
<hansard version="2.2" noNamespaceSchemaLocation="../../hansard.xsd">
  <session.header>
    <date>2018-09-10</date>
    <parliament.no>45</parliament.no>
    <session.no>1</session.no>
    <period.no>7</period.no>
    <chamber>Senate</chamber>
    <page.no>0</page.no>
    <proof>1</proof>
  </session.header>
  <chamber.xscript>
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          <span class="HPS-SODJobDate">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;"></span>
            <a href="Chamber" type="">Monday, 10 September 2018</a>
          </span>
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        <p class="HPS-Normal" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
          <span class="HPS-Normal">
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. </span>
            <span style="font-weight:bold;">Scott Ryan)</span> took the chair at 10:00, read prayers and made an acknowledgement of country.</span>
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          <span class="HPS-Line"> </span>
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    </business.start>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Meeting</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:01):</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>( I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator. There being none, we will move to the swearing in of a new senator.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY REPRESENTATION</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Queensland</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Senators Sworn</title>
            <page.no>1</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>PARLIAMENTARY OFFICE HOLDERS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>PARLIAMENTARY OFFICE HOLDERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Temporary Chairs of Committees</title>
          <page.no>1</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Pursuant to standing order 12, I lay on the table warrants nominating Senators Hume and McGrath as additional Temporary Chairs of Committees when the Deputy President and Chair of Committees is absent and revoking the warrants nominating Senators Fawcett and Reynolds as Temporary Chairs of Committees.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>1</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table for the information of the Senate a revised ministry list reflecting changes to the ministry made on 28 August 2018. I seek leave to have the document incorporated into <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> and make a short statement regarding government leadership positions in the Senate.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The document read as follows—</inline></para>
<para>MORRISON MINISTRY</para>
<para>Each box represents a portfolio. Cabinet Ministers are shown in bold type. As a general rule, there is one department in each portfolio. However, there is a Department of Human Services in the Social Services portfolio and a Department of Veterans' Affairs in the Defence portfolio. The title of a department does not necessarily reflect the title of a minister in all cases. Assistant Ministers in italics are designated as Parliamentary Secretaries under the <inline font-style="italic">Ministers of State Act 1952.</inline></para>
<para>I advise the Senate that I have been appointed Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Birmingham has been appointed Deputy Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Fifield has been appointed Manager of Government Business in the Senate and Senator Ruston has been appointed Deputy Manager of Government Business in the Senate. I also advise the Senate that Senator Hume was appointed a deputy whip on 7 September 2018.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>3</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Consideration of Legislation</title>
          <page.no>3</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following general business orders of the day be considered today at the time for private senators' bills: No. 79, Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018, and No. 67, Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>3</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>3</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <a href="s1129" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>3</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm so honoured to have the opportunity to speak in support of this bill to end long-haul live sheep exports. Australians are asking us to end the brutality of live exports, and I am hopeful that today the Senate will answer that call. Just in the last few weeks we have all received thousands of emails from everyday Australians, from all walks of life and from all over the country, asking us to end this trade in misery. This cannot be ignored. We must answer their call.</para>
<para>Animals are not mere cargo. They are living, breathing things with sentience. The images, exposed by Animals Australia and <inline font-style="italic">60 Minutes</inline>, aboard the <inline font-style="italic">Awassi Express</inline> were indeed sickening and heart-wrenching—images of thousands of sheep dying from heat stress and overcrowding. In one day alone, more than 800 sheep died in excruciating conditions. These images are burnt indelibly into my mind: scared, confused and terrified animals knee-deep in excrement; a newborn lamb lying abandoned and alone on a metal floor; sheep desperately trying to escape pens as they are literally cooked alive from the inside out; and carcasses piled up as they decay in the oppressive heat.</para>
<para>I wish that this was a one-off. I wish that we had caught the bad guys and punished them and life could go on. But this fantasy world that the government lives in doesn't exist. It simply doesn't exist. Cancelling one licence doesn't change the fact that this is a trade built inherently on cruelty, on standards that guarantee the horrific and cruel deaths of thousands of sheep each year. This has been going on for decades, yet every time it happens it is written off as another bad apple. I am here to tell you today that the live export trade is simply and totally incompatible with animal welfare.</para>
<para>The bill we are debating today represents a historical political compromise to wipe out the very worst of live exports, to end immediately long-haul sheep and lamb export voyages to the Persian Gulf or through the Red Sea during the Northern Hemisphere summer and then, through a transitional five-year period, on all those trips. The Greens, however, maintain that all live exports of all livestock for slaughter overseas should be banned. Let's not forget that over 30 years ago a 1985 Senate report stated that on animal welfare reasons alone the live export trade should stop with the transition to chilled meat exports. A plethora of economic reports since have confirmed that the live export trade has competed with and caused the closure of meat-processing plants and abattoirs in regional Australia, with the loss of local jobs and community incomes. Australia's chilled meat industry is worth seven times more to Australia than live exports and is rapidly growing. It makes no economic sense to keep the cruelty on these ships going. The live sheep export trade in particular is a dying industry. Every importing country already buys chilled and boxed meat products from Australia. Just six per cent—a mere six per cent—of Australian sheep enter the live export chain, and they can easily be accommodated in the chilled meat industry. With support, we can actually help farmers transition out of this trade and into long-term security and sustainability.</para>
<para>I remind senators that the only reason we know about what happens on live export ships is because of the bravery of whistleblowers. In the case of Emanuel Exports' <inline font-style="italic">Awassi Express</inline><inline font-style="italic">,</inline> it was a young Pakistani trainee navigation officer on the vessel, 25-year-old Faisal Ullah, a graduate of Pakistan Marine Academy. He described the conditions on board the vessel to be the same as putting live animals into the oven. Mr Faisal Ullah said he felt a personal obligation to expose the cruelty because of the severity of the suffering that he witnessed, including lambs born on the ship being crushed to death and the cruel slitting of the throats of sheep to throw them overboard. We can't see this again and again and think it should continue. Over the years, many others have risked their jobs and their safety to expose the truth of animal abuse. This bill honours their bravery in ending this trade in misery.</para>
<para>I thank Senator Hinch and Senator Storer for co-sponsoring the bill with the Greens and all senators who have spoken in support of it. I also pay tribute to my predecessor, Lee Rhiannon, without whom we would not be here today. Her passion for animals and her determined work to end suffering is indeed legendary. I also note the incredible work of the many organisations like Animals Australia and RSPCA Australia that have pushed for this change. Most of all I thank the community. This is truly a historic day, when issues of animal welfare have made it to the floor of the Senate. Today we say no to second chances. Today it is our obligation to end this cruelty. Today it is time to ban live exports. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DEAN SMITH</name>
    <name.id>241710</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too—perhaps delighted is too strong a word—am honoured to be making a contribution to what is a public debate. No doubt we have all had very similar, if not the same, email correspondence from many people across Australia advocating for the ban of live sheep exports. I don't doubt the sincerity of those in this place and outside this place who argue that we should be moving towards a ban. But the emotional response—the kneejerk response that we've witnessed in detail in the presentation of this private senator's bill, the Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018—ignores a couple of fundamental issues and a fundamental point: that the live sheep export industry underpins the agricultural base of my home state of Western Australia. So decisions that are taken to ban live sheep exports need to be highly considered, need to have regard for the broader economic argument, and need to be very aware and conscious that this is an industry that supports, in a very substantial way, the agricultural base of a state like Western Australia and, in the process, the livelihoods of many Western Australians—not just those living across regional communities who are dependent on farming but, indeed, the livelihoods of those people in associated industries.</para>
<para>So it will come as no surprise to people in this place that I will not be supporting this particular private senator's bill. I have been very clear with correspondents to me who have argued that I should support this bill that, as a representative for Western Australia, my primary goal and my primary interest is to stand up and defend the interests of Western Australians and, most particularly in this case, those Western Australians whose livelihoods—let's remember this—and capacity to raise an income, support their families and support regional communities are not just a little bit but wholly dependent on live sheep exports.</para>
<para>There are a couple of things I'd like to share with the Senate in my brief contribution this morning. The first is to recount an experience and representations that were made to me by the WA Grains Group. Some people might be surprised to hear this. Why would the WA Grains Group be coming to speak to Senator Smith in regard to live sheep exports? That goes to the very critical point of why this industry is, in part, how many regional families sustain their broader agricultural interests. Secondly, I think it's always important to go back to first principles and remind people why this trade is important—why it is important for Australia and what important contribution it is making to those nations that we are exporting to. Finally, it might be worth responding to the criticism or the suggestion that the government has been slow to act and deaf to the concerns of those in the electorate who want to see tougher, more prudent animal welfare conditions by going back to what the government has said it will do in response to the McCarthy review, which arose specifically out of this.</para>
<para>If we listen to the contributions of those who have made a contribution to the debate already or those who will follow this morning, it is important to remind ourselves that the opponents of the live sheep export industry have made numerous false claims in defence of their argument. They say that the live sheep trade is in terminal decline. They say that Australian exports of live sheep are in terminal decline. They say that sheep don't get enough space under the stocking reductions in the new allowance systems recommended by Dr McCarthy, and I will come to the McCarthy review recommendations and our response to them shortly. They say that Dr Michael McCarthy's review ignores the science. They go on to say that New Zealand successfully transitioned from live sheep exports and it didn't hurt the New Zealanders. Finally, they say the farmers who are currently supplying sheep into the live export supply chain could transition to the chilled meat trade to the Middle East, which would grow to replace the live export trade. I think this idea that you can just displace one trade with another trade is the greatest myth. It goes to the very critical issue that, in regard to live sheep exports, we trade because of consumer taste. We trade because there's a consumer-driven requirement or need that we're responding to, and the chilled meat argument fails to recognise that very critical point. Finally, a subsection of the last false claim is that Qatar, Kuwait and the UAE are happy to transition to chilled meat if Australia phases out live sheep exports, which, of course, we know is not the case.</para>
<para>I just want to turn briefly to the conversation that I had in my electorate office in West Perth in response to some representations made to me, first by the Pastoralists and Graziers Association of Western Australia and then by the WA Grains Group. It was very, very insightful. Their point is a point that often gets overlooked by many people who would like to see an end to this trade, and that point was well made by Peter Stacey. Senator Brockman might recall Peter Stacey; he is a feisty character, but he made a strong and powerful argument. In that conversation, which was later reported in the <inline font-style="italic">Farm Weekly</inline>, he told what I thought was a very compelling story that put to bed some of the ignorance on which the opponents of this trade base their arguments. I quote directly from the <inline font-style="italic">Farm Weekly</inline>in July:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This autumn on our property—</para></quote>
<para>in eastern Western Australia—</para>
<quote><para class="block">we had 1200 lambs in the feedlot," he said.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"The local processor, in this case WAMMCO (Western Australian Meat Marketing Co-operative Limited), gets their pick of the lambs first and on this occasion they took 638 head.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Next we deal with the live exporter, who will hopefully take the balance of the lambs.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"We try to sell the total of all of the lambs in the feedlot now, when it’s the optimum range in terms of age and condition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"If the exporters don’t take the balance to suit their customers, then what’s left will probably go to the sale at Katanning—</para></quote>
<para>which is one of the saleyards in Western Australia—</para>
<quote><para class="block">for other producers or butchers to buy."</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">He said WAGG—</para></quote>
<para>the Western Australian Grains Group—</para>
<quote><para class="block">disagreed with the statement that processors could handle the extra sheep … if there was no live export.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"This is not correct and the processors can’t get enough workers in the abattoirs," Mr Stacey said.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"The processors want the live trade to end as this will drop the market price of sheep.</para></quote>
<para>This goes to a very, very important point: banning the live sheep export has an economic consequence across the agricultural base more broadly, and that is particularly the case in Western Australia. Peter Stacey is further quoted in the article as saying that, if there were a drop in the market price of sheep:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… growers know that would be the beginning of the end of the sheep and cattle industry, processors will have no competition.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Farmers need competition to support prices for our product and live export provides a floor in the market." WAGG believes that the lack of recognition of Australia’s high animal welfare standards, as the fourth largest exporter of live sheep in the world, was another frustration for WA farmers.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Mr Stacey said Eastern States politicians—</para></quote>
<para>in pursuing this line of action—</para>
<quote><para class="block">did not understand the WA system and the consequences to all agricultural industry businesses and exports.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"This is always a problem when there is an export-based State compared to a domestic-based State," Mr Stacey said.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"We also supply these countries with grain and hay, so why is the government upsetting our customers and putting uncertainty in the minds of potential customers with this live export ban talk?"</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Farmers work on such fine margins with all livestock and grain industries.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"Eighty to 90 per cent of WA produce is exported and this earns big dollars for the whole of Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"The east coast politicians and public should be supporting us, not banning us from doing what we do best."</para></quote>
<para>This goes to a critical point for those of us from Western Australia, including Senator Brockman and Senator Reynolds, who are also in the chamber today, who argue against a kneejerk, disproportionate response to what was, there is no doubt—and for which there can be no justification—a horrific experience for those live sheep on that vessel. But what I and others argue is that this is not systemic. This is not a systemic problem. In fact, the evidence makes it abundantly clear that, by international standards, and I would argue by community standards, the live sheep export industry in our country is performing well. That's not to say that those people who have as a broader, wider objective the ban of live exports, whether they be sheep or cattle, don't use an opportunity like the one that was presented for the world to see on that vessel to advance their arguments about undermining or bringing to an end live sheep exports, but the most critical point in all of this is that it has very real consequences for the livelihoods of Western Australia families.</para>
<para>I think it's worth putting on the record some of the important facts with regard to the Western Australian industry. It makes economic sense to support and maintain a live export trade. It is the cornerstone of Western Australia's sheep industry and contributes more than $1.4 billion to the WA economy. That $1.4 billion contribution in turn supports about 5,000 farm businesses across Western Australia, directly employing shearers, mums and dads, brothers and sisters, transporters, stock agents, feed suppliers and veterinarians, for example. Australia exported 1.5 million sheep to international markets primarily in the Middle East. In the last financial year that trade grew by 21.4 per cent. This trade is delivering for Western Australian families and businesses, for the national economy and in a way that is responsible, prudent and, I'd argue, living up to community expectations.</para>
<para>It's important to recognise that banning the Australian live sheep export trade damages Australia, damages Australian farming families and does nothing to improve the welfare standards of other nations that are engaged in this trade. You have to ask yourself: what is the real benefit or outcome when the most responsible country in this trade—that is, our own country—withdraws from the market? What does that do? Does the incentive for higher standards in the international trade remain or is the incentive for lower standards imported into that international trade? I'd argue that, once Australia withdraws from that international trade, whatever pressure there might be for higher animal welfare standards disappears. If you are genuinely concerned about the long-term change in animal welfare standards not just in this country but across the world when it comes to live exports then I'd argue that maintaining Australia's participation, not withdrawing, is the best way to protect animal welfare standards. If you're interested in the welfare of a sheep that leaves Australia, why wouldn't you be interested in the welfare of every sheep that leaves any port in Australia or indeed the world?</para>
<para>My argument is this: of the 100 countries exporting livestock around the world, Australia is the only one that invests in ensuring and improving animal welfare outcomes throughout the entire supply chain including slaughter in other countries. If your concern is the welfare of live animal exports, then surely that concern should be for every live animal no matter where it is imported from and exported to. You're arguing that the most responsible international participant withdraw from the market. I can't speak for others, but I can guess what will happen. There will be no competitive pressure for any other international exporters to improve or maintain animal welfare standards. While it looks and feels good, and might warm your heart in this country, it will over the longer term undermine animal welfare standards across the world.</para>
<para>Turning briefly to the suggestion that was made by some in earlier contributions that the government has been blind to the events on the <inline font-style="italic">Awassi</inline> and blind to community concerns, you only have to look at the response it has made to Dr McCarthy's review. In short, the government has accepted all 23 recommendations made by Dr McCarthy, subject to further testing and consultation regarding recommendation No. 4, which dealt with the heat stress risk assessment. As a result, stocking densities will be reduced. This means that sheep will get up to 39 per cent more space, reducing stocking densities by up to 28 per cent. The reportable mortality level will be halved to one per cent, which means that, if more than one per cent of sheep die, it must be reported and must be investigated. There'll be tougher, new penalties on exporters who put profit before animal welfare and break the rules. I think that is something the community will absolutely endorse and probably has been looking for. Independent observers will be placed on every voyage carrying either sheep or cattle, not just the sheep voyages during the northern summer, reporting back daily to the independent regulator.</para>
<para>These changes will deliver a seismic shift in the approach to animal welfare and will deliver truth and proof throughout the auditing process. There is now a strong incentive for investors to invest in improving boats, which improves animal welfare, rather than an incentive to run old boats at bigger profit margins. Very importantly, this will uphold and maintain the livelihoods of farmers across Western Australia, which is critically important to me, and parts of South Australia, New South Wales and Victoria, as well as the 1,800 jobs that depend on the live sheep trade. This will give important economic security to these people and their families now and into the future.</para>
<para>My final point is a simple one, and this is a point I made to Kuwaiti exporters when they came to see me: Australia has an obligation to support the food security needs of other nations, particularly those across the Middle East. Our participation in the live sheep export trade meets both a very strong consumer demand for live exports and, importantly, the need to provide sustenance to what is a very volatile part of our global community. We know that food security issues are important to all nations. They're particularly important to nations in the Middle East. Our participation in this trade meets that very important domestic requirement for reliable trade in live meat for these nations who have a very strong cultural and religious need and a very strong consumer preference for access to live meats through the live meat trade.</para>
<para>In conclusion, while this bill responds in a very disproportionate way to what was a horrific set of circumstances, that set of circumstances was unique. Those circumstances did not demonstrate a systemic problem with the live sheep export trade in our country. For those people who might be a little bit undecided or unsure about their response to this particular issue—if anyone comes to this place undecided—I plead with them to be careful and conscious that the livelihoods of ordinary men and women, particularly in my home state of Western Australia, are heavily dependent on this trade. It is a responsible trade. It is a trade that meets and exceeds international expectations, and no good would come to animal welfare standards internationally if Australia were to withdraw from this trade.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a former vet, I know a few things about animal welfare. This debate about live exports and the Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018 is not about animal welfare. I'll tell you what it's about. It's about racism. The people who buy our sheep are brown, and those who don't want to sell them our sheep look down on them. It's about arrogance. The people who oppose live exports want to tell people in other countries to get a refrigerator and buy their meat already killed and packaged, just as they do. It is about cultural imperialism. The people who buy our sheep have their own culture, which involves eating freshly killed sheep during religious festivals, even if they own refrigerators. Those opposed to live exports want to stop them doing that. Just imagine if these brown people tried to stop us eating ham at Christmas by refusing to sell us pigs.</para>
<para>It's not about animal welfare. If it were about animal welfare, we would be increasing our exports of live sheep because, the more Australia exports sheep, the less other countries export, and Australian sheep are exported more humanely, with better animal welfare, than those of any other country. Because of our ESCAS scheme, our Exporter Supply Chain Assurance System, the welfare of Australian sheep doesn't stop when they're offloaded. We actually tell people how to handle the sheep even when they're not ours. Australia is the only country in the world that actively works in overseas markets to improve animal welfare conditions. We're the only country in the world that attempts to regulate livestock exports all the way from Australian farms to feedlots and abattoirs overseas. Producer levies fund millions of dollars worth of training, education, research and development to improve animal welfare conditions during voyages and in overseas markets. We could sell a lot more sheep if we didn't have that. For example, Saudi Arabia won't buy our sheep, because the Saudis don't want us telling them how to handle them. So, of course, the Saudis buy sheep from other countries, and sheep welfare is not as high. If we were to stop exporting livestock, the welfare of animals overall would decline. In 2007, for example, Australia could not meet the Middle East demand for live animals, so animals were imported from Sudan, Somalia and Iran, countries that do not share Australia's commitment to animal welfare and, critically, may also pose animal disease risks, because Australian exported sheep and cattle enjoy the best welfare of any exported livestock in the world.</para>
<para>It is also a simple fact that boxed and chilled meat exports cannot replace livestock exports. If Australia stopped exporting live sheep and cattle, there would be not one single job created in Australia. The importing countries would simply buy their sheep from somewhere else. Even if they did start importing meat rather than live animals, they wouldn't buy it from Australia. We are a high-cost source, and they need low-cost meat.</para>
<para>Finally, let's not forget that the livestock export industry supports thousands of Australian jobs. The livestock export industry provides 13,000 jobs, including 11,000 in rural areas, to Australian workers and, in some parts of Australia, is the entire backbone of the community and economy. The supply of Australian livestock also ensures hundreds of thousands of households across Asia and the Middle East have access to essential and affordable protein. We are helping to provide protein to some of the world's poorest people. These countries do not have the resources or the geography to efficiently produce livestock to feed their people. Australia has an important role to play in providing food to Asia's growing population, and livestock exports can be part of the food solution. Calls to ban live exports are wrong from every perspective. They are racist, imperialist, arrogant and anti animal welfare.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HUME</name>
    <name.id>266499</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the private senator's bill the Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018. Of course, this piece of legislation has arisen from the very disturbing footage that we all saw, I think, on the <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program back in April, where a number of sheep on the Emanuel Exports ship were overcrowded and clearly overheated. It was profoundly upsetting, and I can understand exactly why this bill has come about in response to that. However, live sheep exports, as we know, form a very large part of the Australian agriculture industry, and the Morrison coalition government is a very strong supporter of industry in this country, unlike those who are trying to shut this down. The live export trade is certainly not a small industry. It is made up of farmers large and small across our great nation. In fact, I'm sure you've all heard the phrase that Australia is a country whose prosperity has ridden on the sheep's back.</para>
<para>The live sheep trade in Australia has a very long and highly regulated history. It began in the 1830s, believe it or not, when Victoria and Tasmania began domestic live sheep trade with fleets of 15 to 20 ships carrying loads of somewhere between 300 and 1,000 sheep. By the late 1800s, Australia had begun exporting live sheep overseas. They were first exported from Western Australia in 1845. By 1895, over 1,000 sheep were being sold for slaughter in Singapore.</para>
<para>In 1926, interestingly, the Commonwealth introduced the Navigation (Deck Cargo and Live Stock) Regulations. It was the first time the livestock export industry was regulated, and these regulations dealt with such things as the provision of feed and water for that livestock and protection from the weather in addition to drainage and the construction and cleaning of pens and stalls. Those regulations remained largely unchanged until the introduction of the Marine Orders Part 43 (Cargo and cargo handling—livestock) legislation in 1983, so quite a considerable period of time had elapsed.</para>
<para>In fact, the modern sheep export trade began in about 1945-46 when more than 24,000 sheep were sent from Western Australia to Singapore. The Middle East trade commenced in the early 1960s with the introduction of two small ships, each having a capacity of about 6,000 sheep. Prior to 1970, livestock were carried in quite small ships or as deck cargo. By the mid-1970s, ships capable of carrying around 50,000 sheep were coming into service. These were mainly converted oil tankers that had been redeployed after the 1973 oil crisis. Larger ships were subsequently converted to carry up to 125,000 sheep at a time.</para>
<para>When we started exporting live sheep to the Middle East in the 1970s, the unions were in fact the ones that kicked up the most fuss. It was the AMIEU at that stage who felt that they were being retrenched as a result of the closure of abattoirs. They blamed the expansion of the live sheep export trade for those closures. In 1982, in March and April, the Australian sheepmeat study mission to the Middle East examined the demand for sheepmeat in the Middle East, and the majority report concluded there was, in fact, no close substitute for freshly slaughtered or hot meat among the indigenous Arab population. In the dissenting report of the AMIEU at the time, the members concluded that the marketing initiatives by Australian exporters would expand the consumption of chilled and frozen mutton.</para>
<para>I thought this was quite interesting: in 1983, a severe cold snap hit Victoria and approximately 15,000 sheep died in the Portland feedlots as a result of cold, stress and exposure. This was in fact the event that focused the attention of animal welfare organisations and government authorities on the trade. As you can see, animal welfare has been at the forefront of the Australian livestock export industry for many, many years. In more recent times, the coalition government has maintained a very consistent position on the regulation of this sector, ensuring best practice is adhered to.</para>
<para>It is still a very important industry to Australia. The Australian livestock export industry provides over 13,000 jobs, including 11,000 in rural and regional areas, to Australian workers, and in some parts of Australia it is the entire backbone of the community and of the economy. The supply of Australian livestock also ensures that hundreds of thousands of households across Asia and the Middle East have access to essential and affordable protein—as mentioned by Senator Leyonhjelm previously. These countries do not have the resources or the geography to efficiently produce livestock to feed their own people. Australia is very much at the forefront of the demand for livestock exports. Some time ago, the federal government released its Asian century white paper, which showed that Australia had a very important role to play in providing food to Asia's growing population. Livestock exports are a fundamental part of that food solution.</para>
<para>Earlier this year—as you well know, Acting Deputy President—the coalition government commissioned veterinarian Dr Michael McCarthy to conduct a review into the live export trade in response to that shocking <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program. You will remember that the Minister for Agriculture, David Littleproud, said at the time that there would be no kneejerk reaction over the deaths of thousands of sheep in a live export consignment. He said that, despite the industry concern that the trade could be damaged or shut down, the response should not be kneejerk. He said he was 'shocked and gutted' by the footage, and he warned that those doing the wrong thing were 'going to get nailed'. That response prompted a little bit of concern from the industry that there would be damage to the trade, but Mr Littleproud said he would support farmers and exporters who did the right thing. He also said, however, that he would not be afraid to call out and take strong action against those who had not fulfilled their responsibilities. He suggested that we would need to create an environment where groups, whistleblowers and individuals are comfortable and confident to come forward, so that those who are doing the wrong thing can be identified and dealt with appropriately.</para>
<para>The WA Pastoralists and Graziers Association president, Tony Seabrook, said that despite the distressing nature of the incidents that were reflected on the <inline font-style="italic">Four Corners</inline> program, they did not reflect the standards of the wider live export industry. He said also that the release of the footage was motivated not by those who were responsible but by activists who were, in fact, intent on shutting the industry down for whatever motives they may have had:</para>
<quote><para class="block">"There are a group of people totally committed to shutting the industry down, they don't give a damn about the impact it might have throughout the whole length and depth of northern Australia," Mr Seabrook said.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">"There's nobody in rural Australia that deals with sheep and cattle that wants to see this sort of thing happen but what does need to be recognised is that we stand like a beacon in the darkness when it comes down to animal welfare standards, especially live export."</para></quote>
<para>That does seem to be the response of the McCarthy review.</para>
<para>Dr McCarthy's task was to review the health and welfare of sheep being transported to the Middle East during the Northern Hemisphere summer. There were 23 recommendations and the coalition government—as has already been said here this morning—accepted all 23 of those recommendations, with further review into one of those. The Department of Agriculture and Water Resources, as the independent regulator, began implementing those recommendations immediately. The changes to the regulation of the trade included a reduction in the stocking densities so that fewer sheep will be carried on a vessel at any given time. I think that that was probably one of the most shocking things about the footage: the overcrowding, which you could only imagine must intensify the already oppressive heat on those ships. Reducing stocking densities means that sheep will get up to 39 per cent more space. Stocking densities are being reduced by up to 28 per cent. That was one of the first of Dr McCarthy's recommendations. The reportable mortality level will also be halved, from two to one per cent, which means that, if more than one per cent of sheep die, that must be reported and investigated. This is a significant change.</para>
<para>All vessels carrying sheep to the Middle East during the Northern Hemisphere summer will be equipped with automated watering systems. I have to admit that I thought this was a shocking one. The fact those automated watering systems didn't already exist took me by surprise. However, that will no longer be the case. In addition, independent observers—and this is particularly important—are being placed on every livestock export voyage by sea from Australia, not just the sheep voyages, during the northern summer. Those independent observers will be reporting directly to the independent regulator.</para>
<para>These are very strong steps to ensure that this industry can continue into the future. It is truly important that it does, because there may be considerable ramifications should the live export industry slow down in the future. It is still a major source of income to farmers, particularly in WA. The demand for live sheep in the Middle East is as high as ever. For cultural, historical and economic reasons, the majority of countries in the Middle East have demand for over 50 per cent of their sheep for processing and slaughter to come locally to them. It highlights the importance of this industry to Australia.</para>
<para>It is important to note, as mentioned earlier by Senator Dean Smith, that the live export industry in Australia produces very, very high welfare outcomes and continues to improve, reducing mortality rates on average from 0.89 per cent in 2010 to 0.71 per cent in 2017. In fact, the entire industry, one could say, is being unfairly judged on actions that are not representative of the industry as a whole, by virtue of a few bad players.</para>
<para>If concern genuinely is for the welfare of the sheep, surely there would be a demand for Australia to remain in this industry and to lead by example as the most responsible international participant, as the country who has such a good record of animal welfare, not just in sheep exports but also in other forms of livestock. Theoretically, there should be more calls for Australia to stay in the market and to lead this sector. In conclusion, the acceptance of all 23 McCarthy recommendations is potentially the best example of that leadership. While this bill should be admired for its intentions, its outcomes would be catastrophic not just for the WA live sheep industry but for Australia's economy as a whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>10:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the question be now put.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [10:58]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Stoker, A</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:0</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question now is that the bill be read a second time.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:01]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE (teller)</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>27</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Stoker, A</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>11</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It's very disappointing we didn't get to speak on the Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill in a second reading debate. I would have liked to have made a second reading contribution on an issue that has the potential to cost the Western Australian agricultural community an extraordinary amount of money, taken directly out of the hands of thousands of WA farming families. I think it is a great shame that we weren't able to continue the second reading debate and be able to make contributions. I know that a number of other people in this place also wished to make a contribution on this bill at the second reading stage. Instead, we've had that debate gagged and have moved into the committee stage of the bill.</para>
<para>I have a number of questions for the proponents of this bill, which I hope they will take the time and make an effort to answer, because they are very important questions in my home state of Western Australia, and in South Australia, where the agriculture sector also relies significantly on this industry—in fact, for the entire agriculture industry across Australia. The livestock industry—not just sheep but the entire livestock industry across Australia—would like answers to some very important questions.</para>
<para>I will begin by acknowledging some of the contributions of those on this side of the chamber. In particular, there was an excellent contribution at the second reading stage from Senator Smith—another great Western Australia senator who understands the importance of this industry to the agriculture sector, particularly in West Australian but also in South Australia and in the wider Australian agricultural economy. I also acknowledge the contributions from Senators Hume and Leyonhjelm, which were excellent enunciations of the importance of the industry to Western Australia as a whole.</para>
<para>This industry is worth $1.4 billion to the Western Australia economy. It's not just about dollars. We all understand the shocking nature of the footage that was placed on TV. The industry—and I have spoken to many farmers about this—was shocked by it. My family has been involved in agriculture in Western Australia since 1830. In fact, my family was involved in the first live export to Western Australia, in a way—that is, from England to Western Australia. My forebear sailed to Western Australia in 1829 with around 40 merino sheep and from there took up a holding of land in part of the Swan River colony and helped to start what is a great industry for this nation and for my home state of Western Australia. So, that $1.4 billion is not just dollars, and we're not just putting up dollars versus the cruelty that we saw in those shots. We've got to remember that underneath that $1.4 billion there are around 5,500 sheep-producing businesses in Western Australia. Our family farm has been in sheep for a significant part of my life. In fact, particularly when my father transitioned from cattle to sheep in the early 1980s, it's been a very big part of my agricultural life. My family, and our family farm, has sold a significant number of sheep to the live export trade.</para>
<para>This bill will impact directly on those families. Trying to pretend that in some way displacing this trade to the chilled trade is going to make up the difference is simply pedalling a lie and a fantasy that will not happen. Globally, around 100 countries export livestock. The major place in which livestock is exported across borders is in fact Europe. Europe sees the most significant trade of animals across national borders in the world. Western Australia has been part of the live export trade for a very long time. One of the things that our family farm exported many, many years ago was horses for the Imperial British Army, of all things. So we've got a long history in animal welfare and live export.</para>
<para>Farmers were shocked by that footage. Farmers were as shocked by that footage as every single person in the city who saw it and was sent one of the emails that all of us received. Farmers care about their livestock. There was no time on the farm that I enjoyed more than shearing time. Shearing time was when there would be more people around, more activity. You would see how the economics of an individual farm fed out into the community. You would have the shed hands. You would have the shearers. You would have in one place all the people who rely on a vibrant, active agricultural community in the bush for the ongoing success and viability of rural communities. Shearing time is a wonderful time. But the reality is—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Who are you speaking for?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As a shearer, Senator Williams, you would surely agree! We had a shearer on our farm still shearing at 78—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I wish him well.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>and he could still do about 150 a day.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I could do that before lunch!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Today? Now you've made me lose my train of thought, Senator Williams. I shouldn't take your interjections! The economic flow-on effects of the agriculture industry are significant. Senator Dean Smith brought up the impact on the grains industry and why the grains industry in Western Australia is very concerned about the impact on the whole of agriculture. It is because you are not just looking at the direct cost of not being able to export those animals; you are looking at the flow-on costs—to the hay producers; to the grain producers; to the people who service the feedlot environment; to those who work on the ships; and to the shearing community, which relies on the number of sheep in the industry to actually maintain a viable shearing industry, which is growing increasingly hard to attract people to.</para>
<para>I brought up shearing time at the farm for a reason: those who are on the activist end of trying to have live exports banned are also against shearing. We have seen it. The same groups of people who are seeking to have live exports banned are also seeking to have shearing effectively banned. They have released footage of some very terrible examples of shearing in western New South Wales. Those images are shocking to people—and you completely understand that—but are we really going to stop shearing? Are we going to stop the wool industry, a great industry for WA and Australian agriculture? Australia rode on the sheep's back for a very long period of time. And for the first time since the creation of the wool stockpile, at the end of the wool reserve price scheme, the wool industry has been going through a sustained period of growth. It's a great fibre. It's a wonderful fibre. It's a fibre that the world demands, that the world wants, in increased quantities. It is very renewable and, obviously, the properties of wool are amazing.</para>
<para>But the sheep industry does not survive with one arrow in its quiver; the sheep industry survives because it is able to produce meat for domestic consumption, wool for export and live animals for export. To seek to end this trade in any fashion would be terribly detrimental, particularly to the sheep farmers in Western Australia. The flow-on effects would be significantly more dramatic than anyone who is seeking to vote in favour of this bill would acknowledge. The flow-on effects would be significant and quite disastrous for the agricultural industries of Australia.</para>
<para>We've seen an example where a live export destination was halted in Bahrain and the chilled and box trade did not take up the slack. They merely looked elsewhere and, as others before me have stated, they will look to countries with much-lower animal welfare standards than Australia. I've said this before; I will say it again: we do not merely export live animals; we export Australian welfare standards to all those destinations, and we've seen a dramatic impact in regard to the live cattle trade in that respect. We've seen a dramatic impact in terms of the ESCAS-approved facilities in the Middle East, and in exporting our animal welfare standards we are improving conditions around the world.</para>
<para>What's happened with Australia's quite-legitimate decision from this government to invoke the McCarthy review and to put increased restrictions in place in the summer months is that the situation with Emanuel and their licence suspensions have left a void for Western Australia, and obviously that is still an issue to be resolved. But it's not that those markets have closed down; it's merely that they have looked elsewhere. So, anecdotally, we are hearing about significant shipments of sheep going from South America and southern Africa to the Middle East in place of Australian sheep. Does anyone in this place, particularly those who are seemingly going to vote in favour of this bill, seriously believe that animal welfare standards from southern Africa and South America are living up to the animal welfare standards of Australia? They simply are not.</para>
<para>We are the only country in the world that has asked our markets—and they don't have to accept it—to accept our animal welfare standards. We are the only country in the world that has done that, and we have made a significant impact. It is my understanding that for every Australian animal that is killed in an ESCAS-approved facility overseas something like three or four animals that are sourced from elsewhere are killed in those facilities to Australian standards. We are exporting animal welfare standards, and any move to cut off the trade can only result in a negative impact on animals on an international basis.</para>
<para>I've got only 2½ minutes left, unfortunately, because we couldn't continue with our second reading debate—which I think is a disgrace. But before I do sit down I want to ask the three proponents of the bill to answer a few questions: do you truly believe in the live cattle trade? I would like an answer to that question and I think farmers across Australia would like an answer to that question. This bill deals with sheep and it deals with a five-year phase-out period. So, in five years you've got an ending of the sheep trade, but do you want to see the cattle trade ended as well? We've also heard that this is a compromise bill. Does that mean you would sooner see the live export trade and the live cattle trade ended today rather than in five years, with the commensurate impact that would have on animal welfare in Australia? And I ask you—and I ask the three proponents of this bill, quite seriously: have you gone to Western Australia, have you sat down with Western Australian farming families and have you talked to them about this bill and the impact it will have? I would like an answer to those questions.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question that this bill stand as printed be now put.</para></quote>
<para>The CHAIR: The question is that the motion as moved by Senator Di Natale to close debate be agreed to.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided [11:23]<br />(The Chair—Senator Lines)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill reported without amendment.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>14</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FARUQI</name>
    <name.id>250362</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WONG</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the question be now put.</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the question be now put.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:31]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Cash, M</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be read a third time.</para>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [11:35]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>28</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA (teller)</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>Cormann, M</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Cash, M</name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to.<br />Bill read a third time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>16</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1094" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>16</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is not my second first speech but, nonetheless, I rise to speak on the Coal-Fired Funding Prohibition Bill 2017, which is a Greens bill that would stop public money going to coal-fired power.</para>
<para>It's hard to believe we're having this debate in this day and age, when the science of climate change is abundantly clear and when the price of renewables and the ability of renewables to meet our power needs are beyond reproach. Yet here we have a government that claim to be free marketeers, when it suits them, and they want to give public money to prop up coal-fired power. They either want to build it themselves, as many of my Queensland colleagues have been pushing to do, or they want to refurbish old clunkers, which should be retired and replaced with clean energy.</para>
<para>We Greens have come to this place with a bill to say no public money for coal-fired power. It is past the time—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Speak quickly, before it's gagged!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Acting Deputy President Leyonhjelm, can you bring Senator Macdonald to order, please?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You have the call, Senator Waters.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATERS</name>
    <name.id>192970</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you. As I was saying, this bill would stop public money going to coal. They've got their hand out all the time—this industry already receives many billions of dollars every year in freebies. They get cheap diesel fuel, they get accelerated depreciation and they get a whole raft of other tax perks, which get up to about $5 billion or $6 billion depending on how you slice and dice the figures.</para>
<para>When you compare that to the donations that the coal and gas industries make to the big political parties, it's a very telling story. There's been $3.7 million given by the fossil fuel sector to Labor, to the Liberals and to the Nationals over a period of three years to 2016. What do they get for that money? They get all of their approvals, no questions asked. There has never been a coalmine or coal seam gas field rejected by either side of politics when they've been in government. And, in fact, they get all of these fossil fuel subsidies back. It's a pretty good return on investment; for every dollar that the fossil fuel industry donates to the big parties they get back $2,000 in subsidies. It's a pretty cushy deal.</para>
<para>It's a wonder, then, that they've got their hand out for even more support. They want more support through the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund for someone to build the railway for the largest proposed coalmine in the world, by Adani, and now they've got their hand out to prop up coal-fired power stations—and the government is champing at the bit to give them public money. This bill would prohibit the government from doing so. This bill shamelessly says: no money for coal-fired power stations, no money for refurbishments. Let's use some of that money to transition those communities so that we've got long-term, sustainable local economies that support those workers and communities, and let's get behind clean energy.</para>
<para>We can't buck world economics. It is perfectly clear that coal is on the way out, just as it is clear that coal is killing people. It is killing our reef. We've lost 50 per cent of our coral cover in the Great Barrier Reef World Heritage Area already. Coal is killing people with its toxic emissions when burnt. The coal industry is already heading towards automation, and people are losing their jobs. If we want to create jobs, protect the climate and save our reef then renewables are the way to go. It is perfectly clear to us. I am really proud to be speaking in support of this Greens bill, and I would urge both sides of politics to return their fossil fuel donations and vote for job creation and clean energy with the science and with the community. I won't be holding my breath, though, because we saw our new Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, when Treasurer, brandish a lump of coal and tell us all there was nothing to worry about. I think the latest national climate policy is: 'Let's pray for rain.' I am not a religious person myself, but I won't be betting the house on prayer being the answer to climate change. With all due respect to the Prime Minister, I think the Australian community deserves slightly more from a climate policy than praying for rain.</para>
<para>We've seen the politics of climate change continue to roll out. We now have a new Prime Minister. The former Prime Minister got dumped for espousing Tony Abbott's targets. It's sort of ironic that the targets that then Prime Minister Tony Abbott signed this nation up to, which are woefully inadequate, were seen to be too tight and too tough on the fossil fuel industry such that then Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull was rolled and our current Prime Minister—who has abandoned the National Energy Guarantee altogether and who has said that emissions are a distant priority and that bringing down power prices is the main priority—was installed. I've got a suggestion for the Prime Minister: you can fix electricity prices; why don't you just re-regulate them? You're the Prime Minister. You've got the numbers, or may soon have the numbers—well, maybe not so much in Wentworth—or perhaps you won't be in government anymore. The point is that this parliament has the ability to re-regulate power prices.</para>
<para>So, rather than pointing the finger and giving public money to try and prop up coal, this government should do its job, regulate to reduce power prices and invest in clean energy. That will set us up for the future. It will protect what's left of our precious Great Barrier Reef. It will help safeguard us from the devastating extreme weather events that are wreaking havoc on our communities and wreaking absolute havoc on our regional neighbours. We know that renewables are cheaper. We know they will bring down the cost of power. We know we can transition those communities onto clean energy. We know we don't want the hypocrisy of this government, which claims to back the free market but wants to give handouts to the coal industry.</para>
<para>It is my great pleasure to be speaking in support of this bill. For the sake of future generations—and for our regional neighbours who are starting to drown and for whom the saltwater incursion on their food-producing land is a serious problem—I call on both sides of politics to support this bill.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Before I begin, I welcome Senator Waters back to the chamber for the resumption of her term. Before I turn to the substance of the Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017, I want to make one brief observation about the debate and the process on the previous bill, the Animal Export Legislation Amendment (Ending Long-haul Live Sheep Exports) Bill 2018, that the chamber just considered. If there is one positive thing to come from the passage of that bill and the way in which it was passed, I hope it will be that it brings to an end the pious sanctimony that we often hear from the crossbench, from the Greens and from the Labor Party about the gagging of debates in this chamber—about bringing debates to an end so that a vote can be held—because not once, not twice but three times this chamber was gagged. Senators were prevented from making a contribution on the bill. In a debate that lasted no more than one hour this morning, when there was a long speaking list, with many senators who wished to make contributions, they were cut short. In the committee stage of the bill, only one senator was allowed to make a contribution, when there were many others who wished to. So I'm sure we'll never again hear from the Greens, the Labor Party or the crossbench, if another bill is ever gagged in this chamber, any complaints at all about process, truncating debate or getting on with the business of the chamber. I look forward to them consistently upholding the standard which they have displayed here this morning on this bill.</para>
<para>Turning to the actual bill before us now, in a sense I was pleasantly surprised when I heard about this private member's bill from the Greens today because I thought it was quite novel. It is a red-letter day. We have found an area of government spending that the Greens don't like. Normally the Greens are all for government spending and subsidies. They love nothing more than collecting tax from the Australian people—it would be as much of it as possible, if we allowed them to—and then them 'wisely' disbursing that tax in the form of grants, handouts and subsidies to their favoured friends in their favoured industries. But we have found at least one area in which they think it is not a good idea to do that. I'm hoping that that, again, is progress from the Greens. I hope we will see them apply this standard consistently across the board to other areas. If they are so concerned about subsidies, as Senator Waters seemed to be in her contribution to the debate, maybe we'll see them extend this logic to other areas of subsidies. Perhaps they might even turn that logic to the renewable energy industry and the generous billions of dollars of subsidies it's received over the years from this place.</para>
<para>I found Senator Waters' contribution on the question of donations to be particularly ironic. Senator Waters' contention is that fossil fuel industries have benefited from the political process by supporting political parties and then receiving taxpayer handouts. Well, if they ever have, the renewable energy industry has learnt very wisely from them. It has followed them very closely and emulated their behaviour, including, by the way, with generous donations to the Greens. The renewable energy industry is among the many generous supporters of the Greens political party, and we have here in the chamber today the Greens advocating a position that is substantially to the interest of the renewable energy industry. If we follow the logic deployed by Senator Waters in her contribution to this debate, there must be something sinister going on there, there must be some kind of connection between the financial support of the renewable energy industry—all the donations they make, all the functions they attend and all the support they give to the Greens party—and the position the Greens advocate in this chamber and, in fact, the billions of dollars of taxpayers' money that the Greens political party advocates handing out to the renewable energy industry.</para>
<para>My view is that it would be best if we subsidised no forms of energy, if we allowed all forms of energy to equally compete on a level playing field. Unfortunately, in the last decade of climate policy and energy policy in this country, that has not been the case. The renewable energy industry in particular has done exceptionally well out of taxpayers and exceptionally well out of favourable regulation, which has aided its growth immeasurably.</para>
<para>There is nothing, though, to fear for the Greens or anyone else watching this debate from the ACCC recommendations made to the government which the government has signalled that it will proceed with. One ACCC recommendation in particular is that, given the disaster of climate policy and energy policy over the last decade in this country, it is necessary for the government to intervene to assist the creation of new dispatchable energy in the market. What the ACCC recommends, in a technology-neutral and technology-agnostic way, is that government underwrite the creation of new dispatchable energy. The ACCC doesn't specify what form the energy should take. It doesn't say that this energy should be coal fired, gas fired, nuclear, wind, solar or geothermal. It just says that new dispatchable power, power that is available when it is needed and when it is demanded—and we sadly know the intermittent nature of renewable energy means that until it can be sufficiently firmed with back-up batteries or other supports it is not dispatchable—does need to be created in Australia. It needs to be created because Australians like to know that, when they flick the light switch, the lights will come on. They do like to know that, when they hit the power button on the aircon, it will come on. They do want to know that their computer, TV, fridge, microwave and radio will work when they switch the power on. But, without new dispatchable power generation being brought into the market, they can't be assured that that will be the case, let alone be assured that they'll be able to do so in an affordable way. We have heard loud and clear from many Australians the way in which they are struggling with rising energy prices. They are absolutely laser-like in their focus, as we need to be in ours, on getting those prices down.</para>
<para>Why is it that in the last decade no new coal-fired power station has been built in Australia? 2007 is the last year in which one was built. The reason is not that a new high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power station is uneconomic; in fact, they are very competitive on price terms. The reason is not that people are unwilling to, or uninterested in, building one of these coal-fired power stations, which would lower the cost of electricity, provide electricity on a reliable basis and, at the same time, have the benefit of producing lower emissions compared to existing coal-fired power stations. The reason no-one has built one is that if you are an investor in this industry and you are contemplating building a coal-fired power station—or, indeed, any power station—you need to generate a return on investment over a 10- to 15-year investment horizon. You can't just invest for three, four or five years; you need to have confidence that your investment will be able to be returned on a long time horizon, because there are very high capital costs involved. If you are an investor in this industry and you are contemplating your investment in a coal-fired power station, you have to take into account not just the policy settings of today but the likely policy settings of the future. If you were able to be sure that the policy settings of today would stay in place in perpetuity, then you would invest with confidence and know you would get a good return on your investment, on your outlay of capital.</para>
<para>However, if, like me, you fear that one day in that 10- to 15-year time horizon there may be another Labor government, or even another Labor government that relies on the support of the Greens in order to form government or in order to transact any business in this chamber, then you'll be thinking: 'Oh-oh, the coal-fired power station that I might be willing to build—or the gas-fired power station or whatever style of power station I might be willing to build—might be hit by a carbon tax, might be hit by an emissions trading scheme, might be hit by an emissions intensity scheme, might be hit by some other scheme for which they will come up with a different name but will have the same effect.' Your investment will be damaged by a future Labor-Greens government. People in business, people who invest in this industry, people who provide capital in this industry, prudently and wisely are holding back.</para>
<para>What the ACCC recommendation helps us do is overcome that political risk. It helps us to overcome that regulatory risk. It says to the investors in those industries: 'You can invest with confidence. Even if there is a change of government, your investment will be secure.' And I think that is a really important and appropriate signal that we need to send to the market.</para>
<para>My friend the learned Senator McKim from Tasmania has been interjecting throughout this debate about how renewables are cheaper. Well, if it were the case it would be a wonderful thing. There would be no need for a renewable energy target. There would be no need for the Australian Renewable Energy Agency. There would be no need for the Clean Energy Finance Corporation. In fact, I am sure that the Greens, with their new principled opposition to taxpayer subsidies as enunciated in this debate, would be the first to stand up and say we can get rid of all these subsidies because renewables are so competitive in their own right they don't need any assistance at all. I look forward to them bringing that bill to the next private senators' time to be debated. I hope that it is because I'm sure that the Greens are being consistent not just favouring one form of energy over the other.</para>
<para>The truth is that the rest of the world is getting on with building high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power stations and other traditional fossil fuel powered power stations. They are building them because they are reliable, they are building them because they are cheap and they are building them because they reduce emissions over the existing stock that they are replacing. There are, I am advised, 400 new units being built in China alone, which are replacing old polluting plants, and they have plans for hundreds more. A recent IEA Clean Coal Centre report noted that China's embrace of high-efficiency, low-emissions technology had reduced its emissions footprint by 450 million tonnes of CO2 per annum. The Greens tell us that their priority is to reduce CO2 emissions, but, when provided with a viable way of doing so that is also reliable and cheap, for some reason they don't support it. Japan, which is a pioneer in the area of high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power stations already has plans to build an additional 45 coal plants. India has plans for 600 plants and there are plans for dozens of others across South-East Asia, including in Bangladesh and elsewhere.</para>
<para>Famously, even in the heart of Europe, even emissions-conscious Germany is building its own new low-emission coal plants, which have the great feature of being able to ramp up and ramp down relatively quickly to compensate for the intermittent nature of the renewable energy plants which they are also building. Uniquely in Germany the high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power stations that they are building are not just black coal power stations—and we have decent stores of black coal in this country, particularly in New South Wales and Queensland. They are also building high-efficiency, low-emissions brown coal-fired power stations. We have hundreds of years of brown coal source in my home state of Victoria. We'd be very happy to see an energy industry investor enter the market to build a high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power station using brown coal in my home state of Victoria.</para>
<para>Colleagues, I think we should take this bill for what it is. It is the Greens adopting their usual ideological approach to energy; their obsession with renewables at the exclusion of all else; their obsession in the face of facts and evidence about the emissions reductions that high-efficiency, low-emissions coal-fired power stations can deliver; and their obsession with, apparently, aiding an industry which has also been a generous political supporter of theirs, if we are to take them at their own words about what they believe the impacts of donations are on the policies of political parties in this place.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>11:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017 represents one of the extremes of the energy debate in this country. It expresses a kind of superstitious horror of fossil fuels in its desire to shut down all coal-fired power generators as soon as possible. I could take the Greens far more seriously when it comes to energy policy if they didn't have such an appalling track record. It's almost eight years now since they rejected the climate change policies of the Labor Party, which would have seen in place climate change policies which would have advanced this country dramatically from where we are at the moment.</para>
<para>Rarely does one bother to think about just how realistic their propositions are. This bill and the Greens represent one extreme in the energy debate. The other extreme is represented by the government, which has absolutely capitulated on the issue of climate change. It has done so because this Prime Minister is now bound hand and foot by the climate change denialists within his ranks. On the weekend, the Prime Minister announced the government had abandoned the National Energy Guarantee, the so-called NEG, and along with it any commitment to meet the cuts to carbon emissions which were required under the Paris carbon agreement.</para>
<para>We have these two extremes in the energy debate. They have one thing in common: they have elevated a sense of religion over science and fact. Of the two, the greater fault is the government's, because it has failed to deliver a coherent energy policy at any time in the last five years that it's been in office. It has failed to appreciate that what is needed for householders, for Australian industry and for the future of this nation is a comprehensive energy policy which allows us to deal with the fundamental facts in regard to the future of climate change and the need to ensure that we have sufficient energy to secure the future of our industries in this country.</para>
<para>Malcolm Turnbull, upon his removal, made it all very, very clear. I want to quote him directly. He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In terms of energy policy and climate policy, I think the truth is that the Coalition finds it very hard to get agreement on anything to do with emissions.</para></quote>
<para>He said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I mean the National Energy Guarantee was or is, a vitally piece of economic reform. It remains the Government's policy, of course.</para></quote>
<para>And he said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the emissions policy, emissions issues and climate policy issues have the same problem within the Coalition of bitterly entrenched views that are actually sort of more ideological views, than views based as I say, in engineering and economics.</para></quote>
<para>There he is, on his way out the door, expressing the view sharply, directly and unequivocally that the Liberal Party is simply not able to deal with these fundamental issues which are so important to the future of this nation. The government that's now in office has simply abandoned households, abandoned industry, deserted Australian industry and deserted blue-collar workers, and it thinks it's better to somehow or other pretend that the Australian people aren't interested in the issues around the future of this nation in regard to climate change.</para>
<para>Every business group in this country was supporting development in regard to the National Energy Guarantee. What was this government's response?</para>
<para>It was to run out some $9 million worth of TV advertisements with regard to their campaign, Powering Forward: A better energy future for Australia. That's their idea of an energy policy: run TV ads rather than deal with the big questions that actually confront the future of this nation.</para>
<para>When the new Prime Minister was Treasurer he assured us this energy guarantee would be delivered, but as Prime Minister he turned his back on it because he knew what the price was for securing the support of the Liberal Party party room, and that was that he had to capitulate to the knuckle draggers who actually run the Liberal Party—the knuckle draggers who don't want to face up to the fundamentals when it comes to the issues of climate change; the knuckle draggers who have plagued this government, as Mr Turnbull has said, and who are unable to come to terms with basic questions with regard to emissions and unable to come to terms with the ideological divisions within their ranks, rather than deal with the engineering, the science and the economics of climate change.</para>
<para>We saw that the new Treasurer, Mr Frydenberg—who had championed the NEG throughout recent months—told ABC <inline font-style="italic">Insiders</inline> how disappointed he was and that he'd been of the view that the policy was about walking away from what was practical. He referred to Mr Turnbull's remarks. He didn't actually quote him directly, because Mr Turnbull had belled the cat. He made it very clear that the Liberal Party is just not able to deal with this fundamental question. He said it was something to do with the parliament. But we all know the reality is this: within the Liberal Party itself, there is a group of extreme reactionaries who were not prepared to vote to support the position that their party room had on three occasions agreed should be the position of the government. They were not able to support that position on the floor of the House of Representatives. So we've got a new Prime Minister as a consequence. Mr Turnbull lost his position as the Leader of the Liberal Party for the second time on this question of the future of the Liberal Party's policy on climate change.</para>
<para>We have a new Prime Minister who says he's going to be more genuine and he's more sincere than the old Prime Minister. To quote Groucho Marx, 'In politics, sincerity is everything. Once you can fake that you've got it made.' That's clearly the case with this Prime Minister, because it won't be long before people wake up to the proposition that he's actually incapable of dealing with the issue of carbon emissions and that, as a consequence, he's not able to deal with the issue of the price of electricity, let alone the security of supply of electricity.</para>
<para>Mr Frydenberg is in the business of quoting famous people. On <inline font-style="italic">Insiders </inline>he said it was Bismarck who said, 'Politics is the art of the possible.' He's no fool, Mr Frydenberg, but he failed to articulate how we can ensure that households and businesses are able to have both reliability and affordability, and ensure that we have an effective response to climate change.</para>
<para>This is an admission of defeat by this government. A claim that this government is simply about reducing prices ahead of reducing carbon prices is an acknowledgement that the knuckle draggers within the Liberal Party have won. As a consequence of that, you can see why it is that so many moderates within the Liberal Party itself are walking away. They are simply not able to defend a Liberal Party position that doesn't sustain the view that they are in fact a liberal party, a progressive party—as Mr Turnbull said in his exit interview. It is why the business community is not likely to support this government, why the business community is not supporting this government and why it is that so many business groups are flocking to Labor—because they do know that it is possible to secure reliability, affordability and security in terms of dealing with the fundamental issues of climate change. They know that the party that can actually do that is the one that provides them with the security to invest in the future.</para>
<para>What we do know, of course, is that the Liberal Party is saying, 'We're in the business of looking forward,' with the prospect of saving as much of the furniture as they can. They're no longer actually in the business of trying to win an election; they're in the business of trying to secure as many of the seats that they currently hold when they face the electorate at some point. But, in the process, they've actually debased the whole proposition of what it is to be a conservative government. What they've sought to do is to argue a position while not being able to hold up any consistent policy when it comes to energy and not actually being able to articulate a case of how it is that we can look with any confidence towards the future.</para>
<para>And what's been the response from the moderates within the Liberal Party? Well, so far, what we've seen over the last fortnight since the change in the Prime Minister's position—and we've had no formal explanation, by the way, as to why it was that Mr Turnbull had to be removed—is the leaking of polling which showed that Mr Turnbull was on the verge of success. That was the first thing. Then, of course, we saw the leaking of the material out of the cabinet room that there was a massive infrastructure program which was about to be released and which would have secured a whole range of seats that otherwise were going to be lost. We had the leak in regard to the schools, with the deal that was to be done particularly with the Catholic schools. That would have been available, and therefore secured the future of the government.</para>
<para>Then, of course, we had the proposition about the energy payments that would be made to various disadvantaged groups. That was released twice, I might add. We saw the proposition that the deputy leadership of the Liberal Party was in fact offered to Mr Dutton. Then we had the arguments around the former deputy leader, Ms Bishop, who stood aside—about the way in which she was treated, the attitudes towards her, the various statements about the way she'd been mistreated and the flagrant assaults upon her character within those processes.</para>
<para>We have a Liberal Party that is fundamentally dysfunctional. There is chaos wherever you look, and yet we are told that somehow or other these issues will be brushed aside. Through a series of TV advertisements—$9 million worth—we're told that we'll be able to fix up all our problems and we should be confident that there'll be an answer to all our difficulties. When the new Minister for Energy was announced, Angus Taylor, straightaway we had Liberal Party figures expressing their views to the media that they were dismayed, if I can quote directly:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… dismayed at the direction of the Morrison administration’s energy policy and concerned at the appointment of Mr Taylor, who has campaigned against wind farms and renewable energy subsidies.</para></quote>
<para>And:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A senior NSW government source said the federal Coalition’s avoidance of emissions reduction was "just putting off the inevitable".</para></quote>
<para>So we've got a government that's essentially in the process of collapse as we now face the facts that they are seeking to avoid in the run-up to this next election.</para>
<para>What we do know is simply this: based on the government's own modelling, we were told that the National Energy Guarantee was a way in which we could bring together the broadest possible coalition of support that could provide security for future investment; that, it was argued by the government, could meet our international obligations; that could provide investment security, if we could get broad support across the parliament; and that could also reduce prices. In fact, it was said, according to the modelling by the Energy Security Board, that the NEG would deliver $500 savings per household, but that if it were not introduced—if it were not implemented—then there would be a cost to households of $300; it would actually lead to price rises of $300.</para>
<para>The Labor Party took the view that the government's position on the NEG was nowhere near ambitious enough, that we weren't able to meet our international obligations given that the targets were so low, and that's why we needed an orderly transition away from reliance on fossil fuels, but we had to do so by ensuring that the energy mix was able to be sustained in a realistic way but at the same time reduce our overall carbon emissions. We said that could be done, and we made the point on numerous occasions that Labor had always said—and I quote directly from Mr Shorten's remark—that there was a future for coal and that coal-fired power stations were going to be part of the energy mix for the foreseeable future. Labor said that we had a goal of 50 per cent reductions by 2030, and Mr Shorten indicated that they should not be engaged in 'expensive investment in new coal-powered stations beyond their technical operating life'.</para>
<para>We relied upon the Chief Scientist's emphatic proposition that emissions could steadily be reduced, and that would of course involve using various sources of alternative energy. Dr Finkel had produced a report for the COAG Energy Council and had demonstrated that it was possible to sustain future investment in such a way as to secure the future, particularly in regard to natural gas but also in regard to hydrogen. Now, the Greens don't particularly want to talk about natural gas, because that's a fossil fuel, and they certainly don't want to talk about hydrogen. Dr Finkel recently produced yet another report about the benefits of hydrogen as an export industry for this country. He argues that, unlike gas or petrol, where hydrogen is burned there are no carbon dioxide emissions, only water vapour, and renewable hydrogen can be produced either by electrolysis of water or by splitting molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. It can also be produced from brown coal, which is a proposition that we don't hear anything at all about from the Greens.</para>
<para>I think the extraction of hydrogen from fossil fuels does produce carbon dioxide emissions and therefore does require us to deal with the issues regarding carbon capture and storage. That's why I say, in regard to the consultation with industry stakeholders, particularly in manufacturing, that it is extremely important that, if we are to talk about the future of steelmaking, aluminium and aluminium refining, and the manufacture of cement and fertiliser, we need to understand that these consume vast amounts of energy. They employ hundreds of thousands of blue-collar Australians. They require a continuous power supply, which must be catered for into the future. That's of course a position that the Labor Party takes particular note of, but it is not a position that we hear sufficient weight given to. To destroy those industries would be nothing short of economic vandalism, not to mention the social consequences of destroying the communities that depend on them. I think that any advanced industrial country like Australia is entitled to see advocates come forward to defend those communities, and that's not what we're hearing from those at the end of this chamber or, frankly, from those on the other side of this chamber.</para>
<para>This bill does not acknowledge the importance of those communities to the future of this country. The former Prime Minister's reluctance to do anything more than give gas producers a slap on the wrist or for them to understand the significance of longer-term policy certainty to secure the future of our gas supplies or pricing arrangements for our manufacturing speaks volumes on the failure of this government. But the fundamental failure is highlighted by the former Prime Minister's acknowledgement, where he said that the issue in terms of the Liberal Party itself was:</para>
<quote><para class="block">In terms of energy policy and climate policy, I think the truth is that the Coalition finds it very hard to get agreement on anything to do with emissions. … I mean, the National Energy Guarantee was or is, a vitally piece of economic reform. It remains the Government's policy, of course.</para></quote>
<para>Well, as of today, I understand that's no longer the case. It's no longer a vital piece of economic reform. We've gone back to a position where the knuckle draggers are now dominating yet another Prime Minister, and another Prime Minister is making exactly the same mistakes as his predecessor made. Mr Turnbull made a terrible error—that the mortgage for taking up the keys to the Lodge was that he would be dominated by the people who have no commitment to the future of this nation. As a consequence, we now have a situation where the emissions issue and the climate policy issue have the same problem within the coalition—bitterly entrenched views that are actually more ideological than based on, and I quote Mr Turnbull again, 'engineering and economics'. That's a fundamental failure of this government with regard to understanding the future of this nation. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Coal-Fired Power Funding Prohibition Bill 2017. Many, many Australians are very confused when it comes to climate change and what they've been told. We have one side of politics and some scientists telling us the world is basically coming to an end and we're destroying ourselves, and then we have the other side of politics and other scientists saying, 'No, it's not.' Over a period of time I have seen this become a political football. It has been used by individuals, companies, multinationals and different ones to line their own pockets with business. That's what it has become—a business, at the cost of many Australians. It's going to cost us jobs. It's costing us livelihoods. It's putting a strain on many homes and families across our nation.</para>
<para>This issue has been taken up around the world. This is something that was started many years ago, even a couple of decades ago—when this was all put into place—and we're wearing the effects of it now. I speak to many companies and businesses who are actually struggling to pay their power bills. I speak to many families who have had a shock when they've opened up their power bill and found that it had more than doubled in a very short period of time. And yet we sit here and hear the Greens with their same old rhetoric—that if we don't do anything about this, the reef is going to die. Where is the evidence that the reef is actually dying? I have dived on the reef, and the coral does die, but that is a part of nature and has been happening for many, many years. The first time it was ever reported was around 1936. Climate change was not the issue then, nor was it spoken about at that time, but the coral was dying. It rebuilds itself within a year. This is due to the organisms of the coral itself.</para>
<para>They also say the water temperature is rising; it's heating, and that is killing our coral. How can they explain the fact that, if you go closer to the equator, the coral growing around Indonesia is thriving? It's not dying. The water temperatures are higher. This argument is being used as fearmongering to push their point. And they say the point is about coal—'Coal is killing it'—and that's why they're anti Adani opening up. Yet the Adani mine is 388 kilometres from the coast, and then from the coast it's about another 50 kilometres to the reef. I'd like to know how it's happening, because once the coal is dug out of the ground we're very stringent on how it's transported. It's all covered. Even going to the ports, it's all covered. We've had coalmining in this country for how long? Over a hundred years. We've still got a reef. The way they're talking you'd think the whole reef is about to die completely. This is being used as their ploy. There is no science to it whatsoever.</para>
<para>They say the government is a free marketeer and wants to subsidise the coal-fired power stations. If that is the case, it would be a loan from Efic, which will be repaid by any company that takes on building a new coal-fired power station—a new one!</para>
<para>We're debating about one new power station in this whole country, yet around the world 1,600 are being built now or are in process for the future—1,600! China is building around four a week. We've got countries like Poland building power stations, as are Japan and Germany—all these countries. Do you understand— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018, Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>23</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
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            <p>
              <a href="r6081" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6072" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6073" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>23</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018. Labor has a real plan to rein in soaring private health insurance costs by capping premium price increases at two per cent for two years, effectively tying them to general inflation. A Shorten Labor government will deliver real relief for the 13 million Australian consumers struggling with the cost of living. This strong policy will put an average of $340 back in the pockets of Australian families. That's only fair, given that wages are so low and private health insurance profits are so high. We're shifting the balance back to ordinary Australians.</para>
<para>For decades, Australians have been getting whacked by premium price rises that are double and even triple the rate of inflation. Families are now paying $1,000 more every year for private health insurance than they were when the Liberals came to power in 2013. Labor's policy will deliver the smallest premium price rises in decades. More than that, Labor's policy will deliver much-needed certainty so that Australians can plan their household budgets around these more modest increases—no more February surprises when the insurance companies say, 'Hey, your premiums will rise by four, five or even six per cent on 1 April.'</para>
<para>We believe private health insurance plays an important role in Australia's world-class health system. We're not looking to dismantle it. But this is an industry that gets $6 billion in taxpayer subsidies every year. Australians are entitled to demand a better deal. Alongside Labor's policy of an unprecedented two per cent cap, we will also order a sweeping Productivity Commission review of private health insurance. This inquiry will give us ideas on how to bring down the cost and improve the quality and value over the longer term.</para>
<para>In contrast to Labor's bold plan, the package the government announced in October last year is underwhelming. After two years of talking, the best the government could come up with was a range of mostly minor changes. They're really only tinkering around the edges, which isn't surprising given how closely the government collaborated with private health insurers in devising this package. The opposition welcomes the elements of the government's bills that strengthen the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman. We also welcome changes that allow insurers to cover travel and accommodation costs under hospital treatment products, in order to help people in rural and remote areas of Australia.</para>
<para>However, Labor has raised concerns with this legislation around the issues of maximum excesses, age based discounts and the termination of products. The bill before us allows insurers to offer maximum excesses of $750 for singles and $1,500 for families. This is up from $500 and $1,000 respectively. The government is trading higher excesses for lower premiums. We are concerned that consumers will opt for higher excesses they will not be able to afford to pay when care is needed, forcing them into the public system and further eroding the value of private health insurance. The bills also allow insurers to offer age based discounts to young people, requiring amendment to the Age Discrimination Act. Insurers will be able to discount hospital cover premiums by two per cent for each year a person is aged under 30, for a maximum of 10 per cent.</para>
<para>Labor fears this will be an insufficient incentive for individuals to take out private health insurance but expensive for insurers, possibly increasing premiums for others. Under these changes, a young person signing up to an average $1,800 policy will save only around 70c a week, not even enough money to buy one coffee a month. The change also undermines the important principle of community rating under which policyholders are supposed to pay the same premium for the same product, regardless of age. This hints at an Americanised model that would not be welcomed here in Australia. These bills will allow insurers to terminate products and to transport all people covered by these products to a new policy.</para>
<para>Labor is also increasingly concerned about the government's change to insurance categorisation laws. These rules are not detailed in these bills. Those details are apparently going to come later in the form of regulation. But this new system deserves some comment, nevertheless. The government claims its new gold, silver and bronze basic system will make private health insurance simpler and more affordable. It also claims that the changes will give consumers more clarity and certainty around their coverage. Labor support the idea of simplifying private health insurance policies so Australians can make more informed choices and we are certainly committed to delivering more affordable insurance. However, we note there is growing anxiety about the government's changes amongst patients, clinicians and industry groups. Most recently, a number of stakeholders have expressed concerns that people suffering from chronic pain will only be covered if they hold the most expensive gold level of coverage. One in five Australians will suffer from chronic pain in their lifetime. Many of these people are already missing out on treatment that could improve their health and quality of life. We are concerned the government's changes will make life even harder for many of these people.</para>
<para>How does the government justify this? What is the government doing to make sure people with chronic pain aren't left disadvantaged through either higher premiums or poorer coverage as a result of these changes? Will people be forced to pay more to maintain their current level of coverage or will they be forced to accept a lower level of coverage because they cannot afford to upgrade? Either way, we are concerned this may have the unintended consequence of accelerating the private health insurance extras that are putting the entire industry at risk.</para>
<para>The Senate inquiry we initiated has not entirely allayed our concerns on these issues. However, on balance, we will not oppose these bills, but we will closely monitor the impact of these measures and we hope they will not have unintended consequences. Ultimately, we do not believe these bills will deliver significant savings to Australian consumers. That's not just us saying that. Groups like the AMA and some of the health funds themselves have said the same thing. Having said that, we believe that Australians need and deserve every bit of price relief they can get.</para>
<para>I would also like to foreshadow Labor's position on the Greens second reading amendment. Labor do not share the Greens' position on the private health insurance rebate. We recognise it is an important incentive for some people to maintain private health insurance coverage. However, we have already announced that a Labor government would refer the entire private health system to the Productivity Commission, with a focus on affordability and value for consumers. Labor will therefore support this amendment. I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">", but the Senate condemns the Government for putting insurer profits before patients, forcing Australians to either drop their private health insurance, or pay more and more for less and less."</para></quote>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018. I flag now that the Australian Greens will move amendments to improve this bill because what we've got before us needs significant improvement. Let's look at what we're doing right now with the private health insurance industry. We are on track to spend $26.5 billion on the private health insurance rebate over the next four years. That's three times more than we are spending on vocational education and TAFE. It's double what we spend on paid parental leave. It is more than we spend on veterans and the families of veterans, the ABC and SBS, renewable energy and natural disaster relief combined. This is a policy that is a complete and utter failure, because nobody can tell you what on earth we get for that $26 billion expenditure.</para>
<para>I've just heard from the Labor Party. I welcome their contribution. But, as always, the Labor Party have said that they don't support the principle of where this bill is going, yet they won't oppose it. They've expressed concerns, but they won't oppose it. It seems that the Labor Party's going to need some health care of their own to have the splinters removed from their backsides, because they continue to walk both sides of the fence. What we have, according to Jenny Macklin, who was then the Labor Party spokesperson on health, is 'the worst example of public policy' she'd ever seen in Australia—Jenny Macklin's words, the Labor member who was spokesperson for health at the time when the private health insurance rebate was introduced. It is the worst case of public policy making that she's seen, and yet here we are with the Labor Party saying they're going to back it.</para>
<para>We don't expect anything else from members of this government. Of course they're going to back a cashed-up corporate interest. They're going to support the private health insurance industry because their mates working in that sector are pleased to be able to offer the sort of largesse to big business that these rebates offer to the big end of town. And they've never supported universal health care. They fought Medicare every step of the way. We don't expect anything from this Liberal coalition government. But it is so disappointing that, with the Labor Party expressing concern about this policy, they have indicated that they ultimately will support these measures and ultimately will do nothing to redirect the private health insurance rebate into public health care where it belongs.</para>
<para>The private health insurance industry right now is dependent on these government subsidies. It relies on the largesse from the public purse to encourage people to buy products they don't want and don't need. We've got a range of sticks. We have the Medicare levy surcharge that says to somebody, 'If you don't take it out, you will receive an additional tax cost.' Well, if we have a progressive income tax system in this country, there is nothing wrong with people on higher incomes paying a higher level of taxation; they shouldn't get a discount for taking out private health insurance. We have lifetime health cover, which penalises people two per cent of the cost of the premium for every year over 30 they're not in private health insurance.</para>
<para>And, of course, we have the private health insurance rebate. The rebate was worth $6.6 billion in 2015-16. There was $1.6 billion in tax-free income for those who got the rebate. There is an estimated $1 billion in exemption of taxpayers from the Medicare levy surcharge, and $2 billion for the estimated cost to taxpayers of the higher costs and unnecessary treatments that are subsidised. So what we have is over $10 billion redirected from the public purse to those people who have private health insurance, who, by and large, are on high incomes—not exclusively, though, but we know that the breakdown of people with private health insurance skews towards people on higher incomes. We have this massive redistribution—$10 billion every year—that could be going into public health care. Yet where is it going? It's going to line the pockets of big insurers who make billions of dollars in profits as a result of these massive subsidies.</para>
<para>Meanwhile, right now in Australia, we have 40 per cent of Australians who earn less than $75,000 a year and can't afford to even go and see a dentist. We have people who don't want to go out at night, who don't want to socialise, because they're ashamed of the way they look, because they can't get access to dental care in this country—they simply can't afford it. Yet here we are, with a multibillion-dollar annual bill, propping up an industry that most consumers actually believe doesn't offer any value to them. We know, from the evidence that we've heard, that they themselves can't say what value the taxpayer is getting for that extraordinary taxpayer subsidy. CHOICE CEO Alan Kirkland said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It's hard to imagine any other area of public expenditure where you have the same number of Australians contributing from their own pockets, with significant public expenditure and subsidies backing that up, without us having clear data on what we're getting in return.</para></quote>
<para>Australian taxpayers are spending billions of dollars for very little in return. This is money that, if it was invested in the public health system, if it was invested in Medicare-funded dental care, would deliver a huge health dividend for the Australian community.</para>
<para>What this bill does is let insurers offer discounts to young people as a way to get more young people to purchase private health insurance. Why do we want to do that? Why is the government aiming to do that? It is very, very clear. The more young people you have with private health insurance the less likely they are to make claims and the better the value of that product. What we're effectively saying to young people in this country is, 'We want you to take out private health insurance, not because it's of value to you'—in fact, quite the opposite—'but because it will subsidise the health care of those people who are much more likely to use that policy.' Yet again we're encouraging young people to do something against their own interests, indeed, to screw them over, as this government is doing, whether it be on health care, housing, climate change or education, rather than investing in the public health care that we know benefits them and everybody else. That's the big problem we have right now. We've got a government desperate to prop up a system that's failing and trying to recruit customers for whom the product has little or no value. The bill also allows insurers to offer higher maximum excesses in exchange for lower premiums. If you take those two things together, what you've effectively got is a product that's targeted at young people but one that they wouldn't buy at a higher price and that they're less likely to use thanks to the higher excess. It works against their interests. Both policy arms of this bill work against the interests of young people.</para>
<para>We know this will take no pressure off the public hospital system. We know that if that money was reinvested into our public health system, we'd get much better bang for our buck. The evidence on that is absolutely clear. If anything, it weakens our public health system. It undermines it. What it says to people is, 'You need private health insurance because our public system will no longer cater for your needs.' We are running down universal health care in this country to satisfy the interests of big corporate lobby groups who are the mates of the coalition government. What it does is legitimises tax minimisation. We're encouraging people to minimise their tax not to improve their health care but to effectively cross-subsidise a product that Australians don't need. Lower premium products simply require a greater share of the cost of the procedure on admission, so you're faced with a bigger up-front cost. You might have a lower premium, but, when you go to have that surgery done, what you're faced with is a much bigger up-front cost. For a lot of people, that cost will be too great, so they won't have that treatment under the private system; they'll simply choose to have it done publicly—again, another huge waste of resources. This does not take pressure off the public health system. Let me say that again. In the words of Jenny Macklin, the former Labor spokesperson on health, this is 'the greatest failure of public policy', and we would have to agree. This is a huge and monumental diversion of public money towards for-profit companies.</para>
<para>One of the other issues with this legislation is the proposed changes to clinical categories. Again, what we're seeing with private health insurance is fewer and fewer people covered for fewer procedures at higher costs. The cost of premiums is going up. The number of things that are covered is going down. No wonder people are deserting their private health insurance coverage. So this is a desperate attempt to try to get people back into private coverage. It is purely ideological; it has nothing to do with the evidence of effectiveness when it comes to the provision of public health care versus that within the private system.</para>
<para>The proposed changes to those clinical categories in recent weeks would restrict a number of things, including access to chronic pain management. In effect, what you're going to see is over 6.5 million consumers, or almost half the people with private health insurance, losing their existing access to private chronic pain management, with the proposal aimed at removing chronic pain as a minimum component across the product class, which has the potential of restricting access for chronic pain patients. Chronic pain is a shocking condition that many people have to endure. It's the most common reason people seek medical help, and one in five Australians are now living with chronic pain, so these changes have the potential to make a huge impact on the care received by many millions of Australians.</para>
<para>As a result of these changes, it is no wonder that Australians are now voting with their wallets. Sixty per cent of those with health insurance say they don't believe it delivers them value for money. No other industry would be sustainable in the face of such poor customer satisfaction. It can be sustained because we punish people who don't have it. We've taken an ideological position that says, 'You must have it. We'll punish you if you don't,' not because it provides benefit to those individuals, not because it provides benefit to the taxpayer, but because we have a government, captured by corporate interests, that is more interested in serving those interests than it is in serving the Australian community.</para>
<para>In the last financial year, Australians paid $4 billion more in private health insurance premiums than they got back in benefits. The industry made a pretax profit of close to $2 billion. That's $2 billion that could be invested in Medicare-funded dental care. The benefit of universal public health care is that it doesn't need to make a profit. As long as it is working efficiently, every cent paid by the taxpayer goes to providing health care for Australians, not to lining the pockets of big multinational corporations with nearly $2 billion in profits subsidised from the taxes paid by ordinary Australians. The government is pushing people to buy a product that they don't want and that it thinks is not worth having, and it is punishing those who don't have it.</para>
<para>Someone's winning out of this deal, but let me tell you it's not Australians. That's why you see the rapid rise of these junk policies that people will never use and that exist simply so people can try to reduce their tax burden. That's why people take them out. People are taking out junk policies because they know that they're better off if they have a policy they won't use. They'll pay less in tax than they pay in dishing out for that policy. That is a waste. That is inefficiency. It is money that should be invested in public health care that, instead, is going to line the pockets of these corporations.</para>
<para>The number of policies containing exclusions has risen fivefold in the last 10 years. Meanwhile, the share of policies without exclusions has fallen by 20 per cent. We're seeing a product deliver less and less value for Australians. Exclusionary products undermine the principle of community rating. Community rating means that people are treated equally and everybody gets access to the same level of health care. That, of course, is at the centre of the private health insurance model. The principle of community rating is that premiums are not to be determined discriminately as a function of your age, your health or your occupation. It's that everybody contributes to the risk pool and those who need treatment are able to access it when they need it. This policy proposal undermines that principle.</para>
<para>With exclusionary products, you also undermine the principle of community rating by working backwards. If you're young and healthy, you're unlikely to need cardiac surgery and you're unlikely to need a hip replacement. You can opt to avoid a product that offers those things. But if you're older or if you're living with other chronic conditions, you might not have the luxury of that choice. You bear the risk that comes with it, so your premiums are higher. That's not how community rating works. Indeed, it undermines the very model of the way we deliver health care in this country.</para>
<para>People are being coerced into buying a product that's worth less and less with every year that passes. Premiums have risen three times faster than inflation since John Howard introduced the private health insurance subsidy in 1999. We need to ask ourselves why. Australians have already shown that their preference is for universal health care. They like Medicare. They like our public hospitals. They value them, and they want us to invest in them. But the more money we push into the private sector, the more pressure we put on Medicare. That's because every cent that's spent that goes to the profits of private corporations and every cent that goes to the administrative overheads or the advertising budgets of the private health insurance industry is a cent that's not invested in Medicare funded dental care, our hospitals or our general practices. Of course, we know it's not an accident. The chief executive of nib made it clear that this is the goal: to bring us back to the days before Gough Whitlam introduced Medicare. This is a problem if you care about funding a quality system that's fair, that's efficient and that delivers good value for money.</para>
<para>All you need to do is have a look at the health care provided in the US to see where a two-tiered, highly privatised model—where there is one level of health care for people who have private health insurance and another level of health care for those people who use the public system—to see what sort of health care that delivers. They spend nearly double what we spend here in Australia as a proportion of their GDP. We spend roughly 10 per cent. They're spending upwards of 17 per cent of their GDP on health care. They get a worse product. The biggest cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States right now is people not being able to pay their medical bills. That is the model that the Liberal coalition government want to take us towards. It's a privatised, two-tiered model where Medicare is seen as some safety net for people who can't afford it and where we drive people to expensive, inefficient private health insurance that drives up the profits of corporations but doesn't deliver for people when they need it.</para>
<para>Giving any player the market power to restrain costs is dangerous when the market player has a profit motive. That's why it's so important that we have Medicare and our public hospital system and that we have universal health care as the centrepiece of health provision in this country. The motive of introducing Medicare was not to drive a profit for a corporation; it was to provide quality health care for all Australians when they need it, regardless of how young or old they are, regardless of where they live, regardless of whether they're a regional Australian or somebody living in a capital city, regardless of whether they're somebody who comes from overseas or whether they're born in Australia and regardless of whether they're Indigenous or non-Indigenous. Health care in Australia, funded through Medicare, is something that is designed to deliver for everyone.</para>
<para>We're chipping away at it every year, at a huge cost to the budget and at a huge cost to the health care of Australians. We don't have to accept it. If we made a decision right now to invest more in our public health system, what we would find is that every Australian, right now, could afford to go to the dentist just in the same way as they go to the doctor. Medicare funded dental care is something that the Greens want to see introduced into Australia. We could do it by scrapping the unfair, inefficient private health insurance rebate, by redirecting that money into our health system and by making sure that every cent that's invested in health care is invested not to drive a profit for a corporation but, indeed, to provide health care for every single person in this country. That's why the private health insurance rebate needs to be redirected into our public health system.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>12:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise today to speak on the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018.</para>
<para>I will just begin by pointing out that those on this side of the chamber believe in a government-funded system. Obviously, Medicare and the public hospital system provide an excellent level of service to all Australians on a universal basis. There is no means testing and there is no restricted access. But we also believe in a strong private health insurance system. This balance is something that has been difficult to achieve in a public policy sense, but it is something that I think has, over a long period of time—and with the occasional and half-hearted support of those directly opposite—served Australia very well.</para>
<para>The balance between a public and a private health system has given people options and choices. It means that in many categories of health care people haven't had to be placed on waiting lists, which in the end are the inevitable result if we go down the way of a purely public model, where the only way of controlling healthcare costs is rationing. We've seen that all around the world.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Rubbish!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Those from the Greens say, 'Rubbish!' to that. I just say to look at the examples around the world. That is the only way of controlling costs in a purely public healthcare system. We believe that people have a right to choose private health and we believe that the government has a role in supporting that choice, hence the current structure that has been put forward.</para>
<para>To the bills: the bills give effect to a number of private health insurance reforms that were announced in October 2017, including a number of significant changes that look to the long-term sustainability and viability of the private health insurance sector and the wellbeing of our entire healthcare sector. They allow insurers to discount hospital insurance premiums for 18- to 29-year-olds by up to 10 per cent. They allow insurers to expand hospital insurance to offer travel and accommodation benefits for people in rural and regional areas who need to travel to treatment.</para>
<para>I will just pause here, momentarily. Coming from a regional area in Western Australia, I know that a lot of people in regional Western Australia particularly—but I suspect this is reflected right across regional Australia—have private health insurance that they can't necessarily use in their own local hospital system because of the nature of the access to choices in smaller country areas. They retain it because they want that choice in case something happens in the future. The ability to include accommodation benefits for those people means they are more likely to be able to access and use their health insurance. I think we've already seen a number of insurers start to talk about how that may be offered as part of private health insurance arrangements.</para>
<para>The bills also boost the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman and increase its resources to ensure that consumer complaints are resolved clearly and quickly. The bills increase the maximum voluntary excess consumers can choose under their health insurance policy for the first time since 2001. Obviously, consumers have a lot of experience dealing with excess, particularly in terms of car insurance and house insurance, so I think that consumers in the marketplace understand those things very well and that increasing this for the first time in 17 years is a sensible policy change.</para>
<para>The bills also replace the standard information statement with a new, more flexible private health information statement. People should be engaged with any financial decision they make, and also any decision they make regarding their insurance. Making information clearer and easier to understand, and making sure consumers are informed about what a product actually is and what it will enable them to claim, are very important. The bills also look to the administration of second-tier default benefit arrangements for hospitals.</para>
<para>As part of the entire package that the government put forward in October last year, we also saw a $1.1 billion saving to private health insurance members through lower medical device costs; better access to mental health services through removing the two-month wait period to upgrade on a once-off basis; the introduction of standard clinical definitions across all policies; and the introduction of an expert committee to deliver options to reduce out-of-pocket costs and to improve models of care for outpatient rehabilitation and psychiatric care. Obviously, the final one is very important; out-of-pocket costs are a huge concern to many consumers. The government is very cognisant of the need to not only allow consumers to understand the nature of the out-of-pocket costs that they are incurring but also give consumers as much choice as possible in reducing those out-of-pocket costs.</para>
<para>The bill also allows insurers to transfer all policyholders, with their consent—I make a very strong note that it is with their consent—from closed products to current products. There are a very large number of products in the marketplace that have a very small number of participants in them. Obviously, that is an inefficiency in the system that would be beneficial to clean up, but, again, it needs to be with the consent of the insured. This measure will assist insurers in the implementation of the new gold, silver, bronze and basic products. Obviously, this categorisation has been met with fairly widespread support. There are those who wish to label the basics as junk policies. Obviously, those on this side disagree with that; they are what they say they are: they are basic policies that offer a low level of cover in a private health insurance sense but they come at a lower cost than other options that are available. As long as people go into these policies with open eyes, we should be accepting of those decisions that people make.</para>
<para>Benefit limitation periods, which restrict access to services such as psychiatric care and gastric banding for up to 36 months, have been a source of confusion for some private health insurance members. The bill improves consumer transparency by removing the use of benefit limitation periods in private health insurance policies including psychiatric care and gastric banding. This bill ensures that the consumers who have purchased benefit limitation periods—inclusive policies—since the Private Health Insurance Act was introduced do not need to repay premium rebates they have received, are not retrospectively liable for the Medicare levy surcharge and are not liable for Lifetime Health Cover loadings. As part of the package of reforms, the government committed to a significant range of changes to the private health insurance system. I think most people would agree, regardless of where they stand on the issue, that it is the most significant reform in this area for a long period of time. It has been widely welcomed, though not universally.</para>
<para>In terms of the amendments that have been put forward by the government—as I say, we are strengthening the viability of the private health insurance system and we are addressing issues of affordability, complexity and the perceived lack of transparency. I think all insurance documents have a level of complexity that probably baffles many of us, so any simplicity and clarity that can be applied in that respect is very important. I was part of the legislation committee report for these bills, and I note that the committee, of course, recommended that the bills be passed.</para>
<para>The committee report refers to comments made about the strengthening of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman's powers. This bill will strengthen the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to protect consumer interests. The Private Health Insurance Ombudsman will be able to conduct inspections or audits at insurers' premises to verify the accuracy of information. Private health insurers have consistently and actively provided access to ombudsman investigating officers to verify the accuracy of information, and this is expected to continue. The ombudsman will provide private health insurers with at least 48 hours notice of access, with the ombudsman delegated functions or powers to be exercised by persons with appropriate expertise. Having a reserve power, even if rarely used, will give consumers confidence in the role of the ombudsman. The powers are analogous to ombudsman's powers in other parts of the jurisdiction of the ombudsman and they are to be used as a reserve power to address consumer complaints where there is a compelling justification to do so. The purpose of entry in these circumstances is not to obtain evidence to support a criminal prosecution. The intention is to confirm information provided by a consumer and to enable the ombudsman to make non-binding recommendations, having received comprehensive information from both parties. The proposed government amendments also postpone the commencement date of the increase in powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman from 1 July 2018 to the day after the act receives royal assent, because these changes are, of course, not intended to be retrospective.</para>
<para>There has been some concern raised—and it was raised in the Senate inquiry—that the entry and inspection powers are too extensive. The ombudsman's powers are recommendatory rather than allowing criminal or civil enforcement action, such as those available to the ombudsmen for other agencies where entry and inspection requires consent or a warrant. A written-notice period of 48 hours is appropriate and proportionate, given the need for the effective and efficient exercise of the ombudsman's powers. Labor senators supported a call in the committee report for a review of the measures after implementation. Reviews of government policy changes are conducted regularly, often by independent experts, without the need for directive legislative provisions. The government is already committed to a review of the clinical categories used for the gold, silver, bronze and basic product tiers, in 2020 and 2020-21, to ensure they are relevant and effective and are achieving the outcomes desired, certainly by those of us on this side of the chamber.</para>
<para>In the committee report Labor senators also called on the government to set a two per cent cap on private health insurance premium increases and to task the Productivity Commission with a review of private health insurance. If a two per cent cap were applied at the insurer level, it would likely result in multiple private health insurers breaching prudential standards. Obviously, that is not something the government would support. Independent modelling shows that, under claims inflation of four per cent, 39 per cent of all insurers would be making negative underwriting margins after one year of the two per cent cap, with 58 per cent of insurers having negative underwriting margins after two years.</para>
<para>A 2017 Senate inquiry into the value and affordability of private health insurance and out-of-pocket costs reported at the end of 2017 and substantial reforms are currently being implemented—the reforms I have just talked about. It is very sensible to bed down those reforms and consider their impact before we embark on another review. During the Senate committee hearing into the legislation, several senators argued that the ability of people with private health insurance to receive the premium rebate and then to elect to be treated as a public patient in a public hospital meant that their treatment was being paid for twice. This is simply not true. Premiums charged by private health insurance companies reflect the benefits they pay for their members. The rebate is then based on the premium charged. If people with insurance are opting to be treated as public patients when they attend a public hospital then this will be reflected in the benefits paid by the insurer, and ultimately in the premiums and the private health insurance rebates paid. The rebates do not include amounts for hospital treatment that has not happened and will not happen.</para>
<para>We also need to be very clear that people have a choice about whether to use the public or the private system. This goes back to where I started. People in Australia do have a choice. They have a strong choice between the private and public hospital systems. The public hospital system has no means testing and no barriers to entry, and that is a very important part of our system, our mixed system, which those on this side of the chamber are very keen to promote.</para>
<para>In terms of where we sit on the overall health system, we on this side want to see a balance between the public and private sectors in the Australian healthcare system, something that has served us well for a number of years, and continues to service us well, and something that the Australian people have voted with their pockets to support.</para>
<para>Although Senator Di Natale particularly wishes to label this as a matter of serving certain corporate masters or the big end of town, the reality is that many of those who have private health insurance who are on low and fixed incomes decide to spend a significant part of their income on the flexibility, choice, security, certainty and peace of mind of having a private health insurance policy that suits them. Obviously, those on lower incomes aren't gaining a huge tax benefit out of their decision to have private health insurance because they simply aren't paying tax or as much tax. So I think it's very important to realise that Australians choose private health insurance for a range of reasons. It's not simply for those set out by Senator Di Natale, There are a range of reasons. People in the bush have a range of reasons why they choose to have private health insurance, even though they may not have access to any facilities in their local area that they can claim.</para>
<para>We saw a fear campaign on Medicare at the last election and we continue to have lies told, particularly about the government's view on Medicare, the public hospital system and the public healthcare system. Medicare funding continues to increase each and every year. Medicare will never be privatised; it will never be sold. It is a core government service. We will continue to deliver every element of Medicare, going forward. It's certainly a very, very important part of our healthcare system. In fact, this government is investing record levels of funding into Medicare—more than $22 billion into Medicare this year, over $1 billion more than last year. This will increase to $26 billion in 2019-20.</para>
<para>Obviously, funding of health care and funding of the private health insurance rebate come on the back of good economic growth and a good economic plan for the future of this country. That underpins everything that this government is trying to do. With a strong economic plan, we can have the positive dividends that deliver a strong economy, a strong level of economic growth and strong employment growth, with over a million people into jobs since this government came into power. Through that, we can also deliver a very strong mixed public and private healthcare system.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 and the related bills. Australians are doing it tough under this government, no matter who it makes Prime Minister. Wages are stagnating, work is becoming more insecure and bills, such as power bills and private health insurance bills, are skyrocketing, partly because this dysfunctional government cannot work together with a coherent policy agenda. One of the worst costs for members of our community is the skyrocketing increase in the cost of private health insurance. For years, private health insurance premiums have been rising at triple the rate of inflation, way above the pace of wages, and families are paying an average of $1,000 more than they were when the Liberals came into power in 2013. According to a recent report by CHOICE, 77 per cent of those with private health insurance are struggling to meet the cost of their policies. That's an extraordinary number of the population. Things are clearly not working.</para>
<para>This country is in the midst of a private health affordability crisis. People are downgrading or even dropping their cover altogether in droves, putting the entire industry at risk of a death spiral. Prices are up and profits are up, but quality and value are way, way down. Meanwhile, we see scandals in the industry and we see insurance company chiefs somehow thinking it is okay to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of their members' money to attend junkets like the one in Portugal. Reports say that there were business-class airfares, opulent hotels, fine dining and even a luxury cruise, and that a number of officials tacked on private European jaunts. How does this help any Australian facing huge out-of-pocket costs for surgery or a hospital stay? And how does it help to bring down the price of premiums?</para>
<para>No wonder Australians are angry. Australians are paying a lot more for their health insurance policies and getting a whole lot less. Ten years ago, only 8.6 per cent of health insurance policies contained exclusions. Now it's 40 per cent—40 per cent of policies now contain exclusions. These exclusions are often hidden in the fine print, meaning that people are paying for insurance without being covered. It's just turning health insurance into a con. We've all heard of people who go to their doctor needing cataracts removed or knee surgery or a hip replacement or a hysterectomy and are told that, even though they are paying some of the highest out-of-pocket costs in the OECD and even though they're paying in excess of $4,000 to their private provider, it just so happens that that particular procedure isn't covered by their insurer.</para>
<para>While there are many small operators and not-for-profits doing good work, the larger players in the industry raked in $1.8 billion in profit before tax last year, and yet Mr Morrison still wants to give a tax cut to these large companies. I think it's pretty informative to have a look at the profits of the health insurers in context. Most publicly listed companies get a return on equity of about eight per cent, and the banks—the ones we've seen ripping off consumers—average well north of 10 per cent. But do you know how much some of the biggest health insurance providers pocket—how much their return is? Over 20 per cent. It's astronomical! And, not only that, it's really concerning, considering what people are getting. People aren't getting bang for their buck.</para>
<para>This is an industry holding about $6 billion over and above the legal capital requirement, as well as receiving $6 billion in taxpayer-funded subsidies each year. Yet, despite having large cash reserves, profits in the billions and government support, the private insurers keep aggressively increasing their premiums each year. This year alone, some families with two kids are facing $200 premium increases. That's a real struggle for families trying to balance a budget. Two hundred dollars can mean a lot to a family living on the line. It might mean that they don't buy as many groceries or that the kids miss out on a school excursion or can't access some sporting activity. I could list any number of things that that $200 could be better spent on. It has got to the point where some insurers are just gouging consumers. And it has got to stop.</para>
<para>Today we're looking at minor changes to private health insurance. In October 2017, the government announced a range of mostly minor changes to private health insurance arrangements, following a reform process that began in late 2015. This package of three bills implements the changes that require legislation. The government's private health insurance package also includes a number of changes that are not reflected in these bills because they don't require legislation.</para>
<para>The principal bill in the package is the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, and that makes eight changes to current arrangements, including four about which we have expressed scepticism or concern. The two minor bills in this package are the A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018. They amend the A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Act 1999 and the Medicare Levy Act 1986 to allow increased maximum excess levels. They also repeal grandfathering provisions that had allowed policies with higher excesses than the current maximums. These policies were grandfathered when the current maximums were introduced in 2000, but they will no longer be compliant for the purposes of the rebate surcharge or lifetime health cover loading.</para>
<para>The opposition welcomes elements of the bill that strengthen the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman. We have also welcomed changes that allow insurers to include travel and accommodation costs under hospital treatment products to help people in rural and remote Australia access care. But, ultimately, we don't believe these bills will deliver significant savings to Australian consumers. And it's not just us saying that; it is groups like the AMA, and some of the health funds themselves have said the same thing. Having said that, we believe Australians need and deserve every bit of price relief they can get. As an alternative, Labor have a real plan to rein in soaring private health insurance costs because Labor understand that we have to put downward pressure on family budgets. We have to make life easier for everyday Australians because they are being ground underfoot under this Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government.</para>
<para>Under the Private Health Insurance Act, the Minister for Health is required to approve the premium increases that take effect each April. Under the act, the minister can reject changes that are deemed not to be in the public interest. Labor will not improve any increases above two per cent in its first two years in government. Labor will manage the implementation of this cap through the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority, particularly with respect to ensuring the viability of not-for-profit insurers. By capping premium increases at two per cent for two years, effectively tying them to general inflation, a Shorten Labor government would deliver real relief to 13 million Australian consumers struggling with the cost of living. This tough policy will put an average of $340 back into the pockets of Australian families and savings of around $150 for young singles and around $290 for young couples. Labor's policy will benefit over 13 million Australians, including 267,000 in my home state of Tasmania. And, might I say, with me I have Senator Polley and Senator Urquhart, who are both great Tasmanian senators as well. It will benefit 267,000 in our home state.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Watt</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, Senator Watt. And that's only fair given wages are so low and private health insurer profits are so high. We are shifting the balance back to ordinary Australians. Large insurers are highly profitable and have the capacity to absorb these savings. For decades, Australians have been getting whacked with price rises double or even triple inflation. So Labor will also task the expert Productivity Commission with the biggest review of the industry in 20 years to improve the quality, value and affordability of private health insurance. The Productivity Commission is the most appropriate organisation to consider questions of competition and provide recommendations to strengthen the sector. Labor will immediately begin consulting with the sector on terms of reference, which will include how to restore the affordability and value of private health insurance for consumers; the underlying cost drivers, including insurer margins; the range of carrots and sticks to encourage insurance coverage; the balance between the private system and Medicare, Australia's universal public health insurance scheme; and issues arising from sector consultation.</para>
<para>There's broad support for this inquiry, including from the Consumers Health Forum, CHOICE, the Australian Healthcare & Hospitals Association, the Public Health Association and the National Rural Health Alliance, who've already called for a Productivity Commission inquiry into private health insurance. The commission's report will provide the basis for ongoing reform under a Shorten Labor government, with long-term reforms to improve the affordability and value of private health insurance to be implemented in Labor's first term. And there is wide support for our policy by consumer groups. The Public Health Association of Australia has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Scare tactics by the Private Health Insurance industry … should not be surprising. However, they should be rejected out-of-hand. The focus of this industry is on profits and return to shareholders rather than the health of all Australians.</para></quote>
<para>The highly respected consumer organisation CHOICE has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">CHOICE welcomes any action to apply more scrutiny to this highly subsidised and highly profitable industry … While costs for private health insurance are increasing, the value that people receive from private health insurance has dropped.</para></quote>
<para>Similarly, the Consumers Health Forum has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A commitment by the Opposition to a wide-ranging Productivity Commission review of the private health system is a welcome step and a level of independent inquiry we have been recommending for some time.</para></quote>
<para>The Australian Nursing & Midwifery Federation is also supportive, saying:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… the ANMF is supporting practical policy reforms which enhance the affordability and value of private health insurance … "fees for private health insurance cover are out of control and now becoming unaffordable for most families."</para></quote>
<para>And, finally, the Australian Healthcare and Hospital Association has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A comprehensive review of private health insurance by the Productivity Commission, as put forward by the Opposition today, is the only sensible way forward out of the mess that private health insurance has become.</para></quote>
<para>So it's pretty clear that Australian families need relief and that the system needs to be tidied up.</para>
<para>All this is clearly unsustainable. We've seen people abandoning their policies in droves because they just can't afford them anymore, and if enough people leave it will put the whole industry at risk. Labor's policy would deliver the smallest price rises in decades. More than that, Labor's policy would deliver much needed certainty so that Australians could plan their household budgets around these more modest increases—no more February surprises when your insurer informs you that your premium will rise by five or six per cent on 1 April.</para>
<para>We believe that private health insurance plays an important role in Australia's world-class health system. We're not looking to dismantle it but this is an industry that gets $6 billion in taxpayer subsidies every year, so Australians are entitled to demand a better deal. In contrast to Labor's bold plan, the package the government announced in October last year was pretty underwhelming. After two years of talking, the best the government could come up with was a range of mostly minor changes. They're really only tinkering around the edges. This isn't surprising, given how closely the government collaborated with the private health insurers on devising this package.</para>
<para>We also have significant concerns about elements of these bills. Firstly, the bills allow insurers to offer maximum excesses of $750 for singles and $1,500 for families. This is up from $500 and $1,000 presently, so the government is trading higher excesses for lower premiums. But we're concerned that consumers will opt for higher excesses that they cannot afford to pay when the care is needed, thus forcing them into the public system and further eroding the value of private health insurance.</para>
<para>The bills also allow insurers to offer age-based discounts to young people, requiring amendments to the Age Discrimination Act. Insurers will be able to discount hospital cover premiums by two per cent for each year a person is aged under 30, up to a maximum of 10 per cent. Labor fears this will not only be an insufficient incentive for individuals to take out private health insurance but will also be expensive for insurers, possibly increasing premiums for others. Under these changes, a young person signing up to an average $1,800 policy will only save around 70c a week, so they won't even get a cup of coffee a month out of it. But the changes also undermine the important principle of community rating, under which policyholders are supposed to pay the same premium for each product, regardless of their age, health status or other characteristics. This hints at an Americanised model that would not be welcome here in Australia.</para>
<para>The bills will allow insurers to terminate products and transfer all people covered by those products to new policies, but the government has released disturbingly little information on how this change is supposed to work. The Senate Community Affairs Legislation Committee undertook an inquiry into these bills, and Labor senators supported the committee's recommendation that the bills be passed. But these bills do little to address the affordability crisis in private health insurance, and we call on the government to adopt Labor's policy of capping premium increases at two per cent for two years and tasking the Productivity Commission with the biggest review of the sector in 20 years. Sadly, the government and insurers are putting profits before patients.</para>
<para>Private health insurance is a very important part of Australia's healthcare system, and it always will be. But under the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison-whoever government, a private health insurance crisis is putting undue pressure on family budgets and on our healthcare system. For private health insurance to deliver value, it needs to be affordable for working Australians. The last Labor government scrutinised every dollar in premiums, with lower average increases than under the Liberals over the last 15 years. The last Labor government also responded to evidence that the private health insurance rebate was growing unsustainably and overwhelmingly benefitting wealthy Australians.</para>
<para>Labor's reforms made the rebate fairer for working Australians and sustainable for taxpayers, while continuing subsidies for singles earning up to $140,000 and families earning up to $280,000. Only Labor is choosing to put Australian families first instead of the interests of the multibillion-dollar private health industry. It's just not good enough from those on the other side.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today we are debating a number of health bills: the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, the A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018. One, which will slightly worsen the budget position, is about proposed changes to private healthcare legislation and the Medicare levy. One is a bill that will add an extra layer of secrecy to the Aged Care Quality Agency and its advisory board by quarantining them both from freedom of information laws. Another imposes a further tax impost on pathology collection businesses. I suppose each of them has a few positives to offset these concerns, but I will not be supporting any of them. That's not just because they are poor policy; I've previously stated that I will not be supporting any legislation introduced by health minister Greg Hunt. Why? Because he does not have Australians' best interests at heart when it comes to a crucial health issue. Each year, tens of thousands of Australians die from smoking related diseases. We all know it's true.</para>
<para>It would be great if people stopped smoking. We've tried a lot of things to promote that. We were the first country in the world to have plain packaging. This must surely be the most evidence-free policy ever invented, and it is yet to stop a single person from smoking. We have tobacco excise, which is so high Australia has the most expensive cigarettes in the world. This probably has stopped some people from smoking. but now we have a multibillion-dollar illegal tobacco market, with organised crime having a field day. We have nicotine gum and patches and the drug Champix. Each works for a time for some people. We have health warnings on the packs with gruesome pictures. Yet the rate of smoking is not falling; it's stuck at around 13 per cent of the population.</para>
<para>That's not the case in other countries. In other countries, the rate of smoking is falling, and it's not as if the rate is falling from a higher level either. Without plain packaging and without the rampant theft of tobacco excise, the rate of smoking in countries most comparable to Australia is much the same but falling. What's the difference? The difference is a much more acceptable nicotine substitute in the form of e-cigarettes, or vaping. We know that an acceptable nicotine alternative makes a big difference because we have the example of Snus. It's a form of tobacco that's placed under the lip, with the nicotine absorbed through the gums. In Sweden, where Snus is widely available, just five per cent of the population smoke.</para>
<para>But we're not talking about Snus; we're talking about vaping—e-cigarettes. Even though Snus is much safer than tobacco as a source of nicotine, e-cigarettes are still safer than Snus. That's not just my view but the view of many with far more expertise than me, including Public Health England, which is not known for its anti-nanny-state views. It says e-cigarettes are 95 per cent safer than smoking tobacco. In England, e-cigarettes have been available for several years, and their use, sale and some advertising are legal. Last September, Scotland's national health agency released a statement saying that e-cigarettes are definitely less harmful than tobacco smoking and that it would be a good thing if smokers switched to vaping. New Zealand's health ministry has endorsed the use of e-cigarettes as a harm reduction aid and a smoking cessation tool. And, of course, our own House of Representatives Standing Committee on Health found no reason to oppose the approval of e-cigarettes. It recommended against doing this, apparently under pressure from the minister, but the chair and most government members dissented.</para>
<para>Having said all of that, nobody claims e-cigarettes are harmless. We are talking about relative harm. It is true that e-cigarettes are still fairly new, so there is not a lot of long-term data on them. Yet nobody can claim they are anywhere near as harmful as smoking tobacco. To continue to ban them is totally unconscionable. We hear quite stupid justifications nonetheless. They say there is a risk that people who have never smoked may take up the habit after using nicotine e-cigarettes. There is no evidence for this. They think that inhaling nicotine through e-cigarettes will encourage children to give smoking a try—utter claptrap. They think that vaping may make the practice of smoking more acceptable again, damaging the campaign to decrease tobacco use in Australians. There is no evidence of this in any other countries. Why would Australians be any different? In any case, tobacco use is not declining in Australia. The bottom line is this: we have a very large population of smokers who can't quit with what we're currently doing. We should give them something that will enable them to quit and that is working in other countries.</para>
<para>What is the real reason we are persevering with this opposition to e-cigarettes? It is because the public servants in the Department of Health have a pathological hatred of the big tobacco companies. They think the big tobacco companies are behind the e-cigarette market. To them, anything that stops what the big tobacco companies want must be good. It's policy by idiocy. It's not just idiocy but ill-informed idiocy. Regrettably, our health minister fails to challenge this idiocy. Instead, he repeats it himself. The e-cigarette market is not dominated by the big companies. It's far more diverse and competitive than the tobacco market, which the public servants are protecting by blocking e-cigarettes. It would hurt the tobacco companies if smokers were to switch to e-cigarettes, but it wouldn't hurt the smokers. Many of them would save their own lives. I won't vote for any bills put forward by this minister so long as he maintains this vendetta against tobacco companies at the expense of the lives of ordinary Australian smokers. Thus, I won't be supporting these bills today.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WATT</name>
    <name.id>245759</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I am going to make a short contribution on the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, the A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 today. Like other Labor senators, I will be supporting these bills, with some reservations. As has been already indicated by Senator Bilyk, we do think this package of measures is a pretty underwhelming response from the government to the very real problems that many Australians are having with the fact that their private health insurance premiums keep increasing well above inflation levels and certainly well above the increases that most Australians are seeing to their wages. This is something a little like the energy crisis, where this government has been in power for five years now and seems utterly incapable of doing anything that is going to put some real handbrakes on the increases that Australians are experiencing to their private health insurance premiums.</para>
<para>Dealing with the bills to begin with, before I outline some other options that the government might wish to undertake on this front, Labor has throughout the process of examining this legislation indicated two concerns in particular. The first is that the bills clarify that insurers will have the power to terminate particular insurance products and transfer policyholders to other, new policies. Of course, that has raised a concern in our minds that, at least in the hands of unscrupulous private health private insurers, there is a risk—given that some Australians might have products that they have signed up to that they have made a judgement they can afford—that those particular policies may be terminated by insurers, and policyholders could be transferred across to other, new policies that may not be as much in their interests, whether it be in terms of the price that they have to pay or the range of coverage that is offered. We have raised that concern. Now that this matter has been explored through a Senate committee, we note the assurances the government has made to parliament that these changes will come with improved protections for policyholders to prevent them being disadvantaged by insurers. We will be paying very close attention to those measures, but we are willing to pass these bills on the basis of the assurances that the government has made.</para>
<para>The second concern that the opposition has had with these bills is that we note that they do allow significantly higher excesses to be charged by insurers to both singles and families. Just as we have a concern around the fact that premiums for private health insurance continue to go up under this government, we are also concerned at any measure which would allow insurers to charge people higher excesses than what they currently pay. This is an issue that has been explored through the Senate inquiry. At this point in time, we are willing to accept the evidence that was provided to that inquiry by the Consumers Health Forum which argues that consumers should be given the option to choose a policy which does involve higher excesses. The concern that we continue to have is that we do seem to be getting into a situation where the government, because it is incapable of doing anything about premium increases, is essentially trading off higher excesses for lower premiums.</para>
<para>This bill will allow policies to go to the market which do allow consumers to choose a higher excess in return for having some level of control about the increases in their premiums. We don't think people should be being forced into that position. We think this government should be able to come up with real policy change that actually does put a handbrake on the increases that most Australians are seeing in their private health insurance premiums. On the basis of the evidence that was received at the Senate inquiry, this is something that we are prepared to support at this point in time; but it is something we will be closely monitoring to ensure that Australians don't end up getting ripped off.</para>
<para>There are other options available to the government to take real action to try to mitigate the increases that many Australians are experiencing in their private health insurance premiums. The most important of those is a policy that our leader, the Leader of the Opposition, announced some time ago but which has yet to be acted upon by this government. We have announced a really bold policy to really tackle head-on this issue of increases in private health insurance premiums. We have announced that, if elected as the government, we will cap private health insurance premium increases at two per cent for two years to bring them much more in line with the inflation rate and much more in line with the wage increases Australians are experiencing under this government. If we get the chance to implement that policy, that will equate to an average of $340 a year in savings for Australians. So Australians, under a Labor policy, will on average save $340 a year in their private health insurance premiums.</para>
<para>Since this government, under Prime Minister Abbott, was elected in 2013—a long time ago, three incarnations ago—private health insurance premiums have increased by around $1,000 on average. While this government continues to take only small steps, as it has done with this legislation, those premiums will continue to rise. We are not prepared see that go on. As the opposition, we are calling on this government to back-in our policy which would see an increase of two per cent over two years and give Australians some real relief on their private health insurance premiums.</para>
<para>What that would mean in my home state of Queensland is that 2.4 million Queenslanders would generate a saving in their private health insurance premiums under a Labor government with that policy. In some of the duty electorates, where I am particularly active, in the electorate of Capricornia in Central Queensland over 86,000 people would benefit from Labor's policy and over 10,000 families would save under Labor's policy to cap private health insurance premiums. In the electorate of Forde, which runs between Logan and the Gold Coast, over 90,000 people would benefit from Labor's policy and over 11,000 families would save money on their private health insurance premiums if Labor's policy were picked up. In fact, across the five federal electorates that cover the Gold Coast, where my electorate office is based, over 430,000 people and over 54,000 families would save money on their private health insurance premiums if this government would adopt Labor's policy and cap private health insurance premium increases at two per cent for two years.</para>
<para>They are real measures that would make a real difference to Australians' cost of living, not the tinkering at the edges that we're seeing in these bills from this government. Having said that, we are willing to accept any measure that the government is prepared to take to try and bring premium increases under control. On that basis, we will support these bills while, at the same time, continuing to call on the government to make real changes and join with Labor in capping price rises for most Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have listened carefully to some of the contributions today. For clarity, the bill doesn't require consumer consent to close a policy. The bill provides for the consumer to be advised clearly about the closure and the proposed change to a new policy, along with the related rules. This will ensure that consumers can choose to accept the default policy nominated by the insurer or choose a new policy themselves. I now take the opportunity to sum up the bills before the Senate—the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018; the A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018; and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018.</para>
<para>Private health insurance is a fundamental element of the Australian health system, and it is supported by this government. More than 50 per cent of Australians have some form of private health insurance. The package of reforms announced by Minister Hunt last October will help strengthen the viability of the private health system by addressing consumer concerns about affordability and the complex nature and lack of transparency of private health insurance. In addition to the investment of over $6 billion per annum for private health insurance rebates, this government continues to take pressure off private health insurance with the introduction of these reforms to deliver the lowest annual premium change in almost two decades.</para>
<para>The Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 will amend the Private Health Insurance Act 2007 and associated legislation to support a number of the reforms announced last year. The Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 will support younger Australians by enabling private health insurers to offer discounts of up to 10 per cent off private health insurance for Australians under 30 years of age until they turn 45. This reform will improve the affordability of private health insurance for young Australians by delivering hundreds of dollars off the cost of private health insurance and providing them with the benefit of their choice of doctor, timing of treatment and shorter waiting times. It will support Australians living in regional and rural Australia by enabling private health insurance to cover travel and accommodation costs as part of a hospital product for people in regional and rural Australia attending health services often a long distance from their home. Patients and carers will see increased value from their product due to this change, with better funded travel and accommodation.</para>
<para>Private health insurance can be complex and confusing. Certainly this is what we've heard from consumers on the online survey, which had over 40,000 respondents. We want to make the information simpler and more transparent for consumers. The first step in this process is the introduction of a new private health insurance statement, which will replace the current standard information statement insurers are required to provide. The private health insurance statement will offer more flexibility for insurers to provide information that is relevant and personalised for their consumers. Consumers will be given the choice of a new lower-premium policy in return for a higher excess. The changes will increase voluntary maximum excess levels for products, providing an exemption from the Medicare levy surcharge. This will improve affordability for consumers and will be the first time maximum excesses have increased since 2001. Reforms will be made to the administration of second-tier default benefits arrangements for hospitals. These changes will reduce the administrative burden on both private hospitals and health insurers.</para>
<para>This bill will facilitate the termination of products and migration of people to new products with additional consumer protections. This change will make it easier for people to compare products and will generate considerable efficiencies in the system. This bill will strengthen the powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to protect consumers' interests. The Private Health Insurance Ombudsman will be able to conduct inspections or audits of insurers' premises to verify accuracy of information. Private health insurers have consistently and actively provided access to the ombudsman's investigating officers to verify the accuracy of information, and this is expected to continue. The ombudsman will provide private health insurers with at least 48 hours knowledge of access to best assist with investigations with these PHIO delegated functions or powers to persons the PHIO considers to have appropriate expertise.</para>
<para>Having a reserve power, even if only rarely used, will give consumers the necessary confidence in the PHIO's role. The powers are analogous to powers of the ombudsman in other parts of his jurisdiction. The purpose of entry in these circumstances is not to obtain evidence to support a criminal or civil prosecution. The intention is to confirm information provided by a consumer and to enable the PHIO to make non-binding recommendations, having received comprehensive information from both parties.</para>
<para>The government recognises that the benefit limitation periods can be an area of confusion for some private health insurance members and has now decided that all benefit limitation periods should be removed to make private health insurance products easier to understand for consumers. Although benefit limitation periods have been applied under the Private Health Insurance Act since 2007, the act prohibits benefit limitation periods longer than specified maximum waiting periods. Consequently, many health insurance policies may have not met the requirements of the act since it was introduced in 2007. Changes to the bill will ensure that people who may have purchased non-compliant private health insurance policies and insurers who may have sold those products over the last decade are essentially placed in the same legal position they would have been in if the products had complied with the act. To this effect, it will appropriately protect consumers of private health insurance and private health insurers.</para>
<para>The two tax bills—A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and the Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) 2018—deal with taxation related aspects of the reform. These changes will ensure that individuals purchasing appropriate complying health insurance products for private hospital cover with increased excess levels will be able to claim the Medicare levy surcharge exemption. While the legislation brings into effect a number of important reforms, details will be provided in the private health insurance rules, and the government has consulted on the details to these rules. The comments made in response to the exposure draft on the rules released on 16 July 2018 are currently being given careful consideration.</para>
<para>I thank senators for their contribution to the debate on the bills and I thank those who are supporting these bills, including particularly those opposite. There was a last contribution to encourage all Australians and particularly apparently those from Capricornia. Who would know why that would be? But perhaps I could just share with that speaker why it is that the Labor Party intends to set a two per cent increase in private health insurance premiums and to task the Productivity Commission. Well, the Productivity Commission—kick it down the road—is okay. But if a two per cent cap were applied at an insurer level, that would likely result in multiple private health insurers breaching prudential standards. Independent modelling shows under claim inflation of four per cent: 39 per cent of all insurers will be making negative underwriting margins after one year of the two per cent cap, with 58 per cent of insurers negatively underwriting margins after two years. So, this is, as the senator indicated, a matter that you're going to continue to have discussions about, and we in the coalition of course always welcome good ideas and discussions. But I just thought I'd provide some clarity around that idea. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Polley be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:54]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>31</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>8</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Georgiou, P</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Cormann, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>13:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move the Greens amendment on sheet 8503:</para>
<quote><para class="block">At the end of the motion, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">", but the Senate calls on the government, as a matter of urgency, to refer to the Productivity Commission the matter of whether the private health insurance rebate promotes the economically efficient operation of the health system."</para></quote>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the second reading amendment moved by Senator Di Natale be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The Senate divided. [13:59]<br />(The President—Senator Ryan)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>32</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Cameron, DN</name>
                  <name>Carr, KJ</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Collins, JMA</name>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Dodson, P</name>
                  <name>Farrell, D</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Keneally, KK</name>
                  <name>Ketter, CR (teller)</name>
                  <name>Kitching, K</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Lines, S</name>
                  <name>Marshall, GM</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Watt, M</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>29</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Canavan, MJ</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Fifield, MP</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>Hume, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>McKenzie, B</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Ryan, SM</name>
                  <name>Scullion, NG</name>
                  <name>Seselja, Z</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>7</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Bilyk, CL</name>
                  <name>Cash, MC</name>
                  <name>Brown, CL</name>
                  <name>Stoker, AJ</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>O'Sullivan, B</name>
                  <name>O'Neill, DM</name>
                  <name>Sinodinos, A</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Anning, F</name>
                  <name>Urquhart, AE</name>
                  <name>Ruston, A</name>
                  <name>Wong, P</name>
                  <name>Cormann, </name>
                </names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question agreed to. <br />Bills read a second time.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>MINISTERIAL ARRANGEMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I advise the Senate that Senator Cash will be absent from question time today, Monday, 10 September until Thursday, 13 September inclusive due to overseas ministerial business. In Senator's Cash's absence, Senator Canavan will represent the Minister for Small and Family Business, Skills and Vocational Education and Senator McKenzie will represent the Attorney-General, the Minister for Home Affairs and the Minister for Immigration, Citizenship and Multicultural Affairs.</para>
</speech>
</debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</title>
        <page.no>38</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Liberal Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>38</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. Why is the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull no longer the Prime Minister of Australia?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Liberal Party party room had a meeting and elected the member for Cook as the leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party and the member for Kooyong as the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gallacher, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Yesterday morning the Treasurer and Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party, the Hon. Josh Frydenberg, refused on four occasions to say why the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull was sacked. Why was the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull sacked?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Under our Westminster system of parliamentary democracy, the Prime Minister is elected by the House of Representatives. And, of course, given the Liberal National Party won the last election, and that we are part of a strong coalition, the leader of the Liberal Party holds the office of Prime Minister, and the leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party is the Hon. Scott Morrison, the member for Cook.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Gallacher, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When asked why Australia needed a new Prime Minister, the Leader of the House said: 'The question you ask is a good one. It is yet to be answered by those people who felt there needed to be a change to the leadership.' As one of those responsible for sacking the former Prime Minister, the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull, will the minister tell Australians why they have a new Prime Minister?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the honourable senator for that question, but I think that everyone who has followed events in Australian politics over the last few weeks would have seen me explain the reasons for my judgements before and after the relevant party room meeting and I have said all that I have to say on that matter.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>39</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:05</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the minister representing the Treasurer, Senator Cormann. Can the minister update the Senate on the performance of Australia's economy under the performance of the coalition government?</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I will again ask for silence during questions so that I may hear them.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>After five years of coalition government, the economy is in much better shape than we found it in. More jobs are being created and the budget is in a stronger position. It should never be forgotten that when the Labor Party government in which Mr Bowen was the Treasurer and Mr Shorten was a senior minister in the education and employment portfolio lost government in September 2013 it left behind a weakening economy, rising unemployment and a rapidly deteriorating budget position.</para>
<para>Today, the economy is growing more strongly. The economic growth outlook is much better. Employment growth is much stronger than what it was. The unemployment rate is well below where it was headed. Indeed, the budget position is in much, much better shape and has a much stronger foundation and trajectory for the future. The national accounts for the June 2018 quarter showed 3.4 per cent growth in through-the-year terms, stronger than any G7 economy and stronger than the OECD. In year-average terms, which is what we publish in the budget, our economy grew by 2.9 per cent, above the forecast of 2.75 per cent published in the 2018-19 budget. Nominal GDP grew by 4.7 per cent on a year-average basis, also above the budget forecast of 4.25 per cent. In the period since we were elected to government in September 2013 more than a million new jobs have been created in the Australian economy. When Tony Abbott went to the 2013 election promising more than a million new jobs in five years, the Labor Party sneered at us and said it couldn't be done. Well, over five years of an Abbott and Turnbull led coalition government, we have delivered. Of course, the Morrison government, in strong coalition with Deputy Prime Minister McCormack, will continue to build on the achievements of the past five years. But of course the Labor Party still— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How is the coalition government ensuring that the economy continues to grow to create more jobs and guarantee essential services?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We will continue to pursue a pro-business, pro-jobs, pro-opportunity agenda where all Australians have the best possible opportunity to get ahead. On this side of the chamber, we understand that to create more jobs we need to provide the environment for business to be more successful into the future. That is why we have worked so hard to generate a more growth-friendly business tax system. That's why we have worked so hard as part of our ambitious free trade agenda to create better opportunities for Australian exporting businesses to sell Australian products and services around the world. That is why we have worked so hard implementing our ambitious productivity-enhancing infrastructure investment program. And that is why in the coming weeks and months we will continue to work hard to bring electricity prices down. Under Labor, electricity prices would go up and up. Under the coalition, electricity prices will continue to go down because that is good for households and businesses around Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Paterson, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What are the risks to ongoing job creation, economic growth and putting the budget on a stronger foundation and trajectory for the future?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:09</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The biggest risk to our economic opportunity into the future would be a return to the discredited policies of the past from the Labor Party, because, of course, Bill Shorten and Chris Bowen were there at the scene of a weakening economy, rising unemployment and a rapidly deteriorating budget position. They were senior ministers in a government that left Australian families worse off on the back of lower growth, weakening growth, rising unemployment and, indeed, a rapidly deteriorating budget position.</para>
<para>Labor haven't learnt any of the lessons. They are going forward again with the same discredited, antibusiness, anti-opportunity higher-taxes agenda which would hurt the economy, hurt families and cost jobs. When they last were in government, they wanted to push up taxes on everything and everyone that moves. They are at it again. More than $200 billion worth of tax increases are already on the table targeting families, targeting business, targeting investment and targeting seniors. Everyone and anyone in Australia— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Liberal Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>40</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Finance and the Public Service, Senator Cormann. On Monday, 20 August, the minister told the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… I support Prime Minister Turnbull 100 per cent.</para></quote>
<para>On Tuesday, 21 August, the minister told the Senate:</para>
<quote><para class="block">I support Prime Minister Turnbull.</para></quote>
<para>On Wednesday, 22 August, the minister said, and I quote, 'I support Malcolm Turnbull as Prime Minister.' But the very same day, the minister offered his resignation and called on Malcolm Turnbull to resign. Minister, what changed?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>All of these statements were, of course, entirely accurate at the time.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I know that the Labor Party thinks that this is all very humorous. I explained my position, my judgements and the reasons for my judgements openly and transparently all the way through. I indeed offered my resignation, which is a matter of public record. Indeed, I did resign, as you might recall. I sat over there on the backbench on the Thursday of the last sitting fortnight because I followed through on my judgements at the time. Since then, a new leader was elected. We have a new Prime Minister. We're getting on with the job. I know that the Labor Party's only interested in politics.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Nine days after declaring he supported Prime Minister Turnbull 100 per cent, the minister said, and I quote, 'I 100 per cent support Scott Morrison and Josh Frydenberg.' Why should Prime Minister Morrison trust the minister's 100 per cent guarantee when, clearly, Malcolm Turnbull couldn't?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:12</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Malcolm Turnbull could, until I advised him openly and very clearly—</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The Labor Party's interested in playing politics. We are actually interested in working for the Australian people. We've got national accounts which show that the economy is stronger and that more jobs are being created. We've got a budget that is clearly in a better position. That is as a result of our work as a coalition government over the last five years. No wonder the Labor Party don't want to talk about policy, the economy or jobs, because, of course, they left behind a disastrous situation, a deteriorating situation. We had to work hard to turn the situation around. We are continuing to work hard for the Australian people to ensure that the economy remains strong, that Australians remain safe and that we can keep Australians together. Labor is all about dividing people. They're all about— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>How can Australians trust the Minister for Finance and the Public Service when the previous Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, couldn't trust him to keep his word from one day to the next?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I stand by the judgements that I made. I stand by the way I've conducted myself. I sought to handle a difficult situation with integrity, with openness and with transparency and as honourably as you possibly can in these sorts of circumstances. The Labor Party can continue to play games with these things. I at all times sought to do the right thing for the right reasons in the right way, but this is ultimately a matter for others to judge.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>41</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Energy, Senator Birmingham. Will the minister advise the Senate as to what the government is doing to reduce power prices for Australian households and businesses and to ensure reliability of supply?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Molan for his question. Senator Molan, like every member of the Liberal and National parties, is firmly committed to ensuring that Australian retirees have the lowest electricity bills possible, that Australian families have the lowest electricity bills possible and that Australian businesses have the lowest electricity bills possible. They are the absolute priorities of the Morrison government—our determination to make sure that we deliver on practical action to lower power prices.</para>
<para>That's why we're driving forward with the ACCC recommendations to stop price gouging by energy companies, to provide customers with a clear price safety net and to back investment in reliable generation that will encourage more competition in the market. The combination of all of these factors will deliver for Australians—for Australian households and for Australian businesses—lower power prices. Indeed, they're building upon a track record of the Liberal and National parties that has already seen reductions in power prices announced in Queensland, in New South Wales and in South Australia from 1 July. They will see the securing of gas for Australians, seeing gas prices down by around 50 per cent. We've managed to rein in the power of energy networks—which, if Labor had done it sooner, could have saved Australian households over $6 billion. And we've seen around 1.8 million Australian households take advantage of the opportunity to get onto a better energy plan for the future, and they've done so because of the drive and the focus that this government has provided to encourage more households to make the switch. Overall, these reforms will make sure that households, businesses, retirees, families, those investing in exports and others will have the lowest energy prices possible, and that will continue to be the relentless focus of this government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister inform the Senate of why a focus on price is so important for Australian households and businesses?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:17</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We understand that households are doing it tough, with a number of cost-of-living pressures for many Australians, particularly those who are on fixed incomes, such as retirees, and those with many other costs, such as many Australian families. We know that they've seen, over the past 10 years, a 56 per cent increase in electricity prices, and that is just unacceptable. That's why we've worked over a continuous period of time to put in place reforms to the retail market, reforms to transmission grids, reforms to the generation systems—all of them focused on ensuring that we drive prices down.</para>
<para>We also know that, for Australian businesses, lower electricity prices are central to competitiveness, and we must make sure that we keep Australian business as competitive as possible in terms of their ability to compete with the rest of the world. That is why we'll continue the work on implementing those ACCC recommendations, which will ensure that we get more investment in reliable energy that encourages more competition, backed by the toughest of penalties for the future. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Molan, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise the Senate of the threats to reducing power prices?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Whilst our government has focused comprehensively on energy market reforms to drive prices down—and we will continue to do so in the future—we know that those opposite sat back when they were last in power and let power prices spiral, let Australian households and businesses wear the pain of higher prices. We also know that, in terms of the choice at the next election, Australians can look at a coalition government that has sought to drive prices down, that has the policies that are driving them down and that has done the hard yards through acting on the ACCC review, which will continue to put downward pressure on prices, versus those opposite, who go to the next election with policies that are likely to see dramatic escalation in power prices that Australians will face. These are policies such as the potential 50 per cent renewable energy target, which will likely increase intermittency and uncertainty in terms of reliability and result in higher prices, compared with a focus on making sure that the market works to the benefit of all households and consumers. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Climate Change</title>
          <page.no>42</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Leader of the Government in the Senate, representing the Prime Minister. There are reports today that the Paris climate agreement is effectively being sabotaged by the Trump and Morrison governments. Indeed, your own Energy Security Board has concluded that without any energy policy, which is your current position, there is no way that Australia can meet our measly emissions targets. If the Energy Security Board is wrong, please tell us how you will meet our Paris climate targets?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I am happy to confirm the government does remain committed to the Paris agreement. We are confident that will meet the commitments that we've made as part of the Paris agreement. Looking at our track record, Australia not only met but exceeded our agreements as part of the Kyoto agreement. We are confident we will meet the commitments under the Paris agreement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, on a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has concluded his answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was on my feet before he sat down. You were looking down at the time, Mr President.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has indicated that he has concluded his answer, so you can move on to a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He was still on his feet, while you were looking down, Mr President, and I was standing up. I would ask you to review that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The minister has concluded his answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He was still on his feet.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>He has now indicated that he has concluded his answer.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Di Natale</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was on my feet before he had indicated that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I am inviting you to ask a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The former Prime Minister's son, Alex Turnbull, said that big coal donors are using political donations to advance their own selfish commercial interests. Isn't it clear you are walking away from any action on climate change because you are beholden to those big corporate interests?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>No, I completely reject every assertion in that question</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Di Natale, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Prime Minister was photographed in the House of Representatives cradling a lump of coal. He was cradling a lump of coal in the parliament of Australia. Greenpeace are never going to let you forget it and neither are we. How can the Australian people have any faith that you are governing for them rather than governing for your big corporate donors?</para>
<para>Government senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order on my right! I have asked repeatedly for order and silence during questions. That applies to both sides of the chamber.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>It wasn't coal; it was Barnaby Joyce!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, take a breath after I call the chamber to order.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:22</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I know somebody who once used to cradle coal-fired power and that was one Dr Bob Brown, who said coal was the best option when he was fighting thermal power in the great state of Tasmania. What I would say is that the Greens are quite on their own in relation to this. When I last looked, coal was our second biggest export earner. It's actually an incredibly important part of our national economic success into the future. When I last looked, a significant proportion of our energy supplies came from coal generated energy. The Energy Security Board projected, in the context of the National Energy Guarantee, that 60 per cent of our energy supplies in the national electricity market by 2030 would come from coal-fired energy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Members of Parliament: Conduct</title>
          <page.no>43</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. Liberal MPs and senators have complained of bullying and intimidation throughout the week of the Liberal leadership chaos. Julia Banks has indicated that she will not recontest the seat of Chisholm, describing the events as 'the last straw'. Senator Reynolds told the Senate she was 'distressed and disturbed' by the behaviour and the Minister for Women has said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is clear to me that people were subject to threats and intimidation and bullying.</para></quote>
<para>What action has the Prime Minister taken to address the complaints?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:24</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Let me firstly make very clear, as the Prime Minister has, that there's absolutely no place for bullying as we engage with each other in this parliamentary democracy. There is a place for us to exchange views and to seek to persuade each other of the merits of our arguments in relation to policy and personnel, but we should always treat each other with courtesy and respect, and I know that that is a view shared by all of my colleagues.</para>
<para>As the Prime Minister has also indicated, there is, through our whips in the House of Representatives and in the Senate, a process available to anyone who is aggrieved about the way colleagues may have engaged with them in recent weeks, and he has strongly encouraged, and I would strongly encourage, any colleague with concerns to avail themselves of that process.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Kitching, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In response to claims of bullying and intimidation, Liberal MP Craig Kelly said parliamentarians had to 'roll with the punches'. Does the Prime Minister regard this as an appropriate response?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I've just indicated, all of us here are part of a parliamentary democracy. Obviously, a core function of the parliamentary democracy is for us to engage in, at times, robust debate across the chamber. I'm quite intrigued that the Labor Party would ask Senator Kitching to ask a question about bullying, given some of the views that have been expressed in the past about the way she has engaged in internal Labor Party democracy in times gone by. Indeed, the CFMEU—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cormann, please resume your seat. Senator Wong, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is about whether or not the Prime Minister thinks a response to bullying that says 'roll with the punches' is appropriate. The question had nothing to do with any of the issues that the minister, in a somewhat desperate attempt to deflect responsibility, is engaging with.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>You've reminded—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take the interjection about settling down, thank you, Senator McDonald. I'm very pleased—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senator Wong, please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Ian Macdonald</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sit her down!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sit her down?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>We shouldn't be taking interjections at any time, least of all during point of orders, nor should they be made, Senator Macdonald.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Bullying is never appropriate in any workplace, and I look forward to Senator Kitching joining us on a unity ticket as we fight bullying on construction sites around Australia where the CFMEU seeks to bully hardworking Australians into submission. The truth is— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para class="italic">Senator Wong interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Senators Wong and Macdonald! We are wasting time.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron, please don't start off again. Senator Kitching, a final supplementary?</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Ian Macdonald interjecting—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron and Senator McDonald, I have called you both to order on numerous occasions. Senator Kitching is on her feet. Please respect your colleagues.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Liberal member for Leichhardt, Warren Entsch, has said in relation to those engaged in bullying and intimidation: 'I'm glad to see Lucy's prepared to stand up and name them, and I hope Julia does the same. I think they should be held accountable. I think it is totally inappropriate.' Does the Prime Minister agree with Mr Entsch?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I've already indicated, bullying is never acceptable. Bullying is not acceptable in this workplace, nor is it acceptable in any other workplace or, indeed, anywhere around Australia. The Prime Minister's statements and my statements in relation to these and others matters are very clear on that point. Senator Gichuhi and the member for Chisholm, Ms Banks, are valued colleagues, and I am sure that they will act according to their judgements.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Infrastructure</title>
          <page.no>44</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:29</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is for the Minister for Trade, Tourism and Investment, the Hon. Simon Birmingham. Minister, your predecessor, the Hon. Steve Ciobo, in his investment statement released in 2018, headed 'Five good years for Australia' and dated 20 August 2018, stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The quantum of new foreign direct investment in 2017 was $105 billion, and over the last five years this figure totalled $645.4 billion, reflecting the confidence that investors continue to have in Australia.</para></quote>
<para>My question is: would the minister advise the quantum of that new foreign investment, which was applied to infrastructure developments in Australia, and detail that infrastructure and the percentage held by Australian entities within those infrastructure investments?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Hanson for her question. Of course, Australia, being an economy that is enjoying its 27th consecutive year of economic growth, in part depends upon investment from around the world to sustain that growth, to ensure that businesses operating here in Australia continue employing more Australians, to generate more opportunities in Australia and to generate, ultimately, even export revenue from Australia.</para>
<para>In terms of the specific question that Senator Hanson has asked, what I can hopefully help the senator with is that my advice is that the stock of foreign direct investment in the electricity, gas and water sector, for example, in 2017 was $22 billion. However, to put that in some perspective for the Senate, that is a sector with a total capital stock as at 30 June 2017 of some $355 billion. So, in terms of foreign direct investment within that category of assets, that accounts for just around six per cent of those assets. Overwhelmingly, those types of asset classes are very clearly held firmly in Australian hands.</para>
<para>But the question referenced the total scale of foreign direct investment in Australia, and it's important to highlight the fact that that investment creates real opportunities. Some of the examples that have been highlighted in investment statements over recent years include the German tech giant Bosch, whose work to develop smart sensors for use in agriculture is creating jobs and opportunities in their Melbourne based engineering facility, and the Italian confectionery giant Ferraro, who is one of Lithgow's largest employers. Local staff are producing a range of products and extending that to planting around one million hazelnut trees to underwrite year-round production of products such as Nutella. And there's Japan's NEC, whose longstanding activity now supports more than 1,800 jobs in Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, the statement also states that sales by state governments to foreign investment are in critical infrastructure assets such as electricity and ports. Can the minister advise how this is in the best interests of Australians—maintaining our security and lower energy costs—and what the federal government's responsibility is in approving such investment under the Foreign Investment Review Board?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:32</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As a big country with a relatively small population, we've long used foreign investment to help build our nation, and that investment brings not just funds towards building our nation but also benefits of, often, new technology, different knowledge and different or better ways of doing things. An example of that is the entry in some parts of Australia of Spanish contractors around tunnel building. That has provided opportunities for lower costs, in terms of state governments pursuing major road infrastructure projects. The result of that can be that projects are delivered—they're delivered faster, and they're delivered more cost effectively for Australians. Taxpayers and households find they get the benefits of those major upgrades at lower costs.</para>
<para>At the same time, the Australian government is committed to ensuring the national security of our critical infrastructure. That's why our government established the Critical Infrastructure Centre—to identify and manage the national security risks associated with any foreign involvement in the telecommunication, electricity, water, ports or gas sectors. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Hanson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, are you aware that currently Australian superannuation funds have invested approximately $539 billion in offshore investments and of that figure $23.6 billion was invested in offshore infrastructure? Would it not be better for those funds to hold critical Australian infrastructure for the benefit and security of all Australians? Australians feel it is fine to have foreign investment into this country, but wouldn't it be nice to see Australian superannuation funds reinvested in our own country rather than overseas?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Once again, it's important to put some context around those figures. Australian superannuation funds, according to APRA, held over $2.7 trillion in assets at 30 June 2018, so the scale of overseas investment is small relative to the total scale of assets held by those Australian funds. I would highlight that they do invest in Australian infrastructure. For instance, Transurban took a major piece of the WestConnex consortium last week, alongside those from Canada and elsewhere, and in recent years AustralianSuper and IFM bought control of Ausgrid.</para>
<para>But when speaking about superannuation investments let's also, importantly, understand that the prime expectation and responsibility of those vested with our superannuation savings is to ensure that they get the best return for those whose Australian savings they are and that the individuals directing those funds must ensure that, as custodians of the savings and earnings of Australians who have worked hard for them, they get the best possible returns on those savings. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Economy</title>
          <page.no>45</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is also to the , Senator Birmingham. How is the Morrison government growing opportunities for farmers and business through trade that benefits all Australians?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As I indicated just before, Australia is in its 27th consecutive year of economic growth. That growth has been underpinned by our capacity as a nation to trade successfully with the world—to sell our goods, to sell our services and to generate investment—and be able to build a stronger, better country as a result. That in large part is due to the work of successive coalition governments. You can track back to the good work of the Howard government in building access to other markets and in growing our export capacity, as has this Liberal-National government over recent years. The result is that we have seen significant growth in terms of our reliance on trade and, with that, job opportunities. Around one in five Australian jobs rely on trade, and trade equates to some 40 per cent of our GDP. The average Australian family's real income is almost $8,500 higher due to Australia's work in better engagement with the world over the last few years.</para>
<para>This has been built upon most recently by the agreement reached between Australia and Indonesia for the Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement. This agreement will allow, by 2020, over 99 per cent of Australian goods exports to Indonesia, by value, to enter that market duty free or under significantly improved preferential arrangements. It will see a guarantee from Indonesia in terms of the automatic issuing of import permits for live cattle, for frozen beef, for sheep meat, for feed grains, for rolled steel coil, for citrus projects, for carrots and for potatoes. The highlights: we will see some 575,000 live cattle duty free in year one; dairy tariffs reduced or removed; 455 semi-loads of oranges will be duty free in the first year, with that growing continuously; and, for example, duty free access sufficient to make five Sydney Harbour bridges each and every year out of Australian steel products. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for that answer. How will the Indonesia-Australia Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement assist Australian businesses?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Many businesses will be great beneficiaries. I know that Senator Brockman will be very pleased to know that Western Australian grain growers will be some of the biggest beneficiaries of this agreement. Despite exporting 25 per cent of our total annual wheat exports to Indonesia, Australia currently doesn't supply any feed wheat to Indonesia. This agreement will allow for up to $150 million of feed grains to be supplied to Indonesia duty free, potentially adding up to 25 per cent to the value of Australia's wheat exports, which significantly stem from Western Australia. Australian Grain Link, which uses natural clean and green farming techniques and is based in the Riverina region of New South Wales, is well placed to build on its existing export markets, as are companies such as Kangaroo Island Pure Grain from my home state of South Australia. Other small and medium sized businesses like Premium Fresh Tasmania are already benefitting from recent FTAs and will have greater access for their horticultural products, particularly vegetables, including carrots. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Brockman, a final supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Can the minister advise the Senate what the reaction has been to this agreement?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There has been widespread welcoming of this agreement from a range of key industry sources. The National Farmers' Federation notes that it locks in important new trade opportunities for our meat, grains, sugar, dairy and horticultural producers. Ai Group calls it a 'ground-breaking agreement to dedicate an entire FTA chapter to non-tariff measures, as well as streamlining the export documentation requirements'. The Australian Services Roundtable called it 'a stand-out success on multiple fronts … not only in tourism and education but also in mining services, health, hospital and aged care services, in architecture and engineering'. The Minerals Council said that it would not only provide new export opportunities for Australia, it will also support economic growth and development in one of Australia's nearest and most important neighbours. The Australian Livestock Export Council called the agreement one of 'common ground and substantive outcomes', of 'great significance' for our organisation and that 'red-meat bodies have long argued for and supported'. They are coupled with positive comments from grain growers, from AUSVEG and a range of Australian producers. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Home Affairs</title>
          <page.no>46</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Minister for Education, Senator Birmingham. Has any company connected to Mr Dutton received funding under the Commonwealth childcare subsidy? If yes, how much?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>It is a well-known fact, and it has long been declared in terms of Mr Dutton's interests, that his wife has business interests in relation to the provision of childcare services. Like any childcare provider, Mr Dutton's wife's business interests are entitled through their customers, through those families who access those services, to the same types of childcare subsidies, rebates and benefits as any other Australian families. Those are payments for those families, and for those families to get the fee relief that every other Australian family is entitled to when their children attend childcare centres.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Reports indicate that Mr Dutton's family trust owns RHT Investments, which operates two childcare centres which together have received $5.6 million since 2010. How can Mr Dutton claim he has received no benefit from the Commonwealth subsidy?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a grubby smear by those opposite. Let us understand that every Australian family is entitled, under the same laws of the land, to receive childcare support. Under the old childcare benefit and the childcare rebate or today under the childcare subsidy implemented by this government.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The point of order is direct relevance. The question is not about what the family receives as a benefit, the question is about what they receive as an operator.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Scullion</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The people want to know the full story, Penno.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Wong</name>
    <name.id>00AOU</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll take that: people do want to know the full story. Reports indicate that $5.6 million has been paid to a company which has been owned by his family trust. This is the opportunity for the minister to respond to that.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Wong, with respect, they are debating points. The minister is being directly relevant to the question, in my view. I call him to continue.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>As I was making very clear, every Australian family is entitled to the same type of support as they always have been. Childcare operators, who go through the usual standard registration processes, can administer those subsidies on behalf of those Australian families. I don't know whether the thrust of Senator Pratt's question is to somehow suggest that Mr Dutton's wife should not be allowed to have business interests in relation to providing quality childcare services to Australian families or that those families somehow ought to be denied the same rights as other families.</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Collins on a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Jacinta Collins</name>
    <name.id>GB6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>On the point of order, Mr President: Senator Pratt made no reference at all to Mr Dutton's wife.</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That is not a point of order, Senator Collins, and you know better. Senator Birmingham.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The fact here is that those families receive benefits, paid for them by the government to the centre, for fee relief like any other family around Australia under the exact same circumstances as any other centre around Australia. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Pratt, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PRATT</name>
    <name.id>I0T</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>When did the minister first become aware that Mr Peter Dutton had pocketed $5.6 million in Commonwealth funding?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BIRMINGHAM</name>
    <name.id>H6X</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>What an outrageous smear from Senator Pratt! Senator Pratt ought to stand up and apologise to this Senate for misleading this Senate. The fact that the families whose children attend childcare centres operated by Mr Dutton's wife are in some way receiving fee relief like any other Australian family should not be used in that type of personal smear from Senator Pratt, and she should be ashamed of herself.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Northern Australia: Water</title>
          <page.no>47</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>for Resources and Northern Australia, Senator Canavan, and I ask the minister if he could advise the Senate on any recent developments regarding northern Australia's water resources and how these can help unlock northern Australia's economic potential. And, further, for the assistance of the Labor Party—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Cameron interjecting—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Cameron!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>members, could he explain to the Senate, for Labor Party members' benefit, where northern Australia is?</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind all senators: I have demanded silence during questions.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Macdonald for his question and recognise his longstanding interest in long-term planning for our north. I might deal with his latter question first. I think if I asked anyone on the other side to put up their hand if they live in northern Australia, you'd have no-one—no-one at all! But, over on this side, we do have Senate representation in the 40 per cent of our landmass that does make up northern Australia.</para>
<para>A few years ago the government outlined a visionary white paper to develop northern Australia and, in that white paper, we committed to look at the water resources of three water catchments across the north: the Mitchell River in the cape, the Darwin catchment in the Northern Territory and the Fitzroy River in Western Australia. The CSIRO has had 100 of our best and brightest scientists working on this for the past 2½ years, and they have reported that there is great potential across those three water catchments, and that potentially nearly 400,000 hectares could be irrigated across these three water catchments. That would mean an additional 15,000 jobs across northern Australia and more than $5 billion in annual economic activity for Australia. This is great news for our country—that we can, if we have the vision, do long-term things for the benefit of our nation. They have used the best science to look at this.</para>
<para>This is 400,000 hectares. To put that into context, we only irrigate just over two million hectares today, right across Australia. So 400,000 extra hectares in the north is an enormous increase in our agricultural potential, just across three water catchments. That is why the AgForce CEO, Michael Guerin, says that an objective analysis like this from our respected national science agency really drives home just how much potential there is for agriculture to grow and create jobs in Far North Queensland. That's a vision that we share. I know that's a vision that Senator Macdonald shares. We need all of this parliament to share a vision and a plan for northern Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister for telling us that very exciting news on the work that CSIRO has done, and I further ask the minister if he could tell the Senate about government initiatives that have already delivered on much-needed water infrastructure.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The CSIRO's work is just one part of our drive to develop the water resources of Australia and particularly of northern Australia. The coalition already has allocated $2.6 billion to invest specifically in water infrastructure. We've made available $580 million from the National Water Infrastructure Development Fund, and there is a $2 billion water infrastructure fund within the Regional Investment Corporation as well. Of those funds, $230 million has already been allocated or has funded projects in northern Australia specifically, including a $176 million commitment to the Rookwood Weir on the Fitzroy River in Central Queensland, which can deliver over 2,000 jobs. That is something we committed to do at the last election, and, finally, we've got the Queensland government—two years or so on from that—committed to that as well. So that will happen. Jobs will be delivered in Central Queensland. That will double agricultural production and will take this nation forward.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Macdonald, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I ask the minister, finally, what are the consequences of failing to take advantage of northern Australia's vast water resources?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:49</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CANAVAN</name>
    <name.id>245212</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We can probably best see what the consequences of not acting are by looking back on what we've done in the past and what that has achieved and delivered for our nation. The last major dam built in northern Australia—I know Senator Macdonald would know it very well—the Burdekin dam, was built under a coalition government in Queensland. There was a federal Labor government at the time. Bob Hawke, the former leader of the Labor Party, on the opening of that dam, said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">For almost a century the dream of a dam upon the Burdekin River has inspired generations of people with the promise of new prosperity for North Queensland. Today we mark the realisation of that dream the completion of the Burdekin Dam and the formal opening of a new era …</para></quote>
<para>That used to be the Labor Party. Last week, when the CSIRO's report came out, do you know what the Labor Party said: 'It was a thought bubble.' In their words, it was a 'thought bubble'. After 2½ years and 100 scientists working on it, the Labor Party dismissed it as a thought bubble. Bob Hawke wouldn't have done that. Welcome to the modern Labor Party.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Whaling</title>
          <page.no>48</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. To pique your interest, Senator Cormann, I know your party is doing everything it can to become One Nation, but I'm about to ask you a question—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, return to the question.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>on an environmental issue that even One Nation purports to care about. Right now, in Brazil, the International Whaling Commission is meeting. This is a critical meeting because Japan has gone beyond its lies that its whaling in the Southern Ocean has been for scientific purposes—fake scientific purposes—to putting forward a motion for the resumption of full commercial whaling. You have sent Senator Anne Ruston, the Assistant Minister for International Development and the Pacific, to represent Australia at this meeting. She is a designated parliamentary secretary and a junior minister. Given this is the biggest development in nearly 30 years of leadership by Australia, why are you sending a junior minister, and what signal does this send Japan about Australia's conviction on this issue?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, let me say that Senator Anne Ruston will do an outstanding job representing Australia at that very important forum. I would also point out to Senator Whish-Wilson, which he should have reflected on before drafting this slur, that the parliament is actually sitting. The House of Representatives, which, of course, is where the Minister for the Environment is a member, is sitting. She is required in question time because she takes her responsibilities to the parliament very seriously indeed.</para>
<para>Australia opposes Japan's push to resume commercial whaling. We support the global moratorium on commercial whaling and we will oppose any efforts to overturn it. We will oppose any proposals to weaken the rules for commercial whaling, voting regimes or catch limits for commercial whaling. Assistant Minister Ruston will deliver an opening statement on behalf of the government at the International Whaling Commission meeting in Brazil this weekend, on 15 and 16 September, outlining our resolute support for the global moratorium and our opposition to any efforts to overturn it. We maintain our strong stance against commercial and so-called scientific whaling. You do not need to kill a whale to study it.</para>
<para>Let me finish where I started. Senator Anne Ruston will do an outstanding job representing Australia at this International Whaling Commission meeting. I think Senator Whish-Wilson should reflect on the statements that are made about the contribution of our outstanding women in this parliament and the way he explained the question.</para>
<para>Opposition senators interjecting—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order! Order on my left! Senator Whish-Wilson, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:53</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is a very important supplementary based on that response. Why hasn't the environment minister gone, Senator Cormann? Why didn't you send a senior minister like the Minister for Foreign Affairs? If the House is sitting, so is the Senate. Why haven't you sent a senior minister to one of the most important meetings on international whaling in decades? Why haven't you sent a senior minister, when you have for every other meeting of the International Whaling Commission? What is different about this week? Is it because of the chaos that you have brought on this country—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Order, Senator Whish-Wilson! Please resume your seat.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>has paralysed you from doing anything on matters that really—</para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson! I remind senators of the standing orders and the material that is supposed to be contained in and prohibited from questions. Senator Cormann.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Thank you, very much, Mr President. Listening to that question and the way it was delivered—if I was Senator Di Natale, I would start to be worried. There's clearly somebody coming for your job, Senator Di Natale. There's clearly somebody coming for your job. Senator Whish-Wilson was so passionate, was clearly so focused on the delivery of his question, that he didn't listen to my answer to the primary question, where I actually pointed out why the Minister for the Environment wasn't attending. It was because the House of Representatives is sitting and the minister has to be available in question time in the House of Representatives. The same applies—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, on a point of order?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Whish-Wilson</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, on relevance, Mr President: I asked specifically—I said that the Senate is sitting and so is the House of Representatives—what was the point that the minister was trying to make—</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, that is not a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Payne was so keen to answer the senators' questions here this week that she thought it was better for a senator who wasn't answering questions in question time to represent the government at this International Whaling Commission— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Whish-Wilson, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Minister, only a few years ago this government said that in this place all options would be on the table to prevent another season of whaling. In 2013 and 2016 you went to those elections with policies that sent a Customs vessel to the Southern Ocean. What have you actually done in the last five years to prevent Japan from going to the Southern Ocean and killing our whales? What have you done to make a difference on this important issue, Senator Cormann?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>We have a very strong track record when it comes to efforts to prevent the resumption of commercial whaling. I think Australia's track record—and that is actually a very strong bipartisan track record—is second to none. I don't think any effort is ever enough to satisfy the Greens. But, whether it is a Labor government or a coalition government, I think we have a very strong and very effective bipartisan commitment in relation to this issue, and no amount of yelling and screaming from the crossbenchers at the back is going to detract from that fact.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Minister for Home Affairs</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister representing the Prime Minister, Senator Cormann. Paragraph 55 of the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook </inline>requires ministers to 'declare any private interests of which they are aware'. It says:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This can include pecuniary interests, held by them or by members of their immediate family, which may give rise to a conflict with their public duties.</para></quote>
<para>And this is my only question: on how many occasions has Minister Dutton declared to cabinet his interest in childcare centres?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall is quite right that it is incumbent on us to make a relevant declaration of private interests, not just in relation to ourselves but also in relation to our close family members. All ministers are expected to comply with that requirement. In terms of the specifics, I'd have to take that on notice.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall, a supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:57</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I again refer to the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook</inline>, which states that, after a minister declares a conflict of interest:</para>
<quote><para class="block">It is then open to the Chair of the meeting to excuse a minister from the discussion or to agree expressly to his or her taking part.</para></quote>
<para>On how many occasions has Minister Dutton absented himself from or been excused from cabinet meetings as a result of his interest in childcare centres?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I've already indicated to the senator that yes, indeed, all ministers are required to provide appropriate declarations of their private interests, including the private interests of any close family members, and all ministers comply with that requirement. In terms of the specifics that Senator Marshall is asking about, I would have to see whether there's anything else by way of additional information.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Reports indicate that after declaring his interest in childcare centres Minister Dutton proceeded to offer comment on the childcare industry from the point of view of operators. This recollection has been endorsed by a second minister. How is it appropriate for Minister Dutton to influence cabinet decisions of direct benefit to himself?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CORMANN</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Firstly, I don't comment on cabinet deliberations and I don't comment on any anonymous reports. What I would say is that all ministers have to comply with the requirements to declare their private interests, consistent with the <inline font-style="italic">Cabinet Handbook</inline>, and I'm very confident that Minister Dutton has done so.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Rural and Regional Health Services</title>
          <page.no>50</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My question is to the Minister for Regional Services, Sport, Local Government and Decentralisation, Senator McKenzie. Will the minister outline to the Senate how the coalition government is supporting the remote health workforce in the regions?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>14:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>People living in rural, regional and remote areas face barriers accessing the same range of health services as those in metropolitan areas. Remote health workforce safety has been a longstanding concern for governments and employers of remote health workers. I was pleased to announce on 22 August that Australia's remote health workforce will receive additional training, support and professional services, with the federal government committing over $13 million to CRANAplus. The funding commitment will enable CRANAplus to continue its crucial work in addressing the barriers to recruiting and retaining health professionals in remote areas. It will ensure that more than 1,500 health professionals in remote Australia are properly supported to meet the unique challenges of health service delivery in isolated communities.</para>
<para>When remote communities do not have local hospitals or doctors, healthcare services are typically provided by the remote area nurses and the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander health workers, supported by visiting medical and allied health professionals. Remote area nurses have to manage any number of risks while providing vital health services in communities which often have none. Weather, travelling large distances and other complexities all come into play. It's a very different model of healthcare delivery and ensures that essential health care is available to the most vulnerable parts of the population in the most isolated areas.</para>
<para>I know that many senators in this chamber will remember the murder of remote area nurse Gayle Woodford in the remote community of Fregon in the APY Lands in South Australia in March 2016. While acknowledging that the responsibility for the safety and security of the remote area health workforce rests with their employers—predominantly state and territory governments—in response to this tragedy, the Commonwealth government provided additional funding to CRANAplus to be used to develop a suite of resources and education programs to help professionals in remote locations and their employers to mitigate the risks.</para>
<para>The coalition government is committed to ensuring Australians have access to high-quality health care. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a supplementary question?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:01</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister. Can the minister outline to the Senate the important work that CRANAplus undertakes with the remote health workforce and the support that it provides in remote and isolated communities?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australian government funding ensures that training, support and professional services are accessible and affordable for the remote workforce to actually attend. For example, during the 12 months from 1 January to 31 December 2017, CRANAplus undertook a range of education support and advocacy activities that included more than 800 telephone calls to the Bush Support Services line, including internet based counselling services; more than 3,000 health practitioners enrolling in e-learning upskilling modules; more than 100 short courses delivered to over 1,500 participants; and more than 41 fee-paying courses delivered to nonmembers.</para>
<para>There is strong stakeholder support for CRANAplus in rural and remote areas. They are a highly regarded remote health organisation with a reputation for delivering quality training courses which respond to the unique needs of isolated communities, and which are relevant and highly effective in upskilling the remote health workforce.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>I0Q</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Williams, a final supplementary question.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the minister and ask, through you, Mr President: can the minister explain to the Senate how these investments will also support Australians accessing health care in the most remote areas of the country?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:03</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McKENZIE</name>
    <name.id>207825</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Australians who live and work in remote areas of the country have less access to the health services which most Australians take for granted. In our most remote and isolated areas of the country, the first professional you're likely to see is a remote area nurse who, in an emergency, will provide treatment or stabilisation before further help can be sought.</para>
<para>As the minister responsible for rural health I'm absolutely committed to increasing access to health services for all Australians, no matter the location. And through the funding commitment of the coalition government, CRANAplus will be able to continue to support health professionals, such as our remote area nurses, to ensure they're available where and when people in remote parts of the country need them most.</para>
<para>We need to have an innovative approach to health delivery in the most isolated parts of the country, and the transformational Stronger Rural Health Strategy, the most significant health workforce reform in three decades, will also support the delivery of a more multidisciplinary, team based model of primary health care across rural and regional Australia.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cormann</name>
    <name.id>HDA</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr President, I ask that further questions be placed on the <inline font-style="italic">Notice Paper</inline>.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</title>
        <page.no>51</page.no>
        <type>QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Liberal Party Leadership</title>
          <page.no>51</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MARSHALL</name>
    <name.id>00AOP</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance and the Public Service (Senator Cormann) to a question without notice asked by Senator Gallacher today relating to the Morrison Government.</para></quote>
<para>I was wondering over the last day or so what could have possibly been my most favourite farcical moment, in the last sitting week, of the leadership debacle. I was wondering whether it was on the Tuesday morning, when former Prime Minister Turnbull invited the party room to the normal meeting and declared all positions vacant—not to give anyone an opportunity to contest that but to simply throw that open and ambush people, to find that he still had 35 people, from a standing start, who did not support his leadership. Or was it after that, after he actually won that vote on the Tuesday morning? Was my favourite farcical moment the offers of 100 per cent support by all the senior ministers both in this place and in the House of Representatives? Or was it the flipping of those ministers during the course of the next 24 hours, when those ministers that had just given their 100 per cent support then flipped their position and decided to support Peter Dutton? Or was my favourite farcical moment when Malcolm Turnbull actually set a rather high bar by saying that until he could see an absolute majority of Liberal Party members on paper—that being 43 names—he would not call another party room meeting?</para>
<para>I had to land here: my favourite farcical moment was when Warren Entsch, who wanted to support Malcolm Turnbull, gave the 43rd signature on the petition to get Malcolm Turnbull to call another party room meeting—even though he wanted to support Malcolm Turnbull. That had to be, for me, the most farcical moment of the whole lot. But he didn't give that 43rd vote because he wanted to support Peter Dutton. He didn't give that 43rd vote because he wanted to support Scott Morrison. He gave that 43rd vote because he remembered the treachery that Malcolm Turnbull himself had applied in the past, to Brendan Nelson.</para>
<para>All their problems do go back to this. It started right at the very beginning of this terrible, dysfunctional Liberal government, which we've now had for five-odd years. We remember that Howard lost his seat and resigned, and left them absolutely leaderless and rudderless even though everyone, including everyone on this side of the chamber, thought that Peter Costello, who had long sought the leadership mantle, would simply step into it. But, being the man that Peter Costello was, he decided, 'Nah, not going to be Prime Minister any time soon. I won't even put my hand up,' which allowed a battle between Brendan Nelson and Malcolm Turnbull. Brendan Nelson won that battle by 45 votes to Malcolm Turnbull's 42 votes, and Costello didn't even enter the ballot. That was in November 2007. In September 2008, challenger Turnbull defeated opposition leader Brendan Nelson by 41—the beginning of the treachery there. And, again, Costello, who was still in parliament at that time, didn't even enter the ballot.</para>
<para>Then we move to December 2009 and we have, again, another leadership ballot. Tony Abbott enters the race, Turnbull enters the race and Joe Hockey enters the race. I remember those days being just as farcical as the last sitting week around here. In the first round, Abbott got 35, Turnbull got 26 and Hockey got 23. In the second round, Abbott defeated opposition leader Turnbull by 42 to 41—one vote!</para>
<para>In February 2015 Prime Minister Abbott defeated the challenger, which was actually an empty chair, by 61 votes to 39. The empty chair did better than Peter Dutton did in his last round! We fast-forward to September 2015, and Malcolm Turnbull challenges Prime Minister Abbott and defeats him 54 votes to 44 votes.</para>
<para>Last Tuesday, in the last sitting week, Prime Minister Turnbull, with 48 votes, defeated challenger Dutton— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Marshall, I remind you to refer to those in the other chamber by their correct titles.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There were a lot of mentions of 'farcical' in that last contribution, by my good colleague Senator Marshall, but the most farcical thing I've heard for a long time is that speech! I can't quite work out what it was all about. It seemed that Senator Marshall was trying to show his prowess with the numbers from various challenges or contests within the Liberal Party over the last decade or so. Unfortunately, Senator Marshall wasn't quite as good in his recollection of the numbers from all the Labor Party challenges that I've seen in the time I've been here. I can remember, back in the time when Mr Hawke was the Prime Minister, how Mr Keating challenged him. Unfortunately, I don't have Senator Marshall's expertise in getting the numbers one way or the other.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Williams</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Remember Bill Hayden.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Well, I remember Bill Hayden too. But then Mr Keating challenged, and that wasn't successful, and then we struggled on, with the Labor Party slitting each other's throats. The animosity was so bad in those days. We eventually had Mr Keating challenging again and this time succeeding. And then of course there was all the backstabbing and bitterness that followed that. Fast-forward through to the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd times. The animosity, the hatreds, the anger that you saw within the Labor Party at that time was palpable. And we know Mr Albanese is just waiting for the opportunity to get to Mr Shorten, and I see Mr Shorten again is running second in the contest of best Prime Minister—and there are only two contestants—against Mr Morrison, who has been there a mere two weeks. Yet Mr Morrison still leads Mr Shorten substantially, after just two weeks, on who Australians think would be the better Prime Minister.</para>
<para>I think those in the Labor Party who have some ambitions for the future might start sharpening the knives for Mr Shorten. That's because I know how Senator Keneally is doing that, in her obvious desire to become the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. That's a contest that we'll look at with some interest as the next few months evolve. So, whilst I would really love to debate Senator Marshall on Senator Gallacher's question, I just can't see any relevance in the litany of figures that Senator Marshall produced—which are apparently, according to him, figures that happened within the Liberal Party.</para>
<para>What the people of Australia are concerned about, what I'm concerned about and what all of us on this side are concerned about is getting good government for the Australian people—implementing good policies that make Australia go forward. And we can see that happening, since the Labor Party was defeated back in 2013. We've created over a million jobs for our fellow Australians. We've actually started to pay off the billions of dollars of debt that the Labor Party ran up. And I repeat, time and time again, that when the Howard government left there was $60 billion in credit in the nation's piggy bank. But with a few short years of Labor we had debts that, if they had not been arrested, would have been approaching $700 billion to $800 billion by today.</para>
<para>The coalition government, with Mr Morrison as Treasurer, I might say, has turned that around, and now we have a situation in which there is a real projection towards a surplus the year after next. The deficits that Labor left us with have come down each year, and we're looking forward to the surplus that Mr Wayne Swan, the Labor Treasurer, promised every year, and every year it went up. But we have started the trajectory downwards on Labor's debt, and the year after next we'll move into the surplus category. That's what we're interested in, that's what Mr Morrison's interested in and that's what Australians elect us to do. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GALLACHER</name>
    <name.id>204953</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I also wish to take note of the answer given by Senator Cormann to my question on why Malcolm Turnbull is no longer the Prime Minister of Australia. I think the answer is relatively clear and relatively succinct. The answer seems to revolve around the contribution of Senator Cormann and a group of like-minded people. Some of the media commentariat have managed to provide some fairly succinct paragraphs in their journals. First, there was Adelaide's <inline font-style="italic">The Advertiser</inline>, on 30 August 2018: 'Finance Minister Mathias Cormann managed to pledge loyalty to three prime ministers or would-be prime ministers in the space of three days. This has to be some sort of a record. It might also indicate that loyalty is not high on his list of priorities. Senator Cormann, when confronted by the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull and told that his switch this week was akin to giving in to terrorists, said he knew, adding that he had no choice. He did, but he made the wrong one, given the combination of damage to his reputation and the loss of respect of friends inside and outside of parliament.' Another reputable journalist, David Speers, said: 'One cabinet minister reckons either Dutton or Mathias Cormann lied to him about the numbers and led them off a cliff.'</para>
<para>When I move around South Australia, people ask, 'What happened to the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull? What happened to Prime Minister Turnbull? Who's this new bloke? Why has he gone?' Well, the answer lies fairly and squarely over there, with the Hon. Mathias Cormann, who decided at a very late point to change his allegiance from the Hon. Malcolm Turnbull to the Hon. Peter Dutton. He did the right thing, as he said—the Westminster system: go down the courtyard, look down the camera, resign, and off you go.</para>
<para>But it appears as if they couldn't count! The unfortunate predicament he was in then was that he was on the backbench for a day and then he had to declare allegiance to a new Prime Minister. I think he was on the backbench for probably two hours or maybe four hours and then he was back in charge. It really goes to the heart of the issue here. I know that the government is making a great story about its contribution to economics, its contribution to job growth and the like, but it doesn't have a great record on contributions to middle Australia out there. The growth rate for wages is extremely low in historic terms. Middle Australia is missing out in a whole, powerful way. It couldn't be clearer that wage stagnation is really hurting middle Australia. They can bang on all they like, but the simple fact is that company profits are growing more than five times faster than wages. So, the trickle-down economics that's so often espoused in here is not getting through.</para>
<para>We're seeing that in the Newspolls, 40 of which we've now seen—40 negative Newspolls—and if they keep going I think it's possible they could get to a 60-40 vote. If they can get to 56-44 I think you can go worse. I think they can actually get worse than where they are. Look at what happened in Wagga on the weekend, where there was a 29 per cent swing in a seat they've held for 60 years! These are pretty gloomy times for those over there.</para>
<para>There was the shambolic episode of the Prime Minister not telling even his closest leadership team that he was going to have a spill in caucus. No-one in his leadership team knew he was going to have a spill, and then to get gazumped by his own party, and to torture his own party by demanding 43 signatures on a petition, and to keep it going, live by the minute, every single day. The most uninterested elector in Australia knows what happened last week. They can probably point out a few of the main actors in there, and Senator Cormann was right in the middle of all that. If it's true, as the commentators say, that he's cast aspersions on his own loyalty instincts, I can just say this: when there were leadership challenges in the Labor Party I saw people who got up, resigned and walked away. They didn't join the next team, they didn't join the next leader; they got up, took a principled position and stepped back. That's probably what the Westminster system envisages, not resigning for four hours and coming back in the same job a day later. Anyway, that's for the people on that side to worry about. All we know is that middle Australia has looked at this as disgraceful.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll be frank about this: it's been a divisive time for the coalition government. As a Nationals senator, I watched on and saw my Liberal colleagues shed some blood. But, you see, your memory has failed. Do you remember the Rudd government followed by the Gillard government? Senators in the Labor Party were saying to me, 'We've got to get rid of that Julia Gillard, Wacka.' 'She's got to go,' they were saying to me. 'She's going to take us over the cliff.' And then they brought Mr Kevin Rudd back. Let me tell you this: time heals all wounds. That's a fact. We know the tailwind's behind the opposition now and they're getting pretty cocky about everything, but I'll give them a little reminder. Remember a few weeks ago when Mr Shorten went to wind back the tax cuts for business? Didn't he cop a flogging from the business sector, the biggest employer of our country? But they don't care about employing people. It was a pretty rough week for Mr Shorten. Of course, Mr Albanese was getting pretty determined and confident.</para>
<para>I predict that we'll have a May election next year. According to the Constitution, we have to have a Senate election by 18 May. When we go to that election, we will see the stability coming under Prime Minister Scott Morrison. We can see the polls. Yes, they're bad—I'll be frank; I'm not going to sit here and dream something up—but that's to be expected after a divisive couple of weeks. But you watch them improve. They'll improve when people start looking at the tax hikes by the Labor Party and what they're going to do to negative gearing. We've seen what they did when they were in government under finance minister Senator Penny Wong. On 1 January 2013, they brought in a tax law where if you earned more than a quarter of a million dollars and invested in a business it was no longer tax deductible. You borrowed money to go into business—no, they didn't want you to invest in businesses, but you could invest in housing. Now, of course, they'll do away with negative gearing on second-hand houses. Well, the mum and dad workers out there that have worked hard, reared their kids, educated their kids, nearly paid for their house and want another investment, a second-hand house, to give them some income in retirement won't be able to negative gear that. That's what will happen under Labor. Of course, if they do happen to buy something and sell it with a capital gain, a huge increase in capital gains tax will be coming.</para>
<para>Of course, the cost of electricity is the big issue. It's amazing: when Hazelwood, the coal-fired power plant in Victoria, shut down, electricity prices rose by 170 per cent in Victoria, 86 per cent in South Australia and 102 per cent in New South Wales. They want to cut down more reliable generation of electricity, reduce supply and increase demand. It will take us down the road of South Australia, the state where I grew up, where I was a fifth-generation farmer. See what happened down there with a 50 per cent renewable energy target—the cost of that. They want to go back to 45 per cent emissions reductions on 2005 levels. Even Dr Finkel has told us in Senate estimates—he told you, Senator Macdonald—that we can reduce all of our emissions in Australia but the effect on the planet will be virtually zero; miniscule. That's taking us down a costly road.</para>
<para>When it comes election time, the people of Australia are going to be well aware of the Labor Party's policies: their plan for a $200 billion hike in taxes; to tax the family workers, those having a go, who want to buy something and make a bit of gain on it by improving it or whatever; and to stick with their taxation system that does not encourage people to invest in business. The fact is that the private sector derives our nation's wealth. The business sector is where our nation's wealth comes from. They do the employing and they pay the taxes that keep places like this going—the public servants, the politicians and everyone else in the public sector. The more you stifle and pull back on the private sector, the more cost to our nation's wealth creation. We've seen that over many, many years. Of course, we have to talk about debt. At least we've got a government, under Finance Minister Cormann and Treasurer Scott Morrison, with the budget heading back to black print. In all of my life, the Labor Party's never understood what black print is at the bottom of a budget, whether it be the states of Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania—back in the early nineties—or sending New South Wales broke. It's always the coalition that's got to clean up the financial mess. That'll be the case now when we get it right, and people will be well aware of that come the next election, I can guarantee you, Madam Deputy President.</para>
<para>So that is the tailwind behind them. The wind is going to turn around, don't you worry about that— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline>.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:25</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KITCHING</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>In taking note of answers given by Senator Cormann today, what he would not acknowledge is that this is a government of the living dead: it is a zombie government. Imagine being in the Liberal party room tomorrow as people look around suspiciously at each other, thinking of the scores they have to settle and the policy documents they have to leak. In fact, just as an aside, I understand that there are so many leaks that media organisations have had to timetable the release of some of them so the papers aren't too bulked up with them! But what we do know about the rabble passing itself off as a government is that they cannot be trusted, even by each other—and certainly not by the Australian people.</para>
<para>But let's examine the Leader of the Government in the Senate. He has always presented well. I don't want to give too many compliments, but he has always been effective in estimates, with an excellent—perhaps natural—stonewalling capacity. But when he retires at some point in the next year, he will be remembered for two things. Firstly, he's doubled the nation's federal debt on his watch as finance minister. And, secondly, he asserted that the former member for Wentworth needed to be axed because he no longer had the numbers.</para>
<para>This is the debt-doubling finance minister who cannot add up. This is the debt-doubling, credit-rating-risking finance minister who needs a new calculator. Perhaps it will have to be a solar-powered one, if that's allowed in the dinosaur Luddite faction of the Western Australian Liberal Right. I hear that in the leadership spill, it was decided that even a spreadsheet was superfluous to keep track of the numbers.</para>
<para>Senator Cormann, though, is an expert in deficits. His candidate for leadership suffered from one. The Leader of the Government in the Senate talked a good game while it lasted, but his career has gone up in a puff of the cigar smoke of which he is so fond. It is, indeed, reminiscent of the cigar smoke of self-congratulation after his first promise-shattering budget. The people of Australia will keep on asking, 'Why?' The only answer we have is from Senator Cormann, and that is that Mr Turnbull did not have the numbers. But given the assertions from several Liberal members of parliament that they only supported the spill to make the Lib spill crisis go away, and even wrote that on the petition, it's clear that the former Prime Minister probably did have the numbers—and certainly did if we add in the ministerial three: Senators Cormann, Cash and Fifield. Mr Turnbull would have survived if they had held true to the word that they had given, especially in Senator Cormann's case in saying that he did support the Prime Minister—support he gave only hours before and day after day, before saying that he did not support the Prime Minister on that fateful day.</para>
<para>There are many things to ask about this government, like, 'What's the go?' but this is the most serious. If Senator Cormann were your local GP, Madam Deputy President, you'd be a little worried. If you went to visit him for a consult about a head cold, he'd take a look at you, shake his head with concern, pronounce you terminal and shoot you in the head before things got worse. The fact is that the former Prime Minister made a fatal error in trusting Senator Cormann. It was a politically fatal mistake, and I think the current Prime Minister, Prime Minister Morrison, should take note of the fact that Senator Cormann is not wearing his Australian flag lapel badge today—proof of potential treachery ahead!</para>
<para>If Senator Cormann had answered the question honestly today, he would have said, 'The reason that Prime Minister Turnbull is no longer the Prime Minister is because I, Senator Cormann—along with Senator Fifield and Senator Cash—sold him out at the last minute.' That was what happened on that fateful Friday. Senator Cormann—the loyal, the honourable Senator Cormann—having made a great show of loyalty to Mr Turnbull, when it came to the crunch, ratted on his leader.</para>
<para>When the votes were cast in the Liberal party room, it became obvious to everyone that if Senator Cormann, with Senator Fifield and Senator Cash, had remained loyal to Mr Turnbull, the spill motion would not have passed and Mr Turnbull would still be Prime Minister today. Apparently, the former Prime Minister's face was a picture of anguish. This is the truth that Senator Cormann was not willing to tell the Senate today.</para>
<para>There is of course a deeper answer to that question, one which Senator Cormann is also not willing or able to give. Instead, we had to get the true answer from Mr Turnbull himself. The answer is that the Liberal Party is riven with division, and riven about energy policy and how to treat colleagues. They are riven on all sorts of matters. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Whaling</title>
          <page.no>55</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate take note of the answer given by the Minister for Finance and the Public Service (Senator Cormann) to a question without notice asked by Senator Whish-Wilson today relating to whaling operations in the Southern Ocean.</para></quote>
<para>In the last 10 years, the Japanese government has pursued illegal whaling in the Southern Ocean through this fig leaf, this fake, 'scientific' whaling. How is it that we've gone in just four years from an International Court of Justice ruling finding Japan's activities in the Southern Ocean illegal, to a point where Japan is now so bold that right now, across the ocean, in Brazil, at the International Whaling Commission meeting, they've brought not one representative from their government, as we have—we've sent a junior minister to an International Whaling Commission meeting!—but nine members of the Japanese parliament? I've just spoken to someone who is at the meeting. In their entourage, they've brought their own media and they are live-streaming to a Japanese audience the deliberations of the International Whaling Commission meeting. The reason they are doing this is that they have now decided to abandon their 'scientific' whaling, their lie and their excuse for killing whales in the Southern Ocean, and are so bold that they are now proposing to the International Whaling Commission, to the international community, a full resumption of commercial whaling, overturning the moratorium on, the ban on, killing these most magnificent, beautiful creatures of the ocean.</para>
<para>I recently met with a Japanese delegation. In fact, I hosted their lunch in Parliament House just weeks ago. And I flew to Japan last year. I'm the only Australian politician who has flown to Japan and campaigned—who has gone to their parliament, met their parliamentarians, spoken at their press club and told them why Australians don't support their whaling activities in the Southern Ocean, why we want to maintain the ban on commercial whaling and why their 'scientific' whaling was a lie. I've gone to their parliament and I've spoken to them. I've gone to their press club and I've spoken to them. It shocks me how we could get to this point where our closest friend in the region, supposedly, is so obviously thumbing its nose at Australia and the international community by aggressively pushing for the resumption of commercial whaling in the Southern Ocean.</para>
<para>Let me tell you why I think this has happened. This has happened because this government has done nothing on this issue in the five years that it has been at the helm. The previous International Court of Justice court case was brought on by the previous Labor government. At least the Labor government sent senior ministers to IWC meetings. At least the previous environment minister, Mr Peter Garrett, and even Mr Kevin Rudd himself, when Prime Minister, were directly involved in the proceedings of that court case. Mr Greg Hunt from the other place attended a very important IWC meeting in Europe a couple of years ago. But what did we get this week? We got a junior minister, in a new portfolio, who has had nothing to do with whaling, sent to Brazil. That's the signal, the message, that this government wants to send, after 30 years of global leadership on this issue: 'We don't care about this anymore. Do whatever you want.'</para>
<para>The lies that this government told! They said, as an election policy, that they would send a Customs vessel to the Southern Ocean to monitor the Japanese whaling fleet. It never happened. No matter how many times we reminded them, every time the harpoon boats went down there, they never, never lived up to their election promise. They have done nothing. But what they have done with Japan in the last five years is signed a bilateral free-trade deal and worked with them closely on a multilateral deal, the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. Former Prime Minister Turnbull visited Japan last year, and, within a day of his visit, within 24 hours, the Japanese government announced a new, major financial expansion of their whaling fleet, including buying a new mothership. That's the respect the Japanese government have for Australia's position on whaling. They waited for the Prime Minister to meet with them, and then, 24 hours later, they announced it. I know they were planning that a month before because they had been to stakeholders asking for comment. They waited for the Prime Minister to leave.</para>
<para>This government must send a foreign minister or an environment minister to Brazil now. We have to send the strongest possible message that we oppose illegal whaling— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>56</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Presentation</title>
          <page.no>56</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BUSINESS</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>BUSINESS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:35</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BUSHBY</name>
    <name.id>HLL</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to the following senators on account of parliamentary business:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) Senator Cash, from 10 September to 13 September 2018;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) Senator O’Sullivan, from 10 September to 20 September 2018;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) Senator Stoker, for 10 September and 11 September 2018; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(d) Senator Ruston, for 10 September and 12 September 2018.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Leave of Absence</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:36</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That leave of absence be granted to Senator O'Neill from today, 10 September, to Wednesday, 12 September, on account of parliamentary business.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>NOTICES</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>NOTICES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Postponement</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Reporting Date</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I remind senators that the question may be put on any proposal at the request of any senator, and I shall now proceed to the discovery of formal business.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>60</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Slavery</title>
          <page.no>60</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator URQUHART</name>
    <name.id>231199</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>At the request of Senator Moore, I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that 23 August 2018 was the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation's International Day for the Remembrance of the Slave Trade and its Abolition – the day intends to inscribe the tragedy of the slave trade in the memory of all,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that, on 23 August 1791, a group of enslaved men and women in the western part of Santo Domingo, which is now Haiti, began an uprising – this uprising conveyed a universal demand for human freedom and played a critical role in the abolition of the transatlantic slave trade,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/237 proclaiming the International Decade for People of African Descent, spanning from 2015 to 2024 – this resolution is aiming to eradicate racial discrimination,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) Australia's commitment to the Sustainable Development Goals, in particular SDG10, which calls for reduced inequalities within and among countries, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) that the Australian Parliament is currently considering an act to address modern slavery; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) acknowledges:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) the opportunity to remember the causes, methods and consequences of the transatlantic slave trade, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) the importance of preventing racism, injustice and discrimination in all its forms to ensure that all persons are availed equal rights.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>61</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Social Services Legislation Amendment (Ending the Poverty Trap) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>61</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1144" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Social Services Legislation Amendment (Ending the Poverty Trap) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the law relating to social services, and for related purposes—Social Services Legislation Amendment (Ending the Poverty Trap) Bill 2018.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill may proceed without formalities and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a first time.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>61</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table an explanatory memorandum relating to the bill and move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speech incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speech read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will provide additional financial assistance to single recipients of the maximum basic rate of Newstart Allowance, Austudy, Sickness Allowance, Special Benefit, Widow Allowance and Crisis Payment in the amount of $75 a week. The Bill will provide additional financial assistance to single recipients of the maximum basic, "away from home" rates of Youth Allowance in the amount of $75 a week.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Newstart Allowance, Sickness Allowance and Widow Allowance are paid at the same rates but with different eligibility requirements. The rates of Special Benefit and Crisis Payment are calculated with reference to the rates of Newstart, Austudy or Youth Allowance payments. As the Bill raises the rates of these three payments, the increase will be reflected in the maximum rates for Crisis Payment and Special Benefit.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill ensures the additional financial assistance will be paid to people who receive the Jobseeker Payment once the relevant <inline font-style="italic">Social Services Legislation (Welfare Reform) Act 2018</inline> provisions commence.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The increase to these payments is to assist in alleviating poverty, reducing income inequality and, where appropriate, to help people to more effectively access study and employment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The intention is for ABSTUDY to be increased in the amount of $75 a week. However, this payment is based in policy, rather than legislation. For the intention to be realised, the Government would need to increase this payment.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill will also change the indexation arrangements for these payments and other income support payments so they align with the indexation arrangements of the pension to being the higher of CPI (Consumer Price Index) or pensioner and beneficiary living cost index amount (PBLCI).</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In a wealthy country like Australia, no one should be left behind. All of us should be free to live a good life with access to socials services – regardless of our postcode, parents or bank balance.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A socially just, democratic and sustainable society rests on the provision of a guaranteed adequate income for all people to allow them to fully participate in society. Without an adequate income or sufficient wealth, people are left behind.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The income support payments this Bill seeks to increase are inadequate and recipients of these payments often face difficulties in being able to fully participate in society and cover basic living costs, including necessities such as housing, food, transport, healthcare and utilities, and are often excluded from social activities due to their prohibitive costs. People on income support are skipping meals, going without medication and avoiding using their heater because they cannot pay their bills or their rent.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">When the ability of individuals to reach a socially acceptable living standard and to participate in society is hindered, our society suffers and division is felt. Inequality creates significant negative effects on individuals' physical and mental wellbeing, societal cohesion and stability, and economic growth and productivity.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">ACOSS and the University of New South Wales recently released their <inline font-style="italic">Inequality in Australia 2018</inline> report. This report highlighted that those living on Newstart have very limited incomes. Specifically, it found that 63 percent of Newstart recipient households are in the lowest 5 percent of incomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The report also found, with regard to income inequality, that someone in the top 1 percent of the income scale earns more in a fortnight than someone in the lowest 5 percent earns in a year.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A strong social safety net is a key part of addressing income inequality. It ensures that when people fall on hard times there are supports in place to help them when they need it most.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A strong social safety net is also the foundation of a more inclusive and productive society.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Allowance payments need to be increased as a matter of urgency as people receiving unemployment and student payments have the highest rates of poverty.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The ACOSS report <inline font-style="italic">Poverty in Australia 2016</inline> found that there are 2.99 million people (13.3 percent of the population) living below the poverty line in Australia, after taking account of their housing costs. 731,300 of these are children. Of those on income support, 36.1 percent are living below the poverty line, including 55 percent of people receiving Newstart Allowance. Furthermore, single people generally face a significantly higher risk of poverty than couples (24.6 percent to 10.1 percent) while 33.2 percent of single parent families are living in poverty compared with 11.3 percent of couples with children.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Salvation Army's <inline font-style="italic">National Economic and Social Impact Survey 2018 </inline>reported that after paying for accommodation, Newstart recipients were left with only $17 a day to cover their other expenses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">95 percent of the 1,267 respondents to the survey were relying on income support as their primary source of income and the same percentage of households were under the poverty line.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The University of New South Wales report, released in 2017, <inline font-style="italic">New Minimum Income for Healthy Living Budget Standards for Low-Paid and Unemployed Australians </inline>found that the long-term decline in the adequacy of income support payments is a major policy failure that needs to be addressed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This report, which builds on previous Australian and recent international research to develop a set of budget standards for low-paid and unemployed Australians and their families, outlined just how far Newstart is falling behind. The report found for those out of work and reliant on Newstart, the safety net provisions fall short of budget standards estimates by $96 a week for a single person.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">In the last week, the National Sustainable Development Council with the Monash Sustainable Development Institute published the <inline font-style="italic">Transforming Australia: SDG Progress Report</inline>, which outlines our progress towards meeting the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals by 2030.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This report found that of our income support payments, only the pension is currently keeping up with the poverty line.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It found people on Newstart, who would have been on the poverty line in 2000, were 20 percent below the poverty line by 2014. Single recipients of the payment without dependents were worse off, being more than 25 percent below the poverty line by 2014. The report attributes the difference between the pension and Newstart, as well as other allowances, mostly to indexation rules, which this Bill seeks to rectify.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Poverty undermines access to education and training, and educational outcomes are directly correlated with socio-economic status. Poverty limits access to safe, secure and appropriate housing, transport, employment outcomes, childcare and many other aspects of full participation in society. Poverty is a daily challenge for many Australians, undermining their ability to have meaningful and productive lives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Poverty has a devastating impact on children and their wellbeing. Children and young people deprived of food, clothes and other materials have reduced engagement with school, sometimes due to hunger, shame or being excluded or marginalised. It impacts children's development, education and eventually employment opportunities.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">No one in a country as rich as Australia should be living in poverty.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We know that the largest risk factor to living in poverty is unemployment and accessing the social safety net.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This is unacceptable. Our social safety net should provide those unable to find paid work with a liveable income until they find employment. This is particularly important when finding paid work is difficult for many and poverty is a barrier to finding work. The Government should not be adding to this stress by making it impossible for these individuals to afford housing, food, transport and healthcare, among other things.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We need visionary policy to overcome the underlying drivers of poverty, such as secure, affordable housing, access to education and employment, and we need to ensure we have a strong social safety net, that properly supports people.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Increasing Newstart and related payments and amending the indexation arrangements will reduce poverty for hundreds of thousands of people across Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The money spent increasing these payments will also go straight back into the economy on much needed goods and services.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Government, however, has focused its efforts on hacking away at our country's social safety net. It has deliberately and maliciously propagated myths and is demonising those accessing income support, without any compassion or understanding of the reality of living below the poverty line.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government just keeps spouting the same old tired line about the best form of welfare being a job, refusing to acknowledge that poverty is itself a barrier to employment and that there are not enough jobs out there.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Anglicare Australia's <inline font-style="italic">Jobs Availability Snapshot 2017</inline> reinforces this point. It pulls together the figures from three Government indicators from May 2017, and shows that for every level 5, or entry-level position, that was available in May 2017, there were 4.8 disadvantaged jobseekers. The snapshot is invaluable in busting open the Government's perpetuated myth that job seekers can get a job if they just try harder. It does not end there, though. The figure actually worsens when you look at the state and territory breakdowns. The ratio of disadvantaged jobseekers to entry-level vacancies was 10.7 in Tasmania, 7.5 in South Australia and 6.9 in Western Australia.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Indeed, the growing casualisation of the workforce presents a further barrier to these people finding suitable and secure work. The Government continues to brand those who rely on Newstart and cannot find a job as 'dole bludgers' and lazy. However, this could not be further from the truth. This data demonstrates that at the entry-level, there simply aren't enough jobs to go around.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">51 percent of respondents to the Salvation Army's <inline font-style="italic">National Economic and Social Impact Survey 2018 </inline>recorded finding employment or getting into education and training was their greatest challenge on a day-to-day basis.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Housing presents another difficulty for those on income support. The number of affordable and appropriate rental properties available for those on low incomes remains strikingly low. Anglicare Australia's <inline font-style="italic">2018 Rental Affordability Snapshot</inline> revealed that of the 67 365 properties listed for rent on 24 March 2018, only 6 percent or 3 729 properties were affordable and appropriate for all households on income support payments. For single Newstart or Youth Allowance recipients it was even worse, with only three properties in the entire country classed as affordable and suitable. The report uses the nationally accepted benchmark of affordability meaning rent cannot exceed 30 percent of a household budget. The report makes the point that people on low incomes have to compete for affordable housing not just with each other, but with those on higher incomes trying to minimise their housing costs. We know that this massive lack of affordable housing has come about due to a distorted system of tax concessions and a chronic lack of investment in affordable and social housing. It has resulted in those receiving income support and those on low incomes generally having to go without life's essentials in order to pay their rent on time and avoid homelessness. The report details how many of these people are living on the edge, approaching Anglicare agencies for help and support. This should not be happening in a country as wealthy as ours; we can and should do better.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Many students are also struggling. They face high rental prices and insecure work, and have recently had their penalty rates cut. The <inline font-style="italic">2017 Universities Australia Student Finances Survey</inline>, released in August 2018, only reinforces this point. It reported that one in seven domestic university students are regularly going without food or other necessities because they do not have enough money and that three in five indicated that their financial situation is often a source of worry. A third of domestic undergraduate students are receiving Youth Allowance, Austudy or ABSTUDY. This figure increases when looking at the numbers of low socioeconomic (42 percent), regional (45 percent) and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander undergraduate students (49 percent). The number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students reporting they are regularly going without food or other necessities was more than one in four, and the numbers of low socioeconomic students and regional students worried about their finances were higher too, being 63 percent and 64 percent respectively.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The call for an increase in the base rate of allowance payments has received widespread support from not only social services organisations but also from business groups, unions, academics and various economists. Even former Prime Minister John Howard has come out saying he thought the freeze has probably gone on too long.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">For decades, Liberal and Labor governments have attacked our social safety net and ignored the plight of those trying to survive on Newstart and other payments.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government have given massive tax handouts to the wealthy, their big corporate mates and donors and let them get away with not paying their fair share of tax instead of investing in the public services that we all need.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The time to raise the rate of allowance payments has well and truly come. The evidence shows that.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">I ask the Parliament to support this Bill and those receiving these allowance payments to assist in alleviating poverty, reducing income inequality and, where appropriate, to help individuals more effectively access study and employment.</para></quote>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to continue my remarks later.</para>
<para>Leave granted; debate adjourned.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MOTIONS</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>MOTIONS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Container Deposit Scheme</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:40</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That the Senate:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) notes:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (i) that South Australia, the Northern Territory, New South Wales and the Australian Capital Territory all have a container deposit system in place,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (ii) that Queensland's container deposit scheme will come into place on 1 November 2018,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iii) that Western Australia is planning to implement a container deposit scheme in 2020,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (iv) that South Australia has had a container scheme in place for decades, and has continuously had the highest rate of beverage container recycling in the country, and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">   (v) the recommendation contained in the report of the Environment and Communications References Committee on the waste and recycling industry in Australia, calling for a nationwide container deposit scheme; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) calls upon the Victorian and the Tasmanian Governments to introduce a container deposit scheme.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WHISH-WILSON</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I genuinely want to compel all senators to support this motion by the Australian Senate. The Australian Senate's Environment and Communications References Committee has done two absolutely critical reports collecting evidence from all around the country on issues relating to waste and the toxic tide of marine plastics. We know that we can remove nearly half the plastic stream that goes into our beaches and waterways in Australia by having a container deposit scheme that actually collects bottles and cans and gets recycling rates up over 80 per cent. This creates money for the community and jobs across the community, and it solves an environmental problem.</para>
<para>Many of us grew up with these cans and bottle schemes as kids. We know how they work. The only reason we don't have one around the country at the moment is the big power of corporations like Coca-Cola, Schweppes and others who have lobbied against this.</para>
<para>The community wants this. I urge the Senate to send a strong message to my home state of Tasmania and to Victoria to implement these schemes; otherwise, we need to do it here federally in the federal parliament.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:41</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I seek leave to make a short statement.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Leave is granted for one minute.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Through the meeting of environment ministers, the Australian government is working with states and territories to reduce waste and increase recycling. The Australian government encourages states and territories to adopt policies that are appropriate for their circumstances.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</title>
        <page.no>64</page.no>
        <type>MATTERS OF PUBLIC IMPORTANCE</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Energy</title>
          <page.no>64</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:42):</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT (</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I inform the Senate that at 8.30 am today four proposals were received in accordance with standing order 75. The question of which proposal would be submitted to the Senate was determined by lot. As a result, I inform the Senate that the following letter has been received from Senator Bernardi:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Pursuant to standing order 75, I propose that the following matter of public importance be submitted to the Senate for discussion:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The need for the government to take immediate and meaningful steps to reduce electricity prices for all Australians.</para></quote>
<para>Is the proposal supported?</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">More than the number of senators required by the standing orders having risen in their places—</inline></para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>112096</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand that informal arrangements have been made to allocate specific times to each of the speakers in today's debate. With the concurrence of the Senate, I ask the clerks to set the clock accordingly.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:43</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BERNARDI</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank the Senate for agreeing to debate this important issue. Few things exercise the minds of Australians more than when they receive these little envelopes in the post claiming they are electricity bills. It fills hearts with dread. It puts fear into everyone who struggles with their household budget. The reason for this fear can be laid fully and squarely at the feet of government—both stripes of government, the blue team and the red team, because for the last 10 years they have been tinkering with the electricity market. They have been corrupting the electricity market, in the sense they have sought to make it uneconomic and somehow subsidise it into existence. In doing so, they have squandered and destroyed the competitive advantage that Australia previously had—that is, an abundance of fossil fuels and an abundance of cheap electricity—and now we have amongst the most unreliable and most expensive electricity in the Western world, and it is getting worse.</para>
<para>This has all been done under the guise of climate change. Any thinking person knows that nothing Australia does to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, even if you believe that they are pollutants, is going to change the climate one jot or one tittle. Yet tens of billions of dollars have been thrown into wind power and solar subsidies to somehow change the climate.</para>
<para>In the latest incarnation of it we had the national emissions guarantee, which, of course, was abandoned when Labor's greatest Prime Minister, known as Mr Turnbull, was deposed from office. Twice he lost his leadership of the Liberal Party, twice on the basis of trying to implement an emissions trading scheme which was against Australia's economic interest. It has no benefit or relevance to the environmental circumstances in which Australia finds itself and yet it was going to damage even further every aspect of Australia's way of life and the affordability for Australian families and for industry to get ahead and create prosperity for our country. Nothing is more important to the Australian people than having reliable and cheap power, because that is what is going to propel economic growth in this country. It is what is going to allow Australians to heat their homes in winter, cool their homes in summer, keep the lights on, enjoy the benefits that an electronic age has today and also provide them with the jobs and the quality and the standard of living that they deserve.</para>
<para>It is time for governments of whatever persuasion to act in the interests of Australian citizens, not in the self-indulgent interests of the United Nations. Just today I read about the Paris climate accord. For those who are ever suspicious about its real motivation, it is about who administers a $100 billion fund to support a bunch of two-bit, often corrupt countries that are seeking to extract cash out of Western democracies under the guise of being disadvantaged because of climate change. It is nonsense. It is errant nonsense. We know that the Pacific islands are not sinking and yet they continue to demand money from Western nations. What's even more galling is the coup leader from Fiji was, until a couple of weeks ago, president of this auspicious body designed to extract $100 billion from Western nations. It's little wonder Russia's not participating. It's little wonder America has walked away from it. It's little wonder China and India aren't being held to account for their emissions. It's because they all know this is a giant con.</para>
<para>It is time for the Australian government, whether it is a coalition government or whether—God forbid—it becomes a Labor government after the next election, to start acting in our national interest. That means getting out of the electricity market, getting out of subsidising the uneconomic and the unaffordable and providing some market certainty and operational security for those countries that want to invest in electricity infrastructure but not subsidise them. If you want to help the electricity market, commit to investing or putting the $450 million the government spends every single year towards new generation— <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I thank Senator Bernardi for raising this very important subject as a matter for debate today. There is certainly a need for the government to take immediate and meaningful steps to reduce electricity prices. I am very proud and pleased to say that I am part of a government that has been doing just that over recent times. The Senate will be well aware that the coalition federal government had the courage—some might say 'stupidity', but let me use the word 'courage'—to intervene in what has, up until now, been an issue for state governments. Many people—and, I might say, including me—asked, 'Why does the Commonwealth want to get involved in an issue that the state governments have shown themselves just absolutely incapable of dealing with?' We saw the fiasco under the Labor government in your state of South Australia, Senator Bernardi, where they couldn't keep the lights on at all. There are difficulties with the Labor state of Victoria, where the Labor government can't work out whether they want brown coal or black coal. My own state of Queensland is apparently anti-coalmining, yet the budget of my home state of Queensland is run by a typically financially incompetent and corrupt Labor government. They simply need the royalties from coalmining to balance their budget. And what they don't get from royalties for coal—they use the profits from the government owned generating company to pay them huge dividends every year so that they can make some attempt to balance the budget in my home state of Queensland.</para>
<para>In my state one of the real problems—why we pay such a lot for our electricity—is that all the generating companies in Queensland are owned by the Labor government. They rip out huge profits from residents and businesses in Queensland each year. Senator Bernardi spoke about the Paris climate change accord. To a degree, I agree with what he said, although we don't need to legislate on emissions from Australia, because the target that was set for Australia—about 26½ per cent—Australia has all but met, and we're confident that within the time required Australia will be one of the few countries in the world that will meet its emission reduction targets. Many other countries pay lip service to it. They get a warm, fuzzy feeling from saying what they're going to do. But very few of them do as Australia does and actually meet those commitments. I agree with Senator Bernardi that we don't need to legislate for that. It is, after all, an aspirational target, and certainly Australia's aspirations have been to meet what we committed to. But again, like Senator Bernardi, I don't think that we should be legislated to meet targets set by others who barely do the work themselves.</para>
<para>Senator Bernardi also mentioned some of my friends in Pacific Island countries who, cleverly—they might be Pacific Islanders, but there's no doubting their wisdom and their ability to extract a dollar where they see it—talk about how they need money for climate change. And I say to them: 'You don't mean climate change, do you? You mean resilience to climate change.' I'm one of those who acknowledge that the climate is changing—because it always has. Once upon a time the earth was covered in snow. Once upon a time there was a rainforest in the centre of Australia. Clearly those two things don't happen anymore, so the climate has obviously changed. If carbon emissions were the cause of that—and I say 'if'—then Australia's contribution to carbon emissions is less than 1.4 per cent of the world's carbon emissions.</para>
<para>As Senator Williams mentioned earlier, I asked the Chief Scientist, Dr Finkel, at an estimates committee hearing not long ago what impact Australia's emissions have on the changing climate of the world, and his answer was, 'Virtually none.' So, there is virtually no impact from Australia on any climate change from Australia's emissions, yet the Labor Party would have us increase our emissions reduction to somewhere around 50 per cent; I think those are their latest dreamings. The Greens want 80 per cent or 100 per cent. As the Chief Scientist says, we can make it 100 per cent and it will make absolutely no difference to the world's climate change, because Australia's emissions are so small. Emissions from China, Russia, India and America keep rising, and none of those countries are involved in the Paris climate change accord. So, again, I agree with Senator Bernardi on those sorts of issues.</para>
<para>This is a government that has taken on the task that should have been the task of state governments, most of which are Labor. But our government wouldn't stand by and see Australians being slugged with unaffordable increases in the cost of electricity, so we've taken on the challenge. It's not easy, but we're doing what the states should have been doing over the past 10 years, because we understand that Australian families are struggling with the cost of living and rising power prices. We know that small business, which is the backbone of the economy, is also struggling with power prices. In fact, a constituent who owns a skating rink in Townsville and the same sort of facility in Bundaberg came to see me and told me that he is paying almost three times as much for electricity in Townsville as he is in Bundaberg—so work that out and tell me how that operates. You have to ask the Queensland government owned electricity generator and retailer what that's all about.</para>
<para>I live in North Queensland, not far from an area that has unlimited quantities of high-quality black coal. That is the coal that used to give Australia a competitive advantage by providing perhaps some of the cheapest and most efficient electricity anywhere in the world. But over the years the Greens political party and the Labor Party have ignored the interests of their workers and of the residents of Australia, who are now paying enormous prices for electricity. Because Labor and the Greens are concentrating on renewable power, which is highly subsidised by the taxpayer and very expensive for the consumer, electricity prices have gone up, while huge reserves of high-quality black coal not far from where I live are left untapped. As a very good ad on the television at last says, 'We export all this to Japan, which is converting Australian coal into high-energy, low-emissions energy. We export our coal to the world, but we can't use it in Australia, according to the Labor Party and the Greens.' I'm pleased to say that even the CFMEU, not a union that I usually have much truck with, at least now is working out that the Labor Party's policy on renewable energy is wrong and not good for the workers it's supposed to represent.</para>
<para>To conclude, I see Senator Burston sitting here, who I'm delighted to say told me earlier—I hope this is right, and it is not for me to promote Mr Clive Palmer, I might say—that Mr Palmer has announced that he is going to build a coal-fired power station in the Galilee Basin with his own money. If that is correct, Senator Burston, then all credit to Mr Palmer, because if he does that we will be able to get cheaper electricity into the grid from a modern, efficient, low-emissions, coal-fired power station in Queensland. I am delighted. I hope that information is correct, Senator Burston, because that would really brighten my day.</para>
<para>This government is concerned about the rising cost of electricity for ordinary Australians. We have taken steps to see how we can force the generation companies and the states into reducing that cost, because we are concerned about the cost of living for all Australians.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>15:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator McALLISTER</name>
    <name.id>121628</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The subject for debate is the need for government to take immediate and meaningful steps to reduce electricity prices for all Australians. I hope there isn't anybody in the chamber who disagrees with that proposition. I don't find myself in agreement with Senator Bernardi very often, but that is a question that I think we do agree on. I think Senator Bernardi and I would disagree on almost every other question about how that's to be achieved. Before I go to the substance of that disagreement and why I disagree with him, I want to make some remarks about Senator Macdonald's contribution just now. The essence of his contribution is that the Commonwealth has no role in energy policy. What an ahistorical, silly, irresponsible attitude to take on one of the most substantial policy issues facing the nation. What a ridiculous contribution.</para>
<para>When I say ahistorical, I will invite Senator Macdonald to have a look at the history of what he has called, tellingly, the national electricity market. Australia's electricity market is actually quite remarkable. It comprises the world's longest interconnected power system. We are a big continent with a small population that's highly concentrated, and the way that we've managed that is to build quite a remarkable national market which sees energy flow from all over the country to where it is needed. To do that absolutely requires a national perspective.</para>
<para>I'm not entirely surprised that Senator Macdonald, with his typically parochial attitude, comes in here and says, 'This is a matter for the states.' But that is not the historical record. The NEM was absolutely developed with the involvement of the Commonwealth. It is a product of COAG negotiations and there are a range of institutions that answer directly to the Commonwealth minister in relation to energy. Senator Macdonald's contribution was, simply, factually wrong. That has been the case since 1988 when the national energy market was initiated.</para>
<para>On the question of the development of renewables in this country, I will also give some credit where credit is due. The Renewable Energy Target, the instrument which drove the investment in renewables in South Australia that Senator Macdonald likes to complain about so regularly, was initiated by John Howard's government. It was initiated in 2001. It is an institution that has had bipartisan support in recognition of the fact that the contemporary environment requires us to transform our electricity system. The truth is that we are now in a position where renewables present the cheapest form of power available to us. When combined with other mechanisms, such as storage and gas, they present an opportunity for reliable power that is significantly more affordable than investing in new coal-fired generation, which is the proposition put before us again and again by the climate deniers on the coalition backbench and just occasionally their frontbench, as Malcolm Turnbull learnt to his cost and insufficiently for him to keep his job, apparently. Those on the other side will not rest until they've got a climate denier and a coal enthusiast in the top chair. They've got that in Scott Morrison, haven't they? He's a guy who was willing to go into the chamber, fondling in a weird kind of way a lump of black coal. What a disgrace!</para>
<para>It represents a complete rejection of the economic advice. It represents a rejection of the advice provided by all of the government institutions whose exclusive focus is on understanding the nature and the dynamics of the electricity system and the electricity market and providing advice on that. Their advice, consistently, is that our path ought to be renewables. It rejects the advice from industry. I have sat on inquiry after inquiry where industry has come before us and said, 'For heaven's sake, all that we require to resolve the situation in the electricity market is certainty about carbon pricing and then we can get on with the job, because we know that we have technology that can meet the future needs of households and business and we can do it in an affordable way.' That is what the government has been told by business. That's what we've been told by business. It's what parliament has been told by business. More than ample advice has been provided to this crowd about what the path forward ought to look like, and they will not heed it. They choose not to heed it because they would prefer to engage in a culture war that speaks to a narrow part of their base than to deal with the information and evidence before them. They would prefer to deal with a loopy dream about the future of new coal-fired power stations than to deal with the advice provided by industry, by economists and by technologists. They would prefer to play politics than deal in a serious way with the policy questions that are before them.</para>
<para>What's become clear now is that, in its fifth year of office, the government has no energy policy. Mr Morrison walks in here, his first day on the job as Prime Minister in the parliament, and what is his energy policy? He doesn't have one. He's able to tell us what it's not, because the NEG is dead, just like the clean energy target is dead and the emissions intensity scheme is dead and the CPRS is dead—all serious attempts by the policymakers in our national institutions to develop a coherent energy framework and all killed off, one by one. Every serious policy instrument was killed off by the knuckle draggers on the other side, by the people who will not support those who seek to make a policy. So we are well into the fifth year of this government and Mr Morrison doesn't have an energy plan. He said the NEG is dead. He's going to head off to the party room tomorrow. I don't think there's any indication at all that he's going to take a new policy to the party room tomorrow. He'll probably stand up and mouth the same meaningless platitudes that I heard in question time today about how they want low prices. The thing is that we know what's required for low prices but it's news that this crowd doesn't want to hear, so we find ourselves without an energy policy at all. One thing we know about it is that it's not going to be the NEG. And it's also not going to deal with climate change.</para>
<para>Again I say this: every serious, credible industry player acknowledges that our energy system is going to need to become less carbon intensive and that the cheapest way for the Australian economy overall to meet its emissions reduction goals is to make changes in the energy sector. Making changes in the transport sector is expensive and difficult, making changes in the agricultural sector is expensive and difficult but making changes in the energy sector is actually affordable. All the modelling shows this. And yet the coalition come here, rule out changes to the electricity sector and make no commitment at all about how they're going to treat emissions that come from farming and transport. And I say this to those on the other side who might have constituents with an interest in farming or an interest in transport: what do you think is going to happen if you fail to reduce emissions in the electricity sector? How do you think the Paris commitments are going to be met? The natural and logical consequence of not doing anything in the electricity sector is that you have to work harder and lift heavier in those other sectors. No-one's being honest with those constituents about that question.</para>
<para>This is a farce. It is nowhere close to a coherent energy policy, it is nowhere close to a coherent climate policy, and it will have real consequences for Australia. What industry has said is that they just need certainty. They need a clear energy policy framework so that they can get on with planning their investments. As it becomes apparent that certain plants are going to close because they are 25, 30, 35, 40 years old and absolutely at the end of their life, we need industry to step up and make new investments. And they can only do that if they understand what our commitments are in terms of emissions reduction in the electricity sector, how that is integrated into the way that prices operate in the National Electricity Market and what the return will be on their investment if they do step up and invest. They say they're ready to do it. All they need is an integrated policy that will deal with climate and energy, but for five years they've been asking and for five years they've been waiting, and five years in they've still got nothing.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:08</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator LEYONHJELM</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have represented the Liberal Democrats in the Parliament since being elected five years ago. Clive Palmer was elected at the same election. During that parliamentary term, I fought for and voted for lower electricity prices at every opportunity. However, those of us who cared about everyday Australians facing rising electricity prices were thwarted by Clive Palmer. Clive Palmer voted to save the renewable energy target. His own list of parliamentary achievements says so in Palmer's typical black and yellow. He saved the renewable energy target. The renewable energy target is responsible for high electricity prices, so Clive Palmer is a major contributor to high electricity prices.</para>
<para>For nearly two decades, the renewable energy target has mandated the payment of financial support to renewable electricity generators from the rest of the electricity market. It has cost customers and reliable fossil fuel generators very dearly. For nearly two decades, this mandate to provide financial support to renewable electricity generators has hung over the heads of would-be investors in reliable fossil fuel based generation. As a result, there has been hardly any new non-renewable electricity generation and, with supply so constrained, electricity prices have gone through the roof. This is the fault of Clive Palmer.</para>
<para>But now Clive Palmer is filling our airwaves, saying he wants lower electricity prices. What a bald-faced lie! When he had the chance he squibbed it, and if he were given another opportunity he would squib it again. Clive Palmer says in his ads that he wants more coal-fired power in Australia. Yet when he was in parliament he saved the Renewable Energy Target, which is effectively a ban on new coal-fired power in Australia. Clive Palmer says in his ads that he thinks the GST should be taken off electricity. But when he was in parliament Clive Palmer didn't lift a finger to make this a reality. It was I who, on behalf of the Liberal Democrats, introduced legislation to make electricity GST free. Clive Palmer did nothing for everyday Australians. For Clive, it's all about Clive. He's a hypocrite who will say anything to get himself back into politics. A vote for the Liberal Democrats is the only vote you can trust to cut electricity prices at every opportunity.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator MOLAN</name>
    <name.id>FAB</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The matter of public importance today is the need for the government to take immediate and meaningful steps to reduce electricity prices for all Australians, and that's exactly what we're doing. We have a minister who has but one job, and that job is to do exactly what this MPI calls for. We have a minister who has background and knowledge in this area and has the support of the government. We have an energy policy, despite what Senator McAllister says, and that energy policy is as complex as we want to make it, but, quite simply, it consists of a safety net price—that is, a default market offer. If you're on an inflated offer and go to this standard offer, the ACCC estimates the price of your electricity could fall by between $180 and $416 a year, and small businesses could save up to $1,457. That safety net price or default price is the first part of the policy.</para>
<para>The second part is a big stick. It gives the government serious new powers so the ACCC can stop energy companies ripping off customers. The third part of our policy is new energy generation. That is a technology-neutral program to underwrite new, stable, low-cost generation for commercial and industrial customers. As Senator Cormann reminded us and, in particular, the Greens today during question time, we remain committed to achieving our Paris agreement, just as we met and exceeded the Kyoto target.</para>
<para>Senator McAllister suggested that we in the coalition should consult constituents who are involved in transport and farming. I certainly have those constituents and I certainly have consulted them over the last three or four months. What they tell me is that they want lower prices, and we will deliver those lower prices for them. This government is absolutely committed to reducing power prices while keeping the lights on. We know that power prices have risen by 56 per cent over the last 10 years. We understand Australian families are struggling with the cost of living and the rising power prices, which are impacting on their household budgets. Small businesses, the backbone of this nation, are also struggling with rising power prices. This prevents them from being able to employ more people and take advantage of new opportunities.</para>
<para>We will not be distracted from our goal of lowering power prices for Australian households and small businesses. The electricity sector needs to re-establish its credibility and trust with the community, and the coalition government will ensure the interests of customers come first. As I explained before, we're taking very practical actions to lower power prices: stopping price gouging by energy companies, providing customers with a price safety net, backing investment in reliable generation and encouraging more competition in the market. We've turned the corner on power prices, with reductions announced already in Queensland, New South Wales and South Australia from 1 July 2018. And I can assure you, Mr Acting Deputy President Sterle, that the coalition government is not afraid to use a big stick on the big energy companies to stop the big rip-offs.</para>
<para>And we stand on our record and on our policy. We have secured more gas for Australians. Prices are down by up to 50 per cent. We did this by introducing the Australian Domestic Gas Security Mechanism, securing an agreement with LNG exporters to offer gas to the domestic market, and committing $90 million in the 2017-18 budget to expand gas supply and increase competition in the market. As a result, gas prices have now fallen from close to $20 a gigajoule in early 2017 to $11 a gigajoule in 2018.</para>
<para>We have reined in the power of the networks; if Labor had done it sooner, that would have saved Australia $6 billion. Past over-investment in networks is the biggest contributor to the increase in electricity prices over the last 10 years, and this government has abolished the Limited Merits Review regime. We have got customers a far, far better deal. After meeting with government, retailers have simplified their offerings and written to around 1.6 million households in this country to tell them better deals are available. Over one million people have visited the government's website to compare offers. We are changing the rules to get retailers to lift their game, including banning dodgy discounting practices; getting retailers to notify price rises more quickly so that customers can shop around; and speeding up metering in stores. As I said before, we have seen retail prices come down in Queensland, New South Wales and South Australia as of 1 July.</para>
<para>Labor's appalling policy was essentially based on hope. Electricity bills under Labor will soar, and gas and coal fired power stations will close, if the share of wind and solar generation increases dramatically. This comes from engineers who have warned after analysing the nation's energy supply. The analysis casts severe doubt on Labor's claim that a 50 per cent renewable energy target, the centrepiece of the opposition's energy policy, would reduce electricity prices. It found that bills were likely to soar by 84 per cent, or about $1,400 a year, for the typical household if wind and solar power supplied 55 per cent of the national electricity market. And that's what Labor's policy is. A RET of 50 per cent would not reduce bills; 50 per cent renewables means an 85 per cent in bills to $1,400 for the average household.</para>
<para>As the head of the ACCC, Rod Sims, reminds us, electricity prices have gone up by 50 per cent over the last 10 years, but standing offers have gone up to 100 per cent. So we need a strong cop on the beat. We need a government which is prepared to act to create a truly competitive market in the energy sector. Many people are still stuck on high standing offers. The default offer should be set by government, and that is certainly now within the power of the ACCC. The ACCC has given us a blueprint to get the offers down.</para>
<para>Labor's record on all of this, if we are considering how to get prices down, is very, very interesting. During six years of Labor government, power prices doubled and they went up each and every year. The Labor government gave us pink batts, the carbon tax, cash for clunkers and a citizens assembly as their response to rising power prices. Federal and state Labor policies have continued to increase pressure on prices through job-destroying gas bans and moratoriums, unrealistic renewable energy targets and open hostility to reliable dispatchable power. Bill Shorten wants a 50 per cent renewable target on a national level, which will mean more subsidies and therefore higher prices and greater unreliability.</para>
<para>Labor also wants Australia to go far beyond the rest of the world and cut carbon emissions by 45 per cent. This reckless policy will harm our economy, and it will definitely cost jobs. Under Labor's emissions intensity scheme, households would pay $300 a year more on their power bills compared to under the coalition. Labor's true thinking was revealed by its Labor Environment Action Network, which said, 'High prices are not a market failure, they are proof of the market working well.' That's not a view held by most Australians. In the last polls taken, 70 per cent of Australians reported that they would like to move out of Paris if that meant lowering their electricity prices. The fact is that Australians will pay higher power bills under Labor and they will be left in the dark.</para>
<para>Of course, the impact of lower energy prices on Australia's ability to generate jobs in the way that we've generated them over the last couple of years—a million jobs since 2013—and on running the economy is absolutely critical. The budget is now in a good position and the economy is in good shape. When we took over from Labor in 2013, not only because of the appalling Labor Party energy policy but for a range of reasons, the economy was on the way down and the budget was in trouble. We changed that and we will lower prices for energy. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KIM CARR</name>
    <name.id>AW5</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Bernardi, of course, left the Liberal Party in February 2017. He said at the time that it was because he thought there was an irredeemable political force dominating the Liberal Party. Today, he told us that Malcolm Turnbull was, in fact, Labor's Prime Minister. If he had been a little more patient, he may well have discovered that he would be part of that coalition that now dominates the Liberal Party. He would find that the positions he complained so bitterly about would in fact become the dominant view of this government—that is, an intense hostility to modernity and a contempt for the modern world in many respects. He may well have found that if he'd just had that little bit more patience he would have got a prime minister who doesn't actually believe in climate change and who doesn't actually believe in the importance of science. He would have had a Minister for Energy who has demonstrated his intense hostility to the need for action to be taken to support Australian industry in terms of understanding our role within the world.</para>
<para>What we've got here is a proposition before us—and I see that the government now finds that it has to compete with the governments of Brazil and other such places in condemning energy companies as worse than banks. It has been said on many occasions that there need to be interventions, the like of which South American regimes of various stripes would blush at. But, of course, this is all coming from a free-marketeer government that is so desperate, faced with the prospect of its falling public support, that it has to seek out these various measures to change what has been a fundamental policy failure now for well over 10 years. It's a policy failure that has seen this country crippled when it comes to dealing with one of these great issues that confront this parliament in terms of the future of the nation in regard to energy, in regard to energy prices and in regard to climate change. These are the great moral questions, the great economic questions and the great social questions that have confounded government after government. Despite the very best efforts of various elements in this parliament to reach out to try to get a bipartisan approach on these questions, we've not been able to secure that simply because there are a group of people in this parliament who are so reactionary and so hostile to the modern world that they refuse to engage in anything other than running banal advertisements on TV.</para>
<para>We saw them throughout the football finals last year—the so-called 'Powering Forward' campaign, which claimed that the government had now improved affordability, reliability and sustainability in the national energy market. They spent $9.3 million to do that. They're doing it again during this football finals season, asserting, again, that they have suddenly turned the corner and achieved great change as a result of the miraculous rejection of everything they've stood for throughout the last 12 months. They're still aiming to run these quite disgraceful advertisements at some $300,000 every 60 seconds, seeking to persuade football enthusiasts that something is actually happening in this country on the question of climate change.</para>
<para>What we saw month, after month, after month was the government claiming that they had the answer with the National Energy Guarantee, only for them to abandon it. Then the Prime Minister they so despised had to be removed—a Prime Minister who described himself as a 'progressive' in his exit interview, a word we haven't heard for a while. They replaced the former energy minister, Mr Frydenberg, with a new energy minister, Mr Angus Taylor, who was described as 'mad and morally irresponsible', according to Liberal moderates. They suggested that the position the government had adopted as a result of Mr Morrison's complete capitulation to the spineless attitude of this government when it comes to dealing with fundamental issues confronting this country was nothing more than 'morally irresponsible' and 'mad'.</para>
<para>This position was reflected not just by Labor governments but by the government in New South Wales. Senior Liberal figures were dismayed at the direction the Morrison administration had adopted in regard to energy policy, and they were concerned at the appointment of Mr Taylor, who, as I said, had campaigned against wind farms and renewable energy subsidies. But, of course, he had declared that the energy companies were in fact worse than the banks. What was their response to this? We'll have a royal commission. But will we look at the issue of privatisation, of deregulation? Will we look at the effect that government policies have had on the capacity of these companies to take advantage of their market power? Of course not. What we'll do is find a device by which we can distract people in the hope that they can somehow or other, as Senator Molan just told us, 'rebuild credibility and trust with the community'.</para>
<para>Well, we saw the results of that this morning in the opinion polls. We saw the result of a party, once again, seeking to remove the leader because he couldn't satisfy them. No matter how craven Mr Turnbull was when it came to attempting to satisfy the knuckle draggers and shellbacks of the Liberal Party, no matter how extraordinarily despicable he was in his attitude, he could never ever satisfy them. So, of course, he had to be replaced with Mr Morrison, who was egging him on all the time, suggesting he should call a spill and take them by surprise. Then—surprise, surprise—who ends up as the beneficiary? Mr Morrison, who could then say: 'I did it without any blood on my hands. I had no blood on my hands whatsoever.'</para>
<para>Mr Morrison can put his baseball cap on. He can shoehorn himself into the latest commentary at the Sharks. Of course, he's a fairly recent convert to that football club in Sydney. He had a bit of trouble in Melbourne, where he doesn't quite understand the culture, when he introduced himself to the punters there and got asked the question, 'Who are you?' 'I'm ScoMo,' he said, expecting that everyone would immediately pick up this marketing device as being the answer to the fundamental failure in policy, which is the current situation.</para>
<para>What has the Liberal Party done? They've produced yet another change in the government and, for the first time in recent history, they've not been able to produce a post-spill poll boost. The outcome of all their deliberations, all their manoeuvrings, all their backstabbing and all their bitterness and strife has been to actually go backwards still further. So this is how they are going about rebuilding credibility and trust with the community. They won't deal with the substantive policy questions that are actually required in this country. They think that you can secure the confidence of the public as a marketing exercise by putting on a baseball cap and strutting around the back streets of marginal electorates and pretending to people that they're doing things when, of course, they're not. Having told people for months that if the NEG was not delivered there would be a price increase for electricity and that if there was an implementation of the NEG there would be a lowering of prices of some $300, all of that has been thrown away as a result of the change of heart over this last weekend.</para>
<para>As the former Prime Minister, Mr Turnbull, made the point, the coalition simply can't get it right when it comes to these fundamental issues because they have no real esprit de corps about those fundamental questions, about why they are actually here. What is the point of the Liberal Party when it comes to the future of this country? They have lost sight of that basic premise, and we will see after the election just where that takes them. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:31</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BURSTON</name>
    <name.id>207807</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak in support of the matter of public importance raised by Senator Bernardi. I speak as Senate leader of the United Australia Party, so I suggest that Senator Leyonhjelm listen very carefully. I know he's watching. The earth below our feet is teeming with energy-rich natural resources. Australia's mineral wealth is outstanding. We have tonne upon tonne of clean coal and we have the largest deposits of uranium in the world. There is another area in which we are top of the tree on a global scale, and that is not good. This, of course, is the area of energy costs. When it comes to energy costs, we are positively a poppy so tall it would rival a sunflower for attention. Energy prices in Australia are scandalous. They are higher than in New York or London. Australians are paying a higher percentage of their stagnant wages on energy than people in any other developed country. This might be pardonable if Australia were a remote island in the Pacific with little ability to support itself, but we are an island continent exporting hundreds of millions of tonnes of coal around the world to assist others in maintaining their energy supply at a reasonable cost.</para>
<para>I live in the Hunter Valley, home of the largest coal-exporting port in the world. Australia also exports uranium. We have a third of the world's supply of uranium and we were the third-biggest exporter of it in 2017. Again, it's more of the family silver that we're flogging off at the cost of our own people. A rudimentary understanding of economics tells you that the way to drive down prices is to increase supply. If we are to make Australia truly great, as the United Australia Party pledges, we need a root-and-branch rethink when it comes to electricity production. At the moment, though we all wish that renewables were the answer, the fact is that they cost Australians money. They don't reduce bills. It is time that we built a new generation of base load, job-creating, coal-fired power stations. Chairman of Waratah Coal, Mr Clive Palmer, today announced that Waratah Coal will build a new coal-fired power station in the Galilee Basin in Queensland, the document stating that fact being lodged with the Queensland state government. I support Senator Bernardi's matter of public importance.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HANSON</name>
    <name.id>BK6</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>There is a need for the government to take immediate and meaningful steps to reduce electricity prices for all Australians. The so-called national energy market is, in fact, not a market at all because there is limited competition between the companies which control the $11 billion of electricity traded annually. Competition needs to be restored so that an electricity market can be created and coal-fired power stations need to be built.</para>
<para>The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, ACCC, recommends that market participants be limited to owning or controlling dispatch of no more than 20 per cent of generation capacity because, currently, artificial shortages of electricity are being created to drive up prices. Network costs—by that, I mean the cost of transmission lines—need to be written down in the books of state governments and other entities, because so much of that cost has been wasted on gold plating assets. Let me explain: they are encouraged to build transmission lines, or poles and wires, they don't need and to a much higher standard than needed, because they are then financially rewarded. Consumers should not be asked to continue to pay for services in their quarterly bill that they do not receive. Finally, the government needs to break up the integrated players, who both own electricity generation assets and sell electricity to customers. Too much transfer pricing is taking place, with the result that consumers are being gouged. I would support a royal commission into the conduct of the integrated electricity providers who have gouged customers. It is time the truth came out.</para>
<para>The ACCC report <inline font-style="italic">Restoring electricity affordability and Australia's competitive advantage</inline> is full of sensible recommendations. I challenge the government to implement them rather than doing nothing, as they have with the Callaghan report into the petroleum resource rent tax. Delay in implementing just one of those recommendations concerning the netback price of gas is costing Australians $1 million a year.</para>
<para>The government needs to stop subsidising intermittent and unreliable energy sources, to the tune of around about $10 billion by 2020. If it wants to keep doing that, then it should be subsidising new coal-fired power stations, because its policies have seen us retire old coal power stations, which are the backbone of the network, and made replacements impossible to finance. If we let Labor into government here, they will put us on a 45 per cent emissions trading scheme. What's been found is that at 55 per cent we're going to be seeing an increase of 84 per cent in our power bills. <inline font-style="italic">(Time expired)</inline></para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:37</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATRICK</name>
    <name.id>144292</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on today's MPI concerning the need to reduce electricity prices. Electricity and gas prices represent the fastest rising household expense behind tobacco. My home state of South Australia has the highest retail prices in the country. This is bad news for households and bad news for businesses. I have had business after business roll through my office, raising concerns with me about the price of electricity and describing how it puts their viability at risk.</para>
<para>Both households and businesses want to see energy prices lowered—that's obvious. But how? Coming from an engineering background, I advise the chamber that we must do this by first laying out the top-level requirements. The first requirement is reliability; the power must be there when we need it. We want to have clean power. We must move towards cleaner energy sources in a controlled and planned manner, making sure that Australia's emission targets are met. We need to make sure the price is affordable, that we remain competitive. We also need investment certainty so that businesses can invest. We've seen in South Australia what happens when you pursue one element—in their case, clean, renewable energy—without considering its effect on price and reliability.</para>
<para>How do we achieve meeting all of the requirements? Centre Alliance supported the research behind the NEG. It was a good compromise between reliability, price and the need to deal with climate change. There were other solutions. Former Senator Nick Xenophon and former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull, in conjunction with Frontier Economics, came up with an EIS back in 2009. It wasn't liked by Labor at first, but they eventually adopted it—but by the time they did, unfortunately, the coalition had decided they didn't like it. Then we saw Finkel, then we saw the NEG and then we saw the NEG-plus with an ACCC report component to it. Now, after a leadership change, we go to something different that does not address all of the requirements, and that is problematic. There are many solutions to our power woes. We can make it work, but, before we can do that, we must first make the parliament work. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The focus of this MPI is on electricity prices, but, for many, it is electricity bills that are more important. Reducing electricity prices is one way to bring down energy bills, but not the only way. Improving the energy efficiency of houses, for example—as my private senator's bill currently before the parliament seeks to do—will significantly reduce household power bills by addressing demand as opposed to supply. The bill offers landlords a tax offset of up to $2,000 a year for energy efficiency upgrades to their rental properties. More energy-efficient houses will use less electricity and have smaller electricity bills—it's that simple. And that's why I believe my legislation should be supported.</para>
<para>But the government also needs to take steps to reduce electricity prices, as that will flow through to bills. Basic economic theory tells us that increasing supply of a commodity to a market will reduce the commodity's price. If we want to maintain downward pressure on electricity prices, we must increase supply. But, unless we want the government to go it alone, we must establish some policy certainty so that the private sector has the confidence to invest.</para>
<para>As we have seen through the success of the renewable energy target, the private sector will happily invest in new supply, provided the right policy environment is in place. Currently there are 54 renewable energy projects either under construction or soon to start construction in Australia, delivering $11.2 billion in investment and creating nearly 8,000 jobs, including over 1,300 in my home state of South Australia.</para>
<para>Let's not be naive. History shows us that achieving policy certainty on the intrinsically interconnected issues of energy and climate change has been exceptionally difficult. That's why I'm deeply disturbed by the government's abandonment of the NEG. Whilst not perfect, it was a workable framework and had the endorsement of a critical mass of key stakeholders, as well as most MPs and senators. Importantly, it also provided a platform for reducing emissions in the electricity sector.</para>
<para>Climate change is not going away, and, as one of the richest and most high-emitting nations per capita on earth, we must do our fair share. Any energy policy that fails to also deal with the issue of emissions will be dogged by continuing political uncertainty. That is why the private sector will not invest in coal-fired power stations in Australia going forward. The carbon risk of an asset that will cost $3 billion, take eight years to build and operate for 50 is simply too high. The good news is that solutions to decarbonising our electricity sector are also solutions to our high energy prices. The government's NEG modelling found that $400 of the $550 forecast to be saved would be due to renewable energy investment under the NEG, and modelling by RepuTex Energy from July found that 45 per cent would drive down wholesale prices. So a higher emissions reduction target means more supply and lower electricity prices.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The time for the discussion has expired.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Great Barrier Reef Foundation, Child Support</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Order for the Production of Documents</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Consideration</title>
            <page.no>73</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>COMMITTEES</title>
        <page.no>73</page.no>
        <type>COMMITTEES</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Membership</title>
          <page.no>73</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The President has received a letter requesting changes in the membership of committees.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FIFIELD</name>
    <name.id>D2I</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That senators be discharged from and appointed to committees as set out in the document available in the chamber and listed on the Dynamic Red.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<quote><para class="block">Appropriations, Staffing and Security—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Birmingham and Fawcett</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Fifield and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Charity Fundraising in the 21st Century—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Community Affairs Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Brockman,</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Gichuhi</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Gichuhi</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Brockman, Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Economics Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Education and Employment Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Gichuhi</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Brockman</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Brockman</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells, Gichuhi and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Electric Vehicles—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Electoral Matters—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members [<inline font-style="italic">for the committee</inline><inline font-style="italic">'</inline><inline font-style="italic">s inquiry into the 2016 election</inline>]: Senators Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Environment and Communications Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Finance and Public Administration Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Fawcett and Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Fawcett and Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Abetz</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Abetz and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Fawcett and Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Abetz and Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Future of Work and Workers—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">House—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Fawcett</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Dean Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Law Enforcement—Joint Statutory Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Hume</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation and References Committees—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">National Broadband Network—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Obesity epidemic in Australia—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Stoker</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Privileges—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Procedure—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Birmingham and Dean Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Hume and Fifield</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Publications—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Reynolds</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Red Tape—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse—Joint Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Legislation Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Participating member: Senator Fierravanti-Wells</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport References Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Selection of Bills—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senators Birmingham and Fawcett</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senators Fifield and Dean Smith</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Senators' Interests—Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Stillbirth Research and Education—Select Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Participating members: Senators Fierravanti-Wells and McGrath</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Trade and Investment Growth—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Colbeck</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator Martin</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Treaties—Joint Standing Committee—</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Discharged—Senator Fawcett</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Appointed—Senator McGrath</para></quote>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>BILLS</title>
        <page.no>75</page.no>
        <type>BILLS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Education and Other Legislation Amendment (VET Student Loan Debt Separation) Bill 2018, Student Loans (Overseas Debtors Repayment Levy) Amendment Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>75</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6091" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Education and Other Legislation Amendment (VET Student Loan Debt Separation) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6085" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Student Loans (Overseas Debtors Repayment Levy) Amendment Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>First Reading</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:45</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills may proceed without formalities, may be taken together and be now read a first time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a first time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>75</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator FAWCETT</name>
    <name.id>DYU</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I present the revised explanatory memorandum relating to the Education and Other Legislation Amendment (VET Student Loan Debt Separation) Bill 2018 and I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a second time.</para></quote>
<para>I seek leave to have the second reading speeches incorporated in <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline>.</para>
<para>Leave granted.</para>
<para class="italic"> <inline font-style="italic">The speeches read as follows—</inline></para>
<quote><para class="block">The Education and Other Legislation Amendment (VET Student Loan Debt Separation) Bill 2018 enables the separation of VET student loans debts from other forms of Higher Education Loan Program debts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also enables a clearer and more effective transition of approved courses eligible for VET student loans.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Vocational education and training is central to Australia's economic prosperity and employment outcomes for students.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Income contingent loans in VET help achieve this prosperity by assisting students to access higher level VET qualifications.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The Government supports income contingent loans — without them, students would miss out if they could not afford to pay full tuition fees to undertake higher level VET qualifications.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The VET Student Loans program provides capped income contingent loans to students undertaking higher level VET qualifications.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With over a year of the program being in force, it is clear that it is meeting its objectives.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Completion rates are up, and the course list is successfully balancing industry needs, employment outcomes and student choice.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The capping of loans to $5,000, $10,000 or $15,000 — with an exception for aviation courses given their high cost of delivery — has limited the excessive price gouging experienced under VET FEE-HELP.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 In addition, payments in arrears and student progression requirements are ensuring loan amounts are being paid for genuine students, putting an end to unacceptable enrolment practices in the now closed VET FEE-HELP scheme.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">With these measures successfully achieving their objectives, this Bill will better measure the program's fiscal sustainability.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">There is currently limited capacity to measure the sustainability of the VET Student Loans program because a debtor's HELP repayments are not disaggregated by loan type.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Irrespective of whether the debt applies to HECS-HELP, FEE-HELP, SA-HELP, OS-HELP, historical VET FEE-HELP or VET student loans assistance, loan repayments are made towards a single, aggregated HELP debt.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This means the Government cannot accurately determine what proportion of which form of HELP assistance paid by the government has been repaid by debtors.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Similarly, where a HELP debt is not being repaid, it is not possible to identify the form of HELP assistance the debt relates to.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will separate VET Student Loans debts from other forms of HELP debts, providing greater transparency of repayment rates for VET students and better information to inform policy decisions and the public.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">From 1 July 2019, individuals who incur a VET Student Loans debt will access a separate Statement of Account for their VET Student Loans debt.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">And from 1 July 2020, the individual's Notice of Assessment will display VET Student Loans repayment details.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill will enable more timely, transparent and accurate reporting on the fiscal sustainability of the VET Student Loans program, and support greater public accountability of the program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 The repayment thresholds, repayment rates, renewable HELP balance and indexation with respect to VET student loan debts will be the same as the repayment thresholds, repayment rates, renewable HELP balance and indexation for HELP debts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A person must start repaying a debt in relation to a VET student loan once they have finished repaying any HELP debts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Consistent with existing arrangements for HELP debts, persons residing overseas who have a VET student loan debt will be required to make repayments in respect of those debts.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">A key feature of the success of the VET Student Loan program is the course list — the <inline font-style="italic">VET Student Loans (Courses and Loans Caps) Determination 2016.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This Bill also enables better continuity and more flexibility in delivering approved courses for VET Student Loans providers — providers who have proven their quality through the rigorous application process.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Loans are only available for courses on the course list. This list ensures students are only incurring a debt for courses that have high national priority, meet industry needs, contribute to addressing skills shortages and align with strong employment outcomes.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">This list is updated twice yearly. Courses are specified by reference to their course code.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">If a course becomes superseded, non-current or is reaccredited, students cannot be approved for loans to undertake the new version of the course until the next course list update.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Each time the list is updated, a number of courses are replaced by the superseding or reaccredited version.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> 4 This Bill lays the groundwork for the course list to refer to the National Register as defined in the section 3 of the <inline font-style="italic">National Vocational Education and Training Regulator Act 2011.</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Register is the authoritative information source on nationally recognised VET courses and training packages and their status.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">By enabling the course list to refer to the National Register, students will be able to be approved for a loan when a course on the list is replaced, without having to wait months for the list to be updated. It is not possible to include anticipated replacement courses on the list.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We considered alternatives before coming to the conclusion that referring to the National Register is the best approach.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The VET system is dynamic. A key feature is its capacity to provide nationally recognised training to build skills across almost every industry and sector in the Australian economy through over 2,000 courses.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Qualifications developed under Training Packages are reviewed by industry on a regular basis, with the Australian Industry and Skills Committee meeting six times a year to consider course updates. A qualification only gets a course code once it is included on the National Register.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The reaccreditation of accredited courses is considered by the relevant VET regulator. The regulator can determine to extend the currency of a course until the reaccreditation of the course is reviewed and approved. Reaccredited courses are assigned course codes once approved and put on the National Register.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It is not possible for the course list to predict what courses will be considered and approved by the Australian Industry and Skills Committee or VET regulators in advance, nor will those courses be allocated a course code until they are approved.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Updating the course list to refer to the latest version of the course on the National Register won't open up the course list and it doesn't change the methodology for adding courses to the list.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">It just ensures that students are not disadvantaged when a course is replaced.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The National Register already has clear linkages between current and superseded or expired Training Package courses. This ensures that students will only be able to access loans for courses that supersede Training Package courses on the National Register.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">We are working to make further changes to the National Register to ensure the reaccreditation of accredited courses are also clearly indicated on the National Register. These changes are expected to be made before the Determination is updated to refer to the National Register.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">The integrity of the VET Student Loans program will not be compromised.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">As I've discussed, targeting access to higher level VET qualifications that have industry need and strong employment outcomes is a key objective of the VET Student Loans Program.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">5 I commend the Bill.</para></quote>
<para>Debate adjourned.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Assent</title>
            <page.no>77</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo></subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Telecommunications Legislation Amendment Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="s1131" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Telecommunications Legislation Amendment Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Report from Committee</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:47</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>On behalf of the chair of the Environment and Communications Legislation Committee, Senator Duniam, I present the report of the committee on the Telecommunications Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, together with the <inline font-style="italic">Hansard</inline> record of proceedings and documents presented to the committee.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018, Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>78</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <p>
              <a href="r6081" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
              <a href="r6072" type="Bill">
                <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                  <span class="HPS-SubDebate">A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</span>
                </p>
              </a>
            </p>
            <a href="r6073" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>78</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>16:51</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—The Greens oppose schedule 1 and schedule 2 in the following terms:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 1, page 3 (line 1) to page 4 (line 3), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 2, page 5 (line 1) to page 6 (line 10), to be opposed.</para></quote>
<para>The reason that I'm proposing these amendments is—if we look at what amendment (4) on sheet 8504 does—this seeks to remove schedule 1, relating to increasing the maximum excess levels, from the bill. Under this proposal, what we are looking at is a proposal to increase the excess for singles from $500 to $750 and for families from $1,000 to $1,500.</para>
<para>The supposed point of private health insurance and the enormous subsidies that go towards it are so that people are more inclined to use their private health insurance cover and to ease the pressure on our public health system. That is the intended purpose. We know it has failed to achieve that. We know that, in fact, the huge subsidies—the tens of billions of dollars that have been given to the private health insurance industry in the form of the rebate and a whole range of other penalties, tax concessions and so on—don't take the pressure off our public hospital system. What we do know is that, by increasing the excess for both singles and families, we are going to see people becoming less likely to utilise their cover when the time comes. We know that many people are taking private health insurance out simply to avoid paying the penalties associated with things such as the Medicare levy surcharge. What we also know is that the higher the level of excess, the more likely it is that people won't use their cover when it comes to having a procedure done within the private system. Higher excesses will discourage people from claiming on their products.</para>
<para>What does that mean? It means, in practice, that you have provided an incentive for people to take cover. Some of those people will be liable to receive a rebate—that is, a taxation benefit, a subsidy, that is paid for by people who don't have private health insurance, let me remind you—in order to do what? It is not to use that product so that we have fewer procedures done within the public system. It's done so that more people take out a product they don't use to effectively create a larger pool of customers and to ensure that the risk is spread across those customers. But it provides very little or no benefit to the individuals who might take out that cover as a result of that incentive.</para>
<para>Amendment (4) opposes increasing maximum excess levels. If the principle here is that this is being done to ease some pressure on the public health system—at least, according to the government—then it should be easier for people to use their cover when the time comes for a procedure. Increasing the excess, saying to somebody, 'It's now going to cost you an extra $500 if you want to use your private health cover for a procedure,' makes it harder, not easier. This goes against the very purpose stated by this government about why it seeks to have more people with private health insurance cover.</para>
<para>Amendment (5) seeks to remove the discounts which are aged based—that is, for younger people. This bill allows insurers to offer discounted products to people aged between 19 and 29 of up to two per cent each year before the age of 30. As I said in my speech, this goes against the very principle of community rating, on which private health insurance is based. What it does do is undermine that principle, and it says, 'We're now going to provide incentives for you if you're younger.' Of course, conversely, it may open the door to higher premiums for people who are older and likely to use the product. It undermines the whole principle of community rating. So it's not going to have any positive effect. Indeed, the Grattan Institute's Stephen Duckett—himself a former secretary of the department—said that it's unlikely to have any real impact on premiums.</para>
<para>Consider what this government is doing to young people right now. Right now, if you're a young person in this country, you're being screwed over. You're being priced out of the housing market because we've got a government that's not prepared to tackle negative gearing and investors that are crowding young people out of the housing market. If you're a young person right now and you want to get an education, you're being lumbered with higher up-front costs. The cost of a degree is going up and the threshold at which people have to pay back their HECS has gone down, so a whole generation of young people are being lumbered with debt—and it must be said—by the very same people who benefited from a free education. These are the people who are pulling the drawbridge up behind them.</para>
<para>Of course, it's not just education and housing but climate change. We are dealing with a catastrophic, impending climate disaster because we have a government that now has no energy policy and, according to its own Energy Security Board, no chance of meeting the targets it set for us in Paris. They've effectively walked away from those climate targets. They're saying to younger people, 'You're going to have to clean up the mess that we leave behind.'</para>
<para>They're trying to do the same in health care. In health care they're saying to young people, 'Take out private health insurance. We'll provide a discount for you, even though this won't benefit you; it will benefit those people who are older and who are more likely to need the product.' I say to young people right now: don't get sucked in. Don't do it. If you're a young person right now and you're not going to be penalised for not taking out private health insurance, don't do it. We know from the department—who've said it themselves—that they understand this is a way of increasing the number of people taking out the product but not providing a benefit to the younger people who are less likely to use it. As a doctor I often get asked: 'I'm a young person, should I take out private health insurance?' My advice is very straightforward. If you're a young, fit, healthy person, it's a rort; it's a waste of money. Put that money aside for if you need to see a physio or get a pair of glasses or go to the dentist. It's much better sitting in a bank account than lining the pockets of private health insurance companies.</para>
<para>The reality is that we as a society should be investing in our public health system, providing a much more efficient way of delivering health care for our community, rather than seeking to create a US two-tiered health system, which is what these changes would drive us towards. They are trying to create a bigger pool of people taking out private health insurance, because people are awake to the rort that it's become. The cost of premiums is going up and the level of cover is going down. No wonder people are deserting private health insurance cover. What we should be doing instead is having root and branch reform of our private health insurance system. People have every right to take out private health insurance. However, their choice in taking out private health insurance should not be subsidised by the taxpayer to the tune of billions of dollars. What we have now is people without private health insurance subsidising the private health insurance cover of the people who take it out. That's a massive redistribution of wealth from people who are on lower incomes to people who are on higher incomes. We know that's the reality for people who take out private health insurance. It is skewed towards people on higher incomes.</para>
<para>Even those people who are concerned about the running down of our public health system and make a huge sacrifice to take out private health insurance cover are doing it because they have lost faith in the preparedness of the government to invest in Medicare and in our public hospitals. I understand why they do it. But demand of your governments a well-funded public health system, because tinkering around the edges of private health care won't improve our health system. We know this from experience. Look at the US. They spend on health care nearly double what we spend, because they have a model that this government aspires for Australia to have.</para>
<para>We are putting forward both of these amendments—both amendment (4) so that we remove the increase to the maximum excess, and amendment (5), the age based discounts for hospital cover, because we don't want to see a bad problem made worse. That's what this government is proposing to do. We now have close to $30 billion over the forward estimates going into a system that is failing Australians. If we want to deal with up-front costs, which have become a blight on our health system, if we want to deal with the fact that we have private health insurance ripping off consumers by reducing their level of cover and by making it harder for people to utilise their cover when taking it out, this is not what you do.</para>
<para>A 21st century health system that's based on the principles of equity and efficiency ensures that we have a well-funded, public, universal healthcare insurer. That's what Medicare is, that's what funding our public hospital system delivers, and that is the reform blueprint that will ensure people in this country get access to the health care they need—not these changes, which we know the Labor Party will continue to support. We know that they won't get to the root of the problem, which is this massive rort that has become the huge subsidies that go to prop up an industry that cares about its bottom line but doesn't care for patients.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:02</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to the government amendments to be moved to the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill and related legislation. Greens amendment (4) on sheet 8504 will have the effect of stopping the proposed increase in the maximum excess levels from $500 for singles and $1,000 for families to $750 excess for singles and $1,500 for families. The excess levels, whether you're dealing with other sorts of insurance, like car, home and contents insurance, are regularly moved and reviewed. This bill proposes to restore the excess to the 2001 equivalent. The current maximum excess levels haven't been increased since 2001. An excess of $750 will be equal to about a sixth of the cost of an average hospital stay, which was about $500 when the current level was set back in 2001. Under the current arrangements only about 40 per cent of people buy policies with the maximum allowed excess. This suggests that people are making a conscious trade-off, as we all do so often when purchasing insurance. They are making a conscious trade-off between premium costs and that gap amount that they will need to pay if they need to go to hospital. There's no reason to suppose that the availability of a higher excess will lead to people opting for amounts they'll not be able to afford if they're hospitalised. We looked to some of the evidence of the Senate committee inquiry into the bill. The Consumers Health Forum noted in its evidence to the Senate committee that consumers understand the notion of excesses, as they are features of other forms of insurance such as car, home and contents, and travel insurance. For those reasons, we wouldn't be accepting the Greens' amendment (4).</para>
<para>I will move to amendment (5) on sheet 8504. The Australian system of community-rated private health insurance relies on a pool of insured people with an age structure broadly reflective of the population as a whole. However, people aged between 20 and 30 currently have a very low participation rate in private health insurance. This is partly because of the system of lifetime health cover, which applies premium loading to people who purchase private health insurance later in life. It only starts to operate after the age of 30, so there are no positive incentives to encourage younger people to purchase insurance. Senator Di Natale, whilst you do make the point that younger people are healthy and maybe not in need of that—and there's no question around that—there is a choice that exists within that range. Allowing insurance companies to offer discounts to people under 30 will allow them to provide some incentive to encourage young people into a private health insurance pool. A discount of 10 per cent on a mid-range product with a $2,000 premium will provide a 25-year-old with savings of well over $3,000 by the time they're 45. A $200 per annum saving is effectively what this does, and the Greens' amendment would take that away. Without being too cheeky, Senator, I hope you don't mind if I just quote you. When you were talking to the young people of Australia you said, 'This won't benefit you and don't get sucked in.' This will benefit you. By the time you're 45, you'll be $3,000 up; you'll be up $200 a year. We aren't sucked in, and the government won't be supporting these amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:07</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I just want to respond to Senator Scullion. It won't benefit you because you'll have spent a fortune and got nothing out of it. It won't benefit you because you will have spent money for a product that covers the same range of services that you should be able to get under a well-funded public health system. Senator Scullion, your logic is that, instead of being 40 or 50 grand out of pocket, you'll only be 30 or 40 grand out of pocket and that somehow that represents a savings. I think that says more about your understanding of economics than it says about mine. The reality is that, for most young people in this country, taking out private health insurance is a bad economic option. Sure, private health insurance allows you to have the doctor of your choosing; that is true. But, in a market like health care where people don't have a clear understanding of what the options are and the benefits they get from that, that's actually a false choice. It may allow you to be bumped up a waiting list and have a procedure done earlier than you otherwise would. But, again, for young people those procedures are few and far between.</para>
<para>Ultimately, if we were to invest the subsidies that go towards private health into our public health system, that wouldn't be a choice that would even be worth considering, because everybody in this country would be able to have the surgery they need. Whether it's having a hip replaced, the dental care they need or an elective procedure, they would be able to have it done within a reasonable time frame within our public system. But that choice is taken away from people when we divert close to $30 billion over the forward estimates into a system that delivers no value for patients. But, gee, it delivers value for shareholders of those private health insurance companies!</para>
<para>No, this is the wrong way for any decent society to go when it comes to providing health care. We know from international experience that the most efficient model is the one where there is a single universal insurer, funded through taxes, providing health care to everybody when and where they need it. We've got that here in Australia. It's called Medicare. Let's fund it properly rather than starving it and lining the pockets of big corporations.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:10</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>One of the things this government does trust is the intelligence of young people in Australia. There is no compulsion whatsoever in this, Senator Di Natale. This is simply an offering so that those people who, due to their circumstances, choose this as the right product for them can then enter that market. We are presenting no position other than to say, 'This should be a choice.' This is another choice. Young Australians are intelligent. There is no compulsion in this. I'm quite sure they will be able to make a decision based on their particular circumstances at any time in the future.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>195565</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that schedules 1 and 2 of the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 stand as printed.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:11</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>by leave—I move, in respect of the Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, government amendments (1) to (5) on sheet LP101 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 3), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[commencement]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 3, item 4, page 10 (after line 6), after subsection 20ZHA(1), insert:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1A) Before entering the place, the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman must give the occupier of the place at least 48 hours' written notice of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman's intention to enter the place.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[notice of entry]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Schedule 3, items 6 and 7, page 11 (lines 28 to 32), omit the items, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">6 Subsection 34(2C)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Omit "to a member of staff mentioned in section 31 all or any of his or her powers or functions under this Act, other than his or her powers under section 20R and 20V", substitute "all or any of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman's functions or powers under this Act (other than those under section 20R, paragraph 20SB(4) (b) and section 20V) to a person whom the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman considers has expertise appropriate to the function or power delegated".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[delegation]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(4) Schedule 3, item 8, page 12 (line 4), omit "1 July 2018", substitute "the day this item commences".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[commencement]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(5) Schedule 3, item 9, page 12 (line 7), omit "1 July 2018", substitute "the day this item commences".</para></quote>
<para>In response to the Senate Standing Committee on the Scrutiny of Bills report on this legislation and some comments to the Senate inquiry into this legislation, the amendments have been drafted to require that the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman provide 48 hours written notice before exercising new entry and inspection powers, and only delegate his or her functions or powers to persons the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman considers to have appropriate expertise. Additional powers given to the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman in this bill are consistent with the Commonwealth Ombudsman's powers in other areas it is responsible for, including oversight and inspection of approximately 20 law enforcement agencies. The requirement for 48 hours notice responds to questions about unannounced inspections and audits, including industry concerns that they may be inadequately prepared or under-resourced to accommodate unannounced inspections.</para>
<para>With respect to the delegation provisions, the bill provides for the delegation of functions or powers of the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman to any person. The act currently provides a delegation to staff members, but a broader delegation is important to ensure the seamless and efficient implementation of the new powers. These government amendments will ensure the powers and functions are only delegated to a person whom the Private Health Insurance Ombudsman considers to have the appropriate expertise. The government amendments to the bill will also amend the commencement date for these changes from 1 July 2018 to the day after royal assent, as they are not intended to be retrospective.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018, as amended, agreed to; A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 agreed to.</para>
<para>Private Health Insurance Legislation Amendment Bill 2018 reported with amendments; A New Tax System (Medicare Levy Surcharge—Fringe Benefits) Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 and Medicare Levy Amendment (Excess Levels for Private Health Insurance Policies) Bill 2018 reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SCULLION</name>
    <name.id>00AOM</name.id>
    <electorate>Northern Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That these bills be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bills read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>82</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r6123" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>82</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate the opportunity to outline Labor's position on the government's Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018. Labor supports this bill. However, in saying that, I would like to reiterate a number of concerns I have raised and that my colleague the shadow minister for ageing has in fact raised in the other place. The bill amends the Aged Care Act 1997 and the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency Act 2013 to make provision for a single set of aged-care quality standards that will apply to all aged-care providers under the Aged Care Act. The bill will also vary the functions of the chief executive officer of the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency to reference the Aged Care Quality Standards. Currently, there are standards that cover three different areas of care. They include four standards for residential aged care, two standards for home care and two standards for the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program quality review. The new single set of standards will apply across all areas of care and will be effective from 1 July 2019. This is an amended date as there were concerns from the sector that the original start date of 1 July 2018 would give stakeholders and providers little time to do the necessary preparatory work. The new standards will focus on quality outcomes for consumers rather than providers and processes and have been driven by the sector and other stakeholders since 2015.</para>
<para>As mentioned earlier, Labor has a number of concerns. First is the length of time it has taken for the government to introduce legislation into the parliament. This was a 2015-16 budget measure. Secondly, the explanatory memorandum outlines that the bill amends the Freedom of Information Act 1982 to ensure that documents containing protected information acquired by the quality agency in the course of its functions are exempt from disclosure. As the shadow minister has already highlighted in the other place, Labor is concerned that the consumer may suffer as a result of this FOI amendment. We don't want to see important information being kept from consumers, so that's why Labor will closely monitor this change.</para>
<para>I would also like to raise the review of the National Aged Care Quality Regulatory Processes, also known as the Carnell-Paterson review. The report of this review was handed to the government on 20 October last year. The review made 10 recommendations, one of which was to establish an independent aged-care quality and safety commission. The government adopted this recommendation back in April last year and Labor understand the legislation for this will be introduced into parliament for debate soon. I would also like to acknowledge that the minister offered a briefing to Labor on this legislation. Of course, Labor welcome this announcement, but we are concerned the government has not given consideration to the delivery of care across multiple settings.</para>
<para>Before I go further, I want to put on the record our thanks to the nurses, carers, doctors and allied health professionals who work hard to deliver care to older Australians each and every day. Labor recognises that each day around the country the majority of older Australians are treated with care and respect at residential aged-care homes. I've visited so many right around this country and to see the work that's done on a daily basis, as I said, with care and respect is something that we can be proud of—although there are some that don't meet those standards.</para>
<para>What hasn't been at the forefront of any discussions are the protections for people who choose to age at home. With a growing number of older Australians choosing to age in their own homes those protections should be stronger—whether the care is being delivered in residential aged-care homes or in the family home. The minister's announcement seemed to be very focused at those providers delivering care in a residential aged-care environment. The shadow minister for ageing has written to the minister on this very issue, and there has been a commitment given by the department that the government will ensure the same quality care that is delivered in residential aged-care homes is also provided in the homes of those who choose to receive care as part of their home care package or the Commonwealth Home Support Program. With this new agency not due to begin until 1 July 2019, the government has much work to do to ensure it gets this commission right.</para>
<para>I want to spend a little time on the government's 2018-19 budget measures. You only have to look at the government's most recent budget to understand that those opposite have not put the best interests of older Australians front and centre. Why do we know this? Because there was not one new extra dollar for Australia's aged-care system in this year's budget—not one. What the government has done is pretend to give new money to aged care. But the reality is that there aren't any additional funds for the aged-care sector. This is after the Abbott and Turnbull governments cut aged-care funding by billions of dollars over the last five years. Collectively, these governments, in every budget, have cut aged-care funding. We have seen funding cuts to the Aged Care Funding Instrument and funding cuts to residential aged care. Billions of dollars are now no longer flowing to support older Australians in residential care.</para>
<para>It is now clear that the build-up to the budget and the government's rhetoric around aged care and home care did not match up with what was finally announced. It was overpromised and underdelivered. In the lead-up to this year's budget, we saw the government begin to frame its measures around aged care, particularly the support it would give to older Australians choosing to age in their own homes. Even the health minister, Minister Hunt, said on 6 May that this would be a good budget for aged care. He said: 'It's going to be a very good budget for health and for aged care in particular.' That was at a doorstop on 5 May this year. There were also big figures leaked to the media: '$100 billion', the government led with. On closer inspection of the $100 billion, it also became evident that this was not an increase of funding across the forward estimates. No new money here. The $100 billion was already in the forward estimates. And the minister, back in April 2016, confirmed this publicly.</para>
<para>Closer to the budget there were more reports that the government would be investing 'new money' into the home care packages. But this never happened. It was all just political spin. This mirage made by the government was something it could hide behind—because, quite frankly, the three ministers responsible for aged care since 2013 have done nothing over the past five years. What the government did in its budget was to simply cut money from residential aged care to pay for the home care packages. So after all the rhetoric by the then Treasurer and now Prime Minister, and the other minister, it turns out that there is in fact no new money at all in the budget for the funding of in-home care and residential aged care. The now Prime Minister was in charge of the budgets that were slashed under his watch, and that funding was taken away from this important sector.</para>
<para>In his first year as Treasurer, he tried to rip almost $2 billion from the care of older Australians. One of his first acts as Treasurer was to slash almost $500 million from aged-care funding in the 2015 MYEFO. He followed this with an even bigger cut of $1.2 billion from aged-care funding in the 2016 budget. Even as the waiting list for home care packages blew out to more than 108,000 Australians, his latest budget did not deliver one new dollar for funding to aged care. For all the claims of a baby boomer budget, the now Prime Minister again cut funding from residential aged care to try and fix the growing crisis in home care the Liberals created. Clearly, he and the Liberals cannot be trusted to ensure older Australians get the aged-care services they need. They used smoke and mirrors to pretend there was a plethora of money being allocated to aged care. The government overreached, under-delivered and let down our most vulnerable Australians.</para>
<para>As I mentioned earlier, this government has a proven track record of cutting funding and underinvesting in aged care. Over the past five years, the Abbott-Turnbull government has slashed billions of dollars from aged care and is solely responsible for the growing list that exists for in-home care. The Prime Minister and minister can no longer put their heads in the sand thinking that there is nothing more to do in aged care. It is extremely disappointing the government did not use its budgets to invest in the care that older Australians deserve. Older Australians need the government to act.</para>
<para>That brings me to a really urgent issue: the home care package waiting list. The only thing this government did before the budget, and we welcomed this, was create an additional 6,000 level 3 and 4 home care packages—no new funding, just a change of ratio. These packages were allocated by the end of December 2017. But then the government decided to be too clever by half. It reused the 6,000 home care package figure to bolster its budget announcement. The government promoted 20,000 additional packages in the lead-up to the budget, but what it had done was count the 6,000 already in the system. So, really, the announcement is only 14,000 home care packages. Funding just 14,000 new home care aged packages over four years was nothing but a cruel hoax. Three thousand five hundred places a year isn't even enough to keep pace with demand. It's particularly cruel after promising older Australians it would address the waiting list.</para>
<para>Even the Minister for Aged Care was forced to admit what we already knew: the home care packages announced in the May budget won't come close to solving Australia's aged-care crisis. Responding to whether or not the new home care packages announced in the budget would be enough to stave off the crisis, the minister could only say that the government would have to consider new measures: 'It will be the status quo for a short period of time, and then we will start to look at a range of other interventions that will reduce that wait list.' That's the Minister for Aged Care, Ken Wyatt, on Sky News on 15 May this year. In the meantime, we waited more than three months for the minister to release the data for the March 2017 quarter. Why did he delay releasing this data? The waiting list has increased. There are now more than 108,000 older Australians waiting for a home care package. Of great concern is that more than 53,000 older Australians have no home care package at all. What is this government doing?</para>
<para>There are other questions that I would like to put to those opposite. How many of the 14,000 home care packages included in the budget have been allocated? Are any of the 14,000 home care packages from the budget already allocated, therefore distorting this recent release of quarterly data? When will the minister be releasing the June quarter data due, as it's due at the end of this month? As you can see, this government is inept when it comes to driving aged-care reform and funding residential and home care services. The shadow minister for ageing and Labor members have been pressing the government to fix the home care package waiting list for over a year. The time to fix this crisis is now. The government created the aged-care crisis, it has ignored the aged-care crisis and its budget failed to fix the aged-care crisis. The government needs to apologise for overpromising, underdelivering and failing older Australians yet again.</para>
<para>In conclusion, I really do want to emphasise that Labor will be monitoring how the government drives the necessary work to deliver on this quality framework. Given this government hasn't had a good track record when it comes to reforming aged care, we are today putting them on notice that they must make these new standards work. We want to see some action when it comes to introducing this quality framework. We also want to see a commitment from the government to do the necessary work to deliver on their announcement to establish an independent aged care quality and safety commission. I would also like to take this opportunity to express our continued commitment to working with the government and the aged-care sector to ensure older Australians can age safely and happily whether it is in a residential home or their own home.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:30</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Today I rise to contribute to the debate on the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018. This bill amends the Aged Care Act 1997 and the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency Act 2013 to enable the introduction of the aged-care quality standards. This single set of quality standards will replace the four current sets and will apply across all aged-care programs. The standards themselves will be enacted via delegated legislation and will come into effect on 1 July 2019. The Australian Greens support the introduction of a single set of quality standards, which is a measure from the 2015-16 budget. The standards will eliminate some of the complexity currently within the aged-care system and provide clarity to consumers about what they can expect. The standards also shift focus to consumers and will hopefully lead to improvements in the quality of care provided. We certainly need to ensure that.</para>
<para>The quality of care being provided to older Australians by some care providers has, in recent times, been substandard. We've seen that from the numerous inquiries, in particular the numerous inquiries into the absolutely appalling situation that we saw at Oakden. Those inquiries include the Senate inquiry that I chaired, and I'll come back to that in a minute. There have been occasions of, quite frankly, shocking care, which are very regularly reported on in the media. During the Senate inquiry into Oakden, it highlighted not only the shocking care but some of the gaps in our current regulatory process. In my opinion, it highlighted the failure to properly enforce the existing regulations at the time and the standards that were operating at that time.</para>
<para>It's essential that this situation is rectified. We need to stop seeing these repeated appalling circumstances where older Australians are not receiving the care that they should be receiving. The community expects very high standards of care for older Australians. Changes such as these, in this framework, go some way towards strengthening the protections that are in place and ensuring that we have adequate standards for consumers. When we talk about 'consumers', these are residents in aged care or people receiving aged-care services. We need to ensure that we have adequate standards for them.</para>
<para>While the standards themselves will follow later, the final draft is now available online and consists of eight standards. I'm aware that this process has been through significant cycles of consultation. Each standard has a consumer outcome, has an organisation statement and contains requirements for an organisation to demonstrate adherence to the standard. Each provider will only be required to meet the standards that correspond to the care they provide and the environment they provide it in.</para>
<para>We note that the Department of Health published a summary of submissions it received in response to the first release of the Draft Aged Care Quality Standards last year. Two of the broad themes identified by the department were concerns relating to staffing levels in aged-care services and concerns regarding the capacity of the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program providers and voluntarily run organisations to comply with the standards. We share these concerns and particularly encourage the government to work with smaller providers that have limited capacity during the transition period.</para>
<para>I will note here that in the budget of 2018-19 the government announced that it would provide $50 million to residential aged-care providers to help them transition to the new standards. That's residential aged-care providers assistance, as we understand the measure, to provide them with the capacity to transition, which in itself I think is good. However, the question must be asked as to why it is only residential aged-care providers, when I've just articulated that this extends to other programs. I'm particularly concerned about the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program, which is commonly called ATSI Flexi. Those providers will need some assistance, as do other providers. So, I have a question mark there, and I'll put on notice that when we're in the committee stage I'll be asking the government about that and whether there will be some extra funding or whether the $50 million is in fact available to other service providers. I think that's a particularly important question.</para>
<para>While there has been wide support for a single set of quality standards and for the draft standards, we acknowledge that some providers and consumer groups have expressed concerns. For example, National Seniors, who took part in the consultation process, recently said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">… we’re pleased to see several indicators in the standards that directly relate to people in home and residential aged care. The standards require providers to have processes in place to identify needs and deliver aged care to meet them. These process standards are intended to focus on the end user.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">But how will the process standards operate in practice? They don’t measure the outcomes experienced. They simply insist a provider has a certain process in place. The focus on process may not improve outcomes without adequate resourcing. What’s also needed is sufficient and appropriately skilled aged care staff to meet the identified needs of the people they are looking after.</para></quote>
<para>They went on to say:</para>
<quote><para class="block">National Seniors is sceptical about the capacity of providers under the current funding and regulatory arrangements to meet the proposed new standards and improve outcomes for those they care for. Changes to standards alone won’t drive improvements in quality. Calls for more and better trained aged care workers are increasing. A recent National Seniors research report of home care found almost 40 per cent thought "things could be done better".</para></quote>
<para>And National Seniors have made several points in their comments here relating to the issues around staffing and the workforce.</para>
<para>We know that there's a lot of work being done on the workforce, but I can't stress enough how important it is that we ensure that we have in place a workforce that is appropriately qualified and that we have enough, with the demands that we're facing—not just residential aged care, which a lot of people focus on; there are a lot of other aged-care and older-Australian services that need a well-supported, trained workforce. I know that Senator Hinch will be addressing that issue, and he's circulated some amendments around ratios. I'll have more to say during the debate on those amendments but will flag that the Greens do support the concept of ratios, However, it's not simple, because, depending on the acuity—for example, if you're talking about residential care, if you're talking about the acuity of the residents—we know that more and more people are staying at home longer, which is very strongly supported by the community. But that means people are frailer when they go in, so you may need a different ratio than for those who aren't as frail. When you're talking about dementia, it depends on the model that you use for care for a person with dementia. Of course, we know there are a large range of types of dementia, and that will have a bearing on the ratios needed to be used.</para>
<para>I also want to just focus very briefly on the issues around support for people who are homeless and in residential care. In 2013, when the new Living Longer Living Better amendments came in, the government of the day—I'll give them their due for this—made sure that there was a homeless supplement as part of that process. The Greens negotiated that with the government, and I was very pleased to see that supplement put in place. Unfortunately, that supplement is not keeping up with the cost of care. There are providers that specialise in providing residential care for homeless people, which demands a particular type of care. For example, most people who are homeless and who are successful in finding residential care don't have a relative who can take them out if they need a specialist appointment. They don't have relatives who sometimes supplement or provide additional things for them. They can have complex and difficult behaviours, particularly those who have been long-time homeless. In fact, that may be related to why they were homeless in the first place. That all demands extra resources from the provider. So I urge the government to once again look at the aged-care supplement, because the figures that I have seen from those who are providing home care to people who were homeless show that they can't make ends meet—increasingly, they're further and further apart, to the point where those providers are also going to end up in crisis. We've seen recently that 40 per cent of residential providers are not making money or are not considered viable, and we have some very strong concerns there.</para>
<para>I also just want to touch very briefly on the issues around Aboriginal care. I was very pleased to see the changes that were made in the budget to ATSI flexi. We have to think very differently about the provision of aged-care services for many of our First Nations people. They need different sorts of residential care and different sorts of home care, so I think we need to be making sure that we are being as flexible as the term 'flexible funding' implies. But there is quite a long way to go there, and I'm aware that there are continuing housing problems. I'm not going to go into the whole remote housing issue per se, but I know of a number of providers who are still having trouble housing their staff. How can you provide quality care if you can't attract the staff because you can't accommodate them? We need to make sure that we are supporting these providers as much as possible.</para>
<para>This bill also makes an amendment—as I think I heard Senator Polley say as I came into the chamber—to the Freedom of Information Act 1982 to make protected information exempt from disclosure under the FOI Act.</para>
<para>The Greens do support this bill. We do think these are important reforms. We take on board the criticisms that have been made. I just articulated some from the National Seniors. The Combined Pensioners and Superannuants Association, the CPSA, has been quite critical as well, arguing that the 'new standards will hollow out an already insufficient system' and are not sufficiently prescriptive to ensure quality care. A part of the reforms being made is the new commission, which the government has made a commitment to. It will be bringing in legislation around that shortly, and obviously that is also critical to how this new commission will operate. I agree that there are some very, very critical issues in aged care in Australia—not just residential care but also home care. We know that the waiting list is outrageously long.</para>
<para>I know that there's a continuing need for the injection of funds. I know, having just spent last week talking to aged-care providers in a committee inquiry, that there are very serious and significant issues facing the viability of residential aged care and also home care—in particular, that there are more reforms to come with CDC, consumer-directed care, and further reforms along those lines to residential aged care.</para>
<para>I agree that there are continuing issues and that operationalising this framework is quite difficult in the circumstances, and so I agree with their comments. I will note, however, that COTA Australia has welcomed the consolidation of the four existing sets of standards and acknowledges the considerable work that has been undertaken to develop simple, relevant, meaningful and measurable standards. We also support bringing the single quality framework into being, and so we do support the concept of this legislation. Next is operationalising it, and there are a whole lot of other levers that we will need to pull to make sure we have a quality aged-care system.</para>
<para>We will be supporting this legislation and we look forward to debating Senator Hinch's amendments in Committee of the Whole in the not-too-distant future.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>17:46</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Mr Deputy President Williams, what is Australia's fastest-growing industry? The answer would actually surprise many people—or maybe not, given that the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018 we are currently debating is the context. If you guessed aged care, you were right.</para>
<para>Let me give a few statistics that show just how large the aged-care industry is and how quickly it's projected to grow into the future. The aged-care industry in Australia has an annual turnover of more than $20 billion and it employs more than 350,000 workers. These staff deliver services to over one million elderly Australians through more than 2,000 service providers. The government's 2015 <inline font-style="italic">Intergenerational report</inline> predicts that the number of Australians aged 65 years and over will increase from 3.6 million to 8.9 million by 2055, and the Department of Health estimates that the aged-care sector will need to expand its workforce to almost a million people by 2050.</para>
<para>I can appreciate the significance of giving older Australians the support, care and dignity they deserve in their retirement. I think we've all got the approach that people should, without doubt, be able to retire and go into an aged-care facility, if they need to go into a facility, and to age with dignity and with grace. As a senator I have visited a number of residential aged-care facilities, including a recent visit to Bishop Davies Court in Kingston with the federal member for Franklin, Julie Collins. Of course, Ms Collins was visiting in two capacities—as the local federal member and as the shadow minister for ageing. I know that Ms Collins, the shadow minister, regularly visits aged-care facilities not just in her own electorate but throughout the country. I have to congratulate her on her hard work, her consultation with the sector and her strong advocacy for older Australians—</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Polley interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BILYK</name>
    <name.id>HZB</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>as I congratulate—don't jump the gun, Senator Polley!—my Tasmanian colleague Senator Helen Polley on assisting Julie Collins in that process. I've been to a number of aged-care facilities with Senator Polley as well over the past few years. They work together to make sure that older Australians get the best possible care that they deserve.</para>
<para>When I visit aged-care facilities, I'm always impressed by the professionalism of aged-care workers and their dedication to the care of their clients. It's a challenging and demanding job but one that can also be quite rewarding. They're not highly paid jobs, when you consider the work they have to do, but, no matter how dedicated, how caring and how professional aged-care workers are, they're labouring under an aged-care system that is suffering from the savage cuts of the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government.</para>
<para>We don't expect any better under the prime ministership of Mr Morrison than what we've had under the previous prime ministers, Mr Abbott and Mr Turnbull. And we haven't forgotten that Mr Morrison has been Treasurer for the past three years and has been the architect of some of the worst policies of this government, including its aged-care cuts. One of his first acts as Treasurer was to slash $500 million from aged care in the 2015 MYEFO. This was followed by a $1.2 billion cut in the 2016 budget. In total, Mr Morrison, as Treasurer, has ripped almost $2 billion from aged care.</para>
<para>Labor will be supporting the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill, but this bill will not address the government's abysmal record when it comes to providing for the care needs of older Australians. This is a point I'll return to later, but first let me turn to the provisions of the bill. Under the current quality framework there are eight different standards across three areas of care. These include four standards in residential aged care, two standards in home care and another two standards for the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program quality review. Should this bill pass, a new set of standards will apply to all aged-care providers from 1 July 2019. The bill will also vary the functions of the chief executive officer of the Aged Care Quality Agency to reference the Aged Care Quality Standards.</para>
<para>I understand that the new standards are being developed in consultation with the aged-care sector and that the date they will come into effect was postponed to allow providers more time to prepare. A positive aspect of the new standards is that they shift the focus from provider processes to quality outcomes for consumers. While the result is positive, the government has been working on the standards since 2015 and it is unfortunate that it has taken so much time to get this legislation into parliament. Despite the amount of time the government has taken to progress the standards, it has taken until June this year for the shadow minister to have a briefing on the bill.</para>
<para>As well as the delay in getting this reform to parliament, Labor is concerned about the freedom of information provisions in the bill. The explanatory memorandum states:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The Bill also amends the <inline font-style="italic">Freedom of Information Act 1982</inline> (the FOI Act) to ensure that documents containing protected information acquired by the Quality Agency in the course of its functions are exempt from disclosure.</para></quote>
<para>Very little detail is provided about what types of documents and information will be exempt. I understand that the shadow minister, Julie Collins, is seeking further clarification about this, but it does raise concerns about whether consumers will be able to get the information they need from the quality agency's investigations.</para>
<para>While not part of this bill but related to it, we welcome the government's announcement in April that it will agree to the Carnell-Paterson review recommendation to establish an Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission. We are concerned, however, that the announcement seems to be very focused on the residential aged-care environment rather than giving consideration to the delivery of care across multiple settings. Delivery of aged care in the homes of older Australians is growing and those consumers deserve quality care and protection from failures, too. We look forward to hearing how the government will integrate home care into this newly established commission.</para>
<para>Whatever reforms the Morrison government delivers to improve the quality of aged care they will not come close to making up for the billions of dollars they have cut from the system while in government. Despite talking big on aged-care spending, the 2018 budget was a huge disappointment. On 6 May the health minister said in a doorstop interview that the 2018 budget would be, 'a good budget for health and for aged care in particular'. This was followed by leaked reports of a $100 billion investment in aged care and reports of an investment of new money in home care packages. Well, that was a cruel hoax, a cruel hoax on older Australians. The government overpromised and underdelivered once again. In fact, guess how much additional funding the government provided in net terms for aged care in the last federal budget? Was it millions? Was it thousands? No, it was a big fat zero. Every new initiative they announced in aged care was funded by cuts to other areas of the system. This follows a cut to aged-care funding in all four of this government's prior budgets. The severity of the cuts of the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison governments over five years and their lack of action in restoring funding has left us with an aged-care system that is in crisis, with rapidly growing waiting lists.</para>
<para>In terms of home based care, we know that in December last year more than 100,000 Australians were on the waiting list for home care packages! The government provided only 14,000 home care packages in the last budget and that was funded by money taken from residential aged care—that's 14,000 places over the forward estimates or a measly 3,500 places a year to address a waiting list that grew by 20,000 in the last six months alone. The latest data released now shows that 108,000 Australians are waiting for home care places, and they include 88,000 Australians with high needs, many of whom are living with dementia. The waiting list is so long that people eligible for level 3 and 4 packages are waiting more than a year.</para>
<para>I know the impact this has on older Australians because I have people contacting my office saying they have been waiting for months for a package for their parent or grandparent. My office has heard from people who have put their lives on hold to provide the care needed by their loved ones, even though they've already been assessed as being eligible for a package. And those are the lucky ones, who have family to look after them. How on earth does any Australian in need of home based care live, if they cannot get an aged-care package? We're talking about help with basic tasks like showering, transport, gardening and home maintenance, shopping and preparing meals. Can you imagine trying to perform these basic tasks yourself when you can't get the help you need to do them? I can appreciate these people's frustration and their desperation. But, try as we might, there is little that I or my office can do to help them, because the funding and the packages just are not available. The problem will not be fixed until the government acts.</para>
<para>Many older Australians on waiting lists may not survive long enough to see their package delivered. The waiting list of 108,000 people, which has grown again, is only the March quarter data, which the government has been sitting on for months. Key data has been removed from the report, including a state and territory breakdown of the figures. We know, from previous data, that there were 2,474 Tasmanians waiting for a home care package. We are still waiting for the June quarter data, which was due for release at the end of August. The fact that the government once again is sitting on this data indicates that the picture is likely to be as bad as that painted by the March quarter data, or even worse. The government must release this data immediately. After all, for the government to be accountable for solving the problem, the Australian public need to know, and they deserve to know, the full extent of it. When the Minister for Aged Care, Mr Wyatt, was asked whether the home care packages announced would be enough to solve the crisis, he told Sky News: 'It will be the status quo for a short period of time and then we will start to look at a range of other interventions that will reduce that list.' That interview was on 15 May, and we are still waiting—still waiting to hear what these so-called other interventions are or what the minister defines as a short period of time.</para>
<para>Turning to residential aged care, the situation is quite dire there as well. Independent analysis estimates a reduction of more than 20,000 residential care places over the next four years because of the Abbott-Turnbull-Morrison government's cuts. Just let that sink in a bit—a reduction of 20,000 places at a time when our population is ageing and we're going to need greater, not less, access to aged care.</para>
<para>This is a government that can somehow find $80 billion to give away in tax cuts to big business, including $17 billion for the big banks, but can't find one extra dollar to invest in care for older Australians. As Senator Polley said earlier, it's atrocious.</para>
<para>While the government is sitting on its hands, there are several aged-care reports piling up on the minister's desk, waiting to be acted on. I could name, for example, the Applied Aged Care Solutions report, the Living Longer Living Better five-year review, and expert advice about how to fix the Aged Care Funding Instrument. In relation to the Living Longer Living Better review, the government is yet to respond to 20 of the 38 recommendations, despite having had the report since December last year. As Labor have said before, the Aged Care Funding Instrument is broken, and yet we've heard not a whimper from this government about how it proposes to fix it.</para>
<para>While we support this bill, it's not good enough for the government to just expect quality standards from the aged-care sector. It's not good enough for them to just assess those standards. The government needs to provide the aged-care sector with the funding it needs to actually deliver on those standards. You cannot separate aged-care funding from quality and standards—they go hand in hand.</para>
<para>Unlike those opposite, Labor in government has a proud record when it comes to delivering aged care. Our Living Longer, Living Better reforms were a significant long-term investment in quality aged care, a $3.7 billion package over five years. And those reforms had bipartisan support until, sadly, the current Liberal government started cutting billions from aged care. Labor's reforms included an integrated home support program, more home care packages, greater choice and control through consumer directed care, fairer means testing arrangements for home care packages, funding to help carers access respite and other support, funding for more residential care facilities to be built with a focus on services in regional, rural and remote areas, trialling of consumer directed care in residential aged care, strengthening the means testing for residential care by combining the current income and assets tests, establishing a new aged-care financing authority, improving the aged-care funding instrument, $1.2 billion to strengthen the aged-care workforce, funding to support consumers in research and funding to ensure better health connections through complex health care, multidisciplinary care and service innovation.</para>
<para>The Morrison government owe older Australians an apology for their abject failure to deliver aged care for those who need it. They should apologise for the growing waiting lists and the billions of dollars in budget cuts and for their undoing of Labor's significant investment and once bipartisan approach in government. Former Prime Minister Turnbull owes aged-care workers an apology for his criticism of their work and for telling them they should get a better job. What is it that Mr Turnbull thinks makes aged care not a good job? What better job does he suggest aged-care workers get? What kind of message is the former Prime Minister trying to send to the prospective recruits of the almost one million strong aged-care workforce that Australia will need in the few decades to come? What was he saying—'Don't bother applying because it's not a good job'? Should they work as investment bankers in the institutions that the Liberals want to give a $17 billion tax cut to?</para>
<para>I think this comment speaks volumes about this government's attitude towards aged care, and this attitude goes a long way towards explaining why there has been significant underinvestment in this sector. Mr Turnbull's definition of a better job may not be the same as that of aged-care workers. I am sure many of those workers believe that they have the best job, where they get the opportunity to support elderly Australians and to provide them with dignity, respect and quality of life. I'd be interested to hear what the current Prime Minister, Mr Morrison, has to say about his predecessor's comments and whether he stands by them. I have a message for senators opposite: aged-care workers don't need a better job. What they need is a better government. They need a government that not only stands up for aged-care workers but will also stand up for older Australians.</para>
<para>It is not just the government's cuts to aged care and this slight against aged-care workers that has shown the government's contempt for older Australians. This is also the government which has tried to axe the energy supplement for two million Australians, including 400,000 age pensioners. This is the government which is trying to force Australians to work until they're 70—the oldest retirement age in the developed world. A single, quality framework is a worthwhile reform, but if Australians want quality aged care they need a government that respects older Australians and is willing to invest in quality aged care. They won't get that from those opposite, because those opposite are not focused on older Australians. They're not focused on supporting the work of our dedicated aged-care work force. The only jobs they're concerned about are their own. Their only focus right now is on their own internal squabbles and personal ambitions. We know the circus isn't over. We know that. If Australians want a government that truly cares about older people, they're not going to get it from the current government or from the current Prime Minister, who as Treasurer was the architect of many of their cruel cuts to aged care. If they want a government that cares about older Australians then they need to elect one, and that should be a Shorten Labor government.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BURSTON</name>
    <name.id>207807</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018. The recent debate on euthanasia in this place highlighted the need for an improved aged-care sector in this country. According to the last census, the median age in Australia in 2016 was 38, up from 37 in 2011. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, one in six Australians is now aged over 65, compared to one in seven in 2011 and only one in 25 in 1911. In addition, 2.1 per cent of Australians are over the age of 85. That's 84,000 extra residents aged 85-plus since the last census. There were 3½ thousand people aged over 100.</para>
<para>Everyone knows that our population is ageing, and we need lawmakers to ensure that those looking after our elderly and frail have the legislative framework to provide the best care possible. Anyone who has or has had a loved one in aged care, and any senator in this place who has had dealings with constituents about problems in the aged-care system, knows the system is broken. There isn't enough time to go through the aged-care scandals throughout New South Wales, but I will highlight just three that occurred less than an hour's drive away from my electoral office in Lake Macquarie.</para>
<para>In 2016 a woman was found with maggots in her mouth at a Raymond Terrace nursing home the day before she died. A Port Stephens woman, Jayne Carter, raised serious concerns about the standards of aged-care facilities after she was told by staff at the Opal Raymond Terrace Gardens nursing home that they had found maggots in her mother's mouth.</para>
<para>In 2013 <inline font-style="italic">Lateline</inline> reported on a 91-year-old grandmother, Paula Javurek, who was in a New South Wales nursing home that was supposed to deliver high-level care. Her daughter, who was a nurse and healthcare lecturer, was horrified when she found her mother with exposed, raw ear cartilage due to a lack of turning and with one of her arms immobilised after staff botched injections. Ms Javurek had survived Nazi concentration camps and was tortured and raped after being captured during the war. Her family told the nursing home only female staff should wash her because of residual trauma from war-time assaults, but the family has since counted 70 times when male carers washed Ms Javurek, who tried to fight them off. According to her daughter, her mother often used to say she would be better off being in a concentration camp than where she was. After finding their grandmother shivering from cold and suffering from undiagnosed pneumonia, Ms Javurek's family took her home. A week later she died.</para>
<para>In 2011, nurses were sacked from William Cape Gardens nursing home on the Central Coast in New South Wales for depriving a dying man of food and photographing residents genitals in a game called 'the genital Friday club'. The horrific treatment at William Cape includes claims that three nurses told an elderly woman with dementia that her husband was having an affair with her best friend while she was in care. A whistleblower told <inline font-style="italic">The</inline><inline font-style="italic">Sunday Telegraph</inline> that when food was withheld from an elderly man the nurse allegedly said, 'He was going to die anyway. This way it would make it easier.' Staff were forced to sign a confidentiality agreement over the scandal. The whistleblower said 'the genital Friday club' had been going on for some months and was known of by quite a few members of staff. A second staff member said at least one nurse took photographs of elderly residents' private parts on an iPhone and asked colleagues to guess who they belonged to.</para>
<para>These scandals must stop. Pressures in the aged-care sector are skewed towards cost cutting and profit. Too often this is at the expense of care. It seems that any good care is occurring in spite of the system, not because of it. We need an aged-care system where good care is provided because of the system and not in spite of it, and where care is the best that can be provided with the resources available.</para>
<para>A few years ago an independent volunteer consumer based advocacy group, Aged Care Crisis, was formed to provide a consumer voice for aged-care residents and their loved ones. According to Aged Care Crisis, one of the most significant factors in providing quality residential aged care is ensuring that there are sufficient skilled staff on hand to provide that care. Many people who contact Aged Care Crisis are shocked to learn that there are no mandated minimum staff-to-resident ratios in aged-care homes across Australia. The Aged Care Act 1997 has little to say about staffing. In fact, only two lines are allocated to this, the most vital aspect of care provision—that there must be an adequate number of appropriately trained staff.</para>
<para>As a direct consequence of this lack of required standards in staffing, managers who are under pressure to meet their profit targets do so by reducing staff, placing vulnerable residents at risk. Nurses and carers frequently report that they are not able to care for residents properly given the conditions and time constraints imposed upon them. It is clear that providers of aged care genuinely strive to operate with as few staff as possible. Incredibly, Aged Care Crisis also found that in some cases no staff were rostered on for considerable lengths of time.</para>
<para>We have mandated staffing levels in childcare centres, kindergartens, schools and hospitals. They too cater for people with different levels of need in different locations but still manage to set a safe minimum staff-to-client ratio. Aged Care Crisis further stated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">This lack of mandated minimum staff/resident ratios has seen the exodus of experienced nurses from aged-care homes, particularly private-for-profit homes.</para></quote>
<para>Those staff who remain find that they can no longer meet their responsibilities to residents in the available time and that resident care is compromised. Most settings which care for vulnerable individuals—for example, hospitals and childcare centres—operate within mandated staff-to-person ratios. It is intolerable that frail, older people do not have this protection.</para>
<para>It is my understanding that, if you are residing in a nursing home in New Jersey in the United States, the nursing home owners there are required by law to provide you with information on the number of staff involved in direct patient care and to publicly post information that details direct resident care staffing levels within their facilities. They're also required to report daily staffing levels via a web-based system through their department of health. The law also requires that the department makes this information available to the public on a quarterly basis. Being an informed consumer and armed with this and other publicly available information, family members and residents are better equipped to make informed decisions about the care of their loved ones. There are no such levels of transparency or accountability to allow anyone to do similar here in Australia.</para>
<para>In every hospital coronary care unit or intensive care unit in Australia, staff are required to be specially trained in that area and to ensure that high standards of care are maintained. The same principles should apply in aged care. More specially trained staff are urgently required within the sector. To be effective, this commitment to training must encompass continuing education and ongoing professional development.</para>
<para>I share the Aged Care Crisis's alarm with the continuing reduction in the numbers of registered nurses who work in aged-care homes. More and more homes now rely on having a registered nurse on call rather than on site. This is despite the fact that the level of care needed by residents is higher than ever before. The ongoing reduction in the numbers of registered nurses has had a significant impact on the quality of care being provided in aged-care homes. This is one reason why residents must be placed in hospital when they require treatment for even minor complaints, and that increases waiting times in hospitals. Age Care Crisis advises that they receive feedback from carers about the increased responsibilities which they are given and for which they may have no or insufficient training.</para>
<para>The government and this parliament need to address the crisis in aged care as a matter of urgency. I will support any bill or amendment that will improve our aged-care sector. However, if I believe it will put further pressure on our system, I will vote against it.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>18:13</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018. If there was one area of government policy which one would have thought required bipartisanship it is the care of aged Australians. I think this an aspect of the debate that is being neglected at the moment.</para>
<para>On this side of the chamber we are passionate about our aged-care sector. I have no doubt that on the other side there are people who care about this issue, but the evidence is that this government has presided over an aged-care crisis for five years, which includes not only a crisis in the residential system and the home care system but also a crisis in relation to the workforce. This government is doing nothing to address the crisis in our aged-care workforce. So we all need to be committed to improving the aged-care system. It is one thing to talk about standardising the quality framework across the various parts of aged care; that is important, but I would suggest that the average Australian is more concerned about whether the standards can actually be delivered for their loved ones out there in the sector.</para>
<para>We on this side of the chamber have a track record in relation to bipartisanship. In the previous Labor government there was a lot of consultation involved and there was a hand extended to the other side to get involved in policy formulation. I understand that our Living Longer, Living Better reforms were the result of attempts to bring bipartisanship to this sector. We delivered our $3.7 billion Living Longer, Living Better reforms in our last term in government. For the benefit of those listening to this speech, I just want to recap some of the aspects of that $3.7 billion program.</para>
<para>It included $955.4 million to help people stay at home through an integrated home support program; more home care packages with new levels of packages; greater choice and control through consumer directed care available across all new home care packages; fairer means testing arrangements for home care packages; $54.8 million to help carers access respite and other support; $660.3 million to deliver better residential aged care through more residential care facilities to be built; supporting the viability of services in regional, rural and remote areas; trialling consumer directed care in residential aged care; strengthening means testing for residential care by combining the current income and asset tests; establishing a new Aged Care Financing Authority and improving the Aged Care Funding Instrument; $1.2 billion to strengthen the aged-care workforce; $39.8 million to support consumers and research through empowering consumers through advocacy; better connecting the lonely and socially isolated; improving the knowledge of older peoples' care and support needs; and $80.2 million to ensure better health connections through complex healthcare multidisciplinary care service innovation. So it was a comprehensive package.</para>
<para>We invite those opposite to steal our policies from time to time. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen often enough. But we do have a proud record of investing in aged care, in our seniors and in age pensioners. But that is no surprise to anybody who has an interest in support for communities: people would know it was Labor that legislated for industry superannuation, it was Labor that legislated for the Medicare safety net and it was Labor that began the National Disability Insurance Scheme. I want to take a brief moment here to pay tribute to the phenomenal work that the Hon. Jenny Macklin did in conceiving the scheme along with our federal Labor leader, Mr Shorten.</para>
<para>Labour supports measures intended to make later life better for Australians. They have earned it. That is why we are supporting this bill, which amends existing acts to provide for a single set of Aged Care Quality Standards to apply across aged-care providers and the Aged Care Act and varies the functions of the CEO of the Aged Care Quality Agency to reference the new standards. The new standards will come into effect from 1 July next year and will cover three different areas: residential aged care, home care and the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program quality review.</para>
<para>However, I do want to point out some of the concerns that we have in this area. The government has dragged its feet on these reforms, as it has in so many other important reforms—payday lending, banking accountability and superannuation just to name a few. It is Labor who has had to drag this government kicking and screaming to these reforms. These particular reforms that we're considering today have been talked about since 2015. But it is only now in 2018, three years later, that the government is bringing them to the parliament. Perhaps if this chaotic government spent less time on shuffling the deck chairs and infighting, Australians—particularly older Australians in need of care—would get the attention and respect they deserved. Labor also has concerns about the extension of the Freedom of Information Act 1982 to exempt some documents from disclosure. With scant details on what these exemptions would be, Labor has ongoing concerns about the transparency and truthfulness of this government. I will touch on that a bit later on.</para>
<para>As I've indicated, we have an aged-care system in crisis. There are significant challenges ahead of us in this industry. We have 2.49 million people, or over 10 per cent of Australia's population, who are aged 70 or over as at the 2016 census date. By around the year 2050, I think that proportion is set to double. Around 20 per cent of the population will be aged 70 or over. As at 30 June this year, over 200,000 people were living in residential aged-care facilities. We know that this is a sector that requires a lot of government support; $17.4 billion was spent by governments on aged care in 2016-17 and 69 per cent of that was for residential aged care. We know that women outnumber men in aged-care services two to one. That is because women live longer and have higher care needs. On average, people spend 2½ years in permanent residential care, just over 1½ years in home care and one month in respite care. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people account for less than one per cent of all people in permanent residential care and four per cent of people in home care. These statistics just illustrate the size of the issue that we are dealing with.</para>
<para>In delivering our landmark aged-care reforms, the Living Longer Living Better package, Labor acknowledged a number of challenges in the aged-care sector. These included the matter of choice. We recognised that older Australians often preferred to age at home. We provided more support to enable them to make that choice. We recognised inequities in the cost of residential aged care and took steps to ensure more protection for the most vulnerable. We recognised that volunteer carers, a critical part of our aged-care system, needed more support. We strengthened links between aged care and the wider health system, particularly with a view to improving support for the increasing number of Australians diagnosed with dementia and Australians requiring palliative care.</para>
<para>A key feature of our reform was to recognise and take steps to address the workforce pressures in the aged-care system—namely, the need to attract and retain trained, qualified staff in the sector. I think we need approximately three times the number of people we currently have working in our aged-care section. To this end, Labor committed $1.2 billion over five years for an aged-care workforce productivity strategy, including a workforce compact to improve wages across the sector. Those opposite will recall that in 2013, almost immediately upon attaining government, this was one of the very first measures that the Abbott government sought to scrap. I will be coming back to this later when I talk about the dismal record of those opposite when it comes to appropriate wages for the workers in our country who look after our most vulnerable people.</para>
<para>Continuing with the challenges that we have in this sector, the issue of dementia is first and foremost. Most people nowadays have a family member or know of a friend, a work colleague or an acquaintance with experience of dementia, whether it's age related or the tragedy of younger onset dementia. I want to echo the words of Mr Shorten, who said in November last year that 'tackling dementia will be a defining health and aged-care challenge of the next generation' and that it is 'our generation's duty' to get started on it. In what was a seminal speech, Mr Shorten identified that this is a matter which has touched him quite deeply, and I think he has a genuine concern about this particular issue. He pointed out in a recent speech that a NATSEM report has estimated that dementia costs Australia over $14 billion a year. The same report found that even a five per cent reduction in the number of people with dementia over the age of 65 could lead to savings of $120.4 billion in less than the next 40 years. However, if we hold to our present course, more than 500,000 Australians will have dementia by 2025 and more than a million of us by 2050.</para>
<para>One in three Australians born today will eventually be diagnosed with dementia. Already this year, for the first time, dementia is now the leading cause of death for Australian women. Within the next five years, it will be the leading cause of death for all Australians. This means that we need better standards and training for residential facilities and for in-home care, and we support the elements of this bill that address that. It's estimated that 70 per cent of people in residential aged care have dementia, so everything we do in aged-care policy has to link up with dementia policies. Senator Burston touched on some of the reports of elder abuse or substandard aged care that have occurred and that we hear about all too often in the media. Unfortunately, it's possible that they're the tip of the iceberg. This goes to the issue that we do have a crisis in this sector. Mr Shorten noted that addressing this issue is within our grasp. We do have the resources and the capacity to deal with it. We just need to be better at utilising those resources.</para>
<para>I don't need to tell you this, Mr Acting Deputy President Williams, that the challenges of dementia care are amplified in rural and regional Australia. In February this year I instituted, in this place, a Senate Economics References Committee inquiry into regional inequality. The terms of that inquiry are deliberately broad to allow us to examine a whole range of drivers, including health and aged care. Last month, on 29 August, the committee held its first public hearing in Emerald in Central Queensland. I want to take a moment to make reference to a submission that we received from Mrs Gai Sypher to the inquiry. The focus of her submission—and she appeared before us as a witness—was the unsustainability of the aged-care industry in regional and remote regions based on the current business-driven model.</para>
<para>Mrs Sypher is most familiar with the Central and central-west Queensland examples. In her submission she stated that an examination of the data shows that access to residential aged care in remote and very remote communities is extremely limited and that private providers are not found in locations that operate on marginally sustainable business models, such as those you find in remote or very remote communities, so consumer choice is constrained and there is more of a need for legislative requirements and regulation to guarantee access to residential and community based aged care at an acceptable level. Mrs Sypher told us that aged provision in rural and remote areas may be limited to one or two providers who have less need to compete for custom through marketing or self-promotion than their metropolitan counterparts.</para>
<para>Mrs Sypher's recommendation is that it will be important for service providers to collaborate and innovatively develop models of care that will work in rural and in remote areas. She's advocated on behalf of aged people to the federal government to consider all these sorts of things. I wish there was some evidence that the government is taking on board some of these ideas.</para>
<para>Sitting suspended from 18:30 to 19:30</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator KETTER</name>
    <name.id>244247</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I was speaking about some of the regional challenges associated with our aged-care sector and, in particular, the workforce for the aged-care sector. But, with every challenge, there is an opportunity for regional Australia, and I think that it's important to note that TAFE—which has, for so long, been neglected—provides that opportunity for filling the gap, for training for our aged-care workforce.</para>
<para>Labor is committed to revitalising this long-neglected sector. I've seen this firsthand on my recent visits to regional Queensland, to the Roma campus of TAFE. They have outstanding nursing training facilities there. Unfortunately, they're not being utilised to the extent that we would like them to be, but they are outstanding facilities and I'm sure that they will find students for that campus. I also saw the Townsville campus of TAFE last week. They also have very good facilities. I'd like to commend the Queensland government for injecting $26 million for a new building which is being constructed there at the present time. A couple of weeks ago I visited the Mount Isa campus of TAFE, where they provide courses in relation to health and aged care. It's so important that this training be delivered in regional Australia so that we can have opportunities for regional Australians to age in their locality.</para>
<para>But, in order for us to realise the opportunities that exist with these challenges, we do need a federal Labor government. Even before the chaos of this Liberal-National government claiming another Prime Minister and paralysing positive reforms, those opposite had already started to wreck Labor's aged-care reforms, ripping $2 billion out of aged care and cutting the $1.2 billion Workforce Compact fund.</para>
<para>Unfortunately, the new Prime Minister has not acquitted himself well in this space. In fact, I would argue that he's failed his first test because he has not included aged care in his new cabinet. So this does not give us a great deal of confidence that this issue of aged care and the crisis which is confronting the sector are going to be addressed by this government. In one of his first acts as Treasurer, Mr Morrison slashed almost $500 million from aged-care funding in the 2015 MYEFO. As other speakers have said, we have 108,000 Australians on the waiting list for home care packages, and the latest budget did not deliver one new dollar of funding for aged care. What's most concerning to me—and I think Australians would be concerned—is that, of the 108,000 Australians waiting for home care packages, 88,000 older Australians are waiting with high needs, many with dementia. That is a crisis in anyone's language.</para>
<para>Labor believes in a helping hand for those who need it most. We follow through with our values by investing in affordable health care, education and fair pay for fair work, especially for those workers caring for our most vulnerable Australians. Now more than ever we need a Labor government to restore the balance of fairness in Australia.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:34</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>This is going to sound like a broken record, but the whole issue of the way we treat older Australians has sounded like a broken record for years, even decades. I preached the mantra on radio and television for years that the only difference between uncaring politicians and old people is that they, the old people, got there first. At a nurses' rally in Bill Shorten's electorate, recently, I made that point again. But I also pointed out that, since I jumped the shark and was elected to Canberra, I'm now not only a politician; I'm also old.</para>
<para>In recent weeks, while parliament was in recess, I spent a lot of my time in rural and regional Victoria—Ballarat, Ararat, Horsham, Echuca, Shepparton and Colac. I even swung by a place where I spent some time in 2014, called Langi Kal Kal Prison. I met a lot of disillusioned Liberal voters, upset with what even the new Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, has described as a muppet show. I made a point of visiting aged-care centres and nursing homes. I almost committed the ultimate political sin of delaying the start of the bingo game in Horsham! As I pointed out, I'm old enough to remember when the game of bingo was called housie-housie. At the Ararat Hotel I met six former registered nurses celebrating with a get-together. They all agreed with me when I started talking about ratios for RNs and carers in nursing homes and aged-care centres. Some of them are fantastic, but many of them, sadly, are not.</para>
<para>I mentioned Langi Kal Kal Prison. Now, something's really out of whack in the way we treat our elderly when the average spend per day on food for residents in aged-care centres is $6.08. I pointed out earlier my extensive jail experiences, and that is less than I received daily as a prisoner. At Langi Kal Kal I received nearly $10 a day for food, and we received all the free milk we could drink—litres and litres of fresh milk daily. One other prisoner in my block, of Middle Eastern extraction, would turn about nine litres of milk into yoghurt and cottage cheese to share with us.</para>
<para>But back to the main issue of staff ratios for nursing homes and aged-care centres: I will be moving an amendment to this bill, on sheet 8448, which would introduce the concept of a minimum staffing standard for Australian government funded aged-care residential facilities. The amendment would require that the task of calculating a safe and specific ratio, including variables such as day and night shifts, higher- and lower-care residents, and metropolitan and rural and regional areas, would be undertaken by the Department of Health in consultation with the aged-care sector and included in the quality-of-care principles. The concept of a mandated ratio of skilled staff to care recipients in Australia's aged-care residential facilities is at the centre of the Australian Nurses and Midwifery Federation's Time to Act for Ruby campaign. It also has the public support of MPs and senators from the ALP and the Greens and some crossbenchers. Going public so far are: me, Senator Richard Di Natale and some members from the other place—Chris Bowen, Terri Butler, Milton Dick, Mike Kelly, Justine Elliot, Cathy O'Toole, Susan Lamb, Julie Owens, Susan Templeman and Graham Perrett.</para>
<para>The ABC reported today that a change.org petition with close to 230,000 signatures will be delivered to aged-care minister Ken Wyatt on 14 September calling on him to mandate staff-to-resident ratios for all aged-care facilities across Australia. That's the way it should be. The real experts—the passionate and compassionate experts called RNs—demand better staff-to-resident ratios. I mentioned earlier how an RN in her 40s came up to me recently, in Shepparton, in tears. She told me she'd just quit her job because she'd get home at night and would start to cry because she knew she had not done a great job as a nurse that day: she had neglected patients because she just didn't have the time to properly do her job. That is shameful in Australia in 2018. Things must improve, and only we can force this to happen. I'm old enough to remember the kerosene bath scandal in Melbourne some decades ago. Sadly, while we're not back there, some of the practices in understaffed facilities across this country are Dickensian.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:39</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator PATERSON</name>
    <name.id>144138</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to make a brief contribution to this debate on the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018—comforted in the new knowledge I have that Senator Hinch's calcium needs have been well taken care of in recent years! And I contribute to this debate both as a government senator and as the husband of someone who works in the aged-care industry and is very passionate about quality in the aged-care industry. For the record, I don't support and I don't think it is wise to have staff ratios imposed on the aged-care industry. It's an incredibly blunt instrument that will drive up costs and stifle innovation in the sector, and is not the most direct and delivered way to improve quality.</para>
<para>The bill contributes to the implementation of the government's 2015-16 budget decision to work with the sector to develop a new, unified quality framework including a single set of consumer focused quality standards which will apply across all aged-care programs. The bill makes provision for a single set of aged-care standards, to be called the Aged Care Quality Standards, to apply to the providers of Australian government funded aged care. The single quality framework places consumers at the centre of their care and focuses on giving people greater choice and flexibility. It is part of the reforms being progressively implemented in aged care to create a competitive market based system where consumers drive quality and red tape is reduced for providers of aged care.</para>
<para>With these amendments, provision will be made for the same set of quality standards to apply across all types of aged-care services for the first time. The introduction of new standards will reflect contemporary evidence and community expectations of the quality of care and services, with accreditation standards being updated for the first time in 20 years. The standards were co-designed with the aged care sector, including a technical advisory group made up of consumer groups, service providers, academics and experts in the development of aged care or health standards. The Department of Health has also consulted widely with individuals and organisations with an interest in aged care, including in urban, regional, rural and remote areas. The Aged Care Quality Standards are an important part of the broader aged-care regulatory framework. They promote consumer confidence that Australian government funded aged-care services are safe and of consistent quality by setting out our core expectations that apply across all services. This bill is an important part of the government's reforms to promote quality aged-care services that focus on outcomes for consumers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:42</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STORER</name>
    <name.id>275424</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I support the intent of the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018 but the question is: will it produce the results claimed for it? Whether enough money has been provided in the budget to provide the quality and variety of care that people and their families deserve is questionable. The last budget allocated $5 billion to aged care but, since 2013-14, the sector has been subject to cuts totalling $3 billion, and 100,000 people remain on waiting lists for aged care. That said, public funding of essential services such as aged care should be provided with appropriate quality-control conditions. This legislation is a step in the right direction.</para>
<para>The streamlining of standards across all areas of care, and the increased focus of personalising care to the needs of individuals, is a positive step. However, in my review process, I have noted that major aged-care groups have a range of concerns about whether it will actually deliver better results. For example, National Seniors has raised the concern that funding models should take staff training and composition into account in order to deliver quality aged-care services. They say the quality of care is a function of the quantity of staff available and the mix of skills. Another noted concern is that the needs of care recipients are changing. One in two people who enter residential care has some form of dementia, and people are typically frailer and have more health issues. Increased focus should be given to adequately training our aged-care workforce to adapt to those changing circumstances.</para>
<para>It seems to me that those concerns are partly answered in the amendment put forward by Senator Hinch, which provides for a review process into the idea of a ratio between staff and care recipients. This amendment seems to meet the noted concern about ratios being a blunt instrument by providing for variables on day and night shifts, higher and lower care residents, and differences between metropolitan, rural and regional areas and so on. For those reasons, I encourage the Senate to support the Hinch Justice Party amendment. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:44</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I too rise to speak on the Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018. Before I go into the specifics of the bill, I'd like to first of all congratulate all senators in this place for your support for this important bill and for the bipartisanship, if not multipartisanship, you have all shown. I think it does demonstrate, particularly with the issues that we've had in the last couple of weeks, that as a parliament we can still come together and debate robustly but also very constructively. Nothing is more important than doing so on this particular bill. I would like to congratulate my friend and my colleague—the minister, Ken Wyatt—for his tireless commitment to supporting the most vulnerable in our community. The introduction of this bill is another important step in strengthening the cop on the beat for our most vulnerable in aged care.</para>
<para>That said, I was a little saddened to hear those opposite saying in one sense how bipartisan it was but also continuing to peddle some untruths about the situation of the Morrison government and, in fact, the coalition government over the last five years. I'd like to specifically rebut some of the more blatant things that were incorrect that were said. Just because you said it several times in the debate this evening does not make it true. I'd like to put on record the facts. The fact is that every year under us home-care packages have gone up, residential care places are up and every year aged-care funding has actually increased—despite what those opposite keep asserting. Today, more than 1.3 million senior Australians are accessing some form of support in the Commonwealth aged-care sector.</para>
<para>There haven't been cuts, as we have heard from those opposite tonight. In fact, under the coalition government, since elected, aged-care spending has increased on average by 6.1 per cent each and every year we've been in government. I will say that again, because those opposite keep talking about funding cuts. The fact is that aged-care spending has increased by 6.1 per cent every single year of our government. This year alone, the Morrison government is providing record aged-care funding of $19.8 billion, which is $5.5 billion more than what Labor provided in their last year of government. It equates to an additional 14,000 high-level home-care packages over four years at a cost of $1.6 billion, which is on top of the 6,000 high-level packages already released this year.</para>
<para>I'll now come to the bill itself and what this bill is actually about. The Aged Care (Single Quality Framework) Reform Bill 2018 contributes to the implementation of the Australian government's 2015-16 budget decision to work with the sector to develop a new, unified quality framework that includes a single set of consumer focused quality standards that will apply across all aged-care programs. This bill also lays the foundation for the introduction of a single set of aged-care standards, to be called the Aged Care Quality Standards, to apply to providers of Commonwealth funded aged care. The single quality framework places consumers at the centre of their care and focuses on giving people greater choice and greater flexibility. It is part of the reforms being progressively implemented in aged care to create a competitive, market based system where consumers drive quality and where red tape is reduced for providers of aged care. By providing for a single set of standards that apply across all aged-care programs, the amendments are intended to, once implemented: drive improvements to the quality of care delivered to all older Australians; decrease the regulatory burden on aged-care providers; and encourage innovation, excellence and continuous improvement, which are so important in all sectors today.</para>
<para>Currently there are four sets of quality standards that apply to providers of aged-care services. The first one is accreditation standards, which apply to residential aged-care services and some form of flexible care. The second is home-care standards, which apply to home-care services, Commonwealth home-support program services and some form of flexible care. The third is transitional care standards, which apply to providers of transitional care. The fourth is the National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program quality framework, which applies to providers under that program. With these amendments, provision will be made for the same set of quality standards to apply across all types of aged-care services for the very first time. The introduction of new standards will also reflect contemporary evidence and community expectations of the quality, care and services, with the accreditation standards being updated for the first time in 20 years.</para>
<para>The Aged Care Quality Standards will also be enacted through amendments to the Quality of Care Principles 2014, issued by the minister for aged care under the Aged Care Act 1997, which is consistent with the manner in which the current accreditation standards and home care standards are issued. Principles are subject to parliamentary scrutiny and also to disallowance, meaning that the final content of the Aged Care Quality Standards will be able to be transparently reviewed by the parliament. Additionally, a single set of standards will increase consistency across aged-care services, and it will also make it easier for consumers and their families, carers and any other representatives to make choices about care and services, including as care needs change. Not only will the standards focus on quality and safety for consumers, they will also encourage providers to offer care and services that promote quality of life and wellbeing by placing greater emphasis on consumer choice and identity and by partnering with consumers in their care.</para>
<para>The Aged Care Quality Standards will be made under the reforms to this bill. They have been developed through significant consultation as well as through co-design with the aged-care sector. The Department of Health has undertaken research and consultation with the public, the aged-care sector and other government organisations. A standards technical advisory group was also established by the department. The Australian Aged Care Quality Agency is developing guidance and also educational material to support assessment of the standards and has conducted field testing of the draft set of standards. Additionally, in October 2017, the government released the <inline font-style="italic">Review of national aged care quality regulatory processes</inline>, which included recommendations regarding the content of aged-care quality standards. These recommendations are being addressed through the new Aged Care Quality Standards.</para>
<para>This bill also makes amendments to the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency Act 2013 to provide the chief executive officer of the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency with the power to accredit residential aged-care services and also to conduct quality reviews of home-care services in accordance with the requirements of the new Aged Care Quality Standards. The chief executive officer of the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency will also have the power to assess the quality of flexible care services, Commonwealth Home Support Program services and National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Flexible Aged Care Program services through a specification instrument to be made by the minister for aged care.</para>
<para>The bill also makes amendments to the Freedom of Information Act 1982 so that protected information is exempt from the provisions of that act. Protected information is information collected by the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency in the course of its functions that is either personal information or information that relates to the affairs of the approved provider. The Australian Aged Care Quality Agency Act 2013 already contains criminal penalty provisions for the unauthorised disclosure of protected information.</para>
<para>The Aged Care Quality Standards are an important part of the broader aged-care regulatory framework. They promote consumer confidence that Australian government funded aged-care services are safe and of a consistent quality by setting out core expectations that apply across all services. This bill is an important part of the government's reforms to promote quality aged-care services that focus on outcomes for consumers. Again, I thank all in this chamber for their support and engagement on this bill, and I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>96</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:54</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I did indicate in my second reading contribution that I had a couple of questions around the transition funding—the $50 million for residential services to help them transition to the new standards. I indicated that I'd like a bit more information about how that's rolling out and why it's only for residential services. Perhaps we could deal with that issue first and then move to the amendments.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm really happy to be guided by the Senate. Minister?</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Siewert, I'd be happy to answer those questions and get some more information for you. Perhaps we could go to Senator Hinch first and I'll come back with the answers to those questions.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: That's great; we have a nod. Thank you, Minister. Senator Hinch?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:55</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>My apologies for not being here. By leave—I move amendments (1), (2) and (3) on sheet 8448 together:</para>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 1), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[consequential—commencement]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) Schedule 1, item 10, page 4 (line 19), omit "Act", substitute "Schedule".</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">[consequential—transitional rules]</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) Page 4 (after line 28), at the end of the Bill, add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Schedule 2—Further amendments</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">Aged Care Act 1997</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">1 Paragraph 54 ‑1(1 ) ( b)</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Repeal the paragraph, substitute:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) to maintain an adequate and safe ratio of appropriately skilled staff to care recipients, to ensure that the care needs of care recipients are met;</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">2 At the end of section 54 ‑1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(3) For the purposes of paragraph (1) (b), the ratio of appropriately skilled staff to care recipients is an <inline font-style="italic">adequate and safe ratio</inline> if, for aged care provided by an approved provider at a particular time, the ratio of appropriately skilled staff to care recipients is equal to or greater than the minimum ratio required to be provided by the Quality of Care Principles for:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the number of care recipients receiving care through the aged care service at that time; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the type of care and level of care provided.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">3 At the end of Division 54 of Part 4.1</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Add:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">54 ‑6 Staff to Care Recipient Ratio Standards</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) The Quality of Care Principles must set out Staff to Care Recipient Ratio Standards. Staff to Care Recipient Ratio Standards are standards for quality of care and quality of life for the provision of aged care.</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(2) The Staff to Care Recipient Ratio Standards mustset out the minimum ratio of appropriately skilled staff to care recipients required to provide care at an aged care service at a particular time taking into account:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(a) the number of recipients receiving care at that time; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(b) the type of care provided; and</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(c) the level of care provided.</para></quote>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: The question is that the three amendments on sheet 8448 be agreed to. Those of that opinion say aye; against, no. The noes have it.</para>
<para class="italic">Senator Hinch interjecting—</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: I didn't hear a second voice, I'm sorry. I'm happy to put it again if we need to. Sorry, Senator Polley, did you wish to make a contribution?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Polley</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: Okay. Then I'll come back to you, Senator Hinch, and recommit it.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:56</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to make some comments in relation to the amendments put forward by Senator Hinch. The intent of this legislation is to make provisions for a single set of aged-care quality standards. This is not an appropriate bill to deal with these issues. We will not be supporting these amendments. With regard to staffing arrangements in residential aged-care facilities, the roles of nurses and personal care workers in the care of older Australians is critical and will only become increasingly important. Labor also understands the importance that other health professionals, such as GPs, occupational therapists, physiotherapists and dietitians have on the overall wellbeing of older Australians.</para>
<para>The number of people aged 85 is rapidly increasing compared with younger age groups and is projected to double by 2032. We will need to see a tripling of the aged-care workforce in the next 30 years to provide a high standard of living and care for this growing proportion of older Australians. Given the government dumped Labor's $1.5 billion workforce compact and the supplement after the 2013 election, we have consistently called for the development of a comprehensive aged-care workforce development strategy to address issues of training, staffing levels and an ageing workforce.</para>
<para>The government's finally addressed workforce issues by announcing $1.9 billion for the Aged Care Workforce Strategy Taskforce in the 2017-18 budget. However, when the government made its task force membership public six months later, it failed to include any representatives of the aged-care workforce. This task force report has been with the government for nearly three months. We urge the government to give its full attention to this report and respond now with some urgency. Labor also takes this opportunity to thank the chair of the task force, John Pollaers, for his important work.</para>
<para>We believe that the government must work with unions and aged-care providers to implement this strategy to meet growing demands. This strategy must consider things such as the proposal for 24-hour registered nurse coverage in residential aged-care facilities. Labor also successfully pushed for the reconstitution of the Senate inquiry into the future of Australia's aged-care workforce. The Senate Standing Committees on Community Affairs report tabled in parliament in June this year was adopted unanimously by all political parties and made a series of recommendations in relation to workforce development. The Senate report also provided valuable analysis of the issues confronting the aged-care workforce.</para>
<para>Whether it is aged-care providers, workers or consumers the message has to be consistent. The government must take action to ensure we have an adequately skilled and equipped aged-care workforce to care for our rapidly ageing population.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>19:59</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I indicate the Greens will be supporting these amendments. They're not very prescriptive. They also don't adopt some of the more intense set ratios. We have indicated that we do think, broadly, ratios need to be a part of the process because of the problems that we've seen, but we don't want them to be too prescriptive. We want a process for being able to establish them, depending on the situation and the acuity of residents, the types of residents we're talking about, the ratio of allied nurses to people with professional qualifications and, of course, care workers, who provide so much of the care that's essential when you think about the fact that this is a person's home. It is not a hospital; it is a person's home. And care workers—who will, in fact, be visiting this place again on Wednesday—play an absolutely essential role in the provision of care. I'm so sick of hearing from both nurses and care workers that there are just not enough staff on the floor to provide the medical attention that's needed but also the personal care.</para>
<para>I've also seen some very excellent examples of residential aged-care facilities where they have excellent staff-resident ratios and the care provided is excellent. So we support the concept of ratios, but we're not endorsing any particular ratio at this stage. We also recognise that you have to be careful that it's not too prescriptive because circumstances are different in many of the residences. As I said, we're talking about a person's home. We're also talking about their care, and we need to make sure that we've got that balance right. So we will be supporting these amendments to register our support for the concept of ratios, bearing in mind that we don't think that they should be too prescriptive and restrict the ability to make sure we have that balance of care and staff present in the home right.</para>
<para>I chaired the workforce inquiry, as Senator Polley just articulated. I'm deeply disappointed that we haven't seen an outcome from the task force to date. I think that we were pretty clear in that report that it's absolutely essential that we get on top of that workforce issue because we have an ageing population. We have people going into residential care who are older and frailer. They're staying in homes longer, which is really strongly supported by the community. So it is really important that we get these workforce issues dealt with now.</para>
<para>Having been involved in the discussions over Living Longer Living Better, I was similarly disappointed when the previous workforce arrangements were abolished by the incoming government. There were some amendments made and some concessions made when that was being negotiated at the time. I think that we've unfortunately stagnated, despite having the task force. I acknowledge that action was taken to get that task force in place, but basically progress on a lot of the workforce issues has stalled and it is absolutely essential that we have a skilled workforce of personal care providers, allied health professionals, RNs and ENs on the floor of these places. But it is also absolutely essential that we have a plan in place. Otherwise, we will not be able to provide the care that is needed for our ageing population because we just won't have the workforce ready.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:04</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I have some concerns with the proposed amendment, but before I deal with those can I just take a couple of seconds to congratulate the minister, Mr Wyatt, on doing what I think is a magnificent job in the aged-care area. I've seen a lot of aged-care ministers over my time here—some of them have been very good and some of them ordinary. But Mr Ken Wyatt has really demonstrated an understanding of aged care and, particularly, of the facilities that look after the elderly in our society. I'm delighted to say that Mr Wyatt particularly understands the need for aged care and the problems associated with looking after the aged in rural and regional Australia.</para>
<para>The amendment that we're dealing with may well be appropriate in the capital cities. I'm not quite sure that it's appropriate in a small community. Just last week, the Lower Burdekin Home for the Aged Society called to see me. That operates in the town where I live, Ayr, in North Queensland, about 100 kays south of Townsville. It has facilities both in Ayr and in the twin town, Home Hill, across the Burdekin River.</para>
<para>I know the facility quite well. More than 40 years ago I was a member of the Apex services club when we were invited to a meeting to set up a community aged-care facility in the Lower Burdekin—that's Ayr and Home Hill. My club sent someone along. I was president of the club at the time and I still remember promising the person we sent: 'Can you go along to this meeting? It's only one meeting. It won't take you very long. You can go along and hear what's being proposed.' It turned out that he then became the chairman of the society for about 20 years and did a wonderful job there.</para>
<para>But this was a community aged-care facility built, at the time, as I recall—and this was confirmed to me just last week—entirely by donations from the community. There was no government assistance back in those days. Obviously, the daily payments of the inmates—the patients; the people cared for—make a contribution, and the government contributes to them. But after almost 40 years of operating on the basis of community support, the home is now finding that it's having some difficulty in continuing to operate. They're applying for a capital grant. It's the first time, I might say, they've ever done this in the 40 years that they've been operating.</para>
<para>Their issue is that the home is now 40, 30 or 20 years old, as they built extensions. A lot of the accommodation was appropriate 40 years ago, but is not quite so acceptable today. Of course, with the changes that we've seen in aged care over time, nowadays, those who used to be low-care patients are now being encouraged to stay in their own homes. The government is providing very considerable support to people who want to live in their own homes. They really can't look after themselves in their own homes, but they're getting support coming in. I've had experience of this; my brother-in-law is now a recipient of that. I know the aged persons homes in my home community; my mother was there 20 or 30 years ago. My mother-in-law was there and my sister was there relatively recently. I've seen what happens.</para>
<para>Why I'm concerned about the amendment is that what might work in a unionised workforce in Melbourne, Sydney or Canberra may not work in country areas. I think that the Lower Burdekin Home for the Aged is the second-biggest employer in my community. It's a country town—I say it's a small country town, but by Australian standards it's a country town of about 10,000 or 12,000 people. The district is about 20,000, so it's a big small country town—and it's one of the big employers there. A relative of my wife actually works there. She provides care and does that not as a professional but as one who helps in the various things that need to be done.</para>
<para>The important issue, particularly for community-run facilities, is that they are able to balance the books and make things pay and it sometimes means that the staff have to be multiskilled. They have to be prepared to enhance the productivity to make sure that the home keeps operating, because if the home is experiencing some difficulties it means that for the first time in 40 years it might have to be taken over by one of the corporate aged-care places, who, appropriately, I guess, run these things for profit—otherwise, often, why would they be involved? But this is a community that is local; it's done by local money and local people. It's part of the community. I'm concerned about ratios and particular prescriptions of staffing ratios, because whilst they may be appropriate in one area they may not be in another area. I think Senator Siewert was alluding to the same thing in her, might I say, mild support for the amendments.</para>
<para>I don't want to delay the Senate too long except to say that there are a number of these community run aged-care facilities in the north of Queensland, where I basically operate. I give a shout out to the Bowen aged care operations, situated around the community of Bowen, which is an hour south of Ayr—where I live—which is two hours south of Townsville. They have a wonderful reputation. They've done enormously significant work for their local community. They've operated the books very well. I'm hopeful that the government will be able to support them in some of the very significant capital works they're undertaking.</para>
<para>I mentioned also the Warrina Innisfail aged-care facility, a bit north of Townsville, who've done a wonderful job. They were the recipients of some significant Commonwealth grant money in the last round. They are able to put in place a whole new facility that will be very significant in the community of Innisfail. It's about the same sort of size and atmospherics as the community I live in. It's a sugar town. It's in north Queensland, about four hours north of Townsville. There are about 20,000 people in the surrounding areas. They do a wonderful job. It enables long-term residents of those areas—in Innisfail, Ingham, Ayr, Home Hill, Bowen and every community facility—who in the past might have had to leave the place they've lived all their lives and go to one of the capital cities to get good aged care, to stay in these towns that I've mentioned.</para>
<para>The significant thing about all the towns I've mentioned is that they're community-run facilities. I don't know, but my guess would be that the union has very little influence there, which means that people are paid well but they work harder. They work that extra mile where it needs to be done. That's what a community facility is about. I'd hate to see this approach in these smaller country towns—and I mentioned some towns in North Queensland that I'm aware of but I'm sure a similar situation applies in many, many parts of Australia—so we have to take this into account. I'm delighted that Mr Wyatt understands the importance of aged care in remote communities.</para>
<para>I go even remoter than the towns I've mentioned, to talk about Hughenden and Richmond—west of Townsville—which are much smaller towns, but even there the local councils are doing their own bit for aged care and getting assistance from the Commonwealth government. I look forward to having Mr Wyatt come north again, as he indicated he would do, when he was up in the north about six or eight months ago. He does a wonderful job. He is caring. He understands the issue. Whilst, of course, he doesn't have a bottomless pocket of money, he does understand that all parts of Australia need to be looked after, and I'm delighted that he does that wonderful job.</para>
<para>On the amendments before the chair, I have my concerns, for the reasons I have mentioned, so I probably won't be supporting them at this time.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:15</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Temporary Chair Bernardi, just before you changed over with your predecessor as chair, Senator Sterle, he indicated that he would submit the vote again, and I request that you do that. Could you check with the Clerk?</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>I'll just take some advice. Senator Hinch, I understand there was some confusion. I'm not confused. I understand exactly what's going on. The amendments, by leave, are being moved together, and they will be put to the chamber at the conclusion of this debate, which will be in just a moment—unless you are seeking the call again?</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator HINCH</name>
    <name.id>2O4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Sorry—your predecessor had actually called the vote and there was some confusion about whether there were enough ayes to force a division or not. That was all it was about.</para>
<para>The TEMPORARY CHAIR: It's okay, Senator Hinch; it's underway. The committee is considering amendments (1), (2) and (3) on sheet 8448 together. Minister?</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:16</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The government does not support the amendments to this bill as proposed by Senator Hinch. I would say, personally—and, I know, on behalf of all on my side—Senator Hinch, we have no doubt about your compassion and your support for the most vulnerable in our society. But, for the reasons I will go through, we again take a similar position to Labor and do not support these amendments because we believe that, while they are well intended, they do have unintended consequences. I would remind those in this chamber of the Oakden situation in Adelaide, where in fact they had the highest ratios of staffing—higher, I think, than just about any other aged-care facility in this country—and we are still all very much aware of what happened in that facility, despite the high staffing numbers.</para>
<para>The government also doesn't support the amendments to this bill because all Commonwealth-subsidised aged-care homes are required to have adequate numbers of appropriately skilled staff to meet individual care recipients' needs. There is, however, no Commonwealth legislation that prescribes minimum numbers of staff on duty at any given time. This is because there is actually no single optimum number of staff or combination of staff qualifications that will result in quality aged care in all circumstances, as I think Senator Macdonald has just so eloquently described with regard to regional Australia. Rather, the number of staff required to look after care recipients will change according to the varying needs of the individuals under their care, the facilities' size and design and the way work is organised, including the extent to which services are outsourced. It is the responsibility of individual aged-care homes to use government subsidies to ensure they have the staffing mix and numbers they require for their care recipients to receive the highest quality care required.</para>
<para>In addition, opinions presented at the Senate Community Affairs References Committee inquiry in 2016 into the future of Australia's aged-care workforce were mixed regarding the merits of staff ratios. A number of submitters were not supportive of mandating staffing ratios, mostly because they considered it would not resolve issues and would impose an unnecessary regulatory burden and, of course, cost, which inevitably would be passed on to the residents or their families. So, for all of these reasons, the government does not support these amendments.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The TEMPORARY CHAIR</name>
    <name.id>G0D</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the amendments moved by Senator Hinch be agreed to.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
<division>
            <division.header>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionPreamble">The committee divided. [20:23]<br />(The Temporary Chair—Senator Bernardi)</p>
              </body>
            </division.header>
            <division.data>
              <ayes>
                <num.votes>13</num.votes>
                <title>AYES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Di Natale, R</name>
                  <name>Faruqi, M</name>
                  <name>Griff, S</name>
                  <name>Hanson-Young, SC</name>
                  <name>Hinch, D</name>
                  <name>McKim, NJ</name>
                  <name>Patrick, RL</name>
                  <name>Rice, J</name>
                  <name>Siewert, R (teller)</name>
                  <name>Steele-John, J</name>
                  <name>Storer, TR</name>
                  <name>Waters, LJ</name>
                  <name>Whish-Wilson, PS</name>
                </names>
              </ayes>
              <noes>
                <num.votes>33</num.votes>
                <title>NOES</title>
                <names>
                  <name>Abetz, E</name>
                  <name>Bernardi, C</name>
                  <name>Birmingham, SJ</name>
                  <name>Brockman, S</name>
                  <name>Burston, B</name>
                  <name>Bushby, DC</name>
                  <name>Chisholm, A</name>
                  <name>Colbeck, R</name>
                  <name>Duniam, J</name>
                  <name>Fawcett, DJ</name>
                  <name>Fierravanti-Wells, C</name>
                  <name>Gallacher, AM</name>
                  <name>Gichuhi, LM</name>
                  <name>Hanson, P</name>
                  <name>Hume, J</name>
                  <name>Leyonhjelm, DE</name>
                  <name>Macdonald, ID</name>
                  <name>Martin, S.L</name>
                  <name>McAllister, J (teller)</name>
                  <name>McCarthy, M</name>
                  <name>McGrath, J</name>
                  <name>Molan, AJ</name>
                  <name>Moore, CM</name>
                  <name>Paterson, J</name>
                  <name>Payne, MA</name>
                  <name>Polley, H</name>
                  <name>Pratt, LC</name>
                  <name>Reynolds, L</name>
                  <name>Singh, LM</name>
                  <name>Smith, DA</name>
                  <name>Smith, DPB</name>
                  <name>Sterle, G</name>
                  <name>Williams, JR</name>
                </names>
              </noes>
              <pairs>
                <num.votes>0</num.votes>
                <title>PAIRS</title>
                <names></names>
              </pairs>
            </division.data>
            <division.result>
              <body>
                <p class="HPS-DivisionFooter">Question negatived.</p>
              </body>
            </division.result>
          </division><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Reynolds was going to get back to me with the answers to a couple of questions that I asked before we went to the amendments.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I understand your question was in relation to the $50 million provided to residential care. Is that correct? Yes. The advice I have is that it was provided to assist them in transferring to the new standards and that the Australian Aged Care Quality Agency is providing education, guidance and material on the quality agency website for all aged-care providers, regardless of the type of care.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:26</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SIEWERT</name>
    <name.id>e5z</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Perhaps you could take on notice, if you don't have it there already, the breakdown of the funding. I thought it was specifically allocated to residential care. Could you take on notice or give us the breakdown of what went to residential care and what was available for the other providers?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I don't have those figures, but I will certainly take that on notice.</para>
<para>Bill agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported without amendments; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:27</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator REYNOLDS</name>
    <name.id>250216</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>102</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r6143" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>102</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:28</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018. This bill creates a compulsory reporting scheme for medicine shortages and the discontinuation of medicine supplies. Knowing with as much lead time as possible about medicine shortages is vital for public health authorities, health professionals and patients. Whilst this can't prevent a shortage from occurring, it might, for example, allow for arrangements to be made to source an alternative supply of medicine. The Therapeutic Goods Administration can also work with a sponsor to identify and authorise the supply of a suitable substitute medicine. Public health authorities can also prepare advice on alternatives for patients, and, in extreme circumstances, supplies can be rationed.</para>
<para>If we don't know about a shortage ahead of time, patients will simply turn up to a pharmacy to find out that their medicine is not available. They might then end up travelling from pharmacy to pharmacy in a futile search, only to find later that the shortage is widespread. This might be even worse for a patient with a mental health condition. Anthony Tassone from the Pharmacy Guild of Australia said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">When you have a medication that is used to treat a mental health condition become in short supply, some patients become anxious, which is the last thing they need.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Tassone is absolutely right. The shortages will impact disproportionately on people who have a mental health condition. However, any person who suffers from a serious or life-threatening illness that requires medication is likely to be very concerned when they suddenly and unexpectedly find that they cannot obtain their medicine.</para>
<para>It is not just patients, though, who are left in the dark. Doctors often only find out about shortages through a call from a pharmacy or from their patients. This is clearly not good enough. It occurs despite the creation of the Medicine Shortages Information Initiative, launched in 2014, which aimed to improve the communication and management of medicine shortages. It is unclear if this scheme has resulted in any improvements. It is, however, a voluntary scheme which has been shown to have failed on several occasions where the supplier has not provided notifications in a timely enough manner. The shortage of the adrenaline auto-injector known as the EpiPen is a prime example. The TGA was only officially notified in January, despite there being reports about the issue since November. For people who are at risk of anaphylactic shock due to severe allergies, their adrenaline auto-injector is a life-saving device that many must have access to at all times.</para>
<para>Shortages are unfortunately becoming increasingly common, with 222 current shortages listed on the Medicine Shortages Information Initiative website. Of course, what we don't know is how many other shortages are known but have not been reported due to the voluntary nature of the reporting. In 2017, there was a shortage of the painkiller fentanyl, used during operations, resulting in rationing. There have also been recent shortages of antibiotics, antidepressant medications, oestrogen patches for women with menopausal symptoms, chemotherapy drugs and diabetic medication, to name just a few. Severe, prolonged or unresolved life-saving medicine shortages can put people's lives at risk.</para>
<para>The causes behind medicine shortages are numerous. They include manufacturing and transport issues and delays, closure, merging or relocating manufacturing facilities, changes in demand, shortages in raw materials, decisions to discontinue manufacturing a particular medicine, and natural disasters. In a more globalised world with rationalised supply chains, the increased reliance on overseas manufactured medicines adds to the uncertainty of supply. Medicine shortages have very real and negative impacts. The Australian Commission on Safety and Quality in Health Care had this to say about the impact of medicine shortages:</para>
<quote><para class="block">The association between medicine shortages and harmful medication errors is well documented. A survey undertaken by the Institute for Safe Medication Practices (ISMP) recorded approximately one in three (35%) respondents experienced a near miss during the past year due to a medicine shortage. One in five reported adverse patient outcomes over the year due to medicine shortages.</para></quote>
<para>The commission continued:</para>
<quote><para class="block">A number of issues are associated with medicine shortages which have the potential to impact safe and effective use of medicines. These include:</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Using alternative medications (or alternative concentrations, strengths or dosage forms of the same medicine) may introduce errors in prescribing, preparing, administering, and monitoring medicines</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Standardising product formularies and concentrations may become difficult or impossible with an unreliable product supply</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Clinicians may be more prone to make errors with unfamiliar products, concentrations, or dosage forms</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">Pressure to conserve medicines in short supply may lead to unsafe practices.</para></quote>
<para>The commission's comments explain exactly why we need to be better prepared to deal with and mitigate the impact of medicine shortages.</para>
<para>The new mandatory reporting scheme will apply to both medicine shortages and decisions to permanently discontinue supply. Whilst the scheme applies predominantly to prescription medicines, the Minister for Health will have the power to include other medicines on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods. The sponsor will be required to notify the TGA of a shortage or decision to permanently discontinue supply. Medicines are considered to be in shortage if supplies won't or likely won't meet demand at any time in the next six months. Shortages are considered on a national basis. A disruption that is just limited to specific locations in Australia would not be taken to be a shortage.</para>
<para>The time frame for reporting shortages is to be as soon as possible, but not longer than either two or ten working days, depending on whether the shortage would have a critical impact or not. Shortage reporting time frames apply only after consideration of all relevant information has occurred. For discontinuation, reporting is to be either 12 or six months before the discontinuation will occur, depending on whether that impact is critical or not. These time frames, however, don't constrain a sponsor's decision-making ability, and if they are unable to meet their time frames the reporting must then occur as soon as possible after a decision to discontinue has been made.</para>
<para>My understanding is that criminal penalties were originally being considered; however, under the bill, noncompliance will result in civil penalties only. Whilst it is appreciated that there are a range of views on what the appropriate penalties should be, this scheme is a substantial improvement over a voluntary reporting approach. The effectiveness of the scheme will no doubt be put to the test, given how common medicine shortages have become.</para>
<para>Separate to the creation of the mandatory reporting scheme, the bill makes several minor amendments to the act to reduce inefficiencies in the regulation of therapeutic goods. These changes include allowing legislative instruments to refer to the most up-to-date version of a document rather than a specific version, enabling certain notifications to the TGA to be submitted by a health practitioner on behalf of another practitioner and permitting online submission of certain applications rather than requiring them to be signed. Finally, variations to a medicine's listing on the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods, in certain circumstances where the changes are very minor, will now be able to be made without triggering the need for a new application for marketing approval.</para>
<para>These changes all appear to be reasonable, common sense improvements to the regulation of therapeutic goods. Mandatory reporting of medicine shortages appears to have widespread support amongst patients, health professionals and the industry. Labor supports the replacement of a voluntary reporting scheme for medicine shortages, which have proven to be insufficient, with a mandatory scheme and will be supporting this bill.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:38</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator BROCKMAN</name>
    <name.id>30484</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018, which amends the Therapeutic Goods Act 1989. This bill enables the Therapeutic Goods Administration to implement a mandatory reporting scheme for shortages of medicine in order to better address the public health implications associated with shortages of medicines in Australia. Medicine shortages have become an increasing problem in recent years for a number of reasons, including disruptions to manufacturing processes; unavailability of raw materials; manufacturing difficulties; changes in product formulation or manufacturer; commercial decisions by sponsors; industry consolidation; unexpected increases in demand due to, for example, a disease outbreak or new clinical practices; and the increasingly globalised nature of supply chains for many medicines.</para>
<para>There are currently shortages of 223 medicines in Australia that the TGA is aware of. A range of these medicines are critical for patients, such as EpiPen for anaphylaxis, of which there has been a shortage for much of 2018. Other shortages that currently exist are of medicines for the relief of angina symptoms, for the management of cardiac arrest and for the treatment of opioid overdose, amongst many others. Under the current voluntary scheme, the TGA is only made aware of such shortages if a company chooses to notify the TGA. This may occur in practice; however, this voluntary scheme for the reporting of medicine shortages by medicine sponsors, which has been in place since 2014, has, unfortunately, proven to be ineffective. Under this voluntary scheme, a significant number of medicine shortages of critical patient impact have not been reported to the TGA or have not been not reported in a timely manner. A recent example is EpiPen adrenaline autoinjectors, which are critical in the response to severe allergic reactions in many people, including children whose lives can depend on having rapid access to this life-saving medicine.</para>
<para>Often the first indication of a shortage is through correspondence from a member of the public impacted by it, and the situation then has to be confirmed with the sponsor. There have also been delays on some occasions in confirming the details of shortages under the voluntary arrangements. Where such shortages are identified, it is usual practice for the Therapeutic Goods Administration to work with the sponsor and other pharmaceutical suppliers to minimise any disruption to the availability of medicines in Australia and to notify doctors, pharmacists and consumers of alternative options. However, the current voluntary arrangements do not oblige medicine sponsors to report, meaning the TGA is not always able to alert the Australian public of shortages or give them timely advice about steps they may be able to take to alleviate the effects of a shortage, and it is not able to inform health practitioners so that they can work with patients to minimise the impact of a shortage.</para>
<para>What will this bill do in practice? This bill amends the act to introduce a mandatory requirement for sponsors of important medicines to report shortages of their products and any decision to permanently discontinue their products to the TGA. The measures outlined in this bill largely support recommendations made by key stakeholders such as pharmacists, doctors, consumers and the medicines industry. The bill will ensure that the new mandatory reporting scheme is properly targeted to higher-risk medicines by defining reportable medicines as those containing one or more substances mentioned in schedule 4 or schedule 8 to the current Poisons Standard. This principally identifies prescription medicines, but other medicines that are registered in the Australian Register of Therapeutic Goods may come within the scheme if they are specified in a legislative instrument to be made by the minister, where the minister is satisfied that a medicine is critical to the health of Australian patients and that its inclusion in the scheme would be of interest to the public health. Examples of products that may be included in this way are EpiPen autoinjectors, which I've already mentioned, and Ventolin inhalers.</para>
<para>In the instance where a medicine shortage is of critical patient impact, the sponsor of a reportable medicine will be required to notify the secretary of the Department of Health as soon as possible but no later than two working days after they first know or ought to have reasonably known about the shortage. For shortages that are not of critical impact, sponsors must notify the secretary no later than 10 working days after knowing of the shortage. It is important to note that the requirement to notify the Department of Health would only apply after the sponsor has considered all the information that they need to take into account for the purposes of identifying if there is or will be a shortage of their medicine and have concluded that a shortage applies.</para>
<para>For the first time, the definition of 'shortage' will be made clear. A shortage will exist at a point in time for a reportable medicine if its supply in Australia will not, or will not be likely to, meet the demand for it at any time in the following six months for all the patients in Australia who take it or who may need to take it. As such, this term takes a balanced approach by focusing on the overall situation of a medicine's availability in Australia, meaning that instances of short supply that only occur at particular locations in Australia will not be shortages under the bill, avoiding the over-reporting of events that may turn out not to be widespread shortages.</para>
<para>The bill will also require medicine sponsors to notify any decision to permanently discontinue the supply of a medicine in Australia. For permanent discontinuations of critical impact, the medicine's sponsor will be required to notify the Health secretary at least 12 months before the proposed discontinuation or, if this is not possible, as soon as practicable after the decision is made. For all other discontinuations, the requirement will be to notify the secretary at least six months before the proposed discontinuation, or, if this is not possible, as soon as practicable after the decision is made. A shortage or a permanent discontinuation of a medicine will be of critical impact when either the medicine is included in a legislative instrument to be made by the minister, to be known as the medicines watchlist, or if the medicine meets certain other criteria relating to its importance for patients. The medicines watchlist will identify medicines containing a list of known critical ingredients that are vital for public health, assisting sponsors to easily understand their reporting obligations.</para>
<para>A shortage or permanent discontinuation of a medicine that is not on the medicines watchlist may still be of critical patient impact if a shortage or discontinuation could have a life-threatening or serious impact on users' physical or mental health and if there are no registered medicines that could be used as a reasonable substitute for the medicine—or, if there are, if there would likely not be enough of such substitutes to meet the increased demand for them if the medicine in question went into shortage or was permanently discontinued by its sponsor. To ensure the new mandatory scheme is effective, it is accompanied by penalties for nonreporting. The bill introduces civil penalties for sponsors who do not comply with the requirement to notify the secretary of a shortage or a decision to permanently discontinue a reportable medicine within the applicable time frame. The maximum penalties would be 100 penalty units for an individual and 1,000 penalty units for a body corporate. The details of such action and the names of noncompliant sponsors and affected products would also be published on the TGA's website. It is important to note, however, that the TGA would, in practice, work with sponsors to ensure awareness of the scheme and an understanding of how to comply with it and take a graduated approach to instances of noncompliance.</para>
<para>In summary, these reforms are aimed, in particular, at addressing current gaps in how medicine shortages are managed in Australia, including, in particular, by introducing powers for the secretary to allow a more timely and proactive approach in managing and communicating medicine shortages; addressing the public health implications that are associated with medicine shortages in Australia; and improving collaborative efforts and transparency between sponsors, healthcare professionals, the TGA and consumers to ensure that the detrimental effects of medicine shortages are better mitigated and managed. These reforms build on the government's broader commitment to Australian patients and the commitment to medicines accessed through the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.</para>
<para>The Morrison government has a commitment to list all medicines available to patients where recommended by the medical experts. To that end, I was pleased the see the Prime Minister and Minister Hunt announce the listing of a new cystic fibrosis medicine on the PBS last weekend. The listing of Orkambi on the PBS from 1 October will provide access to a medicine that would otherwise cost patients up to $250,000 a year. This is part of the broader commitment from the Morrison government to guarantee the essential services that Australians rely upon.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:48</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I want to thank all senators for their contribution to the debate on the Therapeutic Goods Amendment (2018 Measures No. 1) Bill 2018. This bill will support Australian patients by introducing a scheme for the mandatory reporting of medicine shortages and decisions to permanently discontinue the supply of medicines in Australia for higher risk, mostly prescription medicines. I want to acknowledge the bipartisan support for this bill and thank all sides for recognising that the new regime to be enacted by this bill will benefit Australian patients and address recent community concern regarding the impact of medicine shortages.</para>
<para>Medicine shortages have become an increasing problem in recent years, and the shortage of a critical medicine places patient safety at risk. The recent shortage of EpiPen autoinjectors, which are critical in the response to severe allergic reactions in many people, including children, whose lives can depend on having rapid access to this life-saving medicine, is a case in point. The current voluntary scheme for reporting medicine shortages by sponsors has unfortunately proven to be ineffective, and a significant number of shortages of critical patient impact have not been reported to the Therapeutic Goods Administration. This means the TGA is not always able to alert the Australian public or their health practitioners to such shortages, or for steps to be taken to alleviate the effects of a shortage for patients.</para>
<para>This bill will amend the act to require the reporting of all medicine shortages and decisions to permanently discontinue reportable medicines within specified time frames, supported by appropriate civil penalties for noncompliance. In particular, a shortage that is of critical impact for patients must be notified to the Secretary of the Department of Health as soon as possible but no later than two working days after the sponsor knew, or ought reasonably to have known, of the shortage. This will enable complete and current information to be available to patients, healthcare professionals and those involved in stock management in healthcare facilities.</para>
<para>Shortages cannot always be avoided but, when they do occur, this mandatory reporting scheme will help Australian consumers to be more aware in advance and better enable measures to be put in place to minimise the risk to patients, such as redirecting of supply to where it is most needed or considering alternative treatments for patients while a medicine is in shortage.</para>
<para>I want to acknowledge the health minister, Greg Hunt, for his focus in improving the process for reporting medicine shortages and his willingness to improve the system through legislative change. I would also like to acknowledge Professor John Skerritt and officials at the TGA for their work in developing the specifics of this new scheme in collaboration with key stakeholders. To that end, I acknowledge state and territory health departments, and the key industry and clinical representative groups, for their support in developing this important scheme—in particular, the Australian Medical Association, the Society of Hospital Pharmacists of Australia and members of the Medicines Partnership of Australia, which includes the Pharmacy Guild of Australia, Medicines Australia, Australian Self Medication Industry, the National Pharmaceutical Services Association, the Pharmaceutical Society of Australia and the Generic and Biosimilar Medicines Association. I commend the bill to the Senate.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that the bill be now read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>247512</name.id>
    <electorate></electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>As no amendments to the bill have been circulated, I shall call the minister to move the third reading unless any senator requires that the bill be considered in Committee of the Whole.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Amendment Bill 2018</title>
          <page.no>106</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r6121" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Amendment Bill 2018</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>106</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:52</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Amendment Bill 2018. Here we have another Liberal bill designed to clean up another Liberal mess. You'd be forgiven for thinking that that is all this government does in health—clean up the messes of its own making. This bill amends the Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Act 2000—I'd call it the 'Pathology Tax Bill' for short—to change the frequency of the tax paid by approved pathology collection centres. Presently, Australia's roughly 6,000 collection centres each pay a tax of $1,000 when first approved and when their approval is renewed each year. Under this bill, collection centres will pay a tax of $2,000 every two years instead of $1,000 every year. This is intended to reduce the regulatory burden for government and industry while maintaining the revenue raised by the tax. This is a minor but welcome change, and we will support this bill.</para>
<para>But let's look at the real reason the government has put this bill forward. This is damage control. This issue goes back to 2009, when Labor introduced bulk-billing incentives for pathology and diagnostic imaging services. It was a sensible policy and it worked. By 2014-15, 114.3 million pathology services were provided out of hospital, with almost all of them, 98.7 percent of them, at no cost to the patient. Diagnostic imaging bulk-billing rates rose 10 per cent in just six years, thanks to Labor's measures.</para>
<para>What did the Liberals do? They did what they always do in the health portfolio; they stuffed it up. One of the most significant cuts in this Prime Minister's first Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook was to Labor's bulk-billing incentives, in a bid to save $650 million. There was no commitment to reinvest the money in the health portfolio; rather, the money would go to fund their other policy priorities. Health is always their last priority. After all, they would rather give big business an $80 billion tax cut than properly fund health care.</para>
<para>We on this side knew that these changes would hurt patients, forcing out-of-pocket costs even higher. Obviously, the pathologists were also going to pass the costs on to the patients. Even worse, it would force some people to delay getting critical tests, putting their lives at risk. So we did what Labor always do when the Liberals try to cut funding from our health system; we fought back. The sector fought back too. Describing it as a 'copayment by stealth', the AMA warned the move would hit the poorest and sickest the hardest. But when has this government ever cared about those sorts of people? The sector's Don't Kill Bulk Bill campaign delivered a petition with 600,000 signatures, showing once again that the Australian people are deadset against this government's health cuts.</para>
<para>This campaign clearly gave the Prime Minister quite the fright because, the next thing you knew, he was standing up in the middle of the first election debate with the opposition leader and announcing he had struck a hasty pre-election deal with the sector—in a bid to shut them up for the rest of the campaign. It was a shameless and cynical stunt to get his government through the election.</para>
<para>Under this dodgy deal, pathologists accepted the abolition of the bulk-billing incentive in exchange for the government's pledge to regulate the rents that pathologists pay GPs to co-locate in their practices. GPs were of course furious, so in the government's hasty attempt to buy the silence of the pathologists they had made enemies of the family doctor. That is typical of this government's approach to health—half-baked ideas and unnecessary cuts followed eventually by the inevitable humiliating backflips. The government capitulated again and used the 2017 budget to break its deal with pathologists and ditch the rent regulation plan, and to backflip on the bulk-billing incentives that set off this whole sorry saga.</para>
<para>This bill is one of a number of policy changes the government has offered to the pathology sector by way of a grovelling apology. This bill is not health policy; it is dispute resolution. Thank you.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>20:58</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator DI NATALE</name>
    <name.id>53369</name.id>
    <electorate>Victoria</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak to the Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Amendment Bill 2018. The Greens support this bill, which makes an administrative change to allow for the tax payable on the grant of an approved pathology collection centre to be $2,000 for a two-year period rather than annually at $1,000.</para>
<para>Pathology is essential to health care in Australia. Over 70 per cent of all healthcare decisions affecting diagnosis or treatment involve a pathology investigation, and all cancer diagnoses involve pathology. Pathology is ordered in one in every two visits to the GP. It's a vital service. It's an essential public service. There are now 5,804 pathology collection centres in Australia, and pathology actually has the highest bulk-billing rate of any medical service, at over 87 per cent. It's clearly something that Australians value. It's important. It's critical to providing access to good health care.</para>
<para>However, we Greens are concerned about the loss of diversity within the pathology sector. One of the consequences of that is the rise of corporatisation over public pathology. Since we've had the deregulation of collection centres—under the previous Labor government, it must be said, in 2010—there's been a significant change in the ownership of pathology practices. Instead of being owned by individual groups of specialist pathologists servicing a local community, pathology practices are now generally owned by very large corporations with a centralised laboratory structure. Pathology corporations are looking for more and more ways to dominate the market so that they can get economies of scale. That often means that they locate themselves inside GP clinics to try to capture patients.</para>
<para>The way corporates embed themselves in general practice within those clinics—and, let's remember, one of the concerns here is that you get this vertical integration, where you go and see a GP and they are associated very directly with one of the large companies—is by paying sometimes exorbitant rents for collection centre space. They often pay well over market rent to get a space in a GP surgery, knowing that they will get a significant return on the business they get from that practice. The reason they can do it is that, under the Health Insurance Act 1973, the rents are defined as 20 per cent of the market rate. That's the permissible rent—20 per cent of the market rate. But, when the market's defined as what a party is willing to pay, the limit's actually meaningless, and it's led to drastic increases. If it was redefined under the act as the rent for a comparable medical suite in the same geographic area then rents would come down. They would have to come down.</para>
<para>So, currently, public pathology providers, many of whom simply can't afford to pay huge rents, are now being outbid for collection centre space, sometimes having been in the same centre for years. There are strong clinical relationships between the GPs and other requesters of services, and the pathologists. They've got a long history in the centre, but they just can't afford to pay the rent anymore. Public pathology providers are being squeezed out. And of course that's made worse by the fact that, for some inexplicable reason, the government pays private pathology providers more for the same test than it pays the public pathology services under Medicare. For every specimen that's collected, private providers receive between $5.95 and $17.60, while public pathology providers receive only $2.40 under the MBS. There's a huge differential. It's no wonder that those minority players, those small groups of public pathology providers, can't compete. They're not being remunerated to the same degree, under the MBS item numbers, and they are being squeezed out by these huge rents that are being charged by GPs.</para>
<para>I don't blame GPs in this, by the way. When you've got general practices struggling because of the freeze on Medicare indexation—something begun by Labor but really taken somewhere very bleak under the Liberal coalition government, and it has hit so many practices so hard—they are looking for ways to supplement their revenue. One of the ways they see of doing that is by increasing the rents they charge to pathology providers. Of course, that leaves the providers between a rock and a hard place. If they want to find themselves located within a GP clinic then they have to pay those rents. What happens then is that the public providers, who simply can't compete with the private providers, are squeezed out. They are at a significant disadvantage.</para>
<para>A couple of things need to happen here. One is that we need to redefine what charging market rent is. As I said, if we had a simple change that meant it was the rent charged for a comparable medical suite in the same area, you would find that they couldn't charge well above market rent. Of course, that means more transparency in the system. It would hurt some general practices, but you don't fund general practices by having a business model that forces them to charge over the odds to try and get a pathology provider within their clinic; you do it by having a transparent model that funds Medicare appropriately and that ensures that Medicare item numbers keep up with indexation.</para>
<para>The second thing that needs to happen, quite clearly, is that we need to make sure that there's a level playing field in the pathology sector. The Greens are very strong supporters of ensuring that we have a well-funded, universal public health system. That means we're strong supporters of public pathology providers, and we do want to see a level playing field, including addressing out-of-control rents through amendments to the act and making sure that there's MBS parity between public and private pathology. We think that's only fair. These steps would lead to better outcomes for patients and a reduction in overservicing and would mean that we would put the interests of patients ahead of the interests of some of these very large corporate providers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:06</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
    <electorate>Queensland</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm perhaps the person in this chamber most learned to speak on this subject because 22 years ago I had a valve put in my heart, which proves that, unlike Senator Cameron, I can say that I have a heart! Since then, I've had to be on warfarin—</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>A point of order, Senator Cameron?</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Cameron</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Yes, a point of order: that is not a judgement that you can make!</para>
</interjection>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>That's not a point of order.</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator IAN MACDONALD</name>
    <name.id>YW4</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>But I can actually prove I have a heart. It was sitting on the table next to me. I challenge Senator Cameron to, in any way, prove that he has a heart. I can do it; very few others can. But, as a result of that, I am on warfarin, which is a blood thinner, which is needed. So every three, four, five or six weeks, I go to a pathology collection centre, and have done for the last 22 years.</para>
<para>I must say that, as with most things that the Greens talk about, they have a very narrow, city-centric view of any aspect of life in Australia. I live, as I said in the previous debate, in a big, small country town—there are about 20,000 people in the district—and my community is very well served by two pathology agents. There is QML, who actually have a collection centre in the medical centre operated by my general practitioner and his partners. I don't go there—not for any reason; QML deliver a wonderful service, I'm sure. I deal with the other provider in the north, a group called Sullivan Nicolaides, who are very big in Queensland. They have a collection centre in Ayr, and I use them because they're more or less across the road and down the street a bit from where I live, and I've been going to them for 22 years now. They're not in a rented premises of a doctor; they're in a shop downtown, not far from where I live.</para>
<para>The comments by the previous speaker again were directed at anyone who seeks to run a private, profit-making business in Australia. The Greens, again, demonstrate their supersocialist approach. They want to regulate market rentals, just as they want to regulate prices for absolutely everything—a typical old communist approach that even the Greens should have learnt failed in Russia, the USSR, and eastern Europe over the last 70 or 80 years. Communist or socialist, market-price fixation simply does not work. I'm not sure what more of history the Greens need to research to understand that market forces are far better than government regulation of any sorts of prices, be they market rents or others.</para>
<para>As a regular user of pathology collection centres, I have been through the ups and downs of the pathology industry. There was a time there when the government made some changes to moderate the payments made to pathologists. There was a huge hue and cry over that period of time, but it quietened down. I think the pathologists do pretty well financially—not that I begrudge them that. They do a wonderful job. They provide a wonderful service. What I love about the pathology companies that I am familiar with in Queensland, and I am sure it happens like this elsewhere in Australia, is that they do have these collection centres where someone like me—who lives 100 kilometres from the laboratory of Sullivan Nicolaides—just has to walk down the street, the collection of blood is taken and it is shipped up to Townsville a couple of times a day. It is then assessed by the skilled doctors, the specialists who understand what blood is all about, and they get the results back to my GP very, very quickly.</para>
<para>That happens not only in my town but in most towns in North Queensland. I am aware that both QML and Sullivan Nicolaides have a number of collection centres around the City of Townsville, which is a city of around 200,000 people. That's so that people don't have to drive for hours through city traffic to get to a collection centre. They can go to one that is near to them. They do provide a very worthwhile service. Unless you are a patient, a user of these services, you perhaps don't understand. But someone who does use them regularly, like me, understands just what a wonderful service these pathology centres provide. I know from experience over the last 22 years that the nurses who take the blood samples are exceptionally skilled nurses and also exceptionally lovely people, if I can say that, in looking after not just me—forget about me—but so many people who I see at the pathology collection centre. They are looked after, encouraged and administered to by the nurses who operate in those areas.</para>
<para>I understand that, I am hopeful that and I am assured by the government that this bill will lessen the regulatory burden on pathology agencies. Instead of paying a tax of $1,000 each year, they will now pay a tax of $2,000 every two years. As far as the money goes, it is not going to be any cheaper for the pathology agencies. It is going to mean that the government receives no less revenue for the services provided, but it does mean that some of the red tape will be reduced. The regulatory burden of pathology providers will not negatively impact smaller pathology providers, as there is no increase in the financial component, as I said. It is simply that the tax and the associated paperwork will now happen every two years rather than every year. I understand that these changes are welcomed by the pathology sector because it does decrease the effort currently involved in the annual renewal of the ACC tax—that is, the approved collection centre tax. This is a bill that is another approach by the government to reduce the regulatory burden on small businesses and it should be supported. I urge support by all senators.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:14</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Just before I briefly sum up—I won't respond directly to all the contributions, but I thank all senators for their contributions—I will just respond to some of what Senator Polley had to say, claiming cuts here, there and everywhere, which is of course not the case. In fact, I would point not just to the coalition government's record investment in hospitals but also, when it comes to things like PBS listings, being able to list so many new drugs and save Australians who are doing it tough, to give them access to medicines that would otherwise simply be out of reach. That includes Spinraza for spinal muscular atrophy, saving patients over $350,000; Kisqali for breast cancer, saving Australian women over $70,000 a year; and Orkambi for cystic fibrosis, saving patients up to $250,000. So, I do reject some of the assertions made by Senator Polley. This is what happens when you get control of the budget, and indeed we see that, in stark contrast to the former Labor government, who deferred the listing of many of these medicines because they simply didn't have the money.</para>
<para>But putting that aside, I want to thank members for their contributions to the debate and support for this bill. This bill will amend the Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Act 2000 to increase flexibility by enabling tax payable on the grants of an approved specimen collection centre to be calculated for approvals granted for periods longer than one year. The bill will amend tax payable on the grant of an approval of an ACC from $1,000 paid annually to $2,000 paid two-yearly. The rate of the tax has not been changed since the act was enacted in 1999. Careful consideration was given for no increase to the tax to ensure that smaller ACCs were not negatively impacted. The changes to the tax and the proposed corresponding amendment to the Health Insurance (Eligible Collection Centres) Approval Principles 2010 to extend approvals from one year to two years will be welcomed by the sector as they assist in reducing operational and administrative burden.</para>
<para>There are a number of parallel projects that support the development and implementation of the government's direction for pathology that include administrative changes by automating and streamlining processes to reduce the regulatory burden for pathology providers. The department has been engaging with and will continue to engage with key stakeholders prior to the amendment to the tax and the extension of the time frame for new and renewed ACC applications, including reaffirming the key elements of the measure announced in the budget.</para>
<para>In summary, this bill will amend the tax payable on the grant of an approval for an ACC from $1,000 annually to $2,000 to be paid two-yearly. This amendment is an essential component to the budget measure as part of streamlining processes and reducing the administrative burden for pathology collection centres. I table a supplementary explanatory memorandum relating to a government amendment to be moved to this bill. Thank you.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT</name>
    <name.id>111206</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>The question is that this bill be read a second time.</para>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a second time.</para>
</interjection>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>In Committee</title>
            <page.no>109</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:18</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move amendment (1) as circulated:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Amdt HB170 - Health Insurance (Approved Pathology Specimen Collection Centres) Tax Amendment Bill 2018</para></quote>
<quote><para class="block"> <inline font-style="italic">(Government)</inline></para></quote>
<quote><para class="block">(1) Clause 2, page 2 (table item 2), omit the table item, substitute:</para></quote>
<para>So, it is simply a fairly technical minor amendment.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:19</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate the advice we've just received in relation to the amendment. The minister has advised that this amendment is about timing. What is the purpose of the change that we have before us?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that it's simply because of the delay in the passage of this bill. That has led to a change in the commencement date. The commencement date would have predated the passage of this bill so that's why we've got either 1 December or royal assent.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAMERON</name>
    <name.id>AI6</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I appreciate that, Minister. Has this matter been raised with the appropriate shadow, from your perspective?</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:20</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I'm advised that it was circulated prior to the debate today and was deemed noncontroversial. That's my advice. If there's a contrary view, I'm happy to consider it, but obviously this isn't my portfolio, so I'm just going on the advice that I have.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:21</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator POLLEY</name>
    <name.id>e5x</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I hadn't actually seen the amendment, but I do take the minister's advice on that.</para>
<para>Bill, as amended, agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill reported with an amendment; report adopted.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Third Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator SESELJA</name>
    <name.id>HZE</name.id>
    <electorate>Australian Capital Territory</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I move:</para>
<quote><para class="block">That this bill be now read a third time.</para></quote>
<para>Question agreed to.</para>
<para>Bill read a third time.</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Imported Food Control Amendment Bill 2017</title>
          <page.no>110</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><subdebate.text>
          <body xmlns:pic="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/picture" xmlns:wp="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/wordprocessingDrawing" xmlns:aml="http://schemas.microsoft.com/aml/2001/core" xmlns:wx="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/word/2003/auxHint" style="" xmlns:r="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/officeDocument/2006/relationships" xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:a="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/drawingml/2006/main" xmlns:w="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/main" xmlns:w10="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" background="">
            <a href="r5894" type="Bill">
              <p class="HPS-SubDebate" style="direction:ltr;unicode-bidi:normal;">
                <span class="HPS-SubDebate">Imported Food Control Amendment Bill 2017</span>
              </p>
            </a>
          </body>
        </subdebate.text><subdebate.2><subdebateinfo>
            <title>Second Reading</title>
            <page.no>110</page.no>
          </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:23</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator CAROL BROWN</name>
    <name.id>F49</name.id>
    <electorate>Tasmania</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>The Imported Food Control Amendment Bill 2017 makes changes to strengthen Australia's current risk based management approach of imported food to better protect the health of consumers. Labor supports the bill because it recognises that while Australia has a robust imported food safety system it can always be improved and strengthened, especially as Australia imports greater amounts from other countries through our bilateral trade agreements. In 2015-16 Australia imported $16 billion worth of food.</para>
<para>This bill amends, as I have said, the Imported Food Control Act 1992 to strengthen the current risk based management approach to imported food safety to better protect the health of consumers. The bill will require documentary evidence from importers to demonstrate that they have effective, internationally recognised food safety controls in place throughout their supply chains for the types of food where at-border testing alone is insufficient to provide assurance of food safety. It will broaden Australia's emergency powers to allow food to be held at the border where there is uncertainty about the safety of particular food and where the scientific approach to verify its safety is not established. It will provide additional powers to monitor and manage new and emerging risks. It will recognise an entire foreign country's food safety regulatory system where it is equivalent to Australia's food safety system, which will facilitate less intervention at the border for food products from that country. It will align the definition of 'food' with other Commonwealth legislation. It will establish differentiated enforcement provisions to establish a graduated approach to noncompliance. It will require all importers of food to be able to trace food one step forward and one step backwards. It will address minor technical issues with the current legislation to ensure efficient administration of the imported food legislation. The bill will also reduce the regulatory burden for compliant food importers.</para>
<para>Food-borne illnesses are serious and have major consequences when outbreaks occur. In 2010, it was estimated that there were 4.1 million episodes of food-borne gastrointestinal illness in Australia and 86 related deaths. The regulatory impact study states that in 2010 it was estimated that 4.1 million episodes of food illness in Australia were advised of. The recent food safety issues with imported foods, such as the outbreak of hepatitis A associated with imported frozen berries in 2015, exposed limitations in Australia's import food safety management system. The outbreak of hepatitis A occurred in 2015; unfortunately, it has taken the government almost two years to introduce measures to strengthen Australia's food safety management system. The RIS also states that the department proposed a package of legislative and non-legislative reforms to better align the imported food inspection program with contemporary and preventive risk-managed approaches. The policy objective was to strengthen the current system to provide more flexible and targeted ways to prevent and respond to food safety risks, to better protect the health of consumers by reducing the regulatory burden for compliant food importers and to uphold our international obligations.</para>
<para>The economic costs of food-borne illnesses in Australia are substantial, with doctor visits, treatments and days off work reported to cost $1.2 billion per year. The public expect that, when food-borne illnesses occur, there are systems in place to deal with the suspected source as soon as possible, and this includes possibly contaminated imported food. The outbreak, as I mentioned before, of hepatitis A in 2015 that was linked to imported frozen berries exposed limitations in the current imported food system. Back then, it was under the Abbott-Truss government, but now the former Minister for Agriculture, true to form, has taken aim at the importing country and turned his attention to country-of-origin labelling rather than investigating if there is a way of strengthening Australia's imported food regulatory system. On 18 February 2015 Mr Joyce said that he believed there should be clear country-of-origin labelling on all imported foods so that consumers knew exactly where the products were coming from. He said there was a review currently underway and he would be pushing for proper labelling to be implemented 'as quickly as possible'. Minister Joyce said:</para>
<quote><para class="block">We should have proper country of origin labelling. Maybe other countries are not as concerned about food safety as we are.</para></quote>
<para>Mr Joyce urged Australians to seek out locally made products:</para>
<quote><para class="block">Buy Australian and save yourself a pain in the gut.</para></quote>
<para>Minister Joyce should have checked his facts because the packages relating to the suspected contaminated frozen berries were clearly labelled with the country of origin. Minister Joyce went further, claiming that labels were needed that clearly identify 'unambiguously, as soon as you pick up a package, whether it is from our country with our strong ... sanitary requirements'. He further said, 'that is making sure that faecal contamination, which is a very polite word for poo, is not anywhere near your food—not going to be put in your mouth'. This was an outrageous statement by the minister.</para>
<para>Sadly, rather than pushing to strengthen our imported food regulatory systems back in 2015, Minister Joyce chose to criticise our trading partners. Amendments to this bill should have been made in 2015. In regard to the new country-of-origin labelling, recent media articles are claiming that small Australian agrifood businesses such as Brookfarm Muesli in Byron Bay will have to redesign their packaging, with Brookfarm Muesli estimating it will cost $500,000 to redesign their 70 different packages. Further, health experts from Monash University are claiming that the new labels were not giving consumers the information they really wanted—that it doesn't actually tell us where our food comes from. We really don't need Monash University to tell us that, because anyone who spends any time in supermarkets would know that. What it does tell us is that food is from Australia, and then it leaves you to guess where the rest of the ingredients are from, unless the product is totally from another country, in which case it is labelled as coming from that country. This was the case with the suspected contaminated berries. So, while the new country-of-origin labelling does nothing to strengthen Australia's imported food system, the amendments to this bill will do that.</para>
<para>The Labor Party will be supporting this bill, as we see it as strengthening the current risk based management approach of imported food safety to better protect the health of consumers.</para>
</speech>
<speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:33</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
    <electorate>New South Wales</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise to speak on the Imports Food Control Amendment Bill 2017. I ask: what do you think Australia does best? Of course, my answer is grow food. We are brilliant at growing food and people all around the world want to eat our food. We have FSANZ and we have a high level of standards so we know that we can eat Australian food with total confidence. Thankfully, the rest of the world knows that as well. That's why they are so keen to buy our lamb, mutton, beef and many other products. We do allow a lot of imported food into Australia. I remember as a pig farmer when the Hawke government, in the late 1980s, allowed the importing of pig meat into Australia. I wasn't keen on the idea one bit. We had plenty of pig meat here. The market was going along well but under a trade agreement the then Labor government, perhaps, did not have a lot of consideration for the Australian pork industry. Although, Mr Keating at the time had a fair investment in the pig industry in the Hunter Valley. My piggery was not as successful as his, unfortunately.</para>
<para>There was the Nanna's berries contamination situation in 2015 where hepatitis A spread to far too many people. It caused a fair scandal. I disagree with Senator Brown; I think the country-of-origin labelling is a great thing. I have pushed for it for some 25 years so that people can identify where they're buying their food from. Is it Australian, is it imported or is it a blend? I think the more knowledge you can give the consumer about what they are about to eat, where the food comes from, is a very good thing.</para>
<para>The Senate inquiry, with the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee, in the Northern Territory identified where fish is from—whether it is the local fish-and-chip shop, the restaurants or whatever—given so much fish is imported into Australia and so much can be misleading about imported fish. I remember that Australis Barramundi, which you would think would be Australian barramundi, was actually farmed fish from Vietnam. It can be very misleading. This bill tightens up the regulations.</para>
<para>Even just last week we had stories on the <inline font-style="italic">7</inline><inline font-style="italic">.</inline><inline font-style="italic">30</inline> program about contaminated and adulterated honey being brought into Australia. This does go on. People cheat the system. I remember back in 2014 when I reported a company to the ACCC, they had a product called Victoria Honey. You wouldn't blame people who think, 'What is Victoria honey? It is honey from the honey bee in Victoria.' No, it was corn syrup from Turkey, which is a big difference. Then the ACCC banned the product. The company was fined $30,600, which was nowhere near enough, and the product was removed from the shelf. Amazingly, that company sold 186,000 one-kilo packages of that so-called Victoria Honey—that is, 186 tonnes. To be fined $30,000 was a slap with a feather. They probably made a pretty handy profit out of the whole deal and cheated the Australian consumer. People do cheat with the adulterated honey and other products that come to this country. We have our strict regulations here, which is great, because, as I said, everyone can eat Australian food with total confidence knowing that it's healthy and it's good for you.</para>
<para>We asked a few questions about this bill. Why is this bill needed, for example? Whilst Australia has a robust food safety system, food-borne illness remains a serious and costly public health and safety issue for the government and industry. The consequence of food safety incidents are broad, including economic loss and reduced consumer confidence as well as serious risks to human health. Consumers rely on existing food regulation and market forces to ensure imported food is safe for human consumption. Recent food safety issues with imported food, such as the Australian outbreak of hepatitis A linked to the imported frozen berries in 2015, as I mentioned, exposed limitations with the current imported food regulatory system. Management of imported food safety risks is challenged by increasing globalisation of food supply and increasingly complex supplier chains. Border testing alone is no longer sufficient to provide assurance of a food's safety, particularly for ready-to-eat and minimally processed foods. Assurance of food safety must be drawn from preventative controls throughout the supply chain.</para>
<para>The bill provides a range of practical measures designed to strengthen and address limitations with the current imported food regulatory systems by increasing importers' accountability for food safety, that's most important; increasing importer sourcing of safe food; improving the ability to monitor and manage new and emerging food safety risks; and improving food safety incidence response.</para>
<para>The bill contains provisions mandating documentary evidence that importers have effective, internationally recognised food safety controls in place throughout the supply chains for the types of food where at-border testing alone is insufficient to provide assurance of food safety—in other words, they are to do their job better overseas, or they'll face the music here; broadening Australia's emergency powers to allow food to be held at the border where there is uncertainty about the safety of a particular food and where the scientific approach to verify its safety is not yet established; providing additional powers to monitor and manage new and emerging risk; recognising a foreign country's food safety regulatory system, where there is equivalence with Australian food safety systems, to facilitate and reduce intervention at the border for food products from that country; and aligning the definition of 'food' with Commonwealth legislation.</para>
<para>The bill is compatible with human rights, as it promotes the protection of human rights, and, to the extent it may limit human rights, those limitations are reasonable, necessary and proportionate. Targeted stakeholder and formal public consultation has been ongoing in the development of the bill and broader policy reforms. Consultation has been undertaken with imported food industry representatives, state and territory food authorities, trading partners and relevant Commonwealth agencies, including the Department of Health and Food Standards Australia New Zealand. It was most important that we had this consultation period to negotiate things.</para>
<para>Public consultation with industry and trading partners was facilitated through the imported food regulation impact statement, or RIS, which assessed the regulatory costs and benefits of the reforms on food importers. Consultation was undertaken with food importers on the development of the bill and on the operational details of the legislative changes, and with supply chain companies, including food safety management schemes, certifying bodies, customs brokers, freight associations and food retailers. The exposure draft of the amendment bill was released on 20 March 2017, for 45 days, concluding on 4 May 2017. A World Trade Organization sanitary and phytosanitary agreement notification was also made at this time, inviting comment from trading partners. Eight industry and three trading partner submissions were received. All indicated broad support for the draft legislation's amendments. No restraint-of-trade issues were raised by industry and trading partners.</para>
<para>What are the negative impacts of this bill if passed? The negative impacts of this bill if passed are few. The regulatory burden is an estimated net cost across all businesses importing food of $0.216 million per annum. Some businesses that import the types of food that are ready to eat and minimally processed will be required to demonstrate that the food has been subject to preventative controls through the supply chain to ensure food safety outcomes. Once or twice a year, when there is a suspicion that a food may pose a hazard to human health but the scientific approach has not yet been established to verify this, that food can be held until the scientific approach is established. Food can only be held until a scientific approach is established and only where there is a reasonable suspicion that the food poses a serious risk to human health. This is the whole objective of this bill. It's about preventing illness, sickness and looking after people as far as their health goes. I've travelled to Thailand many times, mainly for Anzac Day, and, yes, I've caught the bug over there. I've seen other people get food poisoning. It was while I was in Thailand that I learnt that food poisoning can actually kill you. People have died from food poisoning. It is a serious thing. So this bill is here to protect the health of Australians. As I said, we can eat Australian food with total confidence. We've been doing that for a few hundred years—or longer, for our Indigenous people, with native animals et cetera.</para>
<para>But what is the impact of this bill on small businesses? That is a good question. Australian small businesses will benefit from this bill through better management of food safety. Australian businesses that sell food that has been imported into Australia will have greater confidence in the safety of that food. For the majority of the small businesses that import food into Australia there will be very few changes. Businesses importing food from foreign countries where we have an equivalence recognition in place will benefit from reduced intervention at the border, reducing their costs. Around 2.5 per cent of importers will need to ensure that they or their overseas suppliers have food safety management certificates for the food they import. The biggest expense most small businesses face is labour, so having safer food in Australia and reducing foodborne illness will benefit small businesses through better staff productivity and reduced costs associated with food safety recalls.</para>
<para>Another part of this bill is that it enables more targeted intervention at the border. This means we will be able to focus our efforts where they are needed, rather than applying a one-size-fits-all approach. The bill will enable the investigation of new and emerging risks and proactive regulation, and it will ensure we are able to respond to the changing global food marketplace. Changes to how we are able to define food will result in a more refined approach, ensuring that intervention is limited to the food that requires it. This means that importers who are doing the right thing are less likely to be caught in the net when there is a problem. This bill will enable a graduated response to noncompliance through the introduction of a graduated enforcement scheme. Currently, the act includes a number of offences with an appropriately significant maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment, which reflects the potentially serious consequences of a food safety incident. The graduated enforcement scheme will introduce a range of lower penalties that will enable illegal activity to be penalised before a significant event occurs. This more flexible, graduated scheme is more responsive to illegal activity and helps to ensure importers comply with the law, which, of course, is most important.</para>
<para>The amendments introduce the ability of Australia to enter into an agreement with another country to reduce at-border intervention where there has been an equivalent assessment of the foreign country's food safety regulatory system. In other words, if the country that's producing the food raises its standard to something like FSANZ, Food Standards Australia New Zealand, that we have here, then they won't have so much trouble getting it in here and the system is deemed equivalent to Australia's—that's the most important thing. This amendment enables Australia and another country to assess each other's food safety systems, including ongoing monitoring, and, where both systems are assessed as equivalent, it will enable a reduced rate of intervention at the border. The amendments enable agreements with foreign countries to be as flexible as possible, ensuring Australia is able to continue to protect against foods that are unsafe. This is the main issue here: protecting our people from foods that are unsafe. The agreements can recognise all foods coming in from another country, recognise some foods coming while specifically excluding certain foods, or only recognise specific foods while excluding all other foods. The rate of intervention at the border can be set to reflect the risk that is posed. Importers sourcing food from countries with the recognition agreement may experience reduced border intervention and associated cost to business.</para>
<para>How will the amendments make a difference if an incident similar to the one in 2015 linked to frozen berries happens? That's a good question. The hepatitis A outbreak in 2015 linked to imported frozen berries highlighted some limitations of the current system. The bill will address those limitations through a range of measures that together will reduce the likelihood of a similar event occurring in the future and ensure we are able to respond quickly if it does occur. Obviously, it is cost prohibitive to test every food at the border, and from time to time a new issue will present itself that can't be foreseen. However, this bill will introduce a range of measures that, working together, will reduce those risks. As I said, in Australia we can eat our food with total confidence, and we've got to make sure that Australian people can do the same with what we import from overseas.</para>
<para>Another question that may be asked is: how will the amendments make a difference to concerns similar to those about adulterated honey? I have mentioned this. Corn syrup and sugar cane syrup have been falsified as or blended with honey and brought in from overseas in huge amounts—a lot of it from China, it has just recently been discovered. It is then mixed with honey here, and this contaminated, adulterated honey is put on the shelves and sold as honey. You're not buying the real McCoy. I really think we need to increase our fines and punishment here, as I said before.</para>
<interjection>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator Sterle</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Hear, hear!</para>
</interjection>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator WILLIAMS</name>
    <name.id>I0V</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>Senator Sterle, you'd be familiar with the work done by the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee. We've seen people import false product and cheat the Australian consumer, and the punishment is just minuscule compared to the money they've made out of the product. The amendments in this bill go a great way to solving a lot of these problems. Of course, the whole answer is—and I'm biased—to buy Australian food wherever you can. We've now got food labelling. Senator Brown is perhaps not overly keen about the country-of-origin labelling system. I pursued that years ago in the pig industry, when we allowed the importing of meat from Canada, Denmark and such places. People were hoodwinked by false branding which said 'manufactured in Australia', when in actual fact it was processed in Australian from imported pig meat. People thought they were buying Australian-grown meat, but they weren't.</para>
<para>So this bill, through these amendments, will tighten immensely the rules on importing food and make sure that it's processed cleanly and in a healthy fashion—properly, with contaminants removed and also the risk of illness from food poisoning removed. Hence it will be a lot safer for our consumers, and that's the whole thing. But remember that the best way to eat good food is to buy Australian.</para>
<para>Debate interrupted.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.2></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>ADJOURNMENT</title>
        <page.no>114</page.no>
        <type>ADJOURNMENT</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Western Australia: Workplace Relations</title>
          <page.no>114</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>21:50</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
    <electorate>Western Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>I rise tonight not on a good note, unfortunately, but I think the Senate should really listen to what I have to say. I can't believe that in this day and age I'm making this speech.</para>
<para>In Western Australia, roughly 1,600 workers are on an indefinite strike at Alcoa sites around the state. This has been going on for the last month—34 days, to be exact. Sixteen hundred Western Australians are attempting to ensure that their job security is there and to maintain their current conditions. That's not unfair to ask for in this day and age, surely, in a developed nation as great as this country, Australia?</para>
<para>But Alcoa workers from Kwinana, Pinjarra and across the region have voted against accepting a new enterprise bargaining agreement, with 80 per cent—can you believe that, Mr Acting Deputy President Smith?—turning down the company's proposal. That's a pretty strong endorsing number of those workers who don't want the agreement. But wait until I go into what is expected of them, and you'll understand. In fact, you'll probably question how come it's only 80 per cent.</para>
<para>Alcoa has applied to the Fair Work Commission—and this makes me want to vomit—to have workers' current terms and conditions terminated. I'm told that the hearings will commence next Monday, and I understand that the AWU are hoping to have a meeting with Alcoa before the end of this week. I urge Alcoa, for crying out loud, to sort out this mess that they've created. Right from the beginning the workers have said that they're happy—listen to this!—to meet with Alcoa management, and that that's not a problem. However, nothing has happened yet; the company won't meet with them.</para>
<para>This fight is about protecting job security, not just for the workers there now but for generations to come—as generations before them have been at Alcoa. Mr Acting Deputy President, you're from the great state of WA, you understand what I'm talking about. This is not a union rant; every Australian and Western Australian legislator and, in fact, the whole public should be alarmed at what I'm telling you and what I'm sharing with this chamber. These workers, some of whom have worked for the company for over 30 years—I've met a number of them—only want what is fair and reasonable. They want secure jobs and fair conditions so that they can support their families and also support and contribute to their communities, as they've done for many years.</para>
<para>Let me share the facts with the Senate. Alcoa is trying to rip away job security, and families depend on job security. Alcoa made a profit of $1.1 billion using bauxite which belongs to the Australian people. There is nothing wrong with profit, that's fine, and $1.1 billion is nothing to sneeze at. Have a listen to this: Alcoa's employees offered the company a three-year wage freeze—three years—which the company rejected. No-one can make this crap up! Sorry, I should haven't said that. I can't make this rubbish up. This is unbelievable! They offered a three-year wage freeze and the company rejected it. For crying out loud, I can think of how many employers would jump at that and snatch the rings off the fingers of the guys and girls as they went to sign the agreement.</para>
<para>Alcoa is trying to cut the workers' pay by no less than up to 50 per cent. Who in this nation would offer a three-year pay freeze and then get salt rubbed into their eyes by the employer saying, 'Not only do we want that but we want you to take a 50 per cent cut.' This is Alcoa, a greedy multinational mining company. That's what they are, and I can tell them that I haven't finished with them yet.</para>
<para>In 2017, the company generated a total revenue of $4,578 billion, including sales and other revenue. These figures are unbelievable! So they aren't screwing the living daylights out of just their workforce. These workers don't want a pay rise; they just want job security. Not only do they not want a pay rise, and said that they would have a wage freeze for three years, but they actually don't want to be forced into redundancies—and you would get this, Mr Acting Deputy President Smith—while there are labour hire companies and contractors on the site. What is un-Australian about a full-time employee who has been there for many, many years—or even one who has only been there for a week—who wants to save their job and offers a three-year wage freeze, just saying, 'Please, Mr Greedy ALCOA, don't march us off the job with, "Here's your redundancy," while there are contractors and darned labour hire'?</para>
<para>And I won't start on what I think about labour hire companies—no, I will. What a bunch of parasites the labour hire companies are. But I'll save that for another day. And I speak with authority here, because I had to deal with the grubs when I was in the transport industry. They offer nothing to the workers that they don't have to, above the grubby minimum wages that they pay them. They offer nothing in training—you know that, Mr Acting Deputy President Ketter. They offer no holidays and no long service leave. Parasites they are, in the industrial scene.</para>
<para>Anyway—so what did I do? After I'd visited the sights of Pinjarra and Kwinana, I met with the men and the women down there. Politicians were coming out of the woodwork! And hats off to Mr Hastie. Who'd have thought—</para>
<para>An honourable senator interjecting—</para>
<continue>
  <talker>
    <name role="metadata">Senator STERLE</name>
    <name.id>e68</name.id>
  </talker>
  <para>no, seriously—there would be a coalition member on the back of a ute, addressing workers? He knows this is not a union stoush. This is destroying a community, and 1,600 jobs so they can outsource them to contractors or say, 'You can take a 50 per cent wage cut and then you can come back in our gates, and, by the way, we're not even going to talk to you; we don't even want to know you people, even though you worked for us for years.'</para>
<para>So I wrote a letter to Alcoa, and I want to share this letter. It's on the web, so it's out there. I've got the 'nice Glenn Sterle' hat on, but, I've got to tell you, if I'd been on the picket line for 34 days, it wouldn't be the nice Glenn Sterle! In it I've virtually asked Alcoa: 'Please, you're making a good deal of money—and that's fine; that's great—you've been in the community, you've been in our state, extracting our resources with Australian workers. All we ask is that, while you're making money, just give the workers the decency of putting in writing, in an agreement that offers no pay rises for three years: "We won't march you off the job under the pretence of a redundancy and employ contractors and labour hire." Is that fair?'</para>
<para>Well, this should come as no shock. I wrote the letter and sent it off on 3 September. Today is only the 10th, and I know that that is only a week, but all these sites are shut down. The mines are shut down; the refineries are shut down. It's not as though they're flat-out busy, unless they're planning to bring in foreign workers or contractors or whatever it is. You'd think someone in Alcoa would've thought, 'We'd had better respond and just say, "Look, you're on the wrong train, mate," or, "Yes, we want to talk to our employees; you go away; we'd rather deal with them."' No—radio silence from Alcoa.</para>
<para>I don't even know anyone at Alcoa, except the workers. I've never met the management of Alcoa, and I've got no desire to meet the management from Alcoa, unless they come in here and apologise for shafting the living daylights out of Australian workers. That's the only reason I'd want to. In fact, I want to share this with you, Mr Acting Deputy President. This is not the case, but if Glenn Sterle was the Prime Minister, it'd be sorted very quickly, because the phone call would go through to the management under this feller, Mr Michael Parker, who I've never had the chance of meeting, who is the chairman and managing director, and I'd say: 'Mr Parker, it's the Prime Minister here, Glenn Sterle. I want you to come and have a meeting with me. Jump on the first plane to Canberra—or, even better, if you're too busy I'll come to you,' and, when I got there or he got here, the advisers and the bureaucrats would be out of the room, and his hangers-on taking their notes would all be out of the room, and we would have a man-to-man conversation about the way things happen in Australia. And I can guarantee you one thing: it wouldn't be pleasant, because how the hell can a mongrel—jeez, I could get so wound up here! How can a foreign company come in here, extract our resources—ours; they belong to the Australian people, but I'd normally have no problem with this—have 30 years of continued growth in our state of Western Australia from digging up our bauxite and exporting it around the world, and, by the same token, be frogmarching Australians seafarers off the MV <inline font-style="italic">Portland</inline>? I said last year and the year before that this was just the thin end of the wedge: 'Here they come to replace them with foreign workers.' And they love this model. Mr Parker, you want to cross your fingers that I never decide to go to the other side and end up as the Prime Minister, because I can tell you I would be around a lot longer than you, Mr Parker from Alcoa.</para>
<para>I make no apologies for this. This is disgraceful, disgusting behaviour by a foreign raider. How the hell can they go through our communities in the south-west of Western Australia, Senator Dean Smith, and say, 'Aren't we good people because we might build a set of shades over a playground or something'? I'm told that Alcoa had been a responsible member of the community, but they'd had a shift in management. The previous managers, in my eyes and the workers' eyes, were decent, working human beings who all had the same objectives at the end of the day. There was a family there to consider, trying to pay off a mortgage and put the kids through school and give them the best opportunity and hoping the grandkids would get an even better opportunity.</para>
<para>Well, Mr Parker, if this is the way you run your business—in fact, I would like to meet Mr Parker. Oh, I would relish the opportunity, because this man has a lot to answer for. Mr Parker, you should at least have the intestinal fortitude to pick up the phone, call your workers, call your staff, call the ones who have contributed to your company's wealth and to your pay packet. You and all your mates around you are hiding there in Melville in the three-storey building where I attended the other day. They are hiding behind the laws of this land that can take enterprise agreements away from workers and shaft them by 50 per cent to put more money into the grubby pockets of Mr Michael Parker and every one of the other mongrels on the board of Alcoa. What a disgrace.</para>
</continue>
</speech>
</subdebate.1><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Asylum Seekers</title>
          <page.no>116</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo><speech>
  <talker>
    <time.stamp>22:00</time.stamp>
    <name role="metadata">Senator GRIFF</name>
    <name.id>76760</name.id>
    <electorate>South Australia</electorate>
  </talker>
  <para>Last week marked another low in our government's handling of Australia's obligations towards people fleeing persecution. In the midst of the Pacific Islands Forum, the government of Nauru blocked the evacuation of a mentally ill refugee needing urgent treatment, despite an Australian Federal Court order that she immediately be brought to Australia for treatment. I know on this occasion, technically, this was not the Australian government's fault. They even had an air ambulance on stand-by. She was ultimately flown out on a commercial flight. However, I am sure there is no need to remind this government and those sitting opposite, whose hands are by no means clean, that the only reason the Federal Court orders were needed is the fact that Australia has abrogated its moral responsibility for these asylum seekers.</para>
<para>The government and Labor are so determined to keep to the policy that no asylum seeker who arrives by boat is resettled in Australia. This is a cruelty, I might add, that was devised under Kevin Rudd's leadership. I often wonder how the architects of this policy sleep at night when we hear of children on Nauru self-harming and suffering psychological trauma that will burden them for the rest of their lives. This act is the indefinite detention of vulnerable people who have lawfully sought our protection. It is a disgraceful, dishonourable act. The government likes to downplay the number of people it has in detention. Why is it not being honest with the Australian people? It says there are no children detained on Nauru when, in fact, there are more than 100 children wasting their lives away on that island. They are not technically incarcerated, but they are there and they are certainly not free.</para>
<para>If you think that is rich, you should check out the Department of Home Affairs' latest monthly Operation Sovereign Borders update. If a member of the public were to read that piece of PR spin, they would be forgiven for thinking there are only 189 asylum seekers on Nauru when, in fact, there are close to 1,000 still on the island and no asylum seekers on Manus at all. The fact that successive governments have passed the buck to Nauru and PNG and have allowed these people to waste away without hope is deeply shameful to many, many Australians. I wonder, though, whether anyone on the government's side or the opposition, for that matter, listens anymore to denouncements of their offshore policy. The two sides are in lock step on this. I fear that it just falls on deaf ears, despite the enormous financial and reputational costs to Australia.</para>
<para>Tonight, I want to remind my colleagues of their humanity. Only a couple of Sundays ago, fathers around Australia celebrated Father's Day. I am a proud father, as many others in this place and the other place are. I know the Prime Minister is also a proud father of two young daughters. As a father, I am fiercely protective of my children. I have taken great joy in seeing them become independent, confident adults and seeing them strive to achieve their ambitions. As a father, I cannot imagine what it must feel to be powerless to protect or to provide for your children and to have lost hope for their future.</para>
<para>I cannot begin to imagine this, but I believe it is incumbent on all of us in this place to try. Imagine your child growing up in a dusty, mouldy tent with a barren patch of dirt as a playground. Even if you are not in these tents, but living out in the community, imagine being trapped in a place year after year that you cannot call home and from which you feel you may never escape. Imagine seeing your once bright, cheerful and joyous child slowly turn into a depressed, desperate and possibly suicidal shell, their spark for life extinguished by the loss of hope. Imagine your guilt. You wanted to give them a better life; instead, you have given then hell.</para>
<para>Imagine feeling that there is nothing—not one thing—that you as a father can do to provide a safe and lasting home for your beloved son or precious daughter, nothing you can do to provide them with the sort of education and opportunities you had dreamed of and the future you had so much hoped for. Imagine that your child is forced to live in dust and dirt that is probably contaminated with toxic cadmium—because we know that Nauru has high concentrations of cadmium due to the phosphate rock deposits on the island. Imagine that your child is seriously ill and must get treatment that is not available nearby. You cannot jump into a car and drive them to somewhere that can assist. There is no-one you can call for help. There is nothing you can do but wait for some official behind a desk somewhere else to make a decision about your child, and then that decision quite possibly is no. 'No, your seriously ill child is not sick enough,' they decide, despite what doctors say. Imagine your words of encouragement and hope turning into lies as finally there is no escaping the reality that no matter how hard they might try at school or at life the fate of your child is to be nothing more than a pawn in someone's cynical political game.</para>
<para>I cannot begin to imagine the horror of being a father in these circumstances, yet this is exactly what this government is presiding over. It has the power to change this—either to bring these people to Australia or to accept New Zealand's sincere offer to resettle many of these genuine refugees. I make a simple appeal to the Prime Minister as one father to another: remember your humanity. Put their suffering above political expediency and re-election. Get these families off Nauru.</para>
<para>Senate adjourned at 22:06</para>
</speech>
</subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>117</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>117</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
    <debate><debateinfo>
        <title>DOCUMENTS</title>
        <page.no>121</page.no>
        <type>DOCUMENTS</type>
      </debateinfo><subdebate.1><subdebateinfo>
          <title>Tabling</title>
          <page.no>121</page.no>
        </subdebateinfo></subdebate.1></debate>
  </chamber.xscript>
</hansard>