representatives of Carers Australia and state and territory carer organisations, and the community about the invaluable work that carers perform day in and day out.</para>
<para>Weeks like this and events like that are so important because they show our appreciation for carers, giving them the national attention that they clearly deserve. They're important because they ensure that carers are placed front and centre on the national stage. But that's not something we can do just one week of the year. We need to do this on a daily basis and we need to do this to show our tremendous appreciation for the unpaid work that is performed by the 2.7 million carers, including 680,000 full-time carers, across our country. There are events taking place all over Australia this week, and there is a campaign being run on social media that encourages people to share their personal stories of being a carer by using the hashtag #whywecare. We have seen hundreds of stories coming in on Twitter, on Facebook and on the Carer Australia website as a result of this campaign—moving stories like that of Russell, from Victoria. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I have been a full-time carer for my wife since 2010. My wife had a brain aneurysm in 1999, six weeks after my youngest son was born. In 2010 she could no longer look after herself and I had to leave work to take care of her. I would do anything for her. That is what love and marriage is. For better or worse. She would have done it for me. It's hard sometimes but it is the best job in the world.</para></quote>
<para>Russell's story shows us the dedication of some of our carers who face significant challenges in being full-time carers but persevere anyway, putting the people they care for first in their lives. It is something we see in stories like that of Amanda, from my home state of Tasmania. She said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">My sons and I look after my father after recent decline in his health. Although at time it's not easy, due to being his case manager and advocate as well, we wouldn't have it any other way. Caring is exhausting but rewarding in many aspects. I know he is grateful but I always look forward to respite when my brothers take him for a couple of hours. I don't receive a payment for this and carers save government millions of dollars. This is a serious glitch and needs to be addressed.</para></quote>
<para>Amanda's story shares the full spectrum of the experience of caring. It shows the value that she gains from being a carer, but it also tells us we need to do more to give carers the time needed to take time for themselves. We know that carers experience social isolation at a rate far greater than noncarers and we know that carers face greater financial challenges. So it's little wonder that so many stories show that carers don't always have the luxury of time or money to seek respite when they need it. In fact, the median weekly income of primary carers is 42 per cent lower than noncarers. So we know just how serious are the financial challenges for carers in trying to keep up with daily life expenses.</para>
<para>National Carers Week is a reminder that there is more work to be done. There is more work to be done to show carers that we appreciate and respect everything they do and there is more work to be done to close the financial and social gaps between carers and noncarers. So I encourage one and all—today, this week and all throughout the rest of the year: if you know a carer, tell them you appreciate them. Share a story on social media about your appreciation for carers or take time out of your week to support a carer. As a full-time carer, Rebecca Unwin shared in the Launceston <inline font-style="italic">Examiner</inline> this week that 'It's okay not to be okay'. That's a powerful lesson that she learnt after Carers Tasmania and her GP told her to see a counsellor. It is a lesson that so many carers learn along the way and it is a lesson that only gets shared when we discuss the work of carers. So let's take the time to make sure our carers know they are valued. Let's take the time to listen and to hear their stories and offer time for a helping hand—whatever we can do to recognise that Australia wouldn't be the country it is today without carers and we wouldn't have the support of such incredible people without weeks like National Carers Week. Happy National Carers Week and thank you to all our carers all over Australia.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 19:39</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>112</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>112</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>112</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>112</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>